Speaker 1: Stuck at home, bored and alone. You'd think I could
Speaker 1: have some fun on.
Speaker 2: My own, but not all. I called AF with Cecily
Speaker 2: and Stephanie.
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it is bored AF Patreon and we're doing
Speaker 1: something a little different.
Speaker 2: Not really, it's not really no, not at all. We're
Speaker 2: taking We're bringing you something that's a little I'm gonna
Speaker 2: just say a little twisty. It's a little twisty. It's like,
Speaker 2: that's that's the new word I'm using. It's twisty turney.
Speaker 2: It's topsy turvy.
Speaker 1: It's going one way and then it might go another way.
Speaker 1: You just don't you can't know. Can you start?
Speaker 2: I'll bring you into this kind. I have a lot.
Speaker 2: I have a lot of thoughts on this. We're gonna
Speaker 2: be talking today about Lindy West, which he wrote about
Speaker 2: the Modern Love you know column New York Times, Lindy
Speaker 2: West to Lindy West. If you don't know, she was
Speaker 2: a writer first, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Should I give you a little background on her? Do
Speaker 1: you want to give us a little background? Give you
Speaker 1: Lindy West wikipedia little flavor. She's an American writer, comedian,
Speaker 1: and activist. She's a comedian, She's the author of the
Speaker 1: essay collections Shrill. I feel like everybody knows that book
Speaker 1: notes from a loud woman, The Witches are coming and
Speaker 1: shit actually so. Topics she writes about include feminism, pop culture, film,
Speaker 1: and the fat acceptance movement, which we're against. Well, Cecily
Speaker 1: is Cesily is totally I am against it. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: against it, but just in a different way. Yeah, I'm yeah.
Speaker 1: I want people to just Yeah, that's a joke, guys,
Speaker 1: We're kidding.
Speaker 2: She and she has got It's funny. When we started
Speaker 2: talking about her, we're like, wait, what is it? How
Speaker 2: do we feel about her? Because we remember bird something happened,
Speaker 2: but we can't remember what it was like she she
Speaker 2: was annoying in one setting and I can't remember the setting.
Speaker 2: Well I do.
Speaker 1: I kind of remember what it was, and it was
Speaker 1: there was a time when the I don't want to
Speaker 1: say the left, it was. It was there was a
Speaker 1: time when people who are progressive were getting a very
Speaker 1: a little crazy and then celebrating themselves for their craziness
Speaker 1: kind of like, which is sort of what the book
Speaker 1: Trill like.
Speaker 2: I'm just that what the show was based on was Shrill.
Speaker 2: The TV show based on her book, Oh was it?
Speaker 2: It was really good on Hulu with What's her Face? Who?
Speaker 2: I love Addie, Addie Bryant, Ohky Bryant. Maybe as I
Speaker 2: don't know. I liked that show. Okay, so she I mean,
Speaker 2: I would look, but I have this story up so
Speaker 2: I can look in a second.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's here. I'll give you like a little bit
Speaker 1: more so that. Okay. She was a staff writer for
Speaker 1: Jezebelabelle was a little irritating.
Speaker 2: I got quoted of Jezebel once and I was so excited.
Speaker 2: Oh really she wrote me because of that.
Speaker 1: So she wrote a lot about like sexism and good
Speaker 1: for her, you know. Describing Wes's often comedic approach to
Speaker 1: serious issues, Dana order Ici wrote in The New York
Speaker 1: Times that West has changed more minds this way than
Speaker 1: you can count. One of the most distinctive voices advancing
Speaker 1: feminist politics through humor, she is behind a handful of
Speaker 1: popular pieces. How to make a rape joke on Jezebel,
Speaker 1: Hello I Am Fat on the Stranger's blog, asks not
Speaker 1: for whom the bell trolls, It trolls for THEE on
Speaker 1: This American Life. Yeah, so she's trying to shift main
Speaker 1: attitudes about like, you know, fat stuff. Yeah about Kurt,
Speaker 1: Oh did you know this Kurt Metzker in twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: Kurt Metzger, who's a comedian who's not a writer for Amy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's pretty problematic. He feuded with Lindy and Jude
Speaker 1: Doyle via Facebook and Twitter during a defense of rape humor. Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe that's.
Speaker 2: What it was. Okay, but we wouldn't have been on
Speaker 2: his side, So I don't know. We're not sure how,
Speaker 2: we are not sure, but whatever, we had a feeling.
Speaker 2: But but then we got the feeling again. This this
Speaker 2: thing popped up, this photo and this article popped up
Speaker 2: in all of our feeds, not all we all follow
Speaker 2: different things, but in my algorithm, and it just says
Speaker 2: Lindy West thought she couldn't handle h lamp, I would
Speaker 2: glamory polyamory. Sorry, I thought she couldn't handle polyamory. She
Speaker 2: was wrong. Oh that's funny. When I first read it
Speaker 2: and said it to you, I was like, Okay, I
Speaker 2: love it. She tried to get all up in it
Speaker 2: but couldn't. But she did the exact opposite of what
Speaker 2: I get it now, So let's get into this First off,
Speaker 2: I have a little bit I listen. It's very common
Speaker 2: right now on the apps. Anytime you swipe and there's
Speaker 2: like kind of a good looking at you're like, what's
Speaker 2: wrong with them? And then you look at the first
Speaker 2: thing and it's like my wife and I was so happy,
Speaker 2: can't wait for you to meet her. They're so it's
Speaker 2: so in right now. I don't know if it's in
Speaker 2: all over the world or if it's just like an la
Speaker 2: New York thing. It feels very la to me, like
Speaker 2: like somebody gave somebody a mantra. This just feels But
Speaker 2: I do know that it does work for some people.
Speaker 2: I have a couple friends. They both they both happen
Speaker 2: to be guys, and I have not met their ladies. Well,
Speaker 2: one of them just split up with somebody, and I
Speaker 2: wanted to be like, did you split up with all
Speaker 2: of them or just the one? Because you're all sad.
Speaker 2: It seems like you'd be MOPI times five, right, So
Speaker 2: I don't get it. But there's like I guess there's
Speaker 2: like a main squeeze that they marry or something, and
Speaker 2: then when that splits, it all falls apart. But you
Speaker 2: date with the date yet it's very organized. These people
Speaker 2: very very organized.
Speaker 1: Now I could be completely wrong, Okay, so I could
Speaker 1: just be talking out of my ask, but it feels
Speaker 1: from people, from some other people that I've known that
Speaker 1: have done this, that it kind of benefits the guy
Speaker 1: usually more than the woman. I mean, it seems to
Speaker 1: be usually the guy that has more, you know, girlfriends.
Speaker 2: And think about it, the only difference between polyamory and
Speaker 2: polygamy is the getting married part. Like, it's weird that
Speaker 2: we're like, polygamy is outlawed, you can't marry all these ladies,
Speaker 2: but polyamory is the coolest thing ever. Good luck everybody.
Speaker 2: Not that you would ever outlaw how somebody wants to date, you.
Speaker 1: Know, well, you would outlaw how somebody wants to marry
Speaker 1: multiple people.
Speaker 2: They're not weird. We shouldn't even outlaw polygamy. If people
Speaker 2: want to fucking do it, do it. I don't care.
Speaker 1: Do I care?
Speaker 2: Why would we care? I guess legal, I mean, why
Speaker 2: would we I don't think we should stop whoever wants
Speaker 2: to marry. If they're all consenting and willing participants, then
Speaker 2: why do we outlaw polygamy and embrace polyamory? It makes
Speaker 2: no fucking sense.
Speaker 1: You know what, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2: I don't want any part of it that said personally,
Speaker 2: oh thank you, no, thank you. But I guess Lindy
Speaker 2: had a different vibe feel about this, So I'm going
Speaker 2: to read what was I think about?
Speaker 1: I think what what caught people about this was the
Speaker 1: fact that she's very as she you know, self proclaimed shrill,
Speaker 1: which means that she's super opinionated and super feminist. And
Speaker 1: it feels, I think it would feel to most people like, oh,
Speaker 1: but you're willing to like, but you're not good enough
Speaker 1: for guided to be committed to you.
Speaker 2: You have to share and they can date too. She
Speaker 2: could have boyfriends too. It's very open. It's just like
Speaker 2: open and they have they have their set boundaries and
Speaker 2: stuff that is not like yeah, so and just you know,
Speaker 2: have an idea. She's in this picture. She's got very
Speaker 2: very short baby banks, pink hair and nose ring, lots
Speaker 2: of tuttooes. That's what's going on here. Lot going on.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's kind of the polyamory uniform.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's funny you say that, because I was gonna
Speaker 2: say that, but I didn't know if that was the
Speaker 2: right thing. To say because a friend of mine said,
Speaker 2: let me say it. Well, I just was like, I
Speaker 2: don't know because my friend said a guy friend said
Speaker 2: that to me. When when it was proposed to me,
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that is so not my thing.
Speaker 2: It's hard for me to say no to anything that's
Speaker 2: like not my thing. I'm just but this was such
Speaker 2: a hard no. There's so many things like I was like, oh, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: this isn't going to be difficult for me not into it.
Speaker 2: And then my friend was like, yeah, do you ever
Speaker 2: look at those worlds like they're not like the hot
Speaker 2: It's not like like the hotest people. Right. I'm not
Speaker 2: sure why that is a rod stereotype. There are people
Speaker 2: listening that are probably polyamorous, and then there are hot
Speaker 2: as fuck. Prove us wrong out yourselves.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's the same idea as a lot
Speaker 1: of nudists are not anything that you'd pay money to
Speaker 1: look at, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. It's unfortunate that that's the way
Speaker 2: it often goes, but it is okay. So this woman,
Speaker 2: Anne Martin wrote about this after interviewing her Lindy, and
Speaker 2: she started out with whether non monogamy comes up in
Speaker 2: conversation with my friends. We are thirty somethings in Brooklyn,
Speaker 2: so this is already going to be a little different
Speaker 2: than how we see things. Well, we don't even it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter what she says, So she says the writer
Speaker 2: Lindy West hoped non monogamy would stay hypothetical for her too.
Speaker 2: At the end of her Moving and Hilario's first memore, Okay, Shrill,
Speaker 2: she marries the love of her life. She calls them
Speaker 2: Aham because it's hard to pronounce his name. But there
Speaker 2: was something she didn't share with the readers at the time.
Speaker 2: Aham did not want their relationship to be monogamous, and
Speaker 2: while Lindy agreed to this in theory, she hoped it
Speaker 2: would never become an issue. So this is the interview.
Speaker 2: So Anne is like, Lindy, towards the hand your book,
Speaker 2: you got married to your husband A and I think
Speaker 2: that's in the I think that's in Shrill too. It
Speaker 2: might be a hom ah a m it was a
Speaker 2: big deal for you. And then she's like, well, I
Speaker 2: haven't thought about it in a while. I love that.
Speaker 2: Lindy's first response in this thing is like Hmmm, we've
Speaker 2: been married so long, I don't even remember what it
Speaker 2: was like to be Yeah, I haven't even thought about
Speaker 2: that moment. Yeah, but she does say she always is
Speaker 2: kind of lonely and single and sad in yearning and
Speaker 2: growing up. And this is her words in a fat Body,
Speaker 2: people tell you no one will ever love you unless
Speaker 2: you fix your body. Then, being a very visual woman
Speaker 2: on the Internet, strangers are just telling me every single day.
Speaker 2: So that's really sad. So she talks about that a
Speaker 2: little bit. So then Martin asked again, so when you
Speaker 2: got married, what did you hope your future would look like? Like,
Speaker 2: let's get into this right right, She's like, I just
Speaker 2: imagined we would stay on that sort of traditional track.
Speaker 2: I thought we would have a baby and buy a
Speaker 2: house and continue to work together. A hom is an artist,
Speaker 2: and I work on his shows nearly helps me with
Speaker 2: my writing, and I think I envisioned as a happy marriage.
Speaker 2: And then Martin's like, wholl, It's interesting that you bring
Speaker 2: up the word classic because you have that book out
Speaker 2: it's called Adult Races, and in this book you share
Speaker 2: a piece of information about your marriage to a hom Sorry,
Speaker 2: and that was not classic. You sure he was non monogamous.
Speaker 2: So she's like, yeah, we briefly broke up in twenty eleven.
Speaker 2: She goes on to things that were not going right
Speaker 2: in her life. She says, I've been divorced, she'd been well,
Speaker 2: her dad passed, a tree fell in her house, bad time.
Speaker 1: So she was engaged. So they broke off the engagement
Speaker 1: because of those things.
Speaker 2: Well I'm not sure what the timeline, but she does
Speaker 2: say she'd already been divorced twice by the age of
Speaker 2: twenty seven. Wow. Information. Yeah, she's twenty seven getting married
Speaker 2: for a third time.
Speaker 1: So she's a little difficult as it is. So maybe
Speaker 1: she's like, shit, last chance, this guy wants to fuck
Speaker 1: other people? Okay, I guess right, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So she's like, so Martin said, emotionally, how was
Speaker 2: this all hitting you? And she's like, yeah, it made
Speaker 2: intellectual sense to me, and in fact, it always made
Speaker 2: intellectual sense to me. Pallamory. I was like, I understand
Speaker 2: how this works and why people do it. I just
Speaker 2: don't personally have the self esteem to cope with it.
Speaker 2: For me, I don't think it's the self esteem. I
Speaker 2: think it's just annoying to me. It's just I'm finding
Speaker 2: it annoying facing it a lot. Wow.
Speaker 1: Why Well for me, I think it would be kind
Speaker 1: of a self esteem thing, but also like I don't
Speaker 1: want to have to compete for like my person, Like
Speaker 1: I don't want to have to go like, well, what
Speaker 1: am I coming home to tonight? Like or if i'm
Speaker 1: you know, what is it going to be? Like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm on my period. Well that hasn't happened in twenty
Speaker 1: feve And that's like in Big Love, they would have
Speaker 1: issues like that. Imagine having to be married to Bill Paxton.
Speaker 1: Imagine your sister you have to like all these you're
Speaker 1: not sister wives because you're not married, although they are,
Speaker 1: I guess, but only one.
Speaker 2: There's a main couple that gets married. So that's kind
Speaker 2: of how it works. So she said, so Wes said. So,
Speaker 2: it wasn't him saying I'm going to go out and
Speaker 2: date people. We were a couple who loved each other
Speaker 2: desperately getting back together. So this wasn't a moment when
Speaker 2: either of us were like, Okay, I want to go
Speaker 2: out and find someone else. Where we landed was if
Speaker 2: we want to be together for the rest of our lives.
Speaker 2: Who knows what's going to happen in ten twenty years now?
Speaker 2: That makes sense to me. Now that kind of makes sense, Like,
Speaker 2: you don't know in twenty years if you're going to
Speaker 2: want to have an affair or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it all passed. Well, that doesn't make sense
Speaker 1: to me at all. That's like, okay, so you're going
Speaker 1: into it going like I mean, chances are not great.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, then don't get married then, just be
Speaker 1: bo said friend.
Speaker 2: She's like, once it was reframed as something that we
Speaker 2: were going to deal with eventually, and I love to procrastinate.
Speaker 2: I love to put things off. So they're kicking the can. Okay.
Speaker 2: So she's like, which was unfair to him because he
Speaker 2: really was telling me something that was important to him.
Speaker 2: So I get that too. She's like, it's never going
Speaker 2: to happen, this is going to happen.
Speaker 1: Well, so it also depends on how he was phrasing it,
Speaker 1: because I could also imagine the guy being like, I
Speaker 1: mean what if like and you're like, okay, but we're together,
Speaker 1: so like that's probably not going to happen. And yeah,
Speaker 1: a month later, he's like, Hey, I met somebody I.
Speaker 2: Want to bang this lady I like you to bang
Speaker 2: her too. That's my impression. Okay, go on, he said
Speaker 2: it says this is weird. She said. So every time
Speaker 2: a hom ahm initiated any kind of hard conversation, even
Speaker 2: if it was just like, you need to do the
Speaker 2: dishes right after you cook. We're going to hold on
Speaker 2: that for a second. Yeah, I would pick someone some feminist.
Speaker 2: Oh this might be where we lost our way with her.
Speaker 2: What what what you know?
Speaker 1: Even just when he would say like, hey, I've got
Speaker 1: to smack you, I've got to just have give you
Speaker 1: a corrective, I'd be like, what that hurts?
Speaker 2: You got a smart mouth? Hey, oh, next we're gonna
Speaker 2: have to talk about polyamory again. Oh my god, let
Speaker 2: me read that again. Even if it was something just
Speaker 2: like this is sposed to be the simple thing, the
Speaker 2: light thing, you need to do the dishes right after
Speaker 2: you cook, I would react like someone was chasing me
Speaker 2: with a knife. Well, I mean, yeah, okay, there's different
Speaker 2: things that play here, I feel like and then she's
Speaker 2: so okay. So she was scared every conversation was going
Speaker 2: to be like I'm dating someone. As we just discussed, right,
Speaker 2: what a horrible way to live.
Speaker 1: I know, I don't like this guy. I'm glad she
Speaker 1: does any of this.
Speaker 2: Okay, So he's so, she says, in twenty nineteen, I
Speaker 2: found out someone who knew what a Ham looks like
Speaker 2: and had seen him kissing someone at a bar. I
Speaker 2: don't like that either, because I know thought the whole
Speaker 2: thing was that you're open. Like the guy that I
Speaker 2: met was so nice, by the way, and he does
Speaker 2: live this lifestyle and tried to sort of explain it
Speaker 2: to me. But the idea is that it's so on
Speaker 2: the up and up right, it's cheating. In fact, it's
Speaker 2: like the opposite. It's so it's like think James Spader
Speaker 2: and like what was that show the lies, Sexalize and
Speaker 2: videotape that he couldn't not be honest that was part
Speaker 2: of his like healing, right.
Speaker 1: So yeah, this this is terrible. Ah.
Speaker 2: So someone saw him kissing someone at a bar.
Speaker 1: Aha Aha.
Speaker 2: I went home and we talked for the rest of
Speaker 2: the night, and at this point he had some sort
Speaker 2: of he had come to some sort of conclusion that
Speaker 2: we couldn't resolve this, which is why he went ahead
Speaker 2: and started dating this person.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, God, that is such a fucking gross
Speaker 1: thing to say. Well, I just could tell that you
Speaker 1: weren't really gonna want to talk about it, so I
Speaker 1: just decided to just do it. You're married.
Speaker 2: So Martin said, did you feel like you were losing
Speaker 2: him then? And She's like, yes, I felt like I
Speaker 2: was losing him, but I was determined to win. I
Speaker 2: was like, you're being crazy. I'm the greatest person alive
Speaker 2: because I also have high self esteem in addition to
Speaker 2: low self esteem. I let myself be angry and every
Speaker 2: possible direction, which was cathartic. And there's a picture of
Speaker 2: her that i't want to talk about.
Speaker 1: Then she says, finding out one of the reasons we
Speaker 1: were irritated by her because she is hypocritical, okay.
Speaker 2: And we're all you know, we're all complicated being right.
Speaker 2: I get that. So then so Martin says, well, at
Speaker 2: this point, did you ask more questions about this person
Speaker 2: that ham was seeing? Did you start did you get curious?
Speaker 2: And Wes says nope. Well I think I was like,
Speaker 2: don't tell me anything about this stupid person. I don't
Speaker 2: want to know. I was like full child self having
Speaker 2: a tantrum. Girl, No, you were not having a tea from.
Speaker 1: Your husband was cheating on. Oh my god, Oh gosh,
Speaker 1: I just really overreact.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, it's just me being like. So then she's like,
Speaker 2: I was like, is she prettier than me? Do you
Speaker 2: love her more than me? Do you guys laugh at me?
Speaker 2: Of course you're gonna ask those questions, right I'm asking them, Okay,
Speaker 2: go on, I'm asking those questions about him, about ham
Speaker 2: feeling about me. I got to get in there. So
Speaker 2: Martin said, do you remember what he said to that question?
Speaker 2: And she said, he said no, he said she he's
Speaker 2: a oh race herself. She said, he said, she's a
Speaker 2: really good person and you're just different. You're my wife.
Speaker 2: I don't love anyone more than you. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: That makes me want to vomit. And I am i'mware
Speaker 2: near this relationship.
Speaker 1: So grossed out right now.
Speaker 2: You're being so judgmental, but I can't help it. This
Speaker 2: is crazy.
Speaker 1: But it's also because why are we getting a New
Speaker 1: York Times Like what are what is there to learn?
Speaker 1: Because the point of this is that it ended up
Speaker 1: being great? So where did let's get to the great part?
Speaker 1: I guess Okay, okay, So she's like, I didn't understand.
Speaker 1: I was like, man, we found the best thing. We're
Speaker 1: best friends and we get to hang out.
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah. Okay. So, so Martin says, eventually you
Speaker 2: were kind of forced to reckon with the fact that
Speaker 2: this person at Ham was dating was a pretty big
Speaker 2: part of his life. Tell me how you found that
Speaker 2: out and how it made you feel. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: this reporter is just trying to kill her. She said.
Speaker 2: He told me that her name was Roya. Oh and
Speaker 2: she was, and she was one of the artistic directors
Speaker 2: of events you in Portland. I am every ounce of me.
Speaker 2: It's like if my arms could throw up, they would
Speaker 2: throw up. She's an artistic her name's Roya. She made
Speaker 2: that name up. It's of the land. She director of
Speaker 2: a venue in Portland and had been and that had
Speaker 2: put on one of his shows as an artist. Yeah,
Speaker 2: started sucking her yes exactly. So this was nothing on
Speaker 2: the up and up. Just decided he wanted to be
Speaker 2: with this other person because they wouldn't talk about it,
Speaker 2: he said. She said, So I actually met her. This
Speaker 2: is Lindy talking. And she was so nice and just
Speaker 2: so just a little, tiny, little beautiful goth.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I she was a tiny, little, beautiful goth but very
Speaker 2: much of of the inverse of me in a lot
Speaker 2: of ways. And of course it made me feel wildly insecure. Okay,
Speaker 2: which she's all over the place. She's like, wonderful, it's wonderful.
Speaker 2: I felt really crazy. She's like one hundred pounds. It
Speaker 2: was so weird. They've been making out a really time.
Speaker 2: So Martin says, so a Ham sat you down, and
Speaker 2: I was like, so, I need to tell you more
Speaker 2: about this person. Wes says yes, because, oh my god,
Speaker 2: She goes yes, because her best friend died and she
Speaker 2: needed her support system there, and a Ham was part
Speaker 2: of the support system and a Ham needed to go
Speaker 2: to Portland. Wait a minute, so they didn't even live
Speaker 2: in Portland.
Speaker 1: What are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 2: Hey? Wait, needed to go to Porland, like move there,
Speaker 2: she said. And I remember being mad and being like
Speaker 2: I'm not ready, but then being like, but I don't
Speaker 2: want to be the kind of person that says someone
Speaker 2: important to you is in the unimagined and in unimaginable pain.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna I can't say no, you need to
Speaker 2: stay here with me, Yes, you can. Her husband, By god,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm kidding. So I like can't breathe. This is it.
Speaker 2: He says, it's crazy. And then she goes and simultaneously,
Speaker 2: I'm doing all this work and there, most of which
Speaker 2: is about me kind of remembering who I am. It's
Speaker 2: not working, it's not no, but apparently it did. All right,
Speaker 2: I'll skip because she talks a lot here about all that.
Speaker 2: So Martin's like, you're doing this personal work and you
Speaker 2: decide to embark on a kind of adventure of self discovery.
Speaker 2: The way these interview questions are written are I've done
Speaker 2: this before where I've done an interview and I had
Speaker 2: to reframe my questions based on the whatever they spewed.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you'll interview someone and they'll just talk and talk
Speaker 2: and talk, so you kind of have to insert questions
Speaker 2: that you didn't really ask. You ever done that? Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: Like so that is clearly what's happening here, because she
Speaker 2: said all this and it's such long answers, and Martin's like, so,
Speaker 2: you're doing this personal work and you decide to embark
Speaker 2: on a kind of adventure of self discovery. The Great
Speaker 2: American road Trip. Oh, this road trip factored into the
Speaker 2: work you were doing. Yeah, I'm sure that's all.
Speaker 1: We're going to bring it back to the work, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this bitch is getting cheated on so bad with some
Speaker 1: goth sprite who probably wears like fairy wings all the time,
Speaker 1: and you're going to go, like, but how did that
Speaker 1: play into your work? Your important work? She goes.
Speaker 2: So she's like, so I woke up one day this
Speaker 2: is what Wes said. And she's like, I was like, ah,
Speaker 2: I think I need to rent a van and go
Speaker 2: on a road trip by myself to Florida.
Speaker 1: I'm just that's okay.
Speaker 2: So, uh we do this, and Martin's like, this feels powerful.
Speaker 2: She's like, yeah, it did feel powerful, And I don't
Speaker 2: want it to sound like I'm sort of like rationalizing
Speaker 2: how to do non monogamy or like convincing myself to
Speaker 2: do it because ahem wants it. By this point, I'm
Speaker 2: feeling this freedom and lightness and openness and it feels
Speaker 2: very true to me at this point. Right, let's get
Speaker 2: to when they hook up. Let's get to let's get
Speaker 2: to the sex. I wonder if she does ever hook
Speaker 2: up with the woman say, uh, okay, let's say there's
Speaker 2: nothing more electric than finding out someone has Oh okay,
Speaker 2: so what's your contact with Aham while you're on the road.
Speaker 2: Contact is sporadic but intense, says Lindy. But a kind
Speaker 2: of pivotal thing happened right before I left where I
Speaker 2: was like, what does Roya think about me? And he
Speaker 2: was like, well, she has a crash on you? And
Speaker 2: I was like, eggs scales mere. First off, sorry, that
Speaker 2: is one oh one bullshit.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I've had a guys there that's like, you would you
Speaker 2: want to do a threesome? Because my friend thinks you're
Speaker 2: really cute? No she doesn't, No, No, she doesn't know.
Speaker 2: Your friend doesn't think I'm cute. Stop. Roya has a
Speaker 2: little bit of a crush on you, Lindy. So then
Speaker 2: so she's excited about that. She's like it was powerful.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh oh uh, and she said, how
Speaker 2: do I know that? She's not just trying to get
Speaker 2: rid of me so that you guys can be together.
Speaker 2: She's not out there thinking the vile stuff that is
Speaker 2: happening in my head. She's out there thinking, oh, Lindy's
Speaker 2: beautiful and she seems really smart and interesting. I would
Speaker 2: love to get to know Lindy, which is how the
Speaker 2: whole thing's supposed to work in the first place. I guess, well,
Speaker 2: I love.
Speaker 1: Her, that's only that's only brought on by him telling
Speaker 1: her this bullshit. Right, we don't know if any of this.
Speaker 2: I got to go to Portland and live there to
Speaker 2: find out more about what Roya thinks about you. With that,
Speaker 2: is that going to be a problem. So she's processing
Speaker 2: all her feelings. I'm skipping a lot on the road
Speaker 2: trip about Roya. She starts thinking about Roya, and she's
Speaker 2: soothed by that feeling of safety. She feels safe. Now
Speaker 2: she's like she's feeling.
Speaker 1: Because roy has a crush on her.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, so uh so, Martin asked, So the circumstance
Speaker 2: of Aham and Roya's relationship hasn't changed. If anything, there
Speaker 2: they've intensified. Right Again, the interviewer couldn't have known this
Speaker 2: unless she had just viewed all that. Right, you have
Speaker 2: to stick that in. Sorry, So the safety you feel,
Speaker 2: that's you. You created that safety.
Speaker 1: No, that's the interviewer.
Speaker 2: She says, absolutely, and that's why it was different. The
Speaker 2: trip continues, and I'm talking to Aham more and more
Speaker 2: about Roya, and I believe ahem sent me a sexy
Speaker 2: underwear pick of with her consent, and I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: you can tell her that she's that's a beautiful photo.
Speaker 2: I'm such a dork, Stephanie. She's not like other girls.
Speaker 2: I got a lot of these things. She's totally a doork,
Speaker 2: just like us. Yes, but she's like, ohrdlert nerd alert Roya.
Speaker 2: Like if Roya really sent this beautiful photo of herself
Speaker 2: and I'm sure she did, go ahead and tell her
Speaker 2: she's hot, I'm so dorky. Oh my god, oh my god,
Speaker 2: oh me, that's been yeah, okay, okay. So she's like yeah.
Speaker 2: And then I think I was feeling sexy for once
Speaker 2: in my life, and I say, I sent aham a
Speaker 2: cute picture in my underpants and I was like, I
Speaker 2: think you could show this to Roya if you want.
Speaker 2: And then she texted and then and then she texted
Speaker 2: me and was like you look so sexy, And I
Speaker 2: was like, what am I doing? This is a crazy
Speaker 2: thing to be doing, dork, And so she's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is crazy. I'm brave in certain ways. I mean,
Speaker 2: in many ways, I'm not brave. This is one of
Speaker 2: the ways in which I'm not so, Martin says sexually. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess I think I was making myself Okay. So
Speaker 2: it goes on and on about how vulnerable she is
Speaker 2: and like, oh my god, I can't believe I'm doing
Speaker 2: something so impulsive. But it just feels right to me
Speaker 2: in this moment. And let's not think everything to death.
Speaker 1: Why don't I just feel right Licky to fight for
Speaker 1: my husband in this moment, to just like not give
Speaker 1: up so easily. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So then after the sexy picture, she's like, it became clear.
Speaker 2: The next thing we need to do is hop on
Speaker 2: a call and discuss what the heck's going on. She's
Speaker 2: oh my god, Roya video called me because remember they're together, Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 2: because she needs she needs him.
Speaker 1: She's going through some stuff.
Speaker 2: Ham and Roya. But also also let me point out
Speaker 2: that Lindy had just gone through some stuff just before
Speaker 2: they had gotten married, right.
Speaker 1: But when Lod was going through some stuff, he couldn't
Speaker 1: handle it. It was like, that's too much.
Speaker 2: It's polyamory or nothing, bitch. Now he and roy are
Speaker 2: together in Portland, they video call her. She says, there
Speaker 2: was definitely incredible tension in the air. I think we're
Speaker 2: all like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the tension wasn't what you think it is, but
Speaker 1: go ahead.
Speaker 2: She was also, I didn't want to make it sound
Speaker 2: easy because there's still the part of me that's terrified.
Speaker 2: And so it's like, okay, there's two wolves, all right,
Speaker 2: we don't need to talk about the wolves. No, it
Speaker 2: so hold on And then I'm trying to use my
Speaker 2: new skills from therapy to stay in the moment with
Speaker 2: what's actually happening in front of me, which is that
Speaker 2: I'm feeling really connected with this person who's beautiful and
Speaker 2: sweet and kind and funny and smart and who loves
Speaker 2: ahem and I love Ahem. So it was kind of
Speaker 2: a complicated video call. Then Martin's like, so after a
Speaker 2: month when you came back to Seattle, was Roya there? Okay,
Speaker 2: so they lived in Seattle. He'd gone off to Portland
Speaker 2: to be with Roya. Now she's come back. It was
Speaker 2: Roya there. No. But later Aham had a show, like
Speaker 2: an art show, and I suggested, why does not Roya
Speaker 2: come up to Seattle. We'll see what happens. I went
Speaker 2: by myself to pick her up. Oh, Lindy is doing
Speaker 2: the thing. She was so pretty and she's just so
Speaker 2: sunny and so smiley. And then we went to the
Speaker 2: show and roy and I held hands and then we
Speaker 2: went to a bar and roy and I were sitting
Speaker 2: next to each other talking and then some drunk guy
Speaker 2: came by and grabbed her arm and I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna fucking kill that guy. And okay, all right, Lindy,
Speaker 2: now you're getting weirdly territorial about Roya. Yes, And the
Speaker 2: feeling was like, that's my girlfriend. Why would you think
Speaker 2: you could just touch her? And then we went to
Speaker 2: the hotel and we had sex. It was really fun.
Speaker 2: Oh oh okay, So Martin asks, the three of you, you, Roya,
Speaker 2: and a hom are just the two of you, you
Speaker 2: and Roya, the three of us as Lindy, of course
Speaker 2: you think Aham's gonna be like, yeah, you guys, go ahead,
Speaker 2: three of us. And it was really fun and hot.
Speaker 2: And I'm skipping over that because I don't really like
Speaker 2: to talk about sex. But then the cutest part of
Speaker 2: the night is ahm ahm had insomnia is never asleep,
Speaker 2: but Roya fell asleep in my arms. We slept the
Speaker 2: whole night, and I was like, why was this so comfortable,
Speaker 2: so sweet and peaceful and easy and safe? She says,
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I felt like a sign of something
Speaker 2: being great. Okay, let's skip to see if they're still together.
Speaker 2: So they announce it in twenty twenty two that this
Speaker 2: is what they're polyamorous, and she said, yeah, we are
Speaker 2: a romantic triad. Some would just call it a throuttle.
Speaker 2: I think, right, I think so. Yeah, we didn't really
Speaker 2: know how to launch. Why do you have to launch?
Speaker 2: That's my question? Because it felt intrusive and stressful and
Speaker 2: I felt resentful, blah blah blah, Like why do I
Speaker 2: have to explain it? Skipping skipping, she said, I felt
Speaker 2: freedom for myself. I have now two people who love
Speaker 2: me instead of one, and it's really just three people
Speaker 2: that live in a house instead of two, and we
Speaker 2: all help with the dishes, so you know, with those
Speaker 2: dishes that have to be done. Guys stops, Yes, exactly
Speaker 2: mine again again like okay, so she doesn't get to
Speaker 2: just decide if she wants to have a different boyfriend.
Speaker 1: Well, it has to be that guy. No, it has
Speaker 1: to be because well she can she can have sex, right,
Speaker 1: But so she so he shout he found her and
Speaker 1: Lindy has to go along with it. I'm just saying, like,
Speaker 1: it's not like if Lindy just went and met some
Speaker 1: guy and then he would have to have sex with
Speaker 1: the guy, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: I wonder who pays for their mortgage now, Martin says,
Speaker 2: So Lindy's like, yeah, we're all three together going into
Speaker 2: year five, and she's like, yeah, so feels good. But yeah,
Speaker 2: no mention of other dudes. Maybe she just doesn't want
Speaker 2: to talk about that.
Speaker 1: No. I just don't think that's a thing. I think
Speaker 1: she had to get comfortable with he's going to have
Speaker 1: two women, and that's I think how a lot of
Speaker 1: these situations are.
Speaker 2: But it can be a thing. In real polyamory, you are,
Speaker 2: it is open. I think.
Speaker 1: Well, in like polygamy, it's never it's always the guy
Speaker 1: has a few wives. It's never like the woman has
Speaker 1: a few husbands.
Speaker 2: You remember I met when I first moved here. I
Speaker 2: worked for this company, and they were in a there
Speaker 2: was there were three wives, yes, yes, three wives, and
Speaker 2: they lied and they were pretending they were like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's just so it is polyamory. We met at Berkeley.
Speaker 2: It just super wild and none of it really made sense.
Speaker 2: And then years later they're like, is that what we
Speaker 2: told you? No, we were Mormons. We've left the church.
Speaker 2: They left, all but one of them left, the guy
Speaker 2: who was creepy. Right, But yeah, okay, so I guess
Speaker 2: we started out judgmental. But now we're all looking for
Speaker 2: like a triad.
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, so we're to judge.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, they have apps for that field, all kinds
Speaker 2: of apps.
Speaker 1: So we're taking applications. Like, I don't want to go
Speaker 1: on apps. I'm just saying we're taking you can apply
Speaker 1: right with the job anyway.
Speaker 2: That's what happened. If we sound judge, we were not
Speaker 2: trying to. I think it does work for some people. Sure,
Speaker 2: I think it's a little I think hearing her tell
Speaker 2: the story doesn't do her any favors. But it's her
Speaker 2: life and her man man's and her woman's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I I I ping