Speaker 1: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Joker Retrospective.
Speaker 1: I am the clown Prince of podcast Tres Snail and
Speaker 1: I'm joined by.
Speaker 2: I'm the Clown comas I am the Murray Taylor Field.
Speaker 1: Yeah, threw me off because usually we're doing like a
Speaker 1: series of retros, or we're.
Speaker 3: Doing you know, oh, it's our you know, our annual,
Speaker 3: our annual Halloween Annual anal. It's our anal retrospective.
Speaker 1: We're watching the top ten anal videos on X videos.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: That's Arthur Fleck was doing now, And if he had
Speaker 1: the Internet, that would just he wouldn't have been a criminal.
Speaker 1: He would just been watching, just like he would have
Speaker 1: been in the weird stuff though he had been watching
Speaker 1: like the mom steps on type of stuff, like the
Speaker 1: relationships he got's going on with his mom, right.
Speaker 3: Like weird weird guy, we're gonna talk about that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, usually it's a retro that's like, oh, we're
Speaker 1: back to this, we're doing this today, but no, this
Speaker 1: is a the second time we're doing this this year
Speaker 1: or the ever in geek for his history that we've
Speaker 1: never retro.
Speaker 3: To movie that we review. We did that with Deadpool.
Speaker 3: I did Pool too early.
Speaker 1: We did it as like a combined episode earlier this
Speaker 1: year because as we said when we started gig first,
Speaker 1: we're never gonna retro something that's not five years older
Speaker 1: or something we hadn't done before, and so Joker has
Speaker 1: now it's been five years. But also, as I said
Speaker 1: on the news, I'm always down to talk Joker.
Speaker 3: It's been a minute.
Speaker 1: But Taylor and Kirklan, we're not on the actual original
Speaker 1: review for Joker. I don't know where those gentlemen were
Speaker 1: at the time, but uh, it was myself Dylan Break.
Speaker 1: So technically we have talked bus talk about gold Geeks,
Speaker 1: but we're re talked about.
Speaker 3: Plus we got some trivia.
Speaker 1: And anything that might come up to because we do
Speaker 1: the predictions episodes, So check out the newscast where we
Speaker 1: have predictions. TA has a great chat GPT, a very
Speaker 1: central chat GPT for this one.
Speaker 3: There's some throbbing going on.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but even watching this, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's some stuff that I because I didn't watch before
Speaker 1: the prequel or the predictions, there's some stuff from like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm sure in conversation we'll talk about like what could
Speaker 1: they do in the sequel at this and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeahda but uh kurking pats are I will start with
Speaker 1: you because you were basically trying to review last night
Speaker 1: a newscast. What did you think about it when you
Speaker 1: saw it originally? And what do you think about now?
Speaker 1: Any change up or down? Exact same thoughts.
Speaker 3: Floor is yours.
Speaker 2: It is part two of my retro that I started
Speaker 2: up yesterday.
Speaker 3: Ye go back the first parts there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, going back twenty nineteen when I watched this in theaters,
Speaker 2: I remember just totally being like disturbed. I feel like
Speaker 2: this movie is, at least for myself, it left me
Speaker 2: very just with a yucky feeling like it is a
Speaker 2: really heavy film that isn't just you know, it's no
Speaker 2: thor Ragnarok. You don't you just put on to have
Speaker 2: a good time and you can just you can just
Speaker 2: do whatever, Like I'm not putting this onto the background
Speaker 2: ever when I'm vacuuming my house, Like this is just
Speaker 2: just I don't know. I feel like there's a lot
Speaker 2: of heavy stuff in this in this movie, but that
Speaker 2: also just speaks to like them completely nailing the target,
Speaker 2: Like like I like totally what they are going for.
Speaker 2: Joaquin feels not like walking like he feels like a
Speaker 2: completely different character. He feels like Arthur Fleck and with
Speaker 2: everything with his mannerisms with it, like, just man, what
Speaker 2: a performance. And I can definitely appreciate the quality, but yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not one that I was like racing to rewatch.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I hadn't revisited it since then until uh yeah,
Speaker 2: just on Monday there when I when I watched it
Speaker 2: for the first time since.
Speaker 1: And uhcast, so you've only seen it twice now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I only seen it twice, and I will say
Speaker 2: on this second viewing, they definitely still let me feel lucky.
Speaker 2: But I feel like, maybe I don't know, I could
Speaker 2: handle it a little bit more. Maybe I just knew
Speaker 2: what was coming. Yeah, on a second viewing, like I
Speaker 2: don't know, we'll go into it when we get there,
Speaker 2: but I still think it's totally a masterpiece it. It
Speaker 2: also was a lot more on the musical lines than
Speaker 2: I was expecting, Like there's no song in dance, Well
Speaker 2: there kind of is, but there's no like it being
Speaker 2: a musical where he starts singing, but a lot of dancing,
Speaker 2: and I feel like the music right, yeah, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: So I feel I feel like the music is a
Speaker 2: big aspect actually of this movie. And uh, it's not
Speaker 2: like you know, now that I've seen it, it's like, okay, no,
Speaker 2: I can totally see why the sequel could be like
Speaker 2: a musical. I'm I was still open to the idea,
Speaker 2: especially that Lady Gaga is going to be a big
Speaker 2: part of it. But I don't know. It just it
Speaker 2: just seems like a natural progression of the story. Like
Speaker 2: it's so yeah, I am very like, just so much
Speaker 2: more excited now for the sequel and yeah, no, really
Speaker 2: good time. I'm excited to unpack with you guys because
Speaker 2: I hadn't had the chance to do that on air since.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and because I'm gonna say this because I don't
Speaker 1: want to forget.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to my overalls.
Speaker 1: But that's something too that I know some people it
Speaker 1: was a debate when the movie came out. The stairs,
Speaker 1: the scene where he goes down the stairs, right and
Speaker 1: you got Gary Glitter's like rock and roll. I know
Speaker 1: there's tons of people that hate that, right, They rather
Speaker 1: just be the score. But I've always said the reason
Speaker 1: I like that is because in his head it's rock
Speaker 1: and roll music. But you make the transition to like
Speaker 1: the dark ominous score by a great job I can't remember,
Speaker 1: I can't pronounce her last name, but Hilder like it's
Speaker 1: this dark onmos score. So for me, it's always like
Speaker 1: in his head, he's like a rock star, but when
Speaker 1: you look at real life, it's like, no, this is
Speaker 1: a really tragic thing that's happening right. He's sending in
Speaker 1: the madness. So it's kind of like what we thought
Speaker 1: this musical was gonna be right with him and Harley,
Speaker 1: where they're gonna have these big, grandiose numbers because they're
Speaker 1: in love or they're going through this crazy experience, these
Speaker 1: high highs, but in real life, like even the trailer,
Speaker 1: I think they have that moment where they're dancing in
Speaker 1: a musical number and they switch over to them dancing
Speaker 1: in like a rainy Gotham, there's like destruction behind them,
Speaker 1: Like it kind of fits where this is like I
Speaker 1: think the musical might take what happened on the stairs,
Speaker 1: but like Times at by ten as far as okay,
Speaker 1: instead of just like a different track of music, you're
Speaker 1: gonna see Arthur seeing like a whole different set piece
Speaker 1: and characters and moments and all that stuff. So it
Speaker 1: is a it's a good observation. Yeah, even just like
Speaker 1: first time he kills someone, he's dancing in a bathroom,
Speaker 1: you know, so it's like, you know, there's there's some
Speaker 1: them there.
Speaker 4: So Taylor, Yeah, this, like I said before in our predictions,
Speaker 4: the news episode over this week, this episode or sorry,
Speaker 4: this movie. I really really like it. I saw it
Speaker 4: twice in theaters.
Speaker 5: I just bought the hard copy as soon as it
Speaker 5: came out.
Speaker 4: I just really really loved what they did with it
Speaker 4: and this character, and it was It's been a while
Speaker 4: since I've actually rewatched it, And so last night after
Speaker 4: our newscast, I put it on it's like eleven o'clock
Speaker 4: and went to bed at like one. It is like,
Speaker 4: it's probably not the most ideal thing to put on
Speaker 4: like in the wee hours before you go to bed,
Speaker 4: especially at that one am mark. But I didn't feel
Speaker 4: necessarily totally like trash, which.
Speaker 5: I'm glad about.
Speaker 4: I was just entertained, full throttle for the whole thing.
Speaker 4: And it's yeah, it's just it still stands on its
Speaker 4: own two feet. It's a really really good freakod movie.
Speaker 4: There's lots of things that I forgot about lots of
Speaker 4: little little moments just that take place, but there's still
Speaker 4: definitely the big things that I'll just I'll never forget.
Speaker 4: But he's just such a such a character that just
Speaker 4: you feel like he's that anti hero, but not even
Speaker 4: necessarily a hero, but just just a guy just trying
Speaker 4: to not do right for other people. I don't even
Speaker 4: know if he's doing right for himself. He's just doing
Speaker 4: things and he feels free as the story progresses, and
Speaker 4: you have what should be the good guys just being
Speaker 4: pieces of shit, and everyone's just a piece of shit
Speaker 4: except for I guess, Oh what is his name? He's
Speaker 4: the guy that couldn't unlock the door.
Speaker 5: I think you're like David or David.
Speaker 3: I'll find out he's back in the sequel.
Speaker 4: In the sequel, Gary, he's in the sequel.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not gonna hurt you.
Speaker 5: Gary always nice to me.
Speaker 1: I think he's in the trial. I think he's one
Speaker 1: of the people they interview.
Speaker 5: So, oh, that'll be cool. I'm excited then for that.
Speaker 5: That's awesome.
Speaker 4: But yeah, no, I just think Joaquin Phoenix is fucking incredible.
Speaker 4: The first scene that we get where he's got like
Speaker 4: no shirt on, and he's just in his like the
Speaker 4: locker room, like stretching his like clown shoe, and it's
Speaker 4: just the way his back is and his arms. Fuck,
Speaker 4: he just he's so different in this role and just
Speaker 4: a total total shift of character.
Speaker 5: Like it's absolutely incredible.
Speaker 4: He does such a good job at really embodying this
Speaker 4: this character. Again, not watching for a while, it just
Speaker 4: it really kicks in, like wow, just these awkward moments
Speaker 4: when he can't control his laughing and all those different
Speaker 4: scenes that just say, it's.
Speaker 5: Just it's crazy. It's crazy.
Speaker 4: It's just how everything gets super tense as it leads
Speaker 4: into that final act. It's just fucking phenomenal. So yeah,
Speaker 4: it's absolutely incredible movie. And I'm excited to talk a
Speaker 4: little bit more about the dynamic between like the Bruce
Speaker 4: and Fleck and then Thomas and the mom and all
Speaker 4: that stuff.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, so you can go you know, need
Speaker 1: to go back. It's gonna say it here, but I
Speaker 1: you know, watched it, loved the first go round, gave
Speaker 1: it a ten at ten and you know, just to
Speaker 1: cut to the chase, it stays to that level. For me,
Speaker 1: it hasn't dropped at all, especially because like, this is
Speaker 1: definitely a movie that I feel like a lot of
Speaker 1: people have issues with or don't like.
Speaker 3: So I thought, oh, you.
Speaker 1: Know, eventually someone's gonna And I still think there's critiques
Speaker 1: of the movies that work, right, Oh, I can see,
Speaker 1: But I thought, Okay, maybe eventually because it is a
Speaker 1: deeper movie, it's more psychological, and maybe that has to
Speaker 1: be more perfectly strung together. It might not make sense,
Speaker 1: but for me, I guess it just works on many levels.
Speaker 3: And one thing that we talked about last night we
Speaker 3: did prediction.
Speaker 1: I said, oh, I'm excited, but I'm just not as
Speaker 1: excited for that as the first one, because you know,
Speaker 1: we kind of know what we're gonna somewhat expect, right.
Speaker 3: I'm hoping the case with the second one. We don't.
Speaker 3: But I think we watched this because I don't remember
Speaker 3: last time I rewatched.
Speaker 1: I felt like when it first came out, I watched
Speaker 1: it a bunch because I don't have a problem of
Speaker 1: watching depressing movies.
Speaker 3: That's kind of like a go to for me.
Speaker 1: I like character studies that are one like American Psycho Shame,
Speaker 1: Like that's my bag. As we're gonna nope, we're gonna
Speaker 1: fall very flawed individual Yeah.
Speaker 3: Dahmer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Dahmer is another one like we could I
Speaker 1: could follow like shady, crazy dark individuals. And I like
Speaker 1: that tar that just came out a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: Like I like, just okay, it's their journey. There's some
Speaker 1: characters around, but really it's about them, right And for me,
Speaker 1: I think what got me more excited this go around
Speaker 1: was a huge plane passes by the story. Was nothing
Speaker 1: more excited for the sequel but or sorry, not more
Speaker 1: excited for this original but for the sequels.
Speaker 3: Like, man, it's just such a well made film. I
Speaker 3: love just crashes.
Speaker 4: It's weird because I can hear I hear the fucking plane.
Speaker 1: We we live like we do just laugh on air,
Speaker 1: just like just like just alone in the chat room.
Speaker 1: The last image, it's just like it's that like fades
Speaker 1: the black. But anyways, everything, especially when making a film
Speaker 1: like I love just like the color grading of this movie,
Speaker 1: just the color palette they choose. It just all, you know,
Speaker 1: has this like rustic film feeling at times, but then
Speaker 1: like the blues and the greens really stand down. They're
Speaker 1: very bright, but they're bright in like a dark way.
Speaker 1: It's not like a bright like superhero. It's just like
Speaker 1: they stand out. So I love the way everything looks
Speaker 1: between Gotham and just on the shots. So I think
Speaker 1: that's what got me more excited, because like, I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to shit in the genre, but just because they
Speaker 1: make a lot of money, a lot of these comic
Speaker 1: films get rushed and they don't take the time to
Speaker 1: make you know, maybe to compose a shot well or
Speaker 1: maybe work on their effects. And it's different again here too, right,
Speaker 1: because like the only CGI in this movie is like
Speaker 1: a couple of rats, so it's very different scales. But
Speaker 1: I think this got me more excited than I was
Speaker 1: even just last night time. But where I was excited,
Speaker 1: I'm still very excited that man joking my favorite characters,
Speaker 1: but just the shots, like oh yeah, like we're gonna
Speaker 1: get a movie that's based on combook stuff that is
Speaker 1: more grounded and is more about.
Speaker 3: The filmmaking side.
Speaker 1: So I think even for the people that would critique it,
Speaker 1: there's lots of just great film shots. I still love
Speaker 1: what they do with Arthur. I think that is a
Speaker 1: problem for some people where it's not the character is
Speaker 1: not black and white, there's people where they go, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you know when he lets Gary go, that's not the
Speaker 1: Joker to me, because the Joker would kill that guy.
Speaker 1: And it's like, one, there's many versions of the Joker,
Speaker 1: but two, I think when they're they're tackling mental health here,
Speaker 1: it's not like black and white. It's not like many
Speaker 1: people have different variations. And it's also not just someone
Speaker 1: suffering from mental health. It's someone suffering from poverty. It's
Speaker 1: someone's sent from physical abuse, it's someone suffering from just
Speaker 1: a shitty life in general. He says that line to
Speaker 1: his mom, right, like, I don't know if I've ever
Speaker 1: been happy in my life, so and that is a
Speaker 1: depression thing. But that's where I just feel like there's
Speaker 1: multiple facets with the character that for me work and
Speaker 1: I think makes some people feel uncomfortable. And I think
Speaker 1: it's some things like again, there's this character does a
Speaker 1: lot of terrible things, but in the middle of the movie,
Speaker 1: they say, hey, are fun to get cut and you
Speaker 1: get no more help, right, And that could be an
Speaker 1: issue that's like a pointing right there of like society
Speaker 1: and I talk about in our first Roam where my
Speaker 1: dad was a psychiatrist. And that's the thing where it's like,
Speaker 1: sometimes the system does fail people. You know, some people
Speaker 1: are more willing to get help, but sometimes it's just
Speaker 1: everything can't be perfect.
Speaker 3: That's with every job, right.
Speaker 1: So I think that's why I still enjoy this movie,
Speaker 1: because I think it pushes the envelope and I can
Speaker 1: understand why people if they don't like it because it's
Speaker 1: too dark.
Speaker 3: I can understand if they feel because.
Speaker 1: Some people, I think still worry that, oh, it takes
Speaker 1: mental health and it puts this very black cloud over it,
Speaker 1: and you know, obviously he becomes this joker and serial killer.
Speaker 1: It's it's I get people's problem of Okay, let's say
Speaker 1: the joker is a guy that felm the chemicals. Well,
Speaker 1: that's easy to say he's crazy, right because like, oh,
Speaker 1: well he got sick and now he's crazy. Opposed to oh,
Speaker 1: this is a guy that's like a regular person that
Speaker 1: society or himself or his mother whatever it maybe got
Speaker 1: him to this poor and we won't want to put
Speaker 1: that image out there. But it doesn't matter because to me, like,
Speaker 1: unfortunately that still happens.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: There's people that shoot up a bunch of schools and
Speaker 1: buildings and you know, the dark Knight rises the screen.
Speaker 1: It's like, these are people that suffer for mental health
Speaker 1: and whether it's a system that fails.
Speaker 3: Them or people around them.
Speaker 1: And I do agree where it's just like that's something
Speaker 1: that Todd phillips. You know, I think there's some bonehead
Speaker 1: stuff he does that he said stuff like, oh, Colmedi's.
Speaker 3: You know, people can't be funnymore.
Speaker 1: He's one of those like, oh, like, I think he's
Speaker 1: just mad that you can't say certain words I used
Speaker 1: to say in The Hangover, right, like people can be
Speaker 1: funny without having to do those. But I think when
Speaker 1: he said one of the themes of this movie is kindness,
Speaker 1: and it's a weird thing to say, but I do
Speaker 1: agree because there's just certain moments where it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: if there was one person to lend a hand to
Speaker 1: this character, maybe there's a turning point, right, and that
Speaker 1: I think is a good lesson for our life.
Speaker 3: Like even like and I'm almost in my overall, but.
Speaker 1: Even like Murray, like imagine if you're a hero like
Speaker 1: ta who's your hero, like like hero like entertainment, Why
Speaker 1: it's not like someone like Okay, Nick Cage, Let's say
Speaker 1: Nick Cage. I don't think he's your hero, but let's
Speaker 1: say Nick Cage, like.
Speaker 4: Hey, I would have gone with Robin Williams.
Speaker 1: Okay, Ron Okay, Well he's passed away, so he's not
Speaker 1: gonna come. Kjim Carrick. Yeah, and let's just say he
Speaker 1: saw Adrenochromer saw the next film working like man, that
Speaker 1: taylor Field guy, he's awful, Like he's showing clips and
Speaker 1: making fun of you, laughing like that's where it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the kindest thing where this guy who is a
Speaker 1: hero of him, an imaginary father figure. The first time
Speaker 1: they like he sees him talking about him, it's making
Speaker 1: fun of him. And that's what he always got to
Speaker 1: think about your actions. So that's why for me this
Speaker 1: movie still holds up visually. The score is she obviously
Speaker 1: won the Oscar for it, but very well deserved. It's
Speaker 1: one of the best combook scores ever, and I can't
Speaker 1: wait to see what she does along with the musical
Speaker 1: stuff and the sequel. Even the side characters are great.
Speaker 1: The mother is great. I love Thomas Wayne here, He's
Speaker 1: such a little shithead. So yeah, I still absolutely love
Speaker 1: this one. It's always like a joy to watch as
Speaker 1: far as a filmmaking point of view, So thousand thousand percent.
Speaker 1: So where do I want to go?
Speaker 2: Where do we want to go? I had a point
Speaker 2: when you're doing your overall, but it's.
Speaker 3: Mental health talking about the school.
Speaker 2: The demon. There's a demon.
Speaker 3: You can't see the.
Speaker 5: Fuck that's terrifying.
Speaker 3: For a second, turn your camera.
Speaker 2: What was I gonna say? Oh, yeah, that's what I
Speaker 2: was gonna go with. Yeah, Like like this, I feel
Speaker 2: like an observation that I had on this second viewing
Speaker 2: compared to my first time around, is this this journey
Speaker 2: very much is centered around Arthur Fleck. But I feel
Speaker 2: like something that I I just noticed a lot more
Speaker 2: in this viewing is that like there's like a massive
Speaker 2: like what would you call it, just just like breaking
Speaker 2: apart of of of like classes in in Gotham here,
Speaker 2: like like it's like a main thing of what's going
Speaker 2: on in the Backgroundio. Yeah, and like like just the
Speaker 2: whole idea of like wearing like the clown Mass and
Speaker 2: like this whole movement like they're using Arthur flex image
Speaker 2: of him in the Clown Mass because he is the
Speaker 2: one that killed those those three people, like he basically
Speaker 2: ignited the flames of this like big rebellion thing that's
Speaker 2: going on and accidentally accidentally and like it's very much
Speaker 2: not the center of the movie at all, like I
Speaker 2: care about it. It's completely going on in the background,
Speaker 2: and like even if he does see stuff going on
Speaker 2: with it, like he never is actually like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I did that, and like this is actually happening. Like
Speaker 2: even when he's having yeah, it's it's between him and
Speaker 2: Murray and he's like talking about the riots, He's like,
Speaker 2: I don't care about any of that, and it's just
Speaker 2: it is really interesting that like that, like that is
Speaker 2: probably the it's it's like in The Batman with Pattinson
Speaker 2: and just like the massive floods of what's going on
Speaker 2: in Gotham, Like it's such a massive thing that's like
Speaker 2: completely shaking the whole foundation of what what's going on
Speaker 2: in Gotham, and I just I don't know, Like I
Speaker 2: obviously knew that it was going on in the first
Speaker 2: time viewing because of the just the ending and it's
Speaker 2: right in your face, but it's just like a it's
Speaker 2: like a storm that's going on in another country or
Speaker 2: something like like because we're just so focused on Arthur
Speaker 2: fleck and like what's actually going on on the ground.
Speaker 2: So I don't know, I just I think I admired
Speaker 2: it on on on that because most of the time,
Speaker 2: when you have a big event, it's like, Okay, now
Speaker 2: we're going straight to the action on on the ground,
Speaker 2: and because that's just like a fast and exciting thing
Speaker 2: to watch, but we're a lot more invested on the
Speaker 2: inside of the character and just what's going on with
Speaker 2: his with his psyche and and how he's interfacing with
Speaker 2: the world. And yeah, I don't know, it's just really
Speaker 2: really neat no.
Speaker 3: And I love that.
Speaker 1: So if you're told Murray when I can't remember the
Speaker 1: character's name but he's played by God, Now I forgot
Speaker 1: the comedian's name too. He's like his he's like his
Speaker 1: side show. He's like his Andy to his Conen. But
Speaker 1: he's like the guy who's like his handler. Right, he's
Speaker 1: on the show Gan g. Yeah, I'm trying to think
Speaker 1: of his real name.
Speaker 3: He was on Mark Mark Mark Marin. Yeah, great actor, great.
Speaker 3: I like him a lot. When he says like, oh
Speaker 3: he doesn't know about the shooting.
Speaker 1: That happened the subway merging, Oh yeah, I'm sure he doesn't,
Speaker 1: and Arthur's like, I had no idea, but he said
Speaker 1: it so holy, and Mari He's like, oh fuck, like
Speaker 1: we might be in a little trouble here, but that's
Speaker 1: why I love until the very end. That doesn't really
Speaker 1: matter to him, right, He's like, I don't care about
Speaker 1: any of that stuff. It's just kind of like the
Speaker 1: only reason he cares is at one point it's on
Speaker 1: the news about oh, there's some shootings, and he just
Speaker 1: cares because people are talking about him.
Speaker 3: But he doesn't care.
Speaker 1: He's not there for that eat the rich, he's not
Speaker 1: there for the uprising just kind of happens. And that's
Speaker 1: why I think I've always said that's why the Manson
Speaker 1: cult like thing could work for a sequel, because you're
Speaker 1: gonna have this character like that where there's tons of
Speaker 1: people that are just lost that will glom onto anything.
Speaker 3: We see that in society.
Speaker 1: We see that with politics, where it's like, oh, this
Speaker 1: person becomes like a godlike figure when really they probably
Speaker 1: don't even care about you. You're just like an ant
Speaker 1: on their radar. And that's like Arthur Offuly. Arthur's not
Speaker 1: like a billionaire, he's not a politician. And but he's
Speaker 1: on such a different rapid journey. He didn't he didn't
Speaker 1: care about the clowns and what the next elections like
Speaker 1: and everything, but he benefits off of it. So it's
Speaker 1: and I just love Gotham in general. I love the
Speaker 1: garbage strike. I love that just looks like a like
Speaker 1: the way like obviously Nolan's went for the very big
Speaker 1: city Gotham passes Gotham when is a very kind of
Speaker 1: like creepy, just you don't want to be and you
Speaker 1: don't want to be in any of these Gothams really,
Speaker 1: but it's a very creepy Gothic type of Gotham.
Speaker 3: Burns is very scary and just kind of.
Speaker 2: Uh choose maybe with some some penguins with.
Speaker 1: I definitely picked Nolan's. Nolan's very crimeri in but still
Speaker 1: it's like it's just like a normal city, right.
Speaker 3: But this what I like about this Gotham.
Speaker 1: It's just kind of like gross, like the garbage strike,
Speaker 1: a garbage to this are piling up, there's rats everywhere.
Speaker 1: It just feels very eighties, very oppressed people having this issue.
Speaker 1: So I love this type of very broken and it
Speaker 1: makes it feel kind of a character in the background.
Speaker 3: So I'm interesting what they doing the sequel there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think as far as just the the scenery
Speaker 4: of Gotham, it's funny going off with the Penguin Show
Speaker 4: and then seeing it here just to have these two comparisons.
Speaker 4: I haven't seen the Nolan films for a while, I
Speaker 4: haven't seen The Batman for a bit, So the the
Speaker 4: two worlds, Yeah, they they both feel disgusting and just
Speaker 4: kind of like the poverty and just when you look
Speaker 4: at this one though, like garbage everywhere and you got
Speaker 4: super rats running around apparently, and just absolutely chaotic and
Speaker 4: just businesses closing down left, right and center. It just
Speaker 4: does not feel like a great economic boom of a of.
Speaker 5: A place to be.
Speaker 4: It's just how any alleyway you can go down, you
Speaker 4: just get fucking kick the shit out of you.
Speaker 3: But and and shot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, what was the first half of this question?
Speaker 4: Aside from like we.
Speaker 1: Just like the like the background with Arthur with the
Speaker 1: riots and the clown people and everything like that and
Speaker 1: taking his accidental message.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's is it supposed to be coincidence
Speaker 4: or just just like meant to be that the masks
Speaker 4: that people are using for the riots just resembles what
Speaker 4: he was wearing that night on the train when.
Speaker 5: He kills those three guys.
Speaker 3: No, I think it's a purpose by them.
Speaker 2: They that description right of the killer, described as wearing
Speaker 2: like a clown mask, and.
Speaker 1: Everyone, I think just takes it as all this guy's
Speaker 1: standing up for us, and that I think there's another
Speaker 1: good message for today.
Speaker 3: That happens a.
Speaker 1: Lot where people you're putting your own ideas into something,
Speaker 1: but really it might not be the exact situation.
Speaker 5: So oh absolutely, and you have to be careful with that.
Speaker 4: And so he even at the end when he's like
Speaker 4: dancing on top of the vehicle and he's just having
Speaker 4: a having a good time, he's just he's not you
Speaker 4: guys already highlighted. He's not doing it for them, and
Speaker 4: he's not doing it for the cause, like he says
Speaker 4: when he's talking to Murray, He's just doing it just
Speaker 4: because he's starting to feel himself, he's starting to feel free.
Speaker 4: And he I mean, he convinced me that a part
Speaker 4: of him genuinely wants people to be nicer and kinder
Speaker 4: because he just he's just throughout the film, he's just
Speaker 4: constantly reoccurringly stating like oh, you know, you're so rude,
Speaker 4: You're so mean, YadA, YadA, YadA, And so it's just
Speaker 4: him kind of against rudeness.
Speaker 5: I feel like.
Speaker 1: There's part of that, but I love that's that'd be
Speaker 1: the pitch, like what's your pitch for joking?
Speaker 3: Okay, joker against rudeness? Like okay, god, we're not funding
Speaker 3: this movie.
Speaker 2: It was like an elementary school book or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly those kid versions. But uh yeah, and you
Speaker 1: guys said, I guess I didn't shout out either. But
Speaker 1: it's like it's a non factor, Like he won Golden
Speaker 1: he's like walking given like an old timer here.
Speaker 3: He's so goodness. Like you said, I don't see him
Speaker 3: in this role.
Speaker 1: And what I always bring up is why I don't
Speaker 1: know what the ratio is gonna be like in part too,
Speaker 1: But I've always said that I feel like he does
Speaker 1: make a real distinction that once he's in the makeup
Speaker 1: and he goes down the stairs, he does feel different.
Speaker 1: He still feels like the Arthur we've been watching, but
Speaker 1: he just feels like he has like a level of
Speaker 1: confidence that he didn't have before the last He just
Speaker 1: lets them out a post like trying to hold them back,
Speaker 1: which I always still think is like a great gimmick.
Speaker 1: I think I said that from the first tray we saw, like,
Speaker 1: I love that That's how Joker gets his laugh is
Speaker 1: when he feels uncomfortable, it makes him laugh. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's just like a smart like tie to like a
Speaker 1: sort of illness. Think, but the whole back half, the whole,
Speaker 1: and I think I like people should watch it. Where
Speaker 1: Tarantino was talking about Joker, he's like, oh, like, I
Speaker 1: like the movie enough, But why he says, like, at
Speaker 1: least the third acts masterful is when you get to
Speaker 1: walking Phoenix's Joker and he's there and you know he's
Speaker 1: either there to kill himself or he's probably gonna kill Murray, right,
Speaker 1: And the way that Phillips and the whole team, the
Speaker 1: Right Team and Phoenix accident says, you make it in
Speaker 1: a way where even if he's a little rude, you're
Speaker 1: actively kind of wanting Joker to shoot Robert de Naro
Speaker 1: when really though he's just like a regular guy who
Speaker 1: makes some jokes that probably has a wife and kids
Speaker 1: and everything. But they do in such a good job
Speaker 1: putting it from his perspective, and because he was rude,
Speaker 1: even though in the middle Dannaro was talking about how
Speaker 1: like there's riots out there and you think it's funnyuse
Speaker 1: people are dead, like that's sick, but they do such
Speaker 1: a good job of flipping that and that. Like I
Speaker 1: was saying, I think Phoenix, when he's in the makeup,
Speaker 1: he feels like, I wouldn't say, like the joker, like
Speaker 1: I want to see it against Batman, but he feels
Speaker 1: like a joke or he feels like something different than
Speaker 1: what Arthur Fleck was. And I'm curious to see how
Speaker 1: much he's in the actual makeup in the sequel and
Speaker 1: if he does that again, because I do think there
Speaker 1: is a difference between Arthur and the makeup and Arthur
Speaker 1: not in the makeup, where I wasn't sure when we
Speaker 1: first saw the movie if that was going to be
Speaker 1: the case, but I think there is a level of,
Speaker 1: you know, a sort of mass that comes on when
Speaker 1: he gets that paint on.
Speaker 2: So oh, one hundred percent, yeah, I think it's it
Speaker 2: feels very clear like just where he is I think
Speaker 2: in the story based on like when he has the
Speaker 2: makeup versus not it's I don't know, it just seems
Speaker 2: like he's hiding behind his own like figure, like when
Speaker 2: he doesn't have the makeup on, whereas when he puts
Speaker 2: it on, that's when he's like superpowered and juiced. And
Speaker 2: yeah no, I just just aces across the board with
Speaker 2: Joaquin honestly throughout this this whole thing. But like Taylor,
Speaker 2: you're shouting out his just his like his physique, I
Speaker 2: guess in this movie. It's just like, man, he just
Speaker 2: looks so he looks like he has like a dislocated
Speaker 2: shoulder in this movie. And I'm like, I don't know
Speaker 2: what they teach in acting school to get your body
Speaker 2: to fucking do that or anything like that, but like
Speaker 2: it's just yeah, he he he sounds not well and
Speaker 2: he looks unwell when he's on screen, and yeah, just man,
Speaker 2: I don't know. They just do such a good job
Speaker 2: at like he does like he's a murderer. He does
Speaker 2: awful things in the story, but just the direction of
Speaker 2: the film, like they just make it you want want
Speaker 2: to feel sympathy for this character and like the people
Speaker 2: that like him, right, Like they do do a good
Speaker 2: job at making the viewer want to support the uh
Speaker 2: they eat the rich movement and just like these people
Speaker 2: looking down on them, and like you you mentioned Thomas
Speaker 2: Wayne there Travis in your early talk, and yeah, he's
Speaker 2: just totally like a like just an asshole, like right,
Speaker 2: like like Arthur's like just like talking about his mother
Speaker 2: and all these things. He just does not care at
Speaker 2: all and just has no time for it. And I'm
Speaker 2: not saying, like Thomas Wayne shit like owes him all
Speaker 2: these things. You know, we'll we'll talk about what the
Speaker 2: legitimate legitimacy of all that stuff is.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 2: They do just a really good job. And you do
Speaker 2: kind of want to see Robert and you get shot
Speaker 2: in that in that sequence, because yeah, like he is
Speaker 2: just kind of bringing him on here to be a bully,
Speaker 2: right and just just laugh at this guy and just
Speaker 2: take advantage of like someone with severe mental health issues
Speaker 2: and just like posting the video like without permission. Like
Speaker 2: to me, it's just like how like how does that
Speaker 2: even happen?
Speaker 1: But whatever, he was an eighties though right back then
Speaker 1: it wouldn't I feel like that's true like drawback, it's.
Speaker 2: Just oh, it probably happened all the time, perc.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it was wild wild West wen
Speaker 1: Now it's like, yeah, that would go to Twitter, you'd
Speaker 1: get a bunch of shit for that. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: hey there, where do you want to go next?
Speaker 4: Oh, I wouldn't mind talking about the mum dilemma. And
Speaker 4: it's this kind of went over my head, the fact
Speaker 4: that there was adoption papers at play here.
Speaker 5: Uh I did. I totally forgot about that.
Speaker 4: So I'm curious, Okay, is this something that the Wayne
Speaker 4: family and Alfred just spun this narrative to try and
Speaker 4: derail the possible truth.
Speaker 5: Again, it's up to interpretation.
Speaker 4: But I'm maybe leaning on the side of the fact
Speaker 4: that Fleck is not the child of Thomas Wayne and
Speaker 4: that yeah, the mom was just absolutely fucking bonkers and
Speaker 4: then just did adopt him.
Speaker 5: That's kind of where I stand on that.
Speaker 2: My prediction on this, my little to add my two
Speaker 2: cents to the to the top. Yeah, it's gonna get
Speaker 2: spoken about in Joker too. It's gonna be a big
Speaker 2: talking about. Yeah, they're gonna go on, Mari, you are
Speaker 2: not the father.
Speaker 1: Arthur fle just sitting there with the corpse of Thomas Wayne.
Speaker 2: I I feel like, yes, he is not the blood
Speaker 2: relative to Thomas Wayne or anything like that. I still
Speaker 2: think that there was like some sort of relation sexually
Speaker 2: between the mother and Thomas Wayne, and just the fact
Speaker 2: that she like signed like you know, NDA's and stuff
Speaker 2: like that, like the fact that they would have even
Speaker 2: had to go through that process. Clearly something happened there.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, like I don't feel strongly that
Speaker 2: he isn't like the broad relative like you could spin
Speaker 2: in that direction, but I just think how the scene
Speaker 2: actually played out makes me think that, yeah, she's just
Speaker 2: totally fucked in the head. And just like when yeah,
Speaker 2: that moment when like the officer is just like detailing
Speaker 2: like the physical abuse that like happened to like little Arthur,
Speaker 2: it's just like, oh my god, Like this is I
Speaker 2: get it now why he's like this right. And then
Speaker 2: that's when you just feel awful because you're like, man,
Speaker 2: like this, it's not even his fault why he is
Speaker 2: like this right, And like again, it's just adding to
Speaker 2: the I do want to root for this individual, even
Speaker 2: though I've seen him murder people. So yeah, it's it's people.
Speaker 3: That point though.
Speaker 1: Right at first, it's like the guys are about to
Speaker 1: maybe sexually assault a woman, so I think they're smart
Speaker 1: to play it off that way. And then eventually gets
Speaker 1: to like you know, Murray and more innocence to come
Speaker 1: my image and so yeah, and I'm sure that doctor
Speaker 1: he killed an Arkham when he's dancing, like, I don't
Speaker 1: think they deserved it, you know.
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, probably not. But yeah, no, I I
Speaker 2: think I think I lost my train of thoughts all
Speaker 2: passed along trace.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think for me.
Speaker 1: And this is something you'll see when we have our
Speaker 1: second film that I like scenarios like this where it
Speaker 1: is up for interpretation and there's molth ways you can
Speaker 1: take it, because you could look at this and go, well,
Speaker 1: she fantasized this whole situation about Thomas Wayne, and we
Speaker 1: see Arthur fantasize the whole relationship with as he beats right,
Speaker 1: that's not even real. So you can completely that string
Speaker 1: is there if you want to be like Tai and
Speaker 1: believe that, oh it's not his kid, right, because it's
Speaker 1: just she was crazy, maybe went out of line, maybe
Speaker 1: she saw something it there, who knows. But then the
Speaker 1: other route is this is a guy that's a billionaire,
Speaker 1: he's running for mayor. You could ease, especially in the eighties,
Speaker 1: easily fudge the numbers, delete it, you know, get rid
Speaker 1: of a paper trail, all that jazz like like knock
Speaker 1: someone up, like oh, we'll say he's adopted, Like there's
Speaker 1: so much you could do there. And I think the
Speaker 1: other thing that helps with that is they make Alfred,
Speaker 1: they make Thomas complete assholes.
Speaker 3: And that'd be different if they're nice people.
Speaker 1: They go, well, I don't know if I'd buy this,
Speaker 1: but I think because they make them so kind of
Speaker 1: crummy and at the same time too again on that string,
Speaker 1: they can make them crumby because maybe Penny Fleck, a
Speaker 1: fucking crazy person that was obsessed with Thomas, won leave
Speaker 1: alone and now you have her son, who was another
Speaker 1: crazy person unfortunately had holding Bruce Wayne by the mouth,
Speaker 1: and Alfred's like, fuck man, Like I thought this was
Speaker 1: dealt with. So that's why I love like both ways.
Speaker 1: Both avenues have warrant to them. I think for me,
Speaker 1: I like thinking it is his dad, because one I
Speaker 1: would like a version I thought we were gonna get
Speaker 1: this in The Batman, we didn't. I like at least
Speaker 1: one version of the Wayne's being shitty. I kind of
Speaker 1: wish they did that with The Batman, and they kind
Speaker 1: of pull it back when Alfred's like, well, he didn't know,
Speaker 1: you know, they were gonna kill your parent, Like he
Speaker 1: like what he makes some deal with Carmen and foul
Speaker 1: Cole in the Batman. I'm not sure if you guys remember,
Speaker 1: and then Alfred it's like, well he didn't know I
Speaker 1: was gonna get that bad. It's like, okay, so was
Speaker 1: it accidental? And that's what they leave that up for interpretation.
Speaker 1: Not as strong as this one, i'd say, But for me,
Speaker 1: I like this just because there's a big theme with
Speaker 1: his mother, but a big themes with the father as
Speaker 1: far as one, he's missing a father. Two he looks
Speaker 1: at Murray as a father figure. And then if Thomas
Speaker 1: Wayne is also's father, he's another father figure. That's just
Speaker 1: complete lea a shit heel to him. So I think
Speaker 1: that's why I like it, because with him and Murray,
Speaker 1: like sorry Thomas and Murray, it's like a good just
Speaker 1: more just piling on. If he keeps finding these like
Speaker 1: father figures and they keep failing him, you know, because
Speaker 1: if it's just like, oh, I'm not your father, then
Speaker 1: that's not really like on Arthur to be disappointed. It's like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: this guy's nothing to do with me. But That's why
Speaker 1: I like it better if it is his dad and
Speaker 1: this guy just put him to shit, and then I
Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, I know some people don't
Speaker 1: like it as you know, you see the Waynes get
Speaker 1: shot again, but I kind of like that full circle
Speaker 1: of Okay, Thomas Wayne knocks his girl up, kicks for
Speaker 1: the curb, and then years later that same kid, you know,
Speaker 1: starts a riot that like leads to his death, which
Speaker 1: some people might say it's cheesy. Maybe some people or
Speaker 1: sometimes some situation I would be in this movie. It's
Speaker 1: not so it's I say, Thomas is his dad, But
Speaker 1: I like, I don't want there to be like an answer.
Speaker 1: I don't have to be like, oh, well this is
Speaker 1: you know, it's not like inception with the fucking totem.
Speaker 1: You know, we're talk abos trivia, like we know what
Speaker 1: the totem is. Stop fucking lying everybody with this. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm glad it's kind of left up for interpretation. So
Speaker 1: anything he's saying on zazzy beats and uh walking Phoenix,
Speaker 1: I think for the little bits there and they got
Speaker 1: good chemistry even though it's all fake, And I still
Speaker 1: think that's like one of the more chilling scenes than
Speaker 1: a company just actually in film in general. That when
Speaker 1: he goes to her place that night, Yeah, and he
Speaker 1: like the whole reveal, like that's like the.
Speaker 3: Score that done done. It's like it's good. Shit, man, it's.
Speaker 2: Good getting goosebumps just thinking about it. Yeah, that like
Speaker 2: it's funny now like watching it for a second time now,
Speaker 2: Like to me, it's just like, Okay, I'm so surprised.
Speaker 2: Well I'm not really surprised, but still it's just like
Speaker 2: this is like how did I fall for this? You know,
Speaker 2: like like just like with everything that's going on, like
Speaker 2: he just like goes they start macing and like you
Speaker 2: know he was following her, Yeah, like followed me. It's
Speaker 2: like yeah, and like it's just super easy. So and like, man,
Speaker 2: I will fully admit I was completely like roped in
Speaker 2: the first time. It's like, man, he's got this one
Speaker 2: pillar with him. It's like keeping him grounded. This is nice.
Speaker 2: Maybe there's some potential of him having a happy life.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, when that scene happens, like to get
Speaker 2: that reveal, like it just like shook me. I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, that is just insane. And then they
Speaker 2: show everything from the comedy like everything that he just
Speaker 2: was imagining in his mind. And yeah, so I I
Speaker 2: loved it, and you know, like the first time around,
Speaker 2: the second time around it a little bit harder to
Speaker 2: like believe because I've seen that trick. But it's also
Speaker 2: it's like, well, fuck, I fell for it so easily
Speaker 2: the first time around, Like I can't just yeah, well,
Speaker 2: I can't just say that, like, oh, it's so hard
Speaker 2: to believe that, you know, because like I fully ate
Speaker 2: into it. But no, I did really like her inclusion
Speaker 2: in it, and as you stated, like they do have
Speaker 2: good on screen fake chemistry, well real fake chemistry, I guess,
Speaker 2: but uh yeah, I liked also how like in reality
Speaker 2: she isn't even really like a part of the bit
Speaker 2: like she is it's just like almost an extra level character, yes,
Speaker 2: but like for in his imaginary world, she's she's a
Speaker 2: lot more of a side character, or just more of
Speaker 2: an important side character maybe. So yeah, no, I'm I
Speaker 2: think it's fantastic.
Speaker 1: Kirklan said he got goose bums this Kirkland. At anytime, a
Speaker 1: joker's about on Invada Woman's house.
Speaker 3: Just as sure as a rock is covered in chills already.
Speaker 1: Jesus right go, but I just left how they f
Speaker 1: ent from her perspective of imagine, if you were just
Speaker 1: anigh or you walk in in this name, that's a
Speaker 1: little awful. You just walked in your home and he's
Speaker 1: just sitting there, and he turns back and just that
Speaker 1: look walking has he just puts a gun head He
Speaker 1: would think. I don't know if this meme existed when
Speaker 1: this movie came out, but that's a full It's over
Speaker 1: for you in the moment right there. If a guy
Speaker 1: turns you with a gun news that it's like and
Speaker 1: again I like that they leave that ambiguous.
Speaker 3: You don't know what happened in that room. You don't
Speaker 3: know if he just left.
Speaker 1: You don't know if he killed somebody, because people point
Speaker 1: out that right after you hear like a sound of
Speaker 1: an ambulance. But like I think one of them up
Speaker 1: said like, no, no, that doesn't happen. But in the
Speaker 1: movie they sure don't show us that character ever again,
Speaker 1: so it's like they definitely whatever they want to say,
Speaker 1: they leave it up for interpretation. So I think another
Speaker 1: another good choice. So Kirkland or sorry Teya was mass
Speaker 1: in doing that too, and you ate all our ice
Speaker 1: Cream Watch.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I still think that to this day. It's just Yeah,
Speaker 4: one of the most craziest revelations. Just when he's like
Speaker 4: he said, Travis, he's sitting in that apartment on the
Speaker 4: on the couch, and you think, oh, he's just he
Speaker 4: went to her apartment. It's yeah, like it's just fuck,
Speaker 4: it's fucking crazy. She comes out screaming and you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: you live down the hall and this that sets in
Speaker 4: that revelation, it's like, oh my god, like how much
Speaker 4: of this whole movie has been only in his head?
Speaker 4: Like what's what's real and what's fake. So they do
Speaker 4: a fantastic job and she's great. I I even though
Speaker 4: they're all in his mind scenes and them together, I
Speaker 4: liked their chemistry and I liked them together. I think
Speaker 4: they had a lot of fun. But I remember looking
Speaker 4: into it, I think that there was like Todd Phillips
Speaker 4: did have more scenes with her, and that's maybe touching
Speaker 4: into like the trivia part, but I think he did
Speaker 4: confirm them No, she is alive.
Speaker 1: He did, but he cut the scene that day because
Speaker 1: at one point they show her watching the Murray Show.
Speaker 1: This all go down, but he cut it, and I
Speaker 1: think they.
Speaker 3: I think they were smart cuts.
Speaker 1: So he in his mind he might have it, and
Speaker 1: I do have it too because I think at that
Speaker 1: point Arthur wouldn't do that. I think you get to
Speaker 1: Arthur once he gets the makeup on. That's a different story.
Speaker 1: But I think to me, that's the point of the
Speaker 1: movie where there's you're showing in this joke or you're
Speaker 1: showing stages of Okay, he did kills some dirt bags, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: he kills a guy that maybe was an asshole to
Speaker 1: at where gave him a gun, but really they deserve that,
Speaker 1: they deserve.
Speaker 3: His eye socket like stabbed.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but still say, Okay, you're getting worse
Speaker 1: and worse and worse and then two or sorry, like
Speaker 1: kind of better better better as far as like shitty criminals,
Speaker 1: bad guy at work, radio show hosts or talk show hosts.
Speaker 1: That's where it's like, maybe the next time if he
Speaker 1: did see Zazie Beach, she might not make it out alive. Right,
Speaker 1: same thing with Gary, like he nicely lets her out.
Speaker 1: So to me, I don't think he did anything, but
Speaker 1: you know, again you don't see him again, so you
Speaker 1: never know, So anywhere else to go specifically that we
Speaker 1: haven't talked about yet.
Speaker 2: Uh you mentioned the laugh. That's yeah, just such a
Speaker 2: chilling aspect of this movie. And it's just like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, I I just feel like it's a perfect
Speaker 2: way to have the laugh in this universe of the
Speaker 2: Joker and just just his delivery of every like every
Speaker 2: time it happens. I absolutely love when he's in his
Speaker 2: his clown dressing room and Buddy like says that joke
Speaker 2: and then he just like bursts out laughing and walking
Speaker 2: turns the corner and he's just like like completely straight
Speaker 2: faced and it's like, Okay, this guy, this guy's got
Speaker 2: a couple of screwed loose. But yeah, I know it's
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just more of Walking being fucking
Speaker 2: phenomenal of just just the delivery of every thing on that.
Speaker 1: And again in that moment you brought up, though, I
Speaker 1: don't think he actually laughs. I think it's because he's
Speaker 1: because they make like a short joke about Gary, and
Speaker 1: I think he's just uncomfortable so he laughs. That's when
Speaker 1: he walks away and he's had a situation, he stops laughing.
Speaker 1: So I think it's that again where it's just like
Speaker 1: he because he's not making any like Gary Short jokes
Speaker 1: or anything.
Speaker 3: And yeah, just a don't know whoever came up with
Speaker 3: that idea, but a great way. And uh, you know,
Speaker 3: even the scene on.
Speaker 1: The bus with like like you just imagine if you
Speaker 1: had that condition, it would it would be awful. As
Speaker 1: far as he's playing with this kid, this mom just
Speaker 1: is kind of like a complete assolet leave my son alone.
Speaker 1: But then because he's nervous, he starts to laugh, and
Speaker 1: then the more people look at him as laughter goes on,
Speaker 1: he has to hand this card. Like I think the
Speaker 1: first asterod does a great job of showing you like
Speaker 1: if you had these things going in your life, like yeah,
Speaker 1: you would develop some issues with yourself because you're just
Speaker 1: constantly being looked down upon and it's can't be can't
Speaker 1: be easy.
Speaker 2: The sequence when he goes to the comedy show and
Speaker 2: he's just like trying to get like inspiration, it just
Speaker 2: seemed like like he his part of me, his Oh
Speaker 2: my god, his level of humor is just so disjointed
Speaker 2: with like what is actually funny, Like he's just completely
Speaker 2: off everyone else's.
Speaker 1: Where I just don't know if he's laugh like he
Speaker 1: thinks other people are gonna laugh, and they don't laugh,
Speaker 1: but he's the only one because the oh there's times
Speaker 1: where that come he in saying lines that there's it's
Speaker 1: just like the setup stuff and he's just by.
Speaker 3: And everyone's just like quiet. It's it's so good.
Speaker 1: And again, speaking of colmy stuff, I know it's his set,
Speaker 1: but I think they do such a good job of
Speaker 1: again who knows.
Speaker 3: I guess it is real because he's there. We don't
Speaker 3: says he beats not.
Speaker 1: But I think they do such a good job of Man,
Speaker 1: that is just awkward as fuck. You feel like you're
Speaker 1: in the crowd and you're watching some comedian just eat it.
Speaker 1: And he starts to flip through his book and just
Speaker 1: like has fucking nude photos of women. You're just like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, Arthur, like that me that meme of
Speaker 1: him with the book, like it's there for a reason
Speaker 1: because that scene is just that is like it's skin
Speaker 1: crawling just to see.
Speaker 3: This person up there just trying.
Speaker 1: And then, like I said later on Murray's fucking railroads
Speaker 1: the force because he feels like even worse about that
Speaker 1: because what sucks in his mind, he distorted that to
Speaker 1: be like a good memory, right, he looks up sees
Speaker 1: as he beats, and then the.
Speaker 3: Crowd is like laughing. I don't think they're actually laughing
Speaker 3: with him.
Speaker 1: But he takes it and this probably awful thing that's
Speaker 1: happening makes it into a good memory. But then Murray
Speaker 1: like takes it away from him, like almost brings them
Speaker 1: back to reality of like, oh that good thing you imagined,
Speaker 1: Yeah it's not real.
Speaker 3: You're a fucking loser.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that scene is great, scene of him just
Speaker 1: flipping through his pages. So I think on the the
Speaker 1: we're talking about some of his comedy first Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, his uh like his first ah you know someone
Speaker 4: someone I'm sure loves his jokes, not really me. I
Speaker 4: think when he first is showcasing his book when he's
Speaker 4: in that session with his therapist and it's like, you
Speaker 4: don't bring the book and I see it and she
Speaker 4: opens it up and it's just it doesn't look like
Speaker 4: it's a healthy.
Speaker 5: A healthy situation.
Speaker 4: And what is the thing that she says, I look
Speaker 4: like I look forward to dying because then my my
Speaker 4: life I can't know.
Speaker 3: It's yeah, the joke is like, uh like my life.
Speaker 1: It's like my life doesn't make sense if I die.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's it's.
Speaker 2: I hope I make more sense or I hope my
Speaker 2: life makes more sense after I die, Like.
Speaker 1: The doll, like the dollar, Yeah exactly, which is you know,
Speaker 1: kind of a fun prelude to what's gonna happen so.
Speaker 4: M and so like I I think, yeah, it's got
Speaker 4: a little interesting little foreshadow, I guess, And yeah, it's
Speaker 4: just what segues into that club scene and him just
Speaker 4: with his book and all the crazy shit he's got
Speaker 4: in there. It's just it's it's bonkers. It really really
Speaker 4: is bonkers. But but you remind me so the whole
Speaker 4: set up with.
Speaker 5: I guess not that therapist.
Speaker 2: But.
Speaker 1: I know she's the same therapist throughout, like the one
Speaker 1: that kicks him in the curb later, she's not the one.
Speaker 3: To the end that gets murdered.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was a different one. Yeah, because I thought
Speaker 5: there was. I thought there was.
Speaker 4: A discussion about when those sessions were taking place.
Speaker 5: But I guess that's because I thought.
Speaker 4: There was something about like maybe the him talking to
Speaker 4: was it at the end when she's he's talking to
Speaker 4: the end therapist and that's actually like, ah, are you.
Speaker 3: Trying to say that the whole movie is like a
Speaker 3: dream that sort of thing.
Speaker 4: No, not a dream alow, but I feel like he's
Speaker 4: just like recounting the events and like, again, its just
Speaker 4: sit in hand with how he imagines these things in
Speaker 4: a certain way, right, Like he likes to paint the
Speaker 4: picture like, oh, this is actually a happy memory for himself,
Speaker 4: and I feel like this is its tribulations for but
Speaker 4: it does end in a happy sort of way for him.
Speaker 4: And even at the end when he's like, you know,
Speaker 4: you wouldn't get it. And I just feel like that
Speaker 4: was one of the interpretations and discussions of him and
Speaker 4: just how they did this this setup of his narrative,
Speaker 4: if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's why there's a lot of people that
Speaker 1: don't like the sequel idea, because there's some people that
Speaker 1: like the idea like it's all dream or all story,
Speaker 1: because they have that moment when he's talking to the
Speaker 1: first therapist that won the sessions, he said, oh, I
Speaker 1: was more happier when I was like in Arkham or institute, right,
Speaker 1: And they just do a quick cut to him like
Speaker 1: banging his head against the glass, but he's wearing like
Speaker 1: the exact same outfit he is at the end of
Speaker 1: the movie. So some people like to speculate like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it is just all like a thing. I never liked that.
Speaker 1: I don't mind certain segments of it's a dreamer made up.
Speaker 3: I don't the whole movie.
Speaker 1: Being a dreamer a scenario is kind of is a
Speaker 1: tough situation. But no, again, I like that they have
Speaker 1: that stuff in there, and I do like another moment
Speaker 1: in the very first session, she gets that book and
Speaker 1: she wants to look at and he's.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, I you know I'm gonna I'm gonna pursue
Speaker 3: a career in stand up comedy.
Speaker 1: And she's like, oh yeah, I didn't know that. He's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you did. We've talked about it.
Speaker 3: But that's why I like.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, again, is she just a shit person
Speaker 1: that doesn't really care about him? Or in his mind,
Speaker 1: has he had this conversation with her about being a
Speaker 1: stand up comedian but she was not present because it's
Speaker 1: in his fucking mind that But he's like kind of
Speaker 1: offended by it, Like he's not he's not outwardly angry,
Speaker 1: but just kind of quiet. And it's just a great
Speaker 1: choice by walking in there. So anything else specifically before
Speaker 1: were going to trivia and some ratings.
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I don't think anything really specific
Speaker 2: that we didn't cover. Terrible idea to bring a gun
Speaker 2: to a child's hospital.
Speaker 3: It's part of his act though, correct.
Speaker 2: That's definitely definitely fireable offense. I think, you know, all
Speaker 2: things considered, I think his boss, you know, he gave
Speaker 2: it like first instance happened, and then you know, the
Speaker 2: gun like okay, yeah, a couple of warnings. Now he's
Speaker 2: he's he's gone.
Speaker 3: And I love that too.
Speaker 1: When he's just talking, he's like going off about you know,
Speaker 1: the sign everything.
Speaker 3: And then it fades the music and Arthur just saying that,
Speaker 3: like he just.
Speaker 1: Looks so fucking creepy. He's just like he looks like
Speaker 1: he wants to break down and cry. And then the
Speaker 1: smash cuts him the like the alleyway, like kicking the
Speaker 1: ship in the garbage and everything. But he's just like
Speaker 1: trying to stay composed and such a good moment there, but.
Speaker 2: A little two when he's leaving the office, like oh,
Speaker 2: forgot to punch out.
Speaker 3: If someone did that nowadays, i'd be like, I'm quitting.
Speaker 3: This guy's coming back and.
Speaker 2: We're fuck it's just Dane Cook's kid.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh I love your Google, your Jubilee fans or whatever
Speaker 1: they are. But yeah, it's that he's like fucking spray paints.
Speaker 1: Don't smile. You'd be like, yeah, it's over for us,
Speaker 1: you know. So uh and then just a quick shout
Speaker 1: out for me because it's on my notes. I always
Speaker 1: love the uh the music drop of white Room by
Speaker 1: Cream when he's in the like the Police Wagon at
Speaker 1: the end. Everything, just love it with the ending, the scene,
Speaker 1: the score.
Speaker 3: Good stuff. But yeah, white Room is a favorite of mine.
Speaker 2: So music's great in this movie.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Plaite is in the second Okay, Walking Phoenix called perfecting
Speaker 1: the Joker's laugh the toughest part of playing the character.
Speaker 1: He based laughed on videos of people suffering from pathological laughter.
Speaker 1: He also sought out to portray a character in which
Speaker 1: the audiences could not identify. Pathological laughter is a real
Speaker 1: life disorder which causes the patient stuffer from uncontrollable laughter
Speaker 1: attack in response to tents or stressful situations. Although the
Speaker 1: disorder isn't usual, these attacks can stop the normal flux
Speaker 1: of oxygen to the brain and lungs, causing hypother or
Speaker 1: no hyperventilating, No hypo, hypo hyposia. I don't think I've
Speaker 1: ever said this word.
Speaker 3: It's hypo and x I a hypoxia, hypoxia. Yeah, I've
Speaker 3: never fucking.
Speaker 2: Since likeox or something like that.
Speaker 3: Well, there you go.
Speaker 2: She said that word once or twice.
Speaker 3: It could cause that, so you know, some damage along
Speaker 3: the way.
Speaker 1: We've talked about this in many weeks, but just in
Speaker 1: case someone listens to this and a bottle, first RATEDAR
Speaker 1: film to ever cross a billion, So there you go.
Speaker 1: Walking said he lost about fifty two pounds for this role.
Speaker 1: He talked about the conception of the Joker change during
Speaker 1: production and what interested him about the character. Throughout the
Speaker 1: course of shooting, it felt like every day we were
Speaker 1: discovering new parts of his personality. Up until the very
Speaker 1: last day, it was a struggle for him to find
Speaker 1: happiness and feel connected to and to feel connected, to
Speaker 1: feel warm and love, a part of character I was
Speaker 1: so interested in. He was so many different things to me.
Speaker 1: Who he was in the first few weeks of shooting
Speaker 1: was completely different than who he was at the end.
Speaker 1: He constantly was evolving. I never had experienced like this
Speaker 1: more unpredictable and loocier we left it.
Speaker 3: It was more exciting.
Speaker 1: So and again something with a movie pointing this out.
Speaker 1: Costing fifty five billion, this is the least expensive film
Speaker 1: to ever gross a billion dollars. So easy, I think probably.
Speaker 1: I don't know the list of moth profile films ever,
Speaker 1: but this has to be up there. But again, stuff
Speaker 1: that you can kind of do in a smaller way
Speaker 1: is maybe change some sort of arcs or many things
Speaker 1: to do with it. But I let's see here, Walking
Speaker 1: unexpectedly shed in a tier during the first take when
Speaker 1: his character looked to the mirror, Todd Phillips kept it
Speaker 1: in Walking. Todd Phillips said he played the film's score
Speaker 1: for Walking because he won the music to effect and
Speaker 1: infect in a set in a way during the first
Speaker 1: take the score is playing. Films revealed that Walking is
Speaker 1: struggling with Arthur's smile a little tear peers. We just
Speaker 1: had that scene and we moved on. I had something else.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Taking a page from Sergia Leone, Todd Phillips as composer
Speaker 1: to write the score before filming, something that's usually unusual
Speaker 1: in Hollywood.
Speaker 3: This was in order to set the mood for the movie.
Speaker 1: And I think also we had got that when we
Speaker 1: got I think some early teasers and they released it stuff.
Speaker 1: But I think that really helps for this movie because
Speaker 1: I do think a lot of that score is such
Speaker 1: smooth sitting, whether it's the action stuff, whether it's especially
Speaker 1: the bathroom dance scene, like it has a tone. So
Speaker 1: I think that was a very smart thing to do there.
Speaker 1: Walking Phoenix is now the second actor win Academy Award
Speaker 1: for playing the Joker, off the previous winner, Keith Fledgcher.
Speaker 1: This is the second time ever when two different actors
Speaker 1: have won an Oscar for playing the same character in
Speaker 1: different films. The first time happened was Marlon Brando won
Speaker 1: Oscar for playing Vito Corlone and The Godfather, and two
Speaker 1: years later Robert Denaro also won the Oscar for playing
Speaker 1: the same character and Godfather Part two. So there's only
Speaker 1: been two people Vito and Joker two characters that have
Speaker 1: done that. Walking Phoenix was considered to play Batman and
Speaker 1: Darren Aaron Offi's canceled Batman project of Batman Here One
Speaker 1: and Night Out, and I canceled two thousand versions of
Speaker 1: The Watchmen, so and I think he fits better here
Speaker 1: than like there. I think men in Hollywood. This would
Speaker 1: be like a fun cast to do.
Speaker 3: One time.
Speaker 1: You can divide them literally between batman and joker, like
Speaker 1: you could look and see, you know, show pure actor.
Speaker 1: Is that a Batman or joker? Click and going away?
Speaker 1: And to me when you show a picture of walking Phoenix,
Speaker 1: he before he's like, that's a joker. That's not a Batman,
Speaker 1: you know, And I think, I'm glad I know those
Speaker 1: movies happening got this And then finally, originally Warner Brothers
Speaker 1: wanted Martin Scorre says he to direct the film with
Speaker 1: Leonardo Dicapri stars Arthur which you can go back. There
Speaker 1: is a trust told that's what's about doing these. There's
Speaker 1: a when I used to do thought Bubbles, there was
Speaker 1: an episode where I talked about this rumor and at
Speaker 1: the time Robern Air was gonna play Murray Franklin. However,
Speaker 1: this did not was not logistically possible, as Danara or
Speaker 1: DiCaprio was filming Once upon a Time in Hollywood and
Speaker 1: was just start filming at the same time. Schurz says
Speaker 1: he had also commit himself to The Irishman, but However,
Speaker 1: d Naro had just finished filming his scenes for that film,
Speaker 1: and by time this film in a production, he was
Speaker 1: able to shoot.
Speaker 3: So there was a concept.
Speaker 1: And I remember that was the first rumor that Martin
Speaker 1: squarre says he was directing this, and it was big
Speaker 1: because he had said some comic book you know, comments
Speaker 1: that people didn't like it da But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's funny because he was talked about this.
Speaker 1: Snyder said he had a conversation about Leo uh doing
Speaker 1: Lex Luthor. So it's funny where he's told Shalme, like, hey,
Speaker 1: never do a com book movie. But like in last
Speaker 1: ten years he's had discussions always villains, supposedly, but like
Speaker 1: multiple times, Like I don't know, I don't think it's
Speaker 1: gonna happen, but like he is one.
Speaker 3: Of the last like holdouts as far as big actors
Speaker 3: than ever do.
Speaker 1: And I always I'm always curious that they're ever gonna
Speaker 1: get him or Tom Cruise to do one of these
Speaker 1: and you know, and again I could see this being
Speaker 1: his role, but I think this type of character, Like
Speaker 1: I'm not saying Walking's better actor than Phoenix. I'm just
Speaker 1: saying that I feel like the strengths of this role
Speaker 1: are more walking coded, you know, Like I just feel,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, it's like with Leo have done.
Speaker 2: He said, you said Joaquin is a better actor than Phoenix.
Speaker 3: Oh. I I'm not trying to say Walkin is a
Speaker 3: better actor than Leo.
Speaker 1: I think that's also an interesting conversation had because I
Speaker 1: think I think I've I leaned towards Woking. But still
Speaker 1: I think they've had many great roles over the years.
Speaker 1: But I also don't know what Leo have done this
Speaker 1: loss of fifty two towns and the body stuff.
Speaker 3: I really don't know. We're walking. He kind of gets
Speaker 3: in that stuff.
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying, Listen, if they were to announced, hey,
Speaker 1: Jim's Guns Universe, Leo's a joke, I'm like, hey, that's
Speaker 1: it's gonna be fucking great.
Speaker 3: But I think it's like a different type of.
Speaker 2: Grace, like Scorsese is the director.
Speaker 1: Yeah they kick any with shety out, Yeah, they just
Speaker 1: do this again. But again I think Leo like this
Speaker 1: type of Arthur Refleck that they gave Walking. I don't
Speaker 1: know if this would have been like up Leo's Ali
Speaker 1: per se, right, So I think it all all worked
Speaker 1: out for the best, so would.
Speaker 2: Have been lesser I think, but judge right, So what
Speaker 2: if Sitnario exactly so?
Speaker 3: And then what you switch out? You get Walking And
Speaker 3: here's the same thing.
Speaker 1: I may there's a version of that, but if you
Speaker 1: were to put Walking once upon a Time in Hollywood,
Speaker 1: I would also go, No, I think Leo's better there,
Speaker 1: Like that's the thing where in that situation go no, Leah,
Speaker 1: Leo is like he's a not Cliff but Rick Dalton
Speaker 1: Like no, that, like you know, it's just type of roles.
Speaker 3: So I already went.
Speaker 1: I gave this ten back in twenty eighteen, given it again.
Speaker 1: It's uh yeah, still love this movie after five years.
Speaker 1: Excited for the sequel, and like I said, I hope
Speaker 1: it's like at least like an a ten.
Speaker 3: I hope to enjoy it.
Speaker 1: I hope not to walk away bummed out. But either
Speaker 1: way it won't affect this one. I don't think.
Speaker 2: For me, I am gonna remain with a solid ten
Speaker 2: and ten on my feelings of this movie. Doesn't make
Speaker 2: me feel great, doesn't mean the movie's not great, but yeah, no,
Speaker 2: movies should strike some emotion, I think, uh and just yeah,
Speaker 2: and this one hits multiple throughout and Joaquin's just stellar.
Speaker 2: And I will say the score I appreciated a lot
Speaker 2: more this second time around. I you know, if I
Speaker 2: go through a movie and I don't, I don't necessarily
Speaker 2: like pick out the score. I don't. I don't think
Speaker 2: it's a bad thing, because I do think that it
Speaker 2: should blend together with the overall just experience of everything
Speaker 2: that's happening. But this time around, it just it stood
Speaker 2: out a lot more. I think it ties back to
Speaker 2: what I was saying, how like, this was a lot
Speaker 2: more of a It wasn't a musical, but it felt
Speaker 2: more musical. It just felt more of a musical than
Speaker 2: maybe I was expecting it to be. So Yeah, no,
Speaker 2: good good times, not good times. It's good movie, not
Speaker 2: great times.
Speaker 3: Good times.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this film it holds up every step of the way.
Speaker 4: I'm dropping the ten ten on it. It's fantastic. I
Speaker 4: love this movie.
Speaker 5: It's great.
Speaker 4: It's something that I'm glad that we did the retro
Speaker 4: for it and we watched it, and anticipation for the Filiadia,
Speaker 4: especially because Yeah, there's definitely development with this character that
Speaker 4: it's good to kind of be reminded of and just
Speaker 4: to kind of re immerse yourself in this world and
Speaker 4: what's going on. For example, it totally went over my
Speaker 4: head when Lady Gaga or Harley Quinn did her like
Speaker 4: her head gun thing, and then.
Speaker 5: That's obviously you guys talked about it with.
Speaker 4: Arthur Flex fake relationship girl doing that in the hallway.
Speaker 4: So just I'm just excited to see how many different
Speaker 4: little callbacks and little nods that they do. But yeah,
Speaker 4: I think that this movie is wonderful. It's it's just
Speaker 4: such a such an unexpected story that who would have
Speaker 4: thought that they would have needed it something based on
Speaker 4: The Joker. So I'm I'm definitely stoked to see the
Speaker 4: sequel and I'm stoked to revisit this film and watch
Speaker 4: it again in the future.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well there you go. Like they said, stay tuned
Speaker 3: next week, we will be reviewing Joker. Fully I do.
Speaker 1: I think it's no matter what, going to be an
Speaker 1: interesting review and I can't wait to get there.
Speaker 3: And I promise you it'll not be boring.
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye