WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:12.439 The Team House with your host Jack Murphy and David Park. Hey, guys, 2 00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:15.519 this is episode three eighty seven of The Team House. 3 00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:20.079 I'm Jack Murphy here with today's guest Randy mcawee. Randy 4 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:23.399 served in fifth Special Forces Group. He is a veteran 5 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:29.719 of Desert Storm. Also some interesting special project missions that 6 00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:33.799 he did in the Afghanistan Pakistan region, and a whole 7 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:36.359 number of other things. Martial arts plays a big role 8 00:00:36.399 --> 00:00:40.079 in his life. He was a part of bringing combatives 9 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:44.640 to Special Forces. He did some cross training with third 10 00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:49.200 Ranger Battalion after the Blackhawk Down or Operation Gothic Serpent. 11 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:53.399 And I was also a team sergeant, not once but twice, 12 00:00:53.799 --> 00:00:58.280 which is super rare and really cool. And today he 13 00:00:58.359 --> 00:01:01.799 runs a jiu jitsu business, a number of different businesses 14 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:05.400 you know, around martial arts. So, Randy, thank you for 15 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:06.680 joining us on the show today. 16 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:08.760 Thanks for having me. 17 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:12.079 Oh, Randy, tell us a little bit. You know, I 18 00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:15.000 always ask everyone this, they're they're you know, the regular 19 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:16.840 people who watch the show are probably sick of me. 20 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:20.400 But the origin story. If you tell us a little 21 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:22.879 bit about what your upbringing was like and how that 22 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:26.280 took you towards military service, Okay. 23 00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:29.879 So I was a kid from a real small town 24 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:32.480 in West Virginia, right in the center of the state. 25 00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:36.920 The town had two stop lights and really didn't need 26 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:38.799 either one of them, but they had to because the 27 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:41.920 county seat five miles up the road only had one, 28 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:45.040 so they had to just do better. I grew up 29 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:50.239 my entire life there, you know, a lot of outdoor stuff, hunting, fishing, camping, 30 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:54.640 and you know, played high school football. Didn't really have 31 00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:58.120 a vision for what was going to happen after high school. 32 00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:03.040 Didn't see myself as academically, you know, smart enough to 33 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:06.719 go on and do college. So when I got out 34 00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:11.080 of high school, I graduated and took a construction job. 35 00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:17.479 Quickly found out that did not love construction. You know, 36 00:02:17.479 --> 00:02:19.080 it didn't get any sleep. I was getting up at 37 00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:21.759 like three point thirty in the morning, getting home about 38 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:24.800 nine o'clock at night for the majority of the year, 39 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:28.479 and then come you know, about December through January, got 40 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:31.759 laid off and you know kind of had to figure 41 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:34.879 out the rest of it. So at one point I 42 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:37.360 decided that it really wasn't working out for me. It 43 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:39.039 was kind of you know, it almost gave me a 44 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:42.360 nervous breakdown. I lost like twenty pounds because I wasn't eating. 45 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:45.039 I was stressed out. A lot of times. I would 46 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:48.439 kind of wake up in the morning on the drive 47 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:53.199 in about staring the headlights of a tractor trailer because 48 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:54.719 I was about to run into them. So I was 49 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:58.840 I didn't adjust too well to working that hard and 50 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:03.240 didn't really connect with the people in the job. But 51 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:06.879 when I was in high school, I had taken the 52 00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:09.439 as BAB at one point to get out of class. 53 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:12.719 It was a great way to know, kind of get 54 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:14.639 out of class. I didn't take it too seriously, but 55 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:17.479 I didn't take it, and all the recruiters kind of 56 00:03:18.360 --> 00:03:21.879 that had, you know, started coming by because I played 57 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:25.639 sports and you know, scored fairly well on the as BAB, 58 00:03:26.120 --> 00:03:28.599 so they were always trying to get me into the military. 59 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:32.840 I kind of brushed him off, and then the army 60 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:36.960 recruiter kind of followed up later, but not to get 61 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:38.759 me in the army. But he was he was a 62 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:41.400 deer hunter and he wasn't from the area, and so 63 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:44.000 he was trying to find out about some spots to 64 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:45.879 go deer hunting. So I hooked him up with a 65 00:03:45.879 --> 00:03:48.879 spot to go hunting. He you know, didn't really see 66 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:52.000 him again after that. I started working the construction and 67 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:54.080 then after a while, you know, he'd left a little 68 00:03:54.080 --> 00:04:00.840 booklet that had you know, some guys going airborne, guys 69 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:03.879 in the Ranger Battalion, you know, repelling out of the 70 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:07.520 helicopters and walking through the swamps, and then there was 71 00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:11.120 a section in there with SF guys like in scuba 72 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:13.759 gear coming up out of some swampy water. 73 00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:14.360 You know. 74 00:04:14.360 --> 00:04:16.199 It was a lot of cool stuff that just kind 75 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:19.240 of appealed to you at that age. And I kept 76 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:22.399 looking back at that book and finally I decided that, 77 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:24.519 you know, I'm going to reach out to him and 78 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:27.079 contact him, talk to him. And so when I did, 79 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:30.160 he kind of told me that now, you know, you 80 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:31.439 don't want to go in the army. 81 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:33.319 And I was like, well, I'm interested. 82 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:35.839 He goes, no, you got a job, you're doing fine, 83 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:38.920 you really don't need to do it. And I was like, well, 84 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:41.839 you know, I kept after him, and finally he you know, 85 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:43.680 talked to me about it. I sat down with that 86 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:47.319 little marketing book that he gave me and started asking 87 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:50.079 him about some of the things in there. And the 88 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:53.079 first thing I asked him about was the Airborne section. 89 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:55.800 He's like, oh, yeah, it's jumping out of airplanes and 90 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:57.439 I was like, I don't think I could do that. 91 00:04:57.560 --> 00:05:00.120 I'm scared of heights, so I don't think it's for me, 92 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:04.079 and uh he goes okay, and he was pretty cool. 93 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:06.720 Guy's name was Steve Huggins. I still remember him, and 94 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:09.959 he had been you know, his Vietnam veteran. He was 95 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:13.560 a ranger and I'm not sure if he was ranger 96 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:16.759 qualified or he had been in one of the ranger companies, 97 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:18.879 or if he was just you know, been to ranger school. 98 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:23.199 But then I flipped over to the ranger page and 99 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:25.079 I was like, yeah, this looks really cool. You know, 100 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:28.279 the guys are outside. I'd like to be outside, and 101 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:30.439 you know, we talked a little bit about it, and he goes, yeah, uh, 102 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:32.360 you got to go to Airborne first. I was like, man, 103 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:35.319 that sounds like it's out for me. So flipped to 104 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:37.800 the next page, the SF stuff, and I was like, wow, 105 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:38.639 this looks. 106 00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:41.160 Really you know up my alley love to do it. 107 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:42.680 And he goes up Airborne, you gotta do it, and 108 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:46.240 I was like, damn, that's that's not not setting me 109 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:48.279 up for success. And we I talked to him a 110 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:51.319 little bit about maybe being an MP and uh, you know, 111 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:54.600 because I thought that might be interesting, get some hand 112 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.399 to hand combat training. But I kept coming back to 113 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:01.680 the the the SF stuff. And at the time, they 114 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:06.399 had just come out with the opportunity for guys to 115 00:06:06.439 --> 00:06:10.439 come off the street and go directly into Special Forces. 116 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:12.560 They were standing up first group at the time. 117 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:19.360 And you know, this was about nineteen eighty three. 118 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:22.120 Yeah, you were. You guys were the first generation of 119 00:06:22.279 --> 00:06:27.079 SF babies after Eagle Claw happened and they started, yeah, 120 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:28.680 probably spinning it up. 121 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:32.319 Yeah, that's exactly what happened. And it wasn't the eighteen 122 00:06:32.439 --> 00:06:35.319 X RAY program back then. It was called Unassigned Special Forces. 123 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:39.720 And so I went to the recruiter, you know, I 124 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:42.680 went to the map station, got the physical, did everything 125 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:43.959 I had scored. 126 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:45.399 I had a one nineteen GT. 127 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:48.480 So they were trying to give me all these administrative 128 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:51.560 jobs and all these things I didn't want. And my 129 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:55.120 brother in law had been an infantryman in Vietnam, and he. 130 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:56.600 Told me, you know, he tried to talk me out 131 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:58.439 of it, tried to talk me into going the Air Force. 132 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:01.720 And of course I would listen to him, and I 133 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:04.560 actually worked with him on the construction job. 134 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:06.680 He's the one that got me the job. 135 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:10.079 He was kind of one of the foremen, and so 136 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:12.279 you know, I told him, hey, I'm really sad I 137 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:14.680 want to go into special Forces, and he said, you know, 138 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.079 did everything to talk me out of it. Obviously I 139 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:21.040 wasn't listening like most kids that age, and so he said, well, 140 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:24.319 you know there's a Special Forces National Guard Group. 141 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:25.079 Why don't you do that? 142 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:28.120 You know you can, you'll be home, you'll go training, 143 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:31.240 you know, you'll get out. And of course I didn't listen. 144 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:31.600 To that either. 145 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:35.439 So you know, all that great advice from somebody who 146 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:38.199 knew something, and I said, no, no, I want to 147 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:43.000 be all in, all out special forces, active duty, you 148 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:43.360 know want. 149 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:44.279 I want the whole thing. 150 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:47.439 And you know, he also told me, well, if you're 151 00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:50.079 going to the recruiter, you know, make sure you get 152 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:53.000 exactly what you want and it's in writing, because they 153 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:55.639 will lie to you. They will, you know, they're not 154 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.199 going to give you what they say. They're used car salesman. 155 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:00.680 And when I got there, it was exactly liked that 156 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:03.519 they you know, tried to pawn me off on whatever. 157 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:07.120 These positions were that they needed to fill because my 158 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:09.560 GT was high enough for him. But none of those 159 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:12.439 were what I was interested in. So I stood strong 160 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:14.399 and I was like, no, I want to be I 161 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:17.079 want to go into Special Forces. And you know, the 162 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:19.519 guy would just like the used car salesman, go away, 163 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:20.439 talk to his manager. 164 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:21.240 He'd come back and. 165 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:24.800 You, well, I can get you airborne to Italy, you know, 166 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.319 a great assignment, and then you can volunteer for Special Forces. 167 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:30.319 And I was like, no, it's got to be Special 168 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:33.240 Forces in writing. And then he came back and said, well, 169 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:35.480 you know, I can get you into uh, you know, 170 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:38.799 the Ranger Battalion, and then you can volunteer from there 171 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:41.240 and go to Special Forces. And I was like, no, no, 172 00:08:41.559 --> 00:08:43.960 I'm going I want to go to Special Forces. And 173 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:46.159 so he finally said, yeah, okay, I got a couple 174 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:50.639 of options. And you know, at the time, I had 175 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:55.000 learned just enough and I really wanted to be a 176 00:08:55.039 --> 00:08:57.799 demo man and blow stuff up, and you know, I 177 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:00.559 thought that was the way to go for me, and 178 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:02.440 so I asked about that and he came back and 179 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:06.080 he said, well, I can get you into communications. You know, 180 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:09.000 you can be a commo sergeant and I was like, no, 181 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:10.960 I don't know about that. And the only thing I 182 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:13.080 really knew about it is there was a kid that 183 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:17.080 was a couple of years older high school that left 184 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:19.080 joined the army and he was kind of a skinny 185 00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:21.000 little kid when he left. He came back a year 186 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:23.679 or so later and he was he was huge. 187 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:24.320 You know. 188 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:27.480 We asked him like, well, man, what happened? How'd you 189 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:29.360 get so big? And he said, well, you know, I 190 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:32.200 went to the Ranger battalion and I'm a radio guy 191 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:34.559 there and I carry all these radios that are really heavy, 192 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:38.159 and you know, so that stuck in my head. I 193 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:40.159 don't want to be a radio guy. The radios are 194 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:43.440 really heavy. So I turned that down. And he came 195 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:46.720 back and he said, well, you know, you could be 196 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:49.679 a medic, and I thought about it. You know, i'd 197 00:09:49.720 --> 00:09:52.080 seen a few episodes of Mash, so it looked like 198 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:53.200 they were having a good time. 199 00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:55.360 In my mind, band aids were light. 200 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:59.360 I had that stupid young mentality that didn't realize one 201 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:03.200 hundred pounds of anything is still one hundred pounds, and 202 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:06.120 it had no idea that, you know, the medic carries 203 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:09.799 as much or sometimes more than the como guy, and 204 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:13.360 so I signed up for that and said, okay, put 205 00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:15.879 me in as a medic. And then I went to 206 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:20.360 basic training at Fort Leanderwood, Missouri, and left there to 207 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:22.039 go to Fort sam Houston. 208 00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:24.080 For the combat Medic course. 209 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:26.399 At the time, it was the ninety one Bravo course, 210 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:30.639 and you know, the I'd only been on a plane, 211 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:35.360 like I think I'd flown three times, maybe four. And 212 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:39.000 then they bust us down to San Antonio, Texas. And 213 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:41.840 i'd been there in the winter in Fort Leanderwood, Missouri, 214 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:45.519 got my first case of like mild frostbite there on 215 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:49.200 my nose. And when we were driving into San Antonio 216 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:52.399 in the bus, you know, we drove all night, the 217 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:55.519 sun was coming up over these palm trees and there 218 00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:59.679 was a whole formation of female soldiers running in white 219 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:02.519 tea sh shirts. And I was like, man, I picked 220 00:11:02.519 --> 00:11:06.000 the perfect job. I thought I was was definitely where 221 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:08.879 I needed to be, and I went through the medic 222 00:11:08.919 --> 00:11:10.759 course while I was there. 223 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:14.440 Towards the end of it, everybody got. 224 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:18.279 Their orders for their first duty station and there were 225 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.679 a few of us there. I think there were probably 226 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:24.159 five or six of us that were unassigned special Forces 227 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:28.080 and a couple guys that were unassigned Ranger and a 228 00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:32.919 lot of us got these orders that said, you know, 229 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:35.799 and I remember mine said that they were going to 230 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:38.159 send me to Schofield Barracks in Hawaii. It said nothing 231 00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:41.440 about airborne school, nothing about any of the other stuff 232 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:43.639 I was promised. And so we went to the cat 233 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:46.639 ran and said, hey, our orders aren't correct. I'm supposed 234 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:49.840 to go, you know, to Fort Benning and go to 235 00:11:49.879 --> 00:11:53.759 Special Forces. And they're like and initially they told us, well, 236 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:55.960 you guys didn't get selected, and we're like, well, we 237 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:59.559 didn't even get to try out, so, you know. And 238 00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:03.440 and I said that, okay, if you don't have my 239 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:05.360 my orders, then you know, I need to talk to 240 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:07.840 somebody about you know, getting out and going back home, 241 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:10.039 right And so they said, wait a minute. They went 242 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:14.399 back and uh, you know, rechecked, and they got us 243 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:17.320 another set of orders. So those came in like right 244 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:21.039 before the class graduated. But they were wrong also for 245 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:23.840 for three of us. Everybody else they got theirs. 246 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:25.080 Uh. 247 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:28.960 They actually some of them accepted the Hawaii assignment, and 248 00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:31.399 then the other set came in and it said, uh, 249 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:35.039 Airborne Italy. And so some of those guys. Some of 250 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:37.279 the other guys just took the airborne assignment to Italy 251 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:41.039 and they were told the same thing, Well, you can volunteer. 252 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:42.919 Once you get done with airborne school. But we never 253 00:12:42.919 --> 00:12:45.279 saw those guys again. And then. 254 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:49.440 So we said, hey, listen, you know, listen, we want, 255 00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:50.480 we need our orders. 256 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:51.320 They're not correct. 257 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:54.480 So they held us over for an entire cycle at 258 00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:56.919 Fort sam Houston, which wasn't a bad deal. 259 00:12:57.799 --> 00:12:58.000 You know. 260 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:02.759 We we were frocked as drill corporals and made like 261 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:08.279 additional cadre to supplement the cadre there, which meant we 262 00:13:08.279 --> 00:13:12.039 we mainly did CQ, charge of quarters duty at the 263 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:15.679 desk a couple of nights a week, and then we 264 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:18.919 ran the PT for what they called school for soldiers. 265 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:21.720 Anytime people messed up during the week, they held them 266 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:25.200 over on Saturday and we ran PT for him and 267 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:28.960 so we got to, you know, push him pretty hard physically. 268 00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:32.360 And in the meantime, because we had completed our medic training, 269 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:36.240 we had the MOS we taught or excuse me, we 270 00:13:36.279 --> 00:13:39.600 worked at the Troop Medical Clinic, so we were working 271 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:42.720 into the TMC on the days we weren't doing CQ, 272 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:47.759 and you know, working asthmetics and then myself and one 273 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:51.799 other guy, Joe Colpe, who went to first group and 274 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:55.919 was you know, became an SF guy as well. We 275 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:59.960 were working on Metavac in the afternoon, so we would 276 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:02.320 get to fly Metavac, which is pretty cool. You know, 277 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:05.120 I've never been on a helicopter before, so we were 278 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:07.799 doing that with them. We didn't really see anything as 279 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:10.840 far as casualties or you know, anything like that, but 280 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:14.279 we got to got to fly around. We're getting you know, 281 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:17.679 hands on training in the TMC and so it was 282 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:20.559 it was pretty good. And then finally got our orders 283 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:23.879 to go, like towards the end of that cycle to 284 00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:26.639 go to Fort Benning and start airborne school. 285 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:32.440 Wow. So you get to Benning do airborne and then 286 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:36.320 it's a brag. And when you get to brag, did 287 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:39.159 they do I mean s fas I don't think existed 288 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.399 yet right until like no, Examn. What was it like 289 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:45.399 for you getting into SF and going through that process? 290 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:46.799 Yeah, so it was. 291 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:50.480 It was interesting because first and foremost I had no 292 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:54.399 clue about the military whatsoever. Because this, you know, going 293 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:56.759 to Fort Bragg was really like gonna be my first 294 00:14:56.799 --> 00:15:00.279 real duty station, and so you know, I I got 295 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:04.399 my orders, I went to Fayetteville and all my orders 296 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:07.279 it had it set up to where I could take 297 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:08.200 thirty days leave. 298 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:11.559 Well I read that as I had to take thirty 299 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:12.120 days leave. 300 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:15.759 So, you know, I was over there, and at the time, 301 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:19.399 I had cousins and uncles that lived in Fayetteville because 302 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:22.360 they had been in the military, and so you know, 303 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:24.679 I spent some time with them, and I was looking 304 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:26.759 at my orders after I'd been there a couple of 305 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:30.039 weeks because I was bored, and you know, I said, well, 306 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:33.320 you know, I was talked to one of my cousins 307 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:34.720 and he said, well, you know, you can always just 308 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:36.240 go by and check it out. So I went by 309 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:39.600 to check things out to see, well, hey, you know, 310 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:41.919 what do I gotta do. And they're like, okay, you 311 00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:43.399 signing in. And I was like, what do you mean 312 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:45.360 signing in? And they've explained it to me, like, well, 313 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:47.840 you can sign in now, or you can go in 314 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:49.279 and take the rest of your leave, but you got 315 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:50.960 to be here by this day. And I was like, well, 316 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:54.679 I'll sign in now. So I signed in. And at 317 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:57.960 the time, they were running a pre phase is what 318 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:00.720 they called it, and it was in the old Coscom 319 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:04.000 area in on Fort Bragg in the World War Two breaks, 320 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:06.120 and so they put us in there and you had 321 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:11.639 to wait for your your you know class time to 322 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:15.840 go out to Camp McCall. That was Phase one, you know, 323 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.960 Basic Skills, and so you would sign in and then 324 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:22.600 they would have all of the kind of you know 325 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:24.440 selection evaluations. 326 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:25.960 You know, we did the PT test. 327 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:28.519 We did the swim test, we did the RUCK, so 328 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:31.919 everything was just kind of checking the block to make 329 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:36.120 sure you met the minimum qualifications, and you know, we 330 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:39.759 did that and basically we were doing it like all week, 331 00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:41.440 and we did it for a couple of weeks. 332 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:41.639 In a row. 333 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:44.879 So I took a lot of swim tests and there 334 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:49.360 was always PT test, swim test, twelve mile ruck. So 335 00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:51.159 they would do it like back to back to back, 336 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.080 and you know, we guys out and then you would 337 00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:57.679 wait for your class. And while you were waiting in 338 00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:01.519 pre phase, they had this informal selection process that the. 339 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:02.600 CADRET was running. 340 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:06.160 And the way it worked is they divided you up 341 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:11.160 into elements and you went to these different training events 342 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:13.799 and it would start on a you go on a 343 00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:16.400 Monday and you'd either go to Basic Skills where you 344 00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:20.039 you know, went over not tying, repelling, you know, a 345 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:24.880 few other things like that. The other section was patrolling, 346 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:29.359 so you go out, you'd learn patrolling. They would you know, educate. 347 00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:29.519 You on that. 348 00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:35.720 And then the other one was you go over survival skills. 349 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:38.000 You know, I didn't really do anything for them, but 350 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:40.519 you went through the classes, learned some of the things, 351 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:43.160 and then they had a land nav portion where you 352 00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:46.079 would practice land nav but it was on Fort Bragg 353 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:48.319 and you know, they would start you off with just 354 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:52.160 a basic you know, compass course, make sure you understood 355 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:53.359 how to operate things. 356 00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:55.720 But they would rotate you through these. 357 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:57.720 You would start on Monday and then you would go 358 00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:01.279 for a week and then over the weekend they would 359 00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:04.559 usually rotate you out. But they had a kind of 360 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:07.400 an interesting process where they did it. Sometimes is they 361 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:09.039 would just call you in and a lot of time 362 00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:10.240 it was in the middle of the night. They would 363 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:12.960 have you grab all your stuff line up in front 364 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:15.160 of one of the buildings. You'd come in and sit 365 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:16.880 down in front of a desk and the guy would 366 00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:19.240 pull out a folder and he'd look at it. I'm 367 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:21.240 pretty sure now he would pull him off with stack. 368 00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:23.559 It was probably blank, yeah, and he would pull out. 369 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:26.319 He would say, hey, macawee, it doesn't look like you're 370 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:30.000 doing very good. You know, I think you'd be better 371 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:31.759 off to just go ahead and quit. We can get 372 00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:34.079 you a nice assignment. You don't necessarily have to leave 373 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:37.160 Fort Bragg, otherwise you're probably gonna wind up going being 374 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:40.920 sent to Korea or someplace like that. And they would 375 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:44.079 basically try to talk you into quitting, and you know, 376 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:46.559 I would just say, well, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna 377 00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:49.880 keep trying. Sorry, you know, I'm good. And so they 378 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:53.319 they say, okay, go to building twenty seven to fifty 379 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:56.000 six or whatever, take all your stuff and report over there. 380 00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:58.039 So you grab your stuff and you go to the building, 381 00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:00.759 and then you'd start a new phase. Well, when you 382 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:04.079 got there, you would look around and your group of 383 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:05.039 guys were split up. 384 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:07.559 They weren't there anymore. You didn't see them, and. 385 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.079 You're like, oh, man, I guess I guess those guys quit. 386 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.839 And so you would go through the week, do your stuff, 387 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:15.519 a lot of it, you know, would be out in 388 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:17.960 the field, depending on which section you're working on, and 389 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:21.400 then come Friday morning, you'd be back in getting breakfast 390 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:23.519 at the mess hall and then you'd see the guys 391 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:26.119 and you're like, hey, I thought you quit, and they're like, no, 392 00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:29.599 we were doing this phase that phase, and so you know, 393 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:33.960 we would link back up there. Sometimes the guys did quit, 394 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:35.960 but a lot of times it was you know, all 395 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:38.119 in your head that they didn't make it or whatever. 396 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.400 And it was the classic thing. Every event was always 397 00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:43.640 you know, with the deuce and half behind you, and 398 00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:47.400 the instructors would always say, you know, okay, take your stuff, 399 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:50.160 get on the truck. There's coffee and donuts at the 400 00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:52.720 White House. You know all that, they were always giving 401 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:55.519 you that same spiel trying to get you to quit. 402 00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:58.720 Today, I want to tell you guys about quality of 403 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:02.839 stem cells. 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Qualitia just helps it do 445 00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:21.799 that better. A big thanks to Qualia for sponsoring this episode. 446 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:26.160 And it was all voluntary for you to give up 447 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:29.519 and to quit doing that, and then once they finished 448 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:33.599 that portion, you would wait for your class to come 449 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.480 up and you would go to Camp McCall. Well, when 450 00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:41.400 they originally they took my group and we went out 451 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:43.680 to Camp McCall and I got out there and I 452 00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:46.079 was out there maybe a day or so we had 453 00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:50.319 really just in process, and they called out, you know, okay, 454 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:53.240 let's have all the eighteen problems over here, let's have 455 00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:56.240 all the eighteen charlies over here. And actually I don't 456 00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:58.359 think they had even labeled the most. They were saying, Hey, 457 00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:00.680 all the weapons guys here, all the engineers here, and 458 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:03.039 everybody left. And I was kind of standing there by myself, 459 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:04.880 and I asked one of the cabin was like, hey, 460 00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:08.400 starting what about the medics. He's like, medics, You're a medic. 461 00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:11.920 And I was like, yes, Sorr. And he goes, come here, 462 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:14.039 and so he took me up to the headshed. He goes, 463 00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:16.279 wait out here. He went inside. I heard a little 464 00:23:16.279 --> 00:23:18.759 bit of yelling this and that, and he goes, go 465 00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:22.039 get your stuff, and then you know, I got my stuff, 466 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:24.759 came back, he goes get on the truck, and he 467 00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:26.519 didn't tell me anything, you know, and they sent me 468 00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:27.359 back to Fort Bragg. 469 00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:30.920 And so I was like, well, I had no idea 470 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:31.440 what happened. 471 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:34.440 I got back to the uh, you know, the staff 472 00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:38.839 office where the tax were on Fort Bragg in the 473 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:39.759 Coscom area. 474 00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:41.599 They looked around talking. 475 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:44.160 I guess somewhere on my paperwork it had said that 476 00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:47.400 I was a weapons guy, and I was like, no, 477 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:50.480 I'm a ninety one problem. I'm a medic. And so 478 00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:52.000 they're like, well, you're not supposed to be out there. 479 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:55.799 They've they've shifted the course and now everybody's going to 480 00:23:56.559 --> 00:23:58.319 all the medics are going to go to Fort sam 481 00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:00.640 first and make sure they can pass before where they 482 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:05.079 bother to send him to, you know, out to Phase one. 483 00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:06.240 And I was like okay. 484 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:09.559 So I was kind of stuck waiting around, and in 485 00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:13.359 that time they put us on different details, and you know, 486 00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:15.599 we had some good ones. We had one to where 487 00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:18.880 we actually had one of the other medics, a guy 488 00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:22.160 named Dan Rodgers, had owned a martial arts school in 489 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:26.240 Fayetteville and was a really accomplished martial arts instructor. So 490 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:28.720 they didn't have anything to do with us for one week, 491 00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:30.119 so they kind of turned us over to him and 492 00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:31.759 let him train us a little bit, so we got 493 00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:35.400 some training. Another time they would send us, let us 494 00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:37.599 go to the hospital and work over there, and we 495 00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:40.319 even got set up to wear On the weekends, we 496 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:44.279 could go to the emergency room at Womack and get 497 00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:46.839 signed off and you know, do different things so you 498 00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:48.720 could get extra training in. 499 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:49.480 While you're waiting. 500 00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:52.799 And then one of the most interesting things for me 501 00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:55.440 as I got stuck on a detail because I was 502 00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:56.440 one of the guys that my. 503 00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:00.519 Security clearance had already come through. And so we had 504 00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:04.119 a guy come over, you know, older looking guy, long. 505 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:09.200 Gray hair, big mustache, glasses, wearing a flannel shirt and jeans, 506 00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:11.880 and uh, you know, they told they told us, I 507 00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:13.640 think there was like four or five of us, like, okay, 508 00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:15.000 you're gonna go with him, And. 509 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:15.920 So we went with the guy. 510 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:19.599 We went over to the other side of post and 511 00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:22.000 you know, he had a little van that he put 512 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:24.759 us in and he's like, hold on, wait here. He 513 00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:28.440 got out, came back and he handed out clipboards and said, 514 00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:30.759 make sure you're reading signed these statements. And so we 515 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:34.000 were reading the statements and they were non disclosure statements 516 00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:36.240 about how we wouldn't talk about anything we saw, we 517 00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:40.279 wouldn't speculate about anything. And then he took us out 518 00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:42.519 onto the range and we were doing range clean up, 519 00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:46.559 and uh, it was kind of interesting because you know 520 00:25:46.599 --> 00:25:48.119 he would tell us, hey, I want you to do this, 521 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:50.960 and and like one day he he had a there 522 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:54.680 was a target training area that was a building and 523 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:57.279 he said, hey, uh, you know there's a front end 524 00:25:57.279 --> 00:25:57.720 loader there. 525 00:25:57.759 --> 00:25:59.480 Any of you guys know how to operate a loader? 526 00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:02.759 And the guy who's looked around, I said, I I 527 00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:04.920 know a little bit because you know, I had worked construction. 528 00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:07.279 And he goes, okay, jump on it and knock that 529 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:11.599 building down, and and I was like, uh, you're sure. 530 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:13.759 He goes, yeah, just do it. He goes, I'll be back, 531 00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:16.039 and he would leave us and we would go knock this, 532 00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.440 you know, I would knock the building down, we'd clean 533 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:20.759 it up. He'd come back around lunchtime with some old 534 00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:23.519 sea rats and give us something to eat, give us 535 00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:25.720 the next thing to do. But we got to see 536 00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:28.319 a few cool things, do some good training. But I 537 00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:32.359 found out later that this was Sergeant Major Walt Shoemy. 538 00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:35.599 He was like one of the plank holders for for 539 00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:40.839 SFODA Delta and we had no idea at the time, 540 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:42.160 but super great guy. 541 00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:43.000 You know. 542 00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:45.000 He took us over to eat in the Buttoner Road 543 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:49.160 mess hall that used to be the old Delta dining facility, 544 00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:51.960 and uh, you know, so we worked for him for 545 00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:54.960 I think about a month and a half, maybe doing 546 00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:58.680 different things cleaning up stuff. We saw a few you know, 547 00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:03.640 cool training extra sizes here and there, but really interesting 548 00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:05.400 to work with him and kind of be mentored with 549 00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:07.559 that free and easy style. 550 00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:10.839 Yeah yeah, I mean yeah. I picture the guy coming 551 00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:13.359 walking up wearing his cowboy boots and his flannel shirt. 552 00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:17.799 That's him. Absolutely yeah. 553 00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:19.759 And we thought he was just some who retired guy, 554 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:22.279 but you know, he was still with the main guys 555 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:25.079 running all the training and it's pretty cool. 556 00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.279 And Walt Hue made if I recall correctly, he was 557 00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:34.039 killed in Somalia in ninety three. 558 00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:36.160 I don't think he was. 559 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:39.119 I think he if I remember correctly, I believe he 560 00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:41.720 died later. He actually died of cancer. 561 00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:45.920 Did he? Who am I confusing him with then? But 562 00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:48.799 we'll come back to that, And I apologize if my 563 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:49.720 fast off. 564 00:27:50.119 --> 00:27:56.240 In fact, I think he had already, you know, passed 565 00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:58.359 before ninety three. 566 00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:01.720 Me let me see, since we're here and we can 567 00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:03.359 edit this a little bit if we need to, let 568 00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:04.960 me let me look it up to make sure, because 569 00:28:05.079 --> 00:28:06.720 I would feel bad if I got that wrong. 570 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:10.400 Okay, and I'm certainly not sure, but I believe he 571 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:11.119 died of cancer. 572 00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:16.599 Is the person I'm thinking of? What it was. It 573 00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:19.599 was a mine. He was oga guys and they were 574 00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:22.880 driving around and ran over a mine. That would be 575 00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:26.720 deeks okay, okay, certain des. 576 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.519 From fifth Group and that was in Somalia. 577 00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:42.920 Yeah, let's see here, going down, going down. No, this 578 00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:46.119 Shoemate retired in nineteen eighty two and continued to serve 579 00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:48.319 and Delta as a civilian until his death in nineteen 580 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:54.759 ninety three. So it was that timeframe, but it doesn't 581 00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:55.920 say what what killed him. 582 00:28:57.279 --> 00:28:59.279 Yeah, I'm sure. I'm appreciure he died of cancer. 583 00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:21.359 Let's see here, found something else on him? Yes, you're yes, okay, 584 00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:24.200 I got it here. Yeah he worked, okay, Yeah, so 585 00:29:24.279 --> 00:29:29.960 he worked as from nine, retired in nineteen eighty two, 586 00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:33.200 continued to work as a civilian safety officer on Range 587 00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:34.720 nineteen until his death. 588 00:29:34.799 --> 00:29:37.000 Yeah, in nineteen ninety that's where he worked. 589 00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:41.519 Yeah. Yeah, nineteen ninety three he passed away of cancer. Yeah, 590 00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:51.720 so thank you for correcting me. So you spent almost 591 00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:54.559 twenty years in Fifth Group once you finished the Q course, 592 00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:58.799 which is pretty cool in of itself, But tell us 593 00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:02.000 about kind of you know, I actually we haven't even 594 00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:04.440 really gotten into talked about the Q course at all. 595 00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:07.079 Is there any funny stories about your your time, like 596 00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:08.599 when you got to the Q course that you want 597 00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:10.359 to tell before we get to fifth group? 598 00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:14.279 I think maybe I hope the Statute of limitations on 599 00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:17.119 most of them, those run out, but uh the uh, 600 00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:21.039 I'm trying to think if there's any that are are 601 00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:26.079 are you know, obviously I don't have to worry about 602 00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:30.240 my political career, so those will be okay, but uh there. 603 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:32.480 You know, it was kind of a unique experience as 604 00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:36.559 I'm sure the the Q courses for everybody I know 605 00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:40.240 being a medic we were fortunate enough to be out 606 00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:41.359 at Fort sam Houston. 607 00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:45.400 And you know, I always hated it for the guys 608 00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:45.960 once they. 609 00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:49.160 Moved the medic course to brag because it's not the same, 610 00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:52.559 you know, you in Fort Sam Houston. You you're out there, 611 00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:56.119 You're gonna party all night every night and then wander 612 00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:58.200 in just in time for PT. And we had some 613 00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:00.319 of the hardest PT I think I've had in in 614 00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:06.160 s F was during the medic course. And uh, you know, 615 00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:10.319 we had a a former scuba guy out there named 616 00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:14.079 Pat Mahoney that uh you know from tenth group that 617 00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:16.759 pushed us pretty hard with the PT. 618 00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:21.359 Yeah, sure, I know, mahoney, Yeah. 619 00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:23.559 Yeah, he's he's still around. 620 00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:26.039 Uh, I see him on Facebook every once in a while, 621 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:29.240 but uh, you know, he was was one of the 622 00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:32.599 guys that kind of pushed pushed us through there. And 623 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.880 the PT was was pretty rough. The academic stuff was 624 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:37.920 you know, and I'm sure it still is. Was was 625 00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:42.319 really tough. But what made it interesting was the the guys. 626 00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:45.720 And for me, it was the replacement for my college years. 627 00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:48.920 So I was, you know, running a mont going out 628 00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:51.279 with the guys and I actually didn't drink until they 629 00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:54.359 got in the Army and then uh got. 630 00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:55.319 To San Antonio. 631 00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:58.680 That's where I started, you know, embracing my Irish heritage 632 00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:00.400 and kind of giving it a run. 633 00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:02.640 And so once we. 634 00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:07.720 Got there, I'd literally almost failed out because I partied 635 00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:09.920 too much. But the only thing that kept me in 636 00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:11.680 is there are a lot of great guys that were 637 00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:14.599 there that you know, I rode their coat tails, and 638 00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:17.599 that was kind of my story through all of the 639 00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:20.039 Q courses. There were a couple of guys from Ranger 640 00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:23.400 Battalion that helped me during phase one and kind of 641 00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:26.119 you know, got me through the patrolling and those those 642 00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:29.480 skills that obviously I had no experience, as you know, 643 00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:33.079 with because i'd been a civilian prior. And then while 644 00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:35.039 I was at Fort Saying, we had some guys that 645 00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:38.799 one of them in particular that was prior fifth group, 646 00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:44.039 that was reclassifying and as a medic, and you know, 647 00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:46.920 he was one of the guys that helped get me 648 00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:50.559 through that academic side of things. But I really wouldn't 649 00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:53.079 have made it if it hadn't been for those guys 650 00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:55.519 for whatever reason, you know, kind of taken me under 651 00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:57.759 their wing like a mascot because I was this young 652 00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:02.160 kid that had no clue, and you know, evidently they 653 00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:04.720 thought I was entertaining, so they kind of kept me 654 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.240 along for the ride until I got through the Q course. 655 00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:11.599 And tell us about getting to fifth Group and sort 656 00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:13.720 of what year that was and what it was like 657 00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:14.440 at that time. 658 00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:18.920 Yeah, so initially, and you and I talked about this 659 00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:20.839 just before the podcast is I didn't want to go 660 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:23.720 to fifth Group. In fact, I don't know of anybody 661 00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:25.400 at the time back in the day that wanted to 662 00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:28.279 go to fifth Group. Fifth Group was on Fort Bragg 663 00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:30.799 and at the time, I think about all they ever 664 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:36.000 did was a post clean up detail, and so I 665 00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:39.160 actually had taken like three years of Spanish in high school, 666 00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:41.359 and so you know, I was this white kid that 667 00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:45.359 could speak a little bit of Spanish. I made some connections, 668 00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:48.799 like toward the end of the Q course and went 669 00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:51.000 over had one of the guys take me over to 670 00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:54.279 one of the battalion start and majors of the Seventh Group, 671 00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:57.079 because at the time, Seventh Group was involved in Central America. 672 00:33:57.160 --> 00:33:58.519 They had all the cool stuff going on. 673 00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:01.680 They were the place to be, and so I went 674 00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:03.839 over there, talked to him, gave him my host spiel 675 00:34:03.880 --> 00:34:06.640 in Spanish. You know, he was like, all, this is great. 676 00:34:06.680 --> 00:34:08.800 You know, we actually got a white guy that speaks Spanish. 677 00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:10.840 We'd love to have you over here. Let me get 678 00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:13.800 your social Security number. He got all my information, said yeah, 679 00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:15.840 we're gonna try to get you some orders, get you 680 00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:18.960 a Seventh Group. And then you know, I'm standing out 681 00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:21.119 there when we all got our orders and ninety percent 682 00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:22.239 of us went to Fifth Group. 683 00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:24.320 Just you know, that's just how it was. 684 00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:27.559 And Fifth Group was I think the last choice on 685 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:30.960 my list at the time, but it actually turned out 686 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:33.639 to be like probably the best experience ever for me. 687 00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:36.960 I went over to the other side of the post. They 688 00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:39.280 were over there off of Buttoner Road and the old 689 00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:44.639 World War two Barrick Still and initially I got assigned 690 00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:49.440 to first Battalion, a fifth Special Forces Group. I signed in, 691 00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:51.760 and you know, the really cool thing about it is 692 00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:54.360 when I showed up, like all of these guys that 693 00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:55.559 were sart Majors and. 694 00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:57.280 A lot of them that were Team Startans. 695 00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:01.159 Were these senior guys that had been to Vietnam. Some 696 00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:03.400 of the rest of them had been and done tours 697 00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:06.760 in Iran. And there even used to be stories about 698 00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:09.639 how some of them had second wives and families, you know, 699 00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:12.760 in Iran. I don't know if it's true, hard to say, 700 00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:15.719 but you know, we had all these guys that had 701 00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:20.320 all this real world experience, and the interesting thing about 702 00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:22.280 it at the time is you really couldn't tell because 703 00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:24.559 you'd be out there mowing the grass with them and 704 00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:28.159 you'd see the sard major with the lawnmower, the weed eater, 705 00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:30.639 and I remember a couple of times going over and saying, hey, 706 00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:33.039 Sartin Major, let me do that, and he was like, no, 707 00:35:33.159 --> 00:35:35.440 get out of here. You know, that's the privilege of 708 00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:37.679 being the Sart Majors. You get the weed eater, and 709 00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:41.519 you know, so it was interesting because we had all 710 00:35:41.559 --> 00:35:44.480 these guys that were real heroes that you really just 711 00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:46.960 couldn't tell because they were very normal guys. They were 712 00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:50.360 pulling their weight just like everybody else. But when you 713 00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:54.119 weren't doing post cleanup and you were actually doing training 714 00:35:54.199 --> 00:35:57.079 or anything, you got that benefit of all that wisdom. 715 00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:01.719 And you know, I didn't even realize how much of 716 00:36:01.719 --> 00:36:05.039 that was was there until I went to PLDC. When 717 00:36:05.079 --> 00:36:07.719 I graduated the Q course, I was just a spect 718 00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:10.480 for so I was aspect for with a Special Forces tab. 719 00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:13.039 I think I was like one of maybe ten in 720 00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:16.559 the whole army like that. So I went to PLDC 721 00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:18.800 so I could get promoted. And when I got there, 722 00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:21.440 you know, they were talking about all these things and 723 00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:23.920 procedures and stuff in the army, and you know, it 724 00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:25.960 was kind of a group discussion format and they would 725 00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:30.079 ask questions about, you know, military things, and I knew 726 00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:31.880 the answers, and a lot of the guys. 727 00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:32.599 Were like, well, how do you know that. 728 00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:34.679 I'm like, well, now I hear about that all the time, 729 00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:37.440 and all I had, you know, I didn't know how 730 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:39.679 to actually implement a lot of it. I hadn't done it, 731 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:43.480 but I'd heard these guys talk about it. I had 732 00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:47.480 heard their experience, and everything that I was taught was 733 00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:48.400 on a different level. 734 00:36:48.519 --> 00:36:50.519 I just didn't really know how to apply it yet. 735 00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:55.199 And it kind of got me, you know, clued in 736 00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:57.800 that I need to take things a lot more seriously 737 00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:01.239 and start really figuring out what it means to be 738 00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:04.360 a professional. And so that kind of worked out for me. 739 00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:08.119 And at one point I used to carry a list 740 00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:11.440 in my pocket, like when I first got there, and 741 00:37:11.559 --> 00:37:14.159 my list was why I'm not going to re enlist. 742 00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:17.199 It was all the reasons about you know, how I'm 743 00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:20.159 you know, doing all this post cleanup. And part of 744 00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:23.800 it was I had come in expecting to do great things, 745 00:37:24.519 --> 00:37:26.400 you know, and I really I didn't realize that I 746 00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:28.760 hadn't put in my time, I hadn't paid my debt. 747 00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:29.840 I didn't know what I was doing. 748 00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:32.719 I had no business getting to do the super cool 749 00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:36.840 stuff yet, and but you know, I wanted it like 750 00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:42.559 every other young kid that showed up. And I finally, 751 00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:45.440 you know, I had my list and the star major. 752 00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:48.320 It was getting close to time to relist and the 753 00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:50.880 sar major you know, would pull you in and you 754 00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:52.880 don't even have the reenlistment talk with you. And I 755 00:37:53.559 --> 00:37:55.960 told him, no, I'm not reenlisted. I'm not doing this. 756 00:37:56.559 --> 00:37:58.400 And you know, he asked me one time, He's like, 757 00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:00.679 well why not? And I pulled out my list and 758 00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:07.280 so I'm yeah. He loved it all right, but maybe 759 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:09.239 not the best mood for young troop. But what he 760 00:38:09.320 --> 00:38:12.039 did was, you know, it was kind of smart is 761 00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:15.000 He said, okay, fine, and he sent me out to 762 00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:18.079 El Paso, Texas. We had a project out there called 763 00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:21.000 the B five hundred team, and this B five hundred 764 00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:27.000 team was responsible for developing desert tactics, desert equipment, and 765 00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:30.119 just kind of putting together the whole concept of how 766 00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:32.719 to operate and be more effective in the desert. And 767 00:38:33.639 --> 00:38:37.199 they were also out there as cadre to rotate teams 768 00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:41.320 through to do desert training and you know, they did 769 00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:45.239 training on desert survival signaling. At the time, we were 770 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:48.199 also working with how to use theodolites and how to 771 00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:53.599 navigate with vehicles like overland with using these sextant style 772 00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:56.440 you know, pieces of equipment that they used to use 773 00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:59.719 for sailing because the desert so you know, wide open 774 00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.840 and and using these books of star charts and everything. Well, 775 00:39:02.840 --> 00:39:05.320 I got out there as a as a medic, and 776 00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:08.039 you know, when I got out there, one of the 777 00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:10.519 things I saw is they had these vehicles. You know, 778 00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:13.519 we had these fsvs at the time, the fast Attack 779 00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:17.760 Vehicles favs, and they were these you know, dune buggies 780 00:39:17.800 --> 00:39:20.760 with Porsche engines that would just fly across the desert 781 00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:25.360 and but they broke down all the time. So spend 782 00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:28.719 a lot of time working on these dune buggies. And 783 00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:33.599 then they also had motorcycles. Well I remember specifically we 784 00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:35.960 were out doing some training and one of the guys 785 00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:41.159 wrecked and ran one of the motorcycles into a cactus 786 00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:43.800 patch and I mean just got it like all over him. 787 00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:46.639 And as the medic, I wound up picking the stuff 788 00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:50.280 out of him, mostly out of his posterior area. And 789 00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:52.000 while I was doing it, of course, I was giving 790 00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:53.599 him a hard time. I was still kind of a 791 00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:56.719 young smart alec because I had made it through as 792 00:39:56.760 --> 00:40:00.360 an you know E four with a tab and now 793 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:03.199 I had my E five and so I was doing 794 00:40:03.199 --> 00:40:05.440 that and at the time, you know, I aggravated him 795 00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:07.280 enough and he said, well, you know, I guess you 796 00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:10.519 think you could do better, and I said, well, actually, 797 00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:11.559 I'm pretty sure I can. 798 00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:14.400 And what he didn't know is that when I was in. 799 00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:18.519 High school I risked motocross, so I had some experience 800 00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:21.000 with the bikes, and so they let me get on 801 00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:23.480 the bikes and run around, and you know, as it 802 00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:26.119 turned out, I could do it pretty well. And for 803 00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:28.840 the first time since I'd been in the Army, I 804 00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:31.000 had a great time. I started to enjoying what I 805 00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:34.119 was doing, and the guys out there were really serious 806 00:40:34.119 --> 00:40:36.880 about training. Training was you know it was we would 807 00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:39.320 go out on you know, usually on Monday morning, stay 808 00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:42.360 out all week. We would train a lot of night training. 809 00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:44.440 You know, we were jumping all the time on Big 810 00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:47.719 s Field. We were very active with a lot of stuff. 811 00:40:47.719 --> 00:40:49.480 And then we would have the teams come through on 812 00:40:49.639 --> 00:40:53.840 rotation for you know, survival training, and then we would 813 00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:57.400 monitor them while they moved through you know, these E 814 00:40:57.519 --> 00:40:59.559 and E lanes that were set up for him and 815 00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:03.360 did practice desert survival. So it finally was starting to 816 00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:07.079 look like SF that I had envisioned, and it got 817 00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:10.440 me just fired up enough that when I left there 818 00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:14.880 and I went back to Fort Bragg, they were asking 819 00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:18.440 my start major and he's kind of infamous start major Sims. 820 00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:21.360 You know, I don't know how many people know him, 821 00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:25.320 but big tall, black guy with a high pitched voice 822 00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:29.639 that had been in Vietnam, and you know, it was 823 00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:32.639 famous for the way he talked. And you know, he 824 00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:34.599 had the formation out there one day and he goes, 825 00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:37.559 I need some guys to go to language school, to 826 00:41:37.719 --> 00:41:40.440 Fosse's and headdo and you know, and I didn't know 827 00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:42.519 what that was. I had no idea what farce he was. 828 00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:46.880 But you know, I volunteered because it was a year 829 00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:51.679 long command language program at Fort Bragg, and my idea 830 00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:55.079 was I would take it. I would re enlist, get 831 00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:57.000 the at the time, they had a twenty thousand dollars 832 00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:01.960 bonus for medics to reenlist, and then I would go 833 00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:05.320 to night school, get some college, get some education, you know, 834 00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:09.639 start getting a little bit more serious about things. And 835 00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:13.519 then at that time, during language school, I got married 836 00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:15.800 to my first wife, as a true s f G. 837 00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:18.679 And then so while I was in. 838 00:42:18.679 --> 00:42:23.639 Language school, I was taking night classes and having an 839 00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:25.679 English class at night, and I wound up being the 840 00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:30.480 distinguished Honor graduate from the Persian Parsi class, and which 841 00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:34.280 worked out real well later because you know, it got 842 00:42:34.280 --> 00:42:38.119 me set up to be an interpreter for a classified 843 00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:41.599 mission overseas with Fifth Group. But once I got through 844 00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:45.519 language school and that stabilized me long enough for them 845 00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:49.920 to go ahead and move first Battalion and you know, 846 00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:53.559 start moving second Battalion up to Fort Campbell. And so 847 00:42:53.639 --> 00:42:56.480 once I got out of Language school, then they moved 848 00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:58.639 up to Fort Campbell and I went up there, which 849 00:42:58.639 --> 00:43:02.039 I was really excited about, like build in, like Fort Bragg. 850 00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:05.079 I was really happy to be going up to Fort 851 00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:11.239 Campbell in Tennessee. And so that kind of you started 852 00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:14.280 things off for me. I got a little different feel 853 00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:16.280 for what it might be like to actually be in 854 00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:17.039 Special Forces. 855 00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:20.880 This time of year, the pace doesn't slow down, but 856 00:43:20.920 --> 00:43:24.760 you still need to. The calendar's packed, the weather's changing, 857 00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:27.239 and your body's reminding you that it's time to rest 858 00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:30.920 and reset. That's where ghost Bed can help. It's a 859 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:34.000 family run company founded by a team with over twenty 860 00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:38.280 years of mattress making expertise. They've spent decades perfecting how 861 00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:41.599 to build a bed that's durable, comfortable, and engineered to 862 00:43:41.639 --> 00:43:45.159 help you recover. 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Around nineteen eighty nine, 883 00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:07.039 I think, and we were still in them when I 884 00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:10.559 was there, those like World War two error buildings on 885 00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:11.679 the main post area. 886 00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:17.440 Yeah, they had the World War two barracks that were 887 00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:19.920 right beside our area, but then they had some newer 888 00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:23.000 ones that we had accepted. And the big controversy when 889 00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:25.440 we got there was there was an area off on 890 00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:31.199 one side of post that was the cab scout area, 891 00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:34.760 and everybody was really upset that we didn't take that area. 892 00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:37.480 It was kind of off by itself. It was, you know, 893 00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:41.599 out where range roads started. It was a really nice setup, 894 00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:43.480 but for some reason they didn't take it. We took 895 00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:45.719 these barracks that were like kind of right in the 896 00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:50.199 center post, same place they still are now. And the 897 00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:53.639 barracks weren't weren't like old World War two, but they 898 00:45:53.719 --> 00:45:58.280 definitely weren't new. They were the three story brick buildings 899 00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:01.440 there in the area. And so we got there, and 900 00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:05.480 I wasn't there very long before we got this deployment 901 00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:08.880 to go on a classified mission to do a six 902 00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:14.079 month rotation in Pushawar, Pakistan to UH. It was a 903 00:46:14.199 --> 00:46:16.800 mission under the UN called Operation Salam, where we were 904 00:46:16.840 --> 00:46:20.760 teaching d mining and UH. We were working with the 905 00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:25.119 Afghan Mujahideen, and uh, you know, so it worked out 906 00:46:25.159 --> 00:46:28.800 well for me because I wound up being an interpreter 907 00:46:29.960 --> 00:46:33.320 to work with the guys there. And then also while 908 00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:37.119 I was there, I took some night classes through the 909 00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:41.079 the embassy to learn the Dhari dialect and so I 910 00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:45.599 kind of improved my you know, my my Persian to 911 00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:47.639 where I was dialed in pretty good to working with 912 00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:48.920 the Afghans. 913 00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:53.199 So, I mean, but the time frame you're there, the 914 00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:55.519 Soviets are still in Afghanistan. 915 00:46:54.920 --> 00:46:58.079 Right, Yeah, yes, yeah, they were, and a lot of 916 00:46:58.119 --> 00:46:59.920 the things that were going on were kind of directed 917 00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:05.639 towards supporting the Afghan munja Haden against the Soviets and 918 00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:08.440 trying to continue to push them out. 919 00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:11.960 Were you guys part of helping the like train and 920 00:47:11.960 --> 00:47:15.679 field them with the weapons that we were delivering the Pakistan. 921 00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:19.880 So that operation wasn't directly with that, but there were 922 00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:23.840 some other things going on that were coordinated through other 923 00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:27.960 government agencies that were focused primarily on that, and we 924 00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:31.519 definitely had some interesting encounters while we were there. I know, 925 00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:35.119 one of the things that happened while we were in 926 00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:38.679 Pakistan is you know, we would go out to train 927 00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:41.039 and we had about an hour drive out to the 928 00:47:41.079 --> 00:47:44.840 training area where we were working with these Munjahadeen and 929 00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:48.320 and it was you know, further north, and so you know, 930 00:47:48.360 --> 00:47:50.960 we would have this long bus ride every day in 931 00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:54.559 the morning and then also back in the evening or afternoon, 932 00:47:55.679 --> 00:47:58.440 and then one day, you know, we would tend to 933 00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:01.199 fall asleep on the way back. And to be honest, 934 00:48:01.239 --> 00:48:04.800 it's because we had connection to the American Club and 935 00:48:04.840 --> 00:48:07.800 we're able to go in there. And for me, I 936 00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:10.639 was still young, and I was going out drinking every 937 00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:13.760 night and living it up. But you know, I was 938 00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:16.880 on the on the van. We had a big like 939 00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:20.400 twelve passenger van, sixteen passenger van that was driven by 940 00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:24.920 a local, and so I was sitting there, you know, asleep, 941 00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:27.159 and all of a sudden I heard the slam into 942 00:48:27.639 --> 00:48:30.320 the side of the vehicle and I woke up, and 943 00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:32.800 we were surrounded by a crowd of people that were 944 00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:35.800 having a protest and a riot, and we were basically 945 00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:39.199 trapped because of the traffic. And you know, at the time, 946 00:48:39.239 --> 00:48:41.920 we weren't we weren't issued or allowed to have any 947 00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:45.480 actual weapons. But because of the way things were working, 948 00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:48.320 we were going to this town called Dara, which is 949 00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:51.199 like the weapons bazaar along the border, and they had 950 00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:54.280 all the weapons that they had recovered from the battles 951 00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:56.599 with the Soviets, a lot of the things that were 952 00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:59.639 being sold to them by you know, the aspects of 953 00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:02.880 our gun government. And we would go there and negotiate, 954 00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:05.679 and because I was one of the interpreters, I would 955 00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:09.599 help negotiate to purchase these mines and they were live mines, 956 00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:12.119 and then we would bring them back and make them 957 00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:15.840 inert to use as training aids well. When we would 958 00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:18.559 go there, because we didn't have any weapons, one of 959 00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:20.880 the things we did was some of the guys purchased 960 00:49:21.320 --> 00:49:25.119 you know, their own black market weapons that we definitely 961 00:49:25.159 --> 00:49:27.840 weren't supposed to have. Some of us had Russian hand grenades, 962 00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:30.320 some of us had you know, a couple guys had pistols, 963 00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:32.840 but you know, hand grenades were only like two dollars apiece, 964 00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:37.000 so you know, the guys were stalking up to have something. 965 00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:40.360 Because the town itself was definitely the wild wild West 966 00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:43.480 in the shower, and I remember I had you know, 967 00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:46.360 a big knife in my backpack and a couple other things, 968 00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:49.719 and so I woke up with this riot going on 969 00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:52.679 and the rocks were bouncing off our van, and everybody 970 00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:55.440 was scrambling, and so I took my backpack, placed it 971 00:49:55.519 --> 00:49:58.320 up against the window so the glass wouldn't shatter and 972 00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:00.960 get on me, and started opening it up and pulling 973 00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:02.880 out my knife and getting ready for whatever was going 974 00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:05.039 to happen. And then, you know, we looked around a 975 00:50:05.079 --> 00:50:08.320 little bit and we found out that they weren't actually 976 00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:11.840 attacking us. They were across the road and they were 977 00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:14.400 throwing rocks and they were trying to reach across the 978 00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:19.519 road and hit the local law enforcement which was out 979 00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:20.440 there in riot gear. 980 00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:22.239 Well, we didn't see them initially. 981 00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:23.840 We just saw the people throwing rocks, so we thought 982 00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:25.760 it was directed at us, that they had figured out, 983 00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:28.880 you know, a van full of white guys down there, 984 00:50:29.239 --> 00:50:31.559 and they were going to overrun us. And you know, truthfully, 985 00:50:31.639 --> 00:50:34.199 is probably one of the more terrifying experiences I had 986 00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:34.960 in the military. 987 00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:37.599 But it worked out, and. 988 00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:41.639 The riot police actually moved across in front of us, 989 00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:44.760 hit them with some tear gas and you know, some shields, 990 00:50:44.760 --> 00:50:47.960 and gave them some wooden shampoo and kind of settled 991 00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:50.599 things down, and then we eventually got past the traffic 992 00:50:50.679 --> 00:50:53.719 jam and moved on out. But you know, that was 993 00:50:53.800 --> 00:50:55.760 just one of the many things that happened while we 994 00:50:55.760 --> 00:50:59.360 were on that deployment. And during one incident while we 995 00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:02.960 were there, we were about and what happened on a 996 00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:04.840 Friday when we kind of had a day off because 997 00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:05.719 that was the Holy Day. 998 00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:07.679 But myself and I think one of the. 999 00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:11.159 Other guys we were actually in like a local car 1000 00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:15.719 that belonged to one of the to uh, one of 1001 00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:19.559 the guys that worked for the consulate the American Club, 1002 00:51:20.079 --> 00:51:22.719 and you know, we never found out, but we're pretty 1003 00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:26.480 sure he was one of the other government agency individuals 1004 00:51:27.159 --> 00:51:28.760 and the you know, because we got to know him 1005 00:51:28.760 --> 00:51:31.239 over time. And of course he never said anything, but 1006 00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:34.480 because he's he also spoke Farsi, you know, I talked 1007 00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:36.639 to him a little bit and I found out eventually 1008 00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:39.440 through some other people that were there that he he 1009 00:51:39.639 --> 00:51:42.840 had been present whenever the Iranian Embassy was taken over 1010 00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:46.360 and you know, was in the American embassy when the 1011 00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:48.920 excuse me, when the Iranians took over the American embassy 1012 00:51:48.920 --> 00:51:53.400 in Iran. And so, you know, he was this kind 1013 00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:57.039 of crazy character that you know that was bigger than life, 1014 00:51:57.360 --> 00:51:59.840 and you would have swore he was, you know, just 1015 00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:04.880 flaming crazy, and but as it turned out, you know, 1016 00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:07.000 if you talk to him very long, you kind of 1017 00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:09.039 realized that he was a pretty smart guy and he 1018 00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:11.960 had some connections and some things going on. But we 1019 00:52:11.960 --> 00:52:14.840 would often like go down and steal his personal car 1020 00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:17.719 because I spoke Persian and his driver did. So we 1021 00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:20.480 would go down and tell the driver all the time that, hey, 1022 00:52:20.519 --> 00:52:24.199 mister Mike says, you take us a home, you know, 1023 00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:26.400 and he It was a running joke for a while. 1024 00:52:26.719 --> 00:52:28.880 But we were riding along in his car, headed back 1025 00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:32.559 to the house one afternoon and uh, about a block 1026 00:52:32.599 --> 00:52:34.599 in front of us, a car bomb went off and 1027 00:52:34.679 --> 00:52:38.199 cratered the road. And it had it had been targeted 1028 00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:40.599 against somebody there. I think one of the one of 1029 00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:43.320 the generals or you know, one of the tribal leaders. 1030 00:52:43.320 --> 00:52:45.719 I don't remember who, but it killed him and it 1031 00:52:46.039 --> 00:52:49.559 you know, wiped out a big section of town. Our 1032 00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:52.679 guy turned around, headed us back towards the consulate. We 1033 00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:55.159 were kind of just very barely lucky to get out 1034 00:52:55.159 --> 00:52:57.800 of it because it you know, it was a mess, 1035 00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:01.559 but it was you know, one of the the more 1036 00:53:01.639 --> 00:53:05.440 elaborate experiences during that time. And then we also had 1037 00:53:06.199 --> 00:53:08.159 one of the guys on the team that was in 1038 00:53:08.920 --> 00:53:12.199 my team house. And we were staying in these civilian 1039 00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:14.599 houses out on one side of the town in an 1040 00:53:14.679 --> 00:53:19.760 area called Hayatabad, and it was a fairly well to 1041 00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:23.840 do civilian area with these big three story houses. We 1042 00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:25.840 had a cook and a house boy, and then we 1043 00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:30.760 had these guards that were local guards that always fell asleep, 1044 00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:34.039 like every night when they were supposed to be gardeners. 1045 00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:36.960 But we were in the house and I remember it 1046 00:53:37.079 --> 00:53:41.840 was coming up on Halloween and the American Club was 1047 00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:45.320 going to have a Halloween party. They threw some righteous parties. 1048 00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:48.760 They were always, you know, having these theme parties all 1049 00:53:48.760 --> 00:53:50.599 the time because there's nothing else to do over there. 1050 00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:53.360 And we were lucky enough to have access to the 1051 00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:56.760 American Club. And since we were going to this Halloween party, 1052 00:53:56.800 --> 00:53:59.480 we had picked up some supplies and we're making some 1053 00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:02.840 costume and I had actually had my medic bag opened 1054 00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:05.039 up on my bed in the room and had some 1055 00:54:05.159 --> 00:54:07.199 gaus laid out and stuff, because we were making some 1056 00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:10.159 costumes out of plaster casting, because we could get that 1057 00:54:10.280 --> 00:54:13.159 on the local economy and it was easy to mold 1058 00:54:13.239 --> 00:54:16.199 and make costumes with and then all of a sudden, 1059 00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:18.559 I heard a big slam that sounded like somebody dropped 1060 00:54:18.559 --> 00:54:20.400 his stack of lumber on a tile floor. 1061 00:54:21.079 --> 00:54:24.840 And then it was followed by screaming. So I stepped 1062 00:54:24.840 --> 00:54:25.400 out into the. 1063 00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:29.119 Hallway, and you know, the guy came out of the 1064 00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:31.119 room down the hall with his hand what was left 1065 00:54:31.159 --> 00:54:33.639 of it, and it was squirting blood about ten feet 1066 00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:34.639 hitting me in the chest. 1067 00:54:35.320 --> 00:54:38.159 And you know, so I stepped back in my room. 1068 00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:39.920 I grabbed the gauze and put it on his hand 1069 00:54:40.360 --> 00:54:41.440 and kind of wrapped it up. 1070 00:54:41.519 --> 00:54:44.039 But what had happened is he he had been. 1071 00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:46.920 On the first rotation of this and then came back 1072 00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:51.079 into the second rotation on this Operation Salam operation. So 1073 00:54:51.519 --> 00:54:55.320 this was to be his second six month rotation. And 1074 00:54:55.360 --> 00:54:58.079 he was an engineer, and he had gotten used to 1075 00:54:58.239 --> 00:55:02.159 defusing these mines, and you know, had gotten overly curious 1076 00:55:02.199 --> 00:55:07.880 about one of the the fuses for a landmark or 1077 00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:11.159 excuse me, a tank mine anti tank mine, And in 1078 00:55:11.199 --> 00:55:15.000 the process he had taken a leatherman and scratched a 1079 00:55:15.039 --> 00:55:19.119 piece of the igniter and it exploded and tore his 1080 00:55:19.159 --> 00:55:24.599 hand off, and at the same time it ripped a 1081 00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:27.000 piece of the leatherman off, you know, the whole punch 1082 00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:29.679 piece which he was using to kind of dig into it, 1083 00:55:30.039 --> 00:55:32.760 and it went through the neck of his roommate. 1084 00:55:33.400 --> 00:55:37.639 And luckily his roommate you know, wasn't seriously injured. We 1085 00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:38.199 didn't know that. 1086 00:55:38.199 --> 00:55:40.480 At the time because you know, there was blood and 1087 00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:43.800 a lot of stuff everywhere. But you know, the the 1088 00:55:44.559 --> 00:55:47.360 guy that lost his hands, Jeff Horton, you know, we 1089 00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:50.239 treated him, packaged him up, and then I handed him 1090 00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:53.039 off to the other medic who transported him to the hospital. 1091 00:55:53.800 --> 00:55:56.760 And I started checking out the guy who had the 1092 00:55:56.800 --> 00:55:59.719 neck injury, which turned out to be you know, perfectly benign. 1093 00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:03.159 I mean, luckily for him, it was about an inch 1094 00:56:03.639 --> 00:56:06.000 off to the outside and missed his karate and his 1095 00:56:06.039 --> 00:56:10.320 juggler vein. But you know, so that was kind of 1096 00:56:10.519 --> 00:56:14.639 another exciting moment in the Operation Salab Tour. 1097 00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:18.960 This is also kind of like for you, I guess, 1098 00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:22.320 your real first taste of like the SF mission. 1099 00:56:23.360 --> 00:56:23.719 Yeah. 1100 00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:28.719 I had gone on one other like short mission to 1101 00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:31.920 the to the Gulf in bob Rain as a as 1102 00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:34.760 a Medican a Persian speaker. I had gotten attached to 1103 00:56:35.440 --> 00:56:38.719 like a group of seals. They were doing this mission 1104 00:56:38.760 --> 00:56:41.039 at the time called Prime Chance, where they were seizing 1105 00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:45.480 Iranian boats that were cruising through the Straight of Horn moves. 1106 00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:47.400 I didn't really do much there, but you know, it 1107 00:56:47.480 --> 00:56:49.000 was cool to go along and be there for a 1108 00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:52.039 few weeks, hang out with the seals and you know, 1109 00:56:52.119 --> 00:56:55.360 ride the helicopters. But for the most part it was 1110 00:56:55.960 --> 00:56:59.639 not as sf a mission as this one in the 1111 00:56:59.719 --> 00:57:04.119 Shower Pakistan. It was full on UW right with an 1112 00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:04.920 interesting twist. 1113 00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:07.920 Yeah, and how what was sort of your perception of 1114 00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:10.800 how that UW campaign was going on at that time. 1115 00:57:11.960 --> 00:57:14.760 Did you have some inkling that the Soviets were on 1116 00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:17.159 the brink of defeat or was it still very uncertain? 1117 00:57:18.280 --> 00:57:21.199 I think it was. It was not quite fifty to 1118 00:57:21.239 --> 00:57:23.760 fifty at that point. I think everybody was fairly sure 1119 00:57:23.800 --> 00:57:25.960 that they were on a downward spiral. I don't think 1120 00:57:25.960 --> 00:57:30.920 anybody knew exactly, you know, to what degree, but I 1121 00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:34.000 think everybody was fairly certain that the efforts that were 1122 00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:38.840 being directed against the Soviets were having a pretty intense effect, 1123 00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:41.000 and that it was, you know, it was going to 1124 00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:44.679 take its toll eventually. It was some unique insight into 1125 00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:48.519 Afghanistan in the future. I realized when we were on 1126 00:57:48.559 --> 00:57:50.840 that trip that we were going to have problems with 1127 00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:57.239 Afghanistan and Pakistan down the road repeatedly on a serious level. 1128 00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:00.199 We had a guy at one point who was probably 1129 00:58:00.199 --> 00:58:05.079 our best student that as one of the d mining individuals. 1130 00:58:05.079 --> 00:58:07.559 And then we had some other people in the same 1131 00:58:07.639 --> 00:58:11.280 class come to us and say, hey, this guy's you know, 1132 00:58:11.639 --> 00:58:15.440 he's not muja Hadeen. He's a Communist sympathizer. And we're like, whoa, 1133 00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:17.960 So wait a second. And this guy was always getting 1134 00:58:18.039 --> 00:58:22.039 with us. We would have you know, extra training with him, 1135 00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:24.000 like on all the breaks. He had all these questions 1136 00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:26.320 about tactics and stuff, and you know, and then we 1137 00:58:26.360 --> 00:58:29.119 had no reason to not talk to him and answer 1138 00:58:29.159 --> 00:58:31.880 his questions and and kind of give him some information. 1139 00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:35.400 But he was a serious student. But these guys came 1140 00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:38.760 to us and with this uh, you know, rumor that 1141 00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:42.079 he was Communist supportive and he was one of the 1142 00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:44.639 bad guys. And then you know, it went back and 1143 00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:46.960 forth and they finally decided that, hey, we can't prove 1144 00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:50.119 that he's a bad guy. And and there was a 1145 00:58:50.119 --> 00:58:53.519 lot of consideration that it was just a political or 1146 00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:56.199 tribal dispute because they were from one tribe. He was 1147 00:58:56.199 --> 00:59:00.440 from another tribe and that and what we saw it 1148 00:59:00.519 --> 00:59:05.239 was the guys from the the Poshtune, you know, click 1149 00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:08.119 that was in the camp that came against him. And 1150 00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:10.039 he was a Farsi speaker, which is one of the 1151 00:59:10.039 --> 00:59:13.360 reasons I had interaction with him. But so they wound 1152 00:59:13.480 --> 00:59:15.360 up kind of booting him out of the camp. They 1153 00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:18.159 wouldn't let him continue because there was controversy around him. 1154 00:59:18.360 --> 00:59:20.880 And the really interesting thing about it was years later, 1155 00:59:21.199 --> 00:59:25.119 after nine to eleven, during some other operations, I was 1156 00:59:25.159 --> 00:59:28.800 reviewing and looking at some footage and I saw this 1157 00:59:28.920 --> 00:59:32.000 guy play his day as one of the Taliban Taliban 1158 00:59:32.360 --> 00:59:35.280 soldiers that have been captured. So I don't know if 1159 00:59:35.880 --> 00:59:39.239 that whole incident like built up into kind of turning him, 1160 00:59:39.519 --> 00:59:41.760 because he seemed pretty pro American when we were working 1161 00:59:41.800 --> 00:59:44.840 with him. But obviously when you're dealing with indigenous people 1162 00:59:45.400 --> 00:59:48.679 and forces, you know, there's a huge level of deception, 1163 00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:52.960 especially when you're working with Middle Easterners and and as Americans, 1164 00:59:53.119 --> 00:59:55.960 people don't really understand that that that their whole purpose 1165 00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:58.800 in life, based on the religion and the Koran, is 1166 00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:02.119 to deceive to the utmost ability in order to kill 1167 01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:05.480 the enemy, and so you know, it's one of those 1168 01:00:05.480 --> 01:00:09.320 interesting things like was he, you know, one of the 1169 01:00:09.320 --> 01:00:11.239 guys that was kind of against us, just using us 1170 01:00:11.239 --> 01:00:15.199 for our information or did some of that build up 1171 01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:18.360 into kind of influencing him to become one of the 1172 01:00:18.400 --> 01:00:19.239 Taliban later? 1173 01:00:20.480 --> 01:00:23.440 And when you got home from this, you got put 1174 01:00:23.480 --> 01:00:25.440 on a special projects team, right. 1175 01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:29.559 Yeah, So when I got back, I actually interviewed and 1176 01:00:29.559 --> 01:00:32.559 and the one thing I know, all the groups have 1177 01:00:32.719 --> 01:00:35.400 their own special projects sections, but when I was in 1178 01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:40.880 fifth Group, they had three main special projects teams, and 1179 01:00:41.039 --> 01:00:44.559 that was before the move up to Campbell. They had 1180 01:00:44.599 --> 01:00:47.039 one that was known as Grizzly Hitch that that did 1181 01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:50.400 a particular mission. Then there was another one that was 1182 01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:55.199 a combined team that was in second Italian, and then 1183 01:00:55.480 --> 01:01:00.800 there was an additional one that was also assigned a 1184 01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:05.880 second itttalion. And those three odas that were special projects 1185 01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:09.360 moved up to Fort Campbell and then the Grizzly Hitch 1186 01:01:09.360 --> 01:01:13.400 guys stayed behind to form third Group. And so when 1187 01:01:13.400 --> 01:01:19.280 I got back from from Pakistan, that team approached me 1188 01:01:20.119 --> 01:01:21.920 and asked me, Hey, would I be interested in I 1189 01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:25.639 was like, yeah, absolutely. They were especially interested in my 1190 01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:29.639 Persian Farsi skills. They needed a medic and then also 1191 01:01:31.119 --> 01:01:34.719 I had just had that rotation and working with the Afghans, 1192 01:01:34.719 --> 01:01:37.960 and so it kind of aligned with some interests that 1193 01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:41.159 they had. So they interviewed me and I got selected 1194 01:01:41.199 --> 01:01:43.400 and then I was part of that special project team 1195 01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:44.280 for a while. 1196 01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:48.239 What you know, as far as what you're able to say, 1197 01:01:48.280 --> 01:01:51.280 I mean, what was a special project's ODA back in 1198 01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:52.079 those days? 1199 01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:55.480 So back in those days, it was an ODA that 1200 01:01:55.840 --> 01:02:00.559 was you know, it belonged on paper to fifth Group, 1201 01:02:00.920 --> 01:02:06.320 but it answered for tactical control and operational control to 1202 01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:11.079 another organization. And it you know, depending on which special 1203 01:02:11.119 --> 01:02:14.400 project it was, it can vary on exactly who they 1204 01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:17.679 came under. Some of them I think came under so 1205 01:02:17.679 --> 01:02:21.800 so calm uh, you know, it just depends on how 1206 01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:23.000 they were aligned. 1207 01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:28.199 And what what did you guys end up doing. You 1208 01:02:28.199 --> 01:02:30.880 said you were oriented towards the aft Pack region. 1209 01:02:30.920 --> 01:02:35.360 Again, so the the mission was to to kind of 1210 01:02:35.400 --> 01:02:38.920 supplement and work with some other government agencies to support 1211 01:02:38.960 --> 01:02:39.920 that overall mission. 1212 01:02:42.039 --> 01:02:44.960 Was this uh part of like the the Stinger missiles 1213 01:02:45.320 --> 01:02:46.480 and training up those guys. 1214 01:02:46.599 --> 01:02:48.920 Yes, yeah, yes, As a matter of fact, one of 1215 01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:51.599 the things I did once I got to that team 1216 01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:54.599 is I went and became Stiger missile qualified. 1217 01:02:56.840 --> 01:03:00.719 We had Bass Basle on the show talking about that 1218 01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:02.760 a ways back. You did you know him? 1219 01:03:03.920 --> 01:03:05.719 I think I know who he is. I don't personally 1220 01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:06.119 know him. 1221 01:03:06.599 --> 01:03:09.840 He would have been a sad guy, ground branch guy 1222 01:03:09.880 --> 01:03:14.320 at the time. Him and another guy, I believe they 1223 01:03:14.360 --> 01:03:17.239 were like they set up a lot of the Stinger 1224 01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:19.239 missile training in Pakistan. 1225 01:03:19.719 --> 01:03:23.440 Right, Yeah, yeah, it was. It was an interesting thing. 1226 01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:26.599 And then I really wasn't on there too long before 1227 01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:31.920 the Gulf War kicked off, and at the time it 1228 01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:34.639 was kind of interesting because all of those three teams 1229 01:03:34.679 --> 01:03:38.079 were assigned to second Battalion of fifth Group, and then 1230 01:03:38.360 --> 01:03:42.360 you know, first Battalion moved up there. First second Battalion came, 1231 01:03:42.760 --> 01:03:46.159 and then they had to form third Battalion with all 1232 01:03:46.199 --> 01:03:48.639 the you know, all kinds of leftover guys, a lot 1233 01:03:48.639 --> 01:03:51.199 of brand new guys, and so all that was really 1234 01:03:51.239 --> 01:03:53.320 just kind of standing up when I got back from 1235 01:03:53.400 --> 01:03:59.039 the Pakistan mission and second Battalion had all three had 1236 01:03:59.079 --> 01:04:02.239 three o DA's were actually assigned to them on paper, 1237 01:04:02.280 --> 01:04:06.639 but were operating as special projects. And so during that time, 1238 01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:10.519 the one special project that I went to work for 1239 01:04:11.679 --> 01:04:14.320 had worked with the command, and they decided to move 1240 01:04:14.960 --> 01:04:17.800 on paper over to third Battalion so that they would 1241 01:04:17.880 --> 01:04:24.239 have this other operational detachment. And then the Golf War 1242 01:04:24.360 --> 01:04:27.719 kicked off and we were you know, there was a 1243 01:04:27.719 --> 01:04:30.840 big discussion and everybody took a vote on hey, you know, 1244 01:04:31.119 --> 01:04:33.320 do we want to continue working on the project or 1245 01:04:33.360 --> 01:04:36.639 do we want to go and deploy for the war. 1246 01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:39.559 You know, at the time, it was pretty certain right 1247 01:04:39.639 --> 01:04:41.000 off the bat that there was going to be a war. 1248 01:04:41.079 --> 01:04:44.920 There was the build up was happening, and everybody on 1249 01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:46.840 the team voted to go to war. You know, that 1250 01:04:46.920 --> 01:04:50.920 was the that was the unanimous thing. The project was cool, 1251 01:04:51.159 --> 01:04:53.199 a lot of cool stuff was happening, and guys were 1252 01:04:53.199 --> 01:04:55.559 doing things, but you know, this was a. 1253 01:04:55.440 --> 01:04:58.000 Straight up all out war. Everybody wanted to do it. 1254 01:04:58.639 --> 01:05:04.920 And so we deployed with third Battalion, uh, you know, 1255 01:05:05.480 --> 01:05:08.000 as just one of the regular odias. But as right 1256 01:05:08.039 --> 01:05:10.679 before we deployed, they split up our team a little 1257 01:05:10.679 --> 01:05:12.880 bit because we had all these senior guys that had 1258 01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:16.079 a lot of experience, and so they split up some guys. 1259 01:05:16.159 --> 01:05:18.800 I was the newest guy, you know, assigned to the team, 1260 01:05:19.039 --> 01:05:20.840 so I was one of the first guys to get 1261 01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:24.159 plucked and sent to this brand new ODA where I 1262 01:05:24.199 --> 01:05:28.840 didn't know anybody, and and the majority of the guys 1263 01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:32.719 were brand new. They had maybe less than six months 1264 01:05:32.760 --> 01:05:35.239 team time for the most part. And then they had 1265 01:05:35.239 --> 01:05:38.920 a few guys that had you know, come from different areas, 1266 01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:41.639 you know, and you know how it is anytime you 1267 01:05:41.719 --> 01:05:44.599 form a new group, they always send their best people. 1268 01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:48.199 So you know, nobody wants to give up their greatest guys. 1269 01:05:48.760 --> 01:05:51.079 So a couple of the guys, especially like the team 1270 01:05:51.079 --> 01:05:53.800 starten I had at the time, was not impressive and 1271 01:05:53.880 --> 01:05:57.039 I had come from having some really great team sergeants, 1272 01:05:57.039 --> 01:06:01.079 so it stood out pretty pretty heavily. And so here 1273 01:06:01.119 --> 01:06:03.800 I was going to war with this kind of new 1274 01:06:03.840 --> 01:06:09.000 team and uh, you know, not not very impressive team sergeant. 1275 01:06:10.480 --> 01:06:11.440 It wasn't a good feeling. 1276 01:06:12.719 --> 01:06:15.719 But you guys got deployed for nine months for the 1277 01:06:15.800 --> 01:06:16.719 Gulf War, right. 1278 01:06:17.280 --> 01:06:20.159 Yeah, I was over there for nine months. I actually stayed. 1279 01:06:20.440 --> 01:06:23.119 The team was there I think for eight I stayed 1280 01:06:23.119 --> 01:06:25.400 an extra month because they needed a volunteer to stay 1281 01:06:25.719 --> 01:06:28.079 and do some stuff, and at the time, you know, 1282 01:06:28.599 --> 01:06:30.960 I had nothing better to do, so so I stayed. 1283 01:06:31.039 --> 01:06:34.639 And you you guys were working with the Saudis and 1284 01:06:34.760 --> 01:06:37.360 there I recalled there's a name for this, I can't 1285 01:06:37.400 --> 01:06:40.880 remember it, but it was the fifth group augmentation teams 1286 01:06:40.880 --> 01:06:44.320 with the different Arab armies and the coalition. Do you recall. 1287 01:06:44.480 --> 01:06:46.840 Yeah, they were called CAST teams Close air support teams. 1288 01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:51.320 Yeah, thank you, So you tell us about it. 1289 01:06:51.400 --> 01:06:54.800 We were we were attached to the Saudis and we 1290 01:06:54.800 --> 01:06:57.760 were at the Triborder area in an area called Hafer 1291 01:06:57.800 --> 01:07:01.320 Alba Team, which was this big dry river or dry 1292 01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:05.400 waddy bed that was considered to be a potential high 1293 01:07:05.440 --> 01:07:09.000 avenue for a counter invasion or for an attack from 1294 01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:10.840 the Iraqis with tanks. 1295 01:07:12.719 --> 01:07:15.159 And so what were you doing out there for that 1296 01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:16.559 eight nine months? 1297 01:07:17.159 --> 01:07:21.360 So initially we were training the Saudis, which were less 1298 01:07:21.400 --> 01:07:26.840 than highly motivated. They were not your dynamic soldiers at all, 1299 01:07:27.199 --> 01:07:30.199 but you know, we were trying to convince them and 1300 01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:35.039 build rapport with them. It was a classic sf UW 1301 01:07:35.320 --> 01:07:37.280 mission in that regard because we had to kind of 1302 01:07:37.639 --> 01:07:41.280 win them over, train them to try to get them 1303 01:07:41.360 --> 01:07:44.079 up to a standard where things would be okay. 1304 01:07:44.119 --> 01:07:45.840 But at the time we also received a. 1305 01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:49.119 Couple of cross border reconnaissance missions and a couple other 1306 01:07:49.199 --> 01:07:52.719 taskings to do some things along the border, a couple 1307 01:07:52.760 --> 01:07:57.719 of things to serve as kind of a quick reaction 1308 01:07:57.800 --> 01:08:02.880 and reinforcement force, especially you know, during a couple of 1309 01:08:02.760 --> 01:08:06.719 the battle small battles that happened, so you know, we 1310 01:08:06.719 --> 01:08:09.360 we were kind of just jacks of all trade for 1311 01:08:09.400 --> 01:08:11.280 the most part. They're really trying to figure out what 1312 01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:13.440 to do with this, I think for the most part. 1313 01:08:13.480 --> 01:08:15.559 But but generally we were just kind of keeping the 1314 01:08:15.599 --> 01:08:19.560 saudiast Company kind of trying to keep them comfortable and 1315 01:08:19.800 --> 01:08:23.760 keep them involved in the the you know, the war, 1316 01:08:23.920 --> 01:08:24.880 so they didn't give up. 1317 01:08:25.479 --> 01:08:28.399 And interesting enough though, is you know we we were 1318 01:08:28.520 --> 01:08:28.960 up there. 1319 01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:31.960 With them, and then we packed up a couple times 1320 01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:35.960 to go out and pull reconnaissance at night on this 1321 01:08:35.960 --> 01:08:38.800 this Wadi Albatine to make sure there wasn't an invasion 1322 01:08:38.880 --> 01:08:43.439 or a counter invasion. And right before we received another 1323 01:08:43.560 --> 01:08:45.199 order to do it, it was probably about the fourth 1324 01:08:45.239 --> 01:08:47.680 time we'd done this to load up and go observe 1325 01:08:48.720 --> 01:08:51.479 and it was just us the team, and it was 1326 01:08:51.520 --> 01:08:54.600 actually the night that the air war took off. And 1327 01:08:54.640 --> 01:08:57.760 while we were loading our vehicle, you know, kind of 1328 01:08:57.840 --> 01:09:00.520 middle of the night, we're listening to the bb on 1329 01:09:00.640 --> 01:09:04.720 We had these little Toyota truck technical vehicles that we 1330 01:09:04.760 --> 01:09:08.159 had welded, uh you know, stands in the back for 1331 01:09:08.199 --> 01:09:11.960 fifty cows and Mark nineteen's mainly fifty cows. And these 1332 01:09:11.960 --> 01:09:15.199 were our vehicles. We we didn't really have the dumbb's 1333 01:09:15.279 --> 01:09:19.000 or gmbs then. And uh so we were loading up 1334 01:09:19.039 --> 01:09:24.920 this this makeshift technical truck to head out and listening 1335 01:09:24.920 --> 01:09:27.600 to the BBC on the radio, and then all of 1336 01:09:27.640 --> 01:09:32.279 a sudden we heard the announcement on the radio and 1337 01:09:32.279 --> 01:09:34.960 and you know, there was like a news break and 1338 01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:38.159 then we we had the planes fly like right over 1339 01:09:38.199 --> 01:09:42.600 it's low, real fast like. And right after that, the 1340 01:09:42.680 --> 01:09:46.479 lady on the radio said, and the invasion of Kuwait 1341 01:09:46.600 --> 01:09:48.920 has begun. You know, we're like, holy crap. And then 1342 01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:52.199 the whole sky lit up across the horizons. So we 1343 01:09:52.239 --> 01:09:54.640 threw our stuff on there headed up there to get 1344 01:09:54.680 --> 01:09:57.159 ready to see what kind of counter attack was going 1345 01:09:57.239 --> 01:09:59.880 to happen. And you know, we were we were only 1346 01:10:00.039 --> 01:10:04.520 a little bit at our company headquarters, and so we 1347 01:10:04.560 --> 01:10:07.319 started heading up that way. We couldn't we couldn't get 1348 01:10:07.319 --> 01:10:09.840 on the road because all of the Saudis had jumped 1349 01:10:09.840 --> 01:10:14.680 in their tracked vehicles and were headed back towards you know, 1350 01:10:14.760 --> 01:10:17.840 back towards us, running from the border, and so we 1351 01:10:17.880 --> 01:10:20.159 had to get off the road, drive across get a position, 1352 01:10:20.920 --> 01:10:23.800 and they they had the highway blocked up, all the 1353 01:10:23.880 --> 01:10:27.479 lights on u Some of them had these attents, you know, 1354 01:10:27.520 --> 01:10:30.600 that that attached to their track vehicles, and they just 1355 01:10:30.680 --> 01:10:32.640 like jumped in the vehicle and drove off and drugged 1356 01:10:32.680 --> 01:10:35.039 the tents off the back of them. And so we 1357 01:10:35.079 --> 01:10:38.039 stayed up there all night waiting for a counter attack 1358 01:10:38.560 --> 01:10:41.039 from the Iraqis, but nothing ever happened. And then the 1359 01:10:41.079 --> 01:10:44.800 next day we you know, started heading back and we 1360 01:10:44.800 --> 01:10:47.800 we went across the lines to kind of survey where 1361 01:10:47.840 --> 01:10:50.159 the Saudi troops had been that we were working with. 1362 01:10:50.479 --> 01:10:53.479 They were all gone. They had all fled back behind 1363 01:10:53.560 --> 01:10:55.399 our company. You know. 1364 01:10:55.439 --> 01:10:58.720 We we saw all their equipment left, you know, around 1365 01:10:58.720 --> 01:11:01.720 through there. There was like one of them left, like 1366 01:11:01.760 --> 01:11:05.000 a whole supply whatever their supply company was. 1367 01:11:05.039 --> 01:11:06.319 So there was all this equipment there. 1368 01:11:06.319 --> 01:11:08.479 We were up there, you know, k Martin threw it 1369 01:11:08.520 --> 01:11:11.760 picking out some new gear, and eventually we saw one 1370 01:11:11.800 --> 01:11:13.920 of their officers who had been sent up there to 1371 01:11:14.039 --> 01:11:17.600 survey the area to find out, you know, kind of 1372 01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:19.520 what was happening. And we saw We're like, hey, what's 1373 01:11:19.560 --> 01:11:22.439 going on, you know, and we're like, hey, the war started. 1374 01:11:22.720 --> 01:11:24.600 And he's all he could do was shake his head. 1375 01:11:24.600 --> 01:11:27.560 He was miserable, and he's like, oh, no good, no good. 1376 01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:29.399 We're like, no, this is good. We're gonna be done. 1377 01:11:29.399 --> 01:11:31.720 We're gonna be out of here soon. He was distraught, 1378 01:11:31.800 --> 01:11:33.520 you know, he was about to have a nervous breakdown. 1379 01:11:34.079 --> 01:11:37.039 But those guys all fled to the rear and left 1380 01:11:37.119 --> 01:11:40.960 us up there, you know, likeit nine guys to defend 1381 01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:41.560 the whole boarder. 1382 01:11:43.479 --> 01:11:45.880 Were you ever able to rally those guys and get 1383 01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:46.960 them back up on position. 1384 01:11:47.680 --> 01:11:50.039 They came back like right after that. The next day. 1385 01:11:50.439 --> 01:11:52.840 They you know, we were able to convince him to 1386 01:11:53.439 --> 01:11:57.239 come back up and you know, set everything back up again. 1387 01:11:58.479 --> 01:12:00.159 I think just because. 1388 01:11:59.840 --> 01:12:02.399 They they weren't clued into the air attack, and I 1389 01:12:02.439 --> 01:12:04.520 think initially when it happened, they weren't sure they were 1390 01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:07.159 our planes. We had a lot of issues with them 1391 01:12:07.159 --> 01:12:09.279 the whole time we're along the border, especially once the 1392 01:12:09.439 --> 01:12:13.359 air war started, like right after that, because you know, 1393 01:12:13.439 --> 01:12:17.439 they had anti aircraft tracks that they were using, and 1394 01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:19.880 sometimes they would lock onto the A tens with them, 1395 01:12:19.920 --> 01:12:22.600 and you know, we were telling them, hey, don't do that, 1396 01:12:22.760 --> 01:12:26.039 because we own the air. Those are our guys. Don't 1397 01:12:26.119 --> 01:12:29.840 point your guns at the eightens and lock on to them. 1398 01:12:29.840 --> 01:12:32.640 And at one point we had one of their tracks 1399 01:12:32.680 --> 01:12:35.720 that locked onto one of the A tens and that 1400 01:12:35.840 --> 01:12:38.640 was flying along the border. The A ten turned and 1401 01:12:38.720 --> 01:12:42.439 lit him up and just like shredded that track. The 1402 01:12:43.159 --> 01:12:45.840 Saudi that was on the gun got like ripped in half. 1403 01:12:46.960 --> 01:12:48.840 You know, there was nothing we could do to save him. 1404 01:12:48.960 --> 01:12:51.399 He was tore up because he and it was all 1405 01:12:51.439 --> 01:12:54.479 because they had turned their gun and locked onto them 1406 01:12:54.520 --> 01:12:58.159 after being repeatedly told several times and hey don't do that. 1407 01:12:58.920 --> 01:13:02.399 But you know, they just didn't have a really good 1408 01:13:02.479 --> 01:13:05.479 basic understanding of how it was all going to work. 1409 01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:09.720 They were not motivated to be there. Their whole concept was, hey, 1410 01:13:09.880 --> 01:13:11.000 you know, you guys will fight the. 1411 01:13:10.960 --> 01:13:13.439 War for us. We're just up here getting paid. 1412 01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:17.840 So it was kind of sad really to try to 1413 01:13:17.880 --> 01:13:22.560 get them motivated to you know, joined in on all 1414 01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:23.960 the things that needed to happen. 1415 01:13:24.960 --> 01:13:28.600 So you guys were not able to like be one 1416 01:13:28.640 --> 01:13:31.119 are the prongs going into a raq with the Saudi 1417 01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:31.720 National Gual. 1418 01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:37.079 Actually, actually we were really which is probably the worst part, 1419 01:13:37.159 --> 01:13:40.760 is this same group of folks. I mean, we nurtured 1420 01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:43.399 them for months and finally got them to where they 1421 01:13:43.399 --> 01:13:47.159 were feeling a little more motivated. And then whenever we 1422 01:13:47.239 --> 01:13:50.720 launched the ground invasion, we headed out with these guys 1423 01:13:51.279 --> 01:13:54.520 and went to breach the minefield. The interesting part about 1424 01:13:54.520 --> 01:13:56.560 it is, and I got a great picture of this somewhere, 1425 01:13:56.800 --> 01:13:59.399 is when it came time to breach the minefield, it 1426 01:13:59.479 --> 01:14:02.479 was just, you know, it was in the early evening 1427 01:14:02.560 --> 01:14:05.560 and it was prayer time. They actually stopped right before 1428 01:14:05.560 --> 01:14:08.439 the minefield and got out their rugs and started praying, 1429 01:14:08.920 --> 01:14:11.680 and then we got we got some mortar fire, luckily 1430 01:14:11.680 --> 01:14:14.840 not too close while these guys were praying, but they 1431 01:14:14.840 --> 01:14:16.640 were going to continue praying. We had to get out 1432 01:14:16.640 --> 01:14:18.800 and actually round them up and say, hey, listen, you 1433 01:14:18.840 --> 01:14:19.800 know you can pray later. 1434 01:14:20.279 --> 01:14:22.399 We need to we need to keep moving through the minefield. 1435 01:14:23.119 --> 01:14:25.560 And so once we moved through the minefield, we had 1436 01:14:25.600 --> 01:14:29.920 an objective to attack the former like Kuwaiti Base. I 1437 01:14:29.920 --> 01:14:31.560 don't remember the name of it off the top of 1438 01:14:31.600 --> 01:14:34.479 my head, but it had been overtaken by the Iraqis 1439 01:14:34.520 --> 01:14:37.600 and now it was held by Iraqi soldiers and it 1440 01:14:37.720 --> 01:14:40.560 was on the way to Kuwait City. So we arrived 1441 01:14:40.600 --> 01:14:43.960 there with the Saudis just before dark, and being the 1442 01:14:45.039 --> 01:14:48.479 motivated guys that they were, they all stopped and said, hey, 1443 01:14:48.479 --> 01:14:50.880 it's dark, we're not going to go in. Well, we 1444 01:14:50.960 --> 01:14:54.159 had a battalion commander at the time and a couple 1445 01:14:54.239 --> 01:14:56.640 of his staff guys that decided they were going to 1446 01:14:57.000 --> 01:14:59.800 you know, inspire the Saudis and show them how it's done. 1447 01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:04.840 So they went into the compound the complex and got 1448 01:15:04.840 --> 01:15:09.319 pinned down and then my team received the you know, 1449 01:15:09.359 --> 01:15:11.880 the request to go in and help them out. So 1450 01:15:12.359 --> 01:15:15.199 we by this time we had traded our technical vehicles 1451 01:15:15.199 --> 01:15:19.119 in and we had in one, one, three anti personnel carriers, 1452 01:15:19.159 --> 01:15:21.960 so we had armored vehicles and we had three guys 1453 01:15:22.000 --> 01:15:22.640 to a vehicle. 1454 01:15:23.359 --> 01:15:25.920 We had like all the armament and tons of stuff. 1455 01:15:25.960 --> 01:15:28.159 I mean, I remember having I think we had three 1456 01:15:28.199 --> 01:15:34.199 Stinger missiles per vehicle. We had probably eight eighty fours, 1457 01:15:34.760 --> 01:15:37.880 a couple of boxes of grenades, all the ammo we 1458 01:15:37.880 --> 01:15:40.800 could carry, and that was for each vehicle. 1459 01:15:41.279 --> 01:15:42.520 Two of them had fifty cows. 1460 01:15:42.560 --> 01:15:44.520 One of them had a mark nineteen on it, so 1461 01:15:44.560 --> 01:15:47.640 we were gunned up pretty good, but you know, there 1462 01:15:47.720 --> 01:15:49.720 was still only nine of us to go in there 1463 01:15:50.239 --> 01:15:53.399 and you know, try to try to free them out of. 1464 01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:54.920 Being pinned down inside the city. 1465 01:15:54.960 --> 01:15:57.920 So we we rammed the gate with the one one three, 1466 01:15:58.039 --> 01:16:01.239 went in, you know, got to the air and got 1467 01:16:01.279 --> 01:16:04.039 into a firefight with some folks that then ran into 1468 01:16:04.039 --> 01:16:07.119 a mosque. And at the time, I was on the 1469 01:16:07.119 --> 01:16:10.720 fifty Cow because I was one of the few guys 1470 01:16:10.720 --> 01:16:13.039 that knew how to operate the fifty Cow, and each 1471 01:16:13.119 --> 01:16:16.800 vehicle had a como guy or somebody operating the radio 1472 01:16:16.840 --> 01:16:20.039 that could call casts, and then somebody that was driving it, 1473 01:16:20.119 --> 01:16:21.960 and so you know, I had a como guy in 1474 01:16:22.000 --> 01:16:24.840 my vehicle. I was the gunner as the medic at 1475 01:16:24.840 --> 01:16:30.199 the time, and then our eighteen Bravo at the time 1476 01:16:30.239 --> 01:16:32.239 had been in Ranger Battalion and he was driving the 1477 01:16:32.319 --> 01:16:34.880 N one one three, So that was kind of the 1478 01:16:34.920 --> 01:16:38.439 setup for all three vehicles. And so we moved in 1479 01:16:38.560 --> 01:16:43.199 and shot up this one building and kind. 1480 01:16:43.079 --> 01:16:45.079 Of ripped through the walls with the fifty Cow. 1481 01:16:45.640 --> 01:16:49.319 After a you know, good exchange with him, we had 1482 01:16:49.359 --> 01:16:52.239 a big number of guys surrendered to us. They came 1483 01:16:52.279 --> 01:16:55.359 out waving a bed sheet in a line, and uh, 1484 01:16:55.399 --> 01:16:57.800 you know, more guys than nine guys could handle. 1485 01:16:57.800 --> 01:16:57.960 We had. 1486 01:16:58.000 --> 01:17:00.840 There were hundreds of them, and so we we got 1487 01:17:00.840 --> 01:17:04.399 that figured out and turned them over to somebody else, 1488 01:17:05.079 --> 01:17:08.399 and then from there we received orders to move on 1489 01:17:08.479 --> 01:17:12.239 in towards Kuwait City. Stopped on the outside outskirts of 1490 01:17:12.319 --> 01:17:16.560 Kuwait City for the night, and then rallied into the 1491 01:17:16.560 --> 01:17:18.359 evasion and the operations in the city. 1492 01:17:18.399 --> 01:17:22.039 After that, Wow, what was it like going into the city. 1493 01:17:23.119 --> 01:17:26.199 Always madness, you know, because the road had been just 1494 01:17:26.319 --> 01:17:29.880 annihilated with all the tanks, all the vehicles that were 1495 01:17:29.880 --> 01:17:33.359 trying to flee the city. The atens and the other 1496 01:17:33.399 --> 01:17:36.319 aircraft had just wiped them out and they were you know, 1497 01:17:36.479 --> 01:17:42.640 clogged up and just you know, like just devastated. And 1498 01:17:42.680 --> 01:17:45.399 we saw several of them along the way that we 1499 01:17:45.600 --> 01:17:47.600 ran into tanks and some of their tanks had been 1500 01:17:48.159 --> 01:17:50.960 like buried into position. I'm not sure why they did that, 1501 01:17:51.079 --> 01:17:54.600 but they decided to dig these trenches put the tank 1502 01:17:54.640 --> 01:17:57.359 in it, and then you know, they were stuck inside 1503 01:17:57.399 --> 01:18:01.479 these little positions. And so we you know, as we 1504 01:18:01.640 --> 01:18:04.800 drove through, we called the a tens on them and 1505 01:18:05.119 --> 01:18:07.560 a couple of fast movers and then lit them up 1506 01:18:07.560 --> 01:18:10.119 with the guns as we went by them, and I 1507 01:18:10.159 --> 01:18:13.479 mean just devastated them sore. There was just like carnage 1508 01:18:13.520 --> 01:18:15.439 with all the tanks and the you know a lot 1509 01:18:15.479 --> 01:18:18.079 of the bodies and everything as we moved through, especially 1510 01:18:18.159 --> 01:18:18.840 into the city. 1511 01:18:19.680 --> 01:18:23.399 Yeah, I think with the with the burying of the equipment, 1512 01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:27.000 I think that might have been some sort of miscommunication 1513 01:18:27.199 --> 01:18:30.399 or something with army syops that they it was supposed 1514 01:18:30.399 --> 01:18:32.439 to be like lay down your arms, but the way 1515 01:18:32.479 --> 01:18:35.399 it transmitted was like bury bury your arms. It was 1516 01:18:35.439 --> 01:18:36.800 something something similar to that. 1517 01:18:37.560 --> 01:18:39.520 Yeah, I have a lot of the I collected some 1518 01:18:39.560 --> 01:18:43.520 of the little leaflets that they dropped, you know, as 1519 01:18:43.560 --> 01:18:45.359 we went through, and I've got them in an album 1520 01:18:45.359 --> 01:18:48.680 at home because there's some interesting keepsakes on and we 1521 01:18:49.039 --> 01:18:53.239 remember like watching them every evening, uh, you know, for 1522 01:18:53.239 --> 01:18:55.760 a while during the war, they would send the B 1523 01:18:55.920 --> 01:18:57.920 fifty two's and they would bomb them every night at 1524 01:18:57.920 --> 01:19:00.680 the same time and just like up the sky. To 1525 01:19:00.720 --> 01:19:03.199 be honest, at one point, for a while we were 1526 01:19:03.199 --> 01:19:05.119 feeling sorry for him because you could see it coming, 1527 01:19:05.359 --> 01:19:08.439 you know, for minutes as they were streaming across, just 1528 01:19:08.439 --> 01:19:10.119 as the sun was going down, and you knew about 1529 01:19:10.119 --> 01:19:12.239 the sun. Time the sun went down, they were going 1530 01:19:12.319 --> 01:19:15.560 to get their daily bombing, and man, they just hammered 1531 01:19:15.640 --> 01:19:18.520 them day after day after day. And we were having them, 1532 01:19:18.800 --> 01:19:20.800 you know, while we were along the border, we were 1533 01:19:20.800 --> 01:19:24.920 having them surrender, you know, fairly regularly in pretty big groups. 1534 01:19:25.399 --> 01:19:27.840 And a lot of times when they surrendered, they would 1535 01:19:27.840 --> 01:19:29.239 come up and try to hug us, and you know, 1536 01:19:29.279 --> 01:19:32.880 they weren't. They didn't understand, hey, we're at war. So 1537 01:19:32.880 --> 01:19:34.359 we were having to throw them to the ground and 1538 01:19:34.359 --> 01:19:38.239 search them, and you know, but they were they felt 1539 01:19:38.279 --> 01:19:40.039 like they were at a family reunion or something. I 1540 01:19:40.039 --> 01:19:41.920 don't know what was going on. They were so excited 1541 01:19:41.920 --> 01:19:45.039 to be out of there. But at the same time, 1542 01:19:45.520 --> 01:19:47.920 you know, they they hadn't received the memo that looked 1543 01:19:48.279 --> 01:19:50.359 we're still focused on you as the enemy. 1544 01:19:51.359 --> 01:19:54.159 Yeah, I mean, unless it's like the Republican Guard, they're 1545 01:19:54.199 --> 01:19:56.600 not really interested in dying for Saddam. I don't think. 1546 01:19:57.159 --> 01:19:58.199 Yeah, they really weren't. 1547 01:19:58.199 --> 01:20:00.000 And it was kind of a it was pretty sad 1548 01:20:00.079 --> 01:20:02.279 story for most of them because you know, they were 1549 01:20:02.319 --> 01:20:05.119 kind of stuck in the middle. They were basically told 1550 01:20:05.159 --> 01:20:07.720 if you if you run away, we'll shoot you and 1551 01:20:07.760 --> 01:20:10.079 then you know, if you run too fast towards us, 1552 01:20:10.199 --> 01:20:12.239 you might shoot them, because you know, it's hard to tell. 1553 01:20:13.279 --> 01:20:15.840 It wasn't a real good win win situation. 1554 01:20:15.479 --> 01:20:18.800 For him and for your element. Did you guys have 1555 01:20:18.920 --> 01:20:20.720 like a phase line that you were supposed to move 1556 01:20:20.800 --> 01:20:22.439 up to in Kuwait City? 1557 01:20:23.760 --> 01:20:27.039 We did, I want to say, I don't remember for sure, 1558 01:20:27.039 --> 01:20:28.560 but I think it was like six Ring Road. 1559 01:20:28.840 --> 01:20:29.720 Was there. 1560 01:20:31.079 --> 01:20:33.159 One limit of advance we were supposed to reach by 1561 01:20:33.199 --> 01:20:36.159 the end of the morning of that first day, or 1562 01:20:36.600 --> 01:20:38.119 I guess it'd be the morning of the next day. 1563 01:20:38.840 --> 01:20:39.840 But because our. 1564 01:20:39.840 --> 01:20:43.840 First objective was to retake that military complex and then 1565 01:20:43.880 --> 01:20:45.640 after that we got the follow on mission to move 1566 01:20:45.680 --> 01:20:49.560 on into Kuwait City and I think it was to 1567 01:20:49.640 --> 01:20:51.840 stop at six Ring Road, but I don't remember for sure. 1568 01:20:52.199 --> 01:20:53.319 It's been a long time. 1569 01:20:53.319 --> 01:20:55.840 So you guys didn't see the Highway of Death and 1570 01:20:55.880 --> 01:20:56.840 all that kind of stuff. 1571 01:20:57.680 --> 01:21:01.239 Uh, we saw some of it, because once we moved 1572 01:21:01.319 --> 01:21:04.159 up into positions, some of us were pulled out to 1573 01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:07.039 you know, to do different things, and then they started 1574 01:21:07.880 --> 01:21:11.680 retasking us to work on missions. Some of the guys 1575 01:21:11.720 --> 01:21:14.920 got moved over to the like the Equestrian Club. There 1576 01:21:14.920 --> 01:21:18.920 were several other follow on missions that we were kind 1577 01:21:18.920 --> 01:21:22.239 of tasked to do to start to regroup once the 1578 01:21:22.920 --> 01:21:26.600 city was retaken or the country was retaken, they just 1579 01:21:26.720 --> 01:21:30.319 kind of held the coalition forces in place. They didn't 1580 01:21:30.359 --> 01:21:32.800 really play much of a part then, so they started 1581 01:21:33.159 --> 01:21:36.199 retasking a lot of the SF teams and that's what 1582 01:21:36.279 --> 01:21:39.239 happened to us. Like, I think it was middle of 1583 01:21:39.279 --> 01:21:42.199 the second day, we started getting retasked and we were 1584 01:21:42.239 --> 01:21:44.840 moving over to regroup, and so we did see some 1585 01:21:44.880 --> 01:21:48.039 of that in the process by moving towards rally points 1586 01:21:48.039 --> 01:21:50.680 in order to get tasked out for the next thing. 1587 01:21:51.520 --> 01:21:53.760 And what was the next thing for you? Like you 1588 01:21:53.840 --> 01:21:56.159 mentioned you had volunteered to stay an additional month. 1589 01:21:57.239 --> 01:22:01.760 So I'm trying to remember exactly what we did after that. 1590 01:22:01.880 --> 01:22:04.960 I mean, nothing, nothing exciting happened after that. It was 1591 01:22:05.000 --> 01:22:10.640 a lot of like routine boring, you know, security, moving 1592 01:22:10.680 --> 01:22:13.039 stuff that are to the rear. Yeah, it was really 1593 01:22:13.159 --> 01:22:16.680 mundane at that point. There was not much happening. We 1594 01:22:16.800 --> 01:22:21.600 had a few folks that were working with like guys 1595 01:22:21.640 --> 01:22:24.439 that had been part of the Kuwaiti resistance element, and 1596 01:22:24.520 --> 01:22:26.760 part of it was like trying to bring them back 1597 01:22:26.800 --> 01:22:30.479 in and get them to stop like beating and brutalizing 1598 01:22:30.520 --> 01:22:33.439 the Iraqis that were captured because they were they were 1599 01:22:33.479 --> 01:22:35.359 on the verges of war crimes. So there was a 1600 01:22:35.359 --> 01:22:38.039 lot of guys trying to negotiate some of that and 1601 01:22:38.119 --> 01:22:41.279 get that under control. H you know, trying to get 1602 01:22:41.640 --> 01:22:45.600 equipment back to the rear. And you know, I think 1603 01:22:45.640 --> 01:22:48.560 I pulled a little duty, you know, running like a 1604 01:22:48.680 --> 01:22:51.800 battalion aid station or a company aid station for a 1605 01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:53.960 while to just kind of take care of guys as 1606 01:22:53.960 --> 01:22:56.239 we're trying to rotate and start to pull guys out. 1607 01:22:58.159 --> 01:23:01.960 And so I mean, this is this is your big 1608 01:23:02.000 --> 01:23:05.720 war experience after training for it for years and years, 1609 01:23:06.039 --> 01:23:09.079 And what was it like coming back home from Desert Storm? 1610 01:23:09.800 --> 01:23:12.600 It was I mean it was really interesting because you know, 1611 01:23:12.680 --> 01:23:16.000 we we had the benefit of getting all the praise 1612 01:23:16.079 --> 01:23:19.119 that the Vietnam guys should have gotten. Yeah, and everybody, 1613 01:23:19.399 --> 01:23:23.720 you know, was was finally aware of how the country 1614 01:23:23.760 --> 01:23:25.560 had acted, and so there was a lot of guilt, 1615 01:23:25.640 --> 01:23:30.359 I think, and as a result, people maybe over compensated 1616 01:23:30.840 --> 01:23:32.640 or tried to to some degree. So there was a 1617 01:23:32.640 --> 01:23:34.680 lot of you know, some of the guys were coming back, 1618 01:23:34.760 --> 01:23:37.079 they they had parties and parades and they were going 1619 01:23:37.119 --> 01:23:37.880 to New York City. 1620 01:23:37.920 --> 01:23:39.600 I didn't I didn't do any of that. I just 1621 01:23:39.640 --> 01:23:40.159 came back. 1622 01:23:40.560 --> 01:23:44.159 There was a big, you know, welcome thing at the 1623 01:23:44.439 --> 01:23:47.479 airfield at Fort Campbell when we got back, and then 1624 01:23:47.920 --> 01:23:49.680 I got back, turned in my weapon and went on 1625 01:23:49.720 --> 01:23:52.439 thirty days leave. That was the uh you know, the 1626 01:23:52.520 --> 01:23:55.720 thing at the time is to take some leave. And 1627 01:23:56.399 --> 01:23:59.279 it was you know, like I said, I'd moved over 1628 01:23:59.319 --> 01:24:02.840 there to like a brand new team. Didn't know that 1629 01:24:02.880 --> 01:24:04.880 a lot of the guys, most of them are brand new. 1630 01:24:05.319 --> 01:24:09.000 The initial leadership was not very impressive. We actually during 1631 01:24:09.039 --> 01:24:11.600 that time got rid of the team sergeant that wasn't 1632 01:24:12.039 --> 01:24:14.520 wasn't that great, and we got a guy that was actually, 1633 01:24:14.960 --> 01:24:17.000 you know, a much more dynamic leader who was only 1634 01:24:17.000 --> 01:24:19.279 an E seven. That was the eighteen Fox that moved 1635 01:24:19.319 --> 01:24:22.159 up and moved up and took the team and really 1636 01:24:22.279 --> 01:24:24.560 ran it the way it was supposed to be. So, 1637 01:24:25.720 --> 01:24:29.920 you know, I was a little disenchanted after my experience there, 1638 01:24:30.159 --> 01:24:32.479 you know, because I'd been spoiled. I'd had some good 1639 01:24:32.520 --> 01:24:36.439 experiences being in fifth group. I had my first couple 1640 01:24:36.520 --> 01:24:40.720 of team starts were like really great, very organized, very professional, 1641 01:24:41.359 --> 01:24:44.359 and uh, you know, the one team start and I 1642 01:24:44.399 --> 01:24:46.720 had when I was on the special Projects team was 1643 01:24:46.720 --> 01:24:49.920 a guy named Greg Daily that I think he actually 1644 01:24:49.920 --> 01:24:53.279 designed the Halo badge and he had been part of 1645 01:24:53.319 --> 01:24:57.279 the blue Light teams and stuff like that, so really great, 1646 01:24:57.319 --> 01:24:58.039 impressive guy. 1647 01:24:58.119 --> 01:24:59.199 Learned a lot from him. 1648 01:24:59.560 --> 01:25:01.680 So I'd had all this great leadership and then I 1649 01:25:01.720 --> 01:25:02.920 got stuck with this. 1650 01:25:03.239 --> 01:25:07.199 That this guy that's so cool. I wrote about Greg 1651 01:25:07.279 --> 01:25:11.640 Daily in my book, Yeah yeah, about his involvement in 1652 01:25:11.680 --> 01:25:14.840 blue Light. Now I recently talked to his son a 1653 01:25:14.880 --> 01:25:20.199 little bit. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, cool. We're super cool guy. 1654 01:25:20.880 --> 01:25:23.840 Very cool and you know, very laid back, you know, 1655 01:25:24.119 --> 01:25:29.439 like kind of a cool surfer dude, and just really 1656 01:25:29.439 --> 01:25:33.319 smart as far as s f and an inspiring leader 1657 01:25:33.560 --> 01:25:35.960 to really kind of, you know, teach you a lot. 1658 01:25:36.439 --> 01:25:40.319 I wish I'd have paid more attention and really understood 1659 01:25:40.399 --> 01:25:42.399 the same thing as kind of working with Walt Shoe made. 1660 01:25:42.439 --> 01:25:43.359 I didn't know what I had. 1661 01:25:44.000 --> 01:25:47.760 But you know, once you you go to the other 1662 01:25:47.840 --> 01:25:50.439 side of it and you get somebody who's a week 1663 01:25:50.560 --> 01:25:53.319 leader after having some strong leaders, then you recognize all 1664 01:25:53.359 --> 01:25:56.560 those traits and you really start to have a clue 1665 01:25:56.560 --> 01:25:59.560 about you know, the benefits you had earlier. 1666 01:26:00.479 --> 01:26:03.039 So the next thing for you. You got put on 1667 01:26:03.199 --> 01:26:04.479 a desert mobility team. 1668 01:26:05.520 --> 01:26:07.039 Yeah. Yeah. 1669 01:26:06.319 --> 01:26:10.479 I was lucky enough that one of the guys who 1670 01:26:11.560 --> 01:26:14.800 who had been on the Pakistan trip with me, uh 1671 01:26:15.399 --> 01:26:18.800 had taken the desert mobility team in that company that 1672 01:26:18.880 --> 01:26:22.680 I was in, in third Battalion, and so he knew 1673 01:26:22.680 --> 01:26:26.079 who I was, and he had been there, you know 1674 01:26:26.119 --> 01:26:27.840 when the guy blew his hand off, and you know, 1675 01:26:27.880 --> 01:26:30.319 we were there the whole time for that six months. 1676 01:26:30.399 --> 01:26:32.600 So he got me moved over to his team. 1677 01:26:32.680 --> 01:26:35.119 He knew I had done the Beehind vendor stuff in 1678 01:26:35.159 --> 01:26:36.920 the desert, and then I had some background with the 1679 01:26:36.960 --> 01:26:41.439 motorcycles and and the vehicles, and so he you know, 1680 01:26:41.520 --> 01:26:44.319 got me on that team and kind of really turned 1681 01:26:44.319 --> 01:26:47.319 things around for me. A guy named Dave Brace, great 1682 01:26:47.319 --> 01:26:51.920 team sergeant, and you know, we we had a probably 1683 01:26:51.920 --> 01:26:54.560 one of the best teams I think I've ever been 1684 01:26:54.600 --> 01:26:57.079 connected to or saw Laws and Special Forces. We had 1685 01:26:57.079 --> 01:27:00.000 a lot of you know, great guys, highly motivated, very 1686 01:27:00.119 --> 01:27:04.279 technical in their individual moss and a team that just 1687 01:27:04.319 --> 01:27:05.520 really jailed well. 1688 01:27:06.279 --> 01:27:08.479 And you guys had all this experience doing it from 1689 01:27:08.560 --> 01:27:09.239 desert storm. 1690 01:27:10.279 --> 01:27:11.000 Yeah, we did. 1691 01:27:11.039 --> 01:27:13.079 We and most of the guys, you know, we had 1692 01:27:13.119 --> 01:27:14.840 a like one or two guys that were new that 1693 01:27:14.880 --> 01:27:18.760 had missed Desert Storm. But for the most part, you know, 1694 01:27:19.039 --> 01:27:24.159 the guys all had solid backgrounds. And then the interesting 1695 01:27:24.199 --> 01:27:27.079 part is not long after that, we actually got deployed 1696 01:27:27.079 --> 01:27:30.600 to Pakistan again to do a joint training mission with 1697 01:27:30.680 --> 01:27:35.640 the Pakistani Special Forces, which was another great trip, and 1698 01:27:36.079 --> 01:27:39.880 since I'd had that time in Pakistan, you know, that 1699 01:27:40.159 --> 01:27:43.039 kind of really set me up well for success to. 1700 01:27:43.399 --> 01:27:45.600 Do well with that with the SSG. 1701 01:27:46.600 --> 01:27:47.760 Yes, the SSG. 1702 01:27:47.439 --> 01:27:51.279 Special was Chris Miller with you guys. 1703 01:27:51.760 --> 01:27:54.560 Chris Miller. I think maybe he was. He wasn't on 1704 01:27:54.680 --> 01:27:58.039 my team. I'm trying to remember if he was there 1705 01:27:58.079 --> 01:28:03.000 for sure. I didn't work directly with him, so I 1706 01:28:03.039 --> 01:28:04.359 don't remember if he was there or not. 1707 01:28:04.479 --> 01:28:06.159 Yeah, it might have been like the team before or 1708 01:28:06.199 --> 01:28:07.720 the team after or something like that. 1709 01:28:09.000 --> 01:28:09.680 Could have been. We went. 1710 01:28:09.720 --> 01:28:11.880 We actually went twice, so I went on two of 1711 01:28:11.920 --> 01:28:16.279 those deployments with the say SSG to do joint operations 1712 01:28:16.319 --> 01:28:16.640 with them. 1713 01:28:16.920 --> 01:28:18.760 What was that like? Working with them? 1714 01:28:19.239 --> 01:28:20.039 It was really cool. 1715 01:28:20.119 --> 01:28:23.520 They They have this unique compound that's on the top 1716 01:28:23.560 --> 01:28:28.840 of this mountain called Charat and it's they were actually 1717 01:28:29.520 --> 01:28:35.039 initially founded by some of our special Forces from I 1718 01:28:35.079 --> 01:28:37.399 think it was from tenth Group back in the fifties, 1719 01:28:37.800 --> 01:28:41.399 and so they are they very much treated us like 1720 01:28:41.439 --> 01:28:43.760 they're founding fathers, big brothers. There was a lot of 1721 01:28:43.760 --> 01:28:48.039 respect there, a lot of you know, like admiration. When 1722 01:28:48.079 --> 01:28:51.399 we were going over there, they actually renovated a complete 1723 01:28:51.680 --> 01:28:54.560 barracks complex for us to stay in, made sure we 1724 01:28:54.640 --> 01:28:59.000 had sit down toilets, hot showers. Kind of unique because 1725 01:28:59.039 --> 01:29:04.159 the hot showers were you know, run by a wooden 1726 01:29:04.159 --> 01:29:07.279 burning water heater, and they actually had a little kid 1727 01:29:07.279 --> 01:29:09.239 that they kept out there, you know, a little teenager 1728 01:29:09.640 --> 01:29:14.920 that had to feed the logs into the. 1729 01:29:13.439 --> 01:29:14.279 The hot water heater. 1730 01:29:14.319 --> 01:29:16.600 And I think one day one of the guys you know, 1731 01:29:16.800 --> 01:29:18.760 inadvertently came out of there and the water was a 1732 01:29:18.760 --> 01:29:21.119 little cold because it hadn't got fired up yet, and 1733 01:29:21.159 --> 01:29:23.880 he you know, shook and shivered and said who. And 1734 01:29:24.840 --> 01:29:27.600 one of the Pakistani officers went around and grabbed the 1735 01:29:27.960 --> 01:29:29.800 kid and started beating him with a riding crop. 1736 01:29:30.199 --> 01:29:30.399 You know. 1737 01:29:30.479 --> 01:29:32.800 We were like, hey, hey, it's okay, and he was, 1738 01:29:32.920 --> 01:29:35.960 you know, tell him, hey, you know these are I guess, 1739 01:29:35.960 --> 01:29:38.760 whatever you do, don't don't let the water be cold. 1740 01:29:38.800 --> 01:29:40.920 And from then on, the water would like scald you 1741 01:29:40.960 --> 01:29:45.640 because then you know, he had gotten some serious discipline 1742 01:29:45.680 --> 01:29:48.960 over it. But it was interesting because they had this 1743 01:29:48.960 --> 01:29:52.520 this whole cliff sheer cliff wall that has all these 1744 01:29:52.640 --> 01:29:57.079 carved symbols in it from all the British units that 1745 01:29:57.119 --> 01:29:59.399 they had worked with. And then they have a giant 1746 01:30:00.319 --> 01:30:04.319 you know insignia with a sword and lightning bolts that 1747 01:30:04.520 --> 01:30:07.640 it's their version of our crossed arrows, you know, so 1748 01:30:08.880 --> 01:30:13.159 it's their shoulder insignia, and it's in this giant, probably 1749 01:30:13.439 --> 01:30:17.000 twelve fifteen foot model of it. And I got a 1750 01:30:17.000 --> 01:30:19.640 great team picture in front of it of that from 1751 01:30:19.680 --> 01:30:22.319 that trip. And then we did you know, some joint 1752 01:30:22.319 --> 01:30:25.439 mountain training with them. On one of those operations where 1753 01:30:25.479 --> 01:30:29.039 we actually jumped into we did a night combat equipment jump. 1754 01:30:29.199 --> 01:30:32.600 I was the jump master for that in the foothills 1755 01:30:33.000 --> 01:30:36.319 in the north, and then did a movement across the 1756 01:30:36.359 --> 01:30:40.039 mountains in the snow, and it actually snowed so much 1757 01:30:40.359 --> 01:30:43.720 that we had to keep somebody awake and shoveling snow 1758 01:30:43.720 --> 01:30:45.960 off the tent all night to keep it from collapsing. 1759 01:30:46.920 --> 01:30:51.439 And then we moved to an area and we had 1760 01:30:51.439 --> 01:30:53.159 to do a. 1761 01:30:52.800 --> 01:30:56.720 They were insistent for some reason on doing a river crossing, 1762 01:30:56.880 --> 01:31:00.520 and so you know with this glacier water, you know, 1763 01:31:00.560 --> 01:31:02.279 we spent a lot of time trying to talk them 1764 01:31:02.319 --> 01:31:04.720 into there's a bridge right over there, we can see it, 1765 01:31:05.319 --> 01:31:08.680 let's do that. We'll use security and then hit the objective. 1766 01:31:08.680 --> 01:31:11.359 But they were they were hell bent on having that 1767 01:31:11.520 --> 01:31:13.640 river crossing for whatever reason. It was one of their 1768 01:31:14.239 --> 01:31:16.159 things they were gonna die on. So we we did 1769 01:31:16.159 --> 01:31:19.079 the river crossing with them, uh, you know, revived some 1770 01:31:19.159 --> 01:31:22.039 people from cold, and then went to hit the objective 1771 01:31:22.880 --> 01:31:25.439 and then wrapped up the mission from there. So it 1772 01:31:25.920 --> 01:31:30.399 was actually another really good SF training opportunity to do 1773 01:31:30.439 --> 01:31:30.960 that with them. 1774 01:31:31.199 --> 01:31:33.680 Yeah. I mean that's pretty hardcore, moving through the snow, 1775 01:31:33.840 --> 01:31:39.239 jumping in, crossing the river, freezing water. Yeah. 1776 01:31:39.319 --> 01:31:41.359 Yeah, to this this day, I don't I don't like 1777 01:31:41.399 --> 01:31:43.199 the cold. It gets too cold here in Georgia for me. 1778 01:31:43.239 --> 01:31:45.119 I'm gonna have to move south, I think, because. 1779 01:31:44.960 --> 01:31:51.840 Yeah, I stopped running out doors in like November. I'm like, nah, 1780 01:31:51.960 --> 01:31:54.039 I'm not in ranger school anymore. I'm not doing this. 1781 01:31:56.279 --> 01:32:02.560 I So after this, you're you get promoted to team sergeant. 1782 01:32:03.359 --> 01:32:06.159 So so before I get promoted, I actually came back 1783 01:32:06.199 --> 01:32:08.279 from one of these trips, and I came down on 1784 01:32:08.520 --> 01:32:11.920 orders for Civil Affairs, ninety six Civil Affairs at Fort Bragg, 1785 01:32:11.920 --> 01:32:15.279 North Carolina, because I've been on a a protected status 1786 01:32:15.279 --> 01:32:18.680 from my time on the Special Project Team that so 1787 01:32:18.760 --> 01:32:23.000 I couldn't be I couldn't be moved or PCSD. And 1788 01:32:23.279 --> 01:32:25.159 so I got these orders because now I was off 1789 01:32:25.199 --> 01:32:27.560 that team, my time was up, and they were going 1790 01:32:27.640 --> 01:32:29.600 to send me to ninety six Civil Affairs as a 1791 01:32:29.640 --> 01:32:32.960 medic and and I really didn't want to go. I 1792 01:32:33.159 --> 01:32:35.880 was adamant, hey, you know, so I called up SF branch. 1793 01:32:36.439 --> 01:32:38.000 I was like, hey, you know, what can I do? 1794 01:32:38.079 --> 01:32:39.399 I really don't want to do this. I'd like to 1795 01:32:39.439 --> 01:32:41.439 do something else. And the guy at the time, I 1796 01:32:41.439 --> 01:32:43.960 don't remember his name, but he was like, you know, hell, though, 1797 01:32:44.000 --> 01:32:45.800 there's no way you're getting out of this. You're going 1798 01:32:45.880 --> 01:32:48.039 to go, and you're just gonna have to suck it up, 1799 01:32:48.079 --> 01:32:50.359 sorry to macwee, and do your time, pay your debt 1800 01:32:50.359 --> 01:32:53.359 to society and that's the end of that. And I 1801 01:32:53.399 --> 01:32:57.000 was like, man, that's and and you know, in classic 1802 01:32:57.159 --> 01:32:59.880 SF tradition, the only the only way to really get 1803 01:32:59.880 --> 01:33:01.399 a stuff got to do anything. It is telling me, 1804 01:33:01.439 --> 01:33:04.239 it can't be done. So I started, you know, trying 1805 01:33:04.239 --> 01:33:06.720 to call in favors and find out what could I do. 1806 01:33:06.760 --> 01:33:10.840 And and at one point, like when I when I 1807 01:33:11.000 --> 01:33:15.079 had auditioned for the Special Project team, I'd also run 1808 01:33:15.119 --> 01:33:19.680 into some guys and there was some talk about trying 1809 01:33:19.760 --> 01:33:23.640 to do Delta support selection as a medic and at 1810 01:33:23.640 --> 01:33:25.439 the time, I was on that Special Project team. So 1811 01:33:25.439 --> 01:33:26.840 I was like, well, you know, I'm good, you know, 1812 01:33:26.880 --> 01:33:29.279 I'm loving this. I don't want to do it. I'm 1813 01:33:29.279 --> 01:33:33.640 not interested. And so I contacted them back and said, hey, 1814 01:33:33.760 --> 01:33:36.479 you know, I'd like to come try out do that. 1815 01:33:36.960 --> 01:33:38.439 And so they, you know, they asked me, and I 1816 01:33:38.479 --> 01:33:40.439 was a senior E seven. They're like, I'm sorry, man, 1817 01:33:40.439 --> 01:33:43.159 we're really not interested in you. And you know, I 1818 01:33:43.159 --> 01:33:44.880 don't know if it was because I was a senior 1819 01:33:44.880 --> 01:33:47.439 because I had said no before, but either way, i'd 1820 01:33:47.520 --> 01:33:50.319 kind of maybe burnt that bridge at least for the moment, 1821 01:33:50.399 --> 01:33:52.279 and so they didn't have any interest in me. 1822 01:33:52.880 --> 01:33:54.119 I tried to go to. 1823 01:33:55.680 --> 01:33:59.359 You know, to Supartech or to even you know, one 1824 01:33:59.399 --> 01:34:02.680 of the be one of the medical instructors at Fort Bragg. 1825 01:34:02.680 --> 01:34:05.399 I tried everything I could think of, and I was 1826 01:34:05.479 --> 01:34:09.399 running out of options, and I came across this assignment 1827 01:34:09.720 --> 01:34:13.199 to go to the Ranger Battalion. At the time, right 1828 01:34:13.239 --> 01:34:18.800 after the Gothic Serpent deployment and the incident with Blackhawk Down, 1829 01:34:19.279 --> 01:34:23.279 they had restructured or in the process of restructuring, the 1830 01:34:23.319 --> 01:34:27.000 SF metic course to front load all the trauma medicine, 1831 01:34:27.039 --> 01:34:30.039 so the Ranger medics, the seals, all the other special 1832 01:34:30.039 --> 01:34:36.359 opsmetics could get that training as part of their package. 1833 01:34:36.520 --> 01:34:42.520 But in the interim, General Downing for SOCOM wanted to 1834 01:34:42.680 --> 01:34:47.279 have four SF medics at every Ranger battalion to do 1835 01:34:47.399 --> 01:34:50.960 interim training and train up all the Ranger medics. And 1836 01:34:51.039 --> 01:34:54.640 so they had a spot at third Ranger Battalion. They 1837 01:34:54.760 --> 01:34:58.319 had a guy that was there that had been working 1838 01:34:58.399 --> 01:35:02.000 for Schoolless Soldiers or excuse me, the School of Americas, 1839 01:35:02.439 --> 01:35:07.840 and then he came over to Third Battalion and he 1840 01:35:07.880 --> 01:35:11.800 couldn't pass their PT test, and you know, so he 1841 01:35:11.880 --> 01:35:13.920 made a really great impression for me. I didn't know 1842 01:35:13.960 --> 01:35:16.359 about any of this until I showed up and and 1843 01:35:16.399 --> 01:35:18.720 so I found out about the position. I called about 1844 01:35:18.720 --> 01:35:20.520 it and I said, hey, you know, I heard about this. 1845 01:35:21.680 --> 01:35:25.359 You know, I'm interested. Is it something that we could 1846 01:35:25.399 --> 01:35:27.319 work out, and the guy asked me. He goes, well, 1847 01:35:27.760 --> 01:35:29.560 you know, can you do some Can you do pull ups? 1848 01:35:29.640 --> 01:35:30.920 And I was like, well, how many? 1849 01:35:31.000 --> 01:35:31.159 You know? 1850 01:35:31.199 --> 01:35:33.640 And he goes, can you do six? I was like, hell, 1851 01:35:33.680 --> 01:35:36.800 I can do ten. You know I can handle. He goes, well, 1852 01:35:36.840 --> 01:35:38.359 what about rock March. I was like, oh, yeah, I 1853 01:35:38.359 --> 01:35:41.239 can rock March. He goes, well, can you you know, 1854 01:35:41.439 --> 01:35:43.800 can you run? I was like well, so, so I'm 1855 01:35:43.840 --> 01:35:46.800 like how much we talk and he's like five miles 1856 01:35:46.800 --> 01:35:48.640 and forty minutes. It's like, yeah, I can do that. 1857 01:35:49.039 --> 01:35:52.920 And so they set me up to go to to ROPE, 1858 01:35:52.960 --> 01:35:57.119 the Ranger Orientation program, and basically it was selection for 1859 01:35:57.199 --> 01:36:00.359 the position. So I went TDY to Fort Benning and 1860 01:36:00.560 --> 01:36:05.439 went through the rope selection and took the position and 1861 01:36:05.479 --> 01:36:07.119 went down to third Ranger Battalion. 1862 01:36:07.279 --> 01:36:10.199 So you you went to ROPE, so you actually became 1863 01:36:10.239 --> 01:36:10.720 a ranger. 1864 01:36:11.640 --> 01:36:13.279 Oh, it absolutely became a ranger. 1865 01:36:13.319 --> 01:36:16.279 So the whole time we were there, we wore black 1866 01:36:16.279 --> 01:36:18.800 berets because that was what the uniform was at the time, 1867 01:36:19.119 --> 01:36:20.039 had high and tights. 1868 01:36:20.079 --> 01:36:23.000 Every Monday, just like all the other Rangers or the 1869 01:36:23.079 --> 01:36:23.800 Rangers roll. 1870 01:36:24.279 --> 01:36:26.960 We were one hundred percent assigned and part of the 1871 01:36:27.039 --> 01:36:31.720 Ranger Battalion. We did every every you know, qualification, certification, 1872 01:36:32.039 --> 01:36:35.119 every task that all the other rangers had to do. 1873 01:36:35.239 --> 01:36:36.479 We had to do it, and we had to do 1874 01:36:36.520 --> 01:36:36.880 it better. 1875 01:36:37.199 --> 01:36:40.199 Yeah that's awesome. Yeah, it's not something just some tdy 1876 01:36:40.239 --> 01:36:43.840 assignment that you went and go chill out somewhere. Yeah, 1877 01:36:44.640 --> 01:36:45.159 the real thing. 1878 01:36:45.560 --> 01:36:47.039 It was not a chill out assignment. 1879 01:36:48.680 --> 01:36:50.800 What was that like? Going from like your whole career 1880 01:36:50.880 --> 01:36:53.920 up until this point had been Special Forces, you know, 1881 01:36:54.319 --> 01:36:58.560 long hair, slightly out of regulation, mustaches, you know, all 1882 01:36:58.600 --> 01:37:01.479 of that, and and working in an unconventional environment a 1883 01:37:01.520 --> 01:37:05.720 lot of times, and now going to the Super Regimental Regiment. 1884 01:37:07.039 --> 01:37:09.600 Oh yeah, so I was like a surfer kid in 1885 01:37:09.640 --> 01:37:12.359 a Catholic school, you know, I was going down there. 1886 01:37:12.960 --> 01:37:15.800 You know, everything's pretty laid back in SF. It's like, hey, 1887 01:37:15.800 --> 01:37:18.520 how you're doing everything down there? Is Rangers lead the way. 1888 01:37:19.000 --> 01:37:21.319 And you know there used to be this walkway that 1889 01:37:21.479 --> 01:37:27.319 went from the battalion headquarters up to the medical section, 1890 01:37:27.479 --> 01:37:30.119 which is where I worked. I was the NCIC for 1891 01:37:30.319 --> 01:37:33.079 third Range of Battalian's Medical Section, and I would have 1892 01:37:33.159 --> 01:37:35.760 to make that walk a couple of times every day 1893 01:37:35.800 --> 01:37:37.920 to go to all the meetings and everything. And we 1894 01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:39.880 used to call it the walk of Scowl because all 1895 01:37:39.920 --> 01:37:42.720 the guys, you know, the range of Battalian, their jaw 1896 01:37:42.880 --> 01:37:45.279 was all locked up tight, their face was all harsh, 1897 01:37:45.439 --> 01:37:47.720 and you know, just looking miserable as could be. 1898 01:37:48.359 --> 01:37:49.479 And you know, we would walk. 1899 01:37:49.319 --> 01:37:51.600 Down through there and for a while, you know, I 1900 01:37:51.720 --> 01:37:54.000 was like, hey, how's it going, and they're like rangers 1901 01:37:54.039 --> 01:37:54.399 lead away. 1902 01:37:54.439 --> 01:37:54.560 You know. 1903 01:37:54.600 --> 01:37:57.319 Everything was real, super ultra serious the whole time. So 1904 01:37:57.359 --> 01:38:00.119 it was a big adjustment, you know, for there. And 1905 01:38:00.119 --> 01:38:02.800 the worst part was these there had been two other 1906 01:38:02.840 --> 01:38:06.119 guys in the position there before me, and one of them, 1907 01:38:06.399 --> 01:38:09.479 the very first guy, had gotten in trouble and I 1908 01:38:09.479 --> 01:38:11.359 think he was out of third group. I don't remember 1909 01:38:11.399 --> 01:38:13.119 for sure. I can't remember his name off the top 1910 01:38:13.119 --> 01:38:14.880 of my head. I only heard about him. I never 1911 01:38:14.880 --> 01:38:18.239 met him. But he had actually gotten sent to military 1912 01:38:18.319 --> 01:38:24.359 confinement because he had ammunition and demolition C four in 1913 01:38:24.439 --> 01:38:27.199 his shed at the house, so he'd been stealing stuff 1914 01:38:27.239 --> 01:38:31.159 from the Ranger battalion and storing it in his shed. 1915 01:38:30.960 --> 01:38:31.640 For some reason. 1916 01:38:32.239 --> 01:38:34.560 And then we had the guy after him who found 1917 01:38:34.560 --> 01:38:37.319 out about the opening and came over and kind of 1918 01:38:37.319 --> 01:38:39.520 slid in the position because he was already on post 1919 01:38:39.600 --> 01:38:42.279 at Fort Benning for school in Americas, and his whole 1920 01:38:42.319 --> 01:38:44.560 reason for coming over is he wanted to get this 1921 01:38:44.640 --> 01:38:48.000 special assignment and try to make E eight. And he 1922 01:38:48.000 --> 01:38:50.520 couldn't pass the PT test. He couldn't do the rough march, 1923 01:38:51.079 --> 01:38:53.600 he couldn't do the pull ups, you know, because he 1924 01:38:53.840 --> 01:38:57.199 was supposed to pass the fitness tests and go to 1925 01:38:57.279 --> 01:39:00.600 Ranger School. And then I showed up there and I 1926 01:39:00.680 --> 01:39:03.359 got a one page continuity book from him. It was 1927 01:39:03.399 --> 01:39:06.880 typed online notebook paper, and the only thing it told 1928 01:39:06.960 --> 01:39:09.600 me was, you know, like when the meetings were so, 1929 01:39:09.640 --> 01:39:11.880 I had no idea about anything that was going on. 1930 01:39:12.840 --> 01:39:16.359 And I went to like my first company training meeting 1931 01:39:17.039 --> 01:39:20.159 and the company commander introduced me, Hey, this is our macwee. 1932 01:39:20.199 --> 01:39:24.479 He's he's our new Special Forces medic running the MEDSHD 1933 01:39:24.920 --> 01:39:26.720 and you know, it's kind of a dog eat dog 1934 01:39:26.760 --> 01:39:29.199 world there. And one of the guys, you know, like 1935 01:39:29.439 --> 01:39:31.680 straight out said well, what kind of criminal are you? 1936 01:39:32.279 --> 01:39:36.239 And having come from you know, the SF team area, 1937 01:39:36.279 --> 01:39:37.359 you know, I said, well, I'm a murderer. 1938 01:39:37.399 --> 01:39:38.560 I just haven't been caught yet. 1939 01:39:39.199 --> 01:39:41.079 And you know, so I had to give it back 1940 01:39:41.079 --> 01:39:44.039 to him pretty good And luckily, the thing that really 1941 01:39:44.119 --> 01:39:46.520 kind of saved me there is I'd had some background 1942 01:39:46.640 --> 01:39:50.199 in developing the combatives program at Fifth Group, and so 1943 01:39:50.239 --> 01:39:52.560 we had a couple of events that happened to where 1944 01:39:52.880 --> 01:39:55.279 there was some combatives, and so I actually had to, 1945 01:39:55.680 --> 01:39:57.680 you know, put some throw down on a couple of 1946 01:39:57.720 --> 01:40:00.680 guys to actually prove that I wasn't the this guy 1947 01:40:00.720 --> 01:40:03.520 who couldn't do pull ups and I wasn't this criminal. 1948 01:40:03.479 --> 01:40:04.760 You know, that was unprofessional. 1949 01:40:04.840 --> 01:40:08.479 So the guys before me had left this really unprofessional 1950 01:40:08.960 --> 01:40:11.239 taste in their mouth, and they don't exactly love SF 1951 01:40:11.279 --> 01:40:11.920 guys anyway. 1952 01:40:11.960 --> 01:40:13.399 They don't you know, they. 1953 01:40:13.279 --> 01:40:15.720 Don't trust this. They think we're unprofessional. And these guys 1954 01:40:15.720 --> 01:40:18.640 did nothing but prove that. So the whole time I 1955 01:40:18.680 --> 01:40:21.880 got there, initially, I was busy trying to earn my 1956 01:40:21.960 --> 01:40:25.199 reputation with them. They had no respect for me. They 1957 01:40:25.199 --> 01:40:28.520 didn't think much of me. I was just another SF loser. 1958 01:40:28.960 --> 01:40:30.720 And the only thing that turned it around for me 1959 01:40:30.800 --> 01:40:33.119 is I went to another one of those meetings and 1960 01:40:33.159 --> 01:40:37.079 I kept seeing this thing on the schedule that said Medex, 1961 01:40:37.159 --> 01:40:38.960 you know, and I was like, what's this Medex. It's like, Oh, 1962 01:40:38.960 --> 01:40:40.960 that's the medical exercise that you guys are going to do. 1963 01:40:41.159 --> 01:40:44.439 I was like, oh, okay, cool, and so, you know, 1964 01:40:44.680 --> 01:40:46.760 I asked around a little bit and hey, what's this 1965 01:40:46.840 --> 01:40:49.000 medical exercise we're doing? And they're like, well, it's whatever 1966 01:40:49.039 --> 01:40:52.680 you make and I was like what. And it's like, yeah, 1967 01:40:52.720 --> 01:40:54.880 you're you're responsible for this, whatever you come up with 1968 01:40:55.039 --> 01:40:57.319 to train the medics. And this was the first I'd 1969 01:40:57.359 --> 01:40:59.319 heard of it, and we were now about a month 1970 01:40:59.359 --> 01:41:03.479 out from this, you know, training exercise. So I started 1971 01:41:03.479 --> 01:41:05.399 looking into it to find out, well, what assets do 1972 01:41:05.479 --> 01:41:08.159 we have, what's the scenario, what's the plan? And there 1973 01:41:08.199 --> 01:41:11.960 was nothing done. Nobody had had initiated or started anything. 1974 01:41:13.760 --> 01:41:17.000 And the one thing I found out was they initially 1975 01:41:17.039 --> 01:41:19.960 there had been a request to get some helicopter support 1976 01:41:20.000 --> 01:41:22.760 from Task Force one sixty to do this medical exercise, 1977 01:41:23.399 --> 01:41:25.119 and so I went to the S three air at 1978 01:41:25.119 --> 01:41:29.159 the time, it was Matt Eversman from Blackhawk Down. Awesome guy, 1979 01:41:29.520 --> 01:41:30.960 and I was talking to him and I was like, hey, 1980 01:41:31.000 --> 01:41:33.119 Sartin eversmen, what's the deal with this medex and the 1981 01:41:33.159 --> 01:41:35.760 helicopters And it's like, well, you know, we sent your 1982 01:41:35.760 --> 01:41:38.000 request up and the guys are doing this and that 1983 01:41:38.039 --> 01:41:40.279 and you're not gonna get any helicopters, so you know, 1984 01:41:40.319 --> 01:41:42.920 you got nothing. And then I was like okay. And 1985 01:41:42.960 --> 01:41:46.039 then I asked him, well, okay, you're S three training. 1986 01:41:46.319 --> 01:41:48.840 Do we have a training area? And he's like, no, 1987 01:41:48.840 --> 01:41:51.560 nobody requested anything. You guys don't have anything. So the 1988 01:41:51.640 --> 01:41:54.079 more I looked into this exercise, the more I found 1989 01:41:54.079 --> 01:41:57.239 out there was nothing coordinated for it at all. This 1990 01:41:57.279 --> 01:41:59.960 guy who had been there before me had done zero. 1991 01:42:00.880 --> 01:42:04.479 So you know, I started looking around. The first thing 1992 01:42:04.520 --> 01:42:06.960 I did was I got in my pickup truck because 1993 01:42:07.199 --> 01:42:09.439 you know, I asked him about, well, what about other 1994 01:42:10.039 --> 01:42:12.640 you know, helicopter units on post, and he said, well, 1995 01:42:12.640 --> 01:42:16.000 there's a matavac unit, there's a National Guard unit, and 1996 01:42:16.880 --> 01:42:19.920 you know that. His assistant Eric called him up while 1997 01:42:19.960 --> 01:42:23.800 I was sitting there and asked him about that. I said, hey, 1998 01:42:23.800 --> 01:42:25.760 this is third Ranger Battalion. You know, we'd like to 1999 01:42:25.880 --> 01:42:28.239 task and use some of your helicopters. And you know, 2000 01:42:28.279 --> 01:42:30.079 it was a real short conversation and he got off 2001 01:42:30.119 --> 01:42:31.680 he goes, yeah, they said no, and I was like, 2002 01:42:31.720 --> 01:42:34.000 what what do you mean? They said no? And so 2003 01:42:34.039 --> 01:42:35.520 I asked him. I was like, well, where's the unit 2004 01:42:35.560 --> 01:42:37.359 at what unit is it. So I got my pickup 2005 01:42:37.399 --> 01:42:38.840 truck and I drove the other side of the post. 2006 01:42:38.840 --> 01:42:40.439 I went over there and talked to him in person, 2007 01:42:41.079 --> 01:42:42.600 you know, met him, said hey, you know, I'm sorry 2008 01:42:42.640 --> 01:42:44.079 Macaway from third Range of Battalion. 2009 01:42:44.520 --> 01:42:47.399 You guys got some helicopters. I was wondering, we'd really. 2010 01:42:47.199 --> 01:42:49.079 Like to do some training with you, maybe train some 2011 01:42:49.119 --> 01:42:51.199 of your guys on you know, some of our stuff. 2012 01:42:51.239 --> 01:42:53.319 We'd like to work with you, you know, what what 2013 01:42:53.319 --> 01:42:56.199 can we do? And the fact that I went there 2014 01:42:56.239 --> 01:42:58.640 in person and talked to the guy, the guy was 2015 01:42:58.640 --> 01:43:01.479 really open to it. And so you know, I got 2016 01:43:01.720 --> 01:43:04.319 this National Guard helicopter unit and I did the same 2017 01:43:04.359 --> 01:43:06.359 thing with the METAVAC unit that said hey, you know, 2018 01:43:06.359 --> 01:43:07.319 we're training the medics. 2019 01:43:07.479 --> 01:43:09.159 We'd like to work with you guys. 2020 01:43:09.720 --> 01:43:12.239 And so then the the other piece was we didn't 2021 01:43:12.239 --> 01:43:17.159 have a training area, and same thing happened. I asked, well, 2022 01:43:17.239 --> 01:43:19.600 where can we do a training area? You know, what 2023 01:43:19.680 --> 01:43:21.960 can we use? And they have an area there called 2024 01:43:22.039 --> 01:43:25.000 mckinnam Mountain Site, which is a really excellent training facility. 2025 01:43:25.880 --> 01:43:28.520 And you know, I came up with the concept that 2026 01:43:28.560 --> 01:43:32.119 what we would do is kind of do a take 2027 01:43:32.239 --> 01:43:35.800 on you know, a follow up from the incident with 2028 01:43:35.840 --> 01:43:39.399 Blackhawk down to where urban environment. You've got people trapped 2029 01:43:39.439 --> 01:43:44.239 inside the city and we've got casualties. Let's work on 2030 01:43:44.560 --> 01:43:47.079 some scenarios for the medics to run through their triage, 2031 01:43:47.279 --> 01:43:49.640 you know, deal with casualties on the ground, and then 2032 01:43:50.159 --> 01:43:53.399 we will evacuate those casualties. Well, we'll role play the 2033 01:43:53.439 --> 01:43:58.079 casualties as down pilots or you know, other members that 2034 01:43:58.119 --> 01:44:00.880 are stuck in an urban environment, and then we'll evacuate 2035 01:44:00.920 --> 01:44:01.880 them out by helicopter. 2036 01:44:02.560 --> 01:44:03.039 And so. 2037 01:44:04.640 --> 01:44:09.239 I found out that one of the officer training schools 2038 01:44:09.359 --> 01:44:11.760 on post had mckinnam Ountain site for the time we 2039 01:44:12.159 --> 01:44:12.840 were trying to do. 2040 01:44:13.560 --> 01:44:16.399 And so same thing, you. 2041 01:44:16.359 --> 01:44:18.640 Know, we called up asked for CO usage and like no, 2042 01:44:18.840 --> 01:44:21.359 you know, so I went over in person again, got 2043 01:44:21.359 --> 01:44:24.680 my little gray Ranger pickup truck, drove over, said hey, 2044 01:44:24.680 --> 01:44:25.560 I'm sorry mcawee. 2045 01:44:25.840 --> 01:44:27.159 You know, we'd like to work with you guys. 2046 01:44:27.159 --> 01:44:30.479 Maybe we could exchange some training, train you guys, you 2047 01:44:30.520 --> 01:44:32.920 know on some tactics or something. You know, what can 2048 01:44:32.920 --> 01:44:36.159 we do to work out CO usage on this mckennam 2049 01:44:36.199 --> 01:44:37.840 ount site that you have. And they're like, oh, yeah, 2050 01:44:37.880 --> 01:44:40.720 no problem. So they signed off for co usage for US, 2051 01:44:41.399 --> 01:44:44.600 and then about a week later they actually fell out 2052 01:44:44.640 --> 01:44:46.199 and just gave it to US for I don't know 2053 01:44:46.239 --> 01:44:48.239 what changed in their schedule, but they didn't need the area. 2054 01:44:48.319 --> 01:44:51.960 So now I had a training area, I had aircraft, 2055 01:44:52.279 --> 01:44:57.279 and so I got support from within the range of 2056 01:44:57.279 --> 01:45:00.800 Battalion for Op four and then a coup of platoons 2057 01:45:00.840 --> 01:45:05.720 to serve as you know, search to do mount clearing 2058 01:45:05.840 --> 01:45:08.319 through the city to find the casualties with the medic 2059 01:45:08.359 --> 01:45:10.800 attached to them to do the scenarios. And then I 2060 01:45:10.840 --> 01:45:12.800 also found out that one of the guys I knew 2061 01:45:13.000 --> 01:45:15.319 was an sf guy on a Halo team. They were 2062 01:45:15.359 --> 01:45:17.560 coming down to Fort Benning to do some training. So 2063 01:45:17.880 --> 01:45:19.520 you know, I asked them, Hey, would you guys want 2064 01:45:19.560 --> 01:45:21.920 to do a scenario with us? And they were They 2065 01:45:21.920 --> 01:45:24.840 were coming in from seventh Group had some things set up, 2066 01:45:24.880 --> 01:45:27.399 and I said, you know, I coordinated with them to 2067 01:45:27.560 --> 01:45:32.239 do to be another star team to look for the 2068 01:45:32.279 --> 01:45:34.479 down pilot in the city. So what I had set 2069 01:45:34.560 --> 01:45:37.720 up was they would we would alternate teams. We would 2070 01:45:37.720 --> 01:45:40.920 alternate a ranger platoon with the s FODA, a team 2071 01:45:40.960 --> 01:45:45.000 would fly in, or a platoon on the National Guard helicopters, 2072 01:45:45.000 --> 01:45:46.880 they put them down, they'd move through the city, get 2073 01:45:46.880 --> 01:45:50.079 the medics to the casualties. The medics would treat the casualties, 2074 01:45:50.399 --> 01:45:52.600 and then we would call in the METAVC birds and 2075 01:45:52.680 --> 01:45:55.640 they would you know, use the jungle penetrator or the 2076 01:45:55.640 --> 01:45:59.720 Stokes litter and they would evac them out. So and 2077 01:45:59.760 --> 01:46:02.359 then the teams with XFIL and I had it set 2078 01:46:02.439 --> 01:46:05.000 up so that we would do these constant rotations between 2079 01:46:05.159 --> 01:46:08.359 teams and medics and and then you know, the other 2080 01:46:09.079 --> 01:46:11.520 the other SF metics were there. We're in charge of 2081 01:46:11.560 --> 01:46:14.560 grading the trauma scenarios just like we do in our 2082 01:46:14.600 --> 01:46:18.359 three hundred ft one and do the moolage and set 2083 01:46:18.439 --> 01:46:20.840 up the fake casualties and all that. So once I 2084 01:46:20.920 --> 01:46:24.840 briefed this back to the you know, to the commander 2085 01:46:24.840 --> 01:46:29.159 and the battalion commander at the time, Colonel Kearney, great guy, 2086 01:46:29.359 --> 01:46:33.439 very impressive commander, and you know, he came out and 2087 01:46:33.479 --> 01:46:35.760 watched it the first day we were doing it. We 2088 01:46:35.800 --> 01:46:37.840 had a whole week of this training that was laid 2089 01:46:37.880 --> 01:46:40.640 on to go through this rotation, and after he saw 2090 01:46:40.640 --> 01:46:43.199 it the first day, he was impressed with it. So 2091 01:46:43.600 --> 01:46:46.560 he ordered all the Ranger Company commander all the officers 2092 01:46:46.560 --> 01:46:48.800 to come out there watch it and get Michael walk through. 2093 01:46:48.880 --> 01:46:49.880 So I spent my. 2094 01:46:49.840 --> 01:46:52.399 Whole week doing the dog and pony show with the 2095 01:46:52.880 --> 01:46:55.760 visitors folder walking them all through the scenarios. But after that, 2096 01:46:56.520 --> 01:46:59.520 I finally earned enough respect from the guys at the 2097 01:46:59.600 --> 01:47:01.840 Ranger would tie in because of the way I organized 2098 01:47:01.880 --> 01:47:04.800 the training event. And the bottom line is that the 2099 01:47:04.920 --> 01:47:07.880 range of medics did great. The other SF metics that 2100 01:47:07.880 --> 01:47:11.199 were working with me made the whole thing come off seamlessly, 2101 01:47:11.840 --> 01:47:15.600 and you know, executed the idea that I had, you know, 2102 01:47:15.720 --> 01:47:18.000 done the drug deals to get everybody in position for 2103 01:47:18.680 --> 01:47:21.399 and it came off really well, and the commander was 2104 01:47:21.520 --> 01:47:25.359 pretty happy with it. And so after that they treated me, 2105 01:47:25.600 --> 01:47:28.079 you know, almost like one of their own a little bit. 2106 01:47:29.159 --> 01:47:31.239 And then, you know, we did a couple of joint 2107 01:47:31.279 --> 01:47:34.680 missions with some of the Jaysak units right after that, 2108 01:47:34.760 --> 01:47:38.720 and then we had one that involved some chemical casualty 2109 01:47:38.720 --> 01:47:41.880 care and so they needed a medical liaison to work 2110 01:47:41.960 --> 01:47:45.479 with the Jaysak guys, and so. 2111 01:47:46.039 --> 01:47:48.159 I worked with them as the liaison. 2112 01:47:48.239 --> 01:47:52.399 And then after that for all the joint rotations and exercises, 2113 01:47:52.439 --> 01:47:55.039 they would request me to be the liaison. 2114 01:47:55.119 --> 01:47:58.239 You know, I was I had the SF experience. 2115 01:47:58.479 --> 01:47:59.760 I was a little bit older than a lot of 2116 01:47:59.760 --> 01:48:02.800 the guys that they might normally interface with, and so 2117 01:48:03.159 --> 01:48:06.479 they kind of treated me pretty well and would request 2118 01:48:06.520 --> 01:48:08.399 me to do that. So it turned out to be 2119 01:48:08.479 --> 01:48:11.760 a pretty good deal, you know, during those things. 2120 01:48:13.000 --> 01:48:15.760 One thing I'd like to ask you and the sense 2121 01:48:15.800 --> 01:48:19.560 I get from talking to guys, particularly the seventies into 2122 01:48:19.560 --> 01:48:22.039 the eighties and in your case in the nineties, that 2123 01:48:22.199 --> 01:48:25.399 back in the day before SF became a branch, back 2124 01:48:25.439 --> 01:48:29.840 before the Ranger regiment got very formalized and SF got 2125 01:48:29.920 --> 01:48:32.800 very formalized and use of SoC and so common everything 2126 01:48:33.279 --> 01:48:35.119 that back in the older days, it was a little 2127 01:48:35.159 --> 01:48:38.279 bit more possible for someone to bounce between the Rangers 2128 01:48:38.399 --> 01:48:43.000 and SF throughout their career. What do you think about 2129 01:48:43.000 --> 01:48:45.079 that kind of exchange. Do you think that that's like 2130 01:48:45.119 --> 01:48:48.560 a good healthy thing to have during a person's career progression. 2131 01:48:49.359 --> 01:48:53.319 So, you know what, it's one of those things that's 2132 01:48:53.399 --> 01:48:56.439 that's real experience. Experience being what you get when you 2133 01:48:56.600 --> 01:49:00.039 get something you don't necessarily ask for. And now I 2134 01:49:00.079 --> 01:49:02.800 went there, you know, to be honest, for the wrong reasons. 2135 01:49:02.840 --> 01:49:05.239 I went there to get out of going to civil affairs. 2136 01:49:05.840 --> 01:49:08.800 But it turned out to be really great experience for 2137 01:49:08.880 --> 01:49:12.000 me because the whole time I had been in SF, 2138 01:49:12.039 --> 01:49:15.520 I always got this you know, pushback and ridicule for 2139 01:49:15.600 --> 01:49:19.000 being an SF baby because I had no conventional experience 2140 01:49:19.000 --> 01:49:20.960 and people would, you know, shove that at me all 2141 01:49:21.000 --> 01:49:21.399 the time. 2142 01:49:22.039 --> 01:49:23.640 I never saw it as a problem. 2143 01:49:24.000 --> 01:49:25.800 But you know, the truth is, in the beginning it 2144 01:49:25.920 --> 01:49:28.239 was because I didn't have the experience that I should have, 2145 01:49:29.039 --> 01:49:31.800 uh to kind of start things. But it also gives 2146 01:49:31.800 --> 01:49:36.520 an interesting blend of perspective, right because I thought outside 2147 01:49:36.560 --> 01:49:38.760 the box because I'd never been in the box. So 2148 01:49:38.920 --> 01:49:42.039 it adds something to the team to have these perspectives 2149 01:49:42.520 --> 01:49:46.079 of guys that don't know the rules for doing what 2150 01:49:46.159 --> 01:49:49.920 you do, and you know, so sometimes you come up 2151 01:49:49.960 --> 01:49:52.800 with some crazy concepts on how things should be executed. 2152 01:49:53.640 --> 01:49:57.399 But it keeps your your thinking unconventional, which I think 2153 01:49:57.439 --> 01:49:59.840 is a really good thing. Now the other side of it, 2154 01:50:00.520 --> 01:50:03.840 I went to the Ranger Battalion, and man, you talk about. 2155 01:50:03.680 --> 01:50:06.000 Being out of your element because. 2156 01:50:07.319 --> 01:50:11.119 You know that they are at the time were ultra 2157 01:50:11.439 --> 01:50:15.720 conventional with the high and tight spits, seign boots all 2158 01:50:15.760 --> 01:50:20.199 the time, starts uniform everything. You know, dress right, dress, 2159 01:50:20.680 --> 01:50:23.680 and I was okay until we had formations or had 2160 01:50:23.680 --> 01:50:26.800 to do drill and ceremony, and you know how you 2161 01:50:26.840 --> 01:50:28.720 know how that is with an SF guy, I did 2162 01:50:28.760 --> 01:50:31.479 not shine. Those were not my great moments, Luckily there 2163 01:50:31.520 --> 01:50:35.520 were few and far between, but as far as going 2164 01:50:35.800 --> 01:50:39.520 into a position and actually doing getting some leadership experience 2165 01:50:40.279 --> 01:50:44.359 and having a little different look, as far as like, 2166 01:50:44.520 --> 01:50:48.239 you know what these young troops do, because man, they're serious, 2167 01:50:48.640 --> 01:50:52.920 highly motivated, and so I really enjoyed it. I got 2168 01:50:52.920 --> 01:50:55.840 some great leadership background out of it. I got some 2169 01:50:56.319 --> 01:50:59.880 huge appreciation for how wonderful SF is. When I came 2170 01:51:00.079 --> 01:51:02.880 back to SF after that, I realized, you know, what 2171 01:51:03.000 --> 01:51:07.520 a good deal it was. And the pace at the 2172 01:51:07.640 --> 01:51:11.520 Ranger Regiment is just NonStop, and it's even when you're 2173 01:51:11.680 --> 01:51:14.600 you know, you it's different in SF because you're deploying, 2174 01:51:14.640 --> 01:51:17.600 you're gone all the time, but a lot of times 2175 01:51:17.680 --> 01:51:20.840 when you're home you're kind of left alone. Well, the 2176 01:51:21.279 --> 01:51:23.800 range of battalion, you're never left alone, especially if you're 2177 01:51:23.840 --> 01:51:26.439 part of the leadership, because you've got all these young 2178 01:51:26.520 --> 01:51:29.039 kids to look after, to take care of you. You know, 2179 01:51:29.079 --> 01:51:31.079 you're bailing them out of jail, you're getting them out 2180 01:51:31.079 --> 01:51:34.079 of trouble, you're managing their whole lives, You're giving the 2181 01:51:34.239 --> 01:51:38.640 marriage counseling. So it's a lot of demand for leadership 2182 01:51:38.800 --> 01:51:41.600 and it's it's really great experience. It set me up 2183 01:51:41.640 --> 01:51:44.720 well to be a team sergeant and to appreciate how 2184 01:51:44.760 --> 01:51:47.319 good things are in SF. So you know, I didn't 2185 01:51:47.399 --> 01:51:50.600 see the bouncing back and forth because that happened like 2186 01:51:50.640 --> 01:51:54.439 probably right before I got in. When I got in, 2187 01:51:54.560 --> 01:51:56.800 like I said, I went to Fort Sam we had 2188 01:51:56.840 --> 01:52:00.560 some guys that had come from the Ranger Battalion and 2189 01:52:00.600 --> 01:52:03.479 mainly when I was in the initial medic course for 2190 01:52:03.720 --> 01:52:06.600 just combat medic there there was an s F guy 2191 01:52:06.600 --> 01:52:09.319 from seventh Group and a guy from the Ranger Battalion. 2192 01:52:09.359 --> 01:52:11.199 I still remember the guy from Ranger Battalion. His name 2193 01:52:11.199 --> 01:52:14.439 is Sartain Welch and uh, you know, so when I 2194 01:52:14.479 --> 01:52:16.920 got to the medic course, I really looked up to 2195 01:52:17.039 --> 01:52:18.800 those guys because I was like, man, that's what I 2196 01:52:18.840 --> 01:52:23.159 want to do. And the you know, it was nice 2197 01:52:23.279 --> 01:52:26.800 later to be able to come come full circle and 2198 01:52:26.880 --> 01:52:31.239 check that block and then go to you know, go 2199 01:52:31.319 --> 01:52:35.439 to SF training, be a Special Forces guy and then 2200 01:52:35.600 --> 01:52:38.960 go to Ranger Battalion. Even though it's kind of backasswords, 2201 01:52:39.000 --> 01:52:40.439 you know, which is maybe. 2202 01:52:40.239 --> 01:52:41.439 The way I do things anyway. 2203 01:52:42.079 --> 01:52:44.800 But it set me up to go down there and 2204 01:52:45.119 --> 01:52:49.000 you know, get that unique experience. And what made it 2205 01:52:49.359 --> 01:52:52.039 a little more challenging for me is I was an 2206 01:52:52.119 --> 01:52:54.520 SF guy down there without a ranger tab, so I 2207 01:52:54.600 --> 01:52:57.039 was not ranger qualified. While I was there, that have 2208 01:52:57.039 --> 01:53:00.279 gone over well, oh, they they did not love that. 2209 01:53:00.439 --> 01:53:03.920 And it was always interesting because you know, they always 2210 01:53:03.920 --> 01:53:05.760 did what we called sniffing. They were always trying to 2211 01:53:05.800 --> 01:53:08.680 look at your shoulder to see what you had. And 2212 01:53:08.720 --> 01:53:10.640 we used to even kind of tease them and always 2213 01:53:10.800 --> 01:53:13.039 rotate away from them, so they had to, you know, 2214 01:53:13.920 --> 01:53:16.279 they had to look for it. And luckily though, I 2215 01:53:16.359 --> 01:53:19.800 had an SF combat patch, so that gave me a 2216 01:53:19.840 --> 01:53:23.960 little bit of respect. But you know, inevitably, every now 2217 01:53:23.960 --> 01:53:26.399 and then they would mention the fact that, hey, hey, 2218 01:53:26.399 --> 01:53:28.359 sar Mac, you don't have a ranger tab. And I 2219 01:53:28.399 --> 01:53:29.760 was like, I don't need a ranger tab. I got 2220 01:53:29.880 --> 01:53:31.800 s F tab, I got D tab, you know, so 2221 01:53:32.039 --> 01:53:33.560 I had to give it back to him. But they 2222 01:53:33.560 --> 01:53:36.199 had a valid point, you know, I was missing a 2223 01:53:36.319 --> 01:53:40.159 key part of their identity. 2224 01:53:39.960 --> 01:53:42.319 Did you end up having to go to Ranger School. 2225 01:53:43.119 --> 01:53:46.199 So the deal when I went down there was supposed 2226 01:53:46.199 --> 01:53:48.279 to be for me to get to go to Ranger School. 2227 01:53:48.880 --> 01:53:50.920 And you know, so when I showed up down there, 2228 01:53:51.359 --> 01:53:52.359 it was all set up. 2229 01:53:52.399 --> 01:53:53.840 I was supposed to go to Ranger School. 2230 01:53:54.119 --> 01:53:56.119 I had a slot that was coming up, and that 2231 01:53:56.359 --> 01:54:00.600 they came to me and said, hey, the doctor. You know, 2232 01:54:00.680 --> 01:54:03.079 he's been here longer than you. He hasn't got to 2233 01:54:03.079 --> 01:54:05.680 go to Ranger School yet. We want to send to him, 2234 01:54:05.960 --> 01:54:07.359 you know. And I was like, well, you know, what 2235 01:54:07.399 --> 01:54:10.079 can I say? I mean, he's been here longer than me. Yeah, 2236 01:54:10.159 --> 01:54:11.760 I mean, it's fine, I'll go to the I'll go 2237 01:54:11.800 --> 01:54:15.479 to the next class. And so he went, and I 2238 01:54:15.479 --> 01:54:17.479 think at the time it was kind of it was 2239 01:54:17.520 --> 01:54:20.600 toward the winter, and after my Pakistan experience, I was like, sure. 2240 01:54:20.479 --> 01:54:23.920 Let him go to the winter class. Oh wait, but uh. 2241 01:54:24.359 --> 01:54:26.479 And then the next thing that happened, though, is right 2242 01:54:26.520 --> 01:54:29.399 after that, I came down with orders to go to 2243 01:54:29.439 --> 01:54:33.079 the the SF a knock, which you know, I needed 2244 01:54:33.399 --> 01:54:37.279 for promotion to E eight, and so I was like, well, 2245 01:54:37.479 --> 01:54:39.840 I got to go to that. So I wound up 2246 01:54:39.920 --> 01:54:43.800 choosing a knock at Fort Bragg over going to Ranger 2247 01:54:43.840 --> 01:54:45.880 school and then by the time I got back, I 2248 01:54:45.880 --> 01:54:48.399 didn't have enough time left to go, and so I 2249 01:54:48.439 --> 01:54:51.640 didn't get to go. I never went. And it's one 2250 01:54:51.680 --> 01:54:55.000 of those kind of, you know, bittersweet things. I wanted 2251 01:54:55.000 --> 01:54:59.319 to go, but evidently I wasn't meant to go. And 2252 01:54:59.319 --> 01:55:02.079 and you need do we got recycled a dozen times. 2253 01:55:02.359 --> 01:55:04.359 You needed a Knox so you could get promoted to 2254 01:55:04.399 --> 01:55:05.720 E eight and take a team. 2255 01:55:05.720 --> 01:55:07.079 Right, Yeah, I had to have it. 2256 01:55:07.520 --> 01:55:09.640 And then you know, I came back from a knock 2257 01:55:09.680 --> 01:55:12.319 and then not long after that, the E eight list 2258 01:55:12.399 --> 01:55:14.760 came out and so I was on the list and 2259 01:55:14.800 --> 01:55:16.239 my time was up at the Range of Battalion. 2260 01:55:17.079 --> 01:55:20.239 And what was it like going back to fifth group? 2261 01:55:20.239 --> 01:55:21.600 What was the team that you took? 2262 01:55:22.600 --> 01:55:23.640 So I went back. 2263 01:55:23.720 --> 01:55:26.119 Initially, one of the cool things about the Range of 2264 01:55:26.119 --> 01:55:29.680 Battalion is they live by the regulations. So if you 2265 01:55:29.760 --> 01:55:32.720 can dive into the regulations and find out how to 2266 01:55:32.760 --> 01:55:35.720 use them to your advantage, you are a master of 2267 01:55:35.760 --> 01:55:39.119 that domain. And in true SF style, I figured out 2268 01:55:39.159 --> 01:55:41.319 that one of the requirements they had because I was 2269 01:55:41.359 --> 01:55:44.439 an SF guy and I was getting language paid because 2270 01:55:44.479 --> 01:55:47.520 I was a two plus in Persian PARSI well, I 2271 01:55:47.560 --> 01:55:50.920 discovered that, hey, they have to send me to set 2272 01:55:50.960 --> 01:55:54.640 amount of language training every year. And I brought this 2273 01:55:54.760 --> 01:55:56.560 up and they're like, oh, as soon as they found out, 2274 01:55:56.680 --> 01:55:59.680 there was a scramble like you gotta go. You know, 2275 01:55:59.680 --> 01:56:01.319 we got get you signed off on this. You know, 2276 01:56:01.560 --> 01:56:03.560 we don't want to get in trouble with SOCOM or whatever. 2277 01:56:04.359 --> 01:56:06.960 And so they figured out that they didn't have a 2278 01:56:07.000 --> 01:56:10.319 Persian language program on Fort Benning, so I couldn't I 2279 01:56:10.319 --> 01:56:12.880 couldn't go there. And so they actually came back to 2280 01:56:12.880 --> 01:56:14.880 me and said, well, well, where are we gonna send you? 2281 01:56:14.760 --> 01:56:16.520 You know you're gonna go to Monterey whatever. 2282 01:56:16.560 --> 01:56:19.319 I said, well, you know, there's training at Fifth Group 2283 01:56:19.520 --> 01:56:23.079 and Fort Campbell, And so they sent me back to 2284 01:56:23.439 --> 01:56:27.079 a language immersion training for a month at Fifth Group 2285 01:56:27.680 --> 01:56:30.520 before I was about to head back to the you know, 2286 01:56:30.600 --> 01:56:33.279 to be reassigned a Fifth Group. And so when I 2287 01:56:33.319 --> 01:56:36.640 went back there, I started scoping out for a job. 2288 01:56:36.720 --> 01:56:38.600 I knew that, you know, I needed to find a 2289 01:56:38.840 --> 01:56:41.800 team startant position in order to have a place in 2290 01:56:41.840 --> 01:56:44.119 life when I got back. Was it turned out when 2291 01:56:44.159 --> 01:56:46.520 I came back, the guy that had been my team 2292 01:56:46.560 --> 01:56:49.239 startant for the Mounted Team, Dave Brace, was a company 2293 01:56:49.279 --> 01:56:52.199 start major and you know, as I was going around 2294 01:56:52.279 --> 01:56:54.239 kind of letting everybody know I was there, letting them 2295 01:56:54.239 --> 01:56:56.720 make fun of me with my ranger haircut after being 2296 01:56:56.720 --> 01:56:58.520 on the long hair team and my black beret and 2297 01:56:58.560 --> 01:57:00.399 give me, you know, a lot of crap about all that. 2298 01:57:01.079 --> 01:57:04.239 I ran into him and he said, hey, you know 2299 01:57:04.279 --> 01:57:05.680 what's going on? And I said, well, you know, I'm 2300 01:57:05.680 --> 01:57:10.319 just doing language training. I'm about done with my time 2301 01:57:10.359 --> 01:57:12.079 at rangeup of time, I'm going to be coming back 2302 01:57:12.119 --> 01:57:15.000 to fifth group. And he's like, oh, okay, really, you know, well, 2303 01:57:15.560 --> 01:57:17.359 i'd like you to take a team in the company. 2304 01:57:17.359 --> 01:57:21.399 And it was a company second Battalion and and I 2305 01:57:21.439 --> 01:57:23.800 was like, well, yeah, sure, what's the deal And he goes, well, 2306 01:57:24.199 --> 01:57:26.079 you know, I think you're perfect for it. And I 2307 01:57:26.119 --> 01:57:27.600 was like, well, wait a minute, what do you mean 2308 01:57:27.640 --> 01:57:29.960 what are you not telling me? So this team had 2309 01:57:29.960 --> 01:57:34.640 gotten in trouble and had two major incidents, right like 2310 01:57:34.800 --> 01:57:38.039 international level insidens. One of them was while they were 2311 01:57:38.079 --> 01:57:41.760 in While they were in Kuwait, they had decided that 2312 01:57:42.000 --> 01:57:45.279 they were going to exercise their redneck roots and driving 2313 01:57:45.319 --> 01:57:47.279 down the road and the humby they were going to 2314 01:57:47.359 --> 01:57:52.000 shoot road signs across the hood. Well, and doing that, 2315 01:57:52.119 --> 01:57:56.159 they actually you know, put around through the hood of 2316 01:57:56.279 --> 01:58:02.479 the humb and then they went back to KKMC and 2317 01:58:02.520 --> 01:58:04.479 as they were going through the gate, one of the 2318 01:58:04.600 --> 01:58:08.279 MPs noticed the bullet hole in the the hood and 2319 01:58:08.319 --> 01:58:11.079 asked him, well, hey, hey, what happened here, And one 2320 01:58:11.079 --> 01:58:14.479 of the guys, who was like a total dumbass, said, oh, 2321 01:58:14.560 --> 01:58:17.119 we took some fire up on the border. Well, that 2322 01:58:17.399 --> 01:58:19.479 quickly went up the chain and I think went all 2323 01:58:19.520 --> 01:58:24.119 the way to the president and it was a major incident, you. 2324 01:58:24.079 --> 01:58:26.399 Know, that wound up getting getting into a. 2325 01:58:26.399 --> 01:58:29.199 Couple guys relieved and really messed up the team. But 2326 01:58:29.279 --> 01:58:32.720 also somewhere in there they had another incident where they 2327 01:58:32.760 --> 01:58:38.439 were in Ethiopia and the team medic had died from 2328 01:58:38.520 --> 01:58:41.039 an overdose of ketamine. And and I don't know if 2329 01:58:41.079 --> 01:58:44.199 it was a suicide or if he was, you know, 2330 01:58:44.800 --> 01:58:47.960 using it as a as recreational drug and just overdose 2331 01:58:48.119 --> 01:58:48.479 or something. 2332 01:58:48.600 --> 01:58:50.800 It's you were you were a medic. Isn't it really 2333 01:58:50.880 --> 01:58:52.760 difficult to overdose on ketamine? 2334 01:58:53.319 --> 01:58:56.239 It's it's it's the only time I've ever heard of 2335 01:58:56.319 --> 01:58:59.960 it in in my entire medical career. It's not something 2336 01:59:00.119 --> 01:59:04.880 that that happens easily. But this was what I had 2337 01:59:04.880 --> 01:59:06.800 been told from coming back, and so I was like, man, 2338 01:59:06.880 --> 01:59:08.800 this is you know I was. I was talking to 2339 01:59:08.880 --> 01:59:10.720 my former team sergeant, the sart major, and I was like, 2340 01:59:10.800 --> 01:59:13.600 I don't know about this. This is a you know, 2341 01:59:13.640 --> 01:59:16.199 you're asking a lot. And I said, well, I'll do it, 2342 01:59:16.840 --> 01:59:18.319 you know, because I want to work with you. I 2343 01:59:18.319 --> 01:59:20.399 think you're awesome. You know, I trust you, but you're 2344 01:59:20.399 --> 01:59:22.399 going to have to back me up as the team sergeant. 2345 01:59:22.439 --> 01:59:24.319 And it sounds like, you know, I don't know if 2346 01:59:24.319 --> 01:59:25.720 all those guys are going to be able to stay 2347 01:59:25.760 --> 01:59:27.720 if I if I have a problem and I want 2348 01:59:27.760 --> 01:59:29.359 to kick somebody out, will you back me up? And 2349 01:59:29.399 --> 01:59:32.199 he's like, yeah, absolutely, you know, whatever you need, we'll 2350 01:59:32.199 --> 01:59:34.039 do it. I want you to come back and straighten 2351 01:59:34.039 --> 01:59:36.880 the team out. And so I was like, okay, I'll 2352 01:59:36.880 --> 01:59:40.600 do it. And when I came back. Initially I came 2353 01:59:40.640 --> 01:59:42.880 back and they put me on the B team and 2354 01:59:42.920 --> 01:59:46.119 then that deployed as the L and O for that 2355 01:59:46.279 --> 01:59:51.119 team on a you know, like a graded exercise so 2356 01:59:51.159 --> 01:59:53.479 that they were they were doing like a certification out 2357 01:59:53.479 --> 01:59:56.239 to el pass them. But nobody knew that I was 2358 01:59:56.279 --> 01:59:58.359 coming back to take over the team. They had another 2359 01:59:58.399 --> 02:00:01.399 team sergeant that had been there during you know, some 2360 02:00:01.439 --> 02:00:05.760 of these things that happened, and so I was kind 2361 02:00:05.760 --> 02:00:09.479 of you know, doing undercover boss thing and observing them, 2362 02:00:10.000 --> 02:00:11.199 working through them while they're in. 2363 02:00:11.199 --> 02:00:14.840 Isolation to fly out and deploy to El Paso. 2364 02:00:14.600 --> 02:00:17.479 And do these scut hunting missions, which you know I 2365 02:00:17.479 --> 02:00:20.600 had some experience with, especially after you know, at one 2366 02:00:20.600 --> 02:00:24.520 point we had done some joint you know, tactical development 2367 02:00:24.600 --> 02:00:27.399 with the CAG guys on scud hunting with the mobility, 2368 02:00:27.439 --> 02:00:30.479 So I had a good bit of background in that area. 2369 02:00:30.640 --> 02:00:33.039 And mainly I was just kind of observing them from 2370 02:00:33.079 --> 02:00:36.760 a leadership standpoint, an organizational standpoint, to see, you know what, 2371 02:00:36.960 --> 02:00:38.880 what's the problem with this team? What can I do? 2372 02:00:39.239 --> 02:00:41.119 What can I bring to the table to kind of 2373 02:00:41.159 --> 02:00:45.640 fix them? And so they also got at the time, 2374 02:00:45.640 --> 02:00:48.800 they got another warrant officer in who had worked with me, 2375 02:00:49.600 --> 02:00:52.560 uh you know, in the same company in Second Italian 2376 02:00:53.119 --> 02:00:55.800 in Charlie Company previously, so we knew each other as well. 2377 02:00:56.159 --> 02:00:57.439 He would have been a weapons guy. 2378 02:00:58.119 --> 02:01:00.880 I was there when he came in, and now he 2379 02:01:00.920 --> 02:01:03.359 had gone through the warrant course and was a warrant 2380 02:01:03.359 --> 02:01:07.079 officers a guy named Larry Corrigan, great guy, and so 2381 02:01:07.319 --> 02:01:09.880 you know, we were excited to be working together. You know, 2382 02:01:10.000 --> 02:01:12.319 he found out a little bit, you know, like right 2383 02:01:12.439 --> 02:01:14.319 after that deployment that I was going to be coming 2384 02:01:14.319 --> 02:01:17.960 to the team. And then not long after they finished 2385 02:01:17.960 --> 02:01:23.119 their evaluation and their deployment, they rotated the team starting 2386 02:01:23.159 --> 02:01:24.880 out and put me in and I took over the team. 2387 02:01:24.920 --> 02:01:26.479 So it was ODA five to four to two. 2388 02:01:27.720 --> 02:01:30.600 And so that was my first team as the team sergeant, 2389 02:01:30.880 --> 02:01:33.000 and turned out to be a really great team. 2390 02:01:33.039 --> 02:01:34.039 I had some great guys. 2391 02:01:34.520 --> 02:01:37.279 I was there probably about a week when I I 2392 02:01:37.319 --> 02:01:41.479 had to fire a guy. Uh and interesting enough, it 2393 02:01:41.520 --> 02:01:45.079 was the medic h you know. I came back and 2394 02:01:45.079 --> 02:01:47.920 and it was probably the wrong time to try to 2395 02:01:48.000 --> 02:01:49.680 challenge me because I'd just come from the Range of 2396 02:01:49.680 --> 02:01:52.239 Battalion and I spent the last two years like button 2397 02:01:52.319 --> 02:01:54.159 heads with those guys trying to prove. 2398 02:01:53.960 --> 02:01:55.279 That I was professional. 2399 02:01:55.279 --> 02:01:57.600 I knew what I was doing, so I had to 2400 02:01:57.720 --> 02:01:59.920 kind of learn a lot of this stuff by the book. 2401 02:02:00.039 --> 02:02:03.600 And when I came back, I'd spent time while I 2402 02:02:03.640 --> 02:02:05.960 was at the Range of time, I'd been an instructor 2403 02:02:06.000 --> 02:02:08.560 for one of their battalion wide combatives courses. 2404 02:02:08.880 --> 02:02:10.399 So I brought that back to the team. 2405 02:02:10.479 --> 02:02:12.079 I was that was going to be part of what 2406 02:02:12.159 --> 02:02:14.680 I did, and I came in with a real emphasis. 2407 02:02:15.079 --> 02:02:18.760 One of the things that we had that was part 2408 02:02:18.800 --> 02:02:21.239 of ROPE when we went through or the Ranger Inductionation 2409 02:02:21.399 --> 02:02:24.720 program is we were all sent to watch the classified 2410 02:02:25.119 --> 02:02:29.399 aerial video from Blackhawk down from the you know, where 2411 02:02:29.439 --> 02:02:33.600 the Sugrit and Gordon actually took the crash site and 2412 02:02:33.600 --> 02:02:36.479 and where they were overrun and killed. And so having 2413 02:02:36.600 --> 02:02:39.079 seen all that, it kind of put a new perspective 2414 02:02:39.159 --> 02:02:41.880 on things for me as far as, hey, we need 2415 02:02:41.880 --> 02:02:47.560 to be taking things really seriously, as far as you know, shooting, communicating, 2416 02:02:48.199 --> 02:02:51.920 you know, unarmed combat because bullets, you know, magazines run 2417 02:02:51.960 --> 02:02:53.279 out and sometimes you don't. 2418 02:02:53.119 --> 02:02:53.800 Have another option. 2419 02:02:54.239 --> 02:02:56.399 So I was pretty gung ho on all those kind 2420 02:02:56.439 --> 02:03:00.319 of things, starting with fitness, you know, shooting, combat Adams, 2421 02:03:00.359 --> 02:03:02.720 those were my directors for the team as I really 2422 02:03:02.720 --> 02:03:06.279 came in wanting to make it the most professional I could. 2423 02:03:07.079 --> 02:03:10.560 And so when I first came in and took over, 2424 02:03:10.720 --> 02:03:12.279 one of the things I did was I made sure 2425 02:03:12.319 --> 02:03:15.960 everybody had their their d bags packed, you know, packing list. 2426 02:03:16.000 --> 02:03:18.640 I went through all the basic stuff right, here's packing list. 2427 02:03:19.079 --> 02:03:21.439 Make sure you have this. Okay, we're gonna do all 2428 02:03:21.439 --> 02:03:23.800 the layouts for the equipment. I didn't need to see 2429 02:03:23.840 --> 02:03:26.680 the medical gear all that stuff. And you know, I 2430 02:03:26.760 --> 02:03:30.680 kind of got a little pushback initially, and so I 2431 02:03:31.359 --> 02:03:33.640 used an old trick that I learned, and I set 2432 02:03:33.680 --> 02:03:37.960 it up for Friday. And so, you know, a couple 2433 02:03:37.960 --> 02:03:39.960 of guys got it together, and so what I did 2434 02:03:40.000 --> 02:03:43.359 is I checked their gear. Everything looked good. It's Friday morning. 2435 02:03:43.439 --> 02:03:45.880 Right after pet I dismissed him for the weekend, I 2436 02:03:45.880 --> 02:03:48.199 was like, okay, take off. I got to you know, 2437 02:03:48.239 --> 02:03:50.359 I had two other guys. I got to one who 2438 02:03:50.479 --> 02:03:53.439 was the medic, and he, you know, kind of blew 2439 02:03:53.520 --> 02:03:56.239 me off. And I'd already given my introductory spiel that hey, look, 2440 02:03:56.359 --> 02:03:59.359 you know, I know it's a new environment, new change, 2441 02:03:59.399 --> 02:04:01.239 this is what we're gonna doing. This is what I expect. 2442 02:04:01.600 --> 02:04:04.640 If it doesn't fit for you, let me know, come 2443 02:04:04.720 --> 02:04:08.079 see me. I'll find you another place in SF. And 2444 02:04:08.119 --> 02:04:11.039 so when I started looking at the medical stuff, it 2445 02:04:11.159 --> 02:04:13.079 was just it was a mess. The guy was as 2446 02:04:13.159 --> 02:04:16.279 unprofessional as he could be, and he basically told me, 2447 02:04:16.920 --> 02:04:18.439 you know, like, well, hey, you don't think this is 2448 02:04:18.439 --> 02:04:19.920 going to work out. And I was like, okay, grab 2449 02:04:19.960 --> 02:04:21.520 your stuff, and I took him down the hall right 2450 02:04:21.560 --> 02:04:23.760 away to see the Star Major and I say, hey, 2451 02:04:23.800 --> 02:04:26.520 Sar Major, I want this guy off my team. And he, 2452 02:04:26.680 --> 02:04:30.079 you know, true to his word, Dave Brace backed me up. 2453 02:04:30.359 --> 02:04:32.479 He was gone by the end of the day. And 2454 02:04:32.760 --> 02:04:33.720 you know that that was it. 2455 02:04:33.800 --> 02:04:34.479 And you that we. 2456 02:04:34.600 --> 02:04:38.960 Mentioned earlier talking about the guy who had gotten blown 2457 02:04:39.039 --> 02:04:42.399 up in Somalia in the vehicle with the landmine, Well, 2458 02:04:42.479 --> 02:04:45.439 this guy I believe was in the vehicle with him 2459 02:04:45.439 --> 02:04:48.920 when that happened. So you know, I really hated to 2460 02:04:49.000 --> 02:04:51.079 kind of kick him off the team, but his attitude 2461 02:04:51.399 --> 02:04:53.439 was just he was done, he was burnt out. 2462 02:04:53.840 --> 02:04:57.920 He didn't he didn't want to do anything challenging. Part 2463 02:04:57.960 --> 02:04:58.479 of the problem. 2464 02:04:58.720 --> 02:05:00.720 I'd like to ask you what were sort of the 2465 02:05:00.800 --> 02:05:04.920 leadership problems or the organizational problems that you identified on 2466 02:05:04.960 --> 02:05:07.760 that team. Obviously, firing that guy was kind of the 2467 02:05:07.760 --> 02:05:10.039 first step of laying down the law. Well what did 2468 02:05:10.039 --> 02:05:12.159 you kind of have to do over the months to 2469 02:05:12.199 --> 02:05:13.439 get that team turned around. 2470 02:05:14.399 --> 02:05:16.239 So the biggest thing when I went in is because 2471 02:05:16.279 --> 02:05:19.039 these guys had gone through these incidents, they had some 2472 02:05:19.079 --> 02:05:21.800 guys that were brand new, and then they had a 2473 02:05:21.800 --> 02:05:23.880 few guys with a little bit of experience. So overall 2474 02:05:23.920 --> 02:05:26.800 they were a pretty young team. But the guys that 2475 02:05:27.279 --> 02:05:31.399 had been there, you know, there there, you know, EGO 2476 02:05:31.560 --> 02:05:34.079 was crushed. They just felt like losers because they've been 2477 02:05:34.159 --> 02:05:36.279 part of this team and they'd been labeled because of 2478 02:05:36.359 --> 02:05:39.159 these incidents that they were just a bunch of losers. 2479 02:05:39.359 --> 02:05:41.960 So they had no pride in themselves, you know. 2480 02:05:42.159 --> 02:05:44.119 And so we started with just the basics, you know, 2481 02:05:44.159 --> 02:05:46.439 we came in, we started doing you know, intense pt 2482 02:05:47.399 --> 02:05:49.439 and started building the guys up, and I kind of 2483 02:05:49.520 --> 02:05:51.600 let them know, you know, I tried to use a 2484 02:05:51.720 --> 02:05:54.840 very incentive based program. I put out you know, a 2485 02:05:54.880 --> 02:05:57.279 school's OML or a merit list right away so that 2486 02:05:57.319 --> 02:05:59.199 they knew, hey, these are the things you're working for. 2487 02:05:59.600 --> 02:06:01.560 And some of them were new, and I, you know, 2488 02:06:01.640 --> 02:06:03.880 I did all the the basic things of. 2489 02:06:04.000 --> 02:06:05.439 Just you know, counseling. 2490 02:06:05.960 --> 02:06:08.560 So I came in, sat down with all the guys 2491 02:06:08.680 --> 02:06:12.479 within that thirty days, initially did initial counseling. I was 2492 02:06:12.520 --> 02:06:15.399 real clear coming from the range of battalion about like, hey, 2493 02:06:15.439 --> 02:06:18.239 this is what I expect, you know. I handed out 2494 02:06:18.279 --> 02:06:21.119 all the the items of, Hey, this is what the 2495 02:06:21.159 --> 02:06:22.960 team's going to be about. And I really just kind 2496 02:06:22.960 --> 02:06:25.039 of started off by telling them this is going to 2497 02:06:25.039 --> 02:06:27.640 be the best damn team in fifth group, and you know, 2498 02:06:27.720 --> 02:06:30.039 that was my approach. I wanted to do that, and 2499 02:06:30.119 --> 02:06:32.159 I also kind of let them know that, look, I 2500 02:06:32.239 --> 02:06:35.800 understand you guys had it tough before. You know, I've 2501 02:06:35.800 --> 02:06:37.399 been in fifth group a long time. I got a 2502 02:06:37.439 --> 02:06:40.239 lot of experience here. It's a great place to be. 2503 02:06:40.520 --> 02:06:42.479 You just haven't seen it yet. And I understand because 2504 02:06:42.479 --> 02:06:44.479 when I first got the fifth group, I didn't think 2505 02:06:44.479 --> 02:06:46.960 it was great either, but I you know, it took 2506 02:06:47.039 --> 02:06:49.840 some time for somebody to show me that. And then 2507 02:06:49.880 --> 02:06:52.399 I just kind of started making sure that we went 2508 02:06:52.479 --> 02:06:55.039 through all the basic steps to make sure the guys 2509 02:06:55.039 --> 02:06:57.199 were dialed in and they were brilliant at the basics. 2510 02:06:57.479 --> 02:07:00.640 That's really what we focused on. And after probably about 2511 02:07:00.680 --> 02:07:03.720 three months, they started to really kind of dial in 2512 02:07:03.760 --> 02:07:06.039 and get like, you know, a sense of pride. And 2513 02:07:06.079 --> 02:07:09.000 part of that came initially from the fact that every 2514 02:07:09.039 --> 02:07:12.760 Tuesday and Thursday I had him doing combatives. We were 2515 02:07:12.760 --> 02:07:16.920 doing military combatives, and initially it didn't go over well. 2516 02:07:16.960 --> 02:07:19.640 The first couple of times because the first time, you know, 2517 02:07:19.640 --> 02:07:21.239 I went through a real quick lesson of what we 2518 02:07:21.319 --> 02:07:24.840 call the punching drill. You know, you trade punches, and 2519 02:07:24.920 --> 02:07:29.279 I did this drill called offense versus defense. And for 2520 02:07:29.359 --> 02:07:32.640 the first minute, if your offense you can punch and 2521 02:07:32.680 --> 02:07:34.039 the other guy can't punch you back. 2522 02:07:34.079 --> 02:07:36.119 All he can do is block and evade and defend. 2523 02:07:36.840 --> 02:07:37.720 And then you switch. 2524 02:07:38.479 --> 02:07:40.680 The other guy gets to be offense and punch, and 2525 02:07:40.720 --> 02:07:43.640 then the last minute it's both ways, so you guys 2526 02:07:43.680 --> 02:07:45.760 get to you know, to go at it pretty hard. 2527 02:07:46.159 --> 02:07:46.319 Well. 2528 02:07:46.359 --> 02:07:48.920 I used a card system to where you could draw cards, 2529 02:07:48.920 --> 02:07:51.640 and I kind of stacked the deck. And the another 2530 02:07:51.680 --> 02:07:53.720 part of it is they had a real young team leader. 2531 02:07:53.800 --> 02:07:57.680 He had just gotten there and the you know, his 2532 02:07:57.840 --> 02:08:01.159 young captain, and I think it was his first deployment 2533 02:08:01.199 --> 02:08:04.279 when one of these things happened. So they didn't relieve 2534 02:08:04.359 --> 02:08:07.319 him because you know, he really hadn't been there that long. 2535 02:08:07.640 --> 02:08:10.680 But I think it hurt his his ego as well. 2536 02:08:10.720 --> 02:08:13.199 He didn't really know his place in it. And so 2537 02:08:13.760 --> 02:08:16.760 I stacked the cards for sparring and I made sure 2538 02:08:16.800 --> 02:08:20.479 that I went up against the captain and and to 2539 02:08:20.520 --> 02:08:23.279 be honest, I nailed him. And I videoed the whole 2540 02:08:23.319 --> 02:08:25.760 all of the training. I still have the videos, and 2541 02:08:26.159 --> 02:08:28.119 you know, so I kicked him in the head. You know, 2542 02:08:28.319 --> 02:08:30.560 I made it a pretty rugged experience for the guys 2543 02:08:30.600 --> 02:08:32.800 that hey, you know, we're serious. And then after that, 2544 02:08:32.880 --> 02:08:34.840 you know, I took him aside and I let him know, listen, 2545 02:08:35.079 --> 02:08:37.119 you know, you and I are a team. We're gonna 2546 02:08:37.119 --> 02:08:41.239 make these guys really you know, professional, We're gonna you know, 2547 02:08:41.239 --> 02:08:44.279 we're gonna be warriors, not just guys that sit around 2548 02:08:44.319 --> 02:08:47.319 the team room. And so once I kind of convinced 2549 02:08:47.359 --> 02:08:49.119 him that that was going to be the new attitude 2550 02:08:49.119 --> 02:08:51.199 of the team, a lot of the guys started to 2551 02:08:51.239 --> 02:08:53.920 buy into it. They got their pride back, they started 2552 02:08:53.960 --> 02:08:55.960 really digging into their job, and we got a couple 2553 02:08:56.000 --> 02:08:58.560 of brand new guys as that was happening, and it 2554 02:08:58.640 --> 02:09:00.680 kind of turned the team around. And I had a 2555 02:09:00.720 --> 02:09:03.119 lot of support from you know, the other guy that 2556 02:09:03.199 --> 02:09:04.520 was a one officer, Larry Corgan. 2557 02:09:04.600 --> 02:09:08.399 He and I knew each other really well and you know. 2558 02:09:08.399 --> 02:09:12.000 Worked together really well as far as establishing some strong 2559 02:09:12.079 --> 02:09:14.920 leadership because he came in like just before I did, 2560 02:09:14.960 --> 02:09:17.800 so we had a new leadership component. We kind of 2561 02:09:17.840 --> 02:09:20.520 got the captain on board with us, and then the 2562 02:09:20.600 --> 02:09:22.279 team started to gel after that. 2563 02:09:23.640 --> 02:09:26.439 That's pretty cool and did uh you get to take 2564 02:09:26.479 --> 02:09:27.520 that team abroad at all? 2565 02:09:28.520 --> 02:09:32.079 Yeah, we actually got to to go. We got several 2566 02:09:32.159 --> 02:09:34.880 pretty good missions. We did one trip that was pretty 2567 02:09:34.920 --> 02:09:40.359 cool to Jordan where we actually did some we did 2568 02:09:40.600 --> 02:09:44.640 some live fire call for fire with a B one 2569 02:09:44.680 --> 02:09:48.479 bomber and uh, you know, we did a complete navigation 2570 02:09:48.640 --> 02:09:52.399 through Waddie Rum with the with the Jordanian forces and 2571 02:09:52.439 --> 02:09:55.399 then hit a live fire target and called the B 2572 02:09:55.520 --> 02:09:58.399 one cast in on it. We went, uh, let's see, 2573 02:09:58.439 --> 02:10:03.399 we went to u to cut her together. We did 2574 02:10:03.439 --> 02:10:07.079 a six month rotation in Kuwait as well, so we 2575 02:10:07.159 --> 02:10:09.399 got to do quite a bit of stuff and that 2576 02:10:09.479 --> 02:10:12.479 all kind of fed into the team developing as well, 2577 02:10:12.520 --> 02:10:17.800 because we we earned a couple of missions like after that, 2578 02:10:17.920 --> 02:10:19.399 you know, we had to brief back for a couple 2579 02:10:19.359 --> 02:10:22.239 of things and actually got awarded the mission, and the 2580 02:10:22.279 --> 02:10:25.640 guys started getting some real pride in what they were 2581 02:10:25.640 --> 02:10:26.199 capable of. 2582 02:10:27.640 --> 02:10:30.479 And I guess because you did a pretty good job 2583 02:10:30.520 --> 02:10:32.800 turning the team around, they gave you a second one. 2584 02:10:34.359 --> 02:10:35.880 Well it worked out really well. 2585 02:10:35.960 --> 02:10:39.479 So after that we changed sardin Majors, and I was 2586 02:10:39.560 --> 02:10:42.279 blessed to get another awesome Sartin Major, a guy by 2587 02:10:42.279 --> 02:10:45.000 the name of Kip Hopkemeyer who was just you know, 2588 02:10:45.479 --> 02:10:48.920 like another Stellar at the time. He was another legend 2589 02:10:48.920 --> 02:10:53.279 in fifth group that had been there forever. And the 2590 02:10:53.319 --> 02:10:58.720 whole time I'd been working on convincing the group to 2591 02:10:59.359 --> 02:11:03.800 really get my this combatives program. And so I had, 2592 02:11:04.000 --> 02:11:07.359 you know, been taking a couple guys from my team 2593 02:11:07.399 --> 02:11:10.399 and we were going and training with the Gracis you 2594 02:11:10.439 --> 02:11:13.680 know that created the UFC and stuff like that, and 2595 02:11:13.720 --> 02:11:15.760 then we would come back. I was training my team 2596 02:11:15.920 --> 02:11:18.479 and then we would also invite and train other teams 2597 02:11:18.960 --> 02:11:24.000 with that, and you know, I convinced the Sardin Majors 2598 02:11:24.159 --> 02:11:27.720 to support me on that. And then because I had 2599 02:11:27.760 --> 02:11:32.439 that background, you know, I had expressed some interest, they 2600 02:11:32.439 --> 02:11:33.720 were asking me, well, hey, what do you want to 2601 02:11:33.760 --> 02:11:35.520 do next, you know, and they tried to talk me 2602 02:11:35.560 --> 02:11:38.720 into taking support company and doing a lot of other 2603 02:11:38.760 --> 02:11:41.079 things because they were trying to track me for Sartin Major. 2604 02:11:41.119 --> 02:11:42.760 And I was like, well, you know, I really loved 2605 02:11:42.760 --> 02:11:45.479 being a team sergeant. I wish I could do it longer. 2606 02:11:45.840 --> 02:11:48.159 And it just came up that one of those special 2607 02:11:48.159 --> 02:11:51.279 Projects teams. It's the joint team that is actually two 2608 02:11:51.319 --> 02:11:55.960 odas combined, and that was going to be a vacant position. 2609 02:11:56.039 --> 02:12:00.479 And because I had the special projects experience before, I 2610 02:12:00.520 --> 02:12:04.680 also had all that interface and interaction with the guys 2611 02:12:04.680 --> 02:12:09.079 from KAG from both my time at Ranger Battalion and UH, 2612 02:12:09.319 --> 02:12:14.640 you know, the the joint training we'd done for this, the. 2613 02:12:13.840 --> 02:12:18.560 Mobility development the UH to go with that. 2614 02:12:19.800 --> 02:12:24.119 The team that was in question had actually been in 2615 02:12:24.159 --> 02:12:27.920 the Kenyan Embassy when when it was bombed, and so 2616 02:12:28.800 --> 02:12:30.600 you know, these guys were going to a lot of 2617 02:12:30.640 --> 02:12:35.439 places and winding up in some pretty you know, hazardous 2618 02:12:35.520 --> 02:12:37.720 environments and most of the time they didn't have the 2619 02:12:37.760 --> 02:12:41.760 benefit of weapons. So this kind of fed into the 2620 02:12:41.800 --> 02:12:44.880 idea of me working with all the unarmed and knife 2621 02:12:44.920 --> 02:12:48.760 combat stuff. And so this arm major you know, talk 2622 02:12:48.840 --> 02:12:51.039 to me and asked me, you know how I felt 2623 02:12:51.039 --> 02:12:52.600 about that, and I said, wow, that that would be 2624 02:12:52.960 --> 02:12:55.039 an honor. I'd love to do it. You know, I 2625 02:12:55.079 --> 02:12:58.439 can't think of anything better. If you consider me, I 2626 02:12:58.479 --> 02:13:00.479 would definitely, you know, I really appreciate it. 2627 02:13:00.479 --> 02:13:01.319 I'd be up for that. 2628 02:13:01.840 --> 02:13:04.199 And so I got put on the short list and 2629 02:13:04.279 --> 02:13:08.000 considered for it, and they selected me to go run 2630 02:13:08.359 --> 02:13:10.800 that other special projects team, which was a joint team 2631 02:13:10.800 --> 02:13:11.840 of two odas. 2632 02:13:12.399 --> 02:13:16.560 That's pretty cool. It's awesome that it sounds like your 2633 02:13:16.640 --> 02:13:18.199 job was kind of like getting the rest of the 2634 02:13:18.239 --> 02:13:19.760 group trained up on these skills. 2635 02:13:21.039 --> 02:13:24.560 So I had made it my personal endeavor, you know, 2636 02:13:24.600 --> 02:13:27.359 as far as the combatives because at the time it 2637 02:13:27.560 --> 02:13:30.119 wasn't a popular concept for the whole group. In fact, 2638 02:13:30.159 --> 02:13:33.000 there was a lot of resistance to it. Initially, we 2639 02:13:33.039 --> 02:13:36.199 didn't even have like a room to train in we 2640 02:13:36.279 --> 02:13:38.600 started out. I would take my guys to the squash 2641 02:13:38.720 --> 02:13:41.039 court at one of the gyms and we'd sign it 2642 02:13:41.079 --> 02:13:43.760 out and use it to do the combatives training. So 2643 02:13:43.800 --> 02:13:45.880 we had a hardwood floor. We weren't doing much ground 2644 02:13:45.920 --> 02:13:49.840 stuff yet. And then the guy that was a warrant officer, 2645 02:13:50.119 --> 02:13:54.079 Larry Corgan, his daughter was heavily into gymnastics and so 2646 02:13:54.800 --> 02:13:59.880 he was an assistant coach for his daughter's gymnastics place, 2647 02:14:00.600 --> 02:14:03.600 and he got it worked out for us to be 2648 02:14:03.680 --> 02:14:06.159 able to use the gymnastics place at six in the 2649 02:14:06.159 --> 02:14:09.640 morning on Tuesday and Thursday. This place called Tumbletown, so 2650 02:14:10.560 --> 02:14:13.079 that's where we were going. What's funny about it is 2651 02:14:13.119 --> 02:14:15.640 Now Larry is in Clarksville and owns probably one of 2652 02:14:15.720 --> 02:14:20.119 the biggest gymnastics gyms in the United States. He's he's 2653 02:14:20.239 --> 02:14:24.079 huge in the gymnastics world. But so he set us 2654 02:14:24.159 --> 02:14:27.880 up to go take the guys and train in the 2655 02:14:28.760 --> 02:14:32.119 gymnastics area with the padded floor, and then we kind 2656 02:14:32.119 --> 02:14:35.319 of worked out a side deal to where we signed 2657 02:14:35.319 --> 02:14:37.640 out a room in the is effect and we laid 2658 02:14:37.680 --> 02:14:41.119 down some foam, went to d r m O, the 2659 02:14:41.159 --> 02:14:45.000 Defense Reutilization you know, complex, and got a big sheet 2660 02:14:45.000 --> 02:14:47.640 of canvas and then duct taped it over that and 2661 02:14:47.680 --> 02:14:52.439 we were doing this makeshift matt was our training area 2662 02:14:52.920 --> 02:14:55.079 for combatives in our isolation facility. 2663 02:14:55.560 --> 02:14:56.359 We kind of set. 2664 02:14:56.199 --> 02:15:00.479 Up from the fact was still there when IAT that room, 2665 02:15:00.520 --> 02:15:02.720 that combative's room in the ISO fact was still there 2666 02:15:02.720 --> 02:15:05.039 at least when I showed up around like two thousand 2667 02:15:05.079 --> 02:15:05.960 and seven. 2668 02:15:06.880 --> 02:15:10.800 Yeah, So so we did the makeshift room and we 2669 02:15:10.960 --> 02:15:12.600 kind of laid it out so that one day we 2670 02:15:12.640 --> 02:15:15.399 had a visiting general I think it was from Yusufic 2671 02:15:15.920 --> 02:15:17.960 and he was taken he was doing a tour with 2672 02:15:18.800 --> 02:15:22.600 the group commander and we weren't supposed to be there, 2673 02:15:22.600 --> 02:15:24.039 but we made sure we had a few guys in 2674 02:15:24.079 --> 02:15:26.800 their training and we had a guy standing outside, and 2675 02:15:27.159 --> 02:15:29.640 when the General started walking by, we opened kind of 2676 02:15:29.680 --> 02:15:32.239 opened up the door and went through a little like, 2677 02:15:32.680 --> 02:15:35.199 you know, pre rehearsed routine we were doing to make 2678 02:15:35.239 --> 02:15:37.840 it look good. And so the general came in saw 2679 02:15:37.880 --> 02:15:40.079 what we were doing and he asked the group commander. 2680 02:15:40.159 --> 02:15:41.880 He's like, you know, he's talking to us. He goes, oh, 2681 02:15:42.079 --> 02:15:44.600 how come you guys are training on this this canvas 2682 02:15:44.560 --> 02:15:46.560 and saying, well, hey, that's all we got, sir. And 2683 02:15:46.600 --> 02:15:48.720 so he put the group commander on the spot and say, hey, 2684 02:15:48.760 --> 02:15:51.359 these guys needed a training room. You know, I'll pay half, 2685 02:15:51.359 --> 02:15:53.199 but you're gonna have to fund the other half. The 2686 02:15:53.199 --> 02:15:55.880 group commander was pissed. He was super pissed because we 2687 02:15:56.319 --> 02:15:58.880 committed him for this money. He wasn't really happy about it. 2688 02:15:59.439 --> 02:16:04.079 But we wound up from that getting a dedicated combatives room, 2689 02:16:04.079 --> 02:16:05.880 which is probably the one you saw with the green 2690 02:16:06.439 --> 02:16:09.640 wrestling mats and the fifth group logo or like writing 2691 02:16:09.680 --> 02:16:10.000 on it. 2692 02:16:11.439 --> 02:16:14.479 I had set that up red mats on the walls 2693 02:16:14.520 --> 02:16:15.760 maybe if I remember now. 2694 02:16:15.840 --> 02:16:17.840 That was the second one in the UH that was 2695 02:16:17.880 --> 02:16:22.279 in the the medical therapeutic center because it couldn't be 2696 02:16:22.359 --> 02:16:23.720 called a combative's room or something. 2697 02:16:23.800 --> 02:16:27.640 Shit, is it? Damn? Maybe you're right, Well you'd know 2698 02:16:27.680 --> 02:16:28.399 better than I would. 2699 02:16:30.000 --> 02:16:32.719 Well, my memory's not not always that good anymore. 2700 02:16:32.719 --> 02:16:37.360 But initially we had these dark green wrestling mats that 2701 02:16:37.559 --> 02:16:40.000 you know, I worked a deal to get them wholesale, 2702 02:16:40.559 --> 02:16:42.760 and they're they're brand new. But we put them in there, 2703 02:16:43.000 --> 02:16:45.399 and we had like a rope along one edge, you know, 2704 02:16:45.440 --> 02:16:47.799 so it looked kind of like a ring. And then 2705 02:16:48.159 --> 02:16:50.360 we had the padded walls and everything. So we finally 2706 02:16:50.399 --> 02:16:53.440 got a combatis room that we were able to train in, 2707 02:16:53.840 --> 02:16:56.760 and so, you know, I kept taking my team there, 2708 02:16:56.799 --> 02:16:59.000 even with the Special Project guys. I would take them 2709 02:16:59.000 --> 02:17:02.079 there on Tuesdays and third days, and we would invite 2710 02:17:02.120 --> 02:17:05.760 other teams to train with us. And by this time, 2711 02:17:06.200 --> 02:17:10.280 I had put the program I developed into an actual 2712 02:17:10.319 --> 02:17:12.360 training manual, so I had it laid out. That's how 2713 02:17:12.399 --> 02:17:15.600 I convinced the command to let me to pay for 2714 02:17:15.680 --> 02:17:18.040 me to go train with the Gracies. And then we 2715 02:17:18.079 --> 02:17:22.079 actually brought you know, Horiy and Gracie in for a 2716 02:17:22.120 --> 02:17:24.360 week of training to teach the guys and do an 2717 02:17:24.360 --> 02:17:28.200 instructor course. In June of two thousand and one, so 2718 02:17:28.319 --> 02:17:33.479 right before nine to eleven kicked off, and then so 2719 02:17:34.280 --> 02:17:36.920 and we were actually in the training room. I was 2720 02:17:36.959 --> 02:17:39.639 in that room teaching combatives and working with my guys 2721 02:17:39.719 --> 02:17:42.680 on nine to eleven when the plane struck the towers 2722 02:17:42.680 --> 02:17:46.000 and the Pentagon and went down in Pennsylvania. 2723 02:17:46.239 --> 02:17:48.399 And I mean that kicked things off for fifth Group 2724 02:17:48.399 --> 02:17:49.639 in a big way obviously. 2725 02:17:49.879 --> 02:17:51.120 Oh yeah, absolutely. 2726 02:17:51.159 --> 02:17:54.040 So up until then I was kind of on the 2727 02:17:54.079 --> 02:17:57.799 downhill cycle of finishing up my team startin time. I 2728 02:17:57.840 --> 02:18:00.639 think I might have had maybe six months months left 2729 02:18:00.680 --> 02:18:04.680 at the most with the Special Projects team starting job, 2730 02:18:05.239 --> 02:18:07.360 and they had worked it out. I was going to 2731 02:18:07.399 --> 02:18:10.159 become the ice of fact manager, the hotel managers what 2732 02:18:10.159 --> 02:18:12.639 they used to always call it, and then I would 2733 02:18:12.799 --> 02:18:14.799 do the training for all the teams in the group. 2734 02:18:15.719 --> 02:18:18.239 And there was some discussion even that, hey, you know, 2735 02:18:18.600 --> 02:18:20.840 we'd even like to turn this into a civilian position 2736 02:18:20.959 --> 02:18:24.040 for you afterwards, you know, after you retire, because I 2737 02:18:24.040 --> 02:18:27.879 was getting close to retirement, and they, you know, that 2738 02:18:28.000 --> 02:18:30.559 was kind of the plan. I had my life all 2739 02:18:30.600 --> 02:18:32.920 figured out and then the planes crashed, and then that 2740 02:18:33.040 --> 02:18:37.559 day everything spun up. Everybody started, you know, like packing up, 2741 02:18:37.719 --> 02:18:40.959 loading out and getting ready to figure out what we're 2742 02:18:40.959 --> 02:18:43.840 going to do next to resolve that issue. 2743 02:18:43.600 --> 02:18:46.159 And where did that take you and your team? 2744 02:18:46.520 --> 02:18:49.719 So our team right away we locked down the first 2745 02:18:49.799 --> 02:18:54.760 day and started getting you know, doing teleconference calls with 2746 02:18:54.920 --> 02:19:00.799 so calm, and then the leadership like immediately told to 2747 02:19:01.799 --> 02:19:05.760 McDill to do some command planning with them and figure 2748 02:19:05.760 --> 02:19:07.360 out like how that was going to work for us. 2749 02:19:07.959 --> 02:19:12.680 And then we we kept some missions that were still 2750 02:19:12.760 --> 02:19:15.040 involved as part of the rotation. 2751 02:19:15.680 --> 02:19:16.079 We went. 2752 02:19:16.920 --> 02:19:21.440 The interesting part about it is we were actually in Pashawer, 2753 02:19:21.520 --> 02:19:25.479 Pakistan along the Afghan border in June of two thousand 2754 02:19:25.479 --> 02:19:28.159 and one, so right before the incident, and at the 2755 02:19:28.200 --> 02:19:31.319 time we were working with the the you know, we 2756 02:19:31.399 --> 02:19:34.680 had some things working with the State Department then the 2757 02:19:34.719 --> 02:19:37.959 embassy there that were related to trying to figure out 2758 02:19:38.000 --> 02:19:41.479 where Osama bin Laden was. But you know, we had 2759 02:19:41.639 --> 02:19:44.239 a pretty minor role overall, but we were in there 2760 02:19:44.799 --> 02:19:49.159 as part of that mission anyway, and then we spun up, 2761 02:19:49.360 --> 02:19:52.559 went to mcdial and then we went on a couple 2762 02:19:52.600 --> 02:19:58.000 other deployments that were in that were located in surrounding countries, 2763 02:19:58.319 --> 02:20:05.879 mostly north of Afghanistan and uh Kazakhstan. Kyrgystan, and then 2764 02:20:06.120 --> 02:20:09.639 uh also Turkmenistan. So we were in several of those 2765 02:20:09.760 --> 02:20:11.239 areas there throughout that time. 2766 02:20:12.879 --> 02:20:15.440 I mean, and that's kind of a I mean, it 2767 02:20:15.520 --> 02:20:17.680 still is a bit of a wild West in some 2768 02:20:17.719 --> 02:20:18.479 of those places. 2769 02:20:19.520 --> 02:20:21.920 Yeah, it's a it's a really interesting part of the world. 2770 02:20:21.959 --> 02:20:24.799 I mean, you got the extremes. You got Kazakhstan, which 2771 02:20:24.840 --> 02:20:28.360 is like New York City with everybody speaking Russian. Uh, 2772 02:20:28.399 --> 02:20:31.120 you know, the capital there is a major city and 2773 02:20:31.159 --> 02:20:34.680 it's it's kind of like the Twilight Zone because everybody's 2774 02:20:34.799 --> 02:20:38.159 there speaking Russian, but it looks like a major US city. 2775 02:20:38.239 --> 02:20:41.799 I was in I was in Almadi last year. Yes, yeah, 2776 02:20:42.079 --> 02:20:44.159 it feels it feels like, yeah, you could be like 2777 02:20:44.200 --> 02:20:46.280 in a coffee shop in Brooklyn. 2778 02:20:46.760 --> 02:20:47.559 Yeah, exactly. 2779 02:20:47.879 --> 02:20:51.079 And then you've got you know, turk Ministan, where uh 2780 02:20:51.319 --> 02:20:55.440 it's very wild West and and uh, you know, extremely 2781 02:20:55.600 --> 02:20:59.440 strange but very unique. And they they speak their own 2782 02:20:59.760 --> 02:21:04.479 uh uh like uh Persian dialect there. That's that's pretty close. 2783 02:21:04.559 --> 02:21:06.760 So I was able to communicate with them while we 2784 02:21:06.760 --> 02:21:10.159 were there. It was some pretty cool experience to to 2785 02:21:10.280 --> 02:21:13.399 get to go to those countries. It's probably the best 2786 02:21:14.000 --> 02:21:16.239 part of the Fifth Group area. 2787 02:21:16.440 --> 02:21:18.719 Were you guys mostly kind of like working on setting 2788 02:21:18.799 --> 02:21:21.600 up the logistics for everything going down in Afghanistan. 2789 02:21:22.680 --> 02:21:26.840 So we we were still completely involved in a joint 2790 02:21:26.879 --> 02:21:30.319 Chief of Staff directed mission and a lot of it, 2791 02:21:30.559 --> 02:21:34.399 like we were working through UH through the embassies in 2792 02:21:34.440 --> 02:21:37.159 those different countries, So we really didn't have anything to 2793 02:21:37.200 --> 02:21:38.399 do directly. 2794 02:21:38.000 --> 02:21:38.840 With fifth Group. 2795 02:21:39.479 --> 02:21:44.159 Interesting are you can you can you talk about what 2796 02:21:44.200 --> 02:21:45.319 you were doing at that time? 2797 02:21:46.200 --> 02:21:51.959 So so we were we were UH indirectly supporting UH 2798 02:21:52.040 --> 02:21:53.440 Jaysok endeavor. 2799 02:21:58.680 --> 02:22:00.760 And so you were traveling around that part of the 2800 02:22:00.760 --> 02:22:06.120 world under basically working for so calm And how long 2801 02:22:06.159 --> 02:22:07.040 did that go on for? 2802 02:22:08.799 --> 02:22:11.639 So let's see, I think I had that team startaint 2803 02:22:11.639 --> 02:22:14.520 gig for we were we were doing that. 2804 02:22:14.520 --> 02:22:17.600 Part like after nine to eleven. I was with him until. 2805 02:22:19.479 --> 02:22:23.719 Let's see, for about a year for you know, the 2806 02:22:23.760 --> 02:22:26.360 first part of the that and then you know, my 2807 02:22:26.520 --> 02:22:29.760 team startain time was up and and UH for me 2808 02:22:30.000 --> 02:22:33.520 that there was a lot of pressure to take like 2809 02:22:33.639 --> 02:22:36.959 a group operations job or one or the other, you know, 2810 02:22:37.120 --> 02:22:40.840 things like that. But for me at that time, you know, 2811 02:22:40.879 --> 02:22:44.399 we'd had the incident with the guys that UH that 2812 02:22:44.559 --> 02:22:47.440 were killed in the friendly fire incident, and two of 2813 02:22:47.440 --> 02:22:51.680 my good friends died in that, you know, dam peditory 2814 02:22:52.559 --> 02:22:56.120 and uh and Jenny Davis. So I was kind of 2815 02:22:56.120 --> 02:22:59.200 at a point to where I and I'm not sure 2816 02:22:59.200 --> 02:23:02.399 how familiar are the incident, but yeah, it was really. 2817 02:23:02.239 --> 02:23:06.920 Some cert except yeah, when they called they called it 2818 02:23:07.000 --> 02:23:07.680 an air strike. 2819 02:23:08.799 --> 02:23:10.840 Yeah, they called it an air strike that wiped out 2820 02:23:10.840 --> 02:23:14.639 the team ODA five seven four and and those guys, 2821 02:23:14.680 --> 02:23:16.719 you know, we're really good friends of mine. So at 2822 02:23:16.760 --> 02:23:20.639 the time, I really wasn't too big on continuing to 2823 02:23:21.200 --> 02:23:24.319 work with the way things were. We were also getting 2824 02:23:24.319 --> 02:23:27.159 a lot of a lot of flak from our battalion 2825 02:23:27.200 --> 02:23:30.479 commander because we didn't answer to him as part of 2826 02:23:30.520 --> 02:23:34.200 the special Project team, and he was constantly you know, 2827 02:23:34.319 --> 02:23:36.879 like on me as the team, started telling me that, 2828 02:23:36.959 --> 02:23:38.600 you know, I need to tell the general that we're 2829 02:23:38.600 --> 02:23:40.239 not going to do the special project. And I was like, 2830 02:23:41.239 --> 02:23:43.479 you expect me as an eight to tell a three 2831 02:23:43.479 --> 02:23:45.239 star general that we're not going to do what he 2832 02:23:45.280 --> 02:23:47.719 wants to done. I think, I think maybe you need 2833 02:23:47.760 --> 02:23:50.799 to do some you know, officer math and and go 2834 02:23:50.840 --> 02:23:53.719 talk to film yourself or maybe have somebody higher because 2835 02:23:53.920 --> 02:23:56.079 I don't have that kind of clout that's not my 2836 02:23:56.719 --> 02:23:58.360 position to tell him what to do. 2837 02:23:58.639 --> 02:23:59.719 He tells me what to do. 2838 02:24:00.319 --> 02:24:03.120 And he really wasn't in favor of us as the 2839 02:24:03.159 --> 02:24:05.840 special project from the beginning, which is kind of sad 2840 02:24:05.879 --> 02:24:08.040 because all my guys ever did was make him look good. 2841 02:24:08.680 --> 02:24:08.840 You know. 2842 02:24:08.920 --> 02:24:13.000 They came back with letters accommodation from the ambassadors and 2843 02:24:13.000 --> 02:24:17.040 and you know guys from uh, you know, from Department 2844 02:24:17.040 --> 02:24:20.479 of State and even a couple of times I'd go 2845 02:24:20.600 --> 02:24:23.840 in and given after action, you know, a post trip 2846 02:24:24.120 --> 02:24:26.559 report to him, let him know, hey, this is this, 2847 02:24:26.760 --> 02:24:28.559 you know things we went here, we did this, this 2848 02:24:28.639 --> 02:24:32.440 is good. Here the accommodations from the ambassador and you 2849 02:24:32.479 --> 02:24:35.920 know from SOCOM, you know, be really great surf. He 2850 02:24:35.959 --> 02:24:38.399 went down and kind of said, tell the guys who 2851 02:24:38.399 --> 02:24:39.920 did a great job, and he just wouldn't do it. 2852 02:24:40.000 --> 02:24:43.000 He had no like respect for us and didn't care 2853 02:24:43.079 --> 02:24:45.799 for the mission at all. He was really down on us. 2854 02:24:46.120 --> 02:24:48.360 So working for him was at that time, and he 2855 02:24:48.399 --> 02:24:51.200 couldn't once the war kicked off. He didn't have us, 2856 02:24:51.680 --> 02:24:54.120 you know, for tactical control, to task to do some 2857 02:24:54.200 --> 02:24:55.360 of the missions. 2858 02:24:54.920 --> 02:24:59.040 And the command to put him against the commanders. I 2859 02:24:59.040 --> 02:25:02.239 think the battalion command get kind of irritated when they 2860 02:25:02.280 --> 02:25:05.920 have like a special projects team. The SITH was another 2861 02:25:06.000 --> 02:25:09.719 element that was in this category because they're mostly working 2862 02:25:09.760 --> 02:25:13.600 for Jaysock and who were oh back in the old days. 2863 02:25:13.600 --> 02:25:15.840 Also the green Light team. That was another thing that 2864 02:25:16.000 --> 02:25:19.840 just like sucked up all these resources. And when you're 2865 02:25:19.959 --> 02:25:22.840 assigned to another element like that, it means that, like 2866 02:25:22.879 --> 02:25:26.520 the commander cannot task out his teams to do exactly. Yeah, 2867 02:25:26.520 --> 02:25:29.559 and so they hate these kinds of you know, special projects. 2868 02:25:30.319 --> 02:25:34.440 Oh yeah, this guy hated us like severely, you know, 2869 02:25:34.600 --> 02:25:37.159 and and all we ever did is make him look good. 2870 02:25:37.159 --> 02:25:39.600 But he did not like that at all. And so 2871 02:25:39.680 --> 02:25:42.680 it was a constant battle. And then after that happened, 2872 02:25:43.040 --> 02:25:44.719 you know, I was kind of disheartened as far as 2873 02:25:45.239 --> 02:25:48.000 sticking with Fifth Group. And you know, I'd always been 2874 02:25:48.000 --> 02:25:50.719 taught by all these guys that I'd learned from all 2875 02:25:50.760 --> 02:25:53.879 the years that you know, if you if you've got 2876 02:25:53.879 --> 02:25:56.760 a problem, you need to have a solution. And so 2877 02:25:56.920 --> 02:25:58.680 I started looking at it and I was like, you know, 2878 02:25:58.959 --> 02:26:02.879 my problem here is leadership officer leadership. What can I 2879 02:26:02.920 --> 02:26:06.319 do about it? You know, I'm an NCO. What can 2880 02:26:06.360 --> 02:26:08.600 I how can I impact this in any way? 2881 02:26:08.639 --> 02:26:09.120 Possible. 2882 02:26:09.440 --> 02:26:11.920 And the answer I came up with is, you know what, 2883 02:26:12.200 --> 02:26:17.079 I can go teach future officers at ROTC. And so 2884 02:26:17.200 --> 02:26:20.959 I got my choice of assignment after Afghanistan and we were, 2885 02:26:21.440 --> 02:26:25.239 you know, the project was closely connected to the SITH. 2886 02:26:25.959 --> 02:26:28.760 You know, it was the it was labeled the RST 2887 02:26:29.239 --> 02:26:32.799 or the Regional Survey Team. Yeah, so so that was 2888 02:26:33.000 --> 02:26:36.280 kind of the responsibility there. And like I said, I 2889 02:26:36.280 --> 02:26:39.200 got my choice of assignment. So I checked out a 2890 02:26:39.200 --> 02:26:42.280 couple of things, and the one I ended up with, 2891 02:26:42.319 --> 02:26:44.760 probably because I had been at Fort Benning and Georgia before, 2892 02:26:44.879 --> 02:26:47.879 is I went to the University of Georgia. I actually 2893 02:26:47.959 --> 02:26:50.959 went and came here and checked it out right before 2894 02:26:51.000 --> 02:26:53.319 I went on my last mission. So I showed up 2895 02:26:53.360 --> 02:26:56.760 with long hair, you know, facial hair, looking like a 2896 02:26:56.799 --> 02:27:00.760 street or street person, and toured the the campus. The 2897 02:27:00.799 --> 02:27:04.200 guy who was in the position already was a former 2898 02:27:05.319 --> 02:27:07.479 support medic from Delta. He and I had gone to 2899 02:27:07.719 --> 02:27:11.399 medic training together, so I knew him, and he kind 2900 02:27:11.399 --> 02:27:14.920 of you know, showed me around. The job looked interesting enough, 2901 02:27:15.559 --> 02:27:17.799 and so you know, I decided, you know what, I'll 2902 02:27:17.799 --> 02:27:19.760 take this. I went back and put in for it 2903 02:27:20.360 --> 02:27:25.319 and then did my last you know, overseas deployment with 2904 02:27:25.479 --> 02:27:28.360 the team, and then shortly after that I came back 2905 02:27:28.399 --> 02:27:33.639 and moved down to Athens, Georgia. Been here ever since. 2906 02:27:34.120 --> 02:27:37.040 Oh great, So you were able to, yeah, find a 2907 02:27:37.079 --> 02:27:39.479 good position to kind of ride out your last year 2908 02:27:39.559 --> 02:27:42.120 or so in the military. Yeah, you know. 2909 02:27:42.200 --> 02:27:44.680 And it's the it's really the big lie because they 2910 02:27:44.680 --> 02:27:46.600 make it sound like, hell, you'll be home. You know, 2911 02:27:46.719 --> 02:27:49.399 you got all this free time and everything, and I 2912 02:27:49.440 --> 02:27:51.399 guess you could do it that way. But when I 2913 02:27:51.440 --> 02:27:54.120 got here, the one of the things I saw was 2914 02:27:54.159 --> 02:27:55.760 the kids were really motivated. 2915 02:27:55.920 --> 02:27:56.159 You know. 2916 02:27:56.239 --> 02:27:59.399 They most of them had signed up because of nine 2917 02:27:59.440 --> 02:28:02.200 to elevens, so they were anxious to go out there 2918 02:28:02.239 --> 02:28:04.840 and make a difference. They were different from a lot 2919 02:28:04.879 --> 02:28:06.840 of the youth that you know that you were seeing 2920 02:28:06.879 --> 02:28:12.120 everywhere else. And you know, so the key there was 2921 02:28:12.440 --> 02:28:14.760 to take the job seriously and really try to train 2922 02:28:14.799 --> 02:28:17.319 them and make good leaders out of them. So it 2923 02:28:17.360 --> 02:28:19.319 takes up like a lot of your weekends, which they 2924 02:28:19.319 --> 02:28:20.920 don't tell you about. You know, you're doing a lot 2925 02:28:20.959 --> 02:28:23.239 of training thing with them on the weekend. You're in 2926 02:28:23.399 --> 02:28:27.600 every morning at six am, running pt for them. You're 2927 02:28:27.600 --> 02:28:29.319 there a lot of times late at night, and then 2928 02:28:29.319 --> 02:28:31.120 they were just like my rangers. You know, they were 2929 02:28:31.159 --> 02:28:33.840 calling me twenty four to seven. I couldn't go to 2930 02:28:33.840 --> 02:28:35.760 the bathroom without one of them following me in there. 2931 02:28:35.760 --> 02:28:37.079 You know, I'd have to order them out so I 2932 02:28:37.079 --> 02:28:39.399 could actually use the bathroom for five minutes. 2933 02:28:40.000 --> 02:28:43.040 But you know, they're like your own kids. So it 2934 02:28:43.120 --> 02:28:43.719 was a good. 2935 02:28:43.559 --> 02:28:47.920 Experience overall to work with them and to see folks 2936 02:28:48.000 --> 02:28:50.799 that wanted to be motivated leaders and to impart to 2937 02:28:50.840 --> 02:28:54.559 them while they're still listening about what a difference they 2938 02:28:54.559 --> 02:28:56.319 can make and how they need to be a strong 2939 02:28:56.399 --> 02:28:58.120 leader and work with their NCOs. 2940 02:29:00.360 --> 02:29:03.920 And for the last twenty years, I mean we've kind 2941 02:29:03.920 --> 02:29:06.959 of touched upon it throughout this interview, but martial arts 2942 02:29:07.040 --> 02:29:09.079 is obviously a big part of your life. You know, 2943 02:29:09.159 --> 02:29:14.639 your black belt certification behind you there, jiu jitsu, army combatives, 2944 02:29:14.639 --> 02:29:17.040 developing all of that, and you've kind of flipped that 2945 02:29:17.120 --> 02:29:19.559 into a business after your military career. 2946 02:29:20.479 --> 02:29:20.719 Yeah. 2947 02:29:20.799 --> 02:29:23.399 So so one of the things I've found is I 2948 02:29:24.079 --> 02:29:27.600 was on my second marriage and we waited ten years 2949 02:29:27.600 --> 02:29:30.840 to have my son, and you know, he was born 2950 02:29:30.879 --> 02:29:33.920 in two thousand, So the plan was I was winding 2951 02:29:33.959 --> 02:29:36.319 down I had my son. I had two kids from 2952 02:29:36.319 --> 02:29:41.000 the first marriage and you know, completely detached from them 2953 02:29:41.079 --> 02:29:44.239 just or that didn't work out too well, so you know, 2954 02:29:44.360 --> 02:29:46.000 I didn't want to mess it up again. So I 2955 02:29:46.040 --> 02:29:49.600 wanted to have that time with my son. And he was, 2956 02:29:49.760 --> 02:29:51.520 you know, less than a year old. He was born 2957 02:29:51.559 --> 02:29:55.520 in October two thousand, so when it came to nine 2958 02:29:55.559 --> 02:29:57.760 to eleven, he wasn't even a year old yet. I 2959 02:29:57.799 --> 02:30:00.040 thought I was kind of winding down and that and 2960 02:30:00.120 --> 02:30:02.520 I was going to do that family thing and work 2961 02:30:02.559 --> 02:30:05.520 with you know, grow grow up, have him grow up 2962 02:30:05.719 --> 02:30:10.000 with me, and then all of a sudden, you know, 2963 02:30:10.079 --> 02:30:12.440 I was gone. A lot a lot of things were crazy. 2964 02:30:12.920 --> 02:30:16.040 So I decided, once I got out or started to 2965 02:30:16.040 --> 02:30:17.719 get out, that I was going to make sure I 2966 02:30:17.799 --> 02:30:19.200 was home and I was going to have that time 2967 02:30:19.239 --> 02:30:21.319 with him. So I started looking at options, and a 2968 02:30:21.399 --> 02:30:24.520 lot of the things I was offered were all contract 2969 02:30:24.639 --> 02:30:26.600 jobs that would keep me doing what I'd been doing 2970 02:30:26.600 --> 02:30:30.000 in special projects or other things like that, and you know, 2971 02:30:30.440 --> 02:30:33.040 big numbers as far as salary and money and all that. 2972 02:30:33.079 --> 02:30:37.159 But I really had a priority to have that time 2973 02:30:37.200 --> 02:30:40.120 with him and be there, you know, as he grew up. 2974 02:30:40.200 --> 02:30:42.879 So I finally settled on the fact that hey, I 2975 02:30:42.920 --> 02:30:44.920 was going to open up a jiu jitsu academy. At 2976 02:30:44.920 --> 02:30:47.639 the time, it was a karate academy, and that allowed 2977 02:30:47.639 --> 02:30:50.120 me to bring him to work with me every day. 2978 02:30:50.559 --> 02:30:52.680 To spend all that time with him, I took a 2979 02:30:52.719 --> 02:30:56.360 huge pay cut, so you know, first one to go 2980 02:30:56.399 --> 02:30:59.840 from SF to ROTC, and then you know another one 2981 02:30:59.879 --> 02:31:03.639 to retire and then not and then to start your 2982 02:31:03.639 --> 02:31:04.200 own business. 2983 02:31:04.639 --> 02:31:08.040 And that definitely, that government contracting money as the g 2984 02:31:08.200 --> 02:31:10.360 WATT was picking up was very tempting for a lot 2985 02:31:10.360 --> 02:31:10.760 of people. 2986 02:31:10.920 --> 02:31:15.399 Yeah. Absolutely, I like almost said yes a few times. Yeah, 2987 02:31:15.440 --> 02:31:16.399 it was really tough. 2988 02:31:18.239 --> 02:31:23.200 And so you're down in Georgia, you said, opening karate 2989 02:31:23.280 --> 02:31:27.239 gym becomes a jiu jitsu gym. I mean, how does 2990 02:31:27.280 --> 02:31:29.799 it go? What are some of the roadbumps and hurdles 2991 02:31:29.840 --> 02:31:32.000 that you have starting a small business, because I know 2992 02:31:32.000 --> 02:31:32.799 there always are. 2993 02:31:33.440 --> 02:31:34.239 Oh absolutely. 2994 02:31:34.280 --> 02:31:37.120 So the first problem is I'd worked for the government 2995 02:31:37.200 --> 02:31:40.000 for over twenty years, so I didn't know how to 2996 02:31:40.200 --> 02:31:41.959 make a profit. All I knew how to do was 2997 02:31:41.959 --> 02:31:45.040 spend other people's money, and so I had no clue 2998 02:31:45.079 --> 02:31:48.879 about running a business. But luckily, you know, all that 2999 02:31:49.000 --> 02:31:52.479 time and Special Forces. You learn how to to come 3000 02:31:52.559 --> 02:31:54.399 up with things that nobody knows how to do and 3001 02:31:54.440 --> 02:31:55.680 you don't know how to do yourself. 3002 02:31:56.360 --> 02:31:57.920 So I started figuring it out. 3003 02:31:57.959 --> 02:32:01.639 And I had I had done, you know, I in 3004 02:32:01.680 --> 02:32:04.000 my spare time at Fort Campbell, I had been a 3005 02:32:04.360 --> 02:32:06.680 karate instructor, already had my black belt. I did that 3006 02:32:06.799 --> 02:32:10.360 as you know, my part time recreation when I wasn't 3007 02:32:10.399 --> 02:32:13.319 gone all the time. And so I started off with 3008 02:32:13.399 --> 02:32:16.360 that and I had developed this relationship with the gracies 3009 02:32:16.799 --> 02:32:19.360 and actually got my blue belt, you know, which is 3010 02:32:19.399 --> 02:32:21.840 the first major thing. And at the time there weren't 3011 02:32:21.879 --> 02:32:25.879 many blue belts in America, especially American ones, so it 3012 02:32:25.959 --> 02:32:29.040 was kind of like having a black belt in Brazilian 3013 02:32:29.079 --> 02:32:32.000 jiu jitsu. And I had gotten mine from Hoist Gracie, 3014 02:32:32.040 --> 02:32:34.719 which was you know, the guy won the first few UFC's, 3015 02:32:35.360 --> 02:32:36.959 you know, knew his brother pretty well. 3016 02:32:37.360 --> 02:32:38.559 That had started all of it. 3017 02:32:39.159 --> 02:32:42.479 So I started working, you know, having jiu jitsu and 3018 02:32:42.559 --> 02:32:48.000 karate at my academy, and I also did the logical 3019 02:32:48.120 --> 02:32:50.920 SF thing. I started going, Okay, there's got to be 3020 02:32:50.959 --> 02:32:54.559 a school for this, and you know the answer was, 3021 02:32:54.719 --> 02:32:56.120 there's an NBA program. 3022 02:32:56.360 --> 02:32:57.959 And I was like, no, that's not what I'm looking for. 3023 02:32:58.000 --> 02:33:00.440 I want an actual school that teaches me how to 3024 02:33:00.520 --> 02:33:03.200 run a martial arts school. So I started looking around 3025 02:33:03.239 --> 02:33:05.879 and I found training opportunities for that. I started reading 3026 02:33:05.879 --> 02:33:08.479 all the books I could about business. But the main 3027 02:33:08.520 --> 02:33:11.120 thing I did was just like I did an s 3028 02:33:11.280 --> 02:33:15.319 F was I started putting everything into a training curriculum. 3029 02:33:15.520 --> 02:33:19.639 First one for that I already had for training combative, 3030 02:33:19.719 --> 02:33:22.680 so that was my outline to do the trade the training, 3031 02:33:23.159 --> 02:33:25.479 and then I started building a business curriculum because I 3032 02:33:25.520 --> 02:33:28.360 figured out pretty quick that it doesn't matter how good 3033 02:33:28.399 --> 02:33:31.479 you are at martial arts or the technical side of anything. 3034 02:33:31.920 --> 02:33:34.040 You got to know the business piece in order to 3035 02:33:34.719 --> 02:33:36.559 you know, one, be able to eat, two be able 3036 02:33:36.559 --> 02:33:39.760 to keep it open, and you know three to keep 3037 02:33:39.799 --> 02:33:43.440 it going. And so I started learning that, and as 3038 02:33:43.479 --> 02:33:46.159 I did, I kind of built it all into my 3039 02:33:46.239 --> 02:33:49.879 own business manual. And one of the things I figured 3040 02:33:49.920 --> 02:33:53.239 out fairly early on is man, I'm not a businessman. 3041 02:33:53.520 --> 02:33:54.319 I tried. 3042 02:33:54.399 --> 02:33:56.680 Initially, I was like, you know, I tried to be 3043 02:33:56.719 --> 02:33:59.120 a businessman, and it didn't take long before I figured 3044 02:33:59.120 --> 02:34:00.559 out I'm not a businessman. 3045 02:34:00.600 --> 02:34:01.520 I'm an SF guy. 3046 02:34:01.559 --> 02:34:04.360 So I had to reorient my thinking to the idea 3047 02:34:04.399 --> 02:34:06.719 that I'm an SF guy on a mission to run 3048 02:34:07.079 --> 02:34:10.159 a martial arts business. And once I made that switch 3049 02:34:10.200 --> 02:34:13.399 and I started doing everything the same way I did 3050 02:34:13.559 --> 02:34:16.319 to run a team and to do s F missions, 3051 02:34:16.920 --> 02:34:19.479 then it started to click for me and things started 3052 02:34:19.520 --> 02:34:23.120 to progress. So I started building it into my own 3053 02:34:23.280 --> 02:34:26.680 version of running a business, and it's developed into this 3054 02:34:27.040 --> 02:34:30.079 program I have now called Going Commando, and it's all 3055 02:34:30.120 --> 02:34:35.319 about taking these SF principles and military concepts and applying 3056 02:34:35.319 --> 02:34:38.360 them to business and using some of those things that 3057 02:34:38.600 --> 02:34:41.760 we're really you know, good at that we don't we 3058 02:34:41.799 --> 02:34:44.680 take for granted because it's just built into everything we do, 3059 02:34:45.159 --> 02:34:49.559 you know, the planning, the the you know, the technical 3060 02:34:49.600 --> 02:34:52.520 side of developing that and having all these specialties through 3061 02:34:52.559 --> 02:34:58.200 the different moss and all the mission preparation. It's easily 3062 02:34:58.239 --> 02:35:01.920 converted into business concepts that make it work really well. 3063 02:35:04.440 --> 02:35:07.760 What was it like? I got to ask your whole career, 3064 02:35:07.760 --> 02:35:10.520 and you've been training soldiers in hand to hand combat, 3065 02:35:11.079 --> 02:35:14.559 and now I imagine you have everything from you know, 3066 02:35:14.680 --> 02:35:16.920 a teenage kid that comes in wants you to teach 3067 02:35:16.959 --> 02:35:19.399 him how to be a killer, to a parent coming 3068 02:35:19.440 --> 02:35:21.280 in saying can you teach my six year old daughter 3069 02:35:21.319 --> 02:35:22.079 how to do karate? 3070 02:35:23.639 --> 02:35:24.399 Yeah? 3071 02:35:24.440 --> 02:35:28.719 So the nice thing is actually ROTC kind of worked 3072 02:35:28.760 --> 02:35:32.079 as like a prisoner release halfway house for me. So 3073 02:35:32.600 --> 02:35:37.399 I had to kind of, you know, change my language 3074 02:35:37.399 --> 02:35:40.079 a little bit, my demeanor, and I had to learn 3075 02:35:40.159 --> 02:35:43.079 to do that SF thing and work with the indigenous people, 3076 02:35:43.120 --> 02:35:47.600 which were academics at the university and mainly civilians, So 3077 02:35:47.639 --> 02:35:50.920 I had to kind of adopt and adapt that you know, 3078 02:35:51.159 --> 02:35:53.440 persona a little bit. The other part of it, though, 3079 02:35:53.440 --> 02:35:56.319 is I was still really focused on having very serious, 3080 02:35:57.000 --> 02:36:00.280 hard training, and as a result, for the majority already 3081 02:36:00.280 --> 02:36:02.520 of the time are and even still today, our Jiu 3082 02:36:02.559 --> 02:36:06.559 Jitsu academy is primarily adults. You know, like most martial 3083 02:36:06.680 --> 02:36:09.840 arts programs are like eighty percent kids, We've always been 3084 02:36:09.959 --> 02:36:12.360 like seventy five to eighty percent adults. So we've had 3085 02:36:12.360 --> 02:36:16.799 this like unusual niche of adult training, which has included 3086 02:36:17.639 --> 02:36:21.159 you know, training military law enforcement, especially a lot of 3087 02:36:21.200 --> 02:36:24.200 the local law enforcement. And then along the way, while 3088 02:36:24.239 --> 02:36:29.520 I was in ROTC, I had one of you know, 3089 02:36:29.559 --> 02:36:33.440 I was teaching the military cadets combatives, and then one 3090 02:36:33.440 --> 02:36:35.319 Monday morning, I had one of my students one of 3091 02:36:35.360 --> 02:36:37.440 my female students come up to me and say, hey, 3092 02:36:37.479 --> 02:36:42.719 sarn Mac. Over the weekend, I was attacked and the 3093 02:36:42.760 --> 02:36:45.079 stuff you taught has helped me escape and assault, you know. 3094 02:36:45.120 --> 02:36:47.760 And so when that happened, I was like, man, that's 3095 02:36:47.799 --> 02:36:50.639 pretty serious, you know. And I kind of observed some 3096 02:36:50.680 --> 02:36:54.159 of the just lacks security and the mistakes that a 3097 02:36:54.200 --> 02:36:57.040 lot of the college kids were making on campus. Anyway, 3098 02:36:57.959 --> 02:37:01.280 and I got together with one of the cadets who 3099 02:37:01.319 --> 02:37:03.600 was in a sorority, and she was actually the first 3100 02:37:03.600 --> 02:37:06.520 cadet I met when I came down here, you know, 3101 02:37:06.879 --> 02:37:10.159 still in civilian clothes on relaxed screaming standards to check 3102 02:37:10.159 --> 02:37:14.600 out the job. And you know, it was kind of 3103 02:37:14.760 --> 02:37:17.680 interesting because I went out to observe their training. They 3104 02:37:17.680 --> 02:37:19.959 were out in this you know, this area that's kind 3105 02:37:19.959 --> 02:37:22.040 of like our matamol at Fort Bragg, but it's a 3106 02:37:22.520 --> 02:37:25.079 you know, it's an intermural fields and they've got these 3107 02:37:25.120 --> 02:37:28.399 paths they run on and this girl had ran into 3108 02:37:29.319 --> 02:37:31.479 like a low hanging limb and split her head open 3109 02:37:32.200 --> 02:37:35.399 and she wouldn't come out. She finished the run and 3110 02:37:35.399 --> 02:37:38.159 then came back. And then you know, myself and the 3111 02:37:38.159 --> 02:37:42.360 other staff at ROTC when it was a medic. We 3112 02:37:42.360 --> 02:37:46.479 took her to the clinic on the on campus. So 3113 02:37:46.600 --> 02:37:49.120 this was like my first interaction with one of the cadets. 3114 02:37:49.120 --> 02:37:54.120 So this girl's tough as nails, right, So she got 3115 02:37:54.239 --> 02:37:57.440 partnered up with me and we created this program called safe, 3116 02:37:57.479 --> 02:38:00.479 which is sexual assault fundamental escapes that we were We 3117 02:38:00.520 --> 02:38:03.079 first taught it to the military cadets, then we taught 3118 02:38:03.079 --> 02:38:05.479 it to you know a lot of the staff people 3119 02:38:05.760 --> 02:38:08.000 on campus, and then we started teaching it to all 3120 02:38:08.079 --> 02:38:12.559 the sororities on the on campus. And so I've been 3121 02:38:12.559 --> 02:38:14.719 doing it for like over twenty years now, and it's 3122 02:38:14.760 --> 02:38:18.360 such a popular program that we've actually traveled. Like two 3123 02:38:18.440 --> 02:38:21.239 years ago, my son and I went to London, England 3124 02:38:21.280 --> 02:38:21.760 to teach. 3125 02:38:21.559 --> 02:38:22.440 A version of it there. 3126 02:38:23.239 --> 02:38:27.319 Last year we went out to near Los Angeles, California, 3127 02:38:27.399 --> 02:38:29.920 taught a version of it. You know, in the last 3128 02:38:29.959 --> 02:38:33.879 couple of years, I went to Detroit, Pennsylvania, and I 3129 02:38:33.920 --> 02:38:35.959 go every year to UNC Chapel Hill to teach a 3130 02:38:36.040 --> 02:38:37.840 version of it there, and have been doing that for 3131 02:38:37.879 --> 02:38:39.000 like the last twelve years. 3132 02:38:39.360 --> 02:38:41.120 And we do this in our own community. 3133 02:38:41.680 --> 02:38:45.959 And then last year as well, we had an incident 3134 02:38:45.959 --> 02:38:50.440 that was highly publicized on the news that an illegal 3135 02:38:50.440 --> 02:38:53.239 immigrant killed a student on campus, so a young lady 3136 02:38:53.239 --> 02:38:56.200 by the name of Lake and Riley. And so when 3137 02:38:56.239 --> 02:38:59.559 that happened that day, we got fifty two calls for 3138 02:38:59.840 --> 02:39:03.440 these courses that we do. Obviously we couldn't fill them all, 3139 02:39:03.479 --> 02:39:06.520 but we did as many as we could. So all 3140 02:39:06.559 --> 02:39:10.079 these types of specialty programs that I developed these curriculums for, 3141 02:39:11.319 --> 02:39:14.479 you know, kind of paid off because they had that 3142 02:39:14.680 --> 02:39:17.079 SF flavor to them and they there was that realistic 3143 02:39:17.120 --> 02:39:19.520 component and even for a good while a lot of 3144 02:39:19.520 --> 02:39:23.840 people actually came in to train because of my SF background, 3145 02:39:23.879 --> 02:39:25.280 So it actually served me pretty well. 3146 02:39:25.399 --> 02:39:29.760 Yeah, where can people find your dojo? What's what's the 3147 02:39:29.879 --> 02:39:31.479 name of it? Where can they find it? And where 3148 02:39:31.479 --> 02:39:33.719 can they find going commando, like if they want to 3149 02:39:33.719 --> 02:39:36.239 find some of these services and safe these things you're 3150 02:39:36.280 --> 02:39:36.840 talking about. 3151 02:39:37.200 --> 02:39:39.600 Absolutely, So the best way to connect with us if 3152 02:39:39.680 --> 02:39:43.920 if there's any interest in the our Jiu Jitsu Academy, 3153 02:39:43.920 --> 02:39:47.719 it's Gracie Jiu Jitsu Athens, you know, or Athens ju 3154 02:39:47.799 --> 02:39:50.319 Jitsu dot com. That's the easiest way to find that. 3155 02:39:50.719 --> 02:39:54.040 And as far as going Commando, if if somebody wants to, 3156 02:39:54.559 --> 02:39:58.920 you know, connect with those concepts for business. I'm at 3157 02:40:00.120 --> 02:40:02.799 you know, Commando success, dot. 3158 02:40:02.600 --> 02:40:06.559 Com, cool and the safe program. 3159 02:40:06.719 --> 02:40:08.680 You can always find me, excuse me, you can always 3160 02:40:08.680 --> 02:40:11.559 find me Randy mcwee on LinkedIn. 3161 02:40:12.200 --> 02:40:14.840 Oh cool, Okay, and so that's probably the best way 3162 02:40:14.840 --> 02:40:19.799 to find you personally. Yeah, absolutely cool. You know, I 3163 02:40:19.799 --> 02:40:22.159 know we've talked about a lot through this interview, Randy, 3164 02:40:22.159 --> 02:40:24.879 but I want to just kind of backtrack just to say, 3165 02:40:25.239 --> 02:40:27.639 you know, is there anything that I haven't asked her 3166 02:40:27.680 --> 02:40:29.840 in this interview that you'd really like to talk about? 3167 02:40:31.200 --> 02:40:31.479 You know what? 3168 02:40:31.680 --> 02:40:34.399 At this point, I think, uh, you know, working off 3169 02:40:34.440 --> 02:40:38.159 of a forty year old memory, I definitely don't think 3170 02:40:38.159 --> 02:40:39.479 we didn't cover everything. 3171 02:40:39.520 --> 02:40:41.079 We didn't talk about anything. 3172 02:40:41.159 --> 02:40:43.399 Unfortunately, I didn't get to talk to you about your 3173 02:40:43.639 --> 02:40:46.920 background and experience. So you know, that's really the one 3174 02:40:46.920 --> 02:40:49.239 thing I would ask is, tell me real quick about 3175 02:40:49.319 --> 02:40:50.079 your time. 3176 02:40:50.399 --> 02:40:52.959 It was I got I wrote a book about it 3177 02:40:52.959 --> 02:40:55.399 if people are really interested. But yeah, I was. 3178 02:40:55.479 --> 02:40:55.600 Uh. 3179 02:40:55.680 --> 02:40:57.879 I started off in Ranger Battalion. I was in three 3180 02:40:57.959 --> 02:40:58.719 seven five. 3181 02:41:00.200 --> 02:41:00.479 Guys. 3182 02:41:00.600 --> 02:41:04.280 Yeah, man got there in two right after the invasion 3183 02:41:04.280 --> 02:41:09.159 of Iraq. In three I got there, and then I 3184 02:41:09.200 --> 02:41:12.719 went to SF. I went to the Q course in 3185 02:41:12.760 --> 02:41:15.639 two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, I got 3186 02:41:15.639 --> 02:41:17.120 the fifth group, and then I was there for a 3187 02:41:17.120 --> 02:41:19.000 few years and got out in twenty ten. 3188 02:41:20.120 --> 02:41:24.920 Excellent. Yeah, so I love my time in Ranger Battalion. 3189 02:41:25.040 --> 02:41:27.879 I mean it was a kind of a rough experience 3190 02:41:27.920 --> 02:41:31.159 at the time, but I still remember all the all 3191 02:41:31.200 --> 02:41:34.680 the things there, and I especially remember this one guy, 3192 02:41:34.840 --> 02:41:36.639 you know, that was the first sergeant. His name was 3193 02:41:36.639 --> 02:41:39.719 first started Nielsen, and he recently passed away a few 3194 02:41:39.799 --> 02:41:42.559 years ago. But the cool thing about it was I 3195 02:41:42.639 --> 02:41:45.120 used to go to you know, he was my company 3196 02:41:45.159 --> 02:41:46.840 first sergeant, so I had to go to the meeting, 3197 02:41:47.319 --> 02:41:49.920 you know, the training meeting once a week, and we 3198 02:41:50.040 --> 02:41:52.239 used to call him the gun because you never knew 3199 02:41:52.239 --> 02:41:54.159 when you go off right. So I would come in, 3200 02:41:54.719 --> 02:41:56.639 I would sit get ready to sit down in front 3201 02:41:56.639 --> 02:41:59.559 of his desk. I would maybe turn around, grab a notebook, 3202 02:41:59.559 --> 02:42:01.200 and by the time I turned back around, he would 3203 02:42:01.239 --> 02:42:04.040 be like just read as could be and yelling and 3204 02:42:04.040 --> 02:42:06.040 screaming at me for no reason, you know, like you 3205 02:42:06.159 --> 02:42:09.479 damnsf guys, And I never knew what to expect, so, 3206 02:42:09.559 --> 02:42:12.920 you know, it was always just a blast to be 3207 02:42:13.479 --> 02:42:14.040 with the guys. 3208 02:42:14.040 --> 02:42:15.200 At three seven five. 3209 02:42:15.520 --> 02:42:17.840 Yeah, I can't imagine what it's like doing like twelve 3210 02:42:17.920 --> 02:42:22.799 years in SF and then going to Ranger Regiment. That's hilarious. 3211 02:42:23.520 --> 02:42:26.479 Yeah, it's definitely a hoot, you know, but like I said, 3212 02:42:26.479 --> 02:42:28.200 great experience and set me up well to be a 3213 02:42:28.200 --> 02:42:28.799 team sergant. 3214 02:42:28.879 --> 02:42:33.200 So, so if you guys are looking for Randy mcawee, 3215 02:42:33.399 --> 02:42:36.399 you'd find all the links down the description to the 3216 02:42:36.440 --> 02:42:40.799 things we talked about here, going commando, his jiu jitsu dojo, 3217 02:42:40.920 --> 02:42:44.280 all that good stuff LinkedIn will be down there. For 3218 02:42:44.319 --> 02:42:46.360 those of you who are watching this on YouTube or 3219 02:42:46.360 --> 02:42:50.319 listening to the podcast, you check down the description. Randy, 3220 02:42:50.360 --> 02:42:52.559 thanks for taking all this time tonight to talk to 3221 02:42:52.639 --> 02:42:55.479 us and walk us through your career and your story. 3222 02:42:55.520 --> 02:42:57.200 It's a really like unique experience. 3223 02:42:58.159 --> 02:42:59.120 Yeah, I appreciate it. 3224 02:42:59.159 --> 02:42:59.319 You know. 3225 02:42:59.479 --> 02:43:02.239 The one thing that I noticed over the years is 3226 02:43:02.479 --> 02:43:04.159 there's a lot of guys like me that I call 3227 02:43:04.239 --> 02:43:07.840 C students that that have been an SF and and 3228 02:43:08.079 --> 02:43:10.280 you know, all these things happen and you don't notice 3229 02:43:10.319 --> 02:43:11.000 it until, like. 3230 02:43:10.959 --> 02:43:12.799 You go back to like the Fifth Group reunion. 3231 02:43:12.840 --> 02:43:14.559 I went to a couple of those, and you talk 3232 02:43:14.639 --> 02:43:17.040 to some of the guys and you realize that the 3233 02:43:17.239 --> 02:43:19.319 you know, a lot of the new guys they don't 3234 02:43:19.360 --> 02:43:22.760 realize like what a crazy, wild world it was back 3235 02:43:22.799 --> 02:43:26.079 before things, you know, back before the money flowed and 3236 02:43:26.120 --> 02:43:27.319 we were having to kind. 3237 02:43:27.159 --> 02:43:30.559 Of oh yeah, you know, oh yeah, guys, get talk 3238 02:43:30.639 --> 02:43:33.520 to some of the old guys about Bad Tolts or 3239 02:43:33.639 --> 02:43:37.120 Fort Gulik and Panama and you will hear some stories. 3240 02:43:37.479 --> 02:43:39.360 You will hear some real stories. 3241 02:43:40.280 --> 02:43:43.399 Absolutely, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it was 3242 02:43:43.399 --> 02:43:43.879 a good time. 3243 02:43:44.040 --> 02:43:46.719 Yeah, thank you, Randy, and thanks everyone who joined us today. 3244 02:43:47.319 --> 02:43:50.200 We'll see you guys next time. And uh, Randy, thanks 3245 02:43:50.239 --> 02:43:52.319 a lot. 3246 02:43:51.680 --> 02:43:52.280 My pleasure. 3247 02:43:54.319 --> 02:43:56.120 Hey, guys, I want to tell all of you today 3248 02:43:56.239 --> 02:43:59.399 about a new newsletter that we're launching that encompasses both 3249 02:43:59.479 --> 02:44:03.319 the team House podcast, the eyes On podcast, and the 3250 02:44:03.440 --> 02:44:07.440 high Side news outlet, which I run with Sean Naylor. Uh. 3251 02:44:07.719 --> 02:44:10.959 The newsletter is gonna be once a week. It's gonna 3252 02:44:10.959 --> 02:44:13.479 come into your inbox and you're gonna get the most 3253 02:44:13.479 --> 02:44:17.920 current podcasts on eyes On and the Teamhouse and whatever's 3254 02:44:18.479 --> 02:44:21.719 topical or current on the high Side. So it's another 3255 02:44:21.719 --> 02:44:23.399 way for us to get the information out to you. 3256 02:44:23.840 --> 02:44:27.399 As social media algorithms are pretty iffy and you never 3257 02:44:27.440 --> 02:44:29.760 really know what you're gonna get. So this is a 3258 02:44:29.799 --> 02:44:32.479 once a week email. It'll slide into your inbox and 3259 02:44:32.520 --> 02:44:34.799 it will have you know the greatest hits of that week. 3260 02:44:34.879 --> 02:44:39.559 It's really good checking it out. The website for it 3261 02:44:39.639 --> 02:44:44.399 is Teamhouse Podcast, dot kit dot com slash Join Teamhouse 3262 02:44:44.440 --> 02:44:48.440 Podcast dot kit dot com slash join. Uh. You go 3263 02:44:48.559 --> 02:44:50.920 there and you enter into your email list or you 3264 02:44:51.079 --> 02:44:54.920 enter your email into the little thing on the website 3265 02:44:55.000 --> 02:44:57.520 and you're good to go and that'll be it. So 3266 02:44:57.559 --> 02:45:01.040 we really appreciate your support and hope consider signing up 3267 02:45:01.239 --> 02:45:04.959 the link. The link will also be down the description 3268 02:45:05.120 --> 02:45:06.399 if you're looking for it there. 3269 02:45:06.399 --> 02:45:11.600 And that's Teamhouse Podcast, dot Kit, k I, t Kilo India, 3270 02:45:11.639 --> 02:45:13.959 Tango dot com. 3271 02:45:13.959 --> 02:46:02.440 Backslash joints as