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<v Speaker 1>So if you could just explain why you think you

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<v Speaker 1>should work here at wank Spangle Industries, that would be

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<v Speaker 1>That would be great.

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<v Speaker 2>I've seen the work that you've put out, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think I'd be a great asset to the tea.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that you can help bring some of

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<v Speaker 1>the core deliverables out into the light rather than sort

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<v Speaker 1>of floating around them and pulling from the back.

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<v Speaker 2>I think generally in my life and career, I usually

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<v Speaker 2>find that doubling down and hitting the KPIs is a

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<v Speaker 2>solid effort. Going into Q two, I think it's important

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<v Speaker 2>that we all not just pick off the low hanging fruit,

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<v Speaker 2>but really drive home, hit those KPIs, hit our goals,

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<v Speaker 2>and be strategic with our thinking.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'd like to circle back to something you mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>there which you mentioned Q two. So are you referring

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<v Speaker 1>to the calendar year Q two or referring to the

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<v Speaker 1>financial year Q two? Because which one of those are

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<v Speaker 1>referring to helps us define what your priorities are in

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<v Speaker 1>any decision making dynamic.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a numbers man. We're driven by the financials, We're

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<v Speaker 2>guided by the data, but we don't always fill it.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, numbers man, the numbers speak, sales. First sales

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<v Speaker 2>is the fire of any real business. I just want

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<v Speaker 2>to hit the ground running and get this thing done.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you're listening and you're wondering, what one of

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<v Speaker 1>those laptop jobs where you work in finance, marketing, sales

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<v Speaker 1>and you have to spend a lot of time making

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<v Speaker 1>graphs from spreadsheets, that's what it's like. Apparently, I think

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of people out there just doing that

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<v Speaker 1>full time.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe we should just put a pin in this and

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<v Speaker 2>you amy you the scrum master for this. You know

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<v Speaker 2>that's a job. That's a job you basically just sitting

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<v Speaker 2>in meetings that could have been emails and write words up.

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<v Speaker 1>I do know somebody who's got their LinkedIn title is

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<v Speaker 1>fuckwit Wrangler. Yeah, they're work in quite a senior industry

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<v Speaker 1>as well. They've got security clearance.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>So how are you, little callum? You're back from your advent,

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<v Speaker 1>I say, little callum, I think you're thirty eight now,

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<v Speaker 1>aren't you.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I'm exhausted generally. I think i'm mental age.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm about seventy four. Yeah, on a good day.

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<v Speaker 1>What's the red wine to caffeine ratio in your body?

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<v Speaker 1>Right now.

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<v Speaker 2>But you don't like that Wolf of Wall Street thing

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<v Speaker 2>where he says, like all these different drugs, the you know,

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<v Speaker 2>uppers and downers.

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<v Speaker 1>I love.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm slowly I'm working my way to the downers because

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<v Speaker 2>we're it's half seven at night and we're you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we're recording a podcast on a Tuesday. It's been a

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<v Speaker 2>long day. It's always a long day.

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<v Speaker 1>I think you make them long days. I think you

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<v Speaker 1>sort of lengthen out the days. You get at least

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eight hours work and activity out of any day.

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<v Speaker 2>So I got up this morning for regular morning, kids

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<v Speaker 2>to school, all that sort of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Your kids to the right school. You didn't just take

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<v Speaker 1>some kids to way school. Oh it's a good point.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't check. You just snatched some kids off the

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<v Speaker 1>high street and drop them off outside. Eaton.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I got my kids ready for the school that

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<v Speaker 2>they attend, which was good. Did all that electrician came

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<v Speaker 2>to the house. We ordered two new lampshades that match.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's been an absolute getting. So it comes for

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<v Speaker 2>insurance and we've got two lights over the kitchen island

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<v Speaker 2>and they were like, well, why are we replacing two?

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<v Speaker 2>It's because you can't have one blue one and one

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<v Speaker 2>orange one. Can you when there's two lights over that?

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't swear, but that was basically the conversation was like,

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<v Speaker 2>because they.

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<v Speaker 1>Are repair, sure, God, look at it, man.

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<v Speaker 2>One of them is broke. Why am I justifying this

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<v Speaker 2>to you? One of them is broke, the other one

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<v Speaker 2>is not broken. But you can't just replace one when

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<v Speaker 2>they are repair. That's like saying you've stained one of

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<v Speaker 2>your trouser legs, replace one of them and we'll cut

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<v Speaker 2>it in half and sew it together. It doesn't work,

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<v Speaker 2>you idiot. So we did that. So anyway, I was

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<v Speaker 2>busy fixing a toilet. Jesus, I just realized how terrible

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<v Speaker 2>it sounds. I was fixing a toilet. I was playing

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<v Speaker 2>amateur plumber. The man asked me how long I'd been

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<v Speaker 2>a plumber. I told him seven minutes. And shortly after,

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<v Speaker 2>while I was down unconnecting a flexi hose from the toilet,

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<v Speaker 2>he was busy smashing his head into the new light

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<v Speaker 2>lamp shade, which then shattered all over the kitchen floor.

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<v Speaker 2>So he had to go to next to get a

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<v Speaker 2>new light fitting, which they didn't do, and the other

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<v Speaker 2>light fitting that he was due to fit. Didn't work,

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<v Speaker 2>so he returned the whole lot. And that's pretty much

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<v Speaker 2>been the theme of the day.

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<v Speaker 1>This kitchen restoration of yours, which was all an insurance job.

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<v Speaker 1>Was that a leaky pipe?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Somewhere on plumbing that I didn't do, which is

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so grateful that it's plumbing I didn't do.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think you're ever allowed to say anything to

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<v Speaker 1>me ever again about the fact that I do all

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<v Speaker 1>my own work on the house and the cars and everything.

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<v Speaker 1>Because he's coming along to my point of view on

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<v Speaker 1>this that all trades are now mostly unreliable.

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<v Speaker 2>I reckon what is that law? Is it Parkinson's law,

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<v Speaker 2>the sort of eighty twenty rule.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a bit shaky on that one.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, wow, that was that was a good joke.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a good joke. I think twenty percent of trades

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<v Speaker 2>people that I've ever hired have been good, and the

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<v Speaker 2>rest have the rest. I think this is your one job,

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<v Speaker 2>and I could do it better than you. That's not

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<v Speaker 2>to say that I'm great at it. That's to say

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<v Speaker 2>that they're terrible at it. I've had I've had plumbers

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<v Speaker 2>do terrible things. I've had electricians I've had I've had

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<v Speaker 2>black smoke up walls, and you think, oh my god,

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<v Speaker 2>this is your job, this is what you're meant to

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<v Speaker 2>be good at. Like, yeah, yeah, it is a wonder

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<v Speaker 2>how people get on in life.

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<v Speaker 1>There is this parito prido prido principle, which is the

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<v Speaker 1>eighty twenty rules sort of of everything is caused by

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<v Speaker 1>twenty percent.

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<v Speaker 2>Parato's law, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, not my law or not the Piedo law, not

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<v Speaker 1>the parido law, or it's the parido parito parrito. This

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<v Speaker 1>is riveting content anyway, Burrito's law, Burrito's law, thank you,

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<v Speaker 1>Yes we have. I think you get that with trades

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<v Speaker 1>to a degree as well, where sort of twenty percent

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<v Speaker 1>of people who are good get most of the work

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<v Speaker 1>and the other eighty percent of the people you use

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<v Speaker 1>once or they only get contract jobs for insurance companies

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<v Speaker 1>or howarding authorities or things like that, where the work

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<v Speaker 1>just has to be done, it doesn't have to be done. Well.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I think I think I'm in I'm in

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<v Speaker 2>that category. So I've just hired I've just hired a

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<v Speaker 2>carpenter to come and fix the skirting that you could

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<v Speaker 2>probably call a cab from one side of the skirting

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<v Speaker 2>to the other, the gap is just enormous.

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<v Speaker 1>Was that the one, the one they tried to tell

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<v Speaker 1>you only came in length of one meter or something

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<v Speaker 1>like that.

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<v Speaker 2>I think he said that it did come in three minutes,

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<v Speaker 2>but they couldn't get it in the van, so they

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<v Speaker 2>picked And then they tried to tell me that you

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<v Speaker 2>have to get skirting that's made to measure, and then

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<v Speaker 2>we rung the kitchen company and the kitchen company said

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<v Speaker 2>that doesn't exist. So and then the building company told

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<v Speaker 2>me that this person was sent out to put it

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<v Speaker 2>right and that's the sort of thing they do every day.

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<v Speaker 2>Apart from he admitted that he'd never done it before

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<v Speaker 2>in his life. And he'd also still had the blade

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<v Speaker 2>on that was blunt from the last time he cut

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<v Speaker 2>the lengths, so that was interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and keen listeners may have noticed that there's only

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<v Speaker 1>two of us on this podcast. You haven't got the

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<v Speaker 1>sort of I don't really know how to describe his voice.

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<v Speaker 1>Read ready revert. Yeah, we haven't got Richard Nigas here

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<v Speaker 1>because it is the week of the by election, so

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<v Speaker 1>he is somewhere in the whatever. The rural version of

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<v Speaker 1>the reform Bonker is briefing some potentially going to be counselors,

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<v Speaker 1>and I know we normally do this sort of Oh

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<v Speaker 1>he's off, you know, judging rear of the year or something.

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<v Speaker 1>I think he actually is out briefing reform people tonight.

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<v Speaker 1>So in my head I'm picturing it like that scene

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<v Speaker 1>from Downfall that gets turned into a meme where it's

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<v Speaker 1>sort of Hitler and the generals shouting in put whatever

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<v Speaker 1>sub title is over it. If anybody in the in

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<v Speaker 1>the audience wants to make that meme for me, please

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<v Speaker 1>do and we will share it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that'd be good. What's what will be the peak

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<v Speaker 2>point that Hitler objects in the meme how much environmental

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<v Speaker 2>policy is going to cost them? Where he froze his

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<v Speaker 2>glasses down.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the Greens are taking over Cambridgeshire and that's sort

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<v Speaker 1>of it comes into the border of Suffolk and Norfolk,

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<v Speaker 1>just on the edge. Ah.

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<v Speaker 2>But anyway, I will say, what did I put? Education

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<v Speaker 2>is key. I might not be a man that is

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<v Speaker 2>pro reform, but anyone that's willing to educate themselves and

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<v Speaker 2>listen to someone as knowledgeable as Richard digis about the environment,

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<v Speaker 2>farming and all the things He does know quite a

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<v Speaker 2>lot about fair play. If you can get to the

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<v Speaker 2>you can get to a point where you're properly informed

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<v Speaker 2>by practitioners and people that are actually in the countryside

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<v Speaker 2>doing the things, then and fair enough, I'd vote negus.

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<v Speaker 1>And on the off chance that we do actually have

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<v Speaker 1>some counselors listening, I know we do have some politicians

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<v Speaker 1>who listen. But you've got you know, you're going to

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<v Speaker 1>be a new counselor or into a new seat, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>come after Thursday, which it sounds like quite a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people are going to be in that position of

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<v Speaker 1>local power for the first time, whichever party you're in,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're there for the first time, or even if

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<v Speaker 1>you're being re elected on your first day, Assume you

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<v Speaker 1>know nothing. Assume all of your core beliefs about how

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<v Speaker 1>the world works and how people will do things if

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<v Speaker 1>you give them this chance or take this away from them,

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<v Speaker 1>assume that's all wrong, and go and try and find

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<v Speaker 1>out as much information as you can to find out

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<v Speaker 1>what's actually happening on the ground for the people who

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<v Speaker 1>live in your area. Please God, go and do that.

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<v Speaker 2>Great.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a that's a pilarate political broadcast. On behalf

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<v Speaker 1>of the Please God, let it stop, parties, Just do something.

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<v Speaker 2>Fix a bloody road.

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<v Speaker 1>I just care about the roads at the moment. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't go anywhere. I mean if with my leg well,

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<v Speaker 1>I get chauffeur to places, I get driven around two places.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you need one of them, like scooters, them

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<v Speaker 2>little rude boy scooters, little bike snatches spike.

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<v Speaker 1>It has been suggested to me that I am eligible

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<v Speaker 1>for a blue badge, but I haven't done it yet yet.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that'd be a step too far.

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<v Speaker 2>My missus Nan has a blue badge, and she thinks

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<v Speaker 2>that it sort of gives her the right to park

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<v Speaker 2>basically anywhere. Not it's not restricted the disabled places. She

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<v Speaker 2>will think, no, just park out the front. I'm not sure.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure that's how I got a blue badge.

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<v Speaker 2>She just thinks that it's like it's like like when

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<v Speaker 2>cops commander a vehicle in a in a police thing.

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<v Speaker 2>She just thinks she can just do anything, just like

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<v Speaker 2>there's no rules because she's got the blue badge. Power mad.

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<v Speaker 1>In a brief moment of sensibility within this pretty odd

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<v Speaker 1>podcast episode, already something that has happened over what getting

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<v Speaker 1>on for six weeks by the time you've heard this,

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<v Speaker 1>since I couldn't get out of the way of a

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<v Speaker 1>tree quickly enough, I was already pretty sympathetic to those

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<v Speaker 1>with different physical needs and different ability to move around

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<v Speaker 1>the country and interacting with everything from pensions and DWP

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<v Speaker 1>and just going through the NHS system and stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 1>It is crap everything everything. There is so much friction

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<v Speaker 1>put there, even in the places that are meant to

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<v Speaker 1>be for people who should be getting help from the states,

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<v Speaker 1>from the government, from these things that we pay our

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<v Speaker 1>taxes to do. And I'm sure there are lots of

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<v Speaker 1>people listening who either in that position, or have been

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<v Speaker 1>in that position, or have family members in that position,

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<v Speaker 1>who know about the friction that I'm talking about. And

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<v Speaker 1>just like I think everyone should spend at least six

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<v Speaker 1>months in their in their sort of late teens early twenties,

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<v Speaker 1>working in a service industry where you have to be

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<v Speaker 1>on minimum wage, dealing with requests from the public, I

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<v Speaker 1>think everyone should spend at least two months being physically

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<v Speaker 1>differently abled, because it's a really interesting experience, and it

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<v Speaker 1>will if you weren't sympathetic before, bloody hell, you will

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<v Speaker 1>be afterwards.

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<v Speaker 2>So how are you going to enforce that sort of

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<v Speaker 2>with a mallet and a sledgehammer. Yeah, like misery, start

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<v Speaker 2>with all the people that owe you money first and

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<v Speaker 2>then can.

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<v Speaker 1>Not take too long. He's another one this month. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it said it's not a good time for small rural businesses.

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<v Speaker 1>It turns out I think April has been a bit

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<v Speaker 1>hard for quite a few people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I had a call today from somebody that essentially

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<v Speaker 2>said the same, so that I've not had a you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not been a busy start to the year, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, mate, we're in May. This is it's near

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<v Speaker 2>the years like most of the way in. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>have to say I have had a I have had

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<v Speaker 2>a busy one.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, you've been. You've been out doing things in the

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<v Speaker 1>public with people, haven't you.

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<v Speaker 2>I've done I've done so many things in the last

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<v Speaker 2>like six weeks since we did a when we went

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<v Speaker 2>to Avonmouth and had a wild adventure. Yes, we did

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<v Speaker 2>doing drone stuff. Well you did the drone stuff. Basically,

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<v Speaker 2>you did all the work. I just took a few

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<v Speaker 2>pretty pictures and then and then spent my life editing,

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<v Speaker 2>which is horrible. But the editing side of things that

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<v Speaker 2>takes so long to get all of that done, probably

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<v Speaker 2>done like four days on our thing. And then I've

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<v Speaker 2>done things with like uh, investor relations and making videos

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<v Speaker 2>for people raising money and stuff like that. And at

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<v Speaker 2>one point the the after effects templates that you provided

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<v Speaker 2>me with so lovingly had to be changed, and I

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<v Speaker 2>had to work out what an expression meant in Russian,

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<v Speaker 2>so I had to go into the little code template.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank god for AI. Because I went into the code

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<v Speaker 2>template using an alphabet that I'm not familiar with.

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<v Speaker 1>It goes the other way as well, and try.

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<v Speaker 2>And work out how to change these templates because I

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<v Speaker 2>did not have any time or the ability to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I've taken some jobs that are slightly out

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<v Speaker 2>of the comfort zone made the magic happen.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think, yeah, that's something for particularly your world

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<v Speaker 1>that doesn't get necessarily picked up on because you get

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<v Speaker 1>asked to do random media jobs, random marketing jobs. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's not just turning up with a camera and pointing

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<v Speaker 1>at and making the things look pretty. It's where it goes,

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<v Speaker 1>how it gets shown to the public, and even down

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<v Speaker 1>to creating taking video files and turning it into a

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<v Speaker 1>really sexy little adverse or an edit or something. There

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<v Speaker 1>are so many layers all the way down.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the key is where it goes, so that

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<v Speaker 2>they come up with an idea and then they take

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<v Speaker 2>it to places that, like you just don't know how

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<v Speaker 2>to do. It goes so far beyond what you're you

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<v Speaker 2>Suddenly you're like, ah, okay, you actually you need a

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<v Speaker 2>folly artist, someone that makes sound effects specifically for this thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Or ah, what you're looking for is you know, an

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<v Speaker 2>animator or a graphic designer or or something, and you

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00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:05.559
<v Speaker 2>can fudge your way through most things if you have

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<v Speaker 2>some level of competence. But yeah, it gets it's a

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00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:11.400
<v Speaker 2>bit crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and small business owners as well. This is turning

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00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:18.119
<v Speaker 1>into an episode of the Mullet. But small business owners

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00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:21.880
<v Speaker 1>often have because you're their media guy, you get asked

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00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:24.160
<v Speaker 1>to do everything. So it's a bit like being the

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00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:29.200
<v Speaker 1>sort of older teenage grandson of tech illiterate people who

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00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:31.799
<v Speaker 1>grew up during the war and you have to program

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00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:36.799
<v Speaker 1>the video for them. This the text, Yeah tech got.

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00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:38.359
<v Speaker 2>A camera, you can fix my printer.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the problem is you know how to fix a

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<v Speaker 1>printer though, don't you know?

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<v Speaker 2>That's really annoying that you do.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So we've got two things we said we were

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00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:51.160
<v Speaker 1>going to talk about in this episode. We were going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about first, your trip over to the very

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00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:57.960
<v Speaker 1>middle of England and I think it actually is the

319
00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:03.279
<v Speaker 1>very middle of England to do the National Gamekeeper's Organization

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00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:07.880
<v Speaker 1>and your general meeting and their awards ceremony evening which

321
00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:09.599
<v Speaker 1>was at lunchtime.

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00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:14.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and we had a jolly old adventure. It was

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00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:18.279
<v Speaker 2>actually tell us what we're going to talk about. Second,

324
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:20.319
<v Speaker 2>because it all becomes relevant.

325
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<v Speaker 1>So the second is you were attended, like I think

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00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:28.359
<v Speaker 1>about three quarters of the field sports world have now

327
00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:34.680
<v Speaker 1>the y Morelands Matter event up in Cutherston Moore with

328
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<v Speaker 1>Conservation Communication Emily Graham's organization.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so this is two things that you have great

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<v Speaker 2>experience doing that I have experienced for the first time

331
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<v Speaker 2>because you went last year. You did an excellent episode.

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<v Speaker 2>I intentionally didn't listen back to the episode just because

333
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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to try and keep it real fresh. And yeah,

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00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:06.880
<v Speaker 2>I think it would be quite interesting to compare our

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00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.359
<v Speaker 2>experiences against each other.

336
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:12.440
<v Speaker 1>So let's go for the gamekeepers one first. So I've

337
00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:15.079
<v Speaker 1>done the photos there for about four years now with

338
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:20.319
<v Speaker 1>Amy and that sort of evolved because the venue is

339
00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:24.440
<v Speaker 1>not an easy one for photography, is it. No, No,

340
00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:27.000
<v Speaker 1>it's explain the issue.

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00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:29.880
<v Speaker 2>Well. The best thing is I got your pasion. I

342
00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:35.160
<v Speaker 2>could see exactly what the what the horrible things were

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00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:38.519
<v Speaker 2>and how I might overcome them. Because if I had

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00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:40.480
<v Speaker 2>just been dropped in that, I would have been like,

345
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<v Speaker 2>oh my god, what's the issue. All the curtains everything's black,

346
00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:49.839
<v Speaker 2>So the curtains to black. The walls are black. Everything's black.

347
00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:55.640
<v Speaker 2>There's lights from above, and all the lights from above

348
00:20:55.839 --> 00:21:02.160
<v Speaker 2>are they're all scattered around, and they're all everyone's evenly lit.

349
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:07.599
<v Speaker 2>Not well, but they're evenly lit. So there's no dynamic

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<v Speaker 2>in any way, shape or form. It's all very flat.

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00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:15.920
<v Speaker 1>It'd be sort of perfect lighting for a cutting plant

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<v Speaker 1>handling meat where you wanted to make sure that you

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<v Speaker 1>could see the cut of the meat accurately, and you

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00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:24.920
<v Speaker 1>didn't have any shadows. Not for creative photography.

355
00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:29.359
<v Speaker 2>No, No, for making creative stuff, for making people look interesting,

356
00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:34.920
<v Speaker 2>it was not there. Also, everybody's wearing green and tweed.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you don't know who Jeff Garrett is, he's

358
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:47.640
<v Speaker 2>a man with a sort of a big.

359
00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.839
<v Speaker 1>Rushy mustache, weapons grade mustache.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a fantastic mustache and it's sort of.

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<v Speaker 1>Like, oh, was firstborn has arrived in shots? Hello, Hi,

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<v Speaker 1>hello small child? How are you? Have you been to

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<v Speaker 1>school today?

364
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:15.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

365
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<v Speaker 1>Did he take you to the correct school? Or did

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00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:18.920
<v Speaker 1>he take you to the wrong school?

367
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<v Speaker 2>Correct? Go every day to correct every days. We're just

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<v Speaker 2>talking about how to solve the crisis in the Middle East.

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<v Speaker 2>What's your thoughts?

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<v Speaker 1>I know, Welcome back to Britain's premiere rural podcast. So

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<v Speaker 1>Jeff Garrett and his weapons grave mustache?

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<v Speaker 2>Was there?

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<v Speaker 1>Was he on stage speaking?

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<v Speaker 2>He was not, but I was. I thought I saw

375
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<v Speaker 2>him about eight times and it just happened to be

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<v Speaker 2>another gamekeeper. It just looks like Jeff Garrett, I know

377
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<v Speaker 2>the one you mean as well? Yeah, that one, and

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00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:01.960
<v Speaker 2>then the other one, and then there's that other one,

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00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:04.559
<v Speaker 2>and then and then there's the other one that looks

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<v Speaker 2>just to say.

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<v Speaker 1>So, I think there's only about twelve different molds and

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<v Speaker 1>pattern types for gamekeepers.

383
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<v Speaker 2>If you play the game of Guess who and they

384
00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:22.079
<v Speaker 2>were all gamekeepers, you'd only have like, yeah, five baby,

385
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:24.240
<v Speaker 2>you'd say, is he got a a stash? And then

386
00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:28.079
<v Speaker 2>you'd be like yeah, and then you wouldn't put anything down,

387
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:33.640
<v Speaker 2>you wouldn't hear any.

388
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:34.960
<v Speaker 1>Does he have the features of a Mustarlid has a

389
00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:37.839
<v Speaker 1>really keen eye, and it looks like he's a bit vicious.

390
00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:42.720
<v Speaker 2>Does he look like he likes badgers? No?

391
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:45.359
<v Speaker 1>Click click.

392
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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

393
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<v Speaker 1>But did you enjoy being there? Because you were there

394
00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:54.599
<v Speaker 1>with basically the some of the finest gamekeepers in the

395
00:23:54.680 --> 00:23:57.119
<v Speaker 1>land and all of the people who are charged with

396
00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:00.200
<v Speaker 1>making sure that they still have a career, did you

397
00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:00.920
<v Speaker 1>find it interesting?

398
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:06.799
<v Speaker 2>Not only were they, the people there absolutely great and

399
00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:10.880
<v Speaker 2>the food they managed to put on an entire menu

400
00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:16.480
<v Speaker 2>of game, everything from Partridge pheasants in what was it,

401
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:21.279
<v Speaker 2>Mordor Conference Center, So like this is like outdoor, this

402
00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:28.119
<v Speaker 2>is catering in a regular a regular place, and they

403
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:31.599
<v Speaker 2>managed to put an entire menu of game on for

404
00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:36.839
<v Speaker 2>everyone as their lunch phenomenal. The food was excellent because

405
00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:40.119
<v Speaker 2>obviously they've got probably the best recipes out there. The

406
00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:45.240
<v Speaker 2>food was excellent, and I've just when they said lunch

407
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:48.519
<v Speaker 2>is going to be served, I was fully expecting the

408
00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:52.400
<v Speaker 2>standard fare that you would get at any conference center

409
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:56.000
<v Speaker 2>and it was all game. So a fair play to

410
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:58.759
<v Speaker 2>them for being able to pull that off. That was

411
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:01.799
<v Speaker 2>a stroke of genius. But right, that was a diversion

412
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:07.359
<v Speaker 2>the people that the people are the gamekeepers, but we

413
00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:11.960
<v Speaker 2>all know that they're all boots on the ground conservationists

414
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:16.160
<v Speaker 2>and they I don't think no one stays in it

415
00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:20.119
<v Speaker 2>for the money. No one stays in it for much

416
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:24.039
<v Speaker 2>other than they are just keepers of the land. They

417
00:25:24.039 --> 00:25:27.920
<v Speaker 2>are the people that try and make sure that the

418
00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:31.440
<v Speaker 2>habitat is good for nature, and that's what they love

419
00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:34.799
<v Speaker 2>doing as much as as much as the shooting, or

420
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:40.599
<v Speaker 2>if not more so being without. Those people really interesting

421
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:43.920
<v Speaker 2>and the talks that were given were also quite interesting.

422
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:52.440
<v Speaker 2>You had a GWC guy, a GWCT guy. What was

423
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:54.079
<v Speaker 2>his name, doctor.

424
00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:55.880
<v Speaker 1>Denny.

425
00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:01.000
<v Speaker 2>I should Simon Denny. Simon Denny, that's the one as

426
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:04.359
<v Speaker 2>in the Denny Report. What's the Denny Report.

427
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:11.039
<v Speaker 1>Denny Report was a fantastic report into the basically morelands

428
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:14.079
<v Speaker 1>and keeper morelands and all sorts of factors from the

429
00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:18.440
<v Speaker 1>conservation outcomes through to the economy through to wildfire management.

430
00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:22.640
<v Speaker 1>And it's a it's a very carefully put together piece

431
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:27.640
<v Speaker 1>that shows the value of gamekeepers in managed upland environments.

432
00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:31.440
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm, I think we should we should get him on.

433
00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:34.640
<v Speaker 2>There was some seriously interesting factoids and one of them.

434
00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:38.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know if this is true, all right,

435
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:40.200
<v Speaker 2>if I heard it right.

436
00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:44.279
<v Speaker 1>So let's frame frame it. Not that Simon Denny stood

437
00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:46.319
<v Speaker 1>up there and lied, but whether you were paying attention.

438
00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:51.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean, both of those are possibly true. And I'm

439
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:56.160
<v Speaker 2>not sure you can possibly do me for libel for saying.

440
00:26:55.880 --> 00:26:59.960
<v Speaker 1>That that's that guest opportunity gone. Okay, carry on.

441
00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:03.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty sure I heard that R. A. F. Hontington

442
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:09.160
<v Speaker 2>in Suffolk had like a massive amount of nesting curlws

443
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:14.240
<v Speaker 2>in and it's unmanaged land, like they don't do anything

444
00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:18.640
<v Speaker 2>on it. Oh, it might not be true, but I

445
00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:24.680
<v Speaker 2>thought it was Waddington. I thought it was Hontington. So

446
00:27:24.759 --> 00:27:30.079
<v Speaker 2>another another interesting thing was the Country Food Trust. Do

447
00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:31.799
<v Speaker 2>you know about the Country Food Trust?

448
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:34.319
<v Speaker 1>I do know about the Country Food Trust, but tell

449
00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:36.880
<v Speaker 1>the listeners about the Country Food Trust.

450
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:42.599
<v Speaker 2>The Country Food Trust is some some this might not

451
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:50.359
<v Speaker 2>be trust. Vibe Cody, this is like Vibe podcasting. We're

452
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:52.119
<v Speaker 2>just we're just trying to.

453
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:54.400
<v Speaker 1>Get through your head and you're not sure if it's

454
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:57.440
<v Speaker 1>a memory or if it's an imagination. Though, aren't you

455
00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:00.799
<v Speaker 1>pretty much talk about the True Food Trust?

456
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:04.519
<v Speaker 2>So the Country Food Trust is paying people like twenty

457
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:10.519
<v Speaker 2>quid for a munth jack, so the price is extremely good.

458
00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:15.559
<v Speaker 2>They've got people that believe in They've managed to rally

459
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:20.119
<v Speaker 2>together people that believe in the Country Food Trust and

460
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:28.279
<v Speaker 2>specifically what's her name, SJ. SJ. Hunt. Yeah, I'm going

461
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:31.559
<v Speaker 2>to say that that might not be true, but I

462
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:36.559
<v Speaker 2>think it's No, it's s J. Hunt. So people believe

463
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:40.680
<v Speaker 2>in her. And the idea is she gets deer stalkers

464
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:44.319
<v Speaker 2>to go out take as many as they can and

465
00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:53.119
<v Speaker 2>then makes them into meals to feed people that are

466
00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:57.160
<v Speaker 2>just in need of a good protein rich meal and

467
00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:03.720
<v Speaker 2>it's delicious. So at some point she's even making them

468
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:07.680
<v Speaker 2>as like ready meals that you can just add water

469
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:10.240
<v Speaker 2>too and stuff like that, and they're being shipped out

470
00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:15.319
<v Speaker 2>to frontline, but they're also being made for people, you know,

471
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:18.559
<v Speaker 2>instead of if you go to a food bank, it's

472
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:20.680
<v Speaker 2>most of the food that gets left at food bank

473
00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:27.559
<v Speaker 2>it's just processed rubbish. So actually having lean, good protein

474
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:31.839
<v Speaker 2>for people that need that are in food poverty is

475
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:34.599
<v Speaker 2>a really important thing. And if you can take a

476
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:38.240
<v Speaker 2>deer that is something that was going to be a

477
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:42.240
<v Speaker 2>net positive for the environment and then turn it into

478
00:29:43.160 --> 00:29:49.200
<v Speaker 2>protein that people need it's solving such a good problem.

479
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:55.480
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like it's the sort of philanthropy that more

480
00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:56.480
<v Speaker 2>people should be doing.

481
00:29:57.519 --> 00:30:00.759
<v Speaker 1>They are a fantastic organization. So they've been on my

482
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:04.079
<v Speaker 1>hit list for as guests for quite a while. But

483
00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:07.079
<v Speaker 1>often they are quite busy because they're doing a hell

484
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:08.599
<v Speaker 1>of a lot all the way through the year. But

485
00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:14.200
<v Speaker 1>they're a they're not a shooting organization. They're not a

486
00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:19.960
<v Speaker 1>shooting business. They are a food poverty charity. And they,

487
00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:23.279
<v Speaker 1>as you say, they take game, whether it's the feathered

488
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:25.680
<v Speaker 1>or the third variety, but it's the it's either the

489
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.400
<v Speaker 1>byproduct of land management or the by product of commercial

490
00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:31.400
<v Speaker 1>shoots or even non commercial shoots. But it's a way

491
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:34.480
<v Speaker 1>just like you know, our friend Hugo Campbell Hill does

492
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:38.279
<v Speaker 1>with his business, or Leon Challis Davis, who is our

493
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:41.519
<v Speaker 1>first guest, was talking about well over a year ago,

494
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:44.599
<v Speaker 1>getting it into the food chain. But the way that

495
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:47.000
<v Speaker 1>the Country Food Trust to it is they take it

496
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:51.519
<v Speaker 1>via food banks. And one of the you mentioned that

497
00:30:51.559 --> 00:30:55.720
<v Speaker 1>the meal pouch things they do fun. Yes, they are

498
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:56.759
<v Speaker 1>like ready meal packs.

499
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:01.000
<v Speaker 2>They do venison bolinnaise that's in like a full foil

500
00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:04.680
<v Speaker 2>pack and apparently they get reheated by people on the

501
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:08.359
<v Speaker 2>front line of Ukraine and stuff like that. It's fantastic.

502
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:10.599
<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of the stuff, the way they

503
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:13.640
<v Speaker 1>prepare it means that it has a year shelf life,

504
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:15.759
<v Speaker 1>which is another problem for food banks. It's can you

505
00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:18.079
<v Speaker 1>you can get food in, but can you get it

506
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:21.000
<v Speaker 1>to people while it's still saleable and they're healthy.

507
00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:23.839
<v Speaker 2>Well, they said the refrigeration for food banks was a

508
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:24.720
<v Speaker 2>massive problem.

509
00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:27.119
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, yeah, so these are shelf stable, aren't they.

510
00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:30.680
<v Speaker 1>They're just they don't need Yeah, they don't need refrigeration,

511
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:31.920
<v Speaker 1>so you haven't got that cost.

512
00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:36.119
<v Speaker 2>And obviously that's that's the venison and like you said,

513
00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:40.480
<v Speaker 2>the feathered as well. So they're working with they're coming

514
00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:44.200
<v Speaker 2>out with all sorts of ideas. They're innovating, truly innovating

515
00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:46.720
<v Speaker 2>in the space, and they're trying to do things where

516
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:53.200
<v Speaker 2>they're putting like carts in refrigerated carts so people can

517
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:56.759
<v Speaker 2>drop off peasants and partridges and things like that. I

518
00:31:56.759 --> 00:32:00.680
<v Speaker 2>think there's a slight cost to the to the shoot,

519
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:05.359
<v Speaker 2>but that is what they're doing. Like, if people haven't

520
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:09.799
<v Speaker 2>gotten outlet for their game, I mean, what better way

521
00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:13.680
<v Speaker 2>than to give it to charities and people in need,

522
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:17.400
<v Speaker 2>and there was actually statistics about how people were actually

523
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:21.160
<v Speaker 2>protein deficient in There was certain people that were protein

524
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:24.440
<v Speaker 2>deficient in the UK, and we should not be having that,

525
00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:24.960
<v Speaker 2>should we.

526
00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:29.240
<v Speaker 1>There's the cheapest calories to access sometimes the ones that

527
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:33.480
<v Speaker 1>are worse for you, and getting getting protein, getting good

528
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:36.720
<v Speaker 1>lean protein is very expensive if you have to buy

529
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:39.039
<v Speaker 1>it over the counter, but there are I meanwhile, there

530
00:32:39.079 --> 00:32:41.839
<v Speaker 1>are there is food going to waste in other blazers.

531
00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:44.680
<v Speaker 1>So bringing anything that brings the two together, it's fantastic.

532
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:47.279
<v Speaker 1>And they also do the big Homeless Center packs. I

533
00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:50.640
<v Speaker 1>think they do like a two ki low foil wrapped

534
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.799
<v Speaker 1>things so you can then do bulk meals for people

535
00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:55.000
<v Speaker 1>as well, so I know they work with a lot

536
00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:56.119
<v Speaker 1>of homeless charities.

537
00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:02.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's it's an incredible, incredible thing.

538
00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:06.240
<v Speaker 1>Yep, So future guests there for the Country Food Trust.

539
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:09.720
<v Speaker 1>Anything else that stood out from the gamekeepers apart from

540
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:15.799
<v Speaker 1>the mustaches and maybe something about curing, it's.

541
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:19.000
<v Speaker 2>Just how rowdy they were after that. They're all drinking

542
00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:24.319
<v Speaker 2>Jaeger barbs and skittle bombs and yeah, it just that

543
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:26.440
<v Speaker 2>did not happen. They all just went home in the

544
00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:29.160
<v Speaker 2>in their four y fours in their pickup trucks and

545
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:30.839
<v Speaker 2>had a really good time.

546
00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:33.440
<v Speaker 1>Is it the most tweed you've ever seen at an

547
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:34.599
<v Speaker 1>awards ceremony?

548
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:36.240
<v Speaker 2>I was quite a lot of tweed. I was hoping

549
00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:38.759
<v Speaker 2>there wouldn't be lit candors, just in case, because it

550
00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:42.039
<v Speaker 2>could have all gone up, and what with everything being

551
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:45.720
<v Speaker 2>curtains and tweed, could have been a real fire hazard.

552
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:47.720
<v Speaker 1>I think tweeds fireproof.

553
00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:50.599
<v Speaker 2>And do you know how I got paid? It just

554
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:53.960
<v Speaker 2>gave me a handful of fifties and shook my hand

555
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:56.039
<v Speaker 2>all of them. It's great.

556
00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:59.359
<v Speaker 1>Did just stand so awkwardly at one side with a

557
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:03.720
<v Speaker 1>beaming grin on your face? They are lined up? Yeah.

558
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:05.400
<v Speaker 2>I took a brace hope.

559
00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:10.159
<v Speaker 1>To get paid for the first year, the first year

560
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:11.679
<v Speaker 1>when I did it, because they weren't sort of sure

561
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:15.360
<v Speaker 1>how much you were paying me. I won't mention who

562
00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:18.760
<v Speaker 1>he is, but he's still in that position. He went,

563
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:20.760
<v Speaker 1>hang on, I've got some stuff in my pocket. Here.

564
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:22.880
<v Speaker 1>He just gave me whatever was in my pocket and

565
00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:25.440
<v Speaker 1>the better jackets, and that was it. So it was.

566
00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:33.800
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't too far off. Brace. Some link nearly gave

567
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:35.559
<v Speaker 1>me his train tickets. Oh I need that to get

568
00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:41.599
<v Speaker 1>back home. So the very day after you went all

569
00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:43.840
<v Speaker 1>the way north. It's not the long the furthest North

570
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:47.440
<v Speaker 1>you've been in a long time in Scotland, don't you.

571
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:52.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean I went cold Stream last year, but

572
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:56.960
<v Speaker 2>I haven't and then I went York at Christmas. But yeah,

573
00:34:57.000 --> 00:34:59.280
<v Speaker 2>I think that's probably the furthest North in a in

574
00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:01.000
<v Speaker 2>a long while, the.

575
00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:06.519
<v Speaker 1>Further north than York for a Newcastle Newcastle latitude, don't you.

576
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:12.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's quite a bit. Yeah, yeah, not quite, not

577
00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:13.719
<v Speaker 2>quite Scotland.

578
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:18.719
<v Speaker 1>But it's so want to get So this is the

579
00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:22.400
<v Speaker 1>why Morlands Matter events. So last year we went amy

580
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:24.679
<v Speaker 1>and I went to one. There was the first one

581
00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:26.480
<v Speaker 1>we invited to, and then I was asked back to

582
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:31.639
<v Speaker 1>go to a super special one which was down at Archegarftel,

583
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:34.000
<v Speaker 1>which was the one that DEFRA were going to be at,

584
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:35.760
<v Speaker 1>which I sort of alluded to last year, but it's

585
00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:39.280
<v Speaker 1>been so long now I can talk about it and

586
00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:43.800
<v Speaker 1>sort of that was the end of my involvement with them,

587
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:46.760
<v Speaker 1>but I know they were trying to formalize the organization,

588
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:48.599
<v Speaker 1>so it was it conservation Communication.

589
00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:54.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so that's the that's their brand, I suppose.

590
00:35:55.239 --> 00:35:57.719
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think that there there are social enterprises. Now

591
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:01.360
<v Speaker 1>there are a community interest company. So it's I think

592
00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:04.519
<v Speaker 1>it's Emily Graham in charge of it now, right, yeah.

593
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:08.079
<v Speaker 2>So, but Emily Graham was was heading up a lot

594
00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:12.760
<v Speaker 2>of it, and so was Tarquin Millington Drake are.

595
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:14.239
<v Speaker 1>The human what three words? Yes?

596
00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:20.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? You actually it's actually a porterloo just outside of Scumthorpe.

597
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:22.920
<v Speaker 2>If you put that into if you put that into

598
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:31.559
<v Speaker 2>what h No, I did it. It was so hard

599
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:33.519
<v Speaker 2>for me to get there. I actually had to ask

600
00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:40.079
<v Speaker 2>for what three words? And the the the drive in,

601
00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:45.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I've ever seen quite so much wildlife

602
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:48.840
<v Speaker 2>on a road in my life. I had to stop

603
00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:52.880
<v Speaker 2>at once with a live It was just roadkill, that's

604
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:55.840
<v Speaker 2>the funny thing. So I drove in and there's a

605
00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:59.079
<v Speaker 2>black grouse in the road straight away and they're not

606
00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:02.440
<v Speaker 2>very common, so I scared one of those up, which

607
00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:04.639
<v Speaker 2>I was like, cool, chick that off the list. I

608
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:05.920
<v Speaker 2>could probably turn around and go up.

609
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:09.840
<v Speaker 1>Now you jumping out of jumping out of the hour

610
00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:12.199
<v Speaker 1>really got kicking a black grouse out of the road

611
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:13.039
<v Speaker 1>and getting back in.

612
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, No, what I did do is I got a

613
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:19.360
<v Speaker 2>bit further on and I was late, obviously because that's

614
00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:25.280
<v Speaker 2>what I do. Yeah, I'm it's on Brown. I left.

615
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:28.840
<v Speaker 2>I left with like an hour extra and I got

616
00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:31.360
<v Speaker 2>to where was we I was on the phone to you,

617
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:34.760
<v Speaker 2>weren't I, and you said, every single road is is

618
00:37:34.840 --> 00:37:36.960
<v Speaker 2>currently Yeah.

619
00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:39.760
<v Speaker 1>I was like an overwatch look on Google Maps, at

620
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:42.000
<v Speaker 1>your traffic, at your traffic ahead of you going, you

621
00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:44.079
<v Speaker 1>may as well just sort of pull over and give up. Now.

622
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I went to Greg's and got a

623
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:51.079
<v Speaker 2>flat white. Yeah, it was about an hour. It was

624
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:54.239
<v Speaker 2>about an hour extra on top so everyone by the

625
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:56.679
<v Speaker 2>time I got there, everyone was already digging into lunch

626
00:37:56.679 --> 00:38:00.199
<v Speaker 2>and I was sort of like, oh, embarrassingly, but yeah,

627
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:05.320
<v Speaker 2>soz so I put up. And then there's just two

628
00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:09.159
<v Speaker 2>mallards and they just abandoned their last chick in the

629
00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:12.320
<v Speaker 2>middle of the road, so I had to I had

630
00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:17.480
<v Speaker 2>to stop. I thought they're just awful parents. I had

631
00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:20.800
<v Speaker 2>to stop and then pick this little chick up because

632
00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:23.000
<v Speaker 2>I thought it's going to get nabbed. In like two seconds.

633
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:24.320
<v Speaker 2>I had to pick it up and then put it

634
00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:26.960
<v Speaker 2>on the right side of the wall for the where

635
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:29.719
<v Speaker 2>the mallards were, and it was no way it could

636
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:31.559
<v Speaker 2>get out. I don't know how it was stuck on

637
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:33.880
<v Speaker 2>the road as well. I'm not sure what they what

638
00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:36.440
<v Speaker 2>they've done to it, but yeah, so I had to

639
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:39.119
<v Speaker 2>save a mallard. And then eventually I got to the

640
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:44.039
<v Speaker 2>thing and I'd seen I'd seen a countless curlyw I'd

641
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:48.480
<v Speaker 2>seen a black grouse, I see ducks, lap wings, everything,

642
00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:51.320
<v Speaker 2>And that was in the middle of the day, so

643
00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:57.679
<v Speaker 2>not a known time for wildlife and birds. And then yeah,

644
00:38:57.800 --> 00:38:59.880
<v Speaker 2>what a place. What an incredible place?

645
00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:03.119
<v Speaker 1>Because it's to describe the scene, because I think when

646
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:04.480
<v Speaker 1>I went last year, we sort of weren't meant to

647
00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:08.360
<v Speaker 1>talk about where it was, but it's now Viscount Ridley

648
00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:12.400
<v Speaker 1>has won an award for Cotherston More. I think you

649
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:14.760
<v Speaker 1>could probably started talking about which one it is. But

650
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:17.400
<v Speaker 1>you're driving along sort of a dead end road which

651
00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:19.400
<v Speaker 1>has got a couple of farms off to one side,

652
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:21.480
<v Speaker 1>but sort of on this crest of a hill above

653
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:24.599
<v Speaker 1>a reservoir with just views out across all this moorland,

654
00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:26.880
<v Speaker 1>aren't you, And then you end up at this very

655
00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:31.000
<v Speaker 1>nice grouse lodge part way along the shore of the reservoir. Yeah,

656
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:33.920
<v Speaker 1>you get sort of ushered in for it was quite

657
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:35.800
<v Speaker 1>a nice meal, isn't it. You sort of start off

658
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:38.400
<v Speaker 1>with some with some fantastic dining.

659
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:45.280
<v Speaker 2>I had a very generous red wine lasagna and there

660
00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:49.480
<v Speaker 2>was plenty of red wine in it. It was so good,

661
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:52.199
<v Speaker 2>so good. I was like, I was easy to get

662
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:55.079
<v Speaker 2>just thinking the richness of this is unreal. That is, like,

663
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:58.119
<v Speaker 2>there's enough to get about ten people drunk in there

664
00:39:58.159 --> 00:40:05.519
<v Speaker 2>and it was brilliant. Yeah, great food. And then I

665
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:09.239
<v Speaker 2>didn't really know what to expect, but you get you

666
00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:15.920
<v Speaker 2>get hit with a massive question and an introduction, so

667
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:19.519
<v Speaker 2>it's not like an icebreaker, it's like, introduce yourself and also,

668
00:40:20.119 --> 00:40:22.159
<v Speaker 2>please tell us how you solve the crisis in the

669
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:28.119
<v Speaker 2>Middle East. Go. So the question that was asked as

670
00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:32.400
<v Speaker 2>a kind of it was about five questions in one.

671
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:38.760
<v Speaker 2>It's basically, how do you get the message of shooting, conservation,

672
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:47.000
<v Speaker 2>habitat loss and everything in between? And how do you

673
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:50.000
<v Speaker 2>get the people on one side and the other to

674
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:56.679
<v Speaker 2>engage with each other for the benefit of nature and wildlife?

675
00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:02.039
<v Speaker 2>And I think the left filled point is also and

676
00:41:02.119 --> 00:41:07.239
<v Speaker 2>for shooting. It's not the primary focus, but it's quite

677
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:13.880
<v Speaker 2>clear it is is pro shooting while also being definitely

678
00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:20.159
<v Speaker 2>pro nature. So it's yeah, it's clear that they want

679
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:24.239
<v Speaker 2>the grosse shooting to continue, but it's also about how

680
00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:31.119
<v Speaker 2>to show the positive work that the gamekeepers, the people

681
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:35.519
<v Speaker 2>that manage the land, and how that all works together,

682
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:39.599
<v Speaker 2>so it's not just an us and them. The objective

683
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:43.079
<v Speaker 2>is to make sure it's not us and them.

684
00:41:43.400 --> 00:41:46.639
<v Speaker 1>So it's because I think part of the point of

685
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:49.800
<v Speaker 1>the whole thing is that you're looking at a landscape

686
00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:54.880
<v Speaker 1>that exists because of the management of it. So there

687
00:41:54.920 --> 00:41:59.840
<v Speaker 1>are two full time keepers, three full time keepers on

688
00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:04.039
<v Speaker 1>the moorland, plus all the associated things with that. You know,

689
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:05.960
<v Speaker 1>they need someone to live, so they've got houses that

690
00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:09.719
<v Speaker 1>they get, vehicles, all the costs of doing that, so

691
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:13.400
<v Speaker 1>there are there's quite a significant cost to managing that

692
00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:16.519
<v Speaker 1>much land, and particularly upland, which means you can only

693
00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:17.679
<v Speaker 1>sort of drive to the edge of it and you

694
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:23.360
<v Speaker 1>have to walk into anywhere. That whole thing makes a loss.

695
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:27.000
<v Speaker 1>It makes a financial loss every year, even with running

696
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:30.719
<v Speaker 1>a commercial grouse shoot. So the grouse shooting is the

697
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:35.000
<v Speaker 1>funding model for the work that carries on all the

698
00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:36.880
<v Speaker 1>way through year. And because of red grouse are a

699
00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:40.480
<v Speaker 1>wild species, they're not like most commercial shoots are in

700
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:44.239
<v Speaker 1>the lowlands, so you're not released, you're not releasing reared

701
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:46.920
<v Speaker 1>birds like pheasant and partridge and things like that. You're

702
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:50.480
<v Speaker 1>the red grouse are living there. They are living there

703
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:53.159
<v Speaker 1>all year round, and what you have to do in

704
00:42:53.239 --> 00:42:57.159
<v Speaker 1>order to have a shoot there is create or maintain

705
00:42:57.239 --> 00:43:00.559
<v Speaker 1>the right conditions for them. So low numbers of predators,

706
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:05.840
<v Speaker 1>including foxes, mustarlids, things like that, good habitat for them,

707
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:09.840
<v Speaker 1>good food sources, good water sources, and space because they

708
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:15.079
<v Speaker 1>need a lot of space. So you're sort of farming

709
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:18.480
<v Speaker 1>grouse but without putting any extra grouse on the ground.

710
00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:24.880
<v Speaker 1>But the second order effect of doing that is you've

711
00:43:24.920 --> 00:43:27.719
<v Speaker 1>got all these other species that also need those conditions

712
00:43:27.800 --> 00:43:33.159
<v Speaker 1>to survive, like lap wing, curly red shanks, stuff like that.

713
00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:35.480
<v Speaker 1>So all these other things that would very much like

714
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:37.960
<v Speaker 1>to live in a place that doesn't have many predators,

715
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:40.159
<v Speaker 1>has lots of food, has lots of space, has lots

716
00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:43.760
<v Speaker 1>of doesn't have much disturbance. They go in there and go, oh,

717
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:47.159
<v Speaker 1>this is cracking. We'll stay here. Yeah. So you've got

718
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:50.039
<v Speaker 1>all these things happening in the same place, but you've

719
00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:55.119
<v Speaker 1>got the conservation bit, and then it's funded by grouse shooting,

720
00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:59.920
<v Speaker 1>and that's the I don't think they're very good at

721
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:03.719
<v Speaker 1>taking that clear necessarily in the event that's my Maybe

722
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:04.480
<v Speaker 1>they've changed it this.

723
00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:12.519
<v Speaker 2>Year, Uh was was it clear? I think so. At

724
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:16.599
<v Speaker 2>one point we went to a to the lunch hut

725
00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:19.079
<v Speaker 2>and we met the keeper and the keepers saying about

726
00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:26.239
<v Speaker 2>about trapping stokes and that how they they get quite

727
00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:30.360
<v Speaker 2>a few every year and that tends to be a

728
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:33.920
<v Speaker 2>big thing that enables a lot of the birds to

729
00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:39.400
<v Speaker 2>keep nesting. And he was quite he was quite clear

730
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:43.000
<v Speaker 2>of what they what they do in order to to

731
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:47.880
<v Speaker 2>maintain this habitat and to increase it for biodiversity. And

732
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:51.039
<v Speaker 2>I think everyone kept chiming in because we had people

733
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:54.920
<v Speaker 2>from all sides of the spectrum at the at the event.

734
00:44:57.159 --> 00:44:59.760
<v Speaker 1>That's the shoot, that's the sort of the political spectrum,

735
00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:02.079
<v Speaker 1>not the not our spectrum.

736
00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:09.079
<v Speaker 2>I think most of us are now, all the photographers,

737
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:12.599
<v Speaker 2>if they've got a pair of bins and they go, oh, curly,

738
00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:16.119
<v Speaker 2>you fascinating, you could probably you know, I hazard a

739
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:19.119
<v Speaker 2>guess I'd flip a coin at it. What spectrum they're on?

740
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:22.400
<v Speaker 2>And I'm with you, all right there with you me.

741
00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:26.159
<v Speaker 2>What was it the meme I sent you the other day?

742
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:28.719
<v Speaker 2>It's it's always are you.

743
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:30.960
<v Speaker 1>Very careful now? Describing which one.

744
00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:34.719
<v Speaker 2>It's always are you autistic? And not? Thank you for

745
00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:37.360
<v Speaker 2>pointing out that that was a buzzard from three hundred

746
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:43.559
<v Speaker 2>yards away? Why is it that? Is it anyway?

747
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:46.119
<v Speaker 1>All sorts of people from across the spectrum.

748
00:45:46.519 --> 00:45:49.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so so I think it was. It was clear

749
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:54.599
<v Speaker 2>that it was funded by shooting, and shooting is the

750
00:45:54.639 --> 00:46:01.559
<v Speaker 2>thing that makes that happen. But actually, Matt, Matt Ridley,

751
00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:05.679
<v Speaker 2>the chat that runs the gap, he he's probably never

752
00:46:05.719 --> 00:46:08.039
<v Speaker 2>been cause no one's ever said that about him ever,

753
00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:13.480
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, Matt Ridley, he actually pays for his own shooting.

754
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:19.679
<v Speaker 2>So it's quite it's quite clear that Matt sits in

755
00:46:19.719 --> 00:46:23.400
<v Speaker 2>a point where he does like the shooting. I think

756
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:27.599
<v Speaker 2>he might like bird watching more, and he might like

757
00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:30.719
<v Speaker 2>the whole keepering and bird watching more than he does

758
00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:34.920
<v Speaker 2>the shooting itself. So yeah, if he can find a

759
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:40.119
<v Speaker 2>vehicle that can fund such a project, he's there to

760
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:44.760
<v Speaker 2>do it. And I would say to anyone that's sort

761
00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:49.679
<v Speaker 2>of anti shooting, you need to go to a place

762
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:56.840
<v Speaker 2>like that and experience it and and just see how

763
00:46:56.960 --> 00:47:03.880
<v Speaker 2>much these people genuinely care. And it's a shame that

764
00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:07.920
<v Speaker 2>it gets bundled in with other kinds of shooting that

765
00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:13.280
<v Speaker 2>people that don't care, And it almost doesn't matter that

766
00:47:14.079 --> 00:47:18.519
<v Speaker 2>you get people that might go grouse shooting that don't

767
00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:23.159
<v Speaker 2>care about the conservation. I'm not justifying the actions, but

768
00:47:23.239 --> 00:47:27.159
<v Speaker 2>it also doesn't matter that there's people there. The reality

769
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:30.880
<v Speaker 2>is they're paying the money and the results and the

770
00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:37.480
<v Speaker 2>outcomes are a positive impact on the environment and the habitat, biodiversity,

771
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:43.360
<v Speaker 2>the whole shebang. So yeah, it is interesting. I'm tempted

772
00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:51.280
<v Speaker 2>to invite some of my more anti friends or people

773
00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:56.400
<v Speaker 2>that work for RSPB or something like that and see

774
00:47:56.440 --> 00:47:59.159
<v Speaker 2>if I can get them to come to something like that,

775
00:47:59.239 --> 00:48:01.960
<v Speaker 2>because think it would be a real eye opener for

776
00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:04.000
<v Speaker 2>them and they could ask the difficult questions and they

777
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:07.800
<v Speaker 2>get an honest answer. That's the important thing about these events.

778
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:14.639
<v Speaker 1>I think this is something that shooting but also land management,

779
00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:19.519
<v Speaker 1>so I'm including forestry in that farming. There are lots

780
00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:21.280
<v Speaker 1>of very good communicators in there, and lots of people

781
00:48:21.320 --> 00:48:23.440
<v Speaker 1>doing a great job, and we've had them on the show,

782
00:48:23.559 --> 00:48:31.599
<v Speaker 1>but overall those people aren't particularly good at showing the

783
00:48:31.639 --> 00:48:34.840
<v Speaker 1>good that comes from what they do or you know. Instead,

784
00:48:35.239 --> 00:48:38.039
<v Speaker 1>the focus comes on to arguing with people who tell

785
00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:40.960
<v Speaker 1>them they're doing wrong, whereas almost if you ignore those

786
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:42.880
<v Speaker 1>people and only talk about the good of what you

787
00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:45.039
<v Speaker 1>do and say that, Okay, this is how this system works.

788
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.599
<v Speaker 1>This thing happens because of this, and this is a

789
00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:51.480
<v Speaker 1>good thing because of this, this and this, But it

790
00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:54.039
<v Speaker 1>always gets overlaid with yeah, but look what the RSPB

791
00:48:54.119 --> 00:48:56.559
<v Speaker 1>are doing over there. They've got you know, they're terrible.

792
00:48:57.039 --> 00:48:59.000
<v Speaker 1>If you just say no, we've got the best outcome,

793
00:48:59.159 --> 00:49:00.920
<v Speaker 1>we are the best, we do this, we do that,

794
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:05.239
<v Speaker 1>and don't knock anyone else down, you might have a

795
00:49:05.239 --> 00:49:09.440
<v Speaker 1>better result with the public. And I think that's sort

796
00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:12.000
<v Speaker 1>of where the events like the Why Mornan's better events

797
00:49:12.039 --> 00:49:14.280
<v Speaker 1>they give they have the opportunity to do that at

798
00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:16.800
<v Speaker 1>least even if it's like a small scale, because what

799
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:19.679
<v Speaker 1>they were like ten people there on the event eight people.

800
00:49:19.639 --> 00:49:21.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'd say it was about ten. Yeah.

801
00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:25.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So you've got ten people out there to go

802
00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:28.599
<v Speaker 1>and see all of those things and see for themselves

803
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:30.519
<v Speaker 1>and see the proof on the ground, which is what

804
00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:35.960
<v Speaker 1>those events are great for at scale. Do you think

805
00:49:35.960 --> 00:49:38.840
<v Speaker 1>it translates over do you think like, are you're going

806
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:40.880
<v Speaker 1>to go and tell well, you're telling about five thousand

807
00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:43.159
<v Speaker 1>people about it now, but I think our five thousand

808
00:49:43.159 --> 00:49:44.360
<v Speaker 1>people are already sold.

809
00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:49.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that is the risk. Hopefully there's people out there

810
00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:51.880
<v Speaker 2>that sit on the fence and they don't know this stuff.

811
00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:57.280
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I just I think we just need to

812
00:49:57.280 --> 00:50:00.920
<v Speaker 2>make it clear that these people don't get paid by

813
00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:04.239
<v Speaker 2>something you may or may not agree with, that they

814
00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:14.000
<v Speaker 2>are making positive outcomes and have good a good impact

815
00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:19.599
<v Speaker 2>on on what they do. Although there was an interesting

816
00:50:19.639 --> 00:50:21.920
<v Speaker 2>debate and I don't know how how deep we get

817
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:24.440
<v Speaker 2>into this, and I know absolutely nothing about it, but

818
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:32.119
<v Speaker 2>the subject of heather burning just kept coming up and

819
00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:38.440
<v Speaker 2>up and on. Chap kept citing that he'd heard it

820
00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:41.519
<v Speaker 2>both ways, that it was good in some ways, that

821
00:50:41.559 --> 00:50:45.440
<v Speaker 2>it was bad and it's not. Really I don't think

822
00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:54.679
<v Speaker 2>anybody has the answer whether it's good or bad, but yeah, wow,

823
00:50:56.719 --> 00:51:01.440
<v Speaker 2>it depends. It depends. So some people say it's bad

824
00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:06.719
<v Speaker 2>for biodiversity because you're effectively burning down pieces of heather,

825
00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:10.760
<v Speaker 2>which is the what is heather? Heather is just a

826
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:19.920
<v Speaker 2>plant shrub everywhere on moorland, almost a lot of places

827
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:24.960
<v Speaker 2>that offers basically offers insects and stuff, but it doesn't

828
00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:30.159
<v Speaker 2>really offer a great deal of habitat for ground nesting

829
00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:33.880
<v Speaker 2>birds and other such things.

830
00:51:34.199 --> 00:51:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a woody shrub that grows about knee high

831
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:41.119
<v Speaker 1>and a little bit higher if you let it. But

832
00:51:41.480 --> 00:51:45.960
<v Speaker 1>it can be managed annually or managed back down to

833
00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:48.679
<v Speaker 1>zero almost, and then you get new shoots coming up,

834
00:51:48.719 --> 00:51:51.960
<v Speaker 1>and the new shoots are very springy and green.

835
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:52.559
<v Speaker 2>And.

836
00:51:54.239 --> 00:51:56.840
<v Speaker 1>It can provide cover and habitat when it's at the

837
00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:59.119
<v Speaker 1>woody stage, but it also becomes a huge fire risk.

838
00:51:59.599 --> 00:52:02.000
<v Speaker 1>And then when it's at the young springy stage, you've

839
00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:04.599
<v Speaker 1>got the very young stuff coming out. Those shoots are

840
00:52:04.599 --> 00:52:07.880
<v Speaker 1>what the grouse eats, but also other ground nesting birds

841
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:11.199
<v Speaker 1>and some ground nesting birds prefer the open space that's

842
00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:15.920
<v Speaker 1>left behind after what would have been a wildfire came through.

843
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:18.480
<v Speaker 1>And then in more recent times is sort of the

844
00:52:18.519 --> 00:52:21.920
<v Speaker 1>man made management. But it's a big it's cutting.

845
00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:25.480
<v Speaker 2>It's cutting it, and there's very strict rules of how

846
00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:27.559
<v Speaker 2>you cut it and burning it is that.

847
00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:31.119
<v Speaker 1>Right, Well, you burn it in place, so you can

848
00:52:31.159 --> 00:52:34.880
<v Speaker 1>mow it is one of the options. So that's how

849
00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:37.039
<v Speaker 1>a lot of morlands have gone over to managing. They

850
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:40.960
<v Speaker 1>mow strips, so you mow through the woody stems and

851
00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:45.840
<v Speaker 1>you've got strips left of not quite bare soil, but

852
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:47.480
<v Speaker 1>it goes back down to a very low level and

853
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:50.639
<v Speaker 1>then you get the young shoots coming up the range

854
00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:53.320
<v Speaker 1>of hills that's I can see from the house here.

855
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:57.280
<v Speaker 1>They get covered in stripes. It looks like one of

856
00:52:57.320 --> 00:52:59.920
<v Speaker 1>those sort of modern young person's haircuts where they have

857
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:03.599
<v Speaker 1>random stripes just cut in all over their hair. You

858
00:53:03.679 --> 00:53:06.039
<v Speaker 1>get all these random stripes all over Morland, which are

859
00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:09.320
<v Speaker 1>there as a way of getting rid of the woody

860
00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:11.719
<v Speaker 1>stems and getting younger shoots coming up. This is a

861
00:53:11.800 --> 00:53:16.320
<v Speaker 1>very poor explanation, but you'll do burning was the older

862
00:53:16.360 --> 00:53:18.519
<v Speaker 1>way of doing it. If you do it in the

863
00:53:18.559 --> 00:53:22.639
<v Speaker 1>right way, you get a cool burn versus a hot burn.

864
00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:25.480
<v Speaker 1>And this is something I have seen, don't know, it's

865
00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:30.679
<v Speaker 1>something that does need looking at, because a cool burn

866
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:32.480
<v Speaker 1>is you just take the stuff off the top and

867
00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:36.440
<v Speaker 1>everything at ground level is left untouched. And there's some

868
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:38.880
<v Speaker 1>great demonstration videos of this. And again this is one

869
00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:41.679
<v Speaker 1>of those areas where if they did this on the

870
00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:45.440
<v Speaker 1>BBC on a national flagship TV show, you get the

871
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:48.800
<v Speaker 1>point across. But because it's on some gamekeepers' Instagram account,

872
00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:52.039
<v Speaker 1>no one sees it. Where they put a mars bar

873
00:53:52.599 --> 00:53:54.760
<v Speaker 1>down on the ground and do a burn over the

874
00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:56.159
<v Speaker 1>top and then pick up the mars bar and the

875
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:59.199
<v Speaker 1>marsbar still hard. Or another one where somebody put their

876
00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:02.480
<v Speaker 1>phone down and just with the camera on filming and

877
00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:04.639
<v Speaker 1>the burn went over the top and it just takes

878
00:54:04.679 --> 00:54:07.360
<v Speaker 1>the very light woody stems off the top and leaves

879
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:12.039
<v Speaker 1>behind the wet stuff that's lower down, So you only

880
00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:14.280
<v Speaker 1>burn a small amount at time, and you get this

881
00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:16.719
<v Speaker 1>young regeneration coming up. It's very much like what I

882
00:54:16.760 --> 00:54:19.079
<v Speaker 1>do in a woodland with copper sinc. So where we

883
00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:21.599
<v Speaker 1>cut down hazels back down to the stump and let

884
00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:25.239
<v Speaker 1>the young growth come back up. It's a rotational management.

885
00:54:27.079 --> 00:54:31.639
<v Speaker 1>One of the things that was suggested and then pretty

886
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:37.000
<v Speaker 1>much adopted by the wildlife trusts and other organizations like

887
00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:40.280
<v Speaker 1>the RSPB that took over the management of some older

888
00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:42.719
<v Speaker 1>grouse malls and other moorlands was they went for the

889
00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:46.880
<v Speaker 1>rewetting idea, which is where you stop water draining off

890
00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:49.840
<v Speaker 1>the moorland, which good to a degree because a lot

891
00:54:49.840 --> 00:54:51.760
<v Speaker 1>of effort was put in in the nineteenth and twentieth

892
00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:54.519
<v Speaker 1>century to drain the moorlands and make them nice and dry,

893
00:54:55.079 --> 00:54:57.360
<v Speaker 1>and just wet them instead, and then you get lots

894
00:54:57.400 --> 00:55:00.360
<v Speaker 1>of shrubby growth on top, and then you a few

895
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:04.199
<v Speaker 1>bits for the young growth. The problem is that when

896
00:55:04.239 --> 00:55:08.679
<v Speaker 1>you do get a fire eventually, as happened last week

897
00:55:08.840 --> 00:55:13.440
<v Speaker 1>at time of recording on National Trust Ground in the

898
00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:17.639
<v Speaker 1>Peak district near the Snake Pass, when it does burn,

899
00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:20.280
<v Speaker 1>it's got a lot of fuel and it burns out

900
00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:22.920
<v Speaker 1>huge areas and burns right down and you get a

901
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:25.119
<v Speaker 1>hot burn and it does burn down into the soil.

902
00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:29.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't think how it started yet. It's possibly barbecue,

903
00:55:29.320 --> 00:55:31.960
<v Speaker 1>possibly campfire, something like that.

904
00:55:32.280 --> 00:55:34.480
<v Speaker 2>It could be anything, yeah, but it doesn't really matter.

905
00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:37.400
<v Speaker 2>Like they can start with almost anything.

906
00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:40.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. It could be a piece of glass that lenses

907
00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:42.199
<v Speaker 1>through and you get from the sunlight and you get

908
00:55:42.199 --> 00:55:44.360
<v Speaker 1>a hot spot. But it doesn't really matter. The point

909
00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:46.480
<v Speaker 1>is that eventually you will always get a fire in

910
00:55:46.519 --> 00:55:49.639
<v Speaker 1>these places. Yeah, if there's a lot of material there

911
00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:52.920
<v Speaker 1>to burn, the fire will burn very very deep and

912
00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:55.920
<v Speaker 1>burn right down into the seed bank. That's on the moorlands.

913
00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:58.440
<v Speaker 1>And that happened on a on a mountain not far

914
00:55:58.480 --> 00:56:00.639
<v Speaker 1>from here a few years ago at the Hale True Paths,

915
00:56:00.639 --> 00:56:04.119
<v Speaker 1>where it's still barren five or six years later. In

916
00:56:04.159 --> 00:56:07.360
<v Speaker 1>places because nothing is yeah, nothing's come up because it

917
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:10.079
<v Speaker 1>burnt right the way down to the seed bank and

918
00:56:10.199 --> 00:56:12.679
<v Speaker 1>right the way down through the organic soil.

919
00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:16.400
<v Speaker 2>How long could that take to feasibly come back.

920
00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:19.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's what will come back, because what will come

921
00:56:19.400 --> 00:56:21.079
<v Speaker 1>back might be all the seeds that are blown in

922
00:56:21.119 --> 00:56:24.800
<v Speaker 1>from elsewhere. So it might not go it might become

923
00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:26.840
<v Speaker 1>green again, and it is becoming green, but it might

924
00:56:26.920 --> 00:56:29.880
<v Speaker 1>just become all the other moorland grasses instead of the

925
00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:33.199
<v Speaker 1>heather moorland that was there before, or it might be

926
00:56:33.280 --> 00:56:37.440
<v Speaker 1>lots of bracken. When you change a landscape, you might

927
00:56:37.480 --> 00:56:40.199
<v Speaker 1>not be changing it. It might be changing it into

928
00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:43.079
<v Speaker 1>something else. Yeah, And just I suppose better or worse

929
00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:45.559
<v Speaker 1>as a human term, isn't it? You know, it's it's

930
00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:46.239
<v Speaker 1>our judgment.

931
00:56:46.400 --> 00:56:52.320
<v Speaker 2>But it's moreland, isn't it? Yeah? Isn't especially. So one

932
00:56:52.360 --> 00:56:57.440
<v Speaker 2>of the interesting factoids that I got was obviously they

933
00:56:57.559 --> 00:57:02.440
<v Speaker 2>used to burn back places, so the sheep had areas

934
00:57:02.440 --> 00:57:09.880
<v Speaker 2>to graze. So apparently you can carbon date bits of

935
00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:13.440
<v Speaker 2>burning in the soil back to six thousand years ago,

936
00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:17.199
<v Speaker 2>So it's it's not a new thing to be burning

937
00:57:18.719 --> 00:57:19.880
<v Speaker 2>burning this stuff back.

938
00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:23.079
<v Speaker 1>No, And that's another thing that sort of became this

939
00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:27.320
<v Speaker 1>presumption that everything, all areas of Upland were all heavily

940
00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:29.599
<v Speaker 1>wooded and then we cut them down and then replaced

941
00:57:29.800 --> 00:57:34.079
<v Speaker 1>the trees with sheep. But somebody was burning heather there

942
00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:36.840
<v Speaker 1>six thousand years ago, so some bits of it must

943
00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:37.360
<v Speaker 1>have been open.

944
00:57:38.039 --> 00:57:43.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I think I did ask what the what

945
00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:48.360
<v Speaker 2>the other side wants ultimately to happen to a zero burn.

946
00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:53.760
<v Speaker 2>One interesting thing is that the heather sometimes does grow

947
00:57:53.880 --> 00:57:55.960
<v Speaker 2>up to a point where it kind of falls over

948
00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:02.840
<v Speaker 2>and then it creates car of area. But I think

949
00:58:02.840 --> 00:58:07.559
<v Speaker 2>we can see that when when there's areas that are

950
00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:11.360
<v Speaker 2>open that the ground nesting birds are are doing really

951
00:58:11.360 --> 00:58:16.119
<v Speaker 2>well with it. So yeah, I don't know what the

952
00:58:16.159 --> 00:58:18.239
<v Speaker 2>answer is, but it was an interesting debate, and I

953
00:58:18.760 --> 00:58:21.880
<v Speaker 2>have so much to learn on the subject that I

954
00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:23.280
<v Speaker 2>know nothing about it really.

955
00:58:24.280 --> 00:58:26.039
<v Speaker 1>And then you had the big event early on the

956
00:58:26.519 --> 00:58:29.519
<v Speaker 1>on the second day, you went to the leck.

957
00:58:30.199 --> 00:58:32.800
<v Speaker 2>I went to the lek. That's what that's kind of,

958
00:58:32.920 --> 00:58:34.920
<v Speaker 2>that's sort of what you're there for. That's what they

959
00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:36.079
<v Speaker 2>that's what the cell is.

960
00:58:36.840 --> 00:58:37.920
<v Speaker 1>That's where I told you to go.

961
00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:42.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because you get to see the leg What is

962
00:58:42.199 --> 00:58:47.280
<v Speaker 2>a what is a lek? I I've described it as

963
00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:52.119
<v Speaker 2>just a load of birds dancing. Yeah, so that the

964
00:58:52.119 --> 00:58:57.440
<v Speaker 2>black grouse basically they're kind of having a scrap, but

965
00:58:57.480 --> 00:59:00.920
<v Speaker 2>they're not really, they're basically just dancing. But then they

966
00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:03.840
<v Speaker 2>do get a bit a bit verbal at times and

967
00:59:03.880 --> 00:59:06.320
<v Speaker 2>they do start having a having a scrap and start

968
00:59:06.360 --> 00:59:09.199
<v Speaker 2>scratching each other, and it is actually quite fierce. You

969
00:59:09.199 --> 00:59:12.679
<v Speaker 2>can hear some some feather on feather action and it's

970
00:59:12.800 --> 00:59:18.039
<v Speaker 2>audibly quite an assault really that they have on each

971
00:59:18.079 --> 00:59:22.840
<v Speaker 2>other when they're when they're battling the mails. But just

972
00:59:23.920 --> 00:59:28.639
<v Speaker 2>what I found fascinating it it's the whole, the whole. Firstly,

973
00:59:28.679 --> 00:59:32.280
<v Speaker 2>the environment. Okay, the environment is like being on a

974
00:59:32.360 --> 00:59:38.280
<v Speaker 2>different planet. Doesn't feel like you're on Earth. You're sort

975
00:59:38.280 --> 00:59:44.639
<v Speaker 2>of looking over and it's just this sort of shrubby wasteland.

976
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:48.159
<v Speaker 2>Sounds horrible, but there's nothing really there. It is just

977
00:59:48.280 --> 00:59:55.280
<v Speaker 2>like it's just a shrubby, hilly, endless environment. There's like

978
00:59:55.360 --> 01:00:00.440
<v Speaker 2>no trees on the skyline. It's just shrubs for and

979
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:04.599
<v Speaker 2>it's sort of it's only broken up by the sunrise

980
01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:08.880
<v Speaker 2>because there's nothing but the sunrise coming up. You come

981
01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:11.519
<v Speaker 2>out before I was out of that. I think we

982
01:00:11.639 --> 01:00:15.400
<v Speaker 2>left at four o'clock or half four in the morning,

983
01:00:16.679 --> 01:00:20.400
<v Speaker 2>and the sun just graces the sky and all the

984
01:00:20.440 --> 01:00:24.559
<v Speaker 2>shrubs suddenly get back lit and it's all golden and

985
01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:27.320
<v Speaker 2>there's goldens and greens, and the sky is really clear,

986
01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:31.039
<v Speaker 2>and you've just got these these birds in front of

987
01:00:31.079 --> 01:00:35.280
<v Speaker 2>you that are just doing the strangest behavior you've ever seen.

988
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:39.960
<v Speaker 2>You sort of you have this thing in your head

989
01:00:40.039 --> 01:00:46.800
<v Speaker 2>that the males are just fighting for just being like

990
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:53.400
<v Speaker 2>testosterone fueled males. It feels you default to a place

991
01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:58.320
<v Speaker 2>like rutting stags, where it's like one against the other,

992
01:00:58.840 --> 01:01:03.159
<v Speaker 2>just fighting each other. When you witness it, it's nothing

993
01:01:03.360 --> 01:01:07.519
<v Speaker 2>like it. It's these males are doing this little dance

994
01:01:07.960 --> 01:01:10.960
<v Speaker 2>and all they're trying to do is get the approval

995
01:01:11.159 --> 01:01:18.599
<v Speaker 2>of the female. And it's not it's not man versus man,

996
01:01:18.920 --> 01:01:22.760
<v Speaker 2>and then they get the female. It's it's almost as

997
01:01:22.760 --> 01:01:27.199
<v Speaker 2>if who can dance the best, who looks the best,

998
01:01:27.400 --> 01:01:31.679
<v Speaker 2>whose gene paul feels the strongest, and then the females

999
01:01:32.039 --> 01:01:36.960
<v Speaker 2>have to select the male. It's not it's not who's

1000
01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:41.679
<v Speaker 2>the strongest, it's basically who impresses the female the best

1001
01:01:42.039 --> 01:01:45.519
<v Speaker 2>and who looks like they're the they're the alpha, who's

1002
01:01:45.559 --> 01:01:48.760
<v Speaker 2>the kingpin? It felt like a nightclub.

1003
01:01:49.760 --> 01:01:51.440
<v Speaker 1>If you're going, if you were going to liken this

1004
01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:53.760
<v Speaker 1>to an ethics nightclub, which one would it be.

1005
01:01:54.320 --> 01:02:03.159
<v Speaker 2>It would be Destiny Liquid, Yeah, it'd be liquid Harlowtown

1006
01:02:03.920 --> 01:02:08.559
<v Speaker 2>dance floor to two vks, two vks in one in

1007
01:02:08.599 --> 01:02:15.440
<v Speaker 2>each hand, dancing probably like acon, yeah, yeah, maybe a

1008
01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:16.079
<v Speaker 2>bit of Rhianna.

1009
01:02:17.800 --> 01:02:19.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but it's it's not.

1010
01:02:21.199 --> 01:02:23.440
<v Speaker 2>It's just a it's just a bizarre thing. So that

1011
01:02:23.960 --> 01:02:31.280
<v Speaker 2>the Hens they there's just all these blokes knocking around

1012
01:02:31.320 --> 01:02:34.039
<v Speaker 2>in the middle, doing their little dance and occasionally aving

1013
01:02:34.039 --> 01:02:37.639
<v Speaker 2>a scrap, and then there's there's no there's not even

1014
01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:41.440
<v Speaker 2>a there's not even a hen bird around. They're just

1015
01:02:41.480 --> 01:02:48.559
<v Speaker 2>doing this. That's that's their thing. And then somehow, while

1016
01:02:48.599 --> 01:02:53.039
<v Speaker 2>they're puffed up, and also they exhale. When they exhale,

1017
01:02:53.159 --> 01:02:55.840
<v Speaker 2>even though it wasn't cold, you can see their breath.

1018
01:02:56.599 --> 01:03:00.760
<v Speaker 2>They're that they're that tense and they're that worked up

1019
01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:07.679
<v Speaker 2>about this that their body is literally boiling hot and

1020
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:11.719
<v Speaker 2>exhaling warm air from themselves. So it's clearly like a

1021
01:03:11.880 --> 01:03:16.000
<v Speaker 2>very a very intense, quite stressful thing for them to do.

1022
01:03:17.599 --> 01:03:22.480
<v Speaker 2>It's not like it is fueled with like pure aggression,

1023
01:03:23.159 --> 01:03:27.440
<v Speaker 2>so they're doing this, and from like two hundred yards away,

1024
01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:31.639
<v Speaker 2>suddenly a bird will, a hen will just come over

1025
01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:34.960
<v Speaker 2>the horizon and you haven't seen it at all, and

1026
01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:38.719
<v Speaker 2>you're looking and these birds are like doing a little circle,

1027
01:03:38.800 --> 01:03:42.400
<v Speaker 2>all puffed out, and they've spotted this hen bird from

1028
01:03:42.559 --> 01:03:45.480
<v Speaker 2>two hundred meters away, and they just start doing this

1029
01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:48.320
<v Speaker 2>dance where they just like flick up and they jump up,

1030
01:03:48.559 --> 01:03:50.599
<v Speaker 2>and then all of a sudden, it just the body

1031
01:03:50.679 --> 01:03:52.880
<v Speaker 2>languages all change and they all just start flicking up

1032
01:03:52.920 --> 01:03:55.079
<v Speaker 2>and they all get excited and they jump in the air.

1033
01:03:55.480 --> 01:03:59.440
<v Speaker 2>And it's mad how they can see you through see

1034
01:03:59.480 --> 01:04:02.480
<v Speaker 2>a head bird come in from that far away. And

1035
01:04:02.519 --> 01:04:05.760
<v Speaker 2>then she just spends between that. You might have like

1036
01:04:05.880 --> 01:04:09.360
<v Speaker 2>five six, seven, eight hens all on in a little

1037
01:04:09.400 --> 01:04:13.239
<v Speaker 2>circle and they'll just spin around and they're just slowly

1038
01:04:13.320 --> 01:04:19.440
<v Speaker 2>waiting for the right black grouse that's done all the

1039
01:04:19.840 --> 01:04:24.519
<v Speaker 2>maneuvers perfectly. And then and then she's like, yeah, gone,

1040
01:04:24.639 --> 01:04:28.440
<v Speaker 2>you could have some. And I think there was something bizarre,

1041
01:04:28.519 --> 01:04:34.119
<v Speaker 2>like one of them will get like fifty percent, then

1042
01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:37.039
<v Speaker 2>like number two will get like thirty percent, and number

1043
01:04:37.119 --> 01:04:41.400
<v Speaker 2>three might get ten percent, number four might get ten percent,

1044
01:04:42.119 --> 01:04:45.360
<v Speaker 2>and then the rest will just get nothing, they'll never

1045
01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:48.920
<v Speaker 2>get a chance some of some of them die without

1046
01:04:48.960 --> 01:04:54.199
<v Speaker 2>ever getting a chance to mate. And usually it goes

1047
01:04:54.280 --> 01:04:58.880
<v Speaker 2>like first years you've got no child, second years, no chance,

1048
01:04:58.960 --> 01:05:02.119
<v Speaker 2>third year you might be in with a with an outside,

1049
01:05:02.360 --> 01:05:05.000
<v Speaker 2>and then like four years you get a chance. So

1050
01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:10.639
<v Speaker 2>it's like it really is a continuation of the gene

1051
01:05:10.639 --> 01:05:15.920
<v Speaker 2>pool where the female select the ones that do this

1052
01:05:15.920 --> 01:05:25.239
<v Speaker 2>this flamboyant dancing. It's fascinating to watch. It's unbelievable experience.

1053
01:05:25.480 --> 01:05:26.840
<v Speaker 2>I have to say, it's probably one of the most

1054
01:05:26.880 --> 01:05:28.400
<v Speaker 2>amazing things I've ever seen in my life.

1055
01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:32.559
<v Speaker 1>Good. It's one of those it's like it's not a

1056
01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:35.880
<v Speaker 1>it's not something I was to say, not even from

1057
01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:38.519
<v Speaker 1>this country, but even from it feels like you're watching

1058
01:05:38.559 --> 01:05:41.360
<v Speaker 1>something completely otherworldly whilst it whilst you've got the miss

1059
01:05:41.440 --> 01:05:46.039
<v Speaker 1>and the sunrise coming up, and there's fifteen humans all

1060
01:05:46.079 --> 01:05:48.119
<v Speaker 1>pointing at it, but no one's talking, no one's and

1061
01:05:48.159 --> 01:05:51.480
<v Speaker 1>everyone's just absorbed in this thing that's taking what two

1062
01:05:51.519 --> 01:05:52.480
<v Speaker 1>hours you sat there for?

1063
01:05:53.559 --> 01:05:56.639
<v Speaker 2>So you have the rule was you have to wait

1064
01:05:56.719 --> 01:06:02.159
<v Speaker 2>until the last female leaves so you don't disturb them

1065
01:06:01.719 --> 01:06:04.119
<v Speaker 2>from from copulating.

1066
01:06:06.519 --> 01:06:09.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and this was something that used to take place

1067
01:06:09.360 --> 01:06:11.920
<v Speaker 1>used to be able to find this in every county

1068
01:06:11.960 --> 01:06:13.599
<v Speaker 1>in England and Wales.

1069
01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:14.800
<v Speaker 2>I know, unbelieve, wasn't it.

1070
01:06:15.880 --> 01:06:18.079
<v Speaker 1>And this, you know, all those little bits of heathlands

1071
01:06:18.159 --> 01:06:20.400
<v Speaker 1>that we've lost and all these open areas you would

1072
01:06:20.440 --> 01:06:22.719
<v Speaker 1>have got you would have had black grouse doing this,

1073
01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:26.199
<v Speaker 1>and it just people talk about, you know, we've we've

1074
01:06:26.199 --> 01:06:29.320
<v Speaker 1>lost h we've lost we have we have lost some things,

1075
01:06:29.320 --> 01:06:32.159
<v Speaker 1>and this is one of those things where the only

1076
01:06:32.199 --> 01:06:34.280
<v Speaker 1>places to find it now in abundance are on these

1077
01:06:34.360 --> 01:06:40.599
<v Speaker 1>keeperd grouse malls, which when you compare it to you

1078
01:06:40.800 --> 01:06:44.280
<v Speaker 1>again the hills here there are there would have been

1079
01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:46.519
<v Speaker 1>people out this spring looking at that. We have black

1080
01:06:46.559 --> 01:06:48.840
<v Speaker 1>grouse here, but not very many of them. And you

1081
01:06:48.920 --> 01:06:52.440
<v Speaker 1>had what how many black grouse cocks were you looking at?

1082
01:06:53.079 --> 01:06:58.199
<v Speaker 2>I think in to we had I think it was

1083
01:06:58.199 --> 01:07:02.559
<v Speaker 2>something between twenty something in front of me twenty five

1084
01:07:02.719 --> 01:07:04.920
<v Speaker 2>and then there was sort of ye, it was sixteen

1085
01:07:05.119 --> 01:07:08.800
<v Speaker 2>hens or something. We worked out that roughly what we

1086
01:07:08.880 --> 01:07:10.880
<v Speaker 2>had in front of us at that one point was

1087
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:13.760
<v Speaker 2>about five percent of the population of the black grouse

1088
01:07:13.800 --> 01:07:15.199
<v Speaker 2>in the UK, right in front of us.

1089
01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and up here if they found five, they'd be amazed. Yeah,

1090
01:07:20.960 --> 01:07:23.599
<v Speaker 1>but this is the area that gets huge amounts of fund.

1091
01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:25.920
<v Speaker 2>How much have they spent for five black grouse?

1092
01:07:26.639 --> 01:07:29.000
<v Speaker 1>And when you consider the places where they are trying

1093
01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:31.599
<v Speaker 1>to restore this species, but they're just getting nothing off

1094
01:07:31.599 --> 01:07:36.559
<v Speaker 1>the ground because the management isn't being done in the

1095
01:07:36.599 --> 01:07:39.519
<v Speaker 1>same way. Whereas if you took these places that looked

1096
01:07:39.559 --> 01:07:42.760
<v Speaker 1>like a grouse more and manage them like a grouse more. Yeah,

1097
01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:45.079
<v Speaker 1>even if you didn't do the grouse shooting bit and

1098
01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:47.880
<v Speaker 1>just found the found the money from elsewhere, eventually you

1099
01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:49.599
<v Speaker 1>should have the same outcome as you have on a

1100
01:07:49.639 --> 01:07:54.400
<v Speaker 1>grouse more. It's not that Matt Ridley and vikat Ridley. Yeah,

1101
01:07:54.440 --> 01:07:57.320
<v Speaker 1>he's not blessed by God to have a certain amount

1102
01:07:57.360 --> 01:08:01.320
<v Speaker 1>of black grouse on his moorland. It's because people under

1103
01:08:01.360 --> 01:08:04.400
<v Speaker 1>his under his employee have done the work and then

1104
01:08:04.480 --> 01:08:06.840
<v Speaker 1>now he has them there and all the other birds

1105
01:08:07.079 --> 01:08:10.599
<v Speaker 1>curly weighed waders, lapp wings Yeah what lappings are waders?

1106
01:08:10.599 --> 01:08:14.880
<v Speaker 1>But you know what I mean. So, I think the events,

1107
01:08:15.320 --> 01:08:17.439
<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to remember the figures Tarkun gave us for

1108
01:08:17.479 --> 01:08:21.760
<v Speaker 1>the podcast last year, but I think it's something like

1109
01:08:22.119 --> 01:08:24.880
<v Speaker 1>three thousand pounds per event or they are about I

1110
01:08:24.880 --> 01:08:28.560
<v Speaker 1>think it was like twelve pounds to run four events,

1111
01:08:29.199 --> 01:08:33.760
<v Speaker 1>so that's about three what's three thousand an event, which

1112
01:08:34.239 --> 01:08:37.520
<v Speaker 1>is an expensive do, particularly when you know they're not

1113
01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:39.439
<v Speaker 1>renting the lodge. I think they get the lodge for free.

1114
01:08:39.439 --> 01:08:42.119
<v Speaker 1>I think food is a big cost. And then I

1115
01:08:42.119 --> 01:08:45.239
<v Speaker 1>don't know what. There's sort of there some book materials

1116
01:08:45.239 --> 01:08:50.079
<v Speaker 1>you get tarquin and Emily's photo books after the Why Ball.

1117
01:08:49.960 --> 01:08:54.279
<v Speaker 2>And Matter's book. I haven't actually sort of looked for

1118
01:08:54.319 --> 01:08:56.520
<v Speaker 2>a couple of pictures, but I mean I had a

1119
01:08:56.640 --> 01:08:59.399
<v Speaker 2>chance to look. I actually got to go with Tarquin

1120
01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:04.640
<v Speaker 2>in in the car to do like a little phototour.

1121
01:09:04.800 --> 01:09:08.199
<v Speaker 2>It was so much fun. I've never seen a man

1122
01:09:09.279 --> 01:09:12.119
<v Speaker 2>have a So I think he's got cannon R one

1123
01:09:12.520 --> 01:09:17.039
<v Speaker 2>and a six hundred bill prime, which is very expensive.

1124
01:09:17.159 --> 01:09:18.680
<v Speaker 2>You can google the price of that if you like.

1125
01:09:18.800 --> 01:09:22.119
<v Speaker 2>That was it was an expensive It was an expensive

1126
01:09:22.119 --> 01:09:24.239
<v Speaker 2>bit of kit. And he's got it on a mount

1127
01:09:24.520 --> 01:09:27.159
<v Speaker 2>on the side of his car and he's driving down

1128
01:09:27.159 --> 01:09:31.199
<v Speaker 2>the track, not fast, but he's driving down not a road,

1129
01:09:31.520 --> 01:09:36.039
<v Speaker 2>a track with it mounted on a man Frotto head

1130
01:09:36.199 --> 01:09:38.920
<v Speaker 2>over the side of a car. And I took some

1131
01:09:39.039 --> 01:09:41.600
<v Speaker 2>video of it because I felt like putting an Instagram

1132
01:09:42.039 --> 01:09:44.840
<v Speaker 2>reel that said something like, you know, I want to

1133
01:09:44.880 --> 01:09:50.640
<v Speaker 2>trust like this man trusts this this mount because that

1134
01:09:50.760 --> 01:09:53.000
<v Speaker 2>was that was a thing to see. But yeah, we

1135
01:09:53.359 --> 01:09:57.119
<v Speaker 2>saw like shorted ours, We saw Stipe and we went

1136
01:09:57.199 --> 01:09:59.960
<v Speaker 2>and had a little adventure taking photos. It was really good.

1137
01:10:01.000 --> 01:10:04.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's all those events there. I think they're

1138
01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:08.000
<v Speaker 1>currently privately funded as well. I think Takin through his

1139
01:10:09.479 --> 01:10:11.439
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, he's a fishing he's a shooting agent.

1140
01:10:11.600 --> 01:10:14.239
<v Speaker 1>I think is his day job. So he sort of

1141
01:10:14.239 --> 01:10:17.720
<v Speaker 1>sells shooting days and fishing days. So I think he

1142
01:10:17.800 --> 01:10:20.600
<v Speaker 1>got some contact through there to give him money for

1143
01:10:20.680 --> 01:10:23.319
<v Speaker 1>these events to you know, to sort of further the

1144
01:10:23.359 --> 01:10:26.479
<v Speaker 1>cause of conservation. And so I think, I know he's

1145
01:10:26.479 --> 01:10:28.880
<v Speaker 1>trying to raise money for more before Christmas, so hopefully

1146
01:10:28.880 --> 01:10:32.119
<v Speaker 1>were successful in that. I know there were some various

1147
01:10:32.159 --> 01:10:35.840
<v Speaker 1>opportunities there to get more money into it. So I

1148
01:10:35.880 --> 01:10:38.039
<v Speaker 1>don't know. I hopefully these events will continue and they'll

1149
01:10:38.079 --> 01:10:40.279
<v Speaker 1>carry on because I know a lot of work goes

1150
01:10:40.319 --> 01:10:41.960
<v Speaker 1>into it, and it's a hell of a lot of work.

1151
01:10:42.039 --> 01:10:45.279
<v Speaker 1>But I don't know if it also has to hit

1152
01:10:45.279 --> 01:10:47.560
<v Speaker 1>a wider audience, and maybe there's a there's the mass

1153
01:10:47.600 --> 01:10:49.439
<v Speaker 1>public version you can do as well.

1154
01:10:49.680 --> 01:10:54.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh the other thing as well that we haven't really

1155
01:10:54.439 --> 01:10:59.279
<v Speaker 2>touched on is Emie Graham was just explaining about how

1156
01:10:59.439 --> 01:11:06.359
<v Speaker 2>much the Grouse shooting means just to just to the

1157
01:11:06.399 --> 01:11:12.600
<v Speaker 2>local economy and the people that live there. There was

1158
01:11:12.640 --> 01:11:17.359
<v Speaker 2>a thing about cab drivers making a living out of

1159
01:11:17.479 --> 01:11:21.319
<v Speaker 2>just basically ferrying people to and from train stations and whatnot,

1160
01:11:21.880 --> 01:11:26.199
<v Speaker 2>and how they're basically employed mostly due to the tourism

1161
01:11:26.399 --> 01:11:31.720
<v Speaker 2>in the area. And then you had the obvious mental

1162
01:11:31.720 --> 01:11:36.039
<v Speaker 2>health benefits and the pubs and restaurants and stuff that

1163
01:11:36.760 --> 01:11:40.920
<v Speaker 2>benefit from people coming in spending some cash in what

1164
01:11:41.199 --> 01:11:46.560
<v Speaker 2>is quite it would be generally a rural poor community

1165
01:11:46.680 --> 01:11:50.600
<v Speaker 2>and if it wasn't for people going beating and shooting,

1166
01:11:50.760 --> 01:11:52.960
<v Speaker 2>and there wouldn't be much to do and there wouldn't

1167
01:11:53.000 --> 01:11:57.800
<v Speaker 2>be much money in the area. So it was the

1168
01:11:57.880 --> 01:12:02.159
<v Speaker 2>stories that were told were quite poignant and really hit

1169
01:12:02.239 --> 01:12:07.960
<v Speaker 2>home how having activities, shooting activities in an area like

1170
01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:13.640
<v Speaker 2>that means so much to those people in that area.

1171
01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:19.079
<v Speaker 2>But I will say that's also the excuse that so

1172
01:12:19.279 --> 01:12:23.680
<v Speaker 2>many people use to justify shooting, and a lot of

1173
01:12:23.760 --> 01:12:28.119
<v Speaker 2>times it just isn't true. Like a few guns that

1174
01:12:28.760 --> 01:12:31.760
<v Speaker 2>probably stop off at like Greg's along the services to

1175
01:12:33.439 --> 01:12:36.920
<v Speaker 2>grab a coffee and a sausage roll isn't the same

1176
01:12:37.239 --> 01:12:41.880
<v Speaker 2>as supporting a rural community in some way quite remote,

1177
01:12:42.199 --> 01:12:48.640
<v Speaker 2>so to paint, I really hate the argument that shooting

1178
01:12:48.720 --> 01:12:54.319
<v Speaker 2>supports communities and does so much positive good. And if

1179
01:12:54.359 --> 01:12:57.840
<v Speaker 2>you ban if you ban this, it's what was it?

1180
01:12:57.920 --> 01:13:00.520
<v Speaker 2>Three billion is the figure that's always thrown around shooting

1181
01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:04.319
<v Speaker 2>provides three billions to hospitality and like it does in

1182
01:13:04.399 --> 01:13:07.960
<v Speaker 2>some places, but that's not not allowed to use that

1183
01:13:08.640 --> 01:13:11.760
<v Speaker 2>if it doesn't, because they do who everyone does.

1184
01:13:12.560 --> 01:13:15.439
<v Speaker 1>It's with some irony. I think that was how Tarquin

1185
01:13:15.560 --> 01:13:20.640
<v Speaker 1>first heard about us because Emily one of our very

1186
01:13:20.720 --> 01:13:23.880
<v Speaker 1>very first episodes years ago, Emily sort of I think

1187
01:13:23.880 --> 01:13:26.319
<v Speaker 1>she even wrote in or left a comment saying that

1188
01:13:27.119 --> 01:13:30.119
<v Speaker 1>she took something with what I said about basically saying

1189
01:13:30.159 --> 01:13:32.840
<v Speaker 1>that saying, you know, telling her point of view of

1190
01:13:33.399 --> 01:13:36.199
<v Speaker 1>the value it has to weird al I think she is.

1191
01:13:37.239 --> 01:13:42.039
<v Speaker 1>And then the shooting there. But my point in return

1192
01:13:42.119 --> 01:13:45.039
<v Speaker 1>is basically the same thing as yours. It does in

1193
01:13:45.079 --> 01:13:50.640
<v Speaker 1>some places, not everywhere, and it's not also equally felt

1194
01:13:51.079 --> 01:13:53.720
<v Speaker 1>in those places. So if you are attached to shooting

1195
01:13:53.800 --> 01:13:57.159
<v Speaker 1>or attached to hospitality, that serves shooting, you do well

1196
01:13:57.199 --> 01:13:59.960
<v Speaker 1>from it, but if you just happen to live there

1197
01:14:00.199 --> 01:14:04.880
<v Speaker 1>and you're not in that economy, then it doesn't. And

1198
01:14:04.960 --> 01:14:07.840
<v Speaker 1>in fact, it might actually take something away from your community,

1199
01:14:07.880 --> 01:14:11.800
<v Speaker 1>because a lot of the economy is actually a geared

1200
01:14:11.800 --> 01:14:16.319
<v Speaker 1>towards the shoot because those places, those places rely on it.

1201
01:14:16.399 --> 01:14:22.840
<v Speaker 1>So a balance has to be struck and just blindly

1202
01:14:22.880 --> 01:14:25.359
<v Speaker 1>saying oh no, we support this many billions of things,

1203
01:14:26.439 --> 01:14:28.039
<v Speaker 1>you have to be a little bit more honest than

1204
01:14:28.039 --> 01:14:32.439
<v Speaker 1>that because everyone else can see through it. Yeah.

1205
01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:38.720
<v Speaker 2>I think in rara areas the social side of going

1206
01:14:38.800 --> 01:14:44.239
<v Speaker 2>beating and actually even for me, like taking my son

1207
01:14:44.319 --> 01:14:47.800
<v Speaker 2>out beating just a great thing. He absolutely loves a

1208
01:14:47.880 --> 01:14:51.079
<v Speaker 2>sense of community, meeting the same people the time. There's

1209
01:14:51.119 --> 01:14:53.479
<v Speaker 2>not many other than my family, and there's not many

1210
01:14:53.520 --> 01:14:55.760
<v Speaker 2>times that I can take him somewhere and he meets

1211
01:14:55.800 --> 01:14:58.520
<v Speaker 2>the same people over and over again and gets to

1212
01:14:58.560 --> 01:15:03.760
<v Speaker 2>know them. And and yeah, I think shooting is a

1213
01:15:03.800 --> 01:15:07.399
<v Speaker 2>net positive for everyone usually. Yeah, but you can't use

1214
01:15:07.439 --> 01:15:11.560
<v Speaker 2>it as a as a one size fits all. Oh yeah,

1215
01:15:11.600 --> 01:15:14.439
<v Speaker 2>we do loads for the local environment, but really it's

1216
01:15:14.479 --> 01:15:22.279
<v Speaker 2>just city city boys coming in and spending no money

1217
01:15:22.359 --> 01:15:26.000
<v Speaker 2>at all, having a jolly old day shooting, spend spending

1218
01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:28.119
<v Speaker 2>a fortune on their shooting, and then all of that

1219
01:15:28.199 --> 01:15:32.760
<v Speaker 2>money stays exactly in the hands of those set amount

1220
01:15:32.760 --> 01:15:33.840
<v Speaker 2>of people and then they go home.

1221
01:15:35.119 --> 01:15:37.880
<v Speaker 1>And that's the Yeah, that's pretty much my my stance

1222
01:15:37.920 --> 01:15:39.600
<v Speaker 1>on it as well. With maybe with a layer of

1223
01:15:39.640 --> 01:15:44.399
<v Speaker 1>those two things that you have to be better at

1224
01:15:44.439 --> 01:15:46.720
<v Speaker 1>her talking to the general public about the good things

1225
01:15:46.720 --> 01:15:49.920
<v Speaker 1>you do and not getting stuck in wars with people

1226
01:15:50.079 --> 01:15:56.119
<v Speaker 1>all the time. And maybe don't be complacent. Don't be

1227
01:15:56.159 --> 01:16:00.439
<v Speaker 1>complacent just because Baskus say, no, you know, it's worth

1228
01:16:00.479 --> 01:16:04.119
<v Speaker 1>this much to the economy, it's fantastic. It doesn't matter.

1229
01:16:04.159 --> 01:16:06.600
<v Speaker 1>It might get banned anyway, it might get taken away

1230
01:16:06.640 --> 01:16:08.760
<v Speaker 1>anyway if the public doesn't find a value in it.

1231
01:16:09.000 --> 01:16:11.039
<v Speaker 1>So you can't just say, oh no, we provide this

1232
01:16:11.119 --> 01:16:13.920
<v Speaker 1>much to the local area. Okay, what if the majority

1233
01:16:13.960 --> 01:16:16.920
<v Speaker 1>of people still don't like you. You have to win

1234
01:16:17.079 --> 01:16:20.000
<v Speaker 1>the wider pr war if you want people to find

1235
01:16:20.039 --> 01:16:23.920
<v Speaker 1>your thing valuable. Because I want to keep shooting and

1236
01:16:24.319 --> 01:16:26.680
<v Speaker 1>I want shooting to carry on in a good and

1237
01:16:26.720 --> 01:16:33.840
<v Speaker 1>ethical way. So well, I'm very very concerned that too

1238
01:16:33.960 --> 01:16:35.600
<v Speaker 1>much complacency will kill it.

1239
01:16:35.800 --> 01:16:42.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, Well, Chacolin's Basically, his original question was essentially like,

1240
01:16:42.840 --> 01:16:47.640
<v Speaker 2>how do we get people to open up conversations where

1241
01:16:48.840 --> 01:16:51.840
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about the positives and we're working towards a

1242
01:16:51.880 --> 01:16:56.640
<v Speaker 2>common goal. And actually the answer was holding events. Like

1243
01:16:56.800 --> 01:17:01.319
<v Speaker 2>why I'm all than matters. It's about it's doing this podcast.

1244
01:17:02.039 --> 01:17:07.560
<v Speaker 2>It's about engaging with people and telling the stories of

1245
01:17:07.640 --> 01:17:11.720
<v Speaker 2>how we find it and that is how people learn.

1246
01:17:12.359 --> 01:17:17.479
<v Speaker 2>It's about going to reform counselors and telling them how

1247
01:17:17.479 --> 01:17:21.560
<v Speaker 2>a hedge works. It's educating all of these.

1248
01:17:25.720 --> 01:17:27.600
<v Speaker 1>People in front of the hedge going see that that's

1249
01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:28.560
<v Speaker 1>something right.

1250
01:17:28.640 --> 01:17:32.960
<v Speaker 2>Next, this is a browse line, mister Nigas. The event.

1251
01:17:33.279 --> 01:17:37.399
<v Speaker 2>The event ended at eight o'clock. This is a brows line.

1252
01:17:37.439 --> 01:17:42.800
<v Speaker 2>The bloody mant jack, they're coming. Do you think a nightingale?

1253
01:17:43.479 --> 01:17:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Do you think a nightingale with nest in that? No,

1254
01:17:47.439 --> 01:17:53.920
<v Speaker 2>mister Nigas, make it stop. Yeah, I hope he's having

1255
01:17:53.920 --> 01:17:54.840
<v Speaker 2>a wonderful time.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll see if he returns next week. Right, I think

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01:17:58.920 --> 01:17:59.880
<v Speaker 1>we should do the after show.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's do it. Thank you and thank you Charquin and

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<v Speaker 2>Emily for hosting me. It was a fun time. And

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<v Speaker 2>thank you the n c O and all the people

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<v Speaker 2>that look like Jeff Garrett Bye Bye,