Speaker 1: You know our thumbnails to just get better and better
every single week, don't they, fellas. But we are back
for another episode of Pony Express Radio. I am, of course,
mister Dhawk. I'm joined tonight by mister Pequinonez. How are you, Pete.
It's done good and we're joining uh tonight. Take take
that burden. You've stolen your number, rolling gas. You know
we're joined mister Carl daaltnight.
Speaker 2: How are you, hey, fellas. Good evening, all.
Speaker 1: Right, good to have you. Let's get some housekeeping out
of the way and then we'll get into a topic
that all of us love oh so very much, if
we get to the flex on the rest of the
anglosphere for a bit, which is always fun. So alrighty, gentlemen.
As always, it is White Boy winter. I know a
lot of people up north are in the grips of
a huge blizzard right now. Hopefully you guys got your
snow shovels out and are surviving as best you can.
But if you want to get shredded for the inevitable
return of White Boy summer, please head over to Axios
Remote Fitness and Coaching, where you two can get shredded.
When the snow's inevitably melt once again. In addition to that,
if you guys want your caffeine fix, please please head
on over to Fox and Soun's Coffee. For all of
you coffee drinkers out there, I hear it gives you
great power, But what gives me great power during this
tax season is nicotine. Oh boy, oh boy, do we
love nicotine over here at the OGEE. We are fans
of big tobacco, and mine nicotine of choice is alp
nicotine pouches. I've got one sitting in my desk in
the office right now, getting me through eleven hour shifts.
So link down on the description for your out nicotine pouches.
While you're at it. Give some patronage over to MS
Ventrillo Suits. You can always tell at any of the
OGC events who is wearing a Vendrillo suit immediately stands
out and I myself, I'm looking forward to getting fitted
for one at this year's conference. And finally gives some
patrons to our friend mister George Bagbee over at tall
Man Books. He has been doing some excellent work bringing
back some books back into print from America's history in
the eighteenth nineteen twentieth century. So be sure to give
some patronage to fellow friends. All right, gentlemen, we're here
to talk about something that you know, if you're not
if you don't own a gun, how could you call
yourself an American? Ah?
Speaker 3: Man, That's it's hard. But I mean there's a lot
of people who are just like, well, I'm happy that
you have that, right, it's kind of gay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, pretty pretty much. Well for sure, I guess
I'll just get it right in the start. I mean,
it really just is something that you just see absolutely
everywhere from a young age, whether it's in our cartoons
like Looney Tunes Gotta have guns in almost every single episode.
I mean, I was gifted a gun. I think I
was like age nine was probably the first time I
was actually gifted one. I'd been shooting, like for a
couple of years beforehand or something. Just always grew up
around guns. Never found them really to be weird. Never,
you know, really it was like scared of them or anyway.
It's just like, oh, wow, Okay, this is what we do.
We're Americas. We have guns in the house. This is
how you handle it properly. What have you so I
don't really know where somebody would even like get the start,
you know, of like getting introduced to guns in the
day and age. It's just so foreign to me to
not have them around, you know, I carry every single day.
I've had them around my entire life, go hunting all
the time, go shooting on time. Was was competition ranked
in sporting clay shooting when I was in high school.
It's just it's like as intrendsit to me is like
breathing air. You know, I don't even know.
Speaker 2: You know, the the TAC type stuff is really cool,
of course, and we all find it wonderful and know
how important it is. But you really don't get into
like serious guns pur agree until you get into distinct
types of hunting, which is just a wonderland of you know,
niche arguments among people who have, you know, very strong
opinions for a variety of reasons. And most of the
time it's like mostly in ingest, right, But when you
do pick up a for example, side by side sixteen
gauge on a twenty gauge frame and you're doing you know,
upland grouse hunts and you're scaling across boulders and stuff,
you're like, oh, this makes sense. It weighs three and
a half pounds less than that twelve gauge. It's fun.
Speaker 1: I mean, I would have never even known what a
twenty two two fifty even was unless I was out
shooting farm It's a parade dog. Oh yeah, it's just
just a gun I would have no use for. Aside
from that, it's like, oh, well, you want to shoot
the head off a parade dog three hundred yards, Well,
this is what this is going to do.
Speaker 3: It The spurgree around hunting calibers is I love it.
I could just I could just sit there and be like,
you know, I'll just start it off and it's one
of those things where I'll just throw a bomb and
step back and everything, and I just be like, if
you're not if you're not hunting with a seventy, I mean,
I don't even know what you're doing.
Speaker 1: Just going into the conversation. Is thirty out six too
much for a deer?
Speaker 3: And it's just everyone every hunter has a caliber that's
just like perfect for a deer, just perfect for a deer.
And it's like to hear the conversations. There was where
I used to where I used to work in Buckhead
in Atlanta. There was a cigar bar I used to
go into all the time, and a lot of the
guys in there were like really wealthy hunters and everything.
Like half of the time you'd walk in there, it
would just be a caliber discussion about hunting.
Speaker 1: Two seventies correct.
Speaker 3: By the way, I have a buddy who would say
seven millimeter but you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, yeah in Oregon helk, Yeah, in Oregon, they
they you know, the wisdom of using a seven mag
when that became available for elk because they're because there's
so much elk hunting up there that like the average
person got to a point where they believed he needed
a seven mag for like deer hunting. And it's like, wait,
they weighed like on the big side, they weigh like
two hundred and fifty pounds to three. I mean, there's
some there's some very large blacktail that I've encountered in
Oregon that are on the like four hundred pound side,
But like most of the time you're talking about these
like coastal deer that are like two hundred and fifty pounds,
and people are like, I need a eleven pounds seven
mag you know, or else I'm undergun.
Speaker 1: I guess I shooting his deer for four hundred fifty
yards away.
Speaker 2: Apparently, Yeah, that guy a guy who fires five rounds
first sight in, you know, at one hundred yards and
then is like, I'm ready for my my launch. Although
although I know a decent number of people that consistently
make very long shots in you know, in high country
and stuff, so I'm not poopooing those people whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Well, not to took my own horn too much last year,
but when I was on Safari, I shot a kudu
at three hundred and seventy five yards, which was nice.
Speaker 2: Nice. Now remind me where were you specifically?
Speaker 1: Was it South Africa?
Speaker 2: Oh sweet? Did you bring your own gear in?
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, one of the most nightmare countries in
the world.
Speaker 2: That was year.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no.
Speaker 1: If everyone wants to get into it, go to Tanzania.
I go to Botswana, way more chill. I wanted to
try South Africa because I had hunted at Tanzania, in Zimbabwe,
in Zambia previously, and I was like, okay, well let's
see what it's like a South Africa. And it's like,
ah no, you know what, there's other places there better.
Speaker 2: Is it just is it the hunting not is good
or is it just the anti white regime there makes
everything miserable.
Speaker 1: Definitely, the politics of the situation, and it's just it's
also just not as wild.
Speaker 2: No that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I wanted to give a try and
it did, so, you know, I got my fiel event.
Speaker 2: You know nice, that's awesome. I don't think I've ever
told you guys this before, but when I was a kid,
there's a there's a scene in my first novel where
the main character goes to the home of a very
wealthy person who lives in this neighborhood called Magnolia in
Seattle that's kind of the northwestern it's northwest of downtown,
and it's this neighborhood that was built out mostly in
you know, I don't think there's anything newer than the fifties.
I'm sure there's stuff there now where they would tear
down an old house and build some monstrosity, but there
would literally be like four and five acre places there
that my friend's grandfather had like five acres indoor pool,
and then he had a safari room because in the
fifties and sixties he did all these hunts in Africa
and Asia, and he had the front end of a
bull elephant coming out of the wall. It was like
when you're like eight, it is the sickest thing you've
ever seen. It was so cool and just the taxidermy.
And my buddy fortunately inherited some of the taxidermy, and
it's some pretty wild stuff. He like barely has room
for it, but he has. I think it's a lion
taking down at gazelle or something like that. It's pretty gnarly.
It's incredibly valuable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had the text burden and congratulate him when
he started doing his show with that leopard skin up
on the wall. So very very bad ass. If any
went in the chat is ever interested, look at some
very very cool taxidermy, head on over to the Wildlife Gallery.
They're a company up in northern Michigan that does a
lot of very very interesting indoor taxidermy pieces. And you
get really interesting you know, like whole guys put up
like entire mountains in you know, one of their trophy rooms,
and it's just like with every you know, species of
goat or wild sheep in the world, you know, just
all the top of it's like going into like a Cabella's,
you know where they have like the big mountain in
the middle of event and stuff, and it's like that's
like the crazy part, you know, when you like go
into a Capella's with somebody and you just explain to them. Okay,
so there's about you know, a million dollars with the
taxidermy in here, just in and of itself. You know,
taxa diry is not cheap.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a beautiful Cabello's very close to me that,
you know, people who aren't as accustomed to that sort
of a thing, it's really fun to take them there
just so that they can have their minds blown and
see the native fish too.
Speaker 3: Fun.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well there was there's like a
whole history around taxidermy at the turn of the twentieth century, right,
because it's not like there was zoos in every major city, right,
so people were like, oh, well, how are we going
to figure out, you know, what the what a lot
of these animals look like? Right? And a lot of
these like famous industrialists, hunters, Teddy Roosevelt being one of them,
stocked all of the museums with you know, these rooms
of animal dioramas. Were really really popular. There's some amazing exhibits.
If you guys go to like the Carnegie Museum in
Pittsburgh or the Chicago Field Museum or obviously the Smithsonian
and stuff, it's really really cool to see because it's like,
oh wow, what does this draff look like? Well, I
guess I have to see a taxi dermid one because
it's not like I could just go to the local zoom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense that the Field Museum in Chicago's amazing.
The dinosaur bone exhibit there is.
Speaker 4: It is.
Speaker 2: Anyone who hasn't been there and has a chance to go,
you should go. It's it's a incredible Yeah, very cool.
Speaker 3: Apparently apparently Orange's upset that we didn't invite him to
the gun episode.
Speaker 1: Oh well, you know, Big said, damn, he's a maybe
maybe next time, you know, speaking of the Chicago Field
Museum and guns and everything. I remember talking to Thomas
about this not too long ago, is that the lines
of Tsavo, those famous man eaters, are taxidermied. The carcasses
of those two lines in the Field Museum, they ate
like two hundred Indian workers, you know, building yea heros, Yeah, exactly,
immortalized forever. Yeah, very cool. I mean, I guess. So.
One of the other things we can talk about here
is just like, uh, we have a lot of really
cool guns throughout the history of the United States. Well there,
I mean, even if you're going back to like you know,
basic Kentucky long rifles and what have you during the
Revolutionary period, all the way up to obviously the famous
six shooters popularized in all the Old West movies. You know,
of course, the nineteen eleven and various other guns you know,
for the twentieth century. What are some that really stand
out to you guys? American firearms?
Speaker 2: Go ahead, del Oh my goodness, I could go on
and on. Colt New Service. The Colt New Service is
a large frame Colt Revolver that was in uh forty five,
Colt forty four Special, and some of some of the
other kind of turn of the century like transition from
black powder cartridges. But then the Border Patrol under Charles
Askins adopted them in thirty eight special with like a
four or five inch barrel I can't remember, and they're
they're incredibly neat and the forty five ACP the model
nineteen seventeen contribution from Colt is essentially the new service
chambered in forty five ACP using half moon cartridges or
excuse me, half moon clips for holding the cartridges, so
you would have two of those with three rounds each.
They're incredibly cool guns if unfortunately they command a major
premium now, but they're like one of the coolest, you know,
still useful, but on the vintage E side of things.
And yeah, I've I've been stalking a good example of
one because I want to do a fits and one.
You know, I'm kind of kind of retarded. So what
I want to do is I want to get one
in forty four to forty and replicate the one that
my character in my second novel had to get made
at an armory in northern Spain from basically knockoffs of
that gun that were being made in Spain and just
as a short fighting weapon because they actually had forty
four forty cartridges, which they called forty four largo in
the Spanish supply chain. Because they issued a basically a
copy of a Winchester Model ninety two lever gun in
forty four to forty to the Guardia Seville. And it's
a really cool rifle. And a lot of the ones
that you saw in the Westerns in the fifties and
sixties and into the seventies were those Spanish guns that
they're incredibly cool. I mean, it's just a copy, there's
nothing special about them, but just this whole like rocking
a kind of vintage cowboy thing in Spain is pretty
amusing when you think about the loop de lieu of
the vakro life in the New World going back to
the old world.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm gonna go with one that I know Carl
will like. It's a little out of the ordinary because
it's actually considered an FN gun, but it is definitely uh.
John Browning designed the the FN model nineteen ten baby,
which I have a nineteen. I have the nineteen twenty two,
the bigger version with some markings on it that are
highly desired. But yet that that and of course the
cult model nineteen oh three hammerless, the pocket gun, those
were just and that really sets off the uh, the
conflicts when you start getting into seven, when you start
getting into thirty two ACP and seven six seven six,
So have your h now you can start talking about
the conflictsit or to come.
Speaker 2: You know what I hate when we mentioned the Colt
nineteen oh three. A friend of mine, his family had
a cabin on a lake that was out of ways
when the place was built in the forties and then
with kind of the tech boom, it was very close
to a large campus of a large software company, and
so there were a lot of people with a lot
of money. And so the family who had inherited this
place and had it for like four generations, I want
to say, decided to sell it for just crazy amounts
of money. It made sense in terms of the fact
that the tax bill for this place became crazy and
it became a problem for them to collectively be like, okay,
we got a pony up, like, you know, fourteen grand
a year for the little little, you know, eight hundred
square foot cabin out on the lake. And anyway, so
they sold it. And the reason I mentioned the Colt
nineteen oh three is that his great grandfather had a
Colt nineteen oh three that was sitting in this safe
that the lock had been removed from or the dial
component of the lock, so it couldn't be locked for
some reason. It was this massive safe and this great
little thirty two and I had this like intuition that
I should take it and hold it for my friend
because he had all these he was for a time,
he was hanging out with some less savory characters, and
I was like, someone's gonna pill for it, and what
I want to do is give it back to him,
like after this period is done, or give it to
his his dad to make sure that like it's taken
care of. And I didn't do that, and it got
swiped like the next weekend, and I felt because I
was like, it would be wrong for me to take it,
but my my instinct was crying out to me it,
you know, take it and hold it and then give
it in a safer situation like at his house, because
my Spidey senses were tingling. But those are incredible pistols.
I will say this, I highly recommend not carrying a
cult nineteen oh three. There are famous cases of gun
riders killing themselves when they slipped out of their holsters
and had a you know, an end or an unintentional
discharge and put a flat nose, hard cast lead bullet
right through their heart, which like it happened like twice
in the one in the seventies and one in the nineties,
So like, you probably shouldn't carry those things, but they're
really cool.
Speaker 1: Are we sure wasn't making them?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just not drop safe, you know. There, it's
not it's not American, so I won't I won't talk
about it too much. But uh, Spanish automatics of varying quality.
There are a number of them that are not drop
safe also, and a lot of it is just the era.
A lot of the older guns weren't drop safe because
they had a very direct ignition system with a firing
pin and the hammer. They don't have some of the
more modern safety mechanisms. So you should be careful with
some of those old guns. But they still work, is
what I would say. And let's just put it this way.
I'll choose my words carefully. If you happen to inherit
some old guns that are that seem marginal, like they're
thirty twos or three eighties or whatever, don't sell them.
Just hang on to them. Get some ammunition for them
that you pay for in cash. That's all I'm saying.
They'll be handy someday.
Speaker 3: That's interesting because right around the time that we're talking about,
you had the the iverage, the Ivory Johnson, Harrison and
richardson Saturday Night special start coming into uh production, and
I mean really really low cost and personal defense weapons. Yes.
Speaker 2: I had a friend whose father I became very close to,
and he had he he had been a firefighter, he
was a retired firefighter after a military career, and he
had two. He had one H and R and then
another one was an Ivor Johnson, And they were about
this that the H and R was a little nicer,
surprisingly when you compare it to the later guns that
they were making in like the fifties and sixties, right,
but these older breaktop thirty eight Smith and Wesson and
thirty two Smith and Wesson's were really well made and
they're really cool. Uh and and you can still get
them for pretty cheap. They're they're not expensive, They're not
nothing you would want to carry or do anything serious with,
but they're fun.
Speaker 3: The yeah, right around right around this time, Like, did
you did you mention this Smith and Wessel Smith and
Wesson Model ten, because I mean that's like.
Speaker 2: No, but that was the.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that was the cop gun. It was
like I think pretty much most of the police departments
in the country issued Smith and Wesson Modern model tens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're really nice guns. They shoot really well.
They're they're not cheap anymore. That's that's one of the
biggest problems. But again, they're worth what you pay for them.
So if you have to pay four hundred dollars for one,
I'll leave it as is. Thirty eight special is perfectly
potent cartridge. Oh yeah, use good quality ammunition, and they'll
generally be cited into like one hundred and fifty eight
grain bullet, but you'll find like one hundred and forty
eight grain. Wad Cutter shoots really well. Again, warning, if
you start getting into this more obscure stuff and older
stuff like handloading will save your life, like nine milimeter, Like,
there's literally no point in handloading nine milimeter unless you're
just an autist, which I respect. I'm not disrespecting that.
I will say this. The guys who shoot like a
thousand rounds a month, you know, competitively, Like that's that's
when reloading nine millimeter might make sense.
Speaker 3: But I don't even know. I don't even know then, yeah, yeah, yeah,
but like for it, I don't handload anymore, but when
I did, it was mostly thirty eight three fifty seven, Yeah,
and and ten milimeter. I think ten milimeter was the
only semi auto cartridge that I handloaded because I just
wanted my own loads for those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that makes sense because it's one of those
ones that has a very it has a depth and
breadth to it, right, or if.
Speaker 1: You don't, even if you don't handload, you should at
least have some experience and what the process is like.
I mean, I don't do it personally, but a family
friend of mine has been into it for many, many
many years, you know, army veteran kind of guy. And
I remember when I was a kid growing up, I
went over to his house and he took me through
the entire process of how to do it. I was
helping them with it and everything. It's uh, I mean,
it's a very interesting process. And I can understand how
even trigger people's you know, tisms be a good hobby
to have. So everyone should at least be familiar with
the process.
Speaker 2: And I'll say this also, the cheapest thing to get
into handloading is shotshells. You can get a lee load
all too for less than one hundred bucks. And then
of course you need to get all the components for
it and everything like that, But that's really good for
making like quality hunting ammunition for a shockingly decent price.
Buckshot also like there's some there's some really great loads
that have been around for like one hundred and twenty
one hundred and forty years that you can replicate through handloading.
And like I know, like Rio Well which is a
manufacturer out of Spain, always hated their Yeah that they'll
they'll do versions of these things, but the AMO quality
isn't very good. And so like if you have it,
if you want to have like number three buck for
a twenty gauge for an auto loader or you are,
do you want to do like my preference, which is
number one buck in two and three quarter inch twenty
gauge and just tune it to be like seven seven
eighths of an ounce to announce. So it's a really
mild load, but it just hits like lightning. Because they're
thirty caliber pellets. You have to handload it to get
a quality load, and so it's really cheap and easy
to do it with like that lee load all and
it works fine. It's not what you would want to
do if you're cranking out like tons of bird shot
or doing like sporting clays competition or something like that.
Like the more automated things is the only way that
you're really going to save money in time because it's
time consuming. But when you're loading buckshot, you're literally dropping
the pellets with your hand, so you know, and so
and and there's people that also hunt in more restrictive
states where you know, it's buckshot only or buckshot or slugs,
and it's really easy to get into. Uh, and it's
and it's really fun. Like I three D printed a
bunch of components for like doing the taper on the
so after you know, if you roll crimp buckshot and
then you want to add an extra taper so that
it'll load better, and an auto loader, you get this
little extra piece that you can mount in and just
press in. And people have the design out the STL
file out there so that you can just print it
yourself and slap it in and jam it out, and
it's like, oh that you know, buying all these little components.
The prices can easily add up, But you can do
a lot of that stuff with three D printunting too.
For some of these kind of niche elements to experiment with,
so it's really fun stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Rio is just absolutely the worst. I know how
many times it's super dizzy.
Speaker 1: Oh absolute ass ammunition. Yeah, it won't cycle out of
a semiato shock and to save its life, dude.
Speaker 2: But it's like it's the only place you're going to
find certain loads, you know, because Europe is a very
especially Spain is a very shotgun oriented hunting.
Speaker 1: They do a lot of wing shooting there, a.
Speaker 3: Ton of it.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so so but but again my point was
like the quality sucks, so like that's where handloading makes
a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, I mean we're talking about here, you know,
some of our favorite American guns. But of course we
can't forget the great gun manufacturers of the United States.
Unfortunate only many of them have to move out of
their historic headquarters due to political reasons. And you know,
I remember who was it was it Smith and Wesson
or was it Remington. They got sued like in Connecticut
or Delaware because of like recent shootings or what have you.
They're like suing the gun manufacturers or something like you
guys are making guns too deadly fucking idiots. But I mean,
my household was always a Remington household growing up. So
I you know, had the eight seventy, it had the
seven hundred, had seventy eighty threes, had eleven eighty Seven's
well all of them like just a bunch of Remington guns.
And you know that company is who they get bought
out by. I totally forget who now owns it.
Speaker 3: George Soros, Yeah, zog ink basically my remins and goes
back to the model fifty one designed by the great
John Peterson. Those are awesome, Yeah, those are he get
him thirty two or three eighty, but I mean it's
three eighty even a real caliber.
Speaker 1: Come on, No, I never liked it, never like shooting
three eighty.
Speaker 2: Can can I explain my advocacy for thirty two? It
isn't that it's like the cartridge, right, Like I mean,
like my main gun that I carry as a clock
nineteen or I carry yeah, or I carry a I
have a Charter.
Speaker 3: Arms, a massive fucking faggot.
Speaker 2: I have a Charter Arms Bulldog forty four special that
I'm just absolutely in love with. I got it either
last year or the year before, and it is just
so such a great cartridge and a great little gun
but not perfect. But I've made it nice and I'm
making it better. But anyway, point being thirty two automatic
is in the in the olden days, generally the kind
of cognizanti would prefer the thirty two over the three eighty.
It's one more round. You know, the cartridge has better penetration,
so its effectiveness is way better than it's on paper figures. Right,
in terms of lethality, even in the like eighties and nineties,
you would have like Marshall and Sanao who were doing
those like one stupid one shot stop analyzes, and the
thirty two automatic in certain loadings was as good as
a lot of nine millimeters loads in terms of like
their their record. And my opinion is that you know,
it's probably people who just knew what they were doing,
and that you know, it's a low recoil cartridge and
uh so you're not going to be intimidated by it,
and you can get a little more practice in and
you know, the classic load for that. The reason I
mentioned this is that hollow points have a purpose and
the point the purpose of a hollow point is to
prevent overpenetration to where there's no energy transfer, right, But
if you just say a defensive load for a handgun
requires a hollow point, you don't understand what's taking place.
There isn't enough energy in a thirty two ACP for
a hollow point to like penetrate enough. So what you'll
find with like thirty two ACP and three eighty all
of these like marginal calibers, is that a hollow point
will you know, mushroom beautifully, but only penetrate like four
or five inches. It won't make it through like the
leather jacket or the denim or whatever. So if you
stick to the old school flatnose lead that feeds like
an FMJ, it penetrates a lot, but it doesn't match
much better job of transferring energy and doing damage versus
an FMJ which just kind of zips through. If all
you can get is a like a European pressure FMJ,
which is you're starting to see American loads now in
three thirty two acp, excuse me, that are on par
with the European loads. But for a while they were
loading about one hundred fps one hundred, one hundred and
fifty fps like lighter because of like really junkie American
guns that were being made I think it was the
Sammy speck was really mild because of trash guns, and
it's like, no, you should blow up your trash guns.
And if you shoot European pressure stuff, you'll find all
the thirty two ACP nerds are like use European pressure stuff.
Buffalo Bar has a really good cartridge, Underwood has a
great cartridge. I'm just like skip holow points and in
a thirty two ACP or like a three eighty or
something like that, I'm not talking about like a thirty
eight special plus P, like you have to analyze and
you have to look at it. And if you go
out to YouTube and you see these tests in gel
and stuff like that, you'll understand why the old advice
still carries that. With like a thirty two ACP, skip
skip the hollow point. But the other advantage of it
is that it has a very mild report, and so
if you fire it through a suppressor, you will be shocked.
And Pete can testify to this, you will be shocked
at how quiet they are. They suppressed like a twenty
two despite being kind of a real cartridge in terms
of its penetration ability, not its overall energy. I'm not delusional,
but it's shockingly quiet and.
Speaker 1: Preemptively defending yourself from the comment section. You know, it's like, oh,
well yeah, but it's.
Speaker 2: True because because it's really easy for people to be
you know, like, I'm this is my thing that I'm into,
but it's it's it's it's a marginal cartridge. I absolutely
own that. But it's really good at certain kinds of things.
And uh cia, guys would would carry them overseas because
it was like the smallest you know, you could get
these very small guns in thirty two and like with
the three eighties, the three eight versions of them that
were basically like uncontrollable, you know, too snappy, and there's
like no improvement in performance, and so by sticking with
the thirty two, it's easy to control. It's kind of
the nine millimeter argument because you know, we're all like,
if you look at nine millimeters versus forty, like that
argument is settled, Like forty is more powerful than nine millimeter,
but it's harder to shoot, it holds fewer rounds. It's
the same story just in a bigger envelope.
Speaker 1: Well, that's why I like the nineteen so much. I mean,
it's fifteen plus one.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, exactly, that's plenty exactly, and so like in
a super small gun. You know, that same kind of
argument carries. Now, do I think that that's like the
way to go if you're going into harm's way?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: Do I think it's the greatest defensive weapon. Absolutely not.
It's for like a pocket gun or something like that,
but it'll still do the thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if I'm going in a defensive situation, I want
a carbing.
Speaker 2: Exactly, a shotgun or a carbing great.
Speaker 3: And only handgun only exists to fight your way to
your rifle.
Speaker 2: It's true. It's boomer truth, but it's true.
Speaker 3: Yeah. The Yeah, I like the forty three X. You know,
if I'm going to carry a glock, I'll carry the
forty three X. But the Smith and Wesson CC nine
is I mean not the H and K CC nine
is just amazing. It's what's funny is I tried to
shoot the shadow to carry, and the Shadow to carry
had more had more musclim flip and felt recoil than
my CC nine, and my CC nine probably weighs you
know a third. Yes, yeah, of the shadow carry.
Speaker 2: I like the I like the classic CZ seventy five
eight five, But like there, their times has probably passed,
mister Burden. They're cool guns. They're cool guns, but they
are pretty hipster. It's it's funny that the HK guns
are those you know, there'll be people who pooh pooh
them because they're like, oh, you just care about that
from video games sort of stuff. But it's like, no,
they're really nice guns.
Speaker 3: They're going to be around. They'll be around for the generations.
I mean you can pass them down and pass them
down and pass them down, and people are like, well,
you know, H and K hates their customers. I'm like,
they're German, that's that's what. Yeah, you buy. It's like,
come on, we buy. Yeah. Sure, there are some people
who are gonna buy K HK is just because they
see them in a video game or see them in
a movie. They saw Collateral and of course, you know,
got to run out and get a usp but I
mean I wanted to shoot it and then talk shit,
yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: It's kind of funny now in the video game industry there,
it's like back in the day, people just weren't aware
of the fact that, oh, you know, you put your
gun in a video game or something it's advertising and whatnot,
and now like they're charging people to actually put their
guns in the various games. So they just come up
with like absolute goofball combinations of letters and numbers of
their games, but just model it. You know. It's like
the yeah, here's here's your Ka seventy three, you know
that you pick up in this game, or something that's
clearly you know, a Kalishtokov, you know. So I don't
know how much that plays these days.
Speaker 2: It's really important in terms of people getting into guns,
like a right, my dad didn't grow up hunting, but
we had like some target rifles and other things, and
so the way that I got really into them was
from like comic books and movies and just reading gun
magazines and stuff as a kid and you know, shooting
and scouting. And so my dad was like, of course,
it's totally normal. And my mom grew up kind of
a country kid, so I was able to indulge in
such things. And it's really interesting because I grew up
in this area that was like half like that and
half libtarted, and so it made for a really funny
dynamic where a lot of the you know, a fair
number of kids that I grew up with hunted and
we were like on the edge. Like I lived in
a place where my grandfather hunted when he was a kid,
when it wasn't suburbs, right, and so it made it
makes for an interesting dynamic. But like, generationally, this is
how people get into things. So I remember in the
nineties and the aughts like this, the boomers and especially
like the Silent generation type being like really off put
by people getting into guns through media. And I'm like
the Smith and Wesson Model twenty nine became a big
deal because of movies, and you're just you just have
this block that like only the media that I consume
is like the legitimate channel for getting people into these things.
It's like, no, it's gonna happen, So just relax. And
you know, it's funny because I played Goldene after already
knowing what the VZ sixty one was, which is still
one of my favorite weapons of all time, and mister
Pete's is quite nice, and it's you know, it makes
me laugh because there are all these you know, people
would call it the club and stuff when I'm like, yeah,
but look at all the people who got into guns
playing these games. They're fun. You know. It's like people
who go into the military because they played video games
and shooters and stuff, and they're like, this is awesome.
I want to do this.
Speaker 3: There's there's a lot of good clob videos on on
YouTube where they explain how it is just the bad
guy gun like there. You you try to find a
movie where there's a good guy.
Speaker 1: With the like the like the styr Og and die Hard.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I wanted an h I wanted an HKP seven. I mean,
I know, I know Hans is carrying an M thirteen,
but I wanted a P seven just because I saw
it die Hard.
Speaker 2: Oh of course, it's totally It's totally normal. That's how
you just get exposed to these things.
Speaker 3: I think I think the price of Mind has doubled
since I bought it. I think I could sell it
for like double what I bought.
Speaker 2: I believe it. I believe it. Remember when they were
the the the German police ones. Because again the German police,
is it a is it provincial? I forget what their
districtingness called, whether it's a province or whatever, but they
they would different provinces or whatever. The German tripology apologies people,
they would buy different weapons, and they had a German
uh military and police trials in the in the early eighties,
and the police went with single stack nine millimeters and
that's where like the cool guns of the eighties came
out of, like is people developing weapons for these military
trials or these police trials, and so you would see
the different versions. The military trials would be the double
stacks and the police trials would be the single stacks.
And that's where you get the HKP seven m A.
That's where you get the like, what are some other ones.
There's the SIG two twenty five, which is the single
stack nine millimeters.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I had one weight I had one when
they were three hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And you know what I would say is
like I don't like SIGs, but they shoot really well.
Speaker 3: Like there's something got rid of all my I got
rid of all my Sigsay, I got rid of all
my SIGs on this on on all this shit that
happened in the past couple of years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they're they're they're very high quality. They're
too heavy. It's like the bore axis feels like extremely high,
but they still shoot. Well. Yeah, they're just bulky and big.
Speaker 1: Again. I mean everyone everyone wants to, you know, dig
on the glocks, doll. But hey, you know what, I
think they are great.
Speaker 2: They are. They're the AK forty seven of handgun for
a reason.
Speaker 1: Yep, very true.
Speaker 2: I recommend you stop being such a.
Speaker 3: Fagging all right, that's it, that's hilarious. No, I mean
I have I like to carry the the forty three X.
It just I mean, it feels so good and it's
in the hand and like all the police around here,
that's their backup weapon, is a forty three X. It's
just if it's good, if it's so well, and everybody's
saying it's ten rounds, nine millimeters, single stack. I mean,
it's just it feels great.
Speaker 2: I've not had any will say.
Speaker 1: The one thing I will say is that glock triggers
are just absolute ass.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: You have to have to be after market. You need
to you have.
Speaker 3: Or you can you can do the polish, the old
trick of changing the disconnector and the like return spring
to get that sweet spot.
Speaker 2: And but yeah, no, I get it. I get it.
My wife, Like my wife has a forty three, and
I think it's really cool. It's a little too small
for me. Forty three X is beautiful, forty eight it's beautiful.
Nineteen is a brick, but it works, so I don't care.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the seventh this by seventeen. If you want to
get an FRT.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, well, here's the other thing too that
we can talk about with this is that, you know,
just everyone just just carry appendix. You know, you can
hide a much bigger gun on your person, like a
nineteen or something if you're carrying appendix. I mean, I
know when everybody first starts off with like over, you know,
I'm a little nervous about having a gun that close
to my dick, but you know, it's it'll be fine, dude.
Speaker 2: To carry a three twenty and you'll be fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, eventually you'll get away from the four o'clock hold
or you know, just I'm still amazed. How would you
guys still think like, oh, you know what, I'm just
going to carry small the back.
Speaker 3: It's like, dude, come on, I am, I am too
old to get away from the four o'clock. I'm sorry,
just way too old. I mean, all my training, like
literally my hand that's where my hand goes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I guess I'm the odd man out here.
Speaker 1: Too bad.
Speaker 2: And when you become old and develop a tummy, the
behind the hip is especially. I like, I have a
friend who, even working construction, has carried like and what
I would do is like working in offices and stuff,
I would have to you know, down gun or I
would you know, have to work around things based on
how I was dressed right and so you know, you
carry whatever is appropriate. And he would always carry a
compact double stack whatever. And he would AIWB for a
really long time, like literally crawling around in these construction
sites building stuff carrying AIWB. And he got to the
point where he was, you know, left that work and
he was like, I got I got too much of
a gut. I'm back behind the hip and I'm much happyer,
and I'm like, okay, gotta do what you gotta do.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 1: I inherited a shoulder holster from my grandfather. Don't really
have anything that fits it. But no, they're interesting. It's
a cool idea.
Speaker 3: I will say this. I am somebody who forever and
ever and ever just swore off nineteen elevens until you
shoot a nineteen eleven and nine milimeter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep.
Speaker 3: And then it's over and people go, oh, well, if
you're gonna shoot a nineteen eleven in nine millimeters, why
don't you just get a high power. It's like I
have two. It's not the same, Believe me, it's not
the same. I mean, I love high powers. High powers
is I think Carl and I were talking one time.
It was like ninety five percent of the men in
the world, like the high power fits just perfectly. Yes, yes,
no matter what size you are, anything, you know, it's
just it's just perfect. But a night but like a
good cult nineteen eleven nine millimeter with the Cobra grips
from the movie Cobram. Yeah, yeah, that's I'm sorry, it's
a meme. Gun. I don't care.
Speaker 1: Well, everybody's gotta have some, right, I mean, I'm at
this point where it's like I I just know that
within the next ten years I'm going to inherit something
like fifty So I'm like, I don't want to buy
anything else anymore.
Speaker 2: Now that makes sense. Yeah, I have to tell you, guys.
My grandfather's commercial cult commercial government model, made in nineteen
twenty four, burned up in the Paradise, California fire, and
my uncle was going to give it to me because
his son would would have just pawned it. I got
him some nice grips for it, because my granddad actually
carried this thing. After World War Two. He came home
and he saw it in a in the window of
a pawn shop and was like, I'm going to buy
that because the you know, military issue once are just
rattle traps and they're going to be a dime a dozen,
and this thing will always be super high quality because
they were hand fitted and everything. And so he bought
it for fifty bucks, which was like a pretty substantial
amount of money at the time for a pistol. It
was I think he said it was like two weeks
wages for the job that he got afterwards in a
in a foundry and yeah, and that was his piece
and it was absolutely gorgeous. He had pack myer grips
on it that he put on in the late sixties
because he carried it when he would motorcycle around.
Speaker 3: And he.
Speaker 2: Gave it to my uncle and it burned up in
the Paradise fire, and I was just like, Dah, the
saddest thing is that and then his wife's Colt python
made in the seventies burned up also, like they had
like thirty minutes to get out of town when the
wind shifted, and like all these heirlooms of all kinds
burned up, and it was just like, oh, that's brutal,
Like literally money cannot replace those things.
Speaker 1: Now, why don't we shift to the conversation a little
bit here to the political I mean, I know that
over the last couple of years, in particular, especially after
twenty a lot of people have discussed in the broader
right wing sphere about the actual utility of the Second
Amendment right And I do have to say my opinion
has shifted on this quite a bit as I've aged,
you know, definitely growing up from like the classic boom
Er con household and talking points of well, eventually someday,
you know, because the right wingers have all the guns,
everything's just going to be over YadA YadA, YadA. Uh huh.
I mean, I guess, like you, what can really be
said at this point? Then I'm glad that we have it.
I think the best utility it has at this point
is being able to stop you mall from stealing your bike.
But you know, as it relates to actually shrinking the
power of the state and the government, I think it's
kind of obvious at this point the Second Amendment is
just not fit for that purpose. But either way, people
shouldn't have guns, people should train with guns, people should
know how to use them. If you're an American man,
you absolutely should should own them. What do you fellas think?
Speaker 3: Got Carl?
Speaker 2: Okay, I will choose my words carefully on paper. It
is a both collective and individual right, and if we
turn it into merely an individual right, it really loses
its teeth. You also have hundreds of years of militia
laws and things of that nature that make it to
where you have to be very careful about the way
that you talk about things. And I just want to
send this out there into the ether for everyone. You
and your friends, even if you are tempted to have
names for things, or you're part of a group let's
say that has a name, you never as a collective
participate in certain types of activities. You as individuals can
go together to do safety training or whatever. But that's it,
because that's how that's how they get you by people
talking like they're super cool. And everything like that. There's
also an old argument that the left gets in trouble
by committing crimes and the right would get in trouble
by acquiring cool stuff that they were entrapped into. And
so like, there's no such thing as deals out there.
You know, do everything above board and follow all laws carefully.
That's my rant on the subject.
Speaker 3: Second, yeah, I would say that, living where I live,
and knowing the crime statistics of certain towns, I would
say that the and then looking at the demographics of
a town. So in Alabama, you can have a town
of say three thousand, and there'll be seven hundred people
in it from a you know who took boat rides here.
Let's just let's say that their family took boat rides here,
and there really aren't a lot of problems. There may
be some problems every once in a while between them
and each other, but they pretty much know what they're
surrounded by. And that's what people don't. People don't get,
you know that when they think about this out they're like, oh,
there's a lot of black people down there. Okay, yeah, yeah, Birmingham,
you have Birmingham, you got Atlanta, you got you know,
all been in Georgia places like that. Of course it's
Tuskegee here, and but when it comes to places where
you know, it's not ninety eight percent that class. Yeah,
but you the things are pretty calm, pretty calm. You're
you're not You're pretty much not worried about about anything.
You happen to leave your door, leave your door unlocked
when you go to when you go to sleep, when
you wake up and realize you kept your door unlocked,
you're not worried. I think a lot of that has
to do with the fact that there's a lot of
fucking guns here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they know they'll get so last Wow, there was
there was a There was a case, and I think
this was as late as the late nineties, one town
over from where I grew up, where my grandmother had
spent her childhood and or some portion of her childhood,
and a ne'er do well from an urban center, an
urban ute, two urban utes decided that they were going
to go into this community based on some intel they
got from I don't know who, probably someone doing some
work and robbed the place, and the homeowner shot one
of them in the back with a colt python in
the backyard, and the local prosecutors were like word word son,
and like that probably wouldn't fly now given the county
that it's in, But you know that that is true.
That's the traditional the traditional standard that you know, governed
America and Western Europe is that you do not mess
with a man's castle and if you do, their consequences
for it. And so I feel like the people that
poo poo the Second Amendment are basically just racist libtards
a lot of the time, and they're kind of kind
of gay because it's like, no, like I understand some
of their point. The argument is like everyone having to
carry a gun isn't cool. It'd be better if you know,
scumbags weren't on the street. I agree completely with that. However,
you know, if if you pooh poo it too much, yes,
from a political perspective, so far is it, you know,
is it influencing things? No? But let's just talk about
something that Pete and I are pretty well versed in,
which is the Spanish Civil War. In Spain, they had
to like go overseas to buy right bolt action rifles
for their the the Spanish patriots from among the population
who made themselves available to the army. I noticed how
I avoid certain trigger words because I'm not retarded. That's
that's like a total non issue in America. That's like
an absolute non issue. So just just putting that out there, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean there's there's definitely some good points to be
made there for sure. I mean, yeah, well just look
at the old atage, right. Better to have it and
not need it than need it and not have right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And and another thing is that you'll remember from
like the nineties and the oughts. And again I understand
where where people think this is corny because it hasn't
played out too often, but every once in a while
it does. Remember that people saying, you know, there are
millions of deer hunters in America who have experienced pulling
the trigger out to three hundred yards, right, And it's true,
it's very true. It just hasn't become a thing yet.
Speaker 1: But I mean there's more deer hunters in the Midwest
than all of the world's armies combined.
Speaker 2: It exactly exactly. And so like if you think about
it that way, like that is a that is a capability,
and that capability doesn't matter unless it's like organized, you know,
the bundle of sticks with the axe head sticking out
of the top, right, Like, you have to be part
of a culture, in a society with hierarchy to be
able to do things like that. And you know, the
nice thing is that, you know, maybe there's opportunity for
it being taken advantage of by lawful authority, lawfully legal
authority with shiny badges.
Speaker 1: Exactly legal. Yes, Oh yeah, it really, really really is
a rich topic. You can go many different directions with,
whether it's the hunting, whether it's the competition shooting, whether
it's the plethora of gun tubers, the not gay ones
you know.
Speaker 3: Which, you know, yeah, it is kind of crazy that,
I mean, we the average person can have weaponry on
par and even better than some of the military weaponry. Yeah,
you just in most in a lot of cases, you're
going to have to pay for it. You know, you
pay out the ass for it if you want. If
you want to start playing with short barrow rifles and
short barrow shotguns and suppressors, you're gonna have to do
NFA stuff. You know, you don't have the two hundred
dollars anymore, but you know it's there and you know,
believe it. Thinking that, oh, well, everything I have. No
one knows what I have because I bought everything private sales.
They know what you have. You wondn't be able to
bury them in the backyard. They can. They can actually
find that ship.
Speaker 2: You're buying Ammo, your you're mail ordering Ammo with credit
cards and debit card.
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, our favorite woman in the chat, Don Browning,
is just bringing this up right now down an old
oz saying we can't have loaded firearms in the home
or while in transit.
Speaker 1: We have to have separate lock boxes. I mean, just
not having to deal with all that faggoty bullshit like that.
Well ish, can you imagine Can you literally imagine someone
trying to tell me, no, you can't have a loaded
firearm in your house at any time?
Speaker 3: Fuck you, dude. We can have we can have MP fives,
we can have you know, l mts, we can have
we can have agent K rifles that are just as
good as you know, the one that allegedly killed Saddam
I mean Osama bin Laden. I don't believe that story
for a fucking second, but I mean, we can have
all the quality that military has, and do I think
that the reason why the government hasn't gone like completely
like you know, black bagging people, black bagging masses of
people because people do get black bagged by the government,
but black bagging masses of people because of because we
have weaponry. No, we just don't have a government that
knows how to function. You should be happy about that.
I mean, it just it just doesn't work. It's you know,
they can target like one person or group here and there,
but for the most part, they're they don't even have
the budget to like police all of the all of
the dispensaries in like Orange County, California, couldn't do that
in a year with their budget. So that's a good point.
You know, we you know, if you have this stuff,
if you know, if you have you know, quote unquote
military type weapons, I mean there you know, could come
a day societal breakdown. A lot of people in Minneapolis
could have probably used some, you know, people in other
areas probably could have used some at different times. But
you know they're there, you know, they're just it's it's
nice to know. It's nice to know it's there. Yeah.
And they're fun, Yeah, they're fun as fun. Yeah, once
you start shooting suppressed, you don't want to shoot unsuppressed anymore. Oh. Absolutely,
if you can get if you can get your your
set up to the point where you can shoot outdoors
without without ears, I mean love, I mean it's so
much fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean it's it's funny. Like you know,
obviously when you go out hunting and such. You know,
it's not like you're bringing your headphones out when you're
out in the field or what have you. So once
you've been through the process a few times of the
ear ringing, you know, you're like, I don't want to
deal with this ever again, which just puts it in
the context of, you know, no wonder everybody came back
from all these wars completely fucking death.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 3: There's and there's so many electronic earbuds now where you
can shoot. You could fucking shoot, you know, forty five
seventy government and be talking to your buddy without taking
them off. I mean, it's the technology is there. I
mean you could you can get those for sometimes less
than sixty bucks.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I got Walker electronic ear muffs. I yeah, the stereo
ones for thirty five dollars each.
Speaker 3: Like they have Bluetooth.
Speaker 2: A couple of Christmases ago. I think they do have
bluetooth and.
Speaker 3: Listen to music while you're shooting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, it's crazy. And so my my son
early on, like he liked shooting, but he hated the
noise and he hated the hearing protection and like with
the bulky analog stuff, but then using a nice compact
electronic ear muffs with full caliber stuff, he absolutely loves it.
And the first time, you know, he shot prone and
you know, at a at one hundred yards. You know,
it wasn't like a group that you would write home about,
but he kept them all in like a you know,
four inch circle. He was like, oh my god, and
he holds up the paper and he holds it against
his chest and he just started laughing because he was like,
this isn't hard, and it's like and then he realized
how much of a skill it was to like learn, like, yeah,
it's not that hard, but you can get better and
better and it gives you something to focus on and
it's a whole discipline, but it's actually useful because then
you can use it for all these other things.
Speaker 5: So, yeah, I had a a suggestion for people because
I know the conversation comes up a lot about teaching
your your wife, your girlfriend to shoot and.
Speaker 3: Handguns. You can usually figure something out pretty good and everything,
but it's not always that a woman can handle, like
an ar or something like that. If you're you know,
if you want to get you know, if you want
her to have more rounds than a hunting rifle or
something like that, I'm telling you the PS ninety, the
f NPS ninety is perfect for a woman. That means
it is so perfect. Look, I can short barrel, ten
inch barrel. I can handle it with one hand. I
can literally maneuver it with one hand, raise it up,
raise up, get zero with one hand with one arm.
I mean, it's it's perfect for a woman. I was
talking Stormy about that. We were we were on a
video and I was like just showing him and he's like, oh,
this is like that is like the perfect thing for
a woman, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, I mean it's
waist less, I think loaded, you know, even with the
fifty round mag and you throw even if you throw
a little suppressor on it, it's not six pounds.
Speaker 2: That's crazy. That's awesome. Fifty rounds. And again it's a
miniaturized version of the five five six cartridge. Yes, I know,
but it's essentially a miniaturized version of it with like
the lightest bullet that you can get, but like fifty
rounds of it, And the idea is that you're not
shooting it past like personal defense distances one hundred and
fifty two hundred meters.
Speaker 3: The FN rounds that come in the red box, they're
about a dollar around. They're twenty seven grain. Check the
ballistics videos on them.
Speaker 2: Yea.
Speaker 3: They enter and go immediately go up like they enter
the like no matter where you shoot it, in the
in the jel, in the gelatine, it shoots up straight
up at the top. I think about what that's going
to do to a body. I mean, it's pretty wild.
And then you have different like some companies have made
different I have a thirty six grain copper copper hollow
point that I mean like will will penetrate and mushroom
like crazy, and it'll penetrate like twenty inches and just
mushroom like fucking just yeah. Yeah, So that I just
wanted to say that because you know, Stormy and I
were brainstorming on that and it was and I was like,
this is just a perfect weapon for a woman, and
I think it was you know, when you when you
know the history of the of the platform and what
it was designed for. It was designed for Belgians who
they thought that during the Cold War the Soviets would
would invade. It was basically it was designed for every like.
I think they said they wanted they wanted a ten
year old to be able to operate it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was untrained troops or like,
barely minimal familiarization required for it.
Speaker 3: To be he jects the rounds down if you shoot
it suppressed, it ejects the gas down. It's yeah, there's.
Speaker 2: Which is a big deal.
Speaker 1: It reminds me of that line in a Board of
War the the Cage movie is like the AK forty seven,
so simple a child could use it, and they do.
Speaker 3: He jects the cases down before some pedant autist tells me,
comes in and says, you said he juxt the rounds down.
But yeah, I can't I can't say enough about how
much fun that thing is to shoot, especially the short barrel.
I mean, it's come on, you're in a fucking video game. Yeah,
Adam said, it's ambidexterous too. I mean it's Yeah. The
only thing you gotta do is it's the the rail
sits a little high. You just get rid of the
take the rail out, get an adaptor, and then you
can pretty much you can put a red dot in it.
It works perfectly.
Speaker 2: Fun.
Speaker 1: Man, we could just be here for hours, couldn't we.
Speaker 3: We haven't even started talking about MP five k's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that's one of Charlemagne's favorites, good old five. Yeah.
The ones that are suppressed twenty two shy. I could
just shoot them literally all day.
Speaker 3: I had, you know, believe it or not, I had
a Glock nineteen, a Gen three it was. It was
OD and I had it set up suppressed and with
a really inexpensive It was the first suppressor I ever got.
It was Huntington Arms Guardian nine. Like after the first shot,
all you heard was the what was the slide right
racking with one for seven grain or one fifty eight
grain eight grain SMB. Yeah, wonderful, so much fun, so
much fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's when you get in to the point when
an actual gun starts to sound like a BB gun. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Like, well, I mean some of the five to five
six suppressors now are really really good, like the Lazara six. Yeah,
the Lazarus six. Oh my goodness. It's like when you
look at the noise reduction on that, holy crap, even
on ten even on ten and a half eleven inch barrels,
and they're small.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like with the laser metal centering, it's they're so
small and you can have this complex geometry that is
like non machineable.
Speaker 3: It's reallys Yeah, the baffles on the on the last
Verus six or three D three D printed with what's
the metal they use? They use the same metal they Yeah,
they use it on the afterburners on F thirty five
or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing, that's what That's what everything is now. If
you if you notice almost all the new companies are
doing laser metal centering or whatever the term is. I'm
sure I'm butchering it. But like in Canel and titanium
and stuff like that, and you can do multi metal
laser centering so that you can have some of it
be like more of it be titanium and some of
you know, just the blast baffle and certain components be
in canal to save money. But yeah, it's it's really wild.
And yeah, that's where just the proliferation and the technology.
My argument is that you know, the people who are
worried about you know, I'm in a state that was
recently totally captured by libtards and they're pushing all this
gun control and yeah, but if you look at the
federal level, the deregulation that is taking place, where they're
just throwing in the towel on a lot of this
stuff because we have technological workarounds, plus inflation, and we
also have you know, enough advocacy in the Congress to
get for example, these the NFA tax removed for suppressors
short brailed rifles and short brailed shotguns to where those
things are going to be most likely by the end
of the year be thrown out as even an entire category,
because it's you know, the NFA was only justifiable in
nineteen thirty four because of Congress's ability to impose taxes
on interstate trade. So it'll be really interesting to see
what happens there. But I just don't I don't worry
about it. I don't have this negative perspective that a
lot of these people do because of that, because I
think we're just it's just seems inevitable to me that
they're just not going to be able to control things.
You can't stop the signal. Like Washington and California and
New York are trying to pass restrictions on three D
printer manufacturers that would stop them from making gun components.
And there's a company in Spain that is basically saying,
we can tell if a component is in violation of
these things or not. And it's like that doesn't make
any sense, Like it's not enforceable. You know, you can
you can claim it, you can try it, you can
say this stuff is illegal, but you're not going to
stop it. It's just impossible. And so there, I sincerely
believe that just non compliance and proliferation is what you do,
and you just develop an adversarial relationship with your government.
I'm not saying violate the law. I'm saying that's the
trend in society. Like if you look at like weed
restrictions in America, like they end up legalizing weed a
bunch of places, and then they kind of de facto
criminalize it in others unless it's over certain amounts because
they're like it's just everywhere, and like we can't just
lock everyone up for it, and so you know, they
have to start see.
Speaker 1: How they lost the war against weed.
Speaker 2: That's exactly it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean as much as like we Yeah, I mean,
obviously it's the topic that nobody here is a fan of, obviously,
the proliferation of weed in all our city smelling. But
I mean, yeah, they lost it just simply because it's
just completely unenforceable.
Speaker 2: It's completely unenforceable.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's like to the point where, you know, the
printing technology is just so accessible now. I mean I
was over at a friend's house not too long ago
and showed me like in depth about how you can
get yourself kitted out and for not even like a
thousand bucks and you're basically just like an arms dealer
in your house. Yes, it's just it's just impossible at
this point, it's just not able to do it.
Speaker 3: You know what's fucking crazy is that last or six
where it uses Hanes two eighty two alloy and they
three D printed that. Hanes three eighty two alloy is
used in boiler and steam turbines up to fourteen hundred
degrees Fahrenhead. I mean, that's think about that. What do
you what do you have to do to break that?
You what are you gonna have to do to fuck
that up? And they're three they're using that, their three
D prints with that, and you.
Speaker 2: Can't over and you don't say exactly that. The people
who don't understand technology don't understand that any limitations that
you attempt to impose on this screws everything about you know,
manufacturing in America. So the Feds aren't gonna allow it
because they're going to be like, oh, you're going to
impose for some stupid reason, you're gonna have some proprietary
company in Spain that's going to tell you if you
can print shit or not, like when we need to
like reindustrialize America. There's it's not going to happen. It's
not going to happen. It's it's completely absurd. They just can't.
They just can't do it.
Speaker 1: I Mean, what's interesting about this too is that this
actually was kind of quietly going away on like a
lot of the left wing platforms yescent times, until like
this Virginia thing, which just came out of nowhere. Dude,
you know, it's like, oh, okay, we're just gonna try
and band guns from the entire state, and I'm no
expert in the one. You know, people can go listen
to Burden on this one. I'm sure he's got a
lot to say about this, But I found that one
very very bizarre because it wasn't even something like Kamabla
brought up at all, Like in the twenty twenty election
really didn't bring up guns much. This is kind of
one of those things that has actually gone our way
at least since I've been alive. Like the people point out,
like the concealed carry maps all over, So, I mean, yeah.
Speaker 3: Another cool thing is when you start getting into suppressors
and stuff, a very cool like, yeah, it's just a
bonus of it. Most of them are made in the
United States. Yeah, yeah, you're you're getting stuff that's made
in the United States. So I mean you can look
that stuff up of course when you're when you're ordering it.
But yeah, I mean, like, I don't think I have
a suppressor that isn't made in the United States. Yeah,
they're just yeah, it's it's a game over for them.
I mean you Wilson basically destroyed them. Yeah, when he
released all of those those files and then he came
out with the what the hell is the name of that, uh,
the CNC machine he.
Speaker 2: Is Gunner, which is simple C n C, yeah, desktop,
C and C, which is like like cost more than
everything else that's coming out now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but it's insanely simple. You hook it, you
hook it up to a laptop and then basically boom,
you just hits. It does everything for you. It's basically automated,
and it's fucking nuts. Man cats out of the bag.
Speaker 2: People from the bag cats out of the bag. And
that's that's the The number one thing is that we
can like one of the things that people worry about
in terms of like AI and you know, just the
blowing up of a lot of the kind of white
collar class. I I have a different perspective on that
topic despite being a person in the impact zone of
such things, is that what it means is you're just
not gonna have large companies that are going to need
lots of people to do that kind of work anymore.
But with these new tools, you're empowered like never before
to punch way above the weight of just a single person.
Emily Yukas just put out it insanely hilarious, just on
the nose. Will stancel show episode that is genius, but
using a technology that the way she frames it, it's
like having an animation studio and her having a budget
to pay, like an animation studio in Korea to do
all the work, but she can do it herself, one
person and pay a little bit of money for like
server time. And that applies to manufacturing, which applies to
guns in the Second Amendment. So like to your point, Pete,
on the federal level, it's over. It's just deregulation. So
we are going into this system of de facto state,
the states deciding how they're going to do things. And yeah,
it might suck to deal with some of the stuff
for a while, but I honestly think a lot of
that is going away. I think they're just not going
to be able to do it. I mean, don Quavius
can spray the hood with his P eighty you know
kit with a switch that he ordered from wish dot com,
and that's totally fine. From the perspective of the Feds,
it's it's it's over, and it's like it's going to
take some time to get there. Our our our producer
points out in chat that g OA in West Virginia
is pushing a bill to sell new machine guns through
state gun stores. Interesting, So my guess is that that's
based on uh manufacturers selling only in state so that
it's not federally regulated, uh, you know, by interstate trade.
I think this is an old tactic that people had
been planning to attempt, and so they'll be going for it.
Speaker 3: The argument against it people are making is the same
old argument, Well, people can just take it over state lines.
I mean, anyone who has an SBR in the NFA
through the NFA knows it before you take it. At
the state lines, you have to you'll fill out a
form to say exactly where you're going. You don't have
to do that for suppressors, but you have to do
it for SBRs. Most of the people who are going
to be able to buy these things and afford these things,
or law abiding citizens who are going to who would
do that if they were taking it, if they had
to take it somewhere, and they would know the law
about where they're taking it. Believe me, when I drive,
the only reason I have a permit in my state,
which is constitutional state, is because I go to the
surrounding states and the surrounding states want you to have that.
I know which states don't reciprocate. I don't take a
weapon there.
Speaker 2: Yep, it's here's another thing that's related that I know
that Pete is familiar with fixed reset triggers and super safeties.
So for our listeners who aren't aware, these are devices
that operate in such a fashion that the federal government,
through the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, recognizes
these things as operating as semi automatic weapons based on
the language of the National Firearms Act of nineteen thirty four,
which defines what is a machine gun versus what is
semi automatic, And they're essentially drop in components that either
have a reset that takes place in the trigger mechanism
engaging with the bolt, or like a lever. The super
safety is a lever on the safety where there's a
camming action against the bolt and if you fire them,
you can actually feel that. You're like, oh, if I
hold it down hard all the way so that it
my finger prevents it from resetting, it'll only fire one round.
Thus its semi automatic. So you have to have this
light touch to allow the system to literally push the
trigger forward to a full reset and because you're holding it,
it'll break and fire.
Speaker 3: So they basically made it a bump like bumpfire.
Speaker 2: Correct, but it's internal to the gun. And the ATF
lost a multi year lawsuit against a company called rare
Breed Triggers, which who.
Speaker 3: Based are Triggers are amazed.
Speaker 2: They are, But I have to do my I have
to state that rare Breed Triggers, as part of this lawsuit,
was required by the ATFOT listen to how much sense
this makes. This is a This took place under the
Biden administration. Do I think would be wildly different given
the leadership of the at under the Trumpet Trump administration.
Probably not. But they got an exclusive basically an exclusive
right to sell a drop in you know, like pretty
much fully semi automatic is the joke trigger component. And
then they were required as part of their winning this
lawsuit by the ATF or the settlement associated with it,
I should say, to aggressively pursue, like legally, anyone who
would attempt to infringe upon them, being the sole distributor
of these things. Well, the fellow who invented mister Hoffman,
the fellow who invented the super Safety put it out
there into the public domain. Someone else put a basically
fraudulent patent on his invention with a the one year
discretionary period and then sold it to the people who
basically this organization that owns rare breed triggers, and they
go around as patent trolls, suing anyone who would make
something that even comes close to this functionality basically at
the behest of the ATF to try to shut them down.
And so there are multiple class action lawsuits going on
against them right now, and essentially it's extremely likely that
the that the fraudulent patent is going to get thrown
out as well as some of the other patents. So
if people people have want to participate in this, there
they are a couple of funds out there for people
to donate to, again through Hoffman who's on X and
then some other groups are also fighting for their own
super safety businesses and it's very expensive. I'm aware of
a person who has spent more than ninety thousand dollars
on this fight and it's still ongoing. So personally, I
would recommend that people not support rare breed Triggers, although
the pieces that they make are very high quality. It's
interesting that part of their argument in the courts was
that because they charged four hundred and fifty dollars, which
is like three hundred plus dollars of pure profit according
to them, according to the lawsuit. You know, it being
more expensive is good from some legal perspective because it
restricts who has access to it rather than it being
some you know, rather than it being about them like
owning this invention, because they're totally unrelated mechanisms. So that's
something that will play itself out soon. And my reason
for going into all this is again, this is another
situation where just like shoulder braces, which were a workaround
excuse me, arm braces, it's basically a folding stock, but
it was legal to add it because certain aspects of
stock features are not there others are. But because of
equal protection, combined with you know, making allowances for disabled people,
you can create this new class of things. And so
that is like the root of getting the short barrel
rifle and short barrel shotgun restriction basically thrown away from
the NFA because it became unenforceable through again propagation of
these workarounds. So keep working on things and keep legally
challenging the restrictions on what you can access. And maybe someday,
maybe someday, we'll be able to have unrestricted access to
other things. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Alright? Any well, with that chance, when we tackle these
super chats, and we'll call it a we'll call it
a night. Hey, always a fun discussion talk about the
oldest and noblest of American pastimes. I would say, starting
from the top, we got solid snake. This man knows
his guns absolutely so he's stuck behind enemy lines once
again with his suppressed handguns underneath his cardboard box. To
bring us the first super chat the evening, he says
to us, for five bucks, evening, gents, I've had the
pleasure to shoot some cool guns in my short life
so far, MP five, SML, E Grand and some others.
Here's hoping that someday I could walk into my local
store and buy an automatic submachine gun at normal prices.
Salute four of Americans, and they may be coming sooner
than you think. My friend, we'll see Wolfgang for fifteen bucks,
says salute the OGC. Down with the man flew, but
I'm here anyway. Damn all right? Well, well, forty Americans. Yes,
and you indeed are real American airmic discourse for five bucks,
I prefer tacos in tequila after my hunting trips. Salute
three of Americans. Yes, you are real American, sir, Wolfgang
again of four five bucks. The state of Iowa mandates
three to fifteen minimum. Thirty thirty and thirty odd six
are out of here. I'm assuming he's talking about for deer.
Speaker 2: I think that they require like the straight case weirdo
rounds that are very cool.
Speaker 1: Mhm.
Speaker 2: But niche Oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he says, and then next super chat, this is
for deer hunting. Yeah, I assumed as much. Alrighty seasider
for ten bucks sends us a salute as he does
every week. Thank you very much, sir, you're a real American.
Three Americans. Yeah, there we go, Real Americans. Ex comer
for five bucks is thirty two ACP and there you go.
And you just know there's gonna be so many people
in the comment section at the end of this one.
I mean Americans, Yeah, yeah, yeah, real Americans. Indeed, let's
see Darryl armantrout for five bucks says va here lost
all or Virginia, Virginia here lost all my good stuff
in a voting accident. Yeah, yeah, yep, stay strong there, boys,
Stay strong. Christopher Burkes sends us five bucks and a salute,
thank you very much for American Yes, real American. City
Break Dancer Man, always one of the funniest names in
the chat for five bucks, also sends us a salute
for real Americans. Yeah, real Americans. Balero three nine three
and old Head for five bucks says can't wait until
victory when American schools will teach pistol and rifle marksmanship,
Brazilian jiu jitsu, and hunting skills as mandatory high school
credits today. Yeah, all right, Blero three nine three again
for five bucks. Future American history classes will include practice
with historical weapons and tax and tactics while students learn
about the wars in which they were used. Yeah, that'd
be cool. It's like, yeah, you guys are going to
re enact a colonial militia in South Carolina and you're
going to watch Mel Gibson's The Patriot. Yeah, Hammer Rain
for ten bucks says Trimming two to three brass to
reload three hundred blackout has been of my favorite things
to teach my sons. Carl, what's a good defense round
for bears?
Speaker 2: Heaviest, uh, basically the heaviest, flattest nose that'll work with
exposed lead. You want maximum penetration, but allowing it to mushroom,
not just FMJ.
Speaker 3: Buffalo Boar has a couple uh yeah, forty four mag
rounds that are that are great for bear. He's actually
they actually have one that he says he's taken a
bear down with one of his nine millimeter one of
his nine milimeter loads.
Speaker 1: Damn.
Speaker 3: It's like you shoot a buffalo Boar. I like my
Carl told me about this Petey from my P thirty two.
It's like a plus P plus there's a there's a
black guy doing a ballistics a ballistics jelvit on it
on YouTube. It is by far the deepest penetrator of
any thirty eight thirty two ACP that I've seen.
Speaker 1: The only only bear I've ran into in the States
was I was at a bachelor party and we were
staying in a cabin in the middle of rural Pennsylvania.
I was walking down a trail after a night of
drinking and there was a black bear on the trail
and quickly took off, So that was that was cool
to see. You know, the brown bears definitely aren't as
common as they used to be in the lower forty eight,
but they're making it come back in some areas.
Speaker 2: They reintroduced grizzly bears to my family grouse lands about
two years ago, and I'm honestly like, I don't even
want to camp up there anymore.
Speaker 1: Gotta be careful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all.
Speaker 1: Right, all right where we leave off here, I'm supper incredulous.
For three bucks and a truly free country, I would
be free to hunt Canadian geese with lego brick, twelve
gage shotgut shells. Goose hunting is a lot of fun.
If I want to shoot snow geese, you'll go to
Lake to Missouri or something to shoot them because they
just fly in flocks of like, you know, ten thousand strong.
It's just that would be really fun. No, I'm not
Grim from red Hood, who is also a channel member,
and you guys in the chat can also now sign
up for channel memberships and get access to OGC streams
behind the paywalls, such as our gaming content that we've
been doing quite a bit recently, including on Tuesday instead
of watching the State of the Union where we had
some very very intense battles, particularly at the end of
the stream with myself, mister Quinn Charlemagne and Raging mander
Over playing some Total Warhammer three. So you two can
become a channel member and get access those videos. But
he says, for two bucks, New Vegas is honest, hearts
DLC maybe love nineteen eleven's I never played any of
the Fallout games, so I cannot relate. Unfortunately. Alrighty, let's
see imagine my lack of sheckels. For ten bucks, I'm
starting a community organization to educate leftists on their two
way rights. Membership comes with complimentary seeing less than one
is how to toss your weapon to your comrade.
Speaker 2: That's hilarious.
Speaker 1: Nice nice. Kyle Linscock for fifteen bucks says thanks for
the information and chat. Well, thank you, sir Ara, make
discourse again. For five bucks, I noticed the only people
advocating for gun control lately are politicians slash activists of
foreign extraction, at least in my area. Yeah, that's very true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are the main ones.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, very good point. Yeah, you don't have like
the Beto O'Rourkes anymore, you know, like the white politicians
talking about gun stuff much anymore. X Runner fifty five.
Best way to describe it is the pie gets bigger,
but the slices get smaller and everyone gets richer. Sure,
not sure, but that's in reference to at the time.
But thank you very much, sir, appreciate it, Zebrath. For
five bucks, Virginia will be a wild one for a while.
Send us your prayers. Not to mention I heard the
term assault handgun entered the scene recently. Oh for God's sake, Well, alrighty, yeah,
definitely hang in there, Virginia guys, and in times like
this that we must remind everybody join your local OGC chapter.
Got to have people that you can rely on in
these trying times. I know a lot more of our
guys are starting to get in business with each other,
really really big and very very important task into the future.
So join the OGC. Moving on here to ex Runner
fifty five again for five bucks, he says the best wit.
Oh wait, no, I just read that one.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Next one is uh uh super jack superjack hack for
twenty bucks. Uh, here's twenty bucks and all that that entails. Also,
you goo guns are great. I don't know anything about that.
Speaker 2: Jack has a ongoing teasing campaign with mister bird and
irl and online on this subject.
Speaker 1: There we go.
Speaker 3: I like the underfold or aks are a little heavy,
but you know, I've I've grown to have a great
appreciation for check guns and check ammo, which is some
of my favorite AMMO.
Speaker 2: Very good ammo. Hey Jack m.
Speaker 1: John C. Barsum for ten bucks. Bretta has some fantastic
reba It's currently even on threaded thirty two a CP guns.
Jay Byrne promised to get one for his wife. Interesting.
We talked about barretta too much, but I recently I've
recently got one of the A four hundreds and went
shot pheasants with it and I had a fun time
with it.
Speaker 2: Those are great guns.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they're fun. I like my Benelli Nomo better
of course.
Speaker 3: Yeah that what.
Speaker 1: That gun is such a joy to shoot.
Speaker 3: The Guineas was so much better than the Slavs.
Speaker 1: The Italians really know how to make a shotgun, man,
they really do. Mm hmm. All right. Marco's five eight
eight for eight Australian dollars sadly not a real American here,
despite admiring patent cheers from the Pattie POD's lads. Would
you all bring on in Aussie your actual greatest ally
we yes, Americans indeed are friends of the Australians. Definitely
share a special kinship with our Aussie friends. Yes, yes, yes, indeed,
and I pray that you guys can have your home
again in these trying times, especially uh you know, I mean,
I think they're coming for your guys' guns again in
the wake of shooting that involved literally nobody who was
Australian on either.
Speaker 3: Side, and we had an Aussie on the stream for
the when we did the Bunday Beach.
Speaker 1: Yes, we did, yes, And finally we got Volpi's persona
for five bucks. Also supporting the channel membership, Uh star,
we got to get some some emojis or some pictures
or something for channel members. I remember back in the
day on AA's channel, people can have like Emperor Palpatine
stairs or something, you know, on the sides. We gotta
we gotta do something creative for that. Anyway, he says
American one eight not familiar. I'm not sure what he's
referring to there, but anyway, we'll take your money regardless.
Speaker 2: That is a twenty two magnum sub machine gun that
looks like a Thompson with a big pan magazine on
the top of it. It is wild as hell, but
they're really cool. They're made in the seventies, and the
idea was that it was a if I recall correctly,
it would before dealing with like prison riots. So it's
you know, twenty two magnum, so relatively short range, and
it would still sting more than a little bit.
Speaker 1: Throw a jab into somebody's skull as you're pulling the trigger.
Speaker 2: But it's literally like a twelve inch barrel some machine
gun full auto at like you know, eighteen hundred rounds
per minute or something, So you're emptying like a two
hundred round pan drum into the the teeming masses of
the types of people that are that commit prison riots.
Speaker 1: So pretty cool, alrighty, And that is the last of
the super jets. So, uh, Pete, what do you have
to roote? I'm sorry you woke up to some bad
news this morning about about the YouTube situation, but uh,
where can people find all of your stuff?
Speaker 3: I expected it, I mean I can't believe it. I
can't believe that it took this long. Yeah, peaking on
a show all pat All podcatchers. You can check out
the videos for two hundred years together over on Odyssey.
And yeah, the audio, you know, if you contact me,
I'll let you know where the audio is because just
gotta be a little careful right now. But yeah, that's it.
Got a new episode dropping tonight of the Inquisition that
had already dropped with Thomas seven seven seven, Stormy Waters
and this guy named Carl Dolf.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that guy.
Speaker 1: You guys might have heard of him. Yeah, mister Dahl.
Anything else to promote, sir, and thank you for coming on.
Always a pleasure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me. It was super fun. I
appreciate it. I'm always happy to talk about firearms autism
as well as promote the OGC. You can find me
at Carldall dot substack dot com or on x at
cowdio doll. Thank you all right.
Speaker 1: In last minute super chat from our good friend ski
Bum two twenty always a good friend of the show,
sends us fifty bucks. I guess he is a gun enjoyer,
he says, Salute the OGC. Well, salute to you, sir.
You are a real American, real Americans, hetriot. Indeed, indeed, well,
I have nothing to promote right now because it's tax season,
so I'm going to go to bed, so we'll be here.
I'm back for more Pony Express Radio next week. Everyone
watched the rest of the great shows. OGC is putting
out American Spirits on Monday's Chapter House on Wednesday, and
then the occasional gaming stream. You guys got to be
here live to watch it, and then it's going to
go behind the paywall, so get those channel memberships if
you want to watch it. The last episode that we
did on the Tuesday of the Stay of the Union
was quite fun indeed, so if people want something to
relax and watch some gaming content, definitely check that out.
We'll be back next week. Everyone have a good weekend.
Speaker 3: When I pass on my good jeans to my sons,
they're going to join the Old Glory Club.