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<v Speaker 1>So back in the summer of 2011, investigators in Michigan

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<v Speaker 1>were facing this just absolute geographical nightmare.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, the Baby Kate case.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, yeah. This young child, who the media ended up

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<v Speaker 1>calling Baby Kate, had tragically gone missing. And the suspect,

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<v Speaker 1>her father, gave police this incredibly vague account of where

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<v Speaker 1>he had been that day. So based on his timeline

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<v Speaker 1>and his vehicle... the search grid ballooned to cover like

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<v Speaker 1>seven different counties.

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<v Speaker 2>Which is just a massive area.

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<v Speaker 1>It's impossible. I mean, searching seven counties for a single

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<v Speaker 1>hidden location is like looking for a needle in a haystack,

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<v Speaker 1>if the haystack was the size of a mountain range.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>But the investigators, they have the suspect's shoes.

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<v Speaker 2>And those shoes were covered in a very fine, seemingly

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<v Speaker 2>inconsequential layer of dirt and plant matter.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which is where a botanist named Matt Von Conrad

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<v Speaker 1>stepped in. Because he didn't just look at the shoes

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<v Speaker 1>and see mud. He put the debris under a microscope.

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<v Speaker 1>and found a highly specific combination of moss fragments. And

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<v Speaker 1>because moss is incredibly picky about its environment, requiring very

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<v Speaker 1>specific levels of shade and moisture and soil acidity, that

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<v Speaker 1>combination of microscopic plants served as essentially a GPS coordinate.

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<v Speaker 2>It's amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>It took a search grid of seven counties, this impossibly

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<v Speaker 1>vast expanse of land, and shrank it down to a

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<v Speaker 1>microhabitat measured in tens of square feet.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>So today we are diving into a stack of research

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<v Speaker 1>and case files on something called forensic botany.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a practice of treating plants, twigs, seeds, pollen, and

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<v Speaker 1>moss as physical evidence in criminal investigations. And our mission

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<v Speaker 1>today is to explore how nature's quietest organisms keep a

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<v Speaker 1>stubborn record of human actions. Yep. especially when human witnesses

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<v Speaker 1>lie or disappear.

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<v Speaker 2>It is a remarkable field, but we should probably establish

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<v Speaker 2>a baseline right away.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Plants are not magical oracles. We aren't talking about some

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<v Speaker 2>mystical connection to the forest.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Plants are physical evidence, and they're governed by strict ecological rules.

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<v Speaker 2>They have biological schedules. They are restricted to specific growing ranges,

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<v Speaker 2>and they carry unique genetic fingerprints.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's unpack this, because it sounds almost like a superpower.

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<v Speaker 1>But it is deeply grounded in biology. Exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>When we look at a crime scene in a forest

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<v Speaker 2>or a field, the expectation is that the crime is

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<v Speaker 2>simply unwitnessed. But if you can read the ecology, you

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<v Speaker 2>realize the environment itself is documenting the event.

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<v Speaker 1>Before we get into the molecular genetics and the high-tech

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<v Speaker 1>side of this, I want the listener to try something.

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<v Speaker 1>Look down at your shoes right now. Or think about

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<v Speaker 1>the jacket you wore the last time you went for

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<v Speaker 1>a walk outside.

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<v Speaker 2>Mm-hmm.

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<v Speaker 1>What microscopic evidence are you unknowingly carrying with you? Because

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<v Speaker 1>you are carrying something.

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<v Speaker 2>You absolutely are. I mean, every single time you step outside,

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<v Speaker 2>you are moving through the bulk of Earth's living biomass.

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<v Speaker 2>You're brushing against pollen, picking up spores, crushing leaves, and

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<v Speaker 2>transferring organic material from the landscape straight to your clothing,

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<v Speaker 2>your hair, and your vehicle.

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<v Speaker 1>It's everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>The environment is constantly rubbing off on you.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to visualize how we even got to the

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<v Speaker 1>point where a court of law would accept this, though.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't just walk into a courtroom with a microscopic

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<v Speaker 1>piece of moss and point at a suspect.

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<v Speaker 2>No.

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<v Speaker 1>There has to be a foundation, like a precedent for

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<v Speaker 1>treating nature as a witness.

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<v Speaker 2>You need an incredibly strong precedent. And the foundation for

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<v Speaker 2>forensic botany in the courtroom doesn't begin with a microscope

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<v Speaker 2>and a leaf. It begins with a ladder.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Specifically in what was arguably the most famous criminal investigation

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<v Speaker 2>in American history.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, the 1932 Lindbergh baby kidnapping.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the one.

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<v Speaker 1>This was the quote unquote trial of the century. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>Charles Lindbergh was an international hero for his solo transatlantic flight.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So when his 20 month old son was taken from

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<v Speaker 1>his nursery in Hopewell, New Jersey, the entire country just

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<v Speaker 1>came to a standstill.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a massive deal.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a tragedy that ended with the child found dead.

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<v Speaker 1>But the kidnapper made a critical mistake. They left a

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<v Speaker 1>homemade wooden ladder behind at the scene.

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<v Speaker 2>And that homemade ladder became the most scrutinized piece of

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<v Speaker 2>physical evidence in the world at that time. Wow. And

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<v Speaker 2>that's where Arthur Kohler enters the picture. Kohler was a

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<v Speaker 2>wood identification expert at the United States Forest Products Laboratory

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<v Speaker 2>in Madison, Wisconsin.

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<v Speaker 1>I have to pause on that because it's such an

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<v Speaker 1>interesting historical detail. He wasn't a police scientist. No. He

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't a detective.

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<v Speaker 2>Not at all. Kohler spent his days answering industrial questions

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<v Speaker 2>for lumber yards and builders. He studied wood grain, milling marks,

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<v Speaker 2>and how different species of boards shrank and swelled based

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<v Speaker 2>on ambient moisture. So when federal investigators brought him the

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<v Speaker 2>Lindbergh Ladder, he approached it with a purely industrial anatomical methodology.

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<v Speaker 1>So he just stripped away the context of the murder

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<v Speaker 1>and looked at the biology of the wood.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly. He first identified the species used to construct the ladder,

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<v Speaker 2>which were Douglas fir, ponderosa pine, and birch. Because softwoods

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<v Speaker 2>and hardwoods have fundamentally different cellular structures, hardwoods like birch

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<v Speaker 2>contain specialized cells called vessels for transporting water, which look

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<v Speaker 2>like tiny pores under magnification.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I see. Right?

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<v Speaker 2>And softwoods like pine lack these vessels and rely on

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<v Speaker 2>a different cell type called trachyids. So Kohler could easily

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<v Speaker 2>prove the species.

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<v Speaker 1>But knowing the latter was made of pine doesn't catch

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<v Speaker 1>a kidnapper. Millions of things are made of pine.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, exactly. Exactly. The breakthrough in the sources comes when

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<v Speaker 2>he narrows his focus to one specific rail of the ladder.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Because a piece of pine is not just a generic material.

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<v Speaker 2>It grew in a specific place during specific weather conditions.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Kohler studied the individual rail and noticed two crucial things. First,

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<v Speaker 2>it had four very distinctive square nail holes.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Second, the pattern of the annual winds, you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>concentric circles you see when you cut a tree down.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>That indicated that this specific rail hadn't just been milled

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<v Speaker 2>directly from a log. The curvature and spacing of the

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<v Speaker 2>ring showed that it had been sawn off from a

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<v Speaker 2>much wider pre-existing board.

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<v Speaker 1>I love the mechanics of this. So Kohler maps out

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<v Speaker 1>the physical geometry of this wood. He tracks the milling

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<v Speaker 1>marks to specific machines and specific lumber yards. And eventually,

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<v Speaker 1>the investigation leads police to the Bronx apartment of a

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<v Speaker 1>carpenter named Bruno Richard Hauptman.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>They search his home. They go up into his attic

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<v Speaker 1>and they find a floorboard with a large section missing.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is where the analog methodology just reaches its peak.

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<v Speaker 2>Kohler takes the ladder rail from the crime scene and

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<v Speaker 2>the damaged floorboard from Hopman's attic and places them side

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<v Speaker 2>by side.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>The pattern of the annual tree rings flowed perfectly from

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<v Speaker 2>the attic board into the ladder rail.

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<v Speaker 1>No way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And furthermore, the four square nail holes in the

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<v Speaker 2>ladder rail aligned exactly with the floor joists in the

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<v Speaker 2>attic where the original board had been nailed down.

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<v Speaker 1>So a piece of wood is essentially a jigsaw puzzle

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<v Speaker 1>piece with a biological barcode printed on the side.

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<v Speaker 2>That is a brilliant way to frame it. Tree wings

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<v Speaker 2>are entirely dictated by the environment. A year with heavy

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<v Speaker 2>rainfall produces a wide, thick ring because the tree grew rapidly.

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<v Speaker 2>A drought year produces a narrow, dense ring. That sequence

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<v Speaker 2>of wide and narrow bands becomes a permanent barcode of

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<v Speaker 2>the weather that specific tree experienced.

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<v Speaker 1>That's crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>The wood in the attic and the wood at the

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<v Speaker 2>crime scene shared the exact same barcode. They were undeniably

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<v Speaker 2>once a single plank.

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm imagining the defense attorneys at the time, this

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<v Speaker 1>is 1935 when it goes to trial. Yeah. They must

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<v Speaker 1>have fought violently to keep this guy off the stand.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, they fought tooth and nail. The defense argument was literally,

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<v Speaker 2>and I quote, there is no animal known among men

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<v Speaker 2>as an expert in wood.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. They tried to frame him as a charlatan because

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<v Speaker 2>forensic wood analysis simply wasn't a recognized legal concept. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>It was totally new.

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<v Speaker 2>But the judge recognized the empirical rigor of Kohler's work

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<v Speaker 2>and allowed the testimony. By doing so, that judge permanently

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<v Speaker 2>opened the courtroom door for dendrochronology, which is the study

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<v Speaker 2>of tree rings and botanical anatomy.

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<v Speaker 1>It's an incredible foundation. Just a man with a deep

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<v Speaker 1>understanding of cellular structure, tracing the geometry of a tree.

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<v Speaker 1>But we're talking about a massive piece of lumber here. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>A ladder is macroscopic evidence. It makes sense that if

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<v Speaker 1>you have a giant plank of wood, you can match

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<v Speaker 1>the grain.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure.

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<v Speaker 1>My question is, how does this transition to the microscopic?

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<v Speaker 1>What happens when the evidence isn't a ladder, but just

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<v Speaker 1>a single leaf or a seed?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that requires a monumental leap in the science. We

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<v Speaker 2>have to move away from visual anatomical matching and dive

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<v Speaker 2>into molecular genetics.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>The case that pushed forensic botany into the genetic age

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<v Speaker 2>happened recently. 60 years after the Lindbergh trial in a

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<v Speaker 2>vastly different landscape.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're looking at 1992 in Maricopa County, Arizona. A

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<v Speaker 1>dirt bike rider is out in the desert west of

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<v Speaker 1>Phoenix and discovers the body of a woman named Denise

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<v Speaker 1>Johnson in a dry wash. It's a desolate area, but

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<v Speaker 1>right near where she was found, there's a small cluster

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<v Speaker 1>of Palo Verde trees.

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<v Speaker 2>And Palo Verdes are incredibly common in the Sonoran Desert.

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<v Speaker 2>They have this green bark that can photosynthesize And they

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<v Speaker 2>drop these very distinct seed pods.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. So investigators process the scene and they find a pager,

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<v Speaker 1>which was a big deal in 1992. Oh, yeah. Huge.

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<v Speaker 1>And that pager leads them to a suspect named Mark Bogan. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>Bogan admits to police that he knew the victim. However,

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<v Speaker 1>he is adamant that he was never at that specific

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<v Speaker 1>desert dump site. He claims his truck never went anywhere

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<v Speaker 1>near that wash.

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<v Speaker 2>But the physical scene contradicted him. A detective named Charlie

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<v Speaker 2>Norton noticed that one of the Palo Verde trees near

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<v Speaker 2>the body, a tree they cataloged as PV-30, had a fresh,

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<v Speaker 2>raw scrape on a lower branch.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>It looked exactly as if a vehicle had driven past

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<v Speaker 2>in the brush and clipped the tree.

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<v Speaker 1>And when police execute a search warrant on Bogan's pickup truck,

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<v Speaker 1>they look in the truck bed and they find two

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<v Speaker 1>Palo Verde seed pods. Right. Now, I'm putting myself in

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<v Speaker 1>the shoes of a defense attorney here. Finding a seed

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<v Speaker 1>pod from a tree that grows all over Arizona inside

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<v Speaker 1>a pickup truck in Arizona doesn't seem like a smoking gun.

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<v Speaker 1>It feels entirely circumstantial.

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<v Speaker 2>And under normal circumstances, it would be. The defense would

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<v Speaker 2>just say, you know, a pod fell on his truck

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<v Speaker 2>while he was parked at the grocery store. To deep

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<v Speaker 2>that defense, Detective Norton asked a question that no one

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<v Speaker 2>had ever asked in a U.S. criminal court. He reached

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<v Speaker 2>out to a plant geneticist at the University of Arizona

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<v Speaker 2>named Timothy Hellant-Jarsis.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>And he asked, can you prove that these two specific

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<v Speaker 2>pods in the truck came from that one specific scraped

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<v Speaker 2>tree at the crime scene?

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<v Speaker 1>Which is a wild request for 1992. I mean, human

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<v Speaker 1>DNA profiling in courts was still relatively new and highly contested.

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<v Speaker 1>Asking to profile a bush in the desert is a

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<v Speaker 1>huge swing.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a massive risk. Hellant-Jarsis decided to employ a

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<v Speaker 2>technique that was cutting edge at the time called RAPD.

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<v Speaker 2>That stands for randomly amplified polymorphic DNA.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. I think we need an ELI 5 here. Like,

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<v Speaker 1>explain it like I'm 5 on RAPD. Because randomly amplified

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<v Speaker 1>polymorphic DNA is a mouthful. How does this actually work?

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<v Speaker 2>Fair enough. Imagine the DNA of a tree is an

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<v Speaker 2>encyclopedia containing millions of sentences.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Instead of trying to read the entire encyclopedia from start

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<v Speaker 2>to finish, which would take years, RAPD acts like a

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<v Speaker 2>search function that looks for a few very specific random sentences.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, I see.

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<v Speaker 2>You take the DNA from the seed pod and you

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<v Speaker 2>take the DNA from the crime scene tree. You apply

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<v Speaker 2>chemicals that search for those random sentences.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>If the pod and the tree both produce the exact

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<v Speaker 2>same pattern of sentences and no other tree produces that pattern,

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<v Speaker 2>you have a match.

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<v Speaker 1>But how do you prove that in court? How do

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<v Speaker 1>you prove that another tree down the street wouldn't just

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<v Speaker 1>happen to have the same sentences? Ah. This is what

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<v Speaker 1>stood out to me in the sources. The absolute rigor...

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<v Speaker 1>of the scientific method the police applied to their own scientist.

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<v Speaker 2>The blind test.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>It is a beautiful piece of investigative work. To ensure

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<v Speaker 2>Helen Joris wasn't just finding a generic Palo Verde profile,

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<v Speaker 2>the police drove all around Phoenix. They went to Bogan's house,

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<v Speaker 2>his workplace, his favorite bars, and they collected seed pods

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<v Speaker 2>from 18 random Palo Verde trees.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>They sent all 18 samples to Helen Joris, but they

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<v Speaker 2>also secretly slipped in extra unlabeled material from the crime

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<v Speaker 2>scene tree PV30.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, that's smart.

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<v Speaker 2>They essentially said, all right, prove it.

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<v Speaker 1>And the results are phenomenal. Helen Jaras runs the RAPD analysis.

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<v Speaker 1>None of the 18 random trees matched the pods found

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<v Speaker 1>in the suspect's truck. Right. But the sample from the

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<v Speaker 1>crime scene tree matched. And the secret blind sample the

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<v Speaker 1>police slipped in also matched.

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<v Speaker 2>If we connect this to the bigger picture, this case

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<v Speaker 2>proved that an individual plant, not just a broad species,

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<v Speaker 2>but a single living organism... can be a unique source

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<v Speaker 2>of trace evidence.

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<v Speaker 1>That's incredible.

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<v Speaker 2>It established that plant genetics could withstand the exact same

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<v Speaker 2>hostile cross-examination and rigorous courtroom standards that are applied to

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<v Speaker 2>human DNA.

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<v Speaker 1>But wait, I want to clarify a detail about the

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<v Speaker 1>biology here, because the success of this case hinged on

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<v Speaker 1>the background population.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>The sources mention that palaverdes in the wild are outbred.

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<v Speaker 1>They rely on insects to cross-pollinate them, meaning every seed

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<v Speaker 1>is a genetic mix of different parent trees.

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<v Speaker 2>Mm-hmm.

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<v Speaker 1>They are incredibly genetically noisy. What would happen if this

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00:13:15.769 --> 00:13:18.029
<v Speaker 1>crime took place in a suburban neighborhood next to a

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<v Speaker 1>row of landscape trees?

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<v Speaker 2>That is a critical limitation to understand. If a landscaper

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<v Speaker 2>plants 20 identical cloned maple trees down a suburban street,

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<v Speaker 2>they are all genetically identical. They are grown from cuttings

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<v Speaker 2>of a single parent. So if a leaf from one

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<v Speaker 2>of those maples falls into a suspect's car, DNA analysis

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<v Speaker 2>cannot tell you which of the 20 trees it came from.

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<v Speaker 1>Because they're clones.

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00:13:42.129 --> 00:13:46.490
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. The RAPD technique would show the exact same sentences

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<v Speaker 2>for all of them. The match in Arizona was only

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<v Speaker 2>powerful because the background population of wild desert trees was

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<v Speaker 2>so diverse.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that makes total sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Forensic botanists have to constantly evaluate whether the flora at

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<v Speaker 2>a scene is actually informative or practically useless. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>If everyone in the room has the exact same fingerprint,

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00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:06.299
<v Speaker 1>dusting for prints doesn't help you.

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00:14:06.460 --> 00:14:07.039
<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So we've established that a single genetically unique tree... can

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00:14:10.389 --> 00:14:13.820
<v Speaker 1>tether a suspect to a specific location. But this assumes

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00:14:13.860 --> 00:14:16.460
<v Speaker 1>the police know where the crime scene is. What happens

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00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:20.539
<v Speaker 1>when investigators have a victim but absolutely no location? If

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00:14:20.580 --> 00:14:23.080
<v Speaker 1>the landscape is a mystery, how can plants help?

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00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:25.659
<v Speaker 2>To solve that problem, we have to shrink our scale

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00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:29.580
<v Speaker 2>even further. We move from the macroscopic ladder past the

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00:14:29.620 --> 00:14:32.909
<v Speaker 2>seed pod down to something that is biologically engineered to

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00:14:32.950 --> 00:14:35.590
<v Speaker 2>travel through the air. We are talking about pollen.

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<v Speaker 1>I am fascinated by pollen. Because when I think of pollen,

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<v Speaker 1>I just think of the yellow dust covering my windshield

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<v Speaker 1>in the spring that makes me sneeze.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's most people.

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00:14:44.980 --> 00:14:48.039
<v Speaker 1>But structurally, it is incredibly resilient.

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00:14:48.259 --> 00:14:52.169
<v Speaker 2>It is practically indestructible in the natural environment. The outer

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00:14:52.210 --> 00:14:54.269
<v Speaker 2>wall of a pollen grain is made of a polymer

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<v Speaker 2>called sporopollinin. Sporopollinin?

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00:14:57.230 --> 00:14:57.610
<v Speaker 1>Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>You can think of sporopollinin as microscopic Kevlar.

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00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:01.669
<v Speaker 1>Oh, wow.

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00:15:01.769 --> 00:15:04.840
<v Speaker 2>It is one of the most durable organic materials on Earth.

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00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:08.919
<v Speaker 2>It evolved to protect the fragile genetic material inside from

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<v Speaker 2>UV radiation, drying out, and physical damage while the pollen

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00:15:13.269 --> 00:15:15.649
<v Speaker 2>travels on the wind or on the legs of an insect.

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00:15:15.929 --> 00:15:18.629
<v Speaker 1>And because it's so tough, it acts like a geographical ochre.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to look at a deeply tragic case from

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00:15:21.870 --> 00:15:26.340
<v Speaker 1>June 2015 that perfectly illustrates this. A dog walker on

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00:15:26.389 --> 00:15:30.539
<v Speaker 1>Boston's Deer Island found a garbage bag containing the remains

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00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:33.340
<v Speaker 1>of a small girl. She became known in the media

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<v Speaker 1>as Boston's Baby Doe.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, I remember that.

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<v Speaker 1>The police were at a total dead end. She had

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00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:43.120
<v Speaker 1>no usable fingerprints, generic clothing, and a nationwide composite image

354
00:15:43.419 --> 00:15:47.220
<v Speaker 1>yielded no credible leads. But the investigators decided to look

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00:15:47.259 --> 00:15:48.039
<v Speaker 1>closer at the scene.

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<v Speaker 2>They brought in analysts who essentially vacuumed the child's hair,

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00:15:53.149 --> 00:15:55.990
<v Speaker 2>her clothing, and a blanket she was found with, specifically

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<v Speaker 2>targeting trace botanical evidence.

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00:15:57.909 --> 00:16:01.929
<v Speaker 1>I'm just picturing crime scene techs vacuuming a toddler's blanket.

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00:16:01.950 --> 00:16:04.690
<v Speaker 1>It sounds so delicate. But also, what are they actually

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00:16:04.730 --> 00:16:05.429
<v Speaker 1>hoping to find?

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00:16:05.629 --> 00:16:06.129
<v Speaker 2>Well.

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00:16:06.149 --> 00:16:09.110
<v Speaker 1>To the naked eye, they're just collecting dust. How does

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00:16:09.169 --> 00:16:10.149
<v Speaker 1>dust solve a murder?

365
00:16:10.409 --> 00:16:13.090
<v Speaker 2>Because that dust isn't just dirt. It contains pollen grains

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00:16:13.149 --> 00:16:15.600
<v Speaker 2>that act as a botanical recipe of the environment the

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00:16:15.620 --> 00:16:16.320
<v Speaker 2>child had been in.

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00:16:16.460 --> 00:16:17.000
<v Speaker 1>A recipe.

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00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:21.759
<v Speaker 2>Forensic botanists call these recipes assemblages. When the analysts looked

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00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:23.960
<v Speaker 2>at the pollen from the child, they found a mix

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00:16:24.059 --> 00:16:25.659
<v Speaker 2>dominated by oak and pine.

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00:16:26.139 --> 00:16:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Which doesn't seem that helpful, right? I mean, oak and

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00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:31.100
<v Speaker 1>pine cover massive portions of the northeastern United States.

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00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:35.519
<v Speaker 2>True. But an assemblage is about the combination of elements.

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00:16:36.220 --> 00:16:39.179
<v Speaker 2>Alongside the common oak and pine, they found pollen from

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00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:41.120
<v Speaker 2>privet and cedar of Lebanon.

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00:16:41.500 --> 00:16:44.470
<v Speaker 1>Neither of which are wild native plants you'd find deep

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00:16:44.490 --> 00:16:46.250
<v Speaker 1>in a New England forest. Exactly.

379
00:16:46.690 --> 00:16:50.009
<v Speaker 2>Privet is a common ornamental hedge. Cedar of Lebanon is

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00:16:50.049 --> 00:16:52.649
<v Speaker 2>an exotic tree often planted in landscaping.

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00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:53.519
<v Speaker 1>Oh, interesting.

382
00:16:53.659 --> 00:16:57.039
<v Speaker 2>These are plants you find in residential suburbs, manicured parks,

383
00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:02.149
<v Speaker 2>and domestic yards. Furthermore, the analysts found microscopic soot particles

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00:17:02.250 --> 00:17:03.490
<v Speaker 2>mixed in with the pollen.

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00:17:03.929 --> 00:17:04.289
<v Speaker 1>Soot?

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00:17:04.609 --> 00:17:09.369
<v Speaker 2>Yes, which strongly indicated an urban or highly trafficked environment.

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00:17:09.670 --> 00:17:12.349
<v Speaker 1>So instead of looking at thousands of square miles of

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00:17:12.450 --> 00:17:17.650
<v Speaker 1>rural forest or distant states, this microscopic cocktail of pollen

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00:17:17.690 --> 00:17:21.529
<v Speaker 1>and soot points investigators firmly toward an urban landscaped environment.

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00:17:21.789 --> 00:17:24.609
<v Speaker 2>It radically shrank the map. It told investigators where not

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00:17:24.650 --> 00:17:27.369
<v Speaker 2>to look, which saved thousands of hours of wasted effort.

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00:17:27.569 --> 00:17:27.809
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

393
00:17:27.990 --> 00:17:31.170
<v Speaker 2>Within months, focusing on local urban areas, the child was

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00:17:31.230 --> 00:17:35.410
<v Speaker 2>identified as Bella Bond, a two-year-old from Dorchester, a residential

395
00:17:35.470 --> 00:17:36.309
<v Speaker 2>Boston neighborhood.

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00:17:36.349 --> 00:17:36.890
<v Speaker 1>That's incredible.

397
00:17:37.089 --> 00:17:40.029
<v Speaker 2>Pollen is rarely going to give you a specific street address,

398
00:17:40.710 --> 00:17:42.589
<v Speaker 2>but it acts as an ecological constraint.

399
00:17:43.210 --> 00:17:45.519
<v Speaker 1>And because that spore of pollen and armor is so tough,

400
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:49.440
<v Speaker 1>this ecological constraint can last for staggering amounts of time.

401
00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:50.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh, absolutely.

402
00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:53.829
<v Speaker 1>There is a case in the sources from Austria in 1959.

403
00:17:53.829 --> 00:17:57.549
<v Speaker 1>Investigators were trying to locate a body, and they were

404
00:17:57.589 --> 00:18:01.769
<v Speaker 1>examining mud caked on a suspect's boots. In that mud,

405
00:18:02.009 --> 00:18:04.049
<v Speaker 1>they found fossilized hickory pollen.

406
00:18:04.410 --> 00:18:07.170
<v Speaker 2>Fossilized pollen can be tens of millions of years old.

407
00:18:07.890 --> 00:18:10.890
<v Speaker 2>When pollen settles into sediment, and that sediment eventually turns

408
00:18:10.930 --> 00:18:14.690
<v Speaker 2>to stone, the spore pollen coat survives the geological pressure.

409
00:18:14.970 --> 00:18:18.279
<v Speaker 1>Tens of millions of years. And because geology is so

410
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:21.440
<v Speaker 1>thoroughly mapped, Experts knew that there was only one very

411
00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:25.359
<v Speaker 1>specific eroded rock outcrop in the entire region that contained

412
00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:27.930
<v Speaker 1>that exact stratum of fossilized hickory pollen.

413
00:18:27.970 --> 00:18:28.349
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

414
00:18:28.569 --> 00:18:30.450
<v Speaker 1>The dirt on the boot was tied to a rock

415
00:18:30.490 --> 00:18:34.210
<v Speaker 1>formation millions of years old. Police went to that exact outcrop,

416
00:18:34.529 --> 00:18:35.690
<v Speaker 1>and that is where they found the body.

417
00:18:35.869 --> 00:18:38.890
<v Speaker 2>It's a phenomenal demonstration of pollen as a constraint.

418
00:18:39.029 --> 00:18:39.269
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

419
00:18:39.509 --> 00:18:42.660
<v Speaker 2>But we should also note that plants don't just stick

420
00:18:42.700 --> 00:18:45.549
<v Speaker 2>to the outside of us. We consume them. And the

421
00:18:45.630 --> 00:18:49.789
<v Speaker 2>durability of plant structures extends to forensic digestion analysis.

422
00:18:49.930 --> 00:18:52.890
<v Speaker 1>Yes, the concept of the last meal. I was reading

423
00:18:52.910 --> 00:18:57.279
<v Speaker 1>about Dr. Jane Bach, a prominent forensic botanist who pioneered

424
00:18:57.299 --> 00:19:00.140
<v Speaker 1>a lot of this work. She analyzed the stomach contents

425
00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:03.440
<v Speaker 1>of victims to help establish timelines. But I have a

426
00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.269
<v Speaker 1>fundamental question about this. If human stomach acid can dissolve

427
00:19:07.329 --> 00:19:10.730
<v Speaker 1>a thick piece of steak, why can't we still identify

428
00:19:10.769 --> 00:19:12.250
<v Speaker 1>the herbs from a slice of pizza?

429
00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:16.430
<v Speaker 2>It comes down to cellular architecture. Animal cells, like the

430
00:19:16.470 --> 00:19:19.369
<v Speaker 2>cells in a steak, are essentially water balloons. They have

431
00:19:19.390 --> 00:19:22.990
<v Speaker 2>a very thin, flexible lipid membrane that stomach acid and

432
00:19:23.009 --> 00:19:26.420
<v Speaker 2>digestive enzymes break down very quickly. Plant cells, however, are

433
00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:29.700
<v Speaker 2>built like brick walls. They have a rigid outer layer

434
00:19:29.740 --> 00:19:32.980
<v Speaker 2>made of cellulose, which provides the plant with structural support.

435
00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:35.980
<v Speaker 1>And humans can't digest cellulose. We don't have the enzymes

436
00:19:36.029 --> 00:19:38.710
<v Speaker 1>for it. That's why celery is basically negative calories.

437
00:19:39.150 --> 00:19:43.019
<v Speaker 2>Precisely. The structural integrity of the plant cells survives the

438
00:19:43.059 --> 00:19:47.029
<v Speaker 2>chemical bath of the stomach. In one of her cases, Dr.

439
00:19:47.049 --> 00:19:50.779
<v Speaker 2>Bach was able to identify fragments of oregano, grass, and

440
00:19:50.910 --> 00:19:55.339
<v Speaker 2>other specific vegetation still visually recognizable in a victim's stomach.

441
00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:55.819
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

442
00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:00.039
<v Speaker 2>Because biologists understand the gastric emptying rate, you know, how

443
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:02.119
<v Speaker 2>long it takes for a stomach to push food into

444
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:06.680
<v Speaker 2>the intestines, identifying that oregano corroborated exactly when the victim

445
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:07.339
<v Speaker 2>had last eaten.

446
00:20:07.750 --> 00:20:09.190
<v Speaker 1>Which locks in the timeline.

447
00:20:09.289 --> 00:20:12.109
<v Speaker 2>That, in turn, locked in the timeline of the crime itself.

448
00:20:12.849 --> 00:20:15.529
<v Speaker 1>Here's where it gets really interesting, though. We've talked about

449
00:20:15.609 --> 00:20:18.950
<v Speaker 1>pollen shrinking the map to a general neighborhood or tying

450
00:20:18.990 --> 00:20:22.589
<v Speaker 1>someone to a geological outcrop. But the sources highlight a

451
00:20:22.630 --> 00:20:26.059
<v Speaker 1>case involving a British forensic ecologist named Patricia Wiltshire.

452
00:20:26.660 --> 00:20:27.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh, Pollen Pat.

453
00:20:27.740 --> 00:20:30.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Pollen Pat, where she did something that sounds almost supernatural.

454
00:20:30.859 --> 00:20:33.480
<v Speaker 1>She used pollen to find a hyperlocal location.

455
00:20:33.779 --> 00:20:36.240
<v Speaker 2>Wiltshire is a legend in the field. She worked a

456
00:20:36.269 --> 00:20:38.950
<v Speaker 2>case where she vacuumed the footwell and the pedals of

457
00:20:38.990 --> 00:20:43.329
<v Speaker 2>a suspect's vehicle. She extracted the pollen assemblage, that cocktail

458
00:20:43.369 --> 00:20:46.589
<v Speaker 2>of microscopic grains. But she didn't just say, this comes

459
00:20:46.609 --> 00:20:50.089
<v Speaker 2>from a forest. She realized the assemblage was so uniquely

460
00:20:50.150 --> 00:20:53.049
<v Speaker 2>diverse that it had to come from a very complex,

461
00:20:53.089 --> 00:20:54.369
<v Speaker 2>specific landscape.

462
00:20:54.450 --> 00:20:57.970
<v Speaker 1>And she literally goes out to the countryside, finds a

463
00:20:58.049 --> 00:21:01.700
<v Speaker 1>long hedgerow bordering a field, and starts walking along it.

464
00:21:01.910 --> 00:21:04.670
<v Speaker 2>She walked the edge of this field, continuously observing the

465
00:21:04.710 --> 00:21:07.990
<v Speaker 2>visible flora. She was looking at the physical plants growing

466
00:21:08.029 --> 00:21:10.930
<v Speaker 2>in front of her, comparing them mentally to the microscopic

467
00:21:11.019 --> 00:21:12.380
<v Speaker 2>recipe she had pulled from the car.

468
00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:12.799
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

469
00:21:13.130 --> 00:21:16.160
<v Speaker 2>She walked until the physical plants aligned perfectly with the

470
00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:20.740
<v Speaker 2>pollen data. Right at a specific spot along this massive hedge,

471
00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:23.359
<v Speaker 2>the mix of vegetation was exactly right.

472
00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:26.920
<v Speaker 1>She just stops and says, it's here. And the police

473
00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:28.559
<v Speaker 1>confirmed that was the exact dump site.

474
00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:31.220
<v Speaker 2>It proves that if the landscape is diverse enough, if

475
00:21:31.259 --> 00:21:33.740
<v Speaker 2>you have a sudden shift from a wet ditch to

476
00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:38.130
<v Speaker 2>a dry bank, With different weeds and shrubs occupying overlapping zones,

477
00:21:38.569 --> 00:21:41.970
<v Speaker 2>the pollen signal isn't just a regional broadcast. It becomes

478
00:21:42.029 --> 00:21:43.490
<v Speaker 2>a hyperlocal fingerprint.

479
00:21:43.849 --> 00:21:47.420
<v Speaker 1>That is just astounding. So pollen and dirt can act

480
00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:49.900
<v Speaker 1>as a map, telling us where an event took place.

481
00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:53.599
<v Speaker 1>But nature is dynamic. It doesn't pause when a tragedy occurs.

482
00:21:54.099 --> 00:21:57.240
<v Speaker 1>A forest keeps growing. So what happens when the mystery

483
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:00.859
<v Speaker 1>isn't where the crime happened, but when? If police find

484
00:22:00.900 --> 00:22:03.460
<v Speaker 1>remains in the woods... How can plants tell us if

485
00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:05.200
<v Speaker 1>they've been there for two years or 20 years?

486
00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:09.859
<v Speaker 2>This brings us to the concept of postmortem intervals, or PMI,

487
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:14.740
<v Speaker 2>established through botanical clocks. When a body is deposited outdoors,

488
00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:19.099
<v Speaker 2>it creates a disturbance. Soil is turned over, plants are crushed,

489
00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:22.460
<v Speaker 2>and eventually the remains become part of the substrate. The

490
00:22:22.529 --> 00:22:28.549
<v Speaker 2>surrounding flora reacts to that disturbance. Moss colonizes exposed surfaces.

491
00:22:29.150 --> 00:22:33.089
<v Speaker 2>Roots seek out the moisture and nutrients associated with decomposition.

492
00:22:33.349 --> 00:22:35.750
<v Speaker 1>And because we know how plants grow, we can measure

493
00:22:35.789 --> 00:22:36.430
<v Speaker 1>that reaction.

494
00:22:36.589 --> 00:22:40.730
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. The sources detail a fascinating case from Massachusetts. Investigators

495
00:22:40.789 --> 00:22:44.390
<v Speaker 2>uncovered a clandestine grave. During the excavation, they found a

496
00:22:44.470 --> 00:22:46.750
<v Speaker 2>tree root that had grown laterally through the soil and

497
00:22:46.789 --> 00:22:50.490
<v Speaker 2>passed directly through the skeletal remains, weaving right through the bones.

498
00:22:50.569 --> 00:22:53.369
<v Speaker 1>Oh, wow. A root is just searching for water, and

499
00:22:53.390 --> 00:22:55.650
<v Speaker 1>it finds this nutrient-rich pocket in the soil.

500
00:22:55.880 --> 00:23:00.529
<v Speaker 2>Yes. Botanists carefully extracted a cross-section of that specific root.

501
00:23:01.349 --> 00:23:05.259
<v Speaker 2>Using dendrochronology, the same principle Arthur Kuhler used in the

502
00:23:05.339 --> 00:23:09.319
<v Speaker 2>Lindbergh case, but applied to roots instead of trunks, they

503
00:23:09.380 --> 00:23:13.960
<v Speaker 2>counted the annual growth wings. Right. The root contained 27 rings.

504
00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:16.390
<v Speaker 1>Wait, so if the root growing through the skeleton is

505
00:23:16.390 --> 00:23:19.289
<v Speaker 1>27 years old, that means the skeleton had to be

506
00:23:19.329 --> 00:23:20.849
<v Speaker 1>in the ground before the root got there.

507
00:23:21.109 --> 00:23:25.390
<v Speaker 2>It establishes a hard minimum postmortem interval. The grave has

508
00:23:25.430 --> 00:23:27.190
<v Speaker 2>to be at least 27 years old.

509
00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:28.230
<v Speaker 1>That's crazy.

510
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:31.259
<v Speaker 2>It sets an absolute floor on the timeline, which instantly

511
00:23:31.299 --> 00:23:35.319
<v Speaker 2>allows detectives to filter missing persons reports, discarding anyone who

512
00:23:35.339 --> 00:23:36.839
<v Speaker 2>went missing in the last two decades.

513
00:23:36.940 --> 00:23:40.079
<v Speaker 1>The sources mention another case in Italy that used multiple

514
00:23:40.099 --> 00:23:41.819
<v Speaker 1>plant clocks simultaneously. Yes.

515
00:23:42.099 --> 00:23:45.769
<v Speaker 2>Skeletal remains were found in a dense hedge. Botanists analyzed

516
00:23:45.829 --> 00:23:48.369
<v Speaker 2>roots that had grown into the victim's shoes. One shoe

517
00:23:48.410 --> 00:23:50.269
<v Speaker 2>had a root with three years of growth. The other

518
00:23:50.309 --> 00:23:51.950
<v Speaker 2>had a root with six years of growth.

519
00:23:51.970 --> 00:23:52.170
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

520
00:23:52.940 --> 00:23:54.980
<v Speaker 2>But they also looked at an elder shrub that had

521
00:23:55.019 --> 00:23:58.480
<v Speaker 2>grown entirely over the site. The area was subject to

522
00:23:58.539 --> 00:24:02.109
<v Speaker 2>routine municipal hedge trimming. The botanists reasoned that the body

523
00:24:02.140 --> 00:24:04.190
<v Speaker 2>would have been exposed if it had been there during

524
00:24:04.230 --> 00:24:07.829
<v Speaker 2>the last major trimming cycle. By combining the root rings

525
00:24:07.869 --> 00:24:11.470
<v Speaker 2>with the age of the overgrowth, they confidently bracketed the

526
00:24:11.509 --> 00:24:14.819
<v Speaker 2>time of disposal between the late 1990s and 2006.

527
00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:17.400
<v Speaker 1>It's as if the environment is slowly building a cage

528
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:21.680
<v Speaker 1>of time around the evidence. But we keep talking about grand,

529
00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:24.700
<v Speaker 1>long-term processes like tree rings and massive roots.

530
00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:25.039
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

531
00:24:25.460 --> 00:24:27.039
<v Speaker 1>Can this work on a shorter timescale?

532
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:27.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

533
00:24:27.500 --> 00:24:30.740
<v Speaker 1>What about mundane plants, like weeds in a vacant lot?

534
00:24:31.180 --> 00:24:34.660
<v Speaker 2>It absolutely works with mundane plants, often through the biology

535
00:24:34.700 --> 00:24:37.529
<v Speaker 2>of trauma and regrowth. We can look at Patricia Wiltshire

536
00:24:37.589 --> 00:24:40.650
<v Speaker 2>again and her work on the 2002 Soham murders in

537
00:24:40.670 --> 00:24:41.150
<v Speaker 2>the UK.

538
00:24:41.309 --> 00:24:41.529
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

539
00:24:41.910 --> 00:24:45.109
<v Speaker 2>The bodies of two young girls, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman,

540
00:24:45.150 --> 00:24:48.269
<v Speaker 2>were tragically found in a ditch. That ditch was thickly

541
00:24:48.329 --> 00:24:49.619
<v Speaker 2>overgrown with stinging nettles.

542
00:24:50.170 --> 00:24:53.130
<v Speaker 1>So when the perpetrator entered the ditch to hide the bodies,

543
00:24:53.670 --> 00:24:55.710
<v Speaker 1>they had to trample the nettles. Precisely.

544
00:24:56.230 --> 00:24:59.049
<v Speaker 2>When a plant like a stinging metal is violently flattened,

545
00:24:59.490 --> 00:25:02.410
<v Speaker 2>its main vertical stem is often damaged or bent flat,

546
00:25:02.769 --> 00:25:06.799
<v Speaker 2>interrupting its normal upward growth. The plant undergoes a physiological response.

547
00:25:07.660 --> 00:25:10.339
<v Speaker 2>It breaks its apical dominance, which is the tendency to

548
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:14.019
<v Speaker 2>grow straight up, and redirects its energy into pushing out

549
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:17.759
<v Speaker 2>new lateral side shoots from the nodes along the flattened stem,

550
00:25:17.980 --> 00:25:18.759
<v Speaker 2>seeking sunlight.

551
00:25:18.990 --> 00:25:20.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh, it's adapting to the trauma. Yes.

552
00:25:21.740 --> 00:25:25.240
<v Speaker 2>Wiltshire examined the length and development of those new lateral

553
00:25:25.339 --> 00:25:29.400
<v Speaker 2>side shoots on the trampled nettles under the bodies. Based

554
00:25:29.460 --> 00:25:32.279
<v Speaker 2>on the temperature, the season, and the known growth rates

555
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:35.859
<v Speaker 2>of that specific weed, she calculated that the regrowth took

556
00:25:35.980 --> 00:25:36.900
<v Speaker 2>roughly two weeks.

557
00:25:37.420 --> 00:25:37.660
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

558
00:25:38.019 --> 00:25:42.339
<v Speaker 2>That two-week botanical clock perfectly corroborated the timeline of the suspect,

559
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:45.549
<v Speaker 2>Ian Huntley, ultimately helping to secure his conviction.

560
00:25:45.650 --> 00:25:48.750
<v Speaker 1>It is deeply impressive. But I imagine there are major

561
00:25:48.769 --> 00:25:51.589
<v Speaker 1>caveats here. Nature isn't a digital stopwatch.

562
00:25:51.970 --> 00:25:54.069
<v Speaker 2>It is not, and that is a crucial point for

563
00:25:54.289 --> 00:25:59.079
<v Speaker 2>any forensic botanist testifying in court. Botanists provide minimums and ranges,

564
00:25:59.140 --> 00:26:01.880
<v Speaker 2>not exact obituaries. Right. Think back to the root with

565
00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:04.900
<v Speaker 2>27 rings. That tells us the root is 27 years old,

566
00:26:04.940 --> 00:26:06.500
<v Speaker 2>but it doesn't tell us how many years it took

567
00:26:06.539 --> 00:26:08.240
<v Speaker 2>for the root to travel through the soil and reach

568
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:11.039
<v Speaker 2>the grave in the first place. Furthermore, if a tree

569
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:14.859
<v Speaker 2>experiences severe trauma or extreme drought, it might simply not

570
00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:17.589
<v Speaker 2>produce a ring that year. A missing ring can throw

571
00:26:17.630 --> 00:26:19.829
<v Speaker 2>off a timeline if an expert isn't careful.

572
00:26:20.250 --> 00:26:23.230
<v Speaker 1>So the expert has to constantly qualify their findings, like,

573
00:26:23.589 --> 00:26:25.210
<v Speaker 1>this grave is at least this old.

574
00:26:25.410 --> 00:26:27.950
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. You are providing a biological bracket.

575
00:26:28.150 --> 00:26:30.279
<v Speaker 1>We've covered a lot of ground here. We have Kohler's

576
00:26:30.339 --> 00:26:34.259
<v Speaker 1>wood grain matching, Helen Jaris using RAPD DNA to match

577
00:26:34.299 --> 00:26:37.799
<v Speaker 1>a seed pod, pollen acting as a geological anchor, and

578
00:26:37.859 --> 00:26:39.000
<v Speaker 1>roots acting as clocks.

579
00:26:39.059 --> 00:26:39.980
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a lot.

580
00:26:40.339 --> 00:26:43.950
<v Speaker 1>If these botanical tools are so staggeringly powerful, my question is,

581
00:26:44.430 --> 00:26:48.079
<v Speaker 1>why isn't this standard protocol? Why isn't a botanist at

582
00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:49.400
<v Speaker 1>every single crime scene?

583
00:26:49.619 --> 00:26:53.630
<v Speaker 2>Because the reality of forensic botany is incredibly unglamorous. The

584
00:26:53.650 --> 00:26:56.470
<v Speaker 2>science is sound, but the mechanics of the discipline, you know,

585
00:26:56.549 --> 00:26:59.690
<v Speaker 2>how evidence is transferred, how it is collected, the brutal

586
00:26:59.769 --> 00:27:02.349
<v Speaker 2>fights in the courtroom and the sheer scarcity of qualified

587
00:27:02.430 --> 00:27:04.710
<v Speaker 2>experts create massive bottlenecks.

588
00:27:05.029 --> 00:27:07.630
<v Speaker 1>Let's start with transfer. Because if I am a criminal

589
00:27:07.730 --> 00:27:10.079
<v Speaker 1>and I know I just dragged something through a patch

590
00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:12.920
<v Speaker 1>of stinging nettles, my first instinct is to go home,

591
00:27:13.460 --> 00:27:15.710
<v Speaker 1>throw my clothes in the washing machine on hot, And

592
00:27:15.769 --> 00:27:16.829
<v Speaker 1>pressure wash my truck.

593
00:27:16.930 --> 00:27:17.170
<v Speaker 2>Right.

594
00:27:18.130 --> 00:27:21.309
<v Speaker 1>Does this evidence really survive a determined cleanup?

595
00:27:21.970 --> 00:27:25.819
<v Speaker 2>It survives far more often than criminals think because microscopic

596
00:27:25.890 --> 00:27:30.759
<v Speaker 2>plant matter is tenacious. Transfer doesn't require a violent struggle. Okay.

597
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:33.779
<v Speaker 2>A seed pod falls into a truck bed simply because

598
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:37.700
<v Speaker 2>a branch hangs low over a dirt road. Pollen gets

599
00:27:37.779 --> 00:27:40.319
<v Speaker 2>trapped deep in the fibers of a fleece jacket because

600
00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:42.539
<v Speaker 2>fleece acts like a microscopic net.

601
00:27:42.700 --> 00:27:43.019
<v Speaker 1>Oh, sure.

602
00:27:43.490 --> 00:27:46.250
<v Speaker 2>You kneel down in a damp patch of soil and

603
00:27:46.329 --> 00:27:49.049
<v Speaker 2>moss fragments wedge themselves into the stitching.

604
00:27:48.750 --> 00:27:50.690
<v Speaker 1>Of your boots. And a washing machine doesn't get that out.

605
00:27:51.150 --> 00:27:54.220
<v Speaker 2>A washing machine cleans the broad surfaces, but it rarely

606
00:27:54.279 --> 00:27:57.279
<v Speaker 2>flushes out the deep seams of denim, the Velcro on

607
00:27:57.319 --> 00:28:00.160
<v Speaker 2>a jacket, or the internal tread of a work boot.

608
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:03.599
<v Speaker 2>Botanists know exactly where to look for these hidden assemblages.

609
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:07.880
<v Speaker 2>They check the stair tire wells of vehicles, the air filters,

610
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:11.430
<v Speaker 2>the deeply embedded ridges of brake pedals. or even the

611
00:28:11.490 --> 00:28:13.849
<v Speaker 2>roots of a suspect's hair long after a shower.

612
00:28:14.450 --> 00:28:15.170
<v Speaker 1>That's crazy.

613
00:28:15.349 --> 00:28:19.079
<v Speaker 2>To the naked eye, the suspect looks clean. Under a microscope,

614
00:28:19.099 --> 00:28:20.799
<v Speaker 2>they are still covered in the landscape.

615
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:23.759
<v Speaker 1>But if it's that tenacious, the bottleneck must be at

616
00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:27.319
<v Speaker 1>the crime scene itself. The detective is actually collecting the material.

617
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:31.130
<v Speaker 2>This is where cases are most frequently lost. The average

618
00:28:31.170 --> 00:28:35.049
<v Speaker 2>crime scene investigator is trained to look for blood, ballistic casings,

619
00:28:35.269 --> 00:28:37.930
<v Speaker 2>and fingerprints. They are not trained to look for a

620
00:28:37.970 --> 00:28:41.619
<v Speaker 2>broken twig or a specific species of grass. Right. When

621
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:45.720
<v Speaker 2>botanical evidence is collected, it is often collected improperly. Plant

622
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:49.299
<v Speaker 2>matter sealed in airtight plastic bags will quickly rot and mold,

623
00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:50.599
<v Speaker 2>destroying the DNA.

624
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.799
<v Speaker 1>Oh, man. I read a detail in the sources that

625
00:28:53.819 --> 00:28:57.849
<v Speaker 1>made me wince. The absolute nightmare scenario for a botanist

626
00:28:58.089 --> 00:29:00.410
<v Speaker 1>is a detective arriving at the lab and handing them

627
00:29:00.470 --> 00:29:02.309
<v Speaker 1>a plastic bag labeled Leaves from the Woods.

628
00:29:02.450 --> 00:29:05.990
<v Speaker 2>Oh, it is infuriating because it renders the evidence practically useless.

629
00:29:06.390 --> 00:29:08.779
<v Speaker 2>Suppose a detective hands me a leaf found on a

630
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:11.759
<v Speaker 2>victim's body. If they don't bring me anything else, what

631
00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:15.640
<v Speaker 2>am I comparing it to? Best practice in botanical collection

632
00:29:15.740 --> 00:29:19.630
<v Speaker 2>is highly cinematic. You must photograph the plants in place

633
00:29:19.710 --> 00:29:24.269
<v Speaker 2>before anything is moved. You collect from the body. But crucially...

634
00:29:24.180 --> 00:29:26.799
<v Speaker 2>you must collect a systematic set of control samples from

635
00:29:26.819 --> 00:29:27.940
<v Speaker 2>the surrounding environment.

636
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:30.650
<v Speaker 1>This goes right back to the Palo Verde tree in Arizona. Yeah.

637
00:29:30.809 --> 00:29:33.490
<v Speaker 1>You have to establish the background population. Exactly.

638
00:29:33.609 --> 00:29:35.630
<v Speaker 2>If you bag the leaves near the victim, you must

639
00:29:35.829 --> 00:29:39.210
<v Speaker 2>also bag labeled control samples from 10 meters north, 10

640
00:29:39.210 --> 00:29:42.299
<v Speaker 2>meters south, 20 meters away, and from the path leading

641
00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:44.680
<v Speaker 2>to the scene. Yeah. If you don't know what is

642
00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:48.140
<v Speaker 2>normal for that specific forest, you cannot prove that the

643
00:29:48.180 --> 00:29:50.559
<v Speaker 2>leaf on the suspect's shoe is uniquely tied to the

644
00:29:50.599 --> 00:29:51.140
<v Speaker 2>crime scene.

645
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:54.819
<v Speaker 1>Which brings up the risk of overclaiming. Whenever a scientific

646
00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:58.240
<v Speaker 1>method yields amazing results, there is a temptation to treat

647
00:29:58.279 --> 00:29:58.859
<v Speaker 1>it like magic.

648
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.119
<v Speaker 2>This raises an important question about the ethical duty of

649
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:07.279
<v Speaker 2>the expert. Every powerful method attracts overconfidence. Plant DNA was

650
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:11.670
<v Speaker 2>revolutionary in 1992, but the RAPD method Helen Jarrus used

651
00:30:11.750 --> 00:30:14.750
<v Speaker 2>is no longer the gold standard. It could be finicky

652
00:30:14.869 --> 00:30:18.470
<v Speaker 2>and hard to reproduce perfectly in different labs. Modern forensic

653
00:30:18.490 --> 00:30:20.490
<v Speaker 2>genetics prefers more stable markers.

654
00:30:21.029 --> 00:30:25.390
<v Speaker 1>The sources mention things like SNPs and microsatellites. Again, I

655
00:30:25.430 --> 00:30:28.589
<v Speaker 1>need an ELI-5 on this. What is the difference between

656
00:30:28.789 --> 00:30:30.450
<v Speaker 1>RAPD and SNP?

657
00:30:30.690 --> 00:30:36.099
<v Speaker 2>Well, SNP stands for a single nucleotide polymorphism. If DNA

658
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:39.180
<v Speaker 2>is an instruction manual, a SNP is a single letter

659
00:30:39.259 --> 00:30:42.900
<v Speaker 2>typo in a specific word. It is highly precise and

660
00:30:42.980 --> 00:30:46.339
<v Speaker 2>easy to verify. Microsatellites are areas of the DNA where

661
00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:49.200
<v Speaker 2>a short sequence of letters stutters and repeats over and

662
00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:52.279
<v Speaker 2>over again. Counting the number of stutters is highly reproducible.

663
00:30:52.420 --> 00:30:52.720
<v Speaker 1>Got it.

664
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Moving to these markers makes the science more robust, but

665
00:30:55.460 --> 00:30:57.359
<v Speaker 2>it requires highly specialized labs.

666
00:30:57.420 --> 00:31:00.420
<v Speaker 1>And even with robust science, botanists can disagree, right? Yeah.

667
00:31:00.579 --> 00:31:02.839
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking of the Casey Anthony trial in Florida.

668
00:31:02.900 --> 00:31:03.259
<v Speaker 2>Oh, yes.

669
00:31:03.339 --> 00:31:05.829
<v Speaker 1>That was a massive media circus, and forensic botany was

670
00:31:05.890 --> 00:31:06.559
<v Speaker 1>right in the middle of it.

671
00:31:06.869 --> 00:31:09.250
<v Speaker 2>It was a prime example of how messy this can get.

672
00:31:09.650 --> 00:31:13.410
<v Speaker 2>You had a forensic botanist testifying for the defense, examining

673
00:31:13.470 --> 00:31:16.309
<v Speaker 2>the root growth and leaf litter around where young Kaylee

674
00:31:16.390 --> 00:31:17.650
<v Speaker 2>Anthony's remains were found.

675
00:31:17.859 --> 00:31:18.059
<v Speaker 1>Mm-hmm.

676
00:31:18.470 --> 00:31:22.299
<v Speaker 2>The defense expert used that botanical analysis to directly challenge

677
00:31:22.339 --> 00:31:25.200
<v Speaker 2>the prosecution's timeline of when the body was placed there.

678
00:31:25.500 --> 00:31:27.819
<v Speaker 1>And a jury of laypeople is sitting there listening to

679
00:31:27.859 --> 00:31:31.339
<v Speaker 1>two scientists argue about leaf litter. How do they know

680
00:31:31.380 --> 00:31:31.960
<v Speaker 1>who to believe?

681
00:31:32.339 --> 00:31:36.670
<v Speaker 2>They often don't. Juries struggle to weigh dueling scientific interpretations,

682
00:31:37.329 --> 00:31:39.569
<v Speaker 2>which is why the expert has a profound duty to

683
00:31:39.630 --> 00:31:40.369
<v Speaker 2>remain objective.

684
00:31:40.490 --> 00:31:40.710
<v Speaker 1>Right.

685
00:31:40.829 --> 00:31:43.569
<v Speaker 2>You have a responsibility to be dull when the data

686
00:31:43.670 --> 00:31:46.859
<v Speaker 2>is dull. If the roots only give you a minimum range,

687
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:50.359
<v Speaker 2>you emphasize the range. You don't tell a dramatic, definitive

688
00:31:50.420 --> 00:31:52.190
<v Speaker 2>story if the biology doesn't support it.

689
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:55.660
<v Speaker 1>But perhaps the biggest hurdle isn't the science itself, but

690
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:58.609
<v Speaker 1>the lack of scientists. There just aren't that many people

691
00:31:58.650 --> 00:31:59.029
<v Speaker 1>doing this.

692
00:31:59.230 --> 00:32:02.970
<v Speaker 2>Professional forensic botanists are incredibly rare compared to the volume

693
00:32:02.990 --> 00:32:06.029
<v Speaker 2>of outdoor crime scenes. It is almost always a side

694
00:32:06.089 --> 00:32:10.420
<v Speaker 2>practice for a university professor or an ecological consultant. Because

695
00:32:10.460 --> 00:32:13.940
<v Speaker 2>there isn't a botanist on every police payroll, plant evidence

696
00:32:14.019 --> 00:32:17.130
<v Speaker 2>is missed far more often than it is utilized. simply

697
00:32:17.170 --> 00:32:19.630
<v Speaker 2>because the reflex to look for it isn't ingrained in

698
00:32:19.670 --> 00:32:20.609
<v Speaker 2>standard policing.

699
00:32:20.769 --> 00:32:24.339
<v Speaker 1>So what does the future hold? If the bottleneck is

700
00:32:24.380 --> 00:32:27.720
<v Speaker 1>the sheer difficulty of training detectives to spot this stuff,

701
00:32:28.339 --> 00:32:31.009
<v Speaker 1>and the time it takes a human expert to analyze it,

702
00:32:31.660 --> 00:32:33.819
<v Speaker 1>is technology going to bridge that gap?

703
00:32:34.299 --> 00:32:38.180
<v Speaker 2>Technology is already bridging the gap, and the implications are staggering.

704
00:32:38.970 --> 00:32:42.430
<v Speaker 2>We are currently seeing a massive shift toward environmental DNA,

705
00:32:42.509 --> 00:32:46.549
<v Speaker 2>or eDNA, and a process called pollen metabarcoding.

706
00:32:46.750 --> 00:32:49.390
<v Speaker 1>Metabarcoding, meaning instead of looking at one thing at a time,

707
00:32:49.410 --> 00:32:51.750
<v Speaker 1>you're reading multiple barcodes simultaneously.

708
00:32:52.089 --> 00:32:56.200
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. Historically, a palynologist, a pollen expert, would sit at

709
00:32:56.240 --> 00:33:00.740
<v Speaker 2>a microscope for hours, manually counting and identifying individual microscopic

710
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:03.660
<v Speaker 2>pollen grains against a massive reference library.

711
00:33:03.779 --> 00:33:04.579
<v Speaker 1>Sounds exhausting.

712
00:33:04.859 --> 00:33:08.369
<v Speaker 2>It is exhausting specialized work. With metabarcoding, an analyst can

713
00:33:08.380 --> 00:33:11.670
<v Speaker 2>take a single swab of dust vacuumed from a suspect's jacket...

714
00:33:11.660 --> 00:33:14.079
<v Speaker 2>run it through a sequencer, and instantly read the genetic

715
00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:17.559
<v Speaker 2>signatures of dozens of different plant species mixed in that dust.

716
00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:19.759
<v Speaker 1>You just read the whole genetic soup all at once?

717
00:33:19.779 --> 00:33:23.529
<v Speaker 2>Yes. It massively speeds up the initial phase of an investigation.

718
00:33:24.130 --> 00:33:27.650
<v Speaker 2>Instead of weeks of microscopic analysis, a computer tells you

719
00:33:27.710 --> 00:33:31.170
<v Speaker 2>within days that the dust on a victim's clothing contains

720
00:33:31.309 --> 00:33:33.990
<v Speaker 2>urban privet, cedar, pine, and oak.

721
00:33:34.670 --> 00:33:35.670
<v Speaker 1>That's incredible.

722
00:33:36.210 --> 00:33:38.490
<v Speaker 2>But I must stress you still need the human expert.

723
00:33:39.109 --> 00:33:42.369
<v Speaker 2>A computer can list the species. But a human botanist

724
00:33:42.450 --> 00:33:45.819
<v Speaker 2>is required to interpret what that mixture actually means, whether

725
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:48.900
<v Speaker 2>it points to a rural forest or a landscaped suburban park.

726
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.680
<v Speaker 1>It is just an incredible evolution. We've gone from Arthur

727
00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:55.539
<v Speaker 1>Kohler staring at square nail holes and wood grain under

728
00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:59.920
<v Speaker 1>a magnifying glass in 1932 to Timothy Helen Jarris extracting

729
00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:02.789
<v Speaker 1>DNA from a desert seed pod to the near future

730
00:34:02.849 --> 00:34:06.269
<v Speaker 1>where a sequencer can map an entire microscopic ecosystem from

731
00:34:06.309 --> 00:34:07.329
<v Speaker 1>a single swab of dust.

732
00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:11.280
<v Speaker 2>The technological arc is breathtaking, but the underlying principle hasn't

733
00:34:11.320 --> 00:34:13.039
<v Speaker 2>changed since 1932.

734
00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:15.039
<v Speaker 1>Which brings us back to the core premise of why

735
00:34:15.099 --> 00:34:18.719
<v Speaker 1>plants are such perfect detectives. They don't have an agenda. No.

736
00:34:18.929 --> 00:34:21.690
<v Speaker 1>A tree does not recant its testimony. A patch of

737
00:34:21.789 --> 00:34:25.409
<v Speaker 1>moss cannot be bribed or intimidated. A stinging nettle doesn't

738
00:34:25.449 --> 00:34:28.449
<v Speaker 1>forget what season it was trampled. Exactly. Their memory is

739
00:34:28.530 --> 00:34:32.289
<v Speaker 1>entirely physical and stubborn. A thick ring of wood from

740
00:34:32.309 --> 00:34:35.760
<v Speaker 1>a rainy year, an indestructible spore of pollen and coat

741
00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:38.920
<v Speaker 1>surviving for millions of years... or a bent stem putting

742
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:40.059
<v Speaker 1>out new shoots in the dark.

743
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:43.239
<v Speaker 2>They are not skeleton keys, of course. Forensic botany will

744
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:46.219
<v Speaker 2>not solve every murder. Right. The vast majority of cases

745
00:34:46.460 --> 00:34:49.159
<v Speaker 2>are still and will continue to be solved by cell

746
00:34:49.179 --> 00:34:51.969
<v Speaker 2>phone records, surveillance cameras, and human DNA.

747
00:34:52.250 --> 00:34:54.650
<v Speaker 1>But they are the safety net. They are the threads

748
00:34:54.730 --> 00:34:58.090
<v Speaker 1>that hold an investigation together when the human evidence rots

749
00:34:58.150 --> 00:35:02.530
<v Speaker 1>away or lies or simply doesn't exist. In cold cases

750
00:35:02.789 --> 00:35:05.429
<v Speaker 1>or in vast rural environments where there are no cameras.

751
00:35:06.110 --> 00:35:08.750
<v Speaker 1>A microscopic seed pod or a few grains of pollen

752
00:35:09.030 --> 00:35:12.489
<v Speaker 1>can completely shift the trajectory of a search. So think

753
00:35:12.510 --> 00:35:14.090
<v Speaker 1>back to the question I asked at the very beginning

754
00:35:14.130 --> 00:35:16.389
<v Speaker 1>of this deep dive. The next time you take a

755
00:35:16.429 --> 00:35:18.510
<v Speaker 1>walk through a park or hike a trail in the woods,

756
00:35:19.030 --> 00:35:22.210
<v Speaker 1>realize that you are participating in a constant invisible exchange.

757
00:35:22.570 --> 00:35:25.030
<v Speaker 1>You are leaving a trace of yourself behind, and you

758
00:35:25.070 --> 00:35:27.750
<v Speaker 1>are taking a microscopic piece of that landscape with you

759
00:35:28.030 --> 00:35:30.550
<v Speaker 1>on your shoes and your clothes. So what does this

760
00:35:30.590 --> 00:35:33.449
<v Speaker 1>all mean? It means the natural world is not just

761
00:35:33.469 --> 00:35:36.559
<v Speaker 1>a passive backdrop. It is always watching. And it is

762
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:37.320
<v Speaker 1>always recording.

763
00:35:37.659 --> 00:35:40.010
<v Speaker 2>And if we extrapolate that idea into the future, we

764
00:35:40.050 --> 00:35:44.170
<v Speaker 2>arrive at a rather profound, perhaps even unsettling thought. We

765
00:35:44.190 --> 00:35:48.489
<v Speaker 2>discussed the rapid advancement of environmental DNA and pollen metabarcoding.

766
00:35:49.050 --> 00:35:52.250
<v Speaker 2>As this technology becomes cheaper and infinitely more sensitive to

767
00:35:52.269 --> 00:35:55.639
<v Speaker 2>the point where we can read entire microscopic ecosystems from

768
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:58.500
<v Speaker 2>a casual swab of a doorknob or a shoe, we

769
00:35:58.559 --> 00:35:59.579
<v Speaker 2>are entering a new era.

770
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:00.280
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

771
00:36:00.340 --> 00:36:02.599
<v Speaker 2>We shed DNA everywhere we go and we pick up

772
00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:06.030
<v Speaker 2>eDNA from everywhere we've been. If our physical environment is

773
00:36:06.130 --> 00:36:10.449
<v Speaker 2>constantly silently mapping our exact movements through these biological assemblages,

774
00:36:10.849 --> 00:36:13.269
<v Speaker 2>and if every room, every street corner, and every park

775
00:36:13.309 --> 00:36:17.269
<v Speaker 2>develops a unique, instantly readable biological signature, does the concept

776
00:36:17.369 --> 00:36:20.010
<v Speaker 2>of an unwitnessed space effectively cease to exist?

777
00:36:20.469 --> 00:36:24.030
<v Speaker 1>Wow. If a machine can swab your shoe and tell

778
00:36:24.050 --> 00:36:26.690
<v Speaker 1>you every plant you walk past today, that is both

779
00:36:26.730 --> 00:36:30.650
<v Speaker 1>a miraculous tool for justice and an incredibly haunting reality.

780
00:36:30.670 --> 00:36:33.139
<v Speaker 1>It really is. The woods are never truly empty. They

781
00:36:33.179 --> 00:36:35.940
<v Speaker 1>are keeping the ledger. Well, that is all for our

782
00:36:35.980 --> 00:36:38.010
<v Speaker 1>deep dive today. Thank you so much for joining us

783
00:36:38.110 --> 00:36:40.789
<v Speaker 1>as we explore the silent witnesses in the woods. Keep

784
00:36:40.809 --> 00:36:42.929
<v Speaker 1>your eyes on the trees and we will catch you

785
00:36:42.989 --> 00:36:43.929
<v Speaker 1>on the next deep dive.
