Speaker 1: A gentleman who we can call Elon in everybody, at
Speaker 1: least in this country, I know exactly who you're talking about.
Speaker 1: But mister Elon Musk, he's the CEO, lead designer of SpaceX.
Speaker 1: Everyone I think knows this. SpaceX is an amazing commercial company.
Speaker 1: It's the first company to launch commercial rocket and to
Speaker 1: low Earth orbit with their Falcon one launch. Then in
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight they were one of the winners
Speaker 1: of a contract to bring services to the International Space Station,
Speaker 1: the first commercial company to berth with the International Space
Speaker 1: Station bringing supplies. They're also the first commercial company to
Speaker 1: return a sizable return vehicle with all the components still intact,
Speaker 1: which is very important to us, back to the surface
Speaker 1: of the Earth. And so it's an amazing company. Has
Speaker 1: done a great job and continues to push the boundary
Speaker 1: that you'll hear from Elon. But his interest really is
Speaker 1: not so much in lower Earth orbit as it is
Speaker 1: going beyond lower th orbit and making sure humanity will
Speaker 1: continue to live by exploring beyond beyond Earth. Elon has
Speaker 1: a varied history of things that he's been involved in.
Speaker 1: This was this is one of the things that makes
Speaker 1: it so exciting to have this conversation with him today.
Speaker 1: He's not one dimensional space guy. He's involved in Tesla Motors,
Speaker 1: which he is a co founder and CEO, and also
Speaker 1: a major player in the design efforts and what they
Speaker 1: choose to go build and how of course, he was
Speaker 1: a co founder of PayPal and zip too. He's deeply
Speaker 1: involved in a number of other industries as well. And
Speaker 1: so it's my great honor to welcome Elon Muska to
Speaker 1: the stage. Thanks for coming, appreciate it. Okay, well, these
Speaker 1: are great chairs, you guys. Look at those chairs you're in.
Speaker 1: Let's see. So Elon, you've you and I were gonna
Speaker 1: have a little chat this morning. We said it was
Speaker 1: gonna be a fireside chat. So minus the fireside I
Speaker 1: guess we're ready again. I've, as you heard, I've encouraged
Speaker 1: folks to ask a few questions along the way, but
Speaker 1: I have a few, a few questions I thought to
Speaker 1: get us started. So the first one, which is probably
Speaker 1: on everybody's mind, is perhaps you want to discuss a
Speaker 1: little bit about the recent loss of the dragon in
Speaker 1: the Falcon nine here on Space x seven.
Speaker 2: Sure, well, I mean I think it's it's obviously it's
Speaker 2: a huge load to to SpaceX and and or do
Speaker 2: we take these missions incredibly seriously? The investigator, everyone that
Speaker 2: can engage in the investigation of SpaceX is very very
Speaker 2: focused on that. And I in this case, the the
Speaker 2: the data does seem to be quite difficult to interpret,
Speaker 2: Like whatever happened is is clearly not a sort of
Speaker 2: simple straightforward UH thing. So we wanna spend as much
Speaker 2: time as possible just reviewing the data, obviously going over
Speaker 2: it with with NASA and with the FA and with
Speaker 2: the number of other customers, and just sort of seeing
Speaker 2: what to feedback everyone has based on their prior experience,
Speaker 2: to see if we can get to what the uh
Speaker 2: most likely root causes at look at both what we
Speaker 2: think most likely happened and then anything that's a close call,
Speaker 2: and try to uh address all of those things and
Speaker 2: maximize the probably of success for future missions.
Speaker 1: Any hints where you think the problem.
Speaker 2: Lies, well, and I know that this this media and
Speaker 2: the audience, so you have to be fair.
Speaker 1: I never really learned that, but that is a lesson
Speaker 1: working on.
Speaker 2: So so it's yeah, I mean, I you know, the
Speaker 2: I think I think I think we'll be able to
Speaker 2: say something more definitive towards the end of the week.
Speaker 2: At this point, really the only thing that's really clear
Speaker 2: is that there was some kind of over pressure events
Speaker 2: in the upper stage liquid oxygen tank, but the exact
Speaker 2: cause and the sequence of events, there's there's still no.
Speaker 3: Clear theory that fits with all the data.
Speaker 2: So we have to determine if some of the data
Speaker 2: is a measurement error of some kind or whether there
Speaker 2: is actually a theory that matches the sort of what
Speaker 2: what pear to be conflicting data points.
Speaker 1: Okay, very good. I'll just make a comment. The tweets
Speaker 1: you put out regularly, particularly when events like this happen,
Speaker 1: are really useful to everybody. We really do appreciate it.
Speaker 1: You'd be amazed at how many folks quote what you
Speaker 1: said and how glad they are that you just step
Speaker 1: right out and at least give some sign about what's
Speaker 1: going on and that you know we'll get through it.
Speaker 1: Things are going well.
Speaker 2: So we appreciate that absolutely, and for sure, as soon
Speaker 2: as we think we've got a clear line on what
Speaker 2: would happened and we've sort of cross checked it with
Speaker 2: as many experts as we can, and certainly appreciate that
Speaker 2: the feedback from NASAU on this front. Ver very much
Speaker 2: appreciate it. We'll certainly put a put out that story.
Speaker 2: I'm only reticence about saying something quite yet is I
Speaker 2: don't want to say something that subsequently turns out to
Speaker 2: be a miss misunderstanding of the situation.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely understand that. So one of the questions
Speaker 1: that I asked myself regularly is at what point does
Speaker 1: all this government help hurt? So this ha been occurred,
Speaker 1: and we have you have the NASA folks there from
Speaker 1: from about three different programs that intend to use your services,
Speaker 1: ISS being one of them. You have the FAA, that's uh,
Speaker 1: that's involved, the RANGE folks are there without feeling like
Speaker 1: you're giving your customers a hard time? How is that
Speaker 1: interaction and what what should we consider doing differently so
Speaker 1: that we in those areas where we can help, we
Speaker 1: are helpful, and in those those areas where we're really
Speaker 1: keeping you from getting your job done, we can modify ourselves.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Actually, I think the interaction with NASA has been great
Speaker 2: this far. The biggest challenge there there are a lot
Speaker 2: of inquiries coming in simultaneously.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 2: It's it's hard to sort of keep you know, respond
Speaker 2: to respond to everyone right away.
Speaker 3: But but actually it seems to have gone fairly well.
Speaker 2: The biggest thing that's needed in the in the sort
Speaker 2: of short term is the ability to sort of gather
Speaker 2: all the data create a very precise timeline so that
Speaker 2: you know, by by the melosecond we know what each
Speaker 2: sensor was reading, and we can correlate that with the
Speaker 2: ground video and actually, like one of the biggest challenges
Speaker 2: is matching the things to the exact time, you know,
Speaker 2: because when you're talking about you know, a matter of meloseconds,
Speaker 2: you know, being able to say what is the groundtrack
Speaker 2: video compared to the data as received by the you know,
Speaker 2: by by the ground station from the rocket, and then
Speaker 2: taking into account for exactly the actual time taking to
Speaker 2: generate a packet of information. When when was that sensor read,
Speaker 2: when was it encoded into a packet, and when was
Speaker 2: that packet sent to the ground when when you're doing
Speaker 2: in in molliseconds, that all that stuff actually makes quite
Speaker 2: a big difference. So that's the biggest sort of effort
Speaker 2: we've been engaged in thus far, is just putting together
Speaker 2: a super detailed timeline and then just making sure that
Speaker 2: we have this sequence of events down.
Speaker 3: As precisely as possible. That's what we're working on.
Speaker 2: And but but actually, certainly with the interaction we've had
Speaker 2: with with Nason with us has actually been quite good
Speaker 2: thus far, and we've explained that this is what we're doing,
Speaker 2: and then we very much welcome any feedback or input
Speaker 2: or a view of the data that would lead us
Speaker 2: to a better understanding of the circumstances.
Speaker 1: I thought we had a very productive discussion back when
Speaker 1: we had the engine one anomaly, and so I found
Speaker 1: it be very useful. But that's a perspective from NASA perspective,
Speaker 1: so it's always interesting to know your perspective of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems to be quite quite good actually right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're building the last couple of launches you've
Speaker 1: had landing legs, and you've been working on landing the
Speaker 1: first stage back eventually to shore, and you talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about that and which your vision is for
Speaker 1: that and for a SpaceX in general as you go forward.
Speaker 2: Sure, well, the overwatching goal of SpaceX is to try
Speaker 2: to advance the state of space transport, advanced space transport
Speaker 2: technology to the point where well it get as far
Speaker 2: along the path as we can to where space travel
Speaker 2: is hopefully commonplace at some point in the future, and
Speaker 2: where we can send large numbers of people and cargo
Speaker 2: to other planets. And you know, it's like that's the
Speaker 2: sort of thing that needs to happen for humanity to
Speaker 2: have a great future in space. So we want to
Speaker 2: keep pushing that, and I think like to that future
Speaker 2: is reusability.
Speaker 3: So that's why we've worked.
Speaker 2: Quite hard on reusability, and unfortunately we haven't succeeded yet.
Speaker 2: And in fact, the last launch, ironically was we actually
Speaker 2: had the best chance of landing of the vehicle on
Speaker 2: the on the sort of drone ship that's keeping station
Speaker 2: in the Atlantic. So we're actually quite sort of geared
Speaker 2: up for hopefully this would be a really great launch,
Speaker 2: and unfortunately ended up being the opposite. On my birthday
Speaker 2: of all things. It was a real downer, you'll remember
Speaker 2: it though, definitely low point. But but but I do
Speaker 2: think in the in the future launches that that we've
Speaker 2: got a decent chance of landing on the ship and
Speaker 2: then bringing the boostage back to land, and then the
Speaker 2: next challenge, of course, is trying to figure out how
Speaker 2: to efficiently effectively reuse it. And it is designed for
Speaker 2: easy reuse in theory, but we've got to see what
Speaker 2: the stage looks looks like when it comes back in
Speaker 2: one piece. We have been able to over the last
Speaker 2: few years to do a number of vertical takeoff landing
Speaker 2: tests of hardware that's essentially in the flight configuration, so
Speaker 2: we know we can we can handle the terminal phase
Speaker 2: if you know, if things go right, we can take
Speaker 2: off land no problem. So it's just a question of
Speaker 2: completing all the pieces and hopefully later this year won't
Speaker 2: be able to do that, but that that's key. So
Speaker 2: but of course that doesn't address upper stage reuse, but
Speaker 2: it addresses boostage reuse, which is sort of seventy percent
Speaker 2: to eight percent of the of the of the cost.
Speaker 2: And but I think would be a great step towards
Speaker 2: lowering the cost of space transport.
Speaker 1: So you know, if you look at your history, I
Speaker 1: guess zip to PayPal these are largely software type efforts.
Speaker 1: Now you've got Tesla electric cars, you're building a battery plant,
Speaker 1: solar city. I guess you're involved in solar city. So
Speaker 1: why space? It seems space to me and just what
Speaker 1: I rate with you seems to be more of a
Speaker 1: passion than the others or our businesses. But I can't
Speaker 1: tell why space Why are you? Why do you think
Speaker 1: it's important for us to be having access to lowerth orbit?
Speaker 2: Well, the I mean actually technically, I mean with with
Speaker 2: the Tesla and Solar City, they're about helping to solve
Speaker 2: the sustainable energy problem, and so we're trying to make
Speaker 2: progress in that front on with those companies. With with SpaceX,
Speaker 2: it's trying to help solve the space bearing problem. I
Speaker 2: mean I I I think that a a future where
Speaker 2: we're a space baring civilization and a and a multiplanet
Speaker 2: species is very exciting, inspiring, awesome future. And in order
Speaker 2: for that to happen, W we've we've got to dramatically
Speaker 2: improve the.
Speaker 3: Cost of space flight.
Speaker 2: And uh, and that's that's why why space X exists,
Speaker 2: is to try to try to lower the cost of spaceflight, uh,
Speaker 2: which we've made some progress in doing, but still I
Speaker 2: would call up improvements thus far evolutionary, not revolutionary, and
Speaker 2: but with with a lot of continued work, and then
Speaker 2: I think there's the potential for for order of magnitude
Speaker 2: or greater improvements, reasability being key to all of that.
Speaker 2: Of course, and uh yeah, and then hopefully if I
Speaker 2: you know, if we want to see if if we
Speaker 2: can keep improving the the cost of space flight and
Speaker 2: eventually that trend is in the right direction, that could
Speaker 2: be leading to a city on Mars, and certainly along
Speaker 2: the way a lot of activity and low with orbit
Speaker 2: and the Moon and you know, lots of other exciting things.
Speaker 1: So one of the things we're trying to do with
Speaker 1: the International Space Station is try to figure out which
Speaker 1: industries will prosper from the use of lower th orbit
Speaker 1: to try to understand or help grow the economy essentially
Speaker 1: in lower th orbit. And folks who are doing that
Speaker 1: are all taking risks today. Our job is to try
Speaker 1: to reduce the risk as much as we can near
Speaker 1: term so that they can get the information they need
Speaker 1: to really have a business case for the future. But
Speaker 1: everyone's trying to calculate a risk. So is there an
Speaker 1: e Lawn Musk philosophy of risk ursted benefit? And when
Speaker 1: you I think is the right time to jump in?
Speaker 1: I mean, what is your thought on on how to
Speaker 1: approach new industries, innovative areas and when's the right time
Speaker 1: to jump in or not? Or do you just mean
Speaker 1: is there no crystal ball or is it a crystal
Speaker 1: ball or Wiji board. I mean, how do you how
Speaker 1: do you figure out what you should go after?
Speaker 2: Well, definitely the Wigi board of course, much more reliable
Speaker 2: than the crystal ball.
Speaker 3: So the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't really like risk for risk
Speaker 2: sake or anything. It's and I do think that all
Speaker 2: the things are are very risky with a low chance
Speaker 2: of success. But if you want to try to come
Speaker 2: up with an intovertive breakthrough, that's kind of that's going
Speaker 2: to be how it is. Anything which is significantly innovative
Speaker 2: is going to come with a significant risk of failure.
Speaker 2: And but you know, if you've you've got to take
Speaker 2: big chances in order for the potential for a big
Speaker 2: positive outcome. And you know, just if and if if,
Speaker 2: I mean if if the outcome is exciting enough, then
Speaker 2: then taking a.
Speaker 3: Big risk is worthwhile. It's really our approach it.
Speaker 2: But w but then once executing down a path, I
Speaker 2: actually do my absolute best to reduce uh risk, you know,
Speaker 2: cause or or to improve the p another way of saying,
Speaker 2: to improve the pobality of success, because uh, wh when
Speaker 2: you try to do something that is very very risky,
Speaker 2: uh y that you you you you have to spend
Speaker 2: a lot of effort trying to reduce that risk as
Speaker 2: you emblock down that path. I mean when wa when
Speaker 2: it starts SpaceX, the I thought the odds of success
Speaker 2: were very low. I thought we'd most likely fail, but
Speaker 2: I thought, well, we should give it a try. Nonetheless,
Speaker 2: And and then I'm not sure if you know what
Speaker 2: what what preceded SpaceX because the why I got into
Speaker 2: the space.
Speaker 1: I remember, you're trying to purchase a vehicle too, from
Speaker 1: our Russian cor That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: Well, actually it was.
Speaker 2: The reason I got into space was to try to
Speaker 2: increase NASA's budget. The and but so I'll tell you so.
Speaker 2: The roundabout way I thought that might be accomplished was
Speaker 2: I thought, well, if if NASA's budget was more, was larger,
Speaker 2: than we could do more in space exploration. And I thought, well,
Speaker 2: what particularly if we could get the public excited about
Speaker 2: sending people to Mars.
Speaker 3: And I thought, well, if I could.
Speaker 2: Do a small greenhouse and send that to the surface
Speaker 2: of Mars with seasons, nutrient jail, and you hydrate the
Speaker 2: gael and landing you have a little miniature greenhouse and
Speaker 2: then you'd have The public tends to get excited about
Speaker 2: precedents and superlatives. So we like the you know, sort
Speaker 2: of first life on Mars, the furthest lifes ever traveled,
Speaker 2: and you get people sort of excited about, well, but
Speaker 2: where we send people there, like the health of plants,
Speaker 2: we should.
Speaker 3: Send people, you know.
Speaker 2: And and then I thought, well that could If that
Speaker 2: could get the public really excited about sending Keill to Mars,
Speaker 2: then that would translate into congressional support for a bigger
Speaker 2: NASSA budget.
Speaker 3: That was the goal.
Speaker 2: And then I didn't have enough money to buy and
Speaker 2: I thought that that outcome would have a har per
Speaker 2: cent chance of no commercial success.
Speaker 3: So the harp cent chance of losing all the money.
Speaker 2: So so compared to that SpaceX, which I thought maybe
Speaker 2: had a ten percent chances of success, that was an improvement.
Speaker 1: There. You go, well, that makes that makes good sense.
Speaker 1: So are you still thinking about that? Do you remember
Speaker 1: that conversation? This was the idea where you used Martian regulars.
Speaker 1: You send these self contained habitats, if not habitats, and grow.
Speaker 3: Like commuter across or something like that.
Speaker 1: But just to prove the concept, yeah, just to get
Speaker 1: it I mean, the real goal was to get the
Speaker 1: public excited.
Speaker 2: You get some engineering data about what does it take
Speaker 2: to maintain a little habitat on Mars type of thing,
Speaker 2: but the main thing would be to get the public
Speaker 2: excited and you know, get people to be you know,
Speaker 2: the public to be in the paper of a pig
Speaker 2: and ass a budget.
Speaker 3: It's the goal.
Speaker 1: And well, again, God bless you, it's a worthy goal.
Speaker 1: I hope you never saw.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 1: Commercial crew. So you've been selected as one of the
Speaker 1: providers for the commercial crew. Can you tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about where that's headed for you as a company,
Speaker 1: and perhaps maybe how it's affected your company, if it has,
Speaker 1: if it's changed the thing, and how you approach space.
Speaker 2: Things seem to be going fairly well on the commercial
Speaker 2: crew front, I mean the I mean overall. I mean,
Speaker 2: I mean that there are small disagreements here and there,
Speaker 2: but overall, I like, I think we very much agree
Speaker 2: with the way it's being done. And yeah, I think
Speaker 2: it's it's it's pretty pretty good. I mean, there are
Speaker 2: a few things where the like it seems like the
Speaker 2: amount of of sort of massive volume reserved for poop
Speaker 2: is too high. Like sorry, but that's you know, there's
Speaker 2: like little things like that, We're like, well, are they
Speaker 2: really going to do that much group? But it's it's
Speaker 2: quite it's quite large volume, but really it's so but
Speaker 2: I could really they're pretty small disagreements. So I think
Speaker 2: that it seems to be pretty pretty sensible. And and
Speaker 2: then we did the orange board test earlier this year,
Speaker 2: which at the Cave, which actually went pretty well. And yeah,
Speaker 2: so things that are going along getting pretty exciting. And yeah,
Speaker 2: I think there's also some potential use for dragging too
Speaker 2: as a science delivery platform, you know, going to sort
Speaker 2: of delivering payloads to.
Speaker 3: Mars or other places.
Speaker 2: We're in discussion with other parts of NASSA about some
Speaker 2: of those ideas because the propulsive landing, you know, it
Speaker 2: could really lower the cost of getting science instruments to
Speaker 2: various places in the Solar System.
Speaker 3: So that's kind of exciting.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna come back to that in just a second.
Speaker 1: But commercial the crew vehicle versus the Dragon cargo vehicle,
Speaker 1: clearly there are some significant differences. Fairly innovative approach, I
Speaker 1: think to aboart testing, which traditionally you've seen the jess
Speaker 1: and rocket on top that that's a pullar versus the
Speaker 1: pusher technique where you utilize fuel that you otherwise would
Speaker 1: use for the right on orbit, but of course you're
Speaker 1: not going there, so very innovative approach. Are there other
Speaker 1: areas where you feel like you're from an innovation standpoint,
Speaker 1: you're making some significant strides with the crew vehicle?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the the the big items for well,
Speaker 2: the the biggest item really for Dragon two is the
Speaker 2: ability to do a propulsive landing. And it's basically h
Speaker 2: having heavy thrusters on board. So those same heavy thrusters
Speaker 2: can then do the abort but retain the the engines.
Speaker 2: So instead of in a normal sort of crude mission
Speaker 2: like sake to take the Sowyers for example, that have
Speaker 2: a uh a tractor motor on the nose of the
Speaker 2: vehicle that would have to be or basically a rocketential
Speaker 2: on the nose that would have to be discarded on
Speaker 2: every flight, which is a potential reliability issue. And it
Speaker 2: and then you have obviously unable to reuse the the
Speaker 2: the the abort system, and yeah, and it adds it
Speaker 2: adds a bunch of bunch of mass. But but then
Speaker 2: in addition, those same thrusters can be used for propulsive landing,
Speaker 2: so you can achieve a precise propulsive landing which on
Speaker 2: on land or water, which is I think a significant improvement.
Speaker 2: And I mean it's sort of also it's sort of
Speaker 2: like really, I think feels feels more like the future
Speaker 2: to to have that that capability. And then as I
Speaker 2: mentioned it for it can be extended to uh do
Speaker 2: paler delivery to the Moon or Mars or other places.
Speaker 2: Because of the the generalized capability of propulsive landing to
Speaker 2: to land land almost anywhere very good.
Speaker 1: So, uh, let's go back to Dragon. At one point
Speaker 1: you had a conversation talked a little bit bit. It's
Speaker 1: something I think was Virtus Dragon Lab where you go
Speaker 1: to lowerth orbit and do what I assumed was sort
Speaker 1: of kind of research and then bring the vehicle back.
Speaker 1: Are you still pursuing that or something like that. Is
Speaker 1: this an area where you think that there is a potential.
Speaker 2: I think that there is some potential for to essentially
Speaker 2: just take things to loath orbit and then bring them
Speaker 2: bring them back, you know, after a few weeks or
Speaker 2: something like that. It's it's not a huge area of
Speaker 2: attention that's at space X, but I think we might
Speaker 2: do a few missions like that, But yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: Dragon is is very much sort of its primary optimize
Speaker 2: optimization is as a transport vehicle to and from the
Speaker 2: space station and uh and so things like Dragon Lab
Speaker 2: and then the science delivery platform I think are interesting
Speaker 2: extensions of that. And I think as as Dragon to
Speaker 2: first flies and then gets into regular flight, I think
Speaker 2: they'll probably will be some more applications that that people
Speaker 2: can think of, particularly since with Dragon I the reusability
Speaker 2: of the vehicle should be quite high.
Speaker 3: So if we have.
Speaker 2: Reusability of the Dragon spacecraft and reusability of the booster
Speaker 2: and somebody is willing to sort of do a bunch
Speaker 2: of flights with with the fully reused system, there's the
Speaker 2: potential for much lower cost access to space. There is
Speaker 2: a bit of a chicken and egg challenge because, like
Speaker 2: the there's a certain amount of fixed costs that.
Speaker 3: Have to be.
Speaker 2: Carried no matter what, So the the module costs of
Speaker 2: launch or the cost of each subsequent launch can drop
Speaker 2: quite significantly. So long as the launch rate per year
Speaker 2: is high, it stays up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course I'd add some other challenges to the system. Yeah,
Speaker 1: trying to fly as often as you as you.
Speaker 3: Need to make that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, let's see. I don't want to bore everybody
Speaker 1: with all my questions. And we talked about if folks
Speaker 1: had any questions in the audience, let's see this. Oh,
Speaker 1: well they're not bashful. That's good. So I don't know
Speaker 1: if we're gonna need microphones. But but I'll start here.
Speaker 4: I would like to ask question.
Speaker 5: My question.
Speaker 6: Because you are like a kind of mentor and visionary,
Speaker 6: and you give hope to a lot of people around
Speaker 6: the globe because when they see you, they realize that
Speaker 6: they can realize their dreams. But my question is different
Speaker 6: when you are a dreamer, when you are when you
Speaker 6: are a dreamer, when you are a visionary. Of course
Speaker 6: you have your vision, but there are moments that sometimes
Speaker 6: maybe you stop believing in this vision, especially in the
Speaker 6: moments of some problems or failure. So could you tell me,
Speaker 6: and could you tell also to thousands of people who
Speaker 6: maybe will be motivated by your answer? What keeps you
Speaker 6: fighting for your vision? What helps you to reach your gym?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think I'm kind of constitutionally just
Speaker 2: heared to just keep going.
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's a yeah, I mean, it just
Speaker 3: I I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean it, certainly there are times when things don't
Speaker 2: go well and then that's quite desperating, for sure, and
Speaker 2: so then it's it's difficult to proceed with the same
Speaker 2: level of enthusiasm. But but I do think, like I
Speaker 2: do think the things that we're doing are you know,
Speaker 2: pretty important to the future. And if we don't succeed,
Speaker 2: then you know, there's well it's not clear what other
Speaker 2: things would succeed. And if we don't succeed, then we
Speaker 2: will be certainly pointed to as a reason why people
Speaker 2: shouldn't even try for these things. So I think it's
Speaker 2: important that we do whatever's necessary to keep going.
Speaker 3: Okay, And last question, last question.
Speaker 6: You know, so in two thousand and four, when you
Speaker 6: are going to burn you men with your cousin, you
Speaker 6: were thinking there is a sum and let's make energy
Speaker 6: out of it. And I would like to ask you
Speaker 6: why do you believe so in solar energy and clean
Speaker 6: tech energies and also in sustainable energy. And the last
Speaker 6: question I will not ask any more questions. What will
Speaker 6: be the role of solar in the exploration of Mars.
Speaker 2: Sure, I think the solar energy is probably fairly significant
Speaker 2: for Mars, and what's gonna be quite important is having
Speaker 2: a very lightweight solar system that you know both well
Speaker 2: eumetrically and graphometrically dance. So actually you were sort of
Speaker 2: playing with the different concepts, like you know that like thing,
Speaker 2: that party thing where you've inflated and it rolls out.
Speaker 2: But the thing, like what one of the solar concepts
Speaker 2: is is to have like a big role that you
Speaker 2: just basically inflate and it rolls out with with with
Speaker 2: like really thin solar panels on it. But but it's
Speaker 2: it's gonna be pretty important because really you either got
Speaker 2: to do that or nuclear, and you know nuclear has
Speaker 2: has its challenges, but but for solar, it's it's pretty straightforward.
Speaker 2: So I think I think solo is very important to
Speaker 2: the future exploration Mars for sure.
Speaker 6: So thank you, and I wish you that your next
Speaker 6: birthday is very successful.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go, let's go. Okay, go ahead, BELTI.
Speaker 3: My name is Valentina.
Speaker 7: Nowref I'm from the United Rocket and Space Corparation, which
Speaker 7: shortly will become a part of State Coparation Ross COSTMOS.
Speaker 7: So I made this one question to the West because
Speaker 7: I'd like to ask one question of you n Mask
Speaker 7: what is his secret to become a successful businessman in
Speaker 7: the space industry, and then coming back to Russia to
Speaker 7: tell Russian businessman there.
Speaker 3: Is a way to become a taikoon and space industry.
Speaker 7: So seriously speaking, I'd like to ask you when you
Speaker 7: started your business, was the government your partner? Was it
Speaker 7: useful in what areas? And so there are always two
Speaker 7: sides on is it going? Sure as they there were
Speaker 7: times when you had to fight to bureaucracy, thank you sure?
Speaker 2: Well, well, I should say with respect to starting a
Speaker 2: space business, it's definitely not the easiest environment to start
Speaker 2: a business. And I think if most people were to
Speaker 2: rank order what's the highest retinent investment, I mean, space
Speaker 2: would not be very good. I mean it's I'm very
Speaker 2: pro space, so it's like I you know, but it's
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just true that like if you you know,
Speaker 2: start a hedge fund, or if you're like many other industries,
Speaker 2: then it's much easier to make money than the space industry.
Speaker 2: This is not the easiest one to make money. And
Speaker 2: it's yeah, car industry also quite difficult. So so the
Speaker 2: ifact I mean when starting SpaceX, the the joke I
Speaker 2: heard the jokes this joke so often it was ridiculous.
Speaker 2: The joke was how do you make a small portion
Speaker 2: in the space industry, and the punch line, of course
Speaker 2: being started with a large one. Yeah, And I got
Speaker 2: to a point I heard the joke so many times
Speaker 2: that I would just get to the punchline and say like, well,
Speaker 2: I wanted to figure out how to turn a large fortune,
Speaker 2: just more one.
Speaker 3: That was my goal, And they're like, wow, how did
Speaker 3: you know that?
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean I do think there's that there
Speaker 2: is an opportunity in space, but but it is, it's
Speaker 2: it's it's it's tough going. I think if but I
Speaker 2: think if if, if SpaceX and other companies can can
Speaker 2: lower the cost of transport to orbits and perhaps beyond,
Speaker 2: then there's a lot of potential for entrepreneurship at the destination.
Speaker 2: I mean you can think of it like the like
Speaker 2: the Union Pacific Railway. You know, before there was the
Speaker 2: Univercific railway, it was real hard to have commerce between
Speaker 2: the West coast and the East coast by wagon or
Speaker 2: a really long sailing journey. But once there was the transport,
Speaker 2: then there were huge opportunities. And now look at sort
Speaker 2: of you know, the California and Washington State and all
Speaker 2: the industries that have been created in Silicon Valley and Hollywood.
Speaker 2: But you've got to have that fundamental transport element otherwise
Speaker 2: there's just it's really tricky. So we're trying to establish
Speaker 2: that transport element, make it easier to get to lowerth
Speaker 2: orbit and hopefully in the future, make it easier to
Speaker 2: get to the Moon or Mars. And I'm an idea
Speaker 2: of this long term vasion of like if there was
Speaker 2: affordable transport to a place like Mars, I think the
Speaker 2: entrepreneurial opportunities would be phenomenal, you know, because there'd be
Speaker 2: people that would want to create everything from the first
Speaker 2: pizza joint to the first iron ore factory. To be
Speaker 2: like just an enormous amount of opportunity for people to
Speaker 2: create things on Mars. And that'd be different things on Mars.
Speaker 2: Some of the things on Mars will be different they
Speaker 2: wouldn't even imagine on Earth. It would be very exciting.
Speaker 2: So I think that's that's really key to making things
Speaker 2: happen in space is you've got to have someplace. You've
Speaker 2: gotta have some place to go in some place in
Speaker 2: some way to get there.
Speaker 1: So so along those lines, did you read Andy Weare's
Speaker 1: book The Marshal?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, it was good.
Speaker 1: What did you think I thought it was.
Speaker 2: It was pretty excellent, certainly one of the more most
Speaker 2: realistic books on Mars that that I've read. I mean, like,
Speaker 2: there were a few things, like the wind force on
Speaker 2: Mars is not really that high. It's not going to
Speaker 2: knock you over or anything. It's high obviously high velocity,
Speaker 2: but low force. But overall I thought it was pretty cool.
Speaker 2: And apparently it's been made into a movie and everything.
Speaker 1: So you don't have a cameo on that one too.
Speaker 3: I don't have a cameo on that one. I'm a
Speaker 3: little worried that it might not make people too keen
Speaker 3: on going to Mars like this, this looks really hard.
Speaker 2: I think we need to show about how Mas is
Speaker 2: awesome and it's like the wild West and you got
Speaker 2: the gunslingers and like the cool cowboys.
Speaker 3: And that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: All right, maybe you got to write a book too.
Speaker 1: Let's either's a question over here.
Speaker 8: Hi there, my name is Anita Goel. I'm here at
Speaker 8: out of Harvard and MIT. You run a company called
Speaker 8: Nanobiosim so in your vision and dream to achieve low
Speaker 8: cost space travel. How do you allocate your investments between
Speaker 8: engineering and essentially driving down the cost of existing technology
Speaker 8: versus investing in new breakthrough physics things like breakthrough propulsion
Speaker 8: physics anti gravity. What's your vision in the bifurcation of
Speaker 8: those two kinds of portfolios.
Speaker 2: Well, we don't spend a ton of time on new physics.
Speaker 2: I mean the I I think with g with current physics,
Speaker 2: this this huge potential. So rather than rely on a breakthrough,
Speaker 2: which we you know, really it's difficult to envision what
Speaker 2: that breakthrough would exactly be, or even I and exactly
Speaker 2: be the w I I'm quite confident that with what
Speaker 2: we know of current physics, sort of just going with
Speaker 2: the kind of you know, where the standard model of
Speaker 2: physics is today, that there are dramatic improvements possible.
Speaker 3: In space light.
Speaker 2: And I think with the you know, simply with with Falcon, iine,
Speaker 2: I think we make improvements. And then with our next
Speaker 2: generation rocket system, which is still you know, many years away,
Speaker 2: that'll be a a deep cryo METHALOCKX system, I think
Speaker 2: I think we can achieve full reusability and that that's
Speaker 2: really that's a that's a huge potential for w you
Speaker 2: know it, like maybe a two order of magnitude reduction
Speaker 2: in the cost of spaceline. So as far as R
Speaker 2: and D is concerned, like we we we we we
Speaker 2: we hire great engineers as fast as we can find them.
Speaker 2: So it's like the it's not that easy to find,
Speaker 2: but I should say great issue is with the sort
Speaker 2: of like the right mindset and everything.
Speaker 3: We we hire at the at.
Speaker 2: The maximum rate that we can find people that we
Speaker 2: think would would really be an asset to the team.
Speaker 3: So there's no limitation on the Okay, we're here. Hi.
Speaker 4: My name is Zachary Maltson, a student from uh Babson College.
Speaker 4: I just wanna say it's an honor to be here.
Speaker 4: I read Ashley Nancy's biography about you. One thing that
Speaker 4: really was intriguing to me was the super Draco engine
Speaker 4: for the Dragon V two that was used to printed
Speaker 4: out of three D technology to the vision using that
Speaker 4: technology more in the future and when you first splace
Speaker 4: exploration and do you think they'll how about affect the
Speaker 4: costs in terms of getting to Mars everything like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So, as you lud to, we we we actually
Speaker 2: print the super Draco engines so that they're printed out
Speaker 2: of titanum in a canal, and and that actually allows
Speaker 2: us to reduce the cost of those engines quite a bit,
Speaker 2: in particular because we can print integral cooling channels. So
Speaker 2: when you've got an hour glass chamber and you've got
Speaker 2: cooling channels in the wall of the chamber, where the
Speaker 2: whole wall consists of cooling channels, it's only quite difficult
Speaker 2: to create that.
Speaker 3: Thrust chamber and nozzle.
Speaker 2: Because you've got to create an inner jacket outer jacket
Speaker 2: kind of machine the inner jacket it's and then raise
Speaker 2: the whole thing together. It's real pain, and you've got
Speaker 2: a bunch of joints in there to make it all work.
Speaker 2: So with printing, you can print something that you can't
Speaker 2: make by any other means, so it actually ends up
Speaker 2: being lighter and cheaper than if we're built it by
Speaker 2: traditional methods. For our next generation engine, the which we
Speaker 2: call the the Raptor, which which has mentioned is sort
Speaker 2: of a it's it's a s it's a deep cryo methologus.
Speaker 2: So what I'm mean by that is the the methane
Speaker 2: and oxygen are cool to close to their freezing points,
Speaker 2: so not not far from the freezing point as opposed
Speaker 2: to close to their walling point, which is more which.
Speaker 3: Is normally the case.
Speaker 2: Uh the uh, you know w with that engine. Uh,
Speaker 2: we're trying to print as much as possible. It's it's
Speaker 2: a bit the The biggest limitation on free printing right
Speaker 2: now is the the size envelope. So there's a limit
Speaker 2: on how big we can print something. But we're able
Speaker 2: to print the the turbopump components and much of the
Speaker 2: injected not the whole thing, but many of the critical
Speaker 2: parts we can print, so that actually helps us in
Speaker 2: speeding up the development. So instead of waiting to pull
Speaker 2: castings to be developed, which can take several months, and
Speaker 2: then if the casting is wrong, you've got to iterate
Speaker 2: in the casting, and each iteration we can take several months.
Speaker 2: With printing, we can have.
Speaker 3: Those iterations can be reduced to a matter of weeks
Speaker 3: or months, so that that actually helps with the speed
Speaker 3: of developments as well. See are we here? Hi?
Speaker 9: I'm Ross Spungehock with a company called High Orbit. I
Speaker 9: wondered if you'd give it could give us a little
Speaker 9: bit of an update on what's going on with the
Speaker 9: hyper loop and is there any overlap between the worker
Speaker 9: doom of SpaceX and hyper loop technology.
Speaker 3: Yeah, SpaceX is not.
Speaker 2: Neither I nor SpaceX are doing anything to try to
Speaker 2: commercialize the hype loop. There are two, I think at
Speaker 2: least two, maybe more than two companies that have formed
Speaker 2: that are completely independent of me or SpaceX that are
Speaker 2: working towards commercializing the high loop technology or high bloop
Speaker 2: idea or design. What what SpaceX is doing is We're
Speaker 2: going to just create a little student competition for for
Speaker 2: higher loop ideas, so kind of like around the way
Speaker 2: that Formula SAE works, where students can come up with
Speaker 2: a design and compete against each other to design the
Speaker 2: best pod. So what what SpaceX will do is just
Speaker 2: construct about a mile long uh low pressure tube near
Speaker 2: nearly vacuum tube basically in which students can kind of
Speaker 2: raise their pods. So it's just basically to support get
Speaker 2: get students excited about engineering. That's the That's the only
Speaker 2: involvement of SpaceX myself with the hyperlib at this point.
Speaker 10: Okay, ok here, Well, I'm Paula Kastagno, mus sociologist, and
Speaker 10: I'm writing a book about the International Space Station. How
Speaker 10: would you describe the scientific value of the International Space
Speaker 10: Station and where would you draw the line between luxury
Speaker 10: and need when it comes to space exploration.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean for space I mean I really spend
Speaker 2: all of my time thinking about just how to get
Speaker 2: to the space station.
Speaker 3: To be honest, I've I.
Speaker 2: I actually hadn't even really seen a proper movie of
Speaker 2: the inside of the space station until I went to
Speaker 2: see the preview of the new Imax thing that's coming out.
Speaker 2: And it's amazing, Like when that Space Station Imax movie
Speaker 2: comes out, people are gonna have blown away.
Speaker 3: It's awesome.
Speaker 2: I actually brought my whole team at SpaceX to go
Speaker 2: see the preview of the of the IMAX movie. And
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a It is a very unique laboratory
Speaker 2: because this is the only thing that's in sort of microgravity,
Speaker 2: that's above the Earth's atmosphere, and you can learn a
Speaker 2: lot about basically human physiology, uh and do experiments that
Speaker 2: you can't really do an any other lab, and you know,
Speaker 2: and you can have to bring scientists up and they
Speaker 2: can actually work in this incredibly unique lab.
Speaker 3: So I think that there's a lot to be gained there.
Speaker 2: And and I think it's just you can't sort of,
Speaker 2: you know, ignore the coolness factor of it, Like that's
Speaker 2: like people think it's pretty cool.
Speaker 3: So I think it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: And you know, the public want to have something going
Speaker 2: on in space that that involves people, and yeah, and
Speaker 2: it's it's just it's the coolest thing going on in space.
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of valute that.
Speaker 1: You know, we've tried to to sells the wrong word.
Speaker 1: It's the word we use, but sells really the wrong word.
Speaker 1: We're trying to get people to recognize that there's a
Speaker 1: platform in Lowers orbit and that this is important. What's
Speaker 1: done in Lower's orbit has benefit to those of us
Speaker 1: on Earth that will never actually go to space. But
Speaker 1: in doing that, you're trying to get their interest level,
Speaker 1: and part of their interest level is the cool factor
Speaker 1: that you talked about. And I've always kind of struggled
Speaker 1: with that being sort of black and white. I understand
Speaker 1: the purpose in my head, that's why I joined NASA, right,
Speaker 1: But over the years, this is one of the things
Speaker 1: that I've started to recognize is important. So my question
Speaker 1: to you is, did we I've heard a rumor that
Speaker 1: for the suits for commercial crew that you wanted to
Speaker 1: play and role in that and so is that true?
Speaker 1: And and is there some reason behind the design of
Speaker 1: the suit that you want to personally be involved in
Speaker 1: other than cruise safety.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think we've actually spent a lot of effort on
Speaker 2: the space suit design, on the both the functionality and
Speaker 2: the aesthetics. But I think just just getting it's actually
Speaker 2: really hard because if you just sort of optimize functionality,
Speaker 2: it's one thing. If you optimize for aesthetics, it doesn't work,
Speaker 2: Like you know, there's things that they don't work. So
Speaker 2: the so it's like, okay, how do we make something
Speaker 2: that looks cool, antworks and with with with a key
Speaker 2: goal here of being being that you know, when people's
Speaker 2: see that spaceically, they want them to think, yeah, I
Speaker 2: want to wear that thing one day.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that looks awesome. So that that's that's the reason
Speaker 3: for it.
Speaker 1: Very good. Let's see, we'll do a couple more questions
Speaker 1: and then let's let's can we get back in the
Speaker 1: back here or do we have somebody else here already
Speaker 1: with the microphone? All right, go ahead, thank you.
Speaker 5: I'm Alex Pearlman. I'm with Boston Magazine and I'm writing
Speaker 5: for Advice today. I was hoping that you could give
Speaker 5: us a little bit of an update on the most
Speaker 5: recent news with the idea of putting satellites to provide
Speaker 5: Internet to developing countries and unconnected people.
Speaker 3: Thanks. Sure.
Speaker 2: So we're still at the early stages of it's sort
Speaker 2: of a big LEO constellation communication idea, and we're hopeful,
Speaker 2: hopefully going to launch get a test satellite next year
Speaker 2: and what I I think the long term potential of
Speaker 2: it is pretty pretty great. But I don't want to
Speaker 2: overplay or overstate, you know, things quite you know this,
Speaker 2: you know, or any stage of the game really. But
Speaker 2: the long term goal is to create a comprehensive global
Speaker 2: communication system that's that provides high bandwidth, low latency connectivity
Speaker 2: anywhere in the world and provides cross links through the
Speaker 2: satellites so that you can have improved long distance Internet.
Speaker 3: It's one of the things that.
Speaker 2: Sort of your lize when you look at this is
Speaker 2: that you can actually have a more direct path through
Speaker 2: space and you can and photons move faster. I mean,
Speaker 2: depending upon what fiber optic material they're running through, photons
Speaker 2: actually move about forty to fifty percent faster in vacuum
Speaker 2: than they do in fiber optic cables. And if you
Speaker 2: look at the way that the fiber optic cables go,
Speaker 2: they trace the outlines of the continents and they go
Speaker 2: through many repeaters and routers and everything. So if you
Speaker 2: want to say, communicate from a server in California to
Speaker 2: one in South Africa, it's a very very long route
Speaker 2: and sort of very roundabout path, and it's a high latency,
Speaker 2: low photonic speed, and you could actually have that communication
Speaker 2: be quite a bit faster if it's in space. So
Speaker 2: I think there's there's the potential for for doing a
Speaker 2: fair bit of long distance UH Internet activity as well
Speaker 2: as providing.
Speaker 3: Bandwidth broadly.
Speaker 2: But it's also worth saying that a lot of companies
Speaker 2: have UH tried this and kind of broken their pick
Speaker 2: on it, and I think we want to be really
Speaker 2: careful about how we delivered, about trying to make this
Speaker 2: thing work and not not overextend ourselves. So we're being
Speaker 2: s We're being, you know, fairly careful about it. But
Speaker 2: I I do think this is something that should be
Speaker 2: built and would be quite good to have. Well in
Speaker 2: our case, the the communications technology would be substantially more
Speaker 2: advanced in the past with say attemps like teledesic. The
Speaker 2: the the electronics of the day were very low bandwidth,
Speaker 2: I mean really analog or barely digital, and they weren't
Speaker 2: very high bandwidth. So she said it really didn't compete
Speaker 2: with stage with terrestrial phones. In the case of telogies,
Speaker 2: they were looking to compete with or or to address
Speaker 2: cellular needs. That the system we're talking about would not
Speaker 2: attempt to compete with cellular needs. So for example, it
Speaker 2: wouldn't compete directly with say iridium, which is which w
Speaker 2: which can talk directly to a handset. Our system would
Speaker 2: seem to would seek to talk to a small user
Speaker 2: terminal that's about the size of a pizza box.
Speaker 3: Or much like you know current dishes that are the
Speaker 3: satellite dishes.
Speaker 2: But it will be flat because we have faced ray
Speaker 2: antenna that's tracking the satellites. But you could mount it
Speaker 2: in a window or just anywhere outside as long as
Speaker 2: you can see the sky, it would work.
Speaker 1: See back here, we'll take our last question back here.
Speaker 11: Hey Elon, thanks for coming out. I would like to
Speaker 11: show you we brought a virtual reality camera here to
Speaker 11: record for the first time. We have a small start
Speaker 11: up in San Francisco called Space VR, and we believe
Speaker 11: that virtual reality is the future of space exploration because
Speaker 11: you can put people on the very cutting, the very
Speaker 11: front of every every exploration mission. Is that something that
Speaker 11: you've given much thought or have any opinions on?
Speaker 2: Well, I've I've gone, I've perceived the vircual reality demos
Speaker 2: at uh Oculus and at Valve, and it's pretty impressive.
Speaker 2: You can sort of imagine if that's extra late into
Speaker 2: the future, it's really gonna super feel like you're there.
Speaker 2: And I wonder if some people are never gonna wanna
Speaker 2: take that all honestly, you know, it's like it's pretty
Speaker 2: I mean it, it's pretty entrancing. But I I I
Speaker 2: do think it'd be quite exciting to do that for
Speaker 2: a space as well. Yeah do you do you have
Speaker 2: a set up here?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Okay, it's right there. Wow, Okay, yeah cool? Okay,
Speaker 3: w where are you based in? W Where? But where
Speaker 3: you based? Okay?
Speaker 2: I think maybe today is going to be tricky. But
Speaker 2: but but maybe if since you're based in California, I
Speaker 2: could we could range something, you know, in the coming weeks.
Speaker 1: All right, let's see elon we'll uh, we'll call it
Speaker 1: a conference. I wanted to first thank you very much.
Speaker 1: You've been very genius with your time and we you
Speaker 1: know from the moment I called you, you were all in.
Speaker 1: And uh, it's really this open conversation and your your
Speaker 1: thoughts on on the on what's in front of us
Speaker 1: that really excites us all in this room. So thank
Speaker 1: you very much for your time. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks a.
Speaker 1: Thanks, thanks for listening.
Speaker 3: See you in the next episode.