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Speaker 1: Okay, So for all these years I've said, Hey, if

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you're looking for a great podcast, just google me Arrowcollins,

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and then all of a sudden you find yourself on

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a streaming platform and can't figure out where anything is.

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He said, he was talking to this person. But okay,

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So what I've done is I've centralized it. Now Arrow

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dot net A R R O E dot net, all

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seventeen of my podcasts are up there for you to enjoy. Hello,

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and good morning, Mary Anne. How are you doing today?

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Speaker 2: Hello? Arrow, I'm doing okay so far.

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Speaker 1: My god, I love your energy. Holy moly. I mean,

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how do you step into that role each day? Is it?

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Because you've totally believe that when you come into this

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day expect creativity.

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Speaker 2: The first thing I do to reorient my brain is

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become queen on spelling b I don't I don't stop

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until I'm queen, and then once I'm queen, I can

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reign over my day.

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Speaker 1: I've been really anxious to share a conversation with you

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because one of the things that I've put so many

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years of study into is how is it that creates

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people eventually make their way to writing, to painting, to

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doing music. It's almost like it's always been there, but

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we're allowing those other things to stand in the way

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until we find the power of the page and a

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writing instrument.

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Speaker 2: It's really true. You have to knock down a bunch

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of barriers that crop up in front of you. You know,

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it's I mean, in my case, you know, I'm a

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first generation daughter of Italian immigrants, grew up seven miles

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outside of Boston and a little enclave where everybody was

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either Italian, Irish or French Canadian, and all the Italians

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were from the same village in Italy. So it was

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a place that had a lot of storytelling that I mean,

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you know, fed into my career eventually. But the thing

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was at my period and I'm old you were expected

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to basically marry a guy from the neighborhood, having kids

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and not go to college, and you know what I mean,

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So there were it had to begin with breaking down

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those barriers.

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Speaker 1: How did you handle that? Because I mean I went

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through the same thing up in Billings, Montana, and I

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ended up moving two five hundred miles from home just

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so I could get on with my own life.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I ended up well, I moved into Boston, first

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and went to UMass Boston because it was all I

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could afford. And the good sisters at my Catholic school

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would not give any endorsements for a non Catholic college,

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so they wouldn't give any recommendations. So I had to

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get in on my own and pay for it myself,

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and then I moved to New York. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Well you just described Christina the astonishing because I

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mean in Boston at a Catholic school and it's a whoa.

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So you pulled from your own chapters.

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Speaker 2: Then totally, totally, I really did. However, I mean there's

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a lot fictional in this too. There's like, there's there's

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an old lady that she becomes friends with who was

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an exotic dancer at the Old Howard Stripper And this

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is someone I wish I had known growing up but

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did not. And she meets her because the nun says,

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all right, who knows who sings and who dances? All right, Christina,

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you're a tap dancer, so and so you're a singer.

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We're all going to do corporal works of mercy at

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Saint Lucy's Home for the elderly blind. And when she

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gets there, the floor is carpeted, which is kind of

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a metaphor for my acting career, I think sometimes. But

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she makes friends with this exotic old lady there, and

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she stays friends with her until she goes off and

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does her thing. So there's a lot that didn't happen

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in my life, of course, like meeting a really sweet

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nun that didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: And yet I'm so inspired with the exotic older woman.

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And the reason why is because, you know, if I

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were the medicine man of a name and I walked

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down looking for who was going to replace me in

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that particular Native American nation, it would be the exotic

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because they totally get it. They understand the energies that

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move through them and how to use them to help

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others make you know, a happier day.

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Speaker 2: That's really true. I agree. I think you're absolutely right.

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Oh well, it all comes from empathy, doesn't it, which

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is severely lacking right now in our society.

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Speaker 1: Did you find yourself in that group of people walking

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into a conversation just to be the listener, Mary Anne?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I've been a lurker all my life, and that's

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how you know you're a writer. You know, I was

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this lurking kid just outside of which is how I

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remember entire conversations from the grown ups. You know.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting because I mean, I mean, I'm at that

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age now where people go, don't you remember when we

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talked about this. I'm sure we did, you know, I can't.

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Speaker 2: No, No, that's true. I forget much, but I remember

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delibly entire conversations from my mother, who was still quoted

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today by my friends. You know, because she was such

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a character. I wrote an entire book about her. She

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was an amazing woman. And yeah, I agree with you totally.

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Speaker 1: So when you write a book like that, only because

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I struggle with with my side of the story of

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a certain person, because that's our interpretation, and I've always believed.

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I want to read the book one day that has

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all the children in the family writing a story about

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their mother, and to show you how every one of

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them have a different experience.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're just you know what you're doing.

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You're quoting the dedication from my second member of Boss Up.

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You are quoting it. I said to my brother and sister,

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each of us from a different source, each of us

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from the same source, but all of us with a

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different story to tell.

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Speaker 1: So true, you go so true. So what do you

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do when you set your current book Christina the Estoni

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in Boston nineteen sixties, Because I tried to do that

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with my book Halloween seventy eight, and I literally had

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to do so much research to make sure that I

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had to do right. Oh my god, there are a

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lot of people out there that will call you out

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in a second.

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Speaker 2: And even if you lived it, you're not going to

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remember every part of it. You're not going to And

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so yeah, I had to do a lot of research.

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And that's like, that is like walking a tightrope when

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you do research, I think, I mean, you could fall

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off and lose the whole day, Like, oh my god,

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listen to this. It's already woo woo Ginsburg on woms

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you know, it's like no, no, it's really. That was

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the most difficult part for me was the research, not

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falling off that tightrope.

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Speaker 1: And you hope to God that you can read your

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handwriting when you go in there and you do that research,

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because I mean, man, you're writing so quickly because you

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know you've got a lot to do.

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Speaker 2: It's true, It's absolutely true. I can't read my own

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writing either.

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Speaker 1: I make it up. I mean, I've even tried to

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take you to chat GPT and it says, go away,

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I really can't deal with you today.

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Speaker 2: But despite all of that, it was really fun to

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go back there too. That's the part that's so you know,

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tempting about researches. It's it's really fun to go there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But I'm that person that likes to live in

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the presence, so to you know, to trap myself in

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the past like that. You know, it's like, Okay, am

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I what am I really supposed to be doing here?

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I realize I'm supposed to be writing a book, But

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is there a bigger calling here that I'm supposed to

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be learning something?

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Speaker 2: Huh, Well, I'm not worried about that. I just felt

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driven to write this book. I'm really not worried about it.

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I felt driven to write this because I felt like

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it's really shunny. It's really it's something we're all missing

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right now, which is, you know, hearing about a tight

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family and you know the insanity that can come from adolescence. Adolescence.

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You know, I'm really interested in people of different ages

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reading this book book Christina the Astonishing, because I think

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adolescence plays across the generations. It doesn't matter what generation

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you're reading about. The feelings are always the same, you know,

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defining yourself.

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Speaker 1: I know some pretty old guy sixty five up to

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eighty ninety years old who have some adolescent problems. And

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it's fun to sit there and say, I don't want

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to sound like your dad right now, dude, but you

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need to kind of pipe down right now.

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Speaker 2: It's really true, It's really true. Those things will persist, yes.

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Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things that you are

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not afraid to talk about different things in other words,

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I mean, you go a little melancholy, But I love

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that because you give us that opportunity to feel texture.

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And that's what's missing from so many books is that

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you want to stay up here on this high. You

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want people to feel good, you want them to figure

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out the cliffhanger, blah blah blah, and all of a sudden,

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here comes to melancholy and go now you're talking. Now

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you've got my attention.

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Speaker 2: Well, hell, I mean, let's face it, there is no

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adolescence without that kind of deep going inside yourself and

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like brooding kind of thing. I remember, I mean I

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spent hours in my room listening to Dylan, which drove

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my you know, it made my mother's head explode every

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time she heard his voice, so, you know.

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Speaker 1: And yet today I find more respect for that man,

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and I can see it in so many different shapes

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of music from you know, I'm just everywhere, and it's like,

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oh my god, we lived it. We are the luckiest

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generation on this planet to have seen it all, really

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not worried about it.

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Speaker 2: It's really true. It's really true. I agree. I mean

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that's what It was folk music that actually alerted me

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to civil rights and all you know what I mean, feminism,

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all of that. It was folk music that led me there,

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you know, then started listening to Dylan, started listening to

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Joan Biez, you know, wishing I was old enough to

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go to Club forty seven here in Boston, you know,

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where all the folkies were. But yeah, I mean they

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led me on that road. So it was a good thing.

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Speaker 1: And what would you have done if you would have

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gone to that club and there sits a nun as

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you walk in, she's in there. Guys, you know, in

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their own little secret worlds they want to go to.

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Speaker 2: Let me tell you something, I wrote an article for

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Konya Senti, which is here in Boston w b R

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about the nuns on the bus, because as much as

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I was like horrified by, you know, the nuns that

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I had coming up, I really respect these women that

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were going out and fighting for the marginalized, you know

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what I mean, and getting yelled at by you know,

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the guys in red coats at the cardinals, saying like no, no, no,

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you have to pay more attention to reproductive you know,

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shutting down reproductive rights, and they're like, no, we're feeding people.

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So I wrote a thing about how the nuns if

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you were talked out of turn. I don't know if

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you remember this. You were called bold. You are bold,

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miss Leoni, and I said, I want to tell these

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nuns you are bold, and I'm here for it. You know,

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you're fighting for marginalized people. So and one part of

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me does feel sympathy for those women because our classes,

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I don't know about you, Our classes were almost fifty kids. Yep,

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that's him keeping fifty eight year olds. I mean not easy,

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not easy, right.

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Speaker 1: That's where I learned how to hide. And so therefore,

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you know, because I would hide in the back of

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the room, where I would hide in different groups, and

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that gave me a writing opportunities where I could sit

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down and start penciling anything I could out into piece

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of paper because if you can't see me, I'm not there.

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Speaker 2: The ses yes, And were you tall enough to be

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at the back of the room because I was always

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in the first row, which was terrible.

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Speaker 1: Until I was like small. I was the shortest kid

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in school until a senior, and all of a sudden

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I was wearing high waters and shirts that were too

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small for me, and I just did not understand.

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Speaker 2: That that had to be strange. Shooting up like that.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's scary as all can be. And of course

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now I'm shrinking, and which really I'm going wait a second,

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how did I shoot up that high? And now I'm shrinking?

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Speaker 2: Come on, I am too. I am shrinking.

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Speaker 1: Also, please do not move. There's more with Mary Ann

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leon I mean up next the name of her book,

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Christina the Astonishing for every age group. Trust me, you're

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going to love this. We are back with Mary Anne

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Leone the Boston accent inside the paragraphs because I'm so

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fascinated with that, and that's inspired by Mark Twain who

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said use your accent, put it inside what you write

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and I'm going, oh.

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Speaker 2: I never got to use it in any of my

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acting until I did Clear History, where I cannot tell

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you the delight of being in a ditch and being

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able to screen where words at Larry David in my

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own home accent. But I never actually got to use

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that accent. And in fact, when I was cast in

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The Sopranos, it was almost it was even more difficult

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because there's a similarity with the Jersey accent in that

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they opened end the vowels, you know, christopha like that,

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and that's the same as as New England, but they

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their vowels are different. They would say talk or you

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know what I meanstead of talk well the way we would.

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Speaker 1: It's so fascinating that down here in the South, the

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one impersonation that I really hear a lot of lately

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is are people trying to do the Boston accent. And

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I don't know if it's because of the Patriots or

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even the seventy six ers or what is going on

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in the East Coast over there where everybody's trying to

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impersonate that Eastern accent. And it's like, because I mean,

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the Southern accent was the one thing that everybody went to.

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But I think people said, oh, that's a Southern accent.

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That didn't sound too smart.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, But the Boston accent is difficult, I think,

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and I think the actress. I think actors live in

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fear of it. I thought Chris nailed it in the town.

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But I also remember, you know this great story about

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Benedict Cumberbatch, who is a starling boy. He played Chris's

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son in Augusto, sh County, and I remember he was

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coming in to do The Departed here and when we

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were we were I was mentored by this woman Mary Simosa,

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who had twin daughters with severe CP. Our son Jesse

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our son, Jesse had cerebral palsy, our late son, and

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she really really helped me get him included. It was

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a two year battle, blah blah blah. But Anastasia, who

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graduated from Georgetown Pre Law, and this is a girl

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who uses a wheelchair, has severe cerebral palsy, had a

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full boat to London School of Economics. So she calls

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me up and says, Marianne, I'm going to the BAFTA

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Awards and could you tell Benedict Cumberbatch to just come

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over and say hi to me. And I said, okay,

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And I said, you hold up a sign that says

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Chris Cooper is my godfather, and I'll tell Benedict to

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come over to you. So we call Benedict, We tell

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him you go over and say hi to our friend there.

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And he says, oh, no, I've got it. I'm not

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going to the baptist. Would she have a drink with me?

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So he takes her for a drink. You could hear

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her screaming from over here. And not only did he

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not talk down to her, he was fantastic. You know.

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He wasn't like I'm being nice to the person with

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the you know, he was fantastic. So I said, when

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you come to Boston, we will pick you up at

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your hotel. I will make you a fantastic dinner and

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I will go line by line with you for your

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Boston accent. Because I appreciated so much what he did.

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What a what a good guy he is.

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Speaker 1: I love that about about actors and actresses as well

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as creative people. Is that it you know, it's just

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one of those things that we're so willing to share

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with people. If you just want to accept it, don't

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don't take advantage of it. Just accept the moment.

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Speaker 2: Like this moment here, it was so beautiful, really beautiful,

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and he spent a great day with us, and so

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we had a really good tell.

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Speaker 1: Well, that right there is future information for a book

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that you're going to do some other time in the future,

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because I mean you you can light that story up

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and build upon that whole thing and make several chapters

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just out of that one moment.

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Speaker 2: It's really true. Well, I've thought about, you know, about

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our travels together, mine and Chris's, and how fun it

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would be to write about that, you know, because we've

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been everywhere, and some of it traveling with a kid

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in a wheelchair. So it's been pretty amazing.

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Speaker 1: So, now, how do you do your writing discipline if

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you're constantly traveling, Because I'm I'm I'm pretty much a

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writing snob. If I'm not putting pin to paper by

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seven am, we got a problem.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm not. I I am like different in

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that way in that I don't feel like I need

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to ruminate for a long time before I put it

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on paper. I really do, and then I spew it

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onto paper. Late at night when I'm completely out of

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my mind, and I don't edit until the next morning,

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you know. So my habit is writing late at night

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and edit the next morning.

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Speaker 1: I call that fermenting. You ferment because there's a separation

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between the writer and the receiver.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's right, that's right, And I don't want to

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What I don't want to do is be that person

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who's self censoring, you know, and that really hurts everything.

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If you've got that critic over your left shoulder saying like,

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don't write that, that's stupid, you know, so I really

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want to escape that.

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Speaker 1: Well, then do you turn it into a wineglass moment

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where you kind of like jot down a little note

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and you say, okay, I just I want to go

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back to this page. I'm going to have a glass

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of wine first of all. Then I'll come back and

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I'll readjust it if I need to, because I'll have

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the courage at that point in time to take a chance.

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Speaker 2: That's right, that's absolutely right. Wow, yep.

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Speaker 1: Now, when you write, do you foresee yourself as the

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actress on that page or do you have to step

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back and be the director?

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't do either of those. It's like,

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I think I use the same discipline I use as

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an actor, which is like to be in the moment

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and tell the truth. If you're not in the moment,

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if you're not telling the truth, it's not good. If

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you're self conscious about your writing, just like if you're

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self conscious as an actor, it's not good. You can't

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you can't be self conscious about it. You have to

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be in the moment of truth, you know, and tell

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the truth.

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Speaker 1: Mary, And this is this is the type of book though,

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that when when you read Christina the Astonishing now and

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let's say you come back to it two to five

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years from now, I have this feeling inside my heart

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you're gonna say I wrote this, Oh my god, this

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is really good. I mean, do you ever have those

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moments where you just go, who wrote this book?

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Speaker 2: Wow? Okay, you know what. I don't want to sound

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like I think I'm great, but I have had a

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few moments like that. I've also had moments where I've said, oh, yeah,

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that should that shouldn't have happened, that should not have

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been published. Yeah. Yeah. So I have equal of both

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of them.

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Speaker 1: I will say, So, now, what is your next step

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with this? Because we're talking about a thirteen year old

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adolescent that I mean, we're I mean, people are going

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to grow up with Christina here, and to me, that's that,

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to me is what it's all about, because I mean,

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we all grew up with Harry Potter, we all grew

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up with the Twilight series, we all grew up with

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the Sopranos. We'll see the thing about it, You see

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how we do that? We have all been trained to

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grow up with our favorite characters on TV as well

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as reading books.

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Speaker 2: Now, it's true, it's absolutely true. But you know, I

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think that the Christina thing is that she doesn't stay

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thirteen in the book. Actually we see her go up

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to her early twenties in this So do you know

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how did she besk in me? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Sorry, I was gonna say, how did you deal with that?

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Because my daughter's forty eight years old and in my

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mind she's still fourteen. There's no way she's forty eight

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years old. I just do not believe it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I still remember very clearly what it was like

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to be in the early twenties, you know, I really

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remember that the moment. What I remember is that every

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other moment, it's that imposter syndrome written large. When you're

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in your twenties, you just feel like, am I really

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doing this? Am I really an actor? Am I really this?

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Am I really that? I mean? That's what I remember

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is who am I? You know? Just am I? And

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so that once you're aware of that, you can cling

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to that and you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I do and I do have to ask you. So

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you became an actress because and let me put it

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this way, because the writer in you wanted to see

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what words on a page sounded like coming through your

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vocal cords.

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Speaker 2: No, but I did both. It's like I was a

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writer and one of it, one of the means of

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writing was a means toward getting an agent. It's like

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I remember hooking up with three friends when we were

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new to New York City and thinking, you know what,

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you can't get an agent to come and watch Macbeth

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on Avenue D for the ninetieth time, but you can

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get them to come and have a drink at a

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comedy club. So we wrote Sketch Comedy and it was

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the scariest thing I've ever done, which is to go

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and do these comedy clubs. And after that, I had

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no fear of audition, because there is nothing like a

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New York audience at midnight, you know, and going up

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in front of them and doing and then you've got

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the fourth wall up, so if you are heckled, you

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can't even say anything. So yeah, that was an incredible

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growth experience.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. And I know we're out of time,

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but I love that fourth wall when somebody tries to

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break it and we're up there with that microphone and

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we go, hmmm, it's just that little sound that we make.

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I'll deal with you later.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. Man.

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Speaker 1: You got to come back to this show anytime in

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the future, Mary, and the door is always going to

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be open for you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Erro. I'm very pleased. I had a really

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great time. You ask really good questions.

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Speaker 1: Will you'd be brilliant today?

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Speaker 2: Okay, thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Thank you,