Speaker 1: Welcome to the two seventeen Recovery Broadcast.
Speaker 2: If you don't make mistakes, you won't learn with your host,
Speaker 2: Corey Winfield.
Speaker 1: And that goes to uneducated people, you know, and I'm
Speaker 1: not calling them dumbs, and they're uneducated about addiction and
Speaker 1: how it works. And I was too, you know, back
Speaker 1: in the day, I was a drunk and uneducated going, oh,
Speaker 1: look at that guy. I was uneducated. But the more
Speaker 1: we can educate people, and I think it starts with
Speaker 1: the youth, the more we educate the youth and get
Speaker 1: them like understanding there, like look, this is what it
Speaker 1: looks with how it works.
Speaker 2: Got your ass.
Speaker 1: It is the fifth of September twenty twenty four. My
Speaker 1: name is Cory Winfield. That this is the two seventeen
Speaker 1: Recovery podcast, and I have a special guest during me today,
Speaker 1: Robert Hardin. And Robert we don't have to live miserable
Speaker 1: long past. Yes, I figured it's been and I don't
Speaker 1: even know, a couple of years, probably a.
Speaker 2: Couple of years. Yeah. I was telling my friend Michelle
Speaker 2: that it's been a couple of years since I've been
Speaker 2: on your show, and it's really good to chat with you.
Speaker 2: So much has happened. I mean, just I just I
Speaker 2: have to turn down just opportunity after opportunity because it
Speaker 2: just creates hecticics in my schedule. And so I'm very
Speaker 2: particular on the spots that I choose. I try to
Speaker 2: keep busy with my podcast, do some speaking out of state,
Speaker 2: you know, and I'm involved with this organization seeing if
Speaker 2: I want to swim in the deep end of the pool.
Speaker 2: They're called Caine to Believe, which is an organization that
Speaker 2: was founded by Clarence Snyder, who was one of the
Speaker 2: sponsores of doctor Bob Smith, and so Clarence at one
Speaker 2: time was the longest sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous, and
Speaker 2: back in nineteen sixty six he wrote a companion book
Speaker 2: called Came to Believe, which incorporates the twelve Steps of
Speaker 2: recovery as they're written on the wall as the foundation.
Speaker 2: But it's a faith based organization, similar to Celebrate Recovery
Speaker 2: or Reformers Unanimous or a church based program. However, those
Speaker 2: programs which I shy away from, put the Bible before
Speaker 2: the twelve steps. In other words, they feel you need
Speaker 2: salvation and salvation will lead to recovery. What I call
Speaker 2: that bullshit, you know. Sobriety leads to everything you know,
Speaker 2: and you can be a person based on your particular
Speaker 2: spiritual path. You can be a person you know, on
Speaker 2: your way to Nirvana or heaven or whatever you're going
Speaker 2: to call it. And you're drunk, what have you done?
Speaker 2: You know, you've denied every human on the planet to
Speaker 2: secure an ear heavenly position. And I call that selface
Speaker 2: and self centeredness. And so this organization, I'm starting to
Speaker 2: get involved with them, and they're sending me are they're
Speaker 2: actually signed in agreement with Salvation Army to be in
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty of their arcs across the country
Speaker 2: to develop a program of treatment and recovery. And so
Speaker 2: it's very interesting to see how this thing unfolds.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's interesting the Salvation Army, because what I
Speaker 1: know of the Salvation Army, at least here in Michigan.
Speaker 1: You go there and you fold close and then you
Speaker 1: go to an AA meeting. Hey, yeah, it's better than
Speaker 1: sleeping in the woods. It's better than sleeping in a ditch.
Speaker 1: But they pay them like twenty five cents. Now, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know, this is this is what I've heard
Speaker 1: and maybe this has changed. But the last time we've
Speaker 1: like taken somebody to Salvation Army I'm using air quotes
Speaker 1: here to treatment, there was a really treatment. You know,
Speaker 1: it was more like a home, calmeless thing that they
Speaker 1: just hey, full these clothes, something to do, will feed
Speaker 1: you at an AA meeting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's a nine month program. So and and
Speaker 2: they're they're they're they're a Christ centered organization who knows
Speaker 2: nothing about recovery.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, and.
Speaker 2: So they're graduating these people at three six and nine months,
Speaker 2: sending them back on the street. But they have no
Speaker 2: Twelve Step foundation. There's nothing to them, and they're going
Speaker 2: to relapse. I mean that's what people like you and
Speaker 2: me do. You know, without a firm foundation of what
Speaker 2: the twelve Steps do in terms of how they allow
Speaker 2: us to reclaim and revolutionize and reinvent ourselves as an individual.
Speaker 2: You know, what have you done? You haven't done anything.
Speaker 2: You know, you might, you might get them closer to
Speaker 2: God in a way, but if you're if you're not
Speaker 2: getting them closer to their wife, to their children, to
Speaker 2: their job, to their mom and their dad there or
Speaker 2: what the hell have you? What have you done?
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, and that's like saying, oh, if you're
Speaker 1: a Christian, then you won't be you won't have a problem.
Speaker 1: You know, if you're a Muslim, you want have a
Speaker 1: problem because you'll have some kind of religion, you'll have
Speaker 1: some kind of thing, and that's not the case. I
Speaker 1: was listening to the Rico twelve.
Speaker 2: Podcast that yeah, might be justin yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: That's that's a cool thing that you guys got going
Speaker 1: on there, the asket Basket and they were they were
Speaker 1: talking about the atheist. It was like, hey, I don't
Speaker 1: believe in God. And my answer is kind of very
Speaker 1: similar to yours because my wife and I were like driving,
Speaker 1: well she was actually writing, I was driving, and my
Speaker 1: thing was, well, how many more excuses you got in there?
Speaker 1: You know, like yeah, because you can have excuse, well,
Speaker 1: I don't believe in God, so well I'm not going
Speaker 1: to go to AA or like pump the brakes. There's
Speaker 1: fifty thousand different ways you can recover. I use a podcast,
Speaker 1: you know, like some I mean, there's different ways you
Speaker 1: can do it. But like if that's what you're throwing
Speaker 1: out as excuses already, just stop, you know, because first,
Speaker 1: like you said, you know, just just stop, like, let's
Speaker 1: just get clean and you can worry about who you
Speaker 1: believe in and all that stuff later, you know, and
Speaker 1: trust me that you know, I believe in a god.
Speaker 1: It might not be the same as yours, but you
Speaker 1: know that it doesn't matter, you know, when you're talking
Speaker 1: about recovery and living in a life in recovery, and
Speaker 1: you guys mentioned too, it's different, you know than being abstinent,
Speaker 1: than being just well, i'm sober today, you know, like
Speaker 1: I tried that. I just didn't drink for a while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and I never did more meth until
Speaker 2: I was in the choir loft at Cavina, First Baptist
Speaker 2: church Man. That's when I really got into meth and
Speaker 2: smoking crack. I mean, just you know, i'd be hitting
Speaker 2: a pipe at seven o'clock on a Sunday morning being
Speaker 2: the choir loft. By nine, you know, and just I
Speaker 2: remember barring the choir director's car and I almost drove
Speaker 2: it off a cliff. I was so drunk I threw
Speaker 2: up in the car. I don't think I ever loaned
Speaker 2: that car again. And I was a good choir member.
Speaker 2: I was a really good Baptist, you know. On my
Speaker 2: way to hell drunk.
Speaker 1: Oh man.
Speaker 2: But you know when I tell people all the time,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't care who you're hiring. One of
Speaker 2: my sponsees has a higher power who is a Greek
Speaker 2: goddess called Gaeis, and she's the goddess of something. I
Speaker 2: don't know. All I know is this dude is happy,
Speaker 2: joys and free. I don't know anything about his higher power,
Speaker 2: and I could care less. I just cared that he's happy,
Speaker 2: joyson free. That's all I care about. If he's happy,
Speaker 2: joys and free. You know, your higher power can be
Speaker 2: anything but anything except a doorknob or a coffee cup.
Speaker 2: And I'm going to say, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1: I don't believe in the doorknobh oh.
Speaker 2: Hell no, I don't believe in anything that requires me
Speaker 2: to give it purpose. Yeah. The doorknob only works when
Speaker 2: I work the doorknob. Most of the time, God's working me.
Speaker 2: I'm not working God.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just got to shut up and get out
Speaker 1: of the way. Sometimes. And I was explaining to this
Speaker 1: guy the to day. He came in and we have
Speaker 1: these two seventeen recovery coins that we give out and
Speaker 1: it has our website on the back and it has
Speaker 1: fun and recovery.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It kind of remind people like, look, if you're down,
Speaker 1: pull out that coin and go to our website, listen
Speaker 1: to a podcast, watch one of our stupid videos, you know,
Speaker 1: like just get a laugh, you know, just break that.
Speaker 1: Anything to break that like desire to go use or whatever.
Speaker 1: And the guys like, well, I only have I don't
Speaker 1: need a coin. I only have two weeks. And I
Speaker 1: was like, I had two weeks once. I had two
Speaker 1: weeks a lot of times actually, but the last time
Speaker 1: I had two weeks was back in twenty eighteen, you know,
Speaker 1: and I just put some more behind it, you know.
Speaker 1: But I was like, dude, like seriously, like you know,
Speaker 1: and I kind of went through the whole process of
Speaker 1: it all. And it is a process. You know. You
Speaker 1: can't just wake up when they'm like, hmm, I'm an
Speaker 1: addict and I'm just not going to do it anymore.
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe you can't work that way. It just
Speaker 1: didn't work that way for me. I mean maybe there's
Speaker 1: a guy or two out there that maybe that did
Speaker 1: work for But it is a process. It is, at
Speaker 1: least for me, because I wanted to try it my way.
Speaker 1: Every little fricking way I could until finally I just
Speaker 1: threw my hands up and said that's enough. I'll just
Speaker 1: listen to everybody else and do it a different way,
Speaker 1: because having a plan that in five years I'll get
Speaker 1: a radio gig in California, nobody will know and I'll
Speaker 1: be able to drink again. Yeah, that's a lie. I'm
Speaker 1: telling myself a lie, you know. And it's my brain
Speaker 1: telling me that. You know, my soul wants this new life.
Speaker 1: My soul wants this, this whole creation. You know. I
Speaker 1: want a family, I want a wife, I want a kid,
Speaker 1: I want all that stuff. But my brain's telling me, nah,
Speaker 1: that is what you need to do.
Speaker 2: That's the ego, you know what. You know the ego's
Speaker 2: number one purposes. Are you ready? The ego's number one
Speaker 2: purpose and function is to convince me it doesn't exist.
Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 1: It is?
Speaker 2: Yeah, my ego says, I'm not here, I'm not real.
Speaker 2: By the way, I think you're the greatest person on
Speaker 2: the planet. I say, I agree, you know, I agree
Speaker 2: with something. That is purpose is to convince me it's
Speaker 2: not real and to convince me that I'm better than
Speaker 2: I really am.
Speaker 1: You know, no flaw.
Speaker 2: I've been sober fourteen thousand and thirteen days. I think
Speaker 2: that's it. I think that's the number. And you know
Speaker 2: the difference between me and the newcomer is I've been
Speaker 2: doing it longer, you know. I don't. There's no extra
Speaker 2: information and I get you know. I was talking to
Speaker 2: a friend the other day and she was talking about
Speaker 2: fourteen thousand, thirteen days and she was saying, gosh, you
Speaker 2: know so much, and I said, well, I know so
Speaker 2: much because I've read it over and over and over
Speaker 2: and over again, you know. And that's what we do,
Speaker 2: just repetition. There's only twelve steps in the program, you know,
Speaker 2: and steps one, two, three are surrender. Steps four through
Speaker 2: nine are recovery steps, and ten, eleven, and twelve are
Speaker 2: continuation steps. And when we understand that, then we can,
Speaker 2: you know, get to a place, get to a place
Speaker 2: that's really not a place but a journey. And I,
Speaker 2: you know, I never want to be cured. I never.
Speaker 2: I never. Could you imagine could you imagine Corey waking
Speaker 2: up tomorrow and realizing we're done. I don't. There's not
Speaker 2: a drink in the world, there's not a feeling in
Speaker 2: the world that could be better then the feeling I'll
Speaker 2: get tomorrow when I realized I've been given another day
Speaker 2: to be a better version of me.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's crazy, and the world needs people like us,
Speaker 1: And that's not my ego. I'm just saying, like people
Speaker 1: they can deliver this message of it can happen and
Speaker 1: the proof that good things are happening still in our lives,
Speaker 1: you know, Like that's what I mean, Like we need
Speaker 1: to carry that message. And there are people out there
Speaker 1: that say, you know, I was told when I started
Speaker 1: the podcast and I was in sober living, we went
Speaker 1: to this meeting in Charlevoie and then the guy was
Speaker 1: all irritated that was running the meeting because one of
Speaker 1: his recoveries was in the newspaper talking about all how
Speaker 1: he was sober for a year or something, maybe it
Speaker 1: was two years. Whatever. Well then he went out and relapsed,
Speaker 1: and so he came in and he was so pissed
Speaker 1: and he's like, you know what, if you don't have
Speaker 1: five years, you need to just shut your mouth. And
Speaker 1: he looked right at me. You know, I mean, the
Speaker 1: other guys started this podcast, and I'm like, is he
Speaker 1: talking to us? Like I can't work that way, like
Speaker 1: I have to put it out there that I'm in recovery.
Speaker 1: And when I did, because when on the radio, like
Speaker 1: I would hide it. You know, I was the rock
Speaker 1: jack man. We're supposed to be out partying, doing coke,
Speaker 1: smoking weed, getting drunk. My studio is supposed to smell
Speaker 1: like beer, you know, and so to be like, hey,
Speaker 1: I have a drinking problem. You know, I couldn't really
Speaker 1: do that. And then I'm like, oh, I'll lose my
Speaker 1: job and I'm in a program director role. I'm in
Speaker 1: two different markets, like I really can't do that. I
Speaker 1: was afraid. And when I started the podcast it was
Speaker 1: so freeing. It was like kicking the doors off and
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not hiding it anymore, you know,
Speaker 1: like boom, I'm in recovery. You know a lot of
Speaker 1: people will say, oh, I'm an alcoholic, and okay, call
Speaker 1: yourself whatever you want to me. That's a negative term.
Speaker 1: And I don't wake up in the morning and go, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm a piece of shit today. I'm gonna absolutely do nothing.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I wake up and I'm like, all right, cool, I
Speaker 1: might take a shit, but you know, then I'll take
Speaker 1: a shower, I'll get to work, and yeah, it'll be
Speaker 1: on my list of things. And I'm gonna accomplish today
Speaker 1: because I'm gonna get some stuff done. I'm gonna help
Speaker 1: some people today. And to never know who's walking through
Speaker 1: our doors each day is kind of interesting. And what
Speaker 1: kind of things you're gonna hear or what just simple
Speaker 1: things you could say that they're gonna come back in
Speaker 1: two years and be like, man, when you told me that,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, oh, really, just about the jelly jar,
Speaker 1: you know, like okay, like all right, but that's the
Speaker 1: beauty of it, man, And it's so amazing. And since
Speaker 1: we last talked, I think I was married when we
Speaker 1: talked last time. Yes, but I had a baby boy
Speaker 1: a few months ago in May, little little son, and
Speaker 1: we thought that was not gonna happen.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It was like, Okay, well if it happens, it happens. Boom,
Speaker 1: here you go. Cute little boy. He's healthy. Uh, he's
Speaker 1: got the dimples like his daddy. You know, he's gonna
Speaker 1: be he's gonna be a little charmer. Women are always like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, his eyelashes are so long. I'm like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just like all these blessings just keep coming. And
Speaker 1: to be able to open a recovery community center, you know,
Speaker 1: is amazing. Our organization two seventeen Recovery is a recovery
Speaker 1: community organization through faces and voices of recovery, and we
Speaker 1: get to employ people in recovery. We have five employees,
Speaker 1: and that may not sound like a lot, but it
Speaker 1: is when you're paying taxes on them. Oh my god, yeah,
Speaker 1: tell you that. I didn't know any of that stuff
Speaker 1: was happening. But yeah, So to be able to employ
Speaker 1: these people, whether I pay taxes on them or not,
Speaker 1: which we do, it is just an amazing thing. One
Speaker 1: of our guys I met at a vape shop and
Speaker 1: he worked there, and I come in there wearing my
Speaker 1: two seventeen Recovery podcast sweatshirt, and I'd seen him before,
Speaker 1: but it was like the third time I went in there,
Speaker 1: and I was debating on buying a new vape, and
Speaker 1: I was explaining to him, well, my wife did just
Speaker 1: get her hair done again, you know, like I mean,
Speaker 1: she's spending money on herself. I can spend money to
Speaker 1: you know, kill myself with the vaping, I guess. And
Speaker 1: so I got the new vape and I was like,
Speaker 1: well that I do want to save up for a
Speaker 1: new camera because we're starting to film a lot more things.
Speaker 1: And he's like, what do you do? What do you film?
Speaker 1: And I told him. I was like, well, we're filmed
Speaker 1: people telling their recovery stories. And he just kind of
Speaker 1: looked at me and had this hesitant look in his face,
Speaker 1: and then he said, yeah, I'm in recovery too, and
Speaker 1: I said, well, good, good for you, you know, And we
Speaker 1: started this conversation about being in recovery and I told
Speaker 1: him that I spoke at a treatment center every week,
Speaker 1: and he said, man, that would be awesome. Do you
Speaker 1: think I could come with you? Absolutely? Man? So I
Speaker 1: checked with the treatment center. Listen, yeah, no problem. So
Speaker 1: I brought him along with me and he just liked
Speaker 1: it a lot. And I said, hey, we're opening this
Speaker 1: recovery center. You know, if you ever thought about becoming
Speaker 1: a recovery coach and he was like, nah, I haven't really.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, here's what we would pay. I
Speaker 1: know that's probably more than what you're making at the
Speaker 1: vape store, but you can actually have a career here,
Speaker 1: and he turned me down. He said, nah, nah, nah,
Speaker 1: I'm cool at the vape store like okay, and then
Speaker 1: the next day he comes knocking on the door. We
Speaker 1: had to open it up for him. He's like, hey man,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I do want that job. This is
Speaker 1: that was so stupid to me to turn you down,
Speaker 1: you know. And so now he works here and since then,
Speaker 1: he's become a recovery coach. He's certified with the state.
Speaker 1: He's now one of our drivers that take people to
Speaker 1: him from treatment, which is very crucial when you use
Speaker 1: a recovery coach to do that, you know, it's huge.
Speaker 1: And he has learned how to use photoshop. He has
Speaker 1: his own podcast now. He's amazing at making these awesome
Speaker 1: flyers that we post around town. I mean, his skill
Speaker 1: set has went through the roof and he's just scratching
Speaker 1: the surface, you know. And he posted a blog he's
Speaker 1: a good blog writer about how his life has changed
Speaker 1: and for the first time ever, he has a career,
Speaker 1: you know. And to make this more than just well yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean recovery, No, this is a lifestyle. You know.
Speaker 1: He's embracing it. He's going on dates with women who
Speaker 1: have jobs, you know, like, I mean, it's yeah, he
Speaker 1: has standards. He says no to some women, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's just that self confidence. It's just this life
Speaker 1: you know, of being joyous and being thankful, and it's
Speaker 1: just such an amazing thing to be in the position
Speaker 1: that I'm in, to be able to watch these people grow,
Speaker 1: and to be able to offer these people work and careers.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's just something that's just amazing, Robert,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you.
Speaker 2: So you know, that's that's a great story. And we
Speaker 2: never know, you know, these these chants, encounters are only
Speaker 2: a chance to us there there there are no accidents
Speaker 2: in God's economy, and every every opportunity you know of.
Speaker 2: One of my college professors, doctor Nessman, taught me one
Speaker 2: of the most valuable lessons we could ever learn, and
Speaker 2: maybe you've heard a version of it. He he talked
Speaker 2: to me and he told me there was something called
Speaker 2: the rule of thirds. And the rule of thirds is
Speaker 2: a third of the people are going to think I'm
Speaker 2: the greatest things since life bread. A third of the
Speaker 2: people really could care less, and a third of the
Speaker 2: people can't wait for me to shut up, he said,
Speaker 2: But they'll all look the same. So the person who
Speaker 2: can't wait for you to shut up is going to
Speaker 2: look like the person who thinks you hung the moon,
Speaker 2: and they're going to seem real, real attached, real attentive,
Speaker 2: and they're going to think you're full of crap the
Speaker 2: whole way through. So therefore you don't know who these
Speaker 2: thirds are. Therefore, when you talk to everyone as if
Speaker 2: they were in the top third, many becoming the top
Speaker 2: third even without their permission. And I've tried to engage
Speaker 2: when we go into treatment centers and you know that,
Speaker 2: you know, some people could care less. Some people are
Speaker 2: there for just three hots and a cop. Some are
Speaker 2: there because it beats five years in federal prison. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's a number of reasons. CPS says, if you don't go,
Speaker 2: you're not going to get the kids back. Everyone jumps
Speaker 2: through that particular coercion for a different reason. But when
Speaker 2: you talk to them as if they have potential, as
Speaker 2: if they have power, as if they have another way
Speaker 2: of living, then they can think, wisest person talking to me.
Speaker 2: I don't care, And yet you don't care that they
Speaker 2: don't care. You're just there to share your experience, strength
Speaker 2: and hope. That's all we have to do. According to
Speaker 2: Step twelve, haven't had a spirit awakenized result of these stuff.
Speaker 2: We tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to
Speaker 2: practice these principles on all our affairs. We don't have
Speaker 2: to convince them of anything. We just have to try
Speaker 2: to carry our message. And our message is powerful. It's real,
Speaker 2: it's authentic. It's filled with compassion, it's filled with love,
Speaker 2: it's filled with remorse, it's filled with forgiveness. It's filled
Speaker 2: with a resurrected life. You know. And when we talk
Speaker 2: in those terms, people who wouldn't listen normally, now we
Speaker 2: have their attention and they think I want what that
Speaker 2: person has. I'm actually willing. I'm so tired of living
Speaker 2: this other life. I'm willing to entertain what they're saying.
Speaker 2: And when that happens, magic occurs, man, and this you know,
Speaker 2: you know, bro, there's nothing like it.
Speaker 1: And I wish I could bottle it and just give
Speaker 1: it to everybody, But then I would have tried to
Speaker 1: give people too much, you know what I'm saying. But no,
Speaker 1: that's what I told the guy who said he had
Speaker 1: two weeks, and I was like, it's this magical thing
Speaker 1: and it just flips and I don't know when it's
Speaker 1: going to flip for you, but it will just give
Speaker 1: us some time.
Speaker 2: I was in a treatment center yesterday Brighton, me and
Speaker 2: my friend Michelle. You'll have to have her on the show.
Speaker 2: She's amazing. I take her everywhere with me because she
Speaker 2: just lends so much credibility to my recovery. Anyway, I
Speaker 2: was in this treatment center and at the end of
Speaker 2: this my ninety minutes with them, this girl came up
Speaker 2: and said, could I talk to you? And I said sure,
Speaker 2: I've got a few minutes. And so she had fifteen
Speaker 2: days sober and she was worried about how she was,
Speaker 2: and I said to her, I said, you know I
Speaker 2: have I said I have fourteen thousand and eleven days.
Speaker 2: And I said how many days you have? And she
Speaker 2: says fifteen days? And I said, and how many of
Speaker 2: those days have you wanted to use? And she said
Speaker 2: fifteen of them? And I said, I can't remember the
Speaker 2: last time I wanted to use. Who do you think
Speaker 2: is more powerful than this room? You were me? And
Speaker 2: she thought about it and said me. I said, exactly,
Speaker 2: You've exhibited more power in the last fifteen days of
Speaker 2: saying no to something, your mind was saying yes to that.
Speaker 2: You have to have more power than me, because you've
Speaker 2: been saying no when I just don't have a desire.
Speaker 2: And then I told her, I said, do I know
Speaker 2: you in the present or do I know you by
Speaker 2: your past? And she said, well, you don't know my past,
Speaker 2: so you know me in the present. I said, exactly,
Speaker 2: what would you think of me if I found out
Speaker 2: everything of your past and then used it against you
Speaker 2: and your present? And she said I wouldn't like you.
Speaker 2: I said, okay, why doesn't that apply to you? And
Speaker 2: she just left this room just I mean, I would
Speaker 2: imagine she woke up today with day sixteen, you know,
Speaker 2: and when we can transfer that magic, when we can
Speaker 2: allow because in reality, how many people that you meet
Speaker 2: today will you know from yesterday? All you know is today,
Speaker 2: you know, And that's really powerful evidence, you know. They
Speaker 2: used to say to me, if you if you talk
Speaker 2: to me the way I talk to me, I would
Speaker 2: tell you to get out of my life. And that's true.
Speaker 2: People need to see what they're doing, not what they've done,
Speaker 2: because when we judge ourself by who we were, we
Speaker 2: judge yourself as a bad person, and we're actually sick
Speaker 2: people trying to get well, who've done some bad things.
Speaker 2: We did bad things not because we're bad. We did
Speaker 2: bad things because we were sick. And the sooner we
Speaker 2: can get our head around that, the closer we are
Speaker 2: to that position of recovery.
Speaker 1: You're trying to dig up the path because you nailed it,
Speaker 1: because you can't change the past, and don't judge me
Speaker 1: on it. And when you can get to that point
Speaker 1: of your life or your recovery journey where you can
Speaker 1: forgive yourself for the past and you can move forward
Speaker 1: and build a new life, it can be exciting. That's
Speaker 1: that's exactly what I did. I decided I'm not going
Speaker 1: to go back to radio. I'm going to start a
Speaker 1: nonprofit because why not. That's what people do, and you know,
Speaker 1: I want to help people. I knew that even from
Speaker 1: being in radio. You know, my biggest things that I'll
Speaker 1: tell people from radio isn't that I met Billy Gibbons
Speaker 1: or whoever. You know, It's not that I did this
Speaker 1: or that. It's we did a food drive in Fortsmouth,
Speaker 1: Arkansas the first year, and that I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: let's do this. The food bank came to us and
Speaker 1: they said, well you help us. I said sure, So
Speaker 1: we got with this garbage company or something. They gave
Speaker 1: us all these trash bins that we put in the stores,
Speaker 1: and we were on the radio four different stations telling
Speaker 1: people drop off food, drop off food, cans of food,
Speaker 1: and grocery stores said they were gonna put little labels
Speaker 1: and oh man, this is great, go to collect the food.
Speaker 1: We didn't have shit, We had nothing, And the guys
Speaker 1: that worked at the other stations were like, all right,
Speaker 1: well that sucked. Well. Next year came around and the
Speaker 1: food MANK guys came to talk to me and they're like,
Speaker 1: let's do this again. I said, yeah, let's let's have
Speaker 1: a different strategy. And he's like, well, to tell you
Speaker 1: the truth, Corey, dropping off cans of food, it's kind
Speaker 1: of a pain in the ass because then we got
Speaker 1: to pay somebody to come in sort it. Half of
Speaker 1: it we have to throw away because it's expired. It's
Speaker 1: just crap that people are just getting off the out
Speaker 1: of their cupboards. And he's like, if you give us money,
Speaker 1: it helps. Every twelve dollars and fifty cents we can
Speaker 1: feed a family of four with. Okay, So I got
Speaker 1: with the movie theater and Hunger Games or two or
Speaker 1: whatever was coming out, and I was like, let give
Speaker 1: us all these movie tickets. People will call there, they'll
Speaker 1: buy your popcorn, which you want anyway. And for twelve fifty,
Speaker 1: which was actually cheaper than what you would have went
Speaker 1: to the movies and bought two tickets for you know,
Speaker 1: you feed a family four. So man, we raised enough
Speaker 1: to feed twenty thousand people, and it was insane. We
Speaker 1: went from nothing, and my coworkers didn't want to even
Speaker 1: try it. They're like, we failed at it, and I'm like, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: we failed. How we did it. We're doing it again
Speaker 1: this year. And then the next year we did it again.
Speaker 1: And that's what I loved, you know. And I was
Speaker 1: telling that story when I was in the psych word
Speaker 1: to this guy and he's like, man, man, he's like,
Speaker 1: you just lit up when you told that story. And
Speaker 1: I was like, well, it's because I'm proud of it,
Speaker 1: you know, and like we helped so many people, and
Speaker 1: that's why I knew I had that in me. And
Speaker 1: first when I thought, oh, okay, i'll do this recovery thing.
Speaker 1: I'll get clean and i'll go back to school and
Speaker 1: i'll be a drug counselor and I didn't want to
Speaker 1: be a drug counselor you know, I don't want to
Speaker 1: sit in a room with one person and I can't
Speaker 1: share my experience with them either. You know, if you're
Speaker 1: a therapist and you're sitting there, you just have to
Speaker 1: listen and say, did you think that calling the cop
Speaker 1: a dick was going to get you out of that ticket?
Speaker 1: You know, you got to like make him think of like,
Speaker 1: who was that a good idea? Probably not, you know,
Speaker 1: but I didn't want to do that. So I like
Speaker 1: had a foot in and a foot out, and I
Speaker 1: was stuck. But when I went to treatment that last
Speaker 1: time and I was like, I'm going to do a podcast,
Speaker 1: I'm going to make it to a nonprofit and we're
Speaker 1: going to help people how. I have no idea, but
Speaker 1: God put this in my head for a reason. Don't
Speaker 1: know why. I'm just gonna shut up and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: run with it. Don't know what I'm doing, which can
Speaker 1: be scary for people, but having that faith and just
Speaker 1: trusting like this is better than what I was doing before,
Speaker 1: and I'm actually working towards something. If I just went
Speaker 1: back on the radio, I would just slide right back
Speaker 1: in the same, same old life. You know, you have
Speaker 1: to change, and I don't know if you can see
Speaker 1: it behind me up here is actually lyrics from a
Speaker 1: Blind Melon song when life is hard, you have to change, Yeah,
Speaker 1: have to. And for me, it was a change that
Speaker 1: I needed to make. And now to just kind of
Speaker 1: offer that for other people is just amazing. But you know,
Speaker 1: to not give up in yourself, not judge your past,
Speaker 1: you know, is a tough one. It took me a while,
Speaker 1: you know, like, oh, but I called the police on
Speaker 1: my mom. I you know, I think all this stupid
Speaker 1: stuff that I had done. I called my sister a
Speaker 1: horrible mother. Can't take it back, you know, I remember it.
Speaker 1: And the only thing I can do today is that
Speaker 1: living amends.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I can show my mom, I can show my sister,
Speaker 1: I can show my whole family that, yeah, I am sorry,
Speaker 1: and I did change my way, so I'll never act
Speaker 1: like that again. And my mom will tell you probably different,
Speaker 1: because sometimes I'd like to put her on time out.
Speaker 1: But hey, just kidding my mom, sort of.
Speaker 2: There's so much to be said for making that living amends,
Speaker 2: and I'm really glad you mentioned that. I mean, we
Speaker 2: can go to people most of the people we say
Speaker 2: we're sorry to just want to see us live a
Speaker 2: different life. The majority of them, certainly in my life.
Speaker 2: And you know, I was with my oldest daughters, the
Speaker 2: two daughters I walked out and over this last weekend,
Speaker 2: and then we sat and we chatted. My oldest daughter, Kathleen,
Speaker 2: and I had a chance to sit down and just talk,
Speaker 2: and I mainly talked to her and I said, you know,
Speaker 2: of everyone I've ever sorry for, you're the only true regret.
Speaker 2: You and your sister are the only real regrets that
Speaker 2: I carried with me today. And she looked at me
Speaker 2: and she said, Dad, you don't have anything to worry about.
Speaker 2: Just stay clean, stay sober, do you? And I know
Speaker 2: she felt that way, but you know, every now and
Speaker 2: then to hear that is really good, Especically when you've
Speaker 2: been sober as long as me. I just want to
Speaker 2: make sure you're still making the difference. And I wasn't
Speaker 2: that much of a difference to her because I left
Speaker 2: them when they were young. But man, I'm a great
Speaker 2: example as your grandfather how to make good choices and
Speaker 2: how to turn their life around. And I'm example to
Speaker 2: my grand to her children that I wasn't to her.
Speaker 2: And you know, there's always that living amends, you know that.
Speaker 2: I like that phrase a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because those people don't want to hear sorry anymore.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I got to the point where I couldn't even look
Speaker 1: my mom in the eye and say sorry, never do
Speaker 1: it again, you know, in that shame of it, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I just caused all this pain and stuff for everybody else,
Speaker 1: and oh my gosh, it just it's horrible. And to
Speaker 1: be at a point and I was telling this to
Speaker 1: the guy that was in here the other day, to
Speaker 1: be at a point where I thought, no, I'm thirty seven,
Speaker 1: I've lived a pretty good life. I can die now
Speaker 1: to think that, you know, to go back and go,
Speaker 1: oh my god, like, but that's what alcohol did to
Speaker 1: my brain.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It convinced me that, yeah, you lived pretty good life.
Speaker 1: You did some pretty cool things. You know, yeah you
Speaker 1: check out now, that's cool. You lived a full life.
Speaker 1: Didn't even know what love was, you know, like it
Speaker 1: didn't know what a family was, you know. To to
Speaker 1: just experience this is just so amazing, man, And it's
Speaker 1: truly a blessing. And I thank God every day the
Speaker 1: way I prayed before it was God, let me figure
Speaker 1: this out, and he let me. He let me figure
Speaker 1: it out. I had to go through all those hard
Speaker 1: times to be where I'm at today. If I didn't
Speaker 1: go to jail, I wouldn't know anything about jail, you know.
Speaker 1: If I didn't go back to jail, I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been sent up to Northern Michigan, you know, to get
Speaker 1: away from where I grew up in Southwest Michigan, where
Speaker 1: there was nothing there for me, you know, and to
Speaker 1: be able to have that fresh start. Some people I've
Speaker 1: seen them leave treatment, like this one couple they hooked
Speaker 1: up in treatment and they're like, we're gonna move to Florida.
Speaker 1: I said, okay, I can tell you how that's gonna
Speaker 1: work out. Oh, don't judge us. You don't know where
Speaker 1: the exception. All right. Two three weeks later, I get
Speaker 1: a Facebook message, Well you were right. He kicked me out,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. I'm like, oh, because you start using again.
Speaker 1: Well that's not the point. I'm like, Okay, Well I
Speaker 1: can right, you know. And there's some people who just
Speaker 1: can't imagine. And I was this way too. I can't
Speaker 1: imagine a life without using some kind of drug, and
Speaker 1: I thought I'd figured it out. I was in like
Speaker 1: this the crappiest treatment center that's on the earth. And
Speaker 1: it's when it hit me, Robert, I'm a genius. My
Speaker 1: ego came into play here. Why didn't I figure this
Speaker 1: out sooner? I don't know. I'm just gonna smoke weed.
Speaker 1: That's what I'll do. And I went up to one
Speaker 1: of the texts. I was like, hey, man, I don't
Speaker 1: even need to be here anym. He's like, what are
Speaker 1: you talking about. I was like, man, I figured it out.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna smoke weed. I don't like mixing alcohol
Speaker 1: and weed. I'll just smoke weed. Then I won't drink.
Speaker 1: He said, you can't substitute. That's substitute, and you're substitute worth. Man. No,
Speaker 1: I got this, So I get out. I get this
Speaker 1: bag of weed. And the bag of weed now is
Speaker 1: not the bag of weed when I was smoking weed
Speaker 1: when I was seventeen eighteen. We're not saying yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean. I was like I couldn't even get off
Speaker 1: the couch. I was like, what is going on? I
Speaker 1: was like, this is stupid. And then I called the
Speaker 1: buddy and was like, hey, bring me a fifth and
Speaker 1: I'll trade you this weed. It lasted a day. Robert
Speaker 1: like that, it just doesn't work. And I was like, damn,
Speaker 1: that guy was right, and then I had to go
Speaker 1: back treaming again blah blah blah blah. But some people
Speaker 1: still hold on to this thing of like I have
Speaker 1: to have something. And this one lady was telling me like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna smoke weed till the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: And I was like, look for me, I can't do it.
Speaker 1: If there's a one percent chance half a percent point
Speaker 1: zero zero zero zero zero's you're a one percent chance.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do it because if there's that
Speaker 1: one percent, that point zero zero zero zero one percent
Speaker 1: that will lead me to alcohol. Again, not going to
Speaker 1: do it. It's not worth it. And they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I need it from my back or I need
Speaker 1: it because work is stressful. I'm like, do you have
Speaker 1: you what are you working on? What are you really
Speaker 1: working on? Because that was something that I said too
Speaker 1: being in radio. Oh it's so stressful, you know, like
Speaker 1: I have to come home and I have to just
Speaker 1: get ship face drunk. What that doesn't make sense? And
Speaker 1: what how is that helping anything, Well, it helps me unwined.
Speaker 1: What it doesn't makes you shake, you know, like that's
Speaker 1: why you're sick and dry heaving in the morning, you know,
Speaker 1: like that's what it's doing. It's not helping you, but
Speaker 1: it's it's tough to get caught up in that though,
Speaker 1: and then just think, well I need it for this,
Speaker 1: I need it for that, you know. It's like no,
Speaker 1: you don't, man. And some people will say you just
Speaker 1: need to meditate, which I'd like to meditate from time
Speaker 1: to time too, But there's other things that you can
Speaker 1: do to replace it, you know, and you don't need the.
Speaker 3: Way like go help another alcoholic. Yeah, well the novel Idea,
Speaker 3: you know, it says on real Numeral seventeen of the
Speaker 3: Big Book that the strenuous work one alcoholic to another
Speaker 3: is vital to bring about permanent recovery. So if I
Speaker 3: want permanent recovery, and I always want permiency, I'm just
Speaker 3: going to go help another alcoholic and somehow, some way,
Speaker 3: no matter what state I'm in, helping another person helps me.
Speaker 3: And that's why even the first tradition our commonwealthfare should
Speaker 3: come first. Personal recovery depends upon AA unity. It's what
Speaker 3: we believe in together that helps me as an individual
Speaker 3: and what I believe personally, you know, it is that commonality.
Speaker 3: It's page seventeen of the Big Book. We have discovered
Speaker 3: a common solution on which we can absolutely agree and
Speaker 3: joining brotherly and harmonious action, you know, and what is
Speaker 3: that agreement? Twelve steps I recovered the Big Book, the
Speaker 3: first one hundred and sixty four pages. You know, get
Speaker 3: in a loving God, getting a sponsor, going to meetings,
Speaker 3: helping another alcoholic, you know, working and then doing.
Speaker 2: It over again. You know. Joe and Charlie on there,
Speaker 2: Joe and Charlie tapes are really excellent in terms of
Speaker 2: helping to find what the steps are and steps ten
Speaker 2: eleven and twelve. They call them growth steps, not maintenance steps,
Speaker 2: but growth steps, they say, and I believe them that
Speaker 2: they've never known a person who's actively done steps ten
Speaker 2: eleven and twelve every day not to grow. And that's
Speaker 2: what I'm in this thing, you know, because I couldn't
Speaker 2: get more high. I sat in the hotel room and
Speaker 2: I tried to be in almost one more time on
Speaker 2: almost because I came from nothing, I wasn't nothing. I
Speaker 2: was always going to be nothing. So I settled on
Speaker 2: an almost and I tried to recapture that feeling and
Speaker 2: I couldn't. And the only way for me was the
Speaker 2: Rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. Because I knew I didn't want
Speaker 2: to die. That's why I drank. I wanted to find
Speaker 2: that halp, a medium that wasn't terrible, wasn't good, it
Speaker 2: was okay. Right where I was at, I found that
Speaker 2: neutrality where it didn't hurt being me. And I sat
Speaker 2: in that hotel room and I couldn't recapture it, and
Speaker 2: the only place for me to go was to the
Speaker 2: Rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. And when I went back to
Speaker 2: the rooms that day, through a divine set of miracles,
Speaker 2: my sponsor and I got down on our knees did
Speaker 2: the Third Step prayer. That was April twenty fifth, nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty six. And trust me, Corey, I've never looked back. Never,
Speaker 2: I've never doubted anything. You know, over the years, I've
Speaker 2: had a continual spiritual awakening. But in that moment, I
Speaker 2: had a spiritual experience that revolutionized my wife, my life,
Speaker 2: and I knew I would never drink again.
Speaker 1: Kind of had the same thing when I was in jail,
Speaker 1: you know, and I actually prayed to God, you know,
Speaker 1: like let that be the last drink I ever take,
Speaker 1: and so far it has been. But it just went
Speaker 1: and like I said, it just flips two. I don't
Speaker 1: walk around mad or sad because I can't drink today.
Speaker 1: And if it pops in my head or someone says,
Speaker 1: would you want to drink today? I go, oh, no,
Speaker 1: why would I want to do that? Like it flipped,
Speaker 1: you know, from being the oh I can't drink to
Speaker 1: why would I want to drink like that? That's a
Speaker 1: horrible idea. Why would I want to go cut my
Speaker 1: wiener off like that?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Thanks, Like I'm going to say no to both those
Speaker 1: things because it's not a good option for me.
Speaker 2: You know, it says I tempted. Well, we will recoil
Speaker 2: as it for mon as it from hot flame. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's what I do. I'm you know, I'm very
Speaker 2: fortunate having gotten sober. In Las Vegas, I was a
Speaker 2: room service waiter and you know, much of my story
Speaker 2: I've never known a sober moment that didn't include alcohol. Never.
Speaker 2: I mean for ten years, fifteen years almost in the
Speaker 2: restaurant business serving drinks, and you know, to this day, Laura's.
Speaker 2: She he actually sets things down at the end of
Speaker 2: second drink and says, oh, I can't drink anymore. I think,
Speaker 2: what's the matter with you? You know, people would you know,
Speaker 2: they would think what was the matter with me? And
Speaker 2: I'd be on my eighth and ninth my tent drink.
Speaker 2: She has two drinks and she says, Oh, I'm getting
Speaker 2: a little dizzy. I need to stop.
Speaker 4: Just when you're when you're getting dizzy, I'm just getting
Speaker 4: wound up.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm just getting ready to rock and roll.
Speaker 2: This is just you know, opening up the doors for
Speaker 2: me to get stupid, you know. And and so I've
Speaker 2: always been around it, and unfortunately, you know, and not
Speaker 2: everyone can. And I'm and I get that, and I'm
Speaker 2: okay with that. Just I hope you're okay with me
Speaker 2: being around it, you know, because we never recover from
Speaker 2: the alcoholism. I agree with you. We're not cured of alcoholism.
Speaker 2: What we really have is a daily reprieved contingent on
Speaker 2: the main of our spiritual condition. We recover from that obsession,
Speaker 2: We recover from that hopeless state of mind and body
Speaker 2: that allows us to make a national decision in a
Speaker 2: non emotive, so we don't react to the things we
Speaker 2: used to don't. We don't find it necessary. It's easier
Speaker 2: for me to walk through pain than it is for
Speaker 2: me to avoid pain, because avoidance will lead to more pain,
Speaker 2: and more pain will increase my need to medicate. And
Speaker 2: my favorite medication is Johnny Walker Black.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I preach about reacting a lot too, and
Speaker 1: how you respond versus react, because yeah, and man, it's
Speaker 1: a lifelong journey. It's it's going to be a lifelong
Speaker 1: learning experience for me because there's some things that will
Speaker 1: cut you off guard, and man, you just want fire,
Speaker 1: especially when you're driving. We call it giving people the
Speaker 1: corey now is when giving people's finger if I let
Speaker 1: you know anything, you know, but but I try to like, hey,
Speaker 1: maybe that person's having a bad day too, you know,
Speaker 1: like just just don't react so much, and you will
Speaker 1: save yourself the embarrassment. Man, I've saved myself so much
Speaker 1: embarrassment that normally probably would have made me go drink
Speaker 1: because I would have said something so wrong or falsely
Speaker 1: accused somebody of something they didn't do.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 1: Just just calmed down. And there was a guy in
Speaker 1: here last month and he was like, Corey, he came
Speaker 1: in to talk to me, and then he left and
Speaker 1: he comes back in and he's like, Corey, somebody stole
Speaker 1: my phone out of my car. And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: are you sure. I mean, we don't really have a
Speaker 1: lot of people in our parking lot, just wandering through
Speaker 1: looking through people's cars, and you're only here for like
Speaker 1: five minutes. And I was like, well, let me check
Speaker 1: the camera, you know, because our camera points out. And
Speaker 1: I was like, well, there was a car that kind
Speaker 1: of came by, but I don't think they went in
Speaker 1: your car to steal your phone. He's like, oh, was
Speaker 1: just sitting right there. Now it's gone. Somebody stole my
Speaker 1: Just freaking out, you know, And I was like, let's
Speaker 1: just calm down. I was like, you sure it's not
Speaker 1: in your car?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Positive? You know, I left it right in the center.
Speaker 1: I'm like, are you sure it didn't like fall into
Speaker 1: your seat or something. I wouldn't have put it there.
Speaker 1: I was right in the center. So go out to
Speaker 1: his car. He opens his door. He's like, right, here's
Speaker 1: where I put it. And I was like okay, and
Speaker 1: I look under his seat and it's not there, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right. He goes to close the door
Speaker 1: and I look in the door and there's that little
Speaker 1: cubby area in the door, and I see his phone
Speaker 1: as he closes the door. I'm like, well, hold on,
Speaker 1: open your door back up. He's like what. I was like,
Speaker 1: what is that there? And he's like, well, that's my phone.
Speaker 1: Oh oh my god. I thought, you know, but he
Speaker 1: just went into that this panic mode and just assumed
Speaker 1: that all these bad things were happening to him when no, oh,
Speaker 1: that's right, the dog. I had to take this dog
Speaker 1: over this lady, and the dog was getting my phone.
Speaker 1: So now I remember putting it in there. Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: so dumb. I'm like, not dumb, but you like almost
Speaker 1: caused yourself a moment that could have led you to
Speaker 1: go relapse. Yeah, and just even if someone did steal
Speaker 1: your phone, God wanted you to have a new one then.
Speaker 2: So here I am. I'm like two and a half
Speaker 2: years sober. And and when I met Laura, we've been
Speaker 2: married over thirty five years now. When I met Laura,
Speaker 2: I stopped dating. I took Laura out once and I thought,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I have to marry this girl. So
Speaker 2: the next day I woke up and I was dating
Speaker 2: one of my Cotta waitresses who was also a lingerie model.
Speaker 2: So she was a tall drink of water and I
Speaker 2: was really thirsty at the time. So and so, but
Speaker 2: I took Laura out, and I thought, this is the
Speaker 2: girl I have to marry. And so I went and
Speaker 2: I told this girl the next day. So give you
Speaker 2: an idea of how crazy I was for Laura from
Speaker 2: like Jump Street and so. So Laura was over my
Speaker 2: house on a Saturday morning and we were leaving and
Speaker 2: I locked my keys in my car, and instead of
Speaker 2: getting upset, I was cool. I was calm, I was collective.
Speaker 2: I figured out how I was going to And Laura
Speaker 2: came from madness. Her dad was a drug addict, insane
Speaker 2: person who just would blow up at the smallest provocation.
Speaker 2: So she watched me for about a half hour, just
Speaker 2: figure out what am I going to do? How am
Speaker 2: I going to And eventually I got the door open
Speaker 2: and I got my keys out. She fell in love
Speaker 2: with me in that moment, in that moment of calmness,
Speaker 2: of collecting myself, of being cool when I could have
Speaker 2: been angry. She'll say to this day, that's when she
Speaker 2: fell in love with me because I represented the person
Speaker 2: that she always wanted to be with. And we were
Speaker 2: fifteen years apart then and now, and so there's a
Speaker 2: lot to be sad for being cool and being composed
Speaker 2: and for living that serene life that only our higher
Speaker 2: power can bring us souf. So, whether it's you don't
Speaker 2: have to be embarrassed when you find your phone, or
Speaker 2: you end up with a girl who thirty six years
Speaker 2: later you're still in love with it, just it just.
Speaker 1: Works and you feel better, you know, And oh, you
Speaker 1: felt like you accomplished something by actually getting your keys,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I'm sure you felt good, you know, but
Speaker 1: it would have been easy for you to blow up.
Speaker 1: I can't believe I did this, and know what am
Speaker 1: I going to do now? And you just have to
Speaker 1: just take a deep breath. Yeah, this is what's happening.
Speaker 2: Pays, bro, It pays, It really does. And whether whether
Speaker 2: it pays in a thirty six year relationship, and to
Speaker 2: this day, Laura and I were still dating, and We're
Speaker 2: going to go to Florida for seven days and just
Speaker 2: lay in the sun and just enjoy life and enjoy
Speaker 2: our marriage and enjoy our friendship, and and you know,
Speaker 2: and that happened over time. Obviously, anything that I can
Speaker 2: do because I'm usually later on in the day when
Speaker 2: I do my ten step, when I take that final
Speaker 2: inventory at the end of the day, other than a
Speaker 2: spot check. You know, there's nothing worse than looking at
Speaker 2: life and thinking I had an opportunity to be a
Speaker 2: better version of me, and I missed that opportunity because
Speaker 2: I became more important than whatever the circumstance or opportunity was.
Speaker 2: And there are opportunities, There are opportunities. In the Big Book,
Speaker 2: it says for God to demonstrate his omnipotence in our life,
Speaker 2: and either our higher power is our higher power. And
Speaker 2: I'm not perfect with this. You know, I've wanted to
Speaker 2: murder people in the line at food for less as
Speaker 2: much as the next person. But I don't do anything.
Speaker 2: I try not to do anything that I have to
Speaker 2: go back and I say I'm sorry to, to say
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to and whether I know them or not,
Speaker 2: God knows me, and I know me, and I know
Speaker 2: how I ought to be. And when we get to
Speaker 2: the end of the day, and said, you know, there
Speaker 2: was an opportunity for me to be stupid, and I
Speaker 2: decided to trust instead of being you know, engage and
Speaker 2: something I can't control, you know, can I control this?
Speaker 2: Can I control it? You know? Where where's that divided line?
Speaker 2: And obviously, to get upset over things you can control
Speaker 2: is fullestness, and to get upset over things that you
Speaker 2: can control is just stupid.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a lesson that I had learned the
Speaker 1: hard way in treatment. The last time, I was pretty
Speaker 1: much court ordered to go there. I couldn't leave. And
Speaker 1: that was my big thing.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: That's why I went to so many treatment centers. Is
Speaker 1: I would be there a week and I would have
Speaker 1: the of course I'm brilliant, I'm just gonna smoke weed moments,
Speaker 1: or you know, I would be like, oh, I just
Speaker 1: need to get a job. I just need to make
Speaker 1: some money. If I had money to pay my bills,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't drink. Okay, no that I've had people tell
Speaker 1: me that didn't work, and of course it didn't, but
Speaker 1: I thought I'd figure it out. Every time. Well, I
Speaker 1: was court ordered for ninety days, so I couldn't just leave.
Speaker 1: And there was this guy who I hated and I
Speaker 1: was in a different treatment center with him, and he annoyed.
Speaker 1: I just tried to stay away from him. Well, this
Speaker 1: one was as easy to stay away from him. And
Speaker 1: he would get into the groups and he would we
Speaker 1: call them a hijacker because there was forty people in
Speaker 1: a group, and the groups hour and a half. Everybody
Speaker 1: has to share, well do the math on that, you know,
Speaker 1: like you don't really have a long time, but he
Speaker 1: would take up twenty thirty minutes. Not everybody would even
Speaker 1: get to share how they felt that day because he
Speaker 1: was hijacking the group, talking about how he's got a
Speaker 1: grand kid now and how he's gonna never use and
Speaker 1: just on and on and on. We'd go outside and
Speaker 1: smoke a cigarette and he's out there talking about when
Speaker 1: I get back to Battle Creek, I'm gonna be the
Speaker 1: biggest meth dealer in Battle Creek because I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: this and that, and we're like, dude, And I hated
Speaker 1: every minute of them, everything about him. Hated his face,
Speaker 1: hated his hair, hated his jacket, hated everything about him.
Speaker 1: And I went to the my counselor lady and was like,
Speaker 1: you need to switch me groups and she's like no,
Speaker 1: and so I was like, yes, you need to. Normally
Speaker 1: that's where I would have bounced, all right, I'm out.
Speaker 1: That would have been my excuse. Don't don't need a
Speaker 1: big one, didn't couldn't find my lighter, couldn't find a lot,
Speaker 1: I'm out. I gotta go, you know. And so I
Speaker 1: went to this other guy and I was like, look, Stephen,
Speaker 1: he was really really good at what he did. And
Speaker 1: I was like, Stephen, this guy, I can't be in
Speaker 1: a group with them. Could you please explain to homegirl
Speaker 1: here that I need to get switched out of that group.
Speaker 1: And he's like, well, they're not going to do that,
Speaker 1: but you're getting worked up over things that you don't
Speaker 1: have control over. And I was like what. He's like, well,
Speaker 1: when he goes on his little tangents, what's your job?
Speaker 1: I was like, what do you mean? What's my job?
Speaker 1: He's like, well, what are you supposed to be doing?
Speaker 1: I was supposed to be paying attention. He's like, okay,
Speaker 1: but you're not vibing with this guy and what he's saying.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, absolutely not. He's like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: what can you control? And I was like, oh, puffy
Speaker 1: about Look, well I can go take a shit. You can, well,
Speaker 1: I take a nap? You can. I was like, I
Speaker 1: can color, you can, I can write my mam a letter.
Speaker 1: He's like, you can. Those are things you can control.
Speaker 1: He's like, it's the group leader's job. It's her job.
Speaker 1: She's actually getting paid. It's her job to tell him
Speaker 1: to shut up and to move on. You get two minutes,
Speaker 1: let's go. You know, like, it's her job. That's not
Speaker 1: your job, Corey. You're not here leading group. And I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I guess you're right. And he's like, you, now,
Speaker 1: if you want after group, if you would like to
Speaker 1: go to say something in the structure, like hey, can
Speaker 1: you please move on from that guy or maybe have
Speaker 1: him go last? You could do that. Will she do that?
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's up to her, But at least
Speaker 1: you those are things that you can do. You have
Speaker 1: control over that. You have no control over what comes
Speaker 1: out of his mouth. You could go punch him in
Speaker 1: the face, but then we're gonna call the cops and
Speaker 1: you're gonna go to jail. And I don't think you
Speaker 1: want that. He's like, but those are options. Those are
Speaker 1: what you can do. Those are things that you have
Speaker 1: And I started thinking about it like that and it flipped.
Speaker 1: It changed and he came up to me, this guy
Speaker 1: that I hated, and he's like, you got a problem
Speaker 1: with me, because after two or three days of me
Speaker 1: not reacting, it was bugging him like he wanted that
Speaker 1: reaction out of me. And he's like, you want to
Speaker 1: go outside and fight? And I was like for what
Speaker 1: you know? And my friend was in there and he
Speaker 1: big guy became friends or whatever. But he's like, I'll
Speaker 1: go outside with you, Billy.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: He's like, no, I don't go outside with you, Ricky.
Speaker 1: He's a big old dude. He's like no. I was like, nah,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not going outside with you, man, it's
Speaker 1: not about that. I was like, but if you go
Speaker 1: on your lit tangent again, I'm going to leave the group.
Speaker 1: I'm just letting you know, you know, like that's that's
Speaker 1: that's what I have control over. But it's just things
Speaker 1: like that that you learn along the way, that you
Speaker 1: start putting into play and it just helps and saves
Speaker 1: you embarrassment. It saves you from getting worked up over
Speaker 1: something that you have no control over.
Speaker 2: You know, who's going to win presidents and that's that's
Speaker 2: and that's real good that that counselor said that to you,
Speaker 2: because early on in Vegas they told me it's not
Speaker 2: what they say, it's not what they do, it's how
Speaker 2: you react. Yeah, you know, you don't control what they say,
Speaker 2: you don't control what to do, but you control your reaction.
Speaker 2: And that's been your biggest problem. You reacted to everything, yep,
Speaker 2: And and you throw it all in one basket and
Speaker 2: you have one reaction to what you think is one thing.
Speaker 2: But it's not just one thing. That's a number of things.
Speaker 2: But you decided it needed to be one thing so
Speaker 2: you could drink over everything. And boy, that was a
Speaker 2: you know, I'm so glad that I got sober in
Speaker 2: Las Vegas. You know, I number one Las Vegas. The
Speaker 2: bottom was severe. There's no purgatory, there's no holding pattern.
Speaker 2: You're either you're either you don't have a problem or
Speaker 2: you have a severe problem. You know, alcoholism, drug addiction, pornography, gambling,
Speaker 2: over eating. Because all the great buffets they've got and
Speaker 2: you name it, there's not an addiction, either substance or
Speaker 2: behavioral that does not try to attract you. You know,
Speaker 2: in Vegas and lights and everything is good. Everything is
Speaker 2: twenty four hours a day everything. You never have to wonder, Gosh,
Speaker 2: I can't wait for the slicker store to get open,
Speaker 2: or I can't wait to go meet my drug dealer,
Speaker 2: or I can't go. You know, you want to go
Speaker 2: see a stripper at six am. Go see a stripper
Speaker 2: at six am. There's a club open, you know you
Speaker 2: want to. You want to gamble your paycheck at you know,
Speaker 2: nine o'clock in the morning. There's a place to do that.
Speaker 2: You want to. You want to Scot's on the rocks,
Speaker 2: you know at eight o'clock, eight am, knock yourself out.
Speaker 2: You want to meet your drug dealer at the crab table.
Speaker 2: You know you can get a dose of cocaine. I mean,
Speaker 2: it didn't matter. You know, you want a breakfast buffet,
Speaker 2: you want a lunch buffet, you want a dinner buffet,
Speaker 2: you want to throw up in between? What do you want?
Speaker 2: You know it's there and so so. Even though my
Speaker 2: addictions started in California, where really got a wheels roll
Speaker 2: in the first place I drank. I'd lived in California
Speaker 2: at the time, longer than I'd lived anywhere, but moving
Speaker 2: to Las Vegas, I I tell people it turned a
Speaker 2: fender bender into a head on collision. And I'm grateful
Speaker 2: to Las Vegas because I think a person like me
Speaker 2: needed Las Vegas to crash harder than I would have
Speaker 2: had I not been in Las Vegas. And because I
Speaker 2: had been drinking by the time I got to Las
Speaker 2: Vegas in nineteen eighty, I started where you know in
Speaker 2: Japan they have a phrase, first a man takes a drink,
Speaker 2: then the drink takes a drink, and then the drink
Speaker 2: takes the man. And I think Las Vegas just accelerated
Speaker 2: my timeline and the depth of my addiction better than
Speaker 2: any place could have, I say, better, but faster than
Speaker 2: any place. And so my need for recovery came. And
Speaker 2: instead of I believe for me, instead of dying a slow,
Speaker 2: painful death that addiction can facilitate, I hit a bottom
Speaker 2: I would not have hit anywhere else. Fortunately, in Las Vegas,
Speaker 2: AA is so strong twilve step recovery is as good
Speaker 2: and as foundational as any place I've ever visited across
Speaker 2: the country. And not only was my addiction waiting for
Speaker 2: me before I ride, but AA was waiting for me
Speaker 2: that it was everything I needed when I needed it
Speaker 2: to be, and the strength and the durability and the
Speaker 2: no nonsense approach to recovery was something that someone as
Speaker 2: severely as addicted as I was needed at the time.
Speaker 2: And I'm forever grateful for Las Vegas for its bottom
Speaker 2: that only Las Vegas could provide and the recovery that
Speaker 2: was waiting for me when I finally said enough is enough.
Speaker 1: And you live in Utah now, right?
Speaker 2: I do?
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 2: I live in Salt Lake City, very active, still have Rufus. No,
Speaker 2: thank you for asking about Rufus died a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that we missed Rufus.
Speaker 2: We tried to get another dog and that didn't go
Speaker 2: too well. Fortunately we're able to give the dog away
Speaker 2: and give them a good home and I will be dogless. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: I just don't have time, unfortunately to give the dog
Speaker 2: the attention. Low works a lot and allows me to
Speaker 2: do what I do, and so I'm super active in
Speaker 2: twelve step recovering, my traveling and my speaking and my podcast,
Speaker 2: and I'll be in Idaho in February. I'm back in California.
Speaker 2: I just was in California Treatment Center of Recovery, Alma Club,
Speaker 2: and I'm speaking three times I'm secretary in a Saturday
Speaker 2: meaning or chairing a Saturday Act meaning speaker meeting, and
Speaker 2: and just really getting some good recovery brusive service, you know.
Speaker 2: And that's what's really great. You know, being sober as
Speaker 2: long as I've been sober has really opened a lot
Speaker 2: of doors for me that I that have been open
Speaker 2: just because they can't believe that a guy is sober
Speaker 2: as long as me, you know, is still wanting, you know,
Speaker 2: to serve and and and guys like you and me, Corey,
Speaker 2: we don't know how not to serve you. You got
Speaker 2: to you got to say we don't want you. And
Speaker 2: then I'll say, really, come.
Speaker 1: On there anyway, you know there might as well use me.
Speaker 2: That's right, I'm here. You know, you might not like
Speaker 2: my experience struct and hopeing. I got a lot of it.
Speaker 1: You know, it's going to reach one person, man, guy
Speaker 1: out there.
Speaker 2: You know what you know, Gosh, you said that more
Speaker 2: than once. And there was a treatment center and then
Speaker 2: I've been the alumni speaking there a couple of times,
Speaker 2: and and I went back when I was speaking in
Speaker 2: California just recently, I called up this treatments and I said,
Speaker 2: I'm going to be in town, and Daniel, the CEO
Speaker 2: of this treatment center, is really nice to me. Hey,
Speaker 2: anytime you're in town, come and you can get in
Speaker 2: front of our male and female population. So this one
Speaker 2: particular time I was there because again the rule of third,
Speaker 2: you never know who you're going to touch. So so
Speaker 2: I'm speaking. I spoke at this treatment center on Friday
Speaker 2: in classroom setting. So Saturday, I'm the alumni speaker speaking
Speaker 2: everyone who's graduated from the program on a Saturday afternoon.
Speaker 2: And I got there early just to get a feel
Speaker 2: for a lay of the land, you know, and the landscape.
Speaker 2: And I saw this girl changing trash cans and that
Speaker 2: was her chore that morning at the stream and Center.
Speaker 2: And I said, hey, I remember you from yesterday and
Speaker 2: she said, yeah, you know, she said, you know, this
Speaker 2: is a ninety day program and I was on day
Speaker 2: sixty or whatever it was. She said, And I was
Speaker 2: going to leave yesterday. Mind jo, I'm talking to sixty
Speaker 2: women having the asket basket, you know, just answering questions
Speaker 2: on the floor. And she said, I was going to
Speaker 2: leave yesterday, but I decided to stay the full ninety days.
Speaker 2: Would you like to meet my husband and my children,
Speaker 2: and man, she was my trip, Corey everything, every other
Speaker 2: reason I knew, I knew why I was there. I
Speaker 2: wasn't there for one hundred and twenty people I would
Speaker 2: see on Friday. I wasn't there for the two hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty I would talk to on Saturday. I was
Speaker 2: there for that one person. And if God would have
Speaker 2: taken me home in that moment, my life would have
Speaker 2: been complete. You know what I mean. I mean when
Speaker 2: we when that one person is affected as you and
Speaker 2: I were affected, when we knew we never had to
Speaker 2: return to that nonsense again. We were changed, man. And
Speaker 2: when when we can say something or do something or
Speaker 2: be an example of what recovery is to make a person,
Speaker 2: that help facilitate a person staying when they wanted to leave, Dude,
Speaker 2: that's that's the greatest feeling. It's just like, take me
Speaker 2: home now, God, because it's not going to get any
Speaker 2: better than this. It's and that's what we live for. Man.
Speaker 1: Like I said, we could bottle it up, but we can't.
Speaker 1: And just when you see it flipping people, when you
Speaker 1: see them make the changes, and it's it's so rewarding.
Speaker 1: It's beyond money. It's beyond anything, and it's it's a
Speaker 1: soul fulfilling thing that we do, you know, and we
Speaker 1: want more of it, you know. And some people like
Speaker 1: you're addicted to recovery. Okay, Yeah, it's working out pretty
Speaker 1: good for me, you know, Like I don't know. I
Speaker 1: look back now and I go, which, of course I
Speaker 1: know why because God was trying to show me this
Speaker 1: is what you need to do. But if I would
Speaker 1: have just listened before, you know, like, why did I
Speaker 1: fight it so hard?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 1: Alcohol didn't make me run faster, didn't make me better
Speaker 1: on the radio, it didn't do anything good in my life.
Speaker 1: Why did I fight it so hard? You know? And
Speaker 1: that's the addiction part of it. And that's how I
Speaker 1: kind of explained to people too, And that's that's a
Speaker 1: good way for it to make sense to them, you know.
Speaker 1: And my sister is or isn't going through a thing.
Speaker 1: She has to figure it out on her own, you know.
Speaker 1: Mom was like, oh, talk to her, talk to her.
Speaker 1: What she's want to hear it? You know, like if
Speaker 1: you don't have a problem, you don't have a problem,
Speaker 1: right right, But my phone's here, she can call me
Speaker 1: whatever she wants, you know, And As long as she
Speaker 1: doesn't ask me for money for my nephew's baseball team,
Speaker 1: I'm good. I was like, if you want to ask
Speaker 1: people for money, you can come work for my nonprofit.
Speaker 1: But you got to be sober, you know, like you
Speaker 1: got to be in recovery. And she's like, oh, well yeah,
Speaker 1: But my point is though, to try to talk to
Speaker 1: somebody who doesn't want to hear it, it's kind of
Speaker 1: like okay, But to be around, to be available for
Speaker 1: when they do need it, that's what we can do.
Speaker 1: You know, there are some people we're just stage two
Speaker 1: on their journey and they got ten more to go.
Speaker 1: They'll remember it just like I did, just like you did.
Speaker 1: You know, we might have not just fell right into it.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I get it, but it takes this guy,
Speaker 1: that guy, this woman, that person, this preacher, that other guy.
Speaker 1: You just take it all and then finally when you
Speaker 1: can just put it on the table and just scoop
Speaker 1: it all up to you and go, let's just take
Speaker 1: all this in and let's start trying this way. And
Speaker 1: when it flips for you, when it becomes why would
Speaker 1: I drink today? That's a horrible idea. You start patting
Speaker 1: yourself on the back. There was a guy in AA
Speaker 1: meeting that was like, I'm tired of people patting themselves
Speaker 1: on the back for stuff they should be doing anyway.
Speaker 1: And I raised my hands and I got to man,
Speaker 1: because the old me wouldn't have done that. The old
Speaker 1: me would have not seen those red flags, started dating
Speaker 1: this person started doing that. That would have been the
Speaker 1: old me. I pat myself on the back because I
Speaker 1: caught myself and I am changing, you know. And when
Speaker 1: I see those changes in myself, hell yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: pat myself on the back. Just because you think I
Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing it anyway. That's your opinion, you know,
Speaker 1: and I have nothing I can do about that. But
Speaker 1: for me, I'm going to pat myself on the back,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: And that's one of the reasons that I call myself
Speaker 2: a recovered alcoholic. And that's mainly because I read the book, right.
Speaker 2: I read the forward to the first edition and tells
Speaker 2: me I've recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind
Speaker 2: and body to show others how we have recovered as
Speaker 2: precisely why we wrote this book. Then it goes on
Speaker 2: to say, we hope this book is so convincing that
Speaker 2: no further authentication is necessary. So you know, what else
Speaker 2: do you have to do? But it's interesting because I'm
Speaker 2: going to digress a little bit to back what you
Speaker 2: said in terms of being a person of recovery. And
Speaker 2: there was a person who I remembered them from the
Speaker 2: podium early on in my journey, and they said their
Speaker 2: middle name was more m Ore. My middle name is
Speaker 2: more and blah blah blah. And they said, when I
Speaker 2: was out there ripping and running, when I was out
Speaker 2: there drinking and using a horn around and all the
Speaker 2: things that we do to make our feel good feel good,
Speaker 2: he said, it was more of everything else. It was
Speaker 2: more drugs, It was more alcohol, it was more sex,
Speaker 2: it was more gambling. It was more this, more that,
Speaker 2: more and more, more and more and more. He said.
Speaker 2: I came to believe that I'm a person of more.
Speaker 2: I'm a person of excess. So now my more is
Speaker 2: still more. It's what the more is that's different. I
Speaker 2: didn't have to change the more because that's dialed into
Speaker 2: my personality type. I'm a person who appreciates excessiveness and
Speaker 2: and and more is my middle name, So I adopted that.
Speaker 2: So my middle name is more, and it's more recovery, more, big, book,
Speaker 2: more twelve step, more, service, more, serving, more God more
Speaker 2: everything that really makes me feel good, feel good. I
Speaker 2: do everything to excess. I still do everything alcoholically. It's
Speaker 2: what I do alcoholically. See, I can be treated or
Speaker 2: I can be untreated. And when I was untreated, you
Speaker 2: best believe I did everything alcoholically. Well, I still do,
Speaker 2: but I just do everything alcoholically as a treated alcoholic.
Speaker 2: And I make no apologies for being a recovered alcoholic.
Speaker 2: I had to make apologies left and right for being
Speaker 2: an untreated alcoholic. So when people say, well, who's counting, well,
Speaker 2: I'm freaking counting. I counted every day when I was
Speaker 2: out there and read more. How can I do this
Speaker 2: one more time? How can I disappoint? My daughter was
Speaker 2: critical of me minute by minute. Sometimes I'm taking credit
Speaker 2: on behalf of God for every day I'm sober. So
Speaker 2: people don't want to count. I'm a counter. I encounted
Speaker 2: everything when I was out there. Trust me, I'm counting
Speaker 2: everything in here because every day is a gift. And
Speaker 2: why wouldn't you count a gift? Doesn't make any sense
Speaker 2: to me, And I am a logical person. I like
Speaker 2: to figure it out. I like to. I like to
Speaker 2: understand everything that's happened to me, you know, because I
Speaker 2: want to. I want to articulate what's happened. I want to.
Speaker 2: I'm not satisfied with just having dots on a page.
Speaker 2: I want the dots to be sorted. I want the
Speaker 2: dots to when you connect all those dots. I wanted
Speaker 2: to show a picture of recovery, and then I wanted
Speaker 2: to color in because it's that color. It says when
Speaker 2: newcomers outsiders are often amazed when we burst into merriment
Speaker 2: over a sea manly tragic situations says, But why shouldn't
Speaker 2: we laugh? For we have been we have recovered and
Speaker 2: be given the ability to help others. And that's what.
Speaker 2: And if people don't see me as happy, joys and free,
Speaker 2: if they don't see you and the people who work
Speaker 2: in your association as really being excited, why would they
Speaker 2: want it? I mean, every now and then, we were
Speaker 2: able to achieve mediocrity when we were out there. But no,
Speaker 2: we've chosen a way where we're happy, we're joyous, and
Speaker 2: we're free. We insist on enjoying life, The Big Book says,
Speaker 2: And if the Big Book says it you can trust
Speaker 2: I'm all in. I'm in the deep end of the pool,
Speaker 2: swimming as fast as I can.
Speaker 1: The part about having fun is something that we really
Speaker 1: embrace here, and it goes back to when I was
Speaker 1: working at a treatment center. Actually goes back to when
Speaker 1: I was in a treatment center as one of the
Speaker 1: mental So I was in mental behavioral health what are
Speaker 1: you want to call it. They were like, all right,
Speaker 1: let's play games. And I'm like, I don't play a game.
Speaker 1: I was like, no game I like is pictionary. And
Speaker 1: the lady's like, okay, well I'll write safe words on here,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, we don't want to know safe words,
Speaker 1: you know. So she did like ice cream cone and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But we did it. It was fun when
Speaker 1: I started working at the treatment center and I was like, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: like we did it one week because like these cooking
Speaker 1: shows were big, and I was like, hey, let's there's
Speaker 1: a cold kitchen downstairs with the food that you guys
Speaker 1: can make. Like, let who's in who wants to do
Speaker 1: a little cook off? You know, I'll give you the ingredients.
Speaker 1: You guys got to whip something up, and they had
Speaker 1: a blast and then I decided, well, let's let's do pictionary,
Speaker 1: you know. And it was X rated pictionary pretty much,
Speaker 1: you know. I got guys drawn wieners on the board
Speaker 1: and stuff. But they laughed so hard, and I heard
Speaker 1: it so many times of like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: don't remember last time I laughed so hard sober, and
Speaker 1: I'd have to remind them, when's the last time you
Speaker 1: laughed so hard when you were messed up up? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then thought about it and they're like, yeah, like yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think i've you know, it's been a lot
Speaker 1: time since I've laughed, you know. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: and you are sober and you can laugh and we
Speaker 1: can have fun. And still to this day, I'll have
Speaker 1: people come up to me and they'm like, hey, remember me.
Speaker 1: Happened this on Sunday, And I'm like I have. His
Speaker 1: face looked very familiar, and I was like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: remember you, and he was like, yeah, I was in
Speaker 1: you know, Dakowski and he worked there and we played pictionary.
Speaker 1: He was like, man, I laughed my ass. I was
Speaker 1: telling her about it. He's with his girlfriend, you know.
Speaker 1: He's like I was telling her about it, you know,
Speaker 1: And man, she didn't quite put it together, but you
Speaker 1: had to be there, I guess, you know. And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: because we were. We were doing some fun stuff and
Speaker 1: it was just out of the box. And normally, like
Speaker 1: when the new guys would come in and they're like,
Speaker 1: all right, it's Friday, Cory's here doing pictionary. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: the new guy would be like playing pictionary and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you got to call man, it's so much fun. New
Speaker 1: guy'd be like okay, and then he'd go in and
Speaker 1: he'd be laughing right along with it, and you know,
Speaker 1: like but it's just little things like that, little moments
Speaker 1: that you can bring to the table. And unfortunately they
Speaker 1: don't do that stuff now there. And I guess after
Speaker 1: I left, then another guy tried it and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't be doing pictionary, man, Like, probably shouldn't let
Speaker 1: Corey do that. You know, some of that stuffs inappropriate,
Speaker 1: you know, And I'm like, I don't know. It's funny though,
Speaker 1: And I don't know what someone's gonna draw. You know,
Speaker 1: Like one time I put therapist on there and I
Speaker 1: thought that was a pretty safe word. Well he draws
Speaker 1: like this person getting bent over a desk and I'm like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing? Like, what do you do with
Speaker 1: your therapist here? And he's like, oh, I thought it
Speaker 1: was the rapist and I was like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, that's a simple mistake. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess if you just space it out, you know,
Speaker 1: that's what it is. But yeah, I mean it was
Speaker 1: just like, oh my gosh, like but it was funny
Speaker 1: and we're all dying and then we what did I
Speaker 1: I put something up there? I don't even remember, but
Speaker 1: it was so much fun and people would interpret different
Speaker 1: words and then so we had a little thing where
Speaker 1: they would call me in the hallway if they didn't
Speaker 1: know what it was, you know, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: this is what it is, you know, And I don't know.
Speaker 1: But it was just a good time and create that
Speaker 1: fun atmosphere to get people to laugh. And we do
Speaker 1: an event every month here we go to which really
Speaker 1: wasn't that fun. I mean it was fun. We went
Speaker 1: to a Tigers game. They're just not very good. I
Speaker 1: mean they're not the White Sox, so hey that's good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thank goodness, they're not the Guardian. Yeah. Have
Speaker 2: they won thirty four games this year or something crazy.
Speaker 1: Gosh, I mean they're bad. Like, I kind of want
Speaker 1: to get some autographs from that team because I think
Speaker 1: it could be worth something, you know, lose some more games,
Speaker 1: maybe get the record. I don't know if that's even possible,
Speaker 1: but I know they're a horrible team. But we went
Speaker 1: to a Lions game. Now we can't get tickets to
Speaker 1: the Lions because.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, everybody loves that. There's supposed to be one
Speaker 2: of the number one teams to give along with San Francisco,
Speaker 2: according to PTI, along with San Francisco, to give the
Speaker 2: Chiefs a run for their money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Ravens. Yeah, it'll it'll be good. But two
Speaker 1: years ago they were just on the come up. I
Speaker 1: think they just missed the playoffs but one game. But
Speaker 1: they gave us some gray seats Lions, did you know,
Speaker 1: And it's like, wow, that's awesome. And then since they
Speaker 1: didn't give us tickets last year, they're like, we're sold out,
Speaker 1: we have no tickets to give you, but we'll give
Speaker 1: you an autograph football And we auctioned it off at
Speaker 1: one of our speaking events that we hold once a
Speaker 1: quarter and so you know, it did help raise some
Speaker 1: money for us, and that was good, you know, because
Speaker 1: we can still keep helping people, and it's just those
Speaker 1: things that we can show people, like, hey, this is
Speaker 1: what we do, and this is what we did, and
Speaker 1: cooking classes. We did a fishing event because in Michigan
Speaker 1: twice a year they do free fishing Day where you
Speaker 1: don't need a license. So we got seven sober living
Speaker 1: homes within our area here, so we're like, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: let's go. We got some polls and took people fishing
Speaker 1: and then it rained.
Speaker 2: Of course, but you've touched on something really important because
Speaker 2: on page seventeen, and I know I alluded to it
Speaker 2: early on in our conversation. And there's a solution. It says,
Speaker 2: there's a fellowship, camaraderie, joyousness, and democracy. Pervade the vessel
Speaker 2: from Stairs to Captain's Table says, even our joint escape
Speaker 2: from disaster does not subside as we go our own
Speaker 2: individual ways. The feeling of having shared and a common
Speaker 2: peril is one element in the powerful cement which now
Speaker 2: binds us. And there's there's a unity there. And even
Speaker 2: even the preamble of Alcoholics Anonymous says, Alcoholics Anonymous is
Speaker 2: a fellowship of men and women who share their experienced
Speaker 2: strength and help with each other, that we might solve
Speaker 2: our common parbleament to help others who recover from alcoholism.
Speaker 2: I tell people often, and maybe this was true of you,
Speaker 2: and I know certain certain so many people like us.
Speaker 2: The fellowship held me long enough for me to admit
Speaker 2: I was alcoholic. And once I admitted I was alcoholic,
Speaker 2: then the twelve steps of recovery became necessary. But the Fellowship,
Speaker 2: before I was ready to admit to my innermo self
Speaker 2: that I was alcoholic, I coudmit out loud because I
Speaker 2: wanted to be like you. But that true surrender, that
Speaker 2: that true submission of recognizing who I was, what I did,
Speaker 2: and the depth that I had gone, It was the
Speaker 2: Fellowship that kept me there long enough for the for
Speaker 2: the the roots of recovery to take hold. That I
Speaker 2: became unmovable and you i'll and to this day I
Speaker 2: love the fellowship. Fellowship is not recovery any more than
Speaker 2: recovery is fellowship. It takes both. But I think before
Speaker 2: recovery can take root, fellowship needs to hold us in
Speaker 2: one place long enough for those roots to take place.
Speaker 2: Because even if I, even if I took a patch
Speaker 2: of grass or anything. If I if I tried to
Speaker 2: replant a small house plant every single day, it would
Speaker 2: never take root, it would it would eventual die. But
Speaker 2: if I leave it there long enough and roots begin
Speaker 2: to develop, there are come a time where you can't
Speaker 2: move that plant anymore. You know, You've got to dig
Speaker 2: it out. You've got to really, you know, because the
Speaker 2: roots become so viable and so strong. And that's I
Speaker 2: think what the Fellowship does for us, and you have
Speaker 2: probably found that true in your recovery journey as well.
Speaker 2: The Fellowship is is is something that everyone ought to experience.
Speaker 1: It's part of the people places things man.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, like when people first told me about the
Speaker 1: people places and things, I was like, well, I'm not
Speaker 1: hanging out with anybody who's drinking. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: the bars. I'm not Well. You need to go to
Speaker 1: those places. You need to find those people. You can't
Speaker 1: just sit on your couch and wait for mister opportunity
Speaker 1: to come knocking, because that's not going to happen. You know,
Speaker 1: the more you put yourself out there with different people,
Speaker 1: with good people who are doing good things, You're going
Speaker 1: to find opportunities. It's just it's the numbers game almost,
Speaker 1: you know, like people will ask you, oh, do you
Speaker 1: need help or do you would you like to do this?
Speaker 1: Or you'll be surprised by the opportunities that come along
Speaker 1: and the good people that you'll meet, and those are
Speaker 1: the people that you want to be around, you know,
Speaker 1: not saying that everybody who's using is bad. They're just
Speaker 1: stuck in a place that if you're in early recovery,
Speaker 1: you don't want to You shouldn't be associated with those
Speaker 1: people because you're still very vulnerable. And it's very simple,
Speaker 1: Like I was saying the other day, we just need
Speaker 1: a little sliver of an excuse. We don't need a
Speaker 1: big one. I said it earlier. Know, just oh, lose
Speaker 1: my lighter and I'm out, you know, like, let's go
Speaker 1: I'm having a bad day, turn my power off and
Speaker 1: I'll know. I'll sit there and that's okay. I figured
Speaker 1: it was going to get cut off. That sucks. Did
Speaker 1: you steal my lotder? Let's go fight, you know, Like
Speaker 1: it's the little things that we can't handle. But when
Speaker 1: we start to learn and we start to not react,
Speaker 1: it does become easier. And the people that I get
Speaker 1: to meet along the way like you. I was excited.
Speaker 1: I've been wanting to do a podcast with you for
Speaker 1: a while. It's been so long, it seems like one
Speaker 1: hundred years. You know, like time just goes by so
Speaker 1: much slower. I don't I don't even know how to
Speaker 1: explain it, but it's faster at the same time. So
Speaker 1: it seems like we talked years and years and years ago.
Speaker 1: It's been a couple of years. But you know, I
Speaker 1: follow you on Instagram and Facebook and all that, and
Speaker 1: why are you beefing with a guy recovery Guy dot
Speaker 1: calm or something because your website's Recovery Guy dot org. Right, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1: And then another guy came out and he had Recovery
Speaker 1: Guy dot calm or something something like that. I mean,
Speaker 1: this was a while ago too, This was like fifty
Speaker 1: years ago, you know, And I was like, oh man.
Speaker 1: And then I remember one time he reached out to
Speaker 1: me and he had asked me about something about a
Speaker 1: vape or something, or about something that people were doing,
Speaker 1: and you were like, oh man, I'm not not keen
Speaker 1: on what's going on, and I can't remember the details
Speaker 1: of it, but those are times where I wanted to
Speaker 1: reach out. I don't remember what was going on. Maybe
Speaker 1: we're going to a Lion's game or something, but like
Speaker 1: to actually have the time, and I appreciate you taking
Speaker 1: the time today, you know, to sit down and chat
Speaker 1: with me, you know. And I just love these just
Speaker 1: chatting about recovery, like I love talking about it. It's
Speaker 1: something that just gets in my soul and it just
Speaker 1: makes me feel good. And to see a smiling face
Speaker 1: someone who's doing great, someone who's done great, and I
Speaker 1: can look up to you and go, look, you know,
Speaker 1: like life doesn't have to end, you know, like it's
Speaker 1: just going to keep getting better. And I was staying
Speaker 1: about my employee earlier about he's just scratching the surface
Speaker 1: of what he's going to become. I kind of feel
Speaker 1: like that is where I'm at my journey too.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: People will be like, oh, Corey, you guys are really
Speaker 1: blowing up. You did this, and oh man, you're doing great.
Speaker 1: Like man, I'm just scratching the surface.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I want to make a movie, I want to write
Speaker 1: a book. I'm going to do all this stuff. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make a short film this fall. I gotta wait
Speaker 1: for the trees to change. Nice, beautiful orange trees in Michigan.
Speaker 1: Love it. But to make my film my short film,
Speaker 1: because to make a normal, long, full length film, I
Speaker 1: don't know how to do that. But I was like,
Speaker 1: I'll just start with a sh short film. If I
Speaker 1: can do that good, then I'll move on. But you know,
Speaker 1: until I can make a good short film, why would
Speaker 1: I want to go take on this task that's overwhelming,
Speaker 1: you know, like start baby stuff it. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to
Speaker 1: make a movie, but doesn't mean I can't.
Speaker 2: You know. One of the things that I'm so grateful for,
Speaker 2: you know, in terms of time is I got to
Speaker 2: the rooms of AA when I was thirty two, and
Speaker 2: I'm seventy now, and i'd lived thirty eight years in recovery.
Speaker 2: And I'm so fortunate that before health problems crept in
Speaker 2: got worse, I was able to find the rooms of recovery,
Speaker 2: or the rooms of recovery found me. But I've been
Speaker 2: able to reinvent myself and reclaim everything that ever lost.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel like job, you know, I lost everything,
Speaker 2: and yet today the things that I have are more
Speaker 2: than I ever imagine, you know, And I just want
Speaker 2: to do everything I can to encourage everyone to just
Speaker 2: count every day as a blessing. I've lived eight years
Speaker 2: longer than my dad. And my dad had seven years
Speaker 2: of sobriety when he died, and I have thirty eight years.
Speaker 2: And it's amazing what happens when we surrender, you know,
Speaker 2: like you surrendered and the people that you know that
Speaker 2: you come in contact, but they've surrendered because without surrender,
Speaker 2: we're going to fight a battle we can't win. An
Speaker 2: addiction is one of those battles. In order for the
Speaker 2: twelve steps of recovery to work, I have to surrender,
Speaker 2: you know, I have to admit that I'm powerless of
Speaker 2: our alcohol, that my life had become unmanageable. And you know,
Speaker 2: the insanity of my addiction doesn't occur, doesn't rear its
Speaker 2: ugly head until I get sober. It's not like it's
Speaker 2: not like it happens when I'm drinking. It happens when
Speaker 2: I'm sober. And as our friend Bob Darryl Bob Dee says,
Speaker 2: being sober is like doing time. You know, we have
Speaker 2: to get onto the steps. We have to turn our
Speaker 2: willingness life over the care of God. As we understood him.
Speaker 2: We have to do that inventory. We have to admit,
Speaker 2: we have to be ready for God to remove the
Speaker 2: defects of character. Then we have to humbly ask him
Speaker 2: to move the shortcomings. And then we have to be
Speaker 2: willing to make amendsus to people that we harmed along
Speaker 2: the way, and then we lead to live that journey
Speaker 2: out one day to time for the rest of our life.
Speaker 2: And for me and for guys like you, there is
Speaker 2: no other.
Speaker 4: Way for us. We've tried the other ways. If the
Speaker 4: other ways were there were a lot easier than this,
Speaker 4: we'd have done them. And yet it took everything that
Speaker 4: I lost to gain everything that I have. And we're
Speaker 4: fortunate because how many men and women have died along
Speaker 4: the way. How many statistics are out there.
Speaker 2: You know. I'm saddened oftentimes when I go into the
Speaker 2: rooms and that I'm the exception, not the rule, you know.
Speaker 2: And rarely do I see a person in the rooms
Speaker 2: of alcoholics anonymous, rarely that is sober ten, twelve, fifteen years.
Speaker 2: You just don't see it, you know. And I'll if
Speaker 2: I ever leave, I will be not grateful for the person,
Speaker 2: the persons who were there, and I arrived you know,
Speaker 2: and to show them how grateful I am is one
Speaker 2: of the reasons that I stay. I can never leave,
Speaker 2: and I could not be happier, you know, to see
Speaker 2: that newcomer come in wondering, you know, if they can
Speaker 2: never get their wife back, if they can never get
Speaker 2: their life back, if their mom and dad or brother
Speaker 2: and sister, you know, will ever forgive them, if they
Speaker 2: ever think they're going to be employable again. You remember
Speaker 2: what it was like, you know. They would say to me,
Speaker 2: it's three o'clock in the morning and the lights throughout
Speaker 2: and nobody else is there. You know what the truth
Speaker 2: is about you? And the truth for men like you
Speaker 2: and me was not too promising. You know, we pretended
Speaker 2: it was when we were drunk. We were high, We
Speaker 2: played the game, but we were lonely. We were lost,
Speaker 2: and we were more lost. We were afraid to admit
Speaker 2: how lost we really were, because then no one would
Speaker 2: like us. And then we come into the rooms of
Speaker 2: recovery and we run into a group of people who
Speaker 2: the more they know, the more they like. And I
Speaker 2: don't understand it to this day. Why they liked me,
Speaker 2: why they asked me to come back, But they did,
Speaker 2: and so I did because I had nowhere else to
Speaker 2: go and they wanted me, you know, where was I
Speaker 2: going to go. I'm glad I stayed, you know, and
Speaker 2: to see that light go on, you know, to see
Speaker 2: that person who you see for a second time, then
Speaker 2: a third time, then a fourth time, and next thing
Speaker 2: you know, they're working, you know, in recovery and treatment
Speaker 2: and trying to do whatever they can. They're sponsoring someone there,
Speaker 2: trying to show them a version of what you showed them.
Speaker 2: And you know, when my sponsor of thirty two thirty
Speaker 2: three years passed away at cancer five years ago, I said, Jack,
Speaker 2: what do I tell him? What do I say? And
Speaker 2: it is cancer filled voice? He said, Bob, tell him.
Speaker 2: It works. So that's the journey that guys like you
Speaker 2: and mayeron It just it just works.
Speaker 1: It's a great journey, man. And I'm glad that you
Speaker 1: came back, and I'm glad that you're here. And I
Speaker 1: look up to you, man, I really do. And I
Speaker 1: think you're doing great things and love seeing the stuff
Speaker 1: that you post. You're always posting beautiful pictures of you
Speaker 1: and your wife and a beautiful location and I'm like
Speaker 1: that dude's living it man, like one day, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be that guy, you know. And yeah, so I
Speaker 1: do look up to you and I follow you still.
Speaker 1: So even if I don't hit you up or you know,
Speaker 1: write you all the time, just know when you post
Speaker 1: a picture or he's going to see that, he's gonna
Speaker 1: let that one. You know. But but no, I love it,
Speaker 1: you know, I love what you're doing. And like I said,
Speaker 1: I look up to you and I appreciate you coming
Speaker 1: on the podcast today. We'll have to make it maybe
Speaker 1: not two years before we have you on again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I I would love the opportunity
Speaker 2: to get you know, you and your wife and Michelle
Speaker 2: and me, and we can do that ask at basket.
Speaker 1: That'd be awesome approach.
Speaker 2: We would love to do that and just talk about
Speaker 2: questions that we get in treatment centers because they're good,
Speaker 2: good questions man. Yeah, I mean we get I have
Speaker 2: a I have a basket full of questions that people
Speaker 2: ask me all the time. Newcomers or frans ln new
Speaker 2: wonder they can do it? You do? You do the same,
Speaker 2: And and you know, anytime you want me to come out,
Speaker 2: I will come out and I will speak. I'll spend
Speaker 2: a weekend talking to anyone you put me in front of.
Speaker 2: I would love to do.
Speaker 1: That, right, wait for all the vacationers to leave Travers City.
Speaker 1: Have you out?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been to Traverse City, been to Travers Mountain
Speaker 2: on a on a on a trip. Did you did
Speaker 2: I ever tell you I was born in Highland Park.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I have family in Lavonia and Detroit and
Speaker 2: tell me that. Yeah, yeah, I was born in Hunter Park,
Speaker 2: Detroit Osteopathy Hospital. Yeah yeah, that closed down for good reason.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm in Michigander.
Speaker 1: Well good, Yeah, I like it. That's why we bond.
Speaker 2: So well, there you go. We got the tube. Man.
Speaker 2: I was I when I was taking home from the hospital.
Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't too far from Eminem, you know,
Speaker 2: yeah before Eminem, before Marshall existed.
Speaker 1: Paved the way for him.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's me another white guy.
Speaker 1: That's true. All right, Robert. I appreciate you, man, and
Speaker 1: I'll be in touch and see if we can get
Speaker 1: you here, man, do some stuff and have some fun
Speaker 1: here and get you back to your home state.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll be great, man. I'll spend Friday, Saturday, Sunday,
Speaker 2: Like I say, just wind me up and put me
Speaker 2: in front of people at the treatment center. If you're
Speaker 2: having an event, just let me know, man, I'll show up.
Speaker 1: Okay, and then we'll we'll do that ask a basket.
Speaker 1: I'll get Marnie and you get Michelle, and I think
Speaker 1: that would be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, just let me have a time and
Speaker 2: I'll get it arranged according to all four of our
Speaker 2: schedules and we'll just make it work. All right.
Speaker 1: Sounds good, Robert, thanks again for joining me, and you
Speaker 1: have a blessed.
Speaker 2: Day, all right. Man, good to talk to you. Coreyboll
Speaker 2: you oh and God bless your journey.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the two seventeen Recovery podcast.
Speaker 4: Listen to over nine hundred episodes on the two seventeen
Speaker 4: Recovery app that's free in your app store or online
Speaker 4: at two seventeen recovery dot com.