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Speaker 1: At a book.

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Dogmanencounters dot com Forward Slash Podcast. Tonight's guest is Nathan.

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Nathan Welcome to the show. Hi, Vic, good evening, Thank

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you well, thanks so much for being here. We appreciate

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your time. Nathan, please give us a brief.

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Speaker 1: Bio on yourself. Sure, so, Yeah, my name is Nathan.

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I'm fifty five five years of age. I live in

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the UK and in the area of North Wales. So

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I'm coming on tonight because a friend of mine called

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Athena came on the other week and we've been talking

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about this because I introduced her to Vic's show and

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I've been a follower of the show since around twenty sixteen,

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which was part of a coming to speak to everyone

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tonight and talk about my life and my experiences is

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part of a recent kind of twenty five year journey

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from an experience I had in the US in two

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thousand and one.

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Speaker 2: You're starting to make me feel awe talking about listening

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to me since twenty sixteen. That's a while ago. You

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just mentioned that first encounter that you had twenty five

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years ago. Before you had that experience, did you take

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the whole cryptid phenomenon seriously or is a punche Well.

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Speaker 1: Growing up in the seventies, I was introduced to Arthur C.

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Clark's Mysterious World. I'm sure there's a lot of people

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out there that might remember that. So I saw the

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Patterson Gimlin film when I was quite young. But also

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I had the books on everything, so I was always

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interested in mythology. And then as we get into this episode,

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you'll understand what happened to me along my life and

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how all of this seems to weave into my experience

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and the path that my life kind of took. Whether

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I liked that or not, it's very much interwoven. And

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that's why I wanted to come forward and speak, and

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I did wish to come forward sooner, but because of

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certain positions I held in life professionally and personally, I

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had to be very careful and consider it about my

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personal experiences or spiritual experiences, which a lot of people

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consider to be quite woo or quite far out, and

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that would have possibly compromised some of the things that

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I was doing at sort of local and national level.

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So I have also reached out to other podcasts, quite

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well renowned ones, but I got replies but never a

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follow up VIC. So it's kind of serendipity that it's

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come round to speaking to you, because you're the person

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that I've really kind of followed the longest, So it's

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really nice to finally connect with you and be part

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of the history of dog Man Encounters Radio.

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Speaker 2: Well, thanks again for reaching out. I'm glad you did,

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and thanks too for sending a fena. I really appreciate

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you doing that as well, although from what I hear,

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you were kind of disappointed that you weren't able to

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come on last week's show with her.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she's so cheeky. We were in a friend's

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kitchen just discussing it, and I said, oh, you know,

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we should go on together because we were a great

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double at her and I and it's one of the

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great things about our friendship that we really bounce off

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each other with the crazy sense of humor, but we've

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also explored, you know, enough spiritual parts of ourselves with

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common experience that it's one of the reasons that we

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sort of connect so well. So when I was lying

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in bed in the early hours of the Saturday morning

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and put the podcast on, and I kind of fluffed

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the first part of the intro, didn't catch her name,

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and then she said, oh, I'm fifty I'm from North Wales.

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I thought, oh, wow, for somebody from North Wales. And

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then I realized who it was and I was like that,

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you cheeky cow. I was like, right, that does it.

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That does it. You've thrown down the gauntlet I'm getting

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in touch with. So yeah, as soon as it was daylight,

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I sent her a text and expressing my surprise and yeah,

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so she very kindly said, oh, I'll reach out of

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it for you like that. Yeah. Yeah, So it was

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It was funny, but you know, it's nice to finally

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sort of come on and talk about the kind of yeah,

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this side of my of my life's experience, which is definitely,

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you know, the more kind of strange but interesting side

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of it. And I hope that it just gives some

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of the listeners insights and comparisons to a lot of

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their experiences, both with dog men and with with susquatch,

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and compared to some of the things I've experienced in

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the UK, and obviously I'm someone that's had experiences in

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the UK, and then obviously I had that experien it's

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in the US in two thousand and one. So yeah,

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I think there's a commonality in the phenomenon, and I

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hope that's what I can convey as a conclusion for people.

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In my mind anyway, and my experience.

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Speaker 2: That's the thing about you. You're not going to just

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talk about the dog man encounters that you've had. It

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seems to me like you're a magnet for scary things

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for some reason. Scary things are just drawn to you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And ever since I worked out that dog men

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are actually in the UK, I've said to you, have

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been a lot more careful about going out in the

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woods and up the hills and mountains at night by myself,

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which I used to love to do. But it made

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me very wary or just more considerate of what's around.

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Not that I've ever felt really in danger, but it's

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just an acknowledgment of because I've listened to so many

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episodes and found out that lot of places that I've

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been people in the UK have had sightings and experiences

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with these creatures. So it made me just sit up

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and take notice. Shall we say?

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Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately, Nathan, I've got some bad news for you.

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Anytime I bring a guest on from overseas, most notably

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via UK, I get a lot of messages from people

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who live over there to let me know that it's

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all nonsense because there are no cryptids in the UK.

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It's too small, there's no place for them to live.

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So unfortunately, you didn't have any experiences that you've come

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on to tell us about tonight.

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Speaker 1: Well, apparently not. And this has been something which I've

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I've been involved in in the kind of on my

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own spiritual journey for a long long time, since probably

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the age of nineteen and so I've got involved in

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the UFO field, and I've worked as a therapist. I

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still am a therapist. I'm a trained hit of therapist.

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But also I've worked and trained with people in the US,

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so I've had some really fantastic experiences. But one thing

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I've always been really really firm about is the fact

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that you cannot tell someone else they haven't experienced that

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thing because it's their experience. I mean, it's so arrogant

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to assume that you can say, well, I don't have

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that experience, therefore you can't have had it. And I

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think that that for me, because I've worked with so

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many people on so many different topics over the years,

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that for me, I now suspend all judgment or try

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to because we simply don't know. And I think that's

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as well in other aspects. In my reason for coming

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forward is we don't really understand. I feel we don't

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really understand the world that we live in. We live

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in a very narrow band of perception. There is much

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more going on around us, and I believe that what

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we're seeing with a lot of these phenomenas, should we say,

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is trying to show us that that's exactly the way

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things are. We don't have all the answers, and that's

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why I think people have encounters. Because people have had

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encounters from the most self aware people to people that

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are very down to earth and grounded, and that doesn't

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this seem to be any rhyme or reason why those

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encounters have happened to people. And in many cases you

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listen to the emotion in those people's voices when they're

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trying to convey what's gone on for them in a

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really traumatic experience that changed the course of their life forever.

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So I think we just need to be more compassionate

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and just say, you know what. We might have ideas,

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we might have opinions, but there's not one of us

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that's really an expert. And so I don't claim to

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be any kind of expert. I am an experiencer, I

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am a therapist. I've had my own journey in the

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kind of wu but I've also had a very grounded

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life and had an interesting journey in that path. And

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I don't think the modern material world is actually a

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very easy or safe place to navigate in general without

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piling on these you know, strange experiences that take us unawares.

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I'm probably somebody that's been more prepared for those experiences

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because of my early life and my childhood and the

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path that my life took, which I think when I

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get into that people will understand that, you know, there's

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been a lot of neglect in my childhood, a lot

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of abuse, but also that of pushed me into my

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spiritual life. And so I'm someone that's kind of walked

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a path where I've just tried to have a normal life,

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be happy, get on like everyone else, you know, have

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all the things and be a good person. It hasn't

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always worked out that way. And as I've got older,

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the challenges of my own mental health became far sharper

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to me. And for years I've been really resilient, and

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I think sometimes life just throws you a curveball and

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you hit that wall and you have to face up

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to what happened to you. So I'm not somebody that

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sits here and says, oh, you know, it's all about

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having a wonderful life. It's been very difficult, it's been

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very traumatic. I ended up being diagnosed with complex PTSD

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in about twenty eighteen. It took me four years to

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get that diagnosis, and I knew what was wrong with me.

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So it's quite a challenge, particularly as a man, you know,

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to get any help about your mental health, which is

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something that I've been working on and supporting other people

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and you know, creating projects which really supported men's mental

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health and tackled the sort of terrible problems of male

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suicide that we have in every first world nation, but

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particularly in the UK. So yeah, it's been a real journey.

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And so if you can get an idea of who

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I am as a person, it's like I feel like

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I've got a foot in both worlds, if you like,

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I can take on board the kind of more spiritual

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and supernatural experiences, but I also have been a very

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grounded and I'm a very grounded and practical person. I

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think that's probably what's allowed me to integrate those sides

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of myself, because I've always managed to keep it real,

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and when it's got too weird, I have just kind of,

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you know, walked away, put the whole thing down for

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a while, you know, can't out down something. It's like, yeah,

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I'm just going to go for a pint down the pub.

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I'm just going to go for a walk and forget

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about that. Just do something practical, because sometimes the mysterious

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side of things can get so weird. It gets so

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weird and so intangible that you drive yourself mad. It's like,

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you know, you know, like they say, oh, you know,

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you don't get the answer, doesn't become more clear, you

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just end up with more questions. So I think that's

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what a lot of people are finding in, particularly in

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this field. There's people that think they have a definitive answer,

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but then something else happens and you know, no, that

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wasn't the definitive answer. It's like it opens up a

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whole other world of questions. So for me, I think

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some of the things I want to share tonight are

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because there's things which I having listened to so many

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people's experiences that now for me it's like there's a

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connecting thread in between some of my experiences might help

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to fill those gaps with people. And if that's what

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I can do and it helps someone to integrate their

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experience or puts it into perspective for them, then job Dunvic.

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That's why I'm here.

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Speaker 2: I think it's awfully impressive that even though you're dealing

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with the PTSD, you're dealing with due to your traumatic experiences,

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the fact that you still focus on helping other people

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who have been traumatized by their experiences come to terms

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with theirs. I think this say is everything about your

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altruistic character. I think it really does. But having said that,

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you've got a lot to unpack for us. Please tell

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us about your encounters now, give us a real last

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detail that comes to mind.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so what really kicked off this journey has brought

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me here to speak to you and to the listeners tonight.

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Something happened in two thousand and one in a place

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called Mountain Ranch. And this is what really as it

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was coming round to the twentieth anniversary, I guess of

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that experience, trying to work out what exactly I had

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encountered became a valuable little journey of investigation, which led

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me to listen to dogman Encounters because the thing that

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I encountered, I wasn't sure whether it was a sasquatch,

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but the impression that I got was that this thing

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was canine. And at the time, and I'll get into

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00:16:37,759 --> 00:16:42,000
more detail in it shortly, but at the time I

240
00:16:42,039 --> 00:16:44,720
couldn't understand what on earth I was picking up. Now

241
00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:46,960
I'll say picking up. What am I talking about? Well,

242
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:52,559
I'm quite a sensitive I've got really good spider senses,

243
00:16:52,559 --> 00:16:58,120
if you like that. More than often not do turn

244
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,159
out to be very very accurate. They don't always save

245
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,240
me from everything in life, but I always get some

246
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:10,680
kind of intuition or feeling about things. So yeah, it

247
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:17,920
was a person, a kind of spiritual teacher, a man

248
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,799
called Kem Paige, who I've been working with since nineteen

249
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:26,079
ninety five. I began really that part of my spiritual journey.

250
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,799
I'd worked with different spiritual teachers, but really because I'd

251
00:17:29,839 --> 00:17:33,160
had my own spiritual awakening, and everyone that I went

252
00:17:33,279 --> 00:17:39,000
on courses with just began to really sharpen and hone

253
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:45,160
those experiences and those gifts and abilities. And so I

254
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,119
went at the age of twenty four, just before my

255
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:53,000
twenty fifth birthday, and because of my childhood, the trauma

256
00:17:53,039 --> 00:17:55,599
of my kind of upbringing, and the way that he

257
00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:00,839
had left me, feeling I never I was going to

258
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,480
live past the age of twenty five. I had a

259
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,279
really strong feeling that I was going to die before

260
00:18:06,279 --> 00:18:09,559
I was twenty five because my life had been pretty

261
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,480
rough and it just seemed that that got into my head.

262
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,799
So I went on this course in Austin, Texas, and

263
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,640
at that time, as usual, I was usually one of

264
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,200
the youngest people there because I was only in my

265
00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:27,319
early twenties. And working with Ken was fantastic because we

266
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,799
had a really, really great connection and he taught me

267
00:18:31,839 --> 00:18:34,759
about being an EmPATH. Now, I know there's a lot

268
00:18:34,799 --> 00:18:36,799
of people that say, oh, yeah, I'm an EmPATH, I'm

269
00:18:36,799 --> 00:18:40,400
an EmPATH, they're an EmPATH. Well, for me, it's not

270
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,559
a label, it's something which I am a living, breathing example,

271
00:18:44,599 --> 00:18:48,680
of as I've grown older. It was something which really

272
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,960
really troubled me in younger life. But when I worked

273
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,960
with Ken out there in the US in ninety five,

274
00:18:56,319 --> 00:19:01,559
it began to show me just how powerful that gift

275
00:19:01,599 --> 00:19:05,359
can be. Not only that, but it enabled me to

276
00:19:05,599 --> 00:19:08,839
differentiate with it and to be able to shut it

277
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,599
down and switch it on to the point where now

278
00:19:12,599 --> 00:19:15,519
I can go into a crowded environment, although I find

279
00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:20,599
them still a little bit overwhelming, but I can shut

280
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:27,799
that noise out otherwise it'll be overwhelming and really really

281
00:19:27,839 --> 00:19:34,000
difficult to handle. When I'm in a therapeutic setting, or

282
00:19:34,039 --> 00:19:36,519
I can focus on a single person to connect with,

283
00:19:38,839 --> 00:19:42,200
then I can pick up certain impressions or feelings or

284
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,759
insights over thousands of miles. And there's people that I've

285
00:19:46,759 --> 00:19:49,240
gone on to recently in the last couple of years,

286
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:54,880
I've gone into spaces on X on Twitter, We've been

287
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,720
in some really great kind of encounter groups, experience the groups,

288
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,400
and I've tuned into people over thousands of miles away

289
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,519
and picked up exactly what's been going on with them

290
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:10,640
on some level, be that physical, emotional, mental, or even

291
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,400
sort of subconsciously, you know, an energy pattern around them.

292
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,039
So that gift is something which I've used. I've used

293
00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:23,279
it therapeutically for years, but I've never really settled down

294
00:20:23,319 --> 00:20:25,079
and gone, this is the one thing that I do.

295
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,599
There are people out there, some people call them medical intuitives.

296
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,279
There's quite a few well renowned people that do exactly

297
00:20:32,319 --> 00:20:35,880
the sort of thing that I can do. So I

298
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,359
kind of have often shelved that side of myself in

299
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,039
life and just got on with what I needed to

300
00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:43,720
do what was in front of me, working jobs, keeping

301
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:50,440
a house, you know, living a life. So yeah, what

302
00:20:50,519 --> 00:20:54,839
led me then was from nineteen ninety five life moved

303
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,960
on and I bought a house, settled into a job,

304
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:05,160
regular job, and then the advert came round from Ken

305
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:10,240
that we were going to have a teacher training running

306
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,640
in his new home in Mountain Ranch in California in

307
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,240
April of two thousand and one. So I bought my

308
00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:21,839
house in the kind of August of that year, renovated it,

309
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:27,000
moved into it in December, got my first credit card.

310
00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:28,759
So when the when the when the news came around

311
00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:31,119
that Ken was running his teacher training, and I was like,

312
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,599
I've got a credit card, I'm booking a flight. I'm

313
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:39,039
going because I felt like that the people that do

314
00:21:39,839 --> 00:21:44,240
the work, and I felt that I was more like

315
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:50,319
part of the work. I would yeah, struggle to probably

316
00:21:50,319 --> 00:21:55,000
define what I mean by that, but for me, it

317
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:59,880
was something which literally was part of my DNA. So

318
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,079
it's a very advanced hypno therapeutic technique. So it involves

319
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:12,480
exploring things like your deep subconscious mind, energy patterns, neural pathways.

320
00:22:12,519 --> 00:22:15,519
It can be path lives, parallel lives, we can use it,

321
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:21,759
suity text illnesses and what their route causes. And it's

322
00:22:21,799 --> 00:22:24,799
a very very I mean, it's almost like wow, talk

323
00:22:24,839 --> 00:22:27,519
about a reality change, a game changer in terms of

324
00:22:28,039 --> 00:22:29,920
and I still don't think it has much of a

325
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:37,759
parallel even to this day in terms of the power

326
00:22:37,839 --> 00:22:41,880
of that therapeutic medium. And it was called multi dimensional

327
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,599
cellular healing, so it was about working with the cellular

328
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,240
intelligence of your whole body, which is connected to your

329
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,559
subconscious mind, which is part of our deeper consciousness. And

330
00:22:54,640 --> 00:23:00,519
so that's a really kind of really woo area, if

331
00:23:00,559 --> 00:23:03,200
you like. But it's fascinating when you tap into it

332
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,279
and see the power of the subconscious mind or what

333
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:11,359
it can do. So what went on was, yep, it

334
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,240
was two thousand and one, the teacher training was advertised,

335
00:23:14,279 --> 00:23:18,640
so I jumped on a plane and got out to

336
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:24,680
Mountain Ranch, California. Had a great time on the April training.

337
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:30,240
Metal load of people, great people. Where they are. Their

338
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,079
property that they had at the time was right out

339
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,799
in the mountains. It was in the middle of a forest,

340
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,160
built up on the side of a hill. About four

341
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,000
hours I think it's about four hours inland from San Francisco,

342
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,440
so you know, it's a journey to get there, but

343
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:50,559
a beautiful, beautiful area old gold Rush country, as I recall.

344
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:57,119
So the and I've met some really fantastic people, but

345
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,559
I'm still friends with to this day, and a few

346
00:24:01,559 --> 00:24:04,319
of us that really connected. We would go outside and

347
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,519
hang out, you know, at night talking. We made a

348
00:24:07,519 --> 00:24:09,240
little there was a little dell next to the house.

349
00:24:09,279 --> 00:24:11,279
We built a little fire pit there and so we'd

350
00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:16,559
sit around and you know, stories, talk about life, explore

351
00:24:16,599 --> 00:24:20,640
the kind of mysteries. We also just enjoying the ambience

352
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,799
of being in that beautiful area with nothing and nobody

353
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:30,839
really around. So after that training, I had some really

354
00:24:30,839 --> 00:24:35,759
really powerful experiences there and then came home, gone on

355
00:24:35,799 --> 00:24:41,599
with my everyday life, and then obviously the world had

356
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:47,480
the very very sad and traumatic experience of nine to

357
00:24:47,519 --> 00:24:52,079
eleven in the September, and one of the people that

358
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,279
i'd met on the course was a girl called April,

359
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,680
who was about twenty one at the time. We became

360
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,680
really good friends, and she came out to visit me

361
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:06,119
and my partner in the UK. I put her on

362
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,440
a plane on that morning, went back to my job.

363
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,079
She was flying into or meant to fly into Philadelphia,

364
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,759
I think, And I got a phone call from my

365
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,359
girlfriend at the time saying, nath have you heard from April?

366
00:25:23,279 --> 00:25:25,880
And I'm sat at a desk in a job center

367
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,880
and I said, well, no, why, she's still in the air.

368
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,160
So I'm considered put her on a plane this morning.

369
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,960
She said, oh, someone's attacked the twin towers. They've flown

370
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,279
a plane and flat planes have hit the twin towers

371
00:25:38,279 --> 00:25:45,039
in New York. So I didn't know what to do

372
00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:48,160
because I'm sat there, you know, I've got a schedule

373
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,160
of clients to see that day. But on my lunch

374
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,160
hour I went out in the car and just drove

375
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,079
where I was at the time. I could drive to

376
00:25:56,799 --> 00:26:03,799
the estuary of the sea and very very strange sort

377
00:26:03,799 --> 00:26:07,720
of experience. It took me obviously. I went home that

378
00:26:07,799 --> 00:26:10,839
night watched all the footage on the TV, all of

379
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,400
the people dying and building swalling and all that chaos,

380
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,960
and I had no idea whether my friend was alive

381
00:26:20,079 --> 00:26:23,440
or dead, and it really brought it home to me.

382
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,160
But then I finally heard from her, probably about five

383
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,640
days later, and she had actually been diverted out of

384
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,160
the air to somewhere in Canada. She ended up, i

385
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,680
think in the end, saying with these Canadian families for

386
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,319
about two weeks before she could get home back to Philly.

387
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:47,319
So yeah. Then Ken put the word round that he

388
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,839
was running another training in November of two thousand and one,

389
00:26:51,079 --> 00:26:54,160
and so I said, okay, great, I'm going to come

390
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,880
out again, support the training, meet new people. I'm one

391
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,400
of the trainers now, so I'm going to be kind

392
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:04,880
of participating but also on staff. And the modality would

393
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,119
then he changed the name to Heart and Soul Healing.

394
00:27:08,279 --> 00:27:14,599
So obviously that trip to back to the US was

395
00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:17,240
very very different, because in the wake of nine to eleven,

396
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:19,440
the US became a very very different place. I think

397
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,359
the nation he were still very much hurting from it all.

398
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:28,680
The shock, the trauma, and so you know, everyone was

399
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,119
far more on edge. There was a lot more people

400
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,279
around with weapons and obviously everyone flying the flag. So

401
00:27:35,559 --> 00:27:41,319
it wasn't as you know, pleasant a place as it

402
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,160
had been in the earlier part of the year. The

403
00:27:44,279 --> 00:27:45,880
energy had changed quite a bit, and where they were

404
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,200
in California, they'd had I think some wildfires that had

405
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:54,160
really affected the landscape. They'd affected the water table turned

406
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,519
I remember Ken's water actually the water supplying the well turning,

407
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,279
you know, kind of yellow. And so there's been a

408
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:06,160
lot of drought and then fire, so that the whole

409
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,240
ecosystem was affected. But anyway, we sort of got there.

410
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,519
April line met up, We got a hive car in

411
00:28:12,559 --> 00:28:18,079
San Francisco, drove out into the mountains and Kenneth sent

412
00:28:18,079 --> 00:28:21,400
a message to say when you come, don't drive up

413
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,480
the main drive. We've just had it retarmacked resurfaced, so

414
00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:28,640
if you can park up somewhere and then come up

415
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,680
and we'll let you through one of the other gates.

416
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:38,039
So middle of the night, gets out to mountain ranch,

417
00:28:38,119 --> 00:28:44,079
finds their property, go past the gate to their drive,

418
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,839
the gates shut and next to it, literally directly next

419
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,519
to it. There was a little pull off. It looked

420
00:28:51,559 --> 00:28:55,319
like another little road going kind of off to the

421
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,359
left up the hill. So barrenly in mind, you're surrounded

422
00:28:58,359 --> 00:29:00,880
by great, big, tall pine trees. There's nothing. I mean,

423
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,480
the occasional lights you see from houses were very few

424
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,559
and far between. Ken's property was illuminated. So we parked

425
00:29:08,599 --> 00:29:12,440
the car. The high car, walked up by the drive,

426
00:29:12,599 --> 00:29:14,720
went in, said hi, you know, had to chat to

427
00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:20,160
catch up, sat down, had a drink, and after about

428
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,000
kind of ten minutes or so, I said, right, I'm

429
00:29:24,039 --> 00:29:25,839
going to go and you know, bring the car up

430
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:30,519
and get the bags so on the back down and

431
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,680
you know, I'm not really paying attention because I'm still

432
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,759
kind of buzzing a bit jet lagged. You know, it's

433
00:29:34,799 --> 00:29:36,720
late in the evening, so I kind of strung out,

434
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,240
put in a good space, got to the bottom of

435
00:29:40,279 --> 00:29:43,240
the hill down by the drive, turned left to go

436
00:29:43,319 --> 00:29:46,920
and see where the car was. That the car was gone.

437
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,720
So yeah, like I've been traveling for nearly twenty four

438
00:29:50,759 --> 00:29:53,519
hours at this point, I'm so fired and strung out.

439
00:29:54,519 --> 00:29:58,559
So I don't know whether to be you know, completely

440
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,839
enraged or just you know, laugh about it, or a

441
00:30:01,839 --> 00:30:05,799
mixture of both, because my bags and passport, everything's in

442
00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:10,079
the car. I mean, who is going to steal that

443
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,559
car in the middle of nowhere? So I got back

444
00:30:13,559 --> 00:30:15,599
into the house and then there was a you know,

445
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,839
a kind of a where's my car? You know, who

446
00:30:19,839 --> 00:30:22,880
on earth has taken the car? What is going on

447
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:29,079
in this crazy place? So it Yeah, after a couple

448
00:30:29,119 --> 00:30:32,319
of phone calls, it turned out that the neighbor had

449
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:38,039
kindly had it towed for us. So anyway, there was

450
00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:40,880
a few head in hands moments. It was like, okay, well,

451
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,480
what have we got to do to just get this done?

452
00:30:43,799 --> 00:30:47,839
So we finally got taken into the middle of nowhere,

453
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:53,359
middle of the night, paid the fine, got the car back,

454
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,960
drove it back all the way, and then this time

455
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,839
we were allowed to take it up the drive. So

456
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,680
I took it up the drive. I've been up quite

457
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:06,200
a steep little slope, probably about less than one hundred yards,

458
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,039
and then it opened out into a round area which

459
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,359
like a like a pull round I guess where you

460
00:31:11,359 --> 00:31:13,160
could come up and go round in front of the

461
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,119
house and come back down. So I had like a

462
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,359
sort of a you know, circular area at the top

463
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,960
of the drive, and this was quite a steep slope,

464
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,440
so and as you drove up to the top of

465
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,480
the property would be on your right hand side and

466
00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:30,319
kind of going from right to left in front of you.

467
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,519
And yeah, so I parked the car up on the

468
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,319
on the kind of corner there, just sort of turned

469
00:31:35,359 --> 00:31:39,519
it right at the top of the drive and then

470
00:31:40,279 --> 00:31:42,920
went back in the house and we kind of, you know,

471
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,319
could laugh about it a bit then, I suppose. So

472
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,240
I said, okay, ll I'm going to go and get

473
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:53,359
the bags this time. And I went outside, went round

474
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,920
to the trunk of the car, put the key and

475
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,720
popped the trunk, got my bag out to put my

476
00:32:00,799 --> 00:32:05,880
back down on the ground, and shut the trunk. All

477
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,720
the hair stood up on the back of my neck

478
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:18,359
and something was clearly near me. And then what I

479
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:24,200
picked up was this thing. Whatever it was, just felt

480
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,720
like it was quite a large thing. Shifted its position

481
00:32:27,839 --> 00:32:32,839
or it breathed, it did something like a shuffle like

482
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:40,039
a and yeah, you go into that instant fight or flight,

483
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,400
and something in my mind just said, don't run, just walk.

484
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,599
And so to give you an idea of where this was,

485
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,240
probably within a car's length of where the drive came

486
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,200
up to meet the kind of pull in area the

487
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,599
pull round. Because of the drive was built up on

488
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,240
a bank and so was the pull round. It kind

489
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,279
of made this little ninety degree angle where the two

490
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,440
banks kind of met at ninety degrees, which made quite

491
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,519
a little dip. And there were a few good sized

492
00:33:13,559 --> 00:33:19,519
fir trees in there, so it made that area quite camouflaged.

493
00:33:21,599 --> 00:33:24,480
But that thing was within a car's length of me

494
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,440
when I felt it and when I heard it, so

495
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,920
I had no idea what it was, but I did

496
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,559
the kind of, you know, very swift and purposeful walk

497
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,359
towards that front door, got in, shut the door, and

498
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,160
I was like, WHOA, what was that? Now? Bearing in

499
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:44,799
mind I live in the UK, I've been used to

500
00:33:44,839 --> 00:33:46,880
going up and down the hills and around the woods

501
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,119
at night. I'm not really fazed by much because there's nothing, well,

502
00:33:50,319 --> 00:33:52,559
I didn't think there was much in the UK to

503
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,440
ever really be wary of. Yeah, we've got rid of

504
00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,599
most of our large creatures and predator and and many

505
00:34:00,599 --> 00:34:04,440
many centuries ago, so there's really shouldn't be anything around.

506
00:34:06,839 --> 00:34:08,400
So when you pick up something and you are in

507
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:13,639
technically a foreign country, then it becomes a questionable what

508
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:19,239
was that? But it was clearly something and all I

509
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,039
could say was it was it felt large, and it

510
00:34:23,079 --> 00:34:26,440
also felt quite sentient because it the way that it

511
00:34:26,519 --> 00:34:30,079
made that noise that were kind of like tough noise.

512
00:34:30,119 --> 00:34:34,239
It was almost like it was just shifting its posture

513
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,840
a little bit and wasn't that interested in Well, it

514
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,199
had me dead to rights. If it was a really

515
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,840
serious predator, it would have had me right there and then,

516
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,320
but it didn't. So you got in the house kind

517
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:47,599
of put it out of my mind and just thought,

518
00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:52,840
maybe you're just being a bit, you know, a bit paranoid,

519
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,519
or you're a bit you're a bit strung out still

520
00:34:54,559 --> 00:34:57,960
and you need to just sleep. So yeah, we had

521
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,920
a few other people who there in the house sort

522
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,360
of coming on the course with us, and so I

523
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,719
ended up sleeping on the lounge floor on a camp

524
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:12,440
bed that night. And then, you know, the property was

525
00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:14,960
kind of a little bit illuminated outside as I remember,

526
00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:22,639
so it wasn't that cold. And one of the windows, Now,

527
00:35:22,679 --> 00:35:25,880
obviously you have mesh screens on everything in the US,

528
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,079
and so the screen was across the window by the

529
00:35:29,079 --> 00:35:32,960
front door, but I think the window itself was open,

530
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,440
and I just woke up because I was lying behind

531
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,199
the sofa on this camp bed, and I just woke

532
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:49,440
up with this overwhelming concern of a feeling that this

533
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,960
thing was going to jump through the mesh, almost like

534
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,000
I could feel it poised to jump. And every fiber

535
00:35:57,039 --> 00:35:59,679
of my being was like, it's coming through the window.

536
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,920
Whatever it is is coming through the window like a

537
00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:05,920
you know, was it a mountain line or something or

538
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,440
something big on all fours, It's going to come through

539
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,719
the window. So I got out of the bed, kept

540
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,559
myself really low to the ground, kind of trying to

541
00:36:15,639 --> 00:36:18,320
duck under the window ledge come up and actually, like

542
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,519
you know, shut the window and locked it and put

543
00:36:22,519 --> 00:36:28,199
the screen back and anyway, went back to bed. And

544
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,559
so then the course went on for about five days.

545
00:36:30,599 --> 00:36:34,039
We had a lot of other people there milling around.

546
00:36:34,119 --> 00:36:39,639
It was a bit strange, and I just kept picking

547
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,079
up this presence. And I remember halfway through the week

548
00:36:42,159 --> 00:36:44,559
going and talking to Ken. We were in the kitchen

549
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:51,119
and his wife was there, and I was saying, you know,

550
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:52,960
I know I can tell you stuff like this because

551
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:54,760
you used to all the kind of like weird and

552
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,119
weird stuff. But I still I swear we're being stalked.

553
00:36:57,639 --> 00:37:01,639
Something is out there. I can feel it. There's something

554
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:10,000
stalking this group. It's drawn to us somehow. And Ken

555
00:37:10,159 --> 00:37:11,840
was like, what do you think it is? And I said, well, look,

556
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,280
I get I don't know, but I said, what have

557
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,320
you got around here? Because it feels like to me.

558
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,079
I said, no, it's going to sound strange, but it

559
00:37:18,119 --> 00:37:22,320
feels like it is canine. And I said, like a

560
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,760
big canine creature. But you know, I can't be sure.

561
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:32,079
So that point is whif sort of said to me, Oh,

562
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,360
it was funny you should say that, because only a

563
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,039
few days ago the neighbor from down the hill here

564
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,159
in front of us. The neighbor called us and said,

565
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,480
you need to be aware that there is a great,

566
00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:51,440
big black feral dog roaming round. We've seen it. It's

567
00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:54,800
come through our property. It was heading towards your property

568
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,920
kind of thing. So she said, well, maybe that's what

569
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:04,079
you're picking up. I said, well, yeah, it could be,

570
00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:08,599
I said, but you know, I'm just very aware of it.

571
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:14,119
So yeah. The course went on. We did a couple

572
00:38:14,159 --> 00:38:15,679
of things, like went out and did a sweat lodge

573
00:38:15,679 --> 00:38:20,280
down in the neighboring town, and then kind of came

574
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,039
back and then yeah, the course wasn't really as much

575
00:38:23,079 --> 00:38:25,199
fun as the last one. There was a few discordant

576
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,239
personalities on it and it made it a bit more,

577
00:38:27,679 --> 00:38:31,360
you know, a bit less enjoyable than the first time round,

578
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,480
but you know, just got on with it and so on.

579
00:38:34,559 --> 00:38:38,360
One of the sort of last nights, Oh yeah, that

580
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,920
was got to the point where Ken was like, yeah,

581
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,440
we've got too many people in the house. Do you

582
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,079
want to go out, you know, so we can make

583
00:38:46,119 --> 00:38:47,719
some space, you know, would you be happy because you're

584
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:48,960
one of the guys, would you be happy to go

585
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:50,760
out and sleep in the back of this guy, Mike,

586
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,199
one of the guys was there, great guy, and would

587
00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:55,880
you be happy to go and sleep out in the

588
00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:00,760
back of Mike's truck? And I was like, well, not

589
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,239
unless you're going to give me a gun. I was like, yeah,

590
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,280
you get in. I told you there's something out there.

591
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,360
We're being stalked. I was like, you can't just put

592
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,119
me out there like I'm a piece of prey, like

593
00:39:12,159 --> 00:39:14,039
a piece of bait. I was like, can you please

594
00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:17,280
take it seriously? So anyway, I didn't, you know, I

595
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:18,719
wasn't made to go and sleep out in the truck,

596
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,440
but like a day later or two days later, myself

597
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,079
in April went out, sat down, had a little campfire

598
00:39:25,079 --> 00:39:29,440
going out in the dell, and so you came out

599
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,199
of the front door of the property, you'd go literally

600
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,800
to the right, there's like a white beam fence and

601
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:35,960
a gap in the fence where you come through like

602
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:43,679
the gate round to the right into the dell. It was, yeah,

603
00:39:43,679 --> 00:39:45,960
obviously not that late at night, but it was still

604
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,719
pitch black because it's obviously winter. We had the fire

605
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:53,000
ache there and a great big flash flight. So we're

606
00:39:53,039 --> 00:39:57,239
in there for probably an hour, chatting away, just hanging out.

607
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,480
And then in the woodline, the woodline which was kind

608
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,840
of directly ahead from us, probably i'd say no more

609
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,679
than a one hundred and fifty feet up the most,

610
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,599
if I'm trying to guess, to make as memory serves,

611
00:40:13,679 --> 00:40:15,559
there's a load of kind of commotion, and directly in

612
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:21,360
front of us, a great, big white tailed deer appears, turns,

613
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,000
comes running out of the woodline. I don't know whether

614
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,199
it saw us, probably saw us. It turns literally night

615
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:32,679
degrees to its left straight away, runs straight down the woodline,

616
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,639
running parallel to the woodline, but more obviously in the open,

617
00:40:37,519 --> 00:40:41,559
and then it's followed by four others in swift succession.

618
00:40:41,559 --> 00:40:44,760
And you know, they're big animals, you know, So like

619
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,639
I say, when we see a deer in the UK,

620
00:40:46,679 --> 00:40:49,679
it's a bit of a surprise because they're so rare here,

621
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,599
and obviously they're much more like a you know, a

622
00:40:54,639 --> 00:40:56,639
pet animal. If you see one, obviously one in the world,

623
00:40:56,639 --> 00:40:59,639
it's quite an enigma. So I was like, oh, wow,

624
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:04,880
you know, big deer. And then something else came forward,

625
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,599
and by this time I grabbed the flashlight and I

626
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,199
was holding the flashlight onto the the kind of game

627
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:16,880
trail bit in the in the wood life, I suppose

628
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:24,199
where they were coming through. And then what appeared was

629
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:29,480
a pair of large forward facing eyes, and so April said, oh,

630
00:41:29,519 --> 00:41:32,599
what is that Is that another deer And I just

631
00:41:32,679 --> 00:41:35,960
immediately said, no, it's got forward facing eyes. That's a predator.

632
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,719
And she said, oh, I said, whatever that is that

633
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,760
was chasing the deer anyway. I mean, we had a

634
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,840
big campfire going. I've got a big flashlight full on

635
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:54,719
this thing's face. It just stopped just inside the woodline.

636
00:41:55,199 --> 00:41:58,199
At the distance it was, I would estimate that its

637
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,239
eyes which were like large. They did give off a

638
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:07,199
kind of greeny yellow eyeshine and it blinked, but it

639
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:14,599
didn't flee. It stood its ground and just stayed there,

640
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,159
fixated on us. And what it reminded me of was,

641
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,039
you know when you see a wall for a big

642
00:42:20,079 --> 00:42:25,199
predator when they kind of like hunkered down and they

643
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:29,000
lower their head and really focus on their prey before

644
00:42:29,039 --> 00:42:33,960
they lunge. It looked or felt exactly like that. Now,

645
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,400
this flashlight was a very powerful flashlight, but it could

646
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,239
not pick up or illuminate this thing's features. It was

647
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,239
like it was blacker than black, almost like it absorbed

648
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,519
the light, and all you saw were these massive eyes.

649
00:42:47,639 --> 00:42:51,599
So I've always said that the head on this thing

650
00:42:51,679 --> 00:42:55,079
must have been the size of a big male Bengal

651
00:42:55,119 --> 00:43:00,320
tiger or bigger, really big, because of the how far

652
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:06,400
the eyes were apart, probably about the you know, almost

653
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,480
like the spam of my hand if I open up

654
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,280
my thumb and my forefingers, you know, almost probably I

655
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,360
don't know, five or six inches apart. It's a big

656
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,880
head on whatever it was. And I just didn't think

657
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,800
you had anything in the US that large. I don't

658
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,360
think mountain lions get anything like that large. Plus I

659
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,599
didn't think it would stay and kind of have a

660
00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:32,280
Mexican stand off with us, So I didn't waste any time,

661
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:36,079
and I said to April, right hold the flashlight, keep

662
00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:38,440
it on its face. I'm going to grab the fire ache.

663
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:43,880
We're gonna have to get in the house. And so

664
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:45,920
in those kind of moments you just sort of for me,

665
00:43:46,159 --> 00:43:48,079
I just shut down into what's kind of practical on

666
00:43:48,159 --> 00:43:52,880
what you just need to do to survive. This thing

667
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:58,519
just just watched us intently, and we had to go

668
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,039
forward a little bit towards it diagonally to get round

669
00:44:02,119 --> 00:44:04,760
this fence, this white fence, to get into the house.

670
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,119
So we had to kind of come forward about sort

671
00:44:07,159 --> 00:44:09,920
of twenty feet before we could run back towards the house.

672
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,159
So we didn't turn our backs on it, kept facing

673
00:44:13,199 --> 00:44:15,840
it and I said, keep that light right in its face.

674
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,400
So we managed to get back into the house. And

675
00:44:24,079 --> 00:44:26,920
you know that it was a bit like, well, what

676
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,280
was that? Sorry? Big? But yeah, it really was like

677
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,639
what on earth was that? What could it be? But

678
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,239
it felt like that it was coming towards the end

679
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:45,519
of the course, and it finally showed itself and just

680
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:53,800
menaced us but didn't try and attack us. Yeah, very

681
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:59,159
very strange. So and then obviously I came back. Well,

682
00:44:59,159 --> 00:45:01,760
we started heading back, we went off traveling to Santa

683
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,480
Cruz and then a message. Ken and his wife had

684
00:45:04,519 --> 00:45:08,639
bought a couple of baby goats, and after the course

685
00:45:08,639 --> 00:45:10,400
had finished, they went out and got these baby goats

686
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,119
and they kind of took them back to the house

687
00:45:13,159 --> 00:45:15,000
and where they had some you know, sort of like

688
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,920
a in the kind of backyard area. I can't remember

689
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:20,599
if they had horses or I think they might have

690
00:45:20,639 --> 00:45:24,280
had some stables area. Anyway, they tied these these baby

691
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,760
goats these kids up outside and so, you know, less

692
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,960
than a week later, a few days later, we got

693
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:35,000
a message through by email because there wasn't any incident

694
00:45:35,039 --> 00:45:40,480
at that time, saying that the baby goats had been shredded.

695
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,760
Literally they came out one morning and the goats were

696
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:49,960
just shredded, like torn to pieces. And then the kind

697
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,320
of question began, you know, almost like a witch hunt

698
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:57,559
of whose negative energy created this happening. And one of

699
00:45:57,559 --> 00:45:59,039
the guys that have been on the course was an

700
00:45:59,039 --> 00:46:00,639
ex cop and he was like, yeah, hang on, what

701
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,400
about this big black dog thing that was going around

702
00:46:04,639 --> 00:46:07,360
and I was like, I told you there was a

703
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,920
predator going round. It's like, no, this was something else.

704
00:46:11,159 --> 00:46:14,599
We were being stalked. You put live food in temptation

705
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:20,360
in its way, and it basically shredded your goats, you know.

706
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,480
So yeah, it was a bit. Anyway, it just created

707
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,599
a big rift in the kind of group in the community,

708
00:46:27,679 --> 00:46:29,559
and I think people were sort of like pointing fingers

709
00:46:29,599 --> 00:46:31,679
and saying, oh, this person said this and that person

710
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,880
said that. So anyway, it sort of created a big

711
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:39,920
sort of aftermath. But I just went home and kind

712
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,760
of got on with life. But the memory of that

713
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:48,480
never left me, and so I began to, like I say,

714
00:46:49,039 --> 00:46:51,559
as a twentieth anniversary was approaching, I began to sort

715
00:46:51,599 --> 00:46:55,320
of think about, well, what was that was I had

716
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:59,320
I had an encounter with a sas squatch? Or was

717
00:46:59,639 --> 00:47:02,480
what was this thing about it being a canine? Now

718
00:47:02,599 --> 00:47:04,559
there wasn't really any Internet at the time, like I said,

719
00:47:04,599 --> 00:47:08,400
so we had never had the chance to sort of

720
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,840
research and get into any depth in it. And the

721
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:18,159
whole dog man phenomenon had never been on my radar

722
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,719
or I don't think many other people's radar. So that's

723
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:23,440
when I saw a couple of I think there was

724
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:27,199
some spoof YouTube videos about the dog man, and that's

725
00:47:27,199 --> 00:47:29,800
where it kind of led me. And eventually I, you know,

726
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,880
found Vic's podcast and began listening to the episodes, and

727
00:47:36,039 --> 00:47:39,239
it finally sort of made sense that we although there

728
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:44,039
have been reports of sasquatch in Mountain Ranch, California over

729
00:47:44,039 --> 00:47:49,960
the years, that what I had encountered I'm sure was

730
00:47:50,079 --> 00:47:54,440
a dog man. And so obviously the more I've listened

731
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,639
to the encounters, the more it's kind of brought back

732
00:47:56,679 --> 00:48:01,639
other memories from my own life, right from early childhood.

733
00:48:02,519 --> 00:48:06,280
So I begun to see that there is a pattern

734
00:48:06,679 --> 00:48:10,480
with these things that I have encountered them for a

735
00:48:10,559 --> 00:48:17,280
long time in my life. That encounter in the US

736
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,400
was a very physical and real one that was a

737
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:26,559
real creature wherever it was, it clearly had intelligence and

738
00:48:26,639 --> 00:48:32,360
it had real presence. So other times I've had the

739
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:38,519
encounters have been very different. And I was explaining this

740
00:48:38,639 --> 00:48:45,159
to Vic when we first spoke, that the earliest memory

741
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:50,159
I have from my childhood and I still see it

742
00:48:50,199 --> 00:48:54,519
vividly now in my mind. So I because it was

743
00:48:54,599 --> 00:48:57,360
so long ago, I can't tell you whether this is

744
00:48:57,679 --> 00:49:04,440
a dream or where this is a real memory, but

745
00:49:04,599 --> 00:49:10,239
it's absolutely clear. And where I was born in England

746
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:15,239
in the UK back in nineteen seventy was a little

747
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:22,519
town called Holebridge, and that is in Essex, in the

748
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:24,679
County of Essex, and it's on a river called the

749
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,400
River Crouch. One of the early episodes I remember listening

750
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,800
to somewhere along my journey with investigating this, and I

751
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:34,559
think it may have been on one of the early

752
00:49:36,039 --> 00:49:42,679
episodes of Vic's podcast was somebody from the UK reporting

753
00:49:43,199 --> 00:49:47,199
an experience of being chased across a bridge over the

754
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:54,320
River Crouch by some kind of werewolf creature. Now that

755
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:59,000
made me go oh, Now Holebridge was on the River Crouch.

756
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,800
So the ex which I think was it a dream

757
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:08,599
or is it a memory? Well maybe these things are connected.

758
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:10,599
So where the house was was on a bit of

759
00:50:11,079 --> 00:50:14,840
low lying flat land right at the bottom of the

760
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,320
little town and it's a really tiny town, like a

761
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,880
one road town down to the river. But where we

762
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,000
were was on the lower part than the town. Kind

763
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,000
of the road went up a little hill and then

764
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:29,400
straight and then it obviously ended in the River Crouch.

765
00:50:30,039 --> 00:50:32,119
So we're right at the start, not far from the

766
00:50:32,119 --> 00:50:34,440
main road. There's a little supermarket on the corner of

767
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,719
the road. As you kind of come you turn left,

768
00:50:38,119 --> 00:50:40,280
go up the road and take your eventually to the river.

769
00:50:40,639 --> 00:50:43,000
But on the left was a little supermarket back in

770
00:50:43,039 --> 00:50:45,639
the seventies. And then the house I was born in

771
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:51,559
was the next property with an adjoining wall into the

772
00:50:51,599 --> 00:50:55,559
car park of the supermarket. So the house I was

773
00:50:55,559 --> 00:50:59,280
born in had a relatively long garden, probably about one

774
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,880
hundred feet long or so, big willow trees at the

775
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,639
end of it, but dividing it from the neighboring property

776
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:10,840
was a huge hawthorn hedge. It was extremely dark, very thick,

777
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:15,599
very dense, obviously very thorny. It was probably about fifteen

778
00:51:15,639 --> 00:51:19,000
feet high, at least ten maybe fifteen feet high, really

779
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:23,760
big hedge, ancient hedge. So the memory is I've come

780
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,480
out of the back door onto the patio which had

781
00:51:27,519 --> 00:51:32,320
steps down into the garden. I'm only very little, I'm

782
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:36,639
about two, but I'm walking and i can see myself clearly,

783
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,920
my little body, my little face. I can see I'm

784
00:51:41,039 --> 00:51:44,920
wearing a nappy or you know, little pants, bare legs,

785
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:48,039
and I've gone down the garden. Now it's very early morning,

786
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:57,800
it's a very misty morning, so it's still sort of

787
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:04,960
not semi darkness, but that's time before dawn. And I've

788
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,199
walked down the middle of the garden and I've looked

789
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,880
to my right and turned to my right, and there's

790
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:17,320
the Hawthorne Hedge towering above me. And in the midst

791
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:23,639
on top of this hedge, there are a collection of

792
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:32,239
figures of creatures, all fur covered, all very supernatural looking,

793
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:38,400
ranging seven to eight feet high, some with tails, some

794
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:42,039
with not tails, but they all have long snouts of

795
00:52:42,079 --> 00:52:47,480
different description. They don't look particularly wolf like, but they

796
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:53,360
are all very much along that line, large hair covered

797
00:52:53,360 --> 00:53:00,559
creatures with long muzzles with teeth, fearsome looking things to

798
00:53:00,599 --> 00:53:03,320
behold in the mist, but they are almost appearing supernatural,

799
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:08,159
because how could something so heavy stand or sit on

800
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:16,480
that Hawthorne hedge without crushing it entirely. So I wasn't afraid.

801
00:53:16,559 --> 00:53:21,360
I remember just looking up and they just acknowledged me.

802
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,480
And I say, that's the strangest part of it, that

803
00:53:25,559 --> 00:53:31,480
they were there to simply acknowledge my being, that acknowledged

804
00:53:31,519 --> 00:53:34,760
me coming into incarnation, if you like that. I was

805
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:39,840
there and I was sentient aware and could walk, but

806
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,719
there was about I would say there was about seven

807
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,840
of them at the most, it might have been five.

808
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:49,800
It's hard to remember because it is a very strange impression,

809
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:51,519
but that is what I have left, and that's my

810
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:58,519
earliest earliest memory back from childhood. So it was only

811
00:53:58,599 --> 00:54:01,599
when I began to connect with Vick's show that I

812
00:54:01,639 --> 00:54:03,480
began to sort of put some of this stuff together

813
00:54:03,559 --> 00:54:06,880
and say, well, there seems to be a strange theme.

814
00:54:07,519 --> 00:54:11,159
What are these things? These are clearly supernatural beings that

815
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,119
I saw. But then I have obviously had a physical encounter,

816
00:54:15,519 --> 00:54:19,800
so so that would have been around nineteen seventy two.

817
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:24,840
Then there's another memory where it kind of broke the

818
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,079
dream of it, when I might went on a family

819
00:54:27,159 --> 00:54:30,480
holiday my NaN's side of the family, my mum's mum.

820
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,360
They were from Wales, so we used to try and

821
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:37,039
get back for a Welsh holiday into South Wales when

822
00:54:37,039 --> 00:54:40,039
we lived in Essex, and this would have been around

823
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:43,079
nineteen seventy three. So we went off with Nan and Grandad,

824
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,920
traveled all the way across land. It's quite a way

825
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,639
from the east right into the west of South Wales,

826
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:55,360
and there was a point in the journey it was

827
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,960
late at night and we seem to have stopped at

828
00:54:59,679 --> 00:55:02,079
al pub and it seemed to be in the middle

829
00:55:02,119 --> 00:55:07,000
of nowhere. So me being a little kid, I've probably

830
00:55:07,039 --> 00:55:09,719
got bored. It's you know, adults sat around having a

831
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:15,079
drink after they're having a break from the driving. And

832
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:18,519
so Nan offers to take me outside, and so I

833
00:55:18,559 --> 00:55:20,840
remember going out of the door with her, and then

834
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,360
we kind of so this pub was on a little road.

835
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,880
I have no idea where this place was, I couldn't

836
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,920
tell you, but we sort of turned to the right

837
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,079
and it seemed that that, you know, the the one

838
00:55:31,159 --> 00:55:34,239
kind of remaining light on the road, or the lights

839
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:37,400
outside the pub. It faded into darkness, and there seemed

840
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:42,719
to be a farm yard next to this pub. So

841
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:44,760
you came out the pub, turned right the farm. He

842
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,039
oldould have been along that side, at least there was

843
00:55:47,079 --> 00:55:51,639
a gate. And so I had this memory years ago,

844
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:57,960
and all I remember was Nan was taking me down there.

845
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:04,000
Then we saw a bunch of orange eyes, and the

846
00:56:04,039 --> 00:56:09,039
next thing, my nana's panicked and she's grabbed me. She ran,

847
00:56:09,199 --> 00:56:14,039
she fell over, really cut her arm and her knee,

848
00:56:15,039 --> 00:56:17,960
and she's got me inside the publem there's a huge panic.

849
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:20,760
Now for years I mean, my nan grew up in

850
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,159
you know, the early part of the century, and they

851
00:56:23,159 --> 00:56:26,199
had a lot of rats in the old houses that

852
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:27,920
used to live in. So as a kid, she was

853
00:56:28,039 --> 00:56:30,199
terrified because the rats used to be inside the walls

854
00:56:32,199 --> 00:56:33,840
and she had a massive fear of rats. And so

855
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:38,280
what she said was she had seen these orange eyes

856
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,360
and she thought it was a rat migration. So for

857
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,880
many many years I just kept that memory as well,

858
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,000
that's what it. Maybe it was rats. Never thought about

859
00:56:47,039 --> 00:56:52,199
it until you start to realize about the kind of

860
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:56,800
common thread amongst the experiences with dog men of orange eyes.

861
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,360
And when I remember, and I've sat down and kind

862
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,679
of meditated and go back into that memory, well, what

863
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,960
I remember was not seeing a sea of rats on

864
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:13,119
the floor with a multitude of eye shine. I remember

865
00:57:13,119 --> 00:57:18,440
distinctly seeing about five or six sets of amber eyes

866
00:57:19,519 --> 00:57:25,360
open in that gateway in the darkness. These eyes appeared,

867
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:28,679
and they weren't on the ground, and they weren't timely

868
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,199
like rat size. They were big. They were all probably

869
00:57:32,239 --> 00:57:35,000
about five or six feet off the ground. There was

870
00:57:35,039 --> 00:57:36,519
a couple of larger ones, and then there was a

871
00:57:36,559 --> 00:57:39,480
couple of smaller ones. So I remember larger ones were

872
00:57:39,519 --> 00:57:42,800
on the sort of left hand side and the smaller

873
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:46,519
ones kind of going down to the right. But about

874
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:50,960
five six sets of eyes opened and that's when my

875
00:57:51,039 --> 00:57:56,639
Nan screamed and panicked and ran. So I think what

876
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:00,920
we had was an encounter in South Wales in the

877
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:04,920
early seventies, and to me it's made sense now that well, no,

878
00:58:05,039 --> 00:58:09,039
that was probably more a hunting pack of dog men

879
00:58:09,079 --> 00:58:12,400
and that's why Nan ran, but she couldn't process what

880
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:17,039
they would be and obviously it's taken me decade to

881
00:58:17,119 --> 00:58:24,079
figure this out. So that happened a few years later,

882
00:58:24,159 --> 00:58:27,800
no more than sort of nineteen seventy five, my mum

883
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,159
and dad split up. There was a very messy breakup,

884
00:58:32,079 --> 00:58:34,039
very traumatizing for me. I ended up living with my

885
00:58:34,119 --> 00:58:38,519
nan and granddad for a while. My mum then sat

886
00:58:38,599 --> 00:58:43,239
up home with my now ex stepfather and I was

887
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:45,440
kind of six, I think, before I went to live

888
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:49,000
with them, and then one year into the relationship, we

889
00:58:49,039 --> 00:58:53,800
went to It was Halloween and my stepfather's kind of

890
00:58:54,159 --> 00:58:58,480
troubled alcoholic older brother, Andy's wife had moved to this

891
00:58:58,559 --> 00:59:01,599
place in Harriage, which is a town on the kind

892
00:59:01,639 --> 00:59:05,320
of east coast of the UK in Suffolk County of Suffolk,

893
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:09,960
and it was Halloween, so we drove up there and

894
00:59:10,079 --> 00:59:14,679
this house was on a kind of development where this

895
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,360
was probably one of the last properties on this plot

896
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:19,000
of land, and it was on a bit of a hill.

897
00:59:19,199 --> 00:59:21,639
It looked over this kind of waste ground going down,

898
00:59:22,039 --> 00:59:25,599
I suppose, over the other developments into the town, so

899
00:59:25,639 --> 00:59:27,000
it was sort of at the top of a hill

900
00:59:29,119 --> 00:59:31,159
and kind of out there wasn't it wasn't surrounded by

901
00:59:31,159 --> 00:59:32,599
lots of other properties. There was probably a couple of

902
00:59:32,639 --> 00:59:37,119
other properties where this development just sort of finished. So

903
00:59:37,159 --> 00:59:38,719
there was a little sort of seven year old kid.

904
00:59:38,719 --> 00:59:41,000
I'm there and it's all adult stuff, you know, adults

905
00:59:41,039 --> 00:59:45,360
getting drunk, and I was misbehaving, picking up on all

906
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:52,960
the weird stuff going on. And then my mother, who yeah,

907
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:58,639
definitely was a very odd individual, decided it be great

908
00:59:58,679 --> 01:00:04,760
if we did a weiji aboard, which everyone was like, oh, okay, yeah, great,

909
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:07,519
you know, and I thought, oh no, don't do that,

910
01:00:07,719 --> 01:00:09,400
and you know, you're like a seven year old kid,

911
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:19,320
and you think that's terrifying. So they got bits of

912
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:21,480
paper out, wrote in all the alphabet you know, all

913
01:00:21,519 --> 01:00:23,559
the sort of yes no things, got a glass and

914
01:00:23,679 --> 01:00:25,760
all sat around the kind of like pine dining room

915
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:32,800
table up against the wall, and just I had to

916
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:34,239
sit there with him. I had nowhere else to go,

917
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:39,000
some kind of like sat in one corner. Well, these

918
01:00:39,039 --> 01:00:42,360
four adults get their hands on the glass. Then they

919
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:46,519
start asking it questions led by my mother. I look

920
01:00:46,559 --> 01:00:51,199
back on it now and you just think, what on

921
01:00:51,519 --> 01:00:57,559
earth were you thinking subjecting a little child to a

922
01:00:57,599 --> 01:01:00,159
wiji aboard? And I think, if that gives you any eye,

923
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:02,760
what kind of person that she was probably still is.

924
01:01:03,119 --> 01:01:05,440
It's why I have nothing to do with her anymore

925
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:09,320
in my life, because that's a really frightening, terrifying thing,

926
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:11,920
and to do without any consideration of a kid, It's like, yeah,

927
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:15,280
you've got to have some screws loose in there somewhere.

928
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,679
So anyway, this is when I first became aware of

929
01:01:19,679 --> 01:01:24,159
my ability to sense things because as they're doing this

930
01:01:24,199 --> 01:01:26,400
weage board, I'm sitting there in kind of, you know,

931
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,599
not abject terror, but I'm pretty scared, and I kind

932
01:01:30,599 --> 01:01:32,280
of closed my eyes and I'm wanting it to be

933
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:36,320
over well, as I what was really scaring me was

934
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:38,960
the fact that as they're doing the wage board and

935
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:46,039
it's Halloween night, I can feel this horde, this sea

936
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:54,119
of entities, discorporate spirits, all kind of horrible things, ghosts,

937
01:01:54,199 --> 01:02:00,320
whatever you want to call them, astrol entities literally being

938
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:06,280
drawn like moths to a flame, to this wigiaboard. And

939
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:10,559
it terrified me because I could feel them all around,

940
01:02:11,119 --> 01:02:17,000
coming closer and gathering around this wigia board going on.

941
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:23,360
So as it progress, and I'm getting more and more

942
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:26,320
kind of like looking, you know, either way around me thinking, oh,

943
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,159
they're coming through the windows, coming through the doors. We

944
01:02:29,239 --> 01:02:32,639
are literally surrounded by a sea of them. They're all

945
01:02:32,719 --> 01:02:36,599
they're watching being drawn to it and anyway, so they're

946
01:02:36,599 --> 01:02:41,079
going anyway this So the glass began to spin around

947
01:02:41,079 --> 01:02:48,960
the table like and it gets heavier and heavier to

948
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:52,880
the point where it's starting to go. It's actually been

949
01:02:53,159 --> 01:02:57,159
beginning to scratch the varnish on the surface of this table,

950
01:02:57,679 --> 01:03:00,960
and all four of these adults are lurching things going around,

951
01:03:01,039 --> 01:03:03,920
and it got it grew to this literally this crescendo,

952
01:03:05,119 --> 01:03:07,719
and I couldn't bear it any longer, and in my

953
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:14,960
mind I just yelled stop. And this glass it was

954
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:19,920
like somebody had smacked it with a fist. It literally

955
01:03:20,519 --> 01:03:23,079
stopped like it had been bolted to the table, their

956
01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:28,000
hands all flung off it, and then it kind of

957
01:03:28,039 --> 01:03:38,079
like the energy bursts and my little mind just went, oh,

958
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:47,079
I can change it, I can affect it. So it's

959
01:03:47,119 --> 01:03:52,079
a very strange but very kind of adult comprehension of

960
01:03:52,119 --> 01:03:54,880
something for a seven year old, so particilarly on that

961
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,039
kind of level, and it seemed to disperse all of

962
01:03:58,079 --> 01:04:02,960
the entities. It seemed to shift the whole thing. But

963
01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:05,239
I think it shocked they didn't try and attempt to

964
01:04:05,239 --> 01:04:07,880
do it again. That was it that they were like, aha, yeah, okay,

965
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:09,440
you know, well that was a bit scary, wasn't it.

966
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:17,480
Let's put it all away. So yeah, a very very strange,

967
01:04:18,039 --> 01:04:25,039
strange experience. So from there on end, I would go

968
01:04:25,079 --> 01:04:28,440
and see my dad every sort of three weeks to

969
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,639
a month. Back in their six dad was really into

970
01:04:31,639 --> 01:04:33,800
his movies. He was one of those people at Love's Gadgets,

971
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:37,119
so he had the first kind of VCR and we

972
01:04:37,199 --> 01:04:40,239
used to go to the video shop. Now, American Werewolf

973
01:04:40,239 --> 01:04:45,039
in London came out in nineteen eighty one. Sorry, I

974
01:04:45,039 --> 01:04:48,920
remember watching that age eleven. I still think it's an

975
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:53,719
amazing film, pretty terrifying. Yeah, never want to catch myself

976
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,360
on the moors at night. Although I went on to

977
01:04:56,400 --> 01:05:00,400
do that in adult life now I wouldn't do it.

978
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:05,800
But also at that time, my dad's half sister, my

979
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:09,039
aunt Denise, had married a tech sergeant in the USAF

980
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:12,039
and so she got back in touch with my mum.

981
01:05:12,079 --> 01:05:15,679
They were always quite good mates, and turns out they

982
01:05:15,679 --> 01:05:20,559
were living in Suffolk on Woodbridge Air Base, which is

983
01:05:20,559 --> 01:05:23,320
in Randalsham Forest, as people might know who are into

984
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,760
that subject. So there's a whole other experience that I

985
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:30,760
had around Randalsham Forest in nineteen eighty one. But in

986
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:34,920
nineteen eighty two, so I met my American cousins Eric

987
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:37,599
and Tom and her husband Dean, and I got to

988
01:05:37,599 --> 01:05:42,199
tour the Woodbridge base as it was a USAF base

989
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:45,320
with the A Tens station there, and went to the

990
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:47,760
open days and you got to do trick or treat

991
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:49,639
for the first time in my life in nineteen eighty

992
01:05:49,679 --> 01:05:55,119
one for Halloween. The following year we ended up traveling.

993
01:05:55,159 --> 01:06:00,239
My stepdad worked for an American company CICAA. I think

994
01:06:00,239 --> 01:06:04,639
they combined insurance of something of America. But they had

995
01:06:04,679 --> 01:06:07,239
a big event on and everyone was invited over. We

996
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:12,039
ended up going to Florida, traveling around, and then Denise

997
01:06:12,079 --> 01:06:16,119
and Dean had moved back to Edwards's Air Force Space,

998
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:19,360
so they'd arrange for us to go over and say

999
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:21,480
the second part of the holiday. My little brother, a

1000
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:25,119
half brother, had been born in nineteen eighty one. He

1001
01:06:25,199 --> 01:06:28,159
stayed with my nan and so it was myself, my mum,

1002
01:06:28,239 --> 01:06:30,800
and my stepdad that traveled out there because he was

1003
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:32,599
only a baby in arms, he was too young to

1004
01:06:32,679 --> 01:06:37,000
kind of travel. So yeah, I had a very interesting

1005
01:06:37,039 --> 01:06:41,760
experience over in Edward's Air Force Space and traveling around

1006
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,679
all of the sites there in the Harvey Desert, going

1007
01:06:44,679 --> 01:06:50,159
off into Nevada, and so yeah, there's missing time from

1008
01:06:50,639 --> 01:06:53,840
somewhere in the middle of Nevada that's never quite ever

1009
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:57,199
been recovered no matter what I've done, but who knows.

1010
01:06:57,679 --> 01:07:00,159
But what I remember seeing out there was the first

1011
01:07:00,199 --> 01:07:04,920
time I watched the howling, and how terrifying that was

1012
01:07:07,119 --> 01:07:10,679
always and the enduring memory of the scene where the

1013
01:07:10,719 --> 01:07:13,400
person tries to hide in the woodpile and the werewolf's

1014
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:15,559
arm kind of comes after them. I can still see

1015
01:07:15,559 --> 01:07:19,920
it now vividly in my mind. So yeah, coming back

1016
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:24,360
into the UK, and there's been some sort of interesting experiences.

1017
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:26,360
I've gone and joined the air Cadets. I've met my

1018
01:07:26,679 --> 01:07:29,360
lifelong friends Rich and Lance, the twins that I've known

1019
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:33,519
for years. You know, we sort of get to hang out.

1020
01:07:33,559 --> 01:07:39,280
And then there was an encounter one night in probably

1021
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:44,480
nineteen eighty four to eighty five. School disco, well not

1022
01:07:44,519 --> 01:07:47,119
school disco now is disco a young person's disco, like

1023
01:07:47,159 --> 01:07:50,039
a youth you know, disco organized in a town. It's

1024
01:07:50,079 --> 01:07:52,159
probably about ten miles away from the little village that

1025
01:07:52,159 --> 01:07:58,360
I ended up living in, and I got let down

1026
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:00,400
by my lift, but a couple of the ads that

1027
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:03,039
I knew said, oh, don't worry, you can get a

1028
01:08:03,079 --> 01:08:05,000
lift back with us. And they were in a So

1029
01:08:05,079 --> 01:08:06,920
the small village that I lived in was a village

1030
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:11,639
called a Little wolding Field, and there was a neighboring

1031
01:08:11,679 --> 01:08:15,239
village called Great wolding Field, which had its church nearly

1032
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:19,119
in the boundaries of a Little wolding Field. The town

1033
01:08:19,159 --> 01:08:21,479
that the guys were going to was a place called Labanon.

1034
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:25,720
It's a really really old town in Suffolk. So they said, well,

1035
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:27,960
we'll drop you off on the way, and I thought, great,

1036
01:08:28,319 --> 01:08:31,159
you know, I'm going to walk back. It's full moon

1037
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:35,039
and I've kind of you know, got my dancing shoes on.

1038
01:08:35,159 --> 01:08:37,640
It's sixty eighties were all into you know, the baggy

1039
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:43,560
chinos and the kind of pastoral colored shirts. And so anyway,

1040
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:45,840
there's two ways to get to Labanon. You can kind

1041
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:47,479
of follow the main main road or you could go

1042
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:49,720
through the little woldingfield. So the taxi they were in

1043
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:52,840
drives up and then says, oh, yeah, well, okay, we'll

1044
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:57,119
drop you here now. And I was like, oh, you're

1045
01:08:57,119 --> 01:08:59,239
not going through my village and they were like no, no,

1046
01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:04,520
We're we're going straight up here. And it suddenly maybe

1047
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:08,920
go oh no, because it's about a mile and a

1048
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:14,960
half back to the village from that junction. So picture it.

1049
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:21,359
It's like the archetypal horror film setting. You step out

1050
01:09:21,399 --> 01:09:23,680
of the taxi, your friends like buy zoom, off they

1051
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:28,720
go the roads in front of you. Now, Suffolk is

1052
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:34,119
quite flat. Generally it's all corn fields. Yeah, so it's

1053
01:09:34,159 --> 01:09:37,720
great full Moon over to my right. Across the fields

1054
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:42,920
there is the medieval church of Great wilding Field, and

1055
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:45,680
there is a good mile and a half of road

1056
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:54,920
between where I've stood and my house. So I start

1057
01:09:55,039 --> 01:09:57,760
kind of, you know, okay, off we're going. Let's just

1058
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:01,680
get this done. Start walking, Probably about a couple of

1059
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:03,840
hundred yards on the left, there was a house of

1060
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:07,520
a guy I knew from years. I always with one

1061
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:11,479
of my younger friends, and he lived there with his mom.

1062
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:14,079
Maybything was quite dark, so I walked past that house

1063
01:10:14,119 --> 01:10:16,239
is set off the road, and there was always this

1064
01:10:16,239 --> 01:10:19,960
little piece as the road went ahead, it went up

1065
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,279
a little bank, like a little rise, not very much,

1066
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,800
bent round, and then kind of went straight again either side.

1067
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:28,960
Now it was I think it was like a culvert

1068
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:32,039
over what would have been a brook, a little stream

1069
01:10:32,079 --> 01:10:34,920
of some kind. But it had really dense and always

1070
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:38,560
had had dense, really dense kind of hawthorn, thickets and

1071
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:40,840
trees all around it. It was always a patch of

1072
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:46,359
ground I never liked crossing, and I was always wary

1073
01:10:46,399 --> 01:10:50,560
of it. So obviously that's the kind of in my

1074
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:52,319
mind that, oh, I've got to go past that piece

1075
01:10:52,359 --> 01:10:56,520
of ground. Anyway, as I'm walking on the last bit

1076
01:10:56,560 --> 01:11:02,920
of road that's bordered by the cornfields, I'm looking across

1077
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:08,960
to the old church across this cornfields as like a heads,

1078
01:11:09,199 --> 01:11:12,399
like a little bank, then like a cornfield, and the

1079
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:17,319
dividing hedgerow in that field, there was a very small

1080
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:20,840
tree and it had a kind of interesting sort of

1081
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:23,239
little dome shape. I think it might have been a

1082
01:11:23,279 --> 01:11:26,640
young oak tree or something like that, but it was no, No,

1083
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:29,840
it was probably less than ten feet tall, wasn't very big,

1084
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,119
and for some reason I just got fixated on it,

1085
01:11:34,199 --> 01:11:37,399
and I remember looking across at it, and I'm like, well,

1086
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:43,439
I'm staring at this tree. And as I looked at it,

1087
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:49,479
it was suddenly violently shaken, like somebody had got hold

1088
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:55,079
of it and just gone and shook it. Saw the

1089
01:11:55,199 --> 01:11:59,000
leaves are rustling, and it's shaken like mad. Now it's

1090
01:11:59,039 --> 01:12:03,720
a big enough tree that you'd have had to have

1091
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:07,760
been a pretty strong guy to shake it like that.

1092
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:14,920
And there was no animal that's going to be shaking

1093
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:19,199
a tree of that size so hard. There's nothing out there.

1094
01:12:19,239 --> 01:12:22,239
I can't understand why there would be anybody out there

1095
01:12:22,399 --> 01:12:26,000
anyway that was waiting for me to walk past, and

1096
01:12:26,079 --> 01:12:28,640
then you know, saw me across the field and decided

1097
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:34,239
to shake it just to terrorize me. So I never

1098
01:12:34,319 --> 01:12:37,600
saw what did that, and I can tell you now

1099
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:40,520
that I didn't hang around to find out what did that.

1100
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:45,159
I ran for my life as fast as I could

1101
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:47,880
up the road past all the dark thicket, up the

1102
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,359
little hill and I'm on the kind of like flat

1103
01:12:50,399 --> 01:12:54,039
straight where there's a bit of a you know, a footpath.

1104
01:12:54,079 --> 01:12:58,880
So I'm running along the footpath and it's open Cornfield's

1105
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:02,880
probably a good three quarters a half a mile of

1106
01:13:03,119 --> 01:13:06,720
open ground where you've got no cover and no protection whatsoever,

1107
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,600
no houses. So I could see the village ahead of me,

1108
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:13,960
and it was literally like, you know, full tilt, head back,

1109
01:13:14,239 --> 01:13:17,680
arms pumping by my sides, heart bursting out of my

1110
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:19,479
chest because I'm thinking, any minute now, it's going to

1111
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:20,800
get me. Any minute now, it's going to get me.

1112
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:24,079
And I ran and ran and ran, and obviously I'm

1113
01:13:24,119 --> 01:13:29,359
in slippy going out shoes. Saw these things are racing

1114
01:13:29,399 --> 01:13:32,279
through my mind and I could just feel that it

1115
01:13:32,359 --> 01:13:38,119
was flanking me on the right behind me, but nothing

1116
01:13:38,159 --> 01:13:42,000
got me. I you know, ran and jumped over the

1117
01:13:42,039 --> 01:13:44,680
little garden fence, ran and literally done panicking trying to

1118
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:52,039
get in the house. And yeah, so you know, then

1119
01:13:52,079 --> 01:13:56,720
I get shouted out for waking everybody up. But I

1120
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:58,520
never told them what went on because at that point

1121
01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:01,439
the relationship with my mum and stepdad had really sort

1122
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:04,319
of broken down. So it was like everything I did

1123
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:06,520
was wrong, Everything I did was bad, my fault, So

1124
01:14:07,239 --> 01:14:12,720
you know, what's the point. But yeah, So within a

1125
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:16,079
year they'd moved. My stepfather got a promotion. They'd moved

1126
01:14:16,159 --> 01:14:21,840
up to bought a house in Shropshire, and he'd got

1127
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:24,319
a promotion to the head officing crew for this company.

1128
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:28,199
I stayed down with my nan and granddad. I had

1129
01:14:28,199 --> 01:14:31,960
all my friends there. I was an air cadet in

1130
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:35,720
the local acadet branch. We were doing survival courses. You know,

1131
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:38,359
you were sort of like starting to have the first girlfriends.

1132
01:14:38,359 --> 01:14:40,840
I was playing rugby for the rugby team, so my

1133
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:43,840
whole life was there, and because of the relationship being

1134
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:48,760
so toxic on the parents' side, it was I didn't

1135
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:50,880
want to move to Shropshire and I never wanted to go there.

1136
01:14:51,359 --> 01:14:54,680
I tried and tried to stay with my friends, with

1137
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:57,800
Menan and Grande, but in the end, you know, I'm

1138
01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:01,359
sixteen seventeen, You've got no you're not an adult yet,

1139
01:15:01,359 --> 01:15:04,239
and things are very different back in those days like

1140
01:15:04,279 --> 01:15:07,600
it is now, with all the safeguarding laws that we

1141
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:13,000
really have and we really need. I just wanted to

1142
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:14,960
be away from the abuse, but I couldn't escape it,

1143
01:15:15,039 --> 01:15:17,319
so in the end I was kind of forced to

1144
01:15:17,319 --> 01:15:19,640
finish my exams and was kind of forced to move

1145
01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:26,319
up there. So it would have been nineteen eighty seven,

1146
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:32,520
summer of nineteen eighty seven, and this house was set

1147
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:36,159
off a main road. It was in an area of woodland.

1148
01:15:36,159 --> 01:15:38,720
It was just in a kind of patch of ground,

1149
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:41,960
like a bit of a field that was outside the woodland,

1150
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:44,439
but still next to a big main road which is

1151
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:47,760
now a very busy road. And it was close to

1152
01:15:48,159 --> 01:15:51,439
a town in Shropshire called Witchurch, and this place was

1153
01:15:51,479 --> 01:15:54,359
called Higher Heath. In between Witchurch and Higher Heath there

1154
01:15:54,399 --> 01:15:58,000
was an old air base, a World War two air

1155
01:15:58,039 --> 01:16:02,359
base that was disused, but you could still see the

1156
01:16:02,359 --> 01:16:06,479
remnants of the old buildings throughout the woods. So as

1157
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:07,920
you came to the property, if you came up the

1158
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:12,079
main road, if you were traveling north to wards, which

1159
01:16:12,119 --> 01:16:15,800
you would come to this turn off, you would go

1160
01:16:16,039 --> 01:16:19,039
right into a kind of cinder track into the woods.

1161
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:23,479
Immediately on the left there was an old grain dryer,

1162
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:26,680
this big, kind of stark, ominous looking building, but it

1163
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:30,800
was disused, a big, old sort of black looking building

1164
01:16:32,359 --> 01:16:37,199
park brick part corrugated iron, I think, and then you'd

1165
01:16:37,279 --> 01:16:42,720
kind of go no more than probably fifty sixty yards

1166
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:47,279
maximum one hundred yards, So where the cinder track went

1167
01:16:47,319 --> 01:16:50,600
there would be a line of woodland, and then our

1168
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:53,039
property would be running along behind that line of only

1169
01:16:53,039 --> 01:16:56,039
a strip of woods, probably no more than sort of

1170
01:16:56,119 --> 01:16:58,079
thirty feet wide in a strip, but obviously all the

1171
01:16:58,079 --> 01:16:59,760
woods would be to your left hand side, and then

1172
01:17:00,039 --> 01:17:02,840
you got four of the woods went off over a

1173
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:05,680
fence and a gate into the main woodland. So you

1174
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:07,920
used to have to literally come up the cinder track

1175
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:10,119
double back to get into the house through the gates

1176
01:17:10,119 --> 01:17:13,199
that we ended up putting on there. So I ended

1177
01:17:13,279 --> 01:17:17,359
up going to college, you know, big town in Shropshire

1178
01:17:17,359 --> 01:17:20,520
called Shrewsbury. I used to come back quite late at night.

1179
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:25,399
So coming back one sort of November night, get off

1180
01:17:25,399 --> 01:17:29,760
the little bus across the road, have to cross the

1181
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:34,119
main road, comes down on the cinder track. Some I

1182
01:17:34,279 --> 01:17:38,199
seventeen at the time, you know, pretty fit, pretty strong,

1183
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:45,600
pretty cocky, coming to the woodland, and I heard things

1184
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:47,960
running off into the undergrowth as I come down the

1185
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:51,520
cinder track, mainly to my left, and I thought, oh, yeah,

1186
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:55,600
use your thing. You know, rabbits whatever. Carried on walking

1187
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:59,439
down a little bit further, and then I heard something heavier,

1188
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:02,159
and I thought, no, it's not a rabbit. It must

1189
01:18:02,239 --> 01:18:06,720
be a someone's dog or something. Anyway, still pretty nonchal

1190
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:14,520
and not really bothered, walked a little bit further, and

1191
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:19,520
as I'm coming towards the grain dryer and sort of

1192
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:24,600
around probably the midway through in the grain dryer where

1193
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:29,560
it sat, I kind of just got compelled to turn

1194
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:31,680
around because I could hear some noise. I thought, what

1195
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:35,199
is that? So I'm looking back and you can kind

1196
01:18:35,199 --> 01:18:38,079
of vaguely see in the darkness. You can see, you know,

1197
01:18:38,159 --> 01:18:40,000
the two bits of woodland where it ends, and there's

1198
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:41,760
the main road, there's the entrance to the cinder track

1199
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:46,800
off the main road. There's other houses there, and see

1200
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:49,760
my right where the patch of woodland that runs along

1201
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:52,840
the side of the road is just past the edge

1202
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:57,560
of the grain dryer. I'm just sensing something. So I'm

1203
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:03,319
really staring this place in the woods, thinking what is

1204
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:07,319
what is it? I thought I'll just wait and see,

1205
01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:17,359
and then I got this overwhelming feeling of dread. And

1206
01:19:17,399 --> 01:19:21,359
the more that I looked, I could see there was something,

1207
01:19:21,359 --> 01:19:24,439
but it was almost like a shadow that just absorbed

1208
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:29,000
the light. It was darker than dark, like it was

1209
01:19:29,039 --> 01:19:33,239
a hole in space kind of thing. I was like, what, yeah,

1210
01:19:33,279 --> 01:19:37,199
I'm seeing things and it's pitch black anyway. But and

1211
01:19:37,239 --> 01:19:42,640
then this this damn thing stepped towards me, or it

1212
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:47,359
stepped towards the path, I should say, so it moved

1213
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:49,680
so that I could see it, and it did this

1214
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:54,640
on purpose. And what it revealed was a humanoid shape,

1215
01:19:55,560 --> 01:20:00,319
absolutely pitch black, like a void. It was about six

1216
01:20:00,359 --> 01:20:01,920
and a half to seven feet tall, but it was

1217
01:20:02,039 --> 01:20:05,359
clearly human shaped. But when it had stepped, it broke

1218
01:20:05,399 --> 01:20:10,079
a twig. Now this is where we get this crossover

1219
01:20:10,119 --> 01:20:13,760
into the weirdness of well are these things supernatural? Are

1220
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:18,960
they physical? Are they physically present, or are they cloaked?

1221
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:24,640
Well that was it for me. It filled me with

1222
01:20:25,039 --> 01:20:33,079
primal terror, terror that I have never felt anywhere before

1223
01:20:33,159 --> 01:20:39,920
or since. It really was the most terrifying thing beyond

1224
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:44,039
what it represented. Just the emanation of this thing was

1225
01:20:44,399 --> 01:20:50,319
absolute terror, and I just I was frozen initially, and

1226
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:55,520
I literally spun and I ran from my life straight

1227
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:59,159
up the cinder track double back, literally hurdled the gates,

1228
01:21:00,079 --> 01:21:02,479
ran straight to the house, got into the utility door,

1229
01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:07,840
let the dogs out. The dogs went berserk, barking, howling, yapping.

1230
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:11,079
They tore off towards the woods up to the end gate,

1231
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:19,239
and I just stood there, shaking. And I still, no

1232
01:21:19,279 --> 01:21:22,800
matter where I've been across ancient sites, in different places

1233
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:25,279
in the world, up the hills, up the hills at night,

1234
01:21:25,319 --> 01:21:27,920
in the full moon, in the woods at night, by myself,

1235
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:33,000
never felt terror like this thing emanated or invoked in me,

1236
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:36,800
or evoked in me, which we want to call it.

1237
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,760
It made me, you know, That's what I felt. So

1238
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:47,439
this thing carried on for years. It never really showed

1239
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:51,680
itself again physically, not to me. It did show itself

1240
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:57,840
to my brother in dreams before it finally we feel

1241
01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:01,439
it finally breached the house. And but that's long after

1242
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:04,800
I'd left. But you could go out there in daylight,

1243
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:08,039
go out through the gates and face towards this old

1244
01:22:08,039 --> 01:22:09,600
bit of woods where the grain dry was se You're

1245
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:11,359
looking roughly towards where the main road is and the

1246
01:22:11,359 --> 01:22:13,199
main body of the old woods, so the big old

1247
01:22:13,199 --> 01:22:21,279
woods is behind you. And even in the daylight, there

1248
01:22:21,279 --> 01:22:24,680
was some presence that if you went there with the

1249
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:28,520
intention that you were going to face it down. You

1250
01:22:28,640 --> 01:22:31,560
just felt like you were being watched. And this is

1251
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:36,279
where for me, what so many of the experiences describe

1252
01:22:36,319 --> 01:22:39,640
who've had cryptid encounters, particularly with sasquatch or dog men,

1253
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:42,039
that feeling of being watched. And I thought, and that's

1254
01:22:42,039 --> 01:22:45,199
why the story to me was so compelling, because when

1255
01:22:45,199 --> 01:22:47,520
I started listening to those encounters over the last kind

1256
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:51,159
of ten years, it made me go, oh, whoa, that's

1257
01:22:51,199 --> 01:22:53,199
what I used to feel. But I felt it. I mean,

1258
01:22:53,239 --> 01:22:55,680
I lived there off and on the air for like

1259
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:59,640
nine years, and this thing never diminished. It was there,

1260
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,039
but no matter. You know, I really got into my

1261
01:23:02,079 --> 01:23:05,640
spiritual path in my sort of twenties, and even then

1262
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:08,680
I could never quite pinned out what that thing was,

1263
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:12,880
nor could I ever face it down. Because no matter

1264
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:16,439
how bold and brassy I felt, I've been out there

1265
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:19,000
in daylight, I've been out there at night and just

1266
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:21,560
decided I was going to kind of challenge it. That

1267
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:24,199
thing always got me to back down. It will get

1268
01:23:24,239 --> 01:23:28,079
to a point where it was so malevolent feeling. It

1269
01:23:28,159 --> 01:23:31,640
was like, no, okay, I'm going, yeah, fair enough, I'm going.

1270
01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:37,039
But to give you an example of it, my little

1271
01:23:37,079 --> 01:23:40,640
brother and myself. We were into like miniatures, war games

1272
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:43,000
like D and D and Warhammer and everything and WESA.

1273
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:45,840
So there's eleven years between us, and you know, I

1274
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:47,560
was kind of my brother was still really young and

1275
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:51,479
I was at that point sort of in my early twenties,

1276
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:53,039
and we used to just go and hang out in

1277
01:23:53,119 --> 01:23:55,680
the workshop that was ended up being built behind the

1278
01:23:56,840 --> 01:24:00,319
garage on the property, but it was built right up

1279
01:24:00,319 --> 01:24:02,640
against the fence that was the perimitive line of that

1280
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:07,600
little strip of woods, roughly opposite the grain dryer on

1281
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:10,960
the other side of the cinder track. So we'd be

1282
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:15,119
hanging out in the workshop chatting, you know, laughing, painting

1283
01:24:15,119 --> 01:24:21,399
our miniatures, just chilling like like brothers do, and you

1284
01:24:21,399 --> 01:24:29,119
would just feel that silence fall, that change in the ether,

1285
01:24:30,439 --> 01:24:33,560
and we both look at each other and go, oh,

1286
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:37,520
it's here, And you could feel this thin come up

1287
01:24:37,560 --> 01:24:41,520
to the fence. It was there, you could feel it.

1288
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:47,760
You know. It was a big and forceful thing. It

1289
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:51,520
was not nothing. It carried and the most immense presence

1290
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:57,039
with it. And then we'd be like, Okay, put the

1291
01:24:57,039 --> 01:24:58,920
paint brushes down, it's time to get in the house.

1292
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:00,520
And then of course you'd have to kind of come

1293
01:25:00,520 --> 01:25:02,079
out of the workshop, but there was a little kind

1294
01:25:02,079 --> 01:25:04,760
of ginnel where you'd like where the garage was a

1295
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:09,560
little wood store, and it would take you to such

1296
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:13,119
a close proximity to the fence. You were within what

1297
01:25:13,159 --> 01:25:16,000
you'd imagine to be like an arm's reach of this thing.

1298
01:25:16,279 --> 01:25:17,720
So we used to kind of like get there and

1299
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:20,520
run through this bit and kind of get through the

1300
01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:25,239
gate get into the house because we could. So, yeah,

1301
01:25:25,279 --> 01:25:27,680
we never used to go out and linger anywhere near

1302
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:29,520
that thing at night. It was like, nah, you just

1303
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:33,920
don't do that. So it went on that way for

1304
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:36,439
a number of years. I ended up, like I say,

1305
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:44,279
moving on leaving out, and after I'd left and took

1306
01:25:44,279 --> 01:25:47,680
all my stuff with me, it took my little brother

1307
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:49,520
a while before he told me the story of this,

1308
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:54,560
but he started having My stepdad had moved out by

1309
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:55,920
this time, so it was just my mum and the

1310
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:58,479
dogs and my little brother in the house at the time,

1311
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:02,319
and he'd ended up moving into my stepfather's room at

1312
01:26:02,319 --> 01:26:03,760
the the kind of end of a corridor in the

1313
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:08,000
house and the upstairs on the side of the woods

1314
01:26:08,439 --> 01:26:11,359
overlooking the drive, and on the drive, there were three

1315
01:26:11,359 --> 01:26:13,880
security lights, one up the gate one halfway down on

1316
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:19,079
one by the garage, and he said they'd had a

1317
01:26:19,079 --> 01:26:25,680
few nights where it had something had set off the

1318
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:31,319
security lights one after the other gate halfway down the drive.

1319
01:26:31,479 --> 01:26:33,520
It's a gravel drive, so anybody that was walking down it,

1320
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:37,560
you'd heard a person walking down it light scoff by

1321
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:41,439
the garage. It happened a couple of times, and then

1322
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:44,359
he'd actually, I remember now it actually he said it'd

1323
01:26:44,439 --> 01:26:49,479
set the car alarm off on my mum's car. But

1324
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:51,960
they'd gone out looking and there was let the dogs out.

1325
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:56,840
There was no one there, so it seemed it ramped

1326
01:26:56,840 --> 01:26:59,039
it up. Now, my brother said, I started getting this

1327
01:26:59,119 --> 01:27:05,359
recurring dream and in this stream, I'm running through the house.

1328
01:27:05,399 --> 01:27:09,199
I'm locking all of the patio doors, the French windows,

1329
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:11,520
the doors. We had a big conservatory in the end

1330
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:13,079
down the side of the house that faced out to

1331
01:27:13,159 --> 01:27:19,840
the wood Center utility. And he said that he had

1332
01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:21,760
this stream. He used to run around shut the door

1333
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:23,640
because he felt this thing was trying to get in.

1334
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:25,520
Never saw it, just had the idea that something was

1335
01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:28,119
trying to get in the house, and he had to

1336
01:27:28,159 --> 01:27:32,119
shut all the windows and doors and lock them and

1337
01:27:32,159 --> 01:27:35,920
he said. Then the last night that this happened to him,

1338
01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:39,279
he was in bed with his girlfriend. He was streaming

1339
01:27:39,279 --> 01:27:42,479
the stream and he said, and I was running around,

1340
01:27:42,479 --> 01:27:44,279
locking all the doors like I did in sequence. And

1341
01:27:44,319 --> 01:27:46,520
I got to the utility door. I came out of

1342
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:52,039
the utility door, and I was too slow, and as

1343
01:27:52,079 --> 01:27:54,720
I ran down to the main part of the conservatory,

1344
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:57,239
down on the sort of like little glass corriedor bit,

1345
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:04,680
it came through the doors. And he said, it's exactly

1346
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:10,560
like you described it, Nathan. It's this large, dark humanoid

1347
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:16,520
form came through the doors, emanating this not necessarily evil,

1348
01:28:16,560 --> 01:28:21,960
but just this malevolent, powerful, ancient presence. And he said,

1349
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:23,600
you know, you see in the films where the person

1350
01:28:24,600 --> 01:28:26,600
is running, they see this thing, they can't stop and

1351
01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:29,439
they slip over on the floor, kind of slide towards it,

1352
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:31,640
and their legs are back pedaling, he said, And you know,

1353
01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:33,960
I'm trying to get away from it as it's come

1354
01:28:34,079 --> 01:28:37,800
through the door, and it's massive. It's about seven feet tall.

1355
01:28:38,079 --> 01:28:40,720
It's kind of duck through the door, stood up. It's

1356
01:28:41,000 --> 01:28:44,239
huge and menacing. He says, I'm back pedaling and as

1357
01:28:44,279 --> 01:28:46,399
it comes towards me, So I managed to get up

1358
01:28:46,439 --> 01:28:48,840
and run, like, get back to the utility door. Lock

1359
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:52,119
it shut it, put the bolt on, he said. Anyway,

1360
01:28:53,239 --> 01:28:56,840
then I woke up in bed sweating, and he said,

1361
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:03,520
and then I heard the stairs creak, and this corridor

1362
01:29:03,560 --> 01:29:06,359
that ran down to the end where that bedroom was.

1363
01:29:07,399 --> 01:29:09,399
It had this, you know, that kind of chipboard flooring,

1364
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:11,720
and it was not a very well built house. It

1365
01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:13,840
used to creak quite a lot with If you couldn't

1366
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:16,000
walk on that floor without anyone hearing, you know, you

1367
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:20,279
wake up the whole house. And he said, we heard it.

1368
01:29:20,319 --> 01:29:23,199
I woke my girlfriend up and we heard it come

1369
01:29:23,319 --> 01:29:28,760
down the corridor, and he said, we could feel its

1370
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:35,800
presence outside the bedroom door, almost like it was breathing darkness,

1371
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:38,279
Like it was like, you know, something breezy expanded its

1372
01:29:38,319 --> 01:29:44,479
aura through the walls. And so he I, when I'd left,

1373
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:49,680
I'd left this really interesting sort of African curved like

1374
01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:54,119
cleaver simitter thing as a protection thing for him. It

1375
01:29:54,159 --> 01:29:56,359
wasn't like a live blade shop sword. It was like

1376
01:29:56,359 --> 01:29:58,199
a just like an ornament. But I always felt it

1377
01:29:58,199 --> 01:30:02,159
had some sort of sort of talismanic protection element to it.

1378
01:30:02,279 --> 01:30:07,039
So he grabbed that and he said to his golfing

1379
01:30:07,119 --> 01:30:10,760
on the counter. Three, I'm going to open the door

1380
01:30:11,239 --> 01:30:13,520
and whatever's out there is going to get swung. This

1381
01:30:14,159 --> 01:30:17,199
sword's going to hit it. He's like, I'm you know,

1382
01:30:17,279 --> 01:30:22,159
I'm absolutely terrified, and so he got her to literally

1383
01:30:22,239 --> 01:30:24,079
on the counter three, switch the light on. He opens

1384
01:30:24,119 --> 01:30:27,760
the door, takes a swipe at whatever would be out there,

1385
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:34,079
and he said there was absolutely nothing there. It completely vanished,

1386
01:30:37,159 --> 01:30:40,159
and that seemed to be the sort of culmination of

1387
01:30:40,199 --> 01:30:43,680
the experiences there for him. He ended up moving out

1388
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:49,720
going to university. So that is a Now some people

1389
01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:51,880
have seen these things and they think that these are

1390
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:54,039
what they call a woodwoes, and I disagree. I don't

1391
01:30:54,079 --> 01:30:56,520
think that is a woodwoes. I think that's something else

1392
01:30:57,880 --> 01:31:01,479
I have experienced, or what I think was a woodwoes encounter.

1393
01:31:02,119 --> 01:31:05,279
So in nineteen eighty seven, when myself and Richard Lance,

1394
01:31:05,279 --> 01:31:08,640
we'd all finished school before I sort of eventually went

1395
01:31:08,680 --> 01:31:11,560
back up to Shropshire, we had a holiday on a

1396
01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:15,960
piece of land, farmland owned by their relatives in South Wales.

1397
01:31:16,640 --> 01:31:21,079
So it's just three lads a tent in a little

1398
01:31:21,079 --> 01:31:22,920
bit of a field under an old oak tree by

1399
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:29,520
the woodlands. Absolute paradise, you know, proper boys own camping experience.

1400
01:31:30,359 --> 01:31:33,359
We were there for I think probably about ten days

1401
01:31:33,359 --> 01:31:38,039
something like that, really really nice summer weather. So where

1402
01:31:38,039 --> 01:31:40,640
we had the old sort of three four man tent,

1403
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:43,279
there was a great big oat tree. We built a

1404
01:31:43,319 --> 01:31:45,600
little fire, pips and rocks, and then the tent was

1405
01:31:45,680 --> 01:31:50,399
kind of on the opposite side of that, and we

1406
01:31:50,439 --> 01:31:54,239
had a lot of interesting experiences there. First time I'd

1407
01:31:54,279 --> 01:31:59,800
ever heard foxes calling in the wild, you know, rain,

1408
01:32:00,039 --> 01:32:04,399
so it's really eerie coming out of the woods. But anyway,

1409
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:07,520
one night, so we've had a great night, We've gone

1410
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:10,000
to bed, left the kind of campfire in front of

1411
01:32:10,039 --> 01:32:12,520
the tent. We're all sort of tired out. We retired,

1412
01:32:13,319 --> 01:32:18,640
gone to bed, laid down, and then I think we've

1413
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:20,239
all sort of drifted off a little bit. And then

1414
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:23,039
I think Lance was in the middle Riches on the

1415
01:32:23,039 --> 01:32:24,600
other side of all laying in the same direction, and

1416
01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:30,399
I'm pretty sure it's Lance nudged me and was just whispered,

1417
01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:34,560
you know, look out the tent, look at the end

1418
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:37,920
of the tent, and he's woken Richard up, and we've

1419
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:41,880
all gone really quiet, looked up and honestly, they're in

1420
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:47,399
front of the tent, crouched over our fire was a

1421
01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:51,640
human figure like if I could have described it to you,

1422
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:53,560
I would say it was like a proto human, like

1423
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:57,800
a like a caveman or something like that. Not very big,

1424
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:01,359
probably would have been about five and a half feet,

1425
01:33:01,399 --> 01:33:04,479
so probably, you know, no more difference than us in size.

1426
01:33:05,000 --> 01:33:09,199
And it was crouched over the fire, and we were

1427
01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:15,279
all like, what the bleep is that? Who's that? Who's outside?

1428
01:33:15,279 --> 01:33:18,000
We're in the middle of nowhere, who's outside the tent?

1429
01:33:18,359 --> 01:33:20,159
So anyway, it's like, right, we're going to get them.

1430
01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:22,840
So we had our like you know, army knives or

1431
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:25,119
survival knives, and so obviously it was me that was

1432
01:33:25,159 --> 01:33:28,119
chosen to be the bravest and boldest, and I got

1433
01:33:28,119 --> 01:33:31,560
pushed at the front of the tent and it was one.

1434
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:33,479
I was singing you on the counter three one two three,

1435
01:33:33,479 --> 01:33:35,439
We're gonna unzip the tent and I'm going to jump

1436
01:33:35,479 --> 01:33:38,239
this person because they're messing with us, you know, what

1437
01:33:38,239 --> 01:33:42,960
are they doing? So it was uh yeah, one, two, three,

1438
01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:46,760
zip and I kind of like lunge out of the

1439
01:33:46,880 --> 01:33:52,279
entrance to the tent and there is nothing there, nobody,

1440
01:33:52,359 --> 01:33:56,479
and there was nothing in between the fire and the tent,

1441
01:33:57,640 --> 01:33:59,359
and barely in mind, there's all three of us are

1442
01:33:59,359 --> 01:34:02,399
seen this thing. It's not just like one of us

1443
01:34:02,439 --> 01:34:04,239
and you know, the other two have gone, or maybe

1444
01:34:04,319 --> 01:34:08,880
it's like, no, we all saw what we saw. And

1445
01:34:08,920 --> 01:34:10,720
then so everyone's like looking at the tent. Now we're

1446
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:14,319
all going, well, what was that? Well, you know, that

1447
01:34:14,399 --> 01:34:17,119
was like that was a person and it was I

1448
01:34:17,159 --> 01:34:19,359
think Richard said, well, I think it might be a

1449
01:34:19,359 --> 01:34:22,920
woodwoes or you know, could it be what they called

1450
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:26,560
the oak man, the spirit of the oak tree or

1451
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:29,199
the things that live in the oak trees. These are

1452
01:34:29,199 --> 01:34:36,079
all things from legend. So anyway, we were just like, ah, no,

1453
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:40,640
what it was? So zip the tent back down, laid

1454
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:49,720
back down, and then about ten minutes later, I get

1455
01:34:49,760 --> 01:34:57,119
another nudge and this thing's back again, squatting down over

1456
01:34:57,159 --> 01:35:01,359
the fire. And then it was the case of well,

1457
01:35:02,680 --> 01:35:04,439
we don't really know what that is, but you know,

1458
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:08,720
let's just it's not doing us any harm. In fact,

1459
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:11,239
maybe it's watching over us. So I don't know, let's

1460
01:35:11,279 --> 01:35:16,680
just leave it be. But the thing that struck me

1461
01:35:16,720 --> 01:35:19,239
the other day when we were talking about, you know,

1462
01:35:19,439 --> 01:35:22,279
are these creatures supernatural? Are they physical? And people talk

1463
01:35:22,319 --> 01:35:26,720
about cloaking. People have seen sasquatch and dog men, both

1464
01:35:26,760 --> 01:35:32,840
cloak and uncloak, at least that's the reports. So in

1465
01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:38,159
my mind, I suddenly thought, well, why could we see

1466
01:35:38,199 --> 01:35:41,039
it as a shadow on the tent And there was

1467
01:35:41,119 --> 01:35:43,279
nothing in front of the fire that cast a shadow,

1468
01:35:43,279 --> 01:35:45,279
and it couldn't cast a shadow like a squatting human

1469
01:35:45,319 --> 01:35:52,760
being without being a squatting human being shape. So well,

1470
01:35:52,800 --> 01:35:55,600
I underzipped the tent and couldn't see it, and then

1471
01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:57,479
obviously we zipped the tent back up and it kind

1472
01:35:57,520 --> 01:36:02,520
of reappeared. What it made me think of is, oh, okay,

1473
01:36:02,680 --> 01:36:06,760
could it be that when these things cloak are saying

1474
01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:17,680
speech marks, do they bend light? But maybe they don't

1475
01:36:17,720 --> 01:36:20,399
block it? So this thing was maybe it was cloaked,

1476
01:36:21,479 --> 01:36:24,319
but the firelight, the actual light traveling from the fire,

1477
01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:29,319
still cast its silhouette onto the outside of our tent

1478
01:36:30,800 --> 01:36:34,479
because it was physical on some level. And so maybe

1479
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:37,079
when I went out to kind of like jump in

1480
01:36:37,119 --> 01:36:40,680
and see what it was, it was literally invisible to

1481
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:44,920
the naked eye. But that's why it kind of reappeared,

1482
01:36:44,920 --> 01:36:50,680
because it probably was physically solid, and although we perhaps

1483
01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:52,800
couldn't see it with our physical eyes because it was

1484
01:36:52,880 --> 01:36:57,640
cloaked or something like that. It still cast a shadow

1485
01:36:58,840 --> 01:37:06,079
because it was a solid creature of some kind. So

1486
01:37:06,600 --> 01:37:09,760
it is a very strange thing. And I'll say that

1487
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:12,399
the last experience that happened to me in recent years

1488
01:37:12,520 --> 01:37:14,760
was probably around twenty fifteen, around the time that I

1489
01:37:14,840 --> 01:37:18,680
began this journey of exploration. Now I've had a lot

1490
01:37:18,680 --> 01:37:23,399
of strange UFO stuff over the years and seen all

1491
01:37:23,479 --> 01:37:27,279
manner of things. But I was with Lance in his

1492
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:30,760
house in Suffolk, Libs saying, rural Suffolk outside berysin Evans,

1493
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:33,439
and it's not too far, probably about twenty five miles

1494
01:37:33,479 --> 01:37:36,399
from Arif Lake and Heath and Mildenhall, the big us

1495
01:37:36,399 --> 01:37:40,439
spaces where we had all this drone activity recently. But

1496
01:37:40,520 --> 01:37:43,000
this was around twenty fifteen. We were out in the

1497
01:37:43,000 --> 01:37:47,119
back garden and it was nighttime. We were just out chatting,

1498
01:37:47,199 --> 01:37:50,720
looking at the sky, looking at the stars, and away

1499
01:37:50,840 --> 01:37:57,560
to the west we saw some red lights like landing

1500
01:37:57,640 --> 01:38:01,119
lights on an aircraft. Why I used to live was

1501
01:38:01,159 --> 01:38:03,520
near a base called Arif Watersurement. Used to be a

1502
01:38:03,520 --> 01:38:08,119
fighter base in the eighties, but then it's become a

1503
01:38:08,159 --> 01:38:12,720
base for the Apache helicopters, and we see them quite

1504
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:17,359
a lot over that area, so we thought, oh, maybe

1505
01:38:17,399 --> 01:38:20,439
it's it's apaches on maneuver because these red lights in

1506
01:38:20,479 --> 01:38:22,960
the distance, which looked just like aircraft landing lights, were

1507
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:26,840
kind of going up and down, not very high, just

1508
01:38:26,880 --> 01:38:29,520
on the horizon, kind of up and down a little

1509
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:34,399
bit side to side, like a helicopter would probably maneuver

1510
01:38:34,520 --> 01:38:36,239
rather than a large jet. No, it's not far, like

1511
01:38:36,319 --> 01:38:38,439
I say, from the military bases, but also not far

1512
01:38:38,479 --> 01:38:44,119
from Stanstord, which is a large airport, so we didn't

1513
01:38:44,119 --> 01:38:46,239
think anything of it. And then about an hour later,

1514
01:38:47,239 --> 01:38:49,279
Lance said, oh, you know your going for a walk

1515
01:38:49,520 --> 01:38:51,359
up the road? Say yeah, okay, yeah, great, go and

1516
01:38:51,439 --> 01:38:54,960
take the air it's a nice night. So he came

1517
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:58,479
out of his little estate, turned left, walked out into

1518
01:38:58,479 --> 01:39:02,000
the countryside along the road, and then we took another left.

1519
01:39:02,079 --> 01:39:04,119
It's pitch black. I don't know the area at all,

1520
01:39:04,199 --> 01:39:07,920
so I couldn't tell where I was, but we were

1521
01:39:07,960 --> 01:39:11,279
heading down off the main road onto a side road

1522
01:39:11,359 --> 01:39:17,680
down into a field, and then we spotted this red light.

1523
01:39:18,359 --> 01:39:20,039
It was kind of red but then sort of amber

1524
01:39:20,920 --> 01:39:27,039
shifting in colors, and again it's relatively small. It's kind

1525
01:39:27,039 --> 01:39:32,720
of going up, traveling across, going up and down, vertically moving,

1526
01:39:33,720 --> 01:39:35,920
and we were like, what are we looking at? And

1527
01:39:35,920 --> 01:39:39,119
how far away is? That's weird? And then all of

1528
01:39:39,159 --> 01:39:44,159
a sudden it all became put into a sharp perspective

1529
01:39:44,199 --> 01:39:50,159
because a car appeared with its lights on, coming from

1530
01:39:50,239 --> 01:39:53,520
left to right, and we suddenly saw we were in

1531
01:39:54,479 --> 01:39:58,920
a large field, probably about two to three hundred yards

1532
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:04,920
away from the boundary, the hedge line boundary, which was

1533
01:40:04,960 --> 01:40:09,880
the boundary of the road, and in front of us

1534
01:40:09,920 --> 01:40:15,720
were two regularly spaced telegraph poles. When this car appeared,

1535
01:40:17,239 --> 01:40:22,000
this thing, this light ducked. It was up one of

1536
01:40:22,000 --> 01:40:25,399
the telegraph poles. It ducked down the telegraph pole. It

1537
01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:29,800
hid below the hedge line, so the car couldn't see it.

1538
01:40:30,479 --> 01:40:33,079
The car then passed and everything went back to being black,

1539
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:37,880
and this thing went up up the next telegraph pole,

1540
01:40:38,560 --> 01:40:45,119
and then we were like whoa. And then that became

1541
01:40:45,159 --> 01:40:48,039
a game changer. Then we sort of moved a little

1542
01:40:48,039 --> 01:40:51,840
bit closer. LANs was like, what is that and I

1543
01:40:51,880 --> 01:40:55,840
was like, I don't know, and so then he sort

1544
01:40:55,880 --> 01:40:58,239
of said, oh, should we go over Now By this

1545
01:40:58,279 --> 01:41:01,600
time it had changed so it had kind of come down,

1546
01:41:02,039 --> 01:41:05,199
it got across from left to right. It was probably

1547
01:41:05,279 --> 01:41:10,119
just to the right of the second telegraph pole. It

1548
01:41:10,239 --> 01:41:17,199
then changed from ready amber to a yellow white, and

1549
01:41:17,239 --> 01:41:20,600
as we began to focus on it, I can only

1550
01:41:20,640 --> 01:41:25,359
say that it became aware of us. But prior to that,

1551
01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:27,760
before we saw the car and worked out what it was,

1552
01:41:28,239 --> 01:41:33,239
this thing, which was clearly intelligent and sentient, was dancing

1553
01:41:33,439 --> 01:41:37,119
up and down the telegraph pole along the hedge, kind

1554
01:41:37,119 --> 01:41:45,279
of just playing and quite happily, quite innocently. But when

1555
01:41:45,319 --> 01:41:49,199
we became more intent on getting closer to it, and

1556
01:41:49,199 --> 01:41:55,359
it kind of must have sensed us, it grew in intensity,

1557
01:41:55,479 --> 01:41:59,399
like somebody was pointing a torch beam right at us.

1558
01:42:00,279 --> 01:42:01,800
So it went from being like a just a glowing

1559
01:42:01,840 --> 01:42:03,680
red orb to being something that was shining, and you know,

1560
01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:05,399
you get those kind of like rays of light that

1561
01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:09,199
radiate when something's pointing right at you. It did that.

1562
01:42:09,359 --> 01:42:11,880
Lance was like, oh, shoot, should we go over and

1563
01:42:12,439 --> 01:42:15,159
see it? And I was like, no, no, no, no,

1564
01:42:15,199 --> 01:42:19,840
we don't know what that is. Plus and then as

1565
01:42:19,840 --> 01:42:21,600
we were sort of thinking about that, there was a

1566
01:42:21,600 --> 01:42:25,000
little tiny strip of woods next to us in that

1567
01:42:25,159 --> 01:42:27,000
sort of poked out like a fingerwood, and that PopEd

1568
01:42:27,039 --> 01:42:30,359
out into that field on our right that we sort

1569
01:42:30,359 --> 01:42:31,880
of drew level with. As we kind of went a

1570
01:42:31,880 --> 01:42:36,239
little bit forward towards the orb and towards the hedgeline,

1571
01:42:37,399 --> 01:42:39,600
there was a massive snapping of a wood limb and

1572
01:42:39,640 --> 01:42:42,159
something thudded to the ground and I was like, ooh, key,

1573
01:42:43,399 --> 01:42:45,800
Lance back out, and he was like, well, us to

1574
01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:48,479
just back out. No, we don't know what this is.

1575
01:42:48,520 --> 01:42:49,640
We don't know what we were in the middle of.

1576
01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:53,640
It's pitch black. Let's just honor it for what it

1577
01:42:53,720 --> 01:43:00,600
is and let's back away. And so did. We sort

1578
01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:03,079
of backed out of the field. It stayed sort of

1579
01:43:03,079 --> 01:43:04,640
focused on us to sort of hopping. It was really

1580
01:43:04,640 --> 01:43:07,079
hovering probably about more than about two or three feet

1581
01:43:07,079 --> 01:43:12,039
above the ground at that point. So we've discussed it afterwards,

1582
01:43:12,039 --> 01:43:15,279
and the only thing we could compare it to in

1583
01:43:15,319 --> 01:43:21,840
our kind of cultural knowledge or you know, mythology from

1584
01:43:21,960 --> 01:43:24,640
the UK was something that was called a willow the wisp,

1585
01:43:25,920 --> 01:43:30,279
and that's what it seemed to be. So it was alive,

1586
01:43:30,359 --> 01:43:36,439
it was just enjoying itself. You know, It's clearly it

1587
01:43:36,479 --> 01:43:40,920
was intelligent, it was sentient, but I felt it sense

1588
01:43:41,039 --> 01:43:42,720
us and it almost like became a bit of a

1589
01:43:42,760 --> 01:43:46,920
Mexican standoff again, because it kind of grew in intensity,

1590
01:43:47,000 --> 01:43:50,960
like it was getting ready to do something, and I

1591
01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:54,000
didn't want either of us to get harmed. But also sometimes,

1592
01:43:54,000 --> 01:43:56,079
you know, we encounter these things and it's like, why

1593
01:43:56,079 --> 01:43:59,640
have humans always got to get their hands on stuff

1594
01:43:59,640 --> 01:44:03,239
and try pick it to pieces when we should just

1595
01:44:04,680 --> 01:44:08,159
you know, we've recognize and honor the fact that we've

1596
01:44:08,520 --> 01:44:14,199
witnessed something miraculous, and it's maybe it's a manifestation of nature.

1597
01:44:14,239 --> 01:44:17,640
It's a beautiful thing. It wasn't out to hurt us,

1598
01:44:19,039 --> 01:44:22,399
Just you know, honor it and walk away. And so

1599
01:44:22,520 --> 01:44:24,840
we do think that maybe what we saw was a

1600
01:44:26,079 --> 01:44:31,439
willow the whisper, but that clearly was a energy life

1601
01:44:31,439 --> 01:44:37,359
form that clearly had physical presence, had sentience, it was aware.

1602
01:44:39,159 --> 01:44:43,520
So I believe that we live in a very beautiful

1603
01:44:43,640 --> 01:44:48,079
and interesting world where there are perhaps these creatures, and

1604
01:44:48,520 --> 01:44:53,039
perhaps both things are true. Some of these things are physical,

1605
01:44:53,079 --> 01:44:57,800
but they can also shift between the dimensions. I have

1606
01:44:57,960 --> 01:45:01,199
no idea how the physics of that were. Look. Maybe

1607
01:45:01,199 --> 01:45:03,800
one day we will know it, but maybe we're not

1608
01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:09,560
grown up enough or evolved enough yet in our consciousness

1609
01:45:09,600 --> 01:45:14,279
to really embrace those things or be trusted with the

1610
01:45:14,319 --> 01:45:16,399
secrets of them, because look at what a mess we

1611
01:45:16,479 --> 01:45:18,920
make of most of the world. And I just think

1612
01:45:18,960 --> 01:45:22,039
what a beautiful world we could live in if we

1613
01:45:22,119 --> 01:45:24,319
knew all these answers and we just used all our

1614
01:45:24,520 --> 01:45:27,880
energy and attention, all our money and resources in the

1615
01:45:27,960 --> 01:45:32,800
right ways rather than in the destructive and divisive ways

1616
01:45:32,800 --> 01:45:37,119
in which they seem to be use in most of

1617
01:45:37,159 --> 01:45:39,680
the world. But there's clearly a bigger world out there

1618
01:45:39,720 --> 01:45:44,960
than human beings have got the ability to embrace. But

1619
01:45:45,000 --> 01:45:47,039
I think some of us are kind of getting there.

1620
01:45:49,039 --> 01:45:52,640
For me, it just makes me more aware of what

1621
01:45:52,840 --> 01:45:55,600
might be out there and makes me, yeah, keep my

1622
01:45:55,640 --> 01:45:58,600
head on the swivel. But unlike most of you, I

1623
01:45:58,640 --> 01:46:02,399
really would love to know the answers. And I think

1624
01:46:03,079 --> 01:46:04,800
now I've had a shift in life and I've kind

1625
01:46:04,800 --> 01:46:07,239
of freed up sort of time and energy and resources

1626
01:46:07,239 --> 01:46:10,359
for me, that's what I want to go forward and

1627
01:46:11,079 --> 01:46:15,119
go and explore. So yeah, there is an imminent US

1628
01:46:15,159 --> 01:46:19,640
tour being planned as we speak, So if anybody wants

1629
01:46:19,680 --> 01:46:23,479
to reach out, get in touch and connect, we'd love

1630
01:46:23,520 --> 01:46:25,159
to come out there. I think if I can probably

1631
01:46:25,199 --> 01:46:27,000
get a thing to come. You'd love that as well,

1632
01:46:27,359 --> 01:46:30,600
to come and explore some of the mysteries out there

1633
01:46:31,239 --> 01:46:34,479
and hopefully we can find some of the answers together.

1634
01:46:35,239 --> 01:46:37,600
Speaker 2: Be in the mag that you are for scary things.

1635
01:46:37,640 --> 01:46:40,319
Like I said, I can only imagine what's going to

1636
01:46:40,359 --> 01:46:42,479
happen if you make such a trip. And with that

1637
01:46:42,640 --> 01:46:44,760
in mind, if anyone does want to reach out to

1638
01:46:44,760 --> 01:46:48,079
you and offer a stay at their place or anything

1639
01:46:48,159 --> 01:46:50,760
like that to accommodate, what's the best way for them

1640
01:46:50,800 --> 01:46:51,239
to do that.

1641
01:46:52,560 --> 01:46:55,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that would be lovely. Yeah, so just reach

1642
01:46:55,800 --> 01:47:01,880
out email me. It's Nathan Siraya are e a Nathan

1643
01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:06,279
Sorea all one word at gmail dot com. So yeah,

1644
01:47:06,560 --> 01:47:09,399
love to hear from people and love to connect with people,

1645
01:47:09,439 --> 01:47:12,479
That's what I'm all about. Yeah, and we'd love to

1646
01:47:12,479 --> 01:47:14,720
come out and see some of the mysteries out there

1647
01:47:14,960 --> 01:47:16,039
in the US and Canada.

1648
01:47:16,119 --> 01:47:18,800
Speaker 2: Again, as hard to believe as it might be, I

1649
01:47:18,840 --> 01:47:21,560
think you're just getting started when it comes to all

1650
01:47:21,640 --> 01:47:24,159
the mysteries that are still left out there to be explored.

1651
01:47:25,159 --> 01:47:28,840
Speaker 1: Kobevic, I think it's a pretty big universe, I have

1652
01:47:28,920 --> 01:47:33,359
to say, folks, I think things are quickening at the moment.

1653
01:47:33,560 --> 01:47:37,359
So whatever people think. I know, we've been at this

1654
01:47:37,439 --> 01:47:39,760
kind of thing with the cryptis for many, many years,

1655
01:47:39,800 --> 01:47:41,960
but there are people out there with the knowledge, and

1656
01:47:42,479 --> 01:47:46,880
I think we're getting closer to the answers of what

1657
01:47:47,079 --> 01:47:50,800
these things are. And I really do hope, in fact,

1658
01:47:50,920 --> 01:47:54,199
you know, really intend that that we find the answers

1659
01:47:54,239 --> 01:47:56,840
to these beings, that they feel that they can communicate

1660
01:47:56,880 --> 01:47:59,680
with us. Our ancestors have got a massive history of

1661
01:48:01,399 --> 01:48:04,640
communicating with these other realms and respect for them. I

1662
01:48:04,680 --> 01:48:07,720
mean there's been you know, stories of the werewolves in

1663
01:48:08,159 --> 01:48:12,159
the forests in Europe for centuries, and also people connecting

1664
01:48:12,239 --> 01:48:15,039
with the Faye, with the elementals, with the fairy realms

1665
01:48:15,479 --> 01:48:21,279
the Faye which often resemble these you know, classic gray extraterrestrials.

1666
01:48:21,359 --> 01:48:25,039
So well, I still believe that we have, you know,

1667
01:48:25,119 --> 01:48:27,680
both things are out there. There's interdimensional stuff and there

1668
01:48:27,760 --> 01:48:32,960
is extraterrestrial stuff. So I think in the next few

1669
01:48:33,039 --> 01:48:35,680
years we are really going to see something. And I've

1670
01:48:35,720 --> 01:48:39,960
had some very prophetic dreams that show things turning up.

1671
01:48:40,199 --> 01:48:43,079
So let's hope we get the answers because I just

1672
01:48:43,079 --> 01:48:46,399
think what a beautiful world we would live in when

1673
01:48:46,439 --> 01:48:51,279
we know more about the world we live in if

1674
01:48:51,319 --> 01:48:53,000
you get me, I.

1675
01:48:53,000 --> 01:48:55,760
Speaker 2: Do get you, And of course there would be life

1676
01:48:55,800 --> 01:48:59,199
before in life after such revealing, and for some time

1677
01:48:59,239 --> 01:49:01,600
now there's been a lot of talk about that revealing.

1678
01:49:01,880 --> 01:49:04,520
It does make you wonder if it's just around the corner.

1679
01:49:04,960 --> 01:49:09,199
I guess time will tell on that. But having said that, Nathan,

1680
01:49:09,239 --> 01:49:11,039
I can't thank you enough for coming on and sure

1681
01:49:11,079 --> 01:49:13,720
the details of all these experiences with this. I really

1682
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:14,560
appreciate it.

1683
01:49:15,600 --> 01:49:18,239
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, Vick, and sincerely, you know I've listened

1684
01:49:18,279 --> 01:49:21,640
to you for a long time and thank you for

1685
01:49:21,720 --> 01:49:25,920
what you do because talking people through the trauma of this.

1686
01:49:26,000 --> 01:49:29,520
You know, I am a trained therapist. I haven't put

1687
01:49:29,560 --> 01:49:31,960
myself out there to do this work with people, but

1688
01:49:32,199 --> 01:49:34,880
I feel that's what I'm being called to do because

1689
01:49:35,279 --> 01:49:38,920
I do know that so many people are struggling with this.

1690
01:49:39,079 --> 01:49:43,920
And you know, as someone that struggles with trauma and

1691
01:49:43,960 --> 01:49:46,880
then also has this kind of other sight to his life,

1692
01:49:46,920 --> 01:49:50,359
how do you explain those things to regular you know,

1693
01:49:50,560 --> 01:49:54,680
medical staff and therapists. It's very difficult, can be very lonely,

1694
01:49:54,720 --> 01:49:57,079
and I think the isolation and the loneliness with something

1695
01:49:57,239 --> 01:50:00,359
like this is the hardest thing. So you know, you

1696
01:50:00,399 --> 01:50:01,840
do a great job. And I know you talk to

1697
01:50:02,000 --> 01:50:05,920
so many people offline and you talk them down and

1698
01:50:05,960 --> 01:50:08,079
you help them out. And God bless you, sir for

1699
01:50:08,199 --> 01:50:10,720
what you do. So you know, and I can tell

1700
01:50:11,119 --> 01:50:13,319
you're one of the good guys. You're very, very genuine

1701
01:50:13,359 --> 01:50:15,800
in what you do and you do care and that's

1702
01:50:15,880 --> 01:50:19,159
a you know, that's h So you have my respect, Vick.

1703
01:50:19,279 --> 01:50:20,880
You really do well.

1704
01:50:20,880 --> 01:50:23,439
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for all those kind words. I really

1705
01:50:23,479 --> 01:50:25,720
wouldn't have it any other way though. I just feel

1706
01:50:25,760 --> 01:50:28,039
blessed to be in a position to help the eyewitnesses.

1707
01:50:28,279 --> 01:50:31,840
I really do. But having said that, thanks again so

1708
01:50:31,920 --> 01:50:34,880
much for your time, Nathan, I really do appreciate it.

1709
01:50:35,560 --> 01:50:37,479
In the future, if I can never help you out,

1710
01:50:37,600 --> 01:50:38,439
please let me know.

1711
01:50:39,920 --> 01:50:42,800
Speaker 1: Thanks, Vick, I really appreciate that. Yeah. God bless and

1712
01:50:43,399 --> 01:50:45,319
you know, good luck everyone.

1713
01:50:45,520 --> 01:50:48,840
Speaker 2: Oh no, you're welcome. God bless you onan have a

1714
01:50:48,840 --> 01:50:49,319
great night.

1715
01:51:11,920 --> 01:51:22,640
Speaker 1: English