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Speaker 11: You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking
Speaker 11: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 11: written about them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK every
Speaker 11: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 11: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 11: host journalist and author Dan Zupanski.
Speaker 10: Good Evening.
Speaker 9: Lance Hurdon was at the top of his game in
Speaker 9: nineteen ninety six, at age forty one. He was a
Speaker 9: self made millionaire, the owner of Access in Corporate, a
Speaker 9: successful information systems consulting company. As a prominent member of
Speaker 9: Atlanta's young, wealthy and powerful set, he was surrounded by
Speaker 9: black Atlanta's beautiful people. But when he failed to show
Speaker 9: up for work one day, friends and family started to worry.
Speaker 9: Their worries soon turned to horror when he was found
Speaker 9: murdered in his own home, his head smashed in in
Speaker 9: what appeared to be either an act of jealousy fueled
Speaker 9: rage or a seedy or sex crime with a laundry
Speaker 9: list of ex wives and lovers, competitors, critics, and miers
Speaker 9: in hand, detectives had to break through the city's upper
Speaker 9: crust to discover his killer. Journalist Ron Stodgil tells the
Speaker 9: riveting true story of this investigation, part investigative thriller, part
Speaker 9: sociological commentary. Redbone offers a truly intriguing story the Channel's
Speaker 9: insight into one of America's great metropolises.
Speaker 10: The book that were feature this evening.
Speaker 9: Is Redbone, The Millionaire and the Gold Digger, with my
Speaker 9: special guest, journalist and author Ron Stodgil. Welcome to the
Speaker 9: program and thank you for a Greenness interview.
Speaker 10: Ron Stoggil, Hey Dan, how are you?
Speaker 7: Thank you for having me. Dan appreciate it.
Speaker 10: Thank thank you very much.
Speaker 9: Very very interesting story and we get to see another
Speaker 9: slice of Americana with this, uh incredible story. What tell us,
Speaker 9: without giving any of this story away, because I have
Speaker 9: lots of questions for you, tell us how you came
Speaker 9: to be in a position that you would write this
Speaker 9: book Redbone.
Speaker 7: Wow, I wish I had like a real sexy you
Speaker 7: know answer for that. But I'll tell you I came
Speaker 7: about it, you know, I was. I was This was
Speaker 7: like pre nine eleven, and I was a writer at
Speaker 7: Time magazine in New York and kind of I was
Speaker 7: talking to my dad one morning actually, and he had
Speaker 7: been watching Court TV. You know, he's retired, and he
Speaker 7: was sort of distracted as we talked, and Dad, what's
Speaker 7: the deal, like, you know, like talk to me. And
Speaker 7: he was like, well, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. There's just
Speaker 7: these go watching Court TV and these hot, hot, beautiful
Speaker 7: women taking the stand one after another, and they're testifying
Speaker 7: about the murder of this guy who was this entrepreneur
Speaker 7: in Atlanta, you know. And and it was sort of
Speaker 7: like Atlanta that really rang the bell for me, mostly
Speaker 7: because you know, as an African American, having grown up
Speaker 7: in Detroit, a big major city, I'd watched so many
Speaker 7: people like there was this reverse migration of people who
Speaker 7: had left, you know, moved north to work in the
Speaker 7: factories that would be my family. My granddad, you know,
Speaker 7: worked in like the Cadillac plant, the Fisher Body plant
Speaker 7: is what it was called. And you know, and they
Speaker 7: but they were like decades later, you know, those opportunities
Speaker 7: have sort of dried up and they were moving south again,
Speaker 7: you know, and this was their their sort of progeny,
Speaker 7: their children, you know, that we were all moving and
Speaker 7: so there was this sort of u turn that had happened.
Speaker 7: And I love just narrative journalism. I love journalism about place,
Speaker 7: and I always thought Atlanta would be a great backdrop.
Speaker 7: But I just never it would be a history lesson.
Speaker 7: I just wanted to tell the story of Atlanta, you know,
Speaker 7: and and you know it's very influenced by Capodi, you know,
Speaker 7: and and and in cold Blood and what he you know,
Speaker 7: did in the in the heartland, uh, you know, with
Speaker 7: with that book and that murder. And then another one
Speaker 7: more modern, which was the John Barrent book Midnight in
Speaker 7: the Garden of Good and Evil, which was you know,
Speaker 7: another but it was sort of at Savannah played like
Speaker 7: it was its own character. And I always thought so
Speaker 7: when I looked and I saw, you know, did a
Speaker 7: little research on Lance, I thought, wow, Okay, the Stude's
Speaker 7: a real player. You know. He ran around with the
Speaker 7: mayor at the time, and he was just he had
Speaker 7: been cited by the Bush administration for his entrepreneurship and
Speaker 7: the Clinton administration, and I thought, let me just go
Speaker 7: poke around. I had just finished a fellowship you know,
Speaker 7: at Harvard, and it sort of blew my mind. Here
Speaker 7: I was thinking I went back to work after a
Speaker 7: year long. I just was sort of restless, and I
Speaker 7: got on a flight, and you know, I'd set up
Speaker 7: an interview with the prosecutor. So I went and just
Speaker 7: tried to just kind of poke around and see what
Speaker 7: I could figure out and see whether there was a
Speaker 7: real book in it. Dan, Yeah, that's pretty much how
Speaker 7: it happened. So it was like, you know, the thing
Speaker 7: that draws all folks to to to to intrigue. It was,
Speaker 7: you know, gorgeous women. That's what it started.
Speaker 10: Why not?
Speaker 7: Why not?
Speaker 9: Yeah, So before we go any further, just briefly explain
Speaker 9: what redbone refers to in terms of black people and
Speaker 9: so that whole phenomena. Tell us a little bit about
Speaker 9: the light skinned idea and what someone would be classified
Speaker 9: as redbone.
Speaker 10: What is that description of that person?
Speaker 7: I mean, you know, I mean without going into a
Speaker 7: real deep history, I mean, we know what sort of
Speaker 7: happened in the you know, in the big house or
Speaker 7: in the slave quarters during you know, slavery, and so
Speaker 7: there was you know, race mixing, and so you know
Speaker 7: what you wound up with, well, you know, these you know,
Speaker 7: very fair skinned women with European features, you know, over time,
Speaker 7: and they tended also because they learned to read earlier
Speaker 7: than you know, and they were kind of more pampered,
Speaker 7: you know than sort of the say of the house labor.
Speaker 7: You know. They they were just fair skinned, you know,
Speaker 7: and and and they had a level of status. And
Speaker 7: of course it was in the South, and so that
Speaker 7: were really you want to like really just divide a
Speaker 7: room of African Americans. You know, it's sort of it
Speaker 7: can be offensive. You know, it's sort of like to
Speaker 7: call it your redbone, but it is kind of a
Speaker 7: it's uh, it's it's it's Southern slang really for black women,
Speaker 7: fair black women with like European features, you know, mm hmm.
Speaker 10: Now, the main subject of this book, and.
Speaker 7: By the way, that's what Lance Herndon the you know,
Speaker 7: the the the the subject of the book. You know,
Speaker 7: that's was his preference. That's what he liked, that kind
Speaker 7: of woman, you know, that was that that hints the title.
Speaker 9: Let's before we talk about Lance Herndon, let's talk about
Speaker 9: Atlanta itself. And because you really do talk about you know,
Speaker 9: a really forward thinking mayor, a very progressive government in
Speaker 9: Atlanta that made it available that contracts were given to
Speaker 9: black people. So tell us a little bit about the
Speaker 9: fascinating history that you chronicle in this book about Atlanta
Speaker 9: and its rise to a place where they have five
Speaker 9: colleges and it's you know, really like you've mentioned, a
Speaker 9: mecca for black professionals and people black people to aspire to,
Speaker 9: to a place where they could really achieve everything they
Speaker 9: really wanted to.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and you know, I'm working right now actually on
Speaker 7: a book on historically black colleges and narrative. I mean,
Speaker 7: these colleges were born right after you know, slavery to
Speaker 7: educate free slaves, and they were birthed by you know,
Speaker 7: white missionaries and and uh and abolitionists and uh. You know,
Speaker 7: Atlanta became you know, the kind of epicenter for you know,
Speaker 7: sort of black higher education. And so today, you know,
Speaker 7: there there's what Spelman and Clark there was, there's a
Speaker 7: struggling Morris Brown. There's more House College in which you
Speaker 7: know President Obama just a couple of years ago gave
Speaker 7: the commencement. That's an all boys boys liberal arts school
Speaker 7: where you know, doctor Martin Luther King is among the graduates.
Speaker 7: You know, you know, lots of graduates, whether it be
Speaker 7: a Spike Lee or Sam Jackson or Martin Luther King,
Speaker 7: you know, or Lewis Sullivan, the former Human Services Cabinet head,
Speaker 7: and so it you know, because of that, you've got
Speaker 7: generations of just really educated black people, more than most
Speaker 7: cities in the country, arguably more than any you know.
Speaker 7: And so you know, the black elite in America have
Speaker 7: a tie particularly you know, a couple of generations ago,
Speaker 7: like to to Atlanta, and so you've got kind of
Speaker 7: an old guard, you know, a blue blood class of
Speaker 7: doctors and lawyers, you know, like I mean when doctor
Speaker 7: King graduated morehouse you know, in the fifties, I think
Speaker 7: he was third generation on his mother's side, you know,
Speaker 7: of more house men. And so this is how far back,
Speaker 7: you know, that kind of pedigree goes. And so then
Speaker 7: you so that is the kind of old guard. It
Speaker 7: was the first, you know, one of the first cities
Speaker 7: you know to elect the black mayor, you know, and
Speaker 7: that was Maynor Jackson in the late seventies, you know,
Speaker 7: and and and Maynor Jackson used you know, a lot
Speaker 7: of kind of uh set aside programs, you know, as
Speaker 7: Atlanta was growing up and just sort of funneled business
Speaker 7: towards black entrepreneurs and so, you know, to make sure
Speaker 7: that they were not left out of the city's growth.
Speaker 7: And so hence you got this class of their black millionaires.
Speaker 7: He created black you know, a class of black wealth
Speaker 7: that was unparalleled, you know, and it was attractive. You know,
Speaker 7: when people heard that, it was kind of like a
Speaker 7: clarion call to folks in other parts of the country
Speaker 7: to come there, right and try to break through themselves.
Speaker 9: Now the subject, as we mentioned Lance Herndon, he's forty
Speaker 9: one at the time of his demise.
Speaker 10: So we'll go back.
Speaker 9: He was born in nineteen fifty five, and he spent
Speaker 9: some time in Farmville, Virginia, because his family is as
Speaker 9: you right, he kind of had a family that really
Speaker 9: didn't neglected him quite a bit, and his parents split
Speaker 9: when he was an adolescent, and he really looked up
Speaker 9: to and admired his grandparents, but especially his grandfather, John
Speaker 9: Harrison Herndon and his grandmother Elver And so tell us
Speaker 9: how now he a little bit about his early life
Speaker 9: and before we talk about his twenties and when to
Speaker 9: become successful in his marriages. So tell us a little
Speaker 9: bit about his adolescents life, as you do in Redbone.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm trying to. I mean, you are testing my
Speaker 7: memory here. The book was published in seven and I'm
Speaker 7: now like a couple of books. But it's always fun
Speaker 7: to try to like reconnect to Lance and you know,
Speaker 7: and I'm always fascinated by him. But you know, the
Speaker 7: the he was in the end a real real like
Speaker 7: his work ethic was just really impressive, you know, and
Speaker 7: we'll get into that later in terms of how structured
Speaker 7: he was and how disciplined he was, and how he
Speaker 7: knew how to make and stretch a dollar. But you know, yeah,
Speaker 7: his mom, if I recall, you know, work two or
Speaker 7: three jobs, you know, and this is in New York
Speaker 7: he was born. His dad was sort of a he
Speaker 7: did like I think, some delivery stuff, but they were gone,
Speaker 7: you know, most of the time, and they raised him
Speaker 7: almost by like notes, you know, just leave a note
Speaker 7: on the fridge, and this is what you're eating, and
Speaker 7: and and so he wound up in Farmville, Virginia with
Speaker 7: his granddad, who was a farmer, and you know, really
Speaker 7: that is where that work ethic started. Right, He had
Speaker 7: a very you know, he was a good student, always
Speaker 7: a really kind of technical mind, which led into you know,
Speaker 7: the business that he wound up running, which we'll get into.
Speaker 7: But yeah, Lance loved his granddad, right, I mean, that
Speaker 7: was his role model, and that's kind of where he
Speaker 7: got his his I guess you could say his ambition
Speaker 7: right there in Farmville, Virginia.
Speaker 9: Now let's skip a little bit ahead. You say he
Speaker 9: is a character. Now one question after I asked this
Speaker 9: question here in terms of he has a couple failed
Speaker 9: marriages in his twenties, and then in the nineties he
Speaker 9: meets his third wife while he's vacationing in Brazil and
Speaker 9: she's staring at a statue of Jesus, and so it
Speaker 9: seems like it's of course divine intervention here and he
Speaker 9: meets Janine Price. But before we go any further, describe
Speaker 9: Lance Herndon for us, he's about five foot ten, but
Speaker 9: just his facial features and what he looks like, you.
Speaker 7: Know, I mean, Lance was like, maybe not in like
Speaker 7: a classic sense, you know, like a real you know,
Speaker 7: like a handsome guy, but he had like plenty plenty
Speaker 7: of style. You know, he would you know, had a
Speaker 7: regular appointment with the Have Dasher in Atlanta, and he
Speaker 7: always had tailored you know, tailored clothes and he was
Speaker 7: very sort of fastidious in his his appearance. Right. He
Speaker 7: was you know, kind of small in stature, so maybe
Speaker 7: there was a bit of a Napoleon complex there. You know,
Speaker 7: it's a short cropped hair and you know, not the
Speaker 7: best kind of a ruddy skin, you know. But he
Speaker 7: was pulled together man, and just pulled together and had
Speaker 7: a lot of as a as the kids call it now,
Speaker 7: he had a lot of swag.
Speaker 9: Yeah, what business does He eventually become a successful entrepreneur.
Speaker 7: I mean, you know computer like, you know, sort of
Speaker 7: data processing and computer so you know, he would get
Speaker 7: the contract like Atlanta, you know, the major companies, whether
Speaker 7: it was Nation's Bank or or Coke Cocola. You know,
Speaker 7: they would farm out some of their data processing and
Speaker 7: so he would wind up getting pieces of that business
Speaker 7: and he grew it. He grew it really large for
Speaker 7: an entrepreneur, right.
Speaker 9: And part of his success was that he was this
Speaker 9: super organized, super detailed person that would remember people's birthdays,
Speaker 9: send them presents, and do those little things to keep
Speaker 9: networks very very strong. So he was very personable in
Speaker 9: that very very generous, but it was all business. But
Speaker 9: he was very very serious about that type of business
Speaker 9: and that type of networking.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, he was the kind of guy if
Speaker 7: he found out, you know, that your son was a
Speaker 7: Braves fan, you know, he might just sort of like
Speaker 7: get a Brave hat and like before you know, and
Speaker 7: he would ask what the kid's birthday was, and he
Speaker 7: would jot it down and on that day, he'd you know,
Speaker 7: get to the you know, the hat would would show
Speaker 7: up at your office or your home or whatever. He
Speaker 7: was always really really just super considerate and he took
Speaker 7: you know, he's really tedious with with his notes about
Speaker 7: you and it was kind of it was opportunistic and shrewd,
Speaker 7: but it was also pretty flattering two people who were
Speaker 7: in his in his network. He never missed a birthday,
Speaker 7: you know. I mean, his his calendar was like full
Speaker 7: from you know when he was, when he when when
Speaker 7: you know, when he died, it was like three years out.
Speaker 7: That's how what a planner he was. It was also
Speaker 7: like would get up and I don't know whether you
Speaker 7: know he would he would sort of he was an
Speaker 7: early riser. You know, he kept his business in his home,
Speaker 7: in his basement. So there was this you know sort
Speaker 7: of top two three floors, top two floors, and then
Speaker 7: beneath that though, were the offices because he was just
Speaker 7: like okay, you know, it was an office suite, so
Speaker 7: that his employees would enter and through the through the
Speaker 7: you know, go down into the that that that bottom level.
Speaker 7: But you know, he would wake up at three am, right,
Speaker 7: and then he would go downstairs and he would record
Speaker 7: directions in like four three or four tape recorders, like
Speaker 7: you know, Zanya, I need you to call Nations Bank
Speaker 7: and da da da da, and Holly, I need you
Speaker 7: to make reservations for such and so. And he would
Speaker 7: leave there so that way he didn't have to talk
Speaker 7: to him during the day. He didn't really thought talking
Speaker 7: to his employees was sort of inefficient, and so that's
Speaker 7: what he would do. I mean, that's the kind of
Speaker 7: he had three He was a heavy sleeper, so he
Speaker 7: had like three alarm clocks the room. So one would
Speaker 7: go off and then he might you know, snooze a little,
Speaker 7: but the other one would go off, and they were
Speaker 7: set like at like fifteen I think fifteen twenty minute intervals.
Speaker 7: I mean, he was just kind of like, you know,
Speaker 7: strange guy.
Speaker 9: Now, he also what was odd as well as that
Speaker 9: he was obsessive about Again, we talked about hygiene, but
Speaker 9: he would take three or four hours a day. But
Speaker 9: he would also what he said, he would record instructions
Speaker 9: to his employees and have them on their desks, you know,
Speaker 9: you know, every single day. It was really reminiscent of
Speaker 9: the kind of notes that he got and the kind
Speaker 9: of parenting he got, wasn't it.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Yeah, I guess you'd yeah, that was it. I mean,
Speaker 7: he was sort of raised on sticky, sticky notes, and
Speaker 7: so I guess he took that. Yeah. It worked, It worked,
Speaker 7: you know, and they expected that from him, you know,
Speaker 7: they expected to show up and have those directions recorded
Speaker 7: for them that.
Speaker 9: Now, now let's talk about his lifestyle and that including
Speaker 9: his love of women and his relationships with women and
Speaker 9: how he had those relationships and how they were characterized.
Speaker 9: So he was married. We'll talk about when he was
Speaker 9: married to Janine Price.
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Speaker 9: A beautiful woman, very very attractive woman. How did he
Speaker 9: really look he's a very serious businessman. How did he
Speaker 9: look at relationships? And how did he look at marriage?
Speaker 7: I mean to Lance, everything I think was you know
Speaker 7: a stage, you know, like really for show. And Janine
Speaker 7: was a trophy. You know. She is from Kansas City,
Speaker 7: from a really sort of what would you say, you know,
Speaker 7: good solid middle class family. She had moved to New
Speaker 7: York to be you know, to to to dance, and
Speaker 7: then she wound up as a corporate like for corporate
Speaker 7: flight attendant, so you know, private planes for some of
Speaker 7: the large large corporations based out of New York. And
Speaker 7: and so when she happened to be in Rio, he
Speaker 7: was visiting, and that's where they met, you know, and
Speaker 7: so I think that to him, she was just kind
Speaker 7: of the perfect, perfect, the perfect woman. But he was
Speaker 7: a serial, you know, he was insatiable. He had plenty, plenty,
Speaker 7: plenty of women. I think he did, in fact love
Speaker 7: Janine and what she represented, but it never stopped him
Speaker 7: from carousing. You know. He was a known playboy around town.
Speaker 7: He was sort of like he threw the best parties.
Speaker 7: He didn't mind spending money. You know, he kept women
Speaker 7: on his always, you know, on the payroll and gifted
Speaker 7: them and that's what they you know, that that was
Speaker 7: his reputation.
Speaker 9: Now you talk about having his office and his workers
Speaker 9: at this home. But let's describe this home because we're
Speaker 9: you talk about in some really exclusive areas in Atlanta
Speaker 9: where you have you know, the smallest home is nine
Speaker 9: thousand square feet plus. So just tell us about this
Speaker 9: lavish home slash business.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm kind of trying to remember to press. It's
Speaker 7: in Roswell, which is, you know, a suburb of Atlanta,
Speaker 7: and it's off of the Chattahoochie River, right, it sort
Speaker 7: of runs alongside of it, and it's very very it's
Speaker 7: a gated community and I can't remember like the square
Speaker 7: footage of it, but it was you know, for that
Speaker 7: for for that area, relatively palatial, you know, and and
Speaker 7: so you know, and it was it was adjoining it
Speaker 7: sort of set, you know, right inside of a really
Speaker 7: kind of gorgeous wooded, wooded lot. And and so when
Speaker 7: you walk, you know, if it was it was three
Speaker 7: floors and it was just you know, but it was
Speaker 7: not you know, he was a bachelor, so it didn't
Speaker 7: have a real kind of homie feel. It had almost
Speaker 7: hysterile feel. He had a housekeeper that would come in
Speaker 7: and clean it, you know, but it was just you know,
Speaker 7: his his layer, so to speak, you know.
Speaker 9: And it was interesting too for all those people that
Speaker 9: love cars. This guy had the kinds of cars that
Speaker 9: people men especially would be envious, but women are very
Speaker 9: very interested in as well.
Speaker 10: So tell us the kind of cars other than Mercedes.
Speaker 4: That he had.
Speaker 7: I mean, I think like at times, I mean he
Speaker 7: always kept like a Porsche. I think he had like
Speaker 7: a Lotus, you know, at one point, like in Alpha Romet,
Speaker 7: you know, real just hot cool. Because it was a
Speaker 7: nightclub guy. So I think during the day he would
Speaker 7: drive maybe his Mercedes or his Volvo, but then when
Speaker 7: he would hit the clubs. He would take out the
Speaker 7: Lotus or something like that. And he was known always
Speaker 7: to just be in cool cars and always you know,
Speaker 7: sort of treating everyone. I mean, but like I said,
Speaker 7: like a kind of a Gatsbiesque place, the stature in
Speaker 7: this city, you know, the guy that they could depend on,
Speaker 7: you know, the lonely guy who was surrounded by people
Speaker 7: and partiers.
Speaker 9: Now, before we get into some of the employees that
Speaker 9: he also had sometimes relationships with, let's let's talk about
Speaker 9: how successful he was in business, and and how long
Speaker 9: before that business sort of seemed to change, and yet
Speaker 9: his his lifestyle didn't, and the course spending didn't.
Speaker 7: Well, yeah, I can't, I can't. What I can say
Speaker 7: more broadly is that, you know, a lot of his
Speaker 7: success was rooted in, you know, a relationship with with
Speaker 7: Bill Campbell, the mayor, and a lot of corporate folk.
Speaker 7: So he had government contracts and he had some corporate contracts,
Speaker 7: you know. But in order to really really I mean,
Speaker 7: Atlanta was being flooded with new talent all the time,
Speaker 7: just new people who wanted to kind of come in
Speaker 7: and and and and and so he had competitors, you know.
Speaker 7: And I don't know whether or not. He was really
Speaker 7: keeping up. I mean, when you deal with a technological industry,
Speaker 7: you got to stay fresh, you know, And he kind
Speaker 7: of started to take a eye off the ball because
Speaker 7: you you know, Atlanta and today it's really that it
Speaker 7: started to become kind of an entertainment hub. You know,
Speaker 7: first R and B music, it was like Jimmy jam
Speaker 7: and Terry Lewis, those guys were out there and they
Speaker 7: produced like you know, Janet Jackson and you know, a
Speaker 7: bunch of starts. Then there were these other producers and
Speaker 7: it became kind of it's today it's very kind of
Speaker 7: a hip hop hub. And also television. You know, I
Speaker 7: think black entertainment television b ET has its own like
Speaker 7: I think a studio Tyler Perry the director is is there.
Speaker 7: And so he kind of that was where that like
Speaker 7: the action was, and he started sort of wanting to
Speaker 7: manage acts and things like that to sort of continue
Speaker 7: to be relevant in the kind of way that the
Speaker 7: with the new guard, the new guard up and comers,
Speaker 7: the new sort of strivers and yeah, so I think
Speaker 7: you know, he was spending more money in the end
Speaker 7: than he was making.
Speaker 9: The other thing you talk about is and it really
Speaker 9: talks about his character, especially when it seems to be
Speaker 9: you know, he's losing his place, you know, so he's
Speaker 9: a little bit desperate and he wants to get into
Speaker 9: this younger but also he's got his interest in music,
Speaker 9: so he sort of latches on gets an opportunity with
Speaker 9: a guy that says, listen, I need seven thousand bucks.
Speaker 9: I got a little bit of a cash flow problem.
Speaker 9: And not knowing the kind of character that Lance is,
Speaker 9: Lance hones in on this, using it as his opportunity
Speaker 9: to get in on management. And you talk about some
Speaker 9: of the embarrassing things that go on. So tell us
Speaker 9: a little bit just in general about how he kind
Speaker 9: of over extends himself.
Speaker 10: We'll say.
Speaker 7: You may be referring to you know, there was one
Speaker 7: group called Arrested Development back in the day, and I
Speaker 7: think they had won a Grammy and one of they produced,
Speaker 7: you know, one female star kind of rolled out of that,
Speaker 7: Dion Farris, and so you know Lance, you know, he
Speaker 7: jumped into the mix and wanted to kind of manage
Speaker 7: her and without any real real I mean, he was
Speaker 7: a fish out of water, but you couldn't tell him
Speaker 7: that because he was cocky. Any new business and you know,
Speaker 7: he would show up at the studio and kind of
Speaker 7: try to guide her, and you know, and he just
Speaker 7: thought that she was a little too you know, didn't
Speaker 7: have it right. I think at one point he had
Speaker 7: gone into the studio and she had like a snake
Speaker 7: around her neck, and you know, and he was just
Speaker 7: like what the hell is this, Like we are we
Speaker 7: doing music. He's you know, accused her of wasting his
Speaker 7: money and this, that and the other, and they were
Speaker 7: just like, you know, get this guy out of here.
Speaker 7: I think it was a wreck, you know. But meanwhile
Speaker 7: he was also doing other cool things, like he had
Speaker 7: a this connect with the I think it was with
Speaker 7: the Navy, and so he put together once a which
Speaker 7: which you know is kind of made his you know,
Speaker 7: everybody remembers this where you know, he had like a
Speaker 7: luncheon and took some of his favorite clients out on
Speaker 7: like a submarine, you know, because he had to connect
Speaker 7: somebody owed him a favor, so he got him like
Speaker 7: a submarine ride, you know, off the coast of I
Speaker 7: think Florida. So that's the kind of stuff he would do,
Speaker 7: which was like, I mean, someone takes you on a submarine,
Speaker 7: like you might love him forever. That's the kind of
Speaker 7: stuff he did.
Speaker 9: Now, let's talk about some of the people that vowed
Speaker 9: to love him forever and included some of those again
Speaker 9: lovers and employees slash employees and mistresses. So and we've
Speaker 9: got to sort this all out for our audience, definitely.
Speaker 9: So let's talk about first Zanya Adams and what was
Speaker 9: her role with the company and what was her relationship
Speaker 9: with him. Did she have a personal intimate relationship with him?
Speaker 7: Yeah, Well, Zanya was like Zanya was his solid right
Speaker 7: hand you know. Mary, she was actually married to a
Speaker 7: guy who was ahead of a singing group, Silk you know,
Speaker 7: I think it was Silk Yep, which was a big, big,
Speaker 7: you know at the time, kind of a hot group.
Speaker 7: But she was sort of the office manager and like
Speaker 7: always had Zanya's back. It was like she was so
Speaker 7: not interested in him, you know, romantic, you know, she
Speaker 7: sort of kept him at at bay in that way.
Speaker 7: But she was just valuable because she was solid and
Speaker 7: ran like a tight ship. Donya Adams. Yeah, now another.
Speaker 9: So she was so she was the solid person that
Speaker 9: really wasn't tangled up on him with relationship wise, Now,
Speaker 9: who is Lacey Banks and what did she do for
Speaker 9: him and what was she to him personally?
Speaker 7: I mean, that was like a complicated relationship. Lacey was
Speaker 7: from a small town in North Carolina, had moved to Atlanta,
Speaker 7: and I think maybe had done some temp work under
Speaker 7: him at one point, but really was a sweet girl
Speaker 7: who was also really you know, ambitious and attractive. Right,
Speaker 7: so he kind of like mentored her to some degree,
Speaker 7: but also started to sleep with her, right, And then
Speaker 7: she almost just became like a off and on companion.
Speaker 7: So she would toggle between being a lover and a worker.
Speaker 7: And then sometimes you know, and it was almost like
Speaker 7: an understanding, you know that you know that she would
Speaker 7: do sexual favors for him or maybe even to be
Speaker 7: you know, I mean now and then maybe even an
Speaker 7: important client that he might ask her to go out with.
Speaker 9: Yeah, so that's the other part of it too. He
Speaker 9: did just alluded to it a little bit, but let's
Speaker 9: get to it. He she would participate in threesomes with
Speaker 9: other guys and with other women, and yeah, it was
Speaker 9: just part of the part of the lifestyle.
Speaker 7: It was part of the deal. Yeah, you know what
Speaker 7: I mean. He would slip money into her bank account,
Speaker 7: and so she was just available to him. But they
Speaker 7: also like he talked to her, and she talked to him,
Speaker 7: and you know, she was a little younger than him,
Speaker 7: and and you know, I spent a lot of time
Speaker 7: out there. She now is like a soccer mom, you know,
Speaker 7: out in like Denver. You know, her life has changed.
Speaker 7: But at the time, you know, she really had a
Speaker 7: lot of love for him. She said that she was
Speaker 7: you know, he was not even really it was easy
Speaker 7: work for because he wasn't really even a great lover.
Speaker 7: He just liked sex, but he wasn't great at it,
Speaker 7: you know, but she'd liked him. She liked him.
Speaker 9: Now, tell us a little bit about Kathy Collins and
Speaker 9: what she meant to him.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, like Kathy was you know, high fashion,
Speaker 7: high maintenance, you know, gorgeous, you know, eye candy who
Speaker 7: you know, whenever he was out at something important, you know,
Speaker 7: you'd see him with Kathy because she, you know, was
Speaker 7: well spoken and ambitious and the right person to have
Speaker 7: on his arm and always kind of seeing the opportunity
Speaker 7: and seizing it and bringing it to him. And so
Speaker 7: I think they kind of shared that that, you know,
Speaker 7: that kind of ambition, and she understood that and She
Speaker 7: liked that about him, that he was sort of a
Speaker 7: boss kingpin.
Speaker 10: Now tell us.
Speaker 7: She had clothes hanging in his closet.
Speaker 10: That was you know, yeah, that's pretty serious.
Speaker 9: Now, tell us a little bit about Holly and any
Speaker 9: other employee that was important to this story as you
Speaker 9: read it.
Speaker 7: Well, you know, Holly was the you know, an employee,
Speaker 7: and I think she was just a good old solid worker.
Speaker 7: She was the only white person at the company.
Speaker 10: She was.
Speaker 7: You know what I do remember, I mean, you know,
Speaker 7: had one thing that stood out was, you know, she
Speaker 7: had gorgeous, gorgeous handwriting, like she did calligraphy. So when
Speaker 7: it was time to really be impressive and send like
Speaker 7: that note to someone, you know, like the Christmas cards
Speaker 7: and stuff like that thank you letters, you know, he
Speaker 7: could turn the Holly and she would just put some
Speaker 7: something gorgeous together to send out.
Speaker 10: You know. Yeah, now you talked about, uh.
Speaker 7: That was it. Those were the employees. It was sort
Speaker 7: of Holly r typically unless it was like a big
Speaker 7: kind of and they're the ones that came into the
Speaker 7: home every day, you know, Zanya.
Speaker 9: Now you talk about you talk about Lacey's boyfriend, this
Speaker 9: Jimmy sweet Turner. So again you talked about the complication
Speaker 9: of this. You know, Lacey was in a relationship with him,
Speaker 9: it was more intimate, more frequent at different times over
Speaker 9: those twelve year period.
Speaker 10: Times.
Speaker 9: So she has this Jimmy sweet Turner, which becomes important
Speaker 9: in this story. So this guy seems to be constantly
Speaker 9: in debt but and very important to this. So tell
Speaker 9: us a little bit about sweet Turner and what's how's
Speaker 9: his relationship with Lacey, and then tell us about how
Speaker 9: they ended up being a loan from Lance Herndon to Turner.
Speaker 7: I mean, you meant, yeah, again, you're you're challenging me here, Dan,
Speaker 7: but so, you know, I mean, so there's Lance who
Speaker 7: was out of her league, but she loved to hang with, right,
Speaker 7: And then she had regular guys that, you know, were
Speaker 7: her contemporaries that she would go out with and her
Speaker 7: boy and they were not Lance, you know, they were
Speaker 7: typically wannabes. And one of the one guy was this
Speaker 7: you know, Jimmy, and that was her her boyfriend. And
Speaker 7: at one point Lance loaned him money because of course
Speaker 7: he was doing you know, he was doing you know,
Speaker 7: her a favor, right, and so they didn't get paid back,
Speaker 7: so he went and just took the guy's car and
Speaker 7: had the car. I think that's the That was that
Speaker 7: that was that was it. Yeah, he did that all
Speaker 7: the time to people. That's what he would do, you know,
Speaker 7: that was you know, that was sort of one of
Speaker 7: his business moves, to be honest, Like when he saw
Speaker 7: something you want on it, he would sort of make
Speaker 7: a loan, knowing that you couldn't sort of pay it back,
Speaker 7: you know, and that is how he would insert himself
Speaker 7: into your life.
Speaker 10: Now we do get.
Speaker 7: A bad He doesn't sound like a really nice guy, doesn't.
Speaker 7: But you know, it wasn't really viewed as that, like,
Speaker 7: you know, I mean, he was shrewd, but you know,
Speaker 7: in doing the reporting on that, you know, he came
Speaker 7: across as fairly non threatening. Like I said, he was
Speaker 7: a pretty small, small guy. You know, nobody was really
Speaker 7: afraid of him, but he was. He was pretty shrewd.
Speaker 9: Now he has this birthday party, and in true lavish style,
Speaker 9: again we're going to jump ahead a little bit to
Speaker 9: realize that his business is not doing so well. His
Speaker 9: like I mentioned, his lifestyle, he up spending the same
Speaker 9: amount of money he had people like Dion Boo. Maybe
Speaker 9: you can talk about her. She had only come into
Speaker 9: the fold about three months earlier. But what was her attraction?
Speaker 9: What did he see in her? Didn't he have enough
Speaker 9: women and enough complication in his life?
Speaker 10: What brought her to right?
Speaker 7: Well? You know, yeah, he you know, he had, like
Speaker 7: I said, connects all over town. And so he was
Speaker 7: having this birthday bash. H he was turning forty and
Speaker 7: he was having it at the top of the you
Speaker 7: know Hilton Hilton, I believe, right, you know, and and
Speaker 7: which overlooked like, you know, Stone Mountain and it was
Speaker 7: just a beautiful view. And so, you know, he invited
Speaker 7: the cities movers and shakers to celebrate with him. And
Speaker 7: so he invited one of the sort of top managers
Speaker 7: at Marta, which is their public transportation company and you know,
Speaker 7: runs this sort of subway system and you know, buses
Speaker 7: and stuff like that. He invited an executive of Marta,
Speaker 7: but that executive's assistant saw that invite and thought like wow, okay,
Speaker 7: and got herself invited because you know, Lance's reputation preceded him.
Speaker 7: And so yeah, she shows up at his fortieth Dion ball. Yeah, uninvited,
Speaker 7: but he wasn't mad at her because she was you
Speaker 7: know when he met her, she fit in. She was
Speaker 7: fair skinned and in his eyes, you know, a looker.
Speaker 9: The other thing was is that the other to to
Speaker 9: just talk about this birthday party. It invited a couple
Speaker 9: hundred people, so was a big affair, and Lacey Banks
Speaker 9: was there but knew her place and so she stood
Speaker 9: stood by the side.
Speaker 7: That's right. I mean he could depend on her. But
Speaker 7: you know what's funny though, is like they had actually
Speaker 7: he had a room in the I learned this in
Speaker 7: the reporting. He had a room in the Hilton, you know,
Speaker 7: and so prior to the party, you know, they had
Speaker 7: already kind of had their little thing.
Speaker 10: Mm hmm. Yeah. Very interesting.
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Speaker 10: Who was his Who was he with that night?
Speaker 7: Officially Kathy his main lady.
Speaker 10: Yes, And what was the birthday party?
Speaker 7: Like?
Speaker 9: Was there any problems? Was there any interruptions, any incidents?
Speaker 7: No, It was a big, big festive thing, you know,
Speaker 7: with chocolates and all sorts of you know, golf, shrimp
Speaker 7: and appetizers and great music. You know that guy the
Speaker 7: R and B stars on his husband came and sang
Speaker 7: Happy Birthday, and you know, and and he loved, loved
Speaker 7: to dance, and so that was a great party. It
Speaker 7: was a great party. And that's where he met Dion
Speaker 7: and danced with her, and that's where their courtship started.
Speaker 10: Now, when did this party end?
Speaker 9: And what did did Kathy notice this, you know, sudden
Speaker 9: relationship or noticed the meeting between the two.
Speaker 7: I'm not sure she noticed it at that party, but certainly,
Speaker 7: you know, she could start to feel the distance post
Speaker 7: party because he started dating dating Dion, you know, on
Speaker 7: the side, he sort of had two women going. He
Speaker 7: really was smitten with Dion, you know, because she was
Speaker 7: from Jamaica, she had the accent and she was bright,
Speaker 7: and she was fashionable, and she was highly sexualized, and
Speaker 7: so they, yeah, they started an affair.
Speaker 9: And what was he providing for her? You talk about
Speaker 9: a Mercedes was given to her in a credit card
Speaker 9: in case she needed something.
Speaker 7: So yeah, it was a serious three four months in. Yeah,
Speaker 7: that's what he did, like he you know, he was
Speaker 7: giving her money, which was sort of like his mother
Speaker 7: Operande really and then he you know, but the big
Speaker 7: one was she was having some car issues. She was
Speaker 7: a student at uh Georgia, I want to say Georgia State,
Speaker 7: it's right in in in in Atlanta. And he, yeah,
Speaker 7: he leased the Mercedes in her name, in his name
Speaker 7: and let her you know, tool around and that was
Speaker 7: her her vehicle. Little did he know, you know, and
Speaker 7: I don't want to jump too far, but little did
Speaker 7: he know was that she was you know married, and.
Speaker 10: She was married. She had children as well, She had.
Speaker 7: A daughter, right. So she was a you know, a
Speaker 7: naturalized immigrant from Jamaica and and her husband was back
Speaker 7: home with their daughter. She had met him in you know, Miami,
Speaker 7: and so they were having a but he was a
Speaker 7: you know, a pilot, not like a you know, for
Speaker 7: a very small airline like Jamaica Air or something, and
Speaker 7: you know, he would move back and forth, come back
Speaker 7: and forth and see her. But Jim generally she was
Speaker 7: there alone, right, he was raising the daughter. So she
Speaker 7: kind of had set up this life in Atlanta and
Speaker 7: was dating this you know Baller.
Speaker 9: And what was Kathy's How long did it take for
Speaker 9: Kathy to sort of get a whiff of what was
Speaker 9: going on?
Speaker 7: I think pretty pretty early on. I mean there was
Speaker 7: one incident in which he had I mean, Dion proved
Speaker 7: to have quite the temper, you know, and I think
Speaker 7: that this is when he said, like, Okay, I'm in
Speaker 7: hot water here. You know. He was with Kathy one
Speaker 7: night and Dion, uh, he was in his home and Kathy,
Speaker 7: like you know, they were in bed. Kathy just had
Speaker 7: like a robe on, and like Dion came by unannounced,
Speaker 7: and she used to go over there and study sometimes
Speaker 7: and just sit and hang around. And like she knocked
Speaker 7: on the door and like Lance didn't answer the door,
Speaker 7: and she knocked and knocked and knocked, and she knew
Speaker 7: he was in there, and then she just started to
Speaker 7: really go off and like act pretty crazy out there,
Speaker 7: and so he called the cops like and played it
Speaker 7: off like there's someone I don't know outside, which was ridiculous,
Speaker 7: but that was what he did in order to protect
Speaker 7: himself with Kathy, like I don't even know, there's a
Speaker 7: crazy woman outside, and so you know, and then when
Speaker 7: the police showed, she was combative and they ended up
Speaker 7: picking her up, you know, and he let him pick
Speaker 7: her up. He never really came outside, which was really cowardly,
Speaker 7: but that's what he did. And the next day he
Speaker 7: sort of like called and figured out some way to
Speaker 7: smooth it over. But he realized they're like, whoa, this
Speaker 7: woman's got a temper.
Speaker 9: So what was his next move after that? Once he
Speaker 9: realized that he had a problem, a big problem.
Speaker 7: I think he started to try a little bit to
Speaker 7: distance himself, but you know, they were connected sexually, so
Speaker 7: he was sort of like torn and he never really
Speaker 7: broke it off, even though you know, like his his
Speaker 7: his the people really at his back, like Zanya could
Speaker 7: say like, Okay, this is bad. This is bad. Like
Speaker 7: she's calling the office, she acts like she you know,
Speaker 7: runs this place. She could tell this is not.
Speaker 10: Gonna be good, and so what is.
Speaker 7: Uh, it was late, it was too late, okay, So talk.
Speaker 9: About the day in question, talk about how anybody discovers
Speaker 9: talk about the day of the incident and previous What
Speaker 9: does Lance do and who does he meet? He talks
Speaker 9: to Lacey Banks that day. But what according to reports,
Speaker 9: what what seems to be what occurred with revolving involving Lacey.
Speaker 7: Well, so if you recall, like, you know, that year,
Speaker 7: which would have been like ninety six, Yes, that was
Speaker 7: you know, the world that was Atlanta was the stage
Speaker 7: for the Olympics, and so you know, the city had
Speaker 7: sort of transformed itself to be ready for the Olympics,
Speaker 7: and it hosted the it hosted the games successfully. And
Speaker 7: you know, on Sunday, I think, which is sort of customary,
Speaker 7: they do kind of a special Olympics thing and it's
Speaker 7: sort of winding down. But on that Monday morning and
Speaker 7: Lance really partied hard during the Olympics. I mean obviously
Speaker 7: that would the city was just you know, you know,
Speaker 7: just a playground, right, big social you know hub, and
Speaker 7: so Lance they that morning, as I mentioned, he would
Speaker 7: always leave that tape out there. He'd been leaving it
Speaker 7: for his employees every for years. On this day, they
Speaker 7: go downstairs, they to their station, their workstation, and there
Speaker 7: is no tape, and they're like, Okay, this is odd.
Speaker 7: This is really odd, you know, And the next employee
Speaker 7: comes in and they talk about how odd it is.
Speaker 7: So it's like Zanya and then Holly and then the mother.
Speaker 7: They call because they don't have entree to the rest
Speaker 7: of the house, but they panic. The mom actually has
Speaker 7: by then had moved to Atlanta, lives not far could
Speaker 7: come over, you know, and check on her son. So
Speaker 7: they call miss Herndon and say, look, they're no tapes.
Speaker 7: We haven't heard from Lance. This is odd. Do you
Speaker 7: know where he is? And she said, well, Lance, you know,
Speaker 7: he probably is still asleep. He hung out really hard.
Speaker 7: I don't know. I'll be over there in a minute.
Speaker 7: So they come by. She comes by the house, you know,
Speaker 7: seize at the garage doors sort of partly open, checks
Speaker 7: some things out, and then goes up, doesn't see him downstairs,
Speaker 7: doesn't see anything, goes up to the bedroom and then
Speaker 7: they hear her this blood curdling scream and they don't
Speaker 7: know what the heck that is. They just hear her
Speaker 7: screaming and running, and they just the rumble of the
Speaker 7: floor above them. They go into the closet and hide
Speaker 7: they think that something like there's a robbery going on.
Speaker 7: They don't know, but it's her sort of panic because
Speaker 7: she finds her son bludgeing to death. You know, he's
Speaker 7: laying there. He's naked, you know, the way when the
Speaker 7: when the when the detectives show, So she calls nine
Speaker 7: one one, and when they show, you know, they find
Speaker 7: this is what they find. They find like a really
Speaker 7: strong sexual element to this crime scene. They find you know,
Speaker 7: in the VCR. They find like a porn tape. It's
Speaker 7: not on, but it's in there. And there's another one
Speaker 7: sitting out. They find him naked. They find condoms up
Speaker 7: on the on the shelf, on the sort of bureau.
Speaker 7: They see some footsteps. There's no forced entry. They don't
Speaker 7: see force find any forced entry into the home. But
Speaker 7: they just find like a honey comb sort of imprint
Speaker 7: on the carpet. They you know, they see blood spatter
Speaker 7: on the on the wall, and they don't see any
Speaker 7: real defensive wounds though. And they find in the commode
Speaker 7: they find bloody pillowcase yep. And so you know, they
Speaker 7: sort of figure based on what they see, you know,
Speaker 7: that it was a crime of passion. I guess they
Speaker 7: kind of decide that because number one, the guy's face
Speaker 7: was like covered up, and I think that they couldn't
Speaker 7: like stand and look at what they had done. Uh,
Speaker 7: they also find what else did they? What else did they?
Speaker 10: And then the alarm clocks.
Speaker 7: Yeah, the alarm clocks were unplugged, so whoever they figured, like, yeah,
Speaker 7: the three they figured okay, this perse they must have
Speaker 7: known those clocks were going to go off, right yeah, yeah,
Speaker 7: so yeah maybe you you know, I think I'm covering
Speaker 7: pretty much covering all of that, right.
Speaker 9: Well, basically what they did, like you said, is that
Speaker 9: this ends up being really circumstantial because there is no weapon.
Speaker 9: They find, no no weather weapon. They find pubic cares,
Speaker 9: but they would expect to find a lot of people's
Speaker 9: hairs at that time based on his promiscuity, so that
Speaker 9: didn't help them. They had found no physical evidence. They said,
Speaker 9: there was no forced entry, no robbery, so they were
Speaker 9: starting at well square one and hence why it took
Speaker 9: so long with this case as well.
Speaker 7: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 9: What is the what is the media response and how
Speaker 9: did they portray this story in the newspapers and television?
Speaker 7: Well, I mean, you know, Lance was sort of a
Speaker 7: kind of a high profile figure, so you know, that
Speaker 7: was the way they found him was just really kind
Speaker 7: of shocking, embarrassing to him, you know. You know, he
Speaker 7: was a huge, huge fundraiser for various politicians and so
Speaker 7: they start wanted to distance themselves from him. You know.
Speaker 7: It was also a shock by you know where it occurred,
Speaker 7: which was this really you know, very quiet enclave and Roswell,
Speaker 7: and yeah, it was. It was. It was a shocker.
Speaker 9: Now, who is the We can't go through how mean
Speaker 9: you as you describing the book.
Speaker 10: It takes quite a the time.
Speaker 9: So they go through all the suspects very very meticulously
Speaker 9: and carefully and have to come back to some people.
Speaker 10: But who is their prime suspect?
Speaker 9: And what did the police do initially immediately after this
Speaker 9: murder in terms of trying to suss out who their
Speaker 9: suspect might be?
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I mean there were three, so it was like, okay, Prior,
Speaker 7: there was Talanta, No, not Talanta, there was Lacey I'm sorry,
Speaker 7: one of his women. And Lacey, you know, okay, she'd
Speaker 7: seen him last because he had this event that he
Speaker 7: was planning for, and so she had come by the
Speaker 7: house and was helping him put together some invitations and
Speaker 7: so they tried her. Obviously they thought of like, okay, Janine,
Speaker 7: they had been divorced or they were separated, and so
Speaker 7: you know the ex wife, that one always comes up,
Speaker 7: you know. And then there was Kathy, who could have
Speaker 7: been you know, he was cheating on her, so she
Speaker 7: was kind of a suspect. They were all of those
Speaker 7: folks kind of had alibis, right. And then there was Dion,
Speaker 7: the Jamaican. You know, she's married, but he's like given
Speaker 7: her like you know, he was kind of her sugar daddy,
Speaker 7: you know. And there was one key key, you know,
Speaker 7: and his whole kind of fastidiousness. She used to borrow
Speaker 7: his computer that was you know, like for school, and
Speaker 7: you know he would all he'd loaded to her, but
Speaker 7: it always had a case on it. I mean, he
Speaker 7: was never going to let that computer out with the
Speaker 7: case without the case. And so when they went to
Speaker 7: talk to her, you know, they searched her home and
Speaker 7: they that computer was there because they said, look when
Speaker 7: they you know, one of the things the employees said like,
Speaker 7: look like all we know is that the one thing
Speaker 7: that's missing, and here is that. And Diona always borrowed
Speaker 7: the computer, and the case is here, but the computer's going.
Speaker 7: They found that computer at her home, so really started
Speaker 7: to try to figure out, like narrow the timeline on
Speaker 7: when that case left the house.
Speaker 9: The other thing is, yes, you introduced this detective Anastasio,
Speaker 9: and this guy says, I'm going to go back and
Speaker 9: start doing some interviews. So there are many interviews, but
Speaker 9: he gets to a chance to talk to Sean Nelson,
Speaker 9: which is Dion's husband, and so they have and what
Speaker 9: he finds out after the fact is that there's information
Speaker 9: like unbeknownst to him is that Dion was having this affair,
Speaker 9: but unbeknownst to him as well as that he had
Speaker 9: the Mercedes, he had told her she had told him
Speaker 9: that some other fanciful story about where she got the Mercedes,
Speaker 9: just from some you know, a friend who was who's
Speaker 9: supportive of her education. So there wasn't gradually his especially
Speaker 9: when they had a phone call where Lance had called
Speaker 9: and demanded to talk to to her, and and her husband,
Speaker 9: Sean wanted to know why he wanted to talk to her,
Speaker 9: And so you tell us a little bit more about
Speaker 9: the story, because it really demonstrates quite a bit about
Speaker 9: a couple of these characters, in fact, all of them.
Speaker 7: Well yeah, I mean, well, you know, I guess one time,
Speaker 7: like Sean, as I mentioned, would come in and you know,
Speaker 7: and to see his wife. And during you know, and
Speaker 7: as he was coming in, he was noticing she was
Speaker 7: more and more distant towards him. But also you know,
Speaker 7: was getting this material like was was sort of these
Speaker 7: gifts he was And at one point she picked up
Speaker 7: picked picked him up from the airport, and she had
Speaker 7: a Mercedes and you know, and and and she explained that, okay,
Speaker 7: you know, I've got this mentor guy and he let me,
Speaker 7: you know, drive it or whatever. And it just didn't
Speaker 7: add up. So one day, you know, I guess they're
Speaker 7: in bed together and Lance calls the Dion's house and
Speaker 7: Sean answers the phone and it's like who is this,
Speaker 7: you know, and they kind of have a little confrontation
Speaker 7: and you know, and I think Lance kind of threatens Sean,
Speaker 7: and uh so, yeah, there was a lot of tension
Speaker 7: around that, around that. But one thing that's key there
Speaker 7: is that during that one incident, and this is really
Speaker 7: really important to the sort of murder and motive and
Speaker 7: what have you, is there are a couple of things
Speaker 7: we've gone over, you know, one, how fastidious he was
Speaker 7: and how what a planner he was, and that night,
Speaker 7: you know, he logged everything into his computer, into his
Speaker 7: calendar and that and that calendar was managed by his employees.
Speaker 7: And that when when when when Dion came to his
Speaker 7: house unannounced, there was a court date and he told
Speaker 7: her that he was going to show up and sort
Speaker 7: of get her off on that he was going to
Speaker 7: testify or whatever at this court date and get this
Speaker 7: whole thing, you know, matter taken care of, expunged or whatever,
Speaker 7: and so on this particular like on the night of
Speaker 7: this murder, you know, she had gone to the home,
Speaker 7: right and this is what, you know, sort of the
Speaker 7: picture that gets painted anyway, is that this was the
Speaker 7: night before he was post to show up at court,
Speaker 7: and I think, like, so they made love. He falls asleep.
Speaker 7: She goes downstairs while he's asleep and checks his calendar
Speaker 7: and sees that there was absolutely is that his appearance,
Speaker 7: his schedule. It's not on there. It's not on there.
Speaker 7: And this is where the you know, the sort of
Speaker 7: picture gets painted is that she goes back upstairs. He
Speaker 7: had been putting together supposedly, you know, a because they
Speaker 7: couldn't find the murder weapon. He had apparently had been
Speaker 7: putting together kind of like a StairMaster of some sort,
Speaker 7: and there was a crescent wrench that was there like
Speaker 7: at like seen apparently by the valet of that house
Speaker 7: and the housekeeper and all of that that question. So
Speaker 7: apparently she you know, straddled him while he was asleep
Speaker 7: and brought that drench down on him some fourteen fifteen times,
Speaker 7: and you could sort of look at the spatter on
Speaker 7: the wall and you could see, you know, and there
Speaker 7: were a couple of times where he may have tried
Speaker 7: to move, and you know, it came down the crown
Speaker 7: of his head. But that's the way this whole thing,
Speaker 7: that's the way the prosecutor painted the night. And that
Speaker 7: was the kind of motive was that she realized that
Speaker 7: he was just playing her, and she was just enraged.
Speaker 9: The other part of her was quite irrational, and she
Speaker 9: always she also had was had that the big lie
Speaker 9: with her husband in the phone call the night before
Speaker 9: the murder, where she had bought a house for one
Speaker 9: hundred and eighty thousand, she had the Mercedes, and and
Speaker 9: so then there was a little bit of more evidence
Speaker 9: to this was that she ordered some antique a piece
Speaker 9: of furniture after ye.
Speaker 7: Like yeah, like ran up the credit cards like after
Speaker 7: his you know death.
Speaker 9: Yeah, And she and she had said to her husband, Sean,
Speaker 9: I mean again, you categorize him as whimpy, and he definitely.
Speaker 7: Is, she said.
Speaker 9: He said, you got to give that car back. And
Speaker 9: have you ever slept with this guy? And she said,
Speaker 9: of course not. No, I never slept with him, but
Speaker 9: he gave me the Mercedes to use. But she said, well,
Speaker 9: I'll give it to him back to him gradually. I
Speaker 9: don't want to get him mad or anything.
Speaker 10: And so he agreed with that.
Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah, I mean you know, I mean he was
Speaker 7: from you know, really sort of well to do family,
Speaker 7: I mean a by all accounts, he was just like
Speaker 7: a really good, supportive, sweet guy who was way over
Speaker 7: his head with this with this very cunning woman that
Speaker 7: he married.
Speaker 10: Now as very much to be expected.
Speaker 9: She gets a really good attorney eventually, and then he
Speaker 9: realizes he's a little over his head in terms of experience,
Speaker 9: so he gets another experienced guy and they make a
Speaker 9: pretty good team and sort of a saw like you
Speaker 9: call it a soft touch in the cross exam examination.
Speaker 9: And the other guy, he's really Quinn. He's really aggressive,
Speaker 9: and so he can he can do some damage and
Speaker 9: and make some headway in terms of on the stand
Speaker 9: with these witnesses and you and you have everybody from
Speaker 9: Lacy Banks who's eight months pregnant, taking the stand, to
Speaker 9: Kathy Collins taking the stand, and in the end, the
Speaker 9: Dion Baum takes the stand as well. Very very interesting.
Speaker 9: Tell us a little bit about the testimony of Dion
Speaker 9: on the stand the cross examination.
Speaker 7: Mmm. No, they never put her on the stand. They
Speaker 7: never put Dion Ball on the stand.
Speaker 10: Okay, okay, sorry, no.
Speaker 7: No, no, Dion Ball. That would have been a nightmare.
Speaker 7: I mean the Kathy, you know, the the uh you
Speaker 7: know Katy, like you know they put Kathy was sort
Speaker 7: of the star of that in a kind of a
Speaker 7: humorous way because Kathy, you know, got on this like
Speaker 7: what you know, she was just such a diva. You know.
Speaker 7: One of the things that she was worried about, like
Speaker 7: was like during the crime, like as the investigators had
Speaker 7: sort of shut the house down, you know, she had
Speaker 7: clothes in there, and like she was pissed off because
Speaker 7: they wouldn't let her kind of come in there and
Speaker 7: get her wardrobe. And so she put like a two
Speaker 7: or three paid list of all this designer stuff that
Speaker 7: she needed to get out of that house. You know.
Speaker 7: So that was that kind of you know, yeah, I
Speaker 7: mean he had sort of some real characters around him.
Speaker 7: You know, it was interesting.
Speaker 9: She specified merlot Wine had to had to be that
Speaker 9: was hers.
Speaker 7: She said it was.
Speaker 10: Her.
Speaker 7: That was Yeah, that's what she wanted to Yeah, and
Speaker 7: this man's dead and you know, but I think like
Speaker 7: Lacey was genuinely hurt, like her friend. Yeah, that was
Speaker 7: her friend. Mm hmm.
Speaker 9: Now you talk about the thing as well, and it
Speaker 9: it in terms of by the time this trial starts,
Speaker 9: it looks like his friends are gone and uh and
Speaker 9: dion Bao doesn't have her many supporters whatsoever.
Speaker 10: So it's just the media there. But everybody takes their
Speaker 10: turn testifying.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean that sort of you know, this kind
Speaker 7: of reflects the superficiality of his life, you know, I
Speaker 7: mean he had worked so hard to develop these networks
Speaker 7: of people and had been successful at that, but you know,
Speaker 7: the more he was just dragged through the mud, and
Speaker 7: the more it just was, you know, you learned about
Speaker 7: him the more people wanted to distance themselves themselves from
Speaker 7: from him, so he was very much alone, you know,
Speaker 7: and you know, and ultimately I just wanted in the
Speaker 7: book to I asked myself sort of you know, this
Speaker 7: big question, you know, like you know, you know, you
Speaker 7: hear about black males dying all the time on like
Speaker 7: street corners, you know, and this was a guy who
Speaker 7: was anything but that, yet he died, you know, and
Speaker 7: in a really violent way. And so it was like,
Speaker 7: what how does a man kind of with the world
Speaker 7: and his fingertips, you know, wind up dying that kind
Speaker 7: of horrific death, you know what, and and and and
Speaker 7: and how much of a role did you know sort
Speaker 7: of the values of of of sort of the black
Speaker 7: nouveau riche in Atlanta play into that and the sort
Speaker 7: of skewed value systems, and you know, and I wanted
Speaker 7: to and all that's the question I wanted to ask,
Speaker 7: you know, like if if if you know, there's theories
Speaker 7: you know of like this whole kind of black male
Speaker 7: as a as a kind of endangered species and you know,
Speaker 7: being you know, selected out you know in some way,
Speaker 7: you know, to what extent, you know, what role do
Speaker 7: they play in their own kind of demise, and that
Speaker 7: was sort of the broader question. And so Lance in
Speaker 7: my you know, was sort of a cautionary tale of
Speaker 7: a kind of metaphor for you know, a you know,
Speaker 7: success kind of gone awry if you will. Yep, So
Speaker 7: that was the that was the That's what I was
Speaker 7: trying to get at with that. Dan.
Speaker 9: I think too that he had great success. You know,
Speaker 9: you don't betray him as really a bad guy. Wasn't
Speaker 9: a bad guy. He was a serious business guy. He
Speaker 9: seemed to be a nice guy. Really, he seemed to
Speaker 9: be a pretty pretty good guy despite being a successful businessman,
Speaker 9: and he could manipulate, take advantage of people. He seemed
Speaker 9: to be a pretty good guy. But with that being said,
Speaker 9: he had a good relationship with Lacy Banks, he had
Speaker 9: a solid relationship with Sonya Adams. These people were really
Speaker 9: friends of his and he could trust these people. And
Speaker 9: so he had coffee Kathy Collins in before that, Genine Price,
Speaker 9: and he had close friends like as you talk about
Speaker 9: in the book, Paul Howard from the that was very
Speaker 9: influential and.
Speaker 12: In this case as well, people that knew him a
Speaker 12: day himself, right, the da himself knew him, he was
Speaker 12: friends with him, you know, And so the DA was
Speaker 12: kind of a quest, like I gotta help, I gotta
Speaker 12: figure this out.
Speaker 7: And you know, I mean, it sort of happened even
Speaker 7: for me because, as I mentioned, I had gone down
Speaker 7: there Dan like just poking around, and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 7: who's this big player? You know? And and and and
Speaker 7: and this is really really kind of like a dominique
Speaker 7: Dune kind of yarn. And I was just viewing it
Speaker 7: from the prism of just a really interesting who done it?
Speaker 7: You know? And and and I did two or three trips,
Speaker 7: and then there was like one trip I went and
Speaker 7: I don't remember. I was sitting. It was late night,
Speaker 7: and you know, we were tired. I was in the
Speaker 7: Assistant Prosecutor, Clint Rutger's office, and he sort of said, hey, man,
Speaker 7: have you ever seen the crime scene pictures? And I
Speaker 7: said no, in fact, I haven't. He said, hold on
Speaker 7: and he left, and he came back a couple of
Speaker 7: minutes later, and he was an envelope and he like
Speaker 7: tossed him out, you know, took the pictures out and
Speaker 7: tossed them on the table right there in front of me,
Speaker 7: on the desk, And when I saw these photographs, I
Speaker 7: had never seen that, like this was someone who's just
Speaker 7: skull was just bashed in dozens of times. And I
Speaker 7: really felt like a little embarrassed that I hadn't truly
Speaker 7: considered the human vanity of this person. You know that
Speaker 7: no one, based on what I had been hearing, like
Speaker 7: he didn't need to die like that, he didn't need
Speaker 7: to die at all, but goodness gracious, what a death.
Speaker 7: And I thought, like, you know, the least I could
Speaker 7: do in the book, if I can somewhat kind of
Speaker 7: humanize him and you know, give him back some of
Speaker 7: that dignity, then that's you know, and that's also was
Speaker 7: what I was trying to pull off.
Speaker 9: Well, you know, you really do have access to information
Speaker 9: that you know, really Dion Boo is really a psychopath,
Speaker 9: and her treatment of her husband and her own child,
Speaker 9: and and of course this person that was her benefactor
Speaker 9: at this time to turn on him like this, and
Speaker 9: like there again, we can't go through the whole trial
Speaker 9: at all, but there was a question that could a
Speaker 9: five foot three woman one hundred and ten pounds do
Speaker 9: this much damage, no matter how mad?
Speaker 10: He was?
Speaker 7: Right right, Well, you know, if the guy was asleep,
Speaker 7: you know, and couldn't react, there were no real defensive
Speaker 7: wounds on his sort of you know, on his forearms
Speaker 7: or any of that, you know. I mean that was
Speaker 7: the that was the scenario that that was painted. Is
Speaker 7: that you know now true? Yeah?
Speaker 9: Throughout his trial, of course, his defense lawyers rightfully are
Speaker 9: trying to cast doubt on people like or cast suspicion
Speaker 9: pardon me, on people like Lacy Banks or Kathy Collins
Speaker 9: or anyone else they can through their successive cross examinations
Speaker 9: of these witnesses. What is what is the Dion Bow's
Speaker 9: demeanor at trial?
Speaker 7: I mean she's sort of like really really stoick, like
Speaker 7: there's not that much emotion whatsoever. You know, she almost smug,
Speaker 7: you know, which is typically her disposition frankly, you know.
Speaker 7: And I mean when I went into the prison and
Speaker 7: met her, I found her to be kind of like
Speaker 7: that too, And maybe I misread her, but even in prison,
Speaker 7: you know, there was nothing humble about her. And she
Speaker 7: went to trial a couple of times. I mean, at
Speaker 7: one point I had been trying to get in to
Speaker 7: see her. I figured like, there's no way I can
Speaker 7: get to this. I can finish this dog on book
Speaker 7: without like talking to her. I got to talk to her.
Speaker 7: She's in prison now, you know. And I would send
Speaker 7: these letters to her. They would always come back rejected, rejected, rejected,
Speaker 7: And some folks in the newsroom said, look, man, you
Speaker 7: need to send her like you need to become a
Speaker 7: little human, like, like, send her a picture. I don't
Speaker 7: know who you are. And I sent her a picture
Speaker 7: of myself and talked to him, and I came back
Speaker 7: rejected again, you know. And so when I finally met her,
Speaker 7: I get gone into Atlanta, I had like a I
Speaker 7: went in and I had a suit on and stuff.
Speaker 7: I'll tell you how I got, you know, to meet her.
Speaker 7: But anyway, when I got in there, I said like, wow,
Speaker 7: you I'm surprised you, you know, agreed to meet with me.
Speaker 7: And she's like, well, yes, you look more important that
Speaker 7: you have a suit on when the picture you sent
Speaker 7: me had like a leather jacket or I only I
Speaker 7: only deal with like important people, something really ridiculous like that.
Speaker 7: Yeah I didn't, yeah, you know, but I didn't. Yeah,
Speaker 7: And I was trying, you know, I just went at
Speaker 7: the wrong angle, I guess, you know.
Speaker 10: But she she is she has continually just denied this
Speaker 10: right no matter what.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 9: But despite everything, obviously obviously she was convicted. Then what
Speaker 9: was this sentence in that state? What can they give her?
Speaker 9: Can they give her with a.
Speaker 7: Without people like yeah, no, no, no, actually I went
Speaker 7: through so many permutations. So, like he was, the first
Speaker 7: trial was over, the decision was overturned because they said
Speaker 7: that Anastasia the detective was sort of leading the witness, right,
Speaker 7: And then the second trial was a hung jury, and
Speaker 7: then the Sam House before the third trial, Sam House
Speaker 7: was the chief investigator and a really key you know,
Speaker 7: witness died and so they didn't think after the hungury,
Speaker 7: they didn't think that they could necessarily and people had
Speaker 7: moved on. They didn't know whether they could get a
Speaker 7: conviction again. And so she pled guilty and she got
Speaker 7: I think that she's free now. Dion Ball is like, yeah,
Speaker 7: she's not behind.
Speaker 10: Bars now, so it's down to a manslaughter.
Speaker 7: Right, yeah. I think she got like like seven or
Speaker 7: eight years, and she had already like done three.
Speaker 9: She had been offered a deal that might have given
Speaker 9: her even less time than that, but she was not
Speaker 9: interested in an apparently, and you write in your book.
Speaker 10: She was in prison, she was freaking out. She just
Speaker 10: where's my bottled water?
Speaker 7: Yeah, where's my bottle water? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, it's not
Speaker 7: a country club, it's a prison.
Speaker 9: And so what was your overall impression from this woman?
Speaker 9: You know, I mean, I guess I don't know how
Speaker 9: many words you could describe.
Speaker 10: Was she desperate? Was she cocky? What? What was your
Speaker 10: overall impression after your interview with him with her?
Speaker 7: I really think, like you said that this she was
Speaker 7: a sociopath. I think that that the idea. I mean,
Speaker 7: Lance Herndon was kind of a master manipulator. And you know,
Speaker 7: I think he just I think she took him very
Speaker 7: seriously and add his word, and I think she was
Speaker 7: I think he just counted the wrong person, and I
Speaker 7: think she snapped on him.
Speaker 9: And what do you think her her motive was that
Speaker 9: he made that the sugar Daddy was not going to
Speaker 9: be there anymore, and that was the reason, plus the
Speaker 9: plus the court, the court case itself.
Speaker 7: So yeah, that he lied to her that he was
Speaker 7: not planning on coming and looking out for she was
Speaker 7: afraid of what would happen to her on that end,
Speaker 7: and I think she was just like how dare you
Speaker 7: you know, and you know he had sex with her
Speaker 7: moments before.
Speaker 10: M Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 10: The one of the interesting thing was the one of
Speaker 10: the bigger mistakes she made was to use that credit
Speaker 10: card that next day.
Speaker 7: To buy something that was that smart.
Speaker 9: And you also you also have a very very interesting
Speaker 9: when they originally went Anastasia went to her home and
Speaker 9: she pretended not to be home, then ran out to
Speaker 9: the neighbor after the police had already canvased the neighborhood,
Speaker 9: and then the neighbor rat it on her and said, yeah,
Speaker 9: she was just asking me was what you had asked
Speaker 9: her or what she had asked us about you? And
Speaker 9: so then they returned and then there was this whole
Speaker 9: incredible theatrical scene where she was running and falling down
Speaker 9: and crying but you know, no tears.
Speaker 7: With no tears, right, yeah.
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's a fascinating story.
Speaker 9: Well, she's just among some of the wild characters in
Speaker 9: this story read including Lance too. I mean, you talk
Speaker 9: about a guy that you say is particular, but this
Speaker 9: guy was really a very very interesting guy in wanting
Speaker 9: this certain lifestyle, and so it is a fascinating tale
Speaker 9: and you bring the reader right into this incredible world
Speaker 9: of of opulence. And I guess I don't know about decadence,
Speaker 9: but at least it was definitely uh some lavish, lavish
Speaker 9: stuff going on here, some money being spent and so
Speaker 9: some people doing well.
Speaker 10: So very very interesting.
Speaker 9: So I want to thank you very much for coming
Speaker 9: on and talking about Redbone a.
Speaker 7: Millionaire and oh, thank you Dan much.
Speaker 9: Now, if people, if people want to know a little
Speaker 9: bit more, I don't know if you have a website
Speaker 9: or if you do Facebook, So tell us if there is.
Speaker 7: People you know, I mean, there's you know, it's my name,
Speaker 7: you know, Ron Stodgil r O n Stodgil s t
Speaker 7: O d G h I l L dot com, you know,
Speaker 7: and and you'll see the book on that there. You know. Uh,
Speaker 7: HarperCollins was the publisher of that book. So it's still available,
Speaker 7: you know, on Amazon, you can get it there and
Speaker 7: you know de Barn all those sites, you know, and
Speaker 7: so it's been every if you watch enough TV, you
Speaker 7: know I've been on. It's been on like a couple
Speaker 7: of the true crime things because people would find different angles,
Speaker 7: like you know, people like the lands Hernon thing, you
Speaker 7: know what I mean. But I got to say that
Speaker 7: this is your your your take, and your uh examination
Speaker 7: has been like the most thorough that I've ever done.
Speaker 7: So you've read it, and I'm flattered, Dan, and you
Speaker 7: do an excellent, excellent job at at at this. I
Speaker 7: appreciate it. And you challenged me, you know, you know,
Speaker 7: you've you know, so bravo.
Speaker 10: Well, thank you, thank you very much. No, it was
Speaker 10: my pleasure.
Speaker 9: I mean, it's just a fantastic book and an incredible read.
Speaker 9: And again it's just a fascinating slice of history for
Speaker 9: everybody that you know at that time, anybody that lived anywhere.
Speaker 9: You get the slice of Americana that you just everything
Speaker 9: included the R and B music, the guy singing Happy
Speaker 9: Birthday to Lance and then shortly after his face is
Speaker 9: crushed in his own bed by somebody who gave him
Speaker 9: Mercedes to him heave one hundred and eighty thousand.
Speaker 7: So wow, yeah, so much for.
Speaker 10: Treating anybody good anyway.
Speaker 12: So good yeah, yeah, well, thank you, thank you, thank
Speaker 12: you very much.
Speaker 7: It's a pleasure. Yeah, Okay, thank you. Have a great night,
Speaker 7: you too, Good night night.