WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:04.000 Hudson River Radio dot Com. We could be worse. 2 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:05.599 This is Kathleen Martin. 3 00:00:05.719 --> 00:00:20.320 You're listening to UFO Headquarters, Beautiful Headquarters. Thank you Kathleen 4 00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:23.719 Martin for that bless him introduction. Every time I hear it, 5 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:27.359 I love it. You Welcome to UFO Headquarters. I'm Michael 6 00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:31.079 Warden with of course Linda Zimmerman. Linda. Good evening or good. 7 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:32.640 Afternoon, whatever it is. 8 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:36.880 I don't know. I just finished a major multi year 9 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:39.479 book project, so I'm a little fried. So I'm glad 10 00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:41.600 you're taking the lead tonight. 11 00:00:42.359 --> 00:00:45.880 I think you should at least shamelessly promote what it's about. 12 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:50.159 I have been tracking a Civil War soldier for over 13 00:00:50.359 --> 00:00:54.640 thirty years. Finally, in the last couple of years found 14 00:00:54.759 --> 00:01:01.039 enough letters, diaries, information to write a book, which I 15 00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:09.400 did obsessively, compulsively, hardly sleeping or eating. But it's finally done. 16 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:12.599 It should be up on Amazon in a couple of days. 17 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:15.439 It's on Barnes and Noble. Now it's called a Civil 18 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:21.959 War Soldier and Me because it's not only his whole history, 19 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:30.159 but my dogged pursuit from Maine to North Carolina to 20 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:32.319 follow him. 21 00:01:31.159 --> 00:01:35.280 So I don't just do UFOs. 22 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:38.359 And I know I've been privy to some of the 23 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:41.640 project that she's worked on, and go get the book. 24 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:46.159 Not a Civil War fan, the story itself is just fascinating. 25 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:49.000 Yeah, there's been a lot of calls to Mike, Mike, 26 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:51.120 what do you think of that? Can you find something 27 00:01:51.159 --> 00:01:54.400 on this? So you were very helpful. Thank you. 28 00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:55.920 You don't have to be a Civil War buff for 29 00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:59.079 anything to know. I'm telling you, I haven't read the 30 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:01.519 whole book yet, and I know it's going to be awesome. 31 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:02.599 I can't wait to read it. 32 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:03.760 Thank you. 33 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:06.840 So before we start into tonight's episode, I did want 34 00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:08.439 to read a letter that was sent to me by 35 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:12.360 a former law enforcement officer, so I do know the source. 36 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:17.800 It's a credible source and it's Hey, Mike, I thought 37 00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:20.400 of telling you about this particular sighting of an object 38 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:23.919 I witnessed years ago, but I neglected too because I 39 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:26.120 felt like it was not conclusive enough and I did 40 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:29.360 not wish to waste your time. I've listened to UFO 41 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:31.680 headquarters for some time and really appreciate how you and 42 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:34.840 Linda keep up on the collection and research of local 43 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:38.680 unexplained phenomena. I was recently catching up on some of 44 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:41.400 your past episodes and listened to the show in which 45 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:44.280 you spoke about the port drivers police officers who had 46 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:48.039 a number of sightings in the nineteen sixties. It was 47 00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:50.400 then that I decided it was time to tell you 48 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:53.159 my simple story and hopes that maybe it will bring 49 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:57.199 another witness forward. The events took place in Warwick, New York, 50 00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:00.599 at the drive in Movie Theater, which is still in 51 00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:01.680 operation today. 52 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:05.000 Yes, it is great driving. 53 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:07.319 Probably one of the last that you can probably find 54 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:11.879 at this point. One summer night, as a toddler, I 55 00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:14.360 attended the movies with my mother, my aunt, and my 56 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:17.520 older sister. Before the movie started, I remember my mom 57 00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:19.800 and aunt, who were sitting in the front seat of 58 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:23.360 the car, suddenly focusing on something in the distant sky. 59 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:29.360 They conversed in some substance about what the mysterious object 60 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:33.400 was that they were seeing. I wormed my way between 61 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:35.680 them and they tried to point the object out to 62 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:38.879 me and my sister. Being too young and inexperienced to 63 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:41.879 have reference between what should or should not be in 64 00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:46.560 the sky, I only recall looking at clouds. At some point, 65 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:49.120 the object was gone, and my mom referred to the 66 00:03:49.240 --> 00:03:53.599 object as a UFO there after. Years later, as a 67 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:56.919 teenager in the early nineties, at the same drive in theater, 68 00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:00.719 I was at the very end of the summer season. 69 00:04:00.919 --> 00:04:02.759 It was with a handful of friends to see the 70 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:10.479 movie Terminator two. I'll Be Back. We sat outside of 71 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:13.280 the car on the cool, clear night air, crisp enough 72 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:15.719 that we had to wear jackets and clear in a 73 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:18.439 way that let you know summer was over because all 74 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:22.120 the stars were brightly visible. The moon was bright and 75 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:25.920 on the full side, hanging low on the horizon. During 76 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:27.720 the movie, as I often do, I took a moment 77 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:29.959 to look up and take in the view of the sky. 78 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:34.800 Just then an object at low altitude flew by directly 79 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:41.920 overhead at an extremely high speed. The object was roughly 80 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:45.560 triangular in shape and dark in color. I know it 81 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:48.600 was material in nature because the only reason I observed 82 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:51.639 it was due to the moonlight shining from the low 83 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:56.079 angle of the moon on the horizon, illuminating it as 84 00:04:56.120 --> 00:05:00.040 it traversed overhead. Mind you, as it moved, so so 85 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:02.879 did the moonlight on the surface area of the object, 86 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:07.800 which gave a very good indication of shape. More of 87 00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:13.519 an acute isosceles or arrowhead with a sharp front and 88 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:16.439 an equilateral or what we might now know as the 89 00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:21.800 rough shape of a stealth fighter. The approximate size of 90 00:05:21.839 --> 00:05:24.839 the object was a little larger than a Cessna type airplane, 91 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:27.959 and its altitude was also equivalent to where you would 92 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:31.560 think for that sort of small aircraft. This is where 93 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:35.439 the similarities ended. There were absolutely no lights illuminating it 94 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:38.879 other than the moonlight. The material seemed to be dark, 95 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:42.040 but glossy enough to allow the moonlight to reflect very well. 96 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:46.160 And then there was the astonishing speed. The only reference 97 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:49.360 I have for the speed would be to equate it 98 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:53.720 to a shooting star. From my viewpoint in that open setting, 99 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:58.160 with a field of view nearly horizontal horizon. The horizon 100 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:02.040 from when I first to when it disappeared out of 101 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:06.439 my view it must have traversed two thirds of the 102 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:11.959 sky almost instantaneously, because I was already looking up. Once 103 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:13.759 I caught the movement of the object in the corner 104 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:17.079 of my left eye, I instinctly focused on it and 105 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:19.959 tracked it until it had disappeared from sight to my 106 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:23.480 extreme right. Also instinctively, due to the speed and low 107 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:27.160 altitude of the object, I flinched hard and sort of 108 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:29.959 laid back toward the ground, waiting for a sonic boom 109 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:33.519 or at least a loud roar of an engine. There 110 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:36.920 was absolutely no sound whatsoever, nothing, not even a wush 111 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:40.879 of wind. Almost immediately my friends asked what I was doing, 112 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:43.399 as I was also stating what the hell was that. 113 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:47.839 It quickly became apparent that I was the only person 114 00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:51.399 looking up and not watching the movie. I literally asked 115 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:55.240 the strangers around us, around us if anyone was just 116 00:06:55.399 --> 00:06:58.920 looking up and if they had seen anything. All answered 117 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:02.480 to the negative. And the years since, I entered a 118 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:10.000 career where clear, accurate and precise reporting was vital. Became 119 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:16.600 a police officer and investigator, a special weapons and tactics 120 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:21.199 operator team leader, completed the career as a police chief. 121 00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:23.639 So this is someone who has clearly risen through the 122 00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:28.560 ranks and knows what they're talking about. I have served 123 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:31.800 as an expert and an expert witness on many occasions, 124 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:34.439 and to my knowledge, no one has ever accused me 125 00:07:34.519 --> 00:07:42.040 of being prone to fantasy, delusion or naivety. I was, 126 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:44.839 by no means an expert on aircraft, but anyone that 127 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:47.920 lives in southern Orange County, New York is very used 128 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:51.480 to seeing and hearing all kinds of aircraft at various altitudes. 129 00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:56.199 The flight patterns from major area airports and military bases 130 00:07:56.800 --> 00:08:00.800 all intersect over this region. I had never foreseen anything 131 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:03.240 like this object before that day, nor have I since 132 00:08:04.040 --> 00:08:06.040 I'll be listening to your future episodes and if you 133 00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:08.879 read my story, I truly hope that if anyone else 134 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:11.879 has seen this object that night, that they write to 135 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:14.720 you with the details of their event. So I want 136 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:18.040 to thank him personally for reaching out and sending that 137 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:21.839 to me, but also for trusting us to present his 138 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.839 story anonymously, but you know, hopefully to get that story 139 00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:29.279 out there and maybe others have have heard of it. 140 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:30.319 What are your thoughts? 141 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:36.600 Fantastic, that's a wonderful account. And as soon as you 142 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:42.200 mentioned Warwick Drive in I've spoken to numerous witnesses who 143 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:49.000 have seen triangular craft over the Warwick Drive in. One 144 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:53.399 that comes to mind they said it was there's a 145 00:08:53.559 --> 00:08:57.120 price chopper. In recent years has been I think it's 146 00:08:57.159 --> 00:09:00.519 a price chopper. A supermarket has been built to cross 147 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:03.480 the street. And someone said the movie wasn't so good, 148 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:07.000 I think, and they're you know, kind of wandering their 149 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:12.840 their vision and they saw a triangle over the supermarket 150 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:17.000 across the street, and other people have seen and it's 151 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:21.600 always as if I can recall correctly, it's always been 152 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:25.679 triangular craft that has been seen. I would have to 153 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:29.919 check my book with the dates and the stories, but 154 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:36.000 I love it. Another triangular UFO sighting what's going on 155 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:38.320 over the Warwick drive in? 156 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:42.919 It sounds like extraterrestrials trying to get a free movie. 157 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:47.440 That's the admission feeb Yeah. 158 00:09:47.919 --> 00:09:48.120 Yeah. 159 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:53.279 Drive ins have been great locations over the decades because 160 00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:57.440 people are outside and if you're sitting outside your car 161 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:01.440 or in you know, p both set up chairs, or 162 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:05.039 if you have a convertible, you're there for hours and 163 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:09.440 hours and the movie isn't so good. Uh you know, 164 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:15.240 your your vision is wandering. So I love it, love it, 165 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:19.080 great account. Thank thank you, whoever you are who sent that. 166 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:21.840 I remember as a kid going and we would lay 167 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:23.120 on like the hood of the front of the car, 168 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:26.120 my brother and eye, and half the time you're staring 169 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:28.360 up at the sky because you're you know, you're a 170 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:33.159 kid in your Mind's a million places, but definitely an 171 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:36.960 interesting story. So if anybody's had similar experiences, please feel 172 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:39.720 free to reach out to us. And before we get 173 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:44.559 into tonight's really interesting incident, we're going to take our 174 00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:55.080 first break. Hudson River Radio dot Com. Hudson River Radio 175 00:10:55.240 --> 00:11:03.679 dot Com. Hey, welcome back. We now are going to 176 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:09.360 go from Warwick, New York, to the coal country of Pennsylvania, 177 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:15.600 specifically to the town of Carbondale. I'm sort of in 178 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:19.960 between Honesdale and Scranton, if that helps people with a 179 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:25.320 little perspective. And it's again a quiet little town where 180 00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:30.039 some teenagers saw something fall into the lake. And we'll 181 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:32.279 get into a little but I want to just mention 182 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:37.279 what Carbondale itself, the significance of this little town. Founded 183 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:39.600 in the eighteen twenties, it was one of the first 184 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:43.639 sites of anthracite coal mining in the United States. It 185 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:46.080 was a vital rail hub for the Delaware and Hudson 186 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:52.080 Canal Company. So, you know, anthracite coal from Scranton Carbondale 187 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:55.720 would be loaded onto these you know, gravity railroads and 188 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:59.120 brought to Honesdale and then on the canal all the 189 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:02.679 way down through Port Jervis, through the Hudson Valley all 190 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:05.240 the way up to Kingston, where it would get onto 191 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:07.159 boats and go down to the Hudson, New York City. 192 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:12.480 So I wonder how many some of those Delaware and 193 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:15.200 Hudson Canal operators, what kind of things they might have 194 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:23.240 seen over those years. So unfortunately they're long gone. But 195 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:26.159 for decades it was really coal. It was a coal industry. 196 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:30.080 And in the twentieth century, when coal began to decline, 197 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:33.559 you know, so did Carbondale and it fell on hard times. 198 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:36.840 Like many towns. In the nineteen seventies, it was a 199 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:39.200 quiet town and it really was a shadow of what 200 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.960 it once was. And that all changed in November of 201 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:47.639 nineteen seventy four, on a cold November night, a glowing 202 00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:54.080 object fell from the sky into Carbondale and sparked a 203 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:57.120 mystery which some people think even today has been a 204 00:12:57.320 --> 00:13:03.200 governmental cover up. So it's November ninth, nineteen seventy four. 205 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.679 It's a clear night, so the stars are visible, it's crisp, 206 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:12.879 and there's three teenage boys hanging out, John Lloyd, William Lloyd, 207 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:16.279 and Robert Gillette. And they're hanging out near a place 208 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.200 called Russell Park that has a pond in it, and 209 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:23.879 they see something flashing across the sky which catches their attention, 210 00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:28.480 and a bright glowing object with a comet like tail, 211 00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:34.320 streaks overhead and crashes into the small pond in this park. 212 00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:41.679 The boys describe it, however, as slowing down and almost 213 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:46.639 seeming to maybe hover right before it crashed into the water, 214 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:50.639 So it wasn't like just a complete freefall where it 215 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:53.799 landed directly. It was almost like it slowed down and 216 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:58.200 then it stopped and hit the water. So, of course 217 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:02.159 the boys they call the police, and a couple of 218 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:05.399 interesting quotes here. One of them was the police say 219 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:08.679 three boys reported seeing a glowing object land in the reservoir. 220 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:14.200 Officers found bubbles rising from the surface and cordoned off 221 00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:20.399 the area. Soon after that, the pond started to glow. 222 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:22.879 Never a good sign. 223 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:27.960 No bubbling and glowing not something you want to see 224 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:29.519 in your local reservoir. 225 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:35.039 Now, being a small you know, I mean, Carbondale's relatively 226 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:38.960 small community, people start to gather. Rumors start to fly, 227 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:41.240 and people want to know what just came out of 228 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:46.399 the sky into Russell Pond. So the police when they 229 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.960 arrive again, they locate these bubbles rising up and there's 230 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:54.559 a strange light coming from the pond. By the morning, 231 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:58.799 hundreds of people are gathered there's reporters swarming it. Amateur 232 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:03.240 photographers are taking photographs. There's even a radio station that 233 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:06.600 sends up a helicopter that tries to get a scoop. 234 00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:13.039 Now we're talking nineteen seventy four. The Scranton Times Tribune 235 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:16.320 wrote that spectators lined the perimeter of Russell Park as 236 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:21.600 officials debated how to retrieve the object. The light, witnesses say, 237 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:27.200 continued to glow into the night. People are excited, nervous. 238 00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:33.000 Some talk of alien visitors, others of military experiments. Theories 239 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:39.000 are flying as fast as the object itself. So the object, 240 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:40.960 whatever it is, it's going to be need to be retrieved. 241 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:43.399 But are the residents of Carbondale really ready for what 242 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:47.240 they're going to find? Well, two days later they bring 243 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:52.080 in divers, and these divers go into the water and 244 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:55.279 they do recover something. They come up to the surface 245 00:15:55.399 --> 00:16:00.279 with an object. It is not a spacecraft, It is 246 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:03.399 not a meteorite. Linda, did you want to take a 247 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:05.039 guess at what they came up with. 248 00:16:05.559 --> 00:16:08.600 I believe it was a type of flashlight. 249 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:15.080 Close it was a rusty battery powered railroad lantern. 250 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:22.399 I don't know that rusty lanterns underwater are still capable 251 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:23.960 of working well. 252 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:28.000 Authority said it must have been a prank and thrown 253 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:30.120 into the water, perhaps as a prank or a hoax. 254 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:33.879 Mm hm. And how did that account for the bubbling 255 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:36.440 and the objects shooting through the sky. 256 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:41.559 Well, we're going to talk about that soon. Well, as 257 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:44.480 you can imagine, Much like a lot of stories we 258 00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:50.759 talk about, not everybody bought that official explanation. Many locals 259 00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:54.600 said the lantern didn't match the light they saw. They 260 00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:58.399 also said the lantern couldn't have glowed for that long underwater, 261 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:02.559 Like you said, how long was the battery powered lantern 262 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:06.880 built from the nineteen seventies, not knowing when it was manufactured, 263 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:09.920 assuming it even worked, how long is that really gonna 264 00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:11.039 stay on? 265 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:14.279 And I think we should do a test. We should 266 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:18.440 get a similar battery powered lantern like that. Probably can 267 00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:22.359 get one on eBay and toss it into a lake 268 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:23.440 and see what happens. 269 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:25.359 All right, we should do that. That would be really fun. 270 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:27.440 Actually right, all right, we're gonna have to work on 271 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:32.079 that one now. Much like other incidents we talk about. Also, 272 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:37.319 people start seeing men in dark suits, unmarked vehicles, strange 273 00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:44.880 scientific instruments, including people with Geiger counters. So townspeople want 274 00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:48.079 to know, well, what did they find before this lantern? 275 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:51.440 The lantern seemed like a very convenient story, but they 276 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:55.960 felt that something else, bigger was going on, and I 277 00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:58.240 think let's take a second break before we delve into 278 00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:01.440 what really is going on. Jump into our second break, Brian, 279 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:03.759 this is Hudson. 280 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.079 River Radio dot com, your local Rockland County station. 281 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:22.279 This is Hudson River Radio dot Com. We're back with 282 00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:26.160 a lantern at the bottom of a lake in Carbondale, Pennsylvania. 283 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:27.839 That's the end of the story. Everybody, goodnight. 284 00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:33.519 Sounds sounds reasonable to me. 285 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:37.519 At least it wasn't swamp gas or venus that the 286 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:38.279 kids saw. 287 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:40.759 That's true, you know, venus at. 288 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:46.240 The bottom of the pond. It's possible. Well, in the aftermaths, 289 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:48.920 there were quite a few theories that began to take shape, 290 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:52.440 and of course, one of the biggest ones was a 291 00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:57.599 government cover up, and witnesses claimed that they saw federal 292 00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:02.039 agents who appeared very rapidly in quiet. They sealed off 293 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:07.200 the site and they may have removed something before crowds 294 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.680 started to really gather. So there's rumors that something was 295 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:14.519 trucked out of the site. And covered up like on 296 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:19.880 a tarp or with a tarp over it. No complete 297 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:23.000 evidence of that, but these are what some people claim 298 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:27.039 to have seen. The late arrival of divers and the 299 00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:31.920 overnight glow that mysteriously stopped added to that suspicion. And 300 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:37.319 again people said they saw agents or men with Geiger counters, 301 00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:43.519 and they insisted these conspiracy who believed it was a 302 00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:47.599 cover up, insisted that the real object was removed and 303 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:51.319 the lantern was just planted there sort of as a 304 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:57.599 convenient explanation. So they took the alien object and in 305 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:07.519 its place left some rinking railroad lantern battery operated. Now 306 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:12.039 there's a hoax theory, and it's reasonable to sort of 307 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:14.279 look at this from multiple angles. I know, we always 308 00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:18.440 talk about this. Skeptics said the teens may have simply 309 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:22.160 thrown the lantern into the water themselves, seeking attention, or 310 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:27.319 just pulling a prank. Railroad lanterns from that era could 311 00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:32.279 shine brightly if they still had battery. Life theories suggested 312 00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:35.680 the boys never imagined it would escalate to such a level, 313 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:38.640 but once the press arrived, it was too late to 314 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:43.640 change their story. Now, if we remember, the boys are 315 00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:46.039 the ones who reported this in the first place to 316 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:50.200 the police, So I'm not sure if they were looking 317 00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:52.119 to pull a hoax. They never really said it was 318 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:55.839 a UFO. They just saw something crash into the water 319 00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:59.440 and notified the police department. Seems like a stretch that 320 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:03.480 the kids or trying to get attention by throwing an old, 321 00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:09.440 you know, lantern into the into the pond. So I 322 00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:11.400 definitely don't buy that one. I don't know what you 323 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:12.799 think about that, Linda, but. 324 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:19.160 Yeah, it's they weren't saying they weren't being invaded by aliens. 325 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.440 I think it was more of a concern of some 326 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:25.440 sort of conventional aircraft maybe had crashed. 327 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:32.000 Now again we go to the mass hysteria or mass 328 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:37.400 misinterpretation theory, and this is where you know people note 329 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:41.839 that in moments of uncertainty and social pressure, people may 330 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:48.039 unintentionally reinforce shared beliefs. So it's perceptual misattribution, I learned 331 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:49.200 is the correct. 332 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:52.400 Terminology, perceptual misattribution. 333 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:57.200 I like that. Well. Under this theory, it's argued that 334 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:00.279 the bright light in the sky sky could have been 335 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:05.599 a meteor or an aircraft, but in the emotional haze 336 00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:08.440 of the moment, it became something much more. 337 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:15.680 Why would an aircraft freak people out or a meteor 338 00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:17.119 unless you know, unle, I. 339 00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:22.359 Still don't address the object crashing into. 340 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:25.839 The pond, right and seeing the bubbles and the bubbles 341 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:27.279 and the lights. 342 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:31.960 And the light and now did not a newspaper reporter 343 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:36.400 get a photograph of the like with the. 344 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:44.240 Lightline want to look? So, I mean, yeah, that's that 345 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:46.759 sounds like a Project Blue book. I'm surprised I don't 346 00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:51.240 see that one in there and their official reports, you know, 347 00:22:51.759 --> 00:23:00.680 perceptual mass attribution or misattribution misattribution military experiment, which we 348 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:03.640 hear often. Another theory suggesting that the object was a 349 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:08.960 secret military aircraft or type of drone that malfunctioned and crashed. 350 00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:12.039 The lantern in this case would have just been a 351 00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:17.400 nice easy scapegoat to divert attention from the military. So 352 00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:21.240 I would suspect the military would have something better than 353 00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:29.559 an old, rusty railroad era lantern. But I guess it's plausible. 354 00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:32.200 And then some just argue as a meteorite and it 355 00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:33.240 fell into the pond. 356 00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:36.759 That's pause, that's fine, yep. 357 00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:40.319 I mean they didn't get in there with you know, 358 00:23:40.359 --> 00:23:43.200 if it was an iron meteorite. They probably didn't go 359 00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:47.319 in there with metal detecting equipment or anything. 360 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:51.960 And they feel the lantern was just a coincidence. But 361 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:54.599 then how did it get turned on if it was glowing? 362 00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:56.319 You know? 363 00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:01.000 And and like you said, if people really believed it 364 00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:03.640 was a meteorite, wouldn't they send divers back down maybe 365 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:06.279 to look for remnants of. 366 00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:11.599 A meteorite, particularly since they're worth an awful lot of money. 367 00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:15.079 I aren't they valuable, very valuable. 368 00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:17.839 There was that one I think it was in the 369 00:24:17.960 --> 00:24:23.519 seventies where in peak skill New York, meteorite hit the 370 00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:26.440 back of a woman's car, you know when cars had 371 00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:27.240 big trunks. 372 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:30.119 It went right through the trunk. 373 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:33.559 Into the ground, and she sold the car and the 374 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:37.720 meteorite to a museum for a lot of money, a 375 00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:41.759 lot of money. So if they really thought it was 376 00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:46.400 a meteorite that went into the pond, a lot more 377 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:49.160 effort would have been put into that. 378 00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:53.319 I would suspect so. And well, maybe now we're talking 379 00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:55.480 about it, some divers out there going, heyre was that 380 00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:56.079 pond again? 381 00:24:56.359 --> 00:25:01.519 Yeah? Exactly, not a bad idea to go in And 382 00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:05.559 you know now that it could be a stony media, right, 383 00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:12.359 but I think predominantly they're iron based, you know, metallic. 384 00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:16.119 So you go in there with some good equipment or 385 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:18.119 even probably don't even have to dive. 386 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:19.920 You can probably do it off of a boat. 387 00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:26.920 And if it's iron, it would be magnetic, right, So 388 00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:30.319 those magnets people use the magnet fishing. 389 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:34.079 You can try magnet fishing or just do a do 390 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:38.359 a scan of the whole lake bottom and see see 391 00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:40.880 if there's any large metallic returns. 392 00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:43.279 Well, if anybody does that, please let us know. 393 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.200 I'll be there y road trip. 394 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:50.119 Do we have a way to scan the bottom, because 395 00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:50.759 I'll go with you. 396 00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:53.599 Ah, not yet. 397 00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:59.960 Buried under how many years of muck? And yeah, you know, 398 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:05.480 but I wanted to mention here that oftentimes when people 399 00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:08.960 talk about this event, they kind of refer to it 400 00:26:09.160 --> 00:26:12.440 as how explanations are giving, and they relate it to 401 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:15.960