Speaker 1: Seventh birthday period of Martin Luther King Junior, and we
Speaker 1: are discussing today and through this period, certainly through the
Speaker 1: holiday recognized by the federal government on Monday, the life,
Speaker 1: the mission, the ministry of Martin Luther King Junior and
Speaker 1: what its impact has and what does it say about
Speaker 1: our time. We began our conversation at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the week with none other than Terry Horde Owens. We
Speaker 1: touched upon some of these issues on Tenacious Tuesdays with
Speaker 1: Barbara Arnwine and Liz King. Revent tard Urie joined us
Speaker 1: along with a Tiba in conversation yesterday, on Wealthy Wednesdays
Speaker 1: and on thought Provoking Thursdays. P L Da Silva as
Speaker 1: well as his very special guest, along with Johnny Mack,
Speaker 1: explored the global implications of what thirty nine year old
Speaker 1: Martin Luther King Junior, at the hour of his assassination
Speaker 1: thirty nine years old, had to share with the world.
Speaker 1: In this hour, we're going to take a hard look,
Speaker 1: a deep dive into the Letter from a Birmingham Jail
Speaker 1: because of its historical significance, its implications, some of its origins,
Speaker 1: and why doctor King's thinking was so prolific. I'm particularly
Speaker 1: honored that our very special guest in this hour is
Speaker 1: not none other than John Diggles. John Diggles is a
Speaker 1: healthcare professional, and over the course of our show, I
Speaker 1: will give you more and more about his biography, and
Speaker 1: of course, activist thinker, political commentator, former executive in outdoor
Speaker 1: advertising John Leciotis will also be joining us in this hour.
Speaker 1: Both have been apprized of the subject matter and are
Speaker 1: well aware of the fact that Martin Luther King Junior's
Speaker 1: letter from a Birmingham jail was a turning point in
Speaker 1: Christian theological practice. Gentlemen, welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson
Speaker 1: Junior Show.
Speaker 2: Jesse, it's good to see you.
Speaker 3: Thanks Jesse. Thanks for now.
Speaker 1: This is fat Meet Fridays, So I don't want anyone
Speaker 1: to think for one moment that we don't have an
Speaker 1: additional contributor who is absolutely with us. She is the
Speaker 1: creator of the Jesse Jackson Junior Show, and I'm so
Speaker 1: grateful to call her my very close, dear and best friend.
Speaker 1: The work that she does on this show is extraordinary.
Speaker 1: In fact, there are other radio shows and radio stations
Speaker 1: around the country that watch our show. Very carefully and
Speaker 1: they are following the leadership that Gina Towns has established
Speaker 1: for the Jesse Jackson Junior Show as really a breakthrough
Speaker 1: moment in media communications. So much of what was once
Speaker 1: AM and FM has now moved over to the app.
Speaker 1: That is, we are listened to in London, in Johannesburg,
Speaker 1: South Africa, Frankfurt, Germany and other parts of the world.
Speaker 1: And that's in no small measure because the times are changing,
Speaker 1: so is the technology. More people probably listen to our
Speaker 1: program on the app than they actually do on terrestrial radio.
Speaker 1: It simply wouldn't be possible because I simply gave no
Speaker 1: thought to it without the leadership the thinking of Gina Towns.
Speaker 1: She felt that we needed a platform that was brought
Speaker 1: enough to share ideas across a broad global spectrum. And
Speaker 1: here we are. Gina, welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson
Speaker 1: Junior Show.
Speaker 4: You know what, Jesse, I almost forgot. It was that
Speaker 4: good Friday to have John and John.
Speaker 1: Hey, Gina, let me ask you this question, why the
Speaker 1: letter from a Birmingham jail.
Speaker 4: Well, before I go there, if you don't mind the
Speaker 4: liberty because you said a lot right there, so thank you.
Speaker 4: But we have to give homage and credit to the
Speaker 4: forty year veteran, that is, to have a smiley and
Speaker 4: his tutelage and his mentorship in this venture, especially for me,
Speaker 4: and I will not speak for you, but to allow
Speaker 4: us to grow on this platform and imitate what he
Speaker 4: does as best we can and try to sprout off.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that if I get the Capitol Hill, there
Speaker 1: are no guarantees this is an American election. If I
Speaker 1: get there, it is my intention to take the show
Speaker 1: with us, and I plan to literally usher from Dominique
Speaker 1: di Prima through Tavis's show, through Nie Cordlai Corte. It's
Speaker 1: many of my colleagues to frequent ABLA as a primary
Speaker 1: vehicle by which we share what's taking place in Washington.
Speaker 1: Pring daily that Democrats regain control. But if we don't
Speaker 1: regain control, that is, the resistance movement does not gain
Speaker 1: control of the Congress, certainly Democrats will have a lot
Speaker 1: to say about the future of this nation, given the
Speaker 1: extraordinary times that we find ourselves in. And so this
Speaker 1: show and this platform is a significant part of why
Speaker 1: I wanted to do this in the first place. The
Speaker 1: idea of going to Congress, you know, with a radio show,
Speaker 1: plugging people directly into their members of Congress and senators
Speaker 1: and discussing in real time what the hell is going
Speaker 1: on in this country. I think that matters to this.
Speaker 2: That is Jesse, and you're really good at it. The
Speaker 2: fact that you can bring voices and give a platform
Speaker 2: and have an honest, open discussion with your audience nationally,
Speaker 2: you're really really good at it. We're grateful for you.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Gena.
Speaker 4: So on the Birmingham hand, the letter from Birmingham Jail
Speaker 4: that was John lesiotis when we began to talk about
Speaker 4: Martin Luther King, and that I wanted to continue on
Speaker 4: from yesterday in the celebration. I think there's a lot
Speaker 4: of reflection that we need to do. I think there
Speaker 4: should be a lot of reading going on over the
Speaker 4: weekend of the various materials that are available to us
Speaker 4: to really glean from Martin Luther King's heart and his
Speaker 4: mind for justice. And so John suggested that he wanted
Speaker 4: to look at the letter from Birmingham Jail, and so
Speaker 4: in the next segment, I have a clip for us
Speaker 4: to do a little listening and then we'll do a
Speaker 4: little discussion.
Speaker 1: Knowing that our break is coming up soon, John, I
Speaker 1: want thank you for bringing our attention once again to
Speaker 1: the matters of Birmingham. Looking forward to that discussion when
Speaker 1: we call KBLA Talk fifteen eighty and before we begin
Speaker 1: with Gina's clip in the next segment, I'm going to
Speaker 1: probe mister Lesciotis is thinking why the letter from a
Speaker 1: Birmingham jail? Why did that stand out for him? Then?
Speaker 1: Why should we be reflective upon it now? And what
Speaker 1: are some of its consequences. Gina will then come back
Speaker 1: forward with a clip of doctor King regarding the letter
Speaker 1: from a Birmingham jail, and then we will begin a
Speaker 1: robust conversation. I'm Jesse Jackson, Jr. This is the ninety
Speaker 1: seventh birthday of Martin Luther King Junior, born on January fifth,
Speaker 1: a holiday period celebrated on the third Monday of the
Speaker 1: month of January by the by virtue of Congress and
Speaker 1: the signature of the President of the United States. I'm
Speaker 1: Jesse Jackson, Gi Moore on k Late Talk fifteen eighty.
Speaker 1: When we come forward, Gatown Junior show a regular career
Speaker 1: John Leciotis, Rod, Let's talk about it. Series Political activists, analysts,
Speaker 1: and every second Tuesday of the month guest on the
Speaker 1: Jesse Jackson Junior Show series Let's Talk About It. John
Speaker 1: Leciotis puts real talk in the middle of the floor
Speaker 1: about the ways Republicans view democrats and vice versa, the
Speaker 1: ways democrats view Republicans in a dialogue filled with messaging
Speaker 1: and messenger troops. John Lasiotis, welcome forward to the program.
Speaker 1: I'll give the appropriate introduction of John Diggles in just
Speaker 1: a moment, but why don't we get started, John.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Jesse.
Speaker 1: It's an honor to have you John.
Speaker 3: The letters are a.
Speaker 5: Great interest in me, Jessic because I think they really
Speaker 5: speak to the times what's going on in America right now.
Speaker 5: And what first drew me to the letters is when
Speaker 5: I found out that he wrote those letters to a
Speaker 5: number of white religious leaders in America that we're urging
Speaker 5: King to slow down and to wait for the courts
Speaker 5: to take action.
Speaker 3: And King wrote a rather.
Speaker 5: Lengthy letter explaining that he had been waiting a long
Speaker 5: time and the courts hadn't acted, and more importantly, that
Speaker 5: people have a moral responsibility to break unjust laws, and
Speaker 5: he was tired of waiting for quite frankly, the moderate
Speaker 5: white to step up and to do something. He had
Speaker 5: known that he wasn't going to get the support of
Speaker 5: the right wing in the Kupleux Klan. He knew he
Speaker 5: had the support of the white liberals, but it was
Speaker 5: the white moderate that was really standing in the way
Speaker 5: of progress. And I look at what's happening across America
Speaker 5: right now and I kind of see something similar where
Speaker 5: we've got the moderates that are kind of standing off
Speaker 5: to the side just watching what's going on. Certainly for
Speaker 5: the last election, they stood on the sidelines. You know,
Speaker 5: thirty percent of America at least didn't come out to vote.
Speaker 5: And so it kind of resonates with me the letters
Speaker 5: because it speaks to what's happening today.
Speaker 1: John Diggles is and serves as CEO and founder of
Speaker 1: Ascent Strategy, providing services and digital transformation, corporate storytelling, employer
Speaker 1: brand strategy, marketing of clinical research, and ROI measurement. The
Speaker 1: agency's IP uses proprietary communications algorithms combining online community insights
Speaker 1: with medical professional perspectives, patient observations, and market data to
Speaker 1: promote adoption of telemedicine, remote patient monitoring and healthcare, artificial intelligence,
Speaker 1: among other offerings. John, welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson
Speaker 1: Junior Show.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jesse. It's good to be with you.
Speaker 3: It's good to be with you. For fat Meat Friday.
Speaker 1: This is awesome, Hey, John. An insightful observation by John
Speaker 1: lesiotis about the white moderate John.
Speaker 2: It always stood out to me the letter from Birmingham
Speaker 2: Jail about the clarity that Reverend King had sitting in there,
Speaker 2: and think in that setting, in that setting, he was
Speaker 2: able to put these words for it, and that was
Speaker 2: his thoughts about how he needed to engage the country.
Speaker 2: I think John hit it right on the head. When
Speaker 2: politics becomes so hot and sides dig in, you have
Speaker 2: your far left, far left, far right sides dig in,
Speaker 2: so much of the middle scenes to tune out sometimes,
Speaker 2: and I think that was Reverend Kings is that the
Speaker 2: struggle has to be one you have to help us
Speaker 2: get this. We need your voice, we need your attention
Speaker 2: to this. And I feel that way about a lot
Speaker 2: of things, including healthcare and health inequity. You know, Reverend
Speaker 2: King said something that also changed my life. He said
Speaker 2: that injustice in healthcare is one of the most severe
Speaker 2: forms of inequality. It's why I started this company and
Speaker 2: why we do what we do because the only way
Speaker 2: to bridge to address those inequities is to think differently,
Speaker 2: be involved, and look to new solutions.
Speaker 1: Gina, you're a Princeton Theological Seminary graduate. Congratulations on recently
Speaker 1: receiving your Masters of Arts in Theology.
Speaker 4: Genie.
Speaker 1: About the heavyweights, uh to the show today with a
Speaker 1: very very heavy topic, the letter from a Birmingham jail.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, and I want to go to the clip,
Speaker 4: but I also want to tell our listeners who are
Speaker 4: not able to see us that John and John are
Speaker 4: white and so.
Speaker 1: I love.
Speaker 4: Conversation because conversations we need to be having across the
Speaker 4: aisles at church.
Speaker 2: I thought they were born.
Speaker 1: Across Gina. These are two wild and crazy guys that
Speaker 1: I thought were born black guys. Pour down deep Now.
Speaker 4: I love this because you know, our Monday host in
Speaker 4: the first hour, mister Krim and mister Class always talks
Speaker 4: about the fact that we cannot ignore that there are
Speaker 4: people who are open to all subject matters, and it
Speaker 4: takes all of us, It takes the entire village, the
Speaker 4: people down the street and around the corner to raise
Speaker 4: this child called America. And so with that, Jesse, if
Speaker 4: you're okay, let's go ahead and let's go.
Speaker 1: To the clip.
Speaker 6: Dear fellow clergyman, While confined here in the Birmingham City Jail,
Speaker 6: I came across your recent statement calling my present activities
Speaker 6: unwise and untimely. Seldom do I pause to answer criticism
Speaker 6: of my work and ideas. If I sought to answer
Speaker 6: all the criticisms that cross my desk, my secretaries would
Speaker 6: have little time for anything other than such correspondence in
Speaker 6: the course of the day, and I would have no
Speaker 6: time for constructive work. But since I feel that you
Speaker 6: are men of genuine goodwill and that your criticisms are
Speaker 6: sincerely set forth, I want to try to answer your
Speaker 6: statement in what I hope will be patient and reasonable terms.
Speaker 6: I think I should indicate why I am here in Birmingham,
Speaker 6: since you have been influenced by the view which argues
Speaker 6: against outsiders coming in. I have the honor of serving
Speaker 6: as president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, an organization
Speaker 6: operating in every Southern state with headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia.
Speaker 6: We have some eighty five affiliated organizations across the South,
Speaker 6: and one of them is the Alabama Christian Movement for
Speaker 6: Human Rights. Frequently we share staff, educational and financial resources
Speaker 6: with our affiliates. Several months ago, the affiliates here in
Speaker 6: Birmingham asked us to be on call to engage in
Speaker 6: a nonviolent direct action program if such were deemed necessary.
Speaker 6: We readily consented, and when the hour came, we lived
Speaker 6: up to our promise. So I, along with several members
Speaker 6: of my staff, am here because I was invited here.
Speaker 6: I am here because I have organizational ties here. But
Speaker 6: more basically, I am in Birmingham because injustice is here.
Speaker 6: Just as the prophets of the eighth century BC left
Speaker 6: their villages and carried there thus saith the Lord far
Speaker 6: beyond the boundaries of their hometowns. And just as the
Speaker 6: apostle Paul left his village of Tarsus and carried the
Speaker 6: gospel of Jesus Christ to the far corners of the
Speaker 6: great go Roman world, so am I compelled to carry
Speaker 6: the gospel of freedom beyond my own hometown. Like Paul,
Speaker 6: I must constantly respond to the Macedonian call for aid. Moreover,
Speaker 6: I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states.
Speaker 6: I cannot sit idly by in Atlanta and not be
Speaker 6: concerned about what happens in Birmingham. In justice anywhere is
Speaker 6: a threat to justice everywhere. We are called in an inescapable.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Jesse Jackson Junior show. That was
Speaker 1: Senator Rafael Warnock, Reverend Senator Rafael Warnock, the pastor and
Speaker 1: to a significant degree in terms of the ministry of
Speaker 1: Martin Luther King Junior, the pastor of the Ebenezer Baptist
Speaker 1: Church who happens to serve in the United States Senate
Speaker 1: from Georgia, a church that Martin Luther King Junior was
Speaker 1: pastor of, and so the historical significance of that pastor
Speaker 1: being able to read that speech on the floor of
Speaker 1: the United States Senate is as remarkable as the idea
Speaker 1: of writing the speech in the first place. Gina, I
Speaker 1: want to allow you and opportunity to engage with mister
Speaker 1: Lessiotis and mister Diggles on the target of this speech,
Speaker 1: white evangelical clergymen who are questioning the theological tradition of
Speaker 1: doctor King and the freedom movement.
Speaker 4: Well, thanks, Jesse, I mean it was pretty self explanatory,
Speaker 4: and you're right Reverend Warnock reading that being a member
Speaker 4: of the clergy and the members of the Senate, Reverend
Speaker 4: Doctor cong Senator Raphael Warnock addressing the question in that
Speaker 4: part of the letter where people are questioning him and
Speaker 4: trying to keep us in boxes and keeping civil rights
Speaker 4: and injustice in a certain place, and retaining things that
Speaker 4: quote unquote belong in this political box or this biblical box,
Speaker 4: if you will. In this idea of church and state
Speaker 4: being separate except for our morality and our level of
Speaker 4: justice towards one another. Uh is inextricably tied to.
Speaker 1: The law.
Speaker 4: So when you think about that, and you and you
Speaker 4: hear that, and I know that both of you are
Speaker 4: engaging with conversations on the golf court. Well we're not
Speaker 4: golfing right now, but I know, John, that just comes
Speaker 4: to mind all the time. With John engaging in these
Speaker 4: conversations with your friends who likely don't listen to the
Speaker 4: Jesse Jackson Junior Show, who may not be familiar with
Speaker 4: or any of King's speeches for that matter. You know,
Speaker 4: how do you relate the idea that King was addressing
Speaker 4: in that letter and the responsibility that we have.
Speaker 5: Well that's a tough one because most of the times
Speaker 5: when you bring up you know, because another thing I
Speaker 5: loved about the letters from Birmingham Jails is the quote
Speaker 5: you ended the tape with an injustice anywhere is a
Speaker 5: threat to justice everywhere. I think that's really pertinent now,
Speaker 5: and I bring it up to my friends because a
Speaker 5: couple of them happen to be Jewish to live up
Speaker 5: here in the North Shore, and you know, we talked
Speaker 5: a little bit about what's going on with Gaza, and
Speaker 5: I explained to them that there's some bit of a
Speaker 5: relationship on us turning our blind eye to what's going
Speaker 5: on in Gaza and what's happening in our country, you know,
Speaker 5: because that's an injustice over there, and we should be
Speaker 5: almost as concerned, if not more concerned about it because
Speaker 5: of the genocide there, than we are what's going on
Speaker 5: at home. But yet we kind of detach ourselves from it,
Speaker 5: and we pretend because most of us live in a
Speaker 5: pretty comfortable environment. We're not threatened with job and security necessarily,
Speaker 5: or food and security. Our neighborhoods are relatively safe. So
Speaker 5: in our little world, you know, despite what's going on
Speaker 5: around us, things aren't all that awful. So I think
Speaker 5: a lot of people just getting that comfort zone and
Speaker 5: turn to blind and I of what's going on around him.
Speaker 1: John, But you are you are seminary trained. You you
Speaker 1: understand directly the target audience. Of course John Lecialdas does
Speaker 1: as well. But you understand like John does, the target
Speaker 1: audience to which Doctor King was addressing. Uh. This this
Speaker 1: this profound moral treatise your thoughts.
Speaker 2: John, And that's the that is the power. The first
Speaker 2: time I read the letter, I understood where he was
Speaker 2: coming from. You almost see doctor King. I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: in communications right. You have to write to your audience.
Speaker 2: He's masterful at it. And I think, you know, one
Speaker 2: of my favorite things about the way to celebrate his
Speaker 2: day and this time of year is to take parts,
Speaker 2: quotes and parts of that letter and put him on
Speaker 2: social media to remind you see the power of what
Speaker 2: he wrote and who he was writing to. He knew
Speaker 2: how to get his message across. One of the great
Speaker 2: communicators of our time, of the of the twentieth century.
Speaker 2: He set an example for us how to invite people in.
Speaker 2: And by the way, speaking about how to invite people in,
Speaker 2: you know, all my friends are listening because I texted
Speaker 2: them the whole link to this there listens.
Speaker 4: Well by the way.
Speaker 1: We should all do that. Hey, John, let me can
Speaker 1: I can?
Speaker 2: I can?
Speaker 1: I can I pivot? I know we don't have about
Speaker 1: a minute and thirty seconds before we come forward. But
Speaker 1: given that John Lesiotis was in the advertising business and
Speaker 1: he understands targeting and audience, and given that you're in
Speaker 1: the algorithmic business for healthcare and you understand the significance
Speaker 1: of targeting and audience, doctor King, without all the technology
Speaker 1: that we have today, was deliberately targeting an audience. Do
Speaker 1: you know anybody under age forty today who's targeting the
Speaker 1: right wing evangelical community with the kind of moral clarity
Speaker 1: that Martin Luther King Junior brought forward in the Birmingham letter.
Speaker 3: I don't. I mean I didn't follow him very closely.
Speaker 5: But wasn't Charlie Kirk kind of a religious didn't he
Speaker 5: talk about religion and Christianity?
Speaker 1: Well he should, he should while alive, should have been targeted,
Speaker 1: in my opinion. But I'm not aware of anyone who
Speaker 1: is making a moral appeal to them about the injustice
Speaker 1: that's taking place in our land quite like doctor King
Speaker 1: did at age under age thirty nine when he wrote
Speaker 1: this letter from a Birmingham jail. He's targeting this audience.
Speaker 1: John Digles, No, he is.
Speaker 2: And he's as you said, he didn't have the technology.
Speaker 2: I think a new generation of influencers is doing this.
Speaker 2: The words of doctor King could get more, a lot
Speaker 2: more into that conversation, right, because he did not have
Speaker 2: the technology. But I think the power of his letter
Speaker 2: and what makes it so timeless again is that setting
Speaker 2: and the sense of invitation urgency that he pulled through
Speaker 2: and so much of that what got people involved.
Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson. You're listening to Jessey Jackson Junior Show
Speaker 1: on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. It's Fat Need Friday's More
Speaker 1: with John Diggles, Gina Towns and John Lets the other Woman.
Speaker 3: We come form Yes.
Speaker 1: Jackson Junior Show on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. We are commemorating, celebrating, thinking,
Speaker 1: and reflecting on the ninety seventh birthday of Martin Luther
Speaker 1: King Junior. That's the period from January fifteenth to the
Speaker 1: third Monday in the month celebrate celebrated as a federal holiday.
Speaker 1: Are very special guests on Fat Meat Fridays. Our regular
Speaker 1: contributor every Friday is none other than the creator of
Speaker 1: the Jesse Jackson Junior Show, Gina Towns. Gina, Welcome forward
Speaker 1: to the show.
Speaker 4: Hi Jesse Jackson Junior and Happy Friday. Thank god. It
Speaker 4: is a lot going on in the midst of our
Speaker 4: King celebration yes week this week, and I can take
Speaker 4: them if you don't mind, Can I take a moment?
Speaker 1: I was going to introduce our two guests again. You
Speaker 1: can do it again.
Speaker 4: I want to just give a shout out to the
Speaker 4: members for I did not forget but the members of
Speaker 4: Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority incorporated those of us from Delta
Speaker 4: Sigma Theta wish you a happy Founder's Day. And I
Speaker 4: also didn't want to do it on the King Holiday,
Speaker 4: so let me just make that right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, all right, very special guest in this hour,
Speaker 1: our John Lescioti. John Leaciotis is a former account exec
Speaker 1: and officer of outdoor advertising and media targeting and campaign targeting,
Speaker 1: but also nonprofit and for profit targeting of individuals and
Speaker 1: John Diggles is one of the relations leading public relations
Speaker 1: professionals who's using artificial intelligence and logarithms for targeting messages
Speaker 1: and what we have here is a message from Martin
Speaker 1: Luther King Junior and the letter from a Birmingham jail
Speaker 1: targeting evangelicals and those who are questioning why he's in
Speaker 1: Birmingham in the first place. And I'm going to this
Speaker 1: conversation has been largely inspired by John Lesiotis, and I'd
Speaker 1: like John to further dive deeper into why do you
Speaker 1: think doctor King wanted to target this group that was
Speaker 1: criticizing him. I can only imagine on the outside, by
Speaker 1: the way Gina, they were saying, I'm glad he's in jail,
Speaker 1: I'm glad there, and he took the opportunity while in
Speaker 1: jail to say I really should not be here, but
Speaker 1: like Ball, if I have to suffer through this to
Speaker 1: get your attention, I will.
Speaker 5: John leilas well, I think he from what I understand,
Speaker 5: he picked Birmingham because the Birmingham students from an African
Speaker 5: American college Downer had organized at Boycott earlier and had
Speaker 5: been successful. It was a department store, and the department
Speaker 5: store lost a bunch of business, so I think he
Speaker 5: saw an opportunity, a soft spot perhaps in Birmingham to
Speaker 5: make his point. The reason I think he get it
Speaker 5: with regards to the and I think it was maybe
Speaker 5: seven or eight ministers and a couple of rabbis in
Speaker 5: there as well. It was multi denominational as in a way.
Speaker 5: I think you wanted to break the patriarchy that was
Speaker 5: you know, that's part of religion. I mean it's male
Speaker 5: dominated and there's a pecking order in it, and I
Speaker 5: think he saw that he had to kind of break
Speaker 5: through that to convince these people that they had to
Speaker 5: come along for the ride, that they couldn't wait any longer.
Speaker 1: You know, John, Before bring John Diggles this, let me
Speaker 1: ask you one other follow up question. He is he
Speaker 1: is careful in the language that he chooses in this
Speaker 1: letter always, and it's clear to me that he must
Speaker 1: have understood the historical significance of it, that we would
Speaker 1: be discussing it almost fifty years later. So he gave
Speaker 1: a considerable thought to the conversation with our reflection, our
Speaker 1: present reflection upon what he did then, so that we
Speaker 1: might arrive at a conclusion today. You're a meeting a
Speaker 1: targeting expert specialist, John, what is doctor King telling us
Speaker 1: today from the letter from a Birmingham champl Well.
Speaker 5: I think there's so many messages in it, but I
Speaker 5: think most importantly it's it's a call to action. It's
Speaker 5: it's a call for those moderates to finally grow a spine,
Speaker 5: for lack of better definition, and to take and to
Speaker 5: get off the sidelines and do something. And it's not
Speaker 5: everyone doing the same thing, but it's everyone doing something.
Speaker 5: And I think that's what he's urging the moderates to do.
Speaker 1: John, Let's jotiss. I'm sorry, John Diggles, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: John, hit it just right. And one of my look
Speaker 2: one of the I've I've spent my career in communications.
Speaker 2: I love the power of language.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite things that doctor King does in
Speaker 2: the letter is that he takes words and labels that
Speaker 2: were placed on him and on the civil rights movement
Speaker 2: and he uses them to his advantage. Doctor King was
Speaker 2: seen as an extremist and so many pastors could not
Speaker 2: be involved, and he reminded them that Jesus Christ was
Speaker 2: also viewed as an extremist, and that famous line of
Speaker 2: the letter that comes forth and he says, so, then
Speaker 2: I ask you, shall we be an extremist for hate?
Speaker 2: Or shall we be an extremist for love?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: He gave them that power, that permission for pastors to
Speaker 2: say to their congregations, to say, just as Christ had
Speaker 2: to stand and fight for love and for faith to
Speaker 2: start his church. So Reverend King also is this extremist
Speaker 2: for love to change us and invite us into the movement.
Speaker 2: It's a masterful use of language.
Speaker 1: That permission, Gina, that permission.
Speaker 4: To John decided to take a moment. I just gotta
Speaker 4: tell you, the agency transforms into the chart. I'm not
Speaker 4: mad at it, because you know, if you think about it,
Speaker 4: the things that we do in our lives. You know,
Speaker 4: sometimes we get really bogged down by a job. But
Speaker 4: if you are, if you have a career and you're
Speaker 4: doing something you love, it really does become ministry. And
Speaker 4: so the things that John just said are applicable across
Speaker 4: the board. But what I you know, and thank you
Speaker 4: for that, John, You're gonna either pick a side, I
Speaker 4: think is what he was getting at. And then you know,
Speaker 4: from the very beginning he was like, usually I don't
Speaker 4: deal with the criticism that comes. But because this is
Speaker 4: the subject matter that we're talking about, it is love
Speaker 4: versus Hayden, we all claim to be on the same
Speaker 4: page on that he's also dealing with the hypocrisy, you know.
Speaker 4: And so we are at a place where our hypocrisy,
Speaker 4: while it has been in the back ground a little bit,
Speaker 4: because we've made some strides. I mean, that's how we're viewed,
Speaker 4: you know, around the world to some extent in some
Speaker 4: of our dealings and abroad. But then when it comes
Speaker 4: to how people see the things that go on at home,
Speaker 4: they see that hypocrisy. And I love that. Martin Luther
Speaker 4: King was like, I'm going to sit here, right here
Speaker 4: in this jail cell, and I am going to deal
Speaker 4: with the issue of hypocrisy on what we say we believe.
Speaker 4: And there was no better place.
Speaker 1: For me.
Speaker 4: For it to have been done. Because if you look
Speaker 4: at any anybody who got used throughout the Scripture, they
Speaker 4: spend some time in jail or a solitude or something.
Speaker 4: He left them with their thoughts, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Mister diggles Orton. So let's see what is your response.
Speaker 5: Well, she mentioned a key word to hypocrisy, and I
Speaker 5: would make the case that the country was kind of
Speaker 5: built on hypocrisy.
Speaker 3: Gina Jesse. We got a constitution that states that.
Speaker 5: All men are created equals, but yet half the men
Speaker 5: that signed that Constitution went home to slaves.
Speaker 3: So today we fight wars to bring peace.
Speaker 5: A lot of and a lot of people that are
Speaker 5: on the right wing right now claim to be Christians.
Speaker 5: So I think the idea of hypocrisy is kind of
Speaker 5: a common thread that's run through the history of this country.
Speaker 1: So let's see, mister Diggles.
Speaker 2: It will always stand out for me. The themes of
Speaker 2: the letters here is that sense of invitation and how
Speaker 2: he taught pastors who read that and immersed his words
Speaker 2: to say, Okay, if this is how your congregation sees this,
Speaker 2: I'll work with the labels they have. I want you
Speaker 2: to redefine it. And that's what he did and is
Speaker 2: his letter challenged them, but it also did so as
Speaker 2: an invitation and with love, and that that was the
Speaker 2: way I think he really changed the thinking. That's why
Speaker 2: that letter is so timeless. That's why so many of
Speaker 2: us should spend this week and posting our favorite parts
Speaker 2: of it on social We have to remind people of
Speaker 2: the power of those words.
Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson Junior listening to the Jesse Jackson Junior
Speaker 1: Show on KBLA Talk fifteen to eighty. This is that
Speaker 1: meet Fridays with Gina Towns, our very special guest mister
Speaker 1: John Diggles and mister John leasiotis more when we come
Speaker 1: forward on KBLA Talk fifteen eight Jackson Junior were bo
Speaker 1: from Missy Jackson Junior Show on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty.
Speaker 1: I must share with you before as we enter this
Speaker 1: last segment of our show per hour, that my mother
Speaker 1: received an amazing award from the City of Chicago today,
Speaker 1: presented to her by Brandon Johnson and by the City
Speaker 1: of Chicago for her more than five six decades of
Speaker 1: activism and work here in the city, in the mission,
Speaker 1: and around the country. I'm particularly proud of that on
Speaker 1: this Elis Martin Luther King Junior ninety seventh birthday. I
Speaker 1: also want to share that Vice President Kamala Harris was
Speaker 1: the guest speaker of that at that particular event, and
Speaker 1: out of the kindness of her heart, at the end
Speaker 1: of the event, she came to my mother's apartment and
Speaker 1: spent a good hour, maybe an hour and a half
Speaker 1: with my father, the Reverend Jesse Jackson. These pictures and
Speaker 1: these images all belong to my mother as she reflects
Speaker 1: upon the significance of my father's contribution and to the
Speaker 1: extent that my father can talk, he did speak with
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris today. So there's your little breaking news. But
Speaker 1: Reverend Jackson in the last week has had Stevie Wonder
Speaker 1: come and visit, Kamala Harris come and visit. In the
Speaker 1: last month and a half, including Bill Clinton and Hillary
Speaker 1: Clinton came and visited, and our family is extremely grateful.
Speaker 1: I have a question that I want to ask Gina
Speaker 1: of John Lesiotis and John Diggles, But let me start
Speaker 1: with John Diggles. If Doctor King were alive today, what
Speaker 1: would you ask him?
Speaker 2: John Diggles, I would ask him about the hardest part
Speaker 2: of his journey and what he did or what he
Speaker 2: thought that got him through that. And I would just
Speaker 2: like to sit with that because I do think that
Speaker 2: I'd be surprised by that answer about where the hardest
Speaker 2: part was and what he did to get through it.
Speaker 2: I would ask him about his doubts about his life's
Speaker 2: mission and what.
Speaker 1: He did to get through those.
Speaker 2: And I would ask him about any regrets that he
Speaker 2: had about certain things about how he things he might
Speaker 2: have learned about how to say something or deliver something
Speaker 2: that he might have gone back and changed again. To
Speaker 2: have that conversation would be a blessing. And Jesse, congratulations
Speaker 2: to your mom. Are ongoing prayers for your father a
Speaker 2: special day for your.
Speaker 1: Family, John, I appreciate that. You know. When I think
Speaker 1: about doctor King, I feel like I am speaking to
Speaker 1: a four hundred year old sage. But he was assassinated
Speaker 1: at age thirty nine. I want to puss the same
Speaker 1: question to John, to John Lecio, his John, what would
Speaker 1: you ask Doctor King today?
Speaker 3: Well, I would ask him, I guess in his dark
Speaker 3: as hours.
Speaker 5: Other than the Bible, the people that he got inspiration
Speaker 5: from are the writers that he read uh to get
Speaker 5: inspiration to get through some of the tough times, especially
Speaker 5: in jail.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: There had to have been someone that that that he
Speaker 3: really uh looked up to.
Speaker 1: Gina just put Howard Thurman on you.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 4: He had some meditations through the heart moment.
Speaker 3: I believe.
Speaker 1: I believe today he'd be reading the work of Walter Flucker.
Speaker 1: I think reading the work of Oberon Hendricks. I think
Speaker 1: he'd been following Reverend Jackson, Reverend Sharpton. I think he'd
Speaker 1: be following obviously Andy Young and Reverend Barbara. I'm sorry, John,
Speaker 1: I need me to cut you off.
Speaker 3: Quid no, no, I agree with it.
Speaker 5: And I remember you mentioned mister Thurman before, so uh,
Speaker 5: I know he was a great inspiration for for doctor King.
Speaker 5: But I also did want to follow up with John Dingles.
Speaker 5: Diggles and mentioned to you about your mother's award and
Speaker 5: that's terrific for her and uh, hopefully Donald Trump will
Speaker 5: find out about the and ask.
Speaker 4: Ask him to.
Speaker 2: Award the Jack.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: Man, you know what I had almost just a whole
Speaker 4: moment of slip off the show, sliding down the side
Speaker 4: of the right there. Okay, So anyway, so John Diggles
Speaker 4: that I thought your question was fascinating. And here's why.
Speaker 4: To know what King might have felt as fear or concerned,
Speaker 4: I think makes him relatable to where we are right now.
Speaker 4: And because the issue of fear and the power that
Speaker 4: fear can have. You know, if he said, you know what, yeah,
Speaker 4: I was scared sometimes, you know, being in the in
Speaker 4: the burming. Let me say it again, Birmingham jail. You
Speaker 4: know you might not make it out if not for
Speaker 4: the President calling uh and and for you know, the
Speaker 4: the the pressure that it was to make sure that
Speaker 4: you were safe in the jail. There were plenty of
Speaker 4: people who did not make it out of some of
Speaker 4: the circumstances that they made. And even now with what
Speaker 4: we see going on in Minneapolis in a heightened level
Speaker 4: of interaction between ice, isn't there an amazing silence?
Speaker 1: Isn't there an amazing silence? The very silent and betrayal
Speaker 1: that doctor King is talking about a Birmingham? Aren't we
Speaker 1: seeing that right now? By the I know Father Flagger's
Speaker 1: raising hell. I know certain ministers are raising hell, but
Speaker 1: are there enough ministers raising hell?
Speaker 4: Is it time for a letter to be written? I
Speaker 4: mean I have from a jail, and you do see,
Speaker 4: you know, we don't want to ever take away from
Speaker 4: you know, what is being said and what is being
Speaker 4: done in people that are standing in the gap. But
Speaker 4: there's far too and this is what King is addressing,
Speaker 4: there are far too many people who are not saying
Speaker 4: anything about what we're seeing in Minneapolis.
Speaker 1: G Can I give a word of hope to our ASCAR,
Speaker 1: to guests in this hour because I do know that
Speaker 1: we're moving forward in just a moment, maybe two minutes
Speaker 1: for John lesiotis followed by two minutes from John Diggles.
Speaker 1: Mister lesiotis a word of hope on this the ninety
Speaker 1: seventh birthday of Martin Luther King Junior.
Speaker 5: Well, I do think that there's reason to be hopeful here, Jesse,
Speaker 5: because I'm convinced in my heart that there are more
Speaker 5: good people out there than otherwise. And as a personal note,
Speaker 5: I've got two friends up in Minneapolis. My wife was
Speaker 5: just up there on business recently, and she was explaining
Speaker 5: to me that the community is really pulling together. The
Speaker 5: white community is pulling together up there. Two of her
Speaker 5: friends are shopping for some Hispanic neighbors and are showing
Speaker 5: their kids.
Speaker 3: Back and forth at the school.
Speaker 5: And I see a lot of resistance here in Chicago,
Speaker 5: and I really do think that this is the issue.
Speaker 3: That's going to push a lot of moderates to take
Speaker 3: some action.
Speaker 5: So I do hold out optimism and hope, and I think,
Speaker 5: especially with doctor King's birthday coming up, a lot of
Speaker 5: people are going to start reflecting and understanding that we
Speaker 5: can't sit by and wait for someone else to do something.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, mister lasiotis boy, You've just given me
Speaker 1: a bunch of ideas, The idea that we should be
Speaker 1: helping our Latino brothers and sisters and their children get
Speaker 1: to and from school and not exposing their parents to
Speaker 1: the plague that is troubling all of our communities.
Speaker 2: Mister Dickles, I think the message of hope is right
Speaker 2: there at the end of doctor King's letter when he
Speaker 2: shows the pastors and he talks about the non violent
Speaker 2: protesters who are there, who've done this entire time, who
Speaker 2: have stood up, and he says specifically for the sublime courage,
Speaker 2: for their willingness to suffer and their amazing discipline in
Speaker 2: the midst of great provocation. Is that now that that sentence,
Speaker 2: those words fit so well for today, right now, what's
Speaker 2: happening in Minneapolis and across the country. It is a
Speaker 2: reminder of what took place in that journey and what
Speaker 2: the discipline and commitment it took to bring forth meaningful change.
Speaker 2: I'll be spending some time and I'm going to read
Speaker 2: that ending a couple of times. I hope everyone does
Speaker 2: as well. There's incredible hope there because we remember where
Speaker 2: we came from.
Speaker 1: Those words and phrases, Gina, about forty five seconds remains
Speaker 1: in our program.
Speaker 4: Well, I do like the graphic never give up, never
Speaker 4: give up our dignity, our faith, and our ability to
Speaker 4: dream of a world rid of color lines and a
Speaker 4: world that is better than the one that we left behind,
Speaker 4: that that was left to us. And so there will
Speaker 4: be trials, there will be tribulations, but we are reaching
Speaker 4: for brotherhood and what that takes us for us to
Speaker 4: be fearless and to stay awake and to seek after
Speaker 4: the knowledge that is Martin Luther King. So that's what
Speaker 4: I've got for you.
Speaker 1: Grateful for your presence on our show.
Speaker 3: John Lesiotis, thank you, Jesse, love you.
Speaker 1: You know you're always welcome and I love you too.
Speaker 1: And there's nothing you can do about it. I got
Speaker 1: that from Tavis. Thank you for being on our show.
Speaker 1: Mister Diggles, thank you very much.
Speaker 2: It's good to see you.
Speaker 1: And there's nothing you can do about it either.
Speaker 6: We love you.
Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson. Been listening to Jackson doing your show
Speaker 1: on Fat Meat Fridays with Gina Towns. More with Gina
Speaker 1: Towns when we come forward on k Talk