WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.399 --> 00:00:08.240 Special Operations, cobert O. 2 00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:11.000 Spionage. 3 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:18.760 The Team House with your hosts Jack Murphy and David Park. 4 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:24.800 Hi folks, I'm Jack Murphy. 5 00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:27.839 This is The Team House episode three hundred and forty eight, 6 00:00:28.199 --> 00:00:31.320 and our guest on tonight's show is Mark Dereen. He 7 00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:36.000 served in the Australian military, including the Australian Special Air Service, 8 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:40.240 multiple deployments to Afghanistan and a couple other places. 9 00:00:41.240 --> 00:00:42.240 A lot to talk. 10 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:45.640 About here actually, from his time in the conventional infantry 11 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:49.039 all the way to today where he is a expedition 12 00:00:49.159 --> 00:00:50.679 and adventure travel guide. 13 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:53.240 So Mark, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us. 14 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:56.840 Yeah, thanks for having me. It's a huge honor and pleasure. 15 00:00:56.880 --> 00:00:59.479 You've had some phenomenal guests on this podcast. 16 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:03.359 But I don't think we have had a Australian SAS 17 00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:05.719 guy on the show unfortunately until now. 18 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:07.439 So I'm glad we can make. 19 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:09.079 Up for that, jeez. 20 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:13.120 So Mark, tell us a little bit about you know, 21 00:01:13.159 --> 00:01:15.519 your upbringing and how you grew up and sort of 22 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:18.079 how that eventually took you towards military service. 23 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:19.799 Yeah. 24 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:23.959 I grew up in Tasmania, the little island right down 25 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:26.959 the bottom of Australia and I've moved back to live 26 00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:27.640 here now, but. 27 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:30.920 Yeah, Tassy was a pretty. 28 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:36.040 Small place growing up here in the eighties, and I 29 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:38.079 didn't leave. Dad was a trap driver and sort of 30 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:43.599 Mum worked night shifts stacking supermarket shelves, and we didn't. 31 00:01:43.640 --> 00:01:46.719 I didn't leave Tazzy at all. I don't think until 32 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:49.920 I was almost ready to join the army. I think 33 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:52.200 I went to Melbourne one weekend to watch the footy. 34 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:58.280 But yeah, growing up, Dad was a big fisherman. We 35 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:00.159 used to go hunting a fair bit, you know, lot 36 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:04.519 of time our bush, going camping and and things like that. 37 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:06.719 So I think, looking back now that I'm older, a 38 00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:10.199 lot of adventure in my youth, motorbike riding and stuff 39 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:10.520 like that. 40 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:13.280 I don't know if this reference means anything to you, 41 00:02:13.400 --> 00:02:16.319 but it is Tasminia sort of like the West Virginia 42 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:19.159 of Australia. It's like a very remote, out of the 43 00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:19.719 way place. 44 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:23.479 Yeah, we've got it is out of the way. 45 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:27.599 I mean, I'm an our plane flight to Melbourne, which 46 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:30.520 is sort of one of the biggest cities in Australia, 47 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:37.000 but I think it's a third of our island is uninhabited. 48 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:42.000 It's like National Park, and it's a long way out there. 49 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:44.080 We get some wild weather, especially in our south and 50 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:47.520 southwest coast, so a bit of snow on the mountains. 51 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:50.159 We're a fair way south from the equator, so it 52 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:53.240 gets a wild weather, and there's a lot of remote areas. 53 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:56.120 And the vast majority. 54 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:59.719 Of our population sits along the Hobart and the east 55 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:01.560 coast and the north coast of Tazzy. 56 00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:04.240 So yeah, it's pretty pretty rugged in spots. 57 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:08.840 I so military service, like, what was it as like 58 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:11.000 a young guy, you said you hadn't even you know, 59 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:15.439 left the whole island until just before you joined. I mean, 60 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:17.759 what was it that kind of took you out into 61 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:18.360 the world like that? 62 00:03:19.879 --> 00:03:22.280 Yeah, I think I had a little bit of an 63 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:24.199 interest in the military growing up. I used to read 64 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:27.560 a few Vietnam novels, if you like, and watched a 65 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:31.080 few Vietnam movies. But I actually wanted to be a 66 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:33.960 moto mechanic because I loved I suppose probably Dad burn 67 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:36.120 a truck driver, and I love motorbikes and things like that. 68 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:37.800 I wanted to be a mechanic when I left school, 69 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:41.840 but unemployment was pretty high in Tazzy in the late 70 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:44.439 eighties and early nineties, and so I actually struggled to 71 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:48.680 get a job, and eventually I applied to the military 72 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:51.159 to go in and be a motor mechanic in the military. 73 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:56.439 And even though I sort of read a few Vietnam novels, 74 00:03:56.599 --> 00:04:01.439 I think I was pretty naive about what joining the 75 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:05.039 military entailed, and so when I went into recruiting to 76 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:09.280 join up, that was then when I started watching the 77 00:04:09.319 --> 00:04:14.560 recruiting videos for the Australian military, and I think infantry 78 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:18.079 just looked a lot more exciting than fixing motors in 79 00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:20.639 tanks and stuff like that. So I sort of changed 80 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:24.040 my enlistment stream at the last minute and just went 81 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:28.000 general enlistment to go in and do recruit training and 82 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:29.199 basic infantry training. 83 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:29.439 AIR. 84 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:32.040 That was ninety three. 85 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:35.480 I think I joined the Army Reserve for six months, 86 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:38.680 which is like our National service, I think sort of 87 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:42.160 part time. I did that for only about six months, 88 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:45.639 but then when I enlisted into the regular Army, they 89 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:48.680 took me right back to the start to do the 90 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:51.360 full basic training and full infantry IAT training. 91 00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:52.920 You know. 92 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:55.240 The way it's been described to me is that the 93 00:04:55.319 --> 00:05:01.079 Australian military has like a small but very professional military, like, 94 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:03.600 it's actually very hard to qualify just to get into 95 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:04.639 the military in general. 96 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:05.759 I've had people tell. 97 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:09.800 Me, Yeah, I don't know so much about today. I 98 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:16.000 do read in the papers that recruiting levels are low, 99 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:18.639 so I'm not sure whether it's easier to get in 100 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:18.920 or not. 101 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:20.439 Yeah. 102 00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:22.079 Back then, as I said, the reason I joined the 103 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:26.800 Armor Reserve in ninety two was because they weren't taking 104 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:28.800 regular Army infantry. 105 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:30.519 They were full up. 106 00:05:31.879 --> 00:05:36.040 And they are only taking reservist and another scheme that 107 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:38.120 they had called the Ready Reserve, which was twelve months 108 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:40.240 full time, and I didn't want to do that. I 109 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:43.759 just wanted to enlist into the regular Army and sign 110 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:48.959 up from a four years service. So yeah, there was 111 00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:50.839 a lot of testing that did a lot of aptitude 112 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:54.519 testing and side testing and things like that. Yeah, as 113 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:59.360 you said, pretty small military and even today, pretty highly trained, 114 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:04.240 I think being small. 115 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:05.639 And so, how did our infantry training treat you as 116 00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:06.279 a young man? 117 00:06:07.720 --> 00:06:09.959 I loved it? Yeah, it was it was great. It 118 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:10.680 was hard work. 119 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:14.839 I mean, the recruit training wasn't really a shock because 120 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:16.480 I'd done the little Army reserve bit. 121 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:20.240 You know, it was you got tortured a bit, but 122 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:20.920 that was fine. 123 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:24.839 Infantry training I really enjoyed because we didn't We no 124 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:27.040 longer had to sort of march around the parade ground 125 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:31.560 and do what we call drill less theory and more 126 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:35.560 just going out bush and practicing our patrolling and ambushing 127 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:39.759 and defensive and offensive operations. Lots of weaponry and a 128 00:06:39.879 --> 00:06:45.279 learning machine guns and claymores and yeah it was hard work. 129 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:50.399 They tortured us as they do with with pt and stuff. 130 00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:53.279 But I enjoyed it. Yeah, and it was. 131 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:55.160 And as I said, I hadn't left Tazzi before I 132 00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:57.600 joined the Army, so all of a sudden, I'm up 133 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:01.240 in New South Wales. We could go down to Sydney 134 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:03.120 or Newcastle for the weekend and it was the big 135 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:06.519 city and pretty foreign to me after a sheltered childhood. 136 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:11.399 And what was the first unit you got assigned to. 137 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:16.879 I was the first Battalion, the Royal Australian Regiment we 138 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:20.959 call it. A few of the instructors I had on 139 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:24.040 my on my initial employment training or my basic infantry 140 00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:27.639 training were from different infantry battalion. Regular Army infantry battans 141 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:31.759 in Australia at the time. We had the first and 142 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:34.360 the second battalion. Three hour hour was our para battalion 143 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:38.399 and five to seven was our mechanized batain. But one 144 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:42.040 of our instructors had deployed to Somalia with the first 145 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:48.560 battalion in ninety three, and yeah, I just he had 146 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:50.120 a lot of good stories, you know, he had a 147 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:52.839 lot to teach just from his operational service. And so 148 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:56.240 we got to put down our choices of which battaining 149 00:07:56.279 --> 00:07:57.920 to go to. I put the first battan and got 150 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:01.560 that it was. It's a light infantry pattaining. I think 151 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:05.560 it still is today. But because how Blackhawk Calicopters and 152 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:09.839 Chino Calicopters were based in Townsville in the nineties, they 153 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:13.040 did a lot more of the air mobile operations, which 154 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:16.079 sort of appealed to me. So, yeah, it went off 155 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:18.439 to Townsville in North Queensland. 156 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:18.720 It is. 157 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:22.439 And so tell us a little bit about like kind 158 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:24.839 of proceeding through the ranks, like you served in a 159 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:28.560 rifle platoon, a recomp platoon, a snaper platoon. It sounds 160 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:30.560 like you're kind of enjoying what you were doing and 161 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:31.959 wanted more and more of it. 162 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:35.480 Yeah, when I first got to the to the battanon, 163 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:39.080 I mean, promotion was pretty slow in the nineties. 164 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:41.519 People didn't really get out too quickly. 165 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:44.480 A lot of guys I think, stayed in after their 166 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:49.759 Somali deployment. They enjoyed that operational service, you know, doing 167 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:53.600 the job overseas, and so not a lot of people 168 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:54.360 get out got out. 169 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:55.120 Promotion was slow. 170 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:58.080 When I got to the battin it was just as 171 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:04.720 they changed over from what we call a mag fifty eight. 172 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:06.159 Machine gunner seven sixty two machine gun. 173 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:08.080 They changed over at the time when I got there 174 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:11.240 to a five point five to six machine gun, a minimi, 175 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:15.480 and we had two machine guns per section, so I 176 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:18.759 carried a machine gun from my first twelve months, the 177 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:23.679 number two gun we called it. But my second year 178 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:26.399 in the army, I was the lead scout of my 179 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:29.320 ten man section. I think we had about eight in 180 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:33.600 our section at the time, and it was I suppose 181 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:36.600 doing that scouting job for twelve months. 182 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:39.039 It's where I started to get. 183 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:43.480 It a little bit of passion for leading the way 184 00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:46.559 I suppose, like being the guy at the front, and 185 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:48.000 from being a scout. 186 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:48.799 That's where I did. 187 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:52.480 Our reconcourse, which was a pretty tough course they ran 188 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:55.200 in the Batanion back then, I'm sure it still is today. 189 00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:58.960 It was a six week course. They punished you with PT. 190 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:04.559 There wasn't really a high dropout. Maybe one or two 191 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:07.960 out of a course of about twenty five about platoon 192 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:12.639 size would sort of drop out, but it was pretty tough. 193 00:10:12.759 --> 00:10:17.799 We did maybe two or three weeks in Townsville where 194 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:20.120 they did a lot of the reconnaissance theory and smashed 195 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:23.200 us with heavy PT, and then we went up to 196 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:26.080 Tully for a few weeks which is our jungle, one 197 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:30.240 of our jungle training areas in North Queensland, and we 198 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:34.080 just lived in the jungle, I can't remember, for about 199 00:10:34.120 --> 00:10:38.200 maybe about three weeks or say, and really focused on, 200 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:41.559 you know, getting good in the jungle. And they used 201 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:43.600 to say back then, if you can be a soldier 202 00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:46.679 in the jungle, you can be a soldier anywhere. I 203 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:50.480 suppose survived that rain and work in that close country. 204 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:52.600 We still didn't have night vision goggles and things like 205 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:56.919 that then, so a lot of the tactics in the 206 00:10:56.919 --> 00:11:05.000 mid nineties sort of pre the advancement of equipment, thermal 207 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:05.559 images and. 208 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:08.000 Mvgs. 209 00:11:08.679 --> 00:11:10.720 The tactics were probably still pretty similar to what they 210 00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:11.639 used in Vietnam. 211 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:14.480 I suppose, so I really enjoyed that training. 212 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:20.320 Now, and also we're in the nineteen nineties here, so 213 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:24.840 I'm wondering, you know what you guys were training for. 214 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:28.039 I understand you're doing basic infantry and I guess advanced 215 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:31.559 infantry training here. What was there, like a mission set 216 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:35.320 or a particular Australian national security threat that you were 217 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:36.480 training for at that time. 218 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:40.840 Yeah, well, I mean we trained for war, I think 219 00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:44.840 a lot more than specifically. But the battalion I was 220 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:49.000 in was what they called the ODEF Battalion, and every 221 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:52.919 twelve months we swapped with two r ur and one 222 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:57.480 of our tasks was to go overseas and help do 223 00:11:57.879 --> 00:11:59.480 services assisted evacuation. 224 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:00.559 There was. 225 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:04.840 A South Pacific nation, for example, that had a lot 226 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:10.159 of Australian expats living there and civil unrest occurred. We 227 00:12:10.279 --> 00:12:12.639 would be tasked with going over to perhaps secure an 228 00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:18.399 airfield so that they could help evacuate Australian citizens. That 229 00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:21.480 was one of the sort of specific jobs we trained for, 230 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:26.080 I suppose, But now I mostly just you know what 231 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:27.240 we call war roles. 232 00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:29.720 I suppose defending the nation. 233 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:34.320 Was this around the same time frame when you went 234 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:35.120 to East Team or. 235 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:39.600 Yes, I moved to the sas by all the time. 236 00:12:40.360 --> 00:12:43.440 Okay, well let's talk about before we get into team more. 237 00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:45.879 Then let's talk a little bit about you know how 238 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:48.080 you made the jump over, you know what inspired you 239 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:50.679 to do that. So I want to take a minute 240 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:53.519 today to tell you guys about the Perfect Gene. I've 241 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:55.960 been wearing them for a few weeks now and really 242 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:57.559 enjoy them, and I just want to share it with 243 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:01.799 our audience. You know, sometimes jeans have this problem where 244 00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:04.759 you know, you guys all have seen these skinny jeens 245 00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:07.159 that they like crush your balls and you know it's 246 00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:08.440 just not comfortable. 247 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:10.120 To wear or the other way around. The jeans are 248 00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:10.960 like too baggy. 249 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:13.000 You know, you have this sort of like diaper in 250 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:17.000 your ass area looks like. So there are these problems 251 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:20.039 that you know, different fits of different types of genes have, 252 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:23.879 and the Perfect Gene strives to fix that, both the 253 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:29.240 fit but also the mobility, the maneuverability. It has a 254 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:33.000 stretchy fabric, like they say it's like yoga ready, but 255 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:36.600 you know I would say it's athletics ready. You know, 256 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:40.240 moving furniture, doing things around the house. You're not going 257 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:43.960 to have that like super tight like constricted fit that 258 00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:45.360 you feel like you're not gonna be able to move 259 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:49.240 around in. And there are over four hundred thousand people 260 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:51.919 out there wearing these jeans at this point, so not 261 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:54.559 all of them can be wrong. I hope you guys 262 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:57.639 will go and check them out. So a few scenarios 263 00:13:57.679 --> 00:13:59.879 where you can wear these jeans and where they really 264 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:04.720 come together, everything from you know, doing yard work or 265 00:14:04.759 --> 00:14:06.759 doing things around your house, if you have to move 266 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:10.759 furniture around, or you have to do handiwork. They're perfectly comfortable, 267 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:14.200 but you can wear them, you know, getting your man 268 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:17.360 spread on on the subway if that's your thing. So 269 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:20.960 the Perfect Gene is great for all kinds of different environments, 270 00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:23.840 whether it's doing handiwork around the house or on the job, 271 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:26.559 or athletics, and we really hope you guys will go 272 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:29.559 and check them out. For a limited time, our listeners 273 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:32.759 get fifteen percent off their first order plus free shipping 274 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:36.799 at the Perfect Gene dot nyc. Or google the Perfect 275 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:40.000 Gene and use the code House fifteen for fifteen percent off. 276 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:43.360 That's fifteen percent off for new customers at the Perfect 277 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:48.279 Gene dot NYC with promo code house fifteen. 278 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:51.440 After you purchase. They'll ask you where you heard about them. 279 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:53.960 Please support our show and tell them we sent you 280 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:57.360 so fuck your kakis and get the perfect gene. 281 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:03.120 Yeah, the reconnaissance course, as I said, spent twelve months. 282 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:04.440 They really enjoyed that. 283 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:10.279 And I think going to the battalion sniper cell was 284 00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:13.519 kind of this to me, it seemed like this natural progression. 285 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:15.879 I'd gone from working in a platoon strength. 286 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:18.480 Sort of environment down to a four or five man 287 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:21.759 recon patrol and then I just wanted to move into 288 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:28.240 that sort of one to two person sniper pair operating. 289 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:30.720 And yeah, I hadn't been on operations yet. I think 290 00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:32.879 I went to y once with the Batain on a 291 00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:39.039 training activity with the Marines there, and I just it 292 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:42.120 was like a br natural progression. Guys in the battalion 293 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.440 that I was from, when they went to recon or 294 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:47.279 went to snipers at some point in their career, everyone 295 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:50.879 just gave this thing called the SAS selection a crack. 296 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:52.559 They just they give it a go. 297 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:56.200 At the time, the ESSAYS was the only full time 298 00:15:56.360 --> 00:16:01.679 special Forces unit in the Australian Army. And yeah, again 299 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:04.320 probably naive, but I didn't know a lot about the 300 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:06.480 ESSAYS I just signed up to do the selection course 301 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:10.279 because it sounded challenging and it would seem like a 302 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:13.440 natural progression all for people that I had looked up to. 303 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:15.320 In the Bataan had to have to go at some stage. 304 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:20.240 Some came back because they didn't weren't selected, and then 305 00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:22.440 there were these other guys that you never heard from again. 306 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:25.000 They just went off to the essays and you didn't 307 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.080 know what they were doing now. So yeah, it just 308 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:30.039 gave it a crap. What was the hardest part of 309 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:38.320 selection for you? Yeah, it was just generally hard, I 310 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:42.720 suppose towards the end it runs over several weeks. 311 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:44.799 It's sort of ebbs and. 312 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:47.799 Flows by a day here or there, but normally about 313 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:51.399 three weeks and it's running into the last week that 314 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:55.600 they sort of really lift the work rate. They stopped 315 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:58.639 feeding you, they start the sleep deprivation and things like 316 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:02.840 that sage. It's not like one event. I don't think 317 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:05.319 for me that was super difficult. It was just like 318 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:09.000 the further you got into the course, the more drained 319 00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:13.000 you were, you know, the more exhausted you became, the 320 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:14.359 less food and sleep they. 321 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:17.160 Gave you, the harder it got. There were a few 322 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:18.279 events that. 323 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:22.960 Were a bit like arrest for me, I suppose, coming 324 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:27.000 from that recon and sniper background, I was pretty good 325 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:29.119 with my navigation, and we did a couple of solo 326 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:31.839 and navigation exercises on selection. 327 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:36.119 It ran for two or three days. 328 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:40.480 I think one ran for three days, had to navigate 329 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:44.599 around a field training area, did about one hundred and. 330 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:47.759 Ten kilometers or so in full gear. 331 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:50.519 But I kind of enjoyed that one because I had 332 00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:54.880 no directing staff barking down giving me push ups for 333 00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:58.640 not having my water bottles full or something like that. 334 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:00.480 You know, Like that was the bit where I got 335 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:02.799 left alone. Even they had to do a lot of 336 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:05.720 walking so that they were good. But yeah, it just 337 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:08.599 got hard towards the end for me, as it does 338 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:09.279 for most people. 339 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:10.720 I do recall. 340 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:14.559 It must have been like maybe within the last five 341 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:19.079 days or so. They gave us a two hour period 342 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:23.920 to sleep one night, and so within our little team 343 00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:26.319 there was probably about five of us or so left 344 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:30.440 in our little patrol, and we just divi it up 345 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:31.920 whatever whatever. 346 00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:33.759 The amount of time was. I can't remember. Maybe twenty 347 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:36.440 minutes picket. 348 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:39.000 And you could sleep for the rest of the two hours, 349 00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:42.440 and I hit my twenty minute picket and I actually 350 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:47.759 couldn't physically stay awake. I can remember, and one of 351 00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:49.839 the guys that was in my team was from the 352 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:52.759 sniper section in Towns were with me. It was just 353 00:18:53.319 --> 00:18:59.359 sheer coincidence that we both applied for selection, both got 354 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:03.960 as far as we did in it, and to that 355 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:06.359 point we were both in the same team. It was 356 00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:09.480 just like fluke. But I was comfortable enough to wake 357 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:12.160 him up and go, hey, mate, like, I'm going to 358 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:14.039 fall asleep here and it's not going to be good 359 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:16.720 for a lot of us. And so he just did 360 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:20.279 my picket for me, which was awesome. But the next 361 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:22.279 day I sort of spotted for him as well. He 362 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:24.960 was struggling after an obs course and I helped him out. 363 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:30.359 I'm so then talk to us a little bit about 364 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:33.440 after selection and going into sas training. 365 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:34.960 What was the pipeline like. 366 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:40.640 Yeah, so our selection course is exactly that. It's the 367 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:45.119 only course in the Australian military at the time and 368 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:47.640 for a long time after. I mean, I'm not current now, 369 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:50.880 but it's the only course in Australian military where it 370 00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:53.720 was that was not designed to teach you anything. It 371 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:56.680 was purely designed to test you. So they ran that 372 00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:59.680 three week course break you down, find out who you are, 373 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:01.359 and just decide whether. 374 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:02.680 They want you in the unit. 375 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:07.720 And so if you got selected from the selection course, 376 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:11.680 it was that they deemed you suitable for training. We 377 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:14.799 then went into a For me, it was a bit 378 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.079 over twelve months, about twelve month period where we did 379 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:23.119 all our courses to go to an operational squadron and 380 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:27.000 that was phenomenal. I'd come from a military in Townsville 381 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.680 where there was always you know, you were counting the 382 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:32.839 number of blank rounds that you had for training, or 383 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:38.720 you know, you'd go away to do a training activity 384 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:42.279 and there was one set of cam cream per two 385 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:43.599 people or something like that. 386 00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:47.400 You know, everything was very budget restricted. 387 00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:49.559 And we got to the SAS and it was kind 388 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:51.200 of like here, you can shoot as much as you 389 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:54.559 need to, just you got to pass these shoots. The 390 00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:58.240 training was was excellent, and we just did lots of 391 00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:03.720 it for twelve months. Whether the course ran for five 392 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:06.599 days or whether it ran for two or three five weeks. 393 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:10.119 You'd finish course one course on a Friday and you'd 394 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:13.720 start your next one on the Monday. As long as 395 00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:14.680 you passed. 396 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:21.279 Most guys. I mean my selection course, we had. 397 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:26.440 I think about a thousand or twelve hundred or something apply. 398 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:29.640 We had about one hundred and twenty or thirty start 399 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:33.519 the actual selection course, we had twenty eight finish, and 400 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.200 I think we had about we had twenty five selected, 401 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:39.279 so there's only about three or so that didn't get 402 00:21:39.319 --> 00:21:43.559 selected off the course, and then out of that twenty 403 00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:49.319 five or so we only had one or two fail. 404 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:53.599 Training in the reinforcement cycle and one of the toughest 405 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:57.680 courses to pass in that reinforcement cycle would generally be 406 00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:01.160 what they are calling now I think is our target 407 00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:02.240 prosecution course. 408 00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:02.680 It was. 409 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.359 For me what we called our basic close quarter battle course, 410 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:10.559 where you do room entry and you had to get 411 00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:13.640 good with the whole suite of weapons. I mean they 412 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:18.200 trained us on the M four because Australian Army. 413 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:18.279 Used the OSTA. 414 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:24.759 But yeah, not only the M four, you'd be I 415 00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:27.000 mean it was my introduction to pistol shooting. I hadn't 416 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.839 done pistol shooting before that, and that was pretty difficult 417 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:32.240 to pass. Yet I only had a few weeks to 418 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:35.720 get up to speed to pass the qualification shoot. 419 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:39.200 We did the H and K weapons systems and things 420 00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:39.480 like that. 421 00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:44.359 Yeah, but the actual reinforcement title a lot of courses. 422 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:47.519 One of the first ones was an actual reconnaissance course. 423 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:51.440 In the Sas they called it the patrol course. It 424 00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:55.359 was a bit similar to the reconnaissance course i'd done. 425 00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:58.000 It was out in the field in the bush environment, 426 00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:04.720 five man patrols, close target reconnaissance, things like that, but 427 00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:07.960 it was a lot more special operations focus than I'd 428 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:09.599 done in one hour. 429 00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:13.400 In one hour, we had three methods of insertion. 430 00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:17.880 We either walked in, got a truck, or we were 431 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:21.720 which we thought was quite special, qualified to repel out 432 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:23.480 of helicopters. So we did a lot of black Hawk 433 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:27.359 repelling into the jungle and things like that. Even on 434 00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:32.000 my basic patrol course in the Sas, the half a 435 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:34.720 dozen training patrols, I think we had to swim in 436 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:38.720 on one from the ocean, we walked in on one. 437 00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:43.319 We had a light aircraft insertion on another one sort 438 00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:46.240 of an agent sort of insertion, things like that. So 439 00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:51.920 a lot more special operations focused. You had to pass 440 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:57.759 that one ice. Different patrol members in the Sas specialize 441 00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:02.079 in different areas. We have both medics and sikhs for 442 00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:08.000 our basic patrol qualification. I qualified as a medic, which 443 00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:11.960 at the time was a six week advanced first aid 444 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:16.519 course if you liked, but you could annulate and do 445 00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:22.960 tracks and a few more sort of advanced medical things 446 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:26.160 and then you would do some ride alongs with the 447 00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:30.960 local paramedics in Western Australia or Sydney or something like that. 448 00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:37.440 So I specialized as a medic, which was good, and 449 00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:40.559 then we have different insertion skiols, or we did. We 450 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:43.920 had different insertion skills then whether you were a diver, 451 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:48.119 a free fall or a mobility operator. And going back 452 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:51.599 to my love of vehicles as a kid and motorbike 453 00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.640 riding and things like that, I requested and got to 454 00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:56.240 specialize as a vehicle. 455 00:24:57.599 --> 00:24:58.160 Operator. 456 00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:04.200 So we did truck courses, driving courses, forward driving courses. 457 00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:06.440 At the time we had our six wood patrol vehicles. 458 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:10.279 We did a motorbike course, and we did a quad 459 00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:13.240 course and things like that, and then the whole suite 460 00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:16.519 of the courses that everyone else does. Close quarter battle, 461 00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:22.200 as I said, which was encompassed hostage rescue. We did 462 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:25.359 a basic and an advanced course of that did demolitions 463 00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:32.319 as well as method of entry, did a parachute course, 464 00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:38.079 a standard static line parachute course, small boat handling, yeah, 465 00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:39.000 I can't remember them all. 466 00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:40.960 Survival course was a good one. 467 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:44.640 I've done a few survival courses already, but they dumped 468 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:46.640 us in the jungle in North Queensland again for a 469 00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:50.720 few weeks, a lot of training over the twelve months. 470 00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:51.240 It was great. 471 00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:57.440 And just to speak for a moment about the mission 472 00:25:57.440 --> 00:25:59.920 of the SAS, like, correct me if I'm wrong. I've 473 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:03.440 heard that the core mission of the SAS is a 474 00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:06.359 strategic reconnaissance and unconventional warfare. 475 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:07.200 Is that? 476 00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:11.519 Yeah, that's pretty accurate when you sort of say. 477 00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:13.880 A core mission. 478 00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:16.599 It was definitely sort of our core mission was that 479 00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:19.599 long range strategic reconnaissance. 480 00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:23.440 When I joined in. 481 00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:28.480 Saying that though Australia, as we always already said, is 482 00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:31.880 a small military and the SAS at the time would 483 00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:35.480 do whatever the conventional military wouldn't do. So even in 484 00:26:35.559 --> 00:26:39.400 training quite a lot they'd come up with scenarios. 485 00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:42.400 We need this effect, how are we're going to do it? 486 00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:47.680 And it was up to the squadron commander and the 487 00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:51.160 patrol commander to come up with some ideas on how 488 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:54.519 they might achieve this goal or achieve this effect in 489 00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:55.279 the battle space. 490 00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:58.000 One of the things we had mentioned to me is 491 00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:01.799 you know, of course the Australian mility, terry and Australian 492 00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:04.160 defense for US is being small. You guys also have 493 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:08.359 the domestic counter terrorism mission. And you said you worked 494 00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:11.440 security for the Olympics in two thousand. 495 00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:13.920 Yeah, so, because I was. 496 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:19.160 A sniper in the infantry brittaion as soon as I 497 00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:22.640 finished my reinforcement cycle, our sniper training within the SAS 498 00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:28.759 was more of an advanced skill set and so when 499 00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:32.839 you came, and we also rotated through a system we 500 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.960 used to they don't do it anymore where we had 501 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:40.880 three operational saber squadrons as we called them, and they 502 00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:44.359 would rotate through a three year cycle. The first year 503 00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:48.599 would be a lot of training so that the guys 504 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:50.839 that had just finished a three year cycle could do 505 00:27:50.920 --> 00:27:55.000 things like promotion courses and they would be the blakes 506 00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:57.680 that were dragged back to instruct the new guys in 507 00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:01.640 the in the training squadron and different things like that. 508 00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:05.920 The second year they did what was called war roles. 509 00:28:05.960 --> 00:28:08.079 You were the one that was ready to go overseas 510 00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:11.279 on a moment's notice. If that's what was required, and 511 00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:14.039 then the third year you did the domestic count of terrorism, 512 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:18.599 which was something that the SAS developed before my time, 513 00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:22.640 probably in the late seventies and through the period of 514 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:27.799 the eighties they really developed the domestic counter terrorism themselves 515 00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:30.880 a lot because they didn't have much capability sort of 516 00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:36.400 pre nineteen eighties. But for me, because I was a 517 00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:40.000 sniper in the Batanion, they had a shortage in sniper 518 00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:42.799 troop for the Sydney Olympic Games and they recognized this 519 00:28:43.640 --> 00:28:47.039 by the start of nineteen ninety nine. 520 00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:48.839 The Olympic Games. 521 00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:51.960 Were in mid two thousand, I think, and so I 522 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:57.000 got sent to do the SAS sniper courses shortly after 523 00:28:57.079 --> 00:28:59.599 I got to my operational squadron so that I could 524 00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:03.039 go into sniper troop for the Sydney Olympic Games. 525 00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:05.480 That was good. That was pretty long. 526 00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:08.440 You did a sniper course which was kind of six weeks, 527 00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:10.640 similar to the to the standard military one. It was 528 00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:15.680 field craft and navigation and you know, getting good at 529 00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:20.599 your basic war roles, sniping tasks, learning how to stalk 530 00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:24.279 and all that sort of stuff. Again, not a lot 531 00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:27.799 of laser range finders and stuff around in those days, 532 00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:29.799 so you're doing judging distance activities and. 533 00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:34.880 You finish that, and then I, after the six week. 534 00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:39.960 Sniper course, went on basic sniper course for the SAS, 535 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:43.079 went onto a counter terrorism sniper course which. 536 00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:44.240 Was a lot more urban. 537 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.599 Containing a stronghold where the terrorists were and things like that. 538 00:29:49.640 --> 00:29:52.079 And so doing security for the Olympics. 539 00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:54.000 Was that were you in sort of like a counter 540 00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:56.319 sniper role in this particular case. 541 00:29:57.359 --> 00:29:57.839 Yeah, we did. 542 00:29:58.039 --> 00:29:59.880 We did a lot of training in the lead up 543 00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:02.759 to the Olympics in sort of late ninety nine. We're 544 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:06.720 spending time in Sydney conducting a lot of mission rehearsals. 545 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:13.920 And we had a few other roles within the sniper troop. 546 00:30:13.960 --> 00:30:17.759 Obviously the support the assault troops. We had a couple 547 00:30:17.799 --> 00:30:21.559 of assault troops and we would support them, so they 548 00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:26.240 would quite often maybe you want approach shooters for leading 549 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:28.119 into a target or. 550 00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:30.839 Different bits and pieces. 551 00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:32.119 We used to I used to do a lot of 552 00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:38.240 liaison with military, with civilian assets, emergency services and things 553 00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:42.839 like that. But then once the sort of Olympic Games 554 00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:46.960 rolled around, we were just on standboy in. 555 00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.319 The back of a truck weaving. 556 00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:49.680 Ah. 557 00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:56.000 No, I suppose funly and quite good for us. Was 558 00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:01.039 we would go to the venues. Basically, what was a 559 00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:03.319 bit of a dead giveaway for the security guys at 560 00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:06.519 the Olympics was we had these Olympic passes that would 561 00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:09.759 let us go anywhere no one else had them, and 562 00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:12.400 so we had every letter of the alphabet and every 563 00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:15.200 symbol you could get on you on your pass. 564 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:18.720 And quite often you're going to watch a sport. 565 00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:21.960 I mean I've got to fortunately got to see every event, 566 00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.039 I think every international sport at the Olympics, but quite 567 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:28.799 often would get stopped by the security guard at the 568 00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:31.880 entrance because he thought my pass was fake because it 569 00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:36.039 just had too many too much access on it. But 570 00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:38.240 we'd go and go and watch the events and remain 571 00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:42.519 on call, and we'd have to supply guys to the 572 00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:48.920 DO liaison with just the security control centers and things 573 00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:49.319 like that. 574 00:31:50.359 --> 00:31:51.079 Just be ready to go. 575 00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:54.960 And tell us a little bit about East Team War. 576 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.880 This is I take it pre nine to eleven or 577 00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:00.440 right around that time frame. This was sort of the 578 00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:02.640 thing that Australia had going on at the time. 579 00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:06.319 Yeah, and while the Sydney Olympic Game seemed like a 580 00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:07.519 huge blessing. 581 00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:12.720 When I got sent to that squadron in ninety nine. 582 00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:16.519 It was pretty shortly after that we were in training 583 00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:19.240 for the Olympics in Sydney and East Team OR kicked off, 584 00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:22.519 so a different squadron was the first one to deploy 585 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:27.400 the East Team OR in nineteen ninety nine. East Team 586 00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:29.960 OR for the Australian Military went on for a long time. 587 00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:33.039 I had a great trip. So I finished the Sydney 588 00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:36.440 Olympic Games in two thousand, got a bit of Christmas 589 00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:40.240 leave I think, and then deployed to East Team OR 590 00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:44.000 very early in two thousand and one, which was a 591 00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:49.000 great time to be there, in the fact that I 592 00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:54.440 was there maybe February I think, and stayed until about 593 00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:59.079 September when they had their actual very first Independent Democratic election. 594 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:00.880 It was great to be. 595 00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:04.319 There in the lead up to the election to go 596 00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:09.279 and see the rallies for voting and things like that. 597 00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:11.599 Yeah. I really enjoyed my timing Team OR and. 598 00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:18.200 A classic I suppose SF role that we had for 599 00:33:18.759 --> 00:33:20.240 the six or seven months I was there. 600 00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:23.000 My team we. 601 00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:29.599 Did that basic sort of field reconnaissance conduct ops ground truthing. 602 00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:33.279 We would roll through a QRF where every now and 603 00:33:33.319 --> 00:33:35.920 then if they were militia coming across the border, we'd 604 00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:38.720 get a call out to go down and rope in 605 00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:42.720 and conduct a tracking task to try and chase up 606 00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:47.039 the militia. I did VIP protection for some of the 607 00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:49.400 Australian diplomats that wanted to come to East Team or to. 608 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:50.079 Visit the troops. 609 00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:53.680 So it was we did some humanitarian a patrols which 610 00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:56.759 were hugely rewarding, where we would just go out to 611 00:33:56.839 --> 00:34:03.200 remote villages just to sort of do that classic sort 612 00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:06.680 of ground truthing and collecting of information. But at the 613 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.000 same time we would do medical clinics for people that 614 00:34:11.239 --> 00:34:14.639 didn't really have access to any health care or anything 615 00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:19.159 like that. Some really interesting situations where you would come 616 00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:21.960 across people with dislocated shoulders and they'd been dissicated for 617 00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:24.239 five years from when they found it fell out of 618 00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:28.920 a tree once. Or the tropical ulses were always a classic. 619 00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:32.400 You would come across largacles that had had a some 620 00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:35.920 sort of tropical ulca or skin infection and it had 621 00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:40.480 grown over months to be almost taking over a lowell 622 00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:43.599 limb or something like that, and you'd give them some 623 00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:47.159 oral antibiotics and it'd be gone in days like because 624 00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:49.360 they didn't really have access to antibiotics. 625 00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:50.239 Or anything like that. 626 00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.840 It was amazing to sort of see some of those 627 00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:56.239 things from a medical perspective. 628 00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:03.119 So yeah, big variety in roles. We did no real 629 00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:08.280 connetic no contacts for me. 630 00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:11.360 I mean, I tracked down a few militia and things 631 00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:14.320 like that, a lot of small style stuff. But there 632 00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:17.039 was a bit of fighting in each team or with militia, 633 00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:20.320 but it all occurred before I got there. So my 634 00:35:21.159 --> 00:35:25.280 six month deployment was pretty quiet but super interesting. I 635 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:28.599 mean it was the first time I'd been overseas ands 636 00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:30.559 carrying live rounds and operations and. 637 00:35:32.559 --> 00:35:33.559 I was, yeah, I was. 638 00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:35.519 I was out there in the bush with militia, so 639 00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:38.599 they they would have had a crack if they could 640 00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:39.920 have got if they thought they could have got away 641 00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:40.159 with it. 642 00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:45.920 And then nine to eleven happens, And I mean I 643 00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:50.760 want to ask you, like, did the Australian sas think 644 00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:52.400 that they were going to be a part of this 645 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:53.880 war on terror immediately? 646 00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:56.119 I mean what was sort of the thought process for 647 00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:56.639 you guys? 648 00:35:58.000 --> 00:35:58.280 Yeah? 649 00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:01.800 For me, actually, September eleven, I was in East Team 650 00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:05.639 or and I was cleaning my gear to return back 651 00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:10.280 to Australia. It was the end of my deployment, and 652 00:36:11.599 --> 00:36:14.800 we were based at a place outside Dilley in the hills, 653 00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:18.440 and the next morning I was scheduled to wake up, 654 00:36:18.519 --> 00:36:21.960 drive back to Dilly and jump on a plane back 655 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:27.599 to Australia, and someone came actually running into my tent 656 00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:30.920 I was sleeping in a tent in our little compound 657 00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:34.079 and sort of said, hey, man, you've got to come 658 00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:36.639 and watch the news. There's some crazy stuff going on 659 00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:40.920 in the States. And at the time I was pretty tired. 660 00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:42.320 I knew I had to get up early and I'd 661 00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:44.639 only just finish clean and my geara said, ah, I'll 662 00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:46.960 check it out in the morning, thanks, and he sort 663 00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:48.679 of ran off. I suppose to the next tent to 664 00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:50.920 tell the next guy, and I didn't think much of it. 665 00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:52.840 I went to sleep, and when I woke up the 666 00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:58.760 next day and started getting that news coming through, I 667 00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:02.800 knew it was a big deal, as I think everyone did, 668 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.599 but because I'd just finished a six month deployment overseas, 669 00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:11.320 I knew I wouldn't be in the first group to 670 00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:14.440 go away if Blake's went away. I think it was 671 00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:18.360 pretty shortly though, after I got back to Perth that. 672 00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:21.320 Maybe days. 673 00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:24.679 It's hard to remember but it was pretty shortly after 674 00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:27.440 I got back to Perth that I spoke to a 675 00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:29.239 few of my friends, a few of my good mates, 676 00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:31.880 some that i'd done selection with or served in the 677 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:34.360 battalion with, but they are in a different squadron to me, 678 00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:38.760 and they were like, hey, the whole squadron's gone to 679 00:37:38.920 --> 00:37:44.119 Afghan So that was yeah, and you know, shortly after 680 00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:49.559 late two thousand and one, Yeah, they knew it was 681 00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:52.639 a big deal and Australia was pretty keen to support 682 00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:55.599 you guys, support our American allies. 683 00:37:57.639 --> 00:38:01.079 Hey, guys, are show is sponsored by Ghosts. Check them out. 684 00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:05.840 Please to make awesome mattresses, awesome pillows, awesome betting. Ghostpread 685 00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:10.000 provides high quality, is super comfortable, award winning mattresses crafted 686 00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:13.000 in the US and Canada. Did you know that sixty 687 00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.400 percent of US adults report being too hot when they're 688 00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:18.400 trying to sleep? That's me, I'm a sweaty little baby. 689 00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:21.400 That's why we designed all of our products with cooling 690 00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:24.679 features so you stay comfortable in a sleep all night long. 691 00:38:25.480 --> 00:38:28.599 Pair any of our mattresses with ghost Beds Award winning 692 00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:32.599 adjustable base and get the ultimate sleep experience. Ghost Spared 693 00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:36.679 rules the family owned business sixty thousand plus five star reviews. 694 00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:40.039 They have sleep experts on staff with twenty plus years 695 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:42.079 of experience. If you have any questions, you can hit 696 00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:44.320 them up and ask them, you know, maybe what kind 697 00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:45.440 of mattresses. 698 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:45.719 Work for you. 699 00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:49.639 Twenty plus year warranty that's two times the industry standard. 700 00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:52.840 Free shipping and returns on mattresses. Most of the products 701 00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:56.079 ship out within twenty four hours. They have in house 702 00:38:56.119 --> 00:39:00.719 customer support and sleep actress sleep experts Chilling and Plantation, Florida. 703 00:39:02.440 --> 00:39:03.400 It rules, it's the best. 704 00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:06.840 They give you one hundred and one night's risk free 705 00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:08.880 to make sure that these beds are right for you. 706 00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:11.280 If you don't like it after one hundred and one nights, 707 00:39:11.320 --> 00:39:12.840 you could send it back full refund. 708 00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:13.800 Uh. 709 00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:17.679 When you purchase a ghost bed mattress, you're comfort guaranteed. 710 00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:21.639 I'm reading it right now, and it's capital letters guaranteed. Okay, 711 00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:23.960 they do the right thing and they're a great company. 712 00:39:24.519 --> 00:39:26.519 If you're not sure which ghost bed's right for you, 713 00:39:26.599 --> 00:39:28.360 like I said before, you could take you could take 714 00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:31.559 their mattress quiz online, or you can give a call 715 00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:33.480 to one of their sleep experts and they'll help you 716 00:39:33.559 --> 00:39:37.000 with exactly what you possibly could need, what works for you, 717 00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:40.199 and what doesn't. And the best news about this is 718 00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:43.519 Teamhouse listeners and viewers. You get an extra ten percent 719 00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:46.599 off sitewide for a limited time. You just go to 720 00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:50.039 ghostped dot com slash house and use the code house 721 00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:53.119 at checkout one more time. That's ghost sped dot com 722 00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:58.199 slash house with the code House ho u se at 723 00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:02.320 checkout for an extra ten percent off sate wide. I 724 00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:04.920 want to think go sped for their continued support. I 725 00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:07.079 want to thank all the fans that listen and watch 726 00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:10.000 for their continued support. Without you, guys, we are nothing. 727 00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:12.960 So thank you for supporting the show, and thank you 728 00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:16.440 for supporting the companies that help support the show. Gospad 729 00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:19.760 dot com slash house for ten percent off made in 730 00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:22.599 the US, meeting Canada. Shout out to our brothers in Canada. 731 00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:26.960 They rock. Check them out. I love gosped. Thanks guys. 732 00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:31.480 And at what point did your squadron get brought into it? 733 00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:36.159 Yeah, we did that first twelve months. 734 00:40:36.519 --> 00:40:40.880 We did four month deployments and my squadron was the 735 00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:43.719 last one to go, so I think my deployment was 736 00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:49.199 around mid two thousand and two until December We got 737 00:40:49.239 --> 00:40:53.880 home just before Christmas in two thousand and two. 738 00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:57.519 But yeah, again. 739 00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:02.960 I can up to the deployment with it was for 740 00:41:03.039 --> 00:41:08.000 me at the time, it was pretty happy. Again, didn't 741 00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:10.559 get into any big battles or anything like that, arrested 742 00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:13.760 a few militia, but by the time I got there 743 00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:17.159 in mid two thousand and two, it had quietened down 744 00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:17.679 a fair bit. 745 00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:19.840 I suppose. 746 00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:24.079 The Taliban that could get across the border in the 747 00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:26.960 Pakistan had done so, and they were sort of lying 748 00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:29.000 low to see how things were going to play out, 749 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:34.000 and so there were still a few criminals about. We 750 00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:40.000 drove through one too many mindfields by accident, but not Yeah, 751 00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:41.800 we didn't get into any shootouts. 752 00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:47.199 Part of the we're in Afghanistan, were you at that time? 753 00:41:48.519 --> 00:41:51.880 The first squadron first essays squadron that went, I'm pretty 754 00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:54.039 sure based out of Kanadheart, but the second two based 755 00:41:54.039 --> 00:41:57.599 out of Bagram Bagrom was sort of up and running 756 00:41:57.639 --> 00:41:59.920 by then. But in saying that, I mean that the 757 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:06.280 employment for me wasn't spent in Bagram. We flew into Bagram, 758 00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:09.320 we got the vehicles. We had our six will long 759 00:42:09.400 --> 00:42:13.480 range patrol vehicles in country. The squadron, the mobility troupe 760 00:42:13.480 --> 00:42:18.920 that was there before mine handed the vehicles over to us. 761 00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:23.320 We spent a week in backroom doing some servicing and 762 00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:27.920 mechanical repairs, and went out to the range and test 763 00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:30.039 fired our heavy weapons and all that sort of stuff, 764 00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:33.519 and we rolled them onto a hirk and flew down 765 00:42:33.559 --> 00:42:38.119 the Jalalabad, rolled off the herk, and then drove the 766 00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:42.119 border between Afghanist back Pakistan. I think our first our 767 00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:47.400 first patrol in country was in the vicinity of about 768 00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:54.519 fifty days or so. It was pretty long patrol. Mind, yeah, 769 00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:56.840 it was a big patrol. We we got recepped in 770 00:42:56.880 --> 00:43:00.280 the field so every few every few weeks to say, 771 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:00.920 well we needed. 772 00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:02.400 It because we needed fuel and food. 773 00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:06.760 But every few weeks us schnook could come in and 774 00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:09.920 bring us fuel and food and we'd set out again 775 00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:11.079 on another two weeks stint. 776 00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:13.960 And say my four month deployment. 777 00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:17.679 I actually only did three three patrols, or only did 778 00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:21.000 three jobs. The first one was that long range patrol 779 00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:26.079 down the border. We rolled the cars off a herk 780 00:43:27.159 --> 00:43:32.599 in Jelalabad and just patrolled talking to the locals, ground truthing, 781 00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:39.119 and it was pretty amazing down through cowst which Is 782 00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:44.920 obviously had been a bit of a hub for the 783 00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:48.760 Taliban through the eighties and nineties. 784 00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:54.800 I think visited some really interesting spots that have been bombed. 785 00:43:55.159 --> 00:44:01.440 Sort of straight after nine to eleven, at the end 786 00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:05.440 of that trip, we came back to Bagram and we 787 00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:06.840 flew out and did I think. 788 00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:08.280 It was about a six day op. 789 00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:12.719 They just dropped our patrol back in the field after 790 00:44:12.760 --> 00:44:15.519 we spent a day in a day or two in base. 791 00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:16.559 Having a hot feed. 792 00:44:16.599 --> 00:44:21.719 And it was actually an American I think I can't remember, 793 00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:23.880 might have been tenth Mountain. We're doing this sweep down 794 00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:26.440 a valley and clearing some villages, and so we just 795 00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:30.840 dropped on the hill for the five days pre pre 796 00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:35.880 that operation and just sort of you know, fed back 797 00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:39.360 to headquarters before the actual job and then while they 798 00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:42.599 did the sweep. That was pretty good, but some of 799 00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:47.519 the most horrendous walking I've done, I mean from sas 800 00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:51.679 selection and even each team or there's plenty of huals 801 00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:53.239 to walk up and down in each team, all which 802 00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:57.239 we did. But to get from our insertion point about 803 00:44:57.280 --> 00:44:59.280 twenty k's or something I think it was to our 804 00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:05.039 op point for that for that task was some of 805 00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:08.519 the most horrendous walking I think I've ever done, and 806 00:45:08.599 --> 00:45:11.400 you needed to carry the water because you couldn't we 807 00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:15.119 couldn't get water locally, so that was good. We went 808 00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:17.039 back to base after that and then went back out 809 00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:20.559 on another vehicle patrol, which that second one I remember 810 00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:24.679 was I think sixty nine days. So we just, yeah, 811 00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:30.480 like patrolled around drinking chai with the locals. And I 812 00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:34.880 feel hugely fortunate to haven't have done that patrol after 813 00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:37.559 everything else that came at that time. 814 00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:39.400 I probably didn't appreciate it. I thought it was going 815 00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:40.039 to be the norm. 816 00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:44.440 But to my last deployment where I don't think I 817 00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:47.880 stayed in the field overnight because we were just flying 818 00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:51.880 in and out targeting, we lived with the locals. We 819 00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:55.760 would actually quite often be driving around, you know, we'd 820 00:45:55.840 --> 00:45:59.159 hide in the in the field a lot, you know, 821 00:45:59.320 --> 00:46:03.440 go into it a layoup point and run pickets. But 822 00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:07.199 then often we talk to locals in a village and 823 00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:10.039 they'd say, hey, come stay with us, and they would 824 00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:13.159 have chai and they'd give us dinner, and it's amazing. 825 00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:18.039 It's probably the one deployment where I learned the most 826 00:46:18.079 --> 00:46:19.760 about the real Afghan culture. 827 00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:22.920 I think which was really good. 828 00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:28.559 And so yeah, I've heard that some of the American 829 00:46:28.599 --> 00:46:31.679 commanders really loved you guys, and I think maybe the 830 00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:36.519 Danish and maybe the Norwegians also because your wreckie guys 831 00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:39.079 can stay out in the field for so long when 832 00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:42.000 the Danes are like, yeah, we can occupy that op 833 00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:44.440 for twenty days, and they're like, whoa, our teams can 834 00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:46.559 only do it for like four days, Like what the hell? 835 00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:49.159 And you're talking about fifty sixty day patrols. I mean 836 00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:50.360 that's pretty hardcore. 837 00:46:51.639 --> 00:46:54.280 Yeah, I mean we had our vehicles and we and 838 00:46:54.519 --> 00:46:55.920 that was my bread and butter. 839 00:46:56.559 --> 00:46:57.840 We could live out of our vehicles. 840 00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:01.199 I mean we would changed the gearbox and we had 841 00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:05.239 a gearbox go in a car, and so we did 842 00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:08.360 the new gearboxing and set it out to the field 843 00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:09.159 and we changed it out. 844 00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:12.199 You guys are the descendants of you know, the long 845 00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:14.800 range desert patrol right from World War Two. 846 00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:20.360 Yeah, yeah, well we like to think so that was 847 00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:24.639 certainly pretty epic. Those blokes hardcore, But yeah, we just 848 00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:27.880 we stayed in the field. They I mean, we initially 849 00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:30.639 got that job. My this is my understanding, and it's 850 00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:34.760 a story that was told to me or wasn't there obviously, 851 00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:39.840 but when our sort of our second squadron was in country, 852 00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:42.559 I think the first squadron that was, you know, a. 853 00:47:42.519 --> 00:47:45.400 Torah borer, and they did a lot of ops and. 854 00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:49.199 We had an American We didn't have our own j 855 00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:53.360 A tax back in two thousand and one, so it 856 00:47:53.440 --> 00:47:55.440 was around that tourrible at the time we realized, hey, 857 00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:59.880 we need this skill set inherent in our patrols, and 858 00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:01.960 so we take American JTEX. 859 00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:02.719 But they did a lot of. 860 00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:05.639 Aping, they did a lot of certain they were still 861 00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:07.199 looking for the Taliban a lot. I mean, one of 862 00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:09.400 my major jobs in two thousand and two was still 863 00:48:09.519 --> 00:48:10.800 asked the locals where someone. 864 00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:12.800 Bin Ladnis, which we did. 865 00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:16.239 We drove around the border looking asking the locals, Yeah, 866 00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:22.519 he's over that way, they were telling us then. But 867 00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:26.920 by the time our second squadron got there, I suppose 868 00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:29.760 the fighting had died down a fair bit. America said 869 00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:32.760 to us, what can you do, how can you help us? 870 00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:37.679 What capabilities can you provide? And whoever our CA was 871 00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:39.519 at the time sort of just went well, my guys 872 00:48:39.559 --> 00:48:43.960 are pretty good with strategic reconnaissance. We'll send them out 873 00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:45.679 in the field and they can drive around in their 874 00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:50.239 cars and talk to the locals, and I think that 875 00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:54.840 whoever was in charge back then sort of went okay, 876 00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:57.800 it sounds good and just let us do our thing. 877 00:48:58.840 --> 00:49:00.519 But there was then just huge impressed that. 878 00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:02.320 Yeah, we went out into the field for sixty nine 879 00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:06.440 days and didn't come back, and it's just kept punching in. 880 00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:09.280 Report after report after report, just been to this village. 881 00:49:09.639 --> 00:49:11.639 They haven't they thought we were Russian. They haven't seen 882 00:49:11.639 --> 00:49:14.280 anyone here since the Russians were here type thing. 883 00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:16.119 There was a lot of that. Yeah. 884 00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:19.400 Yeah, it's a difficult job, but you know, you guys 885 00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:21.679 being so morbile and being out there for so long, 886 00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:24.119 you got a lot done. And like you said, delivering 887 00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:26.599 ground truth to the commanders, there's a lot of that. 888 00:49:27.800 --> 00:49:29.280 Yeah. 889 00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:32.480 Yes, And if we had oh god, I'm sorry, go ahead, 890 00:49:33.079 --> 00:49:33.519 Oh I was. 891 00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:34.800 Going to say, if we could have, if it had 892 00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:39.360 a state sort of that. I mean, my longer opinions 893 00:49:39.400 --> 00:49:42.280 of the whole thing was a smaller force, we've probably 894 00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:44.960 been better and if we had have kept doing what 895 00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:47.280 we're doing back then, might have worked out to be 896 00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:47.840 better for us. 897 00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:51.360 But we were trying to keep people safe too. 898 00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:55.159 What was the second deployment to Afghanistan. How is it 899 00:49:55.159 --> 00:49:56.360 different than the first. 900 00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:00.800 I didn't go back until two thousand seven. The essays 901 00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:05.880 sort of went back twelve months before that, So my 902 00:50:06.079 --> 00:50:09.000 second deployment was two thousand and seven, and by that 903 00:50:09.199 --> 00:50:14.599 time the Australian military had been given the province of 904 00:50:14.679 --> 00:50:19.079 Urezgan to help with. I mean there was Americans obviously there, 905 00:50:19.079 --> 00:50:22.719 the Dutch were there. But yeah, I arrived back, landed 906 00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:27.719 on the dirt strip in Tarancott and got off the 907 00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:35.840 plane to still just kind of do the same modus 908 00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:39.000 operandi where we jump in our cars and go out, 909 00:50:39.320 --> 00:50:41.000 but we were no longer doing. 910 00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:46.679 Reconnaissance of this sort of environment. 911 00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:50.639 We were doing reconnaissance to push the Taliban back out 912 00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:53.639 of TK because they were trying to come back and 913 00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:54.760 impose their dominance. 914 00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:56.679 They definitely they'd come back in force. 915 00:50:59.320 --> 00:51:02.920 To take back over, and so we were literally trying 916 00:51:02.920 --> 00:51:06.239 to push the teleban back out of TK as far 917 00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:09.880 as we could so that the reconstruction effort could get 918 00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:15.039 in there, so that the newly flagling Afghan military could 919 00:51:15.079 --> 00:51:18.079 get in there and provide the security. 920 00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:22.360 And that was the full SATG task Force. 921 00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:25.880 Now with an it was no longer an Essays squadron 922 00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:27.880 that I deployed within two thousand and two. It was 923 00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:31.480 just an Essays troop and a commando company, So it 924 00:51:31.559 --> 00:51:32.400 was a pretty. 925 00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:37.760 Combat capable unit. 926 00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:41.239 The old SATG in Afghanistan right back from two thousand 927 00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:42.039 and six. 928 00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:47.719 How was that relationship, that working relationship, like with the commandos, 929 00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:50.400 Like I know they're historically there's been some rivalries, but 930 00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:52.639 I also would like to ask you, like, how do 931 00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:54.960 they work together? Like how did that work out for 932 00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:57.480 you guys? Because there's a lot of capability there too. 933 00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:01.320 Yeah, and it's obviously well documented that it was pretty 934 00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:04.599 strained over the years. 935 00:52:05.800 --> 00:52:08.079 We did some joint operations. I mean I did some. 936 00:52:10.119 --> 00:52:13.079 I did some support tasks for commando sweeps where you 937 00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:16.599 know they classic sas control weekend holder put in an 938 00:52:16.599 --> 00:52:19.239 ap on a mountain twenty four hours before the commandos 939 00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:20.719 came in for a sweep. We did that a couple 940 00:52:20.760 --> 00:52:26.400 of times. I think I think it's some of the 941 00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:32.679 interunit rivalry, and I sort of, in my opinion, interunit 942 00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:33.800 rivalry can be good. 943 00:52:34.599 --> 00:52:35.400 We definitely had. 944 00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:38.159 It when I was in an infantry BATTAI and our 945 00:52:38.599 --> 00:52:40.719 brother of battalion two our hour across the road. 946 00:52:40.760 --> 00:52:42.679 We used to get stuck into each other all the time. 947 00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:50.000 Perhaps over the years the commando sas interunit rivalry went 948 00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:53.440 a bit fart as in there was a bit of 949 00:52:53.480 --> 00:52:58.400 dislike on some people. But I will clarify with some people, 950 00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:01.440 so I never really it. I had mates and commandos 951 00:53:01.480 --> 00:53:09.599 and and I think regardless of commando or sas, a 952 00:53:09.679 --> 00:53:12.719 lot of the guys, most guys were focused on their job, 953 00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:17.840 were getting as good at their job as they could get. 954 00:53:18.239 --> 00:53:20.400 And a few blakes that were worried about what the 955 00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:27.039 other guy was doing. I think they were mind already personally. 956 00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:30.159 I mean, I didn't ever experience any that any of 957 00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:37.239 the inter unit rivalry much. Yeah, but you know, it 958 00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:41.960 probably could have been all helped a lot by that 959 00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:46.679 sort of colonel brigadier general rank. 960 00:53:48.039 --> 00:53:49.599 Level giving a bit. 961 00:53:49.400 --> 00:53:52.400 More direction on rolls and tasks. There was a bit 962 00:53:52.400 --> 00:53:56.760 of blurring of roles and tasks there. If they wanted 963 00:53:56.800 --> 00:53:59.840 to me, yeah, if they wanted us to do the 964 00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:04.400 same task, will come out and say that they kind 965 00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:07.360 of never really did want us to do the same task, 966 00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:09.360 I don't think. But it was a huge gray space, 967 00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:12.400 and soldiers don't work well in that grade space. 968 00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:16.480 They need, they need their. 969 00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:18.840 Missions given to them, you know, you know, we want 970 00:54:18.840 --> 00:54:20.760 to know what the strategic contend is so we can 971 00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:21.599 help achieve. 972 00:54:21.280 --> 00:54:22.440 It, right. 973 00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:26.000 Yeah, I think the unit of we was blown out 974 00:54:26.039 --> 00:54:27.559 of proportion by the media. 975 00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:32.760 Trying to you know, trying to find a story that 976 00:54:32.840 --> 00:54:33.960 was going to get lots of clicks. 977 00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:36.199 It was never as bad as. 978 00:54:36.320 --> 00:54:40.559 It did exist, but it was probably mostly existing by 979 00:54:40.599 --> 00:54:42.960 people that were more worried about what the other person 980 00:54:43.039 --> 00:54:45.639 was doing and less about what they were doing. 981 00:54:46.159 --> 00:54:48.639 Yeah, it sounds like it's more a few individuals in 982 00:54:48.679 --> 00:54:51.360 each unit rather than an actual unit rivalry. 983 00:54:52.360 --> 00:54:55.119 Yeah, it would probably come and go on a particular deployment. 984 00:54:56.400 --> 00:54:59.800 Who were the big personalities on that deployment on both 985 00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:01.840 side guides and made clash a bit. 986 00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:03.519 Yeah. 987 00:55:03.599 --> 00:55:06.199 And around this timeframe you also did a trip over 988 00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:06.880 to Iraq. 989 00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:08.760 Yeah. 990 00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:11.280 Well, I was in Afghan in two thousand and seven, 991 00:55:12.920 --> 00:55:15.760 which I openly say to most people now, two thousand 992 00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:19.400 and seven was my introduction to war. We we got 993 00:55:19.400 --> 00:55:22.280 shot out a lot, We got into quite a few ticks, 994 00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:26.079 fortunately for me, a big battles, but we got into 995 00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:30.519 quite a few skirmishes, I suppose we we caught and 996 00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:31.599 killed a few bad guys. 997 00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:36.079 But it was mid that two thousand and seven trip that. 998 00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:41.039 I think it was the Defense Minister from Australia was 999 00:55:41.079 --> 00:55:44.679 doing a trip to the what we called THEAO, the 1000 00:55:44.719 --> 00:55:49.679 Middle East Area of Operations, and so they sent two 1001 00:55:49.719 --> 00:55:52.960 of the teams we had to meeting in the Middle 1002 00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:56.679 East flying to Bagdad so he could visit the troops 1003 00:55:56.719 --> 00:55:59.079 I was, the troops that were there, and then fly 1004 00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:01.880 him into Kabok, afghan to visit the Aussie troops there, 1005 00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:05.480 take him back to the Middle East and then get 1006 00:56:05.519 --> 00:56:10.199 back into Afghanistan and recontinue operations. 1007 00:56:10.199 --> 00:56:14.719 So I focused my time. 1008 00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:21.199 For the protective duty in Iraq. But it was pretty simple. 1009 00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:22.400 It was kind of just a bit of an eye 1010 00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:25.199 opener for me. I mean I landed it the by 1011 00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:27.360 app I Court. I think it was the Rhino. They 1012 00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:30.920 had this armored bus that would drive you from the 1013 00:56:31.039 --> 00:56:32.400 airport into the greens Aint. 1014 00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:33.360 Oh yeah. 1015 00:56:33.400 --> 00:56:35.519 We were just talking about this, like maybe on the 1016 00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:38.440 last episode up arms. 1017 00:56:39.800 --> 00:56:41.880 Yeah, we'll wear Ossie's and they're like, hey, we need 1018 00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:44.039 you to go and do some wrekis of the of 1019 00:56:44.159 --> 00:56:48.119 the locations that the Minister wants to visit, the US 1020 00:56:48.159 --> 00:56:50.000 embassy and. 1021 00:56:49.519 --> 00:56:51.079 All this and it's like, oh, yeah, well, how do 1022 00:56:51.159 --> 00:56:52.760 we get in there? I will just catch the bus. 1023 00:56:53.159 --> 00:56:56.400 So we got on the bus and yeah, good old 1024 00:56:56.440 --> 00:56:59.480 as military drove into town. We got off the bus 1025 00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:02.000 at the bus terminal, which I from memory was just 1026 00:57:02.119 --> 00:57:04.760 nearby the US embassy was up the road or something, 1027 00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:08.519 and got morted, which I'd been morted a few times 1028 00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:11.960 in afghan but not standing in the middle of a 1029 00:57:12.440 --> 00:57:14.280 city like that was the bit that I was like, 1030 00:57:14.519 --> 00:57:15.239 this joins. 1031 00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:15.960 A bit of a spin out. 1032 00:57:17.480 --> 00:57:21.480 And there was some contacts nearby or whatever, and morted 1033 00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:27.639 as in my medic who was with me actually had 1034 00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:29.199 to give first aid to someone I think it got 1035 00:57:29.239 --> 00:57:30.039 hit by shrapnel. 1036 00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:35.519 We got moretered in the bus stop. We did that job. 1037 00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:39.199 We had Ossie trainers out on a few little fobs 1038 00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:42.599 around Baghdad, so we literally one obviously had helos when 1039 00:57:42.599 --> 00:57:45.039 the minister came in to fly him around and there 1040 00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:47.079 for a few weeks and then headed back to afghan 1041 00:57:47.119 --> 00:57:48.599 to get back into the war fighting again. 1042 00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:52.000 Yeah, well tell us about going back to Afghanistan. 1043 00:57:54.559 --> 00:58:00.280 Ah, yeah, we we were doing still doing vehicle operations, 1044 00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:04.159 but obviously a lot more kinetic everywhere we went. 1045 00:58:04.199 --> 00:58:06.639 Someone to chewed out us spiders watching us all the time. 1046 00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:09.159 Because you're in cars, it's pretty hard to hide, especially 1047 00:58:09.159 --> 00:58:13.000 in Risgaran, I mean you're driving around deserts, and so 1048 00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:17.719 we would drive down valleys basically put in a vehicle 1049 00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:21.320 layout point sort of in the desert. And back then 1050 00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:23.599 we could still operate at night, so we do night 1051 00:58:23.639 --> 00:58:27.800 patrols through the green zone. Have a lot of good 1052 00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:30.400 effect doing that, catch lots of bad guys moving around 1053 00:58:30.440 --> 00:58:36.039 at night. But yeah, we'd sort of that was our 1054 00:58:36.840 --> 00:58:39.880 how we operated. We'd drive down valleys, you know, from 1055 00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:43.119 point to point, try and be as stealthy as we could. 1056 00:58:43.239 --> 00:58:45.119 It's pretty hard to do because they just as soon 1057 00:58:45.159 --> 00:58:48.480 as they knew were leaving TK, the spiders would just 1058 00:58:48.480 --> 00:58:52.800 follow you whichever direction you went. Try and catch a 1059 00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:55.800 few spots here and there, try and catch the more 1060 00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:00.679 combat the enemy, combat teams any colorition militia I think 1061 00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:03.320 we called them at the time. We're really trying to 1062 00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:06.800 catch those combat teams that were operating in those valleys. 1063 00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:12.199 Yeah, any success doing that was pretty difficult to quote. 1064 00:59:13.119 --> 00:59:17.519 No, absolutely, some of the best success I suppose were 1065 00:59:19.400 --> 00:59:20.760 we'd be moving in valleys and. 1066 00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:24.719 The enemy would think that we were still out with 1067 00:59:24.760 --> 00:59:28.440 our vehicles basically camped out for the night, and so 1068 00:59:28.599 --> 00:59:34.119 they would be starting to move around between villages or 1069 00:59:34.360 --> 00:59:36.800 visit the villagers to ask them. You know, this is 1070 00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:39.719 what I think they were doing. So we could literally 1071 00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:43.000 just go down fully knotted up patrol around. They had 1072 00:59:43.039 --> 00:59:47.719 no night fighting capability. I remember on one occasion we 1073 00:59:47.719 --> 00:59:51.960 were putting a blocking position in for a commando sweep actually, 1074 00:59:52.039 --> 00:59:55.480 which was meant to come early the next day, and 1075 00:59:55.639 --> 00:59:59.719 moving into position that night, we were literally walking past 1076 01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:04.039 fully tooled up bad guys. I mean they the had 1077 01:00:04.119 --> 01:00:07.239 chest rigs and ak's and they were standing around. And 1078 01:00:07.639 --> 01:00:13.480 later that night we got into a good stoush, but 1079 01:00:13.599 --> 01:00:15.400 we were literally trying to move past them to get 1080 01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:19.119 to our blocking position. And it wasn't that far into 1081 01:00:19.119 --> 01:00:22.280 our trip either to be that real kick in the 1082 01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:26.639 guts that the holy cow, there's like, there's a lot 1083 01:00:26.639 --> 01:00:28.400 of bad guys out here. 1084 01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:33.320 And this this stuff is actually really serious. 1085 01:00:34.760 --> 01:00:36.880 Yeah, you must have had some sense that it was 1086 01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:39.599 obviously getting more intense with each deployment. 1087 01:00:40.920 --> 01:00:41.519 Yeah, that was. 1088 01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:46.440 And that was east of Taran Cott, in a place 1089 01:00:46.440 --> 01:00:48.360 called the Mirranbad Valley. There was a lot of fighting 1090 01:00:49.079 --> 01:00:52.519 out that way. That sort of ran from the eastern 1091 01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:57.599 side of Afghan ran into the Uruzgan province, came down past. 1092 01:00:59.239 --> 01:00:59.679 Pardon me. 1093 01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:04.280 The valley sort of started out near Casare's Gharan, which 1094 01:01:04.360 --> 01:01:07.920 was near a fog called Anaconda, which saw a lot 1095 01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:12.519 of fighting. Had an American eight A team there for 1096 01:01:12.559 --> 01:01:15.679 a while, And it was coming back from there that 1097 01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:19.400 I got myself blown up, drove over an Id and 1098 01:01:19.480 --> 01:01:24.320 the next year it was where Mark Donalds and the 1099 01:01:24.320 --> 01:01:27.480 Australian SAS guy won his Victoria Cross in the in 1100 01:01:27.559 --> 01:01:28.559 the ambush where. 1101 01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:30.360 He rescued the interpreter. 1102 01:01:31.880 --> 01:01:34.239 So there was a lot of enemy movement around that 1103 01:01:34.239 --> 01:01:36.159 that valley. The Dutch used to get hit out there 1104 01:01:36.239 --> 01:01:40.360 a lot, and badly. They lost a few blakes out 1105 01:01:40.360 --> 01:01:44.320 there on that deployment I was on in two thousand 1106 01:01:44.320 --> 01:01:47.440 and seven, So a lot of our fighting sort of 1107 01:01:47.519 --> 01:01:52.199 east of tk and north around Shura. We got into 1108 01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:57.960 a few fights north of Tku. And actually just after 1109 01:01:58.039 --> 01:02:00.360 my deployment, I think about a month after that was 1110 01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:04.880 where good mate of mine, Matt Locke got killed in 1111 01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:06.199 a shootout. 1112 01:02:06.760 --> 01:02:08.559 I think that was about October. 1113 01:02:08.079 --> 01:02:10.760 O seven, wow. 1114 01:02:12.639 --> 01:02:15.360 And yeah, lots of fighting we were. 1115 01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:18.800 We were catching bags I mean there was one occasion 1116 01:02:19.599 --> 01:02:23.599 where we literally pulled up in our cars. We'd drive 1117 01:02:23.599 --> 01:02:25.360 off the road. This looks like an area we can 1118 01:02:25.400 --> 01:02:27.199 defend if we need to. We'll stop here and have 1119 01:02:27.320 --> 01:02:33.320 lunch and typical assies, we're pretty security conscious. I suppose 1120 01:02:33.400 --> 01:02:35.000 we thought to ours says, oh, we'll do a patrol 1121 01:02:35.920 --> 01:02:41.079 around our cars once we've we've stopped here, and we 1122 01:02:41.880 --> 01:02:44.079 the road we were on sort of ran down towards 1123 01:02:44.159 --> 01:02:47.960 a river and then did a hard left turn and 1124 01:02:48.039 --> 01:02:51.239 drove sort of along the along the side of the river. 1125 01:02:51.800 --> 01:02:54.960 So we stopped on the approach to this river and 1126 01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:57.000 got out and thought we'd do this bit of a patrol. 1127 01:02:57.079 --> 01:02:59.960 But once we walked sort of fifty to one hundre 1128 01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:04.840 meters away from the car, my lead I was the 1129 01:03:04.880 --> 01:03:08.239 tour I see the patrol for the majority of my 1130 01:03:08.320 --> 01:03:10.760 two thousand and seven trip, the second in charge. We 1131 01:03:10.840 --> 01:03:13.760 had a six man patrol ran out of two vehicles 1132 01:03:13.800 --> 01:03:16.239 to long range patrol vehicles, so we had three guys 1133 01:03:16.239 --> 01:03:16.800 in each. 1134 01:03:18.440 --> 01:03:21.559 And as the too, I see you normal foot movements. 1135 01:03:21.599 --> 01:03:24.840 You stay at the back of the trail, cover the 1136 01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:28.559 rear and make sure no one gets left behind, and 1137 01:03:28.639 --> 01:03:32.159 from the back the lead scout open fire across the river, 1138 01:03:33.280 --> 01:03:35.480 and as soon as he did, I could then look 1139 01:03:35.519 --> 01:03:38.239 up because it was pretty open until you got to 1140 01:03:38.239 --> 01:03:39.719 the other side of the river, and then it was 1141 01:03:39.800 --> 01:03:44.760 kind of classic Afghan orchards and trees and compounds, and 1142 01:03:44.840 --> 01:03:49.239 I could see the two guys sort of returning fire 1143 01:03:49.320 --> 01:03:51.599 but making a run for it, mostly just to sort 1144 01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:56.280 of get away. We cleaned across the river and what 1145 01:03:56.360 --> 01:03:58.559 we found when we got to the other side was 1146 01:03:58.840 --> 01:04:02.280 a massive trench system that they dug. It was kind 1147 01:04:02.280 --> 01:04:07.679 of pretty epic. There was three big, you know, heavy 1148 01:04:07.719 --> 01:04:08.599 weapons pits. 1149 01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:08.840 If you liked. 1150 01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:13.920 They full the overhead protected sand bagged big logs covering 1151 01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:18.239 them up, and it was basically like a perfect in 1152 01:04:18.639 --> 01:04:22.280 trenched ambush position facing. 1153 01:04:22.039 --> 01:04:24.679 Where we'd exactly stopped. 1154 01:04:25.440 --> 01:04:27.559 So if they'd had the fighters on the day, we 1155 01:04:27.559 --> 01:04:30.320 would have got our asses handed to us. But fortunately 1156 01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:34.239 for us, they didn't know we were coming, and unfortunately 1157 01:04:34.280 --> 01:04:36.159 for those two guys, they didn't expect us to get 1158 01:04:36.199 --> 01:04:42.360 out of our cars and clear across the river. But yeah, 1159 01:04:42.360 --> 01:04:45.639 all of a sudden, you're staying one step ahead of 1160 01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:50.840 them because you're doing everything right, but you're doing night 1161 01:04:50.920 --> 01:04:56.239 patrols and you're passing the tooled up bad guys. You're 1162 01:04:56.239 --> 01:05:00.320 catching blokes off guard at night because you know, your 1163 01:05:00.519 --> 01:05:03.360 technology is just better and your tactics are just better. 1164 01:05:03.880 --> 01:05:05.400 You're better trained, you've got better. 1165 01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:10.719 Gear, and then during the daytime you're clearing through entrenched areas. 1166 01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:12.800 I mean it's. 1167 01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:17.400 From before that, from sort of my East team all 1168 01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:20.400 time and a lot of training in an infantry pertained 1169 01:05:21.400 --> 01:05:22.960 you get to the point where you're like, holy cow, 1170 01:05:23.000 --> 01:05:26.880 this is actually really serious and even if you do 1171 01:05:27.039 --> 01:05:29.519 everything right, you can still come unstuck one day, just 1172 01:05:29.559 --> 01:05:34.119 through she bad luck. Yeah, and that's the life we chose. 1173 01:05:34.159 --> 01:05:35.000 To live, I suppose. 1174 01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:38.719 And it sounds like after that you guys were feeling 1175 01:05:38.840 --> 01:05:41.079 more of kind of like a straight counter terrorism roar. 1176 01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:46.079 Yeah, that was a weird blend between still sort of 1177 01:05:46.119 --> 01:05:49.320 doing reconnaissance affair bit but trying to be as kinetic 1178 01:05:49.320 --> 01:05:49.719 as we can. 1179 01:05:49.800 --> 01:05:54.480 We're still trying to. 1180 01:05:52.519 --> 01:05:56.760 Degrade the anti coalition malicious capability. We're really trying to 1181 01:05:56.840 --> 01:05:59.639 put the pressure on them so that the military behind 1182 01:05:59.719 --> 01:06:05.840 us can get in and fixed stuff. That My deployment 1183 01:06:05.960 --> 01:06:07.960 ended when I drove over an I D and it 1184 01:06:08.039 --> 01:06:11.920 was up at that five anaicondas, so the American team 1185 01:06:11.960 --> 01:06:16.039 that was based there. Literally I don't know how they 1186 01:06:16.400 --> 01:06:19.960 word got through, but they sent word down to the Assies, Hey, 1187 01:06:20.039 --> 01:06:21.840 can anyone come up and give us a hand. 1188 01:06:21.880 --> 01:06:25.239 We're having a really tough month. 1189 01:06:26.039 --> 01:06:30.360 And they were basically just getting shot at every second day, 1190 01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:35.360 whether it was sort of direct weapons, rockets, machine guns. 1191 01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:39.360 They actually, on I think a couple of occasions, the 1192 01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:44.039 enemy put in frontal assaults on their on their compound, 1193 01:06:44.119 --> 01:06:48.599 which was a bit of you go from that mindset 1194 01:06:48.639 --> 01:06:52.079 where we're chasing one, one and two bad guys around 1195 01:06:52.079 --> 01:06:55.719 a paddock to getting to the end of towards the 1196 01:06:55.800 --> 01:06:58.119 end of your trip and the enemy are actually massing 1197 01:06:58.159 --> 01:07:03.519 in numbers to overrun outposts. It's like, yeah, this is 1198 01:07:03.679 --> 01:07:08.039 it's not getting it's not getting better. So we actually 1199 01:07:08.079 --> 01:07:12.159 went up to do some you know, disruption operations around 1200 01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:14.320 Casarus Garden the valleys around it. 1201 01:07:14.760 --> 01:07:16.079 A lot of bad guys up there. 1202 01:07:16.559 --> 01:07:19.039 We drove round in our cars, which they literally couldn't do. 1203 01:07:19.840 --> 01:07:26.519 Six months later, pushed the enemy back. Commandos came up 1204 01:07:26.559 --> 01:07:29.320 and did a massive sweep through and they got into 1205 01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:33.840 a few big gun shootouts as well up there. But 1206 01:07:33.920 --> 01:07:36.480 it was on the way back from that operation that 1207 01:07:37.960 --> 01:07:41.480 that I drove over the I D and it was 1208 01:07:41.559 --> 01:07:49.639 really again trying to maneuver around the battlefield with cars 1209 01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:55.679 in an environment that's super difficult to maneuver around. When 1210 01:07:55.719 --> 01:08:00.519 we left, I'll tell the story if you like it quickly. 1211 01:08:00.760 --> 01:08:05.119 We left the fob after a couple of weeks to 1212 01:08:05.199 --> 01:08:05.760 head back. 1213 01:08:05.639 --> 01:08:07.400 To Tarran count The only way we could get back 1214 01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:10.760 is drive our cars back, and there's actually. 1215 01:08:10.559 --> 01:08:11.559 Only two roads back. 1216 01:08:12.079 --> 01:08:16.319 One you drive straight down the valley to TK, down 1217 01:08:16.359 --> 01:08:18.600 that mir and Bad valley to get back, or you 1218 01:08:18.880 --> 01:08:23.359 drive sort of north, go over the mountain range into 1219 01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:26.239 the Chora area and then come back into TK from 1220 01:08:26.239 --> 01:08:26.600 the north. 1221 01:08:28.479 --> 01:08:29.960 We had two call signs up there. 1222 01:08:30.439 --> 01:08:33.119 The commandos had their company up there as well, and 1223 01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:35.720 obviously they'd been doing a fair bit of fighting over 1224 01:08:35.720 --> 01:08:38.079 the last few days as well, and they got into 1225 01:08:38.119 --> 01:08:41.600 a few ticks on the way back also. But as 1226 01:08:41.680 --> 01:08:44.199 the SAS troop, we went, well we'll take them. We'll 1227 01:08:44.199 --> 01:08:48.439 take the northern route, go over the mountains. I didn't 1228 01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:54.319 want to just drive out of the fob, noting that 1229 01:08:54.359 --> 01:08:56.000 they could be putting id's in the road. 1230 01:08:56.239 --> 01:08:57.800 We had to go through the town center. 1231 01:08:58.239 --> 01:09:00.800 That's pretty dangerous, so we patrolled on foot for twenty 1232 01:09:00.960 --> 01:09:06.760 for about twelve hours prior through the night, just my team, 1233 01:09:07.039 --> 01:09:09.720 and by this stage as well, my team leader had 1234 01:09:09.720 --> 01:09:12.920 injured his back and so he'd been he'd gone out 1235 01:09:12.920 --> 01:09:15.560 of the field, and I just basically got a field 1236 01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:20.279 promotion to team leader, got another guy to fill in, 1237 01:09:20.720 --> 01:09:22.920 so he still had a six man team, but got 1238 01:09:22.920 --> 01:09:24.640 a field promotion, and I've been the team leader I 1239 01:09:24.720 --> 01:09:30.359 suppose maybe three or four weeks. We patrolled through that 1240 01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:35.039 town that night, seemed all pretty clear. The vehicles drove 1241 01:09:35.119 --> 01:09:41.279 down and married up with us the next morning, and 1242 01:09:41.520 --> 01:09:43.880 our major tactic for the day, I suppose, was just 1243 01:09:43.960 --> 01:09:46.359 go as quick as we can. If we can get 1244 01:09:46.399 --> 01:09:50.000 over the mountain range before the enemy can know which 1245 01:09:50.039 --> 01:09:54.199 way we're going and react, we've got our best chance 1246 01:09:54.239 --> 01:09:56.880 of getting back into the next valley where you don't 1247 01:09:57.319 --> 01:09:58.119 need to drive. 1248 01:09:57.920 --> 01:10:01.600 On roads any longer. Well, that sort of mid that morning, 1249 01:10:02.199 --> 01:10:02.800 we got. 1250 01:10:02.600 --> 01:10:06.520 A message from headquarters saying that there was an enemy 1251 01:10:06.520 --> 01:10:09.520 commander in a particular village that we were going to 1252 01:10:09.520 --> 01:10:15.079 be driving past, and so we stopped nearby, put out 1253 01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:18.800 fire support teams on the high ground, and in one 1254 01:10:18.840 --> 01:10:21.920 of the patrols went down into that village to try 1255 01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:27.560 and locate this target that was down there. They messed 1256 01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:31.399 around for a few hours, couldn't find him. But we 1257 01:10:31.520 --> 01:10:35.279 kind of knew that something was up because there were 1258 01:10:35.319 --> 01:10:39.000 spots everywhere. You could see them. They might be sort 1259 01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:41.119 of out of range of your even your heavy weapons, 1260 01:10:41.119 --> 01:10:44.960 but you could see them. But then by the time 1261 01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:47.079 we jumped back in our cars to drive over the 1262 01:10:47.119 --> 01:10:51.079 mountain range, it was now running into early afternoons, so 1263 01:10:52.000 --> 01:10:54.760 we kind of shot ourselves in the foot for the 1264 01:10:55.199 --> 01:10:55.760 let's get. 1265 01:10:55.600 --> 01:10:56.560 Out as quick as we can. 1266 01:11:00.079 --> 01:11:03.920 And to compound our problems that day, we actually blew 1267 01:11:04.239 --> 01:11:07.000 some CV joints in our vehicles, so we had two 1268 01:11:07.119 --> 01:11:09.319 vehicles break down, which we had to fix on top 1269 01:11:09.319 --> 01:11:09.880 of the mountain. 1270 01:11:10.880 --> 01:11:12.159 We could fix them. 1271 01:11:12.359 --> 01:11:15.199 By either replacing the CV or just taking it out 1272 01:11:15.359 --> 01:11:19.279 and not using six will drive anymore, but it's obviously 1273 01:11:19.319 --> 01:11:22.560 time consuming to do it. When we're on top of 1274 01:11:22.560 --> 01:11:26.359 the mountain fixing the cars, I said to the boss, 1275 01:11:26.560 --> 01:11:32.159 the troop commander of the troop, I'll take my team 1276 01:11:32.199 --> 01:11:35.920 forward and I'll try and clear down this valley, this 1277 01:11:36.079 --> 01:11:39.319 really thin valley we've got to drive through, because that'll 1278 01:11:40.720 --> 01:11:43.600 deny the enemy of the use of the ground. Obviously, 1279 01:11:43.640 --> 01:11:45.199 we want to get to the next valley where we 1280 01:11:45.239 --> 01:11:51.119 can maneuver and not take that predictable route. I drove 1281 01:11:51.199 --> 01:11:56.359 down the valley as. 1282 01:11:54.439 --> 01:11:55.600 Far as I could sort of go. 1283 01:11:55.680 --> 01:11:57.159 The boss had given me a bit of a control 1284 01:11:57.199 --> 01:11:59.359 measure in the fact that he sort of said, don't 1285 01:11:59.399 --> 01:12:02.359 go any further than this grid point. And so I 1286 01:12:02.399 --> 01:12:04.680 got to what I thought was that grid point and 1287 01:12:04.800 --> 01:12:06.920 the sort of high ground both sides. I was on 1288 01:12:06.960 --> 01:12:08.319 a bit of a flat bit with a creek, and 1289 01:12:08.319 --> 01:12:11.000 it was only about one hundred meters wide, I think. 1290 01:12:12.159 --> 01:12:15.399 And we waited there for a few minutes. 1291 01:12:15.880 --> 01:12:19.439 But what happened was a guy came walking out of 1292 01:12:19.479 --> 01:12:22.720 dead ground on the road we were on, walking towards us, 1293 01:12:23.760 --> 01:12:28.279 and straight away he looked really really suss He's actually 1294 01:12:28.319 --> 01:12:32.399 carrying like this box looked like a cardboard. 1295 01:12:31.960 --> 01:12:33.800 Box, maybe twice the size of a shoe box. 1296 01:12:33.800 --> 01:12:38.359 And he's walking right towards us, and we're sitting there 1297 01:12:38.439 --> 01:12:40.680 quietly watching him, and then he sort of gets to 1298 01:12:40.960 --> 01:12:43.319 sort of about that forty or fifty meters away and 1299 01:12:43.359 --> 01:12:46.640 he looks up, and it was amusing in the fact 1300 01:12:46.680 --> 01:12:53.079 that he was so surprised to see us. He sort 1301 01:12:53.079 --> 01:12:55.279 of put the box on the ground and looked to 1302 01:12:55.319 --> 01:12:57.079 me like he was pretending to do his shoes up. 1303 01:12:57.079 --> 01:13:00.079 But that was weird because they don't wear lasers and 1304 01:13:00.079 --> 01:13:02.560 their shoes. They all have to slip on shoes. He 1305 01:13:02.600 --> 01:13:05.920 then he then picked that box back up to the 1306 01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:08.680 left turn and tried to high tail it out of there, 1307 01:13:09.720 --> 01:13:11.560 just get away. And so I turned to the driver 1308 01:13:11.600 --> 01:13:14.600 and said, let's drive over there and pick him up. 1309 01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:16.159 He was still on sort of the flat ground, and 1310 01:13:16.199 --> 01:13:19.039 we started the car up and went to drive forward, 1311 01:13:19.119 --> 01:13:22.920 and that's where the next thing I remember was just 1312 01:13:23.039 --> 01:13:25.079 being being englf by the dust. 1313 01:13:26.239 --> 01:13:27.319 Don't remember the bang. 1314 01:13:30.159 --> 01:13:32.359 Your senses are all shutting down, but I didn't go 1315 01:13:32.439 --> 01:13:38.199 unconscious at any point, and I can still like really 1316 01:13:38.600 --> 01:13:43.760 imprinted on my mind the moment of the Everything was great. 1317 01:13:44.600 --> 01:13:46.800 And then the next thing I can remember is I 1318 01:13:46.840 --> 01:13:49.119 was looking back at and I could see the vehicle 1319 01:13:49.479 --> 01:13:51.920 and because we didn't have roofs on our LRPV, so 1320 01:13:51.960 --> 01:13:55.840 I'd been ejected out and thrown and I think I 1321 01:13:55.880 --> 01:13:59.600 was still airborne, and our cars were fully loaded with 1322 01:13:59.680 --> 01:14:02.039 am and water and everything. They were about seven ton 1323 01:14:02.199 --> 01:14:04.880 bit over seven ton probably, and I can remember seeing 1324 01:14:04.880 --> 01:14:08.960 it off the ground a couple of meters off the ground, 1325 01:14:09.680 --> 01:14:11.279 so that was a bit of a bit of a 1326 01:14:11.279 --> 01:14:14.760 spin out. I landed maybe ten or fifteen meters. 1327 01:14:14.520 --> 01:14:16.479 From the car. I went to get up and I 1328 01:14:16.479 --> 01:14:17.439 couldn't fill my legs. 1329 01:14:19.319 --> 01:14:22.319 My first thought, and lots of people probably have had 1330 01:14:22.359 --> 01:14:25.359 it in the been in the same situation, is I 1331 01:14:25.399 --> 01:14:25.880 need a gun. 1332 01:14:25.960 --> 01:14:27.399 I need my gun to defend myself. 1333 01:14:27.439 --> 01:14:30.079 And I look back at the LRPV, which was now 1334 01:14:31.439 --> 01:14:35.359 sort of resting on the road, all the fuels emptying 1335 01:14:35.399 --> 01:14:38.119 out of it down the hill towards me. It's a 1336 01:14:38.119 --> 01:14:40.279 bit of a mess. But my M four was sort 1337 01:14:40.279 --> 01:14:42.319 of on the ground near the car. I could see it, 1338 01:14:42.960 --> 01:14:45.560 but I couldn't get up to get it. And it 1339 01:14:45.640 --> 01:14:47.800 was kind of at that point I remember my teammates 1340 01:14:47.840 --> 01:14:50.159 from the vehicle behind running past. 1341 01:14:50.279 --> 01:14:53.880 They were putting out security. 1342 01:14:53.399 --> 01:14:56.239 On the hills and made it come and got me 1343 01:14:56.279 --> 01:15:00.359 and the driver and I were flown out back to 1344 01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:06.079 TK first, but then down to Canahart. I made a 1345 01:15:06.079 --> 01:15:08.119 pretty good recovery after it. 1346 01:15:08.159 --> 01:15:08.359 All. 1347 01:15:08.840 --> 01:15:12.520 The doctors, the American doctors in Canadheart told me that 1348 01:15:12.600 --> 01:15:16.520 it's just the shockwave passing through your body causes a 1349 01:15:16.560 --> 01:15:20.640 lot of swelling yeah, and it's that swelling that was 1350 01:15:20.720 --> 01:15:27.840 restricting sort of movement a lot. And so yeah, thirty 1351 01:15:27.840 --> 01:15:30.760 six hours later I was hobbling out of the hospital 1352 01:15:30.760 --> 01:15:35.880 on crutches. I suppose to start the rehab. But it 1353 01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:37.880 wasn't the only idea you had. In the road that day, 1354 01:15:37.920 --> 01:15:41.359 we lost an explosing detection dog or the troop as 1355 01:15:41.399 --> 01:15:44.279 they continued down the valley lost an explosing detection dog 1356 01:15:45.560 --> 01:15:48.760 shortly after that as well, Ras that was killed in 1357 01:15:49.399 --> 01:15:50.279 September A seven. 1358 01:15:50.399 --> 01:15:55.079 Yeah, I mean, it's pretty incredible that you got ballown 1359 01:15:55.119 --> 01:15:57.880 out of the vehicle like that, but we're more or 1360 01:15:58.000 --> 01:16:01.560 less okay. I mean I wouldn't obviously not uninjured, but 1361 01:16:01.600 --> 01:16:04.039 I mean when you've described it as like it sounds 1362 01:16:04.079 --> 01:16:06.039 like you lost your legs or something, I mean. 1363 01:16:07.560 --> 01:16:10.079 Yeah, now I'm pretty good now. I mean I've still 1364 01:16:10.119 --> 01:16:12.439 got a few injuries. I've got a few injuries that 1365 01:16:14.760 --> 01:16:16.000 have troubled me since. 1366 01:16:16.000 --> 01:16:19.000 Like disks and stuff and the vertebrae. 1367 01:16:18.680 --> 01:16:21.359 Dodgy dodgy back and knees. I have joint trouble with 1368 01:16:21.399 --> 01:16:24.760 my joints, so I think, and more than a fifty 1369 01:16:24.840 --> 01:16:27.960 year old should. And I think it's probably from that 1370 01:16:28.800 --> 01:16:32.840 shop big shockwave. You know, it's just degrading your body 1371 01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:36.560 faster than it should be. But yeah, it was it. Yeah, 1372 01:16:36.640 --> 01:16:40.239 it was probably that ID. It was pretty big. Could 1373 01:16:40.239 --> 01:16:41.920 have been the years of m as well, could have 1374 01:16:41.920 --> 01:16:45.399 been could have been all the Barrett fifty cow FID 1375 01:16:45.439 --> 01:16:47.039 who knows. 1376 01:16:47.720 --> 01:16:51.479 So rehab, I mean you're still a part of the 1377 01:16:51.640 --> 01:16:54.159 essays going through this rehab process. 1378 01:16:54.600 --> 01:16:54.800 Yeah. 1379 01:16:54.960 --> 01:16:56.960 They flew me back to Australia. I think I had 1380 01:16:57.119 --> 01:17:02.800 maybe two months of full sick stay home and rest up. 1381 01:17:03.119 --> 01:17:03.560 I mean up. 1382 01:17:03.560 --> 01:17:06.319 My body was purple, which was I had no shrapnel injuries, 1383 01:17:06.359 --> 01:17:08.720 which was great, but my body was purple. 1384 01:17:08.640 --> 01:17:11.159 Just from that I all the way around. 1385 01:17:11.920 --> 01:17:16.600 Oh no, it was more internal bleeding was superficial. Yeah, 1386 01:17:16.640 --> 01:17:20.920 it was just bruising and you know once that went down, 1387 01:17:21.560 --> 01:17:23.920 I mean I laid it on the couch for two weeks, 1388 01:17:23.920 --> 01:17:26.840 I couldn't do anything. But I just literally went home. 1389 01:17:27.039 --> 01:17:29.359 So I didn't go back to the unit at all much. 1390 01:17:30.239 --> 01:17:33.159 It was maybe about two months. I then reported back 1391 01:17:33.199 --> 01:17:38.279 to the docks. They took more m morphine tablets off 1392 01:17:38.319 --> 01:17:41.319 me and I hit the gym and the pool and 1393 01:17:41.479 --> 01:17:45.119 went to the pool, went to the phisier, told everyone 1394 01:17:45.119 --> 01:17:45.520 I was good. 1395 01:17:45.520 --> 01:17:46.119 To go and. 1396 01:17:47.800 --> 01:17:50.600 Redeployed back to Afghanistan. I think about four months later, 1397 01:17:51.960 --> 01:17:55.039 four or five months later. I mean, to be honest, 1398 01:17:55.039 --> 01:18:00.520 I wasn't good to go, but you know, I wanted 1399 01:18:00.520 --> 01:18:02.279 to get back into fight and go back and help 1400 01:18:02.359 --> 01:18:04.560 my mates out. My squadron was going back the next year, 1401 01:18:05.399 --> 01:18:07.880 and the next year. I didn't do a kinetic war 1402 01:18:07.920 --> 01:18:10.439 fighting deployment. I did a deployment that was a lot 1403 01:18:10.479 --> 01:18:16.640 more orientated around intelligence and reconnaissance work and stuff like that. 1404 01:18:16.800 --> 01:18:19.560 So it was a kind of a job that I thought, yeah, 1405 01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:20.720 I can do this. 1406 01:18:21.640 --> 01:18:25.279 Yeah, no, that's pretty cool that they helped you facilitate that. 1407 01:18:27.600 --> 01:18:27.960 Tell us. 1408 01:18:28.079 --> 01:18:32.119 Let's get into like it sounds like maybe the final 1409 01:18:32.159 --> 01:18:36.760 deployments you had in Afghanistan it was more doing high 1410 01:18:36.800 --> 01:18:38.560 value target strikes. 1411 01:18:39.039 --> 01:18:42.079 Yeah. Yeah, and hugely different too. 1412 01:18:42.119 --> 01:18:45.439 I mean from two thousand and two driving rounding cars 1413 01:18:45.760 --> 01:18:50.319 with not much action two thousand and seven lots of 1414 01:18:50.359 --> 01:18:54.880 action driving rounding cars. It evolved a lot while I 1415 01:18:54.960 --> 01:18:58.760 wasn't there. The Americans basically said, hey, we'll put on 1416 01:18:58.920 --> 01:19:06.399 helos for you to really target the enemy leadership, which 1417 01:19:06.439 --> 01:19:10.600 was what we did. A lot more of the rules 1418 01:19:10.680 --> 01:19:13.279 it crept in as well, you know, you couldn't do 1419 01:19:13.840 --> 01:19:17.359 night operations or you needed super high level approvals to 1420 01:19:17.439 --> 01:19:23.600 do them. They were almost impossible. Partnering force ratios were 1421 01:19:23.640 --> 01:19:28.119 quite high, but we had helos and we would literally 1422 01:19:29.560 --> 01:19:32.279 we also had we had helos. We also had a 1423 01:19:32.279 --> 01:19:33.800 lot of other assets that we didn't have in two 1424 01:19:33.840 --> 01:19:36.279 thousand and seven as well, so we were able to 1425 01:19:36.399 --> 01:19:38.600 use a lot of the ICE and R platforms to 1426 01:19:38.680 --> 01:19:42.520 do our targeting, which made it a lot more effective 1427 01:19:44.079 --> 01:19:48.279 to watch areas before we launched on them and things 1428 01:19:48.359 --> 01:19:51.760 like that. Nine times out of ten we were able 1429 01:19:51.800 --> 01:19:56.119 to go, yeah, that's abnormal activity. There's too many guys 1430 01:19:56.119 --> 01:19:59.359 in that town with guns at the moment. We'll launch 1431 01:19:59.359 --> 01:20:01.199 on that and try catch objective whoever. 1432 01:20:03.159 --> 01:20:04.119 We had a few. 1433 01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:09.279 Full sas teams there, which was hugely important. But with 1434 01:20:09.439 --> 01:20:13.800 the high partnering ratio, we had a couple of different 1435 01:20:13.840 --> 01:20:16.760 partnering forces that we would work with depending on what 1436 01:20:16.880 --> 01:20:20.960 locations the target was in, and it was my job 1437 01:20:21.000 --> 01:20:25.720 on that trip to mentor the partnering forces. As it 1438 01:20:25.800 --> 01:20:29.920 turned out, I. 1439 01:20:28.600 --> 01:20:30.640 Spent the majority of my trip. 1440 01:20:32.479 --> 01:20:37.319 Working with one as much as I could, But yeah, 1441 01:20:38.239 --> 01:20:40.600 didn't stay in the field overnight. 1442 01:20:40.720 --> 01:20:44.479 I don't think we would have the heroes on. We 1443 01:20:44.520 --> 01:20:46.079 would launch, you. 1444 01:20:46.039 --> 01:20:51.760 Know, develop in the morning respectable times, jump out about 1445 01:20:51.760 --> 01:20:55.680 at Revaley at six o'clock and grab a feed and 1446 01:20:56.159 --> 01:20:59.239 take it to the ops room and start watching the 1447 01:20:59.239 --> 01:21:01.640 feeds and see what targets are in the area and. 1448 01:21:04.439 --> 01:21:05.840 Maybe there was one that was hot. 1449 01:21:05.880 --> 01:21:08.319 You might launch at eight seven or eight in the morning, 1450 01:21:08.399 --> 01:21:10.640 or maybe you might watch one for a while and 1451 01:21:10.680 --> 01:21:14.640 launch about ten, get to a shootout, catch a bad guy, 1452 01:21:15.760 --> 01:21:17.279 and generally be home by four or five. 1453 01:21:17.479 --> 01:21:18.760 So it was very respectable. 1454 01:21:18.840 --> 01:21:21.800 What was the partner for us that you worked with 1455 01:21:21.840 --> 01:21:22.560 most of the time. 1456 01:21:25.920 --> 01:21:27.840 The one that I liked working with with the NDS 1457 01:21:27.960 --> 01:21:29.960 guys from from up north. 1458 01:21:30.279 --> 01:21:31.840 Yeah, they were. 1459 01:21:33.359 --> 01:21:37.079 I found the ones that I worked with were hugely courageous, 1460 01:21:37.960 --> 01:21:41.520 they were pretty well disciplined, and they were hugely open 1461 01:21:41.600 --> 01:21:43.199 to train as well. So we could do a lot 1462 01:21:43.199 --> 01:21:47.720 of you know, compound clearance rehearsals, and we had a 1463 01:21:47.760 --> 01:21:52.000 training facility within the wire at t K near the range, 1464 01:21:52.039 --> 01:21:54.359 and so we could go out there and rehearse and 1465 01:21:54.399 --> 01:21:55.039 train and. 1466 01:21:57.560 --> 01:21:58.079 They were good. 1467 01:21:58.079 --> 01:21:59.800 They were great to work with, to the point where 1468 01:21:59.840 --> 01:22:01.239 I go with them by myself. 1469 01:22:01.520 --> 01:22:03.520 I mean it's it's really weird. 1470 01:22:03.279 --> 01:22:05.279 To get into a shootout with guys you can't talk to, 1471 01:22:06.119 --> 01:22:09.760 because the terms that we that I used were literally 1472 01:22:09.800 --> 01:22:13.600 civilian contractors, and so they'd come on the hits with us, 1473 01:22:13.600 --> 01:22:15.520 but they wouldn't be keen to be up the front 1474 01:22:15.520 --> 01:22:20.279 with me. But I'd be up the front with with 1475 01:22:20.359 --> 01:22:25.319 the guys a lot of them. A lot of the 1476 01:22:25.399 --> 01:22:30.920 target buildings we'd send the teams in two two sort 1477 01:22:30.960 --> 01:22:34.960 of try and find the HVT that we're after. So 1478 01:22:35.640 --> 01:22:38.079 a lot of the time when I was hitting the target, 1479 01:22:38.199 --> 01:22:42.840 i'd be assisting with cordons or sweeping less priority areas. 1480 01:22:43.279 --> 01:22:48.960 But I suppose we found or I found even. 1481 01:22:48.800 --> 01:22:53.039 Just with the Afghans that I was working with, especially 1482 01:22:53.039 --> 01:22:55.079 the ones that I trusted that i'd go by myself with, 1483 01:22:55.119 --> 01:22:58.920 they'd be that'd be always if there's a h VT there, 1484 01:22:58.920 --> 01:23:01.600 there's always security them and they're never in the same building. 1485 01:23:01.640 --> 01:23:04.840 They're always out and around in those other buildings or 1486 01:23:04.840 --> 01:23:07.199 creek lines or or. 1487 01:23:07.159 --> 01:23:11.359 Something like that. So a lot of the shootouts skirmishes 1488 01:23:11.399 --> 01:23:12.520 that we had were. 1489 01:23:14.279 --> 01:23:20.319 Around those target buildings, whereas the actual teams of operators 1490 01:23:20.319 --> 01:23:23.319 that were clearing those we got into the bulk of 1491 01:23:23.840 --> 01:23:24.800 the combat. 1492 01:23:25.600 --> 01:23:29.199 Are there any particular operations from that last deployment that 1493 01:23:29.479 --> 01:23:30.439 kind of stand out for you. 1494 01:23:35.439 --> 01:23:37.600 I had an interesting little day. 1495 01:23:37.840 --> 01:23:40.319 I wrote a short book, and I had an interesting 1496 01:23:40.680 --> 01:23:41.279 little day. 1497 01:23:41.520 --> 01:23:43.039 One in particular where. 1498 01:23:44.640 --> 01:23:48.159 We landed and there was a bit of random, sporadic 1499 01:23:48.159 --> 01:23:52.640 shooting from sort of the center of the assault force 1500 01:23:52.760 --> 01:23:55.720 moving into the target area. 1501 01:23:55.920 --> 01:23:57.760 I didn't think much of it. It was literally a couple 1502 01:23:57.760 --> 01:23:58.279 of rounds. 1503 01:23:59.640 --> 01:24:02.920 But then after we cleared our sort of non priority area, 1504 01:24:03.239 --> 01:24:08.720 one of my afghans come and grabbed me, Mark, Mark, 1505 01:24:08.760 --> 01:24:11.479 come with me, which I was happy to do. 1506 01:24:11.600 --> 01:24:14.079 I mean, I trusted the guy. He was a good 1507 01:24:14.079 --> 01:24:14.840 little operator. 1508 01:24:15.520 --> 01:24:19.199 But he then dragged me a long way away from 1509 01:24:19.199 --> 01:24:21.399 the troop to the point where I was sort of 1510 01:24:21.439 --> 01:24:23.680 starting to get nervous. Mate, we need to cut this 1511 01:24:23.800 --> 01:24:26.800 here and head back. We're getting too far away. And 1512 01:24:26.800 --> 01:24:28.640 then all of a sudden I arrived at the compound. 1513 01:24:29.079 --> 01:24:35.039 And I would normally operate with about ten ten guys, 1514 01:24:35.479 --> 01:24:37.199 got to that compound and there was a couple of 1515 01:24:37.279 --> 01:24:39.800 other guys standing out the front and they're like, go in, 1516 01:24:39.920 --> 01:24:43.159 go in, and so I'm like, all right, yay. So 1517 01:24:43.319 --> 01:24:47.520 I'm now in clearing this compound by myself with one Afghan. 1518 01:24:47.600 --> 01:24:51.119 But what occurred was I got in there and there 1519 01:24:51.159 --> 01:24:56.039 was a Sivkas in there who was actually still no 1520 01:24:56.079 --> 01:24:58.199 one had done any first aid on him. 1521 01:24:58.199 --> 01:25:00.840 He was actually still bleeding out, and. 1522 01:25:02.399 --> 01:25:05.079 I actually reckon it was probably an ak that he'd 1523 01:25:05.079 --> 01:25:07.520 been hit by, because there was a massive hole in 1524 01:25:07.560 --> 01:25:10.000 his leg, but who knows. 1525 01:25:09.920 --> 01:25:11.359 Could have been a ricochet, could have been anything. 1526 01:25:12.920 --> 01:25:18.880 I patched him up and got the medic over, sort 1527 01:25:18.920 --> 01:25:22.119 of thinking to myself, this is like a bit of 1528 01:25:22.159 --> 01:25:24.479 a big day already, and it's not even a big day. 1529 01:25:27.239 --> 01:25:29.119 We then got into another. 1530 01:25:30.680 --> 01:25:35.960 Small shootout again just after that, where we lost Facts, 1531 01:25:36.000 --> 01:25:39.800 one of our TAC dogs, the handler, and the handlers offside, 1532 01:25:39.800 --> 01:25:44.000 I had to assault a creek line and Facts got 1533 01:25:44.119 --> 01:25:44.760 killed as well. 1534 01:25:44.800 --> 01:25:48.520 So that one stood out to me as well. 1535 01:25:48.560 --> 01:25:52.079 I mean, some guys talk about post traumatic traumatic stress 1536 01:25:52.119 --> 01:25:55.079 a lot, and. 1537 01:25:55.079 --> 01:25:57.079 I've shared that story a bit. 1538 01:25:57.199 --> 01:26:01.640 I mean, I don't think I suffer hugely from PTSD, 1539 01:26:02.319 --> 01:26:05.479 but I actually had a reoccurring dream after that job 1540 01:26:06.159 --> 01:26:07.880 that when I went into that room it was my 1541 01:26:08.000 --> 01:26:10.239 son that had been hit. They were about the same 1542 01:26:10.680 --> 01:26:16.119 They are about the same age. I mean, I don't know, 1543 01:26:16.119 --> 01:26:18.680 it's that warfare. It says you have some big days 1544 01:26:18.720 --> 01:26:20.800 that you take a while to get over. 1545 01:26:20.920 --> 01:26:22.319 That one took me a while to get over. 1546 01:26:22.880 --> 01:26:24.279 Yeah, understandable. 1547 01:26:25.920 --> 01:26:28.760 So let's start to talk a little bit about sort 1548 01:26:28.800 --> 01:26:32.000 of your exit from the Australian military. You continued working 1549 01:26:32.000 --> 01:26:35.079 for the Australian government for a while, but was this 1550 01:26:35.279 --> 01:26:38.520 just your natural retirement point at what was kind of 1551 01:26:38.520 --> 01:26:41.039 the auspices under which you got out. 1552 01:26:42.279 --> 01:26:49.199 Yeah, I'm really odd in this respect, even amongst sas guys, 1553 01:26:49.199 --> 01:26:51.199 I'm a bit of a bit of a rarity. So 1554 01:26:51.239 --> 01:26:54.399 I actually discharged from the regular Army in two thousand 1555 01:26:54.439 --> 01:27:00.199 and nine after I did that one deployment, after I 1556 01:27:00.239 --> 01:27:03.159 got blown up, and I was sort of in that 1557 01:27:03.279 --> 01:27:05.439 mid two thousand and nine, I was going, I'm not 1558 01:27:05.720 --> 01:27:09.560 really healing up real quick. My back's still dodgy. I 1559 01:27:09.680 --> 01:27:14.439 might get out and do something else. Maybe my time's up. 1560 01:27:15.079 --> 01:27:18.960 And so I kind of discharged. But in hindsight, I 1561 01:27:19.000 --> 01:27:21.279 wasn't ready to get out mentally, I don't think like 1562 01:27:21.479 --> 01:27:24.960 as soon as I discharged from the regular military, but 1563 01:27:25.039 --> 01:27:29.399 stayed in our Army reserve, and because I had a 1564 01:27:29.399 --> 01:27:33.319 lot of instructor qualifications, the essays would keep me as 1565 01:27:33.359 --> 01:27:36.640 an army reserve just to go back and help on 1566 01:27:36.680 --> 01:27:40.159 the selection course or help on a demolitions course or 1567 01:27:40.199 --> 01:27:41.680 a shooting course or something like that. 1568 01:27:41.760 --> 01:27:45.199 So they just kept me in their pool of reserve guys. 1569 01:27:46.600 --> 01:27:49.439 And I went to the Australian Embassy in Kabul and 1570 01:27:49.840 --> 01:27:52.880 worked as a security contractor at the embassy, which. 1571 01:27:54.399 --> 01:27:56.640 Had a hugely interesting eighteen months. 1572 01:27:56.720 --> 01:28:03.520 I loved it, the difference from military to contracting in 1573 01:28:03.560 --> 01:28:06.079 the fact that you now have got You've no longer 1574 01:28:06.119 --> 01:28:09.479 got this rule book to keep you safe. You can 1575 01:28:09.479 --> 01:28:11.960 make as many bad decisions as you like as a 1576 01:28:11.960 --> 01:28:16.000 civilian contractor, and you're the person that's going to suffer 1577 01:28:16.039 --> 01:28:18.239 if you get it wrong. And you have also then, 1578 01:28:18.279 --> 01:28:23.199 obviously the added pressure that this person that you're looking 1579 01:28:23.239 --> 01:28:26.600 after nine times out of ten has no idea the 1580 01:28:26.720 --> 01:28:30.199 dangers that they're in day to day wandering the streets 1581 01:28:30.199 --> 01:28:35.920 of cable, So you have this challenge of reeling them 1582 01:28:35.920 --> 01:28:38.479 in whilst letting them do as much as they want to, 1583 01:28:38.520 --> 01:28:39.279 but keeping them. 1584 01:28:39.199 --> 01:28:40.039 Safe while they do it. 1585 01:28:41.079 --> 01:28:43.720 So I definitely enjoyed that to begin with, but it 1586 01:28:43.800 --> 01:28:50.720 was sort of that twenty eleven twelve thirteen period, our 1587 01:28:50.800 --> 01:28:53.319 small little less as unit was sort of starting to 1588 01:28:53.399 --> 01:28:56.720 run dry. I've got mates that, by that time frame 1589 01:28:56.800 --> 01:29:01.279 had done ten. You know, eight deployments was not uncommon. 1590 01:29:01.439 --> 01:29:07.880 Ten deployments was still quite common. So and I all 1591 01:29:07.960 --> 01:29:10.520 my best mates were still over there. I was still 1592 01:29:10.560 --> 01:29:12.439 going back every now and then to help with training. 1593 01:29:12.439 --> 01:29:15.319 And one day someone said, oh, what are you doing 1594 01:29:15.359 --> 01:29:17.199 for the next six months? Do you want to deploy 1595 01:29:19.600 --> 01:29:22.279 back to afghan in the military. So they re enlist 1596 01:29:22.359 --> 01:29:26.520 you back into the full time military, and you go 1597 01:29:26.560 --> 01:29:28.399 on a deployment, and then you come back and they 1598 01:29:28.920 --> 01:29:33.159 discharge you again. And I did that twice, and so 1599 01:29:33.239 --> 01:29:36.119 I say to most people, while I did discharge from 1600 01:29:36.159 --> 01:29:39.960 the military, I really didn't discharge in my head until 1601 01:29:40.000 --> 01:29:45.640 around about twenty fifteen. Sort of that twenty fourteen fifteen 1602 01:29:45.800 --> 01:29:47.479 sixteen period. 1603 01:29:47.760 --> 01:29:49.119 The bulk of my work was. 1604 01:29:49.079 --> 01:29:54.399 Back at the embassy, driving the ambassador around town and 1605 01:29:54.439 --> 01:30:00.000 doing that diplomatic protection, a few odd trips around Afghanistan, 1606 01:30:00.159 --> 01:30:01.000 but mostly in Cabul. 1607 01:30:02.399 --> 01:30:05.399 And it wasn't until sort of. 1608 01:30:05.319 --> 01:30:09.359 That twenty sixteen period we're in my head I kind 1609 01:30:09.359 --> 01:30:11.479 of went, I'm okay with my. 1610 01:30:12.920 --> 01:30:14.760 Life experienced in the military to. 1611 01:30:14.720 --> 01:30:18.119 This point, I'm gonna get out and I kind of 1612 01:30:18.159 --> 01:30:22.720 did a few reserve training things in Australia after that, 1613 01:30:23.600 --> 01:30:28.399 but sort of by two thousand and sixteen, seventeen eighteen onwards, 1614 01:30:28.520 --> 01:30:31.239 I was like, fully out. I don't think i've I'm 1615 01:30:31.239 --> 01:30:33.800 fully discharged now. I'm not even in the Army reserve anymore, 1616 01:30:34.680 --> 01:30:37.760 and I haven't really done anything since twenty eighteen or anything. 1617 01:30:38.520 --> 01:30:41.760 I mean, how many years total in the Australian military 1618 01:30:41.800 --> 01:30:43.680 from where it was the lad Eddies when you first 1619 01:30:43.720 --> 01:30:44.520 went in, right. 1620 01:30:45.119 --> 01:30:52.199 Yeah, not quite twenty a bit under twenty. Yeah, not 1621 01:30:52.239 --> 01:30:53.680 a bad hit out they No. 1622 01:30:53.920 --> 01:30:56.319 Hell no, it's a great run that you had, and 1623 01:30:56.600 --> 01:30:59.800 I mean you're I'm glad that you weren't injured worse 1624 01:30:59.840 --> 01:31:01.800 than you were considering what you went through. 1625 01:31:01.840 --> 01:31:04.720 I mean, it's a lot. 1626 01:31:06.199 --> 01:31:09.319 I want to talk about the things you're doing today 1627 01:31:09.439 --> 01:31:12.680 as an expedition and adventure travel guile. But one of 1628 01:31:12.720 --> 01:31:14.520 the things we had talked about earlier that I want 1629 01:31:14.560 --> 01:31:17.560 to make sure we touch upon and ask you about 1630 01:31:18.000 --> 01:31:19.960 is that the SAS has kind of had a pretty 1631 01:31:19.960 --> 01:31:24.159 difficult run the last five years, six years. Maybe a 1632 01:31:24.159 --> 01:31:27.960 lot of news story newspaper stories about war crimes, the 1633 01:31:27.960 --> 01:31:31.319 Barrington Report that came out from the Australian government that 1634 01:31:31.359 --> 01:31:38.039 covered this subject, the ongoing defamation suit with is it 1635 01:31:38.239 --> 01:31:39.520 Robert ben Smith. 1636 01:31:40.720 --> 01:31:43.359 Yep, Yeah, Marus is still in the. 1637 01:31:43.319 --> 01:31:47.800 Coats and so this is still kind of like unfolding 1638 01:31:48.319 --> 01:31:52.199 in the public sphere in Australia, and I just wanted 1639 01:31:52.279 --> 01:31:55.039 to ask you, you know, if you have any comments about 1640 01:31:55.079 --> 01:31:56.840 it or thoughts about it that you wanted to share 1641 01:31:56.840 --> 01:31:57.319 with people. 1642 01:31:59.279 --> 01:32:00.720 Yeah, not heaps. 1643 01:32:02.159 --> 01:32:06.640 It is certainly still heavy in the press in Australia. 1644 01:32:08.439 --> 01:32:11.680 It's not resolved, which is a huge shame in itself. 1645 01:32:11.840 --> 01:32:12.640 I think. 1646 01:32:14.479 --> 01:32:19.880 Myself and all my colleagues that I've ever spoken with, 1647 01:32:20.439 --> 01:32:26.560 none of us were against an inquiry, and not even 1648 01:32:26.920 --> 01:32:28.640 that you don't even need to call it an inquiry, 1649 01:32:28.880 --> 01:32:33.119 a post operation review on what. 1650 01:32:33.159 --> 01:32:35.720 Do we do well? Obviously, what could we have done better? 1651 01:32:35.960 --> 01:32:39.119 How could we improve how can we make tomorrow's war 1652 01:32:39.159 --> 01:32:46.319 fighter better than we were all hugely in believing of that. 1653 01:32:48.039 --> 01:32:54.760 I was bitterly disappointed, I suppose to say, mildly how 1654 01:32:54.840 --> 01:33:00.880 they conducted the review, how they did the investigation. There 1655 01:33:01.000 --> 01:33:06.880 was a massive trial by media. The money that's been 1656 01:33:06.920 --> 01:33:10.680 spent trying to find people guilty by our own country. 1657 01:33:10.720 --> 01:33:14.760 I personally my personal view is pretty sickening when you 1658 01:33:14.840 --> 01:33:16.800 think that the guys we captured have now been let 1659 01:33:16.800 --> 01:33:20.640 out of prison in Kabul, literal murderers that Green on 1660 01:33:20.760 --> 01:33:23.159 Blue murdered Australian soldiers have been led out of prison 1661 01:33:23.279 --> 01:33:27.720 and we're still going through the courts. It kind of 1662 01:33:27.720 --> 01:33:31.079 seems a bit rough. I mean, I wasn't present for 1663 01:33:31.520 --> 01:33:33.920 any of the things that they're investigating. I didn't see 1664 01:33:33.920 --> 01:33:40.039 any war crhymes. I'm sure they can conduct inquiries and 1665 01:33:41.880 --> 01:33:43.560 do their best, but it just seems a bit over 1666 01:33:43.600 --> 01:33:45.920 the top, and a lot of the stuff that's been 1667 01:33:45.920 --> 01:33:47.880 in the press, I know because I read it it 1668 01:33:47.920 --> 01:33:50.680 has actually been untrue. There's been stuff published in the 1669 01:33:50.680 --> 01:33:55.039 media that's not correct, and so that's sad. You sort 1670 01:33:55.039 --> 01:33:59.199 of think to yourself for these guys actually investigative journalists 1671 01:33:59.279 --> 01:34:00.319 or are they just trying to. 1672 01:34:02.439 --> 01:34:04.479 Prove their narrative to sell their story. 1673 01:34:05.319 --> 01:34:08.640 There was the one defamation case with the commander was 1674 01:34:08.680 --> 01:34:12.239 a Russell Heston that I think he won his lawsuit. 1675 01:34:14.359 --> 01:34:18.600 Yeah, and good because hopefully in the future that'll make 1676 01:34:18.680 --> 01:34:23.439 them do a bit more due diligence before they start 1677 01:34:23.479 --> 01:34:28.119 publishing their news articles. Yeah, I'm all for the public 1678 01:34:28.479 --> 01:34:33.359 being informed to an extent. I think, in hindsight, we 1679 01:34:33.399 --> 01:34:35.680 should have shared a lot more of the good work 1680 01:34:35.720 --> 01:34:40.880 we did in Afghanistan. Our s O TG especially just 1681 01:34:40.920 --> 01:34:45.960 had this blanket no media, no stories policy, and what 1682 01:34:46.239 --> 01:34:50.560 then inevitably resulted was the only stories that ever came. 1683 01:34:50.399 --> 01:34:54.520 Out were bad ones, bad ones. And so we're at 1684 01:34:54.520 --> 01:34:55.880 this point now where there's. 1685 01:34:55.720 --> 01:34:59.840 No no one knows about the amazing work we did 1686 01:35:00.039 --> 01:35:05.119 for twenty years, the fact that all the Afghan lives 1687 01:35:05.159 --> 01:35:09.680 we saved. To be honest, you don't have to look 1688 01:35:09.880 --> 01:35:13.600 too deep on the internet to find all the suicide 1689 01:35:13.640 --> 01:35:16.479 bombings that I witnessed in Cabul. I mean in that 1690 01:35:16.520 --> 01:35:19.399 twenty and nine to ten period, the guest I lived 1691 01:35:19.399 --> 01:35:22.159 in Cabul City and that guest house behind us that 1692 01:35:22.199 --> 01:35:24.399 got hit there was the UN guesthouse, and I think 1693 01:35:24.439 --> 01:35:27.520 an nex Navy seal and another UN contractor that was 1694 01:35:27.560 --> 01:35:31.960 in there got killed. Those attacks to happen, commonly, if 1695 01:35:32.000 --> 01:35:34.319 one hadn't happened for a month or so, if a 1696 01:35:34.359 --> 01:35:37.359 truck bomb or a car bomb hadn't gone off killing 1697 01:35:37.359 --> 01:35:41.039 another fifty or sixty civilians in Kabul, you were waiting 1698 01:35:41.079 --> 01:35:43.600 for it to happen. I mean that stuff wasn't okay, 1699 01:35:43.640 --> 01:35:47.199 and I still today am comfortable with everything I did 1700 01:35:47.319 --> 01:35:48.279 because that's what we. 1701 01:35:48.239 --> 01:35:49.199 Were there trying to prevent. 1702 01:35:50.600 --> 01:35:51.319 Tell us about this. 1703 01:35:51.439 --> 01:35:52.159 It's hard to see the. 1704 01:35:52.159 --> 01:35:57.039 Finish this documentary you mentioned to me, Bravery and Betrayal 1705 01:35:57.439 --> 01:35:58.199 that just came out. 1706 01:35:58.279 --> 01:36:02.840 Yeah, and I'm hugely supportive of it. So I've seen. 1707 01:36:02.600 --> 01:36:08.119 It and it's, in my opinion, it's not a huge 1708 01:36:08.199 --> 01:36:09.359 rebuttal of. 1709 01:36:10.800 --> 01:36:11.880 The war crime stuff. 1710 01:36:12.079 --> 01:36:14.119 That's one of the reasons I like it so much 1711 01:36:14.760 --> 01:36:19.439 is that it's actually some SAS guys going, hey, you 1712 01:36:19.479 --> 01:36:21.399 know what, I'm just going to tell some of my story. 1713 01:36:22.239 --> 01:36:26.000 That's good, and so they're getting interviewed and just sharing 1714 01:36:26.039 --> 01:36:28.560 their experiences, pretty much like you've given me the opportunity 1715 01:36:28.680 --> 01:36:33.279 to do today. But to put it puts war fighting 1716 01:36:33.399 --> 01:36:36.359 in a little bit of context, I think, in the 1717 01:36:36.399 --> 01:36:39.960 fact that Bravery and Betrayal is not only interviewing a 1718 01:36:40.000 --> 01:36:45.960 few x SAS guys, it also is interviewing a few 1719 01:36:46.000 --> 01:36:49.520 of our prime ministers. It interviews a few of the 1720 01:36:49.640 --> 01:36:52.880 US pilots that were dropping us off from picking us 1721 01:36:52.960 --> 01:36:53.159 up on. 1722 01:36:53.159 --> 01:36:54.199 These kill capture missions. 1723 01:36:54.239 --> 01:36:57.560 I think there's about three of the minute, which is 1724 01:36:57.640 --> 01:37:00.560 terrific to get someone else's perspective again. 1725 01:37:00.680 --> 01:37:04.079 And it actually also interviews a few of. 1726 01:37:04.079 --> 01:37:07.079 The widows who I know personally, and it must have 1727 01:37:07.159 --> 01:37:10.560 been really difficult for them to get on camera and 1728 01:37:10.640 --> 01:37:11.840 to be interviewed. 1729 01:37:12.520 --> 01:37:17.520 And talk about Matt Locke and Blaine didams, but. 1730 01:37:19.960 --> 01:37:22.800 They did, which I think puts a lot of what 1731 01:37:22.880 --> 01:37:26.560 we were doing and what we believed in so much 1732 01:37:26.960 --> 01:37:29.760 into a bit more perspective than just the negative news 1733 01:37:29.880 --> 01:37:31.119 articles that have. 1734 01:37:31.159 --> 01:37:31.720 Been out there. 1735 01:37:33.119 --> 01:37:37.760 The betrayal part that's in the name, obviously, I think 1736 01:37:37.840 --> 01:37:44.000 really focuses on the one hugely disappointing incident was at 1737 01:37:44.039 --> 01:37:47.279 the end of that Brereton Report where the Australian military 1738 01:37:47.319 --> 01:37:51.119 felt the need to apologize to the Afghan people and 1739 01:37:51.199 --> 01:37:55.199 I personally, my personal belief is that that was just 1740 01:37:55.239 --> 01:38:00.800 insulting to us and everything we sacrifice for over that 1741 01:38:00.840 --> 01:38:05.000 whole time. So yeah, I hugely promote the documentary. I 1742 01:38:05.039 --> 01:38:07.079 think they're working to get it on a streaming service 1743 01:38:07.119 --> 01:38:10.760 at the moment, it's just traveling Australia, so get in 1744 01:38:10.800 --> 01:38:13.680 and see it wherever it pops up. I can flick 1745 01:38:13.680 --> 01:38:16.680 your some one or two. I think there's three previews. 1746 01:38:18.000 --> 01:38:19.960 Yeah, we can put some links in the description of 1747 01:38:19.960 --> 01:38:21.560 this podcast and people can check it out. 1748 01:38:21.640 --> 01:38:24.920 Yeah, I'd love to send you those, but yeah, I 1749 01:38:24.960 --> 01:38:26.960 hope that gets out there a few bit. 1750 01:38:27.000 --> 01:38:28.680 And I've spoken to the producers as well. 1751 01:38:29.159 --> 01:38:31.000 They're hoping that in the future they can do the 1752 01:38:31.039 --> 01:38:34.960 same thing, make a similar docade for the commandos, make 1753 01:38:34.960 --> 01:38:37.319 a similar doco for some of the infantry battalions that 1754 01:38:37.359 --> 01:38:41.520 did deployments to afghan and share some more of that 1755 01:38:41.560 --> 01:38:48.039 broader Australian military story. Because it's apart from people's pot 1756 01:38:48.119 --> 01:38:50.760 that have done podcasts, and there's a few podcasts in Australia. 1757 01:38:51.199 --> 01:38:53.119 Apart from people that have. 1758 01:38:52.680 --> 01:38:54.319 Gone out of their way to share their own stories 1759 01:38:54.319 --> 01:38:57.039 and a book are on a podcast, there's really not 1760 01:38:57.199 --> 01:39:01.319 much covered yet in Australia those personal experiences. 1761 01:39:01.720 --> 01:39:03.880 I think it sort of speaks to the double edged 1762 01:39:04.000 --> 01:39:04.960 sort of secrecy. 1763 01:39:05.079 --> 01:39:05.279 Right. 1764 01:39:05.640 --> 01:39:09.079 In one hand, the military secrecy around these missions is 1765 01:39:09.239 --> 01:39:13.039 paramount in one sense, but after it happens, if you know, 1766 01:39:13.119 --> 01:39:15.439 as we talked about, if you don't publicize it in 1767 01:39:15.479 --> 01:39:18.479 some way, if you don't allow your soldiers to be 1768 01:39:18.560 --> 01:39:22.239 interviewed by the press, then what leaks out is going 1769 01:39:22.319 --> 01:39:24.720 to be the negative stuff, you know, the guys were 1770 01:39:25.439 --> 01:39:28.920 rightly or wrongly disgruntled and angry about what they experienced, 1771 01:39:29.600 --> 01:39:31.560 and you're not going to kind of get the other side. 1772 01:39:31.600 --> 01:39:35.800 So yeah, I can see it both ways. And while 1773 01:39:36.119 --> 01:39:38.479 I think from what I've read anyway, it sounds like 1774 01:39:38.520 --> 01:39:40.560 some guys did step out of line and do things 1775 01:39:40.640 --> 01:39:44.159 that were wrong, but that doesn't speak for the majority 1776 01:39:44.199 --> 01:39:46.000 of the force and most of these guys who went 1777 01:39:46.439 --> 01:39:48.880 over and over and over again and did really professional 1778 01:39:48.880 --> 01:39:49.600 work over there. 1779 01:39:52.079 --> 01:39:54.800 As I said, everyone I've worked with and Seul and 1780 01:39:54.840 --> 01:40:00.119 the vast majority as within my team, and the vast majority, 1781 01:40:02.479 --> 01:40:07.239 if not everyone, I don't know, But yeah, so much 1782 01:40:07.279 --> 01:40:10.399 good was done and so much hard work and sacrifice 1783 01:40:10.840 --> 01:40:14.760 by good people. So it is, as you say, a 1784 01:40:14.880 --> 01:40:18.039 hugely difficult situation, one I don't have the answers for. 1785 01:40:19.119 --> 01:40:22.319 But as you just said, if you look today in 1786 01:40:22.399 --> 01:40:27.800 the Ukraine or Israel, to think that more and more 1787 01:40:27.840 --> 01:40:30.439 information from a battlespace is not going to be shared, 1788 01:40:30.840 --> 01:40:33.479 you're crazy. So to think that you can shut down 1789 01:40:35.119 --> 01:40:36.560 everything is. 1790 01:40:38.359 --> 01:40:39.880 A little bit naive, I think. 1791 01:40:39.960 --> 01:40:41.960 A little bit of out of touch with the times. 1792 01:40:43.000 --> 01:40:48.279 Absolutely, So we need our military, Australian military. I'm sure 1793 01:40:48.279 --> 01:40:50.600 they're doing it today. They need to get smarter at 1794 01:40:50.600 --> 01:40:54.000 that in exactly that, what do we share and what 1795 01:40:54.039 --> 01:40:54.520 don't we. 1796 01:40:55.279 --> 01:40:57.920 Yeah, so talk to us a little bit about your 1797 01:40:58.199 --> 01:41:01.439 post service career and what you've gotten in two cents. 1798 01:41:01.520 --> 01:41:03.479 Then it sounds like it's a lot of fun. 1799 01:41:03.560 --> 01:41:06.960 Actually, yeah, I'm pretty fortunate today. I'm living the dream. 1800 01:41:07.000 --> 01:41:11.119 I mean, after I finished up working at the Australian 1801 01:41:11.159 --> 01:41:15.039 Embassy in Kabul, I didn't really know what I didn't 1802 01:41:15.079 --> 01:41:16.079 know what I was going to do when I got 1803 01:41:16.079 --> 01:41:19.159 to a military That's why I ended up contracting and 1804 01:41:20.479 --> 01:41:21.880 finishing the contracting. 1805 01:41:23.560 --> 01:41:24.640 I didn't really finish it. 1806 01:41:24.680 --> 01:41:26.600 I just sort of thought I'd move into something a 1807 01:41:26.600 --> 01:41:28.640 bit more fun and interesting. 1808 01:41:28.920 --> 01:41:31.000 How can I love to travel? 1809 01:41:31.079 --> 01:41:34.800 I love visiting foreign cultures and doing weird and wonderful things. 1810 01:41:35.199 --> 01:41:37.319 How can I keep doing that but get shot at less? 1811 01:41:37.720 --> 01:41:42.000 And I suppose I was. I thought, well, I can 1812 01:41:42.079 --> 01:41:45.680 do expedition sort of sort of guiding. While I was 1813 01:41:45.720 --> 01:41:48.439 at the embassy, I started a small hiking business in 1814 01:41:48.520 --> 01:41:52.319 Tazzy and it was literally just to fill in my rotations, 1815 01:41:52.359 --> 01:41:55.800 off take people hiking in the mountains and out into 1816 01:41:55.800 --> 01:41:59.239 the remote wilderness. But then that kind of led to 1817 01:41:59.600 --> 01:42:03.239 running expeditions. I worked with some universities that wanted to 1818 01:42:03.239 --> 01:42:07.960 do research overseas, and I worked with some green energy 1819 01:42:08.000 --> 01:42:14.960 companies that wanted to conduct feasibility studies or community liaison 1820 01:42:15.000 --> 01:42:17.239 in different areas where they wanted to do projects. 1821 01:42:17.319 --> 01:42:18.880 And that led me to. 1822 01:42:20.760 --> 01:42:25.479 Places like Cambodia, it in remote areas of Indonesia, went 1823 01:42:25.520 --> 01:42:31.000 to Africa and started doing these sort of cool, pretty 1824 01:42:31.000 --> 01:42:35.319 cool trips that I really enjoyed. At the same time, 1825 01:42:35.399 --> 01:42:37.159 I was like, how can I keep doing this but 1826 01:42:37.279 --> 01:42:40.840 actually not really have a job to do, And I 1827 01:42:40.880 --> 01:42:43.560 sort of off the back of my hiking up mountains 1828 01:42:43.560 --> 01:42:47.279 in TAZZI came to that sort of tourism piece, well, 1829 01:42:47.279 --> 01:42:50.920 if someone wants to go and see this place, I'll take. 1830 01:42:50.800 --> 01:42:55.399 Them and keep them safe. And I still love my 1831 01:42:55.439 --> 01:42:56.239 motorbike riding. 1832 01:42:56.239 --> 01:42:58.399 So that led me and another excess a mate to 1833 01:42:59.520 --> 01:43:03.119 do a motor bike ride through Mongolia, which was pretty epic, 1834 01:43:03.159 --> 01:43:06.920 about three thy five hundred k's or something around the country. 1835 01:43:08.199 --> 01:43:11.239 I did a hike through Israel back in twenty nineteen, 1836 01:43:11.319 --> 01:43:14.640 I think the national trail there, the Israel National Trail, 1837 01:43:15.079 --> 01:43:19.239 so walk from north to south that was pretty epic, 1838 01:43:19.439 --> 01:43:23.279 and then just did some motobike rides in Vietnam and 1839 01:43:24.640 --> 01:43:28.399 sort of random stuff, and still peeps in Australia. I mean, 1840 01:43:28.439 --> 01:43:32.319 I'm off to the Simpson Desert next week to do 1841 01:43:32.399 --> 01:43:37.119 some photography and do write and document an adventure ride 1842 01:43:37.119 --> 01:43:42.359 that some blakes are doing out there. So I still 1843 01:43:42.399 --> 01:43:46.399 love remote places and still love to travel, and the 1844 01:43:46.439 --> 01:43:50.840 more adventurous the better. I think. Now I love my photography. 1845 01:43:50.880 --> 01:43:54.760 I saw something I learned way back. I started learning 1846 01:43:54.800 --> 01:43:57.159 back in one rur when I did my sniper training. 1847 01:43:58.199 --> 01:44:00.399 Obviously I was a reconsoldier in the essay, yes, so 1848 01:44:00.880 --> 01:44:05.199 a lot of photography training involved in that. So now 1849 01:44:05.239 --> 01:44:09.720 I enjoy my travel and wilderness photography. And as I said, 1850 01:44:09.720 --> 01:44:11.000 I write a book, so I do a little bit 1851 01:44:11.039 --> 01:44:14.640 of writing, and my other fundsie that I have now 1852 01:44:14.680 --> 01:44:17.199 to give back to the veteran community a little bit. 1853 01:44:17.239 --> 01:44:19.520 I suppose. I've got a veteran whiskey brand called dog 1854 01:44:19.600 --> 01:44:20.199 Tag Whiskey. 1855 01:44:21.960 --> 01:44:24.880 So it's not a big business, but we sell a 1856 01:44:24.920 --> 01:44:28.760 few few bottles. And it's Tasmania, where I live, where 1857 01:44:28.760 --> 01:44:32.399 I came from, is becoming more and more well known 1858 01:44:32.560 --> 01:44:36.439 for phenomenal whiskey. They produce some really really high quality whiskey. 1859 01:44:36.560 --> 01:44:39.399 Is that because the climate is somewhat similar to Scotland. 1860 01:44:40.880 --> 01:44:43.720 They say, I'm not a stiller, but they say the 1861 01:44:43.720 --> 01:44:48.359 climate is perfect and we have everything in Tasmania to 1862 01:44:48.439 --> 01:44:50.640 make the white spirit, the new make spirit. 1863 01:44:51.479 --> 01:44:53.479 So we do import our barrels, both from the. 1864 01:44:53.520 --> 01:44:59.199 US sort as Ireland. I mean everyone I think does yes, So. 1865 01:44:59.159 --> 01:45:02.479 It's either from America or or Europe. I've got some 1866 01:45:02.520 --> 01:45:06.039 French ape barrels, but mostly American. Eight got some old 1867 01:45:06.279 --> 01:45:09.439 in America your whiskey. I think they can only use 1868 01:45:09.479 --> 01:45:12.439 the barrels once or something. There's some wall there. That's 1869 01:45:12.479 --> 01:45:14.640 just why we get a lot of American barrels here. 1870 01:45:14.800 --> 01:45:15.920 That might be bourbon. 1871 01:45:17.279 --> 01:45:20.520 Okay, yeah, we put out I've got whiskey and bourbon barrels. 1872 01:45:20.560 --> 01:45:27.079 I've got some Buffalo trace barrels and yeah makes good whiskey. 1873 01:45:27.359 --> 01:45:31.840 And what's your You mentioned you have a book out What's. 1874 01:45:31.640 --> 01:45:34.520 The Point that's called And it's not an autobiography. It's 1875 01:45:34.560 --> 01:45:37.840 really just myself write it. 1876 01:45:37.960 --> 01:45:41.960 My wife edited it, went to the printers down the 1877 01:45:42.039 --> 01:45:44.000 road and printed my own copy. 1878 01:45:44.079 --> 01:45:46.239 So I just sell them on my own website. I 1879 01:45:46.319 --> 01:45:46.880 can assist. 1880 01:45:47.560 --> 01:45:52.880 And it's just I write because I kept traveling through COVID, 1881 01:45:53.600 --> 01:45:56.479 but we had our mad lockdowns in Australia. So every 1882 01:45:56.520 --> 01:45:59.560 time I'd return from overseas back to Australia half a 1883 01:45:59.560 --> 01:46:02.119 dozen times times during COVID, I'd get locked in a 1884 01:46:02.159 --> 01:46:05.760 hotel in Sydney for a few weeks, and so I 1885 01:46:05.800 --> 01:46:08.079 started just writing some of my stories while I was 1886 01:46:08.880 --> 01:46:09.239 locked in. 1887 01:46:10.800 --> 01:46:11.680 The hotel rooms. 1888 01:46:11.880 --> 01:46:15.399 And then that eventually my wife said, what are you 1889 01:46:15.439 --> 01:46:17.640 going to do with these mad stories You've written about 1890 01:46:17.760 --> 01:46:20.960 Afghanistan and adventure travel and stuff, and I was to 1891 01:46:21.000 --> 01:46:22.079 begin with, I was like, I don't know. 1892 01:46:22.119 --> 01:46:24.199 We're SF guys, we don't write books. 1893 01:46:25.920 --> 01:46:28.039 But I think over time, I was like, well, there's 1894 01:46:28.039 --> 01:46:30.199 nothing wrong with sharing some of these stories. You know 1895 01:46:30.640 --> 01:46:32.399 I talked about getting blown up, which I share on 1896 01:46:32.439 --> 01:46:33.600 podcasts and things like that. 1897 01:46:34.840 --> 01:46:37.960 So eventually, yeah, I just thought I'll share it. 1898 01:46:38.000 --> 01:46:40.399 But I haven't got time to sit down and write 1899 01:46:40.399 --> 01:46:43.119 about my life, so I've just it's a bit of 1900 01:46:43.119 --> 01:46:45.760 a here's a few experiences that I've had in life, 1901 01:46:45.840 --> 01:46:47.319 and here's what I learned from them. 1902 01:46:47.560 --> 01:46:51.039 So I always like to have the positive outcome. 1903 01:46:50.680 --> 01:46:53.760 What I got out of it, which I lit a 1904 01:46:53.800 --> 01:46:55.920 bit of keynote speaking and that's my main topic. 1905 01:46:56.000 --> 01:46:59.840 Really, what do we learn from from. 1906 01:46:59.760 --> 01:47:03.960 These experiences that we might consider the experience, you know, 1907 01:47:04.079 --> 01:47:07.600 positive or negative. It might be a really crappy experience, 1908 01:47:08.520 --> 01:47:10.319 But did we get anything out of it? How did 1909 01:47:10.359 --> 01:47:12.880 we improve as a person? Are we more adaptive? Are 1910 01:47:12.880 --> 01:47:15.479 we more resilient? Are we more are we better leader? 1911 01:47:15.880 --> 01:47:19.079 Will we make the same mistake again? And you can 1912 01:47:19.119 --> 01:47:21.520 pick those lessons up from lots of different places, whether 1913 01:47:21.560 --> 01:47:25.479 it's you know, business or adventure or or your time 1914 01:47:25.479 --> 01:47:26.680 in the military. 1915 01:47:27.439 --> 01:47:29.479 Where can people find you? What's your website? 1916 01:47:33.279 --> 01:47:36.520 Mark Doreene is the best place to find me online? 1917 01:47:37.039 --> 01:47:40.079 I'm on I'm. 1918 01:47:39.479 --> 01:47:44.399 Tinkering and playing with all social media expert if you're 1919 01:47:44.439 --> 01:47:49.279 in America. But I'm on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and I've 1920 01:47:49.279 --> 01:47:53.119 got a Markedine website. But Point Assist is my business 1921 01:47:53.119 --> 01:47:56.640 that I work through and that also has its own website. 1922 01:47:56.720 --> 01:47:59.359 And they can buy your book through through your website. 1923 01:47:59.760 --> 01:48:03.239 Yeah, shipped, not many of ship maybe a dozen or 1924 01:48:03.279 --> 01:48:05.640 two to a couple of dozen to the US, which 1925 01:48:05.680 --> 01:48:06.359 I'm always like. 1926 01:48:06.279 --> 01:48:10.680 I hope it gets it. Yeah, yeah, family, just randomly 1927 01:48:10.920 --> 01:48:11.720 I've ordered. 1928 01:48:11.439 --> 01:48:12.760 Things from Australia before. 1929 01:48:12.800 --> 01:48:15.880 It gets interesting, not not as interesting as when you 1930 01:48:15.960 --> 01:48:20.560 order things from South Africa, but uh, Australia is Yeah, 1931 01:48:20.920 --> 01:48:23.079 you never know where it's gonna or when it's going 1932 01:48:23.159 --> 01:48:23.680 to show up. 1933 01:48:24.560 --> 01:48:26.439 Yeah, I'm not sure even legally if I can. I 1934 01:48:26.439 --> 01:48:29.119 don't think I can even legally send my alcohol to America. 1935 01:48:30.199 --> 01:48:31.920 Probably not, probably not. 1936 01:48:32.000 --> 01:48:36.000 But the book, the book, Yeah, i'd love to send 1937 01:48:36.039 --> 01:48:36.359 you a copy. 1938 01:48:36.359 --> 01:48:37.079 I'll send you a copy of. 1939 01:48:37.760 --> 01:48:39.119 I would love that. Yeah, thank you. 1940 01:48:39.199 --> 01:48:42.239 Yeah, especially the booze is going to get tariff now too, 1941 01:48:42.319 --> 01:48:45.880 so you're you're screwed. Yeah, but I would love to 1942 01:48:45.920 --> 01:48:48.840 try that, Mark, I mean, thanks for joining us on 1943 01:48:48.880 --> 01:48:49.239 the show. 1944 01:48:50.039 --> 01:48:50.880 Really appreciate it. 1945 01:48:50.880 --> 01:48:53.880 We'll have for listeners or viewers, will have links down 1946 01:48:53.920 --> 01:48:57.239 the description for people who are interested in checking out 1947 01:48:57.239 --> 01:48:58.760 these websites or buying the book. 1948 01:48:59.079 --> 01:49:01.399 Some questions. We've got a couple. We've got a couple 1949 01:49:01.399 --> 01:49:02.760 of viewer questions for you, Mark. 1950 01:49:03.720 --> 01:49:07.600 Oh yeah, shoot, from Matt being a big fan of 1951 01:49:07.680 --> 01:49:10.600 Ossie pop culture, from Dundee to mister in between, can 1952 01:49:10.640 --> 01:49:14.119 you tell us about some real life AUSSI heroes you've 1953 01:49:14.159 --> 01:49:14.680 served with. 1954 01:49:15.560 --> 01:49:16.119 Good question. 1955 01:49:18.880 --> 01:49:23.279 Oh yeah, that's a pretty hard question actually off the 1956 01:49:23.279 --> 01:49:28.960 cup well, the bravery in betrayal. I suppose is is 1957 01:49:29.000 --> 01:49:33.920 one dimension again, there's a bloke in that called more 1958 01:49:34.439 --> 01:49:38.920 and and to be brutally honest, when I first heard 1959 01:49:38.920 --> 01:49:42.840 that the guys were making a doco, I was a 1960 01:49:42.840 --> 01:49:47.880 little bit, oh, what's going to be in this? But 1961 01:49:48.479 --> 01:49:52.000 it was Mortz and another another x rs M of 1962 01:49:52.000 --> 01:49:55.079 the regiment, actually Wayne Weeks, that were a big part 1963 01:49:55.119 --> 01:49:57.720 of making it. And as soon as I knew that 1964 01:49:57.760 --> 01:50:02.720 they were involved, I was keen to see it and 1965 01:50:02.760 --> 01:50:05.520 I was kind of happy to support it, and I'm 1966 01:50:05.560 --> 01:50:08.800 helping with some of the touring of it. So Mortz, 1967 01:50:09.680 --> 01:50:12.479 the guy that's a big inspiration of the docade. When 1968 01:50:12.560 --> 01:50:15.680 I got to one Hour, he was there, and he 1969 01:50:15.800 --> 01:50:18.319 was a recon sniper guy that I had been or 1970 01:50:18.319 --> 01:50:19.159 that I wanted to be. 1971 01:50:20.479 --> 01:50:21.600 He did selection for me. 1972 01:50:21.880 --> 01:50:23.560 But when I got to the sas, he was in 1973 01:50:23.640 --> 01:50:30.960 the squadron that I was in two squadron, and it's 1974 01:50:31.079 --> 01:50:35.119 one of those guys that was an excellent soldiers, hugely professional, 1975 01:50:35.560 --> 01:50:39.039 always trying to improve, and I think so I modeled 1976 01:50:39.279 --> 01:50:43.079 a lot of my thought process off that continuous self improvement. 1977 01:50:43.439 --> 01:50:45.279 How can I learn more? How can I get better 1978 01:50:45.319 --> 01:50:45.920 at what I do? 1979 01:50:46.439 --> 01:50:49.319 I think I got that off more when my patrol 1980 01:50:49.359 --> 01:50:51.159 command I heard his back and got taken out of 1981 01:50:51.199 --> 01:50:53.720 the field and I got promoted a couple of. 1982 01:50:53.720 --> 01:50:55.039 Weeks before I blew himself up. 1983 01:50:56.720 --> 01:50:59.800 Mortz was the sixth guy to come back into my 1984 01:51:00.119 --> 01:51:03.119 filling in my patrol, which I at the time thought 1985 01:51:03.199 --> 01:51:06.159 was hugely difficult because I've got this guy that should 1986 01:51:06.199 --> 01:51:08.920 be my patrol commander. He's just going to fill in 1987 01:51:08.960 --> 01:51:14.119 for a few weeks as Taylor and Charlie. But yeah, 1988 01:51:14.359 --> 01:51:17.000 someone I hugely look up to and for probably that reason, 1989 01:51:17.039 --> 01:51:21.479 is usually professional. He's an excellent soldier and had that 1990 01:51:21.560 --> 01:51:23.840 mindset of always improving. 1991 01:51:23.960 --> 01:51:26.600 How can we get better at what we do? Yeah, 1992 01:51:27.399 --> 01:51:28.399 Crocodile Dundee, I. 1993 01:51:28.359 --> 01:51:31.279 Think it is back out at the moment, and Senators 1994 01:51:31.279 --> 01:51:33.119 in Australia, he's making a comeback, the big guy. 1995 01:51:35.720 --> 01:51:39.640 We have a couple more. Did you deploy for the 1996 01:51:39.720 --> 01:51:41.720 Pong Su or Tampa operations? 1997 01:51:42.920 --> 01:51:47.640 No, they weren't my squadron, all right, we got one 1998 01:51:47.640 --> 01:51:51.640 more interesting jobs are at the time, and I think 1999 01:51:51.760 --> 01:51:54.880 that we were we became at that time. We really 2000 01:51:54.920 --> 01:51:58.760 were the force of choice in the fact that we 2001 01:51:58.760 --> 01:52:01.560 were the cheapest to send anywhere and the most likely 2002 01:52:01.600 --> 01:52:04.439 to get positive results, whatever that might be, whether it 2003 01:52:04.479 --> 01:52:09.199 was supporting America somewhere or or catching a drug boat 2004 01:52:09.319 --> 01:52:12.920 or some illegal fishermen or whatever it might be. Maybe 2005 01:52:12.960 --> 01:52:15.239 a few lessons there that there's jobs that we did 2006 01:52:15.279 --> 01:52:18.279 that probably weren't necessarily us. I did chase a few 2007 01:52:19.000 --> 01:52:22.279 people smugglers around here and there, but. 2008 01:52:23.840 --> 01:52:25.000 No, I wasn't on those ones. 2009 01:52:25.920 --> 01:52:26.079 Uh. 2010 01:52:26.319 --> 01:52:29.359 The what was the weirdest thing you saw in Afghanistan? 2011 01:52:36.720 --> 01:52:37.840 The weirdest. 2012 01:52:39.920 --> 01:52:42.199 Not my go to guys that I used to Afghansas 2013 01:52:42.199 --> 01:52:44.159 I used to like to partner with, but partnering with 2014 01:52:44.199 --> 01:52:47.439 the other blokes I had a few other different local 2015 01:52:47.439 --> 01:52:51.319 police forces and things like that, and there was always 2016 01:52:51.319 --> 01:52:55.520 weird stuff happening there. You'd be arresting someone who's clearly 2017 01:52:57.079 --> 01:52:59.600 a JPELD high level target and they're trying to talk 2018 01:52:59.680 --> 01:53:00.800 out of it, like there was. 2019 01:53:01.199 --> 01:53:05.439 So that was weird. Without going into any stories that 2020 01:53:05.439 --> 01:53:06.199 are too crazy. 2021 01:53:08.159 --> 01:53:11.920 Last one, did you ever work with Jayshak in Afghanistan 2022 01:53:12.079 --> 01:53:12.600 or Iraq? 2023 01:53:14.399 --> 01:53:14.439 No? 2024 01:53:14.840 --> 01:53:17.399 I didn't. 2025 01:53:18.239 --> 01:53:20.279 What I did do and what I loved was the 2026 01:53:20.319 --> 01:53:22.800 Americans that used to come to the essays on exchange. 2027 01:53:23.760 --> 01:53:25.600 So we did get a couple of green bereys come 2028 01:53:25.640 --> 01:53:29.520 over on the occasion, and I worked with a couple 2029 01:53:29.600 --> 01:53:35.840 of Navy seals over time. Ken, I'm trying to think 2030 01:53:35.840 --> 01:53:38.239 of his last name. Actually, you've caught me off guard. 2031 01:53:38.800 --> 01:53:41.560 Was I worked with He came on that two thousand 2032 01:53:41.560 --> 01:53:47.720 and seven deployment with US. I wish I could remember 2033 01:53:47.720 --> 01:53:49.439 his last name. And he actually got killed on a 2034 01:53:50.000 --> 01:53:51.760 separate deployment in Iraq later on. 2035 01:53:53.439 --> 01:53:57.159 A great guy. Yeah, and he was super staked when 2036 01:53:57.159 --> 01:53:57.880 he got to Australia. 2037 01:53:57.880 --> 01:53:59.199 He'd love to come out and have to be with us. 2038 01:53:59.199 --> 01:54:02.840 We drag him out because a pretty senior guy in. 2039 01:54:02.760 --> 01:54:12.680 The in the US in the Unity was from. 2040 01:54:09.479 --> 01:54:12.199 Well Mark, thank you for this interview and sharing your 2041 01:54:12.239 --> 01:54:17.039 perspectives and experiences with us. Again, love works down the 2042 01:54:17.039 --> 01:54:19.560 description for you, for folks out there who want to 2043 01:54:19.600 --> 01:54:22.199 go check out the website, check out the book, check 2044 01:54:22.199 --> 01:54:24.960 out maybe one of these crazy adventure trips that he's 2045 01:54:25.000 --> 01:54:29.039 going on. And for everyone else out there. Any final 2046 01:54:29.079 --> 01:54:30.720 thoughts before we roll out tonight. 2047 01:54:30.520 --> 01:54:35.399 Mark, Oh, my only final thought is thanks for what 2048 01:54:35.439 --> 01:54:40.520 you do helping blacks share their stories. It's it's I 2049 01:54:40.520 --> 01:54:45.119 think it's hugely important, especially when someone's done a lot 2050 01:54:45.159 --> 01:54:47.920 in their life, and it hasn't always been easy. It's 2051 01:54:47.920 --> 01:54:49.680 good to be out, to be able to share. 2052 01:54:49.720 --> 01:54:50.600 It's not only good for the. 2053 01:54:52.159 --> 01:54:54.239 Person, but it's actually good for the community. You'm a 2054 01:54:54.239 --> 01:54:55.079 big believer of that. 2055 01:54:55.159 --> 01:54:55.720 I think so too. 2056 01:54:55.760 --> 01:54:59.359 Be mature as a nation when we can share some 2057 01:54:59.399 --> 01:55:02.479 of these stories and talk a ban the realisms of life. 2058 01:55:02.720 --> 01:55:07.159 Yeah, absolutely so, thank you. We could do it without you. Mark, 2059 01:55:07.239 --> 01:55:11.000 thank you and everyone else. Will see you next week. 2060 01:55:11.359 --> 01:55:13.600 Actually no, there will be two episodes this week, so 2061 01:55:14.000 --> 01:55:16.640 we'll see you on Wednesday and then on Friday. 2062 01:55:16.680 --> 01:55:17.880 Two for the price of one. 2063 01:55:18.560 --> 01:55:19.800 Good work, all. 2064 01:55:19.840 --> 01:55:21.279 Right, take care of everyone. 2065 01:55:21.920 --> 01:55:22.279 Jeez. 2066 01:55:23.800 --> 01:55:24.800 Hey guys, it's Jack. 2067 01:55:24.880 --> 01:55:26.239 I just want to talk to you for a moment 2068 01:55:26.279 --> 01:55:28.479 about how you can support the show. If you've been 2069 01:55:28.520 --> 01:55:30.960 watching it enjoying it, but you'd like to get a 2070 01:55:31.000 --> 01:55:33.399 little bit more involved and help us continue to do this. 2071 01:55:33.920 --> 01:55:37.000 You can check out our Patreon It is patreon dot 2072 01:55:37.039 --> 01:55:41.159 com slash the Teamhouse, and for five dollars a month 2073 01:55:41.239 --> 01:55:43.840 you can get access to all of these episodes of 2074 01:55:43.880 --> 01:55:48.000 The Teamhouse ad free. The same goes with our affiliated 2075 01:55:48.039 --> 01:55:52.600 podcast eyes On with Andy Milburn, Jason Lyons mcmulroy. That 2076 01:55:52.680 --> 01:55:55.560 one you will also get all of those episodes add free, 2077 01:55:56.119 --> 01:55:59.319 and you support the channel and the show, and we 2078 01:55:59.399 --> 01:56:03.399 really appreciate it. The Patreon members are literally what has 2079 01:56:03.399 --> 01:56:08.000 helped this company and this small business survive, especially during 2080 01:56:08.000 --> 01:56:11.239 our early years, and you are what continues to help 2081 01:56:11.279 --> 01:56:15.439 this thing going even as we navigate the turbulent world 2082 01:56:15.439 --> 01:56:16.680 of YouTube advertising. 2083 01:56:16.960 --> 01:56:18.760 So we really appreciate all of you. Guys. 2084 01:56:19.640 --> 01:56:21.279 There's going to be a link down in the description 2085 01:56:21.399 --> 01:56:24.880 to that Patreon page, and there is also going to 2086 01:56:24.920 --> 01:56:27.720 be a link to our new merch shop, so if 2087 01:56:27.760 --> 01:56:30.119 you guys want to go and get some Team House merchandise, 2088 01:56:30.159 --> 01:56:33.720 we got stickers and we also have patches, and I 2089 01:56:33.720 --> 01:56:36.680 should mention if you sign up for Patreon at ten 2090 01:56:36.720 --> 01:56:39.039 dollars a month, we will mail you this patch as well, 2091 01:56:40.479 --> 01:56:43.880 so we really appreciate that. But they're also for sale 2092 01:56:43.920 --> 01:56:47.520 on the merch shop. And additionally, they got t shirts 2093 01:56:47.600 --> 01:56:52.319 up there, water bottles, a tote bag, coffee mugs, all 2094 01:56:52.359 --> 01:56:55.079 that good stuff, so please go and check them out 2095 01:56:55.119 --> 01:56:56.000 and support the show. 2096 01:56:56.600 --> 01:56:57.800 We really appreciate it, guys. 2097 01:56:57.920 --> 01:57:00.000 Thank you.