WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:06.480 You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network. 2 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:10.160 For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to 3 00:00:10.359 --> 00:00:12.720 ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. 4 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:16.679 Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four fifteen. 5 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:21.359 When given an opportunity, deliver excellence and never quit. Rober 6 00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:26.199 Rodriguez broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when 7 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:28.199 we really should be working on that next draft. 8 00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:32.520 It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and 9 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:35.000 business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your 10 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:36.479 screenplay bulletproof. 11 00:00:36.799 --> 00:00:41.960 And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another 12 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:44.640 episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble 13 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:49.119 host Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof 14 00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:54.520 Script Coverage. Now. Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script 15 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:58.280 Coverage actually focuses on the kind of project you are 16 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:01.359 in the goals of the project, so we actually break 17 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:04.840 it down by three categories micro budget, indie film, market, 18 00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:07.640 and studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from 19 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:10.079 a reader that's used to reading temp pole movies when 20 00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:12.920 your movie is gonna be done for one hundred thousand dollars, 21 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:15.879 and we wanted to focus on that. At Bulletproof script Coverage, 22 00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:21.640 our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, WME, NBC, HBO, Disney, 23 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:25.400 Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. 24 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:28.959 So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered 25 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:35.560 by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot Com. Well, guys, 26 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:41.159 today on the show, we have Oscar winning producer Cassian 27 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:45.959 Ellis and Cassian is an indie film icon to say 28 00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:49.879 the least. He has produced over one hundred and thirty 29 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:54.159 feature films in his career that include the two Oscar winners, 30 00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:58.359 Dallas Buyers Club and Lee Daniels The Butler. Cassie and 31 00:01:58.359 --> 00:02:01.560 I had a very frank, in raw conversation on what 32 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:05.200 it takes to be an independent producer, what it was 33 00:02:05.319 --> 00:02:08.520 like finally getting up and winning some Oscars for all 34 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:10.680 the work he has done over the years, and so 35 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:14.479 much more so, without any further ado, please enjoy my 36 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:20.280 conversation with Cassie and Ellis. I like to welcome to 37 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:22.879 the show, Cassie and Ellis. How you doing, Cassian, I'm 38 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.240 doing great. Alex, thank you, thank you so much for 39 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:26.680 coming on the show my friend. I know you're in 40 00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:30.479 the middle of producing seventy five movies this year alone. 41 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:33.159 You know, I keep myself busy, which is good. You know. 42 00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:37.520 I literally wrapped a movie about eight days ago on 43 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:42.360 Saturday in Kentucky and then started shooting another one three 44 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:44.560 days later on Tuesday here in Los Angeles. 45 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:47.759 So you are you do the indie muscle? 46 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:50.960 I do? I really do. You got to keep hustling, 47 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.680 You got to keep trying. You know, you can't give up. 48 00:02:54.199 --> 00:02:57.199 It's a very difficult thing to make a movie happen. 49 00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:00.120 But I you know, I'm very drive. 50 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:03.439 It, no doubt. I saw your filmography, for God's sake. 51 00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:05.719 I mean, you've been doing it for a while and 52 00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:08.000 and uh, you know, before you get started, thank you 53 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:10.439 for making some amazing films in the eighties and nineties 54 00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:12.199 while I was working at the video store. So I 55 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:15.960 appreciate that. I was like, oh, I remember that one. 56 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:16.599 I remember that this. 57 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:18.879 Were the days of Blockbuster. You know, you can go 58 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:21.159 down there and go over the racks and look at 59 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:24.120 all the ones that that that had multiple copies and 60 00:03:24.199 --> 00:03:25.960 that a bunch of them were at You could tell 61 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:29.759 the success and failure of each one. They were stalking 62 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:33.639 and how many that were rented that particular movement. It 63 00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:36.840 was a different time. You know, the video stars were 64 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:40.439 pretty much buying almost anything any and you could just 65 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:43.439 make a movie, you know, for three or four hundred 66 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:48.560 thousand dollars and which I you know, did exploitation movies 67 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:52.199 and sell them off to cut to companies here in 68 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:55.479 America that were looking to try to stop those video shelves. 69 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:58.000 And it was a great business real oh. 70 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:01.039 Yeah, And and and those vhss were like retail was 71 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:02.599 like seventy nine ninety nine. 72 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:03.719 That's crazy. 73 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:06.400 It was insane. I mean it was like, I mean, 74 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:09.199 I always tell people, you have no idea how much 75 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:12.000 money you could have was being made in the eighties. 76 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:14.120 In the ninth you know, it was interesting. You know, 77 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:16.519 I got I got one of the first Beta Max machines. 78 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:19.399 So you know, that was because I decided that that 79 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:21.480 it was easier to get the Beta max tapes because 80 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:23.680 you know, the video stores they would suck some Beta 81 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:27.480 Max and some more. Hr very few people that had 82 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:29.600 Beta Max machines, but I thought I get one because 83 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:32.639 the quality was slightly better at the beginning anyway, and 84 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:35.120 then and then I you know, wouldn't have a problem 85 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:37.439 being able to write whatever I wanted to see. And 86 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:40.240 that's just the share ease of it, being able to 87 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:42.680 take a movie home and watch. How people didn't realize 88 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:47.040 how incredible that experience was because now, of course, you 89 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:49.199 could go online anything you want to see it, see it, 90 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:51.680 you know, three seconds later it's up on your screen. 91 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:54.120 But that wasn't the case in the in the eighties. 92 00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:56.120 You know that you really had to get see movies 93 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:59.240 in the movie theater and then occasionally they would play 94 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:03.639 on network televisi. But you, the advent of the film 95 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:07.839 rental business, you know, the the getting getting vh getting 96 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:11.160 VHS tapes and beta maxes of movies was incredible. So 97 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:13.439 I mean there were literally companies like Restaurant, they were 98 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:16.279 just putting out hundreds of hundreds of titles and people 99 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:21.000 can yeah, Canon Full Moon, all of them. Yeah, they 100 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:24.360 just were making money handover fist on these things and 101 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:27.920 and making you know, Tromer loved him, you know, the 102 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:31.879 Lloyd's the greatest. You know, I'm always I've always been 103 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:34.240 a big admirer of his. But you know, those films 104 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:36.839 were horrific, and but people rented. 105 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:38.600 Them and he's the first one to say it too. 106 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:41.759 I know what he was doing and I was and he's, 107 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:43.800 by the way, he's one of the most intelligent people 108 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:44.519 ever had on the show. 109 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:48.959 And I was the New York Film Film commissioner. You know, 110 00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:51.399 he's he's a lovely, lovely guy. You know. I always 111 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:53.720 would love when ISAs I can. You know, we'd have 112 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:55.720 an office on the colosette with the window looking down 113 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:58.399 on the cosette and see the Toxic Avenger and the 114 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:01.879 whole kind of parade of of his characters going down 115 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:03.920 the street. You know, you look at it. God, Oh 116 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:06.800 my god, I'm surprised that no one's actually made the 117 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:10.199 tox Adventure yet into kind of studio level kind of. 118 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:12.920 Action friends like a real like, a real. 119 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:15.959 Like I said, a marble ye vers talk. 120 00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:18.439 You know what's so fascinating. I always tell people that 121 00:06:18.680 --> 00:06:20.920 in the eighties, you literally if you finished a movie, 122 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:23.279 you made money. If you just if you were able 123 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:26.079 to finish it, it didn't matter. 124 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:30.160 I said. One picture called The Invisible Maniac, and I 125 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:32.839 did it with a friend of mine called Adam Rifkin, 126 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:35.920 and we both were like talking to each other, and 127 00:06:35.959 --> 00:06:38.399 we were both completely broke and I said, dude, we 128 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:39.920 just need to go out and make a movie, and 129 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:41.959 we just need to make something really cheap, and I'll 130 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:43.759 get the money quickly for it, and then we'll just 131 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:45.439 turn it around. We'll make a bunch of money out 132 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:47.839 of it if we can shoot it fast. He goes, well, 133 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:49.639 I've got a great idea. I go was that, he goes, 134 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:53.680 and he was using the pseudonym of Rif Coogan because 135 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:55.040 he didn't, you know, he wanted to have you know, 136 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:58.160 he wanted to have a real careers movie maker. And 137 00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:02.319 we did some films together, thought back in the Chase, 138 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:06.720 for example. But you know, he he he said, I 139 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:08.160 got this great idea for a movie. It's called The 140 00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:11.160 Invisible Maniac and it's it's it's kind of an homage 141 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:13.879 to the Invisible man And but you know, it's like 142 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:16.519 a guy who's janitor in high school go in visibll 143 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:18.360 sealed the girls taking that close up in the in 144 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:21.240 the in the locker rooms. And the beauty of it 145 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:22.639 is we only need to start for a day because 146 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:24.519 he's invisible for the rest of the picture. I was like, 147 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:26.240 oh my god, that's brilliant. And we were shooting it 148 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:30.000 eleven days later, and we shot the whole movie in 149 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:31.839 twelve days. And I was joking around with him the 150 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:33.879 other day because it was still president and I said, 151 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:35.399 you know, do you remember the last day of shooting, 152 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:38.399 we were shooting in this place that was like it 153 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:41.360 was at the bottom of Laurel Canyon and Ventura and 154 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:43.680 it's now some kind of Korean university, but at the 155 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:46.800 time it was like a it was it was like 156 00:07:46.839 --> 00:07:52.759 a university campus, a small one, and it was being 157 00:07:52.839 --> 00:07:56.839 used by some foreign university as a staging point in 158 00:07:56.920 --> 00:07:59.800 Los Angeles for for you know, students that were taking 159 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:02.240 the year off, so they had it looked like classrooms 160 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:04.759 in there. And on the last night day of shooting, 161 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:07.240 we shot for eighteen hours straight, which you know, if 162 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:10.600 you make films, you no, that's pretty gnarlly to be 163 00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:14.160 going for eighteen hours. You know that as each hour 164 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:17.920 winds past the twelve hour mark, you're doing less and 165 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:20.879 less because everybody's just exhausted and they can't even like 166 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:24.399 function anymore. And it's a diminishing return because you're not 167 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:27.000 getting that many shots. And the six hours later that 168 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:29.439 you've been shooting, and it was our last night, like, 169 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:31.600 let's you've got to keep going and get these shots. 170 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:33.919 And I said to him, do you remember that the 171 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:36.600 last thing? You? I just remember you standing in the 172 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:39.679 hallway and there's like the scene where they pulled the 173 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:43.519 fire along and you would like, okay, was that shot 174 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:46.440 in focus? There was the guy? Cameron was like yes, 175 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:50.320 because was it in English? He goes, yes, all right, fine, 176 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:54.679 that's you know, good, We're moving on. And that was literally, 177 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.960 you know, it was it. It was hilarious. But yeah, 178 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:00.679 it was a different kind of filmmaking in those days. 179 00:09:00.679 --> 00:09:02.919 You know. Really I learned how to make films actually 180 00:09:02.919 --> 00:09:05.000 in that period? Is that really? So? 181 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:07.080 I don't mean interrupted, but is that where you got 182 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:09.200 you start? How did you actually get started in this 183 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:10.120 in this business? 184 00:09:10.600 --> 00:09:12.799 Well, you know, it sounds kind of privileged, but I 185 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:16.200 when I was about ten years old, my mother met 186 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:18.080 an American movie producer was in a lot of making 187 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:20.919 a film with Warren Beatty called Kaleidoscope. His name was 188 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:23.600 Ali Casser, and they fell madly in love and moved 189 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:26.600 in together, had two more children. I had two brothers already, 190 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:29.279 and then they had two more, my little brother and sister, 191 00:09:29.799 --> 00:09:34.240 and and they so from from ten years old we 192 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:39.559 were suddenly thrown from very normal sorry about that, from 193 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:43.360 a very normal existence into this movie existence. We come 194 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:48.039 to California and we would see movie stars and meet 195 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:50.600 movie stars, go to film sets, and you know, he 196 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:53.240 was making films with you know me Missouri Breaks with 197 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:56.559 Jack Nixon and Marlon Brando. He you know, did Harper 198 00:09:56.720 --> 00:09:57.440 with Paul Newman. 199 00:09:59.559 --> 00:10:02.120 We'll be I back after a word from our sponsor, 200 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:07.000 and now back to the show. 201 00:10:08.919 --> 00:10:11.399 You know it made multiple films with Richard Burton and 202 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:15.519 Elizabeth Taylor. So you know that we met all these 203 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:21.120 mega movie stars, you know, as kids, and so from 204 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:23.720 the by the time I was fifteen, I was desperate 205 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:26.200 to do it. I really wanted to do what he 206 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:29.200 was doing. You know, one day I'm gonna be like Elliott, 207 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:31.240 I'm gonna wake up at two o'clock in the morning 208 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:34.159 and yell at people in California on the phone from London. 209 00:10:34.440 --> 00:10:37.559 And but I don't, ye know, I'm not that person 210 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:38.240 he was. 211 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:38.600 He was. 212 00:10:38.639 --> 00:10:41.720 He was quite a yeller. And but he he made 213 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:43.639 like sixteen movies or something like that, which I just 214 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:46.960 thought was a credible number of movies. You know, I've 215 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:50.480 actually finally not made almost twice as many, right, he 216 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:52.799 made some really good movies. He made some really good movies, 217 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:54.720 and so I would watch. You know, he knew by 218 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:56.159 the time I was fifteen or sixteen that I was 219 00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:58.480 really interested in what he was doing. And I'm not 220 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:00.240 sure that I would do this, but he would let 221 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:01.919 me go to meetings with him. He was saying, he 222 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:03.600 shut up to sit in the corner, and you can 223 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:05.799 listen to what I'm saying. I listened to him hustling 224 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:08.759 people for money, and so I kind of, you know, 225 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:10.799 I understood what the what the game was. And then 226 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:13.279 and then, you know, during my vacations, he'd make me 227 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:15.879 go work, you know, for a very early age on 228 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:18.519 the sets, basically getting tea and making copies of scripts 229 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:20.759 and things like that, like really menial jobs. But it 230 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:22.919 was good because it was you know, I got exposure 231 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:25.399 to have films were being made and see the directors 232 00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:28.159 working with the actors, and you know, that was that 233 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:30.039 was an incredible thing. And then you know, I went 234 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:32.600 to college, but I dropped that parents were purious in 235 00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:35.759 California after I worked on a movie called The Dogs 236 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:37.960 of War and had a bit of money and said 237 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:39.600 I was staying California. So I get a job, got 238 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:42.240 a job, worked for a company called film Waves, which 239 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:44.600 was you know, had a success with with a movie 240 00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:48.840 called Dress to Kill Brandon, the Farmer movie, and and 241 00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:51.399 and then they all went belly up, ended up being 242 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:53.960 sold to a Ryan Pitchers. But by that point, by 243 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:55.440 the time I was twenty two or twenty three, my 244 00:11:55.720 --> 00:11:58.679 stepfather and I had had a rebrush lump and he said, listen, 245 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:00.320 why did you come up with an idea of a movie? 246 00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:02.120 And we'll do it together. And I said, I've got 247 00:12:02.120 --> 00:12:03.840 a great idea. I just saw this movie called Fast 248 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:07.039 Times at Ridgemont High, and I think the idea of 249 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:10.440 taking the character Spacoli, the you know, the short pen 250 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:13.320 thing and the guy with the pizza and taking that 251 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:16.480 kind of superde kind of crazy thing and putting him 252 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:19.080 into Oxford University would be a funny fish out of 253 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:21.240 waters story. He said, I love that. Let's do it. 254 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:24.879 And we developed the script with a guy called Robert 255 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:28.039 Baris Bot Bars and uh, and then we made it 256 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:31.440 called auxin Blues and brob Love. And it wasn't quite 257 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:33.279 what I had in mind, but you know, it was 258 00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:35.679 more romantic question with the story, and I thought it 259 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:37.720 was going to be kind of more kind of wacky, 260 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:40.559 funny comedy, but it was. It was a charming movie. 261 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:42.919 And he sold it for a lot of money and 262 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:46.159 I didn't make any money out of it, which he said, 263 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:47.559 but if you make a lot of money at that's 264 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:49.360 at this point in your life, you'll never have any 265 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:52.360 appreciation of it later. And it was a great lesson 266 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:53.240 life lesson. 267 00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:58.360 So you made you made a lot of film. I mean, 268 00:12:58.440 --> 00:12:59.879 it sounds like you were born into this and you 269 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:01.200 we're just ready to roll. 270 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:03.480 I was. I mean like a child of an athlete, 271 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:04.919 you know, I was ready to do it. 272 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:08.039 So then what is it? Because this is the biggest 273 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:11.080 question I get from producers? How do you get money? 274 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:15.480 How does it change? The difference between raising money in 275 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:19.559 the eighties and nineties versus today's marketplace, which is so 276 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:21.000 vastly different. 277 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:24.600 Here's the crazy part of it. You know, it's like 278 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:28.320 it never changes and it's the same. It's the same. 279 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:34.919 Thing is the faces changed, but the the but the 280 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:37.799 you know, the posture of the studios for me, the 281 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:42.080 faces changed. You know, there's different buyers, different people, different names, 282 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:46.399 different companies, different whatever, but the same basic tenant is 283 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:49.279 still true, which is that you got to have the package. 284 00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:51.120 You got to have the script, you got to have 285 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:53.919 the idea, you got to have the director, you got 286 00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:57.440 to have some of the actors, and the money. You know. 287 00:13:57.600 --> 00:13:59.799 I'm always a great believer that if you you know, 288 00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:03.200 I I'm crazy. You know, I'm a I'm a complete gambler. 289 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:05.879 I find things that I want to do. And I 290 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:07.720 just had to start this and I just said about 291 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:09.279 it and say, Okay, I'm going to make the movie 292 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:11.639 somehow or other, you know, when the chips are down, 293 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:14.559 somehow or other, figure it out. And I'm also a 294 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:16.759 great believer in making movies for what I can raise, 295 00:14:17.799 --> 00:14:20.399 meaning that you know, I could say to myself, Okay, 296 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:22.279 this is five million dollar budget, but all I can 297 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:24.600 do is raise three million dollars for it. That's the 298 00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:26.480 best offers that I've got on the table. And I 299 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:28.799 got attach credit for you know, half a million dollars. 300 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:30.240 So I got to figure out if I could meet 301 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:33.120 this actual movie for three and a half million dollars 302 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:36.519 instead of five million dollars. So I'm a great believer 303 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:38.600 in making films. I know there's a lot of people 304 00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:40.399 in our business. They get caught up in the idea 305 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:43.000 of like, I got to have my seven point three 306 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:45.039 two three million dollars. 307 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:47.080 Can't make it for a penny less, And you're like, 308 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:48.120 you know, come on. 309 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:51.200 That's a joke. And you know that that was that 310 00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:53.000 was a skill set because I have I had a 311 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:55.080 whole career in the middle at William Marks. When I 312 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:57.440 went around there, the Independent Film Division, just out of 313 00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:59.440 the blue, they hired me to come and run it 314 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:02.120 for them fifteen years. And that's why I was so 315 00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:05.799 successful for them, is because my mindset as a producer, 316 00:15:06.039 --> 00:15:07.639 which I brought to the agent, and part of it 317 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:10.679 was totally different from anybody else inside the agency. You know, 318 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:12.840 they would go, well, my client says, he's got this 319 00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:15.320 budget for five point three million dollars and he has 320 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:17.279 to have five point three million dollars or the film's 321 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:19.759 not going to be made. And I'm like, I'm in 322 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:22.000 touch with me. Let's meet, let's go over this, let's 323 00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:24.159 figure it out. And we would go over it together 324 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:26.440 and we ended up making some of the greatest inpendent 325 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:29.279 films ever made because we weren't worried about the budgets. 326 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:31.600 Who were worried about, you know, the quality. Of course, 327 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:33.720 you want to make sure that you're not compromising the 328 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:36.559 quality of the films. But you know, the cost of 329 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:40.480 a movie is relative, and you know, I've seen films 330 00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:43.480 that cost thirty million dollars that look like absolute garbage 331 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:45.360 and seeing films that made that were made for three 332 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:47.960 million dollars that look incredible. So it's like, you know, 333 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:52.320 the relative costs of films, you know, to their quality 334 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:56.679 is not necessarily the perfect ratio. 335 00:15:57.440 --> 00:15:59.559 So let me ask you the whole, the whole chicken 336 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:01.799 and egg thing, which is like, you need the package, 337 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:03.279 but you need the money to get the package, and 338 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:05.360 you can't get the package without the money unless you 339 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:08.639 are someone like yourself who has relationships and you have 340 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:10.480 a track record, and you might be able to put things. 341 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:12.600 You know, you call up somebody like, oh it's Gossie 342 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:15.399 and this is going to go. This is a serious dude. 343 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:18.120 But for young producers coming up who might not have 344 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.080 one hundred and twenty films under their belt, how would 345 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:25.519 you go about trying to package a film to raise 346 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:26.559 money and vice versa. 347 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:30.120 Well, you know, I always tell people that you know, 348 00:16:30.519 --> 00:16:32.759 if you know, partner up with somebody who does know 349 00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:37.039 what they're doing, because you know, the business is about relationships, 350 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:39.000 is about how you meet people and how you get 351 00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:40.840 to know people, how you meet the agents, how you 352 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:43.799 meet the people that are making decisions, how you get 353 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:48.360 to you know somehow, or the meat actors. You know, 354 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:50.559 I've always tried to be very friendly towards the actors 355 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:52.519 that I'm working with and hope I'll get to work 356 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:55.080 with them again. A good example is Garrett Headlin too. 357 00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:56.720 I just finished a movie with like mad And while 358 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.440 we were doing My Band, and just hit it off 359 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:02.039 with them right away. He's such a great actor. He 360 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:05.599 really is incredible. And uh, and we've tried for three 361 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:07.680 and a half years, four years to find another picture 362 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:09.839 that we want to do together, and finally found one, 363 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:13.039 Desperation Broad, which is a shot. As I said, we 364 00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:16.480 wrapped it about eight days ago. But uh, you know, 365 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:18.960 it's keep those relationships intact with the people that you're 366 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:21.880 working with. You know, if you look through through my 367 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.599 my biop you'll see that I've worked with lots of 368 00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:27.240 people multiple times. You know. The trick is is to 369 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:31.799 is to keep those relationships going and then as far 370 00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:35.200 as the financing is concerned, you know, there is keep 371 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:38.759 your aid to the grapd as. I said, find somebody 372 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:41.079 who actually doesn't know what they to partner out with them, 373 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:43.759 because only fifty percent of a film that is actually 374 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:45.240 going to go is a lot better than one hundred 375 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:48.640 percent of something that's nothing. And you know, so you know, 376 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:50.119 people go, I don't want to give away a piece 377 00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:51.920 of my movie to somebody else, and they all they 378 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:54.920 did was make the introduction to the But you know what, honestly, 379 00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:58.119 if that was the thing that triggered the movie, that 380 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:00.880 it's with it. And then at least you have a 381 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:02.720 movie under your belt. And so when you call up 382 00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:05.680 an agent I produced blah blah movie, you actually have 383 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:07.799 a movie you've produced, as opposed to saying look I've 384 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:09.519 never made a movie before, but I've got this great 385 00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:11.000 script and I want to make this film. An agent 386 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:13.000 so are like, oh yeah, please, all right, everyone's got 387 00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:14.559 a great script. You know. I can't tell you how 388 00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:16.720 many times people called me up and said, I've got 389 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:18.880 this fantastic script. It's going to win a bunch of Oscars. 390 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:21.279 Everyone says that that moviees are gonna win Oscars. How 391 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:23.240 many films actually do win oscar It's very few, you know, 392 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:26.000 certainly not the ones that there's any really a few 393 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:28.400 that came to me that the people pitching that way 394 00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:31.319 and they ended up winning or be nominated for oscripts 395 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:33.960 and so, you know, but that is the drink. That's 396 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:37.119 what everybody's looking for. It's there's that golden ticket somehow 397 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:38.599 or other. The film that they make, it's going to 398 00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:41.119 be the one that makes it scores that the the 399 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:43.839 what you have to do is keep at it, keep 400 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:47.039 making movies, keep doing it because each film that you 401 00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:50.960