Speaker 1: All right, everybody, tonight's episode of Wrestle Magic, we are
Speaker 1: talking about under push stars. We're gonna have a little
Speaker 1: bit of fun tonight. Of course, we being the gardener
Speaker 1: and Dariel and myself. So without further ado, guys, how
Speaker 1: are we doing tonight?
Speaker 2: Dariel, how are you doing?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 2: Doing?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 2: That's what I like to hear. By the way, do
Speaker 2: you have a monitor? What do you? What do you?
Speaker 2: What do you go by?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: I'm the gardener because I love the garden. What about you, Dariel?
Speaker 3: I never really thought of one.
Speaker 2: Well, then I guess maybe we should let the listeners
Speaker 2: name you. That's kind of like how I got my name,
Speaker 2: because everybody knows I'd love to grow hot peppers, and
Speaker 2: I made some really awesome Carolina reapers this year. So
Speaker 2: I just want to keep going with that flow. How
Speaker 2: about you, Mav? How you doing? Brother? Maintenance? Mav?
Speaker 4: Just another day and maintenance?
Speaker 1: Man, things have been interesting lately, I'll say that much.
Speaker 1: I can't give too much away. You guys know how
Speaker 1: that is.
Speaker 2: Well, I understand that, But what are you going to return?
Speaker 4: Well, we'll see.
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like I'm kind of back, right
Speaker 1: now for whatever it is that we're doing, and honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm glad that we can be a part of this
Speaker 1: for the moment.
Speaker 4: But anyways, yeah, let's get right into it.
Speaker 1: So, yes, tonight we're talking about under Pushed Stars Gardner,
Speaker 1: do you want to start off man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, So there's a person that I was really
Speaker 2: a big fan of, but they killed the character off
Speaker 2: because of the way that they had portrayed him during
Speaker 2: the timeline of what was happening in real history. And
Speaker 2: I'm talking about none other than and this is going
Speaker 2: to be controversial, Mohammed Hassan. First of all, the man
Speaker 2: who portrayed Mohammed Assan was actually Italian, and while his
Speaker 2: life in ww was his, his wife's span in WWE
Speaker 2: was very short. He exuded a weird charisma. He could
Speaker 2: get under everybody's skin. He could do He was great
Speaker 2: in the ring. He wasn't I mean, he wasn't Rob
Speaker 2: Van damn flippy, He wasn't Randy Orton captivating, he wasn't
Speaker 2: seeing punk charisma. But he had a little bit of each.
Speaker 2: He had about thirty percent of each, well ninety percent,
Speaker 2: and he had something. The way he portrayed his character
Speaker 2: of the anti you know, the person that had what
Speaker 2: he felt was reverse racism. It was an interesting character,
Speaker 2: and I honestly think that the money in the character
Speaker 2: would have been eventually a face turn. However, it never
Speaker 2: got to be that long because WWE wasted him by
Speaker 2: using him in a terrorist angle against the Undertaker and
Speaker 2: then using what seemed to be terrorists as henchmen right
Speaker 2: after bombings in London.
Speaker 4: Oh God, that just seems way too far man.
Speaker 2: And the thing is, they had this filmed, it was
Speaker 2: in the can. They could have cut it out, they
Speaker 2: could have put somethingthing else, and there's other ways to
Speaker 2: do this. Now, wwe' has always claimed, well, we didn't
Speaker 2: know about the bombings until the day of things like that.
Speaker 2: There's always he she it. So they sent him back
Speaker 2: down to OVW down here in Louisville, and then you know,
Speaker 2: they released the guy, but it wasn't his fault. And
Speaker 2: basically I think I don't know which network it was.
Speaker 2: I want to say it might have been still up
Speaker 2: and at the time they said, if this guy's still
Speaker 2: on your show, we're canceling your show. Now. They weren't
Speaker 2: big on massd wrestlers at the time, but throw the
Speaker 2: guy a mask and let him wrestle somebody else. There's
Speaker 2: no reason a fire man who clearly he could do
Speaker 2: some stuff in the ring, and he had something on
Speaker 2: the mic. There's ways of repack somebody. They just didn't
Speaker 2: give that benefit. They were just so afraid of being
Speaker 2: canceled by the network. Where okay, switch them over to
Speaker 2: raw in USA under a mask. Wait six months. I
Speaker 2: feel that the man had way more potential than they
Speaker 2: ever untapped. And I feel that, like, like I said,
Speaker 2: you could have made him. I know, mass wrestling is,
Speaker 2: I guess some say pass. I still kind of miss
Speaker 2: some of my mass wrestlers. You go down to Mexico,
Speaker 2: they don't want you to have a bare face, so
Speaker 2: we're talking different dynamics here. So he bounced around. And
Speaker 2: then the man became a school teacher. God bless him.
Speaker 2: He educated people. He does wrestling conventions and things like
Speaker 2: that to this day. But I mean, he educates people.
Speaker 2: He even felt bad about the whole angle. He didn't,
Speaker 2: you know, when he knew what was happening on TV
Speaker 2: versus what he had filmed. He knew that his career
Speaker 2: was over. That was not fair to somebody as buddingly
Speaker 2: talented as he was. So I really feel that Mohammed
Speaker 2: Asan was given a bad hand of cards, and I
Speaker 2: think that wwe could have done better, especially knowing that
Speaker 2: they had it in the can, and they could have
Speaker 2: done something to fill those twenty minutes. There's always a way.
Speaker 2: They love their talking sentiments, There's always a way. So
Speaker 2: that's my number one. Any guys, any thoughts on Mohammed Asan.
Speaker 5: I mean, he was definitely a heat generator for sure. Now,
Speaker 5: I do think that the fact that they chose to
Speaker 5: make that character was in poor taste, just given everything
Speaker 5: that's been going on with the political climate at that time.
Speaker 5: That was just a terrible idea and to scapegoat to
Speaker 5: a dude's career or I don't know, some really bs patriotism,
Speaker 5: It was just kind of it was not a savory
Speaker 5: thing to experience. And I mean I was, you know,
Speaker 5: a teenager when he was on TV, and even then
Speaker 5: I was just like, I don't know about this.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: That the whole patriotic angles and everything. It always kind of,
Speaker 1: especially nowadays, it falls a little more flat than it
Speaker 1: used to. But we're not in the days of you know,
Speaker 1: Cold War and we need American number one all the
Speaker 1: time sort of thing. So it does just seem like
Speaker 1: just a bad idea. That's one of those things that
Speaker 1: you know that's a yeah, you're going to generate heat,
Speaker 1: for sure, but it's not good heat. You want to
Speaker 1: have somebody go out there dress as a klansman, that's
Speaker 1: not going to get you any kind of good heat.
Speaker 1: They're gonna get ran out of town, which you know
Speaker 1: might be good for that night for TV, but after
Speaker 1: that it's like you might have just ruined that person's life.
Speaker 4: It's not going to go well for them anyways.
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, on from that, uh Dariel, who would
Speaker 1: you like to add him?
Speaker 5: So normally I would just I didn't save the big
Speaker 5: one for less, but this one's pretty pretty important to me.
Speaker 3: Knyan the Innovator of Offense.
Speaker 5: Kanon did not get treated well in the w w E,
Speaker 5: mostly due to the fact that he was gay and
Speaker 5: they really did a terrible job, did a terrible thing.
Speaker 5: I'm a terrible job, just terrible thing, and like burying
Speaker 5: him so hard and just kind of making an absolute
Speaker 5: mockery of him, and then the nickname the Innovator of
Speaker 5: Offense was as not as true as you could get
Speaker 5: for this guy, because if you look at all the
Speaker 5: indie wrestlers, he basically walked so they could run everything
Speaker 5: that you see indie wrestlers do nowadays. So it's something
Speaker 5: that Kenyon did in w CW. Like as far as
Speaker 5: turbule neck breakers, as far as modified spinebusters like sit
Speaker 5: out spinebusters, the flatliner. Everyone has a flat liner finisher,
Speaker 5: everyone everyone has one, and he was the dude that
Speaker 5: really like pioneered that. And as far as like his character,
Speaker 5: you know, he was a goofball. He was silly as
Speaker 5: all get out, but he made up for the silliness
Speaker 5: when he stepped in the ring. You saw it every
Speaker 5: night that he was in the ring, Like he had
Speaker 5: great mite skills and despite the overbite that he had
Speaker 5: that kind of created a bit of a list for him.
Speaker 5: It it was more or less masked by the fact that,
Speaker 5: you know, he's from the East Coast, so he just
Speaker 5: kind of had like a typical East Coaster accent and
Speaker 5: just you know, had a little effect to it. But
Speaker 5: I mean, the dude had a great look. I mean
Speaker 5: he was like six ' four six y five or something.
Speaker 3: He was a big dude. He had a great physique.
Speaker 5: I mean when he showed up as Mortis, you know,
Speaker 5: this dude's like a Mortal Kombat sque character and demonstrated
Speaker 5: all of his skill with that character. And then when
Speaker 5: the mask came off, you know, he's done like a
Speaker 5: hat and the denim cut off, and you know, he
Speaker 5: had so much personality and it's hard to find someone
Speaker 5: like that nowadays. That just came off as that, you know,
Speaker 5: unique and organic. He just he always has something to
Speaker 5: show people. And like the Jersey Triad, you know, he
Speaker 5: had DDP in his corner.
Speaker 2: He had great little tru that that could have went
Speaker 2: far in the Attitude era in w if they would
Speaker 2: have put those three together right.
Speaker 5: But unfortunately, because the company WCW got bought out. Yes,
Speaker 5: just about every wrestler got buried, other than the ones
Speaker 5: that really got over, just because they were too big
Speaker 5: of an attraction to just throw to the wayside. And
Speaker 5: they didn't see that in Canyon, even though, come on,
Speaker 5: he had the catchphrase, and anybody who's a wrestling fan,
Speaker 5: you say, who's better?
Speaker 3: Everyone else should go than Canyon.
Speaker 5: And let's be real, I don't think there were too
Speaker 5: many people that were better than him at that time.
Speaker 2: He had a unique skill set. And I remember the
Speaker 2: first city he got over it and do you know
Speaker 2: what it is? I do not Lexington, Kentucky. He came
Speaker 2: out and he said, so, I want to ask all
Speaker 2: you Wildcat fans who's better than Canyon? And they all
Speaker 2: screamed nobody. He grabbed the mic. He said, they loved me,
Speaker 2: really loved me, right, like he.
Speaker 5: Was a character, just just as a person. You could
Speaker 5: tell that the dude just was a character. But he
Speaker 5: was unfortunately troubled by being a closeted man and a
Speaker 5: very hyper masculine and honestly in some a lot of
Speaker 5: ways tossically masculine industry. But it didn't detract from his
Speaker 5: skill in every aspect of the business.
Speaker 4: I do have one question about him.
Speaker 1: Now, Kenyan's a little bit before my time, but I
Speaker 1: know a little bit about him. Wasn't he part of
Speaker 1: a tag team called like Men at Work or something
Speaker 1: like that?
Speaker 2: Oh with Joey Maggs. Oh it was bad.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: But the point that I wanted to make here was
Speaker 1: wasn't it nineteen ninety five when WWE was coming out
Speaker 1: with all these stupid occupation gimmicks that just nobody cared about.
Speaker 4: You know, Kinge's a dentist.
Speaker 1: There was plumbers and stuff like that, and nobody could
Speaker 1: really relate to them. But thing is with men at work,
Speaker 1: It's like, even if that might have worked, why are
Speaker 1: we doing that in what was it like ninety eight
Speaker 1: or some thing? It just didn't make any sense. I
Speaker 1: never really idea.
Speaker 2: The ironic thing about that is when he came out
Speaker 2: as Mortis. So first of all, do you guys know
Speaker 2: why he was Mortis?
Speaker 4: Blood Runs Cold?
Speaker 1: That video game that was supposed to come out, it
Speaker 1: was going to be Glacier Mortis, And wasn't there a
Speaker 1: third guy that was also involved.
Speaker 2: With Glacier Wrath who turned out it was? It was
Speaker 2: Brian Clark who ended up being one part of Chronic
Speaker 2: who was also yeah, right, so Adams. It was Brian Clark.
Speaker 2: Brian Adams was Crush who ended up being his tag partner.
Speaker 2: So the idea that Eric Bishoff came up with was
Speaker 2: that Mortal Kombat was so big that they would create
Speaker 2: these characters and they were going to be main inventors.
Speaker 2: But people were buying it because Glacier was DS's in
Speaker 2: the ring and that means the drizzling s words and
Speaker 2: I mean he was god awful garbage, one of the
Speaker 2: worst performers I've ever seen in my life. But we're
Speaker 2: not going to go there. And you know, they've even
Speaker 2: interviewed Canyon. He's like, okay, look, you look terrible in
Speaker 2: the ring. You strike a pose and walk around with it.
Speaker 2: He's like, it's gotten old. You look terrible, and everybody
Speaker 2: booed them, and then they tried to push them one
Speaker 2: time where they had the nWo in the ring and
Speaker 2: some of the WCW guys came to the ring, and
Speaker 2: then the Blood Runs Cold guys came to the ring,
Speaker 2: and they kept zooming on the Blood Runs Cold guys,
Speaker 2: and the fans kept booing because they mostly would focus
Speaker 2: on Glacier. So, and if you know my story about
Speaker 2: the time I met Glacier, it's kind of funny. But
Speaker 2: the point is, do you know, well, obviously we all
Speaker 2: know like how talented Canyon was. And The Innovator of
Speaker 2: Offense was a knockoff on Tommy Dreamer's nickname of the
Speaker 2: Innovator of Violence because they had him tagging up with
Speaker 2: Perry Saturn at the time. However, he did innovate a
Speaker 2: lot of things. He did come up with a lot
Speaker 2: of moves. There were two different versions of the flat liner.
Speaker 2: One was like a fay asser over the second rope
Speaker 2: or from the second turnbuckle, and then the second one
Speaker 2: was the face first and he was the one who
Speaker 2: did it the best. Jeff Jarrett couldn't do it. The
Speaker 2: misssures Hell can't do it. He can't do a damn thing.
Speaker 2: But do you know the three famous people I can
Speaker 2: name that Canyon trained as wrestlers.
Speaker 4: I can name the young bucks.
Speaker 1: I believe we're trained by him, but I wouldn't say
Speaker 1: they're like probably the most famous.
Speaker 2: Well, they would be the most famous. That's two of them.
Speaker 2: So there's one more.
Speaker 4: I don't know the last woman.
Speaker 2: Dariel.
Speaker 3: I couldn't tell you.
Speaker 5: Brian Cage interesting, Oh okay, yeah, I just saw an
Speaker 5: interview about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so in the in the nineties to early
Speaker 2: two thousands, there was a wrestling game was like on
Speaker 2: a disc. It was all tech based that you can
Speaker 2: get for a PC like a Microsoft PC, and it
Speaker 2: was called WLS and you would put together your card
Speaker 2: and then it would generate your car to give you
Speaker 2: how everything happened. It was really cool. We used to
Speaker 2: do e feds all the time back then, using this
Speaker 2: as a system, and in between it would give you
Speaker 2: different facts about real wrestlers. It'd be like, mister j
Speaker 2: L's actually Jerry Lynn. Mister uh well, one of the
Speaker 2: fun facts. And this is not meant to be controversial.
Speaker 2: It is like it said, it is known that Raven
Speaker 2: is actually homosexual. Well, if you ever watched the Dark
Speaker 2: Side of the Ring with Canyon and some interviews with Raven,
Speaker 2: you'll find out that when Canyon moved across the United
Speaker 2: States between wrestling gigs, he had a lot of his
Speaker 2: adult material in his moving basket above his car. What
Speaker 2: he got to his play it's spilled over and his
Speaker 2: brothers found it and they're like, what's all this, And
Speaker 2: so he blames it on Raven. He said, Raven must
Speaker 2: have ribbed me. This was a joke, and so he called.
Speaker 2: He called Raven right away and he said Raven, look,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm gay. And Raven's like okay, and he's like,
Speaker 2: so you don't carry He's like, no, I don't carry,
Speaker 2: you're my friend. So Raven took that heat, not necessarily heat.
Speaker 2: I would call luke warm, but that followed his career
Speaker 2: for a while. He became like an underground rumbling there's
Speaker 2: your canyon moment of the day, and so he was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: He's like, if it's gonna protect you from your family,
Speaker 2: I'll take care.
Speaker 3: Of it fair enough, even being a stand up dude.
Speaker 1: Hell you, Yeah, I should asked him about that, but
Speaker 1: I didn't really realize at the time. But anyways, so
Speaker 1: back on the subject of our UH stars who weren't
Speaker 1: really pushed as much, so person that I want to
Speaker 1: throw into there, who they still the chance I'll say that,
Speaker 1: But the first one I'm gonna say is Ricochet.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be honest with you, guys.
Speaker 1: I feel like he was one of the best that
Speaker 1: I had seen between Lucia Underground, between his work in Japan.
Speaker 4: Even some of his WWE stuff was still good, but
Speaker 4: it felt like a neutered version of Ricochet.
Speaker 1: And that kind of did bother me to see it
Speaker 1: that way, because I mean, seeing Prince Puma back when
Speaker 1: Lucia Underground was still a thing, man, that was incredible,
Speaker 1: and then you see these talents kind of going to
Speaker 1: waste and not doing anything. Really, I think the last
Speaker 1: thing that he did in WWE is he was like
Speaker 1: a speed champion or something. I barely think he got
Speaker 1: what tag titles and maybe then you're continental if that.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if he got that, honestly, but
Speaker 1: it kind of bothered me just to see like this
Speaker 1: guy had so much potential. It was so incredible, and
Speaker 1: WWE snatched him up just so they could sit him
Speaker 1: on a shelf and say, Okay, nobody else can have you.
Speaker 1: Now we're going to make sure that nobody else is
Speaker 1: going to be able to push you for this entire time.
Speaker 1: They can't use him against us because we have you.
Speaker 1: That's all they really did with him. It bugged me
Speaker 1: so much inside. I still get really annoyed just thinking
Speaker 1: about it, because he was such a star with so
Speaker 1: much promise, and I wish they would have just let
Speaker 1: him be him and really be the star that he
Speaker 1: could have been.
Speaker 4: Any thoughts goes.
Speaker 2: Uh, you want to take it for cereal.
Speaker 3: I've seen a lot of Ricochet.
Speaker 5: Definitely an insanely talented dude, and I feel like someone
Speaker 5: of his caliber, I think it's gonna be a little
Speaker 5: hard for him to thrive in an environment like the
Speaker 5: WWE because you know, it's still kind of the big
Speaker 5: man's game there. You don't really have a whole lot
Speaker 5: of divisions for him to wrestle in outside of like Conn.
Speaker 3: Nettle and you know us and all that.
Speaker 5: And I think his move to ae W was a
Speaker 5: really smart one in the sense of, like, Okay, you
Speaker 5: are now in an environment where you can get you
Speaker 5: get to thrive in the way that you should.
Speaker 3: Now I don't know.
Speaker 5: How he's being used there right now, so it's a
Speaker 5: little it's still a hazy area for me. But everything
Speaker 5: I've seen in Ricochet has been impressive. I mean, the
Speaker 5: dude does things that as I've heard the Undertaken say it,
Speaker 5: and if you see them do it, it looks like
Speaker 5: stuff straight out of the video game. And he does
Speaker 5: it flawlessly, and he has a great look.
Speaker 3: You know. It's just I feel the WWE definitely tends to.
Speaker 5: Mistreat a lot of talent by not giving them any
Speaker 5: type of platform to like showcase their skills or limiting
Speaker 5: what they can do.
Speaker 2: I would agree with you on that. I feel like
Speaker 2: that's the basis of this this obvious conversation that we're
Speaker 2: having for this podcast. I would like to say that Ricochet.
Speaker 2: I saw him back in like twenty fifteen. I started
Speaker 2: studying independent wrestlers who I thought were going to break
Speaker 2: through the bubble, and minus one wrestler, everybody I predicted
Speaker 2: went to WWE, and that one wrestler's Ar Fox, and
Speaker 2: ar Fox is just as amazing as Ricochet. He's just
Speaker 2: a little bit older, and his build is and is
Speaker 2: exactly flattering, but he can do some amazing things. So
Speaker 2: with that being said, his matches with will Osprey, some
Speaker 2: of the ones from the past in Japan and things
Speaker 2: like that, we're a little too cartoony, they were a
Speaker 2: little too they're indiish, that's fair, honest. Yes, yes, they
Speaker 2: did way too many high spots, but you know, the
Speaker 2: guy is like talented out the frame. They thought that
Speaker 2: they had the next Ray Mysterio on him and they
Speaker 2: tried to definitely WWE him. When he was first introduced
Speaker 2: to WWUE audiences in NXT, they introduced him as Trevor Man,
Speaker 2: his real name, like, oh here's Trevor Mann. You might
Speaker 2: know him as Ricochet, and I was like, Trevor Man
Speaker 2: means nothing to people. Ricochet means something to people. If
Speaker 2: you have one hundred thousand followers who know you as
Speaker 2: Ricochet and zero followers is Trevor Man, you're starting from
Speaker 2: nothing or you're starting from something. And so they went
Speaker 2: with the Ricochet, which I liked. And you can't I
Speaker 2: don't think you can actually trademark that because it's a word.
Speaker 2: It's like trademarking tree, you know. So the matches he
Speaker 2: had were great. Some of the people he put over
Speaker 2: were not so great. I think that he was definitely
Speaker 2: a wasted talent. But at least he got miss Irvin
Speaker 2: and she's really hot and good for you, Ricochet, God
Speaker 2: bless you. She's so beautiful. Seriously, you know the way
Speaker 2: I like him have Also, I will say that with
Speaker 2: he being in AEW, they need to concentrate on his strengths.
Speaker 2: He does definitely need to work on his promo skills
Speaker 2: because his promos are mediocre best, they're not great. I
Speaker 2: think that he could have a strong promo if he
Speaker 2: actually concentrates on it a little bit more. He does
Speaker 2: that he could be pushed up into the upper echelon
Speaker 2: like will Osprey is. It wouldn't hurt for him to
Speaker 2: put on about fifteen more pounds. I know it might
Speaker 2: limit his aerial ability, but not every move needs to
Speaker 2: be a high spot. And if he did what WW
Speaker 2: did with him and not make every move his high spot,
Speaker 2: he's going to be okay. So that's what I want
Speaker 2: to see for him. I just think that, like the
Speaker 2: sky's the limit.
Speaker 4: All right, fair enough, I do agree.
Speaker 1: However, I do have one thing to say about that,
Speaker 1: and that is they could give him just another mouthpiece,
Speaker 1: really and have him go back to the Puma gimmick
Speaker 1: and it would actually work.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, Prince Puma in Luca Underground,
Speaker 1: he was pretty well received at the time. I thought
Speaker 1: he was fine at the time. You know, not everybody
Speaker 1: really needs to be a mouthpiece, but to have a
Speaker 1: good mouthpiece, you know, if they were to stick somebody
Speaker 1: like Hayman or MVP with him, it could work pretty well,
Speaker 1: I will say. But not to take away from what
Speaker 1: you're saying, his promo work definitely needed some help for sure.
Speaker 2: Well, here's a good, good trivia question for you guys then,
Speaker 2: or not trivia question, But who do you make his mouthpiece?
Speaker 2: Because MVP, if you're gonna image Bobby Lashley and Shelton Benjamin,
Speaker 2: you don't have room in your stable for Ricochet. Now,
Speaker 2: if Armando Alejandro Alessandro is still floating around somewhere in
Speaker 2: the ethos of the world and he's not signed to WWE,
Speaker 2: that could be your mouthpiece right there. I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't know very much, or he swears strictly goes over,
Speaker 2: which will turn it turn into an internal battle between
Speaker 2: Bobby Lashley and Strickland over who's the real leader. In
Speaker 2: the meantime, Prince Nana takes over Ricochet. What do you
Speaker 2: think of that?
Speaker 4: Guys can actually work a little bit.
Speaker 3: With Ricochet.
Speaker 5: I think it would probably be best if they just gave
Speaker 5: him a valet that core too, you know, like.
Speaker 3: Because you don't.
Speaker 5: Necessarily need to have like the promoter there, but you
Speaker 5: give him. I don't know, and I hate saying this,
Speaker 5: but some eye candy to go with the gimmick.
Speaker 3: It's like, cool, you have two people that can get
Speaker 3: over you know.
Speaker 2: The perfect person for that, ever, since they split up,
Speaker 2: would be Britt Baker. She has a poison tongue that would.
Speaker 4: Be really interesting.
Speaker 1: Honestly, now that I think about it, Britt Baker would
Speaker 1: be perfect.
Speaker 2: For that, especially the way she like, yeah, she can
Speaker 2: get other people's skin. I think that Britt Baker would
Speaker 2: be the perfect person, and then that sets up a
Speaker 2: feud with Adam Cole. Those could be good matches. If
Speaker 2: Adam Cole could ever get healthy, that could be really awesome.
Speaker 4: Actually, yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, moving on, we don't need to stick on
Speaker 1: Ricochet for much longer.
Speaker 4: Gardner, who you got next?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 2: All right, so he's back on TV, but he was
Speaker 2: on heatus for almost ten years. And I think that
Speaker 2: this guy was supposed to be pushed to the heavens,
Speaker 2: except they dropped him in a dumpster and said, and
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with Carlito, and I'm gonna tell you why.
Speaker 2: First of all, signing Carlito was not only just a
Speaker 2: move because of his talent, but it was also a
Speaker 2: move because of the political agreement with Puerto Rico. Now
Speaker 2: the agreement with Puerto Rico, the WWC, Carlos Cologne owns it.
Speaker 2: That's the father of Carlito. He basically would hide talent
Speaker 2: down there. If Vince in the nineties needed to rehab
Speaker 2: somebody or get them ready for TV, if he wasn't
Speaker 2: using Memphis and didn't want to put him on ECWTV,
Speaker 2: he would ship them down to Puerto Rico and let
Speaker 2: them work in front of these large stadium on audiences. Okay,
Speaker 2: so his liaison in the nineties was Savio Vega and
Speaker 2: a lot of the people that they brought up just
Speaker 2: they fizzled out, but then they struck gold with Carlito. Now,
Speaker 2: let's look at something. Carlito's debut on both Raw and SmackDown,
Speaker 2: even though it's the same company, it's just different shows
Speaker 2: on each show. Didn't he beat John Cena for a
Speaker 2: title on each? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 4: I feel like he has.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe it was US title of one inter
Speaker 2: Continental on the other, and.
Speaker 3: Then yeah, I remember him being to US champion for
Speaker 3: a while.
Speaker 2: Does anybody know why his title is called or why
Speaker 2: his finishers called the backstabber?
Speaker 5: I mean, apart from the fact that he drops you
Speaker 5: on your back on his knees.
Speaker 2: No math and he bruiser. Brody was killed in WWC,
Speaker 2: his father's organization, stabbed in the kidneys by Jose Gonzales.
Speaker 2: They say that his father was always in on it.
Speaker 2: You can listen to dutch Man Tel, you can listen
Speaker 2: to all these famous podcasters and they will tell you
Speaker 2: I mean Tony Outlets will tell you the story that
Speaker 2: Tony Alis had to sleep on the beach that night
Speaker 2: because he was afraid that he was going to get
Speaker 2: killed too. It's called the backstabber because that was the
Speaker 2: move that was used to kill Bruiser Brody and his
Speaker 2: father's organization. Let that one sink in for a second.
Speaker 2: The guy had all the talent in the world. He
Speaker 2: was supposed to be basically the third in the line
Speaker 2: of the John Cena Randy Orton, Who's the next guy
Speaker 2: kind of thing. You had Batista in there. Carlito had
Speaker 2: everything but his attitude and knowing that he could go
Speaker 2: back down to Puerto Rico and rain in hell as
Speaker 2: opposed to serve in heaven in WWE is what made
Speaker 2: him so dispensable to them. And that's when they turned
Speaker 2: him into a comedic character. He was supposed to be
Speaker 2: a heal. He went all across the country, dressing as
Speaker 2: a goof and everything else, but he got overdoing it.
Speaker 2: And my favorite was when he came to Memphis and
Speaker 2: he came out as Elvis and instead of everybody booing him,
Speaker 2: they were just chanting his name over and over, and
Speaker 2: he got mad and stomped off the stomped off the stage.
Speaker 2: Carlito is incredibly talented. If you could see what he
Speaker 2: could do in the ring, it's amazing. And the fact
Speaker 2: that we let ten years of his life go by
Speaker 2: without touching him the right way and letting him have
Speaker 2: the proper push that he needed. He could have been
Speaker 2: a main inventor. He really could have been a main inventor,
Speaker 2: especially in the stale twenty tens. I mean, when he
Speaker 2: and Punk could have worked a program, or when Punk
Speaker 2: was gone, Carlita could have been something that infused something
Speaker 2: instead of just John Cena, John Cena, Randy York, John Cena.
Speaker 2: He could have done a lot of things. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of programs that he could have worked that there's
Speaker 2: a lot of misprograms that he could have been part of.
Speaker 2: And I really feel that his talent level, I mean, honestly,
Speaker 2: don't base him on what he is today. He's almost
Speaker 2: my agent. Look, I'm almost fifty. If he can still
Speaker 2: go it, he looks that great at his age. I
Speaker 2: don't think he's quite as old as me. But to
Speaker 2: be in that great to shape and still go the
Speaker 2: way he does, that's pretty damn amazing. And so to
Speaker 2: think what could have happened for ten to twelve year
Speaker 2: absence and the way they wanted him originally if you
Speaker 2: just didn't have a bad attitude and the sky was
Speaker 2: a limited limit was the sky? What do you guys think, Dan?
Speaker 5: From when I saw Carl No, I very much enjoyed
Speaker 5: the character of being like the cool guy. He definitely
Speaker 5: was over even as a heel. It's kind of hard
Speaker 5: to dislike the dude. I mean, from the hair to
Speaker 5: the way he carried himself, he just kind of had
Speaker 5: like he owned the cool guy angle. And he's one
Speaker 5: of those guys you could love to hate or just
Speaker 5: hate that you love him so much. He had great
Speaker 5: talent in the ring. Seeing him now, I mean, he
Speaker 5: looks fantastic, Like as you stated before, he looks incredible,
Speaker 5: like better than he did when he first showed up. Honestly,
Speaker 5: I don't know why he's like a fix to a
Speaker 5: stable right now, though, I feel like it should definitely
Speaker 5: just let him be his own wrestler instead of kind
Speaker 5: of aligning himself with the faction that's eventually just going
Speaker 5: to fizzle out anyway.
Speaker 2: You know, you've got a really good point there. He's
Speaker 2: not actually part of Judgment Day. And what people don't realize,
Speaker 2: and I've said this, like on Wade Keller's podcast, is
Speaker 2: let's take some stock here. Damian Priest is fighting the
Speaker 2: Judgment Day. Damien Priest is Puerto Rican. What is Carlito,
Speaker 2: who's technically not part of Judgment Day Porto Rican? Exactly?
Speaker 2: So I think that there's some kind of internal thing.
Speaker 2: I hope that they would use that for some kind
Speaker 2: of like turn for something to you know, use that with.
Speaker 2: I'd like to see some gold around his pace. I'd
Speaker 2: love to actually see him whin. I hate money in
Speaker 2: the bank because I think that is the worst thing.
Speaker 2: I think that killed the undertitles. And that's a whole
Speaker 2: other conversation for another day. But I'd like to see
Speaker 2: him win money the bank and win the one of
Speaker 2: the straps one time, even if it's for a day,
Speaker 2: I'd love to see it. So, all right, who's up next?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I could go real quick and pass
Speaker 1: off to Dariel next afterwards. So all right, this next
Speaker 1: guy that I'm going to talk about, you know, came
Speaker 1: from Japan. He was a huge deal over there, came
Speaker 1: to WWE, and then once again was New Yart, and
Speaker 1: I'm talking about nobody other than Shinsky Nakamura.
Speaker 2: Oh God.
Speaker 1: I honestly really loved seeing his work in NXT. I
Speaker 1: loved seeing some of his past stuff from Japan. My god,
Speaker 1: that guy can work. Being the king of strong style
Speaker 1: they meant it. He was in w JP or NJPW's.
Speaker 4: Or god, I don't even remember what they call it.
Speaker 3: Title.
Speaker 1: It's like IWGP Junior Heavyweight Champion at like twenty three
Speaker 1: years old. They put the strap on him kind of young,
Speaker 1: and he held it for a while, but they really
Speaker 1: put trust in it, because you could see why coming
Speaker 1: to America and doing WWE thing, it's the WWE version
Speaker 1: of Shinsk and the American audience doesn't get to see
Speaker 1: it the same way. I remember so many people in
Speaker 1: comment sections on Facebook and stuff saying he doesn't even wrestle,
Speaker 1: He's not, you know, doing this right, And I'm sitting
Speaker 1: here like he's doing it the way that he can
Speaker 1: hand because WWE is not letting him have matches the
Speaker 1: way that he was able to before. He used to
Speaker 1: be a very hard hitting person that I would have
Speaker 1: compared a little bit to Dynamite Kid in the way
Speaker 1: that he was just stiff, but not stiff hurting people,
Speaker 1: but he made it look like, Wow, that actually seems
Speaker 1: like it really hurt to deal.
Speaker 3: With, and he's just too hard type wrestling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you see what you're saying.
Speaker 1: And it just sucks that they have to new to
Speaker 1: these guys to be WWE, a fied or whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it. And I'm not somebody who necessarily
Speaker 1: just hates ww and everything they do, but I really
Speaker 1: get annoyed when somebody has a style and it is
Speaker 1: so over with the crowd and everything, and then they
Speaker 1: get to the big league and the big league basically
Speaker 1: looks at them and says, no, you have to do
Speaker 1: it our way because this is what works, and it
Speaker 1: doesn't work for them. It really still doesn't work for Shinske.
Speaker 1: He's not quite the same at best. He's kind of
Speaker 1: a mid carter now. I haven't seen him get a
Speaker 1: real title push ever. I think he had a match
Speaker 1: with Sena and got himself a title match, and then
Speaker 1: after that because he almost really hurt seen it in
Speaker 1: that match, he basically got pushed back down again.
Speaker 2: Well, he had he headlined WrestleMania against aj Styles and
Speaker 2: he lost after he won the Royal Rumble and he
Speaker 2: eliminated Roman reigns and everybody was behind him.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 2: Legend says that New Japan when he wrestled brock Lessener,
Speaker 2: he actually knocked one of brock Lessener's teeth out.
Speaker 1: I could see that party gay But yeah, so I
Speaker 1: believe Shinsky Nakamura he deserves more of a push and
Speaker 1: I hate that we're probably never going to see it
Speaker 1: until he leaves for maybe in JPW maybe AW again.
Speaker 2: Who knows, but you'll probably go to Noah.
Speaker 1: Maybe I could see him going to Noah. And he
Speaker 1: did have that match with I believe it was Mooda
Speaker 1: he retired him there.
Speaker 2: I thought, yes he did, and that was a fantastic match.
Speaker 2: And it's like, if you actually want to see what
Speaker 2: shins K Nakamura can do, you want to watch that,
Speaker 2: but we can't scrape the scum off of our tongues
Speaker 2: after watching the fact that he had to job cleanly
Speaker 2: to gender mahaal mm hm, that's what killed his career
Speaker 2: and that's why no And then they put him with
Speaker 2: Rick Boogs and I remember, like listeners to this channel
Speaker 2: and I'm sorry, I'm gonna tell you you're stupid, You're
Speaker 2: an idiot. All the people who would go to the
Speaker 2: mail bag and say, oh, I think Rick Boogs can
Speaker 2: be a world champion, Well, I think you're in bread. Okay, Dariel,
Speaker 2: you want to disagree with me? Anybody want to say
Speaker 2: anything about that, Like any idiot who thought that he
Speaker 2: the guy was muscular and he had a mustache. He
Speaker 2: looked like a poor man's Rick Steiner and had a
Speaker 2: third of the skill.
Speaker 5: I'm not super familiar with Rick Boogs, and good for you.
Speaker 5: I've only seen a little bit of Shitzkate, but what
Speaker 5: I've seen of him was very impressive.
Speaker 3: I loved his look. I love like just.
Speaker 5: How he conducted himself in the ring. I mean clearly
Speaker 5: he as you say he was. He was wwe fied
Speaker 5: or however you want to like call it, because I
Speaker 5: feel like if you got something called strong style, oh
Speaker 5: I want to see somebody get knocked like not you know, hurt,
Speaker 5: but I want to see that hard hitting style.
Speaker 2: More. Do you want to see some Stan Hanson Bruce
Speaker 2: of Brodie.
Speaker 3: Don't you? Yeah?
Speaker 5: You know, I want to see that Stu hard esque
Speaker 5: type of Oh yeah, we're gonna we're gonna make it
Speaker 5: look solidly convincing. You might even feel it a little bit,
Speaker 5: you know, because if that's gonna be your angle, I
Speaker 5: want to see that that angle sold very well. Like it,
Speaker 5: you know when people call it like task a human
Speaker 5: suplex machine, and he lived up to it because he
Speaker 5: chucked people around the ring, and it's like, yep, that dude
Speaker 5: is definitely machine about chucking people around the ring. I
Speaker 5: like seeing that, you know, so I definitely would like
Speaker 5: to do some more research on him and just see
Speaker 5: like what he had going for on before he came
Speaker 5: to the West.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, if I could recommend anything n XT watch
Speaker 1: his match with Sammy Zain. The crowd was going nuts
Speaker 1: for it that night. That was the first time I've
Speaker 1: ever heard of WWE crowd chanting fight forever.
Speaker 4: And then I will say the Noah match.
Speaker 1: I still haven't seen it, but I've heard incredible things
Speaker 1: about it, so I still need to see it myself.
Speaker 2: On Yeah, that was that was insane. It's it's just
Speaker 2: crazy like what they did in the ring, and it's
Speaker 2: or look at Wressell Kingdom. I think eleven and I
Speaker 2: think it was him versus AJ Styles, and AJ Styles
Speaker 2: was the king of the Bull Club, our leader of
Speaker 2: the Bull Club at one point, and he like gets
Speaker 2: bouncing the ropes and does the finger and points like
Speaker 2: the gun like aj Styles does. And Nakamura catches the
Speaker 2: bullet in the air which is not real, and puts
Speaker 2: it in his mouth and eats it. It's amazing, amazing.
Speaker 2: He he is, like you said, if any guy who
Speaker 2: could knock out one of brock Lessner's teeth reportedly is
Speaker 2: you know, pretty hardcore. And then you have him do
Speaker 2: a solid job to General Hall, a guy that wasn't
Speaker 2: worth he was he wasn't worth a rental car.
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to get into that
Speaker 2: right now, but we'll go into like champions who never
Speaker 2: should have been champions at another show. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you guys want to be on that show, but
Speaker 2: I would love to have you both on that show.
Speaker 4: All right, sounds good?
Speaker 1: But yeah, moving on from Shinski Dariel, who's your next man?
Speaker 3: My next one is Kick Cash? Nice pick Kick Cash.
Speaker 5: Is legendary, I mean, you know, getting it his start
Speaker 5: and like the Smoky Mountain, you know, being a tap
Speaker 5: team partner with Ricky Morton and such like, dude had
Speaker 5: a history behind him and then moving on to ECW
Speaker 5: and really getting established there, and yeah, you know, he
Speaker 5: was definitely like on the the lookalike train, which you know,
Speaker 5: you get a number of those wrestlers and they just
Speaker 5: kind of go.
Speaker 3: Ahead and run with it. But I mean he owned it.
Speaker 5: He killed it, like I think seeing and I have
Speaker 5: been watching a lot of his matches leading up to this,
Speaker 5: just you know, see what else he had going for
Speaker 5: him and the guy despite being of a shorter stature
Speaker 5: because he was like what five eight five nine and
Speaker 5: he wasn't like a heavyweight. But the thing is, he
Speaker 5: went aware that he cleared about two hundred. Okay, he
Speaker 5: cleared two hundred pretty close, like evenly. He had to
Speaker 5: wrestle big because he knew kind of industry he was in.
Speaker 5: You know, if he's going to go do you know,
Speaker 5: big promotions, they're not going to look at him suit
Speaker 5: for very long because he's not a big guy. But
Speaker 5: he had because ECW really just gave people chances regardless
Speaker 5: of like their size and stature or whatever, he was
Speaker 5: able to really showcase his abilities in the ring, one
Speaker 5: as a high flyer, which was something I wasn't really
Speaker 5: prepared to see going back to watching like old tapes
Speaker 5: of ECW and such, this dude really put his body
Speaker 5: on the line for a lot of a lot of
Speaker 5: his matches like the moon salts, the the twisting sentons
Speaker 5: in the air. You know, he had a lot of
Speaker 5: crazy athleticism. But the other thing is that as he
Speaker 5: moved between promotions, like he still carried a lot of
Speaker 5: his ECW style with them, but he also started mixing that,
Speaker 5: you know with the Mitst martial arts and you know,
Speaker 5: putting submissions and such.
Speaker 3: So as he got older, he solidified his style more
Speaker 3: to be ground based.
Speaker 5: And in addition to that, I mean the guy had
Speaker 5: you know, good look overall and yeah, pretty alright my skills.
Speaker 5: The guy was a heat generator. He knew how to
Speaker 5: just talk it and really get under people's skin. Like
Speaker 5: when he showed up in WWE, I mean he won
Speaker 5: the cruiseweight title. Dude walked around like he was the
Speaker 5: baddest of the bad and that right there shows like
Speaker 5: this guy has something that could be more than just
Speaker 5: a cruiserweight because once again he had to learn to
Speaker 5: wrestle big.
Speaker 3: When you watch him.
Speaker 5: Against like Vic Grimes and you see him against like C. W. Anderson,
Speaker 5: and you see him against Dustin Rose and TNA like
Speaker 5: he had he had to wrestle those guys like he
Speaker 5: was their size, or at the very least rustle in
Speaker 5: the way that he could take them down convincingly. And
Speaker 5: he definitely had his fair share of matches where he
Speaker 5: you know, he gave it us all. But eventually, you know,
Speaker 5: he had to like fall to the big dude. And
Speaker 5: even in his interviews, his philosophy is that, like, it's
Speaker 5: not something, it's not very believable to see like a
Speaker 5: little dude beat a big guy, and so he had
Speaker 5: to make his style work to that.
Speaker 3: And I very much think that if they had.
Speaker 5: Honed in on that, I mean that dude could have
Speaker 5: been walking around with the US title, the incontinental title
Speaker 5: like he had tag championships with Jamie Noble, like, it
Speaker 5: wouldn't have been hard to see him in a heavyweight class.
Speaker 3: I mean, look at Crispin, Juan Eddie Guerrero. They were
Speaker 3: not very tall dudes at all.
Speaker 5: I mean they were jacked, which helped, and he definitely
Speaker 5: bulked up over the years. I see a lot of
Speaker 5: it is that they kind of newted his style when
Speaker 5: he got there, like he didn't seem to like have
Speaker 5: the same level of high risk or intensity that he
Speaker 5: had from like the past promotions he worked for. And
Speaker 5: I think that they kind of squandered him on that one.
Speaker 5: And if I recall correctly, he got fired for like
Speaker 5: smoking weed in Canada or something.
Speaker 2: Which it's primarily more legal there than it is here
Speaker 2: in the United States, which is kind of funny, but.
Speaker 5: Right, And I'm pretty sure he said something about that.
Speaker 5: He was like, wait, what, like this is the thing.
Speaker 2: Well, it's legality of the company, which is where they
Speaker 2: want to sting you. But didn't he also have a
Speaker 2: cup of coffee in WCW before they shut down, like
Speaker 2: real quick, I think that we're basing it off my
Speaker 2: I'm fifty years old memory that basically I believe. I
Speaker 2: think he had like one or two appearances on WW
Speaker 2: and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
Speaker 5: And yeah, he Jason Jet watched that match like.
Speaker 2: Right before we did this on WSW.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he debuted as Cash just cash spelled correctly see
Speaker 5: a s H His best match.
Speaker 2: His best match was against Rhino for the TV title
Speaker 2: in ECW. The way they searched the ring that was amazing.
Speaker 3: That was the mass started on the outside of the ring.
Speaker 3: Really yes, but that I watched that right before this
Speaker 3: as well. I did a lot of research before I
Speaker 3: got here.
Speaker 2: But you know, just going to WWE, you're too small kid.
Speaker 2: You don't have anything kid, you know, that's that's sad.
Speaker 2: And the word kid he should have you know, just
Speaker 2: went to cash or something else there. There should have
Speaker 2: been a dynamic change in his name that would have
Speaker 2: helped him. I believe a lot more because like the
Speaker 2: one two three kid six x POC whatever, like he
Speaker 2: became x POC. But if he came back from w
Speaker 2: CW from six to one two three kid, the word kid,
Speaker 2: it's like, you're a fully grown man. You can't you
Speaker 2: can't do that. It's like boys to men, should they
Speaker 2: just be men? Now? That's your man?
Speaker 4: Geriatrics.
Speaker 5: At this point, I think the thing is is like
Speaker 5: even if I mean Sean Michaels is still the Heartbreak Kid,
Speaker 5: He's still HBK.
Speaker 3: Man is in his fifties, he's still HBK.
Speaker 2: You know, HBM At this point, HBG.
Speaker 3: Is it's the it's his persona and true.
Speaker 5: The thing is like when you have a last name
Speaker 5: like Cash, because that's actually his last name. His name
Speaker 5: is David Cash. You have a last name like Cash,
Speaker 5: it's kind of hard to pass up the opportunity to
Speaker 5: just run with whatever goes with that. And I mean
Speaker 5: clearly he was, you know, based off a Kid Rock
Speaker 5: dude who is a grown man still, you know, going
Speaker 5: by kid Rock, but it's like whatever, like that's his thing.
Speaker 5: And the promo he cut after he won the cruiseweight
Speaker 5: Championship in the WWE, he's been interviewed by Funaki. He
Speaker 5: refers to himself as the Notorious k I D. Which
Speaker 5: I'm like, Okay, that's sick.
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny because I remember him in TNA
Speaker 2: during the pay per view days of the like nine
Speaker 2: dollars every week pay per view, and when I was
Speaker 2: like emailing Jeremy Borash and Bob Ryer ideas every week.
Speaker 2: And I just remember like some of the stuff I've
Speaker 2: seen like going on, and I remember Kid Cash like
Speaker 2: cut a promo that I just hated and it was
Speaker 2: on Goldilocks and I can't repeat it on here, but
Speaker 2: you can look it up, like the Kid Cash promo
Speaker 2: on Goldielocks and then how she gets him back on it.
Speaker 2: So because it was pay per view, they could swear,
Speaker 2: so they could say dirty things and I can't say
Speaker 2: like on our paper or on our podcast.
Speaker 4: All right, fair enough?
Speaker 1: Yeah with that, Gardner, you want to start off with
Speaker 1: your final person.
Speaker 2: My final person is the most underpushed person that is
Speaker 2: personally like in the company right now, that has more
Speaker 2: talent and more charisma than anybody else. And I just
Speaker 2: feel that they've really fumbled the ball. The first universal
Speaker 2: champlain that's Ben Valor as Prince Devitt. He's the guy
Speaker 2: who started Bullet Club. If you didn't have Bullet Club,
Speaker 2: you wouldn't have all elite wrestling. The man exudes talent.
Speaker 2: He can come out as the Demon, he can come
Speaker 2: out as Sweeney Todd, he can come out as so
Speaker 2: many different versions of who he is. And to borrow
Speaker 2: from you, Dariel, he's been neutered. That man's in fantastic shape. Okay,
Speaker 2: he's two hundred pounds soaking wet. He could do anything
Speaker 2: in the ring. I put him in the same class
Speaker 2: as Benoa and see him punk as people who are
Speaker 2: small but could do it all, and people who won
Speaker 2: world titles, and probably in Vince's regime, should not have
Speaker 2: won world titles, and yet he has clean victories over
Speaker 2: both Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns in the same area
Speaker 2: to be the first universal champion, just to be stripped
Speaker 2: of it because Seth hurt him and his career has
Speaker 2: never been the same. The guy has. He drips talent,
Speaker 2: he drips charisma, he drips everything that you need in
Speaker 2: a ring. He's smart, he can do it. And then
Speaker 2: he's stuck in a faction just to put over Damian Priest,
Speaker 2: who I think also is talented and I'm not taking
Speaker 2: away from him and Carlito, who we've also spoken about,
Speaker 2: but are we evating the talent or is the talent
Speaker 2: de evaluating you? And as Jim Cornett, who I'm a
Speaker 2: fan of who lives here in Louisville also says, is
Speaker 2: the finn baler or is the pin baler? He always
Speaker 2: has to take the bite. This guy's done more in
Speaker 2: the ring than half these people have done in their
Speaker 2: whole career. He owned New Japan. He formed Bullet Club
Speaker 2: when he was a junior heavyweight. No one ever lets
Speaker 2: anybody lead Japan as a junior heavyweight, and he never
Speaker 2: declared himself as a heavyweight and if he leaves and
Speaker 2: he goes back to Japan, he will be declared a heavyweight.
Speaker 2: It's really weird how they do that stuff. But the
Speaker 2: fact is brass tacks and baseball basket When we get
Speaker 2: down to it, this guy could do everything in the
Speaker 2: worrying and if he goes to all elite that's gonna
Speaker 2: be insane. But if people also look at it, how
Speaker 2: many people who are part of the Bullet Club are
Speaker 2: in WWE now? And will he mastermind a redirection of
Speaker 2: the Bullet Club and then ballor club comes together at
Speaker 2: stuttering guys again? So thoughts, well, you are right because
Speaker 2: he did form the Bullet Club, and wasn't it Gallows
Speaker 2: and Anderson who were also a part of it at the time? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Where they Yeah, exactly whatever happened to them at this point?
Speaker 1: I feel like they fell off again, which is sad
Speaker 1: honestly because Gallow has always been relatively talented. He just
Speaker 1: doesn't really get the push because wasn't he like Festus
Speaker 1: at one point?
Speaker 2: Yes, and Anderson is actually super fast, Yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: and Anderson is like super talentedged but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's sad to see when God Vince's regime
Speaker 1: used to really like to take people that were really
Speaker 1: famous from other company and kind of just burn them
Speaker 1: a little bit. It seemed like if you were made
Speaker 1: somewhere else and they brought you in where it's WCW
Speaker 1: or wherever, if they couldn't rebrand you to be something
Speaker 1: special that oh yeah, the crowd's never seen this before
Speaker 1: quote unquote. Then it was okay, which is gonna kind
Speaker 1: of make him look stupid and then send him on
Speaker 1: his way because WWE is the only way sort of
Speaker 1: thing they wanted to push their own homegrowns and half
Speaker 1: the time it didn't really help out that much. That's
Speaker 1: something I really despised about Vince for a while, or
Speaker 1: things like did you ever notice that certain female wrestlers
Speaker 1: use TNA's Top Stars finishers?
Speaker 2: I mean I pointed out for a while.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I believe you may have started the conversation
Speaker 1: for me when all of a sudden seeing the styles
Speaker 1: class used by certain female wrestlers and it's like, wow,
Speaker 1: I wonder.
Speaker 4: Why that is.
Speaker 1: Vince the misogynty continues sort of thing.
Speaker 2: You know, he wanted diminish people's finishers from other territory,
Speaker 2: or not territories, but other other companies and make it
Speaker 2: a woman's Finisher and it Vince burn in Hell.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can kind of agree with that, but yeah,
Speaker 1: that was just kind of a crappy time for what
Speaker 1: it was. But yeah, I do agree. Baler is very underrated,
Speaker 1: under pushed. He is somebody who's deserved so much more.
Speaker 1: He's able to play a theatrical character. He's able to
Speaker 1: go out there and just be a little closer to
Speaker 1: human being himself, but he can also pull out that
Speaker 1: whole demon thing. And you know what, I'm going to
Speaker 1: buy into as much as I bought into The Undertaker,
Speaker 1: you know what. No, he's not an actual dead man,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to watch it and be very entertained
Speaker 1: by it. It's because it's him and he knows how
Speaker 1: to pull it off very very well. Dariel, you have
Speaker 1: any thoughts on Baler?
Speaker 5: Honestly, Baler showed up around time where I mean I
Speaker 5: was still out of the loop, so I'm gonna have
Speaker 5: to do some catching up on him. From what I've
Speaker 5: seen of him, Like, he has a great look and
Speaker 5: I'm still a little like iffy about the double stomp
Speaker 5: super like the Finisher or whatever. It's just I don't know,
Speaker 5: like you got Swerve running it. He's doing it. I
Speaker 5: don't know how many more people are going to do it.
Speaker 5: I think if I.
Speaker 2: Watched Star.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it does work better for like lighter wrestlers.
Speaker 5: I think it's a little bit less harsh on the
Speaker 5: body from what I can tell. But I have to
Speaker 5: do some catching up on him because I don't really
Speaker 5: have a super strong opinion. All I know is he's
Speaker 5: like he was one third of like Judgment Day, which,
Speaker 5: to be honest, he did seem a bit overshadowed by
Speaker 5: them because you got Priest who looks fantastic, has just
Speaker 5: just owns the whole look and everything, and then he
Speaker 5: got Ray Ripley who was also kind of a machine.
Speaker 3: So he kind of just fell to the wayside with
Speaker 3: those two.
Speaker 2: Agreed, agreed definitely, and that's that's that's the out of
Speaker 2: his part. Because then the like JD McDonough I think
Speaker 2: is a huge talent, and I feel that like, because
Speaker 2: he's part of Judgment Day, he's he's fell to the
Speaker 2: wayside because he could do so much more, and that's
Speaker 2: like a just a throw in the fact that like
Speaker 2: he's jobbed out to our truth. I know our truth
Speaker 2: is like special and you know, teaches people, and he's
Speaker 2: older than me. He's like fifty five, in great shape.
Speaker 2: But the fact is he doesn't need to keep taking
Speaker 2: w's over current talent. You're bearing current talent. Dadie McDonough
Speaker 2: has talent if you watch his matches with Ilia dragonoff
Speaker 2: Holy Biscuits, trust me. So all right, who's this and Dariel?
Speaker 4: You want to finish off your list, Bud.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll finish off here with Mark Jindrak. So, Mark Jendrek,
Speaker 5: I saw a little bit of his work in the ring,
Speaker 5: and at first he really just seemed like, you know,
Speaker 5: your your typical kind of not super tall guy, but
Speaker 5: obviously one of the VINS hopefuls. You know, Oh he's tall,
Speaker 5: he's got you know, great look, good physique. But he
Speaker 5: didn't stand out a whole lot until I started looking
Speaker 5: into him, because I was like, whatever happened to that dude?
Speaker 5: And so I remember that he was wrestling in Mexico.
Speaker 5: So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna look out all
Speaker 5: this stuff from Mexico, and what I saw blew my mind.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what.
Speaker 5: First of all, the main thing that stood out to
Speaker 5: me is his vertical. The dude is a human grasshopper
Speaker 5: to see guys in an electric chair setup, and he
Speaker 5: jumped up and drop kicks them, not in the gut,
Speaker 5: in the chest, like we're talking after very very clearly,
Speaker 5: like you know, five nine, five ten, still not exactly
Speaker 5: like when you stack two dudes are roughly about the
Speaker 5: same height on top of each other. That's pretty tall.
Speaker 5: And then I would see him come from the ramp
Speaker 5: and jump across the ropes and sail all the way
Speaker 5: across the ring with a cross body block from like
Speaker 5: the end of the ramp, not even when the mat starts.
Speaker 5: I'm like, wait, what do you mean? I'm like, this
Speaker 5: dude is doing this? Why is he Why wasn't getting pushed?
Speaker 5: And apparently he just wasn't allowed to be him, He
Speaker 5: wasn't allowed to do the things that he was good at.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, this dude is insane.
Speaker 7: How did you just let this slip through the cracks?
Speaker 7: I'm like that that right there is like I don't
Speaker 7: know what his his my skills were like, but whatever,
Speaker 7: throw them with the manager.
Speaker 2: That's what they always had player for that time.
Speaker 6: So right, So the thing is that he was in
Speaker 6: a vignette for Evolution because there was like some issue
Speaker 6: at the time where like I guess Batista wasn't like
Speaker 6: quite ready to be like he was out or something
Speaker 6: or other, so they filmed a vignette with Mark Jindrack,
Speaker 6: but apparently even Triple As didn't want him in the thing.
Speaker 5: He's like, you know, he's not going to be in
Speaker 5: an Evolution and I'm like, what why not? Like I
Speaker 5: mean clearly, yeah, you know, he's got Randy Yorton and
Speaker 5: he probably would have overshadowed Randy, so you never know,
Speaker 5: it probably was like the Orton last name has weight
Speaker 5: jin drag.
Speaker 3: Maybe not, but seeing that dude, I'm like.
Speaker 5: Huh, they really just let that dude go, and you know,
Speaker 5: he went to Mexico and did his thing, and honestly,
Speaker 5: I would I mean, granted, you know, he's an older
Speaker 5: guy now, so he's probably not jumping nearly like seven
Speaker 5: feet up in the air and drop kicking people, but whatever,
Speaker 5: he's still I'm sure he still has it.
Speaker 3: If he's still wrestling. It would be great to.
Speaker 5: See that dude come back, because that's a level of
Speaker 5: athleticism you don't normally see from people, especially someone in
Speaker 5: his stature.
Speaker 2: Now, what I'll say is like I remember he tagged
Speaker 2: him with Shat O'Hare, and I thought that guy was
Speaker 2: going to be the big one and I thought he
Speaker 2: would be part of evolution. But they know picking Jendrek was.
Speaker 2: I mean, he had everything they said that he just
Speaker 2: felt like in his mind he was not ready for it.
Speaker 2: That's kind of sad, Like I hate for eddy for
Speaker 2: any talent to like go into a situation where they
Speaker 2: feel they're just not ready for it and basically be like, yeah,
Speaker 2: assing their pants before they go out because they're just
Speaker 2: not ready for it. So I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: I don't know the true story. I don't know the background,
Speaker 2: but you have a really good pick there, because didn't
Speaker 2: you go on to do the MTB like Wrestling X
Speaker 2: or something like that.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure about that part. I can't.
Speaker 5: I can't really corroborate that one because I didn't follow
Speaker 5: up on anything past like the stuff he did in
Speaker 5: the early two thousands in like WW and then like
Speaker 5: the stuff he did in Mexico. But I mean, I remember,
Speaker 5: you know the Reflection of Perfection, which I'm like, yo, bro,
Speaker 5: that that Moniker with this look. Why weren't you pushing.
Speaker 2: This because wwe you weren't Triple h. You weren't John Cena,
Speaker 2: you weren't you know whatever. At the time, you know,
Speaker 2: they only just had.
Speaker 5: A monopoly on it, you know, like they had a
Speaker 5: monopoly on the industry. Because if that dude had any
Speaker 5: other place to go, I mean, I guess he could
Speaker 5: have went to TNA, But like that dude had any
Speaker 5: other place to go.
Speaker 3: That is a world champion right there.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that he has won like many championships
Speaker 2: down in Mexico. It's it's just a different situation, like
Speaker 2: moving to Mexico. I've been to Mexico many times. Have
Speaker 2: you ever been to Mexico, either of you? Nope, Okay,
Speaker 2: it's I've been to Tijuana, which is a very scary city.
Speaker 2: And basically they always say, like, you know, you bring
Speaker 2: two IDs with you. You have one in your wallet and
Speaker 2: one in your your sock so they can't get it
Speaker 2: away from you and you cross the border. And the
Speaker 2: first if you walk across the border from Tijuana to
Speaker 2: actually where you're going to go party on Revolution Street
Speaker 2: is a to militarized zone where there's high rises that
Speaker 2: are vacant graffiti. Everything's crazy. I don't know why anybody
Speaker 2: would be there. So if Mark Jindrak went down there
Speaker 2: and he made money, that means he went to Mexico
Speaker 2: City and he went to the epicenter of where you
Speaker 2: can make money, and so you can live down there
Speaker 2: for fifty cents on the dollar for American money, especially
Speaker 2: back then. So he made a lot of money, and
Speaker 2: he's probably living like a king, I get it. But
Speaker 2: he could have still been part of evolution.
Speaker 5: So and I think a lot of it may have
Speaker 5: added something to do with the fact that, like, there's
Speaker 5: a there's a guy whose last name carries weight. He's
Speaker 5: what like a fourth generation or third generation wrestler, and
Speaker 5: Randy Orton, and so I think that's kind of what
Speaker 5: probably killed his momentum, is just the fact that they're like, well,
Speaker 5: we can't really throw this other guy under the bus,
Speaker 5: you know, because the Ortons would have probably had something
Speaker 5: to say about it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean it was.
Speaker 2: But they replaced with Batista, so we can argue that
Speaker 2: all day.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but Batista had this look to him that is marketable,
Speaker 5: you know, the animal he looks primal, He wrestled Primal
Speaker 5: and he very much looked like the bodyguard of the group.
Speaker 5: It's like you got the three A listers and then
Speaker 5: he got the muscle.
Speaker 2: But Reverend Darryl testify what was his original gimmick Batista exactly.
Speaker 2: So he wasn't supposed to be there. He was not
Speaker 2: supposed to be there. It was when Jindrak bailed out
Speaker 2: that they put him in.
Speaker 5: Which I mean, I guess is the best thing that
Speaker 5: ever happened to him, really, at least Batista anyway.
Speaker 2: No shyser, So who's next?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 1: So mine will be the last one, as I believe,
Speaker 1: that's three for all of us, correct, that's correct, all right,
Speaker 1: So my final one, and I'll be honest, I'm kind
Speaker 1: of calling audible here, guys, but I've been ad living
Speaker 1: this whole thing anyways. But last person for me, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say, mister j L.
Speaker 4: Jerry Lynn. I think was under pushed.
Speaker 3: And that's an understatement.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's thinking about it.
Speaker 1: It's like it just kind of hit me while I
Speaker 1: was sitting here that he has been in many, many promotions,
Speaker 1: and I remember seeing certain Dark Side of the Ring episodes,
Speaker 1: certain interviews.
Speaker 4: Apparently he's been a pretty.
Speaker 1: Good mentor to a lot of the guys while they've
Speaker 1: been up and coming. There was people from XBW even
Speaker 1: that talked about you know what.
Speaker 4: He was backstage with me.
Speaker 1: I remember Rob Black was yelling at me for taking
Speaker 1: a chair shot and putting my hand up because he
Speaker 1: wanted me to just take it straight to the face.
Speaker 1: And JL was the guy that came up behind him
Speaker 1: afterwards after he walked away, talked to me. He's like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: you did it right. You protected yourself. You took the
Speaker 1: shot and it looked great. Don't worry about it. He
Speaker 1: doesn't know what he's talking about. He was the voice
Speaker 1: of reason in certain areas, and he was very talented
Speaker 1: in WCW. I mean I remember seeing him as mister
Speaker 1: JL masked up in certain matches from I believe. I'd
Speaker 1: been watching Nitro from nineteen ninety five for a little
Speaker 1: bit and he was putting on matches that felt like
Speaker 1: a clinic. Honestly, he was doing incredible things and realistically
Speaker 1: he didn't need to speak because he had the mask on.
Speaker 1: He was just, you know, another mysterious figure. You know,
Speaker 1: the mask adds that mystique to you. But something that
Speaker 1: I remembered thinking about was just I didn't know really
Speaker 1: who he was at that point.
Speaker 4: I know he's now been an ECW champion.
Speaker 1: I believe his highest accolade in WWE was being a
Speaker 1: light heavyweight champion or something like that, but that was
Speaker 1: and I think he definitely deserved more. I'm not really
Speaker 1: sure how good his mike skills really were, but I
Speaker 1: know that in ring he was something to be reckoned,
Speaker 1: and I really enjoyed watching even a few of his matches.
Speaker 4: I'd like to see more as I go.
Speaker 1: On, and realistically just want to go digging through the
Speaker 1: past see what I can find.
Speaker 4: What do you guys think of Jerry Lynn.
Speaker 3: I loved Jerry Lynn growing up.
Speaker 5: I saw him in at the time WWF, and I
Speaker 5: remember I loved his theme, So that's part of the
Speaker 5: reason why I loved watching him, because I wanted to
Speaker 5: hear his theme more that I love that. But as
Speaker 5: I've been catching up on wrestling and like going back
Speaker 5: into the past and seen the humble beginnings of all
Speaker 5: my favorite wrestlers, watching him in ECW was pretty awesome.
Speaker 5: One of my favorite matches with him is actually Jerry
Speaker 5: Lynn versus Taka Michinoku.
Speaker 3: M HM. Those two killed it like it was.
Speaker 5: It was a very competitive back and forth match, and
Speaker 5: they spared no expense. They left it all in the ring,
Speaker 5: and it was great to see something like that and
Speaker 5: see what he could do.
Speaker 3: In that environment.
Speaker 5: And I mean he had great tattoom matches, you know,
Speaker 5: with like Rod Van Damn, Kick Cash, you know, Tommy Dreamer,
Speaker 5: Mikey Whipbrack, you know all these, you know names that
Speaker 5: came up out of ECW. That dude was very, very talented.
Speaker 5: Love seeing him wrestle, and I kind of wish that
Speaker 5: he was a little younger so he could still be
Speaker 5: in the ring doing it.
Speaker 2: So my thoughts about Jerry Lynn, I'll tell you, I
Speaker 2: don't know if I saw him first in us w
Speaker 2: A or Global. I think I first, excuse me seeing
Speaker 2: him in Global Wrestling Federation, which was a short lived
Speaker 2: Dallas based promotion Joe Pedsino, But I could be wrong.
Speaker 2: He was so talented, he was so amazing. He was
Speaker 2: I didn't see anything. He was Rob van Dam before
Speaker 2: Rob van dam. He could do things that most human
Speaker 2: beings couldn't do. But the thing that he did most
Speaker 2: importantly is that he sold. He sold. He didn't take
Speaker 2: a high spot and pop up and be like, Okay,
Speaker 2: there's only a couple people that in history that you
Speaker 2: could believe that. I didn't believe it in Hogan because
Speaker 2: Hogan sucked. He sucked in Ring Hawk from the Road Warriors.
Speaker 2: You believe that Nikita kole Off wouldn't take a pile driver,
Speaker 2: or actually Hawk wouldn't take a pile driver, and Nikita
Speaker 2: would take a pile driver. Get up and shake it off.
Speaker 2: They're andre like, there are people you didn't sell. Jerry
Speaker 2: Lynn was a special, great wrestling human being that taught
Speaker 2: in the ring and actually made the business better than
Speaker 2: people could ever imagine. You know, his first well just
Speaker 2: Incredible's first match in ECW was against Jerry Lynn. I
Speaker 2: know this is because Justin Incredible and my are friends,
Speaker 2: and without using names, he tells me like with how
Speaker 2: do I say this? People in aw do not want
Speaker 2: to listen to agents or listen to anybody who wants
Speaker 2: to actually help them.
Speaker 5: It's kind of sad, Yeah, that they know best type
Speaker 5: of mentality exactly, Yes.
Speaker 4: The rebellious.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we already we've already gone through this. We
Speaker 1: already know what we're doing where we made a company
Speaker 1: on our own sort of thing or we're our own
Speaker 1: thing type of people. But yeah, we don't need to
Speaker 1: dive too much into that. But yeah, jail very special
Speaker 1: type of wrestler. Yeah, I think that's it for the
Speaker 1: regular episode, guys, so get onto some recommendations. Is October?
Speaker 1: What do we got, guys? To start with the gardener?
Speaker 1: What do you got for us?
Speaker 2: All right, so we're gonna do a scary movie this month.
Speaker 2: I want to do the Monster Squad. We have to
Speaker 2: do the Monster Squad because the man who plays the cop,
Speaker 2: the African American cop, stan Shaw, and I am so
Speaker 2: I love him and both Ben has Nards. That's our thing.
Speaker 2: Aside from that, you can reach me at one four
Speaker 2: four Captain on X.
Speaker 4: That sounds good. Dariel, what about you, man? What's your
Speaker 4: recommendation for the audience?
Speaker 5: So I'm not much of a movie guy, but I
Speaker 5: will recommend Queen of the Dan, mostly just for the soundtrack.
Speaker 5: I think the soundtrack is fantastic and also just rested
Speaker 5: past to a Leah. She was taken from this world
Speaker 5: way too soon. But I will recommend a video game.
Speaker 5: Some people might call it a little controversial in terms
Speaker 5: of like is a truly a horror game or not.
Speaker 5: But Devil May Cry it's an act. It's not like
Speaker 5: a horror fed action game. It's fantastic. If you have
Speaker 5: a PlayStation two or if you can get a hold
Speaker 5: of the collection on the next gen console, definitely play
Speaker 5: through the series.
Speaker 3: You will not regret it, all.
Speaker 4: Right, fair enough?
Speaker 1: You mind telling the audience how they can reach you
Speaker 1: or anything like that.
Speaker 5: If you want to reach me, I'm on Instagram. That's
Speaker 5: under accel at on City ex c e l A
Speaker 5: d N underscore City. I don't really have a whole
Speaker 5: lot of social media, but this is the one thing
Speaker 5: I checked pretty regularly. So if you ever want to
Speaker 5: get a hold of me, so you can reach.
Speaker 4: Me, all right, fair enough?
Speaker 1: All right, So my recommendations this week, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have a movie and game.
Speaker 4: So the movie that I'm going to say.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a horror movie, but it's not the greatest,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie to you. But the thing I
Speaker 1: love about it more than anything is the concept realistically,
Speaker 1: so movie for me is going to be Stir of
Speaker 1: Echo starring Kevin Bacon. That was probably made like late nineties,
Speaker 1: maybe early two thousands, but it's not necessarily bad, but
Speaker 1: it's not great.
Speaker 2: I just stake it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I just remembered the concept alone is what
Speaker 1: really kind of got me interested in it, just the
Speaker 1: idea of, well, I don't really want to give it away.
Speaker 1: So anyways, the game that I wanted to recommend so recently,
Speaker 1: one of my favorite video games of all time, has
Speaker 1: been remastered, Silent Hill two. I will say the original
Speaker 1: incredible story and it's very well written from beginning to end.
Speaker 1: I do highly recommend if you can get a copy
Speaker 1: of the original, go through it. It's worth it. But
Speaker 1: the remake just came out, I believe as of October eighth,
Speaker 1: So if you guys want to give that a playthrough,
Speaker 1: let me know how it is, because I honestly don't
Speaker 1: want to get it until somebody reviews it for me
Speaker 1: and lets me know. Hey, it's still good, just as
Speaker 1: good as the last because it's full remake, not a remaster.
Speaker 1: But yeah, highly recommend both horror titles. And with that,
Speaker 1: you guys know how to reach me at Maintens on
Speaker 1: Twitter x whatever you want to call it. As usual,
Speaker 1: do something nice for somebody you never know who needs it.
Speaker 1: And with that we're out.
Speaker 8: Thanks for listening to the WWE Podcast. Don't forget to
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Speaker 8: next time.