Speaker 1: The Golden Age of serial murders was a span of
Speaker 1: forty years when murder ran rampant through the United States
Speaker 1: of America with the likes of prolific killers and cold
Speaker 1: case murders. Today we cover a case known as the
Speaker 1: Lady of the Dunes, which is a cold case from
Speaker 1: the Golden Age in nineteen seventy four, which gained some
Speaker 1: new life in twenty twenty two when her identity was
Speaker 1: finally uncovered. My name's Ben and.
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and.
Speaker 1: Grim, a true crime podcast. The following podcasts and material
Speaker 1: intended for a mature audience. Listener discretion is advised. We're
Speaker 1: recording in the morning this time instead of late at night.
Speaker 1: How's it going. Good morning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's no beer opening or anything.
Speaker 1: I guess no, I don't even have coffee this morning,
Speaker 1: so it's just tea.
Speaker 2: We're tea slurping.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm out of coffee officially ran out yesterday. Had
Speaker 1: a little bit of a panic attack. And I mean
Speaker 1: the tea's actually doing the job, Okay.
Speaker 2: I was like, what a terrible day.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I don't drink the coffee for the caffeine.
Speaker 1: I drink it for that warm hug feeling in the morning,
Speaker 1: and then the tea is it's sufficing. I don't think
Speaker 1: it would day after day, but it is. It is
Speaker 1: definitely sufficing. It can fill that voice.
Speaker 2: It's doing the trick for the day. Hey, well, I'm
Speaker 2: going out later, so I'll get you some more coffee.
Speaker 1: Appreciate that. Thank you. That's what marriage is about you
Speaker 1: out of coffee. I got your back.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's also for myself too, right, what what
Speaker 2: because lots of times they say like coffee wakes you
Speaker 2: up and makes you in a better mood and stuff.
Speaker 2: So I'm doing it for myself too. Oh.
Speaker 1: I thought you meant like the part of marriage was
Speaker 1: for you specifically. I was like, okay, yeah, and generally
Speaker 1: people get something out of marriage. I would think there'd
Speaker 1: be something for you in there.
Speaker 2: I would think so too. Yeah. Wow, Holy I love
Speaker 2: what you took that so differently.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm a little bit slow this morning. It's freaking
Speaker 1: daylight savings time, like two days ago or one day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when was it Saturday? Saturday? Well, technically Sunday.
Speaker 2: Sunday morning or early Sunday morning. Yeah, isn't it like two.
Speaker 1: In the morning in the morning. Yeah, I hate daylight
Speaker 1: savings time. It's the most It's the dumbest thing in
Speaker 1: the world. In my opinion. I think it's absurd.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's probably not necessary.
Speaker 1: Really, I don't think it is.
Speaker 2: They talk all like every year. I feel like there's
Speaker 2: a discussion about, you know, not having it anymore, but
Speaker 2: well there.
Speaker 1: Are places that don't have it across Canada and the
Speaker 1: States even.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I don't know. I just it is what
Speaker 2: it is. I feel like I don't even worry about
Speaker 2: because I can't change it.
Speaker 1: Right, touche too shape. I just think it's absurd. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you don't have enough light at this portion of the day,
Speaker 1: so we're going to give you light at that portion
Speaker 1: of the day. But in order to do so, we're
Speaker 1: going to take it away from this part of the
Speaker 1: day because we can't just extend it.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and especially if you have kids and stuff like,
Speaker 2: it messes it up.
Speaker 1: It does. It's like, just schedules and let people have
Speaker 1: their natural cycle. Come on.
Speaker 2: Now. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's my view of it.
Speaker 2: I think that's a pretty common view.
Speaker 1: I think so too. Anyways, we got to say thank
Speaker 1: some patrons who support the show. So this week we
Speaker 1: had a few awesome people sign up and I'm probably
Speaker 1: going to butcher their names, but I am going to
Speaker 1: try my best. So here we go. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much to Laurie de Laurentis, Jessica Smith, Paul Montoya, and
Speaker 1: Daniel Supernat. So thank you very much to all of
Speaker 1: you for signing up on Patreon, supporting the show and
Speaker 1: being here and listening and just being freaking on Wicked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding, thank you so freaking much, freaking much
Speaker 2: freaking and us speaking of Patreon, this case comes from
Speaker 2: Patreon today. It does. Yeah, they get a lot to say,
Speaker 2: Actually they do in cases that we end up choosing.
Speaker 1: So we did ah give us some recommendations on the
Speaker 1: last Patreon case, and so they put out a bunch
Speaker 1: of recommendations and we took like, I think it was
Speaker 1: the top four that kind of peaked our interest. And
Speaker 1: then we did a poll voting on Patreon and the
Speaker 1: top one was the Patreon episode exclusive, the exclusive one
Speaker 1: for the month that we did. But this one was
Speaker 1: number two in that voting poll and it kind of
Speaker 1: piqued my interest. So that's what we're doing today.
Speaker 2: We're doing it too.
Speaker 1: I didn't even tell the patrons that this this was
Speaker 1: going to be the case until, like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I think it was like last night when.
Speaker 2: We were going to bed something. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they only knew that this was going to
Speaker 1: be their recommendation on this case just slightly before you guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they seemed so stoked.
Speaker 1: Were stoked. I'm stoked on it too.
Speaker 2: Well. It sounds very interesting. I mean your intro. I
Speaker 2: was just like, oh, wow.
Speaker 1: Well it is. It's a cold case from back in
Speaker 1: the seventies that there was literally no trail. And I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be honest with you right now, this case there's
Speaker 1: not a whole lot of information because the trail was
Speaker 1: just so cold for so long. Okay, So yeah, that's
Speaker 1: all it is. So yeah, we're going to dive into
Speaker 1: this cold case and how it actually got it. Its
Speaker 1: a breath of life metaphorically speaking in twenty twenty two. Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: So on July twenty sixth, nineteen seventy four, a little
Speaker 1: twelve year old girl was out on a mission. She's
Speaker 1: running after her barking dog in Race Point Dunes, in Provincetown, Massachusetts.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure many people have been there before, you know,
Speaker 1: chasing after your dog gets off the leash, or the
Speaker 1: leash gets yanked out of your hand.
Speaker 2: Right yeah, And the dog's just like what yeah.
Speaker 1: No matter how much you call its name, it, she
Speaker 1: just goes and goes and goes, probably chasing a squirrel
Speaker 1: or something. But that's exactly a situation for this little girl.
Speaker 1: She's going after her dog who is not listening to
Speaker 1: her whatsoever and just taken off. So the only thing
Speaker 1: is something was different. Soon this little girl would find
Speaker 1: her dog would stop and allow her to catch up.
Speaker 1: The dog was now distracted intensely sniffing, and when the
Speaker 1: girl approached. In that moment, things took a very dark
Speaker 1: turn as this little twelve year old girl realized she
Speaker 1: was now looking at the remains of a human body
Speaker 1: where her dog now stood.
Speaker 2: Oh oh no, hey A, I mean, finding a body
Speaker 2: is horrible, but a little twelve year old girl finding
Speaker 2: a body, I know, I don't love that.
Speaker 1: We Actually, we just had a case a couple of
Speaker 1: cases ago, the case with Bussy McLean who murdered his mother,
Speaker 1: and there were parts strewn about the trash and the
Speaker 1: dog found those parts as well. Yeah, so we had
Speaker 1: a case just like this not long ago. And you
Speaker 1: said that was like a fear of yours.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean just running across a body. But
Speaker 2: I just feel like, I mean, it would be traumatic
Speaker 2: no matter what age you are, but a twelve year old,
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess the trauma would last with you
Speaker 2: a little bit longer.
Speaker 1: Well, I think adults are generally speaking more adapt to
Speaker 1: handle trauma. Not that they are necessarily able to deal
Speaker 1: with the better, but we're more adapt to I think
Speaker 1: about it. You know, we're not It couldn't impact us
Speaker 1: as hard. Maybe I don't know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean also, a twelve year old may not
Speaker 2: even I mean, they would know what death is, but
Speaker 2: they may not, you know, know what it is to
Speaker 2: the extent that like an adult would right.
Speaker 1: Or understand why someone could do that, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: not really fully understand murder. Death. I could probably understand
Speaker 1: a twelve year old understanding that murder might be a
Speaker 1: bit of a different concept.
Speaker 2: And it's too young of an age to know that
Speaker 2: the world shit, yeah right, it's really the ultimate thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, authorities though regardless of this, little girl were
Speaker 1: notified immediately and they quickly began their investigation at the scene. Now,
Speaker 1: the body that was found was that of a woman
Speaker 1: who is estimated to be between the ages of twenty
Speaker 1: five and forty years old. There were some reports at
Speaker 1: saying that she could be even as young as twenty
Speaker 1: and upwards of even forty five years old, but generally speaking,
Speaker 1: the consensus was between twenty five and forty.
Speaker 2: That's quite arranged.
Speaker 1: It is quite a range. And you'll understand why here
Speaker 1: in a moment, because her body was giving off a
Speaker 1: very horrible odor as investigators did their work, because she
Speaker 1: was very badly decomposed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's kind of what I figured.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there was a very apparently significant insect activity
Speaker 1: on her body. Nice, which this actually helps give a
Speaker 1: timeline to her death as they can actually estimate based
Speaker 1: off the type of insects present at the scene and
Speaker 1: on the remains, and not only that, but how far
Speaker 1: along their life cycles is. So they're like, Okay, if
Speaker 1: this insect is here and it's in this stage of life,
Speaker 1: then we can estimate that it's the body's been here
Speaker 1: for Okay, this amount of time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew that they would use the insects to
Speaker 2: their advantage, but you forget about that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: I think I learned that one in like CSI way
Speaker 1: back in the day. Yeah, yeah, back when we were
Speaker 1: probably like, I don't know, twenty one years old watching
Speaker 1: CSI on our weekends. Good times. In this case, though,
Speaker 1: it was estimated that she would have been deceased for
Speaker 1: approximately two weeks. Okay, yeah, so she's been in this
Speaker 1: spot decomposing for the last two weeks. The woman had
Speaker 1: long red hair that was pulled back into a ponytail.
Speaker 1: Under her head was a pair of Wrangler jeans and
Speaker 1: a blue bandana. She had pink nail polish on her
Speaker 1: toes and was laying on a blanket. Though she was
Speaker 1: nearly decapitated from a reported extremely brutal strangling, her cause
Speaker 1: of death was instead from blunt force trauma to the
Speaker 1: side of her head. Reported that the weapons was something
Speaker 1: that was suspected to be such as a shovel or
Speaker 1: a entrenching tool, which is kind of like a really
Speaker 1: big like pickaxe almost. It's like a pick axe with
Speaker 1: like a shovel end, so it's like you can swing
Speaker 1: in like dig trenches in the war or whatever sort
Speaker 1: of thing. Okay, so it's something along those lines could
Speaker 1: have been used to deliver that final blow to the
Speaker 1: side of her head. Now, strangely enough, though, there were
Speaker 1: absolutely no signs of struggle present, which includes no defensive wounds,
Speaker 1: but there was evidence that sexual assault took place. Okay,
Speaker 1: So with those two things in mind, no defensive wounds
Speaker 1: and sexual assault took place. So does that mean it
Speaker 1: was post It was most likely that this occurred post mortem.
Speaker 2: You know, Oh, it's so terrible because it just like
Speaker 2: it almost just sounds like that you're describing this beautiful
Speaker 2: woman and she's just like laying peacefully on this blanket,
Speaker 2: and then you go deeper and like her head's almost decapitated.
Speaker 2: Like it's just, oh yeah, it's a good way to
Speaker 2: start the day listening to this.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that whole like she's laying peacefully on
Speaker 1: the blanket sort of thing that actually plays a rather
Speaker 1: big role in this. And like, I mean, honestly, everything
Speaker 1: we've talked about so far is actually very big if
Speaker 1: you really break it down, like, for example, the post
Speaker 1: mortem thing and the fact that it was like no
Speaker 1: defensive wounds, it's a very big piece of evidence, especially
Speaker 1: when coupled with the idea that the attacker may have
Speaker 1: been laying right next to her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's almost it's of someone that she probably knew,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe had a relationship with.
Speaker 1: Exactly how There was reportedly some sort of impression in
Speaker 1: the ground, which also depending on how you look at it,
Speaker 1: but most likely how they were looking at it. The
Speaker 1: angle of the blow on her head suggested that the
Speaker 1: person was laying next to hers all which began raising
Speaker 1: questions was she sleeping at the time, and more importantly,
Speaker 1: did she know her attacker attacker because she probably was
Speaker 1: sleeping next to her attacker on the ground in this
Speaker 1: position when they struck.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, Okay, that's terrible, it is, I mean, but
Speaker 2: what the heck? They say, Well, there's a reason why
Speaker 2: the main suspect is always the significant other, the partner. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's usually someone in the most immediate family. Like
Speaker 1: a child goes missing, it's you know, the parents, right,
Speaker 1: or you know, parents go missing, it's the children, or
Speaker 1: a wife it's the husband, the husband, it's the wife.
Speaker 1: It's immediate family. Yeah, and it's usually nine times out
Speaker 1: of time, I think pretty spot on an estimate. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, now,
Speaker 1: it was the most likely scenario that she did know
Speaker 1: the attacker and that she was asleep when the assault
Speaker 1: initially took place. The two have me been laying next
Speaker 1: to each other when she drifted off and the person
Speaker 1: had simply struck.
Speaker 2: Then took the opportunity.
Speaker 1: Yep. One of the biggest details about the remains that
Speaker 1: were found, however, I've yet to mention both her hands
Speaker 1: and several of her teeth had been removed and were missing.
Speaker 1: She had no hands on her body, they were cut
Speaker 1: and multiple teeth were pulled from her mouth.
Speaker 2: Oh okay.
Speaker 1: It appeared as if whoever had committed this horrific crime
Speaker 1: did not want the authorities to identify the remains that
Speaker 1: they had just found, taking away dental impressions and fingerprints alike.
Speaker 2: Okay, do you want to know something ridiculous? Is apparently
Speaker 2: I haven't woken up whatsoever, because I didn't even think yeah.
Speaker 1: I was actually kind of waiting for you to chime
Speaker 1: in and say it, but you didn't. So I just
Speaker 1: got to read my script and I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: oh that.
Speaker 2: Is the worst. I was like, oh, that's so weird.
Speaker 2: In my head, and then oh, yeah.
Speaker 1: That's why taking away her identity.
Speaker 2: Yeah that makes sense, yep.
Speaker 1: Which is exactly why this case was cold for.
Speaker 2: So long, because then no idea who the fuck she was?
Speaker 1: You bet you now. An autopsy revealed both the cause
Speaker 1: of death and the sexual assault that took place post mortem,
Speaker 1: but it also revealed her last meal, a burger and fries,
Speaker 1: which could potentially be a useful piece of information when
Speaker 1: trying to piece together her last steps before the assault. Now,
Speaker 1: other than this and two sets of footprints that were
Speaker 1: found leading away from the crime scene and a set
Speaker 1: of tire tracks, investigators didn't have a whole lot of
Speaker 1: information to go on to identify the woman or what happened.
Speaker 1: They began trying to run license plate numbers for everyone
Speaker 1: who had visited the park around the time in the
Speaker 1: woman's murder. It unfortunately didn't help them identifying her at all,
Speaker 1: and there was no record of her or who they
Speaker 1: thought she could have been arriving in the area. So
Speaker 1: they're going through these records. No one matches a missing
Speaker 1: person's report, no one matches the description of her. It's
Speaker 1: just simply she has no record of being in this area.
Speaker 2: That's so bizarre.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now brought up the possibility that her body
Speaker 1: may have been dumped here after being killed somewhere else. Now,
Speaker 1: we do know many of these things happened post mortem, right,
Speaker 1: so it is a possibility she was killed somewhere else,
Speaker 1: dumped here the post mortem things occurred in this spot
Speaker 1: and then the killer left.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that could very well be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if that is the case, it only complicates
Speaker 1: the matter further because now they may not have a
Speaker 1: crime scene even Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, gosh, I feel like solving a murder
Speaker 2: is hard enough, and then this just makes it tenfold.
Speaker 1: Oh and this person whoever committed this is doing all
Speaker 1: this on purpose to ensure that they don't get caught.
Speaker 2: They had this plan, which is just so disgusting.
Speaker 1: Now. She was buried three months later in October of
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four, after the case went cold. She was
Speaker 1: buried as a Jane Doe in Saint Peter's Cemetery near
Speaker 1: the center of town. Her grave held a small stone
Speaker 1: headstone with the words that read quote unidentified female body
Speaker 1: found Race Point Dunes, July twenty sixth, nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 2: Oh, I hate that I know.
Speaker 1: It's something that I don't think anyone should have on
Speaker 1: their their headstone, but in the very least, at least
Speaker 1: you do have a final resting place.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's nice that they do give them that.
Speaker 2: But oh yeah, I mean someone would have had to
Speaker 2: loved her and knew.
Speaker 1: Her, oh for sure. It's just who and where are they?
Speaker 1: And where did she come from? That's the only question.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I guess technically she could even be from
Speaker 2: another area of like the country. She could she could be.
Speaker 1: From another country. Yeah, we have no clue.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, despite the short time period that had passed at
Speaker 1: this point, police did not give up easily. They poured
Speaker 1: over thousands of missing persons cases and of course the
Speaker 1: already mentioned vehicles, the information on what had gone through
Speaker 1: the area in the time for death, and no matter
Speaker 1: what they did, it seemed like they just could not
Speaker 1: get any leads, no matches, know nothing. There was nothing
Speaker 1: that they could find. No other evidence was found despite
Speaker 1: consistent revisits and searching through the surrounding area where she
Speaker 1: was initially discovered. So even though that they can't find anything, like, well,
Speaker 1: what if we go back and maybe we could find
Speaker 1: something else. Consistently they're doing this and they just can't
Speaker 1: find any more information. They can't get a lead, they
Speaker 1: can't get any farther ahead.
Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like they're not giving up though, and
Speaker 2: I do not really love.
Speaker 1: That they are not giving up, and it is awesome.
Speaker 1: Though the case was cold, it didn't mean investigators even
Speaker 1: forgot about her. A few years later had passed by,
Speaker 1: and still they wanted to find who she was. They
Speaker 1: were certain that if they could find her identity, they
Speaker 1: could find who killed her. In nineteen seventy nine, they
Speaker 1: took the skull of the Jane Doe, which was not
Speaker 1: buried with her body, because in hopes that it would
Speaker 1: you know, help identifying her, okay, and they did a
Speaker 1: clay facial reconstruction of what she may look like. In
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty her remains were also unearthed and hopes to
Speaker 1: collect any missing possible evidence and obtain a DNA sample. Still,
Speaker 1: regardless of their attempts, there were no advancements in the case.
Speaker 2: I'm actually shocked that they're just I mean, I know
Speaker 2: that that happens, Like you know, they half close the
Speaker 2: case for lack of evidence, but it's still ongoing. But
Speaker 2: it just seems like they're really you know, yeah, it
Speaker 2: affected them and they want this solved. I like that.
Speaker 1: Oh, they definitely do. And I don't think they were
Speaker 1: they ever closed this case. It was just left open
Speaker 1: as a cold case. Okay when they when they close
Speaker 1: the case, I'm pretty sure it generally doesn't get reopen
Speaker 1: sort of thing. It's like, yeah, this isn't going to
Speaker 1: get solved sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean there's I could be wrong, but
Speaker 2: there's this asshole running around that they that needs to uh,
Speaker 2: you know, be in prison.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely I can agree with you on that one. Now,
Speaker 1: there were a few leads that investigators had looked into,
Speaker 1: and including in nineteen eighty seven when a Canadian woman
Speaker 1: allegedly told a friend that she saw her father strangle
Speaker 1: a woman in Massachusetts around nineteen seventy two. Police attempted
Speaker 1: to locate this woman, but unfortunately they were unsuccessful. And
Speaker 1: I just want to say, Okay, why the fuck would
Speaker 1: you not come forward if you saw someone strangle someone sooner?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, unless you there's many reasons, right, maybe
Speaker 2: you were like afraid or something, but yeah, for any reasons,
Speaker 2: but not many excuses. Yeah, I don't know good reasons,
Speaker 2: I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I can understand, because if you think that you're you
Speaker 1: yourself are a danger, I totally get it makes sense.
Speaker 1: But also this to me just sounds like she's having
Speaker 1: a passing conversation with like a friend at a nail
Speaker 1: slawan sort of situation. Oh this one time, I thought
Speaker 1: my dad strangled this check. And it's like, why is
Speaker 1: this such a casual conversation for you right now? That's
Speaker 1: the impression I get.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it should not be a casual, yeah, conversation.
Speaker 1: If it's a casual conversation, you should have loved already
Speaker 1: have gone to the police.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the police should definitely have already known, because.
Speaker 1: If you have, like we already talked about an excuse
Speaker 1: or a reason why you're not doing it, you're not
Speaker 1: having a casual conversation about Yeah. So, regardless of the
Speaker 1: police could not attempt this woman, and there is a
Speaker 1: possibility that it was even.
Speaker 2: Just a rumor, so oh okay.
Speaker 1: Another woman claimed that the reconstruction of the victim looked
Speaker 1: like her sister who had disappeared in Boston in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy four, But no luck. Okay, investigators also followed a
Speaker 1: lead involving a missing criminal, Rory gene Kessinger, and other
Speaker 1: missing women. However, all of them were ruled out. No
Speaker 1: matter who they looked into, no matter what lead they
Speaker 1: did have, they still found themselves with a mystery and
Speaker 1: a cold case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's just no smoking gun, hey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it remained a mystery for years to come,
Speaker 1: like despite her body being exhumed two more times.
Speaker 2: For sample more time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, once in two thousand and another in twenty thirteen. Now,
Speaker 1: during this time, her skull sat on the desk of
Speaker 1: Provincetown Police Chief. The police chief, it was sitting there
Speaker 1: as a reminder of the case that they have yet
Speaker 1: to solve.
Speaker 2: Good God.
Speaker 1: And in twenty ten, the skull was scanned for a
Speaker 1: computer generated facial reconstruction. This time even still, the case
Speaker 1: remained cold, just as it was since the day arrived
Speaker 1: on their desk her first time.
Speaker 2: Okay, Wow, I can't believe just how how much they're
Speaker 2: not giving up on this, Like the skull is just
Speaker 2: there as a daily reminder, yeah, that this is not solved,
Speaker 2: and like we got to find this person.
Speaker 1: Right wow. Like at first when I read that that
Speaker 1: the skull was just sitting on the police chief's desk.
Speaker 1: Like when I say it's a daily reminder, that's my words.
Speaker 1: Because at first I was like, well, that's kind of
Speaker 1: almost disrespectful sort of thing, right, Like why would you
Speaker 1: do that? But also in the same sense, I've got
Speaker 1: a bit of a morbid curiosity, and I would love
Speaker 1: to own a human skull because I would love to
Speaker 1: take care of it.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's where that conversation came from. Yes, yes, well
Speaker 2: Ben was researching this. He's like, hey, would you want
Speaker 2: to own a human soul? It's like that's so random,
Speaker 2: And also.
Speaker 1: I don't think so, well, I I would love to
Speaker 1: have it for the fact that it's, hey, it's could
Speaker 1: be a beautiful piece. It's like beauty after death sort
Speaker 1: of thing, right, And it's like I feel like, if
Speaker 1: you respect that piece of that person and you still
Speaker 1: like let them rest and you take care of them,
Speaker 1: I think it could be a beautiful thing sort of thing.
Speaker 1: And then I kind of got thinking about that in
Speaker 1: this police chief police chief sense, I'm like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: what if he's not just like, oh, it's a it's
Speaker 1: a fucking paperweight, right, what if he does have a
Speaker 1: reason for keeping it. And what better reason for a
Speaker 1: police chief to keep a skull on the desk like
Speaker 1: that would be for a simple reminder to say, we
Speaker 1: got to solve this and you got to find out
Speaker 1: who this person is, not only for us, but for
Speaker 1: her so she can rest totally.
Speaker 2: And it also, I feel like is kind of a
Speaker 2: symbol of why they do the job too. Like it
Speaker 2: it doesn't. It represents her, but it also just represents
Speaker 2: you know, it's that one case that got away, but
Speaker 2: also you know, we're here for this reason and like
Speaker 2: we're protecting people and like solving unimaginable things that happened
Speaker 2: to them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we honestly, we could talk about the skull and
Speaker 1: being on his desk for I could go on for
Speaker 1: hours about this because it is a fascinating topic to me.
Speaker 1: But my best guess it was there for that reminder.
Speaker 1: It was there, as you said, to represent, you know,
Speaker 1: what they're there for, and that's where the skull sat.
Speaker 1: And because of that they were able to use it
Speaker 1: and make a computer generated reconstruction as well. Now it
Speaker 1: would take another five years until the next lead came in.
Speaker 1: In August of twenty fifteen, there was talk of an
Speaker 1: unidentified woman that might have been an extra in the
Speaker 1: famous movie Jaws. You know the shark movie right, which
Speaker 1: was filmed in nineteen seventy four in Martha's Vineyard, not
Speaker 1: too far from where the woman's body was found, only
Speaker 1: about one hundred miles away now. Joe Hill, the son
Speaker 1: of the writer Stephen King Jaws, brought this idea to
Speaker 1: the attention of the police because he noticed a woman
Speaker 1: in the movie's beach scene who resembled the description of
Speaker 1: the lady in The Lady of the Dunes. Now. She
Speaker 1: was wearing a blue bandana and jenes very similar to
Speaker 1: the ones found with the body. Really, yes, now, it
Speaker 1: was a very interesting lead to some others dismissed it
Speaker 1: right away, but ultimately it would not lead to identifying
Speaker 1: the woman, just like any of the other leads before it.
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two, the skeletal remains of Jane Doe
Speaker 1: were sent off to AUTHOROM for analysis. Using new age
Speaker 1: advanced DNA technology. They created a DNA profile from the remains,
Speaker 1: which were then used to find distant relatives through a
Speaker 1: process called genetic genealogy, which combines DNA testing with traditional genealogy.
Speaker 1: Research the same way how the Golden State killer was identified.
Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, they were finally able to find the
Speaker 1: identity of the Lady of the Dunes.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Okay, I mean this is cool because
Speaker 2: it's like they almost knew that technology would advance, right,
Speaker 2: and they're keeping her well. They had to exhume her
Speaker 2: a couple times. When it sucks, but this is good.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's good. They held out hope, They did not
Speaker 1: give up, and like you say, they were just waiting
Speaker 1: for the moment when they had the break in the case. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and this is where it comes. So on October thirty first,
Speaker 1: on Halloween of twenty twenty two, the FBI office in
Speaker 1: Boston released a public statement that revealed that the victim
Speaker 1: was a woman by the name of Ruth Marie Terry.
Speaker 2: Ruth okay so.
Speaker 1: Ruth Terry was born on September eighth, nineteen thirty six,
Speaker 1: in Whitwell, Tennessee, to John and Eva Terry. In nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty seven, Ruth lived left Whitwell after a short lived
Speaker 1: marriage and found work as a Fisher Body automotive sorry
Speaker 1: at the Fisher Body Automotive Plant in Livnona, Michigan. The
Speaker 1: following year, she gave birth to her son, Richard. However,
Speaker 1: facing financial struggles, Ruth made the difficult decision to allow
Speaker 1: her workplace superintendent to adopt her son, and after the adoption,
Speaker 1: Ruth had moved to California. On February sixteenth, nineteen seventy four,
Speaker 1: Ruth would marry a man by the name of Guy
Speaker 1: Rockwell Maudivin, who was an antiques dealer in Reno, Nevada.
Speaker 1: Four months before her death, the couple visited Ruth's family
Speaker 1: in Whitwell. Ruth's grand niece, Brittany, later recalled that Ruth
Speaker 1: seemed different whenever she was with Guy, who seemed to
Speaker 1: display apparent possessive behavior. After visiting family, Ruth and Guy
Speaker 1: mentioned plans to travel across the US in search of
Speaker 1: antiques because he is an antic dealer, right including stops
Speaker 1: in Massachusetts. In late summer that same year, Guy returned
Speaker 1: to Tennessee alone and informed Ruth's family that she had
Speaker 1: gone missing from her California home. He stayed briefly with
Speaker 1: them and claimed not to know where she went. Ruth's brother, James,
Speaker 1: decided to travel to California in search of his sister,
Speaker 1: and here he hired a private investigator to find her.
Speaker 1: The investigator reported that all of Ruth's belongings had been
Speaker 1: sold and that she had left the state voluntarily, possibly
Speaker 1: joining a religious group. So he just spat a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of bullshit. So that shit. Yeah, that private investigator
Speaker 1: took their money, made a story up, and walked away
Speaker 1: with hyash.
Speaker 2: She didn't even do the fucking job. Correct, that's a
Speaker 2: piss off. Hey, that's the fucking douche canoe in a
Speaker 2: half holy shit. Yeah, And so she didn't even really
Speaker 2: get reported as a as a missing person then, or
Speaker 2: she was also being reported I guess in a totally
Speaker 2: different state, wasn't she. Yeah, she's intendsh okay Okay.
Speaker 1: So over the following years, Ruth was presumed or sorry
Speaker 1: her home was in California, then her family, and then
Speaker 1: where she went missing. So it's three different. So over
Speaker 1: the following years, though, Ruth was presumed dead, but Ruth's
Speaker 1: sister in law, Jan speculated that Ruth might have been
Speaker 1: in a witness protection program unable to contact her family. Now,
Speaker 1: reasoning behind that, I'm not too certain it could have
Speaker 1: been with what the PI told them being you know,
Speaker 1: joining a religious group or something like that. Yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: things going south, who knows for whatever reason, because those
Speaker 1: groups tend to have some sort of big blowout fallout,
Speaker 1: and then she might have had to leave the group
Speaker 1: and then being a protection because against maybe the leader.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I can only speculate what her speculations were.
Speaker 1: So when a person goes missing or is murdered, their
Speaker 1: family or spouse is always, of course the first suspect
Speaker 1: investigators look at, and in this case it was no different.
Speaker 1: They immediately honed in on Guy who was just.
Speaker 2: Fucking living his life, like I uh hate that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Guy had a complex history. He was born
Speaker 1: as an orphan and was adopted by Abraham Albert Zawownski
Speaker 1: Mudevin and Sylvia Lily Silverbod. He had a brother named
Speaker 1: Michael Semyon Jay Mudavin. In nineteen forty two, Guy lived
Speaker 1: in New York City and attended the American Academy of
Speaker 1: Dramatic Arts. He married Jolene May Eloup on May eleventh
Speaker 1: of nineteen forty six in Bellevue, Pennsylvania, but they divorced
Speaker 1: in July sixteenth of nineteen fifty six. In nineteen fifty eight,
Speaker 1: he remarried a woman by the name of Manzanita Eileen
Speaker 1: Mansie Ray in Cootney, Idaho. Manzanita had a daughter named
Speaker 1: Deloe's and Mearns from a previous marriage. Both Manzanita and
Speaker 1: her daughter, Delo's, went missing in Seattle on April first
Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty, with Guy becoming the main suspect. He
Speaker 1: tried to run, but was arrested by the FBI for
Speaker 1: avoiding giving testimony into their deaths. Shortly after, on July
Speaker 1: twenty ninth, nineteen sixty, Guy remarried once again, to Everly
Speaker 1: Marie Emerson in King County, Washington. He later faced larceny
Speaker 1: charges for cheating his wife's third or sorry, cheating his
Speaker 1: third wife's family out of ten thousand dollars around the
Speaker 1: time of his second wife's disappearance. He was convicted in
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one, but had his sentence suspended in nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty two on the condition he repaid the money.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, I'm still on the wife and the daughter
Speaker 2: that went missing, and you've already moved on.
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't really move on. Gosh, did not really
Speaker 1: move on, because investigators found human body parts and guy's
Speaker 1: septic tank in nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, But.
Speaker 1: They couldn't prove they were from the missing women or
Speaker 1: even tie him to the remains, so he walked free
Speaker 1: from that.
Speaker 2: Are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 1: He was also a suspect in the murder of Henry
Speaker 1: Lawrence red Baard, a bread truck driver, in the disappearance sorry,
Speaker 1: and the disappearance of Barbara Joe Kelly, a waitress in
Speaker 1: June of nineteen fifty. Barbara went missing and was found
Speaker 1: on the beach with a gunshot wound to the head.
Speaker 2: So this guy is a fucking serial killer.
Speaker 1: You could say that, Yeah, yeah, Okay, how.
Speaker 2: Many freaking people did he end up killing by the
Speaker 2: time he gets caught.
Speaker 1: I mean that's speculative because he was never technically tied
Speaker 1: to any of those So even saying calling him a
Speaker 1: serial killer is still speculation. No, I'm doing it though,
Speaker 1: totally gets you. I'm on board with you. I just
Speaker 1: playing devil's advocabe I or the facts. It is only speculation.
Speaker 1: He was never charged, he was never found guilty, he
Speaker 1: was never prosecuted. He was only a suspect in all
Speaker 1: of those. It's just not being said, I'm with you.
Speaker 1: He's a douche canoe. He fucking did it.
Speaker 2: It just pisses me off because it's almost like a
Speaker 2: luck thing like that. He's like a lucky son of
Speaker 2: a bitch that just gets away with all these things. Yeah,
Speaker 2: can I have a little bit of that luck for
Speaker 2: something else?
Speaker 1: Why what do you want to get away with? What
Speaker 1: the fuck?
Speaker 2: No? I don't want to get away with anything. I
Speaker 2: just it would be cool if something nice happened. I
Speaker 2: would like some luck in my life that didn't involve
Speaker 2: like luck from killing.
Speaker 1: Someone to che to sche I don't know. I feel
Speaker 1: like I have to sleep with one eye open.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. She just doesn't deserve that luck, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah what I'm getting? Okay, I got you, I got
Speaker 2: youa like he just this is just pissing me off.
Speaker 1: Now, yeah.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: Guy eventually moved to California around nineteen seventy six, where
Speaker 1: he went into retirement from his job when he was
Speaker 1: at the time working as an executive vice president of
Speaker 1: a silver store. He worked at a radio station in
Speaker 1: a tobacco shop a little bit there after as well.
Speaker 1: Now it was clear to authorities that with his history
Speaker 1: and what they had just uncovered now with the relationship
Speaker 1: with Ruth, that he was the man responsible for the murder.
Speaker 1: The only problem was they were about twenty years too late.
Speaker 1: Guy had passed away in his home on March fourteenth,
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, at the age of seventy eight
Speaker 1: years old, and he was deemed responsible for her murder.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, he is the murderer. He would though he's
Speaker 1: passed so he's not convicted technically, but he did it.
Speaker 1: But he is dubbed Ruth's murderer.
Speaker 2: When okay, At first, when you said that they were
Speaker 2: too late, I was just like, what do you mean,
Speaker 2: like that they weren't going to be able to convict
Speaker 2: him or something like.
Speaker 1: I was just picked, Well, they're not able to convict him.
Speaker 1: He's dead like you not.
Speaker 2: But like I thought, like he was. They weren't like
Speaker 2: he was going to just continue being like a free man.
Speaker 1: Oh I see, well he did though, as you said,
Speaker 1: he just got to just live his life. You said
Speaker 1: that about like five ten minutes ago. He's just out
Speaker 1: there living his life and that's exactly what he did, yes,
Speaker 1: which is horrible.
Speaker 2: But I was thinking that once they figured this out,
Speaker 2: that he still just got to continue living his life,
Speaker 2: which would be even more horrible. But it's all just
Speaker 2: a beg of shit. Really, it's just.
Speaker 1: A bag of He's a bag of shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it all just sucks.
Speaker 1: So that is where this story ends. They found the
Speaker 1: lady of the dune's name, they identified her as Ruth.
Speaker 1: They found who killed her, and there's no prosecution, There
Speaker 1: is no resting easy. The only thing that we can
Speaker 1: really say is is those two things. She's been identified
Speaker 1: and so is her killer. But with his history since
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four to two thousand and two, it begs
Speaker 1: the question, what else could he have done it?
Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, like how many lives did he take?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yikes, Oh you know, that's just gonna make me have
Speaker 2: a terrible day. Sorry, my bad, because that is just
Speaker 2: like it's such a piss off really that he just
Speaker 2: like I mean, we're talking about Ruth here, so like
Speaker 2: takes her life and we don't even know much about her.
Speaker 2: But for some reason, I just have like this picture
Speaker 2: of this like beautiful woman that's just like shines so brightly,
Speaker 2: and and like he just takes her life and then yeah,
Speaker 2: just gets to live on and keep doing this shit
Speaker 2: that I'm sure he kept doing well. Yeah, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Just yeah, yeah, I'm gonna bring up Ruth's Wikipedia here
Speaker 1: just so you can see what she did look like.
Speaker 2: Oh no, do I want to know?
Speaker 1: Well, you said that she sounds like she's such a
Speaker 1: beautiful person, and I mean physically she she is very beautiful.
Speaker 1: I mean I don't know what she was like as
Speaker 1: a human being, but we can at least take a
Speaker 1: look at the photo that they have up of her. Sorry,
Speaker 1: if you guys are listening to this, just give a
Speaker 1: quick Google search and you'll find her phone.
Speaker 2: Okay, Oh, I mean she's a beautiful smile.
Speaker 1: She is a very bright and very beautiful smile.
Speaker 2: Yeah. How old was she when she passed?
Speaker 1: Then I would have to do the math. She was
Speaker 1: born in thirty six and passed away in seventy four,
Speaker 1: so she was forty two?
Speaker 2: Was she?
Speaker 1: I believe? No? Thirty seven thirty seven?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, my bad. I was trying to do that math.
Speaker 1: My math. My head is horrible. Math is not my
Speaker 1: strong suit. I think we've gone over this before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're terrible at math.
Speaker 2: Well and especially too like now you just like I
Speaker 2: almost was like, hey, let me get my calculator, but
Speaker 2: I don't know. You shouldn't need your calculator for that,
Speaker 2: I guess, so I don't know. Huh, that's terrible. Wow.
Speaker 1: She was identified though, and her her gravestone is not
Speaker 1: going to read what it did before, right, which is.
Speaker 2: Good, very very good. And it's so like, I feel
Speaker 2: so much effort was put into this case, which is
Speaker 2: slightly I don't know the word, but it kind.
Speaker 1: Of puts person at ease a little bit. It's almost, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they didn't give up. They kept hope even over decades.
Speaker 1: They were patient, and that right there is what solved it.
Speaker 1: The patience of the investigators, the patients, of passing it
Speaker 1: on to new investigators and everyone being willing and doing
Speaker 1: their job.
Speaker 2: And I almost hope. I don't know. I just had
Speaker 2: this picture in my head that like, as they're putting
Speaker 2: this new tombstone on there with her identification, right, that
Speaker 2: people involved in this case are there and there and
Speaker 2: they're feeling like they did like a really good job
Speaker 2: and you know, gave like the family and stuff closure.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So one thing, and this is this is a speculation.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I couldn't find information on it. But
Speaker 1: you when you said, like you picture like everyone laying
Speaker 1: her to rest, I honestly picture the moment that they
Speaker 1: put her skull to rest with the rest of her
Speaker 1: remains too.
Speaker 2: Oh whoa ben Okay, I don't know if they did,
Speaker 2: but I would assume that they did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, And I think that would have been the
Speaker 1: moment that really put it all together.
Speaker 2: Huh. Yeah. I was just saying these like last little
Speaker 2: ends of this, like what we're picturing and stuff, This
Speaker 2: would be like kind of a really good movie.
Speaker 1: Hey, it would be. It's it's very heartbreaking and it
Speaker 1: would make a good film.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I like, her story just turned into a movie.
Speaker 2: And this freakin' asshole guy, I can't eve remember what
Speaker 2: the hell his name was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't need to know.
Speaker 2: But him, you know, and like what he's done and
Speaker 2: it's quite bizarre that he was able to get away
Speaker 2: with this stuff. But so many douche Canoes are able
Speaker 2: to get away with a lot of things, I think,
Speaker 2: which is terrifying.
Speaker 1: And such is the world out there. Unfortunately, that's it's
Speaker 1: just the world we live in. It's a scary fucking place.
Speaker 2: You would think, though, if they found freaking remains in
Speaker 2: a his septic tank that that could be pinned on him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't I don't know how it wasn't,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't.
Speaker 2: Wow. Well, I mean them, depending how much they were
Speaker 2: the bodies were left, there was probably no evidence in stuff, right.
Speaker 1: Well, they couldn't identify DNA or anything clearly because it
Speaker 1: couldn't pin the remains to the missing or link remains
Speaker 1: the missing women.
Speaker 2: So you have to wonder if like their hands and
Speaker 2: stuff were removed as well, because he might have had
Speaker 2: a that could have been like his.
Speaker 1: What calling card? Yeah, he could have pulled teeth and
Speaker 1: hands from them too.
Speaker 2: Okay, and one more thing I just want to state
Speaker 2: is it was very interesting the date that they chose
Speaker 2: to release all this information being on Halloween. I know,
Speaker 2: I almost feel like it's interesting that they didn't wait
Speaker 2: today or or something because that it almost it just
Speaker 2: seems like a very interesting day to release it in
Speaker 2: my opinion.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So anyway, good job.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think to the authorities that releasing it
Speaker 1: on Halloween makes any difference. It's just get the information
Speaker 1: out there. It's just another way.
Speaker 2: When they have it ready.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, so that is the case of well
Speaker 1: Lady of the Dunes, but also Ruth Marie Terry. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so thanks to our patrons, because you guys turned us
Speaker 1: onto this case, very interesting one, and I'm glad that
Speaker 1: I got to research it, no kidding, And I'm glad
Speaker 1: that Ruth got to finally be named and laid to
Speaker 1: rest properly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's a terrible end, but it's
Speaker 2: it's a good end as well. I mean it's it
Speaker 2: ended the best way it could. It ended the best
Speaker 2: way it could after terrible things had happened.
Speaker 1: Yes, there's other things I wish could have happened but didn't, like,
Speaker 1: like the douche Canoe actually being prosecuted would have been fantastic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but well yeah, okay, there's.
Speaker 1: Always a silver lining, and we have a silver lining.
Speaker 2: Here, a little bit of one. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Hopefully you guys enjoyed
Speaker 1: this episode, And if you want to check out more,
Speaker 1: you can go ahead in the description of this podcast
Speaker 1: where we have all our links, but you got things
Speaker 1: like Instagram, Facebook, YouTube or we're really active and Patreon
Speaker 1: where you can go get the behind the scenes access
Speaker 1: to all the good content. Maybe you can have your
Speaker 1: say and what our next episode's going to be, so
Speaker 1: you can go check it out there and if not,
Speaker 1: you're listening here, and that means the world twists two,
Speaker 1: thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't tell until next week when it will
Speaker 2: be my turn.
Speaker 1: Okay, I wasn't going to call you on it. Nicole's
Speaker 1: finally doing a case next time. She's diving deep, so.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I am reading a book, so about it,
Speaker 2: and yeah, it will be it will be ready next week.
Speaker 1: Okay, well we're holding you to it. Next week I
Speaker 1: might be doing an episode now, I'm just next week
Speaker 1: Nicole will be doing the episode.
Speaker 2: So until then, stay wicked,