Speaker 1: You are now listening to soft core history.
Speaker 2: What is up? Welcome back to softcore History. I am
your host for the week, Rob Fox, joined as always
by Dan Rejester. We got new set, deck, We do
have new set.
Speaker 1: Shouts to Mattie Ice and uh got a little Teddy
Roosevelt on my little stands, just to say Teddy Roosevelt,
just Teddy Roosevelt. His epitaph should be bad hang, nothing crazy.
He was a bad hang. Somebody you need in the
group though.
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh, impressive dude, great dude, but just exhausting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want him to plan the trip and then
not participate. Great guy for that glue guy.
Speaker 2: Because he plans the trip and it's sick, right, it's
a rad trip, but you have to be around him.
But then yeah, nights, it's morning one. You've already had
your night, like you got to the city and you
fucking went out and had a good time or whatever.
Morning one of day two, seven in the morning, bully.
Speaker 1: Wake up boys, bachelor party. Teddy's there. You just feed
him drinks all morning at brunch. Yeah, we're playing golf.
Feed him drinks. Try to knock him out quick, knock
him out by the launch.
Speaker 2: That's what Teddy is. Yeah, you're like Teddy, you can't
do that. You can't do another shadow rumpmans. You ain't
got it in you anymore. You don't get that dog
in you anymore. Son hand'ed me the minty liquor. I
shall chug it. You're outest like toty Tody Toody.
Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, I guess he's gonna be your brother
in law. That's the only reason he's at the bachelor
party to begin with.
Speaker 2: Oh man, I always feel bad, and I've actually been
on a on a bachelor party like that before, but
I always feel bad for the guy in the.
Speaker 1: Group who that knows no one else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's buddies with the guy.
Speaker 1: Family member that's involved in the wedding. Yeah, you're marrying
into that family or.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I had one of those on my bachelor's
my own brother Pat. He didn't really know. He knew Denny,
my buddy Denny, but he didn't know any really anyone
else from Pat's a total nerd my fraternity. Uh, not nerd,
but he's he's a weirdo. I think his wedding announcement
or not his wedding announcement.
Speaker 1: But has to be way more insultant is to call
him a total weirdo but not a nerd.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a he's dumb, and he's dumb and bizarre.
Speaker 1: Uh, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt of
being smart.
Speaker 2: He is nerdy in his own way. His engagement party
was just him and his then fiancee now wife photoshopped
into the roadhouse poster. It was like the main piece
of the decoration.
Speaker 1: That. Did they do a roadhouse themed wedding?
Speaker 2: I wish no, but that was one. Actually I didn't
go on the bachelor party. I couldn't make it because
one of my kids had just been born. But uh,
on the wedding excuses, do you even care about your brother?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know your family members.
Speaker 2: I love Pat Pat. I indoctrinated into Atlanta Braves fandom,
so we're tight. Uh. But I was like, I was
in the wedding party right, and it was me my
other brother Tom, who had gone on the Batchel party
so he had met them before. And then just like
all of my brother's fraternity brothers who were all like
cool guys, but like I did not know them. I like,
I was just like but a lot of them looked
up to you. They did not.
Speaker 1: In fact, dude, DFM, you're so cool man. I used
to read your shill during actually fuck you Bacon during
the best man speech his best man specific Glee made
fun of TFM. Yeah, dunked on you. Yeah hard, Yeah,
just put his nuts all over your face like.
Speaker 2: Fucking sweet after the fat. But I see, I've been
on both sides of that, and it stinks. It's stinks,
and that's who Teddy would be that guy for sure
to bring it back around.
Speaker 1: I guess well, he would never be on another side
of that. He would only be on one side. Yeah,
And it's knowing one person, yes.
Speaker 2: And then like waking everyone up at seven, I've made
egg because it's bacon.
Speaker 1: And you're like sausages. That's awesome. Yeah, that's very clutch
of you, Teddy. And then you listen to him continue
to talk right, and you're like, hey, Teddy, here's a bottle.
Do a pool? Do another pool, Teddy? Do another pool?
Speaker 2: A what a pool of liquor? A poll p u
l ll pool. I don't want to hear shit about
how I say warm again pool?
Speaker 1: People say pool pull. Yeah, I'm saying the same thing.
Speaker 2: You're not. You're saying swimming pool.
Speaker 1: You are a fucking Midwestern weirdo. You are saying swimming
pool pool. Do you just just get on the discord? Guys,
also patreon dot com slash softcore history. If you join,
you can be on our disc It is not it's
nothing like you saying weirm. We wear me out right now,
get on the discord and please weigh it on this.
For the love of God, I can. I'm a mush
mouth because I'm from Philadelphia. Yes, you go warm. He
still wear me out right now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty weirm, butter getting the pool.
Speaker 1: Doing a pool?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 1: A pool in the pool.
Speaker 2: Let the We're gonna let the people weigh out of this.
Speaker 1: Because now I understand it's the same thing. I say,
wolf and wolf. What like a wolf goes wolf?
Speaker 2: Okay, that sounded fine. Nah, it's kind of similar like
a wolf. I also have a hard.
Speaker 1: Time saying gee in anything that ends in I in
g So, like I said, wedding, which is wedding.
Speaker 2: There, whatever you're wedding, you're just casual there.
Speaker 1: You put an apostrophee something the same thing, pool liquor,
God damn it.
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about a warm place with lots
of pools.
Speaker 1: Jamaica, Bahama, come, I'm pretty mama.
Speaker 2: So I specifically did this episode because this is something
a history article came across my feet or whatever, and
I was I just I did not know this. I
did not know that this person did this, and it
was immediately fascinating to me. So I think most people
are aware that Jamaica was a British colonial possession, right.
Speaker 1: Fucking live over here already starting with the word colonial.
Speaker 2: It was Spanish first, and we'll get to that, but
it was. It was a British colony for most of
its history once your Europe got to the Americas. But
I don't really think much about Jamaica ever in any capacity.
Just not a place that interests me. I don't really
ever want to go there, do you?
Speaker 1: You don want to go to Sandals?
Speaker 2: Sandals Jamaic? I mean everyone speaks English, I guess, which
is nice, But like, I don't know, I'm not a
big Caribbean guy.
Speaker 1: Maybe if you want your kid to be a track star,
you send him down to Jamaica. You want your kids
to be a wrestling star, Dugistan, you want them to
be a track Heroica.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like they lack the genetics to really
cash in on that training. It's hard work. Yeah, that's
it's all. They're all just jim rats.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was saying Bolt definitely doesn't have the body for running.
Speaker 1: Nature versus nurture. Really. Yeah, if Finn's just growing up
in Jamaica for the first twelve years of his life,
I think he'll just be really fast.
Speaker 2: I think I'd rather grow up in Jamaica than Augusta
if I.
Speaker 1: Had to pick. He'll be more disciplined in Augustan.
Speaker 2: That's probably true. So Jamaica is gonna be a total
wild card. Yeah. Uh, Jamaica, Like I starts talking like
hey man.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was gonna say, he's gonna start talking like
chet Hanks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hey ja man, Yeah, relax man. So Jamaica I
sort of assumed just kind of got colonized by the British,
like in the early to mid seventeen hundreds, like basically
like Pirates of the Caribbean era. Pirates of the Caribbean
takes place in the seventeen twenties. I kind of figured
it was around then.
Speaker 1: I would have thought kind of closer to Cuba, Cortez,
the Spanish.
Speaker 2: Well, that's when the Spanish kind of got there. Yeah,
but I didn't think the British got it.
Speaker 1: I think they were setting up shop.
Speaker 2: They did, but I didn't think the British got in
there until the seventeen hundreds. That's just kind of my
thought was my thought on it.
Speaker 1: Well, that's because you're a dumb bitch.
Speaker 2: But not only is that that uh, not true, I guess.
But it turns out that Jamaica has something in common
with Ireland. And this is what shocked me.
Speaker 1: They have native whites.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, of course not. In fact, everyone
you think of as Jamaica not from Jamaica. Obviously, they're
all fucking black, like it's it's there. They're slaves or
ex slaves. But I did not realize that the Englishman
who kicked off the colonization of Jamaica all the way
back in the sixteen fifties was none other than Ireland's
hitler Oliver Cromwell. The crom Man, one of the low
key worst people in history who killed up to was
responsible for up to or I will say between a.
Speaker 1: Faties breaking your brain, you're operating very slowly a fifty.
Speaker 2: It's early in the world and I'm on my first
energy drink. I'm not even like a quarter the way
through it. Between fifteen and fifty percent of the Irish
population died or declined due to Cromwell's direct military actions,
which included induced famines and deportations like he went into
Ireland after the English Civil War and maybe even during
the English Civil War. I didn't read up on that part.
I just know that Cromwell's a mass be shit, just
slaughtered the fucking Irish, like probably the number one villain
in Irish history with a bullet.
Speaker 1: We just kind of let things slide.
Speaker 2: We deserved it, Just another day on the Cloudy Island.
Speaker 1: We don't go out and try to conquer other lands.
We don't even protect our own land. No, We're just like, yeah,
I guess we kind of asked for it.
Speaker 2: People just keep showing up vikings, English.
Speaker 1: Wreck us every time.
Speaker 2: Here who he cook? And just another day.
Speaker 1: Although there's like some like alternate dumb history about Irish
potentially meeting up with the Aztecs, that's a crossover that
I did not expect to hear.
Speaker 2: If you I could not pick a people less likely
to be able to do a transatlantic crossing than the
Irish and the Irish it's just not absolutely fucking not.
Speaker 1: But allegedly there was like these prophecies for the Aztecs
in Montezuma that like demigods are gonna come over from
the East, and they think it was because and again
this is not confirmed or even remotely plausible, but there's
somebody out there floating the conspiracy that the Irish actually
came across the Aztecs way before the Spanish.
Speaker 2: No. No, and we're like the Vikings as well, what
even Yeah, yeah, and the Albanians linked up with the
ink An Empire. Be sure, fucking.
Speaker 1: This is just Capcom Marvel, just mash it together.
Speaker 2: I can. There's no world in which I can suspend
disbelief that heart that the Irish built a boat and
cross the Atlantic before anyone. It just didn't happen.
Speaker 1: No, we can't build boats. I'm just saying this. I've
heard this theory out there on the Internet and it
just tells you how fucking dumb the internet is.
Speaker 2: Now. It impossible ask to believe that. So Cromwell, He's
worth doing an entire episode on just for how much
of a massive piece of shit he is. But we're
gonna stick to Jamaica here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's flying under the radar in history.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, oh boy. And he, by the way, a
low key caesar, English caesar in that he brings helps
bring down the monarchy. In the English Civil War, Charles
the First is executed and he becomes Lord Protector for
life if that sounds fucking million of the realm, and
then his son takes over after he dies, so it's
not even like an appointed anti monarchical position, like his
son takes over and his son is immediately so incompetent
that the monarchy gets put back in place.
Speaker 1: But you pop over to the Americas and you're like,
this is this is my kingdom now.
Speaker 2: So that's kind of what he did after Cromwell becomes
Lord Protector in sixteen fifty three.
Speaker 1: That's kind of what Cortez did as well. What he
just popped over here and he's like, yeah, I know
when I'm supposed to be representing the King of Spain
and a couple of the richer men that are sponsoring
this trip, but I think I'm just going to keep
the gold for myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not here.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to kind of hang out here, right,
I think this is going to be my home.
Speaker 2: Now. I'll still send for more powder and guns and troops,
but I think it's just mine. Yeah, why would I
go back? It seems so daunting like kingdom. Now, I'm
like the or just landowner of the Spanish nobility.
Speaker 1: I just conquered this shit with like forty dudes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they killed Aztec batman.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. I want to do an entire episode on
Quartz because I think he both unfairly gets painted with
a bad brush, but also maybe the other side gives
him too much of a.
Speaker 2: Pass, like he just gets forgotten.
Speaker 1: No, I think Cortes is either villainized incredibly hard like
overly villainized, or people just overcompensate and just make like
justify everything he did. Oh yeah yeah yeah, but there's
just no nuance on Quartez.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, like, oh he showed up and so you
sad you had to cool them.
Speaker 1: That baby sacrifices.
Speaker 2: Like, first off, I will forever say that the Christian
churches of Europe at that time were also partaking in
human sacrifice. If you kill a witch, that's human sacrifice.
Speaker 1: Also, like they're version of cannibalism for the Aztecs was
like us eating communion, at least symbolically. Okay, they did
eat human.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look like no one's arguing for pieces religious sacrifice,
you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you can religious rituals.
Speaker 2: You walk and chew gum. You can just say everyone
was a piece of shit. Yeah, it's not that fucking hard, right,
Like it's insane that that's the only way to defend
to Like, it's stupid anyway. So Cromwell English civil wars settled.
He's Lord Protector, he's in charge, and he's like, all right,
let's let's do some shit. Let's get to work.
Speaker 1: So he.
Speaker 2: Commissions a massive fleet to set sail for the New
World for the Caribbean to take out not Jamaica but
Spanish Hispaniola. In sixteen fifty four, they want to take
the Dominican Republic slash Haiti from the.
Speaker 1: Only time anyone's ever wanted Haiti.
Speaker 2: Well, Spain owned is the whole island. So there is
no even Haiti yet at that point, No, no, no
French there yet.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, where did the French get involved
in Haiti?
Speaker 2: After all of this this this, this is a huge
this is This is what's crazy, is what I learned
from this episode is a Jamaica weirdly a like lynchpin
in world history.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's weird because everyone sets up
shop in the Caribbean. They're just kind of like.
Speaker 2: The conquest of Jamaica changes the game entirely for New
World colonialization.
Speaker 1: You're also not really going to come across too many
native trouble on the islands.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not like on the continent itself, where there's a
lot more of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, I don't really know the terrain of
mainland USA and the natives might be an issue, But
if I go to these islands, we just kind of
clear out shop.
Speaker 2: Yeah you're fine, Yeah, we're good to go. So Cromwell launchpad.
Cromwell wants to start cutting into Spanish power in the
New World. Now the English have colonies at this point.
We'll talk about that in a little bit, but nothing
in the Caribbean, nothing in where basically all the gold
is coming from, which is like Mexico, South America, stuff
like that. Crama wants to cut into that. Also, this
English Civil War had just ended, and I guess there
was just like a whole army just standing around with
nothing to do, and generals standing around with nothing to do.
Idle hands, idle armies. Yeah, Devil's playground. So Cromwell needed well.
He was more worried about it being them getting restless
and maybe him losing power. So he was like, I
need to keep these guys occupied. They were not happy.
They had lost their purpose, right, like the war was over.
What we do now? Where this sweet army? Where the
new model army? What do we do? And Cromwell's like,
all right, let's have them conquers and islands or something.
Speaker 1: Gotta stay sharp, yeah, stay in training.
Speaker 2: Yes. So the expedition had two commanders, an admiral and
a general. The admiral was Admiral William Penn. You're welcome,
father of the founder of Pennsylvania, of Billy Penn. Yeah,
William Penn's father. William Penn's father is on the strip.
And then General Robert Venables, who was this is what
this said, So you can take this for what it means.
Experienced officer from the Irish campaigns, what would you say? Then?
I would say he's very good at going to an
island and murdering everyone.
Speaker 1: Experience yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2: Give you our best man who's better than anyone going
to an island and mattering people. That'll be General Robert Venables.
All right, get him on a boat. We got a
new island. We need to murder.
Speaker 1: Venables as you say, yeah, any relation.
Speaker 2: You gotta think he is the Oklahoma coaches descendant. Yeah,
Bret Venables direct descended.
Speaker 1: We had to connect those dots? What we had to
connect them?
Speaker 2: Do you have to connect those dots? Yeah. So on
April thirteenth, sixteen fifty five, around four thousand troops land
near Santo Domingo. They outnumbered the Spanish about like, I think,
like five to one. And this Spanish situation here, I
don't know if they'd gotten lazy because they really didn't
have any competition, or if they had just kind of
been forgotten because it's the sixteen fifties and exactly easy
to get to the New World. But the Spanish outpost
was grim like it was just a shithole, and the
troops weren't very good, and they did a lot of
supplies and stuff like that. But lucky for them, these
guys were fuck These English guys were fucking incompetent and
fucked up from the jump.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're you're coming over from like England, You're used
to it being like sixty five degrees all year, not
a lot of humidity. You come over to these mosquito
ridden just hot.
Speaker 3: Places, considering how much people traveled back then, a type
of heat and humidity that you've literally not only never experienced,
but probably couldn't even fucking fathom. We talk about this today, right,
Like Europe there are more heat related injuries or deaths
than Americans with gun violence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, every year if.
Speaker 2: You take out suicides, if you just go homicides, it's
not even it's like ten to one. Yeah, So many
Europeans die from just heat because there's no air. In fact,
one of someone who's running for French president or whatever.
I don't even know how this shit works, but uh,
they're running on an partly on an anti air conditioning platform.
Speaker 1: That's that's how maw killed forty million people. That's gonna
be France's mao.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, an unbelievab like good intentions, awful results that.
Speaker 2: I now kind of view all of Europe the way
I view Greece, which is like you're really skating by
on a good history.
Speaker 1: I can't take you seriously, Yeah, like you need to
be relegated. You see, an ice makes me so patriotic. Yeah,
I'm like, yeah, we are the best country.
Speaker 2: It's not even It is to the point now when
I read things like that where I'm like, oh, there's
no one even in America's stratosphere like I thought, England, France, Germany,
like those places are legit, not as big, but legit.
You read about the air conditioning stuff, and you're just like,
does any of the world know what they're doing besides us?
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't feel like cana is turning into Europe
as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, why they're already europe light.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but now they're finding people like twenty five thousand
dollars for going on hikes. What why in certain parts
of the country into it land or no, they are
afraid of wildfires. Oh, they're like these hikers are setting
fires and causing the country to burn down.
Speaker 2: Well I'm a little conflicted there because I'm pro freedom,
but I am anti hiking. So I'm just gonna see
how that one shakes up.
Speaker 1: Okay, just repress freedom.
Speaker 2: Well, stupid freedoms like hiking.
Speaker 1: Hiking's awesome hiking. I'm spending by my holiday coming up
going hiking.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You can crow about your mistakes all day here
if you want. Sounds terrible.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have fun.
Speaker 2: That's glad. I'm happy for you. You look the way
you look because you hate hiking. Yeah, hiking blows, so
you're pale. I'm happy to go on a walk.
Speaker 1: You're out of shape.
Speaker 2: Happy to go on a walk. I don't want to hike.
Speaker 1: It's the same thing. It's not nature walk.
Speaker 2: It's not because if I go on a walk, if
I like to walk through like a city or something,
you know, like, it's pop in and get a coffee,
keep walking, stop literally wherever I want to get a
bite to eat. Hike. Let's just go live like our ancestors.
Sounds terrible.
Speaker 1: I like the element of danger.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope a mountain lion pops out. Now you don't,
don't die.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't be able to do the show.
Speaker 2: Fight away.
Speaker 1: Just go on YouTube, figure it out, turn the cameras on. Try.
Speaker 2: YouTube will tell me how. No YouTube will tell me.
Speaker 1: You still won't figure it out.
Speaker 2: It's fine. YouTube will tell me. There are more successful
podcasts with far lower production quality.
Speaker 1: Ain't that the truth?
Speaker 2: So the English troops landed thirty miles off course from
Santo Domingo still decided to get off their boats immediately
in all the stuff you mentioned. Their armor, their big
fluffy pants, every their wool clothes immediately get lost in
the jungle. And then it starts dumping rain so hard
that all of their gunpowder gets soaked.
Speaker 1: Through because you're getting stuck in the mud. Yeah, oh,
it's just you're all kitted up. I can't think of
like a worse time with the boys.
Speaker 2: No, it's a bad hike. It's a bad hike.
Speaker 1: It's a bad hike.
Speaker 2: The assault they eventually do assault Santa Domingo in Hispaniola,
it goes about as badly as it could go. Like
I said, they had five thousand troops. Spanish have about
a thousand. The English suffer a thousand casualties.
Speaker 1: Spanish are good with smaller numbers.
Speaker 2: They are. They're inefficient people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they crush. So the English cortest took down ten
thousand people, twenty thousand people.
Speaker 2: I mean he had a native army behind him too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there were some battles where he had five
hundred yeah, yeah, yeah, And just crush them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, guns are crazy like that.
Speaker 1: Canons.
Speaker 2: We did also we did episodes. I don't know if
it was on Cortez, but we did episode about how
like a lot of the battles. At first, the Indians
were kind of it's crazy that steel can beat stick. Yeah,
steel greater than stone. But the Indians were also like
completely caught off guard obviously by what the fuck even
a gun or cannon was, and even more so that
they thought, uh, any Spaniard on a horse was a centaur.
Speaker 1: Yeah. A lot of what Cortes did initially was just
show the amount of power he had. He would just
be like, hey, he wouldn't actually hurt the natives, he
would just show them. He'd be like, hey, blast this
cannon into their sacred tree, and you're like holy shit, Like, uh,
it must be a god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think he's a god because he did
that to the other gods thing, and the other god
hasn't done anything back.
Speaker 1: And they had never seen horses.
Speaker 2: They hadn't know the horse is scared the absolute fight.
It was the same way with like the elephants and
the romans. Uh.
Speaker 1: He would also get the biggest stud horse and uh,
like a mare, and he would have the the just
stud horse fuck the ship out of the mare in
front of the Indians, and then they would be kind
of terrified of that, and then cortesould just whispering to
the horse and it would stop. He's like, oh shit,
he has so much control, controls.
Speaker 2: These horrifying beasts. So the English get absolutely wiped. They
have to withdraw. Tensions between Pen and Venables get really bad.
Uh they are. They're they're just arguing with each other
fucking constantly, like they don't like each other. They're trying
to blame each other for who fucked up. Venables eventually
is like this went as bad as it could go,
and we have a psychotic dictator back home that we
have to answer to. Let's try to salvage this trip
a little bit.
Speaker 1: Gotta find something.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So he's like, I'm pretty sure there's like eight
guys in Jamaica, like eight Spanish guys in jama We
can go get Jamaica.
Speaker 1: Let's just take it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Venables was also like paranoid that Penn was
going to fuck him over and just like leave him
and sail back to England. So that's another reason always
ran that risk. Yeah, that's that's another reason he wanted
to do the Jamaica campaign, just to like keep Penn
occupied here. So on May nineteenth, sixteen fifty five, the
English fleet, now with thirty ships and seven thousand troops. Uh,
they get to Jamaica and uh, the Spanish resistance is
like the English still fuck up, like they don't read
the water right and several of their big ships run aground.
Speaker 1: We're stuck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like it it. It was another kind of shit show.
But there was just not enough Spanish to do anything
about it. So the governor of Jamaica, Governor Ramirez, they
were horribly outnumbered. He was sick.
Speaker 1: He's like, I don't even want to defend them.
Speaker 2: Right, So he surrenders six days later and agrees to
evacuate the Spanish civilians within two weeks. Ramirez dies on
the way to Mexico, but not all the Spanish surrender.
A lot of them retreat to the hills. By the way.
Ramirez as soon as he sees the British show up,
this out numbered they are, He's like, oh, fuck.
Speaker 1: Did not think anyone would even want.
Speaker 2: This, right, right, He's like, god damn it. So his
first thing is He's like, we don't have anybody here.
So they immediately free all the slaves and give them
weapons and are like, let's kill the British. A fair
amount of the slaves or like peace and just run
off unsurprisingly, but a lot of others do join, do
join the Spanish and anyway, they surrender six days later,
so a lot of them, the freed slaves and the
Spanish who didn't want to surrender, including Francisco da Parenza,
they just go up into the hills and they start
a guerrilla war against pen Invenables and all of their troops.
This also goes horrifically for the English.
Speaker 1: All of these people, these are hard motherfuckers working on
like sugar plantations.
Speaker 2: Not yet there are no I don't think there's sugar
plantations yet.
Speaker 1: Okay, well these are still hard mother they're still hard motherfuckers.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the Spanish who don't surrender go off into
the hills. They start a gorilla campaign. Pen Invenables set
up shop in Jamaica and they're like, we've done it,
We've conquered something, hooray, but the island must take its payment,
because again, these are pasty never left England or Ireland.
Motherfuckers in a tropical climate for the first time in
their lives.
Speaker 1: They came across a smoke monster.
Speaker 2: They honestly, I think a smoke monster is baasically it's
basically a symbolic of dysentery. Cause you better believe, as
soon as these guys started hanging out in Jamaica, they
all got diarrhea, so fruit based diet, they could not
stop crapping their pantaloons. The disease and the gorilla war
get so bad. And starvation too, by the way, because
they like they didn't have enough supplies and the gorillas
made sure that they weren't going to eat. Only about
twenty five hundred of the original seven thousand troops survived.
Speaker 1: The first year on coconut milk colone.
Speaker 2: It's fucking bad. So they do get Jamaica, though they
do cling on some fucking how to Jamaica.
Speaker 1: Do they sign like a treaty with these gorillas.
Speaker 2: No, they're just eventually murder everyone. I mean, they wear
them down, but they like the gorillas take their toll,
but they're not gonna win, like they don't. They don't
have the ability.
Speaker 1: Just the manpower, the resources. Yeah, so once Penn, are
they still kind of terroraced on the island where they
just kind of hit the British wherever they can. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
they're kind of going so the British like get control
of the island, but it's just constant nuisance.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Penn is like, okay, cool, I think we
have at least the main town in the island lockdown.
I'm going back to England and he just fucking bolts
the Venables was right. Penn wanted to go back. Penn
wants to go back because again, they have a psychotic,
murderous dictator back home, and Penn would really like to
tell his side of the story first as to why
they don't control Hispaniola, why they took this dog shit
little island that no one cared about, and why most
of their dudes were dead.
Speaker 1: We must work because obviously his son gets paid the
great State of Pennsylvania. We'll get there, We'll get to it.
Speaker 2: Venables would have liked to race back as well, but
at the time Penn left, he was basically a living
skeleton from all his diarrhea. M h.
Speaker 1: I mean, think about that fucking cross atlantic trip as well.
Speaker 2: Back He's not surviving on a boat. He's got to
wait till he's in better health, so he's just got
to sit there. Eventually, Venables does get back as well.
Speaker 1: And they're little down in Jamaica there, like chickens here
and there.
Speaker 2: I don't eat pigs. Yeah, probably some pigs and chickens,
but like don't enough to support you know, seven eight
thousand people. They fishing, you would drink, probably trying to
fish and stuff like that. It's just not enough. They're
not getting enough food.
Speaker 1: There's super lean.
Speaker 2: The farming's probably not very set up.
Speaker 1: They're probably like, look how cut we are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's got to be a few days like
I look where you're like, dude, I mean I know
I'm sick, but like what what what? What?
Speaker 1: See these apps?
Speaker 2: What? It's all six right there?
Speaker 1: No women though, yeah, well yeah that's probable.
Speaker 2: I mean there's Native women. I guess you could kidnap
and Native ish. I mean there's still natives on the
island at the time of Jamaica.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very limited.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no lot, but there's some, there's someone. I'm sure
It's not an island of only dudes.
Speaker 1: Just dude island.
Speaker 2: Dude, dude, island, so eventually Venables is able to make
it back and they both tell their side of the
story to Cromwell about why they didn't take the island
he told them to take, but they got this other
island that's totally cool too, And Cromwell's like, you both
abandon your posts, you pieces of shit, and he throws
them in the Tower of London.
Speaker 1: Places I don't want to go in that time, And uh,
I believe the Tower of London is one of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
part of the interruption, but it is damn with an
ad read what that's crazy? I know, sitting in my
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Speaker 2: Now, this whole campaign again was part of Cromwell's what
was called the Western Design, and what was going on
at the time, like I said, was Cromwell wanted to
cut into Spanish power. At first, people were like this
is stupid, Like imagine it's almost like like they're like,
you want to go off to the Spanish. We're not
even fighting them anymore. It's kind of like if you know,
like you keep calling the Russians your enemy, and then
other people like what Cold War's over? Dipshit, that was
like one hundred years ago. Who cares?
Speaker 1: I remember all our enemies in England. Yeah, I will
not fuck with England, Japan, Germany, Germany, Russia, Italy, Vietnam,
France because of getting US into Vietnam. Honestly, useless assholes
France is the reason Vietnam happened. Like that's they don't
get enough hate for that.
Speaker 2: They really don't. They really really don't couldn't handle their
own shit. It's funny that people are like, well, really,
just France lost World War Two like they incompetent ever since.
So one of the big things Cromwell wanted to do,
aside from cut into Spanish power was up until this point,
English colonialism was really a private endeavor. Like with the Spanish,
they went on behalf of the crown, right like they
went they took things for the crown. With the English
like Jamestown and stuff like that. It was all private, like,
it wasn't really government funded people. People could would fly
the flag and be like I've claimed this for the
queen or whatever, but really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the private companies in England, like the East
India Company, they were nations themselves. Yeah, but it wasn't
even the resources military.
Speaker 2: It wasn't even East India setting up these things. These
were like guys like these are like sub sects of them. Yeah,
but these are like guys trying to like get a
cool investment and like get rich. This is like this
is like your tech get rich quick situation, right, is
setting up a colony in the New World. Yeah, I mean,
the the East India Company is the one that popped off,
but they weren't really in the Americas.
Speaker 1: Sure, But what I'm kind of alluding this to is like,
all right, say your startup Apple was a start up
at one point, yeah, popped off and then yeah, you're
gonna have all these like little tiny there's a tech bubble.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, there was a colony, Bob, there
was a colony bubble.
Speaker 2: So that's how it used to be. But with Cromwell's plan,
he was like, we're taking it. The government is going
to do this, and that's why he poured all these
resources into this ill fated campaign or whatever. And Cromwell
also wanted to do what the Spanish were doing, because
with the English it was like, Okay, we're gonna set
up a colony and build it and you know, try
to like grow stuff and so whatever, whatever it'll be,
it'll be a trading post and all this stuff. The
Spanish just going in, I mean like you're a slave,
now get all the gold out of the ground. Cromwell
wanted to extract resources. He wanted to go Spanish style.
Speaker 1: Resource rich environment.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Him doing this and him federalizing is not the
right word, but just like putting in under state control
completely altered the colonial situation and the international situation going forward.
At the time, the Spanish habsburgs. They claimed all of
America from the Straight of Magellan in South America all
the way up to the Arctic, like that is all ours,
but except for Portuguese Brazil. But they didn't really have
the resources to go up to Jamestown and be like,
get the fuck out, and they didn't care. They thought
everything north of Florida was worthless.
Speaker 1: They were kind of right, Florida is the perfect spot.
I will not argue with the Spanish there.
Speaker 2: So they were like, God, damn it, they're made a
colony in fucking mass of Watson. Okay, we'll get them
when we can. I guess, I don't know. There's no
gold there, so who cares this according to the space Honestly,
settlements were legal, but they couldn't do anything right. So
once the English take Jamaica, it becomes a full out war.
The Spanish Anglo War of the mid sixteen fifties breaks
out entirely because of the English taking Jamaica, so Cromwell
kind of gets the war he wanted again also to
keep his dudes occupied. It goes on in the Caribbean
until the sixteen seventies, stops in Europe in the sixteen
fifties with the Treaty of Madrid. The Treaty of Madrid,
because the Spanish law kind of lost the war Spain
finally acknowledges that not only is Jamaica England's, but anything
they've claimed before that Plymouth, Jamestown, whatever, that's all English now.
So they've given up. They have given up their claim
on the entire Western hemisphere.
Speaker 1: Man, he can't fight that war where it's navy heavy.
You know, the British are going to roll you if
you're not the Portuguese pretty much.
Speaker 2: I mean, the Spanish had good, good navies, but the
British always.
Speaker 1: And no one's just no one's talking about the Spanish navy. Yeah,
no one's ever.
Speaker 2: Just the Armada, that's it. And what the Armada do
took an.
Speaker 1: L always, yeah, they they are noted for taking ol.
Speaker 2: Yeah it was big, but they took a fucking L.
So now that Spain is like fine, God damn it,
we don't control the whole Western hemisphere. France is like,
oh really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's our Q Yeah, oh yeah, that's France's music Barca.
Speaker 2: So France is like, come some dirty, dirty traps. France
is like, we're getting in this ship. They go into Canada,
they get in. They also go into the Caribbean and
they take half of Hispaniola Haiti, which becomes Haiti probably
the worst thing that could have happened to that island.
Speaker 1: Well, the best thing for America that they eventually when
Napoleon comes to power and sees how big of a
liability and piece of shit, uh, investment for Haiti is
for the French, and it's up just kind of selling
everything in the Western hemisphere to us.
Speaker 2: He's like, these ass Thatt's are dog shit. We got
nothing here and I need money for his war.
Speaker 1: So he's like, yeah, here, uh, Louisiana, purchase where do
I sign?
Speaker 2: Take it? Take it TJ. You're good. That's true.
Speaker 1: There's like this just trickle down effect from Haiti.
Speaker 2: So this treaty rips open the door because now it's
no longer just oh, we'll send a few people. And
he has, like, I don't know, skin some beavers and
grow some tobacco. Now it's now the game is on.
Everyone is ready to rip.
Speaker 1: Why did the Portuguese not really kind of fuck around
with North America?
Speaker 2: No one thought anything north of Florida was worth a shit,
Like all the gold and everything that was that was
getting found in South and Central America, so that's where
they went. Yeah, North America was like all right, yeah,
there's like beavers and tobacco or whatever.
Speaker 1: But for Portugal it's like, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: It's a straight line. They thought, not wrongly, I guess.
I guess the best way to put it is the
Central and South America had the most like immediately available
resources that required the least amount of cultivation, you know
what I mean, there was there was no there was
far less of a time investment required. You don't have
to grow anything, you have to build. Like obviously, the
contiguous United States became the most valuable slice of land
in the entire Western hemisphere.
Speaker 1: But at the time, it feels like it just kind
of proves how useless Canada is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I grew up. I mean they got a lot
of oil which was of no use to them.
Speaker 1: That no use that they didn't even know what that was.
Speaker 2: Really well, the one thing Canada had that would have
been of immediate use to to everyone was gold, but
that's I think really remote, like really on the other side.
But timber would have been the one like immediate.
Speaker 1: I believe that's what all the Icelandic Viking settlements went
to Canada for. We gotta find They're like, we need
fucking tree.
Speaker 2: We gotta find a tree man. This boat is broken
and we cannot use moss to patch it up. It's
just not gonna work heat a real tree, God damn it.
The acquisition of Jamaica also had a really funny effect
on on the English It essentially because they do eventually
turn it into a giant sugar plantation m h. It
becomes one of their most profitable colonies. Off sugar alone
completely changes the European diet, which is the European diet
and the British diet in particular, which is now extremely
sugar heavy. After they get Jamaica, bucking.
Speaker 1: That tea tastes so much better, The tea taste better,
Their teeth go to absolute dog shit, start getting fat.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, gotta assume it up to the alcoholism as well,
making rum and stuff like that molasses. Yeah. This, like
the taking of Jamaica accidentally completely fucked up the English diet,
like just made them wildly unhealthier. It was it was
also their primary slave island.
Speaker 1: Like, finally some British food with taste.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like what, I haven't tasted anything before. Food was
just something you put in your mouth and then so
you won't die, not much.
Speaker 1: Make a little porridge in your cottage.
Speaker 2: Finally their food sugar in there, flavor to it. But
if the English.
Speaker 1: Little sweet snack did.
Speaker 2: Not take Jamaica, if Cromwell wasn't like, I want to
do this, I want to be I wantonialism to be
state run. I want the state to start extracting resources.
If he hadn't changed it up from essentially I don't know,
North America being some weird like Silicon Valley situation for entrepreneurs.
The English probably do not set up the thirteen colonies
as we know them. Colonialism as it played out probably
doesn't play out that way. Cromwell and this dogshit expedition
that took Jamaica just because they had nothing else to
take completely changes the course of just world history in general,
but certainly American history as well. Now, speaking of American history.
Speaker 1: What happens to Bill Penn?
Speaker 2: Bill Penn Senior is eventually let out of the Tower
of London and he has his reputation restored. I think
after Cromwell's like, Okay, Jamaica is not so bad. We
could work. We could work with Jamaica.
Speaker 1: He's like looking at the numbers oh all right, yeah,
I guess it's not a fucking useless rock.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not bad boys, good job, sorry about that. And
obviously then he you know, his son goes on to
found oh pa, there go birds.
Speaker 1: Go birds best state in the Union other than Florida,
of course.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, that is I I had no idea
that the conquest of Jamaica was under sort of Oliver
Oliver Cromwell's command. I did not.
Speaker 1: Realize much sense though.
Speaker 2: I did not realize how much Cromwell affected.
Speaker 1: English influence, just the Western hemisphere in general.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really thought his influence.
Speaker 1: Uh it was just murdering Irishman.
Speaker 2: Was yeah, contained to the islands, and yeah, this is
how this is how piracy starts upon yes, yeah, yeah,
you don't have Pirates of the Caribbean without literally without this.
And actually, speaking of Pirates of the Caribbean, one of
the first islands the French take when they're like, oh oh,
we're all good to go was Tortuga, the famed Pirates
of the Caribbean islands.
Speaker 1: Pirate island.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, that is the story of how Jamaica.
Speaker 1: What a time to be a live back then, of all.
Speaker 2: Places, completely changed the course of history for the world
and the Western hemisphere in.
Speaker 1: Particular, just because they needed something to go back with.
Speaker 2: They had to save face and get something.
Speaker 1: It's almost like you go on a trip. You don't
really buy a ton of souvenirs, but you're at the
airport and you forgot to get some of your You're like,
I needed to get something for my mom, I need
to get something for my brother, and you just come
back with like a little trinket from the airport gift shop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it turns out to be a one on a
million beanie baby, but everyone gets rich and then your
whole family murders each other over it. Yeah, but yeah,
that's the sort. What'd you learn today?
Speaker 1: Not really anything.
Speaker 2: You didn't know any of this.
Speaker 1: I kind of did.
Speaker 2: What did you know?
Speaker 1: Maybe not Cromwell, but I knew I knew a lot.
I know a lot about uh Caribbean history. Okay, And
just like that era, I'm very that's kind of my wheelhouse.
You walk to it. No, No, I just I love colonialism.
It's an interesting topic because it's just you trying to
set a name for yourself.
Speaker 2: And the whole pitch is you want to get really rich,
you want to be king because you're not gonna of
a new spot. Look look around at your life here
in the old world sucks. You're not going to you
got a you have a concrete sea. You're not getting
in that.
Speaker 1: I just liked that there were lands to be conquered.
There's no more lands to be conquered.
Speaker 2: Are you weeping? No? Well, look we're building a reactor
on the moon. Make a moon colony.
Speaker 1: I'm not really a space guy. I'd rather go under water.
Oh pass, Those are just my Portuguese roots right there.
Speaker 2: If I had to choose between sea base or moon base,
I'm going moon base every time.
Speaker 1: What about like Antarctica base.
Speaker 2: I would take Antartica base over both of those for sure,
because I would prefer to be on Earth like Antarctica.
The most remote part of Antarctica is safer than the Moon.
So yeah, yeah, I take Antarctica.
Speaker 1: I would definitely choose, like an ocean based colony, underwater
and go under water, but then maybe build up to
make your own man made island island.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, set up, just go underwater, put a nuke
in an underwater volcano, New Island.
Speaker 1: New Island.
Speaker 2: I dot more people do this.
Speaker 1: I mean we're just laying the plans out for him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, someone else, somebody else think we're the da Vinci's here.
We're just throwing them pictures. We're not idea. Yes, we're never.
Speaker 1: Gonna I've always been an idea guy. You not so much.
You're more of a fantasy and innovator squasher.
Speaker 2: I the way you are describing yourself and projecting it
onto me, no is I outrageous?
Speaker 1: Believe in magic? You don't?
Speaker 2: Just not true. Who's today's hitler?
Speaker 1: I'd imagine a lot of people would consider Cromwell's probably
the hitler of this episode, since he's responsible for so
many deaths.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he doesn't. I mean, he doesn't really have
a direct role in this other than telling them to
do it. I kind of think the two commanders.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say Venables Venables Brent for being wildly underachieve
in at Oklahoma.
Speaker 2: Well his runs in the family, I guess, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Venables have just had a long string of
just l's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a genetic for them, just can't get it together,
and then they try to act like it was okay. Yeah,
not Penn.
Speaker 1: I would never disgrace the name of William Penn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you had a sports curse from it for a while.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well he's not on it. It's his son, but
same thing, same thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever, Yeah, that was that was the longest time
Philly curs.
Speaker 1: At Billy Penn. Yeah, we built a skyscraper that was
taller than the city.
Speaker 2: Hall and you didn't win for how many years? Until eight?
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, we kicked the door down with the phil.
Speaker 2: But what was it?
Speaker 1: Was it?
Speaker 2: Eighty one to eight?
Speaker 1: Six Ers and eighty two? Did the eighty one or
ready two? Okay? Oh the Sixers one after the Phillies
did Phillies also won an eighty oh.
Speaker 2: Then that was the one that won was eighty Okay,
Well they didn't win in eighty one then because you only.
Speaker 1: Have two World Series eighty and two thousand and eight. Yeah,
but yeah, the Sixers one most malone.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's either I don't care about NBA history at all,
that's fine, yeah, but I get it the only I mean,
I ride for the Saint Louis Hawks for sure, but
you know what about the battle Hawks. No, every time
I see it, one of my friends posting, like, dude,
battle Hawks Eason cover it up. I'm just like you,
fucking loser. You don't care about that.
Speaker 1: Shut up, just shut up.
Speaker 2: I hate you. Just shut up. There's no way you
like that. There's no fucking way. Yeah, I've fuck the
battle Hawks. I don't give a flying fuck about the
battle Hawks. But yeah, that's all we got for today.
Check out the Softcore History Patreon Patreon dot com slash
Softcore History. Two extra episodes a week at three year
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Jester on Rob Fox.
Speaker 1: You just got Saucer