1 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: If you want to support the show and get the 2 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,039 episodes early and ad free, head on over to Freemanbeyond 3 00:00:44,079 --> 00:00:47,799 the Wall dot com forward slash Support. I want to 4 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:52,479 explain something right now. If you support me through substack 5 00:00:53,079 --> 00:00:57,159 or Patreon, you have access to an RSS feed that 6 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,719 you can plug into any podcastcher, including Apple, and you'll 7 00:01:01,719 --> 00:01:04,680 be able to listen to the episodes through there. If 8 00:01:04,719 --> 00:01:08,599 you support me through subscribe, star gum Road, or on 9 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,200 my website directly, I will send you a link where 10 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,560 you can download the file and you can listen to 11 00:01:14,599 --> 00:01:18,920 it any way you wish. I really appreciate the support 12 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,239 everyone gives me. It keeps a show going. It allows 13 00:01:22,239 --> 00:01:25,439 me to basically put out an episode every day now, 14 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,560 and I'm not going to stop. I'm just going to accelerate. 15 00:01:29,079 --> 00:01:31,280 I think sometimes you see that I'm putting out two 16 00:01:32,079 --> 00:01:37,560 even three a day, and yeah, can't do it without you, 17 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,359 So thank you for the support. Head on over to 18 00:01:40,359 --> 00:01:44,640 Freeman Beyond the Wall dot com, forward slash support and 19 00:01:44,719 --> 00:01:49,799 do it there. Thank you. I want to welcome everyone 20 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,359 back to the Pekingana Show. Mark Weber's back. How are 21 00:01:53,359 --> 00:01:53,879 you going? Mark? 22 00:01:55,239 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: Very good? 23 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: Good to be with you, very good. Yeah, I Uh, well, 24 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,799 we had talked about different subjects to discuss in our 25 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,639 meeting today and one that I guess we decided upon. 26 00:02:08,759 --> 00:02:11,479 What you reminded me that NETANYAHUO was going to be 27 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:16,719 in meeting with Trump the day before we record this, 28 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,159 and it seems to be timely. So yeah, what are 29 00:02:20,199 --> 00:02:24,280 your what are your impressions of that side show that 30 00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:25,120 happened yesterday. 31 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,319 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we discussed several topics, and I thought that 32 00:02:30,599 --> 00:02:34,840 anticipating that Trump would be coming on yesterday, Tuesday, today's 33 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,840 the Wednesday, the fifth that that would be in the news. Well, 34 00:02:38,879 --> 00:02:41,960 it's more than just in the news. I think the 35 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,680 world is certainly many many people are stunned by what 36 00:02:47,039 --> 00:02:51,159 Trump announced yesterday at a news conference along with net 37 00:02:51,159 --> 00:02:55,759 and Yahoo, in which he announced that the United States was, 38 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,840 he said, going to take over, take control and take 39 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:04,280 over control of Gaza, expel the nearly two million people 40 00:03:04,319 --> 00:03:07,280 that live there, and turn the place into a what 41 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:12,520 he calls the riviera of the Middle East. And people 42 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,039 were just stunned. The BBC correspondent who was in the 43 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,240 room said, every he has never been at a news conference. 44 00:03:19,319 --> 00:03:22,039 It was as startling and stunning as this. 45 00:03:23,879 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: Uh. 46 00:03:24,599 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 2: To me, it is very revealing about Donald Trump, and 47 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,159 I think really worth going into in great detail because 48 00:03:31,199 --> 00:03:36,240 of what it says, not only about Donald Trump, but 49 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,919 about US relations with Israel, about the relationship with net Yahoo, 50 00:03:41,439 --> 00:03:47,319 and really the larger US relationship with the Jewish community 51 00:03:47,479 --> 00:03:52,759 and and with Israel. And so I think there's a 52 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,159 lot to say on that subject. And yesterday's announcement will 53 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,879 have people thinking and scratching their head, maybe getting angry 54 00:04:03,039 --> 00:04:05,919 all around the world. This is this is It's really 55 00:04:05,919 --> 00:04:11,319 incredible that Trump made this astonishing, astonishing statement. 56 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,439 Speaker 1: Trump said that we were going to annex Canada, and 57 00:04:14,439 --> 00:04:16,199 we're not going to do that. Trump said that we 58 00:04:16,199 --> 00:04:18,319 were going to annex the Panama Canal. We're not going 59 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,720 to do that. Trump said, We're going to take Greenland. 60 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:22,920 That might still be on the table, but that'd be 61 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,319 a negotiation. Why are we supposed to take this seriously? 62 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 2: Well, because this was done. This was said, I guess 63 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,399 in a more formal way. Trump was reading from a statement. 64 00:04:37,759 --> 00:04:41,839 He had made statements like this before in an offhand way. 65 00:04:42,519 --> 00:04:45,759 This was presented in a serious way. I agree with 66 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,879 you that this will not happen for a whole lot 67 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:55,040 of reasons, but it's really revealing that Trump is pushing 68 00:04:55,079 --> 00:04:58,519 this and what it says about America and about about him. 69 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:04,600 Really it he shows that Trump really doesn't care about 70 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,800 America or the American people in the way that many 71 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,720 of his supporters, I think believe or want to believe 72 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,319 that he does. He cares about well. He brought to 73 00:05:15,399 --> 00:05:19,079 this discussion the mentality he's had for most of his life. 74 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,160 He made his money as a builder basically in New 75 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,319 York City. He sees world affairs, he sees the world, 76 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:32,240 he sees human relationships in a contractual business sort of way. 77 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:37,759 And that's why he's talking about building the turning Gaza 78 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,720 into a kind of Las Vegas, with no regard really 79 00:05:40,759 --> 00:05:43,319 for the people who actually live there. And I think 80 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,319 that's really Donald Trump's way of looking at the world, 81 00:05:47,319 --> 00:05:52,600 looking at himself, looking at life. And I emphasize very 82 00:05:52,639 --> 00:05:58,360 strongly something I've tried to get people to understand for years, 83 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:03,240 to really understand what makes this man tick. Because millions 84 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:08,639 of Americans in twenty sixteen and also in November have 85 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,199 voted for him, putting hopes in him that are really 86 00:06:12,199 --> 00:06:15,480 not going to be realized. They can't be realized. Donald 87 00:06:15,519 --> 00:06:20,639 Trump is president, and he became president in twenty sixteen 88 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:27,439 and again because he was against the establishment. He's a maverick, 89 00:06:28,079 --> 00:06:33,480 and his campaign was essentially a reactionary one, an understandable one, 90 00:06:33,519 --> 00:06:37,920 a reaction against the trends, the trajectories that have been 91 00:06:37,959 --> 00:06:41,240 in place for decades and decades in the United States 92 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,240 and Western Europe. And it's obvious to millions of people 93 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:52,480 on both sides of the Atlantic that the liberal democratic, egalitarian, 94 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:59,279 universalist ideology and the policies based on it which have 95 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,600 been in play since the end of World War two, 96 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,720 have failed. They're not working. It's not working out the 97 00:07:04,759 --> 00:07:08,240 way we were promised, the way that the people who 98 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,000 pushed all these things said it would work out. And 99 00:07:11,079 --> 00:07:19,040 Donald Trump called out the hypocrisy, the lies of the establishment, 100 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,240 and that's why he gained a tremendous amount of support. 101 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,639 But that's about as far as it goes. He doesn't 102 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:30,839 have a coherent, credible vision of what the country should 103 00:07:30,839 --> 00:07:34,680 be like other than he and he sort of thinks 104 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:39,120 people should be winners. He believes in an America as 105 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:44,240 a kind of a corporation or a football team that 106 00:07:44,319 --> 00:07:49,399 people get pride because it's it's winning. But that's a 107 00:07:49,439 --> 00:07:52,079 bizarre kind of way of looking at things and not 108 00:07:52,319 --> 00:07:55,439 and and sort of doesn't understand what I think human 109 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,639 beings are really like. He seems to think with regard 110 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,160 right now out of this Gaza project, the human beings 111 00:08:03,199 --> 00:08:06,920 are completely economical animals that all they care about is 112 00:08:06,959 --> 00:08:10,560 living well, and if he proposes a better deal for people, 113 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,800 they'll go for it. Why shouldn't they? But this isn't 114 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:20,079 This completely ignores the motivations that people have who believe 115 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,879 that they're fighting forefront and care about things more than 116 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:29,560 just their own economic well being and prosperity. This reminds 117 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,959 me a lot of what Trump. The way Trump looks 118 00:08:31,959 --> 00:08:34,279 at the Middle East reminds me a lot of the 119 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:39,360 way Lyndon Johnson looked at the problem of the Vietnam 120 00:08:39,399 --> 00:08:42,279 War when he was President. Bill Moyers, who was his 121 00:08:42,399 --> 00:08:48,120 press secretary, later talked at some length about a conversation 122 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,720 he had with Lyndon Johnson. During the war, Lyndon Johnson 123 00:08:52,919 --> 00:08:57,600 made a extravagant proposal to the North Vietnamese leader Ho 124 00:08:57,759 --> 00:09:01,559 Chi Minh and the North Vietamese government about investing billions 125 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:06,039 and billions of dollars if North Korea Vietnam would simply 126 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,240 stop its war to take over or unify Vietnam. That 127 00:09:09,399 --> 00:09:12,840 his fight in South Vietnam. In other words, he hoped 128 00:09:12,879 --> 00:09:17,720 that he could buy off North Vietnam with alluring prospect 129 00:09:17,799 --> 00:09:22,799 of a big, prosperous development of the Mekong Valley and 130 00:09:22,879 --> 00:09:28,720 of North Vietnam. And Bill Moyers related how Lyndon Johnson said, 131 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,720 this deal, this offer is so great, he can't he 132 00:09:31,759 --> 00:09:34,759 won't refuse it. He can't refuse it. And what it 133 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:39,000 showed is that that President Johnson didn't really understand that 134 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:44,360 for the Vietnamese leaders and the people who supported the 135 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,919 effort to unify Vietnam were motivated by not just well 136 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:54,120 welfare or a prosperity for themselves or their families. They 137 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,120 wanted a unified Vietnam, and they wanted foreigners out. They 138 00:09:58,159 --> 00:10:01,480 wanted to determine their own future, and they were willing 139 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:05,080 to die and kill to make that happen. That they 140 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,360 wanted the Americans out, just as they wanted the Japanese out, 141 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,039 the French out who had been there for centuries. They 142 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,919 wanted Vietnam to be a free and independent country, which 143 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,320 is eventually what happened they won. But Blinda Johnson didn't 144 00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:22,200 understand that either, and many people I'm Donald Trump, I 145 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:27,000 don't think understands that in the world, the Palestinians want 146 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,879 their independence, and other people around the world and the 147 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:36,320 Palestinians and including Zionist Jews, they something is more important 148 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,360 than just their own economic benefit and welfare. They're willing 149 00:10:40,399 --> 00:10:45,679 to die and kill to bring about their own ethnic 150 00:10:45,879 --> 00:10:55,000 or national identity and to secure that future for themselves 151 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,600 and their children. And Donald Trump doesn't seem to understand that. 152 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,279 Now that's got then this is important thing about Donald Trump. 153 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:08,080 Donald Trump has never said he's for the white race 154 00:11:08,279 --> 00:11:10,919 or for America in the way that the founders had 155 00:11:11,639 --> 00:11:15,200 envisioned it. He wants America to be a winner. But 156 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,639 a lot of that is the kind of mentality that 157 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:22,120 sees America as almost in the same enthusiastic way that 158 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,039 people are happy when their football team or their baseball 159 00:11:25,039 --> 00:11:29,039 team wins a pennant or wins a World Series. That 160 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,000 they feel good about themselves, but it's not really to 161 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,120 the benefit long term benefit of the of the of 162 00:11:36,159 --> 00:11:41,120 the people. I'm old enough to remember the enormous enthusiasm 163 00:11:41,279 --> 00:11:44,440 that Americans felt for Ronald Reagan when he was president, 164 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:46,960 and he made people feel good because he had a 165 00:11:47,039 --> 00:11:52,120 kind of vision of America as this great country. And 166 00:11:52,159 --> 00:11:56,720 Donald Trump excites some of that same enthusiasm in his 167 00:11:57,039 --> 00:12:02,600 mega followers. But at the end of the day, Ronald 168 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:07,200 Reagan signed off on an amnesty for the vast majority 169 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,519 of people who are in the country illegally at the time, 170 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,120 in the Simpson Misoli Act. And even though people felt good, 171 00:12:14,399 --> 00:12:18,320 the country continued in the same direction, becoming an ever 172 00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:27,480 more diverse third worldish, multicultural, multi racial society, and that 173 00:12:27,519 --> 00:12:31,279 trend did not change. In fact, Ronald Reagan actually helped 174 00:12:31,279 --> 00:12:36,679 to speed it up in somewhat the same way. Donald Trump, 175 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:42,440 even though he has started expelling some of the many 176 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,200 of the illegal aliens who are here in the United States, 177 00:12:46,519 --> 00:12:52,320 he doesn't really care about the character of America racially, culturally, religiously. 178 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,960 What he cares about is that America is a winner. 179 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,279 You know. It's an interesting thing that in his inaugural address, 180 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,200 Donald Trump mentioned only one American president. He didn't mention 181 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:12,159 George Washington or Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln. He mentioned 182 00:13:12,159 --> 00:13:16,039 William McKinley, and the most striking thing about William McKinley, 183 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,720 and most important thing wasn't his tariffs. As as Donald 184 00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:23,600 Trump was trying to make the point, he was the 185 00:13:23,639 --> 00:13:27,840 person who launched the Spanish American War, and the Spanish 186 00:13:27,879 --> 00:13:30,759 American War was very popular at the time. Millions of 187 00:13:30,759 --> 00:13:33,600 Americans were very excited with the idea that America would 188 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,919 become an empire. And it did. It became an empire. 189 00:13:36,279 --> 00:13:40,600 He declared war against made war against Spain. Spain was 190 00:13:40,639 --> 00:13:44,039 defeated in the United States gained control of the Philippines, 191 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,399 Puerto Rico, and Cuba, and Cuba was put under a 192 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,639 kind of American protectorate. Philippines was made a kind of dependency, 193 00:13:52,159 --> 00:13:55,399 and Puerto Rico eventually became part of the United States 194 00:13:55,399 --> 00:13:59,559 of America. Puerto Rican's or US citizens. Now that's very 195 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,919 impressed to a lot of people. America was big, or 196 00:14:02,919 --> 00:14:06,159 it was another bit. It had joined the ranks of 197 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,919 the Bredation, of the French and other imperial powers at 198 00:14:08,919 --> 00:14:13,000 the time, but it didn't make the America that the 199 00:14:13,039 --> 00:14:17,000 founders of America really wanted better. Puerto Ricans are now 200 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,080 US citizens. Is that really what Americans want? Well, not really, 201 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,840 but it makes people feel good. And Ronald Trump has 202 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,000 a kind of similar idea that he wants to expand 203 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,360 or make powerful America, and in his inaugural address he 204 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,360 even mentioned talking about expanding the territory of the United States. 205 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:41,000 But the result of his bellicose rhetoric, which your question 206 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:49,200 implies he may never actually make happen, has distressed and 207 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,120 enraged millions of people around the world. Just in a 208 00:14:52,159 --> 00:14:58,279 few weeks since he's taken office, he's managed to dismay 209 00:14:58,559 --> 00:15:04,639 and rage and confuse millions of people around the world 210 00:15:04,759 --> 00:15:09,639 who didn't feel as anti Trump or as anti American. 211 00:15:10,279 --> 00:15:14,039 If he continues this, he will make America even more 212 00:15:14,039 --> 00:15:17,840 despised than it is already with the only country in 213 00:15:17,879 --> 00:15:20,399 the world if he carries this on that gets a 214 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,759 big thumbs up from the United States it would be 215 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:27,200 would be Israel, a country he apparently is more concerned 216 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:32,519 about than any other any other foreign country. Anyway, these 217 00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:36,200 are all interesting aspects of all of this, and it's 218 00:15:36,399 --> 00:15:41,480 an astonishing thing even to propose making an American outpost 219 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:46,480 or colony of Gaza, because this is very different than 220 00:15:46,519 --> 00:15:50,559 what even his own supporters ever imagined. The mood in 221 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,399 America and even among Trump supporters is to get out 222 00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:57,720 of foreign wars, to stay away from foreign conflicts, to 223 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:02,840 not be more involved in the interminable conflicts of the 224 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,320 Middle East or in other parts of the world. But 225 00:16:05,679 --> 00:16:11,720 by his proposal to set up a US controlled rivier 226 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:16,399 of the Mediterranean in Gaza would mean inevitably getting the 227 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,960 United States even more deeply involved in the Middle East conflict. Anyway, 228 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,240 those are just some basic thoughts about this whole matter 229 00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:29,440 that's really startling. I know that I've been surprised a 230 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,679 little bit that even though Trump presented this proposal in 231 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,360 a very serious way, it hasn't been talked about as 232 00:16:37,399 --> 00:16:40,399 if it's very serious by many people here in the 233 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,279 United States. So far, It's been very startling to to 234 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,759 people outside the United States. But I think, like you, Peter, 235 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,320 they sort of think, well, what else is new? Donald 236 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:55,919 Trump's making another strange proposal, and who knows if it'd 237 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,799 ever really happen. People remember, of course, that he didn't 238 00:17:00,039 --> 00:17:04,720 follow through on very important and much heralded promises he 239 00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:08,559 made in his first administration. He promised to build this 240 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,920 big wall and Mexico was going to pay for it 241 00:17:12,279 --> 00:17:15,119 in this administer In this second administration, he doesn't even 242 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,319 talk about building a wall anymore. He was going to 243 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,480 take withdraw American soldiers from Afghanistan, and his first administration 244 00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:26,279 he didn't do that. That was finally done by Joe Biden. 245 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,480 And so people have a good reason to think that 246 00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:34,039 this is just another proposal by Donald Trump that we 247 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,920 never actually come to come to fruition. But I'm trying 248 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,200 to get to something bigger. Not just that whether this 249 00:17:40,279 --> 00:17:43,559 particular proposal will work or we'll ever see the light 250 00:17:43,599 --> 00:17:47,720 of day, but that it says something about Donald Trump 251 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,119 and how little we can really count on him, and 252 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,240 how empty the hopes are that millions of Americans have had, 253 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,759 who have put so much hope on Donald Trump and 254 00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:01,839 his promises to, as he says, usher in a golden 255 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,759 age of the United States of America. 256 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,039 Speaker 1: I don't know how many people take golden age at 257 00:18:08,079 --> 00:18:11,240 face value. I think they just want things to improve. 258 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,200 So the first thing I saw when I woke up 259 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,960 this morning was a National Security advisor saying the proposal 260 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,279 will take over Gaza is meant to pressure neighboring Arab 261 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,880 nations to come up with their own solutions. Then the 262 00:18:25,079 --> 00:18:30,359 White House Press Secretary comes out and says that the 263 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,960 American taxpayers will not fund the occupation in US troops 264 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,279 will not be on the ground in Gaza. And then 265 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,359 about two hours ago, the Israeli ambassador to the United 266 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,559 Nations said that Palestinians shouldn't be forced out of Gaza. 267 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,680 Looking at the language there, it says shouldn't be forced 268 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,559 out of Gaza, which means that it seems like that 269 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:55,079 implies to me, Well, then something, some kind of talks 270 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,880 are going to have to happen. And if anything, I 271 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:02,960 mean I immediately just wanted to get in touch with 272 00:19:03,599 --> 00:19:06,880 a friend of mine who was in the military and 273 00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:10,960 participated in war games, did stuff like that, and I 274 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,839 asked him, I said, how feasible is this? And he said, well, 275 00:19:13,839 --> 00:19:15,799 this is exactly what you'd have to do, and he 276 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,119 just listed list. It sends me a wallet text and 277 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,359 he goes, not feasible at all. So it's not going 278 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:27,960 to happen. I think you, I think you may be underestimating. 279 00:19:29,079 --> 00:19:35,200 You may be looking at the attitude of the Trump 280 00:19:35,279 --> 00:19:39,960 supporter who became politically active in twenty sixteen. They may 281 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,319 be older, they've never studied politics in their life. They 282 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,559 still haven't read a book on politics. They probably still 283 00:19:46,599 --> 00:19:50,480 believe that World War Two was a good war, and 284 00:19:50,559 --> 00:19:53,000 maybe they're like, oh, a golden age is coming in. 285 00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:55,880 But I think most people at this point just want 286 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,960 to see some kind of change in a positive direction. 287 00:19:59,599 --> 00:20:02,240 And when you take into consideration the other things he's doing, 288 00:20:02,519 --> 00:20:06,400 especially what he's doing with the USAID, pointing that out 289 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,519 and all of this stuff is coming out about how 290 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:16,720 basically like Politico was funded by was basically financed by 291 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,799 USAID by American taxpayers. When you start seeing that, when 292 00:20:21,839 --> 00:20:24,599 you start seeing him talk about dismantling Department of Education, 293 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,960 which Republicans have been talking about for forty five years, 294 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,799 but having done it, I think that people are at 295 00:20:31,799 --> 00:20:36,119 the point where, Okay, the first the first Trump administration, 296 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:38,799 I don't think there are most people who would call 297 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,559 that an amazing success, especially with the last year of 298 00:20:42,599 --> 00:20:46,440 COVID and Operation Warp Speed always gets brought up and YadA, YadA. 299 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,000 I mean, believe me, I'm old enough to remember the 300 00:20:50,039 --> 00:20:53,200 first Trump administration and I was speaking out against him 301 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:57,039 what he was doing was doing terrible things too. When 302 00:20:57,079 --> 00:21:01,000 he bombs Aria. It was the first thing. But people 303 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:06,680 are people want change. Trump is concentrating it looks like 304 00:21:06,759 --> 00:21:10,559 he's going to war at least what they call the 305 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,200 post you know, what we call the post war consensus. 306 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,519 And is he going to win? Is he in it 307 00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:21,039 to win it? Is he gonna go all the way 308 00:21:21,079 --> 00:21:22,960 and go over the finish line? Who the hell knows? 309 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,720 I mean, they might just try and kill him again. 310 00:21:26,559 --> 00:21:32,279 But I mean there's you know, I mean immediately, Trump 311 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,279 is not a politician. Trump is not a statesman. He 312 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,920 is exactly what you described. He's the CEO. That's the 313 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,119 way he's looking at it. And I think that that's, 314 00:21:42,519 --> 00:21:45,559 at least for the time being. I think that is 315 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,440 what the future is going to be, especially as you're 316 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,200 trying to dismantle a managerial state that's existed for one 317 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:52,119 hundred years. Now. 318 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,559 Speaker 2: I'm happy you say all of this because maybe, as 319 00:21:58,599 --> 00:22:04,680 a person who tries to compare what's happening with people 320 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:10,480 in the past, I put more more weight on the 321 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,240 words of people then maybe I should, especially somebody like 322 00:22:14,319 --> 00:22:20,599 Donald Trump. In effect, you're saying you and millions of 323 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:26,359 most people are so jaded by the behavior of Donald 324 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,720 Trump that they don't expect anything really until they actually 325 00:22:29,759 --> 00:22:33,960 see it happen. It's enough that things get a little better, 326 00:22:34,599 --> 00:22:38,039 and all his talk is really just to be dismissed 327 00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:38,640 as rhetoric. 328 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: I guess weller, Remember, one of the subjects that we 329 00:22:42,559 --> 00:22:46,759 could have talked about was my journey through libertarianism. And 330 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,440 one of the reasons why I left libertarianism is because 331 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:57,519 there's no good. Libertarians only want the perfect, Like if 332 00:22:57,559 --> 00:23:02,079 you're not ending the state right now, they don't care, 333 00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:04,359 you know, and you know, and I'm one of those 334 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,000 people who I would like to see Jewish power demolished, 335 00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:14,160 I mean destroyed. Yet that's I mean, that's not in 336 00:23:14,279 --> 00:23:18,359 the cards right now. I mean maybe sometime down the line. 337 00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:22,240 And I think everyone who voted for Donald Trump, who 338 00:23:22,279 --> 00:23:26,079 also concentrates on Jewish power like I do, knows that 339 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,720 he's not going to destroy, you know, go after Jewish 340 00:23:29,759 --> 00:23:33,640 power and seek to destroy it. But we're willing to 341 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,359 see what can actually what kind of building blocks can 342 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:42,000 be can be set up towards a future down the 343 00:23:42,039 --> 00:23:46,599 line where we're no longer a Zionist occupied government. And 344 00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:51,039 I mean, the way I looked at that press conference 345 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:57,039 was he was basically spitting in Netanyahu's face, right in 346 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,480 his face to him. He laid out everything he laid 347 00:24:01,519 --> 00:24:05,400 out that the Goaza was unlivable. Well, who's responsible for that? He? 348 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:10,759 I mean, net Yahoo was blindsided up there by what 349 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,440 was being said. And I don't That doesn't tell me 350 00:24:15,519 --> 00:24:18,160 that they're mortal enemies and he wants to destroy him 351 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:19,920 and he wants to see him out of power as 352 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,759 much as most of the people in Israel want to 353 00:24:21,799 --> 00:24:24,599 see Yahoo out of power. But it does tell me 354 00:24:25,079 --> 00:24:34,319 that maybe he's maybe Donald Trump is a you know, 355 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,880 the whole thing about forty chess that they talked about, Oh, 356 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,839 he plays forty chess well in the first In the 357 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,400 first in the first term, he didn't play forty chess 358 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,119 at all. And in this term, what he's doing is 359 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,839 he's just coming in with a sledgehammer and he's just 360 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,039 tearing stuff apart. I mean, getting rid of the Affirmative 361 00:24:50,039 --> 00:24:53,079 Action executive order from Lyndon Baines Johnson. Who would have 362 00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:55,400 ever thought of that in their lifetime? Who had ever 363 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,279 thought they would have seen that in their lifetime, just 364 00:24:58,519 --> 00:25:02,279 that one thing, or the j Sex prisoners being all pardoned. 365 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,359 And I'm sure there are people out there who just 366 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,759 want to blame that whole thing on him. Well, you 367 00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:09,400 didn't do anything, you know, I mean, he couldn't. What 368 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:10,720 could he do was that office? 369 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:16,799 Speaker 2: But okay, those are good points. But net Yahoo's reaction 370 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,960 was not somebody who was either blindsided or unhappy. He 371 00:25:20,039 --> 00:25:22,160 was very happy that Donald Trump said what he said. 372 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:29,359 In fact, I got the impression that Donald Trump had 373 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,119 a meeting with someone who's a lot more focused, a 374 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,759 lot more intelligent, a lot savvier than he is, and 375 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,279 net Yahoo was able to get him to bend to 376 00:25:40,319 --> 00:25:44,920 his will, as he has repeatedly, as net Yaho was 377 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:50,720 the Israel was pushing for the US attack on Iraq 378 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,799 with George W. Bush in two thousand and three, and 379 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,799 he did it even though virtually everyone who knew anything 380 00:25:59,799 --> 00:26:04,119 about autim Middle East predicted the fiasco that it turned 381 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,640 out to be. But he did it anyway. And Netnaho 382 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,480 has bragged in private about his ability to make America 383 00:26:11,799 --> 00:26:14,279 American leaders do what he wants them to wants them 384 00:26:14,319 --> 00:26:17,880 to do, I mean a specific regardless of it. With Gaza, 385 00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:22,680 Trump can say several things. He can say, well, Gaza 386 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,160 should be ruled by the people who live there, or 387 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,359 he could say Israel should control Gaza, or and this 388 00:26:30,519 --> 00:26:33,160 is what he did say yesterday, America is going to 389 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,000 control Gaza. We're going to take control of it, he says, 390 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,319 and net Nyahu probably thinks, well, that's a good way, 391 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,559 because now it doesn't look like, hey, we're just standing 392 00:26:43,599 --> 00:26:46,519 back and letting America take care of the problem. Let 393 00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:49,000 America take the blame. Let America do all of this, 394 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,720 and then we'll benefit it, because benefit from all of this, 395 00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:56,119 because after America's done building the whole thing up and 396 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,440 kicking everybody who lives there out, will get control of 397 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,240 the whole thing. And in line with that, the more 398 00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:08,359 hard line members of the Israeli government responded to the 399 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,799 plan by saying, great plan, We're all in. Let's go, 400 00:27:12,039 --> 00:27:16,240 let's do it. Public opinion polls in Israel show that 401 00:27:16,279 --> 00:27:20,839 the vast majority of Israeli Jews now want to expel 402 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,359 all the Palestinians if nothing else happens out of all 403 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,839 of this, and is happy that's right and now and 404 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:33,440 now Donald Trump is making American policy to support the 405 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,720 expulsion of all of these people. That hasn't happened before. 406 00:27:36,799 --> 00:27:38,839 That's a new thing, and that's a big win for 407 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,480 net Yahoo and for those people who want and expanded Israel. 408 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,880 It's not a diminution, a decrease of Israeli Jewish power. 409 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,440 It's a it's a win for them. And the proof 410 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,920 of that is that those people who are the most 411 00:27:53,160 --> 00:28:00,279 ardent fighters for Jewish power in Israeli hegemony are happy 412 00:28:00,319 --> 00:28:03,599 with what don Trump said yesterday. They're not unhappy. 413 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: I think the proof of it is when you see 414 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,400 it happen. That's the proof of it. The proof of 415 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,839 it is when you actually see it happen. I mean, 416 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:19,400 you're you already have the you're you already have the ambassador, 417 00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:23,920 the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations, counter signaling what 418 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,000 Trump said yesterday. Why would he counter signal that if 419 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,880 everybody's so happy about it. If Netanyahu walked out of 420 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,160 there so happy about all of his dirty laundry being 421 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,039 shared on the on the stage, and Trump talking about, well, 422 00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:41,599 we're going to take this over, why why is he 423 00:28:42,079 --> 00:28:44,720 Why is Trump immediately backing down and going now, we're 424 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,279 not going to put boots on the ground now, we're 425 00:28:46,279 --> 00:28:50,720 not going to pay for that. No, Well, it's it 426 00:28:50,839 --> 00:28:53,839 seems I mean, we can talk about his about how 427 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,319 terrible historically his negotiation tactics are, and you know, maybe 428 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,200 this is well not maybe, but you know statement statesmen 429 00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:07,880 shouldn't be negotiating this way. But I mean, well, basically, 430 00:29:08,279 --> 00:29:11,319 at this point, it doesn't look like boots are gonna 431 00:29:11,319 --> 00:29:12,839 be on the ground, it doesn't look like anybody's going 432 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,880 to be paying for it doesn't look like anyone's going 433 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:20,119 to war, and it looks like Israel has already has 434 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,599 sent THEIRS told their ambassador to walk back what Trump 435 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,440 said yesterday. So I'm i'd be interested. I don't know. 436 00:29:28,519 --> 00:29:31,240 I'm I can only go by I can only go 437 00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:33,680 by what people if we're gonna go, if you're gonna 438 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,799 if you're gonna use what people are saying as an 439 00:29:36,839 --> 00:29:42,640 example of this is hey, Israel one, Well I'm gona 440 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,559 then I guess I'm gonna have to use other people 441 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,680 their own words to say they're back and down. And 442 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:48,920 this seems kind of odd. 443 00:29:50,279 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 2: Well, well, okay, I I didn't hear that the Israeli 444 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,000 ambassador said that. He may say that this may be 445 00:29:57,039 --> 00:29:59,799 back and forth, but there's no question I think that 446 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,880 Jewish power is not at all diminished in terms of 447 00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:10,400 US policy with the Trump administration compared to how it 448 00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:13,559 was even with the first Trump administration of the Biden 449 00:30:13,559 --> 00:30:18,119 deministration now having said that, what is happening in the world, though, 450 00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:24,640 is a real rise, an enormous increase in awareness about 451 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,359 the real nature of the Israeli state, the real nature 452 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,000 of what Israel has done and it is doing. And 453 00:30:32,039 --> 00:30:36,160 the world has gotten a tremendous education since October seventh 454 00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:44,240 about just how brutal, how oppressive Israel can be, not 455 00:30:44,359 --> 00:30:48,079 just the Israeli government, but supported by the Israeli public. 456 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,039 And Donald Trump has done nothing to tamper down on that. 457 00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:57,440 He hasn't said even a single word of caution or 458 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:03,319 whatever offsetting any of that. If anything, of the press 459 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,240 conference yesterday was a green light for a new wave 460 00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:13,359 of oppression, of killing, of dispossession that Israel has been 461 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,920 carrying out. I mean, the big question of yesterday's meeting 462 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:23,200 between Netnahu and Trump was not just immediately about the 463 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,400 hostage deal. It was who's going to control Gaza after 464 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,880 the war is over? And there was a lot of 465 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,519 talk and speculation, of course, the would be something like 466 00:31:36,039 --> 00:31:39,440 some outside force would come in the United Nations, some 467 00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:45,559 multinational force, maybe the Palestine Authority. But Donald Trump has 468 00:31:46,039 --> 00:31:50,480 set all that aside and said basically Palestinians aren't even 469 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,000 going to have a say in what the future of 470 00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:54,319 Gaza is going to be. And he's on board with that, 471 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,359 and of course Netna who supports it. 472 00:31:56,799 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. 473 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 2: We have to go by what the actual policies, actual 474 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,480 results of the policies are, and on that basis, Israel 475 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:11,839 is stronger than ever. Having said that, it's actually weaker 476 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,920 in the sense that its position in the world is 477 00:32:16,039 --> 00:32:18,079 much much less than it was a year and a 478 00:32:18,079 --> 00:32:23,559 half ago. I mean, Israel is held in net Yahu 479 00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:26,960 is in danger of being arrested in half many of 480 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,720 the countries of the world because there's an international warrant 481 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,400 for his arrest. But I suppose what we can say 482 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,240 all of this is by what happened yesterday. And even 483 00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:43,839 to have a government placed like Donald Trump that nobody 484 00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:46,799 can count on its leaders meaning what they say or 485 00:32:46,839 --> 00:32:51,000 saying what they mean. This is a sign of a country, 486 00:32:51,079 --> 00:32:54,160 or of a government or a society that is really 487 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:59,200 falling apart. Because a healthy society is not one that 488 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,759 is saying one thing and doing another and playing as 489 00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:06,119 you say, for d chess. It has to or it 490 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:11,759 has to be to be stable, to be predictable is 491 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,839 important for any healthy society. And Donald Trump, I guess 492 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,920 you're saying that the chaos and the confusion he sows 493 00:33:20,039 --> 00:33:23,559 is all part of a bigger plan. Well, maybe it is, 494 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,440 but the consequences for America and for any country and 495 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:31,640 for the world are very bad. People want and crave 496 00:33:31,799 --> 00:33:36,839 and have an understandable desire for at least predictability and 497 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,039 a clear vision of the future, and then policies that 498 00:33:40,119 --> 00:33:43,279 try to go to that vision. Donald Trump doesn't have that, 499 00:33:43,799 --> 00:33:46,000 and he's not able to do that, and he wasn't 500 00:33:46,039 --> 00:33:48,240 able to do it in the first administration. He's not 501 00:33:48,319 --> 00:33:50,440 able to do it. Now, You're right, we have to 502 00:33:50,559 --> 00:33:55,519 judge by the end result, and the end result is 503 00:33:57,039 --> 00:34:02,759 I mean, he's a reactionary president. Personifies the unhappiness that 504 00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:07,559 millions of Americans have, people are throughout the European Western 505 00:34:07,559 --> 00:34:10,719 world have with the direction we've been going in, and 506 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,199 he's opposed to that. But he has no real vision 507 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,679 himself of the kind of country he does want to 508 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,119 have his anyway, That's so yeah, we have to, of 509 00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:23,559 course see and I've said that, I've been saying that 510 00:34:23,599 --> 00:34:26,440 for months now. I'm very happy that that Trump is 511 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,599 in office, if for no other reason that finally we'll 512 00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:32,320 get to see what the policies actually turn out to be. 513 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,800 And so that's I guess beyond that, neither of us 514 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,840 are able to say with any certain what will happen, 515 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,119 because Donald Trump is the kind of man that he is. 516 00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and I agree with you on much of that. 517 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,880 I would ask and I'm not implying at all that 518 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,239 this is what he's doing, as far as like, I'm 519 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,800 not implying at all that he is playing forty chest 520 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:03,880 to destroy Jewish p to say one thing, even is 521 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,360 even get other countries and other cultures mad at us. 522 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,519 But I mean if there was someone who came along 523 00:35:10,559 --> 00:35:13,039 who did decide that he was going to take down 524 00:35:13,079 --> 00:35:16,880 Jewish power, try to take down Jewish power, and he 525 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,519 did stuff like this that he was completely intent on it, 526 00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:22,320 and he said one thing out of one side of 527 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,800 his mouth, but he was meaning another, I don't think 528 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:26,800 we'd have a problem with that. 529 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 2: Right right. I guess another way to look at this 530 00:35:33,159 --> 00:35:38,719 is a Donald Trump administration more likely than a Democratic 531 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,360 administration to speed up the dissolution of America, to speed 532 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,719 up the decline and the breakdown of America. This is 533 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,800 an argument and a discussion that many, many people have 534 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,599 been having for several years, and you could there's good 535 00:35:55,639 --> 00:35:57,840 points to be made on both sides of that argument. 536 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,719 Is America more likely to break up? Is Donald Trump 537 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,960 more likely to speed up the break down of America? 538 00:36:06,119 --> 00:36:08,800 Or is a Democratic Is Kamala Harris or Joe Biden 539 00:36:09,519 --> 00:36:13,679 more likely to do that? I guess we'll never know, 540 00:36:14,199 --> 00:36:18,360 but Donald Trump is contributing in his own way to 541 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:23,480 that to that breakdown, by uh, by his by the 542 00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:26,639 by Donnelly, his rhetoric, but even his actions. 543 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: Well, you know, what I would say is, and I've 544 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,559 been saying this for a while now, at least for 545 00:36:32,599 --> 00:36:37,920 over a year, is that I've concentrated. I've been talking 546 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,599 about localism, for concentrating on your local area more than 547 00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:44,920 anything else, for you know, for years now. And you know, 548 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,239 I know Jared Jared Taylor has been really pushing that 549 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,840 forward a lot lately. But what I would say is, 550 00:36:51,639 --> 00:36:55,440 if Donald Trump is ushering in the destruction of the 551 00:36:55,519 --> 00:36:59,920 United States, or if he's if he's ushering in a 552 00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:03,519 golden age, local politics is going to be more important 553 00:37:03,519 --> 00:37:07,840 than ever because along with that destruction, obviously we know 554 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,039 what comes along with destruction. We're going to have to 555 00:37:10,039 --> 00:37:12,199 rely upon ourselves. We're gonna have to rely upon our 556 00:37:12,199 --> 00:37:14,440 neighbors and our brothers, the people you go to church with, 557 00:37:14,519 --> 00:37:17,400 all that. But if there's a golden age, a golden 558 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:24,519 age immediately implies that welfare and handouts get cut off, 559 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:31,079 so you would have to start planning locally either way. 560 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,719 So the way I look at it is if he 561 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,239 is ushering in the destruction in the United States, or 562 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,119 he's ushering in a golden age, local politics is the 563 00:37:39,159 --> 00:37:41,880 only way to go because either way, you're going to 564 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,000 have to rely upon the most the people who are 565 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:50,639 the most immediate around you, you know, whichever fork in 566 00:37:50,679 --> 00:37:51,519 the road that takes. 567 00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:57,760 Speaker 2: I don't disagree at all. No, that's all true. And yeah, 568 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:03,079 it almost doesn't matter whether a Democratic or Republican president 569 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:08,440 UH is more likely to hasten the breakdown of the 570 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,320 country or not. What's important is that we concentrate on 571 00:38:12,599 --> 00:38:16,760 each of us doing what we can in our own way, locally, 572 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,960 in our own whether from our own from our own 573 00:38:20,039 --> 00:38:23,119 vantage point, to do what we can, to raise awareness 574 00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:26,159 and to do what we can. That's that's that's I 575 00:38:26,199 --> 00:38:27,559 agree completely. 576 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,559 Speaker 1: Well, here's here's something I'll ask you. So, I've heard 577 00:38:32,639 --> 00:38:35,599 numbers coming out of Israel that, you know, people just 578 00:38:35,639 --> 00:38:38,679 don't like net Yahoo. Now, whether I know there is 579 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:43,159 a huge liberal leftist like, you know, a multi cultural 580 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,920 like Tel Aviv is the gayest considered to be the 581 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,440 gayest city on the planet, these aren't people that like 582 00:38:48,559 --> 00:38:52,239 net Yahoo. There's other factions. I think net Yahoo isn't 583 00:38:52,519 --> 00:38:58,239 doing enough to destroy the to destroy the Palestinians. I've 584 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,000 also heard that up as many as thirty thousand small 585 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,920 businesses have filed bankruptcy in the last eighteen months because 586 00:39:06,039 --> 00:39:09,280 you just can't do business in a country that's getting 587 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,960 bombed all the time. Is you have people coming over 588 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,280 the border in the north looking to kill, you know, 589 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:23,679 looking to kill Israelis no matter what well absent putting 590 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,440 troops on the ground, and you know, putting American troops 591 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,719 on the ground double you know, tripling the amount of 592 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,400 fighting people there and pouring money into it. I mean, 593 00:39:33,599 --> 00:39:39,360 does does Israel, even with Donald Trump's support, even if 594 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,360 it's only verbally, does Israel survive this? 595 00:39:45,079 --> 00:39:51,159 Speaker 2: I've been involved with Israel and Palestine issue since I 596 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,320 was well for many years. For a while I worked 597 00:39:55,519 --> 00:40:00,639 for in his day, probably the most prominent now spoken 598 00:40:00,679 --> 00:40:05,719 anti Zionist, a Jewish writer in America, Alfred Lilienthal. This 599 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:11,639 is back in the nineteen seventies, and I've been following 600 00:40:11,679 --> 00:40:15,119 this for a long time, and I've always regarded Zionism 601 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:20,519 as an aberration in Jewish history. With very few exceptions, 602 00:40:20,559 --> 00:40:25,840 throughout all of history, Jews have been successful not in 603 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:30,280 a state of their own, but as a people who 604 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:37,599 thrive on developing a relationship with another host population. And 605 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:42,920 Jews have are very attuned to varying their message and 606 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,519 how they act in each country with a very very 607 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,320 fine tune awareness of the mentality of the people among 608 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,679 whom they among whom they live, and that works for 609 00:40:54,679 --> 00:40:58,519 a while. That makes from one place after another, whether 610 00:40:58,599 --> 00:41:06,639 in Babylon or Egypt or Spain in the fourteen fifteenth centuries, Europe, 611 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:11,599 the United States, Jews are very attuned and they also 612 00:41:11,639 --> 00:41:14,320 help shape the media on how people think in whatever 613 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:19,960 society they're in. But the result has always been the same, 614 00:41:20,039 --> 00:41:24,480 The same cycle repeats itself over and over. Eventually, people 615 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,039 become very unhappy with the Jewish role in their society 616 00:41:29,519 --> 00:41:35,920 and inevitably there's a reaction. The Jewish population is kicked out, killed, 617 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,159 driven out, and Jews understand that the Jewish narrative of 618 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,800 history is that this cycle repeats itself over and over, 619 00:41:44,599 --> 00:41:46,800 and then Jews go to a new country and the 620 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:53,639 whole pattern, the whole cycle repeats itself. And so Zionism 621 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,840 is really an aberration because the whole premise of Zionism 622 00:41:58,159 --> 00:42:01,159 is that Jews should become a normal people. They should 623 00:42:01,199 --> 00:42:03,840 have a country of their own, and Jews should live there, 624 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,960 and if they don't live there, they shouldn't be considered 625 00:42:07,039 --> 00:42:10,199 Jews anymore. They should either go or they'll be assimilated 626 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:17,440 and gone. And that vision of how Jews should be 627 00:42:18,159 --> 00:42:22,199 is what Zionism is. Modern Zionism was supposed to be. 628 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,639 It's laid out in the Manifesto of Zionism the Jewish 629 00:42:25,679 --> 00:42:29,519 State by Theodore Hertzel, the Jewish writer who coupended in 630 00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:34,559 eighteen ninety seven, and at first it was reaction resistance 631 00:42:34,599 --> 00:42:38,440 to it, but it became increasingly a popular idea. Now 632 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,760 the problem is that the State of Israel has never 633 00:42:44,119 --> 00:42:47,400 fulfilled its promise. It was supposed to be quote a 634 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,760 normal country, a self sufficient country. That's not happened. From 635 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,639 its very beginning to the present, Israel to even stay 636 00:42:55,679 --> 00:43:02,000 in existence has required tremendous outside help and support from outside, 637 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,440 not only from Jews outside of Israel, but more importantly 638 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,360 from governments, especially the United States government to a lesser extent, 639 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,679 the German government and others have given Israel and allowed 640 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:18,079 it even maintained so that it could even stay in existence. Secondly, 641 00:43:20,199 --> 00:43:23,159 the Jews were supposed to go to move in Israel. 642 00:43:23,559 --> 00:43:26,000 The truth is that most Jews prefer not to live 643 00:43:26,039 --> 00:43:29,639 in Israel. They do better individually living outside of Israel. 644 00:43:30,039 --> 00:43:34,599 And it's especially true now because Jews are actually safer 645 00:43:34,639 --> 00:43:40,119 and live better in Chicago or Berlin or even Moscow 646 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:46,039 than they do in Israel itself. And Israel also supposed 647 00:43:46,039 --> 00:43:48,000 to be a normal country, and that it was supposed 648 00:43:48,039 --> 00:43:49,880 to live in sort of peace and some sort of 649 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,840 tolerable relationship with its neighbors. In fact, from nineteen forty 650 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,599 eight when Israel is founded the present, as everyone knows, 651 00:43:57,679 --> 00:44:02,800 it's been in constant oil and conflict with people in 652 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,119 and in and around it's it's borders, and so it's 653 00:44:06,159 --> 00:44:10,400 been an abnormal country in that way, and increasingly Jews 654 00:44:11,079 --> 00:44:14,639 see this. They they're not happy about it. They're embarrassed. 655 00:44:14,679 --> 00:44:18,159 Increasingly Jews are outside of Israel are embarrassed by their country. 656 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:24,360 And so it's it's it's it's an aberration. And you 657 00:44:24,599 --> 00:44:29,159 you touched on just the economic situation in Israel, proper Israel. 658 00:44:31,079 --> 00:44:33,400 The cost of living is very high in Israel. It's 659 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,320 not easy to live there. And not just that there's 660 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,159 wars and problems like that, but there's a kind of 661 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,039 tension to Israel. You talked about. Benjamin Natyaho is not 662 00:44:45,159 --> 00:44:48,840 very popular, that's true. He's held in a kind of contempt. 663 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,119 And one of the remarkable things is when Benjamin natna 664 00:44:52,199 --> 00:44:54,679 who comes to the United States, at least before this visit, 665 00:44:55,159 --> 00:44:59,280 he always spoke to Congress and got standing ovations, something 666 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,440 that the US Congress does not give to any American leader, 667 00:45:03,519 --> 00:45:06,679 and the Israeli Parliament does not even give to net Yahoo. 668 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,960 He's more rapturously applauded in the United States than he 669 00:45:11,039 --> 00:45:13,800 is in his own country. Now, having said that, the 670 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:18,199 problem in Israel is that there's no other figure as 671 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:24,079 a droit cunning capable of holding together a fragile coalition 672 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,000 in the country, and the country has divided as Israel 673 00:45:27,039 --> 00:45:29,880 as a mendiement net Yahoo. He has problems within his 674 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,960 own coalition, but there's no obvious replacement for him, and 675 00:45:34,039 --> 00:45:37,239 even people that don't like him will still support him 676 00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:42,639 because they're even less happy with any alternative. That's a 677 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:47,760 expression of just how fragile, how divided, how confused Israeli 678 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,559 society is. Internally, he has a bare majority in the 679 00:45:51,599 --> 00:45:57,320 Parliament of Israel, he has factions and disagreements within his 680 00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,920 own administration, and he also, I mean, this is a 681 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,679 common view in Israel is that Meggia mi Meta who 682 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,280 wants to continue the conflict with Gaza and the Palestinians 683 00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:15,000 because once peace quote unquote returns, then it'll go. Then 684 00:46:15,039 --> 00:46:17,880 the effort will be resumed to try to bring him 685 00:46:18,559 --> 00:46:24,559 to justice for corruption. He's considered even by Israelis, he's 686 00:46:24,559 --> 00:46:31,039 considered a slippery, deceitful, dangerous sort of fellow. But he's 687 00:46:31,039 --> 00:46:33,400 sort of our guy, and so they support him in 688 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,840 that way. There's not a single world leader who's dealt 689 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,519 with net Yahu over the years who doesn't privately think 690 00:46:40,599 --> 00:46:47,360 he's mendacious, that he's a liar, and virtually every I 691 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:53,280 mean memno Macron in France, Barack Obama, Joe Biden, everyone 692 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,760 privately knows that that's the kind of man Netnah who is. 693 00:46:57,199 --> 00:46:59,840 But that's that's the reality, and so they deal with 694 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,800 it and they don't talk about it publicly. Now, so 695 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:08,039 the Israeli experiment maybe even coming to an end. Elon 696 00:47:08,159 --> 00:47:13,199 Pope is a very prominent Israeli historian. He's a critic 697 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,360 of Netanyahu, He's a critic of the Zionist experiment. He's 698 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:21,880 done a great deal of pioneering work in showing how 699 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:27,760 right from nineteen forty eight, Israeli leaders embarked on a 700 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:33,239 conscious effort to kick out, expel as many non Jews 701 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,960 as possible from the new Jewish state, something that was 702 00:47:37,079 --> 00:47:40,400 covered up or not really very well understood. And Elon 703 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,639 Pope just said in a recent interview, he said he 704 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,760 thinks that the Zionism is coming to an end, Israel's 705 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:55,079 and it's really even though it's more blustrous and boisterous 706 00:47:55,119 --> 00:47:58,599 and aggressive right now, these are signs really of weakness 707 00:47:58,639 --> 00:48:02,000 that Israel may be, he thinks is coming to an end. 708 00:48:02,039 --> 00:48:05,679 He says, I don't like to make predictions as a historian, 709 00:48:06,199 --> 00:48:09,159 but these are signs really of a society that's actually 710 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,119 very weak. I think a similar thing could be said 711 00:48:12,119 --> 00:48:16,920 about the United States. I've made comparisons with the United 712 00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,760 States today and the British Empire. In nineteen thirty nine, 713 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:25,199 when Britain declared war against Germany, the British Empire was 714 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,800 larger than it ever had been. After World War One, 715 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:32,559 the British Empire got even bigger, taking, as France did, 716 00:48:32,599 --> 00:48:38,360 some of the parts of the former German and Ottoman 717 00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:43,199 Turkish Empire. But Britain was already on the decline. For 718 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:47,440 people who understood the rise and fall of countries and 719 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,440 of societies, it was already obvious that the time, during 720 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,920 the time of the Boer War and already during the 721 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,679 First World War, that Britain was not a very healthy society. 722 00:48:57,199 --> 00:49:03,159 And people confuse the outward express of power empires, military 723 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,800 and so forth. In nineteen thirty nine, the British Navy 724 00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,880 was still the number one, by far, most important naval 725 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:14,000 power in the world. But Britain was really weak, really internally, 726 00:49:14,039 --> 00:49:16,320 it was not a healthy society. And that's true of 727 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,760 the United States today. It's not a healthy society. There's 728 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:24,440 something very going back to Israel. Yes, I mean, I'm 729 00:49:24,559 --> 00:49:28,079 going to double down on this. It has severe problems. 730 00:49:28,519 --> 00:49:32,480 The birth rate of Ashkenazi Jews, of better educated Jews, 731 00:49:32,639 --> 00:49:37,280 is very low. And the population of Israel proper I 732 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,719 mean Israel, not including the West Bank or Gaza, which 733 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:45,880 is about twenty percent Arab or non Jewish anyway, increasingly 734 00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,719 is there's a higher birth rate among the non Jewish 735 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:54,559 Arab population and among Orthodox Jews. And Orthodox Jews themselves 736 00:49:54,599 --> 00:49:59,320 have their own reservations about the Israelians, the Zionists experiment 737 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,320 and so forth, and they don't fit very well into 738 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,639 a modern or a secular society. In fact, that one 739 00:50:05,639 --> 00:50:08,800 of the biggest arguments going on in Israel in recent 740 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:13,360 years is whether the ultra Orthodox should even be recruited 741 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,360 into the military. But these are all signs of internal 742 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:21,400 problems within Israeli society. But anyway, to sort of sum up, yeah, 743 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:26,159 there's some big, major problems in Israeli society, highlighted by 744 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:32,000 two major things. One is many, many Jews, even Israeli Jews, 745 00:50:32,079 --> 00:50:34,639 prefer not even to live in Israel. They want to 746 00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,800 lead because they can make a better living for themselves elsewhere. 747 00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,199 And that's not unusual in Jewish history, the vast majority 748 00:50:42,199 --> 00:50:45,039 of Jews throughout history have lived among non Jews, and 749 00:50:45,039 --> 00:50:47,679 they do well better that way than on their own. 750 00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:51,760 And second, the events of the last few years have 751 00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:58,199 underscored that the state of Israel requires needs huge infusions 752 00:50:58,199 --> 00:51:00,840 of support and aid from outside, in this case the 753 00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,679 United States, even to stay in place. And so those 754 00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:09,360 are signs really of great weakness in Israel. But anyway, though, 755 00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,719 that's my kind of response to your question about what's 756 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,679 the future of Israel or how how it's looking. 757 00:51:17,199 --> 00:51:19,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say that, you know, zion Is the 758 00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:25,719 state of Israel is basically an anachronism now, but you 759 00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:30,880 know there were before Zionism there was a problem. Yeah. 760 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,920 I'm reading two hundred years together now with doctor Matthew 761 00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:39,199 Rafael Johnson, and it comes back to the question of 762 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:45,639 how do you how do you live in a society? 763 00:51:45,679 --> 00:51:48,599 How do you have a society when there is a 764 00:51:48,639 --> 00:51:57,800 group of people, very small, very well organized, very motivated 765 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,840 in most cases have a lot of cases have international financing. 766 00:52:02,519 --> 00:52:06,280 I mean, how do you live with them? How is 767 00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,480 you how do you have a society and a culture 768 00:52:08,519 --> 00:52:12,719 of your own? When history tells us when they come 769 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:17,400 into your society, they take they seek to take over. 770 00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:22,719 Speaker 2: Right. Well, this is what's commonly called the Jewish question. 771 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,079 I know that's considered more or less anti semitic even 772 00:52:27,079 --> 00:52:30,400 to use the phrase, but it's the phrase that everybody used, 773 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,880 including Jews used it. The Jewish question is basically a 774 00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,719 perpetually puzzling one. What's the relationship and should be the 775 00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:43,239 relationship between yond Jews and non Jews in society. That's 776 00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,920 a difficult one because and Theodore Hertzel in his book 777 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,880 The Jewish State lays this out rather well. He said, 778 00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:55,880 the reason there's tension and problems between Jews and non Jews, 779 00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,920 and has been from the beginning to the present, is 780 00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:04,159 because of the peculiar nature of the Jewish relationship to 781 00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:09,840 non Jews. Jews insist on maintaining a separate identity and 782 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,800 a separate agenda even as they live among people different 783 00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:19,039 than themselves. And so Theaterre Hertzel lays this out that 784 00:53:19,079 --> 00:53:23,679 it's absolutely understandable. In fact, it would be bizarre otherwise 785 00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,760 that non Jews resent this because Jews are not really 786 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:33,719 fully in their agenda, and their identity and their interests 787 00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:37,440 are not the same as the people among whom they live, 788 00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:41,960 that inevitably leads to this tension and conflict and theatre 789 00:53:42,039 --> 00:53:47,239 Hertzel lays this out in the Jewish State, that that's inevitable, 790 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,480 and he says he understands that. That's why he called 791 00:53:50,559 --> 00:53:54,119 Zionism the final solution. That's the term he used to 792 00:53:54,199 --> 00:53:59,360 the Jewish question. Now and every society has to go 793 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,920 through a cross or has gone through a process like that. 794 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,800 What I was, I mean, the assumption in America for many, 795 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:11,440 many years is that the magic of American society would 796 00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:14,280 make everyone sort of assimilate into a new kind of 797 00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,960 American identity. When William Buckley, when William Buckley was in 798 00:54:19,039 --> 00:54:23,119 his prime, he was by far the most influential so 799 00:54:23,199 --> 00:54:27,639 called conservative thinker for decades. He once said, Well, with 800 00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:31,639 the passage of time, he said, and the World War 801 00:54:31,679 --> 00:54:34,679 two gets receives further into the past, Jews will just 802 00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:39,119 become like everyone else, and this kind of Jewish problem 803 00:54:39,199 --> 00:54:43,519 will go away. And he also predicted that as with 804 00:54:43,559 --> 00:54:48,199 the passage of time, Blacks would stop thinking of themselves 805 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:51,199 about in terms of the legacy of slavery. Well he 806 00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,320 was wrong, but the point is that was the assumption 807 00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:58,840 that Americans operated on for many, many years. The assumption is, well, okay, 808 00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,960 we have these different identities that are left over from 809 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,800 the old country, you could say, but with the passage 810 00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,199 of time, everybody will sort of assimilate and will all 811 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:12,800 sort of be Americans. That's the kind of ideal that 812 00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:17,320 was propagated again and again in the United States. That's 813 00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:22,599 all changed now. It's very clear that Jews, of course 814 00:55:22,679 --> 00:55:25,840 not all Jews, but the majority of Jews still regard 815 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,760 themselves as a distinct people. And this is the whole 816 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,960 premise of the whole Jewish thing. I mean, and as 817 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:35,719 you well know. I mean, this is laid out by 818 00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,360 any number of writers, and it's in the Old Testament, 819 00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,679 It's in the Jewish Torah that Jews regard themselves as 820 00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,840 not like other people. There are separate people, and this 821 00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:51,239 is a central defining feature of the Jewish identity. So 822 00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:57,559 today that's all fallen apart as the kind of idea, 823 00:55:57,639 --> 00:56:02,039 this liberal democratic idea of a proposition society is all 824 00:56:02,119 --> 00:56:06,840 falling apart, and people can see that, and that that's 825 00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,440 the big challenge I think for the years ahead, is 826 00:56:10,599 --> 00:56:16,639 that all these other groups Jews, Blacks and so forth, 827 00:56:17,599 --> 00:56:21,239 are conscious of themselves as a as a different people 828 00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,800 that is not like white America or not part of 829 00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:28,800 the American idea. But white Americans, for the most part, 830 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:33,880 still insist on upholding what is basically a delusional idea 831 00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:39,159 that we can have a kind of European Western society 832 00:56:39,679 --> 00:56:44,440 even if the population is no longer Westerners, no longer Europeans, 833 00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,400 and that, I think is the is the great challenge, 834 00:56:47,559 --> 00:56:52,199 you know. In his inaugural address, Donald Trump went out 835 00:56:52,199 --> 00:56:57,000 of his way to thank black Americans and Hispanic Americans 836 00:56:57,039 --> 00:56:59,800 who voted for him. He didn't mention white Americans. And 837 00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,880 the reason he didn't is because, I think for him 838 00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,079 and for his own people, they take that for granted. 839 00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:10,559 They think that's not even necessary to mention. And for 840 00:57:10,599 --> 00:57:13,719 a long time in American history, when the population was 841 00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:18,679 ninety or eighty five percent white and non whites were 842 00:57:18,679 --> 00:57:23,000 basically invisible, then they were able to sort of take 843 00:57:23,039 --> 00:57:26,960 that for granted, to take for granted that the view 844 00:57:27,039 --> 00:57:30,519 that almost everybody, including foreigners, had that America is this 845 00:57:30,599 --> 00:57:33,960 kind of white country. But the white population, the European 846 00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:38,119 population of America now is, or very well very soon 847 00:57:38,199 --> 00:57:41,559 will be a minority, and that will have consequences. That 848 00:57:41,679 --> 00:57:46,559 trend has been continuing will continue in the years ahead, 849 00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:51,039 regardless of whether Donald Trump deports a million or two 850 00:57:51,119 --> 00:57:54,159 million or not illegal aliens in the United States. That 851 00:57:54,320 --> 00:58:00,440 same basic demographic trajectory is still continuing. But anyway, point 852 00:58:00,559 --> 00:58:04,760 is that we're coming to a time where it's no 853 00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:09,039 longer possible to just take for granted what used to 854 00:58:09,119 --> 00:58:12,559 be taken for granted, not only about white Americans and 855 00:58:12,639 --> 00:58:15,679 their identity in this country called the United States of America, 856 00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:20,960 but also for Jews. And we're coming to a time 857 00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:23,960 which has been a trend going on for a while now, 858 00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:33,039 of increased and ever more pointed racial ethnic identity. And 859 00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:37,360 the ones group in America that so far is still 860 00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:42,719 resisting that are white America, European Americans, and especially Donald 861 00:58:42,719 --> 00:58:45,719 Trump supporters, and Donald Trump himself he sort of thinks 862 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:47,920 he can sort of take that all for granted, and 863 00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,000 that's not true. It can't be taken for granted, and 864 00:58:51,039 --> 00:58:54,639 that will become even more obvious, I think as the 865 00:58:55,679 --> 00:59:00,639 Donald Trump administration comes along, and even more after Donald 866 00:59:00,679 --> 00:59:03,159 Trump's out of the White House. 867 00:59:04,599 --> 00:59:07,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I can't make excuses for somebody who doesn't, 868 00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:11,119 you know, isn't racially aware, but I mean he's an 869 00:59:11,159 --> 00:59:14,760 almost eighty year old man in the United States. I mean, 870 00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:19,039 that's just what they've been taught. It's just the color blindness. 871 00:59:19,079 --> 00:59:22,920 It is, you know, the Civil rights the champion the 872 00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:28,199 Civil Rights Act, like it was yeah, like it was 873 00:59:28,239 --> 00:59:30,760 as great a victory as World War Two. I mean, 874 00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:36,320 I have trouble. I wish there were you know, people 875 00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:42,440 in power or seeking power who had that understood that, 876 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,000 but I mean it's just not in the cards now, 877 00:59:45,039 --> 00:59:46,679 and it's one of the you know, it's just I 878 00:59:47,119 --> 00:59:51,840 can't yell at leaders, even ones that I like, for 879 00:59:52,119 --> 00:59:56,159 not not saying that, especially if they don't if that's 880 00:59:56,199 --> 00:59:59,760 not something that they believe. You know, it's just it's 881 00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:02,239 so in grain. There's so much that needs to be 882 01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:06,239 unlearned that has been put into us in the last 883 01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:11,719 hundred years that yeah, it's going it's it's either going 884 01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,239 to all fall apart or people are going to start 885 01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:16,480 waking up. And I think I just think it's going 886 01:00:16,519 --> 01:00:21,519 to fracture. And I'm not saying, you know, like secession, 887 01:00:21,639 --> 01:00:24,639 they're gonna be secession movements and we're leaving the United States. 888 01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:26,320 I think it's just going to be the facto. I 889 01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,280 think people are just going to separate, and I think 890 01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,000 white people are going to go live with white people, 891 01:00:32,039 --> 01:00:34,599 and black people are going to flock to black people, 892 01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:39,159 and Spanish are going to do that the same. And 893 01:00:39,239 --> 01:00:41,079 you know, I mean, you're already it's at that's a 894 01:00:41,079 --> 01:00:44,880 hano community in Texas is tight has been tight knit 895 01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:48,519 for you know, a couple of centuries, you know, So yeah, 896 01:00:48,679 --> 01:00:51,079 I mean I just think that's that's where it's coming 897 01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,920 to expect. You know, the people I know who call 898 01:00:54,960 --> 01:01:00,920 themselves like white nationalists, like that's how you can There 899 01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,079 are people who are white, there are people who are nationalists, 900 01:01:03,119 --> 01:01:05,360 and then there are people who call themselves white nationalists. 901 01:01:05,599 --> 01:01:09,000 And when I listen to people who call themselves a 902 01:01:09,039 --> 01:01:12,000 white nationalists the way I listen to libertarians who are 903 01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,159 talking about how, you know, everything would just be great 904 01:01:14,239 --> 01:01:17,039 because the government is the government is the cause of 905 01:01:17,119 --> 01:01:18,800 all our evils, so we have to get rid of 906 01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,440 the government. And they're talking about you know, it's like, well, 907 01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,840 we're not unless we have a white ethno state. Well 908 01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:25,639 you can have a white ethno state, You're just not. 909 01:01:26,239 --> 01:01:28,599 It's not going to happen on a mass scale. You're 910 01:01:28,599 --> 01:01:30,519 going to have to do it. It's going to have 911 01:01:30,559 --> 01:01:33,400 to be at scale, and that scale is going to 912 01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:36,039 be small. And you know, if you go and do it, 913 01:01:36,199 --> 01:01:40,119 don't announce it, don't tell people. Don't you know, don't 914 01:01:40,159 --> 01:01:42,480 be like, we're all going to move over here because 915 01:01:42,519 --> 01:01:44,480 we're all white, we all have as and I have 916 01:01:44,519 --> 01:01:46,920 no problem with that. I want I want to see that. 917 01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:50,559 Just shut up about it. You don't you know, we 918 01:01:50,599 --> 01:01:52,800 don't live in a we don't live in a society, 919 01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,159 we don't live in a in a spirit of the 920 01:01:55,199 --> 01:01:59,159 spirit of this age, isn't that. Just go do it, 921 01:01:59,159 --> 01:02:02,679 it will be it's changing. You're going to have to 922 01:02:02,679 --> 01:02:05,119 build it on your you have to build what comes 923 01:02:05,199 --> 01:02:09,239 next now because if everything does fall apart and you're 924 01:02:09,239 --> 01:02:11,599 not ready, you're going to be in pain. You're going 925 01:02:11,639 --> 01:02:13,760 to be hurting, Your people are going to be hurting. 926 01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,639 So you need to organize now. If you do think 927 01:02:16,639 --> 01:02:18,119 everything's going to fall apart. 928 01:02:19,199 --> 01:02:23,880 Speaker 2: Right, we're not in disagreement. These things happen organically. They 929 01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:28,400 don't happen because somebody just wishes it to happen. I 930 01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:32,159 think a comparison could be made to the mentality the 931 01:02:32,159 --> 01:02:35,960 outlook of Americans or the people who lived in the 932 01:02:36,079 --> 01:02:41,280 Thirteen Colonies. In seventeen seventy five seventeen seventy six, when 933 01:02:42,599 --> 01:02:50,559 opposition to taxation by Britain took political form and delegates 934 01:02:50,559 --> 01:02:53,880 from the Thirteen Colonies met for the so called Continental Congress, 935 01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:59,239 the identity and the outlook of those people was still 936 01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:03,159 that they were British subjects. They respected the King of England, 937 01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:08,920 and they petitioned though to get what they regarded as 938 01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:13,920 their rights within the British Empire. And it wasn't until 939 01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:22,440 people fighting started, blood was shed that a big change 940 01:03:22,519 --> 01:03:27,719 took place in mentality, in outlook, in identity. The big 941 01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:34,559 change was changing the view that the white Americans of 942 01:03:34,599 --> 01:03:38,360 the Thirteen Colonies were British subjects and British and loyal 943 01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,320 to the King of England, to the identity that they're not. 944 01:03:41,599 --> 01:03:45,519 They are Americans. There are separate people. And that took 945 01:03:45,599 --> 01:03:48,400 place very quickly, over a very short period of time. 946 01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:52,360 It was exacerbated, it was propelled a lot by this 947 01:03:52,599 --> 01:03:58,639 pamphlet by Thomas Paine, Common Sense, in which he said, basically, no, 948 01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:02,800 we're a separate people. And that's I think that kind 949 01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:07,320 of change is absolutely necessary and I think it will 950 01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:12,440 happen on a slower, faster basis when white Americans realize 951 01:04:12,599 --> 01:04:18,519 that the important thing is not that this thing called 952 01:04:18,559 --> 01:04:22,400 the United States of America is great or stays in place, 953 01:04:23,039 --> 01:04:26,440 but what who we are? The identity? Who's the we? 954 01:04:27,159 --> 01:04:29,559 And to me, the great question of our time and 955 01:04:29,599 --> 01:04:36,039 a great question for every great transitional period in human history, 956 01:04:36,159 --> 01:04:38,519 is who's the we that we're talking about? 957 01:04:38,719 --> 01:04:39,360 Speaker 1: Who are we? 958 01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:45,000 Speaker 2: And for most mega Americans and so forth, the we 959 01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:49,519 is we're all Americans and the other non and white 960 01:04:49,559 --> 01:04:52,679 Americans to sort of be like we are, that's not 961 01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:56,320 going to happen. It isn't happening. But at this point, 962 01:04:56,360 --> 01:05:01,719 white Americans still delude themselves and the thinking, well, if 963 01:05:01,719 --> 01:05:03,880 we just have the right attitude, if we just can 964 01:05:05,079 --> 01:05:09,880 why can't we all just go along, then it'll all 965 01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:13,760 sort of work out. And one expression of that is 966 01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:22,480 that Republicans and MAGA Republicans insist that the Democrats are 967 01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:24,920 the party that really is bad because they talk about 968 01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:29,239 race all the time. Mega people, we trump people. We 969 01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:33,039 just want to be individuals. Well, no society is a 970 01:05:33,079 --> 01:05:36,519 healthy society is a society just of individuals. They have 971 01:05:36,599 --> 01:05:41,280 to have more to hold them together than just individuals. 972 01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:46,679 Human beings are social beings, and social beings, as social beings, 973 01:05:47,199 --> 01:05:50,639 we prefer to live and we should live in societies 974 01:05:50,679 --> 01:05:54,800 of people like ourselves, and societies in which our leaders 975 01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:59,320 are like ourselves and represent our interests. That's the normal 976 01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:02,480 way that human beings have lived do live in a 977 01:06:02,519 --> 01:06:06,440 healthy society. Americans are still very confused about that. And 978 01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:11,559 the great challenge I think for the years ahead is too, 979 01:06:12,559 --> 01:06:17,079 is the breaking down of delusional ideas about who we 980 01:06:17,119 --> 01:06:19,800 are and what America is and what it should be. 981 01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:27,920 And and that's that's going to be an even more telling, pointed, 982 01:06:28,039 --> 01:06:33,000 acute question in the months and certainly in the years ahead. 983 01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,000 Speaker 1: Oh, I agree with you one hundred percent. Everything you 984 01:06:36,079 --> 01:06:40,199 said there is absolutely perfect. And yeah, that's that's some 985 01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:44,119 work to do there. And you know, we need leadership too, 986 01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,440 many people who are willing to take leadership roles, and 987 01:06:48,199 --> 01:06:51,840 because he is always a leader at the at the 988 01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:53,800 head of this and I think we see a lot 989 01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:58,559 of that. So, yeah, this was great, and I really 990 01:06:58,599 --> 01:07:04,000 appreciate the back and forth. You know, I I love 991 01:07:04,079 --> 01:07:07,360 to most of the time when I do shows, I'm 992 01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:10,880 completely agreeing with everybody and to have a little bit 993 01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:15,000 of back and forth was was wonderful. I really appreciate that, Mark, 994 01:07:15,039 --> 01:07:16,119 thank you. Good. 995 01:07:16,239 --> 01:07:17,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. Likewise great, yeah. 996 01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:17,880 Speaker 1: No. 997 01:07:18,239 --> 01:07:21,199 Speaker 2: It helps us focus our own thinking and our own 998 01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:23,960 our own dialogue. 999 01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:26,519 Speaker 1: Because you and I want the I think you and 1000 01:07:26,559 --> 01:07:29,159 I want the same things. It's just a matter of, 1001 01:07:30,079 --> 01:07:32,079 you know, how do we get there? And that's always 1002 01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:34,400 that's always the argument, isn't it It's how do we 1003 01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:37,719 get there? It's uh? Is it? Is it? Baby step? 1004 01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:40,119 Is it? Baby steps? Is it? Is it? You know? 1005 01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:43,800 All of a sudden, there's this massive change, and I 1006 01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,440 think with technology and the internet is just so much 1007 01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:49,800 easier to find your own people, that things can happen 1008 01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:53,480 a lot quicker than people give. Then people actually believe, 1009 01:07:53,599 --> 01:07:54,639 the people actually think. 1010 01:07:55,840 --> 01:08:00,400 Speaker 2: Well, Peter, I uh like to express the compliment because 1011 01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,480 it's precisely the kind of show that you have and 1012 01:08:03,519 --> 01:08:06,320 the work that you and many others are doing that 1013 01:08:06,559 --> 01:08:10,400 is speeding that process along, and it's a necessary part 1014 01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:14,320 of all of that. And I'm very encouraged by the 1015 01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:18,560 coming to age of younger people who get it all, 1016 01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,560 who understand that, who see all of that in a 1017 01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,960 way far more clearly than I did. When I was 1018 01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:30,600 that age. But that's developing and it's not something artificial. 1019 01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,680 It's based on a recognition of a reality that more 1020 01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:37,920 and more people see. But I think you're doing a 1021 01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:43,239 great job in contributing to that organic process. 1022 01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:45,359 Speaker 1: Well, what I do want to say is, you know, 1023 01:08:45,399 --> 01:08:49,920 we can disagree on you know, when I disagree with you, 1024 01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:54,000 I take into consideration You've been doing this for a 1025 01:08:54,159 --> 01:08:58,680 long long time and it's guys like you that pave 1026 01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,800 the way for or what we're you know, what we're 1027 01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:06,359 experiencing now, the kind of especially the kind of organic 1028 01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:10,359 movements that are happening in real life. And thank you, 1029 01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:14,800 and just please promote, promote what you want to promote, 1030 01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:16,359 and we'll end the recording. 1031 01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:20,199 Speaker 2: Okay, thank you very much. Well, I do encourage people 1032 01:09:20,199 --> 01:09:22,960 who are listening to check out our website i hr 1033 01:09:23,039 --> 01:09:26,800 dot org Institute for Historical Review, and you'll find a 1034 01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:30,279 lot more on these and other related subjects. 1035 01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:35,000 Speaker 1: Thank you, Mark, I appreciate it. I always enjoyed talking 1036 01:09:35,039 --> 01:09:35,720 to you. Thank you. 1037 01:09:36,600 --> 01:10:14,600 Speaker 2: Likewise, Okay, bye bye,