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Speaker 1: Or that's the Clear Mobile parate.

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Speaker 2: He knows a good thing when he hears it because

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it's only twelve ninety nine. Yes, only twelve ninety nine

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for unlimited five G data and calls. Yes, yes there

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are texts and that's why he's our top salesperson at

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Paris or Brave ninety nine Clear Mobile Keep it Clear

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powered by Vodaphone or Brave ninety nine activation for twelve

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You're a ninety nine nineteen gigabytes UK and EU roaming

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data for terms see Clear Mobile dot a emining.

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Speaker 3: A live man like this man letting butterfly flaven his

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wing big down in the forest.

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Speaker 1: Man, it gonna cause a tree fall, letting five thousand

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miles away.

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Speaker 3: Man, nobody seen, nobody else. You don't need no man.

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We don't like you, and you got back. That's the man.

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Speaker 1: Don't black a name on the pane.

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Speaker 4: Right, all right, Thomas, welcome back to the Jay Burton Show.

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How you doing, man, very well?

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Speaker 1: Thanks for hosting me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, man, So you and I are continuing our discussion

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of Blade Runner with the twenty seventeen half reboot half

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sequel twenty forty nine. Obviously, this movie is sort of

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in the right wing psyche right. You'll see you know,

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clips from it used constantly, But even aside from that,

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it holds up remarkably well. Denis Villeneuve is I mean,

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one of my favorite modern directors. There's some hits and

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some misses there, but it is a film worth watching.

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If you haven't seen it, it's a Google search away,

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you can find it for free, so highly recommend it.

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But Thomas, I guess I'll kick it over to you,

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is kind of an introduction.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think, like I I think what I started

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to addressed the subject matter a little bit in our

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first episode. They had a twenty forty nine, I mean,

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and then I called myself, say, you reminded me that,

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you know, it warn'ted a dedicated episode.

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Speaker 1: I was.

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Speaker 5: I wasn't entirely surprised that the hate that the film

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got because you know, again that that that was basically

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a you know, a reflection of what the way the

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way the original was received in nineteen eighty two, you know,

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and I think a lot of people didn't really understand.

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Speaker 1: What the.

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Speaker 5: What the film was trying to convey, you know, and

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it was very much it very much honored the source

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material by retaining universe aspects of the plot and the

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narrative that are essential because, like we talked about last time,

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there very much is an alternative history aspect of Blade Runner,

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you know, and that's important because it's it's not it's

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not simply our future. It's a possible future that didn't

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come to pass, but aspects of which we recognize from

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our world, you know. And one of the strengths of

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it too is that you know, the the the antagonist

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really two kay and the resistance that he discovers, the

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depth and substance of which is an open ended question,

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and it's not clear if you know, there the resistance

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that is developing among the the current generation replicants, sort

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of the most human of all there before created. It's

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not clear if this is just something that's conceptually brewing,

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as it were, or if it is a real, you know,

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mobilized tendency that is on the cost of changing the world.

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But regardless, it is obvious in everybody's mind, and particularly

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you know, that's the biggest potential danger to the to

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the current order. But uh, you know, and the Wallace

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Corporation and the character of Neander Wallace. You know, I

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think Jared Leito is actually a good actor. I know

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that a lot of these fanboy types savage him is

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some terrible actor because he offended them by his portrayal

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of some comic book ip or something. I don't fully

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understand it, but you know, the Wallass Corporation, it's not

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just some reducts of and the character of Walls themselves.

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It's not just a reducs a tyro. Oh, he's not

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even really a villain, you know. Like I mentioned before,

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I don't think he's He's willing to forego conventional morality

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to realize his ambitions. But he's not just playing god

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like Tyrrell was, you know, and he's not. He's got

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a vision for the enduring posterity if the human species.

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That's why he's doing everything he's doing, you know, and

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the whole uh the Nexus uh nine replicans, you know,

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coding memories into them that they themselves were aware are

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not actual experiences. That's actually quite humane because it's you know,

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from their inception.

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Speaker 1: In Nexus nine.

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Speaker 5: Are aware that of what they are, you know, so

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that eases some of the most brutalizing and existentially terrifying

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aspects of of their existence.

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Speaker 1: You know, and similarly to it, the UH.

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Speaker 5: The implication too is that there's a there's an in

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universe progression of the moral understanding around the replicants.

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Speaker 1: It's not an accident that k.

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Speaker 5: Is uh, you know, a replicant, and the implication is

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that Blade Runners are all replicants because he's not capable

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of disobeying a natural human, you know, So that removes

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potential insubordination from the equation and uncomfortable questions relating to

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you know, the ethics of of of chain and command

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and things. But also you know, it's one of the

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big subtext of the original Blade Runner is that Deckert

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is slowly losing his mind because he's he's.

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Speaker 1: Paid to murder people, you know, and.

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Speaker 5: That's not the sort of thing one wants police officers

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to be habituated too.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 5: And there's an understanding of I think that's really kind

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of on the nose in the original Blade Runner, that

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this is the replicant. Technology is very much uh. Social

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conventions and ethical paradigms are still very much in development

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around what is new technology, and there's always a punctuality

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equilibrium to technology that alters social and political paradigms. And

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undermines cultural and moral assumptions. But in the case of replicants,

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there's a there's a deliberate euphemism invoked around them, because again,

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they're they're not androids, they're not robots, they're they're human beings,

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they're biological, you know, and they they they can't. Depriving

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them categorically of their humanity is very much a fiction

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that is uh essential to rationalizing their their brutal existence,

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which is totally subordinate to naturally birth humans, you know,

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and uh, wall is acknowledged. Neander Wallace acknowledges that, and

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his whole, his whole ambition is, you know, to unlock

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Terrell's secret of you know, replicants that can naturally reproduce,

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because again that's you know, the human species needs to

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populate the galaxy in his estimation, lest it face ultimate extinction,

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you know, really an unconceivable timeline where man doesn't migrate

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off world, you know, And the only way to accomplish

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this is essentially through the mass production of superior people,

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you know, who can then reproduce themselves, either you know,

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on board generationships or on off rold environments that are

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you know, until until archaeological infrastructure that can sustained life

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is built is very hostile to it's a human life,

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you know. So it's sort of a natural progression, you know,

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decades on from the original in terms of ethical paradigms

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and sociological adaptations to this new reality. And also, you know,

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just the the trajectory of new technology, because you know, technology,

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especially especially things that are inherently problematic ethically, they you

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know this, it develops its own momentum, you know. That's why,

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that's why the that's that's that's why the Cold War

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strategic arms race was so dangerous, particularly as human decision

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makers were increasingly sidelined in favor of you know, albeit

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at that juncture primitive machine intelligence, but just the existence

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of such.

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Speaker 1: Weapons themselves changed everything.

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Speaker 5: And you know, the metaphor of a Pandora's box might

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be over done, but it's apropos because man isn't really

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at the helm, you know. And then in the world

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of Blade Runner, obviously you're talking about you know, the

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technology in question is uh, consciously self aware of human

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beings with agency, something that.

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Speaker 1: Obviously is.

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Speaker 5: A totally anarchic variable that isn't present in the case

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of you know, inert technological modalities. But even in the

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case of those that aren't alive, you know, institutions and

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conceptual structures and paradigms, both open ended and algorithmic need

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to be devised to control these things, because you know,

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man is not at the helm of his creation more

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often than not. And you know, so I think I

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think the world building was incredibly deep and it like

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I said before, I think do Anderd's Dream of Electric

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Sheep is a great is a great book. It's a

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great story, and the world building in it is awesome.

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And that's an outlier. I don't think Philip K. Dick

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that generally wasn't a strong suit, you know, but it's

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really it's not just effectively conveyed and Blade Runner the

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novel and the films, but it's an essential aspect of

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the narrative and that's what makes it compelling, that's what

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makes it profound. But that's also what allows you to

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suspend disbelief. And I think an I mean, admittedly there

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might be a bias inherent here because of where I

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live and Milo Call in particular is very much the

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model for cyberpunk sorts of ips and things.

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Speaker 1: But Blade Runner came.

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Speaker 5: True in substantial capacities in a way that other dystopian

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fantasies and and and movies and novels didn't, you know.

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And I think that that alone makes it a highly

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significant cultural product, you know, in a way that other

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things aren't, you know. I mean, these days almost everything

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is somewhat politically coded when you're talking about entertainment brands

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and things. You know, obviously there's there there, there's Hollywood

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that's you know, constantly insinuating ideological signals into their propaganda.

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But you know, there is a robust independent film culture now,

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and almost unfailingly it's either in reaction to big media

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and le media and uh it's ideological persuasion or you

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know it's UH, or you know it's it's staking out

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theretofore UH unexplored UH in the sense in UH, you know,

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with in at least in cinema, unexplored UH territory with

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respect to political questions, you know, and Blade Runner it

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avoids that sort of on the nose and pedantic UH

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narrative that all too often stands in for real storytelling.

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But it it's a credible UH and very nuanced and

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complete world that is uh devised around it. I realized

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there's a lot there, but that's I mean to sort

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of frame the discussion that that's what I think is

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good about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I So the plot starts with Kay and sort of

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going out to a sort of retire this replicant Sapper

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Morton played by Dave Fatista, who I'll say he's a

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very good actor. He's probably the best wrestler to actor transplant.

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Like John Cena and The Rock are not real actors.

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Dave Patista is quite good and he plays a very

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is an understated performance. He's not hamming it up, and

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Kay brings him in. This is kind of the first

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part where you see the both the expansion of our

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view of the world of Blade Runner and also the cinematography,

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which is excellent. He's on this kind of outlying protein

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farm outside of Los Angeles. It's sort of this these

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greenhouses full of you know, synthetic grubs growing analogae. It's

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it's pretty gross, but it is kind of a cool

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extension of it. So, you know, he brings him in

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and his drone, which he you know, sends out to

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scan the area, finds something at the base of a tree.

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Finds a box full of bones, so of course, you know,

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he brings it in. Turns out that these are the

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bones of Rachel correct from the first movie, and they

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bring it back, they look at it, and what they

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find out is that what's really shocking, and this is

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sort of the insiding incident of the story, is that

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she died in childbirth. A replicant gave birth, which you

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know as as Madame or Madam. His kind of superior

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at the police department says like, this breaks everything, This

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blows up the world. And she says, you know, there's

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a wall, and continually we see this visual of the

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sea wall protecting Los Angeles from you know, this kind

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of raging sea, and she says, if that wall falls

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down the divider between you know, replicants and humans, it's chaos.

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It's a war of extermination. And so that is, you know,

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sort of the inciting incident. Very quickly, we were introduced

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to several things about k One my favorite, or perhaps

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the most interesting character in this is Joy, and Joy

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is this sort of digital assistant slash girlfriend. We see

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advertisements for this everywhere and basically she exists to sort

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of it's kind of like a stand in social function

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or k as well as other people epectively, you buy

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a subscription with his bonus from you know, taking in

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this this replicant he buys basically a piece of technology

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that allows him to carry her wherever he goes. There's

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a little jingle that goes along every time she wants

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to talk to him. You'll hear that repeated over and

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over throughout the film. And again this is interesting because

237
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we see an extension of an idea from the first Joy,

238
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at least it seems, is partially sentient. She does things

239
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,759
later in the film that violate her programming, and you know,

240
00:19:16,839 --> 00:19:22,039
ultimately she is destroyed or killed and point is so

241
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:28,559
Joy initially when we see her is sort of sliding

242
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:33,079
into his life. We see this kind of juxtaposition between

243
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,599
what he is doing and how this digital hologram is reacting. So,

244
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,759
for instance, we see him, you know, pouring her a drink,

245
00:19:40,279 --> 00:19:43,440
pulls out the whiskey, you know, pours two glasses drinks

246
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,799
one then the other. This this hologram is projected on

247
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,240
top of what's really happening. We see this happen multiple times,

248
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,519
so we see, you know, he's making this kind of

249
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like disgusting rehydrated noodles, and over top of it, it

250
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,960
projects the you know, the wonderful meal that his you know,

251
00:20:02,039 --> 00:20:07,680
digital girlfriend has made for him. Yeah, when it realizes, yeah, yeah,

252
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,000
and this will come back to this character because again

253
00:20:10,039 --> 00:20:12,880
it's it's fascinating how she reoccurs through this.

254
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:14,839
Speaker 1: Well, so it's not clear entirely.

255
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,440
Speaker 5: Obviously, on some levels he does become spontaneously sentient, but

256
00:20:19,599 --> 00:20:22,240
you know how much of her affection for him is

257
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,279
just you know, the algorithm you know, prompting responses you know,

258
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,079
as it gets to know him psychologically, you know, and

259
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:30,559
it's just.

260
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,759
Speaker 1: Being you know, like a well, a well and a

261
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well programmed AI.

262
00:20:34,039 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, go ahead, oh certainly, and this will again

263
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Blater in a sort of famous for these shots of

264
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,680
you know, the city with these kind of towering advertisements.

265
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And in addition to the little jingle, the joy jingle,

266
00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:50,559
the other thing is the tagline is she tells you

267
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,319
exactly what you want to hear over and over and

268
00:20:53,319 --> 00:20:57,160
over again, which you know becomes relevant. So he decides

269
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,000
to now that he knows about you know, these bone

270
00:21:00,279 --> 00:21:02,599
and knows that there are other replicants connected to this

271
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:08,119
group that's been missing. He goes to Tyrell Corporation or

272
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,240
the Wallace Corporations, which bought the remains of it, and

273
00:21:11,279 --> 00:21:14,240
we find out several things. One we hear about this

274
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blackout basically, the whole city lost power.

275
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Speaker 1: It lost an.

276
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,599
Speaker 4: Immense amount of digital records, and so all records pertaining

277
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,119
to you know, a certain period in time are spody

278
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,720
at best. We also meet sort of the prime antagonist

279
00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:35,480
of the film, Love, who is another replicant. She's sort

280
00:21:35,519 --> 00:21:39,559
of the the head henchman. And she realizes as.

281
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,319
Speaker 1: Well, she's found like a female Roy Baddy in terms

282
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:43,240
of capabilities.

283
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, and she realizes as well, oh no, there's a

284
00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:53,880
pregnant replicant. This matters obviously, you know. Wallace wants that

285
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,559
because that is, as you've said, the thing, you know,

286
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,160
Jared Leto desires most the ability to have them reproduce

287
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,799
on their own instead of being manufactured. So this is

288
00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:08,480
sort of you know, the inciting lot. H Kay goes

289
00:22:08,519 --> 00:22:12,599
back to the scene of the you know, the opening

290
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:17,519
to the movie and examines everything, right, and he finds

291
00:22:17,519 --> 00:22:21,880
several things. He finds, you know, a baby sock, and

292
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,359
he finds a date, and the date sort of unlocks

293
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,599
this memory. This memory is of him as a child

294
00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:33,119
running away from a group of boys with a small

295
00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:36,440
wooden toy with this same date carved on the bottom.

296
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,799
And he tells this to his superior, who seems to

297
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,759
try and come on to him. He you know, rejects

298
00:22:43,799 --> 00:22:47,680
her advances, but nonetheless he you know, is talking about

299
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,039
this memory he has connected to this same date that

300
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:56,000
he sees carved on the tree under which Rachel was buried.

301
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,960
And so this is where we start to see him

302
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,119
sort of deviate from his program. There is this memory

303
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,640
that he has in himself seems somehow to be connected

304
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:12,599
to this case. The conversations between Madam and Kay are

305
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,000
really fascinating for a couple of reasons because one, she's very,

306
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,559
at least initially very blase about the fact that he

307
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:24,720
is not human. You know, she he when she charges

308
00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:28,799
him with killing this child ending this, he says, well,

309
00:23:28,839 --> 00:23:31,000
I've never killed anything with the soul before, I never

310
00:23:31,079 --> 00:23:33,839
killed anything that was born, and you know, she sort

311
00:23:33,839 --> 00:23:36,440
of throws back in his face, well, you know you

312
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,160
don't have a soul and you're doing fine, you know,

313
00:23:39,279 --> 00:23:42,240
indicating this kind of distinction. You know, the idea is like,

314
00:23:42,319 --> 00:23:45,119
what is it to have a soul? Is it, you know,

315
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,720
to simply be born? Is it, you know, as we

316
00:23:47,759 --> 00:23:50,039
see with Kay, to sort of develop your own consciousness

317
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:51,720
or even any example of joy?

318
00:23:52,079 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 2: Right?

319
00:23:52,319 --> 00:23:55,319
Speaker 4: Can that be fully digital? And I think that's really

320
00:23:55,319 --> 00:23:58,200
the most interesting thing about the movie. What it's the

321
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,319
sort of the question it's asking sammining from different angles.

322
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,519
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, and that's part of the genius of it.

323
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:09,720
Like we greatly touched on before, is that the the

324
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,200
the ontological subtext of the original Blade Runner is decord

325
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,880
in the back of decord in Gaff's mind for that

326
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,200
matter too, is am I a replicant? In a twenty

327
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,240
forty nine case asking himself? Am I a human being?

328
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,039
Speaker 1: You know? And uh, increasingly, you know.

329
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 5: The the criteria that disqualifies replicants from humanity is completely

330
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:43,759
arbited for ee. And it's uh, it's it's it's at base. Uh,

331
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,240
it's at base philosophical and political.

332
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:46,839
Speaker 1: You know.

333
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 5: That's the metaphor of the of the of the wall

334
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:55,079
that holds back to sea, you know. But that's also

335
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,400
why that's also why Walls isn't really a villain. Well,

336
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,400
Walls is trying to blow it up, you know, which

337
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,039
is uh, ironic too.

338
00:25:02,519 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: I mean, like a lot of uh.

339
00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:07,319
Speaker 5: He kind of reminds me the character of Zepperoni and

340
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,720
the Glass Bees. You know, Walls is manipulating everybody, you know,

341
00:25:10,759 --> 00:25:15,359
like La PD is a they they believe their mandate

342
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,799
to be something totally at odds that Wallas is trying

343
00:25:17,839 --> 00:25:20,960
to accomplish. But you know, they're playing executive role that

344
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:25,519
he wants them to within his grand scheme. You know,

345
00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:28,400
he's the most interesting character in the film, I think.

346
00:25:28,599 --> 00:25:35,920
But that might be uh, I mean that that might

347
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:41,240
be my own conceptual prejudice. But yeah, it's very there's

348
00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:43,160
a lot there. I had to watch it a few

349
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:48,400
times to fully grasp all the key aspects of it,

350
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,319
and I think that's one of the things that puts

351
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:51,960
some people off about it.

352
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:52,839
Speaker 1: It's a film you've.

353
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 5: Got to really engage with if you can't really just

354
00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:59,759
kind of passively watch it, you know. I I that

355
00:25:59,759 --> 00:26:03,079
that not just I mean, I'm sure that attention spans

356
00:26:03,079 --> 00:26:09,200
have diminished precipitously, but that even long ago. It's one

357
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:10,599
of the things that put people off of a lot

358
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,279
Alfred Hitchcock films, and that's something that put people off

359
00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:17,279
of Fritz Lang stuff. And I mean, like I said,

360
00:26:17,319 --> 00:26:22,920
I I maintained that Blade Runner is a spiritual sequel

361
00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:26,680
to Metropolis, you know, but it was the same thing.

362
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,799
I mean, most people when they watch Metropolis, they're taken

363
00:26:28,839 --> 00:26:31,839
in by the visuals because Fritz Lang's visuals are are

364
00:26:31,839 --> 00:26:34,319
really wild and compelling.

365
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: But you both.

366
00:26:37,519 --> 00:26:42,279
Speaker 5: Metropolis and m You've got to really pay attention and

367
00:26:42,319 --> 00:26:48,240
be involved with those films otherwise you're you miss like

368
00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:52,160
key aspects of the plot and how it resolves and stuff.

369
00:26:53,720 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, so as we you're entirely correct, because look like

370
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,039
this movie is you know, visually compelling and you can

371
00:27:05,039 --> 00:27:07,759
pick up on, you know, certain things, but it's pretty

372
00:27:07,759 --> 00:27:10,039
slow in the grand scheme of things. It's not really

373
00:27:10,079 --> 00:27:13,279
an action movie even compared to the first. You know,

374
00:27:13,319 --> 00:27:17,200
there are there is exciting things at certain points, but

375
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,759
it's you know, all of three and a half hours.

376
00:27:19,799 --> 00:27:21,319
It's it's fairly long.

377
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's ten minutes so like violence and fighting, yeah.

378
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,839
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly. So part of the what develops next, and

379
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,319
the reason I'm sort of going through this quickly is

380
00:27:32,319 --> 00:27:35,200
so that we can get to without context, this won't

381
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,200
make sense, right, is that as part of this this

382
00:27:38,319 --> 00:27:41,559
quest looking for this child, you know, he has this date,

383
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:46,759
and he has this memory of you know this saying

384
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,680
this animal, this carved wooden animal with a date on it.

385
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,240
And so when he goes to look for medical records connected,

386
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:59,039
he finds two one male and one female, anomalous records. Right,

387
00:27:59,079 --> 00:28:03,279
they have the same It matches the birth date. So

388
00:28:03,319 --> 00:28:06,400
he basically looks into this and he finds that according

389
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,359
to these records, which again because of this big blackout,

390
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:14,319
are very spotty, they're manually sorted. And what's interesting is,

391
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,880
you know, because he can carry a joy around with him,

392
00:28:17,079 --> 00:28:18,680
there are all of these scenes of the two of

393
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,839
them interacting, and again she is transparent, and there's this

394
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:23,920
great scene where he's looking into this. It sort of

395
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,400
looks like an old school analog vision tester, right scrolling

396
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,400
through these records, and she projects around him, over top

397
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,759
of them, so you see their faces sort of layered

398
00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:36,960
one on top of the other. But he finds these two,

399
00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:42,240
these two incidents or these yeah, these two children seemingly

400
00:28:42,359 --> 00:28:46,680
with the same DNA, one male, one female. Females listed

401
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,160
as deceased, and for the male, they have a record

402
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,759
in an orphanage. So he goes out into sort of

403
00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:57,200
the waste land surrounding Los Angeles to find this orphanage.

404
00:28:57,559 --> 00:29:00,200
He is shot down by a group of raiders, and

405
00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:02,200
even though he fights a few of them off, it's

406
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,119
there's hundreds of them, and the Wallace Corporation, we don't

407
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,720
know this is watching him. They're tracking him because they

408
00:29:09,799 --> 00:29:14,359
want to find the child and basically use a gunship

409
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:19,799
to blow these guys away. K is alive, so he

410
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,839
goes into this orphanage, which is sort of and again

411
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,640
this is something that is real, right. They have this

412
00:29:25,759 --> 00:29:29,480
room full of children breaking apart technology to salvage you know,

413
00:29:29,599 --> 00:29:33,039
rare metals from it. And when he goes into you know,

414
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,359
confront this, you know, the owner of this orphanage, he

415
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,799
finds that the records pertaining to you know, this child

416
00:29:40,839 --> 00:29:43,640
and really everything around them have been ripped out. But

417
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,440
while he's there, he realizes, I recognize this. This is

418
00:29:47,559 --> 00:29:51,119
the same scene from my memory. So he steals to

419
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,160
one side and going back to that memory of running

420
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:58,880
away from these kids. Apparently in this orphanage. The conclusion

421
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,880
to the memory is he takes this wooden horse and

422
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,640
hides it in a burnt out furnace so that the

423
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,640
other children can't get it, and in his own memory,

424
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,119
he's beaten for it. And when he goes to apparently

425
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,720
the same location, he reaches into the furnace and he

426
00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:22,200
finds it. He finds this little wooden doll with the

427
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,319
same code or the same date rather from the tree.

428
00:30:25,839 --> 00:30:28,200
It matches up. And this is where we really start

429
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,319
to see k questioning is this memory mine because it's

430
00:30:32,319 --> 00:30:35,200
in my head it matches up to reality, and how

431
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,680
is it connected to this case? We see him start

432
00:30:37,759 --> 00:30:41,400
to suspect maybe he is the child, because again it

433
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,759
matches his memories. So he goes to and I don't

434
00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:50,279
remember her name, but this doctor who creates synthetic memories

435
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:55,359
for replicants. We find out that she is has some

436
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,759
sort of autoimmune disease, so she effectively lives in a bubble.

437
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,519
She can't go out out of it.

438
00:31:01,319 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: And doctor Stealin exactly, and yeah, doctor Anna Stealin.

439
00:31:08,359 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: He basically goes and talks to her to find out,

440
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,519
you know, is this memory real or not. She's the

441
00:31:13,559 --> 00:31:16,640
one who would know. And in between this we get

442
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,720
a fascinating conversation between him and Joy where he has

443
00:31:20,759 --> 00:31:23,559
already begun to suspect that he is the child, and

444
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,839
Joy says, of course you are. You know, you always

445
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,599
knew you were special. And she says, well, you know,

446
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,079
if you're a real person, if you were born, you

447
00:31:31,079 --> 00:31:33,759
should have a name. So she gives him the name

448
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,400
of Joe, basically saying like, you're the chosen one.

449
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:38,039
Speaker 1: This is you.

450
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,079
Speaker 4: But when he goes to doctor Stealine, he finds out

451
00:31:42,319 --> 00:31:44,799
this is a f This is someone else's memory. It

452
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,640
is not yours, which we find out as a major

453
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,440
faux Paul. The memories are supposed to be entirely synthetic.

454
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,680
But nonetheless, you know, he has been given someone else's memory.

455
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,839
He is not, and he hasn't quite come to believe

456
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,960
it yet. Sort of this this chosen One, uh, just

457
00:32:03,039 --> 00:32:05,799
kind of running through the plot some more.

458
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: Uh.

459
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 4: This is effectively when he decides to break, where he

460
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,160
decides to you know, leave the kind of his programming

461
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,519
we see, you know, a rerun. This is at both

462
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:20,319
the beginning and kind of the midpoint of the film

463
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,559
of the void comp Test, where he.

464
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the baseline test.

465
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:29,279
Speaker 5: But it's it's interesting how it's uh, because again it's

466
00:32:29,319 --> 00:32:32,839
opposite coded, you know, like the the void comp test

467
00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:36,640
is to like determine, you know, it's it's it's the

468
00:32:36,759 --> 00:32:41,079
it's to determine, you know, empathetic responses and normal emotional range,

469
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,400
because a replicant is supposed to lack those things. Like

470
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,559
the baseline tests, it picks up on emotional responses and like.

471
00:32:49,559 --> 00:32:52,519
Speaker 1: Empathetic reactions, you know.

472
00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:56,599
Speaker 5: So it's the exact opposite of void comp Yeah, it's fascinating.

473
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,240
Both those segments are really really well written.

474
00:33:00,119 --> 00:33:03,559
Speaker 4: So well, certainly, and there's and I don't have it

475
00:33:03,599 --> 00:33:05,359
in front of me, but you can pick up on

476
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:08,960
references in that test which are sort of interesting both

477
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,640
to the film and also to literature as well. But

478
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,440
he's blown the test. He's completely off of his baseline program.

479
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:20,599
And we understand that replicants who are not baseline are eliminated, right,

480
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,640
they don't last. But he goes in to talk to

481
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,240
his boss to talk to you, madam, and he lies

482
00:33:28,279 --> 00:33:31,640
to her, which is interesting. This comes back again because

483
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,240
the common received wisdom is that replicants can't lie. And

484
00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:38,440
he says, oh, I killed the child, and she was

485
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,480
grateful for this, This crisis has been averted. And she says,

486
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:44,079
you know what, I can't help you, but I can

487
00:33:44,119 --> 00:33:46,799
get you out of here. You can leave. You did

488
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,920
you saved the world, so at least she thinks, right,

489
00:33:51,079 --> 00:33:55,200
you're free to go. And so he's now on the

490
00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:59,039
run and we get to in my mind, what is

491
00:33:59,119 --> 00:34:02,440
one of the most interesting scenes in the movie with

492
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,920
this this character of Joy, because again we see this

493
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,320
kind of clash between how Joy is marketed, which is

494
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,119
basically as a sex spot. You know, she's you know,

495
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:17,039
kind of dripping with you know, sexuality, but Kay's version

496
00:34:17,079 --> 00:34:20,360
of her is just this sort of idyllic domestic scene.

497
00:34:20,519 --> 00:34:23,320
You know, there's very little kind of sexuality to it.

498
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,800
You sort of get the feeling that what Kay actually

499
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,840
wants is just a family. He wants to have a

500
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,960
sort of human relationship. And earlier in the film, while

501
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,039
he started this investigation, we sort of see, as you've mentioned,

502
00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:39,360
this sort of rebellion teased earlier, but he interacts with

503
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,960
these prostitutes, one of whom you know, basically tried to

504
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,599
get some information out of him. It didn't work, And

505
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,239
several times throughout it, Joy is basically mentioned like, oh,

506
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,440
I know you like her, and we hear this again

507
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,639
and again she can tell you know that he's attracted

508
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:57,400
to certain women and so unbeknownst to him, right before

509
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:02,440
he goes on the run, Hea sickly calls a prostitute

510
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,840
into his room and layers herself on top of it,

511
00:35:06,159 --> 00:35:10,199
right she she projects her sort of digital appearance onto

512
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,599
this I guess replicant but still physical woman. The two

513
00:35:14,599 --> 00:35:17,440
of them, you know, spend the night together, and it's

514
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,760
an interesting dynamic socially, of course, you know, because she

515
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,360
is sort of Joy rather has brought this other woman

516
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,599
into their relationship as it is. But you know, it's

517
00:35:28,639 --> 00:35:31,360
this sort of you know, blending of on one hand,

518
00:35:31,519 --> 00:35:35,039
and he has an emotional relationship with a digital person

519
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,239
who may or may not have any sort of soul.

520
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's fascinating too because Joy, you know, Joy's an

521
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:47,280
integrated is an is an integrated AI, you know, to

522
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,559
all of his other platforms, so she knows what he's

523
00:35:49,559 --> 00:35:51,960
searching for. She knows what kinds of girls he looks at,

524
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:57,079
you know, like just on his on his devices and things.

525
00:35:57,599 --> 00:36:01,800
So you know, it can Joy might just be curiating

526
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,840
his preferences, you know, to develop a pleasing interactive persona

527
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,239
you know, I mean that's not the whole story, but

528
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,559
it's an aspect of it, you know, which is really interesting.

529
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, now that that scene is uh is keeno man?

530
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,559
Speaker 4: Well, And and the way that it concludes, where you

531
00:36:20,599 --> 00:36:24,119
know he's on the run, is particularly interesting because we

532
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,760
see Joy as well break at least we would assume

533
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,000
with her program because she says, look like, you know,

534
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,440
if you're going to take me with you, one, you

535
00:36:33,559 --> 00:36:37,800
need to delete me from your house, from the device here,

536
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:43,000
because they'll have access to everything about you, which is interesting, right.

537
00:36:43,039 --> 00:36:45,400
We see a certain degree of you know, sacrifice there.

538
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,480
But she says, we two things. One, you can transfer

539
00:36:48,559 --> 00:36:51,519
me under this little it's basically USB stick, right, something

540
00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:54,320
he can carry around that allows her to follow him,

541
00:36:54,639 --> 00:36:56,760
which and he says, he's like, well, if it breaks,

542
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,920
you're dead, because you know, your backup years is gone.

543
00:37:00,599 --> 00:37:03,239
And she says, yeah, well it's now I can die

544
00:37:03,519 --> 00:37:06,679
just like you. And also what's particularly interesting is she

545
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:12,079
tells him to disable the transmitter in that physical device,

546
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,280
the thing that communicates between the thing that he's holding

547
00:37:15,639 --> 00:37:19,159
and Wallace, right, which is interesting, right if she is

548
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,239
entirely you know, a creation or at least still programmed

549
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,480
by Wallace, why would she do that sort of an

550
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:33,039
interesting thing there? So they basically head out. They run.

551
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,960
We have a brief scene where he analyzes the chemical

552
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,360
content of this wooden horse, finds out that it is

553
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,159
contaminated with the remnants of the dirty bomb. The closest

554
00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:48,039
location is Las Vegas, right that was hit by a

555
00:37:48,039 --> 00:37:50,800
dirty bomb, and so he flies to Las Vegas now

556
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:55,400
on the run for his life as a replicant on baseline.

557
00:37:55,599 --> 00:37:59,440
The visuals of Las Vegas are insane. It's this again

558
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,239
out sort of like hedenic city. You know, there are

559
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,400
these giant, you know, naked women statues kind of sinking

560
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,800
into the dust. You know, it's it's it looks like

561
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,480
the surface of Mars. It's you know, very stunning visually.

562
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:18,480
And while he's there, he finds life, he finds bees.

563
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,159
These lead him to confrontation with Deckert.

564
00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:24,559
Speaker 1: Uh.

565
00:38:24,599 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 4: The confrontation with Deckert is really fascinating for a number

566
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,840
of reasons. Uh, I figured you would particularly enjoy. They

567
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,199
have this sort of fight in a holographic sort of

568
00:38:35,199 --> 00:38:38,000
display center in the casino that he's holed up in,

569
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,199
which is sort of semi functional. So there it's not

570
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,679
even really a fight. Decord's just hitting him and k

571
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,079
is taking the damage. But in the midst of sort

572
00:38:47,079 --> 00:38:50,119
of a holographic Elvis concert, which is glitching out and

573
00:38:50,119 --> 00:38:53,159
cutting in and cutting out. Uh So, anyway, I've covered

574
00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:55,039
a lot of ground there, Thomas, anything you want to

575
00:38:55,039 --> 00:38:55,559
respond to.

576
00:38:56,039 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the just real quick too.

577
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 5: It's obvious where Deckard's hold up and some it's some

578
00:39:00,519 --> 00:39:03,239
sort of Blade Runner world version of the Luxor.

579
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,639
Speaker 1: I think it's like you know, and.

580
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 5: Like the the the giant sculptures of the nude women

581
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:20,519
are are mildly uh or loosely themed, like in an

582
00:39:20,599 --> 00:39:24,880
Egyptian way, and it it's really fascinating, and especially because

583
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,519
like Vegas in our world is becoming kind of post apocalyptic.

584
00:39:28,639 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: But it.

585
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,599
Speaker 5: But no, and I think, uh, Deckard also was essential

586
00:39:33,639 --> 00:39:36,199
to the plot. I it's something that was really off

587
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,440
base that a lot of people who were really punitive

588
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,639
and they're reviewing with the film, they said, oh, this

589
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,199
is just some dumb cameo or it's fan service something

590
00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:47,400
like you know, you don't get the movie then you know,

591
00:39:47,519 --> 00:39:50,519
like it's not that's not what it is at all.

592
00:39:51,159 --> 00:39:56,119
But yeah, I think, uh, what's also important the whole

593
00:39:57,519 --> 00:40:05,400
you know, the uh yeah, joy is both developing true

594
00:40:05,679 --> 00:40:10,840
splendid self awareness and consciousness. But uh, you know, there's

595
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:20,199
also an aspect of of a of simply reactive programming,

596
00:40:21,159 --> 00:40:25,760
you know, but that's the whole. There's a lot of

597
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,599
nonsense that goes into this sort of speculation about the

598
00:40:30,599 --> 00:40:35,800
potentiality of quantum computing, the things, especially kind of broad

599
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:43,400
applications therein but one thing that is true, and this

600
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:48,400
this gets into some very complex stuff, you know, the

601
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:54,480
anthropic principle and things like that, and the nature of mind, and.

602
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 1: There's this, there's this.

603
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 5: It's a philosophical postulate, but when you're dealing with highly

604
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,079
theoretical physics and things, you know, what's philosophical and what

605
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:13,760
constitutes arguably, you know, scientific theory, it kind of collapses

606
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:18,159
on itself. But there is a there is an idea

607
00:41:18,639 --> 00:41:26,280
that consciousness is the universe essentially perceiving itself, and consciousness

608
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:32,280
tries to this almost sounds Lamarckian or something, but it's.

609
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 1: If there's a.

610
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 5: The raw potentiality for mind to develop, you know, it conscious,

611
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:49,159
the configuration of these variables like tends towards consciousness. I'm

612
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:58,360
oversimplifying profoundly, but you know that's that obviously has profound significance,

613
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,920
and any sort of treatment of artificial intelligence, you know,

614
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,440
in terms of it's in terms of its nature and

615
00:42:05,519 --> 00:42:10,400
essence as well as potentialities. And that obviously is very

616
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:15,199
much an aspect of Blade Runner, not just you know,

617
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,360
an aspect of the not just a plot device to

618
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,880
carry the story forward and to post questions relevant to

619
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:27,880
the underlying sort of ethical schema that informs the entire narrative,

620
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,400
but it's it's also a real thing.

621
00:42:31,159 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 1: You know. Mind is very mysterious.

622
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 5: I mean to say the least that that sounds literally basic,

623
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,559
but I you know, one of the whole one of

624
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:50,800
the reasons why computing is a is important. It's not

625
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:58,039
just because it expedites processes, you know, which because you're

626
00:42:58,039 --> 00:43:02,840
you're modeling a you're modeling a mind, albeit at this

627
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,440
juncture in you know, very rudimentary ways. But the only

628
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:13,400
way to truly understand what thought is and what consciousness

629
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:18,639
is is to reverse engineer something that's capable of thinking,

630
00:43:19,559 --> 00:43:26,159
you know. And that's one of the really fascinating aspects

631
00:43:26,159 --> 00:43:29,840
I think of blave Runner. It's not just a fantasy piece,

632
00:43:30,599 --> 00:43:33,440
you know it. And that's why, like I said at

633
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,199
the top of the or, I think, in many respects

634
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,679
it came true, and that continues to be.

635
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 1: Revealed. You know. That was one of the but that

636
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:46,760
was the strength of Philip K. Dick.

637
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,159
Speaker 5: I said, you know, I really like a scander darkly

638
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:54,039
as well. And I think that actually the film is dope.

639
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,599
I think I mentioned that last time, you know, and

640
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,960
it's I I'm a fan of rotalsping even I know

641
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,400
some people in that's a gimmicky But because in May

642
00:44:03,559 --> 00:44:13,320
Philip K. Dick, he uh, the he was obviously a

643
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,840
guy who spent a lot of time with phenomenology. I

644
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,960
mean he I mean that's well known, but he you know, uh,

645
00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:27,320
the experience of the discreet self, the inner lives of

646
00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:37,639
individual people, you know, immersed in a hyper technologically driven

647
00:44:38,599 --> 00:44:45,760
environment where the kind of reference points whereby people orient

648
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:51,360
themselves in you know, conscious waking life. He was really

649
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:58,840
good at conveying the confusion of that and the difficulty

650
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:06,440
and negotiating human affairs, both you know, in an individual

651
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:11,039
and and collective capacity.

652
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:12,199
Speaker 1: You know.

653
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:17,079
Speaker 5: And he was the guy who struggled with mental illness.

654
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:23,360
But I believe too that was one of the reasons

655
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,840
he was able to convey these sort of psychic and

656
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:33,039
emotional states. So effectively because a lot of I mean,

657
00:45:33,079 --> 00:45:38,000
mental illness is sort of an open ended term conceptually.

658
00:45:38,119 --> 00:45:47,760
But I believe people are psychically sensitive. There's a symbolic

659
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,880
psychology is kind of like IQ, okay. I believe it

660
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,320
can be measured, and I believe that there's a very

661
00:45:54,360 --> 00:46:05,320
wide range of personality types therein or configurations as of

662
00:46:05,599 --> 00:46:09,320
mind and personality as it were. People who are emotionally

663
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:16,800
and psychically sensitive, particularly the psychological aspects in their environment

664
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:24,280
of a symbolic character. Technological living is really really disruptive

665
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:32,960
to them. I see that in myself, okay, and everybody

666
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:37,039
experiences that to some degree. It's not rarefied, but some

667
00:46:37,079 --> 00:46:42,559
people can adapt to it more effectively than others. And

668
00:46:44,519 --> 00:46:48,480
I think of people who are particularly signsitive in that way,

669
00:46:49,159 --> 00:46:55,920
they're almost a metaphysical weather vein, you know, because that

670
00:46:56,039 --> 00:47:04,199
there's this odd juxtaposition where by as human life is

671
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:11,239
extended and shortages are eliminated, and creature comforts and other

672
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,719
things are facilitated by high tech that would have been

673
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,639
unthinkable even a generation ago, the trade off is that

674
00:47:18,679 --> 00:47:23,320
there's profoundly anti human aspects to what is yielded by

675
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,519
these things, you know, and like I said, you know,

676
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,840
at the top of the out where this technology develops

677
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:35,840
its own momentum. You know, it's completely paradigm changing. And

678
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,920
that's uh, you know, that's one of the reasons why

679
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:45,280
the it's almost almost a subplot involving k Enjoys relationship.

680
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 1: I mean obviously that it drives the main story. But

681
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:49,159
even if.

682
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,679
Speaker 5: You know, you can't you can't control who or what

683
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,800
you fall in love with, even if it even if

684
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:05,840
even if an AI is not truly sentient and it's

685
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:11,559
purely you know, reactively like a reactive algorithm, if a

686
00:48:11,679 --> 00:48:14,960
rational man of at least average intelligence falls in love

687
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,440
with it, I mean that that's the state he finds

688
00:48:18,519 --> 00:48:22,639
himself in. You know, you can't reason your way out

689
00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:30,079
of those sorts of psychic and emotional states, you know,

690
00:48:30,119 --> 00:48:33,280
And like I said, particularly somebody who's sensitive to the

691
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:39,800
more symbolic aspects of psychological experience, that could be devastating

692
00:48:40,159 --> 00:48:42,039
to them, you know.

693
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: But I mean the.

694
00:48:43,679 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 5: Film, like the way they're I don't want to give

695
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,760
away the plot. He hasn't seen it, but it is

696
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:54,199
devastating what becomes the relationship, but does a bit rambly

697
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:58,000
but that you know, it's a profect. I highly recommend it,

698
00:48:58,119 --> 00:49:01,159
just like I do Prometheus, even for people aren't particularly

699
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,079
into science fiction. Prometheis is a very profound film, and

700
00:49:05,119 --> 00:49:15,719
so is Covenant. It's sequel, Blade Runner is a superior film.

701
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 1: But uh, you know, I.

702
00:49:18,039 --> 00:49:20,679
Speaker 5: It's something that people should especially people who take an

703
00:49:20,679 --> 00:49:26,960
interest in, you know, the situation we and our feeble

704
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,079
fin o souls in. It's it's a film they should

705
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:33,280
watch and take seriously, especially these days when people correctly,

706
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:38,280
you know, lament the fact that there's there's not really

707
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:42,880
worthwhile stuff, and you know, in in the mainstream culture.

708
00:49:43,559 --> 00:49:45,079
Speaker 1: You know that. I mean, don't get me wrong.

709
00:49:45,199 --> 00:49:48,119
Speaker 5: I think there's incredible stuff being produced that's outside of

710
00:49:48,159 --> 00:49:52,840
the mainstream. But I know, people, one of the things

711
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,599
that America has to offer traditionally and in terms of

712
00:49:56,599 --> 00:50:00,880
the arts is cinema. It's like, okay, well, something like

713
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:02,960
better in a twenty forty nine and that's that is

714
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,280
a big movie, and it's very profound and very relevant.

715
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:07,639
Speaker 1: You know.

716
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:14,519
Speaker 4: That's certainly, and I want to append to that once

717
00:50:14,559 --> 00:50:16,800
we get a little bit further in the plot, but

718
00:50:17,119 --> 00:50:20,920
sort of running through this, Key and Deckard have this conversation,

719
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,320
you know, they basically going over you know what happened,

720
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,639
and Deckard basically says like, look like we knew this,

721
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:35,000
she was gonna be hunted forever. We knew that this

722
00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:38,119
was an inevitability. So he basically said, he's like, well,

723
00:50:38,159 --> 00:50:41,760
I I've never met my daughter. It was immediately realized

724
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,079
we had to be on the run. Now what we

725
00:50:44,119 --> 00:50:46,519
do see is that, you know, he still has a

726
00:50:46,519 --> 00:50:49,159
great deal of affection for her. Right, we see this

727
00:50:49,599 --> 00:50:51,719
horse that Kay has been carrying around, and we see

728
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:53,599
that it's part of a set. You know, Deckard has

729
00:50:53,639 --> 00:50:57,719
whittled this collection of other you know, animals, the horse,

730
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:01,119
the one he gave to his daughter U and so

731
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,519
basically they you know, they have this conversation where he's like, yeah,

732
00:51:05,559 --> 00:51:08,880
well like sometimes you know, talking about like, you know,

733
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,159
in order to protect my daughter, I needed to never

734
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,400
interact with her, never see her, and never know anything

735
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:13,920
about her.

736
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: Uh.

737
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 4: Now, what we see very quickly is that, uh, you know,

738
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,519
the Wallace Corporation has been following k They go in

739
00:51:23,039 --> 00:51:27,119
or Love does to the police station and kills madam.

740
00:51:27,679 --> 00:51:31,679
It's another fascinating instance because you know, she initially the

741
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,840
head of the LAPD is smug. She says, oh, you know,

742
00:51:36,039 --> 00:51:39,000
Carrite killed her. It's done. Love is, of course, you know,

743
00:51:39,119 --> 00:51:41,039
furious with her, like you, saying like, do you have

744
00:51:41,039 --> 00:51:43,920
any idea? You know, you just want you You saw

745
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,159
a miracle and you wanted to kill it. And as

746
00:51:47,199 --> 00:51:51,159
part of that, she, you know, Love rather confronts her

747
00:51:51,199 --> 00:51:55,039
and says like, oh, you think we can't lie. He

748
00:51:55,119 --> 00:51:57,519
lied to you, and not only that, I'm going to

749
00:51:57,519 --> 00:51:59,840
tell my boss that you tried to shoot me. And

750
00:52:00,199 --> 00:52:03,960
she kills her, uses her and kind of a bizarre,

751
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,440
really brutal scene brings up this deceased woman's head to

752
00:52:08,679 --> 00:52:11,400
you know, scan into her computer and then finds out,

753
00:52:11,639 --> 00:52:13,599
you know, where K is. So they send this sort

754
00:52:13,599 --> 00:52:17,159
of you know, hit team to you know, to collect

755
00:52:17,159 --> 00:52:21,159
the two of them, kind of moving through some things,

756
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:26,480
they capture DECKERD seemingly kill K and as part of that,

757
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:32,039
K's which Love has remarked upon multiple times like oh,

758
00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:34,760
you know you use our products, referring to Joy. He

759
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:39,360
drops this and she steps on it, killing Joy and

760
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:43,079
there's this kind of heartbreaking scene where her hologram pops

761
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:45,800
out and she's sort of diving towards K on the

762
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:50,840
ground and then is Smash is killed completely done. Uh,

763
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,480
Deckard is taken back to Wallace basically to try and

764
00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:57,079
you know, get out of him somehow, you know, where

765
00:52:57,119 --> 00:52:59,639
his his daughter is again, because you know, it's what

766
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,599
the you know, the owner of the company once and

767
00:53:03,119 --> 00:53:05,280
Kay in the meantime, is sort of nursed back to

768
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:10,239
health by this resistance movement, which we've you know, mentioned before.

769
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:15,599
It seems as if, uh, it's not explicitly stated decord,

770
00:53:16,039 --> 00:53:19,480
but certainly Rachel and the Sapper from the beginning of

771
00:53:19,519 --> 00:53:23,559
this movie were connected to this resistance group. The woman

772
00:53:23,559 --> 00:53:26,280
who runs it, who has uh, you know, her eye

773
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,440
removed so that she can't be proven to be a replicant.

774
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:31,599
I guess the code is on the bottom of the eye.

775
00:53:31,679 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's that's why they don't they can replicants anymore,

776
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,760
because they can just check their they can just check

777
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:38,599
their cornium.

778
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

779
00:53:39,559 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 5: And as the original Rachel was, you know, she was

780
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:48,719
she was a prototype, so presumably she was, uh, she was,

781
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,239
she was the first. She was the prototype for Nexus nines,

782
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:56,039
you know, so she was kind of the is she

783
00:53:56,159 --> 00:53:59,440
she was like the first of their kind, as it were.

784
00:54:01,119 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 4: And so they basically charge k They're like, look, like,

785
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,280
you know, this is we're going to turn over the world,

786
00:54:07,559 --> 00:54:10,800
but you need to kill Deckerd because he can't be

787
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:15,039
allowed to give this up. So he's you know pashed

788
00:54:15,039 --> 00:54:18,079
back together, you know, sent back on a mission now

789
00:54:18,119 --> 00:54:22,559
to get Deckerd before the kind of final climax of

790
00:54:22,599 --> 00:54:26,599
the movie. Uh, there's there's one scene which is infamous.

791
00:54:26,639 --> 00:54:29,679
You've seen this screenshot from this is a meme before

792
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:33,880
where Deckerd is walking across this sort of skybridge, you know,

793
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,199
lit and very kind of neon, you know, purple and blue,

794
00:54:37,679 --> 00:54:43,239
and he sees a skyscraper sized advertisement for Joy now

795
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,039
again right, you know, in this context it's a you know,

796
00:54:46,159 --> 00:54:50,480
very sexualized version of that. And so she's talking to him,

797
00:54:50,519 --> 00:54:52,599
talking to you know, trying to basically get him to

798
00:54:52,599 --> 00:54:55,920
be a customer. It's not actually the same Joy that

799
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:00,239
he knew. It's simply a talking billboard. And you know,

800
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,679
in addition to be obviously heartbreaking for k what's really

801
00:55:03,679 --> 00:55:06,039
interesting there is, you know, when she's talking to him,

802
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:08,719
she basically says like, oh, you know, you look like

803
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,280
a good Joe, Joe being the name that his version

804
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,400
of Joy gave to him when he thought he was

805
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,159
special and again the tagline, you know, she tells you

806
00:55:17,199 --> 00:55:20,079
whatever you want to hear, adding a kind of a

807
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:22,840
twist to that question of like is she sentient or

808
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:27,880
was this simply a particularly well developed algorithm, you know,

809
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,480
playing on his emotions, or he sees that that name

810
00:55:30,679 --> 00:55:32,920
was built into her from the start. You know that

811
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,719
even a billboard has that. So that's kind of the

812
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,519
you know, the codea to to their relationship. It's it's

813
00:55:38,519 --> 00:55:41,960
a it's a grim scene, a really grim scene.

814
00:55:42,159 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, it's not it's not a I mean that

815
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:48,639
the film ends with.

816
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:54,760
Speaker 5: The on a hopeful message and you know, like I

817
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,199
said too, like Wallace was even isn't even really a

818
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:04,719
villain and you know, in universal terms, but yeah, it is.

819
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:11,119
It's it's definitely, uh, it's it's definitely a tragedy.

820
00:56:12,599 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 4: Well, and it's important to mention. I guess I skipped

821
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,360
over this. I should have mentioned that. While he's talking

822
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,920
to this resistance leader, she even says it's like, oh,

823
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,079
you know, you thought you were special, like you wanted

824
00:56:23,079 --> 00:56:26,039
to be the child. Well we all did, because he

825
00:56:26,039 --> 00:56:27,480
he says like, oh, well there was the girl, but

826
00:56:27,519 --> 00:56:30,119
there's also the boy, Like he there's the boy. Too,

827
00:56:30,159 --> 00:56:32,199
and she tells him like, no, that was fake. We

828
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,280
did that specifically to throw people off the set.

829
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, the being rendered anonymous, I mean, that's that's what

830
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:51,840
psychologically devastating about, you know, uh, alienation within the historical

831
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:56,039
process and late modernity, you know.

832
00:56:56,079 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 1: And that's why.

833
00:56:58,159 --> 00:57:01,079
Speaker 5: Stripping people in their cultural situation, the ability to live

834
00:57:01,159 --> 00:57:06,559
historically everything else aside you know it, you know, and

835
00:57:06,559 --> 00:57:10,400
and the alienation from one's fellow man and their ethnos

836
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:14,239
and their race and their family and everything else. It

837
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,360
it renders people anonymous, you know, and that that's why

838
00:57:17,599 --> 00:57:20,559
it codes this bizarre kind of narcissism into the culture.

839
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:21,559
Speaker 1: You know.

840
00:57:21,679 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 5: But so everybody's grasping its straws to for some sort

841
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:32,480
of distinction that overcomes that anonymity. And that's profound too,

842
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,000
you know, and very timely obviously. So yeah, that that's

843
00:57:36,039 --> 00:57:37,920
a huge aspect.

844
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: Of the uh of the you know, commentary and the

845
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,840
human condition of the film.

846
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,599
Speaker 4: So the before we get to kind of the the

847
00:57:51,599 --> 00:57:55,400
climax of the film, we see that Deckard has been

848
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,360
brought back to Wallace and he's sitting you know, at

849
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,559
this sort of and again the arc a texture of

850
00:58:00,559 --> 00:58:03,719
Wallace is wild it's sort of this you know, seventies

851
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:08,039
brutalist future, very very cool addition to anything else. But

852
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:12,119
you know, he's talking to Neander Wallace and love and

853
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,719
you know, there's sort of a brief back and forth,

854
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:19,519
but Wallace brings out a sort of I was gonna say,

855
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:22,039
I guess they're obviously a replicant but sort of a

856
00:58:22,079 --> 00:58:26,639
copy of Rachel and basically offers this, like, I can

857
00:58:26,679 --> 00:58:30,000
give you back the woman you loved, and he plays

858
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:34,159
you know, some recordings from the first film of their interaction,

859
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,320
you know, basically kind of questioning like, oh, like were

860
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:39,920
you were you really in love with her, which is

861
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:44,400
sort of interesting, and Deckard basically fit back in his face.

862
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:47,000
He says no, like that's that's not her. Her eyes

863
00:58:47,039 --> 00:58:52,920
were green, and very dramatically, the Replicans just executed right

864
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:54,800
in front of him, and that's sort of the last

865
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:58,079
time we see you know, Wallace in the film. But

866
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,239
you know, now k is chase them, Decord is being

867
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,239
moved and and Kay you know, shoots him down and

868
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:06,400
as of yet we actually don't know if he's going

869
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,159
to you know, kill Decerd or something else.

870
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:11,159
Speaker 1: The sort of the.

871
00:59:11,199 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 4: Flying car carrying him crashes on the beach right next

872
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,280
to this wall. You know, this sort of again repeated

873
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:24,800
motif throughout the film. H the he the drama is

874
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,719
sort of, you know, this plane is crashed and the

875
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,639
tide is coming in. You know he's going to drown,

876
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:34,039
and you know he's able to defeat you know, love

877
00:59:34,119 --> 00:59:37,800
to rescue Decerd, but is mortally wounded in the process.

878
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,679
And you know, as he is dying, right as he's

879
00:59:41,719 --> 00:59:45,679
sort of bleeding out, he takes decord to the doctor

880
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:47,159
from earlier in the movie.

881
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: His daughter.

882
00:59:49,079 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 4: We find out initially when she's introduced that this this

883
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:56,039
woman has been you know, locked in this building since

884
00:59:56,079 --> 01:00:00,239
she was eight, forbidden from leaving, ostensibly for you know,

885
01:00:00,239 --> 01:00:02,400
the reasons of illness. We don't actually know if that's

886
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,599
true or not. Is entirely possible that was just a

887
01:00:04,679 --> 01:00:08,800
ruse to keep her from being discovered. But Deckard walks

888
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,440
in to you know, meet his daughter after twenty eight

889
01:00:11,519 --> 01:00:15,440
years and kay again in a moment you have seen,

890
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,119
sort of lays down on the steps and bleeds out

891
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:22,320
and that's the end of the film. Before he expires,

892
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,159
he says, you know, Deckard, you're dead, like you died

893
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:28,519
in that crash. No one will. Everyone thinks you're gone.

894
01:00:28,559 --> 01:00:31,239
You're free now. And so that is the kind of

895
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:33,920
you know, hopeful conclusion, right that you know, Deckard has

896
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:37,000
a chance at you know, life with his daughter obviously,

897
01:00:37,239 --> 01:00:39,880
you know, she is a miracle. Another term that is

898
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:44,199
repeated throughout this you know kind of born of a

899
01:00:44,639 --> 01:00:47,760
you know, a replicant. And yeah, that's the way the

900
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,360
film wraps up. I'll throw it back to you, Thomas

901
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:51,880
before we make more concluding remarks.

902
01:00:53,679 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the fact that Case sacrifices himself, you know

903
01:00:58,039 --> 01:01:02,159
that that mirrors Roy Baddy a different way, you know,

904
01:01:03,199 --> 01:01:06,880
And it's uh, it's clear that I think a lot

905
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:10,039
of people miss that because Kay is you're supposed to

906
01:01:10,039 --> 01:01:13,639
associate k with Roy Batty, not with Deckard, you know.

907
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,159
The the only commonality of that.

908
01:01:17,239 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 4: And that's visually something we see quite often. Like there's

909
01:01:20,559 --> 01:01:23,400
multiple instances of much like the conclusion to Blade Runner

910
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:26,719
of Kay breaking through or punching through walls in a

911
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:31,000
very identical way. Uh, you know, even actually the kind

912
01:01:31,039 --> 01:01:34,239
of you know, end of the you know, second act

913
01:01:34,239 --> 01:01:36,440
when he's running to catch up with Deckard as he's

914
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:39,760
being dragged out and just runs straight through a wall. Right,

915
01:01:40,599 --> 01:01:43,079
obviously emphasizing the fact that both that he's not human

916
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,840
and you know, it's sort of what we saw in

917
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:47,719
the first film. Sorry you finished that thought?

918
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 1: Well, no, and it's no that Yeah, that's what I

919
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:50,599
was getting at.

920
01:01:50,719 --> 01:01:53,199
Speaker 5: And well also to the fact that Wallace is blind,

921
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:57,599
you know, and Tyrrell lost his eyes you know, at

922
01:01:57,599 --> 01:02:01,119
the hands of Roy Batty. It's very uh, but it's

923
01:02:01,159 --> 01:02:05,519
not it's not derivative and it's not it's not a

924
01:02:05,639 --> 01:02:12,840
corny the the ways of twenty forty nine mirrors the original.

925
01:02:13,079 --> 01:02:19,159
It makes sense and you know, there's it's very sophisticated

926
01:02:19,559 --> 01:02:23,079
scripting and storytelling. Again, like how the uh we'll also

927
01:02:23,079 --> 01:02:29,320
compare Madam to uh, you know, the the Blade Runner

928
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:30,440
Division chief.

929
01:02:31,719 --> 01:02:33,079
Speaker 1: In the original.

930
01:02:33,639 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 5: You know, he's he's like this, he's like this alcoholic

931
01:02:35,519 --> 01:02:39,920
degenerate you know, uh in this Rundown office, you know,

932
01:02:41,239 --> 01:02:45,159
in things that progress in some ways but deteriorated in others.

933
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:51,559
But regardless, there actually is a there is an ethical

934
01:02:51,559 --> 01:02:56,960
and sociological framework that's developed around how to handle you know,

935
01:02:57,159 --> 01:03:05,639
this catastrophic disruptive technology upon which the entire social order

936
01:03:05,719 --> 01:03:09,719
and everything else is based, you know, and like it's

937
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:13,639
very Hegelian, you know, in terms of how it's like

938
01:03:13,719 --> 01:03:16,599
this is the world we knew and you know, nineteen

939
01:03:16,599 --> 01:03:20,480
eighty two Blade Runner, it's very much you know, but

940
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,880
but it's very much, you know, forty years later, you know,

941
01:03:25,239 --> 01:03:29,800
but it seems like a very organic development. And you know,

942
01:03:30,159 --> 01:03:38,239
the diological process is has you know again devised u

943
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:46,840
an entire sociological paradigm, you know, around the reality of

944
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:49,760
of of this replicant cast, you know, in a way

945
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:53,800
that's much less ad hoc and scattershot and you know,

946
01:03:54,039 --> 01:03:58,480
uh and and.

947
01:03:58,639 --> 01:03:59,559
Speaker 1: And and violent.

948
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:05,239
Speaker 5: You know, that's the metaphor of the of the Sea

949
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:08,280
wall once again, you know, things are a lot more orderly,

950
01:04:09,039 --> 01:04:11,519
you know. And also like the vision of wall Is,

951
01:04:11,559 --> 01:04:14,039
just is just is just grander, you know, I mean,

952
01:04:14,079 --> 01:04:17,639
I he's he's a better man than Tyrrell because Tyrell

953
01:04:17,719 --> 01:04:24,320
wasn't a lot of ways quite villainous, I think, and

954
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:28,400
uh hebriistic, you know.

955
01:04:28,599 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: Uh.

956
01:04:30,719 --> 01:04:35,519
Speaker 5: Wallis's notion is uh, you know, to guide human evolution.

957
01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:38,559
I mean, and that that's the way of playing got too.

958
01:04:38,599 --> 01:04:43,079
But everything, everything, every every everything man does like the

959
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:47,840
first man who whittled a spear point out of a stick,

960
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:54,280
you know, altered the course of human development. You know,

961
01:04:54,360 --> 01:05:00,920
there's no way that any sort of technology go innovation

962
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:08,320
and deliberate, you know, cultivation of of of a technological apparatus,

963
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,440
no matter how primitive or complicated, just the very act

964
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:17,880
of doing that alters the course of human development. So

965
01:05:19,079 --> 01:05:21,880
you know, this idea that it's you know, man is

966
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:28,320
playing god by interfering with evolution, and that's not I mean,

967
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:29,920
that's a light way of looking at it.

968
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:35,119
Speaker 4: But especially in a world that's been is sort of

969
01:05:35,119 --> 01:05:37,320
bathed in nuclear fire exactly.

970
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:37,639
Speaker 1: Yeah.

971
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 4: If nothing is done, humanity will die.

972
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's another thing too.

973
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:44,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, in Blavory world that we talked about, you know,

974
01:05:44,719 --> 01:05:49,280
there's been a nuclear war and the planet is dying

975
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:52,559
and can no longer bear fruit to sustain life at

976
01:05:52,599 --> 01:05:55,079
scale and you know, perpetuity.

977
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:57,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

978
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just some final note on that. We've mentioned

979
01:06:02,079 --> 01:06:05,320
that the cinematography is incredible. It's just a it's a

980
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:10,480
very pretty film. The first one also was. This one

981
01:06:10,719 --> 01:06:12,559
is like a lot of villainouves. It's it's a little

982
01:06:12,559 --> 01:06:16,199
more artistic, not to say anything bad about you know,

983
01:06:16,239 --> 01:06:21,079
what Scott did, but it is in some ways a

984
01:06:21,079 --> 01:06:26,840
little more abstract visually, but still very very good. I'll

985
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,760
give the nod to soundtrack to the first movie. The

986
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:33,280
second one is still quite good, but the first one

987
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,719
it's sort of unfair comparison, right, that's such a good soundtrack.

988
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 2: But.

989
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 4: Jealous, Yeah, yeah, no, they're still alive. I don't know

990
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:41,559
if he's working.

991
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:44,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I agree, And and it was. It was

992
01:06:44,559 --> 01:06:46,639
a good soundtrack in twenty four nine, don't get be wrong,

993
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:50,760
but it's not. It's not as iconic and and and

994
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:52,320
just top notch as the original.

995
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:53,639
Speaker 1: But that's a tough act to follow.

996
01:06:55,079 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 4: And then additionally, uh, visually, the film does quite a

997
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:04,559
good job, as you've said, sort of both indicating that

998
01:07:04,599 --> 01:07:08,559
technological progress has happened. It feels as if that is

999
01:07:08,559 --> 01:07:12,039
continuing at pace. But it is not sort of your average,

1000
01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:15,400
you know, blue sci fi. It is still very much

1001
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:18,320
in the kind of you know, analog and closely derived

1002
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:23,159
from analog technological technology of of the setting.

1003
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:25,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1004
01:07:25,639 --> 01:07:29,719
Speaker 4: I really have nothing bad to say about the film.

1005
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,920
It is worth seeing. I think that a lot of

1006
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:37,079
the complaints about it being sort of a low effort

1007
01:07:37,119 --> 01:07:41,280
reboot are unwarranted. There were many and still are you know,

1008
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:45,800
I'm obviously you know, every other kind of legacy property,

1009
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:50,480
your film from that era has been rebooted and kind

1010
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:52,960
of made worse. In this case, it is not really

1011
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:56,079
a reboot. It is very much still in seql territory.

1012
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:59,760
You I wouldn't say it entirely stands on its own.

1013
01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:02,239
You do need to have seen the first one. But

1014
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:05,559
it is still a very very good film and it

1015
01:08:05,599 --> 01:08:09,000
is not in any way sort of cheap or cashing

1016
01:08:09,159 --> 01:08:12,639
in on you know that that kind of nostalgia for

1017
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:13,719
the previous film.

1018
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 5: It's a story people either forget or they don't know.

1019
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:20,600
There was a whole bunch of.

1020
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:23,039
Speaker 1: There was.

1021
01:08:23,079 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 5: There's a few novel sequels to Blade Runner the movie,

1022
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:28,479
some of which were good, some are not so good.

1023
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 1: There's a really dope.

1024
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:32,560
Speaker 5: PC video game in the nineties called Blade Runner The

1025
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:35,800
Edge of Human There's been all kinds of world building

1026
01:08:36,079 --> 01:08:42,359
and you know, uh, sci fi novel sequels and stuff

1027
01:08:42,399 --> 01:08:44,640
to Blade Runner and stuff they used to pop up

1028
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:46,920
and like science fiction magazines like fan fiction.

1029
01:08:47,079 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 1: But that was well done. You know, this site, it's not.

1030
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:52,239
You can't compare this to one of these bullshit reboots

1031
01:08:52,239 --> 01:08:55,520
that's you know, just like a Rekwel or something like it. Doesn't.

1032
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:59,399
Speaker 5: This has been long and coming. It very much respects

1033
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:02,760
the sourceman Cereal. It very much advances the story, you know,

1034
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:06,800
and it's it's something that everybody knew would come to

1035
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:10,399
pass eventually when there was you know, the motivation and

1036
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,920
the capital investment and the right man at the helm

1037
01:09:14,039 --> 01:09:16,479
to make it come to pass. So, yeah, that's a

1038
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:19,920
bullshit claim when people drop it or suggest that.

1039
01:09:21,199 --> 01:09:23,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it continues, you know, as we've said, kind

1040
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:29,319
of around the the discussion. It expands the discussion around memory.

1041
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:32,880
Whereas before, you know, it is obviously there are human

1042
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:35,560
memories and then there are those who do not know

1043
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:38,159
that they are not human whose memories have been put

1044
01:09:38,199 --> 01:09:40,199
in them. Well, in the case of k we have,

1045
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:42,840
you know, both a man who knows that he is fake,

1046
01:09:43,399 --> 01:09:46,359
suspecting that he is not finding out that some of

1047
01:09:46,399 --> 01:09:49,920
his memories are real, they're not synthetic, they're just someone else's.

1048
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:53,359
And then again with Joy, right, it's that you know,

1049
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:57,000
if you start out completely programmed, but a crew memories,

1050
01:09:57,039 --> 01:10:01,560
but a crew experience, does that sold you. It's it's

1051
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:03,880
really interesting and as you've said before, right, the kind

1052
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:07,439
of reverse image of you know, first wondering you know,

1053
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:10,520
am I am I real? And then if I am fake,

1054
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:15,239
can am I human? It's obviously using an exact language there.

1055
01:10:15,319 --> 01:10:19,600
It's really fascinating. It's it's almost required viewing, and there's

1056
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:22,359
a reason it's so popular kind of in our circles.

1057
01:10:22,399 --> 01:10:25,800
But Thomas, I think we're probably hitting time. We can

1058
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:29,399
find your stuff obviously on substack, on your website. I'll

1059
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:31,279
be sure to link both of those. I think you

1060
01:10:31,319 --> 01:10:34,119
and I probably owe the people an episode of Radio

1061
01:10:34,119 --> 01:10:36,079
Free Chicago, So who knows, maybe we get that out

1062
01:10:36,079 --> 01:10:39,479
this week, maybe we don't. I highly recommend that check

1063
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:43,960
Thomas's stuff out as far as my stuff, Jay Burden Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube,

1064
01:10:44,159 --> 01:10:47,119
anywhere you listen to podcasts. I was just doing some

1065
01:10:47,119 --> 01:10:50,279
some sort of tabulation on kind of how things have grown,

1066
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:52,880
and it's gone really well. So I appreciate you guys

1067
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:55,960
for supporting me. That the patrons, the guys who pay

1068
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:58,439
me a few bucks a month, you guys are the

1069
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:00,880
reason I can do this. Really helped. I appreciate it.

1070
01:11:01,359 --> 01:11:04,079
You're interested in joining, you can have her head over

1071
01:11:04,119 --> 01:11:07,760
to gum Road, substack or Patreon. Get the episodes early

1072
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:10,159
in ed Free again. I know the ads are irritating,

1073
01:11:10,279 --> 01:11:13,520
but I've got a mortgage, so sorry, it's sort of

1074
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:15,560
a necessary evil. Or if you want to support us

1075
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:18,640
more directly, you just gave me money I at Crypto links.

1076
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:21,199
I can say I expect it, but you know it

1077
01:11:21,239 --> 01:11:23,439
is there if you want to, or our sponsor, Axios

1078
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:26,119
Remote Fitness Coaching. Thomas, thank you so much, man, This

1079
01:11:26,199 --> 01:11:29,359
was a really great conversation and I enjoyed this film

1080
01:11:29,399 --> 01:11:29,640
a lot.

1081
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, thank you, buddy. I appreciate you.

1082
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:34,760
Speaker 4: Actually, you know, I'm going to cite something specific that

1083
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:37,720
we should check out of yours. You've done two episodes

1084
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:41,079
now with my friend Andy Edwards. Those episodes are great.

1085
01:11:41,239 --> 01:11:45,479
I just finished Edward's first book, House of not House

1086
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:49,840
of Dog excuse me, King of domas earlier this week

1087
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:53,279
and really really enjoyed it. So check out his interview

1088
01:11:53,279 --> 01:11:57,560
there on his substack. It's well worth your time again, Thomas, Man,

1089
01:11:57,600 --> 01:11:59,159
it was done fun, ton of fun talking to you.

1090
01:11:59,680 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1091
01:12:00,119 --> 01:12:03,359
Speaker 4: Likewise ever at home, keep your head up? Why can't

1092
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:04,479
last forever? Good night?

1093
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 3: What what?

1094
01:12:20,199 --> 01:12:36,119
Speaker 2: But mhm