WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:03.759 We've told stories about people who vanish deep in the wilderness, 2 00:00:03.839 --> 00:00:05.960 off trail and miles from anywhere. 3 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:07.599 This isn't one of those stories. 4 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.080 This is a teenager who went for a jog along 5 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:14.759 a road, headed to a busy, all inclusive vacation spot 6 00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:19.600 and simply never returned. I'm Danielle, I'm Megan, and this 7 00:00:19.719 --> 00:00:35.240 is off the trails. So before you get into what 8 00:00:35.799 --> 00:00:37.799 sounds like it's going to be a very sad story 9 00:00:39.320 --> 00:00:46.280 I have, I'm so excited because while it was unintentional, 10 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:48.600 the outcome was actually. 11 00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:50.759 A good one for me. 12 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:55.240 So if you are familiar with Florida weather, and especially 13 00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:58.960 summertime Florida weather, you would know that we just get 14 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:03.759 these insane and afternoon thunderstorms right around the same time. 15 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:07.319 I mean they the sky turns black, lightning and thunder 16 00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:11.280 all around you, and it happens very quickly and then 17 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:14.519 they end just as quickly. And you would think I 18 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:16.239 would know this by now, right, like I should be 19 00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:18.079 used to this. I should just build this into my 20 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:23.239 day right as one does. Well, I'm still getting off 21 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:26.319 work around four o'clock and taking Luna for our walk 22 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:30.799 on one of the trails in town, and I definitely 23 00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:37.599 did not plan well on what's today Wednesday? So yes, yeah, Monday. 24 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:41.000 So Monday we went on this one trail and unfortunately 25 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:43.200 this one was an out and back trail. So it's 26 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:50.040 about one and one point one point six miles. 27 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:53.439 Okay, so like perfect, perfect for like after work, before dinner, 28 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:55.359 like nice afternoon walk. 29 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:58.879 And it's nice because it's paved, there's a little ups 30 00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:01.959 and downs in it. There's some tree coverage, which is 31 00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:04.599 nice so that you're not just like standing in the 32 00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:07.120 sun the whole time or walking in the sun. Well 33 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:09.599 on our way, like as we were at like the 34 00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:13.840 furthest point out, this sky just turns absolutely black, and 35 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:17.680 I'm like, oh shit. And then I've got my mom 36 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:21.360 texting me. She's like, I don't love where you are. 37 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:26.919 And then summer my friend she's like, dude, you better 38 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:27.400 get home. 39 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:29.919 But I'll go to everyone. 40 00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:33.159 With our locations, right We've talked about location sharing, and 41 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:34.360 so I was looking at Luna. 42 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:36.639 I'm my girl, I'm really sorry. We got a hustle 43 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:37.120 right now. 44 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:40.479 And because the lightning was like at that point kind 45 00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:45.879 of over us, and lightning is terrifying. So for the 46 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:52.280 first time since February, I was finally witched to refresh 47 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:55.159 everyone's memories when I got my surgery and I used 48 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:57.919 to run every day and I have not run since 49 00:02:58.039 --> 00:03:01.879 before my surgery in February. Well, your girl ran, and 50 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:06.599 she ran hard on Monday, because there is no motivation 51 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:07.599 to get back. 52 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:11.960 Into running, like trying to outrun a storm. Yep, and 53 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:13.719 did you did you make it back to your car? 54 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:17.800 My goodness, just in time? Like it was. 55 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:20.560 It was a little too dicey on, but we did 56 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:24.000 make it back just in time. And my mom was 57 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:26.319 definitely tracking me because she's like, oh, good you're home, 58 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:31.800 you know, because I I'd be panicing if I knew 59 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:36.120 someone was somewhere in some very concerning weather. But yeah, so, 60 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:40.439 uh my foot was a little sore after, but that's 61 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:42.479 to be expected, to be expected. 62 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:43.560 But I'm like, wait a second. 63 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:47.319 Was that the universe's way of letting me know that, like, hey, girl, 64 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:49.520 you can slowly start running again if you want. Maybe 65 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:52.439 don't do it under such like concerning circumstances. 66 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:56.960 You don't need to add mental stress to your physical exertion. 67 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:02.199 But maybe just you know, on a nice sunny afternoon exactly. 68 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:06.039 So I'm pretty stoked about that. Sorry for the not 69 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:10.159 so short story. But when you mentioned jogging, I was like, ooh. 70 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:13.000 I was like, that's been such a positive for my week. 71 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:15.639 Because when you have a hobby that. 72 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:16.879 You can't do. 73 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:20.360 And then you're not sure when you're going to be 74 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:23.600 able to enjoy it again, it's very disheartening. And so 75 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:26.279 when I was able to, when I realized, I was like, wait, 76 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:27.519 my foot is not killing me. 77 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:30.040 I'm actually able to properly run on it. 78 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:32.439 Sometimes it's hard to know when you've had even a 79 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:35.879 minor injury or a muscle pull. It's hard to know 80 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:39.040 sometimes when it's going to be okay to get back 81 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:44.279 into just regular routine and physical activity. You have that 82 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:47.879 apprehension you're like, oh, if I do whatever this. 83 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:51.040 Is, am I going to be in terrible pain. 84 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:54.079 So I think a lot of times people like especially 85 00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:56.959 once like people are done physical therapy, you're very tentative 86 00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:00.600 about doing everything. So this was like, I don't have 87 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:03.000 a choice to be tentative and think about it. 88 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:03.800 I just gotta do it. 89 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:06.759 Yeah, I've been scared that I'm going to reinjur it, 90 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:10.160 that I'm going to tear or rupture the tendon or 91 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:14.240 just hurt myself and because it's still you know, I 92 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:20.439 still limp around sometimes because it's super tight. But yeah, 93 00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:21.759 so I was like, oh my gosh, I think I'm 94 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:23.600 going to like slowly start trying to run again. 95 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:26.800 Not overdo it, of course, but yay, yay. 96 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:31.079 Everyone's like, shut up, get to the story. 97 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:36.959 Sorry, all right, I don't think of anything else. They're like, 98 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:38.720 dear god, you do not have anything else. 99 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:42.399 Adrian will have an episode out for you guys later 100 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:47.000 this week. And we had our meetup last week, which 101 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:50.199 was really fun. I think we decided our next meetup 102 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:54.959 is going to be Nashville Park Trivia, right, Yeah. 103 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:58.720 Are the thrift store find of that that board game 104 00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:01.560 or that that I found of National Park Trivia. So 105 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:04.839 we're gonna do that and it's gonna. 106 00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:05.639 Be so much fun. Yeah. 107 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:07.759 So we'll have to do that in August. Get that 108 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:11.120 on the get it on the calendar. Oh my god, yeah, 109 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:12.199 it's this next month. 110 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:15.519 Holy moly. She'd have seen Megan's face. 111 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:17.519 I could tell she was looking at a calendar and 112 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:19.920 it was just like the shock of it. 113 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:26.519 Yeah, yeah, definitely. I'm like, that's we are in seven. 114 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:31.399 That is eight, correct, That's how it works all right, 115 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:37.279 So jel Jell, that's not a name. Uh, Joe Keller, 116 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:39.399 I was trying to like make a combo name. I 117 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:44.879 guess was eighteen and from Cleveland, Tennessee. On July twenty 118 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:49.279 third of twenty fifteen, he and two of his longtime 119 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:53.279 friends were on a road trip and on this particular day, 120 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:58.720 they had just arrived at Rainbow Trout Ranch outside of Antonito, 121 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:03.000 which is in Conejos County, Colorado. I believe that this 122 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:06.360 was part of their return trip home. I think they 123 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:09.279 had gone to California and then we're now working their 124 00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:13.959 way back. Conejos County is situated in south central Colorado 125 00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:17.399 along the New Mexico border. It's one of the least 126 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:21.199 densely populated counties in the state, so it's pretty quiet. 127 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:25.920 The Rio Grande National Forest covers about one point eight 128 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:30.639 million acres, and this county does fall within much of that, 129 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:35.439 and much of that forest is high elevation. I think 130 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:40.519 we have been to this forest before. Possibly, possibly, It's 131 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:44.000 so hard to remember. I'm sure I've said this before, 132 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:47.680 but one of my biggest paranoia things when doing these 133 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:50.959 episodes is even though I check to make sure we 134 00:07:51.079 --> 00:07:55.279 haven't covered whatever particular person or situation. I'm still afraid that, 135 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:57.800 even though I looked for it in the drive and 136 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:00.800 in our catalog, that somehow I'm and I'm just going 137 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:02.439 to cover something we've already done. 138 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:04.920 Yep, what's the name of the forest again? 139 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:09.959 The Rio Grande Forest sound familiar, So whether we've been 140 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:16.439 there or not, we're here now. So the Rainbow Trout 141 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:20.720 Ranch is a popular working guest ranch, and she's like 142 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:22.360 tough trade into the forest here. 143 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:25.319 And this place has all kinds of activities. Of course, 144 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:26.480 they went to their website. 145 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:31.800 They do horseback riding, fly fishing, all kinds of cool activities. 146 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:35.720 They've got activities for kids, specifically, teens specifically, obviously adults. 147 00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:38.799 It's all inclusive. It's an all inclusive ranch. 148 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:42.080 And every person on their website was wearing a cowboy 149 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:46.080 hat or cowboy boots. Most of them were doing both, 150 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:50.279 so a very classic dude ranch experience. 151 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:52.159 I love that. That's a dream. 152 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:55.679 Joe's aunt and uncle actually worked and lived on the ranch, 153 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:59.960 so this is partly why the friends made it here. 154 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.200 And the twenty fourth was Joe's birthday, so it was 155 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:05.600 kind of a multi purpose visit. It was just another 156 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:08.799 stop on their road trip. They're also visiting Joe's family, 157 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:10.159 going to celebrate his birthday. 158 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:11.399 Joe was pretty athletic. 159 00:09:11.639 --> 00:09:15.399 He was a swim coach and an avid runner, so 160 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:19.200 it was no surprise when later in that day he 161 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:20.039 planned to head. 162 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:20.600 Out for a run. 163 00:09:21.279 --> 00:09:24.840 Around four point thirty, he and his friend Colin set 164 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:27.720 out for a run. The friends ran at different paces. 165 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:32.080 Colin was a faster runner, so about after a quarter 166 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:36.000 of a mile they did split up, with Colin running ahead. 167 00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:40.720 Sources varied about this running route, which is always annoying, 168 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:45.399 you know, some routes said or some sources sorry said 169 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:51.480 that they took different roads, but based on the map 170 00:09:51.559 --> 00:09:53.159 of the area, there aren't. 171 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:53.879 Any other roads. 172 00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:58.559 So I think Colin ran ahead and Joe just kept 173 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:02.919 at his own pace, is what from all the information 174 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:05.840 I've gathered, which makes sense. So they were going to 175 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:09.720 run this route no more than four miles on about 176 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:11.639 an hour and meet back. 177 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:15.279 Up at the ranch. It was not unusual for them 178 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:15.960 to split up. 179 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:19.120 They each wanted to enjoy running at their own pace, 180 00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:23.200 and they were both avid runners, so typically they did 181 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:27.159 run alone. So it wasn't strange by any means that 182 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:30.320 they would not run together, Like if you and I 183 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:33.559 went running together, I would be in the parking lot 184 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:38.080 within three minutes, you know, hyperventilating, and you could keep going. 185 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:41.200 So we would not be running together. We would not 186 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:43.720 be ideal running partners. 187 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:45.679 Correct, And you know what, not all friends are, So 188 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:46.679 that's okay. 189 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:49.480 There are plenty of things. If we did, you would 190 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:51.559 be doing laps around me, and I'd be like, I 191 00:10:51.559 --> 00:10:55.200 don't know. Like we could be like gardening, and you'd 192 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:58.080 have a garden setup and I'd be like, what is soil? 193 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:01.080 I do have a sweet guard in pace. You're right, 194 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:01.799 so you do. 195 00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:05.519 And I love a garden and I've done light work 196 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:08.480 of it. But I you know, i'd be no match 197 00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:12.279 for you. But is that the right? Is that the 198 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:13.919 or would you be no match for me? I don't 199 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:16.440 know what which one who has the disadvantage? 200 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:18.120 That's me? Whichever one? I mean? 201 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.679 I guess it works either way though, because if you're 202 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:22.000 not paired, you're not paired. 203 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:23.080 One of those has. 204 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:27.279 A disadvantage, uh indication, yes, And I don't know which one, 205 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:30.639 so right, anybody, if anybody knows the proper terminology, let 206 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:35.000 us know. So Colin finished his run and made his 207 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:39.440 way back to the ranch. He wasn't really expecting Joe 208 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:43.399 to be back, but he and the third friend, Christian, 209 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:47.360 figured he wasn't too far behind. And this is the 210 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:52.639 piece that made me question the running route, because, like 211 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:56.440 I said, some sources said that it was out and back, 212 00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:02.080 and if that's the case, I wandered why Colin didn't 213 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:05.960 find it strange or it wasn't noted that he saw 214 00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:08.600 Joe on his way back. So that's when I started looking, 215 00:12:08.840 --> 00:12:12.080 like specifically looking at the running route, and there were 216 00:12:12.279 --> 00:12:14.919 sources that said different things. It would make sense if 217 00:12:14.919 --> 00:12:19.639 there was a different route to take, but based on. 218 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:21.399 The maps, there's not other roads. 219 00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:24.679 There's one road in and out. It's a forest service road. 220 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:28.000 It's not like they were in a neighborhood. So that's 221 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:31.919 the only piece of this that I kind of had 222 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:35.600 questions on and wasn't able to get clarification for myself 223 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:36.159 or you guys. 224 00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:39.559 So sorry, that's so strange, because, like you said, if 225 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:41.600 it's just one road and it's out and back. 226 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:46.120 Right, he would have passed him on its way right back. 227 00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:49.840 But regardless, they plan to have dinner after the run, 228 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:53.919 so the friends were certainly aware of the time passing. 229 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:57.759 As they waited for Joe to return after two hours, 230 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:02.600 they knew he wasn't just being slow. Something obviously must 231 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:07.480 be wrong. They'd known Joe since they were all in kindergarten, 232 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:11.360 so lifelong friends at this point, so they knew him 233 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:14.480 well enough that they didn't think he would have gone 234 00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:19.080 off to do something else without first heading back and 235 00:13:19.519 --> 00:13:22.120 letting them know. Joe didn't take his phone with him, 236 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:26.440 which I can definitely see not wanting to take it 237 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:29.600 if you're running, because it's a pain to put that 238 00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:31.840 in your pocket or have like one of those armstraps 239 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:34.080 or whatever. And if you're if you're not a person 240 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:38.000 that has to have music and you want to just run, 241 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:42.039 I can totally see wanting to leave it at home. 242 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:46.200 One thousand percent. Especially guys they're running. 243 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:49.879 Shorts are typically like your you're kind your gym shorts, right, 244 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:52.679 and so when they have stuff in their pockets, like 245 00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:55.559 the up and down of the running motion, it's just 246 00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:58.919 like pulling down that momentum, and like a heavy phone 247 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:02.600 is annoying when it's doing that, so right, unless you 248 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:05.799 ye can secure it to where it's not really impacting 249 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:10.240 your run rhythm, then it's way easier to just leave it. 250 00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:15.000 Yeah, and even on Monday, my brother and I took 251 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:17.960 all of the kids to the lake and I was 252 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:21.159 wearing what I think are technically running shorts. They will 253 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:23.360 never be run in, but I did wear them to 254 00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:25.519 the lake, but didn't. 255 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:26.440 Have side pockets that had. 256 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:29.320 A TENA tiny little back pocket with a little zipper 257 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:32.039 for a key, A key or chapstick are the only 258 00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:34.879 things that would fit. And of course all day I 259 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:36.919 kept trying to put things in my pockets because I 260 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:39.720 always wear things with pockets. 261 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:40.759 Those very stressful. 262 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:44.720 It's almost like athletic apparel designers are like, you are 263 00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:47.759 not carrying anything because we're not giving you pockets. 264 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:52.879 My favorite shorts and pants that I have are essentially 265 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:56.840 leggings or bike shorts that have the pockets on both sides. 266 00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:01.679 Those just are so convenient. Yeah, I got out of 267 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:04.200 the pockets. Yeah, always need pockets. 268 00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:07.080 So since we have confirmed he did not have a 269 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:10.440 phone on him, the only option was for the friends 270 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:14.799 to just head out and look for him. Unfortunately, they 271 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:19.320 were unable to find him, so a call to authorities 272 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:23.960 was made. I don't know exactly what time or when 273 00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:29.759 someone actually made it out to the scene, But compared 274 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:33.879 to other searches we've covered, this search wasn't described as 275 00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:41.519 kicking off very intensely or moving with much urgency. You know, 276 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:46.960 I think the last couple searches we've covered were pretty significant, 277 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:51.480 and all of the source material indicated that authorities showed 278 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:53.720 up and things got kicked off pretty quickly. 279 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:57.080 It doesn't sound like that was the case in this situation. 280 00:15:57.279 --> 00:15:58.039 A guests who had. 281 00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:03.039 Been staying at the and later said that she fancy 282 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.519 search efforts really get underway until sometime after lunch on 283 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:10.559 that first day. They went running about four thirty the 284 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:13.840 day before, after lunchtime. We're looking at twenty hours already, 285 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.919 and this guest said that she only saw a small 286 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:22.840 number of people out searching, which I think initially that 287 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:25.879 usually makes sense because the majority of missing people are 288 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:31.080 found within a couple hours, So I think it makes 289 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:34.080 sense a few people go out see what they can find. 290 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:38.159 I think in the majority of situations this person is. 291 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:41.559 Found, they don't need to bring more people. But this woman. 292 00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:45.480 Noted the low number of people who were out searching, 293 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:48.159 And I think the most disappointing part of this woman's 294 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:53.320 account is she recalled a local officer kind of brushing 295 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:58.039 off her concern, telling this guest basically to the effects, 296 00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:00.200 something to the effect of like, don't worry about it. 297 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:04.720 He's young, he's strong, or we'll find him. Which, yes, 298 00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:10.720 he was probably peak health. But if you've had an injury, 299 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:12.839 it doesn't matter how. 300 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:14.079 Physically fit you are. 301 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:17.359 If you've had a serious injury, you could have great 302 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:19.759 muscle tone, but if you've ripped your muscle, you know 303 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:23.160 you're as in bad a situation as somebody who sits 304 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:25.200 on the couch all day and has torn a muscle. 305 00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:28.839 Yeah, Or if he gets turned around just because he's 306 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:32.680 in peak physical shape, if you're lost, you're lost, right. 307 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:38.279 I do understand the expectation that he was gonna make 308 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:40.720 it through the night probably okay. It's a reasonable expectation 309 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:44.240 for somebody of his age and fitness level and for 310 00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:46.960 the weather, that at least through the night he was 311 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:51.119 probably gonna be okay, depending on what type of injury 312 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:53.440 he could have sustained. You know, obviously there's so many 313 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:58.759 unknowns in these cases, and what happened is obviously the 314 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:03.400 biggest one. Joe's father, Neil Keller, arrived in Colorado the 315 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:08.119 next day and his frustration echoed what that guest had 316 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:14.359 said as well, just knowing how important those first early 317 00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:17.279 hours of a search are, in the first couple of 318 00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:23.880 days are Neil didn't feel that the Sheriff's department was 319 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:26.960 throwing everything they had into this search. I think there's 320 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:30.440 probably a fine balance between sending out a small number 321 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:35.799 of resources to start and hoping that however many people 322 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:37.799 that's enough that person's gonna beound in a couple hours, 323 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:42.759 and then knowing when you need to ramp up because 324 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:49.160 the first twenty four forty eight hours are are critical. Yeah, 325 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:51.440 I'm glad that I'm not the one that has to 326 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:56.440 make any of these decisions, because these can be life 327 00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:02.400 and death situations and it's never a straight forward situation, 328 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:05.440 I'm sure, and they have to consider so many factors 329 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:06.079 as well. 330 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:10.160 They have to consider their resources and when other people 331 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:13.519 might look at it like why aren't you sending more people? 332 00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:15.759 But they only have so many people they can send. 333 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:19.119 But they're still the face of that decision, so a 334 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:21.039 lot of criticism will fall on them. 335 00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:27.279 Right and for any family in this kind of situation, obviously, 336 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.640 emotions are going to be running extremely high, and I 337 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:37.039 think no matter how appropriate the response is. I think 338 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:41.599 it's easy to be overly critical of search operations because 339 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:45.039 when it's your loved one, there's never going to be 340 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:48.880 enough searchers and no one is moving fast enough. 341 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:51.039 I'm sure, definitely, it's just. 342 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:54.119 One of the situations where you can't help but be 343 00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:56.519 overly critical and. 344 00:19:57.960 --> 00:19:59.599 Viewing people as not doing enough. 345 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:04.440 I agree, And to your point about resources, this was 346 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:09.240 a small department with very limited resources, and well that 347 00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:14.880 definitely shouldn't impact any sense of urgency felt by this department. 348 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:18.799 It certainly limits a number of people and what kind 349 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:21.400 of tools they had access to. A lot of times 350 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:24.720 we hear dogs being brought in right away. We have 351 00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:30.480 helicopters and flear equipment coming in and ATVs and all 352 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:35.000 kinds of stuff being brought in planes. Not every location 353 00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:41.200 has access to these things, yeah, or quickly, So a 354 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:44.680 go funding page was set up quickly and raise more 355 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:48.240 than sixteen thousand dollars in donations, which was enough for 356 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:53.119 the family to pay for a private helicopter charter that 357 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:58.119 was equipped with infrared heat sensing technology. So at some 358 00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:00.000 point the family was able to get that brought out 359 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.279 out and they did do several flyovers. 360 00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:04.799 The Forest Road area. 361 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:07.960 Search dogs didn't arrive until Saturday, so by that point 362 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:13.359 several days had already passed, and kind of unsurprisingly, the 363 00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:16.680 dogs weren't able to pick up a cent at that point. Meanwhile, 364 00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:22.200 while these preliminary searches are getting underway, investigators were working 365 00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:26.240 to obviously interview the friends and guests and things of 366 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:31.799 that nature, kind of doing the more investigative investigation part 367 00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:36.480 of the search. They were able to clear both the friends. 368 00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:41.920 Both Christian and Colin volunteered to take polygraphs and they 369 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:46.880 both passed cleanly. So in addition to authorities looking through 370 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:51.119 their texts and voicemails, there were no red flags anything 371 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:54.319 to suggest that there's any animosity or anything going on 372 00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:58.880 between the friend group or there's nothing indicating that after 373 00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:03.400 Joe's disappearance, any like weird activity or exchanges. So everything 374 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:06.839 seemed very normal and they were able to clear the friends. 375 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:09.079 I think it's good that you clear these people up 376 00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:13.759 off your list, but I'm sure it always feels horrible 377 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:15.960 when you know that you didn't have anything to do 378 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:20.359 with this missing person and you just want to probably 379 00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:23.880 yourself be looking for them and having authorities look for them, 380 00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:27.680 but it's something that they have to cross off the list. 381 00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:35.000 So again, Neil was pretty critical of the search operations, 382 00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:38.640 and he went on record more than once obviously frustrated, 383 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:43.200 saying he didn't think that Colorado authorities were taking this 384 00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:46.160 as seriously as they should have been. So the family 385 00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:49.960 was really starting to push to have Colorado bring in 386 00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:54.400 outside help. They had already paid for a helicopter, but 387 00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:58.079 they felt like they needed more. On August fourth, the 388 00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:03.599 sheriff officially suspended the search. At that point, Bradley County, Tennessee, 389 00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:09.279 where the family was from, that department offered to send 390 00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:13.559 their own investigators out at their own expense, and the 391 00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:20.680 initial answer from Colorado was now what Yeah. So the 392 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:23.279 family was also had been pushing like to bring in 393 00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:29.759 the FBI bring in Well, there's like a a process 394 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:34.480 for getting additional resources, and I think in this situation, 395 00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:38.079 the sheriff would have needed to request from the I 396 00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:43.240 don't know if they're the Colorado your Bureau of Investigation 397 00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:45.880 or if they're state police, like what they're you know, 398 00:23:46.279 --> 00:23:48.599 terminology is, but I bet they wear a cool hat. 399 00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:52.079 I don't know what makes you say that, Well, because. 400 00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:54.960 State police wear cool hats, So I don't think it 401 00:23:55.200 --> 00:24:01.279