Speaker 1: I'm out on the lake and it was absolutely dead calm.
Speaker 1: I mean, there wasn't a wrinkle on the water, there
Speaker 1: was not a puff in the air. Normally there's a
Speaker 1: crows and other birds and other situations making noise, but
Speaker 1: nothing was going on out of nowhere in the big timber.
Speaker 1: We're talking old growth, big stuff, a tree and crashing
Speaker 1: down for no reason, absolutely no reason that I could
Speaker 1: figure out, and kind of made me wonder what the
Speaker 1: heck was going on there, And I started to get
Speaker 1: out of the canoe, and you know, this is not
Speaker 1: very smart. I think, I think I'll just let this
Speaker 1: situation timmer and go the other way. And I've had
Speaker 1: that premonition a couple of times, and I'm kind of
Speaker 1: wondering if those are the kind of warnings or situations
Speaker 1: that had come across. On a different level, it says, Jack,
Speaker 1: you need, you need to just go home and be
Speaker 1: done with it.
Speaker 2: I'd like to welcome Jack to the show. Jack has
Speaker 2: been featured a couple times on the Salish Sasquatch channel
Speaker 2: good friends that we both have Jonathan and Sarah Brown
Speaker 2: great channel. Check it out if you haven't already, and
Speaker 2: they connected us and Jack was gracious enough to accept
Speaker 2: my invitation to come on and share his story and
Speaker 2: some of the stories he's heard along the way in
Speaker 2: this crazy world of Bigfoot. Jack, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: How are you.
Speaker 1: I'm doing fine and thank you. Appreciate the welcome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. So why don't you get things starting
Speaker 2: off by just telling us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm one of them older guys. I'm seventy nine,
Speaker 1: and if you count the gestation period, i'm eighty. You
Speaker 1: get the idea I'm getting up there. I've had a
Speaker 1: world and a lifetime of experiences and it's been fun,
Speaker 1: been a lot of fun. And my sweetheart and I
Speaker 1: Arla is her name. I know there's another Arla in
Speaker 1: the Bigfoot mix out there, but anyway, we've been together
Speaker 1: for oh man, fifty six years now. Oh wow, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the same person. Amazing. That's a credit to her, not
Speaker 1: to me. When I came home from Vietnam and sixty
Speaker 1: eight a seven. Rather, I courted my sweetheart and we
Speaker 1: got married in nineteen sixty eight, sixty seven home, sixty eight,
Speaker 1: got married and started on that life's journey and it's
Speaker 1: been good, been very good for me. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's germane to the conversation, but I became a believer.
Speaker 1: And I'm not just a Bigfoot believer. I was there
Speaker 1: before that, but Christian, and so I've kind of patterned
Speaker 1: my life around that, that philosophy, and that that's part
Speaker 1: of what it takes to be who I am. Way back,
Speaker 1: I remember nineteen cent burgers, fries and cokes, and nineteen
Speaker 1: cent gas gallon gas. So that's that's almost just right
Speaker 1: fresh off the arc, you know what I mean. We
Speaker 1: raised a couple of boys, and one of them is
Speaker 1: an adopted son from Vietnam, half Vietnam Asian and half
Speaker 1: adventurous soldier. Good men. They're just good men. And it's
Speaker 1: been a pleasure to have them. And and when I
Speaker 1: started on the the bigfoot thing a little later in
Speaker 1: life in a sense, because you know how it is,
Speaker 1: you're raising a family and trying to make things work,
Speaker 1: and you haven't got time for a lot of the
Speaker 1: extraneous things that you'd like to pursue. I didn't even
Speaker 1: know I like to pursue them originally, except that in
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two. Now that goes back previous. My aunt
Speaker 1: and her folks had the Port Bragg incident we call it,
Speaker 1: and we'll get into that here in a couple of minutes.
Speaker 1: But anyway, that's where that's where I've come from, as
Speaker 1: far as that part of my life is concerned, been good.
Speaker 1: I don't complain. I've been a hunter all my life
Speaker 1: up until the last few years, and I can no
Speaker 1: longer hunt, get out there like I want to and
Speaker 1: do those things. And I find it very interesting in
Speaker 1: one respect. For all the time that I've been out hunting,
Speaker 1: there have been a few times when something told me
Speaker 1: don't go here, and I don't belong here, and I'm
Speaker 1: not afraid of bear cougars and all the other paraphernalia
Speaker 1: that lives out there. But after some rethinking and some
Speaker 1: adding in and out of different situations, I've come to
Speaker 1: the conclusion that I've been a lot closer to mister
Speaker 1: bigbut than I realize. And of course I have got
Speaker 1: all kinds of stories that I've collected over the years
Speaker 1: and that type of thing. So yeah, I've been around
Speaker 1: that rascal and I know of him well. I don't
Speaker 1: know if anybody really knows the guy. I want to
Speaker 1: start right out by saying that I go back and
Speaker 1: forth on whether it's just another animal or if it's
Speaker 1: what is Meldrum would say, a relic commented or something
Speaker 1: in between. I don't know that any of that has
Speaker 1: really been nailed down, so I kind of go back
Speaker 1: and forth. I want to insult anybody. I just am
Speaker 1: what I am, and I say what I say, and
Speaker 1: it comes out that way.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm the same way. I think anybody that
Speaker 2: really has looked into this at any great depth and
Speaker 2: spent time doing it kind of goes back and forth
Speaker 2: between different possibilities all the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right. You know, I've got a list
Speaker 1: of people that I whose books I've read, and this
Speaker 1: is just a small part of a long list. But
Speaker 1: I started out with John Green, and then Steinberg, Jeff
Speaker 1: Mildram for sure, Bender Nagel, Christopher Murphy, Kranz Burn, Michael
Speaker 1: I mean, Robert Michael Pyle. He's more of a local
Speaker 1: guy here. And then lately I finished up with Matt
Speaker 1: Pruitt on his phenomenal Sasquatch. And I've got to say
Speaker 1: that there's only two or three books that I would
Speaker 1: hold up as stellar accounts of things going on and
Speaker 1: Matt Really he really shines for me. I really like
Speaker 1: the way he put things and and kind of nails
Speaker 1: it for me. I'm at this juncture until I know different.
Speaker 1: I consider Mishter Bigfoot a biological entity, just like I am.
Speaker 1: Some people call me more animal than I need to be,
Speaker 1: but so that fit's well. But anyway, so I treend
Speaker 1: to separate the phenomenal with the biological. And I know
Speaker 1: there's parts of there's people that are solidly in other camp,
Speaker 1: and I think it's great, go ahead, you know, bring
Speaker 1: the evidence. We'll put it in one big bucket, come
Speaker 1: out with what he really is eventually. So what I
Speaker 1: collect and then we'll get into it here. What I
Speaker 1: collect over the years are stories that and I call
Speaker 1: them accounts, where their stories of relationships that people have had, good, bad,
Speaker 1: or otherwise with mister Bigfoot. And I've had the privilege
Speaker 1: of starting out on the positive in other words, I
Speaker 1: didn't have any negative problems as far as big Foot
Speaker 1: or concerns. Some people do. I mean they start out,
Speaker 1: they started, the first words out of their mouth is
Speaker 1: I don't believe it. It's a myth and all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. And that's okay. That's what they want.
Speaker 1: But I started out with my aunt's folks, and that's
Speaker 1: where we'll get into this. And just a second here,
Speaker 1: my aunt's folks their accounting of of in nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: two Bigfoot, and I think, so far as I'm concerned,
Speaker 1: it's an account of major importance, but not well and
Speaker 1: I don't want to say advertised, but we're not well
Speaker 1: known up and down the Bigfoot community. So there'll be
Speaker 1: my opportunity to share and hopefully we'll get somewhere with this.
Speaker 2: You started at the position of you personally knew family
Speaker 2: members that had encountered these things.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: I was raised by my great grandparents in anything that
Speaker 2: they would have told me was gospel, absolutely.
Speaker 1: True, the Book of Jack.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's obviously a much different position than starting
Speaker 2: out as a non believer in encountering one of those things.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. And over the year I started in sixty two,
Speaker 1: I was sixteen. So over the years, I've really heard
Speaker 1: not one argument to say that they aren't here. In fact,
Speaker 1: it's harder to prove the negative than it ever would
Speaker 1: be the positive. So, like Kranz, a global Kranz said,
Speaker 1: he says, if there's only one and we know it
Speaker 1: for sure. I don't care how many accounts or history
Speaker 1: or experiences people have had. He's real and that's where
Speaker 1: I start too, So it makes it sure, makes it easier.
Speaker 1: I guess I'll start with the nineteen sixty two one
Speaker 1: because that's the anchor point for me. Is one of
Speaker 1: the most I think interesting stories that I have out there,
Speaker 1: and I just happened to be privileged to be in
Speaker 1: the family when it was told. So I'm going to
Speaker 1: start out with reading a book. Just happened to pick
Speaker 1: it up last night. It's a book by Larry Canute
Speaker 1: of Alaska Bear Tales. But he's got one line in
Speaker 1: here that really kind of fits a situation that I
Speaker 1: think is appropriate for all of us, no matter where
Speaker 1: we're at in the Bigfoot community, and it says, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: sensationalistic accounts of man bear accounters are often the public's
Speaker 1: main source of information on bruins. Not only are these
Speaker 1: accounts exaggerated, but they instill unnecessary fears about the wilderness
Speaker 1: outdoor experience. Now, if you transpose that and put a
Speaker 1: big Foot in there, I think that fits. We have
Speaker 1: an overlay of strange and weird stuff going on out there,
Speaker 1: and we look, we look at big Foot rather through
Speaker 1: that limbs, And I've had to a couple of times
Speaker 1: back up and say, what am I looking at? What
Speaker 1: am I thinking here? As far as Bigfoot is concerned
Speaker 1: in that you, is he really that mister ferocious wants
Speaker 1: to rip our head off? Well, there's I'm sure there's
Speaker 1: a few out there that would do that. But in
Speaker 1: the main, if indeed they were as violent and capable
Speaker 1: as we are often led to believe, I don't think
Speaker 1: there be very many of us left.
Speaker 2: If that is the case, if they are predators, so
Speaker 2: to speak. Yeah, the amount of people that have gone
Speaker 2: out into the woods by theirselves provoking these things, as researchers,
Speaker 2: as investigators out there specifically looking for Bigfoot, going to
Speaker 2: areas where they've been seen, trying to elicit some sort
Speaker 2: of interaction with them. Nobody's ever been harmed or turned
Speaker 2: up missing. Everybody's come home save for the two hunters
Speaker 2: recently in Washington that you know succumbed to the elements,
Speaker 2: and a few stories here and there, But for the
Speaker 2: most part, you don't really have any stories like that.
Speaker 1: That's true, It's absolutely true. And if you start on
Speaker 1: that premise that they're not they're not that they're portrayed
Speaker 1: to be, and go at it from a different perspective.
Speaker 1: I think we're going to make a lot more headway
Speaker 1: in the final assessment rather of what they are and
Speaker 1: that type of thing. And this story here will we'll
Speaker 1: shed some light on it as well. So with all
Speaker 1: of that, nineteen sixty two, it was February. It was
Speaker 1: a a rainy kind of black on again, off again night,
Speaker 1: and is the setting for in Fort Bragg, California. And
Speaker 1: there I know that you're the Fort Bragg back easter wise,
Speaker 1: but this is Fort Bragg, California, in the northern side
Speaker 1: of the state. Now I was sixteen when I first
Speaker 1: heard it. I never wrote a thing down. I just
Speaker 1: listened to my aunt's folks story. They came from down
Speaker 1: there up here to Washington State to visit, and they
Speaker 1: brought their story with them and the account with them,
Speaker 1: and they sat down in our living room and went
Speaker 1: through it. And the only person that wasn't there was
Speaker 1: Uncle Bob, great Uncle Bob, I'll call him. But everybody
Speaker 1: else was there. And of course I'm sitting there a
Speaker 1: sixteen year old with a slack jaw looking and listening
Speaker 1: to everything that's going on and absorbing all of this
Speaker 1: as much as possible. So my account might differ a
Speaker 1: little bit from what John Green wrote in his book,
Speaker 1: and he got into some of that on page thirteen.
Speaker 1: I think it is Bud Nanjie Jenkins was their name,
Speaker 1: and Bob I think McKendrick was his was Bob's name.
Speaker 1: I don't know why that's so, but anyway, so there's
Speaker 1: that and Bob. Bud and Bob were truck drivers, long
Speaker 1: haul truck drivers, and they would leave from l A
Speaker 1: and travel all the way up to Canada, and the
Speaker 1: midpoint for them at that time was right around Fort Bragg,
Speaker 1: So they would swing in at night and camp out
Speaker 1: for a few hours before they jumped in the rig
Speaker 1: and went north or vice or south, vice versa, depending
Speaker 1: on which direction they were going. And this particular night
Speaker 1: and Bud or rather Bob, are you confused yet.
Speaker 2: We'll try to keep track of it, okay.
Speaker 1: For Bob would sleep on a couch on the front
Speaker 1: in the front room because they didn't have a special
Speaker 1: room for him and everything else like that. It was
Speaker 1: just a little kind of a bungalow house with a
Speaker 1: fence around it and a chicken coop and whatnot in
Speaker 1: the backyard, and anyway, he would sleep on there, and
Speaker 1: then in the middle of the night, Angie Bud's wife
Speaker 1: would she had to get up go to the bathroom.
Speaker 1: And apparently the clouds were sifting in and out, and
Speaker 1: there was a moon kind of in between, and she's
Speaker 1: going through the living room toward the toward the bathroom.
Speaker 1: She looked out her front room window and here's this bear.
Speaker 1: She was convinced it was a bear at the time,
Speaker 1: and crawled over the fence and was getting in her garden.
Speaker 1: And if you know anything about bears and ladies and gardens,
Speaker 1: you know that bear was in trouble anyway, so she asked.
Speaker 1: She ran back to the bedroom and told Bud to
Speaker 1: get the shotgun. There's a bear in my garden. And
Speaker 1: so he's he's looking for the shotgun, which she had moved,
Speaker 1: and he then has to look for the shelves, which
Speaker 1: they never did find. And oh, I wish I'm thankful
Speaker 1: for quite frankly, but in the hubub and the chaos,
Speaker 1: Bob got up and said, what's going on, and of
Speaker 1: course she told him, and he said, oh, my goodness,
Speaker 1: I'll just run out of her and yell at it.
Speaker 1: It'll go away, no big deal. So he goes out
Speaker 1: through the front room door and to do what he
Speaker 1: needs to do. In the meantime, Bud comes out and says,
Speaker 1: where's Bob. He's down around the corner of the house
Speaker 1: or something. He's yelling at the bear. So they both
Speaker 1: walked up to the front room door and there's a
Speaker 1: screen door, kind of an alcove type of thing. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it was the front door, and they look down the
Speaker 1: sidewalk and here's Bob. He's on his hands and knees,
Speaker 1: crawling back into the house. And right behind him, literally
Speaker 1: right behind him, was this tall, eight foot tall bigfoot.
Speaker 1: Now they didn't know that by name, what a bigfoot was.
Speaker 1: They had never encountered such a thing, knew nothing about it.
Speaker 1: It was all brand new experience, absolutely new. And but
Speaker 1: Bob is crawling in, he crawls in the door of
Speaker 1: the house, and as he gets there, Bud and Angie,
Speaker 1: of course, they're in shock themselves. They don't know what's
Speaker 1: going on. They both are hanging onto the screen door
Speaker 1: and they want to shut shut the screen door. Well,
Speaker 1: the bigfoot sasquatch, whatever you want to call him. He
Speaker 1: walks right up there. He was there, and he was
Speaker 1: bent over to look inside at the place. And the
Speaker 1: doorframes on those were seventy eight inches I think standard.
Speaker 1: I you know, it might be an insure too different,
Speaker 1: but that's pretty standard. So it had to bend over
Speaker 1: quite a ways to look in. And they're looking at
Speaker 1: each other across the space of a couple of feet,
Speaker 1: I mean they're they're right there where they can count
Speaker 1: the cavities in his teeth, and and the the animal
Speaker 1: had that look on his face of just super curios
Speaker 1: curious curiosity all over him and going through the motions
Speaker 1: there and bent over and everything else like that. Well
Speaker 1: at that particular point, but and Angie did weren't curious
Speaker 1: at all. They just were away and their curiosity was gone.
Speaker 1: They're trying to shut the door and it wouldn't shut,
Speaker 1: and they didn't or the screener wasn't shut. They couldn't
Speaker 1: understand what was going on, and they're in a state
Speaker 1: of shock and any number of things of that nature.
Speaker 1: And so pretty soon they got wise and they just
Speaker 1: backed away and shut the main door. And after they
Speaker 1: shut the main door, they the animals stood there for
Speaker 1: a couple of seconds, a few minutes whatever. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't, I don't. I didn't have a stopwatch on it.
Speaker 1: I wasn't there. But then it turned and left and
Speaker 1: it faded off into the dark, and it was gone.
Speaker 1: Well it took They called the They called the sheriff
Speaker 1: out of fair, out of Fort Bragg, and told them
Speaker 1: what had gone on. And that was about four in
Speaker 1: the morning, I guess all this transpired. And so there
Speaker 1: they're waiting there for the sheriff to come out, which
Speaker 1: what didn't take very long, and it was fading to day.
Speaker 1: I was beginning to get daylight anyway, and poor poor
Speaker 1: Uncle Bob, he couldn't hold a cup of coffee for
Speaker 1: about half an hour. She shaken so bad. And anyway,
Speaker 1: they came out. They took some plaster casts of the
Speaker 1: feet and took the information down, and and this that
Speaker 1: and the other thing. And I'm not one hundred percent
Speaker 1: sure they believed everything. Could it'd be pretty hard not
Speaker 1: to believe some family like that caught in that situation.
Speaker 1: I mean, you may not know what to take make
Speaker 1: of it, but believing that they had the encounter was
Speaker 1: very real and and uh that type of thing. So
Speaker 1: within a day or two or something, I don't know
Speaker 1: exact exact time frame, but there was a professor Edward
Speaker 1: I think is his name, out of Ashland, Oregon, which
Speaker 1: is you know, due north there a bit, and I
Speaker 1: think he was an art professor. Some of those things
Speaker 1: are very vague, but they're known, and if you want
Speaker 1: more information, if you want specific information, you could get
Speaker 1: hold of Daniel Perez of Bigfoot Times or Cliff Barrickman.
Speaker 1: They've got they've got a copy of the handprint inside
Speaker 1: the museum there. I've seen it three different times. But anyway,
Speaker 1: he came down and he traced he traced the hand
Speaker 1: on the that was left the print that was left
Speaker 1: on the door sill. It's pretty mighty enough enough what
Speaker 1: do you call it dirt on the hand of the
Speaker 1: print to make a pretty good print out of it,
Speaker 1: and from the heel by the wrist to the top
Speaker 1: of the farthest finger, who was eleven and a half
Speaker 1: or eleven and three quarters long.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard that they have some massive hands, and
Speaker 1: I believe it. But anyway, that's that's the length of
Speaker 1: the hand and that was impressive enough all by itself.
Speaker 1: So anyway that that happened, and I've been told that
Speaker 1: somebody said, well, they tracked it for five miles. Well,
Speaker 1: if you've been been listening to any of the Bigfoot accounts,
Speaker 1: tracking a Bigfoot for five miles in anything but snow
Speaker 1: is just about an absolute impossibility. They may have found
Speaker 1: track another track somewhere five miles out, but they didn't
Speaker 1: track it that if, I don't think. But anyway, that's
Speaker 1: the upshot of that whole situation. And it'd been written
Speaker 1: up and talked about, and I listened. I listened to
Speaker 1: it with rapt attention.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you, I bet what were they there to
Speaker 2: tell the story? Specifically? Is that why they were visiting.
Speaker 1: They didn't come up there saying, let me, let's go
Speaker 1: talk to the folks, I mean my folks, But they
Speaker 1: were in They came up because my aunt and my
Speaker 1: uncle uncle Ollie, they lived close to us up here
Speaker 1: when they came up to visit. And it wasn't very
Speaker 1: long afterwards that they they came up and made the
Speaker 1: extra extra special to come over to the house and
Speaker 1: tell the story. And very very glad that they did,
Speaker 1: because that's been kind of a high water mark in
Speaker 1: our in our family.
Speaker 2: I can imagine. So how did they how did they
Speaker 2: present it to you? And because back then, I mean
Speaker 2: like like you're saying Bigfoot wasn't even a thing yet.
Speaker 1: No, well it was getting to be a thing obviously.
Speaker 1: But yes, they said, we had an account, we had
Speaker 1: this is what happened. And somebody had told them by
Speaker 1: that time that that this was supposedly a real thing
Speaker 1: in California, and this that and the other thing. So
Speaker 1: they were getting educated real quick. Let's put that one.
Speaker 1: I bet yeah. And one of the things I forgot
Speaker 1: to well, I didn't forget. I actually held back on
Speaker 1: telling Jonathan and Sarah about this part because I really
Speaker 1: wasn't sure of it myself. And that's when Bob went
Speaker 1: out to chase the bear off. He stuffed his face
Speaker 1: right in the chest of this animal.
Speaker 2: Ran right into it, and I thought, you know that
Speaker 2: I don't believe that.
Speaker 1: It's hard to believe. I mean that that's a little
Speaker 1: bit of hyperbole and this that and the other thing.
Speaker 1: But after I had the conversation with Jonathan and Sarah
Speaker 1: about what had happened, I made a phone call to
Speaker 1: one of my cousins of my aunt Shirley's son, and
Speaker 1: I asked him about that. I says, no, is that
Speaker 1: just add on? Is that hyperbole, drama whatever? He says, Oh, no,
Speaker 1: that actually happened. It's the real mac which is apparently
Speaker 1: one of the reasons that he he came crawling back.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think that between between that and
Speaker 1: the fact that the animal never never made a move
Speaker 1: that was it could have been construed as vicious or
Speaker 1: mad or mean or whatever, and it still had its
Speaker 1: presence of mind whatever that is, to come up to
Speaker 1: the door and look inside the house full of curiosity.
Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons that I am convinced they're
Speaker 1: not They're not what we think they are. There's there's
Speaker 1: there's a little bit more to them than that, and
Speaker 1: and I've always so anyway, they validated that, and I said,
Speaker 1: are you sure. He says, oh no, We've all talked
Speaker 1: about that exact same thing for years. And I said, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to let that information out. And but I
Speaker 1: didn't want to throw something out there that nobody would
Speaker 1: willing to buy into, you know what I mean, Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. I was looking for clarity, not chaos and
Speaker 1: the real as opposed to false. So all of that
Speaker 1: has to fit into that matrix of the of the
Speaker 1: story and what I would give or have given to
Speaker 1: been a little closer, And they have taken the time.
Speaker 1: Now today we use BFRO and other research people and
Speaker 1: they would ask different questions and they would ferret out
Speaker 1: different lines of inquiry and maybe add or subtract from
Speaker 1: the story in a different way. But that's the gist
Speaker 1: of the story as it was told to me. And
Speaker 1: I feel honored and complimented in a very real way
Speaker 1: that these folks that I know, and they weren't given
Speaker 1: to storytelling anyway. My aunt Surety says, now, Bud might
Speaker 1: exaggerate a little bit, but my mom she wouldn't. If
Speaker 1: it was black, it was black. If it was white,
Speaker 1: it was white, and there's nothing in between. So and
Speaker 1: she told the story just like the rest of them.
Speaker 1: And I will say that their eye size must have
Speaker 1: went up a little, yeah, I mean I would there
Speaker 1: may not have may not have been a good odor
Speaker 1: there for a while either. Well. The rest of that story,
Speaker 1: which rarely gets told hardly if at all, is that
Speaker 1: over the next couple of weeks, you know, things settled down,
Speaker 1: of course, and they saw the footprints in the garden
Speaker 1: and YadA, YadA, YadA. But over the next couple of
Speaker 1: weeks they but noticed that the dog food was going
Speaker 1: down way too fast. He had a fifty pound bag
Speaker 1: of dog food and opened the top of it and
Speaker 1: to feed the dogs. And again I don't know what
Speaker 1: the dog's response was to this crater around the place.
Speaker 1: I never heard anything about that, or if I did,
Speaker 1: I forgot, But anyway, that it was down to from
Speaker 1: a full open down to half and almost overnight, so
Speaker 1: that was very uncommon. And somebody else said, well, the
Speaker 1: bear could get in there or not bother anything. Well
Speaker 1: not really, a bear would just drew that stuff all
Speaker 1: over the place. I've hunted bear myself for years, and
Speaker 1: bear are not good housekeepers by any stretch of the imagination. Anyway,
Speaker 1: So there was that. And they also had on the
Speaker 1: as you walked in the door, there was a two
Speaker 1: by four part of the two by four structure they
Speaker 1: kept an egg carton and they would take eggs off
Speaker 1: the hands and put them in there, and if it
Speaker 1: was two or three eggs, they just leave it. When
Speaker 1: they got up to eight nine eggs, ten a dozen whatever.
Speaker 1: They would take that into the house and replace the
Speaker 1: egg carton. Well, they noticed that the bud went out
Speaker 1: one time and there was a half a dozen eggs
Speaker 1: in there, and he walked out to the next in
Speaker 1: there was none, I mean, yeah, none cleaned out. He
Speaker 1: kind of what was going on, But he looked around
Speaker 1: and there was no shells on the on the floor.
Speaker 1: The eggs were just missing vanished. As the time went on,
Speaker 1: I mean it was a short time. Within a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks, there was an occasional bigfoot track that they
Speaker 1: either hadn't noticed or showed up fresh. They weren't sure,
Speaker 1: So that that told them that whatever this critter was,
Speaker 1: he's hanging around a bit. Yeah, And and Angie because
Speaker 1: Shirley Aunt Shirley's mom, because she's there alone. She'd had enough.
Speaker 1: So they either I don't know if they rented, were
Speaker 1: renting the place or it bought it or whatever, but
Speaker 1: they they made an effort to get out of there
Speaker 1: and go somewhere else. And that was the end of
Speaker 1: that whole chapter. But I always thought that that was
Speaker 1: an interesting tag on to the to the original story.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of interesting details in that story.
Speaker 1: Oh boy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand if you don't know the answer to this,
Speaker 2: But do you happen to know what kind of produce
Speaker 2: was in the garden?
Speaker 1: Oh? It was. It's California, northern California still could end
Speaker 1: out towards the coast, so it could be just about anything.
Speaker 1: There could be every tomatoes, cabbage, just about anything, just
Speaker 1: about anything. I don't know anything about what they actually
Speaker 1: had in there, but that was part of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just curious about, you know what specifically
Speaker 2: it was after in the garden.
Speaker 1: I think it was just a pass through, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: know it was. The fence was I think I find
Speaker 1: I mistaken. The fence was like six feet tall of
Speaker 1: a regular seed board fence. Where it went over the
Speaker 1: top didn't go over. I don't know if it went
Speaker 1: over the top or not. That's a good question.
Speaker 2: So there's been situations, you know, and we'll get back
Speaker 2: to but I just want to take a break here
Speaker 2: for a second, because I've known people personally. A woman
Speaker 2: researcher down in Texas. Her husband at the time whenever
Speaker 2: I met her, was a long haul truck driver and
Speaker 2: Bigfoot was coming up around her house whenever he would
Speaker 2: leave town. That was something I was told and observed
Speaker 2: personally at a very early time whenever I got into Bigfoot.
Speaker 2: And over the years there's been numerous cases where for
Speaker 2: whatever reason, husband's gone for a while, no men are around,
Speaker 2: and Bigfoot starts coming up around the house. That's not
Speaker 2: something these people would have known about. That's not something
Speaker 2: you know that would really get picked up on all
Speaker 2: that much. But then you have a situation, like you're saying,
Speaker 2: where she was alone at the house a lot of time,
Speaker 2: and that might have made the bigfoot felm more secure
Speaker 2: about coming up that close to the house or whatever
Speaker 2: and taking advantage of like the dog food and the
Speaker 2: eggs in the garden and everything else. And then one
Speaker 2: of the first things that popped in my mind while
Speaker 2: you were telling the story was the Bigfoot's behavior, the
Speaker 2: curiosity and everything, and why would it act that way,
Speaker 2: and why was Uncle Bob crawling on his hands and
Speaker 2: knees and so running into it like that. It sounds
Speaker 2: totally believable because it explains those aspects of the story.
Speaker 2: It explains why he's on his knees like that, poor
Speaker 2: Uncle Bob. He explains why the Bigfoot might have followed
Speaker 2: him back to the house and been like, what is
Speaker 2: going on here? You know, a human just ran into me.
Speaker 2: One of those little hairless things just hit me.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's all just really fascinating. And to have heard
Speaker 2: that at the age of sixteen from your own family
Speaker 2: members sitting around like that, that must have been amazing.
Speaker 2: I can only imagine what was going through your head.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was amazing. John dropping quite frankly, and my
Speaker 1: step dad my mom at the time, and they well,
Speaker 1: it took till the time of their death. They always said, oh,
Speaker 1: I can't believe that. I can't believe that. I mean,
Speaker 1: when you get it stuck in your mind that that's
Speaker 1: what you're going to believe or not believe, that's you
Speaker 1: normally stay there, which is kind of unfortunate. Yea, my
Speaker 1: stepdad he lived in the woods all the time. I mean,
Speaker 1: he grew up in the woods, cut wood, did all
Speaker 1: kinds of things that and hunted. He was an extremely
Speaker 1: good hunter and that type of thing. And he said, oh,
Speaker 1: I've never had a problem, I've never had that kind
Speaker 1: of a situation. Well, I wonder how many times we
Speaker 1: just erased that out of our mind, even if we
Speaker 1: did have this situation, a strange noise, a tree being
Speaker 1: pushed over, a rock being thrown, and you don't know
Speaker 1: where it comes from, so you kind of dismiss it.
Speaker 1: You're thinking it must have fell off of overturned stump
Speaker 1: or any number of things.
Speaker 2: You know, sure it must to been this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. They make up their mind before they make
Speaker 1: up the finish out the information and so anyway, but
Speaker 1: I have been fortunate that when they told the story,
Speaker 1: I believe the story. I didn't. I didn't question it
Speaker 1: at all. But let me add a little bit to
Speaker 1: what you said, because I think that this is a
Speaker 1: fascinating sideline on it. There's where we my wife and
Speaker 1: I built an off grid home out of a little
Speaker 1: place on the west side pack of Packwood, Washington, which
Speaker 1: is also the west side Highway, not highway but Highway
Speaker 1: twelve and White Pass. Anyway, we had an off grid
Speaker 1: home and above our place, the forest service road that
Speaker 1: we lived on went up an additional thirteen miles to
Speaker 1: the top, made a hook, there's a there's a little
Speaker 1: lake up there, and it's just beautiful country and death
Speaker 1: definitely wilderness all the way from the from the my back,
Speaker 1: my back door to the end of it was wilderness.
Speaker 1: And there's a place up there where the road runs
Speaker 1: tight along kind of a rock wall. If you're coming down,
Speaker 1: it would be on the left side and for a
Speaker 1: couple of hundred yards, and then on the right side
Speaker 1: of that it just goes off into nothing with the
Speaker 1: bottom of the canyon. And we used to hunt up
Speaker 1: there all the time, and this gentleman from the area
Speaker 1: hunts up there an awful lot as well, and he was, well,
Speaker 1: he was past that point going up and when he
Speaker 1: came back down, that's the only way it comes. You
Speaker 1: either go buy that or you don't. There's no other
Speaker 1: You don't get an option. So he's coming back down
Speaker 1: the logging road, the poor service road, and in front
Speaker 1: of him, just passed the wall, there's a bigfoot is
Speaker 1: standing right smack in the middle of the road. He's
Speaker 1: a big guy to all of eight foot are better,
Speaker 1: and he's not paying attention to this gentleman coming down
Speaker 1: the road because he's got something in his hand and
Speaker 1: he's sniffing it and going through those motions and tearing
Speaker 1: this thing apart and ripping it apart, and he is
Speaker 1: bellering at the top of his lungs and just having
Speaker 1: a fit and that type of thing. So this gentleman,
Speaker 1: he's been all over those hills, he's never had an
Speaker 1: experience anywhere even close to this, and he's scared spitless,
Speaker 1: quite frankly, and I think I'm getting dry mouth just
Speaker 1: thinking about it. Anyway. Anyway, so he's stuck. Here's no
Speaker 1: place for him to go. And after a bit, the
Speaker 1: animal realized that there was somebody else in the vicinity,
Speaker 1: which was him, only a couple hundred yards away, and
Speaker 1: he drops what he has in his hand and took
Speaker 1: a couple of steps and went over the bank down
Speaker 1: into no man's land, and that was it. Well, the
Speaker 1: guy got him hisself together and he starts driving down
Speaker 1: the road and he looks down. He was wondering what
Speaker 1: was going on in his helf. By that time. What
Speaker 1: had happened was there was a lady's feminine napkin that
Speaker 1: this ad up on his face and sniffing in the
Speaker 1: odor and everything else like that. I don't think I
Speaker 1: need a lot of explanation about what was going on there,
Speaker 1: but it had lit him up, and that type of thing.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe he's looking for a date. I don't know.
Speaker 1: But the upshot of the whole thing is, I think
Speaker 1: the gal's perfume you might say, has has accommodated and
Speaker 1: has gone along with any number of outings, other different
Speaker 1: situations and ladies, ladies who have had, like you say,
Speaker 1: encounters around their own where men aren't around. So it's
Speaker 1: hard to say. I mean, that might be real far fetched.
Speaker 1: But whatever it was, this gentleman says, I'm think going
Speaker 1: there again, and which I think is kind of foolish
Speaker 1: because the animals they move on. It doesn't make any difference.
Speaker 1: But anyway, he'd had enough, he had enough experience right
Speaker 1: there without without going any farther than that.
Speaker 2: So I mean that was something that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a natural I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was fortunate enough to hook up with
Speaker 2: people that were much older than myself and had been
Speaker 2: doing this for a long long time before I even
Speaker 2: got started, and that type of information theory, whatever you
Speaker 2: want to call it, that's good enough. It was was
Speaker 2: pretty accepted and pretty well known and talked about, you know,
Speaker 2: in circles, and it was only due to you know,
Speaker 2: changes in society and what was acceptable and not acceptable
Speaker 2: to say publicly. You know, it kind of got stopped
Speaker 2: talking about. But that doesn't erase it, it doesn't make
Speaker 2: it go away, It doesn't make it anymore untrue.
Speaker 1: Exactly right. I mean, if you think about it, how
Speaker 1: much how much sense I'm talking S C E N
Speaker 1: T S do we take with us when we're when
Speaker 1: we're hunting for game, animals, of the sense of the
Speaker 1: of the lady, of the of the area, and those
Speaker 1: types of things. And to me it all makes sense.
Speaker 1: And over over time you hear all different kinds of things,
Speaker 1: and I don't you know, I don't don't need to
Speaker 1: get too carried away. But like you say, culturally, we're
Speaker 1: always in a state of change and flux and whatnot.
Speaker 2: So yeah, sure, what have you experienced.
Speaker 1: No, I've never had to wrestle one, let's put that way,
Speaker 1: And I've never actually even seen one. But I've been
Speaker 1: in a couple of different situations. Well, at the same road,
Speaker 1: it goes up makes a hard, hard hook to the right,
Speaker 1: and it's about the forty five hundred foot level, which
Speaker 1: doesn't impress anybody from Colorado, but around here it's the
Speaker 1: same height. There's white paths, and there's a little lake
Speaker 1: there called Jackpot Lake, and I took my canoe up there,
Speaker 1: and I'm a fly fisherman and everything. Sometimes the only
Speaker 1: thing I catch is flies. But anyway, I'm out on
Speaker 1: the lake and it was absolutely dead calm. I mean,
Speaker 1: there wasn't a wrinkle on the water, There was not
Speaker 1: a puff in the air. Even there was no Normally
Speaker 1: there's a crows and other birds and other situations making noise,
Speaker 1: but nothing was going on. It was toward the evening.
Speaker 1: It was a it was just before it really gets
Speaker 1: serious about getting dark and out of nowhere. On the
Speaker 1: other on the other end of the light, now, this
Speaker 1: little lake was a pothole lake and probably five acres okay,
Speaker 1: But at the other end of it in the big timber,
Speaker 1: and we're talking old growth, big stuff, and away from
Speaker 1: the lake itself came a tree and crashing down, and
Speaker 1: I know it was. It was a tree and maybe
Speaker 1: the somewhere between six and eight inch diameter at the
Speaker 1: blot something of that nature came crashing down for no reason,
Speaker 1: absolutely no reason that I could figure out, and it
Speaker 1: kind of made me wonder what the heck was going
Speaker 1: on there. So I paddled down to that end of
Speaker 1: the lake, and I was going to pull the canoe
Speaker 1: up on the shore and go up through the through
Speaker 1: the timber. It wasn't very far through there, and it's
Speaker 1: fairly open, and then at the backside of it dropped
Speaker 1: off into down to what called Jackpot Creek and at
Speaker 1: the far end, and that may be or some eight
Speaker 1: hundred thousand feet below, but it was pretty well straight
Speaker 1: up and down, and I started to get out of
Speaker 1: the canoe, and you know, this is not very smart.
Speaker 1: I think, I think I'll just let this situation simmer
Speaker 1: and go the other way. And I've had that premonition
Speaker 1: a couple of times. Again, A bear or cougar no
Speaker 1: longer bothers me. You know, you've been around them along
Speaker 1: enough that you know when when to push and when
Speaker 1: to not push, and or I have anyway, and so
Speaker 1: I've kind of stayed away from him a little bit.
Speaker 1: But I don't they don't bother me. I see, I
Speaker 1: see bear. I considered the highlight of my evening to
Speaker 1: see a bear walk around in the area, or see
Speaker 1: cougar tracks or that type of thing. And so they
Speaker 1: don't bother me. But there's all I've said before. There's
Speaker 1: something else out there that definitely catches my attention. And
Speaker 1: I don't know if the bigfoot, that's where I would
Speaker 1: call the infrasound, or the or the growling or something
Speaker 1: of that nature, is that we can't pick up with
Speaker 1: our own hair. Shoot, I can't hear a bomb blast anymore,
Speaker 1: but those types of things is and I'm kind of
Speaker 1: wondering if those are the kind of warnings or situations
Speaker 1: that come across on a different level, it says, Jack,
Speaker 1: you need you need to just go home and be
Speaker 1: done with it. Also, at the same time, just down
Speaker 1: below that a little bit, there's a swamp. And when
Speaker 1: I'm coming back down where it crosses the creek and
Speaker 1: there is a they like water and this there's a
Speaker 1: stream that runs kind of through the edge of the
Speaker 1: swamp and out the backside down And in the springtime,
Speaker 1: I go up there because I lived at the bottom
Speaker 1: of the road, so nobody would bother going up that
Speaker 1: road until there was enough spring and enough summer to
Speaker 1: open keep the road open. I just go up there.
Speaker 1: I would be looking for a boat making material and
Speaker 1: just to visit. Well. We also used to collect firewood
Speaker 1: up there too, so that was another reason to be
Speaker 1: up there before anybody in town got up there, so
Speaker 1: at least I would have my stuff marked. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I come across a couple of situations. There were the
Speaker 1: scat on the edge of that swamp was of a
Speaker 1: diameter and size was put that way that you knew
Speaker 1: it was no common bear in there, and there was
Speaker 1: something much much bigger than that. And I came across
Speaker 1: that in two different spots, and both both of them
Speaker 1: had that same sensation Jack, you just don't belong here.
Speaker 1: And yet at the same time, I go through a
Speaker 1: week later and that would would not be there, The
Speaker 1: sensation would not be there, it would not bother me.
Speaker 1: I go right off and do whatever I was going
Speaker 1: to do up there. So and I think, if you're
Speaker 1: sensitive to what's around you, and I developed that sensitivity,
Speaker 1: by the way, because I bow hunt with the old
Speaker 1: English longbow, I've done it for thirty some years, and
Speaker 1: that means you're by yourself if you're going to be
Speaker 1: effective at all. And I was very effective, almost too effective,
Speaker 1: but very effective with that. And so I had to
Speaker 1: pay attention to what was going around me on a
Speaker 1: different level than just blundering through with a red coat
Speaker 1: and a rifle. You get the idea. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: watching for every little thing I could to detect. I
Speaker 1: wasn't looking for danger, but I was looking for animals
Speaker 1: or signs of things, and whatever the case is. That's
Speaker 1: often the case for me anyway, that that I would
Speaker 1: bump into things that the average guy with a glow
Speaker 1: coat and a rifle would never see. They don't, they're not,
Speaker 1: they're not. They could shoot two hundred yards or better. Me,
Speaker 1: I kept my limits down at twenty or thirty yards max.
Speaker 1: And so I'd have to be I'd have to be
Speaker 1: pretty sensitive to what's going on around me. So with that,
Speaker 1: those things kind of disturbed me differently. And at the
Speaker 1: same the same area now, by the way, and I
Speaker 1: know of other people who have seen them up there,
Speaker 1: but the same area. There was a lookout up there
Speaker 1: during during World War Two. There was lookouts all over
Speaker 1: that country, and I could name a bunch of them,
Speaker 1: but it won't. But the south the ridge was called
Speaker 1: south Point, one of the highest little ridges in there,
Speaker 1: and it was right at about sixty one hundred feet
Speaker 1: where they put the the uh the lookout, and man,
Speaker 1: you could see a lot of country anyway. The upshot
Speaker 1: of that is that. My wife and I went up
Speaker 1: there a couple of times and back it never had
Speaker 1: a problem. It's quite a little height, and come at
Speaker 1: it from a couple of different directions on two different trails.
Speaker 1: And then the next time we went up there, she
Speaker 1: looked at me. I looked at her and I said,
Speaker 1: you know, this ain't and she she said, at first,
Speaker 1: she says, I don't think this is not right. Something's
Speaker 1: haywire here that it doesn't I don't feel comfortable. And
Speaker 1: I said, well, I've had the same feeling we're being
Speaker 1: watched or or we're being whatever. And so we backed
Speaker 1: out of there. The next next time we go back
Speaker 1: up there, it goes right through there like it was
Speaker 1: open seasons, you know, no problem. So from that perspective,
Speaker 1: I've been around them, and I've been around all kinds
Speaker 1: of people. I've ferried out any any uh uh story
Speaker 1: or any experienced people had I want to know more
Speaker 1: about these critters and that type of thing. The last
Speaker 1: few years I've really kind of leaned into it. And
Speaker 1: like I said, after I got married, you know, we're
Speaker 1: busy raising a family and I don't have I don't
Speaker 1: have a lot of time or and other interests and
Speaker 1: things of that nature take up the spare time, the
Speaker 1: slack time, and that type of thing. So I kind
Speaker 1: of stay away from that. But I've shared a lot
Speaker 1: of this with Sarah and John. She says, I got
Speaker 1: tons of stories. Well, I'm down to pounds.
Speaker 2: I'm just kind of curious personally. Is there a certain
Speaker 2: story or a couple that stand out in your own
Speaker 2: mind that you just personally like more than the others.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this first one, I told you that that's one
Speaker 1: of the very real things. Another one is I'll use
Speaker 1: the Malwich account. And I've said this one before and
Speaker 1: and I really like it because it impacted me as
Speaker 1: well as the other gentleman. I We lived in a
Speaker 1: little bird called Carbonado, and it's up in the hills,
Speaker 1: a little little west of Mount Rainier National Park, kind
Speaker 1: of kind of west central, you might say, and up
Speaker 1: on the up on the carbon Glacier and all that.
Speaker 1: It's just beautiful country east of Mountain goat hunt in
Speaker 1: a close proximity that you can't hunt legally in the
Speaker 1: park period, end of the subject. But we'd always we'd
Speaker 1: always run the edges, and because you know, the park
Speaker 1: itself is I don't know how many square miles it
Speaker 1: is is pretty good, pretty good size. You got Mount
Speaker 1: Rainier plugged right in the middle of it. And the
Speaker 1: upshot of all of that is it's it's not only
Speaker 1: primitive and remote and that's type of thing, but it
Speaker 1: becomes a sanctuary for any of the animals that live there,
Speaker 1: and so from time to time they'll come out. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I can't. I was leaving a Carbonado driving toward pew
Speaker 1: All Up and it's a half of my half hour drive,
Speaker 1: and just as I left the town of Carbonato, I
Speaker 1: picked up a guy kind of looked half lost. And
Speaker 1: I normally don't pick up hitchhikers, but this was years
Speaker 1: and years ago when that it seem to be quite
Speaker 1: a problem. Anyway, I picked him up and we introduced
Speaker 1: each other who we were. I'd never met him before,
Speaker 1: and we're driving along and he was he was a
Speaker 1: veteran like I am. He was a Vietnam veterano, although
Speaker 1: he apparently had some rougher times than I did. But anyway,
Speaker 1: and I says, well, what are you, where are you going?
Speaker 1: What are you doing? All that kind of stuff, And
Speaker 1: apparently he had took a large stump, cedar stump that
Speaker 1: was inside the park. You're not supposed to have done this,
Speaker 1: but anyway, had a large stump inside the park that
Speaker 1: he had. The bottom of it was sort of hollow,
Speaker 1: so he finished hollowing it out and made a kind
Speaker 1: of a cabin out of it so he could stay there.
Speaker 1: And he managed to stay a couple of winters in
Speaker 1: that thing. I would never would have done that myself,
Speaker 1: but he needed to be alone and that was his
Speaker 1: way of It's kind of a sanctuary for him. And
Speaker 1: so we got to talking about that he would bring
Speaker 1: He brought in a crossbow. Well, crossbows were illegal, but
Speaker 1: he liked that because it was quiet and he can
Speaker 1: make sure he had meat. And I did again, I
Speaker 1: didn't question it. That was his deal. But anything anyway,
Speaker 1: So we're driving along and I asked, I asked him.
Speaker 1: I said, listen, I says, what do you know about Bigfoot?
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what. And I've said this a
Speaker 1: number of times before. He went from a casual, open
Speaker 1: kind of a conversation, he just turned into a different
Speaker 1: man right there in front of me. He was two
Speaker 1: different people. He was dead serious when he got to
Speaker 1: that point of the conversation, and he says, well, I
Speaker 1: had one run in with one. I said to run
Speaker 1: in and he says, well, not really. I saw it,
Speaker 1: and I said, well, tell me about it. So he
Speaker 1: explained that he was on one little ridge that drops
Speaker 1: off into the canyon where his cabin was and her
Speaker 1: stump cabin you'd call what you want anyway, and he
Speaker 1: looked across the way and there was He thought it
Speaker 1: was a bear, and he says, I've seen lots of
Speaker 1: bear up there, and he did. I know he did,
Speaker 1: but anyway, because I used to hunt bear right off
Speaker 1: the edges of that myself. Anyway, he said, he said,
Speaker 1: was kind of up against the stump, and it was,
Speaker 1: and it was eating berries, huckleberries. So it must have
Speaker 1: been in the fall of the air late August early September,
Speaker 1: before he had decided to go in for the winter.
Speaker 1: And he says it was so odd it reach it
Speaker 1: would reach out and actually take take the berries and
Speaker 1: the limb and everything and eat it. And he says,
Speaker 1: I was fascinated because I hadn't seen a bear that
Speaker 1: was doing, not standing on its hinde and legs like that.
Speaker 1: And it was a far enough away that it wasn't
Speaker 1: a real clear picture apparently, and and he says, I
Speaker 1: watched it, watch it, and he says, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: it senses it knew I was looking at it, and
Speaker 1: it turned and looked right at me, and he says,
Speaker 1: it's just scared me spitless, and it gathered itself together
Speaker 1: and walked off toward the park, up into the timber.
Speaker 1: And he says, I watched it the whole way. It
Speaker 1: was not a bear. It was definitely a big pot
Speaker 1: of sasquatch. And he says, I never went back to
Speaker 1: my cabin. That was it. He did he wouldn't take
Speaker 1: a chance on it. And I asked him, I said, well,
Speaker 1: do you think it meant you harm? He said no,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. But I wasn't going to stay
Speaker 1: there and find out what's what was going on. He said,
Speaker 1: I couldn't handle it. And you know, I never caught
Speaker 1: the guys. He told me his name, but I never
Speaker 1: caught the guy's name. We lived in Carbonado at the time,
Speaker 1: and apparently he was one of those pass throughs that
Speaker 1: back and forth through there. But I always consider that
Speaker 1: one of my more fascinating bigfoot stories because of the
Speaker 1: not so much that he saw it, but how it
Speaker 1: affected him. And his psyche was already damaged because of
Speaker 1: his war years, and I'm certain that didn't help. That
Speaker 1: didn't help at all. So I don't know whatever happened
Speaker 1: to him. It's been long enough. He's probably passed away
Speaker 1: or gone off into who knows where. But that was interesting.
Speaker 1: And then on the same edge of that park, I
Speaker 1: have a friend of mine whose son I guess he
Speaker 1: was eighteen or nineteen. I thought it was older at
Speaker 1: the time, but it wasn't come to find out. But anyway,
Speaker 1: they were in there for an elk hunting trip. As
Speaker 1: a large flat area we used to go in there.
Speaker 1: I never hunted elk in there, but I did hunt
Speaker 1: deer in there because it was kind of a gathering
Speaker 1: spot for elk, a deer rather at that time of year,
Speaker 1: and the elk were in there all the time. Anyway,
Speaker 1: the upshot is and the guy was a rifle hunter.
Speaker 1: They had bootleg the camp in there, and they weren't
Speaker 1: supposed to do that. But a lot of things that
Speaker 1: we're not supposed to do get done, if you know.
Speaker 2: What I mean, Sometimes it happens.
Speaker 1: It was an accident anyway, anyway, just about the last
Speaker 1: little bit of a daylight in the fall, and there's
Speaker 1: a ground fog, and if you know anything about ground fog,
Speaker 1: the kind of hover at a particular level and you
Speaker 1: stick your head up out up over the top of
Speaker 1: it or down underneath it. It's just kind of a
Speaker 1: layer of fog in there. And he walked away from
Speaker 1: camp up this we called it the water spur, and
Speaker 1: in there and he says, well, I'm going to poke
Speaker 1: around see if I can't find a bull. I don't
Speaker 1: think he was actually going to shoot anything, because the
Speaker 1: season hadn't open to the next day. But he was
Speaker 1: doing a little scouting just before dark, kind of wet
Speaker 1: his whistle on it, you might say. And he'd walked
Speaker 1: away from camp quite a little ways and out of
Speaker 1: no worry, he just happened to look it up and
Speaker 1: he's looking at an eight foot animal standing there looking
Speaker 1: at him. It was a sasquatch, and he again was
Speaker 1: not that was the last thing on his mind. And
Speaker 1: I don't think he was burst in sasquatch lower because
Speaker 1: that's some hazard I guess thirty five years forty years ago.
Speaker 1: Maybe with the scope on it right away and he
Speaker 1: was lining up on it, and he looked at it and
Speaker 1: he couldn't. He had no reason to pull the trigger right,
Speaker 1: so he didn't. On the one hand, on the other hand,
Speaker 1: it was so it was so much difference, and what
Speaker 1: he expected was definitely not a bear. It was standing
Speaker 1: on his hind legs looking at him. And he looked
Speaker 1: at it long enough to know that he was in
Speaker 1: the company of something that was very uncomfortable, let's put
Speaker 1: that way. So he turned around to leave. He brought
Speaker 1: his rifle back to his side, turned around to leave,
Speaker 1: and he started a hurry off, and he realized this
Speaker 1: may not be a good deal. He should have walked
Speaker 1: backwards for a waist. And he turned around real quick
Speaker 1: and it was just gone. And he's never been back,
Speaker 1: never been back. Scared him spallless, wow, and couldn't handle.
Speaker 1: But he was looking at and I feel bad for him.
Speaker 1: That's the other thing, too, We're not If you see
Speaker 1: a bear in an uncomfortable position situation, you know enough
Speaker 1: about bears to know that you can go right back
Speaker 1: in there later and not have a problem. You'll be looking,
Speaker 1: you'll be watching for what's going on, but not necessarily
Speaker 1: a situation where you felt like you were in danger.
Speaker 1: But bigfoot, because they're so rare, the sightings so quick
Speaker 1: and so surprising, we don't get acclimated to them. In
Speaker 1: other words, we don't have enough access to their face
Speaker 1: and to what's going on, what they're thinking, and how
Speaker 1: they're functioning, so that we can say, yeah, I can,
Speaker 1: I can, I can be comfortable in the company of
Speaker 1: a bigfoot A couple hundred yards off is that. I
Speaker 1: think Sarah and Jonathan are of that ilk. They they
Speaker 1: have had enough exposure that you know, they're not going
Speaker 1: to run up a bear hug one, but they're not
Speaker 1: going to be petrified or taken back. And most of
Speaker 1: us have not had that. We don't haven't had that
Speaker 1: level of experience experience. You and I probably if we
Speaker 1: see one once in a lifetime. We've seen one once
Speaker 1: in a lifetime, and that makes all the difference in
Speaker 1: the world. The first first bear I killed and that
Speaker 1: was that was that experience. But after that and others
Speaker 1: that I've taken over the years, they don't. They just
Speaker 1: don't affect me. I'm that way at all. And it
Speaker 1: includes cougar and other things I've been you know, I've
Speaker 1: been a handshaken distance from any number of animals over
Speaker 1: the years, and because I know what they are, they
Speaker 1: don't affect me the same way as they would a newcomer.
Speaker 1: I take a neophyte out there and show them the
Speaker 1: bear for the very first time, he might have racing
Speaker 1: streaks in the shorts. Yeah, yeah, you know, because that's
Speaker 1: the first time. With the second or third time that
Speaker 1: it gets in or after some if he's with people
Speaker 1: who have had those experiences, things fall into place in
Speaker 1: a different level.
Speaker 2: Oh. I'm sure if I were in a position where
Speaker 2: I saw a grizzly bear out in the wild, just
Speaker 2: in the woods with me or something, or standing on
Speaker 2: the other side of the meadow, I would be absolutely terrified,
Speaker 2: without a doubt.
Speaker 1: Yeah. My wife and I and he went to eastern Washington.
Speaker 1: We had two dogs with us. One was a little
Speaker 1: a mutt, one of these little rat you know, it looked.
Speaker 2: Like a rat, yep, I know the breed. Well.
Speaker 1: The other one was was my it was and I
Speaker 1: say that fondly. The other one was a Labrador across
Speaker 1: and she was a young pupp at the time, and
Speaker 1: we crossed a little patch of timber and up on
Speaker 1: a ridge and there was a bear spot and at
Speaker 1: the other into that, and I didn't have leashes on
Speaker 1: the dogs at all, and we're that dumb and happy.
Speaker 1: And I looked up and there's a big red looking
Speaker 1: bear right right out there and everything else like that.
Speaker 1: And I got down on one knee real quickly, and
Speaker 1: I called my dog back to me. She didn't see
Speaker 1: the bear, fortunately, and I got a hold of her.
Speaker 1: And to make a long story short, we made leashes
Speaker 1: out of what we had and decided to get out
Speaker 1: of there, and we didn't. We didn't have a pocket
Speaker 1: knife between us, and if I did, I had cut
Speaker 1: my throat and handed the knife to my wife because
Speaker 1: because had it decided to do us in that we
Speaker 1: had no we had no defense. But anyway, so yeah,
Speaker 1: that But I've seen lots of sense, and I watch
Speaker 1: what they do. I don't they don't bother me that much.
Speaker 1: But but a bear, again, is a whole lot different
Speaker 1: than his asquatch. The animals you rarely see always always
Speaker 1: get catch you by by whatever. So I don't see
Speaker 1: if I got anything else to add to the file
Speaker 1: before before you throw me out of my own house.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're welcome to stay as long as you want. Jack.
Speaker 1: We lived in a little bird called Capelison and that's
Speaker 1: my next my next foray with Sarah and Jonathan if
Speaker 1: they put up with me. And that's there's three different,
Speaker 1: three different what do you call it? Incidence? Is there
Speaker 1: that I think are worthy of? Note? Uh, that was
Speaker 1: south of Tacoma, south of Graham and then finally out
Speaker 1: south of cap Holison itself and close to the southern
Speaker 1: western corner of the park. Which happened why I don't know,
Speaker 1: but we just happened to govitate to the park area
Speaker 1: when we moved around a little bit, and there there
Speaker 1: was nobody there. I mean when we first moved out
Speaker 1: there there was nobody. And now it's kind of a metropolis.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a shame to see that. But we
Speaker 1: we knew the area very well. And again I hunted
Speaker 1: by myself. I was all over the place there, footprints
Speaker 1: down and any any number of that places in there,
Speaker 1: and knew it very well. One of the few people
Speaker 1: that even did that, because nobody else would would waste
Speaker 1: their time there. But it was productive for me. After
Speaker 1: we moved out, I heard there was a called air
Speaker 1: Capus and air sports. I think it is. They had
Speaker 1: a parachute drop zone at the end of the airport
Speaker 1: that was at the airport was maybe less than a
Speaker 1: quarter of a mile from our house, that end of
Speaker 1: it and everything. Now, one of the guys UH had
Speaker 1: dropped a load of parachooters off and and was coming
Speaker 1: in for landing to pick up another load of UH.
Speaker 1: I call him idiots because there's no way I get
Speaker 1: out of a perfectly running airplane.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my stepdaughter is one of those idiots, and said
Speaker 2: the same thing, what is wrong with you?
Speaker 1: I test in their bed sheets. I'm I'm on the
Speaker 1: on the ground. But anyway, there's a lot of brush
Speaker 1: around that corner of the bird. There wasn't any any tolls,
Speaker 1: there wasn't a lot of timber. There's older trees. Every
Speaker 1: once in a while, by the way, you'd find a
Speaker 1: parachuters hung up in the older trees, which is funny
Speaker 1: in its own right. Anyway, he dropped down to get
Speaker 1: another load of parachuters, and just as he was dropping
Speaker 1: over the end edge of the the runway, he noticed
Speaker 1: a bigfoot and it was off in the brush a
Speaker 1: little bit and making a bee line to get out
Speaker 1: of there. So he pulled a throttle back and went
Speaker 1: made a big turn around there and to go back,
Speaker 1: and by that time the bigfoot had disappeared. Gone. But
Speaker 1: that was right in our backyard. Another gentleman up there,
Speaker 1: he went out to check his fence line. Something was
Speaker 1: raising a hob with everything he had and his pitch black.
Speaker 1: I don't think he even had a flashlight. And he's
Speaker 1: out there, an older fellow, and something literally cuffed him hard.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't It couldn't have been. I don't think
Speaker 1: it could have been a bear, and it wasn't an
Speaker 1: There's a lot of elk in area too. I don't
Speaker 1: think it was an elk or a deer because they
Speaker 1: don't have the means to cuffya. You know, they could
Speaker 1: run over the top of you, I guess, but I
Speaker 1: kind of wonder about that. It was about the same
Speaker 1: time that a scape a Roman or a local sheriff
Speaker 1: whatever one of the two had seen one across the
Speaker 1: road as well, and that was very close to the
Speaker 1: same viea. So it makes you wonder, you know, how
Speaker 1: many of these things are living in and around us
Speaker 1: that we not only don't see, we'll never see. And
Speaker 1: unless they make a strange move. We're not going to
Speaker 1: know that either.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you. You've read so many books,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you've heard the story of the rock
Speaker 2: apes of Vietnam. What do you think about that?
Speaker 1: Well, that's a good place for them, let's put that way.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Matt, I really don't know. I'm kind
Speaker 1: of as curious about that as you are. I was
Speaker 1: not a frontline soldier. I don't hate to say this,
Speaker 1: but I was a food inspector. That was my mos
Speaker 1: in the service, and I was stationed in sidegon Per
Speaker 1: a year and I bought to I bought staples off
Speaker 1: the local economy, checked different ration breakdowns and all that
Speaker 1: kind of falterol. That was my job and I was
Speaker 1: happy to leave it when I left. But as far
Speaker 1: as being out there were where I h what do
Speaker 1: you call it? Had exposure to that I did, and
Speaker 1: I know nothing about it at all until recently. I
Speaker 1: read a few books and articles and whatnot on that,
Speaker 1: So that's as far as I can go there. I was.
Speaker 1: I was attached to the veterinary. Our officers were veterinarians,
Speaker 1: and everybody underneath that were just like myself, were we
Speaker 1: did the grunt work and this, that and the other thing.
Speaker 1: So anywhere we were at we had a veterinary clinic,
Speaker 1: even in Vietnam, and that's kind of didn't I send
Speaker 1: you a picture of me holding a bear, Yeah, cub bear.
Speaker 1: That's an Asian cub bear, cub Asian bear cup And
Speaker 1: I liked that little guy. I'd been able to keep
Speaker 1: him there. He came in and they and they took
Speaker 1: him out. I don't know where he went after that,
Speaker 1: because we had a lot, we had pythons and you
Speaker 1: name it. Everything came through the clinic. But I saw
Speaker 1: no monsters come through there, and nobody talked of them.
Speaker 1: I have no idea. Although I do have friends from
Speaker 1: high school that went in the service at the same
Speaker 1: time ended up over there, and they they did talk
Speaker 1: about tigers and and things of that nature. But the
Speaker 1: rock apes or anything else like that, I have no idea.
Speaker 2: I just always wondered if it was, you know, something undiscovered,
Speaker 2: or if it was just a case of a bunch
Speaker 2: of Americans seeing something that they had never seen before
Speaker 2: and didn't know existed, or both right.
Speaker 1: Or a little bit of both. Yeah, Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I believe in the you know which always everybody wants evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence. Well,
Speaker 1: the first time you see a track in the mud
Speaker 1: is pushing down deeper than anything you could do, and
Speaker 1: it's and it's obvious that it came from a living animal.
Speaker 1: I start to call that evidence in a hurry. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know it. Uh, I don't know how you can
Speaker 1: do it. There's there's some of us who, let me
Speaker 1: put it this way. Of all the books I've read,
Speaker 1: and I've read a pilum, almost every one of them
Speaker 1: either starts or ends with it if they're there, if
Speaker 1: there really are existence, if this and that and the
Speaker 1: other thing. And I always started with there are they
Speaker 1: are there? So now let's get the rest of the
Speaker 1: information so we know what they are instead of always
Speaker 1: dealing with the if. And I just think it's what's
Speaker 1: the when I go hunting, I'll use it my another
Speaker 1: one of these sayings. When I go hunting, I assume
Speaker 1: that I'm going to find something. Other people hunt and
Speaker 1: they're going to ssume they don't find anything. So it
Speaker 1: is a whole different mindset, right, And I think I
Speaker 1: think the mindset either will either the mindset will verify
Speaker 1: where you're coming from or take away, so I just
Speaker 1: go the other direction there anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree. I think it places unnecessary obstacles
Speaker 2: and kind of prevents a lot of people from ever
Speaker 2: progressing towards any answers. Yeah, absolutely, I know for me personally,
Speaker 2: I had a siding back in two thousand and two,
Speaker 2: and this was a total accident. Of course, I'm not
Speaker 2: taking any credit for it at all, but that was
Speaker 2: whenever I was really going out there and investigating these
Speaker 2: things and looking for them on a regular basis. And
Speaker 2: after that happened, it, in my opinion, opened a lot
Speaker 2: of doors for me to see different things that were
Speaker 2: possibly evidence at least. Yeah, things that I was convinced
Speaker 2: were evidence regardless, because I now knew these things are
Speaker 2: real and they're out there, I already have that answer,
Speaker 2: so I don't need to worry about that anymore. So
Speaker 2: if they're out there, how are they impacting the environment?
Speaker 2: What kind of sounds are they making? You know, this
Speaker 2: really could be a trap because I know they're out
Speaker 2: here right exactly.
Speaker 1: This ill seeing is believing or is believing seeing? I
Speaker 1: prefer believe I believe they're they're so I'm looking to
Speaker 1: see it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I
Speaker 2: know a lot of people get hung up on it,
Speaker 2: you know, because well if you didn't see a bigfoot,
Speaker 2: do it or didn't you know? Okay, yeah, you're right,
Speaker 2: we get all those technicalities. But what are we here for.
Speaker 2: You know, if you're in this, you're in it to
Speaker 2: learn about bigfoot. And I think that's the most important thing.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. My floor installer when we first moved into this
Speaker 1: little place about ten years ago, we hired a guy
Speaker 1: to come in and put new flooring in it and
Speaker 1: are covering and I got to talk it. Damn. I
Speaker 1: talked to everybody about bigfoot or some related subject anyway,
Speaker 1: and I asked him about it, and he says, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: he says, I can take you down to Tatana Pam.
Speaker 1: Now that's where Sarah and Jonathan were. They're all met.
Speaker 1: A couple three months ago, a guy in a dump
Speaker 1: truck we drive down the road and one of the
Speaker 1: logging roads along the river, and a bigfoot stepped out
Speaker 1: in front of him and ran down the road for
Speaker 1: one hundred yards. Now, that guy there, quite frankly, he's
Speaker 1: not going to say I never saw it. It never
Speaker 1: happened because he did see it, and it did happen.
Speaker 1: And so this guy here up until that time, my
Speaker 1: guy that was putting the floor in, I thought, well,
Speaker 1: maybe he's maybe he's spinning the yarn here that I
Speaker 1: don't want to buy into, because he told me. He says,
Speaker 1: I can go down to Tata Pam, for instance, and
Speaker 1: this was ten years before this latest event. He said,
Speaker 1: I can take you down there and I can show
Speaker 1: you a bigfoot tracks anytime you want to see him,
Speaker 1: and you know you have it. I took that with
Speaker 1: a grain of salt. Okay, fine, sure, yeah and once
Speaker 1: and then when Sarah and Jonathan's article came out on
Speaker 1: that same thing or video, I said, uh huh, maybe
Speaker 1: that guy doesn't know what he's talking about. And at
Speaker 1: the same time, my old buddy that hunted up there
Speaker 1: lived up there and hunted up there. He told me
Speaker 1: about him climbing a little well, it's a pretty good
Speaker 1: size hill. It takes have the day to get there
Speaker 1: to the top called tomb water and which means falling
Speaker 1: water in the Native anyway, key and an incident worth
Speaker 1: one at the top of the hill. Now at the
Speaker 1: bottom of the hill was the Tainapan incident at the
Speaker 1: top of the hill. My friend had this incident. So
Speaker 1: between the two, I'm pretty convinced they had incidents and
Speaker 1: evidence enough for me. And as I went in a
Speaker 1: straight line north of that, I talked to two people
Speaker 1: that had had incidents at their place and amid the
Speaker 1: straight line with maybe four or five miles due north,
Speaker 1: and one of them had a bigfoot would come down,
Speaker 1: and a family come down from time to time and
Speaker 1: get into their apples and just make themselves known. You
Speaker 1: might say, nothing big until another till another house was
Speaker 1: built above them. There's only two houses on the road,
Speaker 1: the other one, and then that changed the dynamics of
Speaker 1: whether the animals could be coming in or out and anyway.
Speaker 1: So we got to talking and she she had had
Speaker 1: a grage sale there, that's why I pulled in and everything,
Speaker 1: and so somebody else came up there and we were
Speaker 1: talking and she says, well, when I was a little girl,
Speaker 1: this is an over gal. When I was a little girl,
Speaker 1: my folks who just lived just about a quarter of
Speaker 1: a mile away had a and this this is way back.
Speaker 1: I'd have to hazard a guess based on her her
Speaker 1: age and my age and everything else. It must have
Speaker 1: been fifty sixty years ago. They had an outhouse off
Speaker 1: off the edge of the house, off the edge of
Speaker 1: the some corner of the property was handy whatever, and
Speaker 1: they didn't have a door on it, which out there
Speaker 1: in the puckerbrush. Who cares anyway. So this she was
Speaker 1: about ten at the time, eight to ten, and she says,
Speaker 1: I went on there. I had to go to the bathroom,
Speaker 1: and I'm sitting there and this big hairy guy walked
Speaker 1: right in front of me, turned looked at me, and
Speaker 1: then they looked at each other for a few seconds
Speaker 1: and then turned back and walked away. Well, she went
Speaker 1: up told her granddad. She says he was big. He
Speaker 1: was really tall, And so Grandpa started to question her
Speaker 1: about it to find out what was going on. And
Speaker 1: he says, then he occurred to him. He says, they're
Speaker 1: here all the time, money, don't worry about it. They
Speaker 1: go through all the time. And it was a bigfoot.
Speaker 1: So just everything depends on the situation who you're talking to.
Speaker 1: But if I had the time and the money and
Speaker 1: a situation where I could go right down the house
Speaker 1: to house to house with some kind of an official
Speaker 1: badge hanging on me, so they would stare him off,
Speaker 1: and I let to talk bigfoot. I got a suspicion
Speaker 1: that that would be a lifelong pursuit all by itself.
Speaker 2: Just in relation to what you were saying. I had
Speaker 2: a couple of electricians working on my house one time,
Speaker 2: and one of them, I was kind of in this
Speaker 2: position where we are stuck in the same room together
Speaker 2: and he's over there working on the outlet and I'm
Speaker 2: sitting there and it's kind of awkward or whatever, and
Speaker 2: he starts talking, you know, first, and so we're having
Speaker 2: this conversation and I find out that he's originally from
Speaker 2: the southeastern part of Oklahoma, which is known for its
Speaker 2: bigfoot stuff. And I just kind of thought for a second.
Speaker 2: I asked him, I said, you ever runningto any bigfoot
Speaker 2: down there growing up? And he said, kind of looks
Speaker 2: up at me, no, looks back at the outlet and
Speaker 2: starts working again, And a few seconds he says, but
Speaker 2: my cousin did. Whenever he was fishing, he saw one
Speaker 2: cross the creek right down from where he was sitting
Speaker 2: at fishing, and he ran over there real fast, and
Speaker 2: it was already gone, but he saw the tracks and
Speaker 2: everything and just went on about his work like it
Speaker 2: was no big deal, you know, And that's kind of
Speaker 2: the deal. There's a lot more people who have experienced
Speaker 2: these things or know someone who has experienced these things
Speaker 2: than you would ever realize.
Speaker 1: Yep. And like I say, they don't get to see
Speaker 1: it twice, and so the familiarity doesn't happen. It just
Speaker 1: they are what they are. And you know, what, could
Speaker 1: you say? I'm a poet. I hate to say that.
Speaker 1: It scares people to death when you say that. I
Speaker 1: think I'm going to end with the poem about it's
Speaker 1: called an encounter. If that's okay with you, absolutely you
Speaker 1: can laugh with your friends. But this is an encounter
Speaker 1: that I wrote in twenty fifteen, and it goes like this.
Speaker 1: I heard footballs on the trail, and though I know
Speaker 1: he's near anticipation, grips me tightly and still, and yet
Speaker 1: there is no fear. Well over eight feet tall, four
Speaker 1: hundred pounds or more. I'll know this bigfoot better before
Speaker 1: this night is ore. So many years of hoping to
Speaker 1: see that lonesome face, to know the myth is real,
Speaker 1: I cannot, I cannot. That's a race. The moon is
Speaker 1: casting shadows and how I strain to see is that
Speaker 1: he among the willows? What else can it be? My
Speaker 1: heart is pounding lightly, My knees are weak, they shake.
Speaker 1: I wish a word to utter, but no sound can
Speaker 1: I make. The moon is full in silver, the light
Speaker 1: this night is full. I'm in the presence of a legend,
Speaker 1: and he is in full control. What a great confliction?
Speaker 1: Should I stay or go? My camera all but useless,
Speaker 1: I've forgotten all I know. Still he stands there in
Speaker 1: the willows, rocking slowly, rocking left and right? What is
Speaker 1: he thinking on this moon and silvery night? Like others
Speaker 1: long before me? Caught up in the lore, My heart
Speaker 1: says he's real, and still I need much more. I
Speaker 1: have no desire to arm him, and I hope he
Speaker 1: of me yet to touch and know he's real, and
Speaker 1: then just leave him be behind a cloud. It's darkening.
Speaker 1: The waiting is so long, and with the lights returning,
Speaker 1: the legend is now gone. Alone. I stand there, listening
Speaker 1: to night sounds coming through. Was this mere aperation or
Speaker 1: his bigfoot really true? Consider all the stories, put them
Speaker 1: to the test. You alone must decide on where your
Speaker 1: heart must rest. For me, I've heard the footfalls on
Speaker 1: the night of the Silvery Moon. I've seen him in
Speaker 1: the shadows and won't forget him.
Speaker 2: So Jack, thanks for joining me, Man, thanks for sharing
Speaker 2: the stories. You are a true treasure to the Bigfoot community,
Speaker 2: and I am very thankful to Jonathan and Sarah for
Speaker 2: introducing us.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much they paid you to say that,
Speaker 1: but I appreciate it,