WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:07.919 Oh gee is folks, it's showtime. 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:10.599 People say good money to see this movie. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.519 When they go out to a theater, they want closed sodas, 4 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:17.719 pop popcorn, and no monsters. In the Projection Booth, everyone 5 00:00:17.719 --> 00:00:38.079 for tend podcasting isn't boring, got it off? 6 00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:42.840 Hey, folks, Welcome to a special episode of the Projection Booth. 7 00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:45.560 I'm your host, Mike White. On this episode, I'm talking 8 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.320 with the authors of the Scarred for Life series. That's 9 00:00:48.320 --> 00:00:51.520 Scarred for Life Volume one, two, and three, all available 10 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:55.399 at lulu dot com. They are also behind the Scarred 11 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:58.880 for Life podcast as well as a live show. They 12 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:02.560 being Steven Brothers Stone and Dave Lawrence. They took the 13 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:05.040 time out of their schedules to talk to me about 14 00:01:05.079 --> 00:01:07.920 their series. I had a wonderful discussion. I have to 15 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:10.480 say that it was prompted by a comment that was 16 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:13.959 made on a episode that we did, oh quite a 17 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:16.519 few years ago now, when we talked about Miracle Mile, 18 00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:20.640 which really helped capture the nuclear paranoia that had gripped 19 00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:24.000 the world at that time, possibly a little bit earlier. 20 00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:27.799 And one of the listeners to that episode told me 21 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:31.000 that I was overreacting, that there was no reason for 22 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:35.959 me to be as scared as I was by nuclear annihilation. Well, yeah, 23 00:01:35.959 --> 00:01:39.079 it's kind of hard telling a ten, twelve, fourteen year 24 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:42.319 old that, especially when it's all over every piece of 25 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:49.040 media that you can possibly think of, including television, comics, movies, books, music, 26 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:53.120 and these caardful life books really bring that home. Thank 27 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:55.200 you so much for listening. Thanks to Stephen and Dave 28 00:01:55.239 --> 00:01:57.480 for their time. I hope you enjoyed this interview. 29 00:01:58.359 --> 00:01:58.680 Guys. 30 00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:01.159 I am super excited talk to you about your book 31 00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:04.920 series and also your podcast and also your live show. 32 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:07.280 My gosh, you guys are doing a lot of stuff. 33 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:11.280 Stephen and Dave, tell me a little bit more about yourselves, 34 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:15.719 and really, what's the backstory before you even meet. 35 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:20.439 We met at Forbidden Planet, at the comic shop chain 36 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:22.639 in Britain. I think there's one in New York as well. 37 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:26.199 I went there for twenty three years and Dave was 38 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:29.080 the oldest customer through that. I've always said this. 39 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:33.599 Longest serving, longest, even not the oldest, longest serving. 40 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:39.759 One day, I will remember the longest serving through the doors. 41 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:43.199 And as happens, they become a friend of the shop, 42 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:46.520 then just become a friend, and Dave would bring in 43 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:49.800 buckets of biscuits. We'd make cups of tea and coffee 44 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:54.319 and just have a nice natter, and it's gone for life. 45 00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:57.159 Born from a conversation we had him work with me 46 00:02:57.240 --> 00:03:01.680 and Dave and Cole I made who worked a Forbidden Planet. 47 00:03:01.719 --> 00:03:05.240 It was a really quiet morning. There was no deliveries, 48 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:08.439 there was nothing to do, so reading bits, kids, drinking tea, 49 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:11.280 and it was one of those conversations where it was 50 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:15.360 do you remember this from when we were kids? Remember 51 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:18.560 that comic with the shark that was going around and 52 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:22.400 biting people in half? And remember that TV show about 53 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:25.400 the Standing Stones that was terrifying with the horrible theme 54 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:30.400 music toward film board games even And it must have 55 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:32.840 been about what an hour and a half at least Dave, 56 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:35.000 that we were chatting, probably a couple of hours before 57 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:38.400 we had to start working. But I realized everything that 58 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:45.240 we were talking about was horrible, violent, shocking, scary, inappropriate. 59 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:48.560 We were talking about like the racist sitcoms that we grew 60 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:51.719 up with in the seventies, and most of it was 61 00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:54.800 aimed at children. So I wanted to read a book 62 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:58.039 that I just assumed somewhat somewhere I had written about 63 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:02.159 the dark Side of seventies and eighties pop culture and 64 00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:06.400 couldn't find one at all on the internet anywhere. So 65 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:09.479 next day in work I was chatting to Call about 66 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:12.000 it and he said, you enjoy writing, why don't you 67 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:15.800 write it? And I just laughed in his space. I 68 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:18.399 wasn't a professional writer. I just enjoyed it as i'll be. 69 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:21.680 But I couldn't shift it from your head. So I 70 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:27.160 was making lists, making noteses Over the next week. I 71 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:30.399 realized one of god gans a huge task this was 72 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:32.360 going to be to write this book. There was so 73 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:35.240 much to write about. So the next time Dave was 74 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:37.480 in the following week, I said to Dave, like, you 75 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:41.040 enjoy writing as well, actually writing this book together, and 76 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:43.519 he said yeah, and David you can take over from here. 77 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:45.199 It was it's crazy, wasn't it. 78 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:47.560 Well, that's absolutely when we did the lack of material 79 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:49.600 that it seed me these massive lists of stuff. I 80 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:51.839 came up with massive lists of stuff. There's so much 81 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:54.600 in the seventies that we could probably do another book 82 00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:56.439 for the same size the first one, which is seventy to 83 00:04:56.439 --> 00:05:00.000 forty pages, and fill it with all new stuff easily. 84 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:02.519 So yes, So Stee said, you want to write this book. 85 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:03.959 So I said, yeah, And I think the fact that 86 00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:07.519 we're working out together kind of propelled us onward a bit, 87 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:09.079 I think, because I think if we'd done it on 88 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:09.519 our own. 89 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:11.800 We have just given up at some point. 90 00:05:12.199 --> 00:05:13.920 In point of fact, a guy, a friend of ours, 91 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:17.160 Johnny Mains, said to us, after the first book, you 92 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:19.959 can tell you know professional writers, because no professional writer 93 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:24.279 would have attempted what you've done. You know, it was 94 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:29.199 such an incredibly all encompassing thing we did that nobody 95 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:31.879 would attempt it. People would picked one thing that they 96 00:05:31.959 --> 00:05:35.560 pick horror films, they pick TV shows or record whatever. 97 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:37.639 But we did. We try to do everything. 98 00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:41.199 Yeah, I remember he said, a normal human being would 99 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:43.680 have split that book into six books just like that. 100 00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:47.600 So we started writing back and forth. 101 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:52.040 After three and a half very long years, Volume one 102 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:54.639 came out in March twenty seventeen, and we had a 103 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:58.199 conversation the day that Stee was about to hit publish 104 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:00.079 and we're saying, oh, how many you think to go 105 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:00.480 to sell? 106 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:01.720 How many do you think? 107 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:04.240 And Stee that if it sells, I think it was 108 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:07.279 three hundred in my lifetime. 109 00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:07.800 I'll be happy. 110 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:11.000 And I'm the wild optimist here about a thousand, and 111 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:13.040 we've just got a big giddy thinking that a possible. 112 00:06:13.399 --> 00:06:15.279 I think we've reach Steve's targets on day one. 113 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:19.040 Yeah, on day one we read sease. 114 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:21.360 Target day one. And this is all from self promotion. 115 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:24.360 This isn't with any big promotional campaign behinds. This is 116 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:27.759 on Twitter, Facebook, that kind of thing. It's not us 117 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:32.560 having big billboard adverts anywhere. And we reached I think 118 00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:35.120 now that this point we're about over the three books. 119 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:38.079 We've got about twenty twenty four thousand books sold at 120 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:43.279 this point. Yeah, and then blossomed from there. We got 121 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:46.560 a brief radio interview on our local radio station, Radio City, 122 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:49.879 and then we got contact by who's now a good 123 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:52.079 friend of ours, Bob's issue said that you want to 124 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:54.360 come on my radio show and talk about the books, 125 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:57.240 which we did for an hour. A whole hour was 126 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:00.560 devoted to the books on BBC Radio Teas. And then 127 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:02.639 he said, you want to come up and do a 128 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:07.199 compile of live conversation of a small vegan restaurant, you know, 129 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:09.000 And we did that in the back room of that 130 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:12.319 as our sixty people attending it. It was packed out. 131 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:15.240 And then he said basically he said there's some money 132 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:17.439 in this. We could do a live show based on this, 133 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:20.439 and that's how we got into doing the live shows. Yeah, 134 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:21.759 it's gone on from. 135 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:25.639 There, the electronic music record label Castles in Space. There's 136 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:29.560 been two music albums inspired by Scotred for Life and 137 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:31.720 the TV shows we grew up with. We've handed it 138 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:34.920 interest from two TV production companies to turn it into 139 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:39.040 a documentary series. It's bizarrely Yeah, that's the little show 140 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:41.199 that we did with Bob. He said, it proves there's 141 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:43.839 an audience. He said, we can take this on the road. 142 00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:49.120 If we can do a little vegan restaurant in Teesside, 143 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:52.800 we could do Manchester, we can do Birmingham. And we 144 00:07:52.879 --> 00:07:56.399 love doing shows. We love them. They're just meeting the 145 00:07:56.439 --> 00:07:58.959 people who read the books is just lovely. 146 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:01.720 When you put out the first volume, did you call 147 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:03.639 it volume one? Did you know that there was going 148 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:05.199 to be more already? 149 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:08.959 Yeah, it was scard Blake Volume one, the nineteen seventies 150 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:13.160 because originally it seems insane now, but we were going 151 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:16.600 to do everything in one book, which is just ridiculous. 152 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:19.720 So we knew originally we were going to do two. 153 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:23.399 Volume one the seventies Volume two the nineteen eighties, but 154 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:27.560 we realized how much television there was to talk about 155 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:29.439 in the nineteen eighties, so on we had to with 156 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:32.320 the nineteen eighties into two books. So it just became 157 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:34.559 a trilogy because we had to make it a trilogy. 158 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:38.360 Like you said, these books are seven hundred pages for 159 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:42.559 the first one. It's massive. These are massive books. 160 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:45.240 We have volumes one and three about seven and forty 161 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:46.480 pages each, which is the action you can do on 162 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:50.080 our pubishing platform. Therefore forty with that absolute maximum, Volume 163 00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:52.879 two I think is five hundred fifty something like that 164 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:56.440 somewhere around the flave on the bark, so that's two 165 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:58.759 thousand pages worth of material there. I think it's about 166 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:00.799 a third of a million words. This because it's quite 167 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:03.200 a low type as well, so that there's a lot 168 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:03.639 in there. 169 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:05.759 So when there's value four coming out. 170 00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:10.039 This is the thing we get asked more than anything, 171 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:12.759 is when are you doing the nineteen nineties book? And 172 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:16.679 the answer is never, And the reason for that is 173 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:21.240 we made they believe the seventies and eighties are unique decades. 174 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:26.240 The nineties to us personally, the nineties was one long 175 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:30.120 ten year party. It was the only decade decade I've 176 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:34.879 lived through. There was good times. And our scuard Fly 177 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:38.919 era specifically begins with a TV show called The Owl 178 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:42.799 Service in nineteen sixty nine and ends with ghost Watch 179 00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:46.919 in nineteen ninety two, and we believe after that, see 180 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:50.879 the edges are standed off and the safety wheels go 181 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:54.399 back on. We just don't think the nineties isn't this 182 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:58.320 card flight decade at all. It's a specific era. But 183 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:02.200 we do have loads of plans future projects. Next year, 184 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:07.039 we're going to do two short story horror anthologies inspired 185 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:11.039 by the old lurid All horror books that we grew 186 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:13.919 up with. And in twenty twenty six we're going to 187 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:16.480 do a Rito Hardback annual, the kind of things that 188 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:19.279 kids in the seventies eighties they still do, the wake 189 00:10:19.399 --> 00:10:21.679 up on Christmas Day and unwrap your you kind of 190 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:24.440 be no annual or your two thousand and eighty annual. 191 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:26.759 So there'll be full of comic strips and stories and 192 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:29.519 puzzles and things related to what we talk about. 193 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:33.240 Were there shows and movies and things that you guys 194 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:35.320 just weren't aware of when he went into this and 195 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:39.000 that you got turned into absolutely In fact. 196 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:42.120 Even now we still get messages on Facebook on x 197 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:45.559 Twitter as was oh have you seen this, and we go. 198 00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:46.879 Now that's amazing. 199 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:49.000 That would have definitely gone in, would have known about it. 200 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:53.080 So that it's just endless to go back to us. 201 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:54.919 THEA said about the nineties book. The reason I think, 202 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:56.399 as well, we're not going to do a nineties book 203 00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:59.240 is because the seventies and eighties books are about us 204 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:02.039 growing up. So what you've got is the nineteen seventies. 205 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:04.080 It's this little kids sitting here from a teley watching 206 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:07.399 scary things of the telly. Our fears are ghosts and 207 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:10.600 monsters that you see all the TV. And then in 208 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:14.000 the eighties were teenagers going out into the world getting 209 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:14.559 jobs for. 210 00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:15.200 The first time. 211 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:18.879 So our fears are more about unemployment or AIDS or 212 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:23.879 and I particularly talk about in the second book living 213 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:28.039 quite near to Birknhead, place called birk Andhead. Birkenhead used 214 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:31.720 to be a very rich town because of shipbuilding, and 215 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:33.759 then it's on the wrong side of the country rules 216 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:35.279 like the history of the ship building has gone away, 217 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:39.080 so it's very poor out. I talk about visiting the 218 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:40.799 local I'm trying to use. 219 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:42.200 The Bacon word garbage dump. 220 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:45.480 Where you'd see people unemployed, people waiting to put through 221 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:47.600 the bellache and I find something to they can sell 222 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:51.240 or use. So it was a very deprived time. But 223 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:54.399 our fears are real. They're not the monsters and ghost 224 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:56.240 any well. The real things was getting off. 225 00:11:57.799 --> 00:12:01.799 Nutrier wore a third of volume three devoted to nuclear war, because, 226 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:05.279 as Dave said, things got real for us. And I 227 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:08.759 remember the period between nineteen eighty three and nineteen eighty four. 228 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:12.440 I don't exaggerate. Every single day I would think, is 229 00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:14.960 this the day they pressed the button? And yeah, we 230 00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:18.600 were still going to see Ghostbusters and Gremlins and listening 231 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:22.639 to Juran, But the idea that we might die any 232 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:26.039 day randomly was always in the back of our head. 233 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:28.360 I think days, right, It's who we were, It's what 234 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.440 those decades were. In the nineties, and obviously every decade 235 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:35.000 as it's bad moments. But all I can remember is 236 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:38.320 going out clubbing. Everyone was drunk, everyone was on ecstasy, 237 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:40.919 was a party, and I think part of that was 238 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:43.519 a reaction to the idea that we survived the eighties, 239 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:46.399 we got through it. Let's just have some good times. 240 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:49.519 The reason these books are called Scarred for Life is 241 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:52.840 because people our age always say only God, you remember 242 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:55.720 that scene from that TV Do you remember the window 243 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:59.159 scene from Salem's Lot Starred Me for Life? Do you 244 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:02.519 remember whatever scenes from a film it's garn me for life. 245 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:05.200 There's not much from the nineties that I can say, Oh, 246 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:08.159 it's got me for life. People always say when me, 247 00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:11.279 and they've post things on social media loads of the 248 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:14.039 reactions to always I can't believe we survived the seventies 249 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:17.399 or eighties. Both people will only ever say that about 250 00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:21.799 the nineties in relation to the amounts of drinking jokes. 251 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:23.039 It's a different. 252 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:28.559 It is amazing speaking of nuclear war. Of course, you've 253 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:30.960 got movies like The Day After in Threads where they're 254 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:35.000 just directly looking at this, but then it seeps into everything. 255 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:39.639 It seeps into the TV shows that you're watching, or 256 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:42.639 even the comedy film you look at like real Genius 257 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:46.120 or spies like Gus when they were talking about missile 258 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:51.399 defense systems and deterrence for nuclear missiles coming in. It's 259 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:57.039 just amazing how even our comedies were scarred or with 260 00:13:58.120 --> 00:13:59.279 the politics of the time. 261 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:01.879 Absolutely, there was a comedy series in Britain called Three 262 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:05.000 of a Kai, which had three comedians acting out very sketches, 263 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:08.559 and one of the sketches is about the four minute warning, 264 00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:11.159 the nuclear alert warning going off, and two of the 265 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:12.919 characters are going to have sex because I think they 266 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:14.559 can think to do for the four minutes they've got left. 267 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:17.320 That still always says in the live shows, anybody can 268 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:20.519 get and maintain an erection in the last four minutes 269 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:22.679 of your life when you're about to get new it's 270 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.120 a better man than me, and me as well. But yeah, 271 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:28.480 it was everywhere. It was in comedy and in particular 272 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:30.279 I mentioned this to you before the start of the recording. 273 00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:31.320 It was in music. 274 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:34.639 We do a top ten nuclear pop songs in our 275 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:38.000 live shows, and it was a big test to cut 276 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:40.120 it down to ten nuclear war songs. 277 00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:40.679 There's a lot. 278 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:43.360 A number one obviously is the classic Frank he goes 279 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:46.480 to Hollywood two Tribes, so there's a lot in that. 280 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:47.879 Yeah. 281 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:51.360 It was in comic We had nuclear war in comics 282 00:14:51.559 --> 00:14:55.519 two thousand and eight. Judge Dread the flagshied character. There's 283 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:58.120 a story from nineteen eighty two called the Apocalypse Tour 284 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:01.960 where Mega City Jude dread City goes to war with 285 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:06.000 the sobs and they obliterate half the city and kill 286 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:08.679 four hundred million people, and the after effects of that 287 00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:11.720 story is still being felt today. And I'm a big 288 00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:15.840 computer game of video gamer and board gamer. Nuclear War 289 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:18.200 was in board games and video games, and there's a 290 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.840 game called Supremacy, a board game from the eighties, which 291 00:15:21.879 --> 00:15:25.559 is quite risk. It's all the players trying to take 292 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:29.039 over the world, but if it gets to death con one, 293 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:32.480 you can start flinging nukes that you know the players. 294 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:35.679 So it came with little black plastic mushroom clouds that 295 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:37.600 you put on the board so no one could joint 296 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:41.720 to those territories. So, yeah, there's a strange time. 297 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:45.159 That's amazing. Wow, what were some of the things that 298 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:47.480 you discovered while you were doing your research that you 299 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:50.559 hadn't been aware of before, because of course you're coming 300 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:52.879 from a very personal place as far as these things 301 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:55.879 scarred me. But as you're looking at the other material 302 00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:57.840 that you weren't aware of, what we were just like, 303 00:15:57.879 --> 00:15:59.559 oh my god, I can't believe this exists. 304 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:04.960 There's a TV show called Shadows of Fear from the 305 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:11.039 early seventies. It's a psychological thriller anthology with an incredibly 306 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:14.919 nasty streak, and it just fell down the back of 307 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:18.240 the sofa of television history, and I remember watching it. 308 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:20.399 I found out about it, read about it, thought this 309 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:23.320 sounded like God's Wife material. It's one of the best 310 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:27.519 things I've ever seen in my life. It's unrelentingly nasty, 311 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:29.679 and it was one of the things that made me 312 00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:33.960 think this era was just full of genuinely full of 313 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:36.200 some of the best television ever made. But I think 314 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:39.039 we churned it out and we became used to it. 315 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:42.000 I know people have watched Shadow for Shadows of Fear 316 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:44.480 for the first time. We were Twitter followers, Facebook followers, 317 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:47.200 and he always come back and goes it was incredible. 318 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:48.159 I've never even heard of it. 319 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:49.159 I've never seen. 320 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:51.759 Anything written about it, but there was shadow of things 321 00:16:51.799 --> 00:16:55.480 like that were amazing, but just became forgotten. 322 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:58.919 I've course I've just remembered too, in particular one called 323 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:02.080 scarf Jack that I sent it to you. 324 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:03.960 I sent the link to you to know something the 325 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:04.480 look at this. 326 00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:07.559 Do you remember my reaction? The thing it was, there's 327 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:11.559 about twenty five shocked baship, which we have. 328 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:13.759 This concept in our books as a thing called the 329 00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:17.240 four forty five club, and what it is is basically 330 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:20.119 rich Telly when you got home from school. In the 331 00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:23.559 acting about four ish, four fifteen, four twenty would be 332 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:25.720 something very gently it'll be a puppet show on and 333 00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:30.359 something like that. Four forty five The gloves Rough the 334 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:33.759 programs they showed at four forty five were unrelentfully grim 335 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:37.079 and scary and they're horrible. One in particular, Thestashi's till 336 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:41.000 talk about very briefly. There's one called calf Jack, set 337 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:44.799 during the Irish Rebellion of seventeen ninety two, I think, 338 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:50.640 and Irish villagers being essentially progress are all shot by 339 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:53.480 British soldier English soldiers. This, by the way, it's on 340 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:55.799 TV at the same time as the Northern Ireland troubles 341 00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:59.240 are going under, the ira abobbing campaigns, hungry strikes were 342 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:02.160 going on and the else. It was a very unfatching 343 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:08.359 depiction of British basically English forces in Ireland. And the 344 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:12.440 reason he's called scarf Jack is that in the first 345 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:17.400 episode he is hanged. Two people game give him news 346 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:20.079 around his neck, string them from a tree and then 347 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:23.559 they talk about their future plans. While in the foreground, 348 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:27.359 the two legs of the victim are swinging slowly backwards 349 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:30.720 and forwards across the screen. That was a kid's program 350 00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:33.519 at four forty five in the afternoon. 351 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.400 Dave, Dave, do you remember you sent me screen grabs 352 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:39.759 of the opening thirty seconds. 353 00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:41.200 With all the children with the blood creer like they've 354 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:41.799 been shot dead. 355 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:47.160 Yeah, but literally like children lying in a river with 356 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:49.839 blood pouring from the nose, blood pouring from the ears 357 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:51.880 because they've been shot dead. And it's just the opening 358 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:53.480 of a kid show. 359 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:56.200 The other one, I think we talked about absolute classic. 360 00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:58.440 If anybody wants to watch, it's called one called Noah's Castle. 361 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:03.079 Noah's Castle is again. This is sudden TV problems in 362 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:06.960 that era which TV had various regions and the regions 363 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.240 played their own program that the phone network, and this 364 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:16.279 was Southern TV. And it's about a near future Britain 365 00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:22.240 in which something has happened has caused hyperinflation, invasions out 366 00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:26.559 of control, and people are starving to death, bodies in 367 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:30.240 the streets starves to death, and it is heavily implied 368 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:35.720 that schoolgirls are prostituting themselves for food. Again, this is 369 00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:40.559 a kid's show at four in the afternoon. It's about 370 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:43.799 a man who holds food which is has been made 371 00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:46.720 a crime. He's holding food and he's prepared to protect 372 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:50.200 it with a gun. There's one point son finds out 373 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:52.119 he's holding food and I look like he's gonna shoot when. 374 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:54.359 You believe he's gonna shoot him, it's a protect his secret. 375 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.519 And also the father invites into the home is former 376 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:05.480 boss who is basically to keep his secrets. He's prepared 377 00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:08.359 to pimp out his own seinage daughter and possibly even 378 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:12.799 his younger one was from tech. If this absolutely ever 379 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:18.279 left in my math, but again the kids four forty 380 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:21.119 five in the afternoon, these are things I discovered when 381 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:22.680 raving the first. 382 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:24.880 I found it very interesting reading your book because of 383 00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:28.119 course you're coming from a British perspective. I'm here with 384 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:32.440 my American perspective. But our countries were so tied together, 385 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:36.880 especially between Maggie and Ronald. And you'd see even going 386 00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:39.359 back to what was that TV show that you guys 387 00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:43.480 had that inspired the Genesis video with all the puppets 388 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:47.839 splitting image, spit spitting image, right, splitting image. 389 00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:49.920 They were two of the main characters. 390 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:53.079 A lot of times it was a special relationship, was 391 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:55.160 a big thit. We had a lot of American imports 392 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:58.279 in the seventies, but the nineteen eighties was when the 393 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:04.000 floodgates opened and we were constantly getting these what felt 394 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:09.599 like to us impossibly glossy, almost like phil Nic American shows, 395 00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:11.920 who get the A Team and Night Rider and a 396 00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:16.839 she wrote and everything, absolutely everything. That's why in volume 397 00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:20.759 one there's very little American stuff in the first book. 398 00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:23.319 But in the second book that we did you'll see, 399 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:26.440 like we do bits about the animations. 400 00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:26.400 That came over. 401 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:31.359