Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to the Surely Can't Be Serious podcast,
discussing and debating the iconic and the forgotten of eighties
and nineties pop culture with your co hosts James D.
Graves and Jason Colvin.
Speaker 2: Hey, guys, welcome back for part two of the Bad
Versus Thriller Debate. Here is a quick recap of last
week's episode.
Speaker 3: I don't think we can follow that.
Speaker 2: We're here to do our podcast first episode. I'm super excited.
Speaker 3: Me too, Me too, Hey dude, I'm awesome. How I'm
doing well? So today we're going to talk about it.
Compare Michael Jackson's Thriller album versus Michael Jackson's Bad album.
That is actually a better album.
Speaker 2: There is no way that you can think that Bad
is better than Thriller.
Speaker 3: With lines like the funk of forty Years, how can
You Kill Rock? It was very nearly not Thriller. It
was almost called Starlight.
Speaker 2: I mean, it changed music history.
Speaker 3: It was a pop culture nuclear bomb.
Speaker 2: And it rocks. I mean, there's no question about it.
This is a rock song.
Speaker 3: The dog Gone Girl is Mine? Yeah, the dog on
Girl is Mine.
Speaker 2: Dude, that's the best part of the.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you've got the video, you've got Playboy Model, well, right, yes,
thank you, beautiful.
Speaker 3: I didn't know she wasn't Playboy though.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, it's Google's arch, no kidding. You've defined
the eighties.
Speaker 3: In four songs, that's right, in four songs. If that's
all you know about that, you've got a pretty good handle. Yeah,
and sounds good, sounds great, and then you get the Chipbucks.
The only thing I remember is Michael Jackson winning in
our wrestling contest.
Speaker 4: You know, those were good songs.
Speaker 2: I like those songs a lot, but especially I like
the new songs.
Speaker 3: Much anticipated, right, so maybe the most anticipated album of
all time?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean is that fair theoretically?
Speaker 4: Could?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean after Thriller? What I mean? What comes after Thriller?
The whole world wants to know?
Speaker 4: Right, right?
Speaker 1: What is it?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 5: Okay?
Speaker 2: It's kind of like what comes after Empire Strike back?
Well return, and that's what this.
Speaker 3: Is, well sort of you say, Star Wars and Empire
Strikes then we went.
Speaker 2: Off the wall is star Wars, thrillers and bad.
Speaker 4: As we turn.
Speaker 3: We'll get into this a little bit, okay, But anyway,
So the first single released I still haven't got a
good answer on this. The first single released from Bad
Yeah is I Just Can't Stop Loving You, which is
a great song, number one hit.
Speaker 2: No video, Yeah, well there is a video. It was
produced by Jefferson uh Starship and it's called Sarah because
it's the same song.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Okay, the same song. Well that's a
great song too, another number one hit.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: Well, it's really easy. Hey, the video has already been released.
We just changed the lyrics to this song and we
can just throw it on top.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, so let's go through. We want to
go track by track through this.
Speaker 2: Let's go for it, tract by track all right. So
the first one, the first track on the album is bad.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the title track moves from midway through the
album to top of the album. Yes, okay, what.
Speaker 3: Do you think.
Speaker 2: It's a great song.
Speaker 3: It's pop gold.
Speaker 2: It is it's it is pop gold. It is not
a paradigm shift. It is the it what Okay? Okay,
So here's what here's what I thought we already getting
into this, yes, because this is what this is about,
right okay, Okay, I mean, do you have bad things
to say about any of the songs of a thrilling No, okay,
then let's keep it okay. So okay, So I you
told me something really surprising and interesting about the song Bad,
and I had no idea. This is fantastic stuff.
Speaker 5: Go ahead, okay.
Speaker 3: So this is what I read that Quincy Jones actually
got Prince and Michael Jackson together, and Bad was originally
intended to be a duet, sort of a back and
forth you're but is mine right?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 2: That it becomes more uncomfortable like that, right.
Speaker 3: Go ahead, But it was supposed to be this sort
of I'm bad and you're not. Well, I'm bad and
you're not. And it's of this back and forth between
Prince and Michael Jackson, and so Quince Jones got him
at the table together. They sort of sat sort of
cross armed and skeptical of each other, is what It's
what he was talking about, because they were both so
intensely competitive against each other. So you had Thriller in
eighty two, eighty three, eighty four, Prince had Purple Rain,
and Purple Rain is a fantastic album. And so I mean,
you got two guys at the top of their game,
and Prince listened to the song Bad, and after listening
to it, he said, he said, this is a hit.
He goes, this is a hit without me. You don't
need me for this, and that's why Bad is not
a do it.
Speaker 2: And so now I'm gonna listen to Bad and think, Okay,
this is where Prince part Prince's part would be. Yeah,
it's good stuff. Yeah, but it is. It's an extended
dance version of beat It. It is. Bad is return
of the Jedi. We've we've we've done Empire, and Michael
Jackson's like, okay, we got Empire. Let's just go back
and let's take that and make it. Okay, let's add
on to it.
Speaker 3: Let's know, let's keep no, we'll we'll well, we'll put
the we'll put them on the scales. Yeah, once we're done,
and we'll keep going. All right, all right, So Bad,
we've established number one hit, hot, one hundred, awesome video,
cool in the subway system. You've got the whole You
ain't bad, you ain't nothing right right, get the Wesley snipes.
It's kind of stance off thing.
Speaker 2: And uh, just for the for our listening audience, my
friend just did a dance with his hands right then, dance.
Speaker 3: You have to have to dance.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: And then Wesley Snips decides I'm not gonna beat up
Michael Jackson because he dances so cool.
Speaker 4: So that's the way it goes down, right, Right.
Speaker 3: It's got a life of its own. It didn't shift
the paradigm because he had already done that, but it
had a major cultural impact pop culture.
Speaker 2: Okay, keep going.
Speaker 3: I mean if I just say, if I walk into
somebody on the street and I say I'm bad, they're
gonna know what I'm talking about. Yeah, And you also
get a sidebar, a little sidebar. You get the weird
al fat video from this which.
Speaker 4: Is yo, home boy, Well you've been looking fight you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we ain't seen you around Burger World lately, so
where you've been? Huh, genius.
Speaker 2: It's better.
Speaker 3: It's better, I mean better than bad or better than heat.
Speaker 2: Better than bad. No, it's better than bad because the
video is better than bad because he expands and becomes fat,
and it's amazing.
Speaker 3: It's it's gold in itself. Yeah, it is golden. And
the same guy who's rollers skating instead of pulling himself
up by his own collar, is skating like a three
year old, right, like barely barely skating and he pulls
off the vent that blows the walk the air at
him and he's got a pin wheel and you have
the chicken falls out of his jacket.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Anyway, so one parody, one weird ol parody per album.
Speaker 2: Right, both based both gold, both based on two he
didn't fat?
Speaker 3: Interesting?
Speaker 2: Interesting? Did you just make that connection?
Speaker 3: I guess so. All right, so bad right out of
the gate, number one hit, awesome video, pop gold.
Speaker 2: Right, and it is. I will say this, it pulls
pop back in like the pop albums of the time.
You've got George Michael and that's about it. The hair
bands were ruling the day.
Speaker 3: Hair bands were ruling the day, and.
Speaker 2: I think that Bad probably gave those pop listeners something
to attached to.
Speaker 3: It's probably fair.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3: Next song on the album, which is also the second single,
no third single, excuse me. Yeah, so I just get up.
I'm going to use the first single. Bad's the second single,
third single, second track listing, the Way you make Me
Feel You're knocked me not not right, number one hit,
pop gold, another.
Speaker 2: Video, and then there's the video.
Speaker 3: It gets a little grabby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I I don't know about you, but I
can very vividly remember like the point that he starts
doing those yells that iowa, what the heck? What is
is this? Like is weird? How going to pop out
here in just a second? What is he doing? And
it didn't stop, like it was just you know, all
his and it wasn't musical, it wasn't I was just
I was weird, this is really bizarre. Why is he
doing this?
Speaker 3: This is the first time I watched Michael Jackson video
where I thought, what the crevi is it? Let's get
this out of here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we agree there, yes, the primal yells should have.
Speaker 3: None, and I think, what would it get smashing on
the windshield or something there.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's this tough guy act.
Speaker 3: But it just doesn't and it's all out of place,
and it's humping the ground and it's remember the shum shoom,
shum shoom. They're all humping the ground. But the song
it's awkward. It is awkward, and it's very grabby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that kind of killed the song for me too.
I was just like I couldn't hear the song without
thinking about him doing those weird yells anymore.
Speaker 3: Well, I understand what you're saying. But the song is
still pop gold. Okay, all right, number one hit right,
pop goold number one okay do. Let's take a second
and do a shout out to some of our friends
in the podcast community.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, podcasters are so supportive of us, and we have
podcasts out there that we love and love to support. Today,
let's talk about Jet Thomason, who does the intro for
our show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Hello, everybody, Hello, everybody, the best voice in our show.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we give you great thanks for giving us that intro.
Jet and Jet has a podcast with his wife Chelsea
called Limos and Roses, a Bachelor Verse podcast that recaps
the show. That show is just coming back on again,
so they're about to start up again. If you are
a Bachelor fan, you need to be listening to that show.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Jed and Chelsea. We sure appreciate you, guys.
Speaker 5: Next song, speed Speaking.
Speaker 2: It's not a skipper, it's not a skipper.
Speaker 3: It's not a skipper.
Speaker 2: But it had already been done as what speed racer. Okay,
speed racer, I wanted maybe I can do this, Maybe
I can do this. Debo had put out a song
called speed Racer earlier and if you listen to speed
Racer and then this is the This is the one
that I thought of immediately upon re listening to speed
Demon was Bob Seeger's song from Beverly Hills cop to Shakedown. Yes,
they're the it's the same song. It's it's like and
those songs both came out before Bad did I. Once again,
I'm like, Michael Jackson is doing that Chipmunk thing where
he's like, hey, this is popular, now I'll just borrow
from that, and so he's stole this speed racer concept
from Bevo and pumped it up up a bit with
the style of music from Shakedown, and then you get
speed Okay. Have you seen the video for that, by
the way, Yes, I did not remember it clearly, but
it was. It's the one where like the people with
the weird heads spot Michael Jackson on a production setmy
man the money. I will say this, I will not
ever ever agree that Bad is a better album, but
they took it up a notch on their videos. Yeah,
definitely absolutely.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, so speed Demon, he wrote after getting
a speed ticket on the way to the album, quinc
Jones said, watch best song about it, So that's what
we get. It's not skipper. It was released as a video,
not a single, right. And actually the question is did
they really make the video or they just pluck it
out of the Moonwalker movie. I think they just plucked
it out of the Moonwalker movie.
Speaker 2: Probably, Yeah, well, I mean it's this big chase?
Speaker 4: Is that? What is?
Speaker 2: I didn't I don't think I ever saw the Moonwalker.
I don't think I saw it.
Speaker 3: I played the video game. Yeah, okay, next one after
a speed Demon.
Speaker 2: Liberian Girl, Liberian Girl?
Speaker 4: Yeah okay.
Speaker 3: So what do you think about the Library and Girl?
Speaker 2: Flat? Flat? It's flat? And you know who agrees with me?
Michael Jackson, really because he made a video where you
don't even really hear the song. It's all just and
this again, I think, goes to a rating scrap. You
gonna what do you want to watch? You want to
watch a bunch of movie stars all together. So let's
put all of these really famous movie stars in this
video and we're gonna let them talk and you're gonna
be able to hear what they say. And everybody's looking
for Michael Jackson.
Speaker 3: Where Michael Jackson there is?
Speaker 2: When's he gonna get here? We're all here for this video.
When's he gonna get here? And what's going on in
the background? Is the song like it's not even real,
not out front. You're right, it's not there because it's
not good enough to be there. It's not good enough
to make a video out of it. Is it's good
background music for a short film where everybody's waiting for
Michael to show up. It's kind of the where's good O,
where's Michael?
Speaker 3: Okay. So here's my take on my very It's not great.
It's not great. It's it's one of the weaker tracks
in the album. So for me, the song eh video
I think is cool, especially I mean as a eighties
time capsule. If you haven't ever seen this video, which
I hadn't until a few years ago, absolutely it is
a fantastic eighties time capsule.
Speaker 2: By the way, you get Bridget Nielsen in the video
as well. Yes, who was in Beverly Hills Coup too too,
which is where the songs.
Speaker 3: Coincidence came from.
Speaker 2: I think not.
Speaker 3: I think not so, but you get I mean who's
in that?
Speaker 4: You got?
Speaker 3: You got Danny Glover, Debbie Gibson, Yep, you get Jamal
Malcolm Warner, THEO from the Yeah from I Don't Know,
THEO from the Cosmic Show. You got Steven Spielberg. Not
a skipper, but not one of the stronger tracks.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 3: Then you go into this song called just Good Friends. Now,
Quincy Jones said he tried something and it didn't He
didn't think it worked out very well. But it's a
duet between Michael Jackson and Stevie Wonder.
Speaker 2: Okay, so literally can't even remember that.
Speaker 3: It's it's kind of funky, It's it sounds more like
a Stevie Wonder track.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 3: Still, I mean you got two icons.
Speaker 2: I mean I just listened to the album like two
days ago, and I still don't remember that song.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 3: If there is a skipper on the album, this is
the skipper. But it's still interesting that you've got Stevie
Wonder Michael Jackson on the same track. All right, Okay,
So but now.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because people will be willing to people fans
from both sources will buy albums. Right, that's true, You've
got more album sales.
Speaker 3: Well, he definitely wanted to sell the albums, that's for sure. Okay.
Now this is where we get into kind of the
meat of the lineup right here?
Speaker 4: All right, go ahead?
Speaker 3: Okay. So after just good Friends, you get a song
called Another Part of Me. Okay, but it's kind of
a funky song, kind of a dance song. Pretty big hit,
not quite in top ten. I like it eleven on
the hot tracks. Good Dancer, nothing innovative, but a nice
song to listen to. There you okay, gotcha and a hit,
a moderate hit. Okay, all right, here we go. Are
we ready for this?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Man, Maria, what do you think to meet?
Speaker 4: Kid?
Speaker 2: Preachy? Preachy? What the heck is?
Speaker 3: We are the world? I mean, you take we are
the world?
Speaker 2: And because they say we he starts off, He starts off,
and he says, I'm looking at the man in the mirror.
I'm asking him to make a change. Yes, no, message
could have been any clearer. Here it goes the switch.
If you want to make the world a better place,
take a look at yourself and you make a change. Yeah. No,
it could have been great if he'd kept it with I,
I and me, me and we are the world. Not
it became preachy. You're way off, basically, and he's not
only preaching, he's got a choir behind him.
Speaker 3: That sounds fantastic. This is the best song on either album.
Speaker 2: Oh no, this.
Speaker 3: Is the best song on either album. You it's not
my favorite, but it's the best one.
Speaker 2: Why what makes it the best one?
Speaker 3: Because it's because it has a message, an important message.
It has that key change with the choir is awesome
in the middle of it. It's more mature writing. You're
not buying it, and I'm buying it. I'm just I mean,
surely you can't be serious. I am serious, and don't
call me. This song is the best song on either album.
I'm sure people are gonna flip out on that, but
I just think it's a It's a more mature song.
It's number one hit. If I go up to anybody
on the street and I say I'm starting with the
Man in the Mirror, They're gonna know what I'm talking about.
It had pop culture impact.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was definitely a big hit and everybody
knows Man in the Mirror. Yes, And it's.
Speaker 3: The last part, that key change in the middle of
the song. Awesome, awesome. This song was written by I
think her name is Sila Garrett. I'm not sure I
pronounce her first name, but it's the same girl who
recorded I Just Can't Stop Loving You, which we'll get to,
the same person she wrote Man in the Mirror she
sang the duet with on the next track. Anyway, Also,
the Man in the Mirror video is probably well, I'm
not gonna say that it's one of my favorite videos
because Michael's not in it except for one brief moment,
and all it is is just sort of clips from
what was going on in the world at that moment.
And for some weird reason, when I see Baby Jessica
pull it out of that pipe, you're probably too.
Speaker 2: Young to remember, No, I totally remember. Okay, yeah, I
mean there's twelve I.
Speaker 3: Remember the whole world waiting on pins and needles, baby
Jessica down in this pipe, And when they show that
clip during the music video, I'm like, oh, man, Baby
Jessica got out of the pipe, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So anyway, I love the music video. I love the song.
Speaker 2: Best song on both albums.
Speaker 5: I think, so.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's absolute gold, and it's at
least in the conversation with beat it so well, and.
Speaker 2: I mean it's it is a song that's still getting
play and the way you make me feel is still
getting play, and Bad is still getting play. Liberian Girl
is not another part of me really isn't anymore. But
Man in the Mirror is something that you're still going to.
You're still hearing today.
Speaker 3: Okay, so number one hit, huge number one hit.
Speaker 2: Right next, I just can't stop loving you.
Speaker 3: Okay, what do you think?
Speaker 2: Why don't you tell me what you think? First?
Speaker 3: Well, catchy good song, number one hit. Originally supposed to
be a duet with Barbara Streisan, which is interesting. She
said no. So they asked Whitney Houston, which that could
have been interesting. So they settled on Sila Garrett, who
they called it was a proge of Quincy Jones. They called, said, hey,
come on up to the studio. We want you to
help us out on the song. When she shows up,
they said, oh, by the way, we're laying down track today.
You're singing, so, I mean, I just can't even imagine
showing up and all of a sudden boom, you're on
a number one single, right right, So first single off
of released off of Bad, the first number one hit,
and a string of five number one hits, which was
a record setter. We'll get into that more later, I think, Yep, Okay,
big song. I can get a lot of radio play
it today, but a number one song at the time.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, listen. I like the song. I like listening
to the song, Yes, but I also like air Supply. Yes,
it's fair and that's what it is. I mean, it's
another air supply song, it is. And it's so close
to Sarah by Jefferson Starship and those are all good songs.
But it's just like I'm just listening to again Alex Sarah.
Thriller gave us things we'd never heard before, and bad
gave us a bunch of stuff we'd already heard before,
even from Thriller.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but we love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get it, I get it. I get it
all right, Okay, next one.
Speaker 3: So the next one is Dirty Diana.
Speaker 2: You will not hear me say anything bad about Dirty
d Okay, star of two Stars on that album that's
starting ever War.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's fair because I was getting ready.
Speaker 2: To jump on you like there was no way. I
will not say anything bad about it. A great song
and great song, rockin' freaking' roll.
Speaker 3: Yes song, yeah really, and they had Steve Stevens from Billy.
Speaker 2: Idols band, Billy Idols band, that's right.
Speaker 3: And he plays the crazy guitar on that.
Speaker 2: And I had a great video where it's just him
and Michael along the stage tearing it up and wind
blowing and.
Speaker 3: It was at a man, it was it was right
until he Michael Jackson rips his shirt.
Speaker 2: I think he sold it. Okay, I think he sold it.
It's kind of like you. It's kind of like the
end of Jaws. You got it if you if you've
bought in for the full length of the movie, you're
in for the shirt rip. I think he sold it.
Speaker 3: Well. Great song, fantastic number one, another number one hit. Yeah,
part of that.
Speaker 2: Because it kicks awesome, ear gold, Yeah for the year. Yeah, okay. Next,
Smooth Criminal Star number two on the album.
Speaker 3: It's fantastic.
Speaker 2: I will not say anything bad about it. It is
freaking incredible. These those two songs. To me, I don't
think Dirty Diana necessarily was innovative in the way that
I was really hoping that the whole album was going
to be. But it kicks, but solid rock, solid rocket,
It's great. Yeah, Smooth Criminal, Smooth Criminal. Finally at you know,
the last part of the album gives me something that
I'm like, ah, here finally is something new and exciting.
This was something that I just thought, Okay, it's spot off.
It's really really good.
Speaker 3: Knocking out of the park without a doubt. Another number one. No,
actually this was not a number one hit, which is
crazy to me.
Speaker 2: It's crazy, but it's also crazy. The Thriller was only
number four.
Speaker 3: So number seven is the highest it got to on
the Hot one.
Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3: It doesn't make sense the video.
Speaker 2: Yeah, killer yep.
Speaker 3: Showed this to Ava the other day, you daughter, so
you get the anti gravity lean, which is kind of
a neat little trick, but she was a how's he doing?
That's the you know. And he does sort of this
sideways moonwalk while he's on stage, so you get a
little taste of sort of the robot slash moonwalk as
he's walking around doing these cool things and beating up
gangsters and actually blows a gangster away with a gun
in the middle. I was anyway, really awesome video. It
gets off track in the middle. I don't know if
you've seen the long version of this in a long time.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen it.
Speaker 3: Okay, so the long version of Smooth Criminal video you
get the music stops, boom, all the dancers are on
the floor. There's a whole lot of screaming and yelling.
So that weird the Way You Make Me Feel vibe
lots of moaning and groaning.
Speaker 2: I think that. I think that after the Way You
Make Me Feel, I always hesitant about all Michael Jackson videos,
and so I probably just stuck to the music on
that one.
Speaker 3: Well, but so just to cover that real quick, they
break into this weird moaning and groaning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, remember it now you brought that these yes, horrible
memories of because they're out on there shavers or something.
Speaker 3: So about the time you're willing to change the channel
thinking this is too weird for me. Michael Jackson is
really weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: He it snaps back into full on smooth criminal bus
right back into the middle of the song and he's
back to knocking it out of the party, right last.
Speaker 2: Track, leave Me Alone than cool song. Yeah, it's just repetitive.
I mean it's good, it's it's kind of the it's
the same thing that he had with the with the
Paul McCartney The Girl is Mind. They've got a good
chorus and catchy tune and it's repetitive. And then they
released a cool video over the elephant Man Skeleton's dancing
with video is.
Speaker 5: Kind of neat.
Speaker 2: It's kind of neat, isn't it. That's the one that
he's on the car like on the train car, like the.
Speaker 3: He's on the train car and you get you get
what is the chimp? What the bubbles bubbles thinking bubbles
is there? And you get the elephant man bones and
it's kind of poking fun at his life in the spotlight.
And cool song, good song, solid song. Yeah, cool video
didn't track or didn't chart.
Speaker 2: It didn't chart at all, really art Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 3: Not sure they released it as a single, but it
didn't chart.
Speaker 2: So now the question is, have my arguments against your
absurd position changed your mind?
Speaker 4: Coach?
Speaker 3: Well, why don't you state your position clearly first?
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 2: So my position is this, the release of Thriller was
a paradigm shift of music. They've got music that's so
sonic that it doesn't sound like other music before. Okay,
And they give us music that is unlike music we've
heard before. It's not I mean you if you can
go and find me stuff that people were doing before
Thriller including off the wall and say yeah, this is
all just the same thing. Then I'll concede. But what
you've got with Thriller is a game changer. The game changer.
It is Empire strikes Back, it is I Am your father.
Holy crap, what did I just listen to? That was incredible?
Everything has changed. And then had had Bad come out
two years later, it probably I probably would have liked
it better because it would have been it would have
been a more logical step and you're like, Okay, yeah,
this is this is just Thriller Part two, and it's great.
It's got all of those same kind of fun things
that Thriller had. But to come out five years later
and all you've got is a repeat of Thriller songs
in a new vein. I think he was just making
a money grab. I think he's just like, let's let's
I mean not money grab, but sales grap I mean,
obviously the man had more money than humanly anybody would
ever need. But he you know, he talked when he
when he was making Thriller, his big deal to talk together.
The guys were like, I want this to sell, you know,
a fifty million or eighty million hundred million is what
his goal was, one hundred million copies. He for Thriller.
He wants a hundred million in sales. He does, he
said at the time. So he comes out with bad.
He's got five years to change the game again, and
he doesn't do it. And he's still concentrating on those albums.
He's got one song, one song on that whole album
that I said, this is unlike anything I've ever heard
in that smooth criminal. But when you compare the entire album,
I mean, except for our two throwaway songs and Thriller,
that was that every single one. If you look at
want to be starting something, nobody else was doing that.
If you want to look at the girl as Mine,
well okay, let's skip that one if you will only
get Thriller. Obviously that wasn't That was amazing and totally
different than anybody had ever heard. Same with beat It,
same with Billy Jean, same with PYT. You've got an
album full of songs that nobody has ever heard anything
like it before, and then you get Thriller Part two.
Speaker 3: Yet Thriller Part two, you get Thriller Part two. I
think it's unfair to ask the guy to change the
world again.
Speaker 2: Though I'm not saying it's fair and that he should
have changed the world. I'm just saying you can't say
that Bad is better than Thriller.
Speaker 3: I'm saying Bad is better than Thriller. I'm not saying
it's a game changer like Thriller was because Thriller was
first to the table. I'm just saying, if you lay
them down side by side, if you go talk to
you know, we're familiar with his argument.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: You go find the guy in Africa who's never heard
Bad or Thriller. Yeah, and you play both for them
and you say which one you need to think is better.
He's like, ah, I think I like both, but this
one's a little stronger. That's my position on Bad. So
it is Thriller part two. But listen, here's why can
I say, all right, I think Bad is a stronger album. Okay,
you have to remove the nuclear blast that Thriller did
on pop culture. So I think you have to separate
that because there's no challenge. I mean, it's Thriller all
the way if you just say because you would, and
I remember, it changed, it changed MTV, it changed pop
cultor it changed radio. It changed everything. It was a
game changer, no doubt about it. I think Bad came
along and I think gave us Thriller Part two fair
but we had it's first album in history to have
five straight number one hits. Okay, first album in history
to do that. Let that zinc in for a second.
Thriller had two number one hits. Bad had five, right, Okay,
Bad had two skippers, two junk songs. Bad has zero
or one skipper. Okay, if they're baseball teams, this.
Speaker 4: Is how I did.
Speaker 3: Sure, Thriller's got you know, Babe Ruth and Joe Demagio
and Louke Garrig. But up and down the line up,
I think Bad is. So you take the five number ones,
you can't get any higher than those. You compare them
to thrillers too, you get stronger showing there, and I
just think the other songs that other songs are what stronger.
That's my opinion. Okay, you don't have to agree with me, No.
Speaker 2: I don't. I am serious, and don't call me shirt. Yeah, okay,
I I would say that even going back now and
just listening to each album, and you know, you never
know because we've had history with them I can't listen
to it listen to them with the naked ear. But
listening to the songs on Bad, I get three that
I'm like, yeah, Bad, Smooth Criminal or Diana. I'm enjoying myself.
I'm tapping my foot. I'm listening to these songs and
the rest of them, I'm like, oh yeah, I can't
remember this, and I remember that, you know, here's that
preachy song, okay, And listening to Thriller, oh man, it was.
It's it's just a symphony from the beginning at the end.
I mean, especially the thriller of the song, but the
album itself, the variation that it has from song to song,
the strength of the songs that it has, I still think,
even compared side by side, that there's no way that
you're gonna say bad better. I mean, okay, let me.
Let's going back to the Star Wars analogy. Yes, if
you saw Empire Strikes Back, yes, and you saw Return
of the Jedi, yes, and you could and you said,
here's both of them, which one's better? Well, you know what,
you're probably gonna say return of the Jedi because Return
of the Jedi did some stuff that wasn't even possible
when they did Empire Strikes Back. I mean the flying
through the forest and the scenes, the war scenes, even
with those goofy little ewoks, it was still amazing, amazing
stuff that they didn't really do an Empire strikes Back.
Empire strikes Back, they didn't really do anything technology that
was more impressive than they had done in Star Wars.
But Empire Strikes Back was a game changer, and that's
why it's the best movie. And Thriller was a game changer,
and that's why it's the best album.
Speaker 3: I think your Star Wars analogy is pretty good, but
I think that Thriller is Star Wars, which is game changer.
Star Wars was a game changer. True, that's true and
that but what impress strikes Back is widely regarded as
the best of the series, no question, because it's just
a little bit better now.
Speaker 2: It's because you find out that Darth Vader's look, we.
Speaker 5: Needn't get into that.
Speaker 3: We'll get into that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get in there.
Speaker 3: So anyway, all right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's it. So, I you know, with
this is an audience this is an audience participation thing.
And so at the time that you're finished listening to
us who want you to join us on social mid
give us your opinion, you know which can jump in
if you if you came into this it came into
this with an opinion and had that opinion change, We
definitely want to hear that. But I have a feeling
and you feel like thank either one of us gave
you some strong arguments behind your opinion and you're sticking
with it. Let's hear about that too.
Speaker 3: All right, everyone jump in on this. We've got it
on our social media page. We'd love to hear from you.
Tell us what you think. Am I crazy? Maybe I
am isd crazy? Is the old fashion? Is he thinking
about throller skating the ring and not comparing them side
by side? Then we want to hear that too. So
just for the record, I love.
Speaker 2: Thriller and just for the record, I love that. Okay,
thank you so much for your support of the Shirley
You Can't Be Serious podcast. Don't forget. We also love
to debate on social media as well, so be sure
to follow us at Shirley Podcast on Twitter, at Shirley
Podcast on Facebook, or email us at Shirleypodcast at gmail
dot com, and be sure to check out the surely
you Can't Be Serious podcast channel on YouTube, and as always,
please hit the subscribe button now so that you never
miss an episode of the shurly you Can't Be Serious podcast.
All music, images and the eclips are used for the
purposes of commentary and education in conjunction with the fair
Use agreement under the u S Copyright Law