Speaker 1: This is Andrew Dibshago and you're listening to Unknown Origins Radio.
Speaker 2: We live in a world filled with the unknown.
Speaker 3: You can't handle the truth. I'm glad as hell.
Speaker 4: I'm we will not go quietly into the night.
Speaker 5: We will not vanish.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Unbound Origins.
Speaker 4: Radio, and good evening everybody. Welcome to another edition of
Unknown Origins Radio here on the Dark Matter Radio Network.
I'm your host, Mark Johnson, and joining me as our
co host, mister Bruce Pearson. How are you doing tonight, Bruce?
Speaker 6: Excellent? Mark, how are you?
Speaker 1: Ah?
Speaker 4: You sound so good.
Speaker 6: Well, let's don't push your luck. Let's hope it remains
that way.
Speaker 4: Yes, I know, we know how how Skype and our
internet connections love to tease us at times. But well,
we're looking forward. We've got a great show tonight. We
have a guest that I've literally been you know, hounding
and stalking for the last several months trying to get
on the show, and I think he finally agreed just
to shut me up. So we'll be introducing him in
just a few minutes. In the meantime, Bruce, how have
you been. How's your week been?
Speaker 6: It's been a little hectic been in the studio shooting
on other network shows, and as you will know, it's
pushing it a little close to get back and back
home here at the studio in time, but we cut
it right down the wire, probably given Keith a little
bit of gray here. But it's been busy, so that's good.
Getting ready to go out to the National Association of
Broadcasters convention in Las Vegas in a couple of weeks.
And by the way, we've got a pretty interesting event
coming up just before we heat out to Las Vegas,
and that's the New Jersey UFO conference is coming up
again here in the beginning of April, so we should
probably give that a quick chat. What have you got
on your agenda that you want to talk about before
we get to our tonight's guest on board.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad you brought up the New Jersey UFO Council.
I'm once again I won't be able to make it.
I will be in Disney World, yes, I know, life
is rough. Yeah, the family vacation, so we'll be in
Disney World that week. Yeah, So unfortunately I'm going to
miss another one. Poor Dave Stennett, and I keep promising
him I'm going to come and then I keep missing him,
but hopefully I can catch the next one in the fall,
because you know, it's so close and it's a great
time to go there. If anybody in the area, if
you've never been to one of these events, there are
a great events. A lot of good speakers come in
and talk. Dave puts on a class act show.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's the eleventh. If anybody's in the mid Atlantic region,
is well worth a trip. It's a one day event,
April eleventh. It's a full day of activities. You get
to meet and greet the people up close and personal
that there are speakers. Of course, Travis Walton's going to
be there from Fire in the Sky. Dave Rowntree, who
is a good friend of our show, and we're working
together on, you know, expanding the concept of data logging
as a way to push this the Investigation of the
Unknown forward. Katherine Dolan All right, excuse me, Karen Dolan
is going to be there. Shannon Taggart. Go to the
NJUFOC dot com or get a hold of us here
at Unknown Origins Radio will help you get in touch
with the right people and get tickets. But I can
assure you that for the money, you can't beat this
one day event. So I say that because we'll be
down there taping it. We might be streaming this time,
but in any event, get down there and meet the
people and now you go out to dinner with the
speakers and so on. So it's a great day. I
really recommend it to anybody. It's interested.
Speaker 4: Fantastic And then of course coming up in June and
I have to keep plugging this one, we have Phenomenology
one O seven. This is the seventh year the event
has been featured, and you know, every year it's been
in Gettysburg. This year they're just going to be outside
of Gettysburg in a new venue in York, Pennsylvania, and
that is going to be June eighteenth through the twenty first.
And once again, if you've never been to Phenomenology, it
is one of the largest paranormal conferences on the East Coast,
held every year by Dana wingerd from the Northeastern Paranormal Investigations,
and they really get a great lineup of people. I mean,
this year we have they're focusing on extreme haunting cases,
so you have Bill Bean will be there, John Zapfis,
Andrea Parone, Chip Coffee, our good friend Eric Altman, Brian
Kanno from Scared Bob, Christopher will be there, and so
many more people Nicoletti, Dustin Perry from Ghost Hunters, and
even Christopher Quarantino from the also known as Christopher Lutz
from the Amityville Whore, one of the original Amityville Children.
It's really a great event. They have many speakers. The
big vendor room is always a blast. You get to
go in and meet everybody, all the paranormal people, and
they have investigations and things to do for the kids,
and they have the parties in the bar and the
nights in the weekend, so it's a really great time.
So for tickets, you can go to Phenom Events. That's
Phenom with pH phenom events dot com and you can
give more information hotel lodging information and tickets. So we
would hope to see you there. And I think it's
time for us to get right into the meat of
the show tonight.
Speaker 6: What do you think, Well, yes, we have a very
unique guest tonight. We appreciate the fact that he's agreed
to come on with us. I found out about our
guest listening to his original radio day in interviews with
Art Bell, with Art of course having him on a
number of years ago when the story broke, and Art
I had him on several times to move the story forward.
So we really appreciate him taking the time and being
willing to come back on the air with us. So
I'll let you do the former in introduction, but it
should be a very interesting show for our listeners tonight.
Speaker 4: Well, we'll get right into it. We'll introduce doctor Jonathan
Reid as our guest tonight. Doctor Reid has had a
very fascinating story to tell as he's as Bruce mentioned,
he's told an on Art show a number of times,
and I'm very pleased that he has come on the
show to talk with us. And and we'll go a
little bit deeper tonight too, deeper into what's been happening
since the events as well. So doctor Reed, please welcome
to the program. How are you tonight?
Speaker 1: Very good, Mark, thank you for having me.
Speaker 4: Well, thank you for coming on the show. And I
just also want to mention that you are also the
author of your book about your encounters, Link and Extraterrestrial Odyssey,
The True Story of Alien Contact and you know, you
wrote this book quite a few years ago, back in
two thousand, I believe.
Speaker 1: Yes, it was published in two thousand, and the actual
event happened in October fifteenth of nineteen ninety six in
Washington State.
Speaker 4: Now, we had talked before the show about what we
wanted to talk about, you know, for the show tonight.
I know everyone who knows your case is fascinated by it,
and you know, I would like to go into what
you experience those days. And then, of course, being we
have two hours here to go in to what's been
happening since you wrote the book, the and the other
experiences that you've had. So could you just start off
for our audience, tell our listeners a little bit about
yourself and what happened that led up to these events.
Speaker 1: Sure, this thought, like I said, it all happened back
in nineteen ninety six when I was a clinical psychologist
developmental psychiatrics child development for the University Washington Medical Center.
And what happened was I had a Golden Retriever, a
seven year old great great dog that used to go
with me everywhere, and I used to take her for
walks by the water and into the forest, and one
of these. One of the days, nice beautiful October afternoon,
I decided to play hooky and take my dog basically
sixty miles east of Seattle, which is near the snow
call Me Pass Mountain Range Mountain area, and that's of
logging roads and good places to walk, and we'd done
this many times, so what had happened is basically I
parked my car off of one of these logging roads
that I had done many times before, and we just
started walking and down the trails and through the woods.
And it's a beautiful, pristine national forest, you know, not
like in the city. This is definitely the mountains. And
we walked and we saw squirrels and raccoons and all
kinds of stuff. And of course you can let your
dog run in this kind of area where you don't
have to have them on a leash, and they can
do all kinds of fun dog stuff. And my dog
was pretty well obedient. She would come when I called her,
and then she'd take off running through the woods, and
nothing unusual. But after we'd been walking for about an hour,
she took off out of sight and I heard her barking,
you know, which was again nothing unusual, but all of
a sudden, her barking tone changed and it sounded a
little bit more aggressive than normal. And you know, sometimes
dogs will find, like I say, a squirrel or something
and go scampering after it. Well, this continued, This barking continued,
and it started to sound more aggressive and at times
even like she was being pursued. And so I called
her several times, yelled out loud her name, Susie, you know,
and normally she would come back, but this time she didn't,
and the barking continued, and it was going farther away.
So I quickly took off my backpack. I had a
day pack with me and held it in my hand
and grabbed a branch in the other in case I
had to untangle her from some kind of critter. This
mountain area has, like I say, raccoons, and we'd seen
a deer earlier in the day, and even bear are
in this area, so I wasn't sure what she was
involved with, but I considered that I better have something to,
you know, kind of untangle her when I found her,
because I could hear this barking changed, and so I
ran up ahead as far as I could, getting closer
to her. Barking sound, and I could hear that she
was very close in the underbrush, but I couldn't see her.
And what I did was I kind of ran up
and jumped kind of down through into a little thicket,
and I found myself face to face with this vibrating
thing that had a hold of my dog, or my
dog had a hold of it, I wasn't sure at
the second. And what I saw was a small, blurred, vibrating,
vibrating like a paint shaker thing holding my dog by
what looked like the mouth or the neck, vibrating even
her just so I couldn't even barely see the outline
of her, but it looked like there was some kind of,
you know, massive distress going on, and she was yelping.
And this all happened within seconds, and as I looked
at it, it stopped vibrating for a second, glared at me,
and then tore my dog's head in half and splitting
her back and her body apart, blood, everything falling to
the ground in front of me. And all I could
think of was stop and rage and to put an
end to this. And the branch that I had picked
up used as a weapon, I hit it as hard
as I could, hoping to kill it, and it fell
to the ground as I struck its head.
Speaker 4: You know, And I've read that the same account in
your book, and I've heard you tell this story on
a number of occasions. And what strikes me about the
encounter is the fact that this being was vibrating in
such a way. It makes me wonder what if it
was using some type of cloaking technology and was invisible,
but the dog was able to sense it. Maybe you
would have walked by it and not even known it
was there. But because she attacked it, and you said
both her and the dog, the her and the creature
were vibrating together.
Speaker 1: Maybe During the last eighteen years of having to talk
about this with many, many different people who are probably
much more knowledligible in this area than I am, we've
come to a conclusion that it was probably trying to
escape and or shift dimension, that it was actually trying
to disappear, and the possibility that my dog just happened
to get to it at the right time. Otherwise I
would have never seen it, it would have never been there.
Most likely it's a speculation, but it's something that a
lot of people have put a lot of thought into
other people have had creatures vibrate and then disappear, So
this is where this information is coming from.
Speaker 6: If I may jump in here, did you sense, yes,
did you sense anything non auditorily? Did you sense any
communication of any type from this this being?
Speaker 1: Well, what I sensed was right before I jumped down
into this little thicket in front of it, I felt
a pain go through my head, like a massive migraine.
And then once I struck it, it stopped. Everything kind
of stopped, and as my dog fell to the ground,
it just kind of dissolved into herself into kind of
a white ash. And the body of this little creature
lay on the ground with a with a hole in
its head from where I had struck it.
Speaker 6: There was no sign of any liquid or any blood
of yell.
Speaker 1: It was blood all over from it and from my dog.
Speaker 6: And that the flow of that ceased, as it would
be with a human body or a mammal or at
some point or did it continue to lose blood or
was there any.
Speaker 1: Well, there was there was a substantial amount of blood
on the back of its head, and there are pictures
of this. Right it didn't you know, it wasn't like
it had cut an artery where it was pumping and flowing.
But there a head wound has a tendency to seep
a lot of blood. It's very vascular, even in humans.
So all I can assume at that moment was that
I killed it, and I had hoped I did because
it had killed my dog and I figured I was next.
And again, this was all within you know, four or
five seconds of landing on the ground and just just reacting.
Speaker 4: How far did you have to advance before you hit
the creature?
Speaker 1: About one step forward about you know, one we'll say,
say a half a meter.
Speaker 4: It was safe, so you were very close when you
came upon it.
Speaker 1: Yes, And what I hit it with was like a
baseball bat.
Speaker 6: Oh, that would do it. Certainly, there's enough power behind
a swing with a baseball bat to cause some serious damage.
Speaker 1: For broke its skull open, and there was actually bone
and tissue.
Speaker 6: You know, is there is there a current website where
the listeners could uh just shoot over to your website
and is there are there any pictures available that they
could look at now as we speak.
Speaker 1: There either up and down Facebook or also on a
website that some people put up which is an older website,
and that website is O D I S E A
L I n K. And that's Odyssey link dot com.
And that's actually.
Speaker 6: Now could you discuss there was a craft associated with
this being? Also?
Speaker 1: Well, right after I hit this thing, it fell to
the ground, and so do I with a crippling sickness,
almost a paralyzing sickness. I couldn't barely move, I couldn't
stand up. I lost control of all my bowels and
my bladder, and I was hyperventilating at the time, and
I figured I was probably going into shock, but I
didn't know, but it felt like something was compressing my chest.
So something happened. The second this thing hit the ground
to where I felt it. My body was feeling something
pushing on me, penetrating my body. So I literally crawled
on my hands and knees for what seemed like eternity
until I heard a sound. I heard a sound that
was like a low, ebbing vibrational tone, really a low tone,
and I thought, well, maybe it's another hiker. Maybe they
have a radio or some kind of boombox or something.
And I looked around and I couldn't see anybody, and
then I fell back down to the ground and I'd
crawl around and I'd hear this sound and it was
it was almost scratching at my mind. And again I
felt like somebody else was there, but there wasn't anybody there.
And as I kind of pushed my way around ten
to twenty feet from this body, I stood up and
I could see what looked like kind of a mirage
through the underbrush. There was a lot of underbrush in
this area was a pretty dense tree canopy, so it
was kind of a dark, woodsy area. But nevertheless, I
could see this what looked like a mirage where the
light bends a little bit, and there was something there,
something that didn't look like a tree or underbrush, something black,
and so I kind of made my way toward it, thinking,
I don't know, maybe it's a camper. And I was
grabbing at anything I could just to control my breathing
and to not pass out from exhaustion. And I pushed
through the brush and I actually fell against kind of
a hard surface, and as I did, it was freezing cold,
and it actually kind of burned my hand like dry
ice would burn your hand. As I pulled away from it,
and it was a black diamond shaped object that I
ended up calling in the book we wrote the obelisk.
It was approximately ten feet ten to twelve feet long,
three feet high and about two and a half feet wide,
cut like a diamond, no seams, no windows, no landing gear,
and it was about three feet off the ground, which
defied everything I could imagine, but nevertheless, that's what it was.
And as I touched it, it was making this vibrational tone,
this low ebbing sound, and as I touched it, the
tone changed and it became more pleasant sounding, more welcoming.
And again I fell to the ground, sick, throwing up,
unable to get up, unknowing what I had come involved with.
I mean, everything I was looking at defied everything I
believed in. I was never into science fiction. I was
not into UFOs or aliens. I mean I was a doctor,
a serious doctor, and if I didn't see it, smell it,
and know about it, I wouldn't believe it. So this
was not my forte, this was not my area of study.
And none of this made any sense. This whole whole
arena at this point made no sense to my way
of life and understanding the sound of the air had
even changed that The feeling of the ground was was
sticky and almost like when I'd go to move, it
was like moving through water, but there was no water.
There was just this silence and thickness in the air
that just, you know, was totally out of my paradigm.
Speaker 6: Did you sense any odor or either around the being
around this craft if you will, during this time.
Speaker 1: The whole area. The second I hid it, this creature
and it fell to the ground, everything changed. The density
of the air changed, the smell of the air. It
smelled musty and old. The creature itself had a smell
like rotting fruit. So as I moved away from that,
you know, that was more pleasant to be away from it.
The craft or whatever you want to call this black
floating object had no smell, but it was freezing cold,
and like I said, there was a tone or even
in a presence of intelligence to it that I couldn't
I couldn't define, I couldn't fathom, but nevertheless, it was there,
It was happening, and I just felt like I was
either going to go into complete shock or even die
because of the way my body was reacting to everything.
So the only thing I could think I was survive
and I thought, Okay, I've got to rest, I've got
to calm down. I've got to quit hyperventilating. And I
knew that in my pack right before I had crossed
this little ridge and kind of jumped in front of
my dog. I had set my pack down and my
pack had water in it, and I thought, I've got
to get some water. I've just got to drink water.
I've got to calm down. I had been throwing up
for about an hour or so. I was definitely dehydrated.
So I went and tried to find my pack and
go back up about twenty five feet from where this
object was, and I got my pack and I start
started looking for the water, and I pulled out my
camera and took all my camera and other things that
I had in my pack out to find the water.
So I found the water. I drank the water, and
I leaned against a tree and I kept thinking to myself,
none of this is happening, none of this can be happening,
because it just defied everything that I had ever come
to believe was possible in my life. And as I
drank the water, I realized, Okay, I've got a camera.
I've got a camera, because I took pictures, you know,
as an amateur photographer. So I thought, okay, I'll take
a picture and probably nothing will be there, because maybe
this is all an illusion in my mind, maybe I'm
suffering from some kind of grand seizure. And so my
whole methodology was to pick up the camera because I
was used to it felt comfortable, and I decided I'd
take a picture of what was in front of me,
which was the body of this creature, and I took pictures.
I took every bit of film I had. This was
a thirty five millimeter film camera. This is before digital photography,
so this actually produced negatives. So I just want to
make it clear that this was prior to photoshop. And
all of this came as kind of a comforting second
nature thought, not that I'm going to take big pictures
and come out with something fantastic, but more as I'm
going to take pictures and nothing's going to be there,
and I'm going to find comfort in that. So that's
what I did. I took picture after picture of the obelisk,
of the body of the area, and I took my video.
I had a video camera, and I took video of
the whole thing, and at times the video camera would
distort and I'd get angry, and you can even hear
it on the recording of the video, because I thought,
of all times for this to start acting up, is
now when I want to record something, And so I did.
I recorded it, I put it on video. I put
it on in the photographic slide film and negative film,
and I drank water and I thought, none of this
is going to be true, none of this is the reality.
And I kept talking myself out of it. I kept
trying to deny that any of this happened, that something
must have just happened to me. And I was afraid.
I was sick. I didn't know what to do. I
didn't know what to believe. I was alone, you know,
sixty miles away from from what my life was really
all about, and so I tried to survive. I tried to,
you know, minute by minute, think what can I do
just to breathe slower, just to calm down, not to
have a stroke or a heart attack. And I literally
paste my breathing so I could slow down. And I thought,
what am I going to do with this body? What
am I going to do? I've killed something and it
was small, like childlike in size, not very big, and
you know, I looked at it and I realized, it's
not a costume. It's not a mask.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: The blood, the sinew, the cranial material that had come
out of its skull was real. And as I did this,
I kept thinking, what have I done? What have I killed?
Maybe I'm in trouble. And my mind just reeled on
these many, many things, until finally I decided that I
remember I had a thermal blanket in my pack, and
that's a kind of a milar blanket that hikers and
campers use in case there's an emergency for them to
wrap themselves up to keep warm. It's a very lightweight
piece of milar, about ten by eight feet in dimension,
and so I decided I'd cover the body with that.
That was my rationale. So I spread it out and thought, well,
I'll pile rocks around it to keep the animals away
from it. Well, there were no rocks because in this
area of the mountains, it's high enough, it's almost at
the end of the tree line, and there just isn't
a lot of rocks that you can grab, and so
I kind of pushed the thermal blanket under the corner
of the creature and kind of wrapped it up like
you'd put a sleeping bag or a brea, you know,
kind of rolled it around it. I didn't want to
touch it, but I didn't want to see it either,
and I just rolled it up and thought, okay, it's
it's it's covered up now. And I thought, well, maybe
I can put it by the edge of the edge
of the path because there was a hill, kind of
a hill, and maybe I can pile some branches on
it to keep it from from animals getting it getting
to it. And as I did that, I realized it
was so light that I could literally pick it up
with one hand. I mean, it was between forty and
maybe fifty pounds at the most. And again this defied
reason to me and logic, but nevertheless there it was.
And I don't know exactly why or what my logic was,
but I thought, I've got to find a place to
hide this, to secure it. So I picked it up
in one hand. I picked up my pack and my
other stuff in the other, so I was kind of balanced,
and I just started walking back up the path to
where I had parked my car, which was about an
hour coming down to this point, I had no idea
how long it was going to take me to get back,
but it was starting to get dark.
Speaker 4: What did you think about the obelisk at this point
when you were leaving it, did you have any thought
about it?
Speaker 1: Well? I pushed on it. I climbed on the end
of it, and it wouldn't move. And fraction of an
inch not an inch. It was like it was anchored
to the.
Speaker 6: Air and it was hovering at that point. There were
no appendages or.
Speaker 1: Landing rug another big branch underneath it to try to
see if there was something underneath it, and it felt
that branch felt like it was going into water as
I went underneath the surface, and then as it would
come up the other end, it would release. Oh if
you ever put like an ore in the water. Yes, right,
So there was a density underneath it that was not
like anywhere else around it. But I couldn't move it.
It wouldn't move.
Speaker 4: In hindsight, And I know we could talk more about
this later. I want you to continue your story, But
the obelisk. Do you feel it was a craft or
do you feel it was more of a like a toolkit.
Speaker 1: Well, that's That's a question that has been asked to me,
you know, probably a million times. It wasn't, you know,
in terms of a craft, if you and I think of,
you know, a spacecraft like NASA. It wasn't large enough,
but yet there were some other oddities about it. When
I fell against it for an instant, just for a
fraction of a second, I got a flash in my
mind like I was in a big black room, really
interest with something else in that room, going uh, I'm here,
you're here, and then all of a sudden being thrown
back out like maybe I wasn't the one he was
looking for. Maybe he was looking for the little guy
that was laying on the ground thirty.
Speaker 4: Feet away, he being the obelisk itself.
Speaker 1: The was was intelligent and maybe a caretaker or toolbox
of this little guy.
Speaker 6: What about Anhu the doorway? Sorry, didn't mean to in
terrupt you, But was there any sound emanating from the
obelisk at all?
Speaker 1: Or was there there was this low, ebbing harmonic tone?
Speaker 6: Okay, right right, okay? And did that change when you
put the branch under it at all? Was there any oscillation?
Speaker 1: It change when the only time it changed is when
I first touched it, and then it became more pleasant sounding, okay,
And from then on it was the same. It never moved,
it never did anything to reach out to me, other
than I felt this weird feeling in the back of
my head, like almost a scratching migraine headache coming on.
Speaker 6: Now, you mentioned you tried to jump up on top
of it. How did you manage that with this freezing
cold problem I had.
Speaker 1: I had a long sleeve shirt, like a flannel shirt on,
and I just kind of lunged my half of my
body up onto it to try to push it right,
and it wouldn't move. I mean, it was like a
piece of granite anchored in the air. I mean it
was a density like stone, and the.
Speaker 6: Color of it was almost the onyx kind of a
color as an black, and.
Speaker 1: Had a little bit of a surface to it where
you could kind of see being beneath the surface, almost
like looking at fiberglass in resin Okay or or something
like that.
Speaker 6: And no markings, no no.
Speaker 1: Markings, no doors, no windows, no gaps, no thems, nothing.
Speaker 6: Now, if I can ask you another question, obviously, there
was a need to try to preserve this being because
of what happened to you. Did you give any thought
about your poor dog that got it self ripped the
part in this and you obviously had to make a
decision there, value judgment to either take your dog back
to the truck or take this this new found entity.
Speaker 1: I don't think you completely understood when I said, it's
my dog fell to the ground in a powdery act.
Speaker 6: No, I understand that thing.
Speaker 1: There was nothing left of her, okay.
Speaker 6: There was nothing to even gather up or no, no, okay,
all right, just like soot from your fireplace, and not
enough those if you would have, if you had a
cremation or that type of rest.
Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you at the moment, I wasn't thinking.
Speaker 6: About that, I gotcha know, And that's.
Speaker 1: More about survival and I and truth. I was afraid
what I had done. I was. I was seriously afraid
of this whole situation, not clearly logically thinking other than
you know, I didn't want to be in this place
because I felt I was so sick that I didn't
know I was going to be able to get out
of there. And when I started walking back up this path,
which like I said, took us an hour to get
to that point from my jeep. All of a sudden,
I found myself back at my jeep, like no time
had taken place, like maybe five minutes had gone by,
and all I thought was, there's my jeep. That looked good,
that looked like more reality to me. So I walked
up to the jeep, opened the back end and set
this body in there with my pack, closed the door,
and sat in the driver's seat for I don't know
how long and just numb, just breathing and hyperventilating. And
I was a mess. I mean I was a mess.
And I looked over to where my dog always sat
next to me, and she wasn't there, and I knew
something had happened. So my sense of the whole thing
was almost not wanting to think about what really had happened,
just thinking about trying to get back to something that
looked or felt familiar, because none of this felt familiar,
and there was no one around, so I was alone
in this well.
Speaker 6: I think that it might be fair to you to
put this in try to for our listeners put this
in context. You know, it's bad enough if and I
spent many years as a first responder to come and
face to face with a traumatic situation where there's been
this type of overwhelming trauma to deal with. You know,
whether it's an accident or whatever, it clearly will shake
a normal individual up. And to be fair to you,
one can only imagine, as we're all human beings, Yeah,
how completely overwhelming this situation could be. I mean, your
whole you know, your whole understanding of the world around
you is flipped on its ear instantaneously. And you know,
accepting as a journalist, you know the validity and the
because you have photos and you have videotape, and I
would like to ask you, do you still have those
negatives and those that material that evidence intact? Okay? Based
on the strength of that, I would ask the listeners,
did you try to put themselves in your position and
understand how completely brain numbing this would be to everything
you understood an hour before, and how traumatic and psychologically
debilitating this incident could be. And I say, and you know,
as one human being to another and physical oh of course,
I mean you're sitting there vomiting and everything else, as
one human being to another. I can only imagine what
that was like for you. And I think it's kind
of hard to keep your head strapped on straight under
those conditions.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that's why my mind, I believe, started to
look for little tiny things that were familiar, just for comfort.
Speaker 6: Right, some anchor to prior reality exactly.
Speaker 1: And my mind kept thinking to myself, I've got to
go home, I've got to get out of here. And
then I realized there was a a ranger station about
two miles away, and I thought, okay, i'll drive there.
That'll be good. I'll drive there, and so I drove there,
got in, you know, was in my jeep, drove there,
got sick along the way, had to stop and throw
up and regain some kind of composure to be able
to slow my breathing down, and then I'd drive more.
And I finally got to the ranger station and got out,
and it was closed. I don't know where he was.
I don't know if he was at lunch, but there
was nobody to be found. So I just drank some
water out of their hose and got back in my
jeep and basically headed for home, thinking comfort, home, reality,
my reality. And that's what I kept in my mind
until I found myself back, drove in my carport, and
again sat there in the driver's seat in the carport
for some time and looked in the rearview mirror, and
I'm thinking, maybe none of this happened. But in the
rearview mirror I could see the thermal blanket that was
wrapped around something, and I knew at that point something
had happened. And my mind kept reeling from one point
to another. Did I find my dog? Was my dog
killed by a bear? Or did something happen that I
couldn't bring to my mind to understand. Did I wrap
up my dog and bring her home? And I didn't know,
and I or maybe I didn't want to know because
it didn't make sense. So I got out of the jeep,
I walked to the back. I opened the back of
the jeep and I opened this thermal blanket and then
wrapped it, and there there was this creature, bloody with
a hole in its skull, and I knew it wasn't
my dog, and so I literally picked it up. Walked
into my garage, which was an external building from my house,
and opened the door and thought, where am I going
to put this? Where can I hide this until somebody
can help me? And there in front of me was
my old freezer a big, you know, deep freeze like
a coffin, right, yeah, And I walked over to it,
opened the lid, didn't have a lock on it, and
grabbed the basket that was inside of it because it
really didn't have a whole lot of food in it.
Took the basket out, set it on the floor, and
just took the whole body and put it in the
freezer and closed the door. And I just closed the
door of the garage, walked in the house and went
and stood in the shower for I don't know how long,
just to just to clean my body, just to clean
the mess that I was and try to regain some
kind of composure. I mean, I was losing control of
myself even emotionally at that point, and it just felt
good to stand in the shower. It felt like, you know, home.
Speaker 6: Now. Could you go back a little bit and describe
for the listeners the specifics about the body. What, for example,
what was did it have two legs and two arms?
Speaker 1: It looked like a child. It looked like a small
seven year old child, two legs, two arms. The arms
were longer then normal human's arms, very kind of spindily.
It was wrapped in a dark black, if you can
imagine like a Spandex suit with no seams, no no buttons,
no zippers, like almost tight to its neck, and then
its head exposed. Its hands were covered with the same material,
and they were like mittens. There were like it looked
like three big fingers, three okay okay on each on
each arm, on each hand, and it had two legs,
and it had feet that were covered in the same material.
But it was all one. It was all one piece
of material like Spandex or even a scuba suit. It
was black, almost black, and shiny. It felt a little
bit oily, but yet there was no residue on my
hands when I when I did finally touch it. We
did do a topical examination a few days after I
had brought it home, after I had called my friend
and said I need help, please come help me, and
we were able to realize that its body was basically
very similar to a human's body. It had ribs, it
had all the same joints, arms joints, and wrist joints
and shoulder joints and legs and hips, all the same
basic anatomy. I tried to cut the suit off of
it with an exact O knife. My friend and I
actually took the body out of the freezer and laid
it on a table that I set up in my
garage and tried to cut the suit. Well, it cut
about six inches, and as soon as I pulled the
exact knife up, it sealed itself, just like a receiling material.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 1: And then I cut it again and it did it again.
And the third time I went to cut it, it
wouldn't let me cut it. I could not pull the
exact knife down to slit the material.
Speaker 6: Holy smoke.
Speaker 1: Now this was in nineteen ninety six. About six years later,
NASA came out and said, we've invented a new self
ceiling fabric for our astronauts. Just a coincidence, Yeah, coincidence.
Speaker 4: When you pulled the body out of the freezer, yes,
was it frozen or was it still pliable?
Speaker 1: Well, it was semi frozen. It was. It was harder
than it was when I put it in. Now, in
day one, when I brought it home, I went back out,
after standing in the shower and cleaning myself up and
talking myself out of believing that there really was this
creature in my freezer. Again, I had comforted myself and saying, oh,
it has to be my dog. It's got to be
my dog. And I went back out, you know, confident
that my dog was going to be in the freezer.
Well again I looked at it. It wasn't my dog.
So I went in the house that called some friends.
I called my girlfriend, who wasn't home. I called another
guy who was a really good friend of mine, and
I got him and I said, I need your help.
I need you to come over here, Susie. My dog
had died and I need help. I'm really sick. So
he came over, talked to me, you know, calmed me down,
and I started to tell him the story, and of
course he didn't believe me. He thought I was totally,
you know, out of my mind and hallucinating. And I said, okay,
I said, then come to come to the garage with me.
And so I took him to the garage and I said, look,
you look open the open the garage. The door's the freezer,
and you look, you tell me what's in that that
thermal blanket? And he looked, and I believe he probably
didn't breathe for almost a minute. And then we all
both ran in the house. And didn't say anything and
just drank a bottle of scotch and both of us
were like, you know, again in denial and not believing
what we had seen, what was really there. But after
a few hours went by, you know, he said, my
friend said I know what this is, and I'm saying
to him, I don't know what it is, and I
don't want to I don't want to speculate. And he said, well,
it's got to be some kind of extraterrestrial and I said,
I don't. I don't believe in that. I don't think so.
And he said, well, yes it is. It makes perfect sense.
And he said, we got to do something about it.
We got to call some people, We got to you know,
and I, you know, and I said, well, you you
do what you have to do. I said, I can,
you know, barely get from here to the bathroom. And
so that's how the process started. He started calling people
and trying to get somebody to come and look at it,
trying to get somebody to come and help us, because
as far as I was concerned, I wanted to get
rid of the whole thing. I didn't want to deal
with it. I didn't want to see it I didn't
want to be around it because I assumed it was
making me sick, because I was still sick even at
home for almost three days. But nevertheless, I had people
come to my house who I worked with, other doctors
other from the University of Washington that I worked with.
Ten different people had seen the body during the first
two and a half days, and all of them said,
it's incredible, it's nothing we've ever seen. Yes, you need
to do something with it, but most of them didn't
know what to do, and a lot of them were
afraid of what might happen if they got involved. And
that's how we started doing what if you want to
call research on it. On the third day, a fella
who I worked with directly in the hospital, a friend,
old time friend, another doctor I had called and said,
please come over and take a look at what I found.
And that's about all I said on the phone. And
he was excited and he said, sure, you know, no problem.
He had been over to my house many times, and
about an hour before he was supposed to get there,
I got a call that from him saying, I'm not coming.
I think you should quit this and get rid of
whatever your concern is. And he hung up, so his
tone totally changed. His attitude was nothing like he ever
was before, and I was angry. I was angry. So
I went back out to the garage to put away
the table that I had got out on a light
for him to look at it. And I heard this
sound in the garage. I heard this scratching or rubbing
sound like it was coming from underneath the freezer, and
I figured, oh, it's the compressor going out, because it
was an older freezer and I'd been opening and closing it,
you know, over the last two and a half days.
And so I figured, okay, well, if it's if it's broken,
if the freezer is broken, the thermometer on the inside
will tell me the temperature is going up, and then
I'm going to have to find somewhere else to put
this body. So I took a look, I opened the door,
and as I opened the door the freezer, the creature
sat up, uncurled itself, and screamed at me with such
a velocity and such a volume that it literally pushed
my chest against the wall of the garage.
Speaker 6: So even with it was.
Speaker 1: Alive, it was totally alive.
Speaker 6: Was the wound healed in its head at that time
or was it still for the last.
Speaker 1: Couple of days, since I had been taking it in
and out of the freezer to show people and to
do this examination, I had taken a piece of duct
tape and literally folded back the piece of skull, the
piece of bone, you know, with all of its connections
and all of the skin on the outside of it,
and just duct taped it back in place so that
it wouldn't flop all over. And so the question remains,
was it healed. I don't know if it healed, but
I will say it was frozen in place right. And
as it sat up and screamed at me, it was
still duct taped to its head.
Speaker 6: Geese.
Speaker 1: And at that point I just ran out the door.
I left the freezer open, I left the garage door open.
I ran in my house and just almost cowered inside
my house. Wow, because I figured it's I'm next. It's
coming to get me.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I remember the watching the video of the examination
that you did of the creature, and I know that
a lot of people who you didn't notice it at
the time, but a lot of people who watched the
video did notice how the creature's eyes blinked at one point.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I will say, and again we have
to reference when this was ninety six, I had an
older high eight video camera, which was one of the
first smaller cassette video cameras made by Nikon branded by Sony,
I believe. But at the time, the viewfinder was this little, tiny, tiny,
up to your one eye to look through viewfinder, and
it was black and white, you know, just a little
tiny half inch square to look into. It wasn't like
the view cameras of nowadays, you know, where you've got
this big screen. So I had to really stick my
eye in the thing just to even kind of find
what I was pointing the camera at. And I didn't
realize that it was blinking. In fact, it's very it's
very obvious when you know what you're looking for after
you've seen it, that it's basically playing. Possum didn't want
me to know it was awake.
Speaker 4: Could that have been or could it have been in
a type of a coma where you know, there are
people who are in a coma or even a vegetative
state where their eyes open, they blink, they move, but
yet they're still not fully conscious.
Speaker 1: Well, any of that is possible. And there's one other
thing that we have to take into consideration. There are
creatures on our earth that live with us that can
actually survive and operate just on half a brain. And
I don't mean that as a joke, even though there's
some people that operate on half a brain.
Speaker 4: Or less in my experience exactly.
Speaker 1: But no, seriously, we do know that there are some
reptilians that can actually survive only with half of their
brain functioning. We also know that in humans, if people
are injured, severely injured with a brain trauma, that our
human brain will actually try to relocate different sections of
its memory and facilitate a new area to augment the
damage site, which is amazing when you really think about it.
So to answer your question, I don't know if it
was fully conscious. I didn't realize. If I would have
realized it was blinking at the time I was walking
over it with the camera, I would have been out
of there. I would have been long gone.
Speaker 4: I don't blame you.
Speaker 6: Well, I think it's fair to say, though it seems
somewhat congruent that the fact that there was some association
with this craft or the obelisk, and that was very cold.
So therefore, since you placed it in a very cold environment,
it's not hard to stretch some logical conclusion that that
may have been actually conducive to it remaining alive exactly.
Speaker 1: So, I mean that's and then we also know that like,
for instance, penguins live their whole life at you know,
thirty below zero, So we know that it's possible. We
know that it's possible that a red blood air breathing
creature can survive at great low temperatures.
Speaker 4: Sure, well, on that note, Jonathan, we're going to take
our first break. This first hour has flown, so stay
where you are. Everyone will be right back after these messages.
You're listening to Unknown Origins Radio. Don't go away.
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Speaker 4: Do you know what I am sitting here talking to
my newte button.
Speaker 6: We're just getting ready to let you know that way
to go.
Speaker 4: Mark, Okay, well, well you know what, you know it's
it wouldn't be unknown. Yeah, life goes on, so let
me get back to it. Welcome back to Unknown Origins Radio.
I'm Mark Johnson along with Bruce Pearson, and our guest
tonight is doctor Jonathan Reid, author of the book Link
an Extraterrestrial Odyssey. And Jonathan, before we uh went to break,
we were talking about how this creature that you had
encountered in the forest, it killed your dog, and you
had brought it home, showed it to some people, trying
to figure out what you're going to do, and then
it wakes up and uh at that point, what happens then?
Besides you breaking.
Speaker 1: Ran in the house and called my friend, who was
so excited, you know, about what he thought I'd found,
and I said, you know, Gary, we got it. We
have a bigger problem. And he came over and he said, well,
what what? Somebody stole it?
Speaker 8: What?
Speaker 1: And I said no, I said it's it's alive. And
of course he didn't believe me. Again he thought I
was pulling his leg. I said, go look, let's go
to the go out to the garage, and look, I said,
maybe it ran away, because the last time I saw
it it was like, you know, coming out of the freezer.
And he went out, and we opened the door to
the garage and looked in there, and it jumped out
the same way it did and screamed at him and
me standing in front of it. We both let the
lid slam down on its head and ran in the
house and both just sat there basically cowering because this
thing was incredibly powerful for being such a little, small
in size creature. And it was like nothing I had
ever could ever imagine. It was powerful. This tone, this
velocity of its voice had a power to it. It
was like a weapon pushing us away, and just a
terrible scream. And I actually was able to record part
of that scream later on on an audio tape. But
all I can say is it scared the living daylights
out of us, as well as everything else. And we thought, well,
it's either going to run away, or it's going to
hurt us or something, or maybe we should put it down.
Maybe it's a named animal now and we should put
it out of its misery. And this was you know,
our thoughts flying through the air at the moment, and
I said, well, I'm not going to do it. I'm
not going to do it, and Gary says, well, I'll
do it. I'll go out take a shovel you to it.
And we were just thinking that it was going to,
you know, be in pain, being suffering, and or that
it was going to jump out and hurt someone. So
that was the thought. As idiotic as it is, that
was the thought. And so Gary went out and basically
prepared with a blade shovel and was going to put
down and he didn't. He couldn't do it because he
went in there and opened the lid and it literally
just looked up at him and he said, I can't
do it. And it's intelligent. He said, there's an intelligence
about it. And there was. There was truly a feeling
that it was more than just an animal, that there
was an intelligence to it. And little by little, within
the next few hours, we even sat in front of
it with the door of the freezer open, where it
would stick its head up and look around and look
at us with these big dark eyes, these big almond
shaped eyes, almost like it was asking for something or
or wanting us to do something. And within the next
few days I found myself sitting in front of the
freezer and asking questions, just saying, what can I do that.
I'm sorry I hurt you, but you killed my dog,
trying to explain to it for maybe a cathartic reason
in myself, just to try to rationalize what had happened.
And little by little, I felt like it was listening.
It was maybe not understanding, but it was aware that
I was trying to communicate.
Speaker 4: Were you feeling any feelings of anger towards it at
this point because of what it did do to your dog?
Or maybe I mixed emotions.
Speaker 1: I had mixed emotions. It had killed my dog, and
I was angry about that, but I was also angry
that I had tried to kill it, and I was
almost apologizing for it, for my own actions. And like
I said, little by little, I felt like it was
trying to understand, or at least in my mind, I
felt like it was. And then I started to feel
that there was something else going on, like there was
imagery being put in my mind of my own history,
like when I was a young boy, and those feelings,
those images were so vivid, it was almost like a
motion picture being projected into my mind, and I later
found out that that was part of his or its communication,
because it started to communicate. It started to put imagery
in my head of shapes and let's say, a landscape
that looked not familiar to me at all, but geometry,
a lot of geometric shapes that didn't make any sense
to me, and little by little I felt it was communicating.
Speaker 6: Now, there was no further screaming episodes after that last
one in the garage with your friend Gary.
Speaker 1: Well, there was one more after that, but it wasn't
quite the same. I think it was fear. I think
it was afraid of us, and I can say for
good reason, Hey, I tried to kill it.
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I mean that would engender a little period.
Speaker 1: That was my motivation.
Speaker 6: Is it fair to say, though, that beyond that reactionary scream,
it did not exhibit any aggressive behavior like raising its
hands or coming at you or that type of thing.
Speaker 1: Oh, it never did. In fact, I know because I
saw what it did to my dog, and I know
it could have by its own strength, strength like an orangutan,
that it probably could have reached out and literally tore
me apart, because I saw that happen. So it never
showed any type of aggression.
Speaker 6: Toward me, and no further I'm sorry, I was.
Speaker 1: Just going to say, in fact, as time went by,
you know, the book that I wrote is about the
first nine days that I was actually with this thing
in my home, in my garage, and close to the
eighth day, I had actually tried to give it food.
I had tried to give it anything that would would
help it and cause it to understand that I was
not a threat. I tried dog food and all kinds
of things, and it wouldn't eat anything. It wouldn't It
would touch it, it might smell it, but it wouldn't
eat it. It actually got out of the freezer and
would sit kind of rocking back and forth on its
haunches right in front of the freezer. And I finally
put some water on the floor and it drank some water.
And that's the only thing that it ever took. And
one day I put some water in a little metal
cup and reached out as far as I could and
handed it to it, and it touched my hand in
taking the water and taking the cup. But it was
so gentle, and it was watching my reaction when it
touched me, so it was it was testing me.
Speaker 6: Interesting And how did I feel what it touched?
Speaker 3: You?
Speaker 6: I had what was the feel of its skin or temperature?
Speaker 1: Very very gentle. It just touched the outside of my
fingers wrapped around this cup. And like I said, the
material on its hands and on its body was like
a skin tight fabric. But during the topical examination, when
I was actually able to feel the bone structure, I
could feel that there were actually five fingers inside of
this mitten like glove. Wow. Wow.
Speaker 6: There was no further contact with the with the vehicle
if you will, or the craft.
Speaker 1: No after that, no, Well, the next day, my friend
Gung Ho, as he was scary, decided he'd take a
truck and some chains and try to go up and
bring it back. And it wasn't there. There was nothing there.
In fact, some of the ferns that were underneath it
that I had actually pulled out when I used the
other branch to kind of go underneath it were almost
like they had been replanted or like the time had
never happened. Wow.
Speaker 6: Were you able to photograph or videotape any of these
interactions between you and the creature in front of you, know,
rocking on its haunches or any of that.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I was. I was able to photograph a
lot of things. Wow. But as the story goes, during
this nine day period, somebody knocked on my door of
my house in the afternoon and there were there were
three people there in.
Speaker 6: Suits, right, let's get into this.
Speaker 1: And saying, doctor Reid, we need to talk to you
about what you found. And I said I didn't find anything,
and he said, we know you did. We know that
it's very serious what you found, and you need to
listen to what we have to tell you. And of
course I was angry and arrogant, and I didn't, you know,
still sick from what was going on, and I didn't
want anybody poking into, you know, into my business, into
my house, my private life. But yet they knew. Somehow
they knew. And I don't know if they'd monitored phone conversations.
I don't know if they had found out through other
people that had been in my house. But these people
were eerily like men in black, like the description you
hear of the agents, who are very professional and very
well spoken, and every word formally introduced, almost in a
hypnotic state, to where they're telling you if you don't
work with us. The next people that will come will
tear your life apart.
Speaker 6: Did they indicate who they at any time who they
were with or did you inquire as to.
Speaker 1: Yes, they said, they said, without any question, we are
with a group called the School. And I said, what school?
You know? And they just continued with their with their
diatribe of how this was going to ruin my life
and ruin my family, and that nobody is ready and
prepared to deal with this kind of thing, and neither
was I. And they were right, but I wasn't going
to concede to them. I was not going to fold.
And I said, I'm going to call the police. And
they said, well, the police is with us. And I
looked out my front door and there was a police
car sitting in front of their car.
Speaker 6: And this was a state trooper Corps or a local
police or.
Speaker 1: Share the local Seattle police and.
Speaker 6: The city of Seattle. Yes, were you ever able to
follow up on that and determine did you have the
ability to stay acquired?
Speaker 1: We inquired through people that I even personally knew who
were Seattle police, and they said they had no indication
that this had ever happened. I gave a copy of
my videotape to a local television station, which was ki
RO Channel seven television in Seattle.
Speaker 6: Which is a major station and a major sandization.
Speaker 1: I had indicated what it was and that you know,
this was something that I'd found and that they could
check and verify who I was. And within i'd say
two hours of me dropping that off with a producer
of the station, I got a call from the producer
who said, doctor Reid, I don't know what you're into,
but your tape and everything else has been confiscated and
these guys are coming after you.
Speaker 6: Wow. Well, that rings true to other incidents in my
investigative experience and personal experience too, so I can tell
you that I don't dispute the validity of that statement
at all.
Speaker 1: Well, on the ninth day, after bringing the thing home,
after it waking up, after it proving to me and
to friends who had seen it alive and awake, I
drove home to find two big vans in front of
my house, parked up in my yard basically carting things
out of my house. Men and like moving men clothes,
you know, like jumpsuits, taking hand trucks of things out
of my house. Well, I didn't stop. I drove up
to another friend's house and waited for a while, and
came back and found that my house had been ransacked,
and not only had they taken most of everything in
the house, but they had poked holes in the floor,
in the plasterboard walls, in the ceiling like they were
looking for something, and systematically poking holes in the yard,
in the grass, and taking the toilet off of the floor,
leaving it just laying aside in the bathroom, and the
state removed from the wall, and the water running everywhere,
and stove pulled out, refrigerator pulled out, I mean, just
really ransacked the house. And I went to the garage
and the garage door wasn't just open, they had pried
the whole door frame out of the garage.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 1: And of course the freezer was gone, and so were
a lot of other things that didn't make any sense,
Like there was a cord of wood chopped and piled
up in my garage and they took the whole court
of wood. What you know, why would that be? You know,
it didn't make any sense. But the freezer was gone,
so immediately I assumed, oh, well, they got him you know,
they took him and as I was looking, I saw
some small, wet looking footprints, of silvery wet footprints on
the floor. And they didn't go to the door or
to the big door, the big garage door. They went
directly to the wall, like he had walked right through
the wall, and I had hoped he got away.
Speaker 4: Well, I know a lot of other experiencers have reported
that type of phenomenon, these beings being able to move
through solid walls and windows.
Speaker 1: Well, about six months later, I was I had left
the country. I my family was being harassed, my friends
and houses were being broken into, and you know, I
was being run off the road several times. So I
left Seattle and left the country for Vancouver, Canada, and
I lived in my car for you know, on and
off for about a year, homeless, no money, you know,
I didn't know what to do. And one day I
was in this kind of abandoned apartment that I had
found to kind of live in temporarily, and this little guy,
which we call started calling Freddie, this little alien just
appeared in the corner of the room. And at first
I thought, well, it's an illusion, it's just my mind
playing tricks. On me, But it wasn't. It just appeared
like it just warped into my reality and literally walked
over and sat in front of me, kind of rocking
back and forth, just looking at me. And I could
feel it scratching in my mind, almost like it was saying,
I'm here, I'm here, see me.
Speaker 6: Could I interrupt for a second. Can we back up
a couple steps because I want to, you know, looking
at this as an investigative journalist, after they I mean
they not only burglarized your house, they ransacked so it
was uninhabitable. Did you file a police report at that
time on that incident?
Speaker 1: Let me let me tell you so much was happening
so quickly. One day during the nine days when at first,
when I first brought it home, my assistant that I
worked with at the University Washington Medical Center called me
at home and said, Jonathan, are you are you changing departments?
Are you moving? And I said no, And he said, well,
they've completely disassembled your office and they've taken it. They've
taken everything out of your office, all the computers, all
your books, all your filing cabinets. I mean, they've they've
taken your whole office apart and I said no, As
far as I know, nobody told me. And later on
I called my own office and asked for doctor Reed
and they said, we have no listening for a doctor Reid.
Now I had worked there for over eleven years. Jeez
So told that if they talked about me, if they
made any reference to me, that their job and their
security of their family could have been in grave danger.
Speaker 6: Well, we haven't heard this before, have we.
Speaker 1: I don't know they that they could in fact be
an accomplice to a major felony. Now I have had people,
those people, those friends of mine, people who worked with me.
I have their testimonies on videotape. I've had them on
our bell before. Some of them have traveled with me. Uh,
you know, I have substantial amount of credible information from
other people who knew me, who knew I worked there.
All of my credentials from my two universities was gone overnight, erased,
absolutely unavailable.
Speaker 6: Sounds like Bob Lazora.
Speaker 1: Actually, well, all I know is I had to go
and find a couple of professors that actually I had
classes with and get their testimony to prove in fact
who I was and that I did in fact graduate
from San Diego State and from UCLA.
Speaker 4: When they ransacked the house and they took everything. What
happened to all the photos and videos and the evidence
that you took of the creature during that time.
Speaker 1: Well, luckily, about a day before that, my friend's house,
Gary had somebody had broke into his house and did
the same thing, but not as extensively, but just kind
of went through everything. But it wasn't just a normal
burglar because he had money laying on his credenza that
wasn't touched. He had all kinds of great stereo equipment
that wasn't touched. All they took with his cameras and
anything to do with film or videotape, that's what they took,
and yet took a point at that point he made
a phone call to me. He said, take at least
half of everything you've got and put it in the car,
take it away and go mail it to somebody. And
I did. I mailed it out of the country in fact,
and that's the only material I have left. That's why
about sixty percent of it is gone. Wow, because when
they came through my house, they took everything. They took everything.
Speaker 4: Now Here you are, you're in Vancouver, living in an
abandoned apartment, and right the sentity shows back up and
appears to you. And what happens then.
Speaker 1: Well, at that point, I halfway didn't believe it. I
halfway thought, well, it's you know, I'm just losing my
mind because of everything that's happened. I mean, I've lost
my life, I've lost my my livelihood, which I was
passionate about. I loved my job, and I was I
was feeling very low, very abandoned, and didn't know where
to turn because every time I would turn somewhere, people
would be attacked my family, my friends, literally.
Speaker 4: Attacked by physically physically assaulted.
Speaker 1: Yes, And so I decided that I was, you know,
the only real way to deal with this was to
take me out of the equation. So that's why I
left the country. And after living, you know, homeless for
almost a year, I was, I was on the on
the end of my ropes, and I was. I got
to the point where I was sitting in this basement
without any electricity, without any money, without any real hope,
and I had a gun in one hand, and I
had a phone number in the other, and I had
been given this phone number during those nine days by
some people who just came up to me, like in
a store and said, Jonathan, you're not going to believe us,
but you're going to need this phone number at some
time because you're going to need to trust somebody. Well,
at that point, I didn't believe nor trust anyone, especially
not people in a grocery store handed me some phone number,
so luckily I kept it. I put it in my wallet.
I kept it. And now I was sitting, like I said,
with a gun in one hand and a phone number,
and I thought, well, I can shoot myself anytime and
end this vein, but I might as well call the
phone number, just for curiosity's sake. And so I did
and the phone I went to a payphone. I called
this number, and the people answered and immediately said, Jonathan,
what can we do to help you?
Speaker 6: Like they were all waiting for you me wow.
Speaker 1: And I immediately hung up. I mean, I was paranoid.
I was scared to death about what this was. So
I waited for an hour and I called back and
the same voice on the phone said, Jonathan, we're here
to help you. What can we do? Tell us what
we can do? Do you need money? Do you need
a doctor. Do you need a place to live? And
I was arrogant, and I said, fine, I need some money.
Put some money somewhere and I'll pick it up, you know.
So I gave them instructions of what to do. They
followed it to the letter. I watched them put an
envelope with money in a place where it was in public,
open space, and they walked away. And I had told them,
I said, if anybody's around there, I said, I'm not
even gonna call you or pick it up or nothing.
But they did what I had asked them. They left
me three hundred dollars and I picked it up and
there was a note inside that says, call us when
you're ready.
Speaker 4: Did you Were you afraid at this point that these
people were involved with these other people from the quote
on sports School, Of.
Speaker 1: Course, I figured that's who they were, that they were
baiting me, So I was as careful. I mean, I
had the gun with me. I was ready to kill
somebody if they walked up to me. And you know,
to to make a long story short, you know, when
you lose your sense of reality, you don't care anymore
about right and wrong. You just care about survival. Exactly
and I didn't care. I really didn't care because my
life was over as far as I knew. You know,
I had no home, I had no friends, I couldn't
talk to my family, nothing, And at that point, you know,
I was really struggling just to survive, just to eat.
I mean, I was stealing food. I had lost like
seventy five pounds, you know, and it was terrible. It
was very, very traumatic.
Speaker 4: They helped me.
Speaker 1: They proved to me that they did what they said
they would do. And I called them about I don't know,
four or five days later, and I said, I don't
even know why I'm calling you, and they said, well,
you know, let's talk about it. And they were very
careful and very gentle. They didn't force me to talk
about anything I didn't want to, but they provided me
with some comfort in saying, we know what you're dealing with.
We've dealt with other people that have had these kind
of experiences. We know that it's not comfortable for you,
but we can help you. We can help you understand
this if you want to. They did, and they did.
Speaker 4: What amazes me what really interests me in about this
part of your story? And I read the part in
the book where these people who had approached you and
to me, it's very similar to what Stan Lisa Romanek
had dealt with with Stan's story. Because of this whole
good and evil, black and white shadow type government or
and groups within groups. You have the negative ones, the
men in blaque, the ones that make the experiencers' lives hell.
And then there was the there seems to be either
a subgroup within there or a separate group of people
who seem to help people like yourself within these situations.
Speaker 1: Well, all I know is that both of those groups exist,
and they both changed the reality of the way I
was living. You know, one drove me to the brink
of almost suicide and the other brought me back. And
I kept asking the question, why why are you doing this?
Why do you care about me? And they said, it's
it's not just you, It's that this is happening to many,
many people all over the world, and that you know,
what you're going through is an important issue, even though
you may not think so, even though you may not
even believe what has happened to you, it is an
important issue. And little by little they made me understand
why it was important. It's important because it is happening
to thousands of people, and that a lot of us
don't come out. A lot of us don't ever talk
about it. We're driven so far underground. Either we just
pretend it never happened, or we're convinced that if we
ever talk about it, people will isolate us and call
us insane, which a lot of times happens. That's right,
But I was told that it was important for people
to know that there are others that have experienced this,
that we're not insane, and that there is a reality
that we don't know about that we've never given a
chance to, at least myself because it wasn't part of
my life. I wasn't part of my paradigm. And over
the last eighteen years since that first encounter, like I
just told you, he has come back. In fact, he's
come back many many times in front of me and
in front of other people that know me. Wow, this
is not an isolated issue. This has happened, maybe more
than fifty times in the last eighteen years.
Speaker 6: How the follow up questions, if I made real quick
did this the helpful group? Did they identify who they were?
You were told the other ones were with the school.
Who's this helpful group of people? Do they Do you
have any idea where they're from or what you know
their makeup? Is it the same people you talk to
each time?
Speaker 1: No, it's not the same group as the negative people
of you.
Speaker 6: No, No, I understand it.
Speaker 1: And it's also initially it was the same people I talked.
There was a confidence issue. They wanted to ensure that
I stayed with the same people and that I became
familiar with them. And at one point they even said,
we know you have something, Jonathan, we know you have
an artifact besides the creature, and if you ever need
help dealing with that, And of course I was paranoid
and I immediately thought, oh, they're going to take it.
They're going to take it from me. And the one
guy said, well, Jonathan will show you ours if you
show them show us yours. And I said, well, what
do you mean and he says, well, we've collected artifacts
for over the last hundred years.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 1: And some of them are broken, some of them are
dismantled and not complete, and some are complete. And I said, fine,
you show me yours and then I will think about
me showing you what I've got and so they did.
They took me in an airplane and flew to All
I can say is it was a desert ye region,
kind of like Arizona or New Mexico by that feeling.
And we went into a car and we went into
a kind of a warehouse, small warehouse, into an elevator,
and they showed me some things that defy my understanding
of reality and objects that totally did not represent my
way of science, my way of thinking. And it wasn't
an illusion, it wasn't a projection, it wasn't a drug
induced state of mind. I was there physically. I saw
these things. I touched some of them, and they were miraculous.
I saw a thing that was the size of like
a a school bus that was all made of something
like glass.
Speaker 4: Did any of these objects function?
Speaker 1: Say, let's see.
Speaker 4: I was asking, did any of these objects still function?
Speaker 1: Yes? And when I touched the side of this glass sculpture,
this glass object, it rippled in color like it was
feeling my touch. And the guy with me said, get
angry and slap it, and I did, and it changed
in color and its reaction as if it was reacting
to my anger, my emotions.
Speaker 4: Huh. The artifact that you found. Yes, can you talk
about that?
Speaker 1: Yes? And this is the name of the book. The
book is called Link and the device I call the
Link artifact. It is a silver bracelet type device that
I've determined is worn on the wrist of the little
guy that I found. We've determined that it does function.
It is self powered. It produces a pulse of radiation
every quarter second. It has a silver surface with some
hieroglyphs on it that are like almost like buttons. They're
a little bit raised from the surface and they're black.
I have no idea what those those hieroglyphs mean. We've
put it out to the public to all kinds of
people to figure out what they mean. One of them
is similar to the Egyptian hieroglyph for raw or door.
This device is very unique because I put it on
the arm of the creature when he was unconscious, or
when I thought he was unconscious, And it's like a cuff.
It's like a cuff, open ended, and when I put
it on its arm, it closed tightly around its arm
on this black fabric and it instantly turned dark, almost
black like the color of the fabric. When I touched
the surface of it. At one corner of it, it
opened back up. Now, this material that it's made out
of is like it looks like stainless steel, but it's
very very light, the very light. And there's picture on
Facebook and on the website of this. I took it
to Japan to a university through some with the helps
of some other people, and they did some metallurgy on it,
and they found that it was a unique blend of
minerals and materials that we have here on Earth, but
also some that are unknown. They have no idea what
some of the materials are. It actually morphs itself from
a solid state to this pliable state where it wraps
itself around the arm. It has three needles inside of
it that actually penetrate the wearer. And these needles are
close to a half inch in length, and they're made
out of gold. And at the end of each the
base of each gold needle, there is a round sphere
of almost pure emerald, almost like a like you like
a conductor, like a like an insulator. Okay, And all
we can figure out is that this is a biological
connection between the wearer and this cuff, this device, which
is possibly a communicator, possibly a activator of some kind,
or making the statement. Maybe it's calling for help, maybe
it's calling to be activated. We don't exactly know.
Speaker 4: So I have to ask the obvious question, have you
ever worn it?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 4: I have, and what did you experience?
Speaker 7: If anything?
Speaker 1: Well, I put it on one day. I don't know why.
I don't have any idea why I actually did it.
But it immediately morphed around my arm, around my left arm,
my left wrist. It's very painful when the needles stick
into your nerves, into your arm, but then it immediately
turns cold, like frozen, within a couple of seconds, and
the pain subsides. But then there is a vibration that
starts in the center of your chest, almost like a
rhythmic pounding that gets stronger and stronger, only similar to
the thrombosis of a heart attack, that starts emulating from
the middle of your chest to your extremities everywhere in
your body. You feel this pounding and pounding, and it's painful.
It's not gentle. It gets severe, and then my sight
starts to become dim, almost like tunnel vision, but not
completely black, and then all of a sudden it's bright
white again, and I'm standing in an egg shaped room
that's about forty feet high and about twenty five feet wide,
and standing over the top of me from the side
of this egg shaped room is this column of energy
that is oscillating in gold and yellows and oranges and
has a sense of presence, has a sense of intelligence,
almost like it's covered in a golden robe. And in
that second, all I could feel was like I was
in the presence of an angel. I didn't want to
go any where. I didn't want to I didn't want
to leave that space. It was like, that's where I
want to be.
Speaker 4: Do you feel that this was a physical experience, like
you were physically transported or do you think it was
more of something that you can likento like a remote
view or asshal projection type of experience.
Speaker 1: Well, I know it was physical because it's happened several times,
and I've been able to test whether or not it's
physical in several different ways, but one of them, even
to the point where I could see there was there
was grass and some dirt that had come off the
soles of my shoe that were on the floor of
this white room.
Speaker 4: So you are being physically transported to another place for
lack of a better.
Speaker 1: Or another existence. Now, a lot of people have speculated,
people who are really knowledgeable, that this device is probably
a multi dimensional exchanger or transporter, that it is actually
using dimension to shift the reality.
Speaker 4: And I can lean towards that theory myself. Over the
last few years with my research, it just seems that,
you know, a lot of UFO researchers talk about, you know,
the extraterrestrials coming from another planet somewhere in the galaxy,
and yet there seems to be more and more evidence
that suggests that at least a portion of these beings
that are visiting here are not coming from so far away.
They could be coming like from arm's length away, but
from a different dimension of reality.
Speaker 1: Well, during the last ten years, in traveling all over
the world, I've been to fifty three countries. I've talked
to millions of people publicly, personally, on the radio and TV,
you know, all kinds of different things. And I was
I've met a lot of very interesting people. And in
two thousand and five I met a bunch of cosmonauts
from Russia, people who are active cosmonauts, people who have
been to the International Space Station. Marina Popovich I met
talked with for days in Peru, and about a year
later they invited me to Moscow because I became very
good friends with them, and they showed me some things
and asked me if I would be interested in helping
them with the project that they have been working looking on.
And the project they're working on is interstellar communication directly
aimed at extraterrestrial and extra dimensional races. They have made
great strives, they have made great achievements, and I have
become a consultant for this group by what I've learned
and also by what I've learned from them. They believe
that we are being visited by probably two dozen different
races from inter dimensional places, and that some of them,
and this is where you need to really extend yourself,
some of them are from our future, are far far,
far vast future, and that maybe they are us in reality.
Speaker 6: Yes, we've certainly heard that theory advanced before.
Speaker 1: So they're not they're not coming back to save us
from ourselves. They're not coming back to save the Earth
like ecologists wish they would. Probably what they're doing is
their inner their Their whole concept is to preserve life,
all life, because life in itself is a very precious thing.
It's a it's a spiritual precious thing. Not spiritual as
in organized religion, but spiritual as in there's an energy
within ourselves, within life that is very precious to them,
and that's what they want to preserve. No matter which
way it happens to evolve. They're not going to stop
a from you know, ending ourselves, you know. But what
they're what they've tried to do over the centuries, is
teach us things, and we have denied their teaching over
and over and over again. They have sent messengers to us,
they have sent writings to us, they have sent artifacts
to us to give us a leg up. Sometimes we've
cracked the surface and taken advantage of some of those
little evolutionary steps, but most of the time we don't.
We're in our own way most of the time, and
that's bad.
Speaker 6: Well, I'd like to go back, if I may again,
and I not to sure change that concept, because I
think obviously that's the big picture. But I would like
to follow up on two things. What in the intervening
time has been your experience with the Men in Black?
Have they stopped bothering you. Are they still following you?
Speaker 1: Well, there's been. What's interesting is statistically, and I'm big
on statistics, about ninety seven percent of the people that
I've spoken to are open minded, their believers. They can
conceive of what's happened to me, or they even factually
know it because of their own experiences. Three percent are
non believers. They're haters, and they're very vicious. About one
percent that's very vicious. There is a group, and I
would say they're organized like a military group to basically
attack and harass and discredit people who have real experiences
that are really solid. Okay. And what's interesting is they
don't attack the case. They attack the person. They harass you,
they threaten you. I've been shot twice, I've been beaten up,
my back was broke numerous things over the last eighteen years.
I don't know why I'm even alive.
Speaker 6: And yes, and I certainly you know and doing a
research and familiar with your story. Obviously there's there's been
the critics, but you know, I think that you have
and as I'm sure your art would agree with this,
a lot more physical evidence than virtually any you know,
with a few exceptions, in any other cases, I think
that that evidence has to stand to back you up
very strongly. Let me ask you something that perhaps you
have been asked before, but in my many years of
research since I started back in the seventies, uh, quite
by accident in Roswell, I had the opportunity about a
year ago to have have lunch with Jim Peniston, And
if you reviewed the case at Rendalshom, which I'm sure
you're familiar with, the craft that they witnessed up close
in the Rendalsham forest in England seems strikingly similar to
the craft that you know, that you described, you that
you encountered. What have you have you? Has anybody uh
you know presented that kind of a concept with you,
because I think that the shape of the craft, although
yours seemed to be smaller, uh, but I think that
there's a striking similarity between those two craft.
Speaker 1: Have you been approached a year ago in June? I
was actually in August, I was in Rendalshom and I
spent some hours with the people there and went through
the forest and talked at great length about this. I
think there are some minor similarities, but I think when
you really get down to the facts, it's quite different.
Speaker 3: OK.
Speaker 1: But I will say that in talking with you know,
the public for eighteen years about this, I've had fifty
or sixty people draw exactly what I saw in the
forest before they'd ever seen any pictures of mine.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of other people who have seen these.
And I'll just call it like a pod obelisk shape,
you know, this black diamond laying on its side shape,
Marquee diamond shape. And so it's not that it's unusual.
In fact, it's much more prevalent than one would expect.
But it's ongoing. This is an ongoing situation. This is
something that again I never would have believed, you know,
eighteen years ago, but I certainly believe it now. And
I know that the reality that we live in is
not just the physical reality, but it's also a spiritual
reality that blends with the physical. That time and dimension
and space are ebbing and flowing ribbons within the universes,
and that we cross over a lot of times partially
by natural circumstances, and maybe these intelligent beings have learned
to calculate how to use it to their own ability,
their own credit.
Speaker 6: Well, we're coming up to about less than five minutes
left in the show, and we'd to I'd like to
say now on behalf of Marke and we appreciate you
coming in, but we also there's a lot more than
needs to be said and discussed. Clearly, we'd like to
give you an offer to come back. We'd love to
have you back and spend a couple more hours discussing
this real Briefly, I had the opportunity about six months
ago to meet with him again, and I had worked
about a year ago down in Austin with himI Mussan.
Are you currently in contact with himI and what is
your going forward? As a general question, what's next for you?
Are you willing to continue this in a public fashion
or well because of what you.
Speaker 1: Ten years ago, when I made the choice to when
I was invited to join this communications group as a consultant,
I had pretty much decided to stop being part of
the circus of UFO uithology because I didn't have the
feeling that there were a lot of people taking it seriously.
And I made a choice. I made an active choice
to provide my information when I had the ability, like
on your show, to people who are genuinely interested and
open minded enough to listen. I have no problem and
I would love to come back on your show. As
far as you know, preaching about this, I never did that.
I never tried to convince anybody whether you know what
happened to me is real or not, that's up to
you to decide. If it hadn't happened to me personally,
I wouldn't believe it either, And so my way of
thinking is, look, I'm just presenting what's happened to me.
It's fascinating, it's highly unusual, but it's also happening to many,
many other people. I get one hundred emails a week
by people that are new Contact Ease from all over
the world who only want to ask for help and
tell me, Jonathan, keep speaking for us, keep talking for us.
That's probably one of the only reasons that I do.
I am writing another book about all that's happened since
those first nine days. My original book is still available
through Amazon. But there's a lot to be told, there's
a lot more to know. And again, I appreciate you
guys having me and taking the time and the courtesy
to let me speak, and I would enjoy doing it. Again.
Speaker 4: Well, we also want to point out that you will
be back on the Dark Matter Radio Network in the
next few months. I believe you were scheduled to appear
back with Art.
Speaker 1: Yes, Art has had invited me to go back on
when he comes back on, and we'll see how that
all works out. But I look forward to that. Art
was the original guy who broke this story, and then
Heimi Massan took it from there and took it into television,
and then that all exploded and it became a world thing.
So all I can say is it's been a wild ride.
I'm glad to be alive. There's a lot of people
who have helped me along the way who I really appreciate,
and I thank God every day for this life and
for the ability to maybe help others who have been
through something like I have.
Speaker 6: Well, thank you again for your time, and keep up
the good work as best you can. And we know
our job is to get that information out there and
also to let the listeners decide on their own. But
certainly the evidence that you have acquired as well as
your story, speaks quite strongly for the veracity of what
you're saying, and we would like to have you back
and thank you for your time. We greatly appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thank you both, and God bless you.
Speaker 4: Oh, thank you Jonathan your listener. Sure and well, thank
you everyone for listening to another edition of Unknown Origins Radio.
Tune in every Thursday night for eight to ten pm
Eastern Standard Time here on the Dark Matter Radio Network,
and we'll catch you all next week.
Speaker 6: Have a great one, Thanks Keith, have a great one.
Be safe, folks, See you next week.