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Sign up now at chumbacasino dot com. 26 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:00.880 No be necessary dB I lost if it's eating Lab. 27 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:14.959 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 28 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:18.079 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 29 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:25.719 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker, DTK. Every week, 30 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:29.719 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 31 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:33.760 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 32 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:36.680 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 33 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:52.840 Good Evening, a compilation of six fascinating historical true crime stories, 34 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:56.959 all geographically attached, are close to the author's childhood home. 35 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:02.680 There's Killer of the Cloth and the Content, Mosquito Point Road, 36 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:07.239 Death of a First Basement, The Blue Guardina, and Pure 37 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:12.639 Slash Evil and three of the killers are female. The 38 00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:17.080 book they're featuring this evening is Mosquito Point Road, Monroe County, 39 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:20.759 Murder in Mayhem with my special guest, journalist and author 40 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:24.520 Michael Benson. Welcome back to the program, and thank you 41 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:26.520 very much for this interview. Michael Benson. 42 00:02:26.599 --> 00:02:29.199 Thanks Dan, good evening, Thank. 43 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:36.199 You, good evening. Indeed, we talked about in the introduction 44 00:02:36.319 --> 00:02:39.800 that all of these stories are geographically attached or close 45 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:43.520 to your childhood home. Tell us about growing up in 46 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:47.919 Chile outside of a suburb of Rochester, Chili, New York. 47 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:50.719 Tell us a little bit about growing up there and 48 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:52.560 the proximity to these stories. 49 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:56.120 Okay, everybody in Chilai is laughing right now. 50 00:02:56.840 --> 00:02:58.400 Oh, there we go again. 51 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:02.840 I did it with Highli. I grew up on a 52 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:07.000 dirt road called Stallman Drive. It was off of Balentine Road, 53 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:10.400 south of the city of Rochester, in the town of Chili. 54 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:16.639 The northern border of our land was made by Black Creek, 55 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:19.879 and Black Creek flowed into the Genesee River, which then 56 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:23.080 flowed northward into Lake Ontario, going through the city as 57 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:27.840 it went. Now, I think people who read the Devil 58 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:31.120 Genese Junction are pretty familiar with the area and the 59 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:34.800 murders of my babysitter, Georgia and Formacola and her friend 60 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:38.800 from down the road Kathy Bernhard nineteen sixty six. Now, 61 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:42.000 as I was growing up, I knew that Valentine Road 62 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:45.680 had years before been known as Mosquito Point Road, and 63 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:49.639 the assumption was that the name came The name change 64 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:53.599 came about because real estate brokers didn't want prospective buyers 65 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:57.120 thinking the area was insect infested, which it was. My 66 00:03:57.199 --> 00:03:59.680 dad never looked at the house after dark until we 67 00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:03.719 lived there, at which we were horrified that we hadn't 68 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:06.240 had a constant battle against the insects. But as it 69 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:09.520 turned out, that wasn't the reason for the name change. 70 00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:15.000 The name was changed because it became synonymous with a 71 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:19.120 ghastly murder, one that took place in nineteen twenty, exactly 72 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:22.560 one hundred years ago, and at the exact same spot 73 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:25.800 is where my friends were last seen before they were 74 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:29.279 murdered forty six years later, so that was where the 75 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:32.680 idea for the book started. Six stories, to varying degrees, 76 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:36.839 tied with my childhood home. Some took place right behind 77 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:39.680 my house in jyly down the road a bit, some 78 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:42.399 just across the Genesee River in the town of Brighton, 79 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:44.360 and one's in the town of Greece, and ones in 80 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:46.720 the town of Rondequoit, which are all simple drives from 81 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:52.000 my house growing up that The Mosquito Point Road murder 82 00:04:52.519 --> 00:04:57.360 occurred on January eighth, nineteen twenty, black creeks frozen over, 83 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:02.879 everything snow covered, and shortly before noon on that day, 84 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:06.639 the body of a young man wearing only his underwear 85 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:10.360 was found stashed on the ice under the stone trestle 86 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:15.519 just north of Mosquito Point Road, same trestle. This appears 87 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.839 on the cover of the book and where Georgiane and 88 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:23.240 Cathy were last seen. It's actually a culvert and it 89 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:27.199 was built as an aqueduct to carry the Genesee Valley 90 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:30.759 Canal across Black Creek, and by nineteen twenty it was 91 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:35.600 being used as a trestle to take the railroad across 92 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:40.279 the creek. Now, the location was described to city wellers 93 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:41.839 in the papers of the day as just south of 94 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:44.519 britain Field. I had no idea what britain Field was, 95 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:47.399 but I found out that it was a one year 96 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:51.360 old airstrip that would grow in stages into the Rochester 97 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:54.800 Monroe County International Airport. So the airport in Rochester has 98 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.319 always been in the same place since there were airplanes. 99 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:03.040 But the bridge was stone. It looked permanent, although today 100 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:05.160 it's in a state of disrepair. A little bit of 101 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:08.240 concern there someday somebody's going to walk across the thing 102 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:12.560 and fall into the creek. But at two tunnels went 103 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:14.600 under it, and they were just high enough, I know 104 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:17.199 from personal experience, just high enough so that you could 105 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:22.000 canoe under the trestle if you limboed back while you 106 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:22.680 were paddling. 107 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:24.839 But back in. 108 00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:28.720 Nineteen twenty, the man that they found under the bridge 109 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:34.600 lying on the ice had been stabbed, horribly slashed, disemboweled, 110 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:39.800 his skull caved in, and most disturbingly, his head had 111 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:44.399 been skinned. His scalp was flayed off, his ears were shredded. 112 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:49.800 One ear was hanging by a single thread of cartilage. 113 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:54.000 Now on the banks of Black Creek, next to where 114 00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:58.240 the body had been stashed, sheriff's investigators found two sets 115 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:02.360 of footprints, one man in one female, and the sheriff 116 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:04.480 himself said that it was the most brutal murder he 117 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:09.560 had ever seen around those parts in a long time. Now, 118 00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:12.399 the heaviest muddy footprints from the woman were found under 119 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:15.879 a tree about sixty feet away from the body, where 120 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:20.120 there was a large patch of red snow, and resting 121 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:23.639 atop the body was a wooden club that had at 122 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:25.759 one time been part of a railroad tie. There were 123 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:28.000 bloodstains on the club, and it was presumed that the 124 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:30.240 big stick had put the hole in the body's skull. 125 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:34.000 Now nearby they found the heel from a woman's shoe 126 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:37.839 stuck in the mud, and an investigator looked around at 127 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:40.720 the female prince and envisioned a woman dancing about in 128 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:43.199 distress as she watched the man being killed in a 129 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:46.800 gruesome way. But as it turned out, that investigator had 130 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:51.920 it all wrong. Investigators agreed that there must have been 131 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:55.399 an extended attack because it would just take a lot 132 00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:58.639 of tenacity, especially kind of anger, to flail that much 133 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:02.800 skin off of a man. So they but at first, 134 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:07.800 you know, they they managed to identify the guy by 135 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:11.839 a idea in his pocket, and the big break in 136 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:15.399 the case came fairly quickly when a taxi cab driver 137 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:18.639 from the city of Rochester, a guy named Charles Shearer, 138 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:21.800 called up police headquarters and said he thought he might 139 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:24.720 have given the victim and his killers a ride out 140 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:29.000 Scottsville Road as far as the Valentine Bridge. Balentin Bridge 141 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:31.639 was known as the Balentine Bridge before Valentine Road was 142 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:35.440 named Valentine Road. The road was named after the bridge. 143 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:38.720 Sheriff's detectives picked up Shearer at his home and took 144 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:41.159 him to the morgue. They showed him the body. He 145 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:43.120 went and said, yep, that was the guy in the 146 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:47.919 cab and apparently must have been some face intact and 147 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:50.320 with him during the ride, he said was a young couple, 148 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:53.200 there was a man, there was the victim, and the 149 00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:57.679 victim was handcuffed to a young woman. They asked him 150 00:08:57.720 --> 00:08:59.320 if he had any clue as to the identity of 151 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:03.000 the killer cup, and he said, well, he overheard them 152 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:06.120 talking about a man named Arnold who lived on North 153 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:10.639 Washington Street in the city. So that info led to 154 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:15.360 the arrest of Jimmy and Pearl Odell, and they were newlyweds. 155 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:19.639 Pearl was still a teenager, Jimmy was in his early twenties. 156 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:24.320 Pearl had been on her own since she was fourteen. 157 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:29.320 She grew up in Pennsylvania, and when she was just 158 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:32.639 a teenager, her dad lost an arm in a mining 159 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:36.120 accident and was unable to provide for his family, so 160 00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:39.759 she took off on her own defend for herself. Imagine 161 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:44.159 this in nineteen twenty and in nineteeneen it's happened. So 162 00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:48.960 Pearl has a strong sense of survival and has no 163 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:52.000 doubt relied on the kindnesses of strangers to get ahead. 164 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:57.240 Well anyway, investigators learned that the name of the victim 165 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:01.840 was Edward Knipe. That's spelled k n e i P. 166 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:05.120 You know, keep going neep, But we know it's Nipe 167 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:08.600 because at the time people would often mispronounce it as night, 168 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:14.120 like a knight of shining armor. And he was a 169 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:19.279 man who had before Pearl and Jimmy met taken Pearl's virginity, 170 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:24.879 or so she claimed. Pearl had a reputation for telling 171 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:28.720 a tall tale now and again. And Pearl told her 172 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:32.480 husband that Knipe had drugged her chocolates. He gave her 173 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:35.519 a Christmas present a box of chocolates, drugged the chocolates, 174 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:40.440 and raped her while she was unconscious. Well, that news 175 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:44.240 just ate at Jimmy O'Dell. He was a bit of 176 00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:49.320 a hothead to begin with. He'd been he'd left the 177 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:55.159 service because of the mental problems, had anger issues. But 178 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:57.759 he stewed on this for a long time and came 179 00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:00.919 up with a plant. He was going to kidnap Knipe 180 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:04.600 and take both Knipe and his wife out into the country, 181 00:11:04.879 --> 00:11:08.519 where he would give Pearl an opportunity to punish Knipe 182 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:12.360 for having raped her. Her web I thought was going 183 00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:12.799 to be an a. 184 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:19.240 Yes, Michael, you're talking about how his plan tell us 185 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:23.519 how on earth he could You talk about the amount 186 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:27.480 of deputy badges that were handed out save for by 187 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:31.039 the former sheriff. Tell us about more about this plan 188 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:34.879 and this audacious plan, how he pulled it off. 189 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:42.480 Well, he apparently the previous sheriff there had been strikes, 190 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:47.399 labor unions had gone on strike, and the previous sheriff 191 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:54.279 had deputized a large number of men to handle any 192 00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:58.799 riots that there might be. So there were deputy badges 193 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:01.320 floating around Rochester so that you could get for cheap. 194 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:04.840 Then somebody would blend you one if you needed to 195 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:09.000 pretend you had some authority for any reason. So Odell 196 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:14.480 has one of these badges, and he buys a pair 197 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:21.559 of handcuffs, and then he goes to Knipe's workplace, flashes 198 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:26.720 the badge, says, you know, the police or Monroe County sheriff, 199 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:32.519 whichever it was, and they bring they bring Nipe out 200 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:35.360 to him, and he says, oh, you're coming with me, buddy, 201 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:40.840 And he then takes Nipe to the homie lives in 202 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:45.559 with his with his bride and his stepfather and stepmother 203 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:52.399 who been basically his parents, and he makes Knipe confess 204 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.519 to to raping Pearl. Although Knipe never admits that he 205 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:03.320 drugged her, he seems to imply that it was consensual, 206 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:06.840 although certainly statutory since she was I think sixteen at 207 00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:10.559 the time. And then he puts the two of them 208 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:12.399 in the car and they're going to head out to 209 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:15.960 the country to so that Pearl will get be given 210 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:19.519 an opportunity to punish this guy. But his car breaks 211 00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:25.559 down and he ends up getting a cab to take 212 00:13:25.639 --> 00:13:29.519 him out as far as Mosquito Point Road in Sconso Road, 213 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:34.799 and that that's, of course, how he gets caught, is 214 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:39.799 that the cabby remembers who he is. So yeah, the 215 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:43.279 Pearl Pearl brings along with her because she's been told 216 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:46.000 that she's going to be given this opportunity, and I 217 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:48.720 think she realizes and I believe this to be true. 218 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:50.600 I think that if Pearl had said, no, I'm not 219 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:54.200 going to hurt him, I can't hurt anybody, that Odell 220 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:58.039 would have killed them both as sort of an honor killed. 221 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:01.799 So she has this eighteen inch file, and the file 222 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:05.000 he's described as various in various ways, and there's no 223 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:09.720 photos of it, but Odell's stepmom says that she used 224 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:12.960 to use it to cut ham, although I guess maybe 225 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.480 to make hash or something, and O'Dell himself says he 226 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:20.320 used it to help change a tire. So it's hard 227 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:22.360 to imagine a tool that could used for both of 228 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:26.120 those things. But an eighteen inch file, I think we 229 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:30.879 can imagine. And they go out to the spot near 230 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:36.639 the near the the trestle and Knipe is handcuffed to 231 00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:40.440 a tree and Jimmy says, okay, Pearl, go at it, 232 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:47.240 and she starts taking the file to Knipe's head and 233 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:51.039 once she gets started, she decides she kind of likes it. 234 00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:55.480 And next thing you know, they're going to have to 235 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:57.360 kill the guy because he has no skin left on 236 00:14:57.399 --> 00:15:04.519 his head. So anyway, the car and the resulting trial 237 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:08.200 has to be one of the most bizarre, some of 238 00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:11.480 the most bizarre in Monroe County history. They were tried 239 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:16.399 one at a time, and these are the days before yeah, 240 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:19.320 I think even radio that you had to wait for 241 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:23.559 the newspaper to get the news. So people blocked to 242 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:26.559 the courthouse. You know, you had to show up at 243 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:28.480 two in the morning to get a seat in the courtroom. 244 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:30.919 And by the end, by the time they're waiting for 245 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:35.720 the jurors to come back with verdicts, there were crowds 246 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:38.639 of thousands of people outside the courthouse, shutting down traffic, 247 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:42.720 people were trying to peek into the into the jurors room. 248 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:49.759 Just mayhem and you know things that the one moment 249 00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:53.679 in the in the trial that really almost starts the 250 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:58.080 riot is that Pearl announces while on the stand that 251 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:04.159 she is pregnant, and that's it. That's it takes a 252 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:06.679 long time for the judge to get to get order 253 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:07.639 in the court after that. 254 00:16:09.559 --> 00:16:13.440 There are different versions as this story progresses and as 255 00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:18.120 you have Lao for the reader. At first, it sounds 256 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:23.080 much simpler there she tells her husband that this person 257 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:28.919 has defiled her, and but we hear different details. In fact, 258 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:34.360 there's brought up a trial when they testify that we're 259 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:38.720 talking a little bit more complicated situation because she said 260 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:41.240 he had promised to marry her and there were plans 261 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:44.360 for their marriage. Oh, it was a little bit more 262 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:48.120 to the story. And as the trial. At the trial 263 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:54.120 you say that everybody wanted to witness this. Women especially 264 00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:58.320 were enamored by this incredible thing. The spectators, it was 265 00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:00.720 a circus like atmosphere. 266 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:04.480 Well, it's an amazing insight into what it was like 267 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:08.160 to be a woman on her own in nineteen twenty. 268 00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:12.240 I mean, if we're supposed to believe everything that Pearl says, 269 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:19.599 then she is roofied, raped and when she wakes up, 270 00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:23.559 she's okay with it as long as the guy promises 271 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:28.200 to take care of her from men are sure, it's 272 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:33.960 hard to imagine a situation like that today. Although desperate, 273 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:39.039 we'll do desperate things. Uh, it's. 274 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:41.160 Yeah. 275 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:45.720 In fact, she gets her reputation for telling tall tales 276 00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:49.240 by going around telling people that she did marry Knipe 277 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:55.200 and that they went on a honeymoon together. It also 278 00:17:55.279 --> 00:18:00.559 comes out in the trial that she and O'Dell at 279 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:03.799 first she doesn't want to marry Odell because she's not 280 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:07.240 a virgin, and he keeps saying, oh no, that's okay, 281 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.359 we can get married anyway. But they lived together and 282 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:15.279 presumably have relations for weeks before they get married again. 283 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:20.720 Just scandal, unbelievable scandal, and that's these are these are 284 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:24.319 the sort of little details that made the made the 285 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:29.240 crime so popular. I mean, trial of the century in 286 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:32.480 Monroe County. Pearl was still a teenager, and she set 287 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:38.119 demurely in the courtroom with a pretty hat on. It 288 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:39.599 would make it would make a great movie. 289 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:44.640 Dan One issue that I thought was very interesting too, 290 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:47.079 was the big break they got was the cabby coming 291 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:49.440 forward and saying, yeah, I transported these people and I 292 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:51.279 dropped them off in the middle of nowhere here this 293 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:55.400 Mosquito Point road. But the idea that he said that 294 00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:59.799 they were handcuffed together makes the story and all subsequent 295 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.960 is much different than they went together in the car, 296 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:07.680 but warn't handcuffed together, so lends credence to that original 297 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.400 theory that he was taking them both out there. 298 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:17.000 So yeah, I think so and h and it's it's 299 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:22.359 interesting that they're they're not terribly lovey dovey. During the 300 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:27.000 trial process, at one point, you know, she says that 301 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:29.640 she'll she'll stick with him even if he goes away 302 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:35.400 to prison, but we're not we're not sure she's she's 303 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:39.039 already thinking in terms of her own survival at that point. 304 00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:42.960 And during her trial, he's, well, he's already sing sing 305 00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:46.000 for the first time. She starts to talk about Jimmy 306 00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:47.519 as an abusive husband. 307 00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:51.680 That's right, which tind to. 308 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:54.039 Say, which we could we could have figured out from 309 00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:58.920 the cab driver's testimony. Obviously, the way to do it 310 00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:05.160 is to handcuff night too. Odell and there's no reason 311 00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:10.680 to handcuff Pearl, and Pearl's going to be less able 312 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:15.319 to stop Nighte if he decides to be aggressive. It 313 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:17.279 only makes sense if he's taking them out there to 314 00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:18.240 punish them both. 315 00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:25.079 What's fascinating too in nineteen twenty yet or even twenty 316 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:29.119 twenty the idea of the savagery, the brutality that she 317 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:34.519 inflicted upon this former Well, this her rapist, she claims, 318 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:38.799 and evidence that that would be. But again the circumstances. 319 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:43.559 People were fascinated by this case, but they were especially 320 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:47.440 fascinated those aspects of it, how much she had done 321 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:53.440 and why. And tell us more about the reaction by 322 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:55.960 media about this case. 323 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:03.319 Well, it was splash front page headlines in the Rochester 324 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:08.039 Democrat and Chronicle and Times Union for a year. 325 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:08.440 And a half. 326 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:11.640 I just say it was it was like the OJ 327 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:15.319 trial of its day because it had everything. I mean, 328 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:20.240 it had had extreme violence, It had, you know, non 329 00:21:20.359 --> 00:21:26.240 marital sex, it had it had a woman who turned vicious, 330 00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:30.400 but perhaps because she thought that if she didn't turn vicious, 331 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:34.319 she herself would be harmed. It So it was complex 332 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:40.640 in that way, psychologically complex, and Pearl's kind of cute. 333 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:44.240 You know she's she looks good at a picture in 334 00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:49.400 the newspaper, although she was never eager to have her 335 00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:55.319 photo taken. I think the only the only photos I've 336 00:21:55.319 --> 00:22:00.920 seen two photos of her, and they were reused. But 337 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:03.279 one looks like a portrait that might have been taken 338 00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:06.680 on a formal occasion, and the other is a candid 339 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:13.240 a profile. And I know that when she was photographed 340 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:18.519 and photographers swarmed her later under different circumstances, she would 341 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:19.359 put her hands. 342 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:19.799 Over her face. 343 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:26.519 She's not eager to be famous in that particular way. 344 00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:33.200 Story. Let's talk about another story, and I'm hopefully I 345 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:39.839 don't mispronounce this one. Jean Ken Ye. 346 00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:41.319 Oh yeah, Well, see, your guess is as good as mark. 347 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:44.480 I think it's a pen yet, n Ye, I think yeah, 348 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:45.359 I think I think you. 349 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:45.880 Got it right. 350 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:52.000 Hell else, Well, the story starts in a way that 351 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:55.000 it's kind of warms my heart in a weird way. 352 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.799 It's the story of a forty year old odd minister 353 00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:07.119 and his much younger wife who's been abused and ends 354 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:09.680 up dead and floating in the Genesee River with a 355 00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:13.000 couple of bullets in her right, across the river from 356 00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:16.599 where I lived, and but that the thing that I 357 00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:19.759 like about this is that the body was found by 358 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:24.559 a group of children. A guy named Leslie McMahon and 359 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:28.960 a couple other kids saw the body, and they're. 360 00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:29.640 All still around. 361 00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:33.039 They're all still alive, and I got to talk to them. 362 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:38.400 They agree very little on what exactly happened before and 363 00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:40.759 after the discovery of the body, as you might expect 364 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.000 memory seventy one years after the factor, they're a little vague. 365 00:23:46.279 --> 00:23:51.519 But we went with Leslie McMahon's story because it agreed 366 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:57.599 most with what the contemporaneous reports said. And he also 367 00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:00.799 testified at three trials, so we're pretty sure he's the 368 00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:03.400 kid who found the body. And he's ten years old. 369 00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:06.160 He went to Valentine's schools in school I went to 370 00:24:06.200 --> 00:24:07.839 from first to fourth. I think we had some of 371 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:13.400 the same teachers. And he said he saw something in 372 00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:16.440 the river that caught his eye. He's fishing on a 373 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:19.599 Saturday morning, and he thought it was a dressmaker's dummy, 374 00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:25.799 and he did stopped fishing because his dad wanted to 375 00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:27.160 know if he wanted to go to the store with him, 376 00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.079 and he said sure, packed up his gear, went to 377 00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:34.279 the store with dad, and came back and there were 378 00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:37.759 police cars there, and he immediately knew then that what 379 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:41.519 he had seen was not a dressmaker's dummy, and he 380 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:43.920 told police that he had been there and seen the 381 00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:46.799 body at nine p thirty that morning, and that meant 382 00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:48.799 he was the first to see it until he had that. 383 00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:53.799 So yeah, So snag down a log was the body 384 00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:56.759 of a dark haired woman. She was wearing a white 385 00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:01.000 silk dress, faded pink slip edge, with the black bra 386 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:05.400 and pink rayon panties. She'd been shot twice with a 387 00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:08.960 twenty five automatic pistol and one of them went through 388 00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:14.519 her heart. Nobody knew who she was. Sheriff Albert Skinner. 389 00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:17.720 He was sheriff in Monroe County for forty some years. 390 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:22.000 He's now appearing in for the fourth time. In one 391 00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:26.559 of my books, he invited people to come down to 392 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:28.759 the morgue to look at the body to see if 393 00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:31.759 anybody could identify her, because he says that once we 394 00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:34.400 figure out who she is, we're going to know who 395 00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:38.279 the killer is. And as he so often was, Sheriff 396 00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:39.240 Skinner was right. 397 00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:41.160 Now. 398 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:45.119 Six hundred people show up to view the body and 399 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:47.440 not a single one has any clue who she is, 400 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:52.680 but because the body was found only hours after it 401 00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:58.079