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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Why We Do what we Do. Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to Why We Do what we Do Mini. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 1>Abraham and that Mero Shane. We are a psychology podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>We talk about the things that humans and non human

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<v Speaker 1>animals do and sometimes when they just fall apart. This

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<v Speaker 1>is a mini format. We release these on Mondays. There

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<v Speaker 1>are a short form sort of discussion. We try and

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<v Speaker 1>get in and out of there in fifteen minutes or

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<v Speaker 1>less is the goal. Sometimes we accomplish that, sometimes we don't.

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<v Speaker 1>Who knows what today is going to be, but you're

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<v Speaker 1>here for it. We appreciate it, so thank you for

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<v Speaker 1>joining us. If you're here for the first time, then

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<v Speaker 1>we hope that you joined this episode. And if you

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<v Speaker 1>have not done so already. Even if you have done

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<v Speaker 1>so already, you can support us by liking, subscribing, telling

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<v Speaker 1>a friend, joining us on Patreon. I'll talk more about

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<v Speaker 1>those discussions or those things at the end of this discussion.

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<v Speaker 1>Not those discussions, but those strategies. But I think that

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<v Speaker 1>is we're jumping into this thing. Is there anything I

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<v Speaker 1>missed or you'd like to add before we talk about

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<v Speaker 1>our topic?

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<v Speaker 2>Dujuur, No, let's talk about my life not just kidding.

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<v Speaker 2>Le's talk yeah, let's talk about like, let's talk about this.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm so excited.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, all right. If you didn't see the title, or

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<v Speaker 1>even if you did, well, tease it a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>You might see people in their forties and fifties who

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<v Speaker 1>are going through some things. They're getting divorced, they might

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<v Speaker 1>be buying fancy cars, they might be quitting or starting

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<v Speaker 1>new jobs, and you look at them and you think

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<v Speaker 1>to yourself, they're going through a midlife crisis. Well, if

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<v Speaker 1>you're in the United States, you might be thinking that

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<v Speaker 1>at least spoiler.

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<v Speaker 3>Spoiler, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So midlife crises are tumultuous times adults experience as they

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<v Speaker 2>head into the middle of their lifetime, as the name suggests,

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<v Speaker 2>often characterized by what appears to be impulsive, irresponsible, and desperate.

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<v Speaker 2>These behaviors seem to indicate these poor adults are confronted

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<v Speaker 2>by the fact that they are moving into the twilight

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<v Speaker 2>years of their life, an attempt to recapture their youth

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<v Speaker 2>by acting, I guess youthful. Yeah, I never bought a

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<v Speaker 2>fancy car when I was youthful, but I guess I

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<v Speaker 2>was impulsive.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, yeah, something like that. Maybe they like get a

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<v Speaker 1>new partner who is significantly younger than them, all kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of stuff. We're going to unpack what midlife crises are

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<v Speaker 1>and what science has to say about this. So let's

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<v Speaker 1>start with some basic descriptions, as we kind of already did. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>let's talk about midlife crises.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so, the.

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<v Speaker 2>Midlife age ranges from thirty to seventy, but more consistently

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<v Speaker 2>as identified as forty to sixty, with thirty nine being

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<v Speaker 2>a specific COSPA, which if some of the effects of

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<v Speaker 2>a midlife crisis are going to happen, they'll likely happen here.

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<v Speaker 2>So thankfully I'm on the other side of that.

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<v Speaker 1>At least that's what they say.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>One source that we found listed some warning signs that

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<v Speaker 1>someone might be experiencing a midlife crisis, that they're feeling

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<v Speaker 1>trapped in the momentum of your life, obsessively comparing yourself

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<v Speaker 1>to others, feeling trapped in a dull career, having nightmare

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<v Speaker 1>as an anxiety, questioning life decisions, with drawing from friends

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<v Speaker 1>and family, feeling a need to escape, and feeling like

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<v Speaker 1>you have no one to talk to or to support

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<v Speaker 1>you through any of those things. That's sort of the

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<v Speaker 1>sort of emotional signals that they indicate you might be

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<v Speaker 1>experiencing a midlife crisis.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And as we mentioned, the stereotype cliche is buying

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<v Speaker 2>expensive things such as fancy cars, or suddenly changing careers,

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<v Speaker 2>or getting divorced or possibly starting a new relationship with

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<v Speaker 2>the younger partner. Those tend to be kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>the flagship the hallmarks of a real good midlife crisis.

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<v Speaker 1>It's great, I'll think, yeah. And there are some studies

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<v Speaker 1>that show that life satisfaction does tend to decrease over

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<v Speaker 1>time with age, particularly as we're getting into this section

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<v Speaker 1>of thirties and particularly the forties and whatnot, and it

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<v Speaker 1>often kind of decreases from there onward. There are some

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<v Speaker 1>data to suggest that once you sort of get out

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<v Speaker 1>of that range that maybe goes back up, but mostly

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<v Speaker 1>it sort of says as you're hitting this sort of

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<v Speaker 1>mid point here, that life satisfaction decreases. Many psychologists have

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<v Speaker 1>pointed out that there are a lot of stressors that

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<v Speaker 1>can start emerging during this time as well. You've got

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<v Speaker 1>children who are leaving the house, maybe even graduating college

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<v Speaker 1>and going off to other places. There can be fights

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<v Speaker 1>with the spouse that are going on work can have

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of responsibilities and deadlines, and even could be

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<v Speaker 1>at the point where people maybe are feeling a little

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<v Speaker 1>pushed out because they've been in their career for a

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<v Speaker 1>long time and have newer people coming in friends and family.

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<v Speaker 1>You start will get to get you to the point

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<v Speaker 1>where people are starting to pass away at a slightly

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<v Speaker 1>higher rate, which can be very difficult and traumatic to

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<v Speaker 1>deal with. And although midlife crises can technically happen to anyone,

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<v Speaker 1>they do seem particularly stereotypically more likely to happen among men.

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<v Speaker 1>And in that group of people, there is some who

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<v Speaker 1>have claimed that there is silence suffering. They're not really

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<v Speaker 1>talking about the fact that they're feeling these things, that

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<v Speaker 1>they're going through these things, and so it sometimes all

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<v Speaker 1>of the sudden, their behavior seems to kind of come

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<v Speaker 1>out of nowhere when they are not sharing their thoughts

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<v Speaker 1>and feelings about those sort of situations. So that's all

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<v Speaker 1>kind of stuff that we do see that is more

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<v Speaker 1>or less backed up by some amount of studies, research, science, observation,

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<v Speaker 1>self report, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, now there are some caveats on pack here. Let's

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<v Speaker 2>start with the fact that that's her midlife crisis was

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<v Speaker 2>coined by psychoanalyst Elliott Jacques, that is, a Freudian psychologist

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen sixty. So this is a recent phenomenon. This

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<v Speaker 2>is not something that was happening to Victorian era powdered

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<v Speaker 2>wig wearing nerds like this was happening. This is only

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<v Speaker 2>a recent at least the name suggests this is a

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<v Speaker 2>recent phenomenon.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, yeah, only the last sixty some odd years. Like

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<v Speaker 1>That's that was interesting to me to think that, like, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>this is you would think that this is like an

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<v Speaker 1>idea that had been around for quite a while. And

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<v Speaker 1>although for younger people sixty some odd years probably sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like a crazy amount of times. I mean, that's what

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<v Speaker 1>the reason, like that was within the last century that

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<v Speaker 1>this was coined initially.

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<v Speaker 3>Not a long time for science.

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<v Speaker 1>Not a long time for science. And then yeah, as

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<v Speaker 1>we said, immediate red flag when a psychoanalyst claims anything

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<v Speaker 1>about how behavior works, or when they introduce an ad.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, we're back. We've been talking about the origins

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<v Speaker 1>of this idea, or at least the term for a

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<v Speaker 1>midlife crisis.

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<v Speaker 3>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>Ironically, Carl Jung, a contemporary of Freud who didn't really

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<v Speaker 1>call himself a psychoanalyst, but for all intents and purposes,

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<v Speaker 1>he was young saw midlife slightly differently, writing that quote,

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<v Speaker 1>midlife was a time when previously suppressed aspects of the

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<v Speaker 1>psyche might become integrated. Men could recover their unconscious feminine

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<v Speaker 1>side or anima previous submerged during their youth, and women

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<v Speaker 1>come alive to their hidden opposite or the animus. And

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<v Speaker 1>I don't really know what he's trying to say there,

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<v Speaker 1>but it seems like he's indicating that, like, we maybe

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<v Speaker 1>go through some evolutionary psychologically evolutionary type steps, but that

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't necessarily mean that they are counterproductive or harmful. Sure, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's my response.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's kind of like I'm just like all right, like.

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<v Speaker 1>Those are things you said, Yeah, those are things.

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<v Speaker 3>That you said.

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<v Speaker 2>It sounds like one of those like influencers who's like

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<v Speaker 2>a wellness influencer, just saying stuff and they're like sure,

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<v Speaker 2>like that's this.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyway, there is a reason to be skeptical about theories

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<v Speaker 2>that come with from psychoanalysts. And it's not just us

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<v Speaker 2>going like, oh, well, psychoanalysis blah blah blah, Like there's

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<v Speaker 2>a reason why. And to add to that that while

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<v Speaker 2>some studies show decrease life satisfaction, the actual decrease was

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<v Speaker 2>pretty minuscule and not very significant. So like our current

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<v Speaker 2>body of literature suggests that life satisfaction is probably not

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<v Speaker 2>as important or as much of a factor in this

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<v Speaker 2>as like it could be made out to be, well, but.

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<v Speaker 1>It actually doesn't go down that much. They're like, they

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<v Speaker 1>do see a decrease, but it was like, right, from

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<v Speaker 1>a five point zero to a four point nine, And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, right, that is a decrease, but is it

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<v Speaker 1>an important decrease?

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<v Speaker 3>You know? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>And furthermore, a longitudinal study at least one show that

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<v Speaker 1>adults forty one to fifty became less neurotic and self conscious,

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<v Speaker 1>so they're like just more secure and who they were.

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<v Speaker 1>Another one showed that women from forty three to fifty

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<v Speaker 1>two became less dependent and self critical and they became

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<v Speaker 1>more confident, responsible, and decisive, so again sort of more

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<v Speaker 1>assured and more comfortable with who they were and everything.

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<v Speaker 1>So that does to me raise the inquiry of, like,

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<v Speaker 1>how were those questionnaires set up in phrase that you

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<v Speaker 1>would get these very different sort of reports, Because that's

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<v Speaker 1>a really relevant consideration is like, did you tee them

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<v Speaker 1>up to answer in the way that you thought that

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<v Speaker 1>you wanted them to answer, even if that wasn't necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>the intent. That does happen. Sometimes we're not necessarily considering

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<v Speaker 1>our bias when designing these questionnaires that may or may

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<v Speaker 1>not be a very accurate representation of how we think

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<v Speaker 1>and feel. They are not.

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<v Speaker 2>Right now, only about ten to twenty percent of adult

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<v Speaker 2>experience anything even remotely resembling a crisis, which rarely or

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<v Speaker 2>never reaches a full blown crisis.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a fairly rare phenomenon.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it's like, this isn't an inevitable part of

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<v Speaker 1>adulthood either. It's like, should anybody experience anything like this,

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<v Speaker 1>It's a relatively small amount and it never actually like

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<v Speaker 1>becomes a crisis, or almost never. In the extent to

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<v Speaker 1>which people experience some sort of midlife crisis or midlife distress,

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<v Speaker 1>it's usually better explained by things like life circumstances, some

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<v Speaker 1>amount of culture, the context that's relevant for that person,

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<v Speaker 1>and not really explained by just the age. Like that

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<v Speaker 1>seems to be the implication of the idea of the

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<v Speaker 1>midlife crisis is it's because you've entered midlife and that's

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<v Speaker 1>the reason that these things are happening. And it's actually like, no,

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<v Speaker 1>there's things are happening around you that happen to happen

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<v Speaker 1>during midlife. That tends to be somewhat distressing for some people.

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<v Speaker 1>Parents whose children are growd when in college might suddenly

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<v Speaker 1>find themselves with a bunch more income that they weren't

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<v Speaker 1>spending when they had kids, a bunch more time that

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<v Speaker 1>they weren't spending when they had kids. And they also

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<v Speaker 1>might be senior enough in their position at work that

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<v Speaker 1>their work has become more flexible. So all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 1>they got disposable income and time on their hands, and

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<v Speaker 1>they're like having fun with it. It's not a crisis.

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<v Speaker 1>They're just like, hey, cool, I got some stuff I

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<v Speaker 1>can do now.

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<v Speaker 2>Right exactly, it's free time, baby. They start spending more

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<v Speaker 2>freely because they can. Sometimes they realize that their relationship

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<v Speaker 2>was only being held together by their kids, and with

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<v Speaker 2>them out of the equation, they discovered they don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to stay in their relationships. I mean, parenting is really complex,

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<v Speaker 2>and when you don't have time to talk to another

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<v Speaker 2>person and there are no children involved, and then you go, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>you're a different person than when we first met, Like

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<v Speaker 2>that can be really complicated to navigate, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And that just relationships change. People grow and change,

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<v Speaker 1>and sometimes they don't evolve together, they evolve apart. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>And that can happen sometimes, and like when there's not

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<v Speaker 1>really a reason for them to suffer each other any longer,

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<v Speaker 1>they sort of feel like, well, I think we did

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<v Speaker 1>the thing. Let's go our separate ways now, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And now that that happens, that often either, Like it's

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<v Speaker 1>like a lot of people also stick through and they

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<v Speaker 1>do just fine. It's just it could happen. There's this

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<v Speaker 1>sort of relative swath of people for whom that will

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<v Speaker 1>be true. Now, there might be some people who do

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<v Speaker 1>find themselves confronted by their most mortality, possibly because they

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<v Speaker 1>live in a culture that emphasizes the importance of youth.

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<v Speaker 1>They it might be a culture that emphasizes the lack

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<v Speaker 1>of utility of elderly people, and that could potentially make

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<v Speaker 1>some people start to question their self worth as they're

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<v Speaker 1>heading into that segment of the age range. So if

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<v Speaker 1>the culture supports it and it emphasizes it, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>in the zeitgeist, the awareness of people probably more likely

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<v Speaker 1>to happen as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Right Relatedly, it seems to be a Western English speaking,

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<v Speaker 2>possibly largely American phenomenon. Many other cultures don't even have

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<v Speaker 2>the idea of a midlife crisis or even a midlife

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<v Speaker 2>age range. So this is uniquely it feels like at

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<v Speaker 2>least a uniquely American thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, at least sort of Western English speaking type thing.

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<v Speaker 1>But it does seem largely like it is a United

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<v Speaker 1>States potential United States problem. Yeah, like other people that like,

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<v Speaker 1>what is midlife? What does that mean? They don't have

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<v Speaker 1>language for that because they've never considered that that was

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<v Speaker 1>a thing that needed to be delineated as a part

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<v Speaker 1>of your developmental trajectory. Sure, So all this leaves us

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<v Speaker 1>with is is there even such a thing as a

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<v Speaker 1>midlife crisis? Uh? Kind of maybe for some people, but

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<v Speaker 1>mostly because as we head into that part of our

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<v Speaker 1>lives in which we're experiencing a lot of circumstantial changes

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<v Speaker 1>that can come with different ways of responding to those changes.

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<v Speaker 1>Some of those are very helpful and positive, some of

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<v Speaker 1>them are distressing and difficult. Sure, and that just means that,

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<v Speaker 1>like when we become faced with these major life changes,

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<v Speaker 1>our priorities can change. Sometimes what seemed like it was

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<v Speaker 1>really important, maybe it doesn't seem so important anymore. Something

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<v Speaker 1>that didn't use to seem so important suddenly starts to

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<v Speaker 1>feel kind of important. That just happens when we go

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<v Speaker 1>through big, like major changes, like all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 1>our kids are completely gone, all of a sudden, Like

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<v Speaker 1>I'm realizing I don't really like this person I've been

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<v Speaker 1>with this whole time, you know whatever, all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 1>like I'm realizing that, Like I don't have a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of potential for advancment in my career. Maybe I look

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<v Speaker 1>elsewhere and see what else I can potentially do that

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<v Speaker 1>would bring me more joy. And sometimes none of those

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<v Speaker 1>things happen. Most of the time, none of those things happen.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like, right, there doesn't seem to be the crisis,

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<v Speaker 1>and it doesn't seem to happen that often if it

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<v Speaker 1>does happen at all, right, exactly, And of course, what

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<v Speaker 1>we was gonna leave with, Like there are some people

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<v Speaker 1>who expressed in some of the resources that I found,

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<v Speaker 1>at least a lot there are people who expressed a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of concern over the rates of suicide that can

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<v Speaker 1>happen among this group. We are at a time right

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<v Speaker 1>now in our country where it seems like deaths that

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<v Speaker 1>are related to despair and suicide are very high at

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<v Speaker 1>the moment. This tends to happen in conservative administrations. The

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<v Speaker 1>data are there, just look it up. We have a

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<v Speaker 1>particularly aggressively dangerous one right now, and that does seem

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<v Speaker 1>to be correlated with those insan and that could be

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<v Speaker 1>really tough for people to deal with. And that is

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<v Speaker 1>a thing that we're more likely to face the longer

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<v Speaker 1>that we stay alive. And so that is something that's

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<v Speaker 1>related to the midlife experience. If you or someone you

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<v Speaker 1>know is experiencing thoughts of self harm or distress that

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<v Speaker 1>may result in self harm or harmed others, please call

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<v Speaker 1>nine to eight eight. That is the national hotline. You

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<v Speaker 1>can reach and talk to somebody who can help work

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<v Speaker 1>you through those work with you through those issues for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, I think that's what we have to say

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<v Speaker 1>about midlife crises. They may or may not be a thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there anything you would like to add that I

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<v Speaker 1>forgot before we wrap this up?

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<v Speaker 3>No, I think that covers all of it perfect Well.

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<v Speaker 1>We're right about fifteen minutes, so I'll try and do

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<v Speaker 1>this quick. If you'd like to support us, you can

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<v Speaker 1>leave us a rating and a review like subscribe at

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<v Speaker 1>Tell a Friend or join us on Patreon. If you

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<v Speaker 1>do that, you'll get some extra goodies and add free episodes,

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<v Speaker 1>and I will shout your name out at the end

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<v Speaker 1>of our full length discussions. If you like to leave

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<v Speaker 1>us your thoughts about midlife crises, please email us. You

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<v Speaker 1>can contact us directly at info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com,

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<v Speaker 1>and we do look forward to hearing from you. But

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<v Speaker 1>this is way you have to say about this, and

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<v Speaker 1>we're at our time for a mini so let's go

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<v Speaker 1>ahead and close it out here. This is Abraham, mister Shane,

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<v Speaker 1>Why We Do what We Do? Any is out.

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<v Speaker 3>Bye.

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<v Speaker 1>You've been listening to Why We Do What We Do.

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<v Speaker 2>You can learn more about this and other episodes by

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<v Speaker 2>going to WWD WWD.

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<v Speaker 1>Podcast dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening, and we hope you have an awesome day.