Speaker 1: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Joker Retrospective.
I am the clown Prince of podcast Tres Snail and
I'm joined by.
Speaker 2: I'm the Clown comas I am the Murray Taylor Field.
Speaker 1: Yeah, threw me off because usually we're doing like a
series of retros, or we're.
Speaker 3: Doing you know, oh, it's our you know, our annual,
our annual Halloween Annual anal. It's our anal retrospective.
Speaker 1: We're watching the top ten anal videos on X videos.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: That's Arthur Fleck was doing now, And if he had
the Internet, that would just he wouldn't have been a criminal.
He would just been watching, just like he would have
been in the weird stuff though he had been watching
like the mom steps on type of stuff, like the
relationships he got's going on with his mom, right.
Speaker 3: Like weird weird guy, we're gonna talk about that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, usually it's a retro that's like, oh, we're
back to this, we're doing this today, but no, this
is a the second time we're doing this this year
or the ever in geek for his history that we've
never retro.
Speaker 3: To movie that we review. We did that with Deadpool.
I did Pool too early.
Speaker 1: We did it as like a combined episode earlier this
year because as we said when we started gig first,
we're never gonna retro something that's not five years older
or something we hadn't done before, and so Joker has
now it's been five years. But also, as I said
on the news, I'm always down to talk Joker.
Speaker 3: It's been a minute.
Speaker 1: But Taylor and Kirklan, we're not on the actual original
review for Joker. I don't know where those gentlemen were
at the time, but uh, it was myself Dylan Break.
So technically we have talked bus talk about gold Geeks,
but we're re talked about.
Speaker 3: Plus we got some trivia.
Speaker 1: And anything that might come up to because we do
the predictions episodes, So check out the newscast where we
have predictions. TA has a great chat GPT, a very
central chat GPT for this one.
Speaker 3: There's some throbbing going on.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but even watching this, I was like, oh,
there's some stuff that I because I didn't watch before
the prequel or the predictions, there's some stuff from like, oh,
I'm sure in conversation we'll talk about like what could
they do in the sequel at this and yeah, yeah,
yeahda but uh kurking pats are I will start with
you because you were basically trying to review last night
a newscast. What did you think about it when you
saw it originally? And what do you think about now?
Any change up or down? Exact same thoughts.
Speaker 3: Floor is yours.
Speaker 2: It is part two of my retro that I started
up yesterday.
Speaker 3: Ye go back the first parts there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, going back twenty nineteen when I watched this in theaters,
I remember just totally being like disturbed. I feel like
this movie is, at least for myself, it left me
very just with a yucky feeling like it is a
really heavy film that isn't just you know, it's no
thor Ragnarok. You don't you just put on to have
a good time and you can just you can just
do whatever, Like I'm not putting this onto the background
ever when I'm vacuuming my house, Like this is just
just I don't know. I feel like there's a lot
of heavy stuff in this in this movie, but that
also just speaks to like them completely nailing the target,
Like like I like totally what they are going for.
Joaquin feels not like walking like he feels like a
completely different character. He feels like Arthur Fleck and with
everything with his mannerisms with it, like, just man, what
a performance. And I can definitely appreciate the quality, but yeah,
it's not one that I was like racing to rewatch.
So yeah, I hadn't revisited it since then until uh yeah,
just on Monday there when I when I watched it
for the first time since.
Speaker 1: And uhcast, so you've only seen it twice now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I only seen it twice, and I will say
on this second viewing, they definitely still let me feel lucky.
But I feel like, maybe I don't know, I could
handle it a little bit more. Maybe I just knew
what was coming. Yeah, on a second viewing, like I
don't know, we'll go into it when we get there,
but I still think it's totally a masterpiece it. It
also was a lot more on the musical lines than
I was expecting, Like there's no song in dance, Well
there kind of is, but there's no like it being
a musical where he starts singing, but a lot of dancing,
and I feel like the music right, yeah, yeah, exactly,
So I feel I feel like the music is a
big aspect actually of this movie. And uh, it's not
like you know, now that I've seen it, it's like, okay, no,
I can totally see why the sequel could be like
a musical. I'm I was still open to the idea,
especially that Lady Gaga is going to be a big
part of it. But I don't know. It just it
just seems like a natural progression of the story. Like
it's so yeah, I am very like, just so much
more excited now for the sequel and yeah, no, really
good time. I'm excited to unpack with you guys because
I hadn't had the chance to do that on air since.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and because I'm gonna say this because I don't
want to forget.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to my overalls.
Speaker 1: But that's something too that I know some people it
was a debate when the movie came out. The stairs,
the scene where he goes down the stairs, right and
you got Gary Glitter's like rock and roll. I know
there's tons of people that hate that, right, They rather
just be the score. But I've always said the reason
I like that is because in his head it's rock
and roll music. But you make the transition to like
the dark ominous score by a great job I can't remember,
I can't pronounce her last name, but Hilder like it's
this dark onmos score. So for me, it's always like
in his head, he's like a rock star, but when
you look at real life, it's like, no, this is
a really tragic thing that's happening right. He's sending in
the madness. So it's kind of like what we thought
this musical was gonna be right with him and Harley,
where they're gonna have these big, grandiose numbers because they're
in love or they're going through this crazy experience, these
high highs, but in real life, like even the trailer,
I think they have that moment where they're dancing in
a musical number and they switch over to them dancing
in like a rainy Gotham, there's like destruction behind them,
Like it kind of fits where this is like I
think the musical might take what happened on the stairs,
but like Times at by ten as far as okay,
instead of just like a different track of music, you're
gonna see Arthur seeing like a whole different set piece
and characters and moments and all that stuff. So it
is a it's a good observation. Yeah, even just like
first time he kills someone, he's dancing in a bathroom,
you know, so it's like, you know, there's there's some
them there.
Speaker 4: So Taylor, Yeah, this, like I said before in our predictions,
the news episode over this week, this episode or sorry,
this movie. I really really like it. I saw it
twice in theaters.
Speaker 5: I just bought the hard copy as soon as it
came out.
Speaker 4: I just really really loved what they did with it
and this character, and it was It's been a while
since I've actually rewatched it, And so last night after
our newscast, I put it on it's like eleven o'clock
and went to bed at like one. It is like,
it's probably not the most ideal thing to put on
like in the wee hours before you go to bed,
especially at that one am mark. But I didn't feel
necessarily totally like trash, which.
Speaker 5: I'm glad about.
Speaker 4: I was just entertained, full throttle for the whole thing.
And it's yeah, it's just it still stands on its
own two feet. It's a really really good freakod movie.
There's lots of things that I forgot about lots of
little little moments just that take place, but there's still
definitely the big things that I'll just I'll never forget.
But he's just such a such a character that just
you feel like he's that anti hero, but not even
necessarily a hero, but just just a guy just trying
to not do right for other people. I don't even
know if he's doing right for himself. He's just doing
things and he feels free as the story progresses, and
you have what should be the good guys just being
pieces of shit, and everyone's just a piece of shit
except for I guess, Oh what is his name? He's
the guy that couldn't unlock the door.
Speaker 5: I think you're like David or David.
Speaker 3: I'll find out he's back in the sequel.
Speaker 4: In the sequel, Gary, he's in the sequel.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not gonna hurt you.
Speaker 5: Gary always nice to me.
Speaker 1: I think he's in the trial. I think he's one
of the people they interview.
Speaker 5: So, oh, that'll be cool. I'm excited then for that.
That's awesome.
Speaker 4: But yeah, no, I just think Joaquin Phoenix is fucking incredible.
The first scene that we get where he's got like
no shirt on, and he's just in his like the
locker room, like stretching his like clown shoe, and it's
just the way his back is and his arms. Fuck,
he just he's so different in this role and just
a total total shift of character.
Speaker 5: Like it's absolutely incredible.
Speaker 4: He does such a good job at really embodying this
this character. Again, not watching for a while, it just
it really kicks in, like wow, just these awkward moments
when he can't control his laughing and all those different
scenes that just say, it's.
Speaker 5: Just it's crazy. It's crazy.
Speaker 4: It's just how everything gets super tense as it leads
into that final act. It's just fucking phenomenal. So yeah,
it's absolutely incredible movie. And I'm excited to talk a
little bit more about the dynamic between like the Bruce
and Fleck and then Thomas and the mom and all
that stuff.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, so you can go you know, need
to go back. It's gonna say it here, but I
you know, watched it, loved the first go round, gave
it a ten at ten and you know, just to
cut to the chase, it stays to that level. For me,
it hasn't dropped at all, especially because like, this is
definitely a movie that I feel like a lot of
people have issues with or don't like.
Speaker 3: So I thought, oh, you.
Speaker 1: Know, eventually someone's gonna And I still think there's critiques
of the movies that work, right, Oh, I can see,
But I thought, Okay, maybe eventually because it is a
deeper movie, it's more psychological, and maybe that has to
be more perfectly strung together. It might not make sense,
but for me, I guess it just works on many levels.
Speaker 3: And one thing that we talked about last night we
did prediction.
Speaker 1: I said, oh, I'm excited, but I'm just not as
excited for that as the first one, because you know,
we kind of know what we're gonna somewhat expect, right.
Speaker 3: I'm hoping the case with the second one. We don't.
But I think we watched this because I don't remember
last time I rewatched.
Speaker 1: I felt like when it first came out, I watched
it a bunch because I don't have a problem of
watching depressing movies.
Speaker 3: That's kind of like a go to for me.
Speaker 1: I like character studies that are one like American Psycho Shame,
Like that's my bag. As we're gonna nope, we're gonna
fall very flawed individual Yeah.
Speaker 3: Dahmer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Dahmer is another one like we could I
could follow like shady, crazy dark individuals. And I like
that tar that just came out a couple of years ago.
Like I like, just okay, it's their journey. There's some
characters around, but really it's about them, right And for me,
I think what got me more excited this go around
was a huge plane passes by the story. Was nothing
more excited for the sequel but or sorry, not more
excited for this original but for the sequels.
Speaker 3: Like, man, it's just such a well made film. I
love just crashes.
Speaker 4: It's weird because I can hear I hear the fucking plane.
Speaker 1: We we live like we do just laugh on air,
just like just like just alone in the chat room.
The last image, it's just like it's that like fades
the black. But anyways, everything, especially when making a film
like I love just like the color grading of this movie,
just the color palette they choose. It just all, you know,
has this like rustic film feeling at times, but then
like the blues and the greens really stand down. They're
very bright, but they're bright in like a dark way.
It's not like a bright like superhero. It's just like
they stand out. So I love the way everything looks
between Gotham and just on the shots. So I think
that's what got me more excited, because like, I'm not
trying to shit in the genre, but just because they
make a lot of money, a lot of these comic
films get rushed and they don't take the time to
make you know, maybe to compose a shot well or
maybe work on their effects. And it's different again here too, right,
because like the only CGI in this movie is like
a couple of rats, so it's very different scales. But
I think this got me more excited than I was
even just last night time. But where I was excited,
I'm still very excited that man joking my favorite characters,
but just the shots, like oh yeah, like we're gonna
get a movie that's based on combook stuff that is
more grounded and is more about.
Speaker 3: The filmmaking side.
Speaker 1: So I think even for the people that would critique it,
there's lots of just great film shots. I still love
what they do with Arthur. I think that is a
problem for some people where it's not the character is
not black and white, there's people where they go, oh, well,
you know when he lets Gary go, that's not the
Joker to me, because the Joker would kill that guy.
And it's like, one, there's many versions of the Joker,
but two, I think when they're they're tackling mental health here,
it's not like black and white. It's not like many
people have different variations. And it's also not just someone
suffering from mental health. It's someone suffering from poverty. It's
someone's sent from physical abuse, it's someone suffering from just
a shitty life in general. He says that line to
his mom, right, like, I don't know if I've ever
been happy in my life, so and that is a
depression thing. But that's where I just feel like there's
multiple facets with the character that for me work and
I think makes some people feel uncomfortable. And I think
it's some things like again, there's this character does a
lot of terrible things, but in the middle of the movie,
they say, hey, are fun to get cut and you
get no more help, right, And that could be an
issue that's like a pointing right there of like society
and I talk about in our first Roam where my
dad was a psychiatrist. And that's the thing where it's like,
sometimes the system does fail people. You know, some people
are more willing to get help, but sometimes it's just
everything can't be perfect.
Speaker 3: That's with every job, right.
Speaker 1: So I think that's why I still enjoy this movie,
because I think it pushes the envelope and I can
understand why people if they don't like it because it's
too dark.
Speaker 3: I can understand if they feel because.
Speaker 1: Some people, I think still worry that, oh, it takes
mental health and it puts this very black cloud over it,
and you know, obviously he becomes this joker and serial killer.
It's it's I get people's problem of Okay, let's say
the joker is a guy that felm the chemicals. Well,
that's easy to say he's crazy, right because like, oh,
well he got sick and now he's crazy. Opposed to oh,
this is a guy that's like a regular person that
society or himself or his mother whatever it maybe got
him to this poor and we won't want to put
that image out there. But it doesn't matter because to me, like,
unfortunately that still happens.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: There's people that shoot up a bunch of schools and
buildings and you know, the dark Knight rises the screen.
It's like, these are people that suffer for mental health
and whether it's a system that fails.
Speaker 3: Them or people around them.
Speaker 1: And I do agree where it's just like that's something
that Todd phillips. You know, I think there's some bonehead
stuff he does that he said stuff like, oh, Colmedi's.
Speaker 3: You know, people can't be funnymore.
Speaker 1: He's one of those like, oh, like, I think he's
just mad that you can't say certain words I used
to say in The Hangover, right, like people can be
funny without having to do those. But I think when
he said one of the themes of this movie is kindness,
and it's a weird thing to say, but I do
agree because there's just certain moments where it's like, oh,
if there was one person to lend a hand to
this character, maybe there's a turning point, right, and that
I think is a good lesson for our life.
Speaker 3: Like even like and I'm almost in my overall, but.
Speaker 1: Even like Murray, like imagine if you're a hero like
ta who's your hero, like like hero like entertainment, Why
it's not like someone like Okay, Nick Cage, Let's say
Nick Cage. I don't think he's your hero, but let's
say Nick Cage, like.
Speaker 4: Hey, I would have gone with Robin Williams.
Speaker 1: Okay, Ron Okay, Well he's passed away, so he's not
gonna come. Kjim Carrick. Yeah, and let's just say he
saw Adrenochromer saw the next film working like man, that
taylor Field guy, he's awful, Like he's showing clips and
making fun of you, laughing like that's where it's like, yeah,
that's the kindest thing where this guy who is a
hero of him, an imaginary father figure. The first time
they like he sees him talking about him, it's making
fun of him. And that's what he always got to
think about your actions. So that's why for me this
movie still holds up visually. The score is she obviously
won the Oscar for it, but very well deserved. It's
one of the best combook scores ever, and I can't
wait to see what she does along with the musical
stuff and the sequel. Even the side characters are great.
The mother is great. I love Thomas Wayne here, He's
such a little shithead. So yeah, I still absolutely love
this one. It's always like a joy to watch as
far as a filmmaking point of view, So thousand thousand percent.
So where do I want to go?
Speaker 2: Where do we want to go? I had a point
when you're doing your overall, but it's.
Speaker 3: Mental health talking about the school.
Speaker 2: The demon. There's a demon.
Speaker 3: You can't see the.
Speaker 5: Fuck that's terrifying.
Speaker 3: For a second, turn your camera.
Speaker 2: What was I gonna say? Oh, yeah, that's what I
was gonna go with. Yeah, Like like this, I feel
like an observation that I had on this second viewing
compared to my first time around, is this this journey
very much is centered around Arthur Fleck. But I feel
like something that I I just noticed a lot more
in this viewing is that like there's like a massive
like what would you call it, just just like breaking
apart of of of like classes in in Gotham here,
like like it's like a main thing of what's going
on in the Backgroundio. Yeah, and like like just the
whole idea of like wearing like the clown Mass and
like this whole movement like they're using Arthur flex image
of him in the Clown Mass because he is the
one that killed those those three people, like he basically
ignited the flames of this like big rebellion thing that's
going on and accidentally accidentally and like it's very much
not the center of the movie at all, like I
care about it. It's completely going on in the background,
and like even if he does see stuff going on
with it, like he never is actually like, oh my god,
I did that, and like this is actually happening. Like
even when he's having yeah, it's it's between him and
Murray and he's like talking about the riots, He's like,
I don't care about any of that, and it's just
it is really interesting that like that, like that is
probably the it's it's like in The Batman with Pattinson
and just like the massive floods of what's going on
in Gotham, Like it's such a massive thing that's like
completely shaking the whole foundation of what what's going on
in Gotham, and I just I don't know, Like I
obviously knew that it was going on in the first
time viewing because of the just the ending and it's
right in your face, but it's just like a it's
like a storm that's going on in another country or
something like like because we're just so focused on Arthur
fleck and like what's actually going on on the ground.
So I don't know, I just I think I admired
it on on on that because most of the time,
when you have a big event, it's like, Okay, now
we're going straight to the action on on the ground,
and because that's just like a fast and exciting thing
to watch, but we're a lot more invested on the
inside of the character and just what's going on with
his with his psyche and and how he's interfacing with
the world. And yeah, I don't know, it's just really
really neat no.
Speaker 3: And I love that.
Speaker 1: So if you're told Murray when I can't remember the
character's name but he's played by God, Now I forgot
the comedian's name too. He's like his he's like his
side show. He's like his Andy to his Conen. But
he's like the guy who's like his handler. Right, he's
on the show Gan g. Yeah, I'm trying to think
of his real name.
Speaker 3: He was on Mark Mark Mark Marin. Yeah, great actor, great.
I like him a lot. When he says like, oh
he doesn't know about the shooting.
Speaker 1: That happened the subway merging, Oh yeah, I'm sure he doesn't,
and Arthur's like, I had no idea, but he said
it so holy, and Mari He's like, oh fuck, like
we might be in a little trouble here, but that's
why I love until the very end. That doesn't really
matter to him, right, He's like, I don't care about
any of that stuff. It's just kind of like the
only reason he cares is at one point it's on
the news about oh, there's some shootings, and he just
cares because people are talking about him.
Speaker 3: But he doesn't care.
Speaker 1: He's not there for that eat the rich, he's not
there for the uprising just kind of happens. And that's
why I think I've always said that's why the Manson
cult like thing could work for a sequel, because you're
gonna have this character like that where there's tons of
people that are just lost that will glom onto anything.
Speaker 3: We see that in society.
Speaker 1: We see that with politics, where it's like, oh, this
person becomes like a godlike figure when really they probably
don't even care about you. You're just like an ant
on their radar. And that's like Arthur Offuly. Arthur's not
like a billionaire, he's not a politician. And but he's
on such a different rapid journey. He didn't he didn't
care about the clowns and what the next elections like
and everything, but he benefits off of it. So it's
and I just love Gotham in general. I love the
garbage strike. I love that just looks like a like
the way like obviously Nolan's went for the very big
city Gotham passes Gotham when is a very kind of
like creepy, just you don't want to be and you
don't want to be in any of these Gothams really,
but it's a very creepy Gothic type of Gotham.
Speaker 3: Burns is very scary and just kind of.
Speaker 2: Uh choose maybe with some some penguins with.
Speaker 1: I definitely picked Nolan's. Nolan's very crimeri in but still
it's like it's just like a normal city, right.
Speaker 3: But this what I like about this Gotham.
Speaker 1: It's just kind of like gross, like the garbage strike,
a garbage to this are piling up, there's rats everywhere.
It just feels very eighties, very oppressed people having this issue.
So I love this type of very broken and it
makes it feel kind of a character in the background.
Speaker 3: So I'm interesting what they doing the sequel there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think as far as just the the scenery
of Gotham, it's funny going off with the Penguin Show
and then seeing it here just to have these two comparisons.
I haven't seen the Nolan films for a while, I
haven't seen The Batman for a bit, So the the
two worlds, Yeah, they they both feel disgusting and just
kind of like the poverty and just when you look
at this one though, like garbage everywhere and you got
super rats running around apparently, and just absolutely chaotic and
just businesses closing down left, right and center. It just
does not feel like a great economic boom of a of.
Speaker 5: A place to be.
Speaker 4: It's just how any alleyway you can go down, you
just get fucking kick the shit out of you.
Speaker 3: But and and shot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, what was the first half of this question?
Aside from like we.
Speaker 1: Just like the like the background with Arthur with the
riots and the clown people and everything like that and
taking his accidental message.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's is it supposed to be coincidence
or just just like meant to be that the masks
that people are using for the riots just resembles what
he was wearing that night on the train when.
Speaker 5: He kills those three guys.
Speaker 3: No, I think it's a purpose by them.
Speaker 2: They that description right of the killer, described as wearing
like a clown mask, and.
Speaker 1: Everyone, I think just takes it as all this guy's
standing up for us, and that I think there's another
good message for today.
Speaker 3: That happens a.
Speaker 1: Lot where people you're putting your own ideas into something,
but really it might not be the exact situation.
Speaker 5: So oh absolutely, and you have to be careful with that.
Speaker 4: And so he even at the end when he's like
dancing on top of the vehicle and he's just having
a having a good time, he's just he's not you
guys already highlighted. He's not doing it for them, and
he's not doing it for the cause, like he says
when he's talking to Murray, He's just doing it just
because he's starting to feel himself, he's starting to feel free.
And he I mean, he convinced me that a part
of him genuinely wants people to be nicer and kinder
because he just he's just throughout the film, he's just
constantly reoccurringly stating like oh, you know, you're so rude,
You're so mean, YadA, YadA, YadA, And so it's just
him kind of against rudeness.
Speaker 5: I feel like.
Speaker 1: There's part of that, but I love that's that'd be
the pitch, like what's your pitch for joking?
Speaker 3: Okay, joker against rudeness? Like okay, god, we're not funding
this movie.
Speaker 2: It was like an elementary school book or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly those kid versions. But uh yeah, and you
guys said, I guess I didn't shout out either. But
it's like it's a non factor, Like he won Golden
he's like walking given like an old timer here.
Speaker 3: He's so goodness. Like you said, I don't see him
in this role.
Speaker 1: And what I always bring up is why I don't
know what the ratio is gonna be like in part too,
But I've always said that I feel like he does
make a real distinction that once he's in the makeup
and he goes down the stairs, he does feel different.
He still feels like the Arthur we've been watching, but
he just feels like he has like a level of
confidence that he didn't have before the last He just
lets them out a post like trying to hold them back,
which I always still think is like a great gimmick.
I think I said that from the first tray we saw, like,
I love that That's how Joker gets his laugh is
when he feels uncomfortable, it makes him laugh. It's like, oh,
that's just like a smart like tie to like a
sort of illness. Think, but the whole back half, the whole,
and I think I like people should watch it. Where
Tarantino was talking about Joker, he's like, oh, like, I
like the movie enough, But why he says, like, at
least the third acts masterful is when you get to
walking Phoenix's Joker and he's there and you know he's
either there to kill himself or he's probably gonna kill Murray, right,
And the way that Phillips and the whole team, the
Right Team and Phoenix accident says, you make it in
a way where even if he's a little rude, you're
actively kind of wanting Joker to shoot Robert de Naro
when really though he's just like a regular guy who
makes some jokes that probably has a wife and kids
and everything. But they do in such a good job
putting it from his perspective, and because he was rude,
even though in the middle Dannaro was talking about how
like there's riots out there and you think it's funnyuse
people are dead, like that's sick, but they do such
a good job of flipping that and that. Like I
was saying, I think Phoenix, when he's in the makeup,
he feels like, I wouldn't say, like the joker, like
I want to see it against Batman, but he feels
like a joke or he feels like something different than
what Arthur Fleck was. And I'm curious to see how
much he's in the actual makeup in the sequel and
if he does that again, because I do think there
is a difference between Arthur and the makeup and Arthur
not in the makeup, where I wasn't sure when we
first saw the movie if that was going to be
the case, but I think there is a level of,
you know, a sort of mass that comes on when
he gets that paint on.
Speaker 2: So oh, one hundred percent, yeah, I think it's it
feels very clear like just where he is I think
in the story based on like when he has the
makeup versus not it's I don't know, it just seems
like he's hiding behind his own like figure, like when
he doesn't have the makeup on, whereas when he puts
it on, that's when he's like superpowered and juiced. And
yeah no, I just just aces across the board with
Joaquin honestly throughout this this whole thing. But like Taylor,
you're shouting out his just his like his physique, I
guess in this movie. It's just like, man, he just
looks so he looks like he has like a dislocated
shoulder in this movie. And I'm like, I don't know
what they teach in acting school to get your body
to fucking do that or anything like that, but like
it's just yeah, he he he sounds not well and
he looks unwell when he's on screen, and yeah, just man,
I don't know. They just do such a good job
at like he does like he's a murderer. He does
awful things in the story, but just the direction of
the film, like they just make it you want want
to feel sympathy for this character and like the people
that like him, right, Like they do do a good
job at making the viewer want to support the uh
they eat the rich movement and just like these people
looking down on them, and like you you mentioned Thomas
Wayne there Travis in your early talk, and yeah, he's
just totally like a like just an asshole, like right,
like like Arthur's like just like talking about his mother
and all these things. He just does not care at
all and just has no time for it. And I'm
not saying, like Thomas Wayne shit like owes him all
these things. You know, we'll we'll talk about what the
legitimate legitimacy of all that stuff is.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 2: They do just a really good job. And you do
kind of want to see Robert and you get shot
in that in that sequence, because yeah, like he is
just kind of bringing him on here to be a bully,
right and just just laugh at this guy and just
take advantage of like someone with severe mental health issues
and just like posting the video like without permission. Like
to me, it's just like how like how does that
even happen?
Speaker 1: But whatever, he was an eighties though right back then
it wouldn't I feel like that's true like drawback, it's.
Speaker 2: Just oh, it probably happened all the time, perc.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it was wild wild West wen
Now it's like, yeah, that would go to Twitter, you'd
get a bunch of shit for that. So yeah, yeah,
hey there, where do you want to go next?
Speaker 4: Oh, I wouldn't mind talking about the mum dilemma. And
it's this kind of went over my head, the fact
that there was adoption papers at play here.
Speaker 5: Uh I did. I totally forgot about that.
Speaker 4: So I'm curious, Okay, is this something that the Wayne
family and Alfred just spun this narrative to try and
derail the possible truth.
Speaker 5: Again, it's up to interpretation.
Speaker 4: But I'm maybe leaning on the side of the fact
that Fleck is not the child of Thomas Wayne and
that yeah, the mom was just absolutely fucking bonkers and
then just did adopt him.
Speaker 5: That's kind of where I stand on that.
Speaker 2: My prediction on this, my little to add my two
cents to the to the top. Yeah, it's gonna get
spoken about in Joker too. It's gonna be a big
talking about. Yeah, they're gonna go on, Mari, you are
not the father.
Speaker 1: Arthur fle just sitting there with the corpse of Thomas Wayne.
Speaker 2: I I feel like, yes, he is not the blood
relative to Thomas Wayne or anything like that. I still
think that there was like some sort of relation sexually
between the mother and Thomas Wayne, and just the fact
that she like signed like you know, NDA's and stuff
like that, like the fact that they would have even
had to go through that process. Clearly something happened there.
And I don't know, like I don't feel strongly that
he isn't like the broad relative like you could spin
in that direction, but I just think how the scene
actually played out makes me think that, yeah, she's just
totally fucked in the head. And just like when yeah,
that moment when like the officer is just like detailing
like the physical abuse that like happened to like little Arthur,
it's just like, oh my god, Like this is I
get it now why he's like this right. And then
that's when you just feel awful because you're like, man,
like this, it's not even his fault why he is
like this right, And like again, it's just adding to
the I do want to root for this individual, even
though I've seen him murder people. So yeah, it's it's people.
Speaker 3: That point though.
Speaker 1: Right at first, it's like the guys are about to
maybe sexually assault a woman, so I think they're smart
to play it off that way. And then eventually gets
to like you know, Murray and more innocence to come
my image and so yeah, and I'm sure that doctor
he killed an Arkham when he's dancing, like, I don't
think they deserved it, you know.
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, probably not. But yeah, no, I I
think I think I lost my train of thoughts all
passed along trace.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think for me.
Speaker 1: And this is something you'll see when we have our
second film that I like scenarios like this where it
is up for interpretation and there's molth ways you can
take it, because you could look at this and go, well,
she fantasized this whole situation about Thomas Wayne, and we
see Arthur fantasize the whole relationship with as he beats right,
that's not even real. So you can completely that string
is there if you want to be like Tai and
believe that, oh it's not his kid, right, because it's
just she was crazy, maybe went out of line, maybe
she saw something it there, who knows. But then the
other route is this is a guy that's a billionaire,
he's running for mayor. You could ease, especially in the eighties,
easily fudge the numbers, delete it, you know, get rid
of a paper trail, all that jazz like like knock
someone up, like oh, we'll say he's adopted, Like there's
so much you could do there. And I think the
other thing that helps with that is they make Alfred,
they make Thomas complete assholes.
Speaker 3: And that'd be different if they're nice people.
Speaker 1: They go, well, I don't know if I'd buy this,
but I think because they make them so kind of
crummy and at the same time too again on that string,
they can make them crumby because maybe Penny Fleck, a
fucking crazy person that was obsessed with Thomas, won leave
alone and now you have her son, who was another
crazy person unfortunately had holding Bruce Wayne by the mouth,
and Alfred's like, fuck man, Like I thought this was
dealt with. So that's why I love like both ways.
Both avenues have warrant to them. I think for me,
I like thinking it is his dad, because one I
would like a version I thought we were gonna get
this in The Batman, we didn't. I like at least
one version of the Wayne's being shitty. I kind of
wish they did that with The Batman, and they kind
of pull it back when Alfred's like, well, he didn't know,
you know, they were gonna kill your parent, Like he
like what he makes some deal with Carmen and foul
Cole in the Batman. I'm not sure if you guys remember,
and then Alfred it's like, well he didn't know I
was gonna get that bad. It's like, okay, so was
it accidental? And that's what they leave that up for interpretation.
Not as strong as this one, i'd say, But for me,
I like this just because there's a big theme with
his mother, but a big themes with the father as
far as one, he's missing a father. Two he looks
at Murray as a father figure. And then if Thomas
Wayne is also's father, he's another father figure. That's just
complete lea a shit heel to him. So I think
that's why I like it, because with him and Murray,
like sorry Thomas and Murray, it's like a good just
more just piling on. If he keeps finding these like
father figures and they keep failing him, you know, because
if it's just like, oh, I'm not your father, then
that's not really like on Arthur to be disappointed. It's like, oh, well,
this guy's nothing to do with me. But That's why
I like it better if it is his dad and
this guy just put him to shit, and then I
kind of like, you know, I know some people don't
like it as you know, you see the Waynes get
shot again, but I kind of like that full circle
of Okay, Thomas Wayne knocks his girl up, kicks for
the curb, and then years later that same kid, you know,
starts a riot that like leads to his death, which
some people might say it's cheesy. Maybe some people or
sometimes some situation I would be in this movie. It's
not so it's I say, Thomas is his dad, But
I like, I don't want there to be like an answer.
I don't have to be like, oh, well this is
you know, it's not like inception with the fucking totem.
You know, we're talk abos trivia, like we know what
the totem is. Stop fucking lying everybody with this. I'm like,
I'm glad it's kind of left up for interpretation. So
anything he's saying on zazzy beats and uh walking Phoenix,
I think for the little bits there and they got
good chemistry even though it's all fake, And I still
think that's like one of the more chilling scenes than
a company just actually in film in general. That when
he goes to her place that night, Yeah, and he
like the whole reveal, like that's like the.
Speaker 3: Score that done done. It's like it's good. Shit, man, it's.
Speaker 2: Good getting goosebumps just thinking about it. Yeah, that like
it's funny now like watching it for a second time now,
Like to me, it's just like, Okay, I'm so surprised.
Well I'm not really surprised, but still it's just like
this is like how did I fall for this? You know,
like like just like with everything that's going on, like
he just like goes they start macing and like you
know he was following her, Yeah, like followed me. It's
like yeah, and like it's just super easy. So and like, man,
I will fully admit I was completely like roped in
the first time. It's like, man, he's got this one
pillar with him. It's like keeping him grounded. This is nice.
Maybe there's some potential of him having a happy life.
And then yeah, when that scene happens, like to get
that reveal, like it just like shook me. I was like,
oh my god, that is just insane. And then they
show everything from the comedy like everything that he just
was imagining in his mind. And yeah, so I I
loved it, and you know, like the first time around,
the second time around it a little bit harder to
like believe because I've seen that trick. But it's also
it's like, well, fuck, I fell for it so easily
the first time around, Like I can't just yeah, well,
I can't just say that, like, oh, it's so hard
to believe that, you know, because like I fully ate
into it. But no, I did really like her inclusion
in it, and as you stated, like they do have
good on screen fake chemistry, well real fake chemistry, I guess,
but uh yeah, I liked also how like in reality
she isn't even really like a part of the bit
like she is it's just like almost an extra level character, yes,
but like for in his imaginary world, she's she's a
lot more of a side character, or just more of
an important side character maybe. So yeah, no, I'm I
think it's fantastic.
Speaker 1: Kirklan said he got goose bums this Kirkland. At anytime, a
joker's about on Invada Woman's house.
Speaker 3: Just as sure as a rock is covered in chills already.
Speaker 1: Jesus right go, but I just left how they f
ent from her perspective of imagine, if you were just
anigh or you walk in in this name, that's a
little awful. You just walked in your home and he's
just sitting there, and he turns back and just that
look walking has he just puts a gun head He
would think. I don't know if this meme existed when
this movie came out, but that's a full It's over
for you in the moment right there. If a guy
turns you with a gun news that it's like and
again I like that they leave that ambiguous.
Speaker 3: You don't know what happened in that room. You don't
know if he just left.
Speaker 1: You don't know if he killed somebody, because people point
out that right after you hear like a sound of
an ambulance. But like I think one of them up
said like, no, no, that doesn't happen. But in the
movie they sure don't show us that character ever again,
so it's like they definitely whatever they want to say,
they leave it up for interpretation. So I think another
another good choice. So Kirkland or sorry Teya was mass
in doing that too, and you ate all our ice
Cream Watch.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I still think that to this day. It's just Yeah,
one of the most craziest revelations. Just when he's like
he said, Travis, he's sitting in that apartment on the
on the couch, and you think, oh, he's just he
went to her apartment. It's yeah, like it's just fuck,
it's fucking crazy. She comes out screaming and you're like, oh,
you live down the hall and this that sets in
that revelation, it's like, oh my god, like how much
of this whole movie has been only in his head?
Like what's what's real and what's fake. So they do
a fantastic job and she's great. I I even though
they're all in his mind scenes and them together, I
liked their chemistry and I liked them together. I think
they had a lot of fun. But I remember looking
into it, I think that there was like Todd Phillips
did have more scenes with her, and that's maybe touching
into like the trivia part, but I think he did
confirm them No, she is alive.
Speaker 1: He did, but he cut the scene that day because
at one point they show her watching the Murray Show.
This all go down, but he cut it, and I
think they.
Speaker 3: I think they were smart cuts.
Speaker 1: So he in his mind he might have it, and
I do have it too because I think at that
point Arthur wouldn't do that. I think you get to
Arthur once he gets the makeup on. That's a different story.
But I think to me, that's the point of the
movie where there's you're showing in this joke or you're
showing stages of Okay, he did kills some dirt bags, right, Okay,
he kills a guy that maybe was an asshole to
at where gave him a gun, but really they deserve that,
they deserve.
Speaker 3: His eye socket like stabbed.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but still say, Okay, you're getting worse
and worse and worse and then two or sorry, like
kind of better better better as far as like shitty criminals,
bad guy at work, radio show hosts or talk show hosts.
That's where it's like, maybe the next time if he
did see Zazie Beach, she might not make it out alive. Right,
same thing with Gary, like he nicely lets her out.
So to me, I don't think he did anything, but
you know, again you don't see him again, so you
never know, So anywhere else to go specifically that we
haven't talked about yet.
Speaker 2: Uh you mentioned the laugh. That's yeah, just such a
chilling aspect of this movie. And it's just like, I
don't know, I I just feel like it's a perfect
way to have the laugh in this universe of the
Joker and just just his delivery of every like every
time it happens. I absolutely love when he's in his
his clown dressing room and Buddy like says that joke
and then he just like bursts out laughing and walking
turns the corner and he's just like like completely straight
faced and it's like, Okay, this guy, this guy's got
a couple of screwed loose. But yeah, I know it's
I don't know, it's just more of Walking being fucking
phenomenal of just just the delivery of every thing on that.
Speaker 1: And again in that moment you brought up, though, I
don't think he actually laughs. I think it's because he's
because they make like a short joke about Gary, and
I think he's just uncomfortable so he laughs. That's when
he walks away and he's had a situation, he stops laughing.
So I think it's that again where it's just like
he because he's not making any like Gary Short jokes
or anything.
Speaker 3: And yeah, just a don't know whoever came up with
that idea, but a great way. And uh, you know,
even the scene on.
Speaker 1: The bus with like like you just imagine if you
had that condition, it would it would be awful. As
far as he's playing with this kid, this mom just
is kind of like a complete assolet leave my son alone.
But then because he's nervous, he starts to laugh, and
then the more people look at him as laughter goes on,
he has to hand this card. Like I think the
first asterod does a great job of showing you like
if you had these things going in your life, like yeah,
you would develop some issues with yourself because you're just
constantly being looked down upon and it's can't be can't
be easy.
Speaker 2: The sequence when he goes to the comedy show and
he's just like trying to get like inspiration, it just
seemed like like he his part of me, his Oh
my god, his level of humor is just so disjointed
with like what is actually funny, Like he's just completely
off everyone else's.
Speaker 1: Where I just don't know if he's laugh like he
thinks other people are gonna laugh, and they don't laugh,
but he's the only one because the oh there's times
where that come he in saying lines that there's it's
just like the setup stuff and he's just by.
Speaker 3: And everyone's just like quiet. It's it's so good.
Speaker 1: And again, speaking of colmy stuff, I know it's his set,
but I think they do such a good job of
again who knows.
Speaker 3: I guess it is real because he's there. We don't
says he beats not.
Speaker 1: But I think they do such a good job of Man,
that is just awkward as fuck. You feel like you're
in the crowd and you're watching some comedian just eat it.
And he starts to flip through his book and just
like has fucking nude photos of women. You're just like,
oh my god, Arthur, like that me that meme of
him with the book, like it's there for a reason
because that scene is just that is like it's skin
crawling just to see.
Speaker 3: This person up there just trying.
Speaker 1: And then, like I said later on Murray's fucking railroads
the force because he feels like even worse about that
because what sucks in his mind, he distorted that to
be like a good memory, right, he looks up sees
as he beats, and then the.
Speaker 3: Crowd is like laughing. I don't think they're actually laughing
with him.
Speaker 1: But he takes it and this probably awful thing that's
happening makes it into a good memory. But then Murray
like takes it away from him, like almost brings them
back to reality of like, oh that good thing you imagined,
Yeah it's not real.
Speaker 3: You're a fucking loser.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that scene is great, scene of him just
flipping through his pages. So I think on the the
we're talking about some of his comedy first Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, his uh like his first ah you know someone
someone I'm sure loves his jokes, not really me. I
think when he first is showcasing his book when he's
in that session with his therapist and it's like, you
don't bring the book and I see it and she
opens it up and it's just it doesn't look like
it's a healthy.
Speaker 5: A healthy situation.
Speaker 4: And what is the thing that she says, I look
like I look forward to dying because then my my
life I can't know.
Speaker 3: It's yeah, the joke is like, uh like my life.
Speaker 1: It's like my life doesn't make sense if I die.
It's it's it's it's.
Speaker 2: I hope I make more sense or I hope my
life makes more sense after I die, Like.
Speaker 1: The doll, like the dollar, Yeah exactly, which is you know,
kind of a fun prelude to what's gonna happen so.
Speaker 4: M and so like I I think, yeah, it's got
a little interesting little foreshadow, I guess, And yeah, it's
just what segues into that club scene and him just
with his book and all the crazy shit he's got
in there. It's just it's it's bonkers. It really really
is bonkers. But but you remind me so the whole
set up with.
Speaker 5: I guess not that therapist.
Speaker 2: But.
Speaker 1: I know she's the same therapist throughout, like the one
that kicks him in the curb later, she's not the one.
Speaker 3: To the end that gets murdered.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was a different one. Yeah, because I thought
there was. I thought there was.
Speaker 4: A discussion about when those sessions were taking place.
Speaker 5: But I guess that's because I thought.
Speaker 4: There was something about like maybe the him talking to
was it at the end when she's he's talking to
the end therapist and that's actually like, ah, are you.
Speaker 3: Trying to say that the whole movie is like a
dream that sort of thing.
Speaker 4: No, not a dream alow, but I feel like he's
just like recounting the events and like, again, its just
sit in hand with how he imagines these things in
a certain way, right, Like he likes to paint the
picture like, oh, this is actually a happy memory for himself,
and I feel like this is its tribulations for but
it does end in a happy sort of way for him.
And even at the end when he's like, you know,
you wouldn't get it. And I just feel like that
was one of the interpretations and discussions of him and
just how they did this this setup of his narrative,
if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's why there's a lot of people that
don't like the sequel idea, because there's some people that
like the idea like it's all dream or all story,
because they have that moment when he's talking to the
first therapist that won the sessions, he said, oh, I
was more happier when I was like in Arkham or institute, right,
And they just do a quick cut to him like
banging his head against the glass, but he's wearing like
the exact same outfit he is at the end of
the movie. So some people like to speculate like, oh, yeah,
it is just all like a thing. I never liked that.
I don't mind certain segments of it's a dreamer made up.
Speaker 3: I don't the whole movie.
Speaker 1: Being a dreamer a scenario is kind of is a
tough situation. But no, again, I like that they have
that stuff in there, and I do like another moment
in the very first session, she gets that book and
she wants to look at and he's.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, I you know I'm gonna I'm gonna pursue
a career in stand up comedy.
Speaker 1: And she's like, oh yeah, I didn't know that. He's like, yeah,
you did. We've talked about it.
Speaker 3: But that's why I like.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, again, is she just a shit person
that doesn't really care about him? Or in his mind,
has he had this conversation with her about being a
stand up comedian but she was not present because it's
in his fucking mind that But he's like kind of
offended by it, Like he's not he's not outwardly angry,
but just kind of quiet. And it's just a great
choice by walking in there. So anything else specifically before
were going to trivia and some ratings.
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I don't think anything really specific
that we didn't cover. Terrible idea to bring a gun
to a child's hospital.
Speaker 3: It's part of his act though, correct.
Speaker 2: That's definitely definitely fireable offense. I think, you know, all
things considered, I think his boss, you know, he gave
it like first instance happened, and then you know, the
gun like okay, yeah, a couple of warnings. Now he's
he's he's gone.
Speaker 3: And I love that too.
Speaker 1: When he's just talking, he's like going off about you know,
the sign everything.
Speaker 3: And then it fades the music and Arthur just saying that,
like he just.
Speaker 1: Looks so fucking creepy. He's just like he looks like
he wants to break down and cry. And then the
smash cuts him the like the alleyway, like kicking the
ship in the garbage and everything. But he's just like
trying to stay composed and such a good moment there, but.
Speaker 2: A little two when he's leaving the office, like oh,
forgot to punch out.
Speaker 3: If someone did that nowadays, i'd be like, I'm quitting.
This guy's coming back and.
Speaker 2: We're fuck it's just Dane Cook's kid.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh I love your Google, your Jubilee fans or whatever
they are. But yeah, it's that he's like fucking spray paints.
Don't smile. You'd be like, yeah, it's over for us,
you know. So uh and then just a quick shout
out for me because it's on my notes. I always
love the uh the music drop of white Room by
Cream when he's in the like the Police Wagon at
the end. Everything, just love it with the ending, the scene,
the score.
Speaker 3: Good stuff. But yeah, white Room is a favorite of mine.
Speaker 2: So music's great in this movie.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Plaite is in the second Okay, Walking Phoenix called perfecting
the Joker's laugh the toughest part of playing the character.
He based laughed on videos of people suffering from pathological laughter.
He also sought out to portray a character in which
the audiences could not identify. Pathological laughter is a real
life disorder which causes the patient stuffer from uncontrollable laughter
attack in response to tents or stressful situations. Although the
disorder isn't usual, these attacks can stop the normal flux
of oxygen to the brain and lungs, causing hypother or
no hyperventilating, No hypo, hypo hyposia. I don't think I've
ever said this word.
Speaker 3: It's hypo and x I a hypoxia, hypoxia. Yeah, I've
never fucking.
Speaker 2: Since likeox or something like that.
Speaker 3: Well, there you go.
Speaker 2: She said that word once or twice.
Speaker 3: It could cause that, so you know, some damage along
the way.
Speaker 1: We've talked about this in many weeks, but just in
case someone listens to this and a bottle, first RATEDAR
film to ever cross a billion, So there you go.
Walking said he lost about fifty two pounds for this role.
He talked about the conception of the Joker change during
production and what interested him about the character. Throughout the
course of shooting, it felt like every day we were
discovering new parts of his personality. Up until the very
last day, it was a struggle for him to find
happiness and feel connected to and to feel connected, to
feel warm and love, a part of character I was
so interested in. He was so many different things to me.
Who he was in the first few weeks of shooting
was completely different than who he was at the end.
He constantly was evolving. I never had experienced like this
more unpredictable and loocier we left it.
Speaker 3: It was more exciting.
Speaker 1: So and again something with a movie pointing this out.
Costing fifty five billion, this is the least expensive film
to ever gross a billion dollars. So easy, I think probably.
I don't know the list of moth profile films ever,
but this has to be up there. But again, stuff
that you can kind of do in a smaller way
is maybe change some sort of arcs or many things
to do with it. But I let's see here, Walking
unexpectedly shed in a tier during the first take when
his character looked to the mirror, Todd Phillips kept it
in Walking. Todd Phillips said he played the film's score
for Walking because he won the music to effect and
infect in a set in a way during the first
take the score is playing. Films revealed that Walking is
struggling with Arthur's smile a little tear peers. We just
had that scene and we moved on. I had something else.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Taking a page from Sergia Leone, Todd Phillips as composer
to write the score before filming, something that's usually unusual
in Hollywood.
Speaker 3: This was in order to set the mood for the movie.
Speaker 1: And I think also we had got that when we
got I think some early teasers and they released it stuff.
But I think that really helps for this movie because
I do think a lot of that score is such
smooth sitting, whether it's the action stuff, whether it's especially
the bathroom dance scene, like it has a tone. So
I think that was a very smart thing to do there.
Walking Phoenix is now the second actor win Academy Award
for playing the Joker, off the previous winner, Keith Fledgcher.
This is the second time ever when two different actors
have won an Oscar for playing the same character in
different films. The first time happened was Marlon Brando won
Oscar for playing Vito Corlone and The Godfather, and two
years later Robert Denaro also won the Oscar for playing
the same character and Godfather Part two. So there's only
been two people Vito and Joker two characters that have
done that. Walking Phoenix was considered to play Batman and
Darren Aaron Offi's canceled Batman project of Batman Here One
and Night Out, and I canceled two thousand versions of
The Watchmen, so and I think he fits better here
than like there. I think men in Hollywood. This would
be like a fun cast to do.
Speaker 3: One time.
Speaker 1: You can divide them literally between batman and joker, like
you could look and see, you know, show pure actor.
Is that a Batman or joker? Click and going away?
And to me when you show a picture of walking Phoenix,
he before he's like, that's a joker. That's not a Batman,
you know, And I think, I'm glad I know those
movies happening got this And then finally, originally Warner Brothers
wanted Martin Scorre says he to direct the film with
Leonardo Dicapri stars Arthur which you can go back. There
is a trust told that's what's about doing these. There's
a when I used to do thought Bubbles, there was
an episode where I talked about this rumor and at
the time Robern Air was gonna play Murray Franklin. However,
this did not was not logistically possible, as Danara or
DiCaprio was filming Once upon a Time in Hollywood and
was just start filming at the same time. Schurz says
he had also commit himself to The Irishman, but However,
d Naro had just finished filming his scenes for that film,
and by time this film in a production, he was
able to shoot.
Speaker 3: So there was a concept.
Speaker 1: And I remember that was the first rumor that Martin
squarre says he was directing this, and it was big
because he had said some comic book you know, comments
that people didn't like it da But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's funny because he was talked about this.
Speaker 1: Snyder said he had a conversation about Leo uh doing
Lex Luthor. So it's funny where he's told Shalme, like, hey,
never do a com book movie. But like in last
ten years he's had discussions always villains, supposedly, but like
multiple times, Like I don't know, I don't think it's
gonna happen, but like he is one.
Speaker 3: Of the last like holdouts as far as big actors
than ever do.
Speaker 1: And I always I'm always curious that they're ever gonna
get him or Tom Cruise to do one of these
and you know, and again I could see this being
his role, but I think this type of character, Like
I'm not saying Walking's better actor than Phoenix. I'm just
saying that I feel like the strengths of this role
are more walking coded, you know, Like I just feel,
in my opinion, it's like with Leo have done.
Speaker 2: He said, you said Joaquin is a better actor than Phoenix.
Speaker 3: Oh. I I'm not trying to say Walkin is a
better actor than Leo.
Speaker 1: I think that's also an interesting conversation had because I
think I think I've I leaned towards Woking. But still
I think they've had many great roles over the years.
But I also don't know what Leo have done this
loss of fifty two towns and the body stuff.
Speaker 3: I really don't know. We're walking. He kind of gets
in that stuff.
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying, Listen, if they were to announced, hey,
Jim's Guns Universe, Leo's a joke, I'm like, hey, that's
it's gonna be fucking great.
Speaker 3: But I think it's like a different type of.
Speaker 2: Grace, like Scorsese is the director.
Speaker 1: Yeah they kick any with shety out, Yeah, they just
do this again. But again I think Leo like this
type of Arthur Refleck that they gave Walking. I don't
know if this would have been like up Leo's Ali
per se, right, So I think it all all worked
out for the best, so would.
Speaker 2: Have been lesser I think, but judge right, So what
if Sitnario exactly so?
Speaker 3: And then what you switch out? You get Walking And
here's the same thing.
Speaker 1: I may there's a version of that, but if you
were to put Walking once upon a Time in Hollywood,
I would also go, No, I think Leo's better there,
Like that's the thing where in that situation go no, Leah,
Leo is like he's a not Cliff but Rick Dalton
Like no, that, like you know, it's just type of roles.
Speaker 3: So I already went.
Speaker 1: I gave this ten back in twenty eighteen, given it again.
It's uh yeah, still love this movie after five years.
Excited for the sequel, and like I said, I hope
it's like at least like an a ten.
Speaker 3: I hope to enjoy it.
Speaker 1: I hope not to walk away bummed out. But either
way it won't affect this one. I don't think.
Speaker 2: For me, I am gonna remain with a solid ten
and ten on my feelings of this movie. Doesn't make
me feel great, doesn't mean the movie's not great, but yeah, no,
movies should strike some emotion, I think, uh and just yeah,
and this one hits multiple throughout and Joaquin's just stellar.
And I will say the score I appreciated a lot
more this second time around. I you know, if I
go through a movie and I don't, I don't necessarily
like pick out the score. I don't. I don't think
it's a bad thing, because I do think that it
should blend together with the overall just experience of everything
that's happening. But this time around, it just it stood
out a lot more. I think it ties back to
what I was saying, how like, this was a lot
more of a It wasn't a musical, but it felt
more musical. It just felt more of a musical than
maybe I was expecting it to be. So Yeah, no,
good good times, not good times. It's good movie, not
great times.
Speaker 3: Good times.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this film it holds up every step of the way.
I'm dropping the ten ten on it. It's fantastic. I
love this movie.
Speaker 5: It's great.
Speaker 4: It's something that I'm glad that we did the retro
for it and we watched it, and anticipation for the Filiadia,
especially because Yeah, there's definitely development with this character that
it's good to kind of be reminded of and just
to kind of re immerse yourself in this world and
what's going on. For example, it totally went over my
head when Lady Gaga or Harley Quinn did her like
her head gun thing, and then.
Speaker 5: That's obviously you guys talked about it with.
Speaker 4: Arthur Flex fake relationship girl doing that in the hallway.
So just I'm just excited to see how many different
little callbacks and little nods that they do. But yeah,
I think that this movie is wonderful. It's it's just
such a such an unexpected story that who would have
thought that they would have needed it something based on
The Joker. So I'm I'm definitely stoked to see the
sequel and I'm stoked to revisit this film and watch
it again in the future.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well there you go. Like they said, stay tuned
next week, we will be reviewing Joker. Fully I do.
Speaker 1: I think it's no matter what, going to be an
interesting review and I can't wait to get there.
Speaker 3: And I promise you it'll not be boring.
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye