1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. 3 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:11,679 Speaker 3: I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,439 now trying to use my experience as the brother of 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,399 a murder victim to help other victims of violent crime. 6 00:00:17,679 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 2: I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial. 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,879 Speaker 3: Parkway murders and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,519 Parkway Murders Facebook group together with Kristin Dilly. 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:27,359 Speaker 1: My name is Kristin Dilly. 10 00:00:27,519 --> 00:00:31,199 Speaker 4: I'm a writer, a researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, 11 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:34,719 as well as the social media manager and co administrator 12 00:00:34,799 --> 00:00:37,799 for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:38,560 in crime. 14 00:00:38,359 --> 00:00:39,079 Speaker 2: Bill Thomas. 15 00:00:42,439 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 5: Welcome to Mind Ever Murder. 16 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,079 Speaker 3: I'm Kristin Dilly and I'm Bill Thomas. 17 00:00:46,679 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 5: We are joined today by Kevin Fixler, professional reporter from 18 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,399 the idahos Statesman, here to talk to us a little 19 00:00:53,439 --> 00:00:58,200 bit about the Idaho or murder case and the coverage 20 00:00:58,439 --> 00:01:00,520 that his paper has done since the beginning. 21 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,159 Speaker 3: Kevin, thank you for joining us today. 22 00:01:02,159 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 5: We appreciate it. 23 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. 24 00:01:05,879 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 5: Start by talking to us about your professional credentials and 25 00:01:08,879 --> 00:01:10,200 your work at the Idaho Statesmen. 26 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: Sure. 27 00:01:11,599 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 6: So, I'm one of our three investigative reporters as part 28 00:01:14,239 --> 00:01:18,159 of our accountability team. We have about fifteen to seventeen reporters. 29 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,319 We have a newsroom of about twenty five. My background is, 30 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:26,000 like many of us, not quite linear. But after undergraduates, 31 00:01:26,079 --> 00:01:29,280 which I studied journalism and American history, I meandered a 32 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,480 bit until I found my way to graduate school at 33 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,760 SESSE Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism. 34 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,519 Speaker 2: Finished there. I was actually a freelance. 35 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 6: Sports writer for many years before graduate school, and then 36 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,760 even a year or two after, and then I found 37 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,079 my way to my first newspaper, which was the Summit 38 00:01:46,159 --> 00:01:49,719 Daily News in Frisco, Colorado in the Western Slope for 39 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,239 anybody who is listening and knows that area, but it's essentially. 40 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,439 Speaker 2: Breckenriche Ski town. 41 00:01:54,599 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 6: So I worked there for about two years, and then 42 00:01:56,959 --> 00:01:59,920 I moved on to the Santa Rosa Press Democrat newspaper, 43 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,879 where I got more than my fill of catastrophic wildfire 44 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:07,200 coverage and also survived COVID in California, so that was 45 00:02:07,319 --> 00:02:09,919 an interesting experience. And then I made my way to 46 00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:12,120 Boise on a whim. I was actually going to work 47 00:02:12,159 --> 00:02:14,199 on a book and take a break from journalism, but 48 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:16,919 I couldn't quit it, or it couldn't quit me, I'm 49 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,199 not sure which. But in the midst of some freelance 50 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:25,039 work actually on the Capital Punishment here in Idaho, which 51 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,199 was my first foray into that, I started down a 52 00:02:28,199 --> 00:02:30,599 path with the Idaho Statesman, and I've been with the 53 00:02:30,599 --> 00:02:32,479 paper for just over four years now. 54 00:02:33,159 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 3: So you're a little bit of a journalistic gypsy, as 55 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:37,560 it were. 56 00:02:39,039 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 6: I guess you could say that. I know that historically, 57 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,520 and things have changed. Of course, in the industry, things 58 00:02:44,599 --> 00:02:47,599 certainly have evolved, but I think it's not uncommon that, 59 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,080 maybe more on radio and TV, that people move from 60 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,840 markets and you start small and move up if things 61 00:02:53,879 --> 00:02:56,759 go accordingly, or become an editor in a smaller place 62 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,719 or what have you. But yeah, that was my path, 63 00:02:59,759 --> 00:03:01,520 which is maybe a little bit more traditional, but we 64 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,319 don't necessarily see that so much anymore. 65 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 5: Obviously, the biggest story in Idaho since twenty twenty two 66 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,080 is the quadruple murder of Kaylee Maddie's Enna and Ethan 67 00:03:13,159 --> 00:03:16,680 by Brian Coberger. So talk to us a little bit 68 00:03:16,719 --> 00:03:21,879 about what happens in a newsroom when news that momentous 69 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,120 actually comes in, what how does the process start in reporting? 70 00:03:28,439 --> 00:03:30,479 Speaker 6: This is an interesting story. I've told it before, but 71 00:03:30,599 --> 00:03:32,800 I was out of town when this all broke. I'm 72 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,599 originally from Denver, and I got a text message from 73 00:03:36,599 --> 00:03:40,840 my editor and he said, there's been four students were 74 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:41,360 found dead. 75 00:03:41,639 --> 00:03:42,479 Speaker 2: We use the word killed. 76 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 6: We really didn't know and there wasn't a lot of 77 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,000 information early in and the reason why this to the extent, 78 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,639 I was on vacation, and my editor felt like for 79 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,759 reaching out. I was the morning reporter for the next 80 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,400 day and I was traveling back and he. 81 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,039 Speaker 2: Said, this just happened. 82 00:03:55,039 --> 00:03:57,919 Speaker 6: We're just getting word out of Moscow, which is six 83 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,680 hours north of Boise where we're based, so about three 84 00:04:00,759 --> 00:04:03,879 hundred miles. And I'd never been to Moscow, probably at 85 00:04:03,919 --> 00:04:07,439 that time even mispronounced it as Moscow. But I got 86 00:04:07,439 --> 00:04:10,479 the word from my editor, and I again I drew 87 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,319 the short straw to some extent, and I was the 88 00:04:12,319 --> 00:04:15,080 breaking news reporter, just filling in the next day, and 89 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:16,879 he said, let's hit this as hard as we can 90 00:04:16,959 --> 00:04:19,160 with everything we can and learn all the details. And 91 00:04:19,199 --> 00:04:22,240 so I was flying back thinking about this and the 92 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,480 reason why this is so momentous in our community, in 93 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,560 our state. Is that again, listeners may have different experiences, 94 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,839 particularly those may be in a place like California or 95 00:04:29,879 --> 00:04:34,279 New York, but a quadruple homicide is entirely unheard of 96 00:04:34,319 --> 00:04:37,199 in Idaho. It's now a state of about two million people. 97 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,079 We're still pretty small, but it's just it was completely 98 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,560 unheard of. And that was really the point my editor 99 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,439 wanted to register with me was, I know, you're not 100 00:04:45,519 --> 00:04:48,160 from here, and I was still a year or not 101 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,959 quite two on the job, and he was emphasizing that 102 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,079 this is it's unprecedented basically for our state. 103 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:55,439 Speaker 2: And we ended up doing that research. 104 00:04:55,879 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 6: Lake Talk County, which is where Moscow is located, hadn't 105 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,680 had a murder in seven years, and so it's just, yeah, 106 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,800 it's just that police department was completely overwhelmed and not 107 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,000 really designed for that. They're used to writeing MIP tickets 108 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,079 and you're probably checking the vehicle registration tags and next 109 00:05:11,079 --> 00:05:13,480 thing you know, they're hopping on the biggest what became 110 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,959 i think the biggest case in the nation for an 111 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,240 extended period. So in terms of getting to it immediately, 112 00:05:21,759 --> 00:05:23,480 we had to learn more. We weren't sure, there was 113 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:24,879 a lot of rumor about whether or not this was 114 00:05:24,959 --> 00:05:27,839 a drug overdost or something like that. Those were rumors 115 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,040 early in, but you just don't hear about for student's dying. 116 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,959 And so we took the approach of an all hands 117 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,319 on deck once we started to learn more and passing 118 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,360 the torch from morning to evening and then signing for 119 00:05:38,399 --> 00:05:40,959 the next day, and you're scrambling. It's certainly breaking news, 120 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,040 and you're competing with outlets at that time, probably just 121 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,279 in the state and then the region, but it quickly 122 00:05:47,319 --> 00:05:50,240 grew as we're spread across the country about a very 123 00:05:50,439 --> 00:05:54,639 mysterious and shocking incidents in Idaho of all places. 124 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,519 Speaker 3: So you mentioned that you're based in Poise, and that's 125 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:04,199 three hundred miles away. So how does the newspaper even 126 00:06:04,319 --> 00:06:09,480 handle the initial logistics? Did you have a staff reporter 127 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,560 up that way or how's it work? 128 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 6: Yeah, so we are three hundred miles south. Idaho is 129 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,079 a massive state from north to south. It's about eight 130 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:25,000 hours north to the Canadian border, so even two hours 131 00:06:25,079 --> 00:06:28,600 north of Moscow, and before we were deciding whether or 132 00:06:28,639 --> 00:06:31,560 not to physically send somebody, that's quite a drive, I'll 133 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,040 tell you and we're making initial phone calls. You're trying 134 00:06:35,079 --> 00:06:38,120 to reach the public information officer for the police department. 135 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:42,040 We were reaching out to the university. They were deeply involved. Again, 136 00:06:42,079 --> 00:06:45,160 you're scrambling. The mayor of Moscow ended up steppingto the 137 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,839 mic several times early in and just trying to wrap 138 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,399 your head around this. And once again we started to 139 00:06:51,439 --> 00:06:55,040 learn more details. Me having just come off my vacation trip, 140 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,360 I passed it along and we sent Actually we thought 141 00:06:58,439 --> 00:07:00,360 what was going to be advantageous for us, because I 142 00:07:00,399 --> 00:07:02,879 didn't know the community was We sent a colleague at mine, 143 00:07:02,879 --> 00:07:06,680 Angela Palermo, who was fairly new into our newsroom, not 144 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,639 a new journalist by any means, but new to our newsroom, 145 00:07:09,959 --> 00:07:13,120 and she had graduated from the University of Idaho in Moscow, 146 00:07:13,199 --> 00:07:16,639 so had a great familiarity with the school, the community, 147 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,879 the city, and we felt that gave us our best shot. 148 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,079 And she basically ended up living up there for about 149 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,839 two or three months, and again, as we learned more 150 00:07:24,879 --> 00:07:27,920 and more from the investigative side, where I'd play a 151 00:07:27,959 --> 00:07:30,959 role for our newspaper across a number of subjects. I 152 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,439 went up there about two weeks later and started to 153 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,680 scrounge around and looked for different leads and new information 154 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,279 once the facts started to trickle in. So I ended 155 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,199 up over the course of before it moved. The case 156 00:07:42,319 --> 00:07:45,839 was moved to Boise through a change venue that happened 157 00:07:45,839 --> 00:07:49,800 in September last year. But I took six trips up 158 00:07:49,839 --> 00:07:53,000 there and multiple day visits, and I also traveled to 159 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,680 Coberger's hometown in the Pocono Mountains in Pennsylvania, so that 160 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,079 was another trip I took as well. But you go 161 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,399 where the news take you and where do you feel 162 00:08:01,399 --> 00:08:04,519 like you can deploy your resources and be a benefit 163 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:05,879 to your community and your readership. 164 00:08:05,959 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: So that's what we did. 165 00:08:07,399 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 3: Just from a logistics standpoint, Kevin, it seemed like there 166 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,519 were all of a sudden, there was this lot of 167 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,040 activity because this was a major story. What do you 168 00:08:19,079 --> 00:08:24,040 do about like hotels or Airbnb? Would every motel room 169 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,360 for miles around be sold out with all the media 170 00:08:27,399 --> 00:08:29,519 people and other folks heading into town. 171 00:08:30,959 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 6: I think that was a pretty big concern for the 172 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,159 community of Moscow. It's not a huge place. City's twenty 173 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,919 five thousand people and the county is forty thousand, and 174 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,440 so I do know that some journalists were staying just 175 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,519 over the state line in Pullman, and there's obviously a 176 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,840 direct correlation and relationship between those two cities revolving around 177 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,159 this case, aside from the two sister college communities. But yeah, 178 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,759 when there was this groundswell of regional and national reporters, 179 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,679 i'll use your word flooding in Yeah, most. 180 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 2: Hotel rooms were booked up. 181 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 6: I traditionally when I travel, I try to stay in Airbnb, 182 00:09:04,399 --> 00:09:06,960 and so I was able to grab those ahead of 183 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,679 court hearings and things like that. But yeah, I remember 184 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,080 it was a little difficult to get a room in 185 00:09:11,799 --> 00:09:14,960 the first few weeks. And I think that's the part 186 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,039 why not only did it make sense, and I'm not 187 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,639 advocating one way or the other, but that was a 188 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,720 concern about whether or not the city of Moscow could 189 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,600 even handle if the trial did happen up there, And 190 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,720 so logistically speaking, it made a lot more sense for Boise. 191 00:09:29,879 --> 00:09:32,360 That's where people fly into Idaho for the most part, 192 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,480 and for all these witnesses we were anticipating for a 193 00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:38,559 trial that now never happens, but families coming down and 194 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,840 all that, and even the size of the courtroom, it 195 00:09:40,919 --> 00:09:42,559 just made a lot of sense. That Boyse would have 196 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,879 handled that the capital city rather than it was tiny 197 00:09:44,919 --> 00:09:46,960 place most people had never heard of before. 198 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,279 Speaker 5: So for anybody who has not worked in journalism, tell 199 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,440 us a little bit about the process of when you 200 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,519 actually get out of the newsroom and go to a 201 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,200 scene to report a story. Where are you going? Where 202 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,360 you going to the King Road residence? Are you going 203 00:10:02,399 --> 00:10:04,960 to the police station, to the university, to the court? 204 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:05,519 Speaker 2: Like? 205 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 3: Where are you going? 206 00:10:06,399 --> 00:10:08,399 Speaker 5: And how much time are you spending on the ground 207 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,320 versus how much time like back in your airbnb writing 208 00:10:11,399 --> 00:10:12,080 up your stories. 209 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: Give us a little breakdown about that. 210 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 6: Sure, when I went to travel up there, I would 211 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,840 split between either flying directly to the Pullman Moscow Airport, 212 00:10:21,039 --> 00:10:24,480 which is located right there in Pullman, or I flew 213 00:10:24,519 --> 00:10:26,720 into Spokane once and drove in for the purposes of 214 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,080 trying to meet with some sources. Also, that's that logistic 215 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:30,840 And I've also driven back and forth as well. And 216 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,039 it's a harry road one way or one lane each direction, 217 00:10:34,279 --> 00:10:36,519 a lot of areas with no guardbrails, and in the 218 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,360 winter that's not ideal. That's outside of hope for you 219 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,159 in some regards. But there is no newsroom. Once you 220 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,080 are out on the ground and three hundred miles north. 221 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,879 But so much is done anymore where we have virtual 222 00:10:47,919 --> 00:10:50,320 meetings and we're on zoom right now. That's how a 223 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,559 lot gets done. But in terms of what I was 224 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,240 doing on the ground, yes, I spent more time than 225 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,519 I can even think over, maybe even want to remember, 226 00:10:57,759 --> 00:11:00,720 in front of that home and meeting with there's a 227 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,000 couple of neighboring apartment complexes, just door knocking, that sort 228 00:11:04,039 --> 00:11:06,120 of thing. I did spend time at the police station, 229 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:11,159 meeting with the public information officers for the police department 230 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:12,759 and actually for the incident too. 231 00:11:12,879 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 2: There was a. 232 00:11:14,279 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 6: Basically a crisis level public information officer who was shared 233 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,799 from Idaho State Police and really had to help the 234 00:11:21,879 --> 00:11:25,879 small department manage the level of media and public inquiry 235 00:11:25,919 --> 00:11:28,639 about this case. It was I've used the word term overwhelming, 236 00:11:28,639 --> 00:11:29,600 but I'm certain it was. 237 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 2: So. 238 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 6: Yeah, sometime at the police station, which is not that 239 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,919 far from the crime scene which that home got knocked 240 00:11:37,919 --> 00:11:41,639 down in December of twenty three. But yeah, so time 241 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,320 there and just moving around the community at Moscow has 242 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,039 a smaller downtown area and I was just talking with 243 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,360 regular folks too, man on the street, kind of stuff 244 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,279 where I'd go to the local coffee shop and I'd 245 00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:53,679 overhear somebody talking about it, or I want to ask 246 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,399 the barista kind of the impact on the community, those 247 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,000 sorts of things you're moving around about the community, And yeah, 248 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,600 I was writing from the airbnb and filing stories and 249 00:12:02,639 --> 00:12:04,879 working through edits and on the phone with my editors 250 00:12:04,919 --> 00:12:07,679 and making sure we're all buttoned up and getting. 251 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 2: Those stories out as soon as we could. 252 00:12:09,799 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 6: So that's a, I guess the short of it in 253 00:12:12,639 --> 00:12:16,159 terms of how we once we're on a scene, trying 254 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,759 to develop leads and sourcing and all that, and then 255 00:12:18,879 --> 00:12:22,159 you're compiling it all and shipping it off and getting 256 00:12:22,159 --> 00:12:23,240 it online. 257 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:28,399 Speaker 3: So who's coordinating the assignments is You're obviously an experienced 258 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,480 newspaper reporter. You've done a lot of writing for a 259 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,879 number of different papers around the country. You don't probably 260 00:12:36,039 --> 00:12:39,840 need a lot of direction, but it's got to be 261 00:12:39,879 --> 00:12:41,759 a little bit of a traffic jam. One of the 262 00:12:41,799 --> 00:12:44,519 things that Kristin and I noticed is that, in addition 263 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:48,960 to your byline, which we've read numerous times, we've seen 264 00:12:49,039 --> 00:12:53,480 a number of other reporters who also covered the story. 265 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:58,320 Who coordinates the coverage, so that if yours is the 266 00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:01,240 day to do the man in the street interviews or 267 00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:04,440 go talk to the baristas, and somebody else is going 268 00:13:04,519 --> 00:13:09,440 to be, let's say, at Moscow PD, who is coordinating 269 00:13:09,519 --> 00:13:11,919 those schedules and handing out the assignment. 270 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 6: We work in a pretty modern newsroom, and so it's 271 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,440 more of a two way street. I know people are 272 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:25,399 probably familiar with movies where you've got some tough as 273 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,159 nails editors saying give me this by five o'clock for 274 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,720 that kind of thing, and that's not really you know 275 00:13:30,759 --> 00:13:33,080 that there are nesom that's newsrooms that certainly still work 276 00:13:33,159 --> 00:13:36,320 like that, but we have pretty thoughtful editors. It's a 277 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,080 more holistic approach, and so while we might get assignments 278 00:13:39,639 --> 00:13:42,240 in the traditional sense, it's often hey see what you 279 00:13:42,279 --> 00:13:45,039 can figure out. We're thinking, we want to talk to 280 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,600 the police, We're looking for answers to these types of questions. 281 00:13:47,639 --> 00:13:49,519 It's more direction like that, and then I might go 282 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,039 sift around and if I get some great interview with 283 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,279 a neighbor who happened to hear something which actually is 284 00:13:54,279 --> 00:13:56,720 something that happened, I'm going back to my editors and saying, hey, 285 00:13:56,759 --> 00:13:57,720 I spoke to this neighbor. 286 00:13:57,799 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 2: He says he heard this. He typically see. He was 287 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:01,840 actually up at the time. 288 00:14:01,639 --> 00:14:05,279 Speaker 6: That police believed this happened, and they're like, great, put 289 00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:07,480 this together, and you think you can have it to 290 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,159 us by three whatever, And we're just trying to I 291 00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:14,039 guess triage to some extent. You obviously have priorities and 292 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:15,639 things like that. But I can remember when I was 293 00:14:15,759 --> 00:14:18,000 up in Moscow and my colleague Angela was there too. 294 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,639 We either pair up on something, or she might go 295 00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:23,879 to the police station or some makeshift press conference and 296 00:14:23,879 --> 00:14:26,600 I might be on the other side of town writing 297 00:14:26,679 --> 00:14:28,360 up the story or waiting for her to phone in 298 00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:30,320 some information to me so I can add it to 299 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:35,559 the piece. It's highly collaborative, it's very self directed, and it's, 300 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,799 like I said, very holistic in approach on how we 301 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,480 do that here at the Idaho Statesman. 302 00:14:41,799 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 5: You know, three years is a long time to be 303 00:14:44,519 --> 00:14:47,759 covering a story, especially a story that is it's very 304 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:49,759 much at the heart of this community and it is 305 00:14:50,279 --> 00:14:55,519 very emotionally charged and upsetting. Were there ever times when 306 00:14:55,559 --> 00:14:58,799 you had difficulty kind of shutting off your emotions about 307 00:14:58,799 --> 00:15:02,600 it and just reporting How personal did this become for 308 00:15:02,679 --> 00:15:05,399 you after three years of doing this kind of end 309 00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:06,080 up reporting. 310 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,279 Speaker 2: It's challenging work. Certainly. 311 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 6: I think I'm one of these people who probably buries 312 00:15:13,759 --> 00:15:18,600 myself in work when there's personal challenges or based around 313 00:15:18,639 --> 00:15:22,159 the content or subject matter. I don't recall specifically having 314 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:29,679 any issues getting stories out. I know, what's this headliner 315 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,360 of a storyline for students. 316 00:15:32,039 --> 00:15:32,799 Speaker 2: Stab to death? 317 00:15:33,039 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 6: And I think there's some distance there because you've got 318 00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:38,799 to put your hard head on and go to work 319 00:15:38,799 --> 00:15:41,039 to some extent. And it's not to say we become 320 00:15:41,039 --> 00:15:45,399 desensitized to these things, but that's the job and it's 321 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,240 not the same as being a first responder, but I 322 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,240 can feel that way sometimes, and there is trauma that 323 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,960 you take in and there's a lot more I think 324 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,639 talk about that sort of thing in journalism anymore, to 325 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,159 be aware. And even I had a conversation after the 326 00:15:58,159 --> 00:16:00,840 sentencing hearing last week with the former police chief who 327 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,840 came down for that hearing, and we were talking about 328 00:16:04,399 --> 00:16:08,080 we had this moment together, and he had said, you've 329 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,120 been on this for almost three years. Of course this 330 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,320 is going to feel personal, and we're also going to 331 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,960 feel this trauma from these various communities, whether it was 332 00:16:15,039 --> 00:16:17,600 Moscow or Pullman, or, like I said, the Pocono Mountains. 333 00:16:17,639 --> 00:16:20,279 When I went out to Coburger's in the community where 334 00:16:20,279 --> 00:16:22,840 I grew up. You could sense it there too, when 335 00:16:22,879 --> 00:16:24,840 it washed over them, and it just the shock that 336 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,960 this incident from across the country had shown up to 337 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,279 their doorstep. But I don't recall anything as far as 338 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,000 an inability to put my fingers on the keys or 339 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,440 something like that. I will say that in more recent weeks, 340 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,720 and maybe in the last month, as it became very real, 341 00:16:38,759 --> 00:16:40,720 as we were getting much closer to the reality of 342 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,840 a trial and emotions running high, whether it was the 343 00:16:43,879 --> 00:16:46,840 families of the victims or there were two roommates who 344 00:16:46,879 --> 00:16:49,919 survived this incident who were not physically attacked. Seeing that 345 00:16:50,039 --> 00:16:52,399 up close and personal, including at the sentencing hearing, was 346 00:16:52,679 --> 00:16:56,159 just brutal and not something I was really prepared for. 347 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,639 But I'd say, besides that, it was another day at work. 348 00:17:00,679 --> 00:17:04,160 But yeah, that has been more challenging. And another example 349 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,559 I would give you is that the plea hearing, I 350 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,839 by chance was seated right behind Brian Coberger's parents and 351 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,680 just crushing to watch them go through. 352 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 3: Then oh, well, could you hear them if they talked 353 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:18,359 back and forth. 354 00:17:19,279 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 6: They were in the first row and kind of seated 355 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,880 directly to his right. Just that corpse setup is unique. 356 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,720 But they may have whispered a few things to each other. 357 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:29,480 They were in the first row, I think I was 358 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,519 maybe in the second row and over to the left. 359 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,920 I think was how that worked out. I couldn't hear. 360 00:17:34,759 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 3: Them, but you could see them pretty clearly, yes, And 361 00:17:38,519 --> 00:17:40,680 my god, what must they be going through? 362 00:17:40,759 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 2: Right? 363 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 6: It was just they didn't have to say a word. 364 00:17:44,519 --> 00:17:46,400 I didn't have to hear anything they said. You could 365 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,519 just see. It was utter devastation. 366 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,039 Speaker 3: So in the room from the Coburger family, that was 367 00:17:53,079 --> 00:17:56,400 his mother, father, and sister as well. 368 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 2: So he has two older sisters. 369 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 6: The father not attend sentencing instead it was the mother again, 370 00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:05,799 and then one of his sisters attended as well. And 371 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:08,960 I was not in the physically in the courtroom for 372 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,599 the sentencing hearing, which was my colleague Alex Brizzy, ar 373 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,440 course reporter, because seceeding was very tight, but she described 374 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,920 something very similar that they were just broken up and 375 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:22,039 sobbing at points, a very charged room and incredibly emotional 376 00:18:22,079 --> 00:18:25,160 and say what you will, obviously about the defendant who 377 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,119 has pleaded guilty to these terrific murders. He still has family, 378 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,279 and they showed up for him. And I don't want 379 00:18:32,279 --> 00:18:33,799 to say they faced the music as well, but I 380 00:18:33,839 --> 00:18:36,000 think they in their support of him. 381 00:18:35,799 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 2: Just as a person and as a. 382 00:18:37,799 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 6: Loved one of theirs, they faced a significant brunt of 383 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:41,599 those emotions too. 384 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, we talked about this on Mind over Murder last week. 385 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:50,839 I was shocked at how much online vitriol I saw 386 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,200 aimed at his family, and I said to Kristin, it's 387 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,880 one thing to be angry, furious, even wished death upon 388 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:03,839 and someone like Brian Coberger, who's at this point admitted 389 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,960 his involvement in this horrible quadruple murder. I just don't 390 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:16,200 get the focus on his family. For example, I don't 391 00:19:16,279 --> 00:19:21,119 see how you can blame his parents, or his sisters, 392 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:28,200 or anyone from the Coburger clan for what this man 393 00:19:28,319 --> 00:19:31,440 has done. They're not responsible for any of this stuff. 394 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:37,559 Did you get a sense of anger being directed towards 395 00:19:38,039 --> 00:19:41,000 the family or did people mostly leave them alone? 396 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 6: I think from the outside community, certainly the victims' family 397 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,240 members did not blame the Coburgers, and I don't think 398 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,799 there was correspondence or any level of communication those directions 399 00:19:53,839 --> 00:19:57,680 the Coburgers very initially issued. The family issued a statement 400 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,319 through the Public Defender in Pennsylvania, and they asked for 401 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,839 privacy in this incredibly difficult time. They shared their their 402 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,039 deep concerns and feelings for the victim's families, not knowing 403 00:20:09,079 --> 00:20:11,880 if their son was involved or not. But he was 404 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:17,200 obviously arrested and accused and subsequently charged and has now 405 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,119 admitted that it was him, But at the time they 406 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,359 didn't know. They were just confused. Their home had been 407 00:20:21,799 --> 00:20:24,160 rated by the FBI and the Pennsylvania State Police at 408 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,920 one point thirty in the morning, and unbeknownst to them, 409 00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:29,640 they were brought into the national spotlight over this too. 410 00:20:29,799 --> 00:20:32,319 So I think largely they were left alone. I do 411 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,200 know that there was some paparazzi type media outlets that 412 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,319 would end up in their gated community and snap photos 413 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,160 whenever they could, which that's not the type of journalism, 414 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,799 if you can call that journalism, It's not the type 415 00:20:43,839 --> 00:20:47,160 of journalism we're involved or invested in. We in fact 416 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,319 go the other way and try to be very respectful 417 00:20:49,319 --> 00:20:52,920 about these things. But I think again early in from 418 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,319 the public standpoint, there were a lot of questions about 419 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,720 what they may know or what thoughts they might have 420 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,559 had about whether or not they're or brothers was capable 421 00:21:01,559 --> 00:21:04,359 of this, and so I think that was more of 422 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,000 the question. But yeah, the vitriol is a good word. 423 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:07,519 Speaker 2: I think we. 424 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,519 Speaker 6: See anonymous accounts on Twitter or x I guess now 425 00:21:11,599 --> 00:21:14,599 and Facebook and people having so many questions and their suspicions. 426 00:21:14,599 --> 00:21:16,759 They must have known, right he drove back with his 427 00:21:16,839 --> 00:21:18,960 father across the country in the vehicle that he had 428 00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:21,359 driven to the home, and they must have talked about 429 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,720 that over the four day trip, or how could they 430 00:21:23,759 --> 00:21:26,279 not know because of his bizarre behavior at home where 431 00:21:26,319 --> 00:21:28,640 he's separating his trash and wearing gloves. They must have 432 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,559 known that he was involved. And I think we've learned 433 00:21:31,599 --> 00:21:36,559 quite the contrary. They had no idea and are emotionally devastated, 434 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,039 as I mentioned, having seen them. 435 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:38,519 Speaker 2: In the courtroom. 436 00:21:39,519 --> 00:21:41,799 Speaker 5: I want to branch off, just real briefly to something 437 00:21:41,839 --> 00:21:43,559 that you just mentioned. You were talking a little bit 438 00:21:43,559 --> 00:21:46,039 about this concept of the paparazzi, which of course we're 439 00:21:46,079 --> 00:21:48,519 all very familiar with, but also in the last couple 440 00:21:48,559 --> 00:21:50,519 of years, there have been these sort of new types 441 00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:53,440 of journalists, and I'm just going to do air quotes 442 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,240 around them because I'm not sure how to apply that term. 443 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,160 But you've got the rise of true crime influencers who 444 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,839 have tiktoks and YouTube channels and things like that. You also, 445 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,480 of course have podcasters like us, but I don't think 446 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,240 we take up that much space. A lot of these 447 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,640 influencers will sometimes come to crime scenes to report on 448 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,240 these crimes. Were there ever times when you found yourself 449 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,359 or your colleagues competing with them for attention or for space? 450 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,640 Tell us how you feel about this new breed of 451 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,400 true crime journalism that has arisen over the last couple 452 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:26,920 of years. 453 00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 3: When we use the term influencer, Yeah, I don't. 454 00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 6: Know that they necessarily consider themselves journalists. And that's this 455 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,400 idea that if everybody's a journalist, nobody's a journalist. 456 00:22:37,519 --> 00:22:39,279 Speaker 2: Yeah. 457 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 6: I think we used to refer to people like this 458 00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:43,920 as bloggers, but that's all motives maybe now anyway, I'm 459 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,000 dating myself a little bit, but yeah, even to the 460 00:22:48,039 --> 00:22:51,319 extent that's the judge down here in Boise was not 461 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,920 going to make decisions about who was a journalist and 462 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,119 who was not, and so they reserved no seats. There 463 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,279 was actually one toward the end that they committed to 464 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,200 a establish news outlet out of North Idaho. They were 465 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,920 going to allow one guaranteed seat and no others. They 466 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,200 just treated everybody from the public as the public, and 467 00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:11,559 so it was a scramble to get in, including for 468 00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:12,920 sentencing and the plea hearing. 469 00:23:13,519 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 3: So even for long time legitimate news sources like the 470 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,039 Idaho Statesman, there were no reserved seats. 471 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,279 Speaker 6: No, not even for the Associated Press, a bureau chief 472 00:23:26,319 --> 00:23:28,359 here in Boise. That was just how they chose to 473 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,759 go about it. And for trial, they were planning to 474 00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:32,880 do a lottery systems like Ticketmaster. 475 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 2: You got to get on it at noon each day 476 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:35,559 and click the. 477 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 6: Button and hope you get the email to guarantee your 478 00:23:37,759 --> 00:23:40,880 seat for the next day. But that never went into effect, 479 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,319 and so it became first come, first served, and it 480 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,759 was I spent part of an overnight ahead of the 481 00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:48,279 sensing hearing because so many true crime folks, just people 482 00:23:48,279 --> 00:23:50,599 who follow this and want to show up as if 483 00:23:50,599 --> 00:23:53,319 it's a sporting event, and from across the country, they 484 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,960 flew in and waited in line overnight, and my colleagues 485 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,839 and I traded shifts so that we could ensure we 486 00:23:57,839 --> 00:24:00,200 were able to secure one seat, and we weren't clear 487 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:00,880 how many seats. 488 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:01,319 Speaker 2: There would even be. 489 00:24:01,559 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 6: It is the largest courtroom at the courthouse down here 490 00:24:04,519 --> 00:24:07,319 in Boise, but we didn't know how many there would 491 00:24:07,319 --> 00:24:09,119 even be available to the public because we weren't sure 492 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,039 how many members of the victim's families were going to 493 00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:13,319 be there. It certainly a small number of seats. I 494 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,160 want to say, maybe it was twenty five or maybe 495 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,039 up to thirty five or how many got in. And 496 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,240 media is here from across the country, and those people saying, 497 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,839 what do you mean we can't get in? You know, 498 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,640 what do you mean even at four a m. If 499 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,160 we show up, we don't have a not a guaranteed seat, 500 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,720 but the likelihood we would get in, and so many 501 00:24:27,759 --> 00:24:30,160 people got to shut out. Yeah, in terms of the 502 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,160 I don't know the blogger, I'll just call them it 503 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,240 is rising the TikTokers. One actually is being sued by 504 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,680 a University of Idaho professor over the fact that she 505 00:24:37,759 --> 00:24:40,480 claimed that she was involved in the incident, and that's 506 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,240 actually ongoing. Is a federal case, wow, a defamation case, 507 00:24:44,279 --> 00:24:46,519 and she was a some sort of fortune teller and 508 00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:49,119 claimed that through her tarot readings she knew that this 509 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,920 woman was responsible. And so there's an ongoing defamation case 510 00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:54,680 here in Idaho over that. 511 00:24:54,839 --> 00:24:57,279 Speaker 2: But yeah, it's I think. 512 00:24:57,519 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 6: It probably is a slow not that slow, but a 513 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,559 winnowing a way of people understanding legitimate sources of information. 514 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,559 That's how I think rumor was everywhere in this case. 515 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,759 Part of that was that police kept things close to 516 00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:14,039 the best and they weren't answering a lot of questions, 517 00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:15,200 so then rumors developed. 518 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 3: But yeah, they begin to fill the space. 519 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,839 Speaker 6: Yeah, but this case I think is particularly unique in 520 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,000 that way. We really saw how social media can work 521 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,160 both directions in terms of the spreading of just outright falsehoods, 522 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,240 and a lot of people's names were sullied. And before 523 00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:33,559 they caught Koberger, there were a lot of rumors about 524 00:25:33,599 --> 00:25:36,400 who might be responsible, and all the internet sleuths were 525 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,799 looking at videos and different things like that, who's that 526 00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:40,759 guy in the hoodie? And I don't like the way 527 00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:42,839 that guy looked at them? What's he got going on? 528 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,200 False accusations? Ultimately that people's names were floated. 529 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,079 Speaker 3: You're listening to Mind over Murder, We'll be right back 530 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:57,680 after this word from our sponsors, we're back here at 531 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:58,640 mindover Murder. 532 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,039 Speaker 6: I think that's what's lost with these types of things 533 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,359 is the vetting. It doesn't mean that these are I 534 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,839 don't carry some sort of identification card or certificate that 535 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,119 I'm an established journalist or something. But there is a 536 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,720 practice and it is a profession, and there are ethics involved, 537 00:26:14,759 --> 00:26:16,880 and all that goes out the window as far as 538 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,559 I've seen, and with people who claim to either be 539 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,000 journalists or want to be out on the ground and 540 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,480 make sure they're videotaping the police at the scene and 541 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,440 what are they doing and riling people up about something 542 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:28,319 that's not reality. 543 00:26:29,079 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 3: Was there ever a time during this case where social 544 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,160 media was helpful to you as opposed to a hindrance. 545 00:26:37,599 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. 546 00:26:38,799 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 6: I was tracking this case very closely, and in fact 547 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,359 many other people were too. There's a Facebook group that 548 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,480 developed specific to the case, and I would get ideas 549 00:26:47,519 --> 00:26:50,759 from that. People would post something I hadn't considered yet, 550 00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:52,839 so it certainly was a resource. 551 00:26:52,319 --> 00:26:53,039 Speaker 2: In many ways. 552 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 6: I'm vetting things, obviously, but there would be some new 553 00:26:56,079 --> 00:26:59,079 document that somebody stumbled across because there were people committing 554 00:26:59,079 --> 00:27:01,160 their lives to this case in many ways, and so 555 00:27:01,559 --> 00:27:05,400 it's a crowdsource concept that was pretty useful. But I 556 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,039 could see what was out there, or I would even 557 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:09,400 see competitors' news stories that would get posted, and I 558 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,079 would say, oh, gosh, I got to jump on that, 559 00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:13,119 or I've got something on that too, or I need 560 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,200 to make a phone call to check that, and we 561 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,839 either write a story that dispels whatever got published by 562 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,079 somewhere like People magazine, and they had a lot of 563 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,839 stories with rumors really and many things that were proven 564 00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:25,039 to not be true. But in another example, we were 565 00:27:25,079 --> 00:27:28,200 the first news outlet to publish a story about a 566 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,680 k bar knife with something specific that police were searching for. 567 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,640 And our opinion editor actually was just tracking Twitter again 568 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,039 acts I guess it was Twitter then, and somebody had 569 00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:41,799 posted in a comments section on a story that had 570 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,279 gone out from the Idaho States and Twitter handle and 571 00:27:44,319 --> 00:27:46,240 it said, hey, you guys should check this out. I 572 00:27:46,279 --> 00:27:50,519 saw police in Moscow visiting these various retail stores. 573 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 2: I wonder what they're looking for. 574 00:27:52,319 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 6: Just with that little piece of information, I relaid that 575 00:27:55,079 --> 00:27:57,680 up to Angela Parlanermo, who was up there are boots 576 00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,039 on the ground at that time, and I said, hey, 577 00:27:59,039 --> 00:28:01,240 go check out this hard store or sporting goods store 578 00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:03,440 or whatever it was, and go see what police were 579 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,480 asking them about. And sure enough she went in. She 580 00:28:05,559 --> 00:28:08,359 spoke to the general manager and he explained, they asked 581 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,920 me about this specific brand of knife to sell, right 582 00:28:12,759 --> 00:28:15,759 a k bar combat knife, and we don't sell it, 583 00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:17,279 but I have to know a lot about him, and 584 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,200 so he told her all about Oh yeah, they had 585 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,079 all these questions for us, and they came back more 586 00:28:21,079 --> 00:28:23,200 than once to ask about and we were the first 587 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,720 to publish the story that identified the police were looking 588 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,000 for this specific type of knife. We later learned it's 589 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,200 because the leather sheath for this fixed played knife was 590 00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:33,359 left at the crime scene and police didn't want to 591 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,000 talk about it then, but it was absolutely factual, and 592 00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:38,559 we were the first publication in the country to have 593 00:28:38,599 --> 00:28:39,960 any of that information out. 594 00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 3: How does law enforcement respond when a major newspaper like 595 00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:47,920 the Idaho Statesman runs a story like that, which is 596 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,599 maybe you're getting out in front of the story. How 597 00:28:52,599 --> 00:28:53,960 do they respond? 598 00:28:55,799 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 6: I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist here. In fact, Angela, 599 00:29:02,799 --> 00:29:04,759 that was the first. So when we reported that story, 600 00:29:04,759 --> 00:29:07,079 it was right before the very first press conference that 601 00:29:07,119 --> 00:29:08,480 they were going to hold, and that was three and 602 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,599 a half days into this incident, which the police chief 603 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,319 even to this day will tell you he regrets that 604 00:29:12,359 --> 00:29:14,000 he didn't hold one sooner and he took a ton 605 00:29:14,039 --> 00:29:16,279 of heat over it. Yeah, but and he opened that 606 00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:18,640 the press conference saying, I probably should have been here 607 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,200 a day ago, but I'm here now. And that was 608 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,960 his answer. But I've talked to him several times. He's 609 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,759 a real good guy and he's That was one of 610 00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:26,640 my first missteps, and I've learned from it, and that 611 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,799 was a mistake. But the conspiracy theorist in me believes 612 00:29:29,839 --> 00:29:32,599 that they intentionally shut my colleague out of that press 613 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,359 conference initially really because we had just reported the story 614 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,599 and she would have been the one to ask, hey, 615 00:29:39,599 --> 00:29:43,200 we were around the corner and this general manager, and 616 00:29:43,279 --> 00:29:45,759 it never got asked because she was told that it 617 00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:47,400 was all full and we could even see on the 618 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,000 live stream that there were open seats and. 619 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,799 Speaker 3: Wow, so she got the straight arm. 620 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:54,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's a conspiracy. 621 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 6: They did eventually let her in, but we had to 622 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,799 contact the university to say they're not letting us in. 623 00:29:58,839 --> 00:30:01,799 This is unbelievable, and she got in but then didn't 624 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,000 get an opportunity. 625 00:30:02,559 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 2: To ask a question. 626 00:30:03,519 --> 00:30:08,039 Speaker 6: But I think we're generally, universally, I don't think law 627 00:30:08,119 --> 00:30:11,200 enforcement was thrilled that we had that information. And when 628 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,640 we went back to them later on to ask, hey, 629 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,920 you didn't want to respond specifically to the idea that 630 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,920 it was a k bar and that you were sending 631 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,839 your officers to these various businesses locally to see if 632 00:30:21,839 --> 00:30:25,079 they'd sold this particular type of weapon. And even then 633 00:30:25,119 --> 00:30:27,240 I was told by the public information officer, but we 634 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,240 don't know that it was specific to that brand, and 635 00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:31,920 we were asking about a group of knives, and now 636 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:32,440 we all. 637 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 3: Know that's that was not true because it was totally untrue. 638 00:30:36,359 --> 00:30:39,759 The cover which we've seen, the sheath, we've seen pictures 639 00:30:39,759 --> 00:30:43,720 of it's very clearly for a specific kind of knife. 640 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,000 But they didn't want to admit any of that at 641 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:46,440 that point. 642 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:47,759 Speaker 2: No, even that was. 643 00:30:47,839 --> 00:30:50,119 Speaker 6: Mid December, I think by the time I had that conversation, 644 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:51,839 so that would have been even a month later, and 645 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,799 they didn't want to acknowledge that they were looking at 646 00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:57,319 a specific brand, but we knew it was a I 647 00:30:57,359 --> 00:30:59,680 think the corner put out information it was a large 648 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,599 fixed blade knife, but I don't think they were too 649 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,839 committed to the brand at that time. And then all 650 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,160 of that came out when the probable cause affidavit for 651 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,079 Koberger's arrest was released in early January, and of course 652 00:31:11,119 --> 00:31:12,119 we knew we had nailed it. 653 00:31:12,519 --> 00:31:17,759 Speaker 3: Speaking of that document, a number of people, ourselves included, 654 00:31:18,079 --> 00:31:21,279 were aware of the fact that they were using investigative 655 00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:25,119 genetic penealogy, and we knew the people that behind the 656 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,759 scenes that were doing the work. Were you struck by 657 00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:33,319 the fact that the probable cause document did not contain 658 00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:37,200 any reference to the fact that they were using investigative 659 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:38,279 genetic genealogy. 660 00:31:39,079 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 6: I should have been calling you guys, because it sounds 661 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,480 like you had the sourcing we did. 662 00:31:43,839 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 5: We did. 663 00:31:44,359 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 3: We did not say anything, probably we. 664 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 5: Didn't say anything about it on the POD, but we 665 00:31:48,079 --> 00:31:49,680 had it quite in advance. 666 00:31:50,079 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 2: Was this off from the UF, Yes, it was. 667 00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:55,559 Speaker 3: Yes, They've done a lot of work with us, and 668 00:31:57,559 --> 00:31:59,960 so we knew a lot about what was going on 669 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,079 going on inside certain aspects of the investigation. 670 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,359 Speaker 6: Sure, it was beyond rumor that this had happened, and 671 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,720 if they were using this advanced technique or technology. 672 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 2: Whatever you want to consider it. 673 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 6: And Slate was actually the first one to put a 674 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,440 story out about this, this fight. I remember that, yeah, yeah, 675 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,400 I'm failing to recall the writer's name, but it was 676 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,759 a beautiful piece and it was like, dang, like how 677 00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:25,640 did they get this? New York Times wrote a piece 678 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,599 to my friend Mike Baker, who we went toe to 679 00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:31,640 toe over the course of all this. He's an amazing reporter, 680 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,400 and he had some reference to it, I think early 681 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:34,880 in as well. 682 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:35,799 Speaker 2: But we just couldn't get it. 683 00:32:35,799 --> 00:32:39,799 Speaker 6: We couldn't verify it, and sure we could cite news 684 00:32:39,799 --> 00:32:42,240 outlets or whatever, but we just we couldn't get it. 685 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,000 I couldn't figure out a way into the FBI. I 686 00:32:44,039 --> 00:32:47,359 just don't have anonymous FBI sourcing an offer wasn't talking 687 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,279 and their name didn't even float out too early into it, 688 00:32:50,359 --> 00:32:52,759 and then it was still months. It was six or 689 00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:56,640 seven months, if I'm recalling correctly. Before the prosecution during 690 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:01,079 the legal proceedings, acknowledged that this was the initial way 691 00:33:01,079 --> 00:33:03,480 in which law enforcement landed on them, and this of 692 00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:06,759 course set off this huge constitutional question and govern all 693 00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:07,640 this very closely. 694 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 2: Is this legitimate? 695 00:33:09,559 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 6: And Edberger's defense team made a lot of hay out 696 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,839 of it, but it eventually was thrown out as being 697 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,119 a constitutional rights issue, But it didn't mean they weren't 698 00:33:18,119 --> 00:33:20,599 going to try so in terms of not having been 699 00:33:20,599 --> 00:33:23,599 in the problem cause, Affid David, it was confusing. I 700 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,400 came to learn over the course of my reporting that 701 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,319 they're putting everything. 702 00:33:28,279 --> 00:33:29,759 Speaker 2: They have into a people content. 703 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,039 Speaker 3: It's not a full laundry list of everything they've worked on. 704 00:33:33,599 --> 00:33:36,519 Speaker 6: They're putting what they need to in order to justify 705 00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:40,359 the arrest, and that was understood. I think not putting 706 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,519 it in there is it disingenuous? I don't know, but 707 00:33:43,839 --> 00:33:45,759 I think once you knew that it was absent from it, 708 00:33:45,759 --> 00:33:48,440 you could read the document and better understand. But it 709 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,799 was a little bit of a leap logically to understand 710 00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:52,759 how they went from hey, we have this vehicle to 711 00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:55,599 suddenly we've got the phone, to suddenly we've got these 712 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,400 other elements and the DNA connection. 713 00:33:57,559 --> 00:34:01,319 Speaker 2: But it was like something's missing here. Yes, they knew 714 00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:03,240 it was I'm sorry, go ahead. 715 00:34:03,599 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 6: Once you knew it was absent, you knew exactly how 716 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,559 this all this all came down. But again it wasn't 717 00:34:08,599 --> 00:34:11,480 for seven months later as the defense sought all these 718 00:34:11,519 --> 00:34:15,039 records through discovery through the FBI and offer him and 719 00:34:15,039 --> 00:34:19,719 so forth through the state, but we had no confirmation 720 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,519 until that finally came out. And then so the problem 721 00:34:23,599 --> 00:34:26,239 cause EFFI dated was maybe a little confusing, but it 722 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,239 didn't rattle me at the time, but certainly it was 723 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,039 like the absence of a key detail is in there, 724 00:34:32,119 --> 00:34:34,480 and it was important that I think the prosecution acknowledge 725 00:34:34,519 --> 00:34:36,559 eventually that there was the initial way that they had 726 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,519 heard his name, and then they reverse engineered the investigation 727 00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:42,000 to figure out where he was and where. 728 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 2: His car was, et cetera. 729 00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 3: Even now in the past two weeks, I think and 730 00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:52,679 I think this the skipping of certain key steps in 731 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:58,920 the probable cause document to this day I think creates 732 00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:05,800 confusion because there were all of these logical leaps involved 733 00:35:06,159 --> 00:35:10,239 with the We identified the car and we saw the 734 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,760 white Hyundai, and then it was the wrong year. But 735 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:22,039 they were glossing over key, really essential developments that had 736 00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:26,239 taken place. In my opinion, and Offroms never confirmed this, 737 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,280 but I probably could get them to say it now. 738 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,719 I think it was DNA first car second. But even 739 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,039 to this day I see reporting not with your name 740 00:35:37,119 --> 00:35:43,320 on it that it seems to indicate that the Hyundai Lantra, 741 00:35:43,559 --> 00:35:48,239 the white car which showed up in various videos shot 742 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:53,760 around town. That that's key. I actually think they already 743 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,960 knew who he was before they started looking at the car, 744 00:35:58,119 --> 00:36:00,559 but I think that it there there was a lot 745 00:36:00,599 --> 00:36:03,840 of confusion, which remains part of the mix to this day. 746 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 6: Yeah, the way that worked, Washington State University campus police 747 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,599 went and looked at all the vehicles that were permitted 748 00:36:13,639 --> 00:36:16,239 by the university, and his happened to be one of them, 749 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,599 and so he was thrown onto a list that would 750 00:36:18,639 --> 00:36:21,760 have been reviewed again later. So there was one one 751 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,360 officer who was looking at this in a computer. There 752 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,440 was one officer separately and I think unaffiliated with what 753 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,119 that officer had done the first one. The second one 754 00:36:31,159 --> 00:36:34,880 was just moving around campus for student parking permits and 755 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,119 also came across that vehicle. What's interesting is that Moscow 756 00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:42,480 police had initially issued a be on the lookout at 757 00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:45,639 Bolo for a white Hondai Lantra years twenty eleven to 758 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,639 twenty thirteen Brian Koberger's cars at twenty fifteen, and Moscow 759 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,559 police never and what they asked for were any tips, 760 00:36:52,639 --> 00:36:54,239 just send them in. We want to look at all 761 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,360 these vehicles were going through vehicle registration in three or 762 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,440 four different states and there were tens of thousands of 763 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,480 these vehicles are pretty common vehicle, which, again from a 764 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,559 antop seller, yeah, from the aspect of Brian Coberger's mind, 765 00:37:07,639 --> 00:37:08,920 is one of the chances they're gonna be able to 766 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,079 pick this one. I'm sure that's people think he was 767 00:37:11,079 --> 00:37:13,000 such a fool because he drove his own vehicle, and 768 00:37:13,079 --> 00:37:15,440 I hear you, but it was a pretty common vehicle. 769 00:37:15,639 --> 00:37:19,000 So anyway, Coberger does end up on some sort of list. 770 00:37:19,039 --> 00:37:22,440 But the Washington the Poland police chief who now works 771 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,280 for Washington State University in the same role he had 772 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,360 mentioned that they had noticed this vehicle and it didn't 773 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,880 get submitted to Moscow because it was outside of the 774 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,840 year range that they had requested. So even talking with 775 00:37:34,039 --> 00:37:37,079 former Moscow Police Chief James Frye, I said, you never 776 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,800 to the public corrected that date and the FBI analysts 777 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,760 did determine that the vehicle models were similar between eleven 778 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:45,800 and sixteen. 779 00:37:46,079 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, it didn't change very much. It's just changed a 780 00:37:49,039 --> 00:37:50,960 little tail lights and stuff like that. 781 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:52,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was. 782 00:37:52,159 --> 00:37:55,119 Speaker 6: Very minor, and so they made a revision later on internally, 783 00:37:55,119 --> 00:37:57,679 but they never actually comm communicated that to the public. 784 00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,000 And so the fact that his ended up being a 785 00:37:59,039 --> 00:38:01,800 twenty fifteen, the defense pointed that out. He doesn't even 786 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,960 drive the very vehicle that law enforcement initially thought it was, 787 00:38:05,039 --> 00:38:08,639 but they had revised that date range, but they just 788 00:38:08,679 --> 00:38:09,599 never told the public. 789 00:38:09,679 --> 00:38:10,679 Speaker 2: So I think that's where you. 790 00:38:10,599 --> 00:38:13,639 Speaker 6: Get some of the vehicle misunderstandings as far as what 791 00:38:13,679 --> 00:38:17,199 they quote unquote found first, but absolutely not. It definitely 792 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,519 was confirmed later on by the prosecution that without the 793 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,280 use of IgG and the quote unquote tip that the 794 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,119 FBI sent to local and state law enforcement, they didn't 795 00:38:28,119 --> 00:38:29,679 have his name. They weren't looking at him, and they 796 00:38:29,679 --> 00:38:32,760 didn't have that name until December nineteenth. And this also 797 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,199 just very quickly, this created a lot of conspiracy theories 798 00:38:36,199 --> 00:38:39,760 about the FBI tracking him across the country as he 799 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,840 drove from Pulman to ok the Mountains with his dad, 800 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,920 and they were saying he got stopped twice within a 801 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,239 ten minute window in Indiana. 802 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:47,079 Speaker 2: What are the chances? 803 00:38:47,639 --> 00:38:50,280 Speaker 6: I followed that story and tried to dispel that rumor repeatedly. 804 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,480 The FBI told me and they were under a gaggler. 805 00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:54,119 They said, we're going to speak to this because we 806 00:38:54,159 --> 00:38:56,400 need to dispel this rumor. We had no idea who 807 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,320 he was. We absolutely were not tracking him. Local law 808 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,440 enforcement wouldn't let him leave town if they knew who 809 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,800 he was at that time. I've heard the investigator say that. 810 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,559 And so they weren't not familiar with him until December 811 00:39:06,639 --> 00:39:09,119 nineteenth because of in part that work done by Authoram 812 00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:11,599 and then the FBI on the IgG and then that's 813 00:39:11,639 --> 00:39:15,400 when they started surveilling him not long after in Pennsylvania. 814 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,760 But they had no idea his name at that time, 815 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,840 and so that's a bunch of whoy. It was a 816 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,360 drug interdiction stop back to back, and they were just 817 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:24,679 checking on who he was because he had an out 818 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,920 of sight plate estate plate and that was why. 819 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,719 Speaker 2: But seeing people who believe it. 820 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,199 Speaker 3: It did really strange at the time, especially the two 821 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,880 traffic stops minutes apart. You started to think to yourself, 822 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,800 could this be deliberate? Are they hassling him or are 823 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,360 they letting him know that he's on their radar or 824 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,119 what might it be? And it really does sound like 825 00:39:46,199 --> 00:39:48,039 it could be a coincidence. 826 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 6: Yeah, it was and I think Bill Thompson, the prosecutor, actually, 827 00:39:53,119 --> 00:39:55,159 in an interview with The New York Times last week, 828 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,239 he reiterated that it was the phrase he used was 829 00:39:58,280 --> 00:39:59,960 totally e coincidental. 830 00:40:00,039 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 3: Talk about the plea deal and the sentencing. That all 831 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:09,320 seemed to us to happen very fast. You, I think, 832 00:40:09,599 --> 00:40:11,679 along with a lot of other people, were preparing for 833 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,920 a trial and then all of a sudden, we get 834 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:19,679 this plea deal. Did that come as a surprise one percent? 835 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:21,039 Speaker 2: Yeah. 836 00:40:21,199 --> 00:40:23,760 Speaker 6: I have gotten to know a lot of the sort 837 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,800 of national journalists who have been covering this case as 838 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,760 a result of this, So that's been interesting. They're coming 839 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,159 to my home state and we interact, and I've got 840 00:40:31,159 --> 00:40:33,079 to know these people. And Brian Netton, who works for 841 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,159 News Nation, was the first to release the information. He 842 00:40:36,199 --> 00:40:38,800 posted on Twitter that a plea deal had been struck 843 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,000 and he had good sourcing that we didn't and we 844 00:40:42,039 --> 00:40:42,679 had to scramble. 845 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 2: And this is. 846 00:40:43,679 --> 00:40:46,119 Speaker 6: A it brings me full circle to some extent. But 847 00:40:46,159 --> 00:40:48,519 I happen to be in Denver trying to travel for 848 00:40:48,639 --> 00:40:51,480 vacation as we were prepping for this trial and what 849 00:40:51,519 --> 00:40:54,000 we expected to be fourteen hour days for three months 850 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,679 and I started getting text messages there's been a plea deal. 851 00:40:58,679 --> 00:40:59,559 Speaker 2: There's been a plea deal. 852 00:41:00,039 --> 00:41:02,639 Speaker 6: Actually had a conversation with Briantt and we were texting 853 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:03,519 just in the days. 854 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,800 Speaker 2: Before that, and he said, I'm starting to get this feeling. 855 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,639 Speaker 6: And he covers these big national crime cases and he said, 856 00:41:09,079 --> 00:41:10,880 I just have a feeling something's coming. And I'm like, 857 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,519 you're crazy. Is there no way what plea deal could 858 00:41:13,519 --> 00:41:15,920 they possibly strike? Why would he admit to this stuff. 859 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,280 He's been fighting this for two and a half years. 860 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,519 And the death penalty, whatever your perspective is on at 861 00:41:22,519 --> 00:41:24,800 each and every person on that. So that ended up 862 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,920 being the chip that they were able to spend in 863 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,519 order to move the ball forward. To mix some analogies. 864 00:41:29,559 --> 00:41:32,800 But yeah, we really had no idea about this. And 865 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,639 so I'm back in Denver and I'm getting all these 866 00:41:34,639 --> 00:41:37,159 text messages and I immediately called my editor and I said, 867 00:41:37,679 --> 00:41:39,320 I think this has happened. I think we have to 868 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,280 get on this. And there was no confirmation. There's a 869 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,079 gag order in place. It's not like you can call 870 00:41:43,079 --> 00:41:45,519 the prosecutor or the defense and say, hey, what's the deal. 871 00:41:46,119 --> 00:41:48,159 And so my colleague Alex Brizzy was able to get 872 00:41:48,159 --> 00:41:49,719 one of the parents and one of the victims on 873 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:54,480 the phone, and they actually on the phone were opening 874 00:41:54,559 --> 00:41:57,480 their email and realizing that this had been sent to them. 875 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,840 Oh okay, but the prosecution had sent them a letter 876 00:42:02,079 --> 00:42:03,920 informing them that this had been done. 877 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,119 Speaker 3: And they hadn't even looked at that email yet. 878 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:07,159 Speaker 2: Wow, they had not. 879 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:08,800 Speaker 6: They had sat at a meeting I think in the 880 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,559 days prior, understanding that this was the direction that it 881 00:42:11,599 --> 00:42:13,519 appeared that it would be going. How would you feel 882 00:42:13,519 --> 00:42:16,800 about that? Basically, they were pulling the room to some extent, 883 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,719 but parent had not yet actually looked at their email 884 00:42:21,039 --> 00:42:23,960 to see this. And then they read it to my 885 00:42:24,079 --> 00:42:26,440 colleague and sent a copy of it to us so 886 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,360 we could verify, and that was what we needed in 887 00:42:28,519 --> 00:42:30,400 order to move forward. And I think we were the 888 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,960 fourth to publish a story about it, but I know 889 00:42:33,079 --> 00:42:35,320 we were in the early group to receive one of 890 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,719 these letters to confirm it. And then the hearing was 891 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,719 scheduled just two days later, and before I knew it, 892 00:42:40,039 --> 00:42:41,960 I was already scheduled to travel back. But I'm lucky 893 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,760 I had my flight already booked and I'm handling breaking 894 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,719 news I scramble to get this huge piece of information out, 895 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,519 and then it was like I'm back in Boise tomorrow 896 00:42:49,559 --> 00:42:52,480 and the hearings on Wednesday, and it was a whirlwind. 897 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,400 And suddenly you're sitting next to Brian Coberger's parents and 898 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,840 watching this whole thing unfold. It was absolutely crazy. 899 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,280 Speaker 5: I know that the big quest that was on everybody's 900 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,000 mind prior to the sentencing is he going to allocute? 901 00:43:04,559 --> 00:43:08,039 Were you? I think everybody was hoping for it, and 902 00:43:08,119 --> 00:43:11,239 we knew that ultimately that was not the outcome. Judge 903 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:15,159 Hipler said something that I thought was really very insightful, 904 00:43:15,159 --> 00:43:16,880 and I liked that he said it. He said that 905 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,199 the more that we ask the why, the more agency 906 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,000 that we give him. But I still think that there 907 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,800 are plenty of people who wanted to know. Were you 908 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,880 hoping that Bran Coberger was going to allocute on the stand? 909 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,079 And I don't know what would your response have been 910 00:43:32,079 --> 00:43:33,920 if he actually got up there and sang like the 911 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:34,920 proverbial canary. 912 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 2: Certainly, there are so. 913 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,480 Speaker 6: Many un answered questions in this case, and the only 914 00:43:39,519 --> 00:43:41,440 person who knows that the answer is just Bran Kober 915 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,280 and whether or not he will ever talk or he's 916 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:48,679 a pretty educated person. I've never spoken to him directly, obviously, 917 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,440 but maybe he'll write a book one day that's definitely 918 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,599 part of the theory, or he'll work with as former 919 00:43:53,639 --> 00:43:59,760 professor doctor Katherine Ramsland, a well known forensic psychologist. Yeah, 920 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,880 maybe there's been talking and she's even said I want 921 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,239 to study him if he would permit. 922 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 2: So maybe we'll see something like that's come to fruition. 923 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,079 Speaker 6: My girlfriend is an attorney and knows the legal process 924 00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:10,920 pretty well, and she said there's no way. 925 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,519 Speaker 2: There's just no way he's going to do it. 926 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,840 Speaker 6: I think there were a lot of questions about whether 927 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,599 or not it could be required, and I think Judge 928 00:44:17,639 --> 00:44:21,719 Hitler spoke specifically to that. He did there's no ability 929 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,440 for me to require this, and even President Trump weighed 930 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,119 in but didn't seem to understand that life in prisons 931 00:44:27,159 --> 00:44:29,239 is not great, so the death penalty isn't good either, 932 00:44:29,519 --> 00:44:31,679 but he should be required if he's going to broke 933 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:33,800 her this deal to have to give this information up. 934 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,960 But Prosecutor Bill Thompson felt the same way in defending 935 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,880 his decision that who would even believe this guy? At 936 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,679 that point, we're all at the end of a yo 937 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,800 yo and Brian Koberger is in control, and I think 938 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,159 they wanted to remove a belief that we were all 939 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,480 waiting on pins and needles for him to say something. 940 00:44:50,559 --> 00:44:52,880 Speaker 2: So I did not anticipate him saying anything. 941 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 6: I think he I respectfully decline, was what a way 942 00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,679 to close your own chapter. But no, I didn't anticipated 943 00:45:00,679 --> 00:45:03,199 he would say anything. I was told what could he gain. 944 00:45:03,679 --> 00:45:05,360 I know that he was sentenced to the max and 945 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,599 that was always almost certainly going to be where Judge 946 00:45:07,639 --> 00:45:09,920 Hipler went with his sentence, and he was a little 947 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:11,760 boxed in on what he could or couldn't do in 948 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,239 terms of sentencing for first degree murder in the state 949 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,920 and based on the agreed upon elements of the deal. 950 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,119 But I did not anticipate he would speak, and it's 951 00:45:21,199 --> 00:45:24,039 just not been his style. He didn't. He stood silent, 952 00:45:24,199 --> 00:45:26,039 so to speak, when when he was asked inter a. 953 00:45:26,039 --> 00:45:29,119 Speaker 3: Plea up in Marscow initially, which was very striking, he 954 00:45:29,119 --> 00:45:29,679 didn't even talk. 955 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,320 Speaker 6: That the only things I've ever heard Brian Koberger say audibly, 956 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,599 and he would whisper back and forth with his attorneys 957 00:45:34,599 --> 00:45:38,039 from time to time, but absolutely was one word I remember, 958 00:45:38,079 --> 00:45:40,280 and that was when he was asked if he wanted 959 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,480 to waive his speedy trial now, he didn't say yes, 960 00:45:42,519 --> 00:45:45,360 he said absolutely, and I thought that was very bizarre. 961 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,559 And then obviously when he answered affirmatively about the murders, 962 00:45:50,639 --> 00:45:53,400 and also when he entered his plea of guilty for 963 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,760 each of those, We've not really publicly heard his voice 964 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,599 outside of some of the things from prior recordings like 965 00:45:58,679 --> 00:46:02,239 his early days in his attempt to start a rap career, which. 966 00:46:02,039 --> 00:46:02,280 Speaker 5: I know. 967 00:46:04,519 --> 00:46:06,599 Speaker 6: People following the case know what I'm referencing, but yeah, 968 00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:08,639 he recorded a rap song one time when he was 969 00:46:08,679 --> 00:46:10,599 a kid or something. So yeah, we really have not 970 00:46:10,639 --> 00:46:12,320 heard much in the way of his voice, and I 971 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,239 did not anticipate it for the hearing, even though we 972 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:14,920 all wanted it. 973 00:46:15,039 --> 00:46:18,719 Speaker 5: So the other unanswered questions that you had talked about, 974 00:46:19,159 --> 00:46:22,639 in addition to why did he do it, was who 975 00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:26,119 exactly was on his radar? Like which victim was he 976 00:46:26,679 --> 00:46:30,360 out to get? And I note that has not been established. 977 00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:33,119 The Moscow Pities said they have not been able to 978 00:46:33,119 --> 00:46:37,320 find any link between him and the other victims. Was 979 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,280 there any sort of rumor or word on the street 980 00:46:40,679 --> 00:46:43,960 that you heard in all your reporting about how he 981 00:46:44,039 --> 00:46:45,800 might have known them, or how he might have met them, 982 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,719 or has that still been a consistently unanswered question. 983 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,599 Speaker 6: You'll wing, if there even is one between Coburger and 984 00:46:54,679 --> 00:46:57,360 the four victims has never been established. And there was 985 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,000 a press conference and a Q and a session immediately 986 00:47:00,119 --> 00:47:04,239 following sentencing, and one of the lead detectives described exactly 987 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,239 that we all want a motive, we all want an 988 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,800 understanding of how they cross paths and all these things, 989 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,599 but it's important as a police narrative and part of 990 00:47:13,079 --> 00:47:17,400 prosecutions and explaining to juries how this could have happened 991 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:18,920 and why this person was responsible. 992 00:47:19,119 --> 00:47:19,599 Speaker 2: He's play. 993 00:47:19,679 --> 00:47:22,079 Speaker 6: We all look for those sorts of things, but we 994 00:47:22,199 --> 00:47:25,159 just have not been able to come across it. There's 995 00:47:25,159 --> 00:47:27,719 no social media connection and all these rumors that came 996 00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,039 out and none of that's true. There is a new 997 00:47:30,079 --> 00:47:33,760 book from James Patterson and Vicky Ward that's funny. 998 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,239 Speaker 3: I saw it in a bookstore today. 999 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:37,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1000 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 6: In order to basically shoehorn a theory that's out there 1001 00:47:41,079 --> 00:47:43,440 into the book, they did something pretty creative. They spoke 1002 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,639 to one of the close friends of some of the 1003 00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:47,559 victims and she was actually one of the first people 1004 00:47:47,599 --> 00:47:50,599 to arrive at the home on the call of one 1005 00:47:50,639 --> 00:47:53,280 of the surviving roommates, and she didn't see the bodies, 1006 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,119 but her boyfriend did, and she also spoke. She gave 1007 00:47:56,119 --> 00:47:58,400 a victim impact statement on behalf of the other roommate 1008 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,199 at the the sensing hearing. In the book, there's a 1009 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,280 short chapter about how she's had a dream that Brian 1010 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:08,760 Koberger met Madison Mogan at the Mad Greek restaurant where 1011 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:14,199 Maddie and Ja where Maddie and Xana worked, and lead 1012 00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,599 detective was asked that exact question and he said. 1013 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,480 Speaker 2: We don't believe that to be true. We don't. 1014 00:48:18,519 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 6: And again, this was like this dream phase that they 1015 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,119 include in the book in order to hit that and 1016 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,800 be responsible to some extent as journalists, even though I 1017 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,840 questioned the use of that. But that's neither here nor there. 1018 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,480 But dreams are not facts. Let's just make sure everybody 1019 00:48:30,519 --> 00:48:33,880 on the podcast knows that. But no, but the investigator 1020 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,159 did say, we can't definitively say that he never aided 1021 00:48:36,159 --> 00:48:38,000 the Mad Greek restaurant, which wasn't one of the few 1022 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,039 places that had vegan options in Coberger is known as 1023 00:48:41,079 --> 00:48:43,679 a vegan, so you know that. But that also makes 1024 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,440 the presumption that Madison Mogan was the target. What I 1025 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,440 have learned, however, is in speaking with Prosecutor Bill Thompson 1026 00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:51,599 now that the gaggler has dropped. 1027 00:48:51,599 --> 00:48:52,800 Speaker 2: I just spoke to him on Monday. 1028 00:48:53,119 --> 00:48:56,800 Speaker 6: That's Wednesday or Thursday today, losing track, but I just 1029 00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,719 spoke with him and he told me that his personal belief. 1030 00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,840 He also shared this with ABC, so I'm not breaking 1031 00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,320 news here, but he said that it is his personal 1032 00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:07,119 belief that Madison Mogan or Kaylee Consolves was Coberger's target. 1033 00:49:07,599 --> 00:49:10,400 And the basis for that for investigators is that they 1034 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,679 believe Coberger immediately went upstairs to the third floor. 1035 00:49:14,199 --> 00:49:14,400 Speaker 2: Yep. 1036 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:18,119 Speaker 6: Steve Cansolve is the father of Kaylee Cansolves. He's been 1037 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,239 in a lot of news and used his platform. 1038 00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:23,920 Speaker 2: He has long said that. 1039 00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,079 Speaker 6: He believed that the girls upstairs were the target for 1040 00:49:26,119 --> 00:49:29,599 the same reason that he didn't need to go upstairs first. 1041 00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:31,880 That was his point. So that would suggest what the 1042 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,559 intent was. But even today, Bill Thompson isn't clear on 1043 00:49:35,599 --> 00:49:38,239 which young woman, and they still don't even know the 1044 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:39,599 order of the victims. 1045 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:41,760 Speaker 2: They again, they have some theories. 1046 00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,440 Speaker 6: They have pretty good idea based on timing and so forth, 1047 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,320 but they don't even really know the order. Another one 1048 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,280 of these mysteries tied to this case that may never 1049 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:49,639 be known. 1050 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,360 Speaker 5: Well, Kaylee wasn't even supposed to be there that night, 1051 00:49:52,559 --> 00:49:55,039 So I'm wondering if it was. I feel like by 1052 00:49:55,079 --> 00:49:58,280 process of elimination, it would have to be Maddie. 1053 00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,599 Speaker 6: And that's again good context clues and christ and you're 1054 00:50:01,599 --> 00:50:02,679 obviously following the case. 1055 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:04,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, she had already moved out. 1056 00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,320 Speaker 6: Kaylee and the three young women are from North Idaho, 1057 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,440 and so she drove about an hour down for the 1058 00:50:10,559 --> 00:50:14,039 last football game, the last home football game the Vandals there. 1059 00:50:14,199 --> 00:50:16,360 Speaker 2: And she had also bought a range Rover that she 1060 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:17,000 was showing off. 1061 00:50:17,559 --> 00:50:19,000 Speaker 3: She wanted to show a new car. 1062 00:50:19,199 --> 00:50:21,199 Speaker 6: Yeah, so she was, and it was a big party weekend, 1063 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:23,159 and she wanted to basically say goodbye to her friends 1064 00:50:23,199 --> 00:50:28,320 because she was leaving for a job in Austin, Texas 1065 00:50:28,519 --> 00:50:31,039 was the intent. And so she was graduating at the 1066 00:50:31,079 --> 00:50:34,639 semester mark so early. And yeah, she wasn't even supposed 1067 00:50:34,639 --> 00:50:36,840 to be there. But there's lots of talk about why 1068 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,599 the home was targeted. Perhaps and even investigator said it 1069 00:50:39,679 --> 00:50:43,880 that post sentencing press conference that it could have been 1070 00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,159 just a random choice that night to that extent that 1071 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,679 it could have been a hiding and plain sight concept 1072 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:50,559 that a lot. 1073 00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:51,840 Speaker 2: Of foot traffic in that area. 1074 00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,760 Speaker 6: It's like Greek wrote runoff and the juniors and seniors 1075 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,039 live in that little neighborhood, and he may have just 1076 00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,920 a crime of opportunity, or he may have been stocked 1077 00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:02,039 the victims or stalking the house. 1078 00:51:02,079 --> 00:51:05,320 Speaker 2: We really don't know a lot of presumptions and phone pings. 1079 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,280 Speaker 6: And different things like that, but in terms of the 1080 00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,559 rationale or the reason, if we can think. 1081 00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,360 Speaker 2: Of it that way, we really don't know. We're at 1082 00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,199 fifty six minutes, believe it or not. 1083 00:51:14,639 --> 00:51:18,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, Kevin, one last question, now that the case has 1084 00:51:18,039 --> 00:51:20,920 been adjudicated, to talk to us a little bit about 1085 00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,199 how you feel it has changed the community, if not 1086 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,679 the whole entire state. Obviously, this has took place in 1087 00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,079 two communities Moscow, Did I say that right? 1088 00:51:30,159 --> 00:51:32,480 Speaker 3: Moscow, Musco, Musco. 1089 00:51:32,599 --> 00:51:34,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, it took place in two communities, Musco and Boise, 1090 00:51:35,599 --> 00:51:38,840 and it's obviously had wide ranging media coverage. How do 1091 00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,880 you feel this case has just affected everybody in and 1092 00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:42,639 around Idaho. 1093 00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:49,880 Speaker 6: You couldn't really go anywhere without this coming up, and 1094 00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,239 maybe that's my unique experience because I'm so involved in 1095 00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,360 the case, and so if you meet people casually at 1096 00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,639 a party, everybody wants to know what you do obviously, 1097 00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,800 and then oh, do you track any interesting cases? 1098 00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,639 Speaker 2: I said, probably the one you're really following. Yeah. 1099 00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,880 Speaker 6: In terms of impact, gosh, look, the President weighed in 1100 00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:11,000 on this. Our governor issued a statement immediately following. Everybody 1101 00:52:11,039 --> 00:52:13,519 has connections to the University of Idaho in this state, 1102 00:52:13,559 --> 00:52:17,920 whether it's they attended it themselves or family, or there's 1103 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,400 even that's the only school with a law school in 1104 00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,320 our state, and they have two campuses and ones down 1105 00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,880 here in Boise. It stretches the entirety of the state 1106 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,360 and they have a lot of at least Idaho famous 1107 00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,760 alums and things like that. So everybody was affected by this, 1108 00:52:32,159 --> 00:52:35,639 and just geographically, it struck the region so hard, and 1109 00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,679 Moscow obviously loaned out the case if you want to 1110 00:52:39,679 --> 00:52:41,760 think about it that way down here to Boise. But 1111 00:52:42,599 --> 00:52:45,679 even logistically it was a nightmare across the state. So 1112 00:52:46,519 --> 00:52:50,480 it has affected everybody. And again, you don't intend to 1113 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,519 become desensitized to these things, but it hits you right 1114 00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:54,159 in the face when it's in front of you in 1115 00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,360 terms of actually starting to think about trial and attending 1116 00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,960 these hearings that are so emotional, and people were tuned 1117 00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,639 in across the country and even across the state. They 1118 00:53:03,639 --> 00:53:05,039 were interested, they were curious. 1119 00:53:05,079 --> 00:53:05,840 Speaker 2: It's just such a. 1120 00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:09,760 Speaker 6: Confusing case with still again so many unanswered questions, and 1121 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,079 so people were following it and tracking it, and they 1122 00:53:13,079 --> 00:53:16,440 were invested and they wanted to see how this would 1123 00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:21,000 play out. And they all heard the roommate give the 1124 00:53:21,079 --> 00:53:25,480 victim impact statements and we were all just gutted. So 1125 00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,320 in terms of I guess how we all move forward 1126 00:53:28,519 --> 00:53:32,000 as a state and as those primarily Moscow is what 1127 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,880 we think about in the victims' families. Of course, this 1128 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,199 is something that's going to be a part of the 1129 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,480 community's history, the state's history forever. It's not going anywhere. 1130 00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,519 We can turn the page toward greater healing because there's 1131 00:53:45,519 --> 00:53:47,880 some finality to it, and we know he'll spend the 1132 00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,719 rest of his life and die in prison. But there's 1133 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:52,800 no way to ignore that this happened to this community, 1134 00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:57,719 that those lives were lost, and it affected the university significantly. 1135 00:53:57,920 --> 00:53:59,639 It affected campus life. 1136 00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,280 Speaker 2: And feelings of safety and the things that. 1137 00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,000 Speaker 6: We hold near and dear to the college experience. It 1138 00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:09,280 affected Pullman and affected Albright still Pennsylvania. It affected a 1139 00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,599 lot of people, and his family included. And I think 1140 00:54:12,639 --> 00:54:15,239 we're still it's still so fresh, and I've talked to 1141 00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,440 some of the key people who were involved in the case, 1142 00:54:17,559 --> 00:54:20,360 but I think slowly things are I guess, returning to 1143 00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,079 more of a normal, but even then it's still there's 1144 00:54:24,119 --> 00:54:26,880 impacts long lasting, and I think we're just coming out 1145 00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,480 of it and trying to find our way a little bit. 1146 00:54:29,559 --> 00:54:33,159 But I'm grateful selfishly that I don't have to attend 1147 00:54:33,159 --> 00:54:36,079 a three month trial again for fourteen hour days. That 1148 00:54:36,119 --> 00:54:39,000 would have been quite an experience and I think grueling 1149 00:54:39,039 --> 00:54:41,199 in many ways. Obviously that's not important in the grand 1150 00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,320 scheme of things, but I think the community is somewhat 1151 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,440 grateful that we don't have the gigantic media circus in 1152 00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:49,840 front of the courthouse every day and we can all 1153 00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,440 go forward living our lives best we can after this 1154 00:54:52,599 --> 00:54:53,440 traumatic incident. 1155 00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,119 Speaker 5: Well, Kevin, it has been a pleasure talking you. Thank 1156 00:54:58,159 --> 00:55:00,320 you for taking time out of what I'm i'm sure 1157 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,679 has been an exhausting summer to spend time with us. 1158 00:55:03,679 --> 00:55:04,639 Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. 1159 00:55:05,199 --> 00:55:07,559 Speaker 2: Thanks thanks again for thinking of us and for having me. 1160 00:55:07,679 --> 00:55:08,159 It was great. 1161 00:55:09,199 --> 00:55:10,679 Speaker 5: That is going to do it for this episode of 1162 00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,239 mind Over Murder. Thank you so much for listening. We'll 1163 00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:14,159 see you next time. 1164 00:55:24,519 --> 00:55:28,039 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and 1165 00:55:28,119 --> 00:55:29,559 Another Dog Productions. 1166 00:55:30,119 --> 00:55:33,440 Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 1167 00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,199 Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. 1168 00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:38,920 Speaker 3: Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud. 1169 00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:43,360 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with crawl Space Media. 1170 00:55:44,119 --> 00:55:47,320 Speaker 3: You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. 1171 00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,079 Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway 1172 00:55:50,159 --> 00:55:52,039 Murders on Facebook. 1173 00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,800 Speaker 3: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at 1174 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,440 Bill Thomas five six. 1175 00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:23,280 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder. 1176 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:02,280 Speaker 2: Mu