1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: Seventh birthday period of Martin Luther King Junior, and we 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:06,240 are discussing today and through this period, certainly through the 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:12,119 holiday recognized by the federal government on Monday, the life, 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,880 the mission, the ministry of Martin Luther King Junior and 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,239 what its impact has and what does it say about 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,039 our time. We began our conversation at the beginning of 7 00:00:22,039 --> 00:00:26,039 the week with none other than Terry Horde Owens. We 8 00:00:26,559 --> 00:00:29,600 touched upon some of these issues on Tenacious Tuesdays with 9 00:00:29,719 --> 00:00:34,240 Barbara Arnwine and Liz King. Revent tard Urie joined us 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:39,960 along with a Tiba in conversation yesterday, on Wealthy Wednesdays 11 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,840 and on thought Provoking Thursdays. P L Da Silva as 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,880 well as his very special guest, along with Johnny Mack, 13 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,399 explored the global implications of what thirty nine year old 14 00:00:52,399 --> 00:00:56,000 Martin Luther King Junior, at the hour of his assassination 15 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:01,200 thirty nine years old, had to share with the world. 16 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,439 In this hour, we're going to take a hard look, 17 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,079 a deep dive into the Letter from a Birmingham Jail 18 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:12,040 because of its historical significance, its implications, some of its origins, 19 00:01:12,519 --> 00:01:15,920 and why doctor King's thinking was so prolific. I'm particularly 20 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,159 honored that our very special guest in this hour is 21 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,599 not none other than John Diggles. John Diggles is a 22 00:01:23,799 --> 00:01:26,359 healthcare professional, and over the course of our show, I 23 00:01:26,359 --> 00:01:30,000 will give you more and more about his biography, and 24 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:37,319 of course, activist thinker, political commentator, former executive in outdoor 25 00:01:37,359 --> 00:01:41,480 advertising John Leciotis will also be joining us in this hour. 26 00:01:41,599 --> 00:01:44,560 Both have been apprized of the subject matter and are 27 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,359 well aware of the fact that Martin Luther King Junior's 28 00:01:47,439 --> 00:01:50,400 letter from a Birmingham jail was a turning point in 29 00:01:50,519 --> 00:01:55,159 Christian theological practice. Gentlemen, welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson 30 00:01:55,239 --> 00:01:55,760 Junior Show. 31 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: Jesse, it's good to see you. 32 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:00,959 Speaker 3: Thanks Jesse. Thanks for now. 33 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,719 Speaker 1: This is fat Meet Fridays, So I don't want anyone 34 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:05,920 to think for one moment that we don't have an 35 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,120 additional contributor who is absolutely with us. She is the 36 00:02:08,159 --> 00:02:11,319 creator of the Jesse Jackson Junior Show, and I'm so 37 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,439 grateful to call her my very close, dear and best friend. 38 00:02:15,039 --> 00:02:18,080 The work that she does on this show is extraordinary. 39 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,560 In fact, there are other radio shows and radio stations 40 00:02:21,599 --> 00:02:25,919 around the country that watch our show. Very carefully and 41 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,319 they are following the leadership that Gina Towns has established 42 00:02:29,319 --> 00:02:32,360 for the Jesse Jackson Junior Show as really a breakthrough 43 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:37,759 moment in media communications. So much of what was once 44 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,759 AM and FM has now moved over to the app. 45 00:02:41,039 --> 00:02:44,400 That is, we are listened to in London, in Johannesburg, 46 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:49,240 South Africa, Frankfurt, Germany and other parts of the world. 47 00:02:49,759 --> 00:02:52,479 And that's in no small measure because the times are changing, 48 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,439 so is the technology. More people probably listen to our 49 00:02:55,439 --> 00:02:59,759 program on the app than they actually do on terrestrial radio. 50 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,840 It simply wouldn't be possible because I simply gave no 51 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:07,520 thought to it without the leadership the thinking of Gina Towns. 52 00:03:07,599 --> 00:03:09,439 She felt that we needed a platform that was brought 53 00:03:09,479 --> 00:03:12,800 enough to share ideas across a broad global spectrum. And 54 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,759 here we are. Gina, welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson 55 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:15,319 Junior Show. 56 00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 4: You know what, Jesse, I almost forgot. It was that 57 00:03:18,439 --> 00:03:22,360 good Friday to have John and John. 58 00:03:22,599 --> 00:03:24,599 Speaker 1: Hey, Gina, let me ask you this question, why the 59 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:25,840 letter from a Birmingham jail. 60 00:03:26,879 --> 00:03:29,199 Speaker 4: Well, before I go there, if you don't mind the 61 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,879 liberty because you said a lot right there, so thank you. 62 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,840 But we have to give homage and credit to the 63 00:03:35,919 --> 00:03:40,840 forty year veteran, that is, to have a smiley and 64 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:46,039 his tutelage and his mentorship in this venture, especially for me, 65 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:52,159 and I will not speak for you, but to allow 66 00:03:52,319 --> 00:03:56,120 us to grow on this platform and imitate what he 67 00:03:56,159 --> 00:03:58,919 does as best we can and try to sprout off. 68 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: I appreciate that if I get the Capitol Hill, there 69 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,120 are no guarantees this is an American election. If I 70 00:04:06,159 --> 00:04:08,039 get there, it is my intention to take the show 71 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,000 with us, and I plan to literally usher from Dominique 72 00:04:12,039 --> 00:04:15,960 di Prima through Tavis's show, through Nie Cordlai Corte. It's 73 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:21,519 many of my colleagues to frequent ABLA as a primary 74 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,519 vehicle by which we share what's taking place in Washington. 75 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,519 Pring daily that Democrats regain control. But if we don't 76 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,199 regain control, that is, the resistance movement does not gain 77 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,560 control of the Congress, certainly Democrats will have a lot 78 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,279 to say about the future of this nation, given the 79 00:04:38,319 --> 00:04:42,040 extraordinary times that we find ourselves in. And so this 80 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,240 show and this platform is a significant part of why 81 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:46,879 I wanted to do this in the first place. The 82 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,439 idea of going to Congress, you know, with a radio show, 83 00:04:51,079 --> 00:04:54,120 plugging people directly into their members of Congress and senators 84 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,279 and discussing in real time what the hell is going 85 00:04:56,319 --> 00:04:59,160 on in this country. I think that matters to this. 86 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 2: That is Jesse, and you're really good at it. The 87 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,360 fact that you can bring voices and give a platform 88 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,680 and have an honest, open discussion with your audience nationally, 89 00:05:10,079 --> 00:05:12,360 you're really really good at it. We're grateful for you. 90 00:05:12,759 --> 00:05:13,759 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Gena. 91 00:05:14,399 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 4: So on the Birmingham hand, the letter from Birmingham Jail 92 00:05:17,639 --> 00:05:20,639 that was John lesiotis when we began to talk about 93 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,399 Martin Luther King, and that I wanted to continue on 94 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,279 from yesterday in the celebration. I think there's a lot 95 00:05:29,319 --> 00:05:31,439 of reflection that we need to do. I think there 96 00:05:31,439 --> 00:05:33,680 should be a lot of reading going on over the 97 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:39,079 weekend of the various materials that are available to us 98 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,639 to really glean from Martin Luther King's heart and his 99 00:05:43,879 --> 00:05:48,360 mind for justice. And so John suggested that he wanted 100 00:05:48,399 --> 00:05:50,519 to look at the letter from Birmingham Jail, and so 101 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,000 in the next segment, I have a clip for us 102 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,040 to do a little listening and then we'll do a 103 00:05:56,079 --> 00:05:57,560 little discussion. 104 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: Knowing that our break is coming up soon, John, I 105 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,519 want thank you for bringing our attention once again to 106 00:06:04,639 --> 00:06:07,720 the matters of Birmingham. Looking forward to that discussion when 107 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,879 we call KBLA Talk fifteen eighty and before we begin 108 00:06:12,959 --> 00:06:15,160 with Gina's clip in the next segment, I'm going to 109 00:06:15,319 --> 00:06:18,759 probe mister Lesciotis is thinking why the letter from a 110 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,639 Birmingham jail? Why did that stand out for him? Then? 111 00:06:22,079 --> 00:06:25,680 Why should we be reflective upon it now? And what 112 00:06:25,759 --> 00:06:28,519 are some of its consequences. Gina will then come back 113 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,480 forward with a clip of doctor King regarding the letter 114 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,519 from a Birmingham jail, and then we will begin a 115 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,639 robust conversation. I'm Jesse Jackson, Jr. This is the ninety 116 00:06:37,639 --> 00:06:40,759 seventh birthday of Martin Luther King Junior, born on January fifth, 117 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,000 a holiday period celebrated on the third Monday of the 118 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,560 month of January by the by virtue of Congress and 119 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,600 the signature of the President of the United States. I'm 120 00:06:49,639 --> 00:06:51,519 Jesse Jackson, Gi Moore on k Late Talk fifteen eighty. 121 00:06:51,519 --> 00:06:57,000 When we come forward, Gatown Junior show a regular career 122 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:03,160 John Leciotis, Rod, Let's talk about it. Series Political activists, analysts, 123 00:07:03,199 --> 00:07:05,519 and every second Tuesday of the month guest on the 124 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,800 Jesse Jackson Junior Show series Let's Talk About It. John 125 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,240 Leciotis puts real talk in the middle of the floor 126 00:07:11,279 --> 00:07:14,959 about the ways Republicans view democrats and vice versa, the 127 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,480 ways democrats view Republicans in a dialogue filled with messaging 128 00:07:19,639 --> 00:07:24,360 and messenger troops. John Lasiotis, welcome forward to the program. 129 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,639 I'll give the appropriate introduction of John Diggles in just 130 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,720 a moment, but why don't we get started, John. 131 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:30,639 Speaker 3: Thank you, Jesse. 132 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:33,439 Speaker 1: It's an honor to have you John. 133 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 3: The letters are a. 134 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,439 Speaker 5: Great interest in me, Jessic because I think they really 135 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,720 speak to the times what's going on in America right now. 136 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,279 And what first drew me to the letters is when 137 00:07:45,319 --> 00:07:48,560 I found out that he wrote those letters to a 138 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,759 number of white religious leaders in America that we're urging 139 00:07:52,839 --> 00:07:56,800 King to slow down and to wait for the courts 140 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:57,600 to take action. 141 00:07:59,399 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 3: And King wrote a rather. 142 00:08:02,319 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 5: Lengthy letter explaining that he had been waiting a long 143 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,000 time and the courts hadn't acted, and more importantly, that 144 00:08:09,439 --> 00:08:15,959 people have a moral responsibility to break unjust laws, and 145 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,920 he was tired of waiting for quite frankly, the moderate 146 00:08:21,959 --> 00:08:24,439 white to step up and to do something. He had 147 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,920 known that he wasn't going to get the support of 148 00:08:26,639 --> 00:08:30,199 the right wing in the Kupleux Klan. He knew he 149 00:08:30,279 --> 00:08:32,919 had the support of the white liberals, but it was 150 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,919 the white moderate that was really standing in the way 151 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:39,440 of progress. And I look at what's happening across America 152 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,279 right now and I kind of see something similar where 153 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,600 we've got the moderates that are kind of standing off 154 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:50,559 to the side just watching what's going on. Certainly for 155 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,879 the last election, they stood on the sidelines. You know, 156 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,320 thirty percent of America at least didn't come out to vote. 157 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,759 And so it kind of resonates with me the letters 158 00:08:58,799 --> 00:09:01,279 because it speaks to what's happening today. 159 00:09:01,799 --> 00:09:04,919 Speaker 1: John Diggles is and serves as CEO and founder of 160 00:09:05,039 --> 00:09:10,679 Ascent Strategy, providing services and digital transformation, corporate storytelling, employer 161 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:15,240 brand strategy, marketing of clinical research, and ROI measurement. The 162 00:09:15,279 --> 00:09:21,080 agency's IP uses proprietary communications algorithms combining online community insights 163 00:09:21,399 --> 00:09:25,679 with medical professional perspectives, patient observations, and market data to 164 00:09:25,799 --> 00:09:31,480 promote adoption of telemedicine, remote patient monitoring and healthcare, artificial intelligence, 165 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,639 among other offerings. John, welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson 166 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:35,240 Junior Show. 167 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 2: Thank you, Jesse. It's good to be with you. 168 00:09:37,279 --> 00:09:39,039 Speaker 3: It's good to be with you. For fat Meat Friday. 169 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: This is awesome, Hey, John. An insightful observation by John 170 00:09:44,919 --> 00:09:48,600 lesiotis about the white moderate John. 171 00:09:49,039 --> 00:09:51,279 Speaker 2: It always stood out to me the letter from Birmingham 172 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,879 Jail about the clarity that Reverend King had sitting in there, 173 00:09:54,879 --> 00:09:58,519 and think in that setting, in that setting, he was 174 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,639 able to put these words for it, and that was 175 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,120 his thoughts about how he needed to engage the country. 176 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,399 I think John hit it right on the head. When 177 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:11,200 politics becomes so hot and sides dig in, you have 178 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,399 your far left, far left, far right sides dig in, 179 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,279 so much of the middle scenes to tune out sometimes, 180 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,559 and I think that was Reverend Kings is that the 181 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,919 struggle has to be one you have to help us 182 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,960 get this. We need your voice, we need your attention 183 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:27,919 to this. And I feel that way about a lot 184 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,960 of things, including healthcare and health inequity. You know, Reverend 185 00:10:32,039 --> 00:10:34,919 King said something that also changed my life. He said 186 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,799 that injustice in healthcare is one of the most severe 187 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,399 forms of inequality. It's why I started this company and 188 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,240 why we do what we do because the only way 189 00:10:45,519 --> 00:10:49,480 to bridge to address those inequities is to think differently, 190 00:10:49,759 --> 00:10:51,759 be involved, and look to new solutions. 191 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,519 Speaker 1: Gina, you're a Princeton Theological Seminary graduate. Congratulations on recently 192 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,039 receiving your Masters of Arts in Theology. 193 00:10:59,399 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 4: Genie. 194 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: About the heavyweights, uh to the show today with a 195 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,480 very very heavy topic, the letter from a Birmingham jail. 196 00:11:06,879 --> 00:11:08,919 Speaker 4: Well, you know, and I want to go to the clip, 197 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,320 but I also want to tell our listeners who are 198 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,840 not able to see us that John and John are 199 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,080 white and so. 200 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: I love. 201 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,879 Speaker 4: Conversation because conversations we need to be having across the 202 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:25,919 aisles at church. 203 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 2: I thought they were born. 204 00:11:29,399 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: Across Gina. These are two wild and crazy guys that 205 00:11:33,159 --> 00:11:35,480 I thought were born black guys. Pour down deep Now. 206 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 4: I love this because you know, our Monday host in 207 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,840 the first hour, mister Krim and mister Class always talks 208 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,279 about the fact that we cannot ignore that there are 209 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,799 people who are open to all subject matters, and it 210 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:56,360 takes all of us, It takes the entire village, the 211 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,399 people down the street and around the corner to raise 212 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,120 this child called America. And so with that, Jesse, if 213 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:04,879 you're okay, let's go ahead and let's go. 214 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: To the clip. 215 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 6: Dear fellow clergyman, While confined here in the Birmingham City Jail, 216 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,639 I came across your recent statement calling my present activities 217 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:24,960 unwise and untimely. Seldom do I pause to answer criticism 218 00:12:25,039 --> 00:12:29,440 of my work and ideas. If I sought to answer 219 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,799 all the criticisms that cross my desk, my secretaries would 220 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,200 have little time for anything other than such correspondence in 221 00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:40,000 the course of the day, and I would have no 222 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:45,000 time for constructive work. But since I feel that you 223 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,320 are men of genuine goodwill and that your criticisms are 224 00:12:48,919 --> 00:12:53,480 sincerely set forth, I want to try to answer your 225 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:58,399 statement in what I hope will be patient and reasonable terms. 226 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,919 I think I should indicate why I am here in Birmingham, 227 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,919 since you have been influenced by the view which argues 228 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:11,639 against outsiders coming in. I have the honor of serving 229 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:17,120 as president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, an organization 230 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:22,879 operating in every Southern state with headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia. 231 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,200 We have some eighty five affiliated organizations across the South, 232 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,120 and one of them is the Alabama Christian Movement for 233 00:13:32,279 --> 00:13:40,120 Human Rights. Frequently we share staff, educational and financial resources 234 00:13:40,159 --> 00:13:44,240 with our affiliates. Several months ago, the affiliates here in 235 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,840 Birmingham asked us to be on call to engage in 236 00:13:48,919 --> 00:13:56,080 a nonviolent direct action program if such were deemed necessary. 237 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,799 We readily consented, and when the hour came, we lived 238 00:14:00,879 --> 00:14:06,279 up to our promise. So I, along with several members 239 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,919 of my staff, am here because I was invited here. 240 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,759 I am here because I have organizational ties here. But 241 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:21,159 more basically, I am in Birmingham because injustice is here. 242 00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:25,519 Just as the prophets of the eighth century BC left 243 00:14:25,559 --> 00:14:29,399 their villages and carried there thus saith the Lord far 244 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,399 beyond the boundaries of their hometowns. And just as the 245 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:38,799 apostle Paul left his village of Tarsus and carried the 246 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,919 gospel of Jesus Christ to the far corners of the 247 00:14:41,919 --> 00:14:46,840 great go Roman world, so am I compelled to carry 248 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:53,559 the gospel of freedom beyond my own hometown. Like Paul, 249 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:59,559 I must constantly respond to the Macedonian call for aid. Moreover, 250 00:15:00,519 --> 00:15:05,360 I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states. 251 00:15:06,159 --> 00:15:09,720 I cannot sit idly by in Atlanta and not be 252 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:14,279 concerned about what happens in Birmingham. In justice anywhere is 253 00:15:14,279 --> 00:15:19,519 a threat to justice everywhere. We are called in an inescapable. 254 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Jesse Jackson Junior show. That was 255 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:29,480 Senator Rafael Warnock, Reverend Senator Rafael Warnock, the pastor and 256 00:15:29,759 --> 00:15:32,039 to a significant degree in terms of the ministry of 257 00:15:32,039 --> 00:15:35,759 Martin Luther King Junior, the pastor of the Ebenezer Baptist 258 00:15:35,879 --> 00:15:38,720 Church who happens to serve in the United States Senate 259 00:15:38,759 --> 00:15:42,399 from Georgia, a church that Martin Luther King Junior was 260 00:15:43,039 --> 00:15:47,120 pastor of, and so the historical significance of that pastor 261 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,720 being able to read that speech on the floor of 262 00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:54,559 the United States Senate is as remarkable as the idea 263 00:15:54,639 --> 00:15:58,519 of writing the speech in the first place. Gina, I 264 00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:01,759 want to allow you and opportunity to engage with mister 265 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,799 Lessiotis and mister Diggles on the target of this speech, 266 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:11,360 white evangelical clergymen who are questioning the theological tradition of 267 00:16:11,399 --> 00:16:13,000 doctor King and the freedom movement. 268 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,039 Speaker 4: Well, thanks, Jesse, I mean it was pretty self explanatory, 269 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:23,440 and you're right Reverend Warnock reading that being a member 270 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,399 of the clergy and the members of the Senate, Reverend 271 00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:34,679 Doctor cong Senator Raphael Warnock addressing the question in that 272 00:16:34,879 --> 00:16:40,519 part of the letter where people are questioning him and 273 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,480 trying to keep us in boxes and keeping civil rights 274 00:16:44,519 --> 00:16:49,399 and injustice in a certain place, and retaining things that 275 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:57,399 quote unquote belong in this political box or this biblical box, 276 00:16:57,679 --> 00:17:02,120 if you will. In this idea of church and state 277 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:07,319 being separate except for our morality and our level of 278 00:17:07,559 --> 00:17:12,559 justice towards one another. Uh is inextricably tied to. 279 00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: The law. 280 00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 4: So when you think about that, and you and you 281 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:20,319 hear that, and I know that both of you are 282 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:25,519 engaging with conversations on the golf court. Well we're not 283 00:17:25,559 --> 00:17:27,759 golfing right now, but I know, John, that just comes 284 00:17:27,759 --> 00:17:30,200 to mind all the time. With John engaging in these 285 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:35,839 conversations with your friends who likely don't listen to the 286 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:40,839 Jesse Jackson Junior Show, who may not be familiar with 287 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,119 or any of King's speeches for that matter. You know, 288 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,920 how do you relate the idea that King was addressing 289 00:17:51,079 --> 00:17:54,960 in that letter and the responsibility that we have. 290 00:17:58,599 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 5: Well that's a tough one because most of the times 291 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,960 when you bring up you know, because another thing I 292 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,440 loved about the letters from Birmingham Jails is the quote 293 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,720 you ended the tape with an injustice anywhere is a 294 00:18:10,759 --> 00:18:16,920 threat to justice everywhere. I think that's really pertinent now, 295 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:18,680 and I bring it up to my friends because a 296 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,680 couple of them happen to be Jewish to live up 297 00:18:20,839 --> 00:18:24,240 here in the North Shore, and you know, we talked 298 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,079 a little bit about what's going on with Gaza, and 299 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,200 I explained to them that there's some bit of a 300 00:18:29,279 --> 00:18:32,400 relationship on us turning our blind eye to what's going 301 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,200 on in Gaza and what's happening in our country, you know, 302 00:18:36,279 --> 00:18:39,200 because that's an injustice over there, and we should be 303 00:18:39,279 --> 00:18:41,599 almost as concerned, if not more concerned about it because 304 00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:44,039 of the genocide there, than we are what's going on 305 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,759 at home. But yet we kind of detach ourselves from it, 306 00:18:46,799 --> 00:18:49,200 and we pretend because most of us live in a 307 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:54,960 pretty comfortable environment. We're not threatened with job and security necessarily, 308 00:18:55,039 --> 00:18:58,480 or food and security. Our neighborhoods are relatively safe. So 309 00:18:58,559 --> 00:19:01,480 in our little world, you know, despite what's going on 310 00:19:01,559 --> 00:19:04,759 around us, things aren't all that awful. So I think 311 00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:08,880 a lot of people just getting that comfort zone and 312 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,200 turn to blind and I of what's going on around him. 313 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: John, But you are you are seminary trained. You you 314 00:19:17,599 --> 00:19:23,079 understand directly the target audience. Of course John Lecialdas does 315 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,359 as well. But you understand like John does, the target 316 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:31,480 audience to which Doctor King was addressing. Uh. This this 317 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,240 this profound moral treatise your thoughts. 318 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 2: John, And that's the that is the power. The first 319 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,640 time I read the letter, I understood where he was 320 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,160 coming from. You almost see doctor King. I mean, I'm 321 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,160 in communications right. You have to write to your audience. 322 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,920 He's masterful at it. And I think, you know, one 323 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,319 of my favorite things about the way to celebrate his 324 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,440 day and this time of year is to take parts, 325 00:19:57,559 --> 00:19:59,720 quotes and parts of that letter and put him on 326 00:19:59,759 --> 00:20:03,359 social media to remind you see the power of what 327 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,359 he wrote and who he was writing to. He knew 328 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,680 how to get his message across. One of the great 329 00:20:08,759 --> 00:20:12,720 communicators of our time, of the of the twentieth century. 330 00:20:12,839 --> 00:20:15,920 He set an example for us how to invite people in. 331 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,200 And by the way, speaking about how to invite people in, 332 00:20:18,279 --> 00:20:20,519 you know, all my friends are listening because I texted 333 00:20:20,519 --> 00:20:22,839 them the whole link to this there listens. 334 00:20:24,559 --> 00:20:26,799 Speaker 4: Well by the way. 335 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,759 Speaker 1: We should all do that. Hey, John, let me can 336 00:20:28,759 --> 00:20:28,960 I can? 337 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 2: I can? 338 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: I can I pivot? I know we don't have about 339 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,480 a minute and thirty seconds before we come forward. But 340 00:20:33,839 --> 00:20:38,720 given that John Lesiotis was in the advertising business and 341 00:20:38,759 --> 00:20:42,200 he understands targeting and audience, and given that you're in 342 00:20:42,279 --> 00:20:45,599 the algorithmic business for healthcare and you understand the significance 343 00:20:45,599 --> 00:20:49,920 of targeting and audience, doctor King, without all the technology 344 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,240 that we have today, was deliberately targeting an audience. Do 345 00:20:53,319 --> 00:21:00,400 you know anybody under age forty today who's targeting the 346 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,480 right wing evangelical community with the kind of moral clarity 347 00:21:04,519 --> 00:21:09,759 that Martin Luther King Junior brought forward in the Birmingham letter. 348 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:18,559 Speaker 3: I don't. I mean I didn't follow him very closely. 349 00:21:18,599 --> 00:21:22,279 Speaker 5: But wasn't Charlie Kirk kind of a religious didn't he 350 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,200 talk about religion and Christianity? 351 00:21:25,559 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: Well he should, he should while alive, should have been targeted, 352 00:21:28,079 --> 00:21:31,200 in my opinion. But I'm not aware of anyone who 353 00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:34,759 is making a moral appeal to them about the injustice 354 00:21:34,759 --> 00:21:38,119 that's taking place in our land quite like doctor King 355 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,759 did at age under age thirty nine when he wrote 356 00:21:40,759 --> 00:21:43,400 this letter from a Birmingham jail. He's targeting this audience. 357 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,200 John Digles, No, he is. 358 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 2: And he's as you said, he didn't have the technology. 359 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,480 I think a new generation of influencers is doing this. 360 00:21:51,319 --> 00:21:54,519 The words of doctor King could get more, a lot 361 00:21:54,559 --> 00:21:57,000 more into that conversation, right, because he did not have 362 00:21:57,039 --> 00:21:59,720 the technology. But I think the power of his letter 363 00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:03,079 and what makes it so timeless again is that setting 364 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,119 and the sense of invitation urgency that he pulled through 365 00:22:07,519 --> 00:22:10,880 and so much of that what got people involved. 366 00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson. You're listening to Jessey Jackson Junior Show 367 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,799 on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. It's Fat Need Friday's More 368 00:22:15,839 --> 00:22:18,160 with John Diggles, Gina Towns and John Lets the other Woman. 369 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:18,839 Speaker 3: We come form Yes. 370 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: Jackson Junior Show on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. We are commemorating, celebrating, thinking, 371 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,480 and reflecting on the ninety seventh birthday of Martin Luther 372 00:22:28,599 --> 00:22:31,599 King Junior. That's the period from January fifteenth to the 373 00:22:31,759 --> 00:22:36,519 third Monday in the month celebrate celebrated as a federal holiday. 374 00:22:36,519 --> 00:22:39,759 Are very special guests on Fat Meat Fridays. Our regular 375 00:22:39,799 --> 00:22:42,039 contributor every Friday is none other than the creator of 376 00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:45,160 the Jesse Jackson Junior Show, Gina Towns. Gina, Welcome forward 377 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:45,559 to the show. 378 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,799 Speaker 4: Hi Jesse Jackson Junior and Happy Friday. Thank god. It 379 00:22:49,839 --> 00:22:52,960 is a lot going on in the midst of our 380 00:22:53,039 --> 00:22:55,839 King celebration yes week this week, and I can take 381 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,640 them if you don't mind, Can I take a moment? 382 00:22:57,799 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: I was going to introduce our two guests again. You 383 00:22:59,440 --> 00:22:59,960 can do it again. 384 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 4: I want to just give a shout out to the 385 00:23:02,759 --> 00:23:05,519 members for I did not forget but the members of 386 00:23:05,839 --> 00:23:10,640 Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority incorporated those of us from Delta 387 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,960 Sigma Theta wish you a happy Founder's Day. And I 388 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,640 also didn't want to do it on the King Holiday, 389 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,440 so let me just make that right. 390 00:23:19,519 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, all right, very special guest in this hour, 391 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,079 our John Lescioti. John Leaciotis is a former account exec 392 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:31,359 and officer of outdoor advertising and media targeting and campaign targeting, 393 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:37,519 but also nonprofit and for profit targeting of individuals and 394 00:23:37,599 --> 00:23:42,279 John Diggles is one of the relations leading public relations 395 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:47,880 professionals who's using artificial intelligence and logarithms for targeting messages 396 00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:50,920 and what we have here is a message from Martin 397 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,200 Luther King Junior and the letter from a Birmingham jail 398 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,960 targeting evangelicals and those who are questioning why he's in 399 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:03,359 Birmingham in the first place. And I'm going to this 400 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:09,000 conversation has been largely inspired by John Lesiotis, and I'd 401 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,880 like John to further dive deeper into why do you 402 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,079 think doctor King wanted to target this group that was 403 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,519 criticizing him. I can only imagine on the outside, by 404 00:24:20,519 --> 00:24:23,000 the way Gina, they were saying, I'm glad he's in jail, 405 00:24:23,839 --> 00:24:27,000 I'm glad there, and he took the opportunity while in 406 00:24:27,079 --> 00:24:29,160 jail to say I really should not be here, but 407 00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:32,680 like Ball, if I have to suffer through this to 408 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:33,759 get your attention, I will. 409 00:24:34,079 --> 00:24:38,279 Speaker 5: John leilas well, I think he from what I understand, 410 00:24:38,319 --> 00:24:43,680 he picked Birmingham because the Birmingham students from an African 411 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,720 American college Downer had organized at Boycott earlier and had 412 00:24:47,759 --> 00:24:51,240 been successful. It was a department store, and the department 413 00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:53,000 store lost a bunch of business, so I think he 414 00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:57,559 saw an opportunity, a soft spot perhaps in Birmingham to 415 00:24:57,559 --> 00:25:01,680 make his point. The reason I think he get it 416 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,240 with regards to the and I think it was maybe 417 00:25:04,279 --> 00:25:06,240 seven or eight ministers and a couple of rabbis in 418 00:25:06,279 --> 00:25:10,240 there as well. It was multi denominational as in a way. 419 00:25:10,279 --> 00:25:12,839 I think you wanted to break the patriarchy that was 420 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,039 you know, that's part of religion. I mean it's male 421 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,880 dominated and there's a pecking order in it, and I 422 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,640 think he saw that he had to kind of break 423 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,240 through that to convince these people that they had to 424 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,559 come along for the ride, that they couldn't wait any longer. 425 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,039 Speaker 1: You know, John, Before bring John Diggles this, let me 426 00:25:29,079 --> 00:25:33,960 ask you one other follow up question. He is he 427 00:25:34,079 --> 00:25:36,319 is careful in the language that he chooses in this 428 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,119 letter always, and it's clear to me that he must 429 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,000 have understood the historical significance of it, that we would 430 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:48,079 be discussing it almost fifty years later. So he gave 431 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:53,200 a considerable thought to the conversation with our reflection, our 432 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,799 present reflection upon what he did then, so that we 433 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,160 might arrive at a conclusion today. You're a meeting a 434 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:06,759 targeting expert specialist, John, what is doctor King telling us 435 00:26:06,799 --> 00:26:11,640 today from the letter from a Birmingham champl Well. 436 00:26:11,559 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 5: I think there's so many messages in it, but I 437 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,319 think most importantly it's it's a call to action. It's 438 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:23,680 it's a call for those moderates to finally grow a spine, 439 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,000 for lack of better definition, and to take and to 440 00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:30,720 get off the sidelines and do something. And it's not 441 00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:34,160 everyone doing the same thing, but it's everyone doing something. 442 00:26:34,519 --> 00:26:37,559 And I think that's what he's urging the moderates to do. 443 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:43,079 Speaker 1: John, Let's jotiss. I'm sorry, John Diggles, I'm sorry. 444 00:26:43,759 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 2: John, hit it just right. And one of my look 445 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,799 one of the I've I've spent my career in communications. 446 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,680 I love the power of language. 447 00:26:51,039 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 4: Right. 448 00:26:51,279 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 2: One of my favorite things that doctor King does in 449 00:26:53,759 --> 00:26:56,960 the letter is that he takes words and labels that 450 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,200 were placed on him and on the civil rights movement 451 00:26:59,559 --> 00:27:03,279 and he uses them to his advantage. Doctor King was 452 00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:06,799 seen as an extremist and so many pastors could not 453 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,640 be involved, and he reminded them that Jesus Christ was 454 00:27:10,799 --> 00:27:14,640 also viewed as an extremist, and that famous line of 455 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,519 the letter that comes forth and he says, so, then 456 00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:19,880 I ask you, shall we be an extremist for hate? 457 00:27:20,279 --> 00:27:22,119 Or shall we be an extremist for love? 458 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:22,839 Speaker 1: Well? 459 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,799 Speaker 2: He gave them that power, that permission for pastors to 460 00:27:26,799 --> 00:27:30,920 say to their congregations, to say, just as Christ had 461 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,599 to stand and fight for love and for faith to 462 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:39,279 start his church. So Reverend King also is this extremist 463 00:27:39,319 --> 00:27:42,480 for love to change us and invite us into the movement. 464 00:27:42,759 --> 00:27:44,680 It's a masterful use of language. 465 00:27:45,319 --> 00:27:48,599 Speaker 1: That permission, Gina, that permission. 466 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 4: To John decided to take a moment. I just gotta 467 00:27:55,559 --> 00:28:00,759 tell you, the agency transforms into the chart. I'm not 468 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,240 mad at it, because you know, if you think about it, 469 00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:06,440 the things that we do in our lives. You know, 470 00:28:07,319 --> 00:28:09,960 sometimes we get really bogged down by a job. But 471 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,160 if you are, if you have a career and you're 472 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,559 doing something you love, it really does become ministry. And 473 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,920 so the things that John just said are applicable across 474 00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:21,319 the board. But what I you know, and thank you 475 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,240 for that, John, You're gonna either pick a side, I 476 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,559 think is what he was getting at. And then you know, 477 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,880 from the very beginning he was like, usually I don't 478 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,559 deal with the criticism that comes. But because this is 479 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,519 the subject matter that we're talking about, it is love 480 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,799 versus Hayden, we all claim to be on the same 481 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,279 page on that he's also dealing with the hypocrisy, you know. 482 00:28:41,359 --> 00:28:45,640 And so we are at a place where our hypocrisy, 483 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,680 while it has been in the back ground a little bit, 484 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,480 because we've made some strides. I mean, that's how we're viewed, 485 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,079 you know, around the world to some extent in some 486 00:28:56,119 --> 00:29:00,279 of our dealings and abroad. But then when it comes 487 00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:03,759 to how people see the things that go on at home, 488 00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:06,640 they see that hypocrisy. And I love that. Martin Luther 489 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,200 King was like, I'm going to sit here, right here 490 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,960 in this jail cell, and I am going to deal 491 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,799 with the issue of hypocrisy on what we say we believe. 492 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,519 And there was no better place. 493 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:18,599 Speaker 1: For me. 494 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 4: For it to have been done. Because if you look 495 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,960 at any anybody who got used throughout the Scripture, they 496 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,519 spend some time in jail or a solitude or something. 497 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,839 He left them with their thoughts, that's for sure. 498 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: Mister diggles Orton. So let's see what is your response. 499 00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:41,119 Speaker 5: Well, she mentioned a key word to hypocrisy, and I 500 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,279 would make the case that the country was kind of 501 00:29:44,279 --> 00:29:45,240 built on hypocrisy. 502 00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 3: Gina Jesse. We got a constitution that states that. 503 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 5: All men are created equals, but yet half the men 504 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,920 that signed that Constitution went home to slaves. 505 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,519 Speaker 3: So today we fight wars to bring peace. 506 00:30:00,119 --> 00:30:02,319 Speaker 5: A lot of and a lot of people that are 507 00:30:02,359 --> 00:30:04,799 on the right wing right now claim to be Christians. 508 00:30:06,079 --> 00:30:09,200 So I think the idea of hypocrisy is kind of 509 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,039 a common thread that's run through the history of this country. 510 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,359 Speaker 1: So let's see, mister Diggles. 511 00:30:16,759 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 2: It will always stand out for me. The themes of 512 00:30:19,039 --> 00:30:22,039 the letters here is that sense of invitation and how 513 00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:25,119 he taught pastors who read that and immersed his words 514 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,319 to say, Okay, if this is how your congregation sees this, 515 00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:31,480 I'll work with the labels they have. I want you 516 00:30:31,559 --> 00:30:34,359 to redefine it. And that's what he did and is 517 00:30:34,519 --> 00:30:38,279 his letter challenged them, but it also did so as 518 00:30:38,319 --> 00:30:41,960 an invitation and with love, and that that was the 519 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,839 way I think he really changed the thinking. That's why 520 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,359 that letter is so timeless. That's why so many of 521 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,279 us should spend this week and posting our favorite parts 522 00:30:50,279 --> 00:30:52,920 of it on social We have to remind people of 523 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,119 the power of those words. 524 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson Junior listening to the Jesse Jackson Junior 525 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,920 Show on KBLA Talk fifteen to eighty. This is that 526 00:30:59,039 --> 00:31:01,720 meet Fridays with Gina Towns, our very special guest mister 527 00:31:01,759 --> 00:31:04,319 John Diggles and mister John leasiotis more when we come 528 00:31:04,359 --> 00:31:08,000 forward on KBLA Talk fifteen eight Jackson Junior were bo 529 00:31:08,079 --> 00:31:11,240 from Missy Jackson Junior Show on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. 530 00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:13,279 I must share with you before as we enter this 531 00:31:13,359 --> 00:31:16,599 last segment of our show per hour, that my mother 532 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,799 received an amazing award from the City of Chicago today, 533 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,039 presented to her by Brandon Johnson and by the City 534 00:31:23,079 --> 00:31:27,440 of Chicago for her more than five six decades of 535 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,839 activism and work here in the city, in the mission, 536 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,000 and around the country. I'm particularly proud of that on 537 00:31:33,119 --> 00:31:39,440 this Elis Martin Luther King Junior ninety seventh birthday. I 538 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,480 also want to share that Vice President Kamala Harris was 539 00:31:43,519 --> 00:31:48,200 the guest speaker of that at that particular event, and 540 00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:51,480 out of the kindness of her heart, at the end 541 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:56,359 of the event, she came to my mother's apartment and 542 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,880 spent a good hour, maybe an hour and a half 543 00:31:59,079 --> 00:32:02,759 with my father, the Reverend Jesse Jackson. These pictures and 544 00:32:02,839 --> 00:32:06,440 these images all belong to my mother as she reflects 545 00:32:06,519 --> 00:32:09,279 upon the significance of my father's contribution and to the 546 00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:11,279 extent that my father can talk, he did speak with 547 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,680 Kamala Harris today. So there's your little breaking news. But 548 00:32:15,839 --> 00:32:19,000 Reverend Jackson in the last week has had Stevie Wonder 549 00:32:19,079 --> 00:32:23,359 come and visit, Kamala Harris come and visit. In the 550 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,599 last month and a half, including Bill Clinton and Hillary 551 00:32:26,599 --> 00:32:30,079 Clinton came and visited, and our family is extremely grateful. 552 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,000 I have a question that I want to ask Gina 553 00:32:32,039 --> 00:32:34,960 of John Lesiotis and John Diggles, But let me start 554 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,799 with John Diggles. If Doctor King were alive today, what 555 00:32:39,839 --> 00:32:41,519 would you ask him? 556 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 2: John Diggles, I would ask him about the hardest part 557 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,039 of his journey and what he did or what he 558 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,720 thought that got him through that. And I would just 559 00:32:56,839 --> 00:32:59,039 like to sit with that because I do think that 560 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,720 I'd be surprised by that answer about where the hardest 561 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,759 part was and what he did to get through it. 562 00:33:05,799 --> 00:33:08,759 I would ask him about his doubts about his life's 563 00:33:08,839 --> 00:33:10,079 mission and what. 564 00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: He did to get through those. 565 00:33:13,079 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 2: And I would ask him about any regrets that he 566 00:33:18,759 --> 00:33:22,039 had about certain things about how he things he might 567 00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:25,079 have learned about how to say something or deliver something 568 00:33:25,079 --> 00:33:29,200 that he might have gone back and changed again. To 569 00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:34,119 have that conversation would be a blessing. And Jesse, congratulations 570 00:33:34,119 --> 00:33:36,680 to your mom. Are ongoing prayers for your father a 571 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:37,720 special day for your. 572 00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: Family, John, I appreciate that. You know. When I think 573 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,680 about doctor King, I feel like I am speaking to 574 00:33:42,759 --> 00:33:48,039 a four hundred year old sage. But he was assassinated 575 00:33:48,039 --> 00:33:49,680 at age thirty nine. I want to puss the same 576 00:33:49,759 --> 00:33:52,960 question to John, to John Lecio, his John, what would 577 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,880 you ask Doctor King today? 578 00:33:55,319 --> 00:33:58,119 Speaker 3: Well, I would ask him, I guess in his dark 579 00:33:58,160 --> 00:33:58,720 as hours. 580 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 5: Other than the Bible, the people that he got inspiration 581 00:34:01,519 --> 00:34:06,319 from are the writers that he read uh to get 582 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,079 inspiration to get through some of the tough times, especially 583 00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:09,599 in jail. 584 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:10,519 Speaker 1: Uh. 585 00:34:11,119 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 3: There had to have been someone that that that he 586 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,719 really uh looked up to. 587 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: Gina just put Howard Thurman on you. 588 00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 3: There you go. 589 00:34:23,039 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 4: He had some meditations through the heart moment. 590 00:34:25,079 --> 00:34:25,519 Speaker 3: I believe. 591 00:34:26,039 --> 00:34:28,559 Speaker 1: I believe today he'd be reading the work of Walter Flucker. 592 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,119 I think reading the work of Oberon Hendricks. I think 593 00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:36,239 he'd been following Reverend Jackson, Reverend Sharpton. I think he'd 594 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,519 be following obviously Andy Young and Reverend Barbara. I'm sorry, John, 595 00:34:40,559 --> 00:34:41,199 I need me to cut you off. 596 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,119 Speaker 3: Quid no, no, I agree with it. 597 00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 5: And I remember you mentioned mister Thurman before, so uh, 598 00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:49,400 I know he was a great inspiration for for doctor King. 599 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,000 But I also did want to follow up with John Dingles. 600 00:34:52,519 --> 00:34:55,360 Diggles and mentioned to you about your mother's award and 601 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,159 that's terrific for her and uh, hopefully Donald Trump will 602 00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:00,719 find out about the and ask. 603 00:35:05,199 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 4: Ask him to. 604 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 2: Award the Jack. 605 00:35:11,199 --> 00:35:11,519 Speaker 1: Wow. 606 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 4: Man, you know what I had almost just a whole 607 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,639 moment of slip off the show, sliding down the side 608 00:35:21,679 --> 00:35:26,159 of the right there. Okay, So anyway, so John Diggles 609 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,320 that I thought your question was fascinating. And here's why. 610 00:35:31,679 --> 00:35:39,800 To know what King might have felt as fear or concerned, 611 00:35:41,039 --> 00:35:43,880 I think makes him relatable to where we are right now. 612 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,079 And because the issue of fear and the power that 613 00:35:48,159 --> 00:35:51,840 fear can have. You know, if he said, you know what, yeah, 614 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,800 I was scared sometimes, you know, being in the in 615 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:01,239 the burming. Let me say it again, Birmingham jail. You 616 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,559 know you might not make it out if not for 617 00:36:04,599 --> 00:36:09,519 the President calling uh and and for you know, the 618 00:36:09,199 --> 00:36:12,199 the the pressure that it was to make sure that 619 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,280 you were safe in the jail. There were plenty of 620 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,119 people who did not make it out of some of 621 00:36:17,159 --> 00:36:20,559 the circumstances that they made. And even now with what 622 00:36:20,599 --> 00:36:24,719 we see going on in Minneapolis in a heightened level 623 00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:30,599 of interaction between ice, isn't there an amazing silence? 624 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: Isn't there an amazing silence? The very silent and betrayal 625 00:36:33,519 --> 00:36:36,199 that doctor King is talking about a Birmingham? Aren't we 626 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,920 seeing that right now? By the I know Father Flagger's 627 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,440 raising hell. I know certain ministers are raising hell, but 628 00:36:42,559 --> 00:36:45,639 are there enough ministers raising hell? 629 00:36:46,199 --> 00:36:50,159 Speaker 4: Is it time for a letter to be written? I 630 00:36:50,199 --> 00:36:56,400 mean I have from a jail, and you do see, 631 00:36:56,519 --> 00:36:58,519 you know, we don't want to ever take away from 632 00:36:58,599 --> 00:37:00,320 you know, what is being said and what is being 633 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,599 done in people that are standing in the gap. But 634 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,159 there's far too and this is what King is addressing, 635 00:37:06,159 --> 00:37:09,119 there are far too many people who are not saying 636 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,440 anything about what we're seeing in Minneapolis. 637 00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:15,159 Speaker 1: G Can I give a word of hope to our ASCAR, 638 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,400 to guests in this hour because I do know that 639 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,480 we're moving forward in just a moment, maybe two minutes 640 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,119 for John lesiotis followed by two minutes from John Diggles. 641 00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:26,920 Mister lesiotis a word of hope on this the ninety 642 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,960 seventh birthday of Martin Luther King Junior. 643 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,800 Speaker 5: Well, I do think that there's reason to be hopeful here, Jesse, 644 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,800 because I'm convinced in my heart that there are more 645 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,960 good people out there than otherwise. And as a personal note, 646 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,679 I've got two friends up in Minneapolis. My wife was 647 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,920 just up there on business recently, and she was explaining 648 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,800 to me that the community is really pulling together. The 649 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,039 white community is pulling together up there. Two of her 650 00:37:54,039 --> 00:37:59,119 friends are shopping for some Hispanic neighbors and are showing 651 00:37:59,159 --> 00:37:59,679 their kids. 652 00:37:59,559 --> 00:38:01,039 Speaker 3: Back and forth at the school. 653 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 5: And I see a lot of resistance here in Chicago, 654 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,039 and I really do think that this is the issue. 655 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 3: That's going to push a lot of moderates to take 656 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:10,480 some action. 657 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,159 Speaker 5: So I do hold out optimism and hope, and I think, 658 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,599 especially with doctor King's birthday coming up, a lot of 659 00:38:18,599 --> 00:38:21,719 people are going to start reflecting and understanding that we 660 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,360 can't sit by and wait for someone else to do something. 661 00:38:25,079 --> 00:38:28,679 Speaker 1: I appreciate that, mister lasiotis boy, You've just given me 662 00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:30,559 a bunch of ideas, The idea that we should be 663 00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:33,920 helping our Latino brothers and sisters and their children get 664 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,159 to and from school and not exposing their parents to 665 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,599 the plague that is troubling all of our communities. 666 00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:46,199 Speaker 2: Mister Dickles, I think the message of hope is right 667 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,559 there at the end of doctor King's letter when he 668 00:38:49,679 --> 00:38:52,360 shows the pastors and he talks about the non violent 669 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,119 protesters who are there, who've done this entire time, who 670 00:38:57,159 --> 00:39:01,199 have stood up, and he says specifically for the sublime courage, 671 00:39:01,639 --> 00:39:05,800 for their willingness to suffer and their amazing discipline in 672 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,199 the midst of great provocation. Is that now that that sentence, 673 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,559 those words fit so well for today, right now, what's 674 00:39:13,559 --> 00:39:16,360 happening in Minneapolis and across the country. It is a 675 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,639 reminder of what took place in that journey and what 676 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:25,280 the discipline and commitment it took to bring forth meaningful change. 677 00:39:25,559 --> 00:39:27,519 I'll be spending some time and I'm going to read 678 00:39:27,559 --> 00:39:30,280 that ending a couple of times. I hope everyone does 679 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:35,360 as well. There's incredible hope there because we remember where 680 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:36,039 we came from. 681 00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: Those words and phrases, Gina, about forty five seconds remains 682 00:39:39,519 --> 00:39:40,119 in our program. 683 00:39:41,519 --> 00:39:46,039 Speaker 4: Well, I do like the graphic never give up, never 684 00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:51,079 give up our dignity, our faith, and our ability to 685 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,360 dream of a world rid of color lines and a 686 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:59,639 world that is better than the one that we left behind, 687 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,719 that that was left to us. And so there will 688 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,320 be trials, there will be tribulations, but we are reaching 689 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,960 for brotherhood and what that takes us for us to 690 00:40:09,039 --> 00:40:14,360 be fearless and to stay awake and to seek after 691 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,079 the knowledge that is Martin Luther King. So that's what 692 00:40:19,119 --> 00:40:19,840 I've got for you. 693 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:21,199 Speaker 1: Grateful for your presence on our show. 694 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 3: John Lesiotis, thank you, Jesse, love you. 695 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: You know you're always welcome and I love you too. 696 00:40:26,039 --> 00:40:27,639 And there's nothing you can do about it. I got 697 00:40:27,639 --> 00:40:31,199 that from Tavis. Thank you for being on our show. 698 00:40:31,199 --> 00:40:33,239 Mister Diggles, thank you very much. 699 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,079 Speaker 2: It's good to see you. 700 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:36,800 Speaker 1: And there's nothing you can do about it either. 701 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:37,280 Speaker 6: We love you. 702 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,079 Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson. Been listening to Jackson doing your show 703 00:40:40,199 --> 00:40:42,719 on Fat Meat Fridays with Gina Towns. More with Gina 704 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,519 Towns when we come forward on k Talk