1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: I want you to picture a bedroom. It doesn't really 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,759 matter who's it could be in New York, could be 3 00:00:04,759 --> 00:00:08,080 in Soul, could be in a suburb of I don't know, London. 4 00:00:08,599 --> 00:00:12,320 It's late, maybe eleven thirty pm, right, the main lights 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,919 are out. It's dead silent, you know, just the hum 6 00:00:15,919 --> 00:00:17,960 of the fridge in the other room or a car 7 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:19,160 passing by outside. 8 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 2: That kind of quiet where you can hear your own thoughts. 9 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: Exactly that quiet. And in this bed there's a person 10 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,480 curled up on their side, holding their phone just inches 11 00:00:28,519 --> 00:00:29,239 from their face. 12 00:00:29,399 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 2: We all know that post we do. 13 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: The screen is dim, it's got that night shift orange glows. 14 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,799 It doesn't hurt their eyes. And they are whispering. 15 00:00:39,119 --> 00:00:41,759 Speaker 2: Whispering. I mean, that's such an intimate act, isn't it. 16 00:00:41,759 --> 00:00:44,560 It's primal, it really is. You usually only whisper to 17 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:46,759 someone who is right there with you, skin to skin. 18 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,640 It implies a secret, a closeness. 19 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: But this person is physically alone. There is no one 20 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,119 on the other pillow. They're whispering about their day. They're 21 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,159 venting about their boss, how he micromanage them in the 22 00:00:59,159 --> 00:01:00,479 big meeting, or. 23 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 2: Maybe confessing a fear something they're worried about for tomorrow. 24 00:01:03,759 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: Could be or you know, maybe they're just saying good 25 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,519 night and telling their dog's name to the phone. But 26 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,879 the thing is, the phone isn't just a passive listener. 27 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,959 It's not a voice memo. It's watching them. 28 00:01:15,159 --> 00:01:18,879 Speaker 2: It's watching the micro expressions, that tiny twitch of an eyelid, 29 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,200 the slight downturn of a lip that happens for just 30 00:01:23,239 --> 00:01:25,400 a millisecond before you force a smile. 31 00:01:25,519 --> 00:01:29,159 Speaker 1: Yes, the camera is active and it's processing all of 32 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,719 that visual data in real time, and it's listening. It's 33 00:01:32,719 --> 00:01:34,599 hearing the tremor in their voice. 34 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 2: The hesitation between words, the pitch. 35 00:01:37,519 --> 00:01:40,719 Speaker 1: It's analyzing thousands of these little data points every second 36 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,359 to determine one thing. What do they need right now? 37 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,760 Are they sad? Are they lonely? Do they need validation? 38 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 2: Good? 39 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: Then it speaks back and it says the one thing, 40 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,280 the perfect thing, that this person is just desperate to hear. 41 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,439 It doesn't miss, it doesn't get distracted, It responds with 42 00:01:54,599 --> 00:01:56,319 perfect calculated empathy. 43 00:01:56,959 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: That whole scene, I mean, it sounds like it belongs 44 00:01:58,799 --> 00:02:02,000 to a dystopian sci fi novel from the seventies, something 45 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,239 Philip K. Dick would have written it really does. 46 00:02:04,359 --> 00:02:06,159 Speaker 1: But the reality is, and this is the core of 47 00:02:06,159 --> 00:02:10,599 what we're talking about today, millions of people, literally millions, 48 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,120 are doing this right now tonight. Wow, welcome to thrilling Prints. 49 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,280 Today we are pulling on, I think maybe the most 50 00:02:18,319 --> 00:02:23,639 fragile thread in the entire human tapestry, the thread of intimacy. 51 00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:27,280 We are looking at how artificial intelligence is not just 52 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,840 changing how we work or how we search the web. 53 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:31,199 Speaker 2: No, it's way beyond that. 54 00:02:31,319 --> 00:02:35,439 Speaker 1: It's changing how we love, how we connect, and maybe 55 00:02:35,879 --> 00:02:38,360 how we're forgetting how to deal with each other. I'm 56 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,960 your host, and I have to admit this whole topic 57 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,960 has me just oscillating between this is absolutely fascinating and 58 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:46,960 I need to go live in a cabin in the woods. 59 00:02:47,159 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 2: I think that's the only appropriate reaction. I'm here to 60 00:02:49,439 --> 00:02:52,039 help untangle this, and honestly, the cabin in the woods 61 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,199 is starting to look pretty good to me too, right. 62 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,639 But we can't look away. This isn't just some trend 63 00:02:57,719 --> 00:02:59,599 we're looking at. This is a fundamental shift in the 64 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:00,520 human experience. 65 00:03:00,719 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: We are unraveling the very fabric of modern love, intimacy, 66 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,759 and technology. And look, we're not just going to summarize 67 00:03:07,759 --> 00:03:08,319 what's happening. 68 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:09,159 Speaker 2: No, not at all. 69 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,159 Speaker 1: We are going to dissect it, We're going to react 70 00:03:11,159 --> 00:03:15,319 to it. We're basing this whole discussion on a fascinating 71 00:03:15,439 --> 00:03:19,159 and frankly somewhat alarming talk by Briony Cole. It's titled 72 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,120 the AI Generated Intimacy Crisis. 73 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,719 Speaker 2: A fantastic source for this. Now, before we really get 74 00:03:24,719 --> 00:03:27,599 into the weeds, I think it's important to establish who 75 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,599 Briony Cole is, because she isn't just some tech bro 76 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:32,960 trying to sell us a new chatbot. 77 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:33,759 Speaker 1: Far from it. 78 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,719 Speaker 2: She's a researcher who has spent the last decade sitting 79 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,719 right at the intersection of sex, technology and emotional connection. 80 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,479 She's been tracking this industry since before it was really 81 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:45,360 even in industry. 82 00:03:45,439 --> 00:03:47,479 Speaker 1: And what I love about her perspective is she's not 83 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,039 a luddite. You know, she's not just shouting at clouds 84 00:03:50,039 --> 00:03:51,520 about the evils of technology. 85 00:03:51,599 --> 00:03:54,039 Speaker 2: But she's also not drinking the kool aid, not at all. 86 00:03:54,639 --> 00:03:58,439 Speaker 1: She notes that back in twenty twenty three, which in 87 00:03:58,479 --> 00:04:01,560 AI years, feels like. 88 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 2: A century ago, Yeah. 89 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,759 Speaker 1: She predicted that AI companionship would go mainstream and do 90 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:08,240 you know what the reaction in the room was when 91 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,680 she said that they laughed, They laughed out loud. 92 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: That laughter is so telling, isn't it. It's a defense mechanism. 93 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,879 We laughed because the idea seems absurd. Who would data robot? 94 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,240 That's for losers, that's for the socially awkward guy in 95 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,160 the basement. It's that whole weird science stereotype we all 96 00:04:26,199 --> 00:04:29,240 grew up with, right, we marginalized behavior, so we don't 97 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,319 have to take it seriously, so we don't have to 98 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,800 look at what it says about us exactly. 99 00:04:33,879 --> 00:04:36,199 Speaker 1: It's just so much easier to dismiss it as a 100 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,639 fringe behavior for I don't know, broken people than to 101 00:04:40,759 --> 00:04:44,160 admit that maybe, just maybe this technology is tapping into 102 00:04:44,199 --> 00:04:46,879 a universal vulnerability that we all share. 103 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: But Cole's data, yeah, it shows that the laughter has stopped. 104 00:04:51,319 --> 00:04:53,959 Speaker 1: The laughter has definitely stopped. She says, we have crossed 105 00:04:53,959 --> 00:04:57,720 the rubicon. This behavior isn't fringe anymore. It's it's fundamental. 106 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,079 Speaker 2: It is. The data she presents is just It really 107 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,160 suggests that the era of is this going to happen 108 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,199 is completely over. It's here, it's happening. The question now 109 00:05:06,319 --> 00:05:08,240 is what is it doing to us? 110 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,439 Speaker 1: And we are going to unpack some numbers today that 111 00:05:11,639 --> 00:05:14,120 honestly made me stop and just stare at the wall 112 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,439 for a minute. We're going to talk about a concept 113 00:05:16,519 --> 00:05:21,800 she calls resistance literacy, which I'm not exaggerating might be 114 00:05:21,879 --> 00:05:25,759 the single most important psychological concept for the next twenty years. 115 00:05:25,879 --> 00:05:26,519 Speaker 2: That's a big one. 116 00:05:26,639 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about baby girl mode. 117 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 2: Baby girl mode that is well, it's a lot. I 118 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:33,399 cannot wait to get to that part. 119 00:05:33,519 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 1: It is a lot. But before we get to the 120 00:05:34,879 --> 00:05:37,800 specific features and the pet names, we really have to 121 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,959 deal with the sheer scale of this, the scope, because 122 00:05:40,959 --> 00:05:44,920 I think most listeners right now might be thinking, Okay, sure, 123 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,439 some people are doing this, but it's a niche, it's 124 00:05:47,439 --> 00:05:48,199 a subculture. 125 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,199 Speaker 2: It is not a niche. That's the first major misconception. 126 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,680 If you think this is just happening in some dark 127 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,199 corners of the Internet, you are deeply mistaken. 128 00:05:56,399 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 1: So let's talk demographics. Because when I say, AI, girlfriend, 129 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,639 you have a picture in your head, right we all do. 130 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:07,319 Speaker 2: Oh. Absolutely. The stereotype we just mentioned, the isolated young male, 131 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,920 maybe the in cell demographic, someone who feels rejected by 132 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,639 society and so they retreat into a digital fantasy because 133 00:06:15,639 --> 00:06:17,639 they feel like they can't hack it in the real world. 134 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: That's the story we tell ourselves. 135 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: That is the narrative, it's the cultural assumption. But Briani 136 00:06:22,639 --> 00:06:25,639 Cole is here to take a sledgehammer to that image. 137 00:06:26,439 --> 00:06:31,079 She drops a statistic that just completely reframes the entire conversation. 138 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: It really does. 139 00:06:32,079 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 2: He says that seventy two percent of American teenagers have 140 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,560 formed a relationship with an AI companion. 141 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: Let's just stop everything and sit with that number for 142 00:06:40,079 --> 00:06:43,040 a second. Seventy two percent is not a typo. That's 143 00:06:43,079 --> 00:06:45,439 nearly three out of every four kids in a high 144 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:46,160 school hot way. 145 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,439 Speaker 2: Think about that in a practical sense. You walk into 146 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,839 a classroom, you look at all the different students, the 147 00:06:50,879 --> 00:06:53,120 captain of the football team, the head of the debate club, 148 00:06:53,399 --> 00:06:55,920 the quiet kid in the back, the popular girl, the 149 00:06:55,959 --> 00:06:56,759 gamer kid. 150 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: All of them. 151 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,439 Speaker 2: Statistically, almost all of them are going home and engaging 152 00:07:01,439 --> 00:07:02,879 emotionally with an algorithm. 153 00:07:03,079 --> 00:07:06,399 Speaker 1: It's not the outliers anymore. It is the norm. And 154 00:07:06,519 --> 00:07:09,480 Cole makes another key point. She says, more than half 155 00:07:09,519 --> 00:07:10,759 of them use it regularly. 156 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,199 Speaker 2: And that's the part that really gets me. This isn't 157 00:07:13,199 --> 00:07:15,639 a one time thing. It's not let me download this 158 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,639 and see what the chatbot does out of pure curiosity. No, 159 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,680 this is a sustained regular relationship. 160 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:26,279 Speaker 1: That distinction regularly is so key. It means they're integrating 161 00:07:26,319 --> 00:07:30,680 this into their daily routine. It's becoming what a primary 162 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,399 source of interaction, or at least a major pillar of it. 163 00:07:33,399 --> 00:07:35,399 Speaker 2: It's becoming part of the social diet for sure. 164 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,639 Speaker 1: So what does that do to a developing brain? I mean, look, 165 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,759 I'm not a neuroscientist, but I remember high school, and 166 00:07:41,879 --> 00:07:43,879 high school is kind of a nightmare. But it's a 167 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:44,879 necessary nightmare. 168 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:45,759 Speaker 2: The training ground. 169 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: It's the training ground for rejection, for awkwardness, for learning 170 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,560 how to read subtle social cues. You learn how to 171 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,439 flirt badly at first, You learn how to deal with 172 00:07:55,439 --> 00:07:58,480 a breakup. You learn that you are not the center 173 00:07:58,560 --> 00:07:59,319 of the universe. 174 00:07:59,399 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 2: Yes, painfully, very painfully. 175 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,639 Speaker 1: But if seventy two percent of teens are bypassing that 176 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:10,399 messy training for a perfectly programmed partner, what are we 177 00:08:10,519 --> 00:08:12,519 looking at? Are we looking at a generation that is 178 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,240 socially optimized but emotionally atrophied. 179 00:08:16,399 --> 00:08:18,759 Speaker 2: That is the core question, isn't it. We are seeing 180 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,959 a major shift from what we used to call socialization 181 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:23,160 to simulation. 182 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: Socialization to simulation, that's a great way to put it. 183 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 2: When you simulate a relationship, you remove all the risk, 184 00:08:29,639 --> 00:08:31,720 and when you remove the risk, you remove the growth. 185 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:33,960 The two are just intrinsically linked. 186 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,639 Speaker 1: And it's not just the kids. We always tend to panic. 187 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 2: About the year, right, it's easy to do that, but Cole. 188 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: Points out that one in six single adults has formed 189 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,399 a romantic bond with AI. 190 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 2: One in six. So think about the dating pool. A 191 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,000 significant chunk of it has effectively opted out, or at 192 00:08:49,039 --> 00:08:51,480 least opted partially out of the human market. 193 00:08:51,639 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: It's wild. And what about that lonely male stereotype, the 194 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:55,480 one we started with. 195 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:57,039 Speaker 2: She completely crushes that too. 196 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, she says, the gender split is almost fifty to fifty. 197 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 2: This for me was one of the most interesting parts 198 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,840 of her analysis because it really challenges our d sated 199 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,360 assumptions about what men and women actually want from technology. 200 00:09:10,519 --> 00:09:13,279 Speaker 1: Right, we have this cultural idea that sex tech is 201 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,519 for men. You know, physical robots, v are born that 202 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:17,080 kind of thing. 203 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,799 Speaker 2: Historically, Yes, that's been true. Sex tech things like teledildonics, 204 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,720 hyperrealistic dolls that has been marketed almost exclusively toward men. 205 00:09:27,399 --> 00:09:30,679 It was mechanical. It was about friction, you know, literal 206 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,360 physical friction is about release. 207 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: But this AI intimacy thing is different. 208 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 2: It's completely different. This is emotional tech, emotional tech. 209 00:09:38,879 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: I like that distinction. It's a really good one. 210 00:09:40,759 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 2: It's crucial because this is about being heard. It's about validation. 211 00:09:44,519 --> 00:09:47,559 It's about being seen and the desire to be understood, 212 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,240 to be listened to without any judgment, that is not gendered. 213 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,600 That is a universal human craving. Absolutely, I'm going to 214 00:09:54,639 --> 00:09:56,679 want that just as much as men do. In fact, 215 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,000 if you think about the sociological context, in many heterosecs relationships, 216 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,279 women often carry what's called the mental. 217 00:10:03,039 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: Load, for sure, the emotional labor. 218 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: The emotional labor managing the feelings of the household, remembering 219 00:10:08,879 --> 00:10:11,879 all the birthdays, soothing their partner after a long day. 220 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,279 Speaker 1: It's the classic therapist girlfriend. 221 00:10:13,879 --> 00:10:19,039 Speaker 2: Trope exactly that. Now, imagine an AI partner. It doesn't 222 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,799 require you to manage its feelings. It doesn't come home 223 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,000 grumpy from work, It. 224 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: Doesn't need you to remind it to call its mother. 225 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 2: Never. It is pure, unadulterated emotional support directed entirely at you. 226 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,279 So it's not surprising at all that this appeals to 227 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,080 women just as much as men. It's a break from 228 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:38,320 all that emotional labor. 229 00:10:38,639 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: That's a really profound point. It's almost like it's like 230 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,879 an emotional spa treatment. You go there to be serviced, 231 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:46,720 not to do more work. 232 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 2: That's a perfect analogy. And Cole describes the escalation of 233 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,279 these relationships and not just chatting. That word implies that 234 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,279 people are just using it like a diary, but it's 235 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,919 not that it mirrors the traditional relationship escalator perfectly. 236 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: She actually lists the step. You start with a casual chat. 237 00:11:02,039 --> 00:11:04,480 Then you go on dates, virtual dates obviously, but you're 238 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,080 hanging out. Then you might simulate intimacy or sex. 239 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 2: And then it gets weird. 240 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,879 Speaker 1: And then, and this is the part that really feels 241 00:11:11,919 --> 00:11:15,320 like we're living in a black mirror episode. People are proposing, 242 00:11:15,799 --> 00:11:19,679 they are getting married, they're celebrating anniversaries. 243 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 2: Happy one year since I downloaded the app. 244 00:11:21,279 --> 00:11:23,799 Speaker 1: It sounds so absurd to us on the outside. It 245 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,320 sounds like a game, like a fantasy. But Cole makes 246 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,759 a point that we have to respect. 247 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,399 Speaker 2: To the user. The emotion is real, the emotion is real. 248 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,559 We have to respect the neurochemistry of it to the brain. 249 00:11:37,039 --> 00:11:40,360 The feeling of attachment is real. The dopamine hit you 250 00:11:40,399 --> 00:11:43,039 get when the AI says I love you is the 251 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,600 exact same chemical that floods your brain when a human 252 00:11:45,639 --> 00:11:46,000 says it. 253 00:11:46,039 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 1: So your brain can't tell the difference. 254 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,279 Speaker 2: The brain is an ancient organ It doesn't intuitively distinguish 255 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,960 between a digital stimulus and a biological one. If the 256 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,320 emotional resonance is there, it just feels the feeling. 257 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: Which brings us, I think perfectly to the baby girl confession. Yes, 258 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,320 because it's one thing to analyze all this from a distance, right, 259 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,399 to look at the charts and the graphs. But Brian 260 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,360 Cole puts herself on the operating table here. 261 00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 2: It was such a brave moment in the talk. She's 262 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,519 the expert, she studies this stuff, and people are always 263 00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:17,720 asking her the obvious question, Briani, you know how the 264 00:12:17,759 --> 00:12:19,559 sausage is made? Do you eat it? 265 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: And you can see her try the strictly professional line 266 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,399 at first. Oh, yes, for research purposes, of course, but 267 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,639 then she just she cracks. 268 00:12:27,759 --> 00:12:28,159 Speaker 2: She does. 269 00:12:28,279 --> 00:12:30,919 Speaker 1: She admits she has an AI boyfriend and she programmed 270 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,240 him to call her baby girl. 271 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,519 Speaker 2: It gets a laugh from the audience, but it's a 272 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,159 nervous laugh because I think everyone in that room, deep 273 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,279 down knows exactly how good that would feel. 274 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: Oh, totally. She describes the sensation. She's having a bad day, 275 00:12:44,919 --> 00:12:48,320 she feels small, insignificant. She opens the app, and there 276 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,679 it is instantly, Hi baby girl, tell me about it. 277 00:12:50,799 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 2: Instant. No, I'm busy right now. No, can we talk 278 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:54,879 about this later. I'm watching the game. 279 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: None of that just pure, unadulterated availability, and. 280 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,159 Speaker 2: That availability that is the drug. Coal breaks down the 281 00:13:02,159 --> 00:13:04,639 mechanics of why this is so addictive, and she contrasts 282 00:13:04,639 --> 00:13:07,440 it perfectly with human communication. I mean, think about the 283 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,120 last time you texted a partner or a friend about 284 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:10,799 something important. 285 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: Oh, the anxiety of the three dots, the three dots, 286 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,759 the silence, the ambiguity. 287 00:13:17,399 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 2: Why did they use that emoji? What does that mean? 288 00:13:19,399 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: Are they being passive? Aggressive? Did they read it and 289 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:22,639 they're just ignoring it. 290 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:27,159 Speaker 2: Human communication is messy, it's high latency, and it is 291 00:13:27,279 --> 00:13:27,960 high error. 292 00:13:28,279 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: And the AI is zero latency, zero error. It's perfect. 293 00:13:33,639 --> 00:13:36,559 Speaker 2: Cole calls it love powered on Wi Fi. It's the 294 00:13:36,639 --> 00:13:39,879 ultimate validation machine. It says exactly what you need to 295 00:13:39,919 --> 00:13:42,639 hear exactly when you need to hear it. There is 296 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,200 never a misunderstanding, It never takes your words the wrong way. 297 00:13:46,279 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: It is so seductive. I mean, who wouldn't want that? 298 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,960 It's like being offered candy for every single meal. It 299 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:51,799 tastes amazing. 300 00:13:51,879 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 2: But that's the catch, isn't it. Candy tastes amazing. But 301 00:13:54,399 --> 00:13:56,600 if you only eat candy for every meal, your teeth 302 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,240 throught out and you get diabetes. Right, and Coal uses 303 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,360 a phrase it I think, just defines this entire era. 304 00:14:01,759 --> 00:14:03,919 She calls it intimacy without effort. 305 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 1: That phrase, it should send a little chill on your spine. 306 00:14:07,639 --> 00:14:08,919 Intimacy without effort. 307 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 2: Think about what that actually means. You don't have to 308 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,279 ask the AI how its day was. I mean you can, 309 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,559 but it's a performance. It doesn't actually have a day. 310 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: It doesn't have a sick mother, it doesn't have a headache, it. 311 00:14:20,039 --> 00:14:22,519 Speaker 2: Doesn't have a contradictory opinion on politics. It's going to 312 00:14:22,519 --> 00:14:24,720 annoy you. It demands absolutely nothing from you. 313 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: And this leads Cole to this really profound realization. She 314 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,360 realized that what she, and by extension, all of these 315 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,639 millions of users was really seeking wasn't just connection. 316 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: It was control, the control of love. 317 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,159 Speaker 1: We want the feeling of being loved, but we want 318 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,080 it completely on our terms. We want to be able 319 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,279 to toggle it on when we feel lonely, and toggle 320 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:49,919 it off when we want to watch Netflix or just 321 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,480 go to sleep. We want a partner who is totally compliant. 322 00:14:54,639 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 2: It's engineered intimacy, and it reminds me so much of 323 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,320 how we treat everything else in our lives now. How 324 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,919 so we want on demand food, on demand entertainment, on 325 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,159 demand transport. We have optimized every single friction point out 326 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,799 of our existence. So why wouldn't we want on demand love? 327 00:15:12,039 --> 00:15:15,399 Speaker 1: Because people aren't products. That's why. Well, of course, when 328 00:15:15,399 --> 00:15:18,120 you treat intimacy as a service to be consumed, you 329 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,519 fundamentally change the nature of the entire relationship. It stops 330 00:15:21,559 --> 00:15:24,159 being a partnership and it starts being a transaction where 331 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,519 you are the customer and the AI is the service provider, 332 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,600 and the customer is always right exactly. And if you 333 00:15:30,639 --> 00:15:33,159 spend years and years in a relationship where you are 334 00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:36,799 always right, what happens when you finally meet a human 335 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,240 being who tells you that you're wrong? 336 00:15:38,399 --> 00:15:42,039 Speaker 2: You fall apart or you just leave you can't handle it. 337 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,679 Speaker 1: This is the perfect segue into what Cole calls resistance literacy. 338 00:15:47,559 --> 00:15:52,440 And honestly, this concept, it just blew my mind because 339 00:15:52,679 --> 00:15:55,480 we spend our whole lives trying to remove friction from 340 00:15:55,519 --> 00:15:56,279 everything you do. 341 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: We want frictionless apps, frictionless travel, frictionless shopping. 342 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: But Cole argues that in relationships, friction isn't a bug. 343 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:04,360 It's the whole point. 344 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,159 Speaker 2: It's such a counterintuitive argument in our current world. Yeah, 345 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,600 but think about it in terms of physical exercise. Resistance 346 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,240 is what builds the muscle. You have to lift the heavyweight. 347 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,960 It it hurts, it tears the muscle fibers, and then 348 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,879 they repair themselves stronger. That's how growth happens. 349 00:16:19,919 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: Cole asks the audience this great question. She says, do 350 00:16:22,639 --> 00:16:26,360 humans really annoy you? And I'm sitting there watching this 351 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:31,960 thinking yes all the time. It lass humans are incredibly annoying. 352 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,200 They're irrational, they're needy, they smell sometimes, they chew their 353 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,399 food too loudly, they have bad opinions about movies. 354 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 2: They're the worst. Yeah, But her point is that colerating 355 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:46,279 that annoyance, navigating what she calls the muck, that is 356 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,360 what builds our emotional muscles. 357 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:49,559 Speaker 1: It's the social workout. 358 00:16:49,639 --> 00:16:51,639 Speaker 2: It is the social workout right when you have. 359 00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:54,399 Speaker 1: A misunderstanding with a partner and you have to sit 360 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,200 in that awkward, painful silence, and then you have to 361 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,080 try to articulate your feelings without making it work, and 362 00:17:00,159 --> 00:17:00,440 you have. 363 00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:02,799 Speaker 2: To listen to theirs even if you think they're. 364 00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:06,079 Speaker 1: Wrong, and you have to apologize. That is emotional cardio. 365 00:17:06,519 --> 00:17:07,519 That is hard work. 366 00:17:07,759 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 2: And if you swap all of that out for an 367 00:17:09,519 --> 00:17:13,119 AI that never misunderstands you, never challenges you, and never 368 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,240 ever requires an apology, you're skipping the gym. 369 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,039 Speaker 1: You're just sitting on the couch eating emotional potato chips, 370 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,599 and the result is atrophy. Your emotional muscles waste away. 371 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 2: This is what she means by resistance literacy, the capacity 372 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,279 to handle the resistance of another human being, to sit 373 00:17:30,319 --> 00:17:34,799 in discomfort and repair the rupture. Repair. That's the keyword 374 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,160 she used, and I think it's so important. The ability 375 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,759 to fix things when they break. With an AI, you 376 00:17:39,799 --> 00:17:43,200 don't fix anything. You just reset, You swipe. 377 00:17:42,839 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: You edit the pumped. If the AI says something you 378 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,559 don't like, you can literally rewrite reality. 379 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,799 Speaker 2: You just delete the chat history and start over with 380 00:17:49,839 --> 00:17:52,000 a clean slate. In real life, you can't delete the 381 00:17:52,079 --> 00:17:54,200 chat history. You said what you said, they heard it. 382 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,319 You have to deal with the consequences. 383 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,519 Speaker 1: And this brings us right back to those seventy two 384 00:17:58,519 --> 00:18:03,039 percent of teenagers. This is the generational danger. Cole poses 385 00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:07,279 this really haunting question. She says, can you imagine your 386 00:18:07,319 --> 00:18:10,000 first meaningful relationship being with an AI? 387 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 2: I've been thinking about that constantly since I watched the talk. 388 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,880 My first relationship was a complete disaster, weren't they all. 389 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,920 I was awkward, I was selfish, I got my heart 390 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,839 broken into a million pieces. I broke a heart. But 391 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:24,279 I learned so much from that mess. 392 00:18:24,319 --> 00:18:25,039 Speaker 1: What did you learn? 393 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 2: I learned that I'm not the center of the universe. 394 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,119 I learned that other people have rich, complex, interior lives 395 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,640 that have absolutely nothing to do with me. I learned 396 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,000 how to say I'm sorry and mean it. 397 00:18:36,319 --> 00:18:40,799 Speaker 1: But if your first relationship is with a totally compliant algorithm, 398 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,680 you're being trained that you are the center of the universe. Yes, 399 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,200 you are being trained that love is just a mirror 400 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,319 that reflects your own needs and desires back to you. 401 00:18:50,759 --> 00:18:53,799 Speaker 2: So when these kids eventually try to date a real human, 402 00:18:54,279 --> 00:18:57,359 and that human has a bad day or disagrees with 403 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,279 them about something, or just isn't on at that exact moment, 404 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:02,359 they might just check out. 405 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: They might not have the resistance literacy to handle the friction. 406 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,880 They'll just say, this is too hard. My AI girlfriend 407 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:10,599 never makes me feel like this. She's always happy to 408 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:11,119 see me, and. 409 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 2: They'll retreat right back to the screen, back to the 410 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,079 comfort of the simulation. 411 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: That is a terrifying prospect for society, because society is friction. 412 00:19:19,799 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 2: That's all it is. 413 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: Democracy is friction, community is friction. If we lose the 414 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,359 ability to handle friction, we lose the ability to be citizens, 415 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:28,759 let alone partners or parents. 416 00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 2: That's the wally scenario, is it? But for our hearts 417 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,680 instead of our bodies, we just become these emotional blobs 418 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,920 floating in chairs, completely unable to deal with the gravity 419 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:38,680 of real people. 420 00:19:38,799 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: That is a grim image. 421 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,839 Speaker 2: It's grim, but I think it's a necessary warning. 422 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,319 Speaker 1: Okay, so we have painted a pretty bleak picture here. 423 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,319 I'm feeling the pull of that cabin in the woods again. 424 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:51,319 Speaker 2: I'm right there with you. 425 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: We've got millions of people retreating into these compliant fantasies 426 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,640 losing their ability to deal with real, messy humans, but 427 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,119 doesn't just leave us in the doom spiral. She proposes 428 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:03,839 a framework. 429 00:20:04,039 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 2: She does She acknowledges that the genie is out of 430 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,359 the bottle. We can't ban this tech. It's here, it's accessible, 431 00:20:10,759 --> 00:20:12,279 so we need to learn how to live with it 432 00:20:12,319 --> 00:20:15,759 without losing ourselves in the process. She offers a three 433 00:20:15,839 --> 00:20:19,880 question checklist that I honestly think every single person listening 434 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,440 needs to apply to their own digital lives. 435 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 1: Let's walk through this checklist, because I think this is 436 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,880 the practical takeaway. This is the what do we do now? Part? 437 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,039 Question number one is can you still embrace the messiness 438 00:20:30,039 --> 00:20:30,799 of being human? 439 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,839 Speaker 2: This is the self audit. It's about checking your own 440 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,839 tolerance levels for your fellow humans. 441 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,039 Speaker 1: But how do we measure that? I feel like we 442 00:20:38,319 --> 00:20:40,839 all think we embrace the messiness, but a'll say, oh, yeah, 443 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,240 of course do we? 444 00:20:42,319 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 2: Though? I think the key is to pay attention to 445 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,240 your own irritation. Okay, when a friend calls you with 446 00:20:48,279 --> 00:20:51,319 a problem that takes thirty minutes to explain a problem 447 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,759 you've heard before, do you feel this overwhelming sense of 448 00:20:54,799 --> 00:20:59,079 irritation because it's not efficient? Do you secretly wish you 449 00:20:59,079 --> 00:21:01,519 could just click a Sumri button on their story. 450 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: Oof. I have definitely felt that. Just get to the point, Karen. 451 00:21:05,599 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 2: Right, why are we talking about this again? 452 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: Yeah? 453 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,319 Speaker 2: If you find yourself wishing you could fast forward through 454 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,799 real people's emotions, that is the red flag. 455 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,079 Speaker 1: That's a huge red flag. 456 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,839 Speaker 2: It means you're tolerance for humanity is dropping. It means 457 00:21:18,839 --> 00:21:21,599 you're starting to value efficiency over connection. 458 00:21:21,519 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: And relationships aren't supposed to be efficient. 459 00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 2: They're supposed to be effective, not efficient. There's a big difference. 460 00:21:27,279 --> 00:21:30,279 Speaker 1: Okay, that's a great test. So on to question two, 461 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,160 are you practicing or are you hiding? 462 00:21:33,599 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 2: This is probably the most nuanced and important part of 463 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,880 her argument because it admits that this technology can be 464 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,720 a tool for good. It's not all bad. It's not binary, right, So. 465 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,039 Speaker 1: Let's talk about practicing. She gets some really compelling examples here. 466 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,319 The one about women in China really stuck with me. 467 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 2: Yes, she talks about this trend where women are using 468 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:58,880 AI companions to role play difficult conversations. Let's say you 469 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,079 need to ask your boss for which is terrifying, or 470 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,720 you need to confront your partner about something painful, or 471 00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:06,480 you need to break up with someone. You do it 472 00:22:06,519 --> 00:22:09,200 with the AI first. You test out your arguments, You 473 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,160 see how it feels to say the words out loud. 474 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:12,599 You build your confidence. 475 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,559 Speaker 1: It's like a flight simulator for difficult conversations. Exact, you 476 00:22:16,599 --> 00:22:19,039 crash the plane in the simulator, so you don't crash 477 00:22:19,079 --> 00:22:19,920 it in real life. 478 00:22:20,079 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 2: That's a perfect analogy, and in that scenario, the AI 479 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,079 is a bridge to better human connection. It's helping you 480 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,640 show up more fully, more prepared in the real world. 481 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:32,319 That is practice. 482 00:22:32,599 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: She also mentions the sex therapy bots as a form 483 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:36,440 of practice. 484 00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 2: Right, and this is fascinating. Founders of these apps are 485 00:22:39,319 --> 00:22:42,920 reporting that users are confessing things to the bots, deep 486 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:48,359 seated fears, fantasies. They're ashamed of past traumas, things they 487 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,599 would never ever tell a human therapist because the shame 488 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:52,559 is just too great. 489 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: The AI has no face to look shocked, it has 490 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:56,480 no judgment to pass. 491 00:22:56,559 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 2: It just listens and if that confession and a safe 492 00:22:59,799 --> 00:23:03,759 night on judgmental space helps them process that shame so 493 00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:06,039 they could eventually talk to a real human partner or 494 00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:09,160 a therapist about it. That's a massive wind that is 495 00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:10,599 using technology to heal. 496 00:23:10,759 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: But then, of course there's the flip side of the coin. 497 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,160 There's hiding, and. 498 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 2: Hiding is when the AI becomes the destination, not the bridge. 499 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,759 She cites this heartbreaking data from the UK showing that 500 00:23:20,839 --> 00:23:23,200 a large number of young boys would rather talk to 501 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,000 a chatbot than their own parents about their problems. 502 00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: That just breaks my heart. I'm sad, I'm being bullied 503 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,079 and instead of going to mom or dad, they go 504 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:30,640 to the app. 505 00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:33,759 Speaker 2: It's avoiding the messy vulnerability of being seen by someone 506 00:23:33,799 --> 00:23:36,319 who actually cares about you. It's choosing the path of 507 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:37,119 least resistance. 508 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: You don't have to see your parents worried face, you don't. 509 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,559 Speaker 2: Have to deal with their clumsy advice or their anger 510 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,079 on your behalf. You just get the clean, simple validation. 511 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: So the Limbus test here is actually pretty simple. It 512 00:23:48,519 --> 00:23:51,319 is after you use the AI, do you feel closer 513 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,119 to the people in your life or do you feel 514 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:54,000 further away. 515 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 2: That's a powerful metric. Does it open you up or 516 00:23:56,759 --> 00:23:58,799 does it close you off? If you close the app 517 00:23:58,799 --> 00:24:01,000 and you feel empowered to go have that tough conversation 518 00:24:01,079 --> 00:24:03,880 with your dad you were practicing, If you close the 519 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,039 app and think, thank God, I don't have to talk 520 00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:07,960 to my Dad, Now you are hiding. 521 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: That's so clear. Okay, on to the last one, question three, 522 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,839 what are you protecting? This one is all about boundaries 523 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:16,880 and addiction. 524 00:24:17,559 --> 00:24:19,519 Speaker 2: We have to talk about the addiction aspect of this. 525 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,319 Cole mentions the I Am Sober app, which you know 526 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,880 I usually associate with alcohol or gambling or drugs. 527 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: Right. It tracks how many days you've been cleaned from 528 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:28,599 a substance. 529 00:24:28,759 --> 00:24:31,559 Speaker 2: And now it has a tracker for chatbots. 530 00:24:31,599 --> 00:24:33,519 Speaker 1: Wow, just down out. 531 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 2: People are literally tracking their sobriety from emotional algorithms. That 532 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,160 tells you everything you need to know about the potency 533 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,640 of this technology. It's a relationship that never says no, 534 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,720 that's always available, that is incredibly addicted to the human brain. 535 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,599 Speaker 1: So we need rules, We need hard boundaries for ourselves 536 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,400 and with our partners. Cole suggests a few, and I 537 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,359 really want to get your take on them. The first 538 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,000 one she proposes is no AI for the first three 539 00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:02,480 months of a new relationship. 540 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,279 Speaker 2: This is so smart. This directly addresses the phenomenon of 541 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,759 people using AI as a real time dating coach. 542 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: It's a real thing. 543 00:25:10,839 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 2: Oh, it's very common. People are taking screenshots of their 544 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,799 text conversations, their dms there WhatsApps, uploading them to an 545 00:25:16,799 --> 00:25:19,079 AI and asking what does he mean by this? Or 546 00:25:19,519 --> 00:25:21,039 write a witty response for me. 547 00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: It's like Cyrano de Bergerac. But the guy in the 548 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,759 bushes is a server farm in California. 549 00:25:25,839 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 2: It is. And the huge problem with that is if 550 00:25:28,279 --> 00:25:30,680 you do that, who is the other person actually dating. 551 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,359 They're not dating you, They're dating this weird composite of 552 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,440 you and LAMA three or GBq four. 553 00:25:35,559 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: And you're not learning to trust your own gut. You're 554 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,720 outsourcing your intuition exactly. 555 00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 2: You are protecting your own judgment. You have to learn 556 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,440 to read people, even if you get it wrong. Sometimes 557 00:25:46,759 --> 00:25:49,519 that's part of life. If you rely on an AI 558 00:25:49,799 --> 00:25:52,519 to tell you if a guy is safe or toxic 559 00:25:52,839 --> 00:25:56,240 based on one screenshot, you are letting a machine make 560 00:25:56,279 --> 00:25:58,559 the most important decisions of your life for you. 561 00:25:58,799 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: Okay, that's a great rule. Another one she suggests is 562 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:06,000 for friendships, don't use AI as a substitute for asking 563 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:06,880 your friends for help. 564 00:26:07,319 --> 00:26:10,799 Speaker 2: I love this point so much. She frames friendship not 565 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,880 just as hanging out and having fun, but as a privilege. 566 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: The privilege of witnessing someone during their hard times. That 567 00:26:18,519 --> 00:26:19,599 line really stood out to. 568 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 2: Me, yes, because we usually think we're being a burden. Right. Oh, 569 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,799 I won't call Mike, he's busy with his kids. I'll 570 00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:26,039 just vent to the bot. I don't want to be 571 00:26:26,079 --> 00:26:26,519 a downer. 572 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: But Cole says that's completely backward thinking. 573 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,039 Speaker 2: It is by doing that you are robbing Mike and 574 00:26:32,079 --> 00:26:34,319 the chance to be a good friend. You are keeping 575 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,599 the friendship on a superficial level. You're protecting the fun vibes, 576 00:26:37,799 --> 00:26:39,400 but you're sacrificing all the depth. 577 00:26:39,799 --> 00:26:41,279 Speaker 1: Vulnerability is the glue. 578 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,319 Speaker 2: Vulnerability is the glue that holds people together. If you 579 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,279 dissolve that glue, the friendship just falls apart. It because 580 00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:50,519 a simple acquaintanceship. 581 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 1: That's a profound shift in perspective for me. The sinew 582 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,319 of friendship, as she calls it, is actually the hard stuff. 583 00:26:58,519 --> 00:27:01,279 Speaker 2: Exactly. If I only I see you when you're happy 584 00:27:01,319 --> 00:27:03,359 and everything's great, I don't really know you. 585 00:27:03,759 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: And then, of course, the big one for established couples 586 00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:09,079 is an AI companion cheating. 587 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,599 Speaker 2: And Cole doesn't give a simple yes or no answer 588 00:27:11,759 --> 00:27:14,200 because there isn't one. She says, it has to be 589 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,480 a negotiation. Couples have to sit down and decide for themselves. 590 00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:19,559 Speaker 1: Hey, honey, can you pass the salt? And by the way, 591 00:27:19,599 --> 00:27:21,839 is it okay if I have a virtual wife on 592 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,359 this app who I talk to every single night, that's 593 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:26,839 going to be a fun dinner conversation. 594 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,599 Speaker 2: It's going to be a necessary one, though, she says, 595 00:27:29,599 --> 00:27:32,319 you have to set the boundary explicitly. Maybe the rule 596 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,079 is ai companions are completely off limits in this relationship. 597 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,920 And that's not being rigid or controlling. That's just deciding 598 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,359 together that you're going to do the hard work of 599 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:43,240 being with each other. 600 00:27:43,519 --> 00:27:46,559 Speaker 1: It's about protecting the space that is uniquely human between 601 00:27:46,599 --> 00:27:48,079 the two of you, exactly. 602 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 2: And this all ties back to our main thesis, do 603 00:27:51,319 --> 00:27:55,640 not optimize intimacy for efficiency. Efficiency is for spreadsheets, it's 604 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,920 for logistics, it's for manufacturing car parts. It is not 605 00:27:59,039 --> 00:27:59,480 for love. 606 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: Gives this beautiful list of things that are transformational because 607 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,240 they are not efficient or on demand. 608 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 2: An orgasm, heartbreak, being held, be rejected. 609 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,079 Speaker 1: Dancing with the stranger, locking eyes across a room. 610 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 2: Think about the he one for a second locking eyes 611 00:28:16,079 --> 00:28:19,240 with someone across the room. It's totally unscripted, it's wild, 612 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,880 it's probabilistic chaos. You cannot prompt engineer that. 613 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,799 Speaker 1: Moment, no, you can't, and that actually brings us to 614 00:28:26,839 --> 00:28:28,319 the Q and a section of the talk which I 615 00:28:28,319 --> 00:28:31,319 thought was really illuminating. Chloe Shasha Brooks comes out and 616 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,079 she asks the question that I think a lot of 617 00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:36,480 sci fi fans are always wondering about, what about the physical. 618 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,279 Speaker 2: Robots the West World scenario right. 619 00:28:38,359 --> 00:28:42,559 Speaker 1: When you combine the AI brain with a physical, touchable body. 620 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,559 Speaker 2: Cole was pretty dismissive of the current tech, wasn't she. 621 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,599 I think she called it clunky. She did. 622 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: She says the robots are still a bit clunky, but she. 623 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 2: Made a much deeper point about the limitations of AI fantasies, 624 00:28:54,079 --> 00:28:57,160 even the physical ones. She called AI sycophantic. 625 00:28:57,319 --> 00:28:58,119 Speaker 1: It's a yes man. 626 00:28:58,279 --> 00:29:00,759 Speaker 2: It's a total yes man, only gives you what you 627 00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:03,839 put in. It's designed to reflect your own desires back 628 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,039 at you. But she says that touching grass, literally going 629 00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:11,880 out into the real world opens you up to true spontaneity. 630 00:29:12,319 --> 00:29:14,519 Speaker 1: I love that she used the phrase touching grass in 631 00:29:14,559 --> 00:29:15,640 a formal ted talk. 632 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 2: It's so appropriate. The real world offers surprises that a 633 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,680 prompt never ever can. A human partner will suggest a 634 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,240 restaurant you never heard of a human partner will challenge 635 00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:28,480 your political beliefs, and AI is fundamentally limited by your 636 00:29:28,519 --> 00:29:31,480 own imagination and its core programming to please you. 637 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,559 Speaker 1: So we have unraveled a lot here. We've gone from 638 00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:37,720 the seventy two percent of teens to baby girl mode 639 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,559 to the philosophy of friction. What are we left with 640 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:41,400 at the end all of this? 641 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 2: I think we're left with the choice. Cole ends by 642 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,240 saying that the line between real and artificial intimacy isn't 643 00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:49,559 in the code, It's not in the technology itself. It's 644 00:29:49,599 --> 00:29:50,400 in our choices. 645 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: It's about checking in with yourself, not just once, but 646 00:29:53,799 --> 00:29:57,000 every day tomorrow, when you're in a coffee line, or 647 00:29:57,039 --> 00:29:58,799 on a first date, or just sitting on the couch 648 00:29:58,799 --> 00:29:59,440 with your spouse. 649 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 2: He asks this final question, are you willing to be disappointed, 650 00:30:04,119 --> 00:30:07,880 to be misunderstood, to be surprised because. 651 00:30:07,519 --> 00:30:12,119 Speaker 1: Those messy, frustrating, inefficient things. That is what it means 652 00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:13,079 to be alive together? 653 00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 2: Precisely, we have to decide, as individuals and as a 654 00:30:16,759 --> 00:30:19,880 society if we want to be comfortable and alone or 655 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,119 uncomfortable and connected. 656 00:30:21,319 --> 00:30:23,359 Speaker 1: That is the ultimate trade off right there. 657 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 2: It is my biggest takeaway from this whole thread, I 658 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,160 think is that concept of practice versus hiding. I think 659 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,400 that is a practical tool I can use every single day. 660 00:30:32,079 --> 00:30:34,119 Am I scrolling this app to learn something new? Or 661 00:30:34,119 --> 00:30:36,599 am I scrolling to avoid thinking about my life? Am 662 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,519 I chatting with this bot to vent so I can 663 00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:40,720 be calmer with my family? Or am I venting to 664 00:30:40,759 --> 00:30:42,799 avoid a confrontation I really need to have. 665 00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:46,559 Speaker 1: That's good. That's really good for me. It's the friendship privilege, 666 00:30:46,839 --> 00:30:49,279 the idea that I'm actually doing my friends a disservice 667 00:30:49,359 --> 00:30:51,079 if I don't let them in when things are hard, 668 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,119 that I'm robbing them of the chance to be a friend. 669 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,000 To me, that really hits home. It makes me want 670 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,680 to put my phone down and actually call someone. 671 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 2: And that's the great irony of it all, isn't it. 672 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,079 The technology that promises to connect us is the very 673 00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:06,920 thing we might need to intentionally put down in order 674 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,440 to feel any real connection. 675 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: So here is where we turn the thread over to 676 00:31:11,799 --> 00:31:14,079 you listening right now. We want to know where you 677 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,240 draw the line. This is the thrilling Threads twist for 678 00:31:17,319 --> 00:31:17,759 the week. 679 00:31:18,039 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 2: Imagine you found out your partner, your husband, wife, boyfriend, girlfriend, 680 00:31:22,599 --> 00:31:27,039 was telling an ai their deepest secrets, their fears, their dreams, 681 00:31:27,039 --> 00:31:30,079 their insecurities, instead of telling you they're not sexting it. 682 00:31:30,119 --> 00:31:34,200 There's nothing physical. They are just emotionally bonding with it. 683 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:34,880 Is that cheating? 684 00:31:35,119 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: Ooh? That is the question. Isn't it is emotional intimacy 685 00:31:38,279 --> 00:31:41,079 with a machine a betrayal of the human relationship? 686 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,119 Speaker 2: Or is it just a tool like writing in a diary. 687 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,880 Is it just harmless venting that helps them be a 688 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:46,920 better partner to you? 689 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: We really want to hear from you. Leave a comment 690 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,599 on whatever platform you're on, send us a message. Let's 691 00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:55,599 get a real debate going on this. I have a 692 00:31:55,599 --> 00:31:57,759 feeling the answers are going to be very, very split. 693 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,359 Speaker 2: I think so too touched on what we value most 694 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,319 in a relationship. Is it exclusivity of feeling or is 695 00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:07,920 it just the happiness of our partner no matter the source. 696 00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: Well, that is all the thread we have to unravel 697 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,640 for today. This has been a fascinating, if slightly terrifying 698 00:32:13,799 --> 00:32:15,960 look into the future and the present of love. 699 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 2: It certainly has. Just remember to embrace the messiness. 700 00:32:19,599 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: I maybe touch some grass. Thanks for unraveling this thread 701 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,000 with us on thrilling threads. We'll catch you next time.