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Speaker 1: Okay, Dan Hostage, thanks for thanks for coming on the

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Crime Pace podcast. I've been hearing your name for years

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now through people like Michael Easton and Adam Black Talk.

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You know, i'd ask Eason, where'd you get this fucking

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rare Texas plant? You'd always say, Oh, Dan Hostage, you

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were growing a lot of rare shit, really rare species

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from around here. So I it's an honor to finally

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meet you and hear everything you have to say. And

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you're also kind of a historian of the state of

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Texas as well, are you not.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'd say i'd be an amateur.

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Speaker 1: Right, we're sitting in a library of books. So yeah,

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So how did you end up here? And how'd you

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get into native how'd you get into the native place?

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Speaker 2: Oh? I have been growing trees since I can my

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earliest memories. My mother used to say, every coffee can

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for me, I punch holes in the bottom. And as

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we moved around, I collected seats of trees and grew

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them out and planted them in the lawn. For instance,

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from when I from where I moved from Connecticut to here,

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And you should see the dogwood I planted in nineteen

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sixty eight. When I last looked at it in two

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thousand and two, it had about a fourteen inch trunk

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and was thirty five feet tall.

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Speaker 1: So you've been into this stuff forever since you were

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a kid.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and drewid I don't know if I got the

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full suite of jeans.

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Speaker 1: Were you playing with bugs and stuff as a kid?

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Like we butterflas looking.

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Speaker 3: At the.

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Speaker 2: Oh, and it's really amphibians, you know, But that's when

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we used to have things like salamanders, which I mean

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I had salamanders here when I first moved you. You

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could go pop the rocks over here and find salamon.

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Speaker 1: So you live, you live in San Marcus.

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Speaker 2: You live in Hayes County.

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Speaker 1: You live in Hayes County basically on the eastern Agiana

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Edwards Plateau. And you've seen this area go through a

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yeahing change. You've been here forty years.

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Speaker 2: I moved your here in eighty six.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, from Connecticut.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I was in grad school in Austin, yeah,

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eighty So.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that really is so what happened? What was it?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: I mean, what is like? How did this when did

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the development really start here? Because there's massive development, there's suburbs.

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We stayed at this airbnb. This's fucking last time I'll

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ever do this. We stayed a room in an airbnb.

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This lady converted a room in this suburban community. It

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looked like the kind of place that would be built

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on top of, you know, after they demolish a place

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that you were and I would love to go, you know,

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and like, look after they demolish it, they put up

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one of these fucking hideous, depressing communities the right exactly, yeah, right,

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it's just that developers get rich quick scheme. It's depressing

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the being.

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Speaker 2: Population.

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Speaker 1: The whole time I'm there, I'm like, cut down.

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Speaker 2: On chemical use when you can, when you know, if

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you need a lawnmower, you can you know, mow your

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alam with a waiting or eighteen minutes on a Saturday morning. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The old time I was there, I was like, what

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was here even like ten years ago, you know.

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Speaker 2: But now it's been been real uh, both educational and

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extremely disheartening depressing to to fall watch what has happened.

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Like I said, when I moved here, I had that

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those black and yellow tiger Salomon though one of the

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coolest things that I was constantly pulling out of my

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pool where the box tortoise. And then after a few

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years here they started showing up with puncture wounds. So

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I bought a couple of little kiddie pools and I

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would set them in there in the shade with water.

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Speaker 1: Well was getting them dogs or dogs as.

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Speaker 2: People moved in with their dogs, and they couldn't kill them,

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but because their backs were so arched, they'd have four

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puncture wounds in it. So I bought one hundred grams

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of stripped of mycin. And a friend of mine owned

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a restaurant, so he had the kitchen staff save all

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of the oh iners of the you know, the ends

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of the onions and carrots and that, all that sort

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of stuff, and I would sprinkle the striped of micin

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on it and feed them. And there were times I

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had ten or twelve of them, and I'd let them go,

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and sure enough, three months five months later they'd be back.

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I could see where their wounds had healed, and now

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here were fresh ones. So I got a triangular file,

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started marking nicking their shells on the rim which doesn't regrow,

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and got a little book out and a little system,

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and some of these things went through my hands as

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many as five times Jesus Christ. And then by nineteen

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ninety four they were utterly gone.

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Speaker 1: They were all gone.

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Speaker 2: You've seen one since kills on the road. Not a

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salamander out here since then. First plant I saw it

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disappear from here was around all these you have the

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open areas of the grass and cactus, and then you

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have these so called mots of the cedar trees with

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the oaks and so forth. Around those months was a

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lugume Keasha Texana fernicacia.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful little yeah.

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Speaker 2: It just rained every one of these months around here,

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and the right time of the year there'd be these

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beautiful little powderpuff pink flowers on it. Well, my description

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of colors is bad.

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Speaker 1: I have oh yeah, yeah, Well I wonder what it

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is now, because they just disappear.

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Speaker 2: They're utterly gone. I've not seen one eighteen inches.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now down where I work at Sex, they're a weed.

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I don't know why. There's so many in this field

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that have made it, especially that field was used to

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grow corn for years, but there are so many there.

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They just come up spontaneously everywhere.

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Speaker 1: I don't have this suit, but that used to be

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more common here and now.

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Speaker 2: It's utterly you cannot find it out here. So many

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things have disappeared out here. But I was going to

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say nineteen ninety. In year two thousand, the Edwards Plateau

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went through its first real noticeable extinction event, which was

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all of our cool wildflowers, basically all wildflowers that were

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not members of the sunflower family and just super weedy

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things like gay Lardia and Rudbeckia, and even there now

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down to a few percent of what they are. The

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other ones, things like the petsamens and wine cups, the

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really showy stuff. One of the biggest losses was the bluebelt.

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I tell I grew some bluebells at Simex my first

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year there. The people that were freaking out.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful you stoma, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. You know bluebill motors over here, in bluebell

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ice cream and bluebell plumbia, and this, I mean, this

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is this is a blue belt. You got blue ball

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that's our state, you know flower, but this is and

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I've got books over here that people are worrying about

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them disappearing. It must have been so common in the

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twenties and thirties too. I mean just everywhere. People there

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are warning that your grandchildren are not going to know

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what this plant is if we don't conserve this.

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Speaker 1: So you've seen massive change in the forty years you've been.

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Speaker 2: I used to see fields around Brownham of bluebells that

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were sixty eighty acres solid bluebells.

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Speaker 1: What change has happened? Because you said you're really into old,

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old history, what changes happened the last one hundred that

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have happened?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so that was ninety nine, two thousand, and you know,

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the this was the big topic of discussion in all

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of the talks given it, like the Native Plant Society

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and so forth, and you know, they got a committee

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together lobby tech dot to stop these basic practices. It's

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my belief looking at it at this over the years

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that this was the really big this was the first

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sign of the huge outbreak and jumping the deer population.

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M M yeah, and everywhere here, No, they're almost nothing

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compared to most of my friends have given up their

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deer leases because you can't shoot one anymore. Why well

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there isn't. We'll get to that. That comes late, that

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comes soon.

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Speaker 1: One six months ago literally ran luckily was I go.

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Speaker 2: I tried for twenty five years. Every time I saw one,

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I would go off the road and chase it down

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the fence line to run it over. I've been investigated

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twice by Parks and Wildlife for out of season shooting.

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Speaker 1: Why because on your property or where?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I used to go out every night the first

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twenty five years I lived here. I'd go out at

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eleven and about two thirty and try to shoot sixty.

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Speaker 1: And why is the population out of control? Because the

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pretters have been wiped out.

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Speaker 2: Around Yes, primarily, But what's happened, Well, we're gonna skipping ahead,

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but what has happened with her, in my opinion, with

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the whitetail deer? And this is why the economics will

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show very clearly here now as people start, you'll see

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all these hotels and stuff closing in places like Bandera

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in Currville from the No, what's the point of going, honey,

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if you're gonna shoot a deer that you get sixteen

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pounds of meat off of and you get one shot,

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you know, over three days of waking up at four

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thirty in the morning and sending in a frozen, blind,

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deadly still you know, Oh, well, it's gonna pay a

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thousand bucks to do this, But it's sort of peaked

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in the early about two thousand and five. At the

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same time the deer population, now, I have not seen

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a dead deer between my house and the edge of

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town in two years. There was the first twenty five

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years I lived here, there would be two to six

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dead deer every time you.

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Speaker 1: So what happened to them?

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Speaker 2: They have destroyed their food source. So hoigh have crack

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All moved in to town? You would not believe. I mean,

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you've been at Michael's house. You've seen the mule deer

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coming up. I mean walking across the college campus to

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try to eat the stalks on is a gosdit.

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Speaker 1: The population everything away, well, they dwarfed.

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Speaker 2: Now most people don't know this, but in the thirties

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in Texas natural history, okay, well, first week we destroyed

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the end of the long the tall Grass Prairie was

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destroyed during the thirty strout and at that point in

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time we extincted the turkey and the white tailed deer

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in Texas. Now, the turkey that was prominent in the

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bulk of Texas was the Rio grand turkey. Now it

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was replaced in the bulk of its range. You'll only

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see the Rio grand Turkey near the near the Rio

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Grande er in for West Texas. Oh wow, shit, okay,

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all of our deer in Turkey. We did a deal

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with the state of Virginia and in Rockbridge County. And

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I found this out hitch hiking when the head of

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the George Washington National Force picked me up and we drove.

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I was hitch hiking for three hours and he was said, oh,

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let me no, you're from Texas and you're in the

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natural history. Well, let me tell you something most people

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don't know that they entered in a breeding program with

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Virginia because Virginia, our county was deemed to have the

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best white tailed deer and turkeys and everything.

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Speaker 1: From Texas had to import it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and at diversity was important. And this done on

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chromosome banding and variations.

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Speaker 1: Well what what what happened?

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Speaker 2: The state of Texas paid, sent some people up paid

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the Virginians set up a compound in Rockbridge County where

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for years they developed. They bred many many turkey and

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deer which were released in like nineteen fifty I believe

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to fifty two. I'm these are those dates are guests.

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Speaker 1: So Dan, would you say that that improper land management

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has been a fucking thing here for a while.

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Speaker 2: It's part of our state constitution. Ship for being in

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Texas is change it. And it doesn't mean just on

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the surface. I mean what is our what is Texas's

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biggest export ben for the last seventy years, arrogance, air pollution.

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Speaker 1: I'm fucking around just bizzing off all the Texans.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, honestly, if you really look at it

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of what we kick out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, pollution from what just all the oil wells and

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oil drilling or what.

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Speaker 2: You better go down to the Gulf coast.

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Speaker 1: All right, all that yeah, chemical cancer, rally, plastic I'm familiar. Right, Yeah,

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Well I want to talk Okay, let's talk about the

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Edwards Platello. Let's come back to this, because this was

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you you were saying before the juniper woodland what every

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one calls cedar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is cedar.

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Speaker 1: I mean you that wasn't the way it was three

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hundred But three hundred years ago to Hill country didn't look.

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Speaker 2: Look at all like this. No, it was prairie. It

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was tall grass.

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Speaker 1: And prairie just over fire suppression and over grazing.

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Speaker 2: Or over grazing. Now the interesting thing is is we've

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now found out that under a lot of these old

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cedar breaks, the big bluestame is sat quiescent as rhizomes.

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For over one hundred years.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was on West It ten out of San Antonio,

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about twelve fifteen miles out this old ranching family that

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had made tons of money selling the ranch off piece

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by piece to developers. I was. They took the last

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twenty acres or something of it, and a friend of

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mine became its director, really nice guy, and he called

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me up one danced, get strapp what you do and

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getting your car, get your camera, come down and see this.

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You won't believe it. What they had done was they

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had very limited funding so to build all the fences

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they needed and the wheelchair ramps and so forth, because

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all they were given was like the old dog trot

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cabin and the twelve acres or whatever it was. Oh

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this is on the me think on the south side

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of eye ted, like I said, just outside the sixteen.

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Speaker 1: So they caught all the seer because they needed.

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Speaker 2: To use well, they took they had this. They had

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a photo of the dog trot cabin from like nineteen

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oh six. And you can see on the steep hillside

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behind it like this three to six foot tall junipers. Hm.

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And they decided to clear all of that and take

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the lumber and use it for the fencing.

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Speaker 1: And yeah. So when they did that.

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Speaker 2: And they did that over a few weeks, they had

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a set of reins and the entire hill side where

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they had cut the cedar out was eighteen inches two

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feet tall. I saw the stand of big bluestone.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's why I've never seen big bluestons in central

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texas well.

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Speaker 2: It's if you cut these a lot of these now,

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if you cut them and it rains, so.

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Speaker 1: It was prairie, so burning burning, and then just like

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that's what kept all the juniper base. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very flammable. And the cool and the weird

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thing about the juniper is it's the only one of

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our trees that doesn't really come back from the base.

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If you pick all the needles by hand off of

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a mature cedar tree, it can't come back.

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Speaker 1: It dies.

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Speaker 2: They won't put new leaves out like another tree would.

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It dies.

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Speaker 1: So where did they exist before? Just in these little

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islands and vegetation amidst the prairie.

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Speaker 2: Or there's been a lot of mistaxonomy on the I

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may get in a lot of trouble by this, doctor Adams,

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if you're still around, forgive me, but the ash juniper

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is really the eastern juniper is just a western race,

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and there's named out of in the Ozona area as

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another species. It's not. These are just this was all

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chemical taxonomy done in the seventies with GC gastro chromatography.

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Speaker 1: So it's a western ecotype. Yeah, it's a gana, Yeah

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it is.

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Speaker 2: There's no we were told in grad school east of

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the if it's east of our thirty five, it's the

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eastern cedar. If it's west of thirty five, it's the ash.

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Speaker 1: Is there DNA sequences on it? You know?

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Speaker 2: No, I don't.

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Speaker 1: Probably that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: I have a high disdain for the use as it's

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currently being done genetic taxonomy. You don't take a handful

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of genes, some of which you don't even know what

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they do. You don't do just sequence these and then

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compare them, uh to you know, I mean, plants have

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so many more functional genes weeni ass vertebrates.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully hopefully, hopefully full geno become the thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got to be a full geno. Mean, you've

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got to.

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Speaker 1: Do But I'm but I'm interested in this landscape. I mean,

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this just rapid landscape. And that all plays into the

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history of this state.

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Speaker 2: There was a couple other political things that happened at

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the at the nineteenth just before the Great Drought of

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the thirties, which had to do with the Mexican workers

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being allowed to stay and bring their wives and then

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have children, which became citizens and so forth, and the

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electrification of the Hill country had traumatic change.

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Speaker 1: We were talking about this before and this is and

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you were kind of implying that the modern day fixation

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on the border and all the xenophobic shit, despite whatever

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take is, it goes back away, it goes, it goes

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they're going to take over.

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Speaker 2: It goes back to Jim Bowie, a daughter of the

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Veramendi family. You know, he married a greaser. Basically was

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the is how somebody forgive me any I don't want

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to upset anyone out there.

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Speaker 1: That was That was the old school slang derogatory term for.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and it's I I I really I love the

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citizens of Mexico as a whole.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no one's gonna no, one's gonna miss no't worry.

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We know, we know you're on the level. But but but.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's been a very very persistent and very

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deeply ingrained Uh. And it's it's it's still still present.

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And uh and and the dude, what is it? What

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are we generation eleven?

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Speaker 1: All this ship with Ken Pax then and his because

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he just filed the suit people registering legal citizens to vote,

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registering legally, he's suing people for registering legal the United

349
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States citizens developed this fucking pig. But this goes so,

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this goes back aways. I mean, this is so this

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used to be Mexico. And then a good.

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Speaker 2: Example is Wan Sagaine. Look at what happened to him,

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the guy the town of Sagenes named after the Sagein

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family wasn't very prominent Wan sagein oh Okay. In the

355
00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:25,400
Texas Revolution, right, he unlike most of the Mexicans, he

356
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sided with the Anglos. And what did he get for it?

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Within ten years of the success of the rebellion, he's

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had to be exiled. Under the tremendous hatred now that's

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being put on the remaining Hispanics.

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Speaker 1: When is this eighteen fifties, eighteen.

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Speaker 2: Sixties, eighteen, late eighteen forties.

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Speaker 1: When was the okay? So when was when when did

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00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,680
Texas steel Mexico? Basically what year.

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Speaker 2: The eighteen thirty when did Okay, there's two to two

365
00:19:00,519 --> 00:19:04,720
changing their pnds. Mid eighteen thirties, the Texas Revolution which

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was a year and a half, two years thirty four

367
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to thirty six. And then there was the Texas American

368
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War which was eighteen forty six, and that dragged on.

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Speaker 1: Texas American War. What was it?

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Speaker 2: That was when we took New Mexico, Arizona, and California.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, okay.

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Speaker 2: When they and then we bought a little bit more

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so we could run a railroad. The gats in person.

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Speaker 1: And when did Texas join the Union? Because they eighteen

375
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,759
forty eight, they applied first, and.

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Speaker 2: Well they went back and forth.

377
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Speaker 1: They applied in eighteen thirty.

378
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Speaker 2: It is a game that went back and for.

379
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Speaker 1: They applied in eighteen thirties, they got rejected, and then

380
00:19:41,599 --> 00:19:43,960
they applied again in the eighteen forties. But they were

381
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broke right.

382
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Speaker 2: Yes, and it was in the end it turned out

383
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to be a big trade where we gave up all

384
00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:57,000
our claims of Colorado and Wyoming and set the panhandle

385
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:02,079
top of the panhandle is the line agreed that you know,

386
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,480
Santa Fe was not part of Texas even though it

387
00:20:04,519 --> 00:20:06,880
was on the you know how you named the Convention

388
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,960
of Rivers like you're looking downstream the right bank, your

389
00:20:11,039 --> 00:20:12,839
right hand, the left bank. Well, i've heard it was

390
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,920
on the left bank, so it was therefore part of Texas.

391
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 1: I've heard before that there used to be more public

392
00:20:17,599 --> 00:20:20,079
land in Texas, but Texas sold it off because it

393
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,000
was broke, and that was how it traded.

394
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Speaker 2: It was broke after the war million acres, so these

395
00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:27,720
people to build a capitol.

396
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,359
Speaker 1: But how did they get to the situation today? And

397
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,480
I know you were saying varying things about this, Why

398
00:20:33,519 --> 00:20:34,880
did we get to the situation that they were only

399
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,079
one point six percent of the fucking land here is publicly.

400
00:20:37,839 --> 00:20:43,319
Speaker 2: Access as they traded the surface rights off, large portions

401
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,000
of the mineral rights, which at the time were thought

402
00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:52,200
to be next to worthless. We're given to the innascent

403
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,279
university systems when they were set up, and then, of course,

404
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:02,759
much to the chagrin of the people who lived out there,

405
00:21:05,079 --> 00:21:08,000
who you know, your mineral rights do not go with

406
00:21:08,079 --> 00:21:10,640
your property right. So go buy your.

407
00:21:10,519 --> 00:21:12,519
Speaker 1: Property and that will surprise a lot of people that

408
00:21:12,599 --> 00:21:14,759
don't live here. You can own land and not own

409
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:15,359
the mineral.

410
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,839
Speaker 2: Rights to buy my pipeline right, anybody can come in

411
00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:21,119
for my property here for nine time.

412
00:21:21,559 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 1: Not anybody, but whoever owns the mineral rights can come in.

413
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:25,880
They have to pay you, but they can come in

414
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,440
and just start drilling.

415
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 2: And they can do. Yeah, it's pretty brutal what they

416
00:21:29,519 --> 00:21:32,920
can I'm saying. Man, Well, I've had some friends that

417
00:21:33,039 --> 00:21:37,359
had a turbine lift station put two hundred feet from

418
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:37,920
their house.

419
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: Jesus.

420
00:21:38,559 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 2: Was basically the sound of a jet engine roaring twenty

421
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,720
four hours a day with people coming and going through.

422
00:21:44,759 --> 00:21:47,519
Speaker 1: Again. Did they get paid or what? No, they didn't

423
00:21:47,519 --> 00:21:49,680
get paid. I thought they have to pay you theys.

424
00:21:50,279 --> 00:21:53,079
Speaker 2: No, this was just the pipeline. They weren't taking anything.

425
00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:56,960
They would just put twin sixteen inch pipelines pipes on

426
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,519
their property. This was just the station, the power to

427
00:21:59,599 --> 00:22:01,000
rotar keep everything moving.

428
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Speaker 1: Jesus.

429
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,599
Speaker 2: Yes, their property value into nothing. They couldn't stand it

430
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,640
after a few months and destroyed.

431
00:22:07,279 --> 00:22:09,519
Speaker 1: Their so much freedom, so much freedom.

432
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, look you know, if you want to smell the

433
00:22:13,319 --> 00:22:18,160
mooneum next to a nunnery rock on, Yeah, knock yourself out.

434
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:19,160
It's all good.

435
00:22:19,519 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: But how do we get to the point where like

436
00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:25,119
the public can't appreciate except for a few crumbs of

437
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:31,000
paid access habitat, where the public can't enjoy the fucking

438
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,599
land or the plants and animals that live here.

439
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:39,759
Speaker 2: There's always been in Western Texas, there's always been a

440
00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:46,880
very strong love hate relationship. People would, you know, kill

441
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,599
one of their neighbors over a few acres of dust,

442
00:22:52,519 --> 00:22:55,119
and then at the same time they turn around and go,

443
00:22:55,319 --> 00:22:58,680
why am I living in this spiny hell hole where

444
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:03,279
everything's either spine any poisonous or just you know, how

445
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:03,960
to eat you.

446
00:23:04,839 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: I love it. It's funny what some people think of it.

447
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,799
But yeah, I know it's yeah, but you're.

448
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,839
Speaker 2: Talking about what I was talking about earlier, about that

449
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,759
the old adage that no no real textan is born here. Yeah,

450
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,319
that's that is really why that's still ingrained. Let's get

451
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:20,880
back to that.

452
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: Okay, why would you said that used to be the same?

453
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,440
Why was that? Because it still is still If you

454
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,200
were born here, you were Mexican or what what is that.

455
00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:32,079
Speaker 2: Yes, that was the original. Yes, because if you were

456
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:37,160
born here like eighteen fifty five or before, Yeah, you were,

457
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,920
you were you were a Mexican.

458
00:23:39,799 --> 00:23:41,279
Speaker 1: Right, because that's who he stole it from.

459
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,039
Speaker 2: Now we yah, they were the land owners and had

460
00:23:44,079 --> 00:23:46,839
been here for you know, looking San antin know Bear

461
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,279
County sixteen eighties, you know, and then you know, for

462
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:51,480
Sidio and the churches.

463
00:23:51,559 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 1: I just, you know what fucking drives me nuts. And

464
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,759
I hear this ship all the time from these fucking meatheads.

465
00:23:55,759 --> 00:23:59,240
He's empty headed nitwits, always a man, you know, always

466
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,279
being like, don't come here, don't move here, go back

467
00:24:01,279 --> 00:24:02,839
to where you came from, you know, and.

468
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:04,039
Speaker 2: Blah blah, I came here.

469
00:24:04,079 --> 00:24:06,039
Speaker 1: Where the fuck did you come from? You you you

470
00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:09,000
only moved here when you're the fucking rangers made it

471
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:13,599
safe enough by extra painting the command there, cowboy. You know,

472
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,039
once the comanches were taken care of and you.

473
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 2: Felt they were late comers of Texas, they only came in.

474
00:24:19,039 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, they wiped out the apaches. I mean this, this

475
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:26,960
fucking state has been a sight of and violence centuries.

476
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 2: Dynamic population changes.

477
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:34,799
Speaker 1: Right right, dynamic. It's a nice euphemism, but seriously, you

478
00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:36,440
know that. You know that's saying don't come here with

479
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,000
your years ago.

480
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,039
Speaker 2: Were that because a lot of people came here and

481
00:24:43,079 --> 00:24:45,680
looked around and said, you know, basically.

482
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:45,799
Speaker 1: Screw this.

483
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 2: Between an Indian behind every tree, that's the lacy dog. Okay,

484
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,319
between that and there's no money, you gotta barter everything.

485
00:24:57,319 --> 00:25:02,039
Oh there's no schools, there's no then, not even at

486
00:25:02,079 --> 00:25:03,839
a paved road, no railroads.

487
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: It just didn't have the right attitude. I love, I

488
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,799
loved the fucking limestone here, the limestone and the missions.

489
00:25:09,839 --> 00:25:13,279
Speaker 2: That's where that ethos comes from. That if you come

490
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,000
here and see this and you embrace it, then you

491
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,480
really are a Texan. Otherwise you leave me, get the

492
00:25:19,519 --> 00:25:22,079
hell out of here. And this is now. This has

493
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,559
been extended in a way in rural Texas, particularly the

494
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,519
under popular the central and western portions of Texas. The

495
00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:33,160
phenomenon of the young people that are born on these

496
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,799
you know, two square mile or two hundred and sixty

497
00:25:35,839 --> 00:25:40,200
square mile ranches that are in a family trust, and

498
00:25:40,319 --> 00:25:42,920
they go to college and the last thing they want

499
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,319
to do is come back and run that ranch or

500
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,559
even live there, not have to work, and just live

501
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:54,079
off of the oil and gas royalties. No, no, they

502
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,359
can now handle Austin. Before they all you know, it

503
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,519
used to be New Orleans, Lewis. Now you know then

504
00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:04,319
it was you know, in the fifties it would be

505
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:11,079
Dallas and Houston. Now it's it's Austin. It becomes acceptable

506
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,039
to live. I can live here. There's enough culture and

507
00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:18,920
cool enough shit to buy. But the old timers that

508
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,400
sort of thing, you know, you got to love your land,

509
00:26:22,599 --> 00:26:27,519
and those people, the ones that really continue to hold

510
00:26:27,599 --> 00:26:30,440
that and has become part of their mental DNA. Those

511
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,119
are the people who really have well run ranches that

512
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,200
aren't infested with green sprangle top taking everything over. Instead

513
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:43,559
of this, you know, embracing like you know, throwing hundreds

514
00:26:43,559 --> 00:26:47,960
of pounds of coastal Bermuda seed outable light aircraft to

515
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:49,599
increase your pasturage.

516
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's sort of crazy shit.

517
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, instead of you, you know, you went and you

518
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,680
killed this most of you know what was once six

519
00:26:56,759 --> 00:26:59,839
feet tall in the most high protein, nutritious palable g

520
00:27:00,079 --> 00:27:03,039
u You could have you killed that over five generations,

521
00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:05,039
and now you're coming back with a ship from.

522
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: All the native grass, you know, a rich diversity of

523
00:27:11,799 --> 00:27:14,640
native grass species. Yeah, we have you know, Dan, I'm

524
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,799
gonna have to go ahead and make the observation once

525
00:27:16,839 --> 00:27:19,200
again that ship for brained land management has been a

526
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:20,759
stelle works.

527
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,079
Speaker 2: It's actually one of those for centuries centuries terms in

528
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,799
this state is it's you know, it's not land management.

529
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,200
It's land exploitation. Exploitation, it's not land managed.

530
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: There's no appreciation, there's no appreciation of respect.

531
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 2: There's a group I'm not going to say by name

532
00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:40,799
because I've been at odds with them and they they

533
00:27:41,519 --> 00:27:43,640
hate me so much they will not let me on

534
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,440
there on any property they control because I have great

535
00:27:47,559 --> 00:27:51,720
you know, accuse them of perpetuating this and enshrining this

536
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,119
is is doing the right things. This is like yeah,

537
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,480
that's that that that's shoot the last of our waning

538
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:06,359
waterfowl and feel good and buy a stamp that has

539
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,400
a duck on it. You know. It's hey, this is

540
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:10,960
not this is not right thinking.

541
00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:14,279
Speaker 1: But the thing that spray, the thing that drives me

542
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,559
nuts though, is like, and my friend Kyle's always talking

543
00:28:16,559 --> 00:28:19,160
about his Native Habitat project. He's in Alabama, and he's

544
00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:21,279
the thing that that strikes me is it's not that

545
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:26,720
hard to do right for the Native animals and life

546
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,359
around you. You plant the native plants, you learn about it,

547
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,440
you see what they like, you reflect on it. But

548
00:28:31,519 --> 00:28:34,160
there's there's so little of that here well because and

549
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,079
the problem is is there's so little paying attention to it.

550
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: I don't know about East Texas, but I can tell

551
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,400
you on the Edwards Plateau that we have brought in

552
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:50,279
such an unholy assemblage of such aggressive non native plants

553
00:28:50,799 --> 00:28:57,880
that it is virtually impossible now to do a revegetation.

554
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: Like is really the fucking what does a privet? This

555
00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:01,920
really fucked things up.

556
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: Well, privileged time has come. It's ending. No, the privetage

557
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,480
time is you'll see it in your life. I probably

558
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,799
won't in mind, maybe if I hang on twenty years,

559
00:29:11,119 --> 00:29:14,799
but twenty years from no privet other than coming up

560
00:29:14,839 --> 00:29:18,519
in people's backyards. Now the privet unbelievably, this is a

561
00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:23,000
great story of evolution that I saw ten twelve years

562
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,720
ago right at Peace Park in Austin, working for this

563
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,960
very wealthy just doing a little land appraisal of this

564
00:29:29,599 --> 00:29:33,000
four acres she had right on Shoal Creek. I looked

565
00:29:33,039 --> 00:29:37,440
over and looked at this nice spring set and it

566
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:44,640
was just covered in what I thought, initially, goddamn MFN lagustrum.

567
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,519
And finally, after working in the sun for an hour

568
00:29:49,519 --> 00:29:54,000
and a half and trying to physically show this woman

569
00:29:54,079 --> 00:29:57,039
that the way she wanted to do this was not possible,

570
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,279
was not going to work, and she was just thrown

571
00:30:01,279 --> 00:30:04,119
away a lot of good money. And you get over it.

572
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,599
You know, use a herbicide properly.

573
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: Uh you're trying to remove by hand or what?

574
00:30:11,359 --> 00:30:18,519
Speaker 2: It was this invasive Asian, very showy, weedy fine that

575
00:30:19,319 --> 00:30:24,000
the male piggy acy that goes underground puts unbelievably. I mean,

576
00:30:24,079 --> 00:30:26,759
for every pound of start it has above ground, she

577
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,920
got five below ground. You are kid, If you think

578
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,759
you're gonna get a bunch of college students to pull

579
00:30:32,839 --> 00:30:35,000
up this quarter acre of it, all that's going to

580
00:30:35,039 --> 00:30:38,079
happen to get every step that comes up, Oh no,

581
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,920
they dug down and you know, pulled it.

582
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: I said, now already one second, just hold hold up

583
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,880
one Okay, So back to the lugustrium.

584
00:30:46,039 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're working in this yard off of Peace Park,

585
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,079
which is Shoal Creek running down the heart of Austin.

586
00:30:51,279 --> 00:30:54,839
And I walked over to get a little to go

587
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,319
over and look at this spring that was surrounded by

588
00:30:57,359 --> 00:31:01,920
what I thought was solid laugustri and lo and behold

589
00:31:02,039 --> 00:31:06,960
the Carolina cherry. Oh nice, which I'll never forget. The

590
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,160
first day of grad school, we go out walk around

591
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,079
with the doctor Turner, who's now deceased, and he all

592
00:31:12,079 --> 00:31:16,519
of a sudden yes, yeah, in a fit of anger

593
00:31:16,799 --> 00:31:20,519
and cursing, goes up to this landscape that was just

594
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,759
planted in the last few days, grabs this fifteen gallon,

595
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,039
eight foot tall inch and a half Carolina cherry, pulls

596
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,480
it out of the ground, starts kicking the side of

597
00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:34,839
the root balls, picking it up and shaking it.

598
00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: Off. It.

599
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,039
Speaker 2: No, it's native to Texas. Oh yeah, it's all over

600
00:31:40,119 --> 00:31:45,960
East Texas. But he's like these goddamn fu shiptheads in

601
00:31:46,039 --> 00:31:47,359
the goddamn.

602
00:31:48,599 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: He can't grow here.

603
00:31:50,079 --> 00:31:54,759
Speaker 2: He's gonna have assis soil. Look he's look there. That

604
00:31:54,839 --> 00:31:57,519
one was planted last year. It only had every leaf on.

605
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,599
It is yellow. The few leaves that are running, it'll

606
00:31:59,599 --> 00:32:02,039
be dead in a month. They've been doing this for

607
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,759
thirty years. I've been at war with these guys, so

608
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,160
now as soon as they plan them, I just pull

609
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,759
them out and kill them. That can you ain't my

610
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,039
tenure for that whem. So they're really stuck in my head,

611
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,640
especially when I started a native plant nursery, because I

612
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,680
was like, man, we have so few evergreens. That's something

613
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,119
a lot of people never come to ground.

614
00:32:19,519 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: What about the lagustrium?

615
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:20,559
Speaker 2: Is this?

616
00:32:20,759 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: Okay? This is all later?

617
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 2: So I'm down there chow cream, and I go back

618
00:32:26,279 --> 00:32:28,440
to look at this spring in this grotto that the

619
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,680
spring's coming out of, and I look and it's no,

620
00:32:32,559 --> 00:32:37,319
it's half Carolina cherry and half look astrom. They look

621
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:43,160
very similar at sixty feet, especially with my poor eyesight. Well,

622
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,240
they were in seat. So I grabbed a bunch. I

623
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,920
came back, put them through the cycle in the fridge

624
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,880
for three months in per light, and so forth plan

625
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,799
them out. I took a hundred of them and put

626
00:32:53,839 --> 00:32:58,480
them in pure Collegian one gallus. They grew two feet

627
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:03,240
in the first year, green and solid. They had been

628
00:33:03,319 --> 00:33:07,200
here yep, in thee hundred years, one hundred and twenty years.

629
00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:11,160
People kept bringing them out of Houston nurseries. They got selected.

630
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:16,200
They have heavy selection pressure. I now have got I'm

631
00:33:16,279 --> 00:33:19,799
so happy my trees that I planted from that population

632
00:33:20,319 --> 00:33:24,200
at Sex now have thousands of seeds on them. I'm

633
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,680
going to collect them here in about.

634
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,519
Speaker 1: Because you don't get acid soil in that anywhere this.

635
00:33:29,559 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: Occasion you get circumnutral. But there is acid soil. Yeah,

636
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:36,000
you know, you get at You can make any almost

637
00:33:36,079 --> 00:33:39,039
any soil acid if you maintain it wet long enough.

638
00:33:40,599 --> 00:33:45,079
Life does not like alkaline pH and it will slowly.

639
00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:50,960
It's got to be maintained with if it drives real, yes,

640
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,240
it just needs water and time.

641
00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: Well, we'll make When did you fall in love with

642
00:33:55,599 --> 00:33:57,480
the floor here though? Like when I was in grad

643
00:33:57,519 --> 00:33:59,440
school and what were you going to grad.

644
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:03,559
Speaker 2: School for plant chemistry? Yeah? I went to a small

645
00:34:03,599 --> 00:34:08,440
college in Virginia, Washington and Lee. I was tricked into,

646
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,719
i think as they wanted to get me out of

647
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:16,639
being a natural history major. This is funny because one

648
00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:20,199
of the people at CMX, one of them took a

649
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,280
few hours on the internet to find out that so

650
00:34:23,519 --> 00:34:25,960
few people after like I told them, like, oh yeah,

651
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,760
after like nineteen hundred, very few people got a degree

652
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,480
in this. But you know, civil war, that's what everybody

653
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,199
You either got a degree in philosophy or natural science,

654
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:37,480
natural history.

655
00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:41,679
Speaker 1: Okay, so plant chemistry. So you were you were a chemist.

656
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,559
Speaker 2: Basically you knew, Oh well that's what I was going

657
00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:47,920
to be my major at Washington and Lee, and I

658
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,760
took the placement test. I got pulled into the Dean

659
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,880
of student's office like that afternoon, and there's like five

660
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,679
of the people from you know, physics, biology and geology

661
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,760
and math, and they're like, oh, hey, this is not

662
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,119
going to fly being a major in chemistry. And I said,

663
00:35:08,119 --> 00:35:10,639
well why not? And they said, well, we have nothing

664
00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:13,639
to teach you. All you have to do to graduate

665
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:19,079
is take two three credit courses you placed out of

666
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:24,599
everything so to fulfill your degree in chemistry. So you'd

667
00:35:24,679 --> 00:35:28,480
just be sitting around here getting really drunk and taking

668
00:35:28,559 --> 00:35:32,880
your passing your two courses to finish your degree. And

669
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,920
we don't like that. So we've been thinking. We talked

670
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,920
about it. We think you since you tested out so

671
00:35:39,079 --> 00:35:41,880
well and everything else, and you had great math aptitude

672
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,199
even though you say you don't like it, but you're

673
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,360
really good at it, why don't you know you should

674
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,440
be a natural history major. Well, I didn't realize when

675
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,960
I said sure, sign me up, that that meant I

676
00:35:52,159 --> 00:36:02,519
was majoring in chemistry, biology, astronomy, mathematics, I've got five

677
00:36:02,679 --> 00:36:07,760
semesters of calculus, Jesus fuck, and one semester.

678
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,039
Speaker 1: Of the When is this what were you in college?

679
00:36:10,079 --> 00:36:11,199
This is late sixties, This.

680
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 2: Was seventy five graduated classes seventy nine.

681
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: So but you were a chemist too, And this is

682
00:36:17,039 --> 00:36:19,519
I have to ask, were you ever we ever involved

683
00:36:19,559 --> 00:36:22,559
in making wells?

684
00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 2: Were legal? Yeah? Legal because there was a cut off

685
00:36:26,199 --> 00:36:27,360
what was it eighty five.

686
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 1: Eighty six, like compounds like MD or MD.

687
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:36,199
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, those were fairly easily made, you know, but yeah,

688
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,159
and then they were legal at the time.

689
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,039
Speaker 1: Were they being used for therapy at that No, not

690
00:36:41,199 --> 00:36:41,639
at that time.

691
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,119
Speaker 2: It was just really it was it was obviously I

692
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,920
never liked them. I've never I've always apported almost all

693
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:54,679
them fedements. Uh uh, you know they are me only Yeah,

694
00:36:55,159 --> 00:36:58,480
only used for fedaments for long car drives, for public safety.

695
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,079
Speaker 1: I mean, I got I am eight years sober. I

696
00:37:01,559 --> 00:37:04,679
was never into narcotics really, but psychedelics I found to

697
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:05,880
be helpful for certain things.

698
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 2: Oh no, it drove me crazy as a child. And

699
00:37:11,039 --> 00:37:13,280
it was only in the fifth grade when I realized

700
00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:16,079
that everybody didn't have a brain like mine that remembered

701
00:37:16,119 --> 00:37:18,559
everything exactly as it happened, and it got me in

702
00:37:18,639 --> 00:37:20,199
a lot of trouble. And I said, no, that is

703
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,840
not what you said, sir. You said, then she said,

704
00:37:23,079 --> 00:37:26,679
then my mother said, then I said, then you said, like, no,

705
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,000
that's not how I remember. Well, that's not maybe how

706
00:37:29,039 --> 00:37:31,119
you remember it, sir, but that's how it happened.

707
00:37:32,079 --> 00:37:35,199
Speaker 1: So back then people were mostly using these compounds for record.

708
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,559
Speaker 2: There was very loch. Yeah, I mean to destroy my

709
00:37:37,679 --> 00:37:41,599
crystally memory, which was a source of endless conflict with

710
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:47,280
the adults around me, particularly above me. It took considerable

711
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,960
determining chronic use of hallucinogens to finally destroy that part

712
00:37:53,039 --> 00:37:56,639
of my brain. Thank god, because now I can forget things.

713
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 1: Like mescaline analogs or what were you mostly d Yeah, yeah, yeah,

714
00:38:02,519 --> 00:38:06,239
that's probably pretty easy to make. I was, oh, well once,

715
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:07,400
you know, for a chemist.

716
00:38:08,079 --> 00:38:10,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, for instance, when I when

717
00:38:10,559 --> 00:38:12,840
I graduated from college, I took a few months off

718
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,079
and went by myself and did a tour of Egypt

719
00:38:15,199 --> 00:38:21,639
and Greece backpacking, and I got picked up by three

720
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,960
guys in a VW van and we started talking and

721
00:38:25,559 --> 00:38:30,119
after a couple hours they admitted to me that they

722
00:38:31,159 --> 00:38:33,199
they had to do it every two years, take the

723
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,760
van and go down and with a bunch of cash

724
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,960
and go to all the pharmacies in Greece and by

725
00:38:39,559 --> 00:38:42,679
one hundred here, two hundred there of these like two

726
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,599
milligram rogotamine tablets of Jesus that they would take back

727
00:38:47,079 --> 00:38:47,559
to their bar.

728
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 1: Is that basically acid?

729
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 2: What is that's the core?

730
00:38:50,519 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 1: The precursor?

731
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they have to sit down and make diethylamine.

732
00:38:55,199 --> 00:38:58,280
You know, get some dry ice and acetone and make

733
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,679
it and condense it because it oils. I don't know,

734
00:39:00,679 --> 00:39:02,199
I don't have a working mix in front of it,

735
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:03,440
and it boils it. You know.

736
00:39:03,559 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: So you met some gression acid cooks basically yeah, these

737
00:39:08,639 --> 00:39:10,360
these these were Swiss. Oh Swiss.

738
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,519
Speaker 2: They were making LSD. So they said, yeah, we make

739
00:39:13,639 --> 00:39:18,440
you know, twenty five forty grams and sell it in

740
00:39:18,559 --> 00:39:23,039
one gram you know ampules ready? Ye? I mean I said,

741
00:39:23,079 --> 00:39:25,159
oh that makes it? Yeah, that makes me thousands?

742
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 1: And what was there god being sold for?

743
00:39:27,559 --> 00:39:30,760
Speaker 2: Like? What was I used to you? Until I had

744
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,000
a fall which fixed it? I got in a fight

745
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,559
in college which caused me to have migraines.

746
00:39:39,079 --> 00:39:41,039
Speaker 1: Okay falls here.

747
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 2: Actually it was a tree. That tree back of there,

748
00:39:44,039 --> 00:39:49,480
that giant like a fifteen inch limb off that live

749
00:39:49,559 --> 00:39:52,239
oak in a windstorm broke and fell and whapped me

750
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:53,559
on the back of the head. It's one of the

751
00:39:53,639 --> 00:39:56,679
two toes of my life. I've been knocked unconscious. Hey,

752
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,800
the benefit I got I haven't had a migraine.

753
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: Seid the migraines out of it.

754
00:40:01,039 --> 00:40:03,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, it rearranged whatever it happened in that fight in

755
00:40:03,599 --> 00:40:06,159
my neck, pinching the the nerves.

756
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,519
Speaker 1: So how did you get into plant chemistry that? Like,

757
00:40:08,559 --> 00:40:10,360
why did you pick that? You were already in the nature.

758
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 2: I was always fascinated by alkaloids. Yeah. The alkaloid structures

759
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,000
are just so chemically beautiful.

760
00:40:16,119 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and these are almostly these are mostly I mean

761
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,679
most alkaloids are are synthesized by the plant to keep

762
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:22,239
things from meeting.

763
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,639
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the anti feed absolutely And.

764
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: There is there any other use for them within plant cells? Really?

765
00:40:29,039 --> 00:40:31,159
Or is it mostly just that thereby.

766
00:40:33,039 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 2: It's but you know, as a you know, it's an

767
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,760
arms race. It's really a wonderful example of an arms race.

768
00:40:40,199 --> 00:40:43,280
Plant group develops this this group of alkaloids, and then

769
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,880
something learns to exploit it, and then something learns to

770
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:48,800
exploit the exploiter of the plant.

771
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't know there were specifict beetles until

772
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,960
recently there were what specifist beetles, like beetles that specialize

773
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,920
on a certain of course post plant.

774
00:40:58,960 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 2: That's great.

775
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,119
Speaker 1: I just know what you just think of butterflies and

776
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,360
months I didn't. It's wild to me. I mean, I'm

777
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,920
just getting into entomology. I'm obviously not a fucking bug guy,

778
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,199
but I'm you know, yeah, with my daughter, I dabble

779
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,320
now because she's really into bugs. She's for she fucking

780
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,320
loves looking at bugs. So it's like, you know, my my,

781
00:41:15,519 --> 00:41:15,880
I live.

782
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 2: You need to get you need to spend a few

783
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,239
holes and get hurt. This is the young one. Yeah,

784
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,199
you get spent, get you got it?

785
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 1: You can we got that ten pounds home native North

786
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,199
American insects or a guy to North American insects.

787
00:41:30,199 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 2: I'll show you. You want to get her one of these? Yeah,

788
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,360
because I used to take it up to my son

789
00:41:36,039 --> 00:41:39,599
elementary school and the kids went that was worked off

790
00:41:39,639 --> 00:41:42,079
them over bugs so fast that when they were looking

791
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,920
at a cockroach or firing in on its back at

792
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,960
three hundred magnification they were just like that is you

793
00:41:48,079 --> 00:41:51,239
weren't getting that is so cool? Yeah, that's beautiful.

794
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: Look, that's such a good gateway for kids to get

795
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,239
into nature and get them away for all of his classes,

796
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,440
the shopping death cult. So when okay, so we're all

797
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:02,880
over the place now, but I want to go back

798
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,199
to this. So the Edwards Plateau, when did you really

799
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:09,840
see because from basically from Dallas south to San Antonio

800
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,039
maybe some blank spots in between, it's just an endless

801
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,800
It's the ugliest landscape I've seen along I thirty five.

802
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,960
It's just showing parking.

803
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 2: Lots you've never driven from, which never.

804
00:42:21,559 --> 00:42:26,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I can think of a couple other hideous places, like, hey,

805
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,159
America is really good at creating some of the ugliest

806
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:29,960
landscapes in the first world. I'm not going to argue

807
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,039
with you there, but that this is this would definitely

808
00:42:32,119 --> 00:42:38,800
be top five hious, especially and it looked like it

809
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,719
was so gorgeous. I mean, the Balcone's fucking escarpment. Man,

810
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,960
this is cretaceous limestone has been uplifted like a staircase

811
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,519
of high school and you watched it go.

812
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what's my first real experience.

813
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 1: With it and so many endemic plants. There's so many

814
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,360
plants that only grow on the Edwards Plateau and people

815
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:00,159
will never well.

816
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 2: That was one of the things that I decided, you know,

817
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,800
to focus a lot of the nursery stalk on was there,

818
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,440
because it really is a meeting of.

819
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: Nobody grows the ship you were growing, right, it's a

820
00:43:10,039 --> 00:43:12,480
meeting of Mexico with Appalachia. It's where the content dries

821
00:43:12,519 --> 00:43:14,239
out from east to west. It's right on the hundreds

822
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,840
of any in the west, there's already on limestone. I

823
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:19,320
think a lot of people don't realize it's like and

824
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,719
I learned this in the Mojave Desert of California, where

825
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,079
it's mostly volcanic, but then you've got these islands of limestone,

826
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,239
and when you would get to the limestone, boom, You've

827
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,559
got a whole different fucking flora. There's a couple of

828
00:43:29,599 --> 00:43:32,480
plants that you'll still see on the limestone that you know.

829
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 2: The degreemism when it was pointed out to me in

830
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,559
the Hill Country that it was the highest degree of

831
00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:39,079
endemism of any landlock.

832
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,599
Speaker 1: It's nuts. It's so cool and you can grow up

833
00:43:42,639 --> 00:43:44,559
in San Antonio. You can grow up in the suburbs

834
00:43:44,599 --> 00:43:47,840
of San Marcos or fucking Austin and never know any

835
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,119
of the cool ship that grows here and never know what.

836
00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 2: It's a little bit late to know because it's mostly gone. Yeah,

837
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,559
I mean, you've just seen, like when I'm when I

838
00:43:56,679 --> 00:43:59,760
moved here, all of these rivers in the hill country

839
00:44:00,559 --> 00:44:02,320
right now, we could have gone into the truck were

840
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,679
dripping up to they were flowing, and on one side

841
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,880
you usually get a cliff on one side and then

842
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,920
a shallow rise on the other. On the side of

843
00:44:11,039 --> 00:44:15,559
the shallow fucker would be Gorris, three foot tall, ten

844
00:44:15,639 --> 00:44:17,280
foot wide. They just went a.

845
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: Spiritually soothing That's what I need. That's what I need.

846
00:44:20,559 --> 00:44:22,800
Be after I met looking at a fucking Chick fil

847
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,000
A sign in the parking lot of a wallfart or something,

848
00:44:25,159 --> 00:44:27,119
you know, I was, I was a Casey Williams.

849
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 2: Wist the cardinal flowers with the millions of the humming

850
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,480
birds I met, I would see that would really yeah

851
00:44:32,679 --> 00:44:35,639
when it when it covered every side of one of

852
00:44:35,679 --> 00:44:38,559
the river, sometimes both sides, but then you'd see ten

853
00:44:38,639 --> 00:44:42,920
thousand hummingbirds of three species. Jesus busing Jesus Christ. And

854
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,800
if we got going too sabinall was it the con

855
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,920
can The only place I've ever seen into sycanthus in

856
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,039
the wild. There used to be a twenty acre field

857
00:44:52,039 --> 00:44:56,039
of into sycanthus eight feet tall species. The only one

858
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:58,599
that's here. Oh no, it's there's that one perublo that

859
00:44:58,679 --> 00:44:59,039
I've got.

860
00:44:59,199 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: So anybody listening, they can't they see. It's a really

861
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,760
cool fucking shrub with these beautiful flowers, really unique flowers.

862
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,760
Speaker 2: And it's you know, obviously hummingbird pollinated. See only time

863
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,400
I ever saw hummingbirds not doing the rapid when ringing flooded,

864
00:45:12,639 --> 00:45:15,239
flying like a regular bird, and you could walk out

865
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,280
into them and they'd post about four to six feet

866
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,199
away from you. But all you had to do was

867
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,880
stand still for thirty seconds, and they blew you off,

868
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:23,800
and they would go back to flapping their wings like

869
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,719
a regular bird and lazily skidding from branch to branch,

870
00:45:28,119 --> 00:45:32,159
drenching themselves in the nectar from the billions of orange

871
00:45:32,199 --> 00:45:35,199
and red flowers in the acres of them in front

872
00:45:35,199 --> 00:45:38,079
of you. But that all disappeared overnight in a flood

873
00:45:38,119 --> 00:45:40,599
in the nineties. It's one of the damnest things I've

874
00:45:40,639 --> 00:45:45,280
ever seen on the Seveinol. There's a little town called

875
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,960
Concin that you had a few cuts, like cottages on

876
00:45:49,079 --> 00:45:52,039
the sabinall there was a small dam and all these

877
00:45:52,119 --> 00:45:54,679
cottages on it. People would go out and rent, and

878
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:56,400
it was all washed away in this flood.

879
00:45:56,679 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: I was with Casey Williams two weeks going to Sam

880
00:45:59,519 --> 00:46:02,679
Marco's over here and ask them why is the Because

881
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,760
the water color is like blue, It's like this beautiful blue,

882
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,000
and it's because of the limestone geologies, because of the

883
00:46:08,079 --> 00:46:11,559
bicarbonate in the water. I didn't know that. I mean

884
00:46:11,599 --> 00:46:14,519
that fucking blew my mind. I mean, it looks noticeably

885
00:46:14,599 --> 00:46:15,280
different from.

886
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:16,559
Speaker 2: I can't confirm that.

887
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 1: I looked it up. It's legit, so you get that

888
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,039
in limestone geology. But it was. It was great. I

889
00:46:21,079 --> 00:46:25,199
mean again, it just strikes me how beautiful and intoxicatingly

890
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:25,840
fucking cool.

891
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: Oh it was so crazy. Yeah, I mean we finally

892
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,880
there's finally some water in the rivers. But they had

893
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,320
been pretty much dry the last one.

894
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,679
Speaker 1: So when did the really big sport of development happen

895
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,679
the last ten years, last twenty, Like.

896
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,679
Speaker 2: What well, there was It's been several phases in the seventies.

897
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:47,639
You had like the colonization of Lake Travis. You had

898
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:53,199
like the several Lake Way and Lago Vista and all

899
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:54,079
those developments.

900
00:46:54,199 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 1: There's still going out there.

901
00:46:55,679 --> 00:46:59,079
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, you know when I was in grad school,

902
00:46:59,519 --> 00:47:02,760
go out to Hippy Hollow and that was when you

903
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,639
drove across the dam, which you can't do now because

904
00:47:05,639 --> 00:47:10,360
of security reasons. But when you look down the downstream side,

905
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:17,000
there was no one road structure, man made structure that

906
00:47:17,159 --> 00:47:20,039
you could see. And now there must be what twenty

907
00:47:20,079 --> 00:47:20,800
five and.

908
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,199
Speaker 1: There's nothing protecting it. There's nothing protecting This is another

909
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,480
thing that I think is unique too. It's like when

910
00:47:26,519 --> 00:47:29,599
everything's private, everything can be sold. I'm not saying public

911
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,239
land can't be sold, but a lot of public land

912
00:47:32,679 --> 00:47:34,559
in areas in the West, like in Novat or whatever,

913
00:47:34,679 --> 00:47:37,280
if it can be sold off for fucking mining for whatever,

914
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,840
but to be sold off for development that would be

915
00:47:40,039 --> 00:47:41,960
that would be earlier.

916
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,800
Speaker 2: I should have made you this clear to you. When

917
00:47:46,039 --> 00:47:50,840
Texas became a state, one of the provisos was that

918
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:56,000
we retained all of our public land. There were no

919
00:47:56,519 --> 00:48:00,199
right federal lands in Texas till we dumped those two

920
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,599
National forests in East Texas on them. After logging them.

921
00:48:03,599 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: They're still owned by Texas, but Texas sold a lot

922
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:06,920
of it too.

923
00:48:07,159 --> 00:48:09,639
Speaker 2: Well, we we dumped those on the federal government because

924
00:48:09,639 --> 00:48:11,599
it cost us too much money to maintain them. As

925
00:48:11,639 --> 00:48:11,880
a fire.

926
00:48:12,159 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 1: All of Texas's owned public land, it's mostly sold off.

927
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,519
Speaker 2: Well, there never was any public land. Well, it was

928
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,960
Texas land. It was never a federal land. You don't understand.

929
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,320
The difference is legally apparently between Bureau of Land Management

930
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,599
land that's sacred. You've got to go through Washington, right.

931
00:48:28,639 --> 00:48:31,519
Speaker 1: Right, that's federal land, national forests, federal land.

932
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 2: If it's state land, well it can be bought and

933
00:48:34,639 --> 00:48:37,679
sold at the women of who's ever an elected office.

934
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and that's what happened, and that.

935
00:48:40,039 --> 00:48:45,519
Speaker 2: Happens in every state. It's just most states don't own Texas.

936
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:47,159
Speaker 1: Land.

937
00:48:47,199 --> 00:48:51,119
Speaker 2: It didn't come in as a state owning outright. I

938
00:48:51,199 --> 00:48:54,880
mean ninety percent of their total if where footage was

939
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:55,719
owned by the state.

940
00:48:56,199 --> 00:48:58,559
Speaker 1: If you look at a map of public lands in

941
00:48:58,599 --> 00:49:03,039
the west, once you get west of Texas, everything there's huge.

942
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:07,639
Speaker 2: It's huge because it was from the Republic of Mexico

943
00:49:08,079 --> 00:49:10,079
and it was all federal land.

944
00:49:10,159 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: And it was never but it was never sold to people.

945
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:14,280
It was never privatized.

946
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,599
Speaker 2: It was and I guess it's still people trying to

947
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:17,239
do that all.

948
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:18,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course, of course.

949
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 2: You know they started chipping in with a great grazing rights,

950
00:49:24,559 --> 00:49:28,360
with logging rights, with mineral rights. You know, they've been

951
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,039
chipping with people in Texas.

952
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: That's what drives me nuts. It's like, man, you don't

953
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:34,800
people who grew up here don't know what it's like

954
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:36,400
to just be like, you want to go look at

955
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,360
that mountain. Let's just fucking go. Let's see what's growing

956
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:39,880
on there. And then where are we going to sleep?

957
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 2: Then?

958
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. How about that mountain over there? Just

959
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:42,639
roll in the back of the truck. You could just

960
00:49:42,679 --> 00:49:44,119
sleep there. I was going to fuck.

961
00:49:44,519 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 2: Was that was real? Something?

962
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 1: I really?

963
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:48,639
Speaker 2: I knew that when I moved here.

964
00:49:48,559 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: And you mentioned that the people and they're like, well,

965
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,960
ifever they was public, it will just be people out

966
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,039
there and they fucked up, and well people could just

967
00:49:55,119 --> 00:49:57,039
trash it. But I don't really see that too much.

968
00:49:57,559 --> 00:50:00,280
And private landowners can trash land too. I see private

969
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:04,559
landowners bulldozing creeks, clearing whole fuck, wiping out in danger.

970
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: Filled the cave with four generations of a used appliances,

971
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,039
and they're rather than pay twenty private, like.

972
00:50:12,199 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 1: Private landowners are inherently gonna protect them if you get

973
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:16,639
someone who's good and knows what they're doing. But most

974
00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:19,360
people are fucking morons, you know, it's just true. I'm

975
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,280
not being mean. Most people are dumb and they don't care.

976
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,559
They're lazy and they're lazy and so they don't give

977
00:50:23,599 --> 00:50:25,719
a fuck. I mean, so many private landowners you meet

978
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,800
don't know what's on their land. That's okay, I'll go

979
00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:29,880
check out your land before you do a survey. Oh,

980
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,519
we're having dog What is she mad about somebody out there?

981
00:50:34,519 --> 00:50:37,519
Oh no, they're just she's her asses getting too close

982
00:50:37,559 --> 00:50:39,920
to her face. I think it's a right we're having

983
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,159
dog drama here. Anyway, So how did we? But how

984
00:50:43,199 --> 00:50:45,000
did we get to this situation? Though?

985
00:50:45,599 --> 00:50:50,039
Speaker 2: That was all part of the annexation treaty when we

986
00:50:50,199 --> 00:50:51,239
became a state.

987
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: And Texas insistent on keeping its own well, well what

988
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:55,760
what what?

989
00:50:56,079 --> 00:50:59,679
Speaker 2: What? The bottom line was we were some ten million.

990
00:50:59,519 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: Or so in debt from the war with Mexico, right,

991
00:51:04,159 --> 00:51:06,239
so we traded off.

992
00:51:07,159 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 2: Like I said before, Texas claimed everything on the left

993
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:18,320
bank on the Rio Grande left bank and then all

994
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,960
the way up into Wyoming, you know, good portion of

995
00:51:21,039 --> 00:51:29,360
Colorado and into Wyoming. We traded that land that was

996
00:51:29,639 --> 00:51:34,480
had Santa Fe on it, for instance, Pueblo, Colorado, Denver.

997
00:51:35,159 --> 00:51:38,559
You know, we traded to our existing borders. Now that's

998
00:51:38,559 --> 00:51:42,599
why they're nice and straight up there in the Panhanton. Yeah, okay,

999
00:51:43,199 --> 00:51:48,119
we traded off those millions of acres. We kept our lands,

1000
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:52,679
no federal lands at all. They had the federal government

1001
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,000
had to come by land from Texas. From Texas to

1002
00:51:56,119 --> 00:52:03,119
put the military basis on. Some people donated it because

1003
00:52:03,199 --> 00:52:06,039
for commercial reasons because now they may be the ones

1004
00:52:06,119 --> 00:52:09,400
to sell beef to the thing because their ranch was

1005
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:16,159
so huge, you know, and so forth. But we traded

1006
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,880
that off, that land off to our present borders for

1007
00:52:20,039 --> 00:52:24,840
the assumption of all of our debts. And then we

1008
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,400
got some cash on top of that. I think I

1009
00:52:27,599 --> 00:52:30,760
think I can look take me a few minutes to

1010
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,119
look through your I think we got like another five

1011
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:37,280
ten million bucks from the United States to give a

1012
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:45,119
sort of a working budget because we had nothing. That

1013
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:49,800
was part of the annexation treaty was that was the

1014
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,719
big trade ten million for all of this. We keep

1015
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,440
our lands, and you give us some cash on top

1016
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,159
after assuming our debts, you give us some cash on top.

1017
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 1: But it's it's yeah, it's the situation of publicland here

1018
00:53:03,559 --> 00:53:05,280
is nuts. But anyway, but all right, well I want

1019
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,519
to I want to move on to plants, because you've

1020
00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:12,039
got a wealth of experience with many of the native

1021
00:53:12,199 --> 00:53:14,639
plants here that a few other people do, and you've

1022
00:53:14,639 --> 00:53:16,599
grown a ship a ton of them. We were talking

1023
00:53:16,599 --> 00:53:19,079
about growing, you know, going to get pinus from OTAs seed,

1024
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,440
all these cool I mean, it could the Edwards Plateau.

1025
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,039
When you start moving west you get into Chihuahua Desert,

1026
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,239
and then at the higher elevations you've got a lot

1027
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,280
of the cool sky island flora too, like the pines

1028
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,480
and the weird oaks and these things that have been

1029
00:53:33,559 --> 00:53:37,320
isolated because they're you know, they've been isolated. There are islands,

1030
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,559
biological islands that have been isolated, you know, in an

1031
00:53:41,599 --> 00:53:43,920
ocean of lowland, like.

1032
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,199
Speaker 2: The great scene out for you where the ocean fills

1033
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:48,400
up and there are no islands.

1034
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: It's all right, right, but but so like with you

1035
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:56,719
were talking about circus, what is a Mexicana Mexicana. Yeah,

1036
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:58,800
where's Thatchro And we tell everybody about that.

1037
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:00,800
Speaker 2: What is it that Terrell County.

1038
00:54:01,679 --> 00:54:04,519
Speaker 1: Now this is a red bud though it's like a

1039
00:54:04,599 --> 00:54:06,480
weird Yeah.

1040
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 2: It's got a smaller leaf. It's it's definitely the leaves

1041
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,400
of her suit. They've got a real gray green look

1042
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,639
to They're forty feet tall.

1043
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: They live long, noh, yeah they can.

1044
00:54:17,079 --> 00:54:21,159
Speaker 2: They get six eight inch even larger trunks on them.

1045
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,119
Live at least on the ones on there's four of

1046
00:54:25,199 --> 00:54:30,800
them on Highway ninety, twenty six miles west of the

1047
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,719
heart of the little town of Sanderson. They're on the

1048
00:54:34,199 --> 00:54:38,559
south side of State Highway ninety. They stick out like

1049
00:54:38,639 --> 00:54:41,159
a sore thum, particularly in the spring when they're blooming.

1050
00:54:43,119 --> 00:54:47,199
They were dug up and placed there in the nineteen

1051
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,800
fifties and they're still there.

1052
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,559
Speaker 1: From where the ranch south of it, I believe. But

1053
00:54:52,639 --> 00:54:56,440
you can get good seat of them, Yeah you can,

1054
00:54:56,599 --> 00:54:57,199
but not much.

1055
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,280
Speaker 2: I had to go out the brukags or so bad

1056
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,039
on them. I would generally go out when they had

1057
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,239
a good after a good bloom and seed set to

1058
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,679
keep the broukade down. I used to go spend you know,

1059
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:12,639
one hundred bucks on orthene with brookids. That's a specialized,

1060
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,199
very large group of little beetles that bore into the

1061
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:19,360
sides of lugumes and other seeds. Oh god, it's a

1062
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,719
huge group. Yeah. That's when you open and you see

1063
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:23,880
the little round holes on the side of the golden

1064
00:55:24,039 --> 00:55:27,360
white tree ugu and the seed is empty. Yeah, yeah,

1065
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:27,920
because that's it.

1066
00:55:28,559 --> 00:55:30,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, black brush seeds.

1067
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are brookides and there's some of the things

1068
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:38,199
they need to get flour. Yeah, very huge group, multiple families.

1069
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:44,400
They affect very very serious economic pests to agriculture. But

1070
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,039
I would have to go out after they were polling it,

1071
00:55:47,079 --> 00:55:49,079
because I don't want to waste a bunch of insects.

1072
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,239
But I would have to go out with one hundred

1073
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:54,960
dollars worth of orthene as much water as I could

1074
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,440
get in five gallon buckets with tops in my truck.

1075
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,239
So where I learned to go to the doughnuts and

1076
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,280
get their four gallon buckets with the tops for a

1077
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:05,440
dollar apiece and fill the back of my truck and

1078
00:56:05,559 --> 00:56:08,679
go out there and pour that orthene mixed up with

1079
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:11,639
water around that just so that when the orchids tried

1080
00:56:11,679 --> 00:56:14,400
to eat them, brukts tried to eat them. They has died.

1081
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,679
Speaker 1: And then I get you know, how would you make

1082
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:19,920
sure you'd get the brookits Tho, where would you put the.

1083
00:56:20,639 --> 00:56:22,800
Speaker 2: It's taken up by the roots, so you pour. Oh,

1084
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:25,840
they came out with the nails.

1085
00:56:26,039 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: But isn't it that poisoning the flowers too?

1086
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,519
Speaker 2: No, that's what I said. You've got to wait till

1087
00:56:30,519 --> 00:56:32,480
the flowers drop before you do it, right.

1088
00:56:32,559 --> 00:56:34,519
Speaker 1: But it's a systemic though, so it's getting Yeah, but.

1089
00:56:34,519 --> 00:56:37,559
Speaker 2: It's only there for it's morphine only the last three weeks.

1090
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:39,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so you got to go out and you

1091
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:40,840
know the chemistry.

1092
00:56:40,519 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 2: Several times and say when do they come out? Right? Now,

1093
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,079
you got the neonicotinoids, which lasts ninety days, and it's

1094
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,760
really easy to go out and just you know.

1095
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: So neo niks aren't super long. Last thing ninety days

1096
00:56:53,159 --> 00:56:55,199
is still a fuck done. But I mean it's not

1097
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:57,000
like it's going to be in the plant forever. It's

1098
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:58,920
obviously being metabolized out or what No.

1099
00:56:59,159 --> 00:57:01,039
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's metic.

1100
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,079
Speaker 1: So if someone's treating cacti for them because they've got scale,

1101
00:57:04,199 --> 00:57:07,360
it'll eventually be metabolized out and it's they'll be harmless

1102
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:09,000
the pollinators after a certain.

1103
00:57:09,119 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, okay, nothing forever. There's no money in making.

1104
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,119
Speaker 1: Last forever, which we're all thinking repidly now.

1105
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 2: And kind and anybody that does chemistry with fluorine deserves

1106
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,199
what they get chemical companies.

1107
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:27,719
Speaker 1: That's fucking insane. The p fast thing. Did you know

1108
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:29,719
about that? I mean, were you aware of that? Know

1109
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:30,239
about that?

1110
00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:31,639
Speaker 2: What's the deal?

1111
00:57:31,679 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: Why'd they put in everything? I don't understand if it's

1112
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:35,880
just for like non stick, there was a lot of

1113
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,000
money in it. Non stick. What are the benefits of

1114
00:57:38,119 --> 00:57:40,199
using it? It's non stick, It's like teflon.

1115
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:45,159
Speaker 2: Fucking well, that's one of the is my understanding. The

1116
00:57:45,239 --> 00:57:50,599
big poisonings from that, or from the fire extinguishers use

1117
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:52,400
as a fire flame.

1118
00:57:52,159 --> 00:57:54,639
Speaker 1: Reaching fucking The ladies used to work in the factories

1119
00:57:54,679 --> 00:57:56,519
would just say, oh, we would sometimes come home with

1120
00:57:56,599 --> 00:57:59,719
the teflon flu. They called it the teflon flu. You're

1121
00:57:59,719 --> 00:58:02,800
getting fucking poisoned with your employer.

1122
00:58:03,679 --> 00:58:06,519
Speaker 2: You know, those are usually applied in chambers. It's not

1123
00:58:06,719 --> 00:58:08,719
like you's like a sprayed.

1124
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 1: On, right, But how did this ship get everywhere? I

1125
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:12,880
don't want to go too far off with this, but

1126
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:14,920
I'm interesting, since I'm talking to a chemist.

1127
00:58:15,039 --> 00:58:18,599
Speaker 2: The bulk of the PFASs that has entered where the

1128
00:58:18,679 --> 00:58:22,320
water table was either from the manufacturer of those base

1129
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:26,840
compounds used in making the pants, but the vast majority

1130
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,280
of it, from my understanding of it, is from its

1131
00:58:30,519 --> 00:58:36,280
use as a fire retarget, mostly like airports. God Jesus Christ, Yeah,

1132
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:39,639
for putting airplane fires out, putting fires out in a

1133
00:58:39,719 --> 00:58:40,519
chemical plant.

1134
00:58:40,679 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: So it's in fire extinguishers for sure.

1135
00:58:43,079 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 2: No, they're yeah, like if you're in the air Force, Yeah,

1136
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,800
you got thirty million goddamn dollar plane, you don't go

1137
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:55,079
spray with water because you're going to describe this stuff

1138
00:58:55,159 --> 00:58:57,320
on it. It puts it out and doesn't damage all

1139
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,239
that electronic circuitry and cause us.

1140
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,639
Speaker 1: Well, why does fluorine last for so long?

1141
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 2: Because fluorine is the most chemically active element. It is

1142
00:59:07,599 --> 00:59:12,800
seven electrons orbiting seven protons and a few neutrons, and

1143
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:17,119
it wants that last electron so bad. The protons are

1144
00:59:17,239 --> 00:59:21,639
so close to filling that last shell in that SP

1145
00:59:22,079 --> 00:59:26,480
six orbital, that last open spot it wants. It's so bad.

1146
00:59:26,679 --> 00:59:29,599
You move down to the next element, chlorine, Well, it's

1147
00:59:29,599 --> 00:59:33,480
still pretty damn reactive right up there with oxygen. But

1148
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,679
it's got a whole nother you know, I don't know

1149
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:42,559
what another twelve you know, electrons to dampen the pull

1150
00:59:42,719 --> 00:59:48,199
from the positive the protons in the core. You know,

1151
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,639
it's and it's much you know, that space is much

1152
00:59:50,679 --> 00:59:53,039
bigger by the way. It's not even every time you

1153
00:59:53,119 --> 00:59:56,400
add a new shell, they're not the same with That's

1154
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:58,880
why when you get up in the heavier metals, the

1155
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:02,599
transition metals, they're all about the same diameter because you

1156
01:00:03,159 --> 01:00:05,400
got your into the d shells and they don't get

1157
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:07,519
all the way filled as you put s's you know

1158
01:00:08,519 --> 01:00:10,639
in the S six so on.

1159
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:14,559
Speaker 1: So fluorines are really it's really reacted.

1160
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's be thankful that in the earth crust

1161
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,159
it is mostly bound up this calcium fluoride and it's

1162
01:00:21,239 --> 01:00:24,599
not a lot of other minerals there with fluorine. But

1163
01:00:25,039 --> 01:00:28,079
tell you we're doing a terrible, terrible thing. And I'm

1164
01:00:28,239 --> 01:00:30,320
glad I get to say this. I hope this reaches

1165
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:33,599
a lot of people. You recycle every piece of aluminum

1166
01:00:33,719 --> 01:00:40,079
you can, because the people that manufacture aluminium will they

1167
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:44,920
use carbon anodes or electrodes and that cry like the

1168
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:48,559
bath of the molten box site with the calcium fluoride

1169
01:00:48,559 --> 01:00:51,840
the fluor spar and because they won't coat those with

1170
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:57,039
platinum or palladium, that carbon is reacting with the fluorine

1171
01:00:57,159 --> 01:01:00,800
and putting carbon hexafluoride into the atmosphere, which is not

1172
01:01:01,199 --> 01:01:07,239
only the most potent greenhouse gas, No, it destroys the

1173
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:12,440
ozone layers like thousands of ozone molecules. A second one

1174
01:01:12,599 --> 01:01:21,320
molecule of carbon hexafluoride does destroys them. In the high atmosphere.

1175
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,960
Oh no, And we were putting eighty tons or so

1176
01:01:25,199 --> 01:01:27,760
a year into the atmosphere in the mid seventies. We're

1177
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,679
probably putting a couple hundred tons in. But there's going

1178
01:01:30,719 --> 01:01:33,480
to come a point soon where it will allow so

1179
01:01:33,679 --> 01:01:36,880
much you the light in to the surface that it's

1180
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,480
going to have an extremely.

1181
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 1: Why is this not regulated at all? And why is

1182
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:42,360
no one raising alarm bells about it?

1183
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 2: There have been alarm bells raised there, and the lobby

1184
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:53,079
is very powerful. They could simply do, like yep, pladium

1185
01:01:53,159 --> 01:01:56,440
or platinum. They could probably just coat the electrodes with it.

1186
01:01:56,559 --> 01:01:57,559
They don't have to do like.

1187
01:01:57,599 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: That, and that's used in the manufacture of aluminum cans.

1188
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. The only way you break it down you

1189
01:02:03,519 --> 01:02:08,800
melt it with the flox the calcium fluoride, and that

1190
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:13,400
carbon from the electrode reacts with the fluorine and what's

1191
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:17,280
this death gas out so potent greenhouse gas and the

1192
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:18,679
ultimate ozone.

1193
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 1: Would be a sin to regulate business. We can't do

1194
01:02:21,079 --> 01:02:23,119
that in Texas the right.

1195
01:02:23,199 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, but it's very varies, you really, it's it

1196
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:29,639
should be a public duty to use his little make

1197
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:30,519
his little new.

1198
01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:32,679
Speaker 1: And where I live, they still throw out a loom

1199
01:02:32,719 --> 01:02:35,320
when them cans. There's no fucking recycling. It's so backwards,

1200
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:39,360
it's it's so shiit for brain, it's crazy, head up

1201
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:39,679
the ass.

1202
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 2: As far as I read that article the Letter to

1203
01:02:42,119 --> 01:02:44,800
Nature back in the late nineties and looked into it,

1204
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:52,199
I was so utterly terrified. Who is a guy that

1205
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:55,760
worked for Reynolds or al co It was in their

1206
01:02:56,199 --> 01:02:59,199
chemistry department, wrote in saying, hey man, this has got

1207
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:01,679
to be addressed by the UN. They've got to have

1208
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:05,159
legislation because another fifty years of this we may make

1209
01:03:05,239 --> 01:03:06,920
life on earth and there's no way to destroy it.

1210
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,400
You can you cannot destroy this compound with heat.

1211
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: Then the O zone disappear in the fucking k T extinction,

1212
01:03:13,039 --> 01:03:13,920
and that's what led to the.

1213
01:03:16,199 --> 01:03:20,199
Speaker 2: I'm sure with all that all that ejecta put it.

1214
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: Maybe it was Permian I forget great, So we've been

1215
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:25,719
here before. It'll be fine. That's what they say about

1216
01:03:25,719 --> 01:03:29,360
climate change. It's happened before watching it happen.

1217
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 2: As I was saying, I saw empty, I saw the

1218
01:03:33,119 --> 01:03:36,639
flourish disappear at two thousand. Then I saw the birds.

1219
01:03:36,679 --> 01:03:38,760
The birds here have changed seven times in the time

1220
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:42,159
I lived here there and now I used to have

1221
01:03:42,239 --> 01:03:44,559
so many birds here. I remember my last wife. She

1222
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:47,119
complained about the birds waking or up every morning. They

1223
01:03:47,159 --> 01:03:49,360
were so Now you wait, wake up in the morning,

1224
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,320
you don't you hear maybe one bird two rs. You

1225
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:54,039
got to go outside and stand around and listen and walk.

1226
01:03:54,199 --> 01:03:56,519
Speaker 1: My habitat has been destroyed round here.

1227
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:00,559
Speaker 2: Or there's nothing left for them to eat. You see

1228
01:04:00,599 --> 01:04:02,920
anything out there with this bird friendly? Now? Yeah? No,

1229
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:05,920
even the hummingbirds. You only see them at feeders.

1230
01:04:06,199 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 1: That's crazy, that's nuts. Yeah, my yard is lit up

1231
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,559
with life. But that's because I've got all natives, and

1232
01:04:11,599 --> 01:04:13,920
I've got it on irrigation too. So I mean, at

1233
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:15,840
this point, I'm like, I use irrigation because I want

1234
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:16,360
to call out.

1235
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 2: I know a lot of the birds I had here

1236
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:18,559
were because.

1237
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 1: And I've got so many things depending on my yard

1238
01:04:21,039 --> 01:04:22,880
now that if I were to turn off that irrigation

1239
01:04:23,039 --> 01:04:25,679
and let it just go, you know, Dorman during a drought,

1240
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:27,280
it would fucking you know.

1241
01:04:28,199 --> 01:04:31,519
Speaker 2: Closing the nursery had a very doletorious effect on the bird.

1242
01:04:31,679 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 1: How long did you run a nursery.

1243
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:37,199
Speaker 2: For nineteen eighty six till what is this twenty two?

1244
01:04:38,079 --> 01:04:41,199
Speaker 1: And you were growing everything you could. It was Madrone nursery.

1245
01:04:41,679 --> 01:04:44,000
That was one thing Texas Madrones.

1246
01:04:44,079 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they won't make it that glo global global warming.

1247
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:51,679
It's too drop, too hot because you've got a couples. Yeah,

1248
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,920
there's a thermal barrier to their to their existence. What

1249
01:04:55,119 --> 01:04:55,239
is it?

1250
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:56,639
Speaker 1: They just don't like it a.

1251
01:04:57,079 --> 01:05:00,719
Speaker 2: Once their roots get above in the mid seventies, Yeah.

1252
01:05:01,679 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 1: And so that limestone insulates their roots to a point.

1253
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 2: Now the high altitude and it's at night, it's it's

1254
01:05:07,559 --> 01:05:10,039
the night temperatures, it seems to be really they can

1255
01:05:10,079 --> 01:05:11,880
take the one hundred and ten during the day, it's

1256
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:13,519
the it's the temperatures.

1257
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:14,519
Speaker 1: Got to go up in elevation.

1258
01:05:15,199 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 2: I know from playing especially with a gentleman from Houston,

1259
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:20,519
a very nice guy that came for a summer or tune.

1260
01:05:20,599 --> 01:05:23,199
Play to them with me that you know, you can

1261
01:05:23,239 --> 01:05:25,639
grow them and get a few up at scraggly one gallons,

1262
01:05:25,719 --> 01:05:28,000
but you'll only get one out of one hundred of

1263
01:05:28,079 --> 01:05:29,679
those to live ten years.

1264
01:05:30,239 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 1: Wow.

1265
01:05:31,239 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 2: But there they're just I mean, when I think of

1266
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:37,440
the thirty five years whatever I've been here and the drones,

1267
01:05:37,519 --> 01:05:40,079
how many have disappeared It used to be around here

1268
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,559
on the hilltops and stuff. I mean, we're down to

1269
01:05:43,599 --> 01:05:45,880
a few percent of what was here just twenty five

1270
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:46,360
years ago.

1271
01:05:47,159 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 1: Is there anyone keeping track of this stuff? Because that's

1272
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:50,400
that's yeah.

1273
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 2: Harry Gilbert out of ut published a paper on the

1274
01:05:53,079 --> 01:05:55,400
insect loss a couple of years ago.

1275
01:05:55,599 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 1: I just think it just sounds like there's so much

1276
01:05:57,800 --> 01:05:59,360
ahead in the sand behavior here.

1277
01:05:59,559 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 2: No, it's not heading the sand. Its eyes on the phone.

1278
01:06:03,119 --> 01:06:04,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, well.

1279
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,639
Speaker 2: Literally, its eyes on the phone. People don't kids don't

1280
01:06:08,679 --> 01:06:09,840
look at the window anymore.

1281
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 1: Well, there's nowhere to go in Texas now too. You

1282
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:15,039
gotta fucking driver where you're trapped in a car, there's

1283
01:06:15,119 --> 01:06:17,239
no public land. That especially doesn't.

1284
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,639
Speaker 2: Real movieens on the back of the seats and your

1285
01:06:19,719 --> 01:06:20,119
kids can.

1286
01:06:20,119 --> 01:06:22,519
Speaker 1: Watcht toast right. But I think that's one of the

1287
01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:25,599
most depressing things about this state is there's I mean,

1288
01:06:25,639 --> 01:06:29,159
there's streets with no sidewalks. There's fucking it's so hard

1289
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:31,400
to get and no one wants to walk on a

1290
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:33,760
sidewalk next to a fucking eight lane road anyway with

1291
01:06:34,119 --> 01:06:34,800
fifty six.

1292
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 2: Half people throw beer bottles at you.

1293
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's no I mean, that's why the public

1294
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:43,079
land thing is really essential to a healthy fucking life,

1295
01:06:43,159 --> 01:06:45,719
being able to go take a fucking walk and enjoy

1296
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:49,280
something beautiful and fucking the way things have been for

1297
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:50,440
millions of years before.

1298
01:06:50,519 --> 01:06:52,480
Speaker 2: You better get a time machine and go talk to

1299
01:06:52,559 --> 01:06:53,480
Steven F. Austin.

1300
01:06:53,639 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 1: Oh well yeah, either or you could go. You could

1301
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:58,360
go to the future too after everything collapses, because this

1302
01:06:58,480 --> 01:06:59,079
is this ship.

1303
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:03,519
Speaker 2: Is that long coming, it's coming, It's coming to your county.

1304
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:06,599
Speaker 1: Everything is fine. I don't know what you're talking about.

1305
01:07:06,719 --> 01:07:07,280
It's fine.

1306
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:07,679
Speaker 2: I know.

1307
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:13,559
Speaker 1: I saw this fucking lovely I don't know who did it.

1308
01:07:13,639 --> 01:07:16,079
Some graffiti arts in San Antonio. They made these weed

1309
01:07:16,159 --> 01:07:19,320
pasted Ted Cruz and like the full leather daddy bear

1310
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:21,599
uniform with the whip and ship, and it was so

1311
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:24,199
fucking perfect. It was so great, man. I was like,

1312
01:07:24,239 --> 01:07:27,400
I wanted to make shirts out of that. But uh, yeah,

1313
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:31,880
there's a there's a lot of celciopaths here in politics. Okay,

1314
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:34,800
Well anyway, so so message, I want to talk about

1315
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:37,119
this whole region from the like the Western Iwards plateau

1316
01:07:37,199 --> 01:07:39,320
of the transition to Chuahwa Desert because there's so many

1317
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,400
cool plants. The Pinus ramota. You said there's circle carpus

1318
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:46,519
to what circle carpus species is that Montanas? Yeah? Okay,

1319
01:07:46,599 --> 01:07:49,840
so Rose family, right, Yeah, which I knew out west,

1320
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:55,599
but I didn't think out here, right. And Pinus ramoto,

1321
01:07:55,679 --> 01:07:57,079
which is opinion pine, which.

1322
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 2: Of course is everybody appears in Koela.

1323
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,159
Speaker 1: So you get Pinus embroides and Pinus ramota. I've seen

1324
01:08:03,199 --> 01:08:03,920
Pinus romota.

1325
01:08:04,039 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 2: Well, you don't only get embroiders when you're really out like.

1326
01:08:06,679 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaker 1: Fort David Davis. No, it's not what's up there by

1327
01:08:10,519 --> 01:08:12,840
McDonald observatories. That's Embroide's or ramota.

1328
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:17,039
Speaker 2: I thought you had to go all the way out

1329
01:08:17,119 --> 01:08:18,960
to like El Paso to pick those up.

1330
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:21,520
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know, I just saw I just just

1331
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:25,439
picking pinions seeds and nearing a McDonald observatory.

1332
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:27,560
Speaker 2: And Davis and then that I think symbroids and edulous

1333
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:31,399
are now the same. Okay, Yeah, I can never understand

1334
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,880
why they were called two species. But I'm not into conifers,

1335
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:36,960
you knows.

1336
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:40,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, but what were so when you were collecting,

1337
01:08:40,039 --> 01:08:41,640
When you're going to collect these seeds, what is it for?

1338
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,479
Is it for a restoration project or just for yourself

1339
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:45,439
or what were going.

1340
01:08:45,399 --> 01:08:47,199
Speaker 2: To grown out? As one gowns to be giveaway on

1341
01:08:47,279 --> 01:08:49,560
these arboriday things. Yeah, it's part of my gig.

1342
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:50,560
Speaker 1: And they'll survive.

1343
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:55,039
Speaker 2: And I've seen I'll never forget I gave some. I

1344
01:08:55,199 --> 01:08:59,000
met this couple in the ninety six ninety seven. I

1345
01:08:59,119 --> 01:09:03,760
gave her too little one gallons, eight inches tall, ten years.

1346
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:06,920
One of those things was over twenty feet tall with

1347
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:10,640
a five inch trunk, making tons opinions. The other one

1348
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:13,800
never did as well. It's it's oh, they're both doing

1349
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:14,640
very very well.

1350
01:09:15,199 --> 01:09:15,359
Speaker 1: You know.

1351
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 2: She's like she lives in u north uh, just northwest

1352
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:23,880
of the heart of downtown San Antonio, right at Kulibra

1353
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,439
in I ten across the street.

1354
01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 1: From that bread baks o grow in downtown San Antonio.

1355
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:34,199
Speaker 2: I mean, they're they look fabulous, she said. You know

1356
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:37,520
the first you know, I can't see who's sold the

1357
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:39,159
house or new in the neighborhood. When I'm out in

1358
01:09:39,199 --> 01:09:41,960
the yard, somebody walking by and go, my god, what pine.

1359
01:09:42,039 --> 01:09:44,000
I don't know you could grow upon here? Those are

1360
01:09:44,119 --> 01:09:47,439
so gorgeous and what they make edible seeds? Oh no here?

1361
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, So many times I'd learned about the plants

1362
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:53,000
in this state. Then I'm like, why is nobody growing?

1363
01:09:53,319 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 2: You know, I tried to get the state in the

1364
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:59,680
state back. Oh. I was going to think early nineties,

1365
01:10:00,359 --> 01:10:04,159
put out these thirty million dollars in loans to develop

1366
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:11,840
a Christmas tree nursery system because we were losing all

1367
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,880
this money, you know, like sixty five million dollars a

1368
01:10:15,039 --> 01:10:18,800
year to Oregon in Washington for these cut dead pines

1369
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,439
that people were, you know, having to put out New

1370
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:26,479
Year's on in the front yards to be collected ground up.

1371
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:30,079
And it's a good idea. But when I went and

1372
01:10:30,159 --> 01:10:35,640
talked to them, I said, look, you need to do

1373
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:39,840
the pinus remote, our native one, which is tolerant of

1374
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:42,880
all different different soils. Is you have to have ons. Yeah,

1375
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:46,880
and you know it can take irrigation and doesn't really

1376
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:49,199
need it, but we'll do a lot better with it.

1377
01:10:50,159 --> 01:10:53,439
You can make an edible fruit, which is really cool.

1378
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:58,960
It's really you know, triangular, you know, conical in shape.

1379
01:10:59,039 --> 01:11:01,159
Us no pruning any of this scene in and it's

1380
01:11:01,279 --> 01:11:05,039
native and we brought it to the edge of extinction.

1381
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:07,720
You know, we owe it to this plant to spread

1382
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:09,960
it back because that was a dominant plan here during

1383
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:12,239
the ice age in the Hill country. Hill Country was

1384
01:11:12,319 --> 01:11:18,399
dominant pinion Jennifer in the ice age ice ages. So

1385
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:24,079
you know, instead they put it all into afghampies, which

1386
01:11:24,399 --> 01:11:29,800
Jesus Christ they lost. I remember, like four years later,

1387
01:11:30,039 --> 01:11:33,000
I got a call from them, the people in parts

1388
01:11:33,039 --> 01:11:35,319
of my life. They said, hey, we wanted to let

1389
01:11:35,399 --> 01:11:40,520
you know that, Wow, you were right, and we've seized

1390
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:45,520
like four of these people that borrowed like four million bucks,

1391
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:52,239
you know, six million bucks, and we're having an auction

1392
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:55,199
and want to let you know that there'd be these

1393
01:11:55,279 --> 01:11:59,159
greenhouses and all this sort of stuff. And I said, whoa, whoa, wait,

1394
01:12:00,319 --> 01:12:04,479
nobody is gonna buy a greenhouse. This costs more to

1395
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:09,279
take it down then it does to buy a new

1396
01:12:09,319 --> 01:12:13,079
one and have it dropped off. And the plastic and

1397
01:12:13,359 --> 01:12:15,479
it never makes it. You're gonna have to buy new,

1398
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:21,199
especially the flat hard plastic. The tarps, Yeah, if you're

1399
01:12:21,199 --> 01:12:22,800
careful and roll them up, you can put them out.

1400
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:24,920
I'd do it every year for I'd buy one year

1401
01:12:25,039 --> 01:12:26,880
tarp and get eight years out of it because I'd

1402
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:28,680
only have it up for three four months and was

1403
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:30,720
very careful with it. Put it in the shade with

1404
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:33,800
a oh pay tarp over it in the summer. But

1405
01:12:35,039 --> 01:12:38,479
I remember they were doing this up at Waco, one

1406
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:40,039
of the big ways, the biggest one. I think they

1407
01:12:40,079 --> 01:12:43,600
had seven million. They loaned and they called me back

1408
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:45,880
and they were like, un not only did like you said,

1409
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:49,840
nobody came, we lost, We got nothing back. The only

1410
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:53,359
thing we got any money back was on like the

1411
01:12:53,920 --> 01:13:02,840
skidloader Bobcats. Yeah, yeah, from from the loan default on

1412
01:13:03,039 --> 01:13:05,359
it and then already proved the single Christmas tree is

1413
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:06,199
thirty million.

1414
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:08,399
Speaker 1: Bucks thrown away growing these things.

1415
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:11,479
Speaker 2: No, No, I did have my neighbor. Only good that

1416
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:13,680
ever came out of it was I ran the date

1417
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:19,039
again and my neighbor's daughter got the second place science

1418
01:13:19,079 --> 01:13:21,119
Fair project in the State award, which was like a

1419
01:13:21,199 --> 01:13:24,479
two thousand dollars. Uh. Her science Fair project was the

1420
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:27,840
use of this the pinion pine is as a as.

1421
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:29,680
Speaker 1: A native tomorrow. Yeah.

1422
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:30,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you'll see it.

1423
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:34,159
Speaker 1: You'll like Camp Wood, you said, Yeah, that's crazy.

1424
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:38,359
Speaker 2: What is where the camels were originally from? Indianola?

1425
01:13:39,359 --> 01:13:41,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was the story behind that?

1426
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:44,560
Speaker 2: Well, when Jeff Davis was before the Civil War, was

1427
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:47,239
head of the War Department, and we were tired of

1428
01:13:47,359 --> 01:13:51,000
the uh you know, oh, so he was out here.

1429
01:13:51,079 --> 01:13:53,399
Speaker 1: That wasn't just some weird racist dog whistle name in

1430
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:55,760
a fucking county after the guy. He was actually out here.

1431
01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 2: No, he was Secretary of Defense.

1432
01:13:57,840 --> 01:13:58,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, all right.

1433
01:13:59,079 --> 01:14:02,319
Speaker 2: He personally approve of the project of taking these I

1434
01:14:02,399 --> 01:14:05,960
think six Arab men and both types of camels here,

1435
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:10,039
landing them at Indianola and taking them out through camp

1436
01:14:10,239 --> 01:14:13,479
across Texas and taking them out seeing how long they

1437
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:15,720
could go without water, what they could eat, how much

1438
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:18,760
they could carry. It's great. They worked so well. I

1439
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:21,279
mean there were camels for years after they abandoned the

1440
01:14:21,319 --> 01:14:24,000
project and let them go in West Texas. Yeah, they

1441
01:14:24,119 --> 01:14:26,840
went all over West Texas into New Mexico. Wow.

1442
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:27,880
Speaker 1: What happened to them.

1443
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:32,159
Speaker 2: Honey down, grab for circuses and ship like that. Yeah,

1444
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:34,680
there's money in them humps.

1445
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:40,239
Speaker 1: So what are some of your other other notable plants

1446
01:14:40,279 --> 01:14:44,239
that need more attention in this area, like Edwards plateau.

1447
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:47,159
Everything needs attention, I mean super rare ones that are

1448
01:14:47,239 --> 01:14:48,159
just why the fuck is this not?

1449
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:51,640
Speaker 2: I mean, why don't focus on the super rare ones

1450
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:53,800
because they're not supporting much in the way of it.

1451
01:14:54,159 --> 01:14:56,800
Part of I think, and said doctor Gilbert agreed with

1452
01:14:56,920 --> 01:15:01,319
me that part of this giant, massive, very quick extinction

1453
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:04,399
of our insects down to a few percent of what

1454
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:07,119
they were just six seven years ago, it's because of

1455
01:15:07,159 --> 01:15:10,319
the loss of all of our wildflowers that all these

1456
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:14,600
penstemens and wine cups and all these everything else. I mean,

1457
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:17,880
for every maximilian sunflower you see now, there used to

1458
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:20,000
be fifty or one hundred of them. There used to

1459
01:15:20,039 --> 01:15:22,119
be a feet tall instead of a little three foot

1460
01:15:22,119 --> 01:15:23,079
tall scragg.

1461
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 1: And the cause is just habitat loss and a lot

1462
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:28,239
of brain and a fucking lawn too. There's a lot

1463
01:15:28,319 --> 01:15:29,840
of fuck Pexans love their lawns.

1464
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 2: Well, we dropped the water table that's evaporated, and that

1465
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:35,159
causes all sorts of things.

1466
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:38,119
Speaker 1: From pissing just pissing water away on a lawn.

1467
01:15:38,239 --> 01:15:39,279
Speaker 2: Oh, that's grom more cotton.

1468
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:43,199
Speaker 1: It's fucking in the cotton toil. Yeah, but I mean

1469
01:15:43,239 --> 01:15:45,399
at least the condon of there's a practical use they're

1470
01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:47,640
using every with a lawn. You're not doing anything, there's

1471
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:50,479
no what the fuck. It's just for looks, just because

1472
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:51,640
your neighbor has thee You're.

1473
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:56,119
Speaker 2: Paying people who are immigrants to cut them, and then

1474
01:15:56,199 --> 01:16:00,159
think of all of the chemical pollution you're causing the

1475
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,039
maintenance of them from I mean, I'm terrified that they

1476
01:16:03,199 --> 01:16:06,119
sell the pre emergence over the counter.

1477
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:08,800
Speaker 1: What are those the pre emergent orbsides?

1478
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:10,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, what is that?

1479
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:11,239
Speaker 1: Exactly?

1480
01:16:12,039 --> 01:16:16,520
Speaker 2: Diethel tell you emits. They inhibit the formation of the

1481
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:20,039
spindle protein that pulls the two sets of chromosomes apart

1482
01:16:20,159 --> 01:16:23,640
during mitosis. You don't think that's carcinogenic. You know what

1483
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,199
the definition of cancer is, by the way, to sell

1484
01:16:26,319 --> 01:16:29,960
an abnormal number of chromosomes. So what happens when you

1485
01:16:30,159 --> 01:16:34,600
screw up the protein the rope that pulls the chromosomes apart.

1486
01:16:35,159 --> 01:16:37,279
Speaker 1: And they're using this We've.

1487
01:16:37,159 --> 01:16:39,720
Speaker 2: Been using it for thirty years in the nursery industry

1488
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:43,560
now throwing it on your lawn because when a seed germinates,

1489
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:47,119
you have rapid cell division, it kills them. Jesus, But

1490
01:16:47,279 --> 01:16:51,079
you ask yourself, what happens is the concentration drops to

1491
01:16:51,399 --> 01:16:57,039
where it's not one hundred percent lethal? Now you just

1492
01:16:57,399 --> 01:17:01,520
rationally thinking you would start to be generating cells with

1493
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:06,880
abnormal numbers of chromosomes. Oh god, yeah, and you let

1494
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:08,880
your kids and your dogs run around in that that

1495
01:17:09,079 --> 01:17:10,119
enters are drinking water.

1496
01:17:10,319 --> 01:17:12,159
Speaker 1: What is the compound again? What is the name di

1497
01:17:12,359 --> 01:17:17,319
ethyl tall you emids Jesus Christ, I'm sure you could

1498
01:17:17,319 --> 01:17:20,279
go down a home deepont and get it right now. Huh, absolutely, Yeah.

1499
01:17:20,479 --> 01:17:22,239
Speaker 2: A new class was brought out a few years ago.

1500
01:17:22,239 --> 01:17:23,920
I haven't been able to find out how it works.

1501
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:28,319
Speaker 1: Tall you amids tall you amids amis.

1502
01:17:28,199 --> 01:17:32,079
Speaker 2: A m I d E s die ethyl d I

1503
01:17:32,359 --> 01:17:38,000
E t h y l tall t O l u

1504
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:40,520
A m I d E.

1505
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:42,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jesus Christ.

1506
01:17:42,199 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 2: I got real good at doing this for customers, spelling things. Yeah, yeah,

1507
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:51,359
it's pretty crazy. They're common granulars, or you can buy

1508
01:17:51,439 --> 01:17:56,119
liquid forms, but uh, the granulers spread them out on

1509
01:17:56,199 --> 01:17:59,000
top of your pots or on your lawn and water

1510
01:17:59,119 --> 01:18:03,960
hit some deaconses the granular the stuffs are basically very

1511
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:09,159
viscous liquids vapor pressure.

1512
01:18:09,199 --> 01:18:09,760
Speaker 1: It doesn't hurt.

1513
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:13,239
Speaker 2: They vaporize and the vapor seeps into the soil, so

1514
01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:15,600
anything in the top centimeter, And.

1515
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:17,880
Speaker 1: It doesn't hurt plants that are already growing. It just

1516
01:18:18,079 --> 01:18:19,920
prevents the new seeds from Germany.

1517
01:18:20,159 --> 01:18:22,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, don't ever use it on transplants because root

1518
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:25,680
cap is growing quickly. Right, Yeah, I'll destroy the root system.

1519
01:18:26,079 --> 01:18:29,319
But yeah, if you're already present in the soil and working,

1520
01:18:29,399 --> 01:18:34,560
you're fine as yourselves last quite a while in plants.

1521
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:38,880
God knows what it does to people, but I'm sure

1522
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:39,920
the EPA would.

1523
01:18:40,079 --> 01:18:44,479
Speaker 1: And you know, regulously, I think like the airbnbs State

1524
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:47,840
and last night in the suburbs and this beautiful suburban community,

1525
01:18:48,039 --> 01:18:50,680
beautiful as I wretch and puke in my own mouth.

1526
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:53,680
But I just I look at that and I'm just

1527
01:18:54,119 --> 01:18:56,960
what the fuck, Like this is this whole this whole system,

1528
01:18:57,039 --> 01:18:59,920
this whole value system is just poisoned from them.

1529
01:19:00,079 --> 01:19:07,000
Speaker 2: Toposness. Anything that's a carbon containing molecule, if it exhibits

1530
01:19:07,239 --> 01:19:11,640
very vivid, bright color, that's your first morning. It's a carcinogen.

1531
01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:15,880
Why is that because of the electron race track, the

1532
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:21,680
resonance of the electrons in a aromatic ring system. Somebody

1533
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:24,680
gave me a bottle of that one of the most

1534
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:29,680
popular DIETHYLLL tallio amid type pre emergent. It's the only

1535
01:19:30,039 --> 01:19:34,960
I mean, it's a brilliant fluorescent orange and sunlight, just

1536
01:19:35,319 --> 01:19:39,680
staggering color. See, the only thing I've seen that will

1537
01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:44,319
soak into polypropylene and stick for years.

1538
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:46,720
Speaker 1: Uh.

1539
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:49,159
Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm going to do with that

1540
01:19:49,279 --> 01:19:50,199
bottle of it when.

1541
01:19:50,079 --> 01:19:50,640
Speaker 1: I move here.

1542
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,239
Speaker 2: You know, maybe they'll take it at one of these chemical.

1543
01:19:54,039 --> 01:19:55,880
Speaker 1: Why did they give it to them? Because they did.

1544
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:57,840
Speaker 2: We're scared to use it, and I told them how

1545
01:19:57,920 --> 01:20:01,359
it worked, so I just can't throw it in the

1546
01:20:01,439 --> 01:20:02,840
trash now that you've told me this.

1547
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:06,479
Speaker 1: It's just nuts that none of this stuff is regulated.

1548
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:10,159
I mean dub regulated. It's regulated, right, but I mean

1549
01:20:10,199 --> 01:20:11,039
it should be illegal.

1550
01:20:11,680 --> 01:20:14,920
Speaker 2: It should be well, no reason, there's already so so

1551
01:20:15,039 --> 01:20:19,760
much tolerance to it. Uh, tolerance developed pretty quickly. And uh,

1552
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:23,159
and that a lot of weeds it didn't control well

1553
01:20:23,159 --> 01:20:25,000
at all. It did save a lot of labor the

1554
01:20:25,079 --> 01:20:28,000
first few years there's still a lot of but you know,

1555
01:20:28,199 --> 01:20:30,880
once again, people just you know, put out ten times.

1556
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:32,720
Speaker 1: So weeds don't grow in your grass.

1557
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:36,920
Speaker 2: Well, in the nursery it was first, but now it's

1558
01:20:37,079 --> 01:20:39,800
like when it went over the counter to people for

1559
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:41,880
their lawns and stuff. I thought that was just one

1560
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:44,000
of the craziest things I've seen.

1561
01:20:44,079 --> 01:20:47,159
Speaker 1: There's a chemical that's a potent carcinogen that's found in

1562
01:20:47,479 --> 01:20:50,960
almost all oats unless they're organic, that's administered to them

1563
01:20:51,039 --> 01:20:53,199
to get them to grow straight so they're easier to harvest.

1564
01:20:53,279 --> 01:20:55,960
I guess I just I read an article on news

1565
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:59,079
scientists and three months ago and it came it was

1566
01:20:59,199 --> 01:21:03,520
it only started mass used after twenty eighteen, after Trump deregulated.

1567
01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 2: Good because I stopped eating.

1568
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:08,359
Speaker 1: Just get organic.

1569
01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:12,119
Speaker 2: Okay, well, we'll get me get yours from Scotland.

1570
01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:14,680
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Wait, let's talk about some more plant

1571
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:16,159
species though, because I got someone who like.

1572
01:21:17,439 --> 01:21:21,439
Speaker 2: I mean, well, there's a lot more Kotinas in the

1573
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:23,520
Hill Country after the Blanco flood.

1574
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:28,640
Speaker 1: All on private property or where of course, But rivers

1575
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:31,199
are your rivers are supposed to be public?

1576
01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:34,640
Speaker 2: No in Texas, No, not the ones in the Hill Country. No,

1577
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:37,039
you better read your treaty of bloody. I thought, I

1578
01:21:37,199 --> 01:21:40,800
thought this was no This stuff the Seven Rivers treated

1579
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:44,800
in the Guadalupe Hildalgo treaty is under Spanish law, not

1580
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:48,520
English water law. And in Spanish law you own the

1581
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:51,399
bottom of the river. You don't own the water in it,

1582
01:21:52,399 --> 01:21:54,760
but you on the bottom of the river. So if

1583
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:57,079
you're you can go down that river in a kayak.

1584
01:21:57,399 --> 01:22:01,720
But the second you brush a tree branch, or your

1585
01:22:02,119 --> 01:22:07,119
bottom of your canoe or your paddle hits the Iraq,

1586
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:09,319
you are guilty of trespass.

1587
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:15,199
Speaker 1: That's the religion here. The fucking trespassing is like a

1588
01:22:15,319 --> 01:22:16,159
literal religion.

1589
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:18,199
Speaker 2: And it's a shame of the change in the law

1590
01:22:18,279 --> 01:22:21,680
that even I mean, we had ten years or so ago.

1591
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:24,119
A guy down on the Guadalupe Ba got very angry

1592
01:22:24,159 --> 01:22:28,680
at some people who were canoeing and had just pulled

1593
01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:32,960
up and were sitting down in lawn chairs. And the

1594
01:22:33,039 --> 01:22:34,880
old man told him, you know, to get the hell out,

1595
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:38,439
and they basically told him to fuck off that because

1596
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:44,279
there is a curlage of the floodplain. This is still

1597
01:22:45,159 --> 01:22:49,119
is very really unsettled in law and in actual use.

1598
01:22:50,159 --> 01:22:56,840
But he an argument ensued the guy went and got

1599
01:22:56,920 --> 01:23:00,079
his shotgun and ended up killing one of them. You

1600
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:03,520
get I think, you know, twelve years or something, a

1601
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:04,720
seventy year old man.

1602
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:07,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think anytime though, anytime you

1603
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:09,960
give a human being and you tell him this is

1604
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:13,880
that we're territorial monkeys, right, And this happens all the time.

1605
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:16,079
Like I'll be walking on a thoroughfare next.

1606
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:18,840
Speaker 2: To somebody's property. What is forbidden you must have? Right? Well?

1607
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:21,680
Speaker 1: What they just get paranoid this And that's the thing

1608
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:23,680
that's real in Texas too, is this constant era of

1609
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:25,920
paranoid and suspicion about are you on my land? If

1610
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:28,319
I'm walking next to someone's land not touching it, I

1611
01:23:28,399 --> 01:23:30,239
always get the landowner coming out. I just want to see,

1612
01:23:30,279 --> 01:23:32,359
you know. And I can't say I blame them. I mean,

1613
01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:34,680
if I we have one hundred and forty five acres

1614
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:38,560
of thorn scrub habitat in South Texas that we're preserving,

1615
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:40,479
but I was walking around there and saw someone on

1616
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:42,600
I want to know what they're doing too, you know.

1617
01:23:43,239 --> 01:23:45,640
But it's just it's this constant thing. I mean, you

1618
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:47,199
don't deal with it, and everything is.

1619
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:51,760
Speaker 2: I learned to use that from you know, that was

1620
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:53,880
one of the few things I feel fortunate. I was

1621
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:56,279
basically brought up, as I said, in a cocktail party,

1622
01:23:56,600 --> 01:24:00,960
where I learned to engage strangers win their trust. And

1623
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:03,560
that's how I've gone on more land. That I've wanted

1624
01:24:03,640 --> 01:24:05,359
to do was doing exactly. Said to just part my

1625
01:24:05,399 --> 01:24:07,640
truck and walk along and get up by their gate,

1626
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:10,880
and sure enough they come. And there's only been a

1627
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:13,439
few times that it was that the owner wasn't there.

1628
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:15,560
It was the manager and he was like, I'm in

1629
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:18,279
there on vacation in France. I mean I could call

1630
01:24:18,399 --> 01:24:20,560
them on their iridium phone, but they really.

1631
01:24:20,439 --> 01:24:23,119
Speaker 1: See you said you got stopped. You were trying to

1632
01:24:23,159 --> 01:24:26,359
collect cursus, Yeah, the Mexican. Yeah, what what happened there?

1633
01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:27,000
Where was that?

1634
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:31,359
Speaker 2: North of that was in Terrell County about fifteen ten

1635
01:24:31,359 --> 01:24:34,720
to fifteen miles north of Sanderson on the road to

1636
01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:37,960
Fort Stockton, And.

1637
01:24:38,039 --> 01:24:40,319
Speaker 1: So what happened? You were out there collecting seed? How'd

1638
01:24:40,359 --> 01:24:42,239
you get on the land? I mean, did you parked

1639
01:24:42,279 --> 01:24:43,920
and went through the fence? But did you know someone

1640
01:24:43,960 --> 01:24:46,399
that owned You're just like now, the UFAs.

1641
01:24:46,119 --> 01:24:48,039
Speaker 2: Driver had seen that was a plant head and had

1642
01:24:48,079 --> 01:24:52,640
seen them flowering in the ravine and told Michael that, hey,

1643
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:56,079
go up, and so we drove up there they are, yeah,

1644
01:24:56,199 --> 01:24:59,039
and so my partner went on one side. I went

1645
01:24:59,079 --> 01:25:00,800
on the other. Uh.

1646
01:25:01,039 --> 01:25:03,319
Speaker 1: And what happened? And then the guy, the landowner came

1647
01:25:03,359 --> 01:25:04,039
out and come and.

1648
01:25:04,159 --> 01:25:07,800
Speaker 2: With his neighbor came out with their shotguns and uh

1649
01:25:09,319 --> 01:25:13,399
uh german shepherd on a leash and threatened us.

1650
01:25:14,279 --> 01:25:16,399
Speaker 1: And could you settle the guy down after a few

1651
01:25:16,439 --> 01:25:18,079
minutes or was he all worked up or what?

1652
01:25:18,359 --> 01:25:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was all worked up. But we were just

1653
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:24,279
very obliging. And I kept saying, please call the police.

1654
01:25:24,399 --> 01:25:27,880
But as I said, sir, I'm just trying to be

1655
01:25:29,159 --> 01:25:32,239
really nice about this. I said, you can search me,

1656
01:25:32,399 --> 01:25:35,199
you can search my car, you can look where. And

1657
01:25:35,319 --> 01:25:38,680
I said, you don't. You don't own your property in Texas.

1658
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:40,439
I have a right I've observed.

1659
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:42,520
Speaker 1: So this is gone.

1660
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:45,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, so when the when the sheriff's deputy gets here,

1661
01:25:45,359 --> 01:25:46,680
that you're the one that's gonna be.

1662
01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:49,199
Speaker 1: So this is going to confuse people. You don't own

1663
01:25:49,239 --> 01:25:51,680
your property in Texas here, So the implication is it's

1664
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:54,920
on lease, like you're technically leasing it from.

1665
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:57,199
Speaker 2: No, you have a contract with your county for the

1666
01:25:57,279 --> 01:26:00,880
payment of your taxes. In these services will be provided

1667
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:04,199
to you for the legal use of your enjoyment of

1668
01:26:04,319 --> 01:26:07,000
your of the property within the meats and bounds of

1669
01:26:07,039 --> 01:26:07,399
your land.

1670
01:26:07,479 --> 01:26:10,520
Speaker 1: But then your your children can inherit it from you,

1671
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:13,239
though you can, they don't.

1672
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:18,760
Speaker 2: They don't inherit the land. They inherit the boundaries to

1673
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:24,199
do legally recreate and you know, make money or graze whatever.

1674
01:26:24,359 --> 01:26:26,119
As long as it's legal, you get to do it

1675
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:29,000
on your land. And that's your deal with your county

1676
01:26:29,279 --> 01:26:31,800
when you so called by land in Texas.

1677
01:26:31,479 --> 01:26:33,800
Speaker 1: And you can find this in your deed or a

1678
01:26:34,199 --> 01:26:35,399
deed of title or no, you.

1679
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:40,079
Speaker 2: Find it in your Texas law statues. So everybody out there,

1680
01:26:40,079 --> 01:26:43,239
I don't know what volume it is in Vernon's Texas

1681
01:26:43,359 --> 01:26:48,560
codes annotating VERD I have. I was when you went

1682
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:50,399
out for a few minutes. I opened this and I

1683
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:52,720
was just like, oh, I should just I'm going to

1684
01:26:53,079 --> 01:26:55,239
loan this to you, and you're going to have so

1685
01:26:55,399 --> 01:26:58,039
much fun with that. You just give it back to Michael.

1686
01:26:58,119 --> 01:27:01,840
Now you put that in your bathroom. Much total you're

1687
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:04,680
gonna spend so no it is, you will just.

1688
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:07,399
Speaker 1: Be pounding of animals by sheriff were constable.

1689
01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 2: Okay, so what happened on this I got to shoot

1690
01:27:10,039 --> 01:27:11,239
my neighbor's cows.

1691
01:27:11,039 --> 01:27:15,720
Speaker 1: Okay, because his cows were coming onto your property.

1692
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:17,960
Speaker 2: This eight hundred and sixty acres next to me. The

1693
01:27:18,239 --> 01:27:19,960
lease ran out on it, and a new guy came

1694
01:27:20,039 --> 01:27:22,760
and leased it. He put longhorns out there. He went

1695
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:25,119
through that fence just.

1696
01:27:25,159 --> 01:27:27,439
Speaker 1: As you said that one forty three died zero three

1697
01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:29,359
three injury to trespassing animal.

1698
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:34,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I called my sheriff office the three times

1699
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:35,439
they came out.

1700
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:38,000
Speaker 1: Hey, oh no, they're opening that door.

1701
01:27:38,079 --> 01:27:38,199
Speaker 2: Lough.

1702
01:27:38,239 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 1: That's good. We got to get some America. You cracked

1703
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:43,920
that door open a little bit more so did you

1704
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:45,199
end up shooting his cows or what?

1705
01:27:45,399 --> 01:27:48,439
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah. It was so funny because the DPS officer,

1706
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:51,760
it was like he was like a real a lieutenant. Okay,

1707
01:27:52,439 --> 01:27:57,239
they're gonna be good archie girls. Oh. He said, please, Dan,

1708
01:27:57,359 --> 01:28:02,039
when you do this, please, I beg you. I've got

1709
01:28:02,159 --> 01:28:05,199
to see this. I've gotten to know sky. I just

1710
01:28:05,319 --> 01:28:08,680
wasn't fence. Yes, And I went through the legal process

1711
01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:11,680
to where after the third time, the fourth time, the

1712
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:14,960
animals were my property. Now to me to do with

1713
01:28:15,119 --> 01:28:17,880
as I please. So I took one of the many

1714
01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:20,560
deer carcasses I had and experimented and found out that

1715
01:28:20,760 --> 01:28:25,359
number eight shot, if it were lead, would go through.

1716
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:28,159
But lead shot, you can shoot an animal, You can

1717
01:28:28,199 --> 01:28:30,800
carry lead bullet for life with no da damage to you.

1718
01:28:31,319 --> 01:28:33,880
But steal one piece of iron in your body and

1719
01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:37,439
you're dead. That's why bacteria invade your body. By the way,

1720
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:40,680
that's what an infection is. It's bacteria coming for iron.

1721
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:45,119
That's what they want from you is iron free iron,

1722
01:28:45,359 --> 01:28:48,960
solubilized iron, not locked up as an insoluble oxide in

1723
01:28:49,159 --> 01:28:54,680
rock or as a sulfide in pyrite. So but number

1724
01:28:54,880 --> 01:29:01,359
six steel shot went right through the pelt and went

1725
01:29:01,399 --> 01:29:05,119
in about a half a centimeter five millimeters so, and

1726
01:29:05,239 --> 01:29:07,439
it was very hard to find steel shot back.

1727
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:09,640
Speaker 1: Then this is getting gruesome, man, This is like a

1728
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:11,399
fucking Cormick McCarthy novel.

1729
01:29:11,479 --> 01:29:14,680
Speaker 2: So, okay, So I was racing home in my Mustang

1730
01:29:14,760 --> 01:29:18,359
at eighty five and I passed a sheriff's step and

1731
01:29:18,439 --> 01:29:21,039
I thought, oh shit, I'm finally going to get a

1732
01:29:21,119 --> 01:29:22,800
ticket on this run. You know, I've never been ticket

1733
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:27,560
in on this road. Okay, And as I pulled in

1734
01:29:27,680 --> 01:29:30,840
the driveway. There were already two cop cars there.

1735
01:29:32,239 --> 01:29:33,960
Speaker 1: After you. Did you shoot this guy's camera one?

1736
01:29:34,039 --> 01:29:36,199
Speaker 2: Oh, no, this is before him. Yeah, because one of

1737
01:29:36,239 --> 01:29:39,159
the neighbors had already called it in, and everybody wanted

1738
01:29:39,239 --> 01:29:41,359
in law enforcement, wanted to see what was going to

1739
01:29:41,399 --> 01:29:42,359
happen when I did this.

1740
01:29:43,359 --> 01:29:45,680
Speaker 1: So I went in and you told the cops you

1741
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:46,560
were going to shoot this student.

1742
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 2: I had eight DPS troopers, like twelve Sheriff's deputies and

1743
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:51,920
a couple of San Marcos cops all standing on that

1744
01:29:51,960 --> 01:29:52,760
front porch of mine.

1745
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:54,079
Speaker 1: And you told the guy you were going to shoot

1746
01:29:54,079 --> 01:29:54,760
his com Yeah.

1747
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:57,279
Speaker 2: Oh, and I did. And I'll never forget the look

1748
01:29:57,319 --> 01:30:00,479
on their faces when I popped off too rounds out

1749
01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:04,199
of my old twenty gage into that I didn't had

1750
01:30:04,399 --> 01:30:10,840
no idea a longhorn could run that fast. It was incredible.

1751
01:30:12,039 --> 01:30:16,640
And then the the I think he was a captain

1752
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:23,359
in the DPS, he started laughing so hard he couldn't

1753
01:30:23,359 --> 01:30:25,960
breathe he was, and then when he finally was able

1754
01:30:26,039 --> 01:30:28,640
to catch his breath, he was like, oh damn, so

1755
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:33,039
what a nice touch, And that honey said the ranch

1756
01:30:33,199 --> 01:30:36,039
was back to the southeast. I sent him off to

1757
01:30:36,119 --> 01:30:36,840
the northwest.

1758
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:41,439
Speaker 1: So what does landowner though, Well, he paid over.

1759
01:30:41,359 --> 01:30:45,359
Speaker 2: Eighteen hundred dollars to get these pieces of steel taken

1760
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:47,920
out of these animals that were only worth a couple

1761
01:30:48,039 --> 01:30:51,399
hundred bucks apiece, and now had we're worth about fifty

1762
01:30:51,439 --> 01:30:54,000
bucks apiece. Because he was you could only really get

1763
01:30:54,039 --> 01:30:56,680
money for the pelts off of them. The meat so stringy,

1764
01:30:59,439 --> 01:31:04,199
and he got so many tickets because I drove them.

1765
01:31:04,239 --> 01:31:09,079
I might pellets. Drove them eight miles down the road,

1766
01:31:09,239 --> 01:31:12,640
Oh wow, and there were fortunately there were no collisions

1767
01:31:12,720 --> 01:31:20,439
with cars. No. It took thirty ille aliens being employed

1768
01:31:20,479 --> 01:31:23,720
as ranch hands. Two. It took them three days to

1769
01:31:23,880 --> 01:31:26,359
round them all up and get them back on the property.

1770
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:29,920
And then the next day there were thirty five to

1771
01:31:29,960 --> 01:31:32,800
fifty people out there fixing that damn fence, so they

1772
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:33,840
never got out again.

1773
01:31:34,560 --> 01:31:36,800
Speaker 1: You say, this dude is probably so he was hiring.

1774
01:31:36,960 --> 01:31:37,359
That's something.

1775
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:38,920
Speaker 2: He came over and apologize.

1776
01:31:39,079 --> 01:31:39,720
Speaker 1: I said, you did.

1777
01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:42,720
Speaker 2: He was a drugstore cowboy from Houston, a thirty two,

1778
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:46,479
from a really rich family. He said, well, you did

1779
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:49,840
teach me a lesson. I will admit I'm not angry.

1780
01:31:50,199 --> 01:31:54,199
I should have. It's clearly obvious to me that I

1781
01:31:54,359 --> 01:31:57,359
should have fixed the fence, and I'm glad nobody got hurt.

1782
01:31:57,680 --> 01:32:00,199
Speaker 1: Okay, well, okay, but bringing it back to this, uh,

1783
01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:04,920
this interaction with the rancher whose land you were trespassing

1784
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:07,079
on when you were collecting Mexican red wed seed, what

1785
01:32:07,319 --> 01:32:08,359
ended up happening in there?

1786
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:13,520
Speaker 2: I did? The cherished deputy said, I'd broken no laws.

1787
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:17,640
I was free to go. But did I? I was

1788
01:32:17,720 --> 01:32:21,479
not trespassing. I had observed curtilage, so I was not trusted.

1789
01:32:21,560 --> 01:32:22,760
I was not doing anything illegal.

1790
01:32:23,159 --> 01:32:26,760
Speaker 1: You know, on somebody's lands, certain distance, certain distance.

1791
01:32:26,479 --> 01:32:29,880
Speaker 2: Away from any building that could be deemed habitable by

1792
01:32:29,880 --> 01:32:33,720
a human being, and then that's like three hundred and

1793
01:32:33,720 --> 01:32:37,399
fifty feet or something. Oh, then there's the other sort

1794
01:32:37,399 --> 01:32:40,760
of any structure you're supposed to stay that looks like

1795
01:32:40,840 --> 01:32:42,920
it could be used as anything like a chicken Cooper,

1796
01:32:43,039 --> 01:32:46,560
pigsty anything like that, you got to stay like three

1797
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:48,960
hundred and fifty feet away. So it's like six six

1798
01:32:49,119 --> 01:32:53,399
fifty for a habitable three fifty for any sort of Would.

1799
01:32:53,199 --> 01:32:55,760
Speaker 1: You tell the cop that that Texas law allows for that?

1800
01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:58,840
Speaker 2: Oh he knew it. No, he knew it. You can go.

1801
01:32:59,079 --> 01:33:00,920
Speaker 1: You can go on someone land as long as you

1802
01:33:01,000 --> 01:33:02,439
stayed and you.

1803
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:06,600
Speaker 2: Don't, you cannot commit a take, and you can't damage.

1804
01:33:06,239 --> 01:33:08,840
Speaker 1: The fence, meaning that could be a you can't take

1805
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:10,000
an arrowhead.

1806
01:33:10,279 --> 01:33:12,640
Speaker 2: You can't dig a plant up, you can't cut a christmast.

1807
01:33:12,840 --> 01:33:14,800
Speaker 1: What about seed that.

1808
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:18,239
Speaker 2: My lawyer and I and then I talked to the

1809
01:33:18,319 --> 01:33:21,479
lawyers at a Person of wild Life long ago about this,

1810
01:33:22,520 --> 01:33:26,640
and they said that it was their opinion that there

1811
01:33:26,760 --> 01:33:30,560
was nothing they could find in the law cases that

1812
01:33:30,680 --> 01:33:33,279
had run through Texas, so there's no precedent for this.

1813
01:33:34,520 --> 01:33:39,520
But if the rancher could produce a receipt that in

1814
01:33:39,640 --> 01:33:45,239
the past he had sold seed to someone from that plant, that, yes,

1815
01:33:45,359 --> 01:33:49,039
that would be considered a take. So we were after

1816
01:33:49,119 --> 01:33:50,600
the red buds, so he would have had to have

1817
01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:55,199
found somebody who would have a cancel check and the

1818
01:33:55,319 --> 01:33:57,760
rancher had a receipt for that date or around that

1819
01:33:57,920 --> 01:34:00,800
date for selling the red to that guy.

1820
01:34:01,039 --> 01:34:02,840
Speaker 1: But if it wasn't something he had already sold and

1821
01:34:04,119 --> 01:34:08,840
capitalized that because it's if people are interested, because I'm

1822
01:34:08,880 --> 01:34:11,560
skeptical of this is this is this? If this is legit?

1823
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:14,079
Where can people read more about it? Where would it

1824
01:34:14,159 --> 01:34:17,720
be right here? And this this vernon well, you're.

1825
01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:21,079
Speaker 2: Going to have to find the appropriate volume, which is

1826
01:34:21,159 --> 01:34:24,560
going to be a I imagine on Google or if

1827
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:27,880
you call them up and asked him and said, hey,

1828
01:34:28,640 --> 01:34:32,319
what volume in Texas in your Texas Laws series?

1829
01:34:32,680 --> 01:34:33,239
Speaker 1: Would would?

1830
01:34:33,399 --> 01:34:34,840
Speaker 2: Would? Would would? Trust.

1831
01:34:35,119 --> 01:34:37,199
Speaker 1: I hope someone out there looks into this, because I

1832
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:39,760
find this so hard to believe right now that I'm

1833
01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:42,640
so crazy in West texts. I so want it to

1834
01:34:42,720 --> 01:34:44,520
be true. And this is a guy in the Davis

1835
01:34:45,159 --> 01:34:49,840
Davis area, fourth Davis area that just started taking what

1836
01:34:50,039 --> 01:34:51,920
was it you noticed the surveys.

1837
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:54,039
Speaker 2: Were we're off with the GP at dawn of GPS.

1838
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:57,119
Speaker 1: And he went out there and realized that this flame.

1839
01:34:57,319 --> 01:35:02,399
Speaker 2: And caused this terrible confusion of property and who owns

1840
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:06,560
what on the of Mount Livermore. Yeah, and got a

1841
01:35:06,680 --> 01:35:11,279
large chunk off the side of Mount Livermore for his arm,

1842
01:35:11,399 --> 01:35:13,239
basically for his time and trouble.

1843
01:35:13,760 --> 01:35:15,359
Speaker 1: And so the cop let you go that day.

1844
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:19,720
Speaker 2: He was like, thank you so much for not making

1845
01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:22,239
me arrest these guys. I mean it really would have been.

1846
01:35:22,760 --> 01:35:24,760
Speaker 1: Really arrest the lands.

1847
01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:30,560
Speaker 2: Two of them. Yeah, and uh, threatening with a firearm.

1848
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:34,760
That's yes, if you point a gun at someone in Texas,

1849
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:37,319
you're supposed to pull the trigger, by the way, So.

1850
01:35:37,399 --> 01:35:39,479
Speaker 1: What did these guys, how'd that go with them?

1851
01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:40,079
Speaker 2: That was just it?

1852
01:35:40,279 --> 01:35:42,560
Speaker 1: Or what I mean? I imagine that pretty intensed?

1853
01:35:43,359 --> 01:35:47,760
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, when the when the cop took his handcuffs

1854
01:35:47,800 --> 01:35:54,079
out and said, please don't make me use these probably

1855
01:35:56,760 --> 01:35:56,960
is it.

1856
01:35:57,000 --> 01:35:57,880
Speaker 1: The new puppy or what.

1857
01:35:59,640 --> 01:36:04,159
Speaker 2: There? Okay, porkers, here is a puppy on your side.

1858
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:08,479
Speaker 1: Okay, sitting back down after a much needed break, We're

1859
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:11,199
not done yet. Well, fucking I'll go another hour if

1860
01:36:11,239 --> 01:36:13,600
you want. Okay, So I forget where we were, But

1861
01:36:13,680 --> 01:36:16,119
I wanted to talk about the Texas Rangers because some

1862
01:36:16,239 --> 01:36:18,920
really gnarly shit went down here, especially in the southern part.

1863
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:22,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, the southern part is far away.

1864
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:25,800
Speaker 1: Nineteen hundred twenties, you were saying in the north this

1865
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:27,800
was just oh or just a law enforcement In the

1866
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:31,359
south there basically guestopo running people off their land eighteen

1867
01:36:31,479 --> 01:36:35,399
fifty through nineteen twenties. Well, La Matanza where I live,

1868
01:36:35,880 --> 01:36:39,319
which was a massacre against Mexican Americans, happened in the

1869
01:36:39,399 --> 01:36:42,000
fucking nineteen ten through the twenties. I mean, just straight

1870
01:36:42,079 --> 01:36:46,720
up robbing people of their land. What the fuck? How

1871
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:48,399
I mean this shit's been covered up. A lot of

1872
01:36:48,439 --> 01:36:49,920
people don't even know a lot of people where I

1873
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:52,119
grew up, don't even know where I live now, I

1874
01:36:52,159 --> 01:36:53,039
don't even know about it.

1875
01:36:53,800 --> 01:36:59,359
Speaker 2: Well, you know, there's a really sad aspect of the

1876
01:37:00,079 --> 01:37:04,279
Hanno culture is that there's no need to learn something

1877
01:37:04,319 --> 01:37:07,960
if it's not of a tremendous practical value to you.

1878
01:37:08,279 --> 01:37:10,760
And that's everything from swint to learning how to swim,

1879
01:37:12,640 --> 01:37:16,039
to the basic history of how you got where you

1880
01:37:16,199 --> 01:37:20,000
are and uh, and why you're you're you're stock at

1881
01:37:20,039 --> 01:37:23,760
where you are. So that that's just a really a

1882
01:37:24,199 --> 01:37:29,399
sort of a strange cultural bias, uh, that they haven't

1883
01:37:29,560 --> 01:37:32,520
in many regards. I mean we I guess every culture

1884
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:34,920
has their own, but there's well.

1885
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:37,680
Speaker 1: There's a huge history of angle O repression, yes see.

1886
01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:41,720
And it's fucking ridiculous. I mean this, you know, friends

1887
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:44,960
of mine who weren't taught Spanish. Uh, you know, and

1888
01:37:45,079 --> 01:37:48,560
really what Mexican is, it's Spanish and indigenous, and some

1889
01:37:48,720 --> 01:37:51,600
people are more Spanish, some people are more indigenous. Hold on,

1890
01:37:51,720 --> 01:37:54,840
we got dog drama going on. Okay, We're just gonna

1891
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:56,840
have to you know, can you please stop that?

1892
01:37:57,199 --> 01:37:57,560
Speaker 2: All right?

1893
01:37:57,840 --> 01:38:01,600
Speaker 1: Excuse me? You're cute, but that's fucking so. So you've

1894
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:04,640
got this the Spanish and Indigenous heritage, and there's this

1895
01:38:04,920 --> 01:38:07,560
like renunciation almost that I see. I mean, I've lived

1896
01:38:07,600 --> 01:38:09,920
in Mexican neighborhoods my whole life, have grown up around

1897
01:38:09,920 --> 01:38:13,840
Mexican my whole life. And there's you know, other neighborhoods

1898
01:38:13,880 --> 01:38:17,159
like Tucson, Oakland, fucking brightly painted houses, streets named after

1899
01:38:17,239 --> 01:38:20,840
Caesar Chavez. In the valley, it's the same. It's beije.

1900
01:38:21,439 --> 01:38:23,800
Everyone's trying to have a long no. I mean the

1901
01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:26,920
fucking murals there. It's ninety nine percent of Mexican American

1902
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:29,600
and murals are for fucking white dudes that have been

1903
01:38:29,640 --> 01:38:32,439
dead for one hundred years. It's the most. It's so

1904
01:38:32,840 --> 01:38:35,960
it's like living in the matrix. It's so fucking weird

1905
01:38:36,039 --> 01:38:38,159
to me. It's what the kids today would call it

1906
01:38:38,239 --> 01:38:40,359
hasn't been decolonized. But I kind of hate that word

1907
01:38:40,399 --> 01:38:43,600
because it's just it's been overused. It's a fucking buzz word.

1908
01:38:43,680 --> 01:38:47,760
It's stupid. It's anyway. Yeah, I get why people use it,

1909
01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:50,159
but this is just straight up, I mean, it's it's

1910
01:38:50,199 --> 01:38:52,359
so weird. But then you learn about la Matanza and

1911
01:38:52,439 --> 01:38:56,680
you're like, oh, there was like serious repercussions for speaking Spanish,

1912
01:38:57,239 --> 01:38:59,720
for being too brown for any of this shit. What's

1913
01:38:59,800 --> 01:39:02,279
up with when did this really start? What's your awareness?

1914
01:39:03,399 --> 01:39:05,800
Speaker 2: I mean this, you know, when you start reading the

1915
01:39:06,159 --> 01:39:10,039
colonial history of Spain, you can see they had these

1916
01:39:10,279 --> 01:39:14,039
these class divisions based on your skin color, right, and

1917
01:39:14,479 --> 01:39:17,279
you still get that in Mexico. Oh yeah, and and

1918
01:39:17,399 --> 01:39:19,600
then you not only did you have that, you had

1919
01:39:19,680 --> 01:39:24,760
a whole other set of class divisions on your racial heritage.

1920
01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:29,840
I mean, why is it at the top.

1921
01:39:30,079 --> 01:39:35,520
Speaker 1: It's just biologically illiterate to biologically illiterate, that's what I

1922
01:39:35,680 --> 01:39:39,399
That's what really are. It's so fucking dumb, like alleles

1923
01:39:39,439 --> 01:39:42,479
the code for melon in production, not knowing you know

1924
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:45,920
what melanin is and why there's different vary variations of

1925
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:48,880
it and using that that just divide and you know,

1926
01:39:49,560 --> 01:39:54,000
and it's a territorial chimp like territorial pissings.

1927
01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:56,920
Speaker 2: I worked for twenty five plus years. I got a

1928
01:39:57,079 --> 01:40:04,079
green card for an illiterate uh Mexican from the Guanauato area,

1929
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:06,520
couldn't read a right. Try to send him to the

1930
01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:09,279
church school to read. He just like and like I said.

1931
01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:11,720
He was like, look, if the Good Lord meant me

1932
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:13,640
to read and be able to read, I'd be able

1933
01:40:13,680 --> 01:40:15,359
to read. But it has no use to me. And

1934
01:40:15,439 --> 01:40:19,840
I was like, who is this. This is my coworker

1935
01:40:20,159 --> 01:40:25,079
for twenty five years, Javier Cervantes, great worker, nice guy.

1936
01:40:26,239 --> 01:40:28,199
He could take an engine apart, being even though he

1937
01:40:28,279 --> 01:40:32,439
was illiterate, didn't understand anti physical phenomenon. He could take

1938
01:40:32,479 --> 01:40:34,600
a car apart and put it back together. I watched

1939
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:37,119
him take his engine out of a Ford F one

1940
01:40:37,239 --> 01:40:41,680
hundred out, take the heads apart, replace some rings, put

1941
01:40:41,720 --> 01:40:44,760
it back together, have it back in the bolted to

1942
01:40:44,920 --> 01:40:49,720
the frame, and running by sundown the same day. I mean,

1943
01:40:50,239 --> 01:40:53,680
right right, very clever person in many ways, but at

1944
01:40:53,680 --> 01:40:56,680
the same time, he would never I could not get

1945
01:40:56,760 --> 01:40:58,960
him to learn to swim, even in the swimming pool

1946
01:40:58,960 --> 01:41:00,760
where he could demontrable standing had.

1947
01:41:01,119 --> 01:41:04,560
Speaker 1: But going back to the Latians and what the rangers

1948
01:41:04,600 --> 01:41:06,680
were doing down there, where did this come from? Where

1949
01:41:06,760 --> 01:41:08,760
did it start? Who did the order come from?

1950
01:41:08,960 --> 01:41:12,680
Speaker 2: Like the straight up well started right right after the revolution,

1951
01:41:13,000 --> 01:41:17,439
and it was basically It's my opinion for my readings

1952
01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:21,720
is this was basically brought in an attitude that was

1953
01:41:21,840 --> 01:41:26,960
brought into Texas by the flood of emigrants shortly after

1954
01:41:27,079 --> 01:41:34,920
the Anglos, primarily from the what I would call Dixie. Yeah, yeah,

1955
01:41:35,159 --> 01:41:38,520
the States. They carried a lot of that sort of

1956
01:41:38,680 --> 01:41:43,399
racial attitudes on skin speak, skin pigmentation with them, And

1957
01:41:45,159 --> 01:41:47,000
I don't know, I guess it was just a source

1958
01:41:47,079 --> 01:41:50,039
of power to them, making maybe making them feel better

1959
01:41:50,079 --> 01:41:56,079
about their own lives. But it was. It's not present

1960
01:41:56,319 --> 01:41:58,239
in the original settlers.

1961
01:41:57,760 --> 01:42:00,279
Speaker 1: Here, right, But but you see that still today, these

1962
01:42:00,319 --> 01:42:03,720
all these weird this these frustrations about demographic change and

1963
01:42:03,800 --> 01:42:04,920
this weird paranoia.

1964
01:42:05,760 --> 01:42:10,399
Speaker 2: You know, that's the state ways a resurgence of it,

1965
01:42:10,560 --> 01:42:13,520
from Corpus Christie all the way down to Browns.

1966
01:42:13,439 --> 01:42:17,000
Speaker 1: Ken Paxton, you know, filing lawsuits against you know, a

1967
01:42:17,119 --> 01:42:22,199
voter registration orgs in San Antonio and like they're registered,

1968
01:42:22,239 --> 01:42:25,680
they're they're registering legal citizens to vote and legal immigrants

1969
01:42:26,159 --> 01:42:29,199
can't vote. Like they're doing something entirely within the bonds

1970
01:42:29,239 --> 01:42:31,920
of the law. You fucking pig creep. Why not you

1971
01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:32,319
know what I mean?

1972
01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:36,680
Speaker 2: Like, it's no, it's it's it's it's it's my cannot

1973
01:42:36,760 --> 01:42:39,399
wrap my head around why people would act that way.

1974
01:42:40,800 --> 01:42:43,800
Speaker 1: But but still I mean, tracing this history is just wow.

1975
01:42:43,960 --> 01:42:45,600
I mean, I want to talk about plants too, but

1976
01:42:45,680 --> 01:42:51,359
this ship is just it's the cultural situation in Texas

1977
01:42:51,399 --> 01:42:55,520
obviously affects the plant the situation of the plants too,

1978
01:42:55,760 --> 01:42:56,800
of the things that live here.

1979
01:42:56,920 --> 01:43:00,880
Speaker 2: You know, oh absolutely, I think you know. This has

1980
01:43:00,920 --> 01:43:04,279
been one of the one of the most brutal things

1981
01:43:04,319 --> 01:43:08,000
about the ecology of the Hill Country is being destroyed

1982
01:43:08,039 --> 01:43:14,560
by people who never live there. They've never owned property there.

1983
01:43:15,399 --> 01:43:17,319
They at best they went out on a deer, a

1984
01:43:17,439 --> 01:43:21,199
drunken deer hunting a weekend. Other than that, they just

1985
01:43:21,319 --> 01:43:23,239
joined in with a bunch of friends that had some

1986
01:43:23,359 --> 01:43:28,439
money and put together a development and Godello south side

1987
01:43:28,439 --> 01:43:30,920
of Blanco and took a square mile and walked off

1988
01:43:31,000 --> 01:43:32,960
with a few hundred thousand dollars each.

1989
01:43:33,079 --> 01:43:36,159
Speaker 1: But these developments are going up and there's no talk

1990
01:43:36,199 --> 01:43:39,359
about water shortages or the fucking insane he waves that

1991
01:43:39,479 --> 01:43:41,439
are forecast for the next few decades.

1992
01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:44,720
Speaker 2: Bernie. I'd be very curious to see what happens to

1993
01:43:44,840 --> 01:43:47,920
Bernie in twenty five here where is Bernie? That is

1994
01:43:48,039 --> 01:43:50,760
west of San Antonio, about twenty five miles.

1995
01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:53,920
Speaker 1: Not to mention when you pave everything because it's all driving.

1996
01:43:54,039 --> 01:43:57,000
It's like a death cult of being trapped in an automobile,

1997
01:43:57,239 --> 01:43:59,680
you know, which not to mention the metabolic.

1998
01:43:59,279 --> 01:44:04,960
Speaker 2: Diseases that now. Bernie was quintessential hill country cowboy town

1999
01:44:05,840 --> 01:44:11,640
right up to nineteen eighty and between it and the

2000
01:44:11,760 --> 01:44:18,520
northern edge of San Antonio a subdivision came in and

2001
01:44:20,079 --> 01:44:24,199
based on a golf course. Originally it swelled to thousands

2002
01:44:24,279 --> 01:44:27,520
of houses. I'm trying to think, is it fair Oaks sometime?

2003
01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:29,600
Speaker 1: Remember a fucking golf course?

2004
01:44:30,399 --> 01:44:34,800
Speaker 2: Golf course and Bernie. Now I go through Bernie, you know,

2005
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:38,600
every four months, and every time I go through, it's

2006
01:44:38,720 --> 01:44:42,600
stretched on its east side another half mile three quarters.

2007
01:44:42,760 --> 01:44:46,840
Speaker 1: The biggest strip and offence, thinny golfers out there, but

2008
01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:47,920
it's not a real sport.

2009
01:44:49,279 --> 01:44:52,199
Speaker 2: In Botany, in the Bondany Department, we always we had

2010
01:44:52,960 --> 01:44:57,000
a movement where we tried to talk to people who

2011
01:44:57,079 --> 01:44:59,760
are putting golf courses in to use him as a

2012
01:45:00,279 --> 01:45:01,880
botanic gardens in Refusia.

2013
01:45:02,199 --> 01:45:03,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, for the cooler.

2014
01:45:03,319 --> 01:45:06,920
Speaker 2: Species that there's is it all coexists? It would all

2015
01:45:06,960 --> 01:45:10,479
make it look nicer and so forth. And strangely they

2016
01:45:11,479 --> 01:45:14,079
never got with was the Barton Creek.

2017
01:45:14,720 --> 01:45:20,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, the people that golf don't give generally golf. They

2018
01:45:20,359 --> 01:45:24,760
don't care, you know. But anyway, actually I know a

2019
01:45:24,840 --> 01:45:26,479
couple of guys that golf that are all right.

2020
01:45:26,560 --> 01:45:26,720
Speaker 2: You know.

2021
01:45:27,439 --> 01:45:30,640
Speaker 1: One's actually immigration attorney. Good dude, you know, a good

2022
01:45:30,800 --> 01:45:34,199
immigration attorney, that kind of im. But but uh, you know,

2023
01:45:35,000 --> 01:45:37,359
it's by and large it's a you know, it's a

2024
01:45:37,880 --> 01:45:39,800
demographic thing, the golfer.

2025
01:45:41,159 --> 01:45:45,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thankfully it's it's it's shrunk in the in

2026
01:45:45,840 --> 01:45:47,640
the last decade, twenty.

2027
01:45:47,479 --> 01:45:49,640
Speaker 1: Years, God has it. When I worked at the railroad,

2028
01:45:49,640 --> 01:45:51,279
there were guys that were trying to golf. What the

2029
01:45:51,319 --> 01:45:53,319
fuck you doing, man, what are you doing? Really, go

2030
01:45:53,920 --> 01:45:56,399
fucking go to a boxing gym, do something. The fuck

2031
01:45:56,479 --> 01:45:58,640
is this? You put on your fucking stupid pants and

2032
01:45:58,720 --> 01:46:00,720
your shoes and little in.

2033
01:46:00,760 --> 01:46:03,119
Speaker 2: A lot of ways, it's got a lot of the aspects.

2034
01:46:04,079 --> 01:46:05,800
It takes you out of the house and away from

2035
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:09,079
your wife and children for four hours, six hours.

2036
01:46:09,159 --> 01:46:10,640
Speaker 1: So just go into a boxing gym.

2037
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:16,319
Speaker 2: You know, we're going to fucking that spouse knows right

2038
01:46:16,359 --> 01:46:16,840
where you are.

2039
01:46:19,319 --> 01:46:23,520
Speaker 1: But anyway, all right, well so I forget well over

2040
01:46:23,640 --> 01:46:23,960
the place.

2041
01:46:24,159 --> 01:46:25,399
Speaker 2: So you let's talk.

2042
01:46:25,600 --> 01:46:27,159
Speaker 1: You've been to Mexico many.

2043
01:46:27,159 --> 01:46:29,520
Speaker 2: Oh God, that was that was one of the best

2044
01:46:33,319 --> 01:46:36,079
out of the bout department. We would check out a

2045
01:46:36,199 --> 01:46:41,039
vehicle every summer, every winter go down. Three to five

2046
01:46:41,159 --> 01:46:45,119
of us go down for two to three weeks. Uh,

2047
01:46:45,960 --> 01:46:51,640
you know, especially the northeastern part. I mean we we

2048
01:46:51,720 --> 01:46:55,960
would occasionally like drive to Presidio, cross over to uh

2049
01:46:56,119 --> 01:46:59,760
Chihuahua and take the ferry to the tip of bah

2050
01:47:00,239 --> 01:47:01,039
cover up Baha.

2051
01:47:02,439 --> 01:47:05,960
Speaker 1: That's great about I think that's a good way though, too,

2052
01:47:06,039 --> 01:47:08,640
to experience the North American condent because you realize these

2053
01:47:08,680 --> 01:47:11,840
stupid fucking geopolitical boundaries. It's the same plants, it's the

2054
01:47:11,880 --> 01:47:14,760
same life forms, and it slowly changes. You get different

2055
01:47:14,800 --> 01:47:17,800
ecotypes as you go south to Tropha Dioeca grows the

2056
01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:19,039
way the fuck down in correct.

2057
01:47:19,600 --> 01:47:22,640
Speaker 2: What's really amazing to me. And Michael Easton got to

2058
01:47:22,680 --> 01:47:26,199
see this for himself the one place he's finally been

2059
01:47:26,359 --> 01:47:31,920
went over the border shirtless Grand size. I mean from

2060
01:47:32,079 --> 01:47:34,439
like Big Bend to the mouth of the Rio Grand.

2061
01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:37,279
When you get over the river, it changes radically.

2062
01:47:38,720 --> 01:47:41,199
Speaker 1: It doesn't, it doesn't it all, it doesn't know.

2063
01:47:42,119 --> 01:47:44,600
Speaker 2: As Michael was like, I can't believe this on you know,

2064
01:47:44,920 --> 01:47:49,119
eleven miles or whatever, from the Rio grand But half

2065
01:47:49,199 --> 01:47:51,359
of the plants that are there are not nade over

2066
01:47:51,479 --> 01:47:52,239
found in the US.

2067
01:47:52,319 --> 01:47:55,840
Speaker 1: That's true, There's there's many plants abruptly stuff. It's yeah,

2068
01:47:56,159 --> 01:48:00,159
it's but there's many plants that go right south too, and.

2069
01:48:00,199 --> 01:48:03,399
Speaker 2: Ski right Coberline. I mean, come on.

2070
01:48:03,640 --> 01:48:05,520
Speaker 1: But also, as you start to go south, you're not

2071
01:48:05,600 --> 01:48:08,079
just going south, you're just going down a latitude, going

2072
01:48:08,199 --> 01:48:11,159
up in elevation. The entire in the entirety of central

2073
01:48:11,199 --> 01:48:13,920
Mexico is at five thousand feet.

2074
01:48:13,760 --> 01:48:17,720
Speaker 2: Very very What makes it so botanically rich. Mexico is

2075
01:48:17,800 --> 01:48:20,680
probably as well as was at least when I was

2076
01:48:20,760 --> 01:48:23,720
in grad school, to probably have more species of plants

2077
01:48:23,760 --> 01:48:26,560
than any other country was the fact that you have

2078
01:48:26,800 --> 01:48:31,880
these innumerable isolated mountain ranges, the sky stopping you know,

2079
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:34,840
starting out at the base altitude of you know, three

2080
01:48:34,920 --> 01:48:35,960
thousand and four thousands, the.

2081
01:48:35,960 --> 01:48:39,520
Speaker 1: Sky elevation going up to ten twelve, and they act

2082
01:48:39,680 --> 01:48:42,920
like refugee because as the climate changes, saying the place

2083
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:45,720
to see these organisms can move up, the plants can be.

2084
01:48:45,920 --> 01:48:50,159
Speaker 2: Dropping up Orizaba. And fortunately the little weenie truck I

2085
01:48:50,279 --> 01:48:54,760
had went up two miles past all the other cars

2086
01:48:54,800 --> 01:48:57,399
that had died from lack of oxygen. Mine was still running.

2087
01:48:57,439 --> 01:48:59,520
Everybody was a few people up there were like, I

2088
01:48:59,600 --> 01:49:03,159
can't you got supplemental air going into that. No, that

2089
01:49:03,319 --> 01:49:07,159
thing's still running at this else. Oh god, I think

2090
01:49:07,239 --> 01:49:10,880
we got that thing up to thirteen five hundred. It

2091
01:49:11,039 --> 01:49:15,359
was a little Nissan four cylinder Wieni truck. Yeah, and

2092
01:49:15,600 --> 01:49:17,399
uh yeah, that was my Mulei trip when I got

2093
01:49:17,560 --> 01:49:22,199
this fabulous colection of Muhlenbergi, a species which was nicely found,

2094
01:49:22,239 --> 01:49:24,680
the one that the oh what was that couple at

2095
01:49:24,800 --> 01:49:28,359
a University of Arizona system. They spent their life doing

2096
01:49:28,399 --> 01:49:30,840
his husband and wife doing a Muhlenbergie and there was

2097
01:49:30,880 --> 01:49:33,800
only one tax on they had never seen. And I

2098
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:35,960
came back with it and got it into cultivation of

2099
01:49:36,119 --> 01:49:40,640
Muelenbergie a lepto Europe And they were like, man, can

2100
01:49:40,720 --> 01:49:43,239
you tell us? They when they found out I found it,

2101
01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:46,319
they called me and I said where do you live?

2102
01:49:46,359 --> 01:49:48,399
And they said we were retired in Tucson. And I said,

2103
01:49:48,439 --> 01:49:50,960
get your pen and paper, I'll give you exact directions.

2104
01:49:51,479 --> 01:49:54,279
They were in their eighties. They called me back twelve days.

2105
01:49:54,319 --> 01:49:55,600
Speaker 1: Did you ever go to l CLO?

2106
01:49:56,199 --> 01:49:57,039
Speaker 2: Oh Rancho Cielo.

2107
01:49:57,239 --> 01:49:58,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, four or five times.

2108
01:49:58,600 --> 01:50:01,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was there time I went on, which was,

2109
01:50:03,319 --> 01:50:08,039
oh god, they destroyed all the forest around it. You

2110
01:50:08,119 --> 01:50:11,199
could drive up to it. Now, I was just what

2111
01:50:13,039 --> 01:50:16,159
they destroyed, all the mountain sides on the old Pan

2112
01:50:16,239 --> 01:50:20,800
American Highway down to uh uh you know you turn off,

2113
01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:22,359
was it, Gomez faria.

2114
01:50:22,560 --> 01:50:24,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, to get out there.

2115
01:50:24,319 --> 01:50:26,520
Speaker 2: But on the main highway, the Pan American Highway down

2116
01:50:26,560 --> 01:50:30,439
there these mountain sides that had remained intact forever. Just

2117
01:50:30,560 --> 01:50:32,800
in the six years since I was there last, they

2118
01:50:32,840 --> 01:50:37,920
were completely denuded and replaced. People were growing sugar cane

2119
01:50:38,159 --> 01:50:42,800
on the sides of mountains that the slope was fifty

2120
01:50:42,920 --> 01:50:46,239
sixty degree. What insanity was this?

2121
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:49,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, such a rich area too, such a fucking ri

2122
01:50:50,000 --> 01:50:53,880
Oh yeah, I mean just stand hoopia, that cool orchid,

2123
01:50:53,960 --> 01:50:57,359
that epiphetic orchid that blooms from the bottom those huge

2124
01:50:57,439 --> 01:51:00,680
cave systems. It's all karst line stone up there.

2125
01:51:01,600 --> 01:51:05,800
Speaker 2: Yeahs oh yeah, that was the Now you talk about

2126
01:51:05,880 --> 01:51:09,119
Rancho Cielo, which that's that's gone now. But the first

2127
01:51:09,199 --> 01:51:11,600
time I went to Rancho Colo you had to walk

2128
01:51:11,720 --> 01:51:14,840
like nine miles from parking your car. Now, that was

2129
01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:18,279
when Gomez Farias was you know sixty eighty people. It's

2130
01:51:18,319 --> 01:51:21,039
where the electric line stopped at a little tienda when

2131
01:51:21,079 --> 01:51:22,800
you pay the guy five bucks to watch your car

2132
01:51:22,920 --> 01:51:24,199
for the week. You were going to be up there.

2133
01:51:24,239 --> 01:51:25,279
Speaker 1: And this is in the eighties or what.

2134
01:51:25,520 --> 01:51:30,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you walked early eighties. You walked from Gomez

2135
01:51:30,439 --> 01:51:34,000
Faria through this guy's avocado ranch which was just destroyed

2136
01:51:34,079 --> 01:51:38,439
in the frieze of eighty three, and then you went

2137
01:51:38,560 --> 01:51:41,399
up the mountain. And when you climbed up that mountain,

2138
01:51:41,479 --> 01:51:45,319
you finally got to the top and literally leaning over

2139
01:51:45,479 --> 01:51:48,279
with your hands on the ground, crying, and all of

2140
01:51:48,319 --> 01:51:51,359
a sudden you pop up over the lip. I still

2141
01:51:51,439 --> 01:51:52,479
have dreams about.

2142
01:51:52,279 --> 01:51:55,000
Speaker 1: The Deca Tropis, you know, the one that rutas you were.

2143
01:51:54,960 --> 01:52:00,880
Speaker 2: Talking about thee Yeah, hit this forest of totacarpus that

2144
01:52:01,000 --> 01:52:04,520
were five to eight feet across at breast height. There

2145
01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:05,800
were one hundred and fifty.

2146
01:52:05,640 --> 01:52:06,960
Speaker 1: And you're saying that's all gone now.

2147
01:52:07,399 --> 01:52:09,680
Speaker 2: Yep, they turned it all into orae grapes.

2148
01:52:10,159 --> 01:52:10,560
Speaker 1: Jesus.

2149
01:52:11,279 --> 01:52:13,760
Speaker 2: I had a permit to bring orchids across I bring

2150
01:52:13,960 --> 01:52:16,520
I was limited to twelve, but I would walk on

2151
01:52:16,640 --> 01:52:18,760
my way back through there and grab my twelve that

2152
01:52:18,840 --> 01:52:20,600
would all be the size of a trash can.

2153
01:52:20,760 --> 01:52:23,800
Speaker 1: This deca tropis bicolor of routasi. It's a really cool

2154
01:52:23,880 --> 01:52:25,479
It looks like a sue mac or something. It was

2155
01:52:25,520 --> 01:52:29,640
just you know, pinnate leaves, but russety undersides. It's got

2156
01:52:29,680 --> 01:52:31,199
the indumentum on the underside.

2157
01:52:31,199 --> 01:52:35,039
Speaker 2: On the actual with the bocarneos, I mean, all the

2158
01:52:35,159 --> 01:52:37,520
cool plants on the on that walk up, but there

2159
01:52:37,640 --> 01:52:40,520
was a potacarpus force. It's in my dreams because there's

2160
01:52:40,640 --> 01:52:45,039
nothing underneath it. Yeah, other than some eight ten foot

2161
01:52:45,199 --> 01:52:48,880
tall tree ferns and the branches that had blown out

2162
01:52:49,000 --> 01:52:52,439
that were just festooned with bromeliads and orchids laying there

2163
01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:54,960
with got or two running around eating the.

2164
01:52:55,079 --> 01:52:56,920
Speaker 1: Orchids cut down for fucking dover.

2165
01:52:57,079 --> 01:53:00,439
Speaker 2: Oh they cut it all down there, all all gone

2166
01:53:00,720 --> 01:53:03,520
in turn. They why then the world they didn't sell

2167
01:53:03,600 --> 01:53:07,319
that stuff to the Japanese for a fortune instead of

2168
01:53:07,520 --> 01:53:11,159
literally I remember sitting in gold mis Foras, which then

2169
01:53:11,359 --> 01:53:13,840
was like over ten thousand people in ninety six. There

2170
01:53:13,880 --> 01:53:16,680
were people just sitting there taking staves of that, splitting

2171
01:53:16,760 --> 01:53:23,279
them up into eighth inch thick, six inch across, like

2172
01:53:23,560 --> 01:53:26,279
you make a basket. They were making orange. They were

2173
01:53:26,319 --> 01:53:28,199
making crates for vegetables out of it.

2174
01:53:28,399 --> 01:53:28,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2175
01:53:29,079 --> 01:53:31,760
Speaker 2: I was like, how can you take that beautiful and

2176
01:53:31,920 --> 01:53:36,079
valuable off of a several hundred year old tree to

2177
01:53:36,199 --> 01:53:40,479
make orange crates vegetable crates? I mean you could be

2178
01:53:40,640 --> 01:53:41,760
selling that thing for days?

2179
01:53:41,840 --> 01:53:43,319
Speaker 1: When did you stop going to Mexico?

2180
01:53:43,600 --> 01:53:46,600
Speaker 2: Like what? The last trip I went down was two

2181
01:53:46,680 --> 01:53:51,079
thousand and one and I just went went down through Monterey,

2182
01:53:51,479 --> 01:53:55,760
went down to that Horsetail Falls National Park, drove the

2183
01:53:55,840 --> 01:53:59,399
backway to Sawtello, which was really an incredible drive. I

2184
01:53:59,560 --> 01:54:02,239
really me a lesson about things that we think are rare,

2185
01:54:02,399 --> 01:54:09,640
like the Bohinia and Jesta and Pistachia Mexicana. There was

2186
01:54:09,920 --> 01:54:12,520
square miles there was nothing but a thicket of that.

2187
01:54:12,840 --> 01:54:15,800
Speaker 1: That's the one that they called Texas Texas. Yeah, but

2188
01:54:15,920 --> 01:54:18,600
it's all on Mexiconian right, And.

2189
01:54:20,359 --> 01:54:22,800
Speaker 2: You know, died out collecting that when I first started

2190
01:54:23,079 --> 01:54:26,520
along Sycamore Creek there there by the Seminole Canyon.

2191
01:54:26,840 --> 01:54:28,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is that population still there?

2192
01:54:29,680 --> 01:54:33,359
Speaker 2: You know? The damnedest thing is uh ye, I wouldn't

2193
01:54:33,439 --> 01:54:36,199
think so, no, But I can tell you something really weird.

2194
01:54:36,720 --> 01:54:39,640
I figured out where the spot was in San Antonio.

2195
01:54:39,800 --> 01:54:43,319
I had a great guess where that spot spot. There's

2196
01:54:43,399 --> 01:54:47,800
in the trees, shrubs and woody vines of the Southwest.

2197
01:54:48,279 --> 01:54:52,720
There's a mention that on the outskirts of San Antonio

2198
01:54:52,880 --> 01:54:55,079
is a population. And when I really got to know

2199
01:54:55,199 --> 01:54:58,159
San Antonio, I knew that had to be. Just on

2200
01:54:58,319 --> 01:55:01,079
the Trinity University side of Hilda Brand.

2201
01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:02,640
Speaker 1: There was a wild population.

2202
01:55:03,880 --> 01:55:07,359
Speaker 2: And I knew that had to be the site, just

2203
01:55:07,399 --> 01:55:10,000
from my gut feeling from the weird it's all all

2204
01:55:10,039 --> 01:55:12,479
the vegetation there has gone now. But when I first

2205
01:55:12,680 --> 01:55:15,439
saw that in the early eighties, I said, this has

2206
01:55:15,560 --> 01:55:17,159
to have been because that would have been the edge

2207
01:55:17,199 --> 01:55:23,319
of San Antonio. And sure enough, at the backgarden years later,

2208
01:55:23,520 --> 01:55:28,239
somebody brought they were clearing out their grandfathers O Jesus,

2209
01:55:28,560 --> 01:55:31,159
and they brought in several shoe boxes of black and

2210
01:55:31,199 --> 01:55:34,680
white photos. And that was an amateur.

2211
01:55:34,319 --> 01:55:36,960
Speaker 1: Botanist decades earlier.

2212
01:55:37,119 --> 01:55:44,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, photos of the population of the Pistachio and labor

2213
01:55:44,880 --> 01:55:49,199
Hilda Brand Avenue, just east of Trinity Camp.

2214
01:55:49,039 --> 01:55:49,960
Speaker 1: And they weren't planted.

2215
01:55:50,039 --> 01:55:53,079
Speaker 2: They were. Now there's some Steve and my partner are

2216
01:55:53,119 --> 01:55:55,239
going down. This was ten years ago. Eight years ago

2217
01:55:55,640 --> 01:55:58,359
we drove down to Broadway where those rare bookstores are.

2218
01:55:58,960 --> 01:56:01,039
There's a half priced book store and across the street

2219
01:56:01,119 --> 01:56:07,600
chievers rare books, and they hadn't opened. So we walked

2220
01:56:07,640 --> 01:56:11,520
over across this There was a bridge over this sequia

2221
01:56:13,399 --> 01:56:16,840
into the edge of the park. We got thirty feet

2222
01:56:16,920 --> 01:56:19,520
into that park and I looked down. There was a

2223
01:56:19,640 --> 01:56:24,479
wild two foot tall seedling of Mexican pistache sitting there.

2224
01:56:24,840 --> 01:56:31,880
But everbird was coming and crossing back. Is still extant,

2225
01:56:32,159 --> 01:56:35,640
still eating those things in Mexico and shitting the seeds

2226
01:56:35,680 --> 01:56:41,680
out on its migratory rialty. I was. It stopped my heart.

2227
01:56:42,199 --> 01:56:45,760
I stopped step and had to explain to him these

2228
01:56:45,920 --> 01:56:49,279
significances that were only a mile away, when.

2229
01:56:49,199 --> 01:56:53,119
Speaker 1: You can tell it apart from Chinese pistache, You can't.

2230
01:56:53,199 --> 01:56:56,640
Speaker 2: Not in the seed, but as soon as they sprout

2231
01:56:56,720 --> 01:56:58,319
you can tell them the board, as I learned the

2232
01:56:58,399 --> 01:57:03,119
hard way. He brought me, Uh, three gallons.

2233
01:57:02,880 --> 01:57:05,479
Speaker 1: That's another plan. Why is somebody not growing those by

2234
01:57:05,520 --> 01:57:06,520
the hundreds and trying.

2235
01:57:06,319 --> 01:57:08,560
Speaker 2: To back because the con root rock gets them and

2236
01:57:08,600 --> 01:57:10,800
they're dead and it's a slow, horrible ack.

2237
01:57:11,000 --> 01:57:14,800
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, that's why you can't grow them in landscape.

2238
01:57:14,840 --> 01:57:16,600
Me here. What about the tree and lang tree at

2239
01:57:16,640 --> 01:57:18,039
that roy Bean visitors.

2240
01:57:18,159 --> 01:57:19,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, those were dug up and I did a lot

2241
01:57:19,760 --> 01:57:22,279
of work with with the brothers.

2242
01:57:22,359 --> 01:57:26,680
Speaker 1: The let's tell everybody about Texas pistache is anacrdier say

2243
01:57:26,680 --> 01:57:27,800
it's the true pistache.

2244
01:57:28,199 --> 01:57:30,199
Speaker 2: Yes, and you can't graft it. There was a bunch

2245
01:57:30,239 --> 01:57:32,920
of Arabs and there some Davis in the Davis Mountain

2246
01:57:33,079 --> 01:57:34,960
bought some landing grafted the.

2247
01:57:36,479 --> 01:57:40,039
Speaker 1: But there, but there was a population that got flooded

2248
01:57:40,079 --> 01:57:46,159
out right when hir.

2249
01:57:44,119 --> 01:57:46,279
Speaker 2: And those were dug up and are placed in that

2250
01:57:46,479 --> 01:57:46,960
lang tree.

2251
01:57:47,239 --> 01:57:50,079
Speaker 1: Uh, but there's only one I know there's six of

2252
01:57:50,119 --> 01:57:50,600
them there.

2253
01:57:50,680 --> 01:57:53,159
Speaker 2: There were, I mean they were gorgeous. They looked like

2254
01:57:53,239 --> 01:57:53,840
white birds.

2255
01:57:53,920 --> 01:57:56,079
Speaker 1: But they're susceptible to an invasive root rod.

2256
01:57:56,520 --> 01:58:01,119
Speaker 2: They get Wait what is that? Was it a fusarium?

2257
01:58:01,439 --> 01:58:06,840
It's a it's a non sexually reproducing I believe, uh, pithium.

2258
01:58:07,079 --> 01:58:09,920
So it's everywhere on the Blackland prairie. And the bummer

2259
01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:12,560
with it is it gets moved around on cars and

2260
01:58:12,680 --> 01:58:15,560
your feet and you can't plan anything here. It gets

2261
01:58:15,600 --> 01:58:17,760
a lot of things that are in the rose Acey family.

2262
01:58:18,119 --> 01:58:21,279
Speaker 1: But it nukes introduced.

2263
01:58:22,520 --> 01:58:26,159
Speaker 2: I believe it's Its origin is unknown. I believe it's

2264
01:58:26,239 --> 01:58:29,680
one of these apple mixic. It doesn't have real sex.

2265
01:58:29,800 --> 01:58:34,199
It just vegetatively reproduces or and makes the uh uh

2266
01:58:35,520 --> 01:58:43,640
non uh sexual spores. But it's horrible, horrible. All the

2267
01:58:43,760 --> 01:58:46,760
tax all the taxonomy changed when I learned all this

2268
01:58:46,880 --> 01:58:47,439
in the eighties.

2269
01:58:47,520 --> 01:58:50,720
Speaker 1: Folks got this is it's a brutal and there's no

2270
01:58:51,039 --> 01:58:52,439
there's no resistance to it.

2271
01:58:53,159 --> 01:58:55,039
Speaker 2: No. The only thing you can do with the use

2272
01:58:55,079 --> 01:59:00,800
of aliette will stave it off of what aliet aluminum thos.

2273
01:59:02,720 --> 01:59:05,479
Speaker 1: But that's probably less of a concern. This fungus is

2274
01:59:05,640 --> 01:59:07,640
in the drop down.

2275
01:59:07,479 --> 01:59:12,199
Speaker 2: There, not in it, but in cultivation, and in cultivation

2276
01:59:12,359 --> 01:59:14,560
in this area it's death. There's no way around it. It.

2277
01:59:15,399 --> 01:59:17,920
Oh yeah, I had a couple lights sold like forty two.

2278
01:59:18,199 --> 01:59:20,640
They put a hedge of them to block their neighbor. Oh,

2279
01:59:20,720 --> 01:59:22,560
they were like, they were so happy. The first ten

2280
01:59:22,640 --> 01:59:26,199
twelve years they got twelve feet tall evergreen. You couldn't

2281
01:59:26,199 --> 01:59:29,159
even see their security light through them. Then they called

2282
01:59:29,199 --> 01:59:31,039
me and I came over and I was like, oh,

2283
01:59:31,600 --> 01:59:34,800
cotton root rock just died over Martindale. No, no, no,

2284
01:59:34,960 --> 01:59:38,159
they don't die. The leaves just all fall off, and

2285
01:59:38,239 --> 01:59:40,399
then a few come out and they stay and then

2286
01:59:40,439 --> 01:59:43,000
they turn orange, and then they fall off. Then it

2287
01:59:43,520 --> 01:59:45,640
goes back a little bit more and a few more form.

2288
01:59:45,680 --> 01:59:49,920
It's a very slow depth, very brutal to watch.

2289
01:59:51,479 --> 01:59:54,680
Speaker 1: But anyway, going back to you know plants that have

2290
01:59:54,960 --> 01:59:56,680
a little bit of an occurrence in Texas and then

2291
01:59:56,680 --> 02:00:01,479
a much broader distribution in Mexico, like junipers flacci for instance,

2292
02:00:01,520 --> 02:00:03,159
you only really where do you get that? That's only

2293
02:00:03,319 --> 02:00:03,520
in the.

2294
02:00:04,119 --> 02:00:06,039
Speaker 2: Then get that in the Big Ben Park and there's

2295
02:00:06,119 --> 02:00:08,479
few and far between, and it's very difficult to do

2296
02:00:08,600 --> 02:00:10,239
from seed. It comes well from cutting.

2297
02:00:10,439 --> 02:00:11,680
Speaker 1: What's what's hard about the seed?

2298
02:00:11,880 --> 02:00:14,840
Speaker 2: Just they well, I've just had the first time I

2299
02:00:15,239 --> 02:00:21,520
literally illegally grabbed a handful of the drows. I brought

2300
02:00:21,600 --> 02:00:24,159
them back. I got two hundred of them up literally

2301
02:00:24,239 --> 02:00:26,520
from it. I had like my park on it was

2302
02:00:26,640 --> 02:00:29,079
cold as hell. I shoved a few in my pocket,

2303
02:00:29,159 --> 02:00:29,760
brought them home.

2304
02:00:30,039 --> 02:00:30,520
Speaker 1: What the hell?

2305
02:00:31,279 --> 02:00:37,119
Speaker 2: They all came up then, making a concerted effort. I

2306
02:00:37,239 --> 02:00:40,319
got nothing. Then I tried it from cuttings.

2307
02:00:40,880 --> 02:00:43,119
Speaker 1: How they do growing? I mean they were, oh they did.

2308
02:00:43,319 --> 02:00:44,439
Speaker 2: Look at the one in my front yard.

2309
02:00:44,439 --> 02:00:46,880
Speaker 1: They just died. Yeah, I mean it's a truck, this

2310
02:00:47,039 --> 02:00:48,119
big got it.

2311
02:00:48,640 --> 02:00:51,720
Speaker 2: I have no idea and this is so, but this

2312
02:00:52,000 --> 02:00:54,720
is There's been so much tree death the last three

2313
02:00:54,800 --> 02:01:00,239
years Antexas. Since that winter with the ice and sleep. Yeah, boy,

2314
02:01:00,920 --> 02:01:05,199
the oak wilt has marched on my property six hundred

2315
02:01:05,239 --> 02:01:09,760
feet plus, taken out numerous thousand year old plus oaks,

2316
02:01:10,439 --> 02:01:12,399
went under the road and has now made it to

2317
02:01:12,520 --> 02:01:14,800
the other side. I live on one of the original

2318
02:01:14,880 --> 02:01:18,399
thirteen sites found with oak wilt, and it didn't move

2319
02:01:18,439 --> 02:01:22,119
at all for thirty one years till that winter.

2320
02:01:22,199 --> 02:01:22,680
Speaker 1: With the ice.

2321
02:01:22,840 --> 02:01:25,199
Speaker 2: And that was because of the ice and the sleet

2322
02:01:25,680 --> 02:01:28,439
catching on the juniper boughs and that pulled down the

2323
02:01:29,560 --> 02:01:34,439
oak branches and shattered them lunchitudinely. And then as it

2324
02:01:34,520 --> 02:01:36,920
all melton came up and then we had it warmed

2325
02:01:37,000 --> 02:01:43,560
up quickly and was an extraordinarily cloudy, cool, humid two months.

2326
02:01:44,720 --> 02:01:47,720
The only time I've ever seen those damn little fungus

2327
02:01:47,800 --> 02:01:50,119
beetles where you could actually go up and see them,

2328
02:01:50,119 --> 02:01:54,880
almost like a haze. They're so tiny, fluttering around the branches.

2329
02:01:54,760 --> 02:01:57,399
Speaker 1: What you know, like a plant like juniper's flash that

2330
02:01:57,399 --> 02:02:00,000
I've been growing. That you just had sporadic german as.

2331
02:02:00,279 --> 02:02:01,680
It was just hard to you try to give her

2332
02:02:01,680 --> 02:02:02,520
ellig acid.

2333
02:02:02,319 --> 02:02:08,920
Speaker 2: Or I tried. I've never really had much effect on

2334
02:02:09,079 --> 02:02:12,600
any of the new plants with ga he then I've

2335
02:02:12,680 --> 02:02:16,199
got one through three in viles, and I never had

2336
02:02:16,319 --> 02:02:19,439
much of an effect, if any with that. The best

2337
02:02:19,520 --> 02:02:25,560
effect that I've had, Like for pessimens, you use the

2338
02:02:26,359 --> 02:02:29,920
stone polishers, those sturdy dollars drums. He put some blasting

2339
02:02:30,000 --> 02:02:33,000
sand in it. Throw your pensimen seeds on rather it

2340
02:02:33,119 --> 02:02:35,760
run for twelve hours, take it out, Pour that deep

2341
02:02:35,840 --> 02:02:38,479
purple water off, repeat, repeat, repeat.

2342
02:02:38,560 --> 02:02:40,039
Speaker 1: The need arazen really.

2343
02:02:39,920 --> 02:02:42,920
Speaker 2: Yes, until it stops coming out deep purple. When it

2344
02:02:42,960 --> 02:02:44,239
stops coming out deep.

2345
02:02:44,119 --> 02:02:48,000
Speaker 1: Purple, them off real well. And then the other option,

2346
02:02:48,119 --> 02:02:50,119
I guess is so them and just forget about them

2347
02:02:50,159 --> 02:02:52,800
and be fine with them popping kobeas.

2348
02:02:52,479 --> 02:02:54,840
Speaker 2: Don't come up. Then. I don't know what it is

2349
02:02:54,920 --> 02:02:55,800
about that plan? Were you?

2350
02:02:56,039 --> 02:02:58,920
Speaker 1: Did you grow prudence text thing at all? Well?

2351
02:02:58,960 --> 02:03:01,840
Speaker 2: I can't because my water's alkaline, and it's got to

2352
02:03:01,880 --> 02:03:03,920
be in pure sand. He's got to be in that

2353
02:03:04,000 --> 02:03:09,760
sugar sand. Yeah, at least, God, why someone doesn't hybridize

2354
02:03:09,840 --> 02:03:12,560
that back into peaches. If you've ever eaten one of

2355
02:03:12,560 --> 02:03:16,399
the fruits of this delicious, unbelievable, delicious, like a whole peach.

2356
02:03:16,560 --> 02:03:17,920
Speaker 1: What is prunnu to flora?

2357
02:03:18,039 --> 02:03:20,880
Speaker 2: Like I got it here? It has nothing, it's dry, it's.

2358
02:03:20,760 --> 02:03:23,720
Speaker 1: Already it's a dry It's like an almond or something.

2359
02:03:24,000 --> 02:03:25,439
Speaker 2: It's very tiny, little alm.

2360
02:03:25,680 --> 02:03:26,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, prunas.

2361
02:03:26,840 --> 02:03:29,119
Speaker 2: We got one up outside of my bedroom. You can

2362
02:03:29,159 --> 02:03:32,279
look at. It's not in it. It's not as terribly

2363
02:03:32,439 --> 02:03:34,039
uncommon as we think.

2364
02:03:34,520 --> 02:03:41,800
Speaker 1: It's just it's so Texan law. Yeah, yeah, Texan is amazing. Yeah,

2365
02:03:41,840 --> 02:03:43,680
I've got a couple in my yard. I got a

2366
02:03:43,720 --> 02:03:45,600
couple that just germinated, but they take a while.

2367
02:03:45,880 --> 02:03:49,359
Speaker 2: There's a huge, nice population on Interstate thirty seven that's

2368
02:03:49,479 --> 02:03:50,239
very accessible.

2369
02:03:50,439 --> 02:03:50,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

2370
02:03:51,159 --> 02:03:55,479
Speaker 2: It just goes south from San Antonio and you'll go

2371
02:03:55,600 --> 02:03:58,680
about twenty miles and there will be a picnic area.

2372
02:03:59,119 --> 02:04:00,159
Speaker 1: Oh right, the.

2373
02:04:01,680 --> 02:04:01,960
Speaker 2: Area.

2374
02:04:02,239 --> 02:04:04,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's bulldozed for a lot of it.

2375
02:04:04,439 --> 02:04:07,760
Speaker 2: Then, well it's fortunately there's still some of it. It's

2376
02:04:07,840 --> 02:04:10,840
not in the media. It's you got to go across

2377
02:04:10,920 --> 02:04:13,520
the meeting. You got to run across the northbound lane

2378
02:04:13,880 --> 02:04:18,520
and on the on the east side, they're thirty individuals.

2379
02:04:19,199 --> 02:04:26,319
No ship as big around as that Iroquois wild rice basket.

2380
02:04:26,439 --> 02:04:28,560
It's splint sieve there to twice that die.

2381
02:04:28,720 --> 02:04:29,399
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

2382
02:04:29,520 --> 02:04:31,319
Speaker 2: But the mummers you got to go. You've got to

2383
02:04:31,399 --> 02:04:33,720
go as soon as the fruit for them. They don't

2384
02:04:33,800 --> 02:04:36,680
have to go net the hell out of there because

2385
02:04:37,560 --> 02:04:39,680
it's so hard to get fruit off of them because

2386
02:04:39,720 --> 02:04:42,600
the animals are on it so fast. Yeah, it's the

2387
02:04:42,640 --> 02:04:45,920
same thing like the Morse microphill of the little leaf mulberry.

2388
02:04:45,920 --> 02:04:48,039
You've got to tarp that is that good?

2389
02:04:48,119 --> 02:04:48,960
Speaker 1: That's got a good fruit.

2390
02:04:49,279 --> 02:04:52,039
Speaker 2: No, but so it does something to birds because they'll

2391
02:04:52,279 --> 02:04:55,399
kill for it. They eat it before it ever ripens.

2392
02:04:55,960 --> 02:04:57,479
Speaker 1: So it's good if you want to get it for

2393
02:04:58,399 --> 02:05:03,520
for wildlife. Yeah, have you You hadn't seen that Liatris Carazana,

2394
02:05:03,600 --> 02:05:05,199
that one I sent you pictures of yesterday.

2395
02:05:05,680 --> 02:05:07,439
Speaker 2: You know what I thought about that? And I looked

2396
02:05:07,479 --> 02:05:10,239
it up. I believe I've seen that in far East Texas.

2397
02:05:10,880 --> 02:05:12,760
Speaker 1: Really. Yeah, I don't know.

2398
02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:14,800
Speaker 2: That's a tall one.

2399
02:05:15,159 --> 02:05:18,640
Speaker 1: No, it's like two or three feet that might be bridges.

2400
02:05:19,119 --> 02:05:20,239
Bridges looks like that.

2401
02:05:20,520 --> 02:05:23,039
Speaker 2: There's a well friend of mine, Peter Leus, showed me

2402
02:05:23,159 --> 02:05:26,439
several late leatress in East Texas. Yeah, and they had

2403
02:05:26,520 --> 02:05:29,239
that more washed out. They weren't that brilliant purple like that.

2404
02:05:29,399 --> 02:05:30,520
Speaker 1: Yeah that thing.

2405
02:05:31,439 --> 02:05:34,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's there's some of those general you know

2406
02:05:34,279 --> 02:05:36,439
you're seeing you just you know, think of them of

2407
02:05:36,479 --> 02:05:39,039
always being in dry. No Lina is one. You start

2408
02:05:39,079 --> 02:05:41,159
looking at the floor of like Dixie, there's a bunch

2409
02:05:41,199 --> 02:05:44,880
of no Linas spread out through it. Mississippi, Alabama.

2410
02:05:45,359 --> 02:05:49,319
Speaker 1: Really wow, Yeah, you're like what, Yeah, No Lina's here. Yeah.

2411
02:05:50,520 --> 02:05:53,600
Do you do you have do you have any hope

2412
02:05:54,199 --> 02:05:57,000
for I mean, Texas has lost so much of its

2413
02:05:57,039 --> 02:05:59,760
flora and it's so off most people's radar? Do you

2414
02:05:59,800 --> 02:06:03,119
have hope and like native plant gardening and any kind

2415
02:06:03,119 --> 02:06:07,399
of restoration in the fucking people learning to hate lawns?

2416
02:06:07,960 --> 02:06:09,479
I mean I get a little now, you know.

2417
02:06:09,640 --> 02:06:14,479
Speaker 2: I really did if you'd ask me that question in

2418
02:06:14,680 --> 02:06:19,479
nineteen ninety eight, Yes, because as I used to tell

2419
02:06:19,560 --> 02:06:22,640
people who wanted me to pay for advertising, I would

2420
02:06:22,720 --> 02:06:24,840
laugh and say, I don't need any ever. All I

2421
02:06:24,920 --> 02:06:26,840
need is the people is we'll got their windows in

2422
02:06:26,920 --> 02:06:29,960
March in April, and they'll they'll find me out if

2423
02:06:29,960 --> 02:06:31,920
they've moved here. They'll go, No, why would I use

2424
02:06:32,000 --> 02:06:35,319
something else that is incredible. I just saw a thousand

2425
02:06:35,439 --> 02:06:38,920
penceman Kobe is mixed in with two species of wine cup,

2426
02:06:39,840 --> 02:06:42,119
and you know, it doesn't get much better than that.

2427
02:06:42,359 --> 02:06:45,479
But that's all gone. Now you see two or three

2428
02:06:46,800 --> 02:06:52,239
pensaman kobe is. There's nothing and the cell phones. People

2429
02:06:52,359 --> 02:06:55,119
are glued to their phones. They're not looking out the window.

2430
02:06:55,159 --> 02:06:59,000
They they they don't even want to drive anymore. They

2431
02:06:59,079 --> 02:07:02,640
want to turn some machine on, take an app while

2432
02:07:02,640 --> 02:07:04,880
their car drives, while they pollute the atmosphere.

2433
02:07:05,439 --> 02:07:07,520
Speaker 1: I don't think that's going to work long term.

2434
02:07:07,960 --> 02:07:10,199
Speaker 2: No, I think that liability issues.

2435
02:07:10,279 --> 02:07:12,520
Speaker 1: I wonder. I wonder where. I wonder where the car

2436
02:07:12,640 --> 02:07:14,880
culture is going to go because it's such a miserab

2437
02:07:14,880 --> 02:07:17,359
way to live, and you know people, I talk to

2438
02:07:17,399 --> 02:07:20,239
all these people, and you'll see this on social media pages.

2439
02:07:20,319 --> 02:07:21,880
Like I was. I was miserable in the US. I

2440
02:07:21,960 --> 02:07:23,399
was working too much. I was trapped in a car.

2441
02:07:23,479 --> 02:07:26,000
I moved to Europe. I could walk everywhere, take public

2442
02:07:26,079 --> 02:07:30,359
transit every day. Was a different adventure. I lost fucking

2443
02:07:30,399 --> 02:07:32,840
fifteen pounds immediately because I wasn't trapped sitting down all

2444
02:07:32,880 --> 02:07:35,000
the time. I think at some point people are going

2445
02:07:35,079 --> 02:07:36,640
to catch on this is fucked.

2446
02:07:36,960 --> 02:07:40,199
Speaker 2: This is a fun I had hopes in the eighties

2447
02:07:40,239 --> 02:07:44,560
and nineties. I really you know, knew guy running for

2448
02:07:44,680 --> 02:07:46,600
mayor of Austin, and I told him to run on

2449
02:07:46,680 --> 02:07:49,800
two platforms. This was just as they ever learned they

2450
02:07:49,840 --> 02:07:53,479
were going to close Muller Airport. And I said to missive,

2451
02:07:53,560 --> 02:07:55,720
you run on two issues. You're going to use the

2452
02:07:55,800 --> 02:07:58,720
old Muller Airport as the next Hollywood. You got like

2453
02:07:58,840 --> 02:08:02,920
fifty sixty acres your flat land with prairie and trees

2454
02:08:02,960 --> 02:08:06,279
and all those big buildings to fix airplanes. You got

2455
02:08:06,359 --> 02:08:09,520
all for sound stages. And wouldn't you rather be stuck

2456
02:08:09,520 --> 02:08:12,960
in traffic next to Sandra Bullock or Brad Pitt then

2457
02:08:13,840 --> 02:08:16,079
you know some yeehaw from Georgetown.

2458
02:08:16,079 --> 02:08:16,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't care about it.

2459
02:08:17,000 --> 02:08:19,279
Speaker 2: And and then the other thing is we need to start,

2460
02:08:19,439 --> 02:08:22,279
you know, a subway under the metro area in the

2461
02:08:22,359 --> 02:08:26,760
limestone and then pop up like it's swater lane and

2462
02:08:26,880 --> 02:08:28,399
hit the open rails on the top.

2463
02:08:28,560 --> 02:08:30,000
Speaker 1: If you try to do, if you try to do

2464
02:08:30,319 --> 02:08:33,199
in Texas, they think it was a globalist takeover. There'd

2465
02:08:33,239 --> 02:08:34,920
be so many people that thought it was some sort

2466
02:08:34,920 --> 02:08:36,399
of conspiratory people.

2467
02:08:36,479 --> 02:08:38,920
Speaker 2: I can't go to Austin anymore. It's too too, it's

2468
02:08:39,079 --> 02:08:41,520
just too disturbing. I can't I can't burn some.

2469
02:08:41,640 --> 02:08:44,840
Speaker 1: Twenty five year old kid making six figures designing apps

2470
02:08:44,920 --> 02:08:49,279
for a fucking fun like a fucking smart.

2471
02:08:49,800 --> 02:08:53,479
Speaker 2: Shut growing up, wanting to aspiring to be an influencer.

2472
02:08:53,680 --> 02:08:55,920
Speaker 1: Everything's expensive as fun though too. That's the thing about

2473
02:08:55,960 --> 02:08:58,720
Austin that's nuts is you're getting ribbed. And I understand

2474
02:08:58,720 --> 02:09:01,199
they're shaking down these fucking techy kids, so they're shaking

2475
02:09:01,279 --> 02:09:03,640
down you too. Everything's a rip off. I just got

2476
02:09:03,680 --> 02:09:05,880
a ninety five dollars parking ticket. I'm not going to

2477
02:09:05,960 --> 02:09:08,520
pay for taking my little girl to go, you know,

2478
02:09:08,640 --> 02:09:11,680
watch the bats. Uh And it was like a private

2479
02:09:12,039 --> 02:09:15,039
company that's doing the parking now too, which is an automatic, Like,

2480
02:09:15,119 --> 02:09:17,520
oh you don't have to pay that fuck them, but uh,

2481
02:09:18,039 --> 02:09:21,600
you know, I don't know. It's just they Austin's fucking weird.

2482
02:09:22,479 --> 02:09:23,760
Not trying to get to negative.

2483
02:09:23,800 --> 02:09:27,239
Speaker 2: Everybody says in Austin in the good old days, you know.

2484
02:09:27,279 --> 02:09:29,239
And I remember going to Austin in the seventies, and

2485
02:09:29,800 --> 02:09:33,600
you know, when the it was it was a fun

2486
02:09:33,680 --> 02:09:36,760
play right here, you know, and so forth, and it

2487
02:09:37,000 --> 02:09:39,399
lasted up until the early eighties. But by the time

2488
02:09:39,520 --> 02:09:44,399
I moved here in eighty five eighty six, the you know,

2489
02:09:44,560 --> 02:09:46,920
were the only rush hour problems we had in Austin

2490
02:09:47,680 --> 02:09:51,199
up until the mid eighties. Was it was it ten

2491
02:09:51,279 --> 02:09:54,159
after three to three thirty when the mothers were going

2492
02:09:54,239 --> 02:09:55,800
and picking their kids up at school. That was the

2493
02:09:55,880 --> 02:09:58,600
only time the interstate locked up. Yeah, and it was

2494
02:09:58,680 --> 02:10:02,399
only for fifteen twenty minutes. Now it's just a It

2495
02:10:02,560 --> 02:10:04,960
starts in Kyle and goes through Georgetown.

2496
02:10:05,119 --> 02:10:08,840
Speaker 1: Right, Well, everyone's trapped driving again. There's no alternative.

2497
02:10:08,920 --> 02:10:10,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know where I'll go when I sell

2498
02:10:10,479 --> 02:10:12,520
my nineteen acres here, but.

2499
02:10:14,119 --> 02:10:15,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. Mexico might be an ISO.

2500
02:10:16,399 --> 02:10:18,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I have to live with someplace that has

2501
02:10:19,760 --> 02:10:21,000
a semblance of law.

2502
02:10:22,000 --> 02:10:24,079
Speaker 1: Yeah that might. I mean, yeah, that's true. But you

2503
02:10:24,199 --> 02:10:26,760
never you never know, you never know how things might

2504
02:10:26,920 --> 02:10:30,359
change there. I mean, we'll see how the fucking US,

2505
02:10:30,680 --> 02:10:33,439
the US might be added for a lack of lawyers.

2506
02:10:33,640 --> 02:10:36,600
Who knows, man, you get like civil unrest, all the

2507
02:10:36,960 --> 02:10:39,159
hyper partisan divisions here there.

2508
02:10:39,319 --> 02:10:41,600
Speaker 2: You know, it's i'd say, enough to make you buy

2509
02:10:41,600 --> 02:10:41,880
a gun.

2510
02:10:42,039 --> 02:10:45,159
Speaker 1: So that's how the oligarchs get everybody off their back.

2511
02:10:45,239 --> 02:10:50,560
You get people fighting each other over dumb shit and anyway, Yeah.

2512
02:10:50,720 --> 02:10:58,279
Speaker 2: I'm really overall, I'm extremely pessimistic about the ecological future

2513
02:10:58,560 --> 02:11:04,000
of central UH and UH Texas. I'm not terribly worried

2514
02:11:04,000 --> 02:11:09,439
about far West Texas. East Texas I think is probably

2515
02:11:09,560 --> 02:11:13,399
going to be pretty much determined by the future of Houston,

2516
02:11:13,560 --> 02:11:17,079
which I think is very dubious due to its low altitude.

2517
02:11:17,119 --> 02:11:18,640
Speaker 1: It's going to get increasing water.

2518
02:11:19,920 --> 02:11:22,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think people are finally going to have to

2519
02:11:22,640 --> 02:11:27,319
say I can't do business here anymore. It's a great

2520
02:11:27,399 --> 02:11:30,399
place to refine oil because you can wash all your

2521
02:11:30,479 --> 02:11:36,199
stuff out to see, you know, every August, see in

2522
02:11:36,279 --> 02:11:38,880
the gates and let the drums float away, right, Yeah,

2523
02:11:40,039 --> 02:11:42,119
just have the cruise go out and spray them with

2524
02:11:42,279 --> 02:11:43,079
pant removers.

2525
02:11:43,119 --> 02:11:46,680
Speaker 1: So about West Texas, you have to worry about West No,

2526
02:11:48,439 --> 02:11:51,520
this boutique goes out there, you know.

2527
02:11:51,840 --> 02:11:57,479
Speaker 2: But that's uh Well, the biggest, my biggest probably West

2528
02:11:57,479 --> 02:12:05,720
Texas has been the Tilingua area that's getting and we

2529
02:12:05,840 --> 02:12:08,600
all after those tear ter Lingual ranches years ago. But

2530
02:12:08,720 --> 02:12:11,760
to see how many people have actually moved out, get.

2531
02:12:11,640 --> 02:12:14,560
Speaker 1: Your bona fide desert experience. They just feel so at

2532
02:12:14,600 --> 02:12:15,640
home in the desert, right.

2533
02:12:15,640 --> 02:12:19,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, come down and try that bacon heat and uh,

2534
02:12:19,720 --> 02:12:22,600
don't worry about those guys with those sacks over their

2535
02:12:22,640 --> 02:12:25,239
shoulders walking.

2536
02:12:25,399 --> 02:12:28,920
Speaker 1: Or the lack of water, yes, the lack of water

2537
02:12:29,079 --> 02:12:31,840
and so incredibly dressed a lot of.

2538
02:12:31,840 --> 02:12:34,239
Speaker 2: Law enforcement, but they're not interested in you because you

2539
02:12:34,359 --> 02:12:37,920
belong here. They don't have time to cuff the guy,

2540
02:12:38,079 --> 02:12:39,319
you know, breaking into your head.

2541
02:12:39,359 --> 02:12:42,039
Speaker 1: I mean they're still fucking with people out there west

2542
02:12:42,079 --> 02:12:45,279
the Sierra Blanca and harassing people. We're here. Someone was

2543
02:12:45,319 --> 02:12:48,600
getting They're still busting people for weed and some where

2544
02:12:48,760 --> 02:12:50,359
was it man I Presidio Countie.

2545
02:12:50,359 --> 02:12:54,880
Speaker 2: I think well, I mean out their law enforcement is

2546
02:12:54,920 --> 02:12:59,399
primarily federal, so well, I don't have a choice. They

2547
02:12:59,439 --> 02:13:00,279
want to keep their job.

2548
02:13:00,439 --> 02:13:03,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, but wasting time on I mean, come on, man,

2549
02:13:03,319 --> 02:13:04,720
there was no there was a sheriff. There was a

2550
02:13:04,800 --> 02:13:06,880
sheriff at Serra Blanca that was fucking with people for

2551
02:13:07,880 --> 02:13:11,239
for we they used to be a really hot border

2552
02:13:11,319 --> 02:13:15,039
inspection or cut you know, border patrol checkpoint, just busting

2553
02:13:15,079 --> 02:13:17,720
people for wheed. All these like Willie Nelson got busted

2554
02:13:17,800 --> 02:13:21,000
there or you know, whatever the fuck. I just waste

2555
02:13:21,000 --> 02:13:22,880
the time. But it's it's weird. Man. I don't know,

2556
02:13:22,960 --> 02:13:24,239
I don't know where things are going to go. But

2557
02:13:24,319 --> 02:13:27,039
I'm again, I'm just I'm so interested in the plants here,

2558
02:13:27,119 --> 02:13:29,039
and there's so many cool species.

2559
02:13:29,119 --> 02:13:31,560
Speaker 2: Well, it's a shame, as I've told Michael again, Anyhare,

2560
02:13:31,800 --> 02:13:34,359
it's a shame you weren't Michael wasn't into this before

2561
02:13:34,439 --> 02:13:38,720
two thousand, when the wildflowers were still the last last

2562
02:13:38,920 --> 02:13:41,239
vestige of them were holding on. You need to read

2563
02:13:41,319 --> 02:13:44,439
through some of these diaries I've got from the eighteen

2564
02:13:44,520 --> 02:13:49,039
fifties and eighteen eighties about oh my god, this is

2565
02:13:49,359 --> 02:13:53,000
like the smell the collars. It just goes on as

2566
02:13:53,039 --> 02:13:54,199
far as the eye can say.

2567
02:13:54,359 --> 02:13:57,439
Speaker 1: I mean, you get that in get that in California

2568
02:13:57,520 --> 02:14:00,760
where there's a good amount of public lands protected Carrizo

2569
02:14:00,840 --> 02:14:02,680
playing National monuments.

2570
02:14:04,479 --> 02:14:04,720
Speaker 2: Out.

2571
02:14:05,720 --> 02:14:09,359
Speaker 1: But uh, that's that's again, that's again the public private

2572
02:14:09,439 --> 02:14:11,359
land thing. And you tell people about it like I

2573
02:14:11,439 --> 02:14:13,119
pot I made a post on social media. But is

2574
02:14:13,159 --> 02:14:15,880
it pissed off some of these empty headed nitwits who

2575
02:14:15,960 --> 02:14:19,359
had never all generally men from Texas, who had never

2576
02:14:19,520 --> 02:14:22,560
known anything different, who were just what's wrong? We are

2577
02:14:22,600 --> 02:14:25,039
you good starting land? I'm not against owning land at all.

2578
02:14:25,159 --> 02:14:27,800
It's you don't understand how abnormal it is for ninety

2579
02:14:27,880 --> 02:14:30,319
nine percent of a state's land to be locked up

2580
02:14:30,359 --> 02:14:34,279
and inaccessible to the people that fucking live I defending

2581
02:14:34,359 --> 02:14:35,319
the people are the.

2582
02:14:35,479 --> 02:14:39,439
Speaker 2: History of the way Texas came into the Union. We

2583
02:14:39,680 --> 02:14:46,520
are the only state that came that was an independent country. Yeah, beforehand,

2584
02:14:46,680 --> 02:14:47,439
and that's just.

2585
02:14:48,880 --> 02:14:51,560
Speaker 1: You know that was but not even that long. It

2586
02:14:51,640 --> 02:14:53,640
wasn't even an independent country that long. It was for

2587
02:14:53,800 --> 02:14:57,880
like twenty I mean it was between eighteen thirty seven to.

2588
02:14:58,479 --> 02:15:02,760
Speaker 2: Eighteen forty eight, eighteen forty No, that was brought in

2589
02:15:03,000 --> 02:15:03,840
eighteen forty six.

2590
02:15:04,279 --> 02:15:07,199
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so shit, even nineteen years. It was a

2591
02:15:07,239 --> 02:15:08,119
country for nine years.

2592
02:15:08,159 --> 02:15:11,479
Speaker 2: So all this and Anson Jones, our last president, killed himself.

2593
02:15:11,159 --> 02:15:13,159
Speaker 1: Shortly nine years is the blink of an eye. And

2594
02:15:13,199 --> 02:15:16,800
these people talk about, you know this, we're an independent country,

2595
02:15:16,920 --> 02:15:20,640
my ass. You guys do it from the fucking Mexican you.

2596
02:15:20,680 --> 02:15:23,079
Speaker 2: Know they you know what the what England and France

2597
02:15:23,359 --> 02:15:24,640
were interested about us for?

2598
02:15:25,159 --> 02:15:26,640
Speaker 1: What was that? Oh?

2599
02:15:26,680 --> 02:15:29,680
Speaker 2: I have to find the passage for you. This was

2600
02:15:29,800 --> 02:15:33,760
before they were we were formally recognized. The emissary from

2601
02:15:33,880 --> 02:15:39,159
France sees his u twin from Britain. They're on the

2602
02:15:39,239 --> 02:15:41,680
Brasses River and one's on one side and one's on

2603
02:15:41,840 --> 02:15:43,880
the other, and they see one another in a way

2604
02:15:44,680 --> 02:15:46,439
get up, and of course the Brasses was a real

2605
02:15:46,560 --> 02:15:49,359
river then. So one of them is a good swimmer.

2606
02:15:49,479 --> 02:15:52,319
He takes his clothes off, ties up and it's you know,

2607
02:15:52,680 --> 02:15:55,239
swims across, but it's just clean. Drys Off puts his

2608
02:15:55,319 --> 02:15:57,159
clothes back on. They're like, what the hell are you doing?

2609
02:15:57,239 --> 02:16:00,720
You know what we're doing here, like you tis. They

2610
02:16:00,760 --> 02:16:03,840
were here to look at how many live oak trees

2611
02:16:03,920 --> 02:16:10,159
there were. Why because live oak was what was used

2612
02:16:10,279 --> 02:16:13,720
and is still used for the keel of all wooden

2613
02:16:14,119 --> 02:16:18,680
hulled boats, because it is so strong and so flexed.

2614
02:16:18,720 --> 02:16:22,840
So and as both of them said, there's no point

2615
02:16:22,920 --> 02:16:27,159
in either of us walking another foot upstream. This supply

2616
02:16:27,760 --> 02:16:32,079
because most people don't know this, but by like the

2617
02:16:32,159 --> 02:16:35,959
eighteen twenties, we'd exhausted all the big oak trees on

2618
02:16:36,079 --> 02:16:41,559
the eastern seaboard that weren't like, you know, framing somebody's

2619
02:16:41,879 --> 02:16:45,079
mansion sort of shit. They were no longer you know,

2620
02:16:45,520 --> 02:16:49,920
an abundant resource. And as the two emissaries said it,

2621
02:16:50,000 --> 02:16:52,799
that's pretty much right the same letter back to our

2622
02:16:52,879 --> 02:16:58,399
governments that this is pointless. There is an inexhaustible supply

2623
02:16:59,079 --> 02:17:03,239
of live oak in Texas all alone, to supply the

2624
02:17:03,360 --> 02:17:07,799
navies of the world for all time. Yes, it's more

2625
02:17:07,959 --> 02:17:10,959
here than could possibly be used.

2626
02:17:12,799 --> 02:17:15,520
Speaker 1: So that they were just in a lumber excursion. I

2627
02:17:15,639 --> 02:17:17,520
boke in particular lumber scout.

2628
02:17:17,639 --> 02:17:19,120
Speaker 2: You know, you see a lot of our trees just

2629
02:17:19,200 --> 02:17:23,760
be flighting a this. But the Texas per Simmons, they

2630
02:17:23,879 --> 02:17:25,920
used to be like this big round and it had

2631
02:17:25,959 --> 02:17:29,040
this center part. It was this brilliant, beautiful evance.

2632
02:17:29,079 --> 02:17:30,280
Speaker 1: Those can get three.

2633
02:17:31,239 --> 02:17:35,440
Speaker 2: It takes a long time. Unfortunately, when the lithographs came

2634
02:17:35,479 --> 02:17:37,959
out for newspapers, it was found that that wood was

2635
02:17:38,000 --> 02:17:42,200
the best for making the print for the photographs, and

2636
02:17:42,319 --> 02:17:44,719
it only took ten years.

2637
02:17:44,799 --> 02:17:47,360
Speaker 1: Can you see all growth of Texas simon anywhere?

2638
02:17:47,920 --> 02:17:51,239
Speaker 2: Everything was so valuable. Everyone was cut down. That showed

2639
02:17:51,280 --> 02:17:52,920
that dark wood down to like you know, if it

2640
02:17:53,000 --> 02:17:54,639
had an inch of it down it went.

2641
02:17:55,280 --> 02:17:56,399
Speaker 1: It's like where all of our.

2642
02:17:58,559 --> 02:18:03,639
Speaker 2: Acinacious went. The Aconasia, the narrow leaf one was one

2643
02:18:03,680 --> 02:18:06,280
of our most abundant wildflowers up until the turn of

2644
02:18:06,319 --> 02:18:09,040
the you know, eighteen ninety five to nineteen oh five

2645
02:18:09,159 --> 02:18:13,639
when it was touted as a herbal remedy for the

2646
02:18:13,760 --> 02:18:18,520
flu and so forth. It was bush. Yeah, totally bullshit.

2647
02:18:18,680 --> 02:18:20,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't do anything, but the.

2648
02:18:20,639 --> 02:18:22,799
Speaker 2: Kids were getting paid, and you know, a few pennies

2649
02:18:22,840 --> 02:18:25,079
for every dry pound they brought in, so they were

2650
02:18:25,200 --> 02:18:27,760
just went out in all their spare time ripping it up.

2651
02:18:28,200 --> 02:18:30,079
Speaker 1: The horn lizards are gone. Did you see what you were?

2652
02:18:30,159 --> 02:18:30,440
You see?

2653
02:18:30,680 --> 02:18:33,040
Speaker 2: Oh that was I moved here. It was a year

2654
02:18:33,319 --> 02:18:37,719
after the horn lizards disappeared. I moved here. I had

2655
02:18:37,840 --> 02:18:44,600
harvest ramp mounts everywhere. Within ten years. I had one

2656
02:18:44,760 --> 02:18:48,120
left that I carefully guarded over here, and I used

2657
02:18:48,120 --> 02:18:48,879
to go out.

2658
02:18:49,239 --> 02:18:50,680
Speaker 1: We wiped my fire ants soon.

2659
02:18:53,440 --> 02:18:55,520
Speaker 2: You know, the fire ant people came here at the

2660
02:18:55,639 --> 02:19:00,920
US survey, Yeah, they were it. Well. I don't know

2661
02:19:00,920 --> 02:19:04,079
how you'll take this, but congratulations, you have the highest

2662
02:19:04,159 --> 02:19:08,079
fiery intensity anywhere we've measured in the United States. I

2663
02:19:08,159 --> 02:19:11,600
had over twenty two five hundred pounds an acre. There

2664
02:19:11,680 --> 02:19:14,840
was a mound like every other every two square feet.

2665
02:19:16,639 --> 02:19:19,399
The first three years I lived here, you couldn't leave

2666
02:19:19,520 --> 02:19:22,559
any food out for more than ten twelve minutes, otherwise

2667
02:19:22,559 --> 02:19:24,559
there'd be a three inch column of ants coming in

2668
02:19:24,639 --> 02:19:27,360
through the window and a three inch column going out

2669
02:19:27,440 --> 02:19:30,840
with stuff holding it up in their jaws, and you

2670
02:19:31,159 --> 02:19:34,040
just instinctively developed this reflex that when you felt that

2671
02:19:34,200 --> 02:19:37,479
soft ground, you just jumped. And as I tell people

2672
02:19:37,600 --> 02:19:40,360
that we're moving here, yeah, it's the first ten fifteen

2673
02:19:40,440 --> 02:19:42,959
thousand stings settle body after that, and you'll kind of

2674
02:19:42,959 --> 02:19:43,719
get used to them.

2675
02:19:46,319 --> 02:19:49,040
Speaker 1: But they wiped out a lot of the harvesters.

2676
02:19:48,639 --> 02:19:52,120
Speaker 2: You know. Oh yeah, And I don't know why they

2677
02:19:52,280 --> 02:19:54,680
haven't come back. I see them because you know, you

2678
02:19:54,799 --> 02:19:57,840
see more of them as you go west. But it

2679
02:19:57,959 --> 02:19:59,120
makes no sense because.

2680
02:19:58,879 --> 02:20:02,000
Speaker 1: That was there was horn lizards everywhere, and.

2681
02:20:02,680 --> 02:20:06,079
Speaker 2: There were horn lizards everywhere in Texas and that was

2682
02:20:06,159 --> 02:20:09,719
what they ate. That was their favorite fixation food with

2683
02:20:09,799 --> 02:20:13,399
harvester ants. But I just think it was the gradual

2684
02:20:15,639 --> 02:20:20,399
disappearance of the bulk of our flora that just deprived

2685
02:20:20,440 --> 02:20:24,040
them enough food sources throughout the season to maintain an

2686
02:20:24,200 --> 02:20:29,399
orderly uh life, because you know, we used to have

2687
02:20:29,520 --> 02:20:33,760
the other thing that moves plants, and the leaf cutting

2688
02:20:33,760 --> 02:20:39,639
ants were horrific here, just horrific. But between the droughts

2689
02:20:39,760 --> 02:20:43,959
really get to the horn no, but they would really

2690
02:20:44,159 --> 02:20:47,520
cause damage and nurseries and people's lawns and so forth.

2691
02:20:47,879 --> 02:20:50,200
But you know, they would almost always build their nests

2692
02:20:50,440 --> 02:20:54,200
along like dry creeks, long linear nests.

2693
02:20:54,440 --> 02:20:55,639
Speaker 1: They're native though, I mean.

2694
02:20:58,120 --> 02:21:02,120
Speaker 2: Department of Texas. Department of used to recommend you going

2695
02:21:02,200 --> 02:21:04,479
up with a piece of rebar poking a hole in

2696
02:21:04,520 --> 02:21:08,719
their nest and then pouring in like four ounces of

2697
02:21:09,040 --> 02:21:12,200
dichloro methane and that every.

2698
02:21:12,760 --> 02:21:16,360
Speaker 1: Pretty text get killed. Yeah, that's crazy. Along the waterways

2699
02:21:17,079 --> 02:21:18,840
just poisoning. So what would that do to the water

2700
02:21:20,000 --> 02:21:21,719
right into themison heavy gas?

2701
02:21:23,479 --> 02:21:26,120
Speaker 2: I mean, you know it'll boil it ninety two degrees.

2702
02:21:25,879 --> 02:21:27,959
Speaker 1: Or what Again, the state is just nuts with the

2703
02:21:28,040 --> 02:21:32,559
fucking the land management and the completely ecologically illiterate.

2704
02:21:33,000 --> 02:21:38,799
Speaker 2: Just when we had that flood in ninety eight, I

2705
02:21:39,040 --> 02:21:41,840
remarked to myself as I was flooded out of my

2706
02:21:41,959 --> 02:21:46,120
house for a few nights, that every rancher in this

2707
02:21:46,280 --> 02:21:49,239
part of the country has just used this as an excuse.

2708
02:21:49,360 --> 02:21:52,879
They just went and opened all their shed doors and

2709
02:21:53,040 --> 02:21:55,799
let that rising water carry and it took the tops

2710
02:21:55,840 --> 02:21:58,280
off of all those containers. They didn't even know what

2711
02:21:58,399 --> 02:22:02,079
the hell was in them anymore. And just see you

2712
02:22:02,520 --> 02:22:05,680
see you in the Gulf of Mexico. It's gonna get

2713
02:22:05,719 --> 02:22:09,479
there anyway. I made comments to a bunch of these

2714
02:22:09,559 --> 02:22:11,719
old ranchers I know, and they kind of would look

2715
02:22:11,760 --> 02:22:15,159
down and then smile and go, yeah, I'm one of them. Boy,

2716
02:22:15,200 --> 02:22:17,479
it was great. I got rid of so many years

2717
02:22:17,559 --> 02:22:21,120
of using motor oil, all sorts of weird sexticis and

2718
02:22:21,159 --> 02:22:22,760
stuff they were legally shipped to possess.

2719
02:22:23,120 --> 02:22:25,120
Speaker 1: So fuck, I just so fun.

2720
02:22:25,239 --> 02:22:27,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not paying twenty thousand bucks to have this

2721
02:22:28,120 --> 02:22:32,719
incinerated and potential legal action for having chlorin. I just

2722
02:22:32,799 --> 02:22:34,760
took the top off and threw it in the I

2723
02:22:34,959 --> 02:22:36,399
was standing knee deep in water.

2724
02:22:36,479 --> 02:22:38,079
Speaker 1: Do you think, I mean, do you why is no

2725
02:22:38,159 --> 02:22:40,399
why has no one really been growing any of these

2726
02:22:40,520 --> 02:22:44,639
rare plants? Here? No market promoting them market and people

2727
02:22:44,680 --> 02:22:46,879
don't know that. It's people don't know about it because

2728
02:22:46,879 --> 02:22:48,000
they can't see it yet.

2729
02:22:48,200 --> 02:22:50,799
Speaker 2: That see, now, that's what which a gun goes back.

2730
02:22:50,719 --> 02:22:51,840
Speaker 1: To not being able to access the.

2731
02:22:51,799 --> 02:22:56,440
Speaker 2: Fucking My business had finally really got in really a

2732
02:22:56,600 --> 02:23:00,360
real business by ninety eight. I mean I had, you know,

2733
02:23:01,079 --> 02:23:03,959
nurseries calling and buying them. You have fifty of these

2734
02:23:04,200 --> 02:23:07,639
one hundred of those this and that grasses had finally

2735
02:23:07,760 --> 02:23:11,079
taken off. I was getting large orders from tex Doc

2736
02:23:11,200 --> 02:23:15,079
to these golf courses, to the developers for the gates

2737
02:23:15,159 --> 02:23:22,719
and stuff. And then when the wildflowers disappeared, it just just.

2738
02:23:24,360 --> 02:23:25,959
Speaker 1: Because people couldn't see it anymore.

2739
02:23:26,079 --> 02:23:28,879
Speaker 2: Yep as I used to you know, that's what you know.

2740
02:23:29,079 --> 02:23:32,280
I remember my motto being keeping Texas looking like Texas.

2741
02:23:32,440 --> 02:23:34,600
That was kind of like, I better find a new motto.

2742
02:23:35,280 --> 02:23:36,920
That doesn't work in shift. It doesn't.

2743
02:23:37,239 --> 02:23:39,600
Speaker 1: They don't even know what Texas looks like anymore.

2744
02:23:40,079 --> 02:23:43,319
Speaker 2: It's thank god, it looks like the green sprangle tops.

2745
02:23:43,399 --> 02:23:46,319
Time has come, though, I'm starty, what is that greenp.

2746
02:23:46,760 --> 02:23:49,719
Speaker 1: Leptochlorus studio that invasive grass or what?

2747
02:23:49,959 --> 02:23:52,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was brought in probably I'm thinking nineteen oh

2748
02:23:52,879 --> 02:23:55,799
six on the King Ranch down in their entry point

2749
02:23:56,360 --> 02:23:59,760
on baff And Bay. It hunkered down there for thirty

2750
02:24:00,040 --> 02:24:03,719
thirty five years and slowly moved out because it was

2751
02:24:04,079 --> 02:24:07,200
uncommon on our roadsides when I was in grad school

2752
02:24:07,239 --> 02:24:09,840
in the early eighties, but by nineteen ninety five it

2753
02:24:10,000 --> 02:24:12,440
was ubiquitous, and by two thousand and five, when you

2754
02:24:12,520 --> 02:24:16,159
looked out the interstate from Georgetown to San Antonio in October,

2755
02:24:16,879 --> 02:24:20,959
it was covering ninety percent plus of all the fields

2756
02:24:21,000 --> 02:24:23,559
in front of these cement planetss. It does look beautiful

2757
02:24:23,600 --> 02:24:25,680
and mass. It'd be three feet tall and had this

2758
02:24:25,840 --> 02:24:29,079
purplish cast to the seed had blown in the wind,

2759
02:24:29,239 --> 02:24:31,959
but now and it would just come in it killed everything.

2760
02:24:31,639 --> 02:24:34,840
Speaker 1: In its When did buffalo come in? And why well, those.

2761
02:24:34,719 --> 02:24:38,920
Speaker 2: Grasses came in very early and pretty much you know,

2762
02:24:39,040 --> 02:24:41,760
it's never really been able to stick. Well, hey, you'll

2763
02:24:41,840 --> 02:24:46,760
find it. Surprisingly surprisingly it had a gross burning made

2764
02:24:46,799 --> 02:24:51,600
it up to like three rivers, but it's pretty much

2765
02:24:52,239 --> 02:24:53,399
been sporadic.

2766
02:24:53,719 --> 02:24:54,719
Speaker 1: There who keeps it down?

2767
02:24:54,760 --> 02:24:55,200
Speaker 2: A freeze?

2768
02:24:55,399 --> 02:24:56,799
Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, a freeze.

2769
02:24:57,840 --> 02:24:59,840
Speaker 2: But boy, down in South Teestas, it still is a

2770
02:25:00,239 --> 02:25:02,479
but you got that. I'll never forget. I was with

2771
02:25:02,600 --> 02:25:04,559
a friend from Arizona and he saw that was a

2772
02:25:04,639 --> 02:25:05,639
guinea grass.

2773
02:25:07,920 --> 02:25:08,200
Speaker 1: Shade.

2774
02:25:09,520 --> 02:25:12,200
Speaker 2: I thought he was going to have it literally die.

2775
02:25:12,319 --> 02:25:15,479
He was so angry, he couldn't breathe was he was

2776
02:25:15,639 --> 02:25:16,520
like a stop.

2777
02:25:16,280 --> 02:25:18,319
Speaker 1: Because he knew what the last kame looked like before,

2778
02:25:18,479 --> 02:25:20,639
Like I know what this does. I can't believe because

2779
02:25:20,639 --> 02:25:21,799
he knew what it looked like before.

2780
02:25:22,159 --> 02:25:24,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, he said, I've seen what this is done. To Arizona.

2781
02:25:24,799 --> 02:25:26,440
Oh my god, what idiot brought it?

2782
02:25:26,639 --> 02:25:29,319
Speaker 1: Why? Why does the ranching industry plant this non native

2783
02:25:29,319 --> 02:25:33,479
ship when there's so many native grasses that it's just

2784
02:25:33,520 --> 02:25:34,639
ship was a.

2785
02:25:34,719 --> 02:25:37,559
Speaker 2: King Ranch seat and this woman came in. She wanted

2786
02:25:39,280 --> 02:25:44,520
fifty pounds of King Ranch blue snow and the people

2787
02:25:44,639 --> 02:25:46,920
there home. But what is it?

2788
02:25:47,000 --> 02:25:47,639
Speaker 1: What's the name of that?

2789
02:25:47,760 --> 02:25:47,840
Speaker 2: Is that?

2790
02:25:47,920 --> 02:25:48,079
Speaker 1: A y?

2791
02:25:48,719 --> 02:25:50,879
Speaker 2: No? No, no, oh God, you hadn't asked me. I

2792
02:25:50,920 --> 02:25:52,799
could have told you at the top of him, I'll

2793
02:25:52,799 --> 02:25:56,840
look it up. It's not God as the guys kind

2794
02:25:56,879 --> 02:25:59,280
of looked at me and like you want to go ahead?

2795
02:25:59,319 --> 02:26:02,520
Will disappear for a minute, Dan, And I was like, ma'am,

2796
02:26:02,639 --> 02:26:05,440
I really don't think you want to grow that. She said, oh,

2797
02:26:05,600 --> 02:26:07,479
it does so well. I said, yes, it does, but

2798
02:26:07,559 --> 02:26:10,959
it's non native. It's invasive, and it's very very poor

2799
02:26:11,079 --> 02:26:14,680
grace for your animals. So unless you're trying to prevent

2800
02:26:14,879 --> 02:26:18,600
some sloughing off of some you know, land into a

2801
02:26:18,719 --> 02:26:21,760
river creek, when I can suggest a bunch of other

2802
02:26:21,840 --> 02:26:24,319
grasses that are native, they will do a much better

2803
02:26:24,479 --> 02:26:30,319
job than that. But I wouldn't put that out for hey, grace,

2804
02:26:31,159 --> 02:26:35,760
it's it's it's not it's nowhere a good idea?

2805
02:26:37,600 --> 02:26:39,360
Speaker 1: What is What are some good native grasses?

2806
02:26:39,440 --> 02:26:42,559
Speaker 2: They well, the best was what was what brought people?

2807
02:26:42,639 --> 02:26:46,600
And it's replete in all of the immigrant guides from

2808
02:26:46,680 --> 02:26:50,200
the eighteen thirties to the Civil Wars. What they used

2809
02:26:50,200 --> 02:26:56,120
to call mesquite grass, which is the uh oh, it's

2810
02:26:56,159 --> 02:27:01,319
in that m god. See, I just don't talk bodny anymore.

2811
02:27:01,440 --> 02:27:02,399
Speaker 1: Curlys is it?

2812
02:27:02,879 --> 02:27:06,520
Speaker 2: Well? They know it's uh God, you still see it.

2813
02:27:06,639 --> 02:27:11,600
It's still here. It's not interpolgan. What is it? Oh?

2814
02:27:11,680 --> 02:27:15,600
I left all those books at my house. Oh, it's

2815
02:27:15,639 --> 02:27:23,120
a huge uh. It forms these these stolens. I remember growing.

2816
02:27:23,159 --> 02:27:29,159
I grew an it goes. Let me tell you. I

2817
02:27:29,239 --> 02:27:33,440
grew one hundred one gallon once from scene and inside

2818
02:27:33,680 --> 02:27:37,760
of eight weeks the stolens were up to twenty feet

2819
02:27:37,840 --> 02:27:40,840
from the center of those pots, and every six inches

2820
02:27:40,879 --> 02:27:42,920
they rooted out through hilarium.

2821
02:27:43,680 --> 02:27:44,280
Speaker 1: No, that's that.

2822
02:27:44,559 --> 02:27:47,920
Speaker 2: That's a desert. Ye, that's uncommon here you find that's

2823
02:27:48,000 --> 02:27:49,440
that You want to go to alpine for that?

2824
02:27:49,719 --> 02:27:52,399
Speaker 1: Oh that's curly misky. Yeah, I can't think of that.

2825
02:27:53,040 --> 02:27:53,959
Speaker 2: Damn it. Where is mike?

2826
02:27:54,280 --> 02:27:56,079
Speaker 1: What are some other good native grasses? Though?

2827
02:27:56,079 --> 02:27:59,200
Speaker 2: That? I mean well, you know, is a king of

2828
02:27:59,319 --> 02:28:02,760
West Texas and that used to be very common here.

2829
02:28:03,440 --> 02:28:06,319
And that's nice because that comes up fast, it takes

2830
02:28:06,600 --> 02:28:13,000
it's preadapted for our droughty summers. Very very gracillis. Yeah,

2831
02:28:13,239 --> 02:28:18,639
very very good grass. Unfortunately, you know, you should read

2832
02:28:18,639 --> 02:28:22,760
the book. You should read that guy's but the naturalist

2833
02:28:23,159 --> 02:28:26,120
in the eighteen forties and fifties who talks about the

2834
02:28:27,159 --> 02:28:36,120
introduction of Bermuda grass. You should read his thoughts on that.

2835
02:28:36,639 --> 02:28:38,239
But he was so excited he went out and collected

2836
02:28:38,280 --> 02:28:40,000
seats and grew like a few acres of it in

2837
02:28:40,159 --> 02:28:44,000
the animals. Yeah, and the animals went crazy and super nutritiously.

2838
02:28:44,000 --> 02:28:45,760
Hes like, man, this is the grass for a year

2839
02:28:45,840 --> 02:28:48,840
and yeah, and he talks with a bunch of people.

2840
02:28:48,879 --> 02:28:51,760
You know, apparently came in through South Carolina where they

2841
02:28:51,799 --> 02:28:55,040
were grown grass sixty years ago, and first occurrence in

2842
02:28:55,120 --> 02:28:57,719
Texas was from this county two years ago.

2843
02:28:57,959 --> 02:28:59,639
Speaker 1: It's just so weird to me that in a state

2844
02:28:59,799 --> 02:29:02,360
was that's a rich grass species.

2845
02:29:03,799 --> 02:29:06,879
Speaker 2: Horseshoes, oh, and even ornamental plants. I mean, that was

2846
02:29:06,920 --> 02:29:09,120
one of the other things that starting a native plant nursery.

2847
02:29:09,280 --> 02:29:13,120
We have so many beautiful small ornamental trees that can

2848
02:29:13,239 --> 02:29:18,040
take ten I remember when I got my weeping red bud.

2849
02:29:19,399 --> 02:29:22,399
Another one was that they were trying to patent from

2850
02:29:22,440 --> 02:29:25,479
New Jersey. They were like, oh, well, yours won't grow

2851
02:29:25,559 --> 02:29:27,360
up here, and I said, mine will take twenty five

2852
02:29:27,840 --> 02:29:31,760
below with standing on its head, no tip damage, no nothing.

2853
02:29:31,959 --> 02:29:34,600
Oh listen, no, no, no, you just need to look

2854
02:29:34,719 --> 02:29:38,600
back to the eighteen twenties. Tell you you read the

2855
02:29:38,639 --> 02:29:42,680
literature from like the Fall of the Alamo. It was

2856
02:29:42,840 --> 02:29:48,920
routinely snowing here in April, all the way past San Antonio.

2857
02:29:50,520 --> 02:29:54,959
Speaker 1: Why do you think there's been so such a history

2858
02:29:55,040 --> 02:29:59,159
of ecological illiteracy and disregard in this state.

2859
02:29:59,440 --> 02:30:01,600
Speaker 2: The lack of value of education in the state has

2860
02:30:01,639 --> 02:30:04,399
always been. It has always been a very strong feature

2861
02:30:04,639 --> 02:30:06,600
that the feeling that if you can read and write

2862
02:30:06,719 --> 02:30:09,520
and you simple arithmetic, that is it other than that

2863
02:30:09,639 --> 02:30:15,559
you're just an egghead. And even even all yeah, no,

2864
02:30:16,040 --> 02:30:17,920
it has been, yes, it has been. Yes.

2865
02:30:20,879 --> 02:30:24,440
Speaker 1: Do you want to read it's in the idiocracy basically,

2866
02:30:24,520 --> 02:30:28,000
it's been in Yeah. And if you're if you're going

2867
02:30:28,079 --> 02:30:30,680
to be the state, I'm not trying to ship talk

2868
02:30:30,719 --> 02:30:34,040
the state too much, but you got to be honest, look.

2869
02:30:33,920 --> 02:30:38,000
Speaker 2: At our look at the heroes of the revolution. You know, Travis,

2870
02:30:38,559 --> 02:30:42,959
he was a syphilitic womanizer who probably would have died

2871
02:30:43,040 --> 02:30:47,120
of any He had every venereal disease known to man

2872
02:30:47,239 --> 02:30:49,680
at the time of his death at the Have you

2873
02:30:49,719 --> 02:30:53,239
ever read his diary? Oh, he numbers all the women,

2874
02:30:53,319 --> 02:30:55,760
he lays. I mean, they don't go two three pages

2875
02:30:55,840 --> 02:30:59,360
with slept with the innkeeper number one fifty six. It's

2876
02:30:59,680 --> 02:31:02,319
it's but you know, if you were going to learn anything,

2877
02:31:03,120 --> 02:31:05,719
the only things that you were worth learning any math

2878
02:31:05,840 --> 02:31:11,280
for was either banking or surveyor. And the only reason

2879
02:31:11,840 --> 02:31:14,959
to learn to be able to really read something and

2880
02:31:15,079 --> 02:31:17,559
speak well. It was either be a lawyer or or

2881
02:31:17,559 --> 02:31:22,959
a politician. Education, no passion for the world, just knowledge

2882
02:31:23,000 --> 02:31:28,600
for knowledge's sake. Was was was, and it really took

2883
02:31:29,440 --> 02:31:32,159
you know, it's certainly still a large part of our

2884
02:31:32,959 --> 02:31:37,200
thought process. But for especially the rural Textans. This is

2885
02:31:37,719 --> 02:31:41,799
but even with the examples of like Texas instruments in

2886
02:31:41,879 --> 02:31:43,719
front of us, I mean, the people who invented the

2887
02:31:44,239 --> 02:31:49,159
transistor semiconductor, I mean, it's still I mean, I would

2888
02:31:49,239 --> 02:31:51,280
doubt one out of one hundred Texans could tell you

2889
02:31:51,399 --> 02:31:56,520
that the the solid state age was born in North Dallas.

2890
02:31:57,600 --> 02:32:00,840
Speaker 1: Education the only point of education was a pathway income.

2891
02:32:02,000 --> 02:32:04,200
Speaker 2: And anything else was just a waste of your time,

2892
02:32:04,319 --> 02:32:07,559
because you could be out plowing a field or sharing

2893
02:32:07,600 --> 02:32:11,920
a sheep or catching some fish or yeah. Absolutely, just nope.

2894
02:32:12,799 --> 02:32:19,000
That's what turned the divide between the Germans who came

2895
02:32:19,079 --> 02:32:23,280
here in the eighteen forties and the Anglos around them.

2896
02:32:23,399 --> 02:32:25,200
That's that's why that Gulf was.

2897
02:32:25,239 --> 02:32:29,120
Speaker 1: So Tell me about that. What's the Germans I suppose

2898
02:32:29,239 --> 02:32:31,360
were somewhat intellectual or at.

2899
02:32:31,360 --> 02:32:33,840
Speaker 2: Least value they enjoy things.

2900
02:32:33,719 --> 02:32:38,000
Speaker 1: Like where music, whereas the people who had migrated from

2901
02:32:38,040 --> 02:32:38,920
Dixie were.

2902
02:32:38,959 --> 02:32:43,040
Speaker 2: But let's get drunk in galaid. Yeah, and the people

2903
02:32:43,079 --> 02:32:46,879
from Germany were, well, let's have a dinner together and

2904
02:32:47,120 --> 02:32:52,280
talk and then my daughter will play the piano and

2905
02:32:52,520 --> 02:32:55,079
her two sisters will sing. And uh.

2906
02:32:56,319 --> 02:32:58,120
Speaker 1: When was the big German migration here?

2907
02:32:58,719 --> 02:33:04,360
Speaker 2: Well, there was. There was this pseudo organized one in

2908
02:33:04,559 --> 02:33:08,799
the which I had always thought was in a tempt

2909
02:33:08,840 --> 02:33:12,120
for Germany to colonize Texas, Take Texas, and it turned

2910
02:33:12,120 --> 02:33:15,159
out it really was. There was. Finally, ten fifteen years ago,

2911
02:33:15,319 --> 02:33:18,959
some papers appeared from the Adams of Ryans.

2912
02:33:19,000 --> 02:33:21,399
Speaker 1: It was like eighteen fifties, that a lot of them

2913
02:33:21,440 --> 02:33:23,079
came on like eighteen forty.

2914
02:33:24,079 --> 02:33:28,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, but it was just too late, it was.

2915
02:33:28,479 --> 02:33:30,399
That was why they blew it off with them. They

2916
02:33:30,440 --> 02:33:32,600
got her. They realized it was too late. The people

2917
02:33:32,639 --> 02:33:35,239
here were so forced at statehood and it was so

2918
02:33:35,440 --> 02:33:37,680
imminent that there would be no chance that the Germany

2919
02:33:37,760 --> 02:33:41,440
could grab a foothold here that yeah, you do better

2920
02:33:41,520 --> 02:33:44,000
to buy tom alipus or something from the Mexican You

2921
02:33:44,079 --> 02:33:46,360
got as good a chance of doing that, which is zero.

2922
02:33:47,239 --> 02:33:51,239
So that was finally shown to be the heart of

2923
02:33:51,280 --> 02:33:55,399
these backers, you know, because they just drugged their feet

2924
02:33:55,479 --> 02:33:57,559
so long and getting it together and then did such

2925
02:33:57,600 --> 02:33:59,879
a poor job executing it that it turned out to

2926
02:33:59,879 --> 02:34:02,959
be the death of I don't know how many thousands

2927
02:34:03,000 --> 02:34:06,840
of their citizens. Bones were littering the beaches of Indianola

2928
02:34:07,239 --> 02:34:10,120
and the walk up to New brothels.

2929
02:34:11,200 --> 02:34:14,360
Speaker 1: Just absolutely indian where's Indianola?

2930
02:34:14,559 --> 02:34:19,120
Speaker 2: Well it's gone now. It had suffered too massive hurricanes

2931
02:34:19,280 --> 02:34:25,079
like nine years apart, and eighteen seventy six, and like

2932
02:34:25,280 --> 02:34:28,120
nine years before that, I mean they were The second

2933
02:34:28,159 --> 02:34:30,799
one was just oh my god, I mean there were

2934
02:34:30,879 --> 02:34:34,559
bodies found twenty five miles inland that were washed up

2935
02:34:34,680 --> 02:34:40,280
that far. Who was grubbed off who? He was a

2936
02:34:40,360 --> 02:34:42,680
German geologist who came here for about two years.

2937
02:34:42,719 --> 02:34:45,040
Speaker 1: What was his first name, Ferdinand? Ferdinand.

2938
02:34:45,159 --> 02:34:47,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got his diary right here if you want

2939
02:34:47,559 --> 02:34:48,040
to look at it.

2940
02:34:48,479 --> 02:34:49,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'll take a look letter.

2941
02:34:49,959 --> 02:34:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I grab it.

2942
02:34:51,159 --> 02:34:52,959
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'll think after the podcast.

2943
02:34:53,079 --> 02:34:57,000
Speaker 2: I've got most of the Lenheimer's writing. There's one other

2944
02:34:57,079 --> 02:34:59,520
guy that was really a fascinating guy in the eighteen

2945
02:34:59,639 --> 02:35:08,680
fifty forties fifties. He was Liscom. He came I think

2946
02:35:08,760 --> 02:35:12,319
that was like a Dutch, you know, North German descent,

2947
02:35:12,559 --> 02:35:18,799
and he just was an all around naturalists, really into

2948
02:35:18,920 --> 02:35:23,840
insects and secondarily botany. But he lived around Cat Springs

2949
02:35:24,760 --> 02:35:29,840
south of Brenham, and he unfortunately he was an ardent Southerner,

2950
02:35:30,280 --> 02:35:32,760
you know, firm believer in slavery and so forth, and

2951
02:35:32,920 --> 02:35:35,399
was so angry by the loss of the Confederacy he

2952
02:35:35,479 --> 02:35:37,879
moved to Mexico. This is Gideon and Lincicom.

2953
02:35:38,159 --> 02:35:41,079
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, l I n cee u N.

2954
02:35:43,079 --> 02:35:46,959
Speaker 2: I've got hit his biography from his ancestors, and then

2955
02:35:47,399 --> 02:35:51,600
a really beautiful book that's taken from his diaries. That's

2956
02:35:51,799 --> 02:35:54,079
got some real insight into early Texas.

2957
02:35:54,559 --> 02:35:57,280
Speaker 1: He was from eighteen sixty five to the early eighteen nineties,

2958
02:35:57,360 --> 02:35:59,920
more Germans arrived in Texas than during the thirty years.

2959
02:36:00,040 --> 02:36:01,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say there were a lot of Yeah,

2960
02:36:01,959 --> 02:36:04,840
it was really later in the eight to that period

2961
02:36:05,040 --> 02:36:10,760
that they all came into that southeast, you know, Flatonio, Schulenberg, Brenham.

2962
02:36:11,000 --> 02:36:13,000
Speaker 1: So most of the Anglos here at that time were

2963
02:36:13,040 --> 02:36:18,000
either coming from Germany or coming from the southeast Southeast mostly. Yeah.

2964
02:36:18,520 --> 02:36:20,479
Speaker 2: Now, it's funny. The little town I went to school

2965
02:36:20,520 --> 02:36:24,079
in where Washington and Lee was Lexington. Right across the

2966
02:36:24,120 --> 02:36:28,639
street from the house I rented was a birthplace of

2967
02:36:28,719 --> 02:36:33,719
Bigfoot Wallace. Who's that one of our famous early pioneer

2968
02:36:33,879 --> 02:36:35,760
Scout Indian fighters trackers.

2969
02:36:37,520 --> 02:36:39,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if you knew this, whether he was

2970
02:36:39,200 --> 02:36:40,000
he an asshole or what.

2971
02:36:41,000 --> 02:36:42,200
Speaker 2: He didn't like Indians.

2972
02:36:42,719 --> 02:36:45,159
Speaker 1: Probably kind of an asshole. He said, he tell me

2973
02:36:45,239 --> 02:36:46,559
about the old white guy from that.

2974
02:36:49,280 --> 02:36:52,239
Speaker 2: A very famous story about him in a chief placido

2975
02:36:52,959 --> 02:36:54,920
right here on the springs at Sam Marcus.

2976
02:36:55,079 --> 02:36:56,319
Speaker 1: I didn't tell you sometime, but.

2977
02:37:00,159 --> 02:37:03,520
Speaker 2: The little college I went to, Sam Houston's father had

2978
02:37:03,559 --> 02:37:07,079
to take like seven years off for the reveruge service

2979
02:37:07,120 --> 02:37:10,280
in the Revolutionary War, and then went back to finish

2980
02:37:10,360 --> 02:37:14,280
his final senior year. And Sam Houston was born like

2981
02:37:14,600 --> 02:37:19,040
nine miles eleven miles from campus timber Ridge, I think

2982
02:37:19,200 --> 02:37:23,399
is the name is where Lexington, Virginia, Rockbridge County, Okay, Yeah, yeah,

2983
02:37:23,719 --> 02:37:28,479
so Virginia and the little county of Rockbridge, which has

2984
02:37:28,719 --> 02:37:32,000
had very few people in it. It was, however, one

2985
02:37:32,040 --> 02:37:36,200
of the first gateways to the west. This was like

2986
02:37:36,440 --> 02:37:39,239
right along before the Cumberland Pass that was where you

2987
02:37:39,319 --> 02:37:42,719
went into the interior was gho Should Pass, which is

2988
02:37:42,760 --> 02:37:44,040
where the Morey River cut through.

2989
02:37:44,079 --> 02:37:46,479
Speaker 1: The allegation do you know much about the Native history

2990
02:37:46,479 --> 02:37:53,040
and Native American history? Apaches were going back and what

2991
02:37:53,079 --> 02:37:53,680
do you think those?

2992
02:37:53,840 --> 02:37:55,319
Speaker 2: What are those all? Those? Right? Oh?

2993
02:37:55,360 --> 02:37:58,760
Speaker 1: I see the Edwards Curtis, Oh, Kathleen Duvall Native Nations.

2994
02:37:58,920 --> 02:38:01,799
Speaker 2: Look at those five whole look at those.

2995
02:38:02,719 --> 02:38:04,559
Speaker 1: Look at those Texas, India, India.

2996
02:38:04,680 --> 02:38:05,920
Speaker 2: Pick one of those out and look at it.

2997
02:38:06,239 --> 02:38:10,319
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, this looks good. The history of Texas well,

2998
02:38:11,000 --> 02:38:12,520
I want to talk about that a little bit. We'll

2999
02:38:12,600 --> 02:38:14,959
do another twenty minutes or something that we'll finish up.

3000
02:38:15,040 --> 02:38:18,639
But what do you I mean from here west who

3001
02:38:18,680 --> 02:38:20,440
were the dominant tribes.

3002
02:38:20,559 --> 02:38:23,319
Speaker 2: Well in the fifteen fifties, I mean when the first

3003
02:38:23,360 --> 02:38:27,159
Spanish came in Escalante, all those people, it was Espejo

3004
02:38:27,360 --> 02:38:29,920
that say, you would they would have seen the Humanos

3005
02:38:30,159 --> 02:38:34,079
out here west to here. Yeah, the Tonk was here,

3006
02:38:34,239 --> 02:38:37,840
the Kronk was on the coast. The command of the

3007
02:38:38,360 --> 02:38:42,639
Comanches were non players. They were up in Kansas yea,

3008
02:38:43,680 --> 02:38:48,319
and northwest of there you had Kai was but you

3009
02:38:48,479 --> 02:38:54,479
had oce Age up in the like uh eastern Oklahoma,

3010
02:38:55,159 --> 02:38:57,520
and you had Pawnees to the west of them. Kai

3011
02:38:57,879 --> 02:39:00,760
was down on the Red River. Then you had that

3012
02:39:00,959 --> 02:39:04,200
big you know Waco of course. Yeah, I mean was

3013
02:39:04,280 --> 02:39:07,159
a huge agricultural Indian.

3014
02:39:07,360 --> 02:39:09,600
Speaker 1: Who was living here in the Edwards Plateau.

3015
02:39:10,920 --> 02:39:17,559
Speaker 2: Tonk was uh humano humano first? Uh tonk was it all?

3016
02:39:17,760 --> 02:39:23,959
It's it's just what time period because what happened. Actually,

3017
02:39:24,120 --> 02:39:27,879
that's like the Humanos which are this very little known.

3018
02:39:28,600 --> 02:39:32,120
We only know like from this one it was one seventeen,

3019
02:39:32,360 --> 02:39:38,280
this one Indian that traded with the UH very out northeast.

3020
02:39:38,399 --> 02:39:41,200
Most Spanish outposts just on the rio ground.

3021
02:39:42,079 --> 02:39:44,760
Speaker 1: Uh, do you know anything about how they treated the land.

3022
02:39:46,079 --> 02:39:50,280
Speaker 2: They burnt it every year, pretty much hunted a lot

3023
02:39:50,319 --> 02:39:54,319
of agriculturists. You look at the whole, uh, you know,

3024
02:39:54,479 --> 02:40:00,920
the big the people that gave the state the name. Oh.

3025
02:40:02,479 --> 02:40:09,760
They built these very large grass like moundhouses, farmed pumpkins, melons, beans, corn,

3026
02:40:10,680 --> 02:40:16,559
got firearms from the French, horses from the plains Indians. Unfortunately,

3027
02:40:16,760 --> 02:40:24,600
they winked out really quick disease they got they bore

3028
02:40:24,680 --> 02:40:28,680
the brunt from the French coming down the Mississippi. Everybody

3029
02:40:28,760 --> 02:40:33,040
getting pushed out of the southeast United States towards them

3030
02:40:33,239 --> 02:40:42,520
because they were occupying northeast Texas, southeast Oklahoma, and then

3031
02:40:42,799 --> 02:40:51,040
northern Louisiana and southeast Arkansas. Wasn't their name escaping me?

3032
02:40:51,520 --> 02:40:55,319
This is what terrible Getting old. Don't get old, but

3033
02:40:55,520 --> 02:41:01,520
that got in your mouth when you're forty. They they

3034
02:41:01,600 --> 02:41:07,040
were fairly civilized people. I mean they they were pretty mellow.

3035
02:41:07,360 --> 02:41:08,040
Speaker 1: Super warring.

3036
02:41:08,239 --> 02:41:11,399
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, they they only you know, if you will

3037
02:41:11,719 --> 02:41:12,040
with you, but.

3038
02:41:12,719 --> 02:41:16,760
Speaker 1: Led than the people that we're coming plus and.

3039
02:41:16,840 --> 02:41:20,920
Speaker 2: We will trade for horses and weapons, and we're not

3040
02:41:21,040 --> 02:41:25,120
big into slavery, will tolerate it, but we're not, you know,

3041
02:41:25,280 --> 02:41:28,360
going slave raiding and that sort of stuff. But there

3042
02:41:28,399 --> 02:41:31,719
were you know, nakodo Actually that's where the words you know,

3043
02:41:31,719 --> 02:41:35,760
where nakodocius and nagetos natosis comes from means like paw,

3044
02:41:35,879 --> 02:41:38,879
paul and pater out of their language.

3045
02:41:40,959 --> 02:41:43,840
Speaker 1: It must have been a pleasant place to live back then.

3046
02:41:44,360 --> 02:41:48,120
Speaker 2: And really, well, you know, I'm glad I don't get jiggers.

3047
02:41:48,120 --> 02:41:51,360
If you get jiggers, I can't imagine how hell.

3048
02:41:51,440 --> 02:41:54,440
Speaker 1: That's probably why they were burning kidding me, that's why

3049
02:41:54,479 --> 02:41:54,760
I would.

3050
02:41:54,760 --> 02:41:56,360
Speaker 2: I've never had a chigger in my life. They don't

3051
02:41:56,399 --> 02:41:56,719
touch me.

3052
02:41:57,280 --> 02:41:59,559
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure they do. You don't react to

3053
02:41:59,639 --> 02:42:01,399
their Yeah, no, they don't touch me.

3054
02:42:01,959 --> 02:42:02,159
Speaker 2: Yeah.

3055
02:42:02,200 --> 02:42:04,399
Speaker 1: I never got chiggers when I lived that west because

3056
02:42:04,440 --> 02:42:09,079
there's there there you go to humid sand habitats or wherever.

3057
02:42:09,280 --> 02:42:13,079
Speaker 2: And yeah, they used to be ubiquitous. Yeah, I mean

3058
02:42:13,120 --> 02:42:15,600
you couldn't walk from the nursery to the house without

3059
02:42:15,639 --> 02:42:19,280
getting sugar. So what happened they disappeared in this last

3060
02:42:19,360 --> 02:42:20,079
ten years.

3061
02:42:20,079 --> 02:42:22,520
Speaker 1: Because their food source is gone. Whatever they were eating.

3062
02:42:23,959 --> 02:42:25,479
Speaker 2: Us come in and wipe the rabbits out in the

3063
02:42:25,559 --> 02:42:27,719
last ten years. They're just now starting to come back.

3064
02:42:27,959 --> 02:42:31,319
Speaker 1: What are chigger's main food sources? It lizards or rabbits

3065
02:42:31,440 --> 02:42:31,600
or what.

3066
02:42:31,920 --> 02:42:36,959
Speaker 2: No, it's whatever mammals around. They hit your skin, they

3067
02:42:37,079 --> 02:42:40,360
chew a hole in they put dies of enzymes in it.

3068
02:42:40,479 --> 02:42:42,639
They're go and they stop. They sit for like a day.

3069
02:42:42,680 --> 02:42:45,120
Then they turn around, they eat the predigested stuff that

3070
02:42:45,200 --> 02:42:47,559
they chewed up. They fall to the ground and go

3071
02:42:47,639 --> 02:42:49,440
through another end star and do that a couple of

3072
02:42:49,479 --> 02:42:50,719
times and do it again.

3073
02:42:51,239 --> 02:42:51,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3074
02:42:51,559 --> 02:42:53,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're horrible, Yeah they are. They look terrible. I

3075
02:42:54,000 --> 02:42:56,319
mean I've seen them on somebody from human native plants

3076
02:42:56,360 --> 02:43:01,600
at ut is grat Oh you want sitting there. Everybody

3077
02:43:01,639 --> 02:43:03,799
else has got these huge purple bands.

3078
02:43:03,920 --> 02:43:08,079
Speaker 3: You need a microscope to see the ah, you can

3079
02:43:08,360 --> 02:43:12,000
barely see them, but it takes like your immune system

3080
02:43:12,319 --> 02:43:14,239
a few minutes after they burrowed into.

3081
02:43:15,159 --> 02:43:17,159
Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, you do know how when you've

3082
02:43:17,319 --> 02:43:20,000
been out in poison ivy Ville, how to make sure

3083
02:43:20,040 --> 02:43:23,200
you don't get poison. I it's so simple, so cheap,

3084
02:43:23,600 --> 02:43:27,719
that the next time you're in a good nursery, go

3085
02:43:27,959 --> 02:43:31,639
up to the shelf and buy spend your seven bucks

3086
02:43:31,799 --> 02:43:34,639
by the five pound bag of the stuff called copperas

3087
02:43:35,079 --> 02:43:41,079
ferris sulfate coppers. When you get home, take a couple

3088
02:43:41,280 --> 02:43:44,959
heaping tablespoons of that in a gallon of warm water.

3089
02:43:45,639 --> 02:43:49,079
Dissolve it. Dissolve right up. Take that bucket with a

3090
02:43:49,280 --> 02:43:53,239
cloth into your shower, Stand in your shower bath, get

3091
02:43:53,319 --> 02:43:56,399
that wet. Just rub your whole body with it.

3092
02:43:57,079 --> 02:43:58,120
Speaker 1: What does it do to the oil?

3093
02:43:59,079 --> 02:44:04,079
Speaker 2: It takes the urushawl and it breaks a double bond

3094
02:44:04,200 --> 02:44:07,000
and reduce to something that does nothing to you.

3095
02:44:08,079 --> 02:44:08,319
Speaker 1: Wow.

3096
02:44:09,680 --> 02:44:12,200
Speaker 2: One of these labs was gonna try to patent it

3097
02:44:12,559 --> 02:44:13,159
and put it out.

3098
02:44:13,360 --> 02:44:16,719
Speaker 1: But the bomber is ferris sulfate isn't toxic.

3099
02:44:16,840 --> 02:44:20,959
Speaker 2: It's not not no, no, no no. The only bomber

3100
02:44:21,079 --> 02:44:22,840
is you got to do it within like ninety minutes

3101
02:44:22,879 --> 02:44:26,239
two hours because the solution at four hours, it reacts

3102
02:44:26,280 --> 02:44:32,440
with the atmospheric oxygen and becomes ferric sulfate, which precipitates

3103
02:44:32,479 --> 02:44:36,479
at the bottom, and you're left with like yellowish looks

3104
02:44:36,559 --> 02:44:39,319
like pale urine and this red rust at the bottom.

3105
02:44:39,159 --> 02:44:42,319
Speaker 1: Like kepin during the Great Oxygenation Event two point three

3106
02:44:42,360 --> 02:44:43,079
billion years ago.

3107
02:44:43,200 --> 02:44:48,639
Speaker 2: Right, coppers will instantly destroy the the poisonous compound present

3108
02:44:48,920 --> 02:44:54,639
and poison oak, poison ivy and all. Yeah, it's instantaneous.

3109
02:44:54,719 --> 02:44:56,719
All you gotta do is rub it on you and

3110
02:44:56,879 --> 02:45:00,559
then rinse it off and you will never get poison

3111
02:45:00,639 --> 02:45:01,120
ivy again.

3112
02:45:01,159 --> 02:45:04,280
Speaker 1: You don't need that fifteen dollars bottle of technw you just.

3113
02:45:05,079 --> 02:45:07,440
Speaker 2: No see they were got to, but they realize that

3114
02:45:07,639 --> 02:45:09,639
it was just once people look because they have to

3115
02:45:09,680 --> 02:45:12,920
put the ingredient down. It's just fair of sulfate color.

3116
02:45:13,040 --> 02:45:13,719
Speaker 1: Get it so cheap.

3117
02:45:13,719 --> 02:45:15,639
Speaker 2: It'll be like, why am I spending four bucks for

3118
02:45:15,719 --> 02:45:17,719
this when I buy five, you know, for a gram

3119
02:45:17,840 --> 02:45:20,360
of this, when I can buy five pounds of it

3120
02:45:20,600 --> 02:45:21,719
for seven bucks.

3121
02:45:21,719 --> 02:45:23,040
Speaker 1: It's good to know because like a third of the

3122
02:45:23,120 --> 02:45:26,559
plants in that family produce you russio too, So.

3123
02:45:26,920 --> 02:45:29,799
Speaker 2: It's a prudent thing to do. It's very I have

3124
02:45:30,000 --> 02:45:34,079
to wallow in it. I'm so chemically inert.

3125
02:45:36,040 --> 02:45:36,840
Speaker 1: You don't react to it.

3126
02:45:37,600 --> 02:45:40,680
Speaker 2: No reacting. Well, I've reacted in my entire life maybe

3127
02:45:40,760 --> 02:45:43,760
five times. Wow, crazy, which is crazy when you think

3128
02:45:43,799 --> 02:45:45,760
of all the stuff I've do, how much time I've

3129
02:45:45,840 --> 02:45:51,040
lived outside camping, living in places like Connecticut, Virginia, Alabama.

3130
02:45:52,239 --> 02:45:54,799
Speaker 1: What did you you know quite a bit about the

3131
02:45:54,840 --> 02:45:57,840
Sylvium species? Here my dissertation, what do you know about

3132
02:45:57,840 --> 02:45:59,360
Sylvium malboflorum, And.

3133
02:45:59,719 --> 02:46:01,959
Speaker 2: Really that's so, that's the one of the real oddball

3134
02:46:02,000 --> 02:46:06,079
players in the group. It's obviously closely related to liciniatum,

3135
02:46:06,280 --> 02:46:10,799
and probably is there's a derivative of this. It's dwarf

3136
02:46:10,879 --> 02:46:14,719
stature with it's only white flowered species. It's range on

3137
02:46:14,959 --> 02:46:19,879
that west edge of the Blackland Prairie and then into

3138
02:46:19,959 --> 02:46:25,280
the hill country. That population in Mason that Michael told

3139
02:46:25,319 --> 02:46:26,680
me about just blew me away.

3140
02:46:26,760 --> 02:46:27,280
Speaker 1: Well, what is that.

3141
02:46:28,159 --> 02:46:34,680
Speaker 2: There's a huge population of a Sylphi malbfloor Mason. Where's Mason?

3142
02:46:34,760 --> 02:46:37,719
It's the Highway eighty seven north from Fredericksburg.

3143
02:46:38,280 --> 02:46:40,680
Speaker 1: Why the white flowers? What do you think that what's

3144
02:46:40,719 --> 02:46:41,680
selected for?

3145
02:46:41,799 --> 02:46:44,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. Good one. Everything else is yellow. It's

3146
02:46:44,840 --> 02:46:48,639
a neat group of planets. Funny. The other reason, oh

3147
02:46:48,799 --> 02:46:49,840
fucked over, dude.

3148
02:46:50,079 --> 02:46:50,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3149
02:46:50,719 --> 02:46:54,280
Speaker 2: When I started doing my dissertation on that, I had

3150
02:46:54,959 --> 02:46:58,680
seven guys from the Texas Stockman's Association uppere in my

3151
02:46:58,840 --> 02:47:03,040
lab at ut asking me to collect as many pounds

3152
02:47:03,079 --> 02:47:05,959
of seed of Licinianum as I could and they would

3153
02:47:06,040 --> 02:47:08,360
pay me to grow it out, because they had now

3154
02:47:08,520 --> 02:47:11,600
realized in nineteen eighty two that that was the only

3155
02:47:11,680 --> 02:47:14,239
reason they still on their land was because they had

3156
02:47:14,319 --> 02:47:17,360
thousands and thousands and thousands of those on their land

3157
02:47:17,559 --> 02:47:20,000
during the fifties drought. Because you know how big the

3158
02:47:20,079 --> 02:47:20,879
tap boots get on.

3159
02:47:20,920 --> 02:47:23,399
Speaker 1: Those Oh yeah, the fucking massive.

3160
02:47:23,440 --> 02:47:27,040
Speaker 2: I bet there's a report probably like deep too.

3161
02:47:27,479 --> 02:47:29,200
Speaker 1: No, they don't go deep, they go wild.

3162
02:47:29,760 --> 02:47:32,280
Speaker 2: You don't even close. I can show you in the

3163
02:47:32,360 --> 02:47:37,440
literature a guy at the University of Eyewall. He took

3164
02:47:37,520 --> 02:47:41,760
three the football players that were on probation. He got

3165
02:47:41,840 --> 02:47:44,200
them out and made them. He went and found the

3166
02:47:44,239 --> 02:47:46,200
biggest one he could in his area. This was in

3167
02:47:46,280 --> 02:47:50,040
the thirties. They started digging it out on one side. First,

3168
02:47:50,079 --> 02:47:52,200
they dug the crown out. It was like three feet

3169
02:47:52,239 --> 02:47:56,680
four inches across. They started digging down one side. He

3170
02:47:56,840 --> 02:47:59,840
had to stop them at thirty two feet because he

3171
02:47:59,920 --> 02:48:02,559
was afraid of the side collapsing in and varying.

3172
02:48:02,719 --> 02:48:06,760
Speaker 1: It went down thirty two feet with no taper, just

3173
02:48:07,000 --> 02:48:07,719
still thick.

3174
02:48:07,600 --> 02:48:10,120
Speaker 2: As hell, still three feet four inches.

3175
02:48:10,280 --> 02:48:12,120
Speaker 1: So that three foot tall plant that you.

3176
02:48:12,200 --> 02:48:14,399
Speaker 2: See, Oh no, I've seen them eighteenth feet tall.

3177
02:48:14,520 --> 02:48:16,920
Speaker 1: You've seen Sylphium albaflorum.

3178
02:48:16,360 --> 02:48:21,520
Speaker 2: No non albaform. Yeah, and I've never seen a cross

3179
02:48:21,600 --> 02:48:24,799
between the two. Never, right, And the people at the

3180
02:48:24,879 --> 02:48:27,719
University of Ohio had a whole sit of different chromosomes

3181
02:48:28,680 --> 02:48:32,879
because they're so close that they're like because we have

3182
02:48:33,040 --> 02:48:34,440
strong barriers.

3183
02:48:34,040 --> 02:48:38,360
Speaker 1: From doing so how what what strong barriers between the.

3184
02:48:38,879 --> 02:48:45,399
Speaker 2: This often happens post hybridization. To avoid disappearing, you put up,

3185
02:48:48,120 --> 02:48:50,079
I have to give you these two books to read.

3186
02:48:50,159 --> 02:48:52,840
Speaker 1: You you need to read those two Let me let

3187
02:48:52,879 --> 02:48:54,479
me pause this. I gotta take a league anyway. So

3188
02:48:54,600 --> 02:48:58,479
you you said you did a dissertation on the genus Sylphium. Wow,

3189
02:48:59,200 --> 02:49:00,760
did you do you know about that weird one in

3190
02:49:00,959 --> 02:49:04,799
western Arkansas. It's like a laciniatum fucking variety, the.

3191
02:49:05,120 --> 02:49:09,840
Speaker 2: Intifida that's a hybrid between compositum and the city on them.

3192
02:49:09,879 --> 02:49:12,239
That's an interesting plan. Yeah, But there was one found

3193
02:49:12,319 --> 02:49:14,319
up in Ohio that's only found in one creek and

3194
02:49:14,399 --> 02:49:17,840
it's a few individuals. There's one that's in southern Alabama

3195
02:49:17,920 --> 02:49:20,440
that's that's in a endangered species, but that one's only

3196
02:49:20,520 --> 02:49:24,120
found in like ninety six. Then there's that really rare

3197
02:49:24,239 --> 02:49:28,840
one that's just south of Suwannee campus where's the buggy

3198
02:49:28,920 --> 02:49:35,000
Top cave right on the Woodstad Well. It's in just

3199
02:49:35,440 --> 02:49:40,000
above the Alabama border in Tennessee. I mean it's three miles.

3200
02:49:40,079 --> 02:49:44,479
There's three caves and it lives right at the mouth

3201
02:49:44,600 --> 02:49:47,680
of them and out it's in that limestone and that

3202
02:49:47,840 --> 02:49:51,719
heavily caved out area. Beautiful part of the Maybe that's

3203
02:49:51,719 --> 02:49:54,280
where I should retire. Oh, that's a beautiful part of

3204
02:49:54,799 --> 02:49:58,280
And the damnedest thing is you leave that spot, you

3205
02:49:58,440 --> 02:50:01,479
drive about six miles and you see all these signs

3206
02:50:01,600 --> 02:50:09,760
like road disappears from views fifteen miles an hour. When

3207
02:50:09,799 --> 02:50:13,360
you come off of the Cumberland Planteau, it is like

3208
02:50:14,360 --> 02:50:20,479
a mile long, forty five thirty degree drop. I mean,

3209
02:50:20,600 --> 02:50:24,959
you've got shifted down to second, switch your feet. But

3210
02:50:25,079 --> 02:50:27,440
the coolest thing is when you get to the bottom,

3211
02:50:28,200 --> 02:50:30,879
you just go to the right to the west to

3212
02:50:31,159 --> 02:50:36,920
Decalbot County. Their eyes a two hundred square mile maybe more.

3213
02:50:38,159 --> 02:50:42,079
I didn't explore the boundaries of it. I couldn't believe

3214
02:50:42,120 --> 02:50:45,920
it when I saw it. This is Alabama. It's mature

3215
02:50:46,639 --> 02:50:50,280
tall grass prairie. There's a selfium less sending on them there.

3216
02:50:50,440 --> 02:50:54,639
That's where it's really hybridizing with terra benthanaceum on one

3217
02:50:54,719 --> 02:50:57,840
side and canposit them on the end. That is one

3218
02:50:57,879 --> 02:51:00,559
of my you know that was that was that industry

3219
02:51:00,680 --> 02:51:01,680
in the eighteenth.

3220
02:51:01,360 --> 02:51:03,520
Speaker 1: They can live hundred years easily.

3221
02:51:03,959 --> 02:51:06,719
Speaker 2: They can live for three hundred and fifty. I would

3222
02:51:06,760 --> 02:51:09,799
think really that was an industry in that after the

3223
02:51:09,959 --> 02:51:14,959
Civil War to like nineteen fifteen. People would take the

3224
02:51:15,120 --> 02:51:19,639
leaves or like this big the smaller leaves and iron

3225
02:51:19,719 --> 02:51:22,120
them flat and then put two or three coats of

3226
02:51:22,239 --> 02:51:25,360
shell act on them, and then your husband would be

3227
02:51:25,440 --> 02:51:28,879
carving little handles with like two rivets. They were used

3228
02:51:28,879 --> 02:51:32,079
as fans start looking in front of them. You'll see

3229
02:51:32,120 --> 02:51:36,200
them everywhere in that period. Yeah, but they're just the

3230
02:51:36,319 --> 02:51:37,120
ones about.

3231
02:51:36,959 --> 02:51:40,000
Speaker 1: Like this big what is it like a plastic or

3232
02:51:40,040 --> 02:51:41,159
something like a fucking.

3233
02:51:41,120 --> 02:51:43,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, real sillac the stuff from koshaneel.

3234
02:51:44,000 --> 02:51:45,559
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know what. I don't know what that is.

3235
02:51:45,680 --> 02:51:46,079
What is it.

3236
02:51:47,760 --> 02:51:53,760
Speaker 2: What we used before? It's the excresia of the koshaneel

3237
02:51:53,799 --> 02:51:56,920
in set. Yeah, we get the die from it on

3238
02:51:57,079 --> 02:52:00,280
one hand, and then we get what's called schillac, which

3239
02:52:00,319 --> 02:52:02,639
is what you put on violins and find furniture. What

3240
02:52:02,840 --> 02:52:05,319
we used to protect furniture.

3241
02:52:05,239 --> 02:52:06,159
Speaker 1: Before we came.

3242
02:52:06,360 --> 02:52:09,520
Speaker 2: Now it's like polyurethane. It's what we used. You still

3243
02:52:09,680 --> 02:52:12,239
use it. Get it you buy it. I have a

3244
02:52:12,360 --> 02:52:13,559
cannv it in here somewhere.

3245
02:52:13,840 --> 02:52:16,079
Speaker 1: I mean, why would they get it off? These these mites,

3246
02:52:16,239 --> 02:52:16,920
these coaches we.

3247
02:52:17,120 --> 02:52:21,159
Speaker 2: Use take a basin and you set it below and

3248
02:52:21,239 --> 02:52:23,879
you take like this toothbrush like thing and you scrape

3249
02:52:23,920 --> 02:52:26,479
the insects off, and then you put them in a

3250
02:52:26,600 --> 02:52:30,479
sieve and you pour straight one hundred percent grand alcohol over.

3251
02:52:30,520 --> 02:52:34,639
Then you filter that. Then you evaporated and break it

3252
02:52:34,719 --> 02:52:36,319
up into little crystals. And that's.

3253
02:52:38,639 --> 02:52:39,440
Speaker 1: Beautiful stuff.

3254
02:52:40,520 --> 02:52:43,239
Speaker 2: It's expensive. I bought some. God, it was so hard

3255
02:52:43,280 --> 02:52:44,079
to get. I've got a look.

3256
02:52:44,399 --> 02:52:46,959
Speaker 1: Why did you pick sylphium for your dissertation?

3257
02:52:47,239 --> 02:52:49,239
Speaker 2: Because I wanted to. I was so pissed at all

3258
02:52:49,280 --> 02:52:51,799
these fuck head grad students that were flying all over

3259
02:52:51,879 --> 02:52:57,760
the place getting sick of shit, uh, never finishing a project. Yeah,

3260
02:52:58,399 --> 02:53:01,200
because it was gonna let me see the heartland of America.

3261
02:53:03,319 --> 02:53:05,120
Speaker 1: How many species the genus do you know?

3262
02:53:05,280 --> 02:53:08,680
Speaker 2: Well, at the time I dropped it, now James Conkle

3263
02:53:08,719 --> 02:53:09,360
Small put.

3264
02:53:09,239 --> 02:53:11,239
Speaker 1: It in like one hundred and three, one hundred and

3265
02:53:11,280 --> 02:53:12,760
three species.

3266
02:53:12,879 --> 02:53:16,760
Speaker 2: Well this was the master divider. Yeah. No, there's like

3267
02:53:16,879 --> 02:53:20,920
thirteen species in it, two two one genus, two sub

3268
02:53:21,040 --> 02:53:29,000
general and then one the subgenus licinioa. There's just no

3269
02:53:29,399 --> 02:53:32,319
no other subgroups in that. That's all there. The other

3270
02:53:32,440 --> 02:53:39,559
one has two in it two two sub two sections.

3271
02:53:40,479 --> 02:53:44,079
So you have two subgenera, one with one secsion, the

3272
02:53:44,159 --> 02:53:45,280
other of two sessions.

3273
02:53:45,440 --> 02:53:48,520
Speaker 1: In my text, what's the Alabama one? Moor's it's there's

3274
02:53:48,559 --> 02:53:51,399
a there's a rare one in Alabama, mores rousing, weeed.

3275
02:53:51,520 --> 02:53:52,520
What is the species on that?

3276
02:53:54,159 --> 02:53:58,040
Speaker 2: Is? That was a name that was invalid for something,

3277
02:53:58,159 --> 02:54:00,440
but no, there was that. There's that one that's from

3278
02:54:00,479 --> 02:54:01,440
that's right on the border.

3279
02:54:03,239 --> 02:54:07,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, mari I am o h r yeah, great,

3280
02:54:07,399 --> 02:54:08,120
fucking I think.

3281
02:54:08,040 --> 02:54:11,840
Speaker 2: That's just a form of integrafolium, which is now what radula?

3282
02:54:13,319 --> 02:54:15,920
Speaker 1: Yeah maybe no, they're still integrifoiume out there.

3283
02:54:16,479 --> 02:54:18,440
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm saying that's just a oh.

3284
02:54:18,479 --> 02:54:22,159
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah, what is well.

3285
02:54:22,079 --> 02:54:25,799
Speaker 2: There's an invalid form of it in Southeast Texas of integrafolium.

3286
02:54:26,600 --> 02:54:33,079
What was it? Oh? Terrible, terrible. The only thing interesting

3287
02:54:33,159 --> 02:54:41,040
about it, it's flavanoid profile was so so utterly bear bone.

3288
02:54:42,360 --> 02:54:45,239
Oh that's in a separated really well, the two subgeneras

3289
02:54:45,280 --> 02:54:49,879
separated really well. All the flaminoid chemistry. One Querston City.

3290
02:54:50,120 --> 02:54:54,000
I mean, and like we're talking like five percent of

3291
02:54:54,159 --> 02:54:57,559
the dry matter of the leaf material is quer satan alone.

3292
02:54:57,840 --> 02:55:00,799
Then it has three or four other very simple flavor

3293
02:55:00,840 --> 02:55:07,760
and oleslav. It's one of the most common of all flavonoids.

3294
02:55:08,159 --> 02:55:11,959
It's what comes out of oak leaves, hence the name.

3295
02:55:12,959 --> 02:55:14,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there you go.

3296
02:55:14,680 --> 02:55:17,399
Speaker 2: You want to borrow my spectroscopy and chemistry of the

3297
02:55:17,440 --> 02:55:23,079
flavoroits by my professor Tom Version. That's all right, and

3298
02:55:23,200 --> 02:55:28,200
then uh terping wise, there was nothing outstanding.

3299
02:55:28,120 --> 02:55:30,239
Speaker 1: Or cool, but it made they all make that thick.

3300
02:55:31,319 --> 02:55:32,680
Speaker 2: I tell you, I thought it was going to get

3301
02:55:32,680 --> 02:55:36,440
busted in Kansas when a state trooper, and now they

3302
02:55:36,600 --> 02:55:39,719
protect their wildflowers. When I wrote, I had to write

3303
02:55:39,760 --> 02:55:45,479
every state to get permission to collect. Every state politely

3304
02:55:45,600 --> 02:55:48,399
sent me a letter back saying thank you very much.

3305
02:55:49,959 --> 02:55:53,159
This letter is to inform you you have the permission

3306
02:55:53,319 --> 02:55:56,879
of our interior apartment or whatever parts of online to

3307
02:55:57,079 --> 02:56:02,799
collect specimens for your dissertation and lab analysis. Thank you

3308
02:56:02,920 --> 02:56:06,319
for your consideration and asking us what does Kansas send back?

3309
02:56:07,760 --> 02:56:11,680
We'll be looking for you and we find you on

3310
02:56:11,760 --> 02:56:15,639
the state in our state collecting any wildflower specimens you

3311
02:56:15,799 --> 02:56:18,959
will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

3312
02:56:19,360 --> 02:56:23,520
We have enclosed the law for your consideration and to

3313
02:56:23,639 --> 02:56:27,000
see that you will be spending some quality jail time

3314
02:56:27,079 --> 02:56:33,719
with us, along with a hefty fine. Kansas, Yeah, a

3315
02:56:33,760 --> 02:56:37,520
wildflower state. I don't know, but so I was very

3316
02:56:37,840 --> 02:56:40,840
like on the QT. God, damn, I'm in the middle.

3317
02:56:41,079 --> 02:56:43,719
Speaker 1: Where hide the president?

3318
02:56:43,959 --> 02:56:49,280
Speaker 2: Here comes a state trooper. Oh my god, I am

3319
02:56:49,440 --> 02:56:52,319
going I'm going to have to call my brother was

3320
02:56:52,360 --> 02:56:52,719
married to.

3321
02:56:52,760 --> 02:56:54,760
Speaker 1: They don't want to search you for drugs. This is

3322
02:56:54,840 --> 02:56:55,600
like the seventies.

3323
02:56:57,520 --> 02:57:02,040
Speaker 2: I look, I'd learned my lesson at w L and

3324
02:57:03,000 --> 02:57:05,239
I'm gonna have to call my father in law, the chancellor.

3325
02:57:05,559 --> 02:57:07,959
My brother was married to the chancellor's daughter. They used

3326
02:57:07,959 --> 02:57:10,799
to live. We're our neighbors in Dallas. He was gonna

3327
02:57:10,840 --> 02:57:16,719
make me the youngest major chancellor or president of a university.

3328
02:57:18,159 --> 02:57:19,559
Said I'm gonna have you won by by the time

3329
02:57:19,600 --> 02:57:21,760
you're thirty two. You'll see you Thank you for this

3330
02:57:22,840 --> 02:57:25,319
crazy fuck nice guy, at least to me. The shit

3331
02:57:25,440 --> 02:57:31,040
he did for me was I but he's like, you

3332
02:57:31,159 --> 02:57:33,799
having car trouble And I said no, sir, and he

3333
02:57:34,000 --> 02:57:35,319
was kind of like, well, what do you doing? Your

3334
02:57:35,479 --> 02:57:39,719
I said, I was collecting specimens for my dissertation, sir,

3335
02:57:39,760 --> 02:57:41,639
And he goes, oh, or.

3336
02:57:41,639 --> 02:57:42,120
Speaker 1: Are you working?

3337
02:57:42,239 --> 02:57:45,799
Speaker 2: I said, this group here. He said, I don't know

3338
02:57:45,920 --> 02:57:49,200
anything about plants. I said, oh, mister genus Sylphium, you

3339
02:57:49,319 --> 02:57:54,280
have really about the best representation of species of any state. Uh.

3340
02:57:54,680 --> 02:57:59,440
And I was collecting some of this rootstock, uh for

3341
02:57:59,559 --> 02:58:01,600
because I the anatomy of mine. I mean, I made

3342
02:58:01,639 --> 02:58:04,719
slides and there's a bunch of microscopic ship that separated

3343
02:58:04,799 --> 02:58:06,760
the groups, which is better than the chemical.

3344
02:58:06,440 --> 02:58:07,079
Speaker 1: Shit, I'll say.

3345
02:58:09,239 --> 02:58:12,559
Speaker 2: But I finally looked at him and and he was like,

3346
02:58:12,879 --> 02:58:16,079
you mean that's underground under this. I said, yeah, you

3347
02:58:16,079 --> 02:58:17,840
should see what happens when you cut out. Because I

3348
02:58:17,920 --> 02:58:22,079
had to take a pickaxe and heat it up to

3349
02:58:22,120 --> 02:58:26,520
red hot, bend it out, grind the sides off, get

3350
02:58:26,840 --> 02:58:30,559
it really thin, and put this you could shave with

3351
02:58:30,680 --> 02:58:34,520
the edge I put on it. You dig that rude out,

3352
02:58:35,600 --> 02:58:39,120
which and I did it for him, and he was, oh,

3353
02:58:39,239 --> 02:58:41,239
my god, let me get my camera. You're gonna do it,

3354
02:58:41,319 --> 02:58:42,600
Please do another one for him.

3355
02:58:42,639 --> 02:58:47,159
Speaker 1: What it looked like just like a hog leg going down.

3356
02:58:49,239 --> 02:58:51,799
Speaker 2: Appeared to be a small plant. It had this weird orange,

3357
02:58:51,920 --> 02:58:55,639
just kind of coark color. On the outside. It was fissured,

3358
02:58:55,680 --> 02:58:59,680
and the fissures had this odd orange coloration too. But

3359
02:59:00,760 --> 02:59:03,639
when you had to you learn quick to stand back.

3360
02:59:04,760 --> 02:59:07,719
You take that thing, stand back and take that pitch

3361
02:59:07,799 --> 02:59:11,559
for me of that picking do it to the side.

3362
02:59:11,680 --> 02:59:17,360
So when but it would squirk like twelve jets of

3363
02:59:17,520 --> 02:59:22,120
that syrupy sap like eight feet up in the air.

3364
02:59:22,479 --> 02:59:25,639
And if it got on you, well havent helped you.

3365
02:59:25,799 --> 02:59:28,239
As I found that one of its uses by the

3366
02:59:28,280 --> 02:59:32,920
American Indian was as a glue. If they made a

3367
02:59:33,159 --> 02:59:35,479
chewing gum out of it, they'd spread it out and

3368
02:59:35,920 --> 02:59:41,040
keep putting lay after layer and now all terrabinthanasium. Yeah,

3369
02:59:41,120 --> 02:59:44,360
that whole way. That was the big thing between the

3370
02:59:44,440 --> 02:59:48,000
two subgenera. One subgenera had those giant tap roots and

3371
02:59:48,079 --> 02:59:51,040
then the others just typical composite roots. You got these

3372
02:59:51,120 --> 02:59:54,079
rhizomes go two inches, makes a head comes up, then

3373
02:59:54,159 --> 02:59:56,319
two more come out two inches, there's a head comes

3374
02:59:56,399 --> 02:59:58,559
up and you get a root structure. You know, this

3375
02:59:58,680 --> 03:00:02,200
big across it's ferce stuff. The other one had these

3376
03:00:02,479 --> 03:00:06,719
unbelievable artisifers, some of them on the bigger ones. They

3377
03:00:06,760 --> 03:00:09,040
were this big across. You'd see you could put a

3378
03:00:09,440 --> 03:00:13,120
barbecue skewer through them. They were so big. Yeah, yeah,

3379
03:00:14,200 --> 03:00:17,280
uh I did that first one from me. He was,

3380
03:00:17,559 --> 03:00:21,600
Oh my god, that was so unbelievable.

3381
03:00:21,879 --> 03:00:22,760
Speaker 1: Let me get my camera.

3382
03:00:22,840 --> 03:00:25,000
Speaker 2: Would you mind doing another one? Nobody's ever gone to

3383
03:00:25,040 --> 03:00:28,719
believe me. Yeah, And you're helping me dig it across

3384
03:00:28,799 --> 03:00:32,200
and he's like, like all set up, and you know

3385
03:00:32,360 --> 03:00:35,280
it's a nikon in what speech should I have it?

3386
03:00:35,360 --> 03:00:38,319
And it moves pretty fast, I'm guessing looks like, you know,

3387
03:00:38,760 --> 03:00:41,520
fifteen miles an hour. It's certainly faster than gravity. Though.

3388
03:00:41,639 --> 03:00:44,159
Speaker 1: You know, what's the maximum root depth on some of them?

3389
03:00:44,239 --> 03:00:46,799
Speaker 2: No one knows. No one's been able, No one has

3390
03:00:46,920 --> 03:00:49,520
been ever gone to the bottom of when any of

3391
03:00:49,559 --> 03:00:50,159
the big ones.

3392
03:00:50,879 --> 03:00:51,680
Speaker 1: That's wild man.

3393
03:00:52,000 --> 03:00:56,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, that story that guy from Missouri or Iowa. Uh,

3394
03:00:57,040 --> 03:01:01,479
thirty two feet with no tape and I mean three

3395
03:01:01,639 --> 03:01:06,000
four inches across. I mean that's this big across. I

3396
03:01:06,040 --> 03:01:08,840
would imagine the lacticiafers in that where's big around as

3397
03:01:08,879 --> 03:01:09,360
your thumb.

3398
03:01:09,479 --> 03:01:11,159
Speaker 1: The whole root was three feet.

3399
03:01:15,479 --> 03:01:18,959
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, like a bigger than like three telephone poles

3400
03:01:19,079 --> 03:01:21,079
end to end. I mean, so I decided it was

3401
03:01:21,280 --> 03:01:24,399
like a tree this big around, Yeah, like a three

3402
03:01:24,479 --> 03:01:31,079
foot yes, which is the climax in my opinion. As

3403
03:01:31,079 --> 03:01:36,120
I wrote, I believe this to be the pinnacle of

3404
03:01:36,479 --> 03:01:41,719
plains evolution. This thing runs from south central South Texas

3405
03:01:42,479 --> 03:01:47,319
all the way up to the Canada border, through Michigan, Minnesota,

3406
03:01:48,920 --> 03:01:53,440
over almost South Dakota comes or in South Dakota, all

3407
03:01:53,520 --> 03:01:56,239
the way down up until the mountains, and then it

3408
03:01:56,399 --> 03:02:01,239
reappears sporadically. I found it. It Eurekas brings Arkansas off

3409
03:02:01,319 --> 03:02:01,799
the mountains.

3410
03:02:02,040 --> 03:02:04,040
Speaker 1: This thing is basically an underground tree.

3411
03:02:04,360 --> 03:02:08,719
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it's just a tree that's adapted to living underground.

3412
03:02:08,799 --> 03:02:09,440
So don't burn.

3413
03:02:09,680 --> 03:02:11,559
Speaker 1: What about Albert Floram? How big to the roots that

3414
03:02:11,680 --> 03:02:12,000
he knows?

3415
03:02:12,520 --> 03:02:14,719
Speaker 2: They're weird? And that's the only one that has colored

3416
03:02:14,799 --> 03:02:18,159
sap sap on It is red weird?

3417
03:02:18,319 --> 03:02:19,000
Speaker 1: What the fuck?

3418
03:02:19,079 --> 03:02:19,239
Speaker 2: Well?

3419
03:02:19,280 --> 03:02:22,200
Speaker 1: How big? What do the roots look like? They don't

3420
03:02:22,200 --> 03:02:22,959
go that deep and.

3421
03:02:23,319 --> 03:02:29,120
Speaker 2: There's often three, occasionally as many as five coming off

3422
03:02:29,200 --> 03:02:31,760
from a central point and they'll get that, but they're short,

3423
03:02:31,760 --> 03:02:33,040
they're only they're like a carrot.

3424
03:02:33,600 --> 03:02:35,639
Speaker 1: Do you have photos of the lacini Adam route?

3425
03:02:35,639 --> 03:02:39,000
Speaker 2: That's no, that was in nineteen thirty four, that guy

3426
03:02:39,040 --> 03:02:39,239
did that.

3427
03:02:39,399 --> 03:02:43,399
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh no, that's that's insane man.

3428
03:02:43,600 --> 03:02:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh but I can. Oh but as I tell

3429
03:02:46,079 --> 03:02:48,440
you these this Cattleman's Association came up and said that

3430
03:02:48,520 --> 03:02:50,600
was the only thing that saved our ranch. It took

3431
03:02:50,680 --> 03:02:54,879
that drought. It took five years. Every time we boked it,

3432
03:02:55,159 --> 03:02:57,520
we let our cows in. They'd eat the leaves and

3433
03:02:57,639 --> 03:03:00,479
move them to another pasture. Those leaves can't come and back.

3434
03:03:01,120 --> 03:03:03,280
We laid the leaves in that session. We move them

3435
03:03:03,319 --> 03:03:07,559
back with cattle. They see most ultimate cattle food. They

3436
03:03:07,639 --> 03:03:13,239
destroy it. You cannot cattle Exac's why it's gone now.

3437
03:03:13,280 --> 03:03:16,360
Speaker 1: That fucking bison. Well all with bison probably nawing. And

3438
03:03:16,600 --> 03:03:21,079
that's probably why I have developed a huge underground tampero. Nah.

3439
03:03:21,399 --> 03:03:26,600
Speaker 2: Possibly hear the burning. Yeah, but at any rate, uh,

3440
03:03:27,639 --> 03:03:30,520
it's it isn't a very interesting plant. The Indians, I said,

3441
03:03:30,559 --> 03:03:33,120
use it as a cement, as a chewing gum. They

3442
03:03:33,280 --> 03:03:36,840
use it as an adhesive for arrowheads and pottery.

3443
03:03:36,959 --> 03:03:39,000
Speaker 1: Do you get around here anymore? And it's mostly you

3444
03:03:39,040 --> 03:03:39,280
know this.

3445
03:03:39,360 --> 03:03:40,879
Speaker 2: Is what this is what Kelly. It's one of the

3446
03:03:40,920 --> 03:03:43,360
reasons I took it because when it first, said Billy

3447
03:03:43,399 --> 03:03:45,360
Turrs said, you have to think about Sylphie went right

3448
03:03:45,399 --> 03:03:47,239
over to your burying, started pulling cheese. They were all

3449
03:03:47,280 --> 03:03:50,440
from my old neighborhood in Dallas. I mean literally a

3450
03:03:50,600 --> 03:03:53,360
quarter mile from where our house in Dallas was all.

3451
03:03:53,399 --> 03:03:56,440
He'll be all up, they'll get to Flint. It was.

3452
03:03:56,840 --> 03:03:59,280
You had to go thirty forty miles north of Dallas

3453
03:03:59,319 --> 03:04:01,639
to see one, but then it was thick between there

3454
03:04:01,639 --> 03:04:04,079
and the Red River. I went two years ago. I

3455
03:04:04,200 --> 03:04:09,360
couldn't find one in the North Tech. It's gone pretty

3456
03:04:09,399 --> 03:04:13,000
much from death. It was all over the hill every

3457
03:04:13,200 --> 03:04:17,680
fucking county in the Hill Country boasted. There were fifty

3458
03:04:17,840 --> 03:04:22,239
sixty specimens in every county in the Hill Country. Bandera County.

3459
03:04:23,719 --> 03:04:25,360
Speaker 1: Wow. How far west did it go?

3460
03:04:26,360 --> 03:04:32,120
Speaker 2: Hill Country? Rock Spring? About rock Spring that's here now?

3461
03:04:32,280 --> 03:04:36,200
Farther north? No, it went right up to the Colorado Wader. Wow.

3462
03:04:37,200 --> 03:04:40,959
Speaker 1: And it was just cattle and habitat loss that did.

3463
03:04:40,879 --> 03:04:42,959
Speaker 2: Animal habitat change cattle?

3464
03:04:44,600 --> 03:04:48,479
Speaker 1: Jesus man, you've seen in the forty it's such.

3465
03:04:48,399 --> 03:04:50,959
Speaker 2: Such a gorge. You should have seen the big ones.

3466
03:04:51,840 --> 03:04:53,719
The leaves on the big ones were the size of

3467
03:04:53,799 --> 03:04:54,280
this table.

3468
03:04:54,799 --> 03:04:55,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've never seen.

3469
03:04:56,760 --> 03:04:59,440
Speaker 2: I mean, you've seen Terra Methanasian with this leave yeah,

3470
03:05:00,200 --> 03:05:05,799
space monster. But the big listeny atims now I the

3471
03:05:05,879 --> 03:05:08,840
one thing that really got me. And I even bought

3472
03:05:08,879 --> 03:05:12,159
a fucking compass and looked, and I could never see

3473
03:05:12,319 --> 03:05:17,440
how anybody could construe that plant as aligning it's leaf margins.

3474
03:05:18,159 --> 03:05:22,959
Speaker 1: No, I never, I never. That's just better off not

3475
03:05:23,120 --> 03:05:26,079
using common names most of the time, you know, unless

3476
03:05:26,079 --> 03:05:28,040
it's the case where it's way.

3477
03:05:27,920 --> 03:05:33,399
Speaker 2: That thing isn't anyway fucking magnetic declination.

3478
03:05:34,239 --> 03:05:36,680
Speaker 1: Well that's that's three hours. I guess we'll end it there. Man,

3479
03:05:36,719 --> 03:05:41,040
thanks a lot for doing this and talk to you forever. Yeah, well,

3480
03:05:41,239 --> 03:05:43,760
let's just just do another one then. So all right, everybody,

3481
03:05:43,879 --> 03:05:47,600
uh Dan says, everybody, have a good rest of your day.

3482
03:05:47,719 --> 03:05:48,440
Go fuck yourselup.