WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:06.400 Oh you is Boots. 2 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:08.160 It's show Die. 3 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:10.599 People pay good money to see this movie. 4 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:12.160 When they go out to a theater. 5 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:15.960 They want cold sodas, plot, popcorn, and no monsters. 6 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:19.199 In the Projection booth, everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring? 7 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:42.960 A what are you looking at? Hik We gotta do 8 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:49.159 around here? Nothing will want you on speak postmaster an ascid. 9 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:51.520 Please do la No, I don't want drugs? 10 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:52.479 Yeah? 11 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:55.600 What about gilkay step one? 12 00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:56.600 Funny girl you love? 13 00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:00.359 How about? Uh? 14 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:01.600 Somebody gets some music? 15 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:22.599 Do conty speech? 16 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:26.920 Didn't he chose? 17 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:27.400 Now? 18 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:31.400 Dope too? 19 00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:40.439 A month gets finish? Ain't a shawn sir? 20 00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:44.719 The curt mess of Donna? 21 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:47.719 There? 22 00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:48.879 Uh? 23 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:57.439 Yes, I I have a Yeah, I know god. 24 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:57.240 SuDS the sun time. 25 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:43.319 The formula is really very simple. Just follow the rules 26 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:45.319 and you will see. 27 00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:55.000 And as life travels on and things do go wrong, 28 00:03:56.319 --> 00:04:00.680 just follow steps one, two, and three. 29 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:08.199 Welcome to the Projection Booth. I'm your host, Mike White. 30 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:10.520 Joined me is mister Ben Slater. 31 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:12.719 Hello, Hello, hello, hello again. 32 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:15.479 Also back in the booth is mister Mark Begley. 33 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:18.279 Hello, and thanks for having me back. 34 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:22.160 We continue Art House August with a look at Christopher 35 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:25.519 Pettitt's Radio On, released in nineteen seventy nine. In the 36 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:28.199 film is a road movie about a London man investigating 37 00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:31.439 the death of his brother in Bristol. A deliberately paced 38 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:34.199 black and white film, it became famous for its use 39 00:04:34.279 --> 00:04:37.240 of modern music on its soundtrack. We'll be talking about 40 00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:39.319 that and spoiling the movie as much as we can 41 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:41.439 as we go ahead and discuss this. So if you 42 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:43.920 don't want anything ruined, please go ahead and track down 43 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:47.680 the wonderful blu ray from Fun City Editions. We will 44 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:50.800 still be here when you get back. So Ben, I 45 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:52.639 know you've got a history with this one. When was 46 00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:54.360 the first time you saw Radio On? 47 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:55.519 And what did you think? 48 00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:55.759 Sir? 49 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:58.720 We'll stop in Guys, it's a long story and I'll 50 00:04:58.800 --> 00:04:59.759 try to make it. 51 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.920 I'm really sure you don't have there's no time litbit 52 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:03.800 on this, bad guest. 53 00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:05.120 Long stories are good. 54 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:08.720 I'm it's late and night here. I would love to 55 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:10.600 spend ages on it, but I won't. I'll give you 56 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:13.879 the broad Stokes, which is basically I went to Bristol University. 57 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:16.959 So that's the first connection because in Radio one they 58 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:19.879 end up in Bristol, or he ends up in Bristol. 59 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:23.319 After I graduated. Me and a really good friend called 60 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:28.199 Gareth Evans, who is a wonderful producer and curator based 61 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:32.279 in London. Now we started a magazine which was called Entropy, 62 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:35.759 which was a fanzine basically a kind of well produced fanzine. 63 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:40.199 This is about nineteen ninety six nineteen ninety seven, and 64 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:43.399 we were interested in looking at experimental culture and we 65 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:46.720 were feeling a kind of end of the millennium vibe 66 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:49.720 and trying to put that into our magazine. And Gareth 67 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:53.959 was really the one who identified Chris Pettitt is somebody 68 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:56.959 that was interesting to talk to. And it really came 69 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:00.519 about because Chris Pettitt was doing this collaborate with this 70 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:04.920 other British writer called Ian Sinclair, and they made a 71 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:08.199 film called The Falconer, which is about a very interesting 72 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:12.959 guy called Peter Whitehead and Peter Whitehead maybe proposal for 73 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:17.000 a future podcast, all right, And we interviewed Peter Whitehead 74 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:19.920 for the first issue of our magazine and then Garrett said, 75 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:22.319 we've got to talk to Ian and Chris because they're 76 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:25.120 making this film about Peter. So we went ahead and 77 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:27.959 our second big interview was a double heather with Ian 78 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:32.439 and Chris. I knew about Radio On because my bible 79 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:35.160 as a young film fan was the Timeout Film Guide, 80 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:38.600 which was the London listings magazine Time Out, which Chris 81 00:06:38.839 --> 00:06:41.079 worked for as he was the film editor for a 82 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:44.319 number of years, and they had these really good, sharp 83 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:48.560 capsule reviews, and the capsule review of Radio On was 84 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:51.839 very intriguing, this idea of a British road movie, black 85 00:06:51.879 --> 00:06:56.319 and white, cool music. Vin Vendors was involved, and I 86 00:06:56.439 --> 00:06:58.720 was always very intrigued by that. And then I had 87 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:02.240 this opportunity to actually meet Chris and interview him. But 88 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:04.680 I hadn't seen Radio On, and it was a really 89 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:07.720 difficult film to track down at that time. It wasn't 90 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:11.720 on VHS, it was never played on television, and I 91 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:14.199 didn't live anywhere where there was a cinema playing it. 92 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:18.199 So in the end we did get Keith Griffith, who 93 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:20.480 was the producer of Radio On and was still working 94 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:22.920 with Chris. He got someone in the office to make 95 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:25.720 copies of Radio One for us to watch, along with 96 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:29.079 a couple of other Chris's films Chinese Boxes, i think, 97 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:33.439 and so we got this second generation VHS copy of 98 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:36.600 Radio One and we watched it in a little flat 99 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:41.040 in Bristol, which is appropriate on a small television, not 100 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:45.759 unlike the TVs in Radio On, and really had this 101 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:49.279 very high expectation for it, and actually it did more 102 00:07:49.399 --> 00:07:52.639 or less live up to our expectation, more or less 103 00:07:53.560 --> 00:07:56.279 even in this sort of very low grade format. And 104 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:58.639 then of course we went to meet Chris and interview him, 105 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:01.519 and then we got the opportunity to invite him to 106 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:05.240 Bristol where of course he'd been to university and show 107 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:08.040 a thirty five mel print of Radio On. So in 108 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:10.240 a sense, that was really when I got a chance 109 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:12.639 to see it on a cinema screen. And I've actually 110 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:17.360 seen it on a cinema screen three times over the years, 111 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:20.199 which is quite rare to get to see the same 112 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:23.079 film that many times in the cinema, and it grows 113 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:26.199 in my mind each time. So that's the beginning of 114 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:27.600 my connection with Radio One. 115 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:31.120 Yeah, I definitely want to explore more of your connection, 116 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:33.919 especially Radio On remix and what you've done with the 117 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:37.480 film since then. Mark, I know that your story is 118 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:41.080 as equally intriguing, So please the four hours. 119 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:42.200 It's not even close. 120 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:44.759 Now. 121 00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:48.279 This is one of those I've never heard of, this 122 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:52.320 movie that Fun City has put Out, and you and 123 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:55.639 I have talked about this off podcast, and it seemed 124 00:08:55.679 --> 00:08:58.480 like for a while there just about everything they were 125 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:04.320 releasing was something I had no knowledge of and be 126 00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:08.600 sounded really interesting, and they just had this streak. And 127 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:12.440 now they're releasing more things that I'm familiar with, not 128 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:16.039 that their streak is any less interesting, but it was like, 129 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:19.759 why have I not heard of this film Road Movie, 130 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:23.960 Love Road Movies nineteen seventy nine. The pictures that I 131 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:27.440 had seen made me think of new wave and the 132 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:31.519 mod culture at the time, in the late seventies, and 133 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:32.200 I thought. 134 00:09:32.559 --> 00:09:32.879 Why not. 135 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:35.039 I wonder if I had a chance to see this 136 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:38.360 at some point. I took a semester of school in 137 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:42.279 London in nineteen ninety and discover the repertory cinemas there, 138 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:46.480 one of which mister Pettitt mentioned in his interview with you, 139 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:49.320 the Electric Cinema, and I thought, I still have all 140 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:52.519 my old programs. Maybe this is something that I did 141 00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:57.559 see in those or in time Out, which was my 142 00:09:57.759 --> 00:09:59.639 bible while I was there. I don't think it is 143 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:01.879 audition in America. There might be a time out in 144 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:04.120 New York, there might be a time out LA or 145 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:07.000 it used to be. But yeah, when we got there, 146 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:10.840 I discovered that and saw those repertory cinema listings, it 147 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:12.679 became a big deal. But so I looked through my 148 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:16.360 programs and Nope, it never played. I was only there 149 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:20.279 for three or four months. They showed so many wonderful movies, 150 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:22.200 and I thought it must have been one of those 151 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:25.600 that slipped through the cracks and just wasn't put out 152 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:29.120 there a lot. I wasn't intrigued enough to buy the 153 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:33.840 Blu ray. But when I saw it, because I'm a cheapskate, 154 00:10:34.039 --> 00:10:37.320 which everybody listens to my show knows. But when I 155 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:39.919 saw that on your list and that there was an opening, 156 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:43.919 I thought, this is a perfect chance to finally see 157 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:47.519 it and hopefully enjoy it and then get to talk 158 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:50.360 about it. So yeah, first time watch for me. 159 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:53.559 Ben has brought a lot of great titles to the show, 160 00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:56.519 a lot of stuff I've never seen. If I may 161 00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:59.000 not have even heard of. I'd heard of Radio On. 162 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:01.399 I hadn't heard of Saint Jack at the time when 163 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:04.519 we talked about it. Obviously I had at least a 164 00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:07.879 few weeks prior to us talking about it, but yeah, 165 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:10.960 I hadn't heard of that one. This one I know 166 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:13.159 I've read about it. It's one of those that just 167 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:16.000 pervaded my brain. I knew it was there, but I 168 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:19.080 don't think i'd ever seen it. And then I think 169 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:21.720 you mentioned last year or maybe in a year before, Hey, 170 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:23.879 let's do this episode, and I'm like, all right, good, 171 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:27.879 Ben hasn't led me astray yet, and the record still holts. 172 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:30.879 I really enjoyed this one, had a great time with it. 173 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:34.600 Like you, Mark, I was very intrigued because it was 174 00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:38.120 a British road movie. It's funny because when I was 175 00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:41.039 watching it again the other night and I was like, oh, 176 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:43.559 there's really a lot of Get Carter in this, as 177 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:46.960 far as this mysterious death and the guy who has 178 00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:49.799 to travel from London, but this time he's traveling west 179 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:52.360 instead of going north. A little bit shorter of a 180 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:55.679 road trip, I believe. But back in the late seventies, 181 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:58.879 I don't know how we were with your Guys's Rose 182 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:00.440 or whatever, but it's going to take i'm a little 183 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:03.159 bit to get over to Bristol, and then it's all 184 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:05.879 of the adventures along the way and on the way back. 185 00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:09.960 So I was really happy with this one. And I 186 00:12:10.039 --> 00:12:12.360 feel a little bad because We haven't talked about early 187 00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:15.120 Vendors very much on the show at all. We've mostly, 188 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:18.039 I think we did Wings of Desire. We've talked about 189 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:20.840 that period of VIM Vendors' career, but we haven't talked 190 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:24.200 about those early days. Because this does really fit into 191 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:28.320 that you associate produced this one, and it really has 192 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:31.960 a lot of feel of those earlier Vendors movies, especially 193 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:35.320 Alison Cities and the penalties. 194 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:37.600 The goal keep is fear of the penalty. It can 195 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:38.440 be translated in. 196 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:43.639 Even reminded me a little bit of loneliness of the 197 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:46.519 Long Distance Runner, just that kind of it's a little 198 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:50.879 kitchen sinky, angry young man, but our character is such 199 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:54.720 a cipher that it's tough to get into him. We're 200 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:57.320 more of an observer than I would say, like really 201 00:12:57.399 --> 00:12:59.519 in his shoes. At least that's the way that I 202 00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:01.679 felt about it. What did you think, Ben? 203 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:04.480 I was just thinking about the influencers as you were 204 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:07.399 talking there, and I think probably Chris will talk about 205 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:11.600 those in the interview. American Road Movies obviously is a 206 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:14.279 big one. It's funny because when we read that little 207 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:17.240 review in Time Out about Radio one, the idea of 208 00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:21.240 a British Road movie is an oxymoron really in the 209 00:13:21.320 --> 00:13:23.759 sense that we know that the longest journey you can 210 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:26.519 do in the UK is from the South coast up 211 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:29.000 to Scotland, and that's about seven or eight hours in 212 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:32.320 the car. These aren't epic journeys across the desert, so 213 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:35.600 there's already a slight absurdity in it. But then in 214 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:37.840 terms of other influences, there would have been things like 215 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:40.919 two Lane Blacktop? Have you done that on the podcast? 216 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:41.399 Yes? 217 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:41.960 Of course. 218 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:44.759 Fortunately mister Helmer was still with us at the time, 219 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:46.960 so we were able to do that. I wish that 220 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:51.080 book Bumpy Roads. I believe it's called the really definitive 221 00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:54.120 right up of two Lane blacktapp that hadn't that yet 222 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:56.480 come out? I would love to read that and speak 223 00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:57.039 with the Arthur one. 224 00:13:57.080 --> 00:13:57.440 At least. 225 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:01.120 There is a very clear reference to two Lane Blacktop 226 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:05.279 in Ready On, which is the bit when because. 227 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:11.039 Way to the projector no, not quite. 228 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:14.320 It's the bit when he goes into the pub quite 229 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:17.039 early on in the journey and the guy sitting in 230 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:19.559 the corner, and then when he goes back to the car, 231 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:22.600 he's already got into his car, which is really similar 232 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:25.039 to the bit in the diner in two Lane Blacktop 233 00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:28.399 where James Taylor and Dennis Wilson are in the diner 234 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:30.120 and then the girl gets out of one car and 235 00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:32.080 she gets into their car, so when they get in it, 236 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:34.440 she's already there. And I think that's pretty much a 237 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:37.799 straight lift from two Lane Blacktop and in the way 238 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:40.080 that scene, this may be jumping into the film a 239 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:42.320 bit quickly, that scene with the squaddy is a little 240 00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:45.879 it's very two Lane Blacktop in combining some of those 241 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:49.879 unwonted hitchhikers that Warren Oates keeps picking up, plus the 242 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:52.799 girl who gets in the car early. But yes, the 243 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:57.279 characters are that. I think Chris really didn't want to 244 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:01.559 take on the sort of psychological reality of the Kitchen 245 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:05.279 Sink films, it feels to me, and he's talked about 246 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:07.879 this quite a bit the radio. One's reacting against various 247 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:12.879 traditions in British theater and British cinema, and he really 248 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:15.200 was quite radical in the idea that he said, Okay, 249 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:17.639 I'm going to make a film. I'm not really interested 250 00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:21.360 in characters in this traditional sense. They're going to be 251 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:24.320 almost like avatars or figures on a landscape, and I'm 252 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:27.679 much more interested in the landscape, but I'm also interested 253 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:31.240 in what Mark thought. Did you enjoy the film? 254 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:34.320 Yes, I did, And Mike, you brought up a really 255 00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:36.679 interesting point that I hadn't thought of that sort of 256 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:40.240 broadens it for me. Is and same point that you're 257 00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:45.080 making him just being a cipher or an avatar, and 258 00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:49.440 I felt that disconnect from I don't really know what 259 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:54.519 this guy's deal is other than he's not portrayed necessarily 260 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:59.840 as a loser, but he's disconnected as well from his surroundings. 261 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:04.159 From his girlfriend. I'm assuming that takes Off is watching 262 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:07.759 the three TVs and he's not really connecting with her. 263 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:12.720 His chop, his DJ job, And I loved reading this 264 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:16.120 bit of trivia because I'm like, what is this all about? 265 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:19.080 And this may be a British thing that just you know, 266 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:25.120 but apparently there's the United Biscuit Network and so a 267 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:28.399 DJ for a radio station that only plays in factories 268 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:32.799 that make biscuits. What he's not even a DJ for 269 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:35.879 like Radio Free Europe or something like that. He's a 270 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:39.200 DJ for a biscuit factory, but anyway, and he doesn't 271 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:43.840 seem very involved in that obviously, he appreciates music. 272 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:47.519 You get that idea, but it's just a job. 273 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:52.080 And he never really connects with anybody in the film, 274 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:55.720 even the German gal later on. There's a distance there, 275 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:59.919 or there's something there that's keeping them from any romance. 276 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:04.720 And I'm glad there's no force romance in this with her, 277 00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:10.279 but that disconnect was bothering me throughout the film. And 278 00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:15.160 realize whether it's on purpose or not, maybe doesn't really matter, 279 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.359 but I can appreciate it now looking back and saying, oh, 280 00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:21.839 that makes sense. We're not sitting in the passenger seat 281 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:26.920 with him, really watching the home movies of this as 282 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:31.279 an audience, which I don't mind because I love road movies. 283 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:33.759 And part of the reason I love road movies is 284 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:38.279 the traveling is the moving camera attached to a car. 285 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:43.160 It really boils down to that mechanical aspect of the movie. 286 00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:45.759 I don't really care where the people are going. They're 287 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:49.599 going to encounter strange people on their trip. Usually that's 288 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:53.720 what makes it interesting. Their journey is either going to 289 00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:57.720 have some kind of fulfilling ending or nothing at all, 290 00:17:58.759 --> 00:18:02.319 and I'm fine with either way. On that it's really 291 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:04.680 part of the journey. There's nothing better than driving in 292 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:08.359 a car by yourself listening to the radio. I love 293 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:12.200 being able to take trips myself, even if it's a 294 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.359 couple hours, and play whatever music I want to play. 295 00:18:16.519 --> 00:18:18.640 And a lot of times when I'm in the car, 296 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:22.799 I imagine I'm in a movie. It's the way to 297 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:26.519 pass the time. So I felt that way while watching this. 298 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:30.920 Yeah, Chris talks quite a bit about how being inside 299 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:35.079 the car and looking through the window it's a widescreen basically, right, 300 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:38.599 there is something profoundly cinematic about being in a car, 301 00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:42.319 and then the invention of having a radio or a 302 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:44.839 tape recorder and now of course a CD or it'll 303 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.319 connect to your Spotify, of being able to actually curate 304 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:51.519 your own soundtrack and play your own music. And in 305 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:54.880 a sense, if rady On does nothing else, it does 306 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.559 evoke that experience of just being on a journey and 307 00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:04.480 time passing as music plays. And it's all about the contrasts, 308 00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:08.599 the contrast between what's going on outside, what's going on inside, 309 00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:11.279 and the music and the way the music relates to 310 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:13.599 the landscape. I'm sure we're going to talk about the 311 00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:16.160 music in a little bit more detail later, but it 312 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:18.680 is one of the things that makes Radio on such 313 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.319 a striking film is the contrast between the different kinds 314 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:26.079 of music, particularly the craft work and everything else that 315 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:29.200 he listens to. And then yeah, the contrast between him 316 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:32.680 and the biscuit factory is also another amazing thing. And 317 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:36.319 by the way, that's not a common thing. The jaying 318 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:39.000 in factories is not a common thing in the UK, 319 00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:41.640 and I think it was unique to that one company. 320 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:44.920 I don't know how long it lasted for. The only 321 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.240 equivalent I can think of is hospital radio. I don't 322 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.480 know whether you have that in the US, where you 323 00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:55.279 get poor volunteers djaying in hospitals and hoping somebody's listening. 324 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:59.240 Yeah, it's usually just music pipeing end of arfice buildings 325 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:02.279 and stuff. So I thought this is does each factory 326 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.880 have their own network? That's amazing. 327 00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:09.720 Well, I love that he gets a request but decides no, 328 00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:11.119 I'm not going to play that, I'm going to play 329 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:13.559 this other thing for you. And you think that he's 330 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:17.079 this hot shot DJ coming in for his midnight shift 331 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:21.039 or something. He's Jack Nicholson and the King of Marvin Gardens. 332 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:24.759 But no he's not. He's just he puts on this 333 00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:26.920 record and then you get to see the audience and 334 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.680 it's just these poor guys making these biscuits. And I 335 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:34.000 love this idea of the closed circuit versus open circuit 336 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:36.200 kind of idea, this whole thing of him in the 337 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:39.440 car with the music and you get that play of 338 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:42.599 when we cut outside of the car and you don't 339 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:44.960 hear the music that we cut back in. It's that scene. 340 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:48.359 I think it's with Devo doing their version of Satisfaction 341 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.359 earlier than the Are We Not Men We Are Devo album. 342 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:55.519 You probably know very well about that, Mark, because I 343 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:56.079 know you're big. 344 00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.799 Yeah, the Stiff Records version that's mentioned in the interview, 345 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:03.559 I believe your interview with him where they got the 346 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:05.519 rights to a lot of the music that ended up 347 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:10.279 and there was via Stiff Records, and Stiff Records approached 348 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:14.279 Divo early on before that album came out and put 349 00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:18.000 out a couple singles of their music, and I'm I'm 350 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:20.759 pretty sure that's the version that's in the film. It's 351 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:22.839 definitely not the version on the album, like you mentioned. 352 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:26.640 So, I heard an interesting story about Divo once, which 353 00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:29.200 is that if you can get a hold of them, 354 00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:31.079 or at least Mark, I don't know about Jerry, but 355 00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:33.519 for sure with Mark, if you get a hold of 356 00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:36.200 them and you say I want to use your music 357 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:41.359 in my movie. Apparently they really dislike Warner Brothers, so 358 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:44.319 they'll be like, yeah, no problem, go ahead, use it 359 00:21:44.599 --> 00:21:48.240 writes free. Just if somebody questions, you say it's a 360 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:52.519 live version of the song, that's great. So he's got Devo, 361 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:54.960 He's got a version of Mongoloid in this movie. I 362 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:56.799 was like, yeah, okay, interesting. 363 00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:57.519 They hate Warner Brothers. 364 00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:00.240 That is true in a way that what Chris did 365 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.960 with all of the music, and with Keith Griffins as well, 366 00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:05.759 helping with the David Bowie. They knew they could never 367 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:08.799 afford any of this music if they went to big 368 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.559 record companies, so they did the deal with Stiff because 369 00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:16.119 Chris really wanted the Reckless Eric track. But then that 370 00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:19.480 opened up the possibility of using other songs in the 371 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:22.640 Stiff Back catalog, which of course includes the Devo track, 372 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:28.039 because obviously they saw an opportunity to potentially promote their 373 00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:32.000 records through the film. And then you've got the David boeing, 374 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:35.920 which would have been difficult things to get. These were 375 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:39.799 big groups at that time, but it was all personal favors, 376 00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:42.880 and Chris talks about how he went to interviewed and 377 00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:45.960 created an assignment with Melody Maker in the UK just 378 00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:48.640 so that he could give them the script and try 379 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:50.319 to get them on board. So it was all about 380 00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:52.839 reading the script or getting to know Chris, so there 381 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:55.880 wasn't really a financial aspect of it. It was more about, Okay, 382 00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:58.200 I think this is going to be a really cool project, 383 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:02.839 so we'll let you have our music for a song effectively, 384 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:06.039 and that really worked really well. But that may have 385 00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:08.880 been the reason why the film was difficult to see 386 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:12.200 for a long time, because it was the theatrical that 387 00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:14.960 they had given permission for and signed off on, but 388 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:19.319 nothing to do with television, nothing to do with home video, 389 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:22.720 and so that all of those deals had to be 390 00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:25.559 renegotiated much later, and of course I'm sure a lot 391 00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:28.839 more money was involved much later too. But just going 392 00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:30.920 back to that point, you were talking about close circuit, 393 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:34.319 open circuit, like there is a real rigor in the 394 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:37.759 film that Chris seems to be deploying, which is about 395 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:42.519 the diegetic use of music that we really strictly, although 396 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:46.160 he fudges it at various points towards the the beginning 397 00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:49.400 and at the end that we're only really hearing the 398 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:51.599 music that's in the space that the characters are hearing, 399 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.359 and so that means that when you cut outside the car, 400 00:23:55.880 --> 00:23:58.200 you can't have the music that's in the car, which 401 00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:02.720 really is a pu verse way of going against the 402 00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:07.200 tradition of road movies of scenes in cars where the 403 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:09.240 music would then rise up at that point and it 404 00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:12.119 would be like this really cool epiphany moment as the 405 00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:14.799 cars driving through the landscape. He said, it's like silence. 406 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:21.119 There's that element of deliberately going against the pleasure. There 407 00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:23.400 is pleasure in the music, but then it stops, and 408 00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:26.839 were reminded, actually, we're in a reality, a very strange, 409 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:29.359 dislocated reality, but we are in a reality. 410 00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:35.000 There's no way that Dennis Happer and Peter Finder heard Steppenwolf, 411 00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:37.440 especially there around those motorcycles. It's not like they had 412 00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:39.960 some sort of Wi Fi speakers blaring that at him 413 00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:42.039 or something. So that was amazing to me. Now, when 414 00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:45.640 I see people on motorcycles just blaring their music so much, 415 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:49.039 I'm like, Okay, I guess you really can't hear that otherwise, 416 00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:52.200 but I wish that just pumped into your helmet instead, 417 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:54.799 but it seems a little dangerous to me even that way. 418 00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:55.759 Yeah. 419 00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:59.519 Also, he breaks the circuit in a way with the 420 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:01.720 very end to the movie when he leaves the car 421 00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:04.559 doors open and leaves everything open and you hear the 422 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:07.920 music bouncing around this quarry that he's at. I just 423 00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:12.240 really love that he that's one of the later, if 424 00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:14.440 not one of the last, scenes in the film, and 425 00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:17.559 that he breaks that circuit with that. This whole idea 426 00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:21.039 too of his brother as far as I know, and 427 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:22.720 please correct me if I'm wrong, if I get any 428 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:25.279 of the details of the movie wrong, but it feels 429 00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:26.960 like his brother is the one that sends him the 430 00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:29.920 package at the beginning, with the cassette tape, So it's 431 00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:33.359 almost like his brother is the one programming the playlist. 432 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:36.680 Here's this music and it's going to put you in 433 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:40.359 the headspace of me and something has happened to me. 434 00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:43.039 It is interesting to think of that. Get carterists because 435 00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:46.519 it's like, yeah, he's going to investigate and quotes his 436 00:25:46.599 --> 00:25:49.960 brother's death, but he really doesn't. He just goes there, 437 00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:52.839 it's not what happened to my brother, And just like 438 00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:56.839 questioning people and getting on this tale of revenge. No, 439 00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:00.799 it just goes and sees what's going on. And yeah, 440 00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:05.160 it's very laid back with all of this and just 441 00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:08.079 all the people that he meets, and yeah, he goes 442 00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:09.880 into a bar. You hear the music in the bar, 443 00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:15.240 he meets things playing the guitar. Every single stop seems 444 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:18.240 to have music playing in a different way, and I 445 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:21.039 really like what he's doing with that. And yet it's 446 00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:24.599 so important this music and just such great music as well, 447 00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:27.279 Like it is a really I don't know if there 448 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:30.359 was ever a soundtrack album put out, but this is 449 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:33.880 a solid soundtrack of music. Every single song seems to 450 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:37.279 add to the ambiance of the film, and especially that 451 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.119 kraft work is just so good and just it plays 452 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:44.839 with being on the road. Listening to craft Work in 453 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:47.839 a car is a real treat if people haven't done that. 454 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:51.319 The other one I would recommend, and it's related to Bowie, 455 00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:54.720 is listening to Brian Eno in the car. Especially Third Uncle, 456 00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:57.359 I feel is like one of the best driving songs 457 00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:01.119 that has ever been put out. There really a great moment. 458 00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:03.480 If you can get that Third Uncle going and get 459 00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:05.839 on a lonely highway, please do it. 460 00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:10.039 I've got a new task to put on my check first. 461 00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:14.359 Here he does actually solve the mystery, though, doesn't he 462 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:18.079 because he goes through the slides and he does basically 463 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:21.880 put that together with the radio news about the pornography 464 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.000 ring in the West Country in Bristol. We basically do 465 00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:28.400 understand that his brother was in trouble because he was 466 00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:31.559 somehow connected to this porn ring, because we do see 467 00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:35.039 that really pretty graphically unpleasant hardcore porn at. 468 00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:38.160 The end, probably another reason it didn't play on TV. 469 00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:44.319 Yeah, I was as surprised that, and that's why it's 470 00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:48.480 an eighteen sert. Yeah, yes, exactly. It would have had 471 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:51.079 real problems being played on the UK TV at that 472 00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:54.039 time for sure, And so we have to assume that 473 00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:57.599 the suicide is probably related to being caught as a 474 00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:01.519 pornographer in some way. But yes, he's not exactly missed 475 00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:05.519 a detective. Although another trivia note is watching the Detectives 476 00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:09.160 was on Stiff Records and Elvis Costello did not give 477 00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:11.079 permission to use it in radio one. 478 00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:13.960 Yeah, one of the two songs I think that he 479 00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:15.759 was trying to get that he wasn't able to and 480 00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:18.079 I can't remember what the other one was. That reckless 481 00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:20.359 Eric song. I was very unfamiliar with that, but that 482 00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:20.880 was great. 483 00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:27.000 It was by Nick Lowe, who produced Reckless Eric. I think, yeah, that. 484 00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:28.559 Was one of my favorites from the film and I 485 00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:30.720 was like, who is that? I had to shazam it 486 00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:32.880 as I was watching the movie. I didn't want to stop, 487 00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:34.640 and I was like, oh, this is great, So now 488 00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:36.240 I know who it is and I can load it 489 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:39.200 up on my phone. I totally missed the connection. I'm 490 00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:42.519 going to admit here the plumb Ring and I just 491 00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:46.480 kept I was listening to the news bites and the 492 00:28:46.599 --> 00:28:50.599 sound bites and hearing there. It just seemed like we're 493 00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:55.319 getting this image of Britain at the time. There was 494 00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:59.799 something about a bank hostage scenario and of course the 495 00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:03.319 fighting in Northern Ireland and all, and I'm like, again, 496 00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:05.599 though he's still so disaffected. 497 00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:08.079 It's just news that you're hearing. 498 00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:12.720 And I get that, especially these days in our country, 499 00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:17.240 it's just a NonStop barrage of bad news and it's what. 500 00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:17.720 Do you do? 501 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:19.200 You keep going on? 502 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:23.680 And yeah, so the porn ring and the slide show, 503 00:29:24.279 --> 00:29:28.079 I completely miss that. But we haven't even mentioned We're 504 00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:30.440 talking about the music, but we haven't mentioned that great 505 00:29:31.160 --> 00:29:34.839 title sequence at the beginning the opening titles, and how 506 00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:38.240 I believe I again, correct me if I'm wrong. That's 507 00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:41.359 the first thing that comes up in the titles is 508 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:46.680 the music and spelt typed out by song, by artists 509 00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:48.319 and by song. And I had never seen that in 510 00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:51.680 a movie before from the get go, that the music 511 00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:53.720 is very important to this film. 512 00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:56.440 Yeah, that was a very bitter choice. 513 00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:00.359 Yeah, because music is almost always the last thing you 514 00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:04.240 might see music in some teen eighties movies because they 515 00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:07.839 want to sell it to the kids with music by 516 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:11.519 Duran Duran or whatever. But you're right, Mike, it's the 517 00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:13.920 last thing in the credits, and then you finally get 518 00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:16.880 to see who the artists and song titles are here. 519 00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:19.839 It's right up front. And then in the same vein 520 00:30:20.839 --> 00:30:24.400 the title of the film, on the Marquee going by. 521 00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:26.880 I loved that little touch. 522 00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:30.400 That's Bristol by the way. Yeah, so of course the 523 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.640 opening sequence takes place in Bristol, so that's where we're 524 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:35.359 going to go. And then it cuts to the Hippodrome, 525 00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:38.319 which is a big theater in Bristol, and they obviously 526 00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:42.000 managed to persuade them to put radio on there instead 527 00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:45.240 of Godspell, which is actually you can see downstairs below. 528 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:47.880 Godspell is the musical that happened to be on at 529 00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:51.400 the Hippodrome. I saw Annie there in the early eighties 530 00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:55.680 because I was brought up quite near there. I lived 531 00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:58.799 quite near Bristol as a little kid, so in a 532 00:30:58.839 --> 00:31:02.039 way that prem all the Bristol of it all. But 533 00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:07.039 then yes, you get that incredible steady cam shot through 534 00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:12.079 the very very cramped Bristol house that then reveals the 535 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:14.640 body in the bathtub. But the body, as many people 536 00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:17.200 have commented, it's almost like the body in the other there, 537 00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:19.400 but it's not that big a deal. And then it 538 00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:22.440 goes past it, and then it comes back. And then 539 00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:24.319 of course the music is supposed to be playing on 540 00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:28.319 the radio, and it is this version of Heroes by 541 00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:33.200 Bowie recorded in Berlin, as Heroes was. But then it's 542 00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:36.480 this bilingual version of Heroes, which is quite a rare 543 00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:40.480 track and anyhow, which I had never heard. And it's 544 00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:43.200 almost like you start with the Bang. You start with 545 00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:47.000 the most well known song of all, the greatest hit 546 00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:48.960 in a way, the song that normally would be saved 547 00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:51.079 for the end of the film. Again, it's a bit 548 00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:53.319 like the reversal of putting the music at the beginning 549 00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:55.160 rather than at the end. There's this kind of flipping 550 00:31:55.240 --> 00:31:59.319 of expectations. You begin with the most incredible pop song 551 00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:02.759 and the one that most people would save, but you 552 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:04.319 just get it out of the way. And actually, if 553 00:32:04.359 --> 00:32:08.119 you follow those musical credits, you'll realize, oh, they're in order. Actually, 554 00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:11.640 so we've got Bowie, he's got two tracks, he's got 555 00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:13.920 Heroes and always Crushing in the same car, a much 556 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:17.359 more obscure album track. And then you, oh, we're not 557 00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:19.960 that's it. We've heard Heroes, we're not coming back to it. 558 00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:22.759 And now we've got these other songs that you may 559 00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:25.480 or may not have heard of that are all to come. 560 00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:27.799 And of course, if you do keep your eyes open 561 00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:31.200 during that opening sequence, you'll know what's coming. You'll know 562 00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:33.799 what tracks are coming up, and you'll also know which 563 00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:34.880 ones haven't played yet. 564 00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:39.559 Yeah, that use of heroes as the end theme, that's 565 00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:42.079 something I've seen. I want to say, Perks of Being 566 00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:44.799 a Wallflower might have that at the end, and almost 567 00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:48.079 positive that Jojo Rabbit has that at the end, including 568 00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:52.400 that same German version. So yeah, it's like the thing 569 00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:55.240 that you play at the end, We are done with this. 570 00:32:55.480 --> 00:32:58.839 We are heroes forever and ever, and just yeah, it's 571 00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:01.440 like such a big clib, but no, it's the beginning. 572 00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:04.480 And it's this very I don't want to say non 573 00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:07.000 descript shot, because we all talk about it and it's 574 00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:09.279 definitely something that's written about quite a bit, but this 575 00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:13.160 very that's a low key shot going into the apartment 576 00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:16.039 and going around coming across that. We are the children 577 00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:19.960 of Vernon from Britz lanynd Or von Brown and Fritz Lang. 578 00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:24.000 That's a great quote. And then yeah, like moving away 579 00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:25.880 from the body, like you said, then coming back to 580 00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:28.119 the body, Oh, there's this thing over here, but I'm 581 00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:30.200 more interested in this to the right, and I'll come 582 00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:32.359 back to the left eventually and find this body in 583 00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:36.559 the bathtub. Yeah. I think that's just brilliant the way 584 00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:39.960 that they do that. And again it's okay, I guess 585 00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:43.319 this is the radio and again more of a broadcast 586 00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:45.359 medium and the whole thing that you're talking about with 587 00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:49.920 all of the news stories definitely being broadcast across there, 588 00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:53.079 and yeah, really setting the tone of what England was 589 00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:56.880 like in nineteen seventy nine. And we haven't talked about 590 00:33:56.920 --> 00:34:00.279 shooting this in black and white was a great idea, yeah, 591 00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:05.519 and just making everything even more stark than it normally would. 592 00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:09.559 But those shots of the apartment blocks, just going across 593 00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:13.440 those they seem like silent giants looking down on the 594 00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:14.360 freeway or something. 595 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:15.400 They are just. 596 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:17.440 Filled with life, but it doesn't look like it. It 597 00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:20.679 almost looks post apocalyptic at times going through this landscape, 598 00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:22.920 and just to see those blocks, that reminds me of 599 00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:25.960 High Rise by Ballard, and there's definitely a Ballard feel 600 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:28.960 to this. It reminds me a little bit of dread 601 00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:32.039 with the Peachtree apartments and those mega blocks that they 602 00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:35.360 have as these tall apartment buildings. Then it even takes 603 00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:38.400 me to that horrific fire that happened in one of 604 00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:41.679 those a few years ago. Grenfolds, Yeah, yeah, and it 605 00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:44.760 was just like, oh, this is a horrible situation, but 606 00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:47.320 we're really not going to change anything, so fuck you guys, 607 00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:50.239 good luck. And yeah, with this being nineteen seventy nine, 608 00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:54.599 Maggie's in charge, and well she will be soon just 609 00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:57.159 about to have this. Oh that's right, she comes in 610 00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:59.400 right around the time Reagan comes in for us. 611 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:03.079 The interesting thing is when they were filming and I 612 00:35:03.159 --> 00:35:05.800 had to check this, because of course I was just 613 00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:09.000 a small boy when they were making Radio On. It 614 00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:11.719 was during March, so I think they were filming January 615 00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:14.360 to March seventy nine. So the film was made very quickly. 616 00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:16.719 It was released by the end of the year. So 617 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:19.719 when it began filming, it was still a Labor government. 618 00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:21.880 By the time the film came out, Actua had become 619 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.840 Prime Minister, and it was during March that there was 620 00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:28.440 the vote of no confidence in the Labor government, where 621 00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:30.519 the Prime Minister at that time with James Callahan, and 622 00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:33.760 they'd been all of these strikes and the unions had 623 00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:37.440 been causing the Labor government a lot of trouble and 624 00:35:38.119 --> 00:35:40.719 the country was really being felt to be falling apart, 625 00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:44.519 not dissimilar to how it is now, but this time 626 00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:47.239 it was the other way around. It was the Tories 627 00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:51.079 coming in against Labor. And then of course so many 628 00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:54.360 things changed after that. And that is really a key 629 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:57.840 point about Radio On for US Brits, which is that 630 00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:02.320 it is a film that occurs in this thisliminal moment 631 00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:05.000 at the end of the Labor government and the beginning 632 00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:08.760 of a really monumental time the Conservatives would be in 633 00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:13.800 power for eighteen years and the country would change phenomenally 634 00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:17.239 during that time, and there's a sense in radio on 635 00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:20.519 almost looking to the future and thinking, I'm not sure 636 00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:24.519 about this. Robert, the character by David Beams, he says 637 00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:27.920 that at one point we're all afraid, don't really know 638 00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:30.480 what of But there is a sense of fear, a 639 00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:33.360 sense of we don't know what the future is. And 640 00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:36.719 the future is represented by things like technology, it's represented 641 00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:41.119 by architecture, but there's an ambiguity about that. Clearly the 642 00:36:41.320 --> 00:36:44.400 film is in love with architecture, in love with technology, 643 00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:47.440 but it's also slightly afraid of it as well, and 644 00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:50.760 it's always looking back. There's a feeling of kind of 645 00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:54.400 retro futurism about the film, even in the music. The 646 00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:58.199 music might seem futuristic, but there's a looking back at 647 00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:01.000 the past element. Even craftwork has a very sort of 648 00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:05.920 human feel to it with the vocals. It's not purely 649 00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:09.239 about the future. It's also about trying to find out 650 00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:12.039 where is the humanity in this which is quite strange 651 00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:14.920 because it is a very alienated film. But there is 652 00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:18.079 a feeling of looking trying to search for some kind 653 00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:23.039 of humanity, even though everybody seems very alienated and dislocated 654 00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:25.480 from where they're supposed to be or where they're going. 655 00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:28.760 But yeah, it's about capturing that particular moment, and I 656 00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:31.679 think that's why the film has a lot of potency 657 00:37:32.119 --> 00:37:34.679 for Us Brits, because it does seem to speak to 658 00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:37.920 this moment but at the end of the seventies and 659 00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:42.199 into the eighties, which reflects something that you guys experienced too, 660 00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:45.039 as Reagan took over around the same time. 661 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:49.199 Yeah, which you don't really feel until much later. If 662 00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:54.559 you're like Mike, it looks like we're roughly on around 663 00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:58.239 the same age. So I was eleven and nineteen eighty 664 00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:01.639 and Reagan becoming president had no real meaning and it 665 00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:04.599 didn't really affect me until years later. 666 00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:06.119 It's still affecting us. 667 00:38:06.519 --> 00:38:09.559 And so now at fifty five, it's okay, now I 668 00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:12.599 get what was going on, and all the punk music 669 00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:16.880 that was coming out, and these movies that were speaking 670 00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:19.039 to this and repo man. 671 00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:20.679 And this, that and the other thing, and. 672 00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:26.639 Man made by Britt of course maybe Brett, Yeah, you're 673 00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:29.400 not thinking of that when you're in the midst of 674 00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:32.119 it as a kid. I have to admit to missing 675 00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:36.199 another key important thing about the movie. I thought that 676 00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:39.199 was him and his bathtub at the opening. 677 00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:43.119 I the first time I watched it, I thought, okay, yeah. 678 00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:47.079 I missed it both times apparently, and I part of that, 679 00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:52.320 I think was their apartments were very similar, small little 680 00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:55.679 cramped procass and one was a bit had a bit 681 00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:56.519 more space. 682 00:38:56.280 --> 00:38:59.079 In it as a lot of maybe brother's girlfriend. Right, 683 00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:02.159 there is a difference in the art direction. 684 00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:04.400 You know, now that I'm thinking of it. His appointment 685 00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:08.239 was more open, but it seemed like it was set 686 00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:10.880 up the same way that their bathtubs look exactly the same. 687 00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:12.679 Because he is in the bath at some point. 688 00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:16.280 I believe that when he gets the phone call and 689 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:18.280 we don't really know who calls him, we assume it 690 00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:21.440 could be his mother, he says something like in the bath, 691 00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:24.719 which is a sort of key bit of exposition, and 692 00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:28.360 that phone call is one of the most conventional moments 693 00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:31.320 in the film in terms of here is some information 694 00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:35.119 that is now going to push the storyline forward. Chris 695 00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:38.519 actually has talked in interviews about how that relates to 696 00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:40.920 the scene in Performance, which was the last film I 697 00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:44.840 talked about on the Projection Book with Mike where James 698 00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:48.039 Fox overhears the address of the house when he's in 699 00:39:48.119 --> 00:39:50.599 the train station, which is a very kind of clunky 700 00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:55.400 scene but almost played up for maximum clunkiness by Nick 701 00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:58.159 Rogan Donald Cammell. It's a bit like that here where 702 00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:00.920 here is the bit of info, and I think it 703 00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:04.440 keys us into the bath idea because then he goes 704 00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:07.159 in a bath. After that, he takes a bath after 705 00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:10.239 he finds out that his brother committed suicide in a bath. 706 00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:13.719 Later on, when he's in Bristol, he touches the bath 707 00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:17.119 and he looks at the bath. I realized as I 708 00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:20.000 was thinking about the film recently that actually they didn't 709 00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:23.760 need to film that scene in Bristol, the bath tub 710 00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:25.119 and all the stuff in the apartment. They could have 711 00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:28.039 easily filmed that in London. So again there's being true 712 00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:30.679 to the journey. They really went for it. They're like, Okay, 713 00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:33.440 this takes place in Bristol, so we're going to film 714 00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:35.400 it in Bristol. But we never see the exterior of 715 00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:39.000 that apartment, so we never really can locate it. And 716 00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:43.440 it's actually part of a really beautiful row of Georgian 717 00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:48.840 terraced houses in Clifton and Bristol, which are stunningly beautiful, 718 00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:52.480 but obviously Pettit didn't want anything that looked that beautiful. 719 00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:55.000 I think he just wanted to films it from the inside. 720 00:40:55.800 --> 00:40:58.960 And the way that Robert b and I love. Somebody 721 00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:01.840 pointed out, like Robert is very similar to Joseph KA 722 00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:03.840 and I was trying to count the letters. It's not 723 00:41:04.039 --> 00:41:07.760 exactly the exact same number like IBM and hol like 724 00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:09.960 you go up one down one up one kind of thing. 725 00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:13.280 It's that like you go up eight for Robert and 726 00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:15.119 down four for Joseph or whatever. 727 00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:18.320 I wanted to ask you, guys, what's your sense of Bristol? 728 00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:22.000 Do you know anything about Bristol? What context do you 729 00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:23.639 have for Bristol? Oh? 730 00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:27.239 Boy, that's not where part of Quadrophenia takes place, is it. 731 00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:30.000 No, that's brighton right nothing. 732 00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:31.280 There is. 733 00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:35.639 The link with Quadrophenia is through Sting. Of course. Actually 734 00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:39.880 Sting is in Quadraphenia playing like the really cool mode 735 00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:43.440 and it was the beginning of his career in a sense, 736 00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:46.920 because police hadn't really made it through and that comes out. 737 00:41:47.599 --> 00:41:50.400 Quadrophenia comes out around the same time as Radio One, 738 00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:53.360 which would be towards the end of seventy nine, and 739 00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:56.159 then message in a bottle comes out, and so that 740 00:41:56.320 --> 00:42:01.480 really blasts sting into the stratosphere at that. But Bristol 741 00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:04.719 is not Brighton. Bristol is kind of an interesting city 742 00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:09.639 in terms of culture. It's famous for music, and that 743 00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:12.320 would be mostly a little bit later, things like Massive 744 00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:15.800 Attack and Porter's Head, so the whole nineties trip hop 745 00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:20.440 sound comes out of Bristol. It's a really great city, 746 00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:24.360 it's all there's a lot of hills in Bristol. There's 747 00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:28.760 a lot of diversity, it's very laid back. It's a 748 00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:32.360 kind of city where people go to chill. So there 749 00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:36.199 are really creative people there, but they're not necessarily massively productive. 750 00:42:36.679 --> 00:42:38.760 So anyone who really wants to have a career usually 751 00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:41.599 leaves Bristol and goes to London, which is basically what 752 00:42:41.800 --> 00:42:43.880 Chris did. He went to university there, he got out, 753 00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:46.679 So going back to Bristol might be seen as a 754 00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:49.840 bit of a retro step, but it does also have 755 00:42:50.119 --> 00:42:53.760 a kind of long history of protests and dissent. There's 756 00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:57.280 also a new age equality around Bristol too, because it's 757 00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:01.239 near Glastonbury, where the Glastonbury Festival is near there too, 758 00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:05.280 so there's a countercultural thing going on in Bristol. That's 759 00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:08.800 really the key point for BRIT's watching Radio On. It 760 00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:11.239 is a big contrast to London. But the other thing 761 00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:15.000 is that Bristol is not often represented in film. Somehow. 762 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:18.480 There aren't that many classic films made in Bristol. There's 763 00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:20.920 been quite a bit of television shot in Bristol, but 764 00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:24.280 very few movies. So that's another reason why Radio On 765 00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:26.960 has a bit of a cult around it, because it 766 00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:31.719 is one of the few really cinematic films to depict Bristol. 767 00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:34.239 In the second half, and then it goes off into 768 00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:36.880 this town called Western super Mare, which is on the coast, 769 00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:40.519 about half an hour from Bristol, which again is usually 770 00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:43.639 seen as not a very cool place, but somehow Chris 771 00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:46.400 makes the best of it. And in fact the house 772 00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:49.760 that they visit where the German lady lives, isn't in 773 00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:52.280 Western that's back in Bristol, So there is a bit 774 00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:55.719 of fudging of the geography. Even the way he drives 775 00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:59.000 into Bristol is not correct because he goes over that 776 00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:04.400 bridge past the hotel, which is very important because later 777 00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:07.159 on there'll be in the hotel and the camera will 778 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:09.559 be in a car driving across the bridge the other way, 779 00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:11.920 seeing them through the windows, which is one of the 780 00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:15.760 most iconic shots in the film. It's an amazing shot, 781 00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:18.599 isn't it. But actually, if you were coming from London, 782 00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:21.679 you wouldn't go over that bridge. There is a bit 783 00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:24.800 of fudging of geography in it, but it's still wonderful 784 00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:27.679 for us Brits, especially those of us who've lived in Bristol, 785 00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:30.719 to get to see Bristol being depicted in that way. 786 00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:33.400 And we should mention the name of the cinematographer, which 787 00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:38.119 is Martin Schaefer, who died tragically young, and he had 788 00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:42.719 been Robbie Muller's assistant cameraman on a number of those 789 00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:45.800 Vin Vendor's films, but by the time they made Ready 790 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:49.280 On he'd already started to venture off and become a 791 00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:52.400 fully fledged cinematographer of his own. And I know that 792 00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:55.000 because it connects with Saint Jack, which is the film 793 00:44:55.280 --> 00:45:00.079 I've written about, because Robbi Muller did the cinematography for 794 00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:03.199 Saint Jack with his team. He had a very close 795 00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:05.960 knit team and Martin had been part of that team, 796 00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:09.400 but he had gone his own way and become his 797 00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:12.480 own cinematographer and part of that was going to work 798 00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:14.840 with Chris on radio on and that was the beginning 799 00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:16.920 of that and they actually worked together a number of times. 800 00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:22.960 But the cinematography is really extraordinary. It is amazing seeing it. 801 00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:25.400 I've seen in the cinema a couple of times watching 802 00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:27.320 the Blu Ray. I'm watching a different Blu Ray to 803 00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:29.639 you guys, but I'm sure it's basically the same file. 804 00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:32.880 I'm watching the British Blue Ray. It just is unbelievable 805 00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:34.639 that black and white photography. 806 00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:39.559 With Robert b his apartment, that those TV sets. I 807 00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:41.159 don't know if this was a reference or that, but 808 00:45:41.199 --> 00:45:43.719 still reminded me that at a much smaller scale. It 809 00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:45.960 reminded me of The Man who Fell to Earth when 810 00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:48.400 David Bowie is there and he's got all those TVs 811 00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:51.000 that he's watching, but she's got what three. 812 00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:53.639 Oh, it's a steal. It's totally a steal from the 813 00:45:53.719 --> 00:45:55.800 matter of Feldwe Yeah, okay, I'm sure. 814 00:45:55.639 --> 00:45:57.880 It is good. I'm glad it wasn't just me, all right. 815 00:45:57.960 --> 00:45:58.960 I love that though. 816 00:45:59.000 --> 00:45:59.880 I always love to see it. 817 00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:02.400 That kind of stuff tickles me when I see it 818 00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:05.920 pop up in movies, those odd things that it's like, 819 00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:07.679 why do they do this every once in a while 820 00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:10.400 you catch something like that. Who has three or four 821 00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:11.559 TVs in their house? 822 00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:14.000 Usually conspiracy theorists. 823 00:46:14.239 --> 00:46:17.320 Yeah, the vendors connection, which I didn't really know about 824 00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:20.400 it prior to watching it, but when you sent over 825 00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:23.239 the material, I was like, oh, okay, this kind of 826 00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:27.360 makes sense. And then I as it's playing with the 827 00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:32.280 music being so important black and white vendors connection, I 828 00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:35.199 immediately thought of Stranger than Paradise, one of my all 829 00:46:35.320 --> 00:46:39.199 time favorite road movies, where not a lot happens, it's 830 00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:43.920 inconsequential the things that do happen. They go on a 831 00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:47.159 trip for really no good reason and it doesn't necessarily 832 00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:50.280 pan out the way they want it to. So that 833 00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:54.800 came to mind immediately. When he encounters the German ladies 834 00:46:55.760 --> 00:47:00.599 and she starts talking about her daughter, and then she 835 00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:05.159 says the name Alice, and I was like, if that's 836 00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:07.280 not a reference to Alice in the Cities, I don't 837 00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:09.400 know what. And then I looked her up and I'm like, shit, 838 00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:10.960 she's in Alice. 839 00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:11.159 In the City. 840 00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:14.840 She's Alice's mom, And I'm like okay, And I don't 841 00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:17.880 even think I really grasped the full connection with having 842 00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:23.280 Vendors Dop or assistant Dop and the sound guy. I 843 00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:25.719 got that from your inaul to. I was like, okay, 844 00:47:26.039 --> 00:47:29.719 it's all over the film. Then I'm not crazy. But 845 00:47:29.800 --> 00:47:31.880 the Alice in the Cities thing I thought was interesting. 846 00:47:31.960 --> 00:47:35.880 It's obviously not a direct reference to the film because 847 00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:37.639 the story is a little bit different in the Cities, 848 00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:41.679 but I found it interesting that it was the same 849 00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:45.719 actress and her characters in both films have a daughter 850 00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:46.320 named Alice. 851 00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:47.280 Yeah. 852 00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:51.159 I can't help but think Chris plugged into that he 853 00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:54.159 needed supposedly, and he probably talks about this in the 854 00:47:54.199 --> 00:47:56.880 interview with you, Mike. He needed to include a German 855 00:47:56.960 --> 00:47:59.840 element and he needed German actors. Partly it came from 856 00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:03.400 the cinematography and Martin Miller doing sound, but he also 857 00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:05.719 needed an actor as well, so he got Lisa Kreutzer, 858 00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:08.639 who had been married to Vin Vendors. I think they'd 859 00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:12.480 recently split up when they made Radio On, and she 860 00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:15.559 had been in those films, including The American Friend as well. 861 00:48:16.360 --> 00:48:20.719 And then Chris basically just took the storyline from Alison 862 00:48:21.239 --> 00:48:23.480 Alis in the Cities because I don't get the feeling 863 00:48:23.559 --> 00:48:27.800 Chris was too worried about story. It wasn't a big 864 00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:30.960 preoccupation for him, so he more or less just plugged 865 00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:34.280 in this sort of off stage drama about a father 866 00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.920 taking a daughter away. And again it adds to the 867 00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:40.599 dislocation because we never see the kid, we never see 868 00:48:40.639 --> 00:48:45.440 the guy. Instead we see this aunt character, and so 869 00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:48.280 we never really we're a bit like Robert. We're about 870 00:48:48.280 --> 00:48:51.679 as unengaged in that storyline as Robert is, and yet 871 00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:54.199 we have to be engaged because we want to see 872 00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:56.880 where things go with this woman. And I really love 873 00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:01.760 Lisa Kreutz's performance. She is so soulful and there's such 874 00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:05.440 a real sense of a real person in her performance. 875 00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:08.519 And she's almost, in a way, almost on a different 876 00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:11.840 level to the British actors in terms of being able 877 00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:16.039 to act within this sort of art movie sensibility. I 878 00:49:16.119 --> 00:49:18.119 feel like some of the British actors struggle with it, 879 00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:21.800 particularly the two girlfriends, the one at the beginning in 880 00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:25.000 the flat and Sandy Ratcliffe in the Bristol Flat. They 881 00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:28.719 don't quite hit the right tone, and also they don't 882 00:49:28.760 --> 00:49:30.960 have much to do, to be honest, Lisa Kreutz has 883 00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:33.920 a much better role because she's doing the stuff with 884 00:49:34.039 --> 00:49:37.440 the two languages, and she gets to deliver that really 885 00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:40.280 brilliant bit where she says, last night, I thought I 886 00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:42.159 was going to sleep with you, but now I know 887 00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:45.400 I won't, which is one of the most devastating lines 888 00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:46.480 in all of cinema. 889 00:49:47.480 --> 00:49:49.800 It makes a lot of sense, though, and you get that. 890 00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:53.639 I think she gets that dislocation that everybody else is 891 00:49:53.719 --> 00:49:57.519 feeling about Robert, And yeah, she's definitely the most human 892 00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:01.599 character that he encounters, including himself. 893 00:50:01.719 --> 00:50:04.559 Really yeah, and I believe Ben you mentioned earlier the 894 00:50:04.599 --> 00:50:06.760 whole idea of being on the outside too, when it 895 00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:10.000 comes to them speaking German and there's no subtitles, which 896 00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:12.760 is nice. We're supposed to be more and Robert shoes 897 00:50:12.840 --> 00:50:15.679 and not understand what they're saying and just being that 898 00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:20.199 dislocated they speak their own thing and I'm on the outside. 899 00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:22.760 I do have to say too, there's a little irony 900 00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:25.360 here of us talking about this whole idea of broadcast 901 00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:28.400 narrow cast all this as we're on a podcast, and 902 00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:31.360 it's just this does not go out to the world. 903 00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:35.800 This goes to you, the listener. One person who gets 904 00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:38.920 this file and then listens to it, probably in the car, 905 00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:41.440 maybe you're on a job right now, who knows what. 906 00:50:41.559 --> 00:50:43.239 Maybe you're in a biscuit factory. 907 00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:45.400 You could be in a biscuit factory. There could be 908 00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:49.719 some mad podcast DJA working in a biscuit factory right now, 909 00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:53.400 subjecting all of those poor employees to us talking about 910 00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:56.639 radio on But just that idea of how broadcast and 911 00:50:56.800 --> 00:51:01.920 narrowcast changes over the years, yeah to be especially for England, 912 00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:05.119 I think you guys had what two channels, three channels 913 00:51:05.239 --> 00:51:07.400 or something. We had a few channels over here as 914 00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:11.119 far as video goes, as far as television, but you 915 00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:15.000 were limited very much by a few channels on FM, 916 00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:18.360 and then each one of those had their specialty to it, 917 00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:21.480 so you probably didn't flip around the channels too many times. 918 00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:23.719 Maybe there's four or five channels that you would maybe 919 00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:25.719 want to listen to, and the rest of its garbage. 920 00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:29.320 So being able to control what you listen to, being 921 00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:32.199 able to have that cassette player in your car suddenly 922 00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:34.960 gives you that power of being able to control the 923 00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:37.480 medium and just I want to listen to this. I 924 00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:39.320 don't want to listen to what's being fit to me. 925 00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:41.239 I want to hear this other thing. And I think 926 00:51:41.440 --> 00:51:44.519 also that speaks to the punk rockness of this type 927 00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:46.840 of movie, where it's I don't want to listen to 928 00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:49.079 the local bands. I don't want to listen to the 929 00:51:49.239 --> 00:51:52.519 corporate rock that's coming out on BBC one or whatever. 930 00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:55.000 I want to listen to this German band. I want 931 00:51:55.039 --> 00:51:57.719 to listen to these punk bands. I don't want to 932 00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:01.480 engage with what everybody else is doing and I just 933 00:52:01.519 --> 00:52:03.400 want to live my own life and just have my 934 00:52:03.559 --> 00:52:04.239 own music. 935 00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:09.239 Yeah, which speaks to this notion of the individual versus 936 00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:12.360 the community or the larger society, because this really is 937 00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:16.239 a film about individuals who are strange from each other 938 00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:19.280 bumping into each other. I realized there's so much in 939 00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:23.960 the film where characters run out on each other, they abandoned, 940 00:52:23.960 --> 00:52:28.559 They're always abandoning each other. At the beginning, his girlfriend 941 00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:31.280 basically leaves him, and he was going to leave her anyway. 942 00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:32.639 He was obviously going to jump in the car and 943 00:52:32.719 --> 00:52:35.800 go to Bristol, and then of course he abandons the 944 00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:40.480 squadye who's gone for a piss and that is a 945 00:52:40.599 --> 00:52:43.920 really I think that sequence from the pub onwards to 946 00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:48.920 him driving away at that really striking hill which is 947 00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:51.760 called Silbury Hill, which is a prehistoric man made hill. 948 00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:55.880 Is really quite a brilliant sequence, and actually it's the 949 00:52:55.960 --> 00:52:59.320 first time anyone's really spoken in the film properly, because 950 00:52:59.400 --> 00:53:01.519 up to now there's been that very stilted dialogue in 951 00:53:01.559 --> 00:53:04.599 the phone call. But that squady, when he does that monologue, 952 00:53:04.639 --> 00:53:08.119 it brings everything to life there. And then later when 953 00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:10.440 it's battery runs out, he tries to get help from 954 00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:12.159 that guy, and that guy doesn't want to help him. 955 00:53:12.199 --> 00:53:15.440 He drives off, and then there's more kind of abandoning 956 00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:17.639 and people walking out on each other when we get 957 00:53:17.679 --> 00:53:20.719 to Bristol as well. So it becomes a real motif. 958 00:53:21.239 --> 00:53:24.400 And it's funny because the film seems very loosely assembled, 959 00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:27.440 you know, it seems like one damn thing after another. 960 00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:30.280 But as you realize there's all kinds of mirroring and 961 00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:34.039 doubling going on. Back to the televisions, watching the three 962 00:53:34.119 --> 00:53:37.039 TVs with the sound off. Later on in Bristol, the 963 00:53:37.159 --> 00:53:39.719 girlfriend of the brother will start watching TV with the 964 00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:41.920 sound off as well. It's almost like it's a virus, 965 00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:44.159 and you cut back to her. In a month she'll 966 00:53:44.199 --> 00:53:47.320 have three televisions going as well. So there's this kind 967 00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:52.920 of constant rhyming of different elements and different motifs that 968 00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:55.480 goes on throughout. Even though it does appear to be 969 00:53:56.119 --> 00:53:58.920 thrown together in a way and very episodic, but there 970 00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:01.599 is a real design to it. And I think one 971 00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:04.239 of the reasons why the film really holds up and 972 00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:07.960 doesn't just fall apart is because there is a sense 973 00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:12.039 even from the very beginning of that design of confidence. 974 00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:14.920 That opening shot of course with the steady cam, and 975 00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:17.559 then that sequence from then on when he's in the 976 00:54:17.639 --> 00:54:20.840 car with the cassettes, Like how confident that is just 977 00:54:20.920 --> 00:54:23.320 to hold that shot and just have him being in 978 00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:26.280 the car for that long. There's a real sense of 979 00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:29.920 Chris's confidence as a filmmaker. He's nearly thirty, he's never 980 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:32.119 made a film before, he's never been on a film 981 00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:35.440 set before, and yet he really knows what he's doing, 982 00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:38.559 or at least knows what he wants to communicate through 983 00:54:38.599 --> 00:54:42.679 the film, and that I think that does transmit to 984 00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:47.159 the viewer as well. This filmmaker has an intention that 985 00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:49.159 they're not just slapping this thing together. 986 00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:54.159 I'm so curious about the Eddie Cochran connection with this movie. 987 00:54:55.760 --> 00:55:00.039 I'm not that familiar with Eddie Cochrane. But oddly I 988 00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:02.039 didn't say it was nineteen eighty. The Great rock and 989 00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:06.000 Roll Swindle comes out and there's a cover of something 990 00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:08.880 else on the soundtrack for that, so it's like right 991 00:55:08.920 --> 00:55:12.519 around the same time, same country. He died in England, 992 00:55:12.599 --> 00:55:15.280 right there. Yeah, like they talk about his death. 993 00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:18.000 So he did a gig at the Hippodrome, which is 994 00:55:18.039 --> 00:55:19.519 what we see at the beginning of the film with 995 00:55:19.599 --> 00:55:23.719 the radio on thing coming round, and then he died 996 00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:27.360 in a car accident on the way out of Bristol. 997 00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:30.840 Oh is that it's a car It's even more interesting. Okay, 998 00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:32.280 for some reason I thought it was a plane. I 999 00:55:32.360 --> 00:55:35.280 might be getting him and Buddy Holly and that whole 1000 00:55:35.559 --> 00:55:38.159 death of rock and roll thing because he was from 1001 00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:39.039 that same era. 1002 00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:43.440 Right now, it was a car accident. Yeah, So that 1003 00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:47.400 story is told by Sting, right, he relates that story. 1004 00:55:47.800 --> 00:55:51.039 Yeah, and then Sting there playing that song just constantly, 1005 00:55:51.559 --> 00:55:55.320 and then even having that reprise after Robert leaves the 1006 00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:57.840 movie at that point, abandons the movie to your point 1007 00:55:57.880 --> 00:56:00.400 from earlier, and we're just left with Sting by those 1008 00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:03.480 gas pumps doing a reprise of that Eddie Cachran song, 1009 00:56:04.039 --> 00:56:07.000 which is an interesting choice, and I don't know how 1010 00:56:07.239 --> 00:56:10.960 Chris feels about that today. It sounds like Singer's difficult 1011 00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:11.440 to work with. 1012 00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:15.360 The story about the song being reprised at the end. 1013 00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:19.360 I think was that Martin Shaeffer really liked that idea. 1014 00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:22.599 So Martin Schaeffer essentially pitched that to Chris and said, 1015 00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:25.280 let's set up a tracking shot where the camera pulls 1016 00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:28.599 back and Sting is playing, and will have him do 1017 00:56:28.679 --> 00:56:33.039 the song again. And Chris said, no, that sounds terrible 1018 00:56:33.360 --> 00:56:37.320 because Chris's instincts would of course be I don't want 1019 00:56:37.400 --> 00:56:40.679 anything fun and nice in this film at all. And 1020 00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:43.880 then so they shot it, with Chris going, this is 1021 00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:46.159 just to please the crew. I've got no intention of 1022 00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:48.880 putting it in the film. This is according to Chris. 1023 00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:53.039 And then he saw and thought, actually, yeah, this could work, 1024 00:56:53.440 --> 00:56:56.960 and it becomes a kind of pivot because actually that 1025 00:56:57.239 --> 00:56:59.000 is the end of the first half of the film, 1026 00:56:59.239 --> 00:57:01.039 and it very much the Game of two are of 1027 00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:03.559 that film. Once they get to Bristol, everything sort of 1028 00:57:03.679 --> 00:57:07.159 changes and it becomes a bit less of a road 1029 00:57:07.239 --> 00:57:11.440 movie even though they are driving around. And he felt 1030 00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:14.000 like that Sting song gives the audience a bit of 1031 00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:18.440 pleasure that will propel them through the misery to come 1032 00:57:18.639 --> 00:57:19.159 in prison. 1033 00:57:20.039 --> 00:57:23.280 I'd like to that at least. In one of the interviews, 1034 00:57:23.360 --> 00:57:26.559 Chris mentions Bitter Tears of Petro varon Khant and this 1035 00:57:26.679 --> 00:57:30.719 whole idea of the way that Fastpender plays an entire 1036 00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:34.519 song through the movie just using the Walker Brothers. Just 1037 00:57:34.920 --> 00:57:38.039 movie stops almost and we just played the song and 1038 00:57:38.119 --> 00:57:40.519 then we are there with it. It's almost like proto 1039 00:57:40.679 --> 00:57:44.639 music videotype of stuff that was seventy two when Fastbender 1040 00:57:44.679 --> 00:57:48.480 made that one. And again, nice German influence on this movie, 1041 00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:51.719 because we cannot stress the germanness of this film. 1042 00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:54.840 And Fastbender also was the first person to use craftwork 1043 00:57:54.920 --> 00:57:58.360 in a film. Yeah, Chinese Roulette as a sequence were 1044 00:57:58.639 --> 00:58:01.159 and it's also digetic. It's on a radio or a 1045 00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:04.400 tape machine. There's a woman on crutches who dances to 1046 00:58:04.480 --> 00:58:09.239 craftwork and it's radioactivity. It's the same track. Actually, I 1047 00:58:09.400 --> 00:58:12.800 was thinking craft work. Their relationship with cinema is interesting 1048 00:58:12.840 --> 00:58:15.840 because you'd think in a parallel universe they would have 1049 00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:19.159 done loads of film scores, and they must have been 1050 00:58:19.239 --> 00:58:22.719 offered film scores like Tangerine Dream did that whole run 1051 00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:26.559 of scores, right, but they never did. And actually their 1052 00:58:26.679 --> 00:58:30.559 music has not been used that often in film to 1053 00:58:30.679 --> 00:58:32.760 this day. And I don't know whether that's by design 1054 00:58:32.920 --> 00:58:35.280 or simply because they're very sensitive about who gets to 1055 00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:37.719 use their music or not, because Ralph Fuoteur is obviously 1056 00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:41.199 very protective over the legacy of craft work. But this 1057 00:58:41.400 --> 00:58:44.599 is one of the rare films that has multiple craft 1058 00:58:44.639 --> 00:58:45.360 work tracks in it. 1059 00:58:46.039 --> 00:58:48.519 Yeah, and they all work so well. Just the idea 1060 00:58:48.559 --> 00:58:52.000 of the radioactivity. Hearing that song as we're going across 1061 00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:57.440 these empty Ish landscapes, it's really, like I said, post apocalyptic. 1062 00:58:57.519 --> 00:58:59.559 It feels like we are going through the wreckage. 1063 00:59:00.280 --> 00:59:02.239 Yeah, there is a sci fi quality to it, and 1064 00:59:02.320 --> 00:59:05.079 I think one of the influences again is Alphaville, god 1065 00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:08.280 Os Alphaville, where you film what's there, You film the 1066 00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:11.079 kind of hide of modernity in the city in Paris 1067 00:59:11.239 --> 00:59:14.880 or in London or moving outside of London, and you 1068 00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:18.159 almost treat it as the future, especially when you start 1069 00:59:18.199 --> 00:59:19.400 putting the music on like that. 1070 00:59:20.239 --> 00:59:23.199 Yeah, you find a good piece of brutalist architecture, I 1071 00:59:23.239 --> 00:59:26.559 should say, And that's half the job right there. That's 1072 00:59:26.639 --> 00:59:30.440 so much of a total recall when Quetas on Earth 1073 00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:34.159 and seeing those oppressive buildings, or even Gadica with the 1074 00:59:34.400 --> 00:59:38.000 way that the office building that Ethan Hark works at, 1075 00:59:38.079 --> 00:59:42.199 how that's very oppressive. And these apartment blocks just look 1076 00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:46.199 like these sentinels just looking over everything, and they're just like, 1077 00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:48.119 I want to get out of here. I'm not comfortable 1078 00:59:48.199 --> 00:59:48.960 with these buildings. 1079 00:59:49.119 --> 00:59:50.679 A lot of people have talked about the film in 1080 00:59:50.840 --> 00:59:55.639 relation to JG. Ballard because of that post apocalyptic feel 1081 00:59:56.119 --> 00:59:59.239 the architecture, and of course they're driving, and that relates 1082 00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:02.320 back to the an Akran story because Ballard was obsessed 1083 01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:05.480 with celebrity car crashes and that fed into the sort 1084 01:00:05.480 --> 01:00:09.719 of whole eroticism of crashes in Crash. But Chris says 1085 01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:13.079 he hadn't read Crash when he came up with rady Ones. 1086 01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:17.360 It really was like osmosis that the sort of Balladian 1087 01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:21.599 atmosphere was so powerful it leaked into Radio On without 1088 01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:25.000 him necessarily having gone out and researched it and brought 1089 01:00:25.039 --> 01:00:27.360 it in. Although, of course later on he becomes like 1090 01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:28.840 a massive Ballard fan. 1091 01:00:29.599 --> 01:00:32.519 I mean even more than High Rise or Crash. I 1092 01:00:32.599 --> 01:00:36.119 always love Concrete Island, just this whole idea, this guy 1093 01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:40.480 being stuck the freeway going all around this little area 1094 01:00:40.639 --> 01:00:43.239 that he crashes in and he just basically forms his 1095 01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:45.199 own civilization and this traffic. 1096 01:00:46.559 --> 01:00:50.480 Robert, the character of Robert, basically drives through that landscape. 1097 01:00:50.840 --> 01:00:54.400 That the landscape that Ballard set Concrete Island in is 1098 01:00:54.480 --> 01:00:56.800 pretty much featured in the film more or less. Yeah, 1099 01:00:57.159 --> 01:00:58.480 the other thing I was going to say is like 1100 01:00:58.559 --> 01:01:00.920 where this lies in terms of the history British cinema 1101 01:01:01.039 --> 01:01:05.199 as well, because that's another reason why the film slipped 1102 01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:07.159 down the back of the sofa, because it's more or 1103 01:01:07.239 --> 01:01:11.199 less unclassifiable in terms of British cinema. We've talked about 1104 01:01:11.199 --> 01:01:13.599 it in relation to European cinema and a little bit 1105 01:01:13.800 --> 01:01:18.039 with American road movies, particularly Monty Hellman, and that we 1106 01:01:18.079 --> 01:01:20.960 should mention Rudy Wurlitzer, who wrote the script for Two 1107 01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:23.679 Lane Blacktop as well, who I think Chris had an 1108 01:01:23.719 --> 01:01:29.440 affinity with particularly. But this film doesn't really fit into 1109 01:01:29.480 --> 01:01:33.480 any particular British tradition either, and it does come out again. 1110 01:01:33.559 --> 01:01:35.840 I talked about the politics of the late seventies, but 1111 01:01:35.960 --> 01:01:39.079 also the filmmaking of the late seventies. This was really, 1112 01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:43.639 frankly a dismal time for British cinema the late seventies. 1113 01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:46.000 If you look at what was being released in seventy 1114 01:01:46.039 --> 01:01:51.280 eight seventy nine, it's pretty dreadful. Hammer movies are over. 1115 01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:55.760 There's not that much interesting horror being made. The most 1116 01:01:55.840 --> 01:02:01.039 burgeoning genre is the British sex comedy. That was like 1117 01:02:01.159 --> 01:02:04.559 the backdrop of where Radio On was coming from. But 1118 01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:07.440 within a few years that would change, and by the 1119 01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:10.320 early eighties you would get like the rise of merchant 1120 01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:13.760 Ivory and that kind of heritage cinema, and then you'd 1121 01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:17.159 get the rise of like really interesting auteurs who were 1122 01:02:17.199 --> 01:02:20.039 being funded by Channel four, which was the fourth channel 1123 01:02:20.360 --> 01:02:23.880 that finally showed up after years of only three channels 1124 01:02:23.920 --> 01:02:26.840 and the whole narrow casting thing, and you get people 1125 01:02:26.880 --> 01:02:31.480 like Stephen Frears, and you get Derek Jarman, Peter green Away, 1126 01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:37.119 Alan Clark, varying different degrees of like high stylization and realism. 1127 01:02:37.559 --> 01:02:41.440 And Radio one kind of gets lost. And Chris did 1128 01:02:41.599 --> 01:02:45.840 make more films, although they weren't really that successful, kind 1129 01:02:45.880 --> 01:02:48.440 of gets lost because he doesn't really stay in the 1130 01:02:48.519 --> 01:02:50.960 game in the same way that those other filmmakers did, 1131 01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:54.599 and so Radio One did get forgotten. As well as 1132 01:02:54.639 --> 01:02:56.239 the other issue about the fact that it was really 1133 01:02:56.280 --> 01:02:59.119 hard to see partly because of the music. So it 1134 01:02:59.239 --> 01:03:01.639 was cursed by its own success in terms of you 1135 01:03:01.719 --> 01:03:04.360 got the music, but then that created this limit to 1136 01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:05.719 the availability of the film. 1137 01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:07.800 So let's go ahead and we're going to take a 1138 01:03:07.800 --> 01:03:09.440 break and we're going to play an interview with the 1139 01:03:09.519 --> 01:03:13.320 director of Radio On, Christopher Pettitt right after these brief messages. 1140 01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:18.239 Classically is a film Journey to the East, a curated 1141 01:03:18.280 --> 01:03:22.039 streaming service offering the best of contemporary and classic cinema 1142 01:03:22.199 --> 01:03:26.239 from Eastern Europe and Asia. Using coupon code Mike fifty, 1143 01:03:26.719 --> 01:03:29.519 you can get classicke membership for just five dollars fifty 1144 01:03:29.559 --> 01:03:33.119 cents a month, giving you the opportunity to sample award 1145 01:03:33.159 --> 01:03:39.480 winning films, documentaries, silent masterpieces, classic comedies and more. You 1146 01:03:39.519 --> 01:03:43.119 could also get access to the Classical Journal, exclusive cast 1147 01:03:43.199 --> 01:03:49.119 and director interviews, video essays, and watch lists. Visit Klassiki 1148 01:03:49.239 --> 01:03:52.199 dot online and sign up now to start your adventure 1149 01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:52.639 in film. 1150 01:04:04.599 --> 01:04:07.679 I would love to know more about you and your career, 1151 01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:11.760 in especially how you got into writing about film and filmmaking. 1152 01:04:12.360 --> 01:04:15.280 The short answer is, I think I used up most 1153 01:04:15.360 --> 01:04:19.400 of my professional luck when I was in my twenties. 1154 01:04:19.840 --> 01:04:24.440 I managed to get into the Timeout film department through 1155 01:04:24.519 --> 01:04:26.719 the back door because the first job I had in 1156 01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:31.800 London was selling advertising space over the telephone for Josephine Hart, 1157 01:04:32.119 --> 01:04:36.119 who went on to write Damage and various other books. 1158 01:04:36.159 --> 01:04:39.840 And she was a strange woman who wore purple tracksuits 1159 01:04:39.880 --> 01:04:42.280 in those days, although laters she dressed entirely in black, 1160 01:04:43.039 --> 01:04:49.039 and she recruited a completely unsuitable bunch of people to 1161 01:04:49.159 --> 01:04:53.360 sell advertising space over the telephone. We were all quite artistic, 1162 01:04:54.199 --> 01:04:55.800 and through that I managed to get a job in 1163 01:04:55.920 --> 01:04:59.639 time Out selling advertising, which was not a job that 1164 01:04:59.800 --> 01:05:05.599 was particularly sought after. And in those days Time Out, 1165 01:05:05.719 --> 01:05:07.599 which was a kind of eight a Z guide of 1166 01:05:07.679 --> 01:05:08.559 what to do in London. 1167 01:05:09.079 --> 01:05:10.239 It was a good magazine. 1168 01:05:10.239 --> 01:05:12.079 I mean it was really good, and the film department 1169 01:05:12.199 --> 01:05:14.719 was very good and I managed to get the job 1170 01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:18.679 when Verena, who was the first editor, left, and so 1171 01:05:18.760 --> 01:05:23.199 I was very lucky. Then about four years later, towards 1172 01:05:23.239 --> 01:05:25.280 the end of the seventies, I decided that I was 1173 01:05:25.400 --> 01:05:29.199 not a vocational film critic, although I enjoyed the job 1174 01:05:29.960 --> 01:05:33.079 in a way taught me how to write because Timeout 1175 01:05:33.119 --> 01:05:36.039 was always very tight for space. Someone very smart invented 1176 01:05:36.079 --> 01:05:38.599 something called the caption review, which is basically a review 1177 01:05:38.679 --> 01:05:41.400 of the film under a photograph of the film. You 1178 01:05:41.480 --> 01:05:44.239 were limited to one hundred and fifty words, so you 1179 01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:48.119 had to learn to organize your material pretty quickly, and 1180 01:05:48.960 --> 01:05:52.239 I always try to do it without giving away. Most 1181 01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:55.159 film criticism they tell the story that the story of 1182 01:05:55.199 --> 01:05:57.880 a man or a woman who dardi dar and they 1183 01:05:57.960 --> 01:06:02.360 still do it. And I thought, especially after reading Manny Farber, 1184 01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:05.199 I thought, there are more interesting ways of doing this. 1185 01:06:05.760 --> 01:06:07.440 I learned quite a lot from that. And then at 1186 01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:10.199 the end of the seventies, as I said, I wasn't 1187 01:06:10.239 --> 01:06:13.840 really a vocational film critic. There weren't many opportunities to 1188 01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:17.159 carry on unless you joined something like the British Film 1189 01:06:17.239 --> 01:06:21.119 Institute or got a job in Fleet Street, which was unlikely. 1190 01:06:21.960 --> 01:06:25.599 So I turned my attention to thinking is it possible 1191 01:06:25.639 --> 01:06:29.400 to make movies not necessarily direct them? So I wrote 1192 01:06:29.519 --> 01:06:33.360 Radio On as a script, which I hoped would lead 1193 01:06:33.440 --> 01:06:37.039 to more work as a screenwriter. But talking about luck 1194 01:06:37.119 --> 01:06:40.760 in one's twenties, I fell into the position where the 1195 01:06:40.880 --> 01:06:42.159 film was taken seriously. 1196 01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:43.199 The project was. 1197 01:06:43.199 --> 01:06:47.360 Taken seriously by the British Film Institute Production Board, which 1198 01:06:47.400 --> 01:06:51.599 existed to fund novice filmmakers for small amounts of money, 1199 01:06:52.280 --> 01:06:55.559 but they were looking for co productions and I thought, 1200 01:06:55.639 --> 01:06:57.880 if I can bring something to the table, then they're 1201 01:06:57.920 --> 01:06:59.079 going to take it more seriously. 1202 01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:00.320 Away. 1203 01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:05.239 Vin Vendors was the obvious choice because he made these 1204 01:07:05.440 --> 01:07:09.119 early films I thought were very interesting as almost documentary 1205 01:07:09.440 --> 01:07:13.840 itineries of locations and landscape. I was interviewing him for 1206 01:07:13.960 --> 01:07:17.039 time Out and got to the point where I could say, oh, look, 1207 01:07:17.079 --> 01:07:20.800 I've written this script Dardi dar. He said do you 1208 01:07:20.880 --> 01:07:22.760 have a title? And I said we're like, yes, radio 1209 01:07:22.840 --> 01:07:24.519 on and he said, oh, that's a good title. 1210 01:07:25.239 --> 01:07:26.159 So I thought, here we go. 1211 01:07:27.079 --> 01:07:29.280 And then much later there was a conversation between Peter 1212 01:07:29.400 --> 01:07:33.280 Sainsbury and about who should direct the film. Because I 1213 01:07:33.400 --> 01:07:37.079 was not putting myself forward in the end, they came 1214 01:07:37.159 --> 01:07:39.719 to me and said we think you should direct it, 1215 01:07:39.760 --> 01:07:40.559 and I said, I don't know. 1216 01:07:40.880 --> 01:07:41.760 I'm not sure about that. 1217 01:07:42.519 --> 01:07:46.079 But then I thought, or it'll probably be a huge mess, 1218 01:07:46.360 --> 01:07:50.519 but one's got to put one's head on the block sometimes, So. 1219 01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:51.440 That was that. 1220 01:07:51.679 --> 01:07:52.559 That's how it happened. 1221 01:07:53.280 --> 01:07:55.119 Before you got the jab a time out, you hadn't 1222 01:07:55.119 --> 01:07:56.199 written about film at all. 1223 01:07:57.000 --> 01:07:59.760 A little bit there there was a Bristol magazine called Event, 1224 01:08:00.519 --> 01:08:02.960 which is a little bit like Time Out, and I'd 1225 01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:04.320 done a few reviews for them. 1226 01:08:05.079 --> 01:08:06.840 I'd grown up with films, but. 1227 01:08:07.079 --> 01:08:09.320 When I left university I had no idea what I 1228 01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:13.679 would do. There was no plan, no conventional ambition, and 1229 01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:16.720 I thought, it's a matter of drifting through life up 1230 01:08:16.800 --> 01:08:20.079 to a point where you can see whether or not 1231 01:08:20.159 --> 01:08:22.920 there are various options, and I think drift has been 1232 01:08:23.840 --> 01:08:27.800 a kind of characteristic feature ever since. It's not a 1233 01:08:27.880 --> 01:08:29.000 career that makes any sense. 1234 01:08:29.840 --> 01:08:32.319 I look back at films of the late sixties and 1235 01:08:32.399 --> 01:08:36.079 seventies with great admiration. How was it for you to 1236 01:08:36.279 --> 01:08:38.680 be looking at and writing about all these films? 1237 01:08:39.399 --> 01:08:40.439 We took it for granted. 1238 01:08:41.239 --> 01:08:43.560 They were there, and London was a very good city 1239 01:08:43.760 --> 01:08:48.920 for watching movies. There were conventional art houses like the Academy, 1240 01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:53.039 which showed mainly East European films of a certain kind. 1241 01:08:53.119 --> 01:08:56.479 And then David and Barbara Stone, two Americans, turned up 1242 01:08:57.239 --> 01:09:01.359 and opened the Gates Cinema, and their first programming was 1243 01:09:01.520 --> 01:09:05.520 basically a job lot of new German cinema which arrived 1244 01:09:05.600 --> 01:09:09.279 in London Inner Lump. So we got Fastender hertzeb vendors 1245 01:09:09.399 --> 01:09:12.399 and all the rest. Within a very sort of concentrated 1246 01:09:12.479 --> 01:09:15.880 period of time, there were good B movies being shown, 1247 01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:19.720 exploitation picks, and then there was the electric cinema, which 1248 01:09:19.800 --> 01:09:23.600 was a very good repertory cinema. We were spoiled for choice, 1249 01:09:23.920 --> 01:09:27.359 and as you say, it was a period of new 1250 01:09:27.479 --> 01:09:30.840 Hollywood as well, so you had what a conventionally called 1251 01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:35.439 the movie brats coming through. And so, for instance, Scorsese, 1252 01:09:35.600 --> 01:09:39.039 when he was first in London, burned us up because 1253 01:09:39.159 --> 01:09:43.399 Verena had given him the first good review he'd. 1254 01:09:43.279 --> 01:09:44.840 Ever had for Boxcar Bertha. 1255 01:09:45.560 --> 01:09:48.760 And in fact, then later on showed us Mean Streets, 1256 01:09:49.319 --> 01:09:51.800 which was an obscure film in those days, it had 1257 01:09:51.920 --> 01:09:56.159 no following at all, and he said, he asked me 1258 01:09:56.199 --> 01:09:58.159 what I thought of it after that, Yeah, it's pretty good. 1259 01:09:58.199 --> 01:09:59.680 It's not as good as Boxcar Bertha. 1260 01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:02.119 So he had the grace to laugh. 1261 01:10:03.000 --> 01:10:06.039 And Mean Streets there was a guy called Mike Kaplan 1262 01:10:06.039 --> 01:10:07.640 who was an American who had the rights to it, 1263 01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:10.600 and he was always showing it and we were always 1264 01:10:10.680 --> 01:10:14.560 plugging it. But it didn't It barely registered on any 1265 01:10:14.680 --> 01:10:17.279 kind of cult level. And in fact, the last time 1266 01:10:17.319 --> 01:10:20.560 I saw Scorsese he very briefly. I was able to 1267 01:10:20.600 --> 01:10:24.640 say to him, did he know that the then British 1268 01:10:24.720 --> 01:10:28.479 Prime Minister David Cameron had apparently proposed to his wife 1269 01:10:29.359 --> 01:10:32.720 while mean streets? And Marty and I laughed and we said, yeah, 1270 01:10:32.720 --> 01:10:35.880 but which scene. It's not an obvious film to choose 1271 01:10:35.920 --> 01:10:39.159 to propose marriage during anyway, So yes it was. And 1272 01:10:39.399 --> 01:10:41.520 the other thing about reviewing films is that I was 1273 01:10:41.680 --> 01:10:44.920 running a section with a team of reviewers, so I 1274 01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:47.840 could pick and choose. I didn't have to cover the 1275 01:10:47.880 --> 01:10:50.520 whole waterfront as they do today, and we did it 1276 01:10:50.600 --> 01:10:54.000 on the principle of we were quite generous in that 1277 01:10:54.720 --> 01:10:56.720 on the whole the person who liked the film most 1278 01:10:56.840 --> 01:10:57.600 got to review it. 1279 01:10:58.119 --> 01:10:59.960 So there was a sense of enthusiasm. 1280 01:11:00.199 --> 01:11:04.079 And I do remember struggling at one point to try 1281 01:11:04.119 --> 01:11:06.600 and find somebody to review an Alan Rudolph film. 1282 01:11:06.760 --> 01:11:10.039 But so, where did the idea of paraibioan come from? 1283 01:11:10.760 --> 01:11:11.319 The question? 1284 01:11:12.199 --> 01:11:16.159 I think I was starting to think about what you 1285 01:11:16.239 --> 01:11:19.199 could do and how you could make a film, especially 1286 01:11:19.199 --> 01:11:21.720 if you hadn't written one and didn't have any real 1287 01:11:21.800 --> 01:11:25.840 interest in a conventional script. I wasn't interested in relationships, 1288 01:11:26.399 --> 01:11:30.119 I wasn't interested in the British tradition of realism. I 1289 01:11:30.239 --> 01:11:32.640 think I took quite a lot of inspiration from vendors 1290 01:11:32.680 --> 01:11:35.680 and the idea of the journey. I was impressed by 1291 01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:39.159 get Carter, which went from London to Newcastle, so I 1292 01:11:39.239 --> 01:11:42.039 started thinking of a line A to B. And I'd 1293 01:11:42.079 --> 01:11:44.760 also worked out, because I used to drive around a 1294 01:11:44.840 --> 01:11:48.199 lot and play music in the car, that the cinema 1295 01:11:48.279 --> 01:11:51.760 windscreen was a form of forward projection in the way 1296 01:11:51.800 --> 01:11:54.119 that cinema is. So I thought, you've got a self 1297 01:11:54.159 --> 01:11:56.960 contained space, you don't have that many options in terms 1298 01:11:57.000 --> 01:11:59.920 of how you can film it, and you're not sitting 1299 01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:03.439 filming a dinner party for eighteen with eye line going in. 1300 01:12:04.199 --> 01:12:07.760 I thought it's technically not difficult. So I worked out 1301 01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:09.920 what my parameters were. And the other thing was I thought, 1302 01:12:10.199 --> 01:12:15.359 no one really does music contemporary music well in films. 1303 01:12:16.119 --> 01:12:17.279 I like Fassbender. 1304 01:12:17.800 --> 01:12:20.560 I think it was The Bitter Tears of petrovon Kant 1305 01:12:20.640 --> 01:12:24.199 where he plays the Walker Brothers singing in my room 1306 01:12:25.039 --> 01:12:27.239 and he's got a secretary in the background chattering away 1307 01:12:27.319 --> 01:12:31.199 on a typewriter and people talking, and the record is 1308 01:12:31.560 --> 01:12:33.960 actually on a record player being played, And I thought, 1309 01:12:34.079 --> 01:12:36.800 that's how it should be done, and then Vendors was 1310 01:12:37.119 --> 01:12:39.359 certainly he would stop the movie to play something on 1311 01:12:39.439 --> 01:12:42.680 a jukebox, which I think he did in Goalkeeper fear 1312 01:12:42.680 --> 01:12:45.800 of the Penalty. But I thought the music ought to 1313 01:12:45.920 --> 01:12:50.279 be always traced a source rather than laid over. And 1314 01:12:50.840 --> 01:12:53.399 in those days, as I said, there was very little 1315 01:12:54.520 --> 01:12:56.359 use of the kind of music that we were listening 1316 01:12:56.439 --> 01:13:00.319 to turning up in films, partly because the reproduction are 1317 01:13:00.319 --> 01:13:03.279 incredibly expensive and you had to deal with something called 1318 01:13:03.319 --> 01:13:08.039 the Mechanical Copyright Protection Society and you ended up paying 1319 01:13:08.079 --> 01:13:10.920 through the nose. So I eventually I got an idea 1320 01:13:11.000 --> 01:13:14.920 for a soundtrack. It was the Bowie version of Heroes, 1321 01:13:15.000 --> 01:13:17.880 where he sings part of it in this rather strange 1322 01:13:17.960 --> 01:13:20.880 German accent. I thought that's obvious given that the film 1323 01:13:21.000 --> 01:13:22.920 was by then an Anglo. 1324 01:13:22.680 --> 01:13:23.600 German co production. 1325 01:13:24.399 --> 01:13:28.560 Craftwork was obvious because I thought their music was incredibly cinematic. 1326 01:13:29.520 --> 01:13:32.359 And for the rest, we did a deal with Stiff 1327 01:13:32.479 --> 01:13:37.279 Records because I wanted Reckless Eric's Whole Wide World, and 1328 01:13:37.399 --> 01:13:39.439 we went and saw I think it was Dave Robinson, 1329 01:13:39.600 --> 01:13:41.399 and he said, do you want to look through the catalog? 1330 01:13:42.079 --> 01:13:44.640 Because it was obviously a good promotion for him, and 1331 01:13:44.680 --> 01:13:46.800 he said, I quite like it if you took Lena Lovitch, 1332 01:13:46.880 --> 01:13:49.479 because I think she was breaking at the time. So 1333 01:13:49.720 --> 01:13:55.159 the soundtrack really assemble itself, and there was only the 1334 01:13:55.279 --> 01:13:58.239 problem of not having the money to buy it. It's 1335 01:13:58.239 --> 01:14:01.079 an old story, but I I had left time out 1336 01:14:01.119 --> 01:14:06.840 by then, and I became the world's worst music journalist 1337 01:14:07.159 --> 01:14:11.479 writing for Melody Maker simply in order to meet craft Work. 1338 01:14:12.279 --> 01:14:13.640 So I met craft Work. 1339 01:14:13.720 --> 01:14:16.039 I interviewed them, and then at the end I said, oh, 1340 01:14:16.159 --> 01:14:18.239 by the way, and I had the script by then 1341 01:14:18.359 --> 01:14:23.960 in a Manila folder. Ralph Hutter took the folder and said, oh, 1342 01:14:24.479 --> 01:14:27.760 is it called the Digby Wallet, which was the name 1343 01:14:27.880 --> 01:14:32.600 of the actual folder, So thereafter it was always referred 1344 01:14:32.600 --> 01:14:36.319 to as the Digby Wallet. They were approachable and you 1345 01:14:36.399 --> 01:14:38.359 could more or less say to them, can you give 1346 01:14:38.439 --> 01:14:40.600 us each track for fifty quid? 1347 01:14:41.359 --> 01:14:45.279 And they did and Bowie. It turned out that the. 1348 01:14:45.359 --> 01:14:48.800 Producer of Radio and Keith Griffiths, had started off doing 1349 01:14:48.920 --> 01:14:53.159 light shows for Hendrix and even for a while managed 1350 01:14:53.920 --> 01:14:57.279 one of Bowie's groups when he was still David Jones. 1351 01:14:58.039 --> 01:15:00.760 We were able to contact these people if you go 1352 01:15:00.880 --> 01:15:03.760 back twelve years when we were making a film called Content. 1353 01:15:03.960 --> 01:15:07.039 I tried to get in touch with Craftwork again, thinking 1354 01:15:07.199 --> 01:15:10.079 perhaps we can do a similar deal. You can't even 1355 01:15:10.119 --> 01:15:14.920 get close, ring fenced by lawyers and you just give up. 1356 01:15:15.039 --> 01:15:17.000 And the same now with the film that we're doing. Now, 1357 01:15:17.840 --> 01:15:19.800 we wanted to use Dylan's Titanic. 1358 01:15:20.680 --> 01:15:22.720 And in the past, what you. 1359 01:15:22.880 --> 01:15:27.079 Did was you went to Anthony Wall, who ran BBC 1360 01:15:27.279 --> 01:15:32.640 Arena for years and years, and Anthony knows that Jeff 1361 01:15:32.720 --> 01:15:38.359 Rosen anyway, he knows Dylan's manager. And what you did 1362 01:15:38.560 --> 01:15:41.439 was you went via him and then word would come 1363 01:15:41.560 --> 01:15:44.800 back or not come back. Several months later, Bob says 1364 01:15:44.840 --> 01:15:49.800 it's okay. Now, unfortunately Bob can't say it's okay anymore. 1365 01:15:49.479 --> 01:15:52.359 Because he sold his music rights to I think it's Sony. 1366 01:15:53.039 --> 01:15:55.079 You're dealing with Sony, and Sony come back. He said, 1367 01:15:55.079 --> 01:15:56.319 it's going to cost you twenty. 1368 01:15:56.159 --> 01:16:00.479 Five brand at least, and you think can't do it anyway, 1369 01:16:01.159 --> 01:16:01.960 that's the music. 1370 01:16:02.760 --> 01:16:06.159 Then once you're on the hook for directing radio or 1371 01:16:06.159 --> 01:16:07.720 an how do you put together your crew? 1372 01:16:08.479 --> 01:16:11.920 Well, Radion was dead easy because sayings at the BFI 1373 01:16:12.199 --> 01:16:19.399 and VIM decided I needed decent support and so originally 1374 01:16:19.560 --> 01:16:24.560 Robbie Muller was Vendor's main dop. I wanted him to 1375 01:16:24.640 --> 01:16:27.279 do it, but he couldn't. I said to Vim, who's 1376 01:16:27.399 --> 01:16:34.039 Robby's assistant, not necessarily knowing that assistants didn't always make 1377 01:16:34.159 --> 01:16:40.600 great dops. Vendor said, it's Martin Schaeffer, and he also 1378 01:16:40.680 --> 01:16:44.319 threw in Martin Muller, who was the sound recorders. 1379 01:16:44.479 --> 01:16:46.800 So I was pretty well set up. 1380 01:16:47.359 --> 01:16:52.560 And because Radio On was exempt from union regulations, it 1381 01:16:52.680 --> 01:16:55.039 was a crew of twelve. You didn't need walkie talkie, 1382 01:16:55.079 --> 01:16:57.960 so you knew everyone, and I thought it was always 1383 01:16:58.000 --> 01:16:59.960 going to be like that, But then when I got 1384 01:17:00.199 --> 01:17:03.760 too unsuitable job for a woman, I turned up a 1385 01:17:03.800 --> 01:17:07.039 one location and there were seventy cars, and then you thought, 1386 01:17:07.079 --> 01:17:09.039 what are half these people doing. It was a film 1387 01:17:09.079 --> 01:17:11.880 with a complicated pre production, so it ended up with 1388 01:17:11.960 --> 01:17:14.880 five producers, and we all know there are only four 1389 01:17:14.960 --> 01:17:18.159 corners in the room, and there'd be one producer standing 1390 01:17:18.520 --> 01:17:20.239 in each corner, and then there'd be another one left 1391 01:17:20.279 --> 01:17:23.720 in the middle. And was a shock after the simplicity 1392 01:17:23.720 --> 01:17:25.880 of Radioil and Radio was one of those films which 1393 01:17:26.640 --> 01:17:27.680 had its own momentum. 1394 01:17:28.279 --> 01:17:30.079 Some people say it was ignored. 1395 01:17:29.720 --> 01:17:30.199 At the time. 1396 01:17:30.640 --> 01:17:33.399 It wasn't really you could argue that it was not 1397 01:17:33.520 --> 01:17:37.760 a big enough hit, but it traveled very well to 1398 01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:39.359 film festivals around the world. 1399 01:17:39.439 --> 01:17:42.279 It showed a can and there was. 1400 01:17:42.279 --> 01:17:44.680 A certain amount of heat around it, but in the 1401 01:17:44.760 --> 01:17:49.119 context the climate in the UK cinema at the time, 1402 01:17:49.560 --> 01:17:52.439 it didn't really open any doors. Nobody was showing much 1403 01:17:52.520 --> 01:17:54.960 interest In the second I went back to the BFI 1404 01:17:55.439 --> 01:17:57.199 to do another road movie, which in fact would have 1405 01:17:57.239 --> 01:17:59.319 been in color and about two women making a journey 1406 01:17:59.399 --> 01:18:03.079 from London to Scotland, and I didn't get anywhere with them. 1407 01:18:03.119 --> 01:18:04.880 They more or less said that you've had your chance, 1408 01:18:05.680 --> 01:18:08.399 so there wasn't really anywhere else to go. At the time, 1409 01:18:08.640 --> 01:18:11.319 I wouldn't have minded, but it was slightly past the. 1410 01:18:11.720 --> 01:18:12.399 Cell by date. 1411 01:18:12.840 --> 01:18:15.760 I would have been quite happy with a career directing 1412 01:18:16.279 --> 01:18:19.920 hommer horror films, but they weren't available. So in the 1413 01:18:20.119 --> 01:18:24.279 end I managed, through Don Boyd, a producer who is 1414 01:18:24.319 --> 01:18:29.520 running about the only setup that would contemplate people like 1415 01:18:29.680 --> 01:18:34.359 me and Derek Jarman, we managed to get unsuitable job 1416 01:18:34.479 --> 01:18:35.880 eventually off the ground. 1417 01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:39.960 How do you balance writing novels and making films? 1418 01:18:40.720 --> 01:18:42.720 I see them as part of the same process. 1419 01:18:43.119 --> 01:18:47.000 I wrote My first one, Robinson, was published in nineteen 1420 01:18:47.279 --> 01:18:51.159 ninety three, and I wrote it simply because I wasn't 1421 01:18:51.199 --> 01:18:54.239 in a position where anyone would finance any of my 1422 01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:55.600 film projects. 1423 01:18:56.279 --> 01:18:57.560 I've never written a novel before. 1424 01:18:57.560 --> 01:18:58.439 I don't know how to do this. 1425 01:18:59.239 --> 01:19:02.319 There's a lot of no I didn't feel any kind 1426 01:19:02.359 --> 01:19:05.640 of connection to English literature. I'd read a lot of 1427 01:19:05.720 --> 01:19:08.359 thrillers when I was growing up from a very early age, 1428 01:19:08.560 --> 01:19:12.039 and I like genre. And I thought with Robinson, I 1429 01:19:12.119 --> 01:19:14.560 don't know enough about writing novels, but if I can 1430 01:19:14.600 --> 01:19:18.279 write it as a prose film, then I don't have 1431 01:19:18.399 --> 01:19:21.600 to pretend to myself that I'm being a novelist. 1432 01:19:22.399 --> 01:19:26.159 So I did that, and as things went on, the 1433 01:19:26.239 --> 01:19:27.079 books changed. 1434 01:19:27.399 --> 01:19:30.239 Robinson wasn't enough of the success, rather like Radio On 1435 01:19:30.479 --> 01:19:35.439 to encourage Radio On two or Robinson too, so I 1436 01:19:35.560 --> 01:19:37.800 was left in the same kind of position, thinking what 1437 01:19:37.920 --> 01:19:41.520 are my options? And I thought with the second book, 1438 01:19:41.560 --> 01:19:43.199 I have to be more commercial. So I wrote The 1439 01:19:43.199 --> 01:19:47.880 Psalm Killer, which was about serial murder in Northern Ireland, 1440 01:19:48.199 --> 01:19:52.399 and looking back, I'm amazed at the breadth and quality 1441 01:19:52.479 --> 01:19:56.760 of research, given that there was no Internet, so you know, 1442 01:19:56.880 --> 01:19:58.199 where on earth did I get it from? 1443 01:19:58.279 --> 01:19:58.760 But I did. 1444 01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:02.439 The book surprised me because I didn't think I had 1445 01:20:02.479 --> 01:20:05.560 it in me. And it is a complex sort of 1446 01:20:05.640 --> 01:20:09.720 beyond noir, which has been praised by the likes of 1447 01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:13.800 David Peace and Alan Moore, so its reputation is quite good. 1448 01:20:13.880 --> 01:20:16.279 But I think when it came to novels, apart from 1449 01:20:16.399 --> 01:20:18.640 Robinson and another one called The Hard Shoulder which was 1450 01:20:19.119 --> 01:20:23.079 from a London film script, which are both very simple stories, 1451 01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:27.479 the novels tend to be attracted to the other half 1452 01:20:27.560 --> 01:20:30.399 of me, which is the kind of the conspiratorial world. 1453 01:20:31.159 --> 01:20:34.239 In the last novels I've written, I've normally been trying 1454 01:20:34.279 --> 01:20:37.239 to solve a problem that interests me, and I think 1455 01:20:37.239 --> 01:20:40.439 it's worth researching for the human pool. I think I 1456 01:20:40.560 --> 01:20:43.039 was staying at a hotel in Switzerland and I looked 1457 01:20:43.039 --> 01:20:45.000 out of the window and I thought money in World 1458 01:20:45.039 --> 01:20:48.600 War two in Switzerland, and I thought, okay, that whole 1459 01:20:49.039 --> 01:20:53.640 the ambiguity of neutrality, that whole kind of Eric Hambler 1460 01:20:53.760 --> 01:20:54.840 geopolitical world. 1461 01:20:55.640 --> 01:20:58.239 So that was how that came about. 1462 01:20:58.319 --> 01:21:01.199 And I've had to write books really now for the 1463 01:21:01.319 --> 01:21:05.680 last ten twelve twelve years because the films are pretty 1464 01:21:05.760 --> 01:21:09.359 much dried up and I'm lucky in that I'm still 1465 01:21:09.399 --> 01:21:11.880 published because no one reads the books. 1466 01:21:12.439 --> 01:21:15.039 They're hardly reviewed. I think, why do they carry on 1467 01:21:15.159 --> 01:21:17.920 paying me? But they do modestly. 1468 01:21:18.399 --> 01:21:19.119 But I don't know why. 1469 01:21:19.640 --> 01:21:22.640 Apart from going back to right at the beginning, I 1470 01:21:22.720 --> 01:21:25.119 think any career is conditioned by a huge amount of luck. 1471 01:21:27.640 --> 01:21:31.199 My position in terms of my publishing hasn't had much luck, 1472 01:21:31.239 --> 01:21:33.439 whereas if you look at I don't know, with Human America, 1473 01:21:34.119 --> 01:21:35.720 somebody like Mick Heron. 1474 01:21:35.680 --> 01:21:37.319 Who wrote Slow Horses. 1475 01:21:38.159 --> 01:21:41.159 When that book was first published, it did nothing. And 1476 01:21:41.279 --> 01:21:44.359 it wasn't until somebody who made a habit of picking 1477 01:21:44.479 --> 01:21:47.319 up books that hadn't done anything which he thought he 1478 01:21:47.399 --> 01:21:51.359 could make something of and republish, that he started to 1479 01:21:51.439 --> 01:21:54.359 take off. And now, of course you can't move for 1480 01:21:54.520 --> 01:21:55.359 Mick Heron. 1481 01:21:55.880 --> 01:21:57.479 What was it like for you the first time we 1482 01:21:57.560 --> 01:22:00.000 had to interact with actors and director people. 1483 01:22:00.880 --> 01:22:03.680 I was always very embarrassed by things like rehearsal or 1484 01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:07.880 actors saying lines or yellow I was never particularly comfortable 1485 01:22:07.920 --> 01:22:11.039 around actor until I got to Will Patten in Chinese Boxes, 1486 01:22:11.640 --> 01:22:15.880 who is quite methodic, quite method like, and very physical, 1487 01:22:16.600 --> 01:22:18.640 and I got him and I thought actually know how 1488 01:22:18.680 --> 01:22:22.039 to direct him and Gottfried Yan, who'd been in Fastment 1489 01:22:22.119 --> 01:22:22.560 of films. 1490 01:22:23.079 --> 01:22:24.920 I was also in Chinese Boxes and he. 1491 01:22:25.960 --> 01:22:28.840 I enjoyed working with him, partly because he got the 1492 01:22:28.960 --> 01:22:32.399 job without really speaking English. And when I went to 1493 01:22:32.479 --> 01:22:34.720 interview him, because my first choice for his part was 1494 01:22:34.760 --> 01:22:37.960 actually Klaus Leovich, who had been in Fastment of films 1495 01:22:38.239 --> 01:22:44.479 and that Boguard Nabokov film in which he played Bogard's double. Anyway, 1496 01:22:44.560 --> 01:22:47.239 Lewitch turned it down after having accepted it, and then 1497 01:22:47.479 --> 01:22:50.439 my producer said that as Gottfried. I wasn't sure, but 1498 01:22:50.520 --> 01:22:53.760 I went to meet him and very nice, very good face, 1499 01:22:54.039 --> 01:22:56.239 but he doesn't say much. His wife did all the talking, 1500 01:22:56.920 --> 01:22:59.880 I discovered afterwards, because it was because he didn't speak English, 1501 01:23:00.680 --> 01:23:03.960 so he learned his which I thought was heroic. He 1502 01:23:04.119 --> 01:23:07.680 learned his role phonetically. I kind of didn't really know 1503 01:23:07.960 --> 01:23:12.119 what I wanted for the leading man. I wanted a 1504 01:23:12.119 --> 01:23:17.319 blankness and also Beams is very funny, and I met 1505 01:23:17.359 --> 01:23:19.880 him and I thought it's too funny for this. I 1506 01:23:20.199 --> 01:23:23.520 did it, and Dad and eventually casting directors said, I 1507 01:23:23.600 --> 01:23:25.840 do think it's very good, and I think I showed 1508 01:23:25.920 --> 01:23:29.439 him a Robert Mitchell film and I said, just do that, 1509 01:23:30.479 --> 01:23:32.079 and I said, the thing he noticed about Mitcham as 1510 01:23:32.119 --> 01:23:35.319 he listens the acting is less to do with recital 1511 01:23:36.119 --> 01:23:37.159 and more to do with listening. 1512 01:23:37.279 --> 01:23:39.439 And Beams watched it and he did it. 1513 01:23:39.479 --> 01:23:42.359 And it wasn't really until years later when I looked 1514 01:23:42.359 --> 01:23:45.319 at the film again that I thought his performance was 1515 01:23:46.079 --> 01:23:49.479 really good, almost heroic in terms of being asked as 1516 01:23:49.479 --> 01:23:52.640 an actor to kind of reduce. You know, there are 1517 01:23:52.680 --> 01:23:55.479 other actors I could think of who were noted for 1518 01:23:55.600 --> 01:23:59.920 doing nothing. But there's a lot of signaling going on nevertheless, 1519 01:24:00.399 --> 01:24:02.439 and you have an interesting example when you get to 1520 01:24:02.680 --> 01:24:07.319 Jack Nicholson in when he's working for Kubrick or ANTONIONI. 1521 01:24:08.079 --> 01:24:10.039 He's like a man in a street jacket. You can 1522 01:24:10.199 --> 01:24:13.960 feel that he can't. But I thought Beams was very good. 1523 01:24:14.239 --> 01:24:18.840 But on the whole, my Forte was never really working 1524 01:24:18.920 --> 01:24:23.239 with actors, which is why I think after making all 1525 01:24:23.359 --> 01:24:27.800 feature films, yeah, I then drifted off into documentary and 1526 01:24:28.039 --> 01:24:32.279 then I fell in with the English writer Ian Sinclair 1527 01:24:32.600 --> 01:24:35.600 of Welsh Wid and we knocked off four or five 1528 01:24:35.680 --> 01:24:38.720 films together which were far more experimental and had no 1529 01:24:39.159 --> 01:24:42.239 There was no script, no actors, no call sheets, nothing. 1530 01:24:42.960 --> 01:24:46.520 They were all DIY and we did it ourselves. But 1531 01:24:46.840 --> 01:24:49.399 I don't know whether these films have ever even surfaced 1532 01:24:49.439 --> 01:24:52.600 in the United States, rather in the way that Radio 1533 01:24:52.680 --> 01:24:55.760 On is good. And you know, I never gave it 1534 01:24:55.840 --> 01:24:58.880 any shelf life, but if you look at it now, 1535 01:24:59.520 --> 01:25:02.159 I think, yeah, it's got its false but no one 1536 01:25:02.239 --> 01:25:05.520 else was doing it, so it stands as it stands 1537 01:25:05.560 --> 01:25:09.439 as a record, almost a documentary record at a particular time, 1538 01:25:09.960 --> 01:25:12.319 what people look like, how they dressed, and what music 1539 01:25:12.399 --> 01:25:15.520 they played, and the fact that England at the end 1540 01:25:15.520 --> 01:25:19.479 of the nineteen seventies did look like that. It looked 1541 01:25:19.600 --> 01:25:21.920 like something from the nineteen fifties. If you go back 1542 01:25:21.960 --> 01:25:25.199 to those black and white movies from the early fifties, 1543 01:25:25.720 --> 01:25:30.159 you think nothing had changed. And rather the same with 1544 01:25:30.239 --> 01:25:34.960 the synclet films. They were quite wild and stylistically completely 1545 01:25:35.079 --> 01:25:40.239 unlike the feature films, very well experimental in that we 1546 01:25:40.319 --> 01:25:44.079 could be because we decided to abandon cruise, partly because 1547 01:25:44.079 --> 01:25:47.399 we didn't have any money, and these sort of almost 1548 01:25:47.520 --> 01:25:49.520 toy like cameras had come on the market. There was 1549 01:25:49.560 --> 01:25:52.720 one called a Sharp High eight, which had a flat 1550 01:25:52.800 --> 01:25:55.840 screen and a sort of periscope thing and you could 1551 01:25:55.840 --> 01:26:00.359 press button. You've got a very nice, liquid, paintily image 1552 01:26:00.439 --> 01:26:02.600 with it, and even during the shot you could fiddle 1553 01:26:02.640 --> 01:26:05.079 around with the exposure by hitting a button so the 1554 01:26:05.159 --> 01:26:07.880 picture would bleach out. And the fact that it had 1555 01:26:07.920 --> 01:26:11.560 a screen rather than an eyepiece meant that I was 1556 01:26:11.720 --> 01:26:14.680 much more comfortable shooting it because I didn't have to 1557 01:26:14.760 --> 01:26:17.600 think of myself as a kind of dop and bother 1558 01:26:17.680 --> 01:26:19.119 about framing and all the rest of it. 1559 01:26:19.279 --> 01:26:21.880 And I again, I think if you go back and 1560 01:26:21.960 --> 01:26:22.439 look at these. 1561 01:26:22.359 --> 01:26:26.760 Films which are twenty five years old, again, no one. 1562 01:26:26.760 --> 01:26:27.279 Was doing it. 1563 01:26:28.800 --> 01:26:31.199 With having the Germans on your crew with Radio one. 1564 01:26:31.399 --> 01:26:33.319 Did you have to speak German? Do you know how 1565 01:26:33.359 --> 01:26:34.039 to speak German? 1566 01:26:34.800 --> 01:26:35.000 Yeah? 1567 01:26:35.399 --> 01:26:36.840 Enough to get in and out of a hotel. 1568 01:26:37.399 --> 01:26:41.640 You know, most Germans of that kind of slightly bohemian 1569 01:26:41.720 --> 01:26:46.479 generation spoke quite good English because they'd spend their childhoods 1570 01:26:46.560 --> 01:26:50.640 listening to AFN and American jazz and spent all their 1571 01:26:50.680 --> 01:26:54.640 times watching American movies. So Martin Muller had very good 1572 01:26:54.680 --> 01:26:58.840 English and Schaeffer not so much. But we could communicate 1573 01:26:59.039 --> 01:27:02.000 quite easily, So no, that's not a problem. And similarly 1574 01:27:02.119 --> 01:27:05.359 here where I am now, which is Rotterdam, Dutch is 1575 01:27:05.439 --> 01:27:09.159 a really hard language. But they all speak English, they 1576 01:27:09.239 --> 01:27:13.800 all really and they're not resentful of you not speaking Dutch. 1577 01:27:13.880 --> 01:27:15.319 In fact, they seem quite glad to be able to 1578 01:27:15.359 --> 01:27:18.359 practice their English. So there's even kids in the supermarket. 1579 01:27:18.600 --> 01:27:21.039 Are you going to saying really bad Dutch? Whereas which 1580 01:27:21.119 --> 01:27:24.000 isle is the rice in? And they just answer in 1581 01:27:24.079 --> 01:27:29.159 English rather Aisle six. So anyway, I digress. 1582 01:27:29.840 --> 01:27:32.840 Did you have all the locations picked up before you 1583 01:27:32.920 --> 01:27:35.000 started to shoot or did you find them as you're 1584 01:27:35.039 --> 01:27:38.079 going along? I was curious how dihy this production was. 1585 01:27:38.760 --> 01:27:39.920 No, we had the locations. 1586 01:27:40.479 --> 01:27:44.199 I had spent quite a lot of time driving the 1587 01:27:44.359 --> 01:27:48.720 route and looking around in Bristol, and I don't know 1588 01:27:48.840 --> 01:27:51.119 what point I discovered the quarry, but it was certainly 1589 01:27:51.159 --> 01:27:55.000 before we shot, and so when it came to pre 1590 01:27:55.119 --> 01:27:58.079 production we knew pretty. 1591 01:27:57.800 --> 01:27:59.199 Much where we were going to shoot. 1592 01:27:59.199 --> 01:28:04.319 I think there's one hub where Beams picks up the 1593 01:28:04.439 --> 01:28:07.960 soldier where they play reckless Eric, that is not on 1594 01:28:08.039 --> 01:28:09.800 the road. I don't know why it wasn't, but we 1595 01:28:09.960 --> 01:28:13.319 ended up somewhere in Essex filming that, but otherwise it 1596 01:28:13.439 --> 01:28:16.119 was pretty much a straight line. The apartment in London 1597 01:28:16.239 --> 01:28:20.600 belonged to the film distributor Andy Engel and it was 1598 01:28:20.680 --> 01:28:25.800 above his cinema in Camden, so it was all very easy. 1599 01:28:26.359 --> 01:28:28.159 I mean the first night of shooting I was in 1600 01:28:28.239 --> 01:28:30.680 the car at night outside the launderette, and it was 1601 01:28:31.000 --> 01:28:33.439 my local launderette. In fact, don't think it was my 1602 01:28:33.680 --> 01:28:36.720 washing that was in the machine. At the time, I 1603 01:28:36.800 --> 01:28:38.720 knew you might as well do two things at once. 1604 01:28:39.520 --> 01:28:42.439 Making filming, get your laundry done at the same time, and. 1605 01:28:42.560 --> 01:28:43.720 Which was the more important? 1606 01:28:44.359 --> 01:28:46.680 Can you tell me about radio or remix? How did 1607 01:28:46.760 --> 01:28:47.319 that come about? 1608 01:28:48.079 --> 01:28:49.159 That was very strange. 1609 01:28:49.359 --> 01:28:53.239 I was approached by Ben Slater and Gareth Evans, who 1610 01:28:53.279 --> 01:28:55.720 were studying I think at the time in Bristol, and 1611 01:28:56.199 --> 01:28:58.920 Gareth has gone on to become a fairly kind of 1612 01:28:59.000 --> 01:29:02.560 senior figure in there on the London cultural scene. They 1613 01:29:02.720 --> 01:29:06.760 came to us and said were we interested in making 1614 01:29:06.840 --> 01:29:09.760 a film where they thought they could get some money 1615 01:29:09.880 --> 01:29:13.720 from Harleck Television because it was about the dismantling of 1616 01:29:13.760 --> 01:29:18.640 the flyover that appears in radio on Going Past the 1617 01:29:18.800 --> 01:29:24.880 Hotel where David Beams and Lisa Kreutzer are. Hewah, okay, 1618 01:29:25.720 --> 01:29:26.920 let's see the color of your money. 1619 01:29:26.960 --> 01:29:27.479 And they did that. 1620 01:29:27.560 --> 01:29:29.840 They got a deal out of Harlic Television for us 1621 01:29:29.920 --> 01:29:33.640 to produce twenty five minutes. And I think I was moaning, 1622 01:29:33.680 --> 01:29:35.279 as usual, as saying to em, and I don't know 1623 01:29:35.319 --> 01:29:37.680 what to do really, that I don't want to just 1624 01:29:37.800 --> 01:29:42.159 film the flyover being taken down. And she said, you 1625 01:29:42.279 --> 01:29:44.680 get in the car and you drive, you go back 1626 01:29:44.720 --> 01:29:47.079 to the locations and it a and we did, and 1627 01:29:47.359 --> 01:29:49.359 I think we were still using the High eight rather 1628 01:29:49.439 --> 01:29:52.680 than MiniDV, and so she and I just took to 1629 01:29:52.760 --> 01:29:56.600 the road and we found I think nearly all the locations, 1630 01:29:56.840 --> 01:30:03.479 including the garage a Chippenham where Ding appears, and we 1631 01:30:03.640 --> 01:30:05.600 really struggled to find it, and I thought I knew 1632 01:30:05.640 --> 01:30:07.239 the location, and we turned up and it was a 1633 01:30:07.319 --> 01:30:09.199 housing estate and I thought we must have gone. 1634 01:30:10.000 --> 01:30:11.039 And then we did, by. 1635 01:30:11.000 --> 01:30:14.880 By chance, find it and the guy, I can't remember 1636 01:30:14.920 --> 01:30:18.039 whether it was him or his son, was turning into 1637 01:30:18.119 --> 01:30:21.680 a chandler's yard for boats, but the old petrol pumps 1638 01:30:21.720 --> 01:30:25.159 were still there around the corner, and it was I 1639 01:30:25.199 --> 01:30:27.199 don't know, I don't know what's there now, but so 1640 01:30:27.319 --> 01:30:30.439 we found that, and I think he or his father 1641 01:30:30.560 --> 01:30:32.279 was still complaining about the fact that we'd never sent 1642 01:30:32.399 --> 01:30:35.239 him a DVD of the film, and after that the 1643 01:30:35.319 --> 01:30:37.119 apartment was still there in Bristol. 1644 01:30:37.720 --> 01:30:38.560 I was expecting. 1645 01:30:38.600 --> 01:30:41.279 I thought, you know, it's going to be really shy now, 1646 01:30:41.359 --> 01:30:44.199 and yup it up. But it was exactly the same, 1647 01:30:44.600 --> 01:30:47.960 with the accept the tiles in the bathroom having been changed. 1648 01:30:48.680 --> 01:30:52.319 The big shot was this twenty years later. The big 1649 01:30:52.399 --> 01:30:57.880 shot was how much still existed unchanged, And the changes 1650 01:30:57.920 --> 01:31:01.520 were all kind of natural ones in that there's a 1651 01:31:01.640 --> 01:31:04.640 scene at the end in Bristol where a train passes 1652 01:31:04.680 --> 01:31:08.720 by in the background and David Beams walks over some wasteland. 1653 01:31:09.359 --> 01:31:12.279 When we went back, that's now a kind of planted park, 1654 01:31:13.039 --> 01:31:17.680 quite different, and the quarry had become a security item. 1655 01:31:17.960 --> 01:31:21.399 You couldn't get into it. In nineteen seventy nine you 1656 01:31:21.439 --> 01:31:23.520 could just drive in, which I think what I did, 1657 01:31:24.159 --> 01:31:26.079 But now it was all protected and we had to 1658 01:31:26.119 --> 01:31:29.399 get permission to get in Silbury Hill, which was just 1659 01:31:29.479 --> 01:31:32.920 a kind of big hummock when we were filming. That 1660 01:31:33.119 --> 01:31:35.279 was all overgrown with trees when we went back, So 1661 01:31:35.399 --> 01:31:38.119 that was the big difference, seeing sort of twenty years 1662 01:31:38.159 --> 01:31:43.119 of undergrowth and trees, and the rest was surprisingly preserved. 1663 01:31:43.920 --> 01:31:47.439 I don't know about now. The hotel I think is 1664 01:31:47.560 --> 01:31:50.880 still the Bristol One very run down. I'm surprised it 1665 01:31:50.920 --> 01:31:54.479 hasn't been demolished and the flyovers gone. But no, if 1666 01:31:54.520 --> 01:31:56.520 Garret can get some more money out of Harleck Television, 1667 01:31:56.560 --> 01:31:57.279 I'm quite happy to. 1668 01:31:58.119 --> 01:31:59.279 Revisit the revisit. 1669 01:32:00.000 --> 01:32:02.439 Did you say you're working on a new film, Yeah, 1670 01:32:02.600 --> 01:32:02.960 sort of. 1671 01:32:03.680 --> 01:32:08.319 Twelve years ago we made a film called Discontent, which 1672 01:32:08.399 --> 01:32:11.520 was an essay film really about the kind of state 1673 01:32:11.600 --> 01:32:15.000 of things in two thousand and nine. I think it 1674 01:32:15.199 --> 01:32:19.119 was I suppose in a way it connects to radio 1675 01:32:19.159 --> 01:32:21.079 on and radio on remix because it is a road 1676 01:32:21.199 --> 01:32:25.720 movie ambient and it played in Europe on German and 1677 01:32:25.760 --> 01:32:29.840 French TV, and it got shown in the UK on 1678 01:32:30.640 --> 01:32:34.399 More four and it had a very nice review from 1679 01:32:34.800 --> 01:32:39.239 Mark Fisher in Sight and Sound. So there was a 1680 01:32:40.039 --> 01:32:43.039 satisfactory piece of work. But after that there was no 1681 01:32:44.119 --> 01:32:46.520 as part of a more general problem which had been 1682 01:32:46.600 --> 01:32:49.880 going on since the turn of the century. Before that, 1683 01:32:50.000 --> 01:32:52.239 when Ian and I were doing films, there was still 1684 01:32:52.359 --> 01:32:55.359 quite a wide margin that you could get money for 1685 01:32:55.640 --> 01:32:58.640 experimental films, and you could get them I wouldn't say easily, 1686 01:32:58.840 --> 01:33:00.800 but you'd turn up and they would give you the 1687 01:33:00.880 --> 01:33:03.560 money if they wanted to do the project, and with 1688 01:33:03.760 --> 01:33:07.119 that money you could make the film. By twenty twelve, 1689 01:33:07.640 --> 01:33:11.920 you were having to look at different funding sources. You 1690 01:33:12.000 --> 01:33:13.800 could get a bit out of Serence, so you get 1691 01:33:13.840 --> 01:33:15.720 a bit out of Serence. It also meant that the 1692 01:33:15.760 --> 01:33:19.119 whole funding process became much more lengthy, and you'd think, 1693 01:33:19.439 --> 01:33:22.800 do I really want to spend six months financing this film? 1694 01:33:22.920 --> 01:33:25.520 By when you've forgotten what it's about. And I think 1695 01:33:25.520 --> 01:33:27.720 it explains why more and more I went back to 1696 01:33:28.399 --> 01:33:31.720 writing books because you don't have to have any meetings. 1697 01:33:32.000 --> 01:33:33.520 You just get Itit's a job. 1698 01:33:33.560 --> 01:33:34.199 You get on with it. 1699 01:33:34.880 --> 01:33:38.560 In twenty and fourteen, at the Oberhausant Film Festival, I 1700 01:33:38.800 --> 01:33:43.119 was asked by finished filmmaker called Mika Tanila, who is 1701 01:33:44.279 --> 01:33:47.880 doing a project which was really about post cinema, and 1702 01:33:48.039 --> 01:33:51.720 he was asking for contributions where you could do anything, 1703 01:33:51.760 --> 01:33:54.720 but you couldn't shore a film. And we met and 1704 01:33:54.800 --> 01:33:58.319 we got along and we've talked about doing various projects. 1705 01:33:59.159 --> 01:34:02.039 And one project I've had in the bottom drawer for 1706 01:34:02.159 --> 01:34:04.279 years was a film script I wrote in two thy 1707 01:34:04.399 --> 01:34:08.560 and twelve called The James Jesus Angleton Tapes, which was 1708 01:34:08.640 --> 01:34:13.319 based on the career of James Jesus Angleton, who was 1709 01:34:13.399 --> 01:34:18.199 head of CIA Country Intelligence between fifty four and nineteen 1710 01:34:18.279 --> 01:34:20.640 seventy four. And it was a kind of jazz riff 1711 01:34:20.800 --> 01:34:25.039 on this kind of Beckett perhaps last tape, kind of 1712 01:34:25.119 --> 01:34:29.279 final confession. And I wrote it for Christopher Walken and 1713 01:34:29.880 --> 01:34:31.640 I got the meeting. I got the phone meeting with 1714 01:34:31.760 --> 01:34:32.520 Christopher Walken. 1715 01:34:32.680 --> 01:34:34.399 After he read the script, he was up for it. 1716 01:34:35.119 --> 01:34:37.840 And I thought of Walkom because although he's not like 1717 01:34:38.000 --> 01:34:41.800 Angleton physically, there's always a sense when he's acting that 1718 01:34:41.840 --> 01:34:44.199 he's talking to himself. It's not that he doesn't interact 1719 01:34:44.239 --> 01:34:47.079 with other actors, but there's something about him which is 1720 01:34:47.199 --> 01:34:50.159 a variation on film acting. And he was keen to 1721 01:34:50.239 --> 01:34:52.199 do it. But as is the way of these things, 1722 01:34:52.840 --> 01:34:56.720 nothing ever happened. And at a certain point I rewrote 1723 01:34:56.760 --> 01:35:01.199 it as an audio play for taping a single actor, 1724 01:35:02.039 --> 01:35:04.520 and Mika was saying, did I want to do anything? 1725 01:35:04.840 --> 01:35:06.880 And I was struggling to come up with anything. 1726 01:35:07.560 --> 01:35:09.840 So in the and I said, maybe what if Angleton, 1727 01:35:10.000 --> 01:35:11.880 in the last years of his life, because he was 1728 01:35:11.920 --> 01:35:14.920 a world class fly fisherman, actually went to a kind 1729 01:35:14.920 --> 01:35:16.920 of hut in the remote north of Finland for the 1730 01:35:17.000 --> 01:35:20.159 fishing and the White Knights, and during that period recorded 1731 01:35:20.239 --> 01:35:26.039 these tapes and we never really got in here with 1732 01:35:26.279 --> 01:35:30.159 that idea. But the other thing that happened over the 1733 01:35:30.239 --> 01:35:33.319 last ten years is that my son Louis, who appears 1734 01:35:33.399 --> 01:35:35.279 in the film content as the kind of boy in 1735 01:35:35.319 --> 01:35:38.840 the back of the car, simply because we went on 1736 01:35:38.920 --> 01:35:41.560 a trip to America for a holiday. He was in 1737 01:35:41.600 --> 01:35:43.079 the back of the car and we actually used a 1738 01:35:43.159 --> 01:35:46.279 lot of the film footage of that trip for content. 1739 01:35:47.079 --> 01:35:48.640 We thought a bit about putting him in the film. 1740 01:35:48.640 --> 01:35:50.239 I thought, are we exploiting him? And I thought, no, no, 1741 01:35:50.359 --> 01:35:53.840 he's actually very good. And in twenty sixteen, at the 1742 01:35:53.880 --> 01:35:56.439 age of twelve, out of the blue, he developed some 1743 01:35:56.680 --> 01:36:01.079 complex epilepsy which he had for four years. And it's 1744 01:36:01.119 --> 01:36:05.479 an horrendous story of pharmaceutical drugs and what they do 1745 01:36:05.680 --> 01:36:08.079 to you and you know what you should and should 1746 01:36:08.119 --> 01:36:11.119 not be prescribed, and he had over a thousand sieges 1747 01:36:11.159 --> 01:36:12.880 and in the end his mother took him here to 1748 01:36:13.000 --> 01:36:17.359 Rotterdam the cannabis medication and it took another two years 1749 01:36:17.399 --> 01:36:19.560 to wean him off all the pharmaceuticals he was on. 1750 01:36:20.399 --> 01:36:25.359 But against all the odds, in twenty twenty he stopped 1751 01:36:25.399 --> 01:36:29.039 having seizures, and he went on. These caesars were weird 1752 01:36:29.159 --> 01:36:31.279 trips in a way. A lot of them, a lot 1753 01:36:31.319 --> 01:36:35.560 of a lot of the medical withdrawal involved terrifying hallucinations 1754 01:36:35.680 --> 01:36:39.279 like something out of Bosh really, which he turned into art. 1755 01:36:39.520 --> 01:36:42.800 And although he's always very talented at drawing, in an 1756 01:36:42.800 --> 01:36:45.239 odd way, this this terrible thing that happened to him, 1757 01:36:45.960 --> 01:36:49.079 gave him this kind of vision. So he's now, you know, 1758 01:36:49.119 --> 01:36:51.359 he's now a painter at artsicle and a very good 1759 01:36:51.399 --> 01:36:54.000 one too. And I talked to Meeker and I thought, 1760 01:36:54.079 --> 01:36:57.239 you know, is there a way of combining that material 1761 01:36:58.039 --> 01:37:01.319 because Lewis had appeared in con tent, so there's a 1762 01:37:01.439 --> 01:37:03.640 sense of And I said, I don't really want to 1763 01:37:03.640 --> 01:37:07.840 make another road movie because even twelve years ago, getting 1764 01:37:07.840 --> 01:37:11.640 in a car and driving thousands of miles, you never questioned, no, 1765 01:37:12.800 --> 01:37:14.760 you have to think. So I said, we'll get the 1766 01:37:14.840 --> 01:37:17.399 train and boat and we'll go to Finland and we 1767 01:37:17.520 --> 01:37:20.680 will we will find this location where Angleton stayed. 1768 01:37:20.840 --> 01:37:22.319 So there's the kind of reason for the trip. 1769 01:37:22.560 --> 01:37:27.079 And also it's an exploration of lewis case history and 1770 01:37:27.199 --> 01:37:30.439 how in a way his seizures are like a metaphor 1771 01:37:31.279 --> 01:37:33.520 for the world, which is it's in a state of convulsion. 1772 01:37:34.319 --> 01:37:37.039 So we have a bit of finished money. We're waiting 1773 01:37:37.119 --> 01:37:41.119 for more. They're taking their time, but in the spirit 1774 01:37:41.199 --> 01:37:43.800 of the project, which is very kind of Diy, we 1775 01:37:43.960 --> 01:37:47.640 just have to be patient. But we have Arte and Zida, 1776 01:37:48.319 --> 01:37:51.239 the German and French television channels have taken it. It's 1777 01:37:51.319 --> 01:37:53.960 not an entirely obscure project. But so that's what we've 1778 01:37:54.039 --> 01:37:54.399 been up to. 1779 01:37:55.039 --> 01:37:57.960 Sounds like a lot, especially the way they has got 1780 01:37:58.039 --> 01:37:58.640 to be difficult. 1781 01:37:59.319 --> 01:38:00.159 Oh, the jobs. 1782 01:38:00.159 --> 01:38:01.640 The whole of the last eight years has been about 1783 01:38:01.640 --> 01:38:04.880 waiting because in dealing with you this case, you're waiting 1784 01:38:04.920 --> 01:38:07.560 for the National Health Service, you're waiting for doctor's appointments, 1785 01:38:07.600 --> 01:38:11.520 you're waiting for the next seeson. And I did a 1786 01:38:11.600 --> 01:38:14.800 film years and years ago with Rudy Wurlitzer, who wrote 1787 01:38:15.000 --> 01:38:17.720 two Lame Blacktop and Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, 1788 01:38:18.399 --> 01:38:21.039 and he was talking about waiting in Hollywood, who said, 1789 01:38:21.039 --> 01:38:22.960 it's always about waiting. You know, you're waiting for this, 1790 01:38:23.079 --> 01:38:25.960 you're waiting for that, And I thought, yeah, it's still 1791 01:38:26.000 --> 01:38:26.359 the same. 1792 01:38:27.159 --> 01:38:29.039 Mister Pettett, thank you so much for your time. I 1793 01:38:29.199 --> 01:38:30.000 really appreciate this. 1794 01:38:30.920 --> 01:38:33.079 That's fine. I hope you even make something of it, 1795 01:38:33.159 --> 01:38:35.199 and I wasn't too delirious. 1796 01:39:18.079 --> 01:39:19.880 All right, we are back and we were talking about 1797 01:39:19.960 --> 01:39:23.319 Radio On and I mentioned this earlier, Ben, but I 1798 01:39:23.439 --> 01:39:25.720 want to know more about Radio on Remix. How did 1799 01:39:25.760 --> 01:39:28.119 that project come together? And can you told the audience 1800 01:39:28.119 --> 01:39:29.000 a little bit more about it? 1801 01:39:29.119 --> 01:39:29.239 Well? 1802 01:39:29.359 --> 01:39:32.840 Radio on Remix, which is I think twenty four minute 1803 01:39:33.239 --> 01:39:36.600 video essay that you will find, whether you want to 1804 01:39:36.760 --> 01:39:38.960 or not, on any Blu ray that you can get 1805 01:39:39.039 --> 01:39:41.079 hold of. Radio On and it was in the DVD 1806 01:39:41.239 --> 01:39:45.600 editions as well, is a piece that Chris created in 1807 01:39:45.920 --> 01:39:49.720 nineteen ninety eight, so almost twenty years after Radio On. 1808 01:39:50.079 --> 01:39:52.199 And this came directly out of what I was saying 1809 01:39:52.239 --> 01:39:54.600 earlier about how we met Chris and we interviewed him 1810 01:39:55.000 --> 01:39:57.359 and then we got him to come and screen Radio 1811 01:39:57.479 --> 01:40:00.720 On off a thirty five mel print in Bristol, and 1812 01:40:00.880 --> 01:40:04.199 then I don't know about six months later it occurred 1813 01:40:04.279 --> 01:40:07.119 to me, and I will turn full credit for the idea. 1814 01:40:07.640 --> 01:40:09.319 It occurred to me that it would be a great 1815 01:40:09.399 --> 01:40:13.079 idea since it was coming up to twenty years and 1816 01:40:13.239 --> 01:40:17.079 also we'd heard that fly over, the one where they 1817 01:40:17.159 --> 01:40:19.640 get the very iconic shot of the hotel was being 1818 01:40:20.439 --> 01:40:23.720 taken down, and it occurred to me, Okay, this is 1819 01:40:23.760 --> 01:40:26.800 a good time for Chris to come back and make it. 1820 01:40:27.079 --> 01:40:32.720 What I thought would be relatively conventional documentary about the 1821 01:40:32.840 --> 01:40:35.720 time passing and coming back and retracing the steps of 1822 01:40:35.760 --> 01:40:38.239 the film and telling stories about the making of the film. 1823 01:40:38.319 --> 01:40:40.840 Possibly I had a very different idea about what it 1824 01:40:40.880 --> 01:40:43.920 would be, and I told Gareth Evans, who was my 1825 01:40:44.039 --> 01:40:47.199 partner in crime at the time, and Gareth was like, yes, 1826 01:40:47.399 --> 01:40:50.319 that's great, we should definitely do that. So Gareth managed 1827 01:40:50.359 --> 01:40:55.079 to get us to pitch this to the local broadcaster 1828 01:40:55.239 --> 01:40:57.439 in the West Country, which was called HTV. It was 1829 01:40:57.520 --> 01:41:02.039 like a regional station, and there was a really lovely 1830 01:41:02.199 --> 01:41:05.319 lady there called Abigail Davis who was a commissioner, and 1831 01:41:05.680 --> 01:41:07.920 I can't believe, to be honest, she let me and 1832 01:41:08.079 --> 01:41:11.760 Gareth into her office. We showed up. We weren't students, 1833 01:41:11.800 --> 01:41:15.159 we graduated a few years before, but we looked like students. 1834 01:41:15.880 --> 01:41:20.760 We were just second and clothes hungover I'm sure hadn't shaved, 1835 01:41:21.239 --> 01:41:23.680 pretty much like how I am now. And we go 1836 01:41:23.920 --> 01:41:26.000 in and we say, okay, we know this filmmaker Chris 1837 01:41:26.039 --> 01:41:28.399 Pettitt and he's going to come back and he's going 1838 01:41:28.479 --> 01:41:30.600 to film things and it's going to be a documentary 1839 01:41:30.640 --> 01:41:33.359 and will you commission it? And she said okay. At 1840 01:41:33.399 --> 01:41:36.920 that point we pretty much handed it over to Chris 1841 01:41:37.000 --> 01:41:40.880 and Keith Griffiths's producer, and then they put together Ready 1842 01:41:40.920 --> 01:41:43.800 On Remix, although Gareth I have to give Gareth credit 1843 01:41:44.159 --> 01:41:46.720 because he did quite a lot of the work finding 1844 01:41:46.760 --> 01:41:50.640 the locations. So we'd actually bumped into a guy at 1845 01:41:50.680 --> 01:41:55.319 a party who said, I'm staying in the Paragon and 1846 01:41:55.479 --> 01:41:58.119 that was the row of houses where they filmed Radio 1847 01:41:58.159 --> 01:42:00.880 on and we said, okay, what number. Somehow we had 1848 01:42:00.960 --> 01:42:04.560 figured out what the flat was, maybe Chris had told 1849 01:42:04.640 --> 01:42:07.159 us and he was like, yeah, it's that one, and 1850 01:42:07.239 --> 01:42:09.199 we were like, oh, yeah, it's the Radio On Flat. 1851 01:42:09.319 --> 01:42:12.560 So we found that Gareth managed to get access to 1852 01:42:12.640 --> 01:42:15.399 the quarry, which is at the end of the film, 1853 01:42:15.720 --> 01:42:18.359 which was incredible because it was a very high security 1854 01:42:18.439 --> 01:42:21.399 area by that point with guards and all that stuff. 1855 01:42:22.560 --> 01:42:25.039 And we tracked down the pub and the train station 1856 01:42:25.199 --> 01:42:27.920 and a bunch of other places, and we did actually 1857 01:42:28.039 --> 01:42:30.439 have a couple of days with Chris when he was filming, 1858 01:42:31.199 --> 01:42:34.079 and actually you can see me in Radio Remix. There's 1859 01:42:34.119 --> 01:42:39.640 a shot where he shows the pub from nineteen seventy 1860 01:42:39.760 --> 01:42:43.640 nine with someone playing Paul, and then the pub now 1861 01:42:44.239 --> 01:42:46.720 and now being nineteen ninety eight, and you can see 1862 01:42:46.840 --> 01:42:48.760 me about to take a shot on the pull table. 1863 01:42:48.920 --> 01:42:52.399 That's my claim to fame, guys, I mean a shot 1864 01:42:52.479 --> 01:42:56.000 within a shot. And then Chris went ahead and he 1865 01:42:56.199 --> 01:42:58.960 had this kind of prosumer camera I think it might 1866 01:42:58.960 --> 01:43:01.920 have been a sony and he was shooting everything and 1867 01:43:02.039 --> 01:43:05.239 now it seems like very low grade video. And Chris 1868 01:43:05.399 --> 01:43:08.439 was very interested in the technology. He was interested in 1869 01:43:09.239 --> 01:43:13.760 seeing what video can do and layering different images, and 1870 01:43:13.880 --> 01:43:17.520 it became more almost like an installation video, less like 1871 01:43:17.600 --> 01:43:20.520 a conventional documentary, and much more like a kind of 1872 01:43:20.640 --> 01:43:24.840 gallery piece in a sense. So it's quite a challenging 1873 01:43:24.920 --> 01:43:27.640 film to watch, but you do get within it. If 1874 01:43:27.680 --> 01:43:30.600 you focus and look carefully, you can see he does 1875 01:43:30.720 --> 01:43:33.159 do the old locations and the new locations, and he 1876 01:43:33.279 --> 01:43:36.479 does put them together. But the high point of remix 1877 01:43:36.960 --> 01:43:40.359 is the soundtrack because he got Bruce Gilbert from Wire 1878 01:43:41.199 --> 01:43:44.319 proper post punk band who could have been in the 1879 01:43:44.600 --> 01:43:45.199 soundtrack for. 1880 01:43:45.199 --> 01:43:46.520 The original Radio but aren't. 1881 01:43:47.359 --> 01:43:50.439 Bruce Gilbert does this remix and it's almost just like 1882 01:43:50.520 --> 01:43:53.560 with Radio On, the soundtrack is leading the film, and 1883 01:43:53.880 --> 01:43:56.199 I really love what he does with the sound and 1884 01:43:56.279 --> 01:43:59.840 the way that he fuses together loops of David Bow, 1885 01:44:00.000 --> 01:44:04.640 the bits of the video game, samples of dialogue from 1886 01:44:04.680 --> 01:44:09.640 the film, like particular lines pullover and refugee, and then 1887 01:44:09.880 --> 01:44:12.520 highlights them and mixes them and creates this kind of 1888 01:44:12.760 --> 01:44:16.399 ambient flow of the entire thing. So it's quite a 1889 01:44:16.560 --> 01:44:19.760 strange piece, but if you're a fan of Radio On, 1890 01:44:19.840 --> 01:44:20.800 it's pretty essential. 1891 01:44:21.600 --> 01:44:25.199 I ran into where was it? Was it a band camp? 1892 01:44:25.279 --> 01:44:28.479 It was a Radio one remix and it was some 1893 01:44:28.640 --> 01:44:32.279 sort of special It was Bruce Gilbert. I'm pulling it 1894 01:44:32.399 --> 01:44:38.119 up right now. Bruce Gilbert Radio one Remix, Limited edition cassette, 1895 01:44:38.439 --> 01:44:42.520 made to order in maximum edition of fifty copies, available 1896 01:44:42.640 --> 01:44:45.000 for six hundred and sixty six pounds. 1897 01:44:45.920 --> 01:44:48.960 Yes, this is a very interesting company in London that 1898 01:44:49.159 --> 01:44:52.680 does these kind of limited edition art projects. And actually 1899 01:44:52.920 --> 01:44:56.199 I wrote the liner notes, I think for that cassette. 1900 01:44:56.960 --> 01:44:58.600 I think that's how I found it was. I was 1901 01:44:58.680 --> 01:45:01.840 googling you in then this one came up and I 1902 01:45:01.920 --> 01:45:03.399 was like, oh, okay. 1903 01:45:03.840 --> 01:45:06.039 Yeah, that was a couple of years ago, and it 1904 01:45:06.159 --> 01:45:09.159 was a brilliant idea to put out the radio remix 1905 01:45:09.279 --> 01:45:12.079 as a soundtrack, although it was done in a way 1906 01:45:12.159 --> 01:45:15.199 that makes it almost equally as difficult to get hold of. 1907 01:45:16.359 --> 01:45:18.399 Yeah, I'm sorry, but I won't be spending the six 1908 01:45:18.520 --> 01:45:22.479 hundred and sixty six pounds for your essay. I'm sorry 1909 01:45:22.520 --> 01:45:23.039 about that, Ben. 1910 01:45:23.119 --> 01:45:26.159 I'll send you the word document. But while we're on 1911 01:45:26.279 --> 01:45:28.760 the subject of plugging things, I do want to plug 1912 01:45:28.840 --> 01:45:31.600 this book, which is free. You don't have to spend 1913 01:45:31.640 --> 01:45:34.239 six hundred and sixty six pounds on. There is a 1914 01:45:34.319 --> 01:45:36.720 book about radio on written by this guy that I've 1915 01:45:36.760 --> 01:45:39.720 been in contact with called Nick Gilbert, and the book 1916 01:45:39.800 --> 01:45:42.840 is called road Runner. I think the subtitle is a 1917 01:45:42.880 --> 01:45:45.840 book about radio on. And you can get it at 1918 01:45:46.039 --> 01:45:48.880 smash words, which is a sort of self publishing online 1919 01:45:48.920 --> 01:45:53.279 publishing website. If you just register there and give them 1920 01:45:53.319 --> 01:45:58.800 your email address, you can download Roadrunner for free as 1921 01:45:58.840 --> 01:46:01.880 a PDR for however you want to read it. And 1922 01:46:02.079 --> 01:46:05.159 that is one of those books in the style of 1923 01:46:05.800 --> 01:46:09.800 Jeff dya Zoner or Jonathan Leatham's They Live, or Walter 1924 01:46:09.920 --> 01:46:13.359 Chows's book about Miracle Marley where he watches the film, 1925 01:46:13.479 --> 01:46:15.600 describes the film and then goes off on all sorts 1926 01:46:15.640 --> 01:46:19.079 of digressions, some of which touches on pon things we've discussed, 1927 01:46:19.119 --> 01:46:21.840 but also goes off on many other digressions as well. 1928 01:46:22.119 --> 01:46:25.720 And so if you're interested in radio on listeners at 1929 01:46:25.760 --> 01:46:29.520 whatever biscuit factory you're in right now, it's really worth 1930 01:46:29.600 --> 01:46:34.199 a download. And Nick OnEarth some quite interesting things along 1931 01:46:34.239 --> 01:46:35.680 the way and also interviewed Chris. 1932 01:46:36.399 --> 01:46:38.880 I love that it's called road Runner because every time 1933 01:46:38.960 --> 01:46:41.119 I would read the title, I would just keep thinking 1934 01:46:41.800 --> 01:46:44.680 of the Who's Jonathan Donathan Richmond of the Modern Lovers 1935 01:46:44.800 --> 01:46:47.960 Jonathan Richmond, Yeah, and just that whle and the radio on, 1936 01:46:48.239 --> 01:46:51.319 and I just kept thinking of that, and then going 1937 01:46:51.479 --> 01:46:54.039 back to the Sex Pistols. There was a version of that. 1938 01:46:54.239 --> 01:46:59.159 They recorded a version of Roadrunner, and John Lyyden could 1939 01:46:59.239 --> 01:47:02.079 not remember any of the lyrics except for the radio 1940 01:47:02.199 --> 01:47:07.079 on part of it. Very rough, one of those like 1941 01:47:07.920 --> 01:47:12.800 back in the early nineties, no more like late eighties, 1942 01:47:12.840 --> 01:47:14.760 they were putting out all of these like bits and 1943 01:47:14.920 --> 01:47:18.560 bobs of sessions that they had with the Sex Pistols, 1944 01:47:18.600 --> 01:47:20.479 and it was all one producer, I can't remember who 1945 01:47:20.520 --> 01:47:22.800 it was, but they were the rough quality a lot 1946 01:47:22.880 --> 01:47:26.239 of it, but they did have some interesting outtakes like that, 1947 01:47:26.520 --> 01:47:30.800 and of course I think when they did Stepping Stone 1948 01:47:30.920 --> 01:47:35.000 that was like a potentially legit release. But yeah, that 1949 01:47:35.199 --> 01:47:37.560 version of Roadrunner was very rough. 1950 01:47:38.239 --> 01:47:41.119 I think Chris at one point wanted to use Roadrunner 1951 01:47:41.199 --> 01:47:43.720 on the soundtrack but wasn't able to or chose not 1952 01:47:43.800 --> 01:47:44.399 to in the end. 1953 01:47:44.680 --> 01:47:44.880 Yeah. 1954 01:47:44.920 --> 01:47:48.159 The funny thing is in the UK, the title might 1955 01:47:48.279 --> 01:47:52.600 be connected to Radio One, which was the big BBC 1956 01:47:53.039 --> 01:47:56.520 pop station, which would have been the antithesis, apart from 1957 01:47:56.640 --> 01:48:01.279 John Peel of pretty much everything that Robert's character would 1958 01:48:01.279 --> 01:48:03.680 be listening to. Very little of that stuff would get 1959 01:48:03.720 --> 01:48:06.800 played on Radio One. So actually, when I first encountered 1960 01:48:06.960 --> 01:48:09.560 the film, I thought it was a sort of play 1961 01:48:09.720 --> 01:48:12.359 on Radio One. It was like Radio On instead of 1962 01:48:12.479 --> 01:48:15.640 Radio One, and I knew the Jonathan Richmond song. And 1963 01:48:15.760 --> 01:48:18.239 it was only much much later, I think, after I'd 1964 01:48:18.359 --> 01:48:21.000 seen Radio On that I was listening to it and 1965 01:48:21.119 --> 01:48:24.039 I was like, oh, yes, this must be why Chris 1966 01:48:24.199 --> 01:48:27.119 gave it that name, because it's so brilliant. I mean, 1967 01:48:27.199 --> 01:48:30.239 it's just a fantastic track, and of course it's a 1968 01:48:30.279 --> 01:48:31.840 classic driving track. 1969 01:48:32.640 --> 01:48:32.840 Yeah. 1970 01:48:33.000 --> 01:48:36.319 The name of the Nick Gilbert book, just for completion's 1971 01:48:36.319 --> 01:48:39.760 sake is Roadrunner, Radio one, Road Movies and the A 1972 01:48:40.000 --> 01:48:42.840 four and I will definitely put a link to where 1973 01:48:42.880 --> 01:48:45.359 you can get it on smash Words in the show 1974 01:48:45.439 --> 01:48:48.079 notes for this episode because it is really good and 1975 01:48:48.119 --> 01:48:52.079 there's a few good essays written about this movie. I 1976 01:48:52.239 --> 01:48:55.279 know that I found the was it Satan sound? I 1977 01:48:55.319 --> 01:48:59.760 can't remember which review was. Film comment was just in 1978 01:49:00.119 --> 01:49:04.720 valuable to see more of the plot, because, like you, Mark, 1979 01:49:04.760 --> 01:49:07.399 I was finding this a little obscure at times. I'm 1980 01:49:07.439 --> 01:49:09.680 sure Ben, you've seen this many more times than I have, 1981 01:49:09.840 --> 01:49:13.680 and probably get a lot of this more than us Americans, 1982 01:49:14.000 --> 01:49:17.039 especially even when it comes to the landscape, because all 1983 01:49:17.119 --> 01:49:20.039 looks the same a lot of times for me, especially 1984 01:49:20.159 --> 01:49:21.159 being in black and white. 1985 01:49:21.239 --> 01:49:25.119 That was a difficult part, Like I didn't really get 1986 01:49:25.359 --> 01:49:29.920 when he was in London, in Bristol, back in London, 1987 01:49:30.439 --> 01:49:32.039 and I think a lot of it was the black 1988 01:49:32.079 --> 01:49:36.520 and white actually, but it didn't really matter again because 1989 01:49:37.279 --> 01:49:42.880 it's circular in a way anyway. But I don't really 1990 01:49:42.960 --> 01:49:45.720 care what the destination is in road movies for the 1991 01:49:45.800 --> 01:49:50.079 most part, it's the trip. And I know we're way 1992 01:49:50.199 --> 01:49:52.560 past this, but I just had to mention that shot again. 1993 01:49:53.119 --> 01:49:56.560 The iconic shot going on the well I'm going to 1994 01:49:56.600 --> 01:49:59.560 say freeway here, which is the incorrect term, but past 1995 01:50:00.520 --> 01:50:04.960 when both Robert and I forget what her name in 1996 01:50:05.079 --> 01:50:08.720 the separate windows. Loved that shot, but it just made 1997 01:50:08.760 --> 01:50:11.000 me think of since we're talking about road movies and 1998 01:50:11.039 --> 01:50:14.760 I'm looking at a road movie, is it's obviously someone 1999 01:50:14.840 --> 01:50:18.880 in a car and they're very possibly on their own 2000 01:50:19.039 --> 01:50:22.840 road movie trip right now. They're traveling somewhere, maybe they're 2001 01:50:22.880 --> 01:50:27.079 headed back to London or some other point. And I 2002 01:50:27.199 --> 01:50:31.399 thought it just struck me as odd because I oftentimes 2003 01:50:31.479 --> 01:50:34.079 when I am driving by myself, look at the people 2004 01:50:34.319 --> 01:50:38.319 in the other cars and wonder what are they doing, 2005 01:50:39.039 --> 01:50:43.000 what is their destination? And even sometimes think what are 2006 01:50:43.079 --> 01:50:46.800 they thinking right now as we're passing this same scenery 2007 01:50:46.880 --> 01:50:47.279 and stuff? 2008 01:50:47.359 --> 01:50:48.840 What the music is on in their car? 2009 01:50:49.159 --> 01:50:53.760 So that I think that shot was poignant in a 2010 01:50:53.800 --> 01:50:56.520 lot of ways for me, and it just really stuck out. 2011 01:50:57.479 --> 01:50:59.560 I pause it and rewound it a couple of times 2012 01:50:59.640 --> 01:51:03.199 just to watch over again, and I don't know, I 2013 01:51:03.239 --> 01:51:05.880 can't really explain why, but it just it felt like 2014 01:51:05.960 --> 01:51:07.640 an important moment in the film. 2015 01:51:08.439 --> 01:51:11.920 Yeah, Partly it's because there's again it's that alienation. They're 2016 01:51:11.960 --> 01:51:15.920 both in separate windows, and actually it occurs to me 2017 01:51:16.079 --> 01:51:18.000 that in order to get that shot, I actually think 2018 01:51:18.039 --> 01:51:21.159 they're in separate rooms. So within the story they're meant 2019 01:51:21.159 --> 01:51:23.319 to be in the same room. I think that hotel 2020 01:51:23.399 --> 01:51:26.279 has got very small rooms and there's one window per room, 2021 01:51:26.600 --> 01:51:29.399 and actually they must have positioned them into separate rooms. 2022 01:51:29.479 --> 01:51:31.600 I might be wrong about that, but there is that 2023 01:51:31.840 --> 01:51:35.079 feeling of there together, but they're not together. And then 2024 01:51:35.199 --> 01:51:37.479 we're in the point of view, this mysterious point of 2025 01:51:37.560 --> 01:51:40.680 view of somebody in a car driving the route that 2026 01:51:40.800 --> 01:51:43.680 they've previously taken, so there's the sort of ghosting of 2027 01:51:43.720 --> 01:51:46.159 their route at the same time. The other shot that 2028 01:51:46.199 --> 01:51:49.920 I think is really iconic is the white when Robert's 2029 01:51:49.960 --> 01:51:52.720 still in London, and you get that long of the landscape, 2030 01:51:52.760 --> 01:51:55.319 the car goes through it, then you get the long 2031 01:51:55.399 --> 01:51:58.159 shot of the landscape and I think it's Bowie on 2032 01:51:58.239 --> 01:52:02.479 the soundtrack at that point, and then the train comes 2033 01:52:02.560 --> 01:52:04.840 in from the side of the frame, and then it 2034 01:52:05.000 --> 01:52:08.239 wipes and then we see the plane coming in towards 2035 01:52:08.279 --> 01:52:10.640 he Throw airport and we're back on the road again. 2036 01:52:11.039 --> 01:52:14.920 And that is in the cinema. That is a breathtaking shot. 2037 01:52:15.600 --> 01:52:17.319 I'm trying to remember who it was. I was talking 2038 01:52:17.319 --> 01:52:20.159 about the whole idea of Aerosynthanatos when it comes to 2039 01:52:20.239 --> 01:52:23.880 this movie, and the idea that we start with the 2040 01:52:23.960 --> 01:52:27.640 death of his brother, and it feels like that death 2041 01:52:27.840 --> 01:52:32.119 drive no pun intended, the death drive in Robert Bee 2042 01:52:32.479 --> 01:52:35.520 might be there as well, because it feels like he's 2043 01:52:35.520 --> 01:52:37.479 going to commit suicide at the end of this movie, 2044 01:52:37.560 --> 01:52:38.960 at least for me. When he pulls up to the 2045 01:52:39.079 --> 01:52:41.680 edge of the quarry, he's so close to the edge 2046 01:52:42.119 --> 01:52:45.760 and he's got the music blaring, and he just is 2047 01:52:45.840 --> 01:52:47.720 he just going to drive right off of here? Is 2048 01:52:47.720 --> 01:52:49.159 he going to put And then when he gets out 2049 01:52:49.199 --> 01:52:51.199 of the car, is he going to push the car over? 2050 01:52:51.720 --> 01:52:55.439 But instead he just abandons the car and we don't 2051 01:52:55.640 --> 01:52:58.640 get the journey home. We just get him waiting for 2052 01:52:58.760 --> 01:53:03.000 a train. I don't necessarily see like him back in London. Hey, 2053 01:53:03.119 --> 01:53:04.000 everything's great. 2054 01:53:04.239 --> 01:53:06.680 We're just checking in back at the biscuit Factory. 2055 01:53:07.720 --> 01:53:12.199 Yeah, exactly, I'm back boys, And here's a special request 2056 01:53:12.319 --> 01:53:16.039 for you. Yeah, here's some more Ian durry in the blockheads. Yeah, 2057 01:53:16.800 --> 01:53:18.720 I love. That's always the thing when it comes to 2058 01:53:18.840 --> 01:53:21.560 road movies like how do we end? Do we end 2059 01:53:21.600 --> 01:53:23.279 with them still on the road, Do they get to 2060 01:53:23.359 --> 01:53:26.520 their destination? Doesn't matter if they get to their destination. 2061 01:53:26.720 --> 01:53:30.000 Do they fail completely? Mark? You and I just talked 2062 01:53:30.000 --> 01:53:34.239 about a classic road movie recently, Vacation, and just how 2063 01:53:34.319 --> 01:53:37.680 that turns to absolute shit at the end with him 2064 01:53:37.680 --> 01:53:40.760 almost getting arrested. We end that kind of the same 2065 01:53:40.800 --> 01:53:42.920 way with just them on the plane. We don't get 2066 01:53:42.960 --> 01:53:46.800 them back in Chicago, and here he's waiting for that train, 2067 01:53:47.000 --> 01:53:49.279 and he's going to take that train back, which might 2068 01:53:49.319 --> 01:53:51.319 have been the smart way of traveling anyway. And you 2069 01:53:51.359 --> 01:53:55.399 guys have such great public transportation in them, why would 2070 01:53:55.439 --> 01:53:55.880 you really? 2071 01:53:56.199 --> 01:53:56.239 No? 2072 01:53:56.600 --> 01:53:57.399 No, is it all gone. 2073 01:53:58.199 --> 01:53:59.960 One of the things that would happen when that check 2074 01:54:00.039 --> 01:54:02.199 came into power, of course, is the privatization of the 2075 01:54:02.279 --> 01:54:06.640 rail network, and it's gone down ill ever since. But yes, no, 2076 01:54:06.840 --> 01:54:09.279 it is significant that he chooses the change of mode 2077 01:54:09.319 --> 01:54:10.479 of transport at that point. 2078 01:54:10.560 --> 01:54:14.680 Yeah. I've only been in England twice and at least 2079 01:54:14.720 --> 01:54:16.960 one of those times there was a rail strike, so 2080 01:54:17.760 --> 01:54:18.800 everything was delayed. 2081 01:54:20.399 --> 01:54:25.039 That happens frequently. Yes, Well another thing, Yeah, you were 2082 01:54:25.079 --> 01:54:27.840 pointing out about the suicide and almost the sense that 2083 01:54:27.880 --> 01:54:29.560 he's going to kill himself in the quarry, is going 2084 01:54:29.640 --> 01:54:31.239 to get drunk. There's a lot of drink driving in 2085 01:54:31.279 --> 01:54:35.319 the film. We should also mention it has a pine 2086 01:54:35.399 --> 01:54:37.359 and then takes the hitchhiker, etc. 2087 01:54:37.800 --> 01:54:41.600 But I think he cracks open a beer in the 2088 01:54:41.680 --> 01:54:42.760 car itself right. 2089 01:54:43.520 --> 01:54:46.399 In this one, he's throwing back the beers. Earlier in 2090 01:54:46.479 --> 01:54:49.039 Western super Mare, he's drinking from a bottler spirits. At 2091 01:54:49.079 --> 01:54:51.319 least he gets her to drive him back to Bristol. 2092 01:54:52.119 --> 01:54:57.279 But yes, the narrative construction again, Chris is saying, Okay, 2093 01:54:57.319 --> 01:54:59.760 I'm not that interesting story in narrative, but he really 2094 01:54:59.800 --> 01:55:02.399 does set it up quite neatly, that notion of not 2095 01:55:02.520 --> 01:55:05.800 being able to start the car, that once he's driven 2096 01:55:05.880 --> 01:55:08.359 to the edge, he can't go round the front to 2097 01:55:08.520 --> 01:55:11.880 crank it up with that tool anymore, and he even 2098 01:55:12.199 --> 01:55:14.560 tries to pull it back. He tries to release the 2099 01:55:14.600 --> 01:55:16.880 brakes and pull it back and it goes forward even more, 2100 01:55:17.239 --> 01:55:20.680 which weirdly reminds me now of the Italian Job. The 2101 01:55:20.800 --> 01:55:22.840 end of the Italian Job with the bus on that 2102 01:55:23.279 --> 01:55:26.760 when it keeps going forward, it keeps creeping forward. And 2103 01:55:26.920 --> 01:55:30.159 so it's set up really smartly that this is the 2104 01:55:30.279 --> 01:55:32.800 end of the road for him, and there's no way 2105 01:55:32.880 --> 01:55:34.600 he can start that car anymore, so he has to 2106 01:55:34.680 --> 01:55:38.520 abandon it. And again more construction. It refers back to 2107 01:55:38.600 --> 01:55:40.680 the first time we see him. He's in the car. 2108 01:55:41.079 --> 01:55:43.920 He puts on the craft Work tape and he stops, 2109 01:55:44.359 --> 01:55:47.079 thinks for a bit, puts it back on, and then 2110 01:55:47.239 --> 01:55:49.720 leaves it playing as he goes out to the laundromat. 2111 01:55:50.359 --> 01:55:54.279 Here he leaves it playing and abandons it forever, right, 2112 01:55:54.560 --> 01:55:56.800 And then we get the music playing, and actually the 2113 01:55:56.960 --> 01:56:00.359 music that craft Work track builds and builds. It gets 2114 01:56:00.479 --> 01:56:03.640 faster and faster, and it's actually a hopeful song. There's 2115 01:56:03.680 --> 01:56:07.279 a real feeling of joy and excitement at the end 2116 01:56:07.319 --> 01:56:11.600 of the film. Weirdly enough, even though nothing narratively seems 2117 01:56:11.600 --> 01:56:14.760 to have been resolved, there is a sense of a 2118 01:56:14.840 --> 01:56:16.800 weird sense of hope at the end of the film. 2119 01:56:17.479 --> 01:56:21.520 I did want to mention the radio on remix. I 2120 01:56:21.720 --> 01:56:26.520 found quite enjoyable because I think the oh, we're back 2121 01:56:26.600 --> 01:56:31.439 at this spot where Ben gets knocked off the stool 2122 01:56:31.600 --> 01:56:34.960 in the bar and here we are at the GT 2123 01:56:35.680 --> 01:56:39.199 gas station where Sting plays the guitar would have been 2124 01:56:39.239 --> 01:56:43.239 really boring. I enjoyed that, and it actually again reminded 2125 01:56:43.279 --> 01:56:45.279 me of things that I watched when I was in 2126 01:56:45.439 --> 01:56:50.479 London and saw pieces like that in art installations and 2127 01:56:50.840 --> 01:56:52.880 other stuff that was on TV, and going to the 2128 01:56:52.960 --> 01:56:57.000 wonderful repertory cinemas there and seeing all kinds of crazy movies. 2129 01:56:57.119 --> 01:57:00.960 So I enjoyed it quite a bit. Oh, excellent, that's 2130 01:57:01.000 --> 01:57:01.439 good to hear. 2131 01:57:02.199 --> 01:57:05.399 Yeah, I thought it was very well done, and yeah, 2132 01:57:05.439 --> 01:57:07.680 it does feel very much like an installation piece. That's 2133 01:57:07.720 --> 01:57:09.520 a perfect way to put it, just with the way 2134 01:57:09.600 --> 01:57:12.600 that it's put together. There's one moment where it's just like, 2135 01:57:12.720 --> 01:57:16.960 how was this shot? What was the actual means of 2136 01:57:17.119 --> 01:57:19.840 putting this together? There was one shot where I was 2137 01:57:20.199 --> 01:57:23.039 reminded of do you remember the old Fisher Price pixel 2138 01:57:23.119 --> 01:57:27.520 cams that were recorded on cassettes, which is an interesting 2139 01:57:27.960 --> 01:57:30.520 going back to the cassette thing too, So I was like, oh, 2140 01:57:31.680 --> 01:57:33.399 I know that things have been shot in that, and 2141 01:57:33.479 --> 01:57:35.439 I was almost curious if that was being used, but 2142 01:57:35.520 --> 01:57:36.319 of course it wasn't. 2143 01:57:36.760 --> 01:57:38.920 No, But there's a lot of refilming. There's a lot 2144 01:57:38.960 --> 01:57:41.800 of playing things back on a TV and then refilming 2145 01:57:41.880 --> 01:57:45.680 them on the sony camera and then refilming them again. 2146 01:57:45.800 --> 01:57:48.039 So that they lose generations and they get more and 2147 01:57:48.119 --> 01:57:48.920 more distorted. 2148 01:57:49.720 --> 01:57:52.119 It was hypnotic, the whole thing, with the music and 2149 01:57:52.239 --> 01:57:54.000 the oh yeah, that was fun. 2150 01:57:54.600 --> 01:57:56.479 All right, guys, let's go ahead and take another break, 2151 01:57:56.560 --> 01:57:58.479 and I want to play preview for next week's show 2152 01:57:58.640 --> 01:58:00.119 right after these brief mess. 2153 01:58:08.319 --> 01:58:11.640 It was a sensation at the Cannes Film Festival, winning 2154 01:58:11.720 --> 01:58:18.479 Best Actor and Best Director awards. At the Toronto Film Festival, 2155 01:58:18.720 --> 01:58:23.199 it won the Critics Prize from acclaimed director Mike Lee, 2156 01:58:23.760 --> 01:58:26.479 the creator of High Hopes and Life Is Sweet. 2157 01:58:27.479 --> 01:58:29.119 A different kind of movie. 2158 01:58:32.159 --> 01:58:34.920 That is a proper relationship. 2159 01:58:35.760 --> 01:58:38.479 Living with someone who talks to you after they've bunked you. 2160 01:58:43.319 --> 01:58:45.520 Are they both the same size or as one bigger 2161 01:58:45.560 --> 01:58:46.000 than the other? 2162 01:58:52.880 --> 01:58:53.840 You look like my mother? 2163 01:58:56.800 --> 01:58:56.920 Was you? 2164 01:58:57.159 --> 01:58:57.920 Or too payful? 2165 01:59:01.399 --> 01:59:01.840 It's good. 2166 01:59:16.000 --> 01:59:18.319 Naked a new film by Mike Lee. 2167 01:59:24.239 --> 01:59:27.079 That's right. We'll be back next week with another British film. 2168 01:59:27.119 --> 01:59:29.760 We're talking about Mike Lee's Naked. Until then, I want 2169 01:59:29.840 --> 01:59:31.880 to thank my co hosts Ben and Mark. So, Mark, 2170 01:59:31.920 --> 01:59:33.079 what's been going on with you, sir? 2171 01:59:33.399 --> 01:59:33.640 Well? 2172 01:59:34.199 --> 01:59:39.319 I've got two monthly shows right now. My nostalgia show 2173 01:59:39.399 --> 01:59:42.159 Cambrid Jim Mashawn comes out every first Tuesday of the month, 2174 01:59:42.319 --> 01:59:46.600 and you Chris and I have our Chasing Chevy Chase 2175 01:59:46.720 --> 01:59:49.920 podcast that comes out I believe the last Wednesday of 2176 01:59:50.000 --> 01:59:54.079 earvery month, and Wake Up Heavy is on another hiatus 2177 01:59:54.239 --> 01:59:57.319 currently until I figure out something to record. But you 2178 01:59:57.399 --> 01:59:59.760 can find all of those shows over on where you 2179 02:00:00.159 --> 02:00:00.960 Media dot com. 2180 02:00:01.520 --> 02:00:02.239 And Ben, how about you? 2181 02:00:02.319 --> 02:00:04.199 What if you're bending up to Well, I thought I 2182 02:00:04.319 --> 02:00:06.960 had absolutely nothing to say as usual, apart from you 2183 02:00:07.039 --> 02:00:09.720 could still probably try and buy my book about Saint Jack, 2184 02:00:09.840 --> 02:00:11.880 which is called kind of Hot, and you can email me, 2185 02:00:12.600 --> 02:00:14.760 although I am running low on copies, so if anyone 2186 02:00:14.800 --> 02:00:16.880 wants to republish it, please let me know. But I 2187 02:00:17.000 --> 02:00:20.079 actually do have a plug, which is that since I 2188 02:00:20.199 --> 02:00:23.279 last spoke to you, Mike, I wrote our co Wrote 2189 02:00:23.359 --> 02:00:27.960 Rather a TV series that was put out in Singapore 2190 02:00:28.239 --> 02:00:31.880 for Singapore Television and you can watch it on YouTube. 2191 02:00:32.640 --> 02:00:35.399 This company, the local company that broadcasts it. They put 2192 02:00:35.439 --> 02:00:37.159 it out on any platform they could put it out on, 2193 02:00:37.520 --> 02:00:42.000 including YouTube. So if you are curious, it's a murder 2194 02:00:42.119 --> 02:00:46.680 mystery and it's called Come Closer. So if you go 2195 02:00:46.840 --> 02:00:50.439 into YouTube and you look up Come Closer Singapore TV, 2196 02:00:51.239 --> 02:00:53.760 you should find it. There's five episodes, they're all up 2197 02:00:53.800 --> 02:00:56.840 on YouTube. Now here's the fun part. There is a 2198 02:00:57.039 --> 02:01:01.000 reference to Radio One in one of the episodes. There's 2199 02:01:01.039 --> 02:01:05.039 a piece of dialogue that refers to something that Chris 2200 02:01:05.119 --> 02:01:08.199 has talked about many times in relation to Radio On. 2201 02:01:08.560 --> 02:01:10.680 So anyone who knows Radio On, who's listened to this 2202 02:01:10.840 --> 02:01:14.720 podcast will pick up on the reference. So if anybody 2203 02:01:15.119 --> 02:01:18.560 can find it, email me that you've spotted the Radio 2204 02:01:18.600 --> 02:01:21.760 On reference in one episode of Come Closer. I will 2205 02:01:21.920 --> 02:01:27.000 send you something. So it's a little competition. Oh and 2206 02:01:27.399 --> 02:01:28.960 try to inspire people to watch it. 2207 02:01:29.720 --> 02:01:33.079 One more thing, Mike, I believe Radio On is also 2208 02:01:33.239 --> 02:01:40.119 on the Criterion Channel currently, so people maybe can't afford 2209 02:01:40.159 --> 02:01:42.880 the Blu ray or something, you have a way to 2210 02:01:42.960 --> 02:01:43.279 watch it. 2211 02:01:44.039 --> 02:01:44.960 I believe it's there. 2212 02:01:45.760 --> 02:01:47.359 Ben, What are we talking about next year? 2213 02:01:48.119 --> 02:01:48.279 Oh? 2214 02:01:48.640 --> 02:01:50.600 Well, I think you haven't done anything to do with 2215 02:01:50.680 --> 02:01:51.399 Peter Whitehead. 2216 02:01:51.439 --> 02:01:52.560 Have you mind that yet? Now? 2217 02:01:53.319 --> 02:01:56.039 Well, let's have a conversation about Peter Whitehead, because I 2218 02:01:56.079 --> 02:01:59.199 think he would be an interesting subject for a Projection 2219 02:01:59.319 --> 02:01:59.960 Booth episode. 2220 02:02:00.600 --> 02:02:03.199 I am pretty sure I know some of his work. 2221 02:02:03.399 --> 02:02:06.159 I'm trying to remember what because he worked with Nicky 2222 02:02:06.479 --> 02:02:11.359 Descent Fall, correct, didn't he have something to do with Daddy. 2223 02:02:12.159 --> 02:02:13.199 He directed Daddy. 2224 02:02:13.239 --> 02:02:15.239 Although I don't think I want to spend it into 2225 02:02:15.279 --> 02:02:16.479 my podcast on Daddy. 2226 02:02:17.119 --> 02:02:19.880 Oh that would be fun boy. Would we feel bad 2227 02:02:19.960 --> 02:02:20.319 after that? 2228 02:02:20.399 --> 02:02:20.840 Wouldn't we? 2229 02:02:20.960 --> 02:02:23.319 There we'll email, We'll talk about some ideas. 2230 02:02:23.399 --> 02:02:26.079 Yeah, sounds good. Thank you so much guys for being 2231 02:02:26.159 --> 02:02:28.479 on the show. Thanks everybody for listening. If you want 2232 02:02:28.479 --> 02:02:30.239 to hear more of me shooting off my mouth, check 2233 02:02:30.279 --> 02:02:31.720 out some of the other shows that I work on. 2234 02:02:32.279 --> 02:02:35.399 Just like Mark said, they're all available at weirdingwaymedia dot com. 2235 02:02:35.800 --> 02:02:38.079 Thanks especially to our Patreon community. If you want to 2236 02:02:38.159 --> 02:02:41.359 join the community, visit patreon dot com slash Projection Booth. 2237 02:02:41.720 --> 02:02:44.680 Every donation we get helps the Projection Booth take over 2238 02:02:44.760 --> 02:02:45.119 the world. 2239 02:02:50.840 --> 02:03:04.840 One girl in the wild boy, ye, but she probably 2240 02:03:05.119 --> 02:03:09.760 lives since I hate it, I call the whole one well, 2241 02:03:10.079 --> 02:03:19.640 I call the whole one man just a mine. Well, 2242 02:03:19.760 --> 02:03:24.039 maybe she's in about homes where. 2243 02:03:23.920 --> 02:03:26.359 The carabeans is true. 2244 02:03:28.600 --> 02:03:30.520 We've been in a trumping. 2245 02:03:30.119 --> 02:03:35.279 To come on lady night because nobody's told about you. 2246 02:03:36.680 --> 02:03:40.840 I call the will I follow wild world. 2247 02:03:43.359 --> 02:03:44.760 I thought the whole world. 2248 02:03:44.960 --> 02:03:48.239 We thought the whole world was fine. 2249 02:03:48.359 --> 02:03:49.800 Not where they hide. 2250 02:03:51.159 --> 02:03:54.720 I thought the whole wild well, I thought, the whole world. 2251 02:03:55.000 --> 02:03:56.720 Well, it's a fine. 2252 02:04:06.920 --> 02:04:09.720 Am I in around in the rain. 2253 02:04:11.720 --> 02:04:17.039 Trying to fake up a gill fore my eyes swelling 2254 02:04:17.319 --> 02:04:19.960 up with this horn tails with. 2255 02:04:20.239 --> 02:04:22.800 This girl w the world. 2256 02:04:24.159 --> 02:04:29.399 I should ian on a trumping the bit somewhel on 2257 02:04:29.680 --> 02:04:30.279 the name. 2258 02:04:30.199 --> 02:04:31.840 The trumping the sun. 2259 02:04:33.760 --> 02:04:38.840 Finding a way in a hayway fan open. 2260 02:04:38.720 --> 02:04:40.039 But I woman a. 2261 02:04:41.760 --> 02:04:45.479 As youre been. I am on my sons, bitch when. 2262 02:04:46.760 --> 02:04:54.119 Dressing the whole brid scanda in a year holiday. 2263 02:04:53.479 --> 02:04:57.680 Even I'm quite will be sharing the same mist. 2264 02:04:57.640 --> 02:05:10.279 Fan, I'm gonna, oh, I don't know line well. 2265 02:05:15.199 --> 02:05:17.920 Well well. 2266 02:05:23.399 --> 02:05:28.119 Little yeah. 2267 02:05:38.239 --> 02:05:40.560 One churns right from five zer. 2268 02:05:42.439 --> 02:05:48.720 R d brother, go fast about an hour, go and 2269 02:05:48.880 --> 02:05:55.239 try faster, stop and shop with the radio on droppings 2270 02:05:55.279 --> 02:05:59.920 over with Massachusets have to be on what it's called outside. 2271 02:06:01.239 --> 02:06:05.279 That's the highway to late night. That the radio. 2272 02:06:06.600 --> 02:06:21.760 I'm like, all right, happen love with about a good 2273 02:06:21.840 --> 02:06:25.479 line on what he ate when it's starting out time. 2274 02:06:26.640 --> 02:06:30.880 I'm in love with Massachusetts. I'm in love with the 2275 02:06:31.119 --> 02:06:33.680 radio that helped me from. 2276 02:06:33.600 --> 02:06:37.479 Being alone late at night, helped me from being lonely 2277 02:06:37.600 --> 02:06:41.239 lay night. I don't feel so bad now in the car. 2278 02:06:42.399 --> 02:06:59.119 Don't feel so long that the radio like that spirit 2279 02:06:59.119 --> 02:06:59.640 of Zee. 2280 02:07:00.199 --> 02:07:04.920 Just six picture the bushes, Nick, the fifty seven, your highways, 2281 02:07:04.960 --> 02:07:06.840 your good for next week, go back way. 2282 02:07:06.840 --> 02:07:09.000 It's the burbon trees urban speed at it. 2283 02:07:09.359 --> 02:07:13.520 So that's like when I say road, blood, road, or twice. 2284 02:07:13.960 --> 02:07:14.640 I'm in love with. 2285 02:07:14.760 --> 02:07:17.239 Rock and roll, that I'll be out on that role. 2286 02:07:18.920 --> 02:07:19.439 That's why. 2287 02:07:28.359 --> 02:08:19.039 Oh well, now that's the boss it all. 2288 02:08:20.680 --> 02:08:25.279 Gotta dropt the stop shop with the radio on a 2289 02:08:25.439 --> 02:08:28.279 die and be in love with mon. 2290 02:08:30.199 --> 02:08:33.520 Be in love with WoT a rock and roll bot 2291 02:08:33.680 --> 02:08:37.720 nose a bott a rock and roll, no deels alone, Get. 2292 02:08:37.600 --> 02:08:39.479 The radio off the roller. 2293 02:08:39.880 --> 02:08:41.720 Okay, how you say botto loveday? 2294 02:08:43.359 --> 02:08:43.880 I got. 2295 02:08:46.000 --> 02:08:56.199 That's got cut the rock bart, I got the cop 2296 02:08:56.359 --> 02:08:57.600 Massachusetts got up. 2297 02:08:57.800 --> 02:09:00.359 I got the powder, Massachusetts waters lay a. 2298 02:09:00.439 --> 02:09:00.840 Night of it. 2299 02:09:01.079 --> 02:09:05.119 I got what sounds about the Massachusetts I s I 2300 02:09:05.239 --> 02:09:08.720 got the ball, got the chuck I got I got 2301 02:09:08.760 --> 02:09:09.640 the ball, not the. 2302 02:09:11.720 --> 02:09:16.479 Little while roll and I look back to the other side, 2303 02:09:16.520 --> 02:09:18.800 the cut on the town. 2304 02:09:21.800 --> 02:09:22.920 All right. 2305 02:09:33.159 --> 02:10:01.359 By why by spare nothing. 2306 02:10:04.319 --> 02:10:05.640 You take you nine. 2307 02:10:08.039 --> 02:10:09.479 Go fe Nte too. 2308 02:10:16.520 --> 02:10:18.399 Gets in Spain and shan sir. 2309 02:10:20.880 --> 02:10:31.079 Doctors he gun forever and us in that heaven. 2310 02:10:33.880 --> 02:10:35.279 Sure, I mean time. 2311 02:11:00.039 --> 02:11:01.199 I'm not better. 2312 02:11:04.479 --> 02:11:05.359 To do uh. 2313 02:11:07.920 --> 02:11:34.119 Do coding a side side out in time, I'm do you. 2314 02:11:34.239 --> 02:11:51.399 Sometimes nothing joying by to joy by Jemmy. Welcome back 2315 02:11:51.520 --> 02:11:56.479 out so good, said Sid. 2316 02:11:58.920 --> 02:12:07.520 Why some day write something in old time, cos that's 2317 02:12:07.560 --> 02:12:08.880 I be saved? 2318 02:12:10.159 --> 02:12:21.800 Dishes s O the coon s. 2319 02:12:25.560 --> 02:13:02.920 Sun, donci donc M. Dons have that doncent you gotta 2320 02:13:03.079 --> 02:13:08.640 some time sometime, said they have done. 2321 02:13:17.840 --> 02:13:17.880 H