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Speaker 1: This is Andrew Dibshago and you're listening to Unknown Origins Radio.

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Speaker 2: We live in a world filled with the unknown.

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Speaker 3: You can't handle the truth. I'm glad as hell.

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Speaker 4: I'm we will not go quietly into the night.

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Speaker 5: We will not vanish.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Unbound Origins.

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Speaker 4: Radio, and good evening everybody. Welcome to another edition of

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Unknown Origins Radio here on the Dark Matter Radio Network.

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I'm your host, Mark Johnson, and joining me as our

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co host, mister Bruce Pearson. How are you doing tonight, Bruce?

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Speaker 6: Excellent? Mark, how are you?

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Speaker 1: Ah?

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Speaker 4: You sound so good.

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Speaker 6: Well, let's don't push your luck. Let's hope it remains

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that way.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I know, we know how how Skype and our

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internet connections love to tease us at times. But well,

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we're looking forward. We've got a great show tonight. We

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have a guest that I've literally been you know, hounding

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and stalking for the last several months trying to get

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on the show, and I think he finally agreed just

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to shut me up. So we'll be introducing him in

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just a few minutes. In the meantime, Bruce, how have

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you been. How's your week been?

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Speaker 6: It's been a little hectic been in the studio shooting

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on other network shows, and as you will know, it's

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pushing it a little close to get back and back

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home here at the studio in time, but we cut

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it right down the wire, probably given Keith a little

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bit of gray here. But it's been busy, so that's good.

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Getting ready to go out to the National Association of

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Broadcasters convention in Las Vegas in a couple of weeks.

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And by the way, we've got a pretty interesting event

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coming up just before we heat out to Las Vegas,

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and that's the New Jersey UFO conference is coming up

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again here in the beginning of April, so we should

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probably give that a quick chat. What have you got

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on your agenda that you want to talk about before

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we get to our tonight's guest on board.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad you brought up the New Jersey UFO Council.

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I'm once again I won't be able to make it.

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I will be in Disney World, yes, I know, life

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is rough. Yeah, the family vacation, so we'll be in

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Disney World that week. Yeah, So unfortunately I'm going to

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miss another one. Poor Dave Stennett, and I keep promising

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him I'm going to come and then I keep missing him,

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but hopefully I can catch the next one in the fall,

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because you know, it's so close and it's a great

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time to go there. If anybody in the area, if

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you've never been to one of these events, there are

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a great events. A lot of good speakers come in

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and talk. Dave puts on a class act show.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that's the eleventh. If anybody's in the mid Atlantic region,

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is well worth a trip. It's a one day event,

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April eleventh. It's a full day of activities. You get

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to meet and greet the people up close and personal

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that there are speakers. Of course, Travis Walton's going to

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be there from Fire in the Sky. Dave Rowntree, who

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is a good friend of our show, and we're working

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together on, you know, expanding the concept of data logging

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as a way to push this the Investigation of the

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Unknown forward. Katherine Dolan All right, excuse me, Karen Dolan

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is going to be there. Shannon Taggart. Go to the

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NJUFOC dot com or get a hold of us here

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at Unknown Origins Radio will help you get in touch

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with the right people and get tickets. But I can

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assure you that for the money, you can't beat this

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one day event. So I say that because we'll be

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down there taping it. We might be streaming this time,

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but in any event, get down there and meet the

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people and now you go out to dinner with the

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speakers and so on. So it's a great day. I

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really recommend it to anybody. It's interested.

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Speaker 4: Fantastic And then of course coming up in June and

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I have to keep plugging this one, we have Phenomenology

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one O seven. This is the seventh year the event

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has been featured, and you know, every year it's been

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in Gettysburg. This year they're just going to be outside

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of Gettysburg in a new venue in York, Pennsylvania, and

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that is going to be June eighteenth through the twenty first.

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And once again, if you've never been to Phenomenology, it

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is one of the largest paranormal conferences on the East Coast,

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held every year by Dana wingerd from the Northeastern Paranormal Investigations,

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and they really get a great lineup of people. I mean,

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this year we have they're focusing on extreme haunting cases,

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so you have Bill Bean will be there, John Zapfis,

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Andrea Parone, Chip Coffee, our good friend Eric Altman, Brian

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Kanno from Scared Bob, Christopher will be there, and so

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many more people Nicoletti, Dustin Perry from Ghost Hunters, and

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even Christopher Quarantino from the also known as Christopher Lutz

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from the Amityville Whore, one of the original Amityville Children.

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It's really a great event. They have many speakers. The

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big vendor room is always a blast. You get to

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go in and meet everybody, all the paranormal people, and

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they have investigations and things to do for the kids,

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and they have the parties in the bar and the

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nights in the weekend, so it's a really great time.

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So for tickets, you can go to Phenom Events. That's

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Phenom with pH phenom events dot com and you can

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give more information hotel lodging information and tickets. So we

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would hope to see you there. And I think it's

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time for us to get right into the meat of

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the show tonight.

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Speaker 6: What do you think, Well, yes, we have a very

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unique guest tonight. We appreciate the fact that he's agreed

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to come on with us. I found out about our

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guest listening to his original radio day in interviews with

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Art Bell, with Art of course having him on a

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number of years ago when the story broke, and Art

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I had him on several times to move the story forward.

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So we really appreciate him taking the time and being

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willing to come back on the air with us. So

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I'll let you do the former in introduction, but it

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should be a very interesting show for our listeners tonight.

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Speaker 4: Well, we'll get right into it. We'll introduce doctor Jonathan

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Reid as our guest tonight. Doctor Reid has had a

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very fascinating story to tell as he's as Bruce mentioned,

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he's told an on Art show a number of times,

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and I'm very pleased that he has come on the

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show to talk with us. And and we'll go a

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little bit deeper tonight too, deeper into what's been happening

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since the events as well. So doctor Reed, please welcome

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to the program. How are you tonight?

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Speaker 1: Very good, Mark, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 4: Well, thank you for coming on the show. And I

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just also want to mention that you are also the

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author of your book about your encounters, Link and Extraterrestrial Odyssey,

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The True Story of Alien Contact and you know, you

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wrote this book quite a few years ago, back in

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two thousand, I believe.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it was published in two thousand, and the actual

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event happened in October fifteenth of nineteen ninety six in

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Washington State.

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Speaker 4: Now, we had talked before the show about what we

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wanted to talk about, you know, for the show tonight.

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I know everyone who knows your case is fascinated by it,

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and you know, I would like to go into what

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you experience those days. And then, of course, being we

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have two hours here to go in to what's been

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happening since you wrote the book, the and the other

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experiences that you've had. So could you just start off

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for our audience, tell our listeners a little bit about

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yourself and what happened that led up to these events.

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Speaker 1: Sure, this thought, like I said, it all happened back

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in nineteen ninety six when I was a clinical psychologist

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developmental psychiatrics child development for the University Washington Medical Center.

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And what happened was I had a Golden Retriever, a

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seven year old great great dog that used to go

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with me everywhere, and I used to take her for

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walks by the water and into the forest, and one

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of these. One of the days, nice beautiful October afternoon,

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I decided to play hooky and take my dog basically

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sixty miles east of Seattle, which is near the snow

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call Me Pass Mountain Range Mountain area, and that's of

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logging roads and good places to walk, and we'd done

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this many times, so what had happened is basically I

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parked my car off of one of these logging roads

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that I had done many times before, and we just

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started walking and down the trails and through the woods.

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And it's a beautiful, pristine national forest, you know, not

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like in the city. This is definitely the mountains. And

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we walked and we saw squirrels and raccoons and all

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kinds of stuff. And of course you can let your

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dog run in this kind of area where you don't

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have to have them on a leash, and they can

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do all kinds of fun dog stuff. And my dog

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was pretty well obedient. She would come when I called her,

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and then she'd take off running through the woods, and

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nothing unusual. But after we'd been walking for about an hour,

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she took off out of sight and I heard her barking,

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you know, which was again nothing unusual, but all of

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a sudden, her barking tone changed and it sounded a

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little bit more aggressive than normal. And you know, sometimes

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dogs will find, like I say, a squirrel or something

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and go scampering after it. Well, this continued, This barking continued,

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and it started to sound more aggressive and at times

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even like she was being pursued. And so I called

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her several times, yelled out loud her name, Susie, you know,

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and normally she would come back, but this time she didn't,

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and the barking continued, and it was going farther away.

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So I quickly took off my backpack. I had a

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day pack with me and held it in my hand

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and grabbed a branch in the other in case I

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had to untangle her from some kind of critter. This

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mountain area has, like I say, raccoons, and we'd seen

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a deer earlier in the day, and even bear are

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in this area, so I wasn't sure what she was

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involved with, but I considered that I better have something to,

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you know, kind of untangle her when I found her,

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because I could hear this barking changed, and so I

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ran up ahead as far as I could, getting closer

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to her. Barking sound, and I could hear that she

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was very close in the underbrush, but I couldn't see her.

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And what I did was I kind of ran up

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and jumped kind of down through into a little thicket,

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and I found myself face to face with this vibrating

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thing that had a hold of my dog, or my

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dog had a hold of it, I wasn't sure at

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the second. And what I saw was a small, blurred, vibrating,

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vibrating like a paint shaker thing holding my dog by

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what looked like the mouth or the neck, vibrating even

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her just so I couldn't even barely see the outline

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of her, but it looked like there was some kind of,

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you know, massive distress going on, and she was yelping.

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And this all happened within seconds, and as I looked

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at it, it stopped vibrating for a second, glared at me,

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and then tore my dog's head in half and splitting

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her back and her body apart, blood, everything falling to

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the ground in front of me. And all I could

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think of was stop and rage and to put an

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end to this. And the branch that I had picked

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up used as a weapon, I hit it as hard

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as I could, hoping to kill it, and it fell

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to the ground as I struck its head.

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Speaker 4: You know, And I've read that the same account in

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your book, and I've heard you tell this story on

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a number of occasions. And what strikes me about the

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encounter is the fact that this being was vibrating in

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such a way. It makes me wonder what if it

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was using some type of cloaking technology and was invisible,

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but the dog was able to sense it. Maybe you

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would have walked by it and not even known it

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was there. But because she attacked it, and you said

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both her and the dog, the her and the creature

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were vibrating together.

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Speaker 1: Maybe During the last eighteen years of having to talk

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about this with many, many different people who are probably

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much more knowledligible in this area than I am, we've

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come to a conclusion that it was probably trying to

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escape and or shift dimension, that it was actually trying

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to disappear, and the possibility that my dog just happened

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to get to it at the right time. Otherwise I

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would have never seen it, it would have never been there.

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Most likely it's a speculation, but it's something that a

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lot of people have put a lot of thought into

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other people have had creatures vibrate and then disappear, So

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this is where this information is coming from.

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Speaker 6: If I may jump in here, did you sense, yes,

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did you sense anything non auditorily? Did you sense any

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00:14:56,879 --> 00:14:59,919
communication of any type from this this being?

241
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,120
Speaker 1: Well, what I sensed was right before I jumped down

242
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:09,240
into this little thicket in front of it, I felt

243
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,519
a pain go through my head, like a massive migraine.

244
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,360
And then once I struck it, it stopped. Everything kind

245
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of stopped, and as my dog fell to the ground,

246
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,440
it just kind of dissolved into herself into kind of

247
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a white ash. And the body of this little creature

248
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,200
lay on the ground with a with a hole in

249
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its head from where I had struck it.

250
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,159
Speaker 6: There was no sign of any liquid or any blood

251
00:15:41,159 --> 00:15:41,720
of yell.

252
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Speaker 1: It was blood all over from it and from my dog.

253
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Speaker 6: And that the flow of that ceased, as it would

254
00:15:50,159 --> 00:15:54,080
be with a human body or a mammal or at

255
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,200
some point or did it continue to lose blood or

256
00:15:56,279 --> 00:15:56,799
was there any.

257
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Speaker 1: Well, there was there was a substantial amount of blood

258
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,360
on the back of its head, and there are pictures

259
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:10,840
of this. Right it didn't you know, it wasn't like

260
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,840
it had cut an artery where it was pumping and flowing.

261
00:16:14,879 --> 00:16:20,120
But there a head wound has a tendency to seep

262
00:16:20,159 --> 00:16:24,480
a lot of blood. It's very vascular, even in humans.

263
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:29,679
So all I can assume at that moment was that

264
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,039
I killed it, and I had hoped I did because

265
00:16:33,639 --> 00:16:36,440
it had killed my dog and I figured I was next.

266
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,159
And again, this was all within you know, four or

267
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:44,919
five seconds of landing on the ground and just just reacting.

268
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Speaker 4: How far did you have to advance before you hit

269
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:49,559
the creature?

270
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:57,639
Speaker 1: About one step forward about you know, one we'll say,

271
00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,200
say a half a meter.

272
00:17:00,759 --> 00:17:03,120
Speaker 4: It was safe, so you were very close when you

273
00:17:03,159 --> 00:17:03,799
came upon it.

274
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,920
Speaker 1: Yes, And what I hit it with was like a

275
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,160
baseball bat.

276
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,720
Speaker 6: Oh, that would do it. Certainly, there's enough power behind

277
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,759
a swing with a baseball bat to cause some serious damage.

278
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 1: For broke its skull open, and there was actually bone

279
00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:20,720
and tissue.

280
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:27,839
Speaker 6: You know, is there is there a current website where

281
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:32,079
the listeners could uh just shoot over to your website

282
00:17:32,279 --> 00:17:34,559
and is there are there any pictures available that they

283
00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:36,480
could look at now as we speak.

284
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,480
Speaker 1: There either up and down Facebook or also on a

285
00:17:40,519 --> 00:17:43,720
website that some people put up which is an older website,

286
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:50,559
and that website is O D I S E A

287
00:17:50,839 --> 00:17:58,559
L I n K. And that's Odyssey link dot com.

288
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And that's actually.

289
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 6: Now could you discuss there was a craft associated with

290
00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:09,839
this being? Also?

291
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,160
Speaker 1: Well, right after I hit this thing, it fell to

292
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,319
the ground, and so do I with a crippling sickness,

293
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:23,519
almost a paralyzing sickness. I couldn't barely move, I couldn't

294
00:18:23,559 --> 00:18:27,519
stand up. I lost control of all my bowels and

295
00:18:27,519 --> 00:18:34,039
my bladder, and I was hyperventilating at the time, and

296
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,000
I figured I was probably going into shock, but I

297
00:18:37,039 --> 00:18:41,200
didn't know, but it felt like something was compressing my chest.

298
00:18:42,279 --> 00:18:47,119
So something happened. The second this thing hit the ground

299
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,799
to where I felt it. My body was feeling something

300
00:18:53,759 --> 00:18:58,960
pushing on me, penetrating my body. So I literally crawled

301
00:18:59,519 --> 00:19:04,720
on my hands and knees for what seemed like eternity

302
00:19:05,559 --> 00:19:07,759
until I heard a sound. I heard a sound that

303
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:16,720
was like a low, ebbing vibrational tone, really a low tone,

304
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,079
and I thought, well, maybe it's another hiker. Maybe they

305
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,480
have a radio or some kind of boombox or something.

306
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,720
And I looked around and I couldn't see anybody, and

307
00:19:27,759 --> 00:19:29,680
then I fell back down to the ground and I'd

308
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,759
crawl around and I'd hear this sound and it was

309
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:38,240
it was almost scratching at my mind. And again I

310
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:43,599
felt like somebody else was there, but there wasn't anybody there.

311
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,759
And as I kind of pushed my way around ten

312
00:19:47,839 --> 00:19:51,559
to twenty feet from this body, I stood up and

313
00:19:51,599 --> 00:19:56,039
I could see what looked like kind of a mirage

314
00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:59,079
through the underbrush. There was a lot of underbrush in

315
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:05,039
this area was a pretty dense tree canopy, so it

316
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:10,599
was kind of a dark, woodsy area. But nevertheless, I

317
00:20:10,599 --> 00:20:13,759
could see this what looked like a mirage where the

318
00:20:13,839 --> 00:20:16,880
light bends a little bit, and there was something there,

319
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:23,160
something that didn't look like a tree or underbrush, something black,

320
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,759
and so I kind of made my way toward it, thinking,

321
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,839
I don't know, maybe it's a camper. And I was

322
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:35,039
grabbing at anything I could just to control my breathing

323
00:20:35,279 --> 00:20:39,920
and to not pass out from exhaustion. And I pushed

324
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,359
through the brush and I actually fell against kind of

325
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:50,039
a hard surface, and as I did, it was freezing cold,

326
00:20:50,079 --> 00:20:52,799
and it actually kind of burned my hand like dry

327
00:20:52,839 --> 00:20:55,920
ice would burn your hand. As I pulled away from it,

328
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:04,039
and it was a black diamond shaped object that I

329
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,079
ended up calling in the book we wrote the obelisk.

330
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,519
It was approximately ten feet ten to twelve feet long,

331
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,240
three feet high and about two and a half feet wide,

332
00:21:17,319 --> 00:21:22,839
cut like a diamond, no seams, no windows, no landing gear,

333
00:21:23,839 --> 00:21:28,440
and it was about three feet off the ground, which

334
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:34,920
defied everything I could imagine, but nevertheless, that's what it was.

335
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:40,200
And as I touched it, it was making this vibrational tone,

336
00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:44,519
this low ebbing sound, and as I touched it, the

337
00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:50,599
tone changed and it became more pleasant sounding, more welcoming.

338
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,720
And again I fell to the ground, sick, throwing up,

339
00:21:55,759 --> 00:22:00,839
unable to get up, unknowing what I had come involved with.

340
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,599
I mean, everything I was looking at defied everything I

341
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:10,400
believed in. I was never into science fiction. I was

342
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:16,119
not into UFOs or aliens. I mean I was a doctor,

343
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,720
a serious doctor, and if I didn't see it, smell it,

344
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,640
and know about it, I wouldn't believe it. So this

345
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,880
was not my forte, this was not my area of study.

346
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,640
And none of this made any sense. This whole whole

347
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:38,200
arena at this point made no sense to my way

348
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,680
of life and understanding the sound of the air had

349
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,480
even changed that The feeling of the ground was was

350
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,359
sticky and almost like when I'd go to move, it

351
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,319
was like moving through water, but there was no water.

352
00:22:54,720 --> 00:23:00,000
There was just this silence and thickness in the air

353
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,119
that just, you know, was totally out of my paradigm.

354
00:23:05,599 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 6: Did you sense any odor or either around the being

355
00:23:09,599 --> 00:23:13,240
around this craft if you will, during this time.

356
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,039
Speaker 1: The whole area. The second I hid it, this creature

357
00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:20,680
and it fell to the ground, everything changed. The density

358
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,319
of the air changed, the smell of the air. It

359
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:30,119
smelled musty and old. The creature itself had a smell

360
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,880
like rotting fruit. So as I moved away from that,

361
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,039
you know, that was more pleasant to be away from it.

362
00:23:39,319 --> 00:23:42,279
The craft or whatever you want to call this black

363
00:23:42,319 --> 00:23:47,359
floating object had no smell, but it was freezing cold,

364
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,480
and like I said, there was a tone or even

365
00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:55,720
in a presence of intelligence to it that I couldn't

366
00:23:55,839 --> 00:24:00,559
I couldn't define, I couldn't fathom, but nevertheless, it was there,

367
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:05,720
It was happening, and I just felt like I was

368
00:24:05,799 --> 00:24:08,680
either going to go into complete shock or even die

369
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,519
because of the way my body was reacting to everything.

370
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,720
So the only thing I could think I was survive

371
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,359
and I thought, Okay, I've got to rest, I've got

372
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,160
to calm down. I've got to quit hyperventilating. And I

373
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,599
knew that in my pack right before I had crossed

374
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,640
this little ridge and kind of jumped in front of

375
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,839
my dog. I had set my pack down and my

376
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,599
pack had water in it, and I thought, I've got

377
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,200
to get some water. I've just got to drink water.

378
00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:44,640
I've got to calm down. I had been throwing up

379
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,160
for about an hour or so. I was definitely dehydrated.

380
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,720
So I went and tried to find my pack and

381
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,559
go back up about twenty five feet from where this

382
00:24:55,799 --> 00:24:59,960
object was, and I got my pack and I start

383
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,359
started looking for the water, and I pulled out my

384
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,160
camera and took all my camera and other things that

385
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,880
I had in my pack out to find the water.

386
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,640
So I found the water. I drank the water, and

387
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,359
I leaned against a tree and I kept thinking to myself,

388
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,759
none of this is happening, none of this can be happening,

389
00:25:19,559 --> 00:25:24,759
because it just defied everything that I had ever come

390
00:25:24,799 --> 00:25:29,799
to believe was possible in my life. And as I

391
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,920
drank the water, I realized, Okay, I've got a camera.

392
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,640
I've got a camera, because I took pictures, you know,

393
00:25:37,759 --> 00:25:40,759
as an amateur photographer. So I thought, okay, I'll take

394
00:25:40,759 --> 00:25:45,119
a picture and probably nothing will be there, because maybe

395
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,759
this is all an illusion in my mind, maybe I'm

396
00:25:47,839 --> 00:25:53,200
suffering from some kind of grand seizure. And so my

397
00:25:53,319 --> 00:25:56,759
whole methodology was to pick up the camera because I

398
00:25:56,839 --> 00:26:00,599
was used to it felt comfortable, and I decided I'd

399
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,480
take a picture of what was in front of me,

400
00:26:03,079 --> 00:26:07,400
which was the body of this creature, and I took pictures.

401
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,240
I took every bit of film I had. This was

402
00:26:10,279 --> 00:26:15,759
a thirty five millimeter film camera. This is before digital photography,

403
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:22,279
so this actually produced negatives. So I just want to

404
00:26:22,279 --> 00:26:27,400
make it clear that this was prior to photoshop. And

405
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:34,720
all of this came as kind of a comforting second

406
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,759
nature thought, not that I'm going to take big pictures

407
00:26:39,039 --> 00:26:43,039
and come out with something fantastic, but more as I'm

408
00:26:43,079 --> 00:26:45,640
going to take pictures and nothing's going to be there,

409
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,920
and I'm going to find comfort in that. So that's

410
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,400
what I did. I took picture after picture of the obelisk,

411
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,039
of the body of the area, and I took my video.

412
00:26:57,079 --> 00:27:00,200
I had a video camera, and I took video of

413
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,920
the whole thing, and at times the video camera would

414
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,559
distort and I'd get angry, and you can even hear

415
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,359
it on the recording of the video, because I thought,

416
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,720
of all times for this to start acting up, is

417
00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:20,039
now when I want to record something, And so I did.

418
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,440
I recorded it, I put it on video. I put

419
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:27,960
it on in the photographic slide film and negative film,

420
00:27:28,519 --> 00:27:31,519
and I drank water and I thought, none of this

421
00:27:31,799 --> 00:27:35,079
is going to be true, none of this is the reality.

422
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,440
And I kept talking myself out of it. I kept

423
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,279
trying to deny that any of this happened, that something

424
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:47,680
must have just happened to me. And I was afraid.

425
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,680
I was sick. I didn't know what to do. I

426
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,519
didn't know what to believe. I was alone, you know,

427
00:27:54,799 --> 00:27:59,599
sixty miles away from from what my life was really

428
00:27:59,599 --> 00:28:03,079
all about, and so I tried to survive. I tried to,

429
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,960
you know, minute by minute, think what can I do

430
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,079
just to breathe slower, just to calm down, not to

431
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:15,160
have a stroke or a heart attack. And I literally

432
00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:19,319
paste my breathing so I could slow down. And I thought,

433
00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:21,720
what am I going to do with this body? What

434
00:28:21,759 --> 00:28:24,559
am I going to do? I've killed something and it

435
00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:29,759
was small, like childlike in size, not very big, and

436
00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:33,720
you know, I looked at it and I realized, it's

437
00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:36,039
not a costume. It's not a mask.

438
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 5: You know.

439
00:28:37,319 --> 00:28:42,079
Speaker 1: The blood, the sinew, the cranial material that had come

440
00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:46,960
out of its skull was real. And as I did this,

441
00:28:47,319 --> 00:28:51,240
I kept thinking, what have I done? What have I killed?

442
00:28:51,559 --> 00:28:57,319
Maybe I'm in trouble. And my mind just reeled on

443
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,279
these many, many things, until finally I decided that I

444
00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:06,000
remember I had a thermal blanket in my pack, and

445
00:29:06,039 --> 00:29:09,880
that's a kind of a milar blanket that hikers and

446
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,720
campers use in case there's an emergency for them to

447
00:29:12,759 --> 00:29:16,400
wrap themselves up to keep warm. It's a very lightweight

448
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,559
piece of milar, about ten by eight feet in dimension,

449
00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:26,599
and so I decided I'd cover the body with that.

450
00:29:26,279 --> 00:29:31,160
That was my rationale. So I spread it out and thought, well,

451
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,319
I'll pile rocks around it to keep the animals away

452
00:29:34,319 --> 00:29:39,359
from it. Well, there were no rocks because in this

453
00:29:39,519 --> 00:29:42,799
area of the mountains, it's high enough, it's almost at

454
00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:45,400
the end of the tree line, and there just isn't

455
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,720
a lot of rocks that you can grab, and so

456
00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:52,400
I kind of pushed the thermal blanket under the corner

457
00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:56,599
of the creature and kind of wrapped it up like

458
00:29:56,799 --> 00:30:00,799
you'd put a sleeping bag or a brea, you know,

459
00:30:01,319 --> 00:30:03,400
kind of rolled it around it. I didn't want to

460
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,599
touch it, but I didn't want to see it either,

461
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,799
and I just rolled it up and thought, okay, it's

462
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,720
it's it's covered up now. And I thought, well, maybe

463
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,160
I can put it by the edge of the edge

464
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,720
of the path because there was a hill, kind of

465
00:30:19,759 --> 00:30:22,920
a hill, and maybe I can pile some branches on

466
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,640
it to keep it from from animals getting it getting

467
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,240
to it. And as I did that, I realized it

468
00:30:29,319 --> 00:30:32,440
was so light that I could literally pick it up

469
00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:35,799
with one hand. I mean, it was between forty and

470
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:41,000
maybe fifty pounds at the most. And again this defied

471
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,640
reason to me and logic, but nevertheless there it was.

472
00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:51,400
And I don't know exactly why or what my logic was,

473
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,359
but I thought, I've got to find a place to

474
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,559
hide this, to secure it. So I picked it up

475
00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:01,240
in one hand. I picked up my pack and my

476
00:31:01,319 --> 00:31:03,920
other stuff in the other, so I was kind of balanced,

477
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,279
and I just started walking back up the path to

478
00:31:08,319 --> 00:31:11,880
where I had parked my car, which was about an

479
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,839
hour coming down to this point, I had no idea

480
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,000
how long it was going to take me to get back,

481
00:31:19,039 --> 00:31:20,680
but it was starting to get dark.

482
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,279
Speaker 4: What did you think about the obelisk at this point

483
00:31:24,279 --> 00:31:26,279
when you were leaving it, did you have any thought

484
00:31:26,319 --> 00:31:26,839
about it?

485
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: Well? I pushed on it. I climbed on the end

486
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,319
of it, and it wouldn't move. And fraction of an

487
00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:35,359
inch not an inch. It was like it was anchored

488
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:35,720
to the.

489
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 6: Air and it was hovering at that point. There were

490
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:39,279
no appendages or.

491
00:31:39,359 --> 00:31:43,119
Speaker 1: Landing rug another big branch underneath it to try to

492
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,599
see if there was something underneath it, and it felt

493
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,720
that branch felt like it was going into water as

494
00:31:49,759 --> 00:31:52,880
I went underneath the surface, and then as it would

495
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,039
come up the other end, it would release. Oh if

496
00:31:56,119 --> 00:31:59,519
you ever put like an ore in the water. Yes, right,

497
00:31:59,559 --> 00:32:02,440
So there was a density underneath it that was not

498
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,279
like anywhere else around it. But I couldn't move it.

499
00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:06,200
It wouldn't move.

500
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 4: In hindsight, And I know we could talk more about

501
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,960
this later. I want you to continue your story, But

502
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,680
the obelisk. Do you feel it was a craft or

503
00:32:15,759 --> 00:32:18,559
do you feel it was more of a like a toolkit.

504
00:32:19,559 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: Well, that's That's a question that has been asked to me,

505
00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:28,880
you know, probably a million times. It wasn't, you know,

506
00:32:29,079 --> 00:32:31,839
in terms of a craft, if you and I think of,

507
00:32:32,359 --> 00:32:37,200
you know, a spacecraft like NASA. It wasn't large enough,

508
00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:42,920
but yet there were some other oddities about it. When

509
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,079
I fell against it for an instant, just for a

510
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,359
fraction of a second, I got a flash in my

511
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:55,480
mind like I was in a big black room, really

512
00:32:55,759 --> 00:33:01,839
interest with something else in that room, going uh, I'm here,

513
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,319
you're here, and then all of a sudden being thrown

514
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,079
back out like maybe I wasn't the one he was

515
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,720
looking for. Maybe he was looking for the little guy

516
00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:16,799
that was laying on the ground thirty.

517
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 4: Feet away, he being the obelisk itself.

518
00:33:19,759 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: The was was intelligent and maybe a caretaker or toolbox

519
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,079
of this little guy.

520
00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:35,519
Speaker 6: What about Anhu the doorway? Sorry, didn't mean to in

521
00:33:35,559 --> 00:33:38,240
terrupt you, But was there any sound emanating from the

522
00:33:38,279 --> 00:33:39,200
obelisk at all?

523
00:33:39,359 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: Or was there there was this low, ebbing harmonic tone?

524
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,119
Speaker 6: Okay, right right, okay? And did that change when you

525
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,200
put the branch under it at all? Was there any oscillation?

526
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,279
Speaker 1: It change when the only time it changed is when

527
00:33:53,319 --> 00:33:59,319
I first touched it, and then it became more pleasant sounding, okay,

528
00:33:59,759 --> 00:34:02,839
And from then on it was the same. It never moved,

529
00:34:03,319 --> 00:34:06,640
it never did anything to reach out to me, other

530
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,920
than I felt this weird feeling in the back of

531
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:17,199
my head, like almost a scratching migraine headache coming on.

532
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 6: Now, you mentioned you tried to jump up on top

533
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,159
of it. How did you manage that with this freezing

534
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:25,280
cold problem I had.

535
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,079
Speaker 1: I had a long sleeve shirt, like a flannel shirt on,

536
00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:31,719
and I just kind of lunged my half of my

537
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,960
body up onto it to try to push it right,

538
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,679
and it wouldn't move. I mean, it was like a

539
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:43,280
piece of granite anchored in the air. I mean it

540
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:48,079
was a density like stone, and the.

541
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,159
Speaker 6: Color of it was almost the onyx kind of a

542
00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:53,039
color as an black, and.

543
00:34:53,039 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: Had a little bit of a surface to it where

544
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:04,320
you could kind of see being beneath the surface, almost

545
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:12,760
like looking at fiberglass in resin Okay or or something

546
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:13,280
like that.

547
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,679
Speaker 6: And no markings, no no.

548
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:22,679
Speaker 1: Markings, no doors, no windows, no gaps, no thems, nothing.

549
00:35:24,519 --> 00:35:29,079
Speaker 6: Now, if I can ask you another question, obviously, there

550
00:35:29,199 --> 00:35:34,920
was a need to try to preserve this being because

551
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,960
of what happened to you. Did you give any thought

552
00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:41,840
about your poor dog that got it self ripped the

553
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,400
part in this and you obviously had to make a

554
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,880
decision there, value judgment to either take your dog back

555
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,079
to the truck or take this this new found entity.

556
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 1: I don't think you completely understood when I said, it's

557
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,039
my dog fell to the ground in a powdery act.

558
00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:01,119
Speaker 6: No, I understand that thing.

559
00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: There was nothing left of her, okay.

560
00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:06,679
Speaker 6: There was nothing to even gather up or no, no, okay,

561
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:12,119
all right, just like soot from your fireplace, and not

562
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,039
enough those if you would have, if you had a

563
00:36:14,039 --> 00:36:15,800
cremation or that type of rest.

564
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,119
Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you at the moment, I wasn't thinking.

565
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,159
Speaker 6: About that, I gotcha know, And that's.

566
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,599
Speaker 1: More about survival and I and truth. I was afraid

567
00:36:26,199 --> 00:36:29,880
what I had done. I was. I was seriously afraid

568
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:36,679
of this whole situation, not clearly logically thinking other than

569
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,320
you know, I didn't want to be in this place

570
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,559
because I felt I was so sick that I didn't

571
00:36:41,559 --> 00:36:42,800
know I was going to be able to get out

572
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,760
of there. And when I started walking back up this path,

573
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,400
which like I said, took us an hour to get

574
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,519
to that point from my jeep. All of a sudden,

575
00:36:53,559 --> 00:36:57,880
I found myself back at my jeep, like no time

576
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:03,000
had taken place, like maybe five minutes had gone by,

577
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,039
and all I thought was, there's my jeep. That looked good,

578
00:37:08,559 --> 00:37:12,360
that looked like more reality to me. So I walked

579
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,719
up to the jeep, opened the back end and set

580
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,719
this body in there with my pack, closed the door,

581
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,199
and sat in the driver's seat for I don't know

582
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:29,079
how long and just numb, just breathing and hyperventilating. And

583
00:37:29,519 --> 00:37:32,280
I was a mess. I mean I was a mess.

584
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,280
And I looked over to where my dog always sat

585
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,400
next to me, and she wasn't there, and I knew

586
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,840
something had happened. So my sense of the whole thing

587
00:37:44,079 --> 00:37:48,760
was almost not wanting to think about what really had happened,

588
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,840
just thinking about trying to get back to something that

589
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,920
looked or felt familiar, because none of this felt familiar,

590
00:37:58,039 --> 00:38:02,119
and there was no one around, so I was alone

591
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,440
in this well.

592
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 6: I think that it might be fair to you to

593
00:38:10,039 --> 00:38:12,239
put this in try to for our listeners put this

594
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:17,199
in context. You know, it's bad enough if and I

595
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:22,960
spent many years as a first responder to come and

596
00:38:23,039 --> 00:38:26,480
face to face with a traumatic situation where there's been

597
00:38:26,519 --> 00:38:31,800
this type of overwhelming trauma to deal with. You know,

598
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:36,920
whether it's an accident or whatever, it clearly will shake

599
00:38:37,039 --> 00:38:40,239
a normal individual up. And to be fair to you,

600
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,559
one can only imagine, as we're all human beings, Yeah,

601
00:38:46,599 --> 00:38:53,079
how completely overwhelming this situation could be. I mean, your

602
00:38:53,079 --> 00:38:55,559
whole you know, your whole understanding of the world around

603
00:38:55,599 --> 00:39:00,880
you is flipped on its ear instantaneously. And you know,

604
00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:04,639
accepting as a journalist, you know the validity and the

605
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,480
because you have photos and you have videotape, and I

606
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,239
would like to ask you, do you still have those

607
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:16,480
negatives and those that material that evidence intact? Okay? Based

608
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,360
on the strength of that, I would ask the listeners,

609
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,000
did you try to put themselves in your position and

610
00:39:21,159 --> 00:39:26,480
understand how completely brain numbing this would be to everything

611
00:39:26,559 --> 00:39:32,039
you understood an hour before, and how traumatic and psychologically

612
00:39:32,119 --> 00:39:35,559
debilitating this incident could be. And I say, and you know,

613
00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:38,920
as one human being to another and physical oh of course,

614
00:39:39,159 --> 00:39:42,000
I mean you're sitting there vomiting and everything else, as

615
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,119
one human being to another. I can only imagine what

616
00:39:45,159 --> 00:39:49,840
that was like for you. And I think it's kind

617
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,800
of hard to keep your head strapped on straight under

618
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:52,800
those conditions.

619
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that's why my mind, I believe, started to

620
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:03,000
look for little tiny things that were familiar, just for comfort.

621
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 6: Right, some anchor to prior reality exactly.

622
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,519
Speaker 1: And my mind kept thinking to myself, I've got to

623
00:40:09,559 --> 00:40:12,639
go home, I've got to get out of here. And

624
00:40:12,679 --> 00:40:18,679
then I realized there was a a ranger station about

625
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,679
two miles away, and I thought, okay, i'll drive there.

626
00:40:23,159 --> 00:40:26,440
That'll be good. I'll drive there, and so I drove there,

627
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,920
got in, you know, was in my jeep, drove there,

628
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,360
got sick along the way, had to stop and throw

629
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,679
up and regain some kind of composure to be able

630
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,360
to slow my breathing down, and then I'd drive more.

631
00:40:39,559 --> 00:40:42,679
And I finally got to the ranger station and got out,

632
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,599
and it was closed. I don't know where he was.

633
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:47,840
I don't know if he was at lunch, but there

634
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,679
was nobody to be found. So I just drank some

635
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,719
water out of their hose and got back in my

636
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:02,719
jeep and basically headed for home, thinking comfort, home, reality,

637
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,760
my reality. And that's what I kept in my mind

638
00:41:07,199 --> 00:41:12,159
until I found myself back, drove in my carport, and

639
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,719
again sat there in the driver's seat in the carport

640
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,239
for some time and looked in the rearview mirror, and

641
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,960
I'm thinking, maybe none of this happened. But in the

642
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,880
rearview mirror I could see the thermal blanket that was

643
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:30,159
wrapped around something, and I knew at that point something

644
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:36,199
had happened. And my mind kept reeling from one point

645
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,079
to another. Did I find my dog? Was my dog

646
00:41:40,199 --> 00:41:44,599
killed by a bear? Or did something happen that I

647
00:41:44,679 --> 00:41:49,679
couldn't bring to my mind to understand. Did I wrap

648
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,239
up my dog and bring her home? And I didn't know,

649
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,559
and I or maybe I didn't want to know because

650
00:41:58,599 --> 00:42:02,719
it didn't make sense. So I got out of the jeep,

651
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,760
I walked to the back. I opened the back of

652
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,719
the jeep and I opened this thermal blanket and then

653
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:14,159
wrapped it, and there there was this creature, bloody with

654
00:42:14,199 --> 00:42:17,480
a hole in its skull, and I knew it wasn't

655
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,960
my dog, and so I literally picked it up. Walked

656
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,960
into my garage, which was an external building from my house,

657
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,199
and opened the door and thought, where am I going

658
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,360
to put this? Where can I hide this until somebody

659
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,360
can help me? And there in front of me was

660
00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:42,719
my old freezer a big, you know, deep freeze like

661
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,920
a coffin, right, yeah, And I walked over to it,

662
00:42:47,039 --> 00:42:51,159
opened the lid, didn't have a lock on it, and

663
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,079
grabbed the basket that was inside of it because it

664
00:42:55,119 --> 00:42:56,800
really didn't have a whole lot of food in it.

665
00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,840
Took the basket out, set it on the floor, and

666
00:43:00,159 --> 00:43:02,079
just took the whole body and put it in the

667
00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:06,159
freezer and closed the door. And I just closed the

668
00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:09,159
door of the garage, walked in the house and went

669
00:43:09,199 --> 00:43:11,920
and stood in the shower for I don't know how long,

670
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,079
just to just to clean my body, just to clean

671
00:43:16,119 --> 00:43:19,280
the mess that I was and try to regain some

672
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:24,199
kind of composure. I mean, I was losing control of

673
00:43:24,639 --> 00:43:29,639
myself even emotionally at that point, and it just felt

674
00:43:29,639 --> 00:43:32,480
good to stand in the shower. It felt like, you know, home.

675
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 6: Now. Could you go back a little bit and describe

676
00:43:39,519 --> 00:43:45,880
for the listeners the specifics about the body. What, for example,

677
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,960
what was did it have two legs and two arms?

678
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,639
Speaker 1: It looked like a child. It looked like a small

679
00:43:53,679 --> 00:43:57,880
seven year old child, two legs, two arms. The arms

680
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:04,400
were longer then normal human's arms, very kind of spindily.

681
00:44:05,039 --> 00:44:09,519
It was wrapped in a dark black, if you can

682
00:44:09,599 --> 00:44:15,960
imagine like a Spandex suit with no seams, no no buttons,

683
00:44:16,039 --> 00:44:21,000
no zippers, like almost tight to its neck, and then

684
00:44:21,159 --> 00:44:25,039
its head exposed. Its hands were covered with the same material,

685
00:44:25,559 --> 00:44:28,800
and they were like mittens. There were like it looked

686
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:34,119
like three big fingers, three okay okay on each on

687
00:44:34,159 --> 00:44:37,440
each arm, on each hand, and it had two legs,

688
00:44:37,519 --> 00:44:41,159
and it had feet that were covered in the same material.

689
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,800
But it was all one. It was all one piece

690
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:51,760
of material like Spandex or even a scuba suit. It

691
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,639
was black, almost black, and shiny. It felt a little

692
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,840
bit oily, but yet there was no residue on my

693
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,880
hands when I when I did finally touch it. We

694
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:08,079
did do a topical examination a few days after I

695
00:45:08,159 --> 00:45:11,760
had brought it home, after I had called my friend

696
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:17,039
and said I need help, please come help me, and

697
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:23,079
we were able to realize that its body was basically

698
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,280
very similar to a human's body. It had ribs, it

699
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:32,679
had all the same joints, arms joints, and wrist joints

700
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,280
and shoulder joints and legs and hips, all the same

701
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:42,960
basic anatomy. I tried to cut the suit off of

702
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,800
it with an exact O knife. My friend and I

703
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,800
actually took the body out of the freezer and laid

704
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,880
it on a table that I set up in my

705
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,960
garage and tried to cut the suit. Well, it cut

706
00:45:58,119 --> 00:46:01,679
about six inches, and as soon as I pulled the

707
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:07,800
exact knife up, it sealed itself, just like a receiling material.

708
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 6: Wow.

709
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: And then I cut it again and it did it again.

710
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,960
And the third time I went to cut it, it

711
00:46:14,039 --> 00:46:17,840
wouldn't let me cut it. I could not pull the

712
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,280
exact knife down to slit the material.

713
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:22,039
Speaker 6: Holy smoke.

714
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 1: Now this was in nineteen ninety six. About six years later,

715
00:46:28,199 --> 00:46:32,519
NASA came out and said, we've invented a new self

716
00:46:32,599 --> 00:46:40,760
ceiling fabric for our astronauts. Just a coincidence, Yeah, coincidence.

717
00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 4: When you pulled the body out of the freezer, yes,

718
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,559
was it frozen or was it still pliable?

719
00:46:48,199 --> 00:46:51,760
Speaker 1: Well, it was semi frozen. It was. It was harder

720
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,280
than it was when I put it in. Now, in

721
00:46:55,440 --> 00:47:01,760
day one, when I brought it home, I went back out,

722
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,239
after standing in the shower and cleaning myself up and

723
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:09,960
talking myself out of believing that there really was this

724
00:47:10,039 --> 00:47:14,239
creature in my freezer. Again, I had comforted myself and saying, oh,

725
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,400
it has to be my dog. It's got to be

726
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,840
my dog. And I went back out, you know, confident

727
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,239
that my dog was going to be in the freezer.

728
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,159
Well again I looked at it. It wasn't my dog.

729
00:47:27,039 --> 00:47:29,320
So I went in the house that called some friends.

730
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,920
I called my girlfriend, who wasn't home. I called another

731
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,440
guy who was a really good friend of mine, and

732
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,559
I got him and I said, I need your help.

733
00:47:38,639 --> 00:47:41,119
I need you to come over here, Susie. My dog

734
00:47:41,199 --> 00:47:45,719
had died and I need help. I'm really sick. So

735
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:50,440
he came over, talked to me, you know, calmed me down,

736
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,280
and I started to tell him the story, and of

737
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,440
course he didn't believe me. He thought I was totally,

738
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:03,840
you know, out of my mind and hallucinating. And I said, okay,

739
00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:06,880
I said, then come to come to the garage with me.

740
00:48:08,639 --> 00:48:10,840
And so I took him to the garage and I said, look,

741
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,559
you look open the open the garage. The door's the freezer,

742
00:48:14,599 --> 00:48:17,800
and you look, you tell me what's in that that

743
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:23,679
thermal blanket? And he looked, and I believe he probably

744
00:48:23,679 --> 00:48:27,320
didn't breathe for almost a minute. And then we all

745
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,360
both ran in the house. And didn't say anything and

746
00:48:30,559 --> 00:48:36,840
just drank a bottle of scotch and both of us

747
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:41,000
were like, you know, again in denial and not believing

748
00:48:41,079 --> 00:48:45,000
what we had seen, what was really there. But after

749
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,400
a few hours went by, you know, he said, my

750
00:48:49,559 --> 00:48:54,239
friend said I know what this is, and I'm saying

751
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,199
to him, I don't know what it is, and I

752
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,480
don't want to I don't want to speculate. And he said, well,

753
00:48:59,519 --> 00:49:02,400
it's got to be some kind of extraterrestrial and I said,

754
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,599
I don't. I don't believe in that. I don't think so.

755
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,719
And he said, well, yes it is. It makes perfect sense.

756
00:49:11,119 --> 00:49:13,039
And he said, we got to do something about it.

757
00:49:13,039 --> 00:49:15,000
We got to call some people, We got to you know,

758
00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:18,679
and I, you know, and I said, well, you you

759
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,960
do what you have to do. I said, I can,

760
00:49:21,199 --> 00:49:25,199
you know, barely get from here to the bathroom. And

761
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:30,199
so that's how the process started. He started calling people

762
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,320
and trying to get somebody to come and look at it,

763
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,079
trying to get somebody to come and help us, because

764
00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:38,000
as far as I was concerned, I wanted to get

765
00:49:38,079 --> 00:49:41,039
rid of the whole thing. I didn't want to deal

766
00:49:41,079 --> 00:49:42,880
with it. I didn't want to see it I didn't

767
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,239
want to be around it because I assumed it was

768
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,559
making me sick, because I was still sick even at

769
00:49:48,559 --> 00:49:53,400
home for almost three days. But nevertheless, I had people

770
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,719
come to my house who I worked with, other doctors

771
00:49:58,119 --> 00:50:02,639
other from the University of Washington that I worked with.

772
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:08,079
Ten different people had seen the body during the first

773
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,559
two and a half days, and all of them said,

774
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:18,039
it's incredible, it's nothing we've ever seen. Yes, you need

775
00:50:18,079 --> 00:50:21,000
to do something with it, but most of them didn't

776
00:50:21,039 --> 00:50:23,400
know what to do, and a lot of them were

777
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:28,960
afraid of what might happen if they got involved. And

778
00:50:29,039 --> 00:50:33,079
that's how we started doing what if you want to

779
00:50:33,119 --> 00:50:39,320
call research on it. On the third day, a fella

780
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:43,559
who I worked with directly in the hospital, a friend,

781
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,599
old time friend, another doctor I had called and said,

782
00:50:47,599 --> 00:50:51,920
please come over and take a look at what I found.

783
00:50:53,199 --> 00:50:55,400
And that's about all I said on the phone. And

784
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,039
he was excited and he said, sure, you know, no problem.

785
00:50:58,039 --> 00:51:01,079
He had been over to my house many times, and

786
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:03,960
about an hour before he was supposed to get there,

787
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,639
I got a call that from him saying, I'm not coming.

788
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,880
I think you should quit this and get rid of

789
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:16,920
whatever your concern is. And he hung up, so his

790
00:51:17,079 --> 00:51:21,199
tone totally changed. His attitude was nothing like he ever

791
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,480
was before, and I was angry. I was angry. So

792
00:51:25,559 --> 00:51:27,760
I went back out to the garage to put away

793
00:51:28,159 --> 00:51:30,079
the table that I had got out on a light

794
00:51:30,199 --> 00:51:33,039
for him to look at it. And I heard this

795
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:37,000
sound in the garage. I heard this scratching or rubbing

796
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:40,440
sound like it was coming from underneath the freezer, and

797
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,440
I figured, oh, it's the compressor going out, because it

798
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,280
was an older freezer and I'd been opening and closing it,

799
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,840
you know, over the last two and a half days.

800
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:53,639
And so I figured, okay, well, if it's if it's broken,

801
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,320
if the freezer is broken, the thermometer on the inside

802
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,320
will tell me the temperature is going up, and then

803
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,199
I'm going to have to find somewhere else to put

804
00:52:02,199 --> 00:52:05,880
this body. So I took a look, I opened the door,

805
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,559
and as I opened the door the freezer, the creature

806
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:14,559
sat up, uncurled itself, and screamed at me with such

807
00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:18,920
a velocity and such a volume that it literally pushed

808
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:23,639
my chest against the wall of the garage.

809
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:25,639
Speaker 6: So even with it was.

810
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: Alive, it was totally alive.

811
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 6: Was the wound healed in its head at that time

812
00:52:31,599 --> 00:52:34,559
or was it still for the last.

813
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,679
Speaker 1: Couple of days, since I had been taking it in

814
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,079
and out of the freezer to show people and to

815
00:52:39,199 --> 00:52:42,960
do this examination, I had taken a piece of duct

816
00:52:43,039 --> 00:52:47,760
tape and literally folded back the piece of skull, the

817
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:54,039
piece of bone, you know, with all of its connections

818
00:52:54,159 --> 00:52:56,599
and all of the skin on the outside of it,

819
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,559
and just duct taped it back in place so that

820
00:52:59,599 --> 00:53:05,320
it wouldn't flop all over. And so the question remains,

821
00:53:05,599 --> 00:53:08,280
was it healed. I don't know if it healed, but

822
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:13,320
I will say it was frozen in place right. And

823
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,960
as it sat up and screamed at me, it was

824
00:53:16,039 --> 00:53:18,519
still duct taped to its head.

825
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 6: Geese.

826
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 1: And at that point I just ran out the door.

827
00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:27,880
I left the freezer open, I left the garage door open.

828
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,719
I ran in my house and just almost cowered inside

829
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,920
my house. Wow, because I figured it's I'm next. It's

830
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:35,679
coming to get me.

831
00:53:36,119 --> 00:53:41,559
Speaker 4: Yeah. I remember the watching the video of the examination

832
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,719
that you did of the creature, and I know that

833
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,599
a lot of people who you didn't notice it at

834
00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:49,159
the time, but a lot of people who watched the

835
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:53,760
video did notice how the creature's eyes blinked at one point.

836
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,639
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I will say, and again we have

837
00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:03,039
to reference when this was ninety six, I had an

838
00:54:03,079 --> 00:54:09,280
older high eight video camera, which was one of the

839
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:16,000
first smaller cassette video cameras made by Nikon branded by Sony,

840
00:54:16,039 --> 00:54:21,679
I believe. But at the time, the viewfinder was this little, tiny, tiny,

841
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:26,119
up to your one eye to look through viewfinder, and

842
00:54:26,159 --> 00:54:29,360
it was black and white, you know, just a little

843
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:33,400
tiny half inch square to look into. It wasn't like

844
00:54:33,519 --> 00:54:36,480
the view cameras of nowadays, you know, where you've got

845
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,280
this big screen. So I had to really stick my

846
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,840
eye in the thing just to even kind of find

847
00:54:44,079 --> 00:54:47,800
what I was pointing the camera at. And I didn't

848
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:52,800
realize that it was blinking. In fact, it's very it's

849
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,559
very obvious when you know what you're looking for after

850
00:54:55,599 --> 00:55:01,159
you've seen it, that it's basically playing. Possum didn't want

851
00:55:01,199 --> 00:55:02,360
me to know it was awake.

852
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 4: Could that have been or could it have been in

853
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,159
a type of a coma where you know, there are

854
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,400
people who are in a coma or even a vegetative

855
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:17,400
state where their eyes open, they blink, they move, but

856
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:19,280
yet they're still not fully conscious.

857
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 1: Well, any of that is possible. And there's one other

858
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,559
thing that we have to take into consideration. There are

859
00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:30,039
creatures on our earth that live with us that can

860
00:55:30,159 --> 00:55:34,559
actually survive and operate just on half a brain. And

861
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,719
I don't mean that as a joke, even though there's

862
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:39,880
some people that operate on half a brain.

863
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,199
Speaker 4: Or less in my experience exactly.

864
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:46,119
Speaker 1: But no, seriously, we do know that there are some

865
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:52,519
reptilians that can actually survive only with half of their

866
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:57,039
brain functioning. We also know that in humans, if people

867
00:55:57,119 --> 00:56:01,960
are injured, severely injured with a brain trauma, that our

868
00:56:02,039 --> 00:56:07,280
human brain will actually try to relocate different sections of

869
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:13,760
its memory and facilitate a new area to augment the

870
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:17,960
damage site, which is amazing when you really think about it.

871
00:56:19,639 --> 00:56:23,360
So to answer your question, I don't know if it

872
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,679
was fully conscious. I didn't realize. If I would have

873
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:29,679
realized it was blinking at the time I was walking

874
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:31,760
over it with the camera, I would have been out

875
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,119
of there. I would have been long gone.

876
00:56:34,639 --> 00:56:35,280
Speaker 4: I don't blame you.

877
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,840
Speaker 6: Well, I think it's fair to say, though it seems

878
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:42,320
somewhat congruent that the fact that there was some association

879
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,159
with this craft or the obelisk, and that was very cold.

880
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:49,880
So therefore, since you placed it in a very cold environment,

881
00:56:50,079 --> 00:56:54,119
it's not hard to stretch some logical conclusion that that

882
00:56:54,159 --> 00:56:58,639
may have been actually conducive to it remaining alive exactly.

883
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 1: So, I mean that's and then we also know that like,

884
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:05,039
for instance, penguins live their whole life at you know,

885
00:57:05,159 --> 00:57:10,559
thirty below zero, So we know that it's possible. We

886
00:57:10,639 --> 00:57:15,880
know that it's possible that a red blood air breathing

887
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:20,320
creature can survive at great low temperatures.

888
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,559
Speaker 4: Sure, well, on that note, Jonathan, we're going to take

889
00:57:23,559 --> 00:57:28,360
our first break. This first hour has flown, so stay

890
00:57:28,639 --> 00:57:31,840
where you are. Everyone will be right back after these messages.

891
00:57:32,159 --> 00:57:35,239
You're listening to Unknown Origins Radio. Don't go away.

892
00:57:37,639 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 2: Can't wait for Halloween to be scared. Coming this jew

893
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894
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895
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896
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897
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898
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899
00:58:08,159 --> 00:58:12,840
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900
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904
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905
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907
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909
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910
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912
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913
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914
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915
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916
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917
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918
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919
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923
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924
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925
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930
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931
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 8: Make sure you tune in every Monday night at ten

932
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:45,400
pm Eastern right here on the Dark Matter Radio Network

933
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,639
for Bill and Nancy Burns with Future Theater.

934
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935
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936
01:00:58,159 --> 01:00:59,440
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937
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:32,599
Speaker 4: Do you know what I am sitting here talking to

938
01:01:32,639 --> 01:01:33,559
my newte button.

939
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:36,239
Speaker 6: We're just getting ready to let you know that way

940
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:36,519
to go.

941
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 4: Mark, Okay, well, well you know what, you know it's

942
01:01:42,239 --> 01:01:44,800
it wouldn't be unknown. Yeah, life goes on, so let

943
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,239
me get back to it. Welcome back to Unknown Origins Radio.

944
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,880
I'm Mark Johnson along with Bruce Pearson, and our guest

945
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:55,079
tonight is doctor Jonathan Reid, author of the book Link

946
01:01:55,280 --> 01:02:00,840
an Extraterrestrial Odyssey. And Jonathan, before we uh went to break,

947
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:03,719
we were talking about how this creature that you had

948
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:06,840
encountered in the forest, it killed your dog, and you

949
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,199
had brought it home, showed it to some people, trying

950
01:02:09,199 --> 01:02:11,000
to figure out what you're going to do, and then

951
01:02:11,039 --> 01:02:17,800
it wakes up and uh at that point, what happens then?

952
01:02:18,239 --> 01:02:20,840
Besides you breaking.

953
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:23,119
Speaker 1: Ran in the house and called my friend, who was

954
01:02:23,159 --> 01:02:26,599
so excited, you know, about what he thought I'd found,

955
01:02:27,159 --> 01:02:29,079
and I said, you know, Gary, we got it. We

956
01:02:29,159 --> 01:02:33,400
have a bigger problem. And he came over and he said, well,

957
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,320
what what? Somebody stole it?

958
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 8: What?

959
01:02:36,039 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: And I said no, I said it's it's alive. And

960
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,960
of course he didn't believe me. Again he thought I

961
01:02:43,159 --> 01:02:47,519
was pulling his leg. I said, go look, let's go

962
01:02:47,599 --> 01:02:51,199
to the go out to the garage, and look, I said,

963
01:02:51,199 --> 01:02:54,679
maybe it ran away, because the last time I saw

964
01:02:54,719 --> 01:02:57,239
it it was like, you know, coming out of the freezer.

965
01:02:58,079 --> 01:03:01,079
And he went out, and we opened the door to

966
01:03:01,119 --> 01:03:05,840
the garage and looked in there, and it jumped out

967
01:03:06,079 --> 01:03:08,760
the same way it did and screamed at him and

968
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:12,559
me standing in front of it. We both let the

969
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:15,559
lid slam down on its head and ran in the

970
01:03:15,599 --> 01:03:21,920
house and both just sat there basically cowering because this

971
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:27,360
thing was incredibly powerful for being such a little, small

972
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:33,519
in size creature. And it was like nothing I had

973
01:03:33,599 --> 01:03:38,159
ever could ever imagine. It was powerful. This tone, this

974
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:43,800
velocity of its voice had a power to it. It

975
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:48,599
was like a weapon pushing us away, and just a

976
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:53,039
terrible scream. And I actually was able to record part

977
01:03:53,079 --> 01:03:56,480
of that scream later on on an audio tape. But

978
01:03:59,159 --> 01:04:02,039
all I can say is it scared the living daylights

979
01:04:02,039 --> 01:04:06,320
out of us, as well as everything else. And we thought, well,

980
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:08,800
it's either going to run away, or it's going to

981
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:13,559
hurt us or something, or maybe we should put it down.

982
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:19,039
Maybe it's a named animal now and we should put

983
01:04:19,039 --> 01:04:23,000
it out of its misery. And this was you know,

984
01:04:24,239 --> 01:04:27,760
our thoughts flying through the air at the moment, and

985
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:29,599
I said, well, I'm not going to do it. I'm

986
01:04:29,599 --> 01:04:31,599
not going to do it, and Gary says, well, I'll

987
01:04:31,599 --> 01:04:34,840
do it. I'll go out take a shovel you to it.

988
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,639
And we were just thinking that it was going to,

989
01:04:38,519 --> 01:04:42,039
you know, be in pain, being suffering, and or that

990
01:04:42,079 --> 01:04:46,239
it was going to jump out and hurt someone. So

991
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:51,039
that was the thought. As idiotic as it is, that

992
01:04:51,239 --> 01:04:55,760
was the thought. And so Gary went out and basically

993
01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:59,840
prepared with a blade shovel and was going to put

994
01:05:00,199 --> 01:05:04,360
down and he didn't. He couldn't do it because he

995
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,440
went in there and opened the lid and it literally

996
01:05:07,719 --> 01:05:10,559
just looked up at him and he said, I can't

997
01:05:10,599 --> 01:05:15,920
do it. And it's intelligent. He said, there's an intelligence

998
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:20,159
about it. And there was. There was truly a feeling

999
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:25,199
that it was more than just an animal, that there

1000
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:29,559
was an intelligence to it. And little by little, within

1001
01:05:30,199 --> 01:05:33,440
the next few hours, we even sat in front of

1002
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,079
it with the door of the freezer open, where it

1003
01:05:36,119 --> 01:05:39,440
would stick its head up and look around and look

1004
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:43,559
at us with these big dark eyes, these big almond

1005
01:05:43,599 --> 01:05:47,920
shaped eyes, almost like it was asking for something or

1006
01:05:48,599 --> 01:05:54,760
or wanting us to do something. And within the next

1007
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:58,920
few days I found myself sitting in front of the

1008
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:03,719
freezer and asking questions, just saying, what can I do that.

1009
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:06,880
I'm sorry I hurt you, but you killed my dog,

1010
01:06:07,639 --> 01:06:13,920
trying to explain to it for maybe a cathartic reason

1011
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:18,320
in myself, just to try to rationalize what had happened.

1012
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:22,920
And little by little, I felt like it was listening.

1013
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:27,519
It was maybe not understanding, but it was aware that

1014
01:06:27,599 --> 01:06:29,159
I was trying to communicate.

1015
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:33,639
Speaker 4: Were you feeling any feelings of anger towards it at

1016
01:06:33,639 --> 01:06:36,000
this point because of what it did do to your dog?

1017
01:06:36,119 --> 01:06:38,800
Or maybe I mixed emotions.

1018
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 1: I had mixed emotions. It had killed my dog, and

1019
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:44,639
I was angry about that, but I was also angry

1020
01:06:45,159 --> 01:06:49,159
that I had tried to kill it, and I was

1021
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:54,480
almost apologizing for it, for my own actions. And like

1022
01:06:54,519 --> 01:06:57,199
I said, little by little, I felt like it was

1023
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:02,159
trying to understand, or at least in my mind, I

1024
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:06,159
felt like it was. And then I started to feel

1025
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:08,880
that there was something else going on, like there was

1026
01:07:09,039 --> 01:07:13,760
imagery being put in my mind of my own history,

1027
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:18,199
like when I was a young boy, and those feelings,

1028
01:07:18,239 --> 01:07:21,039
those images were so vivid, it was almost like a

1029
01:07:21,079 --> 01:07:27,280
motion picture being projected into my mind, and I later

1030
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:32,480
found out that that was part of his or its communication,

1031
01:07:33,559 --> 01:07:38,239
because it started to communicate. It started to put imagery

1032
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:46,719
in my head of shapes and let's say, a landscape

1033
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:51,159
that looked not familiar to me at all, but geometry,

1034
01:07:51,199 --> 01:07:54,280
a lot of geometric shapes that didn't make any sense

1035
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:59,679
to me, and little by little I felt it was communicating.

1036
01:08:00,719 --> 01:08:04,039
Speaker 6: Now, there was no further screaming episodes after that last

1037
01:08:04,039 --> 01:08:06,000
one in the garage with your friend Gary.

1038
01:08:06,559 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 1: Well, there was one more after that, but it wasn't

1039
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:13,199
quite the same. I think it was fear. I think

1040
01:08:13,239 --> 01:08:17,039
it was afraid of us, and I can say for

1041
01:08:17,119 --> 01:08:18,920
good reason, Hey, I tried to kill it.

1042
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I mean that would engender a little period.

1043
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:24,640
Speaker 1: That was my motivation.

1044
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:29,159
Speaker 6: Is it fair to say, though, that beyond that reactionary scream,

1045
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:34,000
it did not exhibit any aggressive behavior like raising its

1046
01:08:34,039 --> 01:08:36,800
hands or coming at you or that type of thing.

1047
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:40,199
Speaker 1: Oh, it never did. In fact, I know because I

1048
01:08:40,239 --> 01:08:42,920
saw what it did to my dog, and I know

1049
01:08:43,079 --> 01:08:49,560
it could have by its own strength, strength like an orangutan,

1050
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:54,319
that it probably could have reached out and literally tore

1051
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:59,920
me apart, because I saw that happen. So it never

1052
01:09:00,359 --> 01:09:03,000
showed any type of aggression.

1053
01:09:03,039 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 6: Toward me, and no further I'm sorry, I was.

1054
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:09,720
Speaker 1: Just going to say, in fact, as time went by,

1055
01:09:10,239 --> 01:09:13,479
you know, the book that I wrote is about the

1056
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:17,159
first nine days that I was actually with this thing

1057
01:09:17,199 --> 01:09:21,319
in my home, in my garage, and close to the

1058
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:25,399
eighth day, I had actually tried to give it food.

1059
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:29,800
I had tried to give it anything that would would

1060
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:33,960
help it and cause it to understand that I was

1061
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:39,760
not a threat. I tried dog food and all kinds

1062
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:43,600
of things, and it wouldn't eat anything. It wouldn't It

1063
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:46,560
would touch it, it might smell it, but it wouldn't

1064
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,560
eat it. It actually got out of the freezer and

1065
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:53,359
would sit kind of rocking back and forth on its

1066
01:09:53,399 --> 01:09:57,159
haunches right in front of the freezer. And I finally

1067
01:09:57,279 --> 01:10:00,239
put some water on the floor and it drank some water.

1068
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:04,279
And that's the only thing that it ever took. And

1069
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:07,560
one day I put some water in a little metal

1070
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:11,920
cup and reached out as far as I could and

1071
01:10:12,079 --> 01:10:18,159
handed it to it, and it touched my hand in

1072
01:10:18,279 --> 01:10:21,199
taking the water and taking the cup. But it was

1073
01:10:21,319 --> 01:10:26,560
so gentle, and it was watching my reaction when it

1074
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:30,439
touched me, so it was it was testing me.

1075
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:35,079
Speaker 6: Interesting And how did I feel what it touched?

1076
01:10:35,119 --> 01:10:35,199
Speaker 3: You?

1077
01:10:35,239 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 6: I had what was the feel of its skin or temperature?

1078
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 1: Very very gentle. It just touched the outside of my

1079
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:44,239
fingers wrapped around this cup. And like I said, the

1080
01:10:46,079 --> 01:10:50,279
material on its hands and on its body was like

1081
01:10:51,399 --> 01:10:58,720
a skin tight fabric. But during the topical examination, when

1082
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:01,680
I was actually able to feel the bone structure, I

1083
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:05,840
could feel that there were actually five fingers inside of

1084
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:08,479
this mitten like glove. Wow. Wow.

1085
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:15,439
Speaker 6: There was no further contact with the with the vehicle

1086
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:16,520
if you will, or the craft.

1087
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:20,199
Speaker 1: No after that, no, Well, the next day, my friend

1088
01:11:20,399 --> 01:11:24,640
Gung Ho, as he was scary, decided he'd take a

1089
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:28,439
truck and some chains and try to go up and

1090
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:33,319
bring it back. And it wasn't there. There was nothing there.

1091
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:37,079
In fact, some of the ferns that were underneath it

1092
01:11:37,119 --> 01:11:40,960
that I had actually pulled out when I used the

1093
01:11:41,359 --> 01:11:44,920
other branch to kind of go underneath it were almost

1094
01:11:45,079 --> 01:11:49,760
like they had been replanted or like the time had

1095
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:51,680
never happened. Wow.

1096
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:57,319
Speaker 6: Were you able to photograph or videotape any of these

1097
01:11:58,119 --> 01:12:02,199
interactions between you and the creature in front of you, know,

1098
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:04,840
rocking on its haunches or any of that.

1099
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:08,800
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I was. I was able to photograph a

1100
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:13,479
lot of things. Wow. But as the story goes, during

1101
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:18,239
this nine day period, somebody knocked on my door of

1102
01:12:18,359 --> 01:12:21,880
my house in the afternoon and there were there were

1103
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:23,439
three people there in.

1104
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:26,279
Speaker 6: Suits, right, let's get into this.

1105
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:30,199
Speaker 1: And saying, doctor Reid, we need to talk to you

1106
01:12:31,039 --> 01:12:34,560
about what you found. And I said I didn't find anything,

1107
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:40,039
and he said, we know you did. We know that

1108
01:12:40,119 --> 01:12:43,119
it's very serious what you found, and you need to

1109
01:12:43,239 --> 01:12:46,159
listen to what we have to tell you. And of

1110
01:12:46,199 --> 01:12:50,159
course I was angry and arrogant, and I didn't, you know,

1111
01:12:50,319 --> 01:12:53,720
still sick from what was going on, and I didn't

1112
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:58,039
want anybody poking into, you know, into my business, into

1113
01:12:58,079 --> 01:13:03,079
my house, my private life. But yet they knew. Somehow

1114
01:13:03,119 --> 01:13:07,800
they knew. And I don't know if they'd monitored phone conversations.

1115
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:10,159
I don't know if they had found out through other

1116
01:13:10,239 --> 01:13:12,399
people that had been in my house. But these people

1117
01:13:13,359 --> 01:13:20,000
were eerily like men in black, like the description you

1118
01:13:20,079 --> 01:13:24,880
hear of the agents, who are very professional and very

1119
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:32,119
well spoken, and every word formally introduced, almost in a

1120
01:13:32,239 --> 01:13:36,840
hypnotic state, to where they're telling you if you don't

1121
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:40,000
work with us. The next people that will come will

1122
01:13:40,079 --> 01:13:41,279
tear your life apart.

1123
01:13:42,279 --> 01:13:44,880
Speaker 6: Did they indicate who they at any time who they

1124
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:46,920
were with or did you inquire as to.

1125
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:51,239
Speaker 1: Yes, they said, they said, without any question, we are

1126
01:13:51,279 --> 01:13:56,359
with a group called the School. And I said, what school?

1127
01:13:56,840 --> 01:14:00,560
You know? And they just continued with their with their

1128
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:04,840
diatribe of how this was going to ruin my life

1129
01:14:05,079 --> 01:14:10,359
and ruin my family, and that nobody is ready and

1130
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:13,560
prepared to deal with this kind of thing, and neither

1131
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:17,039
was I. And they were right, but I wasn't going

1132
01:14:17,079 --> 01:14:19,680
to concede to them. I was not going to fold.

1133
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:22,520
And I said, I'm going to call the police. And

1134
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:26,359
they said, well, the police is with us. And I

1135
01:14:26,399 --> 01:14:28,760
looked out my front door and there was a police

1136
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,239
car sitting in front of their car.

1137
01:14:32,279 --> 01:14:34,359
Speaker 6: And this was a state trooper Corps or a local

1138
01:14:34,359 --> 01:14:34,960
police or.

1139
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 1: Share the local Seattle police and.

1140
01:14:38,319 --> 01:14:42,479
Speaker 6: The city of Seattle. Yes, were you ever able to

1141
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,279
follow up on that and determine did you have the

1142
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:48,159
ability to stay acquired?

1143
01:14:48,319 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 1: We inquired through people that I even personally knew who

1144
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:55,960
were Seattle police, and they said they had no indication

1145
01:14:56,439 --> 01:15:00,359
that this had ever happened. I gave a copy of

1146
01:15:00,399 --> 01:15:07,479
my videotape to a local television station, which was ki

1147
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:10,640
RO Channel seven television in Seattle.

1148
01:15:10,399 --> 01:15:13,079
Speaker 6: Which is a major station and a major sandization.

1149
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:17,720
Speaker 1: I had indicated what it was and that you know,

1150
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:21,359
this was something that I'd found and that they could

1151
01:15:21,399 --> 01:15:25,600
check and verify who I was. And within i'd say

1152
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:28,520
two hours of me dropping that off with a producer

1153
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:31,359
of the station, I got a call from the producer

1154
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:35,279
who said, doctor Reid, I don't know what you're into,

1155
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:39,600
but your tape and everything else has been confiscated and

1156
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:41,199
these guys are coming after you.

1157
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:48,800
Speaker 6: Wow. Well, that rings true to other incidents in my

1158
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:52,800
investigative experience and personal experience too, so I can tell

1159
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:56,880
you that I don't dispute the validity of that statement

1160
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:57,239
at all.

1161
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:00,760
Speaker 1: Well, on the ninth day, after bringing the thing home,

1162
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:04,640
after it waking up, after it proving to me and

1163
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:10,439
to friends who had seen it alive and awake, I

1164
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,920
drove home to find two big vans in front of

1165
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:18,399
my house, parked up in my yard basically carting things

1166
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:23,840
out of my house. Men and like moving men clothes,

1167
01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:28,720
you know, like jumpsuits, taking hand trucks of things out

1168
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:32,199
of my house. Well, I didn't stop. I drove up

1169
01:16:32,239 --> 01:16:34,760
to another friend's house and waited for a while, and

1170
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:38,399
came back and found that my house had been ransacked,

1171
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:42,279
and not only had they taken most of everything in

1172
01:16:42,319 --> 01:16:45,840
the house, but they had poked holes in the floor,

1173
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:49,880
in the plasterboard walls, in the ceiling like they were

1174
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:55,800
looking for something, and systematically poking holes in the yard,

1175
01:16:55,920 --> 01:17:00,840
in the grass, and taking the toilet off of the floor,

1176
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:04,960
leaving it just laying aside in the bathroom, and the

1177
01:17:05,039 --> 01:17:08,560
state removed from the wall, and the water running everywhere,

1178
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:13,479
and stove pulled out, refrigerator pulled out, I mean, just

1179
01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:17,560
really ransacked the house. And I went to the garage

1180
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:20,960
and the garage door wasn't just open, they had pried

1181
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:23,399
the whole door frame out of the garage.

1182
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:24,239
Speaker 6: Wow.

1183
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:29,199
Speaker 1: And of course the freezer was gone, and so were

1184
01:17:29,319 --> 01:17:31,479
a lot of other things that didn't make any sense,

1185
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:34,960
Like there was a cord of wood chopped and piled

1186
01:17:35,039 --> 01:17:38,760
up in my garage and they took the whole court

1187
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:43,439
of wood. What you know, why would that be? You know,

1188
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:45,880
it didn't make any sense. But the freezer was gone,

1189
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:49,640
so immediately I assumed, oh, well, they got him you know,

1190
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:54,439
they took him and as I was looking, I saw

1191
01:17:54,520 --> 01:18:02,239
some small, wet looking footprints, of silvery wet footprints on

1192
01:18:02,319 --> 01:18:07,039
the floor. And they didn't go to the door or

1193
01:18:07,119 --> 01:18:10,039
to the big door, the big garage door. They went

1194
01:18:10,359 --> 01:18:14,560
directly to the wall, like he had walked right through

1195
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:18,199
the wall, and I had hoped he got away.

1196
01:18:19,359 --> 01:18:22,840
Speaker 4: Well, I know a lot of other experiencers have reported

1197
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:25,640
that type of phenomenon, these beings being able to move

1198
01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:27,520
through solid walls and windows.

1199
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:32,479
Speaker 1: Well, about six months later, I was I had left

1200
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:38,119
the country. I my family was being harassed, my friends

1201
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:43,479
and houses were being broken into, and you know, I

1202
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:46,000
was being run off the road several times. So I

1203
01:18:46,119 --> 01:18:51,039
left Seattle and left the country for Vancouver, Canada, and

1204
01:18:51,119 --> 01:18:54,079
I lived in my car for you know, on and

1205
01:18:54,119 --> 01:18:59,920
off for about a year, homeless, no money, you know,

1206
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:04,000
I didn't know what to do. And one day I

1207
01:19:04,239 --> 01:19:09,359
was in this kind of abandoned apartment that I had

1208
01:19:09,399 --> 01:19:14,600
found to kind of live in temporarily, and this little guy,

1209
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:19,840
which we call started calling Freddie, this little alien just

1210
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:23,560
appeared in the corner of the room. And at first

1211
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:26,359
I thought, well, it's an illusion, it's just my mind

1212
01:19:26,399 --> 01:19:30,439
playing tricks. On me, But it wasn't. It just appeared

1213
01:19:31,279 --> 01:19:36,479
like it just warped into my reality and literally walked

1214
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:39,800
over and sat in front of me, kind of rocking

1215
01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:42,560
back and forth, just looking at me. And I could

1216
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:48,079
feel it scratching in my mind, almost like it was saying,

1217
01:19:48,199 --> 01:19:50,119
I'm here, I'm here, see me.

1218
01:19:51,439 --> 01:19:53,760
Speaker 6: Could I interrupt for a second. Can we back up

1219
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:56,560
a couple steps because I want to, you know, looking

1220
01:19:56,600 --> 01:20:01,720
at this as an investigative journalist, after they I mean

1221
01:20:01,720 --> 01:20:05,720
they not only burglarized your house, they ransacked so it

1222
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:09,600
was uninhabitable. Did you file a police report at that

1223
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:12,079
time on that incident?

1224
01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:15,199
Speaker 1: Let me let me tell you so much was happening

1225
01:20:15,319 --> 01:20:20,800
so quickly. One day during the nine days when at first,

1226
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:24,600
when I first brought it home, my assistant that I

1227
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:27,880
worked with at the University Washington Medical Center called me

1228
01:20:29,159 --> 01:20:33,800
at home and said, Jonathan, are you are you changing departments?

1229
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:37,800
Are you moving? And I said no, And he said, well,

1230
01:20:38,319 --> 01:20:43,439
they've completely disassembled your office and they've taken it. They've

1231
01:20:43,439 --> 01:20:46,399
taken everything out of your office, all the computers, all

1232
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:50,199
your books, all your filing cabinets. I mean, they've they've

1233
01:20:50,239 --> 01:20:56,119
taken your whole office apart and I said no, As

1234
01:20:56,159 --> 01:21:01,520
far as I know, nobody told me. And later on

1235
01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:07,239
I called my own office and asked for doctor Reed

1236
01:21:08,399 --> 01:21:10,920
and they said, we have no listening for a doctor Reid.

1237
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:16,800
Now I had worked there for over eleven years. Jeez

1238
01:21:18,239 --> 01:21:23,600
So told that if they talked about me, if they

1239
01:21:24,119 --> 01:21:27,680
made any reference to me, that their job and their

1240
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:31,960
security of their family could have been in grave danger.

1241
01:21:32,399 --> 01:21:34,199
Speaker 6: Well, we haven't heard this before, have we.

1242
01:21:34,319 --> 01:21:37,800
Speaker 1: I don't know they that they could in fact be

1243
01:21:38,239 --> 01:21:44,640
an accomplice to a major felony. Now I have had people,

1244
01:21:45,399 --> 01:21:48,399
those people, those friends of mine, people who worked with me.

1245
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:53,279
I have their testimonies on videotape. I've had them on

1246
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:59,119
our bell before. Some of them have traveled with me. Uh,

1247
01:21:59,680 --> 01:22:06,560
you know, I have substantial amount of credible information from

1248
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:09,680
other people who knew me, who knew I worked there.

1249
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:18,520
All of my credentials from my two universities was gone overnight, erased,

1250
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:20,920
absolutely unavailable.

1251
01:22:21,359 --> 01:22:22,800
Speaker 6: Sounds like Bob Lazora.

1252
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:26,880
Speaker 1: Actually, well, all I know is I had to go

1253
01:22:26,960 --> 01:22:30,640
and find a couple of professors that actually I had

1254
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:34,399
classes with and get their testimony to prove in fact

1255
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:37,239
who I was and that I did in fact graduate

1256
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:40,560
from San Diego State and from UCLA.

1257
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:45,359
Speaker 4: When they ransacked the house and they took everything. What

1258
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:48,640
happened to all the photos and videos and the evidence

1259
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:50,760
that you took of the creature during that time.

1260
01:22:51,159 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 1: Well, luckily, about a day before that, my friend's house,

1261
01:22:57,239 --> 01:23:01,720
Gary had somebody had broke into his house and did

1262
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:05,159
the same thing, but not as extensively, but just kind

1263
01:23:05,159 --> 01:23:09,079
of went through everything. But it wasn't just a normal

1264
01:23:09,159 --> 01:23:13,680
burglar because he had money laying on his credenza that

1265
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:17,199
wasn't touched. He had all kinds of great stereo equipment

1266
01:23:17,279 --> 01:23:22,319
that wasn't touched. All they took with his cameras and

1267
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:26,920
anything to do with film or videotape, that's what they took,

1268
01:23:28,359 --> 01:23:32,319
and yet took a point at that point he made

1269
01:23:32,359 --> 01:23:35,720
a phone call to me. He said, take at least

1270
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:39,439
half of everything you've got and put it in the car,

1271
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:43,279
take it away and go mail it to somebody. And

1272
01:23:43,319 --> 01:23:45,960
I did. I mailed it out of the country in fact,

1273
01:23:46,119 --> 01:23:50,039
and that's the only material I have left. That's why

1274
01:23:50,479 --> 01:23:55,359
about sixty percent of it is gone. Wow, because when

1275
01:23:55,399 --> 01:23:58,880
they came through my house, they took everything. They took everything.

1276
01:24:01,159 --> 01:24:05,159
Speaker 4: Now Here you are, you're in Vancouver, living in an

1277
01:24:05,199 --> 01:24:09,399
abandoned apartment, and right the sentity shows back up and

1278
01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:11,640
appears to you. And what happens then.

1279
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:17,520
Speaker 1: Well, at that point, I halfway didn't believe it. I

1280
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:20,760
halfway thought, well, it's you know, I'm just losing my

1281
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:24,279
mind because of everything that's happened. I mean, I've lost

1282
01:24:24,359 --> 01:24:29,640
my life, I've lost my my livelihood, which I was

1283
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:36,600
passionate about. I loved my job, and I was I

1284
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:41,600
was feeling very low, very abandoned, and didn't know where

1285
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:45,800
to turn because every time I would turn somewhere, people

1286
01:24:45,880 --> 01:24:51,119
would be attacked my family, my friends, literally.

1287
01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:53,920
Speaker 4: Attacked by physically physically assaulted.

1288
01:24:54,399 --> 01:24:58,520
Speaker 1: Yes, And so I decided that I was, you know,

1289
01:24:58,680 --> 01:25:01,000
the only real way to deal with this was to

1290
01:25:01,079 --> 01:25:04,399
take me out of the equation. So that's why I

1291
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:10,800
left the country. And after living, you know, homeless for

1292
01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:14,520
almost a year, I was, I was on the on

1293
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:17,960
the end of my ropes, and I was. I got

1294
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:21,399
to the point where I was sitting in this basement

1295
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:26,039
without any electricity, without any money, without any real hope,

1296
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:28,560
and I had a gun in one hand, and I

1297
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:32,119
had a phone number in the other, and I had

1298
01:25:32,159 --> 01:25:36,439
been given this phone number during those nine days by

1299
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:39,199
some people who just came up to me, like in

1300
01:25:39,239 --> 01:25:43,640
a store and said, Jonathan, you're not going to believe us,

1301
01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:46,119
but you're going to need this phone number at some

1302
01:25:46,319 --> 01:25:49,560
time because you're going to need to trust somebody. Well,

1303
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:53,079
at that point, I didn't believe nor trust anyone, especially

1304
01:25:53,199 --> 01:25:56,439
not people in a grocery store handed me some phone number,

1305
01:25:56,960 --> 01:26:00,840
so luckily I kept it. I put it in my wallet.

1306
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:04,159
I kept it. And now I was sitting, like I said,

1307
01:26:04,199 --> 01:26:06,319
with a gun in one hand and a phone number,

1308
01:26:06,359 --> 01:26:10,600
and I thought, well, I can shoot myself anytime and

1309
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:14,039
end this vein, but I might as well call the

1310
01:26:14,079 --> 01:26:18,279
phone number, just for curiosity's sake. And so I did

1311
01:26:18,840 --> 01:26:22,479
and the phone I went to a payphone. I called

1312
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:26,479
this number, and the people answered and immediately said, Jonathan,

1313
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:27,960
what can we do to help you?

1314
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:32,640
Speaker 6: Like they were all waiting for you me wow.

1315
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:37,039
Speaker 1: And I immediately hung up. I mean, I was paranoid.

1316
01:26:37,119 --> 01:26:39,640
I was scared to death about what this was. So

1317
01:26:40,079 --> 01:26:43,039
I waited for an hour and I called back and

1318
01:26:43,319 --> 01:26:46,439
the same voice on the phone said, Jonathan, we're here

1319
01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:50,520
to help you. What can we do? Tell us what

1320
01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:53,359
we can do? Do you need money? Do you need

1321
01:26:53,399 --> 01:26:56,760
a doctor. Do you need a place to live? And

1322
01:26:57,239 --> 01:27:01,399
I was arrogant, and I said, fine, I need some money.

1323
01:27:01,439 --> 01:27:04,840
Put some money somewhere and I'll pick it up, you know.

1324
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:08,279
So I gave them instructions of what to do. They

1325
01:27:08,359 --> 01:27:12,439
followed it to the letter. I watched them put an

1326
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:16,039
envelope with money in a place where it was in public,

1327
01:27:16,199 --> 01:27:19,920
open space, and they walked away. And I had told them,

1328
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:22,760
I said, if anybody's around there, I said, I'm not

1329
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:25,119
even gonna call you or pick it up or nothing.

1330
01:27:26,079 --> 01:27:29,840
But they did what I had asked them. They left

1331
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:33,600
me three hundred dollars and I picked it up and

1332
01:27:33,640 --> 01:27:36,000
there was a note inside that says, call us when

1333
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:36,520
you're ready.

1334
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 4: Did you Were you afraid at this point that these

1335
01:27:40,439 --> 01:27:43,439
people were involved with these other people from the quote

1336
01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:44,520
on sports School, Of.

1337
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:47,720
Speaker 1: Course, I figured that's who they were, that they were

1338
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:51,840
baiting me, So I was as careful. I mean, I

1339
01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:54,399
had the gun with me. I was ready to kill

1340
01:27:54,439 --> 01:27:59,000
somebody if they walked up to me. And you know,

1341
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:04,159
to to make a long story short, you know, when

1342
01:28:04,199 --> 01:28:08,319
you lose your sense of reality, you don't care anymore

1343
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:12,000
about right and wrong. You just care about survival. Exactly

1344
01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:16,840
and I didn't care. I really didn't care because my

1345
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:19,560
life was over as far as I knew. You know,

1346
01:28:19,640 --> 01:28:22,279
I had no home, I had no friends, I couldn't

1347
01:28:22,319 --> 01:28:27,520
talk to my family, nothing, And at that point, you know,

1348
01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:31,119
I was really struggling just to survive, just to eat.

1349
01:28:31,159 --> 01:28:35,359
I mean, I was stealing food. I had lost like

1350
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:42,560
seventy five pounds, you know, and it was terrible. It

1351
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:43,960
was very, very traumatic.

1352
01:28:44,279 --> 01:28:45,319
Speaker 4: They helped me.

1353
01:28:45,439 --> 01:28:48,800
Speaker 1: They proved to me that they did what they said

1354
01:28:48,840 --> 01:28:52,520
they would do. And I called them about I don't know,

1355
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:55,760
four or five days later, and I said, I don't

1356
01:28:55,760 --> 01:28:58,800
even know why I'm calling you, and they said, well,

1357
01:28:59,239 --> 01:29:02,560
you know, let's talk about it. And they were very

1358
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:06,920
careful and very gentle. They didn't force me to talk

1359
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:10,119
about anything I didn't want to, but they provided me

1360
01:29:11,079 --> 01:29:16,880
with some comfort in saying, we know what you're dealing with.

1361
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:19,800
We've dealt with other people that have had these kind

1362
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:23,760
of experiences. We know that it's not comfortable for you,

1363
01:29:25,199 --> 01:29:28,800
but we can help you. We can help you understand

1364
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:34,119
this if you want to. They did, and they did.

1365
01:29:34,359 --> 01:29:37,680
Speaker 4: What amazes me what really interests me in about this

1366
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:40,079
part of your story? And I read the part in

1367
01:29:40,119 --> 01:29:43,560
the book where these people who had approached you and

1368
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:49,680
to me, it's very similar to what Stan Lisa Romanek

1369
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:54,159
had dealt with with Stan's story. Because of this whole

1370
01:29:55,119 --> 01:29:59,880
good and evil, black and white shadow type government or

1371
01:30:00,239 --> 01:30:03,920
and groups within groups. You have the negative ones, the

1372
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:08,720
men in blaque, the ones that make the experiencers' lives hell.

1373
01:30:09,359 --> 01:30:13,119
And then there was the there seems to be either

1374
01:30:13,319 --> 01:30:17,079
a subgroup within there or a separate group of people

1375
01:30:17,159 --> 01:30:21,319
who seem to help people like yourself within these situations.

1376
01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:25,279
Speaker 1: Well, all I know is that both of those groups exist,

1377
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:31,800
and they both changed the reality of the way I

1378
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:35,000
was living. You know, one drove me to the brink

1379
01:30:35,039 --> 01:30:41,359
of almost suicide and the other brought me back. And

1380
01:30:41,479 --> 01:30:44,560
I kept asking the question, why why are you doing this?

1381
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:48,039
Why do you care about me? And they said, it's

1382
01:30:48,479 --> 01:30:51,880
it's not just you, It's that this is happening to many,

1383
01:30:51,960 --> 01:30:55,560
many people all over the world, and that you know,

1384
01:30:55,720 --> 01:30:59,960
what you're going through is an important issue, even though

1385
01:31:00,159 --> 01:31:02,319
you may not think so, even though you may not

1386
01:31:02,439 --> 01:31:05,319
even believe what has happened to you, it is an

1387
01:31:05,399 --> 01:31:09,079
important issue. And little by little they made me understand

1388
01:31:09,279 --> 01:31:13,960
why it was important. It's important because it is happening

1389
01:31:14,359 --> 01:31:18,680
to thousands of people, and that a lot of us

1390
01:31:18,880 --> 01:31:22,399
don't come out. A lot of us don't ever talk

1391
01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:26,319
about it. We're driven so far underground. Either we just

1392
01:31:28,159 --> 01:31:31,880
pretend it never happened, or we're convinced that if we

1393
01:31:31,960 --> 01:31:35,920
ever talk about it, people will isolate us and call

1394
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:39,960
us insane, which a lot of times happens. That's right,

1395
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:43,960
But I was told that it was important for people

1396
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:48,319
to know that there are others that have experienced this,

1397
01:31:48,439 --> 01:31:51,560
that we're not insane, and that there is a reality

1398
01:31:52,199 --> 01:31:55,479
that we don't know about that we've never given a

1399
01:31:55,600 --> 01:31:59,319
chance to, at least myself because it wasn't part of

1400
01:31:59,359 --> 01:32:02,720
my life. I wasn't part of my paradigm. And over

1401
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:08,760
the last eighteen years since that first encounter, like I

1402
01:32:08,960 --> 01:32:13,000
just told you, he has come back. In fact, he's

1403
01:32:13,079 --> 01:32:16,840
come back many many times in front of me and

1404
01:32:16,920 --> 01:32:20,800
in front of other people that know me. Wow, this

1405
01:32:20,880 --> 01:32:26,159
is not an isolated issue. This has happened, maybe more

1406
01:32:26,199 --> 01:32:29,399
than fifty times in the last eighteen years.

1407
01:32:29,880 --> 01:32:32,079
Speaker 6: How the follow up questions, if I made real quick

1408
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:36,920
did this the helpful group? Did they identify who they were?

1409
01:32:37,359 --> 01:32:39,840
You were told the other ones were with the school.

1410
01:32:40,840 --> 01:32:43,920
Who's this helpful group of people? Do they Do you

1411
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:46,359
have any idea where they're from or what you know

1412
01:32:46,479 --> 01:32:48,600
their makeup? Is it the same people you talk to

1413
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:49,199
each time?

1414
01:32:49,359 --> 01:32:53,800
Speaker 1: No, it's not the same group as the negative people

1415
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:54,239
of you.

1416
01:32:54,239 --> 01:32:55,239
Speaker 6: No, No, I understand it.

1417
01:32:55,359 --> 01:32:59,920
Speaker 1: And it's also initially it was the same people I talked.

1418
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:03,279
There was a confidence issue. They wanted to ensure that

1419
01:33:03,399 --> 01:33:06,479
I stayed with the same people and that I became

1420
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:10,880
familiar with them. And at one point they even said,

1421
01:33:11,119 --> 01:33:14,239
we know you have something, Jonathan, we know you have

1422
01:33:14,279 --> 01:33:21,199
an artifact besides the creature, and if you ever need

1423
01:33:21,279 --> 01:33:23,880
help dealing with that, And of course I was paranoid

1424
01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:25,840
and I immediately thought, oh, they're going to take it.

1425
01:33:26,199 --> 01:33:29,840
They're going to take it from me. And the one

1426
01:33:29,880 --> 01:33:33,319
guy said, well, Jonathan will show you ours if you

1427
01:33:33,399 --> 01:33:37,119
show them show us yours. And I said, well, what

1428
01:33:37,159 --> 01:33:41,399
do you mean and he says, well, we've collected artifacts

1429
01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:45,600
for over the last hundred years.

1430
01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:46,000
Speaker 6: Wow.

1431
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:50,479
Speaker 1: And some of them are broken, some of them are

1432
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:57,239
dismantled and not complete, and some are complete. And I said, fine,

1433
01:33:57,319 --> 01:33:59,399
you show me yours and then I will think about

1434
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:02,520
me showing you what I've got and so they did.

1435
01:34:03,439 --> 01:34:09,600
They took me in an airplane and flew to All

1436
01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:13,039
I can say is it was a desert ye region,

1437
01:34:13,319 --> 01:34:17,840
kind of like Arizona or New Mexico by that feeling.

1438
01:34:19,239 --> 01:34:22,680
And we went into a car and we went into

1439
01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:27,800
a kind of a warehouse, small warehouse, into an elevator,

1440
01:34:28,239 --> 01:34:33,800
and they showed me some things that defy my understanding

1441
01:34:34,239 --> 01:34:43,960
of reality and objects that totally did not represent my

1442
01:34:44,159 --> 01:34:50,520
way of science, my way of thinking. And it wasn't

1443
01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:54,960
an illusion, it wasn't a projection, it wasn't a drug

1444
01:34:55,000 --> 01:34:59,720
induced state of mind. I was there physically. I saw

1445
01:34:59,760 --> 01:35:04,199
these things. I touched some of them, and they were miraculous.

1446
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:07,359
I saw a thing that was the size of like

1447
01:35:07,439 --> 01:35:14,079
a a school bus that was all made of something

1448
01:35:14,199 --> 01:35:14,880
like glass.

1449
01:35:16,479 --> 01:35:18,239
Speaker 4: Did any of these objects function?

1450
01:35:19,039 --> 01:35:20,319
Speaker 1: Say, let's see.

1451
01:35:20,640 --> 01:35:23,239
Speaker 4: I was asking, did any of these objects still function?

1452
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:27,640
Speaker 1: Yes? And when I touched the side of this glass sculpture,

1453
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:34,199
this glass object, it rippled in color like it was

1454
01:35:34,359 --> 01:35:39,199
feeling my touch. And the guy with me said, get

1455
01:35:39,279 --> 01:35:44,399
angry and slap it, and I did, and it changed

1456
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:48,760
in color and its reaction as if it was reacting

1457
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:50,399
to my anger, my emotions.

1458
01:35:51,840 --> 01:35:57,239
Speaker 4: Huh. The artifact that you found. Yes, can you talk

1459
01:35:57,279 --> 01:35:57,680
about that?

1460
01:35:58,279 --> 01:36:00,600
Speaker 1: Yes? And this is the name of the book. The

1461
01:36:00,640 --> 01:36:05,119
book is called Link and the device I call the

1462
01:36:05,239 --> 01:36:12,079
Link artifact. It is a silver bracelet type device that

1463
01:36:12,520 --> 01:36:16,920
I've determined is worn on the wrist of the little

1464
01:36:16,960 --> 01:36:23,079
guy that I found. We've determined that it does function.

1465
01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:29,520
It is self powered. It produces a pulse of radiation

1466
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:37,319
every quarter second. It has a silver surface with some

1467
01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:42,399
hieroglyphs on it that are like almost like buttons. They're

1468
01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:45,000
a little bit raised from the surface and they're black.

1469
01:36:47,079 --> 01:36:53,439
I have no idea what those those hieroglyphs mean. We've

1470
01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:56,159
put it out to the public to all kinds of

1471
01:36:56,199 --> 01:36:59,800
people to figure out what they mean. One of them

1472
01:36:59,920 --> 01:37:06,960
is similar to the Egyptian hieroglyph for raw or door.

1473
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:14,119
This device is very unique because I put it on

1474
01:37:14,399 --> 01:37:19,079
the arm of the creature when he was unconscious, or

1475
01:37:19,079 --> 01:37:23,119
when I thought he was unconscious, And it's like a cuff.

1476
01:37:23,239 --> 01:37:26,680
It's like a cuff, open ended, and when I put

1477
01:37:26,720 --> 01:37:31,640
it on its arm, it closed tightly around its arm

1478
01:37:32,479 --> 01:37:38,039
on this black fabric and it instantly turned dark, almost

1479
01:37:38,079 --> 01:37:44,800
black like the color of the fabric. When I touched

1480
01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:47,920
the surface of it. At one corner of it, it

1481
01:37:48,079 --> 01:37:52,159
opened back up. Now, this material that it's made out

1482
01:37:52,159 --> 01:37:56,720
of is like it looks like stainless steel, but it's

1483
01:37:56,920 --> 01:38:00,600
very very light, the very light. And there's picture on

1484
01:38:00,680 --> 01:38:06,560
Facebook and on the website of this. I took it

1485
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:10,960
to Japan to a university through some with the helps

1486
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:14,359
of some other people, and they did some metallurgy on it,

1487
01:38:14,399 --> 01:38:17,960
and they found that it was a unique blend of

1488
01:38:19,479 --> 01:38:22,319
minerals and materials that we have here on Earth, but

1489
01:38:22,399 --> 01:38:27,119
also some that are unknown. They have no idea what

1490
01:38:27,279 --> 01:38:31,920
some of the materials are. It actually morphs itself from

1491
01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:36,880
a solid state to this pliable state where it wraps

1492
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:41,000
itself around the arm. It has three needles inside of

1493
01:38:41,039 --> 01:38:47,600
it that actually penetrate the wearer. And these needles are

1494
01:38:48,239 --> 01:38:52,600
close to a half inch in length, and they're made

1495
01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:57,439
out of gold. And at the end of each the

1496
01:38:57,479 --> 01:39:03,119
base of each gold needle, there is a round sphere

1497
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:11,479
of almost pure emerald, almost like a like you like

1498
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:17,039
a conductor, like a like an insulator. Okay, And all

1499
01:39:17,079 --> 01:39:22,199
we can figure out is that this is a biological

1500
01:39:22,880 --> 01:39:29,840
connection between the wearer and this cuff, this device, which

1501
01:39:30,039 --> 01:39:37,800
is possibly a communicator, possibly a activator of some kind,

1502
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:45,359
or making the statement. Maybe it's calling for help, maybe

1503
01:39:45,359 --> 01:39:48,199
it's calling to be activated. We don't exactly know.

1504
01:39:48,439 --> 01:39:50,640
Speaker 4: So I have to ask the obvious question, have you

1505
01:39:50,680 --> 01:39:51,239
ever worn it?

1506
01:39:51,800 --> 01:39:52,000
Speaker 1: Yes?

1507
01:39:52,079 --> 01:39:54,720
Speaker 4: I have, and what did you experience?

1508
01:39:55,279 --> 01:39:55,840
Speaker 7: If anything?

1509
01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:04,159
Speaker 1: Well, I put it on one day. I don't know why.

1510
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:07,439
I don't have any idea why I actually did it.

1511
01:40:08,439 --> 01:40:14,560
But it immediately morphed around my arm, around my left arm,

1512
01:40:14,680 --> 01:40:18,880
my left wrist. It's very painful when the needles stick

1513
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:23,399
into your nerves, into your arm, but then it immediately

1514
01:40:23,479 --> 01:40:28,920
turns cold, like frozen, within a couple of seconds, and

1515
01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:33,239
the pain subsides. But then there is a vibration that

1516
01:40:33,359 --> 01:40:36,640
starts in the center of your chest, almost like a

1517
01:40:36,840 --> 01:40:42,560
rhythmic pounding that gets stronger and stronger, only similar to

1518
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:48,239
the thrombosis of a heart attack, that starts emulating from

1519
01:40:48,279 --> 01:40:51,920
the middle of your chest to your extremities everywhere in

1520
01:40:51,960 --> 01:40:56,399
your body. You feel this pounding and pounding, and it's painful.

1521
01:40:57,119 --> 01:41:01,960
It's not gentle. It gets severe, and then my sight

1522
01:41:02,159 --> 01:41:06,720
starts to become dim, almost like tunnel vision, but not

1523
01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:11,279
completely black, and then all of a sudden it's bright

1524
01:41:11,399 --> 01:41:17,319
white again, and I'm standing in an egg shaped room

1525
01:41:18,239 --> 01:41:23,640
that's about forty feet high and about twenty five feet wide,

1526
01:41:23,760 --> 01:41:28,039
and standing over the top of me from the side

1527
01:41:28,239 --> 01:41:34,000
of this egg shaped room is this column of energy

1528
01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:42,239
that is oscillating in gold and yellows and oranges and

1529
01:41:42,359 --> 01:41:46,279
has a sense of presence, has a sense of intelligence,

1530
01:41:46,720 --> 01:41:50,760
almost like it's covered in a golden robe. And in

1531
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:55,560
that second, all I could feel was like I was

1532
01:41:55,600 --> 01:41:59,560
in the presence of an angel. I didn't want to

1533
01:41:59,600 --> 01:42:03,239
go any where. I didn't want to I didn't want

1534
01:42:03,279 --> 01:42:06,520
to leave that space. It was like, that's where I

1535
01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:07,159
want to be.

1536
01:42:09,039 --> 01:42:14,079
Speaker 4: Do you feel that this was a physical experience, like

1537
01:42:14,159 --> 01:42:16,800
you were physically transported or do you think it was

1538
01:42:16,880 --> 01:42:21,560
more of something that you can likento like a remote

1539
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:24,159
view or asshal projection type of experience.

1540
01:42:24,560 --> 01:42:28,439
Speaker 1: Well, I know it was physical because it's happened several times,

1541
01:42:29,560 --> 01:42:34,760
and I've been able to test whether or not it's

1542
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:41,039
physical in several different ways, but one of them, even

1543
01:42:41,079 --> 01:42:44,119
to the point where I could see there was there

1544
01:42:44,199 --> 01:42:48,640
was grass and some dirt that had come off the

1545
01:42:48,680 --> 01:42:51,159
soles of my shoe that were on the floor of

1546
01:42:51,199 --> 01:42:52,000
this white room.

1547
01:42:54,239 --> 01:42:59,279
Speaker 4: So you are being physically transported to another place for

1548
01:42:59,439 --> 01:43:00,199
lack of a better.

1549
01:43:00,720 --> 01:43:05,680
Speaker 1: Or another existence. Now, a lot of people have speculated,

1550
01:43:05,840 --> 01:43:11,520
people who are really knowledgeable, that this device is probably

1551
01:43:12,439 --> 01:43:20,279
a multi dimensional exchanger or transporter, that it is actually

1552
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:24,079
using dimension to shift the reality.

1553
01:43:25,279 --> 01:43:28,439
Speaker 4: And I can lean towards that theory myself. Over the

1554
01:43:28,520 --> 01:43:32,199
last few years with my research, it just seems that,

1555
01:43:32,640 --> 01:43:36,479
you know, a lot of UFO researchers talk about, you know,

1556
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:40,359
the extraterrestrials coming from another planet somewhere in the galaxy,

1557
01:43:41,039 --> 01:43:43,680
and yet there seems to be more and more evidence

1558
01:43:43,720 --> 01:43:48,159
that suggests that at least a portion of these beings

1559
01:43:48,239 --> 01:43:51,600
that are visiting here are not coming from so far away.

1560
01:43:51,680 --> 01:43:55,119
They could be coming like from arm's length away, but

1561
01:43:55,239 --> 01:43:57,479
from a different dimension of reality.

1562
01:43:58,359 --> 01:44:02,800
Speaker 1: Well, during the last ten years, in traveling all over

1563
01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:05,680
the world, I've been to fifty three countries. I've talked

1564
01:44:05,720 --> 01:44:11,199
to millions of people publicly, personally, on the radio and TV,

1565
01:44:12,560 --> 01:44:15,439
you know, all kinds of different things. And I was

1566
01:44:17,039 --> 01:44:20,000
I've met a lot of very interesting people. And in

1567
01:44:20,000 --> 01:44:24,119
two thousand and five I met a bunch of cosmonauts

1568
01:44:24,119 --> 01:44:29,399
from Russia, people who are active cosmonauts, people who have

1569
01:44:29,479 --> 01:44:34,640
been to the International Space Station. Marina Popovich I met

1570
01:44:35,119 --> 01:44:40,079
talked with for days in Peru, and about a year

1571
01:44:40,159 --> 01:44:45,399
later they invited me to Moscow because I became very

1572
01:44:45,399 --> 01:44:49,920
good friends with them, and they showed me some things

1573
01:44:50,960 --> 01:44:55,359
and asked me if I would be interested in helping

1574
01:44:55,399 --> 01:45:00,319
them with the project that they have been working looking on.

1575
01:45:01,680 --> 01:45:07,680
And the project they're working on is interstellar communication directly

1576
01:45:07,800 --> 01:45:15,720
aimed at extraterrestrial and extra dimensional races. They have made

1577
01:45:15,760 --> 01:45:22,279
great strives, they have made great achievements, and I have

1578
01:45:22,399 --> 01:45:26,279
become a consultant for this group by what I've learned

1579
01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:30,640
and also by what I've learned from them. They believe

1580
01:45:30,880 --> 01:45:35,520
that we are being visited by probably two dozen different

1581
01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:44,079
races from inter dimensional places, and that some of them,

1582
01:45:44,199 --> 01:45:47,439
and this is where you need to really extend yourself,

1583
01:45:48,199 --> 01:45:53,159
some of them are from our future, are far far,

1584
01:45:53,359 --> 01:46:02,239
far vast future, and that maybe they are us in reality.

1585
01:46:03,439 --> 01:46:06,800
Speaker 6: Yes, we've certainly heard that theory advanced before.

1586
01:46:07,399 --> 01:46:10,800
Speaker 1: So they're not they're not coming back to save us

1587
01:46:10,920 --> 01:46:14,840
from ourselves. They're not coming back to save the Earth

1588
01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:21,720
like ecologists wish they would. Probably what they're doing is

1589
01:46:21,760 --> 01:46:27,920
their inner their Their whole concept is to preserve life,

1590
01:46:29,079 --> 01:46:34,800
all life, because life in itself is a very precious thing.

1591
01:46:34,960 --> 01:46:38,960
It's a it's a spiritual precious thing. Not spiritual as

1592
01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:45,960
in organized religion, but spiritual as in there's an energy

1593
01:46:46,359 --> 01:46:52,000
within ourselves, within life that is very precious to them,

1594
01:46:52,439 --> 01:46:55,880
and that's what they want to preserve. No matter which

1595
01:46:55,920 --> 01:46:59,760
way it happens to evolve. They're not going to stop

1596
01:46:59,800 --> 01:47:05,359
a from you know, ending ourselves, you know. But what

1597
01:47:05,399 --> 01:47:08,720
they're what they've tried to do over the centuries, is

1598
01:47:08,880 --> 01:47:14,359
teach us things, and we have denied their teaching over

1599
01:47:14,680 --> 01:47:19,880
and over and over again. They have sent messengers to us,

1600
01:47:20,000 --> 01:47:24,399
they have sent writings to us, they have sent artifacts

1601
01:47:24,560 --> 01:47:29,039
to us to give us a leg up. Sometimes we've

1602
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:32,880
cracked the surface and taken advantage of some of those

1603
01:47:33,479 --> 01:47:37,560
little evolutionary steps, but most of the time we don't.

1604
01:47:37,680 --> 01:47:42,399
We're in our own way most of the time, and

1605
01:47:42,439 --> 01:47:43,520
that's bad.

1606
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:47,920
Speaker 6: Well, I'd like to go back, if I may again,

1607
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:51,479
and I not to sure change that concept, because I

1608
01:47:51,520 --> 01:47:54,680
think obviously that's the big picture. But I would like

1609
01:47:54,760 --> 01:47:58,199
to follow up on two things. What in the intervening

1610
01:47:58,319 --> 01:48:01,279
time has been your experience with the Men in Black?

1611
01:48:01,319 --> 01:48:04,000
Have they stopped bothering you. Are they still following you?

1612
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:12,479
Speaker 1: Well, there's been. What's interesting is statistically, and I'm big

1613
01:48:12,520 --> 01:48:18,079
on statistics, about ninety seven percent of the people that

1614
01:48:18,119 --> 01:48:23,960
I've spoken to are open minded, their believers. They can

1615
01:48:24,079 --> 01:48:27,960
conceive of what's happened to me, or they even factually

1616
01:48:28,039 --> 01:48:33,119
know it because of their own experiences. Three percent are

1617
01:48:33,399 --> 01:48:40,319
non believers. They're haters, and they're very vicious. About one

1618
01:48:40,399 --> 01:48:44,039
percent that's very vicious. There is a group, and I

1619
01:48:44,039 --> 01:48:50,640
would say they're organized like a military group to basically

1620
01:48:52,239 --> 01:49:00,119
attack and harass and discredit people who have real experiences

1621
01:49:00,119 --> 01:49:03,800
that are really solid. Okay. And what's interesting is they

1622
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:08,319
don't attack the case. They attack the person. They harass you,

1623
01:49:08,359 --> 01:49:12,680
they threaten you. I've been shot twice, I've been beaten up,

1624
01:49:13,960 --> 01:49:20,279
my back was broke numerous things over the last eighteen years.

1625
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:22,760
I don't know why I'm even alive.

1626
01:49:24,800 --> 01:49:27,680
Speaker 6: And yes, and I certainly you know and doing a

1627
01:49:27,800 --> 01:49:30,960
research and familiar with your story. Obviously there's there's been

1628
01:49:30,960 --> 01:49:33,000
the critics, but you know, I think that you have

1629
01:49:33,600 --> 01:49:36,239
and as I'm sure your art would agree with this,

1630
01:49:37,319 --> 01:49:43,039
a lot more physical evidence than virtually any you know,

1631
01:49:43,079 --> 01:49:46,760
with a few exceptions, in any other cases, I think

1632
01:49:46,840 --> 01:49:50,800
that that evidence has to stand to back you up

1633
01:49:50,880 --> 01:49:53,479
very strongly. Let me ask you something that perhaps you

1634
01:49:53,600 --> 01:49:57,399
have been asked before, but in my many years of

1635
01:49:57,439 --> 01:50:00,880
research since I started back in the seventies, uh, quite

1636
01:50:00,880 --> 01:50:05,520
by accident in Roswell, I had the opportunity about a

1637
01:50:05,560 --> 01:50:09,920
year ago to have have lunch with Jim Peniston, And

1638
01:50:10,119 --> 01:50:12,439
if you reviewed the case at Rendalshom, which I'm sure

1639
01:50:12,479 --> 01:50:17,000
you're familiar with, the craft that they witnessed up close

1640
01:50:17,680 --> 01:50:22,880
in the Rendalsham forest in England seems strikingly similar to

1641
01:50:23,199 --> 01:50:26,199
the craft that you know, that you described, you that

1642
01:50:26,319 --> 01:50:32,800
you encountered. What have you have you? Has anybody uh

1643
01:50:33,520 --> 01:50:35,760
you know presented that kind of a concept with you,

1644
01:50:35,840 --> 01:50:38,199
because I think that the shape of the craft, although

1645
01:50:38,239 --> 01:50:41,680
yours seemed to be smaller, uh, but I think that

1646
01:50:42,239 --> 01:50:46,239
there's a striking similarity between those two craft.

1647
01:50:46,359 --> 01:50:49,439
Speaker 1: Have you been approached a year ago in June? I

1648
01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:54,399
was actually in August, I was in Rendalshom and I

1649
01:50:54,600 --> 01:50:58,359
spent some hours with the people there and went through

1650
01:50:58,399 --> 01:51:03,119
the forest and talked at great length about this. I

1651
01:51:03,159 --> 01:51:06,319
think there are some minor similarities, but I think when

1652
01:51:06,399 --> 01:51:09,239
you really get down to the facts, it's quite different.

1653
01:51:09,720 --> 01:51:09,920
Speaker 3: OK.

1654
01:51:10,800 --> 01:51:14,399
Speaker 1: But I will say that in talking with you know,

1655
01:51:14,479 --> 01:51:19,640
the public for eighteen years about this, I've had fifty

1656
01:51:19,720 --> 01:51:23,920
or sixty people draw exactly what I saw in the

1657
01:51:24,000 --> 01:51:27,920
forest before they'd ever seen any pictures of mine.

1658
01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:28,800
Speaker 3: Wow.

1659
01:51:28,880 --> 01:51:32,159
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of other people who have seen these.

1660
01:51:32,560 --> 01:51:36,159
And I'll just call it like a pod obelisk shape,

1661
01:51:36,880 --> 01:51:40,319
you know, this black diamond laying on its side shape,

1662
01:51:40,439 --> 01:51:45,159
Marquee diamond shape. And so it's not that it's unusual.

1663
01:51:45,319 --> 01:51:49,159
In fact, it's much more prevalent than one would expect.

1664
01:51:49,840 --> 01:51:53,640
But it's ongoing. This is an ongoing situation. This is

1665
01:51:53,680 --> 01:51:58,960
something that again I never would have believed, you know,

1666
01:51:59,359 --> 01:52:02,800
eighteen years ago, but I certainly believe it now. And

1667
01:52:02,840 --> 01:52:05,680
I know that the reality that we live in is

1668
01:52:07,319 --> 01:52:12,039
not just the physical reality, but it's also a spiritual

1669
01:52:12,079 --> 01:52:17,279
reality that blends with the physical. That time and dimension

1670
01:52:18,199 --> 01:52:24,640
and space are ebbing and flowing ribbons within the universes,

1671
01:52:25,479 --> 01:52:28,960
and that we cross over a lot of times partially

1672
01:52:29,000 --> 01:52:36,880
by natural circumstances, and maybe these intelligent beings have learned

1673
01:52:37,720 --> 01:52:43,920
to calculate how to use it to their own ability,

1674
01:52:44,000 --> 01:52:45,000
their own credit.

1675
01:52:45,520 --> 01:52:47,680
Speaker 6: Well, we're coming up to about less than five minutes

1676
01:52:48,359 --> 01:52:50,439
left in the show, and we'd to I'd like to

1677
01:52:50,479 --> 01:52:52,560
say now on behalf of Marke and we appreciate you

1678
01:52:52,600 --> 01:52:55,600
coming in, but we also there's a lot more than

1679
01:52:55,720 --> 01:52:59,439
needs to be said and discussed. Clearly, we'd like to

1680
01:52:59,640 --> 01:53:01,560
give you an offer to come back. We'd love to

1681
01:53:01,560 --> 01:53:04,439
have you back and spend a couple more hours discussing

1682
01:53:04,479 --> 01:53:08,399
this real Briefly, I had the opportunity about six months

1683
01:53:08,399 --> 01:53:10,560
ago to meet with him again, and I had worked

1684
01:53:10,560 --> 01:53:12,800
about a year ago down in Austin with himI Mussan.

1685
01:53:13,119 --> 01:53:16,960
Are you currently in contact with himI and what is

1686
01:53:17,000 --> 01:53:21,039
your going forward? As a general question, what's next for you?

1687
01:53:21,119 --> 01:53:23,760
Are you willing to continue this in a public fashion

1688
01:53:23,880 --> 01:53:26,359
or well because of what you.

1689
01:53:27,239 --> 01:53:30,800
Speaker 1: Ten years ago, when I made the choice to when

1690
01:53:30,840 --> 01:53:35,760
I was invited to join this communications group as a consultant,

1691
01:53:36,680 --> 01:53:40,439
I had pretty much decided to stop being part of

1692
01:53:40,479 --> 01:53:46,760
the circus of UFO uithology because I didn't have the

1693
01:53:46,800 --> 01:53:49,760
feeling that there were a lot of people taking it seriously.

1694
01:53:50,680 --> 01:53:54,760
And I made a choice. I made an active choice

1695
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:59,319
to provide my information when I had the ability, like

1696
01:53:59,359 --> 01:54:03,279
on your show, to people who are genuinely interested and

1697
01:54:03,399 --> 01:54:06,159
open minded enough to listen. I have no problem and

1698
01:54:06,199 --> 01:54:09,319
I would love to come back on your show. As

1699
01:54:09,359 --> 01:54:13,600
far as you know, preaching about this, I never did that.

1700
01:54:14,000 --> 01:54:18,399
I never tried to convince anybody whether you know what

1701
01:54:19,000 --> 01:54:21,119
happened to me is real or not, that's up to

1702
01:54:21,159 --> 01:54:25,399
you to decide. If it hadn't happened to me personally,

1703
01:54:25,800 --> 01:54:30,079
I wouldn't believe it either, And so my way of

1704
01:54:30,119 --> 01:54:33,199
thinking is, look, I'm just presenting what's happened to me.

1705
01:54:34,439 --> 01:54:41,319
It's fascinating, it's highly unusual, but it's also happening to many,

1706
01:54:41,399 --> 01:54:44,439
many other people. I get one hundred emails a week

1707
01:54:44,920 --> 01:54:48,760
by people that are new Contact Ease from all over

1708
01:54:48,800 --> 01:54:52,880
the world who only want to ask for help and

1709
01:54:53,000 --> 01:54:59,000
tell me, Jonathan, keep speaking for us, keep talking for us.

1710
01:55:00,039 --> 01:55:03,399
That's probably one of the only reasons that I do.

1711
01:55:04,399 --> 01:55:08,279
I am writing another book about all that's happened since

1712
01:55:08,359 --> 01:55:12,399
those first nine days. My original book is still available

1713
01:55:12,640 --> 01:55:16,880
through Amazon. But there's a lot to be told, there's

1714
01:55:16,920 --> 01:55:20,920
a lot more to know. And again, I appreciate you

1715
01:55:20,960 --> 01:55:25,039
guys having me and taking the time and the courtesy

1716
01:55:25,119 --> 01:55:30,000
to let me speak, and I would enjoy doing it. Again.

1717
01:55:30,439 --> 01:55:33,520
Speaker 4: Well, we also want to point out that you will

1718
01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:36,760
be back on the Dark Matter Radio Network in the

1719
01:55:36,760 --> 01:55:40,239
next few months. I believe you were scheduled to appear

1720
01:55:40,279 --> 01:55:40,880
back with Art.

1721
01:55:41,560 --> 01:55:45,399
Speaker 1: Yes, Art has had invited me to go back on

1722
01:55:45,520 --> 01:55:48,399
when he comes back on, and we'll see how that

1723
01:55:48,479 --> 01:55:52,159
all works out. But I look forward to that. Art

1724
01:55:52,199 --> 01:55:55,640
was the original guy who broke this story, and then

1725
01:55:55,760 --> 01:55:59,319
Heimi Massan took it from there and took it into television,

1726
01:56:00,039 --> 01:56:03,640
and then that all exploded and it became a world thing.

1727
01:56:04,439 --> 01:56:08,319
So all I can say is it's been a wild ride.

1728
01:56:08,439 --> 01:56:13,119
I'm glad to be alive. There's a lot of people

1729
01:56:13,359 --> 01:56:17,399
who have helped me along the way who I really appreciate,

1730
01:56:18,199 --> 01:56:21,199
and I thank God every day for this life and

1731
01:56:21,239 --> 01:56:24,840
for the ability to maybe help others who have been

1732
01:56:24,920 --> 01:56:26,479
through something like I have.

1733
01:56:27,119 --> 01:56:29,960
Speaker 6: Well, thank you again for your time, and keep up

1734
01:56:30,000 --> 01:56:33,000
the good work as best you can. And we know

1735
01:56:33,039 --> 01:56:35,000
our job is to get that information out there and

1736
01:56:35,039 --> 01:56:37,520
also to let the listeners decide on their own. But

1737
01:56:37,760 --> 01:56:40,199
certainly the evidence that you have acquired as well as

1738
01:56:40,199 --> 01:56:43,680
your story, speaks quite strongly for the veracity of what

1739
01:56:43,720 --> 01:56:46,039
you're saying, and we would like to have you back

1740
01:56:46,039 --> 01:56:48,119
and thank you for your time. We greatly appreciate it.

1741
01:56:48,319 --> 01:56:50,079
Speaker 1: Thank you both, and God bless you.

1742
01:56:50,239 --> 01:56:53,720
Speaker 4: Oh, thank you Jonathan your listener. Sure and well, thank

1743
01:56:53,720 --> 01:56:57,600
you everyone for listening to another edition of Unknown Origins Radio.

1744
01:56:58,159 --> 01:57:01,560
Tune in every Thursday night for eight to ten pm

1745
01:57:01,560 --> 01:57:05,319
Eastern Standard Time here on the Dark Matter Radio Network,

1746
01:57:05,359 --> 01:57:06,920
and we'll catch you all next week.

1747
01:57:06,960 --> 01:57:09,680
Speaker 6: Have a great one, Thanks Keith, have a great one.

1748
01:57:09,720 --> 01:57:11,159
Be safe, folks, See you next week.