Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBZY, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: Well, good evening, every one, thanks very much to call.
Speaker 2: My name is Dan Ray, the host of the program
Speaker 2: called The Nightside. We are a year number eighteen here
Speaker 2: on WBZ, rolling right along through a very chilly January
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty five today. For those of you who
Speaker 2: are keeping score in his January eighth we will be
Speaker 2: with you all the way to midnight. We have a
Speaker 2: number of topics of interest coming up tonight. But in
Speaker 2: our first hour we talked with four newsmakers. Going to
Speaker 2: talk about the neurovirus outbreak, coming up with doctor Paul Sachs,
Speaker 2: going to talk with former ambassador and former congress Woman
Speaker 2: Margaret Heckler's a daughter in law, Kimberly Heckler, who has
Speaker 2: written a book about Margaret Heckler's legacy, and also talk
Speaker 2: with David Sealino about the Los Angeles wildfires. But we
Speaker 2: are going to start off tonight talk a little bit
Speaker 2: about former President Jimmy Carter, who of course passed away
Speaker 2: a few days ago and tonight is lying in state
Speaker 2: at the US Capitol. Joining us is Bruce Percellt. He
Speaker 2: is the chair of the board of the Edward M.
Speaker 2: Kennedy Institute for the United States Senate, a great institution
Speaker 2: over at Columbia Point right next to the John F.
Speaker 2: Kennedy Presidential Library. And Bruce Parslett, you had an opportunity,
Speaker 2: I guess, to spend some time with Jimmy Carter, either
Speaker 2: while he was president, but perhaps even more importantly after
Speaker 2: he was president. Welcome to Night's side and tell us
Speaker 2: about your experiences with Jimmy Carter.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Dan. I had the opportunity to serve as
Speaker 3: chairman of the Maker Excuse me. I did the Make
Speaker 3: a Wish Foundation as well as Habitat for Humanity Sure,
Speaker 3: and I spent a tremendous amount of time. In fact,
Speaker 3: Habitat built the largest urban habitat project uned States on
Speaker 3: Bluehill Avenue in Boston. And I was invited to Plaines,
Speaker 3: Georgia with a small group and we spent the weekend
Speaker 3: with Jimmy Carter and his wife in planes and really
Speaker 3: got to see him in action, and it was fascinating.
Speaker 3: He was exactly as advertised. He was incredibly genuine, and
Speaker 3: we went to a church service where he gave a sermon.
Speaker 3: He afterwards invited us to go to a wedding where
Speaker 3: a young lady's father had passed away, and he had
Speaker 3: read about it, and he volunteered to stand in for
Speaker 3: the girl's dad and walk her down the aisle, and
Speaker 3: it was incredibly genuine. There was no press, there was
Speaker 3: no media, there was no advanced publicity. This was a
Speaker 3: person who did really wonderful deeds after being president. And
Speaker 3: you know, the word on Jimmy Carter was that he
Speaker 3: was a very ineffective president, but a very successful ex president.
Speaker 2: Rino Bruce, you and I have something in common. I
Speaker 2: spent a day with Jimmy Carter in Plains, Georgia in
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six. I suspect you were there a little
Speaker 2: after me. I had an opportunity to meet then Governor
Speaker 2: Carter as he was running for president, interviewed him while
Speaker 2: he was president, and then after his presidency, I did
Speaker 2: a documentary an hour on tip O'Neil and tip O'Neil,
Speaker 2: a rain trust to spend a day with Jimmy Carter
Speaker 2: in Plains, Georgia, and it was one of the most
Speaker 2: interesting days of my life. And you know, I don't
Speaker 2: want to try to top your story because you spent
Speaker 2: I think a lot more up close and personal time. Well,
Speaker 2: we're driving that day with my crew to go see
Speaker 2: former President Carter and planes, and I happened to notice
Speaker 2: these trees, and me being a northern boy, I said
Speaker 2: to one of my camera men, whose name was Glenn.
Speaker 2: He was from It's from New Orleans actually with a
Speaker 2: deep Southern accent, I said, Glenn, what type of trees
Speaker 2: are those? And he looked at me and he said,
Speaker 2: those are Peakan trees. Everybody knows Peakan trees. I did not,
Speaker 2: so a couple of minutes later he said, well, let
Speaker 2: me ask you how did peanuts grow? So I thought
Speaker 2: Glenn was going to try to, you know, give me
Speaker 2: a hard time, and I said, I'm not sure. I
Speaker 2: think everybody knew peanuts growing a vine. Well, we meet Carter, President,
Speaker 2: former President Carter, have a great time, and in the
Speaker 2: protocol there is generally the crew doesn't say much. And
Speaker 2: as we were, as he was leaving later in the
Speaker 2: after our interview and all, Glenn piped up in his
Speaker 2: Southern accent and saidmit to President, I want to know
Speaker 2: how do peanuts grow? And I was horrified that Jimmy
Speaker 2: Carter probably thought that this was some TV camera guy
Speaker 2: from Boston, some Yankee boy giving him a hard time,
Speaker 2: and I jumped in, I said, I'm mister President. I said,
Speaker 2: Glenn actually works for WBZ, but he is from New
Speaker 2: Orleans and that is his accent. And President Carter then
Speaker 2: spent about twenty minutes explaining in great detail to Glenn
Speaker 2: how peanuts grew. Glenn did not know that they grew
Speaker 2: on a vine underground. So you see that side of him,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you saw it in the same way.
Speaker 2: And he was really very normal guy, probably one of
Speaker 2: the most normal in terms of being like you or
Speaker 2: me normal guys that ever held the office.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he also did not monetize his presidency. He
Speaker 3: did not charge for speeches after he retired or lost
Speaker 3: his election, did not enrich himself. He went back to planes,
Speaker 3: moved into the same house that he and Rosam Carter
Speaker 3: lived in before he was elected. And you know today
Speaker 3: that's a very different scenario. But he was what you
Speaker 3: saw on TV. He was totally grounded, and you know,
Speaker 3: he was not a politician, and that did not serve
Speaker 3: him well while he was in office, but it served
Speaker 3: him very well after he was in office.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my view of him that he was the victim
Speaker 2: of some bad timing. He became president in the wake
Speaker 2: of Watergate, the Vietnam War, the country was kind of down.
Speaker 2: They wanted someone who was different, and he certainly was
Speaker 2: that hem ount of nowhere to become the Democratic nominee.
Speaker 2: And he did have some accomplishments in office. You kind
Speaker 2: of downplay the accord that he got Monock and Vegan
Speaker 2: and I wants a dot to sign, amongst others. Not
Speaker 2: bad for a guy who was a peanut farm in
Speaker 2: Georgia to pull those two together.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, he did suffer from some bad luck.
Speaker 3: I mean, the oil crisis was disastrous, and the hospit
Speaker 3: situation and the attempted rescue and a lot of those
Speaker 3: events tainted his presidency to this day. But his performance
Speaker 3: after leaving the White House, you know, has been exemplary
Speaker 3: and I think sets a very high standard for how
Speaker 3: a former president should conduct himself.
Speaker 2: And he had a lot of time. You know, he
Speaker 2: had the benefit of about forty four years as a
Speaker 2: post president, which I don't think any other president has
Speaker 2: come close to having. Someone mentioned to me that his
Speaker 2: post presidency was almost as long as the entire life
Speaker 2: of President Kennedy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's that math is about right. You know,
Speaker 3: I want to share an amusing story with you, if
Speaker 3: that's okay. I'm going to try to be as discreet
Speaker 3: about it as possible. But we had gone to dinner
Speaker 3: at a small restaurant and it was a very very
Speaker 3: simple restaurant. It was more like a meeting house. And
Speaker 3: I excused myself before the dinner to go to the
Speaker 3: men's room and there were journals and I was doing
Speaker 3: what I was intending to do when I went there,
Speaker 3: and I'm standing up and I hear this little noise
Speaker 3: out of the corner of my ear, and I turned
Speaker 3: to the right and there's Jimmy Carter and we are
Speaker 3: both going about out our business and the same thing.
Speaker 3: He asked me about my background, and that was how
Speaker 3: I first met him. So, you know, today there'd be
Speaker 3: secret service all over the place and so forth. But
Speaker 3: I don't know many people who can say that that
Speaker 3: is how they met a former president, but it was.
Speaker 3: It was an amusing experience.
Speaker 2: ABC used to do these documentaries called up Close and Personal.
Speaker 2: That would have that would have fit that character. So yeah,
Speaker 2: that probably would have bruce you You are the chair
Speaker 2: of a of a great institute, the Edward M. Kennedy
Speaker 2: Institute for the US Senate. People may not know as
Speaker 2: much about it as they do about the Kennedy Library,
Speaker 2: but it is a fabulous facility. I actually hosted and
Speaker 2: interviewed Natan Sharansky, the Soviet dissident now Israeli politician, at
Speaker 2: the Institute about ten years or so ago. It is
Speaker 2: a fabulous building and anyone who's interested in politics needs
Speaker 2: to see that building, to get inside and see the
Speaker 2: creation that is the is the identical size of the
Speaker 2: floor and the seats of the United States Senate. So
Speaker 2: I just I can't tell you what a big fan
Speaker 2: I am of the facility that you now share. So
Speaker 2: thanks for what you do, and thanks for joining us tonight.
Speaker 3: You're very very welcome.
Speaker 2: All right, Bruce personally of the Kennedy Institute, Thanks so much. Bruce.
Speaker 2: When we get back, we are going to change topics
Speaker 2: and we're going to talk about more difficult topic, and
Speaker 2: that is the neuro virus outbreak with doctor Paul Sachs
Speaker 2: coming back on night Side right after this break. My
Speaker 2: name is Dan Ray. You listen to WBZ Boston. This
Speaker 2: is You can listen to us on ten thirty of
Speaker 2: the A and dial. Also can download the new I
Speaker 2: Heard app when you would like, and you can listen
Speaker 2: to us anywhere the world, from anywhere in the world,
Speaker 2: any hour of the day. Back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
Speaker 1: Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: All right, I think everyone has heard of the neuro virus,
Speaker 2: and it is everywhere apparently at this point, and we're
Speaker 2: going to talk with doctor Paul Sachs about the neural virus.
Speaker 2: He's the clinical director of the Division of Infectious Diseases
Speaker 2: for Brigham and Women's Hospital, one of my favorite hospitals
Speaker 2: here in New England, the hospital that our great friend,
Speaker 2: doctor Larry Cohne was a cardiac surgeon at for for decades.
Speaker 2: Dr Sachs, welcome to Nightside. How are you, sir?
Speaker 4: I'm well, Thank you, Dan, how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm doing just great. I don't know if you overlapped
Speaker 2: with doctor Larry Cohne, but he's a great friend. He
Speaker 2: was also a great contributor to this program. Whenever I
Speaker 2: think of Brigham and Women's Hospital, I think of my
Speaker 2: friend Larry and he would commit and do two hours
Speaker 2: in the radio and just enjoy himself. I told him
Speaker 2: that in his next life. Unfortunately he passed a few
Speaker 2: years ago. I said he was going to be a
Speaker 2: radio or he had been a radio person in a
Speaker 2: prior exist. And so I've had great luck with doctors
Speaker 2: from Brigham and Women's, and I know we're going to
Speaker 2: have great luck with you. What's going on with no
Speaker 2: real virus? I always think of that as something that
Speaker 2: is an outbreak on a cruise ship. And now it's
Speaker 2: supposedly all over Massachusetts.
Speaker 4: What's going on, Well, it's actually all over the United States.
Speaker 4: There's a huge increase in neuro virus cases. And you
Speaker 4: know someone who's had it. Everybody knows someone who's had it.
Speaker 4: I have a close friend who's had it. I've got
Speaker 4: patients to have it. It's basically the kind of the
Speaker 4: food poisoning illness of come that both directions, the upper
Speaker 4: direction in the lower direction. That's very, very difficult. So
Speaker 4: it's a tough one.
Speaker 2: But I love you using those technical medical terms.
Speaker 4: Go right ahead, doctor, Well, I just I just think
Speaker 4: that people should be aware that this is out there
Speaker 4: and circulating, and it's very contagious and the best protection
Speaker 4: is really to wash your hands carefully. It's getting back
Speaker 4: the lessons that we have learned from since we were
Speaker 4: in school, which is basically the best way to prevent
Speaker 4: infections to wash your hands. And this is true about noravirus.
Speaker 2: Yes, as they say in kindergarten, you know, wash your hands,
Speaker 2: work well with others, pay attention. So I got to
Speaker 2: go in life when you really think about it, Look,
Speaker 2: here's my question, how does does this disease? Does it
Speaker 2: have a cycle? Meaning this was designated that every seven
Speaker 2: years this thing comes at us as a vengeance or
Speaker 2: were they able to trace it and say, hey, this
Speaker 2: year we had I think about cruise ships. Now, maybe
Speaker 2: I'm dumb about that, but I didn't know if they
Speaker 2: were like five or six cruise ships that simultaneously sent
Speaker 2: a couple of thousand people back into America, you know
Speaker 2: who had been infected, what's the what's the genesis of it?
Speaker 2: Are we able to know?
Speaker 4: So you're absolutely right about cruise ships. Cruise ships are
Speaker 4: intensifying locations for infections because people are on the boat,
Speaker 4: they really can't escape, and once someone gets sick, they're
Speaker 4: all going to the same place. To eat, and so
Speaker 4: if there's a food borne illness or anlys that's spread
Speaker 4: by poor sanitation, cruise ships amplify them, and so those
Speaker 4: amplifiers do cause these big outbreaks. But what's happened this year,
Speaker 4: and for reasons that are not quite clear, is that
Speaker 4: it's actually happening in the community at large, and so
Speaker 4: we're seeing way more cases than we usually do, and
Speaker 4: that's that's why it's newsworthy. I do think it also
Speaker 4: relates to the underlying community. When we have immunity to
Speaker 4: these viral infections, it tends to protect us. And those
Speaker 4: immunity community can fade gradually over years, so maybe this
Speaker 4: year is particularly particular vulnerable, and that's why we're seeing
Speaker 4: so much, so many cases.
Speaker 2: I dealt with an upper respiratory affection for about two weeks,
Speaker 2: and since I have you, I'm going to ask you
Speaker 2: about it, because my understanding is that there's a lot
Speaker 2: of that stuff going around. I was sent off to
Speaker 2: chest X ray to make sure I didn't have pneumonia,
Speaker 2: and my doctor kind of said to me, well, you
Speaker 2: can call it ur upper respiratory if you want to
Speaker 2: call it bronchitis. Is are those the two you know
Speaker 2: again different body locations, the upper respiratory which you just
Speaker 2: couldn't stop coughing and you couldn't get anything up to
Speaker 2: minimize the coughing. Are those the two big problems that
Speaker 2: we're looking at this winter.
Speaker 4: So welcome to the winter. The winter is when we
Speaker 4: see more of these infections. We're more aware of it
Speaker 4: now than we used to be because of COVID nineteen
Speaker 4: and indeed, in every winter even before twenty twenty, we
Speaker 4: started seeing more infections and most years who would just say, oh,
Speaker 4: it's the flu season. But now we're really hyper aware
Speaker 4: of these and this year, just like all years, we're
Speaker 4: seeing lots of viral respiratory infections. And the added bonus
Speaker 4: joking is that if you're seeing more gas from intestinal infections,
Speaker 4: which is neurovirus, this is really off.
Speaker 2: I get paid to ask questions, I truly do. That's okay.
Speaker 2: You get paid to solve people's medical problems. Is there
Speaker 2: is this about fifty in terms of these two these
Speaker 2: are the two biggies of the winter. Are they about
Speaker 2: the same in terms of the number of people that
Speaker 2: have been affected? Or is neuro virus?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: You know much more about and about the bronchial upper
Speaker 2: respiratory infections.
Speaker 4: Well, I can't give you numbers to compare, but I
Speaker 4: will tell you that if someone has neurovirus a bad case,
Speaker 4: they're they're incapacitated. You know, they have a couple of
Speaker 4: days at home where they're not doing anything. You know,
Speaker 4: And anyone who's had this illness understands what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4: And you know, I mean again just to tell you
Speaker 4: that that it's first of all, it's very contagious, but
Speaker 4: not one hundred percent. So if you're in a household
Speaker 4: where there's a person who has it, it does make
Speaker 4: sense to try to avoid the person. It makes sense
Speaker 4: to try to wash your hands frequently, to not share
Speaker 4: food with that person, and you could not get it.
Speaker 4: It is contagious, but not one hundred percent. And second,
Speaker 4: you know the viro respistory infections, those are spread predominantly
Speaker 4: by airborne transmission, so it's very different. So nor virus
Speaker 4: is spread more by contaminated food and water and by
Speaker 4: contacting surfaces, whereas the residtory viruses are spread more by
Speaker 4: you know, the air. That's something we've learned very clearly.
Speaker 4: So they're two different things. But they both get both
Speaker 4: get increased in the winter time.
Speaker 2: I follow the numbers that are released every week about
Speaker 2: the number of COVID cases, and there's always a few
Speaker 2: deaths related to COVID. Sure is COVID seems to stabilized.
Speaker 2: From the numbers I'm looking at it. It's always about
Speaker 2: fifteen hundred new cases a year in a state with
Speaker 2: six point seven million. That's a decimal point. But you know,
Speaker 2: I learned of a friend of mine today, not going
Speaker 2: to identify who that person was, who was diagnosed with COVID.
Speaker 2: I took COVID tests when I first got this bronchitis
Speaker 2: when it was COVID is not the big problem this year.
Speaker 2: It's neurovirus and or the bronchitis, is what I'm getting
Speaker 2: from our conversation.
Speaker 4: So you're absolutely right. COVID is still there because your
Speaker 4: friend had it, and we all know people have had it,
Speaker 4: but it's not nearly as serious as it was in
Speaker 4: the first one to two years of the pandemic. That's
Speaker 4: because of our built up immunity and we have built
Speaker 4: community from prior infections plus prior vaccinations, so we should
Speaker 4: still pay attention to it. And it's very lethal potentially
Speaker 4: to people who have underlying medical problems, but it's not
Speaker 4: the same problem, so it should be contextualized other things
Speaker 4: that people can get. So I would say that this season,
Speaker 4: it's it's influenza right now, there's tons of flu out there,
Speaker 4: it's covid, it's it's nouro virus, it's it's a it's
Speaker 4: a mix. But that doesn't mean that we should stop
Speaker 4: interacting with people, stop having our holiday celebrations, which has finished.
Speaker 4: This is part of the package of being in a
Speaker 4: winter location, and it just means that every year should
Speaker 4: just beware that this is the season where these infections
Speaker 4: start increasing.
Speaker 2: Here's my dumbest question of the night. Will the really
Speaker 2: bitterly cold weather of the last few days in the
Speaker 2: next couple of days, will that knock a lot of
Speaker 2: this stuff down? Or is that just an old lives tale.
Speaker 4: I want to be polite to you, but it really
Speaker 4: it's very unclear. I mean, the bitter cold weather certainly
Speaker 4: puts people in a situation where they're more likely to
Speaker 4: huddle inside and not interact with others, so potentially it could.
Speaker 4: But on the other hand, you know, the outdoor activities
Speaker 4: that are very safe for respiratory tract infections are basically
Speaker 4: non starters, so it's really hard to say good question though.
Speaker 2: Well, as they say, they pay me to ask questions,
Speaker 2: and I try to do my best here. You did
Speaker 2: a great job, though. You have lived up to the
Speaker 2: doctor Larry Cone Brigham and Women's Hospital standard, which is
Speaker 2: a high bar.
Speaker 4: Here, nice, I I want you to know a great
Speaker 4: cardiac surgeon. I remember him fondly.
Speaker 2: Just a wonderful guy. Just a wonderful guy. Doctor Paul Sachs,
Speaker 2: you sound the same way. Thanks so much. Love to
Speaker 2: have you back. You make it understandable even for people
Speaker 2: like me, which is quite an accomplishment. Thank you, doctor,
Speaker 2: appreciate it very much. Have a great, great rest of
Speaker 2: the week and weekend, and stay well.
Speaker 4: Thanks to help.
Speaker 2: Dan. All right, when we get back, we're going to
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about politics. We're going to talk
Speaker 2: about a Massachusetts native who served in Congress, was a
Speaker 2: cabinet secretary and eventually ambassador to Ireland. Congresswoman, Ambassador and Secretary,
Speaker 2: Margaret Heckler, going to talk with her daughter in law,
Speaker 2: who has written a book about Margaret Heckler her legacy
Speaker 2: as a trail blazing Force for Justice inequality. Going to
Speaker 2: be back on Nightside right after the news at the
Speaker 2: bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2: All right, we are back. And I had an opportunity
Speaker 2: during my career as a teller's reporter to cover Congresswoman
Speaker 2: Margaret Heckler, both while she was a member of the
Speaker 2: House of Representatives representing Massachusetts, later as she served as
Speaker 2: a Cabinet secretary in the Reagan administration and beyond that
Speaker 2: as ambassador to Ireland and with US. Is Kimberly Heckler,
Speaker 2: the author and also daughter in law of Margaret Heckler,
Speaker 2: with a very special tribute and a book entitled A
Speaker 2: Woman of Firsts. Kimberly Heckler. Welcome to Nightside. How are you.
Speaker 5: I am doing great. Thank you so much, Dan, Thanks
Speaker 5: for having me.
Speaker 2: You're really welcome. I again, had plenty of interaction with
Speaker 2: your late mother in law. She was a Republican here
Speaker 2: in Massachusetts, which it was a difficult road to road
Speaker 2: to uh to travel. H A proud Boston Universe, Boston
Speaker 2: College alumnus, UH and and and and she touched all
Speaker 2: the bases, as they say, as an elected official, as
Speaker 2: a Cabinet secretary and as an ambassador. Uh tell us
Speaker 2: what what will you tell us about her legacy?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: And and why? Obviously you had tremendous access to her.
Speaker 2: So I'm sure that's why you decided to write the book.
Speaker 2: But what will people learn from the book that they
Speaker 2: need to learn?
Speaker 5: Well, thank you, Dan. I married Margaret Heckler's only son,
Speaker 5: the baby of the three siblings two daughters and a son,
Speaker 5: and John Heckler. So Margaret lived in Arlington, Virginia, no
Speaker 5: further than a mile away from us as a married
Speaker 5: couple for my entired married life, and so I didn't
Speaker 5: get to know Margaret until she was ambassador to Ireland.
Speaker 5: And at that point I also wasn't aware at the
Speaker 5: time that she was the most powerful American in Ireland.
Speaker 5: And so through raising kids and Sunday night dinners, some
Speaker 5: of the stories came out. And basically most of the wonderful,
Speaker 5: amazing legacy pieces that make her historically significant I learned
Speaker 5: in her life years. Because she didn't really go into
Speaker 5: detail about how she wrote the law for women to
Speaker 5: get credit and credit cards in their own names for
Speaker 5: the first time in American history. I had no idea
Speaker 5: that she was one of the primary sponsors for the
Speaker 5: Equal Rights Amendment as a Republican, the stories that I
Speaker 5: learned about what she did as a Health and Human
Speaker 5: Services secretary, that she was quoted as being one of
Speaker 5: the most powerful women in America in nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 5: Those stories came out later when I was responsible for
Speaker 5: the boxes upon boxes of her items. Not mentioned that
Speaker 5: over yes, her papers, and not to mention the two
Speaker 5: hundred two hundred boxes that are stored at the Burns
Speaker 5: Library at Boston College.
Speaker 2: She certainly had an imprint. I actually, besides covering her
Speaker 2: here and in Washington, did a fairly extensive sit down
Speaker 2: interview with her at the US Embassy in Phoenix Park
Speaker 2: in Dublin many many years ago. Oh, she was the
Speaker 2: ambassador to Ireland. And as a person. I knew her
Speaker 2: obviously as a political leader, but you knew her as
Speaker 2: a political leader, but you also got to know her
Speaker 2: as a daughter in law. So tell us tell us
Speaker 2: about her as a person, because I think a lot
Speaker 2: of people would want to read the book to get
Speaker 2: some of those insights.
Speaker 5: Yes, I think the book it's not only just a
Speaker 5: biography about Margaret Heckler, which will detail to the readers.
Speaker 5: It starts in Ireland with her father who came from Limerick,
Speaker 5: a family of nine, into Ellis Island, and there met
Speaker 5: her mother. Anyway, she became an unwanted child given away
Speaker 5: at birth. So you will learn that in the book
Speaker 5: that this woman's rise into the highest quarters of power
Speaker 5: came from a very fragile and wounded child who was
Speaker 5: raised in a boarding house in Queens, New York, in
Speaker 5: the Irish borough there and with her being fortunate enough
Speaker 5: to be raised by a woman, a seventy five year
Speaker 5: old woman who couldn't afford to just work as a
Speaker 5: laundress anymore because of her age, she took on this
Speaker 5: baby and raised Margaret O'Shaughnessy, who would go on to
Speaker 5: receive all Catholic school education for free on scholarship, which
Speaker 5: was embarrassing to her that she had to make her
Speaker 5: own way, and that work ethic is what pushed her
Speaker 5: to work hard, but it also gave her a burning
Speaker 5: desire to distribute compassion at every position that she had.
Speaker 5: So when she came into Congress in nineteen sixty six,
Speaker 5: nineteen sixty six with George H. W. Bush him being
Speaker 5: the President of the freshman class and her being the
Speaker 5: vice president, she would be the only newly elected woman
Speaker 5: to Congress in nineteen sixty six, and entering there would
Speaker 5: only be ten women out of the five hundred and
Speaker 5: thirty five, the majority of those being men. So she
Speaker 5: entered a world of men at a time where American
Speaker 5: women needed Margaret Heckler. But very few know the story
Speaker 5: about her. Yeah, I think she would do there.
Speaker 2: I did not know that biographical aspect of her. Now,
Speaker 2: the book actually is published on February fourth, you know,
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks from now. But is it available
Speaker 2: to order? Tell us how folks who have interested in
Speaker 2: politics are interested in her story? How can they most
Speaker 2: easily get at the book?
Speaker 5: Yes, so the book is been published by Lyons Press
Speaker 5: l YO NS. And they can certainly go to my
Speaker 5: website Kimberly Heckler kim b E R. L y Heckler
Speaker 5: dot com or Amazon or Barnes and Noble. It's there
Speaker 5: right now as a pre order, and if they order
Speaker 5: it today, it'll come in thirty days. And it certainly
Speaker 5: is more than just a biography. It's a rare view
Speaker 5: into the behind the scenes world of American politics, where
Speaker 5: she rubbed shoulders with leaders from LBJ to Ronald Reagan,
Speaker 5: and it details the nineteen sixties to the nineteen eighties
Speaker 5: experiences of a woman who successfully broke the glass ceiling
Speaker 5: in the sphere of politics that had always been dominated
Speaker 5: by men.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure it's going to be a successful book.
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to reading it. And as they say,
Speaker 2: I had the opportunity to spend time covering her and
Speaker 2: interviewing her, and I'll be very interested to get your take,
Speaker 2: which is obviously from a bit of a different perspective.
Speaker 2: But she was always very gracious and always lovely to
Speaker 2: deal with. And I wish we had more politicians like
Speaker 2: her today. Again, the Peggy Hecklers of the world are
Speaker 2: rare today.
Speaker 5: That's for sure, but they are rare her bipartisan side.
Speaker 5: She lived during that time where bipartisanship was very popular.
Speaker 5: You know, she had people in her parties and in McLean,
Speaker 5: Virginia that were Ted Kennedy, Tip O'Neill diving off the
Speaker 5: diving board and deals being made under the Linden Tree.
Speaker 5: So she was very much across the aisle doing what
Speaker 5: she did, getting the job done for the American people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when she was elected by the way in
Speaker 2: sixty six her first term in con I believe that
Speaker 2: she had. Was she not prior to that like a
Speaker 2: Governor's councilor she had been elected previously. She just didn't
Speaker 2: come out of help she was.
Speaker 5: Yes, that's exactly right. She was one of the first
Speaker 5: women on the Governor's Council, which is very unique to Massachusetts. Yes,
Speaker 5: and so she would not have necessarily won that because
Speaker 5: she was a no name and a woman, except someone
Speaker 5: had given her a hint that there was a dairy farmer.
Speaker 5: This was when milk was delivered in glass bottles to
Speaker 5: each home. There was a dairy farmer that would be
Speaker 5: willing to put her card vote peg Heckler, which eat
Speaker 5: with each bottle of milk for the Governor's Council, and
Speaker 5: so within the district that she was running in it
Speaker 5: was similar to the congressional district sense Wells Wells lead
Speaker 5: of Fall River. Those people in the nineteen sixty two
Speaker 5: when she was running would wake up in the morning,
Speaker 5: put their cat out, get their milk, and there was
Speaker 5: a I'm rocher vote peg Heckler for the Governor's Council.
Speaker 2: Won that Gues today someone will be calling that an
Speaker 2: inkuy contribution, Kimberly, but I think the Statute of Limitations
Speaker 2: as long since running that She also went to Congress
Speaker 2: in sixty six. Ed Brooke was elected as a Republican
Speaker 2: United States Senator in that election as well, So it's
Speaker 2: a very historic election right after the debacle of nineteen
Speaker 2: sixty four. Kimberly, thank you very much. I enjoyed it
Speaker 2: a lot, looking forward to getting the book, and I
Speaker 2: wish you all the success in the world with it.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Dan. It was my extreme pleasure.
Speaker 2: Right back at you. Appreciate it very much. When we
Speaker 2: get back here, our fourth and final guest tonight, we
Speaker 2: will be interviewing coming up on the other side, our
Speaker 2: fourth and final guest. He is the Chief Fire Award
Speaker 2: and for the Massachusets Department of Conservation and recreat We're
Speaker 2: going to talk about whether or not we're going to
Speaker 2: have to send people out to California, whether we have already,
Speaker 2: and also why what is happening tonight outside of Los
Speaker 2: Angeles and in parts of Los Angeles hopefully could never
Speaker 2: happen here. We'll talk with David Seleno right after the break.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan Ray live from the window World
Speaker 1: Nightside Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio, like.
Speaker 2: To welcome David Seleno. He's the chief fire a warden
Speaker 2: for the Massachusetts Department of Conservation and Recreation. David, Welcome
Speaker 2: to Night's Side. I can't imagine what the people of
Speaker 2: California are going through. I'd love to know what your
Speaker 2: thoughts are as you watch these horrific flames. I mean,
Speaker 2: it looks like a war zone. It looks like an inferno.
Speaker 2: I mean, how could this possibly happen in America?
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, it's good to be with you, and you're right.
Speaker 6: You know, we all think about that we've seen this.
Speaker 6: You know, we've seen this in recent history, not just
Speaker 6: in Los Angeles, but Hawaii, you know, Gatlinburg, Tennessee right
Speaker 6: in twenty sixteen, and a number of other you know,
Speaker 6: fire events that that really catch our eye, you know,
Speaker 6: every time they happened, and even for folks that have
Speaker 6: that have been involved in the business for a long time,
Speaker 6: we're watching this story unfold and you know, it's really
Speaker 6: really you know, I.
Speaker 2: Remember last fall when we had the brush fires here
Speaker 2: in Massachusetts in October. If I'm no mistaken, We didn't
Speaker 2: have a lot of rain in September and October, and
Speaker 2: you folks were dealing with brush fires all over the state.
Speaker 2: I think it's at different times they were thirty or
Speaker 2: forty brush fires burning across the small area, but none,
Speaker 2: none of them really ever got out of control. What's
Speaker 2: the difference, what's the difference between what went on in
Speaker 2: California the Santorana wins?
Speaker 6: Is that it that's really it. It's really you know,
Speaker 6: wildland fire really breaks down to it's pretty simple. The elements,
Speaker 6: the natural elements that influence wild on fire is simply fuels,
Speaker 6: weather and topography. And so southern California is no stranger
Speaker 6: to the to the Santa Ana winds. It's really it's
Speaker 6: really a machine. A high pressure system sets up in
Speaker 6: the Great Basin northern Nevada, spins clockwise and forces those
Speaker 6: winds through the sant Anna Mountains, and when they come
Speaker 6: out of the canyons, they're ringed super dry of any moisture.
Speaker 6: They're heated air. It's heated air, and then you put
Speaker 6: eighty to one hundred mile an hour wind speeds behind it.
Speaker 6: Given the fuel conditions that they're in, super dry fuel conditions,
Speaker 6: no rain you know in recent memory there and it's
Speaker 6: just a recipe for disaster. And so any spark will
Speaker 6: get a fire to start and then you get extreme
Speaker 6: fire behavior rapid rates to spread. We actually saw some
Speaker 6: of that, some of those conditions even in the fall
Speaker 6: here in Massachusetts October and November, which was which was
Speaker 6: a historic event for us in modern times to have
Speaker 6: that much fire behavior. But we saw some of that
Speaker 6: dangerous fire behavior because we had those same elements, super
Speaker 6: dry air conditions, a drought that had you know, drought
Speaker 6: on set and uh, and very dry fuels.
Speaker 2: So what can we do. I have a friend of
Speaker 2: mine in California who today told me that California has
Speaker 2: been remiss in not clearing out dead vegetation in in
Speaker 2: large parts of that state. Uh. And that may be
Speaker 2: a factor as well. At least that's what this friend
Speaker 2: of mine insisted upon. Is that is that a factor
Speaker 2: as well?
Speaker 6: Well, you know, there's a number of factors in terms
Speaker 6: of prevention.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 6: You know, in Massachusetts at least on a lot of
Speaker 6: our state lands, you know, we're always uh look into
Speaker 6: actually use fire in a way, reintroduce fire to the
Speaker 6: landscape to get it back into a cycle. It's a
Speaker 6: natural effect on the landscape and it actually has a
Speaker 6: you know, it actually mitigates the what we call the
Speaker 6: fuel loading, and that's what they're talking about, is lowering
Speaker 6: the fuel loading it's available to produce the uh, you know,
Speaker 6: the catastrophic fire behavior that they're seeing.
Speaker 2: That would be what I guess we've referred to as
Speaker 2: a controlled burn. Correct.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's that's one of the practices. And it's you know,
Speaker 6: it's usually coupled with you know, some sort of mechanical
Speaker 6: application as well, uh, you know, and so in combination,
Speaker 6: it's all about the end result is trying to sort
Speaker 6: of manage that fuel.
Speaker 2: Loading application that I'm not familiar with that term.
Speaker 6: It can it can be typically if you if you
Speaker 6: think about for us, when we when we when we
Speaker 6: look at our pine barrens in southeastern Massachusetts, it's pitch
Speaker 6: pine and scrub oak, very volatile fuel. It actually burns
Speaker 6: like California chaparral. The only difference is we don't get
Speaker 6: those single digit humidities in the Santa Ana winds. But
Speaker 6: it's very volatile and actually it's been proven when you
Speaker 6: look at history. In nineteen fifty seven of fire and
Speaker 6: Plymouth burned fifteen thousand acres and twelve hours. Those were
Speaker 6: the right, you know, right conditions. Everything was in alignment,
Speaker 6: and that fire burned to the ocean, and so we're
Speaker 6: looking at that all the time. It's you know, fire
Speaker 6: is a natural effect that keeps that forest and down there.
Speaker 6: But we combine that with mechanical finning and mowing, especially
Speaker 6: around our human values at risks on the periphery of
Speaker 6: that state forest. And that's one of our big objectives
Speaker 6: there when we're using those practices. The challenge that they
Speaker 6: have in California is with that chaparral and some of
Speaker 6: the shrub fuel types, and you know, those areas of
Speaker 6: seeing fires repeatedly, the grasses grow back, they have their
Speaker 6: periods of moisture. Those that vegetation takes advantage of that regrows,
Speaker 6: and then the next time they get drought conditions, you know,
Speaker 6: that fuel.
Speaker 2: Is There's a second, real quick, I've only got about
Speaker 2: thirty seconds left, David. Have any you know, professional firefighters.
Speaker 2: Have they been dispatched to Massachusetts or has California asked
Speaker 2: for any help? What's going on there? If you could,
Speaker 2: if you could wrap that for me in about thirty seconds.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we don't have anybody mobilized to California. We have
Speaker 6: a system in place nationally to do that and support it.
Speaker 6: We sent two fire crews this past summer to help
Speaker 6: out in the Rocky Mountain region, and we've been we've
Speaker 6: been mobilizing crew since nineteen eighty five all over the country.
Speaker 6: But California has a lot of resources. If they exhaust
Speaker 6: those resources, they'll start looking farther into the other parts
Speaker 6: of the country and we'll be ready to go. And
Speaker 6: so we're always we're keeping the breast of the situation
Speaker 6: just in case, you know, the outside chance that it
Speaker 6: comes to that.
Speaker 2: Great David Selina, again, thanks for the work you do
Speaker 2: so that something like that never is less likely much
Speaker 2: less likely ever to take place here in Massachusetts. I
Speaker 2: appreciate your time tonight as well. Thanks so much.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having.
Speaker 2: Me, very welcome. When we get back, we're going to
Speaker 2: talk about a state Supreme Court ruling today that we'll
Speaker 2: grab a lot of attention in tomorrow mornings headlines are
Speaker 2: ruling in the MBTA Massachusetts MBTA Communities Law. Coming back
Speaker 2: on Night's side with guests right after the break