WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:33.079 Oh, be the trigger Warren. 2 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:37.719 This podcast may include explicit content that will take you 3 00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:40.479 out of your comfort zone and make you question reality. 4 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:42.840 Listeners, discretion is advised. 5 00:00:56.079 --> 00:01:00.960 Hello, and welcome back to the show. This is the 6 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:07.120 fourth and final part of Blood Ties, and hopefully we 7 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:10.000 are going to wrap everything up in this one. Any 8 00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:15.319 unanswered questions from any of the other series, and uh, 9 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:20.760 we're gonna end it with a bang. Tolby, what do 10 00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:22.200 you think of the series so far? 11 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:24.680 Still waiting for that bang? 12 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:29.599 Fuck you? What do you mean? I think they've all 13 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:33.040 been bangers. I'm going to end it with a bang. 14 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:36.200 I'm anxious to see what that bang is. It's not 15 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:38.799 to say we haven't had many bangs along the way. 16 00:01:39.799 --> 00:01:41.359 That's been you know. 17 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:43.319 Yeah, it'll be good, right. 18 00:01:47.239 --> 00:01:51.439 I actually am excited about this one. We always go 19 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:54.840 into this with me not knowing what you've written. Sometimes 20 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:56.799 you're telling me certain things, but I'm seeing. 21 00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:01.599 DOMI right out that that's getting me a little soft 22 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:02.319 rubbery one. 23 00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:08.319 Sure Jeff would would approve. 24 00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:12.400 Well, I'll tell a story when we get going about 25 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:14.240 why I'm so fascinated with Dahmer. 26 00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:17.879 Well, can I ask you you're not really his type? 27 00:02:18.439 --> 00:02:20.520 But if you saw him in a bar, would you 28 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:21.159 go for him? 29 00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:24.240 No, I would play hard to get okay, because that 30 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:26.960 means I would immediately end up in his refrigerator. 31 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:32.120 All right, Well, I do kind of want to do 32 00:02:32.199 --> 00:02:35.159 something a little bit different before I read the quote today. 33 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:39.759 I want to kind of talk about the last episode 34 00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:43.479 and hopefully for those of you who are listening or watching, 35 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:47.080 you suck around to the very end of the last 36 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:52.159 episode where I played segments from a Ted Bundy interview 37 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:55.439 and I played it for Colby, and I asked him 38 00:02:55.479 --> 00:03:00.280 to watch it through the eyes of pretending he actually 39 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:04.919 was innocent of the crimes that have been attributed to him, 40 00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:07.719 And that's the way I watched it. I watched it 41 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:10.520 as if what if he could be telling the truth 42 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:13.560 in this interview and a lot of the crimes that 43 00:03:13.639 --> 00:03:20.039 have been like attributed to him he actually was innocent of. 44 00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:23.400 And that's how I watched it. But you had an 45 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:25.240 even different dake on it. 46 00:03:26.919 --> 00:03:28.159 I have to share with the class. 47 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:30.080 Yeah, I think it's interesting. 48 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:33.479 Okay, Well, we joke around about the weird ass connection 49 00:03:33.639 --> 00:03:41.360 between Jack Nicholson circa Laurel Canyon, Jack Nicholson and Ted 50 00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:43.800 Bundy in their backstory and how maybe it could be 51 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:47.879 him playing Ted Bundy. But I watched that interview just 52 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:51.599 kind of thinking about that, and I don't think that 53 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:53.319 was Ted Bundy. 54 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:55.560 You feel like that was Jack Nicholson. 55 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:59.439 I mean, go watch the movie five Easy Pieces or 56 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:05.479 any movie easy Writer, Easy Writer. Watch watch these movies 57 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:11.240 and think about the voice and the mannerisms too, the eyebrows, 58 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:15.759 the smile. Yeah, the mannerisms are spot on. The voice 59 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:17.800 even like, I'm one of those weirdos who think that 60 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:21.720 the same person that played Terence McKennon was probably probably 61 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:25.879 playing Ted Kazinski. Like there's actors out there playing multiple roles, 62 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:28.319 and so I don't know. It's it's hard for me 63 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:32.240 not to look at things that way, but I always 64 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:35.519 say I'm not married to one idea over the other. 65 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:38.399 I do look at things in a way and kind 66 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:43.399 of get out there in certain certain regards to like 67 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:44.759 what we're really being shown? 68 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:46.519 Who's real? What's real? 69 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:50.680 Can I ask you, though, if, besides the Jack Nicholson part, 70 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:54.040 if you watched that and you didn't know who Ted 71 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:57.560 Bundy was, but you knew about this research, would you 72 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:02.360 have thought he may be innocent? No, he appeared guilty 73 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:03.959 to you in that interview. 74 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:04.839 Not necessarily. 75 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:07.160 Not necessarily, he. 76 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:10.000 Appeared to me like somebody who was trying to sell 77 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:13.439 a narrative. He was trying to look compelling, he was 78 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:16.839 trying to look deep. He's trying to make you look 79 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:18.639 into this story even further. 80 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:21.160 Yeah, I guess so, right. 81 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:24.199 So I don't look at it like, is this guy 82 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:26.439 sitting in this chair guilty or innocent? 83 00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:27.680 Like what is he selling me? 84 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:33.199 He's on the news, he's a professed serial killer, self 85 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:36.720 professed even in certain testimonies, but in this one, he's 86 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:39.959 claiming he's never hurt anybody physically in his life. 87 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:44.399 So anyway, do with that what you will. 88 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:48.319 I don't expect people out there to entertain that idea necessarily. 89 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:50.279 It's just how my mind works these days. 90 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:51.040 I do. 91 00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:55.120 Also, we wanted to talk about another little wrap up 92 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:56.639 from Gaysey, right. 93 00:05:56.879 --> 00:06:00.279 Yeah, because we did the beginning of our life. Last 94 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:04.560 episode was Gacy and then we kind of trailed off 95 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:11.360 into Bundy. But some interesting information has crossed our path. 96 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:13.439 Well, I listened to this. 97 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:17.480 For people out there who know who Jay Dyer is, 98 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:22.160 Jay Dyer's always got some pretty hot leads before they 99 00:06:22.399 --> 00:06:27.600 like really become known in the like mainstream conspiracy world. 100 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.720 But he was talking about this podcast series that came out. 101 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:33.480 I think it was twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen, do 102 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:34.000 you remember. 103 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:35.399 I can look at it right now. 104 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:38.920 Actually, yeah, you look up the synopsis of it, because 105 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:40.959 I did a screenshot on my tablet, but I didn't 106 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:44.759 bring it in here. But it's as we were going 107 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:49.600 through this with all Julia's research, I was reminded about 108 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:53.600 a podcast called The Clown and the candy Man that 109 00:06:53.680 --> 00:07:00.759 this independent woman journalist put out. And it's eight episodisodes long, 110 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:05.240 and so obviously we know the Clown is John Wayne Gacy. 111 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:08.600 The Candyman is a lesser known serial killer, even though 112 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:11.600 at the time of him being busted, he was the 113 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:14.319 biggest mass murderer at the time. He had twenty seven 114 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:16.040 bodies Dean. 115 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:18.399 Coral out of oh, twenty twenty. 116 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:20.120 That's when that came out. 117 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:22.279 It was twenty twenty, twenty twenty. Okay, so it's a 118 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:24.279 lot more recent than I thought. So it must have 119 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:26.839 been brand new when I listened to it. Yeah, so 120 00:07:27.319 --> 00:07:29.600 the read the little synopsis for everybody. 121 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:33.839 Okay, so it's called The Clown and the candyman, and 122 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:38.000 it says two serial killers, Dean Coral and John Wayne Gacy, 123 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:43.160 thousands of miles apart, brutally murdered over sixty teenage boys. 124 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:46.480 The police said the murders were the work of these 125 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:51.399 soul deranged killers, but for the first time, we revealed 126 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:55.439 that they were actually connected by a network of pedophiles 127 00:07:55.680 --> 00:08:01.439 which was partially financed by prominent members of American society. 128 00:08:02.680 --> 00:08:06.720 This is America's sordid secret. 129 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:12.920 Yes, so's She did some extensive research. Basically, Dean Coral 130 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:17.079 was killed by what, at first glance appeared to be 131 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:23.720 a victim, and when the investigation thickened, they found out 132 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:29.560 he was a victim slash accomplished, maybe only accomplice. He 133 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:33.720 claims he was handcuffed and that he talked Coral into 134 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:35.440 letting him go, and then he grabbed a gun from 135 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:37.440 him and killed him and saved two other people that 136 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:40.000 were there, a girl and a guy that were both 137 00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:42.799 younger friends of his. But it turns out him and 138 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:46.360 another guy were helping Dean Coral. They were recruiting for 139 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:48.440 him and then they would actually help with all the 140 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:52.120 sick shit that was going on, and a bunch of 141 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:56.279 other busts started going down around that same time in 142 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:59.639 different parts of the US. But this woman in her 143 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:02.480 reces search tied it to what is her name, I 144 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:03.840 don't want to just call her some. 145 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:06.480 Woman Jacqueline buying them. 146 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:08.200 Jacqueline buying them. 147 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:12.559 And so she ends up looking into these big pedophile 148 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:17.159 rings getting busted in Michigan and there was she calls 149 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:21.320 it the real first pedophile island where I don't remember 150 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:23.200 what lake it was, but they had a boys camp 151 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:26.759 out there. She ties like these people who were really 152 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:30.200 upper echelon, like one of the main guys was the 153 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:34.480 son of a high level GM executive. And then so 154 00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:37.159 she just keeps tying all these groups together until she 155 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:42.639 eventually was able to get one of Gasey's some one 156 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:44.440 of the kids he hired to work for him was 157 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:46.240 actually an accomplice of this other guy. 158 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:50.759 His name was Steve Kram who his accomplice. 159 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:54.360 What was the guy's name anyway, I keep forgetting it. 160 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:56.559 Which one? 161 00:09:57.879 --> 00:10:01.639 No, the guy who had like the network where he would. 162 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:05.639 John David Norman Norman. 163 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:10.159 So Norman's accomplice was at one point hired by. 164 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:14.039 Gasey. Was he a victim? 165 00:10:14.600 --> 00:10:14.639 No? 166 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:17.840 The guy that he's talking about that worked for him. 167 00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:20.080 That was a young guy that he says helped him 168 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:22.799 with some of this stuff. His name was Steve Cram. Okay, 169 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:25.000 so he was the guy that was with but he 170 00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:29.440 Steve Cram. And for those who have kept up at 171 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:32.879 all with true crime stuff, these names will not sound 172 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:37.799 unfamiliar to you, but h John Wayne Gacy said that 173 00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:41.159 a young kid that was working for him named Steve 174 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:45.600 Cram was friends with a guy named Philip Pasky who 175 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:50.039 was also Yeah, he was also friends with John. 176 00:10:49.879 --> 00:10:56.679 David Normasky was actually on Gaysey's like books for being 177 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:00.240 a worker. Yes, and so all these she was able 178 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:05.879 to connect it. Well, the guys that were actually helping Qral, 179 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:09.120 the younger kids that were helping I mean I say kids. 180 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:11.279 They were like teenagers when they met him. 181 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:11.879 And then by the. 182 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:15.720 Time these kids also know PHILIPASKI. 183 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:18.120 I don't remember, but they told the police initially that 184 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:21.600 Coral wasn't acting independently, that he's part of this large 185 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:27.679 pedophile network in Dallas. And that's where Norman was right. 186 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:32.039 So everybody's dropping everybody's names in these circles. 187 00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:33.240 And this was before any. 188 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:36.440 Of this stuff was like accessible to the general public 189 00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:40.559 any of these names or this information fact. They usually 190 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:43.840 just didn't really publicize it too much. I mean, a 191 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:46.159 lot of this stuff was just as big and fucked 192 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:47.960 up as the stuff that's been going on on the 193 00:11:47.960 --> 00:11:50.399 West Coast with that Julia and I have been talking about, 194 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:54.519 but it got zero coverage until Gaycy. Coral even goes 195 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:57.440 kind of under the rug when you're just doing a 196 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:00.559 surface level look over all the serial killer and true 197 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:03.320 crime like legends. He's not one of them, but he 198 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:04.440 should fucking be. 199 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:08.240 He is what they call the candy man. And he 200 00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:13.279 had his body count was twenty eight boys, which is 201 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:16.240 not far off from the thirty three that are attributed 202 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:19.279 to Gaycy. And everybody blows Gaysy up like he was 203 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:21.960 the biggest and the baddest and the only you know. 204 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:26.080 But right around the same time, we have Dean Porl 205 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:29.600 ripping and running through boys and apparently he had some 206 00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:32.279 kind of a torture board and. 207 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:36.679 Oh and they both knew the handcuff trick. Yeah, and 208 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:39.000 some other things kept coming up. It's almost like these 209 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:41.919 guys were part of a network that trains and it's 210 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:45.120 like she didn't really go to the level Jacqueline that 211 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:49.240 I would have like have gone myself, like they're obviously 212 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:52.120 being trained but by who? And is it intelligence? 213 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:55.720 Well, they did mention there were this higher ups involved 214 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:56.919 in things. 215 00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:00.440 But she needs to like read program to kill going 216 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:05.000 down that path of research, and then she could since 217 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:08.320 McGowan is no more, we should get hold of her. 218 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:11.360 Man, you think she'd come on a show and talk 219 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:14.080 about it, Yeah, dude, that would be a cool fucking 220 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:20.000 episode podcast. Yeah, questioning her, But I mean for for 221 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:23.399 an eight part series, and god knows I love series. 222 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:25.519 I put him out all the time, but it's an 223 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:28.320 eight part series each, it's. 224 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:29.720 Not it's not redundant. 225 00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:31.840 It's like I complained about this kind of shit, like 226 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:34.399 they just go redundant to get like ten episodes out. 227 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:38.120 Every fucking word is key. Yes, I mean she does 228 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:40.600 circle back a lot, but only when it's necessary. They're like, 229 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:42.879 remind you, I'll remember we talked about this earlier. 230 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:44.320 Here's why that's important. 231 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:47.000 Well, and for me, I even had to like pause 232 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:49.759 and like kind of like take in everything she was 233 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:52.600 saying because she was moving at a pace and if 234 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:56.000 you weren't paying attention, you'd fucking miss out on key information. 235 00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:58.559 So those are the kind of podcasts that I love 236 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:01.159 to listen to. We knocked out the whole series in 237 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:02.159 what a couple. 238 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:04.080 Of days on a red even on a road trip. 239 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:07.559 I mean they're forty minutes. If you had a nine 240 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:10.840 to five job, you could knock out probably the whole series. 241 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:13.240 But I mean, I'm saying it's like a seven hour 242 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.080 time commitment probably, and you'll. 243 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:19.279 Be hooked after the first one. Like it's it's super interesting. 244 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:21.639 Each each episode is like a new layer of the 245 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:23.120 fucking pedophile ASAGNYA. 246 00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:25.639 And you know, I thought we did a pretty good 247 00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:29.000 job covering gaycy stuff, but it just opens up a 248 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:31.919 whole new world with this other connection with the. 249 00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:34.639 Well you go in knowing the angle that you're covering 250 00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:38.200 that's gonna I mean, she talked about stuff that we 251 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:40.639 didn't know about, and I'm sure we've talked about stuff 252 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:41.720 that she hasn't looked into. 253 00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:45.080 Oh I'm sure. But I did think it was interesting 254 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:48.960 because in one of the last episodes spoiler alert, she 255 00:14:49.159 --> 00:14:53.440 does include phone calls between John Wayne Gacy and this 256 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:54.320 guy who was like. 257 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:55.600 Yeah, talked about it a little bit. 258 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:57.559 Yeah, we we kind of talked about it, but to 259 00:14:57.639 --> 00:15:01.840 hear him actually speaking to guy and like giving him 260 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:05.799 information a lot of this stuff. As we were saying 261 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:09.320 before in our previous episodes, it just didn't even add 262 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:13.279 up that John Wayne Gacy was a in town. There 263 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:16.360 were receipts of him being out of town at the 264 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:18.120 time of the disappearance. 265 00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:20.679 Of some of these boys, out of construction builds going 266 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:23.320 on when some of these kids went missing. So even 267 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:26.120 if John Wayne Gacy did kill them, he wasn't the 268 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:26.679 one who. 269 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:28.360 Took them off the street, right. 270 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:29.879 He was one. 271 00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:31.279 Explored in the last episode. 272 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:33.960 He could have just had the finishing house or been 273 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:36.120 the one who like got to like finish him, and 274 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:38.159 it was he got off on it somehow and then 275 00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:40.120 he'd fucked the dead bodies or whatever he did. 276 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:43.960 Yeah, that makes more sense to me anyways. But anyways, 277 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:46.000 that is a great podcast. 278 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:48.919 Check it out. Clown and the Candy Man. 279 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:52.399 Clown and the Candyman. And so I guess I should 280 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:59.600 read our honorary quote before we get started. Quote Jeffrey 281 00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:03.720 da thought he was the devil. Jeffrey thought he was 282 00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:09.320 so evil that he was equal to the devil. End quote, 283 00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:14.720 and that comes from Attorney Jerald Boyle is. 284 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:21.159 That from like his closing statement in court he's the prosecutor. 285 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:25.080 Yeah, I mean there was this whole thing, and I 286 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:28.480 have talked about it a little bit before, where jeff 287 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:31.279 would say he would get off or like get charged 288 00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:35.879 up by watching The Exorcist Part two, and he even 289 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:38.759 got contacts to change the color of his eyes. 290 00:16:39.159 --> 00:16:40.559 They covered that pretty well in. 291 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:45.039 The Evan Peters. Yeah, so he really did think that 292 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:48.840 he was evil incarnate and he was trying to build 293 00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:50.960 an altar. You remember that. 294 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:58.039 Yeah, I'll just I'll do this now. But Jeffrey Dahmer 295 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:02.279 was why I said it was kind of a special 296 00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:06.160 thing for me because Jeffrey Dahmer was my entry into 297 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:10.559 this world. I told Julia this story a little while ago, 298 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:14.160 but when I was eleven or so, because it was 299 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:15.880 in ninety four that he got caught. 300 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:20.000 I was he died in ninety four, so it would 301 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:20.880 have been way before that. 302 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:24.640 I think he had just been put or just died. 303 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:27.200 Okay, so that makes sense. It would have been ninety four. 304 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:28.319 Then, Yeah, I think it was. 305 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:32.799 Newsweek did a big spread on it, and I was 306 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:35.920 at my aunt and uncle's house and I had to 307 00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:39.000 take a shit and one of my cousins was in 308 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:41.079 the other bathroom, and so I got to go into 309 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:45.039 their master bedroom bathroom, which was like in their house. 310 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:49.200 That was like, you know, a privileged event. And I 311 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:53.279 got led in there by my aunt and there was 312 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:55.799 on the back of the toilet a stack of magazines 313 00:17:55.799 --> 00:18:01.079 and I found the article on Dahmer. Eleven years old 314 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:05.079 reading this thing. You know, I'm like probably a few 315 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:05.920 paragraphs in. 316 00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:07.119 By the time it got done. 317 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.920 Taken my tiny eleven year old shit, and I snuck 318 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:14.200 that magazine out of there and I finished reading it, 319 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:18.240 and then that sent me down my fascination with serial killers. 320 00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:22.079 So Dahmer was my initiation. And I think, to me, 321 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:23.359 he's the most fascinating. 322 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:25.400 He is the most fascinating. 323 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:30.480 And it's just weird because every study of psychopathy and 324 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:33.039 like just the monsters that walk out there that have 325 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:35.559 done this kind of thing or so so we're told 326 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:40.880 he is a unique case study on so many levels. 327 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:46.359 And he also fits perfectly into the program to Kill 328 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:49.200 theory that McGowan laid out very well that Julia has 329 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:52.960 been presenting and doing her own research on. He is 330 00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:58.000 just on every level, just extremely fascinating. 331 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:03.759 He is, and you know, He was actually the second 332 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:06.839 serial killer I was ever introduced to, and I will 333 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:10.160 say this. The first serial killer I was ever introduced 334 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:14.200 to was Ted Bundy, which peaked my interest into looking 335 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:18.279 into serial killers. But the second one I ever found 336 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:24.000 out about was Jeffrey Dahmer. And my mom rented some 337 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:26.839 kind it was. It was a movie about Jeffrey Dahmer. 338 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:29.039 It wasn't a documentary. It was supposed to be like 339 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:32.079 the Evan Peters thing. It was a movie about him, 340 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:35.559 and I remembered watching was this the one with U? 341 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:40.680 It came out when I was a kid. It wasn't 342 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:42.640 wasn't anything recent. 343 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:43.920 No, this isn't recent. 344 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:46.319 What's the guy who played Hawk guy in the Avengers. 345 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:48.279 He's a big actor. I can't think of. 346 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.759 His name, right, I can't think of his name, but yeah, 347 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:51.440 I know who it is. 348 00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:53.960 I play movie in the early two thousands. 349 00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:59.079 Let me see if it was that one because Dahmer 350 00:19:59.119 --> 00:19:59.599 two thousand. 351 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:03.440 Jeremy Jeremy Rinner. Click on, you know who that is? 352 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.000 He's hot guy, right, mm hmmm, he played him? 353 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.680 And I guess well, I said, it's just get it 354 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:15.680 because yeah, well, my mom rented it at fucking Family 355 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:18.880 Video or Blockbuster or some shit, and I'll never forget 356 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:22.319 the cover that's I remember, you know, taking it home. 357 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:24.920 I was in like fourth grade or some shit like that, 358 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:27.400 and I threw up after I watched it. And then 359 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:29.960 you think that would stop my mom from showing me 360 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.920 any more perverted shit, But no, she she was. Yeah, 361 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:42.680 but anyways, I was severely triggered by even watching the 362 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:46.039 Evan Peters one was triggering for me. Like they did 363 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:49.359 a great job of putting you almost into the perspective 364 00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:50.880 of the victim on some of those. 365 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:55.000 Yeah, everybody that had anything bad to say about that 366 00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:59.640 was and I mean it's like one of the. 367 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:01.720 Cooke creator is an American horror story. 368 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:07.359 So there was a lot of like creative liberty. But 369 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:08.880 at the same time, he really. 370 00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:09.920 Did stick to the facts. 371 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:14.160 It did get a little wokish at the times, but 372 00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:17.599 there is moments in that I agree with you entirely 373 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:23.680 where you just feel like, anyway, the critique was that 374 00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:28.079 it glorified him, and it really didn't. Were you really 375 00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:31.920 got a good perspective of the victims' families. 376 00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:32.559 And you're. 377 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:35.599 The fucking deaf guy. 378 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.359 But I remember the scene where he's lifting weights and 379 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.920 he gets that jogger to come back to his apartment and. 380 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:45.759 He kills him. 381 00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:48.880 And then he's like driving him with all the grass 382 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.039 clippings and gets pulled over just obviously hammered, and. 383 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:52.920 The cops let him go. 384 00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:55.519 And then the scene where he's like standing in front 385 00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:59.720 of the mirror and he drinks blood, or even where 386 00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:02.799 he's cuddling with the mannequin. Yeah, they're saying like that 387 00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:06.119 eighties song baby don't Go, Don't Go. 388 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:07.960 He's just like spooning it. 389 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:11.000 Yeah, it gives you the fucking creeps, but you also 390 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:12.359 really feel sorry for him. 391 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:14.160 It's like you. 392 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:18.319 Know that, like he's not a bad guy, Like he 393 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:21.599 doesn't like he's not a good guy, but he's like 394 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:24.960 other than this fucked up ship he's doing, he's like 395 00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:29.519 polite people he cares about. Like, I don't think he's 396 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:32.839 a psychopath. Listen, like was he programmed to kill? 397 00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:37.640 I have watched many a fucking interview of Jeffrey Dahmer, 398 00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:41.039 a real interview where he's really talking and he's really 399 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:42.920 in prison, not a documentary, not. 400 00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:45.039 A red I watched. 401 00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:49.880