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Speaker 1: Coming to you from Studio A here at proven Winter's

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Color Choice Shrubs. It's time for the Gardening Simplified podcast,

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YouTube and radio show with Stacey Hervella, me, Rick Weist,

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and our engineer and producer Adrianna Robinson. Well, Stacy, we

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get to talk today about a subject that's near and

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dear to my heart. Spring ephemerals merge, bloom and produce

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seeds during a narrow window between the snow melt and

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when the trees leaf out and then die back. By

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early to midsummer they're gone. They just kind of hang

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out the rest of the year, out of sight, and

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there are so many wonderful We can loosely term them wildflowers,

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but we're gonna call them spring ephemerals. Here today, gone tomorrow.

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But it's something I look forward to every year.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, it is one of the most amazing experiences I

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think that people can have. It's like you go into

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the woods one day and everything is brown, and then

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you go in the next and everything is green, and

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it's just one of those blink and you'll miss it

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kind of moments, and it can be so spectacular, and

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I think it can be so inspiring for gardeners as well.

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It's not just about, you know, going out now. For me,

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it is actually going out and see how many species

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I can see, because I do love that. But it's

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also just about the inspiration and the magic of spring.

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I just love it.

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Speaker 1: Perfect description magic.

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Speaker 2: It is magic.

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Speaker 1: And I also like the way you say everything's brown

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and then they emerge because you have oak leaves and

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beech tree leaves that are on the forest floor. All

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of a sudden things like trout lilies and trilliums appear

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and it lifts your spirits. And this is a real

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personal thing for me. Let me share something personally with you,

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and that is number one. You know me, I do

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not like winter. I know people have winter festivals, they

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love skiing, they make snowmen, they have hot chocolate, they

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love the season. Great, more power to you. I don't

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like it. I'm always thankful when the month of April

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comes along. Another personal point, Stacey is there was a

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point in my life where I went through a real

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rough patch. And when we go through a rough patch,

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we do things to try and cope with that period

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of time. For me, it was running, and so after

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work every night I would run ten miles, five miles out,

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five miles back on the trail. This trail was lined

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with marsh marigolds, trilliums, trout lilies, all kinds of these

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spring ephemerals. And I'll never forget it. As a matter

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of fact, we have a picture to share on our

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YouTube video. It just was, like you said, magical for me.

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It lifted my spirits.

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Speaker 2: It really does. It's so inspiring. And I think you

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know a lot of people here in Michigan. I know

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we have listeners from all over the country and in

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Canada and actually around the world. But you know, here

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in Southeaster, in Michigan in general, you're gonna see spring

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of them roles. If you drive on the highway, whether

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you like it or not, you will see them. You know,

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you're driving even on ninety six around here, and you

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just see these massive patches of trilliums. But that's not enough.

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You really do need to get in there. There's so

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much diversity and there's so many interesting things to see.

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And you know, if you look, if you drive and

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you see the trilliums growing by the side of the highway,

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and you think, oh, that's nice. The trilliums are in bloom.

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You really owe it to yourself to get out there.

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And it doesn't take a lot. You can go to

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almost any park around here and see an amazing display

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and it's I mean, if you haven't done this before,

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I would say mark your calendars in the coming weeks

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to just make sure you get out to a park

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and see this, because I don't know. It's just I

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don't know. It's very meaningful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it is. It's very meaningful, and it's very very

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meaningful for me. So I share that with you. And

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you're right. They see a lot of us think about trilliums,

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and that, of course is an amazing plant. I was

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reading from the US Forest Service. They were saying there

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are forty three species of trillium known worldwide, with a

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startling thirty eight represented in North America as natives.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty that I had no idea was that. That's

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absolutely incredible. And the rest this is actually very interesting

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and you see this especially when it comes to our

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spring ephemerals. I'm not going to go deep into this,

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so don't panic, but there's a phenomenon called the Eastern

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Asian Eastern North America floristic disjunction. Where you get into this.

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Speaker 1: It's like deja vu. It's incredible. Yes, I have read

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about it. Oh Arnold Arboretum, Yeah, does a lot.

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Speaker 2: They have an excellent article on that. So basically what

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it is is that the eastern half of North America

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and Eastern Asia share a very similar number of plant

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species and genera because at one point they were connected.

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And so the other trillium species i'm guessing are all

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Asian trilliums, and there are just some spectacular Asian trilliums.

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Of course they're not our native trilliums, but they're still special.

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And you'll see that with a lot of spring ephemerals,

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the erythronium or trout lily as well, just to name

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a few. And it's just such an interesting thing to see.

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And I can't believe we are that many trilliums. Yeah,

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so many in Michigan.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, And I have some pictures to share of

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trout lily also a favorite of mine, as I would

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run the trail. And as far as the trilliums are concerned, again,

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the diversity is amazing and correct me if I'm wrong.

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But is it the pedestal? Is it a pedestal that

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the flower sits on. Is that the pronunciation, okay, so

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a pedesol. And then there are others that seem to

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just sit right on.

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Speaker 2: Top of the bracts, beestile trilliums. So yeah, sometimes you

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see the ones that are nodding, the Trillium grand fluorum,

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which is by far the most widespread one around here

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in southwestern Michigan. But the cecil ones, Yeah, they nestle

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right down into the foliage with no extra stem. Yeah,

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those are really cool. If you are lucky enough to

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live in the southeast, or maybe you're taking on the

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Appalachian Trail or you're going on vacation, you will see

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the most incredible diversity of trilliums down through the Blue

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Ridge Mountains and Smokies.

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Speaker 1: I mean absolutely really.

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Speaker 2: You mean know another interesting thing about trilliums, So they

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do grow by seed. Obviously they spread by you know,

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their their roots as well, but their seeds, their seed

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pods have these what's known as an eliosome on that

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and it's a little dot of nutritious oil and it

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is like ants just go crazy for it.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And they I mean like it's not just like, oh,

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here's a nice little liasm. Guess I'll eat it. It's

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like they go bananas. And that is how trillium is.

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That is how trillium spread it. Trillium seed is dispersed.

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Is these ants going after that alion and then carrying

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it to who knows where, and that is why trilliums

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are able to spread as widely as they do.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that is fantastic. Yeah. And if you're keeping score

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at home and you enjoy the trilliums of spring, as

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Stacey mentioned, then so it's pedestal and cecil, yes, and

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the cecil are seated right on those bracts or that foliage. Yeah,

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pretty cool. Trout lilies, I love them, the solitary nodding

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yellow flower. Their colony forming and they the foliage looks

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like trout, a brown trumk. Yeah, I guess that's where

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it gets and its name.

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Speaker 2: They look so pretty with the trilliums and they're so

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often together, and that to me is where you know,

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we were talking about mother nature and being inspired. I mean,

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that is a combination that I just find so inspiring.

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And it's the kind of thing that if you are

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a gardener and you're out in the woods looking at

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these things, you know, take a moment's not just go

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oh that's pretty or oh that's interesting, but to really

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think about what is it? Is it the colors, is

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it the shape of the leaves? Is it the gestures

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of those two plants together? And think about what that

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means for you? Combining plants agree very much.

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Speaker 1: So, so I have a question for you based on that, Stacey,

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And that is, as far as ephemerals are concerned, I

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also consider non native minor bulbs like galanthus to be

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a spring ephemeral based on definition. Would you agree with

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that or yeah?

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Speaker 2: I think that's a fair you know, but it's yeah.

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I think usually when most people say spring epemerals, they

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are referring to our native wildflowers, but that they behave

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the same way, you know, and most of our spring

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ephemerals that are native to North America are similar. They

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have some sort of bulb like storage organ underground, and

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that's what they need because they have such a short

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life cycle that they really need to take all the

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energy that they're able to manufacture before the trees come

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out making hay well the sun shines, and they need

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to store that for another whole year before they come out. Again.

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So they all have that kind of bulb like nature.

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So yeah, I think that's a fair connection.

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Speaker 1: So we'll talk about them in segment four and continue

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our talk on ephemerals before we move to Plants on Trial.

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I wrote an ephemeral lyric just.

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Speaker 2: For use to ooh, I'm excited.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, here we go. We await with much anticipation. They

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arrive with great adulation, a few moments on stage. Our

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needs to a sage, then exit with short duration. Ephemerals

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are plants that are temporary. Here's an inside joke in

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my commentary. They put on a show, they come and go,

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not a thorn in your side like Barbary. I wrote that.

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Speaker 2: I like it. I appreciate that. Thank you, Yes, because

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you know, as I was saying in our plants are

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show on plants that we don't like. I was saying,

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one of the reasons I dislike Barbary so much is

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because when I do go to the woods to see

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the spring ephemerals and I see a Barbary, Yeah, that

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makes me real mad.

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Speaker 1: That's why I wrote it just for you. Plants on

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Trial is coming up next, and in segment four we'll

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get in to more of these ephemeral plants. List them

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out for you and why we love them. As a

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matter of fact, if we were to apply minor bulbs,

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I know a favorite of yours, Stacey and mine are

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the reticulated or Iris reticulata. Indeed, yeah, so an early

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spring bloomer plants on trial is next here on the

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Gardening Simplified Show.

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Speaker 2: Beautify your home and community with proven Winner's Color Choice Shrubs.

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With over three hundred and twenty five unique varieties to

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choose from, there's a flowering shrubber evergreen for every taste

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your local garden center or learn more at proven Winner's

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Color Choice dot com. Greetings gardening friends, and welcome back

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to the Gardening Simplified Show, where the order of the

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day is our beloved spring ephemerals. And if you don't

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know what we're talking about, in a nutshell, it is

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the spring wildflowers that pop up in forests all around

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Michigan and in fact around most of the eastern half

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of the entire country. And again, if you've only ever

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seen these driving by, seen a beautiful patche trolleum going

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by it seventy miles an hour. You really owe it

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to yourself to get out into a park. You don't

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need to take a long hike, pack a lunch or

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anything like that. Just find a local park with a

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good wooded area and you will almost certainly see them.

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But I did want to mention since it's Plants on Trial,

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and Plants on Trial is really all about introducing you

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to one of the three hundred and twenty plus proven

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Winter's color choice shrubs and you decide if you're going

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to add it to your garden. Well, when it comes

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to spring ephemerals, I do want to say, especially early

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in the show, that when it comes to adding them

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to your garden, please, please, please be sure you are

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getting them from a reputable source. There is a lot

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of poaching that goes on among spring wildflowers that are

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dug up. Not so much in Michigan, but definitely there's

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a huge trade from the Smoky Mountains and the Blue

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Ridge Mountains where they grow really, really abundantly. So these

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are the kind of plants and I encourage you to

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add them to your garden. You know, if you have

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the right conditions, shade, reasonably moist soil, you'll do great

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with them, but do make sure that you're getting them

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from a reputable source that hasn't dug them up from

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the wild without permission. You know, usually they do need

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to be seed grown. They tend to be expensive because

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a trillium takes about seven to ten years to flower

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from a seed, and so usually if someone is real,

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you know, responsibly propagating these plants, it does take quite

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a while, so they cost a little bit more, and

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if they're cheap, you should probably be very suspicious about that.

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So there's some tissue culture out there which does help

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to defray costs a bit, but please be sure if

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you want to add these to your garden, you're sticking

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mostly with native plant nurseries that are sourcing these in

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a responsible manner. So I want to get that out there.

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I didn't believe it at first, and I was like, yeah, whatever,

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but every year you see reports of this and people

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being arrested, and so there's a huge trade for it,

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and we don't want to be a part of supporting that.

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Speaker 1: A lot of talk about ramps also.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, especially ramps. Yeah, So anyway, let's get today's

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plan on trial, which, as we were saying on the break,

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is one of Rick's favorites.

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Speaker 1: If you go to Gardening Simplified, honor Or dot com

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look at our top ten lists favorite shrubs, you'll see

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it there on my list, Stacey, So.

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Speaker 2: It was already there before I picked it as today's

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plant on Trial. So you know, in this theme of

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spring ephemerals, you know in the woods, it's they're understory plants,

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so they grow sort of through that leaf litter as

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we were talking about. And we do have some native

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shrubs here in Michigan, but mostly it's kind of like

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you have the understory and then you have the trees. Well,

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if you go down to the southeast, you will find

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many more sort of shrubs in the understory, and they

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make an outstanding companion to a spring ephemeral planting, and

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especially today's plant on Trial, which is legend of the

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small father Gilla. So Fathergilla is also as bottle brush

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or witch alder, and it is such a great choice

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for matching a spring epemerals because it blooms at pretty

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much the same time. Has these lovely white bottle brush

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as you might have guessed by that common name flowers fragrant.

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They come out in early spring and the great thing

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about the specific variety that we're talking about today, Legend

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of the Small father gilla, is that it is well small,

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so it's blooming and growing sort of in with the

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spring ephemerals rather than towering above them. So it's a

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companion sort of rather than a guardian. Does that make sense?

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Speaker 1: It makes perfect sense. And Stacey here in Michigan, unfortunately

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we often get april snow. Ah, yes we do, and

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so I have pictures to share of snow coating those

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flowers when early spring. But I love that because you're right,

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blooms about the same time as the other.

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Speaker 2: Right, And it's nice that this one so regular conventional

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father gilla are going to reach anywhere between four and

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six feet tall and wide, which is still a very

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useful size for most residential landscaping. But it's really nice

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to have a variety like Legend of the Small which

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reaches just two to two and a half feet tall,

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so that you have some different options for how to

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use it in your garden and again kind of letting

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it accompany this spring ephemerals that are in your garden. Now,

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this isn't quite native to Michigan. This is really going

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to be more of a southeastern United States again Blue

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Ridge Mountains, Smoky Mountains. That is sort of the epicenter

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for all of this, and that is actually where legend

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of the small was developed at the North Carolina State

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University Research Center in Asheville by doctor Tom Rainey, who

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has developed a huge diversity of plants in the proven

299
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Winner's Color Choice brand, including one of my favorites, El

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Nino Chetalpa. He's been all over the place developing a

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lot of interesting natives as well as interesting exotics like that.

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But this comes from him, and his breeding goal really

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was to have this smaller size so more of us

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can use it in new ways in our gardens, which

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makes sense.

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Speaker 1: It's great in a perennial guard.

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Speaker 2: It is great in a perennial garden, especially this one.

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So a couple things about growing this wonderful plant. Rick

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does have it in his garden. I do not, and

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the reason for that is because it needs moist soil

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and I don't water, and I have very very dry

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sandy soil. I have tried to grow it. I'm very

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sorry to that father gilla that I attempted to grow.

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It did not last long, But like my mom over

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00:16:31,759 --> 00:16:33,639
on the east side of the state in Detroit grows

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00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:36,600
it beautifully where that soil is more clay like, so

317
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it needs some moisture. This is not going to be

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one of those drought tolerant plants that we tell you about.

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You can kind of just you know, grow it, but

320
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it is a low maintenance plant because if you are

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growing it in the areas in the kind of environment

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where it will thrive because it is so small, doesn't

323
00:16:51,559 --> 00:16:55,399
need pruning, doesn't really need much of anything. And that

324
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,759
actually reminds me before I forget of another reason why

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it makes such a great companion to spring ephemerals, because

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not only does it have these wonderful, fragrant flowers in

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early spring, it has amazing fall color.

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Speaker 1: That's what I was going to say. As a matter

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00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,680
of fact, arguably I grow the plant for the fall color,

330
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not the bottle brush blooms in spring, even though the

331
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blooms are so unique and they're early and they're fabulous

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and I love them. The plant saves the best.

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Speaker 2: For last, It definitely does, and all of those spring

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00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,599
epemerals are long gone by that point. So if you

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00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,839
have a garden bed where you have these plants that disappear.

336
00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,039
This makes such a great choice because you'll get that

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00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,359
prolonged season of interest. And then, of course because it's

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00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,200
a shrub, it's got those nice persistent branches over winter.

339
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But let's get back to growing it. So moist, acidic

340
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,200
soil is very important. You're going to want to mulchhit

341
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,160
doesn't really need any pruning or other maintenance, and it's

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00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,960
quite deer resistant. Actually, even when I did attempt to

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grow it, the deer never did actually eat it.

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Speaker 1: Well, the foliage tends to be kind of rough, firy

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00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,519
type of foliage, and again, any plant that has that

346
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,240
toem and toast type of foliage that's kind of hairy. Yeah,

347
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the deer tend to pick something else in the buffet.

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Speaker 2: And it gets no other pests or diseases, no leaf spots,

349
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,640
no nothing like that. So it is actually an extremely

350
00:18:16,839 --> 00:18:21,039
easy plant to grow and to use. And you know, again,

351
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,319
even though it's not native to Michigan, I think it's

352
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very much at home here with native ephemerals like this

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and Stacey.

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Speaker 1: For people who are listening to the show on radio

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or if you're listening to the podcast version, you're asking

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to us to say, again, what is that plant, And

357
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how do we spell that plant? Because I say father Gia,

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you say father Gilla.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna, I was gonna mention that you're not

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the only person I have heard say father Gia. Yeah,

361
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but it is father Gilla. So f O T H

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E R g I L l A. And the reason

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that it is father Gilla and not father Gia is

364
00:18:58,799 --> 00:19:03,079
because it is named after one doctor, Fathergil from England.

365
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,680
We go so now, so usually what I try to

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do what I'm pronouncing a plant is to take that

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00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,359
root word and use that in the pronunciation. So it's

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father Gill, named after doctor Fathergill, with a at the end

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to make it you know, wow, it.

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Speaker 1: All makes sense to me. That's why I asked the question.

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Then I brought it up.

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Speaker 2: But you know, speaking of spring flowering shrubs, I am

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breaking my own rule because, as we've said on the

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show before, for Scythia is named after one doctor forsythe

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But if I go around telling everybody that I love

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there for Scythia, They're just gonna think I'm some kind

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of maniac. So it is important to be understood. And

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as long as you're walking out of the store with

379
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a plant that you want. It's all good, and you

380
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,039
can always go for bottlebrush because most people will probably

381
00:19:44,079 --> 00:19:47,640
know or witch alder, which is it gets that name

382
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,839
not because it's witchy or used in any kind of

383
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:54,200
magical ceremonies, but because it is from the ancient or

384
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,000
the Old English word wyh which means bent or pliable.

385
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,720
And it's also to which hazel, so it might also

386
00:20:01,759 --> 00:20:03,640
be part of that. So it's in the Hammi melodecy

387
00:20:03,759 --> 00:20:04,680
or which hazel family?

388
00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:08,319
Speaker 1: I love which hazel and which hazel has very similar

389
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,279
fall color to a I'm going to say, father.

390
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:17,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, fall habits are hard to break. And

391
00:20:17,279 --> 00:20:19,880
I did want to talk about sun. So it does

392
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,400
grow in sun to part shade. It will grow in

393
00:20:22,519 --> 00:20:25,000
deeper shade, but you're going to see the flowering is

394
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,519
very diminished, as is the fall color. So if you can,

395
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,000
especially if you live in a hotter climate, part shade

396
00:20:31,039 --> 00:20:33,160
is going to be kind of your sweet spot here

397
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,119
in the north, you could easily grow it in full

398
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,079
sun as long as it has sufficient water because again,

399
00:20:38,079 --> 00:20:40,759
this is not one of those very drought tolerant plants.

400
00:20:42,039 --> 00:20:45,359
One last word I have to say, if you're thinking, hey,

401
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,480
this plant sounds great and I definitely want to add

402
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,720
it to my garden. It is slow growing and it's small,

403
00:20:50,759 --> 00:20:53,079
and those two things combine to make it a lot

404
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,200
slower to produce than a lot of other plants like

405
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,799
hydrangeas and that kind of stuff that you'll see on

406
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,400
the market. So this plant has been out for a

407
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,319
little while. We are always trying to increase numbers on

408
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,599
it to meet the demand because so many people like

409
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,160
Rick do love this plant, but it is in fairly

410
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,599
short supply. So if you're interested in it, don't sleep

411
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,160
on it. Make sure that you pick it up and

412
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,880
add it to your garden because it will probably go

413
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,920
because there's not quite enough to go around, but we

414
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,039
are working on it and.

415
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,279
Speaker 1: To make sure to drive the point home, Stacey, So

416
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,359
you are talking about Legend of the Small Yes, there

417
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,519
is also a Legend of the Fall.

418
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 2: Right, which was selected for superior fall color, even better

419
00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:34,200
than the standard from Father Gilla, And that one is

420
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,279
kind of a more standard size, so more like the

421
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,000
three to five or four to six foot range, So

422
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,000
two great choices. Legend of the Fall is much easier

423
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,000
to find, but if you do want this smaller size

424
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,279
in Legend of the small you might have to look

425
00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:49,839
for it just for a couple more years so you

426
00:21:49,839 --> 00:21:51,440
can get a little bit more out there on the

427
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,640
market for you. If you'd like to add it to

428
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,839
your garden, please visit proven Winter's Color Choice dot Com

429
00:21:56,839 --> 00:21:58,640
to find a retailer. We're going to take a little

430
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,599
break when we come meck, we're opening up the so

431
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:10,920
stay tuned at Proven Winner's Color Choice Shrubs. We know

432
00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:14,039
that a better landscape starts with a better shrub. Our

433
00:22:14,039 --> 00:22:17,079
team of experts tests and evaluates all of our flowering

434
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,160
shrubs and evergreens for eight to ten years to ensure

435
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,240
they outperform what's already on the market. For easycare, reliable,

436
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,119
beautiful shrubs to accentuate your home and express your personal style,

437
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,960
look for Proven Winner's Shrubs in the distinctive white container

438
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,599
at your local garden center, or learn more at proven

439
00:22:33,599 --> 00:22:39,279
Winner's Color Choice dot com. Greetings, gardening friends, and welcome

440
00:22:39,319 --> 00:22:41,880
back to the Gardening Simplified Show, where it is our

441
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,519
pleasure to help you with your gardening questions, quandaries and conundrums.

442
00:22:46,519 --> 00:22:48,720
And boy, I tell you, our inbox is filling in fast.

443
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,200
We only have time for a few questions every week,

444
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,960
But we don't want to leave you hanging. So if

445
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,319
you find yourself out there struggling with something you don't

446
00:22:56,319 --> 00:22:58,559
know what to do, you can always reach out to

447
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,279
proven winner's color choice. Do we have a contact form there?

448
00:23:02,319 --> 00:23:03,960
You can even attach a photo and that will get

449
00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:06,799
you an answer in your inbox a lot sooner and

450
00:23:06,799 --> 00:23:08,440
you don't have to wonder if we've actually you know,

451
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:09,960
are going to answer it or anything like that. So

452
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,279
we want to offer that service to you. Can't answer

453
00:23:12,279 --> 00:23:15,200
everything on air, or we wouldn't talk about anything else.

454
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,119
We'd just be answering gardening questions all the time. So

455
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,039
but we do care about your success and want you

456
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,440
to make sure that you have a good and stress

457
00:23:24,559 --> 00:23:26,960
free spring. So please to take advantage of that if

458
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:31,039
you would like. And in the meantime, we got some

459
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:32,599
questions this week.

460
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Speaker 1: Yeah, hell Goo writes to us, I planted a new

461
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,720
lawn last fall at my cabin west of Baldwin. This spring,

462
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,720
I want to put down more seed, apply fertilizer, crab

463
00:23:42,759 --> 00:23:46,200
grass preventor what orders should I do this first? More

464
00:23:46,319 --> 00:23:50,279
grass than apply the fertilizer or fertilizer than plant grass.

465
00:23:51,079 --> 00:23:54,799
The property is north about ninety miles from Grand Rapids.

466
00:23:54,799 --> 00:23:58,400
What is the general timeline, So that's the point timeline.

467
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,839
It's based on soil temper so that's when annual weeds

468
00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:07,440
like crabgrass will germinate in the soil, usually when soil

469
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,000
temperatures get to about fifty five to sixty degrees. Stacy,

470
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,920
A lot of people like to use a visual reminder

471
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,160
and that being the forsythios when they're in bloom, But

472
00:24:18,319 --> 00:24:24,079
really technically you should learn about growing degree days GDD

473
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:29,680
as well as soil temperature and universities like Michigan State University.

474
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,680
It's a resource that I use. It's available to all

475
00:24:34,559 --> 00:24:38,759
has a GDD tracker, and as a matter of fact,

476
00:24:38,759 --> 00:24:42,839
I took a look at it yesterday and it's interesting, Stacey.

477
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,400
Every year is different. Oh, for sure, last year we

478
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:52,720
were in optimum application time for crabgrass pre emergent the

479
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,599
end of March because of the temperatures had warmed up.

480
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,720
We did not have as much snow in winter and ice,

481
00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:04,440
whereas this year we haven't even hit the optimum point

482
00:25:04,599 --> 00:25:07,240
yet and we're going to be more normal this year.

483
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:12,559
Where usually the crab grass controls are applied somewhere around

484
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,400
between the first and third week of April tax.

485
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,519
Speaker 2: Day, tax day tax good to note. Well, I think, Helga,

486
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,200
that's all great information about timing. But the real key

487
00:25:24,279 --> 00:25:27,319
here to answering your question is you're asking whether you

488
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,680
put down the fertilizer crab grass preventer first and then

489
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,279
the seed or vice versa. And the thing that everybody

490
00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:35,160
needs to know about this question that makes such a

491
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,799
good question is that crab grass preventer. The majority of

492
00:25:38,799 --> 00:25:44,200
crabgrass preventers are simply pre emergence. They prevent seed from germinating. Correct,

493
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,799
So if you put down your grass seed and then

494
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,640
put down the crabgrass pre emergent or even vice versa,

495
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:55,240
your grass seed will not germinate. So it's not like

496
00:25:55,279 --> 00:25:58,319
it's specific to crabgrass. There are certain ones that might be,

497
00:25:58,759 --> 00:26:04,039
but overall, the majority of crabgrass preventors prevent grass from germinating,

498
00:26:04,079 --> 00:26:05,799
not crabgrass specifically.

499
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: That's exactly so if I.

500
00:26:08,279 --> 00:26:11,079
Speaker 2: Would recommend so you kind of have a real issue here,

501
00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:14,599
a real quandary, because you're going to have this optimum

502
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,519
time to put down your crab grass pre emergent, but

503
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,759
you need to get that grass germinated and growing first,

504
00:26:21,519 --> 00:26:23,559
and you will see if you look at some packages,

505
00:26:23,599 --> 00:26:24,880
and actually you don't even need to go to the

506
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,359
garden center. If you just look at some brands websites,

507
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,279
you can find all of the package instructions right there

508
00:26:30,279 --> 00:26:33,359
on your computer or your phone and read what they say,

509
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,240
because it might say, for example, you know, don't apply

510
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,799
this within fifteen days of having put down grass seed,

511
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,599
so it will have some sort of you know, window

512
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,680
of time where that is safe to do, and you're

513
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,599
going to want to make sure you follow that exactly.

514
00:26:46,759 --> 00:26:49,799
So we haven't hit the window yet. You might be

515
00:26:49,799 --> 00:26:52,039
able to put down grass seed and get it germinating.

516
00:26:53,079 --> 00:26:55,319
If not, then I would say go ahead and put

517
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,599
down your crab grass pre emergent. Read that carefully to

518
00:26:58,599 --> 00:27:00,880
find out how long that's going to last. Then try

519
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,920
to get your grass seed growing. But these two things

520
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,759
are going to be difficult to time properly to make

521
00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:08,920
sure that that it works.

522
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,839
Speaker 1: The time to seed alawn is in fall. That's the

523
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,640
time to do it. So in spring you're gonna find

524
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,480
with most pre emergent controls, they're going to put down

525
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,680
a barrier that lasts twelve weeks, so you can forget

526
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:27,039
about seeding. Unless you buy a product specifically made for seeding,

527
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,599
they're generally difficult to find and very expressed.

528
00:27:31,599 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 2: I would guess. I would guess, so, Hellga, I think

529
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,319
you're going to need to make a decision. Is it

530
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:37,839
going to be grass seed or is it going to

531
00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:41,480
be fertilizer and pre emergence? Save the grass seed for fall?

532
00:27:41,519 --> 00:27:44,920
Maybe I would do, especially since you're not going to be,

533
00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:46,599
you know, there all the time of it's your cabin,

534
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,680
so timing, as in most cases, is everything is everything.

535
00:27:51,799 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: Joyce wrote to us about native plants for Michigan an

536
00:27:56,079 --> 00:27:58,920
official list of Native plans. Yeah.

537
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 2: So I thought this was such a great question because

538
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,599
you know, I know that so many people out there

539
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,000
are so interested in learning about native plants, growing more

540
00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:09,119
native plants. But you're kind of just like, where do

541
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,839
I start? And the first thing I would say is

542
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,960
decide how native you want to be? Like, are you

543
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,359
going to be native to your county? Are you going

544
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,039
to be native to your region of Michigan. Are you

545
00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:19,279
going to be native to the state the peninsula. There's

546
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:20,920
lots of different ways that can go, and that is

547
00:28:21,319 --> 00:28:24,359
a decision that each of us can make for ourselves.

548
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,400
And then we are going to put a nice long

549
00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:33,079
list from Michigan State University of native plants in Michigan.

550
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,000
But bear in mind that there are roughly estimated, because

551
00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:39,359
no one really knows for sure, but well over six

552
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:44,400
hundred different species of native plants to Michigan, and lists

553
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,759
like the one that we're going to share in the

554
00:28:45,759 --> 00:28:49,960
show notes and in the YouTube caption there tend to

555
00:28:50,039 --> 00:28:54,480
focus on the species that are more commercially available. You know,

556
00:28:54,519 --> 00:28:56,480
there's certainly a lot of plants out there that are

557
00:28:56,599 --> 00:29:00,680
native but just don't necessarily have the appeal at garden

558
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,599
centers where people are going to be, you know, grabbing

559
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,480
them up and wanting to plant them. So know that

560
00:29:05,559 --> 00:29:07,559
it's not going to be a comprehensive list, but it's

561
00:29:07,599 --> 00:29:10,079
going to be a good reference for you to know

562
00:29:10,119 --> 00:29:12,359
what to look for in garden centers. Now, a couple

563
00:29:12,359 --> 00:29:15,480
of other resources I have for you. We are lucky

564
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,279
at Michigan we have a couple of outstanding native plant nurseries.

565
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,359
I personally have shopped at Wild Type out near Williamston

566
00:29:23,519 --> 00:29:25,680
multiple times. They're only open to the public a couple

567
00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:29,200
weekends a year. They have a great selection, but there's

568
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,079
lots and lots of other ones. There's a wonderful one

569
00:29:31,119 --> 00:29:33,160
near Anne Arbor. The name escapes me at the moment,

570
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,400
but you don't just search Michigan native plant nurseries and

571
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,400
see what you can find. Those would also be an

572
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,799
excellent choice because you can trust that everything that they

573
00:29:42,839 --> 00:29:45,319
have there is going to be native since that is

574
00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:45,960
their specialty.

575
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,599
Speaker 1: And many garden centers and greenhouses have added a native

576
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,920
plant section, and so yes, I would do that research.

577
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,480
I think you pointed out a really important thing Stacy

578
00:29:56,559 --> 00:29:58,960
as it relates to the state of Michigan, and that

579
00:29:59,079 --> 00:30:01,960
is you have to take regional approach because you're going

580
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,440
to find there's Southern lower, there's Northern lower, and then

581
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,839
there's up and different climates, different soils, it's gonna vary.

582
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can split them mint up into many different sections.

583
00:30:13,559 --> 00:30:17,000
And then finally, I just wanted to mention there is

584
00:30:17,039 --> 00:30:21,359
a wonderful nationwide organization called wild Ones and they are

585
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,440
dedicated to educating people about native plants, and the Grand

586
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,920
Rapids chapter out here is very active. They do a

587
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,200
ton of great work, so definitely take a look at them.

588
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,400
They would be a great resource for joining together to

589
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,400
learn about native plants and learning from each other. So

590
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,359
take a look for your local wild Ones chapter as well.

591
00:30:42,519 --> 00:30:45,759
Speaker 1: Gonna hit this one real quick. Shelley Wondering, absolutely love

592
00:30:45,799 --> 00:30:48,920
your show, learn so much. Thank you Gardening in West Michigan.

593
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:54,440
Wondering what are the best annuals for full sun window boxes?

594
00:30:54,599 --> 00:30:56,920
And Stacey, I'll just throw a few out the Star

595
00:30:57,039 --> 00:31:04,200
Divas Scavola's fabulous for how Weather, meteor shower, diamond frost, lemon,

596
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,200
coral sea. I mean, there are so many that that

597
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,559
you can pick from, and I love the mojave portolaca.

598
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,160
I just think it's a great plant for it.

599
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 2: It is a great plant if you're retired and can

600
00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:18,440
see it open during the day, But that's one of

601
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,759
those ones that close up and the closes up in

602
00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:23,640
the afternoon. Shelley, I think this is a great question

603
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,200
because you said that you know some of your window

604
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,279
boxes in part son have done better than your ones

605
00:31:27,319 --> 00:31:30,920
in full sun, and you know window boxes, most of

606
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,799
them are a relatively small volume of soil, so you

607
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,400
definitely need to consider as you are. You know that

608
00:31:38,519 --> 00:31:42,000
plants can withstand not just the sun, but drying out

609
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,720
more quickly and not having a really you know, big

610
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:47,319
volume of soil around those routes, so you're looking for

611
00:31:47,359 --> 00:31:50,599
stuff that is very heat and drought tolerant. Now, I

612
00:31:50,599 --> 00:31:52,880
think that it's interesting, Shelley that you and your own

613
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,920
message mentioned the start eve A blue scaffola, because that

614
00:31:56,039 --> 00:31:58,319
is the plant that actually started the proven Winters brand.

615
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,720
They had found it in US Australia, where of course

616
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,519
they need everything to be super side and drought tolerant,

617
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,680
and it was they were growing it in window boxes

618
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,880
and hanging baskets and is a groundcover and they were

619
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,319
just like, hey, this plant can take it all. So

620
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,960
that would be a great choice I think as well.

621
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,599
Now I will put some links in the show notes

622
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,799
as well as in the caption on YouTube for some

623
00:32:20,839 --> 00:32:24,559
great sun tolerant annuals. But a couple that I would

624
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:26,960
add to that, I would say yes geraniums. I would

625
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,519
even say ivy geraniums, even though Rick does not like

626
00:32:29,559 --> 00:32:32,839
them as we discovered. Sorry, Rick, but I would say

627
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,880
yes to geraniums. Classic choice lantana. Now that is a

628
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,559
very heat and drought tolerant plant. And the cool thing

629
00:32:39,559 --> 00:32:41,680
about lantana is you can pick one that grows up

630
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,599
or one that spreads or makes them both together. So

631
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,440
you just want to look at the plant tags to

632
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,640
find one depending on the look that you want, sweet

633
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,880
potato wine another super sun and drought tolerant.

634
00:32:52,519 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: Plant, pink gum free love that one. Oh that thing

635
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,200
and it'll stand up to the heat. And what about

636
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:00,000
many vistas.

637
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, all the supertunias should do really great. I mean

638
00:33:02,839 --> 00:33:05,000
they're not going to tolerate heat like in the South,

639
00:33:05,039 --> 00:33:07,440
but certainly the summers that we have in the Midwest

640
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,519
and north, you won't have any trouble growing those all

641
00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:13,240
summer long. So we'll put some resources for you on

642
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,559
the website at Gardeningsimplified on air dot com. Right now,

643
00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:18,200
we're going to take a break and then we're going

644
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,559
to talk a little bit more about our beloved spring ephemerals.

645
00:33:21,559 --> 00:33:29,839
To stay tuned. Thanks for listening to the Gardening Simplified podcast,

646
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,680
brought to you by Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs. Our

647
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,759
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648
00:33:35,759 --> 00:33:38,720
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649
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,240
Proven Winners color Choice dot com.

650
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,119
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Gardening Simplify Show as we continue

651
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,680
our talk on spring ephemeral flowers and Stacey, I have

652
00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:56,039
to say that bloodroot is one of my favorites. I

653
00:33:56,119 --> 00:33:59,200
have numerous pictures to share on the YouTube version of

654
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:04,920
our show. But when that green scalloped foliage on furrows

655
00:34:05,119 --> 00:34:08,280
and then that white flower emerges, and of course the

656
00:34:08,519 --> 00:34:14,239
history of that plant a native plant, blood roots one

657
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:14,920
of my favorites.

658
00:34:15,079 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 2: It is so special, and you know it is one

659
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,719
of those ones it does form large colonies. I haven't

660
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,480
seen very many large colonies around here, but that's what

661
00:34:24,519 --> 00:34:26,159
I was talking about when I'm saying, if you just

662
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:28,880
see the trilliums from the highway and you never get

663
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,000
in there to see, you'll miss things like bloodroot. And

664
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,000
you know, the flower of blood root is pretty, but

665
00:34:33,039 --> 00:34:37,360
that foliage is just glorious. It's so so pretty.

666
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a picture of it just emerging through

667
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,880
the leaf litter. I'm with you on that. I think

668
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,960
another thing you and I agree on, Stacey, and that

669
00:34:47,079 --> 00:34:51,960
is marsh marigold in the buttercup family, those bright yellow flowers.

670
00:34:52,039 --> 00:34:54,920
When I'd be running on the trail and you get

671
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,360
some of these low areas where it's wet, marsh marigolds.

672
00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:02,639
Speaker 2: All right, So you're telling me that this is a

673
00:35:02,639 --> 00:35:05,159
marigold you can stand because it's not a true maragold.

674
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,159
Speaker 1: Yes, it's not a true it's so fund.

675
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 2: An exception from your plants that people keltha. So yeah,

676
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,199
marshmare gold is such a cheerful plant. It does grow

677
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,280
in pretty much standing water, and so you'll often find

678
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,480
it where you found skunk cabbage, which is one of

679
00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:25,519
my favorites. Skunk cabbage is so special, such a unique plant.

680
00:35:26,519 --> 00:35:28,880
I know when I traveled to Australia, I was with

681
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,119
my father in law and he had a colleague that

682
00:35:31,159 --> 00:35:33,440
lived there and he was taking us around and he

683
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,519
said to me, oh, does skunk cabbage grow where you live?

684
00:35:37,559 --> 00:35:39,800
And I was like yeah, And he was studying it

685
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,320
as a material scientist because it actually heats up the

686
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:43,719
ground around it and melts the.

687
00:35:43,679 --> 00:35:45,599
Speaker 1: Snow generates its own heat, so.

688
00:35:45,519 --> 00:35:47,679
Speaker 2: They don't bloom at the same time. But any place

689
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,440
that you find skunk cabbage really really wet, muddy, standing

690
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,440
water kind of soils, you will also find keltha or marshmaregold.

691
00:35:55,639 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: A few weeks later, and think about groggy emerging pollinators

692
00:36:01,519 --> 00:36:03,639
and how important skunk cabbage would be there.

693
00:36:03,679 --> 00:36:05,159
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, for sure, especially flies.

694
00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:09,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, So there you go, as I mentioned in the

695
00:36:09,199 --> 00:36:13,440
first segment, I view some of the minor bulbs as

696
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:19,400
a spring ephemeral in my yard. I love anemone Blanda,

697
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,719
just such a beautiful tuberus rooted perennial. I have a

698
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,719
picture to share with you that I took at Corkanhoff

699
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,360
Gardens in the Netherlands. This one's a tough one to pronounce.

700
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,320
Kon a doxa. Some people call it kayan odoxa. But

701
00:36:34,519 --> 00:36:35,320
glory of the.

702
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,559
Speaker 2: Snow yep, wow, very plastic socks off.

703
00:36:39,679 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I saw a great quote

704
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,639
on the plant from an individual who lives in Minneapolis.

705
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,320
It gets very cold in Minneapolis, folks, and this person

706
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,199
said this plant will continue to grow come hell or

707
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,039
high water or hard freeze.

708
00:36:55,119 --> 00:36:56,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's It's a tough one.

709
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: Galanth of snowdrops. They're bell shaped, ok, white flowers offset

710
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,880
by bright green markings. Love it. We've talked on this

711
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,079
show before. I think we got a question on it.

712
00:37:08,679 --> 00:37:13,079
Winter aconite and one of the earliest bulbs to bloom

713
00:37:13,119 --> 00:37:13,480
and spring.

714
00:37:13,679 --> 00:37:17,119
Speaker 2: Definitely love that one. Also a very cheery yellow kind

715
00:37:17,159 --> 00:37:19,159
of rounded flower.

716
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:24,199
Speaker 1: Yes, like yeah, And then I know Adriana I believe

717
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,239
likes Muscari grape pious.

718
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, she planted a bunch last year, so she's going

719
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,039
to have a good display coming up into this year.

720
00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:33,840
I love them too, and there's such a diversity, you know.

721
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,400
That's if you are just sticking to like the grocery

722
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,440
store varieties of muscary every fall, you know, and you

723
00:37:41,559 --> 00:37:43,559
love it, you owe it to yourself to get a

724
00:37:43,599 --> 00:37:47,079
catalog and order some of the specialty muscaris, like Valerie Finnis,

725
00:37:47,079 --> 00:37:50,760
which is just the most glorious sky blue color. Oh

726
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,519
my gosh, that is such a beautiful plant. There's so

727
00:37:52,519 --> 00:37:53,440
many cool ones out there.

728
00:37:53,559 --> 00:37:57,079
Speaker 1: Yeah. I go back to again Cookinhoff Gardens in the

729
00:37:57,079 --> 00:38:02,199
Netherlands and they create a blue river Muscary grape hyacinths.

730
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,599
But you're so right, Stacey. That the some of the

731
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,960
new varieties, and we have some pictures to share with

732
00:38:08,039 --> 00:38:12,559
you on YouTube, including the pure white ones. Not only

733
00:38:12,639 --> 00:38:16,800
the color is vivid, but just the shape of the flower.

734
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,639
Speaker 2: They're just unused and they smell so good. Now usually

735
00:38:19,639 --> 00:38:21,360
you don't get down there and smell them because they're

736
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,039
so close to the ground, but they make good cut

737
00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:26,840
flowers for a little vase, and they do smell absolutely.

738
00:38:27,119 --> 00:38:28,760
They kind of smell like grapes. They kind of have

739
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,880
like that grape goool aid smell. I don't know it's

740
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,639
apartmental or but yeah, that's that's kind of the vibe

741
00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:35,440
that I get from them.

742
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: What about Dutchman's breechers, Oh, Rick.

743
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 2: Thank you for mentioning my Well, is it my all time?

744
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:42,199
Speaker 1: I mean, is it really?

745
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 2: I don't know if I can pick a favorite spring ephemeral,

746
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,800
but Dutchman's breeches dicentric cuculaurea is easily one of my favorites.

747
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,719
And there's a park out here in West Michigan that

748
00:38:54,039 --> 00:38:58,760
used to have the most breath taking display of them.

749
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,679
I mean there was tens of thousands of them off

750
00:39:01,679 --> 00:39:05,079
this dune. It was amazing. It was something I look

751
00:39:05,159 --> 00:39:08,400
forward to every year. And I have not seen it

752
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,320
the last three years, and I believe that unfortunately, what

753
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,559
has happened is that the deer are eating the flowers.

754
00:39:14,679 --> 00:39:17,880
The plants are still there, but I've started hiking up

755
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,119
there with my binoculars, and when I look with my binoculars,

756
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,760
I see a lot of cut off stems, and so

757
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,039
I think unfortunately, my favorite display of them I have

758
00:39:28,119 --> 00:39:31,159
not seen. But a lot of people might think that

759
00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:33,840
it's called Dutchman's britches and it's here in West Michigan

760
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,400
and that's where it got its name. But no, these

761
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,880
really do look like funny little pairs of pants flying

762
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,880
off the stem. And it's just one of those plants

763
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,760
that if you were to see a picture of it,

764
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,000
like online or in a book or something like that,

765
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,400
you'd go, WHOA, that plant is so cool. I wonder

766
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:48,840
if I could ever see it in real life. And

767
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,840
it's like, No, you walk out your door and it's

768
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,320
like growing a mile down the road.

769
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's beautiful with the feathery.

770
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:55,639
Speaker 2: It's just so pretty.

771
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,039
Speaker 1: Love it. And for folks keeping score at home, if

772
00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:02,840
you're watching or listening to our program in California or

773
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,199
outside of the United States in Canada, West Michigan is

774
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,599
notorious for Dutch people.

775
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 2: That's true. Sorry, a lot of US.

776
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,119
Speaker 1: Dutch people here in West.

777
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 2: I guess I was assuming people would know that because

778
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,280
of the Holland Michigan movie that's getting so much publicity

779
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:17,920
these days.

780
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. Squirrel corn or Dycentra canadensis. Some

781
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,400
people would Stacey referred to it as bleeding hearts, but

782
00:40:29,679 --> 00:40:33,440
it is Dycentra canadensis. So you'll find this plant in

783
00:40:33,519 --> 00:40:36,840
Canada all the way down the East coast in the

784
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,760
United States. And of course the blooms are unique and beautiful.

785
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so the foliage really looks very similar to

786
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,360
the Dutchman's breaches. Yes, and you often find them growing

787
00:40:46,519 --> 00:40:49,800
in and around each other, which would make perhaps the

788
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,320
uninitiated thing like, whoa, is this some sort of mutation

789
00:40:52,559 --> 00:40:55,800
of the other. But they're two totally distinct species. And

790
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,679
I love this. Do not dig one up, but so

791
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,960
take my word for it or google it. But the

792
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,480
reason it's called squirrel corn is because the root does

793
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,960
indeed look like a tiny little ear of corn with

794
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,000
like little like the bulblitz on it look like little

795
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,360
pieces of corn. It's a pretty amazing thing to see.

796
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 1: Very cool plant. How about Jack and the Pulpit.

797
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 2: I love I'm sorry, I'm people are just gonna be like,

798
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,400
is there there is? There is no spring of Emerald

799
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,400
that I hate. There's not a single one. I love

800
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,559
them all, But Jack in the Pulpit is so special.

801
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 1: This one pops right out of a fairy tale. Yeah,

802
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,960
you know, when I'd run on the trail. Take pictures

803
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:37,840
of it. Yeah, it's it's just this unmistakable hooded champagne

804
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:43,039
fluted shaped cup, the pulpit and then the slender stall.

805
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a cool And now that is a plant.

806
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,400
When we were talking, I mentioned briefly about the you know,

807
00:41:49,559 --> 00:41:54,960
Asian and North American floristic disjunction, the commonalities between them. Now,

808
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,920
Asia got the lion's share of the jack in the

809
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,239
pulpits the arisima species that are native to Asia will

810
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:06,320
knock your socks off. They are stunning, amazing. I mean

811
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,559
ours is pretty great, but theirs are like who over

812
00:42:08,599 --> 00:42:08,920
the top.

813
00:42:09,199 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: So you've got a good location or source for Hepatica

814
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:18,119
Hepatica americana. Other people referred to it as liver wort

815
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,920
or liver leaf, so over really dark leaf to it,

816
00:42:22,679 --> 00:42:25,239
bluish flower I think it has.

817
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 2: So they can be blue, purple or white. Yeah, And

818
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,599
that's another plant that I feel like when I moved

819
00:42:30,599 --> 00:42:33,280
here fourteen years ago, I saw everywhere in the woods,

820
00:42:33,679 --> 00:42:36,000
and I feel like the populations have kind of disappeared,

821
00:42:36,039 --> 00:42:38,320
and I don't know if that's difficult. I don't know

822
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,920
if that's an issue of the deer or you know,

823
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,280
I think one thing that I've seen, like around the

824
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,559
Muskegon State Parks is that I feel like the leaf

825
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:50,559
litter is staying so much and suffocating them, like it's

826
00:42:50,559 --> 00:42:53,639
not blowing away to kind of expose them. So I

827
00:42:53,679 --> 00:42:55,400
don't see nearly as many as I used to. But

828
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,599
that is a gorgeous plant that is also a very

829
00:42:57,679 --> 00:42:58,480
very cool plant.

830
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,519
Speaker 1: The trail that I would one had all kinds of

831
00:43:01,639 --> 00:43:07,119
wood anemone on it, so single flowers. Would you know?

832
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,719
They're white flowers is what they are. The edges of

833
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:15,280
the leaflets are kind of toothed, but very unique plant.

834
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,440
And you this is one that you would just see

835
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:23,840
in drifts. Yeah, love that wild wildflower and spring ephemeral

836
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,679
wild columbine right, love.

837
00:43:26,519 --> 00:43:29,599
Speaker 2: It, absolutely, love it. Definitely on the verge of like

838
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,000
is it ephemeral? Is it not?

839
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:31,639
Speaker 1: Right?

840
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,039
Speaker 2: Because the foliage does persist on that and that kind

841
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:36,440
of I think brings up the tail end of the

842
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,239
ephemeral season because it starts to bloom sort of as

843
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,440
everything else is going out. But that's another plant that

844
00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:44,119
if you were to just see a picture of this

845
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:48,719
red and yellow flower that's just so intricate and so different,

846
00:43:49,639 --> 00:43:51,719
you'd be like, where can I see that? And it's like,

847
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:53,920
oh yeah, in the woods, and once it's happy and

848
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,280
it starts self sewing, it's everywhere in a really kind

849
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:58,199
and gentle way.

850
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: And drifts just beautiful. Yeah, just beautiful. I got to

851
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,440
hit on this one because I think I'm pretty sure

852
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,119
it's a favorite of yours. While people in spring are

853
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:12,199
killing these in droves in their lawn. You love violas in.

854
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 2: Violet, I do, and the lawn violets is one thing,

855
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,920
but there are amazing native violets that they have, the

856
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,239
bird's foot violet, the yellow violet. I do get very

857
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,840
excited about those. You're absolutely right, I love them so much.

858
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,519
Speaker 1: But I think it's a good thing to point out, Stacey,

859
00:44:28,599 --> 00:44:33,320
is that not all violets or violas or wild violets

860
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:39,239
are created the same. There are oval shaped leaves, toothed leaves,

861
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,679
heart shaped leaves. So there are If you're interested in

862
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:49,440
violets or interested in the spring ephemerals, get to know

863
00:44:49,519 --> 00:44:51,480
them and do a little bit of research because they're

864
00:44:51,519 --> 00:44:53,599
not all created the same, no, and.

865
00:44:53,559 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: There's so much to see, so that's the main thing.

866
00:44:55,559 --> 00:44:58,239
Get to know them. Get out there and see them

867
00:44:58,239 --> 00:44:59,719
while you can because they don't last long.

868
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,599
Speaker 1: So anything I can add to your list, Stacy, or

869
00:45:02,639 --> 00:45:03,719
did we hit them all?

870
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 2: The only one that I would add would be a

871
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:12,199
very strange little creature that it did not encounter previously,

872
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,480
but it grows pretty abundantly around here, and that is

873
00:45:15,559 --> 00:45:20,280
pendicularis also known as laoswort. It is a hemi or

874
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,639
semi parasitic plant, and it comes out with this really

875
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:27,440
cool kind of like rosette of feathery foliage, and then

876
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,360
the flowers come out and they're red and yellow, and

877
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,960
they're curved, and it's just such a unique plant. And

878
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,159
it gets its nutrition partially from the tree roots that

879
00:45:37,199 --> 00:45:38,559
it grows on. So it's a very cool thing that

880
00:45:38,599 --> 00:45:40,400
you can see around here, especially on the lake shore.

881
00:45:40,519 --> 00:45:43,079
Speaker 1: Interesting and when you think about it, in early spring

882
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,840
trees pull a lot of water out of the ground,

883
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,840
and so in early spring again, these plants are taking

884
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:54,119
the opportunity to do their thing and we all benefit

885
00:45:54,199 --> 00:45:54,559
from it.

886
00:45:54,639 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 2: We sure do, and you should do. You bet, get

887
00:45:57,039 --> 00:45:57,760
out there.

888
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: Fun show, Stacy. Thank you so much, Thank you, Adrianna,

889
00:46:01,559 --> 00:46:04,360
and thanks most of all to you for watching or

890
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,480
listening to our show. Have yourself a great week,