WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to OUCH. Was that a Ghost? This podcast may

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<v Speaker 1>contain graphic material which some listeners may find disturbing. Listener

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<v Speaker 1>discretion is advised, is advice to me? Now that we

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<v Speaker 1>covered that, here's your host list.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to OUCH. Was that a Ghost? I hope

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<v Speaker 2>everyone got through the storm safely if you were a

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<v Speaker 2>subject to the storms. And back again, we have Chris

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<v Speaker 2>from Twisted Tails. Thank you for coming on gracing me

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<v Speaker 2>with your presence, and Chris is going to be telling

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<v Speaker 2>the story today. Given me a break, so I get.

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<v Speaker 3>To just hope you're all kicking ass in life.

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<v Speaker 2>Kick and ass taking names.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right. Gotta do something. Mm hmm, that was your night?

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<v Speaker 3>What are you up to?

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<v Speaker 2>I just did a few recordings in a row, and

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<v Speaker 2>I was actually very productive today because I've been snowed in,

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<v Speaker 2>so I have like three bags of clothes for donation.

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<v Speaker 2>I made meat loaf and I made all the sides

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<v Speaker 2>with that. I've cleaned, organized a bunch of stuff. So

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<v Speaker 2>I'm actually pretty proud of myself.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm also proud of you, Thank you very much.

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<v Speaker 2>It's all the crap that you never have time to do.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you snowed in you're like, eh, I can't

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<v Speaker 2>look at that. I gotta do it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no, I get that.

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<v Speaker 2>Organize my laundry room. I'll take a bow. Mm hmm,

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<v Speaker 2>kitty litter freshly cleaned. Anything else? Hell yeah, how are

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<v Speaker 2>you doing today?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm doing all right. Worked, came home. Now I'm podcasting

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<v Speaker 3>with a friend.

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<v Speaker 2>Live in the dream.

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<v Speaker 3>What else could you ask for somebody's dream?

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<v Speaker 2>And you're in Canada. You could probably just order poutine

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<v Speaker 2>if you want, which I've never gotten to try. You

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<v Speaker 2>probably can just door dash out to your house. It

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<v Speaker 2>will be hot.

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<v Speaker 3>The oh, fries and gravy.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so jealous. I'm want to try that so bad.

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<v Speaker 3>Just make it. Just get cheese curds, gravy, fries. You're good,

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<v Speaker 3>or you like, make your own gravy or whatever. It's

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<v Speaker 3>not hard.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't even know where to get cheese curds.

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<v Speaker 3>Look online or the grocery store.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, I just skip the whole fight.

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<v Speaker 3>Somebody if they don't.

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<v Speaker 2>Have that too, kick an ass and taking cheese curds.

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<v Speaker 2>I like it.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh, it's good to fucking do podcasting with you again.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh so, I'm sorry for interrupting your story. Now, what

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<v Speaker 2>were you saying Charles Brandt.

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<v Speaker 3>Charles Brandt, So this dude kind of went ape shit

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<v Speaker 3>and murdered some people. Nobody could ever figure out the

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<v Speaker 3>reason as to why he did that. It was looked

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<v Speaker 3>at by specialists, doctors, all that, and yeah, it's just

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<v Speaker 3>a crazy little case. So he was born Carl Eric

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<v Speaker 3>Brandt on February twenty third, nineteen fifty seven, up in Connecticut,

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<v Speaker 3>United States of America.

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<v Speaker 2>Connecticut. That's where they get all the good casinos.

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<v Speaker 3>In all Connecticut.

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<v Speaker 2>Eh, yep.

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<v Speaker 3>Have you been in the casinos up there? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>I was there, not last weekend, the weekend before.

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<v Speaker 3>Would you play?

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<v Speaker 2>I actually I don't really like gambling that much. Unless

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<v Speaker 2>I'm playing like a Texas tournament, I'll play. But they

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<v Speaker 2>have a go kart thing on the other side of

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<v Speaker 2>the casino underneath, and that's where I spend my time,

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<v Speaker 2>go kart racing arm in the arcade like a door.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, there's nothing wrong with that. God, enjoy life.

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<v Speaker 2>And they have a new Gordon Ramsey restaurant open there,

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<v Speaker 2>which I didn't get to try because it was already closed.

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<v Speaker 2>But I do want to go back and try that.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to get kicked out of his restaurant because

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<v Speaker 2>I don't eat meat that's not well done, and I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like if I asked for something well done, he'll

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<v Speaker 2>be like, can you just leave?

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<v Speaker 3>You never know, you got to give it a try.

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<v Speaker 2>Call me a donut or something.

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<v Speaker 3>Ah, yeah, fucking yeah, no, all right. So this dude's

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<v Speaker 3>span a crime ran a mock from January third, nineteen

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<v Speaker 3>seventy one. Then you know, it just chilled for a

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<v Speaker 3>long time, and then it went on again on September

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<v Speaker 3>thirteenth of two thousand and four.

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<v Speaker 2>Wait, so he had almost like a thirty year gap

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<v Speaker 2>of not doing anything well, thirty plus.

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<v Speaker 3>Years, that's correct, madam.

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<v Speaker 2>That's strange, very strange.

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<v Speaker 3>So he was the second child to Herbert and Lisa Brandt,

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<v Speaker 3>and he was actually nicknamed Charlie by his friends and

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<v Speaker 3>people that knew him. And he also had an older

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<v Speaker 3>sister named Angela and two younger sisters, Jessica and Melanie.

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<v Speaker 3>Now his parents were German immigrants. They immigrated to the

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<v Speaker 3>United States back in the year at nineteen fifty five,

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<v Speaker 3>and his parents originally had moved to Texas before they

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<v Speaker 3>ended up moving to Connecticut, where Brandt was born, and

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<v Speaker 3>the family moved around a lot because of his father's employment. Now,

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<v Speaker 3>his father worked in the division International Harvester.

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<v Speaker 2>The fuck is that division? International Harvester? Like harvesting fruit, vegetables, cocaine, cocaine.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a choice. What did you say?

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<v Speaker 3>It was? All right?

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<v Speaker 2>International Harvester, which is the International Harvester Company, was an

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<v Speaker 2>American manufacturer of agricultural and construction equipment, automobiles, commercial trucks,

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<v Speaker 2>lawn and garden products, household equipment, and more.

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<v Speaker 3>This job here actually came with different promotions, certain perks

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<v Speaker 3>and all that. Right, So the guy was just always

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<v Speaker 3>busy getting all those perks and everything because you got

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<v Speaker 3>to get perks.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like you're just making this into a drug case.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll see if it actually goes there. No, he's moving cocaine,

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<v Speaker 2>he's sticking perks. How what's happening?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh that's funny. So because of this job and everything,

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<v Speaker 3>I kind of put a damper on things as the

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<v Speaker 3>kids were just always uprooted from school and so they

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<v Speaker 3>always had to leave their friends and then make new ones. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean sometimes that could be hard in life.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, definitely, especially a little kids. You can't form those bonds.

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<v Speaker 3>Well yeah, and then they're just like, Okay, you met Jimmy,

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<v Speaker 3>all right, bye Jimmy. See and that's it. You never

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<v Speaker 3>see Jimmy again. Yeah, you're making new friends. Just a

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<v Speaker 3>vicious cycle. Right. But this whole thing affected Charlie just

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit more than a sister. And even with

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<v Speaker 3>this demanding job, the father actually worked his way up

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<v Speaker 3>from a draftsman project engineer and he did this pretty

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<v Speaker 3>fucking well. So good for her.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Herbert, Yeah he's moving on up, dude, I think

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't say it.

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<v Speaker 3>Nothing like climbing that company ladder run by run right.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

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<v Speaker 3>So they would always take like little vacations to Florida

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<v Speaker 3>and all that. They would do this quite frequently as

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<v Speaker 3>a family. Sometimes it would just be father and son there.

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<v Speaker 3>They would go for hunting trips. This is where they

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<v Speaker 3>would hunt small game and all that. Yeah, and some

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<v Speaker 3>of his friends say, like he was just very quiet,

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<v Speaker 3>very like patient. Now, he was also known to love

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<v Speaker 3>his family, and he was always seen outside with his sisters.

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<v Speaker 3>Usually he'd be taking care of them, you know, he

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<v Speaker 3>would ride around with them on his bike and stuff,

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<v Speaker 3>just have fun. Now, he went through a numerous amount

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<v Speaker 3>of schools here, like I said, but he did obtain

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<v Speaker 3>very good grades throughout all this, like the moving and

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<v Speaker 3>all that good stuff. Yeah, he kept on power with

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<v Speaker 3>the studies. And one teacher remembers that like he wasn't

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<v Speaker 3>one to make friends. He had a bit of trouble

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<v Speaker 3>in that department. I guess he was more of a

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<v Speaker 3>loner who actually isolated himself from like the other students.

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<v Speaker 3>Not all the time. I mean, like he talked to

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<v Speaker 3>like one or two people, but that was about it.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't really blame him if he's moving all the

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<v Speaker 2>time and he's like, why even bother make this attachment

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<v Speaker 2>if I'm going to move tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 3>Well that's right. You know. Maybe he was just unattached

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<v Speaker 3>with all that. But I mean he still studied and

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<v Speaker 3>did his homework and everything right.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's tough because if you go to school to school.

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<v Speaker 2>I moved a lot when I was a kid, and

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<v Speaker 2>every school's curriculum does not line up like you can

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<v Speaker 2>move into one and they're dealing with I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>whatever part of the plan and the the party already

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<v Speaker 2>covered that that you go to, so you could be

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<v Speaker 2>missing things or you could be repeating things, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>good to be kept up with whatever obstacles were thrown at.

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<v Speaker 3>Him exactly, And in September nineteen sixty eight, the family

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<v Speaker 3>moved to Fort Wayne, Indiana, when Charlie was like eleven

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<v Speaker 3>years old by now, and things went well for a bit.

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<v Speaker 3>The father was making good coin. The family had vacations

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<v Speaker 3>every now and again, right, so, I mean it was

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<v Speaker 3>a good time for all. They would have two more daughters.

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<v Speaker 3>As time went on, it seemed that Charlie had started

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<v Speaker 3>to exhibit violent tendencies.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh, oh, that's not good.

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<v Speaker 3>No, this was around the time he was thirteen years old. Ah,

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<v Speaker 3>it's like a repeated loss of temper, fighting, wrecking property,

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<v Speaker 3>causing vandalism, property damage, shit like that. Increased use of

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<v Speaker 3>drugs and or alcohol. Lastly, you know saying at thirteen. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>like these are somethings that like lead.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I thought you said that Charlie at thirteen was

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<v Speaker 2>like increased use of drugs or alcohol and like increased

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<v Speaker 2>from water. He shouldn't be drinking period, and he's increasing it.

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<v Speaker 3>No, no, no, this is it's just like how to

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<v Speaker 3>see signs when this is going on, Like this is

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<v Speaker 3>all the steps towards it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, don't they have the the triangle, the McDonald triangle.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know what that is. Explain.

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<v Speaker 2>It's supposed to be like a test, a serial not

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<v Speaker 2>a test but an indicator, but like serial killer children.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was, oh, I know, animal cruelty, bed wedding,

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<v Speaker 2>and there was something else. I have to look it up.

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<v Speaker 2>Fire setting. So animal cruelty, fire setting and persistent bed wedding.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the serial killer triangle, the McDonald triad.

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<v Speaker 3>Huh, I learned something today.

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<v Speaker 2>Wonderful, all right, So he was doing all weird stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>He wasn't doing drugs, no, no.

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<v Speaker 3>Yet, no. So let's pass forward to January third, nineteen

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<v Speaker 3>seventy one. Surely this family had returned to their Fort

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<v Speaker 3>Wayne residents the previous night. This is following like their

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<v Speaker 3>annual Christmas vacation that was held up in Ramon Beach, Florida.

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<v Speaker 3>After the children turned in for the evening, Old Herbert

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<v Speaker 3>was shaving in the bathroom while Ilsa, who is now

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<v Speaker 3>eight months pregnant, was just relaxing soaking in the bathtub

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<v Speaker 3>here reading Time magazine. So yeah, they were just shaving,

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<v Speaker 3>talking whatever, right, little Charlie, and then abruptly walked into

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<v Speaker 3>the bathroom shot his father in the back at point

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<v Speaker 3>blank range with his father's own nine millimeter handgun. So

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<v Speaker 3>that's fucking crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>So he found that shot him out of nowhere.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so the dad actually kept this in a nightstand drawer.

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<v Speaker 3>After being shot, the dad just collapsed right there on

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<v Speaker 3>the floor by the sink that he was shaving at.

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<v Speaker 3>So by this time, the mother's just screaming, right, she

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<v Speaker 3>just seen her husband get shot in the back. Now

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<v Speaker 3>he's on the ground. Charlie then took aim with his

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<v Speaker 3>gun and shot her multiple times. She died from her injuries, unfortunately.

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<v Speaker 3>So then Charlie left the bathroom to go do another

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<v Speaker 3>hard of his plan. So as he left, the dad

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<v Speaker 3>groaned and he laid there a moment there. He was shocked,

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<v Speaker 3>but he wasn't dead. So Charlie then walked into his

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<v Speaker 3>sister Angela's room, pointed the gun at an attempt to

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<v Speaker 3>shoot her, but the gun ended up jamming here it

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<v Speaker 3>didn't go off, so since it jammed, Angela took this

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<v Speaker 3>as an opportunity. She started to wrestle the gun away

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<v Speaker 3>from her brother. Then Charlie began to choke her and

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<v Speaker 3>then they scuffled around. So during all this, the sister

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<v Speaker 3>was just making promises that they get this all figured

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<v Speaker 3>out in the end, right, Like they're fighting, and she's like, no,

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<v Speaker 3>we'll help you, we'll figure this out, right. So she

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<v Speaker 3>convinced Charlie to go gather up some blankets for his

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<v Speaker 3>two younger siblings, and then she ran to her neighbors

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<v Speaker 3>to get some help and to kind of get away

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<v Speaker 3>from him because she was just deathly afraid of him, right,

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<v Speaker 3>But she never said that to him or anything, right,

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<v Speaker 3>she didn't want him to freak out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because she's trying to keep herself and her two

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<v Speaker 2>younger siblings alive.

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<v Speaker 3>That's true. No, Charlie ended up getting blankets for the

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<v Speaker 3>younger sisters and then followed his sister out of the house,

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<v Speaker 3>and all he could see is her running away, and

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<v Speaker 3>like he told her not to leave him alone, but

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00:12:06.279 --> 00:12:09.480
<v Speaker 3>she ran ahead. Jared a gunshot. He tried to kill her,

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<v Speaker 3>so why wouldn't she run so Not long after Charlie

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<v Speaker 3>boy like kind of hoofs her in the other direction

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<v Speaker 3>to the other neighbor's house. Charlie knocked and then when

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<v Speaker 3>Buddy answered, Charlie just told him I shot my mom

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<v Speaker 3>and dad. And then the cops were called to the scene.

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<v Speaker 3>By this time, the father, Herbert, was up and about,

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<v Speaker 3>so he got interviewed by police and everything, and he

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<v Speaker 3>did make confirmation that it was his own son who

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<v Speaker 3>had shot him and killed his wife an unborn baby.

249
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<v Speaker 3>He then told police, like, not sure why he did this.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just a completely unbelievable thing to happen, fucking pretty

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<v Speaker 3>crazy out of nowhere. Yeah, Charlie had told his sister

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<v Speaker 3>Angela that he couldn't remember what he had done moments ago.

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<v Speaker 3>Angela described her brother as being in like a trans

254
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<v Speaker 3>like state which had actually broken during their struggle, right,

255
00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:00.639
<v Speaker 3>so he kind of like fucking snapped out of it.

256
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<v Speaker 3>So when an interviewed by police, Brand attributed the shootings

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<v Speaker 3>to a combination of things. Some was related to school,

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<v Speaker 3>and he stated that everything sort of just snapped in

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00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:14.879
<v Speaker 3>my mind. I felt like I never felt before. And

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00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:17.559
<v Speaker 3>then Brand started talking about another incident here that took

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00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:20.440
<v Speaker 3>place a few days before the shooting. This is near

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<v Speaker 3>the end of his family's floor to vacation, which the

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00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:25.399
<v Speaker 3>family dog was shot and killed. It was Charlie that

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00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:27.879
<v Speaker 3>shot him, So he covered this up.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's strange because he doesn't have connections with friends,

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<v Speaker 2>so you figure to rely on the dog having that

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00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:35.440
<v Speaker 2>concept in their life, but.

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00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:38.799
<v Speaker 3>Didn't happen in this situation. But yeah, after fucking around,

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00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:41.120
<v Speaker 3>like all the police interviews and all that, Charlie Boy

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00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:43.320
<v Speaker 3>was then arrested and then he spent some time in

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00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:47.080
<v Speaker 3>county jail. Now a quick thing I found here too

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00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:50.960
<v Speaker 3>that Brandt's two younger sisters actually lived under the impression

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<v Speaker 3>that their mother had been killed in a car accident,

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<v Speaker 3>so they never knew how she died. That's pretty crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>That's such an old like back then. I mean, this

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00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:03.759
<v Speaker 2>is an extreme situation, but I feel like, you know,

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00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:06.679
<v Speaker 2>presentation of your family or your status was so important,

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00:14:06.759 --> 00:14:08.759
<v Speaker 2>so a lot of families would brush so many things

279
00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:10.919
<v Speaker 2>under the rug. And that's a huge thing to brush

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<v Speaker 2>under the rug.

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00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:15.480
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, And because he was actually too young to

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00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:18.120
<v Speaker 3>be tried for murder, the judge actually made him spend

283
00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:21.200
<v Speaker 3>one year in a psychiatric hospital bran until he spent

284
00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:25.000
<v Speaker 3>one fucking year at this establishment before being released back

285
00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:27.679
<v Speaker 3>into society and then the custody of his family back

286
00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.240
<v Speaker 3>in Tune of Abou nineteen seventy two. So he shot

287
00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:32.559
<v Speaker 3>and killed his mom because one year fucking.

288
00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:36.039
<v Speaker 2>That is no consequence, zero consequence. One year.

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00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:41.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Now while he was here, three separate psychiatric evaluations

290
00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:44.840
<v Speaker 3>went on, and all the doctors and everything failed to

291
00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:48.159
<v Speaker 3>determine what actually triggered the shooting. Nobody had any idea,

292
00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:50.159
<v Speaker 3>like why he just fucking snapped it. He just did

293
00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:52.360
<v Speaker 3>what he did. I mean, there was no rhyme, no

294
00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:55.320
<v Speaker 3>reason for it. It's a good kid, good in school.

295
00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:57.720
<v Speaker 2>They're like, we don't know, but sure, let's release him.

296
00:14:57.879 --> 00:14:58.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, here you go.

297
00:14:58.840 --> 00:14:59.000
<v Speaker 4>Right.

298
00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:02.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so, like there was no psychiatric dis hease founded

299
00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:05.600
<v Speaker 3>Charlie at all. Like that was their diagnosis. He showed

300
00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:09.240
<v Speaker 3>zero signs of underlying psychological stress and that was a

301
00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:10.399
<v Speaker 3>whole Uh.

302
00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:12.799
<v Speaker 2>But if he was intelligent, he may have been able

303
00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:16.159
<v Speaker 2>to outsmart certain tests if he knew what they were

304
00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:16.519
<v Speaker 2>looking for.

305
00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.320
<v Speaker 3>That is true. Now, one psychiatrist here, this is R. J.

306
00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:29.440
<v Speaker 3>Pants Pack Pecker pack pecker packpecker, picker, picker pot Peter

307
00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:35.639
<v Speaker 3>piper picked a bunch of peckled pickles, fucking peppers. We're

308
00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:36.399
<v Speaker 3>just gonna put that in.

309
00:15:36.440 --> 00:15:37.679
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna leave that perfect.

310
00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:42.480
<v Speaker 3>No, it's not perfect. And one psychiatrist here, Er J. Pantsner,

311
00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:45.559
<v Speaker 3>He mentionined that Charlie should be watched very closely by

312
00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:48.360
<v Speaker 3>his family. And this dude had an office down in

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00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:51.799
<v Speaker 3>Fort Wayne. Now, nobody in the family mentioned anything about

314
00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:54.279
<v Speaker 3>this whole thing again, and that's what the father wanted.

315
00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:56.159
<v Speaker 2>And just put him right back with the siblings.

316
00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:57.840
<v Speaker 3>Yep, that's it.

317
00:15:57.960 --> 00:15:59.559
<v Speaker 2>I don't like to judge people. If I just find

318
00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.200
<v Speaker 2>that from the information, I have very bizarre to insert

319
00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:03.960
<v Speaker 2>him right back with the other children.

320
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:05.759
<v Speaker 3>After one year and they don't know what's on. And

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00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:09.000
<v Speaker 3>then they just relocated up to Ormond Beach, Florida, just

322
00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:11.080
<v Speaker 3>a hop skip and a jump away buddy. They sold

323
00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:15.159
<v Speaker 3>the home, the father quit his job, and boom new life.

324
00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:17.879
<v Speaker 2>That is so disturbing because he already killed one of

325
00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:18.679
<v Speaker 2>his siblings.

326
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:23.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Now, one year later, after moving and everything, Brand's

327
00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:27.320
<v Speaker 3>father now remarried and the two younger sisters moved back

328
00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:31.159
<v Speaker 3>to Indiana and Brandon Angela stayed behind in the care

329
00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:35.240
<v Speaker 3>about their grandparents. So then Charlie would finish high school. Now,

330
00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:38.320
<v Speaker 3>in nineteen eighty four, Charlie received a degree in electronics

331
00:16:38.360 --> 00:16:41.480
<v Speaker 3>and became a radar specialist for Ford Aerospace and asked

332
00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.200
<v Speaker 3>for Florida, so he moved a fuck up there. So

333
00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:47.039
<v Speaker 3>he had a good job, he worked tired at it.

334
00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:50.919
<v Speaker 3>And in between this he meet a woman named Teresa

335
00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:54.919
<v Speaker 3>Terry Helfrich. Now she had owned a retail store up

336
00:16:54.919 --> 00:16:58.799
<v Speaker 3>in Daytona Beach, and she was described by friends as

337
00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:02.000
<v Speaker 3>a very happy go look person, is an all around

338
00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:05.640
<v Speaker 3>good person. So after some time a dating here, the

339
00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:08.559
<v Speaker 3>couple ended up tying the knot on August twenty ninth

340
00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:12.599
<v Speaker 3>of nineteen eighty six. No relatives were invited to their wedding,

341
00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:15.160
<v Speaker 3>which is a little bit weird, and the two were

342
00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:17.559
<v Speaker 3>just inseparable here and they loved each other very much,

343
00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:20.440
<v Speaker 3>and they didn't have anybody at their wedding right, kind

344
00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.119
<v Speaker 3>of like a weird little request. I think, what do

345
00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:23.519
<v Speaker 3>you think?

346
00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:26.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, unless something was going on with the family, that

347
00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:26.759
<v Speaker 2>is bizarre.

348
00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:30.920
<v Speaker 3>And then the couple built and settled in on a

349
00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:35.160
<v Speaker 3>six hundred thousand dollars beach house on Big Pine Key.

350
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:36.960
<v Speaker 3>It's in nineteen eighty nine.

351
00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:40.319
<v Speaker 2>Now, Charlie a couple of years later making that money.

352
00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:42.640
<v Speaker 3>No, yeah, getting the beach house there you go. Boy,

353
00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:44.720
<v Speaker 3>Why do you get a weekend retreat when you get

354
00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:45.400
<v Speaker 3>a time share?

355
00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:47.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't like time shares?

356
00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:49.039
<v Speaker 3>Do it?

357
00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:51.480
<v Speaker 2>You get committed to the one spot, and then you

358
00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:53.440
<v Speaker 2>have the maintenance fees, and then if you want to

359
00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:55.240
<v Speaker 2>sell it, it's a whole thing, and even if you

360
00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:57.400
<v Speaker 2>don't use it, you still have to pay that annual fee.

361
00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:01.359
<v Speaker 3>Well, I don't see any harm, you know, any foul

362
00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:03.480
<v Speaker 3>to this at all. I think you should do it.

363
00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:04.279
<v Speaker 3>It's a great idea.

364
00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:06.759
<v Speaker 2>I agree to disagree.

365
00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:10.559
<v Speaker 3>I'll get you next episode. Like Christopher, I have a

366
00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:15.480
<v Speaker 3>time share now. But yeah, back to it here. Like

367
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.000
<v Speaker 3>everything just seemed to be awesome with these two right,

368
00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:23.000
<v Speaker 3>Like barely any arguments. They got along great. Neither really

369
00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:25.200
<v Speaker 3>saw the other one get angry at anything at all.

370
00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:28.200
<v Speaker 3>There were a lot of people that knew that Charlie's passing,

371
00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:31.319
<v Speaker 3>that he killed his mom. That's going to be talked about,

372
00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:34.400
<v Speaker 3>like friends and family actually try to get Charlie to

373
00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:38.640
<v Speaker 3>tell Terry about this, but he declined and checks he

374
00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:41.599
<v Speaker 3>knew nothing of what he did when he was thirteen

375
00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:42.119
<v Speaker 3>years old.

376
00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:44.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, that might be the reason why no one was

377
00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:46.039
<v Speaker 2>invited to the wedding, because he didn't want anyone to

378
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:47.240
<v Speaker 2>have that time to talk to her.

379
00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:51.160
<v Speaker 3>That could be an idea too. Now. Even Brand's sister

380
00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:53.920
<v Speaker 3>Angela actually advised him to tell Terry about the murder

381
00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:57.119
<v Speaker 3>of their mother, and all he said was like he

382
00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:59.319
<v Speaker 3>would actually just take it into her revisement. It's like

383
00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:02.880
<v Speaker 3>I'll take her. That was it. But there are some

384
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:05.519
<v Speaker 3>times here where he would have bad days. Terry would

385
00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:08.119
<v Speaker 3>actually write about these bad days and like this daily

386
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:11.119
<v Speaker 3>planner thing like a diary. I guess now this is

387
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:14.240
<v Speaker 3>back in nineteen ninety three. She actually writes about like

388
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:17.720
<v Speaker 3>his puzzling behavior. Here she wrote up about like some

389
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:20.880
<v Speaker 3>depressive episodes and like some weird talk that he ramble

390
00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:23.839
<v Speaker 3>on about, just randomness. I guess. Now fast forward in

391
00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:27.160
<v Speaker 3>September Tewo, two thousand and four, there was a hurricane

392
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.519
<v Speaker 3>actually underway in the area. Now, so this is Hurricane Ivan,

393
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:33.799
<v Speaker 3>and the couple actually lived on one of the spots

394
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.000
<v Speaker 3>that was under evacuation, so they secured the house for

395
00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:39.359
<v Speaker 3>a bit here they boarded up the windows. I do

396
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:42.039
<v Speaker 3>believe this whole thing did like twenty billion in damages

397
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:45.480
<v Speaker 3>actually throughout the United States, and it only had about

398
00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.799
<v Speaker 3>one hundred and twenty four fatalities in total, so lots

399
00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:54.759
<v Speaker 3>of damage lost fatalities. Still sucks. Yeah, do you remember

400
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:56.359
<v Speaker 3>Hurricane Ivan?

401
00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:58.279
<v Speaker 2>I do, because I have a lot of family that

402
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:01.000
<v Speaker 2>live in Florida, and I remember just when they didn't

403
00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:03.519
<v Speaker 2>answer for a day or two would freak out. But

404
00:20:04.359 --> 00:20:06.079
<v Speaker 2>a lot of them got out of that area, the

405
00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:06.839
<v Speaker 2>direct area.

406
00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:10.200
<v Speaker 3>Well it's good. Everybody was okay, yeah, hell yeah.

407
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:12.960
<v Speaker 2>Minor house damage, but that's it. That's fine. Houses can

408
00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:14.599
<v Speaker 2>be replaced. Things can be replaced.

409
00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:18.200
<v Speaker 3>No, that's true. So what happened here is their niece,

410
00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:23.480
<v Speaker 3>Michelle Lynn Jones. It's actually the daughter Terry's sister. She

411
00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:27.000
<v Speaker 3>invited them to stay at her residence near Orlando, so,

412
00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:28.759
<v Speaker 3>I mean it was nice for her to get her

413
00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:30.519
<v Speaker 3>out and uncle out of the place that they were

414
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:34.720
<v Speaker 3>being evacuated from. Man Michelle was this successful executive TV

415
00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:38.799
<v Speaker 3>person for the Golf Channel, so not a bad gig.

416
00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:42.400
<v Speaker 3>She was thirty seven years old. Golf Channel is pretty

417
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:46.359
<v Speaker 3>popular now. Throughout the visit here, Michelle captain regular contact

418
00:20:46.359 --> 00:20:49.559
<v Speaker 3>with her mother, right Mary Lou, as well as some

419
00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:53.359
<v Speaker 3>of her friends. Now. On the evening of September thirteenth,

420
00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:57.440
<v Speaker 3>one of Melissa's friends, Lisa Emmons, she was actually going

421
00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:01.480
<v Speaker 3>to come visit her house, but Jones had discouraged her

422
00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:04.480
<v Speaker 3>from coming, saying that the branch like had an argument

423
00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:07.200
<v Speaker 3>after having some drinks and all that, the whole atmosphere

424
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:10.079
<v Speaker 3>just kind of shifted and that was kind of unfit

425
00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:12.519
<v Speaker 3>to have people over. Now the couple was just a

426
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:15.240
<v Speaker 3>little pissed off at each other as all, so just

427
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:17.920
<v Speaker 3>kind of ruined the whole, like vibe for the company,

428
00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:20.400
<v Speaker 3>no fucking point and people coming over right and all

429
00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:23.200
<v Speaker 3>Michelle wanted to do by this point just go to sleep.

430
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:25.680
<v Speaker 3>She was just pissed off. Whatever I'm going to bed.

431
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.559
<v Speaker 3>Nobody would hear from them for a few days. So

432
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:31.880
<v Speaker 3>just two days later here on September fifteenth, none of

433
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:34.599
<v Speaker 3>Michelle's friends or family could actually get in contact with

434
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.799
<v Speaker 3>her at all, which was weird. She kept in contact

435
00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:39.839
<v Speaker 3>with her mom a lot, even during the whole visit

436
00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:42.039
<v Speaker 3>when like the Brants were up there and everything. Fuck,

437
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:46.039
<v Speaker 3>she talked to her mother then too, So this is

438
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:48.880
<v Speaker 3>weird for her to go two days or in any communication.

439
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:51.799
<v Speaker 3>So what a friend did is decided to head on

440
00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:55.359
<v Speaker 3>and over do a wellness check. So this was Debbie Knight,

441
00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:59.880
<v Speaker 3>So she went to the house here to check on everybody. Now,

442
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:02.400
<v Speaker 3>she was on the phone with Jones's mother when she

443
00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:04.440
<v Speaker 3>was rolling up, so she had a spare key on

444
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:06.720
<v Speaker 3>the go, but when she went there to try it,

445
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.759
<v Speaker 3>the key wasn't working for some reason. So after finding

446
00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:11.880
<v Speaker 3>the front door locked, she then tried to enter the

447
00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:15.000
<v Speaker 3>house through the back over by the caraage. So once

448
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:17.960
<v Speaker 3>she was there, she looked through the door. This had

449
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.079
<v Speaker 3>like an all glass door or whatever. Right here she

450
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:24.200
<v Speaker 3>saw the outline of a person and it looked like

451
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:27.000
<v Speaker 3>the person was suspended in the air, was hanging from

452
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:31.000
<v Speaker 3>the rafters and this was actually Charlie. He hung himself

453
00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:35.400
<v Speaker 3>using bed sheets in the house. After she found Charlie dead, obviously,

454
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:40.000
<v Speaker 3>she called the cops. Upon law enforcement's arrival, they talked

455
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:43.799
<v Speaker 3>to the friend that showed up, then they entered the house.

456
00:22:43.960 --> 00:22:48.039
<v Speaker 3>They found the body of Brand's wife and their knees.

457
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:52.079
<v Speaker 3>The whole place was locked from the inside, so there

458
00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:56.200
<v Speaker 3>was no forced entry, no sign of a struggle, nothing

459
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:59.160
<v Speaker 3>seemed to be taken in the house. To them, it

460
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:03.960
<v Speaker 3>looked like side job. And thus, with two people being

461
00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:07.200
<v Speaker 3>killed and one having killed himself, authorities quickly determined that

462
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:10.440
<v Speaker 3>Charlie Brandt had killed his wife and niece before committing

463
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:13.920
<v Speaker 3>suicide on that night. It just looked like Charlie was

464
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.279
<v Speaker 3>just frying up some fish for everybody. They were all

465
00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:22.279
<v Speaker 3>drinking booze, and police then realized that an argument had

466
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:26.279
<v Speaker 3>happened and it was most likely little after this that

467
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:28.759
<v Speaker 3>Charlie went on in his little rampage, right, so that's

468
00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:31.640
<v Speaker 3>what they were thinking. Terry had been stabbed seven times

469
00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:34.160
<v Speaker 3>in the chest. She was found lying on the couch

470
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:37.480
<v Speaker 3>and she was killed using the knives that were in

471
00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:41.559
<v Speaker 3>Jones's kitchen. And Michelle Jones was found to have been

472
00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:47.680
<v Speaker 3>decapitated and disemboweled. Ye crazy, and her heart and her

473
00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:51.000
<v Speaker 3>organs were removed, and her head was actually placed next

474
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:51.599
<v Speaker 3>to her body.

475
00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:53.240
<v Speaker 2>No indication as to why.

476
00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:55.400
<v Speaker 3>Fucked There was no indication as to why he walked

477
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:58.240
<v Speaker 3>in and fucking shot his dad, you know, killed his

478
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:01.000
<v Speaker 3>own Maybe fucking lick her head probably something to do

479
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:02.119
<v Speaker 3>with it, I would imagine.

480
00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:05.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm not a psychiatrist psychologist, but he definitely had some

481
00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:06.759
<v Speaker 2>undiagnosed issues going on.

482
00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:09.519
<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean to be trying to be diagnosed with

483
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:12.119
<v Speaker 3>this craziness back in the seventies. I'm sure they missed

484
00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:15.839
<v Speaker 3>like one or two things. Yeah, now the tail goes

485
00:24:16.119 --> 00:24:20.920
<v Speaker 3>that before he removed her organs, he carefully put her

486
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:24.799
<v Speaker 3>blood silk clothes in the bathroom sink before just membering her.

487
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:28.240
<v Speaker 3>This gruesome scene actually fucked with police too. It was

488
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:31.079
<v Speaker 3>just a horrific sight. Now, some of the cops that

489
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:33.720
<v Speaker 3>were there went to the front yard threw up. And

490
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:36.920
<v Speaker 3>these were seasoned officers too, had years into their belts

491
00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:37.200
<v Speaker 3>all that.

492
00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:40.240
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, but there's certain scenes. Doesn't matter how many

493
00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:42.559
<v Speaker 2>times how long you're on the job, if you walk

494
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:43.920
<v Speaker 2>into those, they're going to affect you.

495
00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:47.680
<v Speaker 3>Well, yeah, you're gonna remember that for a long time. Right. Well,

496
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:50.720
<v Speaker 3>even this chief investigator dude here, he said, in my

497
00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:53.960
<v Speaker 3>twenty six years, I've never seen anything like this. Let's

498
00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:55.839
<v Speaker 3>get a little bit more detailed on this case. Here,

499
00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:57.960
<v Speaker 3>Terry had been stabbed. Like I said, the thing is

500
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:01.200
<v Speaker 3>here that you know, something actually stuck out to investigators.

501
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:05.000
<v Speaker 3>It was noticed that Charlie had used so much force

502
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:07.960
<v Speaker 3>and stabbing her that had actually penetrated the couch on

503
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:08.799
<v Speaker 3>the other side of her.

504
00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:10.240
<v Speaker 2>That's definitely a lot of rage.

505
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:14.319
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Now Michelle was in her bedroom, as I said,

506
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:17.720
<v Speaker 3>her hat was cut off. He cut off one arm,

507
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:21.720
<v Speaker 3>removed both of her breasts, and it looked like he

508
00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:24.240
<v Speaker 3>was halfway in the process of actually cutting off one

509
00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:27.839
<v Speaker 3>leg as well, and then her heart was cut out too.

510
00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:32.079
<v Speaker 3>Police actually needed dental records to identify her body, and

511
00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:35.359
<v Speaker 3>there are some here that actually said she was sexually

512
00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:39.359
<v Speaker 3>violated as well. Now it was also found out that

513
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:43.920
<v Speaker 3>Charlie had taken a shower, he got into some clean clothes,

514
00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:48.240
<v Speaker 3>then entered the garage, pulled a stool between the cars,

515
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:50.359
<v Speaker 3>and then he used the rafters to tie the bed

516
00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:53.759
<v Speaker 3>sheets that he took together, and he hung himself. And

517
00:25:53.799 --> 00:25:56.519
<v Speaker 3>he left no note or any explanation as to why

518
00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:00.240
<v Speaker 3>he did any of this. So that's fucking insane. What

519
00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:01.119
<v Speaker 3>do you think about this?

520
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:03.640
<v Speaker 2>The only thing I think is it's very very strange

521
00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:06.880
<v Speaker 2>that from his mother to then his niece and his

522
00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:10.720
<v Speaker 2>well his mother and his sister or brother, and then

523
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:15.880
<v Speaker 2>to his wife and his niece thirty years. I find

524
00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:18.680
<v Speaker 2>it very hard to believe that he didn't do anything

525
00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:21.640
<v Speaker 2>else in those thirty years, because if you're going to

526
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:24.039
<v Speaker 2>have violent outbursts, I'm not saying that they're on a clock,

527
00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:28.480
<v Speaker 2>but it's very unlikely that nothing else happened in that time.

528
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:30.759
<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean, there's probably some shit that went down

529
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:33.880
<v Speaker 3>right that he wasn't caught for or whatever. And by

530
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:38.680
<v Speaker 3>now old Charlie Boyce family heard about the crime, and Angela,

531
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:42.759
<v Speaker 3>his sister, actually finally made the decision to tell police

532
00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:45.720
<v Speaker 3>about what Charlie did back in seventy one, so that way,

533
00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:48.920
<v Speaker 3>maybe that this case would start making some sort of sense.

534
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:53.279
<v Speaker 3>So she talked to investigators alone, and she spoke up

535
00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:55.960
<v Speaker 3>about Charlie's like they said thirty years old.

536
00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:58.079
<v Speaker 2>By now take thirty plus years.

537
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:02.359
<v Speaker 3>And following a search of branch residents there, it was

538
00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:07.240
<v Speaker 3>revealed that he was a monthly subscriber to Victoria's Secret catalogs.

539
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.640
<v Speaker 3>So he liked the old Victoria's Secret. Maybe he didn't

540
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:12.759
<v Speaker 3>know what her secret.

541
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:16.359
<v Speaker 2>Was, you know the secret about Victoria. Yeah, Victoria is

542
00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:18.759
<v Speaker 2>a man. A female doesn't know in that company.

543
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:23.400
<v Speaker 3>No, I wouldn't say fucking prosyeah.

544
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Bra underwear, their sweatshirt clothes because they also have pink,

545
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:28.480
<v Speaker 2>which is like at the Victoria's Secret store. There's like

546
00:27:28.519 --> 00:27:29.960
<v Speaker 2>a little off branch and they have a lot of

547
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:31.720
<v Speaker 2>clothes and stuff there too, and perfume.

548
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:35.440
<v Speaker 3>Really have you bought things from there?

549
00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:38.759
<v Speaker 2>I spend a lot of money there, too much money.

550
00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:42.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh see there you go, look you have an addiction.

551
00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:44.599
<v Speaker 3>They're also a gambler.

552
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:47.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm addicted to the go karts at the bottom of Foxwoods.

553
00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:50.759
<v Speaker 3>Did you win any races?

554
00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:53.240
<v Speaker 2>I did? But my son's like so much better than

555
00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:54.839
<v Speaker 2>me at it. He has like the F one set

556
00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:57.880
<v Speaker 2>up in his room, so he practices all the time,

557
00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:01.079
<v Speaker 2>so he takes corners better than me. So if I

558
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:03.680
<v Speaker 2>raise him, I usually lose. We'll come in second.

559
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:05.200
<v Speaker 3>That's awesome.

560
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:07.920
<v Speaker 2>I just I'm really curious in this case if they

561
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:11.519
<v Speaker 2>looked around the time. I know that you're talking about

562
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:14.720
<v Speaker 2>the Victoria's Secret magazine, but if they looked around that

563
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:19.400
<v Speaker 2>area about either missing or murders that were unsolved.

564
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:20.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I wonder.

565
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:23.640
<v Speaker 4>That could be a good little little thing to talk

566
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:25.759
<v Speaker 4>about as well. I'll get into that as well. I

567
00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:28.960
<v Speaker 4>have a little bit of stuff on that too, all right. Plus,

568
00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:31.559
<v Speaker 4>like the search and everything here they found an extensive

569
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:35.720
<v Speaker 4>collection of surgery themed books, posters, and a bunch of

570
00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:37.440
<v Speaker 4>clippings here like operations and.

571
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Stuff, posters, and yeah, that's weird. I could see books

572
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:44.920
<v Speaker 2>having an interest or having like to take an anatomy

573
00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:47.960
<v Speaker 2>a class or something, but having posters and he works

574
00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:50.200
<v Speaker 2>in engineering is very strange.

575
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:53.079
<v Speaker 3>Well, maybe he took them off the walls or something, Right,

576
00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:55.119
<v Speaker 3>like you see shit at the hospitals or something. Maybe

577
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.799
<v Speaker 3>he just took some stuff, you know, like those doctors

578
00:28:57.880 --> 00:28:59.079
<v Speaker 3>fucking posters and stuff.

579
00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:03.759
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so he has like a what a fascination with anatomy.

580
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:06.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and he also had this big picture of how

581
00:29:06.759 --> 00:29:11.039
<v Speaker 3>a heartworks posted on the wall too. Yeah. No, plus

582
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:13.119
<v Speaker 3>like another weird thing here, they also found out that

583
00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:16.359
<v Speaker 3>he had a nickname for Michelle and that he actually

584
00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:20.640
<v Speaker 3>called her a pretorious secret, which is fucking weird. And

585
00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:24.240
<v Speaker 3>friends also mentioned that he was just very like quiet

586
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:26.640
<v Speaker 3>and reserved, like nobody thought that he would do this.

587
00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:29.920
<v Speaker 3>But I mean people already knew that he did this before, right,

588
00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:33.279
<v Speaker 3>just fucking sit back and observe shit. Others say he

589
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:34.839
<v Speaker 3>was a good guy, you know, a little bit of

590
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:38.160
<v Speaker 3>centric and stuff, but he would just like kind of

591
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:41.279
<v Speaker 3>just chill observe everything, right, you know, talk to people

592
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:45.000
<v Speaker 3>and stuff. Normal guy. As the case went on, police

593
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:47.759
<v Speaker 3>heard through the grapevine here that Charlie might have actually

594
00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:52.599
<v Speaker 3>committed other murders lists and one actually happened when his

595
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:55.240
<v Speaker 3>wife was still a lot Now police actually determined that

596
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.640
<v Speaker 3>Brand's murderer, Jones indicated like past experience the way like

597
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:02.799
<v Speaker 3>he's cut up the body and everything. Plus because he

598
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:06.519
<v Speaker 3>traveled often due to his job and everything, police checked

599
00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:09.440
<v Speaker 3>out like all these cold cases and Florida that actually matched,

600
00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:13.480
<v Speaker 3>like the you know, DMO and all that, and try

601
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:15.440
<v Speaker 3>to figure out if he killed anybody else while he

602
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:18.920
<v Speaker 3>was traveling for work. So tail goes. A woman's body

603
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:22.319
<v Speaker 3>was found. This is on July sixteenth, nineteen eighty nine.

604
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:25.920
<v Speaker 3>She was partially clothed. This is the body of one

605
00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:30.440
<v Speaker 3>Sherry Parashot. She was a thirty eight year old female.

606
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:33.359
<v Speaker 3>She was discovered floating near the Big Pine's Key North

607
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:37.759
<v Speaker 3>Pine Channel Bridge. Partia's throat had been slashed to the

608
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:41.440
<v Speaker 3>point of near decapitation and it was just brutal. Her

609
00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:43.680
<v Speaker 3>head was like literally halfway off.

610
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:46.720
<v Speaker 2>With bodies speculation, of course, but if he was practicing

611
00:30:46.759 --> 00:30:48.559
<v Speaker 2>on her or trying to do it and then he

612
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:50.960
<v Speaker 2>just got better on his knees, you can see his

613
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:54.319
<v Speaker 2>evolution throughout. So who knows how many more people he

614
00:30:54.519 --> 00:30:58.200
<v Speaker 2>may have again allegedly because I don't know. No, he

615
00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:00.880
<v Speaker 2>probably definitely did a lot more than what he was

616
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:03.119
<v Speaker 2>charged for. It was hard to believe that that was it.

617
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:05.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, Plus another thing here, like her body was

618
00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:09.319
<v Speaker 3>extensively mutilated too, and her heart was removed almost as

619
00:31:09.400 --> 00:31:12.160
<v Speaker 3>like done by an actual surgeon, so he was getting better.

620
00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:15.160
<v Speaker 3>Plus the body was actually found less than one thousand

621
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:17.839
<v Speaker 3>feet from Brandt's beach house, so it wasn't very far

622
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:18.720
<v Speaker 3>away at all either.

623
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:19.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.

624
00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:24.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And when police questioned people around the neighborhood about her,

625
00:31:24.519 --> 00:31:27.960
<v Speaker 3>people remembered seeing a man nearby that night too. The

626
00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:31.519
<v Speaker 3>man was actually seen crossing US Route one near the

627
00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:35.279
<v Speaker 3>murder scene. And even his wife, Terry, actually gave a

628
00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:38.000
<v Speaker 3>statement to the cops here and she told her brother

629
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:41.599
<v Speaker 3>in law about some shit. Terry mentioned to the police

630
00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:44.519
<v Speaker 3>and her brother in law that she had suspected Brandt

631
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:48.480
<v Speaker 3>in that nineteen eighty nine killing a sherry. Now, she

632
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:51.119
<v Speaker 3>stated that brand actually came home with blood on his

633
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:55.039
<v Speaker 3>shirt that night, which he claimed was from laying fish,

634
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:58.599
<v Speaker 3>and that was pretty much it. Terry actually kept journals

635
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:02.559
<v Speaker 3>on days that like Charlie got emotional and ruin too, right,

636
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:06.640
<v Speaker 3>like I said, And yeah, she actually showed police like

637
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:08.839
<v Speaker 3>some of these kind of give them a little bit

638
00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:11.240
<v Speaker 3>more insight on who he was, how he was.

639
00:32:11.559 --> 00:32:14.359
<v Speaker 2>That's so frustrating because this if all of his information

640
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:17.240
<v Speaker 2>had been shared maybe some of these lives could have

641
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:18.880
<v Speaker 2>been saved, exactly.

642
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:26.759
<v Speaker 3>Doctor Phill even said that a fucking thing. That's funny.

643
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:30.200
<v Speaker 3>So actually, based in all this evidence here, Terry's reported

644
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:34.200
<v Speaker 3>statements and stuff, Monroe County investigators determined that Brand killed

645
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:38.200
<v Speaker 3>Cherry and they officially closed the case on May sixth,

646
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:42.519
<v Speaker 3>two thousand and six. Police started to reinvestigate unsolved murders

647
00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:46.359
<v Speaker 3>in Florida dating back to nineteen seventy three for potential

648
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:49.279
<v Speaker 3>evidence of Brand's involvement. And there were actually three that

649
00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:52.720
<v Speaker 3>checked out. Now, they were nineteen seventy eight. There was

650
00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:56.400
<v Speaker 3>Carole Lynn Sullivan. She was twelve years old. She was

651
00:32:56.480 --> 00:33:01.720
<v Speaker 3>last yeah, she was last seen at six. Now, Sullivan

652
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:05.359
<v Speaker 3>was adducted from a school bus stop in the Leisua

653
00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:10.319
<v Speaker 3>County on September twentieth, nineteen seventy eight, in Deltona, and

654
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:13.880
<v Speaker 3>her skull was found in a paint can. So this

655
00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:18.319
<v Speaker 3>was leading authorities to presume she was murdered and decapitated.

656
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:19.119
<v Speaker 2>Baby.

657
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:24.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Now, the skull here was found twelve days later,

658
00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:28.240
<v Speaker 3>less than two miles away. The flesh was gone off

659
00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:31.440
<v Speaker 3>it and there was nothing there but like this small

660
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:34.119
<v Speaker 3>patch of hair, and this is located sitting in the

661
00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:36.599
<v Speaker 3>tall grass on a slope near a pond in the

662
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:40.519
<v Speaker 3>area of Doyle Road in Saxon Boulevard. This is farther

663
00:33:40.599 --> 00:33:43.960
<v Speaker 3>west in Daltona actually, and the rest of her bones

664
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:47.200
<v Speaker 3>and all that they were never recovered. Now, the head

665
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:50.759
<v Speaker 3>was actually discovered by the nineteen year old Bob Gorman,

666
00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:53.960
<v Speaker 3>who is exploring the area in the vicinity of his

667
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:57.119
<v Speaker 3>parents' future home. So he walked over. He's seen the can,

668
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.759
<v Speaker 3>then the skull, and then all the fire ants that

669
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:03.680
<v Speaker 3>were crawling like all over it too, So he set

670
00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:05.799
<v Speaker 3>it down and he ran to his car. Then he

671
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:08.079
<v Speaker 3>drove to the nearest convenience store and then called the

672
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:11.559
<v Speaker 3>sheriff's office from there, and that'said I found her. Now,

673
00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:14.519
<v Speaker 3>at the time, Brant was twenty one and he lived

674
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:18.679
<v Speaker 3>in Valisia County at the time actually, but he couldn't

675
00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:20.840
<v Speaker 3>be tied to the crime in any other way than that,

676
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:25.840
<v Speaker 3>And even today there's actually no link to Branton Sullivan

677
00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:29.320
<v Speaker 3>at all. So just something to think about. And then

678
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:35.119
<v Speaker 3>in nineteen eighty eight there's Lisa Sanders, aged twenty. So

679
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:38.880
<v Speaker 3>Sanders was beaten and dragged from her car in Big

680
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:42.199
<v Speaker 3>Pine Key and this is back in December. Her heart

681
00:34:42.280 --> 00:34:45.519
<v Speaker 3>was missing when she was found, but it's unclear if

682
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:48.719
<v Speaker 3>it was extracted by the attacker or like eaten by

683
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:52.719
<v Speaker 3>like vultures or anything like that. Again, the last one here,

684
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:56.199
<v Speaker 3>this is nineteen ninety five. This will be Darlene Toler.

685
00:34:56.599 --> 00:35:00.679
<v Speaker 3>She was thirty eight. Toiler was from Miami who's was

686
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:04.880
<v Speaker 3>missing her head, her heart and it was discovered dumped

687
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:08.760
<v Speaker 3>in a grassy area near a highway. Brandt actually used

688
00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:12.639
<v Speaker 3>that same highway regularly, so he kept mileage record of

689
00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:15.880
<v Speaker 3>all his travels. It's actually shown an entry for one

690
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:20.119
<v Speaker 3>hundred miles on the day of her murder, roughly the

691
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:23.639
<v Speaker 3>whole driving distance between Big Pine Key and the area

692
00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:27.320
<v Speaker 3>of Miami where a Tolder's body was found. Even aside

693
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:30.519
<v Speaker 3>from the nineteen eighty nine like Parashoal murder and all that,

694
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:33.440
<v Speaker 3>there wasn't enough evidence to conclusively link him to the

695
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:38.599
<v Speaker 3>three other crimes. So unfortunately that sucks, you know, it

696
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:41.280
<v Speaker 3>just seems that the women like seem to suffer the

697
00:35:41.320 --> 00:35:43.559
<v Speaker 3>same way that the other women have too, But it

698
00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:46.960
<v Speaker 3>was just something they couldn't prove. But the ones that

699
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:49.480
<v Speaker 3>he was linked to were just fucking brutal, and he

700
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:52.719
<v Speaker 3>was now dead by suicide, so he could no longer

701
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:55.599
<v Speaker 3>hurt anybody anymore. Nobody really knew why he did any

702
00:35:55.639 --> 00:35:59.679
<v Speaker 3>of the He's actually suspected, like you said, in more murders,

703
00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:02.320
<v Speaker 3>but police are still trying to link him to those.

704
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:06.480
<v Speaker 3>Police actually suspect him in like thirty plus murders. And

705
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:10.440
<v Speaker 3>when things actually slowed down after all this here, the

706
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:13.480
<v Speaker 3>family actually noticed that the father, Herbert, never said a

707
00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:18.320
<v Speaker 3>word to anybody about his son's crimes. He never even apologized.

708
00:36:18.679 --> 00:36:20.679
<v Speaker 3>But I mean maybe he just wanted to keep quiet

709
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:25.880
<v Speaker 3>about everything, right, who knows? And it just sucks. I mean,

710
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:28.519
<v Speaker 3>all these people lost their lives, and the one that

711
00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:32.079
<v Speaker 3>did it escaped any kind of repercussions or anything because

712
00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:32.880
<v Speaker 3>he hung himself.

713
00:36:33.159 --> 00:36:36.000
<v Speaker 2>He never really faced consequences, it seemed, in his life

714
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:38.960
<v Speaker 2>for the killing as a child, what was that psychiatric

715
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:42.599
<v Speaker 2>for a year. But it's weird that when he was older,

716
00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:44.719
<v Speaker 2>if he was in that what did you say, an

717
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:49.320
<v Speaker 2>aeronautic company that he could get that clearance, have in

718
00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:53.000
<v Speaker 2>that background like did he pass that background check? And

719
00:36:53.079 --> 00:36:57.679
<v Speaker 2>one other thing you said before, how he had the clothes,

720
00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:01.039
<v Speaker 2>the bloody clothes and the sink already. I wonder again

721
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:04.719
<v Speaker 2>speculation if he planned on killing his niece to get

722
00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:07.320
<v Speaker 2>away with it, but then his wife walked in on it,

723
00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:09.880
<v Speaker 2>and that might have been the anger because he didn't

724
00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:12.960
<v Speaker 2>do to his wife what he did to his niece. Again,

725
00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:15.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't know enough about this case to really, but

726
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:19.159
<v Speaker 2>it just seems like it's a possibility. It sucks back

727
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:22.199
<v Speaker 2>then because it's you want to like blame law enforcement

728
00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:24.079
<v Speaker 2>for not doing that, but they didn't have the same

729
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:26.440
<v Speaker 2>technology as they do now, Like they'd have to pick

730
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:28.519
<v Speaker 2>up a phone and notice a pattern, and you know

731
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:33.519
<v Speaker 2>what I mean, manually searched would take forever because interdepartmental

732
00:37:33.559 --> 00:37:36.119
<v Speaker 2>things just weren't really a thing back then. So it's

733
00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:38.840
<v Speaker 2>sad that so many people died just from I don't

734
00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:42.039
<v Speaker 2>want to call him mistakes, but just oversights by you know,

735
00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:45.679
<v Speaker 2>law enforcement and just keeping that a secret. What is

736
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:48.239
<v Speaker 2>the point of that? Why what was that? Who was

737
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:49.519
<v Speaker 2>that benefiting.

738
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:53.039
<v Speaker 3>Nobody but a murderer? Yeh exactly, Like even like what

739
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:55.360
<v Speaker 3>he just told, like he should tell He's like, nah,

740
00:37:56.119 --> 00:37:57.760
<v Speaker 3>just brush it off kind of thing. Right?

741
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:03.639
<v Speaker 2>Has her family ever said like they must have said

742
00:38:03.639 --> 00:38:05.320
<v Speaker 2>something that they were upset about that.

743
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:07.880
<v Speaker 3>I believe his sister came out and told people and

744
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:08.599
<v Speaker 3>stuff like that.

745
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:12.559
<v Speaker 2>I mean, his wife, like his wife's family must have

746
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:15.239
<v Speaker 2>been very upset when they found out about Charlie's past.

747
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:18.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there were a few people that were upset there

748
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:20.360
<v Speaker 3>and that You should watch the Doctor Phil episode on

749
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:21.840
<v Speaker 3>this on YouTube there.

750
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:23.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I definitely will.

751
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:25.760
<v Speaker 3>No, it's pretty fucking good. I'll send you a link.

752
00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:30.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, please do Doctor Phil's age. That's a crazy case.

753
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:35.000
<v Speaker 2>It's just a it's a tragic case that at some

754
00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:38.400
<v Speaker 2>points could have been avoidable, may have been avoidable.

755
00:38:38.519 --> 00:38:41.159
<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean, think about if he just hung himself,

756
00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:43.039
<v Speaker 3>you know, and didn't kill any of these people, he

757
00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:46.119
<v Speaker 3>just did all this shit beforehand and spared their lives,

758
00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:49.239
<v Speaker 3>you know, that would have been a better fucking outcome.

759
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:52.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a crazy case, though, I've never heard of

760
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:52.480
<v Speaker 2>that before.

761
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:53.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you're welcome.

762
00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Insanity always is fuckery, buddy, fuckery.

763
00:38:58.280 --> 00:38:58.920
<v Speaker 3>That's correct.

764
00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:00.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you so much, Thank Kris for coming on.

765
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:04.400
<v Speaker 3>You're awesome, and we will pod again sometime in the

766
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:07.039
<v Speaker 3>near century, which I hope you enjoyed my.

767
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Tale absolutely, Thank you. Thank you everybody so much for listening,

768
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:15.079
<v Speaker 2>and I hope everyone stay safe and if you see something,

769
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:17.079
<v Speaker 2>Say something till next time.

770
00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening. If you need more content or

771
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:25.800
<v Speaker 1>just want to help support the podcast, head on over

772
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:32.039
<v Speaker 1>to patreon dot com and search ouch. Was that a ghost?

773
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:36.559
<v Speaker 1>If you need some snazzy merch, you can find it

774
00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:41.199
<v Speaker 1>at crowdmai dot com by searching ouch. Was that a ghost?

775
00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:45.079
<v Speaker 1>If you have a store you'd like to share, you

776
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:48.840
<v Speaker 1>can email it to ouch. Was that a ghost? At

777
00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:53.760
<v Speaker 1>Yahoo dot com? You can also find us on Facebook

778
00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:58.440
<v Speaker 1>and all the other social media platforms under ouch. Was

779
00:39:58.519 --> 00:40:03.880
<v Speaker 1>that a ghost? All links can also be found on ouch.

780
00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:22.960
<v Speaker 1>Was that a ghost? Dot com?