Speaker 1: At a book.
Speaker 2: If you'd like to be able to listen to the
Speaker 2: show without ads and have full access to bonus content,
Speaker 2: that's an option. To find out how, please go to
Speaker 2: Dogmanencounters dot com Forward Slash Podcast. Tonight's guest is Nathan.
Speaker 2: Nathan Welcome to the show. Hi, Vic, good evening, Thank
Speaker 2: you well, thanks so much for being here. We appreciate
Speaker 2: your time. Nathan, please give us a brief.
Speaker 1: Bio on yourself. Sure, so, Yeah, my name is Nathan.
Speaker 1: I'm fifty five five years of age. I live in
Speaker 1: the UK and in the area of North Wales. So
Speaker 1: I'm coming on tonight because a friend of mine called
Speaker 1: Athena came on the other week and we've been talking
Speaker 1: about this because I introduced her to Vic's show and
Speaker 1: I've been a follower of the show since around twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: which was part of a coming to speak to everyone
Speaker 1: tonight and talk about my life and my experiences is
Speaker 1: part of a recent kind of twenty five year journey
Speaker 1: from an experience I had in the US in two
Speaker 1: thousand and one.
Speaker 2: You're starting to make me feel awe talking about listening
Speaker 2: to me since twenty sixteen. That's a while ago. You
Speaker 2: just mentioned that first encounter that you had twenty five
Speaker 2: years ago. Before you had that experience, did you take
Speaker 2: the whole cryptid phenomenon seriously or is a punche Well.
Speaker 1: Growing up in the seventies, I was introduced to Arthur C.
Speaker 1: Clark's Mysterious World. I'm sure there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: out there that might remember that. So I saw the
Speaker 1: Patterson Gimlin film when I was quite young. But also
Speaker 1: I had the books on everything, so I was always
Speaker 1: interested in mythology. And then as we get into this episode,
Speaker 1: you'll understand what happened to me along my life and
Speaker 1: how all of this seems to weave into my experience
Speaker 1: and the path that my life kind of took. Whether
Speaker 1: I liked that or not, it's very much interwoven. And
Speaker 1: that's why I wanted to come forward and speak, and
Speaker 1: I did wish to come forward sooner, but because of
Speaker 1: certain positions I held in life professionally and personally, I
Speaker 1: had to be very careful and consider it about my
Speaker 1: personal experiences or spiritual experiences, which a lot of people
Speaker 1: consider to be quite woo or quite far out, and
Speaker 1: that would have possibly compromised some of the things that
Speaker 1: I was doing at sort of local and national level.
Speaker 1: So I have also reached out to other podcasts, quite
Speaker 1: well renowned ones, but I got replies but never a
Speaker 1: follow up VIC. So it's kind of serendipity that it's
Speaker 1: come round to speaking to you, because you're the person
Speaker 1: that I've really kind of followed the longest, So it's
Speaker 1: really nice to finally connect with you and be part
Speaker 1: of the history of dog Man Encounters Radio.
Speaker 2: Well, thanks again for reaching out. I'm glad you did,
Speaker 2: and thanks too for sending a fena. I really appreciate
Speaker 2: you doing that as well, although from what I hear,
Speaker 2: you were kind of disappointed that you weren't able to
Speaker 2: come on last week's show with her.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she's so cheeky. We were in a friend's
Speaker 1: kitchen just discussing it, and I said, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: we should go on together because we were a great
Speaker 1: double at her and I and it's one of the
Speaker 1: great things about our friendship that we really bounce off
Speaker 1: each other with the crazy sense of humor, but we've
Speaker 1: also explored, you know, enough spiritual parts of ourselves with
Speaker 1: common experience that it's one of the reasons that we
Speaker 1: sort of connect so well. So when I was lying
Speaker 1: in bed in the early hours of the Saturday morning
Speaker 1: and put the podcast on, and I kind of fluffed
Speaker 1: the first part of the intro, didn't catch her name,
Speaker 1: and then she said, oh, I'm fifty I'm from North Wales.
Speaker 1: I thought, oh, wow, for somebody from North Wales. And
Speaker 1: then I realized who it was and I was like that,
Speaker 1: you cheeky cow. I was like, right, that does it.
Speaker 1: That does it. You've thrown down the gauntlet I'm getting
Speaker 1: in touch with. So yeah, as soon as it was daylight,
Speaker 1: I sent her a text and expressing my surprise and yeah,
Speaker 1: so she very kindly said, oh, I'll reach out of
Speaker 1: it for you like that. Yeah. Yeah, So it was
Speaker 1: It was funny, but you know, it's nice to finally
Speaker 1: sort of come on and talk about the kind of yeah,
Speaker 1: this side of my of my life's experience, which is definitely,
Speaker 1: you know, the more kind of strange but interesting side
Speaker 1: of it. And I hope that it just gives some
Speaker 1: of the listeners insights and comparisons to a lot of
Speaker 1: their experiences, both with dog men and with with susquatch,
Speaker 1: and compared to some of the things I've experienced in
Speaker 1: the UK, and obviously I'm someone that's had experiences in
Speaker 1: the UK, and then obviously I had that experien it's
Speaker 1: in the US in two thousand and one. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think there's a commonality in the phenomenon, and I
Speaker 1: hope that's what I can convey as a conclusion for people.
Speaker 1: In my mind anyway, and my experience.
Speaker 2: That's the thing about you. You're not going to just
Speaker 2: talk about the dog man encounters that you've had. It
Speaker 2: seems to me like you're a magnet for scary things
Speaker 2: for some reason. Scary things are just drawn to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And ever since I worked out that dog men
Speaker 1: are actually in the UK, I've said to you, have
Speaker 1: been a lot more careful about going out in the
Speaker 1: woods and up the hills and mountains at night by myself,
Speaker 1: which I used to love to do. But it made
Speaker 1: me very wary or just more considerate of what's around.
Speaker 1: Not that I've ever felt really in danger, but it's
Speaker 1: just an acknowledgment of because I've listened to so many
Speaker 1: episodes and found out that lot of places that I've
Speaker 1: been people in the UK have had sightings and experiences
Speaker 1: with these creatures. So it made me just sit up
Speaker 1: and take notice. Shall we say?
Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately, Nathan, I've got some bad news for you.
Speaker 2: Anytime I bring a guest on from overseas, most notably
Speaker 2: via UK, I get a lot of messages from people
Speaker 2: who live over there to let me know that it's
Speaker 2: all nonsense because there are no cryptids in the UK.
Speaker 2: It's too small, there's no place for them to live.
Speaker 2: So unfortunately, you didn't have any experiences that you've come
Speaker 2: on to tell us about tonight.
Speaker 1: Well, apparently not. And this has been something which I've
Speaker 1: I've been involved in in the kind of on my
Speaker 1: own spiritual journey for a long long time, since probably
Speaker 1: the age of nineteen and so I've got involved in
Speaker 1: the UFO field, and I've worked as a therapist. I
Speaker 1: still am a therapist. I'm a trained hit of therapist.
Speaker 1: But also I've worked and trained with people in the US,
Speaker 1: so I've had some really fantastic experiences. But one thing
Speaker 1: I've always been really really firm about is the fact
Speaker 1: that you cannot tell someone else they haven't experienced that
Speaker 1: thing because it's their experience. I mean, it's so arrogant
Speaker 1: to assume that you can say, well, I don't have
Speaker 1: that experience, therefore you can't have had it. And I
Speaker 1: think that that for me, because I've worked with so
Speaker 1: many people on so many different topics over the years,
Speaker 1: that for me, I now suspend all judgment or try
Speaker 1: to because we simply don't know. And I think that's
Speaker 1: as well in other aspects. In my reason for coming
Speaker 1: forward is we don't really understand. I feel we don't
Speaker 1: really understand the world that we live in. We live
Speaker 1: in a very narrow band of perception. There is much
Speaker 1: more going on around us, and I believe that what
Speaker 1: we're seeing with a lot of these phenomenas, should we say,
Speaker 1: is trying to show us that that's exactly the way
Speaker 1: things are. We don't have all the answers, and that's
Speaker 1: why I think people have encounters. Because people have had
Speaker 1: encounters from the most self aware people to people that
Speaker 1: are very down to earth and grounded, and that doesn't
Speaker 1: this seem to be any rhyme or reason why those
Speaker 1: encounters have happened to people. And in many cases you
Speaker 1: listen to the emotion in those people's voices when they're
Speaker 1: trying to convey what's gone on for them in a
Speaker 1: really traumatic experience that changed the course of their life forever.
Speaker 1: So I think we just need to be more compassionate
Speaker 1: and just say, you know what. We might have ideas,
Speaker 1: we might have opinions, but there's not one of us
Speaker 1: that's really an expert. And so I don't claim to
Speaker 1: be any kind of expert. I am an experiencer, I
Speaker 1: am a therapist. I've had my own journey in the
Speaker 1: kind of wu but I've also had a very grounded
Speaker 1: life and had an interesting journey in that path. And
Speaker 1: I don't think the modern material world is actually a
Speaker 1: very easy or safe place to navigate in general without
Speaker 1: piling on these you know, strange experiences that take us unawares.
Speaker 1: I'm probably somebody that's been more prepared for those experiences
Speaker 1: because of my early life and my childhood and the
Speaker 1: path that my life took, which I think when I
Speaker 1: get into that people will understand that, you know, there's
Speaker 1: been a lot of neglect in my childhood, a lot
Speaker 1: of abuse, but also that of pushed me into my
Speaker 1: spiritual life. And so I'm someone that's kind of walked
Speaker 1: a path where I've just tried to have a normal life,
Speaker 1: be happy, get on like everyone else, you know, have
Speaker 1: all the things and be a good person. It hasn't
Speaker 1: always worked out that way. And as I've got older,
Speaker 1: the challenges of my own mental health became far sharper
Speaker 1: to me. And for years I've been really resilient, and
Speaker 1: I think sometimes life just throws you a curveball and
Speaker 1: you hit that wall and you have to face up
Speaker 1: to what happened to you. So I'm not somebody that
Speaker 1: sits here and says, oh, you know, it's all about
Speaker 1: having a wonderful life. It's been very difficult, it's been
Speaker 1: very traumatic. I ended up being diagnosed with complex PTSD
Speaker 1: in about twenty eighteen. It took me four years to
Speaker 1: get that diagnosis, and I knew what was wrong with me.
Speaker 1: So it's quite a challenge, particularly as a man, you know,
Speaker 1: to get any help about your mental health, which is
Speaker 1: something that I've been working on and supporting other people
Speaker 1: and you know, creating projects which really supported men's mental
Speaker 1: health and tackled the sort of terrible problems of male
Speaker 1: suicide that we have in every first world nation, but
Speaker 1: particularly in the UK. So yeah, it's been a real journey.
Speaker 1: And so if you can get an idea of who
Speaker 1: I am as a person, it's like I feel like
Speaker 1: I've got a foot in both worlds, if you like,
Speaker 1: I can take on board the kind of more spiritual
Speaker 1: and supernatural experiences, but I also have been a very
Speaker 1: grounded and I'm a very grounded and practical person. I
Speaker 1: think that's probably what's allowed me to integrate those sides
Speaker 1: of myself, because I've always managed to keep it real,
Speaker 1: and when it's got too weird, I have just kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, walked away, put the whole thing down for
Speaker 1: a while, you know, can't out down something. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to go for a pint down the pub.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to go for a walk and forget
Speaker 1: about that. Just do something practical, because sometimes the mysterious
Speaker 1: side of things can get so weird. It gets so
Speaker 1: weird and so intangible that you drive yourself mad. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, like they say, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: you don't get the answer, doesn't become more clear, you
Speaker 1: just end up with more questions. So I think that's
Speaker 1: what a lot of people are finding in, particularly in
Speaker 1: this field. There's people that think they have a definitive answer,
Speaker 1: but then something else happens and you know, no, that
Speaker 1: wasn't the definitive answer. It's like it opens up a
Speaker 1: whole other world of questions. So for me, I think
Speaker 1: some of the things I want to share tonight are
Speaker 1: because there's things which I having listened to so many
Speaker 1: people's experiences that now for me it's like there's a
Speaker 1: connecting thread in between some of my experiences might help
Speaker 1: to fill those gaps with people. And if that's what
Speaker 1: I can do and it helps someone to integrate their
Speaker 1: experience or puts it into perspective for them, then job Dunvic.
Speaker 1: That's why I'm here.
Speaker 2: I think it's awfully impressive that even though you're dealing
Speaker 2: with the PTSD, you're dealing with due to your traumatic experiences,
Speaker 2: the fact that you still focus on helping other people
Speaker 2: who have been traumatized by their experiences come to terms
Speaker 2: with theirs. I think this say is everything about your
Speaker 2: altruistic character. I think it really does. But having said that,
Speaker 2: you've got a lot to unpack for us. Please tell
Speaker 2: us about your encounters now, give us a real last
Speaker 2: detail that comes to mind.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what really kicked off this journey has brought
Speaker 1: me here to speak to you and to the listeners tonight.
Speaker 1: Something happened in two thousand and one in a place
Speaker 1: called Mountain Ranch. And this is what really as it
Speaker 1: was coming round to the twentieth anniversary, I guess of
Speaker 1: that experience, trying to work out what exactly I had
Speaker 1: encountered became a valuable little journey of investigation, which led
Speaker 1: me to listen to dogman Encounters because the thing that
Speaker 1: I encountered, I wasn't sure whether it was a sasquatch,
Speaker 1: but the impression that I got was that this thing
Speaker 1: was canine. And at the time, and I'll get into
Speaker 1: more detail in it shortly, but at the time I
Speaker 1: couldn't understand what on earth I was picking up. Now
Speaker 1: I'll say picking up. What am I talking about? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm quite a sensitive I've got really good spider senses,
Speaker 1: if you like that. More than often not do turn
Speaker 1: out to be very very accurate. They don't always save
Speaker 1: me from everything in life, but I always get some
Speaker 1: kind of intuition or feeling about things. So yeah, it
Speaker 1: was a person, a kind of spiritual teacher, a man
Speaker 1: called Kem Paige, who I've been working with since nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety five. I began really that part of my spiritual journey.
Speaker 1: I'd worked with different spiritual teachers, but really because I'd
Speaker 1: had my own spiritual awakening, and everyone that I went
Speaker 1: on courses with just began to really sharpen and hone
Speaker 1: those experiences and those gifts and abilities. And so I
Speaker 1: went at the age of twenty four, just before my
Speaker 1: twenty fifth birthday, and because of my childhood, the trauma
Speaker 1: of my kind of upbringing, and the way that he
Speaker 1: had left me, feeling I never I was going to
Speaker 1: live past the age of twenty five. I had a
Speaker 1: really strong feeling that I was going to die before
Speaker 1: I was twenty five because my life had been pretty
Speaker 1: rough and it just seemed that that got into my head.
Speaker 1: So I went on this course in Austin, Texas, and
Speaker 1: at that time, as usual, I was usually one of
Speaker 1: the youngest people there because I was only in my
Speaker 1: early twenties. And working with Ken was fantastic because we
Speaker 1: had a really, really great connection and he taught me
Speaker 1: about being an EmPATH. Now, I know there's a lot
Speaker 1: of people that say, oh, yeah, I'm an EmPATH, I'm
Speaker 1: an EmPATH, they're an EmPATH. Well, for me, it's not
Speaker 1: a label, it's something which I am a living, breathing example,
Speaker 1: of as I've grown older. It was something which really
Speaker 1: really troubled me in younger life. But when I worked
Speaker 1: with Ken out there in the US in ninety five,
Speaker 1: it began to show me just how powerful that gift
Speaker 1: can be. Not only that, but it enabled me to
Speaker 1: differentiate with it and to be able to shut it
Speaker 1: down and switch it on to the point where now
Speaker 1: I can go into a crowded environment, although I find
Speaker 1: them still a little bit overwhelming, but I can shut
Speaker 1: that noise out otherwise it'll be overwhelming and really really
Speaker 1: difficult to handle. When I'm in a therapeutic setting, or
Speaker 1: I can focus on a single person to connect with,
Speaker 1: then I can pick up certain impressions or feelings or
Speaker 1: insights over thousands of miles. And there's people that I've
Speaker 1: gone on to recently in the last couple of years,
Speaker 1: I've gone into spaces on X on Twitter, We've been
Speaker 1: in some really great kind of encounter groups, experience the groups,
Speaker 1: and I've tuned into people over thousands of miles away
Speaker 1: and picked up exactly what's been going on with them
Speaker 1: on some level, be that physical, emotional, mental, or even
Speaker 1: sort of subconsciously, you know, an energy pattern around them.
Speaker 1: So that gift is something which I've used. I've used
Speaker 1: it therapeutically for years, but I've never really settled down
Speaker 1: and gone, this is the one thing that I do.
Speaker 1: There are people out there, some people call them medical intuitives.
Speaker 1: There's quite a few well renowned people that do exactly
Speaker 1: the sort of thing that I can do. So I
Speaker 1: kind of have often shelved that side of myself in
Speaker 1: life and just got on with what I needed to
Speaker 1: do what was in front of me, working jobs, keeping
Speaker 1: a house, you know, living a life. So yeah, what
Speaker 1: led me then was from nineteen ninety five life moved
Speaker 1: on and I bought a house, settled into a job,
Speaker 1: regular job, and then the advert came round from Ken
Speaker 1: that we were going to have a teacher training running
Speaker 1: in his new home in Mountain Ranch in California in
Speaker 1: April of two thousand and one. So I bought my
Speaker 1: house in the kind of August of that year, renovated it,
Speaker 1: moved into it in December, got my first credit card.
Speaker 1: So when the when the when the news came around
Speaker 1: that Ken was running his teacher training, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I've got a credit card, I'm booking a flight. I'm
Speaker 1: going because I felt like that the people that do
Speaker 1: the work, and I felt that I was more like
Speaker 1: part of the work. I would yeah, struggle to probably
Speaker 1: define what I mean by that, but for me, it
Speaker 1: was something which literally was part of my DNA. So
Speaker 1: it's a very advanced hypno therapeutic technique. So it involves
Speaker 1: exploring things like your deep subconscious mind, energy patterns, neural pathways.
Speaker 1: It can be path lives, parallel lives, we can use it,
Speaker 1: suity text illnesses and what their route causes. And it's
Speaker 1: a very very I mean, it's almost like wow, talk
Speaker 1: about a reality change, a game changer in terms of
Speaker 1: and I still don't think it has much of a
Speaker 1: parallel even to this day in terms of the power
Speaker 1: of that therapeutic medium. And it was called multi dimensional
Speaker 1: cellular healing, so it was about working with the cellular
Speaker 1: intelligence of your whole body, which is connected to your
Speaker 1: subconscious mind, which is part of our deeper consciousness. And
Speaker 1: so that's a really kind of really woo area, if
Speaker 1: you like. But it's fascinating when you tap into it
Speaker 1: and see the power of the subconscious mind or what
Speaker 1: it can do. So what went on was, yep, it
Speaker 1: was two thousand and one, the teacher training was advertised,
Speaker 1: so I jumped on a plane and got out to
Speaker 1: Mountain Ranch, California. Had a great time on the April training.
Speaker 1: Metal load of people, great people. Where they are. Their
Speaker 1: property that they had at the time was right out
Speaker 1: in the mountains. It was in the middle of a forest,
Speaker 1: built up on the side of a hill. About four
Speaker 1: hours I think it's about four hours inland from San Francisco,
Speaker 1: so you know, it's a journey to get there, but
Speaker 1: a beautiful, beautiful area old gold Rush country, as I recall.
Speaker 1: So the and I've met some really fantastic people, but
Speaker 1: I'm still friends with to this day, and a few
Speaker 1: of us that really connected. We would go outside and
Speaker 1: hang out, you know, at night talking. We made a
Speaker 1: little there was a little dell next to the house.
Speaker 1: We built a little fire pit there and so we'd
Speaker 1: sit around and you know, stories, talk about life, explore
Speaker 1: the kind of mysteries. We also just enjoying the ambience
Speaker 1: of being in that beautiful area with nothing and nobody
Speaker 1: really around. So after that training, I had some really
Speaker 1: really powerful experiences there and then came home, gone on
Speaker 1: with my everyday life, and then obviously the world had
Speaker 1: the very very sad and traumatic experience of nine to
Speaker 1: eleven in the September, and one of the people that
Speaker 1: i'd met on the course was a girl called April,
Speaker 1: who was about twenty one at the time. We became
Speaker 1: really good friends, and she came out to visit me
Speaker 1: and my partner in the UK. I put her on
Speaker 1: a plane on that morning, went back to my job.
Speaker 1: She was flying into or meant to fly into Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: I think, And I got a phone call from my
Speaker 1: girlfriend at the time saying, nath have you heard from April?
Speaker 1: And I'm sat at a desk in a job center
Speaker 1: and I said, well, no, why, she's still in the air.
Speaker 1: So I'm considered put her on a plane this morning.
Speaker 1: She said, oh, someone's attacked the twin towers. They've flown
Speaker 1: a plane and flat planes have hit the twin towers
Speaker 1: in New York. So I didn't know what to do
Speaker 1: because I'm sat there, you know, I've got a schedule
Speaker 1: of clients to see that day. But on my lunch
Speaker 1: hour I went out in the car and just drove
Speaker 1: where I was at the time. I could drive to
Speaker 1: the estuary of the sea and very very strange sort
Speaker 1: of experience. It took me obviously. I went home that
Speaker 1: night watched all the footage on the TV, all of
Speaker 1: the people dying and building swalling and all that chaos,
Speaker 1: and I had no idea whether my friend was alive
Speaker 1: or dead, and it really brought it home to me.
Speaker 1: But then I finally heard from her, probably about five
Speaker 1: days later, and she had actually been diverted out of
Speaker 1: the air to somewhere in Canada. She ended up, i
Speaker 1: think in the end, saying with these Canadian families for
Speaker 1: about two weeks before she could get home back to Philly.
Speaker 1: So yeah. Then Ken put the word round that he
Speaker 1: was running another training in November of two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: and so I said, okay, great, I'm going to come
Speaker 1: out again, support the training, meet new people. I'm one
Speaker 1: of the trainers now, so I'm going to be kind
Speaker 1: of participating but also on staff. And the modality would
Speaker 1: then he changed the name to Heart and Soul Healing.
Speaker 1: So obviously that trip to back to the US was
Speaker 1: very very different, because in the wake of nine to eleven,
Speaker 1: the US became a very very different place. I think
Speaker 1: the nation he were still very much hurting from it all.
Speaker 1: The shock, the trauma, and so you know, everyone was
Speaker 1: far more on edge. There was a lot more people
Speaker 1: around with weapons and obviously everyone flying the flag. So
Speaker 1: it wasn't as you know, pleasant a place as it
Speaker 1: had been in the earlier part of the year. The
Speaker 1: energy had changed quite a bit, and where they were
Speaker 1: in California, they'd had I think some wildfires that had
Speaker 1: really affected the landscape. They'd affected the water table turned
Speaker 1: I remember Ken's water actually the water supplying the well turning,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of yellow. And so there's been a
Speaker 1: lot of drought and then fire, so that the whole
Speaker 1: ecosystem was affected. But anyway, we sort of got there.
Speaker 1: April line met up, We got a hive car in
Speaker 1: San Francisco, drove out into the mountains and Kenneth sent
Speaker 1: a message to say when you come, don't drive up
Speaker 1: the main drive. We've just had it retarmacked resurfaced, so
Speaker 1: if you can park up somewhere and then come up
Speaker 1: and we'll let you through one of the other gates.
Speaker 1: So middle of the night, gets out to mountain ranch,
Speaker 1: finds their property, go past the gate to their drive,
Speaker 1: the gates shut and next to it, literally directly next
Speaker 1: to it. There was a little pull off. It looked
Speaker 1: like another little road going kind of off to the
Speaker 1: left up the hill. So barrenly in mind, you're surrounded
Speaker 1: by great, big, tall pine trees. There's nothing. I mean,
Speaker 1: the occasional lights you see from houses were very few
Speaker 1: and far between. Ken's property was illuminated. So we parked
Speaker 1: the car. The high car, walked up by the drive,
Speaker 1: went in, said hi, you know, had to chat to
Speaker 1: catch up, sat down, had a drink, and after about
Speaker 1: kind of ten minutes or so, I said, right, I'm
Speaker 1: going to go and you know, bring the car up
Speaker 1: and get the bags so on the back down and
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not really paying attention because I'm still
Speaker 1: kind of buzzing a bit jet lagged. You know, it's
Speaker 1: late in the evening, so I kind of strung out,
Speaker 1: put in a good space, got to the bottom of
Speaker 1: the hill down by the drive, turned left to go
Speaker 1: and see where the car was. That the car was gone.
Speaker 1: So yeah, like I've been traveling for nearly twenty four
Speaker 1: hours at this point, I'm so fired and strung out.
Speaker 1: So I don't know whether to be you know, completely
Speaker 1: enraged or just you know, laugh about it, or a
Speaker 1: mixture of both, because my bags and passport, everything's in
Speaker 1: the car. I mean, who is going to steal that
Speaker 1: car in the middle of nowhere? So I got back
Speaker 1: into the house and then there was a you know,
Speaker 1: a kind of a where's my car? You know, who
Speaker 1: on earth has taken the car? What is going on
Speaker 1: in this crazy place? So it Yeah, after a couple
Speaker 1: of phone calls, it turned out that the neighbor had
Speaker 1: kindly had it towed for us. So anyway, there was
Speaker 1: a few head in hands moments. It was like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: what have we got to do to just get this done?
Speaker 1: So we finally got taken into the middle of nowhere,
Speaker 1: middle of the night, paid the fine, got the car back,
Speaker 1: drove it back all the way, and then this time
Speaker 1: we were allowed to take it up the drive. So
Speaker 1: I took it up the drive. I've been up quite
Speaker 1: a steep little slope, probably about less than one hundred yards,
Speaker 1: and then it opened out into a round area which
Speaker 1: like a like a pull round I guess where you
Speaker 1: could come up and go round in front of the
Speaker 1: house and come back down. So I had like a
Speaker 1: sort of a you know, circular area at the top
Speaker 1: of the drive, and this was quite a steep slope,
Speaker 1: so and as you drove up to the top of
Speaker 1: the property would be on your right hand side and
Speaker 1: kind of going from right to left in front of you.
Speaker 1: And yeah, so I parked the car up on the
Speaker 1: on the kind of corner there, just sort of turned
Speaker 1: it right at the top of the drive and then
Speaker 1: went back in the house and we kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: could laugh about it a bit then, I suppose. So
Speaker 1: I said, okay, ll I'm going to go and get
Speaker 1: the bags this time. And I went outside, went round
Speaker 1: to the trunk of the car, put the key and
Speaker 1: popped the trunk, got my bag out to put my
Speaker 1: back down on the ground, and shut the trunk. All
Speaker 1: the hair stood up on the back of my neck
Speaker 1: and something was clearly near me. And then what I
Speaker 1: picked up was this thing. Whatever it was, just felt
Speaker 1: like it was quite a large thing. Shifted its position
Speaker 1: or it breathed, it did something like a shuffle like
Speaker 1: a and yeah, you go into that instant fight or flight,
Speaker 1: and something in my mind just said, don't run, just walk.
Speaker 1: And so to give you an idea of where this was,
Speaker 1: probably within a car's length of where the drive came
Speaker 1: up to meet the kind of pull in area the
Speaker 1: pull round. Because of the drive was built up on
Speaker 1: a bank and so was the pull round. It kind
Speaker 1: of made this little ninety degree angle where the two
Speaker 1: banks kind of met at ninety degrees, which made quite
Speaker 1: a little dip. And there were a few good sized
Speaker 1: fir trees in there, so it made that area quite camouflaged.
Speaker 1: But that thing was within a car's length of me
Speaker 1: when I felt it and when I heard it, so
Speaker 1: I had no idea what it was, but I did
Speaker 1: the kind of, you know, very swift and purposeful walk
Speaker 1: towards that front door, got in, shut the door, and
Speaker 1: I was like, WHOA, what was that? Now? Bearing in
Speaker 1: mind I live in the UK, I've been used to
Speaker 1: going up and down the hills and around the woods
Speaker 1: at night. I'm not really fazed by much because there's nothing, well,
Speaker 1: I didn't think there was much in the UK to
Speaker 1: ever really be wary of. Yeah, we've got rid of
Speaker 1: most of our large creatures and predator and and many
Speaker 1: many centuries ago, so there's really shouldn't be anything around.
Speaker 1: So when you pick up something and you are in
Speaker 1: technically a foreign country, then it becomes a questionable what
Speaker 1: was that? But it was clearly something and all I
Speaker 1: could say was it was it felt large, and it
Speaker 1: also felt quite sentient because it the way that it
Speaker 1: made that noise that were kind of like tough noise.
Speaker 1: It was almost like it was just shifting its posture
Speaker 1: a little bit and wasn't that interested in Well, it
Speaker 1: had me dead to rights. If it was a really
Speaker 1: serious predator, it would have had me right there and then,
Speaker 1: but it didn't. So you got in the house kind
Speaker 1: of put it out of my mind and just thought,
Speaker 1: maybe you're just being a bit, you know, a bit paranoid,
Speaker 1: or you're a bit you're a bit strung out still
Speaker 1: and you need to just sleep. So yeah, we had
Speaker 1: a few other people who there in the house sort
Speaker 1: of coming on the course with us, and so I
Speaker 1: ended up sleeping on the lounge floor on a camp
Speaker 1: bed that night. And then, you know, the property was
Speaker 1: kind of a little bit illuminated outside as I remember,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't that cold. And one of the windows, Now,
Speaker 1: obviously you have mesh screens on everything in the US,
Speaker 1: and so the screen was across the window by the
Speaker 1: front door, but I think the window itself was open,
Speaker 1: and I just woke up because I was lying behind
Speaker 1: the sofa on this camp bed, and I just woke
Speaker 1: up with this overwhelming concern of a feeling that this
Speaker 1: thing was going to jump through the mesh, almost like
Speaker 1: I could feel it poised to jump. And every fiber
Speaker 1: of my being was like, it's coming through the window.
Speaker 1: Whatever it is is coming through the window like a
Speaker 1: you know, was it a mountain line or something or
Speaker 1: something big on all fours, It's going to come through
Speaker 1: the window. So I got out of the bed, kept
Speaker 1: myself really low to the ground, kind of trying to
Speaker 1: duck under the window ledge come up and actually, like
Speaker 1: you know, shut the window and locked it and put
Speaker 1: the screen back and anyway, went back to bed. And
Speaker 1: so then the course went on for about five days.
Speaker 1: We had a lot of other people there milling around.
Speaker 1: It was a bit strange, and I just kept picking
Speaker 1: up this presence. And I remember halfway through the week
Speaker 1: going and talking to Ken. We were in the kitchen
Speaker 1: and his wife was there, and I was saying, you know,
Speaker 1: I know I can tell you stuff like this because
Speaker 1: you used to all the kind of like weird and
Speaker 1: weird stuff. But I still I swear we're being stalked.
Speaker 1: Something is out there. I can feel it. There's something
Speaker 1: stalking this group. It's drawn to us somehow. And Ken
Speaker 1: was like, what do you think it is? And I said, well, look,
Speaker 1: I get I don't know, but I said, what have
Speaker 1: you got around here? Because it feels like to me.
Speaker 1: I said, no, it's going to sound strange, but it
Speaker 1: feels like it is canine. And I said, like a
Speaker 1: big canine creature. But you know, I can't be sure.
Speaker 1: So that point is whif sort of said to me, Oh,
Speaker 1: it was funny you should say that, because only a
Speaker 1: few days ago the neighbor from down the hill here
Speaker 1: in front of us. The neighbor called us and said,
Speaker 1: you need to be aware that there is a great,
Speaker 1: big black feral dog roaming round. We've seen it. It's
Speaker 1: come through our property. It was heading towards your property
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So she said, well, maybe that's what
Speaker 1: you're picking up. I said, well, yeah, it could be,
Speaker 1: I said, but you know, I'm just very aware of it.
Speaker 1: So yeah. The course went on. We did a couple
Speaker 1: of things, like went out and did a sweat lodge
Speaker 1: down in the neighboring town, and then kind of came
Speaker 1: back and then yeah, the course wasn't really as much
Speaker 1: fun as the last one. There was a few discordant
Speaker 1: personalities on it and it made it a bit more,
Speaker 1: you know, a bit less enjoyable than the first time round,
Speaker 1: but you know, just got on with it and so on.
Speaker 1: One of the sort of last nights, Oh yeah, that
Speaker 1: was got to the point where Ken was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we've got too many people in the house. Do you
Speaker 1: want to go out, you know, so we can make
Speaker 1: some space, you know, would you be happy because you're
Speaker 1: one of the guys, would you be happy to go
Speaker 1: out and sleep in the back of this guy, Mike,
Speaker 1: one of the guys was there, great guy, and would
Speaker 1: you be happy to go and sleep out in the
Speaker 1: back of Mike's truck? And I was like, well, not
Speaker 1: unless you're going to give me a gun. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you get in. I told you there's something out there.
Speaker 1: We're being stalked. I was like, you can't just put
Speaker 1: me out there like I'm a piece of prey, like
Speaker 1: a piece of bait. I was like, can you please
Speaker 1: take it seriously? So anyway, I didn't, you know, I
Speaker 1: wasn't made to go and sleep out in the truck,
Speaker 1: but like a day later or two days later, myself
Speaker 1: in April went out, sat down, had a little campfire
Speaker 1: going out in the dell, and so you came out
Speaker 1: of the front door of the property, you'd go literally
Speaker 1: to the right, there's like a white beam fence and
Speaker 1: a gap in the fence where you come through like
Speaker 1: the gate round to the right into the dell. It was, yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously not that late at night, but it was still
Speaker 1: pitch black because it's obviously winter. We had the fire
Speaker 1: ache there and a great big flash flight. So we're
Speaker 1: in there for probably an hour, chatting away, just hanging out.
Speaker 1: And then in the woodline, the woodline which was kind
Speaker 1: of directly ahead from us, probably i'd say no more
Speaker 1: than a one hundred and fifty feet up the most,
Speaker 1: if I'm trying to guess, to make as memory serves,
Speaker 1: there's a load of kind of commotion, and directly in
Speaker 1: front of us, a great, big white tailed deer appears, turns,
Speaker 1: comes running out of the woodline. I don't know whether
Speaker 1: it saw us, probably saw us. It turns literally night
Speaker 1: degrees to its left straight away, runs straight down the woodline,
Speaker 1: running parallel to the woodline, but more obviously in the open,
Speaker 1: and then it's followed by four others in swift succession.
Speaker 1: And you know, they're big animals, you know, So like
Speaker 1: I say, when we see a deer in the UK,
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a surprise because they're so rare here,
Speaker 1: and obviously they're much more like a you know, a
Speaker 1: pet animal. If you see one, obviously one in the world,
Speaker 1: it's quite an enigma. So I was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: you know, big deer. And then something else came forward,
Speaker 1: and by this time I grabbed the flashlight and I
Speaker 1: was holding the flashlight onto the the kind of game
Speaker 1: trail bit in the in the wood life, I suppose
Speaker 1: where they were coming through. And then what appeared was
Speaker 1: a pair of large forward facing eyes, and so April said, oh,
Speaker 1: what is that Is that another deer And I just
Speaker 1: immediately said, no, it's got forward facing eyes. That's a predator.
Speaker 1: And she said, oh, I said, whatever that is that
Speaker 1: was chasing the deer anyway. I mean, we had a
Speaker 1: big campfire going. I've got a big flashlight full on
Speaker 1: this thing's face. It just stopped just inside the woodline.
Speaker 1: At the distance it was, I would estimate that its
Speaker 1: eyes which were like large. They did give off a
Speaker 1: kind of greeny yellow eyeshine and it blinked, but it
Speaker 1: didn't flee. It stood its ground and just stayed there,
Speaker 1: fixated on us. And what it reminded me of was,
Speaker 1: you know when you see a wall for a big
Speaker 1: predator when they kind of like hunkered down and they
Speaker 1: lower their head and really focus on their prey before
Speaker 1: they lunge. It looked or felt exactly like that. Now,
Speaker 1: this flashlight was a very powerful flashlight, but it could
Speaker 1: not pick up or illuminate this thing's features. It was
Speaker 1: like it was blacker than black, almost like it absorbed
Speaker 1: the light, and all you saw were these massive eyes.
Speaker 1: So I've always said that the head on this thing
Speaker 1: must have been the size of a big male Bengal
Speaker 1: tiger or bigger, really big, because of the how far
Speaker 1: the eyes were apart, probably about the you know, almost
Speaker 1: like the spam of my hand if I open up
Speaker 1: my thumb and my forefingers, you know, almost probably I
Speaker 1: don't know, five or six inches apart. It's a big
Speaker 1: head on whatever it was. And I just didn't think
Speaker 1: you had anything in the US that large. I don't
Speaker 1: think mountain lions get anything like that large. Plus I
Speaker 1: didn't think it would stay and kind of have a
Speaker 1: Mexican stand off with us, So I didn't waste any time,
Speaker 1: and I said to April, right hold the flashlight, keep
Speaker 1: it on its face. I'm going to grab the fire ache.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to get in the house. And so
Speaker 1: in those kind of moments you just sort of for me,
Speaker 1: I just shut down into what's kind of practical on
Speaker 1: what you just need to do to survive. This thing
Speaker 1: just just watched us intently, and we had to go
Speaker 1: forward a little bit towards it diagonally to get round
Speaker 1: this fence, this white fence, to get into the house.
Speaker 1: So we had to kind of come forward about sort
Speaker 1: of twenty feet before we could run back towards the house.
Speaker 1: So we didn't turn our backs on it, kept facing
Speaker 1: it and I said, keep that light right in its face.
Speaker 1: So we managed to get back into the house. And
Speaker 1: you know that it was a bit like, well, what
Speaker 1: was that? Sorry? Big? But yeah, it really was like
Speaker 1: what on earth was that? What could it be? But
Speaker 1: it felt like that it was coming towards the end
Speaker 1: of the course, and it finally showed itself and just
Speaker 1: menaced us but didn't try and attack us. Yeah, very
Speaker 1: very strange. So and then obviously I came back. Well,
Speaker 1: we started heading back, we went off traveling to Santa
Speaker 1: Cruz and then a message. Ken and his wife had
Speaker 1: bought a couple of baby goats, and after the course
Speaker 1: had finished, they went out and got these baby goats
Speaker 1: and they kind of took them back to the house
Speaker 1: and where they had some you know, sort of like
Speaker 1: a in the kind of backyard area. I can't remember
Speaker 1: if they had horses or I think they might have
Speaker 1: had some stables area. Anyway, they tied these these baby
Speaker 1: goats these kids up outside and so, you know, less
Speaker 1: than a week later, a few days later, we got
Speaker 1: a message through by email because there wasn't any incident
Speaker 1: at that time, saying that the baby goats had been shredded.
Speaker 1: Literally they came out one morning and the goats were
Speaker 1: just shredded, like torn to pieces. And then the kind
Speaker 1: of question began, you know, almost like a witch hunt
Speaker 1: of whose negative energy created this happening. And one of
Speaker 1: the guys that have been on the course was an
Speaker 1: ex cop and he was like, yeah, hang on, what
Speaker 1: about this big black dog thing that was going around
Speaker 1: and I was like, I told you there was a
Speaker 1: predator going round. It's like, no, this was something else.
Speaker 1: We were being stalked. You put live food in temptation
Speaker 1: in its way, and it basically shredded your goats, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was a bit. Anyway, it just created
Speaker 1: a big rift in the kind of group in the community,
Speaker 1: and I think people were sort of like pointing fingers
Speaker 1: and saying, oh, this person said this and that person
Speaker 1: said that. So anyway, it sort of created a big
Speaker 1: sort of aftermath. But I just went home and kind
Speaker 1: of got on with life. But the memory of that
Speaker 1: never left me, and so I began to, like I say,
Speaker 1: as a twentieth anniversary was approaching, I began to sort
Speaker 1: of think about, well, what was that was I had
Speaker 1: I had an encounter with a sas squatch? Or was
Speaker 1: what was this thing about it being a canine? Now
Speaker 1: there wasn't really any Internet at the time, like I said,
Speaker 1: so we had never had the chance to sort of
Speaker 1: research and get into any depth in it. And the
Speaker 1: whole dog man phenomenon had never been on my radar
Speaker 1: or I don't think many other people's radar. So that's
Speaker 1: when I saw a couple of I think there was
Speaker 1: some spoof YouTube videos about the dog man, and that's
Speaker 1: where it kind of led me. And eventually I, you know,
Speaker 1: found Vic's podcast and began listening to the episodes, and
Speaker 1: it finally sort of made sense that we although there
Speaker 1: have been reports of sasquatch in Mountain Ranch, California over
Speaker 1: the years, that what I had encountered I'm sure was
Speaker 1: a dog man. And so obviously the more I've listened
Speaker 1: to the encounters, the more it's kind of brought back
Speaker 1: other memories from my own life, right from early childhood.
Speaker 1: So I begun to see that there is a pattern
Speaker 1: with these things that I have encountered them for a
Speaker 1: long time in my life. That encounter in the US
Speaker 1: was a very physical and real one that was a
Speaker 1: real creature wherever it was, it clearly had intelligence and
Speaker 1: it had real presence. So other times I've had the
Speaker 1: encounters have been very different. And I was explaining this
Speaker 1: to Vic when we first spoke, that the earliest memory
Speaker 1: I have from my childhood and I still see it
Speaker 1: vividly now in my mind. So I because it was
Speaker 1: so long ago, I can't tell you whether this is
Speaker 1: a dream or where this is a real memory, but
Speaker 1: it's absolutely clear. And where I was born in England
Speaker 1: in the UK back in nineteen seventy was a little
Speaker 1: town called Holebridge, and that is in Essex, in the
Speaker 1: County of Essex, and it's on a river called the
Speaker 1: River Crouch. One of the early episodes I remember listening
Speaker 1: to somewhere along my journey with investigating this, and I
Speaker 1: think it may have been on one of the early
Speaker 1: episodes of Vic's podcast was somebody from the UK reporting
Speaker 1: an experience of being chased across a bridge over the
Speaker 1: River Crouch by some kind of werewolf creature. Now that
Speaker 1: made me go oh, Now Holebridge was on the River Crouch.
Speaker 1: So the ex which I think was it a dream
Speaker 1: or is it a memory? Well maybe these things are connected.
Speaker 1: So where the house was was on a bit of
Speaker 1: low lying flat land right at the bottom of the
Speaker 1: little town and it's a really tiny town, like a
Speaker 1: one road town down to the river. But where we
Speaker 1: were was on the lower part than the town. Kind
Speaker 1: of the road went up a little hill and then
Speaker 1: straight and then it obviously ended in the River Crouch.
Speaker 1: So we're right at the start, not far from the
Speaker 1: main road. There's a little supermarket on the corner of
Speaker 1: the road. As you kind of come you turn left,
Speaker 1: go up the road and take your eventually to the river.
Speaker 1: But on the left was a little supermarket back in
Speaker 1: the seventies. And then the house I was born in
Speaker 1: was the next property with an adjoining wall into the
Speaker 1: car park of the supermarket. So the house I was
Speaker 1: born in had a relatively long garden, probably about one
Speaker 1: hundred feet long or so, big willow trees at the
Speaker 1: end of it, but dividing it from the neighboring property
Speaker 1: was a huge hawthorn hedge. It was extremely dark, very thick,
Speaker 1: very dense, obviously very thorny. It was probably about fifteen
Speaker 1: feet high, at least ten maybe fifteen feet high, really
Speaker 1: big hedge, ancient hedge. So the memory is I've come
Speaker 1: out of the back door onto the patio which had
Speaker 1: steps down into the garden. I'm only very little, I'm
Speaker 1: about two, but I'm walking and i can see myself clearly,
Speaker 1: my little body, my little face. I can see I'm
Speaker 1: wearing a nappy or you know, little pants, bare legs,
Speaker 1: and I've gone down the garden. Now it's very early morning,
Speaker 1: it's a very misty morning, so it's still sort of
Speaker 1: not semi darkness, but that's time before dawn. And I've
Speaker 1: walked down the middle of the garden and I've looked
Speaker 1: to my right and turned to my right, and there's
Speaker 1: the Hawthorne Hedge towering above me. And in the midst
Speaker 1: on top of this hedge, there are a collection of
Speaker 1: figures of creatures, all fur covered, all very supernatural looking,
Speaker 1: ranging seven to eight feet high, some with tails, some
Speaker 1: with not tails, but they all have long snouts of
Speaker 1: different description. They don't look particularly wolf like, but they
Speaker 1: are all very much along that line, large hair covered
Speaker 1: creatures with long muzzles with teeth, fearsome looking things to
Speaker 1: behold in the mist, but they are almost appearing supernatural,
Speaker 1: because how could something so heavy stand or sit on
Speaker 1: that Hawthorne hedge without crushing it entirely. So I wasn't afraid.
Speaker 1: I remember just looking up and they just acknowledged me.
Speaker 1: And I say, that's the strangest part of it, that
Speaker 1: they were there to simply acknowledge my being, that acknowledged
Speaker 1: me coming into incarnation, if you like that. I was
Speaker 1: there and I was sentient aware and could walk, but
Speaker 1: there was about I would say there was about seven
Speaker 1: of them at the most, it might have been five.
Speaker 1: It's hard to remember because it is a very strange impression,
Speaker 1: but that is what I have left, and that's my
Speaker 1: earliest earliest memory back from childhood. So it was only
Speaker 1: when I began to connect with Vick's show that I
Speaker 1: began to sort of put some of this stuff together
Speaker 1: and say, well, there seems to be a strange theme.
Speaker 1: What are these things? These are clearly supernatural beings that
Speaker 1: I saw. But then I have obviously had a physical encounter,
Speaker 1: so so that would have been around nineteen seventy two.
Speaker 1: Then there's another memory where it kind of broke the
Speaker 1: dream of it, when I might went on a family
Speaker 1: holiday my NaN's side of the family, my mum's mum.
Speaker 1: They were from Wales, so we used to try and
Speaker 1: get back for a Welsh holiday into South Wales when
Speaker 1: we lived in Essex, and this would have been around
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three. So we went off with Nan and Grandad,
Speaker 1: traveled all the way across land. It's quite a way
Speaker 1: from the east right into the west of South Wales,
Speaker 1: and there was a point in the journey it was
Speaker 1: late at night and we seem to have stopped at
Speaker 1: al pub and it seemed to be in the middle
Speaker 1: of nowhere. So me being a little kid, I've probably
Speaker 1: got bored. It's you know, adults sat around having a
Speaker 1: drink after they're having a break from the driving. And
Speaker 1: so Nan offers to take me outside, and so I
Speaker 1: remember going out of the door with her, and then
Speaker 1: we kind of so this pub was on a little road.
Speaker 1: I have no idea where this place was, I couldn't
Speaker 1: tell you, but we sort of turned to the right
Speaker 1: and it seemed that that, you know, the the one
Speaker 1: kind of remaining light on the road, or the lights
Speaker 1: outside the pub. It faded into darkness, and there seemed
Speaker 1: to be a farm yard next to this pub. So
Speaker 1: you came out the pub, turned right the farm. He
Speaker 1: oldould have been along that side, at least there was
Speaker 1: a gate. And so I had this memory years ago,
Speaker 1: and all I remember was Nan was taking me down there.
Speaker 1: Then we saw a bunch of orange eyes, and the
Speaker 1: next thing, my nana's panicked and she's grabbed me. She ran,
Speaker 1: she fell over, really cut her arm and her knee,
Speaker 1: and she's got me inside the publem there's a huge panic.
Speaker 1: Now for years I mean, my nan grew up in
Speaker 1: you know, the early part of the century, and they
Speaker 1: had a lot of rats in the old houses that
Speaker 1: used to live in. So as a kid, she was
Speaker 1: terrified because the rats used to be inside the walls
Speaker 1: and she had a massive fear of rats. And so
Speaker 1: what she said was she had seen these orange eyes
Speaker 1: and she thought it was a rat migration. So for
Speaker 1: many many years I just kept that memory as well,
Speaker 1: that's what it. Maybe it was rats. Never thought about
Speaker 1: it until you start to realize about the kind of
Speaker 1: common thread amongst the experiences with dog men of orange eyes.
Speaker 1: And when I remember, and I've sat down and kind
Speaker 1: of meditated and go back into that memory, well, what
Speaker 1: I remember was not seeing a sea of rats on
Speaker 1: the floor with a multitude of eye shine. I remember
Speaker 1: distinctly seeing about five or six sets of amber eyes
Speaker 1: open in that gateway in the darkness. These eyes appeared,
Speaker 1: and they weren't on the ground, and they weren't timely
Speaker 1: like rat size. They were big. They were all probably
Speaker 1: about five or six feet off the ground. There was
Speaker 1: a couple of larger ones, and then there was a
Speaker 1: couple of smaller ones. So I remember larger ones were
Speaker 1: on the sort of left hand side and the smaller
Speaker 1: ones kind of going down to the right. But about
Speaker 1: five six sets of eyes opened and that's when my
Speaker 1: Nan screamed and panicked and ran. So I think what
Speaker 1: we had was an encounter in South Wales in the
Speaker 1: early seventies, and to me it's made sense now that well, no,
Speaker 1: that was probably more a hunting pack of dog men
Speaker 1: and that's why Nan ran, but she couldn't process what
Speaker 1: they would be and obviously it's taken me decade to
Speaker 1: figure this out. So that happened a few years later,
Speaker 1: no more than sort of nineteen seventy five, my mum
Speaker 1: and dad split up. There was a very messy breakup,
Speaker 1: very traumatizing for me. I ended up living with my
Speaker 1: nan and granddad for a while. My mum then sat
Speaker 1: up home with my now ex stepfather and I was
Speaker 1: kind of six, I think, before I went to live
Speaker 1: with them, and then one year into the relationship, we
Speaker 1: went to It was Halloween and my stepfather's kind of
Speaker 1: troubled alcoholic older brother, Andy's wife had moved to this
Speaker 1: place in Harriage, which is a town on the kind
Speaker 1: of east coast of the UK in Suffolk County of Suffolk,
Speaker 1: and it was Halloween, so we drove up there and
Speaker 1: this house was on a kind of development where this
Speaker 1: was probably one of the last properties on this plot
Speaker 1: of land, and it was on a bit of a hill.
Speaker 1: It looked over this kind of waste ground going down,
Speaker 1: I suppose, over the other developments into the town, so
Speaker 1: it was sort of at the top of a hill
Speaker 1: and kind of out there wasn't it wasn't surrounded by
Speaker 1: lots of other properties. There was probably a couple of
Speaker 1: other properties where this development just sort of finished. So
Speaker 1: there was a little sort of seven year old kid.
Speaker 1: I'm there and it's all adult stuff, you know, adults
Speaker 1: getting drunk, and I was misbehaving, picking up on all
Speaker 1: the weird stuff going on. And then my mother, who yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely was a very odd individual, decided it be great
Speaker 1: if we did a weiji aboard, which everyone was like, oh, okay, yeah, great,
Speaker 1: you know, and I thought, oh no, don't do that,
Speaker 1: and you know, you're like a seven year old kid,
Speaker 1: and you think that's terrifying. So they got bits of
Speaker 1: paper out, wrote in all the alphabet you know, all
Speaker 1: the sort of yes no things, got a glass and
Speaker 1: all sat around the kind of like pine dining room
Speaker 1: table up against the wall, and just I had to
Speaker 1: sit there with him. I had nowhere else to go,
Speaker 1: some kind of like sat in one corner. Well, these
Speaker 1: four adults get their hands on the glass. Then they
Speaker 1: start asking it questions led by my mother. I look
Speaker 1: back on it now and you just think, what on
Speaker 1: earth were you thinking subjecting a little child to a
Speaker 1: wiji aboard? And I think, if that gives you any eye,
Speaker 1: what kind of person that she was probably still is.
Speaker 1: It's why I have nothing to do with her anymore
Speaker 1: in my life, because that's a really frightening, terrifying thing,
Speaker 1: and to do without any consideration of a kid, It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you've got to have some screws loose in there somewhere.
Speaker 1: So anyway, this is when I first became aware of
Speaker 1: my ability to sense things because as they're doing this
Speaker 1: weage board, I'm sitting there in kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: not abject terror, but I'm pretty scared, and I kind
Speaker 1: of closed my eyes and I'm wanting it to be
Speaker 1: over well, as I what was really scaring me was
Speaker 1: the fact that as they're doing the wage board and
Speaker 1: it's Halloween night, I can feel this horde, this sea
Speaker 1: of entities, discorporate spirits, all kind of horrible things, ghosts,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call them, astrol entities literally being
Speaker 1: drawn like moths to a flame, to this wigiaboard. And
Speaker 1: it terrified me because I could feel them all around,
Speaker 1: coming closer and gathering around this wigia board going on.
Speaker 1: So as it progress, and I'm getting more and more
Speaker 1: kind of like looking, you know, either way around me thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: they're coming through the windows, coming through the doors. We
Speaker 1: are literally surrounded by a sea of them. They're all
Speaker 1: they're watching being drawn to it and anyway, so they're
Speaker 1: going anyway this So the glass began to spin around
Speaker 1: the table like and it gets heavier and heavier to
Speaker 1: the point where it's starting to go. It's actually been
Speaker 1: beginning to scratch the varnish on the surface of this table,
Speaker 1: and all four of these adults are lurching things going around,
Speaker 1: and it got it grew to this literally this crescendo,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't bear it any longer, and in my
Speaker 1: mind I just yelled stop. And this glass it was
Speaker 1: like somebody had smacked it with a fist. It literally
Speaker 1: stopped like it had been bolted to the table, their
Speaker 1: hands all flung off it, and then it kind of
Speaker 1: like the energy bursts and my little mind just went, oh,
Speaker 1: I can change it, I can affect it. So it's
Speaker 1: a very strange but very kind of adult comprehension of
Speaker 1: something for a seven year old, so particilarly on that
Speaker 1: kind of level, and it seemed to disperse all of
Speaker 1: the entities. It seemed to shift the whole thing. But
Speaker 1: I think it shocked they didn't try and attempt to
Speaker 1: do it again. That was it that they were like, aha, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, well that was a bit scary, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: Let's put it all away. So yeah, a very very strange,
Speaker 1: strange experience. So from there on end, I would go
Speaker 1: and see my dad every sort of three weeks to
Speaker 1: a month. Back in their six dad was really into
Speaker 1: his movies. He was one of those people at Love's Gadgets,
Speaker 1: so he had the first kind of VCR and we
Speaker 1: used to go to the video shop. Now, American Werewolf
Speaker 1: in London came out in nineteen eighty one. Sorry, I
Speaker 1: remember watching that age eleven. I still think it's an
Speaker 1: amazing film, pretty terrifying. Yeah, never want to catch myself
Speaker 1: on the moors at night. Although I went on to
Speaker 1: do that in adult life now I wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1: But also at that time, my dad's half sister, my
Speaker 1: aunt Denise, had married a tech sergeant in the USAF
Speaker 1: and so she got back in touch with my mum.
Speaker 1: They were always quite good mates, and turns out they
Speaker 1: were living in Suffolk on Woodbridge Air Base, which is
Speaker 1: in Randalsham Forest, as people might know who are into
Speaker 1: that subject. So there's a whole other experience that I
Speaker 1: had around Randalsham Forest in nineteen eighty one. But in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two, so I met my American cousins Eric
Speaker 1: and Tom and her husband Dean, and I got to
Speaker 1: tour the Woodbridge base as it was a USAF base
Speaker 1: with the A Tens station there, and went to the
Speaker 1: open days and you got to do trick or treat
Speaker 1: for the first time in my life in nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: one for Halloween. The following year we ended up traveling.
Speaker 1: My stepdad worked for an American company CICAA. I think
Speaker 1: they combined insurance of something of America. But they had
Speaker 1: a big event on and everyone was invited over. We
Speaker 1: ended up going to Florida, traveling around, and then Denise
Speaker 1: and Dean had moved back to Edwards's Air Force Space,
Speaker 1: so they'd arrange for us to go over and say
Speaker 1: the second part of the holiday. My little brother, a
Speaker 1: half brother, had been born in nineteen eighty one. He
Speaker 1: stayed with my nan and so it was myself, my mum,
Speaker 1: and my stepdad that traveled out there because he was
Speaker 1: only a baby in arms, he was too young to
Speaker 1: kind of travel. So yeah, I had a very interesting
Speaker 1: experience over in Edward's Air Force Space and traveling around
Speaker 1: all of the sites there in the Harvey Desert, going
Speaker 1: off into Nevada, and so yeah, there's missing time from
Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle of Nevada that's never quite ever
Speaker 1: been recovered no matter what I've done, but who knows.
Speaker 1: But what I remember seeing out there was the first
Speaker 1: time I watched the howling, and how terrifying that was
Speaker 1: always and the enduring memory of the scene where the
Speaker 1: person tries to hide in the woodpile and the werewolf's
Speaker 1: arm kind of comes after them. I can still see
Speaker 1: it now vividly in my mind. So yeah, coming back
Speaker 1: into the UK, and there's been some sort of interesting experiences.
Speaker 1: I've gone and joined the air Cadets. I've met my
Speaker 1: lifelong friends Rich and Lance, the twins that I've known
Speaker 1: for years. You know, we sort of get to hang out.
Speaker 1: And then there was an encounter one night in probably
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four to eighty five. School disco, well not
Speaker 1: school disco now is disco a young person's disco, like
Speaker 1: a youth you know, disco organized in a town. It's
Speaker 1: probably about ten miles away from the little village that
Speaker 1: I ended up living in, and I got let down
Speaker 1: by my lift, but a couple of the ads that
Speaker 1: I knew said, oh, don't worry, you can get a
Speaker 1: lift back with us. And they were in a So
Speaker 1: the small village that I lived in was a village
Speaker 1: called a Little wolding Field, and there was a neighboring
Speaker 1: village called Great wolding Field, which had its church nearly
Speaker 1: in the boundaries of a Little wolding Field. The town
Speaker 1: that the guys were going to was a place called Labanon.
Speaker 1: It's a really really old town in Suffolk. So they said, well,
Speaker 1: we'll drop you off on the way, and I thought, great,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to walk back. It's full moon
Speaker 1: and I've kind of you know, got my dancing shoes on.
Speaker 1: It's sixty eighties were all into you know, the baggy
Speaker 1: chinos and the kind of pastoral colored shirts. And so anyway,
Speaker 1: there's two ways to get to Labanon. You can kind
Speaker 1: of follow the main main road or you could go
Speaker 1: through the little woldingfield. So the taxi they were in
Speaker 1: drives up and then says, oh, yeah, well, okay, we'll
Speaker 1: drop you here now. And I was like, oh, you're
Speaker 1: not going through my village and they were like no, no,
Speaker 1: We're we're going straight up here. And it suddenly maybe
Speaker 1: go oh no, because it's about a mile and a
Speaker 1: half back to the village from that junction. So picture it.
Speaker 1: It's like the archetypal horror film setting. You step out
Speaker 1: of the taxi, your friends like buy zoom, off they
Speaker 1: go the roads in front of you. Now, Suffolk is
Speaker 1: quite flat. Generally it's all corn fields. Yeah, so it's
Speaker 1: great full Moon over to my right. Across the fields
Speaker 1: there is the medieval church of Great wilding Field, and
Speaker 1: there is a good mile and a half of road
Speaker 1: between where I've stood and my house. So I start
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, okay, off we're going. Let's just
Speaker 1: get this done. Start walking, Probably about a couple of
Speaker 1: hundred yards on the left, there was a house of
Speaker 1: a guy I knew from years. I always with one
Speaker 1: of my younger friends, and he lived there with his mom.
Speaker 1: Maybything was quite dark, so I walked past that house
Speaker 1: is set off the road, and there was always this
Speaker 1: little piece as the road went ahead, it went up
Speaker 1: a little bank, like a little rise, not very much,
Speaker 1: bent round, and then kind of went straight again either side.
Speaker 1: Now it was I think it was like a culvert
Speaker 1: over what would have been a brook, a little stream
Speaker 1: of some kind. But it had really dense and always
Speaker 1: had had dense, really dense kind of hawthorn, thickets and
Speaker 1: trees all around it. It was always a patch of
Speaker 1: ground I never liked crossing, and I was always wary
Speaker 1: of it. So obviously that's the kind of in my
Speaker 1: mind that, oh, I've got to go past that piece
Speaker 1: of ground. Anyway, as I'm walking on the last bit
Speaker 1: of road that's bordered by the cornfields, I'm looking across
Speaker 1: to the old church across this cornfields as like a heads,
Speaker 1: like a little bank, then like a cornfield, and the
Speaker 1: dividing hedgerow in that field, there was a very small
Speaker 1: tree and it had a kind of interesting sort of
Speaker 1: little dome shape. I think it might have been a
Speaker 1: young oak tree or something like that, but it was no, No,
Speaker 1: it was probably less than ten feet tall, wasn't very big,
Speaker 1: and for some reason I just got fixated on it,
Speaker 1: and I remember looking across at it, and I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm staring at this tree. And as I looked at it,
Speaker 1: it was suddenly violently shaken, like somebody had got hold
Speaker 1: of it and just gone and shook it. Saw the
Speaker 1: leaves are rustling, and it's shaken like mad. Now it's
Speaker 1: a big enough tree that you'd have had to have
Speaker 1: been a pretty strong guy to shake it like that.
Speaker 1: And there was no animal that's going to be shaking
Speaker 1: a tree of that size so hard. There's nothing out there.
Speaker 1: I can't understand why there would be anybody out there
Speaker 1: anyway that was waiting for me to walk past, and
Speaker 1: then you know, saw me across the field and decided
Speaker 1: to shake it just to terrorize me. So I never
Speaker 1: saw what did that, and I can tell you now
Speaker 1: that I didn't hang around to find out what did that.
Speaker 1: I ran for my life as fast as I could
Speaker 1: up the road past all the dark thicket, up the
Speaker 1: little hill and I'm on the kind of like flat
Speaker 1: straight where there's a bit of a you know, a footpath.
Speaker 1: So I'm running along the footpath and it's open Cornfield's
Speaker 1: probably a good three quarters a half a mile of
Speaker 1: open ground where you've got no cover and no protection whatsoever,
Speaker 1: no houses. So I could see the village ahead of me,
Speaker 1: and it was literally like, you know, full tilt, head back,
Speaker 1: arms pumping by my sides, heart bursting out of my
Speaker 1: chest because I'm thinking, any minute now, it's going to
Speaker 1: get me. Any minute now, it's going to get me.
Speaker 1: And I ran and ran and ran, and obviously I'm
Speaker 1: in slippy going out shoes. Saw these things are racing
Speaker 1: through my mind and I could just feel that it
Speaker 1: was flanking me on the right behind me, but nothing
Speaker 1: got me. I you know, ran and jumped over the
Speaker 1: little garden fence, ran and literally done panicking trying to
Speaker 1: get in the house. And yeah, so you know, then
Speaker 1: I get shouted out for waking everybody up. But I
Speaker 1: never told them what went on because at that point
Speaker 1: the relationship with my mum and stepdad had really sort
Speaker 1: of broken down. So it was like everything I did
Speaker 1: was wrong, Everything I did was bad, my fault, So
Speaker 1: you know, what's the point. But yeah, So within a
Speaker 1: year they'd moved. My stepfather got a promotion. They'd moved
Speaker 1: up to bought a house in Shropshire, and he'd got
Speaker 1: a promotion to the head officing crew for this company.
Speaker 1: I stayed down with my nan and granddad. I had
Speaker 1: all my friends there. I was an air cadet in
Speaker 1: the local acadet branch. We were doing survival courses. You know,
Speaker 1: you were sort of like starting to have the first girlfriends.
Speaker 1: I was playing rugby for the rugby team, so my
Speaker 1: whole life was there, and because of the relationship being
Speaker 1: so toxic on the parents' side, it was I didn't
Speaker 1: want to move to Shropshire and I never wanted to go there.
Speaker 1: I tried and tried to stay with my friends, with
Speaker 1: Menan and Grande, but in the end, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: sixteen seventeen, You've got no you're not an adult yet,
Speaker 1: and things are very different back in those days like
Speaker 1: it is now, with all the safeguarding laws that we
Speaker 1: really have and we really need. I just wanted to
Speaker 1: be away from the abuse, but I couldn't escape it,
Speaker 1: so in the end I was kind of forced to
Speaker 1: finish my exams and was kind of forced to move
Speaker 1: up there. So it would have been nineteen eighty seven,
Speaker 1: summer of nineteen eighty seven, and this house was set
Speaker 1: off a main road. It was in an area of woodland.
Speaker 1: It was just in a kind of patch of ground,
Speaker 1: like a bit of a field that was outside the woodland,
Speaker 1: but still next to a big main road which is
Speaker 1: now a very busy road. And it was close to
Speaker 1: a town in Shropshire called Witchurch, and this place was
Speaker 1: called Higher Heath. In between Witchurch and Higher Heath there
Speaker 1: was an old air base, a World War two air
Speaker 1: base that was disused, but you could still see the
Speaker 1: remnants of the old buildings throughout the woods. So as
Speaker 1: you came to the property, if you came up the
Speaker 1: main road, if you were traveling north to wards, which
Speaker 1: you would come to this turn off, you would go
Speaker 1: right into a kind of cinder track into the woods.
Speaker 1: Immediately on the left there was an old grain dryer,
Speaker 1: this big, kind of stark, ominous looking building, but it
Speaker 1: was disused, a big, old sort of black looking building
Speaker 1: park brick part corrugated iron, I think, and then you'd
Speaker 1: kind of go no more than probably fifty sixty yards
Speaker 1: maximum one hundred yards, So where the cinder track went
Speaker 1: there would be a line of woodland, and then our
Speaker 1: property would be running along behind that line of only
Speaker 1: a strip of woods, probably no more than sort of
Speaker 1: thirty feet wide in a strip, but obviously all the
Speaker 1: woods would be to your left hand side, and then
Speaker 1: you got four of the woods went off over a
Speaker 1: fence and a gate into the main woodland. So you
Speaker 1: used to have to literally come up the cinder track
Speaker 1: double back to get into the house through the gates
Speaker 1: that we ended up putting on there. So I ended
Speaker 1: up going to college, you know, big town in Shropshire
Speaker 1: called Shrewsbury. I used to come back quite late at night.
Speaker 1: So coming back one sort of November night, get off
Speaker 1: the little bus across the road, have to cross the
Speaker 1: main road, comes down on the cinder track. Some I
Speaker 1: seventeen at the time, you know, pretty fit, pretty strong,
Speaker 1: pretty cocky, coming to the woodland, and I heard things
Speaker 1: running off into the undergrowth as I come down the
Speaker 1: cinder track, mainly to my left, and I thought, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: use your thing. You know, rabbits whatever. Carried on walking
Speaker 1: down a little bit further, and then I heard something heavier,
Speaker 1: and I thought, no, it's not a rabbit. It must
Speaker 1: be a someone's dog or something. Anyway, still pretty nonchal
Speaker 1: and not really bothered, walked a little bit further, and
Speaker 1: as I'm coming towards the grain dryer and sort of
Speaker 1: around probably the midway through in the grain dryer where
Speaker 1: it sat, I kind of just got compelled to turn
Speaker 1: around because I could hear some noise. I thought, what
Speaker 1: is that? So I'm looking back and you can kind
Speaker 1: of vaguely see in the darkness. You can see, you know,
Speaker 1: the two bits of woodland where it ends, and there's
Speaker 1: the main road, there's the entrance to the cinder track
Speaker 1: off the main road. There's other houses there, and see
Speaker 1: my right where the patch of woodland that runs along
Speaker 1: the side of the road is just past the edge
Speaker 1: of the grain dryer. I'm just sensing something. So I'm
Speaker 1: really staring this place in the woods, thinking what is
Speaker 1: what is it? I thought I'll just wait and see,
Speaker 1: and then I got this overwhelming feeling of dread. And
Speaker 1: the more that I looked, I could see there was something,
Speaker 1: but it was almost like a shadow that just absorbed
Speaker 1: the light. It was darker than dark, like it was
Speaker 1: a hole in space kind of thing. I was like, what, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm seeing things and it's pitch black anyway. But and
Speaker 1: then this this damn thing stepped towards me, or it
Speaker 1: stepped towards the path, I should say, so it moved
Speaker 1: so that I could see it, and it did this
Speaker 1: on purpose. And what it revealed was a humanoid shape,
Speaker 1: absolutely pitch black, like a void. It was about six
Speaker 1: and a half to seven feet tall, but it was
Speaker 1: clearly human shaped. But when it had stepped, it broke
Speaker 1: a twig. Now this is where we get this crossover
Speaker 1: into the weirdness of well are these things supernatural? Are
Speaker 1: they physical? Are they physically present, or are they cloaked?
Speaker 1: Well that was it for me. It filled me with
Speaker 1: primal terror, terror that I have never felt anywhere before
Speaker 1: or since. It really was the most terrifying thing beyond
Speaker 1: what it represented. Just the emanation of this thing was
Speaker 1: absolute terror, and I just I was frozen initially, and
Speaker 1: I literally spun and I ran from my life straight
Speaker 1: up the cinder track double back, literally hurdled the gates,
Speaker 1: ran straight to the house, got into the utility door,
Speaker 1: let the dogs out. The dogs went berserk, barking, howling, yapping.
Speaker 1: They tore off towards the woods up to the end gate,
Speaker 1: and I just stood there, shaking. And I still, no
Speaker 1: matter where I've been across ancient sites, in different places
Speaker 1: in the world, up the hills, up the hills at night,
Speaker 1: in the full moon, in the woods at night, by myself,
Speaker 1: never felt terror like this thing emanated or invoked in me,
Speaker 1: or evoked in me, which we want to call it.
Speaker 1: It made me, you know, That's what I felt. So
Speaker 1: this thing carried on for years. It never really showed
Speaker 1: itself again physically, not to me. It did show itself
Speaker 1: to my brother in dreams before it finally we feel
Speaker 1: it finally breached the house. And but that's long after
Speaker 1: I'd left. But you could go out there in daylight,
Speaker 1: go out through the gates and face towards this old
Speaker 1: bit of woods where the grain dry was se You're
Speaker 1: looking roughly towards where the main road is and the
Speaker 1: main body of the old woods, so the big old
Speaker 1: woods is behind you. And even in the daylight, there
Speaker 1: was some presence that if you went there with the
Speaker 1: intention that you were going to face it down. You
Speaker 1: just felt like you were being watched. And this is
Speaker 1: where for me, what so many of the experiences describe
Speaker 1: who've had cryptid encounters, particularly with sasquatch or dog men,
Speaker 1: that feeling of being watched. And I thought, and that's
Speaker 1: why the story to me was so compelling, because when
Speaker 1: I started listening to those encounters over the last kind
Speaker 1: of ten years, it made me go, oh, whoa, that's
Speaker 1: what I used to feel. But I felt it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I lived there off and on the air for like
Speaker 1: nine years, and this thing never diminished. It was there,
Speaker 1: but no matter. You know, I really got into my
Speaker 1: spiritual path in my sort of twenties, and even then
Speaker 1: I could never quite pinned out what that thing was,
Speaker 1: nor could I ever face it down. Because no matter
Speaker 1: how bold and brassy I felt, I've been out there
Speaker 1: in daylight, I've been out there at night and just
Speaker 1: decided I was going to kind of challenge it. That
Speaker 1: thing always got me to back down. It will get
Speaker 1: to a point where it was so malevolent feeling. It
Speaker 1: was like, no, okay, I'm going, yeah, fair enough, I'm going.
Speaker 1: But to give you an example of it, my little
Speaker 1: brother and myself. We were into like miniatures, war games
Speaker 1: like D and D and Warhammer and everything and WESA.
Speaker 1: So there's eleven years between us, and you know, I
Speaker 1: was kind of my brother was still really young and
Speaker 1: I was at that point sort of in my early twenties,
Speaker 1: and we used to just go and hang out in
Speaker 1: the workshop that was ended up being built behind the
Speaker 1: garage on the property, but it was built right up
Speaker 1: against the fence that was the perimitive line of that
Speaker 1: little strip of woods, roughly opposite the grain dryer on
Speaker 1: the other side of the cinder track. So we'd be
Speaker 1: hanging out in the workshop chatting, you know, laughing, painting
Speaker 1: our miniatures, just chilling like like brothers do, and you
Speaker 1: would just feel that silence fall, that change in the ether,
Speaker 1: and we both look at each other and go, oh,
Speaker 1: it's here, And you could feel this thin come up
Speaker 1: to the fence. It was there, you could feel it.
Speaker 1: You know. It was a big and forceful thing. It
Speaker 1: was not nothing. It carried and the most immense presence
Speaker 1: with it. And then we'd be like, Okay, put the
Speaker 1: paint brushes down, it's time to get in the house.
Speaker 1: And then of course you'd have to kind of come
Speaker 1: out of the workshop, but there was a little kind
Speaker 1: of ginnel where you'd like where the garage was a
Speaker 1: little wood store, and it would take you to such
Speaker 1: a close proximity to the fence. You were within what
Speaker 1: you'd imagine to be like an arm's reach of this thing.
Speaker 1: So we used to kind of like get there and
Speaker 1: run through this bit and kind of get through the
Speaker 1: gate get into the house because we could. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: we never used to go out and linger anywhere near
Speaker 1: that thing at night. It was like, nah, you just
Speaker 1: don't do that. So it went on that way for
Speaker 1: a number of years. I ended up, like I say,
Speaker 1: moving on leaving out, and after I'd left and took
Speaker 1: all my stuff with me, it took my little brother
Speaker 1: a while before he told me the story of this,
Speaker 1: but he started having My stepdad had moved out by
Speaker 1: this time, so it was just my mum and the
Speaker 1: dogs and my little brother in the house at the time,
Speaker 1: and he'd ended up moving into my stepfather's room at
Speaker 1: the the kind of end of a corridor in the
Speaker 1: house and the upstairs on the side of the woods
Speaker 1: overlooking the drive, and on the drive, there were three
Speaker 1: security lights, one up the gate one halfway down on
Speaker 1: one by the garage, and he said they'd had a
Speaker 1: few nights where it had something had set off the
Speaker 1: security lights one after the other gate halfway down the drive.
Speaker 1: It's a gravel drive, so anybody that was walking down it,
Speaker 1: you'd heard a person walking down it light scoff by
Speaker 1: the garage. It happened a couple of times, and then
Speaker 1: he'd actually, I remember now it actually he said it'd
Speaker 1: set the car alarm off on my mum's car. But
Speaker 1: they'd gone out looking and there was let the dogs out.
Speaker 1: There was no one there, so it seemed it ramped
Speaker 1: it up. Now, my brother said, I started getting this
Speaker 1: recurring dream and in this stream, I'm running through the house.
Speaker 1: I'm locking all of the patio doors, the French windows,
Speaker 1: the doors. We had a big conservatory in the end
Speaker 1: down the side of the house that faced out to
Speaker 1: the wood Center utility. And he said that he had
Speaker 1: this stream. He used to run around shut the door
Speaker 1: because he felt this thing was trying to get in.
Speaker 1: Never saw it, just had the idea that something was
Speaker 1: trying to get in the house, and he had to
Speaker 1: shut all the windows and doors and lock them and
Speaker 1: he said. Then the last night that this happened to him,
Speaker 1: he was in bed with his girlfriend. He was streaming
Speaker 1: the stream and he said, and I was running around,
Speaker 1: locking all the doors like I did in sequence. And
Speaker 1: I got to the utility door. I came out of
Speaker 1: the utility door, and I was too slow, and as
Speaker 1: I ran down to the main part of the conservatory,
Speaker 1: down on the sort of like little glass corriedor bit,
Speaker 1: it came through the doors. And he said, it's exactly
Speaker 1: like you described it, Nathan. It's this large, dark humanoid
Speaker 1: form came through the doors, emanating this not necessarily evil,
Speaker 1: but just this malevolent, powerful, ancient presence. And he said,
Speaker 1: you know, you see in the films where the person
Speaker 1: is running, they see this thing, they can't stop and
Speaker 1: they slip over on the floor, kind of slide towards it,
Speaker 1: and their legs are back pedaling, he said, And you know,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get away from it as it's come
Speaker 1: through the door, and it's massive. It's about seven feet tall.
Speaker 1: It's kind of duck through the door, stood up. It's
Speaker 1: huge and menacing. He says, I'm back pedaling and as
Speaker 1: it comes towards me, So I managed to get up
Speaker 1: and run, like, get back to the utility door. Lock
Speaker 1: it shut it, put the bolt on, he said. Anyway,
Speaker 1: then I woke up in bed sweating, and he said,
Speaker 1: and then I heard the stairs creak, and this corridor
Speaker 1: that ran down to the end where that bedroom was.
Speaker 1: It had this, you know, that kind of chipboard flooring,
Speaker 1: and it was not a very well built house. It
Speaker 1: used to creak quite a lot with If you couldn't
Speaker 1: walk on that floor without anyone hearing, you know, you
Speaker 1: wake up the whole house. And he said, we heard it.
Speaker 1: I woke my girlfriend up and we heard it come
Speaker 1: down the corridor, and he said, we could feel its
Speaker 1: presence outside the bedroom door, almost like it was breathing darkness,
Speaker 1: Like it was like, you know, something breezy expanded its
Speaker 1: aura through the walls. And so he I, when I'd left,
Speaker 1: I'd left this really interesting sort of African curved like
Speaker 1: cleaver simitter thing as a protection thing for him. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like a live blade shop sword. It was like
Speaker 1: a just like an ornament. But I always felt it
Speaker 1: had some sort of sort of talismanic protection element to it.
Speaker 1: So he grabbed that and he said to his golfing
Speaker 1: on the counter. Three, I'm going to open the door
Speaker 1: and whatever's out there is going to get swung. This
Speaker 1: sword's going to hit it. He's like, I'm you know,
Speaker 1: I'm absolutely terrified, and so he got her to literally
Speaker 1: on the counter three, switch the light on. He opens
Speaker 1: the door, takes a swipe at whatever would be out there,
Speaker 1: and he said there was absolutely nothing there. It completely vanished,
Speaker 1: and that seemed to be the sort of culmination of
Speaker 1: the experiences there for him. He ended up moving out
Speaker 1: going to university. So that is a Now some people
Speaker 1: have seen these things and they think that these are
Speaker 1: what they call a woodwoes, and I disagree. I don't
Speaker 1: think that is a woodwoes. I think that's something else
Speaker 1: I have experienced, or what I think was a woodwoes encounter.
Speaker 1: So in nineteen eighty seven, when myself and Richard Lance,
Speaker 1: we'd all finished school before I sort of eventually went
Speaker 1: back up to Shropshire, we had a holiday on a
Speaker 1: piece of land, farmland owned by their relatives in South Wales.
Speaker 1: So it's just three lads a tent in a little
Speaker 1: bit of a field under an old oak tree by
Speaker 1: the woodlands. Absolute paradise, you know, proper boys own camping experience.
Speaker 1: We were there for I think probably about ten days
Speaker 1: something like that, really really nice summer weather. So where
Speaker 1: we had the old sort of three four man tent,
Speaker 1: there was a great big oat tree. We built a
Speaker 1: little fire, pips and rocks, and then the tent was
Speaker 1: kind of on the opposite side of that, and we
Speaker 1: had a lot of interesting experiences there. First time I'd
Speaker 1: ever heard foxes calling in the wild, you know, rain,
Speaker 1: so it's really eerie coming out of the woods. But anyway,
Speaker 1: one night, so we've had a great night, We've gone
Speaker 1: to bed, left the kind of campfire in front of
Speaker 1: the tent. We're all sort of tired out. We retired,
Speaker 1: gone to bed, laid down, and then I think we've
Speaker 1: all sort of drifted off a little bit. And then
Speaker 1: I think Lance was in the middle Riches on the
Speaker 1: other side of all laying in the same direction, and
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's Lance nudged me and was just whispered,
Speaker 1: you know, look out the tent, look at the end
Speaker 1: of the tent, and he's woken Richard up, and we've
Speaker 1: all gone really quiet, looked up and honestly, they're in
Speaker 1: front of the tent, crouched over our fire was a
Speaker 1: human figure like if I could have described it to you,
Speaker 1: I would say it was like a proto human, like
Speaker 1: a like a caveman or something like that. Not very big,
Speaker 1: probably would have been about five and a half feet,
Speaker 1: so probably, you know, no more difference than us in size.
Speaker 1: And it was crouched over the fire, and we were
Speaker 1: all like, what the bleep is that? Who's that? Who's outside?
Speaker 1: We're in the middle of nowhere, who's outside the tent?
Speaker 1: So anyway, it's like, right, we're going to get them.
Speaker 1: So we had our like you know, army knives or
Speaker 1: survival knives, and so obviously it was me that was
Speaker 1: chosen to be the bravest and boldest, and I got
Speaker 1: pushed at the front of the tent and it was one.
Speaker 1: I was singing you on the counter three one two three,
Speaker 1: We're gonna unzip the tent and I'm going to jump
Speaker 1: this person because they're messing with us, you know, what
Speaker 1: are they doing? So it was uh yeah, one, two, three,
Speaker 1: zip and I kind of like lunge out of the
Speaker 1: entrance to the tent and there is nothing there, nobody,
Speaker 1: and there was nothing in between the fire and the tent,
Speaker 1: and barely in mind, there's all three of us are
Speaker 1: seen this thing. It's not just like one of us
Speaker 1: and you know, the other two have gone, or maybe
Speaker 1: it's like, no, we all saw what we saw. And
Speaker 1: then so everyone's like looking at the tent. Now we're
Speaker 1: all going, well, what was that? Well, you know, that
Speaker 1: was like that was a person and it was I
Speaker 1: think Richard said, well, I think it might be a
Speaker 1: woodwoes or you know, could it be what they called
Speaker 1: the oak man, the spirit of the oak tree or
Speaker 1: the things that live in the oak trees. These are
Speaker 1: all things from legend. So anyway, we were just like, ah, no,
Speaker 1: what it was? So zip the tent back down, laid
Speaker 1: back down, and then about ten minutes later, I get
Speaker 1: another nudge and this thing's back again, squatting down over
Speaker 1: the fire. And then it was the case of well,
Speaker 1: we don't really know what that is, but you know,
Speaker 1: let's just it's not doing us any harm. In fact,
Speaker 1: maybe it's watching over us. So I don't know, let's
Speaker 1: just leave it be. But the thing that struck me
Speaker 1: the other day when we were talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: are these creatures supernatural? Are they physical? And people talk
Speaker 1: about cloaking. People have seen sasquatch and dog men, both
Speaker 1: cloak and uncloak, at least that's the reports. So in
Speaker 1: my mind, I suddenly thought, well, why could we see
Speaker 1: it as a shadow on the tent And there was
Speaker 1: nothing in front of the fire that cast a shadow,
Speaker 1: and it couldn't cast a shadow like a squatting human
Speaker 1: being without being a squatting human being shape. So well,
Speaker 1: I underzipped the tent and couldn't see it, and then
Speaker 1: obviously we zipped the tent back up and it kind
Speaker 1: of reappeared. What it made me think of is, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: could it be that when these things cloak are saying
Speaker 1: speech marks, do they bend light? But maybe they don't
Speaker 1: block it? So this thing was maybe it was cloaked,
Speaker 1: but the firelight, the actual light traveling from the fire,
Speaker 1: still cast its silhouette onto the outside of our tent
Speaker 1: because it was physical on some level. And so maybe
Speaker 1: when I went out to kind of like jump in
Speaker 1: and see what it was, it was literally invisible to
Speaker 1: the naked eye. But that's why it kind of reappeared,
Speaker 1: because it probably was physically solid, and although we perhaps
Speaker 1: couldn't see it with our physical eyes because it was
Speaker 1: cloaked or something like that. It still cast a shadow
Speaker 1: because it was a solid creature of some kind. So
Speaker 1: it is a very strange thing. And I'll say that
Speaker 1: the last experience that happened to me in recent years
Speaker 1: was probably around twenty fifteen, around the time that I
Speaker 1: began this journey of exploration. Now I've had a lot
Speaker 1: of strange UFO stuff over the years and seen all
Speaker 1: manner of things. But I was with Lance in his
Speaker 1: house in Suffolk, Libs saying, rural Suffolk outside berysin Evans,
Speaker 1: and it's not too far, probably about twenty five miles
Speaker 1: from Arif Lake and Heath and Mildenhall, the big us
Speaker 1: spaces where we had all this drone activity recently. But
Speaker 1: this was around twenty fifteen. We were out in the
Speaker 1: back garden and it was nighttime. We were just out chatting,
Speaker 1: looking at the sky, looking at the stars, and away
Speaker 1: to the west we saw some red lights like landing
Speaker 1: lights on an aircraft. Why I used to live was
Speaker 1: near a base called Arif Watersurement. Used to be a
Speaker 1: fighter base in the eighties, but then it's become a
Speaker 1: base for the Apache helicopters, and we see them quite
Speaker 1: a lot over that area, so we thought, oh, maybe
Speaker 1: it's it's apaches on maneuver because these red lights in
Speaker 1: the distance, which looked just like aircraft landing lights, were
Speaker 1: kind of going up and down, not very high, just
Speaker 1: on the horizon, kind of up and down a little
Speaker 1: bit side to side, like a helicopter would probably maneuver
Speaker 1: rather than a large jet. No, it's not far, like
Speaker 1: I say, from the military bases, but also not far
Speaker 1: from Stanstord, which is a large airport, so we didn't
Speaker 1: think anything of it. And then about an hour later,
Speaker 1: Lance said, oh, you know your going for a walk
Speaker 1: up the road? Say yeah, okay, yeah, great, go and
Speaker 1: take the air it's a nice night. So he came
Speaker 1: out of his little estate, turned left, walked out into
Speaker 1: the countryside along the road, and then we took another left.
Speaker 1: It's pitch black. I don't know the area at all,
Speaker 1: so I couldn't tell where I was, but we were
Speaker 1: heading down off the main road onto a side road
Speaker 1: down into a field, and then we spotted this red light.
Speaker 1: It was kind of red but then sort of amber
Speaker 1: shifting in colors, and again it's relatively small. It's kind
Speaker 1: of going up, traveling across, going up and down, vertically moving,
Speaker 1: and we were like, what are we looking at? And
Speaker 1: how far away is? That's weird? And then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden it all became put into a sharp perspective
Speaker 1: because a car appeared with its lights on, coming from
Speaker 1: left to right, and we suddenly saw we were in
Speaker 1: a large field, probably about two to three hundred yards
Speaker 1: away from the boundary, the hedge line boundary, which was
Speaker 1: the boundary of the road, and in front of us
Speaker 1: were two regularly spaced telegraph poles. When this car appeared,
Speaker 1: this thing, this light ducked. It was up one of
Speaker 1: the telegraph poles. It ducked down the telegraph pole. It
Speaker 1: hid below the hedge line, so the car couldn't see it.
Speaker 1: The car then passed and everything went back to being black,
Speaker 1: and this thing went up up the next telegraph pole,
Speaker 1: and then we were like whoa. And then that became
Speaker 1: a game changer. Then we sort of moved a little
Speaker 1: bit closer. LANs was like, what is that and I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, and so then he sort
Speaker 1: of said, oh, should we go over Now By this
Speaker 1: time it had changed so it had kind of come down,
Speaker 1: it got across from left to right. It was probably
Speaker 1: just to the right of the second telegraph pole. It
Speaker 1: then changed from ready amber to a yellow white, and
Speaker 1: as we began to focus on it, I can only
Speaker 1: say that it became aware of us. But prior to that,
Speaker 1: before we saw the car and worked out what it was,
Speaker 1: this thing, which was clearly intelligent and sentient, was dancing
Speaker 1: up and down the telegraph pole along the hedge, kind
Speaker 1: of just playing and quite happily, quite innocently. But when
Speaker 1: we became more intent on getting closer to it, and
Speaker 1: it kind of must have sensed us, it grew in intensity,
Speaker 1: like somebody was pointing a torch beam right at us.
Speaker 1: So it went from being like a just a glowing
Speaker 1: red orb to being something that was shining, and you know,
Speaker 1: you get those kind of like rays of light that
Speaker 1: radiate when something's pointing right at you. It did that.
Speaker 1: Lance was like, oh, shoot, should we go over and
Speaker 1: see it? And I was like, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: we don't know what that is. Plus and then as
Speaker 1: we were sort of thinking about that, there was a
Speaker 1: little tiny strip of woods next to us in that
Speaker 1: sort of poked out like a fingerwood, and that PopEd
Speaker 1: out into that field on our right that we sort
Speaker 1: of drew level with. As we kind of went a
Speaker 1: little bit forward towards the orb and towards the hedgeline,
Speaker 1: there was a massive snapping of a wood limb and
Speaker 1: something thudded to the ground and I was like, ooh, key,
Speaker 1: Lance back out, and he was like, well, us to
Speaker 1: just back out. No, we don't know what this is.
Speaker 1: We don't know what we were in the middle of.
Speaker 1: It's pitch black. Let's just honor it for what it
Speaker 1: is and let's back away. And so did. We sort
Speaker 1: of backed out of the field. It stayed sort of
Speaker 1: focused on us to sort of hopping. It was really
Speaker 1: hovering probably about more than about two or three feet
Speaker 1: above the ground at that point. So we've discussed it afterwards,
Speaker 1: and the only thing we could compare it to in
Speaker 1: our kind of cultural knowledge or you know, mythology from
Speaker 1: the UK was something that was called a willow the wisp,
Speaker 1: and that's what it seemed to be. So it was alive,
Speaker 1: it was just enjoying itself. You know, It's clearly it
Speaker 1: was intelligent, it was sentient, but I felt it sense
Speaker 1: us and it almost like became a bit of a
Speaker 1: Mexican standoff again, because it kind of grew in intensity,
Speaker 1: like it was getting ready to do something, and I
Speaker 1: didn't want either of us to get harmed. But also sometimes,
Speaker 1: you know, we encounter these things and it's like, why
Speaker 1: have humans always got to get their hands on stuff
Speaker 1: and try pick it to pieces when we should just
Speaker 1: you know, we've recognize and honor the fact that we've
Speaker 1: witnessed something miraculous, and it's maybe it's a manifestation of nature.
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful thing. It wasn't out to hurt us,
Speaker 1: Just you know, honor it and walk away. And so
Speaker 1: we do think that maybe what we saw was a
Speaker 1: willow the whisper, but that clearly was a energy life
Speaker 1: form that clearly had physical presence, had sentience, it was aware.
Speaker 1: So I believe that we live in a very beautiful
Speaker 1: and interesting world where there are perhaps these creatures, and
Speaker 1: perhaps both things are true. Some of these things are physical,
Speaker 1: but they can also shift between the dimensions. I have
Speaker 1: no idea how the physics of that were. Look. Maybe
Speaker 1: one day we will know it, but maybe we're not
Speaker 1: grown up enough or evolved enough yet in our consciousness
Speaker 1: to really embrace those things or be trusted with the
Speaker 1: secrets of them, because look at what a mess we
Speaker 1: make of most of the world. And I just think
Speaker 1: what a beautiful world we could live in if we
Speaker 1: knew all these answers and we just used all our
Speaker 1: energy and attention, all our money and resources in the
Speaker 1: right ways rather than in the destructive and divisive ways
Speaker 1: in which they seem to be use in most of
Speaker 1: the world. But there's clearly a bigger world out there
Speaker 1: than human beings have got the ability to embrace. But
Speaker 1: I think some of us are kind of getting there.
Speaker 1: For me, it just makes me more aware of what
Speaker 1: might be out there and makes me, yeah, keep my
Speaker 1: head on the swivel. But unlike most of you, I
Speaker 1: really would love to know the answers. And I think
Speaker 1: now I've had a shift in life and I've kind
Speaker 1: of freed up sort of time and energy and resources
Speaker 1: for me, that's what I want to go forward and
Speaker 1: go and explore. So yeah, there is an imminent US
Speaker 1: tour being planned as we speak, So if anybody wants
Speaker 1: to reach out, get in touch and connect, we'd love
Speaker 1: to come out there. I think if I can probably
Speaker 1: get a thing to come. You'd love that as well,
Speaker 1: to come and explore some of the mysteries out there
Speaker 1: and hopefully we can find some of the answers together.
Speaker 2: Be in the mag that you are for scary things.
Speaker 2: Like I said, I can only imagine what's going to
Speaker 2: happen if you make such a trip. And with that
Speaker 2: in mind, if anyone does want to reach out to
Speaker 2: you and offer a stay at their place or anything
Speaker 2: like that to accommodate, what's the best way for them
Speaker 2: to do that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that would be lovely. Yeah, so just reach
Speaker 1: out email me. It's Nathan Siraya are e a Nathan
Speaker 1: Sorea all one word at gmail dot com. So yeah,
Speaker 1: love to hear from people and love to connect with people,
Speaker 1: That's what I'm all about. Yeah, and we'd love to
Speaker 1: come out and see some of the mysteries out there
Speaker 1: in the US and Canada.
Speaker 2: Again, as hard to believe as it might be, I
Speaker 2: think you're just getting started when it comes to all
Speaker 2: the mysteries that are still left out there to be explored.
Speaker 1: Kobevic, I think it's a pretty big universe, I have
Speaker 1: to say, folks, I think things are quickening at the moment.
Speaker 1: So whatever people think. I know, we've been at this
Speaker 1: kind of thing with the cryptis for many, many years,
Speaker 1: but there are people out there with the knowledge, and
Speaker 1: I think we're getting closer to the answers of what
Speaker 1: these things are. And I really do hope, in fact,
Speaker 1: you know, really intend that that we find the answers
Speaker 1: to these beings, that they feel that they can communicate
Speaker 1: with us. Our ancestors have got a massive history of
Speaker 1: communicating with these other realms and respect for them. I
Speaker 1: mean there's been you know, stories of the werewolves in
Speaker 1: the forests in Europe for centuries, and also people connecting
Speaker 1: with the Faye, with the elementals, with the fairy realms
Speaker 1: the Faye which often resemble these you know, classic gray extraterrestrials.
Speaker 1: So well, I still believe that we have, you know,
Speaker 1: both things are out there. There's interdimensional stuff and there
Speaker 1: is extraterrestrial stuff. So I think in the next few
Speaker 1: years we are really going to see something. And I've
Speaker 1: had some very prophetic dreams that show things turning up.
Speaker 1: So let's hope we get the answers because I just
Speaker 1: think what a beautiful world we would live in when
Speaker 1: we know more about the world we live in if
Speaker 1: you get me, I.
Speaker 2: Do get you, And of course there would be life
Speaker 2: before in life after such revealing, and for some time
Speaker 2: now there's been a lot of talk about that revealing.
Speaker 2: It does make you wonder if it's just around the corner.
Speaker 2: I guess time will tell on that. But having said that, Nathan,
Speaker 2: I can't thank you enough for coming on and sure
Speaker 2: the details of all these experiences with this. I really
Speaker 2: appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, Vick, and sincerely, you know I've listened
Speaker 1: to you for a long time and thank you for
Speaker 1: what you do because talking people through the trauma of this.
Speaker 1: You know, I am a trained therapist. I haven't put
Speaker 1: myself out there to do this work with people, but
Speaker 1: I feel that's what I'm being called to do because
Speaker 1: I do know that so many people are struggling with this.
Speaker 1: And you know, as someone that struggles with trauma and
Speaker 1: then also has this kind of other sight to his life,
Speaker 1: how do you explain those things to regular you know,
Speaker 1: medical staff and therapists. It's very difficult, can be very lonely,
Speaker 1: and I think the isolation and the loneliness with something
Speaker 1: like this is the hardest thing. So you know, you
Speaker 1: do a great job. And I know you talk to
Speaker 1: so many people offline and you talk them down and
Speaker 1: you help them out. And God bless you, sir for
Speaker 1: what you do. So you know, and I can tell
Speaker 1: you're one of the good guys. You're very, very genuine
Speaker 1: in what you do and you do care and that's
Speaker 1: a you know, that's h So you have my respect, Vick.
Speaker 1: You really do well.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for all those kind words. I really
Speaker 2: wouldn't have it any other way though. I just feel
Speaker 2: blessed to be in a position to help the eyewitnesses.
Speaker 2: I really do. But having said that, thanks again so
Speaker 2: much for your time, Nathan, I really do appreciate it.
Speaker 2: In the future, if I can never help you out,
Speaker 2: please let me know.
Speaker 1: Thanks, Vick, I really appreciate that. Yeah. God bless and
Speaker 1: you know, good luck everyone.
Speaker 2: Oh no, you're welcome. God bless you onan have a
Speaker 2: great night.
Speaker 1: English