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<v Speaker 1>Get ready for.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, August six, twenty twenty five. Allegedly, according to that

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<v Speaker 2>thing we call a calendar, this is the Ocelli effect,

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<v Speaker 2>and we do this live sometimes. Now. Gotta tell you,

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<v Speaker 2>I am going to reduce schedule lately, and I am

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<v Speaker 2>only only doing the shows that are being requested by

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<v Speaker 2>people that support the network. So that's it. That's the

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<v Speaker 2>cut down schedule right now until I can maneuver and

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<v Speaker 2>get a few things done and fix some problems. And

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<v Speaker 2>we're not going to go into that anymore. It is

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<v Speaker 2>a Wednesday Wednesday. And you know what's funny, I'm real

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<v Speaker 2>happy to have Larry Hancock with us. And I know Larry,

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<v Speaker 2>I told you Harry Hancock. That's hilarious. Larry Hancock, whose

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<v Speaker 2>name I've said a thousand times, and I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>how many times I've screwed it up, but I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think it's that many. Anyway, Allergies getting in my way

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<v Speaker 2>on a and you know, everybody requests Larry. It is

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<v Speaker 2>usually very highly informative, sometimes extremely entertaining when we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>to Larry, and I'm extremely grateful to probably have him

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<v Speaker 2>as the longest running He's not a guest on this show.

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<v Speaker 2>He's a co host basically, and I'm happy to have

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<v Speaker 2>him along anytime, but here in August for God's sake,

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<v Speaker 2>of twenty twenty five. It's been a while, and I

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<v Speaker 2>got to say every single time he's on, I learned something,

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<v Speaker 2>so I know you guys too. Go to Larrydshancock dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, we're going to focus on some issues that

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<v Speaker 2>might relate to one of Larry's latest books, and one

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<v Speaker 2>of the best, really, even though I highly recommend them all,

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<v Speaker 2>The Oswald Puzzle, which is co authored with David Boyle,

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<v Speaker 2>in whose name I pronounced differently every time I say it,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm hoping that they'll be presenting at Lancer in

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<v Speaker 2>some fashion this year. Well, I'll be there, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was even talking for a little bit, and we went

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<v Speaker 2>to air late in order so that I could discuss

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<v Speaker 2>a few issues with Larry just before with what I

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<v Speaker 2>plan to present, because he's probably the only guy who

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<v Speaker 2>woman to take advice from. And I might do something

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<v Speaker 2>a little weird Atlanta this year and we'll see how

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<v Speaker 2>it's received. Anyway, Hey, why not? You got to take

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<v Speaker 2>a shot Larry. How are you this Wednesday evening? First

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<v Speaker 2>of all, I'm.

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<v Speaker 3>Doing good, Chuck. We had a little break in our

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<v Speaker 3>heat wave last week. It was cooler for at least

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<v Speaker 3>a few days. We had some brain Now we're going

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<v Speaker 3>back into August weather. But that kind of relieved things.

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<v Speaker 3>Although I have the same sinus problems you're having, so good,

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<v Speaker 3>but sinus is with us at summer.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, who wants to complain. I mean, my eyes

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<v Speaker 2>are running, my nose is running. I guess if they

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<v Speaker 2>all run in the same direction, it won't hurt so much.

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<v Speaker 2>But anyway, look, there has been and I just want

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<v Speaker 2>to get right into the subject matter. There has been

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<v Speaker 2>some talk lately, and finally, uh, you know, Jeff Morley

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<v Speaker 2>got part of what it is, at least in part.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure he got all of what he wanted,

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<v Speaker 2>but part of what was denied to him by Brett

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<v Speaker 2>Kavanaugh finally not too long ago, you know, being given

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<v Speaker 2>to him as in the Joe and Needy stuff, right,

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<v Speaker 2>And there was a bit of celebration, There was a

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<v Speaker 2>bit of understanding, it seemed like, and then everybody kind

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<v Speaker 2>of went back to sleep as per normal, or they

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<v Speaker 2>tried to convolute it with other events that involved let's say,

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<v Speaker 2>government transparency, criminal Acts Intelligence. Maybe yeah, I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 2>avoid saying Epstein, But what am I going to do?

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<v Speaker 2>The Epstein files? The you know, show us the show

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<v Speaker 2>us the files, show us the information. And the general

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<v Speaker 2>public now is kind of a sleep on JFK because well,

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<v Speaker 2>they're giving us MLK files on they need to give

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<v Speaker 2>us the Epstein files. They already gave us the JFK files,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's happening. And I'm just being blunt here and

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<v Speaker 2>trying to summarize in case, you know, nobody's keeping score

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<v Speaker 2>at home. Seems like, what do you think of this?

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<v Speaker 2>And what is happening here? Because I'm seeing what Jef's writing.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm seeing that he's still doing you know that podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>He's had a lot to say. Some of his supporters

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<v Speaker 2>have written supportive articles about this. I know what my

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<v Speaker 2>thoughts are after looking over what has been released, and

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<v Speaker 2>you might be able to tell. I'm thinking there's more

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<v Speaker 2>they should have given him. But you know, you can

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<v Speaker 2>leave it there and say, first of all, what the

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<v Speaker 2>hell took so long? Because you know, and you've got

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<v Speaker 2>to be read into this. I'm not going to waste

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<v Speaker 2>Larry's time by explaining to you. Although Larry could probably

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<v Speaker 2>give you a quick summary about you know what it

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<v Speaker 2>is I'm talking about here. Why is Joe Needy's important

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<v Speaker 2>for various reasons and everything else? And why was he

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<v Speaker 2>covered up? There might be multiple reasons for that, and

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<v Speaker 2>what the hell is the difference when it comes to it.

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<v Speaker 2>He's not a shooter, He's not Oswald. But you know, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>here we go, Larry. I know I've thrown you a

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<v Speaker 2>terribly wobbly spitball here, but I'm conn I believe you

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<v Speaker 2>could at least get a base hit out of this. So,

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<v Speaker 2>by all means, where should we take this for people

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<v Speaker 2>that are somewhat read into it, because that's all the

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<v Speaker 2>people that are going to want to hear this. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I think one of the interesting things about it, Chuck,

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<v Speaker 3>is that Jeff has had probably more response, more luck,

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<v Speaker 3>more visibility with portions of the media, not the entire media,

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<v Speaker 3>not the mainstream media. To some he's add more receptivity

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<v Speaker 3>to this story and of the fact that clearly there's

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<v Speaker 3>something sensitive going on in regard to Lee, Harvey Oswald

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<v Speaker 3>and the CIA. I mean just that basic theme. It's like, okay, ouch,

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<v Speaker 3>because there's no reason for the CIA to have been

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<v Speaker 3>as obstructionist.

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<v Speaker 4>As they were there.

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<v Speaker 3>So the media is responsive to that, I would say

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<v Speaker 3>in large And what it was perhaps surprising is that

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<v Speaker 3>to me, the research community has not been They've let

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<v Speaker 3>themselves be diverted. Maybe it's sensory overload, you know, by

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<v Speaker 3>everything quote unquote being released at once, although it really hasn't.

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<v Speaker 3>We all know that, but like you're getting questions about

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<v Speaker 3>so many things at once, and you're curious, and have

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<v Speaker 3>you read through the five thousand MLK files? No? I haven't, Well,

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<v Speaker 3>then we can't talk about it yet because you haven't read. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>just just that level of the the community trying to

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<v Speaker 3>respond to all of this at one time, it has

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<v Speaker 3>not been very effective. The only the only really insightful, straightforward,

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<v Speaker 3>pithy response I've seen to it is Malcolm Blunt's article

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<v Speaker 3>about you know, yes there is something here, Yeah, there's

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<v Speaker 3>some things that we could do, and Malcolm essentially challenging

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<v Speaker 3>all the people that were saying it's a nothing burger

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<v Speaker 3>because it was not at all nothing burger. But Malcolm

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<v Speaker 3>kind of stands alone in that regard. The the research

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<v Speaker 3>community is not following the story the lead that Jeff

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<v Speaker 3>produced and that's that's a bit depressing. Now agreed to

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<v Speaker 3>follow his lead. You've got to know a lot, You've

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<v Speaker 3>got to have a lot of context. But but there

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<v Speaker 3>are people that do have that, and if if they're following,

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<v Speaker 3>I guess the good news is if they're seriously following it,

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<v Speaker 3>they're following it to the extent that they're not talking

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<v Speaker 3>about it because they're too busy. And the people that

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<v Speaker 3>just get on boards and chat and like bring up

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<v Speaker 3>the same things over and over again haven't changed. They're

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<v Speaker 3>not engaging at all with it. Really, So yeah, I

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<v Speaker 3>think my general response is there's a lot of potential

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<v Speaker 3>and just the administrative file that Jeff got, there's a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of potential in getting the operational files that that

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<v Speaker 3>points to that might tell us some really serious and

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<v Speaker 3>props even incriminating stuff. But the one thing that puzzles

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<v Speaker 3>me is all of us conspiracy folks have said for years, Oh,

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<v Speaker 3>you're not going to find a report that says this

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<v Speaker 3>is how somebody killed the president. You know, a file,

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<v Speaker 3>a document. Yeah, we looked at it, we investigated it's here.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, you're not going to found that sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 3>And now when we get the joint Edies file. Everybody

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<v Speaker 3>is going, well, now the CEEIA didn't give us the

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<v Speaker 3>smoking gun, or are we expecting it? I don't think so.

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<v Speaker 2>Well. Here's the other thing I need to ask right

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<v Speaker 2>here in this context, and that is, and I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>going to point the finger at any particular platform, but

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<v Speaker 2>I am going to suggest that it represents the current

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<v Speaker 2>culture of communication when you are restricted to two hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and eighty characters to try and make a point, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>and people already are not receptive, open minded, or looking

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<v Speaker 2>to cooperate as a general condition. Because we've seen this

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<v Speaker 2>shift in the in the research community, we've seen the

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<v Speaker 2>shift in the general public. Nobody wants to work with anybody.

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<v Speaker 2>You disagree with me, you're out. God. Uh okay, that's

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<v Speaker 2>just the culture. I'm not even pointing a finger in

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<v Speaker 2>any left or right direction. I'm saying that's the culture,

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<v Speaker 2>but also the culture of communication, keep it keep it real, pithy,

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<v Speaker 2>so much so that it doesn't carry very much information,

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<v Speaker 2>but must make a strong declaration. This just seems to

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<v Speaker 2>be the cultural shift in my mind. So you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the younger people are not going to do any better

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<v Speaker 2>the older people that are setting the ways they're not

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<v Speaker 2>going to do any better. The people that refuse to

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<v Speaker 2>use a computer mostly are dead now, but still right,

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<v Speaker 2>nobody is going to cooperate correctly, and nobody is going

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<v Speaker 2>to communicate correctly, and that means they're not going to

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<v Speaker 2>receive or send correctly at this point to make an

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<v Speaker 2>actual point with context and texture or am I just

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<v Speaker 2>you know, being picky about you know, modern tech and

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<v Speaker 2>getting my grumpy old man on even though I'm only

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<v Speaker 2>in my fifties here, Larry, I mean going. You can

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<v Speaker 2>tell me I can handle it.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I think we've fallen into a bit of a

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<v Speaker 3>trap in the vehicles we're using. As you say, our

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<v Speaker 3>bandwidths have really been dialed down there are you know,

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<v Speaker 3>every everybody wants to see something addressed, you know, like

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<v Speaker 3>give me the fact in five sentences or I'll move

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<v Speaker 3>on to something else, you know, like was it in

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<v Speaker 3>the text? No it didn't fit. Sorry. I have a

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<v Speaker 3>problem with a lot these days because someone will want

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<v Speaker 3>to talk to me and have a question. Let's say

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<v Speaker 3>it's about Oswa, Mexico City, and you know it's really

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<v Speaker 3>if you don't have the full story, the full background,

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<v Speaker 3>the field context, you and I can't really discuss it.

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<v Speaker 3>So the best I can do is refer refer them

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<v Speaker 3>to the book, because otherwise I'm not doing them a favor.

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<v Speaker 3>They're not going to get what they want. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>are they going to get a yes or no? Was

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<v Speaker 3>he there? Was he not there? Yes or no is

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<v Speaker 3>not a good answer, you know, a on these complex subjects,

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<v Speaker 3>you you can't you can't compress it to a character limit.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so No, you're absolutely right. And interestingly, I see

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<v Speaker 3>even on forums that I visit a lot shorter post

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<v Speaker 3>where people seem to compel to say, oh, I agree

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<v Speaker 3>with you, or I agree with that post, or I

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<v Speaker 3>don't agree with that post, or you know, let me

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<v Speaker 3>post something I posted fifty times before in response to this,

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<v Speaker 3>just so you're forced to read it again. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>the threads get derailed, and there's just no coherent dialogue

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<v Speaker 3>on these things that are really complex history. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>you don't discuss history with you know, soundbites just doesn't

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<v Speaker 3>work that way.

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<v Speaker 2>No, And that's the bottom line. It's not soundbites. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not going to be in a you know, in a

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<v Speaker 2>TikTok video, it's not going to be in a tweet

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<v Speaker 2>it's not in the abbreviated form that you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>be able to do this unless you can think it's

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<v Speaker 2>super speed, and I don't know too many people that can.

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<v Speaker 2>I gotta be honest. Nobody thinks as quickly and goes

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<v Speaker 2>through material as quickly as you know a super speed reader.

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<v Speaker 2>They just don't. So they're not absorbing any of the

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<v Speaker 2>nuances and understanding that you know, a connection to or

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<v Speaker 2>a somebody who's working for, or somebody who's a contract agent,

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<v Speaker 2>or somebody who's an asset, whether knowing or unknowing, these

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<v Speaker 2>are nuances and differences in these narratives that nobody's picking

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<v Speaker 2>up on anything new. They are just you know, repeating

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<v Speaker 2>their own positions and therefore paying no attention to any

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<v Speaker 2>progress that's being made or redefining of any terms, people's

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<v Speaker 2>positions or anything else that could be had even in

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<v Speaker 2>their own paradigms. If they just realized something might have

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<v Speaker 2>changed here, we might have learned something new. Collectively. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>see there's my problem right there. Nobody thinks there is

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<v Speaker 2>a collective. There's only the camps and the compartmentalized algorithm,

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<v Speaker 2>and that is where people are living. And I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>just talking about on the computers, I mean in their

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<v Speaker 2>personal lives and their willingness to engage. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean people talk about the Socratic methods still, but

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<v Speaker 2>they don't use it. Nobody gets together and has a

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<v Speaker 2>discussion anymore, where a actual debate. They think a debate

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<v Speaker 2>is when you lose. That's not the purpose of a debate. Actually,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I mean, yeah, everybody likes the win and loss,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're Americans, we love that sort of conflict, but

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<v Speaker 2>that's not the full purpose of a debate. And that's

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<v Speaker 2>not how you're going to learn anything, because if you

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<v Speaker 2>think you know it already, what's the purpose of learning anything. See,

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<v Speaker 2>here's the problem, right, And I'm talking about psychology as

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<v Speaker 2>opposed to even the technology here or again, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I accept, No, you mean a grumpy old man truck.

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<v Speaker 2>You're just saying these kids don't know what the doing.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not even saying the kids, because I see this

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<v Speaker 2>in people older than me, younger than me, my age.

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<v Speaker 2>It doesn't matter. It's across the board, it seems like.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that's one of the major problems. But

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<v Speaker 2>let's put that aside. Can you talk to me about

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<v Speaker 2>what it is that people could see here if they

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<v Speaker 2>were willing to listen, if they were willing to see

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<v Speaker 2>the progress a couple of points. Maybe not you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the same points that Jep's making, but maybe you see

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<v Speaker 2>some progress here. Malcolm sees some progress. And Malcolm Brunn

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<v Speaker 2>is one of the best brains on this case that

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<v Speaker 2>we have that people should really have utilized differently earlier on,

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<v Speaker 2>but didn't. Only a few very intelligent people did. Just

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<v Speaker 2>in praise to Malcolm Brunt right here, Okay, because I

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to just say nice things about people when

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<v Speaker 2>they're gone. Okay, here we go. What is your thought

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<v Speaker 2>about that? What is it that we could learn here

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<v Speaker 2>if we were willing to pick up and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>follow the newly presented pieces of evidence here that obviously

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<v Speaker 2>had some import because they hit it for over a decade.

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<v Speaker 2>They sent the guy to the Supreme Court, who basically

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<v Speaker 2>killed it in court for Jeff to begin with, and

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<v Speaker 2>without the special circumstance of his connection to Representative Luna

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<v Speaker 2>and a few other pieces of luck, Jeff might have

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<v Speaker 2>never seen this while he was alive. Let's be honest.

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<v Speaker 2>Other researchers have died waiting to get documents and Jeff

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<v Speaker 2>might have done the same, even though he starts out

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<v Speaker 2>as a reporter, as a guy trying to put together

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<v Speaker 2>a story as you know the author, or that it's

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<v Speaker 2>a long journey Jeff's been on. Some people have been

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<v Speaker 2>on longer ones, I admit. But let's talk about what

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<v Speaker 2>it is that he may have finally loosed that we

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<v Speaker 2>could take further in your mind.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think one of the big takeaways is confirmation

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<v Speaker 3>Jeff had been told over a number of years by

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<v Speaker 3>people within the student directorate that they had been providing

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<v Speaker 3>detailed information on Oswle's activities in New Orleans. Is his

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<v Speaker 3>media visibility, his political stance to the CIA, and that

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<v Speaker 3>would have been reported up within the CIA organization at JM.

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<v Speaker 3>Waven Miami, up within the Specialistairs Affair staff, going up

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<v Speaker 3>to Des Fitzgerald, going up to J. C.

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<v Speaker 2>King.

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<v Speaker 3>We know enough to know how the information should have traveled.

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<v Speaker 3>We basically we would have known enough to know a

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<v Speaker 3>number of names of significant people that would have been

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<v Speaker 3>aware of what Oswald was doing. And we know that

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<v Speaker 3>because we've seen other memoranda and paper trails on people

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<v Speaker 3>of much less significance. You know, I will give an example.

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<v Speaker 3>An example would be that a Cuban reported another Cuban

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<v Speaker 3>in Miami of being a potential CIA deep asset. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>this guy is just your every day you know, works

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<v Speaker 3>for cleaners, he works in manual labor. They report him

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<v Speaker 3>to the CIA, they report him to the FBI, and

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<v Speaker 3>for two years they try to investigate this guy to

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<v Speaker 3>see what his real alliances are. How do we know

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<v Speaker 3>about this Well, actually, in Dallas, Walter Heypman, FBI subversive

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<v Speaker 3>desk guy in Dallas, is still working on this case

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<v Speaker 3>in November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, a year after

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<v Speaker 3>it started. Because this guy's now living in Dallas and

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<v Speaker 3>they're still investigating him, and they don't finish that investigation

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<v Speaker 3>for another eight months after the assassination because Heypman is

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<v Speaker 3>pulled off to work on the JFK inquiry. So this

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<v Speaker 3>is like a trivial person, you know, not visible in

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<v Speaker 3>the media, not with an obvious political He's just a

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<v Speaker 3>kind of a suspect. We don't know if he's Procastro,

309
00:19:10.759 --> 00:19:14.759
<v Speaker 3>we don't know if he's anti Castro. But it's minutia

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<v Speaker 3>and we have a paper trail on that within the

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<v Speaker 3>CIA and the FBI. And yet what we find with Oswald,

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<v Speaker 3>even though they know about Oswald and the Cubans have

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<v Speaker 3>been telling him about Oswald and running their own propaganda,

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<v Speaker 3>which Jeff is confirmed that disappears within the CIA. Now,

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<v Speaker 3>their their position has always been, oh, well, we didn't,

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<v Speaker 3>it's not in the case officers materials. We didn't. We

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<v Speaker 3>disclaim all the knowledge of this because this guy Joannides

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<v Speaker 3>is not the Howard that they were talking to that

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<v Speaker 3>they told you, Jeff, He's not you know, he's not

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<v Speaker 3>even in our files. He's not different guys, you must

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<v Speaker 3>be wrong. They must be wrong. Now we know that's

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<v Speaker 3>all not true. That information was being passed in great detail,

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<v Speaker 3>and it starts not showing up in places we should

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<v Speaker 3>be able to look for it because these people have

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<v Speaker 3>day jobs. It's a bureaucracy. I was just looking at

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<v Speaker 3>a case file on the headquarters file on the student

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<v Speaker 3>director that goes into great detail. In fact, there's one

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<v Speaker 3>entry registrate that says, oh, there were these students that

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<v Speaker 3>were on the air in New York City and they've

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<v Speaker 3>been to Cuba and they were promoting the Cuban experience.

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<v Speaker 3>And yes, the DRE is going to is going to

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<v Speaker 3>respond to it, you know, counter this media. Well, heck,

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<v Speaker 3>we have a major media confrontation in New Orleans between

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<v Speaker 3>Oswald and Vre that goes into multiple venues over several weeks.

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<v Speaker 3>That doesn't even show up in this dre case file.

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<v Speaker 2>Why not right now? This is now let me just

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<v Speaker 2>interrupt with this because this is very important. You bring

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<v Speaker 2>up the Howard issue. To my mind, first of all,

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<v Speaker 2>we need to define the difference between what something suggests

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<v Speaker 2>and what something proves. And for a long time we've

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<v Speaker 2>known that this was suggested. Many things were suggested that

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<v Speaker 2>have now been proven by these files. Like you said, confirmation,

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<v Speaker 2>We now have confirmation to certain things. But the Howard issue,

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<v Speaker 2>to my mind, there's more than one Howard. This is

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<v Speaker 2>what the thing is. Howard is almost like a title,

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<v Speaker 2>not even a person. Okay, in my mind, that's what

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00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:41.559
<v Speaker 2>it suggests. Now. I have not thoroughly gone through this

348
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<v Speaker 2>as well as some others, but that's what I see there.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what I see the potential for for certain. In

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<v Speaker 2>addition to that, do we get at any of the

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<v Speaker 2>Joe and Needy stuff involving is then later on interactions

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<v Speaker 2>in the investigation, or do we have to piece that together,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, because they told the House Select Committee, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what do you want? We want people that

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<v Speaker 2>had no connection to any of the events in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>sixty three, and they were lied to. I'm probably gonna

357
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<v Speaker 2>have to turn my mic down because I think I

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<v Speaker 2>hear the dogs getting upset about something. But anyway, the

359
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:19.839
<v Speaker 2>thing is, this is a series question here, right, the

360
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<v Speaker 2>after action and the Howard issue. If you don't mind,

361
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<v Speaker 2>just go back over that Howard thing real quick because

362
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<v Speaker 2>they might have missed it. And yeah, talk to me

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<v Speaker 2>about this House Select Committee thing and Joan's involvement. And

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<v Speaker 2>again I'm gonna kill my mic quickly just to keep

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<v Speaker 2>the dogs out because I want them to hear you

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<v Speaker 2>marry more than anything. God.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>And the Howard thing, the good news is that was

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<v Speaker 3>resolved in the admin file because all the questions about

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<v Speaker 3>it might have been another Howard. Officially there was no Howard,

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<v Speaker 3>there was no Howard alias. The admin file that was

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<v Speaker 3>released to Jeff shows that indeed there was a cover backstop.

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<v Speaker 3>For example, one example it in there is is a

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<v Speaker 3>driver's license in the name of Howard and with his residence,

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<v Speaker 3>and clearly there was a cover for and this is

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<v Speaker 3>for join Edes. By the way, there was a cover

377
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<v Speaker 3>for Joines to operate as Howard, which was the name

378
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<v Speaker 3>that was used with the Cubans. It was that the

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<v Speaker 3>name on the address that the Cubans were given to

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<v Speaker 3>send information to, So that that was resolved in the

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<v Speaker 3>admin file there you know, as to whether or not

382
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<v Speaker 3>it was you know, kind of a soft file situation

383
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:39.519
<v Speaker 3>where it was only known at jam wave and maybe

384
00:23:39.559 --> 00:23:43.279
<v Speaker 3>it was lonely a local AVOs and not a headquarters alias,

385
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<v Speaker 3>and debate that all day long, but the file itself

386
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:50.240
<v Speaker 3>shows that clearly a backstop cover had been put in place,

387
00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:54.759
<v Speaker 3>including a driver's license for joint eds as the Howard

388
00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:58.880
<v Speaker 3>that the Cubans were were contacting and providing information to.

389
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:02.200
<v Speaker 3>So that got resolved, which is a big deal because

390
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:07.039
<v Speaker 3>now that's not even it's not even argument. What what,

391
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:11.440
<v Speaker 3>of course is not resolved is that what was given

392
00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:15.799
<v Speaker 3>to Morley is just the admin file. And you don't

393
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:21.240
<v Speaker 3>find operational level activities in an admin file. At best.

394
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<v Speaker 3>You might find some promotions, some you know, job endorsements

395
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<v Speaker 3>or evaluations. You know, we're talking about a regular business

396
00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:33.920
<v Speaker 3>admin file. So no one would have expected or should

397
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:37.640
<v Speaker 3>have expected anything explosive in that. In fact, it's kind

398
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:42.640
<v Speaker 3>of amazing that that backstop cover showed up there tom

399
00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:43.759
<v Speaker 3>of the driver's license.

400
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<v Speaker 2>To translate this, this is the same type of file

401
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:49.880
<v Speaker 2>that I might have kept on an employee when I

402
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:53.519
<v Speaker 2>ran businesses. That's all this is in an agency sense,

403
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:56.119
<v Speaker 2>it's you know, this is what the guy did. This

404
00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:59.799
<v Speaker 2>is any major incidents, This is his promotions, his position,

405
00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:03.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, this kind of thing. That's what he really

406
00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:08.079
<v Speaker 2>got his confirmation that this guy was you know, official reagency.

407
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<v Speaker 2>And some of those details are helpful, but I mean,

408
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<v Speaker 2>am I essentially correct or is that really the bottom line?

409
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<v Speaker 3>That's absolutely there, although one of the sometimes you can

410
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<v Speaker 3>you can pull stuff out of that. For example, another

411
00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:25.720
<v Speaker 3>thing in the file was the fact that he had

412
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<v Speaker 3>gone had to go through another security clearance and a

413
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:33.880
<v Speaker 3>special security check to give him the clearance to assign

414
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<v Speaker 3>him to a new project in the late spring of

415
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:40.319
<v Speaker 3>nineteen sixty three. Doesn't name the project, doesn't give us

416
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:42.720
<v Speaker 3>a crypt for the project, but we can see he

417
00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:45.000
<v Speaker 3>had to go to that process. So he had been

418
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:49.279
<v Speaker 3>assigned as a case officer, fairly routine staff job, even

419
00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:52.640
<v Speaker 3>though at a high level, I mean, because he's not

420
00:25:52.839 --> 00:25:57.640
<v Speaker 3>operating just individuals. He's operating groups. The our student director

421
00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:01.160
<v Speaker 3>as a group, not an individual. He's a case officer

422
00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:04.599
<v Speaker 3>at a higher level than most. But he's being assigned

423
00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:08.200
<v Speaker 3>to something beyond that. That's really special that we don't

424
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:10.480
<v Speaker 3>we don't know what it is. We know it's something

425
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:14.480
<v Speaker 3>new going on. It wave and that provides us a

426
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:17.400
<v Speaker 3>lot of ground to look because we know what join

427
00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:20.960
<v Speaker 3>ed specialties are, we know what he does, we know

428
00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:24.160
<v Speaker 3>what he's capable of, so we can start matching to

429
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:28.559
<v Speaker 3>that too. Oh, what where should we look for operational files?

430
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:32.759
<v Speaker 3>What might he have been engaged in that justice getting

431
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:35.599
<v Speaker 3>started and kicked off in the late spring of nineteen

432
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:38.640
<v Speaker 3>sixty three. That's that's super secret that he had to

433
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:41.680
<v Speaker 3>get a new clearance for. That's way beyond just his

434
00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:43.319
<v Speaker 3>case officer activities.

435
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:48.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, right, so that gives us timelines, That gives us,

436
00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:51.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, new open possibilities. Why is it that he

437
00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:55.000
<v Speaker 2>needs extra training if what it is he's already trained in.

438
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:57.960
<v Speaker 2>We have confirmation of what he was capable of. Like

439
00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:00.359
<v Speaker 2>you said, he's capable of running groups. That is a

440
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:03.920
<v Speaker 2>difference for running individuals. It's a different skill set, it's

441
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:06.160
<v Speaker 2>a different requirement, it's a different money level, you have

442
00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:09.720
<v Speaker 2>access to funding resources, et cetera. There's a lot of

443
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:14.400
<v Speaker 2>things that can be drawn from this, right, So that

444
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:17.880
<v Speaker 2>is a positive and it's great. What it doesn't give

445
00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:21.319
<v Speaker 2>us the whole story, and it doesn't assign to us

446
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:25.559
<v Speaker 2>even a beginning explanation in my mind for what happened

447
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:29.799
<v Speaker 2>with the HSCA or am I wrong about that?

448
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:31.079
<v Speaker 4>Well?

449
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:34.440
<v Speaker 3>As far as what happened with the HSCA with to

450
00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:39.160
<v Speaker 3>get back with that, Joinese John eds at the time

451
00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:41.880
<v Speaker 3>that the hsc was not in good health, it was

452
00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:47.279
<v Speaker 3>considering going into retirement. But among all of the other

453
00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:52.519
<v Speaker 3>officers that the CIA would have had to select to

454
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:56.640
<v Speaker 3>service the liaison to the HSCA, you know, to be

455
00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:02.160
<v Speaker 3>the guy that knows how the CIA work, that knows

456
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:06.799
<v Speaker 3>overall how to help the HSCA do his job. Actually,

457
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:11.640
<v Speaker 3>you would probably want to pick somebody from headquarters, somebody

458
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:15.559
<v Speaker 3>who has real expertise with the c AA record systems,

459
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:19.680
<v Speaker 3>you know, not join It is not a very good

460
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:24.079
<v Speaker 3>personnel pick to do that job. So one of the

461
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:27.799
<v Speaker 3>things that immediate the question has raised is, you know,

462
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:31.400
<v Speaker 3>we've all talked about the fact, why would you pick

463
00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:37.039
<v Speaker 3>James Angleton to be the CIA liaison to the Warrant Commission,

464
00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.559
<v Speaker 3>you know, to help the Warrant Commission. You know, Angleton

465
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:47.000
<v Speaker 3>being counter intelligence CI sigg you know, not not the

466
00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:50.240
<v Speaker 3>most helpful sort of person in the world. Ankleton's skills

467
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:54.559
<v Speaker 3>are covering things up, not exploring things. But and so

468
00:28:54.680 --> 00:28:59.240
<v Speaker 3>here we have again a CI officer picked whose skill

469
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:03.559
<v Speaker 3>set really doesn't match the job. So then you raise

470
00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:07.400
<v Speaker 3>the question of just like Angleton might have known something

471
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:09.880
<v Speaker 3>that he wanted to make sure it didn't get shared

472
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:14.880
<v Speaker 3>with the Warren Commission, perhaps Joe and Edies knows something

473
00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:17.720
<v Speaker 3>that we want to make sure it doesn't get shared

474
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:21.799
<v Speaker 3>with the HSCA. Oh, what might that be the CIA's

475
00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:23.799
<v Speaker 3>interest in Lee Harvey Oswald.

476
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:26.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, let me challenge you from a different activement that

477
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:28.839
<v Speaker 2>perhaps you learn about that.

478
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:31.839
<v Speaker 3>Uh, here's this happened.

479
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:34.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, but here's why. Let me explain. You know, I mean,

480
00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:36.079
<v Speaker 2>I'm not just gonna say you want I'm not on

481
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:39.519
<v Speaker 2>my firms. Okay, I'm not a jerk. Uh, but but

482
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:43.759
<v Speaker 2>here's the thing. Angleton fits the job for the Warren

483
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Commission based on the type of inquiry it was. If

484
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:52.039
<v Speaker 2>you want to deflect and make sure that you control

485
00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:56.440
<v Speaker 2>the flow of information, Angleton might be positioned well to

486
00:29:56.599 --> 00:29:59.880
<v Speaker 2>not get them started on something that will end up

487
00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:04.559
<v Speaker 2>on the record. And indeed, Joe Eddies might be positioned

488
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:08.480
<v Speaker 2>well because of his intimate knowledge of what the HSCA

489
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:13.000
<v Speaker 2>was actually after. The Warrant Commission only wanted to know

490
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:15.640
<v Speaker 2>about Oswald. If you take a look at the subcommittees

491
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:19.359
<v Speaker 2>that were laid out, the investigative groups. Okay, sorry, but

492
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:21.319
<v Speaker 2>where you have a junior and a senior council, you

493
00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:23.279
<v Speaker 2>have four groups, and three of them have the name

494
00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:25.720
<v Speaker 2>Oswald and the damn title of the group. They were

495
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:32.160
<v Speaker 2>all after Oswald. With the Warren Commission. Okay, the HSCA

496
00:30:32.599 --> 00:30:34.960
<v Speaker 2>didn't do that. They broke it down a little differently

497
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:39.400
<v Speaker 2>and went after very particular things. So indeed Joe Edens

498
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:41.519
<v Speaker 2>might have been positioned to take care of the one

499
00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:45.079
<v Speaker 2>particular thing that they were going after at the time.

500
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.279
<v Speaker 2>And he's available, he's not busy with other things because,

501
00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:50.880
<v Speaker 2>as you said, his health was bad. So actually he

502
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:52.920
<v Speaker 2>might be the right man for that job, just like

503
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:55.640
<v Speaker 2>Angleton was the right man for the CIA job with

504
00:30:55.720 --> 00:31:00.160
<v Speaker 2>the Warren Commission, to control the flow, to make sure

505
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:05.119
<v Speaker 2>that only certain things would reach them, whether they are evocative, provocative,

506
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:08.400
<v Speaker 2>et cetera. But only certain things would reach them because really,

507
00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:10.799
<v Speaker 2>at the end of the day, they're there to filter

508
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:12.319
<v Speaker 2>things properly. Both of them.

509
00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:16.119
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I agree with that, take Chuck, and that's actually

510
00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:18.720
<v Speaker 3>what I'm trying to say. Oh, it's just a lif

511
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:21.720
<v Speaker 3>if you have a particular goal in my let's talk

512
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:25.759
<v Speaker 3>about personnel selection, right, Okay, what's what is my goal

513
00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:29.400
<v Speaker 3>for this job? Okay, my goal for this job is

514
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:32.680
<v Speaker 3>not the same as the goal that you know. May

515
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:35.559
<v Speaker 3>not my goal is CIA may not be the same

516
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:39.960
<v Speaker 3>as the goal that Earl Warren has, or maybe it is.

517
00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:43.920
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. But the job descriptions might not match.

518
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:48.359
<v Speaker 3>The goal of exposing information and an inquiry is on

519
00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:52.680
<v Speaker 3>their side, the goal of controlling information on an inquiry

520
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:56.920
<v Speaker 3>is on my side. So the job descriptions aren't quite meshing.

521
00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:59.960
<v Speaker 3>And I would say, yeah, I think both of them

522
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:06.960
<v Speaker 3>fit exactly the profile for shielding information whether than open. Yeah,

523
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:10.440
<v Speaker 3>they're in a position to keep doors closed, not to

524
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:16.519
<v Speaker 3>open doors. And and their activities absolutely with their respective

525
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:22.240
<v Speaker 3>commissions show that you know that there intentionally. We know

526
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:27.079
<v Speaker 3>that Angleton was intentionally and demonstrates that he was intentionally

527
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:31.559
<v Speaker 3>closing doors, especially in regard to Mexico City, Joe and Eddies.

528
00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:37.079
<v Speaker 3>When asked directly some questions related that would relate to

529
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:43.119
<v Speaker 3>the ERE, and Oswald absolutely closed the door. He did

530
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:45.640
<v Speaker 3>not volunteer the fact that, oh, yeah, I can get

531
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:50.079
<v Speaker 3>you that information because I happen to have it. So yeah,

532
00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:53.960
<v Speaker 3>Actually in this case, darn looks like we agree.

533
00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:57.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh it does. Actually, I see I was misinterpreting and

534
00:32:57.599 --> 00:32:59.599
<v Speaker 2>thinking you're saying that, you know, joean Nis is not

535
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:01.599
<v Speaker 2>really greatest fit for this job, and I'm thinking to

536
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:05.559
<v Speaker 2>myself now it's And also context once again, I love

537
00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:09.079
<v Speaker 2>using that word with you because it is really your

538
00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:14.400
<v Speaker 2>key word all the time. Context, the information that was

539
00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:17.000
<v Speaker 2>going to be presented to the public as the end

540
00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:22.720
<v Speaker 2>product of each of these inquiries will use loosely. Is

541
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:28.599
<v Speaker 2>different because word commission time, there is no awareness of

542
00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:31.000
<v Speaker 2>the castrow plots. There is no awareness. I mean this,

543
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:33.799
<v Speaker 2>The CIA is a mythical organization that is, you know,

544
00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:36.880
<v Speaker 2>run the up and up in nineteen sixty four on

545
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:40.519
<v Speaker 2>the Naples at their report. Right by the time the

546
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.119
<v Speaker 2>HSCA is full swing of its work, seconding up in

547
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:48.400
<v Speaker 2>the seventies we already know the public even knows the

548
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:52.599
<v Speaker 2>CIA might not be behaving. You know, bout boards all

549
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:56.519
<v Speaker 2>the time. Oh, we have a different context, a different

550
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:00.640
<v Speaker 2>dat of information, so a slightly different you'll set, a

551
00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:07.119
<v Speaker 2>slightly different familiarity is required of that control officer that's

552
00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:11.159
<v Speaker 2>called in between Angleton and Joanne's, who is supposed to

553
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:14.800
<v Speaker 2>be a liaison to help but also has to control

554
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:17.599
<v Speaker 2>for his side what's going to be fed. It's a

555
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:22.079
<v Speaker 2>different context. Joannes can fed stuff to the HSCA make

556
00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:24.719
<v Speaker 2>them happy, they couldn't be fed to the Warrant Commission,

557
00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:30.519
<v Speaker 2>and vice versa. You know, things that seem very benign

558
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:34.840
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen sixty four no longer look benign in nineteen

559
00:34:35.239 --> 00:34:38.920
<v Speaker 2>seventy four or seventy six or any of that time period.

560
00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:42.320
<v Speaker 2>Do you think that that's an important thing to realize

561
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:43.559
<v Speaker 2>here when comparing those.

562
00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:47.840
<v Speaker 3>Two Yeah, I would say that as you a set

563
00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:53.719
<v Speaker 3>presents it essentially, angle then has to worry about the

564
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:58.440
<v Speaker 3>door to the CIA as an entity, because there are

565
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:01.199
<v Speaker 3>a lot of embarrassing things you don't want to reveal

566
00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:04.360
<v Speaker 3>as you're going along. Do I want to reveal the

567
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:07.599
<v Speaker 3>castro plots? Do I want to reveal the CIA uses

568
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:12.000
<v Speaker 3>criminals on occasion. Do I want to really reveal that

569
00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:15.760
<v Speaker 3>the CIA acts domestically against citizens? Lots of things I

570
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:18.360
<v Speaker 3>don't really want to reveal at the level of the

571
00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:23.039
<v Speaker 3>total agency. But when we get to the HSCA, you

572
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:26.400
<v Speaker 3>know that a lot of that's come out because of

573
00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:30.039
<v Speaker 3>the Church Committee. That's no longer shocking. That's no longer

574
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:32.840
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, we know the CIA does assassinations, big deal.

575
00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:37.800
<v Speaker 3>We know they have media people in their control, and

576
00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:40.760
<v Speaker 3>we know they do domestic property. Okay, we know all that,

577
00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:43.880
<v Speaker 3>all right, So what's the big secret By the time

578
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:47.840
<v Speaker 3>we get to HS the HSCA, you know, like, where

579
00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:50.239
<v Speaker 3>would the explosive part be at that point in time,

580
00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:54.880
<v Speaker 3>because the CIA has already been suffering. Uh, and it

581
00:35:55.079 --> 00:35:58.960
<v Speaker 3>probably has to do specifically with the agency Lee Harvey Oswald.

582
00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:03.519
<v Speaker 2>Right, and here we go, and again all they had

583
00:36:03.559 --> 00:36:06.119
<v Speaker 2>to do is make a basic denial. In nineteen sixty four,

584
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:09.360
<v Speaker 2>CIA says they weren't connected to him. We accept it. Done.

585
00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:12.079
<v Speaker 2>Plus we have the former head of the CIA or

586
00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:15.559
<v Speaker 2>on our panel, so therefore we know Oswald's not connected

587
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:19.280
<v Speaker 2>to CIA. Done. I mean, it's not simple in sixty four,

588
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:23.960
<v Speaker 2>it's not ten years later. Okay, it's just not.

589
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:27.480
<v Speaker 3>The CIA is not nearly as trusted ten years later

590
00:36:27.559 --> 00:36:28.559
<v Speaker 3>as it was before.

591
00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:31.719
<v Speaker 2>Well well yeah, remember you know the warrant commissions made

592
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:34.960
<v Speaker 2>up of several what did they say, prestigious individuals who

593
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:38.599
<v Speaker 2>are you know all that Alan Dolls being one of them,

594
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:41.800
<v Speaker 2>who very much controlled the activity of the Warrant Commission.

595
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:44.199
<v Speaker 2>If you take a look at the executive sessions, the

596
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:48.880
<v Speaker 2>amount of questions asked, a lot of things. I still

597
00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:52.320
<v Speaker 2>love a Waltz book on this, the moron Omission. But

598
00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:56.480
<v Speaker 2>anyway they shout out to Walt Brown. The thing is,

599
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:03.519
<v Speaker 2>it's a different landscape for a different skill set required. Okay,

600
00:37:03.639 --> 00:37:05.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, the guy who makes your French fries might

601
00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:08.079
<v Speaker 2>not be able to form your potato, but if they're

602
00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:13.760
<v Speaker 2>part of the same process, Okay, So I want to

603
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:16.440
<v Speaker 2>shut up now and let you continue on this and

604
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:20.039
<v Speaker 2>kind of, you know, give us the ultimate conclusion here

605
00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:23.000
<v Speaker 2>in short form, as best you'd like, you know about

606
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:27.840
<v Speaker 2>what it is this progress represents. And I do want

607
00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:29.960
<v Speaker 2>people to read Malcolm Blunt's article, but I don't have

608
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:33.400
<v Speaker 2>a link to it available right away. I will find one,

609
00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:36.280
<v Speaker 2>or maybe you could pass me one. Larry and we'll

610
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:39.519
<v Speaker 2>put it in the show notes. But I want to

611
00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:41.880
<v Speaker 2>get to that point where it's like, Okay, now that

612
00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:44.480
<v Speaker 2>we've gone through this and tried to explain some context

613
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:48.639
<v Speaker 2>and some reality is connected to what was actually handed over,

614
00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:51.840
<v Speaker 2>what does it mean ultimately or what should it mean

615
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:53.360
<v Speaker 2>going forward?

616
00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:57.519
<v Speaker 3>Well, part of it is that a it does confirm

617
00:37:57.559 --> 00:38:00.280
<v Speaker 3>another point as well, and that's the point that and

618
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:05.880
<v Speaker 3>John Newman had developed years ago in regard to Jane Roman,

619
00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:10.039
<v Speaker 3>and in regard to the fact that the CIA had

620
00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:15.360
<v Speaker 3>provably withheld current information on Lee Harvey Oswald after his

621
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:19.960
<v Speaker 3>return from Russia from its own people. It had withheld

622
00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:22.960
<v Speaker 3>it from its people in Mexico City, and when Lee

623
00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:26.599
<v Speaker 3>Harvey Oswell was there and being queries were being made

624
00:38:26.599 --> 00:38:29.639
<v Speaker 3>about him, the only reason that happens is if the

625
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:33.440
<v Speaker 3>CIA does have an operational interest in him, whether or

626
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:37.320
<v Speaker 3>not there already using him knowingly for something, have an

627
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:41.079
<v Speaker 3>idea about a notional idea about using him for something.

628
00:38:41.800 --> 00:38:45.679
<v Speaker 3>There's every reason for us to accept the fact that

629
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:49.440
<v Speaker 3>there were operational interests, possibly in several different venues. There's

630
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:53.440
<v Speaker 3>several given the image that he had created for himself

631
00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:56.679
<v Speaker 3>in New Orleans, given the fact that he had volunteered

632
00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:03.239
<v Speaker 3>to the FBI to provide information on the FPCC. Both

633
00:39:03.239 --> 00:39:06.599
<v Speaker 3>the FBI and the CIA have operations going on something

634
00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:12.800
<v Speaker 3>called Amsanta related to the FPCC. Every reason to think

635
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:16.480
<v Speaker 3>that over a course of some ninety days there could

636
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:21.920
<v Speaker 3>have been different types of operational interest within the agency

637
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:27.960
<v Speaker 3>in Lee Harvey oswelld Okay, there's just our job now

638
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:30.800
<v Speaker 3>would be to pursue that. Because we know what was

639
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:33.800
<v Speaker 3>going on within the agency, we know the kind of

640
00:39:33.800 --> 00:39:36.920
<v Speaker 3>things that we're doing. There are places we could look

641
00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:40.679
<v Speaker 3>to try to find evidence of that, unless that's been

642
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:44.960
<v Speaker 3>taken away. But that's an important lead. But I think

643
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:47.920
<v Speaker 3>the more important lead, and where this all really comes

644
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:52.840
<v Speaker 3>down to is let's take that as a given, as

645
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:57.360
<v Speaker 3>a hypothesis. Lee Harvey Oswell is of operational interest. He's

646
00:39:57.400 --> 00:40:02.480
<v Speaker 3>an operational interest as of late August through September, through

647
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:07.760
<v Speaker 3>October and November. And there may be an evolving interest

648
00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:13.599
<v Speaker 3>in him, you know, immediately in New Orleans propaganda wise,

649
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:18.800
<v Speaker 3>with the DRE evolving into something more in regard to

650
00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:23.199
<v Speaker 3>Mexico City. But there's an operational interest in him within

651
00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:23.960
<v Speaker 3>the CIA.

652
00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:24.880
<v Speaker 2>Now.

653
00:40:24.920 --> 00:40:27.199
<v Speaker 3>One of the things that we all most all of

654
00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:30.239
<v Speaker 3>us can serious types have talked about for a long time,

655
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:37.360
<v Speaker 3>is if you're going to hijack Lee Harvey Oswall and

656
00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:41.440
<v Speaker 3>make him a real poisoned pill, make him really dangerous

657
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:45.400
<v Speaker 3>to the CIA, because they have an operational interest in him,

658
00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:49.400
<v Speaker 3>who's going to hijack him? Where would you turn to

659
00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:53.079
<v Speaker 3>look for somebody that would know about that operational interest

660
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:56.840
<v Speaker 3>and be in a position to say, Aha, actually, if

661
00:40:56.920 --> 00:40:59.519
<v Speaker 3>we pass this guy, and if we use them, and

662
00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:03.719
<v Speaker 3>we take their plan the air propaganda and we make

663
00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:07.679
<v Speaker 3>it ours. Let's take let's say that they were already

664
00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:13.280
<v Speaker 3>working on the Gilberto Alvarado story of Cuban's contracting Oswald

665
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:17.440
<v Speaker 3>to kill JFK giving him money, which David Phillips maintained

666
00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:22.719
<v Speaker 3>to his death, say that was already project. That's great,

667
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:25.239
<v Speaker 3>we can hijack that, we can make them a patsy.

668
00:41:25.639 --> 00:41:29.159
<v Speaker 3>We can turn this whole thing against Cuban a heartbeating

669
00:41:29.559 --> 00:41:34.320
<v Speaker 3>and problem solved. Where would that hijack occur? You know,

670
00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:38.079
<v Speaker 3>of all the potential characters that have been offered, all

671
00:41:38.199 --> 00:41:41.840
<v Speaker 3>the scenarios that have been offered for this conspiracy, who

672
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:47.039
<v Speaker 3>wouldn't know enough about that operational interest to hijacket My

673
00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:52.800
<v Speaker 3>point be obviously somebody within his CIA and somebody that's

674
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:55.960
<v Speaker 3>involved in that operational interest. That's where the hijack has

675
00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:58.800
<v Speaker 3>to occur. So just what I'm going to toss out

676
00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:03.840
<v Speaker 3>is this gives as a real direction. Look, we've made

677
00:42:03.880 --> 00:42:08.079
<v Speaker 3>apotheses about all this before, but now it's giving us

678
00:42:08.119 --> 00:42:11.280
<v Speaker 3>a real suggestion of Yeah, we were thinking we were

679
00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:14.079
<v Speaker 3>looking in the right place. Now we should look more closely.

680
00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I actually have a live question, which I didn't expect,

681
00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:22.119
<v Speaker 2>but he then also emailed me to make sure I

682
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:24.239
<v Speaker 2>looked at it, and I'm not sure if I've got

683
00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:28.199
<v Speaker 2>the right question. I hope it's right. Let's see where

684
00:42:28.360 --> 00:42:32.920
<v Speaker 2>is this thing so I could get the scoop on

685
00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:37.159
<v Speaker 2>the context of this the document they mentioned a couple

686
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:39.480
<v Speaker 2>of KGB mails on trial where these are the ones

687
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:42.000
<v Speaker 2>known before. Jeez, this is kind of a bit of

688
00:42:42.039 --> 00:42:44.360
<v Speaker 2>a complex thing for me to try to read. I

689
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:46.679
<v Speaker 2>really want you to restate that question in the chat

690
00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:50.280
<v Speaker 2>rooms that you're listening live quickly though, because Larry's almost

691
00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:57.039
<v Speaker 2>out of time with me. Yeah, please, because I don't

692
00:42:57.039 --> 00:42:59.199
<v Speaker 2>know if you want to ask the question about you know,

693
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:04.719
<v Speaker 2>he had just come back from Greece. It just come

694
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:07.000
<v Speaker 2>back from Greece. There's one part one thing that looks

695
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:09.039
<v Speaker 2>like a question there, and then there's some other things.

696
00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:11.280
<v Speaker 2>But there's a bit more chat going on in the room,

697
00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:14.320
<v Speaker 2>so I'm not sure which thing he wants to ask here,

698
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:16.199
<v Speaker 2>so please enter it back in the chat room. The

699
00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:19.039
<v Speaker 2>exact question, well, just a couple.

700
00:43:18.840 --> 00:43:21.760
<v Speaker 3>Of comments while that's been done. Is we do know

701
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:28.159
<v Speaker 3>John Ed's background is not unlike David phillips background. Both

702
00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:32.360
<v Speaker 3>of them were case officers. They handed individuals. Increasingly, they

703
00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:39.199
<v Speaker 3>handed handled higher level individuals up to political action type individuals.

704
00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:45.119
<v Speaker 3>Join Edes actually appears to have been a serious factor

705
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:49.480
<v Speaker 3>in regime change in Greece and had some regimes games

706
00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:55.320
<v Speaker 3>regime change skills, just like David Phillips did. But both

707
00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:59.159
<v Speaker 3>of these are former case officers who have advanced through

708
00:43:59.239 --> 00:44:05.239
<v Speaker 3>the ranks and have specializations in propaganda, especially black propaganda,

709
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:08.039
<v Speaker 3>something that should be very much on our minds in

710
00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:09.679
<v Speaker 3>the fall of nineteen sixty three.

711
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, let's see I get the scoop on the Okay,

712
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:21.679
<v Speaker 2>the context of this Mary Ferrell document. Yikes, let's see

713
00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:25.400
<v Speaker 2>in the document they mentioned a couple of KGB models

714
00:44:26.440 --> 00:44:32.440
<v Speaker 2>in trial where these ones known before and George joannides

715
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:37.000
<v Speaker 2>to had to testify concerning a phone call and Bruce Soli,

716
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:45.960
<v Speaker 2>who was alive Jezu. Yeah, it is a very complex issue.

717
00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:51.559
<v Speaker 2>So you know, if we look at the member from

718
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:56.920
<v Speaker 2>Bruce L. Soli chief SAG regarding camp files. Okay, you

719
00:44:57.119 --> 00:44:59.840
<v Speaker 2>might have seen this before, Larry, Do you know what

720
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:01.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm referring to it even to begin with? Or no?

721
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:06.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh, just very generally, it seemed to me that that

722
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:11.519
<v Speaker 3>was separate from what he was doing in nineteen sixty three.

723
00:45:13.480 --> 00:45:16.519
<v Speaker 3>So I have read it and I noted it, but

724
00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:20.000
<v Speaker 3>it didn't really seem directly relevant to what he was

725
00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:22.440
<v Speaker 3>doing in sixty three, so I didn't pursue it, honestly.

726
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:26.719
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, the beginning the memo is on this day,

727
00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:30.960
<v Speaker 2>George Joani's number forty one six fifty five was received

728
00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:35.119
<v Speaker 2>the May nineteen seventy eight letter from subject was interviewed

729
00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:40.639
<v Speaker 2>by WFO slash FBI agents Terry Neast and Ken Patten.

730
00:45:41.239 --> 00:45:45.599
<v Speaker 2>The interview was conducted in for eed S thirteen. Prior

731
00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:50.159
<v Speaker 2>to the interview, the undersign had obtained the original letter

732
00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:57.440
<v Speaker 2>from Vivian Psachos. However, you pronounced that and it was

733
00:45:57.559 --> 00:46:03.599
<v Speaker 2>furnished to the above agent or permanent FBI retention. The

734
00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:07.320
<v Speaker 2>undersigned was not present during the interview, but it should

735
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:10.280
<v Speaker 2>be noted that Joe and Needes in all caps had

736
00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:14.599
<v Speaker 2>open heart surgery about the time he received the above letter,

737
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:19.079
<v Speaker 2>and that was from solely there and this is dated.

738
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:21.519
<v Speaker 2>Let's see when is this day to day? Seventeen August

739
00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:26.320
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy eight. Anyway, it's a bit of a complexity there.

740
00:46:27.559 --> 00:46:29.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how you would answer that anyway. In short,

741
00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:32.280
<v Speaker 2>if you want.

742
00:46:32.199 --> 00:46:35.239
<v Speaker 3>To put it in the chat or drop me an email,

743
00:46:35.320 --> 00:46:37.000
<v Speaker 3>I can try to give you a response that you

744
00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:38.719
<v Speaker 3>could put in the chat, but it looks like I

745
00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:43.679
<v Speaker 3>would have to do some background reading to give any

746
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:45.440
<v Speaker 3>reasonable response.

747
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:48.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'll do that. And what we'll do is I'll

748
00:46:48.679 --> 00:46:51.960
<v Speaker 2>get your response after the show, my friend, because I

749
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:55.559
<v Speaker 2>don't want to short change your question, Okay, to be

750
00:46:55.679 --> 00:46:58.760
<v Speaker 2>honest with you, especially because that guy's actually a supporter

751
00:46:58.840 --> 00:47:01.559
<v Speaker 2>of the show, who you know, sometimes gives me a

752
00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:04.000
<v Speaker 2>little heart burning on the calling show. But that's okay.

753
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:08.000
<v Speaker 2>I would rather answer his question for even if we

754
00:47:08.079 --> 00:47:13.320
<v Speaker 2>got to do it after. But anyway, the total discussion here,

755
00:47:16.639 --> 00:47:20.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, we got we got a bit of progress

756
00:47:20.599 --> 00:47:26.199
<v Speaker 2>out of this confirmation. For sure, you got some more context,

757
00:47:26.440 --> 00:47:29.960
<v Speaker 2>but it's still as yet incomplete, as per usual. I mean,

758
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:33.480
<v Speaker 2>this is almost where Yeah, I kind of go along

759
00:47:33.559 --> 00:47:36.519
<v Speaker 2>with the people that go yeah, yes, same old, but

760
00:47:36.679 --> 00:47:39.119
<v Speaker 2>it's not because it's part of what was being held

761
00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:42.679
<v Speaker 2>back for a long time, no matter how long you know,

762
00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:46.679
<v Speaker 2>morally sued to get the documentation. This is part of

763
00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:52.639
<v Speaker 2>what he wanted, but it's not everything. And that seems

764
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:54.719
<v Speaker 2>to be the name of the game with all this, right.

765
00:47:56.599 --> 00:47:58.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and we wouldn't expect it to be. I mean,

766
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:04.239
<v Speaker 3>this is this is a lead. Is it any different

767
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:11.840
<v Speaker 3>than Jane Roman going Yeah, they'rewithholding information, So that looks

768
00:48:11.880 --> 00:48:16.000
<v Speaker 3>like there's an optional interest. No, it's not quite that good.

769
00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:20.920
<v Speaker 3>But basically Jeff has interviewed a couple of people to

770
00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:24.480
<v Speaker 3>go along with the lead that are about that level.

771
00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:28.639
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's like, this is yet one more confirmation

772
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:33.199
<v Speaker 3>from real people working within the CIA and talking to

773
00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:36.599
<v Speaker 3>the CIA about an operational interest.

774
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I did copy and paste it, by the way,

775
00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:46.960
<v Speaker 2>the live listener, But I'm telling you he's saying he'd

776
00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:48.760
<v Speaker 2>want to look over it before he answers it.

777
00:48:48.920 --> 00:48:53.039
<v Speaker 3>So I am looking at the link check and I see.

778
00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:56.480
<v Speaker 3>All I see is like a one page letter from

779
00:48:56.599 --> 00:49:00.960
<v Speaker 3>nineteen seventy eight. So security and now this group is

780
00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:07.239
<v Speaker 3>interviewed Joe and Needes obviously well after his uh you know,

781
00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:13.000
<v Speaker 3>his retirement, and it rapes to a letter from I

782
00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:17.519
<v Speaker 3>don't see the letter. So they've reviewed interviewed him about

783
00:49:17.559 --> 00:49:20.960
<v Speaker 3>a letter that they and this is the FBI interviewing

784
00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:24.320
<v Speaker 3>about a letter. So I to give a comment, I've

785
00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:29.960
<v Speaker 3>got to see what uh uh Vivian was asking about.

786
00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:32.840
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's like, we interviewed him about the letter. Well,

787
00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:34.199
<v Speaker 3>where's the letter. I need to see that.

788
00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:37.760
<v Speaker 2>I know this is the problem with a singular document.

789
00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:40.480
<v Speaker 2>And I get he's saying, look, it's a cold war question,

790
00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:42.840
<v Speaker 2>but it's not that simple. You got to know the

791
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:45.639
<v Speaker 2>fully what's going on here, not just what's in that letter.

792
00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:49.079
<v Speaker 2>And you know, off the top of your head, it's

793
00:49:49.159 --> 00:49:51.800
<v Speaker 2>not easy to know the precise details. You got to

794
00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:53.400
<v Speaker 2>look back over them to be honest with you.

795
00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:56.199
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's it's it's it's FBI.

796
00:49:57.880 --> 00:49:58.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

797
00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:03.639
<v Speaker 3>This is so Chief Security Analysis Group within the CIA

798
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:08.360
<v Speaker 3>talking about the fact that Joe and Edes was interviewed

799
00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:13.679
<v Speaker 3>by FBI agents about this letter. So here's here's a

800
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:19.840
<v Speaker 3>CI officer who's in retirement who solely is allowed has

801
00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:22.800
<v Speaker 3>given permission to be interviewed by the FBI because he'd

802
00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:26.400
<v Speaker 3>have to do that. In regard to whatever is being

803
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:30.719
<v Speaker 3>asserted in the letter, is is this new information? I

804
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:36.880
<v Speaker 3>don't think we've ever seen this letter, so to that extent,

805
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:39.400
<v Speaker 3>I would say it would be new. I know, there's

806
00:50:39.719 --> 00:50:41.679
<v Speaker 3>I guess the bottom line is there's a lot of

807
00:50:41.800 --> 00:50:46.400
<v Speaker 3>talk these debates about solely because of what John Newman

808
00:50:46.519 --> 00:50:51.360
<v Speaker 3>is writing about solely, and perhaps this relates, you know,

809
00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:55.400
<v Speaker 3>something new about the fact that Solely would let Joe

810
00:50:55.480 --> 00:50:58.840
<v Speaker 3>and Edes be interviewed. But again, I'm sorry, I just

811
00:50:59.320 --> 00:51:05.960
<v Speaker 3>I don't have another context to just make a reasonable observation.

812
00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:09.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know, I know. I just this is what

813
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:12.000
<v Speaker 2>I try to explain all the time, and people go, oh,

814
00:51:12.039 --> 00:51:14.360
<v Speaker 2>that's because you don't know what you're doing, and I'm like, no,

815
00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:18.760
<v Speaker 2>it's because I don't have all the information that you

816
00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:23.360
<v Speaker 2>really need to fully decode what you're asking, and I

817
00:51:23.519 --> 00:51:26.840
<v Speaker 2>need other information along with you know, it's not what

818
00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:29.840
<v Speaker 2>happened here is on the internet, modern Internet, Larry. And

819
00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:31.960
<v Speaker 2>this is how I'm going to break this down, is

820
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:34.320
<v Speaker 2>that people came to expect I have the one document

821
00:51:34.360 --> 00:51:37.719
<v Speaker 2>in my hands. You probably know who I'm imitating some listeners,

822
00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:40.159
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, I have this one document right here. It

823
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:44.599
<v Speaker 2>proves this, and it never does because in and of

824
00:51:44.679 --> 00:51:50.639
<v Speaker 2>itself shows nothing, and you have to take it and

825
00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:53.880
<v Speaker 2>have the other context to be able to know what's

826
00:51:53.960 --> 00:51:56.760
<v Speaker 2>going on altogether. And I'll tell you what, after reading

827
00:51:56.880 --> 00:52:02.159
<v Speaker 2>millions of pages, as I'm sure you have, Look, you're

828
00:52:02.199 --> 00:52:04.960
<v Speaker 2>not going to memorize the specifics on everything or trust

829
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:10.039
<v Speaker 2>your memory anymore on everything because it gets blurred after

830
00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:10.440
<v Speaker 2>a while.

831
00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:15.159
<v Speaker 3>Well, sorry, in regard to this check, it's kind of

832
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:17.320
<v Speaker 3>triggering a little bit. I think I have read some

833
00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:22.360
<v Speaker 3>more dialogue about this letter, and the issue was the

834
00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:26.400
<v Speaker 3>FBI agents interviewed Joannides, and I think there was a

835
00:52:26.480 --> 00:52:29.800
<v Speaker 3>complaint that he was not being cooperative, he was being

836
00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:33.840
<v Speaker 3>testing and grumpy with them, and that they were actually

837
00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:38.079
<v Speaker 3>complaining to Solely that he was not being helpful and

838
00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:41.000
<v Speaker 3>had not been helpful. And that's the reason for that

839
00:52:41.159 --> 00:52:43.239
<v Speaker 3>item number two in the letter. It's sort of like

840
00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:46.320
<v Speaker 3>Solely is going by the way, you guys realize that

841
00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:50.000
<v Speaker 3>you know he has had open heart surgery, He's probably

842
00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:52.760
<v Speaker 3>not at his best. You know, this is a polite

843
00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:56.000
<v Speaker 3>way for the for Solely to go back and say, well, yeah,

844
00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:58.760
<v Speaker 3>he's an old guy's retired and he said searcher recently,

845
00:52:58.840 --> 00:53:01.159
<v Speaker 3>and yes he was grumpy. You know, get a life.

846
00:53:03.239 --> 00:53:07.280
<v Speaker 3>I saw that somewhere else. It's that much as coming

847
00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:09.559
<v Speaker 3>back to me. But it's still not coming back to

848
00:53:09.679 --> 00:53:11.559
<v Speaker 3>me what the interviewed him about.

849
00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Right, And what he says in the room is as

850
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:16.199
<v Speaker 2>he's trying to get, you know, at the question, but

851
00:53:16.280 --> 00:53:18.840
<v Speaker 2>he says, you know, George Joanedi's had to testify in

852
00:53:18.920 --> 00:53:20.639
<v Speaker 2>the trial concerning Soviet moles.

853
00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:25.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay, so that makes sense. So otherwise Solely would

854
00:53:25.880 --> 00:53:30.239
<v Speaker 3>not be it wouldn't have come under the security. So

855
00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:33.920
<v Speaker 3>obviously there was some kind of claim about moles. Right,

856
00:53:34.079 --> 00:53:39.440
<v Speaker 3>And that's interesting because obviously, you know, my first thought

857
00:53:39.519 --> 00:53:44.800
<v Speaker 3>would be, you know, George was just about to read

858
00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:48.679
<v Speaker 3>you know, what did George. I'm wondering if it does

859
00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:52.519
<v Speaker 3>not have to do with his time in Greece more

860
00:53:52.639 --> 00:53:56.480
<v Speaker 3>than what we're talking about here in nineteen sixty three

861
00:53:56.960 --> 00:53:59.440
<v Speaker 3>in terms of people that he may have run across

862
00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:03.199
<v Speaker 3>who were being investigated as being moles. But so, yeah,

863
00:54:03.280 --> 00:54:07.039
<v Speaker 3>that that part makes perfect sense to me and to

864
00:54:07.159 --> 00:54:10.800
<v Speaker 3>that to that extent, in all honesty, Joan Edes, We've

865
00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:15.559
<v Speaker 3>we've looked at Joann edes entire career has not been

866
00:54:15.719 --> 00:54:19.159
<v Speaker 3>looked at in the same fashion that say, David phillips

867
00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:22.480
<v Speaker 3>entire career has been looked at, because Joe and Ed's

868
00:54:23.079 --> 00:54:25.679
<v Speaker 3>up to this point had been a and the CIA

869
00:54:25.840 --> 00:54:28.480
<v Speaker 3>had managed to make him a rather trivial figure. I

870
00:54:28.519 --> 00:54:31.440
<v Speaker 3>will say, there are all sorts of people now that

871
00:54:31.599 --> 00:54:35.239
<v Speaker 3>we know of that our major figures in regard to

872
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:41.800
<v Speaker 3>the JFK assassination as persons of interest or suspects. You know,

873
00:54:41.960 --> 00:54:47.679
<v Speaker 3>that includes Morales more Joe and Edes now that that

874
00:54:47.800 --> 00:54:50.840
<v Speaker 3>we didn't even know about, or that the HSC that

875
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:56.800
<v Speaker 3>the CIA effectively stonewalled for years, so we wouldn't even

876
00:54:57.599 --> 00:55:01.280
<v Speaker 3>be able to investigate their entire the background, right.

877
00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:04.679
<v Speaker 2>And they also did a little bit of diversion where

878
00:55:04.679 --> 00:55:07.400
<v Speaker 2>they can you know, contrive some you know, a whole

879
00:55:07.480 --> 00:55:11.840
<v Speaker 2>lot of that in misdirection that goes on in order

880
00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:14.840
<v Speaker 2>to keep you off the trail. So this is actually

881
00:55:14.880 --> 00:55:17.559
<v Speaker 2>a step down the trail, but it leads to other trails.

882
00:55:18.039 --> 00:55:20.599
<v Speaker 2>And that's what the problem is again, because they turned

883
00:55:20.599 --> 00:55:23.719
<v Speaker 2>around and they did keep some trivial nonsense, a whole

884
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:26.119
<v Speaker 2>bunch of it away from us that has nothing to

885
00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:28.480
<v Speaker 2>do with anything. And they fought tooth and nail to

886
00:55:28.599 --> 00:55:31.199
<v Speaker 2>keep that hidden, right, and it.

887
00:55:31.320 --> 00:55:33.920
<v Speaker 3>Works because if you keep everything hidden, we have no

888
00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:36.039
<v Speaker 3>idea where should we be spending her time?

889
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:40.239
<v Speaker 2>Right right? You know exactly. This is why I point

890
00:55:40.280 --> 00:55:42.480
<v Speaker 2>out that whole thing when I know spent that money

891
00:55:42.519 --> 00:55:44.280
<v Speaker 2>and then got my documents in the mail and got,

892
00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:47.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, five copies of the same cut out badly

893
00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:51.079
<v Speaker 2>cut out, by the way, photo copied or xerox newspaper

894
00:55:51.199 --> 00:55:54.800
<v Speaker 2>article that was just part of somebody's file. And I

895
00:55:54.880 --> 00:55:57.280
<v Speaker 2>got five copies of this stupid thing now and it

896
00:55:57.400 --> 00:55:59.800
<v Speaker 2>was something that was in the public domain. That come

897
00:55:59.840 --> 00:56:04.159
<v Speaker 2>on you. But I'm leasting my money, my time doing that,

898
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:06.400
<v Speaker 2>and what does that meant to do? Maybe you give

899
00:56:06.519 --> 00:56:09.719
<v Speaker 2>up after a while. You know, if you keep digging

900
00:56:09.800 --> 00:56:11.760
<v Speaker 2>for treasure and you got holes all over your yard,

901
00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:13.639
<v Speaker 2>you're gonna stop digging in your yard after a while.

902
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:20.960
<v Speaker 2>It's just pretty simple. You can't walk across the yard anymore. Anyway, Larry,

903
00:56:21.039 --> 00:56:23.119
<v Speaker 2>I really appreciate you taking the time today and we

904
00:56:23.239 --> 00:56:26.880
<v Speaker 2>went over a little bit. Sorry about that. But would

905
00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:29.840
<v Speaker 2>you this is my final question for you, just real quickly,

906
00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:33.400
<v Speaker 2>would this have changed anything or do we already see

907
00:56:33.400 --> 00:56:38.239
<v Speaker 2>an update maybe to the Oswall puzzle or an addendum?

908
00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:44.119
<v Speaker 3>Oh, definitely, it doesn't change to me. It doesn't change

909
00:56:44.159 --> 00:56:48.079
<v Speaker 3>anything about Lee Harvey Oswell per se. What it does

910
00:56:48.320 --> 00:56:55.400
<v Speaker 3>is extend significantly what was going on around here at

911
00:56:55.440 --> 00:57:00.000
<v Speaker 3>the moment. There are half a dozen different operational possibilities

912
00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:04.280
<v Speaker 3>that David and I are examining. I think it greatly

913
00:57:04.400 --> 00:57:08.400
<v Speaker 3>extends the areas that we have to look at for

914
00:57:08.519 --> 00:57:12.519
<v Speaker 3>these operations, especially to find operations that both Joe and

915
00:57:12.719 --> 00:57:17.480
<v Speaker 3>Edes and Phillips, who were propaganda backgrounds may have been

916
00:57:17.559 --> 00:57:21.840
<v Speaker 3>participating in. They direct us towards this new super secret

917
00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:25.800
<v Speaker 3>operation that was forming at the same time. Both Phillips

918
00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:28.840
<v Speaker 3>and joann Edes appear to have been assigned to it,

919
00:57:29.480 --> 00:57:32.000
<v Speaker 3>or to assign We know what Phillips was assigned to

920
00:57:32.079 --> 00:57:35.639
<v Speaker 3>at that point in time, it was the new Autonomous

921
00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:43.679
<v Speaker 3>Operations Special Operations under des Fitzgerald, and if join Edes,

922
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:47.119
<v Speaker 3>if that was the operation that joann Edes was assigned to,

923
00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:51.880
<v Speaker 3>There's a huge range of possibilities and some very dark

924
00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:57.440
<v Speaker 3>possibilities that are going on there. So not so much

925
00:57:58.639 --> 00:58:02.199
<v Speaker 3>on what's in the eye puzzle, but what might have

926
00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:06.039
<v Speaker 3>been going around the Oswald puzzle. And as I said,

927
00:58:06.199 --> 00:58:11.159
<v Speaker 3>even raising the possibility for at least some speculation on

928
00:58:11.320 --> 00:58:15.840
<v Speaker 3>a scenario of this time exactly who and when and

929
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:19.400
<v Speaker 3>how they hijacked Oswald.

930
00:58:20.360 --> 00:58:22.320
<v Speaker 2>Almost seems like you could write a sequel called the

931
00:58:22.400 --> 00:58:25.719
<v Speaker 2>Oswald Frame, because this is well I was thinking of it.

932
00:58:26.519 --> 00:58:29.360
<v Speaker 3>I was thinking of a short monograph, Chuck, you know,

933
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:31.719
<v Speaker 3>twenty or thirty pages. But that's what I was thinking

934
00:58:31.800 --> 00:58:33.800
<v Speaker 3>of when I started the Oswa puzzle too.

935
00:58:34.199 --> 00:58:37.239
<v Speaker 2>That I was about to crack up, because that's exactly

936
00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:39.360
<v Speaker 2>what happened with the Oswell puzzle. As you went, you

937
00:58:39.440 --> 00:58:42.400
<v Speaker 2>know what I'm going to write like an article? Yeah,

938
00:58:42.440 --> 00:58:44.800
<v Speaker 2>and then you know it might be big enough that

939
00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:47.000
<v Speaker 2>I might have to make a monograph. We'll post it

940
00:58:47.079 --> 00:58:50.360
<v Speaker 2>online somewhere for free. It'll be that okay. And I said,

941
00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:54.840
<v Speaker 2>oh oh, because if if.

942
00:58:54.760 --> 00:58:58.119
<v Speaker 3>Jeff just got a few more operational documents.

943
00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:00.679
<v Speaker 2>Who knows, then then we might have, you know, the

944
00:59:00.760 --> 00:59:06.920
<v Speaker 2>sequel to the Osma puzzle from Larry. I'm laughing because

945
00:59:07.639 --> 00:59:10.119
<v Speaker 2>Larry has several times tried to tell me basically, look,

946
00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:12.480
<v Speaker 2>I think I'm gonna put the JFK thing away now,

947
00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:15.719
<v Speaker 2>and I went, great, let's go in other directions. And

948
00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:19.760
<v Speaker 2>you know it's like that, which, by the way, here's

949
00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:22.159
<v Speaker 2>a hint at what I may do during the Myths

950
00:59:22.280 --> 00:59:25.679
<v Speaker 2>presentation at Lancer, and it's gonna be worth your ticket

951
00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:31.679
<v Speaker 2>that day, you know, the whole Godfather trilogy, all right.

952
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Every time I try to get out, they pulled me

953
00:59:36.119 --> 00:59:42.719
<v Speaker 2>back in. Larry is suffering that and he's not even Italian. Anyway,

954
00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:45.599
<v Speaker 2>we'll we'll, we'll get into that more in the in

955
00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:48.239
<v Speaker 2>the future. And thanks Larry for taking the time to

956
00:59:48.320 --> 00:59:51.360
<v Speaker 2>do this. Maybe a little follow up, you know, if

957
00:59:51.400 --> 00:59:52.559
<v Speaker 2>you get a chance to take a look at this,

958
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:54.679
<v Speaker 2>who knows, maybe it'll be the seed of something interesting

959
00:59:54.800 --> 00:59:57.719
<v Speaker 2>for you, and maybe you'll be able to add to it,

960
00:59:57.840 --> 01:00:01.480
<v Speaker 2>because you know, your mind those to different places sometimes.

961
01:00:01.519 --> 01:00:03.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I look at things, I put them in context.

962
01:00:03.480 --> 01:00:06.239
<v Speaker 2>I try to follow up on each thing. First of all,

963
01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:09.840
<v Speaker 2>I define things, and this is my oversimplified explanation. I

964
01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:12.119
<v Speaker 2>want to know what that letter says, since they mention it.

965
01:00:13.239 --> 01:00:15.280
<v Speaker 2>I want to know who the person is that's mentioned.

966
01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:17.480
<v Speaker 2>So I go and I study those things, and it

967
01:00:17.559 --> 01:00:20.280
<v Speaker 2>seems like a sidetrack, but it's not. It's to put

968
01:00:20.360 --> 01:00:23.559
<v Speaker 2>total context so that I'm reading this as if I'm

969
01:00:23.679 --> 01:00:29.840
<v Speaker 2>knowledgeable on every subject in the paragraph. Even That's why

970
01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:32.840
<v Speaker 2>it takes me time to figure things out, because sometimes

971
01:00:32.920 --> 01:00:36.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm familiar with the people and sometimes I'm not. Sometimes

972
01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:39.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm familiar with the subject, sometimes I'm not. Sometimes I'm

973
01:00:39.480 --> 01:00:43.119
<v Speaker 2>familiar with the kryptonym, sometimes not. And this is the

974
01:00:43.239 --> 01:00:46.679
<v Speaker 2>process I go through, probably not the most efficient way.

975
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:48.880
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I would like to see a well

976
01:00:48.920 --> 01:00:53.360
<v Speaker 2>trained AI that can do it. But as smart as

977
01:00:53.400 --> 01:00:56.679
<v Speaker 2>those things are, they don't get very far with this.

978
01:00:57.159 --> 01:01:02.280
<v Speaker 2>You still people, So I mean, there may be technology

979
01:01:02.360 --> 01:01:04.800
<v Speaker 2>that's you know, in certain industries that I haven't seen yet,

980
01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:07.400
<v Speaker 2>but as far as what the public has seen so far,

981
01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:12.960
<v Speaker 2>there is not a researcher AI for JFK. Not yet.

982
01:01:14.079 --> 01:01:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Maybe we'll get there, Larry, Maybe maybe we'll become unnecessary.

983
01:01:19.159 --> 01:01:21.840
<v Speaker 3>The only remark I can make, Chuck, is if the

984
01:01:22.039 --> 01:01:27.159
<v Speaker 3>AIS trained themselves into a certain position the same way

985
01:01:27.239 --> 01:01:31.599
<v Speaker 3>we have trained ourselves into different positions, you know, that

986
01:01:31.719 --> 01:01:34.480
<v Speaker 3>makes them no smarter than we are. The problem with

987
01:01:34.599 --> 01:01:37.760
<v Speaker 3>AI is it's still a matter of training. If if

988
01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:40.480
<v Speaker 3>what you're training them to do is fairly straightforward, and

989
01:01:40.599 --> 01:01:44.599
<v Speaker 3>you just give them tons of data. Cool, more data

990
01:01:44.679 --> 01:01:48.440
<v Speaker 3>than any human can handle. Cool, right, which means AIS

991
01:01:48.519 --> 01:01:55.039
<v Speaker 3>and science and astronomy, geology, physics, cool AIS in the

992
01:01:55.159 --> 01:01:58.719
<v Speaker 3>areas we cover maybe not so cool right.

993
01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:00.719
<v Speaker 2>And you know what's funny is just gave you the

994
01:02:00.760 --> 01:02:03.480
<v Speaker 2>punchline I wanted to give, and he did it better,

995
01:02:04.039 --> 01:02:08.199
<v Speaker 2>so I appreciate it. Follow Larry's blog Larry not Harry,

996
01:02:08.519 --> 01:02:13.360
<v Speaker 2>Larry Larry Dash, Handcock dot com or hyphen whatever you

997
01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:15.920
<v Speaker 2>want to call it. Go there. Follow his blog. He

998
01:02:16.119 --> 01:02:19.760
<v Speaker 2>does give you some information on occasion over there about

999
01:02:19.760 --> 01:02:23.039
<v Speaker 2>a variety of subjects, not just the jfk assassination. And

1000
01:02:23.119 --> 01:02:26.960
<v Speaker 2>although I'm highly recommending the book The Osma Puzzle at

1001
01:02:27.039 --> 01:02:29.840
<v Speaker 2>the moment all year year and a half, actually now

1002
01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:33.519
<v Speaker 2>you know this is the thing. I was recommending it

1003
01:02:33.559 --> 01:02:36.679
<v Speaker 2>before it came out because well, I had an idea

1004
01:02:36.760 --> 01:02:40.840
<v Speaker 2>what was in it, and it was necessary. Here's the thing,

1005
01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:44.039
<v Speaker 2>it's required reading. But I got a shelf full of

1006
01:02:44.159 --> 01:02:46.679
<v Speaker 2>Larry Hancock books and not a one of them is

1007
01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:49.679
<v Speaker 2>something you waste your money on, whether it's nexus, or

1008
01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:53.559
<v Speaker 2>it is creating chaos, or it is surprise attack. His

1009
01:02:53.719 --> 01:02:57.119
<v Speaker 2>co authors have changed a few times. Occasionally his wife

1010
01:02:57.159 --> 01:02:59.199
<v Speaker 2>has given him the title of the book, But the

1011
01:02:59.400 --> 01:03:03.039
<v Speaker 2>content and the context of those books is an incredible

1012
01:03:03.199 --> 01:03:06.679
<v Speaker 2>education on the behavior of the security state, whether it's

1013
01:03:06.719 --> 01:03:10.400
<v Speaker 2>about UAPs they call them now, or it's about you know,

1014
01:03:11.079 --> 01:03:17.639
<v Speaker 2>spheres of influence, the intelligence agencies, the JFK assassination. You

1015
01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:22.400
<v Speaker 2>have a serious library that Larry has put out all

1016
01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:25.039
<v Speaker 2>by himself, and I'm really proud and happy to have

1017
01:03:25.119 --> 01:03:26.519
<v Speaker 2>him on here and grateful.

1018
01:04:24.639 --> 01:04:27.679
<v Speaker 6>Do you like history, real history that you were never

1019
01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:32.280
<v Speaker 6>taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in

1020
01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:36.400
<v Speaker 6>Nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with

1021
01:04:36.599 --> 01:04:40.920
<v Speaker 6>new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes to

1022
01:04:41.039 --> 01:04:44.480
<v Speaker 6>events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War

1023
01:04:44.840 --> 01:04:49.400
<v Speaker 6>Nuclear Bombs in Nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty

1024
01:04:49.559 --> 01:04:53.639
<v Speaker 6>five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at

1025
01:04:53.760 --> 01:04:58.880
<v Speaker 6>Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swanson,

1026
01:04:59.039 --> 01:05:02.599
<v Speaker 6>Revelation Conversation Chili dot Com.

1027
01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:11.039
<v Speaker 5>Revelation through Conversation.

1028
01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:14.880
<v Speaker 7>Here it oh.

1029
01:05:18.840 --> 01:05:19.599
<v Speaker 1>Ll you.

1030
01:05:24.599 --> 01:05:35.079
<v Speaker 5>Fact, oh Shelley Fashion Trams and truth right Jay trow.

1031
01:05:38.039 --> 01:05:50.119
<v Speaker 7>RYA ain't all the world your fact?

1032
01:05:51.079 --> 01:05:52.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah?

1033
01:05:57.199 --> 01:05:57.760
<v Speaker 7>Mm hmmm.

1034
01:06:10.360 --> 01:06:20.880
<v Speaker 4>Through that.

1035
01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:23.360
<v Speaker 1>Of that.

1036
01:06:25.559 --> 01:06:25.840
<v Speaker 3>Truth.

1037
01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:30.440
<v Speaker 4>Breaking through the War State by Michael Swanson explains the

1038
01:06:30.519 --> 01:06:33.480
<v Speaker 4>great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy

1039
01:06:33.519 --> 01:06:36.800
<v Speaker 4>presidency in the context of the times and reveals never

1040
01:06:36.880 --> 01:06:40.960
<v Speaker 4>before published information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy

1041
01:06:41.039 --> 01:06:43.480
<v Speaker 4>would not have been assassinated if he had been president

1042
01:06:43.559 --> 01:06:46.840
<v Speaker 4>two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the

1043
01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:49.239
<v Speaker 4>context of the Cold War and the rise of the

1044
01:06:49.320 --> 01:06:52.800
<v Speaker 4>national security state. Before World War II, the United States

1045
01:06:52.920 --> 01:06:55.760
<v Speaker 4>was a continental republic. In the decade that followed, it

1046
01:06:55.880 --> 01:06:59.599
<v Speaker 4>became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not

1047
01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:02.440
<v Speaker 4>only wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were

1048
01:07:02.480 --> 01:07:05.559
<v Speaker 4>short range missiles on the island aren't with nuclear warheads

1049
01:07:05.719 --> 01:07:08.559
<v Speaker 4>that they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers.

1050
01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:11.360
<v Speaker 4>Their invasion could have led to a Third World War,

1051
01:07:11.719 --> 01:07:14.719
<v Speaker 4>and they wanted to go to war anyway. The War

1052
01:07:14.840 --> 01:07:18.079
<v Speaker 4>State by Michael Swanson reveals why, and we'll show you

1053
01:07:18.199 --> 01:07:19.840
<v Speaker 4>what President Kennedy was up against.

1054
01:07:20.079 --> 01:07:22.639
<v Speaker 2>For more information, The War State dot.

1055
01:07:22.559 --> 01:07:26.960
<v Speaker 3>Com dot com radio the.

1056
01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:29.239
<v Speaker 2>Vius expressed by caller Stools. There anyone else who happens

1057
01:07:29.239 --> 01:07:30.480
<v Speaker 2>to get on the air of Jelly dot com. You

1058
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:32.920
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily reflected the US little Jelly dot com or

1059
01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:35.760
<v Speaker 2>Jelly and we are not responsible. We're getting stupidity which

1060
01:07:35.800 --> 01:07:36.280
<v Speaker 2>might ensued.

1061
01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:39.760
<v Speaker 3>Thank you revelation.

1062
01:07:41.800 --> 01:07:44.119
<v Speaker 7>Through com sage.

1063
01:07:47.559 --> 01:07:53.559
<v Speaker 2>Here Shell you.

1064
01:08:01.440 --> 01:08:11.519
<v Speaker 5>Oh Shelley, Fast, trais and truth right Jay True, you

1065
01:08:11.880 --> 01:08:14.320
<v Speaker 5>are the fast.

1066
01:08:16.720 --> 01:08:26.600
<v Speaker 7>I ain't on the world. You are the hop back. Yeah, yeah,

1067
01:08:31.199 --> 01:08:36.800
<v Speaker 7>mm hmmm mm hmmm.

1068
01:08:41.279 --> 01:09:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmmm yeah.

1069
01:09:13.399 --> 01:09:14.479
<v Speaker 7>River like.

1070
01:09:17.800 --> 01:09:30.119
<v Speaker 5>Through cover, shot, carried sound, a lie aside.

1071
01:09:30.359 --> 01:09:35.039
<v Speaker 7>A reason, truth ran true.

1072
01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:05.840
<v Speaker 3>M.

1073
01:11:45.680 --> 01:11:52.920
<v Speaker 1>Own Oh.

1074
01:12:02.199 --> 01:12:07.319
<v Speaker 8>Baseline crowds raise the strings, black smoke, bleed, kick drunk,

1075
01:12:07.359 --> 01:12:12.399
<v Speaker 8>crushed bone, snaps from the beats, greed, brass, screams, loud raise,

1076
01:12:12.439 --> 01:12:14.199
<v Speaker 8>a cuts through the night, little swap.

1077
01:12:14.159 --> 01:12:16.079
<v Speaker 7>And blues bleed, dice in a fighter.

1078
01:12:20.399 --> 01:12:23.560
<v Speaker 8>Spear crashed with fire, rhythms oft the change, sweat hits

1079
01:12:23.640 --> 01:12:27.000
<v Speaker 8>the stage, pleasure point from paint, saxophone whales, shark like

1080
01:12:27.079 --> 01:12:30.039
<v Speaker 8>a fang, hip hop, Bloke, glen were chaos, sun chained,

1081
01:12:34.520 --> 01:12:37.359
<v Speaker 8>infernal roars, let the boy, John.

1082
01:12:37.359 --> 01:12:45.199
<v Speaker 9>Soon, grassing beads, pain O, sonic toom, metal grime.

1083
01:12:45.039 --> 01:12:49.199
<v Speaker 8>Soul breaks in Soon, Horns.

1084
01:12:48.880 --> 01:13:03.560
<v Speaker 9>Of madness, screaming, boom, twist, bite deep twist, the groove,

1085
01:13:03.680 --> 01:13:11.520
<v Speaker 9>insane blues and beats, breaking through the pain, trumpets, how

1086
01:13:11.680 --> 01:13:15.520
<v Speaker 9>violence caught en rage, fury unleashed on his burden stake,

1087
01:13:19.960 --> 01:13:21.840
<v Speaker 9>hip hop breaks, weathing.

1088
01:13:21.600 --> 01:13:24.840
<v Speaker 8>Through the Red, Swagger breaks, Chaos still meets brass neck.

1089
01:13:24.760 --> 01:13:25.720
<v Speaker 7>Trump, Phil murders.

1090
01:13:25.880 --> 01:13:28.359
<v Speaker 8>Cash just feels like why look Bruce talked down.

1091
01:13:28.239 --> 01:13:29.279
<v Speaker 7>The end of time.

1092
01:13:47.079 --> 01:13:47.359
<v Speaker 1>Out.

1093
01:13:47.640 --> 01:13:50.199
<v Speaker 7>It burn on Morse let the void.

1094
01:13:50.079 --> 01:13:55.600
<v Speaker 9>Consume, rossing beats, pain or sonic toom.

1095
01:13:57.079 --> 01:14:04.680
<v Speaker 7>Little Grid Soul breaks in too. It's a madness streaming.

1096
01:15:00.079 --> 01:17:59.680
<v Speaker 1>Fye more the n