Speaker 1: Welcome to OUCH. Was that a Ghost? This podcast may
Speaker 1: contain graphic material which some listeners may find disturbing. Listener
Speaker 1: discretion is advised, is advice to me? Now that we
Speaker 1: covered that, here's your host list.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to OUCH. Was that a Ghost? I hope
Speaker 2: everyone got through the storm safely if you were a
Speaker 2: subject to the storms. And back again, we have Chris
Speaker 2: from Twisted Tails. Thank you for coming on gracing me
Speaker 2: with your presence, and Chris is going to be telling
Speaker 2: the story today. Given me a break, so I get.
Speaker 3: To just hope you're all kicking ass in life.
Speaker 2: Kick and ass taking names.
Speaker 3: That's right. Gotta do something. Mm hmm, that was your night?
Speaker 3: What are you up to?
Speaker 2: I just did a few recordings in a row, and
Speaker 2: I was actually very productive today because I've been snowed in,
Speaker 2: so I have like three bags of clothes for donation.
Speaker 2: I made meat loaf and I made all the sides
Speaker 2: with that. I've cleaned, organized a bunch of stuff. So
Speaker 2: I'm actually pretty proud of myself.
Speaker 3: I'm also proud of you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: It's all the crap that you never have time to do.
Speaker 2: But if you snowed in you're like, eh, I can't
Speaker 2: look at that. I gotta do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I get that.
Speaker 2: Organize my laundry room. I'll take a bow. Mm hmm,
Speaker 2: kitty litter freshly cleaned. Anything else? Hell yeah, how are
Speaker 2: you doing today?
Speaker 3: I'm doing all right. Worked, came home. Now I'm podcasting
Speaker 3: with a friend.
Speaker 2: Live in the dream.
Speaker 3: What else could you ask for somebody's dream?
Speaker 2: And you're in Canada. You could probably just order poutine
Speaker 2: if you want, which I've never gotten to try. You
Speaker 2: probably can just door dash out to your house. It
Speaker 2: will be hot.
Speaker 3: The oh, fries and gravy.
Speaker 2: I'm so jealous. I'm want to try that so bad.
Speaker 3: Just make it. Just get cheese curds, gravy, fries. You're good,
Speaker 3: or you like, make your own gravy or whatever. It's
Speaker 3: not hard.
Speaker 2: I don't even know where to get cheese curds.
Speaker 3: Look online or the grocery store.
Speaker 2: All right, I just skip the whole fight.
Speaker 3: Somebody if they don't.
Speaker 2: Have that too, kick an ass and taking cheese curds.
Speaker 2: I like it.
Speaker 3: Uh, it's good to fucking do podcasting with you again.
Speaker 2: Oh so, I'm sorry for interrupting your story. Now, what
Speaker 2: were you saying Charles Brandt.
Speaker 3: Charles Brandt, So this dude kind of went ape shit
Speaker 3: and murdered some people. Nobody could ever figure out the
Speaker 3: reason as to why he did that. It was looked
Speaker 3: at by specialists, doctors, all that, and yeah, it's just
Speaker 3: a crazy little case. So he was born Carl Eric
Speaker 3: Brandt on February twenty third, nineteen fifty seven, up in Connecticut,
Speaker 3: United States of America.
Speaker 2: Connecticut. That's where they get all the good casinos.
Speaker 3: In all Connecticut.
Speaker 2: Eh, yep.
Speaker 3: Have you been in the casinos up there? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I was there, not last weekend, the weekend before.
Speaker 3: Would you play?
Speaker 2: I actually I don't really like gambling that much. Unless
Speaker 2: I'm playing like a Texas tournament, I'll play. But they
Speaker 2: have a go kart thing on the other side of
Speaker 2: the casino underneath, and that's where I spend my time,
Speaker 2: go kart racing arm in the arcade like a door.
Speaker 3: Well, there's nothing wrong with that. God, enjoy life.
Speaker 2: And they have a new Gordon Ramsey restaurant open there,
Speaker 2: which I didn't get to try because it was already closed.
Speaker 2: But I do want to go back and try that.
Speaker 2: I'm going to get kicked out of his restaurant because
Speaker 2: I don't eat meat that's not well done, and I
Speaker 2: feel like if I asked for something well done, he'll
Speaker 2: be like, can you just leave?
Speaker 3: You never know, you got to give it a try.
Speaker 2: Call me a donut or something.
Speaker 3: Ah, yeah, fucking yeah, no, all right. So this dude's
Speaker 3: span a crime ran a mock from January third, nineteen
Speaker 3: seventy one. Then you know, it just chilled for a
Speaker 3: long time, and then it went on again on September
Speaker 3: thirteenth of two thousand and four.
Speaker 2: Wait, so he had almost like a thirty year gap
Speaker 2: of not doing anything well, thirty plus.
Speaker 3: Years, that's correct, madam.
Speaker 2: That's strange, very strange.
Speaker 3: So he was the second child to Herbert and Lisa Brandt,
Speaker 3: and he was actually nicknamed Charlie by his friends and
Speaker 3: people that knew him. And he also had an older
Speaker 3: sister named Angela and two younger sisters, Jessica and Melanie.
Speaker 3: Now his parents were German immigrants. They immigrated to the
Speaker 3: United States back in the year at nineteen fifty five,
Speaker 3: and his parents originally had moved to Texas before they
Speaker 3: ended up moving to Connecticut, where Brandt was born, and
Speaker 3: the family moved around a lot because of his father's employment. Now,
Speaker 3: his father worked in the division International Harvester.
Speaker 2: The fuck is that division? International Harvester? Like harvesting fruit, vegetables, cocaine, cocaine.
Speaker 2: That's a choice. What did you say?
Speaker 3: It was? All right?
Speaker 2: International Harvester, which is the International Harvester Company, was an
Speaker 2: American manufacturer of agricultural and construction equipment, automobiles, commercial trucks,
Speaker 2: lawn and garden products, household equipment, and more.
Speaker 3: This job here actually came with different promotions, certain perks
Speaker 3: and all that. Right, So the guy was just always
Speaker 3: busy getting all those perks and everything because you got
Speaker 3: to get perks.
Speaker 2: I feel like you're just making this into a drug case.
Speaker 2: We'll see if it actually goes there. No, he's moving cocaine,
Speaker 2: he's sticking perks. How what's happening?
Speaker 3: Oh that's funny. So because of this job and everything,
Speaker 3: I kind of put a damper on things as the
Speaker 3: kids were just always uprooted from school and so they
Speaker 3: always had to leave their friends and then make new ones. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean sometimes that could be hard in life.
Speaker 2: Right, definitely, especially a little kids. You can't form those bonds.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, and then they're just like, Okay, you met Jimmy,
Speaker 3: all right, bye Jimmy. See and that's it. You never
Speaker 3: see Jimmy again. Yeah, you're making new friends. Just a
Speaker 3: vicious cycle. Right. But this whole thing affected Charlie just
Speaker 3: a little bit more than a sister. And even with
Speaker 3: this demanding job, the father actually worked his way up
Speaker 3: from a draftsman project engineer and he did this pretty
Speaker 3: fucking well. So good for her.
Speaker 2: Okay, Herbert, Yeah he's moving on up, dude, I think
Speaker 2: I didn't say it.
Speaker 3: Nothing like climbing that company ladder run by run right.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: So they would always take like little vacations to Florida
Speaker 3: and all that. They would do this quite frequently as
Speaker 3: a family. Sometimes it would just be father and son there.
Speaker 3: They would go for hunting trips. This is where they
Speaker 3: would hunt small game and all that. Yeah, and some
Speaker 3: of his friends say, like he was just very quiet,
Speaker 3: very like patient. Now, he was also known to love
Speaker 3: his family, and he was always seen outside with his sisters.
Speaker 3: Usually he'd be taking care of them, you know, he
Speaker 3: would ride around with them on his bike and stuff,
Speaker 3: just have fun. Now, he went through a numerous amount
Speaker 3: of schools here, like I said, but he did obtain
Speaker 3: very good grades throughout all this, like the moving and
Speaker 3: all that good stuff. Yeah, he kept on power with
Speaker 3: the studies. And one teacher remembers that like he wasn't
Speaker 3: one to make friends. He had a bit of trouble
Speaker 3: in that department. I guess he was more of a
Speaker 3: loner who actually isolated himself from like the other students.
Speaker 3: Not all the time. I mean, like he talked to
Speaker 3: like one or two people, but that was about it.
Speaker 2: You can't really blame him if he's moving all the
Speaker 2: time and he's like, why even bother make this attachment
Speaker 2: if I'm going to move tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Well that's right. You know. Maybe he was just unattached
Speaker 3: with all that. But I mean he still studied and
Speaker 3: did his homework and everything right.
Speaker 2: And that's tough because if you go to school to school.
Speaker 2: I moved a lot when I was a kid, and
Speaker 2: every school's curriculum does not line up like you can
Speaker 2: move into one and they're dealing with I don't know
Speaker 2: whatever part of the plan and the the party already
Speaker 2: covered that that you go to, so you could be
Speaker 2: missing things or you could be repeating things, and that's
Speaker 2: good to be kept up with whatever obstacles were thrown at.
Speaker 3: Him exactly, And in September nineteen sixty eight, the family
Speaker 3: moved to Fort Wayne, Indiana, when Charlie was like eleven
Speaker 3: years old by now, and things went well for a bit.
Speaker 3: The father was making good coin. The family had vacations
Speaker 3: every now and again, right, so, I mean it was
Speaker 3: a good time for all. They would have two more daughters.
Speaker 3: As time went on, it seemed that Charlie had started
Speaker 3: to exhibit violent tendencies.
Speaker 2: Uh, oh, that's not good.
Speaker 3: No, this was around the time he was thirteen years old. Ah,
Speaker 3: it's like a repeated loss of temper, fighting, wrecking property,
Speaker 3: causing vandalism, property damage, shit like that. Increased use of
Speaker 3: drugs and or alcohol. Lastly, you know saying at thirteen. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: like these are somethings that like lead.
Speaker 2: Oh I thought you said that Charlie at thirteen was
Speaker 2: like increased use of drugs or alcohol and like increased
Speaker 2: from water. He shouldn't be drinking period, and he's increasing it.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, this is it's just like how to
Speaker 3: see signs when this is going on, Like this is
Speaker 3: all the steps towards it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't they have the the triangle, the McDonald triangle.
Speaker 3: I don't know what that is. Explain.
Speaker 2: It's supposed to be like a test, a serial not
Speaker 2: a test but an indicator, but like serial killer children.
Speaker 2: And it was, oh, I know, animal cruelty, bed wedding,
Speaker 2: and there was something else. I have to look it up.
Speaker 2: Fire setting. So animal cruelty, fire setting and persistent bed wedding.
Speaker 2: It's the serial killer triangle, the McDonald triad.
Speaker 3: Huh, I learned something today.
Speaker 2: Wonderful, all right, So he was doing all weird stuff.
Speaker 2: He wasn't doing drugs, no, no.
Speaker 3: Yet, no. So let's pass forward to January third, nineteen
Speaker 3: seventy one. Surely this family had returned to their Fort
Speaker 3: Wayne residents the previous night. This is following like their
Speaker 3: annual Christmas vacation that was held up in Ramon Beach, Florida.
Speaker 3: After the children turned in for the evening, Old Herbert
Speaker 3: was shaving in the bathroom while Ilsa, who is now
Speaker 3: eight months pregnant, was just relaxing soaking in the bathtub
Speaker 3: here reading Time magazine. So yeah, they were just shaving,
Speaker 3: talking whatever, right, little Charlie, and then abruptly walked into
Speaker 3: the bathroom shot his father in the back at point
Speaker 3: blank range with his father's own nine millimeter handgun. So
Speaker 3: that's fucking crazy.
Speaker 2: So he found that shot him out of nowhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the dad actually kept this in a nightstand drawer.
Speaker 3: After being shot, the dad just collapsed right there on
Speaker 3: the floor by the sink that he was shaving at.
Speaker 3: So by this time, the mother's just screaming, right, she
Speaker 3: just seen her husband get shot in the back. Now
Speaker 3: he's on the ground. Charlie then took aim with his
Speaker 3: gun and shot her multiple times. She died from her injuries, unfortunately.
Speaker 3: So then Charlie left the bathroom to go do another
Speaker 3: hard of his plan. So as he left, the dad
Speaker 3: groaned and he laid there a moment there. He was shocked,
Speaker 3: but he wasn't dead. So Charlie then walked into his
Speaker 3: sister Angela's room, pointed the gun at an attempt to
Speaker 3: shoot her, but the gun ended up jamming here it
Speaker 3: didn't go off, so since it jammed, Angela took this
Speaker 3: as an opportunity. She started to wrestle the gun away
Speaker 3: from her brother. Then Charlie began to choke her and
Speaker 3: then they scuffled around. So during all this, the sister
Speaker 3: was just making promises that they get this all figured
Speaker 3: out in the end, right, Like they're fighting, and she's like, no,
Speaker 3: we'll help you, we'll figure this out, right. So she
Speaker 3: convinced Charlie to go gather up some blankets for his
Speaker 3: two younger siblings, and then she ran to her neighbors
Speaker 3: to get some help and to kind of get away
Speaker 3: from him because she was just deathly afraid of him, right,
Speaker 3: But she never said that to him or anything, right,
Speaker 3: she didn't want him to freak out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because she's trying to keep herself and her two
Speaker 2: younger siblings alive.
Speaker 3: That's true. No, Charlie ended up getting blankets for the
Speaker 3: younger sisters and then followed his sister out of the house,
Speaker 3: and all he could see is her running away, and
Speaker 3: like he told her not to leave him alone, but
Speaker 3: she ran ahead. Jared a gunshot. He tried to kill her,
Speaker 3: so why wouldn't she run so Not long after Charlie
Speaker 3: boy like kind of hoofs her in the other direction
Speaker 3: to the other neighbor's house. Charlie knocked and then when
Speaker 3: Buddy answered, Charlie just told him I shot my mom
Speaker 3: and dad. And then the cops were called to the scene.
Speaker 3: By this time, the father, Herbert, was up and about,
Speaker 3: so he got interviewed by police and everything, and he
Speaker 3: did make confirmation that it was his own son who
Speaker 3: had shot him and killed his wife an unborn baby.
Speaker 3: He then told police, like, not sure why he did this.
Speaker 3: It's just a completely unbelievable thing to happen, fucking pretty
Speaker 3: crazy out of nowhere. Yeah, Charlie had told his sister
Speaker 3: Angela that he couldn't remember what he had done moments ago.
Speaker 3: Angela described her brother as being in like a trans
Speaker 3: like state which had actually broken during their struggle, right,
Speaker 3: so he kind of like fucking snapped out of it.
Speaker 3: So when an interviewed by police, Brand attributed the shootings
Speaker 3: to a combination of things. Some was related to school,
Speaker 3: and he stated that everything sort of just snapped in
Speaker 3: my mind. I felt like I never felt before. And
Speaker 3: then Brand started talking about another incident here that took
Speaker 3: place a few days before the shooting. This is near
Speaker 3: the end of his family's floor to vacation, which the
Speaker 3: family dog was shot and killed. It was Charlie that
Speaker 3: shot him, So he covered this up.
Speaker 2: And it's strange because he doesn't have connections with friends,
Speaker 2: so you figure to rely on the dog having that
Speaker 2: concept in their life, but.
Speaker 3: Didn't happen in this situation. But yeah, after fucking around,
Speaker 3: like all the police interviews and all that, Charlie Boy
Speaker 3: was then arrested and then he spent some time in
Speaker 3: county jail. Now a quick thing I found here too
Speaker 3: that Brandt's two younger sisters actually lived under the impression
Speaker 3: that their mother had been killed in a car accident,
Speaker 3: so they never knew how she died. That's pretty crazy.
Speaker 2: That's such an old like back then. I mean, this
Speaker 2: is an extreme situation, but I feel like, you know,
Speaker 2: presentation of your family or your status was so important,
Speaker 2: so a lot of families would brush so many things
Speaker 2: under the rug. And that's a huge thing to brush
Speaker 2: under the rug.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And because he was actually too young to
Speaker 3: be tried for murder, the judge actually made him spend
Speaker 3: one year in a psychiatric hospital bran until he spent
Speaker 3: one fucking year at this establishment before being released back
Speaker 3: into society and then the custody of his family back
Speaker 3: in Tune of Abou nineteen seventy two. So he shot
Speaker 3: and killed his mom because one year fucking.
Speaker 2: That is no consequence, zero consequence. One year.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Now while he was here, three separate psychiatric evaluations
Speaker 3: went on, and all the doctors and everything failed to
Speaker 3: determine what actually triggered the shooting. Nobody had any idea,
Speaker 3: like why he just fucking snapped it. He just did
Speaker 3: what he did. I mean, there was no rhyme, no
Speaker 3: reason for it. It's a good kid, good in school.
Speaker 2: They're like, we don't know, but sure, let's release him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, here you go.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, like there was no psychiatric dis hease founded
Speaker 3: Charlie at all. Like that was their diagnosis. He showed
Speaker 3: zero signs of underlying psychological stress and that was a
Speaker 3: whole Uh.
Speaker 2: But if he was intelligent, he may have been able
Speaker 2: to outsmart certain tests if he knew what they were
Speaker 2: looking for.
Speaker 3: That is true. Now, one psychiatrist here, this is R. J.
Speaker 3: Pants Pack Pecker pack pecker packpecker, picker, picker pot Peter
Speaker 3: piper picked a bunch of peckled pickles, fucking peppers. We're
Speaker 3: just gonna put that in.
Speaker 2: We're gonna leave that perfect.
Speaker 3: No, it's not perfect. And one psychiatrist here, Er J. Pantsner,
Speaker 3: He mentionined that Charlie should be watched very closely by
Speaker 3: his family. And this dude had an office down in
Speaker 3: Fort Wayne. Now, nobody in the family mentioned anything about
Speaker 3: this whole thing again, and that's what the father wanted.
Speaker 2: And just put him right back with the siblings.
Speaker 3: Yep, that's it.
Speaker 2: I don't like to judge people. If I just find
Speaker 2: that from the information, I have very bizarre to insert
Speaker 2: him right back with the other children.
Speaker 3: After one year and they don't know what's on. And
Speaker 3: then they just relocated up to Ormond Beach, Florida, just
Speaker 3: a hop skip and a jump away buddy. They sold
Speaker 3: the home, the father quit his job, and boom new life.
Speaker 2: That is so disturbing because he already killed one of
Speaker 2: his siblings.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, one year later, after moving and everything, Brand's
Speaker 3: father now remarried and the two younger sisters moved back
Speaker 3: to Indiana and Brandon Angela stayed behind in the care
Speaker 3: about their grandparents. So then Charlie would finish high school. Now,
Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty four, Charlie received a degree in electronics
Speaker 3: and became a radar specialist for Ford Aerospace and asked
Speaker 3: for Florida, so he moved a fuck up there. So
Speaker 3: he had a good job, he worked tired at it.
Speaker 3: And in between this he meet a woman named Teresa
Speaker 3: Terry Helfrich. Now she had owned a retail store up
Speaker 3: in Daytona Beach, and she was described by friends as
Speaker 3: a very happy go look person, is an all around
Speaker 3: good person. So after some time a dating here, the
Speaker 3: couple ended up tying the knot on August twenty ninth
Speaker 3: of nineteen eighty six. No relatives were invited to their wedding,
Speaker 3: which is a little bit weird, and the two were
Speaker 3: just inseparable here and they loved each other very much,
Speaker 3: and they didn't have anybody at their wedding right, kind
Speaker 3: of like a weird little request. I think, what do
Speaker 3: you think?
Speaker 2: Yeah, unless something was going on with the family, that
Speaker 2: is bizarre.
Speaker 3: And then the couple built and settled in on a
Speaker 3: six hundred thousand dollars beach house on Big Pine Key.
Speaker 3: It's in nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 2: Now, Charlie a couple of years later making that money.
Speaker 3: No, yeah, getting the beach house there you go. Boy,
Speaker 3: Why do you get a weekend retreat when you get
Speaker 3: a time share?
Speaker 2: I don't like time shares?
Speaker 3: Do it?
Speaker 2: You get committed to the one spot, and then you
Speaker 2: have the maintenance fees, and then if you want to
Speaker 2: sell it, it's a whole thing, and even if you
Speaker 2: don't use it, you still have to pay that annual fee.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't see any harm, you know, any foul
Speaker 3: to this at all. I think you should do it.
Speaker 3: It's a great idea.
Speaker 2: I agree to disagree.
Speaker 3: I'll get you next episode. Like Christopher, I have a
Speaker 3: time share now. But yeah, back to it here. Like
Speaker 3: everything just seemed to be awesome with these two right,
Speaker 3: Like barely any arguments. They got along great. Neither really
Speaker 3: saw the other one get angry at anything at all.
Speaker 3: There were a lot of people that knew that Charlie's passing,
Speaker 3: that he killed his mom. That's going to be talked about,
Speaker 3: like friends and family actually try to get Charlie to
Speaker 3: tell Terry about this, but he declined and checks he
Speaker 3: knew nothing of what he did when he was thirteen
Speaker 3: years old.
Speaker 2: Well, that might be the reason why no one was
Speaker 2: invited to the wedding, because he didn't want anyone to
Speaker 2: have that time to talk to her.
Speaker 3: That could be an idea too. Now. Even Brand's sister
Speaker 3: Angela actually advised him to tell Terry about the murder
Speaker 3: of their mother, and all he said was like he
Speaker 3: would actually just take it into her revisement. It's like
Speaker 3: I'll take her. That was it. But there are some
Speaker 3: times here where he would have bad days. Terry would
Speaker 3: actually write about these bad days and like this daily
Speaker 3: planner thing like a diary. I guess now this is
Speaker 3: back in nineteen ninety three. She actually writes about like
Speaker 3: his puzzling behavior. Here she wrote up about like some
Speaker 3: depressive episodes and like some weird talk that he ramble
Speaker 3: on about, just randomness. I guess. Now fast forward in
Speaker 3: September Tewo, two thousand and four, there was a hurricane
Speaker 3: actually underway in the area. Now, so this is Hurricane Ivan,
Speaker 3: and the couple actually lived on one of the spots
Speaker 3: that was under evacuation, so they secured the house for
Speaker 3: a bit here they boarded up the windows. I do
Speaker 3: believe this whole thing did like twenty billion in damages
Speaker 3: actually throughout the United States, and it only had about
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty four fatalities in total, so lots
Speaker 3: of damage lost fatalities. Still sucks. Yeah, do you remember
Speaker 3: Hurricane Ivan?
Speaker 2: I do, because I have a lot of family that
Speaker 2: live in Florida, and I remember just when they didn't
Speaker 2: answer for a day or two would freak out. But
Speaker 2: a lot of them got out of that area, the
Speaker 2: direct area.
Speaker 3: Well it's good. Everybody was okay, yeah, hell yeah.
Speaker 2: Minor house damage, but that's it. That's fine. Houses can
Speaker 2: be replaced. Things can be replaced.
Speaker 3: No, that's true. So what happened here is their niece,
Speaker 3: Michelle Lynn Jones. It's actually the daughter Terry's sister. She
Speaker 3: invited them to stay at her residence near Orlando, so,
Speaker 3: I mean it was nice for her to get her
Speaker 3: out and uncle out of the place that they were
Speaker 3: being evacuated from. Man Michelle was this successful executive TV
Speaker 3: person for the Golf Channel, so not a bad gig.
Speaker 3: She was thirty seven years old. Golf Channel is pretty
Speaker 3: popular now. Throughout the visit here, Michelle captain regular contact
Speaker 3: with her mother, right Mary Lou, as well as some
Speaker 3: of her friends. Now. On the evening of September thirteenth,
Speaker 3: one of Melissa's friends, Lisa Emmons, she was actually going
Speaker 3: to come visit her house, but Jones had discouraged her
Speaker 3: from coming, saying that the branch like had an argument
Speaker 3: after having some drinks and all that, the whole atmosphere
Speaker 3: just kind of shifted and that was kind of unfit
Speaker 3: to have people over. Now the couple was just a
Speaker 3: little pissed off at each other as all, so just
Speaker 3: kind of ruined the whole, like vibe for the company,
Speaker 3: no fucking point and people coming over right and all
Speaker 3: Michelle wanted to do by this point just go to sleep.
Speaker 3: She was just pissed off. Whatever I'm going to bed.
Speaker 3: Nobody would hear from them for a few days. So
Speaker 3: just two days later here on September fifteenth, none of
Speaker 3: Michelle's friends or family could actually get in contact with
Speaker 3: her at all, which was weird. She kept in contact
Speaker 3: with her mom a lot, even during the whole visit
Speaker 3: when like the Brants were up there and everything. Fuck,
Speaker 3: she talked to her mother then too, So this is
Speaker 3: weird for her to go two days or in any communication.
Speaker 3: So what a friend did is decided to head on
Speaker 3: and over do a wellness check. So this was Debbie Knight,
Speaker 3: So she went to the house here to check on everybody. Now,
Speaker 3: she was on the phone with Jones's mother when she
Speaker 3: was rolling up, so she had a spare key on
Speaker 3: the go, but when she went there to try it,
Speaker 3: the key wasn't working for some reason. So after finding
Speaker 3: the front door locked, she then tried to enter the
Speaker 3: house through the back over by the caraage. So once
Speaker 3: she was there, she looked through the door. This had
Speaker 3: like an all glass door or whatever. Right here she
Speaker 3: saw the outline of a person and it looked like
Speaker 3: the person was suspended in the air, was hanging from
Speaker 3: the rafters and this was actually Charlie. He hung himself
Speaker 3: using bed sheets in the house. After she found Charlie dead, obviously,
Speaker 3: she called the cops. Upon law enforcement's arrival, they talked
Speaker 3: to the friend that showed up, then they entered the house.
Speaker 3: They found the body of Brand's wife and their knees.
Speaker 3: The whole place was locked from the inside, so there
Speaker 3: was no forced entry, no sign of a struggle, nothing
Speaker 3: seemed to be taken in the house. To them, it
Speaker 3: looked like side job. And thus, with two people being
Speaker 3: killed and one having killed himself, authorities quickly determined that
Speaker 3: Charlie Brandt had killed his wife and niece before committing
Speaker 3: suicide on that night. It just looked like Charlie was
Speaker 3: just frying up some fish for everybody. They were all
Speaker 3: drinking booze, and police then realized that an argument had
Speaker 3: happened and it was most likely little after this that
Speaker 3: Charlie went on in his little rampage, right, so that's
Speaker 3: what they were thinking. Terry had been stabbed seven times
Speaker 3: in the chest. She was found lying on the couch
Speaker 3: and she was killed using the knives that were in
Speaker 3: Jones's kitchen. And Michelle Jones was found to have been
Speaker 3: decapitated and disemboweled. Ye crazy, and her heart and her
Speaker 3: organs were removed, and her head was actually placed next
Speaker 3: to her body.
Speaker 2: No indication as to why.
Speaker 3: Fucked There was no indication as to why he walked
Speaker 3: in and fucking shot his dad, you know, killed his
Speaker 3: own Maybe fucking lick her head probably something to do
Speaker 3: with it, I would imagine.
Speaker 2: I'm not a psychiatrist psychologist, but he definitely had some
Speaker 2: undiagnosed issues going on.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean to be trying to be diagnosed with
Speaker 3: this craziness back in the seventies. I'm sure they missed
Speaker 3: like one or two things. Yeah, now the tail goes
Speaker 3: that before he removed her organs, he carefully put her
Speaker 3: blood silk clothes in the bathroom sink before just membering her.
Speaker 3: This gruesome scene actually fucked with police too. It was
Speaker 3: just a horrific sight. Now, some of the cops that
Speaker 3: were there went to the front yard threw up. And
Speaker 3: these were seasoned officers too, had years into their belts
Speaker 3: all that.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, but there's certain scenes. Doesn't matter how many
Speaker 2: times how long you're on the job, if you walk
Speaker 2: into those, they're going to affect you.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, you're gonna remember that for a long time. Right. Well,
Speaker 3: even this chief investigator dude here, he said, in my
Speaker 3: twenty six years, I've never seen anything like this. Let's
Speaker 3: get a little bit more detailed on this case. Here,
Speaker 3: Terry had been stabbed. Like I said, the thing is
Speaker 3: here that you know, something actually stuck out to investigators.
Speaker 3: It was noticed that Charlie had used so much force
Speaker 3: and stabbing her that had actually penetrated the couch on
Speaker 3: the other side of her.
Speaker 2: That's definitely a lot of rage.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Now Michelle was in her bedroom, as I said,
Speaker 3: her hat was cut off. He cut off one arm,
Speaker 3: removed both of her breasts, and it looked like he
Speaker 3: was halfway in the process of actually cutting off one
Speaker 3: leg as well, and then her heart was cut out too.
Speaker 3: Police actually needed dental records to identify her body, and
Speaker 3: there are some here that actually said she was sexually
Speaker 3: violated as well. Now it was also found out that
Speaker 3: Charlie had taken a shower, he got into some clean clothes,
Speaker 3: then entered the garage, pulled a stool between the cars,
Speaker 3: and then he used the rafters to tie the bed
Speaker 3: sheets that he took together, and he hung himself. And
Speaker 3: he left no note or any explanation as to why
Speaker 3: he did any of this. So that's fucking insane. What
Speaker 3: do you think about this?
Speaker 2: The only thing I think is it's very very strange
Speaker 2: that from his mother to then his niece and his
Speaker 2: well his mother and his sister or brother, and then
Speaker 2: to his wife and his niece thirty years. I find
Speaker 2: it very hard to believe that he didn't do anything
Speaker 2: else in those thirty years, because if you're going to
Speaker 2: have violent outbursts, I'm not saying that they're on a clock,
Speaker 2: but it's very unlikely that nothing else happened in that time.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, there's probably some shit that went down
Speaker 3: right that he wasn't caught for or whatever. And by
Speaker 3: now old Charlie Boyce family heard about the crime, and Angela,
Speaker 3: his sister, actually finally made the decision to tell police
Speaker 3: about what Charlie did back in seventy one, so that way,
Speaker 3: maybe that this case would start making some sort of sense.
Speaker 3: So she talked to investigators alone, and she spoke up
Speaker 3: about Charlie's like they said thirty years old.
Speaker 2: By now take thirty plus years.
Speaker 3: And following a search of branch residents there, it was
Speaker 3: revealed that he was a monthly subscriber to Victoria's Secret catalogs.
Speaker 3: So he liked the old Victoria's Secret. Maybe he didn't
Speaker 3: know what her secret.
Speaker 2: Was, you know the secret about Victoria. Yeah, Victoria is
Speaker 2: a man. A female doesn't know in that company.
Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't say fucking prosyeah.
Speaker 2: Bra underwear, their sweatshirt clothes because they also have pink,
Speaker 2: which is like at the Victoria's Secret store. There's like
Speaker 2: a little off branch and they have a lot of
Speaker 2: clothes and stuff there too, and perfume.
Speaker 3: Really have you bought things from there?
Speaker 2: I spend a lot of money there, too much money.
Speaker 3: Oh see there you go, look you have an addiction.
Speaker 3: They're also a gambler.
Speaker 2: I'm addicted to the go karts at the bottom of Foxwoods.
Speaker 3: Did you win any races?
Speaker 2: I did? But my son's like so much better than
Speaker 2: me at it. He has like the F one set
Speaker 2: up in his room, so he practices all the time,
Speaker 2: so he takes corners better than me. So if I
Speaker 2: raise him, I usually lose. We'll come in second.
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
Speaker 2: I just I'm really curious in this case if they
Speaker 2: looked around the time. I know that you're talking about
Speaker 2: the Victoria's Secret magazine, but if they looked around that
Speaker 2: area about either missing or murders that were unsolved.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder.
Speaker 4: That could be a good little little thing to talk
Speaker 4: about as well. I'll get into that as well. I
Speaker 4: have a little bit of stuff on that too, all right. Plus,
Speaker 4: like the search and everything here they found an extensive
Speaker 4: collection of surgery themed books, posters, and a bunch of
Speaker 4: clippings here like operations and.
Speaker 2: Stuff, posters, and yeah, that's weird. I could see books
Speaker 2: having an interest or having like to take an anatomy
Speaker 2: a class or something, but having posters and he works
Speaker 2: in engineering is very strange.
Speaker 3: Well, maybe he took them off the walls or something, Right,
Speaker 3: like you see shit at the hospitals or something. Maybe
Speaker 3: he just took some stuff, you know, like those doctors
Speaker 3: fucking posters and stuff.
Speaker 2: Okay, so he has like a what a fascination with anatomy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he also had this big picture of how
Speaker 3: a heartworks posted on the wall too. Yeah. No, plus
Speaker 3: like another weird thing here, they also found out that
Speaker 3: he had a nickname for Michelle and that he actually
Speaker 3: called her a pretorious secret, which is fucking weird. And
Speaker 3: friends also mentioned that he was just very like quiet
Speaker 3: and reserved, like nobody thought that he would do this.
Speaker 3: But I mean people already knew that he did this before, right,
Speaker 3: just fucking sit back and observe shit. Others say he
Speaker 3: was a good guy, you know, a little bit of
Speaker 3: centric and stuff, but he would just like kind of
Speaker 3: just chill observe everything, right, you know, talk to people
Speaker 3: and stuff. Normal guy. As the case went on, police
Speaker 3: heard through the grapevine here that Charlie might have actually
Speaker 3: committed other murders lists and one actually happened when his
Speaker 3: wife was still a lot Now police actually determined that
Speaker 3: Brand's murderer, Jones indicated like past experience the way like
Speaker 3: he's cut up the body and everything. Plus because he
Speaker 3: traveled often due to his job and everything, police checked
Speaker 3: out like all these cold cases and Florida that actually matched,
Speaker 3: like the you know, DMO and all that, and try
Speaker 3: to figure out if he killed anybody else while he
Speaker 3: was traveling for work. So tail goes. A woman's body
Speaker 3: was found. This is on July sixteenth, nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 3: She was partially clothed. This is the body of one
Speaker 3: Sherry Parashot. She was a thirty eight year old female.
Speaker 3: She was discovered floating near the Big Pine's Key North
Speaker 3: Pine Channel Bridge. Partia's throat had been slashed to the
Speaker 3: point of near decapitation and it was just brutal. Her
Speaker 3: head was like literally halfway off.
Speaker 2: With bodies speculation, of course, but if he was practicing
Speaker 2: on her or trying to do it and then he
Speaker 2: just got better on his knees, you can see his
Speaker 2: evolution throughout. So who knows how many more people he
Speaker 2: may have again allegedly because I don't know. No, he
Speaker 2: probably definitely did a lot more than what he was
Speaker 2: charged for. It was hard to believe that that was it.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Plus another thing here, like her body was
Speaker 3: extensively mutilated too, and her heart was removed almost as
Speaker 3: like done by an actual surgeon, so he was getting better.
Speaker 3: Plus the body was actually found less than one thousand
Speaker 3: feet from Brandt's beach house, so it wasn't very far
Speaker 3: away at all either.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And when police questioned people around the neighborhood about her,
Speaker 3: people remembered seeing a man nearby that night too. The
Speaker 3: man was actually seen crossing US Route one near the
Speaker 3: murder scene. And even his wife, Terry, actually gave a
Speaker 3: statement to the cops here and she told her brother
Speaker 3: in law about some shit. Terry mentioned to the police
Speaker 3: and her brother in law that she had suspected Brandt
Speaker 3: in that nineteen eighty nine killing a sherry. Now, she
Speaker 3: stated that brand actually came home with blood on his
Speaker 3: shirt that night, which he claimed was from laying fish,
Speaker 3: and that was pretty much it. Terry actually kept journals
Speaker 3: on days that like Charlie got emotional and ruin too, right,
Speaker 3: like I said, And yeah, she actually showed police like
Speaker 3: some of these kind of give them a little bit
Speaker 3: more insight on who he was, how he was.
Speaker 2: That's so frustrating because this if all of his information
Speaker 2: had been shared maybe some of these lives could have
Speaker 2: been saved, exactly.
Speaker 3: Doctor Phill even said that a fucking thing. That's funny.
Speaker 3: So actually, based in all this evidence here, Terry's reported
Speaker 3: statements and stuff, Monroe County investigators determined that Brand killed
Speaker 3: Cherry and they officially closed the case on May sixth,
Speaker 3: two thousand and six. Police started to reinvestigate unsolved murders
Speaker 3: in Florida dating back to nineteen seventy three for potential
Speaker 3: evidence of Brand's involvement. And there were actually three that
Speaker 3: checked out. Now, they were nineteen seventy eight. There was
Speaker 3: Carole Lynn Sullivan. She was twelve years old. She was
Speaker 3: last yeah, she was last seen at six. Now, Sullivan
Speaker 3: was adducted from a school bus stop in the Leisua
Speaker 3: County on September twentieth, nineteen seventy eight, in Deltona, and
Speaker 3: her skull was found in a paint can. So this
Speaker 3: was leading authorities to presume she was murdered and decapitated.
Speaker 2: Baby.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, the skull here was found twelve days later,
Speaker 3: less than two miles away. The flesh was gone off
Speaker 3: it and there was nothing there but like this small
Speaker 3: patch of hair, and this is located sitting in the
Speaker 3: tall grass on a slope near a pond in the
Speaker 3: area of Doyle Road in Saxon Boulevard. This is farther
Speaker 3: west in Daltona actually, and the rest of her bones
Speaker 3: and all that they were never recovered. Now, the head
Speaker 3: was actually discovered by the nineteen year old Bob Gorman,
Speaker 3: who is exploring the area in the vicinity of his
Speaker 3: parents' future home. So he walked over. He's seen the can,
Speaker 3: then the skull, and then all the fire ants that
Speaker 3: were crawling like all over it too, So he set
Speaker 3: it down and he ran to his car. Then he
Speaker 3: drove to the nearest convenience store and then called the
Speaker 3: sheriff's office from there, and that'said I found her. Now,
Speaker 3: at the time, Brant was twenty one and he lived
Speaker 3: in Valisia County at the time actually, but he couldn't
Speaker 3: be tied to the crime in any other way than that,
Speaker 3: And even today there's actually no link to Branton Sullivan
Speaker 3: at all. So just something to think about. And then
Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty eight there's Lisa Sanders, aged twenty. So
Speaker 3: Sanders was beaten and dragged from her car in Big
Speaker 3: Pine Key and this is back in December. Her heart
Speaker 3: was missing when she was found, but it's unclear if
Speaker 3: it was extracted by the attacker or like eaten by
Speaker 3: like vultures or anything like that. Again, the last one here,
Speaker 3: this is nineteen ninety five. This will be Darlene Toler.
Speaker 3: She was thirty eight. Toiler was from Miami who's was
Speaker 3: missing her head, her heart and it was discovered dumped
Speaker 3: in a grassy area near a highway. Brandt actually used
Speaker 3: that same highway regularly, so he kept mileage record of
Speaker 3: all his travels. It's actually shown an entry for one
Speaker 3: hundred miles on the day of her murder, roughly the
Speaker 3: whole driving distance between Big Pine Key and the area
Speaker 3: of Miami where a Tolder's body was found. Even aside
Speaker 3: from the nineteen eighty nine like Parashoal murder and all that,
Speaker 3: there wasn't enough evidence to conclusively link him to the
Speaker 3: three other crimes. So unfortunately that sucks, you know, it
Speaker 3: just seems that the women like seem to suffer the
Speaker 3: same way that the other women have too, But it
Speaker 3: was just something they couldn't prove. But the ones that
Speaker 3: he was linked to were just fucking brutal, and he
Speaker 3: was now dead by suicide, so he could no longer
Speaker 3: hurt anybody anymore. Nobody really knew why he did any
Speaker 3: of the He's actually suspected, like you said, in more murders,
Speaker 3: but police are still trying to link him to those.
Speaker 3: Police actually suspect him in like thirty plus murders. And
Speaker 3: when things actually slowed down after all this here, the
Speaker 3: family actually noticed that the father, Herbert, never said a
Speaker 3: word to anybody about his son's crimes. He never even apologized.
Speaker 3: But I mean maybe he just wanted to keep quiet
Speaker 3: about everything, right, who knows? And it just sucks. I mean,
Speaker 3: all these people lost their lives, and the one that
Speaker 3: did it escaped any kind of repercussions or anything because
Speaker 3: he hung himself.
Speaker 2: He never really faced consequences, it seemed, in his life
Speaker 2: for the killing as a child, what was that psychiatric
Speaker 2: for a year. But it's weird that when he was older,
Speaker 2: if he was in that what did you say, an
Speaker 2: aeronautic company that he could get that clearance, have in
Speaker 2: that background like did he pass that background check? And
Speaker 2: one other thing you said before, how he had the clothes,
Speaker 2: the bloody clothes and the sink already. I wonder again
Speaker 2: speculation if he planned on killing his niece to get
Speaker 2: away with it, but then his wife walked in on it,
Speaker 2: and that might have been the anger because he didn't
Speaker 2: do to his wife what he did to his niece. Again,
Speaker 2: I don't know enough about this case to really, but
Speaker 2: it just seems like it's a possibility. It sucks back
Speaker 2: then because it's you want to like blame law enforcement
Speaker 2: for not doing that, but they didn't have the same
Speaker 2: technology as they do now, Like they'd have to pick
Speaker 2: up a phone and notice a pattern, and you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, manually searched would take forever because interdepartmental
Speaker 2: things just weren't really a thing back then. So it's
Speaker 2: sad that so many people died just from I don't
Speaker 2: want to call him mistakes, but just oversights by you know,
Speaker 2: law enforcement and just keeping that a secret. What is
Speaker 2: the point of that? Why what was that? Who was
Speaker 2: that benefiting.
Speaker 3: Nobody but a murderer? Yeh exactly, Like even like what
Speaker 3: he just told, like he should tell He's like, nah,
Speaker 3: just brush it off kind of thing. Right?
Speaker 2: Has her family ever said like they must have said
Speaker 2: something that they were upset about that.
Speaker 3: I believe his sister came out and told people and
Speaker 3: stuff like that.
Speaker 2: I mean, his wife, like his wife's family must have
Speaker 2: been very upset when they found out about Charlie's past.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there were a few people that were upset there
Speaker 3: and that You should watch the Doctor Phil episode on
Speaker 3: this on YouTube there.
Speaker 2: Oh, I definitely will.
Speaker 3: No, it's pretty fucking good. I'll send you a link.
Speaker 2: Yeah, please do Doctor Phil's age. That's a crazy case.
Speaker 2: It's just a it's a tragic case that at some
Speaker 2: points could have been avoidable, may have been avoidable.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, think about if he just hung himself,
Speaker 3: you know, and didn't kill any of these people, he
Speaker 3: just did all this shit beforehand and spared their lives,
Speaker 3: you know, that would have been a better fucking outcome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a crazy case, though, I've never heard of
Speaker 2: that before.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're welcome.
Speaker 2: Insanity always is fuckery, buddy, fuckery.
Speaker 3: That's correct.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, Thank Kris for coming on.
Speaker 3: You're awesome, and we will pod again sometime in the
Speaker 3: near century, which I hope you enjoyed my.
Speaker 2: Tale absolutely, Thank you. Thank you everybody so much for listening,
Speaker 2: and I hope everyone stay safe and if you see something,
Speaker 2: Say something till next time.
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