WEBVTT 1 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:26.920 We're Tomy Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest. Hello, 2 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:28.960 kit is welcome back to another edition of the PSO. 3 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:31.440 I am the team. You're Tel Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm 4 00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:33.320 here with the low and your te Lorenzo as my 5 00:00:33.399 --> 00:00:36.079 lovely husband. Why are you lovely husband? 6 00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:37.759 Wonderful, wonderful? 7 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:38.640 You don't sound it. 8 00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:41.640 I am wonderful, you are wonderful. 9 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:46.119 We have things to discuss this week, and actually, pardon me, 10 00:00:47.479 --> 00:00:49.280 I'm going to start off by getting a little serious 11 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:51.520 here and doing something that we almost never do, which 12 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:53.359 is give a little trigger warning. We are going to 13 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:56.439 be talking about John Cogliano and Ariana Grande, which means 14 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:59.240 we're going to be talking about anti semitism and eating 15 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:05.319 disorders today. And you know what, if you just heard 16 00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:07.599 that and said I'm out, I actually don't blame you 17 00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:09.439 if you don't want to listen to that sort of thing. 18 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:13.040 But we cover celebrities and we cover fashion, and these 19 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:14.719 are two of the biggest stories of the week, and 20 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:17.319 we feel like we need to unpack these things. I 21 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:19.719 want you to understand that when we talk about Ariana 22 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:23.920 later in the podcast, it is about the media circus 23 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:28.760 surrounding her. It is about how her team decided to 24 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:33.560 frame this issue, and it's about fandom. It's not about her. 25 00:01:33.799 --> 00:01:35.719 We're not going to sit here and criticize her looks 26 00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:38.439 or criticize anything about her, because that's not what this 27 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:42.319 is about. We are two people who have been writing 28 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:48.640 about celebrity and fashion and public image for twenty years now. 29 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:51.159 We have been covering her for almost that entire time. 30 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:55.799 So yes, we have a few thoughts, but we're first 31 00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:59.840 we're going to talk about Galliano. Yeah, yes, yes, Oh, 32 00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:02.439 I didn't know what you were asking for me. Yes, 33 00:02:02.519 --> 00:02:06.760 we're talking about John Galliano. It was announceda yeah, it 34 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:11.560 was announced this week that the twenty twenty seven metcala uh, 35 00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:14.759 the exhibit that you know. As to explain once again, 36 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:17.840 the metcala is always based on whatever exhibit is running 37 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:20.639 in the Costume Institute of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. 38 00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:25.000 This year, the or next year, the institute will be 39 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:32.240 putting an exhibit together honoring John Galliano. It just to 40 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:37.360 give you a rundown here. John Galliano, he he worked 41 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:38.840 for a bunch of designers, but at the time he 42 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:41.719 was at Dior when this happened. He worked, I mean 43 00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:44.759 his his fame is when he was with you, when 44 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:47.479 he was with Dior. And I'll start by saying that 45 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:50.560 Colliano was a genius. Colliano was one of the greats 46 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:55.759 of twenty first century fashion. But when he was working 47 00:02:55.800 --> 00:02:59.560 for Dior circa two thousand in the aughts, sometime it 48 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:03.479 because he got drunk. He I believe has struggled with 49 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:08.360 addiction issues throughout his adult life. He was drunk in 50 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:12.639 a cafe and he accosted to women who were I 51 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:14.919 don't know if they mentioned that they were Jewish or 52 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:18.560 he assumed that they were Jewish, but he started ranting 53 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:20.800 about how much he loves Hitler and how you know 54 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:22.800 they're all going to be sent to the camps and 55 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:26.080 their grandmothers were sent to the camps. It was just 56 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:31.039 extremely offensive, like someone who was going out of their 57 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:34.479 way to be offensive. And you know, there was a 58 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:38.039 pretty immediate response from the fashion world and the celebrity 59 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:40.560 were because he was a red carpet master. I mean, 60 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:45.240 people wore his stuff, isn't Yeah, I won't get into that, 61 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:51.520 but so like Nicole, not Nicole, Natalie Portman came out 62 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:53.280 almost to me because she's been a deer or spokes 63 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:56.240 you know, ambassador for for decades now, and she came 64 00:03:56.280 --> 00:03:58.120 out and she's Jewish, and she came out with it, 65 00:03:58.280 --> 00:04:02.000 and largely was considered at the time that her statement 66 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:03.120 was what got him fired. 67 00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:05.960 Am I wrong? Well, I mean she's Jewish, she was 68 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:09.000 representing the house. How can you not have a bigger 69 00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:10.560 star that Actually, don't ignore that. 70 00:04:10.759 --> 00:04:12.759 Yeah, she was in the Star Wars films and everything, 71 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:14.919 so she was a major star at the time, not 72 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:16.879 that she isn't now. And for her to come and 73 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:19.319 she came out and I actually read her statement today 74 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:23.480 and it's interesting because in twenty twenty six, I think 75 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:26.000 she probably would have given a much stronger stor. It 76 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:29.800 was a very like pr voiced statement. And I because 77 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:31.759 she was a younger actress then and maybe she felt 78 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:35.480 she couldn't anyway, she spoke out against it, and she 79 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:37.519 said she could never work with him again, and not 80 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:40.040 long after that with the house, work with the House again? 81 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:42.199 And do you or let him go? The thing is 82 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:44.920 that God? Yeah, but John Goway is a genius. I mean, 83 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:48.680 the man is absolutely a genius when it comes to fashion. 84 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:52.480 Door never looks so stunny. I agree that the old 85 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:55.240 couture collections which they don't even do it and do 86 00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:57.600 them anymore. But the way he did it, it was 87 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:02.480 just surreal. It was like magic walking down the runway. 88 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:07.879 It was the most beautiful work. But you know, that 89 00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:10.519 doesn't mean because you are creative, that you're talented, that 90 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:13.560 you don't have you know, a dark side or you know, 91 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:16.439 you come out and say something like that. It was 92 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:20.920 shocking to me at the time when the whole thing happened, 93 00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:24.000 and you know, it was the beginning of people, you know, 94 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:27.120 filming you and that's why we have a video and 95 00:05:27.319 --> 00:05:31.480 you can't deny that. So yeah, it was it was sad, 96 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:33.839 I felt. I mean, that's that's why you know, that's 97 00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:37.959 it's that fine line. You shouldn't expect too much from 98 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:39.720 the you know, from the people you admire that you 99 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:43.959 never met and that you admire their work, but you 100 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:47.279 know you don't know the person. So I was disappointed. 101 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:52.040 It was shocking, disappointing, And I just because people will 102 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:55.600 tend to take things out of context with conversations like this, 103 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:00.639 I just want to add when you say it's disappointing, 104 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:02.560 I don't want to speak for you, but I think 105 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:05.079 what you're saying is it's disappointing that someone that talented 106 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:06.160 has such an ugly heart. 107 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:06.680 Correct. 108 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:09.079 Yes, what I'm trying to say not that you're disappointed 109 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:10.079 that he got fire, No, no, no. 110 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:13.519 I'm disappointed that someone that I admire so much for 111 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:17.399 their work, talent and everything intelligent man would would would 112 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:21.240 have the thoughts in his head and or ideas or 113 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:25.600 or believes. Yeah so, and it's apolline, It's just a pully. 114 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:26.480 It's just now. 115 00:06:27.319 --> 00:06:31.240 The fashion world has long had an history of racism 116 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:35.720 Orienti Semitism in its ranks. Just before we flipped on 117 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:38.040 the mind side talked about us going to the DNA 118 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:40.920 in London last or two years ago to see the 119 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:45.160 exhibit on Coco Chanel, and it was a stunning exhibit 120 00:06:45.319 --> 00:06:48.000 that took over like an I think half a wing 121 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:53.360 and there was one little banal panel in the corner 122 00:06:53.639 --> 00:06:57.360 that was barely lit that referred to her it's a Nazi, 123 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:01.839 her ties to the Nazis. And I think at the 124 00:07:01.959 --> 00:07:05.839 time we were like, well, they tried, and here's my 125 00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:06.399 take on that. 126 00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:07.959 I do think the. 127 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:11.839 VNA should have gone deeper into that hole, uh and 128 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:15.439 really illuminated it a little bit better. But I was 129 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:17.600 not at the time. It never occurred to me at 130 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:21.800 the time to be offended that a museum would mount 131 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:26.560 an exhibit for Coco Chanel because regardless, again, regardless of 132 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:29.920 her politics or beliefs, she was a genius and a 133 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.439 revolutionary who had a significant impact on the world, and 134 00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:35.360 I think it's worth it to look at the work 135 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:42.199 that she did. I am not opposed to Galliano getting 136 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:46.279 a museum exhibit if it was just separate from this, 137 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:50.279 but I I mean, I kind of think he doesn't 138 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:53.959 deserve one. But whatever, I just don't think they should 139 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:57.639 have an entire gala elevating him like that. And I 140 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:03.560 think it's at a time of intense worldwide rising anti 141 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:08.560 semitism and Islamophobia. That is just I just don't think 142 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:11.839 you should be elevating a man who made such ugly 143 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:12.920 public comments. 144 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:15.879 Right maybe another time, but this is when he's dead, 145 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:17.639 But this is not the right time. 146 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:20.759 He's still working. So the thing is you have now 147 00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:23.439 elevated him, and he's actually going to make more money, 148 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:26.199 he's going to get more commissions, he's gonna you know, 149 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:29.160 he's just you're making his career better. 150 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:31.040 Whereas with the VNA, I. 151 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:33.879 Mean, Chanelle was dead for fifty years, you couldn't There 152 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.080 was no benefit to her or to the brand. So 153 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:39.159 it never occurred to me at the time to be 154 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:42.639 offended by that by the existence of that. 155 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:44.840 Exhibit. 156 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:48.000 But I struggle with this, and I really think it 157 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:50.200 makes Annah Winter look like a piece of shit. I 158 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:53.240 know she got him in stated at Oscar de la 159 00:08:53.320 --> 00:08:56.519 Rena like years and years, like she's always been trying 160 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:58.840 to get him back. And what's that quote that you said, 161 00:08:58.919 --> 00:08:59.759 so she had She is a. 162 00:08:59.799 --> 00:09:04.000 Huge She loves him and defended him in a way 163 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:07.320 or didn't say anything at the time because you know, 164 00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:11.759 they're friends and she loves him. And she said because 165 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:14.320 they made the announcement that the met Galib was going 166 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:16.720 to be, you know, pe homage to him, she came 167 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:18.960 out and said, you know, his career shouldn't be defined 168 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:23.320 by a moment something that happened once, you know, an 169 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:27.759 entire career. And then she also said that the exhibit 170 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:30.600 is not going to shy away from any darkness in 171 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:31.200 his life. 172 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:34.200 Well, okay, as to the latter point, I think that's bullshit. 173 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:36.639 I think it probably will gloss it over tremendous. 174 00:09:36.919 --> 00:09:38.559 What is going to do play the video at the end. 175 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:41.720 As to the former point, I agree that a person's 176 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:45.320 career should not be defined by a moment, especially especially 177 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:49.320 if that moment is tied to their substance abuse issues. 178 00:09:49.519 --> 00:09:54.279 Right however, and by that I mean we have in 179 00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:57.720 We haven't had much opportunity to do this, but we 180 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.480 have had opportunity to feature people on the side wearing 181 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:03.639 Galliano and it. I don't think we ever really wrestled 182 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:06.639 with it all that much. Similarly, I mean, every celebrity 183 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:09.480 wants to wear adult chiankabana and those two racist motherfuckers. 184 00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:10.480 It doesn't even bother. 185 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:14.279 You know. They forget and forgive very quickly they do, 186 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:16.240 so that's the industry. 187 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:20.399 I don't have a problem with Galliano having a career 188 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:22.679 because he is so talented and people still want to 189 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:26.080 wear his stuff. I never I never thought as bad 190 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:29.200 as that diatribe was. I never thought that he should 191 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:32.600 never work again because of it. I do very firmly 192 00:10:32.679 --> 00:10:35.440 think we should not be elevating him above other designers 193 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:38.120 and celebrating him that much. Let him have that career, 194 00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:41.600 Let the work speak for itself. Do not throw a 195 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:45.360 fucking party. The biggest fashion party in the world is 196 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:47.320 now going to be thrown in his honor. 197 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:49.480 Yeah, the problem with the MET gala is that you're 198 00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:52.039 gonna put that person on the pedestal se so hi, 199 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:55.519 and you're gonna, you know, praise that person. Everyone's gonna 200 00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:58.039 talk about it about him on the red carpet. It's 201 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.279 going to praise him in his work. And so is 202 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:03.559 anyone going to ask about the video or about what 203 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:04.039 he said? 204 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:07.039 No, I mean, I don't know about that ceremony, not 205 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:09.519 to I don't want to dabble in stereotypes here, but 206 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:13.480 I think given New York City, the likelihood that the 207 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:17.679 biggest donors to the MET are significantly Joe, there is 208 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:20.440 a significant Jewish component to that, And I wonder how 209 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:22.360 many of them are going to go to this or 210 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:23.720 donate to this knowing it. 211 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:24.480 I don't know. 212 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:27.559 I would love to see a blowback, but I don't know. 213 00:11:27.799 --> 00:11:30.000 They're already talking about it, and maybe when you get 214 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.320 closer to the actual megala there'll be more discussion about it. 215 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:38.440 We'll see, But I feel that it's decided, I mean, 216 00:11:38.519 --> 00:11:41.879 and when tour decided, and that's not gonna change. Yeah, 217 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:45.639 and she doesn't care. The fashion industry doesn't care about 218 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:49.559 a lot of things. They care about pretty things, that's 219 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:50.120 all they care. 220 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:53.559 I think we should. I think people should use this 221 00:11:53.759 --> 00:11:56.240 moment to really hammer home the point that of what 222 00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:58.080 he said and why it's wrong. 223 00:11:58.399 --> 00:11:58.519 Right. 224 00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:01.120 I think glossing over it is a very very bad idea. 225 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.360 I agree. And to answer the. 226 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:06.360 Question that we will likely be asked, yeah, we're going 227 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:08.000 to cover the MET column. We're not going to not 228 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:10.159 cover the MET colla. But when we cover it, we're 229 00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:12.039 going to talk about how problematic this is. 230 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:15.759 The thing is that, given what's going on in the 231 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:19.840 world for the past I don't know, six years or more, Uh, 232 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:23.279 if we don't cover something because of something, we won't 233 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:27.519 have a sight anymore. That's true. I mean everyone is 234 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:31.480 out there doing something horrific or saying something horrific, and 235 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:34.240 you know, yeah, that's that's any. 236 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:36.720 Our job is to cover the red carpet, to cover fashion. 237 00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:39.159 So yeah, we're going to cover the premier red carpet 238 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:41.399 event of the year in the United States. 239 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:43.840 And our cover our job, to a certain extent is 240 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:45.639 to talk about it. That's why we're talking about it. 241 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:48.440 And when the coverage comes around, we will continue to 242 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:51.559 talk about it. Right, Exactly, A lot of those people 243 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:54.799 are likely to show up in Gliano originals. They are 244 00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:58.080 or homages to Kalliano, and we need to talk about, 245 00:12:58.240 --> 00:12:59.399 you know, the problem with that. 246 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:01.600 That's it. 247 00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:05.440 I don't really have anything else to say except I'm 248 00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:08.720 disappointed in her, Not that I ever had. I never 249 00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:11.639 thought she was my mor guide or anything like that. 250 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:14.039 But you're at the end of your career and you're 251 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:17.559 doing this, You're elevating this. I know you love him, 252 00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:21.080 I know he's talented, but this is a stain. It's 253 00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:23.480 a stain on your career. It's a stain on the 254 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:28.320 met right, I agree. I mean, Manhattan has one of 255 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:32.000 the largest Jewish populations in the world. I'm pretty sure 256 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:36.360 it has the largest in the United States. To take 257 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:40.240 one of your premier cultural institutions and turn it entirely 258 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:44.600 over to celebrating one of the world's most famous anti Semites, 259 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:47.720 what are you thinking? And I'm really hoping there's a 260 00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:50.000 bigger blow. I mean, there was some blowback this week, 261 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:52.519 but to my shock, there has been very little now. 262 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:54.960 Because it was something that happened a long time ago, 263 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:58.320 and he already talked about it. I think there was 264 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:00.840 a documentary where he mentioned it talks about it. You know, 265 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:01.799 he has apologized. 266 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:04.279 Don't get me wrong, Sorry, no, no, yes, go ahead, 267 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:05.919 he apologized to you. I do want to put that 268 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:09.120 out there. Like he has been on a rehabilitative tour. 269 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:12.279 It's not like he has spent twenty years making these comments. 270 00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:15.080 It was an outburst. It was an ugly one. I 271 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:18.240 think it clearly showed the darkest parts of himself, right, 272 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:22.200 But I do want to you know, in all of this, 273 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:24.840 I should note that he was he has tried to 274 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:26.759 atone for this in some ways. 275 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:30.639 Right. The problem with those comments is that, fine, it 276 00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:34.039 was one comment, but there are certain things. 277 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:38.559 That I don't like comment never saying anything remotely close 278 00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:41.360 to that. And at the point when white people like 279 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:44.000 us say, well, you know, as if it's something that 280 00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:46.200 you know, at the drop of a hat, any of 281 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:47.919 us would have said that, I want to make it clear. 282 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:50.440 I have never said anything like that, and I don't 283 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:51.000 excuse it. 284 00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:54.440 I you have to Yeah, if you said it, it's 285 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:57.120 because it's it was, it's somewhere inside you. It was 286 00:14:57.240 --> 00:15:01.600 stored somewhere you breathe. That's exactly right, all right. 287 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.600 I think we'll stop there and take a break and 288 00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:08.200 then we're gonna come back and discuss another lighthearted topic. 289 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:09.879 We'll be back to talk. 290 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:13.919 About Ariana Grande. We're back, and now we're going to 291 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:17.960 tackle something that's probably going to be difficult for some 292 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:20.759 people to hear. And in some ways it's we're gonna 293 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:22.679 tip we're not gonna tiptoe through this, but we're being 294 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:24.919 very careful about how we talk about it. And let 295 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:29.000 me explain why we're talking about Ariana Grande, who her 296 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:32.759 her people, and she herself released a statement this week 297 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:35.919 that when her current Eternal Sunshine tour ends, and I 298 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:39.080 think there's only a couple of dates left, she's going 299 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:41.759 to be pulling back from public life. She pulled out 300 00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:45.039 of doing Sunday in the Park with George with Jonathan 301 00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:47.000 Bailey next year on Broadway. 302 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.679 And it was in UK, isn't it. Oh maybe you're right, 303 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:52.639 Maybe it was. We're probably right. 304 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:58.679 So and this comes after months and actually literally years 305 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:05.279 of commentary about her appearance in fandom and online and 306 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:11.360 on social media. The general it is generally understood, although 307 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:14.559 Ariana herself has not made this sort of statement, and 308 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:16.960 she may not be prepared to make this sort of statement, 309 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:19.919 but it is generally understood that she is suffering from 310 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:25.240 an eating disorder, and people are making this leap or 311 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:28.480 assumption about her because of the physical evidence. And I'm 312 00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:31.000 not gonna you know, I'm very I'm trying to be 313 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:35.679 very careful here because it's very possible that Ariana it 314 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:38.360 has some other form of illness that is causing her 315 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:41.519 to look like this. But there has been a serious, 316 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:47.759 serious shrinking of Ariana since Wicked one, since the first 317 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:48.440 Wicked film. 318 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:51.840 I think she's going through a lot, you know, I 319 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:56.519 think I've been watching her and I think to Revoo 320 00:16:56.600 --> 00:16:59.039 talk about Wiked and stuff. I think they were. I 321 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.919 think Wicked was age of disappointment for them. She also 322 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:02.440 went to a. 323 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:07.279 Divorce, all kinds of relationship drama. There's there's a lot 324 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:10.400 happened to her campaign, loss of campaign. 325 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:13.200 And then they didn't do well. It was big disappointment 326 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:16.079 for them, and the scrutiny around the two of them, 327 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:18.759 their friendship. The people were mocking the two of them 328 00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:21.279 for being too close, you know, touching each other and 329 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:24.079 that kind of stuff, doing interviews. That was There's a 330 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:27.039 lot going on, yeah, in terms of like you know, 331 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:30.880 people talking about her and and you know, it's been, 332 00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:35.599 but then you know, it feels like it's getting worse 333 00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:38.960 in terms of, you know, her state of mind or 334 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:40.119 whatever it could be. 335 00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:42.880 I don't know physical appearances a arming. 336 00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:45.200 Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna be shot. I'm not 337 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:48.279 gonna shot away from saying that I watched Pedal the 338 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:49.440 video and I was shocked. 339 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:50.720 I had a hard time sitting throw. 340 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:53.000 I had a hard time not focusing on on on 341 00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:55.920 her appearance, and you know that that's all I'll say. 342 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:59.119 I'm not gonna judge why or when and how, because 343 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.440 that's not my job here or you know, I don't 344 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:03.599 know her. I don't know what she's going through. But 345 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:08.319 visually what I see was shocking. What I saw was shocking. 346 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:12.559 So that's why people were talking. And then you know, 347 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:17.359 you have someone like Jamilla and Jamil right who talks about, 348 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:20.799 you know, the whole industry. And where did she talk 349 00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:24.000 about this? I think she posted on Instagram, one of 350 00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:27.480 her social media accounts. She made a put a long 351 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:31.160 statement about it, and she was careful because she tends 352 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:33.039 to be a little too loud about the subject. You know, 353 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:35.599 I'm not defending her or criticizing her, but she's very 354 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:39.279 vocal about the whole you know, celebrities getting too thin, 355 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:43.359 So that's her. She's been talking about that for a 356 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:45.839 long time now. So she put a statement and she 357 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:47.920 was kind of careful about it. She would saying, you know, 358 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:51.400 it breaks my heart. I don't know what to do here, 359 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:54.519 but you know, I don't want to, you know, add 360 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:57.400 to the conversation out there, you know, being mean to her. 361 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:00.519 But at the same time, I can't ignore this because 362 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.039 there are a lot of young girls out there, you know, 363 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:07.720 who adore her, who admire her, who are fans, and 364 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.200 they see that, and you know, and if it's not 365 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:14.079 talked about, that's her frame. If it's not talk about, 366 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:17.799 then it becomes something normal, okay for these fans out. 367 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:20.160 There, for these you mentioned our job, and I want 368 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:23.359 to I want to slip in from that perspective. 369 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:23.720 And I. 370 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:27.160 You know, I joked about this before we flipped on 371 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:28.839 the mics. I was like, I hope people don't think 372 00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:30.880 we're going to make this all about ourselves. But at 373 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:32.440 the same token, I don't think you want us to 374 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:35.319 make it all about Ariana because then it becomes very judgmental. 375 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:36.559 So here's what. 376 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:42.079 And this is partially inspired you know we are. Our 377 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:44.920 twenty year anniversary was last month. We wrote a big 378 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.240 post and there's just been a lot of reminiscing and 379 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:49.960 talking and thinking about how things have changed over the years, 380 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:54.160 or or choices that we've made over the years. Very 381 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:58.559 early in our Red Carpet blogging, we realized, after some 382 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:01.720 mistakes I will cop to these mistakes, making flip and 383 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:04.960 comments or whatever, we realize that we cannot be discussing 384 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:08.359 women's bodies at all on our site, and we can't 385 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:10.000 allow other people to do it as well. 386 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:13.279 And let me just say one thing. It wasn't because 387 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:15.519 we were criticized for it. We were crease starts for it, 388 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:20.359 but we decided ourselves that that's not us, that's not right, 389 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:22.759 and that's why we stopped. I don't want people to 390 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:24.920 think that we don't do it anymore because of the 391 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:27.279 criticism now, because we realize. 392 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:29.119 It's because we under you know, we understood the criticism. 393 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:34.759 But also, uh, I want to reiterate a point because 394 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:40.640 this has come up repeatedly with stars like Ariana, because 395 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:43.240 when you say, oh, no, no body snarking on our site, 396 00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:45.960 I think the first thing people jump to is, you know, 397 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:49.559 don't call someone fat, don't make fun of their cellullyte 398 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:50.319 that sort of thing. 399 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:51.559 But in my. 400 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:57.440 Experience, body snarking goes in the opposite direction. It's always uh, 401 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:04.799