Speaker 1: Seventh birthday period of Martin Luther King Junior, and we
are discussing today and through this period, certainly through the
holiday recognized by the federal government on Monday, the life,
the mission, the ministry of Martin Luther King Junior and
what its impact has and what does it say about
our time. We began our conversation at the beginning of
the week with none other than Terry Horde Owens. We
touched upon some of these issues on Tenacious Tuesdays with
Barbara Arnwine and Liz King. Revent tard Urie joined us
along with a Tiba in conversation yesterday, on Wealthy Wednesdays
and on thought Provoking Thursdays. P L Da Silva as
well as his very special guest, along with Johnny Mack,
explored the global implications of what thirty nine year old
Martin Luther King Junior, at the hour of his assassination
thirty nine years old, had to share with the world.
In this hour, we're going to take a hard look,
a deep dive into the Letter from a Birmingham Jail
because of its historical significance, its implications, some of its origins,
and why doctor King's thinking was so prolific. I'm particularly
honored that our very special guest in this hour is
not none other than John Diggles. John Diggles is a
healthcare professional, and over the course of our show, I
will give you more and more about his biography, and
of course, activist thinker, political commentator, former executive in outdoor
advertising John Leciotis will also be joining us in this hour.
Both have been apprized of the subject matter and are
well aware of the fact that Martin Luther King Junior's
letter from a Birmingham jail was a turning point in
Christian theological practice. Gentlemen, welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson
Junior Show.
Speaker 2: Jesse, it's good to see you.
Speaker 3: Thanks Jesse. Thanks for now.
Speaker 1: This is fat Meet Fridays, So I don't want anyone
to think for one moment that we don't have an
additional contributor who is absolutely with us. She is the
creator of the Jesse Jackson Junior Show, and I'm so
grateful to call her my very close, dear and best friend.
The work that she does on this show is extraordinary.
In fact, there are other radio shows and radio stations
around the country that watch our show. Very carefully and
they are following the leadership that Gina Towns has established
for the Jesse Jackson Junior Show as really a breakthrough
moment in media communications. So much of what was once
AM and FM has now moved over to the app.
That is, we are listened to in London, in Johannesburg,
South Africa, Frankfurt, Germany and other parts of the world.
And that's in no small measure because the times are changing,
so is the technology. More people probably listen to our
program on the app than they actually do on terrestrial radio.
It simply wouldn't be possible because I simply gave no
thought to it without the leadership the thinking of Gina Towns.
She felt that we needed a platform that was brought
enough to share ideas across a broad global spectrum. And
here we are. Gina, welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson
Junior Show.
Speaker 4: You know what, Jesse, I almost forgot. It was that
good Friday to have John and John.
Speaker 1: Hey, Gina, let me ask you this question, why the
letter from a Birmingham jail.
Speaker 4: Well, before I go there, if you don't mind the
liberty because you said a lot right there, so thank you.
But we have to give homage and credit to the
forty year veteran, that is, to have a smiley and
his tutelage and his mentorship in this venture, especially for me,
and I will not speak for you, but to allow
us to grow on this platform and imitate what he
does as best we can and try to sprout off.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that if I get the Capitol Hill, there
are no guarantees this is an American election. If I
get there, it is my intention to take the show
with us, and I plan to literally usher from Dominique
di Prima through Tavis's show, through Nie Cordlai Corte. It's
many of my colleagues to frequent ABLA as a primary
vehicle by which we share what's taking place in Washington.
Pring daily that Democrats regain control. But if we don't
regain control, that is, the resistance movement does not gain
control of the Congress, certainly Democrats will have a lot
to say about the future of this nation, given the
extraordinary times that we find ourselves in. And so this
show and this platform is a significant part of why
I wanted to do this in the first place. The
idea of going to Congress, you know, with a radio show,
plugging people directly into their members of Congress and senators
and discussing in real time what the hell is going
on in this country. I think that matters to this.
Speaker 2: That is Jesse, and you're really good at it. The
fact that you can bring voices and give a platform
and have an honest, open discussion with your audience nationally,
you're really really good at it. We're grateful for you.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Gena.
Speaker 4: So on the Birmingham hand, the letter from Birmingham Jail
that was John lesiotis when we began to talk about
Martin Luther King, and that I wanted to continue on
from yesterday in the celebration. I think there's a lot
of reflection that we need to do. I think there
should be a lot of reading going on over the
weekend of the various materials that are available to us
to really glean from Martin Luther King's heart and his
mind for justice. And so John suggested that he wanted
to look at the letter from Birmingham Jail, and so
in the next segment, I have a clip for us
to do a little listening and then we'll do a
little discussion.
Speaker 1: Knowing that our break is coming up soon, John, I
want thank you for bringing our attention once again to
the matters of Birmingham. Looking forward to that discussion when
we call KBLA Talk fifteen eighty and before we begin
with Gina's clip in the next segment, I'm going to
probe mister Lesciotis is thinking why the letter from a
Birmingham jail? Why did that stand out for him? Then?
Why should we be reflective upon it now? And what
are some of its consequences. Gina will then come back
forward with a clip of doctor King regarding the letter
from a Birmingham jail, and then we will begin a
robust conversation. I'm Jesse Jackson, Jr. This is the ninety
seventh birthday of Martin Luther King Junior, born on January fifth,
a holiday period celebrated on the third Monday of the
month of January by the by virtue of Congress and
the signature of the President of the United States. I'm
Jesse Jackson, Gi Moore on k Late Talk fifteen eighty.
When we come forward, Gatown Junior show a regular career
John Leciotis, Rod, Let's talk about it. Series Political activists, analysts,
and every second Tuesday of the month guest on the
Jesse Jackson Junior Show series Let's Talk About It. John
Leciotis puts real talk in the middle of the floor
about the ways Republicans view democrats and vice versa, the
ways democrats view Republicans in a dialogue filled with messaging
and messenger troops. John Lasiotis, welcome forward to the program.
I'll give the appropriate introduction of John Diggles in just
a moment, but why don't we get started, John.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Jesse.
Speaker 1: It's an honor to have you John.
Speaker 3: The letters are a.
Speaker 5: Great interest in me, Jessic because I think they really
speak to the times what's going on in America right now.
And what first drew me to the letters is when
I found out that he wrote those letters to a
number of white religious leaders in America that we're urging
King to slow down and to wait for the courts
to take action.
Speaker 3: And King wrote a rather.
Speaker 5: Lengthy letter explaining that he had been waiting a long
time and the courts hadn't acted, and more importantly, that
people have a moral responsibility to break unjust laws, and
he was tired of waiting for quite frankly, the moderate
white to step up and to do something. He had
known that he wasn't going to get the support of
the right wing in the Kupleux Klan. He knew he
had the support of the white liberals, but it was
the white moderate that was really standing in the way
of progress. And I look at what's happening across America
right now and I kind of see something similar where
we've got the moderates that are kind of standing off
to the side just watching what's going on. Certainly for
the last election, they stood on the sidelines. You know,
thirty percent of America at least didn't come out to vote.
And so it kind of resonates with me the letters
because it speaks to what's happening today.
Speaker 1: John Diggles is and serves as CEO and founder of
Ascent Strategy, providing services and digital transformation, corporate storytelling, employer
brand strategy, marketing of clinical research, and ROI measurement. The
agency's IP uses proprietary communications algorithms combining online community insights
with medical professional perspectives, patient observations, and market data to
promote adoption of telemedicine, remote patient monitoring and healthcare, artificial intelligence,
among other offerings. John, welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson
Junior Show.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jesse. It's good to be with you.
Speaker 3: It's good to be with you. For fat Meat Friday.
Speaker 1: This is awesome, Hey, John. An insightful observation by John
lesiotis about the white moderate John.
Speaker 2: It always stood out to me the letter from Birmingham
Jail about the clarity that Reverend King had sitting in there,
and think in that setting, in that setting, he was
able to put these words for it, and that was
his thoughts about how he needed to engage the country.
I think John hit it right on the head. When
politics becomes so hot and sides dig in, you have
your far left, far left, far right sides dig in,
so much of the middle scenes to tune out sometimes,
and I think that was Reverend Kings is that the
struggle has to be one you have to help us
get this. We need your voice, we need your attention
to this. And I feel that way about a lot
of things, including healthcare and health inequity. You know, Reverend
King said something that also changed my life. He said
that injustice in healthcare is one of the most severe
forms of inequality. It's why I started this company and
why we do what we do because the only way
to bridge to address those inequities is to think differently,
be involved, and look to new solutions.
Speaker 1: Gina, you're a Princeton Theological Seminary graduate. Congratulations on recently
receiving your Masters of Arts in Theology.
Speaker 4: Genie.
Speaker 1: About the heavyweights, uh to the show today with a
very very heavy topic, the letter from a Birmingham jail.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, and I want to go to the clip,
but I also want to tell our listeners who are
not able to see us that John and John are
white and so.
Speaker 1: I love.
Speaker 4: Conversation because conversations we need to be having across the
aisles at church.
Speaker 2: I thought they were born.
Speaker 1: Across Gina. These are two wild and crazy guys that
I thought were born black guys. Pour down deep Now.
Speaker 4: I love this because you know, our Monday host in
the first hour, mister Krim and mister Class always talks
about the fact that we cannot ignore that there are
people who are open to all subject matters, and it
takes all of us, It takes the entire village, the
people down the street and around the corner to raise
this child called America. And so with that, Jesse, if
you're okay, let's go ahead and let's go.
Speaker 1: To the clip.
Speaker 6: Dear fellow clergyman, While confined here in the Birmingham City Jail,
I came across your recent statement calling my present activities
unwise and untimely. Seldom do I pause to answer criticism
of my work and ideas. If I sought to answer
all the criticisms that cross my desk, my secretaries would
have little time for anything other than such correspondence in
the course of the day, and I would have no
time for constructive work. But since I feel that you
are men of genuine goodwill and that your criticisms are
sincerely set forth, I want to try to answer your
statement in what I hope will be patient and reasonable terms.
I think I should indicate why I am here in Birmingham,
since you have been influenced by the view which argues
against outsiders coming in. I have the honor of serving
as president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, an organization
operating in every Southern state with headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia.
We have some eighty five affiliated organizations across the South,
and one of them is the Alabama Christian Movement for
Human Rights. Frequently we share staff, educational and financial resources
with our affiliates. Several months ago, the affiliates here in
Birmingham asked us to be on call to engage in
a nonviolent direct action program if such were deemed necessary.
We readily consented, and when the hour came, we lived
up to our promise. So I, along with several members
of my staff, am here because I was invited here.
I am here because I have organizational ties here. But
more basically, I am in Birmingham because injustice is here.
Just as the prophets of the eighth century BC left
their villages and carried there thus saith the Lord far
beyond the boundaries of their hometowns. And just as the
apostle Paul left his village of Tarsus and carried the
gospel of Jesus Christ to the far corners of the
great go Roman world, so am I compelled to carry
the gospel of freedom beyond my own hometown. Like Paul,
I must constantly respond to the Macedonian call for aid. Moreover,
I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states.
I cannot sit idly by in Atlanta and not be
concerned about what happens in Birmingham. In justice anywhere is
a threat to justice everywhere. We are called in an inescapable.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Jesse Jackson Junior show. That was
Senator Rafael Warnock, Reverend Senator Rafael Warnock, the pastor and
to a significant degree in terms of the ministry of
Martin Luther King Junior, the pastor of the Ebenezer Baptist
Church who happens to serve in the United States Senate
from Georgia, a church that Martin Luther King Junior was
pastor of, and so the historical significance of that pastor
being able to read that speech on the floor of
the United States Senate is as remarkable as the idea
of writing the speech in the first place. Gina, I
want to allow you and opportunity to engage with mister
Lessiotis and mister Diggles on the target of this speech,
white evangelical clergymen who are questioning the theological tradition of
doctor King and the freedom movement.
Speaker 4: Well, thanks, Jesse, I mean it was pretty self explanatory,
and you're right Reverend Warnock reading that being a member
of the clergy and the members of the Senate, Reverend
Doctor cong Senator Raphael Warnock addressing the question in that
part of the letter where people are questioning him and
trying to keep us in boxes and keeping civil rights
and injustice in a certain place, and retaining things that
quote unquote belong in this political box or this biblical box,
if you will. In this idea of church and state
being separate except for our morality and our level of
justice towards one another. Uh is inextricably tied to.
Speaker 1: The law.
Speaker 4: So when you think about that, and you and you
hear that, and I know that both of you are
engaging with conversations on the golf court. Well we're not
golfing right now, but I know, John, that just comes
to mind all the time. With John engaging in these
conversations with your friends who likely don't listen to the
Jesse Jackson Junior Show, who may not be familiar with
or any of King's speeches for that matter. You know,
how do you relate the idea that King was addressing
in that letter and the responsibility that we have.
Speaker 5: Well that's a tough one because most of the times
when you bring up you know, because another thing I
loved about the letters from Birmingham Jails is the quote
you ended the tape with an injustice anywhere is a
threat to justice everywhere. I think that's really pertinent now,
and I bring it up to my friends because a
couple of them happen to be Jewish to live up
here in the North Shore, and you know, we talked
a little bit about what's going on with Gaza, and
I explained to them that there's some bit of a
relationship on us turning our blind eye to what's going
on in Gaza and what's happening in our country, you know,
because that's an injustice over there, and we should be
almost as concerned, if not more concerned about it because
of the genocide there, than we are what's going on
at home. But yet we kind of detach ourselves from it,
and we pretend because most of us live in a
pretty comfortable environment. We're not threatened with job and security necessarily,
or food and security. Our neighborhoods are relatively safe. So
in our little world, you know, despite what's going on
around us, things aren't all that awful. So I think
a lot of people just getting that comfort zone and
turn to blind and I of what's going on around him.
Speaker 1: John, But you are you are seminary trained. You you
understand directly the target audience. Of course John Lecialdas does
as well. But you understand like John does, the target
audience to which Doctor King was addressing. Uh. This this
this profound moral treatise your thoughts.
Speaker 2: John, And that's the that is the power. The first
time I read the letter, I understood where he was
coming from. You almost see doctor King. I mean, I'm
in communications right. You have to write to your audience.
He's masterful at it. And I think, you know, one
of my favorite things about the way to celebrate his
day and this time of year is to take parts,
quotes and parts of that letter and put him on
social media to remind you see the power of what
he wrote and who he was writing to. He knew
how to get his message across. One of the great
communicators of our time, of the of the twentieth century.
He set an example for us how to invite people in.
And by the way, speaking about how to invite people in,
you know, all my friends are listening because I texted
them the whole link to this there listens.
Speaker 4: Well by the way.
Speaker 1: We should all do that. Hey, John, let me can
I can?
Speaker 2: I can?
Speaker 1: I can I pivot? I know we don't have about
a minute and thirty seconds before we come forward. But
given that John Lesiotis was in the advertising business and
he understands targeting and audience, and given that you're in
the algorithmic business for healthcare and you understand the significance
of targeting and audience, doctor King, without all the technology
that we have today, was deliberately targeting an audience. Do
you know anybody under age forty today who's targeting the
right wing evangelical community with the kind of moral clarity
that Martin Luther King Junior brought forward in the Birmingham letter.
Speaker 3: I don't. I mean I didn't follow him very closely.
Speaker 5: But wasn't Charlie Kirk kind of a religious didn't he
talk about religion and Christianity?
Speaker 1: Well he should, he should while alive, should have been targeted,
in my opinion. But I'm not aware of anyone who
is making a moral appeal to them about the injustice
that's taking place in our land quite like doctor King
did at age under age thirty nine when he wrote
this letter from a Birmingham jail. He's targeting this audience.
John Digles, No, he is.
Speaker 2: And he's as you said, he didn't have the technology.
I think a new generation of influencers is doing this.
The words of doctor King could get more, a lot
more into that conversation, right, because he did not have
the technology. But I think the power of his letter
and what makes it so timeless again is that setting
and the sense of invitation urgency that he pulled through
and so much of that what got people involved.
Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson. You're listening to Jessey Jackson Junior Show
on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. It's Fat Need Friday's More
with John Diggles, Gina Towns and John Lets the other Woman.
Speaker 3: We come form Yes.
Speaker 1: Jackson Junior Show on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. We are commemorating, celebrating, thinking,
and reflecting on the ninety seventh birthday of Martin Luther
King Junior. That's the period from January fifteenth to the
third Monday in the month celebrate celebrated as a federal holiday.
Are very special guests on Fat Meat Fridays. Our regular
contributor every Friday is none other than the creator of
the Jesse Jackson Junior Show, Gina Towns. Gina, Welcome forward
to the show.
Speaker 4: Hi Jesse Jackson Junior and Happy Friday. Thank god. It
is a lot going on in the midst of our
King celebration yes week this week, and I can take
them if you don't mind, Can I take a moment?
Speaker 1: I was going to introduce our two guests again. You
can do it again.
Speaker 4: I want to just give a shout out to the
members for I did not forget but the members of
Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority incorporated those of us from Delta
Sigma Theta wish you a happy Founder's Day. And I
also didn't want to do it on the King Holiday,
so let me just make that right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, all right, very special guest in this hour,
our John Lescioti. John Leaciotis is a former account exec
and officer of outdoor advertising and media targeting and campaign targeting,
but also nonprofit and for profit targeting of individuals and
John Diggles is one of the relations leading public relations
professionals who's using artificial intelligence and logarithms for targeting messages
and what we have here is a message from Martin
Luther King Junior and the letter from a Birmingham jail
targeting evangelicals and those who are questioning why he's in
Birmingham in the first place. And I'm going to this
conversation has been largely inspired by John Lesiotis, and I'd
like John to further dive deeper into why do you
think doctor King wanted to target this group that was
criticizing him. I can only imagine on the outside, by
the way Gina, they were saying, I'm glad he's in jail,
I'm glad there, and he took the opportunity while in
jail to say I really should not be here, but
like Ball, if I have to suffer through this to
get your attention, I will.
Speaker 5: John leilas well, I think he from what I understand,
he picked Birmingham because the Birmingham students from an African
American college Downer had organized at Boycott earlier and had
been successful. It was a department store, and the department
store lost a bunch of business, so I think he
saw an opportunity, a soft spot perhaps in Birmingham to
make his point. The reason I think he get it
with regards to the and I think it was maybe
seven or eight ministers and a couple of rabbis in
there as well. It was multi denominational as in a way.
I think you wanted to break the patriarchy that was
you know, that's part of religion. I mean it's male
dominated and there's a pecking order in it, and I
think he saw that he had to kind of break
through that to convince these people that they had to
come along for the ride, that they couldn't wait any longer.
Speaker 1: You know, John, Before bring John Diggles this, let me
ask you one other follow up question. He is he
is careful in the language that he chooses in this
letter always, and it's clear to me that he must
have understood the historical significance of it, that we would
be discussing it almost fifty years later. So he gave
a considerable thought to the conversation with our reflection, our
present reflection upon what he did then, so that we
might arrive at a conclusion today. You're a meeting a
targeting expert specialist, John, what is doctor King telling us
today from the letter from a Birmingham champl Well.
Speaker 5: I think there's so many messages in it, but I
think most importantly it's it's a call to action. It's
it's a call for those moderates to finally grow a spine,
for lack of better definition, and to take and to
get off the sidelines and do something. And it's not
everyone doing the same thing, but it's everyone doing something.
And I think that's what he's urging the moderates to do.
Speaker 1: John, Let's jotiss. I'm sorry, John Diggles, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: John, hit it just right. And one of my look
one of the I've I've spent my career in communications.
I love the power of language.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite things that doctor King does in
the letter is that he takes words and labels that
were placed on him and on the civil rights movement
and he uses them to his advantage. Doctor King was
seen as an extremist and so many pastors could not
be involved, and he reminded them that Jesus Christ was
also viewed as an extremist, and that famous line of
the letter that comes forth and he says, so, then
I ask you, shall we be an extremist for hate?
Or shall we be an extremist for love?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: He gave them that power, that permission for pastors to
say to their congregations, to say, just as Christ had
to stand and fight for love and for faith to
start his church. So Reverend King also is this extremist
for love to change us and invite us into the movement.
It's a masterful use of language.
Speaker 1: That permission, Gina, that permission.
Speaker 4: To John decided to take a moment. I just gotta
tell you, the agency transforms into the chart. I'm not
mad at it, because you know, if you think about it,
the things that we do in our lives. You know,
sometimes we get really bogged down by a job. But
if you are, if you have a career and you're
doing something you love, it really does become ministry. And
so the things that John just said are applicable across
the board. But what I you know, and thank you
for that, John, You're gonna either pick a side, I
think is what he was getting at. And then you know,
from the very beginning he was like, usually I don't
deal with the criticism that comes. But because this is
the subject matter that we're talking about, it is love
versus Hayden, we all claim to be on the same
page on that he's also dealing with the hypocrisy, you know.
And so we are at a place where our hypocrisy,
while it has been in the back ground a little bit,
because we've made some strides. I mean, that's how we're viewed,
you know, around the world to some extent in some
of our dealings and abroad. But then when it comes
to how people see the things that go on at home,
they see that hypocrisy. And I love that. Martin Luther
King was like, I'm going to sit here, right here
in this jail cell, and I am going to deal
with the issue of hypocrisy on what we say we believe.
And there was no better place.
Speaker 1: For me.
Speaker 4: For it to have been done. Because if you look
at any anybody who got used throughout the Scripture, they
spend some time in jail or a solitude or something.
He left them with their thoughts, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Mister diggles Orton. So let's see what is your response.
Speaker 5: Well, she mentioned a key word to hypocrisy, and I
would make the case that the country was kind of
built on hypocrisy.
Speaker 3: Gina Jesse. We got a constitution that states that.
Speaker 5: All men are created equals, but yet half the men
that signed that Constitution went home to slaves.
Speaker 3: So today we fight wars to bring peace.
Speaker 5: A lot of and a lot of people that are
on the right wing right now claim to be Christians.
So I think the idea of hypocrisy is kind of
a common thread that's run through the history of this country.
Speaker 1: So let's see, mister Diggles.
Speaker 2: It will always stand out for me. The themes of
the letters here is that sense of invitation and how
he taught pastors who read that and immersed his words
to say, Okay, if this is how your congregation sees this,
I'll work with the labels they have. I want you
to redefine it. And that's what he did and is
his letter challenged them, but it also did so as
an invitation and with love, and that that was the
way I think he really changed the thinking. That's why
that letter is so timeless. That's why so many of
us should spend this week and posting our favorite parts
of it on social We have to remind people of
the power of those words.
Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson Junior listening to the Jesse Jackson Junior
Show on KBLA Talk fifteen to eighty. This is that
meet Fridays with Gina Towns, our very special guest mister
John Diggles and mister John leasiotis more when we come
forward on KBLA Talk fifteen eight Jackson Junior were bo
from Missy Jackson Junior Show on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty.
I must share with you before as we enter this
last segment of our show per hour, that my mother
received an amazing award from the City of Chicago today,
presented to her by Brandon Johnson and by the City
of Chicago for her more than five six decades of
activism and work here in the city, in the mission,
and around the country. I'm particularly proud of that on
this Elis Martin Luther King Junior ninety seventh birthday. I
also want to share that Vice President Kamala Harris was
the guest speaker of that at that particular event, and
out of the kindness of her heart, at the end
of the event, she came to my mother's apartment and
spent a good hour, maybe an hour and a half
with my father, the Reverend Jesse Jackson. These pictures and
these images all belong to my mother as she reflects
upon the significance of my father's contribution and to the
extent that my father can talk, he did speak with
Kamala Harris today. So there's your little breaking news. But
Reverend Jackson in the last week has had Stevie Wonder
come and visit, Kamala Harris come and visit. In the
last month and a half, including Bill Clinton and Hillary
Clinton came and visited, and our family is extremely grateful.
I have a question that I want to ask Gina
of John Lesiotis and John Diggles, But let me start
with John Diggles. If Doctor King were alive today, what
would you ask him?
Speaker 2: John Diggles, I would ask him about the hardest part
of his journey and what he did or what he
thought that got him through that. And I would just
like to sit with that because I do think that
I'd be surprised by that answer about where the hardest
part was and what he did to get through it.
I would ask him about his doubts about his life's
mission and what.
Speaker 1: He did to get through those.
Speaker 2: And I would ask him about any regrets that he
had about certain things about how he things he might
have learned about how to say something or deliver something
that he might have gone back and changed again. To
have that conversation would be a blessing. And Jesse, congratulations
to your mom. Are ongoing prayers for your father a
special day for your.
Speaker 1: Family, John, I appreciate that. You know. When I think
about doctor King, I feel like I am speaking to
a four hundred year old sage. But he was assassinated
at age thirty nine. I want to puss the same
question to John, to John Lecio, his John, what would
you ask Doctor King today?
Speaker 3: Well, I would ask him, I guess in his dark
as hours.
Speaker 5: Other than the Bible, the people that he got inspiration
from are the writers that he read uh to get
inspiration to get through some of the tough times, especially
in jail.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: There had to have been someone that that that he
really uh looked up to.
Speaker 1: Gina just put Howard Thurman on you.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 4: He had some meditations through the heart moment.
Speaker 3: I believe.
Speaker 1: I believe today he'd be reading the work of Walter Flucker.
I think reading the work of Oberon Hendricks. I think
he'd been following Reverend Jackson, Reverend Sharpton. I think he'd
be following obviously Andy Young and Reverend Barbara. I'm sorry, John,
I need me to cut you off.
Speaker 3: Quid no, no, I agree with it.
Speaker 5: And I remember you mentioned mister Thurman before, so uh,
I know he was a great inspiration for for doctor King.
But I also did want to follow up with John Dingles.
Diggles and mentioned to you about your mother's award and
that's terrific for her and uh, hopefully Donald Trump will
find out about the and ask.
Speaker 4: Ask him to.
Speaker 2: Award the Jack.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: Man, you know what I had almost just a whole
moment of slip off the show, sliding down the side
of the right there. Okay, So anyway, so John Diggles
that I thought your question was fascinating. And here's why.
To know what King might have felt as fear or concerned,
I think makes him relatable to where we are right now.
And because the issue of fear and the power that
fear can have. You know, if he said, you know what, yeah,
I was scared sometimes, you know, being in the in
the burming. Let me say it again, Birmingham jail. You
know you might not make it out if not for
the President calling uh and and for you know, the
the the pressure that it was to make sure that
you were safe in the jail. There were plenty of
people who did not make it out of some of
the circumstances that they made. And even now with what
we see going on in Minneapolis in a heightened level
of interaction between ice, isn't there an amazing silence?
Speaker 1: Isn't there an amazing silence? The very silent and betrayal
that doctor King is talking about a Birmingham? Aren't we
seeing that right now? By the I know Father Flagger's
raising hell. I know certain ministers are raising hell, but
are there enough ministers raising hell?
Speaker 4: Is it time for a letter to be written? I
mean I have from a jail, and you do see,
you know, we don't want to ever take away from
you know, what is being said and what is being
done in people that are standing in the gap. But
there's far too and this is what King is addressing,
there are far too many people who are not saying
anything about what we're seeing in Minneapolis.
Speaker 1: G Can I give a word of hope to our ASCAR,
to guests in this hour because I do know that
we're moving forward in just a moment, maybe two minutes
for John lesiotis followed by two minutes from John Diggles.
Mister lesiotis a word of hope on this the ninety
seventh birthday of Martin Luther King Junior.
Speaker 5: Well, I do think that there's reason to be hopeful here, Jesse,
because I'm convinced in my heart that there are more
good people out there than otherwise. And as a personal note,
I've got two friends up in Minneapolis. My wife was
just up there on business recently, and she was explaining
to me that the community is really pulling together. The
white community is pulling together up there. Two of her
friends are shopping for some Hispanic neighbors and are showing
their kids.
Speaker 3: Back and forth at the school.
Speaker 5: And I see a lot of resistance here in Chicago,
and I really do think that this is the issue.
Speaker 3: That's going to push a lot of moderates to take
some action.
Speaker 5: So I do hold out optimism and hope, and I think,
especially with doctor King's birthday coming up, a lot of
people are going to start reflecting and understanding that we
can't sit by and wait for someone else to do something.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, mister lasiotis boy, You've just given me
a bunch of ideas, The idea that we should be
helping our Latino brothers and sisters and their children get
to and from school and not exposing their parents to
the plague that is troubling all of our communities.
Speaker 2: Mister Dickles, I think the message of hope is right
there at the end of doctor King's letter when he
shows the pastors and he talks about the non violent
protesters who are there, who've done this entire time, who
have stood up, and he says specifically for the sublime courage,
for their willingness to suffer and their amazing discipline in
the midst of great provocation. Is that now that that sentence,
those words fit so well for today, right now, what's
happening in Minneapolis and across the country. It is a
reminder of what took place in that journey and what
the discipline and commitment it took to bring forth meaningful change.
I'll be spending some time and I'm going to read
that ending a couple of times. I hope everyone does
as well. There's incredible hope there because we remember where
we came from.
Speaker 1: Those words and phrases, Gina, about forty five seconds remains
in our program.
Speaker 4: Well, I do like the graphic never give up, never
give up our dignity, our faith, and our ability to
dream of a world rid of color lines and a
world that is better than the one that we left behind,
that that was left to us. And so there will
be trials, there will be tribulations, but we are reaching
for brotherhood and what that takes us for us to
be fearless and to stay awake and to seek after
the knowledge that is Martin Luther King. So that's what
I've got for you.
Speaker 1: Grateful for your presence on our show.
Speaker 3: John Lesiotis, thank you, Jesse, love you.
Speaker 1: You know you're always welcome and I love you too.
And there's nothing you can do about it. I got
that from Tavis. Thank you for being on our show.
Mister Diggles, thank you very much.
Speaker 2: It's good to see you.
Speaker 1: And there's nothing you can do about it either.
Speaker 6: We love you.
Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson. Been listening to Jackson doing your show
on Fat Meat Fridays with Gina Towns. More with Gina
Towns when we come forward on k Talk