Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sikos, I am Dan Valley coming
Speaker 1: at you with the one, the only, this certified, fantabulous
Speaker 1: mister Grant Hugh's rbnox has gathered you round today to
Speaker 1: talk about NBA Free agency, which the free agency itself
Speaker 1: has been Do you hear that playing in the background?
Speaker 1: There's something in my ear? Grant, I just paused it. Okay, good,
Speaker 1: there's some lady was talking in my ear. There must
Speaker 1: be an ad or something. But got it. We're good.
Speaker 1: We're good.
Speaker 2: From inside the house.
Speaker 1: We're here to talk about NBA Free agency, the free
Speaker 1: agency of which has been pretty boring. It's been four hours,
Speaker 1: over four hours legally since news has been allowed to
Speaker 1: trickle out. Too much of this stuff happened beforehand, apparently.
Speaker 1: But luckily we've got two mega transactions to talk about
Speaker 1: and a bunch of other stuff that's just sort of
Speaker 1: billing in the wind. Maybe we'll get some live news
Speaker 1: and Choms will take like eight hundred words to report
Speaker 1: exactly two syllables worth of updates. But Grant, how are
Speaker 1: you on this free agency extravaganza day?
Speaker 2: Well, my agent Mark Bartle, scene and so and so
Speaker 2: who I can't remember has I was going to try
Speaker 2: to replicate that Sham's tweet without looking at it for
Speaker 2: the verbiage. I'm happy to be here, happy to punch up.
Speaker 2: Schams has made it. He's highly successful, so it's cool
Speaker 2: for us to make fun of him and his his
Speaker 2: water carrying tweets. So I'm feeling good. I'm curious if
Speaker 2: of the two blockbuster moves you wanted to start with
Speaker 2: Luke canardor Keon Ellis, which one really strikes your fancy
Speaker 2: the most?
Speaker 1: Well, actually I wanted to start here. DeAndre Jordan. Did
Speaker 1: you have that feet up? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Pretty good.
Speaker 1: I Oh look, we got some Zach Collins breaking news too.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna shot these out of the Zach Collins
Speaker 1: getting two year, seventeen million dollar contract from the Bulls.
Speaker 1: No word yet if that includes a mutual does yeah?
Speaker 2: Does it include a technically illegal mutual option that can
Speaker 2: spur a conversation about a new trade upon being opted
Speaker 2: into but not out of? See now I remember all
Speaker 2: the stupid wording.
Speaker 1: My brain hurts for.
Speaker 2: People that don't. If you're listening to this, you've probably
Speaker 2: you're a pretty online bunch, you guys out there, So
Speaker 2: like you've seen the cham's tweets about Kean Ellis's deal,
Speaker 2: and before that one, what was the ridiculous Oh was
Speaker 2: the Andrew Wiggins one that was like inscrutable that he
Speaker 2: couldn't parse. There's no such thing as a mutual option.
Speaker 2: So when you see that, we've concluded that most likely
Speaker 2: what that is is a player option on the final
Speaker 2: year of a contract that is partially guaranteed. And for
Speaker 2: an example of that, that's kind of the James Harden
Speaker 2: situation with the Cavs where he had a player option
Speaker 2: for forty two point whatever, but thirteen of that was guaranteed.
Speaker 2: So that's the closest thing you get to a mutual option, right, Like,
Speaker 2: that's just so we all understand what we're talking about.
Speaker 1: And unless teams were allowed to invent new clauses in
Speaker 1: the CBA and maybe there's mutual options now.
Speaker 2: Cool, Hey, that's fun.
Speaker 1: I guess another thing we need to keep track of now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I did want to say a note since we
Speaker 1: have the chi on I want I hope the people
Speaker 1: that are just coming in it or saying like, what
Speaker 1: the hell's got why is DeAndre Jordan up on the
Speaker 1: right now? But I gotta give it up for DeAndre Jordan.
Speaker 1: He's always like the first name off the board once
Speaker 1: free agency goes live. That dude is in demand for
Speaker 1: his locker room gennes a Quah and just.
Speaker 2: As someone who I put a huge premium on, like
Speaker 2: knowing my schedule for the week and beyond that, I said,
Speaker 2: I just want to Hey, maybe DeAndre Jordan just doesn't
Speaker 2: just wants to get it done, wants to know what
Speaker 2: his next year is going to look like and would
Speaker 2: like to move on and not hassle with it. So
Speaker 2: we just now he doesn't have to worry. He's got
Speaker 2: that money coming, he knows where he's gonna be, and uh,
Speaker 2: he can just have his off season. It's good for him.
Speaker 1: So where did you want to begin you want to
Speaker 1: talk about?
Speaker 2: We probably better go Kauhi who you know the job?
Speaker 2: He's something? Well is this guy you couldn't quit Toronto?
Speaker 2: Toronto couldn't quit him.
Speaker 1: Uh, this is the Thados meme, right, you couldn't live
Speaker 1: with the weight of your own failure in La Where's
Speaker 1: it brought you back to us?
Speaker 2: Wow, there's a lot of good Thanos memes that have
Speaker 2: circulated in the NBA community. So Let's see, I don't
Speaker 2: want to get the terms up here correct before.
Speaker 1: Let me Oh, so I do have it in the
Speaker 1: doc that I shared John, so I can I can
Speaker 1: take us through. It's sorry I should let you know that,
Speaker 1: but the.
Speaker 2: Track shares me on that I didn't open yet.
Speaker 1: You're welcome. So it's the Clipper. The Raptors are trading
Speaker 1: brandon Ingram Grady Dick a twenty twenty seven first round swap,
Speaker 1: a twenty thirty one first round pick and a twenty
Speaker 1: thirty three first round pick, as well as a twenty
Speaker 1: thirty second round pick and a twenty thirty three second
Speaker 1: round pick to the La Clippers for Kawhi Leonard. The
Speaker 1: one thing I want to note here is I know
Speaker 1: people have said that the swap is basically going to
Speaker 1: be worthless because Toronto will be better than the Clippers.
Speaker 1: The OKAC has swap rights with the Clippers next years.
Speaker 1: Unless you think the Raptors are going to be better
Speaker 1: than the Thunder, that swap is actually probably going to
Speaker 1: be exercised, and so I think that is an important
Speaker 1: element of this deal, as is the fact that the
Speaker 1: Lake the Lakers, excuse me, the Clippers prioritized the Clippers
Speaker 1: prioritize the distant first round picks rather than well, the
Speaker 1: Raptors are probably gonna be pretty darn good in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty seven. There's a swap there obviously, but also the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty nine So getting the out years for an
Speaker 1: age thirty five? Kuhi Leonard? Who wants an extension? It
Speaker 1: seems like and as els, what is it? Two years
Speaker 1: one twenty plus? Right? I think I have my notes? Yep,
Speaker 1: what are your just what were your one before we
Speaker 1: get into the like the elements of this deal, the
Speaker 1: impact on the court, what they gave up. This is
Speaker 1: really fucking cool that he just wanted to go back
Speaker 1: to Toronto. Yeah, like that's just that's awesome.
Speaker 2: I love it and and surprising, like well, I guess
Speaker 2: it was really you know, the Raptors and the Spurs.
Speaker 2: I guess we're the two teams. Which is kind of
Speaker 2: a funny thing too. It's like, well, he just wants
Speaker 2: to go somewhere where he knows where the restaurants are
Speaker 2: or whatever. He's comfortable.
Speaker 1: Uh, he just wants to go where somebody knows his name.
Speaker 2: Somebody knows his name.
Speaker 1: How many film and TV references can be made throughout
Speaker 1: this spot. We're often we're off three clips, great.
Speaker 2: Clips so far. I well, I think let's let's break
Speaker 2: it up a little bit. Let's talk the Toronto side
Speaker 2: of it. You preciently called this the why not Us
Speaker 2: era of the NBA, and this is a very much
Speaker 2: this is very much a whine not us move. It
Speaker 2: comes with play a risk. We can talk about those.
Speaker 2: I think like, as you're assessing how good this Raptor's
Speaker 2: team is and where it slots in the East, you
Speaker 2: don't get to just dismiss all of the reservations we've
Speaker 2: had about every Clippers team. Kawhi has been on this
Speaker 2: whole time, basically since he became known for having injuries
Speaker 2: and missing games. That all still applies. I'd like the
Speaker 2: questions about can he make it through a full regular
Speaker 2: season in playoffs are all still there, If not like
Speaker 2: amplified because he's thirty five, but adding him to this
Speaker 2: team and getting rid of brandon Ingram, who is not
Speaker 2: a helpful postseason player, and a bunch of draft capital,
Speaker 2: it definitely elevates the Raptors. I don't know. I can't
Speaker 2: sit here and say they're clearly better than the Knicks
Speaker 2: or the or the celt or whoever else you want
Speaker 2: to toss in there. But they're definitely improved, and maybe
Speaker 2: that's all it takes in the East and in the
Speaker 2: league right now. I do think there's a great case
Speaker 2: that like they're they're in a conversation they weren't in before,
Speaker 2: which which is like kind of all you want right now.
Speaker 2: I think like, it's hard to do a whole lot
Speaker 2: better than that. There aren't a lot of super teams
Speaker 2: being constructed these days, so this is this is kind
Speaker 2: of the best you can do. Do you do you
Speaker 2: agree with that? Like or do you think, oh, this
Speaker 2: is a favorite?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Are we just kind of like, well, the Raptors are
Speaker 2: involved in the conversation.
Speaker 1: There, I mean, the offseason is still so unsettled. But
Speaker 1: the idea of him going to a top five defense,
Speaker 1: where I know that they their offense improved last year
Speaker 1: and I think it was top ten and a half
Speaker 1: court it just that wasn't we saw in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a top ten, no half court type offense.
Speaker 1: But you're surrounding him with the level of defensive talent
Speaker 1: already in place. Brendan Ingram and Grady Dick. I would say,
Speaker 1: we're not active participants in informing that defense brand Ingram
Speaker 1: operated within it, but he was still someone that you
Speaker 1: needed to game plan around. Kawi is the opposite is Okay,
Speaker 1: you have Scotty, you have CMB of Jamal shed the Kawhi.
Speaker 1: Leonard's job gets easier, but it can still be harder
Speaker 1: than brandon Ingram's was. And you're going to be great.
Speaker 1: I think what this does, it's tough to say because
Speaker 1: we don't know what Detroit is gonna do. They just
Speaker 1: seem like a mess, but it's their situation is fluid.
Speaker 1: They're not a mess, but it's right now. The biggest
Speaker 1: thing they've done is they have Isaiah Joe and they
Speaker 1: resigned Kevin Herder and the Jayleen dur and stuff's getting awkward.
Speaker 1: I think it's easy in the moment to sit here,
Speaker 1: look at what's happening in Detroit, look at the unease
Speaker 1: in Boston, what's gonna happen with Jalen Brown, and say,
Speaker 1: you know what, the Raptors are just the second best
Speaker 1: team in the East. I think that's a stinctive possibility.
Speaker 1: But we'll be getting ahead of our skis a little
Speaker 1: bit here. And I think the biggest thing of what
Speaker 1: you said is Kawhi Leonard's health. We don't know if
Speaker 1: he's gonna like if he's if he plays in fewer
Speaker 1: games than it takes to qualify for all NBA. And
Speaker 1: I'm talking about you know, if it's sixty three or
Speaker 1: sixty whatever. Okay, great, you're you're gonna have questions. What
Speaker 1: Bowden's really well for this team is not just the youth,
Speaker 1: like they're really young around him, and so that's going
Speaker 1: to just even when he's playing and they're playing fast,
Speaker 1: it should make him, it should make his life easier.
Speaker 1: The other thing here, though, is Kawhi Leonard has kind
Speaker 1: of proven to me that his is now a game
Speaker 1: that might age gracefully. On the offensive end, he took
Speaker 1: a ton of threes last year. He took over four
Speaker 1: unassisted three point attempts per game last year, and he
Speaker 1: shot them at like a thirty seven thirty eight percent clip.
Speaker 1: The Raptors did like Brandon Ingram wasn't doing that even
Speaker 1: if he gave you the three point volume. Scottie Barnes
Speaker 1: can't do that. That's not even really a manual. Quickly's
Speaker 1: game to have that now within this offense as a
Speaker 1: not as a crutch, but as an option. But then
Speaker 1: it's also well, Kawhi is now used to spacing the floor,
Speaker 1: so he's gonna get up threes in higher volume. I
Speaker 1: think it makes it easier for him to deemphasize him
Speaker 1: in the offense or at least as he ages, or
Speaker 1: at least come up with a plan to wear our
Speaker 1: offense might not look so different. It will look different,
Speaker 1: but when Kuhi is not playing like he's settled into
Speaker 1: a different type of roles where it's not just Kawhi
Speaker 1: is the hub and he's are all everything. They don't
Speaker 1: need that this time around for him. So that's why
Speaker 1: I find it intriguing and also why I think you
Speaker 1: can justify like this is a real outlay, Like we're
Speaker 1: talking about age thirty five, Kuhi Leanderders about to get
Speaker 1: a new deal.
Speaker 2: That's the next question, really, and you have to view
Speaker 2: you have to try to answer it in some pretty
Speaker 2: important context, which is Kawhi basically said, this is the
Speaker 2: only place that I'm going to extend right, so like
Speaker 2: Toronto knew that, and it still costs like a no
Speaker 2: joke package of draft capital to get this done. I
Speaker 2: do think, I mean, I'm lower on Ingram than probably
Speaker 2: almost everybody, but like.
Speaker 1: Well, who are you lower on brandon Ingram or Lamela Ball?
Speaker 1: The people will come on.
Speaker 2: Man way lower on Ingram. So like maybe part of
Speaker 2: this is, like I guess, like you have to include
Speaker 2: the two real firsts and the swap because you're also
Speaker 2: getting like the Clippers probably don't want Ingram, Like I
Speaker 2: don't think it's it's likely maybe they'll surprise us that
Speaker 2: la can turn around and turn and flip Ingram for
Speaker 2: like significantly positive value, maybe moderately positive value. But everybody
Speaker 2: hated that extension once he signed it, right, Like I
Speaker 2: just I don't know. Maybe I'm not listening to the
Speaker 2: pro brandon Ingram section of the populace, but this is
Speaker 2: a lot to give up for someone who steered himself
Speaker 2: to you and kind of shut off, you know, other
Speaker 2: teams which shrunk the market limited leverage. So it's it
Speaker 2: is a lot, and I I just think, like I think,
Speaker 2: as we sit here now, I view the risk as
Speaker 2: worth it, but it is a risk, like it's an
Speaker 2: it's a massive risk. The dude's thirty five, I think
Speaker 2: he gives Toronto someplace to go with the ball in
Speaker 2: the postseason games they want to win, and probably more broadly,
Speaker 2: the very real ability to have the best player on
Speaker 2: the floor for a given series, regardless of who they play,
Speaker 2: like Kawhi can be that good like we have. We've
Speaker 2: seen it plenty of times. Like I'm not just talking
Speaker 2: finals MVPs, but like last year, there were streaches where like,
Speaker 2: this guy's a first team All NBA player, like full stop,
Speaker 2: he just I.
Speaker 1: Had him on my first team he was.
Speaker 2: I would be I would be shocked if he when
Speaker 2: he plays, I would be shocked if he's not just
Speaker 2: no brainer all NBA caliber producer. How much is he
Speaker 2: gonna play?
Speaker 1: That's just you.
Speaker 2: You don't get to pretend like that's not an issue
Speaker 2: because he changed teams, like that's been the issue for
Speaker 2: five of the seven years or four of the seven
Speaker 2: that he was in LA. Uh So that's all to say,
Speaker 2: hugely risky. I think this is a reasonable package. If,
Speaker 2: if anything, it's a little too much from from Toronto,
Speaker 2: I would say, what do you what do you think?
Speaker 1: You're probably right, but I wonder how much of what's
Speaker 1: factoring it is they're just familiarity with how Kawhi likes
Speaker 1: to operate and knowing that he'll be open to his
Speaker 1: workload being managed because it's he's coming to a different
Speaker 1: situation than he was in the Clippers even last year.
Speaker 1: I mean James Harden was there for part of the season,
Speaker 1: but shape going into this year and towards the end
Speaker 1: of last year like he was very much everything. And
Speaker 1: so you now juxtapose that against not just the Raptors,
Speaker 1: is I would say you have more on ball options
Speaker 1: in general when you're looking at Scotty Barnes or Manual
Speaker 1: Quickly and r J. Barrett. But just look at what
Speaker 1: Scotty did in the playoffs because he was His on
Speaker 1: ball share increased a excuse me, decreased a ton last season,
Speaker 1: which was good. I think like that made it easier
Speaker 1: on Barrett, on Ingram, on the minutes he played with Quickly.
Speaker 1: That being said, now if you're ready to scale him
Speaker 1: up like does I don't know how much of Kawhi's
Speaker 1: health can be related to his actual workload versus is
Speaker 1: this just a degenerative condition he's getting older. That's the risk.
Speaker 1: I it probably is. Push comes to shove. It's probably
Speaker 1: a hair too much I mean Brandon Ingram had returned
Speaker 1: to quote unquote all star level, and I think even
Speaker 1: he was banged up in the playoffs, and they were
Speaker 1: just asking him to do something that he shouldn't be
Speaker 1: tasked with doing. When you're looking at the like the
Speaker 1: defensive attention he would draw, or just the role you
Speaker 1: wanted him to play. Kawhi Leonard can do that. And
Speaker 1: I think in a vacuum, what you gave up, including Ingram,
Speaker 1: is worth what you're getting, even when factoring in the
Speaker 1: age and extension. But we're kind of circling the drain
Speaker 1: on well, how many games you're getting it for. I
Speaker 1: actually don't think it matters as long as he's available
Speaker 1: for the playoffs. And so this is this situation where
Speaker 1: he needs to play fifty games in the regular season
Speaker 1: next year, then so be it. I think the Raptors
Speaker 1: have enough that they're young enough that they could navigate it.
Speaker 1: So it's it's a lot, it's a and now you
Speaker 1: I'm assuming they're gonna extend him, right like, that's that's
Speaker 1: got to be part.
Speaker 2: Of the Yeah, I'm pricing that in and that and
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know how much is going to change.
Speaker 2: I guess just the natural decline of age will make
Speaker 2: maybe those out years a little if here. But yeah, whatever,
Speaker 2: that's just that was part of it. I don't have
Speaker 2: a huge issue with it. What about the Clippers side
Speaker 2: of this, because if we're sitting here both saying like
Speaker 2: maybe Toronto gave up a little too much.
Speaker 1: As if you had any concerns about the Kawhi fit,
Speaker 1: do you think that this is just hand in glove.
Speaker 2: He's the type of player that there's no such thing
Speaker 2: as a fit issue with him. He because he does
Speaker 2: everything well. Like he's a great off ball scorer. He's
Speaker 2: a great on ball scorer. He's a great playoff scorer
Speaker 2: because he can make difficult shots. He can guard who
Speaker 2: you need him to guard. He can guard, he can
Speaker 2: play bigger players. You're probably not gonna put him on
Speaker 2: a point guard, but like the Raptors are very well
Speaker 2: equipped to handle point Shed's a great defender. They can
Speaker 2: you know, Scottie Barnes can guard anybody. I don't see
Speaker 2: a fit issue whatsoever. No, I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm curious to see just how the offensive usage is distributed,
Speaker 1: because I think the biggest adjustment, probably aside from Kawhi
Speaker 1: this probably has the biggest like emmanual quickly and RJ.
Speaker 1: Barrett will have to adapt the most. At the same time,
Speaker 1: Brandon Ingram was just there this season, so you even
Speaker 1: if Kauhi takes up more total usage, when you're looking
Speaker 1: at him as a playmaker, I probably agree with you there.
Speaker 1: You did say something though that I didn't really think of.
Speaker 1: And we've talked about a lot in other trades. Part
Speaker 1: of the premium you're paying here is you didn't need
Speaker 1: to give up any of your premier prospects. Jakobe Walter
Speaker 1: is still here, Jamal shed is still there. Of CMB,
Speaker 1: most notably is still there for sure, And so that
Speaker 1: ends up being Alan Graves. You didn't have to include
Speaker 1: him or you just drafted so and I'm the other
Speaker 1: thing that I am curious. We've seen Kaui play on
Speaker 1: faster iterations of the Clippers before, even though he wasn't
Speaker 1: the driving force of it. I want to see if
Speaker 1: that changes with Toronto at all, Like does that impact
Speaker 1: them getting up and down the floor. But that's probably
Speaker 1: If anything, it probably just adds variability to the cadence
Speaker 1: at which they could play, because when you're in transition,
Speaker 1: previously as Toronto. It felt almost as if, well, that's
Speaker 1: so we don't have to operate in the half court
Speaker 1: and now you don't have to view it as that
Speaker 1: type of a proposition.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think too, like the guys that really affect
Speaker 2: your pace, like a Luca, for example, who wants to
Speaker 2: bring the ball up and does it slowly every time.
Speaker 2: That's not Kauwhi. So the Raptors can very much just
Speaker 2: keep running sort of around him because he's not the
Speaker 2: one that like is gonna get it over at seventeen
Speaker 2: seconds and then you know, get you into something. And
Speaker 2: like he's not eating up the clock, dribbling the ball
Speaker 2: or like walking it up like that. That's just so
Speaker 2: I think he's not going to be like run sprinting
Speaker 2: the wings every possession. You know, they're not going to
Speaker 2: be rushing the ball over half court at twenty two
Speaker 2: and he's out there ahead of the pack. But like
Speaker 2: everybody else that can is young and athletic will be
Speaker 2: like that, I don't think. I don't think he's the
Speaker 2: type of addition that meaningfully affects your pace and in
Speaker 2: this case specifically slows it down like what he does.
Speaker 2: It's in the only sense in which he slows things
Speaker 2: down on offense is the one in which, like, oh shit,
Speaker 2: there's six seconds left on the clock. We didn't get
Speaker 2: anything done. Let's throw it to him in an ISO
Speaker 2: from seventeen feet and like he'll get us a way
Speaker 2: better shot, like in a deliberate fashion than we would
Speaker 2: have gotten otherwise, Like, which is a value add to me.
Speaker 2: So I yeah, I I'm sure there's like there's always
Speaker 2: gonna be some growing pains, but like, I just think
Speaker 2: he's the type of player, like he's the ultimate version
Speaker 2: of the scalable the like fun fungibles a pejorative, but
Speaker 2: like a he's portable. He's the ultimate portable player. Wherever
Speaker 2: you put him, there's no it's impossible to have someone
Speaker 2: that's like, well, this is a bad fit just because
Speaker 2: he does everything well.
Speaker 1: And the final thing, I hope we get to see
Speaker 1: lots of just the barn cmb Kawhi front court. I
Speaker 1: know that you don't really necessarily have like a true
Speaker 1: five there. And that's by the way, yaka pertl if
Speaker 1: he's healthy, great, but with Mamu probably leaving you, that's
Speaker 1: gonna have to be like that. I think that's the
Speaker 1: biggest need that they're gonna have at this point, we
Speaker 1: need a different type of big in here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you will see those three on the court
Speaker 2: closing every game that Toronto wants to win.
Speaker 1: Like that that you'll sleep plenty.
Speaker 2: Right like that. That will be your closing front cord.
Speaker 2: And it's nasty, it's really good.
Speaker 1: What is up, fellasickos? You're listening to this episode right
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Speaker 2: again as always for listening and for watching.
Speaker 1: And now back to the show. Up. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2: Well, you have to say they did well here. If
Speaker 2: we think that Toronto gave up like a touch.
Speaker 1: You say it's a nice piece of business. That's what
Speaker 1: I would call.
Speaker 2: I would call it a solid little piece of business.
Speaker 2: If you're not going to extend them, which they weren't,
Speaker 2: which is why this all started. Then they did well
Speaker 2: dealing with what turned out to be a market of one.
Speaker 2: I guess if if Toronto was really the only team
Speaker 2: that Kawhi wanted to go to, I don't care for.
Speaker 1: When there was breaking news, could we just love it
Speaker 1: if you would? Dean Wade, Ladies and gentlemen, four years,
Speaker 1: thirty nine million dollars with the Philadelphia seventy six ers.
Speaker 1: We're still waiting to see if there's any mutual options included.
Speaker 1: That's gonna have to be the new thing. They they
Speaker 1: non taxed. That's like, that's not the taxpayers MLA.
Speaker 2: Wow, I thought I saw the other like, well yesterday,
Speaker 2: maybe someone was speculating he might just get the full
Speaker 2: mid level over four years, just like the four for
Speaker 2: sixty four or something like that.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, so he didn't get that.
Speaker 2: No, that wouldn't be too that'd be too whatever. The
Speaker 2: full mid level would have graded out over four years.
Speaker 1: What are you? What do you? How do you feel
Speaker 1: about Dean Wade in Philly? That's like, defensively, sure does
Speaker 1: he take enough? Like I'm assuming Quentin Grinds and Kelly
Speaker 1: Bridge Unior are both kind of gone now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a pretty good value. I could
Speaker 2: just imagine, though, a playoff series where it's like, he's
Speaker 2: taken one shot in eighty seven postseason minutes so far,
Speaker 2: and everybody's gonna be upset about it. That's just that's
Speaker 2: these one of the lowest usage players of the modern era.
Speaker 2: Just like not an exaggeration, but good defender. And if
Speaker 2: he just shoots every three he has that he's open.
Speaker 2: I think that's a good get, is not? You know,
Speaker 2: anything below the mid level for a guy that you
Speaker 2: could start a playoff game with is pretty good.
Speaker 1: Is it? I just feel I'm not going to predict this.
Speaker 1: I just feel as if we said a lot of
Speaker 1: the same things when they went and got Caleb Martin
Speaker 1: for a similar price point, and look at how that
Speaker 1: turned out.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, well there's always a possibility. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: well the downsides are well understood. Wade just kind of
Speaker 2: is invisible a lot of the time, and and but
Speaker 2: you're not paying them. I think that's that's reasonable. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't have a lot else to say about that.
Speaker 2: That seems like I think it should.
Speaker 1: They could be well. I guess it depends on how
Speaker 1: available Joelle and Pete is. But between him Edgecomb and
Speaker 1: even the way that Paul George played this year, they
Speaker 1: have Dominic Barlow there. They do have some now rangy
Speaker 1: defensive guys which will be good. So I think the
Speaker 1: price point is fine. I'm just you're Kelly R. Junior
Speaker 1: wasn't the best shooter Quentin Grimes and theory was volume.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're hoping le Baron Filon is gonna be able
Speaker 1: to give them real minutes. I'm I don't know what
Speaker 1: this offense is good, Like, it's just all Tyre's Max
Speaker 1: and VJ. Edge Combe need to go kaboom.
Speaker 2: I guess is what if it was like they still
Speaker 2: got some dude that want a m v P one time,
Speaker 2: and they still got some dude that I forget his name.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, let's let's get back to the Clippers here.
Speaker 1: Because you're fine, are they just yelling and interjecting whenever
Speaker 1: it's yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Because I don't have I don't have blue Sky open,
Speaker 2: so all right, it's not it's not auto updating. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I think I think if we agree that the Raptors
Speaker 2: gave up like a little too much maybe for for
Speaker 2: the risk they're taking on, you have to say the
Speaker 2: Clippers did well here. Uh it I think, what do
Speaker 2: they have like nine surplus draft picks first rounders now
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 1: Like that, so they're well, I think I think they'll
Speaker 1: be down to two after that investigation.
Speaker 2: Right, there was a point at which they had a
Speaker 2: huge surplus of draft picks. Yeah, that that might go away.
Speaker 2: But uh, this leaves them with Darius Garland, uh, brandon
Speaker 2: Ingram and like not a lot else like Derek Jones.
Speaker 2: I guess Chris Dunn has got his deal. Geared Cpez
Speaker 2: still there, Lopez is there, He's back. Yeah. I I
Speaker 2: I will be curious to see if they view Ingram
Speaker 2: as someone that they just want to keep or to
Speaker 2: flip and if that's and what that might return them,
Speaker 2: because then you get to view it as like, well,
Speaker 2: they traded Kawhi for all this plus whatever they got
Speaker 2: for brandon Ingram, which might make this look better or worse.
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't really got to have a good
Speaker 2: sense of Ingram's value on the market.
Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna ask, don't you think wasn't he
Speaker 1: kind of treated as nothing more than net neutral in
Speaker 1: this when you look at what else Toronto gave up?
Speaker 1: Or no? Can you argue that? Can you say he wasn't?
Speaker 1: Can you definitively say the two years and eighty million
Speaker 1: left on his contract weren't treated as a net negative?
Speaker 2: Ye? I can't definitively say that. Maybe the swap, maybe
Speaker 2: the twenty seven swaps not involved if if it's if
Speaker 2: it's Barrett and like some other money that I guess
Speaker 2: the Clippers would have preferred. I don't know. No, you
Speaker 2: can't definitively say that. But yeah, I don't know where
Speaker 2: this leaves the Clippers other than to say that this
Speaker 2: is very much they've turned the page, like all the
Speaker 2: like the this previous aras over zoobots has gone, Hardens
Speaker 2: long gone, Paul George is longer gone, Coawhi is out,
Speaker 2: like this is this is just a fresher start, but
Speaker 2: you still have like a pretty high priced lead guard.
Speaker 2: So in Garland, somebody had to say it.
Speaker 1: I guess, well, I was gonna ask, because they don't
Speaker 1: control the rights to their own picks. Could it just
Speaker 1: be we have Ingram, we have some bets, we have
Speaker 1: Garland and we want to be decent, or because now
Speaker 1: you have the swap rights knowing that Toronto's not going
Speaker 1: to be better than okay, see right, do you look
Speaker 1: at I guess my main question is do you look
Speaker 1: at moving Darius Garland now or do you not think
Speaker 1: that his value is high enough for them to be
Speaker 1: traveling down that path.
Speaker 2: I think you look at moving him just because he's
Speaker 2: not someone I would I would rate as like a
Speaker 2: cornerstone piece, right, Like he's an all star type player
Speaker 2: that has some health uncertainty, so and it's not cheap,
Speaker 2: So yeah, I would look at moving him. I do
Speaker 2: think this trade and a lot of others we may discuss,
Speaker 2: are pretty indicative of what the new lottery system is incentivizing,
Speaker 2: because there's a world where they just hang the clippers,
Speaker 2: just hang on ing and they build around him in
Speaker 2: Garland and they try to win forty some games, and
Speaker 2: that's that's not a bad thing anymore if as long
Speaker 2: as you're not, you know, supplementing that with like bad
Speaker 2: contracts elsewhere. So I I I'm not that excited about
Speaker 2: the Clippers, Like this is kind of a team to
Speaker 2: me now, and they were a lot more interesting with Kawhi,
Speaker 2: even if you know, all the health issues he brought
Speaker 2: were part of that picture. But I think it's a
Speaker 2: fine return. I think it's pretty good, especially especially if
Speaker 2: we really do have to concede that, like he was
Speaker 2: only going to Toronto and there wasn't anybody else bidding
Speaker 2: the you know, moving the price up.
Speaker 1: I I think that. I guess I'm just too I know,
Speaker 1: he just had one of the best seasons of his career.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm so fixated on the age, the injury history,
Speaker 1: the fourth coming extension and if they wanted a reset
Speaker 1: and and as you mentioned, finite number of destinations he's
Speaker 1: one a sign like they got all of this. I
Speaker 1: guess all of this is it's just maybe I'm over
Speaker 1: estimating the value those first round picks, maybe is I.
Speaker 2: Mean, like this is also just the Clippers, I mean,
Speaker 2: not the trade specifically, but their unwillingness to extend Kawhi
Speaker 2: is just them saying like he's thirty five, man, Like
Speaker 2: how much like the odds? Like is the health situation
Speaker 2: going to improve going forward? Like why not move now?
Speaker 2: And just gets like what's more likely that we look
Speaker 2: back in a year and say, man, the Clippers, sure
Speaker 2: we're shrewd to get anything for Kawhi because look where
Speaker 2: he's at now and he's you know, he's banged up
Speaker 2: or whatever and not healthy. Or we look at the
Speaker 2: Raptors as like, can you believe he got them like
Speaker 2: to Game seven of the conference finals? Which is more likely?
Speaker 1: Honestly, I mean it's the former. You're right, it's the
Speaker 1: first one. With that being said, though, the contrast between
Speaker 1: the East and the West comes into play here. Then
Speaker 1: Toronto has this innerian in which Kawhi just takes them
Speaker 1: to the conference finals or better that did not exist
Speaker 1: in La as good as the Clippers. You weren't between
Speaker 1: Santa Tony on Okac specifically, but also Denver and Minnesota
Speaker 1: floating around out there. Who knows what the Lakers end
Speaker 1: up doing, So yeah, I think they probably did fine.
Speaker 1: But now that I'm thinking about it, I guess there
Speaker 1: other moves could be made, but they're Remember they were
Speaker 1: all in on this like blank slate in twenty twenty
Speaker 1: seven and now just do you have Garland, you have
Speaker 1: Ingram and that's the ninety million bucks just on your
Speaker 1: books between the two of them. So I'm interested to
Speaker 1: see they don't feel they don't feel done, because right
Speaker 1: now they feel in the middle. I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's where they're trying to be though, if they're looking
Speaker 1: to trade, actually that would have been a great segue
Speaker 1: and say they're looking to trade a guard. I hear
Speaker 1: Portland is collecting them, but I wanted to I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you if should the Spurs have gotten involved
Speaker 1: on Kuhi? If this if you're if this was the cost?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so a couple outright, first's a swap? Who's the
Speaker 2: money going out and who's the brands?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: If it's Noah, you have my attention. I think yes,
Speaker 2: I do, because I think Leonard is more likely to
Speaker 2: put them over the top than a healthy Fox. But
Speaker 2: what I would say is the more I've thought about
Speaker 2: the Spurs, the more I think that like what they
Speaker 2: it would be nice to have, be nice to have
Speaker 2: Kawhi Leonard on the Spurs, or yeah, I know, or
Speaker 2: just somebody that's an upgrade on We've talked about it forever,
Speaker 2: just like a three slash four sized person that is
Speaker 2: as good or better than Fox, just at a different position,
Speaker 2: like flipping, changing, like toggling those knobs. But the more
Speaker 2: I think about it, the more I'm convinced that, like
Speaker 2: the Spurs, what they need is just like organic growth
Speaker 2: and experience and a little bit of improvement more than
Speaker 2: they need like a new guy to come in and
Speaker 2: fix them. They're not like a player away, They're like
Speaker 2: time away to me. So I would be more hesitant
Speaker 2: in one sense to make this move, because if I'm
Speaker 2: the Spurs, I can more confidently than the Raptors say
Speaker 2: we're just a little under baked, and give us some
Speaker 2: time and we'll keep all our assets and win a title,
Speaker 2: and then we'll be really well positioned. But at the
Speaker 2: same time, it's like, you're very close. It would be
Speaker 2: hard for you to be closer to winging a title
Speaker 2: than they were. Go get the piece that you think
Speaker 2: puts you over at the top. I'm receptive to that,
Speaker 2: So yeah, I would go get Kawhi if I could,
Speaker 2: but it's not the worst thing in the world that
Speaker 2: they did, and it's not like some giant missed opportunity.
Speaker 1: To me, I wouldn't have done it because I think
Speaker 1: and I don't agree, whose trade value is higher in
Speaker 1: a vacuum, Darn Fox or brandon Ingram.
Speaker 2: Ooh, Who's I would? I guess you got us? I
Speaker 2: don't know. I don't know. I just should all over
Speaker 2: brandon Ingram. Can I say brandon Ingram still just because
Speaker 2: Fox's deal is so long and.
Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say Fox. And my guess
Speaker 1: would be that maybe people on the league say the
Speaker 1: same thing. And so if he had to be part
Speaker 1: of the matching salary, I still think he's too good
Speaker 1: and I don't view him as anything near a toxic
Speaker 1: asset to have then needed to compensate the Clippers to
Speaker 1: do that. And then if you get into Devin Vassell,
Speaker 1: Keldon Johnson permutations, now I'm just okay Kelden Johnson of
Speaker 1: it all, sure, But without Vaselle, now I'm just wondering
Speaker 1: if we fundamentally altered the team a little bit too much.
Speaker 1: I know that he's technically duplicative. If Dylan Harper is
Speaker 1: gonna make the leap and you have Fox and Steph
Speaker 1: Castle's there, but he is what the Spurs is most
Speaker 1: Who's the Spurs' most bankable shooter? Unless I'm forgetting someone,
Speaker 1: it's probably him or Wemby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe you might be here. I I don't know
Speaker 2: what the league thinks about Fox's deal. I could imagine
Speaker 2: a world where they're just like, he's a good starter,
Speaker 2: that's not going to be an All Star again, and
Speaker 2: he makes fifty million dollars a year, Like that's you're
Speaker 2: paying us to take that on. I could imagine that,
Speaker 2: whereas Ingram is just two more years at like forty
Speaker 2: a pop. Right. I don't know, I don't. I think
Speaker 2: they're both not great great. Uh trade assets, to be honest.
Speaker 1: Jo Morant, Yeah, thirty one thirty the trade details. I
Speaker 1: hope everyone sit down. This is gonna take a while
Speaker 1: for me to get through.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: The Memphis Cruzzies traded Ja Morant to the Portland Trail
Speaker 1: Blazers for Jeremy Grant Chris Murray and that's it.
Speaker 2: Right, and and so now the Blazers, I'm just hold on,
Speaker 2: I'm just getting in my earpiece here that the Blazers
Speaker 2: are gonna give Ja Morant four years and two hundred
Speaker 2: million dollars because that's what you do when you trade
Speaker 2: just bad money for a point guard.
Speaker 1: In the spirit, in the spirit of mutual options. That
Speaker 1: extension would also be illegal.
Speaker 2: Uh ran Oh, sorry, the Wizards somehow are gonna give
Speaker 2: Jo Moran two hundred million. I don't know how that's
Speaker 2: gonna work, but you know they've got to move.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about the Grizzlies first? What did you
Speaker 1: make of them? This was to me, I viewed it
Speaker 1: as they were able to make the decision to rip
Speaker 1: off the band aid and trade John Morant for I
Speaker 1: think Jeremy Grant. I think the pendulum has swung too
Speaker 1: far on it. There's two years left. It's like seventy
Speaker 1: million bucks for someone who shoots threes, can't rebound, can
Speaker 1: still defend, create a shot a little bit, Just sign
Speaker 1: me up. They wouldn't have been able to stomach this
Speaker 1: return for John Morant, or maybe it just would have
Speaker 1: looked a lot worse if they didn't get so much
Speaker 1: for Desmond Bane and even Jaron Jackson Junior, whose return
Speaker 1: I thought could have been higher. But I think there's
Speaker 1: value even if you don't think Morant would have been
Speaker 1: a malcontent. Just hit reset and let the system develop,
Speaker 1: like Cam Boozer is there, Zach Edy is there, Cedric
Speaker 1: Coward is there, Jalen Wells is there. Like, just let
Speaker 1: just let the system develop around your core guys now independent,
Speaker 1: like the John Morant stuff has been happening. I would say,
Speaker 1: in ernest for a year, right, just get escape from
Speaker 1: from like the specter of that speculation. So I'm fine
Speaker 1: with the return. I don't think, oh what if Chris
Speaker 1: Murray shoots the league average three and he still defends.
Speaker 1: But I think it's just you needed to do this
Speaker 1: so that you could move on, and so I'm on
Speaker 1: board with what they old. I honestly think this is
Speaker 1: the type of trade. I know. I just poop pooed
Speaker 1: all over the LaMelo return, but he was the driving
Speaker 1: force of a team that was so good last year.
Speaker 1: John Morant has played in less than one season's worth
Speaker 1: of games over the past three years. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that this is one of those trades. No, it wouldn't
Speaker 1: get you. I think if John Morant goes off in Portland,
Speaker 1: maybe could it get Zach Climban fired? I doubt it,
Speaker 1: but I think that this is a tough when you
Speaker 1: look at how much he meant to that city. He
Speaker 1: was the last kind of remaining remnant of an era
Speaker 1: that was supposed to last longer, be better. I think
Speaker 1: it takes some guts. Maybe it was easier with Cam
Speaker 1: Boozer coming in the door Shore, but I think it
Speaker 1: does take a level of guts to say we're not
Speaker 1: gonna try and rehabilitate his value. We're kind of just
Speaker 1: accepting this and we're gonna move on.
Speaker 2: It was never gonna happen with John Morant in Memphis ever. Again,
Speaker 2: it was done like that. It just too much had
Speaker 2: gone on on the court, off the court, vibes wise,
Speaker 2: you name it like, it was just over and so
Speaker 2: if John Morant does return to form in Portland, which
Speaker 2: I think is highly unlikely for a number of reasons,
Speaker 2: but if he does, it's not impossible. If he does,
Speaker 2: I don't think you get to look back and judge
Speaker 2: the Grizzlies for what they got or for trading him,
Speaker 2: because it was not going to happen. Meant like it
Speaker 2: was over right, So it's not you don't get to say, well,
Speaker 2: look what would have happened like look how good he
Speaker 2: would have been again had he stayed with the Grizzlies.
Speaker 2: It's just it's not reality. I think this is a
Speaker 2: win because Memphis was able to do this without giving
Speaker 2: up an asset, and for a very long time that
Speaker 2: was the expectation, right, that was like the Windhorse quote
Speaker 2: from however many months ago, if like he's viewed as
Speaker 2: a negative asset, that the that the Grizzlies will have
Speaker 2: to attach a pick to to move. Jeremy Grant's contract
Speaker 2: is not good, but it's not like this month's. You know,
Speaker 2: remember like a couple of years ago where where we
Speaker 2: were having the conversation of like gosh, all the bad
Speaker 2: contracts are kind of gone away, like who's the worst,
Speaker 2: and you kind of have to point to Jeremy Grant
Speaker 2: as like, I guess this counts now, but you said it.
Speaker 2: It's two years in like seventy million, like thirty five
Speaker 2: a year for a forward that is like still pretty
Speaker 2: decent at a lot of stuff. That's fine, Like that's
Speaker 2: the cost of getting off of Morant, which is to me,
Speaker 2: way better than giving up a pick, especially if you're
Speaker 2: Memphis and you're starting over, like you want you want
Speaker 2: to hold onto those. So this makes no sense to
Speaker 2: me from Portland's perspective, like roster wise, but I'm fine
Speaker 2: with it on the grizzly side.
Speaker 1: I did trade grades over a bleacher report for this.
Speaker 1: I got slammed for giving the Blazers a D. I
Speaker 1: think this is the value proposition in a vacuum. Jeremy
Speaker 1: Grant and Chris Murray for the idea of John Morant
Speaker 1: is fine. I think you stand to just do more
Speaker 1: damage to your ecosystem, not because of any off court
Speaker 1: issues Jahn Morant might have or his personality. I would
Speaker 1: imagine even if that is an issue, which we don't
Speaker 1: know that it would be, having Damian Lillard in the
Speaker 1: thing is just the panacea for that. This makes zero
Speaker 1: sense from a basketball perspective. Yeah, because now the plan
Speaker 1: is to start Damian Lillard and John Morant. Per reporting,
Speaker 1: that is probably the most flammable backcourt defensively in the NBA.
Speaker 1: Immediately Damian Lillard coming off in achilles injury and John Morant.
Speaker 1: You're also now what you're doing is Damian Lillard could
Speaker 1: play off the ball. We know it, We've seen it,
Speaker 1: will probably see more. I would assume more of it
Speaker 1: in Portland. You looked at Denny Avdia's year where he
Speaker 1: was fringe all NBA and your offense the driving force
Speaker 1: was his drives and decided we're gonna put someone alongside
Speaker 1: him who makes no sense because they need the ball
Speaker 1: in his hands. John can't shoot.
Speaker 2: Is an objectively awful shooter.
Speaker 1: He's he's he has only once in his career rated
Speaker 1: as an above average catch and shoot shot maker. Yeah
Speaker 1: once he doesn't And people talk about, well he might
Speaker 1: be able to cut. He's never cut frequently enough for
Speaker 1: it to map for him to provide off ball value.
Speaker 1: The other thing grant is that his rim pressure and
Speaker 1: free throw attempt rate have both basically been in steady
Speaker 1: declines in two thousand and two, which is a harbinger
Speaker 1: to me of we're not necessarily waiting on the athletic
Speaker 1: decline of John Moran. It's happening, or has already happened.
Speaker 1: So what value is he doesn't defend? Isn't going to
Speaker 1: get to the basket At the same you also, do
Speaker 1: you have enough shooting around him for to do that?
Speaker 1: Isn't going to help you. I already said that defensively.
Speaker 1: And if he doesn't do, what he's supposed to do well.
Speaker 1: Are you banking on him turning into this great shooteries?
Speaker 1: He can be a really prolific passer, but even that
Speaker 1: a lot of it was predicated on the stuff he
Speaker 1: could do with the ball, getting by guys, wreaking havoc
Speaker 1: in the paint, and the other the trickle down effect
Speaker 1: of not just Denny Avdia, what is that you've inherently,
Speaker 1: even if you don't want them around, you have now
Speaker 1: made Shade and Sharp and Scoot Henderson specifically less valuable
Speaker 1: to you and around the league if you were looking
Speaker 1: to move them. I don't know what the plan are
Speaker 1: they gonna play five guards at once. They want to
Speaker 1: keep Drew Holliday because he's a probably a power forward
Speaker 1: now on this team. I don't defensively, I understand it's
Speaker 1: easy to look on paper and say Jeremy Grant and
Speaker 1: Chris Murray for John Morant. Okay, cool? Like what did
Speaker 1: you just do? Get Steve Francis and Stephan Marbury circa
Speaker 1: New York? How that Panna Damian like with a better
Speaker 1: leader because of Damian Lillard? I just you look, I
Speaker 1: see it in the chat bought low on Moran okay,
Speaker 1: but just because you can buy low doesn't mean you should.
Speaker 1: And this is if this works out well for the Blazers,
Speaker 1: everybody bookmark this the receipts. You could aggregate it later.
Speaker 1: This is gonna be a disaster. This is going to
Speaker 1: be an on court disaster. I don't think. I'm not
Speaker 1: talking about off court stuff. I don't see the functional
Speaker 1: fit whatsoever. And I think for even it to squint
Speaker 1: and make it work, you gotta start trading multiple bodies,
Speaker 1: as Scoot doesn't make sense on this team. Shade and
Speaker 1: Sharp no longer makes sense on this And if you,
Speaker 1: by the way, if they try to play Shade and
Speaker 1: Sharp Damian Lower and joh Moran together at any point,
Speaker 1: my god, they did. I have to know it before
Speaker 1: I throw it back to you. They also did get
Speaker 1: a million bucks in cash from Memphis, and that should
Speaker 1: cover Mike and Norre's Mike and Norri's salary for nexton.
Speaker 2: That was That's what this is all about the whole time.
Speaker 1: That's Tom Dundan didn't want to pay Mike and Norrey
Speaker 1: out of pockets. How he traded for John Morant.
Speaker 2: I think the only the only way this this to me,
Speaker 2: I guess defensible, Like I I agree with everything you
Speaker 2: said about just the on court fit, and like what
Speaker 2: this does to the roster is just why Like I
Speaker 2: just don't, I don't get it. The only way you
Speaker 2: can justify this is I think it's just as an
Speaker 2: as a pure asset move. I think Morant rehabilitated, healthy,
Speaker 2: maybe sort of slowing the decline or reversing it is
Speaker 2: value is a valuable player, like not someone you should
Speaker 2: be able to get for Jeremy Grant and Chris Murray
Speaker 2: like that, just you know, there's there's a there is
Speaker 2: a scenario where he is an All Star. Again, I
Speaker 2: don't think it's going to happen, but just I just
Speaker 2: it compromises so much about what you what the Blazers
Speaker 2: had been trying to do, both like both in terms
Speaker 2: of like they brought Lillard back like for vibes and like,
Speaker 2: oh god, this feels great, Like he's gonna he's gonna
Speaker 2: be the adult in the room and right, the defense
Speaker 2: is gonna suck. No, note there's that's the only dead certainty.
Speaker 2: And what they did more recently with like uncovering Ovdia
Speaker 2: as a fringe All NBA guy who needs the ball,
Speaker 2: like this gets in the way of that, This gets
Speaker 2: in the way of scoots development, this gets in the
Speaker 2: way of Sharp's development. Like I just I don't I
Speaker 2: don't understand any aspect of this except that, yes, I
Speaker 2: you have to concede that someone who is Jahn Morant's
Speaker 2: age that has done what he's done should not be
Speaker 2: gettable for Jeremy Grant and Chris Murray. So you just
Speaker 2: do that and you hope everything else just sort of
Speaker 2: sorts itself out, like may you know, like maybe okay,
Speaker 2: if Scoots any good, we'll prove it. Man, Like, now
Speaker 2: it's gonna be tough. You've had a couple of years
Speaker 2: where we sort of put things on a t for
Speaker 2: you and you didn't really seize the moment. Shade and
Speaker 2: Sharp prove it, and if you don't, maybe we move you.
Speaker 2: Like I I guess that's just like, if you want
Speaker 2: to be really harsh about it, that could be the
Speaker 2: Blazer's intention is just let's let these guys compete in camp,
Speaker 2: and the rotation will be what it is, and somebody's
Speaker 2: gonna be on several somebodies will be unhappy. But I
Speaker 2: just I just think that all the downsides you outlined,
Speaker 2: are just they're so pronounced like, I just I don't
Speaker 2: know the d the upside, let's talk about that. The
Speaker 2: upside here is is what like Geomran, it's really great
Speaker 2: and he's still in the way of Ovidia and still
Speaker 2: can't shoot and still can't defend, And I just I
Speaker 2: don't know. This is one of those ones where I
Speaker 2: feel so strongly about it that I'm looking for any
Speaker 2: explanation to to sort of soften what, you know, my
Speaker 2: opinion on how bad of a move it is? Yeah, weird,
Speaker 2: how weird and ill fitting it seems.
Speaker 1: Right, weird weird nail fitting is the perfect way to
Speaker 1: describe it. And Baale trans sixteen says when the Grizzlies
Speaker 1: got a new coach from Rant was used differently. Are
Speaker 1: we referring to when he was pouting about being.
Speaker 2: Of the two coaches that he got fired or you're
Speaker 2: referring to.
Speaker 1: Right, that's the that's wry. And I so I'm open
Speaker 1: to the idea that a change of scenery. I don't
Speaker 1: think John Morant is gonna come in here thinking it's
Speaker 1: his team. Denny Afia is their best player right now,
Speaker 1: and this is Damian. It's not Damian Liller's team. It's
Speaker 1: his freaking city organization. Yeah, it's his organization. Well, we'll
Speaker 1: have to check with Tom Dundan on that one. Who knows.
Speaker 1: So I the other thing that you've done now too,
Speaker 1: You've made it harder to renegotiate and extend Denniafia next
Speaker 1: year because you took on I think like eight million
Speaker 1: bucks in money for twenty seven twenty eight. And now
Speaker 1: you and I I think we share the same thoughts
Speaker 1: on renegotiates and extend and so just build up goodwill
Speaker 1: with the player and pay them. I'm not like typically
Speaker 1: in favor. Now you've just taken to take that option
Speaker 1: off the table is wild to me. I do like
Speaker 1: in theory and this will get into another move. So
Speaker 1: rob Williams three years and forty four million, if jaw
Speaker 1: is jaw, he is a very interesting partner for John
Speaker 1: Moran in transition out of the pick and roll. He
Speaker 1: could decision making the middle of the floor in the
Speaker 1: way that in ways that Donovan Clington can't. And actually
Speaker 1: one of my worries now is like are they gonna
Speaker 1: be in this weird? Is there a chance like Robert
Speaker 1: Williams the third makes more sense for this roster than
Speaker 1: Donovan Klingon. Now, who donovd Klingon is the superior player.
Speaker 1: But when you're looking at the personnel, I mean, there might.
Speaker 2: Be situations where you want what you're talking about offensively
Speaker 2: from Williams. But I would assume Clingon will improve again. Uh,
Speaker 2: and you know, on balance, No, I don't. I don't
Speaker 2: think so. It is the you're you're highlighting an issue,
Speaker 2: like the Blazers have a lot of good and or
Speaker 2: interesting and or promising players tomorrow, Like.
Speaker 1: Do we even mention his name yet? No?
Speaker 2: We have, like they just they there's a lot going
Speaker 2: on here. I mean, this will be one of the
Speaker 2: most I don't know, I just I'm I'm most I'm
Speaker 2: really really interested to see how this team's gonna play,
Speaker 2: what their rotations look like, and maybe this all just
Speaker 2: gets sorted out and they shake up the roster further
Speaker 2: before this offseason's over, and then we don't. It doesn't
Speaker 2: seem quite as strange and thrown together. But at the moment,
Speaker 2: it's just I'm fascinated by what the Blazers think they're
Speaker 2: going to do.
Speaker 1: Uh, dude, is there? I mean, you I think what
Speaker 1: I'm struggling with so much for this before we move
Speaker 1: on is I tried to think, okay, well, what would
Speaker 1: they need for me to feel good about making it work?
Speaker 1: And the problem is, the thing I keep getting caught
Speaker 1: up on is that no, like Joa Moran and Damian Lillard,
Speaker 1: I don't know how to game out the rest of
Speaker 1: the roster. If we're working our way back from that
Speaker 1: and it's not Damian Lillard's fault, I think is pretty scalable.
Speaker 1: My instinct would be that one of them needs to
Speaker 1: come off the bench for it to make any semblance
Speaker 1: of sense and emotionally, John Moran and I think even
Speaker 1: I mean he's coming back for achilles injury, but as
Speaker 1: in terms of fit John Morant coming off that like
Speaker 1: his game at this point might just be yeah, put
Speaker 1: him on the ball and try to let him cook offensively.
Speaker 1: But when you're looking at how much money he's making
Speaker 1: versus what Damian Lillard is making, well it should Damien
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm not under the guys that either of
Speaker 1: them will come off the bench. But that's the that's
Speaker 1: the only it had nothing to me to necessarily do
Speaker 1: with personnel, because this I think you could still say
Speaker 1: they need shooting on this roster still, but I don't
Speaker 1: look at the personnel and say no, like this is
Speaker 1: the problem. They need better or different types of personnel
Speaker 1: to make John Rant and Damian Lillard work. My whole
Speaker 1: thing is, I just don't think those two should be
Speaker 1: play forget starting like they they shouldn't be closing games together.
Speaker 1: Their minutes should be staggered beyond reason. And I don't know,
Speaker 1: I guess it does it help if you think both
Speaker 1: of them are gonna play kind of smaller type roles
Speaker 1: where neither of them are gonna play thirty minutes a game.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Moran's the type of player you just can't play in
Speaker 2: a small role, like because of all the deficiencies you
Speaker 2: listed like that no defense and no shooting and then no,
Speaker 2: you know, just if he's not on the ball, high usage,
Speaker 2: like center of everything, he's not a good player. And
Speaker 2: he hasn't been a good player in that role the
Speaker 2: last couple of years or able to play that role
Speaker 2: the last couple of years because he's not been healthy
Speaker 2: or he's been suspended. So we should move on. I
Speaker 2: think it's pretty clear like where we went here.
Speaker 1: I have to ask you this, I have to do that.
Speaker 1: Who's more likely to be on the I'm gonna set
Speaker 1: the over under at point five of Shane Sharp and
Speaker 1: Scoot Henderson still being on the Blazer's roster open the season.
Speaker 1: Are you taking the over the under?
Speaker 2: Uh? Over? Because that way, all I have to get
Speaker 2: is one of them still there and I win.
Speaker 1: So I must have framed it wrong. Do you think
Speaker 1: one of them? Do you think both of them will
Speaker 1: be off the right?
Speaker 2: I kind of do. I kind of do, because if
Speaker 2: you're willing to trade for Ja Moran and Adam to
Speaker 2: this roster, you're unhinged enough to just go into the
Speaker 2: season with all these guys there.
Speaker 1: The only thing I'm gonna say on that then, is
Speaker 1: you need to play the like it needs to be. Drew,
Speaker 1: Shane Sharp, Scoot Dame and Ja Moran need to play
Speaker 1: together for at least a few We need to see it.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna have all those guys on the same team,
Speaker 1: where did you want to go next? We're kind of
Speaker 1: in free for all mode now, unless.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see what's our What are other? Uh do
Speaker 2: we do?
Speaker 1: Lebron?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, we should probably talk about that. So he
Speaker 2: told the Lakers, I will not be back, thank you
Speaker 2: very much, which to me was just kind of the
Speaker 2: next logical step in the dissolution that's been happening since
Speaker 2: the Luca trade and was accelerated by the no extension
Speaker 2: offer last offseason and now just here we are. This
Speaker 2: had a little bit of a like you can't fire me.
Speaker 2: I quit vibe to it because it was pretty obvious
Speaker 2: that the Lakers were not prioritizing him, And I think
Speaker 2: that's probably got to be a pretty severe ego hit
Speaker 2: to a player that's like kind of had zero ego
Speaker 2: hits throughout his career. So there's that. And like I
Speaker 2: we talked on a previous pod just about how I'm
Speaker 2: all I'm here for the Warriors just getting him, and
Speaker 2: the Anthony Davis thing now seems pretty high in the sky.
Speaker 2: I think it was Mark Spears had reporting that, like
Speaker 2: the Wizards are like cool plans, guys, we're not trading
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis, Like you can't make us.
Speaker 1: It was framed as a dream too, and was that
Speaker 1: the shortest lived dream ever? Because we heard about it
Speaker 1: on Monday and it was dead by Tuesday.
Speaker 2: I dreamed, I dreamed that dream hard for eighteen hours
Speaker 2: or whatever or whatever it was. I I do, I
Speaker 2: do think the Warriors are a real possibility, you know,
Speaker 2: just for all the reasons we've discussed, like he could
Speaker 2: play he well, let's focus on this. Wasn't the wording
Speaker 2: from Lebron's side that he wanted to play meaningful.
Speaker 1: Basketball, meaningful, competitive basketball.
Speaker 2: Those are the exact words that the Warriors and Steph
Speaker 2: have used to describe what they want, like, meaningful basketball
Speaker 2: is a thing Kerr and Curry have said verbatim several
Speaker 2: times over the last last year. So I'm just connecting
Speaker 2: dots over here.
Speaker 1: Bud, that would be That would be a fun bread
Speaker 1: crumb if that ends up happening.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. I've never heard anybody say meaningful
Speaker 2: basketball before the Warriors started talking about it last year,
Speaker 2: as they're like right off into the sunset goal mother mantra,
Speaker 2: and now Lebron's just happening to say meaning or I
Speaker 2: guess Rich Paul probably want to say it, but I don't.
Speaker 1: Meaningful, meaningful would be open to interpretation, but competitive implies contention,
Speaker 1: which is also him kind of flaming the Lakers.
Speaker 2: No, that is that that's true too. Which is just
Speaker 2: wrong because there's every chance the Lakers could be really
Speaker 2: good next year.
Speaker 1: But it's just what I will The one thing I
Speaker 1: will say is if you come I didn't know about
Speaker 1: the Warriors, breadcrumb, and I'm not saying they wouldn't be good.
Speaker 1: But if you come out and say I want to
Speaker 1: play meaningful, competitive basketball, and the answer to that is
Speaker 1: signing with a team that has exclusively over the age
Speaker 1: of thirty five players or you're going to play for
Speaker 1: James Harden's team, I have questions.
Speaker 2: Right. Well, well, then we circle back to the he uh.
Speaker 2: I guess it was Windhorse or somebody said it's not
Speaker 2: about money, it's about happiness. And then then you.
Speaker 1: Can also the report he will consider any team. I
Speaker 1: imagine that exempts the Kings, I take.
Speaker 2: I take a little bit of issue with that. I
Speaker 2: don't think he's going on a wa I want to
Speaker 2: play with a D go to the Wizards, proven man,
Speaker 2: let's see it. Uh. I think the Warriors are realistic.
Speaker 2: I think the Calves are realistic. I don't know if
Speaker 2: I would extend that to Miami because because in both
Speaker 2: like the Warriors can give him the mid level and
Speaker 2: I would imagine that that is a little bit of
Speaker 2: a priority, Like does he want to play for the minimum?
Speaker 2: I know he's got all the money he could ever spend,
Speaker 2: but like that, that's one of those things where I
Speaker 2: don't know, let me ask you because I'm rambling and
Speaker 2: I'm I'm admittedly like, I'm not going to be rational
Speaker 2: about this. If you're handicapping it, just who's the favorite
Speaker 2: in your mind right now?
Speaker 1: Oh well, now that you said the meaningful breadcrumb, I
Speaker 1: think it's the Warriors. So the problem with the Calves
Speaker 1: right now, we're not working with the mid level. And
Speaker 1: I wanted to stick on this like rumor tidbit from
Speaker 1: Brian Windhorst for a minute. He mentioned he had the
Speaker 1: mic drop on ESPN about what if Lebron and Jalen
Speaker 1: Brown both end up in Cleveland and that, I mean
Speaker 1: the sheer machinations of that happening. So without James Harden
Speaker 1: on the books right now, like James Harden's zero, So
Speaker 1: he opted out of the mutual option that they had.
Speaker 1: They have twenty they because if you're getting Jalen brewn
Speaker 1: or if you're giving Lebron the non tax mle, you're
Speaker 1: hard capped. At the first Apron. If you're taking more
Speaker 1: money back into trade, you're hard kepped. At the first Apron.
Speaker 1: They have twenty five million dollars in first Apron room
Speaker 1: without James Harden. So if you were to trade for
Speaker 1: Jalen Brown while resigning James Harden and then signing Lebron James,
Speaker 1: we're talking about like, that's one hundred million dollars basically,
Speaker 1: so you need to do that while clearing money, and
Speaker 1: even if Lebron is willing to accept the minimum. So
Speaker 1: let's just say Bron's wanting to accept the minimum. So
Speaker 1: now you're like hard kept. Let's say you could be
Speaker 1: hard kept at the second Apron. I don't I just
Speaker 1: what are the machinations of that look looked like? Because
Speaker 1: they are. So there's second Apron room again, No James
Speaker 1: Harden a little bit under forty million bucks about thirty
Speaker 1: five plus million dollars. I just so mobile goes out.
Speaker 1: But you basically need to when you're factoring James Harden's
Speaker 1: is he taking a huge discount? Is that's how because
Speaker 1: James Harden and I don't this isn't pejorative for my end.
Speaker 1: He's never struck me as someone who would take any
Speaker 1: less than he needs to. He wants to lock up
Speaker 1: as much long term money as possible, and he's certainly
Speaker 1: not gonna believe a front office that tells him we'll
Speaker 1: take care of you on the back end, because Darryl
Speaker 1: Morey is a liar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who hurts you, James? Sorry, buddy, Yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: see that one.
Speaker 1: Would you trade though, Evan Mobley for Jalen Brown is
Speaker 1: the question that's like, well.
Speaker 2: We we wouldn't trade him for Giannis, right, isn't that
Speaker 2: where we landed? So can you trade him for Jalen Brown?
Speaker 2: Is Jalen Brown a better value than Yannis?
Speaker 1: Well? What if it means Lebron is coming? What if that's.
Speaker 2: The Paul George situation?
Speaker 1: Evin Mobley and stuff for Jalen Brown and Lebron? James, Basically,
Speaker 1: I might, I might?
Speaker 2: I think. So then you're what you're looking at is
Speaker 2: hardened back in this hypothetical. So it's like Harden Mitchell,
Speaker 2: Jalen Brown, Lebron and Jared Allen.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, Dean.
Speaker 2: Wade, No, Dean Wade. Sorry, you know you don't get
Speaker 2: him back at the very least that gets you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: ke On ellis is gone, he's paid now, he's got
Speaker 2: a mutual option, he's living living life.
Speaker 1: Mutual auditions.
Speaker 2: They're in the same common station Toronto is now or
Speaker 2: maybe they. But the thing is maybe they already are,
Speaker 2: you know as like, yeah they could, you know, they could,
Speaker 2: they could go on a run, they could be I
Speaker 2: do think it's a little harder. That's a harder self
Speaker 2: for Cleveland because this core has kind of been there
Speaker 2: for a little bit and just they haven't put it together.
Speaker 2: So there's some case to be made for like, well
Speaker 2: we changed it a little bit, like maybe we're not
Speaker 2: better on like on balance, but we're different and that's enough,
Speaker 2: you know, a little bit of the knicks like Thibodeau
Speaker 2: to Mike Brown theory, which paid off big time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I would think about it. I might
Speaker 2: just want to hold Onto mobile because he's kind of
Speaker 2: your ticket out of like if and when I wouldn't
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 1: I could. I'm sorry. Lebron and Jalen Brown and James
Speaker 1: Hard and Don Mitchell is just too much of a
Speaker 1: combustible cocktail in so many different ways for me.
Speaker 2: Your shooting's pretty bad too. I mean, I like Brown,
Speaker 2: your window two years back, yesterday, it might have just closed.
Speaker 2: So that's the thing with the Warriors, is like their
Speaker 2: windows already closed and this is just for fun. So
Speaker 2: so like the stakes are so low.
Speaker 1: I think the Warriors should probably be viewed as the
Speaker 1: favorites at this point, because I don't think I can't
Speaker 1: see Lebron signing for the minimum, which is basically what
Speaker 1: it would take to get him back in Cleveland. At
Speaker 1: this point, maybe they could game it with the mini
Speaker 1: MLA's they need to shed salary if they want to
Speaker 1: give him the tax MLA. And that just seems like,
Speaker 1: who are you just dumping Max Struce so that you
Speaker 1: could replace him with Lebron. I guess in theory that's
Speaker 1: a fine proposition to make, and we don't know how
Speaker 1: much less James Harden's willing to take. I'm all in
Speaker 1: on the Warriors now, mostly because of what you said
Speaker 1: about the breadcrumbs, but I did want to ask you,
Speaker 1: let's remove the Cavaliers and the Warriors from the equation.
Speaker 1: Let's also let's even remove money from the equation and
Speaker 1: take Lebron at his or Rich Paul's word, where money
Speaker 1: isn't important. He just wants to win. A title. Where
Speaker 1: should he sign next year? None, can't be Oklahoma City
Speaker 1: just because that's not happened. They wouldn't do it.
Speaker 2: Great, there's one answer, it's the Spur.
Speaker 1: There's two.
Speaker 2: What's the Knicks? Yeah, can fit him?
Speaker 1: Well? No, I said Money's it would have to be
Speaker 1: a minimum, So money is not like which the Spurs
Speaker 1: would have the mid level, which is why they are
Speaker 1: more interesting is they could give him the mid level.
Speaker 2: I mean, but would you Let's okay, you get Lebron,
Speaker 2: but you have to you have to erase Modio Wara's
Speaker 2: new deal from existence. Are you doing it?
Speaker 1: No, He's just like Evan Mobley as Cleveland's out right, and.
Speaker 2: He's on a way cheaper deal than Mobiley, So in
Speaker 2: a lot of ways, he's the superior asset. Let's just
Speaker 2: leave it there.
Speaker 1: I don't think he could bring himself to go to
Speaker 1: the team that just won the title. But I actually
Speaker 1: think that that makes in terms of like having a
Speaker 1: problem if if you threw the money is the problem.
Speaker 1: But in terms of role and title shot, I actually
Speaker 1: think the Knicks are the best fit because they still
Speaker 1: don't necessarily have a traditional second best ball hand learn
Speaker 1: in San Antonio. You're trying to get reps for Fox
Speaker 1: and Dylan Harper and Stephan Castle.
Speaker 2: He's like he's spotted up in the corner a lot
Speaker 2: in San Antonio in my mind, and that's not necessarily
Speaker 2: the best use use of him. But I mean I
Speaker 2: would I'd be okay with what I'd be I'd be interested.
Speaker 2: I'd like to see how that looked. Maybe he would
Speaker 2: figure out. Maybe he'd be the one to tell women, Yama,
Speaker 2: here's what you should do on offense. That could be interesting.
Speaker 1: Uh. And by the way, this is another Summer mentioned
Speaker 1: that Chad is Lebron holding up free agency again.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, he is right, because it's like he knows
Speaker 2: what his options are at this point. It's just it
Speaker 2: does feel like because I'm impatient and I just want
Speaker 2: him to be on Golden State now so I can
Speaker 2: started talking myself into it and enjoying it, Like I
Speaker 2: think this is gonna drag out? Doesn't it feel like?
Speaker 1: This is?
Speaker 2: Like? Why is this over already?
Speaker 1: If he breaks, I don't have July fourth plans because
Speaker 1: I have reactive dogs and so we're I'm on like
Speaker 1: fireworks duty. But if he does the if he will
Speaker 1: be in the bunker. If he does the jely, I
Speaker 1: ain't gonna be happy. I'm not gonna be like this
Speaker 1: is I I'll allow it if he goes somewhere where
Speaker 1: it was purely like it's it's sick. Oh shit, where
Speaker 1: did he just go to Minnesota? Oh he's in Detroit,
Speaker 1: that Lebron. You're allowed to sign whenever you want, if
Speaker 1: you go to a detent, if it's Golden State, if
Speaker 1: it's San Antonio, if it's Cleveland, even if it's my Knicks.
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear it. You needs to happen
Speaker 1: before I'm in the bunker, or needs to happen after.
Speaker 1: So I really wish he's not going to But I
Speaker 1: wish that he would go to just one of the
Speaker 1: off the beaten path team.
Speaker 2: It would be Actually don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much sense Minnesota makes because I
Speaker 1: think that he might murder one of Rudy Gobert, LaMelo
Speaker 1: or Anthony Edwards. But Detroit, my god, that's that's a
Speaker 1: perfect thing. Or just Denver to see the basketball IQ
Speaker 1: with him and Jokic.
Speaker 2: I'm just annoyed. You don't want me to be happy.
Speaker 2: There's only one. It's just the Warriors, and let's get
Speaker 2: it done and move on. That's that's all. That's the
Speaker 2: only thing.
Speaker 1: Okay, if it's not the Warriors, give me a team
Speaker 1: that you Yeah, I already said the Spurs.
Speaker 2: I I'm easy, I'm simple that way.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say. I wanted to beat Detroit or Minnesota
Speaker 1: if there, if there was an off the beaten path team, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Charlotte probably, I think that's yeah, Yeah, there don't sleep
Speaker 1: on them, you want to do I guess they're kind
Speaker 1: of in like the lightning round here.
Speaker 2: Is there anything other? Well, we should probably hit on
Speaker 2: the non transactions of of Duran and Kessler.
Speaker 1: Just that's getting a little awkward.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Mark Spears had the quote, I tweeted, the
Speaker 2: Detroit Pistons have offered what the franchise believes is the
Speaker 2: most lucrative contract possible for their all star restricted free
Speaker 2: agent Jalen Duran. That's worded kind of funny. It's what
Speaker 2: they believe is the most that they're actual Max is
Speaker 2: involved here, that's not what they believe. Uh, they are
Speaker 2: not interested in any sign and trade deals and will
Speaker 2: match any potential offer sheet he signs. Yeah, that's how
Speaker 2: this was always gonna end, Like that's what restricts agents does.
Speaker 2: So like all this like, oh they're taking meetings, cool,
Speaker 2: do you understand what matching rights are? Like, Okay, sign
Speaker 2: him mystery teams? Same thing with Walker Kessler.
Speaker 1: The Pacers for Lebron, I sure, great, Poul Robert great Pool.
Speaker 2: Uh, Like I don't so so I guess I'm I
Speaker 2: don't think there's a lot to discuss here with either
Speaker 2: Kessler or Duran. We're talking Durhan now, but it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: this was this, this is what was gonna happen. They
Speaker 2: all they ever had to do was be ready to
Speaker 2: pay the most another team could pay, which is like
Speaker 2: four and one seventy something, right or one eighty something.
Speaker 2: That's all it was ever gonna cost at most, And
Speaker 2: until that offer comes in, they can continue to hope
Speaker 2: it's gonna be even less than that. Like there's just
Speaker 2: it's not it's not it's four.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't who's more. I think Duran's more likely
Speaker 1: to get the four for one seventy seven point three
Speaker 1: from a team. Yeah, the Lakers. The Lakers are looming
Speaker 1: out there, like the Nets could still use a big
Speaker 1: a little bit, right, Like they have Dayron Sharp, but
Speaker 1: that's it. Chicago is probably out of it because they
Speaker 1: do have Claxton.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's That's the other thing is there's not like this,
Speaker 2: there's the line isn't around the block for either of
Speaker 2: these guys. There's like two teams that are actual possibilities.
Speaker 1: Do you think Detroit is being shortsighted by refusing to
Speaker 1: engage in sign and trade discussions? Probably not. They did.
Speaker 1: They did cost themselves, I will say a little bit
Speaker 1: of leverage by trading Isaiah Stewart because they kind of
Speaker 1: I guess they meant to telegraph, oh, we're gonna match
Speaker 1: whatever offer, and maybe it was meant to scare away teams.
Speaker 1: But also they're now in a position to where it's, well,
Speaker 1: you better hope, like if you don't want to pay
Speaker 1: him the four years, if that's not what they're offers for,
Speaker 1: if they haven't given him four years one hundred and
Speaker 1: seventy seven point three, you're kind of like, we better
Speaker 1: you have to match it if he does get it,
Speaker 1: because what your alternative is Paul Reid and hopes and dreams.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, I mean, so the obvious downside here that
Speaker 2: gets cited all the time and situations like this, Oh,
Speaker 2: you're pissing them off, like you're you're you're ruining this
Speaker 2: relationship by not just lavishing him with two hundred you know,
Speaker 2: like seventy million dollars or eighty million dollars more than
Speaker 2: any other team could pay him. You're not You're not
Speaker 2: taking care of your guys, Like that's going to cause resentment. No,
Speaker 2: it's not like everybody understands how restricted free agency works.
Speaker 2: Nobody's ever been pissed off to get one hundred and
Speaker 2: seventy seven million dollars, which especially if you know that
Speaker 2: no one else could have given you more. And instead
Speaker 2: of like being boxed into some like made up sign
Speaker 2: and trade scenario if there's other teams that want him,
Speaker 2: sign him to the deal and trade him later, like
Speaker 2: if that's his market value, which would like, if he
Speaker 2: signs an offer sheet, his market value has just been established,
Speaker 2: so match it and then move him when you feel
Speaker 2: like you need to. I don't know it's an oversimplification,
Speaker 2: but I just like restricted free agency is incredibly powerful
Speaker 2: and team friendly, and it's not weird to me at
Speaker 2: all that the Jazz and the Pistons are doing things
Speaker 2: this way.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's weird they're doing it this way,
Speaker 1: but it shouldn't there is it feels as if something
Speaker 1: weird is going on in Detroit because of what they've
Speaker 1: already done. Isaiah Stewart's gone. God, not really why.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think like you, I guess you could
Speaker 2: look at the Stewart stuff as like, well, it's a
Speaker 2: leverage play one way or the other. But isn't it
Speaker 2: just as likely that they decided, well, we know we're
Speaker 2: going to get durned back because we have the matching rights,
Speaker 2: and we'd rather have a good shooter basically filling in
Speaker 2: that roster slot for less money. And you know, it
Speaker 2: was two seconds coming in, two seconds going out. We
Speaker 2: turned Stewart into Isaiah Joe.
Speaker 1: And you know, now you're operating under the assumption that
Speaker 1: all you needed to do this offseason was go from
Speaker 1: Isaiah Stewart to Isaiah Joe.
Speaker 2: Is my point, not necessarily because you can still make
Speaker 2: another trade.
Speaker 1: But that's my point is that this holds up. This
Speaker 1: is holding up the Tobias Harris. Is he going to
Speaker 1: get signed by someone else? The reports that he's not
Speaker 1: going to be back. He was important to them last year,
Speaker 1: so Again, I'm not saying that they need to rush
Speaker 1: into anything, but I just find that if there was
Speaker 1: this disconnect between them and Jail and Duran, it's this
Speaker 1: is holding up other business for them. And I would argue,
Speaker 1: even if they've resigned Jalen Duran right now, if the
Speaker 1: moves like resigning Kevin hurd Er, getting Isaiah Jones, keeping
Speaker 1: Jail on Duran, if that's the and losing beefs to like,
Speaker 1: if that's the meat and potatoes of your off season,
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a good off season for the
Speaker 1: the Pistons had and for what they needed.
Speaker 2: That would be disappointing. I just I guess I don't
Speaker 2: see Duran the Durhaan thing as precluding the type of
Speaker 2: the Michael Porter Junior trade or whatever, because can't they
Speaker 2: still with Duncan Robinson and some other matching salary just
Speaker 2: get to what it would take and throw the picks
Speaker 2: in there to go get Porter Junior, who whatever, Trey
Speaker 2: Murphy what not that they can necessarily get those guys,
Speaker 2: But like, what what what is? Why is Duran's restrict
Speaker 2: your free agency getting in the way of that type
Speaker 2: of move being made.
Speaker 1: You need to know so the number isn't going to
Speaker 1: impact your transactions now because of his cap hold, like
Speaker 1: that could be what you're working with. But you do
Speaker 1: to kind of understand, well, what is your salary structure
Speaker 1: going to be after the fact, like once then when
Speaker 1: you're actually looking at the full freight of the roster
Speaker 1: with Jalen during at forty something million dollars a year
Speaker 1: or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah not I but if you think you can move
Speaker 2: Joe or Hurder or whoever else so these mid tier
Speaker 2: salaries they've got, or you turn a star Thompson into
Speaker 2: something else, there are good there will be ways to
Speaker 2: kind of get if you're worried about aprons, I guess
Speaker 2: there there'll be ways to to get things, how you know,
Speaker 2: more snugly fit into the payroll band you want to
Speaker 2: be in. I think I don't know. I guess I'm
Speaker 2: not seeing I take your point that it feels well.
Speaker 2: What we definitely agree on is like you can't just
Speaker 2: bring Herder back and sign Joe and think you've done enough,
Speaker 2: right like that that is it.
Speaker 1: Is it's objectively funny that Kevin Herder is just the
Speaker 1: second move that they made of the offseason.
Speaker 2: Was what did you think about that because because my
Speaker 2: immediate reaction was like, oh my god, why did anybody
Speaker 2: who was giving him nine a year?
Speaker 1: But then I need to see if like is there
Speaker 1: are the final two years non guaranteed? Those details still
Speaker 1: don't seem to like if that's a fully guaranteed eel,
Speaker 1: that's curious at best.
Speaker 2: So, you know, I was he hasn't been above the
Speaker 2: league average from three since like twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: Like he doesn't like the beam season, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so like he was hurt I think in the playoffs,
Speaker 2: and that's part of the reason he didn't play very much.
Speaker 2: But like, boy, the Pistons better be real sure that
Speaker 2: that was it and the past. The fact that he
Speaker 2: hasn't been a great shooter over the last several seasons
Speaker 2: is like, I don't know how you could convince yourself
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 1: The so quickly. On the Walker Kestler front, what I
Speaker 1: find interesting is that Tony Jones of The Athletic reports
Speaker 1: that he has multiple thirty plus million dollar offers. One
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure what, like how far apart of
Speaker 1: didn't the Jazz offer him four and one forty or
Speaker 1: was it five and one forty? Was it five.
Speaker 2: Now I can't remember. I think it was. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: I know it was one forty, but I couldn't tell
Speaker 2: you if it was if it was uh four or
Speaker 2: five years.
Speaker 1: So like, because if it if it's five and one,
Speaker 1: even if it was five and one forty, what are
Speaker 1: they two million dollars a year apart? Basically it feels
Speaker 1: like a kind of a weird line to draw. But
Speaker 1: my actual five all right, it's five and one forty,
Speaker 1: So that makes that does make uh what you like
Speaker 1: jazz as four for one twenty, which is the same
Speaker 1: thing as five for all close to I might My
Speaker 1: thing is if you're paying a big this year, So
Speaker 1: if we're like, who would you rather pay that type
Speaker 1: of money to jail on Duran or Walker Kessler?
Speaker 2: So if I could get Kessler, let's take four for
Speaker 2: one twenty. I think I would rather do that than
Speaker 2: four for one seventy seven for Duran. And I feel, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't think I would definitely rather give Kesler four
Speaker 2: one twenty than Duran four one seventy seven. I think,
Speaker 2: particularly like if I'm for the Lakers, because I think
Speaker 2: it's just you could make that. I mean, Duran's been
Speaker 2: made an All NBA team. Kesler's almost certainly never going
Speaker 2: to do that. But Kessler is a player that you're
Speaker 2: asking to do a couple things exceptionally well, and he's
Speaker 2: proven beyond a shadow of doubt that he can do
Speaker 2: those things. Just be your rim protector, block shots, rebound,
Speaker 2: offensive rebound. That's it. We don't need you to expand
Speaker 2: your offensive game to justify a superstar salary. Durren's different, Like,
Speaker 2: part of the theory of Duran is that he he
Speaker 2: was for a lot of the year a second option
Speaker 2: on a really good team and maybe could be again,
Speaker 2: Like but blew it in the playoffs. Like I'm just
Speaker 2: more comfortable paying a guy I know exactly what I'm
Speaker 2: gonna get and the role isn't doesn't need to be
Speaker 2: massive in Kessler. What do you Where do you fall
Speaker 2: on that?
Speaker 1: I think I'm with you the money being what it is.
Speaker 1: But when you're looking at what Kesler is pushing for,
Speaker 1: do you think that Jalen Duran is still the higher
Speaker 1: upside big of the twos where if you had to
Speaker 1: make let's say you had to make the forty million
Speaker 1: dollars a year gamble versus thirty million dollars a year.
Speaker 1: Are you still taking Kessler? There's the bankability there, but
Speaker 1: I don't know what his I hate the word upside
Speaker 1: is so just o. Yeah, he's in ambiguous, but you
Speaker 1: get what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I'm honest. I'm not comfortable with either of
Speaker 2: them at that at that price point for different reasons.
Speaker 2: I think because Kessler, like you just can't play like
Speaker 2: effectively a good role playing center that kind of money.
Speaker 2: I guess Gobert is kind of the exception, Like I
Speaker 2: just I don't think he's gonna be a four time
Speaker 2: Defensive Player of the Year and and just prove for
Speaker 2: a decade that he's a defense under himself kind of player.
Speaker 2: Because it's like over the last several years, like Gobert
Speaker 2: is the only guy like that basically of that player type. Duran,
Speaker 2: I do you Durran feels a little fool's goldie to me,
Speaker 2: where it's like you can't build a defense around, like
Speaker 2: he's not the reason your defense is good. He doesn't stretch,
Speaker 2: he's not switchable, like he's sort of he's kind of
Speaker 2: a different version of the type of like he needs
Speaker 2: the ball to be. I don't know, I just I
Speaker 2: don't think the I don't think he's the type of
Speaker 2: player that you can pay that much money like you
Speaker 2: get into like a Sabonus type or something like that,
Speaker 2: where it's like, my god, you can't. You just can't
Speaker 2: make him a highly paid core piece of your operation.
Speaker 1: You can.
Speaker 2: Again, that's probably too harsh because the Pistons won sixty
Speaker 2: games and he had a ton to do with it.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's too harsh when you look at
Speaker 1: what happened in the playoffs.
Speaker 2: That's the thing that that's the most recent thing we saw,
Speaker 2: and that's real scary if you're talking about giving him
Speaker 2: forty million a year.
Speaker 1: Right, and it's just the whole point is it? Now?
Speaker 1: He maybe he hasn't had a ton of opportunities, but
Speaker 1: if your offense from the regular season isn't going to
Speaker 1: scale to your offense in the playoffs, that's going to
Speaker 1: be an issue. And it's right now he's going into
Speaker 1: year five. This isn't just some raw prospect anymore. I
Speaker 1: think what appeals to me is just someone who we
Speaker 1: saw it when Kaide was injured during the regular season.
Speaker 1: We saw it in It wasn't even flickers and flashes
Speaker 1: but these just extended stretches. You give me someone who
Speaker 1: can sometimes handle the ball like him or just generate
Speaker 1: his own shot with that size is a really big deal.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I would. I am with you in the
Speaker 1: sense that of the money that's being reported, I don't
Speaker 1: know what the money needs to get to. Even if
Speaker 1: it was a max. If you had to pay one
Speaker 1: of the max money, you might be able to talk
Speaker 1: me into Jalen Duran.
Speaker 2: I think that's really fair. You just can't do it
Speaker 2: for either of them. If Jalen Duran had sprained his
Speaker 2: ankle on the last day of the regular season and
Speaker 2: not played in the playoffs, would his earning potentially be
Speaker 2: like fifty million dollars higher than it is right now.
Speaker 2: Like if he just hadn't played in the playoffs at all,
Speaker 2: it would dude, he'd be a second team he's all
Speaker 2: NBA player. That all we'd think is that guy was
Speaker 2: the second best sixty one team young, he's athletic, he's awesome.
Speaker 2: We would be totally like if not for the postseason,
Speaker 2: he I would be like shocked if he didn't get
Speaker 2: two hundred million dollars.
Speaker 1: The other thing that's probably at play here by the
Speaker 1: way because you mentioned that number. He was Supermax eligible,
Speaker 1: and you probably don't want to become the first player
Speaker 1: who's super Max eligible doesn't get a version with a
Speaker 1: fifth year. Like remember Rudy the deal he signed with
Speaker 1: the Jazz was no, he didn't get the super max,
Speaker 1: but he got this mega five year deal. And it
Speaker 1: seems as if the Pistons, but this is just my
Speaker 1: read on the situation, are no, Like there's not even
Speaker 1: a fifth year, and we don't they probably even want
Speaker 1: to give him the four year max that another team
Speaker 1: could give him. And regular Or says in the head
Speaker 1: teams with team teams with cheap centers have a huge
Speaker 1: advantage I think for the most part when you're dealing
Speaker 1: with centers that have these fundamental flaws or limitations. Jale Durham,
Speaker 1: Walker Kessler both fall into that. When you look at
Speaker 1: what Kesler can do on offense or what Jalen Duran
Speaker 1: can do. Probably I mean I said on offense, I
Speaker 1: like you, I have concerns about Jalen Dern at both
Speaker 1: ends of the floor, and with Walker Kesler, I've become
Speaker 1: very fixated on what does he take away from you
Speaker 1: offensively in certain matchups? And so that I think kind
Speaker 1: of just proves who the more valuable player is at
Speaker 1: this point. But it's tough. I want to I do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean by design too. I wanted to ask you
Speaker 1: about christophs Porzingis's deal with the Warriors, two years, forty
Speaker 1: million with a player option. How did you feel about
Speaker 1: where that ended up? How do you feel about that
Speaker 1: price point you mentioned at the was it on air?
Speaker 1: Off air? But he could he could be traded immediately
Speaker 1: because the price of the extension of the flexibility is open.
Speaker 1: They rolled over to Jonathan comingus loot to a more
Speaker 1: useful player.
Speaker 2: By the way, I'm sorry, who's got a new deal?
Speaker 2: Who's the who's the better asset?
Speaker 1: Right here? Here's the number of comments we got when
Speaker 1: we were talk about Jonathan Mminga on our Hawks look
Speaker 1: Ahead were just like, you don't watch like Johnathan Cominga
Speaker 1: is so crucial to this team? Yeah, he was so crucial.
Speaker 1: They declined st option and gave Jock Landelle to.
Speaker 2: Anybody come to me and say you don't watch Jonathan Kaminge.
Speaker 2: Do you know how much YouTube tape I used to crush, Like,
Speaker 2: I come, that's the that's the most wrong criticism we've
Speaker 2: ever faced, like by a factor of a thousand. I
Speaker 2: don't watch Jonathan Kaminga. I watched entirely too much Jonathan Kaminga.
Speaker 2: That's why I thought he was gonna be so great
Speaker 2: and then thought he was gonna be terrible, and then
Speaker 2: did that six hundred times over his entire career. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's ridiculous. If let me let me to those of
Speaker 2: you who are new to the Jonathan Cominga experience, what
Speaker 2: you watched is it where you get some twenty point
Speaker 2: games and you think he's incredible and then you realize, oh,
Speaker 2: he's actually not a helpful player and doesn't fit on
Speaker 2: a winning team that plays the right way. So that's
Speaker 2: where we are. Porzingis structured as an extension, so he's
Speaker 2: immediately tradable. Yeah, twenty. I was kind of hoping more
Speaker 2: towards like fifteen. But what's five million dollars? I guess
Speaker 2: you had talked me into. Well, let's let's pump his
Speaker 2: number up. Make it a one year deal. Swapping for
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis and I just I I flowed.
Speaker 1: I got you Anthony Davis and Lebron while keeping Jimmy Butler.
Speaker 1: You're welcome I.
Speaker 2: Floated the entire day. My feet didn't touch the ground
Speaker 2: after that, So I'm a little disappointed in light of
Speaker 2: where my hopes were. I would just say, whatever else
Speaker 2: happens with the Warriors, Porzingis is kind of the ideal
Speaker 2: fit with Draymond Green. When he signs for Lesson comes back.
Speaker 1: That's happen. What do you expect that to be now?
Speaker 2: Fifteen to twenty? I would guess for Draymond, I think
Speaker 2: if they get Lebron, I would imagine he's good. They'll
Speaker 2: both be around the Lebron WI get the mid level.
Speaker 2: Draymond'll be closer with last twenty dollar more, just as
Speaker 2: a flex facilitated this whole thing. Yeah, but Porzingis, I
Speaker 2: think all the health and rely and availability stuff is
Speaker 2: still just undeniable. So there's a chance this is twenty
Speaker 2: million in dead money. Plus he got a player option,
Speaker 2: which I guess that's just what it was going to cost.
Speaker 1: But three million so per per uh track? Spot? How
Speaker 1: how is it pronounced? Grants?
Speaker 2: I do in my brain. In my brain, I say
Speaker 2: SPO track, But I feel like you and others have said,
Speaker 2: like spa track, which spot track? Oh not an a?
Speaker 2: So I don't like SPA track. I say spow track
Speaker 2: in my head.
Speaker 1: I talked to Keith Smith all the time and I
Speaker 1: still just can never pin that. I ask him every
Speaker 1: year when he's on the show. But SPA track has
Speaker 1: it at three million partially guaranteed for show. It's like
Speaker 1: it's like a mutual option. I think you'll call it.
Speaker 2: Some would say no, that I forgot about that. Uh yeah,
Speaker 2: that makes me like it a little more.
Speaker 1: Yes, his trade value, I think too functionally is an
Speaker 1: expiring contract really to some teams.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it's fine. I think I think
Speaker 2: it's fine to very good, depending on how much he
Speaker 2: actually plays. The fit's great, Like he just makes sense.
Speaker 1: Do you kind of feel as if there was the
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis sort of sheen for a minute here, But
Speaker 1: it does kind of feel as if we're headed towards
Speaker 1: another offseason of Okay, the Warriors had their early summer
Speaker 1: link to Big Name X. Nothing came of it. We're
Speaker 1: just running it back and if the lebron thing doesn't
Speaker 1: pan out, it's will be interesting when when we're healthy,
Speaker 1: which will be hardly ever, especially when you consider Jimmy
Speaker 1: Butler won't be back till twenty twenty late. What there's
Speaker 1: no I guess my point is there's probably nothing that
Speaker 1: could happen this offseason that would get them thinking, well,
Speaker 1: we need to make a real aggressive move. And I
Speaker 1: think you could argue, is there anything that could happen
Speaker 1: in the regular season, because if they're good enough to
Speaker 1: where you say, oh, let's go make an aggressive move,
Speaker 1: they might say, well, why look how good we are
Speaker 1: right now?
Speaker 2: Would yeah, I mean, not a lot's changed in the
Speaker 2: last several years. You said it, like they're they get
Speaker 2: linked to somebody and then it doesn't happen, and I
Speaker 2: mean they got Butler. So the problem is, like this
Speaker 2: all started when wait a minute, they're gonna get Kevin Durant,
Speaker 2: Like no, come on, like that's impossible. They just won
Speaker 2: the most games. Anyone's that like that can't And then
Speaker 2: it happened. And so now anytime you get these little
Speaker 2: like oh it might be this guy, it might be
Speaker 2: that guy, some small part of you is like, well,
Speaker 2: I mean the most impossible thing already happened ten years ago,
Speaker 2: So you're primed to like think that the Lebron and
Speaker 2: ad thing is actually gonna come to pass. I was
Speaker 2: I was like, that's definitely happening. I was like, so sure,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I don't in terms of like, I think
Speaker 2: they're gonna try to make as big a move as
Speaker 2: they can, like within reason, which has kind of been
Speaker 2: part of part of why they haven't gotten the guy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they want to play meaningful basketball. That's all anybody wants.
Speaker 1: If they don't get Lebron. At this point, I feel
Speaker 1: like it's gonna be a little bit now that you've
Speaker 1: pointed out the meaningful part of all this to me,
Speaker 1: and I'm just going off of what you said. I
Speaker 1: don't remember them or seeing it them, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we talk about it all the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, happened.
Speaker 2: I'll be deeply disappointed if they don't get Lebron, just
Speaker 2: because then what We're just gonna run it back and
Speaker 2: wait for Jimmy Butler to be miraculously one hundred percent
Speaker 2: coming off in ACL.
Speaker 1: I do feel like we should take this moment to
Speaker 1: just shout out the New Orleans Pelicans resolve as you
Speaker 1: see Lebron's leaving the Lakers. Jaws traded, Lamellos traded, Trey
Speaker 1: Is traded, Zion and Trey Murphy and Herb Jones are
Speaker 1: just still there. New Orleans going strong. Uh, the final
Speaker 1: actual topic unless we have any breaking news before, I
Speaker 1: wanted to get what your biggest remaining question was the
Speaker 1: latest on number seven option jail in Green. I actually
Speaker 1: wanted to get your thoughts on that whole discussion. But
Speaker 1: it does seem as if it's more likely, like, do
Speaker 1: you envision this as something based on everything that has happened,
Speaker 1: that if they just got in a room, that it
Speaker 1: could be hashed out, or do you view this as
Speaker 1: more of a situation that's reached the point of no return?
Speaker 2: I think you asked me this the other day and
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I think they do after or right,
Speaker 2: maybe I asked you do they have to trade them?
Speaker 2: But it was loaded because I was implying I think
Speaker 2: they do have to trade him yet not sorry you
Speaker 2: like Jazz, it's a number number seven option j Jalen Brown,
Speaker 2: not Jalen Green. Jalen Green is actually be a seven option,
Speaker 2: number three option. I so my gut says, I do
Speaker 2: think you just this feels a little past the point
Speaker 2: of repair, and I think they do need to trade him.
Speaker 2: But we've also gotten to a spot where it's kind
Speaker 2: of like okay, well, but where like, what's the offer
Speaker 2: out there? Well, like Atlanta for four firsts and like
Speaker 2: not a Kong Wu and Jalen Johnson and whatever, like
Speaker 2: are the Celtics taking that? Like maybe I just I
Speaker 2: don't see a great move out there so that I
Speaker 2: have to take that into account. I still I think
Speaker 2: it may be it's salvageable, but like it's gonna be
Speaker 2: tough because this has been kind of a mess and
Speaker 2: and sort of building for a while. It feels like,
Speaker 2: don't you agree?
Speaker 1: I agree that it's a mess. I at this point
Speaker 1: think that they should keep him and try to figure
Speaker 1: it out because I don't.
Speaker 2: See But just do you think that's because the right
Speaker 2: offer's not out there? Because they Oh no, I.
Speaker 1: Think it really don't want to objectively, I thought them
Speaker 1: getting involved in the Yannis sweepstakes was a bad idea.
Speaker 1: I would have rather. It's not that I don't think
Speaker 1: Jannis is the better player. There's no argument for Jalen
Speaker 1: Brown over Yannis. My argument was, would you rather have
Speaker 1: Jalen Brown and picks and flexibility to make other moves
Speaker 1: moving forward or Yannis who you have to extend I
Speaker 1: would rather like that's the path I'd rather choose. And
Speaker 1: now you've entered a point where even the teams that
Speaker 1: people could say, well, now Portland's off the board because
Speaker 1: they went and got jaw Intlanta has been mentioned, who
Speaker 1: were the players like, unless Boston was planning on taking
Speaker 1: some type of step back and reorienting long term around
Speaker 1: Jason Tatum. I want to see them play meaningful basketball
Speaker 1: next year. And it's not to say that they couldn't
Speaker 1: with some of those packages, but it would have felt
Speaker 1: whether it was Portland, whether it's Atlanta, it would have
Speaker 1: felt like a hodgepodge, And at least with the Yannis stuff,
Speaker 1: it was, well, they're trying to get the better player.
Speaker 1: Whether I supported it or not, I understood the logic.
Speaker 1: I might even understand because he's not the better player,
Speaker 1: he's just different. But you could get me on board
Speaker 1: with Evan Mobley and picks, or if it's Evan Mobley
Speaker 1: plus someone plus picks, like, yeah, I could probably get
Speaker 1: on board with that. It doesn't seem like that's out there,
Speaker 1: but that's not the reason why I think you try
Speaker 1: and work this this out unless he has been absolutely
Speaker 1: disastrous behind the scenes on it. I hate the way
Speaker 1: he's been talked about in the media. I don't think
Speaker 1: Bobby Marx I've spoken with him, is super nice. Like,
Speaker 1: I just don't think that was a quote he should
Speaker 1: have shared and like if that person want to put
Speaker 1: their name on it, like it's just these throwaway things.
Speaker 1: We know how they take on a life of their own.
Speaker 1: And now it started this whole analytics debate again. Like
Speaker 1: Jalen Brown, Yes, the on off stuff is the on
Speaker 1: off stuff. You know what it says to me. Boston
Speaker 1: had a hell of a bench and Jalen Brown's role
Speaker 1: and life was super hard last year going up against
Speaker 1: the level of competition. He was so I hate the
Speaker 1: way that this is because it's me and you had
Speaker 1: this exact discussion where it's as soon as a player
Speaker 1: signs either that's second or in most cases third contract.
Speaker 1: Some players like Tyler Hero the moment he size is
Speaker 1: rookie extension. You're just you're kind of at laws so
Speaker 1: much less. Yeah, Jalen Brown, it was that third contract.
Speaker 1: It was like, no, look at this number. It's awful,
Speaker 1: and do I think it's the best contract in the league. Know,
Speaker 1: But this idea that people think Boston stupid because they
Speaker 1: want multiple first round picks for Jalen Brown. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just like Jalen Brown was. You could make these He
Speaker 1: was certainly one of the fifteen best players in basketball
Speaker 1: last year. To me, you could have made the case
Speaker 1: that he was one of the ten. So I find
Speaker 1: that and maybe that's why I'm like tilting so far
Speaker 1: towards just keep him and work it out. My fear
Speaker 1: is just we haven't seen not that he needs to
Speaker 1: do it, but you see Jason Jalen Brown out there
Speaker 1: on Twitch and on Twitter and saying whatever he's saying.
Speaker 1: It would probably go a long way if just like
Speaker 1: Jason Tatum come out and said something. I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to displace the responsibility onto him, but something and maybe
Speaker 1: I'll reverse jinx it like I did with the Knicks.
Speaker 1: Something feels rotten here now and that, well, don't.
Speaker 2: I think I was gonna ask you, is is tatums
Speaker 2: silence pretty loud then? Because he could have that?
Speaker 1: I what do you think?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't think about it at all till you
Speaker 2: just brought it up. It is like, oh, yeah, he
Speaker 2: actually hasn't said anything. I mean, he's not obligated to
Speaker 2: and and you don't get to just conclude that, Oh, well,
Speaker 2: that means Jason Tatum not a fan, you know, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's that's that's a fair thing to assume.
Speaker 2: But I was just gonna. I thought i'd ask you
Speaker 2: that because I thought I might make you try to
Speaker 2: assume something unfairly, But you didn't take de bait.
Speaker 1: I just I hate like it falls under the umbrella
Speaker 1: of when people think they could read NBA players his
Speaker 1: lips in real time. I just can't like that's. I
Speaker 1: like connecting the dots and reading between the lines, but
Speaker 1: like that goes a bridge too far for me. These
Speaker 1: two won a title together, and then maybe maybe my
Speaker 1: analysis is off in the sense that could this beat
Speaker 1: Jaalen Brown driven he wants to be the number one option,
Speaker 1: or he's just not happy in Boston he took or
Speaker 1: maybe he found out that they were talking about Yannis
Speaker 1: and like that was the last draw for him, in
Speaker 1: which like, again, I would not have made that deal,
Speaker 1: as I'd love to know what their final offer was,
Speaker 1: but I would not made that deal as Boston. But
Speaker 1: I think you can say a rap. Reasonable people can
Speaker 1: say it was Joanness, Like, yeah, you're gonna be available
Speaker 1: if Prime Kevin Durant or Prime Yannis hits the chopping block,
Speaker 1: So I think they should keep him. That is my stance.
Speaker 1: I just don't know if we've reached the point where
Speaker 1: they can't well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, that I agree. I I don't know that either.
Speaker 2: I do think to circle back to what you kind
Speaker 2: of originally brought up, like you would like to think
Speaker 2: that Brown and Brad Stevens and whoever else needs to
Speaker 2: be involved could could say to each other, look like,
Speaker 2: it's just best for all of us if we stick
Speaker 2: together like for now. And you probably wouldn't want to
Speaker 2: emphasize the for now part of it because you're just
Speaker 2: leaving that door open. But that's just a fact at
Speaker 2: the moment, because the offer's not out there. Because the
Speaker 2: Celtics might just be the best team in the East
Speaker 2: next year if they just hang hang together with what
Speaker 2: they have and make marginal changes. And like I think
Speaker 2: anybody looking at it rationally would have to agree with that.
Speaker 2: The question is have we moved past being rational and
Speaker 2: which maybe they and maybe Brown is just fed up,
Speaker 2: and maybe the Celtics are fed up, and that's why
Speaker 2: this has to end. In a trade. But you'd like
Speaker 2: to think that they could get together and just kind
Speaker 2: of see this situation for what it is.
Speaker 1: And maybe I'm assuming there is dialogue happening, like, let's not.
Speaker 1: This doesn't need to happen through the media, No, everything does.
Speaker 1: I would be curious do you think it could have
Speaker 1: anything to do We mentioned this in the look at
Speaker 1: he's eligible for a two year, one hundred and forty
Speaker 1: one point nine million dollar extension this late July. I
Speaker 1: think it's July twenty sixth. Is that Could that have
Speaker 1: anything to do with this? I just when I see
Speaker 1: two year extensions, I tend to think, no, Yeah, like
Speaker 1: would you like to three of three.
Speaker 2: Of you hold your horses, buddy? Like we're just like
Speaker 2: we don't want to be like Devin Booker got that
Speaker 2: and the sons have gotten flamed by everybody for well
Speaker 2: and look.
Speaker 1: Dame got it too, and look what happened with him.
Speaker 1: You got traded? You want that? Yes?
Speaker 2: I do, as a matter of fact.
Speaker 1: So quick, quick fire. We had a question in the chat.
Speaker 1: I can't find it one grant, So let's get to
Speaker 1: our biggest questions that we still have. They weren't all
Speaker 1: answered in the first day of free agency. Isn't that weird?
Speaker 1: I find that quite frankly offensive and disappointed. Do you
Speaker 1: think we get any other move tonight?
Speaker 2: If we do, I'm not gonna know about him. Uh So,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say I'll call.
Speaker 1: You when that Jaylen Brown trade comes through at three
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning Eastern time.
Speaker 2: Emergency. Uh Man. Biggest question, so, are we gonna get
Speaker 2: another big move? Who would that be? I guess that
Speaker 2: would be like a sign and trade for Kessler or
Speaker 2: Duran or the Lebron signing or Anthony Davis trade. Seemed
Speaker 2: like that's not happening. Nothing happened with trade, Like no
Speaker 2: Trey Murphy buzz at all. I don't even know what
Speaker 2: who Who's like on deck? Maybe that's the better question, Like,
Speaker 2: what's the if there's another have we are the big
Speaker 2: moves done?
Speaker 1: Is that?
Speaker 2: Is that? Maybe?
Speaker 1: Well? I think my so, My actual biggest question is
Speaker 1: what the fuck are the Pistons doing. I'm just looking
Speaker 1: at their offseason right now, thinking this. It's not that
Speaker 1: this can't be it. I'm looking at what they've done.
Speaker 1: It's like there needs to be something that's just somewhat
Speaker 1: massive lined up but my the other question would be
Speaker 1: does Walker Kessler and or jalender And actually sign an
Speaker 1: offer sheet, because that's when things get a little real
Speaker 1: for the teams. I would imagine both Utah and and
Speaker 1: Detroit end up matching set off her sheets, but I'd
Speaker 1: be curious to know what those look like. Are they
Speaker 1: just the four year max?
Speaker 2: Is?
Speaker 1: What's the team? I mean we we didn't talk about
Speaker 1: this with Jolen Derham. By the way, the kings of
Speaker 1: the luxury tax kings are like having meetings with like
Speaker 1: and there was the rumor that domas a bonus would
Speaker 1: be involved in a sign in trade. I just want
Speaker 1: people to know that the way year compensation worked there
Speaker 1: needs to be like eighty teams probably roped into such
Speaker 1: a deal because Jalendern wouldn't count as his new salary
Speaker 1: going out. Those are the two because I can't I
Speaker 1: don't think that they play such like functionally different positions
Speaker 1: than Lebron. I can't imagine he's holding up anything with
Speaker 1: the center market and the teams that these guys are
Speaker 1: one of them's the Lakers, so they're not waiting on
Speaker 1: Lebron anymore. I can't bring myself to ask the Lebron question,
Speaker 1: because I feel like he might just leave us waiting
Speaker 1: for a while.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think one thing to look at is
Speaker 2: we saw really surprised he got this much. But Tim
Speaker 2: Hardaway Junior was you know, one of the Okay, who
Speaker 2: are the he going to attract to fill out this roster?
Speaker 2: Hardaway Junior got like six million, which I was stunned by.
Speaker 2: I thought we were just dealing with minimums here and.
Speaker 1: Six and a half is not the mini mL E
Speaker 1: that's the more.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, it has to be the non tax because the
Speaker 1: bi annuals smaller than the mini mL.
Speaker 2: Oh right, yeah, So what Norm palin on You'd assume
Speaker 2: you would assume that the heat looked at it and said, like,
Speaker 2: is Tim Hardaway Junior eighty percent as good as Norm Powell?
Speaker 2: Like answer, maybe yes if he if he does what
Speaker 2: he did last year.
Speaker 1: He can't do you want him dribbling?
Speaker 2: No? No, no, I'm just I'm just saying, like, well, we
Speaker 2: knew Powell was gone, even though the sweetheart deal that
Speaker 2: Andrew Wiggins signed just seemed to open up some flexibility,
Speaker 2: but not really because that included him getting the full
Speaker 2: thirty of his player option.
Speaker 1: Here we go. Thank you, Eric, I'm not gonna remember.
Speaker 1: I can guarantee you. I'm gonna.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna rage against this. I'm gonna we should I'm
Speaker 2: gonna try to convince Keith next time we talked that
Speaker 2: it should be spow track, because that's how my brain.
Speaker 1: But for now, I'm going to get spot track tattooed
Speaker 1: on my palm or the end or something. Uh Nurkic
Speaker 1: thoughts Grant two years and twenty two million dollars.
Speaker 2: A little surprised it was that much, but he did
Speaker 2: have many triple doubles in extremely meaningful basketball games last year.
Speaker 1: I also haven't seen the report, and there's no way
Speaker 1: the second year is fully given. There might be a
Speaker 1: mutual option on the second year.
Speaker 2: That's my real question is are we gonna normalize the
Speaker 2: fallacy that is the mutual option in our in our
Speaker 2: contract discourse.
Speaker 1: Oh, this feels wrong, wrong, He can no, he could dribble.
Speaker 2: He can dribble k good pastor facility.
Speaker 1: But as sneaky as Josh Green.
Speaker 2: Nobody's as well. Yeah, I wouldn't describe Josh Green's on
Speaker 2: the move passing as sneaky so much as uh, let's
Speaker 2: see what's the right way to describe it? Incisive?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: And uh, let's go with that. It's just like just
Speaker 2: out there dison it up on the move. Nobody does it,
Speaker 2: Like Josh Green.
Speaker 1: Did we mention this yet? In the the Andrew Wiggins contract?
Speaker 1: You and I talked off air? Did I mention it
Speaker 1: on air?
Speaker 2: I don't think I just alluded to it, but we
Speaker 2: should probably the.
Speaker 1: Best Like, is that the most team friendly deal that's been.
Speaker 2: Signed effectively two new years on top of his thirty
Speaker 2: million dollar player option at seventeen per for Andrew Wiggins. Like,
Speaker 2: even if you think he's aging, that dude is better
Speaker 2: than a mid level player, which is basically what seventeen
Speaker 2: a year is gonna be over over what twenty seven,
Speaker 2: twenty eight and twenty eight twenty nine?
Speaker 1: Right that that's so far the move where I look
Speaker 1: at it and I want it to be investigated. It
Speaker 1: feels like player right right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? That was that one was I'm trying to think
Speaker 2: what else? Just like didn't pass the initial smell test?
Speaker 2: What do you think that's ot? I mean honestly about
Speaker 2: the two for twenty two was close?
Speaker 1: What if you thought about the non star market in general?
Speaker 1: Because so wigans signing for what he did. I thought
Speaker 1: Gillspie might have gotten a little bit more than four
Speaker 1: for forty eight. Jordan Goodwin, Now this is where my
Speaker 1: homerism would come out. When I saw him get three
Speaker 1: for nineteen, I was like, Wow, so the Knicks are
Speaker 1: just gonna get deuce for three twenty four, right, because
Speaker 1: they're similar players, Jordan go Wentz a little bigger out right.
Speaker 1: But I've I've just been curious because we have some
Speaker 1: of them. But like even Canard, I guess it's just
Speaker 1: all right, so we're we're not really work. I mean, JOCKH. Landel,
Speaker 1: it seems to me like if you're gonna get as
Speaker 1: a role player like anywhere near the non tax MLLE,
Speaker 1: it's because you signed for one season.
Speaker 2: Well, but you just I was just looking for the
Speaker 2: for the contract that gave me the biggest double take.
Speaker 2: Like Landale's up there, fourteen I know it's one year.
Speaker 2: There's no bad one year deals, but fourteen million was like,
Speaker 2: to me, shockingly high? Did you not get that way
Speaker 2: to it?
Speaker 1: I reacted that way too, because they didn't have his
Speaker 1: bird rights and so you just burned your non tax MLLE.
Speaker 1: On John Addams a human trade exception.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's matching salary where they're gonna he's just there
Speaker 2: to be moved. I mean, that's the only to me
Speaker 2: like I get unless they really think he's he's there. Okay,
Speaker 2: you're you're giving you eighteen minutes a game as the
Speaker 2: primary backup center and we believe in you like that
Speaker 2: doesn't in which case, fourteen million on a one year
Speaker 2: deal is fine. I just I don't think the Hawks
Speaker 2: view him that way.
Speaker 1: Regulator eighty six eighty, Is Dean Wade's deal actually a
Speaker 1: good deal?
Speaker 2: I don't think we landed on an answer there.
Speaker 1: I don't. I I'm go ahead.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I was gonna say I was gonna say I
Speaker 2: like it better than the Hurder deal, just because I
Speaker 2: can imagine Dean Wade mattering like in big games, and
Speaker 2: Herder just hasn't proved that he can do that.
Speaker 1: But I don't. I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's fine, it's fine. I don't have a strong take
Speaker 2: on it, so I guess I can't. I can't say
Speaker 2: it's way too high or too low.
Speaker 1: We do have clarification on the mutual options that I
Speaker 1: think maybe only you and I care about this much.
Speaker 1: John Hodger says, Okay, just got to the bottom of this.
Speaker 1: Kean Ellis's deal is a true mutual option for a
Speaker 1: year two. He's getting two years and eighteen million, unless
Speaker 1: both sides simultaneously opt out of it next June, which
Speaker 1: presumably would only happen if they had already agreed on
Speaker 1: his next contract. If he sucks in the next and
Speaker 1: the Nets one out after first year, Ellis can enforce
Speaker 1: the year two guarantee. If he massively outplays the deal
Speaker 1: in the first year and wants to hit free agency,
Speaker 1: the Nets can enforce the second year of the deal,
Speaker 1: so likely ends up being straight two for eighteen. But
Speaker 1: there's some wiggle room unusual creative structure. So I don't, well,
Speaker 1: I didn't read this before I read it on the air,
Speaker 1: and this to me comes across as so is he
Speaker 1: partially guaranteed on the play? Like there? Is it a
Speaker 1: team option with a partial guarantee? I don't. I don't understand,
Speaker 1: But how is it being enforced?
Speaker 2: The second thing is that just sounded like a team option,
Speaker 2: uh the way you read it, So it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I mean just like a player option where it's like if.
Speaker 1: He I I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna need I need to actually read it, okay, and
Speaker 2: I'm gonna look at it. This is the true mutual
Speaker 2: option for year two. He's getting two years and eighteen
Speaker 2: Unless both sides on the opt out, Shrimsley would only
Speaker 2: happen already agreed on his next contract. Okay, that's not helpful.
Speaker 2: If he sucks and the Nets one out, Ellis can
Speaker 2: enforce the year two guarantee. That's that's a player option.
Speaker 2: Like he sucks, the Nets don't want to pay him,
Speaker 2: but Ellis is in charge and can just say no, no, no,
Speaker 2: you're paying me for that second year. If he outplays
Speaker 2: it and wants to hit free agents, the Nets can enforce.
Speaker 2: So that sounds like a team option.
Speaker 1: I don't even says. Someone asked about it via what
Speaker 1: mechanism is this being done? And John Hodger said player
Speaker 1: option and a team option.
Speaker 2: I just thought that was not allowed in the CBA.
Speaker 2: I just I don't Everything that's being described here sounds
Speaker 2: like a mutual option, but I thought you couldn't do that.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna need to see the text of the
Speaker 2: actual uh mechanism at work here.
Speaker 1: I am skully g underscore Okay, could you all see
Speaker 1: Jolen Brown being traded for Jabal Murray? Who says no
Speaker 1: to that? Probably, I assume both teams.
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of right, Like I think I don't think
Speaker 2: you could argue that Brown does more for Denver than
Speaker 2: Murray does, and probably vice versa. I guess my gut
Speaker 2: is that the Nuggets would say no first, but I
Speaker 2: think both ultimately say no.
Speaker 1: I actually feel stronger that Boston would want more than
Speaker 1: just a jamalmur Like, if there was a team that's
Speaker 1: asking for more stuff as part of this deal, it's
Speaker 1: going to be Boston.
Speaker 2: Oh, I kind of think the well, I guess Brown's
Speaker 2: been more durable and he's actually well, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Both say no. That's where I land on that one.
Speaker 1: Anything else from you, is you have any other questions
Speaker 1: or things that you're just monitoring. I'm very curious to
Speaker 1: see lebron watches certainly holding up James Harden at the
Speaker 1: very least and Draymond. So those are two free agencies
Speaker 1: that we're not gonna see resolved. That might even be
Speaker 1: holding Danthony Melton, your guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's rough. I'd say, yeah, I would just say, like,
Speaker 2: maybe does Atlanta have a bigger thing in the works here.
Speaker 2: Does Detroit have something that you mentioned? Do they have
Speaker 2: something bigger in the works? Is Denver gonna do anything
Speaker 2: that would be maybe salary? Yeah, besides cuts, at what
Speaker 2: form will the salary cutting take? Maybe is the better question.
Speaker 1: Cam Johnson's gone right, because they don't have the.
Speaker 2: I mean we've we've talked about it. I guess probably.
Speaker 1: By the way, we haven't heard a whisper tonight of
Speaker 1: like Tari Easan or Peyton Watson, who were just like
Speaker 1: right anywhere. Like, I'm surprised that the teams with cap
Speaker 1: Space seem to be more focused on Kessler and Derna was.
Speaker 1: Those two are just so desperate to turn up markets.
Speaker 1: They're trying. But like they're meeting with the Kings. We
Speaker 1: know it's doven bad if you're meeting with the Kings, right, Well, so.
Speaker 2: The one last thing I know, we could just keep
Speaker 2: picking little things out. The thunder have to cut a
Speaker 2: little more money, right, because they did. They did opt
Speaker 2: in dort That's interesting, right, they moved Joe and it
Speaker 2: is Kenris Williams. They declined, Right, I'm just going off
Speaker 2: the top of my head here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're within eight million of ducking the second apron,
Speaker 1: and so how are they gonna do that? Isn't it? Well?
Speaker 1: I mean, do they start looking at I've so thunder
Speaker 1: fans were killing Nate Duncan for suggesting this. I think
Speaker 1: it was that crazy. I understand Lou Dort is an
Speaker 1: intensely flawed player and what happened in the playoffs this
Speaker 1: past year, But if you wanted to, you just drafted
Speaker 1: a Demarra. If you want to do it through like
Speaker 1: moving toepitch and Thomas Sorber, I'm not gonna blink.
Speaker 2: I heard him make that case, and I was annoyed
Speaker 2: that we didn't come up with it because it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: of course, Like why wouldn't you just move the the
Speaker 2: two young guys that have not played for you basically yet?
Speaker 2: I think I think that that's what you're talking about, right.
Speaker 2: That was that was the move that like, no, this
Speaker 2: will be how they do it, because Dort actually still
Speaker 2: has value. He's like been a starter on a championship team.
Speaker 1: Right, He's also like he's an institution to the organization
Speaker 1: at least like his.
Speaker 2: Fans, which I did not factor into most of my analysis, Like, oh,
Speaker 2: that actually might just decide it right there. Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: Done. He's more like he's insurance if you can't pay
Speaker 1: Casey and Wallace if Alex Caruso all of a sudden
Speaker 1: falls off a cliff or gets injured. I'm actually just
Speaker 1: maybe it's what we're doing with Duran, But it's just
Speaker 1: weird to see the own, like the team's fan base
Speaker 1: do it, and they've watched lou Dort for longer than
Speaker 1: we have. But maybe it's because that's the last taste
Speaker 1: in their mouth of lou Dort and we've seen it before.
Speaker 1: He just has these wild there and they're not even
Speaker 1: in the moment wild swings. It feels like he has
Speaker 1: entire like seasons that are like from two like good
Speaker 1: shooting seasons, and then he falls off a cliff and
Speaker 1: is making terrible decisions. So I think, wow, I'm skull.
Speaker 1: He says, I would like to see Chet get traded.
Speaker 1: Is it because you wants? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Right at work there.
Speaker 1: So I think that's if I had to guess, I
Speaker 1: think they because Topich alone won't do it right. I'll
Speaker 1: double check. Because he was a lottery picks. We might
Speaker 1: be making some money taking a while of load here,
Speaker 1: I would prefer as Okay, see even though it's kind
Speaker 1: of only buying you, because like, what is the pathway
Speaker 1: to topic your sword we're playing at this point.
Speaker 2: Topitch is set to make a five point five point
Speaker 2: four and yeah, has to be both, which could you?
Speaker 2: I guess unless you view Jay Will as expendable with
Speaker 2: Mara and Hartenstein and check back, I would still rather moved, yes,
Speaker 2: and Sorber's at four point eight. I'd still rather move
Speaker 2: the two young guys, probably because you're right, like the
Speaker 2: path to playing time is what the injury I guess,
Speaker 2: but okay, I mean that that's that's I don't think
Speaker 2: the Thunder are super comfortable with having to rely on
Speaker 2: either of those guys in the event of injury.
Speaker 1: So are they? Are they even the third guy at
Speaker 1: any of their positions in the event of an injury
Speaker 1: when you already know the answers? No for Sober, because
Speaker 1: it's you have Hartenstein, Chet Mara, and jay Will and
Speaker 1: then we've seen them play j Dubbits Center two, so
Speaker 1: you're you might be sixth in that.
Speaker 2: And then if if it's like I guess, you'd call
Speaker 2: Topitch a lead guard, I get like, so Shay and
Speaker 2: Mitchell and then you just I would rather have j
Speaker 2: Dubb and then Jared McCain, just as you're sort of like,
Speaker 2: well we can help. Yeah, No, I think I think
Speaker 2: that's probably the way to do it.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I have Oh yeah, and they
Speaker 1: have stirts now too, which is just I will say,
Speaker 1: Samson Folk and I can't remember who he was talking with,
Speaker 1: got me hot. They were doing like a Bennett Startz
Speaker 1: breakdown before the draft, and this is the problem. This
Speaker 1: is why I'm dangerous when it comes to the draft.
Speaker 1: So I went back and watching I got this is like,
Speaker 1: this is worse than Brooks Barnheiser. Remember how high on
Speaker 1: him I was last season?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you got me with Brooks Barnheiser. I bought
Speaker 2: in just on your review alone.
Speaker 1: You're welcome or apologies. I don't think. I think that's
Speaker 1: like there's nothing. I expected tonight to yield more substance.
Speaker 1: And we talked a lot about theoretical stuff, and I
Speaker 1: thought there was gonna be more like Thankfully those trades happened.
Speaker 1: Otherwise we just would have talked about, well, like who
Speaker 1: do you put around Lebron and Steph in Golden state
Speaker 1: for an hour and a half is what we would
Speaker 1: have needed to do.
Speaker 2: I could never imagine myself being able to do that,
Speaker 2: Thank god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a short window. Yeah, I get it,
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's gonna do it, I think. Thanks everybody in
Speaker 2: the comments robust comment section tonight much appreciated. Thanks to
Speaker 2: all the listeners and and viewers. As always, the all
Speaker 2: the subscribers especially. The best way to support this podcast
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Speaker 1: Including Grant's wardrobe when we're on cast.
Speaker 2: Yeah you know, I had a tank top on today
Speaker 2: and I sat down and I was like, not tonight.
Speaker 1: I Actually someone just messaged me on ig because we
Speaker 1: posted a re of the what you mentioned at the
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Speaker 1: The why not Us era? Someone already messaged message me
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Speaker 2: But we close as always without Spranklokana. Apologies to Jared Allen.