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Speaker 1: Friend right absolutely, James Fox, Hi, James, Hey, good to

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see you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks so much for letting me come here. And

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the second time I've been here in studio. Last time,

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I don't know if you remember, but we had some

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type of technical issues. I think I got all that

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stuff behind me.

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Speaker 3: I think it's the other than CNN or National Geographic

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Filming in here. You're the only other person that I've

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ever done on camera inside my magical zone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is magical. I just this place is

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just amazing undisclosed location.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, since we just said started out like that,

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I think I'm going to just run a clip right

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here of this place that it just took just I

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don't know, maybe what ten minutes ago.

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Speaker 4: So here we go.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna run this clock all right here, I am

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in the studio with James Fox.

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Speaker 4: We're going to see where it all happens.

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Speaker 3: And this light isn't on right here, because I wanted

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to show you this is a lovely time I had

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in Texas on a lake with how put Off. Oh.

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This was during production of the first documentary, well, actually

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my second documentary, Out of the Blue. That's Tim colemand

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Bors Zooba back in the nineties. That's one of my

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parents is on Joe Rogan. This is just for fun.

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Yeah yeah. This is my father who was a ah

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cool a journalist. This is him Proba when we lived

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in New York working for Cards the magazine back in

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the sixties. Wow, what a great picture. Love leaving the

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trips light on here. This is the letter I got

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from Steven Spielberg's Larry Kinge on my movie back in

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two thousand and nine. That's really cool. That's my dad

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and I on a each together. Awesome goofing off. And

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this is where you edit. This is where I edit.

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I've seen there's all my hard drive. Those are solid state,

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yeah big, about twenty terabytes of solid state. Yeah wow.

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This normally that disc is normally I've seen what happened.

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It's just kind of funny, you know, it's just kind

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of it's a little silly, but it's fun all right. Anyway, Well,

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thank you. And this is uh the situation room over here.

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That's the situation exactly.

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Speaker 4: Well here we are, so yeah, thanks again.

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Speaker 2: And I wanted to talk to you about your movie,

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but other things too, because it's quite a bit going on.

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Speaker 4: Lots of changes a lot has.

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Speaker 3: How to keep up with it? I need Yeah, it's unbelievable.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So how's your movie doing?

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Speaker 3: Doing well? It's only been out three weeks. It was

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at the top of the charts on docks. I think

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it's number two on Apple and numbers three or something

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on Amazon. It gone back and forth. You know. We

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have more promotions coming to the end of the month.

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We got more coming to February. But it's the most

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independent released film that I've ever done, like we don't have. Normally,

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you produce a documentary and you get completion funds and

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then you get a budget, you sign with a distributor

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or somebody buys the movie, like I've done with all

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my previous films, almost all of them. But in this case,

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we don't even have a distributor. We have somebody more

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seen as an aggregator. So it's somebody that can take

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the film and just literally put it on the various

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platforms like Amazon and Apple and all the other Google

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Play and Vendango and YadA ya YadA, and then and

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then we come up with all the pr money that

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you need to pay for the trailer and all that stuff.

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So it's the most independent production that we've ever done,

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so it's a very grassroots effort.

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Speaker 4: That's great.

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Speaker 3: Now I got it.

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Speaker 2: I told you at dinner earlier that I've watched it

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three times and I love it. It's I used to say,

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out of the Blue, and I know you have your

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own you know, worst critic on your films. Out of

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the Blue, I used to say, long before I ever

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met you the first time. You know, I've told people

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that that was my absolute favorite film is out of

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the Blue. And now I just I just love this one.

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I mean, I rarely watch anything more than once, and

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I watch that three times, and I just love the

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way you transition things so smoothly. It shows a maturity

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or something something's changed in your filmmaking that this was

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just a real smooth.

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Speaker 3: I like pacting, you know, as you can see on

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the board behind me, I generally do like very broad

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strokes when I set out to I'm like winging it

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practically to make a production, and I'm capturing things as

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I'm learning them, as things are unfolding. I don't like,

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like a lot of reality TV shows feel very stage

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because they are everything that's happening, and my productions are happening.

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They're unfolding as they unfold, including the last interview that

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I got, the last possible second with Richard Greeb. He

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contacted me that I had mispronounced his name, so I said,

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I propose that, well, Richard Gieve, he's the Uh. We

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were actually right over here in the edit studio, and

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it was it was a really key bit of testimony

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on the cow on the nineteen ninety Calvine photograph because

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the photographers and witnesses had vanished for twenty four years.

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The print had disappeared, and then, thank god to the

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hard work and dedication of David Clark and others, the

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photograph was found. Craig Lindsay, the former ARIF press officer,

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managed to get it on camera. Interview with him. Then

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we got and then I got Nick Pope to go

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on camera, Clark to go on camera, the guy that

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is in the analysis working the photograph going to camera.

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But we don't know what happened to the witnesses, right,

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So yeah, the last possible minute, we're over here editing away.

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It was a bunch of people in the room and

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I've been contacting Richard. He was over and over and

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over and then you know, he kind of went dark

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and I thought maybe I pushed too hard. Yeah, and

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he slipped between the cracks like a bar of soap

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in the bathtub or something. And and then he called

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and so that whole interview was done just completely unprepared.

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Grab my cell phone, quick, gab your cell phone, film

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me talking to my cell phone, and you know, yeah,

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so it was all It all happened like that. I mean,

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even Kirk McConnell, the Senate Armed Service Committee Chief Chief

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of staffer, flew up at the last minute, you know,

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from Washington, d C. And actually we did. We actually

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filmed in here. Wow, for that interview.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was great having him on, even though it

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was just audio. But uh, you know, I mean it

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was he I'm glad you had like subtitles because he

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was a little difficult to understand.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, I mean, uh yeah, that was really great.

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Speaker 2: But so the story is those those guys were I mean,

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it's another it's hard to even say this men in

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black type of situation.

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Speaker 3: You know. When he was first telling me the story,

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I was like, well, hang on a second, so this

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is what you heard. He goes, No, he goes. I

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was standing outside having a cigarette break with my coworkers,

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the guys. The witness said that took the photograph. We

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were standing outside and this bar rolls up. You saw this?

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He yes, I swear to my great great great green. Yeah,

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it's one of my favorite lines in the movie. He said.

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I work with him in the kitchen. I made poached eggs.

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They made those stuns and you know, buddy Guessa pair

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after thirty four years. Yeah, and I had Patty's Zubov.

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She's been a copy editor with me for a while.

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She's very, very good at talking eyes and crossed the

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tase and she contacts me and she's like, James, uh,

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why did you leave that poached eggs and toast in?

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I don't what's what's how's it relevant that story? I

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looked at her, I was talking to her. I said, Patty,

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you don't find that really funny, you know, and it's

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kind of a personal thing. And she's like, yeah, yeah,

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it is funny. Yeah, a good thing you left to do.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was funny. I did notice that.

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But yeah, no, that's great.

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Speaker 3: And you can't not notice that scene in the movie. Yeah,

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that's a right, I mean, it's a real moment. You know,

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you only get a handful of those moments in the film,

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and it's like it's it's relevant, it's personal, it's it's humanizing,

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you know.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I thought I thought there was a

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couple of mic drops, I mean more than a couple,

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and one of them I really really liked hearing from

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was Kirk McConnell. I want to say, And can you

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explain a little bit about him? You know what, he

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was an intelligence officer.

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Speaker 3: Thirty seven years on the hill. He was in multiple

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different clearances or security clearances, and he started in an

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official capacity investigating UFOs on the Hill. But he'd been

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up there for a long time Senate Armed Service Committee

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in a ficial capacity u IT b uf vos from

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twenty seventeen since the New York Times article published the

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secret Pedagon UFO up until twenty twenty four. And I

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guess he was frustrated from the excessive secrecy and lack

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of transparency that was going on, particularly with Sean Kirkpatrick,

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former head of Arrow and len Val Logan was also

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part of the UAP task Force who's in the film

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Called me up. One day I was filming in DC.

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One of the last pickup film projects I was doing.

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He goes, hey, I got a guy I think, I

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think he's willing to come forward, and turned out to

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be Kirk and we couldn't make it work. While I

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was there with the camera crew in DZ long story short,

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he's like, hey, I'll fly up from d C and

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I'll come meet you. And it was like one of

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the last you know, I think maybe I got Richard

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Greeve right after that, but that was the last couple

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of interviews that I got squeezed them into the movie. Yeah,

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and they made a colossal difference.

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Speaker 4: It did.

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Speaker 2: I mean, some of the things he's saying, it's like, what.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you know one of the I kind of

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kicked myself because.

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Speaker 5: He he got to, according to him, sit in in

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a skiff with somewhere between eight and twelve first hand witnesses.

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Speaker 3: Now, everyone criticizes David Grush because he's not a first

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hand witness. These were first hand witnesses with high level credentials,

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really credible, you know, current officials testifying in a skiff

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that yeah, this sub's real. And I was asking him

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on a Reddit thing that we did. The Reddit community

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got together as woman Andre helped put it together. Andrea,

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all the various Reddit communities got together to push for

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government transparency and they featured Len val Logan, myself, and

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Kirk McConnell, a former staff member of the Senate Art

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Service Committee. And I suddenly thought in the middle of it,

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and it was talking about a moment. I said, can

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you put us in that room? What it was like

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when you were sitting in a skiff with the senators

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with a firsthand witness. What did it feel like? What

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were the expressions on the senator's faces? What did you

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feel like? And it's a I highly recommend anybody watching

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this go to my Twitter now x and watch it's

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It's probably somewhat buried at this point we've had a

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lot of activity, but I could be found at James C.

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Fox and I put a two minute segment up there,

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and it's one of the most powerful, one of the

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most powerful moments for me in my thirty years, not

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the most, but certainly the top five of my thirty

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years investigating this stuff, because it really puts you in

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the room with the first hand witness and senators and stuff,

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and the intensity of it in the atmosphere and the

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aftermath trying to process it all. Yeah, you know, it's

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pretty intense stuff.

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Speaker 2: I mean, can you imagine being in that situation and

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hearing what these people are hearing, and then you have

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to keep it to yourself, I mean that or your

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your spouse. So whatever it is, you know, you have

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to just be tight about It must be so difficult.

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Speaker 3: Nobody can really relate to it, because I remember I

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had a similar thing from the outside. He was experiencing

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that on the inside. But when I was investigating, you know,

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a moment of contact when I did the film Moment

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of Contact, and I was investigating this alleged uffo crash

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that happened in nineteen ninety six in Virginia, Brazil. Every

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time I would come back from Brazil, like I would,

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I was just like it was called PTSD, but it

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was profoundly moved by what I was learning. And I

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would come home and a couple of times I started

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talking about it to my friends. You know, I would

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go to an event at my son's soccer whatever. I'm

239
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talking to fellow parents and oh my gosh, you know,

240
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how'd you guys back from Brazil? And I start talking

241
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a little bit, and I could see them looking at

242
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me like I was absolutely nuts, and so I was like, okay,

243
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we all have to put a note to self, don't

244
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talk about this particular case at all. Yeah, wait until

245
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the movie comes out, and then trying to process it myself,

246
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coming to terms of it, because it's such a game changer.

247
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Speaker 2: It changes everything, right, and speaking of Brazil, you're going

248
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to be heading down there in a few days. I

249
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don't know if you can talk about that, but also

250
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if you can talk about anything else as far as

251
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that case goes, the differences that well, you know, I know,

252
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when anyone puts out a movie, all of a sudden

253
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they're contacted by people that are involved. All these new

254
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leads come up, you know, and then you feel like,

255
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oh my god, there should be a part two. A

256
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lot of times you hear about that in books and movies.

257
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So anything breaking or new, and as far as Brazil.

258
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Speaker 3: Goes, so we have Yeah, I'm going it's been on

259
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my list to go back. I mean, I've I've had

260
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a number of leads and it's so funny, like Geords

261
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Napp told me, don't read the comments, you know, on

262
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any of the appearances that you do, And.

263
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Speaker 4: Yeah, sometimes you can't help not bad advice though.

264
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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, for the most part, people are pretty enthusiastic

265
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and supportive, and that's great. You know, all one can

266
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do in the end of the days is try. And

267
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you know, there were a couple of comments people made about, oh,

268
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you know, James said there was ufol there was footage

269
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of the Virginia. Yeah, just because I said I think

270
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,080
it exists. In fact, I'm quite sure that it does

271
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exist because I talked to several doctors that have seen

272
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it that I chase down. Uh, you know, it's very,

273
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very difficult. It's a very difficult situation that the fear

274
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factor is is very real in Brazil. I mean it's

275
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it's it's it's spooky poking around. You know, they're threatening

276
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their own people. So you can imagine a foreigner like

277
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,879
me out there poking around trying to reveal something they

278
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,360
desperately trying to keep secret. It's real, and it's it's

279
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,480
a little it's a little scary, and I'm aware of that.

280
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And but that piece of footage, particularly if we got

281
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:52,639
the providence, would be a massive, unprecedented, game changing event

282
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of the world. Yes, I think so, I mean, I

283
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:57,480
me're not going to believe it no matter what.

284
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Speaker 4: So, yeah, that's right, but if that could be.

285
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Speaker 2: But the footage supposedly is in the hospital of the

286
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being correct.

287
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Speaker 3: Well, there's multiple different yes, but one in particular, yes, yeah,

288
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Humanitas Hospital. I mean the doctors in nineteen ninety six,

289
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:18,840
there were you know, comfortable they owned cameras, right, you know, yeah, yeah,

290
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,200
some of the other service people like you know, the

291
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:26,039
police department and the fire department they had cameras, right,

292
00:15:26,519 --> 00:15:29,879
and then the of course the military had cameras. We've

293
00:15:29,919 --> 00:15:32,000
located a couple of things and we'll see what happens.

294
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But there's another testimony that we're going after as well.

295
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,840
It's not just that. And we've had some developments on

296
00:15:36,879 --> 00:15:38,519
this end, and I don't want to go in too

297
00:15:38,559 --> 00:15:41,360
much detail, but there was a with help with the Gentleman,

298
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,000
we filed a foyer request so long ago that i'd

299
00:15:45,039 --> 00:15:47,360
actually forgotten about. Yeah, it was over two years ago.

300
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Speaker 4: I've heard her people forgetting about him. All of a sudden.

301
00:15:49,559 --> 00:15:53,240
Speaker 3: They showed up yesterday and it's quite telling.

302
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's quite I read it, but I'm betting it

303
00:15:56,679 --> 00:15:57,240
to myself.

304
00:15:57,639 --> 00:15:59,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. It's going to be featured in the

305
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,159
in the director's cut of the new film, and I

306
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,080
talk about a little bit, but essentially from all the

307
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:05,679
people that I've had a look at it say to me,

308
00:16:06,279 --> 00:16:10,440
this is basically, you know, if there was none of

309
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,240
there there, they would have said, there's no there there.

310
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,919
They said, we can't release this because of you know,

311
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,159
national security, blah blah blah. You know. Yeah, so it's

312
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,120
like it basically implying that if we did release this

313
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,000
information to you, and I was asking for the flight

314
00:16:23,039 --> 00:16:27,279
logs coming into a specific spot with specific dates, and

315
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,600
they won't release those flight logs. Yeah, I've been writing

316
00:16:31,639 --> 00:16:32,840
now in the CIA.

317
00:16:33,919 --> 00:16:34,759
Speaker 4: It's pretty awesome.

318
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:35,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty crazy.

319
00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:36,919
Speaker 4: It's kind of chilling to read.

320
00:16:36,919 --> 00:16:38,960
Speaker 3: It's kind of chilling. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

321
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,120
Speaker 2: So I want to just shift gears to talk more

322
00:16:41,159 --> 00:16:43,120
about bits and parts of the film, which I think

323
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,399
is great. But since you've been doing this, you know,

324
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,360
how many films in total about UFOs do we have out.

325
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,559
Speaker 3: That I've done? Yes, so I did. So I never

326
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,759
know quite how to answer that question, because I did

327
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,320
UFOs fifty Years in Denial in the mid nine and

328
00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,320
I finished it around ninety eight, I would guess, And

329
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,440
then I started on out of the Blue in ninety

330
00:17:05,519 --> 00:17:09,480
nine two thousand, and then sold that to I sold.

331
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:14,079
People always ask me, like, when do you know a

332
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,680
documentary's done it. It's usually like you're out of money,

333
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:21,480
you're you're collapsing, you're exhausted. I mean, and I remember

334
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,960
one of my partner's boards was in a fetal position,

335
00:17:24,039 --> 00:17:26,319
crying his wife screaming that you're killing my husband. And

336
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,680
I've been there too, and you know, but it wasn't

337
00:17:29,759 --> 00:17:31,960
quite it wasn't quite where I wanted it to be.

338
00:17:32,079 --> 00:17:34,559
But we were done. Then we were out of gas,

339
00:17:34,599 --> 00:17:36,680
we were out of money, we're out of everything. Just

340
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,759
squeeze dry. And so then so then we sold that

341
00:17:41,799 --> 00:17:47,000
to NBC Universal to decide. Yeah, the sci Fi aired

342
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,039
it because I sold fifty Years of Denial to Discovery

343
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,640
Communications and then aired on the Learning Channel. And then

344
00:17:54,759 --> 00:17:56,759
I got a letter three years later because they bought

345
00:17:56,839 --> 00:17:59,559
like a three year broadcast option. Everything's changed since then,

346
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,000
but a three year broadcast option and that's it. So

347
00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:04,160
it goes to one entity, they do their thing with

348
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,319
it for three years, and then I own it again. Yea.

349
00:18:06,599 --> 00:18:09,000
Nowadays you can put it on all these multiple platforms

350
00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:11,640
and it can go to t Bobs transactional download you

351
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,200
can rent, and then it goes to these other things

352
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,559
where you have ads and there's lots of just so

353
00:18:15,559 --> 00:18:21,680
many more options nowadays. But then I got the rights

354
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,680
back and I was like, you know, this film is

355
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,759
never quite what I wanted it to be. I'm gonna

356
00:18:27,279 --> 00:18:30,119
revisit and I'm going to revamp Out of the Blue,

357
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:31,599
which I spent I think two and a half years

358
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,759
doing wonderful and in the process of that, I got

359
00:18:36,839 --> 00:18:38,920
that director's cut Out of the Blue done. So I

360
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,039
did two versions of Out of the Blue, and then

361
00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:44,640
I did that National Press Club event with Leslie Kane

362
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,799
in two thousand and seven, and I made a two

363
00:18:46,799 --> 00:18:48,559
hour special onto that and that's called I Know What

364
00:18:48,599 --> 00:18:51,880
I Saw. I think I was thirty nine or forty

365
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,400
when I sold that, and then I was like, I

366
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,200
just I need a break from UFOs. I stepped back.

367
00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,920
I did. I did a cool little film in the

368
00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:03,039
E p OL's Bill called Pretty Slick. I needed a break.

369
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:04,799
I just I really remember the break, and in the

370
00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:07,440
back of my mind, I was like, I've tried and

371
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,359
I've kind of failed on every time I try to

372
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,359
do the ultimate feature length documentary film on the topic

373
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,039
of UFOs. And so when I turned forty three, I said,

374
00:19:17,079 --> 00:19:19,960
I'm gonna give it one more crack and that's uh.

375
00:19:20,039 --> 00:19:22,480
And that's when I did the phenomenon.

376
00:19:22,519 --> 00:19:24,519
Speaker 2: It took me eight years, and that was a tough

377
00:19:24,519 --> 00:19:26,960
one to get through. I remember when it was called

378
00:19:27,079 --> 00:19:27,759
seven oh one.

379
00:19:28,319 --> 00:19:30,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had lots of yes, a lot.

380
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 2: Of different yeah, but that was a tough one all

381
00:19:32,519 --> 00:19:35,799
the way through, right right, I feel like it was

382
00:19:35,839 --> 00:19:36,319
a yeah.

383
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:37,880
Speaker 4: I mean, but it was an amazing film.

384
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,200
Speaker 3: And when I finished that one, I was, I remember,

385
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,279
I was, I was, I was staying up. We had

386
00:19:42,279 --> 00:19:45,680
a little loft above my office, like a stair like

387
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:47,599
like literally a steep staircase to go up to a

388
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,720
loft kind of like just loft here. But and uh,

389
00:19:50,799 --> 00:19:53,160
and I had a complete I'd never had one before.

390
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,319
I had a complete and utter meltdown. I mean, basically,

391
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,960
I won't pour your audio into the details of getting

392
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,599
the film complete was an absolute nightmare. Like just some

393
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,160
reason like as closer you get to the finishing line,

394
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,680
it becomes exponentially more difficult. And then there were all

395
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,559
sorts of other factors that were coming into play. And

396
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,480
then I got the film done and then because of

397
00:20:14,519 --> 00:20:19,000
another whole series of issues, I was getting contacted by

398
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,279
a distributor because we're we're getting threatened to sue because

399
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,799
we had done a deal with Netflix. But then the

400
00:20:24,839 --> 00:20:27,839
next Flix deal fell through because it was during the

401
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,000
you know, the height of like you know, the pandemic

402
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,960
had hit, and all the previous deals that we had

403
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,119
fell through because we were gonna have a theatrical distribution,

404
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,200
and all these things happened. So suddenly, like all these

405
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,440
things fell through and under the cloud of COVID and

406
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,839
stakes were made. And then basically I remember my distributor going,

407
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,559
you know, we might have to just shelve this movie

408
00:20:48,599 --> 00:20:51,319
because it's kind of a liability. Right now. This guy

409
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,039
is saying he's going to sue unless he gets this.

410
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,640
Netflix is pissed off, and you guys are going after Discovery,

411
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,519
and oh my god, I just like I just lost it, thinking,

412
00:20:59,599 --> 00:21:03,240
like I did my dream movie. It's the movie that

413
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,400
I've always set out to do, that I spent twenty

414
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,559
five thirty whatever twenty five years to accomplish, and it's

415
00:21:09,559 --> 00:21:11,759
probably not going to see the light of day, or

416
00:21:11,759 --> 00:21:13,359
it could not see the light of day, and I

417
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,920
just hit my breaking point, you know. And and on

418
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,039
top of that, I had gone back and forth to

419
00:21:19,079 --> 00:21:22,359
Brazil over a twelve year period investigating this let's crash

420
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,799
case that happened in ninety six, and I and I

421
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,599
ended up cutting all that out of the phenomenon, right,

422
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,319
So anyway at the phenomena, Yeah, sorry, yeah, that's right.

423
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:33,799
Speaker 2: I remember you. You're saying you had to cut it

424
00:21:33,839 --> 00:21:35,200
out to make it standalone.

425
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did that. And then and then I set

426
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,839
my sights on on I'm rambling, but I set my

427
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,079
sights on that case and made a whole movie on

428
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,319
a moment of contact. Yeah. And then now I naturally, okay,

429
00:21:47,559 --> 00:21:50,279
I learned that the US was involved in the possible

430
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:56,400
retrieval of some of those materials bodies from Virginia in

431
00:21:56,559 --> 00:22:00,039
nineteen ninety six because one of the Brazilian authority, he

432
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,920
is the flight control officer radar that monitors all the

433
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,039
incoming flights in a particular region came clean, came forward

434
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,319
on a podcast on camera, So like, yeah, I watched

435
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,000
the flight come in and they didn't have Brazilian government

436
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,519
authorization to land, and I was like USAF. He kept saying, USAF,

437
00:22:18,559 --> 00:22:20,960
it's the United States Air Force. This plane came in

438
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:22,400
on the twentieth of I think he said it was

439
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:27,839
the twentieth of January nineteen ninety six. And then and

440
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,400
then this higher up came in the room and said,

441
00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:33,000
let the plane land. So now I've got the connection

442
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,119
with the United States. I'd heard it rumor, but now

443
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,400
I had a pretty solid, pretty solid information that the

444
00:22:38,519 --> 00:22:42,880
US was involved. And so naturally, going into the program,

445
00:22:43,519 --> 00:22:46,920
I was probably five months. After five months, I would

446
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,839
have never guessed, five months after the release a moment

447
00:22:50,839 --> 00:22:54,599
of contact that a high level intelligence officer David Crush

448
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,039
would testify under oath to a bipartisan group of lawmakers

449
00:22:58,039 --> 00:23:01,640
that there's a crash reteoval program biologics. I would have

450
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,039
never seen that one coming because I really feel like,

451
00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:05,920
in some respects moment of contact might have been a

452
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,480
little head of its time. Maybe people were quite ready

453
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,240
for it. Yeah, you know. And so so naturally that

454
00:23:12,319 --> 00:23:15,880
opened the door for me investigating the program, right because

455
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,599
I was gonna I wanted to go to Washington, DC

456
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,240
and find out what we could uncover about this so

457
00:23:22,319 --> 00:23:26,200
called craft fuel program, and David Grusha opened the door

458
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,720
for me. So it was it was just like divine intervenal.

459
00:23:28,759 --> 00:23:30,680
I mean, it was just it was a miracle. Yeah,

460
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,920
it happened. I remember when I was watching it live.

461
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,720
I was sitting right over here and the other on

462
00:23:34,759 --> 00:23:37,000
the other side of the barn, and my son was

463
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,880
trying to get me to come outside and play with him.

464
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:41,960
And it was one of the only times I ever

465
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,359
looked at him and I just said not now. And

466
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,680
I had. I had tears just streaming down my face

467
00:23:48,759 --> 00:23:51,680
as I was all this weight off my shoulders because

468
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,119
being laughed at and ridly cooled, and I thought, this

469
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,839
is coming out. Wow. Yeah, I can't believe this moment

470
00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,640
is happening. I never thought I'd live to see it

471
00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:00,839
of me neither.

472
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 4: That was kind of a shock, the whole thing going

473
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,680
through that. So, how let's talk a little bit about you.

474
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,839
Speaker 3: So how many dogs? How many dogs? Is that? That's

475
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:10,960
like six and a half?

476
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, just like I didn't get the number?

477
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah you remember, no, no know what you know out

478
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:16,680
of the blue?

479
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,559
Speaker 3: Is that two versus? It's definitely two versis Yeah? Does

480
00:24:19,599 --> 00:24:22,079
that really counted? Is the half of it? What is? Yeah?

481
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 2: Anyway, but your yourself, I guess I want to ask you,

482
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,000
how has this this road you have taken affected your

483
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,240
you know, your development in your your life these days.

484
00:24:34,279 --> 00:24:36,200
I mean for myself, I can talk real quickly that

485
00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:41,039
since I've started to look into this, you know, in

486
00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:44,240
this whole phenomenon, I think it's a it's been a

487
00:24:44,319 --> 00:24:46,680
really it's been a gift to me in many many ways.

488
00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:50,680
But it also you know, it's also we get these

489
00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:54,359
you know, situations where you know, people ridicule you know,

490
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,119
they think this is you're crazy for looking into this.

491
00:24:57,519 --> 00:25:01,200
I I think I lost a really h good, really

492
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,200
good job that I had because of looking into this topic.

493
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,480
But I mean it all worked out great. I'm glad

494
00:25:07,519 --> 00:25:09,640
it worked out that way. I much rather work for

495
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,680
myself anyway. But I mean, how has this affected you

496
00:25:12,759 --> 00:25:15,519
and changed your life going down this road that you've

497
00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:16,000
gone down?

498
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:27,599
Speaker 3: You know, I get online criticism, you know now, and

499
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,920
it's about you know, being called a grifter and all

500
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,079
these things, and not a lot of it, but some

501
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,839
of it, you know, and you know there's a part

502
00:25:34,839 --> 00:25:36,559
of you, that part of me that just goes, this

503
00:25:36,599 --> 00:25:39,359
guy has no idea what I've been through just trying

504
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,000
to get to the bottom of this. I mean, to me,

505
00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:44,279
it's a personal. It's a personal investigation. I just happen

506
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,079
to share my results of my research publicly with my films. Right,

507
00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:50,480
I bring a camera with me and I document. I'm

508
00:25:50,519 --> 00:25:52,839
just a very curious person by nature, and I and

509
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,559
I want to get to the bottom of something. I'm

510
00:25:54,599 --> 00:25:56,640
coming to the I'm coming to the realization I'm probably

511
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,680
never going to get to the bottom of it. But

512
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,000
but I have to laugh now because I'm going I

513
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,359
had so much criticism for so long in my life,

514
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,680
like ridiculed, laughed at, made fun of. I remember I

515
00:26:10,759 --> 00:26:12,720
would go to like cocktail parties and I would ask

516
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,519
people do me a favor, you know, and don't tell

517
00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:17,480
people what I do because initially I was kind of

518
00:26:17,519 --> 00:26:19,880
excited about it, but then I just felt under attack

519
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:21,599
and I would spend the whole night just having to

520
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,279
defend my position. Really, quite honestly, in the day, I

521
00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:26,680
had no interest in doing that anymore. So now I

522
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,880
get criticism, and like it's kind of like water off

523
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,519
a duck's back, because I'm like, yeah, you think this

524
00:26:31,559 --> 00:26:33,359
is criticism. You should have seen what I've been through

525
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,680
in the nineties in early two thousand.

526
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 2: I'm sure you get this one. Because I always get it.

527
00:26:38,319 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 4: So you believe in UFO.

528
00:26:40,039 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 3: No, you're a believer. Yeah, you're a believer. Yeah. I

529
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,039
think to myself, it's not a question of believing. It's

530
00:26:46,079 --> 00:26:49,200
more like you either know about the phenomenon or you don't.

531
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,519
Speaker 4: And then and then the question is what are they?

532
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,799
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, not if you believe, I mean

533
00:26:53,839 --> 00:26:56,640
they're Yeah, they're obviously unidentified.

534
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 3: Anytime I see anybody, I saw Tucker Carlson talking about

535
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,519
it with Michael Schallenberger I think today online, and Tucker's like, oh,

536
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,000
I know what they are. They're not extraterrestrial, they're you know.

537
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,200
And I got no beef with Tucker, But I'm like, Tucker,

538
00:27:12,759 --> 00:27:15,039
you can't make any of those definitive statements. I've been

539
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:17,480
researching this all around the world for thirty years, and

540
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:19,440
I have no idea where they come from. Yeah, I

541
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,079
think it could be all the above. Could be interdimensional,

542
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,400
it could be time travelers, could be us in the

543
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,880
who the hell? There could be some inter it could

544
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,839
be some I mean look at the Betty in Barney

545
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,039
Hill case. Yeah, I said they're from a particular star consolation.

546
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:37,720
Maybe just maybe they're interplanetary. Maybe they were interplanetary. Maybe

547
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,400
there's some that's time travelers, maybe some are already here,

548
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,119
maybe some you know what I mean, why not it

549
00:27:43,279 --> 00:27:47,240
be all of those answers. I'm just saying, I don't know. Yeah,

550
00:27:47,319 --> 00:27:48,079
i'd like to know.

551
00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And here's a question I ask a lot of people.

552
00:27:53,559 --> 00:27:55,920
My own position is that I don't think the government

553
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,359
really knows the whole picture. What is your opinion on that.

554
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,599
Speaker 3: I would have to believe that, Yeah, I would have

555
00:28:01,599 --> 00:28:03,799
to believe that. I mean, obviously they've got dividendive proof

556
00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:06,440
that you know that they're real. They've got all the

557
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,160
sensory data they've got, they've got recovery wreckage, they've got bodies.

558
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,119
I'm convinced, But that doesn't mean they have all the answers.

559
00:28:14,599 --> 00:28:16,279
As in fact, I was talking to an individual the

560
00:28:16,319 --> 00:28:19,480
other day who remain nameless, someone that I would say

561
00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:24,559
would be in a position to know, and this individual

562
00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:27,799
said to me that they were quite certain that there

563
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,359
was about twenty people that had a bigger picture idea

564
00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:33,000
of what was going on, like a big picture, the

565
00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:36,400
bigger picture, not like they understand all of the complexities

566
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,000
to the phenomenon, but the bigger picture. And then it

567
00:28:39,079 --> 00:28:39,880
was a little scary.

568
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,759
Speaker 2: But do they have a legacy type of situation where

569
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,279
to be passed down.

570
00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 4: People retire and die.

571
00:28:48,279 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you know, so that always made me

572
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,440
wonder about all the way back from Roswell, you know, era,

573
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,920
to hear what happens to these little secrets. Yeah, as

574
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,480
they generationally move forward.

575
00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 3: You know, I heard that the nineteen fifty three Kingman

576
00:29:06,519 --> 00:29:10,559
Arizona UFO would get taken out every ten years and

577
00:29:10,599 --> 00:29:13,119
see if technology the scientists had gotten caught up with

578
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,799
it yet. They sort of take it out, dust it off,

579
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,279
have a new bunch of scientists, take a look at it,

580
00:29:18,279 --> 00:29:20,839
scratch our heads, put it back in there for another

581
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,240
ten years, bring it back out again. You know.

582
00:29:23,599 --> 00:29:27,079
Speaker 4: Now they have AI. Yeah, yeah, you know, and that'll

583
00:29:27,079 --> 00:29:27,200
do it.

584
00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:29,799
Speaker 3: And then I remember somebody saying, yeah, it was like

585
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,880
it was like they just landed and walked away. I

586
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,279
was like, well, how do you know they landed and

587
00:29:35,319 --> 00:29:38,039
walked away. How do you know that? Yeah? Well, because

588
00:29:39,359 --> 00:29:44,319
there was the object was empty, there was nobody in it,

589
00:29:44,319 --> 00:29:47,640
it didn't crash, it was a controlled landing and the

590
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,079
doors were open. Well, okay, you.

591
00:29:51,119 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 4: Can sort of assume, but maybe not so would.

592
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,279
Speaker 3: That have been a gift. Did the nineteen fifty three Kingman,

593
00:29:56,319 --> 00:29:58,440
Arizona case? Did it just like, was it a gift?

594
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,359
Have they figured it out? I have no idea. I

595
00:30:02,359 --> 00:30:02,680
don't know.

596
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: And there's controversy about that case if I remember right,

597
00:30:06,079 --> 00:30:06,599
whether it's.

598
00:30:06,519 --> 00:30:11,039
Speaker 3: Controversy about every case. Yeah, yeah, that's there's no case

599
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,440
crash case is not controversial. Yeah, when you're talking about

600
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,000
a crash, retreevile or live aliens or dead aliens or

601
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,240
whatever or technology, how could that not be controversial. You

602
00:30:20,319 --> 00:30:22,839
can't make that big of a claim without having like

603
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,759
that's why you have to allegedly theoretically you know this

604
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:27,319
kind of thing.

605
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sorry, no, No, Well, since we're on the

606
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,200
topic of controversial, Uh, let's talk a little bit about

607
00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:36,000
Jason Sands, because I think if there's any part of

608
00:30:36,039 --> 00:30:39,480
your documentary that people have been saying there's a little

609
00:30:39,519 --> 00:30:42,920
controversial is about Jason Sands. So can we talk a

610
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:43,720
little bit about that?

611
00:30:43,759 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 3: What do you Okay, Well, we'll talk about I'll talk

612
00:30:45,759 --> 00:30:47,680
about his encounter that, I'll talk about some other things

613
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,599
about him as okay, Because.

614
00:30:49,519 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 4: I know you have some pictures to.

615
00:30:50,599 --> 00:30:53,079
Speaker 3: Show, Yeah, I do. I could show you I did

616
00:30:53,119 --> 00:30:55,319
bring so, and I also brought a statement. So I'll

617
00:30:55,319 --> 00:30:57,279
start off with what I start off with what I

618
00:30:57,359 --> 00:31:00,799
know and see, I don't know how well you can

619
00:31:00,799 --> 00:31:02,680
see this and you can see that well, yep, I

620
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,359
can see a perfect is at Nelly's test range in

621
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:12,759
nineteen ninety three, ninety fourthing like that. Yep. Okay, we

622
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:18,160
got another one here. There's Jason Sands right there. Yep,

623
00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:24,440
we got another one here. I've got his his wife

624
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,039
covered up because she requested, oh I see, yeah, that's

625
00:31:27,039 --> 00:31:29,480
why I did. I just put that over her face

626
00:31:29,519 --> 00:31:33,000
because she said, please promise me you won't reveal my identity.

627
00:31:33,079 --> 00:31:35,720
I said, okay, no problem, I'll cover you up. She

628
00:31:35,759 --> 00:31:42,799
gave me promise. And there's another one here, Jason Sands

629
00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:52,279
right here. Yeah. And then I have this. And this

630
00:31:52,359 --> 00:31:55,519
is from a congressional source that I met face to

631
00:31:55,559 --> 00:31:59,720
face with on a couple of occasions, from a congressional

632
00:31:59,759 --> 00:32:02,519
source who was aware of his testimony. Mister Sands testified

633
00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:07,880
to three congressional committees and arrow as a whistleblower. His

634
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:13,319
military and intelligence community background clearances and assignments were fully vetted.

635
00:32:14,119 --> 00:32:17,519
We were, not, however, able to validate some of the

636
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:23,559
details of his extraordinary testimony. However, mister sands testimony provided

637
00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:28,480
significant new insights that were later validated by multiple witnesses.

638
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:39,960
Now I mister Sands makes an extraordinary claim. I remember

639
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:44,160
working on my first UFO documentary in the mid nineties

640
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,680
when I don't remember which sort of tabloid ETV show

641
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:53,000
it was Inside Edition, maybe I'm not sure, and there

642
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,359
was leak UFO footage from Nelli's Test Range with the

643
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,200
voices of the individual was talking about this UFO that

644
00:33:02,319 --> 00:33:04,079
was on the base. It was filmed on the base

645
00:33:04,119 --> 00:33:06,960
from all the multiple censers at Nellis Test Range in

646
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,680
the winter of nineteen ninety four, and I remember that

647
00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:14,480
I almost featured at one of my dogs. According to

648
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,720
Jason Sands, three days later, he was in a convoy

649
00:33:19,759 --> 00:33:22,079
with a number of individuals we have their names first

650
00:33:22,079 --> 00:33:26,640
and last. There was two three trucks, three Blazers, Chemi Blazers,

651
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,640
Camo Blazers, and I think there was three or four

652
00:33:29,759 --> 00:33:31,720
in the first truck, a couple in the second truck,

653
00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:33,839
and a couple in the third and the third truck.

654
00:33:34,599 --> 00:33:37,720
And it was early early in the morning, wintertime, very cold,

655
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,599
and they were driving up to a place called Quartz

656
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,079
I think it was Quartz Mountain, and they were within

657
00:33:44,119 --> 00:33:48,000
the Nellis Test Range, so the Ron military area, you know,

658
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,519
the civilians can't get to. And according to mister Sands,

659
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:56,119
he claims that they saw an individual on the side

660
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,160
of the road that looked like he was wearing a

661
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:05,039
similar outfit as theirs military gear, that looked like in

662
00:34:05,079 --> 00:34:06,839
distress and needed help.

663
00:34:07,799 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 4: Walking funny, right.

664
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 3: Walking funny, trying to run, running awkward, almost like there

665
00:34:12,039 --> 00:34:14,960
was going to fall over. There was just something odd

666
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,440
and they thought maybe it was like a plane crash

667
00:34:17,599 --> 00:34:21,239
or something happened. This individual needed help. And as they

668
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,639
get a little closer, he looked like he had a

669
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:25,760
little slight blue tint to his skin. Maybe he was

670
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,960
like suffering from hypothermia, you know, he wasn't They weren't

671
00:34:29,039 --> 00:34:32,039
entirely sure. And when they came up on him on

672
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:36,039
this individual, the guy in the passenger's seat we have

673
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,960
that individual's name first and last, actually got in touch

674
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,000
with them. He screams, he's got no ef in ears.

675
00:34:44,079 --> 00:34:47,239
Jason was on sitting behind the driver in the back

676
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,920
seat of the Chevy Blazer, and he gets out the

677
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,119
passenger door and he's thinking to himself, this guy is

678
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:56,440
in dire need of medical attention, and you're going to

679
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,480
make fun of his birth effect of no ears, like

680
00:34:59,519 --> 00:35:01,440
what kind of person are you? Kind of thing, And

681
00:35:01,639 --> 00:35:03,000
he's getting out of the back and he said he's

682
00:35:03,039 --> 00:35:04,639
taking his jacket off because he's going to give the

683
00:35:04,679 --> 00:35:09,320
guy some warmth. It was very cold. And then that's

684
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,679
when he locked eyes on this individual, and he said

685
00:35:11,679 --> 00:35:15,400
it was almost like a snake bite, like like shocking,

686
00:35:16,039 --> 00:35:19,079
like this person is is this a mutant? Is this?

687
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,679
What is this? This is not a human that I'm

688
00:35:21,679 --> 00:35:25,000
familiar with. The eyes were really really big, The ears

689
00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:27,039
were all the lobes, everything was on the inside. This

690
00:35:27,119 --> 00:35:29,639
was clean cut, and the eyes were really really big.

691
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,079
And he starts speaking some sort of gibberish almost like

692
00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:38,559
like like Swedish or something, some Scandinavian, but.

693
00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 4: Somehow he was understanding the words.

694
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 3: But he said, according to Jason Sands, that he could

695
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,119
understand everything that the guy was saying. He's looking for

696
00:35:45,159 --> 00:35:52,360
some type of mental tantillium or something. And he said

697
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,920
that another thing he noticed was that his out his

698
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,480
army fatigues running through the desert should have dust and

699
00:36:00,519 --> 00:36:02,559
dirt all over them, but they didn't have a speck anywhere.

700
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 4: That is even such bizarre part of that story.

701
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:11,159
Speaker 3: The bizarre part of the story exactly. Anyway, I wrestled

702
00:36:11,199 --> 00:36:15,320
with this story for sometime. First of all, you know,

703
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:23,039
I am I probably took uh you know. The Phenomenon

704
00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:26,480
was the first documentary that I ever actually covered alleged

705
00:36:26,519 --> 00:36:29,159
closing encounters of the third kind, right. I always felt

706
00:36:29,159 --> 00:36:31,679
like it was a bit of a slippery slope. I mean,

707
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,760
that's a tall order you're going to talk about, you know,

708
00:36:34,679 --> 00:36:36,760
I'm sure everyone out there knows. Close encounter of the

709
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:41,039
third kind is when the witness claims to see entities, beans, aliens,

710
00:36:41,079 --> 00:36:43,760
whatever you want to call them, connected to the spacecraft

711
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,039
or you know, because you got close. Kind of the

712
00:36:46,039 --> 00:36:48,400
first kind, somebody claiming to see a UFO second kind

713
00:36:48,519 --> 00:36:51,760
interferes with the or interacts with the environment. And Richard

714
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,880
Dryfer's dryver is his case, and close kind of the

715
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,280
third kind is when he burned his face and marks

716
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:02,159
on the ground whatever. So third kindness is entities. And

717
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,599
I covered a couple of those cases. I covered Zekoro,

718
00:37:04,679 --> 00:37:08,199
I covered Rua, I covered Virginia, I covered the case

719
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,760
in off the coast of Australia, Papua New Guinea with

720
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,920
the father father Gili like fifty eight or something oway

721
00:37:19,519 --> 00:37:22,519
and the landing case in Australia wasn't quite a closing

722
00:37:22,519 --> 00:37:24,079
out of the third kind. However, some way this has

723
00:37:24,119 --> 00:37:26,039
came forward and said that might have happened. But that's

724
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:32,159
that's that's another story. So I only have his his testimony.

725
00:37:32,199 --> 00:37:34,800
We have the leaked video from three days prior on

726
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,719
the base. His credentials checked out. I mean I talked

727
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,679
to everybody I possibly could within the Intel about this

728
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,760
individual's credent, his credentials. I got his military records print,

729
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,559
you know over over there, and I went through all

730
00:37:46,559 --> 00:37:50,360
of that, and I remember because you know, some people

731
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,280
were like, you know, he's got PTSD and he's got

732
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,239
some issues. There's no question of that exposure to things

733
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,519
that he's done in his life. And uh, but by

734
00:37:59,519 --> 00:38:01,679
his story, you know, everything else checks out. I mean,

735
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,280
he's named even like this one individual said, you know,

736
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,639
I got in trouble just for asking about the program

737
00:38:07,639 --> 00:38:11,159
that he knew the name of. You know this he

738
00:38:11,159 --> 00:38:14,079
he checks out like he is who he says he is,

739
00:38:14,079 --> 00:38:15,760
and he was where he says he was. So I

740
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,480
remember I was feeling really frustrated and and and uh,

741
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:24,360
I finally got this. We found uh the individual that

742
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,880
allegedly debriefed all the military people after the alleged encounter.

743
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,360
That individual would not confirm or deny were I think.

744
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,360
I think the way they phrased it is, we're aware

745
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,480
of the incident, but we're now you know, wouldn't confirm

746
00:38:36,559 --> 00:38:39,000
or deny, not even hon or off the record, there's nothing.

747
00:38:40,119 --> 00:38:43,320
So I was really frustrated, and I remember saying, Okay,

748
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,559
I literally said, well, do you I talked to a

749
00:38:47,599 --> 00:38:49,760
couple of boys. Do you think this happened? Or do

750
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,159
you think it? What do you think? People that I trusted,

751
00:38:53,519 --> 00:38:56,280
and they were like, well, despite his PTSD and despite

752
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,480
some of his other claims, we think it happened. I

753
00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:01,519
was like, okay, well I'm going to feature this. I'm

754
00:39:01,519 --> 00:39:04,599
going to feature it, but what about the people that

755
00:39:04,639 --> 00:39:10,960
were with him? Have I okay? So, uh, I I'd

756
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,639
be careful how I say this. But we did reach out.

757
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,960
We did reach out to one started a correspondence and

758
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,039
as soon as we mentioned the encounter, ghosted ye. It's like, hey,

759
00:39:22,039 --> 00:39:24,000
how you doing a long time to see blah blah blah.

760
00:39:24,039 --> 00:39:27,159
Hey do you remember the blah blah blah blah? You know, gone,

761
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,079
that was it, And then I have other names and

762
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,079
it's an ongoing thing, so we'll see. Yeah, I mean,

763
00:39:33,119 --> 00:39:35,800
I'd love. I'd love because we have it. We have

764
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,920
we have a location, we have a rough roughly a date,

765
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,519
we can get the exact date, and and we have

766
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,239
some names first and last.

767
00:39:46,159 --> 00:39:49,639
Speaker 2: So you know the crazy thing about his uniform, just

768
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,320
wearing a uniform like theirs.

769
00:39:51,559 --> 00:39:53,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, uh, you.

770
00:39:53,039 --> 00:39:56,519
Speaker 2: Know, I don't know why, but to me, when a

771
00:39:56,599 --> 00:40:00,519
story is bizarre like that, it almost gives more ability

772
00:40:00,599 --> 00:40:03,760
to the story. Then you know, a weird detail to

773
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,840
make up. Yeah, I mean it's a weird detail. Why

774
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:06,760
would you make that up?

775
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 3: There?

776
00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 4: So bizarre and so I like those type of stories.

777
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 3: Two other things I thought about too, uh and Jason

778
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,639
sands it it's it's a long complicated story. He had

779
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:23,000
gone on a couple of Uh, I don't know X.

780
00:40:23,599 --> 00:40:26,760
What was you? What do you? It's like a joining

781
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,920
a group on X saying making some other spaces I

782
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,599
think they call Yeah, the space is making some one

783
00:40:32,679 --> 00:40:34,800
or two really kind of outliners claims. And I remember

784
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,159
calling up going like even in the zero zero, zero

785
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,559
one percent chance that that is true, Like, that's the

786
00:40:41,559 --> 00:40:44,360
most discrediting thing. I think, like, you can't, what do

787
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,119
you Anyway, I was exprestraated, but I was like, you know,

788
00:40:47,199 --> 00:40:49,039
I was the one that blues covered by accident, Like

789
00:40:49,079 --> 00:40:50,280
I'm the one that I heard about it.

790
00:40:50,599 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 4: It was actually the storyboard like behind you.

791
00:40:52,519 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 3: It was a little clipboard and it was in the

792
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,719
shot of behind the scenes and had his name written

793
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,280
on it, and if you zoomed in, yeah you see name.

794
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:01,840
And so I kind of booze covered. I felt bad

795
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,400
about it because he had he hadn't gone through the

796
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,719
dobster process. He wasn't thinking about going to public like

797
00:41:07,039 --> 00:41:08,519
you know, with his name and everything else. It was

798
00:41:08,639 --> 00:41:10,559
I'm sure he was ready for that, and that kind

799
00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:13,199
of accelerated that whole process. But I remember thinking about

800
00:41:13,199 --> 00:41:18,440
a couple of things. One is I met Robert Bigelow,

801
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,880
and it was right after the letter I showed you

802
00:41:23,199 --> 00:41:26,960
Steven Spielberg from two thousand and nine. Yeah, so I

803
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,239
that film kind of probably came out in late two

804
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:36,079
thousand and nine. I know what I saw, and I

805
00:41:36,119 --> 00:41:37,880
got an email which I could show you. I still

806
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,400
have it. I got an email from Robert Bigelow's secretary

807
00:41:41,639 --> 00:41:44,599
and she said, mister Fox, got a message from Robert Bigelow,

808
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,840
wants to congratulate you on your movie. A job well done.

809
00:41:49,639 --> 00:41:54,159
And I thought, wow, I heard about Bigeloa. Oh wow,

810
00:41:54,199 --> 00:41:56,840
bigelo And so we ended up getting together at his

811
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,480
house in Las Vegas. And this was like probably late

812
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,599
two thousand and nine, maybe two thousand and dan an

813
00:42:03,639 --> 00:42:08,679
exact date. And so I went to his home that

814
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,800
it was with my sister, and we had lunch and

815
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,119
he talked about two things that really kind of stuck

816
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:21,079
in my head. One was the politics of disclosure. And

817
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:23,480
he was like, yeah, we've done the study, and you know,

818
00:42:24,079 --> 00:42:26,559
we made the determination after a year or two years

819
00:42:26,599 --> 00:42:28,880
or whatever it was, that it would have this impact

820
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,760
on organized religion, it would have an impact on financial institutions.

821
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,639
And he literally said, take all the scandals you ever

822
00:42:35,679 --> 00:42:38,840
heard in life, and multiply that by a thousand or

823
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,039
a million or whatever, and that is what we think

824
00:42:42,119 --> 00:42:44,280
the impact that this story is going to have on

825
00:42:44,679 --> 00:42:47,719
the human race. I'm not so sure I agree with that,

826
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:53,599
but whatever. And then he said, and they're walking among us,

827
00:42:54,079 --> 00:43:00,280
and I said, I'm sorry, I'm not sure, do you

828
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,719
what do you mean? And he said, they're walking among us.

829
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,400
They're walking among us. Well, I'm sorry, what do you

830
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,519
mean by that? And he goes, I mean exactly that

831
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:15,519
they're walking among us. Now, I certainly wasn't ready for

832
00:43:15,559 --> 00:43:18,239
that information back in two thousand and nine, you know,

833
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,320
I hadn't covered any close accounts of the third kind.

834
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,880
I'd heard about them, obviously, I'd heard about abductions and

835
00:43:23,079 --> 00:43:26,639
d D, but I'd always steered clear. I thought, Eh,

836
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,639
I wasn't ready for it, but I but I did.

837
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,559
I did have to say that, you know, this guy's

838
00:43:32,599 --> 00:43:36,599
put more investment, you know, the you know hired you know,

839
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,039
nids and all the intellectual heavyweights and scientific community and

840
00:43:40,159 --> 00:43:42,800
all his studies and the contracts with government and da

841
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,199
da da da, da da da. I guess he would

842
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,000
be in a position to know if it were true.

843
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,679
I can't just believe it because it's him telling me that.

844
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,039
But then I also thought about, you know, when I

845
00:43:54,079 --> 00:43:57,320
got together with Gary McKinnon, and Gary McKinnon was considered

846
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,880
to be one of the biggest computer hackers in the

847
00:44:00,159 --> 00:44:02,000
history of you know, and he was just trying to

848
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,559
find out UFO secrets and got caught and nearly went

849
00:44:04,599 --> 00:44:06,679
to jail for the rest of his life. If he

850
00:44:06,679 --> 00:44:09,079
would be in America, he's going to be extra. Died

851
00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:11,599
from England. And one of the two things he said

852
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:17,000
was one he found a list of non terrestrial officers.

853
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,559
That's what he said. Wow, back in late nineties, early

854
00:44:20,599 --> 00:44:23,800
two thousands, whatever the year, that was very at least

855
00:44:24,039 --> 00:44:26,760
at least twenty years ago. At least twenty years ago.

856
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,480
He's like, yeah, I found this lace. I saw this object.

857
00:44:29,519 --> 00:44:31,960
It was a cigar shaped hit this bubble. Well it

858
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,800
was floating in the atmosphere, really good resolution, no rivets,

859
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,360
you know, all that stuff. And then he said, yeah,

860
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,400
I found this list of non terrestrial officers. And it's like, yeah,

861
00:44:41,559 --> 00:44:45,599
I guess one could argue that that could be astronauts,

862
00:44:45,639 --> 00:44:48,360
I guess, but it's weird to call them non terrestrial officers.

863
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,559
I've never heard that reference in it before, but it

864
00:44:50,639 --> 00:44:54,760
just got me thinking because I remember time and time

865
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:59,960
again like this. The phenomenon's pretty pretty crazy. It's pretty

866
00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:03,519
out there. And you know, just because I hear something

867
00:45:03,559 --> 00:45:06,280
and I've learned this from thirty years, it's like, you know,

868
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,480
you have that knee jerk reaction of this can't possibly

869
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:15,360
be true, therefore it isn't. Yeah, I've just excuse me.

870
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,920
I've learned to suspend judgment and go, okay, I'll listen

871
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:20,159
to this.

872
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:25,039
Speaker 2: And yeah, now I remember when he was I remember

873
00:45:25,039 --> 00:45:28,559
hearing about him hacking, you know, those many years ago,

874
00:45:28,679 --> 00:45:33,880
huge before it was dial up and you know the

875
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,559
way it was dial up, how he got he did

876
00:45:36,559 --> 00:45:39,519
it with dialog all the way back then. And you know,

877
00:45:39,519 --> 00:45:42,079
I'm just amazing, but I had never heard because I

878
00:45:42,119 --> 00:45:44,639
wasn't really paying much attention to the UFO world. Yeah,

879
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,320
I just had heard that he had done it and

880
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,639
that he was, you know, likely news. Yeah, most likely

881
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,199
going to be extradited.

882
00:45:51,639 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 3: And yeah, it was like sixty years in prison or.

883
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 2: Something something like that. Was it s it was espionage

884
00:45:58,360 --> 00:45:59,719
or what was the charge.

885
00:46:00,039 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 3: Where he told me he said he knew that he'd

886
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,599
been caught when he was in one of the insistants

887
00:46:06,599 --> 00:46:10,079
at Johnston'space Center and he was downloading that image, the

888
00:46:10,119 --> 00:46:12,239
image of the Firth and yeah, and the and the

889
00:46:13,199 --> 00:46:15,440
cigar shaped craft and he said he saw the cursor

890
00:46:15,519 --> 00:46:19,800
move and then the screen, you know, and he was

891
00:46:20,079 --> 00:46:22,480
he was it was my Eureka moment, but also that

892
00:46:22,519 --> 00:46:27,760
moment where I've been caught and I think it was

893
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,719
a couple months later he woke up in the morning

894
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,559
in London with men in suits over his bed, talk

895
00:46:34,599 --> 00:46:39,239
about spooky, and that was it. Maybe just you know, yeah,

896
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:40,880
imagine waking up with there in your.

897
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:45,519
Speaker 2: House and then you know here that he can't go

898
00:46:45,559 --> 00:46:47,679
out of the k yeah, for the rest of his

899
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,880
life basically, which is really something.

900
00:46:50,159 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

901
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:52,559
Speaker 4: So one of the things you.

902
00:46:52,519 --> 00:46:56,760
Speaker 3: Shouldet a pardon. Yeah. One of the is he didn't

903
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:57,719
do anybody in any harm.

904
00:46:58,280 --> 00:46:59,639
Speaker 2: I know this is kind of still, but one of

905
00:46:59,639 --> 00:47:04,639
the things I really love about your documentaries is the narrator,

906
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:08,000
Peter his his. I wish he could tell me bed

907
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:09,039
time stories.

908
00:47:09,039 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, you know, next time, I actually know

909
00:47:13,519 --> 00:47:15,840
what I'm gonna do. I'm so glad you made me

910
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,920
think of this. The next time I get him to

911
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,000
narrate a movie, I'm gonna get him. Hey, on the side,

912
00:47:20,039 --> 00:47:21,599
can you just say how you reached the voice will

913
00:47:21,639 --> 00:47:24,079
of James? But please?

914
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:26,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah you should do that.

915
00:47:26,639 --> 00:47:29,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, more creative and fun than that.

916
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,639
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to live out

917
00:47:32,679 --> 00:47:33,599
near Marin County.

918
00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:38,039
Speaker 2: He lives there, right, yeah, yeah, somewhere out there, remember

919
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:39,119
hearing a move.

920
00:47:39,199 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 3: He used to live either in Sauce Alito or Mill

921
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,519
Valley or something. Right now he's out like uh sebastable

922
00:47:44,639 --> 00:47:47,159
or something. Oh yeah, yeah he relocated.

923
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I didn't I did want to say this

924
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,840
that uh And I know we talked about it earlier

925
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,519
before the show, but I really feel so sorry for

926
00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:58,760
the poor people out in California, and many of them

927
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,039
have been on the show that have had, you know,

928
00:48:01,159 --> 00:48:02,159
terrible situations.

929
00:48:02,159 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 4: It's just a terrible.

930
00:48:03,039 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 3: Thing ongoing on. I know, unimaginable, Yeah, unimaginable, like unimaginable.

931
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,360
You're very like that's all you. I mean, you're lucky

932
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,639
to even have that, like your your sanctuary, right your home,

933
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,280
your possessions, your bed, you're and to all just be

934
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,800
taken away in a flash, right, I mean, it's so devastating.

935
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:25,960
It's just it's it's really yeah.

936
00:48:26,079 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, So my heart out to all you people out there.

937
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,639
And there's no need for these silly conrasy theories about

938
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,119
there's all kinds of I mean, all you have to

939
00:48:36,119 --> 00:48:38,360
do is open social media and you hear like a

940
00:48:38,599 --> 00:48:42,719
directed pulses and players and all that, and people don't

941
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,920
understand this, but I do because my sister lost her

942
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,840
house on a fire, you know, a forest fire. And

943
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,039
basically what happened was she had ashes on the floor

944
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,920
from an oak dresser right on the floor, and then

945
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,559
six feet away was an antique table with a newspaper

946
00:48:56,599 --> 00:48:59,960
on it. So what happens is the air, the airport,

947
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,440
buckets of air. The fire does these little flashes. And

948
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,239
that's what people can't understand. They're saying, why are these trees? Okay,

949
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,320
when the bridge is burned out, you know that type

950
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,159
of thing. But that does that's fire is a strange thing.

951
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 3: And you've seen I've seen pictures of a house standing

952
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,800
and everything around it burned, all the other houses burned. Yeah,

953
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,320
it's just some kind of weird Yeah.

954
00:49:20,599 --> 00:49:23,079
Speaker 2: And someone that was on the show recently, on my

955
00:49:23,159 --> 00:49:25,719
show here, I won't say his name because I don't

956
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,480
have his permission, but he sent me a video and

957
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,199
his house was saved. The fireman were right there spraying

958
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,119
his house, while his neighbor's house was burned right down.

959
00:49:35,679 --> 00:49:38,440
So but his house made it with some damage, but

960
00:49:38,599 --> 00:49:39,760
at least he still has it.

961
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,039
Speaker 4: And yeah, it's really sad.

962
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 2: But anyway, onto back onto your your movie. The Calvine photo.

963
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:50,840
I love that photo. I had David Clark on a

964
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,960
couple of times talking about that. I think that's my

965
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:59,199
personal feelings on that is that is the best photo

966
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:00,159
that I know about me.

967
00:50:00,199 --> 00:50:00,760
Speaker 3: A better one.

968
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's that one in Australia that's pretty

969
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,360
amazing the guy took with the polaroid.

970
00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 3: James Kibble, Right, Yeah, I got pretty revealed that for

971
00:50:08,519 --> 00:50:10,519
the first time in the phenomenon. Yeah. Remember, I mean

972
00:50:10,599 --> 00:50:13,239
that's a good photograph. But nowhere, I mean, come on, yeah,

973
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,639
I mean you know it's an object and yeah, it's cool.

974
00:50:15,639 --> 00:50:17,840
I mean you can definitely see it. Like he said.

975
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,360
He literally said in his haste, James Kibble. I got

976
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,639
him on camera. He'd been hiding for fifty years. He

977
00:50:23,679 --> 00:50:25,599
said that he saw the thing. He had it, he

978
00:50:25,639 --> 00:50:27,639
had his you know, did.

979
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,599
Speaker 4: He say it was a Polari?

980
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, he said he was documenting his garden for his mother. Yeah,

981
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,360
and all of a sudden he got this flash and

982
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,360
he looked up and there was his disc and I

983
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,199
think he said it was like kind of doing this

984
00:50:41,039 --> 00:50:43,199
kind of like a leaf kind of falling and he

985
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,599
grabbed his camera and he said, in his haste he

986
00:50:46,679 --> 00:50:49,559
hid himself in the face, split his nose open.

987
00:50:49,679 --> 00:50:50,199
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

988
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and but clicked and as it did so, it

989
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:57,360
went like this, yeah, boom, he clicked the picture got

990
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,400
one and then he said it sped off and an

991
00:51:00,559 --> 00:51:02,920
unbelievable rate of speed. And I asked him, I was like,

992
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,880
can you describe the acceleration? And he said it was

993
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:07,599
like being shot out of a gun of a like

994
00:51:07,639 --> 00:51:11,239
the barrel of a gun. Yeah, damn gone, Well.

995
00:51:11,039 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 4: Hear that so many times. Really do things just shoot off?

996
00:51:13,679 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 3: But the Calvine UFO photograph, Thank you David Clark and

997
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,239
all the others that were involved in in that case,

998
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:24,079
and and thank you to Richard ve Uh for coming

999
00:51:24,079 --> 00:51:26,239
forward because that definitely is a is a big piece

1000
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:28,519
of the of the puzzle that was missing. And I

1001
00:51:28,559 --> 00:51:34,920
believe Richard and and obviously, uh, you know Craig Lindsay,

1002
00:51:35,039 --> 00:51:39,280
the former press officer for r F Air Force Nick

1003
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,199
Pope coming on and commenting on it.

1004
00:51:41,639 --> 00:51:43,199
Speaker 4: He talked about that photo for years.

1005
00:51:43,199 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, I heard about the late nineties and

1006
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:49,960
his book. I think open open Skies, Closed Minds, I

1007
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:54,760
think it was. But yeah, I remember I mean, if

1008
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,480
you Nick Pope. For pretty much most of my movies.

1009
00:51:58,639 --> 00:52:03,599
I remember Boyish, you know. We'd go and i'd meet

1010
00:52:03,679 --> 00:52:06,119
him at the at the at Parliament when he was

1011
00:52:06,199 --> 00:52:09,440
at the desk of the mod and come out and

1012
00:52:09,519 --> 00:52:11,119
shoot an interview and maybe go to lunch and have

1013
00:52:11,119 --> 00:52:13,320
a couple of pints. And I see this interview, this

1014
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:14,880
little young boyish, I mean, he looked like he was

1015
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,199
like twenty five, you know. But I would ask him like, hey,

1016
00:52:18,599 --> 00:52:21,239
you know, what's some of the best cases, and he

1017
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,760
just would always say, oh, there was this I think

1018
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,760
he said, excuse me for I think he said. I

1019
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,920
think he said it took a place in Scotland. There

1020
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,760
were two hikers and they had like five prints and

1021
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,719
this object. I don't remember if he talked about the

1022
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,840
military jet, but he definitely talked about points of reference

1023
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,639
and this big diamond shaped UFO and I remember thinking, like,

1024
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,079
what happened to that picture? It was in a poster.

1025
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,480
I pastored him and pastored him in pastoral because I

1026
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,840
was like, look, he goes, I don't know, man, I left,

1027
00:52:55,159 --> 00:52:58,480
I'm retired now. I said, we'll contact the people that

1028
00:52:58,559 --> 00:53:00,639
you were working with therapy around the They didn't throw

1029
00:53:00,679 --> 00:53:02,360
the buttograph of the garbage. You can, I guarantee you

1030
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,079
if somebody kept it, you know, oh you know, and

1031
00:53:05,119 --> 00:53:07,800
I what about your predecessor? You know all this stuff,

1032
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:11,280
and all I can say again, I can't. I can't

1033
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,960
overstate the significance of the work that David Clark did

1034
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:17,000
because they buried that story and it would have never

1035
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,960
seen the light of day. I had not been for

1036
00:53:19,039 --> 00:53:20,599
the work they didn't had it not been for Greg

1037
00:53:20,599 --> 00:53:23,440
Lindsay holding onto that one print, right, you know, and

1038
00:53:23,519 --> 00:53:25,719
asked Craig Lindsay about that. And I'm sure you know this,

1039
00:53:26,119 --> 00:53:27,960
or maybe you do or maybe you don't. But I

1040
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:29,760
asked them. I was like, well, what are the other five? Prints?

1041
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:31,480
Looked like I wasn't sure if there was six or

1042
00:53:31,559 --> 00:53:35,480
five in total in all, but he said that Craig

1043
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,199
Lindsay had seen them all. He said that you had

1044
00:53:38,199 --> 00:53:41,920
that diamond shaped you know, disc diamond whatever you want

1045
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:45,440
to call it, ground fence, and then you have what

1046
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:49,079
turns out they're almost positive it was a Harrier jump jet, yes,

1047
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,159
and that you know, the camera guy got up the

1048
00:53:52,199 --> 00:53:54,320
courage because I guess they were hiding under the tree.

1049
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,880
They were terrified what is this silent object just hovering there,

1050
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,679
suspended in the sky right there, And when the jet came,

1051
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:03,719
that's when they got the courage out and took six

1052
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:08,039
I think five or six yeah photos, And he said

1053
00:54:08,039 --> 00:54:10,960
that the jet like this is according to and other

1054
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,039
people said there were two jets. I'm just telling you

1055
00:54:13,039 --> 00:54:16,000
what Craig Lindsay told me. He said it was picture

1056
00:54:16,519 --> 00:54:21,519
click click object click click click. So the Harrier jet

1057
00:54:21,599 --> 00:54:24,800
goes right round and they take a picture, and the

1058
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,800
Harrier jets in a different position, but the disc or

1059
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:31,199
the or the diamond shaped craft is stationary. And then

1060
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:33,199
after that it just shot off straight up.

1061
00:54:33,519 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's not going to be one of ours.

1062
00:54:36,199 --> 00:54:39,679
I mean, there's speculation that was something to do with

1063
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:43,119
some of our you know, maybe an experimental craft or

1064
00:54:43,159 --> 00:54:44,920
something like that. But we're not going to have anything

1065
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:45,760
shoot straight up.

1066
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:51,639
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know. Look, we can't absolutely eliminate

1067
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:57,559
the possibility that it was some super secret military prototype,

1068
00:54:57,679 --> 00:55:00,639
whatever you want to call it. I have a tough

1069
00:55:00,679 --> 00:55:04,559
time with that because of the of the technology that

1070
00:55:04,679 --> 00:55:07,119
was what thirty four years ago, thirty five years ago.

1071
00:55:08,159 --> 00:55:10,239
That's a huge story. If that's the case. They managed

1072
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,039
to keep this revolutionary technology from us. And I'm not

1073
00:55:13,079 --> 00:55:18,039
saying look, I've I can never say never. My in

1074
00:55:18,199 --> 00:55:21,880
clean based on all the research that I've done, is

1075
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,760
that that was not our technology. That was that would

1076
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,480
fall into the category of other. But I could be wrong, right,

1077
00:55:28,599 --> 00:55:30,920
I could be wrong either way. It's a huge story

1078
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,960
because if if if it is one of ours, then

1079
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:37,840
we've you know, it's for all intensive purpose. I guess

1080
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,360
it would be considered anti gravitic technology or certainly something

1081
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,119
that could an object with no wings, no visible means

1082
00:55:44,159 --> 00:55:46,639
of propulsion, didn't make any sound, that could that could hover,

1083
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:48,800
fly and then go straight up in the I mean

1084
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:51,199
right crazy.

1085
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 2: So I just want to say goodbye to everyone over

1086
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,320
at KGRA. We'll be back next week with Ryan Graves.

1087
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:00,280
And I also have Terry Randall on from Nova, so

1088
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,039
that that's an in studio with Ryan Graves next week.

1089
00:56:03,039 --> 00:56:06,239
Thank you at KGr A Radio. Now, James, i'd like

1090
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,800
to have you on for a little while longer, yeah,

1091
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,920
and I would like to discuss what do you think

1092
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:13,199
about the drone situation.

1093
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:21,519
Speaker 3: I got a text from this Air Force colonel that

1094
00:56:21,639 --> 00:56:26,880
was actually helping me dig my teeth into the Virginie

1095
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,800
UFO case, because he was like, look, if that plane

1096
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,760
really did come into landing Campenis I got cont I'll

1097
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:35,679
get to the second. I got contacted by this guy

1098
00:56:35,679 --> 00:56:39,159
anonymously for several months. We're going back and forth with emails,

1099
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,599
and he was very knowledgeable. And I get contacted by

1100
00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:45,480
a lot of people. This guy stood out. I was like,

1101
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,760
this guy is really really knowledgeable. Only one day I

1102
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,440
was like, who are you? And he goes, well, actually,

1103
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,519
I'm a I'm a I'm a former United States Air

1104
00:56:55,519 --> 00:56:57,800
Force couronel. I'm also a fighter pilot and I had

1105
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,679
a very dramatic UFO and count in nineteen eighty in Europe.

1106
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,280
And Uh, I was like, ah, that blames it. Well,

1107
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:07,639
he texted he actually has a cameo in the in

1108
00:57:07,679 --> 00:57:11,519
the in the pro the outtakes. Yeah, exactly, And uh

1109
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,679
he texted me a couple of weeks ago when the

1110
00:57:15,679 --> 00:57:17,599
film compt He goes, James, let me ask you a question.

1111
00:57:18,119 --> 00:57:21,760
How did you manage to orchestrate an alien invasion or

1112
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:25,280
a drone UAP invasion to coincide with the release of.

1113
00:57:25,239 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 4: Your movie perfect.

1114
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:27,559
Speaker 3: I was like, how did you do that?

1115
00:57:27,599 --> 00:57:31,039
Speaker 4: Because I'd like to know you know that's an expensive campaign.

1116
00:57:31,159 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and so I was reaching out to everybody

1117
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:36,599
I could possibly reach out to because I knew everyone

1118
00:57:36,639 --> 00:57:41,960
was going to be asking asking me those questions. What

1119
00:57:42,079 --> 00:57:47,440
I find unusual is that the size of the drones,

1120
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:54,119
the loiter time of the drones. I mean, obviously, you know,

1121
00:57:54,159 --> 00:57:56,880
I'm sure that the United States military has highly advanced

1122
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,159
drones that we're totally not even aware of. I mean,

1123
00:57:59,199 --> 00:58:01,199
they probably have things that look like a bird that

1124
00:58:01,199 --> 00:58:03,199
fly out there too. I'm sure they've got I mean,

1125
00:58:03,239 --> 00:58:08,480
I remember going to the nineteen fifties and sixties. It's

1126
00:58:08,519 --> 00:58:11,719
the like the James Bond equivalent museum of like all

1127
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,639
the high tech stuff that was done, you know, forty fifties,

1128
00:58:14,679 --> 00:58:18,679
sixty years ago. Have you heard about that. It's in Washington, DC. Event,

1129
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:23,239
Holy smokes, sounds like it. Stuff. You're seeing stuff that

1130
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:27,360
was obviously classify at the time, but like dragonflies from

1131
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,960
like the nineteen fifties or sixties, really intricate that could

1132
00:58:31,039 --> 00:58:34,719
fly and they look exactly like a dragonfly. Crazy fifty

1133
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:38,800
years ago, I was blowing my mind. You can only

1134
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,960
imagine what they have nowadays, right, you know what I mean? Nanotechnology, gnats, whatever,

1135
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,880
So I'm certain it's quite possible there's an element of that. However,

1136
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,039
there were fifty drums coming in off the ocean that's

1137
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,960
scratching their heads. The government's going, we don't know what

1138
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:53,639
they are, but don't worry about it. Everything's fine.

1139
00:58:53,639 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 4: It's like, wait, yeah, it's kind of like the UFO.

1140
00:58:56,599 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 3: I jokingly said that about the movie Jaws on Rogan

1141
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,719
because it was like, you remember Jaws when they were

1142
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,239
like the mayor was like, everything's fine, don't worry about that,

1143
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:06,679
don't worry about you know, they have this swim swim,

1144
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:11,400
you know, massive tourist based industry economy, and you know,

1145
00:59:11,519 --> 00:59:14,280
everything's fine, and it's so funny like they would say that.

1146
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:16,440
It's just like Bill Nelson, the head of Nelton, head

1147
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,239
of NASA. I was so glad I got that question. Yeah,

1148
00:59:19,239 --> 00:59:21,800
because he's going, we don't know what they are, but

1149
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:26,079
they're not extraterrestrial. I'm like, yeah, how could you say

1150
00:59:26,119 --> 00:59:29,079
what something isn't when you don't know what it is exactly?

1151
00:59:29,199 --> 00:59:30,800
So to answer your question on the drone thing, I

1152
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,920
think it's complex and I think that if there was

1153
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:36,039
an easy answer, they'd give it to us. But something

1154
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:40,039
weird is going on because there's you know, warbs that

1155
00:59:40,039 --> 00:59:42,480
are being seen as well, there's a high loiter time.

1156
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:46,360
Why would they be flying these things over residential areas

1157
00:59:46,519 --> 00:59:48,880
night after night after night. I mean I had friends

1158
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,840
that lived there calling me going, what the hell's going on?

1159
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:53,320
Never seen anything like this?

1160
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,079
Speaker 4: And I got to tell you what in my conversation with.

1161
00:59:56,159 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. So I did answer your question,

1162
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,199
I don't. I don't know. I wish, I wish I did.

1163
01:00:00,239 --> 01:00:00,559
I don't.

1164
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, the conversation I had recently with Ryan Graves, yeah,

1165
01:00:05,039 --> 01:00:07,159
he said that nothing has slowed down. It's just the

1166
01:00:07,199 --> 01:00:10,920
media reporting. So they're still ongoing. And I still get

1167
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,519
things sent to me, Like today, someone sent me something

1168
01:00:14,519 --> 01:00:17,880
I think it was from Norway. Drones over there. I mean,

1169
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,559
this is a This isn't just the United States and

1170
01:00:20,599 --> 01:00:24,760
New Jersey. It's and you know what, it was around

1171
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,039
Christmas time for a couple of years in a row,

1172
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:28,320
if that happened.

1173
01:00:28,559 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I read a report by a guy named Jeff Nusatelli,

1174
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:36,199
I think it is who was stationed at Vandenburg Air

1175
01:00:36,199 --> 01:00:37,719
Force Base. I think it was two thousand and three,

1176
01:00:38,159 --> 01:00:40,360
two thousand and four, two thousand and five where he

1177
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,599
talks about these mass these incursions with orbs and these

1178
01:00:43,639 --> 01:00:48,000
massive football field sized you know, triangles over the base.

1179
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:51,440
I think that's a that's a case that Yeah, so

1180
01:00:51,559 --> 01:00:55,559
there's nothing. Yeah, these these things have been happening, you know,

1181
01:00:56,519 --> 01:01:00,400
for the FOO fighters back in the World War two orbs. Yeah,

1182
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,440
so I don't know, something weird going on. That's a

1183
01:01:03,559 --> 01:01:07,320
question of that. I mean why, you know, I remember

1184
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:12,360
the former SENTI Majority leader Schumer, yeah, coming, you know,

1185
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:14,360
and there was somebody in the crowd screaming, you know,

1186
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:17,559
these drones, and he goes, these drones. I'm sorry you

1187
01:01:17,599 --> 01:01:20,519
wrote the legislation. You guys are calling them UAPs. Well,

1188
01:01:20,519 --> 01:01:23,199
we don't know what they are, yeah, exactly. So it's

1189
01:01:23,239 --> 01:01:27,159
an unidentified aerial or novelist phenomena. It's in the bloody sky,

1190
01:01:27,559 --> 01:01:29,440
you know. But I think they used the word drones

1191
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:31,119
because they knew that UAP had a bit of a

1192
01:01:31,159 --> 01:01:35,039
scarier you know, because it's like, you know, that's that's like,

1193
01:01:35,559 --> 01:01:39,800
you know, one associates UFO UAP last, but with other

1194
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,920
worldly right, not us or not any kind of foreign

1195
01:01:43,159 --> 01:01:44,599
So I think they use the word drones because it

1196
01:01:44,599 --> 01:01:47,239
makes people sleep better. Maybe that's what it is some

1197
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,000
of the drones, and maybe maybe there's some drones some conventionable.

1198
01:01:50,079 --> 01:01:53,599
It's really weird. These are not your hobby drones. I

1199
01:01:53,599 --> 01:01:59,119
fly drugs, right, These are highly sophisticated, very large, long

1200
01:01:59,159 --> 01:02:02,639
loiter times and hours and hours yep. And then what

1201
01:02:02,679 --> 01:02:04,039
are they doing? Right?

1202
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:09,559
Speaker 2: And and then there was some people reporting that they

1203
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,920
flew or drone up to one and that their drone doll.

1204
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 3: Out of the sky. Yeah. I heard that number of

1205
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:16,159
those instances.

1206
01:02:16,239 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know what what is that all about?

1207
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:21,400
It it's another weird mystery.

1208
01:02:21,559 --> 01:02:23,239
Speaker 3: And that could that could be military?

1209
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:24,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true.

1210
01:02:24,599 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 3: It could military would have that ability. I would imagine

1211
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:28,639
to drop other things. It could be a potential thread

1212
01:02:28,639 --> 01:02:31,440
out of the sky, you know, I mean, I don't know.

1213
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,679
I mean because the UFO bdify UFO usually has an

1214
01:02:34,719 --> 01:02:38,679
evasive maneuver, evasive action. Anytime you go, you know, try

1215
01:02:38,719 --> 01:02:40,559
they usually take off at a pretty high rate. I'm

1216
01:02:40,599 --> 01:02:43,360
just saying, I don't know. Certainly would be fitting of

1217
01:02:44,559 --> 01:02:46,480
lots of incidences in the past.

1218
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what do you think is you know, you

1219
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:53,079
mentioned that you may revamp one of your older movies.

1220
01:02:53,119 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 4: Do you have things planned and the.

1221
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 2: That was the identified That was the end of say

1222
01:03:02,519 --> 01:03:04,000
what do you have in the future planned? In the

1223
01:03:04,039 --> 01:03:05,559
future anything? Anything planned?

1224
01:03:05,639 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, going back to Brazilt, Yeah, I'm going to revamp.

1225
01:03:10,199 --> 01:03:11,440
Just like I did with Out of the Blue, I'm

1226
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:13,039
gonna do that with Moment of Contact. I'm going to

1227
01:03:13,079 --> 01:03:15,079
bring it up to twenty twenty five. We've got some

1228
01:03:15,119 --> 01:03:18,280
new developments on the case. We got the Foyer thing.

1229
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,760
We've got a number of new people coming forward, forensic pathologists,

1230
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:23,679
things of that nature. Are going to get them on camera.

1231
01:03:24,239 --> 01:03:27,320
I've got a brilliant idea for the whole new it's

1232
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,599
I got it all mapped out, and then I'm probably

1233
01:03:29,639 --> 01:03:31,280
going to do an event at the National Press Club.

1234
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,079
I've been talking a little bit about that with Leslie

1235
01:03:33,159 --> 01:03:36,679
Kane and uh yeah, because things are happening so quickly

1236
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:39,039
right now that it would be good, I think. And

1237
01:03:39,039 --> 01:03:40,360
I could make a movie out of it, just like

1238
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,000
I did with the idea what I saw. I could

1239
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:45,639
document it, like get all the witnesses out. The common

1240
01:03:45,679 --> 01:03:50,480
theme would be not totally sure. I'm still thinking about

1241
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:53,360
thinking it through, but it would be uh, you know,

1242
01:03:53,519 --> 01:03:56,400
because because I'm curious, what is it going to take

1243
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,400
because everyone's frustrated because to we're these first hand witnesses. Yeah,

1244
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:02,400
first of all, the terrified for their security and safety,

1245
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:06,679
not just their careers. But you know, the fear factor

1246
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:11,440
is real, right, So I'm curious and I'm looking into this, like,

1247
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:14,119
what would it take. Let's just say that the incoming

1248
01:04:14,159 --> 01:04:19,199
administration wanted to wave their magic wand and provide immunity

1249
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,440
for these first hand witnesses to come forward and testify

1250
01:04:22,559 --> 01:04:25,719
under oath and open congressional airings, because we know that

1251
01:04:26,119 --> 01:04:28,679
a handful of them have done it in a skiff

1252
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,239
behind closed doors. Yeah right, But what is it going

1253
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,039
to take to get them at the comfort level they

1254
01:04:33,039 --> 01:04:36,119
need to come forward and reveal the details needed to

1255
01:04:36,239 --> 01:04:38,079
verify the claims they're making. You know what I mean?

1256
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 4: Do you that I would ever let that happen?

1257
01:04:40,559 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 3: Well, when you say they, I mean the people that

1258
01:04:45,079 --> 01:04:47,840
the keepers of the secret.

1259
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:50,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, the gatekeepers, the gatekeepers.

1260
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:54,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they're losing control of the situation. I

1261
01:04:54,119 --> 01:04:55,960
don't think they're gonna I don't think they're gonna hold on.

1262
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,199
But I don't I don't think so. I think they

1263
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:00,960
probably know at this point it's probably somewhat of a

1264
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:04,840
controlled disclosure in my opinion. Yeah, I mean I I

1265
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:08,880
you know, I remember. The closest we ever came to

1266
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:12,960
what felt like potential I would say disclosure, but certainly

1267
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,559
I pushed in that direction was two thousand and seven,

1268
01:05:15,599 --> 01:05:19,519
two thousand and eight, when when England was releasing their

1269
01:05:19,559 --> 01:05:23,079
previously classified files, mod and the French were doing the same,

1270
01:05:23,159 --> 01:05:27,599
and other countries were having like things being released. There

1271
01:05:27,639 --> 01:05:29,159
wasn't a whole lot attraction at the time going on

1272
01:05:29,199 --> 01:05:32,199
in the United States. However, we found out later that

1273
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:34,360
there was, but it was class It was all that

1274
01:05:34,519 --> 01:05:37,679
in secret because when I was meeting with Bigelow back

1275
01:05:37,719 --> 01:05:39,519
in two thousand and nine, he was working with ASAP,

1276
01:05:40,559 --> 01:05:43,039
you know, which eventually evolves into into a TIP. So

1277
01:05:44,079 --> 01:05:46,679
Leslie Kane and I were asking for a new government

1278
01:05:46,719 --> 01:05:50,400
investigation into UFOs and guess what it was happening at

1279
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:54,119
that time. Isn't that weird? Think about? Yeah, we were like,

1280
01:05:54,199 --> 01:05:56,039
you know, start a new project blue book will it

1281
01:05:56,119 --> 01:05:58,239
was and it was AWESAP and a tip and it

1282
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:00,239
was under it was underground, it was hidden, and it

1283
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:04,039
leaked ten years later. Nicol, Yeah, that's great. Something I

1284
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:04,920
a little factoid.

1285
01:06:05,159 --> 01:06:08,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, something I have talked about maybe once or twice

1286
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:11,599
on this, but I find it really interesting. South Carolina,

1287
01:06:12,039 --> 01:06:14,400
I spent some time and I'm involved in group strummers

1288
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:17,760
who strum our guitars, you know, and talking to a

1289
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:21,960
guy there who I did a little UFO presentation there,

1290
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:24,719
which was great. We had two hundred fifty people show up,

1291
01:06:25,039 --> 01:06:28,000
you know. I did UFO one O one there.

1292
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:29,119
Speaker 3: Is that literally what you called it?

1293
01:06:29,239 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 4: Or yes, yeah, for you know, people just interested in it.

1294
01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1295
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:35,679
Speaker 4: So anyway, I had really a fun time doing that.

1296
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 2: But this guy says, oh, yeah, I had a water

1297
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:41,440
cooler talk when I was worked for the government with

1298
01:06:41,519 --> 01:06:45,960
the UFO guys in Ohio at you know. And he says, yeah,

1299
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:47,920
I had water cooler talk all the time. I said, oh, yeah,

1300
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,559
when was that in the late late sixties and he said, yeah,

1301
01:06:50,639 --> 01:06:54,119
right into the nineteen seventies. I said, wait a minute,

1302
01:06:53,639 --> 01:06:57,920
not nineteen seventy, and he said, yeah, nineteen seventy. After

1303
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,079
nineteen seventy, he goes, I don't know exactly when, but

1304
01:07:00,559 --> 01:07:02,599
he said, you were still talking to these guys about

1305
01:07:02,639 --> 01:07:07,119
UFOs then, And I said, Project Bluebook closed in nineteen

1306
01:07:07,159 --> 01:07:07,760
sixty nine.

1307
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:10,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I thought that was really interesting. Now I

1308
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:12,119
can't you know, I talk.

1309
01:07:12,239 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 2: I see him all the time when I'm down there,

1310
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:16,039
but you know that I don't think I can get

1311
01:07:16,039 --> 01:07:18,000
any further than that, but I thought it was interesting.

1312
01:07:18,119 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 3: I think of Project blue Book and it's almost synonymous

1313
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:23,599
with that one statement by Errol Brown was the Secretary

1314
01:07:23,599 --> 01:07:25,920
of the Air Force when he's like he's got this

1315
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,400
little shit eating grin on his face, and then the

1316
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:30,360
camera's on his face and he kind of straightens up

1317
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:33,639
and he's like, oh, yeah, I have not been hiding anything.

1318
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:33,679
Speaker 4: That's right.

1319
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:37,159
Speaker 3: I love I mustn't given that quote like so much

1320
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:40,239
runtime with LOFE because it's so telling, you know, it's

1321
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:45,800
like sabled robot it. I've noticed with the program. There

1322
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:49,079
was a moment during the press conference at NASA where

1323
01:07:49,199 --> 01:07:52,239
they were just like reeling off the same baloney they've

1324
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:55,960
been really for, you know, and then I juxtaposed, you know,

1325
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:59,159
the Air Force staying the same thing fifty six.

1326
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:00,559
Speaker 4: That's I love way you did that.

1327
01:08:00,599 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love the way Jay and Heech

1328
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:12,039
is yeah, yeah, that's exact birth. That was beautiful yeah yeah, yeah,

1329
01:08:12,079 --> 01:08:16,159
So yeah, I mean one thing, key and what NASA

1330
01:08:16,239 --> 01:08:19,680
was doing. They were working with just unclassified information, so silly,

1331
01:08:20,039 --> 01:08:21,079
so it doesn't even.

1332
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:21,680
Speaker 3: Decide to fail.

1333
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 2: It's of course window dressing. As you say, I would

1334
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:27,560
like to play the trailer to the program.

1335
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:28,600
Speaker 3: Please just do it.

1336
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:29,119
Speaker 4: Here we go.

1337
01:08:29,159 --> 01:08:32,079
Speaker 3: In twenty seventeen, The New York Times.

1338
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:37,399
Speaker 4: Published a story exposing a secret government program investigating UFOs.

1339
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:42,239
Speaker 2: That story was kind of a catalyst for a lot

1340
01:08:42,279 --> 01:08:43,479
of things that have happened since.

1341
01:08:44,119 --> 01:08:45,600
Speaker 4: Members of Congress start to ask.

1342
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 3: Questions instruments report there is something there.

1343
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:51,079
Speaker 2: There are flight characteristics that we can't explain.

1344
01:08:51,399 --> 01:08:55,039
Speaker 3: UAPs are unexplained. It's true, they need to be investigated.

1345
01:08:56,359 --> 01:08:57,159
Here we are.

1346
01:08:57,399 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: Having a hearing where just a few years ago did

1347
01:09:00,199 --> 01:09:01,600
acknowledge that these things were real.

1348
01:09:02,399 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 3: Do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs? Absolutely?

1349
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 6: Based on interviewing over forty witnesses over four years.

1350
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:13,119
Speaker 3: You're telling me people have come forward claiming first hand

1351
01:09:13,239 --> 01:09:15,680
knowledge of craft of non human origin.

1352
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:17,319
Speaker 6: That's correct.

1353
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:21,800
Speaker 3: We have sources who have asserted not only that there

1354
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:27,239
have been crashes, but there have been crash retriebles. Do

1355
01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:30,119
we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft?

1356
01:09:30,399 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 6: Biologics came with some of these recoveries.

1357
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:37,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, were they human or non human? Non human?

1358
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:43,520
Speaker 6: I'm sitting here today because the American people are being

1359
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:44,000
lied to.

1360
01:09:45,039 --> 01:09:47,720
Speaker 3: We are the American government, and we are open and

1361
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:50,800
we're going to be open about this. What has been.

1362
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 2: Revealed, non human intelligence exists, non human intelligence has been

1363
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:56,800
interacting with humanity.

1364
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:57,960
Speaker 3: Is only part of the story.

1365
01:09:58,119 --> 01:10:00,520
Speaker 6: The partners are kindagon the CIA if they're going to

1366
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:01,279
have to answer the man.

1367
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:05,079
Speaker 3: Some are risking everything. Have you had incidences that has

1368
01:10:05,239 --> 01:10:07,279
caused you to be in fear for your life? Yes,

1369
01:10:07,359 --> 01:10:10,560
personally to uncover the rest What is being done to

1370
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:13,359
verify the assertion that the US government has spaceships of

1371
01:10:13,399 --> 01:10:17,359
non human intelligence in their possession. That kind of revelation

1372
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:20,239
unearthed people's beliefs.

1373
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:23,840
Speaker 6: We go to jail to say thanks that I've been

1374
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:32,199
exposed to in the program.

1375
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:39,079
Speaker 3: Here we go.

1376
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:41,239
Speaker 4: All I can say is bravo.

1377
01:10:42,119 --> 01:10:45,560
Speaker 3: I got to see that movie that that was incredible. God,

1378
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:47,880
I had me on the edge of my seat. Yeah

1379
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:48,960
I know, I know.

1380
01:10:49,319 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 2: So anyway, I want to thank you so much. It's

1381
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:55,000
been such a pleasure during this show with you tonight.

1382
01:10:55,119 --> 01:10:56,760
Speaker 3: Thank you for having on it. It was good fun.

1383
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:58,159
We'll do it again, I hope so.

1384
01:10:58,279 --> 01:11:00,399
Speaker 2: And it's so nice to be here and what a

1385
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:03,319
lovely place you have, and I'm so glad that things

1386
01:11:03,359 --> 01:11:06,560
have worked out, you know. I know it's a tough, tough,

1387
01:11:07,119 --> 01:11:10,560
uh you know, thing to go through when all the

1388
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:11,880
work you put in and then.

1389
01:11:12,319 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 3: Me getting ripped off. Yeah.

1390
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,159
Speaker 2: I didn't want to say that, but that part, that

1391
01:11:16,199 --> 01:11:18,119
part is really tough, but I was very tough.

1392
01:11:18,319 --> 01:11:20,399
Speaker 4: I hope, not gonna lie that was that was tough.

1393
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:23,800
Speaker 2: I hope you can just keep plowing ahead and you know,

1394
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,279
get that behind you in the rearview mirror and.

1395
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:28,359
Speaker 3: Keep doing what you're doing with We love what you do.

1396
01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:29,119
I can speak.

1397
01:11:29,159 --> 01:11:31,640
Speaker 2: I'm speaking for myself, but I'm also speaking for a

1398
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:32,960
lot of people, my listeners.

1399
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:34,319
Speaker 3: We love what you do. I think I got a

1400
01:11:34,319 --> 01:11:35,359
couple of films left in me.

1401
01:11:35,640 --> 01:12:05,399
Speaker 4: Good glad to get you all right. Take care,