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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Path Went Chile for part two

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<v Speaker 1>of our series about the death of Kevin show Walter. Robin,

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<v Speaker 1>do you want to catch everyone up on what we

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<v Speaker 1>talked about in our previous episode?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, since the holidays are almost here, I decided to

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<v Speaker 2>do a select a Christmas Eve theme mystery which took

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<v Speaker 2>place all the way back in nineteen seventy three in

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<v Speaker 2>the town of New London, Connecticut, and the victim was

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<v Speaker 2>twenty year old Kevin show Walter. He had spent the

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<v Speaker 2>evening with a girl named Deborah and she was driving

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<v Speaker 2>him back to his own parked car, but then they

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<v Speaker 2>got a flat tire and had to stop in a

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<v Speaker 2>residential neighborhood. And then Kevin got out to change the tire,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was a poorly lit area, but while Debra

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't looking, a car just happened to pass by and

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<v Speaker 2>hit him and then just sped away without even stopping.

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<v Speaker 2>Kevin went died pretty quickly, but even though witnesses in

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<v Speaker 2>the neighborhood were called seeing lights, no one actually got

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<v Speaker 2>a good look at the getaway vehicle. Kevin's mother, Lucille

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<v Speaker 2>show Walter, tried to open up her own independent investigation

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<v Speaker 2>because the police really wouldn't do much of anything. They

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<v Speaker 2>pretty much told her that the case would never be solved.

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<v Speaker 2>They wound up losing pieces of evidence, and Lucille pretty

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<v Speaker 2>much found out a reason why when she learned that

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<v Speaker 2>the town's former mayor named Harvey Maluv, who was one

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<v Speaker 2>of the more prominent and wealthiest citizens in New London,

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<v Speaker 2>became the prime suspect. And the biggest issue was that Malove.

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<v Speaker 2>He was originally very supportive and nice to Lucille, but

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<v Speaker 2>he gave a story that seemed to contradict all the

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<v Speaker 2>other witnesses at the scene because he claimed he had

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<v Speaker 2>driven by himself and saw a man and a woman

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<v Speaker 2>near another car who soon fled the scene. But this

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<v Speaker 2>was contradicted by all the other witnesses, and they seemed

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<v Speaker 2>to appear that Malub was just coming up with this

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<v Speaker 2>story in case someone had saw him at the scene

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<v Speaker 2>because he was likely the hit and run driver. So

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<v Speaker 2>they would have a long grand jury proceedings, and at

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<v Speaker 2>the end the judge said that even though there was

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<v Speaker 2>not enough evidence for a criminal prosecution, I do think

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<v Speaker 2>that Harvey Mallub was likely driver of the hit run vehicle,

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<v Speaker 2>but things got complicated about a year later after the

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<v Speaker 2>statute of limitations expired, when a man named Paul Hanson

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<v Speaker 2>came forward and claimed that he believed he was the

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<v Speaker 2>one who had struck Kevin, saying that he was very

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<v Speaker 2>drunk when he was driving on Christmas Eve he thought

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<v Speaker 2>he hit something but wasn't sure, but did not find

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<v Speaker 2>out until the following morning that Kevin had been killed,

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<v Speaker 2>and he feared that he was responsible. Had another preliminary hearing,

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<v Speaker 2>but the judge thought that the evidence really didn't support

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<v Speaker 2>the idea that Hanson did this, and the case fads

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<v Speaker 2>from the spotlight. But then in two thousand and five,

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<v Speaker 2>Hanson died by suicide and left behind a note where

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<v Speaker 2>he still took responsibility for the hit and run. And

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<v Speaker 2>by this point Harvey Malive had passed away, So there's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of controversy over whether Maliv or Hanson or

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<v Speaker 2>someone else could have been the hit and run driver,

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<v Speaker 2>And because so much evidence had gone missing over the years,

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<v Speaker 2>it's really hard to conclusively prove what happened after all

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<v Speaker 2>these years, and that's why the case is still unsolved

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<v Speaker 2>to this day. So this is definitely a very tragic

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<v Speaker 2>story for everyone involved. And I don't think I've ever

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<v Speaker 2>seen a hit and run case Gardner as much notoriety

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<v Speaker 2>as this one. It is dragged on for decades. But

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<v Speaker 2>what's particularly sad is how preventable this whole situation could

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<v Speaker 2>have been. When Judge dany He released his report about

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<v Speaker 2>the grand jury investigation, he actually stated that Kevin placed

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<v Speaker 2>himself in a dangerous situation by changing the tire in

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<v Speaker 2>a crouch position on a dark street and switching off

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<v Speaker 2>the vehicle's parking lights. That's not to say that Dana

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<v Speaker 2>Hay was victim blaming or anything, but he believed that

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<v Speaker 2>the driver of the vehicle who hit Kevin genuinely did

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<v Speaker 2>not see him and might not have even realized they

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<v Speaker 2>hit him when they drove off. Given the circumstances, dan

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<v Speaker 2>He did not think the driver was criminally negligent, and

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<v Speaker 2>provided that they were an intoxicated or recklessly speeding of

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<v Speaker 2>the time, they probably never would have faced any charges

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<v Speaker 2>or jail time if they had just turned themselves in

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<v Speaker 2>and confessed right after the accident took place. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>the driver might have eventually been found had the new

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<v Speaker 2>London Police Department not done such terrible work, and Judge

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<v Speaker 2>Dannyhees's report was very critical of their investigation and their

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<v Speaker 2>dismissive attitude towards Lucille's showalter. I mean, this wasn't a

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<v Speaker 2>case where a young person's death was officially ruled a

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<v Speaker 2>suicide or an accident and their parent was screaming foul

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<v Speaker 2>play because they had a hard time dealing with the grief.

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<v Speaker 2>It's pretty cut and dried that Kevin was fatally struck

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<v Speaker 2>by a vehicle and the driver just took off, And

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<v Speaker 2>regardless of whether or not there was intent, a hit

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<v Speaker 2>and run is still crime and whoever was responsible should

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<v Speaker 2>be forced to answer for it. You can't just tell

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<v Speaker 2>the victim's mother, well, this is probably never going to

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<v Speaker 2>be solved only a few weeks later and leave it

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<v Speaker 2>at that. Now, as critical as Judge Danny he was

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<v Speaker 2>towards the New London PD, he did not actually believe

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<v Speaker 2>they were orchestrating a deliberate cover up and thought their

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<v Speaker 2>investigation was the result of incompetence rather than knallice. But

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<v Speaker 2>given that the prime suspect, Harvey Malov, was a former

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<v Speaker 2>mayor who gave some high ranking police officials or jobs,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not hard to believe that there might have been

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<v Speaker 2>a conspiracy to sweep things under the rug.

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<v Speaker 3>I think one of the things that's really hurtful for

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<v Speaker 3>his mother, like you said, is that she was just dismissed.

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<v Speaker 3>And she was also really kind of in her mind

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<v Speaker 3>supported by one of the main suspects. When Harvey Malav

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<v Speaker 3>was so supportive of her, and then come to find

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<v Speaker 3>out he's one of the people they name as a

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<v Speaker 3>main suspect. It seems like you were conn at the

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<v Speaker 3>whole time, like that even grief support for you was

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<v Speaker 3>fake and manipulated and political in nature. And so I

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<v Speaker 3>think her desire to say, you know, I'm not even

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<v Speaker 3>saying that my son was murdered or that I want

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<v Speaker 3>justice for a homicide. I want someone to tell me

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<v Speaker 3>what happened and be held accountable for a hit and run.

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<v Speaker 3>And if they were transparent, I guarantee you his mother

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<v Speaker 3>would have said, they're just as much a victim as

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<v Speaker 3>my son was. They took someone's life that night, not knowing.

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<v Speaker 3>It's tragic for both families. But here she's almost been

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<v Speaker 3>played by everybody.

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<v Speaker 1>That I feel like she was re traumatized, being portrayed

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<v Speaker 1>as like this awful woman in the dramatization or the

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<v Speaker 1>show that was based on this.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, we mentioned our last episode that they did

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<v Speaker 2>a episode of the popular TV series lou Grant where

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<v Speaker 2>they had a fictional story about a teenage son getting

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<v Speaker 2>killed and a hit and run accident, and it turns

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<v Speaker 2>out like a promened judge was responsible. And I know

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<v Speaker 2>that Lucille was quite upset because the mother character in

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<v Speaker 2>that episode was treated was portrayed as this very shrill, rude,

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<v Speaker 2>and angry person, when everyone who knew Lucille show Walter

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<v Speaker 2>personally said she was not like that at all. And

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<v Speaker 2>this show pretty much pulled a law in order and

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<v Speaker 2>then exploited a real life tragedy and pretty much re

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<v Speaker 2>traumatized her all over again because by that point, I

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<v Speaker 2>think the statute of limitations that expires, So Lucille had

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<v Speaker 2>pretty much reached the conclusion that no one was ever

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<v Speaker 2>going to go to jail or faced justice for my

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<v Speaker 2>son's death. And now I'm seeing a fictional TV show

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<v Speaker 2>paint me in a bad light.

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<v Speaker 1>And here's another issue. Well, the grand jury investigation did

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<v Speaker 1>bring Lucille show Walter some semblance of peace, it did

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<v Speaker 1>not provide full closure, and there was controversy over the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that Judge Danihe publicly named Harvey Malov as the

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<v Speaker 1>probable driver of the hit and run vehicle. This mostly

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<v Speaker 1>stems from the fact that Donahe used the word probable conclusive,

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<v Speaker 1>as Malv and his supporters argued that if the investigation

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<v Speaker 1>could not conclusively prove that Malove was a driver and

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<v Speaker 1>he wasn't going to be prosecuted for the crime, then

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<v Speaker 1>they should not have released his name to the public.

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<v Speaker 1>If Malv was innocent, then this caused a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>unwarranted damage to his reputation, and he did bring up

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<v Speaker 1>a valid point. A grand jury investigation is not the

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<v Speaker 1>same thing as a trial, so he did not get

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<v Speaker 1>the opportunity to present a case for his innocence, which

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<v Speaker 1>would have occurred if he had actually been charged with

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<v Speaker 1>the crime. It's kind of a catch twenty two and

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<v Speaker 1>that he spared the ordeal of a criminal trial. But

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<v Speaker 1>unless he can find evidence pointing to another perpetrator, there

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<v Speaker 1>really isn't anything that he can do to clear his name.

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<v Speaker 1>And when you take into account that another man, Paul Hansen,

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<v Speaker 1>would later confess to the crime, then this is clearly

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<v Speaker 1>not a cut and dried case, A second grand jury

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<v Speaker 1>investigation concluded that other than his own confession, there was

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<v Speaker 1>no compelling evidence to suggest that Paul Hanson was responsible

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<v Speaker 1>for the hit and run, and while there wasn't any

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<v Speaker 1>hard evidence to link Harvey malv to the scene, he

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much implicated himself by sharing his story about being there,

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<v Speaker 1>which was contradicted by seven eyewitnesses. But since the New

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<v Speaker 1>London PD lost or badly mishandled most of the evidence,

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<v Speaker 1>it probably would have been impossible to conclusively link anyone

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<v Speaker 1>to the accident scene, and the.

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<v Speaker 3>Family was given so much hope throughout. I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 3>almost this she's getting jerked around, even in the pursuit

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<v Speaker 3>of justice when she's told in one scenario where you

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<v Speaker 3>were pretty sure that it was this person, well, that

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't bring you any kind of peace because if you're

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<v Speaker 3>pretty sure, that doesn't mean it's definitely him, and there's

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<v Speaker 3>no repercussions for someone that you're quote pretty sure was

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<v Speaker 3>the one who hit your son and killed him. But

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<v Speaker 3>also when you look at the way they handled the evidence,

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<v Speaker 3>it's as if they didn't care that it was a

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<v Speaker 3>hit and run, that it was just some car accident, right,

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<v Speaker 3>and that they didn't need to be looking for anyone else.

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<v Speaker 3>How do you lose evidence when in something that isn't

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<v Speaker 3>really open and shut. There's someone who hit a kid

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<v Speaker 3>and took his life. You need to be exploring who

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<v Speaker 3>that was because it shows somebody who doesn't have a

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<v Speaker 3>conscience to say, hey, I hit this kid. I need

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<v Speaker 3>to tell somebody, I need to get him help. They

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<v Speaker 3>drove off so likely they were intoxicated. In my opinion,

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<v Speaker 3>they didn't want to get in trouble and that's why

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<v Speaker 3>they sped away. I just feel so bad for his mother.

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<v Speaker 3>She was never going to get quote closure, She's never

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<v Speaker 3>going to get justice because one closure I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>exists really unless you can bring their loved one back.

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<v Speaker 3>But the justice part man. Everywhere she turns, it seems

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<v Speaker 3>like they're making it worse instead of supporting her and

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<v Speaker 3>making any kind of peace in her life.

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<v Speaker 2>And I know Locilla was kind of at the point

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<v Speaker 2>where she's like, well, I've come to terms with the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that no one is actually going to serve time

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<v Speaker 2>in print is in for killing my son. But at

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<v Speaker 2>least the fact that Harvey Malof has been named publicly

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<v Speaker 2>is providing a bit of accountability and it's an acknowledgment

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<v Speaker 2>of who did something wrong here, but I'm sure it

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<v Speaker 2>must have been an ordeal for her when we have

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<v Speaker 2>this other guy, Paul Hanson, coming forward and he's confessing

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<v Speaker 2>to the crime, so it leaves so much ambiguity about

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<v Speaker 2>who the real perpetrator was. And to know that because

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<v Speaker 2>the statute of limitation has expired, no one is going

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<v Speaker 2>to be charged with this crime and you may just

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<v Speaker 2>never know without conclusive evidence who really did this.

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<v Speaker 4>I feel so bad for Lucille.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like there's all these men, because all of

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<v Speaker 1>these people that we're talking about who are related to

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<v Speaker 1>here are men, and I feel like they're all trying

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<v Speaker 1>to either manipulate her, denigrade her character, misrepresent her, or

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<v Speaker 1>ignore her. And it just feels like, through this process

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<v Speaker 1>of trying to get answers what happened to her son,

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<v Speaker 1>she's become a thorn in the side of a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of different individuals, and it seems to be to her detriment.

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<v Speaker 1>Like you think that this woman fighting for her son,

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<v Speaker 1>that the people in law enforcement would see this and

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<v Speaker 1>they would have just empathy and compassion for her and

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<v Speaker 1>they would want to be fighting for her. But it

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<v Speaker 1>just doesn't seem like we're seeing this. We're seeing people

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<v Speaker 1>who are losing evidence, and Lucille just seems to be

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<v Speaker 1>more of a pain to them than a mother who's

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<v Speaker 1>grieving and has experienced this enormous loss.

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<v Speaker 3>I think she became a squeaky wheel and it frustrated

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<v Speaker 3>them because in their minds, they did everything they could,

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<v Speaker 3>and this is a mother who's clearly frustrated with them

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<v Speaker 3>and upset. And I think it's almost a pride ego

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<v Speaker 3>thing that hey, listen, lady, we did the best we could.

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<v Speaker 3>Back off, and they're not dealing with just a political

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<v Speaker 3>issue or a simple case. It's someone's life and someone's son.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's almost that ego pride got in the way

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<v Speaker 3>of being able to have compassion. I think you see

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<v Speaker 3>that from time to time with different cases we talk about.

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<v Speaker 2>Even though there's a lot of information out there about

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<v Speaker 2>Harvey Malluve's background, there's virtually nothing about Paul Hanson. All

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<v Speaker 2>we know about him is that he came forward, confessed

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<v Speaker 2>to the hint and run, was cleared by a grand

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<v Speaker 2>jury investigation, but then completed suicide and left behind a

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<v Speaker 2>confession letter. In two thousand and five, since he took

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<v Speaker 2>his own life, we can reasonably assume that Hanson was

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<v Speaker 2>a troubled individual, but other than that, there's nothing to

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<v Speaker 2>go on. It's certainly possible that, even if he was innocent,

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<v Speaker 2>Hanson could have been driving drunk on Christmas Eve in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy three and legitimately had no memory of anything

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<v Speaker 2>that happened that night, and when he heard about a

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<v Speaker 2>fatal hit and run and notice damage to his car

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<v Speaker 2>the following morning, he may have feared the worst even

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<v Speaker 2>though he did not remember anything. Of course, it's awfully

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<v Speaker 2>convenient that Hanson wouldn't come forward until after the statute

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<v Speaker 2>of limitations it expired, and if that's where his story

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<v Speaker 2>had ended, then I have little doubt that he was

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<v Speaker 2>not the driver. But the fact that Hanson would still

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<v Speaker 2>take responsibility for the incident in a suicide note over

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<v Speaker 2>thirty years later makes it impossible for me to discount

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<v Speaker 2>him completely. Since I know nothing about what Hanson's personal

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<v Speaker 2>life was like in two thousand and five, I have

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<v Speaker 2>no idea if the hit and run played any role

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<v Speaker 2>in his decision to complete suicide, or if he decided

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<v Speaker 2>to take his own life for completely different reasons. He

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<v Speaker 2>might have just mentioned the hit and run in his

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<v Speaker 2>note for attention, or perhaps he was still racked with

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<v Speaker 2>guilt about the whole thing three decades later. One thing

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<v Speaker 2>I am certain about is that if Hanson was the driver,

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<v Speaker 2>then I don't think the New London PD would have

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<v Speaker 2>orchestrated a cover up to protect him, since it doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>sound like he was a person with connections, and he

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<v Speaker 2>probably wouldn't have popped up on the radar as a

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<v Speaker 2>suspect if he didn't confess. So if there really was

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<v Speaker 2>a cover up, I'm sure the police would be more

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<v Speaker 2>inclined to orchestrate one for a wealthy, prominent citizen like

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<v Speaker 2>Harvey malliv So.

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<v Speaker 3>Like you said, we really don't know to what extent

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<v Speaker 3>this hit and run could have actually been a factor

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<v Speaker 3>in his decision to complete suicide, but the fact that

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<v Speaker 3>it ends up in the letter means that it does

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00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:57.440
<v Speaker 3>carry some kind of significance. That's his last letter to family, friends,

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00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:02.519
<v Speaker 3>loved ones, and he mentions it. What's really troubling is

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<v Speaker 3>that I believe he had to be incredibly intoxicated that

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<v Speaker 3>night and driving he hits something, wakes up the next

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<v Speaker 3>morning and sees that a kid has been killed, and

286
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<v Speaker 3>he says, oh, my god.

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<v Speaker 2>Did I do that?

288
00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:19.759
<v Speaker 3>And I think, over time, with mental health declines, you

289
00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:23.320
<v Speaker 3>could convince yourself that that is exactly what happened. That

290
00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:26.320
<v Speaker 3>you killed a kid and took him away from his mother,

291
00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:28.720
<v Speaker 3>you took him away from his friends in his future.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think he could have convinced himself that he

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00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:34.840
<v Speaker 3>did it even if he did not. There's also a

294
00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:38.519
<v Speaker 3>potential that he knew exactly what he did, and because

295
00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:41.240
<v Speaker 3>he had been drinking and driving, he waited till after that,

296
00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:44.720
<v Speaker 3>statured to limitations and didn't want to be held accountable

297
00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:47.559
<v Speaker 3>for it, and then came forward to try to get help.

298
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<v Speaker 3>But to me, it's very possible that he also just

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<v Speaker 3>convinced himself he was guilty.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what I was thinking as well, that even if

301
00:15:56.039 --> 00:15:58.799
<v Speaker 2>he legitimately did not do it, it probably did haunt

302
00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:01.360
<v Speaker 2>him even after the grain jury proceedings ended, where he

303
00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:03.440
<v Speaker 2>says that, well, they don't think there's enough evidence that

304
00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:05.759
<v Speaker 2>I did it, but I still kind of convinced in

305
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.879
<v Speaker 2>the back of my mind that I did do it.

306
00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:11.320
<v Speaker 2>And by the time his suicide take place, Lucille Showalter

307
00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:13.919
<v Speaker 2>had already passed away. So if he knew about that.

308
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.360
<v Speaker 2>That could have only confounded the guilt, thinking that this

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00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:19.480
<v Speaker 2>poor woman went to a grave without receiving justice or

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00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:22.080
<v Speaker 2>knowing what happened. So that could be why he decided

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00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:25.399
<v Speaker 2>to make that final confession in his suicide note, even

312
00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:28.639
<v Speaker 2>though the incident was over thirty years old at that point.

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<v Speaker 1>The human mind has like this immense capacity to integrate

314
00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:38.879
<v Speaker 1>false memories. There's famous research where the researchers showed participants'

315
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:42.600
<v Speaker 1>pictures of them on a vacation which had been photoshop

316
00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:47.159
<v Speaker 1>to these different places, and they were able to then

317
00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:52.080
<v Speaker 1>have these participants develop memories when asked questions about these

318
00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:55.360
<v Speaker 1>trips and what they did, and they were like very

319
00:16:55.799 --> 00:17:00.159
<v Speaker 1>tangible things. They were like visceral memories and remembering smell

320
00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:04.519
<v Speaker 1>and sights and sounds, and so to think that he

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00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:08.240
<v Speaker 1>could have been completely blackout drunk like we talked about

322
00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:11.880
<v Speaker 1>in episode one, and then just convinced himself that like, yeah,

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00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:13.920
<v Speaker 1>I was driving around that area, I'm the one that

324
00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:17.960
<v Speaker 1>did it. I think that is altogether possible. Like Ash

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00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:21.319
<v Speaker 1>just said, there's a possibility that he may have actually

326
00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:24.279
<v Speaker 1>done this, but I think that the former is more

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00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:28.759
<v Speaker 1>likely than the latter. One of the most dramatic developments

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00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:32.319
<v Speaker 1>in this story was a testimony from Catherine Krause and

329
00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:35.559
<v Speaker 1>her claims that Walter Spring Junior and Walter Spring Third

330
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.640
<v Speaker 1>held her against her will in a Florida motel room

331
00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:41.640
<v Speaker 1>after she told the police they'd done repairs on a

332
00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.720
<v Speaker 1>vehicle which struck Kevin show Walter. I do admit that

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00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:49.319
<v Speaker 1>to being a bit skeptical about this, though the Springs

334
00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:52.200
<v Speaker 1>do sound like they may be shady people. I know

335
00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:56.200
<v Speaker 1>that one investigator testified that he believed Kraus and Walter Junior,

336
00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:59.359
<v Speaker 1>who were both married to other people, had actually gone

337
00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:02.160
<v Speaker 1>down to Florida together to carry on a secret affair,

338
00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:05.799
<v Speaker 1>though I don't know if this was ever corroborated. It

339
00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:08.720
<v Speaker 1>sounds like Walter Junior had a habit of making himself

340
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:11.119
<v Speaker 1>out to be a big shot who once belonged to

341
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:14.119
<v Speaker 1>the mafia, and the allegations of him threatening to rub

342
00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:16.640
<v Speaker 1>out anyone who talked about his repair work on the

343
00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:21.160
<v Speaker 1>hit and run vehicle may have been greatly exaggerated. I

344
00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:24.599
<v Speaker 1>know that when Harvey Malov's Linking Continental was examined by

345
00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:27.680
<v Speaker 1>the state police, they found traces of damage to the

346
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.559
<v Speaker 1>right fender in the approximate location where the hit and

347
00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:35.279
<v Speaker 1>run vehicle might have struck Kevin. So if Malove was responsible,

348
00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:37.640
<v Speaker 1>then this would seem to negate the story of the

349
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:39.079
<v Speaker 1>Springs doing secret.

350
00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:39.960
<v Speaker 4>Repairs to his vehicle.

351
00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:43.720
<v Speaker 1>The problem is that we really only have Malov's word

352
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<v Speaker 1>that he drove the Linking Continental on Pequod Avenue that night,

353
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<v Speaker 1>and since this damage was not examined until over three

354
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:54.640
<v Speaker 1>years after the accident, it could have conceivably been caused

355
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<v Speaker 1>by something else. I don't know if the damage was

356
00:18:57.599 --> 00:18:59.880
<v Speaker 1>caused by a hit and run. I really have my

357
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.039
<v Speaker 1>doubts that Malub would have left it there for years

358
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:03.920
<v Speaker 1>after the fact.

359
00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:06.400
<v Speaker 4>So there are really three possibilities here.

360
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:10.079
<v Speaker 1>A the whole story about the Springs is fabricated and

361
00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:12.799
<v Speaker 1>they have no involvement with the hit and run. B

362
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:17.079
<v Speaker 1>The Springs repaired Malub's Continental and he sustained damage from

363
00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:21.599
<v Speaker 1>something else afterward. Or c The Springs did secret repairs

364
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.839
<v Speaker 1>to the vehicle which struck Keaven but someone else besides

365
00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:27.960
<v Speaker 1>Harvey Mallov was a driver for his part. Even though

366
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<v Speaker 1>Malov's Redevelopment Corporation had loaned three thousand to the Springs

367
00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:35.160
<v Speaker 1>prior to the accident, He testified that he had never

368
00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:38.720
<v Speaker 1>met them before, as he did not personally oversee every

369
00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:40.240
<v Speaker 1>loan his corporation made.

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<v Speaker 3>Is it possible that the lady who comes forward with

371
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<v Speaker 3>the story about them, Is it possible she's doing it

372
00:19:46.839 --> 00:19:49.559
<v Speaker 3>out of revenge and frustration if they were going down

373
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<v Speaker 3>there to possibly have a secret affair.

374
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<v Speaker 2>I do think that's possible, because, like we said, they

375
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.759
<v Speaker 2>were both married to other people. So if Walter Junior

376
00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:59.160
<v Speaker 2>says that, hey, I'm not leaving my wife for you,

377
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:02.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm ending this relationship, that could have compelled her to

378
00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:04.880
<v Speaker 2>come forward and give this false story about them being

379
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:08.440
<v Speaker 2>complicit in the hit and run on Kevin. Because stranding

380
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:10.759
<v Speaker 2>her in like a motel for like an entire month

381
00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:13.279
<v Speaker 2>seems pretty extreme. And I don't know if they ever

382
00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:15.359
<v Speaker 2>verified if that part of the story was.

383
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:17.279
<v Speaker 3>True, and did her husband miss her?

384
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:19.839
<v Speaker 4>How do they hold her in the hotel room?

385
00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.400
<v Speaker 1>Like if she was duct taped, if she was chained,

386
00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:24.599
<v Speaker 1>if she was drugged, there would be some kind of

387
00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:25.920
<v Speaker 1>evidence of that, would there not?

388
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:28.559
<v Speaker 2>I think so? Yeah, Like she never actually said that

389
00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:30.440
<v Speaker 2>she was forced against her will and said that they

390
00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:32.559
<v Speaker 2>held a gun on me or they handcuffed me or

391
00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:34.400
<v Speaker 2>taped me or anything. It's just kind of like they

392
00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:36.279
<v Speaker 2>brought me to Florida and kept me in this room

393
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:39.000
<v Speaker 2>and told me not to leave. But like, if you're

394
00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:40.799
<v Speaker 2>going to keep her there for an entire month, you'd

395
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:43.200
<v Speaker 2>have to do something more forceful, I think, and there

396
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:46.799
<v Speaker 2>would be evidence of that. The one thing which really

397
00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:49.839
<v Speaker 2>seems to implicate Malub is his story about passing through

398
00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:53.599
<v Speaker 2>the accident seen that night. It was contradicted by everyone

399
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.720
<v Speaker 2>else who was there, and without that story, I don't

400
00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:59.319
<v Speaker 2>think Judge Danny would have had much grounds to name

401
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:02.160
<v Speaker 2>Mallub has probable hit and run driver. But I'm still

402
00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:04.400
<v Speaker 2>trying to wrap my head around why Malib would have

403
00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:07.400
<v Speaker 2>even shared that story in the first place if he

404
00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:10.480
<v Speaker 2>was guilty. My best guess is that he was paranoid

405
00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:12.799
<v Speaker 2>that one of the witnesses might have seen his vehicle

406
00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:15.960
<v Speaker 2>driving down Pequad Avenue, so he had to concoct a

407
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.480
<v Speaker 2>cover story to explain what he was doing there at

408
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:21.559
<v Speaker 2>that time. However, since none of the witnesses got a

409
00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:23.400
<v Speaker 2>good enough look at the hit and run vehicle to

410
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:28.000
<v Speaker 2>provide a description, Maluv's fabricated cover story was unnecessary and

411
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:31.799
<v Speaker 2>wound up backfiring on him instead. The weird part is

412
00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:34.559
<v Speaker 2>that Malib also shared a story about seeing a dark

413
00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:37.359
<v Speaker 2>green car park to the scene, as this was easily

414
00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:40.799
<v Speaker 2>refuted by everyone else who was there. This might have

415
00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:43.440
<v Speaker 2>stemmed from the fact that there were dark green paint

416
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:47.079
<v Speaker 2>particles found on Kevin's clothing, and the initial FBI lab

417
00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:49.759
<v Speaker 2>report stated that it match the type of paint often

418
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:52.960
<v Speaker 2>found on a nineteen sixty eight Chrysler, a car which

419
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:55.400
<v Speaker 2>Malib would not have owned at that time, so this

420
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:58.119
<v Speaker 2>might have been Malub's subtle way of pointing the investigation

421
00:21:58.279 --> 00:22:01.519
<v Speaker 2>towards an alternate vehicle, though the state police would later

422
00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:04.480
<v Speaker 2>conclude that the green paint particles were likely a red

423
00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:08.160
<v Speaker 2>herring and did not originate from the car which hit Kevin.

424
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:10.759
<v Speaker 2>You might be wondering why Malub would have decided to

425
00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:14.559
<v Speaker 2>share such a blatantly false story with Lucille Showalter, but

426
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:17.119
<v Speaker 2>if he was the driver, he might have felt guilty

427
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:19.759
<v Speaker 2>over what happened and the fact that Lucille was being

428
00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:23.519
<v Speaker 2>treated so badly by the police, So Maliv decided to

429
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.960
<v Speaker 2>play the role of the support of friend and toss

430
00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:29.319
<v Speaker 2>Lucille a bone by telling her about this spictitious green

431
00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:32.160
<v Speaker 2>car in order to give her something to chase after.

432
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:34.920
<v Speaker 2>Maybe he thought this was the best thing he could

433
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:37.519
<v Speaker 2>do for Lucille, aside from confessing to the crime and

434
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:41.759
<v Speaker 2>turning himself in. Of course, Maliv's ulterior motive was to

435
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:44.559
<v Speaker 2>lead the trail away from him, and he probably never

436
00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:47.279
<v Speaker 2>envisioned that Lucille would eventually get far enough for a

437
00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:49.359
<v Speaker 2>grand jury investigation to be launched.

438
00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:53.680
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure all of them underestimated Lucille. She it was

439
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.920
<v Speaker 3>such an amazing advocate for her son, and refused to

440
00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:01.680
<v Speaker 3>give up, and she kept pursuing different us potential leads,

441
00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:04.359
<v Speaker 3>different potential avenue. She even tried to go to civil

442
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:06.680
<v Speaker 3>court just to get answers. Really, I don't think it

443
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:10.319
<v Speaker 3>was anticipating much, but I think just to get some answers.

444
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:12.559
<v Speaker 4>But you know, when you.

445
00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:16.279
<v Speaker 3>Look at Maliv, what was he doing on that backstreet anyway?

446
00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:20.559
<v Speaker 3>This was a very purposeful neighborhood street that if you

447
00:23:20.599 --> 00:23:22.400
<v Speaker 3>didn't have a reason to be on it, it's not

448
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:25.440
<v Speaker 3>something you would have been taking. So did he ever

449
00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:27.839
<v Speaker 3>explain where he had been, where he was going, and

450
00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:29.279
<v Speaker 3>why he was there in the first place.

451
00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:32.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm not entirely sure. I mean, he probably testified in

452
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:35.640
<v Speaker 2>the grand jury investigation and provided an alibi for himself,

453
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:37.559
<v Speaker 2>where he says, I went to this place at a

454
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:40.759
<v Speaker 2>particular time, I took this route home, But because the

455
00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:43.920
<v Speaker 2>grand jury investigation was behind closed doors, we never really

456
00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:46.839
<v Speaker 2>heard what his alibi was. It's never been shared to

457
00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:49.599
<v Speaker 2>the public, but I'm guessing that it came across as

458
00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:51.880
<v Speaker 2>suspicious where they were thinking, if you were driving from

459
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:53.799
<v Speaker 2>such and such a place to go home, there would

460
00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:56.440
<v Speaker 2>be no reason for you to go on this particular

461
00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:58.160
<v Speaker 2>street through this particular neighborhood.

462
00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:03.160
<v Speaker 1>I Judge Danny he ruled that the investigation into Kevin's

463
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:06.599
<v Speaker 1>death was hampered by incompetence rather than a deliberate attempt

464
00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:09.000
<v Speaker 1>at a cover up. But I actually think there are

465
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:11.480
<v Speaker 1>a number of things which point to the latter scenario

466
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:15.039
<v Speaker 1>we mentioned earlier. There was a suspicion that the green

467
00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:18.480
<v Speaker 1>paint particles on Kevin's clothing were planted there and did

468
00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:21.240
<v Speaker 1>not belong to the vehicle which struck him. There's also

469
00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:25.079
<v Speaker 1>the box containing the headlight glass fragment, which was turned

470
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:27.799
<v Speaker 1>over to the state police for the grand jury investigation.

471
00:24:28.519 --> 00:24:31.640
<v Speaker 1>It contained at least one fragment which did not originate

472
00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:34.559
<v Speaker 1>from the hit and run and was likely deliberately removed

473
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:38.279
<v Speaker 1>from the headlight socket of a totally different vehicle. It

474
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:40.759
<v Speaker 1>seems the glass fragment was planted in the box by

475
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:43.880
<v Speaker 1>someone who hoped that no one would notice the difference,

476
00:24:44.359 --> 00:24:47.599
<v Speaker 1>but an engineer from General Electric did, and I will

477
00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:49.759
<v Speaker 1>concede that this might have been done by the new

478
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:52.319
<v Speaker 1>London PD to cover up the fact that they lost

479
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:55.680
<v Speaker 1>some of the original headlight glass recovered from the accident scene,

480
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:58.960
<v Speaker 1>rather than because they were attempting to protect someone. But

481
00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:02.759
<v Speaker 1>it still looks pretty bad regardless. Prior to the grand

482
00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:06.079
<v Speaker 1>jury proceedings, it also looks like there were several deliberate

483
00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:10.720
<v Speaker 1>attempts to prevent Harvey Mallow from being investigated. For instance,

484
00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:15.440
<v Speaker 1>Lucille frequently tried to garner the attention of County administrative

485
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:19.000
<v Speaker 1>Judge Angelo Santaniello, who later went on to become a

486
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:22.640
<v Speaker 1>Justice of the Connecticut Supreme Court. After ignoring her on

487
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:27.920
<v Speaker 1>multiple occasions, Judge Santiniello finally promised Lucille that he would

488
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:31.599
<v Speaker 1>hold a coroner's inquest, but they never actually issued a finding.

489
00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:32.759
<v Speaker 4>Well.

490
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:37.079
<v Speaker 1>It turned out that Santiniello was Melov's best friend, and

491
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:41.160
<v Speaker 1>no transcript was ever provided for this coroner's inquest until

492
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.279
<v Speaker 1>years after the fact. Santaniello's excuse was that he'd put

493
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.400
<v Speaker 1>his niece in charge of typing up the transcript, but

494
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:50.119
<v Speaker 1>she just never got around to it.

495
00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:55.480
<v Speaker 3>Wow, that would make you, even if there was nothing

496
00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:58.319
<v Speaker 3>of furious going on, if you step back and you

497
00:25:58.359 --> 00:26:02.319
<v Speaker 3>look at this, it's really hard not to feel how

498
00:26:02.359 --> 00:26:05.839
<v Speaker 3>disingenuine it is. Right you again have somebody saying, oh,

499
00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:08.200
<v Speaker 3>don't worry, Lucille, We're really going to step up for you.

500
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:10.240
<v Speaker 3>I'm really going to help you this time, I hear

501
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:14.240
<v Speaker 3>you and validating her concern and frustration. And then again,

502
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:18.759
<v Speaker 3>just like Maliv had done to her, Maliff's friend does

503
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:22.359
<v Speaker 3>the exact same thing. He's basically pacifying her and not

504
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.160
<v Speaker 3>following through with any kind of genuine attempt to help her.

505
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:27.599
<v Speaker 2>Yep, that seems to be a pattern in this case,

506
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:30.160
<v Speaker 2>where they're like, well, we're going to do something to

507
00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:32.319
<v Speaker 2>help you, Lucille, and it seems like they're just telling

508
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:35.079
<v Speaker 2>her what she wants to hear, hoping she'll go away

509
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:36.920
<v Speaker 2>and forget about it. But then they just never do

510
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:40.480
<v Speaker 2>anything and then come up with ridiculous excuses when nothing

511
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:43.519
<v Speaker 2>actually happens. While on the subject of hit and runs,

512
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:46.160
<v Speaker 2>have you guys been following the Karen Reid case this

513
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:46.799
<v Speaker 2>past year?

514
00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:47.759
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

515
00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:51.519
<v Speaker 2>No. It's a pretty big case from Massachusetts about a

516
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:54.000
<v Speaker 2>police officer who was killed in a blizzard in what

517
00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:56.920
<v Speaker 2>was an alleged hit and run from her girlfriend, Karen Reid,

518
00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:59.400
<v Speaker 2>And she's already gone in trial and it's ended in

519
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:02.119
<v Speaker 2>a hunger and there's so much drama surrounding the case

520
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.960
<v Speaker 2>because there are allegations that members of the corrupt police

521
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:08.319
<v Speaker 2>force have planted evidence in order to frame her. And

522
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:10.880
<v Speaker 2>this is kind of bringing me flashbacks to this talking

523
00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:14.119
<v Speaker 2>about planting this fake headlight glass because in Karen Reid's

524
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:17.359
<v Speaker 2>place of and allegations that they planted like tailight pieces

525
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:20.720
<v Speaker 2>to frame her as well. So I know that case

526
00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:22.640
<v Speaker 2>wasn't around when I originally covered this on the Trail

527
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:25.039
<v Speaker 2>with Cold, but just talking about it now is now

528
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:27.200
<v Speaker 2>giving me flashbacks to the Karen Reid case.

529
00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:31.079
<v Speaker 1>She should listen to the prosecutor's coverage on it. They

530
00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:35.599
<v Speaker 1>really lay it out clearly, concisely, and succinctly, and so

531
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:37.880
<v Speaker 1>in like a few episodes you'll get all of the

532
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:41.519
<v Speaker 1>evidence and what it would take to have this conspiracy

533
00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:45.400
<v Speaker 1>of many. In the end, I walked away thinking she

534
00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:50.119
<v Speaker 1>did it. It's just really incompetent police work and getting

535
00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:54.440
<v Speaker 1>evidence in like red solo cups. But then you're working

536
00:27:54.519 --> 00:27:58.359
<v Speaker 1>against these horrible weather conditions, and they were trying to

537
00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:02.000
<v Speaker 1>make do in that situation, and it was not ideal

538
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:04.559
<v Speaker 1>and there was a lot of errors made, but I

539
00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:07.440
<v Speaker 1>think it was just rife for a situation where you

540
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.599
<v Speaker 1>could point to conspiracy, and Karen Reid was just the

541
00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:13.319
<v Speaker 1>right kind of defendant to have a lot of people

542
00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:15.119
<v Speaker 1>jump behind her on that bandwagon.

543
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:18.799
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I'm fascinated. I will absolutely listen to it. Teddy

544
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:21.799
<v Speaker 3>needs some good true crime podcasting to listen to while

545
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:23.680
<v Speaker 3>we're you know, nursing and things like that.

546
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:25.759
<v Speaker 2>I started thought that case, it's the first case for

547
00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:26.599
<v Speaker 2>baby to listen.

548
00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:27.720
<v Speaker 3>Amen.

549
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:32.759
<v Speaker 2>And while we're on the subject of transcripts, how about

550
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.119
<v Speaker 2>the fact that the transcripts from the original Grandeury investigation

551
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:39.559
<v Speaker 2>mysteriously went missing in two thousand and five when The

552
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:44.039
<v Speaker 2>Day newspaper attempted to obtain them. Now, these transcripts have

553
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:46.880
<v Speaker 2>been withheld from the public since nineteen seventy eight, so

554
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.519
<v Speaker 2>there's no way to pinpoint the exact time period they

555
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:52.720
<v Speaker 2>went missing, but they were twelve volumes in over three

556
00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:56.000
<v Speaker 2>thousand pages long, and you just don't lose something like

557
00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:59.079
<v Speaker 2>that by accident. It takes work to get rid of

558
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:02.240
<v Speaker 2>that much material. So this indicates to me that someone

559
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:06.200
<v Speaker 2>took steps to make the transcripts disappear, possibly because there

560
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:08.839
<v Speaker 2>was something incriminating in there which they did not want

561
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:12.240
<v Speaker 2>to be released publicly. In addition, there was also the

562
00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:15.200
<v Speaker 2>risk that Lucille could have used these transcripts as evidence

563
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:18.640
<v Speaker 2>to win a civil suit. Overall, this is what makes

564
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:21.559
<v Speaker 2>me think that Paul Hansen wasn't the actual driver of

565
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:24.839
<v Speaker 2>the hit run vehicle. His name was never mentioned during

566
00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:27.480
<v Speaker 2>the grand jury proceedings, and no one even knew who

567
00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:31.039
<v Speaker 2>he was until a year after the investigation concluded, so

568
00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:32.599
<v Speaker 2>there would be no need to get rid of the

569
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:35.640
<v Speaker 2>transcripts or destroy evidence in order to protect him. But

570
00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:38.640
<v Speaker 2>the big question is was there something in those transcripts

571
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:41.880
<v Speaker 2>to incriminate Harvey Malluf or someone else entirely.

572
00:29:43.559 --> 00:29:46.319
<v Speaker 3>It's really bizarre when you think about it. Like you said,

573
00:29:46.359 --> 00:29:50.640
<v Speaker 3>this is such a large quantity of information and paperwork

574
00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:53.720
<v Speaker 3>that it's not just a form that goes missing. This

575
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:57.920
<v Speaker 3>is a complete file and multiple files. I mean it's huge,

576
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:00.720
<v Speaker 3>and to say, oh, I don't know where that went

577
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:04.200
<v Speaker 3>someone does. It almost reminds me Robin when we talk

578
00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:07.319
<v Speaker 3>about the fact when you're moving offices you're given authorization

579
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:10.480
<v Speaker 3>to go through and select documents and files and things

580
00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:13.640
<v Speaker 3>that you're responsible for getting rid of. I almost feel

581
00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:17.240
<v Speaker 3>like someone had to specifically be assigned, like, hey, you

582
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:18.920
<v Speaker 3>need to go in the evidence room and you need

583
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:21.759
<v Speaker 3>to get old evidence or evidence is not relevant anymore

584
00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:24.839
<v Speaker 3>and destroy it because it had to be purposeful. You

585
00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:26.759
<v Speaker 3>don't just quote lose that.

586
00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes, In case you people don't know, my day job

587
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:33.119
<v Speaker 2>is working for Global Affairs Canada as a records management officer,

588
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:35.720
<v Speaker 2>and we just recently completed a new move to a

589
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:39.079
<v Speaker 2>new office space and have gone completely paperless, which means

590
00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:41.599
<v Speaker 2>that I've been in charge of making a whole bunch

591
00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:45.400
<v Speaker 2>of old paper documents digital and storing them electronically and

592
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:48.200
<v Speaker 2>then having them destroyed. And I can tell you that's

593
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:50.920
<v Speaker 2>a long process. You have to get a lot of authorization,

594
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:53.440
<v Speaker 2>so no one is going to take three thousand pages

595
00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:56.119
<v Speaker 2>of a transcript of a grand jury proceeding and then

596
00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:58.799
<v Speaker 2>just shred them all by accident like someone has to

597
00:30:58.839 --> 00:31:01.000
<v Speaker 2>make a calculated move to make that happen.

598
00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:05.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, there's no way we can say with one hundred

599
00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:09.240
<v Speaker 1>percent certainty, but I think there's a pretty compelling, circumstantial

600
00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:12.359
<v Speaker 1>case against Malove to make him the strongest suspect.

601
00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:14.519
<v Speaker 4>The biggest issue.

602
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:17.519
<v Speaker 1>Is that he told an obviously false story placing himself

603
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:20.519
<v Speaker 1>at the accident scene, and I see no reason for

604
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:24.079
<v Speaker 1>him to do this if he wasn't involved. This obviously

605
00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:26.880
<v Speaker 1>isn't strong enough evidence to ever build a criminal case

606
00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:31.079
<v Speaker 1>against him, but it's enough to arouse suspicion. From all

607
00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:33.920
<v Speaker 1>I've read about Malove, he seemed to be very well

608
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:36.680
<v Speaker 1>liked and respected citizen, and I can give him the

609
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:39.200
<v Speaker 1>benefit of the doubt that he honestly did not see

610
00:31:39.319 --> 00:31:43.119
<v Speaker 1>Kevin when he struck him allegedly, and he may have

611
00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:46.039
<v Speaker 1>been completely unaware that he hit anyone when he left

612
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:49.960
<v Speaker 1>a scene. As long as Melov wasn't intoxicated or driving

613
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:52.920
<v Speaker 1>recklessly at the time, then this is probably one of

614
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:57.240
<v Speaker 1>those unavoidable tragic accidents in which no one is completely

615
00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:00.519
<v Speaker 1>at fault. If Maluv had just come clean right at

616
00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:04.039
<v Speaker 1>the outset, he probably wouldn't have faced criminal charges and

617
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:06.759
<v Speaker 1>saved everyone a lot of pain, and from what I've

618
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:09.920
<v Speaker 1>read about Lucille's show, Walter, I think she probably would

619
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:13.119
<v Speaker 1>have forgiven him the metal of likely felt like he

620
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:16.319
<v Speaker 1>had a reputation to maintain and could not connect his

621
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:19.720
<v Speaker 1>name to an incident which caused the death of another person.

622
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:23.359
<v Speaker 3>That's exactly right when you look at this case. It's

623
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:27.640
<v Speaker 3>one of those that I honestly feel like Lucille, despite

624
00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:32.160
<v Speaker 3>how she was portrayed, solely wanted someone to say, let

625
00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:36.079
<v Speaker 3>me answer your questions, let me tell you what happened.

626
00:32:36.680 --> 00:32:40.200
<v Speaker 3>And I don't feel like she was out for revenge

627
00:32:40.359 --> 00:32:43.799
<v Speaker 3>or out to hurt anybody, because it was a tragic accident.

628
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:47.640
<v Speaker 3>Anyone who knows their child was killed via a hit

629
00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:50.880
<v Speaker 3>and run hit by an automobile changing a tire on

630
00:32:50.920 --> 00:32:54.720
<v Speaker 3>a dark road, that is just pure tragedy.

631
00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Right.

632
00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:58.440
<v Speaker 3>If someone had stopped and said, hey, this is what happened,

633
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:01.119
<v Speaker 3>or come forward the next day and say, hey, I

634
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:03.920
<v Speaker 3>was intoxicated, but this is what happened, there's so much

635
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:07.839
<v Speaker 3>respect and accountability there to say you made a big

636
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:10.559
<v Speaker 3>mistake and a mistake that stole the life of my

637
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:14.640
<v Speaker 3>child and our son and a friend and a young

638
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.519
<v Speaker 3>kid who had so much promise, but there's a room

639
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:22.160
<v Speaker 3>for compassion. It's when no one took accountability. And when

640
00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:25.559
<v Speaker 3>then she started to get stone walled and dismissed. I

641
00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:29.400
<v Speaker 3>think it caused an upset at the system, not at

642
00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:31.960
<v Speaker 3>what happened to her son. That was simply tragic and

643
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:36.200
<v Speaker 3>disheartening that no one could answer her question. So my

644
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:39.279
<v Speaker 3>heart breaks because she just wanted someone to say, I

645
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:41.920
<v Speaker 3>know what happened, and now you can lay your son

646
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:44.319
<v Speaker 3>to rest without those questions going off in your head,

647
00:33:44.359 --> 00:33:45.240
<v Speaker 3>and she never got that.

648
00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:47.640
<v Speaker 2>And this is why I think it's a good chance

649
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:50.880
<v Speaker 2>that Mala who or whoever the driver was, was intoxicated

650
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:53.119
<v Speaker 2>at the time, and so even if they had just

651
00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:56.200
<v Speaker 2>stopped the vehicle right there Agnfest, they probably still would

652
00:33:56.200 --> 00:33:59.279
<v Speaker 2>have faced serious jail time for that. And that's probably

653
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:02.920
<v Speaker 2>why he just avoided the situation and never even came

654
00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:06.400
<v Speaker 2>clean even years after the fact. Because we mentioned that

655
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.159
<v Speaker 2>Harvey mallib died of cancer in nineteen eighty nine, and

656
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:10.719
<v Speaker 2>I'd like to think that if he was a big

657
00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:13.760
<v Speaker 2>enough man, he would have finally made a deathbed confession

658
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:17.119
<v Speaker 2>and called Lucille over and apologized for what he did

659
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:20.559
<v Speaker 2>to Kevin and taken full responsibility, but even on death's door,

660
00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:24.159
<v Speaker 2>he never did that. However, maybe we're one hundred percent

661
00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:26.840
<v Speaker 2>wrong on this and Malib is completely innocent and the

662
00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:29.719
<v Speaker 2>real driver is another suspect we don't even know about.

663
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:32.599
<v Speaker 2>Whoever it was. I think it had to be someone

664
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:35.480
<v Speaker 2>prominent enough that the authorities were willing to sandbag an

665
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:39.559
<v Speaker 2>investigation and destroy evidence in order to protect them. Maybe

666
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:42.320
<v Speaker 2>probable was too strong a word for Judge Dany Heat

667
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:44.639
<v Speaker 2>to use when he named Harvey Malib as the driver,

668
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:47.719
<v Speaker 2>but he does seem more likely than anyone to have

669
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:51.480
<v Speaker 2>been the perpetrator. Now, since Lucille show Walter and the

670
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:56.000
<v Speaker 2>two prime suspects, Harvey Malob and Paul Hansen, have passed away,

671
00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:58.960
<v Speaker 2>it's unlikely we'll ever learn the full truth about what happened.

672
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:02.519
<v Speaker 2>Even if we, it's not like the perpetrator could be charged,

673
00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:06.800
<v Speaker 2>since the statute of limitations has long expired. However, Kevin

674
00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:09.280
<v Speaker 2>had two brothers, and as far as I know, they're

675
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:13.559
<v Speaker 2>both still alive. Kevin's younger brother, Craig, actually published an

676
00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:17.159
<v Speaker 2>editorial about the case in the Day newspaper on Christmas

677
00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:19.920
<v Speaker 2>Eve of two thousand and eight. It was a classy

678
00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:22.480
<v Speaker 2>piece of writing in which he expressed his condolences to

679
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:25.480
<v Speaker 2>the families of Hariy Mallev and Paul Hansen for all

680
00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:28.760
<v Speaker 2>the suffering they had to endure. But it's also clear

681
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:30.800
<v Speaker 2>the show Walter family has gone through a lot of

682
00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:33.719
<v Speaker 2>pain these fast five decades and would be nice if

683
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:36.519
<v Speaker 2>they could receive closure and finally put this matter to rest.

684
00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:39.440
<v Speaker 2>So if you happen to have any information about the

685
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:42.880
<v Speaker 2>hit and run death of Kevin Showalter, please contact the

686
00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:47.559
<v Speaker 2>appropriate authorities. Jules Ashley any final thoughts on this case.

687
00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:51.320
<v Speaker 3>Well, his brother sure is a class act. That's what

688
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:54.039
<v Speaker 3>I was trying to describe without being as articulate as

689
00:35:54.039 --> 00:35:57.360
<v Speaker 3>I needed to be earlier, is that in this tragedy,

690
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:00.880
<v Speaker 3>in something that's an accident, whether fully decisions were made

691
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:03.480
<v Speaker 3>to drink and drive or not, you still have the

692
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:08.239
<v Speaker 3>repercussions that you took somebody's life. And a family also

693
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:11.480
<v Speaker 3>has to face that their loved win took somebody's life.

694
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:13.840
<v Speaker 3>And so there's a lot of people who are affected

695
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:17.760
<v Speaker 3>in these kinds of accidents and hitting runs and drinking

696
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:22.199
<v Speaker 3>and driving accidents. It's not the victim only, it's the

697
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:25.519
<v Speaker 3>victim and their family. It's also the person who hits

698
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:30.840
<v Speaker 3>the victim and their family, and you know, I just, man,

699
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:33.440
<v Speaker 3>I feel so much respect for his brothers, saying, look,

700
00:36:33.559 --> 00:36:36.559
<v Speaker 3>there are no winners here. My mom passed away without

701
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:40.039
<v Speaker 3>knowing my brother's deceased and didn't get to live his life.

702
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:43.719
<v Speaker 3>Multiple people have been named as suspects or come forward

703
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:47.719
<v Speaker 3>taking credit for the crime, and it's all tragic, you know.

704
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:52.199
<v Speaker 3>And I think that's the kind of ultimate conclusion here,

705
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:55.199
<v Speaker 3>is that it's just sad. You had a kid with

706
00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:57.880
<v Speaker 3>so much potential who just went out for fun on

707
00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:02.000
<v Speaker 3>Christmas Eve and he loses his life by trying to

708
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:08.000
<v Speaker 3>change a tire. Sad and a mother who said, please

709
00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:09.880
<v Speaker 3>just pay attention to the fact that I lost the

710
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:14.280
<v Speaker 3>most important thing in my life and people didn't breaks

711
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:16.320
<v Speaker 3>my heart. This is one of the sadder, kind of

712
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:21.360
<v Speaker 3>emotionally heavy cases, just for how disregarded the survivors were

713
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:23.679
<v Speaker 3>in the case and how still the brother remains a

714
00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:26.760
<v Speaker 3>class act, saying I feel empathy for everyone involved.

715
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:28.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the brother is really a standout here.

716
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:32.400
<v Speaker 1>I feel like this case is shattering because it reverberates

717
00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:36.559
<v Speaker 1>out and it affected so many people and so many families,

718
00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:38.719
<v Speaker 1>and what is at the heart of it it seems

719
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:41.920
<v Speaker 1>to just be a tragic accident that likely could have

720
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:46.000
<v Speaker 1>been avoided. But accidents happen. And I mean, do I

721
00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:49.119
<v Speaker 1>think that Harvey Malove is the most likely perpetrator. Yes,

722
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:53.719
<v Speaker 1>But in that split second decision that he made rather

723
00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:57.760
<v Speaker 1>than call law enforcement and say this was an accident,

724
00:37:57.880 --> 00:38:01.039
<v Speaker 1>he wasn't visible, he didn't have his breaks on. I

725
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:04.199
<v Speaker 1>couldn't see him and I hit him. But due to

726
00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:08.320
<v Speaker 1>other factors, maybe he was intoxicated, maybe he wasn't. Given

727
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:10.719
<v Speaker 1>that he was a prominent political figure having his name

728
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:14.880
<v Speaker 1>tied to a tragedy in which Kevin died, it would

729
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:19.360
<v Speaker 1>have been difficult. It just seems so convoluted and conspiratorial,

730
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:22.079
<v Speaker 1>all of these different actions that were taken, evidence that

731
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:26.519
<v Speaker 1>was lost, and even the whole coroner's inquest to find

732
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:30.920
<v Speaker 1>out that that judge was best friends with Malove. And

733
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:34.000
<v Speaker 1>it's just like everybody is a little bit too cozy here,

734
00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:39.320
<v Speaker 1>and the victims are truly people like Lucille's Showalter, who

735
00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:42.480
<v Speaker 1>was just treated I feel like in such a disrespectful

736
00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:46.039
<v Speaker 1>manner where they're either pacifying her, placating her, or passing

737
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:50.119
<v Speaker 1>her off or portraying her in a really unflattering light

738
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:53.000
<v Speaker 1>like she was portrayed on that TV show, and my

739
00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:56.599
<v Speaker 1>heart truly breaks for Lucille because all she ever wanted

740
00:38:56.719 --> 00:38:59.440
<v Speaker 1>was justice and answers for what happened to Kevin.

741
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:03.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we just mentioned what a class act Kevin's brother,

742
00:39:03.079 --> 00:39:06.159
<v Speaker 2>Craig was with that editorially published and I was lucky

743
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:09.000
<v Speaker 2>enough to be contacted by Craig after I released my

744
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:12.480
<v Speaker 2>Trail one cold episode about this case in twenty seventeen,

745
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:14.599
<v Speaker 2>and he was really nice about it. He was very

746
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:16.960
<v Speaker 2>happy that I covered the case, and I think he's

747
00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:19.599
<v Speaker 2>one of those family members who feels that even if

748
00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:22.199
<v Speaker 2>we don't get a conclusive resolution after all these years,

749
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:24.760
<v Speaker 2>it's nice that people still remember Kevin and want to

750
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:27.440
<v Speaker 2>share his story, and also the story about his mother

751
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:30.119
<v Speaker 2>and what a great activist she was trying to find

752
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:33.039
<v Speaker 2>answers for her son. Because she could have just given

753
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:35.400
<v Speaker 2>up and accepted right at the outset that the case

754
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:37.800
<v Speaker 2>will never be solved, she'll never find out who did this,

755
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:42.760
<v Speaker 2>but she spent years fighting tireslessly, gathering evidence, interviewing witnesses,

756
00:39:42.920 --> 00:39:45.719
<v Speaker 2>and as a result, it actually got presented in front

757
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:48.280
<v Speaker 2>of a grand jury, and we talked about how this

758
00:39:48.400 --> 00:39:51.199
<v Speaker 2>ultimately cost more money than had ever been seen at

759
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:53.360
<v Speaker 2>that time for a hit and run case, for a

760
00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:56.559
<v Speaker 2>hit and run investigation, And like we talked about, when

761
00:39:56.599 --> 00:39:59.880
<v Speaker 2>you look at the evidence, it does seem probable that

762
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Harvey Mallib is the most likely suspect. We don't have

763
00:40:03.079 --> 00:40:06.079
<v Speaker 2>enough evidence against him to prosecute him or take him

764
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:08.559
<v Speaker 2>to court, but the fact that he made those incriminating

765
00:40:08.599 --> 00:40:12.519
<v Speaker 2>statements placing himself at the accident scene, which is contradicted

766
00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:15.079
<v Speaker 2>by all the other witnesses there, seems to indicate that

767
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:17.119
<v Speaker 2>he may have been trying to clear his conscience or

768
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:19.920
<v Speaker 2>send Lucille in the wrong direction to cover for himself.

769
00:40:19.960 --> 00:40:22.400
<v Speaker 2>But he pretty much stuck his own foot in his mouth.

770
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:24.480
<v Speaker 2>If he hadn't done that, I don't know if anyone

771
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:27.639
<v Speaker 2>ever would have linked him to this crime. I definitely

772
00:40:27.639 --> 00:40:30.280
<v Speaker 2>think he's a more likely candidate to Paul Hanson. And

773
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:33.559
<v Speaker 2>like I said, the statute of limitations nearly ran out.

774
00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:36.599
<v Speaker 2>Eventually ran out, so he never would have been charged anyway.

775
00:40:36.639 --> 00:40:38.199
<v Speaker 2>But it would have just have been nice to see

776
00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:41.400
<v Speaker 2>some accountability. That's all Lucille and her family won. It's

777
00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:43.960
<v Speaker 2>someone to like finally say I was the one who

778
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:46.679
<v Speaker 2>hit your son I'm sorry that I ran away, but

779
00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:48.960
<v Speaker 2>this is what happened, and she didn't even get that,

780
00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:51.760
<v Speaker 2>and it does seem likely there was a cover up

781
00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:54.360
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of people concealed the truth and this

782
00:40:54.559 --> 00:40:57.840
<v Speaker 2>tragic accident wound up escalating into an unsolved cold case

783
00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:01.719
<v Speaker 2>which still doesn't have a conclusive resolution. And after fifty years.

784
00:41:02.599 --> 00:41:04.039
<v Speaker 1>Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit

785
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:05.039
<v Speaker 1>about the Trail Went Cold?

786
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:05.559
<v Speaker 4>Patreon?

787
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:08.679
<v Speaker 2>Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three

788
00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:12.480
<v Speaker 2>years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like

789
00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:15.960
<v Speaker 2>early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers

790
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.840
<v Speaker 2>and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up

791
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:21.400
<v Speaker 2>with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars

792
00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:25.559
<v Speaker 2>tier tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in

793
00:41:25.559 --> 00:41:28.719
<v Speaker 2>which I talk about cases which are not featured on

794
00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:32.079
<v Speaker 2>the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon,

795
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:34.880
<v Speaker 2>and if you join our highest tier tier three, the

796
00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:37.880
<v Speaker 2>ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is

797
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:42.239
<v Speaker 2>a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsolved Mysteries,

798
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:45.440
<v Speaker 2>where you can download an audio file and then boot

799
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:48.719
<v Speaker 2>up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or

800
00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:52.159
<v Speaker 2>YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in

801
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:55.280
<v Speaker 2>the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about

802
00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:58.760
<v Speaker 2>the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very

803
00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:01.719
<v Speaker 2>first episode that I did commentary track over was the

804
00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:04.880
<v Speaker 2>episode featuring this case. So if you want to download

805
00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:07.400
<v Speaker 2>a commentary track in which I make more smart ass

806
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:11.000
<v Speaker 2>remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join Tier three.

807
00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:12.719
<v Speaker 5>So I want to let you know a little bit

808
00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:15.719
<v Speaker 5>about the Jeweles and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad

809
00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:18.639
<v Speaker 5>free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our

810
00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:21.639
<v Speaker 5>Pathwent Chili mini's, which are always over an hour, so

811
00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:23.800
<v Speaker 5>they're not very mini, but they're just too short to

812
00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:26.760
<v Speaker 5>turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those.

813
00:42:26.840 --> 00:42:29.360
<v Speaker 4>So we hope you'll check out those patreons. We'll link

814
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:30.480
<v Speaker 4>them in the show notes.

815
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:32.880
<v Speaker 2>So I want to thank you all for listening, and

816
00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:35.360
<v Speaker 2>any chance you have to share us on social media

817
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:38.400
<v Speaker 2>with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciated.

818
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:41.599
<v Speaker 2>You can email us at The Pathwentchili at gmail dot com.

819
00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:44.519
<v Speaker 2>You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin. So

820
00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:47.239
<v Speaker 2>until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold

821
00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:49.719
<v Speaker 2>trails and chili pass call for warm clothing.

822
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:53.079
<v Speaker 1>Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy