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No purchase necessary void We're prohibited by Law 51 00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:02.359 eighteen plus terms conditions applying to the website for detail. 52 00:02:12.639 --> 00:02:16.080 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 53 00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:19.199 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 54 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:26.560 written about them, Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 55 00:02:26.599 --> 00:02:30.280 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 56 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:34.879 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 57 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:49.439 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. Good Evening. 58 00:02:50.599 --> 00:02:54.520 This episode of True Murder is brought to you by Squarespace. 59 00:02:55.400 --> 00:03:00.599 Squarespace is the easiest way to create a beautiful website, blog, 60 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:05.000 or online store for you and your ideas. Start a 61 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:09.960 free trial today, no credit card required. Experience Squarespace at 62 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:13.960 squarespace dot com and enter offer code true Murder for 63 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:21.159 a ten percent discount. Jack the Ripper stocked the streets 64 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:26.080 of London's East End from August through November of eighteen 65 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:31.800 eighty eight, in what is dubbed the Autumn of Terror. However, 66 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:35.360 the grizzly ripping of Paully Nichols on August thirty first 67 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:39.080 was not the first unsolved murder of the year. The 68 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:42.439 April murder of Emma Smith and the August murder of 69 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:47.520 Martha Tabram both occurred on bank holidays. They baffled the 70 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:50.919 police and press alike, and were assumed by the original 71 00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:54.280 investigators to have been the first murders in the series. 72 00:03:55.039 --> 00:04:00.000 Were they correct? In this provocative work of literary archaeology, 73 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:04.639 author Tom Westcott places these early murders in their proper 74 00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:08.199 historical context and digs to on earth new evidence and 75 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:10.960 hard facts not seen in over one hundred and twenty 76 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:14.439 five years. The Bank Holiday Murders is the only book 77 00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:18.759 of its kind. It issues the tired approach of unsatisfying 78 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:22.680 final solutions in favor of solid research, logical reasoning, and 79 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:26.600 new information. The clues followed are not drawn from imagination, 80 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:29.800 but from the actual police reports and press accounts of 81 00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:33.759 the time. The questions asked by Westcott are ones first 82 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:37.839 suggested by the original investigators but lost to time until now. 83 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:42.560 The answers provided are compelling and sometimes explosive. Among the 84 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:45.959 revelations are new information linking the murders of Smith and 85 00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:49.519 Tabrum to the same killer or killers, Proof that the 86 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:53.839 police did not believe key witnesses in either case, proof 87 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:56.639 that at least one of these witnesses working with the murderer. 88 00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:03.319 New evidence connecting men of the victims that may lead 89 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:06.920 to their actual slayers. Information on Emily Horsnell, the actual 90 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:10.800 first Whitechapel murder victim. The hidden truth of leather Apron 91 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:14.639 and its rule in unraveling the Ripper. Mystery proof of 92 00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:18.480 a corrupt police sergeant who forwarded the investigation was he 93 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:22.560 protecting the Ripper. The book that we're featuring this evening 94 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:25.560 is The Bank Holiday Murders, The true story of the 95 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:30.519 First Whitechapel Murders, with my special guest, journalist and author 96 00:05:31.959 --> 00:05:34.480 Tom Wescott. Welcome to the program, and thank you for 97 00:05:34.519 --> 00:05:40.560 agreeing to this interview. Tom Wescott, Hello, can you hear me? Absolutely? 98 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:42.480 Welcome to the program, Tom. 99 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:45.800 Well, good, Thank you for having me, Dan, I appreciate it. 100 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:49.839 Thank you very much. We had a you scheduled once 101 00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:52.199 upon a time, so I'm glad that we finally got 102 00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:57.160 you on here with this compelling book that again talks 103 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:00.959 about Jack the Ripper. But you have a very very 104 00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:04.879 unique perspective on this. Before we start for our audience, 105 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:07.720 and I did want to call you a ripperologist, because 106 00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:10.240 I don't really know who wants to be called that 107 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:14.319 and exactly what that means, but exactly tell us your 108 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:19.959 background involving all things Ripper and Jack the Ripper, And 109 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:24.240 tell us your background and how, without giving anything away, 110 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:28.879 how you came to write this book with this particular 111 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:31.959 perspective surrounding Jack the Ripper. 112 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:36.319 Sure, sure, well, I personally I don't shy away from 113 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:40.480 the word ripperlogist. I don't feel any sort of negative 114 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:44.000 connotation from it. I think for a time there, ten 115 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:47.319 years ago or so, it was sort of a fringe, 116 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:50.560 you know name, people shied away from it. But nowadays, 117 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:54.000 because there's the journal of our field is called Ripperologist, 118 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:57.720 and it's a highly highly respected journal. It's also free, 119 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:01.839 you know, anyone can subscribe to it. So I'm proud 120 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:05.199 of that title. I got into ripper Ology back in 121 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:10.279 the nineties. Uh, just just by accident. I think it's 122 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:12.000 you know, it says bug that bite you, is what 123 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:14.920 it is. And I picked up a book in a 124 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:18.519 used bookstore, a ripper book that happened to be misplaced 125 00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:21.240 in the horror fiction section, and which is what I 126 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:23.079 went there looking for. It was a horror fiction book. 127 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:26.720 And I found this nonfiction book on the Ripper and 128 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:29.079 just grabbed it on a lark, and I went home 129 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:32.839 and I read it, and I said, you know, is 130 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:37.399 this really the solution? And and then I it was 131 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:39.480 the burgeoning days of the internet. I looked on there 132 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:44.079 found the Casebook website, which is the big Ripper website, 133 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:46.759 one of two big Ripper websites, and saw there were 134 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:49.000 all these other books. So I started checking them out 135 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:52.279 at the library or buying them and uh, and it 136 00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:54.720 was just one thing after another. What happens when you 137 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:57.480 do this? And and people who read ripper books will 138 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:01.360 will recognize this in themselves. The more you read, the 139 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:04.319 more naturally you're going to learn. You're going to remember details, 140 00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:06.759 and then you're going to notice when authors make mistakes 141 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:09.800 or when they get a detail, you know, look at 142 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:11.920 it from a different angle from someone else. And you 143 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:15.800 start developing your own opinions and thoughts and ideas along 144 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:19.160 the way, And next thing you know, you're researching those 145 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:22.720 to see if you're right and they're wrong. And then 146 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:24.959 that's kind of how this thing and it just snowballs 147 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:28.839 from there until you know, eventually you've got a room 148 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:32.360 of your house filled with Ripper books and magazines and 149 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:35.000 old you know. One hundred and twenty six year old newspapers, 150 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:39.039 and then at some point in my case, it was, 151 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:41.919 you know, my research led me into certain avenues that 152 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:44.600 were new because I didn't want to just be there's 153 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:46.519 a lot of Ripper books out there that are crap. 154 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:49.559 That's just there's so many of them that that's just 155 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:51.720 by nature, there's going to be a portion of them 156 00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:56.360 that are just a waste of money. I personally think 157 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:59.559 that's probably about seventy percent of the books out there 158 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:04.279 into that category, and then another twenty percent are decent, 159 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:07.360 you know, they're harmless, and then maybe five to ten 160 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:10.799 percent are you know, really you gotta have them books. 161 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:12.519 And so I wanted to put something out that fit 162 00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:16.600 into that five percent. Whether I succeeded or failed, you know, 163 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:18.960 will be up to the individual perspective. I think I 164 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:23.080 succeeded because the majority of stuff in my book does 165 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:25.879 not appear in other books in terms of how I 166 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:29.360 interpret it, and also new evidence presented that hasn't appeared 167 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:35.039 in books before the first Ripper or the first Whitechapel Murder, 168 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:38.720 which Emily Horsnell. I don't believe her name has ever 169 00:09:38.759 --> 00:09:42.759 appeared in a Ripper book until mine. So but anyways, 170 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:44.759 there you go that. The short answer to your question 171 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:48.519 is I got into it, not really by choice. It's 172 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:50.480 just a bug that bit me and has stayed with me, 173 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:54.919 and by accident and luck. More than anything else, I've 174 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:57.320 stumbled on some things that I thought other people who 175 00:09:57.440 --> 00:09:59.879 interested in the case should know. And that's where this 176 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:02.279 came from. 177 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:06.919 You talk about in this book that you it's not 178 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:09.720 a typical book in terms of final solution, in terms 179 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:12.759 of wrapping up the entire mystery and saying conclusively, here 180 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:16.240 is the killer, and here here it is. But in 181 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:22.159 writing this book you also were looking at a different project. 182 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:25.120 So tell us what who you were looking at in 183 00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:27.799 terms of a suspect. Talk about this chile Y brand, 184 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.600 and tell us about how it morphed into looking at 185 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:35.679 this person to the focus of the project here with 186 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:37.399 the Bank Holiday murders. 187 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:41.559 Well, one of the suspects who intrigues me more than 188 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:44.559 anyone and who is not discussed in the Bank Holiday murders, 189 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:47.320 I'll say that upfront, But his name is Charles Legrand. 190 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:50.480 He is the subject of a future book of mine 191 00:10:51.799 --> 00:10:56.120 which myself and fellow researchers, primarily a lady named Debrah 192 00:10:56.200 --> 00:11:00.679 Arab has researched extensively over the last decade, but and 193 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:03.120 he has never had a book dedicated to him. This guy, 194 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:09.200 Charles Lagrant, in a nutshell, is a sociopath, psychopath, very dangerous. 195 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:14.440 He was a pimp. He instigated himself into the Ripper 196 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:19.399 investigation following the murder of Elizabeth Stride. He fabricated evidence 197 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:23.440 through the police off track, almost certainly, wrote the what's 198 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:28.480 called the from Hell Letter, and was cited by a 199 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:31.360 certain member of Parliament as being the man most likely 200 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:34.799 in London to have been Jack the Ripper. And yet 201 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:37.639 you know, he didn't have a book about him. So 202 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:40.039 I'm going to write that book because I've got a 203 00:11:40.039 --> 00:11:43.279 lot of cool stuff on him. But so anyways, I 204 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:45.519 decided I'm going to write this book on Charles Lagrant. 205 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:48.879 But before I my idea was this, I didn't want 206 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:52.000 to do another suspect book. I never wanted to do that. 207 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:54.360 So my idea was, I'm going to start at square one, 208 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:56.360 the first murder, which at that time I thought was 209 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:00.639 Emma Smith, and I'm going to research without bias scratch, 210 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:03.399 starting at square one, and work my way forward through 211 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:06.519 all the murders, putting Charles Legrand out of my mind, 212 00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:12.240 leaving myself open to any new avenues or interpretations, and 213 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:14.519 lo and behold. You know, by the time I hit 214 00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:20.399 Martha Tabram, the second of the official Whitechapel murders, I'm 215 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:25.000 noticing things, and chiefly surrounding this character Pearly Paul, who 216 00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:28.320 was allegedly a friend of Martha Tabram's. Things weren't adding 217 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.320 up in her statement and in the evidence, and so 218 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:33.320 I said, well, let me follow this. And I started 219 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:36.120 following this, and it led me to the landlords, the 220 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:38.240 guys who really held the power in the East end 221 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:42.480 of London back in eighteen eighty eight, you know, probably 222 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:45.480 more so. They had more sway over the public than 223 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:48.679 the police did. So that's power. That's power right there, 224 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:51.759 and so it led me back to them. I started 225 00:12:51.759 --> 00:12:54.600 looking at them and just kind of I said, wait 226 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:57.200 a minute. What was supposed to be a couple chapters 227 00:12:57.200 --> 00:12:59.559 of a book is my notes and all of this 228 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:02.159 were I'm like, I can't cover this in like two, 229 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:05.679 you know, ten page chapters. I've got about two hundred 230 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:08.000 pages in front of me. This is a book in 231 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:10.799 its own right, and it needs to be considered in 232 00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:13.159 its own right aside from anything else I want to 233 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.519 talk about. Those can wait for other books. And so 234 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:19.960 that's that's I started. That's when I started writing The 235 00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:23.600 Bank Holiday Murders in a fever pitch back in October 236 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:27.320 of twenty thirteen, and actually finished it in January of 237 00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:31.000 twenty fourteen, just a few months later, and then published 238 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:34.480 it the following month. And at that time I thought, well, 239 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:36.639 this is just this is just a little book, you know, 240 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:40.679 it'll just devotees to the case we'll purchase it. And 241 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:44.600 it's actually become It's done very well for me, actually 242 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:48.039 surprisingly so over the last year, it's performed very well, 243 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:50.919 and the feedback I've gotten has been tremendous and it's 244 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:54.080 just been an utter joy, an utter joy for me. 245 00:13:55.799 --> 00:14:00.000 Well that's great, that's very deserved too. Let's set the stage. 246 00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:03.879 I know that a lot of people have read Ripper books, 247 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:06.720 and probably a lot of the audience knows of the 248 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:12.879 basic premise or the story behind the Ripper mythology and 249 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:16.840 the basic story. But really what I found most fascinating 250 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:21.879 about your book is how sucked in I got into 251 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:25.159 this book due to the descriptions you have of the 252 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:29.320 East end of London in eighteen eighty eight and surrounding years, 253 00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:32.919 and you talked about you alluded to the which is 254 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:36.759 very very important to your whole story is the lodging houses. 255 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:40.279 So tell us about the lodging houses, and tell us 256 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:43.879 about the owners, some of the names like John McCarthy 257 00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:48.720 and some of the names of the lodging houses, and 258 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:52.960 how it worked with people that were managers of those houses. 259 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:57.000 Tell us, I want to really set the stage for 260 00:14:57.559 --> 00:15:01.240 to describe London at this time, what these people were 261 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:04.720 living in, the circumstances. So tell us first with the 262 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:07.159 lodging houses, and then we'll get to the character of 263 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:11.799 some of these men and just the conditions that these 264 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:13.519 people lived in in these lodging houses. 265 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:16.840 Sure sure, well, First let me say thank you Dan 266 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:20.200 for the kind words about the book. I certainly appreciate that, 267 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:24.799 particularly coming from you and the landlords, or I call 268 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:28.320 them the lords of Spittlefields. In my book, a certain 269 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:31.799 section the East end of London where these murders occurred 270 00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:35.480 were essentially a slum land. Not all of it was. 271 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:38.519 There were very respectable people who live there, hardworking people, 272 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:43.159 but in the lodging houses. Just to put it into 273 00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:46.360 a context that a modern American could quickly grasp just think, 274 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:50.919 you know, the projects, project housing. And today in our 275 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:54.360 society the slum lords are the government because the government 276 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:57.519 owns these housing, they run it, and they profit from it. 277 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:00.000 But that wasn't the case in eighteen eighty eight line. 278 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:03.360 The government did not step in and do anything at 279 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:08.960 all for these people. So the landlords were essentially low 280 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:13.759 rent businessmen who came in bought these old, dilapidated houses 281 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:19.399 and rented out beds, not rooms, but beds. You might 282 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:22.600 have a room with fifty beds in it all. You know, 283 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:26.240 the sheets and the clothing may not get washed regularly. 284 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:32.279 They're they're just completely covered in vermin and lice blood, 285 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:35.519 you know, and that's what you're going to sleep in. 286 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:37.639 And then you're going to track this and you're going 287 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:39.919 to carry this to the next house with you, and 288 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:41.840 it's just over and over and over again. There would 289 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:45.639 be a communal kitchen with a fire where you could 290 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:50.559 roast your potatoes. Surprisingly, people didn't really starve back then. 291 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:54.960 Food was cheap and plentiful. It really was, you know 292 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:57.480 what money. You know, you didn't really have to set 293 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:00.320 aside too much money for the food. In fact, you 294 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:02.440 could probably get a lot of it for free, because 295 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:06.240 your money was going for beer. But wherever there is 296 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:09.519 poverty and desperation, there will always be those who want 297 00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:11.880 to come in and capitalize on it and profit from it. 298 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.279 And in this case it was the landlords who not 299 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:17.000 only made money off of their rent because these were 300 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:20.119 homeless people essentially who were coming and paying a nightly 301 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:22.720 doss as it was called, to sleep in one of 302 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:26.440 these beds, but you were also a fence for stolen property. 303 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:29.400 These people would often say, Hey, Dan, I don't have 304 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:31.240 money for my bed, but I have this that I 305 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:33.799 stole today, So you would take that instead, and you 306 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:37.839 would then sell that to the pawnshop or sell it 307 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:40.559 through a pawn shop that you owned. A lot of 308 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:44.759 these landlords also owned local pubs, and the East End 309 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:48.920 of London was crawling with pubs at that time. Alcohol 310 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:54.119 was the crack and the meth of its day. That's 311 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:57.400 what everyone was addicted to in the East End. That 312 00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:00.440 was the predominant drug. So if you owned a pub boy, 313 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:05.279 you were never out of money. And so were these 314 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:07.559 bad men. Not all of them, A lot of them 315 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:12.400 were a lot of them just maybe had less scruples 316 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:15.240 than you or I would. But at the same time, 317 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:17.319 the other way to look at it is if they 318 00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:19.799 weren't their running these homes, these people had nowhere to 319 00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:21.640 sleep because there was no one else to help them. 320 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:25.240 The Salvation Army, which by the way, was given birth 321 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:28.279 by Jack the Ripper more or less, it was beginning 322 00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:32.240 just at that very time, and they were just opening 323 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:36.519 up rooms. And the Salvation Army was born from the 324 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:40.359 East end of London eighteen eighty eight. And Jack the 325 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:43.680 Ripper brought attention to the plight of the people in 326 00:18:43.720 --> 00:18:45.960 this area, and so everyone started giving money to the 327 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:49.279 Salvation Army, and that's how it got its original funding 328 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:51.839 and got its footing and became what we know today. 329 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:57.680 So that's a little interesting tidbit. But all the victims 330 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:02.480 of Jack the Ripper or the White Chapel murderer, you know, 331 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:06.279 lived in these houses. And anyone who's read my book 332 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:09.119 or goes to read it will notice that I discussed 333 00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:13.519 some startling coincidences. And I say that with quotation marks 334 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:17.920 such as that the first you have a number of 335 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:20.559 women in a row who are attacked and or murdered, 336 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:25.240 who all lived in neighboring houses. Two houses on George 337 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:29.279 Street numbers eighteen and nineteen. You have Emily Horse now murdered. 338 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:30.680 You have. 339 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:34.799 Oh, my mind's going blank on me, but another lady 340 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:38.880 who's been attacked and survives but spends twenty days in 341 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:43.039 the hospital, followed by Emma Smith murdered, followed by Martha 342 00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:49.039 Tabram murdered, all between November of eighteen eighty seven and 343 00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:53.640 August of eighteen eighty eight. So in that period, now, 344 00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:55.519 that's an awful lot. And you say, well, in a 345 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:58.720 violent area like that. The thing is is murders were 346 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:03.920 extremely in the East End of London. When you saw 347 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:05.880 a murder, it was typically domestic. It was a man 348 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:08.559 killing his wife nine times out of ten, that's what 349 00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:14.079 it was. Stranger murders such as this were exceedingly rare. 350 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:20.359 And to have that many violent attacks and murders occur 351 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:24.000 to women living in two neighboring houses, I thought, okay, 352 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:29.000 that's just pushing coincidence a little too much. And I 353 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.759 noticed one character who was living in one of these 354 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:36.279 houses at the time was Parley Paul, which was a 355 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:41.279 thirty five year old prostitute, manly looking husky. She was 356 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:46.839 described suffered from chest complaints her whole life and just 357 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:50.119 you know, basically a criminal well known to the police. Anyway, 358 00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:52.920 she presented herself to the police following the murder of 359 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.160 Martha Taberman told a wild story which they believed at 360 00:20:56.160 --> 00:21:00.799 first but then came to understand was a lie. And 361 00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:05.200 the thing is is she went to the police and 362 00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:08.359 identified the body correctly. The body had not been identified 363 00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:10.920 yet as Martha Tabram, but somehow she knew that's who 364 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:13.759 was murdered and already had a fake story made up. 365 00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:16.599 And I thought, okay, this is highly suspicious. This is 366 00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:20.359 something somebody does if they're wanting to either get themselves 367 00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:23.400 or someone else off the hook by casting the police 368 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:26.039 as suspicion in a different direction, which is what she did. 369 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:28.960 She tried to claim that Martha Tabram spent her last 370 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:33.920 hours in the company of herself and two soldiers, and 371 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:37.839 all these identity parades followed to try and find these men. 372 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:40.680 Of course, they never existed, and that's what I discussed 373 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:42.960 in my book. So then I have the question of okay, 374 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:46.359 who was Pearly Pole lying to protect And that's what 375 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:50.640 led me to the landlords. Now Pearly Paul moves from 376 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:53.880 that house following the murder of Martha Tabram. She moves 377 00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:57.279 to another house, thirty five Dorset Street, and you know, 378 00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:01.319 within it a couple of weeks, Nichels is murdered. Who 379 00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:04.880 resides at thirty five Dorset Street, Paula Nichols being the 380 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:11.599 first of the what's called the canonical Ripper victims. She's 381 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:14.119 not the first White Chapel murder victim, She's the first 382 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:19.319 Ripper victim, and then the next murder victim, Annie Chapman, 383 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:24.799 also residing at thirty five Dorset Street. And so I said, okay, well, 384 00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:27.799 imagine you're Pearly Paul, and now you know what six 385 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:29.640 women or I think we're up to six women either 386 00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:34.880 murdered or nearly murdered in less than a year, and 387 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:37.200 you know them all, you live with them. And then 388 00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:39.519 it goes on from there because she also knew Mary Kelly, 389 00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:43.640 the final Ripper victim, and possibly probably was at least 390 00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:46.759 acquaintance with all of them. Now do I argue that 391 00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:49.000 Pearly Paul was the Ripper? Absolutely not. I do not 392 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:52.200 believe for a moment that she was. I have no 393 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:56.119 evidence that she could do any more than cuttle over bread. 394 00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:00.880 I know she was also unhealthy. Does she possibly know 395 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:02.880 who the Ripper was or have an idea. Yeah, I 396 00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:06.039 think quite possibly so. I think quite possibly so. And 397 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:09.000 that's the stuff I'm exploring in my book. It's not 398 00:23:09.079 --> 00:23:11.119 just another one of those ooh, look, I picked a 399 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:12.559 name out of a hat. I'm going to write a 400 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:16.200 book and make some money. It's a pure research piece, 401 00:23:16.279 --> 00:23:19.920