Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio network, the best
in paranormal talk radio in the UK and around the world.
Scary Era Era is the Irish or Gaelic word for Ireland.
Paranormal means all the things that are impossible to explain
by non natural forces or by science, and Ireland is
steep and lower, ghosts, blood, sweat, tears, sacrifice, hunger, desperation
and charm. Oh and the paranormal. Welcome to Scary Era,
Mark Manning Well, strap me to a pig and roll
me in the mud? Can you believe we are four
Scary Era shows in since we launched on the highly
appropriate date of Halloween, And indeed, my thanks to Mark
Johnson of Paranormal UK Radio for allowing it all happen now.
It may be a sunny December day in Dublin, but
we'll soon get dark and cozy. Incidentally, if this is
your first time listening, remember the first three shows featured
everything from Ireland's ancient East to the paranormal anomalies of
an Irish military barracks, to dead air of sorts and
a top Dublin radio station and Scottish and Irish castles
at stately homes were all discussed too, so do check
those shows out. Simply google Scary Era. That's EI or
E Paranormal podcast. Now I need your contributions and it
helps if they are Irish related, but don't let that
exclude you. If you've a supernatural xpialidocian story to share,
just simply email it to Paranormal Ireland and at ProtonMail
dot com. Remember you can arrange that I interview you,
or you just tell it and I'll read it out.
Or why not get technical and send a little MP
three or an M four A off your phone and
just send it to the same address Paranormal Ireland at
ProtonMail dot com. That's how it works, walkie talkie cop
it the morning in the bottom of the evening. Two
super interesting guests today. Shortly he's not only a teacher
but author two and he's standing by to reveal all
about his new haunting publication. And if you stick around,
our second guest doesn't just bear the name of a
global and historic cocktail brand, but in his own right,
he has many creative talents, one of which is a filmmaker.
He'll be relating scary goings on on the Belgian Dutch
border in the nineties and revealing how he conducted a
clever experiment on three separate mediums in an attempt to
get to the truth with surprising results. Our first guest
is raring to go, but first let it up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a couple of things over the years. But
I've learned, well I don't. I suppose it's not learned.
I've just become accustomed to it. And I think it's
kind of it's maybe it's another sense or something. But
often when you go into places, you'll get a feeling
for the place, and you'll get a feeling of whether
or not it's comfortable. And whatever cause is that. Who
knows what causes that. But we have an intuition. We
have an inbuilt intuition. I can't describe what it is
or where it comes from, or the physics of it
or the chemistry of it.
Speaker 1: But it's there.
Speaker 2: And anybody will will tell you to stick with your intuition.
If you think something doesn't feel right, then don't hang around.
Speaker 3: Superb advice from regular contributor to Scary Era, David McGlynn
aka the Squire, And don't hang around either. If you've
got an Irish paranormal tale to tell. Simply email Paranormal
Ireland at proton mail dot com and it'll be read
out for you. Poor you get to teletone yourself. That's
Paranormal Ireland at proton male dot com.
Speaker 1: Well, I never thought i'd see the day when Manning
would meet Fanning on the other end of the line.
I've got author extraordinary, particularly in the children's realm, Kiron Fanning.
How are you doing, Kiron?
Speaker 4: Not too bad, Mark, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Well, it's a pleasure because we have a little bit
of selling to do here, because I've seen your latest publication.
What's it called.
Speaker 4: It's called Haunted Ireland and Atlas of ghost stories from
every county age group.
Speaker 1: Who are we talking? Who's this aimed at?
Speaker 5: Is?
Speaker 4: It's kind of aimed a kind of yeah, children, but
it's kind of a family book, like a lot of
adults are reading it, so it's kind of for twe
ten plus kind of designed to appeal to adults as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been there when you're reading a little story
to the child and she starts to go or he
starts to go to sleep, and this isn't so bad. Yeah,
and your own background. Where do you hail from?
Speaker 4: Originally here, I'm from Wicklow, originally west Wicklow, a small
little place called Stratford on Slane Eat near bolting Glass,
west Wicklow, and I'm living in County Mead.
Speaker 1: Now at the moment, were you of the land or
on a farm or what? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, farm farming background, sheep farm, a very rural background,
traditional Irish Catholic upbringing. But I wasn't much good on
the farm. I was, in fact, I was kind of
useless on the farm. So I was much more interested
in the world of the imagination and drawing and playing
games and writing stories and anything but farming. So yeah,
So my brother took over the farm and I went
in a different direction. I became a teacher and I
also write books for kids, textbooks and fiction.
Speaker 1: You must have done an awful lot of research.
Speaker 4: Yeah, did a lot of research, kind of a lot
of internet internet based research books and then traveling around
as well.
Speaker 6: But yeah, did a lot of research.
Speaker 4: The trick was to find the good story from each county.
Some counties had lots of brilliant stories, like in particular
in the West, like Cork for example.
Speaker 6: Had loads of great stories.
Speaker 4: So the Western counties had fantastic stories, and you know,
perhaps they survived longer over there, you know, because it
was less industrialized and less colonized. Shell we say, the
tradition of the shanicky, that traveling storyteller lasted longer in
the West. And I suppose rural electrification came later to
the West as well, And a lot of people say
that electricity was kind of the death knell of the
traditional storytelling. So for lots of reasons, the West was
full of these brilliant stories, juggled a little bit more
in the East and the Midlands. But yeah, it took
a lot of research because I needed to have not
only thirty two stories, but a variety of stories. Like
a lot of these stories they have similar counterparts in
each county. So for example, my Loftus Hall story from
Wexford is the traditional story of the dark stranger turning
up to the door and it turns out to be
the devil and his cloven hoofs then are spotted beneath
his trousers. Yeah it is, yeah, and it actually pops up.
Speaker 6: In every county.
Speaker 4: So nobody wants to read thirty two of those stories,
so it needed to be there. Needs to be a
variety of stories, so I wanted to include things like
the banshee, you know, different types of ghosts and monsters
as well. Like there's a monster down in a Lee
Trom called the dove Ar Coup, which also populates lots
of lakes in Ireland. But it's a monster that was
described as a cross between a dog and an outthor
but huge and in Lee Tram in len A Lake.
This monster in the sixteenth century killed supposedly killed the
girl and her gravestone can still be seen with this
little ancient inscription of a monster on it in a
nearby graveyard. So I wanted to include a variety of stories.
I wanted to include witches like Alice Kittler, the first
witch and the first convicted, which woman convicted of witchcraft?
Now she actually escaped punishment, but her or made Petronella
the Mead, was arrested in our place and she was
born at the stake, and she was the first woman
to be burned for witchcraft in Ireland. And like what
followed that was the killing of nearly ten thousand women
across the world for crimes of witchcraft. So terrific stuff,
you know. So yeah, I wanted to include lots of
different types of stories, like banshees. I have a banshee,
a famous banshee from Dunlouce Castle.
Speaker 6: You probably have heard of castle.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's up in Antrum and it's made famous recently
by the Game of Thrones. Yeah, and I have then
Marjorie McCall from Arma. She was famously lived once but
was buried twice and her ghost haunts the graveyard there
in Belfast. So yeah, I wanted to include a variety
of stories, so you had a lot of research went
into it, but we got there in the end.
Speaker 1: Probably tried to track down a lot of old books
as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did, And the library service in Ireland is
fantastic because some of the books I got were incredible.
They were really a lot of them weren't on the shelf.
The were held in archives and some of them were
really old and when I kind of googled some of them,
some of them were.
Speaker 6: Valuable and rare and cost a lot of money.
Speaker 4: Like I got a book from Westmead and it was
worth a couple of thousands, like, and they just sent
it to me in a brown.
Speaker 6: Envelope, you know.
Speaker 4: So it's an incredible service, and a lot of these
stories that are preserved by the libraries and also the Internet.
The Internet, there's a various archives on the Internet that
have made it their business, including Google Books that are
kind of scanning all these ancient texts and putting them
online for people to read, which preserves them as great
jet So yeah, so internet and library was the main
source of research.
Speaker 1: In your own case. Do you have a little beta
testers there in your pupils? Do you do you read Storto? Yeah?
Speaker 6: I absolutely do.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I tested loads of these stories and the
kids because my publishers, for one in particular wanted me
to take it out was the Dublin story. It's called
the Dollocker, and it was a story I found in
an Irish the journal, a really old one about a
kind of a phantom pig that roamed around the inner
city Dublin, the Liberties, and it had the head of
a pig in the body of a man, and people
for two years people were afraid to go go out
at night, women especially, But that story and the publisher's
thought was a little bit too kind of close to
the bone and too scary for kids. So I brought
it into school and tested on the kids, and they
absolutely loved the story managed to keep it into the book.
You know, I think we underestimate kids sometimes. The gorrier
and the kind of spookier and the better for them.
I don't think it's you know, I think we underestimate
them if they think they're going to be scared by things.
Speaker 6: That maybe we are.
Speaker 4: They just they lapped it up and it was one
of their favorite ones that they read. So yeah, I
read a lot of them to the story to the kids,
and some of the stories that were my own favorite
and weren't theirs. They had their own ones. So often,
you know, the real test.
Speaker 6: Of the story is when you read it to an audience.
Speaker 4: But yeah, so yeah, kids, kids are very upfront about it,
but they love you. There's something it's kind of rare
things stories now, Like we all have iPads and Netflix
and screens everywhere you turn, and there's something old fashioned
and kind of romantic and kind of communal about gathering
around and just listening to simple word and letting the
words create pictures in your mind. You know, you make
your own special effects. You make it as scary as
you want in your head. You know something kind of
something kind of cool about that.
Speaker 1: You know what's cool is it's involving your imagination, you know,
and that's what all kid's always had, the imaginary friend.
Theater of the mind in acts.
Speaker 4: Absolutely yes, Stephen King calls it the last form of
portable magic is a book.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: I think it's a good phrase, although I like yours
as well, the theater of the mind.
Speaker 6: I think that's good too.
Speaker 1: Let's look at two phenomenon the banshee. Have you got
a county and a banshee? And the gist of the
story ban is.
Speaker 4: Woman and she is fairy, so it means a fairy woman.
And traditionally the banshee was connected with certain families, so
not every family had.
Speaker 6: A banshee in them.
Speaker 4: But if a banshee, if you heard the cry of
a banshee, it meant somebody in your family was going
to die or somebody had died. So and there's banshee.
Speaker 6: Stories all over Ireland.
Speaker 4: Now with technology and as things moved on, a lot
of people say that those cries were the cry of
a fox. I don't know, Mark, if you've ever heard
a fox cry, have you?
Speaker 1: I am like snow White in here Kiran, right, I'm
in Butterstown in Dublin, and yet I'm only remarking on
this recently. I've squirrels coming over the little studio I
have here. I fox this out the front. So to
answer your question, yes, I do so.
Speaker 4: A lot of people believe that that was what people
thought with the banshee. But anyway, the banshee and my
story is the one from Dunlouce Castle. She was the
lord of the castle in the thirteenth century with a
man called McQuillan, and his wife died and he brought
up his daughter May alone. She didn't turn out exactly
the way he wanted her. He wanted her to be
kind of a royal lady and to act like a lady.
But she preferred to dress in servants clothes and help
around the castle. And she preferred to get down dirty
and help the servant. She wasn't into the kind of
the push to.
Speaker 6: Stop all lady mo.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So she met this guy and he was very
fond of her because she was she had a beautiful smile,
and she was very caring to the poor, and she
often gave them money, and she he was really impressed
by her and they started seeing each other and they
kind of fell in love. But of course her father
wasn't happy with this because he would look out his
window and he'd see his daughter dressed in rags working
with this other ragged fella, and he didn't want the
future for her.
Speaker 6: He had her lined up to marry one of the
local neighboring lords.
Speaker 4: So he kind of confronted her and she said, no,
I love this man and you can't stop me. And
he said, I can't stop you. And he brought her
to the highest tower in the castle and he locked
the door to keep her to teach her a lesson,
but she was stubborn like her mother, and she wouldn't
leave the room and she said, I'm going to die
in this room. Not changed my mind, and he said fine.
They both were stubborn, so he left her locked in
the room. Of course, he fed her, He employed and
to feed her, and she, as was her way, got
very friendly with the servant, and she convinced the servant
to bring her some wool and knitting needles so that
she could while away the time knitting. And every time
the father came up to ask her had she changed
her mind, she said no, she hadn't, and when he
would spy her knitting, he would get a little bit
of hope and think that she was going to knit
a bridle shawl for herself, but she said it was
her dead shaw and that he would if she didn't,
If he didn't change his mind, she would see him
dressed in it as a corpse, not as a bride.
So things were kind of get bad. She was kind
of losing a lot of weight. He was refused to
give in. She refused to give in, and he was
a proud man, and he didn't want to be seen
in those days, you know, to give in to your daughter.
So he came up with a kind of a plan.
He decided to get friendly with the servant that was
bringing food to mave, and he arranged for the servant
that she would escape, And so the servant let her out,
and the fact the dad knew all about this and
may have escaped, and she met her beloved boyfriend in
a cave underneath the castle called Mermaid's Cave. So McQuillan,
her father was looking out through the window at her,
his beloved daughter. He loved escaping down to this cave
in a boat to meet her true love. He kind
of felt happy, you know.
Speaker 6: He thought that she would come back and all would
be forgiven.
Speaker 4: But as he was watching her boat go into the cave,
a terrible storm arose. The boat came out with Mave
and her beloved inside it, and the storm grew wilder,
and the boat start bobbing up, and the McQuillan, the lord,
was getting kind of more anxious and worried. The boat
went under the water. He shrieked in terror and sent
all of his servants down to search the waves for
his poor daughter. And she never turned up. And he
spent weeks and weeks and weeks searching the showline and
never found her until one day he was on the
beach and he looked back up at his own castle,
to the tower where he had locked up Mayve, and
he saw a light in the window, and in the
window he saw Mayve dressed in her shroud that she
had been knitting, and she was crying, And of course
he ran up to the room. And when you got
up there there was nothing but the show. And that
was the beginning of the banshee. May was dead, of course,
but she became a banshee, and for years, for hundreds
of years afterwards, her cry would echo out in the
castle if somebody was going to die, And indeed sometimes
she even saved a couple of people who was a
fame story where she saved somebody from a storm by
pulling them out of the way before part of the
castle disappeared. But that was Yeah, So that's the banshee
of Dunloose Castle. And people say at nighttime you can
still hear her forlorn cry coming from the ruins of
the castle.
Speaker 1: Wow, I think that place is close enough to the
Giant's Causeway.
Speaker 6: It is, Yes, on that causeway coast there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, can we go somewhere now, finally for a poltergeist story.
Speaker 6: Yes, we have a fit.
Speaker 4: Probably the most famous Polto guist was the coonean post
Polto guys in Fromana. So that was about nineteen thirteen.
I think I'll just check now. Relatively yeah, relatively contemporary.
And the house is still there and you can go
and visit the house, and there have been two attempts
in the last twenty or thirty years to restore the
house and open it as.
Speaker 6: A tourist attraction.
Speaker 4: It's quite a lot of interest in it and a
lot of people visited on both attempts, the planning fell
apart and it never it never came to pass. Perhaps
the poltergeist is still driving people out of the house.
Speaker 1: You know, when you say a house, I think I
know this one. Is it kind of a more of
a ramshackle little there than a house.
Speaker 4: Like a little cottage yet, yeah, yes, a little cottage.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And the story goes that a Murphy family widow and
her children moved into the house and always going fine
until one night the widow had I think it was
four or five girls and an older son, and they
heard kind of noises in the bedroom, and they heard
noises in the loft, and the loft was where they
stored potato, so she sent the sun up, and of
course there was nobody up there, so they went back down.
They were kind of all awake at this stage, and
next minute noises came.
Speaker 6: Through the through the walls.
Speaker 4: And it sounded like kind of the rustling of straw
and a wind blowing, and it kind of got louder
and louder, and the poor family were up.
Speaker 6: All night and exhausted.
Speaker 4: So the next day they went down to the local
parish priest as you do one hundred years ago, and
they got the priest around, and the priest decided he
would stay in the house and see, and of course
that night he heard the same noises. And he stayed
in the house for a week, and the noises appeared
every night, and the only thing that would silence them
was when he said mass or when he sprinkled the
holy water. And there were a few occasions when the
noises manifested themselves in kind of more violent ways, where
the plates would fly off the dresser. And there's one
occasion where they went into an empty bedroom because they
were all in the living room sitting around the fire,
and a shape materialized under the sheets of the bed.
The shape was kind of like it was kind of slittering,
like an eel, and when he spoke to it, it
disappeared the world. And then when he would the priests
would ask the polter guys to answer him, you know,
so he would say, you would ask the question, and
it would say knock once if it's yes, or twice
for no. And he would ask the questions like, you know,
he would give it a kind of multiple choice questions,
Say what county am I from? Do you think it's
a cavin one knock.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And every time the poltar guys would knock incorrect correctly,
you know. So word got out in small community and
everybody start talking about this house. Some people were suspicious.
Some people thought that it was the kids playing tricks
on the priest, you know. So the neighbors in particular
and the kids the family started to be showned. Other
kids in the local school weren't talking to these kids
because they thought they were in league with the devil.
And but a lot of the neighboring the neighbors were
suspicious that the kids were playing tricks on the priests.
So they decided to do a little experiment, and a
couple of the big, strong, farming neighbors came in and
they each sat in the house and each held one
the children to make sure that they weren't making secret noises.
And as the night went on, the noise appeared, that
whistling noise, and the lights dimmed, and the fire went down,
and one of the farmers got hit in the head,
even though another farmer felt knocking under his chair, and
the men, who were big, strong, brave men, ran out
of the house determined never to come back. It kind
of it escalated and the noises got worse. The family
or the straw. A couple of other priests experts were
called in and they all there was three priests and total,
had spent weeks in the house, and they each witnessed
all sorts of manner of poltergeist activity, but they couldn't
solve it, like the poltar guyst would quiet and when
they would pray or when they'd sprinkle the holy water,
but nothing could make the poltgeist leave. And in the end,
the family left and they got on a boat and
went to America. The house has been abandoned since then.
You can go and see it. A couple of stories
I read about the three priests affards that a lot
of the three of them suffered various illnesses and nervous breakdowns.
Like the BBC did a couple of episodes from the
house and the investigators picked up paranormal activity, and one
of the investigators said it was the most haunted place
she had ever been in. So it's it's kind of
yet in the middle and over and it's kind of
a creepy place.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: To add to that, apparently the word rid of it.
When they went to Stateside, it followed them.
Speaker 6: Ah, yes, I heard that as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you hear were they followed them onto the boat,
the Portogeist and there was Diemly on the boat to America.
There was the neighbor the neighboring cabins complained about noises
in this Murphy family cabin.
Speaker 1: It's been fascinating talking to your care on this book.
Every house should have one. What's it called? Where can
people get it?
Speaker 4: Well, it's called Haunted Ireland. It's published by Gale. It's
a beautiful gift book. It's a hardback. It's got these
fantastic gothic illustrations from Dublin illustrator Mark Gale. It's called
Haunted Ireland, An Atlas of ghost Stories from every County
and it's available online and in all good bookstores.
Speaker 1: Fantastic And can we give a shout out there to
Mark Hill? Does he do that full time?
Speaker 5: He does?
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he's a photographer as well, but yeah, his
work is superb. Like even the cover I'm looking at
here is the cover has Alice Kitler and he puts
lots of these Easter eggs, you know, these hidden little clues.
And so if you look at the cover, Alice Kitler
has a necklace. It looks like an ordinary necklace, but
when you look closer, it's actually got four wedding rings
on it, each belonging to our four dead husbands that
who died under mysterious circumstances.
Speaker 1: That's intriguing. So it ain't just an illustration. There's a
little puzzles there to be worked out in. Yes, well,
I love that because again that'd engage somebody's imagination and
as I said earlier, it seems to go right across
the spectrum. Children and grown ups are going to enjoy this.
Thank you so much for talking to Scary Era care On.
Speaker 4: Thanks very much, Mark, Bye you too, Bye bye.
Speaker 1: Mark Manning. Well, one good turn deserves another. And this
morning I was pleasantly surprised to see Scary Era and
consequently Paranormal UK Radio being plugged on the on Explained
dot Ie website. These guys have been around a long time.
They're about to launch a project called Phantasm Collective, which
is Arlen's newest paranormal investigation series. They unveil the official trailer.
You can have a listen to it here that blends
supernatural encounters with science. Led by investigators Anthony Kerrigan and
modern day which Jessica Murphy. The show takes you deep
into Ireland's most taunted locations, exploring the paranormal through spiritual,
psychological and scientific lenses. I certainly hope to have Anthony
and Jessica on the show soon. Give it a listen
and follow it up and our next guest is less
than a minute away.
Speaker 7: My name is Anthony Cook and I'm Jessica Murphy. We
are members of a paranormal psychical study group called ghost Era.
Speaker 5: Established in two thousand and nine. We have troubled all
of with the Isle of Island, reaching.
Speaker 3: Out beyond the veil Delvet into the minds of numerous beings.
Speaker 5: Yet managing to maintain Russian thinking towards strange phenomena.
Speaker 7: In this series, we'll be examining the possibility of human
survival and the mystical activity associated with it. We'll visit
several historic locations, working alongside our team other paranormal clues
and experts in the field to find definitive answers to
the most thought provoking questions. This is the phantasm collect.
Speaker 1: Cus Mark, my main man how are you.
Speaker 5: I'm fine. I'm preparing myself to go walking this weekend
for three days and we're going to do the whole
Belgian coast. So yeah, I'm taking care of provisions, drinks,
these things.
Speaker 1: I'm okay, that's good. Hey you, yes, I'm fine. You
say drinks Lucas Bolls. Isn't there a drinks company called that?
There is there is any relation?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's my my ancestors that founded it. His name
is also Lucas Balls.
Speaker 1: I hope he left you something and he's will did.
Speaker 5: He only one paragraph that says like the name Balls
and the family volves should always until eternity be respected
and honored by the Royal Balls Distilleries. So every four
years we have a huge family party in Amsterdam at
the distilleries. And they sent me like presents every year
with my birthday because I'm the last one that's immediately
connected to the old Lucas Balls from fifteen seventy five.
And so yeah, it's a crazy story family. They started
off the voc the East Indian Company. First case of
austrial espionage took place them, like it's it's a cool story.
I'll tell you about it later.
Speaker 1: It's a whole interview in itself. I have to say, Lucas,
what you know, I've opened up a lovely Pandora's box. There,
there you go, it's amazing. Now what you do for
a living? Is you are am I correct in saying
you're a film director or cinematographer? Is there a difference?
Speaker 5: Well, a jewel like, So I'm a director both for
television and for cinema. So I've been working on a
couple of short movies for a couple of years now
I've addressed like, yeah, my daily business is advertising is
TV like, I'm a promo producer too, so I create
movie trailers. So storytelling in general is my my thing.
Speaker 1: And no, can I get it straight. Are you in
Holland or Belgium?
Speaker 5: No? Belgian, Belgium. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I don't want to take all your time because
I know what a busy man you are. Will come
to that a little bit later. So if we can
just get in on the paranormal end of things. When
you were a young film student, you decided to do
a kind of a project, so you take it from there.
Speaker 5: Okay, So well, as a as a film student, you
have to make a short movie or a documentary or
something audio visual connected to your interests and what you do.
So it's like like a tecis somehow. But then in
film form, I was really interested in one place that
I came across and it was supposed to be a
ghost house, a ghost house in a little Dutch town
named Sasa fun Gents. It's not so very far from
from Ghent, Okay. So we together with Lick two other
people in my class, like, we started this in endeavor
and we wanted to do something blair, which three I
think because I just came back from Australia where I
lived for some time and then started studying again and
then we had to do this. So well, this this
ghost though, this was quite interesting because it has a
really long history of like strange happenings. And it was
a house right on the border with Belgium, so between
Holland and Belgium, and it was raised around eighteen ninety
I think, or eighteen eighty five, yeah, I think it
was that. And it was like the director's house of
a glass factory in Sassfangan, so it's a very static building.
It's like we a manor. We started researching this place
and we found out that like because it was right
on the border, there used to be like an electric
fencing across that border, so across the house, and a
lot of people were fuseillated or shot by the Germans
in those days because they were smuggling. Always, like on
a border area, there's a lot of smuggling going on
or butter for alcohol, for cows, whatever. A lot of
people died, they were electrocuted, were shot. Then in the
Second World War, I think like there was a lot
of fighting in the area too, So there was a
Canadian tank that wrote on the boulevard of the house
and it was shot or bombed. I don't really know what.
Speaker 1: I think a mine went off. The little bit of
research I did, I killed four Canadian soldiers.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, four people died right on the yeah, on
the property of the house. And then we started looking
into like next to the history, we started looking into
like what happened there? Why do people call this a
ghost house. We ended up like interviewing the police, like
the local police of Saspangan. Well they said, like, yeah,
there's no real proof of it, that stuff is happening there.
But if you look at like the records of like
car accidents and stuff that happens there. There's well quite
a lot of stuff that happened in the past ten years.
Some people complained that the engines of their vehicles, whether
it is like a motorcycle or a moped or or
a car, Yeah, the engine stops. So when they're passing
by the house, the engine suddenly stops, and then yeah,
they have to react fast. There's been like quite some
deadly accidents. But it's not a special road. There's no traffic.
It's just like a little bit of a curb. They
drive throop, that's it. So the police couldn't rely explain
like all these these deadly accidents and engines of the
cars shut down and this and that. So they said like, yeah,
something must be going on something magnetic.
Speaker 8: Or I don't know, atmospheric, atmospheric, who knows And Okay,
So next step was we took a couple of stones
from the house and we went to a very normal.
Speaker 1: Fair where men and women are.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so there was one girl, her name was Caroline,
and one of my friends like Wouter, was also there.
So the three of us were making the film. And
then like yeah, we had had some extras and actors
well that we hired. Also, there was like a big
how do you call it, like an when soldiers from
the First World War, Second World War re enactment groups
like those stakes so to reenact like parts of the
history of the house. And so okay, we took some
stones of the house and we went to a para
normal fair in love in the Brahmantal and it's called
it's like a big fair where people gather. There's like
some some sketchy stuff going on, but also some quite
amazing things have come from it. Like there's there's people
there that are quite gifted and they've worked for the
intelligence services. Even some people say they worked for the
FBI to to solve some murders and all that. Anyways,
we wanted to hand out like these stones to three
different per normally gifted people that we looked up and
we thought like, okay, these people are the most plausible
and believable of the whole bunch that was there.
Speaker 1: It's a very novel idea great idea to do that.
Speaker 5: In the first place, it's it's so you can compare,
so everybody makes its own story, and that's that's actually
what happened. So we gave the stones to the first
per normally give the person.
Speaker 1: I don't know how how you call that a medium or.
Speaker 5: Maybe something like that. Indeed, and this person felt a
strong relation to the stones, and yeah, he started talking
about that he saw a blonde person, a blonde man.
He that that person ended up somehow in the house,
and he saw a plane fly over and he think
like the plane crashed down somewhere. So okay, there was
like some some pieces of a story of maybe a
blonde person that ended up in the house. He lost
out traces of that person after that, so he didn't
know what happened. So the next next per normally medium
read the stones and more of this story came. But
when he first took one of the stones in his hands,
like one of the big lights of the expo hall
where we were fell down and it felt right next
to the medium, we were.
Speaker 1: Like what the fuck absolutely excuse me, yeah, not at all.
Speaker 5: And then of course, like the medium said like yeah,
it's it's connected to the stone and it's a sign
that we should look into this, and blah blah blah,
but we proceeded. The organization came in and they kind
of placed all the stands where the people were sitting
away from the lights. So they took it serious, like
what happened? And then this person started talking somehow about
the same thing. It's an airplane with a red ball
underneath the wings, like a pond or a swamp. And
then the people from the house they found that person
somewhere somehow. Okay. Another part of the story third person
was the same.
Speaker 1: Can I just ask you a question before we get
into the third person, and that were they all in
the same room at the time you conducted these stone
tests or were they separate?
Speaker 5: They were separate.
Speaker 1: So yeah, they weren't getting a lead of each other,
is what I'm saying.
Speaker 5: Oh, not at all, not at all, because like they
didn't know of each other either, like they were participating
on the same thing.
Speaker 1: All right, my apology into the third medium.
Speaker 5: Then yeah, the third medium continued the story and what
we actually found out, like it's okay, so if you
combine the three stories, is that a British RF flyer
person with blonde hair, crashed the plane somewhere in a
swamp not so very far from the house, and the
people from the house must have seen it. They went
to the to the plane or to the swamp, and
they got the soldier out, they got the pilot out,
and they took it to the house. That's the whole
story that we got. Right, of course, there's no proof.
There was nothing, no record about like a plane crashing down.
We looked into the archives of Sasfangen, so okay, we
were left with just somehow useless information. But it was
really interesting. Yeah, it all tal It and and that
that really got our interest. So we called and I
think he died, but he was like the ghost hunter
dot NL, so he was the most prestigious ghost hunter
that Holland had. Yeah, took some cases in Hungry I
think where he found like in a haunted house, Like
he found like a priest locked into behind the wall,
like a sixteenth century priest that was locked up there.
So he found that skeleton. And after they found that skeleton,
like the haunting stopped. So it triggered us to call him.
So he took him to the house and well he
knew of the house, like he'd been there several times
before that. Yeah, we were walking around and he said like, yeah,
you can take pictures. So in every living space of
the house, it was a ruined at that time.
Speaker 1: I was just going to ask, Yeah, what condition was
it in. Was it kind of emptied out at that
stage of furniture or was it a shell.
Speaker 5: Or I think it was just a shell. So it
didn't have any floors anymore, didn't have a ceiling, so
the interior, yeah, it was just walls.
Speaker 1: But the facade was holding up.
Speaker 5: So that's it. Yeah, so it was tricky to walk
around there. But we used like we walked through there.
We what we said to meet around the eleven o'clock
in the evening and then go around the house.
Speaker 1: And he was gonna, sorry, what time of year was
this is winter?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it should be wintertime, February.
Speaker 1: March, extra tills.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1: So there you are eleven o'clock at winter's night, Yeah,
and you're in the house.
Speaker 5: What happened First, we walked around the house because there
was no windows and no doors anymore. You could see
through the house and every now and then he was
taking pictures this yost and well, one of the things
he showed us at that time, like one of the
first pictures he took, it showed like an or like
that was in the living room or where the living
room had been but a little ball. It did have
a little tail behind it, which kind of showed the direction.
So this little tale kind of showed that the ball
was moving left. So we continued and we went to
the left and there was a hallway. He took some
pictures there and you could kind of see the ball there,
but the tail shifted like.
Speaker 1: This was on video.
Speaker 5: No, it was on a.
Speaker 1: Prostatic yeah, okay, so like a normal camera.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there you go. Okay, well he said it was
like a special kind of.
Speaker 1: Sure infrared or something. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it looked like a normal camera.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 5: And so it took like four or five of these
pictures with this ORB thing flying around. I'd never heard
about it, like an orb he said, Like it's one
of the main manifestations of an entity over or energy
source that's still present somewhere. Again, we were intrigued, but
it was not scary about it. It was just like, okay,
you saw it on the pictures. First we thought like
maybe it's some dust, or maybe it's like a like
some humidity or I don't know what. You always try
to look for logic in these things. It's okay, that happens.
Then we talked to the neighbors of the house. We
did some interviews with them, and well, they had some
weird experiences as is, as in like okay, energy drops,
like the phone would suddenly not work anymore, and sometimes
there would be lights around the house that they couldn't explain. Yes,
but a lot of it I think they blamed on people.
Speaker 1: That were doing like ghost hunting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, how do you say that, like with the wiki
board or to search for.
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, so they'd be yeah, like a black mass
or something like that where it's it's it gets kind
of dark, shall we say, in terms of what they're
trying to do.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1: And yeah with devil worshippers or.
Speaker 5: Probably those were there too, because we saw like a
big satan kind.
Speaker 1: The pentagram, yeah side, so that was interesting.
Speaker 5: But for the rest okay, so we finished the movie.
Nothing really happened except like, yeah, you got a weird
feeling sometimes like the chills, but it was it was wintertime,
so yeah, we could explain that. And now, years and
years later, I think it was fifteen years or seventeen
years later, I was looking through the newspaper and I
saw a news bulletin of that he found something in
sas Fagan in the village where the house was. It's
the house in the meantime has been completely destroyed. I'd
done an interview with the owner at the time and
he was like a big I don't know, businessman, like
a factory older and he wanted to sell the land
or so. I don't know what happened. Anyways, the house
doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1: Ah, but that would be on half of people would
have been really annoyed about that, and I say probably
half were quite happy.
Speaker 5: I think so that the I think the neighbors were
quite happy that a lot of people they were angry
because they lost part of the history and the intrigue
they couldn't.
Speaker 1: Real notoriety and a bit of maybe a bit of
economy as well.
Speaker 5: Think so. And I think touristically it's kind of interesting
to have a ghost house, like a known ghost house.
I think. I know there's a lot of them in
England and it's a big tourist attraction there. So But anyway,
it's like I saw this this news bulletin and it
said they found something in sas fan Gens. They found
an R. E. F plane not so very far from
the house. In a well, so it had sunken down.
And if they linked the plane like yeah, two who
flew it at the time that it lifted off? It
was a blonde soldier. I don't I don't remember the name. Yes,
I don't believe it said so in.
Speaker 1: The in the new log. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And after seventeen years I recalled everything. You know,
it's like, whoa, this whole story kind of makes sense now.
It's a circle that has found its conclusion and somehow
I was so happy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you you know, it was a story in
itself that you've gone there fifteen years prior and yeah
and uncovered all this. You know, that to me is
as much a story as the plane itself being discovered.
Speaker 5: I think so. But you never know what's true or
what's not in the in the same case, like it's
just an invention that people that are sensitive to certain
things pick up and they tell you this and you
believe it, but you never know. But this thing is
kind of like, Okay, now we know that there's something
really feasible about their story and their powers too. I
guess like.
Speaker 1: It was a vindication.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's it, that's it. Yeah, So that's kind of
my story about that house in sais fang game.
Speaker 1: And you've never had anything happened since set up all.
Speaker 5: Or that made you think, I have a lot of things.
Speaker 1: Are you sensitive to those things? Are you interested in them? Orders?
It just by the by it happens, and it's one
of those things that make you go ooh really interested.
Speaker 5: First of all, I'm skeptical, but that's healthy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 5: You have to.
Speaker 1: You have to.
Speaker 5: But the place where I grew up, like we we
have a lot of Celtic roots, like not Celtic as
in Ireland, but the Celts as in a tribe tribes
that lived here. The goals they call them to.
Speaker 1: The Oh yes, the goals, famous dying goal. It's a statue.
Speaker 5: It's a beautiful stay, isn't it. It is with the
wire around the necker.
Speaker 1: Oh well yeah yeah. You see around there as well,
you get what's called bug bodies. Have you ever heard
of that?
Speaker 5: That's more that's in Holland, the bug bodies, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Dog bodies. We have them here in Ireland as well.
Speaker 5: You do, yeah, yeah, It's it's interesting the bug by
because they're actually sacrifices.
Speaker 1: They are and in one case, you know, I definitely know.
I think it might be up in Denmark, but the ligature,
you can see it. It's there.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there you go. I've seen a couple of them,
like here in Ghent, Like we had an exhibition in
the gravel Stain and it's the Castle of the Jukes.
It's like right in the middle of Ghent, a thirteenth
century castle, and they had a couple of bug bodies there.
It's beautiful, like it's well, they're tiny. It kind of
feels like the people have shrunk a little bit, like yes,
they're completely black, but you see the whole texture of
their skin, their clothes, like everything's there.
Speaker 1: I was amazed as well as the condition of the hands.
They're almost some of them were. Might I might have
been of a higher class or something. They're manicuring nearly
you know. Oh really you can see the hands are
just so beautiful. Have you encountered anything even auditory sounds.
I was talking to a guy in the States a
few years ago, and he hitched up camp in the
desert one night, and he was on his own and
the Arizona Desert, I think, and he just said, look,
I've never had anything paranormal happen in my life. Both
this occasion and that was an auditory thing. He said,
I could hear this noise. It was like I was
surrounded by birds flapping or fish in a shoal. He said.
It was a noise of nature, but it engulfed the tent.
He said. I went outside at two am in the morning,
he said, really afraid, and I could hear it, but
I couldn't see anything apart from the desert stars. I interrupted,
you there, sorry, old son, is It's an interesting story.
Speaker 5: It's something similar When I lived in Australia, like what
I std there for I don't know, like a year
or so, and I met some Japanese people. Of Australia's
full of Japanese people, and we hung out like one
evening in their home state parents' house. While we were
we were looking around through the through the house and
we found all these pictures of like nineteenth century pig
sures that think of people that were posing. But then
we looked better at the pictures and it was actually
like one person that was alive and the other person
was dead, but they made it look as if the
dead person was still alive. They did that in those days.
Speaker 1: Oh, there was a trend I think for that kind
of thing at Victorian times, photographing the dead, you know.
Speaker 5: And so yeah, because it costs a lot of money,
like the taking a picture, and most people didn't have
like a picture of their loved one before they died,
so they yeah, they made them look as if they
were alive and took a picture of post morton, which
is kind of interesting. Well, okay, so we found these
pictures and we were kind of well, this is weird,
like this person really had thousands of these pictures. So
it continued, like we had some wine and we had
some food. I think we made burgers that evening, and
then suddenly, like you know, like in Australia, like it
wasn't Cairns and a lot of houses they have like
a ground level and then there's like the living level
is on top of that, like so people live on
the first floor and below that it's kind of like
a garage. They do have some sofas and all that,
and some fridges and this and that, but it's more
just a general area where people enter the house. So
we were sitting on the first floor and suddenly we
heard this piano music coming from downstairs. And we were like, well,
this is weird because there was nobody there, and well,
for as much as my Japanese friends knew, there was
no piano there, so I think we were five people
and okay, the Japanese they were immediately a bit afraid,
but they have a different culture than us, so everything
with them is kind of related or linked with their ancestors.
These weird things happen like it can be something very
scary for them, or it can be something very positive,
but they look at it as a kind of vision
or so, I don't know. They tried to explain, but
it wasn't completely clear. So we got up and we
started walking downstairs. And when we entered this space on
the ground floor, like like what you said, just now,
like the piano music was all around us. It didn't
come from one direction. It just embolved us, like in beautiful,
soft kind of music. But we couldn't see where it
was coming from. So I was looking for like a
radio or like like music boxes on the ceiling. Maybe
there was like four boxes, I thought, like where the
sound would come from, but there was no music boxes.
So that was a really weird experience. From the moment
we touched the floor like we all five of us,
like the music stopped and it didn't return anymore. But
it was like we were completely engulved with this beautiful
piano melody.
Speaker 1: Tell me, could you tell what type of music it was?
Like European or would it have been Japanese or is
it just tranquil?
Speaker 5: It was very tranquil European music. It's a bit in
the style of moonlight.
Speaker 1: Lovely, beautiful. Can I just tell you something very personal?
Within the last three days, my sister's husband died. Yeah,
he was seventy five and he'd been ill, but he
was very British. And she was sharing with me her
thoughts yesterday because she was obviously still and it was
the first time I'd phoned her since it had happened.
And she said, David was a lovely man, but very stiff,
Upper British and he didn't come on with the big
bunches of flowers or anything like that. And she said,
and the other thing was moonlight sonata would bring him
to tears.
Speaker 5: There you go, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Isn't that weird?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 1: So can I ask one more question then, because I
don't want to take up all your time because you
are busy with what would Ann win? The movie is
in production and you're in the funding stage, etc. But
when I get feelings about people, right, I've always liked
you the few conversations we've had, but I think you're
a very kind person. How do you feel like about animals?
And would you pick up on anything? I won't even
say paranormal, but maybe spiritual because, like I'll be honest
with you, I have a cat. He's out. He must
be about twenty feet from where I am, and that
thing I call him, he's more like a dog at times,
but he's human. He knows me I pick up on stuff.
Does Lucas have any animals in his life?
Speaker 5: Well, we've always had cats. Yeah, so we have two
cats right now. It's like two little boys. I've always
had the ability to make a very fast connection with animals.
I think like with dogs a little less.
Speaker 1: It's usually the opposite, isn't it? People like with cats?
You know you often I always feel like, you know,
if I mentioned do you like cats to people, I'm
ready to kind of come to the cat's defense because
so many people kind of go yikes, no, And it's
usually female funny enough, And I used to think, is
it your femininity is threatened in some way. Now that
I don't mean that sound like sexist, but it was
the vehemence with which females don't like cats, whereas guys
kind of go, oh, I'm not a cat person. I'm
more of a dog person, whereas sometimes a woman, in
my experience anyway, will almost recoil. Yeah, about cats, there's a.
Speaker 5: Lot of understanding with cats. I think, like, well, or
that's kind of what people put on cats like it's
like they feel like a cat understands them when they're
down very much. Yeah, it's a solid like they someone
that I know. For example, she's doing like a horse
therapy at the moment.
Speaker 1: Oh, I've heard of that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And well, I was filming a couple of years
back in a farm and they use the horses to
find like cancer. So it happened a couple of times
because they had a chiropractor doing practices with the horses.
But then they would introduce people in the stable and
the horse would also be present while the chiropractor was
doing his thing. A couple of times, like the horse
would go to a certain area on the body and
it would keep on going to that same location. And
then after that that happened, like the person thought that
was really weird. Yeah, I think a month later, two
months later, they found out that there was cancer. I
think that was pancry as cancer. So and the person
returned back to the to the to the farm and said, like, yeah,
it's really weird because the horse was always pointing at
that direction. I always came there, and maybe there's something
more to it. And then they did some research and
it seems like horses have that ability to find like
those kinds of things too, Like, well, there's nothing.
Speaker 1: Physically, it's something you really tend to associate more so
with a dog or a pig with truffles, but the
horse with a horse. To me, it's the eyes have
it when you look in those beautiful eyes. But that's
an amazing story. Tell me about the movie that's in production,
because we've a lot of us listeners to this. Besides it,
the podcast is called Scary Era Era being the Gaelic
word for Ireland. So just repeat after me. By the way,
I have to do this, Lucas, just say, Bagora, there
you go. So yeah, I now Knight you officially an
honorary Irish person. So that I can defend the material. No,
it's it's generally Gaelic and Irish related, but we never
let it get in the way of a good story.
On Win spell that for me.
Speaker 5: On Win is nw y n and it seems.
Speaker 1: To me from the bit I've a voiceover I was
involved in, which did bring me to tears. I have
to say, the kind of village scene or the guy
coming home, just tell us, tell us about it, what
stage it's at, and she'll call us a day.
Speaker 5: Yes, and when is what I would name like a
historic sci fi film. I've completely fonded it myself. Yeah,
in Belgium, there's like a wave of that they're taking away,
like cultural subscissions these.
Speaker 1: Days, so.
Speaker 5: There is nowadays they're back. But when I launched my production, like,
there was some issues and there was sixty percent less
subsisions in the two years that I launched, so I
was really unhappy and unlucky.
Speaker 1: Totally understand that.
Speaker 5: But anyways, like I did it. Anyways, I was in
a burnout and I wanted to get out, so I yeah,
the movie was a whole introspection really into myself and
my my demons and my hope of becoming my better
self again because I was really down and out back then. Anyways,
I started making the movie. It's a story about first
of all, a chapter where you have a Celtic farmer
that arrives well at his farm and his wife and
kid have been killed by the Romans. Afterwards, like he
doesn't know what to do with his sadness, like so
tries everything to deal with the sadness, like he yeah,
you have to see the movie. It's in general, the
whole movie is about like despair, sadness, how people deal
with it over a period of six thousand years, starting
with the Celtic farmer one hundred BC, and we go
like four thousand years in the future. There is a
British soldier Charlie is his name, Like he's lost his
regiment and ends up in the Belgium trenches about minutes
before like the Germans start their first use of chlorine
gas on the Western Front in Belgium. And then there
is around like he's the ruler of and Win. I
don't know if you know. The Celts, they believed in
like a parallel world that existed next two hours where
people could be what they weren't in real life.
Speaker 1: Oh what a lovely concept. I wasn't aware of.
Speaker 5: That they could could wear a mask to be for example,
you were a simple farmer, but you could wear the
mask of a warrior, and then in that world you
would be a warrior. There's many legends about it, like
the ruler of and when his name is around and
I've included him in the movie as the person that
can open up a gateway to the afterlife somehow. That's
because a lot of what we've how we've created heaven,
it's based on a lot of historical stories and images
that people have created over the years, and so the
Viking Valhalla for example. When heaven everything's connected, so there's
images of all those religions that kind of overlapped. So, yeah,
this person is always present, this around is here at
the beginning of times. He is in the First World War?
Is it the celt Like he's always present and he
just watches and he kind of gives like tools to
the people to have a look into this and when
into this other world and how life could be different.
But it's also an illusion, that's all. He tries to
get these people into believing something that it's not so
positive as it seems. As don't be gullible, like death
and evil is everywhere, that kind of idea. Well, we're
eight years in production now the shooting has been it's finished.
We shot for three years, I think because I didn't
have any money, Like it took quite a long time
because I was working two three shifts per day to
fund like one weekend of shooting every three months. I
think it was. We had about forty nine shooting days
in France and Germany, Belgium, Holland, Iceland, so that visually
it's it's fantastic, like, yeah, it's just alone Iceland is It's.
Speaker 1: Like I was just going to say, that would have
been the Jewel and the Crown, really fantastic Iceland.
Speaker 5: I wanted to to have like a post apocalyptic world
and that's what you found there. And then now we're
at the end of the post production phase. But we
still have some costs. There's grading, some special effects that
need to be done, like some of the sound design
still needs to be finished. So I started off a
crowdfunding campaign on and launched like on Instagram, on Facebook, on.
Speaker 1: Under Unwin is it or there you go go fund
me or what is the kickstarter?
Speaker 5: Yeah, dot com it's kind of specialized in the film.
Speaker 1: How's that spelled?
Speaker 5: U L E L E dot com? Okay, if you
type in and win A N N W Y and
then you'll end up there. You can also find a
link on on on Instagram and and Facebook underscore.
Speaker 1: The movie well, Lucas, it's actually an idea that has
been embolded somewhat as well and accepted that trauma dating
back eons can be kept. I think I'm very layman here,
but genetically it the trauma can be imbued. The theory
is anyway and carry on through generations as recent as
the Holocaust. Relatives of Holocaust victims have apparently this thing
in them, this trauma. I can't explain how it manifests,
but it's accepted now that you know, and I'm sure
the same goes on with slavery. And what you don't
hear about often at all is the Irish famine, which
in itself was a Holocaust. I mean it was kind
of by design. People tell you it's Josh to do
with potatoes, and listen, there was plenty effiicient the sea
in Ireland and lots of vegetables besides potatoes, so there
was a lot went on there that people never discuss
so and the trauma of it, I know, just you know,
even if it's just word of mouth and nothing to
do with DNA, it goes on and on and remains.
I suppose it's history, but in present form.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, just plain misery, really plain misery.
Speaker 1: But anyway, you help bring us out of that with
all the kind of colors and everything, because I've seen
the rushets and it's amazing. So people will know now
if they have deep pockets where to go.
Speaker 5: There you go, Lucas.
Speaker 1: It's been lovely talking to you. Indeed, I could talk
to you more, but I do respect your time and
I know how busy you are. It's a great story,
as I said, the Lucas Bold story to begin with. Yeah,
well you know, I said, wow, this guy has the
same name as I'm sure there's a few ghosts in
that family as well.
Speaker 5: Eh, well know we still have to have to find them.
Speaker 1: Okay, cheers Lucas. Lovely talking to you. Okay, Well that's it,
or as we say in Gaelic, shin a. My thanks
to Paranormal UK Radio for hosting Scary Era and indeed
my two guests today weren't they fantastic? Kiran Fanning, author
and filmmaker Lucas Boltz. We broadcast and slingshot this show
to whatever corner of the world you are in. From
the island of Ireland, we've got tombstones older than some
countries' histories. We're a passionate lot. Or in the words
of the late great poet William Butler, yeats advi have
we come great hatred, little room aimed us at the start.
I carry from my mother's womb a fanatic heart. So
until next time, keep a little mark in your heart.
Take care because I care. Goodbye, slon lat