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True Murder with your 57 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:37.360 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 58 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:48.520 Good Evening. 59 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:52.919 Lance Hurdon was at the top of his game in 60 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:56.280 nineteen ninety six, at age forty one. He was a 61 00:02:56.319 --> 00:03:00.439 self made millionaire, the owner of Access in Corporate, a 62 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:05.840 successful information systems consulting company. As a prominent member of 63 00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:09.840 Atlanta's young, wealthy and powerful set, he was surrounded by 64 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:13.719 black Atlanta's beautiful people. But when he failed to show 65 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:16.319 up for work one day, friends and family started to worry. 66 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:20.520 Their worries soon turned to horror when he was found 67 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:24.199 murdered in his own home, his head smashed in in 68 00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:27.879 what appeared to be either an act of jealousy fueled 69 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:31.759 rage or a seedy or sex crime with a laundry 70 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:35.879 list of ex wives and lovers, competitors, critics, and miers 71 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:38.800 in hand, detectives had to break through the city's upper 72 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:44.280 crust to discover his killer. Journalist Ron Stodgil tells the 73 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:49.000 riveting true story of this investigation, part investigative thriller, part 74 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:55.240 sociological commentary. Redbone offers a truly intriguing story the Channel's 75 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:58.280 insight into one of America's great metropolises. 76 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:01.039 The book that were feature this evening. 77 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:06.240 Is Redbone, The Millionaire and the Gold Digger, with my 78 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:11.560 special guest, journalist and author Ron Stodgil. Welcome to the 79 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:13.520 program and thank you for a Greenness interview. 80 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:16.839 Ron Stoggil, Hey Dan, how are you? 81 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:19.279 Thank you for having me. Dan appreciate it. 82 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:21.120 Thank thank you very much. 83 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:25.319 Very very interesting story and we get to see another 84 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:32.439 slice of Americana with this, uh incredible story. What tell us, 85 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:34.439 without giving any of this story away, because I have 86 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:37.360 lots of questions for you, tell us how you came 87 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:39.639 to be in a position that you would write this 88 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:42.160 book Redbone. 89 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:47.160 Wow, I wish I had like a real sexy you 90 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:50.600 know answer for that. But I'll tell you I came 91 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:53.360 about it, you know, I was. I was This was 92 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:56.800 like pre nine eleven, and I was a writer at 93 00:04:57.439 --> 00:05:02.879 Time magazine in New York and kind of I was 94 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:05.920 talking to my dad one morning actually, and he had 95 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:11.360 been watching Court TV. You know, he's retired, and he 96 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:16.079 was sort of distracted as we talked, and Dad, what's 97 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:18.399 the deal, like, you know, like talk to me. And 98 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:20.519 he was like, well, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. There's just 99 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:24.800 these go watching Court TV and these hot, hot, beautiful 100 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:28.639 women taking the stand one after another, and they're testifying 101 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:31.879 about the murder of this guy who was this entrepreneur 102 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:37.000 in Atlanta, you know. And and it was sort of 103 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:43.199 like Atlanta that really rang the bell for me, mostly 104 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:47.319 because you know, as an African American, having grown up 105 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:52.319 in Detroit, a big major city, I'd watched so many 106 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:55.399 people like there was this reverse migration of people who 107 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:58.639 had left, you know, moved north to work in the 108 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:02.279 factories that would be my family. My granddad, you know, 109 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:06.680 worked in like the Cadillac plant, the Fisher Body plant 110 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:08.959 is what it was called. And you know, and they 111 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:13.079 but they were like decades later, you know, those opportunities 112 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:16.560 have sort of dried up and they were moving south again, 113 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:21.319 you know, and this was their their sort of progeny, 114 00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:24.480 their children, you know, that we were all moving and 115 00:06:24.519 --> 00:06:26.879 so there was this sort of u turn that had happened. 116 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:33.560 And I love just narrative journalism. I love journalism about place, 117 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:39.000 and I always thought Atlanta would be a great backdrop. 118 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:41.319 But I just never it would be a history lesson. 119 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:44.240 I just wanted to tell the story of Atlanta, you know, 120 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:51.040 and and you know it's very influenced by Capodi, you know, 121 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:55.879 and and and in cold Blood and what he you know, 122 00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:59.680 did in the in the heartland, uh, you know, with 123 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:02.560 with that book and that murder. And then another one 124 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:06.639 more modern, which was the John Barrent book Midnight in 125 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:08.759 the Garden of Good and Evil, which was you know, 126 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:13.600 another but it was sort of at Savannah played like 127 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:16.480 it was its own character. And I always thought so 128 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:21.040 when I looked and I saw, you know, did a 129 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:26.079 little research on Lance, I thought, wow, Okay, the Stude's 130 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:29.439 a real player. You know. He ran around with the 131 00:07:29.480 --> 00:07:31.560 mayor at the time, and he was just he had 132 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:36.680 been cited by the Bush administration for his entrepreneurship and 133 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:40.800 the Clinton administration, and I thought, let me just go 134 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:45.639 poke around. I had just finished a fellowship you know, 135 00:07:45.959 --> 00:07:48.639 at Harvard, and it sort of blew my mind. Here 136 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:50.839 I was thinking I went back to work after a 137 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:54.360 year long. I just was sort of restless, and I 138 00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:58.120 got on a flight, and you know, I'd set up 139 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:01.920 an interview with the prosecutor. So I went and just 140 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:04.920 tried to just kind of poke around and see what 141 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:07.399 I could figure out and see whether there was a 142 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:11.360 real book in it. Dan, Yeah, that's pretty much how 143 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:14.600 it happened. So it was like, you know, the thing 144 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:18.560 that draws all folks to to to to intrigue. It was, 145 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:21.079 you know, gorgeous women. That's what it started. 146 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:24.480 Why not? 147 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:25.079 Why not? 148 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:30.040 Yeah, So before we go any further, just briefly explain 149 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:34.399 what redbone refers to in terms of black people and 150 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:36.639 so that whole phenomena. Tell us a little bit about 151 00:08:36.679 --> 00:08:41.080 the light skinned idea and what someone would be classified 152 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:41.720 as redbone. 153 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:43.639 What is that description of that person? 154 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:46.559 I mean, you know, I mean without going into a 155 00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:49.320 real deep history, I mean, we know what sort of 156 00:08:49.399 --> 00:08:51.639 happened in the you know, in the big house or 157 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:54.600 in the slave quarters during you know, slavery, and so 158 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:58.080 there was you know, race mixing, and so you know 159 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:01.120 what you wound up with, well, you know, these you know, 160 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:07.919 very fair skinned women with European features, you know, over time, 161 00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:12.039 and they tended also because they learned to read earlier 162 00:09:12.039 --> 00:09:14.600 than you know, and they were kind of more pampered, 163 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:18.799 you know than sort of the say of the house labor. 164 00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:23.039 You know. They they were just fair skinned, you know, 165 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:26.960 and and and they had a level of status. And 166 00:09:27.039 --> 00:09:29.080 of course it was in the South, and so that 167 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:33.080 were really you want to like really just divide a 168 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:38.679 room of African Americans. You know, it's sort of it 169 00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:41.159 can be offensive. You know, it's sort of like to 170 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:44.159 call it your redbone, but it is kind of a 171 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:52.000 it's uh, it's it's it's Southern slang really for black women, 172 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:58.039 fair black women with like European features, you know, mm hmm. 173 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:01.879 Now, the main subject of this book, and. 174 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:07.120 By the way, that's what Lance Herndon the you know, 175 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:14.919 the the the the subject of the book. You know, 176 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:20.320 that's was his preference. That's what he liked, that kind 177 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:24.000 of woman, you know, that was that that hints the title. 178 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:29.240 Let's before we talk about Lance Herndon, let's talk about 179 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:33.639 Atlanta itself. And because you really do talk about you know, 180 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:40.360 a really forward thinking mayor, a very progressive government in 181 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:44.279 Atlanta that made it available that contracts were given to 182 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:46.720 black people. So tell us a little bit about the 183 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:51.000 fascinating history that you chronicle in this book about Atlanta 184 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:54.360 and its rise to a place where they have five 185 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:57.519 colleges and it's you know, really like you've mentioned, a 186 00:10:57.639 --> 00:11:02.240 mecca for black professionals and people black people to aspire to, 187 00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:05.399 to a place where they could really achieve everything they 188 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:06.159 really wanted to. 189 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:10.000 Yeah, and you know, I'm working right now actually on 190 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:14.720 a book on historically black colleges and narrative. I mean, 191 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:18.919 these colleges were born right after you know, slavery to 192 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:22.039 educate free slaves, and they were birthed by you know, 193 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:29.000 white missionaries and and uh and abolitionists and uh. You know, 194 00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:35.480 Atlanta became you know, the kind of epicenter for you know, 195 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:40.559 sort of black higher education. And so today, you know, 196 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:44.919 there there's what Spelman and Clark there was, there's a 197 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:49.039 struggling Morris Brown. There's more House College in which you 198 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:52.720 know President Obama just a couple of years ago gave 199 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:58.159 the commencement. That's an all boys boys liberal arts school 200 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:02.600 where you know, doctor Martin Luther King is among the graduates. 201 00:12:02.639 --> 00:12:05.879 You know, you know, lots of graduates, whether it be 202 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:08.919 a Spike Lee or Sam Jackson or Martin Luther King, 203 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:17.039 you know, or Lewis Sullivan, the former Human Services Cabinet head, 204 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:21.759 and so it you know, because of that, you've got 205 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:28.159 generations of just really educated black people, more than most 206 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:31.919 cities in the country, arguably more than any you know. 207 00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:36.240 And so you know, the black elite in America have 208 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:40.519 a tie particularly you know, a couple of generations ago, 209 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:45.200 like to to Atlanta, and so you've got kind of 210 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:49.360 an old guard, you know, a blue blood class of 211 00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:52.879 doctors and lawyers, you know, like I mean when doctor 212 00:12:53.080 --> 00:13:00.320 King graduated morehouse you know, in the fifties, I think 213 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:05.159 he was third generation on his mother's side, you know, 214 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:10.480 of more house men. And so this is how far back, 215 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:16.840 you know, that kind of pedigree goes. And so then 216 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:19.399 you so that is the kind of old guard. It 217 00:13:19.519 --> 00:13:22.000 was the first, you know, one of the first cities 218 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:26.799 you know to elect the black mayor, you know, and 219 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:31.360 that was Maynor Jackson in the late seventies, you know, 220 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:35.759 and and and Maynor Jackson used you know, a lot 221 00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:40.200 of kind of uh set aside programs, you know, as 222 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:46.080 Atlanta was growing up and just sort of funneled business 223 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:50.679 towards black entrepreneurs and so, you know, to make sure 224 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:54.519 that they were not left out of the city's growth. 225 00:13:54.679 --> 00:14:01.279 And so hence you got this class of their black millionaires. 226 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:06.039 He created black you know, a class of black wealth 227 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:10.799 that was unparalleled, you know, and it was attractive. You know, 228 00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:12.879 when people heard that, it was kind of like a 229 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:16.960 clarion call to folks in other parts of the country 230 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:22.399 to come there, right and try to break through themselves. 231 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:28.360 Now the subject, as we mentioned Lance Herndon, he's forty 232 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:30.440 one at the time of his demise. 233 00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:31.279 So we'll go back. 234 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:35.159 He was born in nineteen fifty five, and he spent 235 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:40.039 some time in Farmville, Virginia, because his family is as 236 00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:42.080 you right, he kind of had a family that really 237 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:46.039 didn't neglected him quite a bit, and his parents split 238 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:49.960 when he was an adolescent, and he really looked up 239 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:54.200 to and admired his grandparents, but especially his grandfather, John 240 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:59.799 Harrison Herndon and his grandmother Elver And so tell us 241 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:03.159 how now he a little bit about his early life 242 00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:07.320 and before we talk about his twenties and when to 243 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:10.240 become successful in his marriages. So tell us a little 244 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:14.559 bit about his adolescents life, as you do in Redbone. 245 00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:17.000 Yeah, I'm trying to. I mean, you are testing my 246 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:20.159 memory here. The book was published in seven and I'm 247 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:23.559 now like a couple of books. But it's always fun 248 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:26.919 to try to like reconnect to Lance and you know, 249 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:31.320 and I'm always fascinated by him. But you know, the 250 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:38.080 the he was in the end a real real like 251 00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:43.360 his work ethic was just really impressive, you know, and 252 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:46.320 we'll get into that later in terms of how structured 253 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:48.960 he was and how disciplined he was, and how he 254 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:55.840 knew how to make and stretch a dollar. But you know, yeah, 255 00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:59.679 his mom, if I recall, you know, work two or 256 00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:03.039 three jobs, you know, and this is in New York 257 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:05.519 he was born. His dad was sort of a he 258 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:10.279 did like I think, some delivery stuff, but they were gone, 259 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:13.840 you know, most of the time, and they raised him 260 00:16:13.879 --> 00:16:16.720 almost by like notes, you know, just leave a note 261 00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:18.639 on the fridge, and this is what you're eating, and 262 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:23.480 and and so he wound up in Farmville, Virginia with 263 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:30.080 his granddad, who was a farmer, and you know, really 264 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:34.759 that is where that work ethic started. Right, He had 265 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:37.600 a very you know, he was a good student, always 266 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:42.519 a really kind of technical mind, which led into you know, 267 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:45.559 the business that he wound up running, which we'll get into. 268 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:50.440 But yeah, Lance loved his granddad, right, I mean, that 269 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:54.440 was his role model, and that's kind of where he 270 00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:58.600 got his his I guess you could say his ambition 271 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:03.399 right there in Farmville, Virginia. 272 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:06.680 Now let's skip a little bit ahead. You say he 273 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:11.079 is a character. Now one question after I asked this 274 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:13.839 question here in terms of he has a couple failed 275 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:16.519 marriages in his twenties, and then in the nineties he 276 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:20.359 meets his third wife while he's vacationing in Brazil and 277 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:24.400 she's staring at a statue of Jesus, and so it 278 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:28.720 seems like it's of course divine intervention here and he 279 00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:33.640 meets Janine Price. But before we go any further, describe 280 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:38.000 Lance Herndon for us, he's about five foot ten, but 281 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:41.880 just his facial features and what he looks like, you. 282 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:44.960 Know, I mean, Lance was like, maybe not in like 283 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:49.400 a classic sense, you know, like a real you know, 284 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:54.559 like a handsome guy, but he had like plenty plenty 285 00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:57.599 of style. You know, he would you know, had a 286 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:01.799 regular appointment with the Have Dasher in Atlanta, and he 287 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:05.359 always had tailored you know, tailored clothes and he was 288 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:11.119 very sort of fastidious in his his appearance. Right. He 289 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:17.000 was you know, kind of small in stature, so maybe 290 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:20.279 there was a bit of a Napoleon complex there. You know, 291 00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:23.319 it's a short cropped hair and you know, not the 292 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:28.799 best kind of a ruddy skin, you know. But he 293 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:32.400 was pulled together man, and just pulled together and had 294 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:35.279 a lot of as a as the kids call it now, 295 00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:36.400 he had a lot of swag. 296 00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:44.720 Yeah, what business does He eventually become a successful entrepreneur. 297 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:49.400 I mean, you know computer like, you know, sort of 298 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:52.880 data processing and computer so you know, he would get 299 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:57.039 the contract like Atlanta, you know, the major companies, whether 300 00:18:57.079 --> 00:19:01.079 it was Nation's Bank or or Coke Cocola. You know, 301 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:07.519 they would farm out some of their data processing and 302 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:11.160 so he would wind up getting pieces of that business 303 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:15.480 and he grew it. He grew it really large for 304 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:16.880 an entrepreneur, right. 305 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:20.480 And part of his success was that he was this 306 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:25.559 super organized, super detailed person that would remember people's birthdays, 307 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:30.160 send them presents, and do those little things to keep 308 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:32.920 networks very very strong. So he was very personable in 309 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:35.519 that very very generous, but it was all business. But 310 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:38.359 he was very very serious about that type of business 311 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:39.400 and that type of networking. 312 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:42.440 Yeah, I mean, he was the kind of guy if 313 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:45.880 he found out, you know, that your son was a 314 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:49.240 Braves fan, you know, he might just sort of like 315 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.079 get a Brave hat and like before you know, and 316 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:55.079 he would ask what the kid's birthday was, and he 317 00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:57.680 would jot it down and on that day, he'd you know, 318 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:00.440 get to the you know, the hat would would show 319 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:03.680 up at your office or your home or whatever. He 320 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:09.039 was always really really just super considerate and he took 321 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:12.680 you know, he's really tedious with with his notes about 322 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:16.000 you and it was kind of it was opportunistic and shrewd, 323 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:20.480 but it was also pretty flattering two people who were 324 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.960 in his in his network. He never missed a birthday, 325 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:30.319 you know. I mean, his his calendar was like full 326 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:35.519 from you know when he was, when he when when 327 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.519 you know, when he died, it was like three years out. 328 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:43.079 That's how what a planner he was. It was also 329 00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:45.440 like would get up and I don't know whether you 330 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:47.440 know he would he would sort of he was an 331 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:51.960 early riser. You know, he kept his business in his home, 332 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:55.240 in his basement. So there was this you know sort 333 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:58.920 of top two three floors, top two floors, and then 334 00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:02.279 beneath that though, were the offices because he was just 335 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:05.000 like okay, you know, it was an office suite, so 336 00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:10.319 that his employees would enter and through the through the 337 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:14.039 you know, go down into the that that that bottom level. 338 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:19.759 But you know, he would wake up at three am, right, 339 00:21:20.119 --> 00:21:23.720 and then he would go downstairs and he would record 340 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:29.720 directions in like four three or four tape recorders, like 341 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:34.759 you know, Zanya, I need you to call Nations Bank 342 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:38.799 and da da da da, and Holly, I need you 343 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:42.400 to make reservations for such and so. And he would 344 00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:44.519 leave there so that way he didn't have to talk 345 00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:47.839 to him during the day. He didn't really thought talking 346 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:53.839 to his employees was sort of inefficient, and so that's 347 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:55.720 what he would do. I mean, that's the kind of 348 00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:58.319 he had three He was a heavy sleeper, so he 349 00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:01.519 had like three alarm clocks the room. So one would 350 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:05.279 go off and then he might you know, snooze a little, 351 00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:07.119 but the other one would go off, and they were 352 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:12.480 set like at like fifteen I think fifteen twenty minute intervals. 353 00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:14.559 I mean, he was just kind of like, you know, 354 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:18.920 strange guy. 355 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:22.839 Now, he also what was odd as well as that 356 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.720 he was obsessive about Again, we talked about hygiene, but 357 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:28.720 he would take three or four hours a day. But 358 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:32.839 he would also what he said, he would record instructions 359 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:36.079 to his employees and have them on their desks, you know, 360 00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:40.960 you know, every single day. It was really reminiscent of 361 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:43.359 the kind of notes that he got and the kind 362 00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:45.519 of parenting he got, wasn't it. 363 00:22:46.039 --> 00:22:49.240 Yeah, Yeah, I guess you'd yeah, that was it. I mean, 364 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:54.440 he was sort of raised on sticky, sticky notes, and 365 00:22:54.519 --> 00:22:58.240 so I guess he took that. Yeah. It worked, It worked, 366 00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:03.319 you know, and they expected that from him, you know, 367 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:08.640 they expected to show up and have those directions recorded 368 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:11.200 for them that. 369 00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:18.240 Now, now let's talk about his lifestyle and that including 370 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:22.359 his love of women and his relationships with women and 371 00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:25.599 how he had those relationships and how they were characterized. 372 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:28.279 So he was married. We'll talk about when he was 373 00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:29.559 married to Janine Price. 374 00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.880 Now she's a with lucky landslots. You can get lucky 375 00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:35.160 just about anywhere. 376 00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:38.799 Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen 377 00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:40.119 the bride and broom? 378 00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:43.039 Sorry, sorry, we're here. We were getting lucky in the 379 00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:44.359 limo and we lost track of time. 380 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:47.920 No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up 381 00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:49.200 quicker than he gets registered. 382 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:53.119 In that case, I pronounce you Lucky k for free. 383 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:56.359 At Lucky landslots dot com. Daily bonuses are waiting. No 384 00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:58.960 purchase necessary board. We're prohibited by low eight team plus 385 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:01.440 terms and conditions of plas I see website for details. 386 00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:05.160 A beautiful woman, very very attractive woman. How did he 387 00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:08.000 really look he's a very serious businessman. How did he 388 00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:12.720 look at relationships? And how did he look at marriage? 389 00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:18.680 I mean to Lance, everything I think was you know 390 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:26.279 a stage, you know, like really for show. And Janine 391 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:31.960 was a trophy. You know. She is from Kansas City, 392 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:37.039 from a really sort of what would you say, you know, 393 00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:40.720 good solid middle class family. She had moved to New 394 00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:44.920 York to be you know, to to to dance, and 395 00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:49.200 then she wound up as a corporate like for corporate 396 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:53.720 flight attendant, so you know, private planes for some of 397 00:24:53.799 --> 00:25:00.440 the large large corporations based out of New York. And 398 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:07.920 and so when she happened to be in Rio, he 399 00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:12.079 was visiting, and that's where they met, you know, and 400 00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:15.880 so I think that to him, she was just kind 401 00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:21.200