1 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,519 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, 2 00:00:16,839 --> 00:00:19,120 and this is a pre recorded show. I do all 3 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,839 my shows like live shows. I just whether they're live 4 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,760 or pre recorded. I don't edit them because I'm lazy. 5 00:00:26,039 --> 00:00:28,199 That's just the way it is. But anyway, I have 6 00:00:28,239 --> 00:00:30,600 a great guest. He's always fun to have on the show, 7 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,679 Charles Lear, and he's going to be talking about his 8 00:00:33,759 --> 00:00:36,719 new updated book and so much more. We're going to 9 00:00:36,759 --> 00:00:40,479 be talking about the well basically UFO history, and I'm 10 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,159 going to let him it's MB in Mexico is the 11 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:44,799 blog he wrote this week. But I'm gonna let him 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,200 talk a little bit about that when I bring him 13 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,960 in in just a minute. So as you are watching this, 14 00:00:51,359 --> 00:00:54,880 I am in the air and I'm going to be 15 00:00:55,159 --> 00:01:00,200 landing after this show is done on the night going 16 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,560 to the Sedona Actually, I'll be on my way to 17 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:10,280 Sedona for the Fires Skyfire Summit twenty twenty five, Travis 18 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,400 Walton's fiftieth anniversary with some great speakers out there, I 19 00:01:13,439 --> 00:01:15,920 get some good interviews. I'm not really one hundred percent 20 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,120 sure yet if I can do this. I'm going to 21 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,400 try to do this on Thursday, evening some type of 22 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,719 a live show from there. Again, I don't have it. 23 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,280 There's a lot of moving parts, so I don't have 24 00:01:28,359 --> 00:01:31,319 anything definitely set up, but I will attempt to do 25 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,400 something there. If not, then we will have some pre 26 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,799 recorded interviews that I will get while I'm out there. 27 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,840 So anyway, really looking forward to that beautiful area out 28 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,280 there in Sedona. And I think Charles told me to 29 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,079 watch out for the vor Texas, so I will do 30 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,680 that indeed. But so thank you everyone that supports the show. 31 00:01:50,799 --> 00:01:53,480 Thank you all that I'll listen to the show and 32 00:01:53,519 --> 00:01:55,680 have been for a long time. You know, sometimes I 33 00:01:56,439 --> 00:01:58,239 have to say I get a little bit discouraged because 34 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,159 it seems like there's not as much activity on YouTube 35 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,920 as it was. But it's probably just a face at 36 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:06,760 this point or whatever. It is. Still a lot of 37 00:02:06,799 --> 00:02:10,759 people are active in the audio part of it, and 38 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,080 thank you all for listening in that way. And so 39 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,439 I know, I guess I sound like an airline when 40 00:02:18,439 --> 00:02:19,759 I say this, So I know you have a lot 41 00:02:19,759 --> 00:02:22,199 of choices. There's definitely a lot of choices. When I 42 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,439 first started doing podcasting, there was only like four or 43 00:02:25,479 --> 00:02:29,080 five of us, and I can't think of anyone that 44 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,680 has consistently gone as long as when I started back 45 00:02:33,719 --> 00:02:37,319 in twenty eleven. But there are still some great people 46 00:02:37,599 --> 00:02:40,439 out there. You know Micah Hanks, but he does other things. 47 00:02:40,439 --> 00:02:44,639 He was out there before me, Greg Bishop, There's a 48 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,759 few others. But anyway, it's a real pleasure. I still 49 00:02:49,759 --> 00:02:52,280 love doing this show. I have no plans on ever stopping. 50 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,520 And so I think I've talked plenty and it's time 51 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,520 I bring in our guest tonight, Charles Lear. Welcome, Charles. 52 00:03:00,719 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 2: Hello, Martin, how are you, my friend? 53 00:03:03,039 --> 00:03:05,879 Speaker 1: I'm doing great, And thank you for all your years 54 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:11,240 of doing such wonderful blogging for me. And yeah, I 55 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,159 mean it's it's such a pleasure a weekly blog. I mean, 56 00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:18,319 that is so much work. And I know you you 57 00:03:18,719 --> 00:03:20,960 have a very active life and you do a lot 58 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,520 of different things in New York, and so I really 59 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,879 thank you for you taking the time and doing research 60 00:03:29,039 --> 00:03:32,639 every single week and putting out these wonderful blogs. 61 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I just it's a pleasure. Martin, thank 62 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,520 you very much. And I just want to let the 63 00:03:41,599 --> 00:03:45,719 listeners know I have the answer to the UFO mystery. 64 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,719 If you stay and watch the entire video, I'll tell 65 00:03:49,759 --> 00:03:50,800 you at the very end. 66 00:03:50,879 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: Okay, but don't skip ahead because you know it doesn't 67 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,840 work that way. Yes, very funny. Yeah, yeah, so you 68 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,120 know how I always tell people like, if someone tells 69 00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:04,719 you they know what's going on, then run run. 70 00:04:04,759 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, since you're going to Sedona. I have a 71 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:08,680 good story. 72 00:04:08,919 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: Okay. 73 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:15,599 Speaker 2: A friend of mine, a coworker, her daughter got interested 74 00:04:15,599 --> 00:04:21,000 in UFOs. She bought my book for her daughter. They 75 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,120 read it together and they ended up going to Sedona 76 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,920 and went on a UFO tour and listened to the 77 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,399 lady speak, and the lady was telling them all about 78 00:04:32,399 --> 00:04:39,279 this wonderful researcher doctor Frank Strangers. Oh yeah, yeah, well 79 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,920 they're still out there, yes, doctor Frank Strangers. For those 80 00:04:42,959 --> 00:04:47,519 of you who do not know wrote the book, I 81 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,920 think it was Visitor at the White House about Valiant 82 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:51,600 Thor and. 83 00:04:51,639 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: Oh that one, yes, yes, I know he is. 84 00:04:54,680 --> 00:05:00,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's an absolutely wonderful crazy character who actually 85 00:05:00,639 --> 00:05:05,600 got busted smuggling trying to smuggle a lot of marijuana 86 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,240 when his plane couldn't get off the ground because it 87 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:15,120 was too many bales of marijuana on it. Oh well, anyway. 88 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,759 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean there's that's funny if anyone does 89 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,120 any research, if you look up Valiant Thor at the 90 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,120 White House, you'll see pictures of this guy and they 91 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,000 say he's the alien. Wasn't that the story there? He 92 00:05:28,079 --> 00:05:30,839 was saying that he was like an alien that came 93 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:31,560 to visit Earth. 94 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 2: Then yeah, and he was trying to advise him at 95 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,839 the White House, and the strangers says he didn't listen, 96 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:38,639 that they wouldn't listen to him. 97 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder why. 98 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,199 Speaker 2: But and he claimed that he got access he was 99 00:05:45,519 --> 00:05:47,160 unable to speak to him himself. 100 00:05:47,319 --> 00:05:52,319 Speaker 1: So oh, all good stuff. Yeah, I mean I love 101 00:05:52,439 --> 00:05:55,279 the Sedona areas, just so beautiful there. 102 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,959 Speaker 2: And I'll tell you, we were coming down off the 103 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,600 plateau because it's like just down off the Colorado Plateau. 104 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,920 And when we were coming down, uh uh I mean 105 00:06:06,399 --> 00:06:11,560 the girls uh out on a trip and uh the 106 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:16,120 car coming down off the plateau, we were literally going wow. 107 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:22,480 I mean just yeah, it is so beautiful out there, and. 108 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: Some strange things going on. I have, Yes, Yeah, there's 109 00:06:29,399 --> 00:06:32,839 there's a lot of you know, they there's a lot 110 00:06:32,879 --> 00:06:35,319 of stories. There's a lot of people have seen things 111 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,519 there and uh, you know, I have a friend that 112 00:06:38,639 --> 00:06:42,279 visited out there and he was all excited and uh, 113 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,360 this was a couple of years ago and ended up 114 00:06:44,399 --> 00:06:47,800 being starlink because he thought he finally had something. Oh yeah, 115 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,920 tell me about in a film to show me. 116 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 2: You know, it's such a problem with UFO researched these days. 117 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,079 There's so many things up there that look weird. 118 00:06:58,639 --> 00:07:00,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, and like I. 119 00:07:00,879 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 2: Saw this thing on it's really cool looking V shaped 120 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:12,360 UFO picture and it looked really good. Wow, And then 121 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,279 you know, I'm searching, I'm searching. I'm thinking I might 122 00:07:15,319 --> 00:07:18,160 write about it. It turns out to be a kite. 123 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,480 So they make kites with LEDs on them. So what 124 00:07:21,519 --> 00:07:24,360 are you going to do? You know what I mean? Yeah, 125 00:07:25,079 --> 00:07:26,800 it was a party. You know. You look at the 126 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,560 picture of the kite and you look at the picture 127 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,240 of the UFO and it was a perfect match. 128 00:07:32,839 --> 00:07:34,079 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Yeah. 129 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: Yes, And you know anything can also automaticmatically be explained 130 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,160 as a drone, and so you know, what are you 131 00:07:42,199 --> 00:07:45,480 going to do? It's it's brutal for us folks out 132 00:07:45,519 --> 00:07:45,920 here right. 133 00:07:46,319 --> 00:07:50,079 Speaker 1: Well, there was that hang glider that had lights that 134 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:51,879 people were I don't know if you ever saw that. 135 00:07:52,519 --> 00:07:55,120 I didn't catch We're thinking that was a UFO too 136 00:07:55,279 --> 00:07:57,480 for you know, I mean that was I don't know, 137 00:07:57,519 --> 00:07:59,959 maybe five or six years ago. But you know, something 138 00:08:00,079 --> 00:08:03,879 I've never asked you, Charles, what was what sparked your 139 00:08:03,959 --> 00:08:05,879 first interest in the UFO topic. 140 00:08:05,959 --> 00:08:09,639 Speaker 2: To begin with, I grew up in the seventies. There's 141 00:08:09,879 --> 00:08:14,720 no way to avoid not becoming interested in UFOs. And 142 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,319 you know, I think the very first book I bought 143 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:24,439 was that I remember was The Bermuda Triangle by Charles Burlitz. 144 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:32,360 But yeah, as soon as I think, you know, as 145 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,320 soon as videotape became big and I was able to 146 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:42,879 get UFO documentaries, I would say in the eighties and nineties, 147 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:48,840 my interests, I'd say, yeah, more like the mid eighties, 148 00:08:49,879 --> 00:08:55,879 my interest got deeper and I started watching every UFO 149 00:08:56,039 --> 00:08:59,879 documentary I could get, and after a while, the name 150 00:09:00,279 --> 00:09:05,360 of the researchers and this cases became more and more familiar. 151 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,080 And then I found myself wanting to be able to 152 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:13,960 actually keep in mind dates and you know, be specific 153 00:09:14,039 --> 00:09:18,519 about the cases and you know, not be so passive 154 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:24,360 about it. But you know, when I started writing for 155 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:29,720 you is when I got really down with the research. 156 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,399 Speaker 1: And you know, found my niche you did and it's uh, 157 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,759 you know, basically historic cases. That's what you do, you know, 158 00:09:37,879 --> 00:09:40,679 most of your work, not always, but a lot of a. 159 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 2: Lot of really really would like to write about stuff 160 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,919 that's going on now that you know. Unfortunately, every time 161 00:09:50,039 --> 00:09:52,840 I try to do a search with UFO news or 162 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:58,279 UFO witnesses or UFO sightings, the only thing I get 163 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:05,759 is what's going on in Congress or you know, the 164 00:10:05,919 --> 00:10:11,879 latest posting on Reddit which has or wherever on social media, 165 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,799 which is almost always anonymous, and even if it's not, 166 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,720 there's very little follow up because there are no you know, 167 00:10:20,919 --> 00:10:24,440 there are no zines out anymore other than mouf on. 168 00:10:25,879 --> 00:10:33,840 So you know, finding a witness interviewed by a researcher 169 00:10:34,519 --> 00:10:38,600 and finding witness testimony, which is the nuts and bolts 170 00:10:38,639 --> 00:10:43,799 of this whole phenomenon, is next to impossible. I very occasionally, 171 00:10:43,799 --> 00:10:48,080 I just was thankful Stan Gordon still out there, but 172 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:55,600 you know, he's been around since, you know, nineteen sixty five. 173 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,799 He's still doing it, thank God. But you know, it'd 174 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,320 be really nice to see younger people coming up and 175 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,559 you know, who's going to take a stands place when 176 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,639 he goes. You know, yeah, it's kind of I look 177 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,399 really healthy, by the way, that please don't go soon. 178 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,360 But yeah, but I saw a wonderful case that he 179 00:11:14,519 --> 00:11:19,000 had up on his website about a woman who was 180 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,480 going out gardening was literally stopped by an orb I 181 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:27,399 think about the size of basketball, and it wasn't letting 182 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,639 her go to her garden. And she said, I think 183 00:11:31,759 --> 00:11:35,080 she actually had a little contact with it, and said 184 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,840 it felt really cold, like a refrigerator, kind of metallic. 185 00:11:41,159 --> 00:11:45,440 So it wasn't just some weird light phenomenon, at least 186 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,600 according to her. But you know, it was a wonderful 187 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,840 report and just to you know, and her testimony was 188 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,919 all over the report. I mean that was and she 189 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,519 was actually interviewed by a friend of Stanley, I believe. 190 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,759 But you know it occasionally I'll come upon that and 191 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,519 I literally would prefer to write about that. Well, I 192 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,559 mean I like writing about that. I would like to 193 00:12:10,759 --> 00:12:15,080 write about more contemporary cases as well as the historic cases. 194 00:12:15,919 --> 00:12:19,240 But the historic cases, I mean I keep finding them 195 00:12:19,879 --> 00:12:24,039 things I hadn't heard about there more and more and more. 196 00:12:24,279 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, I was on a drive the 197 00:12:27,759 --> 00:12:29,639 other day, a two hour drive was I think it 198 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:35,679 was just yesterday, and I pulled up on Luckily Donna, 199 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,480 my producer and better half with me. We both like 200 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,879 watching UFO stuff. Of course I keep my eyes on 201 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,159 the road, but I pulled up Eyes on Cinema and 202 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,120 they have some amazing, you know, old interviews that you 203 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,600 never see anywhere else, just on YouTube, and you know, 204 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,840 like I listened to, well, hey, I want to hear 205 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:00,399 Travis Walton is very first interview in nineteen seventy five. Enough, 206 00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:03,600 there it is, and happy to say there's not a 207 00:13:03,639 --> 00:13:06,440 lot of change. I mean, everything is pretty, you know, 208 00:13:06,919 --> 00:13:09,639 much the same as it was. Well, I want to say, 209 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,399 almost every detail is exactly the same of what it 210 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:20,519 was back in nineteen seventy five. So that's always it's 211 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,039 always great. But I mean I love the historic cases. 212 00:13:23,399 --> 00:13:26,000 And one thing, if you go on Ice on Cinema, 213 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,879 you can see these cases I've never even heard about, 214 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,399 and some of them are fantastic, you know, with a 215 00:13:32,639 --> 00:13:37,360 policeman or pilots, you know, they have these encounters. There 216 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,720 was I can't remember the guy's name in the when 217 00:13:40,759 --> 00:13:43,080 it happened exactly, maybe in the nineteen fifties, but it 218 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,759 was a shoot him down situation. He had twenty four 219 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,240 arm whatever his missiles were or whatever. He had twenty 220 00:13:52,279 --> 00:13:54,960 four right, and they told him to shoot basically fire 221 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,799 on it and nothing happened when he locked on it, 222 00:13:57,879 --> 00:14:00,399 and nothing happened, and the thing ended up taking off. 223 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,120 But you know, first hand testimony like that. I love these, 224 00:14:04,279 --> 00:14:07,360 I love the historic ones, and I love hearing ones 225 00:14:07,399 --> 00:14:10,559 I've never heard before. And that's what your blogs bring. 226 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,600 And by the way, I mentioned in the beginning when 227 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,000 I started this that you'd explain a little bit about 228 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,360 the MiB in Mexico blog this week. So yeah, what 229 00:14:19,519 --> 00:14:19,679 is that? 230 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:26,159 Speaker 2: Oh, I It's strange how I happen upon things. 231 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:28,679 Speaker 1: This one. 232 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 2: I was one of my go to sites is archives 233 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:41,600 for the Unexplained Swedish site, and they have probably the 234 00:14:41,639 --> 00:14:48,399 world's largest physical archives. And I'm going through the magazine 235 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:54,559 section and I'm researching a new book, the UFO Investigators. 236 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,919 About two thirds through. This has been taking forever because 237 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:04,080 my life is been crashing in on me. But I 238 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,919 had to move recently. Dog got really sick. I spent 239 00:15:09,039 --> 00:15:10,639 thousands of dollars saving them. 240 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:13,519 Speaker 1: Oh that was your dog. 241 00:15:14,279 --> 00:15:17,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I kind of. I'm not on social media, 242 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,960 so I s there was a go fund me I 243 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,639 sent out to everybody on every one of my lists. 244 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:33,840 But anyway, yeah, so, yeah, I was looking for stuff 245 00:15:33,879 --> 00:15:40,440 on crop circles. Where did they come from? And of 246 00:15:40,519 --> 00:15:43,240 course you go to before for that, and before I 247 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,399 put out a lot of publications much like q FOS did, 248 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:55,879 and you can find so I found a thing on 249 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,240 crop circles. But as I'm looking, I saw all this 250 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:05,159 thing on an m IB report, a Men in Black report, 251 00:16:05,279 --> 00:16:09,679 and oh I got to look at this and the 252 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,240 it was written by Robert Boy It's titled Men in Black, 253 00:16:16,279 --> 00:16:22,399 a Preliminary Report, and it spent a huge amount of 254 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:27,279 time on the Albert K. Bender thing, the origin of 255 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,360 the Men in Black, And more than likely Albert K. 256 00:16:31,519 --> 00:16:36,399 Bender invented the story because he was a little overwhelmed 257 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:42,080 by the fact that his UFO organization went international and 258 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,480 got too big too fast, and he probably wasn't able 259 00:16:46,519 --> 00:16:49,919 to handle it. That was kind of an assessment by 260 00:16:50,039 --> 00:16:54,919 one of his contemporaries, Jim Moseley, who interviewed him. And 261 00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:04,799 Mosley ran a Saucer Saucers and Celestial Events Celestial Events 262 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:11,279 Research Society for probably the longest running UFO organization ever, 263 00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:15,119 and put out saucer smear and interviewed Bender in that way. 264 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,000 His conclusion was that Bender made up the story. But anyway, 265 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:22,799 after this publication gets through the whole Bender thing, they 266 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,839 bring up some other cases and all the other So 267 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:32,039 the Bender I think got something like maybe fifteen pages, 268 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,519 and then every other case gets about two pages. And 269 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:43,160 so there's a famous one, the doctor Hopkins case, which 270 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,720 is it sounds so good and oh god, you really 271 00:17:47,799 --> 00:17:53,880 want to believe it's true. He talks about a couple, 272 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:58,559 a male and female in black, came to his house 273 00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:04,400 to talk about a case he was researching, and he 274 00:18:04,559 --> 00:18:09,480 said they were fondeling each other and actually asked if 275 00:18:09,519 --> 00:18:11,440 it was all right and if they're doing it right, 276 00:18:13,319 --> 00:18:17,119 said the woman's legs didn't appear to be attached to 277 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:23,039 her hips correctly, and just it's a totally bizarre story. 278 00:18:23,599 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I consumer that would be a problem. 279 00:18:26,279 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 2: It turns out I think his nephew wrote that uncle. 280 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,200 I think his name is Albert Hopkins. But anyway, good 281 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:44,000 old uncle Albert, I like to drink heavily, and I'd 282 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,000 like to make stories up. And this is probably a 283 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,880 combination of a lot of alcohol and a lot of bs. 284 00:18:52,839 --> 00:18:57,359 But anyway, right after that is this great story about 285 00:18:57,839 --> 00:19:04,240 a Mexican pilot nineteen seventy four. I believe he was 286 00:19:06,519 --> 00:19:11,599 flying a I think a Piper Aztec was a brand 287 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:19,799 of the name brand of the plane, and he he 288 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,160 was above the clouds. He was flying really high for 289 00:19:24,519 --> 00:19:27,839 a private you know, for a little plane that was 290 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,559 didn't have a pressurized cabin. He was up at around 291 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:31,880 fifteen plus. 292 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want to go higher than that. Mess out. 293 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,559 Speaker 2: And he came down to check on a lake to 294 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,119 see where he was, and he couldn't see the lake, 295 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,720 but all of a sudden, he saw to his left 296 00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:50,640 there was this three meter classic saucer with a couple 297 00:19:50,759 --> 00:19:53,519 on top what looked like a window and an antenna 298 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,400 on his left, and then he looked at his right 299 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,960 there was another one over the wing to his right 300 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:03,640 pretty much equid. And then he got really upset when 301 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,079 he saw something coming right towards him. Another craft, just 302 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:12,319 like the other two, came under He felt heard a 303 00:20:12,519 --> 00:20:16,680 scraping noise under his plane, and it's kind of like 304 00:20:16,759 --> 00:20:19,799 this thing was underneath him, and it seemed like these 305 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,079 things were controlling the plane. He tried to bank to 306 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:28,960 knock the left one off. It didn't go off. I mean, 307 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,240 he couldn't even turn. His controls weren't working. He also 308 00:20:32,319 --> 00:20:34,839 tried to lower his landing gear to get rid of 309 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,920 the saucer beneath him, and nothing happened. His landing gear 310 00:20:39,039 --> 00:20:42,039 wasn't working, so he called the tower. So he get 311 00:20:42,079 --> 00:20:48,240 a transcript from the tower conversation that was provided by APRON. 312 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:54,039 Aero Phenomenon Research organization covered this story. It's the front 313 00:20:54,079 --> 00:20:59,400 page story I think the August nineteen seventy five APRO bulletin. 314 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,599 Check my blog you can find the actual link. But 315 00:21:06,039 --> 00:21:12,279 he so their field investigator from Mexico provided them with 316 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,640 the transcript, and so you hear the whole thing between 317 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:24,759 the tower operator and the pilot. But the aproa bulletin 318 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:30,279 only has you know this story. And eventually what happened 319 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:36,799 is the pilot flew into managed to the tower put 320 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:42,039 him in touch with his uncle, who was actually an 321 00:21:42,279 --> 00:21:49,480 aviation expert quote unquote, and he must have given him 322 00:21:49,519 --> 00:21:56,039 the proper advice because it said this guy, Carlos montell 323 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,799 is his name, circled the airport eight times while working 324 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,319 on the steering column with the screwdriver, trying to get 325 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,720 the landing gear to go down. He eventually got it 326 00:22:07,839 --> 00:22:12,240 to go down and he landed, and then he was 327 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,319 tested for drugs and alcohol tested negative, and two days 328 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,000 later they did tests to see if flying at that 329 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:27,200 altitude made him hallucinate, and the doctor determined that his 330 00:22:27,839 --> 00:22:31,759 high it's low blood sugar because he skipped breakfast, was 331 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:38,079 probably the cost of his hallucination quote unquote. So that's 332 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,359 all you get in the Apro story. So it's a 333 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,599 great UFO story. But then there's the Men in Black 334 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,039 story afterwards, and the Men in Black story shows up 335 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:53,759 in the beuforea publication, which is where I came upon 336 00:22:53,839 --> 00:22:56,720 it first, and then I can usually, you know, if 337 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,079 I find a date, Apro is a great place to go. 338 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,759 And by the way, David Marler has the APRO collection 339 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:12,759 in his archives finally after many years. But anyway, April 340 00:23:12,839 --> 00:23:14,240 is a great place to go to because they were 341 00:23:14,279 --> 00:23:17,799 in existence from nineteen fifty two to nineteen eighty eight, 342 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:23,480 I believe, and put out a regular publication, I mean, 343 00:23:24,279 --> 00:23:28,440 which is rare with a lot of organizations. So whenever 344 00:23:28,559 --> 00:23:31,680 I see a date within that time period, I'll go 345 00:23:31,799 --> 00:23:34,720 to the APRO bulletin because they'll probably have something on it. 346 00:23:34,839 --> 00:23:38,279 And sure enough they did. But it was interesting was 347 00:23:38,319 --> 00:23:41,599 that it didn't include the men in black. So then 348 00:23:43,319 --> 00:23:47,000 since it all started the before a publication, I go 349 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,839 back and do that. And then I look at the 350 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:55,680 reference in the before a publication and it says Timothy 351 00:23:55,759 --> 00:24:01,160 green Beckley's book The UFO Silencers. And Timothy green Beckley 352 00:24:01,279 --> 00:24:05,160 was quite a character himself, called himself mister UFO. He 353 00:24:05,279 --> 00:24:07,839 is also known as mister Creepo because he put out 354 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:20,119 soft court porn. But he he can you can kind 355 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:25,680 of trust him on a certain level. But what he 356 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,920 basically what's cool is he interviewed Jayalen. Heine got involved 357 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,480 with this whole thing because he was in Mexico two 358 00:24:32,519 --> 00:24:40,240 months afterwards and he got in touch with Carlos Montel 359 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,440 and said, hey, you know, can you come to my 360 00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:51,440 hotel and talk about this? And he agreed, and well, 361 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,279 he first had an encounter when he was going to 362 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,640 Montile had an m IB encounter, according to before publication, 363 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:07,480 on his way to do a television interview, reluctantly quote unquote, 364 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:16,400 and he saw a black Ford galaxy in front of him. 365 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,240 It pulled up in front of him and then he 366 00:25:19,319 --> 00:25:22,559 looked in his mirror and not identical. Ford Galaxy was 367 00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:26,160 in the back of him, both described as limousines and 368 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,640 brand new, and they forced him to pull over and 369 00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:32,680 he was going to get out of his car when 370 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:37,599 he sold four men in black come out of the 371 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,279 cars and come towards him. One came to his door, 372 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,079 put his hand on it and prevented him from coming out, 373 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:50,880 and that man told him, you know, basically, don't talk 374 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,599 about what you've seen if you care about your family. 375 00:25:56,079 --> 00:26:00,920 And he was intimidated enough that he turned around and 376 00:26:02,079 --> 00:26:04,680 skid out and went back home and didn't do the interview. 377 00:26:05,039 --> 00:26:14,279 He did end up the television host reached out to him. 378 00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:23,720 They got in touch and that Carlos told his story 379 00:26:23,759 --> 00:26:27,440 about the men in black, and the television host that, oh, 380 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:33,119 I've heard this from other witnesses, and he did. He 381 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,680 managed to convince Mantel to go and actually do an interview, 382 00:26:38,759 --> 00:26:42,079 and he did without incident. And then two months later 383 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:49,960 Jalen Heinich in Mexico contacted him and invited him to 384 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,119 come talk to him. He went to go to Heinech's 385 00:26:54,839 --> 00:26:57,640 hotel and as he was walking up the steps, one 386 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,720 of the men men in black came up to him 387 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:12,079 and pushed him back sharply several feet and threatened him 388 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,440 and his family if he talked about it. And once 389 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:21,799 again Montel decided to go home. And then, but what's 390 00:27:21,839 --> 00:27:25,799 funny is once again Heinik contacted and said, hey, you know, 391 00:27:26,759 --> 00:27:29,000 I'm sorry about the men in black? Do you want 392 00:27:29,039 --> 00:27:31,640 to still come talk to me? He said, okay, and 393 00:27:31,799 --> 00:27:33,640 he did so he interviewed him for two hours. So 394 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,400 apparently the men in black, I'll talk in no action. 395 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: So that's funny. 396 00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:48,559 Speaker 2: But he but then Heinich invited him for breakfast. He 397 00:27:48,759 --> 00:27:51,599 talked to him on a Saturday, invited him for breakfast 398 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:57,279 on a Monday, and he didn't show. And then he 399 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:03,240 contacted Heinich and said, yeah, that guy showed up again, 400 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,920 told me not to come, so I didn't. But you know, 401 00:28:07,079 --> 00:28:12,079 so that story, this, all the stuff about Heinich comes 402 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:17,839 from Timothy Green Beckley who interviewed Heinich and yeah, has 403 00:28:18,079 --> 00:28:23,480 Heinich's statement, you know, verbatim in his book. But it 404 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,039 was really funny, is it afterwards? Not funny? But weird 405 00:28:28,079 --> 00:28:30,960 is that afterwards he has Heinich telling him a story 406 00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:36,359 about I think a couple who encountered men in black 407 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,039 and then they got into their car and then their 408 00:28:39,119 --> 00:28:44,000 car as it was driving disappeared. And this is Heinich talking. 409 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,920 So anyway, so I'll probably right about that later. 410 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,119 Speaker 1: Wow. Now this is one of the things that when 411 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,599 I was listening to you tell talk about the encounter, 412 00:28:57,279 --> 00:29:00,200 the purported encounter, how much are reminded me of the 413 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:06,640 Frederick Valentich incident and that happened in nineteen seventy eight. 414 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,400 But it's there is a lot of similarities to these encounters. 415 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, there is actually now that you mention it, and 416 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,759 there's that noise except you know, I mean, yeah, the 417 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,920 scraping was saying that that was the last thing they heard, 418 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,119 supposedly and him's you know, kind of screaming. 419 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: It's it's not an airplane, you know that that type 420 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:32,160 of situation. So this this guy whatever, I mean. It's 421 00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:36,240 so it's four years apart and a very similar story. 422 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,119 Very yeah, definitely again one I've never heard of. So 423 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,640 I want to talk about this this blog because this 424 00:29:43,799 --> 00:29:46,720 was more of a contemporary blog that you wrote, and 425 00:29:47,599 --> 00:29:53,279 that was basically another problematic report UFO report originating on 426 00:29:53,359 --> 00:29:56,960 social media. And the reason I'm bringing this up too. 427 00:29:57,119 --> 00:30:01,119 First of all, it's one of your contemporary blogs that 428 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,039 you wrote. And the other thing is, you know, we 429 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,319 really do have We're in an age right now where 430 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:14,960 there is it's so hard to trust information and when 431 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,799 it comes to not just social media, but you know 432 00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:21,000 what I mean, I have to tell you that I 433 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:29,319 saw the new Sora, which is you know, the AI 434 00:30:29,799 --> 00:30:33,240 the Sora too and what you can text in there. 435 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,279 And first of all, you watch the video of that, 436 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,680 and it says in the very beginning, it says, this 437 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,720 is all made through Sora, the whole thing, and you're 438 00:30:42,759 --> 00:30:45,599 looking at people that are so realistic, you know, for 439 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,119 every little you know, like maybe a pimple on the 440 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,960 head or everything is like so like a human being. 441 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,440 And it's all AI all the way through telling you 442 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,319 about its capabilities and what I'm getting at. It's not 443 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,920 just social media, but you know, there's so many things 444 00:31:01,119 --> 00:31:04,640 on social media that are fake and people are buying 445 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,720 it for one hundred percent, and it's going to get 446 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,720 a lot worse when people start using that AI. 447 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, there are people going into mental hospitals 448 00:31:12,759 --> 00:31:14,960 because they had cheap. 449 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: Do you mean, because are you talking about because of 450 00:31:20,039 --> 00:31:22,079 the companions and things like that that. 451 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,599 Speaker 2: They're there are people like you know, texting you know, 452 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,640 who is God, you know, and asking all these spiritual 453 00:31:28,759 --> 00:31:34,799 questions and getting answers and believing them, and they're going nuts. 454 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,240 And yeah, there's a lot of people ending up in 455 00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:42,759 mental hospitals. Okay, at least according to what I've seen 456 00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:46,440 on the internet. So yeah, I haven't done proper research 457 00:31:46,519 --> 00:31:50,920 on that, folks. So but I've seen this on Daily Grail. 458 00:31:51,319 --> 00:31:56,079 I tend to trust them. And one of the comments 459 00:31:56,119 --> 00:31:59,559 I saw was that, you know, if anything else had 460 00:31:59,599 --> 00:32:03,559 been introduced into the world that caused this many people 461 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,559 to go into mental hospitals, it would have been banned something. 462 00:32:08,519 --> 00:32:13,359 But you know, uh, something to consider. But yeah, like 463 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:19,240 I said it, I mean, it's really difficult these days. 464 00:32:19,319 --> 00:32:26,559 But what what I think in this blog? What's I do? 465 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:31,359 Go to metabunk a lot, uh for contemporary cases, and 466 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,680 you know, I think it's really good that we have 467 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,000 people looking out for this kind of stuff. I you know, 468 00:32:40,759 --> 00:32:47,440 and the title of the site metabunk, you know, as 469 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,240 in de bunkers. I I've heard the argument that, you know, 470 00:32:52,319 --> 00:32:55,960 there's a difference between the skeptic and a debunker, whereas 471 00:32:56,039 --> 00:33:00,799 a debunker has already believes this is real, and it's 472 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,200 just going to look for anything to prove it's not real, 473 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,720 as opposed to a skeptic who's you know, got an 474 00:33:08,759 --> 00:33:09,759 eye out for hoaxes. 475 00:33:11,319 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: And I think that's important. 476 00:33:12,519 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 2: You know. 477 00:33:12,759 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: The thing, a lot of people can't stand Metabunk and 478 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,319 Mickwest and all that, but you know, he he does 479 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,440 get some things wrong, but he's actually, like you said, 480 00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:28,400 there's there's there's enough really interesting, fascinating things out there 481 00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:33,960 that you know, we need to know what the real 482 00:33:34,079 --> 00:33:37,480 stuff is compared to the stuff that, oh, well this is. 483 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,000 You know, it's disappointing. Yes, sometimes you find out an 484 00:33:41,039 --> 00:33:43,359 answer to something. You know, we want to hold on 485 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,279 to our beliefs. But when we find out an answer 486 00:33:46,359 --> 00:33:49,440 to some really good case that we've thought was really 487 00:33:49,559 --> 00:33:53,039 solid and we find out, oh, well here's the real answer, 488 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:54,640 and it's very very disappointing. 489 00:33:55,079 --> 00:33:57,039 Speaker 2: Well it keeps us honest. And you know what, actually, 490 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:04,000 I I'll counter that you're you're the idea that it's 491 00:34:04,119 --> 00:34:07,960 disappointing what I find that something so hoax. At least 492 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,679 I've got an answer, Yeah, you know what I mean. 493 00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:16,239 And I'll often find the hoaxes. You know, they're at 494 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,480 least often funny. You know, you got to have a 495 00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:22,480 sense of humor with this stuff, where you're going to 496 00:34:22,519 --> 00:34:29,519 go nuts, you know. But yeah, and and and then 497 00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:36,880 and another thing, you know is that the danger of 498 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:42,559 this becoming a religion, you know, is is always present. 499 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:50,440 And a good example is the Linna Napolitano case. All right, 500 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,400 oh yeah, that case is ridiculous. I don't care what 501 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,559 anybody says, and I'll stick my neck out on this. Okay, 502 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,960 it's a soap uh a UFO abduction, soap opera, the 503 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:10,400 with no witnesses. The only witnesses were on tape and mail. 504 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:18,320 Bud Hopkins never met the policeman who said they witnessed this. Okay, 505 00:35:18,639 --> 00:35:21,480 he never met the person on the Brooklyn Bridge who 506 00:35:21,559 --> 00:35:26,320 said she witnessed, you know, Linna Napolitano being dragged out 507 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:31,400 of her twelfth floor apartment into a UFO over the 508 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:31,960 East River. 509 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: And what about the diplomat there was some diplomat. 510 00:35:35,559 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, well he's never said that he saw anything, and 511 00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:43,320 he was just named. He denied it as a matter 512 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,760 of fact, I believe. But you know, a big thing 513 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:53,360 is that Hanson, I forget his first name. He wrote 514 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:59,000 the Trickster in the Paranormal George Hanson, I believe. But 515 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,239 he went out and actually did some research on this 516 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:10,119 whole thing. He found that the guys who claimed to 517 00:36:10,159 --> 00:36:15,320 be cops bringing the diplomat, they claimed to be bringing 518 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,679 the diplomat to a helicopter at a certain time in 519 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,800 the morning. I think it was really early morning. And 520 00:36:22,159 --> 00:36:29,199 George Hansen found that the helicopters didn't there, didn't operate 521 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,039 at that time. He also found that nobody at the 522 00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:36,559 apartment building saw anything. There was a twenty four hour 523 00:36:36,679 --> 00:36:41,719 security guard there. I also found that Hopkins, Bud Hopkins, 524 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,960 was this was his starcase for quite a while. Hopkins, 525 00:36:47,679 --> 00:36:55,400 apparently a guy matching hopkins description was described by the 526 00:36:55,519 --> 00:36:58,280 security guard. There is coming down and you know, asking 527 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:06,440 some questions. Yeah it is George Hansen, excellent. So and 528 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,320 not only that, Hanson found that Hopkins didn't know what 529 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,519 the weather was and a lot of really basic questions 530 00:37:15,199 --> 00:37:21,760 that you know, anybody reading a UFO Investigator's manual would know. 531 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:28,679 Hopkins didn't answer any of these questions. So ask any 532 00:37:28,679 --> 00:37:33,239 of the ask any of the those didn't know, like 533 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,840 basic stuff like what was the weather and what was this? 534 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:41,639 What was that? But anyway, a big thing in this 535 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,920 case also was that Napolitano claimed to have been abducted 536 00:37:46,039 --> 00:37:50,760 by one of these policemen and the other guy reportedly 537 00:37:51,119 --> 00:37:53,639 went to save her. And the big thing that you know, 538 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,519 makes you just go get the f out of here 539 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:04,719 is that one of the guys, the police officers, claimed 540 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,039 that he and paul A Tano had a relationship that 541 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,039 only was on the spaceships and that he was the 542 00:38:13,159 --> 00:38:16,400 father of her children. And you know she was married 543 00:38:16,679 --> 00:38:21,719 at the time, so you just go, Okay, you know, 544 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:30,320 this is effing ridiculous. But Hanson h went to wald Andres. Okay, 545 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,679 so Hopkins was a member of Moufon. Wald Andres was 546 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,960 the director of Moufon, and Hopkins went to Andrews and 547 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,559 you know, I was like, hey, you know that that 548 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,199 they had to sit down and said, there are a 549 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,840 lot of problems with this case. There's this, there's this, 550 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:51,320 there's this or this, And he actually wrote a paper. 551 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,480 So you can find the paper by George Hansen about 552 00:38:54,559 --> 00:39:00,639 this whole thing and get the facts, like probably much 553 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,039 better than I'm espousing him now from the top of 554 00:39:04,119 --> 00:39:10,519 my head. But a big thing was that they didn't 555 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:16,960 want to rock the boat. This was Hopkins's starcase. It 556 00:39:17,199 --> 00:39:20,320 was like, this is a case that I'll really turn 557 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,360 the public around. Man'll make them believers. And that's the thing, 558 00:39:25,159 --> 00:39:28,440 you know, wanting to make believers, and that that's also 559 00:39:28,559 --> 00:39:31,360 a thing you find in a lot of UFO books 560 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:36,079 and a lot of documentaries is UFO evangelists. And I 561 00:39:36,199 --> 00:39:38,239 think that's what I was going for when I said 562 00:39:38,599 --> 00:39:41,719 danger of becoming a religion. It's more like UFO evangelists. 563 00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:45,000 You know, these people want to convince people. This is 564 00:39:45,079 --> 00:39:47,519 real man. You should take it seriously. And you know what, 565 00:39:50,639 --> 00:39:58,599 unless somebody's really experienced something they're they're not going to 566 00:39:58,639 --> 00:40:02,760 believe it. No matter what you say to him, they'll 567 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:09,559 probably be I mean, I'll backtrack on that. Maybe you 568 00:40:09,679 --> 00:40:14,679 can get them interested, intrigued, but ultimately to make people believers, 569 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,039 I think that people have to experience with them for themselves. 570 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,599 But in any case, what George Hansen's thing really brought 571 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:31,199 up was there is this element in ufology of UFO 572 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:39,639 evangelism and people not wanting anything that you know, puts 573 00:40:39,679 --> 00:40:44,519 a black mark on U will believed to come through. 574 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,239 And I think you got to look at You've got 575 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,360 to look at everything, and you got to look at people. 576 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:59,119 Oh his name isn't coming to me. He was a 577 00:40:59,159 --> 00:41:02,760 guy after Don Mental Donald, Donald Menzel was a big 578 00:41:03,599 --> 00:41:04,400 vote debunker. 579 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:06,639 Speaker 1: I think it was Harvard. 580 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, who was the guy after him who put out 581 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:15,760 the skeptics Philip Class Philip Class. Yes, yeah, And you 582 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,360 know what a lot of people are like, Philip Class 583 00:41:18,639 --> 00:41:22,880 is like, you know, evil. But I've read a lot 584 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,559 of his stuff, and a lot of his stuff is 585 00:41:25,639 --> 00:41:29,079 on point, you know, a lot of it is. He 586 00:41:29,199 --> 00:41:31,239 did a lot of terrible things too, like he tried 587 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:32,199 to I think he tried to. 588 00:41:32,199 --> 00:41:36,199 Speaker 1: Bribe uh Stephen from Travis Walton. 589 00:41:36,199 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so you know he yeah, he definitely 590 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:45,039 and he also really came down on James McDonald as well. 591 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 1: It was a wonderful researcher. 592 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,199 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and and uh so you know, he did 593 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,079 some terrible things, but he actually did write some very 594 00:41:56,159 --> 00:42:00,400 poignant things too, and he definitely gave insight into some 595 00:42:00,599 --> 00:42:03,920 very iffy UFO cases. So, you know, I think it's 596 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:10,440 really important not to become, you know, a believer at 597 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:11,639 all costs. You know. 598 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I think San Freeman used to say something 599 00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:18,000 like have an open mind, but not so open that 600 00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:20,719 your brain falls out of your head or something like that. Yeah, 601 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,960 some type of saying like that, which I think was 602 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,519 was pretty funny and and pretty good. And so I 603 00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:30,679 do think that we do need we do need some 604 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,519 balance that, you know, when something can be explained. I 605 00:42:34,599 --> 00:42:36,760 think it's I think you're right to your point you said. 606 00:42:37,079 --> 00:42:39,639 I think it's good that we have an answer, you know, 607 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,119 for whatever can be answered, But there's still plenty of 608 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,880 unknowns that will you know, are just big, huge puzzles 609 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:52,239 that are just amazing and not not our current technology, 610 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,280 you know. I think of all the big cases, and 611 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,880 one of them I don't really talk about enough is 612 00:42:58,079 --> 00:43:02,039 the j J A. Well, I can't remember the case 613 00:43:02,639 --> 00:43:04,840 j L sixteen twenty five or something like that. 614 00:43:05,639 --> 00:43:09,039 Speaker 2: I think there's sevens in that. I know you're talking 615 00:43:09,039 --> 00:43:14,480 about that, the Japanese plane. Yeah, so that one in particular, 616 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,000 very important mission too. I think they were had a 617 00:43:20,119 --> 00:43:20,920 cargo full of. 618 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,760 Speaker 1: Oh is that really? Is that right? Yeah? So that 619 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,440 was a terror, terre gucci terror something like that. 620 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an amazing case. 621 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,119 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I mean so there and these are things 622 00:43:37,159 --> 00:43:40,920 that were, you know, seeing multiple witnesses radar all that. 623 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,760 I mean, there's really really a lot of weird things 624 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,159 going on. But I want to get back to this 625 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,480 case in particular, because when I started talking kind of going, 626 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,679 I went off on a rant. And so what was 627 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,639 the social media's issue? 628 00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 2: Was this? 629 00:43:57,599 --> 00:44:01,079 Speaker 1: Was this a Reddit thing that that started the whole 630 00:44:01,119 --> 00:44:03,559 situation or can you kind of explain what happened here 631 00:44:04,159 --> 00:44:06,800 and this and what the case was in particular, this 632 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,320 was only I don't know, six seven months ago or 633 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:19,920 last year in December trying to see yeah it was December. Wow, 634 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,599 when you wrote the blog was December? 635 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 2: What's the name of the blog? I'm going to have 636 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:24,960 to bring it up. 637 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:31,719 Speaker 1: Another problematic UFO report originating on social media. And really 638 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,800 what I wanted to talk to you about is how 639 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,280 these things can get carried away and you know when 640 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,840 people read things and you know, fiction becomes truth. This 641 00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:48,679 was at the Manchester Airport, was it al? Yes, it's 642 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:55,239 a blue orb and it happened November twenty four supposedly. 643 00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:00,559 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm searching for it because yeah, I mean, you 644 00:45:00,639 --> 00:45:03,119 know what's funny is I know, I'm just throwing this 645 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,760 at you yeah, okay, so what do you want to 646 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:06,159 know about it? 647 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,719 Speaker 1: No, I'm just saying, here's a situation where we really 648 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,679 have to watch the future because you know, there's so much. 649 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,880 I mean, every day there's I get people send me 650 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:20,079 stuff all day long, a few different people that are 651 00:45:20,159 --> 00:45:22,559 longtime listeners of the show, and there's so much on 652 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,400 social media. But there's so many things today that are 653 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,480 it's clickbait and you know, trying to get you to believe. Like, 654 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:35,039 you know, there's the on Facebook. For instance, there's the 655 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:40,199 James Webb Telescope Facebook site and it just showed pictures 656 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,719 of a flying saucer with lighted windows everything, and saying 657 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,920 that the James Webb Telescope just took this picture. You know, 658 00:45:49,079 --> 00:45:52,360 so someone put up puts up at bogus James web 659 00:45:53,039 --> 00:45:57,000 Telescope site on Facebook. They get away with it and 660 00:45:57,039 --> 00:45:59,360 they start posting that and that it's going to crash 661 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,800 on Earth and you know all this crazy. 662 00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:04,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think I know. One thing I I 663 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,840 wrote about this is the most obvious problem with this 664 00:46:09,039 --> 00:46:13,079 report and most others that have social media as their origin, 665 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,960 is that the source is unnamed. 666 00:46:17,079 --> 00:46:19,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, what do you do with that? 667 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,639 Speaker 2: You need, you need somebody to follow up on it. 668 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:28,280 Interview the source, Where were you? Who are you? You know, 669 00:46:28,599 --> 00:46:31,960 are you credible? And you know, talk to people that 670 00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:35,679 know them. I mean, that's a typical UFO report from 671 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,960 you know, back in the day, you know, the you know, 672 00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:46,679 like a Heinich with Joe Simonton and the freaking pancakes, 673 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:53,679 you know. Yeah, he claimed that a saucer landed in 674 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:58,280 his driveway and he have to see who they were 675 00:46:58,519 --> 00:47:04,159 and saw four swore the guys like Italians, and one 676 00:47:04,199 --> 00:47:07,159 of them asked, made gestures like he wanted a drink 677 00:47:07,199 --> 00:47:09,360 of water. So Simon Tan went and got him water. 678 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:15,119 And he sees one guy cooking what looked like pancakes, 679 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,280 and the guy he gave the water too, looked at him, 680 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,920 looked at the pancakes and said, okay here and gave 681 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,360 him four pancakes. And then the saucer took off. And 682 00:47:25,559 --> 00:47:28,880 that's this guy's story. And this went out to NICAP, 683 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:38,519 but the the Air Force, Robert Friend was directing Project 684 00:47:38,559 --> 00:47:42,519 Blue Book at the time, and he was worried that 685 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:49,119 Nightcap was going to accuse the Aircraft Force of neglecting 686 00:47:49,199 --> 00:47:51,519 the stories. So he said, you better get down or 687 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:56,199 jaleen Inik and Jaleenik took two of his graduate students down. 688 00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:59,519 And the pictures are adorable. It's actually my book, The 689 00:47:59,639 --> 00:48:05,039 Flying Saucer Investigators, second edition. But and the pictures, the 690 00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:10,280 picture that there, it's adorable. These guys like on Simonton's 691 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:17,280 farm and checking things out. But Heinig interviewed Simonton and 692 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,519 then but when he was out at a restaurant with Simonton, 693 00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,400 went to the bar and talked to the guys at 694 00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,039 the bar, Hey, what do you know about this Joe 695 00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:32,960 Simonton guy, and found out you know, hey, if he 696 00:48:33,119 --> 00:48:35,440 says he saw it, he saw it. You know, basically 697 00:48:35,639 --> 00:48:39,719 got an assessment of his character. But you know, the 698 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,119 witness is named you can go down there hello Joe 699 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,840 and Martin showing me a picture of Joe with his pancake, 700 00:48:47,599 --> 00:48:50,679 which is pretty nasty looking thing looks more like a. 701 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,239 Speaker 1: Uherries in it or something. 702 00:48:54,719 --> 00:49:00,400 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, but anyway, uh, but yeah, it's not only 703 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:06,480 investigated by Heinech, it was investigated by APRO and yeah, anyway, 704 00:49:06,519 --> 00:49:11,039 and the FDA got involved as well thanks to Heinich. 705 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,400 So there is an FDA report on what was on 706 00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,360 a pancakes and it was basically what you'd find in 707 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:21,719 a buckwheat pancake. But you know, my point is, at 708 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,159 least they went and interviewed the witness. 709 00:49:24,639 --> 00:49:26,079 Speaker 1: Yea, And. 710 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:35,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't. I guess move On's doing it. I 711 00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,039 don't presently have a move On subscription, so I haven't 712 00:49:39,039 --> 00:49:42,440 been reading their magazine lately, so I imagine they're still 713 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,119 out there doing it. But you know, it'd be nice 714 00:49:45,159 --> 00:49:50,239 to see more organizations come up and younger people coming 715 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,760 up that are willing to go out and do something. 716 00:49:53,079 --> 00:49:55,800 I'm sure there are people out there doing field work. Yeah, 717 00:49:56,599 --> 00:49:59,440 but nobody's putting anything out that I can find. And 718 00:49:59,559 --> 00:50:03,920 if any buddy is, please let me know. Yeah, find 719 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:08,760 me a sacerologist at gmail dot com. I would love 720 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,280 to hear from you, man. I would love to write 721 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:19,000 about contemporary reports, but you know, the history and as 722 00:50:19,079 --> 00:50:24,159 an historian though, it's I I don't have to worry 723 00:50:24,199 --> 00:50:26,760 about belief, I don't have to worry about finding an answer, 724 00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:30,039 and I get to relate a good story. 725 00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:32,639 Speaker 1: That's right. You just put it out there and people 726 00:50:32,679 --> 00:50:35,519 can make up their own mind. You know, that's basically it. 727 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:40,760 And I think I personally think, you know, when we 728 00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,719 talk about the pancakes, I personally think that the really 729 00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,480 weird stories, a lot of them have a lot of credibility, 730 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,280 almost like the weirder the better. 731 00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:54,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm totally down with that. I mean, especially the 732 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:59,000 Simonton case. I love that. Yeah. But but I mean, 733 00:50:59,079 --> 00:51:02,400 you know, it's far as you go. I mean, you know, 734 00:51:02,599 --> 00:51:05,559 one thing that really attracted me to your show to 735 00:51:05,639 --> 00:51:11,320 begin with. And by the way, folks, Martin is the 736 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,559 guy who gave me the first place to write, and 737 00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,360 also the guy who hooked me up with my first publisher, 738 00:51:17,639 --> 00:51:27,920 Philip Glass. So no Mantle Mantle, God, I said Glass 739 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:33,840 and not class Philip Mantle. Yeah, but anyway, thank you Martin. 740 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:34,480 Speaker 1: Uh. 741 00:51:35,039 --> 00:51:37,440 Speaker 2: But you know, I was always attracted your show because 742 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:43,920 you managed to stay neutral, you know, and and just 743 00:51:44,159 --> 00:51:48,320 listen to your guests. And you've got a range from 744 00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:57,039 who to nuts and bolts, and you managed to listen 745 00:51:57,079 --> 00:51:59,960 to them all. And there's only been a couple of 746 00:52:00,039 --> 00:52:06,599 occasions where you've kicked people off, which was amazing, when 747 00:52:06,639 --> 00:52:08,840 they just got too much and it was just like, 748 00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,760 you know, I can't take this anymore. You've got to go. 749 00:52:13,559 --> 00:52:17,320 But you know, You've got a really open mind and 750 00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,599 a wide range, and you know that's that's too much appreciated, 751 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:26,639 and that's what attracted me to your show. And you 752 00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:36,079 know it's I I think, you know, you're part of 753 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:47,119 a breed of podcasters that you know includes like it's 754 00:52:47,199 --> 00:52:50,079 kind of a legacy of Greg Bishop with the excluded 755 00:52:50,159 --> 00:52:54,239 middle kind of idea, you know, where you know you 756 00:52:54,599 --> 00:52:58,519 can hang in the middle and just listen to all 757 00:52:58,599 --> 00:53:00,960 points of view and can say all points of view. 758 00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,039 Speaker 1: And hey, if I'm put in the same category as 759 00:53:06,119 --> 00:53:08,719 Greg Bishop, I think that's a total honor because I 760 00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,519 think a great deal of great Greg Bishop. 761 00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:16,159 Speaker 2: Oh good, yeah, yeah, he's he He's been a major 762 00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:20,320 influence on like what's going on now? You know, it's funny. 763 00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:27,079 I was listening to it interview on where did the 764 00:53:27,199 --> 00:53:31,880 Road Go? I forget the guy's name, but he wrote 765 00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,679 a book called The Rabbit Hole Experience I believe it 766 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:42,440 was called. But he's talking about the subject of nuts 767 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,639 and bolts. UFOs came up. He actually said, well, I 768 00:53:46,679 --> 00:53:52,039 believe that's fallen out of favor. I thought that was 769 00:53:52,119 --> 00:53:52,760 pretty funny. 770 00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:57,039 Speaker 1: That is, that's hilarious, falling out of favor. 771 00:53:57,079 --> 00:54:01,320 Speaker 2: Okay, uh, you know, I think is still an open question. 772 00:54:03,639 --> 00:54:10,599 But yeah, but you know it's but the idea that 773 00:54:13,559 --> 00:54:21,280 it might not be is definitely I think gaining popularity. 774 00:54:22,679 --> 00:54:24,679 But at the same time, you know, I know you 775 00:54:25,119 --> 00:54:31,199 love to go to these congressional things, the UFO hearings, 776 00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,920 and I can understand. I mean, it's historical, it's got 777 00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:39,440 to be exciting. But I mean, you know, what's your 778 00:54:39,599 --> 00:54:41,639 take on it? You know, do you think we're going 779 00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:43,760 to get disclosure. 780 00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:47,519 Speaker 1: Or yeah, And we've only got a couple of minutes left, 781 00:54:47,559 --> 00:54:49,400 just let you know. And I'm putting your book up here, 782 00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,960 and your book, The Flying Sauces Investigators second Edition here 783 00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,519 is going to be linked in this podcast, So you know, 784 00:54:57,679 --> 00:55:01,840 I have I have mixed feelings. 785 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:02,639 Speaker 2: You know. 786 00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:08,119 Speaker 1: I thought the last hearing was very good and I 787 00:55:08,559 --> 00:55:11,840 was not able to attend that one, and I think 788 00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,760 it's really important that this information gets out there, there's 789 00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,880 more awareness of it. I think that's all very important. 790 00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:20,199 I did feel like it was the first one was 791 00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,920 very felt very historical, you know that it felt like 792 00:55:24,159 --> 00:55:25,519 I mean, I felt like I was so glad to 793 00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:31,559 be there and all that. But I don't think that 794 00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:37,320 we're going to see us move right into like a disclosure. 795 00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:39,119 You know, I don't think that's I think there's just 796 00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,280 my personal thoughts are is that how can they disclose 797 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,519 something that they don't know everything about? And someone might 798 00:55:46,679 --> 00:55:49,960 argue with me that, you know, they I do believe 799 00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,719 that maybe some parts of the government or some parts 800 00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,880 of some type of association to the government, knows a 801 00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,039 lot more than we do, but not the full picture. 802 00:55:59,119 --> 00:56:02,519 That's my that's my belief. Whether it's right or wrong, 803 00:56:02,639 --> 00:56:05,719 it's an opinion. Yeah, So I think because of that, 804 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,519 because of that, we can't really get the full picture. 805 00:56:09,559 --> 00:56:12,960 We can't get disclosure until we have you know, some 806 00:56:13,079 --> 00:56:14,920 people call it what do they call it? A forced 807 00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,400 disclosure or a critical disclosure? I can't remember what they 808 00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,079 call it. When something is like forced upon us, like 809 00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,599 like one of those movies where the UFO show up 810 00:56:25,599 --> 00:56:28,480 all over the world, you know, or something like that. 811 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,280 You know, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. 812 00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:35,199 Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm of the same opinion. I actually, you know, 813 00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:41,800 I I think the UFO researchers know more than the government, 814 00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,480 quite frankly, because they've been looking at it seriously for 815 00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:50,960 a lot longer. And yeah, for instance, David Marler's archive. Yeah, 816 00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,079 you can find an amazing amount of data. 817 00:56:53,599 --> 00:56:56,039 Speaker 1: Well, it's amazing. When I had this conversation, we're really 818 00:56:56,079 --> 00:56:58,119 out of time. But when I had the conversation, I 819 00:56:58,199 --> 00:57:00,519 had the conversation with him the other day, talked about 820 00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:04,719 the D O D and the DJ very interested in 821 00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:05,599 looking at. 822 00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,360 Speaker 2: The what you should be that's pretty important. That's where 823 00:57:08,559 --> 00:57:10,719 most of the data is as far as I'm concerned, 824 00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:15,360 that's my opinion. But anyway, Martin, it's always a pleasure 825 00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:15,880 to talk to. 826 00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:16,880 Speaker 1: You very much. 827 00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,519 Speaker 2: Yes, and I hope to see you in the flash 828 00:57:19,559 --> 00:57:22,400 one of these days soon again. Yes, if we're going 829 00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,280 to go to Fine Bush, yeah. 830 00:57:24,159 --> 00:57:27,639 Speaker 1: Again, I will be Yeah. All right everyone, Okay, thank you, 831 00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,320 and we have to close out the show and look 832 00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,119 for our show hopefully this Thursday, but I'm not really 833 00:57:33,159 --> 00:57:35,159 sure if it's going to happen from Sedona, but I'll 834 00:57:35,199 --> 00:57:38,360 be back next week and remember to keep your eyes 835 00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:39,000 to the sky. 836 00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:02,360 Speaker 2: W