1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,679 Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting, producer, 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,839 and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my 4 00:00:12,919 --> 00:00:15,800 experience as the brother of a murder victim to help 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,600 other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book 6 00:00:18,679 --> 00:00:21,440 on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders, and I'm the co 7 00:00:21,519 --> 00:00:24,760 administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 8 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:25,519 Kristin Dilly. 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:27,359 Speaker 3: My name is Kristin Dilly. 10 00:00:27,519 --> 00:00:31,199 Speaker 4: I'm a writer, a researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, 11 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:34,719 as well as the social media manager and co administrator 12 00:00:34,799 --> 00:00:37,799 for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:38,560 in crime. 14 00:00:38,359 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 3: Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Over Murderer. I'm Kristin Dilly. 15 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 2: I'm Bill Thomas. 16 00:00:45,079 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 3: How are you doing there this evening, mister Thomas. It's 17 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:49,240 been a hot minute since we've talked. 18 00:00:49,719 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 2: I'm doing great, just back from a memorial service in Annapolis, Maryland, 19 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,119 and you're just back from an excursion. You sound very 20 00:00:58,200 --> 00:00:59,880 cheaper for someone who's been on the road this. 21 00:00:59,799 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 3: Week, because I'm very tired and I'm making the best 22 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,519 of it. Yeah, I was just In. I was given 23 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,239 the amazing opportunity to be a guest at a VDOC 24 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:16,079 Society meeting courtesy of our friend Agent Fitzgerald. So thank 25 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:17,959 you very much to fits for that. That was a 26 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,959 wonderful opportunity. So I got to go up and be 27 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,319 a guest at the VDOCK Society luncheon. I'm not allowed 28 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:25,799 to discuss anything else about it. I went and it 29 00:01:25,879 --> 00:01:26,959 was wonderful. 30 00:01:26,719 --> 00:01:29,519 Speaker 2: For the benefit of our listeners. Why don't you recap 31 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,079 what the VIDOC Society is all about. 32 00:01:32,519 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 3: So the vdoc Society is as a private club slash 33 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,920 think tank, and it is comprised of members of law enforcement, 34 00:01:42,359 --> 00:01:48,239 FBI profilers, forensics people, and they function as a think 35 00:01:48,319 --> 00:01:52,560 tank for law enforcement agencies who wish to bring a 36 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,680 cold case in front of them. So the way that 37 00:01:55,719 --> 00:01:58,959 a VDOC Society meeting works is you show up and 38 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,879 you have lunch and you socialize, and after the salad 39 00:02:02,959 --> 00:02:06,480 and the main course, someone from the law enforcement agency 40 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,360 that is presenting a case that day, we'll get up 41 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,759 and they will present the whole entire case to the 42 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,520 whole entire room. I felt like it's as close as 43 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,280 I'm ever going to get to sitting in on a 44 00:02:18,319 --> 00:02:22,400 session at the BAU. It was amazing being surrounded by 45 00:02:22,439 --> 00:02:26,840 all of these people lending their considerable intellect to this 46 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,319 case that is being put forth, and they asked questions 47 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,360 and offer suggestions, and it was amazing to watch this 48 00:02:35,759 --> 00:02:39,680 totally bad ass group of intellectuals do their job. It 49 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,240 was so cool. I had an amazing time, and I'm 50 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:43,879 so excited that I got to do it. And I'm 51 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,840 so thrilled that Agent Fitzgerald gave me the chance to 52 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,319 do that. That was wonderful and it did cost a 53 00:02:50,479 --> 00:02:55,800 pretty big dent in my teaching schedule. I now have 54 00:02:56,039 --> 00:02:59,000 literally a foot high stack of papers that I need 55 00:02:59,039 --> 00:03:01,319 to grade from when I I was gone for three days. 56 00:03:01,759 --> 00:03:03,840 But I wouldn't trade that for anything. It was a 57 00:03:03,879 --> 00:03:05,639 great experience. I'm so excited. 58 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,439 Speaker 2: Some years back, the Colonial Parkway murders families had asked 59 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,120 that our case be presented to the VIDOC Society because 60 00:03:14,159 --> 00:03:18,360 they often present open cases that might benefit from this 61 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:23,800 high level discussion. Unfortunately, the only time cases are presented 62 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,759 to the VIDOK Society, which meets once a month in Philadelphia, 63 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:33,319 is when the law enforcement agency agrees to present their case. 64 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,960 FBI Norfolk turned us down. We were really disappointed because 65 00:03:38,039 --> 00:03:41,719 VIDOC was very interested in discussing the Colonial Parkway murders. 66 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,199 This has got to be in like twenty ten, twenty eleven, 67 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,800 somewhere in that timeframe. It's always held a tremendous amount 68 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,960 of interest for me personally, and I'm thrilled that you 69 00:03:52,039 --> 00:03:53,719 were able to go and it really sounds like an 70 00:03:53,719 --> 00:03:56,039 amazing discussion and experience. 71 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 3: It was. I am still pinching myself that I actually 72 00:04:00,039 --> 00:04:02,560 got to go and do it, and here's hoping that 73 00:04:02,639 --> 00:04:05,479 I might get a chance to guess again at some point. 74 00:04:05,599 --> 00:04:08,960 But it's wonderful. And I didn't realize that they had merch, 75 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,240 but they do have merch, and so I was able 76 00:04:11,319 --> 00:04:15,479 to get a v DOC Society Runners tech jacket so 77 00:04:15,759 --> 00:04:18,519 I have a warm up for when I go running 78 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,600 or walking, and it's got a nice little feed Doock 79 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,680 Society patch on it, which is pretty cool. 80 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 2: And some of the investigators we know and forensics experts, 81 00:04:27,639 --> 00:04:32,160 Behavioral Analysis Unit veterans are members of the doc. They're 82 00:04:32,199 --> 00:04:36,360 not all there each month, because what's the requirement. You 83 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,199 have to go at least twice a year at least Wassier. 84 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, and these are busy people, so I imagine they wouldn't 85 00:04:42,199 --> 00:04:45,000 be able to make it every single month. There is 86 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,319 some high powered intellect in that room and it was 87 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,439 astounding sitting in the middle of it and watching these 88 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,639 people go to work. It was very cool. 89 00:04:55,199 --> 00:04:57,079 Speaker 2: Welcome back, Thank you. 90 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:02,079 Speaker 3: We did just celebrate and aniversary here that I think 91 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,399 needs to be acknowledged. Bill, we just passed the thirty 92 00:05:05,439 --> 00:05:10,079 eighth anniversary of Kathy's case. Anything that you'd like to 93 00:05:10,399 --> 00:05:13,040 remark on that occasion now. 94 00:05:13,199 --> 00:05:17,399 Speaker 2: Just that we are hopeful. We understand there have been 95 00:05:17,439 --> 00:05:21,040 some developments in the Colonial Parkway murders case. We hope 96 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,000 that they will lead to further clarity on what has 97 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,879 happened with our case. Of course, back in January, we 98 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,319 had the very exciting news that the Robin Edwards and 99 00:05:32,439 --> 00:05:36,439 David Knobling incident in the Colonial Parkway murders had been solved, 100 00:05:36,519 --> 00:05:40,720 with the identification of Alan Wade Wilmer Senior as the offender, 101 00:05:40,759 --> 00:05:45,000 and of course that tied into Teresa spaw Howell, a 102 00:05:45,079 --> 00:05:48,439 nineteen eighty nine victim, and a case that was being 103 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:53,160 handled by the Hampton Police Department. So we're hopeful that 104 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,519 we'll see some additional forward movement the thirtieth anniversary. It's 105 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,240 always hard. It just hits me when we get to 106 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,800 be heading into October that here it comes again. I 107 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,800 know all the families probably have similar reaction as the 108 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,519 years pass and we continue to look for. 109 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:15,959 Speaker 3: Answers before we get into our case. Today, we just 110 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,600 wanted to tee up a couple of upcoming events here. 111 00:06:20,399 --> 00:06:24,759 We have some excellent episodes coming up. We are again 112 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,959 having Catherine Ramslin join us to talk about her career 113 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,680 both as a forensic psychologist and also as a writer 114 00:06:32,959 --> 00:06:36,120 and a creative person and how that job that she 115 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,160 does has shaped her artistic life. So we're looking forward 116 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,240 to that. We're also going to have back on Matt Murphy, 117 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,519 prosecutor and all around amazing person, who is going to 118 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,199 offer us some further insight and discussion on the Menendez 119 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,800 brothers and their potential resentencing which was just announced earlier 120 00:06:55,879 --> 00:06:58,120 this week. We also want to make sure that you 121 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,480 guys are aware we do have another upcoming live event 122 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,600 that is going to be in January at the Montclair 123 00:07:07,959 --> 00:07:11,399 Public Library, which is up in northern Virginia. They are 124 00:07:11,439 --> 00:07:16,759 holding a fantastic little mini crime con where we will 125 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:22,079 be speaking and doing a live podcast right alongside our 126 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,920 friend and guest, Bruce Goldfarb, author of eighteen Tiny Deaths 127 00:07:26,199 --> 00:07:30,439 and friend of the podcast and many time guest Mark Olshaker, 128 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,560 the author along with John Douglas of the mind Hunter series. 129 00:07:35,279 --> 00:07:39,319 So we will be putting more information about that event 130 00:07:39,519 --> 00:07:42,279 on our social media pages fairly soon so that you 131 00:07:42,279 --> 00:07:45,120 can start getting your plans together. But we would love 132 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,199 to see all of you who are able to make 133 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,959 it come over to Northern Virginia middle of January and 134 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,199 we will be there along with Mark Olshaker, Bruce Goldfarb, 135 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:56,759 various other members of the law enforcement and true crime 136 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,560 community at the Montclair Public Library. And we are very 137 00:07:59,639 --> 00:08:00,720 much like looking forward to it. 138 00:08:01,079 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're looking forward to it. We have had a 139 00:08:03,079 --> 00:08:06,519 number of requests and this is actually something that we'd appreciate. 140 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,199 We'll put this information up on our social media pages 141 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,959 of course, mind Over Murder and Colonial Parkway Murders. We're 142 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,079 also very curious. We had done two live podcast events 143 00:08:19,079 --> 00:08:22,879 in April and May in Yorktown at the Beautiful Library 144 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,600 There a number of people asked if we had planned 145 00:08:25,639 --> 00:08:27,959 to do more of these. Now we've got the Montclair 146 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,080 event coming up, we'll ask the question on our social 147 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,960 media pages, would you like to see more events of 148 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:39,200 this type? There did seem to be a lot of interest. Now, 149 00:08:39,279 --> 00:08:42,879 in a perfect world, we would do this after we 150 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:46,720 had more updates in the Colonial Parkway murders, so fingers 151 00:08:46,759 --> 00:08:48,240 crossed on that front as well. 152 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,399 Speaker 3: Absolutely, we decided to do something that Bill and I 153 00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:54,759 have been kicking around as an idea for about as 154 00:08:54,759 --> 00:08:57,679 long as we've had the podcast. We're about to turn 155 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,279 five years old in January, folks, and that means we 156 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:07,799 are a particularly well established, may I even say venerable podcast? 157 00:09:08,519 --> 00:09:11,279 Speaker 2: I don't feel old enough to be venerable. 158 00:09:12,879 --> 00:09:15,759 Speaker 3: And looking back on it now, we realize that some 159 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:20,559 of our early efforts, while very well intentioned, were maybe 160 00:09:20,639 --> 00:09:24,159 not the best sounding efforts that we could ever have 161 00:09:24,279 --> 00:09:27,159 put across into the universe. Would you agree with that, 162 00:09:27,279 --> 00:09:28,519 mister Thomas. 163 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,639 Speaker 2: I shake my head. I think even at the beginning, 164 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,600 when we started this podcast almost five years ago, I 165 00:09:35,639 --> 00:09:37,960 don't think that's our best work. But I don't think 166 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:39,000 they're horrible. 167 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 3: No, I don't think they are either. But I would 168 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,080 definitely like I redo on some of these so that 169 00:09:45,159 --> 00:09:48,399 I don't sound nearly as nervous and stumbley, because I 170 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,279 know I did for the first couple of episodes. 171 00:09:51,879 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 2: Actually, some people say in the podcasting world that you 172 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,600 should record your first couple of episodes and then scrap 173 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,039 them and only launch episodes once you've done a few. 174 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,480 We did not necessarily follow that advice, although for those 175 00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:12,440 people who are particularly detail oriented, a few people have 176 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,519 noticed that we actually are missing the first two episodes 177 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,639 of Mind Over Murder. When you go back into the 178 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,960 catalog or whatever you would call this. 179 00:10:21,879 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 3: Thing, it is the catalog at this point, because there's 180 00:10:24,879 --> 00:10:25,480 a lot of it. 181 00:10:26,159 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 2: So among the earliest episodes we did was some coverage 182 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:36,120 of the so called Child's Metzler murder case from two 183 00:10:36,159 --> 00:10:39,799 thousand and nine. We thought we might revisit that case, 184 00:10:40,039 --> 00:10:43,200 particularly since we're continuing to hope that there will be 185 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,399 some developments in that case as well. 186 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 3: We'll call this Child's Metzler two point zero or Caldwell 187 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,480 Fields the reboot, or whatever you would want to call it, 188 00:10:53,919 --> 00:10:57,000 but we wanted to go ahead and give this case 189 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:02,559 it's due now that you have two more experienced voices 190 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,120 who are able to present the information to you in 191 00:11:06,159 --> 00:11:10,639 a more nuanced and thoughtful way. Is that a pretty 192 00:11:10,639 --> 00:11:11,440 fair way to put it. 193 00:11:11,639 --> 00:11:15,159 Speaker 2: I'm feeling creakier by the minute. Here, let's talk about 194 00:11:15,279 --> 00:11:16,360 Child's Metzler. 195 00:11:17,879 --> 00:11:21,799 Speaker 3: The Child's Metzler case refers to eighteen year old Heidi 196 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:26,000 Lynn Childs and her longtime boyfriend, nineteen year old David 197 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:31,120 Lee Metzler. Both of them were sophomores at Virginia Tech which, 198 00:11:31,159 --> 00:11:36,919 for anybody outside of Virginia, that is Virginia Polytechnic Institute 199 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,440 in Beautiful Blacksburg, Virginia. Heidi and David were high school 200 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,919 sweethearts who had been dating for four years up to 201 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,879 that point. I think the expectation there was probably going 202 00:11:49,919 --> 00:11:54,879 to be marriage, especially in light of later events. They 203 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,039 are an absolutely adorable couple. If you look for pictures 204 00:11:58,080 --> 00:11:59,759 of the two of them, they are about as all 205 00:11:59,759 --> 00:12:04,960 American as you could possibly want. She's beautiful, he is handsome. 206 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,039 They very clearly were crazy about each other, and it 207 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,519 really brings the tragedy home once you put faces to 208 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,080 the two of them. But they had been dating for 209 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:20,440 four years, and unfortunately they were found shot to death 210 00:12:20,759 --> 00:12:24,039 on August twenty six, two thousand and nine, in the 211 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:29,200 Caldwell Fields area of the Jefferson National Forest that is 212 00:12:29,279 --> 00:12:33,799 a wilderness area that is twelve to fifteen miles away 213 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,799 from the Virginia Tech campus. A little bit of background 214 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:43,039 here on each of the victims. Heidi was a biochem 215 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,440 major who was in the process of switching over to 216 00:12:46,519 --> 00:12:50,799 pre med. Obviously very brainy. She was the fourth of 217 00:12:50,879 --> 00:12:54,360 eight kids in her family. Her father, Don Childs, was 218 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,559 a helicopter pilot for the Virginia State Police. 219 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,919 Speaker 2: Now we've never met Don Childs or any of the 220 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,399 members of these two families, but we've heard reference to 221 00:13:05,879 --> 00:13:09,679 him as a Virginia State Police helicopter pilot a number 222 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,320 of times. Because people that we know from the Colonial 223 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,039 Parkway murders in the Virginia State Police side of our 224 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:20,759 case know Don and his family very well. And I 225 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,840 know this case is a very frustrating one for the 226 00:13:24,879 --> 00:13:28,440 members of the law enforcement community because they feel like 227 00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:31,679 all this time has gone by fifteen years and they 228 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,440 still don't have answers in this case. And I think 229 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,360 they really feel like this is two of their own. 230 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. David Metzler was an industrial systems engineering major, 231 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:48,000 youngest of four children. His father was a doctor from Lynchburg, 232 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,960 which is a town in the middle of the state, 233 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:57,080 about ninety four miles away from Blacksburg. So Heidi and 234 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:02,320 David often played guitar together at services at the Heritage 235 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,080 Baptist Church, and so they had gone to the Caldweld 236 00:14:06,159 --> 00:14:11,360 Fields area to practice guitar. After leaving Heidi's apartment on 237 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,639 the evening of August twenty sixth, around eight twenty five pm, 238 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:21,120 they were traveling in David's nineteen ninety two Toyota. Within 239 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,240 about two hours of their arrival at the Calwell Fields 240 00:14:25,559 --> 00:14:29,759 Wilderness site, they were shot to death with a Winchester 241 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:35,440 thirty thirty lever action hunting rifle, and the number of 242 00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:39,000 shots fired was not released. I could not find that 243 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:40,240 information anywhere. 244 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't call over seeing that, and you had 245 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:47,120 mentioned the range of the Winchester thirty thirty. 246 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. It's funny. My dad, my wonderful, long suffering dad, 247 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,279 does not really understand why I do what I do 248 00:14:55,639 --> 00:14:59,320 here with podcasting and crime. It's a little confounding to him. 249 00:14:59,639 --> 00:15:02,639 But when I was taking notes for this episode, I 250 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,799 called him up and I said, hey, Dad, I have 251 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,240 a question about a gun, and he goes, I can 252 00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:11,840 answer a question about a gun I was like, oh, bingo, here, 253 00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:14,200 here's something we can talk about. So I asked him, 254 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,720 I said, can you tell me what is it? A 255 00:15:16,799 --> 00:15:20,080 thirty thirty hunting rifle? And he just went on a 256 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,519 spiel about it, told me everything he knew about hunting rifles. 257 00:15:23,559 --> 00:15:25,799 And I'm starting to get a pretty good lecture going. 258 00:15:25,799 --> 00:15:27,600 And I said, okay. Because I knew my dad was 259 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,399 a hunter, he grew up in that area, I said, 260 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,320 can you tell me a little bit about the range? 261 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,799 According to my dad, shout out to Randall Dilly, who 262 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,440 will never listen to this podcast. But I do know 263 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,919 that he has friends who listened to it. Maybe they'll 264 00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:42,480 tell him I shouted him out on the podcast. According 265 00:15:42,559 --> 00:15:46,320 to my dad, a Winchester thirty thirty lever action hunting 266 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:51,399 rifle would be good for short range distances of less 267 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,559 than one hundred yards. He said, probably thirty to fifty yards. 268 00:15:55,919 --> 00:15:59,039 And that's because he is hunted with a Winchester thirty 269 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,159 thirty lever action hunting rifle before. 270 00:16:01,679 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 2: I've actually shot a Winchester thirty thirty as well in 271 00:16:05,279 --> 00:16:07,919 target practice when I was a boy scout, which is 272 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,679 quite a long time ago. This is not a gun 273 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,720 that you would fire from hundreds of yards away. This 274 00:16:13,919 --> 00:16:16,639 is a fairly close in hunting rifle. 275 00:16:17,279 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 3: Heidi and David were found the following morning at the 276 00:16:21,679 --> 00:16:25,759 Caldwell Fields area by a man who was walking his dog. 277 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,600 Heidi was found outside of David's car, the ninety two Toyota. 278 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:36,159 David was found inside the car. We don't have any 279 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:41,279 more information on what that scene looked like other than 280 00:16:41,799 --> 00:16:45,679 the fact that authorities characterized it as a quote brutal 281 00:16:45,679 --> 00:16:49,159 and ugly double murder, which it certainly sounds like. They 282 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,000 also revealed that Heidie's purse was taken from the car, 283 00:16:53,279 --> 00:16:56,559 and they released the contents of the purse for further 284 00:16:56,679 --> 00:16:59,919 identification by anyone who may come across it. Heidie's purse 285 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:05,880 contained a silver Motoroller Rasor phone, a silver Sony Cybershot camera, 286 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:11,519 her credit card, her identification card, and a Virginia Tech lanyard. 287 00:17:11,559 --> 00:17:13,720 So I assume by ID card they mean like student 288 00:17:13,799 --> 00:17:14,519 ID card. 289 00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:19,799 Speaker 2: And will include links to photographs. The investigators at the 290 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,039 time felt that this was very important because these items 291 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:25,559 were taken in her purse and they were hoping that 292 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,079 because they were somewhat distinctive, they might have been seen 293 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,720 by someone, so admittedly fifteen years have gone by, but 294 00:17:32,799 --> 00:17:36,319 will include a link to photographs of those items as 295 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:37,680 provided by law enforcement. 296 00:17:38,279 --> 00:17:41,519 Speaker 3: We unfortunately do not have a lot of information on 297 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,440 the status of the investigation. There is not a lot 298 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,279 out there, and the course of sitting down to do 299 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,519 my case notes, I relied on the notes that I 300 00:17:51,519 --> 00:17:54,119 had taken five years ago, if you can imagine that 301 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,519 it's been that long. But I also checked out to 302 00:17:56,559 --> 00:18:00,640 see if there was new information on the of Heidi 303 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,839 and David, and really, unfortunately there does not seem to 304 00:18:03,839 --> 00:18:08,400 be any. On the tenth anniversary of their murder, which 305 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,119 was five years ago, Heidi's parents spoke to the media, 306 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,039 as did David's parents, but that's really all of the 307 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,799 discussion that has been done in the media. We'll offer 308 00:18:18,839 --> 00:18:21,119 some quotes from that in just a second, but there 309 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,920 has not been a lot released on this case. In particular, 310 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,160 we did talk a couple of years ago with a 311 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,960 local investigator by the name of Lisa Lucas Gardner, who 312 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,400 has a very vested interest in this case, and even Lisa, 313 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,799 who knew a lot about the investigation, was still not 314 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,880 able to offer a whole ton of insider information about this, 315 00:18:45,279 --> 00:18:48,240 so it sounds like the investigation has really been kept 316 00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:49,440 highly under wraps. 317 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 2: About the only thing we've heard in the last couple 318 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,200 of years was a few years ago, I would say 319 00:18:56,319 --> 00:18:59,480 two maybe three years ago. We did talk to some 320 00:18:59,559 --> 00:19:03,440 people with good knowledge of what was happening inside the investigation, 321 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,480 and they seem to indicate that the investigators feel like 322 00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:11,160 they have a good handle on who might be involved, 323 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,759 but they do not have enough to bring these people 324 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:19,400 up on charges. So suspicions remain about who might be involved. 325 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:24,599 But from a public perspective, in terms of official case announcements, 326 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,160 there hasn't been that much. 327 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 3: In twenty nineteen, ten years after the murder, a new 328 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:36,559 investigation into the case took place involving up to ten 329 00:19:36,759 --> 00:19:40,000 different law enforcement agencies, and I thought it was very 330 00:19:40,039 --> 00:19:43,759 interesting that there are this many agencies involved. So I'm 331 00:19:43,759 --> 00:19:47,079 going to list off those different agencies, and I think 332 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,880 it would be very interesting to dig into, like why 333 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,599 do we think each one's involved. So the law enforcement 334 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:57,839 agencies involved in the child's Metzler homicide are the Virginia 335 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,519 State Police, the FBI, the Montgomery County Sheriff's Office, the 336 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:07,119 US Marshals, the US Attorney General's Office, the US Forest Service, 337 00:20:07,599 --> 00:20:12,000 the Blacksburg Police, and the Virginia Tech campus police. Those 338 00:20:12,039 --> 00:20:14,880 are the various agencies that are currently involved now the 339 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,680 vsp I understand bill. Can you shed light on why 340 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,480 the FBI would be involved with this one. 341 00:20:20,759 --> 00:20:25,599 Speaker 2: I think they're probably providing an assist role with analysis 342 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:30,880 of the weapons used and the Quantico labs. There are 343 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,200 a number of different labs at the FBI headquarters. I 344 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,559 think the FBI are there in an assist role. 345 00:20:37,079 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 3: I'm noticing the US Forest Service, and I assume that 346 00:20:40,079 --> 00:20:43,640 is because the Caldwell Fields is adjacent to the Jefferson 347 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,519 National Forests. I assume that's why they are involved. 348 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,279 Speaker 2: I'm pretty certain you're right there. The National Park Service 349 00:20:50,319 --> 00:20:52,119 may be involved here too somehow. 350 00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was curious about that because I noticed they 351 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,039 weren't listed. Blacksburg Police would be involved because Blacksburg is 352 00:20:59,039 --> 00:21:01,759 where Virginia Tech is is, and the campus police would 353 00:21:01,759 --> 00:21:04,599 be involved too because David and Heidi were students at 354 00:21:04,599 --> 00:21:08,119 the time. The Montgomery County Sheriff's Office would be involved 355 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:13,240 for that same reason. So you've got campus police, city police, 356 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,000 county police, and then you've got the state and the 357 00:21:16,039 --> 00:21:19,000 federal I really am interested, though. The one thing I'm 358 00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:21,920 really having trouble with here, Bill, maybe you've got an 359 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:26,960 idea US Marshals, any idea why the US marshals would be. 360 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 2: Involved with this some of us feels like more of 361 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,720 an expression of support than anything. The other thing is, 362 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,200 I think law enforcement knows who's involved in this case, 363 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,279 and I think what they're trying to do is by 364 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,039 using all of these different agencies, everyone is trying to 365 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,000 keep their ears to the ground because the feeling is 366 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,200 that sooner or later, somebody's going to say something about 367 00:21:49,279 --> 00:21:52,039 who they think is directly involved in this case. And 368 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,960 with all those law enforcement agencies out there listening for it, 369 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,720 they're hoping that at some point they'll hear the tip 370 00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:03,359 that they need to begin to build a case against 371 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:09,400 an individual or individuals that are responsible for this double homicide. 372 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,359 You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back 373 00:22:12,599 --> 00:22:22,960 after this word from our sponsors. We're back here at 374 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:23,880 mindover Murder. 375 00:22:25,319 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 3: Now. When twenty nineteen rolled around and all of these 376 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:34,839 different agencies became again involved in the reinvestigation of this case, 377 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,440 the reward for this case, which is already a substantial 378 00:22:38,519 --> 00:22:42,519 seventy thousand dollars was raised to one hundred thousand dollars 379 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:47,039 for information leading to an arrest. At that point, we 380 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:52,359 know DNA and fingerprints were taken from area residents. As yet, 381 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,480 no information has been released on whether or not that 382 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,240 resulted in any leads in this case. 383 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,799 Speaker 2: Very strike though, because them taking DNA and fingerprints from 384 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,079 area residents indicates that they have something in terms of 385 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:12,440 evidence that they're testing against. I don't think they would 386 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,240 just go out and ask area residence for DNA and 387 00:23:16,279 --> 00:23:19,160 fingerprints for no reason at all. 388 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,839 Speaker 3: Last month, on September fourth, twenty twenty four, WDBJA seven 389 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,960 and Roanoke released a news story about the fifteenth anniversary 390 00:23:28,039 --> 00:23:31,960 of the child's Metzler murder, and the following statement was 391 00:23:32,079 --> 00:23:36,119 released as part of the story. Quote. State police say 392 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,079 they want to reassure the families and friends of Heidi 393 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,599 and David, as well as the affected communities that even 394 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,359 after fifteen years, a robust team is pursuing investigative steps 395 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,759 on a weekly, if not daily basis. That team also 396 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:57,599 is constantly evaluating new and emerging technologies to leverage scientific advances. 397 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,359 End quote. There was also a very interesting quote here 398 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,200 from Special Agent Scott Mitchell of the VSP bill would 399 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:07,440 you like to read that? 400 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,319 Speaker 2: Sure? And there's something about this that I was very 401 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,759 struck by. Special Agent Scott Mitchell. The VSP stated, quote, 402 00:24:14,759 --> 00:24:18,119 we intend to resolve this case. That means we intend 403 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:23,279 to identify and prosecute the person responsible for these brutal murders. 404 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,839 The investigative team believes there are people with relevant knowledge 405 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,680 about what happened the night David and Heidi were murdered 406 00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:33,400 and who have not yet come forward. There are relatives 407 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,599 or associates of the offender who have learned concerning things 408 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,680 in the intervening years, or have held on to secrets 409 00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:44,079 all this time. The odds are very high that the 410 00:24:44,079 --> 00:24:47,279 offender has put his family and friends, through no fault 411 00:24:47,319 --> 00:24:50,359 of their own, in the awful position of knowing things 412 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,640 about that night. We don't want those individuals to be 413 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,240 reluctant to come forward. One thing that's really striking to me, 414 00:24:58,799 --> 00:25:01,559 and I think that you as well, Kristen, is they 415 00:25:01,599 --> 00:25:06,160 talk about individuals as in people that might know someone 416 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,599 who's involved in this case, but they talk about the 417 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:15,200 offender in the singular. Our sources say that there are 418 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,079 two or more men involved in the murder of David 419 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:25,079 and Heidi. It might just be the way the language 420 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,000 came out, but I think that they believe there are 421 00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:30,480 two perpetrators here. 422 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,799 Speaker 3: That definitely tracks with some of the interviews that we 423 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,680 did five years ago when we first covered this case. 424 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,799 For anyone who feels that they may have information that 425 00:25:42,839 --> 00:25:46,480 would lead to an arrest in the murder of Heidi 426 00:25:46,599 --> 00:25:50,519 Child's and David Metzler, there is a one hundred thousand 427 00:25:50,519 --> 00:25:54,039 dollars reward, and so we'll put this number for the 428 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,119 VSP tipline up on our social media page. But for 429 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,759 anybody who's listening who suddenly we had a moment of insight, 430 00:26:02,319 --> 00:26:05,960 the VSP tip line for this case is five four 431 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,920 h three seven five nine five eight nine, and that 432 00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:13,960 is a one hundred thousand dollars reward for tips that 433 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:19,599 lead to an arrest. One of the most interesting, I 434 00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:23,480 guess we'll call it a rabbit hole that we went 435 00:26:23,559 --> 00:26:28,240 down when we were initially looking into this case is 436 00:26:28,279 --> 00:26:34,079 the fact that there were any number of connections to 437 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,960 other cases in that area. We're not necessarily saying that 438 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,480 those connections mean the two cases were perpetrated by the 439 00:26:43,519 --> 00:26:48,200 same person. It just means that there have been, over 440 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,759 the last couple of years, some of heinous and high 441 00:26:51,799 --> 00:26:56,119 profile crimes to happen in the Blacksburg area, and we 442 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,319 found it interesting that some of the areas where those 443 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:05,039 crimes occurred intersected with places where other of those crimes occurred. 444 00:27:05,759 --> 00:27:08,440 One of the things that I found myself doing as 445 00:27:08,519 --> 00:27:12,359 I was making notes on this is building a section 446 00:27:12,519 --> 00:27:17,119 called other case connections, and I started writing down this 447 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,920 case maybe connected to this other case in some other way. 448 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,240 So they're just a couple of interesting little rabbit holes, 449 00:27:25,279 --> 00:27:26,880 I guess, really is the best way to put it. 450 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,200 And I'll go through them here fairly quickly. Heidi and 451 00:27:31,279 --> 00:27:34,519 David were killed in August of two thousand and nine. 452 00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:37,599 Two months later, in October of two thousand and nine, 453 00:27:38,039 --> 00:27:42,480 Virginia Tech's student Morgan Harrington was murdered by serial killer 454 00:27:42,599 --> 00:27:46,640 Jesse Matthew in Charlottesville after attending a concert at the 455 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:53,119 John Paul Jones Arena. There was speculation online after the fact, 456 00:27:53,559 --> 00:27:57,319 and before it was understood that Jesse Matthew was the 457 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,359 killer of Morgan Harrington, that maybe the Heidi and David's 458 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,200 murders were linked in some way to Morgan Harrington's and 459 00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:10,160 vice versa. Obviously, now we know Jesse Matthew was the 460 00:28:10,279 --> 00:28:14,799 killer of Morgan Harrington and Hannah Graham, and very likely 461 00:28:14,839 --> 00:28:18,880 there is no connection to Heidi and David. However, the 462 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,400 speculation that came about online after the fact was particularly 463 00:28:23,519 --> 00:28:24,680 interesting and noteworthy. 464 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,079 Speaker 2: I think that just seems like one of those things 465 00:28:28,079 --> 00:28:33,319 where there's just this odd confluence of events. What's very striking, though, 466 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,079 is as you continue through the list, there are a 467 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,039 number of other murders, some of them received a tremendous 468 00:28:40,079 --> 00:28:43,519 amount of national publicity, and seeing them all listed together, 469 00:28:43,599 --> 00:28:47,759 it's actually quite shocking how many different murders and large 470 00:28:47,799 --> 00:28:52,000 scale massacres have occurred that have a direct connection to 471 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:52,960 Virginia Tech. 472 00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:57,599 Speaker 3: I'll go down those and then we'll link that into 473 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,279 areas that are very near to the call Well Fields. 474 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,559 It's probably been a little too flip of me to 475 00:29:04,759 --> 00:29:07,160 call this. I've been calling it in my notes the 476 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,119 Virginia Tech crime spree, and that's not really accurate one 477 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,720 hundred percent, but it is certainly telling that the campus 478 00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:20,319 of Virginia Tech is a commonality in all of these cases. 479 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,920 Either a student who attended there or someone who was 480 00:29:25,039 --> 00:29:28,240 in the vicinity of the Tech campus. I'm just going 481 00:29:28,319 --> 00:29:32,960 to run through very quickly those crimes, some of them 482 00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:36,880 very noteworthy that you noted here, and we'll talk about 483 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,279 how those may or may not be related to Heidi 484 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,759 Child's and David Metzler. The Virginia Tech crime spree, as 485 00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:45,400 I call it, really starts in April sixteenth of two 486 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,440 thousand and seven with the terribly tragic Virginia Tech massacre, 487 00:29:49,799 --> 00:29:53,799 which was perpetrated by Sun Qui Cho thirty three, who 488 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,880 just went on a mass shooting spree that ended with 489 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,559 thirty two people dead in seventeen injured on the campus 490 00:30:01,559 --> 00:30:04,359 of Virginia Tech. I still remember where I was that day. 491 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,319 That is another one of those things. It's a hallmark 492 00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:09,640 in my life. I remember where I was. I don't 493 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,200 know if you recall where you were a bill, do 494 00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:12,559 you happen to remember? No. 495 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,279 Speaker 2: I remember that day very well, but I don't remember 496 00:30:15,319 --> 00:30:18,759 exactly where I was. It was such a shocking crime, 497 00:30:19,359 --> 00:30:24,200 and usually college campuses are I think of as relatively 498 00:30:24,319 --> 00:30:29,880 safe places. This was just such a shocking event, and 499 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,599 I don't know that i'd even heard of Virginia Tech 500 00:30:32,759 --> 00:30:37,200 before this terrible mass killing, which saddens me because I 501 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,599 think that was for a lot of people their introduction 502 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,480 to the Virginia Tech community. 503 00:30:42,079 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 3: And this is actually, I think one of the first 504 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,200 mass shootings that I can recall that happened in someplace 505 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,720 other than high school. By two thousand and seven, we 506 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,720 were used to hearing about high school shootings, but this 507 00:30:51,799 --> 00:30:53,880 is the first one I remember hearing about that took 508 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,599 place at a college. Two years after that, January twenty first, 509 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,240 two thousand and nine, there was a grizzy and awful 510 00:31:01,759 --> 00:31:05,440 stabbing into capitation of a graduate student by the name 511 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,839 of Xinyang by a fellow student, Hayang Zhao in a 512 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,759 campus eatery. This absolutely blew my mind when I came 513 00:31:13,799 --> 00:31:16,480 across it in my research, because I somehow had not 514 00:31:16,599 --> 00:31:18,799 heard about it. And this is the sort of thing 515 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,440 that you think would have made the national news, but 516 00:31:21,599 --> 00:31:24,160 I had not heard of it. Bill, do you remember 517 00:31:24,319 --> 00:31:25,839 had you heard about this at all? 518 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 2: I had For some reason, this one had stuck in 519 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,759 my mind. It's just a horrible case. 520 00:31:32,599 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 3: So this we've named him once. I don't want to 521 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,440 name him again. I'm just going to call him the offender. 522 00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:41,119 The offender stated that he was in love with the victim, 523 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,519 but she ultimately rejected him because she had a boyfriend 524 00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:47,920 and told him that she had plans to marry her boyfriend. 525 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,920 The offender then followed the victim to a campus restaurant 526 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,920 and stabbed her in front of other people with an 527 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,839 eight inch butcher knife. She fought back, which resulted in 528 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,880 multiple defensive wounds on her hands and arms before she 529 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,319 fell to the ground, at which point the offender decapitated 530 00:32:08,319 --> 00:32:09,559 her in front of witnesses. 531 00:32:10,119 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 2: We were talking about this a little bit offline, and 532 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,680 I was wondering how it was that people weren't able 533 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,720 to stop him. As I recall, I think this happened 534 00:32:18,839 --> 00:32:23,319 fairly quickly, and people were afraid for their own lives 535 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,440 as this man attacked his victim. It's just one of 536 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:32,240 these situations that just seem so senseless. It transpired quickly, 537 00:32:32,319 --> 00:32:34,799 and before they knew it, she was dead on the 538 00:32:34,839 --> 00:32:39,119 floor of the restaurant. He is now currently incarcerated for 539 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:40,000 his offenses. 540 00:32:40,599 --> 00:32:43,839 Speaker 3: Eight months after that, August twenty six, two thousand and nine, 541 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,839 Heidi and David were murdered out at the Caldwell Fields. 542 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,079 Two months later, Morgan Harrington was murdered by Jesse Matthew. 543 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,119 At the time, people positive that the murder of Morgan 544 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,440 Harrington might be related to the murders of Heidi and David. 545 00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:01,480 We now know, of course, that is not accurate, but 546 00:33:01,839 --> 00:33:04,200 obviously I can see why the speculation would have been there. 547 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,160 Two years later, December seventh, twenty eleven, Ross Truett Ashley, 548 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,880 aged twenty two, murdered Virginia Tech police officer Derrick Krause, 549 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,680 aged thirty nine, before also killing himself. Ross treat Ashley 550 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,160 was a part time student at Radford University, which is 551 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,000 about fifteen miles southwest of Blacksburg. He had hijacked a 552 00:33:25,079 --> 00:33:29,279 white twenty eleven Mercedes SUV at gunpoint from a Radford 553 00:33:29,359 --> 00:33:33,079 real estate office the day before, and when the call 554 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:38,240 came in, Officer Krause went to examine that suv and 555 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,279 Ross Treutt Ashley killed him in cold blood. 556 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,079 Speaker 2: I remember this case as well. Of course, we were 557 00:33:44,119 --> 00:33:47,200 following what was going on at Virginia Tech and in 558 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,960 that community pretty closely by that point. 559 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,279 Speaker 3: Finally, five years later, January twenty second of twenty sixteen, 560 00:33:54,759 --> 00:33:59,000 was the absolutely horrifying murder of thirteen year old Nicole Lovel. 561 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,599 She was lured out of her home by two Virginia 562 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,920 Tech students, David Eisenhower and Natalie Keepers, and was then 563 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,360 brutally murdered, and both of them are currently facing life 564 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,639 in prison for this absolutely heinous crime. We did cover 565 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,360 Nicole's murder at some length on I believe it was 566 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,360 episode three of the podcast, and that one is still up, 567 00:34:22,519 --> 00:34:25,320 so if you want to listen to that one. We 568 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,679 sounded better by that. We sounded like we knew what 569 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,559 we were doing, so we kept that one up. We 570 00:34:30,599 --> 00:34:33,280 decided not to reboot Nicole level, but we wanted to 571 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:34,719 give Heidi and David a reboot. 572 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 2: Here a couple of other things about the child's Messler case. 573 00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,119 One thing that's been mentioned to us is there was 574 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:48,760 a shooting range near Caldwell Fields, which was quite popular. 575 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,199 They're actually, I believe our two shooting range is one 576 00:34:53,800 --> 00:35:00,199 properly licensed and one probably much more casual. There was 577 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,599 a strong possibility that the shooter or shooters may have 578 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:10,360 passed by Caldwell Fields while coming back from the shooting range. 579 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,599 One of the things that was mentioned regarding David Metzler 580 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,360 is they thought that he had been shot through an 581 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,400 open window of his Toyota, and that, of course a 582 00:35:20,519 --> 00:35:24,679 rifle was used. There was also brass collected. If I'm 583 00:35:24,679 --> 00:35:30,840 not mistaken, they were attempting to extract DNA from some 584 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,280 of the cartridges that were found there. I'm very curious 585 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,519 as to whether any of that evidence led to DNA 586 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,519 being available that might eventually tie back into a suspect. 587 00:35:44,199 --> 00:35:48,639 Speaker 3: That's an excellent question. That same firing range is one 588 00:35:48,639 --> 00:35:51,960 that was known to be used by san Quicho, the 589 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,880 Virginia Tech massacar Rushwood Ashley, who murdered Tech police officer 590 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:02,679 Derrek Krause, and the firing range was also very near 591 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,000 the home on Craig Creek Road of thirteen year old 592 00:36:07,039 --> 00:36:10,199 Nicole Lovell, who was lured out of her home by 593 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,760 Tech freshman David Eisenhower and Natalie Keepers and later stabbed 594 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,880 to death by the two of them. So an interesting 595 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,039 grizzly nexus at the center of all of these terrible 596 00:36:22,119 --> 00:36:26,519 crimes seems to be this firing range. Very sad and 597 00:36:26,639 --> 00:36:30,719 awful history in that area. As I was preparing some 598 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,519 additional notes for this episode, the teacher across the hall 599 00:36:34,559 --> 00:36:39,800 from me is absolutely splendid. Year teacher who had graduated 600 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,199 from Virginia Tech just a couple of years ago, and 601 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,679 so I asked her. I said, hey, I was naming 602 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,440 these cases. I was like, are you familiar with all 603 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,159 of them? She's, oh, my gosh, yeah. She was like, 604 00:36:49,199 --> 00:36:52,280 it's really it's really odd, all of these different things 605 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,760 that happened in and around the campus. And I actually 606 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,840 asked her, like, how do they memorialize these things on 607 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,440 the campus? And so she was writing down a list 608 00:37:00,559 --> 00:37:04,440 of ways that the campus keeps the memory of the 609 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,800 shooting victims alive. And they're very careful to honor and 610 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,639 acknowledge that, yes, horrible things have happened here, but we 611 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,400 acknowledge it, and we hold the people still in the 612 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,800 lighting close to our hearts, which I thought was very nice. 613 00:37:16,519 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 2: I still don't know if I understand what a hokey is. 614 00:37:20,199 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 3: It's a male turkey. Okay, it's yeah, it's if you 615 00:37:24,039 --> 00:37:25,920 look at the if you look up I know you've 616 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,920 got your computer up. You should look up the Virginia 617 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,599 Tech mascot. It's a hockey bird. It's a male turkey. 618 00:37:31,199 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 2: I learned something today. 619 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, my dad is a Virginia Tech. My dad's a 620 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,920 Virginia Tech alum, and he'll wander around on game days 621 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,880 wearing his hoky sweatshirt and singing the song Hokey Hokey High. 622 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,599 Speaker 2: That's that I'd like to hear. 623 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I'm sure you would like I said, though 624 00:37:51,679 --> 00:37:55,400 my dad never listens to this podcast. Doubt you're ever 625 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,039 going to get the opportunity. But yeah, dad is a 626 00:37:58,119 --> 00:38:00,800 Virginia Tech alum, and this is a school after his 627 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,760 own heart. I have a couple of students who are 628 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,119 attending right now, and I have another couple of students 629 00:38:05,159 --> 00:38:06,280 who are playing there. 630 00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 2: And i'd appreciate it if any of your dad's friends 631 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,559 could mention that we said really nice things about them 632 00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:12,320 on the podcast. 633 00:38:13,159 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, he knows. He knows. We we do good 634 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,039 work and we're out there trying to make the world 635 00:38:18,119 --> 00:38:19,199 safe in a better place. 636 00:38:19,639 --> 00:38:24,760 Speaker 2: We would dearly love to see the child's Mepsler case solved. 637 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,360 If you do have any information. There's no time like 638 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,639 the present. If one hundred thousand dollars reward isn't enough, 639 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,000 I just think the community would love to see Heidi 640 00:38:37,079 --> 00:38:39,440 and David murderer brought to justice. 641 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 3: Amen to that. So, the vsp tipline for this case 642 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:48,480 again is five four three seven, five nine, five eight nine. 643 00:38:48,599 --> 00:38:51,599 We'll put a link to that in our show notes. 644 00:38:51,639 --> 00:38:55,119 We'll also put some information up on Heidi and David, 645 00:38:55,199 --> 00:38:59,400 including some photos. And I had alluded earlier to the 646 00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:03,800 fact that it seemed like after a four year relationship, 647 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,239 there was probably going to be the expectation that they 648 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,000 were going to eventually get married. After Heidi and David 649 00:39:11,039 --> 00:39:14,079 were murdered, they were buried side by side next to 650 00:39:14,159 --> 00:39:18,079 each other in a family plot, and they have a 651 00:39:18,119 --> 00:39:21,880 Virginia Tech flag looking over them to this day. That 652 00:39:22,039 --> 00:39:24,360 is going to do it for this episode of mind 653 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,039 Over Murder. Thank you all for listening to our reboot 654 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,639 of episode one of mind Over Murder, the Heidi Childs 655 00:39:31,639 --> 00:39:35,440 and David Metzler murders. If you do have any information 656 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,079 about that case, please do reach out and please stay 657 00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:42,000 tuned for all of our upcoming live events in January, 658 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,400 our excellent new episodes that are dropping, and hopefully we'll 659 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,920 have some more information on the Colonial Parkway murders case 660 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,559 in the next couple of weeks. That is going to 661 00:39:52,559 --> 00:39:54,639 do it for this episode of mind Over Murder. Thank 662 00:39:54,679 --> 00:39:56,880 you so much for listening. We'll see you next time. 663 00:40:06,159 --> 00:40:09,639 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and 664 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,199 Another Dog Productions. 665 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,079 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 666 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. 667 00:40:18,519 --> 00:40:20,559 Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud. 668 00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. 669 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 2: You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. 670 00:40:29,159 --> 00:40:32,599 Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway Murders. 671 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,760 Speaker 2: On Facebook, and finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on 672 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,079 Twitter at Bill Thomas five six. 673 00:40:38,559 --> 00:40:41,639 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.