WEBVTT 1 00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:24.559 Welcome to teen Girl Talk, Teen Girl Talk. I'm ce 2 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:29.600 Zy Coota, I'm friend Coda, and we are so excited 3 00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:33.399 to have author aj Whitney with us to talk about 4 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:38.240 the second book in the Sovereign series, Elysium. I hope 5 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:40.920 that I am pronouncing that correctly because I've only read it. 6 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:49.000 Welcome Aja, Thanks for having me. Absolutely so we want 7 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:53.479 to get right into it. Can you tell us a 8 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:57.719 little bit I guess, like an elevator pitch about Sovereign 9 00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:01.479 that leads us to Elysium. And for anyone who missed 10 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:04.239 our interview, was that last year or the. 11 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:07.359 Year before that was almost exactly a year ago? 12 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:10.560 Oh wow? Okay, so you can go back in our 13 00:01:10.599 --> 00:01:14.400 feed and we talked about Sovereign, but please just give 14 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:17.159 us the high level upolutely. 15 00:01:17.560 --> 00:01:20.640 So Sovereign follows thirteen year old orphan number three hundred 16 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:24.159 and thirty two, who was raised to be sacrificed. But 17 00:01:24.200 --> 00:01:27.439 when her village stops believing in their mysterious gods, does 18 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:30.000 she finally have a real life or will the Sovereign 19 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:34.319 take their revenge? And a little bit of a spoiler, 20 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:36.760 they do in fact take their revenge. 21 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:44.599 Yes, so you know it's I loved that one of 22 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:49.120 the things with series because I love a good series, 23 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:53.599 and in particular, I was happy that you did not 24 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:56.879 like retread a lot in this one, like because I 25 00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:01.159 feel like sometimes they're like, let us go over these 26 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:04.120 big chunks from the previous books, and I felt like 27 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:08.240 you really trusted the reader. You're like, I I gets. 28 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:10.560 So boring in a series, Like I remember when the 29 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:14.840 Aragon books were coming out and I was like, oh 30 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:17.400 my god, just stop telling me what already happened in 31 00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:19.639 the last year. I just read it. 32 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:23.240 Yes, because the other part is like who picks up 33 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:25.319 at the third book and is like, this is a 34 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:26.800 good place to start. I'll just start here. 35 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:28.719 That would be silly. I think you only do that 36 00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:29.319 by mistake. 37 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:33.080 Probably, Yeah, And like there's a reason there's always a 38 00:02:33.159 --> 00:02:35.560 hold in the library on the first book that's like 39 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:38.039 eighteen weeks long, and then you can definitely do the 40 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:40.719 second book, but right, And I did. 41 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:43.280 Try to like to kind of build that in a 42 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:47.000 little bit to where you know the characters in those 43 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:50.520 first couple of chapters they do kind of rehash some 44 00:02:50.599 --> 00:02:52.520 of the things that you know, the events that led 45 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:55.520 up to where they are now. But I tried to 46 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:57.120 build it in in such a way that maybe you 47 00:02:57.159 --> 00:02:59.800 didn't notice it was happening, or it wouldn't be that 48 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:03.159 like eye rolling side moment where you just can't stand 49 00:03:03.159 --> 00:03:04.159 her read it anymore. 50 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:09.520 No, I think you did a great job because, like again, 51 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:11.840 and I don't know why, especially this winter, I've been 52 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:15.000 doing a lot of series, and I feel like, especially 53 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:18.680 when you're reading in succession, it is under like it. 54 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:22.240 It's so much clearer when that's happening. So I had 55 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:25.800 actually forgotten that the characters didn't have names for so long, 56 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:29.400 because when you pick up in Elysium, they are fully 57 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:34.919 formed people, and I know you know they're backstories. So 58 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:39.319 can without spoilers, can you give us a little bit 59 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:42.120 of like where we start in Elysium. 60 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:47.360 Yeah, So in Elysium, we have a character who wakes 61 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:53.520 up in an unknown place with technology she's not familiar with. 62 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:55.960 She doesn't know what in the world is going on 63 00:03:56.159 --> 00:04:03.879 or how she got there, and she finds that the 64 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:07.039 explanation for all of this is that she's now in 65 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:15.039 an underground city where the scientists built this civilization hundreds 66 00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:19.480 of years ago to escape a massive nuclear war that 67 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:26.720 destroyed the planet. But Unfortunately, we do still have this 68 00:04:26.839 --> 00:04:29.199 dual storyline, the same as we did in Sovereign, and 69 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:33.480 unfortunately we find that the experience of the people left 70 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:36.800 on the surface doesn't quite match up with the story 71 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:40.560 that our main characters are being told below ground. 72 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:47.000 I really felt that in this in Elysium, because I 73 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:51.399 feel like in Sovereign it's so claustrophobic and like the 74 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:56.360 communication is so closed, and Elysium everyone's getting a lot 75 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:59.680 more information, but it's like, can we trust this information? 76 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:05.399 Who is this information coming from? And I feel like 77 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:12.000 both experiences, uh feel relatable to me, Like especially now 78 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:16.240 where I feel like I have to be so careful 79 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:19.839 about where I get information and fact check and et cetera. 80 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:24.879 And then being a fish out of water situation, it's like, well, 81 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:28.279 who can they fact check with? Like they're being told 82 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:31.600 we are the experts, We're telling you what's best for you, 83 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:33.319 and like, what are you gonna do? 84 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:36.920 But and they're the adults too, the adults telling these 85 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:41.079 kids this massive history. Yeah, and is it real or 86 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:43.439 is it not real? And it's kind of for the 87 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:46.600 reader to decide. Yeah, right up until the end where 88 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:50.120 we start to get a little more information that hasn't 89 00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:51.399 been filtered mm hm. 90 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:56.160 And even the sort of the comparison of like old 91 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:59.920 world values versus modern values, and how there's like a 92 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:06.240 benefit to both and also distractions to both. How was 93 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:11.720 it building out this larger world versus like the smaller 94 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:13.160 community in Sovereign. 95 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:17.199 It was. It was pretty fun for me because I 96 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:19.519 kind of just got to run with it and I 97 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:20.399 had to decide. 98 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:20.639 So. 99 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:26.399 I mean, in Sovereign, the main story, it feels very 100 00:06:26.439 --> 00:06:30.800 like pioneer times, right, there's really no modern technology and 101 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:35.040 it is very insular, like you've mentioned. And then when 102 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:38.480 I wrote Elysium. First of all, when I wrote Sovereign, 103 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:40.360 I had no idea where I was taking this story next. 104 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:43.360 I had to come up with all the ideas and 105 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.360 figure out what I actually want to do because I 106 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:47.839 wasn't sure if it would get picked up as a 107 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:52.560 series originally. But it was really fun. I got to decide, 108 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:55.560 you know, how advanced I want this technology to be. 109 00:06:55.720 --> 00:06:58.879 Do I want it to be realistic like things that 110 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:01.319 you know we actually have here in the twenty first century, 111 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:03.279 or do I want it to be more advanced than that? 112 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:07.319 And things that I just come up with. I did 113 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:11.959 tons of research. I felt like the FBI agent who 114 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:15.000 is assigned to watch my Google history probably is getting 115 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:19.319 concerned because I'm having to google things about you know, 116 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:22.680 like C four and you know, different ways to to 117 00:07:22.759 --> 00:07:28.920 use explosives. Oh you know there's a scene where she 118 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:32.639 has to remove the screws from something from the backside, 119 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:36.319 and I, okay, like how do we how does that happen? 120 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:38.560 Like I have to make them brittle and I. 121 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:44.519 So, yeah, I thought that was really like I would 122 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:47.959 never think to do that. So like the making them 123 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:55.680 see the forest basically like snaps the screws, very ingenuitive. 124 00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:59.360 And I got to as I wrote Elysium and then 125 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:02.920 the third book is written and with the publisher already. 126 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:06.519 But as both of those books, you know this this 127 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:10.600 new society has, you know, they have like, you know, 128 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:13.519 their own military, and so I'm like researching military ranks, 129 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:16.920 so like huge documents that are like how to write 130 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:21.800 a military report and you know, like trying to trying 131 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:24.000 to keep track of all the ranks and the way 132 00:08:24.199 --> 00:08:28.920 platoons work and the weird knowledge that is now in 133 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:29.360 my head. 134 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:36.399 Yeah, I mean even the like I cannot keep military 135 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:40.120 rank straight. So I was like, is a kernel more 136 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:41.440 than a lieutenant, So I. 137 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:44.559 Know, I like I honestly had to like keep going 138 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:47.120 back and looking again to see like which one is which, 139 00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:49.600 and then like I'd give somebody a promotion, but I'd 140 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:51.960 forget that they got the promotion and I had to 141 00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:53.320 figure it out all over again. 142 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:58.559 And yeah, it's I mean, it's a lot to keep. 143 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:03.320 And then in Elysium, when we like pop back into 144 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:12.200 the above ground, uh yeah, the sort of the spiraling 145 00:09:12.679 --> 00:09:17.360 was so I guess escalation sort of the opposite of spiraling, 146 00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:18.759 but it felt like everything was like. 147 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:19.320 Kind of both. 148 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:26.240 Yeah, I I was stressed, I was worried. I was 149 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:30.120 I was worried for Maggie. I I was worried, and 150 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:35.200 you know, but the two worlds are not so different, right, 151 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:41.240 Like they're dictated by these sort of like unbendable rules 152 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:49.879 and like this sort of top down decisions and so again, 153 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:52.360 not to give anything away, but I'm curious about the 154 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:56.600 third book, like it do things get even bigger, because 155 00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:59.440 like I feel like this the villages of microcosm of 156 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:03.120 what's happened in Elysium. And then yeah. 157 00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:07.559 So there's definitely I mean there's this both societies have 158 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:11.360 this very authoritarian kind of rule to them, right where 159 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:15.840 I make the rules. I tell you what to do, 160 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:17.720 I tell you what to think, what to believe, and 161 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:20.879 how to react, and you are going to do it 162 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:21.600 because I say so. 163 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:24.960 Yeah, and ask getting questions, yeah. 164 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:27.080 I mean questions are like they and they tell her 165 00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:30.960 you can ask all the questions you want, but they 166 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:33.879 answer them in such a way that doesn't invite more, 167 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:37.440 you know, and they make her think she's totally satisfied 168 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:42.440 with all these answers, but she doesn't have the whole story, right, 169 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:46.960 And and so in the first book you really have, 170 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:49.559 you know, the above ground village, and then of course 171 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:53.919 the gray Haired Woman's story that is I almost said 172 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:55.480 what the gray Haired Woman's story is? That will ruin 173 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:56.200 it for anybody who. 174 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:56.519 Hasn't read it. 175 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:01.399 Two villages, you know, and you're figuring out how those 176 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:06.559 are connected. And then in Elysium you find you know, 177 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:11.600 the underground world in the surface world, and they don't 178 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:16.600 really meet up much in this story, right. And then 179 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:19.120 in the third book is where those worlds start to 180 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:22.559 collide and we try to bring everything together. And I 181 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:25.120 really try in that third book to bring things full circle. 182 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:28.519 And I know, once you finished Sovereign, you had a 183 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:32.960 ton of questions and Elysium mind answered some of them. 184 00:11:34.759 --> 00:11:39.039 I mean, honestly, the questions just change because I'm like, right, okay, 185 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:42.159 but wait, this is not the information I thought that 186 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:48.840 I knew. Yes, and like even like seeing sort of 187 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:55.399 like the collective action and the sort of quiet descent 188 00:11:55.639 --> 00:11:59.320 of the above ground world in this book was amazing 189 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:04.039 because I read a lot of nonfiction and I find 190 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:09.759 that there are through through threads of how like change 191 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:14.200 is done through collective action, and like I was so 192 00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:16.320 it felt like it was mostly the women in the 193 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:17.279 above ground. 194 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:21.600 Village, but like it might be a feminist. 195 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.679 The fact that they like mobilized so quickly and they 196 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:33.240 were so unwilling to just cave. I have to say, 197 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:35.919 like I really I was rooting for them so much. 198 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:37.639 I mean I would be a monster, not too right, 199 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:42.240 but like they were. It was very It was so inspiring. 200 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:45.919 Like was there a real life equivalent or like a 201 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:48.080 person you know that you had in mind when you 202 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:50.279 were modeling those characters. 203 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:58.200 I don't think so. Man, that's such a good question. 204 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:03.799 I feel like it really just came from this very 205 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:06.679 like I don't want to sit down and shut up 206 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:09.279 and just do what you tell me side of myself. 207 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:14.919 And in some ways it became a little bit of 208 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:18.240 a I oh no, sometimes I get this brain pug 209 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:21.720 and I can't think of words, which is a curse 210 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:26.879 for a writer, right, Yeah, it's it sort of mirrors 211 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:32.320 my personal journey of you know, exploring spirituality and religion. 212 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:36.080 And I was raised at a very strict religious upbringing 213 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:43.399 and very authoritarian religious upbringing, and I've kind of gone 214 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:48.480 on this journey of deconstruction as an adult and figuring 215 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:53.600 out what I really believe and what I only believed 216 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:55.840 because somebody told me to believe it. And I feel 217 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:58.639 like the whole series in a lot of ways sort 218 00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:02.840 of parallels that journey. Yeah, And so it's very much 219 00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:08.320 just sort of this journey of me coming from women 220 00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:11.799 need to sit down and shut up to I have 221 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:16.440 more power and more agency than I ever thought, and 222 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:18.600 I'm gonna find a positive way to use it. 223 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:24.159 Yeah, I mean, disenfranchisement is you know, like the number 224 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:25.919 one authoritarian. 225 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:28.559 Tool, right, so, like exactly, Yes, even. 226 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:33.480 The fact that the wives were like, you know, quietly 227 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:38.120 undermining their husbands and like finding ways to send signals 228 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:39.320 like and you know. 229 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:41.879 When your wife of fifty years goes, oh my gosh, 230 00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:45.000 he's evil. Now, yeah, something's gotta give. 231 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:53.639 Right, And you know, I'm trying not to say so hard. Yeah, 232 00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:57.200 like I wanted to talk about something that happens like 233 00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:59.759 halfway through the book, so I'm like, not gonna do that. 234 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:06.080 I will say too, I think with Elysium, you know 235 00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:12.159 that obviously Elisium nights a thing like. 236 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:17.759 Consider the Alysians. 237 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:19.919 Consider themselves more modern. But even when I'm not sure 238 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:23.320 if it's a he was considered a nurse's aid. But 239 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:27.600 like says, oh, I started doing this job at like 240 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:34.120 fourteen or something, and of like, oh, he's an elysiums 241 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:38.799 there there is this thing of like, well, everyone has 242 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:40.639 a purpose and everyone's gonna work and. 243 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:46.960 Everyone serves the mission, right yeah, and you know that 244 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:51.679 if you you don't test well or uh, you make 245 00:15:51.720 --> 00:15:54.960 a mistake, that's kind of it and you're immediately demoted 246 00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:58.559 and the stakes are so high. 247 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:05.879 So but I I guess, like I have to say, 248 00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:09.279 I was surprised when you said that you didn't have 249 00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:11.919 this planned out, because I really it felt like you did. 250 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:14.519 I was like, oh, it reminded me of when I 251 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:17.279 first watched Yellow Jackets and they said like, oh, yeah, 252 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:19.279 we have all the seasons planned out, and I was like, 253 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:22.840 that makes sense because you're like planting these things, you know. 254 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:29.360 Uh huh. So how like were there other ways you 255 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.600 thought you might take it before you sort of settled here? 256 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:36.919 There were, and there are some things that I did. Like, 257 00:16:38.360 --> 00:16:41.360 So this book takes place over about the course of 258 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:45.720 a year, and I really had thought, Okay, in the 259 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:49.240 first book, our main character is thirteen, she turns fourteen 260 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:52.240 in the second book. We just sort of quietly mentioned that, 261 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:56.039 like it's not a big deal, but now she's fourteen. Yeah, 262 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:58.559 but I had kind of thought, like some of her 263 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:02.720 character development, I originally thought she should be older for 264 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:05.079 some of these things. And of course I'm sure you're 265 00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:08.440 thinking like the person she turns into with the career 266 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:12.000 path they set her on, Yeah, seems like a lot 267 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:13.799 for a fourteen year old. Yeah, am I right? But 268 00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:18.279 it is a young adult novel, so yeah. So originally, 269 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:20.640 like I had tried to do this time jump that 270 00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:23.480 I like covered in a series of like letters and 271 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:28.480 journal entries, and I like it. It was great in 272 00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:30.680 the sense that it gave you, like some of the 273 00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:34.279 some of the deeper Elysian culture, so like some of 274 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:36.799 the holidays that they celebrate in ways that they're different 275 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:40.799 from above ground culture. But it was I didn't like 276 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:44.680 it at all. Okay, and so I, you know, just 277 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:48.240 brilliantly and just deleted all those chapters. I could have 278 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:50.720 saved them as hidden war or something that would. 279 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:50.880 Have been right. 280 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:51.960 I didn't do that. 281 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:54.559 It's gonna be like right. 282 00:17:55.119 --> 00:18:03.759 There's also so Rome character introduced in this book. I 283 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:08.960 went back and forth for weeks, maybe even months, about 284 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:11.240 where I wanted to go with his character. Was he 285 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:12.519 gonna be a good guy? Was he going to be 286 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:13.799 a bad guy? Was he going to be a double 287 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:15.880 agent or a triple agent or what's like? Who is 288 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:19.400 this person? And my poor husband had to listen and 289 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:22.599 you talk about it like NonStop, trying to figure it 290 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:27.759 out because I have to process verbally right, And I eventually, 291 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:30.839 I eventually landed on what I wanted to do, but 292 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:32.920 it took me forever, and I had written this whole 293 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:35.279 outline of how I wanted Once I figured out where 294 00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:36.839 I wanted the story to go, right, I'd written the 295 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:40.799 whole outline, and then I changed it for Rome's part 296 00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:44.759 of the story. Yeah, and then there'll be more surprises 297 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:46.599 about his character in the next book, so be read 298 00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:46.960 out of that. 299 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:51.359 I mean, yeah, because right now. 300 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:53.200 You still don't really know if yeah, a good guy 301 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:55.880 or a bad guy. But I do, like and I 302 00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:57.759 had to know before I finished this book. 303 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:00.880 Yeah, So I had settled in one way of thinking, 304 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:02.960 and then by the end of the book, I was like, well, 305 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:04.160 now I'm not sure if that's. 306 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:09.400 True, and so like, and I like that the core 307 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:17.319 set of characters, like they continuing through this journey, like 308 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:20.920 all have their own paths but are still supporting one 309 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:27.759 another so much like I friends groups, especially represented in 310 00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:30.799 books like this, like during times of strife, I think 311 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:33.559 are so great because I think that that gets like 312 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:38.279 the romance and sort of the anticipation around the romance 313 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:42.160 I love, but also just you know, the. 314 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:44.160 Checking in with the friend groups. We have some new 315 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:47.039 friends of all and a. 316 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:50.720 Teen drama which is necessary, right, Like their lives feel 317 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:53.480 normal and settled for a good portion of this book, 318 00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:55.880 and well, yeah, if that's going to be a thing, 319 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:57.559 you're gonna have some drama. 320 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:00.200 Right Oh yeah, Like if you have the time an 321 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:04.279 energy to have drama, especially around that age it's it's you. 322 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:07.240 Can't be like safe and in school and have access 323 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:10.319 to a swimming pool and never have any drama come on. 324 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:13.880 All the technology, but. 325 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:19.920 The teen drama chapters like this feels safe, this feels good. 326 00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:25.720 In Nobody's after anybody right now, and then you switch 327 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:29.359 to the village right where everything goes terribly wrong because 328 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:31.880 now they think the religion they abandoned is real after all. 329 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:40.359 So yeah, and and seeing like what they're being told 330 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:43.440 in Elysium versus the reality is chilling. 331 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:46.319 Right, But the question is is it really reality? 332 00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:50.319 Oh gosh, yeah, your head. 333 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:58.640 Sorry, yeah, because like the chapters from Maggie's point of view, 334 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:00.680 like the whole time, I'm like. 335 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:06.759 So, I'm really curious what you thought about Maggie's character 336 00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:09.720 arc in this story, because she goes from this very 337 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:14.119 powerful woman, you know, she's strong, and she's in charge, 338 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:16.759 and she's like the big bad leader, you know, she's 339 00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:21.400 the boss lady, and she becomes convinced that everything she 340 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:24.480 knew was wrong, that she is the cause of all 341 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:29.079 this terrible suffering. And of course, I mean you can 342 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:32.160 imagine in a society like that, like it was gonna 343 00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:39.119 go wrong, yes, but just the way that she handled 344 00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:41.200 all of that. What were your thoughts on that? 345 00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:46.799 I mean, I really felt for her because you know, 346 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:51.119 I can't blame her for feeling a little bit cursed 347 00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:56.119 after everything went so sideways, because her saying orphans are 348 00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:59.359 children and they are people and we should treat them 349 00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:02.480 thus does not seem like a hot take, right, so 350 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:08.200 you think so when she first conveyed that and convinced 351 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:12.839 everyone else, I was like, yes, the pendulum is correcting itself. 352 00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:15.799 And then in this book where everyone's like, look what 353 00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:17.720 you did, what a mess you made, I was like, 354 00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:20.240 that's not really fair. 355 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:24.799 And for anybody who's considering reading this book, yes it 356 00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:28.279 gets violent, so be ready for that. I did have 357 00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:32.359 some beta readers, just close friends who work with teenagers 358 00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:35.119 and and so it helps to have another set of eyes. 359 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:37.240 And one of them read it early and she was like, 360 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:42.680 these chapters are so hard to read. It it hurts 361 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:44.559 my heart. What are they doing to the children? 362 00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:52.279 Yes, and you know, even sort of like as a reader, 363 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:58.480 when I became cognizant of the techniques that they the 364 00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:02.720 Council was using to kind of push their agenda forward, 365 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.680 Like all of the behaviors felt sinister but that felt 366 00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:11.480 especially sinister because it was, you know, in the service 367 00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.079 of tearing families apart, and it was like wow, and 368 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:19.839 while simultaneously trying to convince people this was in their 369 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:23.519 best interests, like like convinced the citizens it was in 370 00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:26.759 their best address, and it was like, oh my goodness. 371 00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:28.480 They might have pushed too hard, too fast, you know. 372 00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:32.119 Yes, I think like the one line I remember in 373 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.599 particular is when they were talking about the food shortage 374 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:38.240 and it was like, but the member council, the council 375 00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:41.759 members just keep getting better. And I was like, because 376 00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:44.599 I mean, that feels like sort of a throw back 377 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:48.720 to sovereign where there's like so much suspicion around food 378 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:52.759 and food insecurity, and I was like, yeah, you can't 379 00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:55.839 be that brazen. People are not going to lay down 380 00:23:55.880 --> 00:23:56.359 for it. 381 00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:58.640 So and they shouldn't. They shouldn't have to. 382 00:23:58.839 --> 00:24:03.160 Yes, yes, absolute, So Okay, I feel like we I like, 383 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:05.279 I want to keep talking, but I also want people 384 00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:08.640 to read books and not be schoiled. So I feel 385 00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:10.880 like if we keep going, I'm gonna be like, Okay, 386 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:15.599 we want to talk about this. Yeah, Frank, did you 387 00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:18.680 have any questions? Followed up et cetera. 388 00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:24.839 No, not really. I'm just we don't like, I think 389 00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:27.319 you're the first author we've had back for their second book. 390 00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:29.960 It's very exciting for us. 391 00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:37.079 Yeah, so it just like like when I just want 392 00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:42.039 to bring in my opinion about the Maggie chapters, and 393 00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:45.119 like when I got like when you got to the 394 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:47.480 whole thing of just like oh, like they had like 395 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:49.759 they've done these terrible things and like we're starting to 396 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:53.839 recognize these orphans as children. Reminds me of my favorite book, 397 00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:56.799 Cold Mountain, about a Civil War soldier trying to walk 398 00:24:56.839 --> 00:24:59.359 home and he was fighting on the wrong side. At 399 00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:04.799 certain point, he stops with this group of traveling performers 400 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:09.200 and he's there's you know, all different races there, and 401 00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:12.440