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<v Speaker 1>Thomas Frye.

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<v Speaker 2>He's the guy that just spends a lot of time

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<v Speaker 2>thinking about stuff in the future and where it's going. Thomas,

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<v Speaker 2>let me ask you a question. When do you do

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<v Speaker 2>your thinking on stuff like you're mulling? When you tell

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<v Speaker 2>me about that process when you're mulling trying to figure

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<v Speaker 2>out the future.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, usually it's at night, But a lot of times

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<v Speaker 3>some of the best ideas just pop into your head

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<v Speaker 3>just at some random moment in time, so it's hard

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<v Speaker 3>to predict.

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<v Speaker 2>I actually do most of my thinking my thinking time

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<v Speaker 2>in the car. I drive in silence for that reason.

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<v Speaker 2>And I told another friend of mine this today and

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<v Speaker 2>he's like, I don't know if I've ever driven in silence.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, well, when's your thinking time? You know you're

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<v Speaker 2>really thinking?

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<v Speaker 1>You got to think.

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<v Speaker 2>So he said I don't do that, and I was like, oh, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>well then that makes me special. Thomas has a very

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<v Speaker 2>interesting concept. Are you going to write a blog post

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<v Speaker 2>on this that I can share as well because you send.

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<v Speaker 4>It to me? But yes, we'll have it posted in

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<v Speaker 4>a week.

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<v Speaker 2>Or okay, because I think it's very interesting. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>a pretty complex topic of discussion, and I want to

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<v Speaker 2>make sure that people are interested in this could go

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<v Speaker 2>back and find more information about it later. Let's talk

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<v Speaker 2>about is it Neyman engines Neuman engines.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, named after John von Neuman kind of he was

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<v Speaker 3>a contemporary of Valanteering, helped invent modern computing. He's one

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<v Speaker 3>of the sharpest guys of all times.

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<v Speaker 4>But it's it's it's a whole different concept.

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<v Speaker 3>Kind of the way cities have been reviving themselves is

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<v Speaker 3>through economic development, and these economic development operations are are

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<v Speaker 3>failing big time right now because things have changed so much.

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<v Speaker 3>So if you move a company into your area, you're

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<v Speaker 3>probably not going to get all the employees, or if

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<v Speaker 3>you get a few employees, that's all you're going to get.

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<v Speaker 3>So economic development there's still something's happening in that space.

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<v Speaker 3>But the true, the true engine of economic activity should

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<v Speaker 3>actually be in the startup space, because with AI, we're

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<v Speaker 3>going to be creating more startups than ever before in history,

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<v Speaker 3>and I think this becomes our biggest job engine ever created.

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<v Speaker 3>So the way the Noyman engine works is you start

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<v Speaker 3>with a venture studio. A venture studio is different than

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<v Speaker 3>than like an accelerator or an incubator. A venture studios

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<v Speaker 3>where you have a group of savvy entrepreneurs that actually

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<v Speaker 3>start all the businesses, and you bring this into.

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<v Speaker 4>A community that is struggling or failing.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, the communities are having problems filling office space, or

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<v Speaker 3>having problems filling shops on main street.

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<v Speaker 4>They're just struggling economically. So when you.

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<v Speaker 3>Start this steynment engine, then you have the opportunity not

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<v Speaker 3>to just create jobs, but to create prime jobs. Now,

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<v Speaker 3>a prime job is different than just creating a job. See,

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<v Speaker 3>if you create a coffee shop, what you're doing is

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<v Speaker 3>you're just recirculating the money in the community. If you

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<v Speaker 3>create a prime job, then you're bringing money from outside

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<v Speaker 3>of the community into it and that has multiple effects then,

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<v Speaker 3>and so that changes the way communities operate.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, let me let me stop there. Let's start at

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<v Speaker 1>phase one.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll call it phase one of the operation, and that

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<v Speaker 2>is the not incubator. And for people who don't know

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<v Speaker 2>what an incubator is, there are a lot of different organizations,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of venture capitalists have incubators where you can

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<v Speaker 2>as an entrepreneur, you already have an idea, you've already

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<v Speaker 2>started the plan, you've already started the ball rolling on

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<v Speaker 2>your business. You may move into an incubator to take

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<v Speaker 2>advantage of their expertise to give more business help, to

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<v Speaker 2>get support as you begin to grow this business that

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<v Speaker 2>you've already created. So the other thing that the first

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<v Speaker 2>stage of the Normans engine is actually a space where

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<v Speaker 2>ideas are pulled out of thin air. Is that the

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<v Speaker 2>best way for me to dumb this down?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but there's more more logic to that than being

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<v Speaker 3>pulled out of thin air. But you're using kind of

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<v Speaker 3>the talent in the area. So if you have a

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<v Speaker 3>community that's in the oil and gas industry, then you

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<v Speaker 3>can use that startups in that space. If you have

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<v Speaker 3>a community that's in let's say, making movies, then you work.

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<v Speaker 4>With talent in that space and so on.

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<v Speaker 3>So you kind of build on what's already there, but

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<v Speaker 3>then you can you can veer off in different directions

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<v Speaker 3>as well.

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<v Speaker 4>So the idea is.

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<v Speaker 3>To first set up and establish a space. It'll be

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<v Speaker 3>like a co working space that has come a nation

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<v Speaker 3>coworking space with actually a theater for having shows, having classes,

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<v Speaker 3>helping people, doing meetups there, coaching people. So that that

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<v Speaker 3>was the kind of the heart of the whole Norman engine.

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<v Speaker 3>Is this startup space.

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<v Speaker 2>And.

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<v Speaker 3>Then you get people coming in there, and so the

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<v Speaker 3>venture studio will then start creating these prime businesses. In

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<v Speaker 3>a prime business would be like if you wanted to

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<v Speaker 3>start a distillery, distillery selling all over the country. If

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<v Speaker 3>you're starting, there's something that has a food industry, frozen

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<v Speaker 3>food or something like that, that's money coming from all

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<v Speaker 3>over the country.

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<v Speaker 4>Health camps.

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<v Speaker 3>There's lots of different kinds of health camps that you

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<v Speaker 3>can establish and that brings in money from all over

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<v Speaker 3>as well. And so when you start going down the list,

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<v Speaker 3>and I have quite a few different possibilities, but these

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<v Speaker 3>these can actually there's probably hundreds and hundreds of different

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<v Speaker 3>startup possibilities for a community. So then you have you

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<v Speaker 3>have the people that are starting things you have there.

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<v Speaker 4>There's something that I call a how to school.

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<v Speaker 3>How to school is something that's purposely local. It's just

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<v Speaker 3>telling you how to do things like how to start

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<v Speaker 3>how to start vibe coding, or how to do AI

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<v Speaker 3>marketing for your business and that sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>So how do you use the AI tools that you

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<v Speaker 2>are Because Thomas, I don't you and I haven't spoken

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<v Speaker 2>about this. I have a friend that has worked in

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<v Speaker 2>the internet marketing field for a very long time. Since

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<v Speaker 2>the internet marketing field just started, He's started and launched

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<v Speaker 2>multiple companies, right, so as employed people, he's had staffs.

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<v Speaker 1>He said, Well, he.

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<v Speaker 2>Just launched a new company that is marketing to a

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<v Speaker 2>very specific kind of business and he's focused on that

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<v Speaker 2>like a laser.

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<v Speaker 1>He has not had to hire anyone.

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<v Speaker 2>To scale his business because he's using AI for everything,

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<v Speaker 2>which for him is outstanding, right, But I'm worried about

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<v Speaker 2>AI sort of leaving us with new customers to buy

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<v Speaker 2>the products kind of thing, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, if AI is so efficient and AI is

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<v Speaker 2>capable of helping people build new businesses, which it is,

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<v Speaker 2>what does the landscape look like when we don't have.

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<v Speaker 1>To hire people anymore.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's going to be a lot of solo businesses,

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<v Speaker 3>but those people will still be buying products for themselves

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<v Speaker 3>and their family. So if we have ten thousand solo

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<v Speaker 3>businesses in a community, that's still a thriving me right.

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<v Speaker 3>So the kind of the landscape is going to change

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<v Speaker 3>dramatically as to how these businesses are function and operate.

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<v Speaker 3>There will still be a lot of people who choose

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<v Speaker 3>to hire people to do different things like even though

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<v Speaker 3>you can run a solo business, you probably still want

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<v Speaker 3>somebody to mow your lawn or to do your dry

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<v Speaker 3>cleaning things like that. So so anyway, this is going

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<v Speaker 3>to employ a lot of people. And I think with

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<v Speaker 3>all the sort of businesses that we're going to be

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<v Speaker 3>creating out of thin air here, that this is actually

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<v Speaker 3>going to give us with more employment than we've ever

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<v Speaker 3>had ever in all history.

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<v Speaker 2>I look at this and I think, to myself, it

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<v Speaker 2>sounds like a great idea, and I wonder how it

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<v Speaker 2>can be done on a more micro level and specifically

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<v Speaker 2>thinking about you know, you have a list of cities

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<v Speaker 2>that that you have is like ripe for this kind

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<v Speaker 2>of development. And I'm going to use date and No

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<v Speaker 2>High because I was literally just in date O High

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<v Speaker 2>over the weekend. They've got or right, Patterson Air Force Base.

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<v Speaker 2>They've got an aerospace industry there. So you we're saying, look,

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<v Speaker 2>you lean into that, well, how can this be applied

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<v Speaker 2>to a suffering, a socioeconomically devastated community right where you

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<v Speaker 2>don't necessarily have a super highly educated workforce. You're not

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<v Speaker 2>necessarily going to have a lot of college grads. Could

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<v Speaker 2>this be used to help create an economy within one

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<v Speaker 2>of those lower socioeconomic neighborhoods in the same way. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>because what you're talking about is educated people using AI

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<v Speaker 2>to do to do things that will attach to other

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<v Speaker 2>highly educated industries. Well, what about using this in a

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<v Speaker 2>community that is, you know, the average home or the

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<v Speaker 2>average person doesn't own their own home and they're living

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<v Speaker 2>on the margins. Is this something that could be used

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<v Speaker 2>on that scale? Do you think to reinvigorate even individual neighborhoods,

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<v Speaker 2>forget cities, just smaller things than that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, when when you have a venture studio, you have

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<v Speaker 3>savvy entrepreneurs that are going to start creating things, and

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<v Speaker 3>they're going to be creating businesses that they will coach

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<v Speaker 3>along until a point where they can have another set

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<v Speaker 3>of entrepreneurs take them over.

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<v Speaker 4>So the business gets off the.

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<v Speaker 3>Ground and operating and they have a handoff to a

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<v Speaker 3>local group of entrepreneurs that can rend it from there.

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<v Speaker 3>So this is kind of a training operation at the

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<v Speaker 3>same time, So you're training training the next generation of

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<v Speaker 3>business operators. So I think this creates a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>excitement in the community. Lots of people then change their

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<v Speaker 3>their their path, change their thinking and say, oh, I

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<v Speaker 3>want to be part of that. And so going to

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<v Speaker 3>going to a few sessions at the at the how

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<v Speaker 3>to school and you're learning a few things, you don't

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<v Speaker 3>quite learn enough. So then you sign up for the

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<v Speaker 3>local meetup group and then you start hanging out with

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<v Speaker 3>other people, other like minded people.

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<v Speaker 4>And that's the key.

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<v Speaker 3>When you get that mindset in a community that you

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<v Speaker 3>can take it from here, you can do it on

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<v Speaker 3>your own.

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<v Speaker 4>That changes a lot of things.

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<v Speaker 3>That changes the perspective of virtually everybody in the community.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's the difference between you know, going to

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<v Speaker 2>Haiti and building a school and going to Haiti and

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<v Speaker 2>teaching people how to do construction, right. I mean, I'd

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<v Speaker 2>an interview some many years ago now with a woman,

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<v Speaker 2>a Haitian woman in Haiti who was begging mission trips

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<v Speaker 2>to stop coming to Haiti and building things or doing things.

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<v Speaker 2>They're like, bring people down and teach people how to

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<v Speaker 2>do this stuff, because what you've done is create a

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<v Speaker 2>whole group of people waiting for another set of missionaries

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<v Speaker 2>to show up and build them another thing. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is kind of what you're talking about, Like, teach people

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<v Speaker 2>along the way. This is interesting, Thomas, because my former

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<v Speaker 2>father in law actually wasn't banking for a very long

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<v Speaker 2>time and one of his pet projects that he was

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<v Speaker 2>never able to quite get off the ground because of money.

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<v Speaker 2>And I want to ask you about that next is

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<v Speaker 2>he wanted to go in and create exactly what you're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>Invite people from.

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<v Speaker 2>A community to come in and say, what's your idea

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<v Speaker 2>for a business? Who would it serve, how would it

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<v Speaker 2>work in your mind, you know, and let's see if

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<v Speaker 2>we can flesh this out, and then do.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly what you're talking about.

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<v Speaker 2>Handhold people through the process, teach them how to do accounting,

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<v Speaker 2>teach them how to you know, advertise their but like,

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<v Speaker 2>teach them what they need to know.

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<v Speaker 1>And he got close a few.

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<v Speaker 2>Times, but it always came down to you're asking for

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<v Speaker 2>a big investment for what, maybe initially for many years

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<v Speaker 2>a low return situation. So who funds this, how do

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<v Speaker 2>you get the money to do this? And what might

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<v Speaker 2>it cost?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the yeah, the kind of the low end.

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<v Speaker 3>We're thinking roughly it's around ten million dollars over five years, right,

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<v Speaker 3>So a lot of cities can afford that. They're spending

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of that money on economic development. Right now,

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<v Speaker 3>they can use municipal bonds, so this gets paid back

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<v Speaker 3>by all the businesses that get started. This is an

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<v Speaker 3>investment in their own community. I'm not going to say

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<v Speaker 3>that you can do it on a bootstrap it or

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<v Speaker 3>do it on a shoe string. I think you need

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<v Speaker 3>to make a serious commitment in your community and then

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<v Speaker 3>just go for it.

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<v Speaker 2>I agree, and I think that you need to pay

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<v Speaker 2>people to be full time employees that have the knowledge

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<v Speaker 2>and skill set to do the things that need.

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<v Speaker 1>To be done.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm actually thinking, have you ever heard of

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<v Speaker 2>the organization's SCORE.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the Society of I can't remember.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like retired corporate executives, and it's a volunteer organization.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you start a business, you can go to

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<v Speaker 2>SCORE and they will give you good business advice.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds like something if. I feel like.

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<v Speaker 2>All of the pieces for this already exists, we just

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<v Speaker 2>need to put them all together in one place.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, except the pieces are changing with AI. I mean

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<v Speaker 3>this idea of being able to do vibe coding as

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<v Speaker 3>an example, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't even know what that is, Thomas, where is that talk.

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<v Speaker 3>To talk to your computer and it will actually build

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<v Speaker 3>your website, or it'll do the software coding for you.

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<v Speaker 3>That's something that's new and different. It's something that has

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<v Speaker 3>come out within the last six months, so not everybody

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<v Speaker 3>knows about it.

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<v Speaker 4>So that's one of the pieces that's changing.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I agree, and I do think that.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that in the next before AI becomes super

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<v Speaker 2>intelligent decides we're no longer worth it and wipes us

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<v Speaker 2>off the face of the earth in one night by

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<v Speaker 2>cutting all of our gas lines, I'm sure that won't

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<v Speaker 2>happen for a while, so let's just enjoy the run

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<v Speaker 2>while we can. I do think that our economy is

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<v Speaker 2>going to be divided into people who learn to use

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<v Speaker 2>A and people who don't. I really think the divide

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<v Speaker 2>is going to be significant. And I think that people

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<v Speaker 2>who learn to use AI effectively and learn to use

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<v Speaker 2>the tools that are available to them via AI, are

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<v Speaker 2>going to excel in the economy no matter what field

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<v Speaker 2>they're in. I think they're going to be the ones

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<v Speaker 2>that excel. And I think anything that we can do

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<v Speaker 2>to sort of inspire the next generation to really take

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<v Speaker 2>these tools seriously. But man, there's so many of them

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<v Speaker 2>coming out every day. It's hard to keep up, So

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<v Speaker 2>this would be this would be a way to do

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<v Speaker 2>those lots.

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<v Speaker 3>A lot of the AI agents right now can work

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<v Speaker 3>as a personal coach for you.

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<v Speaker 4>Let's say you want to write a book.

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<v Speaker 3>You can have this personal coach that's sitting on your

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<v Speaker 3>shoulder telling you, coaching you on how to how to

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<v Speaker 3>put together the characters, how to create the story arc,

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<v Speaker 3>how to create a good ending, and then put all

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<v Speaker 3>the pieces together, and by the time you're all done,

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<v Speaker 3>then you have something that you've accomplished, an accomplishment form

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<v Speaker 3>of education. And this is new and different because most

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<v Speaker 3>of the stuff that's being taught in schools today, you

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<v Speaker 3>accomplish virtually nothing that you're proud.

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<v Speaker 4>Of that you want to show your friends. Right right, If,

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<v Speaker 4>as an example, you want.

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<v Speaker 3>To become a gamer, a game designer, and you want

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<v Speaker 3>to design video games, you could actually have a coach

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<v Speaker 3>that actually coaches you through that whole process, teaching you

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<v Speaker 3>different ways of putting this techniques together and kind of

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<v Speaker 3>creating the storyline for.

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<v Speaker 4>That game that you want to play.

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<v Speaker 3>And by the time you're done, and you have something

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<v Speaker 3>that you want to that you're proud of, that you

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<v Speaker 3>want to show your friends, this is another accomplishment form

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<v Speaker 3>of education. I find that to be quite fascinating.

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<v Speaker 1>I agree. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm afraid and maybe this is just an unnecessary thing

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<v Speaker 2>to be worried about. I'm afraid that they're What you're

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<v Speaker 2>saying for cities makes a lot of sense. It would

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<v Speaker 2>work for Denver. I mean, if you if you really

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<v Speaker 2>concentrated your efforts on creating new industry in Denver rather

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<v Speaker 2>than trying to drag other industries here to your point

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<v Speaker 2>where you may or may not get all their employees.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's a better way to go.

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<v Speaker 2>And I actually think Governor Jared polis it would agree

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<v Speaker 2>with everything you just said. He's very attuned to bringing

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<v Speaker 2>in tech and you know, and trying to nurture startups.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think that for Denver it would be a

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<v Speaker 2>really interesting proposition. But again, you know, I'm I'm looking

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<v Speaker 2>to try and figure out how to help people who

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<v Speaker 2>are not well versed in computers, who are not well

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<v Speaker 2>versed in and for AI may seem so overwhelming for them.

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<v Speaker 2>How do we make that more accessible? Maybe we need

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<v Speaker 2>an AI for that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, just uh, there's there's a lot of people are

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<v Speaker 3>living in isolation, and I think that's that's kind of

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<v Speaker 3>the wrong way to do it. If you can find

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<v Speaker 3>a group of friends that are actually doing something similar

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<v Speaker 3>and you can.

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<v Speaker 4>Hang out with them, and you go.

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<v Speaker 3>To this a certain place every day and you go

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<v Speaker 3>there and you have coffee, and you strike up discussions

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<v Speaker 3>with what if you accomplished day, what if I accomplished today?

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<v Speaker 3>And suddenly you start learning about things you never knew

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<v Speaker 3>about before, and and so then you can have friends

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<v Speaker 3>that kind of coach you through it as well.

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<v Speaker 4>This is.

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<v Speaker 3>We're quickly losing this human camaraderie and I think it's

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<v Speaker 3>really important.

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<v Speaker 1>Excuse me, sorry about that.

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<v Speaker 2>The next time you're on, I want to talk about

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<v Speaker 2>the new wave memorials and cemeteries, but we're at a

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<v Speaker 2>time this time because talking about human connection. I have

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<v Speaker 2>an article on the blog today interactive cemeteries. Well, you'll

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<v Speaker 2>be able to go and have a conversation with your

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<v Speaker 2>loved one. I want to know this real quick, and

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<v Speaker 2>we'll we'll we'll dive into this deep next time. But

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<v Speaker 2>can I plug in things that my dad would say,

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<v Speaker 2>so my dad the hologram or whatever would say them

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<v Speaker 2>back to me, because that would be really cool.

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<v Speaker 4>We're getting very close to that. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I went over to Copernicus University last year in in Warsaw, Poland,

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<v Speaker 3>and they had they had robots of Copernicus there that

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<v Speaker 3>would would talk to you and answer any of your

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<v Speaker 3>questions that you had. So doing that for average people

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<v Speaker 3>on the street, I think we're real close to that,

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<v Speaker 3>all right.

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<v Speaker 2>He's our futurist. He's Thomas Frye. Find him the Futurist

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<v Speaker 2>speaker dot com. I put a link to that on

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<v Speaker 2>the blog as well. Thomas fascinating conversation as always, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's given me a lot more ideas that I can

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<v Speaker 2>think about, never do anything about.

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<v Speaker 1>So thanks for that, all.

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<v Speaker 4>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>I have a good one, that of course is Thomas Rye.