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Speaker 1: What's up, big guts? What's up, Big Gouts?

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Speaker 2: Welcome Happy Wednesday, Happy Wednesday. I hope you're all doing

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well today. We've got a fun one today for you. Boy,

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do we have a fun one. We're gonna have the

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meanest person on the internet jump on, Jay Dyer. We're

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going to do a look at Mormonism. Got a couple

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of things for y'all to look at. But first I

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want to test audio before I waste Jay's time. And

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he says this is domb so waste time, dude, goofy.

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Let me just test it to make sure it's not

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a doubling.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I don't want to. I don't want a situation

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where we're doubling.

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Speaker 2: So I'm gonna bring I'm gonna start a just pretty

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much the best cartoon that's ever existed. Thanks Jay for

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showing me this cartoon. I actually like the animation style

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of it. Just make sure it works here for you

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guys in the audience. So let me bring this on,

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and uh make sure you guys tell me if this

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is you hear it first of all, and second of all,

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if it's doubling, I don't want it doubling. Okay, Let

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me know in the chat. Okay, I don't want to

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get it too far into the gold because it's amazing.

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We gotta have Jay on here you no audio? Okay,

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that's not good. All right, let me just change this

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for a second.

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Speaker 1: Then, how about how about still? No?

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Speaker 2: Should be?

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Speaker 3: Should be?

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Speaker 2: I might have to share it within stream yard, which

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is fine with me. No, okay, okay, let me do this.

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Let me do it the other way. Then I'll bring

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it on a different style. Make sure it works this way. Okay, alright,

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here we go, Window.

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Speaker 1: Mormon.

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Speaker 2: Okay, now that this is up on this squeen, you

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guys tell me if now you hear it?

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Speaker 3: Okay, please?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, son of a I tell you a combination of

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Jay and I with technology. I tell you what?

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Speaker 1: Tell you what?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: Still? Huh? Okay, all right, hold on, let's try this.

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How about how about now.

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Speaker 2: Bill?

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Speaker 3: All right, well, just a long one second.

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Speaker 2: Then I'm gonna change one thing here. I tried to

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test this earlier, but let me do this. Lose got

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this now, let's bring this down and share it one

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more time. You just gotta make you gotta make sure

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we got this. Thank you Jay for your patience. Sir,

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Also share audio. Here we go, Here we go, Look,

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here we go. Now it should work. Now we got it.

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Here we go. Tell me you guys like us.

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Speaker 5: They say that long ago, on one of these planets,

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to an unidentified god and one of his goddess wives,

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a spirit child named Elohem was conceived. Yes, this spirit

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child was later born to human parents who gave him

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a physical body.

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Speaker 2: Is literally the best thing I've ever seen. It's all

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my inspiration for cartooning is from this video. Okay, cool,

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without further ado, welcome the meanest person on the Internet,

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Jay Dyer, glad to.

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Speaker 1: Be here and ready to hurt people's feelings.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yes, we're gonna hurt people's feelings. You've done extensive work.

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All the work has already been done against Mormonism. But

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it's fun to just kind of revisit, especially with all

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with all these cartoons and videos that you can find

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just such gold for Mormonism. It's just a it's like

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a special kind of aesthetic too. You don't find this.

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You don't find this kind of cartoon and stuff for Islam,

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do you?

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Speaker 1: You do? You do?

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Speaker 6: Oh?

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Speaker 1: There are some Okay, good? Well, I mean they could compete.

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I think we did you and I did determine that

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this might be dumber, Yes, but they can They could

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compete because you've got Satan farting, You've got eternal Qurans

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that exists next to Allah, right, but it's monotheism. You've

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got uh, bodily fluid Hadith's that I won't go into.

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So yep, similarities between these two, but.

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Speaker 2: The the kind of liberties specifically Mormons have taken. And

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to be as fair as possible, there's an early stage

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Mormonism where you find a lot of like, I hate

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to say crazier, but they're wacky. And is it fair

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to say modern Mormons are like, No, that's you know,

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we don't hold that anymore. We're moving away from that.

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Is there a sect of Mormonism who's basically saying, no,

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this early stuff that you guys are finding is not

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the real Mormonism. Are they separating themselves from it?

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Speaker 1: They seem to be moving in the direction of downplaying

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it and being a little more woke. Okay. One of

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the splits the RLDS, Right, for example, they rebranded as

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the Community Church, so they've already adopted like a non

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denominational rebrand, right, But I mean, as far as I know,

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like all this stuff is technically still there.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So pretending that someone in the Chat has only

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had a peripheral understanding of Mormonism, before we bring up

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some of these glorious links that you gave me in

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the text, can we give like a real quick summary

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of its beginnings, the kernel the seed of Mormonism.

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Speaker 1: So basically, you had a young guy, Joseph Smith, who

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was kind of an adventurer, a treasure hunter. Supposedly, maybe

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he wanted to be a little Indiana Jones before Anana Jones,

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And he seemed to be troubled about the various religious

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sects and denominations and the claims of those religions, right,

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and so he supposedly went into the woods after visiting

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different denominations and prayed, and you asked God to reveal

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to him to him the true Church, or what the

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real true religion was, And the angel Moroni apparently appeared

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to him and told him that there were golden plates,

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and that these golden plates that were buried in North

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America had the secrets of what happened to the true

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tribes of Israel, the true Church. The Church was under

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apostasy and blackout. So sometime after the death the Apostles,

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between that time and Constantine, there's this blackout that's officially

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on the Mormon website, you can go read about the

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apostasy theory. And there's this vast array of wild, sort

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of comic booky stories about the history of the tribes

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of Israel, who are apparently some forms of Native Americans

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on North America. And the Book of Mormon is that

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history of this restored True Church. And so in the

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latter days the True Church has been restored. The church

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also got new revelations where he transcribed from this magical text,

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these golden tablets, which are supposed to be Egyptian hieroglyphics.

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They got new revelations about multiple wives, you know, polygamy,

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or I should say polytheism. God was once a man

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like us. He evolved to become God the Father. He

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has a flesh body, He impregnates women. He impregnated Mary,

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so it turns into a really kind of wild The

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best way I could describe is a wild sci fi

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space opera. And movies and TV shows like battles Ar

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Galactica are actually written by and based on Mormon ideas,

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and so they have the Lords of Colob. The planet

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that God the Father is from is called Collab. It's

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out there somewhere in a distant galaxy. This is actual

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Mormon teaching. And so they believe more, probably more important

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than all that, is that any new prophet has the

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ability to rewrite and change what came before. So they

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don't understand or believe that profits have to be consistent

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with the revelation that came before. A new prophet can

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literally just erase, change, correct, and write himself into prophecies.

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And that's actually what they think prophethood is. That's why

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the Mormon Church is governed by prophets that are living

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apostles who have divine revelations. Essentially, whatever they do is

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a prophetic divine revelation. They can add new teachings. There's

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multiple source documents. The Bible's corrupted and so it has

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to be corrected by doctrine and covenants, the Book of

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Mormon and the pearlar Grade Price. They also have further

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teachings from the Mormon prophets and bishops, they call them

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bishops and apostles. H that's the restored Church. And so

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here we are it's a uniquely Americanist religion. They have

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a very intense devotion to the Constitution, kind of a

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libertarianish ethos. They believe in a white Horse prophecy that

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the Constitution towards the end of America and of the

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world will be in danger and a Mormon, the Mormon

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Church will save the Constitution in America, they believe. So

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there's a very close tie in also to politics, and

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hence the you know presidential run of Mitt Romney and

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and people like that. So and for those who don't know,

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there's also close tie to the history of the Central

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Intelligence Agency. The Mormons are very useful for recruiting UH

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operatives among and spies amongst Mormon missionaries because they go

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over in the world and learn the local languages. So

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a lot of other things I'll cull influences, Masonic influences,

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But that's the basics.

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Speaker 2: Gotcha, thank you for that. And and the is there

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influence on because because it sounds similar in the storyline

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is like scientology, like you create, there's like a cosmic

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aspect to it. There's a location, there's a there is

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there any relation between those in so far as how

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one UH fed off the other at all, or is

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it just totally different. The scientology has some some kind

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of fun that you would call goofy.

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Speaker 1: There definitely are, they're both sci fi. I'm trying to

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think of there's any potential connect The only potential connections

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I could think of is that Mormonism eventually did wet

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itself pretty closely to what we call the deep state

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because they end up having the world's foremost genealogical library.

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M And that's important for Mormons because they believe in

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being baptized for their dead relatives.

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Speaker 2: Right, you baptize and Frank, Right, you can baptize, go

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up to the grave and re it's kind of without there.

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What I found interesting is that that sort of after them,

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like retroactive baptism for the dead, they actually have someone

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stand in the place of who would be being baptized.

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For instance, when they visit the grave of v and Frank

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and say let's baptize, they actually have a stand in,

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you know, like you would a like a like on

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a Hollywood set, like a stand in for the light. Right,

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they baptized the person in place. That was interesting to

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find out.

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Speaker 1: But when you say.

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Speaker 2: Restored, that means that something was whole and was broken

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and needs to be restored. So like let's say our

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bone breaks, for us to say let's restore the bone,

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it assumes that it once was whole being repatched up.

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So from a Mormon view, what's the first whole wholeness

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of the bone that they're restoring or did they not

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get into that they don't want to.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think they think that in the Apostolic era

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there was a true church, and then they point to

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text like where Paul talks about the Apostasy, and then

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they went out from among us and so forth, and

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there will be you know, infiltrators coming into the church,

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Paul Warrens, Timothy. They point to those as proofs of

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a great Apostasy, which is from the first to third century.

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So it's actually the same arguments that you see Seven

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Day Adventists, Fundamentalist, Baptist right. They make this argument just

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like Mormons, and they may have actually stolen that argument

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from some of those groups because if you go to

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the Latter Day Saint website where they lay out their

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official position on the Great Apostasy, it sounds exactly like

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what Seven Day Adventists and others say. So I think

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there have been cult overlaps, and at least in the

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case of like Howard Hughes. You know, Howard Hughes was

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in the Mormon sphere. He was a Mormon at least

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I think for most of his life. I if he

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died in Mormon or not. But and of course Howard

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he was working very closely with the American establishment. I

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think he even had like intelligence agent, you know, secret

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service bodyguards who were he would only use Mormon bodyguards. Right, So,

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even at that time Howard Hugh was working very closely

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with the establishment in America, Mormonism was pretty pretty soon attached,

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I guess you could say, to the power structure, and

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since that time. Another really important thing to note about

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Mormonism is that it's not just a church. It's also

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an international corporation. They are chartered as a corporation. They

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have a hedge fund, they have multiple shell companies, and

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they're structured very much like Gladio was structured with all

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of its fronts and covers and shells, and so they

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have stocks they have. In fact, they used to own

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a lot of stock in corporations that sold caffeine, which

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is kind of weird because you think caffeine is evil.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's funny. Do they have colub coin or anything

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like that.

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Speaker 1: Well, they had stalking like Pepsi and Taco bell and

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it's like, well that has caffeine in But anyway.

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Speaker 2: That's bizarre. So before we get into some of these

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hilarious cartoons in the sort of deboot sphere that we're

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all in these panels and there's a lot of debating

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and stuff.

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Speaker 1: You invite Mormons, but.

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Speaker 2: Is it It seems to me just from the from

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from just looking at it, that when we debate like

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heterodox Protestantism and these kinds of things that are they're

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very rampant and modern in the West, even though Mormonism

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is just as rampant. And uh, they're here with us, right,

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I mean, they they take up a lot of real estate,

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They they create their own little mini cities and so forth.

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But is it fair to say that we don't even

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look at them in the same race as say the

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normal debate with like heterodox because you notice how we

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debate and we're like, okay, so let's debate the solas.

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Speaker 1: Let's debate this.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about the authority of the church ultimately, and

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who is the true church, whereas like it seems like

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Mormonism is just not even it's just kind of adjacent

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to that argument.

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Speaker 1: Does that make sense.

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Speaker 2: They're not like, it doesn't seem like they're in the

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same race as these other things we debate. They're like

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their own sort like.

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Speaker 1: That's a good point. One reason for that, I think

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is that Mormonism, although it's had here and there a

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couple apologists, it does not rely on logic argumentation, debate

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historical facts. They have some people who try to sort

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of craft those things after post Hawk, but it's not

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had anything really to back it up because of the

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fantastical claims of Joseph Smith, and so it's kind of

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had to rely on feelings. And this is pretty well known.

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You know, they tell you when they try to convert you,

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they say, you know, pray and see how you feel.

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And that's a huge, you know, element, the emotivism versus

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anything that with rational dialectical discourse. And so now they're

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not really known for apologetics. But for whatever reason, the

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last year or so, we have seen a real big

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push online, especially on Twitter for Mormon stuff, just like

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with Islam, and so I think we might see more

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and more of these pseudo apologists pop up. But I mean,

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as you can tell with I think we've had probably

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ten Mormons by now come on my debate streams. It

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doesn't go very far.

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Speaker 2: No, That's that's why I found it interesting. And I've

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had a sudden uptick in Mormon trolls in my chat

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and I was like, Oh, that's interesting. I've never really

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had some linger, but there's been a noticeable uptick in

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the opposition, even if their bots or whatever. I was like, Oh,

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that's that's interesting that that's happening recently. But anything else

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you want to preface before we get into this amazing

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cartoon that everyone needs to see, as far as like

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just general Mormonism for instance, is it a do you

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think Mormonism is a is any kind of threat to

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to the West the same way other things are or

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is it just like a different kind of thing that's

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just sort of in the in the peripheral as like

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A like A.

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Speaker 1: I think as people, as people get dumbed down and

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are not able to utilize critical thinking, which is happening

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at a more extreme and more extreme and more extreme rate.

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I think that the low IQ cults like Mormonism and

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Islam will appeal, unfortunately to people in the West. And

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one of the reasons that Mormonism appeals maybe you know

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so much Islam, but Mormonism appeals to people in the

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West precisely because they think of it as another Christian

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denomination that's very family centered, very wholesome, very you know,

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centered around you know, family, home, pizza, Knight or whatever.

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The thing that they have is that.

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Speaker 2: So it's like it's a form of base for some people,

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like the like you've seen the whole Truther thing, where

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especially because of Krunka, people sort of pulled out of

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modernity and they're kind of scapegoating modernity and kind of

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including the establishment all is this one giant thing like

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a technocrat, a technocratic monster, And so you saw people

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kind of eject themselves and go to the land. And

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I could see how how you just phrase that, like

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how people move toward Islam or Mormonism because it's like

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the alternative sort of well, it's kind of based. It's

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based enough, it's family, Oh, polygamy is based, and it's

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really just like more it's really just more materialism. Though

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that that seems to be a reaction to materialism, like

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where it's like leave the cities, go to the land.

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But then you're like, what, where's the church, And you're like, well,

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my garden is the church, the family is the is

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the church is. We're doing it right here. I could

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see it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a sex cult. I mean, let's just be honest. Yeah,

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Mormonism is an eternal sex cult where you will have

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spirit wives and spirit babies and spirit sex for all eternity.

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It's very close to what Mohammed promised his followers for martyrdom.

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You get the virgins in heaven. So again yet another

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parallel where essentially humans are just being manipulated by very

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basic drives like sexuality. And it's not that you know,

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sex is bad, it's not that there's not a place

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for that, but it's pretty clear that sex is a

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tool within the cult structure of Mormonism, just like with Islam. Yeah,

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to control their their population, gotcha.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the and biomis just jump in especially those are

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that is in addition to just like sort of mocking

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it and making fun of it, drawing out some of

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the parallels to the other false religions, I think people

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will find extremely interesting. Jay, you tell me when you

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want to stop any of this as well. But here, Folks,

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is the best cartoon on the Internet that I've ever seen.

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Speaker 6: Regardless of its Christian veneer, the basic tenets of Mormonism

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are in direct conflict with Biblical Christianity. The following piece

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of animation, based directly on actual Mormon publications, highlights these

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major doctrinal differences.

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Speaker 5: Mormonism teaches the trillions of planets scattered throughout the cosmos

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are ruled by countless gods who once were human like us.

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They say that long ago, on one of these planets,

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to an unidentified God and one of his goddess wives,

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a spirit child named Elohem was conceived. This spirit child

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was later born to human parents, who gave him a

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physical body. Obedience to Mormon teaching and death and resurrection,

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he proved himself worthy and was elevated to godhood as

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his father before him.

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Speaker 2: Okay, just I have to stop it there, because even

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starting and saying all of these gods were once like you,

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they were human, and they became godly over time brings

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into question, well, who initiated the beings to start? Right?

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And so it's like like it obviously we'll see it's

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an endless regress of cosmic daddies.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they thought that through. It's an infinite

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regress of cosmic daddies exactly.

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Speaker 2: It's wild because you're like, oh, what do you mean,

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we became we became like God? So they pervert theosis

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and they make it some other thing.

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Speaker 1: Well. No, Also, it's also it's a they call it

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eternal progression. So for them, it's an eternal cycle of

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evolving daddies. And to be wid Yeah, to be clear,

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that guy that right there, that that is God the Father.

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Speaker 5: M hmm.

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Speaker 1: So they think Elohem is God the Father who was

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a dude that just went full He looks like he

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man here right.

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Speaker 2: So wait, so back in the day, there was obviously

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the capacity to distinguish the plurality of Llohem, right, So that.

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Speaker 1: Was just just.

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Speaker 2: Missed on purpose? Is that an ignorance thing?

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Speaker 1: They would just probably say something like, we don't know.

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I listened to a couple of debates where this came

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up with Mormons and they just kind of say, well,

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we're not told that. That's we're not told that. We're

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not told by the way Mormons, a Muslim do the

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same thing, right, so when you get into some of

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the problems in the kronaba Alla and his attributes, they'll

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just say, we're not permitted to ask beyond that. Gotcha?

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Speaker 5: Alrighty, Mormons believe that Eloheim is their heavenly father and

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that he lives with his many goddess wives on a

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planet near a mysterious star.

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Speaker 1: Dude, he had there was not a single brunette amongst

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that harem, no redheads, no brunetts.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, here, the God of Mormonism and his wives endless

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celestial sex.

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Speaker 2: That's my favorite phrase in the whole card, endless celestial sex.

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Whoever made this critique is probably, honestly probably what a

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type of a Protestant that even made this cartoon?

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Speaker 1: Don't you think I think Jeremiah Films is some kind

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of evangelical Yeah, yeah, but again that's a that's a

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Muslim thing too, right and less. Yeah, it's just.

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Speaker 2: The funniest like it's like a band. It's it's like

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a band name.

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Speaker 5: Produced billions of spirit children spirit kipps to decide their destiny,

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the head of the spirit diapers and spirit poop.

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Speaker 2: Spirit. Well, that's funny, is that all of this? Right,

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they're having these dinners and they're deciding yeah, so and

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then they're going to figure out a plan to then

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go to Earth, to Earth. But then they get their bodies.

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But right now they have their bodies and they're eating,

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and they're and they're drinking. It's like, okay, what's this.

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What is the spirit realm that precedes the material realm

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where they receive the body.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is, by the way, just to make a

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quick note here, this is the condemned doctrine of the

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pre existence of souls, which is a neo Platonic Plato

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teaching that before we came into bodies, we had an

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ethereal you know, eternal formal existence with the monat or

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with here with elohems. So Joseph Smith is basically just

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copying and pasting from Plato Platonism, which is a big

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part of Freemasonry. By the way, the neoplatonic stuff is

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really essential to Albert Pike if you read Morals and Dogma.

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And this was a funny thing that I have to

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give Sam Schuman credit for mentioning this. He said, you know,

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if you think about it, this is kind of funny

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because when the spirit beings become humans, when they enter

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into the bodies. Yeah, alohem caused them to forget their

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prior existence, which is like, why would they have gone

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along with this plan to begin with. Yeah, it's just

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it's a stupid plan. It's like, hey, I'm gonna put

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you into bodies. It's gonna suck, but I'm gonna make

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you forget everything about your previous celestial existence.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it. It's like a black mirror, the

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new black mirror is coming out. But yeah, it's funny.

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Shout out to Sam Shimun. So the consequence of all

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these views is eternality of all things. There's no distinction

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between a creator who's eternally uncreated and a creature a

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creature essentially, that's a massive distinction, at least in this

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cartoon that I've seen. Yeah, so that's the there's no

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distinctions ultimately between these things. So so what is there?

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Speaker 1: Uncreated matter? And there's uncreated beings, many of them they

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evolve in it, create new infinite.

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Speaker 2: Intellect, you said, right, the eternal intellec.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's all of their teaching, but

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at least one of the Mormon apologists was saying that

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that which is again a neoplatonic kind of idea of

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an eternal emanation from the one that's the ones intellect.

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So there's these eternal beings that go through these cycles.

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I like the infinite regress of cosmic daddies. But that's

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not the only reason. It's politistic. There's also eternal prima material.

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Prime matter is eternal. Mormonism officially rejects creation x nilo,

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which there's multiple Biblical texts, by the way, which teach

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x neila. Now, the reason that's interesting is that if

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you bring up Second maculb Be seven to twenty eight,

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Hebrews eleven, Colossians one, eighteen, Hebrews one, John one one

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to three, all of which teach creation x nilo, Mormons

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will say, oh, but yeah, but that's the Bible's wrong,

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that those are all corrupted.

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Speaker 2: Just like the just like the Muslims.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, all the Great Heavenly Council meeting. Both of Eloheim's

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eldest sons were there. Lucifer and his brother Jesus, bros.

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Speaker 2: They're bros, Jay, They're bros. That anything.

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Speaker 1: The Mormon Jesus there looks like I'm trying to figure

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out he looks like somebody on the Internet that we've

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interacted with. I don't know, it looks a little bit

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like Rooche.

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Speaker 2: Maybe, I don't know, Yeah, Rous, like when he's uh yeah,

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when he did his final uh, that final video in

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the desert where he talked.

470
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:42,759
Speaker 1: To yeah Jesus.

471
00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:48,039
Speaker 5: A plan was presented to build planet Earth, where the

472
00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:51,200
spirit children would be sent to take on mortal bodies

473
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:56,200
and learn good from evil. Lucifer stood and made his

474
00:29:56,319 --> 00:30:00,519
bid or becoming savior of this new world. Wanting the

475
00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:04,400
glory for himself, he planned to force everyone to become gods.

476
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,839
Opposing the idea the Mormon Jesus.

477
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 2: I like, oh, Jesus is just giggling at him.

478
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, Mormon Jesus is hippie Jesus. Let him have.

479
00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:21,839
Speaker 2: Real, force him the hacky sack you don't have, dad, he.

480
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 5: Suggested, giving man his freedom of choice as on other planets.

481
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,039
The vote that followed approved the proposal of the Mormon Jesus,

482
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,400
who would become savior of the planet.

483
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 2: I love the voting aspect of the cosmic eternal intellects

484
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:42,839
at the table where they're like, well here, democracy right,

485
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,160
democratic gods.

486
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 5: Enraged, Lucifer cunningly convinced one third of the spirits destined

487
00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:57,359
for Earth to fight with him and revolt. Thus Lucifer

488
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:02,640
became the devil, and his followers the demon sent to

489
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,200
this word, they would forever be denied bodies of flesh

490
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,359
and bone. Those who remained neutral in the battle were

491
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,680
cursed to be born with black skin.

492
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: Oh this is.

493
00:31:16,119 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: Jamn, he said it. Oh my goodness. So let me

494
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,960
get this straight. Is the one third thing politically derived?

495
00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:29,960
Like you know, oh, one third of them voted for Jesus.

496
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,079
Speaker 1: No, that's from scripture. Scripture says a third of the angels.

497
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 2: Felt okay, okay, So that's where I'm wondering, because I

498
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,039
was like, I was thinking of voting. I was like,

499
00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:40,480
what a third of the Okay, at least that at

500
00:31:40,559 --> 00:31:42,640
least they're they're pulling from something there.

501
00:31:42,759 --> 00:31:43,519
Speaker 1: Yeah.

502
00:31:43,559 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: And so the neutral what about that that added neutral?

503
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 7: Uh?

504
00:31:48,839 --> 00:31:51,279
Speaker 2: The neutral positions were just the blacks, I guess.

505
00:31:51,559 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I forgot about that race element that the fallen

506
00:31:56,079 --> 00:31:59,400
spirits are born as black people. Okay, Yeah, that's a

507
00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:02,720
doctor that the doctrine that they've obviously shot away from.

508
00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, specifically the neutral it's it's a punishment for being

509
00:32:06,039 --> 00:32:10,160
neutral in this in this contr is the Mormon explanation

510
00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:11,359
for the Oh damn.

511
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 5: You see that the Negro race, the spirits that fought

512
00:32:15,559 --> 00:32:19,680
most valiantly against Lucifer, would be born into Mormon families

513
00:32:19,759 --> 00:32:23,799
un planet Earth. These would be the lighter skinned people

514
00:32:24,319 --> 00:32:26,920
or white and delights them, as the Book of Mormon

515
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:27,640
described it.

516
00:32:28,319 --> 00:32:30,359
Speaker 2: I love that, did you guys? Do you guys notice

517
00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:35,480
that little smile? Yeah, that smile transition. I got to

518
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,799
remember that for future and skinned people or white, And.

519
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: That's the part. It is actually better to be a

520
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,799
white and delightsome person like myself. So I can confirm

521
00:32:45,839 --> 00:32:48,680
that this is true right of Mormon.

522
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:54,559
Speaker 2: So they, yeah, yeah, I've had white privilege in their doctors, right.

523
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 5: Early Mormon prophets taught that Elohem and one of his

524
00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:02,119
goddess wives came to as Adam and Eve to start

525
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,960
the human race. Thousands of years later, Elohem and human

526
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,720
form once again journey to Earth from the star based colomb,

527
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,599
this time to have sex with the Oh.

528
00:33:13,759 --> 00:33:16,559
Speaker 2: Just so you guys understand what's happening. Their account of

529
00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:19,920
Elohem is God the Father. He has a material body,

530
00:33:20,039 --> 00:33:23,200
and he actually, with all of his power, he actually

531
00:33:23,839 --> 00:33:25,319
took a cosmic.

532
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: Uber to Earth from a star base. Yeah.

533
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've an approached approached the door to do

534
00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:34,000
his deed here he had to do this.

535
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 5: Part Virgin Mary in order to provide Jesus, oh damn,

536
00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:40,640
the physical body.

537
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,039
Speaker 2: All right, this is what's required.

538
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 5: After Jesus Christ grew to manhood, he took at least

539
00:33:48,519 --> 00:33:53,599
three wives, Mary, Martha, and Mary Magdalene.

540
00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: You know. One that's interesting too, is how similar the

541
00:33:57,039 --> 00:34:01,720
SYS to Greek mythology. God father Eloheim is pretty much

542
00:34:01,759 --> 00:34:04,799
acting like Zeus does with the human women that he

543
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,840
randomly just takes and has his way with.

544
00:34:09,559 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and every supposed really powerful god has another, a

545
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,760
dad god that proceeds probably keep crafting it forever because

546
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,679
they think it's you said, progression. It's regression too. At

547
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,119
the same time, they have it in both directions through

548
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:26,760
these wives.

549
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 5: The Mormon Jesus, for whom Joseph Smith claimed direct descent,

550
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:34,920
supposedly fathered a number of children before he was crucified,

551
00:34:37,039 --> 00:34:38,360
according to the book.

552
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:42,079
Speaker 2: Regelsa's Aryan Chosen Chosen Steens. That's funny Mormon.

553
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 5: After his resurrection, Jesus came to the Americas to preach

554
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,360
to the Indians, who the Mormons believe are really Israelized,

555
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:52,360
thus the.

556
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:57,559
Speaker 1: Jesus mostly Worth noting here is that when Dan Brown's

557
00:34:57,599 --> 00:35:01,719
stuff came out, if you recall pushing the idea that

558
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,880
Jesus had a wife or wives and children, that was

559
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,880
all pushed as part of the you know, holy Blood,

560
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,400
Holy Grail gnostic phenomenon in about two thousand and one

561
00:35:11,519 --> 00:35:15,719
two three, when Dan Brown was super popular, there were

562
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,199
a prominent Mormons who were also supporting the thesis and

563
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,960
putting out information as well, because they believe the same

564
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:29,039
gnostic idea. It's an ancient gnostic heresy that Jesus also

565
00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:29,719
had wives.

566
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:35,039
Speaker 2: Right. Interesting, It's like this guy was like super. I

567
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,239
wouldn't call him creative because he's just synthesizing a bunch

568
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:38,840
of things.

569
00:35:38,639 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: But very Yeah, it's a wild synthesis for sure.

570
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like a lonely boy scout in the woods.

571
00:35:45,639 --> 00:35:49,159
He's like just fantasizing about things. He's like super, He's

572
00:35:49,199 --> 00:35:50,760
just at a creative process.

573
00:35:51,079 --> 00:35:53,199
Speaker 1: It's like a sci fi nerd in the eighteen hundreds

574
00:35:53,199 --> 00:35:55,639
out in the woods. Yeah, exactly.

575
00:35:56,039 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 5: Poemanism established his church in the Americas as he had.

576
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: So wait are they whiter?

577
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 2: So how do that. They're not even red like. So

578
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,719
I'm just wondering, how do they only make and white

579
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,800
and brown but they don't have these in betweens. They didn't.

580
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:15,960
I didn't think this.

581
00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: Through add in Palestine America?

582
00:36:25,079 --> 00:36:32,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know. Who are these people? Oh yeah,

583
00:36:32,119 --> 00:36:37,039
by the way, they believe Wait, they believe Eden is

584
00:36:37,039 --> 00:36:40,039
in New Jersey or was that Missouri is the Missouri?

585
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:41,159
Speaker 5: Uh?

586
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,599
Speaker 1: I think it is. There was a phase where they

587
00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:48,840
believe that the new Millennial Kingdom and Temple was going

588
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:54,039
to be set up up there. Yeah hmhmm. And then

589
00:36:55,079 --> 00:36:57,360
that has partly to do with the split between them

590
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:58,039
and Brigham Young.

591
00:36:58,559 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

592
00:36:59,159 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 1: I'm going for memory. I went at that long time.

593
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,039
Speaker 2: But yeah, Tartaria. Yeah, someone says that's what Tartaria is.

594
00:37:04,039 --> 00:37:04,519
Speaker 3: That's funny.

595
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: By the year, I think this is og rotoscoping, this animation.

596
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 6: There are four hundred and.

597
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 5: Twenty one AD the dark skinned Indian Israelites.

598
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,079
Speaker 2: There you go, Jay, he answered, it known.

599
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,519
Speaker 5: As leiman Nites had destroyed all of the white Nephites

600
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,079
and a number of great Bats.

601
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:27,159
Speaker 1: Wait, Jay, have we.

602
00:37:27,119 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 2: Ever seen these hardcore Mormons debating the hardcore black Israelites

603
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,840
That would be kind of fun you should moderate a debate.

604
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 3: Jay, Well, I.

605
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: Didn't even think about that connection until the Mormon apologist

606
00:37:40,039 --> 00:37:42,760
Robert Gerr came on and I was saying, yeah. He

607
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,039
was saying that, well, we're the Actually he says, I'm

608
00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:47,360
from the tribe of Nephi or whatever he said. He

609
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,519
I don't know what he said, but I'm like, no,

610
00:37:49,679 --> 00:37:51,719
you're not. You're like the Black hero Iselites.

611
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:57,199
Speaker 2: Wasn't he the kind of leading cutting edge Mormon apologists

612
00:37:57,199 --> 00:37:59,519
too that you didn't even realize until laughter.

613
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: He's a Mormon apologist. I don't honestly know who the

614
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,679
leading one is. I think Trent Morn debated the leading one,

615
00:38:05,679 --> 00:38:09,519
but I'm not sure what that guy is. But one

616
00:38:09,559 --> 00:38:13,679
of the other ones, who is a leading Mormon apologist,

617
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,440
did come on, and he had even worse arguments than

618
00:38:16,519 --> 00:38:17,199
Robert Kerr.

619
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:18,079
Speaker 3: Wow.

620
00:38:18,519 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, adults.

621
00:38:22,039 --> 00:38:25,679
Speaker 5: The Knee Fights records were supposedly written on golden plates

622
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,760
and buried by Morona, the last living Nephite in the

623
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:36,239
Hill Camora. Fourteen hundred years later, a young treasure seeker

624
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,199
named Joseph Smith who was known for his tall tales.

625
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 2: So he was known for his tall Now obviously we

626
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,360
would you know, we agree with that, but that if

627
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,159
that's well poisoning. I thought that was kind of cool

628
00:38:50,199 --> 00:38:52,719
that they threw that in. He's known for his tall tale.

629
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,039
That means that there might be some evidence maybe you know,

630
00:38:56,119 --> 00:38:59,119
of where maybe there's some lost text that he wrote

631
00:38:59,159 --> 00:39:02,199
that just wasn't included in Mormonism. That was just as crazy.

632
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,639
It just happened to be his Tuesday. You know, he

633
00:39:04,679 --> 00:39:05,320
wrote it down.

634
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: He was like, idea, there used to be an old

635
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,880
YouTube channel, believe it or not, that was devoted to

636
00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:15,400
old Mormon texts and they had a vast library and

637
00:39:16,079 --> 00:39:22,000
series of videos about the influence of ritual magic texts

638
00:39:22,199 --> 00:39:25,079
in Joseph Smith. But that channel is along gone. But

639
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:26,719
that is you're correct, that is there.

640
00:39:27,679 --> 00:39:30,119
Speaker 2: Awesome, We're at twenty five to fifty. I'm going to

641
00:39:30,199 --> 00:39:33,239
keep the goals going for you guys. You don't know.

642
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,400
I will be splitting the super chats with Jay today

643
00:39:36,519 --> 00:39:39,440
for his time and efforts here, and also if you

644
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,559
want to ask him a question directly, you can super

645
00:39:42,639 --> 00:39:45,920
chat and I'll read it to him as well. So

646
00:39:46,559 --> 00:39:47,519
there you got there.

647
00:39:47,559 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 5: You go claim to have uncovered these same gold plates

648
00:39:51,679 --> 00:39:53,559
nearest home in Upstate New York.

649
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: That's where I'm from.

650
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 2: Well, I mean not technically, I mean I'm not like Buffalo,

651
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,800
but I did know this part until this cartoon. By

652
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,559
the way, that he found this stuff in upstate New York,

653
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,039
where I want to know where he's like, where exactly.

654
00:40:11,639 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 5: He is now honored by Mormons as a prophet because

655
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,760
he claimed to have had visions from the spirit world

656
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,960
in which he was commanded to organize the Mormon Church

657
00:40:21,559 --> 00:40:27,199
because all Christian creeds were an abomination. It was Joseph

658
00:40:27,199 --> 00:40:31,639
Smith who originated most of these peculiar doctrines which millions

659
00:40:31,679 --> 00:40:34,000
today believe to be true.

660
00:40:34,519 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 2: And you read at least skimmed to some high detail

661
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,639
through some of these jay for on our behalf, because

662
00:40:40,639 --> 00:40:41,559
we're not going to do it.

663
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,119
Speaker 1: I did years ago when I was actually supposed to

664
00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:51,639
debate Mitt Romney's Faith and Values guy. So there's a

665
00:40:51,639 --> 00:40:55,079
guy named Justin Hart who's a famous he used to apologetics.

666
00:40:55,079 --> 00:40:56,480
I don't think he does anymore, and he was going

667
00:40:56,559 --> 00:40:59,800
to be Mitt Romney's faith and values guy. And we

668
00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:02,840
organized the public debate we were going to do, and

669
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,679
I spent two weeks studying those texts as well as

670
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,679
there's a guy named Talmadge, who's their systematic theologian. They

671
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,840
have the Actually I was systematic theologian and he backed

672
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,079
out right at the end, so there never was a debate.

673
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: Well that's too bad, was the a Is there ever

674
00:41:20,079 --> 00:41:23,320
a kind of reality in the past where even Jay

675
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:30,119
Dyer at some age could have been drawn into Mormonism?

676
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,599
Speaker 1: Well, I will say that when I first started reading

677
00:41:33,639 --> 00:41:35,719
the Bible, when I was like eighteen or nineteen, I

678
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:42,039
definitely was challenged both by Joe's Witnesses and Mormons and

679
00:41:42,159 --> 00:41:43,920
a lot of things I didn't know the answers to.

680
00:41:44,039 --> 00:41:47,239
So again, remember these kinds of groups and sects, they

681
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:52,559
rely a lot on ignorance and uneducated people. And you'll notice,

682
00:41:52,599 --> 00:41:56,239
for example, like Joe's Witnesses, they do very well recruiting

683
00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:01,480
people in shall we say, poorer neighborhood goods and third

684
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:06,639
world countries, just like Islam. So they thrive on that.

685
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,360
And I would say that, Yeah, I remember the first

686
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,639
time I ever got challenged by somebody. It was witness

687
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,960
girl and she was trying to argue that Jesus isn't divine,

688
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,760
there's no Trinity. I was new to reading the Bible,

689
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,599
and I didn't know what to say to her, and

690
00:42:22,679 --> 00:42:26,880
so that actually kind of prompted me studying the Bible. So,

691
00:42:27,039 --> 00:42:28,800
I mean, I guess there was a possibility that at

692
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,760
one point I could have been duped to as anyone else.

693
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I look at that too. I look at how

694
00:42:34,119 --> 00:42:37,320
people recruit, even in Protestantism. You know, they had the

695
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:42,440
Starbucks and the concerts, and they have all the modern amenities,

696
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,960
and when you compare it to say Orthodoxy, it's never

697
00:42:47,119 --> 00:42:49,599
the amenities that's pulling. You know, you wouldn't want that

698
00:42:49,639 --> 00:42:52,360
to be the case anyway, but it's never those things

699
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,960
that pull people in, and it just happens to be

700
00:42:55,679 --> 00:42:59,159
I would say, a little more snobbery, and necessarily so

701
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,559
that people are actually thinking about the theology and its

702
00:43:02,559 --> 00:43:06,000
coherence as well as the practice. They're not thinking about

703
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:08,280
whether or not there's going to be like an epic

704
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,440
based solo at liturgy. And so it's kind of like

705
00:43:12,519 --> 00:43:15,239
it's been this thing on the internet, especially like I've

706
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,559
heard people go, well, we got to get better at

707
00:43:17,639 --> 00:43:22,559
quote recruiting, but better recruiting the way it looks is

708
00:43:23,039 --> 00:43:24,760
appealing to these things. So it's kind of like this

709
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,719
double edged sort of like well, you don't want to

710
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,199
appeal to those things because that's not what you're selling, right.

711
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,519
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, One thing I'd like to say that's really

712
00:43:31,559 --> 00:43:35,960
important here is that this illustrates the importance of logic

713
00:43:36,119 --> 00:43:40,119
and critical thinking, because people who think the debate's bad

714
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,320
or that you shouldn't care about that, If you don't

715
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,840
care about that, if you don't think that it's worthwhile,

716
00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:50,000
you don't have any way to delineate between our position

717
00:43:50,119 --> 00:43:53,519
is Orthodox and the Muslim and the Mormon, because the

718
00:43:53,599 --> 00:43:56,679
Muslim and the Mormon rely on very bad, low tier

719
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:02,480
argumentation to convince many, many, many uneducated simple people, and

720
00:44:02,559 --> 00:44:06,840
so you have to have some degree of critical thinking

721
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,679
and identifying the big errors and mistakes and fallacies in

722
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:15,880
these systems that invalidate them, or else there's no appeal

723
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,960
that you have that's any better than anyone else. If

724
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,960
we shouldn't debate and we shouldn't utilize critical thinking, then

725
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,360
what's going to stop people from saying, well, the Mormons

726
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,599
are nice to me, They invite me to their stuff,

727
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:28,719
they're friendly to me, they bring me over for dinner,

728
00:44:29,159 --> 00:44:33,320
they offer me, you know, pizza, Knights and Family Fund,

729
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,960
Funk City, whatever they have and so this is why

730
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:39,960
it's so important that you have to have this element

731
00:44:41,079 --> 00:44:45,360
and you can't rely on the feelies. And they literally do.

732
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,880
They say you'll have the burning in your bosom. It's

733
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,280
part of their doctrine is that when you pray and

734
00:44:50,559 --> 00:44:53,679
ask about the Book of Mormon, you'll feel this burning

735
00:44:53,679 --> 00:44:56,360
in your bosom and you'll know deep down by your

736
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,440
feelies that it's right. Yeah, and it.

737
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 2: Wasn't hot extra high talkies, right hot talkies. Well, like

738
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:08,360
when I've critiqued George Jenko and everyone he pulls onto

739
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,440
that show. It's very much feelings driven as well, which

740
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,119
is why there's such a wide space for females to

741
00:45:14,159 --> 00:45:18,519
sit to sit in on those conversations. And that's very

742
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:24,079
appealing and palpable and accessible to a certain generation of

743
00:45:24,519 --> 00:45:27,199
people who have like proclivities towards like I want to

744
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,760
feel good, Like if if I don't feel good, how

745
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,159
could it be God? How could I need to feel

746
00:45:32,199 --> 00:45:39,280
that thing? And and it's honestly, without debate about their uh,

747
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,519
you know, their their theology as a whole, you can't.

748
00:45:43,559 --> 00:45:45,760
You don't want to combat good feelings and say, well

749
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:46,880
we have a better feeling.

750
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 1: That's not we can't do that.

751
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 2: We can't say, well, our feelings are better than yours,

752
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,159
we have actually more full feelings. You know, we're we're

753
00:45:54,199 --> 00:45:57,119
not even engaging in the same argument at that point.

754
00:45:57,159 --> 00:45:59,679
You know that we're our standard isn't the feelings at all,

755
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,960
So you wouldn't We're not going to participate in that.

756
00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:03,119
Speaker 1: So it makes me wonder.

757
00:46:03,199 --> 00:46:08,639
Speaker 2: Jay sometimes when debate, when you know a debate an

758
00:46:08,639 --> 00:46:12,360
effort toward a debate is fruitful, or when you know

759
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,519
it's a waste of time ultimately and you have to

760
00:46:15,559 --> 00:46:19,280
go out at the person at a different way, like

761
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,760
from a different angle. I wondered at myself.

762
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's actually a really good question,

763
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:29,000
because I woke up actually thinking about this, Like, what

764
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,760
what value is trying to even do debate in a

765
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:37,119
in a society and a culture that is extremely I

766
00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:40,400
wouldn't say uneducated, but they're like hyper educated in very

767
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:46,440
niche areas and they don't know basics about critical thinking

768
00:46:46,599 --> 00:46:49,480
or you know, anything like that. But I think it

769
00:46:49,519 --> 00:46:54,679
does ultimately help to, you know, to the portion of

770
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:59,039
the population that is open to being corrected or open

771
00:46:59,079 --> 00:47:02,679
to the truth. Remember, a lot of these cults do

772
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,440
not pull people in on the basis of philosophy, justification

773
00:47:07,599 --> 00:47:13,599
for their principles, you know, critical thinking. It's almost always recruiting,

774
00:47:14,639 --> 00:47:17,760
like all co leaders do, weak damaged people, you know

775
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,320
what I mean. Think of till Swan, right, til Swan's

776
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:24,920
whole thing with her cult is that she baptizes people

777
00:47:25,039 --> 00:47:27,440
into their trauma so that they can be resurrected out

778
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,400
of their trauma through her. And when you listen to

779
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,719
her talk to her people and her audience, they're all

780
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:40,639
just obviously very damaged, psychologically weak people, and a narcissistic

781
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,760
psychopath like Joseph Smith or Teal Swan can pray on that.

782
00:47:44,519 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, it's a lot I've even done in my

783
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,960
twenties mid twenties, like a lot of self help stuff.

784
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:54,079
It's structured exactly the same way they you know, they

785
00:47:54,119 --> 00:47:59,480
break you down psychologically. They do some sort of inverted

786
00:47:59,519 --> 00:48:03,519
perverse sort of confession style where you air all of

787
00:48:03,559 --> 00:48:08,079
your your your items, so to speak. And then once

788
00:48:08,119 --> 00:48:11,119
you're broken down fully, then through the work or whatever

789
00:48:11,119 --> 00:48:13,679
they're gonna call the thing, right, they're gonna say, now

790
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:17,519
through this, you're you're gonna be essentially saved. They just

791
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:19,440
have a different term for what saved is they would

792
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:24,800
just say like revitalize, restore, transformed of something. They really

793
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,920
just change the process and the practice of a church

794
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,960
and the invert in really creative ways. But it's it's

795
00:48:33,039 --> 00:48:36,079
like to someone who's ignorant, it's subtle, so they won't

796
00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:39,119
really notice that. They'll just go this is good. I

797
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,840
like it, I feel good, my relationships are good. Now.

798
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,119
It's like it becomes a tool, well, a lot like

799
00:48:45,199 --> 00:48:48,960
Jordan Peterson still at this point, who knows I believe

800
00:48:49,119 --> 00:48:52,360
actually knows enough about the truth to make a choice,

801
00:48:52,559 --> 00:48:55,719
a willful choice, and still sort of reserves this sort

802
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,079
of a Swiss army knife approach to Christianity where.

803
00:48:58,880 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: It's like it's like the best.

804
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,199
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, it's like I hope I meet

805
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,360
him one day and I could, you know, push him,

806
00:49:06,519 --> 00:49:08,280
nudge him a little bit further, but.

807
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: Who knows well, And it's like a guy was saying

808
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,039
to me on Twitter today, He's like, well, you know

809
00:49:13,559 --> 00:49:16,519
Mormons this that, but you know they have the same

810
00:49:16,559 --> 00:49:21,400
basic Christian principles. No again, this is again, this is

811
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,079
their pr The way that the Mormons do pr is

812
00:49:24,119 --> 00:49:28,360
to present themselves as one of amongst the many Christian denominations,

813
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,639
and through sort of presumed the humanism, we can all

814
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:36,159
kind of find commonalities. There's no commonalities in a system

815
00:49:36,199 --> 00:49:42,519
that's insane. Polytheistic bears no similarity whatsoever to what we

816
00:49:42,559 --> 00:49:49,920
as Orthodox Christians believe. Remember, cults thrive on word, concept, fallacies,

817
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,960
and ambiguities. And so they will say to you, we

818
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,480
believe in the three God, the Father, the Son, and

819
00:49:56,519 --> 00:49:59,360
the Holy Spirit. We believe they have a kind of unity,

820
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,599
and we believe that they are helpful and useful in

821
00:50:02,639 --> 00:50:05,960
our salvation. Right, and then when you ask them really

822
00:50:06,039 --> 00:50:08,159
what those things mean, I mean's nothing like what we

823
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:09,199
would believe.

824
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 2: Right, just use the word include everybody who assigned, who

825
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,400
associates to that word, and go well, of course, like

826
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,559
the same thing with Christ. I believe there's a guy

827
00:50:17,639 --> 00:50:20,760
my server, he said, I believe in the Christ. Anytime

828
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,559
someone puts that the before, I'm like, you know, red flag.

829
00:50:25,079 --> 00:50:28,760
This is just like this ambiguous sort of consciousness that

830
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,199
you close your eyes and try to engage with, and

831
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,719
you just call it like the God Whisper or something

832
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,400
like that, right exactly, And maybe that's answers further, Like

833
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,639
I asked before, why is it Mormonism sort of sits

834
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:45,840
just outside the sort of panel debate sphere. And I

835
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,000
think what you're saying is what it is is that

836
00:50:48,039 --> 00:50:53,920
at least even Trinitarians who know what they mean by trinitarian,

837
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,920
who who might have a bunch of things wrong, you

838
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,760
could at least go, Okay, you're arguing for a trinitarian

839
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:05,280
position and you're not totally inverting what it's meant by

840
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,360
a trying God. Whereas the mortgage you are, like, we

841
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,519
can't even include them in the in the debate, it's

842
00:51:10,519 --> 00:51:14,239
like it's like apples and oranges, Whereas it's like within

843
00:51:14,559 --> 00:51:18,559
orthodoxy debates with heterodoxy, it's like a it's like a

844
00:51:18,639 --> 00:51:22,280
ripe orange with like a slightly discolored, blemished orange. At

845
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,360
least there you can call them similar things. Whereas Mormonism,

846
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,880
as as we continue this cartoon, is is a wild approach.

847
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 5: By maintaining a rigid code of financial and moral requirements,

848
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:41,440
and through performing sacred temple rituals for themselves and the dead,

849
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,360
the latter day saints hope to prove their worthiness and

850
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:46,960
thus become gods.

851
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 2: Okay, well, we need Europe because they didn't include this,

852
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:55,480
but you probably know more than most about what what

853
00:51:55,559 --> 00:51:56,480
are these rituals?

854
00:51:56,599 --> 00:51:59,559
Speaker 1: Jay, Well, this is an element that I think does

855
00:51:59,639 --> 00:52:03,760
perhaps in some way appeal to some people in the

856
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:13,079
West who, through their low church Baptist, Congregationalists, Charismatic, Pentecostal,

857
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,239
you know, Church of Christ, Bible belt tendencies, have a

858
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,400
very low view of rituals and ritualism. And so because

859
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,159
Mormonism does re interject a lot of this sort of

860
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:30,199
temple ritual mysticism, ceremonies, things that are tossed out by

861
00:52:30,199 --> 00:52:33,559
a lot of the Radical Reformation tradition, that might be

862
00:52:33,559 --> 00:52:35,760
an element that appeals to people too who don't know

863
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,480
anything about religion and are new to this, and they say, well,

864
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:41,760
I look at the Old Testament, I see God has

865
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,480
this temple and he's got these rituals, and I look

866
00:52:44,519 --> 00:52:47,000
at the Protestant churches and there's none of that. So

867
00:52:47,559 --> 00:52:50,400
my Mormon church has this priesthood and they actually believe

868
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:57,159
in like an continued ironic Melchizedekian type priesthoods. They believe

869
00:52:57,199 --> 00:53:01,480
in these Apostolic successors, right, so they have this facsimile

870
00:53:02,679 --> 00:53:07,519
of early Judeo slash Christian principles. I'm not talking about

871
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:10,079
Judeo Christianity. I know that that's not a thing. I'm

872
00:53:10,119 --> 00:53:13,239
just saying, like, what the early Hebrew religious tradition had

873
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,519
in terms of the temple and the synagogue, what the

874
00:53:15,559 --> 00:53:18,639
early Church had in terms of adopting that temple synagogue model.

875
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,679
They're actually kind of hitting on something that's missing in

876
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,559
a lot of the low Church stuff that may appeal

877
00:53:24,559 --> 00:53:27,920
to people. However, this is actually an admission in our

878
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:33,159
favor that this never went away, the Apopolic succession, the altar,

879
00:53:33,599 --> 00:53:39,320
the Orthodox Christian temples, all of those things, the eucharistic sacrifice,

880
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,559
the communion with those that have gone on, we pray

881
00:53:43,599 --> 00:53:46,280
for the dead. All that already exists in the Orthodox Church.

882
00:53:47,519 --> 00:53:50,039
Speaker 2: So it's like they invert some of the truth, but

883
00:53:50,559 --> 00:53:53,199
do they add anything in ritualistically that's just.

884
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:57,639
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm pretimasonic essentially. So a lot of these

885
00:53:57,679 --> 00:54:06,679
temple rituals are directly borrowed from Joseph Smith's time in freemasonry. Gotcha, Okay.

886
00:54:07,679 --> 00:54:10,559
Speaker 5: The Mormons teach that everyone must stand at the final

887
00:54:10,639 --> 00:54:14,519
judgment before Joseph Smith, the Mormon Jesus and.

888
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: Those Mormons.

889
00:54:18,199 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, they don't have that the Mormon. I

890
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,039
like how they just said the Mormon Jesus.

891
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 1: But they apparently believe that the Holy Spirit will also

892
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:33,320
eventually become flesh. So oh interesting, that's a Mormon. So

893
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:37,880
everything that exists in spirit wants to be flesh so

894
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,639
that they can become uh, you know, so they can

895
00:54:40,679 --> 00:54:42,519
get late. I guess, I guess.

896
00:54:42,559 --> 00:54:45,119
Speaker 2: I mean that's what's weird, is like the desire for

897
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:49,280
the eternal, eternally uncreated is become matter so that it

898
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,119
could eventually transcend matter.

899
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,679
Speaker 1: Apparently they think that matter is just a more sublime

900
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,159
version of spirit. Her spirit is matter, I should say,

901
00:55:01,159 --> 00:55:04,880
so they think that spirit is another kind of matter.

902
00:55:06,159 --> 00:55:10,039
And I'm sure there's probably underlying dualism there that there's

903
00:55:10,039 --> 00:55:15,400
some tension because if spirit is a more sublime form

904
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:17,840
of matter, why would spirit want to become matter. I

905
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,519
don't know, because it's all because of Coomb pods, it is,

906
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,440
And I know people are looking for these really, you know,

907
00:55:24,519 --> 00:55:28,239
like that simple It's like, what's the metaphysical principles behind

908
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,639
their view of uncreativity. It's just a sex goal, man,

909
00:55:30,679 --> 00:55:33,719
What are you thinking? It's just it's a sex goal man,

910
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:35,599
it's not metaphysics. Yeah.

911
00:55:36,599 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes we give people too much charity. We're like, well,

912
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:41,719
let's just yeah, exactly, well, let's look into the deep

913
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,719
aspects of their you know. No, sometimes it's just.

914
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,639
Speaker 5: That the eternal marriage ceremony expect to become polygamous gods

915
00:55:50,679 --> 00:55:55,039
in the celestial Kingdom, rule over other planets, and spawn

916
00:55:55,119 --> 00:56:01,119
new families throughout eternity. The Mormons thank God for Joseph Smith,

917
00:56:01,599 --> 00:56:03,920
who claimed that he had done more for us than

918
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:06,719
any other man, including Jesus Christ.

919
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't actually know that. I didn't know they

920
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:16,480
went that far more, including Jesus Christ. But then they're like, wait, wait,

921
00:56:16,519 --> 00:56:21,320
Jesus Christ, from your view, was there before the Well, no,

922
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,760
he must have been a man. This is so confusing, dude.

923
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,199
If they think that the gods were once men, but

924
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,920
then the celestial gods made spirit babies who then became men.

925
00:56:31,119 --> 00:56:35,320
Were those spirit babies once men also before they become spirit?

926
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:37,519
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure if they were all gods? I'm

927
00:56:37,519 --> 00:56:38,000
not sure.

928
00:56:38,639 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 5: Wow. The Mormons believed that he died as a martin,

929
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,280
shed his blood for us so that we too may

930
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:49,280
become gods.

931
00:56:53,559 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 6: Although there are thousands of Mormon churches throughout the world.

932
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,920
There are only a few dozen Mormon temples. These men

933
00:57:00,039 --> 00:57:02,599
ass of structures play a vital role in the Mormons

934
00:57:02,639 --> 00:57:06,280
quest for Godhood. Mormons must engage in a series of

935
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,440
occultic rituals inside the temple in order to.

936
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 2: Be I have to I'll read.

937
00:57:11,159 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 1: Notice that the temple literally copy paste Masonic symbols.

938
00:57:15,559 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 2: Right right, All their symbols are the same. Look, yep, yeah,

939
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,639
he's just I mean, he could have he could have

940
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,480
designed a little differently, like you can you can steal

941
00:57:25,519 --> 00:57:28,320
someone's song and the chords, but at least change the lyrics.

942
00:57:28,559 --> 00:57:31,199
He's not even changing much of the lyrics at all.

943
00:57:31,719 --> 00:57:33,599
Justin Nley says, I have I'll read all of these

944
00:57:33,639 --> 00:57:35,000
at the end, but I just thought this was funny.

945
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,800
Justin says, for five dollars, it's not a sex cult.

946
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:43,239
J soaking is not sex j Okay soaking. That's where

947
00:57:43,239 --> 00:57:46,519
they move the bed around, Jay so that they so

948
00:57:46,639 --> 00:57:50,000
you're not actually doing it right, premarital sex. This is

949
00:57:50,039 --> 00:57:57,880
a thing Jay, they to avoid premarital sex. They basically

950
00:57:57,960 --> 00:57:59,960
it's very Jewish by the way, like it's like where

951
00:58:00,159 --> 00:58:04,639
not working. I'm not exerting energy. They the people lay

952
00:58:04,719 --> 00:58:08,079
on top of each other, right, do the mechanics of sex,

953
00:58:08,239 --> 00:58:12,199
but they don't move. They friends shake the bed for them,

954
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,079
and so they're it's not considered doing the work.

955
00:58:16,159 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: So that's very that's like you know workaround right, Like,

956
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:26,199
I mean, I think people should keep in mind that

957
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:32,719
there is this sort of probably cabalistic element in the

958
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:37,199
Joseph Smith ideology from Masonry and from Neoplatonism. And I

959
00:58:37,239 --> 00:58:40,400
wouldn't be surprised given this claim of being the you

960
00:58:40,519 --> 00:58:42,119
know lost tribes of Israel.

961
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 2: What just reading account zones that no thrusting, no lusting, right.

962
00:58:48,239 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: Go on, No, I mean it's it's it's not surprising

963
00:58:52,519 --> 00:59:00,760
to me given the elements of the Talmudick solomonic ideology

964
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:07,079
here that there's also some of the legalistic workarounds going

965
00:59:07,159 --> 00:59:12,119
on here. Yeah, cults. Remember also, this is a principle

966
00:59:12,119 --> 00:59:15,039
a lot of people forget about cults, is that even

967
00:59:15,119 --> 00:59:17,840
Bible belt you know, fake you know Bible from for

968
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:23,000
religion people, they usually replace actual teachings about virtue and

969
00:59:23,119 --> 00:59:25,320
vice that we have in the church. They usually replace

970
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:30,840
it with some weird legalism. Right, So Christianity becomes not

971
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:34,400
drinking enough smoking cigarettes like in the Bible belt, the

972
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:36,719
Holy Rollers in the Bible belt, right, So you're not

973
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,639
actually learning to tink commandments and cultivating the virtues and

974
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:43,559
trying to you know, stamp out the vices. You're engaging

975
00:59:43,679 --> 00:59:49,360
in this pharasical sort of legalism about things that are

976
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:54,400
external and not the changing of the internal man. It's

977
00:59:54,559 --> 00:59:56,960
just these stupid external legalities.

978
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:00,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, what didn't one of the Rockefellers. I

979
01:00:00,239 --> 01:00:02,239
think one of the I think one of those guys

980
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,559
developed the sort of like dildonics or something where you

981
01:00:05,679 --> 01:00:08,920
connect things to your computer where you're like, it's not

982
01:00:09,119 --> 01:00:12,079
really I'm not doing anything here. It's the computer doing

983
01:00:12,119 --> 01:00:13,840
all the work. It's the machine doing all the work.

984
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,039
That's such a good point. Where you're not healing the soul.

985
01:00:18,159 --> 01:00:22,159
You're not you're not working on internally the healing spiritually.

986
01:00:22,639 --> 01:00:27,760
You're fixing external problems and reorganizing matter so that it

987
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,039
doesn't look like you're doing the bad thing. It's just

988
01:00:30,119 --> 01:00:34,800
a different way of doing it. It's almost like if it's.

989
01:00:34,679 --> 01:00:38,239
Speaker 1: Like the Pharisees, you clean the externals, you washed the

990
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:41,599
pots and the externals the inside you're full of dead men's.

991
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:45,519
Speaker 2: Bones and yeah, yeah, it's uh. You see it ever,

992
01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:46,599
you see it in a lot of places.

993
01:00:46,719 --> 01:00:50,559
Speaker 6: Become a candidate for godhood, only an elite selection of

994
01:00:50,639 --> 01:00:53,719
devout Mormons are allowed to enter. To do so, the

995
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,320
potential Mormon God must adhere to a strict code of ethics,

996
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:02,119
including abstinence from tobacco, caffeine based products, and paying a

997
01:01:02,159 --> 01:01:04,800
full time to the Mormon Church and wearing of the

998
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:07,360
magic Mormon underwear twenty got him.

999
01:01:07,199 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 2: On right now four hours a day.

1000
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 4: He has to receive a satisfactory interview from his bishop

1001
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,920
and from his state president. There he's asked or she

1002
01:01:18,039 --> 01:01:22,960
has asked certain rather penetrating questions about their worthiness or morality.

1003
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,159
If he's a full tithe payer, that is the only

1004
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,679
way that we can be with our heavenly Father, Otherwise

1005
01:01:30,199 --> 01:01:31,719
we could not be in his presence.

1006
01:01:32,639 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 6: The motivation for the Mormon male to commit to such

1007
01:01:35,519 --> 01:01:40,400
requirements is the promise of endless celestial sex with thousands

1008
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,840
of goddess wives, along with a personal planet to rule

1009
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:47,440
and reign over. However, Mormon males who failed.

1010
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: With thousands of goddess wives. If you read the Greek

1011
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:55,760
mythology about the goddesses. Yeah, Like, if you're worried about

1012
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,960
putting up with polygamy and four or five wives, could

1013
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,079
you imagine the power in the insanity of thousands of

1014
01:02:02,199 --> 01:02:08,000
chaotic goddess wives like Aphrodite and Hera. Oh my gosh.

1015
01:02:09,559 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 2: By the way, these images you can these are available

1016
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:12,800
for n f.

1017
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:19,679
Speaker 6: T over thousands goddess wives, along with a personal planet

1018
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:23,159
to rule and reign over. However, Mormon males.

1019
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 1: Who anti ant bear pigs and that's a lot of

1020
01:02:25,519 --> 01:02:27,039
fail necessary.

1021
01:02:27,119 --> 01:02:30,599
Speaker 2: That's my favorite one right there. That's a really good one.

1022
01:02:30,679 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: Because have you do you remember enders game? M hm,

1023
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,119
that's another Mormon written story too, because you have these

1024
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,519
universe there's like a Mormon planet, a Catholic planet, and

1025
01:02:41,519 --> 01:02:44,360
a Protestant planet, and.

1026
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:48,119
Speaker 2: They're all fighting each other, and does the Mormon one win?

1027
01:02:48,239 --> 01:02:49,679
I forget the results.

1028
01:02:49,679 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: I'd only read the first one in game. I don't

1029
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:53,000
remember the other one. I read the other ones.

1030
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 6: The sary requirements risk being castrated upon their entrance.

1031
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 2: To heaven, so you can I didn't know that parts

1032
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,559
get your bill cut your cosmic junk off.

1033
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:07,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, oh.

1034
01:03:07,239 --> 01:03:10,079
Speaker 4: Man, See why the temple is so important to the

1035
01:03:10,159 --> 01:03:13,639
Latter day saint, because if he is worthy to go

1036
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:17,360
on to the Temple and there receive the sacred ordinances

1037
01:03:17,519 --> 01:03:22,000
and covenants and keep them, he can eventually grow into

1038
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:23,840
becoming a God himself.

1039
01:03:24,719 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 2: Tell me who God the Father is to you?

1040
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:31,039
Speaker 1: He is like you and I every human being on

1041
01:03:31,079 --> 01:03:31,719
the face of the earth.

1042
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:33,159
Speaker 7: Oh is he a man?

1043
01:03:33,519 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 1: Yes? He is?

1044
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 8: How did he get to be God?

1045
01:03:42,119 --> 01:03:45,559
Speaker 1: That's like, that's a great moment right there. One thing

1046
01:03:45,599 --> 01:03:48,679
I would add to is that remember that their conception,

1047
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,320
which they actually try to appeal to Orthodox people all

1048
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:55,039
the time, when they hear us talking about deification of diosis,

1049
01:03:55,159 --> 01:03:57,719
they think that it's the same type of idea. And

1050
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,639
I don't know what they're going for is a ritual

1051
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:06,159
magic approach to apotheosis where you literally become God the

1052
01:04:06,239 --> 01:04:10,039
Father on another planet with celestial wives. That is not

1053
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,559
the Orthodox teaching of theosis or becoming like God by

1054
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,960
participation on created grace. So remember, Mormons believe in this

1055
01:04:18,159 --> 01:04:22,920
very externalist, works based salvation where they're attaining the merits

1056
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:26,559
to become some sort of apotheosized human God. It is

1057
01:04:26,719 --> 01:04:30,719
not the Orthodox doctrine of participating in immortality and grace

1058
01:04:31,239 --> 01:04:33,119
as an energy to become like.

1059
01:04:33,159 --> 01:04:36,719
Speaker 2: God, right, and that other distinction of like if if God,

1060
01:04:37,119 --> 01:04:40,199
God has a nature and the nature of God is eternal,

1061
01:04:41,119 --> 01:04:45,079
if you become God, but you're already eternal, You've already

1062
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:49,480
obtained a type of God nature anyway, So they would

1063
01:04:49,519 --> 01:04:50,800
have to have this subcategory.

1064
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:51,719
Speaker 1: It's like a spectrum.

1065
01:04:52,199 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, spectrum. Yeah, it's a spectrum of God. But

1066
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:56,960
they couldn't tell you what it was, right.

1067
01:04:57,039 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: The Asperger spectrum of godhood where you're like, I'm like

1068
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:03,880
an eighty seven God. I cannot wait to be ninety

1069
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:05,119
percent God in five years.

1070
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:07,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so bizarre.

1071
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:11,079
Speaker 1: You're like, well, how is the This is a classic

1072
01:05:11,159 --> 01:05:15,519
metaphysical problem for any kind of polytheistic type position. It's like,

1073
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:21,159
how do you split up an apportion godhood? Right? I mean,

1074
01:05:21,239 --> 01:05:25,960
if the divine nature is non participable and simple and

1075
01:05:26,119 --> 01:05:30,079
as we believe, is orthodox and one, then there's no

1076
01:05:30,639 --> 01:05:34,239
fifty percent divine nature, there's no eighty six percent divine nature.

1077
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:35,880
It doesn't have parts to it.

1078
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:41,559
Speaker 2: Right, right, doesn't. Yeah, so they would they're basically have

1079
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:46,000
to appeal to splitting God up into particulars and choosing

1080
01:05:46,119 --> 01:05:49,159
which particulars we they believe.

1081
01:05:49,599 --> 01:05:53,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, God Father God, the Father Elohem, Jesus and the

1082
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:57,719
Spirit are literally three discrete, distinct, different, separate gods.

1083
01:05:58,199 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they don't solve they don't solve this problem

1084
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:02,320
of the you know.

1085
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you mentioned the trinity, they'll say, well,

1086
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:07,480
we believe in a kind of a version of that.

1087
01:06:07,719 --> 01:06:13,519
But they're just one in that in that they have divinity. Yeah,

1088
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:17,920
so it's no different than like Zeus and you know,

1089
01:06:18,039 --> 01:06:18,920
Athena or whatever.

1090
01:06:19,719 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 2: Do they have a view that you have to died

1091
01:06:21,639 --> 01:06:25,719
then as human to become like the human father, who's

1092
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:26,960
also has a body.

1093
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:34,519
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I'm not sure he has the best.

1094
01:06:34,519 --> 01:06:39,960
I gotta I gotta listen. Listen to this every human

1095
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:40,960
being on the face of the earth.

1096
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 2: Oh is he a man?

1097
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:45,039
Speaker 1: How did he get to be gone?

1098
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know, I should blow a bubble with

1099
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:56,519
my gum right now.

1100
01:06:57,239 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 1: He's perfect.

1101
01:06:59,159 --> 01:07:02,719
Speaker 2: He's perfect, and every just regurgitate, right. So that's a

1102
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:05,559
killer Wow. Whoever the chick was who asked that, that's

1103
01:07:05,679 --> 01:07:09,119
that's a killer question right there, because if you can't

1104
01:07:09,159 --> 01:07:12,039
answer that question, I mean, that's pretty much the the

1105
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:16,239
defeater to the whole view. In addition to everything else.

1106
01:07:16,119 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 1: That's well Smith adding himself to Genesis fifty to predict himself.

1107
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow, that's uh, that was one. Now

1108
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,280
you sent me two others. There's a there is a

1109
01:07:27,679 --> 01:07:31,559
call up Colobe and the Earth, which we'll uh examine here.

1110
01:07:32,079 --> 01:07:35,159
But let's let's look through some super chats first. So

1111
01:07:35,239 --> 01:07:38,199
we caught up and we'll move on. Justin Henley two dollars?

1112
01:07:38,239 --> 01:07:39,679
Speaker 1: Are you obs? Using obs?

1113
01:07:40,239 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 2: Using obs only as a oh, you're asking me for

1114
01:07:44,039 --> 01:07:47,320
I got to figure out Justph maximum five dollars JB

1115
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:50,360
and Dyer by Fire Dyer. Thank you so much for that,

1116
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:55,280
Sean says, Smith translated and dated the Book of Abraham.

1117
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:57,840
Quote it was actually the Book of the Dead, a

1118
01:07:58,000 --> 01:07:59,400
pagan text with horse.

1119
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,159
Speaker 1: You want to well, this one is new to me

1120
01:08:02,599 --> 01:08:04,920
that somebody pointed out the other day that one of

1121
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:08,360
their one of their references, this so called Book of Abraham,

1122
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:12,280
is just another copy and paste job that he sort

1123
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:14,559
of ripped. So there seems to be a lot of

1124
01:08:14,639 --> 01:08:19,359
copy and pasting going on with Joseph Smith. Yeah, Jube

1125
01:08:19,399 --> 01:08:20,199
says for five dollars.

1126
01:08:20,199 --> 01:08:23,479
Speaker 2: Since Mormonism is a hodgepodge of ancient heresies, do you

1127
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,840
think we could say that they have the most heresy

1128
01:08:27,079 --> 01:08:28,279
arch succession.

1129
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,720
Speaker 1: Well, I would say no, just because you can find

1130
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,479
you know, the Assyrian Church of the East, or you know,

1131
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:41,119
people who are continued in historians who have Apostolic succession

1132
01:08:41,159 --> 01:08:43,520
quote unquote, So I would say that's more of a

1133
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:48,439
heresyarch succession. Mormonism is just more like a uh it's

1134
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:53,960
it's like a polytheistic pagan system with a Christian veneer.

1135
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:58,279
And so I wouldn't even say it's even Christian. It's

1136
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:02,640
just it's just a week just it's a sci fi

1137
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:08,920
Greek polytheistic scam. I don't know what else to call it.

1138
01:09:09,119 --> 01:09:10,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's bizarre. That's why it's.

1139
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:15,399
Speaker 1: At least in Islam you have like centuries of Muslims

1140
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:20,199
doing debates and being interested in logic.

1141
01:09:20,239 --> 01:09:24,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I think, I mean, I think Islam is

1142
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:26,079
is a you know, pretty.

1143
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:28,359
Speaker 1: Goofy It's got a lots to it, had deaths, but

1144
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:33,159
you've at least had you know, Arabist Islamic philosophers and

1145
01:09:33,239 --> 01:09:38,760
theologians and logicians, and at least Islam is not as

1146
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:40,760
wild as this is. This is just wild.

1147
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:44,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like the liberties that Joseph Smith took.

1148
01:09:45,319 --> 01:09:47,960
He could have just not appealed to the Bible at

1149
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:51,319
all and just made up an entirely new completely which

1150
01:09:51,359 --> 01:09:52,199
is it's close.

1151
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:54,199
Speaker 1: To well, but remember think about the eighteen hundreds. If

1152
01:09:54,199 --> 01:09:57,039
you want to draw away people from you know, uneducated

1153
01:09:57,079 --> 01:10:01,479
idiot people from Baptists and Presbyterian churches and and Congregational churches,

1154
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:04,199
you need to utilize the King James because that's what

1155
01:10:04,279 --> 01:10:08,479
they were using. By the way, write the Book of

1156
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:13,640
Mormon in King James, which is funny. Yeah, why would

1157
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:16,760
the Book of Mormon be translated into you know, King

1158
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:21,039
James in the in the eighteen hundreds. But but yeah,

1159
01:10:21,199 --> 01:10:24,199
so it's it's it's wild.

1160
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is ortho Joe nineteen ninety nine just want

1161
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:29,279
to tell you and Jay that you guys are the

1162
01:10:29,359 --> 01:10:31,560
best and funniest debaters on the internet right now. Thank

1163
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:34,880
you so much for that. I appreciate that. Joe deut

1164
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:37,560
Joel for ninety nine says, cheers, Jay and Jim Bob.

1165
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:40,880
What are your takes on prophetic YouTube channels? Kingdom marriage

1166
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:45,319
prophecies and YouTube are uploaded daily, div Rev. I don't

1167
01:10:45,319 --> 01:10:47,520
follow much. You cover some of these well.

1168
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:52,199
Speaker 1: I just did a video where we outlined. I'm gonna

1169
01:10:52,239 --> 01:10:54,319
clip it because I think I made it a members talk,

1170
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:56,800
but I spent about ten to fifteen minutes in the

1171
01:10:57,079 --> 01:11:01,800
Megachurch Madness Part two, I covered the finality of divine

1172
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:05,119
revelation and when we when we understand those passages in

1173
01:11:05,199 --> 01:11:09,439
those texts, this cuts off any cult. So, whether it's Mormons,

1174
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:15,159
or whether it's Charismatics, whether it's Muslims, any cult premised

1175
01:11:15,279 --> 01:11:20,279
on new revelations that supersede or correct or change or

1176
01:11:20,359 --> 01:11:23,600
reject the previous are immediately disqualified.

1177
01:11:24,319 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, because, in other words, the faith being revealed and

1178
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:34,119
it becoming a part of the reality, hard reality.

1179
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 1: That is, once we're all delivered. Yeah.

1180
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:39,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's nothing new to there's nothing new to

1181
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:42,239
do or to figure out. But all of these people

1182
01:11:42,319 --> 01:11:44,359
in these channels are doing all of this work and

1183
01:11:44,399 --> 01:11:46,720
trying to figure out the decoding. Right, it's like a

1184
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:49,119
massive it's nosis. And if you really.

1185
01:11:50,079 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 1: Anybody from anybody from the outset claiming to speak from

1186
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:58,720
the Holy Spirit and predict the future or any of

1187
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:02,439
that is immediately disqualified as a fraud. Yeah. There are

1188
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:05,439
no more prophets like the Old Testament prophets, and that

1189
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:10,079
actually is relevant to Mormonism, because when Jesus says that

1190
01:12:10,199 --> 01:12:12,079
in Luke sixteen sixteen, he says the law and the

1191
01:12:12,159 --> 01:12:16,600
prophets were until John. Since that time, the Kingdom is

1192
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:20,359
preached and people are pressing into it. So the Kingdom

1193
01:12:20,399 --> 01:12:24,119
of God is what the prophets were looking forward to.

1194
01:12:24,399 --> 01:12:27,439
When the Messiah comes, the kingdom is here. It's the Church.

1195
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:30,199
He identifies the church as the kingdom in Matthew sixteen.

1196
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:34,880
So the idea that there would be this ongoing office

1197
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:39,359
of an Old Testament prophet is automatically excluded. And in fact,

1198
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:42,880
we know that Joseph Smith understood that because he changed

1199
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:46,000
Luke sixteen sixteen to not say that. It's reads totally

1200
01:12:46,039 --> 01:12:48,359
different because he needs to be a continuation of an

1201
01:12:48,399 --> 01:12:50,000
Old Testament prophet, just like Muhammad.

1202
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:55,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what would be the difference with someone Let's

1203
01:12:55,119 --> 01:12:58,279
say they have like a YouTube thing and they and

1204
01:12:58,359 --> 01:13:01,560
they start sort of looking at reality and trying to

1205
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:06,479
measure it against scripture, and they make they're not making predictions,

1206
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:11,439
but they're maybe making making an analysis of let's say

1207
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,880
end times in general, just end times, you know, closer

1208
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:19,720
to the end of humanity or whatever. It's true that

1209
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:24,359
even in a let's say an Orthodox priest could do

1210
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:27,399
that kind of thing. Right, they're not making new predictions,

1211
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:30,560
but they're doing like some sort of general analysis of

1212
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:33,359
where we are right now. But there, but the difference

1213
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:35,560
would be correct me if I'm wrong. They wouldn't make

1214
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:39,600
declarative statements of fact about where we are.

1215
01:13:40,079 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 1: So if an elder or someone has clairvoyance or they

1216
01:13:43,079 --> 01:13:46,279
see something that's coming, it's not on the same level

1217
01:13:46,439 --> 01:13:51,520
as public divine revelation. And we know that because well,

1218
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:53,119
first of all, the faith was once for all delivered

1219
01:13:53,119 --> 01:13:55,479
to the Saints when John the Apostle died. There's no

1220
01:13:55,640 --> 01:14:00,039
more public divine revelations. It's done, it ceased. Yeah, and

1221
01:14:00,119 --> 01:14:01,760
that's why even at the end of the Book of Revelation,

1222
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:05,319
providentially it says you can't add to this text. There's

1223
01:14:05,359 --> 01:14:09,399
no new public revelations. So when you get acumenical councils,

1224
01:14:09,399 --> 01:14:14,159
for example, they're not adding new divine revelations. They're explicating

1225
01:14:14,319 --> 01:14:17,680
what was already there, this body of teaching, this fixed

1226
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:20,880
body of doctrines that the Apostles hand down, which is

1227
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:23,640
the absolute faith what Jude says was once for all delivered,

1228
01:14:24,199 --> 01:14:27,479
So it can't be altered. It doesn't get new updates,

1229
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:29,920
it doesn't get new downloads, it doesn't get there's no

1230
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:34,800
new prophetic voices, because we know that was already condemned

1231
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:36,760
in the second century, because there was a guy named

1232
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:40,239
Montanus who was the charismatic of the second century, and

1233
01:14:40,279 --> 01:14:42,760
he said, I'm the voice of the Holy Spirit. I

1234
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:46,119
have new revelations like in the Book of Acts, which

1235
01:14:46,119 --> 01:14:48,439
will now guide the church as a kind of direct

1236
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:53,039
prophetic guidance. And Montanus was immediately condemned. In fact, it's

1237
01:14:53,079 --> 01:14:55,000
one of the reasons that Turtolian is not a saint

1238
01:14:55,199 --> 01:14:57,520
is that he left the church to become a montonist,

1239
01:14:58,279 --> 01:15:00,439
and so this is a you know, famous reason why

1240
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:02,960
he's just a patristic writer and not a saint. He

1241
01:15:03,079 --> 01:15:07,119
became a heretic and schismatic, unfortunately. But the conbination of

1242
01:15:07,319 --> 01:15:11,319
Montanism shows that first second, third century Church had already

1243
01:15:11,359 --> 01:15:15,680
rejected this idea of ongoing public divine revelation, and thus

1244
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:19,159
this immediately cuts out anything to do with cults. But

1245
01:15:19,279 --> 01:15:22,600
that's different than somebody like, you know, if you go

1246
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:25,359
meet your confessor, or you go meet some elder on

1247
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:28,159
Mount Athos and they have a sense about you, and

1248
01:15:28,239 --> 01:15:31,479
they know you know something clairvoyant about you. That's something

1249
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:35,000
between you and him. It's a spiritual gift. It's not

1250
01:15:35,399 --> 01:15:39,000
something that like the church says, oh we got a.

1251
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 2: New epistle to add to the New Testament, right yeah,

1252
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:47,800
totally yeah, yeah, So it sounds like there's some key distinctions.

1253
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:52,800
There's explication versus some having an epiphany which could be

1254
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:56,960
right or wrong, versus some type of clairvoyance, which would

1255
01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:01,039
be one to one that that scale, versus someone claiming

1256
01:16:01,159 --> 01:16:02,279
revelation itself.

1257
01:16:03,039 --> 01:16:06,760
Speaker 1: You can have a public divine revelation, right with the

1258
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:08,439
depth of John the Apostle. Yeah.

1259
01:16:09,239 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, So some people try to maybe falsely explicate something

1260
01:16:15,199 --> 01:16:18,399
and then they maybe try to transform it into some

1261
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:21,000
sort of public revelation or prophecy, and they just go

1262
01:16:21,319 --> 01:16:24,520
run with it, as opposed to someone who's just just

1263
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:26,600
looking at it and going, oh no, we're just we're

1264
01:16:27,159 --> 01:16:31,600
deciding what this means here. We're not declaring the entailment

1265
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:34,439
of the future here with some sort of prediction. And

1266
01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:36,960
it's those predictors that you watch out for, right, like

1267
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:42,520
whether they're the Jamatria Tards or or these people. Douy Joel,

1268
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:43,439
thank you for your Super.

1269
01:16:43,279 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 1: Bowl, even an Orthodox Monaska if they claim to have

1270
01:16:46,199 --> 01:16:50,560
visions like we already have the rule laid down Douai thirteen,

1271
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:54,840
Dourami eighteen Galatians one. It's not that like you don't

1272
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:57,840
get to It's not like a you know, nine out

1273
01:16:57,880 --> 01:16:59,640
of ten, like you got to get.

1274
01:16:59,560 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 2: Them all right.

1275
01:17:00,039 --> 01:17:02,640
Speaker 1: It like if you don't get one of them right,

1276
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:07,279
you're disqualified. Gotcha. That's the rule according to scripture for

1277
01:17:07,439 --> 01:17:11,399
a quote prophet. And even if a saint or an

1278
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:13,800
elder somebody to predict something accurately about the future, it's

1279
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:19,439
still not public divine revelation. Mmm, gotcha, anymore than any

1280
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:21,960
more than you would listen to any other person in

1281
01:17:22,039 --> 01:17:25,239
the church, a priests or whoever who's talking about, you know,

1282
01:17:25,319 --> 01:17:28,000
his opinion of the end times. It's not equivalent to

1283
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:30,800
divine revelation. That's interesting.

1284
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:34,640
Speaker 2: It actually brings up like how in a future perhaps

1285
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:42,119
where enough data input can increase the level of predicted predictability,

1286
01:17:42,279 --> 01:17:44,880
for in so far as certain things are concerned, if

1287
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:48,399
people are going to appeal to AI's ability to predict

1288
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:51,800
to some more vast extent, and they'll they'll try to

1289
01:17:52,319 --> 01:17:55,840
present it more like through a theological view. I feel

1290
01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:58,359
like that might be inevitable to some extent where they

1291
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:01,880
take the AI the new King Solomon, if you will,

1292
01:18:02,039 --> 01:18:04,439
that knows all, it's given, all the wisdom, that's given

1293
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:07,600
every all the information, and it spits out these sort

1294
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:11,479
of predictive models that end up being predictive enough for

1295
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:14,880
ordinary humans who don't have a theological basis to adopt

1296
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:18,359
it as the new one because it's like it's so smart, right.

1297
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:24,079
Speaker 1: Well, in Zardas, that's how the AI computers work. They

1298
01:18:24,359 --> 01:18:28,239
have a predictive future models and that's what they do.

1299
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:30,239
So absolutely, yeah, I think it would fall for.

1300
01:18:30,279 --> 01:18:32,680
Speaker 2: That for sure, but that would like lend itself to

1301
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:35,279
some sort of more of a determinist view of humans,

1302
01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:38,399
which that would be a We're already in the horror

1303
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:41,920
of people believing strict materialists Germanism.

1304
01:18:42,319 --> 01:18:45,119
Speaker 1: I mean, just well, look at what Paul says, which

1305
01:18:45,159 --> 01:18:47,600
is very applicable to Mormonism, right. Paul says, even if

1306
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:50,720
an angel from heaven comes and preaches a different teaching

1307
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:54,199
from what I've laid down in my apostolic writings and

1308
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:58,319
oral teachings, you don't listen to them even if they appear,

1309
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:03,920
which is almost perfectly aligns with Mohammed and Joseph Smith

1310
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:06,319
because they both claim an angel visitor came and told

1311
01:19:06,359 --> 01:19:09,960
them this new revelation. Right, and yet Paul is saying,

1312
01:19:10,199 --> 01:19:13,359
even if you have an angelic visitation, you don't listen

1313
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:15,800
to it if it deviates from what I have handed

1314
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:18,680
down to you. So if Galatians one is true, there

1315
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:23,439
cannot be new, additional corrective revelations down the road. Got you.

1316
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:27,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's pretty strict. It's pretty constrained. Montana Moser

1317
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:29,760
five dollars. I went to the Mormon church and nothing

1318
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:31,600
was said about the Book of Mormon. I don't even

1319
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:35,039
remember seeing any there, like any of the actual.

1320
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:37,119
Speaker 1: Well, this is the technique that Colts do, just like

1321
01:19:37,239 --> 01:19:40,279
even Islam does this, right. They preach it publicly as

1322
01:19:40,319 --> 01:19:43,399
a very simple message. Right. The last we had with

1323
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:47,119
Daniel Haikikachu, he was saying, look how simple Islam is,

1324
01:19:47,319 --> 01:19:50,720
basic principles. God's just won It's simple. The simplicity is

1325
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:53,640
what God would want for a religion for all peoples.

1326
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:56,720
It's simple. And then once you're involved in it. Oh,

1327
01:19:56,800 --> 01:19:58,119
by the way, you also got to believe all these

1328
01:19:58,159 --> 01:20:01,680
crazy hadiths. Mormonism does the same thing. They're not going

1329
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:03,960
to tell you the crazy stuff when they meet you

1330
01:20:04,039 --> 01:20:06,680
on the street. M they're wait until you're roped in,

1331
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:10,039
invested in it sunk and cost fallacy. Now you got

1332
01:20:10,119 --> 01:20:15,279
to believe all the crazy stuff, right right? Scientology same way. Similar, Yeah, you.

1333
01:20:15,359 --> 01:20:17,680
Speaker 2: Have to actually work your way up. That's it's actually,

1334
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:22,439
it's actually it seems to be that you you not

1335
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:26,920
only are exposed to the wacky stuff later, but the

1336
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:29,880
way it structures is that is that you actually earned

1337
01:20:29,960 --> 01:20:33,640
the wacky stuff. So you're actually invested in the wacky stuff, right.

1338
01:20:34,039 --> 01:20:37,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And just like scientology, you're also paying a significant

1339
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:38,960
amount of money to get to that point.

1340
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:42,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're invested so it won't occur wacky. I mean,

1341
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:46,399
anything you you pay for, you're already setting yourself up

1342
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:49,439
for a bias toward the thing you're paying for. It

1343
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:52,000
happens all the time when we buy crappy items, we

1344
01:20:52,079 --> 01:20:54,479
try to convince ourselves, well, maybe it's not that, Maybe

1345
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:58,680
it's exactly I got it from Instagram. It looked cool.

1346
01:20:59,319 --> 01:20:59,960
Speaker 1: Crash Man five.

1347
01:21:00,319 --> 01:21:03,279
Speaker 2: I remember hearing that Mormonism used to teach that non

1348
01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:06,000
white people are the children of sin. Yeah, we included

1349
01:21:06,039 --> 01:21:08,880
that in the h in the cartoon there, and that

1350
01:21:09,079 --> 01:21:11,680
is why they are not white. Now, Jay I was

1351
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:16,000
asking early on, are there now new iterations of Mormonism

1352
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:17,720
who are trying to move away from these kind of

1353
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:20,199
crazy these kind of more crazy takes we saw in

1354
01:21:20,239 --> 01:21:20,760
the cartoon.

1355
01:21:22,239 --> 01:21:25,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the main line Mormon LDS people

1356
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:30,119
are becoming more left, more woke, more rebranded against that stuff.

1357
01:21:30,199 --> 01:21:31,960
But as far as I know, it's all still there.

1358
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:36,279
But there are Mormon splits and sects, right.

1359
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:36,880
Speaker 4: Uh.

1360
01:21:37,079 --> 01:21:41,399
Speaker 1: The fundamentalist Latter Day Saints with that crazy, very fed

1361
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:49,159
looking dude. What was that guy's name, Jeff Jeffers, Jeffries.

1362
01:21:49,640 --> 01:21:52,439
You know what I'm talking about. The cult he created,

1363
01:21:52,479 --> 01:21:58,880
his compound, the guy that did all the what was

1364
01:22:00,119 --> 01:22:04,520
a Jim Cavizel human trafficking movie, Sounded Freedom that was

1365
01:22:04,600 --> 01:22:09,880
done by a split off Mormon sectarian guy. Hm, that's he.

1366
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:14,800
It's based on him. Interesting the character, right, So uh,

1367
01:22:15,199 --> 01:22:19,239
they believe in his group in like new prophetic revelations

1368
01:22:19,319 --> 01:22:25,479
that like fix the mainline Mormon problems. So you see

1369
01:22:25,479 --> 01:22:28,680
how this is like a never ending infinite regress of

1370
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:33,279
new profits that can correct the mistakes of yesteryear's profits.

1371
01:22:34,159 --> 01:22:37,960
Speaker 2: That makes me wondrous inside Mormonism. Is it even possible

1372
01:22:38,279 --> 01:22:42,800
for a new profit that they wholly appealed to, that's

1373
01:22:43,159 --> 01:22:46,720
that supersedes Joseph Smith to a higher extent. What would

1374
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:49,000
that What would be required for that to happen?

1375
01:22:49,199 --> 01:22:52,880
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I mean it would it would

1376
01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:56,439
be like the papacy having a pope, you know, basically

1377
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:59,600
saying Frank was a heretic by the way he's out

1378
01:23:00,319 --> 01:23:02,800
mm hmm. I mean it would immediately cause a pretty

1379
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:07,159
significant contradictory tension. I don't know, I don't know how

1380
01:23:07,199 --> 01:23:09,640
they can. I mean, it seems logical if you can

1381
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:15,920
have a new profit that corrects the previous ones. Yeah,

1382
01:23:16,279 --> 01:23:20,560
it happens. It like it immediately would invalidate all that

1383
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:21,119
came before.

1384
01:23:21,319 --> 01:23:23,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's split. It It would cause like whatever

1385
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:26,199
you would call a schism and Mormonism and.

1386
01:23:28,079 --> 01:23:31,880
Speaker 1: Some warn jet that's the guy that had his compound

1387
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:35,920
and he had like, I don't know, forty Prairie muffin wives.

1388
01:23:36,119 --> 01:23:36,880
Just do you remember him?

1389
01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:38,680
Speaker 2: I remember that name.

1390
01:23:39,359 --> 01:23:43,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's a Mormon split. That's like traditional holding

1391
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:46,720
to all the previous Mormon teaching. But to me, that

1392
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:48,800
looked like a mind control fed operation.

1393
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:52,560
Speaker 2: It's also harder probably to do what Joseph Smith did

1394
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:56,279
then now with all the tech and cross referencing capabilities,

1395
01:23:58,119 --> 01:24:00,960
even though people are just as dumb. I think, like

1396
01:24:01,079 --> 01:24:04,319
you said, why does this stuff work? Because people start,

1397
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:07,720
instead of broadly looking at a worldview and obtaining information

1398
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:10,560
and cross referencing in a in a holistic way, they

1399
01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:14,840
they isolate myopic things and they focus in on these

1400
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:18,760
like these like very specialized views of things, so they

1401
01:24:18,840 --> 01:24:22,000
don't have like, they don't have the capacity, so they

1402
01:24:22,079 --> 01:24:26,239
fall into wacky positions. But if someone came along and

1403
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:30,920
took another position like Joseph Smith and started saying things,

1404
01:24:31,199 --> 01:24:33,920
it just seems that whatever is said, it's gonna be

1405
01:24:34,039 --> 01:24:39,279
harder for people to believe it, just like wholesale because

1406
01:24:39,359 --> 01:24:41,880
of the ability to like at least question it a

1407
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:45,279
little bit more with with access to information and stuff,

1408
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:48,479
but they didn't have as much of that, I suppose,

1409
01:24:49,239 --> 01:24:52,239
Jason Castle, thank you so much, Tim Buck says Jimbob

1410
01:24:52,319 --> 01:24:54,840
and Jay, how dare you attack the man the myth

1411
01:24:55,119 --> 01:24:59,840
Joseph Smithy. Joseph Smithy, he is our special boy. I

1412
01:25:00,079 --> 01:25:05,960
seen the Golden tablets. They are pretty Yeah, been five dollars.

1413
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:08,239
I really want to hear Jabe talk about Jehovah witnesses.

1414
01:25:08,319 --> 01:25:11,119
Sometime dated a girl who broke out of it and

1415
01:25:11,239 --> 01:25:13,319
she told me in seeing things they did. Yeah, I'm

1416
01:25:13,319 --> 01:25:17,680
sure Jay, you covered that probably multiple times as well well.

1417
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:20,479
Speaker 1: I mean, there are similar similarities, but they're more of

1418
01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:26,439
a just more of an anti Trinitarian focused sect. That is,

1419
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:29,479
actually it's polytheistic as well, because they think Jesus is

1420
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:36,279
a god, which is polytheism. But Charles tays Russell was

1421
01:25:36,439 --> 01:25:41,279
also influenced by masonry. He was interested in Enochian magic. Yeah,

1422
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:43,880
so there was an occult element there with him, as

1423
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:48,600
well as Joseph Smith. But I think more interesting than

1424
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:53,840
that is the multiple times that Joe's witnesses have predicted

1425
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:56,960
in the world I've been wrong. So remember, if you

1426
01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:00,399
fail in your predictions, you're a false prophet. That's on me.

1427
01:26:00,439 --> 01:26:04,439
Thirteen did around me eighteen Glatians one make it very

1428
01:26:04,479 --> 01:26:08,239
clear you don't get to like get second chances right

1429
01:26:08,399 --> 01:26:13,000
with prophetic predictions and claims. And then one of the

1430
01:26:13,079 --> 01:26:17,079
times that they predicted it, that guy named Judge, Judge,

1431
01:26:17,159 --> 01:26:19,439
whatever his name is, always forget his name, but he

1432
01:26:19,520 --> 01:26:22,720
took all their money and built himself like multimillion dollar

1433
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:27,680
San Diego estate. So it's called Beth Saram. It's still there.

1434
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:32,399
Speaker 2: Interesting, he still operates a thing and he just you know,

1435
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:33,359
he's long dead.

1436
01:26:33,399 --> 01:26:34,800
Speaker 1: But I'm saying the house is still there if you

1437
01:26:34,840 --> 01:26:35,800
look at best there.

1438
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:36,079
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1439
01:26:36,279 --> 01:26:38,800
Speaker 1: Interesting, and it's not like super super fancy, but I

1440
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:42,359
mean it was enough that like he said, oh, I'm

1441
01:26:42,359 --> 01:26:46,279
building this a state because when David and Moses come

1442
01:26:46,439 --> 01:26:48,159
like they needed a nice place to say.

1443
01:26:48,399 --> 01:26:52,800
Speaker 2: M right, makes sense. Yeah, uh seems legit. Where do

1444
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:55,840
I sign up? That's funny, Keenan tain't nothing for ninety nine.

1445
01:26:55,920 --> 01:26:58,159
This is basically the same thing as he man. Well,

1446
01:26:58,199 --> 01:27:00,399
it's the same animation they got. The same man made her.

1447
01:27:00,319 --> 01:27:03,359
Speaker 1: Apparently, which Judge Rutherford, excuse me, he built in nineteen

1448
01:27:03,439 --> 01:27:07,760
twenty nine, this Beth Saram estate for Abraham and the

1449
01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:11,199
other resurrected patriarchs to live in the end of the world.

1450
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:14,000
What's that? So? I mean that right there should cancel up.

1451
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:16,800
Speaker 2: I wonder is there a famous person who bought it up?

1452
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:19,560
Speaker 1: Bought it up the estate. I think it's just owned

1453
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:21,800
by like a normal San Diego Now, I mean, if

1454
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:24,520
you look at it now. It's not like I mean

1455
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:27,159
that house, that house in San Diego is probably five

1456
01:27:27,319 --> 01:27:30,000
million dollars, ten million dollars. Yeah.

1457
01:27:31,079 --> 01:27:32,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a nice house.

1458
01:27:32,199 --> 01:27:35,439
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that was pretty fancy.

1459
01:27:36,039 --> 01:27:40,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean worthy of of of the What did

1460
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:42,560
you say, who was going to visit and occupy?

1461
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:46,680
Speaker 1: He says. In nineteen eighteen, Watchtower publications began to predict

1462
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:48,960
the end of the world. Judge Rutherford, he's kind of

1463
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:54,800
the successor after Charles J's. Russell said that these Old

1464
01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:57,640
Testament princes would be resurrected in nineteen twenty five and

1465
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:00,560
come back to live. They needed someplace to live. This

1466
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:09,880
included Moses, David Abraham and then when uh they didn't

1467
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:12,159
come back, he lived there and then I think they

1468
01:28:12,199 --> 01:28:13,560
eventually just sold it to somebody.

1469
01:28:14,199 --> 01:28:17,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was assuming they were super materialistic. They

1470
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:21,039
wanted like the chikoozies and you know, all the nice things.

1471
01:28:22,199 --> 01:28:22,960
Ben Fortnite, I.

1472
01:28:22,960 --> 01:28:24,640
Speaker 1: Mean, you're gonna put you can't put up plant stuff

1473
01:28:24,640 --> 01:28:26,600
on a holiday in dude, Come on, that's true.

1474
01:28:27,159 --> 01:28:30,479
Speaker 2: Blonds are overrated. If I wanted the data, super saying,

1475
01:28:30,600 --> 01:28:34,560
I would thank you so much. Ben Montana again with

1476
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:35,199
the five dollars.

1477
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:37,319
Speaker 1: Here's a bit more dough. Thanks for this, you guys.

1478
01:28:37,399 --> 01:28:40,399
Speaker 2: I was super zoomer kuomer doomer before you guys helped

1479
01:28:40,399 --> 01:28:41,359
me turning away from that.

1480
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:42,800
Speaker 1: Thank you. Well, that's awesome.

1481
01:28:43,279 --> 01:28:46,039
Speaker 2: Uh Steve mcglove and two dollars. Origin of the star

1482
01:28:46,159 --> 01:28:49,119
seeds star seeds was I learned this from a TikTok

1483
01:28:49,399 --> 01:28:52,680
uh engagement I had with crystallogical and this other dude

1484
01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:55,239
that star seeds came from the Hopi tribe. I don't

1485
01:28:55,239 --> 01:28:56,960
know if that's true, but that's what he really gave

1486
01:28:57,000 --> 01:28:59,239
me a talking to that guy. He was like, no,

1487
01:28:59,439 --> 01:29:02,119
you are not star seed. That is a that is

1488
01:29:02,199 --> 01:29:03,840
a Hope tribe thing, not you.

1489
01:29:04,520 --> 01:29:06,479
Speaker 1: Well you know what, I bet you. There's an element

1490
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:09,439
of Native American mythology on Joseph Smith too.

1491
01:29:10,199 --> 01:29:13,359
Speaker 2: All right, well he included them in the cartoon exactly. Well,

1492
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:16,439
the Book of Mormon is their history. So yeah, interesting

1493
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:20,319
justin Henley two dollars. Well, I'm converting to ladder or yeah,

1494
01:29:20,399 --> 01:29:23,000
to your later Arthur bros. He's converting. That's all it

1495
01:29:23,039 --> 01:29:26,680
took was that one cartoon. Posh redneck whatever that is

1496
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:30,560
in uh Serbian weasel currency.

1497
01:29:31,960 --> 01:29:34,399
Speaker 1: I don't know. In Serbia, and Serbia they pay for

1498
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:37,520
things with beer and cigarettes, so that's like one cigarettes

1499
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:40,279
they do. Uh, you're just coping.

1500
01:29:40,479 --> 01:29:44,760
Speaker 2: All pre Constantine fathers talked about kolob hanky panky TM

1501
01:29:45,039 --> 01:29:47,199
and use the word thusly in English.

1502
01:29:47,319 --> 01:29:47,760
Speaker 1: That's true.

1503
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:54,680
Speaker 2: Posh, thanks, posh, appreciate that. Tain't nothing another five bucks.

1504
01:29:54,800 --> 01:29:57,119
We need a Mormon video game. It could rival Zelda.

1505
01:29:57,159 --> 01:29:59,520
Well I thought about this, Jay, I was thinking of

1506
01:29:59,600 --> 01:30:03,000
all of like these wacky characters. I wouldn't do it

1507
01:30:03,079 --> 01:30:06,600
with like the True God, of course, who would be blasphemy.

1508
01:30:06,680 --> 01:30:10,399
But but like these characters like Joseph Smith and the

1509
01:30:11,159 --> 01:30:13,760
people who started you know, l Ron Hubbard, and you

1510
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:16,680
make sort of a Mortal Kombat game right between them,

1511
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:19,279
and they all have like featured things, and they say

1512
01:30:19,399 --> 01:30:21,399
certain phrases and they have certain moves.

1513
01:30:21,560 --> 01:30:27,399
Speaker 1: A heretic mortal Yeah, heretical combat so good.

1514
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:31,199
Speaker 2: I just think that the the you'd get shut down

1515
01:30:31,279 --> 01:30:35,600
copyright likeness, Uh, you'd get you know, but such a

1516
01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:36,039
I just.

1517
01:30:36,079 --> 01:30:41,279
Speaker 1: Remember this is another testament, like just a little funny

1518
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:47,039
tangent testament to it being polytheistic. In Battlestar Galactica, which

1519
01:30:47,119 --> 01:30:51,279
is a Mormon sci fi thing. The Cylons who are

1520
01:30:51,359 --> 01:30:56,920
the like AI robot clone entity. Sometimes eventually they become

1521
01:30:56,960 --> 01:30:59,279
what they look like humans, but they're they're AI bots.

1522
01:31:00,119 --> 01:31:04,840
The Cylons are Monotheists, and they're the bad guys. So

1523
01:31:05,159 --> 01:31:10,479
in the Mormon literature, the villains are Monotheists. Wow, I

1524
01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:14,760
didn't pay because Mormonism is right, So they admit it is.

1525
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:16,640
Speaker 2: They don't even try to defend it to lump it

1526
01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:19,479
in with Christianity, they just admit it.

1527
01:31:19,760 --> 01:31:24,399
Speaker 1: In the Battlestar Galactica universe, not talking about Mormonism, but

1528
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:27,439
in that narrative, which is written by Mormon, it's Mormon

1529
01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:31,439
theology in a literary way. The Cylons, who are the

1530
01:31:31,479 --> 01:31:35,640
AI bad guy villains, are monoth the villains of the Monotheists.

1531
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:39,000
So they're programming the Mormons through their fiction. You know,

1532
01:31:39,159 --> 01:31:43,720
whenever you encounter Monotheists fellow Mormons, they're the bad guys,

1533
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:44,760
just like the cylons.

1534
01:31:45,359 --> 01:31:50,159
Speaker 7: Yeah, every time, every time one plus one plus one

1535
01:31:50,239 --> 01:31:54,439
equals one or dude Ben four ninety nine, I thought

1536
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:55,960
Lucifer was supposed to be look sexy.

1537
01:31:56,039 --> 01:31:57,479
Speaker 2: This dude looks like an in cell.

1538
01:31:57,600 --> 01:31:58,079
Speaker 3: What the hell?

1539
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:02,880
Speaker 2: They're bros. Yeah, they're just brothers. You know Hippie Jesus

1540
01:32:03,039 --> 01:32:06,039
was all, Nah, can't force the odds, bro.

1541
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:08,640
Speaker 1: One question I have is okay, so I admitted, if

1542
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:15,319
Jesus is uncreated and Lucifer's brother is Lucifer also uncreated,

1543
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:16,119
that's really weird.

1544
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1545
01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:20,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that whole That whole thing is crazy. That's

1546
01:32:20,880 --> 01:32:23,640
why it's a We're the ones who are foolish to

1547
01:32:23,720 --> 01:32:26,479
take a philosophical approach. Jay, It's just all comes down

1548
01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:33,159
to Koman feeling feeling good, Kelly Silva nine j or Jimbob.

1549
01:32:33,279 --> 01:32:36,000
Have you seen the Netflix series called American Prime Evil?

1550
01:32:36,319 --> 01:32:40,000
Pretty interesting stuff. It's Mormons versus Christians in eighteen fifty seven.

1551
01:32:40,039 --> 01:32:42,079
Mormons kill a lot of people. I have that on

1552
01:32:42,319 --> 01:32:45,239
my thing to watch. I didn't wantch ame.

1553
01:32:45,279 --> 01:32:46,399
Speaker 1: You watched it. I haven't watched it.

1554
01:32:47,039 --> 01:32:49,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure there's so much to review.

1555
01:32:49,439 --> 01:32:50,079
Speaker 1: Have you reviewed?

1556
01:32:50,119 --> 01:32:52,239
Speaker 2: I watched Heretic on the I went to Hawaii and

1557
01:32:52,279 --> 01:32:54,319
I watched it on the plane. I thought it was like,

1558
01:32:55,239 --> 01:32:57,039
I didn't know you did a review. I hope I

1559
01:32:57,079 --> 01:32:59,520
can take a look at that. But what did you

1560
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:02,439
think of generally? If I missed your review? What was

1561
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:06,319
your take on Heretic? That movie Oh, I liked it.

1562
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:11,319
Speaker 1: I thought it was one of the better religious slash

1563
01:33:11,439 --> 01:33:14,159
cult type stories in a long time. It was a

1564
01:33:14,199 --> 01:33:16,600
little corny at the end, the twist about it maybe

1565
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:20,760
being a simulation, but I liked that we kept being

1566
01:33:20,880 --> 01:33:25,359
led into different potential explanations multiple times over, so we

1567
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:29,760
kind of were the detectives watching the movie along with

1568
01:33:30,039 --> 01:33:34,640
the girls and them having their worldview kind of deconstructed. Yeah.

1569
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:36,840
I that it was really good. Yeah, I did too.

1570
01:33:37,239 --> 01:33:39,840
Speaker 2: I thought it was a good sign of it early

1571
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:43,279
on was that they actually presented a negative aspect to

1572
01:33:43,399 --> 01:33:46,119
disbelief in God that that holds its own sort of

1573
01:33:46,520 --> 01:33:52,600
dogmatic consequences as well. It wasn't just straight up religion bad,

1574
01:33:52,720 --> 01:33:55,199
which it was more tilted. It's always tilted that way

1575
01:33:55,319 --> 01:33:59,640
religion bad generally speaking. But at least they got into

1576
01:33:59,680 --> 01:34:00,520
some off there.

1577
01:34:00,760 --> 01:34:01,840
Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting.

1578
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:07,239
Speaker 2: I actually missed the simulation nod I saw at the end,

1579
01:34:08,159 --> 01:34:10,319
not to spoil it, but it ended with like a

1580
01:34:10,479 --> 01:34:14,279
question of, well, maybe this stuff is real, maybe who knows, Like,

1581
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:17,079
but what was the nod to I missus?

1582
01:34:17,279 --> 01:34:20,399
Speaker 1: Well, if you remember, like at one point when Hugh

1583
01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:25,880
Grant is presenting the different possibilities there's a reference to

1584
01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:34,039
simulation theory. Yeah, and then she remembers seeing a butterfly

1585
01:34:35,159 --> 01:34:38,840
at the window. And then her friend had said, well,

1586
01:34:38,840 --> 01:34:40,479
if I die, you know, I'll come back as a

1587
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:43,159
butterfly or something like that. And then when she gets

1588
01:34:43,199 --> 01:34:46,600
out of the house, when she crawls out and she

1589
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:50,479
sees the butterfly, and then like she blinks, and then

1590
01:34:51,000 --> 01:34:54,399
it's unclear if this is my interpretation, it was unclear

1591
01:34:54,479 --> 01:34:57,239
if the butterfly was never there, she just thought she

1592
01:34:57,359 --> 01:35:00,560
saw it. So is that arming? That?

1593
01:35:01,079 --> 01:35:03,119
Speaker 2: Oh that part I see, Yeah, there it.

1594
01:35:03,239 --> 01:35:05,760
Speaker 1: Was that his simulation theory is possibly the one, or

1595
01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:09,199
is it just simply saying that, No, her friend just

1596
01:35:09,279 --> 01:35:12,399
came back as a butterfly. So I don't I don't.

1597
01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:14,880
I mean, that's that maybe out there. I don't know.

1598
01:35:15,960 --> 01:35:19,199
Speaker 2: Justin Henley, who had abandoned Orthodoxy and went to Mormonism

1599
01:35:19,359 --> 01:35:22,359
during the stream, actually came back. Thanks so much for

1600
01:35:22,439 --> 01:35:25,600
making that so quick, Justin Ben four nine. Damn it,

1601
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:29,079
that's actually compelling. Be right back on uncomping Mormon Yeah,

1602
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:32,920
Chase Haggard Dollar ninety nine, Mormonism is nonsense. Want the

1603
01:35:32,960 --> 01:35:34,479
truth find uranchia?

1604
01:35:35,119 --> 01:35:37,560
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, we haven't dealt with that in the past.

1605
01:35:38,199 --> 01:35:43,359
Speaker 2: Yes, Ben four ninety nine, bro who wrote this weird fanfic. Well,

1606
01:35:43,600 --> 01:35:46,039
it seems like it's more of a synthesis than writing,

1607
01:35:46,119 --> 01:35:49,199
isn't it. We're seeing that he's just drawing and then

1608
01:35:49,279 --> 01:35:52,119
kind of rephrasing things, but he didn't. Is there anything

1609
01:35:52,199 --> 01:35:54,920
he actually did the work of actually making up Jay?

1610
01:35:55,199 --> 01:35:56,760
Is there anything we can credit him for?

1611
01:35:56,880 --> 01:36:01,159
Speaker 1: Actually? Well, he has like sermons and stuff, And Smith's

1612
01:36:01,399 --> 01:36:05,319
sermons are useful because it's in those that he presents

1613
01:36:05,399 --> 01:36:09,600
things like clear anti trinitarian, you know, polytheism type stuff. Yeah,

1614
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:12,439
and there's other contradictions too, like other other places they're

1615
01:36:12,520 --> 01:36:16,319
modalists and other times they're polytheists. So it's it's just

1616
01:36:16,399 --> 01:36:18,800
not it's not a consistent thing. They just kind of

1617
01:36:19,359 --> 01:36:20,720
make it up as they go, which is why you

1618
01:36:20,760 --> 01:36:24,399
can have Mormon prophets a few decades ago saying that

1619
01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:26,119
Caine is Bigfoot.

1620
01:36:27,399 --> 01:36:29,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my favorite. You guys in the chat, you

1621
01:36:30,079 --> 01:36:33,319
think we're joking. I Jay texted me this because I

1622
01:36:33,399 --> 01:36:36,319
was like looking for things. I'm doing an animation. I

1623
01:36:36,600 --> 01:36:40,079
want things to include mentioned. I was like, no, what, wait,

1624
01:36:40,199 --> 01:36:41,239
Kine is bigfoot?

1625
01:36:42,359 --> 01:36:46,479
Speaker 1: What and this is a pretty normal like many many

1626
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:48,720
Mormons and ex Mormons have said, Yeah, we believe that

1627
01:36:48,760 --> 01:36:49,600
we were taught that way.

1628
01:36:50,079 --> 01:36:54,800
Speaker 2: Cryptic Kane, it's amazing. Justin Henley five dollars. Eloem just

1629
01:36:54,880 --> 01:36:57,680
behaves like the Greek pantheon. Zeus h. Jay mentioned that,

1630
01:36:57,840 --> 01:37:01,760
except with less shape shifting into goose goose before do

1631
01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:02,479
you mean goose?

1632
01:37:02,880 --> 01:37:09,199
Speaker 1: Goose means a goose because zs like like grapes as

1633
01:37:09,279 --> 01:37:10,079
as a goose.

1634
01:37:11,399 --> 01:37:14,319
Speaker 2: Oh, interesting, grapes is a goose. Wow, it's sounds like

1635
01:37:14,359 --> 01:37:22,279
another cartoon. Oh man, that's too accurate. Uh, have a

1636
01:37:22,319 --> 01:37:25,039
fly guy, twenty dollars. What about mixed races? Did I

1637
01:37:25,359 --> 01:37:29,560
try to switch sides at the last moment? Well you further,

1638
01:37:29,680 --> 01:37:32,479
I didn't confirm this, but they're only halfway new tool.

1639
01:37:33,239 --> 01:37:36,960
Hey you get baptized. Apparently you can baptize a black

1640
01:37:37,039 --> 01:37:40,279
person in Mormonism and they're no longer considered black. I

1641
01:37:40,279 --> 01:37:42,000
don't know how that works. Is that like a Truons

1642
01:37:42,399 --> 01:37:44,119
that's like similar to the Truns philosophy.

1643
01:37:44,119 --> 01:37:46,039
Speaker 1: But I didn't know that. That's great, there's no universe

1644
01:37:46,439 --> 01:37:50,760
about that. Oh, oh, do you're you know they have

1645
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:54,079
that like a blood ritual two.

1646
01:37:55,359 --> 01:37:58,079
Speaker 2: That's what I was asking earlier when he said rituals,

1647
01:37:58,159 --> 01:38:00,279
I was like, does j know any of the weird one?

1648
01:38:01,319 --> 01:38:05,520
Speaker 1: So they had a teaching of blood redemption and that's

1649
01:38:07,960 --> 01:38:12,439
oh really, yeah, that's how you read about yourself.

1650
01:38:12,880 --> 01:38:13,119
Speaker 2: Wow.

1651
01:38:13,720 --> 01:38:20,800
Speaker 1: No, no, no, if you commit a certain sin mm hmm. Smith,

1652
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:22,760
at least back in the Smith days, they had this

1653
01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:25,800
idea of the only way that you could be redeemed

1654
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:28,640
as if you were to die, if you committed I

1655
01:38:28,760 --> 01:38:33,119
think it was apostasy. Let me do your self sacrifice. Yeah.

1656
01:38:33,960 --> 01:38:37,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, did they do something with the with the juice after.

1657
01:38:37,119 --> 01:38:42,039
Speaker 1: Or I think it's called blood redemption. I forgot about

1658
01:38:42,119 --> 01:38:45,479
this blood atonement. That's it. Early Mormon doctrine had a

1659
01:38:45,560 --> 01:38:49,279
teaching of blood atonement, and the idea was that in

1660
01:38:49,439 --> 01:38:50,319
early Mormonism.

1661
01:38:51,199 --> 01:38:51,319
Speaker 4: Uh.

1662
01:38:51,439 --> 01:38:55,640
Speaker 1: This is particularly under the time of Brigham Young, if

1663
01:38:55,680 --> 01:39:00,800
you committed certain grievous actions such as murder or covenant breaking.

1664
01:39:00,840 --> 01:39:03,720
I'm not sure what covenant breaking is, the atonement could

1665
01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:12,079
only be remedied by your restitution, restitution or redemptive death. Wow. Yeah.

1666
01:39:13,880 --> 01:39:17,960
The second President and prophet of the Church, Brigham Young,

1667
01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:22,039
taught this specifically in his eighteen fifties sermons.

1668
01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:26,680
Speaker 2: Now that's a tactic you've used in debates that maybe

1669
01:39:26,760 --> 01:39:29,279
most people don't expect because they look at the Book

1670
01:39:29,319 --> 01:39:33,960
of Mormon General Practices. Maybe would other Mormon apologists say

1671
01:39:34,119 --> 01:39:36,640
or don't say, but you were like, well there's these

1672
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:37,880
lingering sermons.

1673
01:39:37,920 --> 01:39:40,079
Speaker 1: No, you have to read the sermons because it's their

1674
01:39:40,119 --> 01:39:43,199
prophets speaking. Yeah, you got to go to those directly.

1675
01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:47,880
Speaker 2: Whoever wrote this was sipping on that flint water correctly.

1676
01:39:47,960 --> 01:39:51,279
I mean, it really is like it gets you excited

1677
01:39:51,359 --> 01:39:53,960
a little bit to like write a cartoon. Like Honestly,

1678
01:39:54,000 --> 01:39:56,920
when I watched that Jay, I was like, well, make

1679
01:39:57,000 --> 01:39:57,840
a story like this.

1680
01:39:58,239 --> 01:40:02,079
Speaker 1: This is also similar to masonry too, because in masonry,

1681
01:40:02,159 --> 01:40:07,039
at least classically, there's the oath that if you you

1682
01:40:07,199 --> 01:40:10,039
have your slit, if you release the secrets of masonry,

1683
01:40:10,079 --> 01:40:14,960
that's the oath you take. And probably Brigham and Joseph

1684
01:40:15,640 --> 01:40:18,680
copied that oath as well for their blood atonement doctrine.

1685
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:21,720
Speaker 2: That would be kind of funny they held that, but

1686
01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:24,680
there actually were no secrets, like they just didn't have them.

1687
01:40:24,920 --> 01:40:28,359
But they were like they exist. If you threaten them,

1688
01:40:28,399 --> 01:40:31,279
will you die? But you have to work your way

1689
01:40:31,359 --> 01:40:32,000
up to the secrets.

1690
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:32,319
Speaker 1: I heard.

1691
01:40:33,239 --> 01:40:37,079
Speaker 2: We often think that in freemasonry, like what is it

1692
01:40:37,119 --> 01:40:39,279
the highest? We always think that thirty three is the highest.

1693
01:40:39,359 --> 01:40:41,520
That's actually not true, right, It's like it goes up.

1694
01:40:41,840 --> 01:40:44,760
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's hard to say because who's official

1695
01:40:45,119 --> 01:40:46,039
in this stuff anyway?

1696
01:40:46,159 --> 01:40:46,279
Speaker 4: Right?

1697
01:40:46,359 --> 01:40:49,720
Speaker 1: I mean, so you can go study at Black Lodges

1698
01:40:49,840 --> 01:40:51,840
where you can go all the way up to the

1699
01:40:52,239 --> 01:40:54,800
ninety eighth degree of the Memphis and Misery, but then

1700
01:40:55,239 --> 01:40:57,399
the rest of the Masons don't recognize that.

1701
01:40:57,600 --> 01:40:58,279
Speaker 2: So who knows.

1702
01:40:58,359 --> 01:40:59,560
Speaker 1: It's all just made up anyway.

1703
01:40:59,640 --> 01:41:03,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, Ben for four ninety nine says, when does

1704
01:41:03,079 --> 01:41:06,199
iron Man save Jesus from doctor Doom? It's pretty much,

1705
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:09,119
you know, if he lived longer. And can you imagine

1706
01:41:09,199 --> 01:41:12,119
Joseph Smith saw some of the cool stories that existed

1707
01:41:12,119 --> 01:41:13,479
today and he wanted to include them.

1708
01:41:13,600 --> 01:41:18,079
Speaker 1: How crazy. It's very similar to Marvel Cinemata universe. That's accurate.

1709
01:41:18,680 --> 01:41:22,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Duff Freak two dollars was Jay raised in Sarasota, Florida.

1710
01:41:22,720 --> 01:41:23,880
Speaker 3: You don't have to answer that if you don't want.

1711
01:41:24,319 --> 01:41:27,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm problem the Bible Belt, but not from Florida.

1712
01:41:30,640 --> 01:41:33,039
Speaker 2: Justin Henley. Two dollars Treasure seeker is a fun way

1713
01:41:33,039 --> 01:41:35,840
of saying thief. That's actually funny. Treasure seeker. He was

1714
01:41:35,880 --> 01:41:37,239
a he was just an adventurer.

1715
01:41:37,640 --> 01:41:40,840
Speaker 1: It's like he had like a stick Jones, that's all.

1716
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:43,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Indiana Jones. And he had the stick with

1717
01:41:43,359 --> 01:41:47,520
the with the bag lunch in the back. Ben four

1718
01:41:47,600 --> 01:41:50,920
nine nine. Justin Hart, Justin Henley, check Mark, thank you

1719
01:41:51,039 --> 01:41:53,840
so much for that, Will Emmanuel handing over the Pesos

1720
01:41:54,159 --> 01:41:56,119
endless celestial sex, super chat train.

1721
01:41:56,279 --> 01:41:56,560
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1722
01:41:57,079 --> 01:42:01,640
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, President Sundowner Bucks, bagel sharing, Yeah, thank you.

1723
01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:05,640
Share your bagels, share your bagel spreads. Uh h, Brossei

1724
01:42:05,640 --> 01:42:08,800
four nine nine. H laughs out loud. Can't imagine Jay

1725
01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:12,199
getting precept by a soon to be wine mom. She

1726
01:42:12,359 --> 01:42:14,920
hit you with the cannons of Virginia Slims and you

1727
01:42:15,039 --> 01:42:16,600
froze up. I'm guessing no.

1728
01:42:16,880 --> 01:42:17,279
Speaker 5: I like that.

1729
01:42:17,399 --> 01:42:21,199
Speaker 2: You were very nice with that young lady about I

1730
01:42:21,279 --> 01:42:27,319
think I thought she said Virginia Slims. I figured about Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1731
01:42:27,640 --> 01:42:29,880
I thought that was yet.

1732
01:42:29,720 --> 01:42:32,880
Speaker 1: It was a tongue in cheek. Debate is an actress?

1733
01:42:33,079 --> 01:42:35,039
I mean what we respect? You know? Yeah?

1734
01:42:36,279 --> 01:42:39,079
Speaker 2: Cody four nine nine. Have you noticed Mormons investing caffeine?

1735
01:42:39,239 --> 01:42:41,960
Muslims will sell you alcohol, Amish will let you drive

1736
01:42:42,119 --> 01:42:44,439
them around, they will help you send when you missed

1737
01:42:44,439 --> 01:42:48,199
out a group. We won't mention them. Everyone knows that

1738
01:42:48,359 --> 01:42:51,439
is interesting. Jay mentioned they invest they are our corporations,

1739
01:42:51,479 --> 01:42:53,640
that they're going to include all of their income. Right,

1740
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:57,560
So uh deut Jel five bucks says, I forgot to

1741
01:42:57,680 --> 01:43:01,119
mention these prophetic YouTubers claim to be the reference of

1742
01:43:01,359 --> 01:43:02,880
Acts two seven.

1743
01:43:03,359 --> 01:43:05,760
Speaker 1: Except that in the Book of Acts Peter literally says

1744
01:43:05,840 --> 01:43:08,760
that what's happening at Pentecost and Acts two is the

1745
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:16,399
fulfillment of Joel. Say that again in Acts two when

1746
01:43:16,439 --> 01:43:21,159
Peter starts preaching about what's happening at actswos Pentecosts. So

1747
01:43:21,279 --> 01:43:24,079
the Holy Spirit coming down and the people seeing the

1748
01:43:24,199 --> 01:43:29,680
miraculous manifestation of speaking in languages not gibberish languages, that's

1749
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:32,920
the fulfillment of the Book of Joel, predicting in the

1750
01:43:33,079 --> 01:43:36,680
last days the Spirit will be poured out in all flesh. Okay,

1751
01:43:36,840 --> 01:43:39,560
so it is not about any YouTuber today. When Peter

1752
01:43:39,720 --> 01:43:43,520
explains that what's happening in Acts two is the fulfillment,

1753
01:43:45,079 --> 01:43:45,760
does that make sense?

1754
01:43:45,920 --> 01:43:48,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. I just want to clarify yea, yeah,

1755
01:43:48,880 --> 01:43:49,800
just the only five bucks.

1756
01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:51,840
Speaker 1: It's not a sex cult. Yeah, I read that already.

1757
01:43:51,920 --> 01:43:52,560
Speaker 3: That's really funny.

1758
01:43:52,720 --> 01:43:55,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a it's just soaking, just the weirdest thing.

1759
01:43:55,439 --> 01:43:56,920
Speaker 1: Well I wasn't even I don't even know about the

1760
01:43:57,000 --> 01:43:59,920
soaking thing. I'm just saying that the sex cult l

1761
01:44:00,359 --> 01:44:04,720
is like the Joseph Smith celestial yah.

1762
01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:08,279
Speaker 2: Celestial or yeah, yeah, cosmic wife or you know, multiple

1763
01:44:08,359 --> 01:44:12,239
wive orgies. And this is also the case that you could,

1764
01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:15,039
if you're a good God, if you developed to be

1765
01:44:15,079 --> 01:44:16,680
a really good god, it's not just that you have

1766
01:44:16,760 --> 01:44:18,520
a planet, but you can have your own galaxy.

1767
01:44:18,640 --> 01:44:20,439
Speaker 1: It's like, it's like, what is it.

1768
01:44:20,760 --> 01:44:24,840
Speaker 2: It's basically like prosperity gospel, but for the cosmic realm,

1769
01:44:25,319 --> 01:44:28,600
where materialism still holds true. Even though you transcend it

1770
01:44:28,680 --> 01:44:32,079
by dying into the cosmic realm, you still get what's

1771
01:44:32,119 --> 01:44:35,359
equivalent to a big mansion. It's just it's just clusters

1772
01:44:35,439 --> 01:44:36,760
of stars or something like this.

1773
01:44:37,119 --> 01:44:39,039
Speaker 1: Here's another good question too that we didn't get to,

1774
01:44:39,159 --> 01:44:42,079
which came up in one of the Shammouon's debates with

1775
01:44:42,199 --> 01:44:43,800
one of the Mormons. So I thought that was interesting.

1776
01:44:44,760 --> 01:44:47,960
So if God the Father has a flesh body and

1777
01:44:48,159 --> 01:44:53,600
there's a mother. Yeah, wouldn't that suggest that there's also goddesses?

1778
01:44:54,600 --> 01:44:54,800
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1779
01:44:55,159 --> 01:44:58,680
Speaker 2: So and then an act needed to happen to as well, exactly, Yeah,

1780
01:44:59,239 --> 01:45:03,920
endless regress. It's really just like a weird naturalism. It's

1781
01:45:04,399 --> 01:45:08,560
like a weird physical paradigm that then they take the

1782
01:45:08,640 --> 01:45:11,680
physical and then they apply it to the the heavenly.

1783
01:45:11,840 --> 01:45:13,560
Speaker 1: It's like a one to one correspondence.

1784
01:45:13,720 --> 01:45:13,840
Speaker 5: Right.

1785
01:45:14,159 --> 01:45:17,439
Speaker 1: In fact, a lot of Muslims actually think that Christians

1786
01:45:17,520 --> 01:45:22,520
teach that God the Father impregnated Mary. Right, so it's

1787
01:45:22,560 --> 01:45:26,039
like what Muslims misunderstand is what Mormons actually believe.

1788
01:45:26,680 --> 01:45:31,800
Speaker 2: That's hilarious. Wow, that crossover. Another two bucks. It's funny

1789
01:45:31,800 --> 01:45:34,119
because Joseph Smith is such a black name. That's funny,

1790
01:45:34,720 --> 01:45:36,479
Ben four ninety nine. And this makes me want to

1791
01:45:36,560 --> 01:45:43,920
soak so bad, oh Man, Derek five bucks. Mortmon An

1792
01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:47,199
apologist Jacob Hanson claims they believe in theosis the way

1793
01:45:47,279 --> 01:45:48,000
the Church fathers.

1794
01:45:48,199 --> 01:45:51,319
Speaker 1: No, I mean that should be obviously not based on

1795
01:45:51,359 --> 01:45:53,119
everything that we've already said. That's obviously not true.

1796
01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:57,439
Speaker 2: Smalls four ninety nine. Not gonna lie. Mormonism would make

1797
01:45:57,760 --> 01:46:02,880
a sick Prague Rock concept album. Yeah, perhaps they don't. Wait,

1798
01:46:02,960 --> 01:46:05,479
that's the other thing is like, what is there? Do

1799
01:46:05,600 --> 01:46:07,960
they have a cappella worship music?

1800
01:46:08,359 --> 01:46:10,239
Speaker 1: They have the famous Tyernacle choir.

1801
01:46:10,960 --> 01:46:14,159
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so they don't use they don't do bass solos.

1802
01:46:14,239 --> 01:46:18,359
Speaker 1: Then I don't know if Mormon churches have instruments. I

1803
01:46:18,479 --> 01:46:22,199
want to say the r LDS which reorganized and rebranded

1804
01:46:22,279 --> 01:46:24,880
as Community Church, I think I think they have a

1805
01:46:24,920 --> 01:46:27,840
praising worship man, gotcha, I've.

1806
01:46:27,720 --> 01:46:29,680
Speaker 2: Never seen it. I thought I would see that though

1807
01:46:29,720 --> 01:46:32,199
on the internet if it existed, I would see it

1808
01:46:32,199 --> 01:46:34,640
in some sort of extreme for format. I don't think

1809
01:46:34,680 --> 01:46:39,039
I have, but you know who knows? Another five bucks?

1810
01:46:39,119 --> 01:46:42,600
Aery Shaffir does a good stand up routine about this junus.

1811
01:46:42,920 --> 01:46:44,840
He says that they have to go soft and it

1812
01:46:45,000 --> 01:46:47,479
isn't considered a stroke to pull. Yeah, it's it's it's

1813
01:46:47,560 --> 01:46:51,680
all legalists loopholes. You know, it's endless, just endless debating.

1814
01:46:51,880 --> 01:46:56,600
It's just constantly debating how you can get away with something. Apparently,

1815
01:46:57,359 --> 01:47:00,000
Harrison Parker remember for twenty eight months, Thank you so much, Harry,

1816
01:47:00,079 --> 01:47:02,720
And that's a long time to support ex Mormon here,

1817
01:47:02,880 --> 01:47:05,479
keep up the destroying logic of the church. It's all

1818
01:47:05,600 --> 01:47:09,680
about the fields. I didn't actually know this, Jay. I

1819
01:47:09,720 --> 01:47:13,680
thought it was more about like submit to unquestioning authority

1820
01:47:13,760 --> 01:47:18,000
that can't justify any positions. I didn't know Mormonism act

1821
01:47:18,560 --> 01:47:19,680
appeals to the fields.

1822
01:47:20,520 --> 01:47:23,920
Speaker 1: I was. I was being straight up like, it's that's

1823
01:47:24,199 --> 01:47:27,319
their apologetic is like makes me feel good?

1824
01:47:28,239 --> 01:47:28,439
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1825
01:47:30,359 --> 01:47:32,720
Speaker 1: Uh me? And the first time I ever acted interacted

1826
01:47:32,760 --> 01:47:35,840
with Mormons, the missionary in my hometown, it was that

1827
01:47:36,039 --> 01:47:38,439
was the conversation. It was like I was a little

1828
01:47:38,479 --> 01:47:40,520
bit into apologetics. I didn't know a whole lot about it,

1829
01:47:40,640 --> 01:47:42,560
but I was like, well, why am I supposed to

1830
01:47:42,560 --> 01:47:44,399
believe in the Book of Mormon. They're like, because you're

1831
01:47:44,439 --> 01:47:46,279
gonna feel it, just praying to feel it.

1832
01:47:46,439 --> 01:47:46,760
Speaker 4: That was it.

1833
01:47:48,479 --> 01:47:50,359
Speaker 1: And I said, all right, well, will y'all want I

1834
01:47:50,479 --> 01:47:53,520
actually tried to get them to watch that god Maker's

1835
01:47:53,560 --> 01:47:55,920
clip that we watched mm HM because it used to

1836
01:47:55,960 --> 01:47:59,039
be on VHS, and they were like, we'll have to

1837
01:47:59,119 --> 01:48:01,159
ask our elders if we can do that. And I

1838
01:48:01,239 --> 01:48:04,720
was like, I will watch y'all's Mormon Jesus movie. Because

1839
01:48:04,720 --> 01:48:06,880
they were handing out VHS is of Mormon Jesus. I

1840
01:48:07,000 --> 01:48:08,560
was like, I will watch that if y'all will watch

1841
01:48:08,720 --> 01:48:12,039
this with me and their elders told them no, they couldn't,

1842
01:48:12,119 --> 01:48:14,039
no trade off, no, no go.

1843
01:48:15,399 --> 01:48:19,960
Speaker 2: Ben four nine, Oh you go, commando question, Who's guess

1844
01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:20,800
who's going to Hell?

1845
01:48:20,920 --> 01:48:21,079
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1846
01:48:21,119 --> 01:48:23,640
Speaker 2: The underwear thing, that would just be funny to have

1847
01:48:23,800 --> 01:48:27,399
a pair of unopened magical underwear just to like just

1848
01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:31,079
for you know, keepsake, just for Yeah.

1849
01:48:31,159 --> 01:48:35,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Do they make like what if you're an

1850
01:48:35,880 --> 01:48:39,159
elder Mormon, do you get like the you know, elder diapers.

1851
01:48:39,399 --> 01:48:43,439
Speaker 2: Depends, Yeah, magical depends or something like this, all in

1852
01:48:43,560 --> 01:48:45,239
the goods. Ten bucks, give me, give me, give me

1853
01:48:45,359 --> 01:48:47,479
dire by Fire, dire by Fire.

1854
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:51,119
Speaker 1: Did you see that black creature, the one you did

1855
01:48:51,199 --> 01:48:51,880
you had on a clip?

1856
01:48:52,079 --> 01:48:54,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was cracking me out, man, some of them

1857
01:48:54,960 --> 01:48:58,359
the things I'm finding, I'm just like, I'm like, I'm

1858
01:48:58,439 --> 01:49:01,039
like laughing and giggling like in a nice light way,

1859
01:49:01,119 --> 01:49:03,239
but I'm also like part of me is dying inside

1860
01:49:03,279 --> 01:49:06,800
that it exists. Ben five bucks, cutting off your cosmic

1861
01:49:06,920 --> 01:49:10,439
junk is just circumcision with extra credit. Yeah, and in

1862
01:49:10,479 --> 01:49:15,279
a sense, another thing they stole maximum ten bucks, JB.

1863
01:49:15,399 --> 01:49:17,359
Look forward to seeing you on whatever. Yeah, it's going

1864
01:49:17,439 --> 01:49:21,279
to be fun. I think mostly you know, my patients

1865
01:49:21,319 --> 01:49:22,920
will be tested at least, so that's good.

1866
01:49:23,279 --> 01:49:25,520
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get I'm trying to get not so

1867
01:49:25,600 --> 01:49:26,960
aroudite to do a debate as well.

1868
01:49:27,239 --> 01:49:30,279
Speaker 2: So yeah, I hope that happens. That was supposed to

1869
01:49:30,359 --> 01:49:33,960
happen this Saturday for me, but they couldn't find someone.

1870
01:49:34,119 --> 01:49:37,359
So I'm going to be in Santa Barbara and probably

1871
01:49:37,439 --> 01:49:40,920
without a debate opponent. But that's fine, you know, come

1872
01:49:41,000 --> 01:49:45,119
back next time if that's the case. Extentally five dollars.

1873
01:49:45,319 --> 01:49:47,560
How can someone be sixty percent eternal?

1874
01:49:48,600 --> 01:49:50,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is kind of weird.

1875
01:49:51,119 --> 01:49:53,840
Speaker 1: Nate five bucks? How would you answer this question? Her question?

1876
01:49:54,000 --> 01:49:56,880
Speaker 2: How did God get to become God? I thought it

1877
01:49:57,000 --> 01:50:00,560
was just a dumb question. Well, we'd say God's eternal, uncreated,

1878
01:50:00,600 --> 01:50:01,359
there's no becoming.

1879
01:50:01,520 --> 01:50:04,399
Speaker 1: He doesn't becoming God, but.

1880
01:50:04,479 --> 01:50:06,880
Speaker 2: There is in mormonives, you have to become Well, what

1881
01:50:07,520 --> 01:50:09,279
how do how does what was the question for him?

1882
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:12,359
How did God become human? Is the question? It's even

1883
01:50:12,439 --> 01:50:16,840
a more brutal question to to the question of what's

1884
01:50:17,159 --> 01:50:21,359
God's you know, ontological status in time, pre time, et cetera.

1885
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:24,680
This is a worse question. It's like you hold that

1886
01:50:24,920 --> 01:50:29,479
God was once human, but was he eternally human and

1887
01:50:29,560 --> 01:50:33,239
became God? Well that doesn't make sense even if you say, no,

1888
01:50:33,439 --> 01:50:35,880
he became human, but he was once God.

1889
01:50:36,399 --> 01:50:37,399
Speaker 1: That does that? Also?

1890
01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:40,279
Speaker 2: Does that? You know? That's a I don't even know

1891
01:50:40,359 --> 01:50:43,359
what they mean when they're saying these these transitions are happening,

1892
01:50:43,560 --> 01:50:45,520
you know, so denial of universals.

1893
01:50:45,760 --> 01:50:47,840
Speaker 1: Well, if you when we asked that Mormon gud too,

1894
01:50:48,640 --> 01:50:50,319
I don't think it was Robert Gerr was one of

1895
01:50:50,359 --> 01:50:53,760
the other ones we were asking about the eternal. Maybe

1896
01:50:53,760 --> 01:50:56,800
it was Gerr, but he was admitting, Oh, there's a

1897
01:50:56,800 --> 01:51:01,720
bunch of different you know, eternal things. It's like, well,

1898
01:51:03,079 --> 01:51:06,000
that would be polytheism. He's like, no, we just defined

1899
01:51:06,039 --> 01:51:11,039
polytheism differently or something like change the meanings of the

1900
01:51:11,079 --> 01:51:13,199
words and say no, it's not pitism because that's not

1901
01:51:13,279 --> 01:51:14,159
what paltheism means.

1902
01:51:14,359 --> 01:51:18,119
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, well then they take the approach that

1903
01:51:18,279 --> 01:51:22,479
there's eternality of what you say prima material is that

1904
01:51:22,560 --> 01:51:23,560
what you the phrase.

1905
01:51:23,680 --> 01:51:26,760
Speaker 1: Right matter is like the ancient it's a teaching of Aristotle.

1906
01:51:26,800 --> 01:51:31,199
Aristotle believes that matters eternal and then the first cause

1907
01:51:31,720 --> 01:51:36,359
God of Aristotle forms prime matter into the forms that

1908
01:51:36,439 --> 01:51:36,680
we have.

1909
01:51:37,159 --> 01:51:43,119
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so just like like it, unintelligible mass then

1910
01:51:43,399 --> 01:51:45,680
takes some sort of intelligible form.

1911
01:51:45,760 --> 01:51:48,600
Speaker 1: So the deity of Aristotle is the great Architect of

1912
01:51:48,640 --> 01:51:52,039
the universe. An architect works with pre existing matter, he

1913
01:51:52,119 --> 01:51:56,439
doesn't create out of nothing. And likewise, Masonry's God is

1914
01:51:56,560 --> 01:51:59,880
a great architect of the universe. Literally, that's what the

1915
01:52:00,119 --> 01:52:03,119
g and masonry stands for the great architect because they

1916
01:52:03,279 --> 01:52:07,239
Masons don't believe in creation. Next Nilo Joseph Smith just

1917
01:52:07,279 --> 01:52:10,000
directly borrowed that out of masonry. Interesting.

1918
01:52:10,640 --> 01:52:13,960
Speaker 2: It's because it's interesting because I debate. You know, these

1919
01:52:14,039 --> 01:52:18,279
atheists who now are confronting that there is some sort

1920
01:52:18,319 --> 01:52:23,399
of necessary component to reality that has to be eternal essentially,

1921
01:52:23,600 --> 01:52:26,079
so they they keep going back in time and then

1922
01:52:26,119 --> 01:52:28,720
they eventually get to this place where they're saying there

1923
01:52:28,840 --> 01:52:31,600
is a They make the transcendental argument for God, by

1924
01:52:31,640 --> 01:52:33,680
the way, which is not for God, it's for the

1925
01:52:33,760 --> 01:52:34,479
initial state.

1926
01:52:34,840 --> 01:52:35,039
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1927
01:52:35,119 --> 01:52:38,000
Speaker 2: Initial state. Well, well it's not even not matter. As

1928
01:52:38,039 --> 01:52:41,039
I press them on matter and they go to initial

1929
01:52:41,159 --> 01:52:43,800
state is something. When you ask them to extrapolate on it,

1930
01:52:44,119 --> 01:52:47,560
they agree that whatever they're about to say can't be

1931
01:52:47,720 --> 01:52:51,159
identical to how they understand everything that comes after matter,

1932
01:52:51,640 --> 01:52:54,479
think how things operate together. It has to be beyond that.

1933
01:52:54,680 --> 01:52:59,479
Speaker 1: In so so the the great divine bang.

1934
01:53:00,439 --> 01:53:06,199
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, totally like beyond our comprehension can't match

1935
01:53:06,319 --> 01:53:07,560
the reality after it.

1936
01:53:08,439 --> 01:53:10,960
Speaker 1: It's really funny when you asked them about that pre

1937
01:53:11,199 --> 01:53:14,159
banged state, they're like, it was all of the universes

1938
01:53:14,239 --> 01:53:18,960
bound up into an infinite, infinitely piny, and infinitely tiny particle,

1939
01:53:19,159 --> 01:53:21,760
which is like, there's absolutely no evidence at all for that.

1940
01:53:22,000 --> 01:53:24,720
It's all just totally made up. It's literally like Mormon

1941
01:53:24,800 --> 01:53:25,359
level stuff.

1942
01:53:25,880 --> 01:53:28,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's wild. They're like, and then and you're like, well,

1943
01:53:28,319 --> 01:53:32,039
that particle exists inside what car like a Cartesian.

1944
01:53:31,880 --> 01:53:33,359
Speaker 1: Plane, Like you don't know what exploded.

1945
01:53:33,840 --> 01:53:36,479
Speaker 2: No, it's just it's like everything in there's nothing outside

1946
01:53:36,520 --> 01:53:39,600
of that thing. And okay, that really just you're just

1947
01:53:39,760 --> 01:53:43,800
making an impersonal god with no intent, right, that's all

1948
01:53:43,840 --> 01:53:44,239
you're doing.

1949
01:53:44,279 --> 01:53:47,000
Speaker 1: And it's an even stupider position than what they think

1950
01:53:47,079 --> 01:53:47,479
is stupid.

1951
01:53:48,159 --> 01:53:52,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's even dumber than whoever turns God into the

1952
01:53:52,760 --> 01:53:57,119
infinite material space realm. You know, they're just doing the opposite.

1953
01:53:57,159 --> 01:53:59,000
They're just like, no, we're going to condense that. They're like,

1954
01:53:59,079 --> 01:54:02,880
that's stupid. They're like, well, your god replacement is just

1955
01:54:02,960 --> 01:54:06,920
a tiny particle that encapsulates everything before time. Okay, cool,

1956
01:54:07,399 --> 01:54:11,119
so you're religious. So you're religious. Bend five bucks. Here's

1957
01:54:11,159 --> 01:54:13,239
some money to stuff in your shoulder pads. I know

1958
01:54:13,359 --> 01:54:16,079
I need to get these things out well.

1959
01:54:16,159 --> 01:54:19,439
Speaker 1: By the way, I mean Mormonism, I guess, would also

1960
01:54:19,560 --> 01:54:23,000
be not consistent with big bang unless they think that

1961
01:54:23,079 --> 01:54:27,720
there's multiverse, because how can you have an infinite succession

1962
01:54:27,840 --> 01:54:32,439
of gods if there's a big bang? Yeap to start everything.

1963
01:54:32,920 --> 01:54:36,600
Speaker 2: That's true, they're gonna have to have and even the yeah,

1964
01:54:36,680 --> 01:54:39,800
the initial state would have some state before it that

1965
01:54:39,920 --> 01:54:42,560
would just be the real godly It's like the Eternal Father.

1966
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:43,399
Speaker 1: Same thing.

1967
01:54:44,359 --> 01:54:46,399
Speaker 2: Worried you'll have the smallest shoulders on the panel. I

1968
01:54:46,600 --> 01:54:49,159
just I'm not worried. I'm sure of that. I'll use

1969
01:54:49,199 --> 01:54:50,079
that to my advantage.

1970
01:54:51,199 --> 01:54:51,640
Speaker 1: That's how I.

1971
01:54:51,720 --> 01:54:56,079
Speaker 2: Soften my opponents. By the ways, there just like a

1972
01:54:56,359 --> 01:54:59,840
get doing the panel thing. They couldn't find a one off,

1973
01:55:00,079 --> 01:55:03,279
one on one for me the day before, so I'll

1974
01:55:03,359 --> 01:55:08,319
just do the classic nine hour panel. By the way,

1975
01:55:08,359 --> 01:55:10,039
if you end up going there, Jay and you do

1976
01:55:10,119 --> 01:55:12,840
a one on one. I'm gonna be pissed if you

1977
01:55:12,960 --> 01:55:17,840
don't have to survive the eight hour panel with the chicks.

1978
01:55:17,920 --> 01:55:22,119
Speaker 1: So is it actually eight hours? Well it could be.

1979
01:55:22,279 --> 01:55:27,600
Speaker 2: I mean it's more like whoa, maybe I've seen a

1980
01:55:27,720 --> 01:55:28,520
high six.

1981
01:55:28,399 --> 01:55:31,560
Speaker 1: At some point. Oh okay, wow, this is a lot though.

1982
01:55:32,880 --> 01:55:35,640
Speaker 2: Especially at like where it'll go in the last two hours.

1983
01:55:35,760 --> 01:55:38,159
You know what kind of topics you'll get into, but

1984
01:55:38,720 --> 01:55:43,079
you'll get to see through my pain. One thousand wives.

1985
01:55:43,159 --> 01:55:44,079
But they all look the same.

1986
01:55:44,119 --> 01:55:44,279
Speaker 1: I know.

1987
01:55:44,479 --> 01:55:47,000
Speaker 2: They don't even get a variety like the Don't the

1988
01:55:47,079 --> 01:55:51,239
Muslims at least, you know, provide some sort of diversity.

1989
01:55:51,399 --> 01:55:54,279
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I don't know what the how

1990
01:55:54,359 --> 01:55:55,119
well falled out that.

1991
01:55:55,319 --> 01:55:59,880
Speaker 2: Is Orthodox Pilgrim twenty bucks from here, Hey, Ephraim. Any

1992
01:56:00,119 --> 01:56:03,560
cult borrows concepts from the surrounding religions. Mormonism is no

1993
01:56:03,680 --> 01:56:06,960
different than Islam in this regard. Tons of parallels between them.

1994
01:56:07,000 --> 01:56:10,680
Great work, guys, good struggle to you both during Lent.

1995
01:56:10,800 --> 01:56:11,479
Thank you so much.

1996
01:56:11,680 --> 01:56:13,920
Speaker 1: Prairie muffin Muslims is what I've been calling them.

1997
01:56:14,119 --> 01:56:17,760
Speaker 2: Very muff funny ah, yeah, because what else could they

1998
01:56:18,079 --> 01:56:22,159
appeal to? They have to borrow from something around them

1999
01:56:22,279 --> 01:56:24,079
or else. And I'm trying to think of like, oh,

2000
01:56:24,319 --> 01:56:26,279
is there any cult you can think of that was

2001
01:56:26,680 --> 01:56:30,640
pretty pretty grassroots.

2002
01:56:30,039 --> 01:56:33,800
Speaker 1: And not just completely made up? I don't know, but

2003
01:56:33,920 --> 01:56:38,479
and that reminds me too. Muslims will pretend, kid you not,

2004
01:56:39,239 --> 01:56:48,640
that the Qur'an invents and pioneers Greek atomism as a position.

2005
01:56:49,079 --> 01:56:53,399
The Sunni Muslims will claim that it's divine revelation that

2006
01:56:53,520 --> 01:56:56,800
they knew about Greek atomism. It's like, wait a minute,

2007
01:56:57,560 --> 01:57:00,960
you're admitting that that's from Greek philosophers. Yeah, but it's

2008
01:57:01,039 --> 01:57:03,960
in the Quran and improves it to be true. Wow,

2009
01:57:04,439 --> 01:57:06,079
you ripped it off of them. No, it came from

2010
01:57:06,119 --> 01:57:09,840
the Koran. Yeah. And the Shia do the exact same thing.

2011
01:57:09,960 --> 01:57:11,680
So when we had doctor Kololan, we were arguing with

2012
01:57:11,760 --> 01:57:14,039
doctor Clots, like, wait a minute, you're saying that and

2013
01:57:14,119 --> 01:57:18,800
his students you're saying that the Quran is really just neoplatonism. Yes,

2014
01:57:19,720 --> 01:57:22,560
does it come from Plato and the neoplatonists? No, it's

2015
01:57:22,560 --> 01:57:29,119
from the Quran. Mm hm wow yeah yeah, I mean

2016
01:57:29,159 --> 01:57:30,800
you see how silly that is. It is?

2017
01:57:30,920 --> 01:57:32,920
Speaker 2: Though, Well, I see why you get like, you know,

2018
01:57:33,079 --> 01:57:36,239
get so flustered with some and and and rightly so

2019
01:57:36,399 --> 01:57:38,479
asked the question, when you get to that point with

2020
01:57:38,600 --> 01:57:41,560
someone on a call, is there really anything that you

2021
01:57:41,640 --> 01:57:44,760
can do or say if they take if they if

2022
01:57:44,800 --> 01:57:46,479
you show them this and you go, do you see

2023
01:57:46,479 --> 01:57:47,840
I'll observed this and they know?

2024
01:57:48,239 --> 01:57:52,399
Speaker 1: I mean, what else can you do? Well, he's saying like, yeah,

2025
01:57:52,439 --> 01:57:55,159
you know, that's uh, you know the Summa Theologica of

2026
01:57:55,199 --> 01:57:59,159
Aquinas I wrote that, and then you go and you

2027
01:57:59,279 --> 01:58:02,319
read like my version of it, which is just me

2028
01:58:02,439 --> 01:58:05,479
adding a few paragraphs at the bottom, as I see,

2029
01:58:05,720 --> 01:58:08,279
that's mine. And then what did the one guy say?

2030
01:58:08,399 --> 01:58:08,600
Speaker 5: Jay?

2031
01:58:08,680 --> 01:58:11,399
Speaker 1: He said, well, it was taken out? And you go,

2032
01:58:11,479 --> 01:58:12,399
how do you know it's taken out?

2033
01:58:12,880 --> 01:58:14,760
Speaker 2: What he said? He said, it wasn't there?

2034
01:58:15,800 --> 01:58:21,880
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's not there exactly. That's why I'm I'm

2035
01:58:21,920 --> 01:58:24,439
propaed in the Old Testament. How do you know? Well,

2036
01:58:24,680 --> 01:58:25,079
is it there?

2037
01:58:25,880 --> 01:58:25,920
Speaker 4: No?

2038
01:58:26,159 --> 01:58:28,079
Speaker 1: Exactly, so they took it out? What do you need

2039
01:58:28,319 --> 01:58:30,880
that's proof? That's just that's crazy.

2040
01:58:31,199 --> 01:58:33,680
Speaker 2: Why I heard that part of the of the combo,

2041
01:58:33,720 --> 01:58:37,199
And I was like, okay, well I understand why Jay

2042
01:58:37,960 --> 01:58:39,840
knocks him off at that point, because like you just

2043
01:58:40,000 --> 01:58:42,840
can't Yeah, I mean, if they can't reason that through

2044
01:58:42,960 --> 01:58:44,800
and go okay, this is this is um sure I

2045
01:58:44,960 --> 01:58:45,600
have to rethink this.

2046
01:58:45,800 --> 01:58:50,039
Speaker 1: Look, yes, it's true that Plato teaches Platonism, but it's

2047
01:58:50,079 --> 01:58:55,760
from the Quran. And you know how they get around that. Well,

2048
01:58:55,800 --> 01:58:58,960
the Kuran's eternal, right, Oh, the eternal Karan. Yeah. Yeah,

2049
01:58:59,079 --> 01:59:04,000
So it's not Mohammed and his career ripping it off

2050
01:59:04,039 --> 01:59:04,880
of Plato for the.

2051
01:59:07,600 --> 01:59:11,279
Speaker 2: Eternal courn Oh so it's it's all so they're remembering it.

2052
01:59:11,479 --> 01:59:15,239
It's all like this, this constant download, their revelatory system

2053
01:59:15,760 --> 01:59:19,439
is a sort of like a down it's a download

2054
01:59:19,479 --> 01:59:21,479
system that they're remembering or something like that.

2055
01:59:23,640 --> 01:59:28,760
Speaker 1: Uh. Remember we were talking about Jordan Peterson and somebody

2056
01:59:29,079 --> 01:59:31,359
there was an academic that sent me an essay critiquing

2057
01:59:31,439 --> 01:59:33,439
Jordan Peterson and it was a really good critique and

2058
01:59:33,520 --> 01:59:38,880
he said, Jordan Peterson is an archaeologist of ideas and

2059
01:59:39,680 --> 01:59:41,720
he's trying to piece together.

2060
01:59:43,960 --> 01:59:44,640
Speaker 2: She's gonna talk.

2061
01:59:44,720 --> 01:59:49,560
Speaker 8: Sorry, it's okay, give me this, give me that, kill

2062
01:59:49,640 --> 01:59:54,199
my enemy, kill my enemy, give me, give me, give me,

2063
01:59:54,760 --> 01:59:55,079
give me.

2064
01:59:56,279 --> 01:59:59,000
Speaker 2: Is that a Is that a hardcore rap song or

2065
01:59:59,039 --> 02:00:02,960
something that's the that's the preacher, that's the that was

2066
02:00:03,000 --> 02:00:05,000
the black preacher that you were reviewing, got you, I

2067
02:00:05,039 --> 02:00:06,000
didn't recognize the leader.

2068
02:00:07,800 --> 02:00:10,199
Speaker 1: It would be like, you know, so that the professor

2069
02:00:10,319 --> 02:00:14,319
was saying, Jordan Peterson is an archaeologist of ideas, and

2070
02:00:14,399 --> 02:00:19,560
it's as if he thinks as the super mystical psychologist,

2071
02:00:19,640 --> 02:00:24,399
he can reconstruct the ancient true religion from the religions

2072
02:00:25,279 --> 02:00:27,760
and it's like he'll be the sort of prophetic arbiter,

2073
02:00:28,720 --> 02:00:32,560
right I now Peterson hasn't gone that far, but like

2074
02:00:33,359 --> 02:00:38,239
it's like what Joseph Smith did, right, interesting level beyond

2075
02:00:38,439 --> 02:00:43,199
saying I have reconstructed for you the true ancient religion

2076
02:00:43,359 --> 02:00:47,119
and I've patched it together because I have the authority

2077
02:00:47,159 --> 02:00:49,399
in the revelation to do so. And here it is.

2078
02:00:51,199 --> 02:00:54,960
Speaker 2: Interesting, it wouldn't It's similar, not exact, but parallel to

2079
02:00:55,439 --> 02:00:58,119
the what would be the mechanics of like trying to

2080
02:00:58,239 --> 02:01:01,039
pick from a multitude of relige just believes, trying to

2081
02:01:01,079 --> 02:01:03,079
find the truth of each of them, putting them in

2082
02:01:03,359 --> 02:01:07,359
a cart and calling it a new religion that doesn't

2083
02:01:07,439 --> 02:01:11,560
tell you how those things are true to begin with. Right, So, well,

2084
02:01:11,560 --> 02:01:11,880
that's what.

2085
02:01:11,960 --> 02:01:16,119
Speaker 1: It rests on the self appointed authority of the prophet to.

2086
02:01:16,159 --> 02:01:19,720
Speaker 2: Do it right. Yeah, So it's always this person coming

2087
02:01:19,760 --> 02:01:23,039
along and going, oh, I'm I'm dictating this for you guys,

2088
02:01:23,760 --> 02:01:26,720
you should follow me. That's why, Probably why it's super

2089
02:01:26,760 --> 02:01:30,880
effective is because if it quote resonates with people and

2090
02:01:31,000 --> 02:01:33,720
it feels right and it sounds right, and they use

2091
02:01:33,800 --> 02:01:36,479
their sort of intuition, which a lot of us do

2092
02:01:36,760 --> 02:01:39,600
rely on our intuition. A lot of times it doesn't verify,

2093
02:01:39,720 --> 02:01:42,720
but we do rest on our intuition. If you just

2094
02:01:42,840 --> 02:01:44,880
go with that, I can see why people get lost

2095
02:01:44,920 --> 02:01:46,960
in the sauce with that, because it's like, you know,

2096
02:01:47,119 --> 02:01:49,359
it just seems it's a good sounding thing. It's like

2097
02:01:49,479 --> 02:01:52,680
listening to uh, what's his name? If you're not if

2098
02:01:52,720 --> 02:01:56,800
you're not thoughtful and at least somewhat philosophically based, if

2099
02:01:56,840 --> 02:01:59,600
you listen to Russell brand talk, you might get swept

2100
02:01:59,640 --> 02:02:02,600
away in the good sounding sort of platitudes and be like,

2101
02:02:02,720 --> 02:02:05,920
this guy's onto something. It's you tonight. It's a baptizing

2102
02:02:06,319 --> 02:02:06,720
on the way